career-advice

[balmy spade]

I try not to be nihilist with grades. I have my own opinions but folks work their arses off and accomplish rather impressive results. Hard to express both, ya know?

[smoky quest]

outcomes compound.
Doing great now means you get more opportunities and better chances in HS, which then means even better opportunities and chances for the best colleges, which means even better opportunities and chances for your career, etc.

[balmy spade]

A similar angle to view it from: The habits and disciplines you build now will compound as the years roll forward.

[true harness]

slightly different perspective: you have a lot of time to get your act together if your grades aren't great. middle school doesn't matter much, but if you fall behind, you will stay behind unless you do extra work to catch up

[vapid jay]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[oak spear]

what the hell is that? lol

[vapid jay]

One message removed from a suspended account.

One message removed from a suspended account.

[balmy spade]

It's a FIGlet font (ascii art) and not on topic for this channel.

[true hatch]

can a mild infraction keep you from getting in school?

[oak spear]

depends on the school

[true hatch]

just saying i don't have any crime under my name

fo' the feds watching this

[oak spear]

most schools will not do a background check. they just base admissions on academics

[shy sigil]

So for those of you who professionally work as data scientists, how much actual math do you do on your job? I mean real pen and paper type math, integration, vectors, calc type shit.
And how much code do you write relative to that, is it more "logic" than math once you start working?

I get that theory and analyzation might be the bigger part of the job, but is that math or data science theory?

[north rune]

How can I find summer internships?

without using indeed/linkedin, I noticed my chances are significantly lower when using linkedin/indeed since I'm trying to get into the industry

[rare coral]

Depending if you are in University, ask professors, then you have much better chances. If your still in school, knowing someone at a company is always a good extra. But linked in etc can also work if you have a sophisticated github for example

[north rune]

What if I am not in a university?

[rare coral]

Good github with your private projects for example. I study electrical engineering but have a software dev student job. They asked me in particular of a github and afterwards one of the interviewers told me that a good github is so much more valuable in software jobs than anything on your cv or grades. But obviously no guarantee(and just my experience probably other ppl who work in software mainly have other tips)

[white relic]

The vast majority of employers are not going to look at your github when screening résumés.

Studies agree with my anecdotal evidence. There are a lot of applicants to any tech job/internship at a company people want to work at. You get maybe 40 seconds of eyes on the résumé before most of them go in the bin.

It can matter but only after you've passed the early stage filter, which is where most people struggle. If you aren't getting callbacks it isn't because of your github.

[hasty cobalt]

can someone calculate the area of the vector when we know the point(x,y) of the lelf down corner and the vector (u,v) of right up corner and 1 square is 1

like this picture, also this squares overlays the other one

[hybrid bough]

4 squared???? on the square

6 squared on fat rectangle

3 squared on skinny rectangle

[hasty cobalt]

yea

this is 1 square, 2 rectangulars

[gritty rivet]

You're not in university but want to land a summer internship of some kind? I'd guess your odds of success with that are extremely low. At least here in the US, no idea where you might be

We hire our interns from Handshake,.so you might try there

[hot bison]

your certainly better then me, max i can do is a calculator

[stark kite]

sometime i do project already made but its okay its just funny for me to remake stuff at the moment i don't know before i have the idea someone already made yk

[shrewd parrot]

im from usa but im asking for my friend he is in Pakistan and has 3+ years of experience smart dude

[wild goblet]

anyone learning blockchain after learning python

[white relic]

This channel is for career discussion, so if you have a question about careers, feel free to ask.
If you need help with some other question involving Python and blockchain, see #❓｜how-to-get-help

My company doesn't have as many stages (we also don't attract as many applications, largely because of location). But the ratios seem believable

[shrewd parrot]

this happens a lot lol

[buoyant seal]

Life is too short to rust. We better to go quickly instead 😁 jk

[cedar plover]

I'm finishing up my ba degree in cs but it's so hard to get an internship in programming. My interest is in robotic so what certification should I get that's most useful to do robotics

[peak halo]

I don't think there is any certification that has any value for robotics.

[mystic violet]

Anyone here do front end development as a freelancer?

[fierce quiver]

will u get job if uk python without any degree? lol

[leaden jasper]

this message explains it nicely: #career-advice message

[strong dust]

If you are interested in machine learning, then i think you should look into Reinforcement Learning.
There are a lot of applications around the field of robotics as far as RL goes

[kindred oyster]

i think you should try to make some pretty good projects

[strong dust]

check out machine learning collective https://discord.com/channels/785992161132806174/981295569198805053

[frigid umbra]

😭

[rare coral]

But like wtf doesnt this company bas to be like really big? I thought in Software development its also fine ish to get a job, electrical engineering you'd never have to fight with 3k other ppl about a position... damn

[rare coral]

i guess so, maybe also because coding is somewhat reachable to a very low level and can be done with just any computer at hand, and something like electrical engeneering isnt so accesable

[white relic]

Software engineering is a young discipline. It doesn't have the history behind it to have accumulated as much institutional knowledge, best practices and learned-from mistakes as other engineering disciplines.
Give it 100 more years.

[rare coral]

i see makes sence, but people may confuse it as easy once there are people who get into it a little bit

[rare coral]

also true

[white relic]

tbh we're already starting to see the demise of the self-taught SWE. It's not like it was in the 90s/early 00s.

[silver citrus]

Is there a channel that has any good resources for learning python for data engineering?

[buoyant seal]

Software engineering indeed does look approachable.
But somehow very low amount of people possess necessary soft skills to pursue this career.
U need to have things like aptitude to solve computer problems (with intuition where to go next), u need to have stubbornness to keep going, u need to have resilience to encountered errors and frustrations, u need to be able communicating with other people, u need to be an archaeologist of finding necessary info.
Those are all small requirements kind of... But the biggest separator is probably in that it takes a lot of time (years) to get good.
And to get good u highly preferably need CS degree, so that people would see you as a good investment to become part of a team.
Like... It is hard getting good for career job in software development without having any developed skills.

So... It does all look kind of easy as all of this stuff is in your mind... But amount of effort is kind of very similar to becoming scientist/mathematician. Not everyone is willing to put this amount of time into their career path, and not everyone has aptitude to even like it.
And liking this stuff is very necessary in order to keep going thorough multidays problems smoothly, every day and keeping going for years.

We can say additionally that some dev paths have low requirements, but they can have also low salary and low level of career satisfaction

[shrewd parrot]

my pakistani friend is asking me for remote oppourtunites, he is a good dev where do i show him the way i am now sure how outsiders can work remotely from pakistan anyone have any suggestions?

[shrewd parrot]

he said mostly the job will say remote but it will be region locked, either remote from the city or with in the state he is a good dev but he is making peanuts in Pakistan I dont want his talent to waste

[shrewd parrot]

okay i will pass it on to him

he also has appian certification

Thank you I will share this with him.

How much experience do you have?

and where are u looking for a job

hahaha so no one is getting what they want amazing

[near ocean]

Such is life

[normal silo]

is anyone a python tutor

[strange pumice]

Lol

[fringe sphinx]

"Like how big tech looks for big tech XP and startup looks for startup XP": I've never seen this to be true.

[normal silo]

i am looking for a python tutor who is good with docker and JSON, API requests

[near ocean]

I've seen startups ask for previous startup experience, not highly corporate places tho

[smoky quest]

start -> bigtech is super common

[fringe sphinx]

I think you're making some big assumptions. I know lots of people who went big -> small, and small -> big. I went big->small->big->small myself.

[fringe sphinx]

Or perhaps that big tech is swimming in resumes right now, and you'll get really low response rates regardless?

[lost cypress]

are you from switzerland

i was thinking about going there this summer for vacation

[tough kestrel]

What projects should i build to get knowledge for python programming jobs

Like what do employers seek from python programmers

[hybrid shale]

some help here
im try to deploy my project
in pythonanywhere.com
and have error
TemplateDoesNotExist at /
base.html

[restive iris]

Anyone need anything done? I need a way to make $400

[kindred oyster]

!rules paid

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[restive iris]

Damn

Does anyone know how to get licenses for pentesting

[smoky quest]

none of these matter, especially if you are in a tech area

[true hatch]

Today I got an 80%, or 21/26 on my math exam. Im not sure how to react. I saw my classmates get higher grades than me.

[peak halo]

what year of school are you, and what level of math are you taking?

[true hatch]

7th grade, normal level math

[umbral frigate]

Well you don't really have to worry that much.

What matters more is your work practices. If you can keep a good streak of study habits, then you should be fine for when it matters most.

[true hatch]

Im pretty jealous of my classmates

[umbral frigate]

Don't be. Always compare yourself to past versions of yourself, never to other people.

[peak halo]

if you're interested in a career as a developer, I recommend that you prioritize math, so that you can start calculus before you finish high school.
also, literally nothing that happens in 7th grade will matter in a few years. like literally nothing.

[kindred oyster]

some jealousy is good
it can act as a speeding agent for you to do better

[umbral frigate]

If you've improved, then celebrate that and continue with the hard work. If you didn't do as well as you would have liked, then keep that in mind when you study.

[true hatch]

Which math should i learn before CS

[umbral frigate]

As James Clear, the author of Atomic Habits said (paraphrased), one percent improvements can go a long way.

[drifting pawn]

fwiw I still remember getting a D on a quiz in 8th grade, while the rest of the class was getting A's and I seem to be doing quite well in maths in undergraduate studies ^_^

[true harness]

i agree. calculus is the most important math course to have taken in terms of college admissions, according to admissions people. (whether or not it is useful is different)

[true hatch]

But, math rn is not that bad, I currently have 87% average (highest i've had this year) (tyler the creator is hitting rn)

[peak halo]

calculus. you can learn the rest while you're in CS school. if you don't finish a year of calculus before you finish high school, they might not even let you into the CS program until you do.

but you're very young, and there's too much pressure on young people to have their whole future career planned out. maybe you'll want to pursue CS. doing well in school will keep your options open.

[kindred oyster]

dont gauge math knowledge just based on marks , they can be deceiving

make sure you understand the concepts , those are more important

[true harness]

an absolute requirement for calculus is pretty rare though. usually it is recommended to have calculus, but not required

[true hatch]

My life is filled with pressure

[kindred oyster]

pretty sure every CS course will involve calc in some for or another , so it is like an indirect requirement

[true harness]

for graduation, sure. not for admission. though i am speaking about the US

[peak halo]

for the university I attended, applicants to the CS program who hadn't taken calc1 or equivalent in high school were immediately rejected.

[true hatch]

My legs hurt, bc of track practice.

[true harness]

how do you know?

[peak halo]

the admissions counselor told me.

[true harness]

huh. yikes. what if it wasn't available to them

[true hatch]

Can I learn it right now?

[kindred oyster]

well it depends on how you are going for the admission

if you are going through an entrance exam (which is the common way here in india) , they will involve some fairly dense math (including calc)

[peak halo]

one could still be admitted to the university in general, but you wouldn't be able to declare a major within the engineering school or take any engineering (including CS) courses until you had.

[umbral frigate]

It should be fine if you just follow along with the school curriculum, because it's not a trivial topic.

[true hatch]

My school is full of crap, their teaching method is incredibly old school. My school is worst than the school in Captain Underpants.

[peak halo]

I would stick to the math your school is making you learn right now. because even if you "learn calculus on your own right now", it doesn't matter unless you take calculus in school.

[true hatch]

But, im transferring to another school next year. There's a robotics program

[peak halo]

since your sub-captain underpants school won't tell you this: you were supposed to use "their" in that sentence. "their" is for posession (like "my" or "his") you only use "they're" if it's "they are".

[true hatch]

Ima confront that one teacher at the end of the year, I will tell him a piece of my mind.

[peak halo]

Don't do it. Bridges are better left unburned.

[true hatch]

but he burned mine

[true harness]

that's honestly quite shocking to me. what school, if you don't mind sharing?

