career-advice

[buoyant bloom]

YEAHHH

can you perhaps tell me how you got to that point? id appreciate it lots

[inner hemlock]

I've been coding about 18 years, since I was about 13. After college I worked as an engineer at Nextdoor for 5.5 years, then Coinbase for 5 years. They reached out to me on linkedin. I just code and build a lot of things, all the time.

[buoyant bloom]

have you done any machine learning projects to start out?

[inner hemlock]

Though I know a lot about machine learning, I don't have direct experience in that, the role I'm going for is more of a typical backend engineer.

[buoyant bloom]

ohh i see

[buoyant bloom]

do you have any recommended projects for a beginner?

[inner hemlock]

For general software engineering?

[buoyant bloom]

that or machine learning, anything really. I need to get my hands dirty with projects but I don't know where to start

[inner hemlock]

What always worked for me was pick a topic I'm interesting in building something for, and then doing something really ambitious, outside of what I really have any idea of how to do. Figure it out as you go. It'd take longer, of course, but you learn a lot on that journey.

Pick something you're passionate about and build something cool 😎

[buoyant bloom]

It's hard to find a starting spot for me. I already have a goal in mind but there's a ton that I have to do prior to actually coding anything

[inner hemlock]

Well, break it down! You've gotta start somewhere. Ideally, a project should be mostly-coding, especially when you're beginning. If that's not the case, maybe pick something else.

[buoyant bloom]

convolutional neural networks 😭

[inner hemlock]

Ah, for that, I'd recommend the freely available Stanford course, CS231n: Convolutional Neural Networks for Visual Recognition.

[buoyant bloom]

is a good understanding of calculus and linear algebra a prerequisite?

[inner hemlock]

I wouldn't say so, you can pick it up as you go, research anything you don't understand until you do!

[buoyant bloom]

ill do that. how big of an impact do you think not understanding the math will have on me

[inner hemlock]

Not much, I'm terrible at math and was able to follow along.

[buoyant bloom]

okie dokie. thanks!

[smoky quest]

depends on the complexity and depth of the tasks you are trying to tackle.
But if you are just starting out, then it won't matter

[buoyant bloom]

love yall

[smoky quest]

We don't do ads on this server

[unkempt geode]

Removed. Thank you.

[young tulip]

Hey guys uh, what is a good "independent" Job in IT

my dad always told me to not become a worker but I need to get an "independent job" In IT

I think what he meant is making my own website and selling them or developing them??

and he's right I think, rn Indonesia lacks jobs

that means I'm absolutely fucked if I'm an employee because of frequent laid offs and lack of hiring companies

[brittle pendant]

do you have any skills in IT atm or are you asking for what to learn so that you can become a contractor in the future?

[young tulip]

yeah Indonesia don't have that type of stuffs so

[toxic hill]

Is this like general chat

[young tulip]

Worker protection doesn't exist

and people say the biggest loss is dealing with taxes and medical taxes thing, well uh Indonesia laws said that the one who paid must do the taxes no exception

Aight

well I think in fact local offering is pretty high because of education and demand

undeveloped, low education, and full of illiterate people is a gold mine to people who has high skills

[twilit portal]

^I would also like to know about this

[young tulip]

Oh shit fr? That's like mid above class here for exchange rate

ight

Oh shit I found a gold mine, the most needed job rn in Indonesia is software engineer

second is AI engineer,

No like, the demand here is crazy, the government keeps pumping out new and new apps every month

it's so much that the populance starts getting annoyed, because they keeps making app for useless shit

even buying gas needs an app

Small features, it's like minor apps but the pay is decent

Goverment wanna be "tech pro" Thingmanij so they keep making apps for flexing ig

The money would've been corrupted before they make it, dw

Okay so I think I'm gonna learn software engineering, freelance for either goverment or make my own website

aight

in fact that's my plan lol, I'm escaping this shit hole when I'm in college

My neighbor is an IT freelance, he freelance at Bank companies and uh, he got a home 2 nice vehicle

and like 4 cats

yeah, but not US the tuition is crazy

I'm going to UK, and that's if they are stable in the next 6 years

[hearty island]

Morning guys!

My friend from Ukraine who goes to Hofstra and works at JPMC now was discussing that with me

[young tulip]

I hope that I can get like that free college program or whatever they are called in english

[hearty island]

how do you deal with a coworker you don’t get along with? My coworker is from the military and his style of communication is different. For example, he’ll send screenshots of my own messages instead of giving me direct answers. He’ll send me google searches when I ask for help when I’ve already done the exact search and due diligence. He’ll say it’s “my project” when he’s literally a resource to help me

[young tulip]

tell him to change his way of thinking from "my" To "our"

[hearty island]

I can’t, he’s the data engineer on the team. Couple days ago during an agile session he said “I taught Damian how to google”

[young tulip]

Try to confront him.

maybe he's a nice guy but military ruined his ass

[hearty island]

another day we were just chilling and he said to the coworker “amount of coffee depends on how many questions Damian asks me”

[young tulip]

Oof, good luck with life with that one...

[young tulip]

ignore what he says, work place is tough..

[hearty island]

he’s ruining my reputation around the workplace and I don’t like to deal with it but it’s festering

[young tulip]

My dad said that workplace is going to be a pain in the ass and people will want to bring you down, what you do is ignore him and pray to god his ass will get fired or something

[hearty island]

My guess is? He’s not used to corporate America. You can’t talk to people like that

[young tulip]

yeah, people like that are radioactive

[hearty island]

Yea exactly. Especially because I’m leaving very soon.

[young tulip]

do not spill the barrel, let it rot and flee.

[hearty island]

it’ll make him look awful in the end fr. Alr I’m not worried then

thanks guys

I did well this internship I tried my best with what I had.

[junior hornet]

Try talking with him. Try to enforce that it brings you doubt and brings your performance doubt. If that fails, talk to a manager and see if the situation can be mediated through that manager. If that fails bring it up to HR. If that fails as well, I guess that company really doesn't like to bring a quality product. Just my two cents, I know it's though, hang in there Damian.

[young tulip]

crying in the bathroom is the best coping mechanism for me

[hearty island]

He was like I’m shocked that your internships haven’t taught you the fundamentals. Just bc you’ve had 6 internships doesn’t mean you know anything and I was like yes “Steve” but I’m trying my best

[young tulip]

intership tought you something?

[hearty island]

yea we’re doing like data modeling and star schemas across business systems essentially?

[young tulip]

Damn didn't knew that

[young tulip]

fair enough

[hearty island]

and I haven’t done data modeling and stuff like that, I’ve created very pretty dashboards off one single spreadsheet. So I’m trying my best

I don’t know, being angry at an intern is a bad sign of a competent coworker if you ask me

[young tulip]

thats like being angry to a 4 years old because they don't know how to pronounce phobia of long words

[hearty island]

He’s one of the main reasons why i no longer want to stay on the team and pursued a FTE role, besides budget issues

[brittle pendant]

doesnt your hr have anonymous ways to tip off for bs like this

[hearty island]

that’s the thing, HR isn’t going to be my friend

he’s far too valuable of a stakeholder to fuck with essentially.

[brittle pendant]

rip ive been in similar and yea you guys arent wrong

obnoxious boomers are a dime a dozen plus he probs think its good old military days and he's 'hazing' the rookie

idk why i assumed he's a boomer lol

[hearty island]

Look I always try to get along with teammates. I’m genuinely chill. So the fact that this is so bad makes me upset

[junior hornet]

It's good that you're leaving. On to greener pastures.

[young tulip]

I bet 5 bucks he is that one dude in the military who is so serious and never crack gay jokes with the teammates

[hearty island]

on to greener pastures fr, pay is insanely good, 5 minutes from home

[brittle pendant]

i wouldnt take it personally some people have no self awareness

like theres this guy i know who thinks he such a helpful mentor but most everyone thinks he's obnoxious asf

[young tulip]

@hearty island I bet 5 bucks that he was a Seargant or a Coporal, he probably got that attitude from his rank

[hearty island]

dude, are we in the same situation? That’s exactly what my guy thinks

[brittle pendant]

i know this bc i called him out for patronising and attempting to humiliate a new kid and the amount of people who thanked me privately was insane lmao

[young tulip]

hey! That's every Indonesian college teacher is!

[hearty island]

I agree. I think he held an extremely high post as well bc he’s really cagey about it

[brittle pendant]

hahaha ugh i feel for you then

[hearty island]

you cannot be a mentor if you do not have the patience to teach. And some people are just not built for that.

[junior hornet]

It's similar with some fake kindness as well. Met someone that mistook kindness with manipulation. Dreadful stuff.

[brittle pendant]

most people who claim they are teachers are in reality just showcasing what they know and stroking their ego. if your student at any point feels ridiculed or embarrassed youre not a teacher in my eyes

[hearty island]

I’m not the smartest person clearly, I’m no genius. But what I bring to the table is my work ethic.

[young tulip]

Tell that to 90% of Indonesian college teacher...

[hearty island]

And Indian 😢😢😢, I’m Indian lol

[young tulip]

They literally ignore you when you chat them or notify that you completed the assignment

[hearty island]

omg dude wtf, why teach then?

[young tulip]

Make sense, in India being a soldier is the highest form of honor isn't it? Or something

[brittle pendant]

you seem like a chill guy from the brief interactions we've had so dont sweat it bro

[hearty island]

Only Indian in terms of race, I was born in America

[young tulip]

Ohh

[hearty island]

ty fam, you too.

[young tulip]

free money no work

[whole flare]

AFAIK Germany does, but dont quote me on that

[twilit portal]

A lot of teachers are teachers because that's just where the position they got hired for. They don't really care about the students or teaching unfortunately

[hearty island]

I think I’d wanna be an adjunct professor at my undergrad school, once I’ve had decent industry experience

as a way to give back to Hofstra

[young tulip]

I defo don't wanna be a teacher, underpaid as shit in here

[hearty island]

profs get paid well at Hofstra, and it would expose me to learning styles tbh.

[young tulip]

like literally unliveable wage

[twilit portal]

Yeah the fact that it's underpaid also doesn't help. Teaching well is actually difficult

[hearty island]

well I think I could really help students, to be honest

[young tulip]

An intern teacher sometimes even only got 500 rupiah
You only got minimum wage at government class teacher or smth

(For comparison a bag of rice is 70 rupiah)

[hearty island]

true that

[twilit portal]

And a lot of the time teachers get a lot of unrelated responsibilities too, which only makes it harder

[young tulip]

Worst part is that you can be an intern up to 4 years or more

so your literally living on 500 every month which is impossible

[twilit portal]

That seems like a gross misuse of the concept of "internship"

[young tulip]

And rent is 1k which is crazy

[hearty island]

I own a lot of my FTE job to my professor, he told me straight up I have a financial aptitude and was like Damian trust me on this, go into finance

[young tulip]

You had to go like a super hard test to be qualified and finally given minimum wage

[twilit portal]

Unfortunate

[junior hornet]

We jokingly call some teachers at my old uni pharaos, because there's one way they leave and intern teachers can finally have a place... by leaving the mortal plane.

[young tulip]

Crazy

[brittle pendant]

supreme court type beat

[junior hornet]

True dat haha. And it also creates more of them entitled "monsters". Kinda the they did it, now we do it too kinda deal.

Fully agreed. Another mean comment is that a lot who teach, unfortunately, weren't good enough for the profession.

Many do not even research or update their knowledge anymore.

[brittle pendant]

damn and the cycle continues 😔

i wish teachers were held to a much higher standard but it starts with them being paid more

[hearty island]

besides the rare exception of ppl who do and teach i agree w you

[brittle pendant]

like realising as an adult that some teachers have to buy class supplies with their own money is crazy

[junior hornet]

Real. Can't expect quality teaching when the state doesn't give them a loaf of bread.

[hearty island]

i had a prof who went to CMU

she was like the amount of profs who don't care is ridiculous, i try my best for y'all

[brittle pendant]

i remember in like kindergarten my teacher flipped shit like full blown screaming bc i messed up with a sheet of 'glossy' paper

i was held back after school and everything

[hearty island]

my elementary school was convinced i had a learning disability but truth was i was very bored

[brittle pendant]

i imagine some of them start out caring loads but just get beaten down by the system

[hearty island]

i agree, yea

[brittle pendant]

like you rarely see apathetic student teachers

[hearty island]

i agree. they get burnt out, like therapists too.

