career-advice

[blazing harbor]

I remember seeing this post; it was so sad for me that we take advantage of the competition of the market

[kindred oyster]

thats a long fking ass post , not gonna read rn 😂

[blazing harbor]

I get it; why pay them more than what we could get away with paying them 🤔 but on the other hand man idk it just seems predatory

I get your sides godlygeek and thank you

[kindred oyster]

why pay them more than what we could get away with paying them

no , why pay them more than what the market rate is

[summer roost]

I don't understand the take that it's predatory to pay someone less than you can afford but more than they could get from someone else

[blazing harbor]

I understand this. Thank you for this conversation

[summer roost]

is it predatory to ask for qutoes from multiple contractors before starting a home renovation?

[blazing harbor]

nope that's true, and ig hiring an international contractor who is cheaper isn't either

[smoky quest]

from a management perspective, it would be a bad move too.
Because the engineer would be paid so much higher than the market that they would not be able to change jobs, even after over extending their stay

[vapid jay]

Isn't this true for all countries?

ie, in India your living costs are wayyy less than what you would pay in somewhere like USA/ Australia etc

[blazing harbor]

ah I see your point

[vapid jay]

You might get a rental property in India for around 2 months for what you get in Australia for a week.

[blazing harbor]

hmm what would you say about luxury goods though 🤔

[vapid jay]

Luxury isn't what you describe as supporting your family

[summer roost]

but luxury goods are much cheaper in countries with lower cost of living, too, generally speaking

[vapid jay]

I also have personal experience of people not identifying luxury goods in countries such as Nepal.

[summer roost]

it may not be true for every good, but on average it's cheaper to treat yourself in a country with a low CoL than one with a high CoL

[vapid jay]

When I went to visit, they wouldn't know how valuable Armani, Tissot were.

[vapid jay]

You would think, but countries with low CoL poses it's own challenges

No amount of money is ever enough. If you have an employee in a low CoL country and one in high CoL country, both with the same responsibilities and performance you should focus on them being able to afford similar lifestyle as opposed to paying the person in high CoL same as someone in low CoL and vice versa

[smoky quest]

No amount of money is ever enough

From a management perspective, there are diminishing returns

[mint oracle]

Hii R u from India?

[blazing harbor]

nope born and raised in the US

[mint oracle]

👍

[normal solar]

hey, I have

[spice forge]

Hey, any tips on finding contract work as a junior dev? I have ~9 months of professional experience with Python/Django at a small tech startup. I'm not sure how I can find companies that are looking for junior devs for a contract role(1099 in the US).

I have ~10 years of personal coding experience just doing little personal projects in Python, but I'm not sure how much that counts for.

[leaden needle]

Fatimah has many digits. She wants to construct two numbers using these digits, so that the product of these two numbers is maximum.
For example, if she had digits 1 2 2, the best she could do is to construct the numbers 2 and 21, and get the product 42.
For the given list of digits, what is the remainder modulo 998244353 of the biggest product she can get.
Note: There are three different cases you need to solve.
Subproblem 0
3 3 4 9 7 1

[gritty rivet]

Are you authorized to work in the US?

Job boards like Indeed have a filter for contract.jobs. Are you applying? Or what's the issue?

[gritty rivet]

#❓｜how-to-get-help

[vapid jay]

Hi, I wanted to share the following on my linkedin post, wanted to get some insight into if these sort of posts are valued by recruiters:

Excited to share my badge for Modernizing Data Lakes and Data Warehouses! 🌟

I've unlocked new insights on BigQuery's innovative features, such as cost-effective data partitioning and the use of structs. These tools simplify complex data analysis, enhancing efficiency and scalability. As a data engineer my focus is to product my clients with the most cost-effective and performance optimised solution while ensuring and complying with cyber security standards. I have listed some key features that is offered by GCP that provides key information how effective google is for modernising data lakes and data warehouses.

Key Highlights:

• Data Partitioning: Reduces costs significantly by processing only relevant data subsets.

• Using Structs: Streamlines data structure, optimizing storage and query performance.

• Google Cloud Storage Integration: Seamlessly manages vast datasets, offering cost efficiency and real-time insights. You can also directly import data from GCS to BigQuery for EL tasks and ELT tasks.

• Enhanced Security and Compliance: Both GCS and BigQuery offer robust security features and comply with various industry standards, ensuring data safety.

Excited to put these strategies into practice! Curious to know how others are leveraging BigQuery's features?

#DataWarehousing #BigQuery #GCP #Innovation #ProfessionalGrowth"

[surreal crest]

Can any expert in the field suggest me about how to go on about learning python?

I want to study Artificial Intelligence in bachelors

[peak halo]

follow along with a resource of your choosing and regularly apply what you're learning by writing code. keep writing code, even if it's useless. you won't passively learn from watching videos or reading books unless you apply it.