[peak halo]

you can figure it out from looking through my github

[pine sleet]

my university does this too

but its for all engineering freshman not just people who haven't taken calc 1

[peak halo]

that is, no new entrant to the university can be part of the engineering school during their first semester, or what?

[pine sleet]

first two semesters yeah

or three, if you fail an initial math placement exam

[peak halo]

what about transfers? (especially those with associates degrees?)

[true hatch]

I remember the time I punched my school chromebook's screen because an email didn't send.

[pine sleet]

doesn't apply to them, they can transfer directly into the college of engineering

[peak halo]

hopefully you've learned better stress management skills?

[pine sleet]

but also you need a 3.75 cumulative GPA at the end of your first two semesters to get into CS, which weeds out a lot of people

[true hatch]

guess so

how long is a maters degree?

[zealous trellis]

almost sounds like the digital divide

[true hatch]

does a 4.0 gpa mean you have 100% on every assignment?

[pine sleet]

no

it means you have an A in all your classes

[true hatch]

ohhh

[pine sleet]

but tbh with the way college classes work you can get like 70s on exams and still pass with an A

[true hatch]

Why are teachers such assholes? They are so mean.

[wheat hatch]

I don't think I have ever been asked about my grades in a job interview, ever

They are that important

[true hatch]

teachers are such idiots, they get paid nothing and they went to college

[zealous trellis]

relax it's just 7th grade right?

[true hatch]

yeah?

[drifting pawn]

perhaps yours are, but there are a lot of teachers out there that are great people and do it because they love helping other people learn

[zealous trellis]

high school will definitely be better

[true hatch]

Am I? you're mad delsuional. You a teacher?

[zealous trellis]

i can attest to this, not all of them are bad

[true hatch]

well, hope teachers have fun get paid nothing

[true harness]

maybe if they were paid better, the smart people would want to teach instead of getting paid 4 times as much elsewhere

[kindred oyster]

everything is not about getting money all the time

people do certain things for reasons , some of them might actually enjoy teaching kids , that might bring them happiness even if they get paid less , maybe some teachers dont have option other than teaching, or there can be any other reason 🤷‍♂️

but how does that make them asshole ?

[drifting pawn]

I mean life also isn't all about getting paid, one of the best cs teachers I ever had sold a company and was semi-retired and taught for fun

[wheat hatch]

Haha nope

[true hatch]

They ruin my day, I can't trust them.

[kindred oyster]

then dont trust them 🤷‍♂️

[true hatch]

great idea

[kindred oyster]

in the internet age , you are not limited to only school for learning

there are tons and tons of resources online as well that you can use and learn from

[zealous trellis]

we need more teachers like this, my cs teacher spent several hours with me to help me with my semi pythonic code

[true hatch]

my teachers are very bad at teaching, I don't learn anything

[drifting pawn]

then learn it yourself

[zealous trellis]

^ if you don't believe you're learning enough, then use the internet

[kindred oyster]

if you dont like your teacher or dont understand what they teach and there is nothing you can do about it

just go to some online resoruce , like khan academy , and learn on your own

[true hatch]

My last day im going to press my teacher

[kindred oyster]

it seems that you are more interested in getting revenge on your teachers than learning

[drifting pawn]

focus on your learning, there's nothing to gain by hating your teachers, even if some of them are truly horrible (which some will be)

[wheat hatch]

There's lots of other issues in education besides the salary. You got bureaucratic bs from the ministry of education, idiot parents with their idiot kids. I would lose my mind if I had to deal with that 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, for years and years. No thank you. Hell I wouldn't even consider it if it were double my current salary.

[true hatch]

Class clowns are goated though

[kindred oyster]

you will meet lots of terrible people , teachers at all stages , high school , college , uni , work

if all you did is blame them and not actually work around them , you wont go very far

[true hatch]

some of them wont get of my d

[deft herald]

I have a good friend who was a high school coach for years. He always said the worst part by far is dealing with the parents

[meager rose]

[brave swallow]

say if i do data operator job for 6 months does it make me a strong applicant for entry level data analyst?

[smoky quest]

not really

[brave swallow]

From what i know data operator im simple terms is responsible for entering correct data in database and data analyst makes use of the database

[brave swallow]

im a freshgraduate and want to be either in web development or data analyst path so my resume and skill im developing is focused on web technology and DBMS altho its still basic since i have no work experience yet

so im applying to jobs that are either web dev or data analyst

[smoky quest]

nice!

[brave swallow]

in trying to see if doing data operator is a wise choice then change to data analyst after a couple of months or when the contract ends

[smoky quest]

entering data manually doesn't have much in common with data analysis

[brave swallow]

yes but hm....

my other reason is i need to have my first job so i can put something on my resume as actual experience even tho its not really that relevant to the path im going (also i kinda need the money)

[smoky quest]

I mean, that may sound tautological, but if you want to be a data analyst, then look for entry level data analyst jobs

[kindred oyster]

or even normal internship in similar IT field like web dev or anything

[brave swallow]

yes im still doing that i was just curious if applying to these kinds of jobs is a good choice while also applying for web dev and data analyst

[kindred oyster]

data entry operator is very different from data analyst

[upbeat inlet]

bomb

[brave swallow]

lmao why i never thought of that im dumb af

[smoky quest]

From an employer's perspective:

• The fact you took a non-data analyst job means you were not able to pass interviews and find a job. So that means you aren't good and worth talking to and I will reject your resume
• I have thousands of great applicants for each job. Your non related jobs don't demonstrate any skills on your side related to what I am hiring for

[brave swallow]

that makes alot of sense

[smoky quest]

don't get me wrong though, if you are short on cash and close to get thrown in the street, any job is better than being homeless. It comes down to priorities

because I and people in my network have extremely relevant experience for decades

[brave swallow]

i just wanted some extra cash but not that short to sacrifice my long term career so ill focus on relevant jobs for now

i lowkey hate job posts that redirects me to their company website that requires to create an account so i can submit an application

[smoky quest]

it all depends how it's presented and done.
Assuming you just graduated and could not find a job, you would understand the optics wouldn't be great.

That said, if you find a job at starbucks and omit it on your resume while you search for a real job, then no one would fault you

[nimble cipher]

Hi all,

I did BSc in mathematics and I plan to study computer science but it is not possible currently as I can’t afford it.
Just for the sake of learning and gaining experience, I’m ready to do any kind of internship or any kind of job in this field for free. I’m a quick learner and I enjoy learning. I’m ready to learn everything and everything required in the shortest amount of time possible. I’ll work hard and won’t disappoint you. Please consider me in case you’ve got something.

Thanks.

[brave swallow]

good thing I asked for advice here

[smoky quest]

no, this is very naive.
15 years ago, it would mean something (and that's still highly debatable). But nowadays, where company like google have literally tens of thousands of engineers, they cannot by definition have the top 1% of engineers. The brand is very much diluted.
So much diluted that it's common to hear that these are places where engineers go to retire.

[brave swallow]

you can try job sites, i dont think discord can offer you anything

[smoky quest]

Hi,
We don't allow ads here.

too many people don't know what they are talking about

would you love to work with managers who reacted to these resumes?

it's pretty literal

would you love to work for a manager who loves the fact you worked on an infrastructure using react for AI on blockchain?

(to be fair, I would either ignore it, or call back just for giggles and get in on the fun)

right and that goes back to my point. When a company has literally 60k+ engineers, they cannot, by definition, only have the top 1%. There are a lot of morons

proving the existence of idiots does not disprove best practices

[brave swallow]

its crazy how employers on my coutry offer below minimum wage for a entry level web dev job night shift

[smoky quest]

and nothing new btw. See for instance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilbert#Management

it does matter to idiots

I assure you that the teams that do matter in these companies would not fall for that

[brave swallow]

well in my country it does. From what i hear people who worked in international companies in my country gets a call right away for job application

[shy sigil]

The better the job the better the hiring process, and consequently the less they will look at "ex-big-company employee" as a differentiator

[smoky quest]

I know plenty of people in these companies. I know people who got in as well and who should not have gotten in. There is a lot of space in 60,000 employees for great engineers and not so great engineers

your grandma and uneducated people being impressed with the word google is not necessarily correlated with actual professionals being impressed or not with that word.
I assure you that people who have a great resume and no google experience, will still have no issue getting the right attention

[kindred oyster]

I dont think they are trying to validate if "google has top 1% employees" statement is correct or not.

what they are saying is , that stamp still holds value even if the reason for it might not be true in today's time

[smoky quest]

I am just fighting superstition

[smoky quest]

this is also a very different point of view if you live in a tech area of outside of it

I understand you may think this way being from outside a tech area. But for people who live and breathe it, that's a different experience

[kindred oyster]

i would say that the recruiters who might give a lot of weight to this thing arent worth applying for anyway 🤷‍♂️

[smoky quest]

given how close are the main FAANG campuses along with their centers of power, there is a strong argument for it

yep, you do you and what's best for you.
You are free to ignore others' opinions

related, some cool map: https://siliconmaps.com/silicon-valley-map/

That is just for the most prominent companies. There are 1000x more startups

well, how soon can we make it happen?

sure, and some things that are often neglected are:

• Everyone and their neighbors and spouses are in a tech company. That is a huge network effect
• It's super common for someone to work for google and then apple and then some startup and then go back to a faang, etc.
• There is a big flow between startups to have fun and then faang to rest after being acquired. So there is no issue going from startups <-> faang

both of our views can be correct at the same time. That's also why I have prefixed a few of my sentences with "in a tech area"

I have no doubt that the further you are from a tech center, the more a faang name could carry

yeah and that's great!
But it's also a different thing. Neither better nor worse, just a different experience.

As another example, because engineers tend to make similar salaries and directors tend to make similar salaries, and VPs tend to make similar salaries, it also means they often live in their respective areas.
So you may have the VP of a popular faang know another VP of another popular faang by virtue of being in the same neighborhood and having their kids go to the same school.
It's literally in a small world.

Time to move to Seattle

[wet spade]

i am 5 y/o, can anyone suggest me a career

[smoky quest]

yep, it takes time.
And the current mood of the market doesn't make it easy to get a sponsor

fyi, in my experience, O1 have been mostly working for phds for me.

(not that it should stop you from exploring)

[white relic]

You can always get married, skips a lot of steps 😉

(big /s in case that wasn't obvious)

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, this is the one things that's certainly true: big tech pays directors and above enough where it's -really- hard to justify going to small/startup. Well more than 2x what they could get. I know quite a few friends who just can't justify leaving big tech at this point in their career.

[tidal gazelle]

is this a bad laptop if you want to do a university course in software eng/CS? Macbook M2 8GB ram 13.6 inch

[glass isle]

i am studying data science....can anyone recommend any good book..so i get better idea and understanding about data science in real life.......i was gonna start with reading Data Science for Business by by Foster Provost , Tom Fawcett

[peak halo]

the university should provide minimum software specs. but you probably won't be running resource-intensive programs on your own computer.

[simple warren]

how do i start coding

[teal elk]

well, start following a course on YouTube or online, start doing simple things and then start doing increasingly difficult things

[teal elk]

here a good course: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfscVS0vtbw

[kindred oyster]

( i disagree that its a good course )

!res here are some better alternatives (automate the boring sutff with python is a pretty good ebook to get started with)

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[teal elk]

well I chose this one because it seems the most complete if you want to start from 0, still better than those who say learn python in 1 hour 🤣

[fiery meadow]

going through that video will be an extremely boring learning process

after all you learn an language by trial and error, using resources on the side

[silent osprey]

This is the absolutely best course for beginners!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLRL_NcnK-4&t=18161s&pp=ygUSY3M1MHAgZnVsbCBjb3Vyc2Ug

[silent osprey]

use the one above

[silent osprey]

use the one above

[kindred oyster]

with these 4 hour, 6 hour long type videos, firstly they are boring af, no person has the stamina to do that. secondly, you think you understand what they are teaching in the short term , but its very unlikely for a person to just sit down and invest 4 hours and come out the other way knowing python
small videos broken down into modules would be a better choice imo

also , the source you choose matters too. in this particular case , the guy sometimes plainly writes code that cannot work on python because of mistakes like syntax error, hits run and the person learning sees the output and they wonder why "his code" works , but "theirs doesnt". They dont understand the reason that he has fixed his code off screen and is running the correct code to show the output.