[brittle pendant]

hahaha me in hs

[hearty island]

i had issues studying, i found it boring. my mom made me study on hours endlessly, when i could've done like 50 mins a day and i'd have coasted w my pomodoro technique

dude indian parents and studying man. 😿

my mom was like you're either a med student or bust and i was like that is not how life works homie

[brittle pendant]

⚰️

i rmb my friends parents tried that shit and bro goes "if u want a doctor so bad you go be one then"

[hearty island]

LMAOOOOO

[brittle pendant]

nearly disowned 😭

[hearty island]

my parents thought i was a failure in HS cuz i couldn't figure out a career

[brittle pendant]

yea its funny theyll say that to kids after telling them doctor or die. and its like mf no wonder he has no idea

[hearty island]

fast forward to now they're like omg damian's work ethic and the fact he got a fte role is ridiculous and yada yada yada

parents lose their idea of reality fr. they have no idea how the world is for their kids.

they think with respect to their own generation.

[brittle pendant]

yeah they dont get the opportunity a first world country gives

exactly like i have friends who are personal trainers and make $200,000k

and doctors who are burned out

[hearty island]

and that is the exact problem my parents have

[brittle pendant]

i feel u

did you get a lot of comparing to random friends/relatives children lmao

[hearty island]

yep, haha

[brittle pendant]

so toxic man glad u made it fr 🫡

[hearty island]

you'll make it too homie

[brittle pendant]

ngl ive made a lot of progress processing the whole trauma of it all

[hearty island]

it's traumatic, but you grow too

[brittle pendant]

yea for sure just gotta see the silver lining in it all

[hearty island]

in my exp, trauma either makes you or breaks you fr

[brittle pendant]

like i definitely understand peoples emotions a lot better for it i think

[brittle pendant]

yea it can be a driving force but im gonna motivate my kids in a better way for sure

[hearty island]

exactly. don't want a chip on their shoulder. i have one fs, but i do therapy lol

[brittle pendant]

lol its mandatory with an upbringing like that

[hearty island]

hahahaha, agreed.

[brittle pendant]

my dad is a phd in economics and a prof from like mid twenties so you can imagine the ball busting was immense

[hearty island]

oh, shit. my dad was from IIT. my mom went and did her bachelors at a top school in india in commerce.

she would've done her CPA if i never existed... if she still had that dawg inside of her

[brittle pendant]

yea with those kinda backgrounds our fate was sealed lmao

[hearty island]

https://tenor.com/view/doginme-dog-in-me-based-push-ups-lifting-gif-5132435158727545776

[hearty island]

my grandpa was a civil engineer, my grandma never went to college, my other grandpa was a math prof and in finance

so pretty qualified

fuck dude, did anyone hear about this?

[brittle pendant]

thats cool i wish i had athletes in my fam

[young tulip]

Yeah, that is super cool to have athletes gene

[brittle pendant]

frfr

[hearty island]

guys, i'm looking at my background check. kinda worried. don't understand what i'm reading

[cerulean basin]

@turbid bobcat hi there! sorry for the ping, whenever you're free can you take a look on this.
Also thanks for the earlier changes, i got some offers by ur suggested changes :D

alright thanks! All the best for your interview

[hearty island]

good luck!!!!! you go get that mfing bread!

[gritty rivet]

Worried about what?

[hearty island]

i fucked up my dates bc i didn't represent the past 7 years, i represented my last 4 positions
and they were like tf damian you worked more than that
so they asked for W2s and offer letters so i sent them
and now they aren't responding

it says "Complete - Consider"

[hearty island]

https://www.teamblind.com/post/Sterling-background-check-result-is-consider-even-after-submitting-W2-vomX62sb

if i get fucked over i'm gonna lose it

i might have to call sterling up

[gritty rivet]

If they choose not to hire you because your background check shows a long history then the one on your resume, you don't want to work for them anyway

If I'm understanding correctly, you didn't misrepresent anything, even unintentionally. I wouldn't assume the worst for no reason.

[hearty island]

ty fam. yea i should be ok. everyone is telling me i'm ok.

[faint depot]

Bit late to the convo but when I dropped out of uni last year, my parents were not happy. They both wanted to kick me out of the house. Managed to convince them otherwise (with a few conditions)

All I did was just going back to the coding and just trying to dedicate most of my time to it. Kinda showed to my mum I wasnt just going to sit back and do fuck all

[fleet iris]

is pcap worth alone? for getting job as python dev

[fringe sphinx]

First: look at job descriptions on LinkedIn to get a sense of what employers look for

Certifications, in general, aren't useful for programming/dev positions. Most (nearly all, I'd guess) entry positions now require a degree

[hearty island]

I agree with Billy Bobby and before recursive_error beats me to it, im gonna paraphrase: A degree is the least path of resistance

[fringe sphinx]

But there are adjacent jobs (qa, ops, support) that are possible entry points while you build you knowledge

[fleet iris]

i was asking in general

[fleet iris]

oh so why degree then? if cert not matter..

i am really confused should i go for the pcap exam its 200 dollars and its expensive for me

[iron falcon]

I am currently working in a company that uses python majorly for development and research. what would be a good project to build a portfolio to jump into something more research intensive, like ML or AI?

[glossy orchid]

imagine programming and learning it for like 8 years just to continue your career with something that is not remotely close to any type of programming.... couldn't be me

[fleet iris]

my brother joined govt job leaving programming (10 years)

[brazen sky]

Look guys what i got!

[brittle pendant]

that takes guts man but i believe in you 🫡

[brittle pendant]

cool have fun!

[brazen sky]

Thank!

[dark arrow]

path of least resistance 🥴

[fringe sphinx]

(everytime he says that, I think this)

[twilit portal]

Are database-related jobs a possible entry point for someone without a degree?

[white relic]

Many things are possible. But virtually anything you can list will be easier with a degree.

[twilit portal]

I understand that.
I mean is it a good/likely entry point?

[fringe sphinx]

I'm taking a look at linkedin db roles. If I were aiming for a technical role, pre-degree... I'd focus on Linux + Cloud skills.

Database operation might be part of that... but on top of strong systems administration skills.

[gritty rivet]

You probably shouldn't bother, but like BillyBobby said, check your local job listings to see if it's actually valued at all

[white relic]

I'm not sure about database jobs specifically but I suspect they're not plentiful enough to make it a practical career plan

Many people do start in IT help desk type roles, which is something you don't need a degree for

[fringe sphinx]

In larger organizations, you'll find a db ops team. Heck, there's a team for backup/recovery, storage systems, etc. Every layer has a team (maybe 2-3 people, but still)

[white relic]

But would they be hiring people without a degree? Sincere question

[twilit portal]

Mmm thank you!
Yeah I'm not sure that's for me then, I'm more interested in working with data in general. But data jobs seem to require even more education from what I've heard

[true harness]

they're pretty niche though, and also involve other skills, like cloud skills

[gritty rivet]

If you can somehow manage to get really, really good at DB administration, then sure

I agree with Trent that help desk / general IT support is a much more typical entry point. The ConpTIA A+ certification is the standard place to start

[gritty rivet]

I think that's right... So why not get a degree? Wherever you are, there's probably a way to make it work

[twilit portal]

I have health issues that will make it very difficult and I know that I can't get accommodations for it

[gritty rivet]

You've looked at online degrees? If you're in the US, WGU is a popular option. If you can't manage something like that, it's hard to imagine how you would manage things the even harder way

[twilit portal]

I've looked, but I'm not sure.
I'm not in the US and locally a lot of people here look at online degrees as a sort of scam or a fake degree. So I don't think it would be much of an advantage

I'm thinking of learning basic webdev and just try earning by making websites for local businesses or something

[fringe sphinx]

I'm looking at a few "database administrator" jobs in linkedin/USA, and don't see a lot of degree requirements.

[twilit portal]

Oh! Thank you, that is encouraging

[fringe sphinx]

Generally jobs with "administrator" in the title will be more IT/systems-oriented (and lower requirements)

but not all... many still have degree requirements

[gritty rivet]

Worth a shot if there's still a good local market for that... Building a strong portfolio and network of contacts will probably be key

[true harness]

this is possibly the funniest formatting i have ever seen. also absolutely absurd requirements for "Database Administrator"

[fringe sphinx]

My two cents: an online degree is better than no degree. And, work experience (ie: administrator work) + an online degree will set you up for your next job.

Or, to quote Churchill again: "Perfection is the enemy of progress" (or was it voltaire? I dunno)

[twilit portal]

Makes sense
Thank you everyone

[faint depot]

Thank you and to you too. Im in the final stages of two apprenticeships Ive applied. Inshallah I get accepted

[hearty island]

lmao

[sinful steppe]

Bin 1

Blockchain Technologies and its Applications
Cloud Computing

Bin 2

Machine Learning
Computer Graphics and Multimedia

Bin 3

Introduction to Cyber Security
Information retrieval

Bin 4

Computer Vision
Natural Language Processing
Data Mining

[white relic]

what are these bins

[sinful steppe]

I prefer the ones that offer the most opportunities but I don't know what they are

[white relic]

are they courses?

[sinful steppe]

Yes for my 5th semester

[brisk anvil]

how many semesters are in a year

[sinful steppe]

2

[fringe sphinx]

It's like you started a conversation in the middle, rather than the beginning.

[sinful steppe]

Is that wrong?

[fringe sphinx]

Maybe: Hey, I'm in Uni, entering 3rd year, majoring in <XYZ>, and trying to figure out what courses to take. I'm interested in XYZ and ABC.

[fringe sphinx]

It's confusing.

[sinful steppe]

Hey, I'm in college, entering my 3rd year, majoring in computer science and trying to figure out what courses to take. I am not particularly interested in any of the courses except Machine Learning and I am supposed to provide a preference list for each of the bins and I prefer the ones that offer the most opportunities but I haven't got any idea. So could anyone please help me with it?

[sinful steppe]

You got quarters over there?

[gritty rivet]

The main way I would gauge opportunities related to a topic is to search job listings in your local area

If you know any recent graduates from your program (or can find them on LinkedIn) those people might have relevant input too

[digital fjord]

I've started assembling my resume again, and I've noticed a lot of my more interesting work is part of a larger whole, in the style of implemented X for Y, rather than being a project on its own, so I can't e.g. link a GitHub repo with my own code. Is that going to be an issue? My name is of course in the git logs and all that, and I could probably get references.

[latent estuary]

Is CS actually becoming obsolete like everyone’s saying? I’m in high school and was planing to take it to learn about ai and machine learning and language models

[fringe sphinx]

In that case: I'd cross blockchain off. It's a buzzword but not terribly interesting nowadays IMO.

Cyber Security / Information Retrieval: Interesting, if that's somehitng you're interested in. Otherwise, if you're ML focused, then Bin 2 or 4

[fringe sphinx]

Who is "everyone"? Sounds like typical influencer nonsense.

[sinful steppe]

Lol no I am supposed to provide a preference list for each of the bins

[white relic]

Links to GitHub are not as important as the skills you learned and your ability to describe what you did.
As a rule, I would not assume anybody reading your resume will click a link at all.

[gritty rivet]

Nobody who works in the field is saying that CS is becoming obsolete.

Does it automatically guarantee you a great job like it used to? No

The question I would ask is compared to what other field? Is there a better option? That depends on your interests, goals, talents, etc.

[sinful steppe]

I will be allocated a course from each of the bins

[fringe sphinx]

What are you making a preference for then? Which bin or which course within the bin?

[sinful steppe]

Isn't it pretty uniform across all the countries since they all are so related?

[sinful steppe]

Preference for courses within the bin

[fringe sphinx]

My strategy for course selection was; Pick courses I know the least about.

I often hated the courses in topics I was interested in... because: I already knew something about the topic.

[twilit portal]

Do you need 1 course in each bin?

[sinful steppe]

I don't really know enough about any of those topics to land me a job

[sinful steppe]

Preference list for each of the bins

[fringe sphinx]

You don't take courses to "land you a job". You take them to broaden your knowledge. The sum total is what gets you the job.

[fringe sphinx]

This statement is ambiguous. For each bin, for each course in the bin, what? Like, you just want: Bin 4, 3, 2, 1?

[sinful steppe]

.

[fringe sphinx]

Maybe I'm crazy, but I have no idea what that means. Are you just picking one course from each bin?