[surreal crest]

Im currently applying to universities

[surreal crest]

okayy, Im currently completing an online course from Udemy

[peak halo]

AI is an exciting field, but it's more about math than programming. so you have to study AI as an entirely separate thing, in addition to programming.

[surreal crest]

ohh, can you tell about this more?

like what kind of maths would I have to do and stuff

[peak halo]

statistics, linear algebra, and calculus

[surreal crest]

I still have 7-8 months before I start uni so, I wanted to get a head start beforehand

Yes, Im currently studying differential calculus

[peak halo]

be sure to look for universities that have opportunities for AI courses at the undergraduate level
most of the time, AI is only taught at the graduate level.

I got a job in AI with only a bachelors, but I had to squeeze every last drop of AI out of my degree. And I got lucky.

[surreal crest]

https://put.poznan.pl/sites/default/files/2022-10/02_STUDIES_BSc_Artificial-Intelligence (1).pdf

can you look into this program's course structure?

[peak halo]

this looks like it would be a challenging program, but there's a lot of useful stuff in here.

[surreal crest]

I want to go to poland for undergrad

[surreal crest]

ohh, like how challenging?

[peak halo]

I don't have a way of quantifying challenge

[surreal crest]

Can I dm you? there is a timer here

[peak halo]

!sm set 10s

[inner wren]

✅ The slowmode delay for #career-advice is now 10 seconds.

[surreal crest]

thank you

[peak halo]

I'll reduce it temporarily. But say everything you want to say in one message.

[surreal crest]

Okayy, the thing is Im completely divided on choosing computer science and AI, but I think I want to study cybersecurity as it seems interesting but there aren't a lot of options for me to do that, so the second best option would be AI as it is quite fascinating to me, but, I think I will maybe purse my masters in cybersecurity if I have to

[peak halo]

I don't really know anything about cybersecurity

[surreal crest]

oh that's alright, but will studying AI in my undergrad be a good idea?

[peak halo]

if you want to work in AI professionally, then yes.

[surreal crest]

true, but then again, how challenging is this program, like which specific courses?

[peak halo]

calc2, machine learning, and deep learning would probably all be pretty challenging.

[surreal crest]

okayy that makes sense, Thankss a lott, so, I should focus on these a little more than python correct?

[peak halo]

yeah

[surreal crest]

Okay, thanks a lot, May I send you a friend request? I would love to talk to you more about this stuff more in the future

It would be fine completely if you don't want to, I understand

[mint oracle]

Great!

R u studying or doing job?

[peak halo]

it's better to ask all your questions here, so that you can get input from more people. I can't comment on anything that's specific to Europe, for example.

!sm s 20s

[inner wren]

✅ The slowmode delay for #career-advice is now 20 seconds.

[surreal crest]

Ohh that's fair, Thank you for your valuable input ❤️

[fringe sphinx]

Just to reiterate something Stel is saying: get good at programming (through practice) and invest time in math. It’ll really help your Uni experience if you enter with strong math fundamentals and fluency in a programming language

Don’t worry about the specific topics tho; ai/ml are all topics for later.

[surreal crest]

okayy Understood, yes that makes complete sense ngl, cuz, It would be easy for me to feel overwhelmed then

Thank youuu

[vapid jay]

hello

[long solar]

Would these courses teach about the softplus, relu, sigmoid, softmax etc activation functions or are those just an ml thing. I just researched them lightly yesterday

[peak halo]

one would probably learn about those in an ML course. If you understand what arrays are (mathematically), those functions aren't too complicated.

[long solar]

I've only gone up to calc 1 and my degree doesn't require more than that but I learn bits and pieces as I go on. I prefer to learn something as it becomes required to know it rather than proactively learn and then maybe I'll apply it in a few weeks/months, maybe never. Like I was just learning about normal distributions and how 68% is within one std deviation and stuff, and about other types of distributions like pareto, log normal, and what kurtosis is

Because I'm working with a repo that uses this stuff. Also learned about genetic algorithms and NEAT yesterday

[eager sluice]

(in the UK) does anyone know How exactly does reneging work? If my contract mentions a, say, 6-month notice period and 3-month noncompete but I sign to a competitor company prior to starting my employment (also prior to pre-employment checks such as criminal record, right to work etc) but I would start work 1st June with the company I signed for,

What are the legal implications of accepting another offer instead? From a direct competitor too.

[fringe sphinx]

Im in the US, but the answer to legal questions is very specific to the circumstances. The only person who should answer such a question is a lawyer/solicitor

[eager sluice]

Fair enough! I was considering getting a solicitor on Monday and also asking the offering company. I made all this clear to them prior to the offer so they already know and still decided to proceed

[fringe sphinx]

I would not ask the offering company until talking to solicitor first. Better to stay silent until you have some guidance.

[eager sluice]

Any particular reason for that? I guess the offering company has a bias here, so that makes sense.

[fringe sphinx]

Exactly: The solicitor has a duty to -you- only. The other company doesn’t.