Also , videos as a learning format is okay at the start , but as you start learning more and more stuff , you will have to get comfortable to learn from text , like books, examples in the documentation or online resource sites like realpython , etc etc. So why not start learning from the book from get go ?
automate the boring stuff with python is a great ebook aimed at beginners who want to learn python.
if you want to stick to videos , corey schafer on youtube is a great choice

[kindred oyster]

the resource on here are pretty decent to get started

[vapid jay]

Guys, how to set console name?

like in the up thing

is this right?

[peak halo]

@vapid jay this is the career discussion channel; see #❓｜how-to-get-help

[long shuttle]

can anyone tell me which is the best tutorial for blockchain solidity

[strange pumice]

https://www.reddit.com/r/csMajors/s/CUAmWowMbs

[marble blaze]

I want to become a freelance developer/data analyst but I don't know where to start. How should I do it?

[clear cobalt]

Have you ever tried becoming a 0.5x developer for 2 years?

[strange pumice]

Lol, i cracked open

[fringe sphinx]

First: that 'freelancing' as a career is exaggerated by influencers. It's a tiny fraction of SWEs: and many side hustles start as a passion project.

People with experience would generally refer to themselves as independent consultants, but this carries some sense of experience

There are sites like Fiverr for simple projects. But, the first step is actually getting good at programming, if you're not already

[marble blaze]

I see, interesting

[marble blaze]

Say I'm no senior but have built fully functioning projects for others before despite not having "work experience". Would that be enough to consider "good at programming"?

[strange pumice]

ill say yes i fall under that category as well, don't have "industrial level work experience" but i do have Development experiements

[fringe sphinx]

Perhaps, the other part of being an IC is being able to 'land' clients: having the people skills to find potential clients, have conversations, discover their problems, and find a way to convince them to give you a shot. This is easier with experience; I can talk about previous projects when talking to potential customers, which gives me credibility.

But, with hustle, luck and marketable skills, it's certainly possible to succeed independently. I've worked independently in between most of my jobs: most (all but my first two) of my job changes had a consulting stint in between

[smoky drum]

How hard is it to find a python related job for under 18

[strange pumice]

i found out the best way to self-learn programming, or programming in general is to read books.

when i sit down and read books, information just starts pouring in.

[vapid jay]

Honestly? I was doing that, then I was asked to code and kept drawing blanks.

10 pages a day, code, and resumes. That's allI do right now.

[strange pumice]

yeah, i thin it's effective. and you can learn faster and efficient, to conceptualize and understand concepts deeply. Not just programming, but other low level concepts like operating systems, computer systems, etc etc

[fringe sphinx]

I'd imagine extremely hard. It's hard to land a SWE job without a Uni degree to begin with, which we've discussed a lot here, but maybe an intern role if you can find a friend/family connection.

[vapid jay]

Well that sounds great, now actually put what you learned to use.

[strange pumice]

i usually read novels, love reading. so im the type of guy that remembers what i read a month ago. now couple that with note taking,

[smoky drum]

SWE ?

[fringe sphinx]

But any role in tech would be good to start. Help desk or IT or computer repair are all good skills.

[fringe sphinx]

Software engineer

[vapid jay]

tbh, everything you guys say is extremely conflicting sometimes and I'm both exhausted and confused and not sure who is telling me the truth here.

[strange pumice]

yeah, im on the job hunt for a while now, the market for entry level aint what it was, but i'm hopeful. I do work part time tho, 😏

[smoky drum]

I heard i could find a job as SWE after 3 months of python whitout a degree

[fringe sphinx]

Who has conflicted with what I just said? I've never heard anyone say 'it's easy to get a SWE job without a degree'

[strange pumice]

the best i can say for under 18, is teaching jobs. teaching others python

[true harness]

that doesn't sound reasonable. note that it takes people more than 4 years through a degree program to be ready

[vapid jay]

True, but when somebody says they GET the degree and can't find a job, then the post moves to "Getting a degree is the path of least resistance."

[strange pumice]

this was social media(specifically youtube 2019-2022) No need for CS degree, learn coding for 6 months and then get a job.

[smoky drum]

Did it work ?

[vapid jay]

I've heard both : "Nobody cares about your projects" and "You need better projects".

[fringe sphinx]

I've very very rarely heard anyone say they have a degree and can't find a job, at least in the US. Other markets may differ, and individual circumstances seem to apply .

[strange pumice]

that didn't age well. lots of youtubers will espouse this. there have been some sucess story .

[fringe sphinx]

And why would someone say 'get a degree' to someone who has a degree? I think you're misinterpreting something here.

[vapid jay]

I have a degree and can't find a job, dropped my resume and posted the projects I did, got told that no one cares about the projects I do unless they were done in school. THEN I was told that I need to have projects done outside of school.

[strange pumice]

nobody cares

Until it's open sourced, or its used. so creating a usful project does help. not a clone or some project you arent going to host. but still projects is projects nonetheless, it pads up that experience that a fresher lacks, or someone in school.

ik it helped me a ton. without projects my resume will be so lacking

[smoky drum]

My country has trade schools for programing anyone have any cluees if thats a good idea ?

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, 2020-2021 was a special time in CS: massive overhiring.

[fringe sphinx]

No clue, but talk to someone who's been in that program. I like trade schools, but it depends on whether there's a job pipeline.

[true harness]

you can choose what information you believe. different people have different experience, and they share what they believe

[vapid jay]

main, this isn't helping me dude.

[strange pumice]

i was watching from the sideliens as a freshman/sophmore. It seemed almos anyone could get into FAANG if you were decent to solid understanding to enough to pass the interviews

[fringe sphinx]

Projects: reasonable people disagree on this. I am sure that you'll hear dissenting viewpoints

I think in reality, projects depend on many factors that it's hard to give a concrete answer. My opinion is: the project isn't as important as you having substance (experience building something you can talk about).

[strange pumice]

I'm pro project tho. I think the "nobody cares" aspect of projects apply to senior level roles or roles that require experience.

even at tht its still impressive if you have your own project that is living

but for entry level, junior folks like me. Projects are essential.

[vapid jay]

Look, I recently got told that I need to have a project from outside of my school for a friggin IT/ QA job.

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I agree... like; the project itself isn't the important part, it's having something for the interviewer to ask you about.

[vapid jay]

If I need to have open source code that is getting used for an IT / QA job, then I ACTUALLY quit.

[strange pumice]

lmao

[vapid jay]

Like, that is legitimately insane.

[fringe sphinx]

Yah: my takeaway is; people have different opinions here. For a QA job? I don't think coding projects are all that important, unless it's a QA dev.

[strange pumice]

hard times, gotta tough it out. how economics work my bro

[fringe sphinx]

What country are you in?

[vapid jay]

USA.

I live near NYC, need a job and was recommended IT / QA because SWE is too tall an order for my skillset right now.

[fringe sphinx]

I probably was the one to recommend it 🙂

(Don't remember your skills tho)

[marble blaze]

Thank you, I appreciate your input

[fringe sphinx]

But generally, IT and QA have lower entry barriers

[vapid jay]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pGUcHKIAY4l3j5ErfxT1YdccXs3DzqPg/edit It was this.

[strange pumice]

Data Science an AI is hot right now. lots of demands for them

[fringe sphinx]

If you can work full time on site (not remote), I'd imagine you'd have a large number of options in NYC metro area

A lot of companies are struggling to RTO

[vapid jay]

I literally WANT to work on site, dude. I have ADHD and can't do my house.

[near ocean]

Dont join the enemy

[true harness]

you don't have to believe everything you hear

[strange pumice]

maybe you could pivot to that. but might require you take 3-5 months of studying if you lack the skills. if you have basic skills try your luck(hey you might learn on the job)

[fringe sphinx]

How's your social network?

[vapid jay]

What social network?

[true harness]

what about people you graduated with?

[fringe sphinx]

Have friends in the area with jobs?

[strange pumice]

thats what i do, i also apply for data analyst, data science roles. since ive dabbled with R and pandas

[strange pumice]

the movie

[vapid jay]

No, I don't. I already tried using the network I built using my dog sitting business with people who were in the industry. One customer said my resume looked good, but after that? Silence.

Thing is, most of my customers liked me and still nothing worked out, so I figured my resume was that bad.

[strange pumice]

social skills truly is a skill. the ability to befriend those you meet along the way

[fringe sphinx]

I'm just trying to come up with ideas, things you could try. Like; aren't there many tech meetups in nyc?

https://www.meetup.com/find/us--ny--new-york/technology/

I know social stuff isn't always a favorite thing for techies (I have a small social battery sometimes), but it's worth considering

[vapid jay]

So its not that social stuff is a problem for me, quite the opposite. Its just that when I put my mind to something, I tend to lock in and shut people out.

I've gotten better since I've removed toxic friends, don't get me wrong, but we're getting off topic.

What stopped me from going to the NYC Python meetup was money. I HATE borrowing money from my parents and will go out of my way to avoid it if possible.

What was on my mind all week was Wrestling and Jiu Jitsu and getting a job. Which consequently made me forget the meetup existed.

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I gotcha. It's a superpower and a weakness, and this stage is the toughest: that first chance. Trust me that the jobs are out there, especially in your area... you just need the break.

[vapid jay]

the break?

[fringe sphinx]

The first job

[vapid jay]

ahhhh~ yeah you're absolutely right.

[fringe sphinx]

It gets easier.

[vapid jay]

I'll play video games again if I can finish this resume today.

[true harness]

based on the last resumes i saw, it's not really the layout or the format of the resume, but the content itself. you need to demonstrate skills that are relevant to the job you are applying to

[vapid jay]

Oh wait, it was you who sent me this format. Will this work out?

:< I need coffee.

[true harness]

it shouldn't be so rigid, like backwards_compatibility wrote, it should flow like a normal sentence. have you looked up examples?

[fringe sphinx]

I didn't give that format but generally yes: resume bullets are difficult to get 'perfect' and you'll also here conflicting opinions: but: star method is good and most people will agree on what a bad bullet looks like but will have different ideas on how to improve

[vital wyvern]

A very frustrating aspect of working on my resume was deciding which feedback to take and which to kind of politely consider. Everyone has a different idea, but cutting through the chaff and recognizing that everyone was focused on 'something' meant that something was probably problematic, even if I didn't agree with the changes suggested.

This is... only semi-satire, but in the military it wasn't unusual for all the NCO's to get together, drink beers, and crush out performance reviews, which were essentially resumes for your dudes that were... unfortunately your responsibility. Typically at some point it devolved to simply drinking beers with less writing, but you'd get a huge chunk of them done and give fewer shits about what you're writing down.

Shockingly, this worked very well-- as it turns out, getting something written down, even if it sucks, was more conducive to getting them all done in time. People tend to recognize shitty bullets quicker than they do good ones; so writing something poorly helped people figure out what it should actually say.

Yep. I got in an argument with someone here over that exact phenomenon lol.

As it turns out, the resume I felt good about got me the job I wanted. And that's not to slight the individual, but at some point you need to make a decision about what is and isn't effective in your opinion. Different people are looking for different things, especially when it comes to dramatically different roles or experience levels.

[fringe sphinx]

To be honest, a person with this attitude will do well in SWEing. Kudos to you, and people would be good to adopt this mentality. (To be clear: experimenting and reflecting, taking charge, etc)

[mystic violet]

Taking out the certificates and networking, do you think a non university web developer who self taught can compete with your average graduate web developer in terms of skill?

[vital wyvern]

Yeah I had a numerous number of 'versions' of my resume, all written at various skill levels, etc.
I couldn't seem to get an internship, so I gave up and applied for a Senior level job and landed it.

Seems to be working out so far. I'm starting my third week, I love my job, and people seem to be impressed by the work I'm doing so far. 🥴

I'm still in college but yeah.