[sinful steppe]

My 1st preference for the bin 1 would be either BTA or CC and I would be allocated one of course based on my choice as well as those of other's

And the same thing for the rest of the bins as well

[white relic]

I guess this is more about scheduling classes than making a field of study
i.e. they have some process behind the scenes that sorts students into class sections based on their preferences, and the bins represent courses that a student can be enrolled in concurrently without conflicts

[sinful steppe]

Yes and the selection criteria is based on the GPA

[gritty rivet]

I dunno, I live in the US and it's a big country... The ratio of jobs that relate to computer vision vs NLP vs data mining could absolutely vary widely from one local market to another

More importantly you might just want to get a feel for what kinds of roles involve what topics, qualitatively

But no need to overthink this, you could just flip a coin. The quality of the prof assigned to teach the course probably matters more than any of the rest

[fringe sphinx]

tbh, there's no wrong answer. I don't find blockchain "interesting", but a single course in it would probably be fun (for instance)

None of this will affect your job prospects.

[sinful steppe]

U sure about that? Won't the right course make my resume more attractive to the recruiter or anything like that?

[white relic]

IMO, resumes with coursework on them are weak resumes.

if all you have to say is "I took this course", it means you didn't do any projects or make anything concrete, that doesn't demonstrate skills

[digital fjord]

yeah, unless it's a very specialised elective (e.g. going for a formal verification internship with a TLA+ modelling elective on your resume), you ideally shouldn't need to rely on mandatory courses to fill out a resume.

[white relic]

you can always include projects done as part of your coursework, which will be a part of any good education

but I still think listing classes is a hallmark of a weak resume.

[digital fjord]

Do keep in mind that the very vast majority of college courses are the bare minimum for the relevant job. It is the assumption that you know at least that much.

[gritty rivet]

If you're still in school I think it's worth including when those courses are directly relevant to the job.

[white relic]

would someone reading the resume care about that?

[gritty rivet]

No need to emphasize that, but when coursework and projects point to the same skill, that reinforces the message that the person knows something about the thing

[white relic]

I mean, sure. People still in school often do have weak resumes.

I would expect that to be reflected in their projects / stuff they have created, whether it's for course credit or not.

[sinful steppe]

Of course I am gonna do all of that but what I am concerned about is which courses are more likely to prove more useful to me in the future. I mean I could end up learning computer vision or computer graphics and multimedia and never really using it.

[digital fjord]

that's normal, you'll end up taking some useless courses in college. But it is nice to avoid them.

[sinful steppe]

But some are less useless than others

And I was wondering if you guys could help me

[digital fjord]

Cloud Computing
Machine learning
Information retrieval
any of them, ideally all of them.

[sinful steppe]

So CC in bin 1, ML in bin 2 and IR in bin 3?

[digital fjord]

yea, IMO

[sinful steppe]

What about bin 4? How does Natural Language Processing sound

[digital fjord]

do double check with people who've taken the courses to make sure the professors are adequate and the content is vaguely usable.

[gritty rivet]

But a short title tells you near zero. Have you read the full descriptions?

Even regardless of what the description says, like I mentioned, a good prof makes all the difference and can make almost any course worthwhile or worthless. If people use RateMyProfessor over there, I would pay some attention to that

[sinful steppe]

The thing is our college doesn't want to reveal who teaches what since there are too many unworthy ones here

[twilit portal]

What does that mean? Unworthy teachers?

[gritty rivet]

Lol, sounds like you shouldn't waste any more mental cycles on this decision then. Pick whatever.

[sinful steppe]

Thanks y'all

[pine arrow]

Here is the updated resume template. DM if you would like it.

In addition here's a cover letter

[hearty island]

https://tenor.com/view/what-is-that-brother-what-is-that-whatsthat-whatsthatbrother-brother-gif-164522531710839787

[sour iron]

If we're gonna talk about the design and layout, then I feel like the margins are too narrow... Anything under 1.5cm looks too narrow to me... At that point, you might wanna go to two pages no?

[hearty island]

I would say jake’s resume is good. I’m sticking by that

[sour iron]

I haven't seen Jake's resume, but I'm glad you've found the one you like...

I saw this online, and I love it... Piece of art. So I modified it a lot and use a modified version. Less margin space and other font

[true harness]

looks so empty 🤔

[ruby dust]

I mean sometimes that’s better, resume readers barely read them half the time.

[regal axle]

But not this empty. I would just assume they don't have anything and move on. Even if I am wrong.

Also, this is a 2 page resume. When it has no need to be. So that also takes points off, imo

[whole flare]

minimalism i guess ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[sour iron]

I agree with those points. Those are the exact points I majorly made my modifications on. Empty is good, there should be ample white space so it doesn't come off as too messy... but this is a lot empty

[regal axle]

Yea for sure, sometimes too much text is bad. But this is the other extreme

[dull belfry]

do datascience degree teach u things like dsa and sofware engneering so that i can apply for sde roles once i graduate

[pine arrow]

large margins create a feel of wasted space and lack of content. You don

[fringe sphinx]

I don't really like this, margins do feel excessive

[pine arrow]

don't have space to illustrate what you succeeded in the particular job

[fringe sphinx]

Every university has different degree requirements. Data science is relatively new as a degree, so I doubt there's much consistency. What Uni do you want to go to?

[hearty island]

This looks like a restaurant menu

[dull belfry]

i dont know honestly i am looking for ds degrees in india

[sour iron]

I mean... your resume is little bit of a resturant menu to the recruiter

[fringe sphinx]

But: being ready for a SWE/SDE role is primarily about your personal growth during Uni... not just the courses.

[dull belfry]

i think in future there be many ds and ml opportunities

so i stick to ds even though i like sde

[fringe sphinx]

Come up with a list of 3 schools you might be interested in, then look at their DS degree and the specific requirements (courses) for them

[hearty island]

not that simple tho

[dull belfry]

yes i have to research

[fringe sphinx]

I -expect- that a DS undergrad is very similar to CS but with more math.

[hearty island]

there are specific details and metrics here

[dull belfry]

so stuff like system design linux dsa all be subjects?

[fringe sphinx]

Linux wouldn't be a subject. I assume DSA would be covered. Software design / engineering might be an elective

[dull belfry]

ok

i dont actually know which one should i go for i like everything i cant just choose one.. i even like networking and also plan to learn for comptia net and A+ too

i should stop and focus on one XD

[fringe sphinx]

When do you have to decide?

[dull belfry]

in 6-7 months have to find a college

[fringe sphinx]

Good luck. I don't think either degree will lock you in: the real career prep is the learning/projects/activities you do during the degree.

(And the friends you make along the way)

[sour iron]

This is after my modifications. Pardon the excessive content hidden. Not sure what I can post and what not

[fringe sphinx]

I like the font choice. I think many people would struggle with the line spacing, because they want to cram a lot of bullets into one page.

[sour iron]

I was able to fill up the page with fewer spacing. But then, I realised I like this better. Less content, concise and straight forward. Given how much time the recruiter will take looking at it...

[pine arrow]

Hence putting the most important info at the top is important

[sour iron]

That as well 🙂

[pine arrow]

👍

[true harness]

to me this still looks super sparse. only 2 bullets for a project? there should be bullets explaining what kind of technologies you used to accomplish the cool thing the project does

[smoky quest]

add bullets to the projects about what was cool about them. I am sure there is more to say than you adding comments

[sour iron]

At the time I felt like those were sufficient to describe my projects. Well, maybe they are sufficient to describe, but reading your suggestions, I think you are right. I can say more and better things. While they are pretty basic projects, but indeed I have been able to get some surprising outcomes. Maybe I should rethink and replace the existing pointers with what you suggest. Thanks, I will work on it 🙂🏵️

[true harness]

there are a lot of strategies for bullet points, like "STAR". could be worth searching some of those up and seeing some examples

[brittle pendant]

is jake someone you know irl or like a careers guy lol?

[brittle pendant]

i like this its nice if its a template can u slide it to me

[brittle pendant]

agreed w/ people saying its sparse like the spacing between bullet points seems quite excessive feel like u could get more in if it was tighter

also the stylised latex is probably a horrible idea bc

1. if theyre running resumes through a keyword match
2. basic human readability

[sour iron]

I had to increase the spacing because at the time I only had 2 points. But now, since I am going to reconsider, maybe I will have to decrease the spacing

[brittle pendant]

i would and is it an american thing to have resumes as 1 page?

generally here (aus) you can get away with 2

[true harness]

i don't think it's just the US. you can have multiple pages if your experience warrants it. but most people first writing resumes (that the advice is targeted to) don't have that kind of xp

[sour iron]

I don't know! I always heard you should keep it one page. So I tried. But I won't try so hard to keep it 1 page...

[brittle pendant]

yea fair mine wasnt always 2

[brittle pendant]

i would check with your peers in that sense when i was a student it was definitely 1

[hearty island]

Sure, I’ll just put it here

#career-advice message

[brittle pendant]

nice thank u 😼

wtf i had it bookmarked ⚰️

[sand horizon]

My goal is to pursue a master's in data science or machine learning at a top university in Europe. Is a high GMAT score necessary, or is my 2:1 honors degree with a 74.2% grade sufficient? i have 2 years of work
experience in data analytics

[gritty rivet]

There's no real answer to this until you get your offer letters, but you should be able to find the formal requirements and the average GMAT scores for whichever programs you are looking at

[young cedar]

@gritty rivet how to convert infix expression to postfix expression?

[gritty rivet]

No idea what that is, but it doesn't sound like a career question so you may be in the wrong channel

[vapid jay]

Any advice to prep qualifications for an entry position as data analyst? Django isn't my path or web dev.

[white relic]

What do you mean by "to prep qualifications"?

[vapid jay]

What are the usual practices to prep oneself for an entry level position as a data analyst. Hard skills in particular.

[fringe sphinx]

Data analyst can mean a lot of things, with varying skills. It's somewhat hard to answer generically

But: Kaggle.com/learn is a good set of Python related hard skills

But, I'd also make sure you have some
excel skills too

[regal axle]

You know it is good when the CEO gives you his phone number. I can't actually talk to him till a little later. But I hope it is all good things :D

Now I go back to the cave to handle some stuff and then give him a call

[hearty island]

LET’S FUCKING GO BACKGROUND CHECK CLEARED GUYS! @sand patio

[gritty rivet]

https://roadmap.sh/data-analyst

[twilit portal]

That roadmap also mentions online certifications.
Are they useful for a data analyst?

[gritty rivet]

Maybe... Study your local job market for the real answer. Are relevant job listings asking for particular certs? Are people working in your area listing them on their LinkedIn?

[twilit portal]

Thank you, I will study it.
I am curious about the international market though, ideally (long term future) I would like to go remote/international because I could get a higher pay/cost of living ratio for the same work

[gritty rivet]

Getting hired remotely across borders is very hard and all about experience and connections.

You might consider getting an advanced degree abroad. An online cert or two is unlikely to matter.

[twilit portal]

Thank you, I'll think about it
I'm thinking more in terms of "get the skills and cert now, get a job locally, maybe in a 5 years or so I will have enough work experience and skills so a degree wouldn't matter"
Maybe it's too naive, I don't even have a Bachelor's

[gritty rivet]

That plan may work out and I hope it does, but if your local conditions are anything like those in the US, a Bachelor's would absolutely be a step worth taking

[white relic]

Lacking a degree will probably never not matter, but over time it will matter less (if you build skills through experience, network, etc.)

[smoky quest]

Especially for international matters as degrees can unlock access to visas

[balmy mural]

Was about to mention this. Some visas require you to have a degree to qualify for those visas. So if you plan on working abroad, a degree is so much more important than it already is

[twilit portal]

Are visas required for remote work? Assuming I never want to go to another country for work?
I thought that visas were primarily used if you're actually going to a different country

[balmy mural]

Working remotely still generally requires you to be in the same country as your employer. There are some exceptions, but in those cases, you would still generally be paid a similar salary as working for a local company.

[regal axle]

Man ... technical interviews make you feel like such a fraud. I mean I did "fine". But I also didn't do perfect. Becuase wtf are these situations. They are vauge and not real.

[hearty island]

damnit, my manager is ill on the 15th
as well
how am i supposed to give a 2 week notice now

i am cooked

[gritty rivet]

Not your problem. Put in your notice as best you can.

[balmy mural]

You notify your manager's boss and CC your manager

[hearty island]

i can notify the UR team, university relations

[fringe sphinx]

To clarify one thing: if you're working remote for a company in another country, you'll work through a local (in your country) subsidiary or company who contracts with that company.