[eager sluice]

Thanks. Hopefully this doesn't get too messy haha, it's a really annoying situation since I was intending on (re-)joining a team that I know I very much get along with, and it's not like the salary is bad or anything. The new place just offered an absurd sum that's hard to reject, and I'm also wary of the fact that accepting would also burn bridges with my previous coworkers...

(Also the actual work itself far more closely aligns with what I enjoy/want to pursue long term, it's not just a monetary decision)

[fringe sphinx]

Again, I’m in US, but have dealt with this stuff here. I try to keep everything ‘clean’ legally: but non competes have a lot of grey area. I would expect a solicitor to advise you to stick to the letter of the agreement… what’s a month or two? Second; I’d expect them to tell you to be very careful what you do in your final time at the company: I’ve seen many lawsuits where the old company pulls up all the emails, downloads, usb drive insertions, web history of an employee who left and shows that they did a document dump before leaving to a competitor

I’m not exaggerating, this is a real thing

[eager sluice]

I realise I worded this poorly, but I am actually yet to start at the original company. I worked there as an intern last summer, and signed a return offer that puts me at starting June 1st. I mentioned the noncompete and notice period since I wasn't sure if these applied (I am yet to start)

So I won't actually begin any work until 1st June in either case, whether I accept the new offer or not

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, I misread then. Hmm. That’s fascinating. Not-a-lawyer me doubts the non compete would be in effect then, but who knows. Contract law is very location specific

[eager sluice]

I've been reading up on similar cases out of curiosity since I can't get a lawyer until Monday, and even here in the UK there are conflicting situations aha

[fringe sphinx]

In US, non competes are ‘outlawed’ in some jurisdictions. In California, non competes aren’t allowed (with some caveats) for instance

[eager sluice]

I was told explicitly that noncompete here is not really enforceable

But they give a large monetary reward to incentivise you to adhere to it.

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, in some states, they’re also generally useless and only fought over for top executives… and rarely used to discourage lower levels to move to competitors.

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, this is what I see fairly often for top executives; being paid ‘garden leave’ to take a break before their next job.

[eager sluice]

yup, exactly that. I'm an infrastructure engineer working in the financial services sector, so I guess that might be why it was included in the contract.

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, New York financials love their non competes.

[eager sluice]

makes sense. Outta curiosity is it legally enforceable in NY? Or is it pretty much the same as everywhere else - monetary incentive

[fringe sphinx]

It’s actively being fought over

https://www.natlawreview.com/article/new-york-governor-vetoes-non-compete-ban-now

[eager sluice]

oh wow

[vapid jay]

wow thats crazy

[blazing harbor]

don't you need linear algebra for any decent ML fundamentals course

for the intro course at umich https://eecs445-f16.github.io/

you would need to know this basic linear algbera

unless you can learn this from scratch in one lecture, I'd suggest you do a linear algebra course b4 exploring ML

[regal axle]

If you have the time, yea. But you can also generally figure out what you need to know as it comes up and just focus on learning those concepts. It’s not like you need all of linear algebra for ML. But yea, ideally you can do it first

[buoyant seal]

!rule 6 , delete please your msg. it is against the rules

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

[mossy shore]

@attomics

[heady wyvern]

whats the difference between a computer science BS and BA degree?

[pine sleet]

BAs generally have more general education stuff afaict

[heady wyvern]

which one is recommended

[harsh river]

BS but generally between BA and BS there’s no big difference

[vapid jay]

what are the programming languages I need to master to get a good job?

[smoky quest]

Languages are just tools like a screw driver. What matters is not the tool but what you do with them.

To that end, a CS degree is the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[golden flax]

For a friend who can't get a degree, is a data analyst or networking job more realistic than programming? If so which one?

[raw moat]

@inner wren

[strong socket]

hello can anyone proofread my reply for an application form
its programming related

[hallow island]

!e

[inner wren]

Missing required argument

code

Command Help

!eval [python_version] <code, ...>
Can also use: e

Run Python code and get the results.

This command supports multiple lines of code, including formatted code blocks. Code can be re-evaluated by editing the original message within 10 seconds and clicking the reaction that subsequently appears.

The starting working directory /home, is a writeable temporary file system. Files created, excluding names with leading underscores, will be uploaded in the response.

If multiple codeblocks are in a message, all of them will be joined and evaluated, ignoring the text outside them.

Currently only 3.12 version is supported.

We've done our best to make this sandboxed, but do let us know if you manage to find an issue with it!

[hallow island]

/home

[vapid jay]

hi

I recently helped Google fix some grammatical errors they had on their training modules, which might have confused other newbies. I got sent this email.

I am already happy for contributing to something and being appreciated for my contribution. But was thinking if I could boost this on my profile? for example my linkedin profile or something?

Is this any valuable This was sent by Qwiklabs Google.

[weak kindle]

Ig grammatical errors won't help you for job interviews

[gritty rivet]

Why can't they get a degree? Have they looked at WGU?