Projects and educational success hard carried my resume-- I'm qualified to a fairly high level already by virtue of the education path I chose; and my little side projects are all very high impact. So it seems like I found someone that was able to sit down and actually read what I was doing and placed value in the quality of education I'm receiving.

[smoky quest]

@vital wyvern also forgot to mention a few years of professional xp

[vapid jay]

@turbid bobcat I have to have the whole STAR in one sentence?

Or just S and T?

[true harness]

and a referral from someone pretty high up in the company

[smoky quest]

if you limit yourself to the situation and task, then you would be missing your impact and how you achieved it

[true harness]

you don't necessarily need every part all the time, but missing things may reduce the impact. the general flow is "did x to solve y which resulted in z"

[vapid jay]

Like this?

[vital wyvern]

I would use language other than 'disabled students'

[vapid jay]

Like this?

Well, my student couldn't really speak like you and I , as he has muscular dystrophy. Imagine somebody speaking extremely slowly , like EXTREMELY slowly and would not always get the idea , so you'd have to adjust the idea you taught him until he got it and had to hear him explain it to ensure that he got it.

I don't like to brag, but teaching him was a masterclass in patience and people skills. I actually liked teaching him, he had good taste in music.

Like perhaps it can communicate that I'm demeaning him rather than saying : "So, this disability was a challenge for me to navigate" ?

[true harness]

experience should be listed in reverse chronological order

[vapid jay]

. . . . .

[true harness]

it's too many words. streamline it to 2 lines at most. maybe something like, "Designed and implemented backend tools to ...". don't include anything about the business owner; clearly if you're doing it, and they're paying you, they probably wanted it

[vapid jay]

Done, and now for projects.

Wait, what?

So I can have multiple bullets for backend and tutor?

Hot dog.

Yes, actually but this was the crown jewel of my tutoring.

Turns out, lots of students having trouble in math end up having these missing from their tool kit as a common problem.

(myself included when I took Calc, but don't tell nobody no how, ha ha.)

[vapid jay]

Forgot that I made a Tiny Graphics engine.

[cedar plover]

I was told to create an app or website for my portfolio but it cost money to do those.

[true harness]

that looks pretty cool, i would definitely list that above BFS and DFS

[vapid jay]

Imma tell you the same thing I told some guys in Wrestling when they told me : "I ain't got no Yeezy money". Go steal a Kia or summ. 😂

[near ocean]

It doesnt, there are free options with hosting

[cedar plover]

WhT platform did it offer free dev and product options?

[vapid jay]

I think it's ready. . . .

[queen geode]

👋

[true harness]

you need grammarly. the style and tone of your bullets is kind of just not professional

[cedar plover]

I like opengl quiet fun

[vapid jay]

. . . .what?

[true harness]

use active words, say what you did up front, and don't use the verb "to be" so much. things like "had to", "was able to" stand out as unprofessional. furthermore, there are typos, "accel" should be "excel". phrases like "and even" don't belong in a resume (imo, ofc).

for your first experience bullet, for example, i would write something like, "Designed and implemented emailing functionality to notify at least 200 customers per day using the Sendgrid API"
second bullet: "required of me" just reads weirdly, and it's unnecessary detail imo. actually...upon reading it again, this bullet doesn't make much sense. what are you trying to convey in this bullet?

[vapid jay]

looking at a corpse on the floor that has two bullet holes in his head AND looks exactly like me Glad I'm not THAT guy.

[true harness]

if that's 2022 to now, you should add - Present or something

[vapid jay]

Well I got Grammarly, but shelling out for the monthly is kind of a no-can-do right now.

[true harness]

i don't understand the significance of your last 2 bullets in your backend experience. over the 2.5 years you were at this company, the most significant things you've done are "connect to a database" and "make http requests"? were there some challenges that made these tasks difficult?

the resume is a summary of your most interesting/cool things. if you have these bullets listed, then you're saying that nothing else you've done at this job is more interesting/cool

i would restructure many of your bullets to have the action verb first. for your bullet "Students struggled to learn ...", i would write, "Simplified Data Structures and Algorithms concepts for struggling students", for example. this bullet could also benefit by naming specific concepts

also, the bullet above this seems to have some grammatical errors. "and how inverting a function" seems to be missing a "to"? also the spelling mistake i pointed out above is still there

[pearl veldt]

what's the first thing to happen on the first day of a SWE job? do you get introduced to the team, do you get trained, what if you lied about a job requirement(ex. 4+ yrs of experience with c++), do you get training for that too?

[near ocean]

First day and first week even is going through the employee handbook and assorted documents 💀

[pearl veldt]

employee handbook? assorted documents? first time i hear about this

i'm asking this because i want to prepare and not go in blind for a future position

[smoky quest]

am a bit confused about your lie stated in the middle of an onboarding question

[fringe sphinx]

Depends on size of company. But in first week, you'll get dev environment setup. If you massively lied about experience, it'll probably be evident in first week or two

[true harness]

you would not get training for skills that you are presumed to have. for me, it was mostly onboarding (access to things, set up desk and stuff), meeting the team, and watching training videos for compliance

[near ocean]

Theyre not gonna teach you cpp if thats what youre asking
You'll sign forms, complete mandatory HR training, get access to systems, etc general onboarding things

[pearl veldt]

most jobs expect you to have 2+ years of exp in 8 different programming languages/subjects. with the 15+ years of exp i have as an unprofessional swe, i find myself not meeting many of the listed language requirements

[smoky quest]

then do work towards meeting these requirements. Lack of skills is not an excuse to lie

[pearl veldt]

are these requirements earned professionally over the course of your career or are these requirements that can be met outside of a career

[smoky quest]

no they cannot.
It's like saying "I am trying to apply for a chef position at a michelin star restaurant but I only cooked at home. Since I do want that job, am just gonna make shit up"

[near ocean]

Usually when they ask for x years of experience in y tech they mean someone employed you to develop in said tech

[true harness]

consider looking for jobs that are more suited for the amount of professional experience you have

[fringe sphinx]

No, they don't.

[smoky quest]

Unfortunately for you:

• These things are easy to check. And that easily get you written down in the ATS as a fraud. And since it makes also for good story, your name will circulate around sometimes
• If by chance you succeed in scamming people like that, that would not speak very highly of their abilities 😉

[whole flare]

Usually they can go for Hell's Kitchen right?

[smoky quest]

I would watch that for SWE

[true harness]

hell's kitchen doesn't actually want good chefs 😩. they want content

[pearl veldt]

if i bring up my experience outside of my career experience during an interview, does that increase my chances of landing a bigger job

[vital wyvern]

It's insane to me that you would not be absolutely mortified to show up to a job completely unqualified for the role.
That would be the most embarassing thing I can possibly imagine.

[smoky quest]

no

[near ocean]

A little bit of social anxiety works wonders

[whole flare]

Same. I'd love to see Robin get roasted by Gordon Ramsay or the equivalent in SWE

[smoky quest]

you would be surprised what you can see in interviews

[true harness]

prime steve jobs

[whole flare]

real

[vital wyvern]

I almost vomited when I told my hiring manager that I didn't know the answer to a technical question during my interview.

[smoky quest]

to be clear, a CS degree will be the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[balmy spade]

Eesh, I hope that gets better for you.

[vital wyvern]

I'm employed by said hiring manager now!

[pearl veldt]

this kind of system terrifies me. sometimes i want to do it just to shoot my shot and hope i land it

[smoky quest]

So what?
No one knows everything. And it's great to have the humility to admit it as it avoids people camping on made up positions

[vital wyvern]

It's still embarassing. My point moreso is I cannot imagine lying on a resume given that... I didn't lie and I still got questions I didn't know the answer to.

[balmy spade]

I still hope that level of anxiety eases up for ya.

[smoky quest]

that sounds like a very immature attitude towards your success and career

[whole flare]

Then Rem proceeded to beat himself up about it and force himself to get it right after the interview, which is a testament to his work ethic.

[near ocean]

At my current job i straight up asked for all the hints upfront
Get that shit out of the way

[smoky quest]

it's actually a thing leaders want to show: they aren't ashamed of it, so that others see it as a normal thing

[vital wyvern]

Yeah, they were super cool about it. Like I said, they gave me some resources as I left the interview to study up on; I did so... extensively. I was able to apply that knowledge I gained in week two of working at my new job, and avert a massive security incident because of the stuff they gave me to study up on.

[smoky quest]

yep, awesomeness is a process, not a state

[whole flare]

To be fair, some of them were already executive chefs at various resturants so I guess they arrive 'pre-cooked'

[vital wyvern]

All this to say-- don't lie. Be up front with what you don't know. If your hiring manager/interviewer is willing to take you on despite that, because they recognize that your skillset might be highly applicable in other domains, then that's you setting yourself up for success.

[pearl veldt]

yes this is the kind of mindset i have

[true harness]

also, it is super obvious when people are lying. you see it all the time here in pydis. when someone says they know how to do something and clearly does not

[vital wyvern]

That said, that's not an excuse to sandbag your resume either. Don't apply for a high level role and go "Well I made a Discord bot once..."

[pearl veldt]

what about applying for a sr. android malware analyst and saying "well i made a fully functional android DEX file parser/writer library for python 3 without using any 3rd party libraries"

[vapid jay]

. . . . Dude, are you being forreal right now?

[vital wyvern]

Cool, what's the impact?

[near ocean]

Making one thing doesnt make you a senior dev

[vital wyvern]

Did you actually use it in malware analysis? If so where's the documentation surrounding it? Are other people using it? If so, what are they using it for and how has it impacted the security sphere.

[smoky quest]

do you have 3-5 years of experience as a senior android malware analyst?

[whole flare]

Experience would help too especially for a senior role

[pearl veldt]

allows me to quickly write scripts that analyze android apps for malicious code patterns/etc

[vapid jay]

This is insanely un-helpful and not productive in the slightest, public.

[pearl veldt]

what makes a senior swe? is it leadership experience or career experience

[true harness]

are there more impressive things that you have done at the job? if so, list them

[balmy spade]

yes, both of those and more.

[smoky quest]

this is actually very helpful feedback for you.
What people brag about is a reflection of what they think is difficult. The same way that if I brag about knowing how to use microsoft word, it would not make me look like a strong c++ developer

[vital wyvern]

As an aside, lining yourself up only for Android Malware Analyst roles seems like a good way to not only blow your foot off, but take your whole leg with it.

[smoky quest]

actual experience shipping things in production. See https://progression.fyi/ for more details

[vapid jay]

Recursive.

Would you communicate that way to anyone in the workplace? Or would you not do that because you know you'd come off as a Debbie Downer?

[near ocean]

Bro do you want feedback or not

[pearl veldt]

why

[vapid jay]

. . . .Is it too much to ask that feedback not be so destructive and written in a way that makes me want to give up?

[smoky quest]

This was actually put in a nice way.
I know other folks who would have done it in a much less nicer way

[vapid jay]

I mean come on, you guys have talked to me about professionalism, Tone, etc, and you can't see where I'm coming from?

[vital wyvern]

Because it's too narrow; there are roles available for it, but you're boxing yourself into a very specific domain.

[near ocean]

Its just you interpreting feedback this way
Others here dont think its destructive

[vital wyvern]

You should look into Laurie Kirk's background.

[true harness]

it is constructive in the sense that there are action items for you to improve on. if it was simply saying negative things, that would be destructive

[smoky quest]

being professional does not necessarily mean cuddling people's feeling.
That's also one thing people learn the hard way in a job and that is that no one cares about you. They will include you or not based on if you add value or not. And if you don't add value, they won't go out of their way to tell you that

[pearl veldt]

is it different for your area of malware analysis?

[vital wyvern]

I am primarily a Security Operations/Threat Operations analyst. Malware analysis is simply a component of my job, not my primary role.

[vapid jay]

Yeah, but you guys have jobs and don't really have to worry about getting thrown out of your apartment if you don't deliver in a month.