[smoky quest]

It's a matter of probability.
Hiring someone you do not know, in a very different timezone, with a different culture, with different tax system, with different healthcare, with different retirement system, etc. is incredibly complicated and risky.

Note also that if you were to find an employer from another country willing to hire you, you would be most likely to be paid at the level of people from your city, especially if you do not bring a unique set of skills to the table

[smoky quest]

you talk to their boss

[twilit portal]

I see, thank you for your input everyone

[hearty island]

she is way too busy for that

[smoky quest]

they will make time if you say it's urgent.
If not, then send an email

[balmy mural]

That's not your problem. You email them, once you do that, you've officially given notice

[gritty rivet]

If you're communicating your intent to resign, you're doing your part. The rest is not your problem

[hearty island]

ok

[deft herald]

Remember that if you're resigning, you owe the company nothing. Don't get burned by a false notion of loyalty

[sand horizon]

thats so true

[white relic]

"i'M tOO BuSy fOr YOu To rESiGn"

[smoky quest]

if you can't tell them you resign, then you can't resign

[gritty rivet]

Lol, Silicone Valley... Was that intentional? Sounds more like LA though

[smoky quest]

LA/santa monica would be the silicon beach

[deft herald]

Silicone vs Silicon

Silicone is what plastic surgery is made out of

[regal axle]

It wasn't even nerves. Although you could say there were some. The question we flawed. And I mean it literally becuase they then had me go over how I would fix the flaws of the system ... and then there was a function that I am getting very stuck on and they are just like, "oh yea, you can delete that" ... wtf.

[gritty rivet]

I've definitely walked out of technical interviews sure I bombed and then got the job. You just do your best and accept that the whole situation is stressful and out of your hands

[regal axle]

Yea. But it sounded like they were at least some what happy with my results. I mean, they looked bored out of their minds. But they said I did fine. who knows if I did. I mean,,, I will know when they respond to me

[balmy mural]

I've wanted to talk to my executive again about transferring to Europe. Was quite busy at work this past month, so I've just not found time to bring it up yet, but I plan on having a meeting with him next week.

My timeline is basically that if I'm not in Europe or have a confirmed position where we're just doing paperwork to get me there, me and my partner are going to re-evaluate where our relationship is and will likely start the process for a partner visa. I also want to send out some applications at the end of this year to some companies that look interesting, just to see if I can get an offer. If I get an offer, I would approach my current company first and inform them about it, ask if they can move me immediately or not. (I'm very happy at my company and would prefer not to change jobs). I'm unsure on what the chances of me getting an offer is with 2YoE in the current market though. Won't hurt to try.

I will be asking the following:

• Is there any progress/updates from his side to transferring me to Europe? (first meeting was about a year ago)
• Give him an update on my 1 year timeline after which I'll likely start the process of a partner visa
• Is there anything I can do from my side in the next year to increase my chances of being transferred?
  Any tips on how I should approach this meeting with my executive and any additional information I can give/ask them?

[regal axle]

I at least didn't bomb it. I did get to a "satisfactory" answer in the end. There were things that could have been better. And I just hate being in a situation where I feel like a fool, but the whole time, I am just being given bad and wrong information :(

[hearty island]

joshie i have full faith you and lisan will both get 🔥 jobs

chat do i hit enter? nah nvm don't wanna give her an anxiety attack rn

oh no that's another intern i'm talking to

[deft herald]

No - talk to your boss(es boss) first

[hearty island]

got it.

[deft herald]

But wait, are you an intern?

[hearty island]

yea

[deft herald]

Must be really bad if you're quitting now and not just waiting till the end of the internship...

[hearty island]

i tried to negotiate with my new employer and have them push my start date. they didn't budge.

[deft herald]

oh okay i gotcha

[smoky quest]

wait, you are quitting an internship?

[smoky quest]

I hope this is a chat with your bro and not your chain of command

[hearty island]

it's with this girl who's another intern with me

[hearty island]

yep

[smoky quest]

Next time, just set up the start date when the internship ends

no need to redo the speech about creating these types of problems for yourself

[woeful jetty]

hello

guys do y'all think that I can make some revenues with creating desktop softwares using tkinter, I want to know the ratio of offer/demand of this career path.

and I pretty much know python very well and tkinter is the fastest way I can start creating GUI applications so do all think its the best choice for me to start using it for my personnal use or are they better alternatives

[pine sleet]

probably not. python isn't great for making native desktop apps and most people don't do it

[woeful jetty]

maybe C++?

[pine sleet]

sure, maybe. i think C# is also very popular for native desktop app development. though desktop app development is a very narrow field

[woeful jetty]

what do you advise me to do if i want to work on Freelancing site like upwork using python , I'm thinking maybe Automation or Data science?

[pine sleet]

maybe, you could do that. but freelancing is very difficult and not really worth it

[woeful jetty]

yea maybe its really difficult to stand out as a developer where there is more then 20k (pakistani /indian) experienced devs doing the same thing that you do and better im talking about upwork

[woeful jetty]

did you had an experience of freelancing

[pine sleet]

no

what is your goal? are you simply trying to make some money? or are you trying to build out your career?

[woeful jetty]

no i love coding and i want to do something that i love, its not about money

[pine sleet]

okay, i'm not trying to stop you from doing freelancing but i'm not entirely sure it's an effective use of your time and energy

are you a university student?

[woeful jetty]

yes

[pine sleet]

what are you studying?

[woeful jetty]

math physics cs

[pine sleet]

great, keep that up. see if you can get some internships during your studies that will pay you and give you some experience

[woeful jetty]

I had an experience as a graphic designer in freelancing it was a good one i managed to learn the skill in 1 month and 15 days and i start working for 90 days i've done 20 transactions of 30$ and it was a good side hustle for my summer but i really didn't liked what I was doing ... i stopped when school started

[woeful jetty]

I managed to get my first order in the first 2 days and i don't think that's very hard you just need discipline and stay with you're idea till the end but i really don't know if its the same with programming ...

[pine sleet]

i can't really give specific advice on that wrt freelancing, check out the latest pinned message in this channel

i think it's not out of the question that you get a few jobs but i doubt it'll be interesting or would enrich your learning

people generally go on fiverr to get simple or repetitive stuff done by someone else

[woeful jetty]

I agree.

[pine sleet]

but if you were to get an internship during your studies, it's much more likely that you can work on stuff that's interesting, complex and helps your learning

[woeful jetty]

thanks

[fringe sphinx]

Graphic design is a bit of a different industry... freelancing there is very common, at many levels (from small to large projects). In development, using a freelancer for something important and 'big' is problematic: who's going to support it/etc

[twilit portal]

Is making websites something where freelancing is common/accepted or not? I'm especially curious about frontend?

[vapid jay]

hi

im having a problem

[gritty rivet]

Maybe less then it used to be but still pretty common... Look at what people are hiring for on Upwork. The problem is the competition.

[gritty rivet]

If it's a career question, just ask. If it's a Python question #❓｜how-to-get-help

[fringe sphinx]

!cban 991958215858344036 Highly inappropriate and off topic.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @cunning anchor permanently.

[mossy stag]

I want to get a certification on edX I want to ask what certificate would be the best I get fun of every type of programming language so please dont just tell me to pick whatever I love I just want a recommandation for what would be the best (which university and which course these are the courses if you want to look)

I deleted the link let me check if giving links is a ban reason

[pine sleet]

what certificate is it?

[mossy stag]

I didnt understand what exactly are you asking but you complete an online course of a university and getting a certificate by paying I thought it would be a good idea for putting in my CV and Im asking for someone experienced in getting a job what do companies look the most (like XXX university or XXX programming language)

[gritty rivet]

What is your goal in paying for this certificate ?

Certain jobs value certain certifications, but when it comes to programming, certifications are generally pretty worthless

[pine sleet]

since you are asking in the careers channel of a python server i am assuming are you trying to go into software engineering, in which case i would not recommend doing swe certificates (especially not for such a price), it's not worth it since you can put personal projects, internships, and a university degree on your resume which are all worth far more

[mossy stag]

it wont be that expensive because of discounts I will probably get %95 discount because Im living in Turkey and we have like %1000 inflation so even if I just say "Turkey." when I mailed them they will give me a discount so much and not only for certificate the main reason is to learn by doing the course so dont think about to price

my sister paid the %5 of that price when she got the certificate

[pine sleet]

It would be better to work on projects imo

[small wigeon]

I work as an SRE and prize solid software engineering skills. To me certifications mean little because frankly I don't have time to see which are good and which are not. Working on open source projects I can see, being an expert somewhere like here i can see etc etc.

[mossy stag]

what exactly should I put on my CV?

[small wigeon]

Evidence of expertise. I did x using y type statements. The more specific evidence about what makes YOU special the better

[mossy stag]

got it thank you so much

[small wigeon]

Try and put yourself in the mind of the hiring manager. What would make them want to talk to you. They are looking for evidence you are suitable. No good saying "I'm paasionate about unit testing" but great to say "mentored team members in the use of pytest leading to introduction of testing in a project that previously had zero percent coverage"

For me. Do not ever say "python scripting". I want software engineers 🙂

[buoyant seal]

Seeing how rarely people able to use unit testing, i am happy just to see smth among the lines of "passionate about unit testing and able to write high coverage testing code" (with validating can cover db related code and code having third party apis)
It is devastatingly hard to encounter skill being present in general at an acceptable level 🙈 (or at least i got disappointed in people after coveyering interviews)

[small wigeon]

Absolutely

[small wigeon]

Actually to be fair i have chosen people for interview on the grounds that they mention testing because clearly they see as important

[twilit portal]

How common is it in your experience to give people a chance to interview them if they seem to have good expertise and open source projects but no college degree?

[smoky quest]

it's about the 👏 demonstrated 👏 skills 👏 for the job.
As long as the candidate demonstrate them, they can have a chance. However some jobs do require skills that many self taught do not know about or are less likely to master, and for these jobs it will be more difficult to get an interview

[twilit portal]

Demonstrated skills, good phrasing, thank you.
I might look into more web frontend related things as it's easier to demonstrate skills when you can easily show a portfolio of what you made

[smoky quest]

yeah frontend is a common entry point for self taught engineers.
The counter part to that is that it does imply some level of competition since there are far more self taught engineers candidates trying to apply

[twilit portal]

I'm not really afraid of competition, I think overtime I will be able most of the CS curriculum by myself and differentiate myself with fundamental skills that a lot of people in the frontend seem to lack
And I'm pretty good at selling myself
I know that a degree is the path of least resistance, but as long as having no degree isn't going to make my chances miserably small, I will try

[smoky quest]

tbh, not having a degree makes your chances miserably small comparing to having a degree.
But if that's what you are working with, then that's what you are working with and should strive to work on your skills.

[fringe sphinx]

Also: 'miserably small' for what job title? There are -many- jobs in tech, many SWE's first job was not SWE.

[hybrid vale]

lol ngl, in this current job market having no degree definitely is huge negative

[gritty rivet]

Even desktop support is getting harder and harder to break into without a degree these days... Obviously that depends on location and other things I'm sure

[junior crater]

not responding to anything specific, but being able to solve an industry struggle (not a company you'd expect to hire a swe) ive seen be a hgih percentage hire

[small wigeon]

Harder, but not impossible. Contribute to projects, maybe try and speak at conferences. You are going to have to get yourself noticed

[twilit portal]

Thank you! I will take that into account
And thank you everyone else for your input!

[plush summit]

I let chatgpt write my unittests lol

[hard tundra]

Does anyone know anything about Willamette University's 3 + 1 BS/MS in CS? It's the first 4 year masters I've seen and I'm wondering how valuable it actually is and if I would genuinely learn enough.

[gritty rivet]

On LinkedIn you can search people by school. That's probably the best way to find graduates and see how they turned out

[small wigeon]

I thought a little bit more about this overnight, and I realised that I have someone on my team with no degree. The guy is AMAZING. I run a 35 strong team for a financial institution. This guy came to me as a contractor first. I needed someone to handle a bunch of the monitoring and incident tasks. I didn't need him to have a degree for that role and so didn't ask for one. Since day 1 he has been a superstar. I turned him into permanent staff the moment I was able to and am glad I did. He did not have the SWE skills I really need for some of the job, but he currently does maintenance to code and we are fully funding him through learning. I hope that he doesn't leave but when he does he will legitimately be able to say that he contributed to the code base at xyz corp. A great opportunity for him, but a massively positive impact on the team, and he got it because he absolutely ACED the position he came in to do

[exotic crypt]

i have a problem can anyone help me?