Networking as in pulling cables, sure. Network engineering, maybe. They would probably need to start with desktop support or help desk

[dense bough]

has anybody used psnawp ?

[peak halo]

Be sure to always ask your actual question, not if there's someone who can help. And this is the career discussion channel, so make sure your question is about that.

[dense bough]

clicked on this by accident instead of the normal channel

[peak halo]

that's not a careers question; try asking in #1035199133436354600

so that damaging career advice isn't displaced before someone can call it out.

[last oriole]

Is it hard to get a python related job in japan as a foreigner?

[fading jewel]

hi. can i please talk w anyone who is the ages between 15-20 who is a intern for tech??. i have questions

[true harness]

just ask your questions here

[fading jewel]

anyone here learn using odin project

[pine sleet]

Probably not unless they offer you some official position like contributor or something

This just seems like a thank you email

[gritty rivet]

Search and you'll see loads of discussion about this on Reddit, Medium articles, etc. It obviously depends on your career stage and skills, whether you're fluent in Japanese, etc.

[vapid jay]

A link for good project of python?

[buoyant seal]

https://github.com/encode/starlette

[gritty rivet]

!kindling If you mean you're looking for ideas of what to work on....

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[golden flax]

What's wgu?

[smoky quest]

I would suggest to focus more on the principles. So looking at languages that fall more strongly into some categories like FP, OOP, logic or even the actor model.

[vapid jay]

I mean I need a videos/website along with for it to make

[smoky quest]

Not all of them will strictly have a direct impact on the jobs to apply (except for more well known ones like java, scala, elixir), but they will definitely help in opening new ways to think about problems

[smoky quest]

That would signal you are stuck in tutorial hell. You need to get into a place where you don't need videos/websites along with for it to make

[buoyant seal]

What's a language you've recently explored that changed the way you thought about programming in python and in general?
Golang. Fun, Great dev comfort (Fresh enougn to be not having horrible legacy), great support (despite being fresh).
Completely changing my approach to development, getting to understand python typing at last
Understanding better way to structure code.
Relatively easy language among static typed ones as it is still garbage collected.
Linux friendly as i wished
Opened me room to build zero dependencies tools for CLI/infra and etc
As long as u manage to figure out how to unit test it, u are going to receive best programs with minimum effort (eventually).

ergh, i would have adviced learning unit testing instead of new language if u did not learn yet as well
https://www.amazon.com/Unit-Testing-Principles-Practices-Patterns/dp/1617296279
https://www.amazon.com/Test-Driven-Development-Kent-Beck/dp/0321146530
Learn unit testing while u are in python, it is very easy to learn it here.
Learn to make coverage beyond 90%+ for your program code

Unit testing in static typed langs (like go) is way harder

[finite crypt]

every single time when i write code i dont know how to pot it thogether in the main loop 😭
any advice?

[smoky quest]

That would be better asked in #python-discussion

[finite crypt]

ok

[vapid jay]

So what can be done for it?

[smoky quest]

#python-discussion message

[weary karma]

Should I remove walmart from my resume if I have two tech jobs worth of experience now?

[peak halo]

Yes

[pine sleet]

Make projects yourself without watching a video

[weak kindle]

When stuck?

[smoky quest]

especially if you get stuck

[feral igloo]

How to get out of tutorial hell? It's quite an effort lol

[smoky quest]

#career-advice message

[pine sleet]

Work through it yourself. Employers want people that are good problem solvers

[weak kindle]

Right

[balmy spade]

I'll add, ask questions. Learning how to do the research yourself and ask questions in a clear way after said research is valuable.

[austere urchin]

Please by homest with me. I don't have a job for four months.... I am totally free. I am capable of putting in twelve hours a day. Can I be a decent python developer in 5 months that knows OOP, database, API, flask, DSA ,Pandas,Numpy and django

[balmy spade]

Only you can answer that. Everything you've named is a lot. Can you? It's feesible. Will you? Show us.

The challenge you'll have is building something that you can market on a resume. School or work experience is just difficult to replace with side-projects. Not impossible, just more difficult.

[austere urchin]

I just want to know if I'm being unrealistic. I thought 60 hours a week would make me decent for an entry level at least

[true harness]

the baseline that many companies expect is a 4 year degree. achieving that in 5 months will be impressive

[smoky quest]

It depends on where you start from and what is you target.

In general, a CS degree is the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[balmy spade]

Then be realistic with yourself. What will you build for those 60 hours a week? What other skills will you include into your time? Communication? Team work? Time management?

[austere urchin]

I already have a family friend who can place me in his business but I need to have the ability to perform. He'll place me when I'm ready

[balmy spade]

What are the measures of that abililty to perform?

[austere urchin]

He'll give me coding interview questions based on these topics

[balmy spade]

Do you have any programming experience in those topics?