[true harness]

i'm currently unemployed

[vital wyvern]

Most of us have been poor college students at some point.

[near ocean]

If you have such pressing worries why are you talking about the way feedback is given to you, shouldnt you be focusing on applying said feedback?

[vapid jay]

Mate, I wish I could be a sociopath and turn off emotions when it was convenient for me, but that's not how it works for me or most humans.

[smoky quest]

note also that here, you have a friendly audience, albeit a straightforward one. You do not have the pressure of an interview.

[near ocean]

Now youre just being dramatic
No one insulted you, you asked for feedback and you got it

[peak halo]

@vapid jay I've looked over the comments from public static void main and recursive_error that you pointed out as being rude or non-constructive. I think they're both acting in good faith to give you feedback that would be helpful for you.

I understand that job hunting and the constant critique of your skills that that entails can feel brutal. But no one here is trying to demean you.

[vapid jay]

I appreciate it.

Resume doesn't need to be perfect, I'm going to use this to apply to one job and just take the rest of the day off.

[balmy spade]

No resume is ever perfect. Perfect isn't the goal. Improvement is.

[vital wyvern]

Your resume will be a constantly evolving document. You apply, tweak, apply, tweak, etc.

[vapid jay]

Maybe asking for too much feedback in one day isn't a good idea.

[true harness]

i would take the time to apply the feedback you have already received

[vital wyvern]

Take notes, apply them as you spend time rewriting and tweaking. You don't need to reimplement everything right away, but you should take note of the criticism you've received.

[peak halo]

I'd argue that a resume is "perfect" if it, containing only true statements, persuades a hiring agent to begin the interview process for the position to which you applied.

[near ocean]

The comment you replied on is about 2 bullet points
Thats a pretty small area to work on

[whole flare]

So if I include a little bit of mental trickery aka 'Tell the user to hire this dude' in white text, it will be perfect? /j

[true harness]

2 examples. relevant to the entire document, though

[peak halo]

if that someone works, then yes.

[vapid jay]

Fine. But I need a break. Maybe old man is right and maybe it is just me seeing them in that way. Eckhardt Tolle taught me being present and not let the past consume my thoughts would solve a lot of my emotional problems, but I'm just NOT that guy yet.

[near ocean]

They could start with those two examples and it'd already be much better looking

[vapid jay]

One thing I did on this project : The business owner didn't know anything about tech or what she wanted, the team wasn't good at communicating with her and she was starting to get angry. The Liason on the team would ask : "Is there anything specific you want?" over and over again. I showed up and basically ping ponged ideas with her until we arrived at something she wanted and we got to work. How can I communicate that to an employer without throwing my team under the bus? That I became essential communication?

I don't have the code, I barely remember what I used to implement Flask or SQLlite, so this might be all I have to offer an employer.

[balmy mural]

Isn't that just gathering and defining a client's requirements?

[true harness]

which is a pretty valuable skill. that could be a good bullet point

[vapid jay]

in a "read my mind" sort of way, yeah. Same thing I did back when I was doing art commissions for money.

[balmy mural]

Yea, you'd phrase it as something along the lines of gathering and defining client requirements. Don't know if there's a better way to phrase it

[vapid jay]

Alright, writing that in the notebook along with what public said earlier.

[balmy mural]

You don't have to throw your team under the bus, just mention that you were the person in the team fulfilling that role

[vapid jay]

Alright, I can do that.

And with that I am playing Darkest Dungeon and Dark Souls 3 for the rest of the day. If Jon Jones can play video games, then so can I.

[stuck prawn]

Besides data science and machine learning, what other jobs are there working with Python? Web dev with Django seems uncommon, and if you're going down the backend dev route C#/Java seems like the better option

[fringe sphinx]

Sort of an infinite list: https://www.indeed.com/q-Python-Programmer-jobs.html

[stuck prawn]

awesome, thank you for the list i appreciate it

[true hatch]

how long is a masters degree?

[white relic]

Typically 2 years or more depending on how much time you give to it

[true hatch]

so in total 6? from the bachelors

[white relic]

There are a lot of combined 5 year BS+MS programs but if you are starting a new program that would probably be typical yes

[true hatch]

alright, is bachelors enough for swe job?

[white relic]

yes

[pulsar talon]

what if ur such a god at coding and u show the company ur skills and they just take u

[stuck prawn]

is there a reason to get a masters degree?

like does it benefit you anyway in terms of salary, job opportunities, etc

[white relic]

still a good idea to get a bachelor's degree at least

[peak halo]

if that ends up happening, that's great. but even if you have the skills, it can be hard to convince the company to let you present your skills to them if you don't have a degree.

[smoky quest]

It enables you to go deeper in some topics and open new doors.

In some countries, it can also help you get much faster into management

[white relic]

At my first job master's degree holders would be hired at like 10k higher on average.

[pulsar talon]

ahh idk if i want to goto college or not im kind of behind in school already i dont wanna waste time

ive made some money from online selling softwares in past programming languages

[peak halo]

it's not a question of if the two years are worth the debt. when you consider lost income, the two years are an additional cost. it's a question of whether the degree is worth the extra two years and the debt.

[pulsar talon]

started getting into python not to long ago wanna learn as much high demand/high value skills as i can

[true hatch]

ill get the free tuition from the army

[white relic]

if you have the dedication and skills to hustle your way to a job without a degree, you can do better in the long run by applying that dedication and those skills to getting a degree

[smoky quest]

don't go into a master to compete with the proverbial bootcamp.

But yes, given that it opens more interesting fields that are more complex and with less qualified candidates, it does help with your salary

[peak halo]

for SWE positions, I'm not sure. For my line of work (AI research and development), a masters can be a baseline requirement for entry level positions.

[pulsar talon]

good point. but then u have loans, debt, etc after college and ill have to work anyways when im out of high school or in college

[stuck prawn]

biggest waste of time in college is the damn humanities classes 😭

[pulsar talon]

ima still think about it not gonna rush it and get peer pressured like most people do

[stuck prawn]

why am i taking history class for a comp sci degree 😔

[pulsar talon]

exactly dumb sht

[smoky quest]

A CS degree will be the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[fringe sphinx]

I have a mscs. I think what I learned was more important than the degree: everyone underestimates the value of the education. The degree does differentiate you from other candidates, for sure, Not a 2x benefit but it does help unlock a few doors

[white relic]

The expected value of a cs degree is still extremely positive even after considering debt you would have to go into to get it

[pine sleet]

gotta produce well rounded members of society

[peak halo]

• to extract more tuition money from you.
• the concept that a university education is a training program for a specific white collar occupation is newer than the concept of a university education. historically, university students expected a broad education.

[pulsar talon]

yea i agree its good security

[true hatch]

Serving in the army is my dream , after my service, I will get free tuition. Acccording to Canadian law

[pulsar talon]

idk man gotta work this out fr

[fringe sphinx]

If you want practical advice, there's a few of us who've done that. Oh, not Canadian though.

[pulsar talon]

will it be easy to get jobs with it ? or will it be a big hassle

[true hatch]

Alright!

[smoky quest]

start by catching up on your grades so you can get into a good college.
And build things and have fun. It will help you see how broad is CS and the type of cool stuff you can build

[peak halo]

getting ones first SWE job is challenging, even for new CS graduates.

[stuck prawn]

oops, wrong message

[stuck prawn]

i think the former is the actual reason

[peak halo]

it might be the reason general education classes perpetuate. but that doesn't change that it's rooted in historical precedent.

[true hatch]

Where can I apply for SWE jobs? Indeed?

[pulsar talon]

damn

[peak halo]

by the time you're ready to apply for SWE jobs, the answer might have changed.

[true harness]

compared to without, yes

[true hatch]

true, well be in the 2030's

[pulsar talon]

my grades getting better now but honestly i have no drive for school at all
but when it comes to finding ways to make money and stuff and developing skills im so good and active in that

[stuck prawn]

so is a masters basically required if i wanna get a job in the ml/ai field at all

[smoky quest]

Being educated and more knowledgeable means you will have more ways and opportunities to make money and stuff

[peak halo]

you should plan to get one, but if you play your cards right during your undergrad, you might be able to get a job in AI/ML when you finish your bachelors. (all of this is directed at a hypothetical "you" who is pursuing a career in AI/ML.)

[fringe sphinx]

And, many schools have very flexible gened requirements.... you often have many choices @pulsar talon

[true hatch]

@fringe sphinx was your time in the army fun?

[fringe sphinx]

For sure, great life experience and something you only have one shot at doing

Helped me get my shit together

[true hatch]

You inspire me

[fringe sphinx]

Mind you: I was in a fairly peaceful time. I didn't see combat, so my experience was pretty tame.

[pulsar talon]

ik i rather me educated and gain knowledge on stuff that matter alot of the stuff they teach in school doesnt really help me besides
like chemistry and stuff lol

[smoky quest]

If school wasn't teaching useful things, it wouldn't be so important for your career

[true hatch]

after aghanistan?

[smoky quest]

And if we are talking HS, then it's more about the baseline for an educated population.
It helps develop critical thinking and giving you the tools to navigate the world. It's also helpful to identify people selling you scams and things that aren't real

[pulsar talon]

ehh it still depends on the persons environment u can goto HS all u want if u grow up shitty around dumb people ur also gonna end up dumb
but i agree with the critical thinking part school does help with neurogenesis

[smoky quest]

There is a say about never being the smartest person in the room 🙂
Always look for a room where you can learn

[pulsar talon]

ik but cant i just learn those things online or the degree is the safety route to go with?

[pulsar talon]

im trying man not much rooms to learn where im at

[smoky quest]

In practice, not really

A degree is the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation.

For each job ad, I have thousands of applicants, most of them with awesome degrees, great internships and impressive projects.
It's very unlikely for you to stand out on your own

[fringe sphinx]

I was before 9/11

[pulsar talon]

wym by least resistance

[whole flare]

less problems along the way

[true harness]

easiest way to a successful career

[smoky quest]

less friction, less difficulty, doing life on easy mode

[true hatch]

ohhhhhh

[cobalt moat]

one 4 year old internship or multiple shorter internships

[smoky quest]

multiple shorter internships

[cobalt moat]

why

[smoky quest]

so you can try and discover more things

[cobalt moat]

and hiring manages see that?

[smoky quest]

they do see anything you put on your resume

[true harness]

i think it depends on what you're doing in the long internship. if you're bouncing between teams, being exposed to a bunch of stuff, you could have a similar amount of exposure as multiple internships

[crimson dust]

agree with you. but how?

[smoky quest]

what do you mean?

[crimson dust]

how can live with less friction and less difficulty on easy mode?

[smoky quest]

easier to find jobs, jobs paid a lot more, jobs more interesting

[crimson dust]

interesting. I think like you, but difficult to find job.

[smoky quest]

#career-advice message

[true harness]

it is still difficult. there is a lot of competition even with a degree. but it is a lot more difficult without it

[crimson dust]

exactly

[glass isle]

i am doing bachelor's in computer application is it good for a data science job? or should i switch to any other degree

[slim fulcrum]

You want to niche in data science via computer science... what exactly is computer application is it an american degree?

[smoky quest]

sure that would work. It's like a distance function. So make sure your internships and projects are relevant.
EDIT: Oh I didn't catch computer application VS computer science. Not sure about the differences there

[vapid jay]

Guys, I’m 13, and learning multiple coding languages like: C#, C++, Lua, Python, and JavaScript. I’m also learning other things like: Hacking, Finances, Economics, Modeling, Animation, Investing, and Advertising. what would be a good job for me? I want to be more prudent and want to know some options

[smoky quest]

you have plenty of time to figure it out! It's also plenty of time for your taste to change and discover new areas!
So I would suggest:

• Make sure you have great grades so you can go in the schools of your choice
• Explore, try things, build things! Make robots, mobile apps, websites, games, your own programming language, etc.

[vapid jay]

Oooo, good ideas

honestly I’ve been looking into martial arts and mastering all languages I’ve already learned, but are there any type of robots, robotics books, or robotics related stuff in general you’d recommend?