[small wigeon]

I'm sad now 🙂

[twilit portal]

Thank you!
So if I can become very good and then somehow get my foot in the door to demonstrate my skills, it may be possible.

[exotic crypt]

i have a problem can anyone help me?

[twilit portal]

If it's not career related, you can ask in https://discord.com/channels/267624335836053506/267624335836053506 or open a thread in https://discord.com/channels/267624335836053506/1035199133436354600

[small wigeon]

Yes. I think foot in the door is the way to think about this. Maybe consider the company you apply to more than the actual role and look to move internally. I am 55 years old and I think that I have done well in my career, I earn very good money and have tackled a bunch of interesting problems, met a bunch of interesting people and generally enjoyed the ride, and most of the big opportunities I have had have been through internal moves.

[cerulean basin]

not yet currently in testing phase, soon be publishing it

[twilit portal]

Very good information!

[cerulean basin]

thanks! ill implement the changes

[exotic crypt]

i want to send a video

[cerulean basin]

yeah i understand, my aim of this extension is to easily fix the style errors when you are writing the code, so it wouldnt even produce the errors in pre-commits.

we can feed it the styleguide docs and then it will analyze the code at a regular interval, and provide the sugestions, what should be written.

[unkempt zinc]

can you suggest me what would be the best approach for me to leverage my skill in constructing code from basic code to atleast intermediate level .....since i joined this server i look you're effortlessly construct your own original code

im learning python for career, data science to be specific

[gritty rivet]

To be a successful SWE with. No degree? t's possible yes.

It's more difficult than ever though, constantly getting less and less common

While I know a number of people who have done it, every single one did try to go back to school at some point, because they saw how it could hold them back, and many never finished

So if you're 100% convinced that you need to skip the degree for now, yes, go for it and with persistence you'll reach some form of success. But if you can possibly get the degree, get the degree

[unkempt zinc]

this?
im learning python for career, data science to be specific

since i joined this server i look you're effortlessly construct your own original code ?

i saw you said you have created a code

an ML code but you said you havent tried the code yet in data science channel
like how do you effortlessly

create such a code

can you perhaps share the kind of method/approach youre using to improv?

in creating a code

i have been learning python for few mths
and i try to leverage my python skill
and i try to working in sorting data and data cleansing
but i did not wan to be spoonfed everytime i wan to work on any project

[odd sorrel]

Hello, i am a 17 year old Junior Python Developer looking for a remote group project(i want to have experience working on group projects).
I know Python(Intermediate Python + working with API + its libraries like smtplib, time, WeatherData, Tkinter, Flask, csv, etc), Java(basics), Web Development(HTML, CSS, Bootstrap), i have knowledge on IT Technically(software and hardware), and i have some Digital Marketing(+ copywriting) knowledge if necessary!
If there is a group project or if there is one being created, and if my requirements match, then i would be happy to work with you, please contact me if anyone is interested.
I recommend remote group project.

[pine sleet]

!contribute

[inner wren]

Contribute to Python Discord's open source projects

Looking to contribute to Open Source Projects for the first time? Want to add a feature or fix a bug on the bots on this server? We have on-going projects that people can contribute to, even if you've never contributed to open source before!

Projects to Contribute to

• Sir Lancebot - our fun, beginner-friendly bot
• Python - our utility & moderation bot
• Site - resources, guides, and more

Where to start

1. Read our contribution guide
2. Chat with us in #dev-contrib if you're ready to jump in or have any questions
3. Open an issue or ask to be assigned to an issue to work on

[fringe sphinx]

Also. start simple and don't use GPT. At all. If you start with a too hard project, you'll get frustrated and learn very little. If you're getting spoonfed, that probably means you took too big a step.

[frail cape]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-explosion-meme-funny-idk-gif-27640147

[azure lava]

hello community members i currently in college and i decided to make a career as python full stack developer i learned python intermediate level and than i thinking to learn a flask django than after other stuff but can anyone here who help me to learn data structure algorithm in python i f anyone knows any good resources for python DSA

[smoky quest]

I wouldn't care too much about DSA specifically in python.
I would suggest to focus on either. And for DSA, this book is one of the best: https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262046305/introduction-to-algorithms/

[smoky quest]

It's not a meme dump

[azure lava]

👍

[cerulean basin]

thanks @turbid bobcat for your suggestions! actually I am also trying on in the same domain as @unkempt zinc , doing EDA always seems a challenging task for me, especially when the datasets are really big and i dont have point where to start of

I usually go through the notebooks posted on kaggle and people work on it to figure things out

[fringe sphinx]

My favorite eda reference: https://www.itl.nist.gov/div898/handbook/. chapter 1. I promise if you go through this, you'll be better able to engage in a new dataset

[cerulean basin]

Thanks a lot ill go through it

[rose jackal]

Hello everyone!

[ivory sluice]

@lean rapids please keep your message content appropriate to this server's #rules and #code-of-conduct

[hearty island]

whew, finished all my workday tasks. can't wait to announce the position soon for linkedin clout

[unkempt zinc]

I didn use GPT but as i think of how to create more fancier way to filter out the data ....i didn found myself could construct the code on my own even just 1/5 of the whole code

[late geyser]

whatsapp

today this is the first time im learning python
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqtD5dpn9C8

[hearty island]

nice, but this is #career-advice

[late geyser]

oh yea im so braindead

[hearty island]

nah dw fam i do it all the time haha

[cloud barn]

Are there any alternatives which i could use as a mentor? Anyone familiar with these? I was hoping to use it to schedule studies and summarize textbooks so i can prep a little before the day's classes

[manic wave]

Hello

[umbral frigate]

Hi! This channel is for career discussion only. You'd probably want to ask in #ot1-perplexing-regexing

[smoky quest]

ngl that sounds more like a teacher than a mentor. There are websites you can find when looking for python teacher

[cloud barn]

It's a bit more general purpose than that, Thought these would be good at scheduling and summarizing the textbooks, the sem 1 software engineering tb alone is about 800 pages so was hoping to get it to summarize the topics by uploading the textbooks into it, Will be taking another program on BS DataScience along with this program so i was trying to make the process more streamlined and easier to follow

[smoky quest]

yeah, that's not what mentors are for

[cloud barn]

Well, AI would be efficient for that work eitherway right? so are there any non-pais alternatives that work well?

[junior hornet]

<@&831776746206265384>

[still condor]

!ban 1248571159662952519 scam

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @midnight shuttle permanently.

[smoky quest]

sounds like you want a tutor

[cloud barn]

A chatbot should be good enough 👀 it's more specific tasks

[junior hornet]

Have you tried not uploading your file to GPT? Try to feed it information without ftp.

[smoky quest]

<@&831776746206265384> ads

[umbral frigate]

!rule 6 9

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[still condor]

@wooden raven The channel description pretty clearly says that this is not for recruitment

[wooden raven]

Where to ask then lol

[umbral frigate]

This server isn't a recruitment board.

[still condor]

Discord is not a good place to find freelance workers. Use whatever freelance board is popular in your country

[wooden raven]

I ain't freelancing
I need a dude to help me with my discord bot development
Also it isn't a paid job

[still condor]

If you have questions, feel free to ask them in #1035199133436354600 or in #discord-bots

[wooden raven]

A dude said i can ask for recruitment in forum

[still condor]

what dude?

In any case, having screening requirements for a one-time unpaid consultation is very ambitious

[umbral frigate]

We don't have a place for recruitment. If anyone seems interested in your project then they would talk to you, but you can't just advertise.

[fringe frigate]

Can I send a dot here?

[near ocean]

No

[regal marsh]

Good day everyone, please have been out of work since the begining march and i don't have means of feeding myself..am a web programmera(entry level),please if u can help me out with any work or gigs(either part time or full time),so as to be able to pay my bills,i will be grateful..Thanks

[kindred oyster]

with all due respect this is not a place for paid work , you can try one of the freelancing sites
you can ask for advice here , like a resume review or smth like that so that we can improve your resume and increase chances of landing a job

[hearty island]

i second saul goodman here ^

my application journey essentially. (rough estimates)

[true harness]

how is that even possible. over how long?

[whole flare]

that's wild

[hearty island]

hell if i know

entry level grads have it difficult in this market, or i just had exceptionally bad luck.

or it's as you said psvm, i was bad at interviews

[whole flare]

what job roles were you targeting?

[hearty island]

mostly financial analyst roles, like risk analyst, credit analyst, business analyst (within the financial landscape)

[whole flare]

I see

[hearty island]

IT too, data analytics as well

i definitely learned so much through every interview.

i'm not including the TS/SCI clearance jobs i got conditional offers for

that shit broke my heart

i used to stumble over my words in interviews, it's an acquired skill

[fringe sphinx]

Waiting for your new career as an interview coach.

[hearty island]

haha, that's all you man wdym

[whole flare]

And you're a grad of BA right?

[hearty island]

BBA, bachelors of biz admin in biz analytics.

[whole flare]

Yeah by BA I meant Buisness Analytics

[hearty island]

oh silly me. yea.

[whole flare]

👀

[hearty island]

and this was with 6 internships. so you can just imagine how competitive it is out there.

[whole flare]

damn, finance seems cooked

[hearty island]

yea dude. unless you start early on.

[hearty island]

thank the lord i did the internships i did

[hearty island]

july of 2023. sorry i didn't see your question.

i grew myself thanks to this very server

so thank you to each and every one of you in #career-advice. you kept me acountable.

[fringe sphinx]

finance undergrad programs also haven't really kept up with technology or market changes, so it churns out a lot of Excel users who are underprepared for demanding data jobs.

[hearty island]

i am also part of r/financialcareers and i constantly stress python

[whole flare]

I see

[hearty island]

however, @fringe sphinx columbia has a fire program in finance for undergrads. then again it's fucking columbia. they really build technical skills

why the psvm

[crisp mantle]

Help me guys

[fringe sphinx]

One of the finance folks I work with is taking an online data science masters... first session was basically a CS crash course.

[crisp mantle]

I'm going to attend my campus interview next week and I know c cpp java python and my projects that I added in my resume are 2 which are personal portfolio using html,css javascript and 2 project is Flappy bird game using python python pygame

Is these two enough , someone guide me

[hearty island]

not surprising, i remember jigglypuff asking you guys for help

[fringe sphinx]

But you're the batman.

[fringe sphinx]

If it's not enough, what would you do?

[crisp mantle]

Not that great academic

[hearty island]

what's the role

job desc? resume you used?

[crisp mantle]

Technologies Job Description*
● Batch: 2025 pass out
● Cut-Off: 65% (Standing arrears are not a problem except for Maths)
Required Skills/Experience:
● Strong aptitude, problem-solving, and logical thinking skills
● Quick learner with a great attitude
● Fundamental programming skills are preferred but not mandatory
● Good communication skills
● Transparency and integrity
● Confident and energetic
Good to Have Skills:
● Core Java, SQL
● Knowledge in .NET MVC, HTML, CSS, jQuery, Angular, Java, J2EE, web designing tools

[hearty island]

hmmm

[fringe sphinx]

I mean, it's in a week. What are you going to do, crap out some half-baked project in a week?

[hearty island]

i agree with this, there's not much you can do.

[crisp mantle]

I'm good at problems solving but 8 just not focused on projects

[fringe sphinx]

You're fine. Be confident: it's not just about your knowledge. Be comfortable not knowing the answer to every question.

[fringe sphinx]

You got the interview. They saw your resume. Why are you worried?

[hearty island]

it sounds like you have the same issue i did, which is confidence

[crisp mantle]

Thanks man now I feel peace

First time bruhh

[hearty island]

first time for everything, champ!

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, don't stress it. But, interview prep tips:

• Prepare one or two "stories" that you can use for behavioral questions. Things that illustrate a challenge you had / conflict / success / something you've accomplished / etc.

[hearty island]

billybobby, would we ever have an interview practice channel on this server? or nah

[crisp mantle]

Yass bro tell me about interview prep

[hearty island]

actually this belongs in #community-meta sorry

[fringe sphinx]

• Have 2-3 "good questions". Always always ask questions: many interviewers love to talk.

[crisp mantle]

Noted

[fringe sphinx]

For example, one good question is asking the interviewer about their career journey.