[austere urchin]

A little bit

[weak kindle]

6/8 months is required (atleast) to get ready for , if one had worked hard

[balmy spade]

I've done massive learning pushes in my life to level up when I was dramatically unprepared. It is doable but it requires a metric ton of effort.
The flask/django pieces in your list alone are worthy of months to build projects, experiment on, and learn from. I can't comment on the DSA portion. Not my area of focus.
It really depends on what is expected of you. Entry level, unfortunately, means different things to different companies.

[austere urchin]

It's entry level job for someone at most 1 year experience

[vapid jay]

I applied for a job and said I know how to program
Thing is I don't.
Do you all think I can learn in 1 month?

[fringe sphinx]

Agree with the above, and everyone isdifferent. Your question was: is it realistic? If we were talking about being ready to apply to an unknown company, no. Entry level SWE positions are -hard to land- even for degreed candidates, and even then, highly competitive. If you happen to know the company/etc, perhaps they are adjusting their expectations. In 6 or so months of focused practice, starting from nothing, you’d hopefully get through the basics and able to tackle small projects on your own. To also learn databases, DSA, Django, etc with no prior programming experience? I’d say that’s not realistic.

[summer roost]

well enough to justify a salary? almost certainly not

[vapid jay]

Should I cry then?
What can I do? Lol
They have already hired me

I even said I know how to use pytest and libraries

[summer roost]

I mean, the best choice is probably to reach back out and tell them you've changed your mind and won't be taking the job

[vapid jay]

Maybe asking chat gpt to do stuff for me??
While I learn

[vapid jay]

Could use one or 2 month salary before they notice tho.
I am lacking morals rn

[summer roost]

at a lot of companies, asking chat gpt to make changes to code owned by the company would be a fireable offense all on its own.

[vapid jay]

This one is a bank, so I could even face legal problems if they find out LOLOLO

[summer roost]

I'd be pretty surprised if you lasted a week, though I'm already pretty surprised that you managed to get hired without knowing how to code, so perhaps the company hiring you is incompetent

realistically, what you did here was not a good idea. you will be found out, and pretty quickly

I'm curious how you got past the interview. Did they just not ask technical questions at all? Or did they ask technical questions that you cheated your way through with ChatGPT or with a friend answering for you or something?

[vapid jay]

It was pretty quick
They just asked me if I know how to automatize, and I simply said yes, then they asked what kind of stuff I know how to automatize, and I said data bases and others

I think they liked to hear that, cuz they didn't ask much more

[summer roost]

wow. that's really incompetent interviewing...

[fringe sphinx]

What’s the job title?

[vapid jay]

I don't think it's a big enterprise
Maybe I shouldn't take the job, tho I need money I don't enjoy fucking other people's business

[vapid jay]

Idk how they call it in English, but it's like the kind of jobs students get

[summer roost]

internship, perhaps

[fringe sphinx]

Intern?

[vapid jay]

Yes, that thing

Won't be earning much
But I don't want to play smart and end up like this 🤡

[summer roost]

well, what you've done is a lot like accepting a job translating an English novel into French without knowing any French. There's virtually no chance of you learning enough French quickly enough to fool the people who hired you and keep that job.

[vapid jay]

So if I can't learn quick enough, I think I'd be quitting before I get fired

[vapid jay]

Yeah, that's a lot like what I did

I thought it was easy tho, chat reached me how to actually program a data base to get updated with internet info, which is pretty cool I believe

Ig I thought I could learn anything and got confident

[summer roost]

oh well. the right thing for you to do would be to revoke your acceptance. If you're not gonna do that, the second best thing would be to throw all your energy into learning Python for a month and see how far you get. I doubt you'll get to the point of being able to understand and use pytest or database drivers, but it's not totally impossible

[vapid jay]

They're basically trying to make a bank app and want me to test it's programming, but since I don't even know how to read the code, I think my last hope is to cry

[vapid jay]

Yes, I think I'll give up later and try hard first

I really thought if and else was all programming there was to learn lol

[smoky quest]

there is a joke about AI somewhere

[summer roost]

after 1 month of learning, a lot of people can't even make something very simple like a text-based Blackjack game

[smoky quest]

For context, a degree would take students something like studying full time for 3-5 years. 1 month is nothing comparing to that

[vapid jay]

Well, I was going to jump off a bridge eventually anyways
So why not trying first?
Sounds like I'm pretty fucked tho

[smoky quest]

no need to be so dramatic.
There is no reason to jump from any bridge nor to joke about it

[balmy spade]

I would bail while you can without facing the chance of whatever legal lines you might sign in your employment agreement.

[vapid jay]

I haven't signed
What is bailing?

[balmy spade]

Don't sign. Don't take the offer.

[vapid jay]

Yeah, maybe I should start off with simpler jobs for now, right?