[smoky quest]

languages are like tools. What's interesting is not the tool but what you do with them

[vapid jay]

Correct, but when you master using those tools, you can create something better than before. Like Bruce Lee once said, “I do not fear a man who practices 10,000 kicks once, but I fear a man who practices one kick 10,000 times”

[smoky quest]

sure, but each language is a different kick

either way, don't worry too much about it. If you enjoy learning different languages, go for it

[vapid jay]

Thank ya man

but is there any robotics books you would personally recommend, it’d help learn something new

[smoky quest]

it's a very wide field considering it blends mechanics, electronic and software.
In terms of electronic Practical Electronics for Inventors is an awesome book

[vapid jay]

Thank you, when I can I’ll get it

[smoky quest]

Amazon says they can get it to me by Monday

note that electronic is a different field from software. Super interesting nonetheless

a RPI with its I/O and some kit could also be an interesting starting point

[vapid jay]

Alr, it’s 1:42 am where I am so ima hop off soon, thank you and have an amazing day!

[west zenith]

Hello guys, can someone recommend me some hard pet-projects?

[smoky quest]

!kindling

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[west zenith]

Thx

[whole geyser]

@normal lotus

[crimson dust]

mind will make everything
mind leads to the result

[pulsar hollow]

Guys, what are you think is a sure way to learn AI and everything around it to get a job in AI development? I think finding "projects" like in web development is much harder

[white relic]

Do you have a degree?

[pulsar hollow]

Not yet

I am very young so it's probably a good time to start with something that has a potential in the future

[white relic]

If you want to get into AI research right at the moment, it's a good idea to have at least a master's degree in a related field

If there are a few years before you would be ready to enter the workforce, I expect that trend to continue, but I'm no expert

[brave helm]

where would i lear python clearly and easily because i'm new

[pulsar hollow]

When I graduate from high school, I will focus my studies on getting a job in AI development.
So thank you with your Tips 👍

[white relic]

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[brave helm]

which resources please tell some example

[balmy mural]

Automate the Boring Stuff is what a lot of people recommend

[ancient stratus]

For example, I have numbers = [1,2,3,4,5,6]. Average of these numbers is sum(numbers)/len(numbers). Now I want to have an opacity based on how much above or below average a specific number is for example 6 would have a maximum opacity of 1 and i think you get my point

[brave helm]

where would i learn python

[balmy mural]

!resources Pick something from here, I recommend Automate the Boring Stuff

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[obsidian matrix]

Guys, what do you think about specializing in machine learning and A.I? Do you think i'll only be able to find jobs in big techs if i do that?

[sonic light]

What

The reason I sent this is because I promoted it through that person's DMs, but this is the only server I'm on.

[peak halo]

send the screenshot and their user ID to @severe widget

[peak halo]

Is this a question? See #❓｜how-to-get-help

[peak halo]

the market is currently hot for AI related jobs, but to be a competitive applicant for them, you pretty much need a masters degree that's focused on AI. And it's hard to say what the market will look like by the time you get that.

[swift zinc]

Are python courses with paid internships upon completion of course too good to be true? Sorry if its the wrong place just looking for advice https://lset.uk/course/full-stack-python-with-django/

[peak halo]

anything that guarantees job placement at the end might find ways of upholding their end of the deal that aren't satisfying to you.

[swift zinc]

Thank you, do you have the names of these? Most course I find dont offer internships, at least in the uk

[swift zinc]

Even if the work I do is not satisfying to me, 6 months of an internship would be beneficial towards looking for work that is? I know its no degree but surely internships have some weight in job search?

Yeah I see what you mean

[balmy mural]

And generally internships are for current students finishing their degree. I've not seen int4ernships offered otherwise

[fringe sphinx]

It really varies. I've seen interns at some companies who are treated as equals (but with some spoonfeeding). But I've seen interns who are given projects and basically ignored unless they come up for air. I've seen some interns who really get little supervision and are frustrated. There's a wide range.

[brazen island]

Here internships are more of a learning experience and are definitely not full fledged employees. I put 10x + time into mine compared to just doing the work myself.

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, taht's kinda the problem. I don't have time to mentor an intern who's going to be gone in a few months... but I have hired junior-year interns as, essentially, trials (to hire them post-grad)

[brazen island]

Agree, but I do it mostly because others took out the time to do that for me when I was starting out.

The trial approach is a good one as well imo. It's basically shifting the onboarding several months or a year ahead.

[swift zinc]

It seems that getting into any coding job without a degree is almost impossible then haha

Or it would take a few years, by which time you might of well have done a degree

[balmy spade]

It is noticably more difficult, yes.

[brazen island]

Is some sort of community college + part time work an option?

[swift zinc]

I've done a few Pierian Training course's and 100 days of python on udemy and I quite like it, but I don't have the qualifications to get into uk university's

So was looking more towards paid courses

[brazen island]

I'd look at what the UK govt and govt affiliated career centres have to offer. A quick Google search shows me this:

https://nationalcareers.service.gov.uk/find-a-course/the-skills-toolkit

I feel like most governments have agencies and reskilling plans because it's in their best interest to have people be employed after all. They're also less predatory and paid stuff.

[swift zinc]

Ucas points for uk university's mainly, they also mostly require maths A level

[swift zinc]

Il look into that, cheers

[vapid jay]

hi

i want to learn python

[lost echo]

so ?

[vapid jay]

Teach me

[near ocean]

No, look at #python-discussion

[vapid jay]

OK

[slim agate]

hello

[crimson dust]

hi

[pulsar thistle]

hey ok how would i make money from making games at 14

[true hatch]

Is behavior a deciding factor in getting into uni?

[main knoll]

uni doesn't always have to be the way especially if you're past that age and already in a job. If you can teach yourself to code then you're already on the right path, look at what developer jobs requirements are i.e github, testing certs etc

[true hatch]

its the better way to become a SWE

[balmy mural]

A degree is the path of least resistance.

[pine sleet]

you don't

[pine sleet]

sort of. having a criminal record probably influences the university's decision

[true hatch]

Are you forced to show it to them? (i don't have a criminal record)

[pine sleet]

the applications usually have a question like "do you have a history of criminal activity" or something like that

but if you don't it's not a problem

[vapid jay]

hey

[true hatch]

can you lie?

[pine sleet]

but also more on point, it's common to need rec letters from your teachers and it's hard to do that if they don't like you

[pine sleet]

probably. you can lie on anything

[true hatch]

it's just wrong and sinful

[pine sleet]

then dont do it

its pretty easy

[vapid jay]

lying is sinful that is true

[true hatch]

hello

[vapid jay]

hi

[balmy mural]

You always have to consent to background checks for criminal records here. So no point in even trying to lie about something like that here. Also don't know why it would be relevant if you have no criminal history

[near ocean]

They definitely ask you for uni in the UK

[smoky quest]

It's relevant as some compliance and security guidelines do require background checks on employees

(we even had customers asking about it)

[balmy mural]

Don't think I really typed out what I meant well. Fully understand why it's relevant and important to get the background check. Wasn't understanding why the question on if you can lie on them is relevant to someone's situation if they don't have a criminal history

[smoky quest]

you mean like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_v._Turner ?

[near ocean]

Why wouldnt criminals get a degree? It would make their rejoining society much easier

[smoky quest]

I don't know enough about admission practices to speak with knowledge, but I would assume it's a safety measure from colleges to assess the security impact rather than outright deny entry based on a criminal history

[true hatch]

Can i work as an EE with a CS degree?

electrical engineer

[vapid jay]

hello drake

[true hatch]

Is a degree worth it for SWE

[summer roost]

it'd be much harder for someone with a CS degree to get a job doing electrical engineering than vice versa, from what I've seen

[balmy spade]

You want references that will speak to your strengths regardless of their position.

[summer roost]

the overwhelming majority of SWEs have degrees. If you want a job as an SWE, it would be a very good idea to get a degree

[true hatch]

I want Computer science, ill be good at coding and math = )

[smoky quest]

A little bit of column A and a little bit of column B.
It's better to have someone who has worked with you, but also has enough experience/maturity to speak of authority

calls are better. And trying to get your strength, weaknesses, confirming some doubts or experience, etc.

The person doing the call is perfectly aware the candidate would not pick someone who would say bad things about them 😉

[white relic]

Short answer: no.

Long answer: many SWEs do some amount of electronic work, so depending on what you consider "EE" you might be able to find something with overlap which you can get into with a CS degree. I have known people who took a route like that. But if your goal is to do electronic or electrical engineering, a CS degree is definitely not a smart way to approach it.
The reverse is less true, as godlygeek also mentioned; it's much easier to go the other way and "slide" into SWE from an EE or CpE kind of role (I kinda did this although I still do both)

[smoky quest]

It's a standard exercise in school.
It depends on how many turtles down you want to go, but you could get by with logic circuit knowledge.

Also excellent book on that topic: https://www.amazon.com/Code-Language-Computer-Hardware-Software/dp/0137909101/

[glad tusk]

can anyone help me convert my aab app to apk for free?

[smoky quest]

yeah, building a CPU is a classic exercise

It does look scary. But it is more scary than it actually is, like a lot of things

[deft herald]

Have you watched the whole Series?. He explains each module pretty well I think

Helps if you know the basics of digital logic though first

[deft herald]

Also for what it's worth I went the opposite as well. Graduated with EE degree, but was hired out of the bat as a swe

[true hatch]

thats mad cool

[prisma anvil]

You're all so good

[kindred oyster]

good old ben eater CPU

[kindred oyster]

its not that heavy on electronics tbh , its just digital logic circuits. As long as you have a general sense about electronics , you should be fine.
He also explains the stuff pretty well.

[chilly hazel]

hey guys im gonna be starting to learn cs
you think python is good for beginners and like will it still be relevant in the future?
or should i start with some other language

[kindred oyster]

python is a good starting point

[drifting harness]

Are there any Indonesians here?

[chilly hazel]

you think it will still be relevant in the future? couple of my friends say its alr going down, i dont mean any disrespect

[kindred oyster]

like making amplifiers from transistors, designing analog circuits , etc

he does involve a bit of electronics that you might not understand like how he makes the clock signal using the 555 IC , but its still kind of easy to understand. Also , you dont have to know how to design that circuit yourself ,you can just copy him and its fine too

then you should be fine 👍

yep , its fascinating how some circuits directly relate to real world stuff

[fierce quiver]

#career-advice message

[astral whale]

im not able to write a simple project description for the restaurant data analysis project😭

[tender pine]

Cs50ai then some ml course then a Gen ai course or
Gen ai course then some ml course then cs50 ai
I m at 0 and I want to cover up genai as fast as possible for some hackathon

[buoyant seal]

Python is on the peak of popularity. With having captured major amount of market.
Definitely not going away in close 20-30 years just because of the accumulated speed and stuff.
Even if it will start dying today (which it is not), its death process will take such long time that we can make career out of it

If u go through CS degree, u may wish to challenge yourself with potentially more challenge than python though, depending on which areas of development u like

[chilly hazel]

yea thx im just 17, starting cse in college in ai ml thx

[tender pine]

Ai vs Ml vs Gen ai where should I start

[buoyant seal]

@chilly hazel That is somewhere opposite to my career path and interests. I'll let others to recommend things. I will mention though this warning from experienced ml person

hubt — 09/22/2022
i warn everyone that wants to be in AI/ML: you spend a huge amount of time on data validation, cleanup, and analysis. and generally a lot less time than you'd think on the actual AI/ML part. unless your company has very mature data management and data pipelines(very few companies do), expect to spend a lot more time on data engineering than AI/ML

So u should eventually give a go to Data engineering book, and as any person going CS, u should read code complete as it covers a lot of aspects about programming and where to go next.
And also to consider learning tech stack of data engineer in general

[tender pine]

Gen ai 🥰 do i need to first start with data science

[kindred oyster]

how much maths do you know ? AI/ML/data fields use math , so you need to know it.