[hearty island]

i like to ask these standard qs normally: "Questions about the Role:
Can you describe the typical day-to-day responsibilities of this role?
What are the primary objectives and key performance indicators (KPIs) that you expect this position to achieve?
How does this role contribute to the overall goals and mission of the organization, particularly in terms of revenue cycle operations?
Questions about Team Dynamics and Collaboration:
How does the revenue cycle operations team collaborate with other departments within the organization?
Can you tell me more about the team structure and the role this position plays in supporting team goals?
What opportunities are there for cross-functional collaboration and professional development within this role?
Questions about Challenges and Opportunities:
What are some of the current challenges or opportunities facing the revenue cycle operations that you would like this role to address?
How does the organization typically approach process improvement and innovation within revenue cycle operations?
Are there any upcoming projects or initiatives within revenue cycle operations that this role would be involved in?
Questions about Company Culture and Values:
How would you describe the company culture here at [Company Name] and how does it support professional growth and employee satisfaction?
What qualities or attributes are most valued by the organization in its employees, especially in roles like the Revenue Cycle Operations Analyst?"

just for example, these are some i had written myself

i have a doc i'll reference during the interview via a split screen

[fringe sphinx]

No idea, don't know if it's ever come up.

[hearty island]

yea, r/FC does. i was thinking it might be interesting. although it would be tough to manage.

we don't want a #1051603408597024828 moment

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, one more tip: review your resume and be ready for questions about anything on it. If you have project ABC, be ready for questions like: "Tell me about ABC? What challenges did you have? How is it architected? etc"

[hearty island]

tell me about yourself, why this college/major, why'd you apply, what makes you the best fit, example qs like give a time

[crisp mantle]

Yas sure i just thought that it will be not that good project

[fringe sphinx]

Doesn't matter. Come up with a narrative about what you learned/etc.

[hearty island]

billybobby if you're ever in NY lunch is on me man

[hearty island]

narratives are all about the STAR format too. emphasize results and demonstrated skills

i'm paraphrasing from recursive here

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, also: research the company. Google them, look for reddit posts, look for any open source projects on github, etc.

[hearty island]

when i interviewed for rockefeller, i memorized the history of the entire firm and was able to tell them myself in a coherent couple of sentences

[crisp mantle]

Noted

[hearty island]

did some paraphrasing ofc, and not rote memorization.

[hearty island]

also lowk do your research on the interviewer

look them up on linkedin, see if there's anything you can connect w them on

i got past my third round at rockefeller bc the interviewer loved ⚽️ as much as me

[hearty island]

https://www.rockco.com/, ta da

[crisp mantle]

I want to learn these theory programming concepts

[hearty island]

ok i have to hit the gym, adios for now guys.

[crisp mantle]

Cause there is a technical oral round

[hearty island]

ask them questions back. don't just blindly answer. it's a trap.

[crisp mantle]

K bro

[hearty island]

ofc man, happy to help!!

[hearty island]

i'm serious, they dug deep to see if i knew what i was saying

[wanton lantern]

Good afternoon and happy Sunday lovely people. I hope to find you well and relaxed.

[hearty island]

you too my g

[hearty island]

I blame the fact that I was a non finance major from a non target school

that’s what fucked me over so much along with just bad interviews tbh

Like I had an interview with Pfizer and they tore me apart

[fringe sphinx]

Would love to hear stories about bad interviews. Like, what questions tripped you up.

[worthy moth]

I am very worried about ai takin over computer science and I really want to do it when I’m older and I’m getting into college right now for computer science. Anyone have any tips or what should I focus on more for the upcoming future?

[sleek charm]

London is big in finance, how can I make big money as a dev or should I work for a tech company instead

[hearty island]

Well for one the Pfizer interviewer asked me about technology chargebacks which I had no experience in.

Didn’t even mention it in the job description 😦

let’s see. Another interview for northwell was weird, they asked me what I disliked the most about my previous company

Oh and a lot of companies loved to ask why I was so intent on leaving my prior company as well, so I had to craft something very carefully as a response

[gritty rivet]

Be good at what you do and learn to keep learning. It doesn't matter if you do CS or some other technical field, this is the only thing anyone can do about AI

[gritty rivet]

Only you can answer this question. You'll be successful either way if you're persistent and focused

[sleek charm]

Yup thanks

[cinder fossil]

also depends on your current level. are you a student? new grad? established dev trying to break into finance? these things change the approach

[sleek charm]

Junior dev

How does it change the approach

I'm 18, I enjoy programming but I'm considering the hard work to money pay off ratio, if I'm not making a high income from software development and if it takes too long in comparison, then unfortunately I'll have to just leave and go into finance

I could probably use my coding skills for data science or something, maybe blockchain dev or quant

[hearty island]

whispers finance

quant is insane man, how's your math?

[peak halo]

you probably can't use your coding skills for data science, unless you get formal education related to data science, or you find another software development position that meaninglessly has "data scientist" as the title.

[sleek charm]

How do I get into finance as a python developer, what do I need to specialise in, what kind of work/life balance should I expect

Should I also learn C#/Java??

Ngl looking at these positions for London, finance definitely pays alot more than tech

[hearty island]

do you like accounting? it's the language of finance.

[sleek charm]

Nah my gf is doing a level 7 degree apprenticeship in accounting, I don't want to do that

She's mentally exhausted

[hearty island]

the reason i asked that is because finance requires being able to interpret financial statements and really understand the nuances. look up damodoran from NYU for example.

[hearty island]

i'm not saying however you need to become a pro at accounting or even CPA level. but you will defo need to understand them and how they flow.

lots of resources for you out there tho! check out edspira too.

this girl i went on a date with, she works at Goldman in IB. she was like damian, 95% of my day is spent digging in financial statements. so take that as you will.

[sleek charm]

Ye man, i have a friend in IB who works from 7am to 5pm and he's not allowed to touch his phone

[cedar wind]

Pls what career path can I choose in tech industry pls I need advise

[hearty island]

yep.

[sleek charm]

@hearty island thank you btw I appreciate your input

[hearty island]

any time man.

[fringe sphinx]

Wow, that's a funny trap question.

[hearty island]

they've asked me who my role model is to motivate me to get so much exp as an undergrad

[hearty island]

ofc they tried to trap me with a greatest weakness question too

[fringe sphinx]

I care too much.

[hearty island]

nah i say public speaking and then i emphasize all my internships and workshops i've done + classes from school to improve significantly

[fringe sphinx]

That's a great answer

[hearty island]

they find the honesty refreshing, really

bc public speaking was a genuine issue for me at some point, but i've become very extroverted

just by trying to talk

[cinder fossil]

if you have a university degree or are currently going to university it tends to be easier

a lot of finance companies like doing intern -> grad hire pipelines and the minimum prerequisite for the internship is always to be enrolled on a university course

[hearty island]

agreed

[bleak spoke]

so what are the skills I should pick up if I wanna earn money freelancing

[hearty island]

look at what clients on fiverr ask you to do

[bleak spoke]

I don't have any clients 🙉

[fringe sphinx]

that's why you need to look at fiverr

[hearty island]

get a sample

[bleak spoke]

u mean j look at what other ppl are selling?

[near ocean]

It'd be easier to skip the freelance obsession and go get a degree

[hearty island]

no, look at what possible clients are requesting. and i agree with mar on this one.

[bleak spoke]

yeah idw be in uni for 3+ years tho making no money for that time period

[hearty island]

a degree is the least path of resistance - recursive_error

[near ocean]

You'd rather make no money doing freelance?

[bleak spoke]

no I wanna make money asap 😭

[fringe sphinx]

Freelancing is small money. A campus job or local job will likely pay better money.

[hearty island]

bro do some cashiering, get soft skills

[summer roost]

many people get paid internships while in uni, and those internships are likely to pay much better than whatever you could make freelancing

[bleak spoke]

Nearly got a job at mcdonalds

[hearty island]

i got 6 internships in uni. you can do like 2 and you'll clutch something.

[bleak spoke]

damn ok, I hope I can convince my teacher to have me sign up for computer science cause he confidently said no last time

[vapid jay]

in 4 years?

[bleak spoke]

idk if self teaching python is a waste of time now tho career wise cause the only entry requirements is maths

[hearty island]

ye

[near ocean]

Its not a waste of time but dont put aside your grades for it

[vapid jay]

what are u talking about? which career has maths as the only requirement?

[bleak spoke]

i mean computer science degree, my teacher said I'm not gonna do it cause ppl who do it are doing maths all day

[vapid jay]

wtaf cs people do not even do pure math

[near ocean]

It depends, mine wasnt that maths heavy

[bleak spoke]

tbf my teacher is a humanities teacher lol

[summer roost]

CS is mostly math, but it's a different kind of math

[hearty island]

conceptual math-ish, idk how to describe it. applied math?

[vapid jay]

i'd say discrete math but dont wanna get ratioed

[bleak spoke]

man my plan keeps changing. I was thinking software engineering apprenteship or accounting apprenteship and now cs degree. I can't deceide 🙉

I def don't wanna do psych degree tho like my teacher suggests. Degree for ppl who can't or don't know anything else to do I've heard

[near ocean]

Are you in the UK? Apprenticeships are pretty competitive for software engineering

[bleak spoke]

yeah my dad told me accountning is prob better for that reason

[hearty island]

dude, accounting has a major shortage. major. you do accounting well, you're set.

[bleak spoke]

that sounds nice but Idk if its for me haha

[vapid jay]

ok guys wanted to ask this: which is an easier way to get publications? industry kinda research or open problem kinda research. i'd say industry kinda but then idk what weight does it have on grad applications?

[hearty island]

right, it's not for everyone.

[bleak spoke]

Idk cause I do a lot of maths and wanna do something maths y

[radiant vortex]

discrete is accurate

[vapid jay]

i wanna get into US T10 for my phd, i'm into algorithms and complexity. i have limited time and want to focus on one

[hearty island]

accounting is rules, tbh. it's not particularly mathy. you can do all the math with a basic financial calculator.

[summer roost]

as an undergrad? the only people I've heard of getting publications as undergrads are people with internships in research labs

[vapid jay]

i'll get one but i've to get started on my own before that...

[fringe sphinx]

https://spectrum.ieee.org/the-top-programming-languages-2023

[fringe sphinx]

Your teacher doesn't know what they're talking about, respectfully, if they're saying CS is all about math

[bleak spoke]

makes sense since he teaches classics and politics but tbf the entry requirements for uni here is just maths

[summer roost]

what do you mean by "get started on my own"? Like, publish before you start uni? or something else?

[fringe sphinx]

Entry requirements being math is correct: nobody expected cs students to know programming but it helps

[twilit portal]

Do accountants have to have degrees or are there certificates? Maybe a community college/trade school equivalent for accountants?

[bleak spoke]

Ok I guess I'll aim for cs degree and have apprentehip for accounting as a backup. idk if thats a good idea

[fringe sphinx]

Accountants usually have degrees, plus often CPA certs

(In USA)

[vapid jay]

nah like have problems and approaches on my own before i join a lab. wanna read papers and stuff. i dont know if i should focus on industry kinda research or not which is: making some projects better, optimising and deploying large scale stuff etc. - is it worth it? or should i purely focus on theory cs? i'd be happy to listen to previous admits having industry research. i'm asking this because large number of applicants do have a lot of papers and one or more of them is the above.

[hearty island]

at my school, they do 5 years of school + CPA

[bleak spoke]

also I gotta ask too, dyu think i can just self teach everything they teach u in uni for computer science, cause for maths (pre uni stage) im j self teaching like the majority of the content.

[hearty totem]

I'll be the devil's advocate here and say that you shouldn't. You are asking "who can tell me some work in which I can publish something", that is an oxymoron to publication. The hard thing about publishing is to have enough background knowledge in one specific area to know what problems have already been solved, and hence have a good guess which ones have not been solved yet

[twilit portal]

I'm just wondering how steep the degree requirements are, because a devjob without a degree is apparently very very difficult, don't know if it's the same for accountants or if just certification + skills has a decent chance
But maybe this is off-topic to ask about accounting jobs requirements here

[hearty totem]

That's why the internship at a lab helps. The lab is working in a very specific area. And hence the lab already has a list of things that can be worked inside that one specific area.