While I learn some more

[vapid jay]

It's just being too much, yk?
My mom died a month ago and my dad is a freaking asshole, he won't be responding for any of my 3 younger sisters nor me, so

[summer roost]

one of the standard forms you sign while accepting an offer - at least in my country - is one where you swear that you haven't lied during the interview process. After signing that form, it's much easier to get sued for fraud when they realize you lied to them. It's not common for a company to bother going after someone who lied to get hired, but it is possible, especially if you make them look bad

[vapid jay]

I even had to punch him in the face some days ago, cuz he called me a son of a bitch twice after I asked him not to

[vapid jay]

Oh damn, that's pretty scary already

[smoky quest]

Either way, not a reason to joke about it.
I would second @balmy spade in terms of not signing the offer. You would be avoiding some additional headache and stress. Given you know nothing, it's not like you would last long anyway and as such you wouldn't get much out of it. You would only get stress and anger since you are wasting time of everyone at the company, they wouldn't be happy about you (and thus not being so friendly) and you would feel the pressure to make up for your lack of skills

[vapid jay]

Ig they can tell others not to hire me too, right?

[smoky quest]

Some things may happen. It's a bit more blurry.
But there is no official registry of blacklisted people

[summer roost]

anything's possible. that's not super likely, but it could happen

[smoky quest]

if you are in college age, aim for a college and a CS degree

[vapid jay]

I'm mid way through my career, but I can't keep studying much longer if I don't find a way to finance my studies, that's why I tried doing this, but I thought it'd be easier.
Maybe I'm realizing it's not soon enough

So you say I wouldn't last a month?
Like that's really unlikely?

[smoky quest]

Imagine you are hiring a mechanics to build your car and they know nothing about cars. How long do you think they could last?

It's not like in the movies where somehow there will be some magic

[vapid jay]

Alr f it, I'll have to say no
What I will try tho, is to tell them that I'm not confident that my skills would be enough, and that way maybe they'll give me some extra learning time

Capacitation, and maybe that way they'll find out I'm incompetente if I can't keep up and then fire me before I'm even actually in

[smoky quest]

That's a bit naive, but given how incompetent they are at hiring, they may try to help

[vapid jay]

I'll save them some trouble and me too that way

Worse case I even get some capacitation

[vapid jay]

I think they will, specially because one of the bosses over there is my neighbor and the one who offered me the job, he personally offered me capacitation first, and I denied cuz I thought it'd be easier

[smoky quest]

oh nepotism. That explains it

Then yeah, I wouldn't worry. Worst case, they use you to bring coffee.

[vapid jay]

Yeah, I kinda hate the concept too, but maybe I could use it

[smoky quest]

Still be honest with your neighbor though. You don't want to burn the bridge

[vapid jay]

||Or jump off of it||
Aahem
Yeah, I think I shouldn't be an asshole thought life

[smoky quest]

If you want continued help here, I would suggest to take seriously the requests to stop joking about suicide

[austere urchin]

Are you trying to mock me

[tight sonnet]

Hello, Guys.
I am a senior web developer from Estonia.
Now I am looking for US-based developers for an exciting collaboration.
If you are interested, please DM.
Regards.
Nikola.

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

[buoyant seal]

I am a senior web developer from Estonia.
Now I am looking for US-based developers for an exciting collaboration.
that's just straight discrimination 😅 as non US dev asking for US devs only.

[mint oracle]

why us based dev when u buy cheaper developer from south east asia and africa

[vapid jay]

is there anyone here who works as a python dev remotely

[buoyant seal]

recommendation to be more efficient in your question. Ask the stuff u intended to ask instead of asking to ask.
#❓｜how-to-get-help it could be useful to read the guide how to get help.
following this code conduct u are way more likely going to get answers to your questions
Make sure preferably to provide all relevant context to your question. It can save some time in questioning and following misleading directions like XY problems

[deft herald]

Yes though i'm not full time remote

[ivory compass]

Is https://roadmap.sh/devops actually accurate?

I know the frontend roadmap is a complete lie so I am not sure if that same website for devops is true

[deft herald]

Looks pretty accurate afaik about devops. I would probalby put CI/CD earlier in the flow

[main barn]

what about python road map? :https://roadmap.sh/python

[digital fjord]

As with all of these roadmaps, you'll end up on multiple steps in parallel, rather than going step by step, but they are adequate checklists for what to look at.

[ivory compass]

Doesn't look accurate on the Python. Why are those algorithims even used if they don't solve a business problem?

[main barn]

i just want to know what things to learn thats why i look at road maps

[ivory compass]

ok thanks, I'll keep that in mind because I don't know understand of the stuff being said at work lol

[smoky quest]

What algorithms don't solve business problems?

[vapid jay]

can i inbox you , theres something i need to know

[ivory compass]

If they solve a business problem, then they are used. If I am looking to fetch some data and process it, I refuse to use recursion

[deft herald]

No. But you can ask your questions here

[deft herald]

So "fetch some data and process it" is the only practical use for python in business?

[ivory compass]

No that is taking words out of my mouth. There is more to it, I am giving an example

[true harness]

depends on the processing, doesn't it?