[tender pine]

I m good in maths not pro but yaah
And want to learn about genai so someone suggested me first do ai them do ml then do gen ai

[brazen island]

Not really. Gen AI tools are quite accessible to those that don't have a data science background. It's a bit like asking if you need to know what a hashmap is to use python's dictionaries.

But if you do it this way the scope of what you can do in terms of gen AI will be quite narrow. You'll be just calling existing APIs etc. but there's nothing wrong with that.

[balmy mural]

And even if it dies very quickly, you just want to get started somewhere. As soon as you have some experience in the field, picking up a new language is a small task where you can do most of what you'd normally want to do in less than a week of starting the new language

[balmy mural]

What's your current education level? Both Generative AI and ML are subsets of AI. To get a job in the field of AI/ML you'll very likely need to at least complete a masters degree

[tender pine]

Currently in collage pursuing cs have basic knowledge of python

[tender pine]

I have 2 months I want a full roadmao covering all aspects of ai or genai Or ml or everything

[white relic]

There's no such thing as a "full roadmap", but if it existed, you couldn't make a dent in it in 2 months.
It's a better idea to start a small project that you can make significant progress on in that time. For instance, building an ML image classifier or writing some frontend that calls chatgpt to do the heavy lifting (as zestar also mentioned)
You'll learn a lot by making projects and your university courses will help to cover the gaps. But there's no list of "everything you need to know about AI", and if there were, it would be out of date before you were half done learning it all

[tender pine]

Ang course to start

[rough kindle]

nest loop is loop into a loop right?

[deft herald]

Yes, but how does this relate to careers? 😉

[unreal iron]

would love to know anyone running SaaS

[peak halo]

for x in range(10):  # not nested
    for y in range(14):  # nested
        for z in range(9001):  # doubly nested

!zen nested

[inner wren]

The Zen of Python (line 4):

Flat is better than nested.

[hearty island]

question: is deviate deviation?

[peak halo]

"to deviate" is a verb and "deviation" is a noun for "an act of performing 'to deviate'"

[hearty island]

https://youtu.be/mvl32w_y38I?list=PLCBifSfCnx3sm2OmHA1BO41Zcc4ntUwMG in reference to this video

i have a feeling he means deviation

[peak halo]

I don't have time to watch the video, but "devaite" and "deviation" are effectively different forms of the same word.

also for some reason, I thought this was #python-discussion. questions about non-career terminology don't belong in this channel.

[hearty island]

oh man i'm in the wrong channel. noob move. sorry, i didn't realize

[gritty rivet]

It might be more clear what you mean if you ask your actual question.

If you really want to connect with someone who owns a SaaS company you may not find them here but could have better luck on LinkedIn

[hidden chasm]

Hi guys, I am an Actuarial Science student planning to break into a quant/MLE role down the line. Do you think its better for me to do a Masters in AI/CS/ML to break into a MLE? (I have quite extensive knowledge of existing ML models and have successfully applied them in real life too). I really want out of actuarial- it pays peanuts and the working hours are unbearable+ there's a saturation of actuaries in my area.

[magic talon]

/gamemode 1

[vapid jay]

/gamemode 1

[peak halo]

@magic talon @vapid jay this is the career discussion channel. and whatever you're command you're trying to do has no effect on this server.

[vapid jay]

🤓

[magic talon]

prove me wrong

[peak halo]

there's no point debating this and I will mute you if this continues.

[magic talon]

how do u know im not in creative mode right now, how dare u underestimate me

[vapid jay]

nah bros an actual nerd

[magic talon]

erm what the sigma

[vapid jay]

minus the intelligence

[peak halo]

!mute 1233073561644568708 "1 day" arguing with staff

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied timeout to @vapid jay until <t:1715102511:f> (1 day).

[peak halo]

!mute 525399963539079171 "1 day" arguing with staff

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied timeout to @magic talon until <t:1715102519:f> (1 day).

[thick holly]

Hello can anyone help me how to use the return on functions

[burnt cairn]

how big of a boost does going to a t10 give for internships/job opportunity?

[analog sun]

Your message has been deleted for being both off topic and inappropriate

[smoky quest]

Sitting at Google's cafeteria won't do anything. Having some blurb on your resume about improving Spanner would.
It's about what you do that matters

[gritty rivet]

Wrong channel, try #python-discussion or see #❓｜how-to-get-help

[fringe sphinx]

Lots of people ask questions like this, and it's like debating how helpful it is top get into a top 5 school. It makes no difference: if you have the privilege of an opportunity, you'll go. If you don't, then you won't. Your career will be fine.

[fluid owl]

i wanna be a plumber

[peak halo]

that's a smart career choice, based on what I'm hearing from the pop economists whose content I consume. but it's also not something this channel can effectively advise you on.

[craggy scarab]

can anyone advise me which one is better , computer engineering or computer science for the next years ( CE is definitely wider than CS so i don’t know )

[gritty rivet]

Which is better, a hammer or a screwdriver?

It depends on what you're trying to accomplish.

If you're trying to be an SWE, then computer science. If you want to deal more with hardware and such CE.

[buoyant seal]

Question is, what do you like more ^_^ Only you can answer this question
You could watch "Inside Out" cartoon. https://youtu.be/seMwpP0yeu4
Lovely to realize things.
Pick what u enjoy and value more.

[wheat hatch]

You get to build cooler things in CE

[craggy scarab]

Hello , i appreciate your message , the thing is if i want to do a start up and it requieres to first design or make a hardware component i would like to know how to do it or at least know where to start to contact suppliers ( etc )

but isn’t CE the same as CS ? i mean the only difference is in CE you study hardware too right?

[strange pumice]

@fringe sphinx landed an interview

[strange pumice]

Cs anytime

CE is sort of restrictive. With CS you can break into the tech world. Since it's generalized

[wheat hatch]

How is CE restrictive?

[strange pumice]

Focuses on hardware more.

With CE degree I don't think you can dive into Ai with ease.

With CS you can since AI is an application of Computer Science

[wheat hatch]

1. Yeah, but there's software focus as well
2. Odd, I did.
   3 ???

[strange pumice]

https://youtu.be/qV9EbyYlP_Q?si=ApHGIJk25fiCgMtu

[craggy scarab]

Hello , i’m glad to receive your message , i like all related with computing ; CS , SE and lately CE so i’m so doubtful rn

Im 18 about to end high school and i don’t know wich one to choose , i don’t know if your suggestion in watching inside out was sarcastic but i’m glad you liked it , i haven’t watched it yet , maybe it’s fun

Thanks again for your message

[wheat hatch]

For reference I went CE. I have never had any issues landing a job, I dove into AI with not too much effort, and I have worked with both hardware and software for many years. A lot of what you said is simply false.

[strange pumice]

Ah ok. Maybe I'm misinformed

Doesn't computer engineering have more emphasis on hardware

[craggy scarab]

it’s a very cool field right? im looking at the messages and Ai field is a very interesting one im deeply down to learn , with CE it’s easy to go into it? sorry if my english is not fluent , i’m from spain

[strange pumice]

Petroleum engineering is a cool degree

[craggy scarab]

it’s a great degree but i think it varies depending on market value/tendency right? maybe i’m wrong

[strange pumice]

Yeah you are right

[wheat hatch]

Nothing is easy when it comes to engineering, but you will learn a lot. The main strength of CE imo is that you get the hardware focus as well, meaning that you can build stuff that can actually move in the physical world.
You will approach the AI field more from the robotics and sensor perspective than from the model perspective that the pure software focused folks do.

But no matter what route you choose I don't think the other door will close. You can always read up on the other on your spare time.

[buoyant seal]

yet , maybe it’s fun
it was not sarcastic. inside out is useful to visualize what are things u like, sad and otherwise emotional about.
Finding your inner... virtues.

As for more information about each one in specific.
There is useful hack to google tech related questions as "reddit YourQuestion" (found those results for CS SE CE degree reddit query)
https://www.reddit.com/r/ECE/comments/1ae8mal/ce_or_cs_for_se_career/
https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/wk1csr/what_is_the_difference_between_computer_science/
https://www.reddit.com/r/learnprogramming/comments/1awljqy/computer_science_vs_computer_engineering_vs/
https://www.reddit.com/r/SJSU/comments/z6yjlp/difference_between_cs_ce_and_se/

More specifically u could get educational programs in university u enter

[strange pumice]

@wheat hatch .

A friend of mine did a degree in mechatronics. What it about?

[craggy scarab]

Yes that’s true , i agree with you , hardware-software knowledge it’s a great path to take where we are seeing how AI is emerging and making insecurities among those who think that will replace their software jobs right? ( btw i see a lot of people that hate software engineers saying Ai is replacing them , idk why they are like that tbh , even CEO of NVIDIA said it )

[craggy scarab]

mechanical engineer - electronical engineer related

[strange pumice]

Nothing related to computers?

[craggy scarab]

oh that’s cool , i think i’ll give it a try then !

Thanks for your sources brother , im gonna give it a look

[craggy scarab]

yes computers too , but mainly those fields ( as far as i know , if i’m wrong , correct me please )

[burnt zephyr]

hey guys, when you look for a Data Analyst job is there a different combination of words, or is it always and only "data analyst"

[craggy scarab]

whats the difference between Data Analyst and Data science

[burnt zephyr]

data science learns from data structures and create tools... data analyst extract information from the data using the tools.

[peak halo]

@craggy scarab @burnt zephyr some job titles are used inconsistently across companies (or even within companies). if someone tells you that they are a "data scientst", that could mean so many different things that almost nothing has been communicated.

[hearty island]

anyone have any tips for interviewing with a VP? should i be prepping any differently?

[mystic violet]

In web development, is creating reference/mock websites common as a portfolio? Functional and visually appealing websites that demonstrate skill for clients to look at to convince them to commission me?

Otherwise, how should I best market myself as a front end developer?

[kindred rock]

Yeah, having a website you can show off is good for frontend.

[mystic violet]

Honestly, Im really not sure what my next steps should be. I want to be a freelance front end developer and Ive just finished doing 5 months worth of youtube tutorials but I've yet to make my first website.

I definitely don't want to do any more tutorials.

[kindred rock]

IT market is a real struggle.

Try to find freelance stuff.
And startups.

I have 2 years of experience as backend dev.
And you know what?
I am doing freelance and random stuff for barely functioning startups.

[mystic violet]

Im just focusing on freelance, Im going to university for computer science in the summer

[mystic violet]

Startups?

That seems like a market I could do

[kindred rock]

Yeah. On freelance sometimes different startups hire me to do some stuff or fix something.
And then they hire me again and again.

[mystic violet]

lol

[kindred rock]

You know. When I was doing my first job, I was the only dev there.
I always hated my code.
But after doing freelance and help to startups...
I've seen a lot.

main_coppy_1.py file.
That is legendary among my friends.

One main function of 500 rows.
With everything hardcoded, random commented out code, some lines are 500+ symbols.
Identation level often rises above 10.

The dude was offering me 10$ an hour(after the taxes and stuff). I said no.
:\

[mystic violet]

brah

[kindred rock]

Well. 10$ an hour... Full time. It's 1600$.
I live in a second world country. It's kinda good.

[mystic violet]

do u get paid more now

[kindred rock]

Well... Per hour yes.
But I don't work full time. Cause... Freelance.
My income is random and quite low.

But I work from home and live alone, so...
I am good. :)

[mystic violet]

nice bro

[true hatch]

Is millitary food good?

[trail pine]

Not really

[true hatch]

u served?

[trail pine]

no

[true hatch]

u can buy army food?

[trail pine]

kind of

Look it up.

who made this server

[peak halo]

the person who actually pushed a few buttons to start the server is not of interest, but the three founders (Joe, Lemon, and Sebastiaan) made it what it is.