I could tell you the problems around chaos theory in need of publications. But that's about it. You kind of need to either get a good mentor (e.g. MSc, MPhil) or do a LOT of research by yourself about a very specific area. And you better like that specific area - otherwise your reaserch will just be a source of misery

[vapid jay]

i work in game theory and there are both industry and theory applications of that. i'm aware of both industry and theory approaches to it. i wouldn't say i'm expert but i wanna read more about whatever is going to help me for my grad application. idk which will. i will join a lab and get a mentor after a month but i also want to start some independent study. as of now i'm reading theory papers but idk i should be looking at industry work as well or not...

[near ocean]

Degrees arent that important in the UK, the certification is
I know chartered accountants with irrelevant degrees and no degrees

[twilit portal]

Thank you, I'll look into my region's laws and job postings

[bleak spoke]

wait isnt a degree the certification? whats the certification if they are different

[near ocean]

The certification is the ACA

Its long, it's hard, it's basically a degree

[sleek charm]

Ye people who work in the US don't really get it

[near ocean]

Dont get what

[sleek charm]

Degrees not being that important in the Uk

The integration of apprenticeship schemes are massive here, yet I still believe a degree is very useful

[near ocean]

This was about accountants, not software engineers

[sleek charm]

Yes ik

My gf does the acca l7 degree apprenticeship in accountancy

I'm looking for roles where I can use python for work like investment banking or anything in finance

[hearty totem]

Oh that's actually very promising. Please ignore my earlier skepticism. If there is one thing I myself would like to work in the realm of game theory it is Shapley Values. (Unfortunately I do not have enough time to work on that).

Shapley Values will soon become more and more used as no one has any decent ways to explain LLM reasoning rather than as game theory based sampling. I do believe that Shapley Values will become quite prevalent very soon. Yet there is no decent set of frameworks to compare different ways of calculating them.

Hence my take will be industry focus. Pretty soon there will be a crash of the (clueless 🙂 ) LLM industry on explainability and game theory can be one of the saviours. It will probably be a fast growing area in 2-3years. If you like game theory and are looking for direction you should def look into LLM result explainability by Shapley sampling. So many things to do there

[vapid jay]

okay, thanks a lot for this!!

[buoyant seal]

Cute. Java remains in the list 2nd for Spectrum and Trending, and 3d for jobs.
Technically SQL is not fully fledged language. So we can consider Java as 2nd for jobs too 😁

And top 1 then python in all positions 😅
Surprising that Jabbascript is not the first one. Only third. and in Spectrum is fifth.
Hmm, very high C++/C usage 🤔 how strange. Expected top list being occupied by some stuff like PHP, Ruby, Typescript, C# and other stuff like that

[vapid jay]

Guys Spain winsss😭🎺🥁

[sleek charm]

Ofc England lost 😂

[peak halo]

@vapid jay @sleek charm this channel is not for talking about sports

[vapid jay]

Ok sry

[sleek charm]

Nah bc I'm trynna find a career in sports using python. Now what?

I'm jk relax ☠️

[peak halo]

@sleek charm just keep in mind for the future that all your messages in this channel need to be on topic.

[sleek charm]

Will do Sir Stelercus 🫡

[thick widget]

Hello everyone, after the last feedback that i got here i changed my portfolio and i'm close to finish my resume and would like to get a feedback. I dont have college education or past professional experience as a programmer so idk if its better to remove the education section from the resume, i added blur on the contact personal info bc i believe this dont impact the review, but ofc the final resume/portfolio has the personal contact data
I'm trying to become a freelance programmer, so i put my past 3D Artist freelance experience on resume because i was thinking that could be interesting for it, my main knowledge are on python and data visualization tools, i also have knowledge on JavaScript and front-end if i dont get lucky on the Data Science environment i dont want to miss Full Stack opportunities, so i'm selling myself as a Data Analyst/Full Stack developer
The self-criticism I'm making rn is that I need to do more projects, I spent a lot of time on a single project that is popular and didn't spend much on others projects, and i believe for a person without college and past experience the first thing that people will see is the projects that i made, so maybe i should add my github on the resume? and also focus doing more projects? but what more...?
I take the feedback serious and always try to think about what people said and get better, so if you guys have professional experience and wanna to critique feel free to do.

[buoyant seal]

GitHub / or other git repo view will be asked for sure at least by me and within our company interviewing standard. This will be asked before a tech interview starts.

I interview for backend, DevOps stuff at least, and since back is part of full stack, then I will be watching code quality closely and using it to make a final decision for tech interview evaluation

[buoyant seal]

Anyone can write/claim they did projects with array of tech. But I saw how much nightmarish frontend pretty stuff can look, so I will not be fooling myself with presuming it has good internal code characteristics too. And secondly I will be needing seeing code for solid proofs it is indeed you who did it. Usually code has sufficient signs to recognize fraud (all fraud attempts of different types are rather simple visibly for progressionally coding software engineer at least, especially if he uses this language as one of his primary ones), if it is indeed written by you and belongs to you.

[buoyant seal]

and also focus doing more projects? but what more...?

My Evaluation will happen by your best project. Projects will be checked until the one with most time effort / code quality / feature richness is discovered. If for some reason different projects will win in different categories, only then multiple ones will be used.
That is at least what will be for software engineering, backend evaluation.

I like the best if project is actually built for audience and fulfills their desire. Or it is made with inspiration what u wished. Or it is used for yourself at least. Tldr: project has real world usability.
It can be useful dev tool, or smth for open source gaming community and etc

Secondly I check for internal characteristics as mentioned before

• Maintainability The ease with which you can modify a software system to change or add capabilities, improve performance, or correct defects.
• Flexibility The extent to which you can modify a system for uses or environments other than those for which it was specifically designed.
• Portability The ease with which you can modify a system to operate in an environment different from that for which it was specifically designed.
• Reusability The extent to which and the ease with which you can use parts of a system in other systems.
• Readability The ease with which you can read and understand the source code of a system, especially at the detailed-statement level.
• Testability The degree to which you can unit-test and system-test a system; the degree to which you can verify that the system meets its requirements.
• Understandability The ease with which you can comprehend a system at both the system-organizational and detailed-statement levels. Understandability has to do with the coherence of the system at a more general level than readability does.

For frontend freelancing devs I see a common trend having far more projects in portfolio, surprising in some way viewers

[buoyant seal]

For full stack/Frontend projects people will be taking more attention to external characteristics. Which I usually see with far far lower priority. If they significantly impact things, beyond code problems and decision to make in a bad quality was justified for some other gains, then the project can be seen very positively despite other issues.

External characteristics:

• Correctness: The degree to which a system is free from faults in its specification, design, and implementation.
• Usability: The ease with which users can learn and use a system.
• Efficiency: Minimal use of system resources, including memory and execution time.
• Reliability: The ability of a system to perform its required functions under stated conditions whenever required—having a long mean time between failures.
• Integrity: The degree to which a system prevents unauthorized or improper access to its programs and its data. The idea of integrity includes restricting unauthorized user accesses as well as ensuring that data is accessed properly that is, that tables with parallel data are modified in parallel, that date fields contain only valid dates, and so on.
• Adaptability: The extent to which a system can be used, without modification, in applications or environments other than those for which it was specifically designed.
• Accuracy: The degree to which a system, as built, is free from error, especially with respect to quantitative outputs. Accuracy differs from correctness; it is a determination of how well a system does the job it’s built for rather than whether it was built correctly.
• Robustness: The degree to which a system continues to function in the presence of invalid inputs or stressful environmental condition

[buoyant seal]

I spent a lot of time on a single project that is popular and didn't spend much on others projects,

As mentioned I will be exactly looking for such projects with most effort. Quality/time effort over quantity of projects.
Personally I would ignore all the time effort low array of projects almost completely. Because doing such stuff is common in online courses, including easier to steal work. They are having usually both low importance and can be ignored if they don't have your effort or soul behind them.

At the same time doing more than few projects is helpful if they push u to better quality (it helps starting from new and with different tech). If they push u to new stuff u could not do before. As long as they are meaningful and not for "abstract business in vacuum", they will be very interesting to me.

[deep sigil]

hi i'm new to this community i started learning python i have completed beginners course from youtube but now i don't know what to do like how to do self code or right code on my own what should i have to do

[sour iron]

Brainstorm ideas to do a small project to start with. Discuss it somewhere such as in #python-discussion to take suggestions, how to implement it... right ways, etc. And repeat 🔁

That's what you can do. Not sure if its the best thing to do in your scenario, but I'm sure others will have more to say here 🙂

[hearty island]

@fringe sphinx if i wanted to start a YT channel for interview stuff, what topics would you like to see?

like my own journey?

[fringe sphinx]

I'd suppose that any social media channel should be authentic: about your journey. Channels that just dispense advice without experience are hollow.

[hearty island]

i think a lot of people could relate to my journey tbh, so yea i agree

[fringe sphinx]

For sure, reminds me of this interaction I saw recently... one sec:

Watch this advice starting at around 7:10: https://youtu.be/SdBBFS8z3oE?feature=shared

This YouTuber was dispensing advice to an aspiring yt'er who asked them a question during their video.

(Also, yah, I watch a lot of food stuff)

[hearty island]

you ever check out mark wiens?

huge food yter

[hearty island]

my mom gave me the idea.

https://tenor.com/view/regular-show-my-mom-shirt-swing-trash-talk-bye-gif-5037821

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, interesting, no but looks good. I think social media may be a good long game for a career.

[hearty island]

fr

[hearty island]

i mean i've worked at companies of all sizes by now, even as an entry level

from startups to midsize, to fortune 500

spent a lot of time in the fortune 500 zone tbh

[hearty island]

now you understand why i left too lowk

fortune 500 pointed out to me that just bc a company is fortune 500, doesn't mean they give two shits about retaining people. i need career stability.

i need to pay off student loans and stuff

[fringe sphinx]

I don't really attribute this to company size, I've seen shitty behavior from small companies too and great behavior from fortune 500's, but I get your point

[hearty island]

ah, yea i also agree with what you're saying 🤝

[torpid birch]

Are companies valuing that much AWS knowledge at the moment? Almost every opening for DevOps or dev has AWS required

And also Jenkins, but that i need to learn

[regal axle]

Depends on what you are going to do of course.
But generally speaking, companies care that you know a cloud platform. If it be AWS, Google, or Azure, ,,, that is less important. And also, not every job requires cloud knowledge

[regal axle]

I see Jenkins mentioned every now and again. But it is never a requirement. Even if used in the tech stack, in general, the company expects you just learn it on the job. And knowing it before hand, is just a nice plus

[fringe sphinx]

What you're really asking is: "Should I learn AWS and Jenkins to land a job"... that's very different than: "Is AWS or Jenkins helpful for some/many jobs?".

Whether you should learn it depends on your background/experience and what type of job you want /e tc.

[buoyant seal]

few years ago i checked. AWS was twice more popular than GCP and Azure.
In general AWS is good default.
But if u are C# dev, then Azure is more potentially dominant for you due to tech stack combination.

[buoyant seal]

DevOps engineering community is heavily biased against Jenkins. This is outdated tech, a COBOL of DevOps world. Very in use regretfully but still pitifal due to being first generation of CI instruments and implementing first worst practices/approaches as first experimenting tool.
We prefer recommending Github Actions as default. Gitlab CI as possible fallback (but GH is more powerful by magnitudes due to marketplace of open source solutions)

[vapid jay]

Hey everyone, I am looking to buy keyboard, I have never bought one before, can anyone suggest me good keyboard? I will use it for programming

[peak halo]

This question belongs in an off topic channel

[umbral nymph]

hey everyone actually i want to apply for the admission in MIT, USA next year and I just want a brief description about the procedure and guidelines etc. please help

and Importantly, i belongs to india so please suggest the procedure as per abroad student

[white relic]

You should reach out to MIT's admissions department, they have people whose job it is to explain these things.
Googling "MIT international admissions" gave me this piece: https://mitadmissions.org/apply/firstyear/international/

[umbral nymph]

thank u so much

hey as I have read on this website , the requirements I need to get in MIT are almost matching but the one requirement of 2 years of any foreign language is something that is missing in my qualifications bcz my school do not offer any foreign language. so what should I do to counter this problem? or can I get admission in MIT inspite this.

and the other thing I want to ask is that it is written on the website that apploicant can apply after high school.in my country(India), high school means 10th grade but we have to finish till 12th grade to apply for any university. so i want to ask that In USA, high school means 12th grade or 10th grade.