[ivory compass]

It does yes and if it solves a business problem, use it.

[deft herald]

You're very heavily implying that not all of the algs listed are relevant to "solve business problems". We're trying to figure out why you're saying that and so far you gave one example

[ivory compass]

Why would I list all of the examples? That makes no sense

[vapid jay]

alright, how did you become a python dev

[ivory compass]

In the end, we as programmers are meant to solve problems for business. That is the way I see it

[deft herald]

Where do you want me to begin?

[vapid jay]

from the start evens if its a long story i still want to know

[deft herald]

Well, i for one can attest to implementing each one of those algorithms before for work. Only thing i haven't had to do so far is sorting...but now that i think about it I actually did have to in my interview so there you go

[ivory compass]

I mean you proved my original point that if it solves business problem, it will be used. Thank you

[deft herald]

Your original point, if i'm not mistaken, was "that roadmap is innacurate because those algorithms aren't used to solve business problems".

[deft herald]

alright gimme a min

[vapid jay]

sure

[deft herald]

Just started a meeting will be a few

[ivory compass]

It's not accurate because it doesn't have a particular focus on business. Like the frontend one does not tell you what types of business requires SEO and same goes for Python

[smoky quest]

why do you refuse to use an important tool for your role, career and business?

[vapid jay]

when you done , you can send , i dont mind waiting

[ivory compass]

Haven't found a use case for it yet. Thats why I refuse to use it when there are other options out there.

[smoky quest]

That sounds pretty narrow minded. I would suggest to try to think a bit more broad and bigger

There are things you know you don't know, but there are also things you don't know you don't know.
Recursion and other topics are on every learning plans because there is value in knowing them, even if you don't see a direct usage today

[hollow vault]

ive been at my job for a little over a year now as a data analyst. its my first job in the tech area. what are some things to do now to boost my chances of being hired for my next job? it was pretty hard getting this one because i was switching career fields so i am just trying to prep now

[regal axle]

Why? Are you dissatisfied with your current job? And if so, why?

[leaden jasper]

It's helpful to take notes of any metrics you influence now. Like if you improve the speed of something, change how you do something for the better, that sort of thing. It's helpful for updating a future resume

[hollow vault]

a little dissatisfied. but its bearable for a bit. just want to be ready. the biggest reason is definitely just poor management

and they are paying under market rate which i was willing to accept at first in order to get experience, but now i just want to be open to new opportunities that will pay more on the level

[true harness]

in general, keep a list of "cool things" you've done. saves having to remember all the things you did when writing a resume. (oops, didn't mean to ping)

[deft herald]

I guess i'll start from college:

• graduated in 2011 with BS in Electrical Engineering
• worked for the job i had in college doing web development-type stuff for a year
• hired in 2012 at Seagate working on a team dealing with servo related hardawre and data. Wrote a lot of C and matlab. Eventually taught myself Python in this job
• left in 2018 to work at Qualcomm, writing test automation for 5G modem software
• converted to remote for COVID. Been hybrid for the last couple years

[vapid jay]

did you teach yourself python by youtube courses or ...

[deft herald]

I learned it out of necessity by reading other code, writing new code, and making it work

I probably did plenty of google for stuff like "python for loop" etc.

[ivory compass]

The last is where I disagree because as someone who had used those roadmaps, I was very frustrated that to learn once I got the job that most of the stuff I learnt was absolutely useless. I don't want beginners to feel overwhelmed by those roadmaps when the reality is, it's very dependant on what part of the industry you go in. If it was more specific instead of so broad, it would be better

[smoky quest]

People are more tied to their skills than an industry. As such splitting by industry is not helpful

[deft herald]

Also, there's no rule on that roadmap saying "you have to learn this"

[ivory compass]

The roadmap shows all these technologies , how do you think a beginner feels?

[deft herald]

Like a beginner lol

[ivory compass]

Overwhelmed.

[deft herald]

That's just life though. How it feels to just get into anything really for the first time. It's like a freshman looking at an entire degree program for engineering

[ivory compass]

I think splitting it by industry is very useful indeed so we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one

[deft herald]

"damn, that's what i need to learn to become an engineer???"

That's why it takes 4 years

[smoky quest]

Note that these roadmaps are made by individuals with their own biases from their own experiences.

For better roadmap, you should look at curriculum made by education professionals such as ones from schools or people like https://csed.acm.org/ where it's done in consultation between people with educational backgrounds and professionals from the industry

[ivory compass]

It doesn't have to be this way. I'd rather a roadmap that is more targetted instead of showing all of those technologies

[smoky quest]

that would be your own bias on top of someone else's bias.
For instance recursion is in every curriculum for a reason

[deft herald]

I suppose that's fair, but only after a certain point. I think your original point was specifically about the algorithms. Those are just good fundamentals to have regardless of your industry

[vapid jay]

that sounds interesting

[vapid jay]

did you just apply to jobs with your portfolio or ...