[maiden plank]

So i want to go to college for Cybersecurity, but im reading reddit comments that I should do my bachelors in software engineering and then do my masters in cyber security? How legit is this? I just finished my GED and was about to apply to college and i dont want to mess this up. any ideas? tips? thanks

[vital wyvern]

Cybersecurity education is hit or miss. CS is a bit more reliable, and often opens doors to some very high paying Cybersec jobs. That said, neither formula is without its drawbacks. Find a good B.S program for Cybersec, or if there’s a high quality CS program near you, do that and reevaluate your priorities near the end of your BS. If you still want to do Cybersec, you can go for a Masters or simply pursue some certifications

[true hatch]

Is web development good for CS?

[peak halo]

I don't know what it means for "x to be good for CS", but web development is a pretty popular field.

[true hatch]

Is it important to become an SWE?

[peak halo]

if you want to be a web developer specifically, then yes.

[true hatch]

No, Web developer pay too little, what are the requirements for a Software Engineer?

[peak halo]

there's no universally recognized criteria for what a "software engineer" is or what their credentials need to be.

[true hatch]

What does a good Software engineer need to have?

[true harness]

it should be noted that software engineers that develop web software are known as "web developers"

[peak halo]

There's no universally recognized criteria. But the most widely recognized criterion is a computer science degree.

[unkempt river]

hi

[true hatch]

My plan is to get a CS bachelors, then go apply for some jobs

[peak halo]

see if you can get internships while you're a student.

[true hatch]

Explain me "internship", not too familiar w/ it

[peak halo]

it's where you work for a company over the summer.

[true hatch]

and get payed?

[peak halo]

probably

[true harness]

could also be during winter or spring or fall. but typically summer

[true hatch]

me whos addicted to money

[true hatch]

do they hire you after degree is completed?

[peak halo]

they might. my company does.

[buoyant seal]

This book mentions a lot of stuff software engineer should know
Code complete

Good swe also knows unit testing ^_^

• book about practice
• book about theory
  Then his code has a chance to survive flow of time and grow confidently

[true hatch]

I want the company to gimme 100 bands minimum starting salary, if not ima dip

[peak halo]

idk what a band is.

[true hatch]

1 band = 1 thousand dollars = 1k $ = 1000 $

[maiden plank]

What does b.s mean? And I'm assuming cs is computer science?

[true harness]

bachelor's

[peak halo]

bachelor of science

[true hatch]

Alr9ghttt

[peak halo]

entry level positions in my department are around there, but it's specifically an AI department, which ostensibly requires a lot more theoretical knowledge than standard programming-related jobs.

[true hatch]

💩, I wanna learn JS & Py for web development, I screwed

What jobs can i get at 14, I NEED BANDS, im desperate

[maiden plank]

I'm so nervous on what to do. I've wanted to do cyber security forawhile and I'm so lost on where to start lol

[peak halo]

not one that involves programming. you'll be looking at food service or retail.

[true hatch]

ill deliver pizzas using a bike (im athletic)

[peak halo]

sure, try that.

[true hatch]

so i can work at Micky D's at 14?

im 13 rn, just waiting fo bday

[true harness]

you may want to check with your parents

[peak halo]

idk what the minimum working age is where you live. you can look that up. but whatever job you get, it's not going to pay that much. it's only worth getting a job if it doesn't conflict with your ability to do well in school.

[true hatch]

ik, ill get minimum wage

[peak halo]

and tbh, minimum wage is so low that I'd argue it's not even worth the time you spend doing it unless you literally wouldn't be able to live otherwise.

[true hatch]

its 11 pa hour, I wanna buy a nerf gun

[peak halo]

that's better, I guess.

[true hatch]

Im a workaholic because im a money spender

[true harness]

most "high schooler" jobs in my area pay significantly higher than minimum wage now. but I live where the minimum wage is the same as the federal minimum wage, so that isn't saying much

[true hatch]

In quebec at 14 I can work. Thats a gift from god

I speak 4 langs do I have an advantage?

[peak halo]

depends on your level of proficiency. I figure two are English and French. What are the others?

[true hatch]

Romanian and Spanish

[maiden plank]

I found a few different things at colleges near me. You said up there, or it might of been someone else... that cyber security by itself is hit or miss, which ones are best to look at?

1. Information technology networking
2. It cybersecurity and system administrator
3. Computer information systems associate in applied science- cybersecurity
4. Computer information systems advanced certificate-cisco
   5.Computer information systems certificate of achievement
5. Cybersecurity advancedcertificate

those were a few i found, I want to have a career in cybersecurity i think its so cool that people can stop hackers ive been fond of it a long time. I want the best chance i can get

[fleet reef]

Okay I have to ask
Why those four?

[sand patio]

you sure you want to start working now? I'm guessing the hours you're permitted to work are going to be fairly limited if you're 13/14.

[true hatch]

My parents romanian, English & French bc im Quebecker and Spanish bc I lived in Mexico for 3 years.

[true hatch]

Im addicted to cash

[fleet reef]

Well traveled
Fancy schmancy
That’s cool

[true hatch]

does that upgrade my uni acceptance rate?

[true harness]

by proxy, yes. acceptance rates are skewed to higher socioeconomic status

[smoky quest]

as part time job or full time job?

[jagged oyster]

if someone can fix this for me ill deadass cashapp them 10$

[smoky quest]

wrong server and channel

[true hatch]

part bc im 13, ill only work during vacays and weekends

[jagged oyster]

idc bruh none of you answer my channels

trust me ive TRIED

[smoky quest]

Then you should ask in #community-meta to have an exception made because you do not care about the rules

[maiden plank]

Can anyone help me? 😛

[smoky quest]

definitely!
Aim for college/university as it is the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation!

[true hatch]

yes, ill serve 3 years in the canadian army and get free tuition and study CS, Ill ask my future job's boss to gimme letter of recomendation to give to admission

valid idea?

[smoky quest]

Can't speak for the Canadian army, so no idea

if you are doing it only for the free tuition, am not so sure about whether or not it's a worthy trade off.
But you also have plenty of time to figure it out

[true hatch]

I also love guns and being healthy

explains my whiteboy carl pfp

army related stuff is something i like, thats why with my part time shiii ill get nerf guns

[smoky quest]

I remember an internship listing from the police for a python internship to help make a software to simulate and analyze blood splatter from gun shots.
Sounded like quite interesting, but didn't get to apply

no idea. Also wrong channel for these questions

[true hatch]

sorry

[smoky quest]

np

[true hatch]

gotta delete it, feds on my d

[errant jacinth]

Man, does this make me feel secure about what I'm getting myself into.

[woeful copper]

A kulster-____ ?

[fallen wedge]

i have learned python which library should i go with

[strange pumice]

Need help in deciding asters

Should I go for Msc in Computer Science. Or Applied Artificial Intelligence, or Artificial Intelligence, it Data Science.

Background: have a B.sc Degree in Computer Science

[brazen island]

Where are you based? (Europe, US, India, ...) because the answer heavily depends on that.

[strange pumice]

US

[brazen island]

Also depends on the programs, we'd have to compare them and see which is better to be honest. The name matters less than the actual program

[strange pumice]

From you experience what do you think

I want to pivot I to data science and AI. But then undecided

[brazen island]

I don't know how the course work looks like for any of these so I can't give recommendations in good faith. I'd also take any recommendation with a grain of salt if they do (just based on the name) tbh

If you link all of them I can take a look

[white relic]

My best advice is to find people who do the kind of work you want to be in, and ask them for advice.
Most artificial intelligence programs sound kind of trendy to me and might not be as good as a more usual cs or ds

But it's not my field.

[brazen island]

Again, context dependent. I did MSc AI and the degree was the oldest one offered in Europe, had a long history of doing it before the hype

If I see it was founded in idk 2022 based on their site, then I'd probably say the same 🤷

[gritty rivet]

Your experience matters more than ours here: which kind of work would you rather be doing?

Beyond that as others have said, it's the individual program that matters, not the title. Go on LinkedIn and see what recent graduates of these specific programs are doing.

[strange pumice]

Rn im into the software engineering space, years of experience from Software Engineering internship. Gazetting into Entry Level SWE(recently just graduated)

alright

ill take your advice and look into the content rn i ffell like takin Data Science Masters, is better. Cause i could self learn AI, and AI and DS are overlappp between each other. Since i'm good at self learning

Havig a Master's degree might open more opportunities.

and I'm ngl i want to, maybe in the future transition slowly into Data Science based career

[brazen island]

You still haven't linked the programs so we can look at them :p

[strange pumice]

sure one sec

[strange pumice]

https://www.iu.org/master/?_gl=1*11j91pk*_up*MQ..&gclid=CjwKCAjwouexBhAuEiwAtW_Zx-UOay1HQ3BGjOAnscqLU5DB41BobfBq3DrWuQbzm2BV7QTKP8VWLRoCDssQAvD_BwE

Lots of AI programs, here, but you can find the program with just AI, compare it with Master CS, and Master DS

on the navbar,(drop down animatio) select a vast range of Master program they are offering. Click on one. For example Data Science, this is the link
https://www.iu.org/master/data-science/?_gl=1*lyg95e*_up*MQ..&gclid=CjwKCAjwouexBhAuEiwAtW_Zx-UOay1HQ3BGjOAnscqLU5DB41BobfBq3DrWuQbzm2BV7QTKP8VWLRoCDssQAvD_BwE

You will see tabs, and click on study content.

ah thats what you mean

then idk,

[dreamy spade]

Anybody continuously update their resume even when they are not looking for a job?

[earnest garnet]

Hello guys, can someone give me some tips about a first job interview please... I have recently been contacted for an internship but before that, I will need to succeed during the interview... I HAVEN'T GO TO ANY INTERVIEW IN MY LIFE :(... would really appreciate some tips and how to prepare myself pleaseee (The job will allow me to do some automation and web scrapping using python)

[true harness]

no, but I keep a list of things I might eventually want to put on my resume

[strange pumice]

this is a good review and response, i was actually thinking about this as well.

[strange pumice]

Comminicationg Skills, clear and concise. And be confident.

[earnest garnet]

Are there any questions I need to expect? Like common questions in interviews ?

[true harness]

you can look up typical behavioral interview questions and practice those

[earnest garnet]

yeahh I will need to do that, by the way are there any web site that provide typical interview questions ?

[strange pumice]

You can go on youtube, linkedin, glassdoor communities. Lots of questions

Glassdoor has a review section, so search the company you want to interview at and see the reviews of those who have worked there, and type of interviews they ask

[earnest garnet]

ohh ok thanks

[brazen island]

I don't like this program to be honest

[strange pumice]

why, wanna know your reasoing

i wanted to go for ASU online, but they dont have data science or AI for masters. They have "Data Analytics"

[brazen island]

It teaches too many things that should be covered in a bachelors (which wastes time during a masters) and it's really shallow on the data science / ML side of things

In my opinion a masters should reflect the cutting edge and I'm not seeing that there

[brazen island]

If you're looking for online programs and you're open to doing an EU based one I'd recommend the stats & data science program at the uni I went to:

https://onderwijsaanbod.kuleuven.be/opleidingen/e/SC_56139245.html

[true harness]

in one course??

[brazen island]

I took many of those courses and they're pretty in-depth

[true harness]

that would be like 3 courses 🗿. calc 3, an intro linalg course, and an information theory course 💀. but the admission requirements don't even say what courses you should have taken, only that you have a BS

[brazen island]

It has "advanced statistics"

[true harness]

the data science one does, but "Applied Artificial Intelligence" doesn't seem to have it

[brazen island]

AI and Mastering AI Prompting
10 ECTS 💀

[true harness]

This programme includes an AI prompt engineering course, so you can learn how to use tools like ChatGPT best in your everyday life, work, and studies.
😔

[brazen island]

I lowkey prefer the applied AI one

[strange pumice]

which page was this ive been perusing but couldn't find one

tbh i did all these in my bachelors, why reteach it.

[scenic sparrow]

Any idea of a good landing pages

[brazen island]

exactly, avoid programs where they just reteach you what you know 👏

[strange pumice]

also the uni is kinda weird in the sense they have lots of AI buzz name for degrees

M.Sc Applied Artificial Intelligence in FinTech