[torpid birch]

I assume they are asking for jenkins knowledge because they already have everything in place and don't want to change it no?
I am a python dev, tho i think i will be focusing myself on the whole DevOps thing instead of full on developer

[gritty rivet]

Yes, in the US high school normally means grades 9-12.

BTW you may want to contact these folks: https://www.usief.org.in/USIEF-Centers.aspx

[deft herald]

Since you're from India i'm assuming you have a native language other than English. Where did you take English? I'm sure that would count..

[umbral nymph]

yeah i have hindi as my native language and even i am learning german from duolingo but it did not give any certificate or something after completing it.

[deft herald]

I would think you should get a pass for that specific requirement if you're already fluent in 2 languages. They should let you test out of it at least

[deft herald]

What do you want to ask me? I don't accept DM's from people i don't know

[umbral nymph]

sir i will not disturb you by asking stupid questions but i just want to be in contact with you so that I can ask my questions or doubts from you related to this.if you allow sir?

[deft herald]

Just ask them here

You're guaranteed a much faster response because you're asking towards a wider audience. I'm just one guy that can't respond to discord pings all day

[umbral nymph]

ok

[umbral nymph]

does a person have to give interview to get into MIT

[deft herald]

I would think so

[shy sigil]

@fringe sphinx #python-discussion message What difference does it make if the things they knew had nothing to do with the role they're applying for

[fringe sphinx]

I think I'm "good" at my job because of my diverse experience.. much of which has nothing directly to do with my job.

[shy sigil]

Like doing pygame because they were simply interested in it and doing some rust then applying for a web dev job. They wouldn't be any different than the people who did nothing those years from my perspective
And they certainly wouldn't be as well paid as the ones who did web dev for those years from my logical standpoint

I see

[fringe sphinx]

I have two sets of somewhat contradictory opinions here:

The first is that: breadth is more important than depth for a beginner. Knowing a little about a lot of things is important.

But, the second is that: to get truly "good" at programming, it requires achieving some level of depth / expertise (dare I say: mastery) of some skill.

[shy sigil]

wouldn't that advice be for becoming the average SWE? Does the average SWE get well paid? What about you, would you prefer having domain knowledge for the role or doing pygame and rust
Again these are all questions, I'm sorry if they come off as implying anything, I'm just trying to get my points across and my doubts a bit cleared

[fringe sphinx]

Learning lots of programming languages tends to hurt someone from getting to some sufficiently deep level of expertise.

[fringe sphinx]

So, to your example: someone who learned pygame and rust is going to be much more "mature" (programming wise) than someone who did nothing.

[shy sigil]

sure but why would a company hire that person over someone who more so knows what they're doing for the web dev role

[fringe sphinx]

I wish I had a more succinct answer here... domain expertise (by job seekers) is overrated at the entry/beginner level.

[shy sigil]

thanks for your time by the way

im just feeling insecure about not having done any employable work

and i dont want to end up the same as everyone else who are.. not being narcissistic here but - the same kind of programmer as me, the people who never programmed for the years that i did, but instead did more employable/fashionable work one year before employment which may have seemed brighter to the relevant companies

[white relic]

I think I'd phrase it as: people who learn lots of programming languages tend to do so at the expense of depth.
(agree with the advice)

[fringe sphinx]

I guess I'm curious to see your resume. I imagine with the right phrasing, you can show your competency.

(redacted of course)

[shy sigil]

i dont have a proper one but i made this modal text editor recently i guess
#editors-ides message
also participated in some game jams - https://blankriot96.itch.io/

[smoky quest]

Because people rarely do the same thing over and over and over and over for 40 years.
Imagine you had to build the same website in the same domain every day since you were born? Wouldn't that be boring?

On top of that, a diverse set of experience gives you the tools to solve various problems. That's why the fundamentals of CS are so important.
Anyone can pick up webdev in an afternoon, not so much for the theory and various domains

[fringe sphinx]

++ also, a lot of AIML and Web projects have very little depth to them. Sure, anyone can crap out a flask app or pytorch project with little understanding/etc.

[fringe sphinx]

Are you looking for a job right now?

[shy sigil]

im entering undergrad in a month, so ill be looking in 4 years

[fringe sphinx]

Oh. Then yah, just set a goal of doing at least one meaningful project each year

You'll be looking sooner than in 4 years. besides internships, your job search begins far earlier than graduation.

[smoky quest]

There are areas of CS you don't even know they exist yet!
So don't hyper specialize now as you may get into a rabbit hole you either do not enjoy or would not enjoy as much

[shy sigil]

i guess you're right, once im in uni ill hopefully have more context about college placements and other ways of getting jobs i guess

[pine sleet]

yeah uni will open a lot of doors for you

[shy sigil]

i do want a good job though, not just any job
most people get placed for like 3-4LPA here in my college afaik, i dont want that, there are also many people who get 25LPA and i feel like i should be included - even if not through placements through other means

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I meant the cynical "learning languages just to put them on your resume" approach.

[fringe sphinx]

imo, you get a good job by being prepared for a wide range of opportunities. To quote Pasteur: Chance favors the prepared mind.

[shy sigil]

😩 i guess what happens will happen, ill see what things are possible once im in uni and do my best

[regal axle]

Man, getting to the end of the process with one company. Really stressed. Worried I will do / say something and mess everything up.
I know I am just in my head. But still stressed things will fall at the final mile

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, labelling the negative thoughts is helpful. Look on positive side, it's like a lottery ticket: you have a chance of getting something you don't have. It's nice to envision winning it. But, it's also out of your control for a multitude of reasons.

[regal axle]

Especially as the options start narrowing down; it makes it all the more stressful when dealing with the company that I am doing well with + like the most.

"what if they also reject me"

Yea, it is just hard to apply while being deep into interviews with companies. I try to assume good outcomes, not bad ones. And so activly applying while activly interviewing goes against that mentaility

Its more like, idk what I am going to do if they don't give me an offer. Or if said offer is really bad.
I might be being too desperate. And all the issues associated with that. But I really want to just move on and just start working on the next thing

[wheat abyss]

guys how to make good ui for python

i can link css wiht python

[regal axle]

It is a mentalitly thing. Envision success and whatnot. I prepare for the worst, sure. But I still hope for the best.
You could argue that being in the mind of failure, does have downsides. But that is outside the scope of this conversation.

I also don't like acting in bad faith. If I am bullish on a company, I want to give them the full chance

[regal axle]

Wrong channel. #python-discussion.

[alpine blaze]

Hi everyone, I just finished my CS degree a few weeks ago, and I have about 6 to 7 months before I start the job search. Python seems pretty big in the fields I'm interested in, so I'm going through the paces with it.

I'm working on portfolio, my github etc. Does anyone have a good example github page of what I should be shooting for to show potential hiring personnel?

[deft herald]

Why start in 6-7 months and not now? It might take you that long to find something...

[alpine blaze]

without getting too personal - I don't really have to work, but I want too.

and I have obstacles to learning, thanks to the military. The more prepared I can be before I land a job, the less idiotic I'll look while learning new stuff at the company.

[deft herald]

What a coincidence. I don't really want to work but i have to

[alpine blaze]

Trust me, I would much rather be in your shoes than dealing with all the body and brain stuff that the military left me with.

[deft herald]

Well you already have a cs degree right? Best to get a job when it's fresh IMO - a lot of "new grad" positions have a specific window for valid graduation dates in order to be considered

[alpine blaze]

oh shoot, I did not know that.

guess I have other stuff to look into today. Thanks!

[fringe sphinx]

Besides projects/etc, one suggestion is to watch conference videos. It's a good way of broadening your knowledge with current state of the art topics: https://www.youtube.com/@PyConUS/playlists

[alpine blaze]

oooh good idea, I didn't think about that, thank you!

[white relic]

Frame challenge: Envision multiple good offers and being able to select the best one.
Expecting success with only one company at a time is insufficiently optimistic.

[regal axle]

Yea; I was in talks with multiple at once. And now some are backing out. And it just puts stress that the one I actually care about will also back out.
Mind you, these talks were very accelerated. Generally, if it was over the course of a month, I would be applying to more places at the same time. But I only have so many hours to do new job search stuff. Be it interviews / test / whatever.

[white relic]

Ah, yeah, that's a bit rough.

[hearty island]

i dropped out of the race for Nomura because i accepted another offer. wanted to give another candidate a chance.

[white relic]

Dropping one opportunity because you already accepted another is different from focusing on one at a time when you don't know if it will work out.

[hearty island]

yep! i signed the offer letter and did the background check. they'll send the i9 and that'll be it.

[white relic]

That's great!

[hearty island]

thanks trent :). looks like my hard work paid off.

[hearty island]

did you see my depressing sankey diagram?

[white relic]

I must have missed it. Haven't been very active recently

[white relic]

Nice.
(not nice)

[hearty island]

LMAOOO

[white relic]

How long a time frame does this roughly cover?

[hearty island]

as of july 2023

[white relic]

So about a year?

[hearty island]

yessir. thank god i started early.

[hearty island]

people thought i was crazy for applying so early. so did my parents. lmao.

[true harness]

well, you should try to plot rejections over time :P. see how many of them came when you were a year early 😛

[hearty island]

true i don't have the time series data tho 😦 that would be a really cool project

[deft herald]

4000 apps in 1 year is nuts

[hearty island]

hahaha, yea.

[deft herald]

Did you really apply to ~10 unique jobs every single day?

[hearty island]

i was saving like 20 jobs a day and just applying and applying and applying via linkedin

[deft herald]

wild

[hearty island]

https://tenor.com/view/confused-white-persian-guardian-why-gif-10312546 people ask me for tips and i'm like

i do my best to help people now

[thick widget]

thank you for the feedback, i'll think more about all the topics you listed and try to improve my skills on them

[stiff basalt]

Is it hard to land a game programming job in the US with an associates degree in CS?

[hearty island]

yep

[stiff basalt]

Damn would it be easier to outreach to other country's?

[hearty island]

idk about that chief. why not do your bachelor's degree in CS?

[stiff basalt]

I only get 2 years of free college with fnancial aid 4 would put me in debt

[hearty island]

ah.

[gritty rivet]

Zero debt and no prospects of employment isn't necessarily better than moderate debt and a worthwhile degree. There's almost certainly a way you could finish the degree without unreasonable debt. Are you in the US?

The game industry specifically does make it hard though. It's probably the most competitive and underpaid

[stiff basalt]

i am in the u.s

the game industry is very competitive although i thought it was due to the high pay

[near ocean]

Its not due to high pay

[stiff basalt]

i see

[regal axle]

Actually the opposite. Companies take advantage of people's passion and excitement for games. Not all companies. But the games industry does it more than most all others

[near ocean]

You should finish your degree regardless of debt, tech jobs pay enough for uni loans not to matter

My student loans in the UK affect me way more than they would you in the US

[stiff basalt]

true, but that being said you mentioned gamedev not paying a whole lot would it be better to stick with software engineering

[regal axle]

Stick with what you like. In the long run, this tends to make you more successful

[near ocean]

Game dev is software engineering, your degree applies to pretty much all software related industries

[stiff basalt]

understood

[regal axle]

Man, I really have not been this stressed and over thinking as I am right now; probably in my whole life. Idk why. I mean,,, I do. But it normally doesn't get to me like this.

[stiff basalt]

what are you thinking about?

[regal axle]

Just getting to the end game with one company for getting a job. And just overthinking about all the ways for things to fall through at the last step(s).

Part of it is that if this falls through, I don't want to have to go through more months of waiting. This is likely the biggest cause of stress in this situation

[stiff basalt]

Some times its a good thing to overthink especialy in tech related jobs you want to be prepared. theres a saying if you think to hard you will over think and think to little you will make mistakes and be unprepared i would rather be over prepared then under prepared

[regal axle]

Nah, not that type of overthinking.

[stiff basalt]

hm

I see your worried they will decide on not hiriing you correct?

[regal axle]

That. Or they give me a super low ball offer. Basically the same thing

[modest delta]

hi

I can make a remote desktop image with the Python vidstream module, but I cannot control it with the mouse. How can I do it? Can you help me?

[near ocean]

No and stop spamming the channels

[thick widget]

i still accepting more portfolio/resume feedbacks if you guys are free to do

[gritty rivet]

If you actually somehow can't get a traditional degree from a state school without an excessive load of debt (I would say under $50k is not that excessive) then there're places like WGU which are extremely affordable

[stiff basalt]

Well best to not make yourself seem desperate instead make it seem like losing you is like losing a big time shot employee don't act in desperation.