[deft herald]

With my resume, yes. Mind you for that first job, i wasn't hired to write Python specifically. That's just what i ended up doing as i grew into my role. Detailed job descriptions tend to change drastically from what the initial job listing was (at least in my experience)

[smoky quest]

note that picking up a new language is not a complicated thing for a professional software engineer. It's a matter of days.
What matters is what you do with them.

So I would suggest to not focus so much on python itself but on how you apply it. For instance the difficult part is knowing how to scale a service or how to implement machine learning. The python part is the easy one.
To that end, it's common to hire people who have used different languages. And it's better to frame yourself as a software engineer rather than a python engineer

[deft herald]

Yeah exactly. I was originally hired for being an engineer who happened to have any experience programming. I think that was my niche. I didn't know how important of a skill that was until i started working with a bunch of mechanical engineers who were trying to write matlab scripts

[vapid jay]

so i should learn more then 1 language

[analog sun]

As a mech, that sounds very relatable

[deft herald]

😄 I mean those people were geniuses...they just didn't know how to program

[deft herald]

The point is that you should learn how to program. The language in the end isn't the most important part

[vapid jay]

what is the most important part

[vapid jay]

well thank you so much , this is actually opening my mind to new things , i find this really helpful

[deft herald]

Knowing how to program?

[blazing harbor]

I'd learn the basic syntax and basic DSA and see what kinda path you want to take

I'd also confirm that you have solid math fundamentals like calc 1-3 and maybe lin alg

[vapid jay]

with different languages to make me more flexable

[vapid jay]

creating a cal or like just solid math fundaments

[deft herald]

Yeah i'd say learn at least 2 different languages just so you know how they can differ. Maybe a high level language like python and a low level language like C

[smoky quest]

it's always helpful to know more than one language:

• Languages are like tools. They have their preferred use. You could hammer a nail with the end of a screw driver, but it would be preferable to know how to use both hammers and screw drivers for their respective best use
• Especially languages with different paradigms as they help you see different ways to think and approach problems

[vapid jay]

do you have any suggestions for best remote jobs after knowing C and mastering the requried skills for a python dev

[deft herald]

The best job is the one that you can get

[vapid jay]

i mean as in companies or websites to target

[vapid jay]

facts

[deft herald]

All of them

I like to search for companies in the area and apply directly on their website

[ivory compass]

frankly I think like if you can create application that can solve their problem. Probably works. This is extreme but what I did was recreate a part of their project and show it in the interview.

[smoky yacht]

Guys how can i fix that ? Its for install numpy in vscod

[smoky quest]

Hi!
This is the wrong place to ask. See #❓｜how-to-get-help

[white vortex]

I'm 17, my career plan is to enlist in the U.S. Space Force, if not, the U.S. Air Force, get a job in Cyber Security, get as much certificates as possible while enlisted, then depart after 6 years and try to land a decent paying salary within the CyberSec field. Is this a realistic plan? How would you go about it?

[whole flare]

based plan

ask @vital wyvern

[vital wyvern]

Realistic yes, but the military isn't an 'instant win' when it comes to Cybersecurity. It can give you some relevant experience, and often you'll come out of your technical training with Sec+ and a clearance. So both of those can be good launching points for after the military. Just keep in mind that... obtaining one of those jobs can be fairly competitive because of this, so it's not always as straightforward as walking into the recruiter's office and saying "Hello please give me this job."

Also, you receive something called tuition assistance while on active duty. ** USE THIS. ** Do not go "Ah I'll do it later." or "Well I'll just use my Post 9/11 GI Bill after I get out."

[smoky quest]

also to note that a CS degree is the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation
(or cybersec related)

[white vortex]

I understand that those jobs are some of the most sought out after, I've been studying the ASVAB for ab 3 months now, I get 90 or over on all practice tests. I haven't spoke to a recruiter yet at all. I am trying to get a higher AVG score before I do. I have been physically training as well. I am trying to find a niche in the field that way I can job seek easier. I am currently looking at the testing side.

[fringe sphinx]

In 6 years, you’ll most likely be able to finish a 2 year degree, and possibly a 4 year. Start early, keep taking courses, and don’t stop.

[white vortex]

CompSci or Cyber Sec?

[vital wyvern]

I got a 99 on the ASVAB and ended up playing with explosives. Your ASVAB has no guarantee on your job placement past the minimums.

[fringe sphinx]

Also, everything the recruiter says is a lie. MEPS (if they still call it that) is a well oiled machine.

[smoky quest]

compsci is the classic. cyber sec would be more school/program dependent

[white vortex]

So should I enlist into the Space Force directly?

I believe they have more cyber operations iirc

[vital wyvern]

I'm not sure how... you intend to do it any other way.

The branch isn't wildly critical-- every branch has some level of participation in the cyber field.

I don't have a wild amount of experience with job selection; I came in on a guaranteed contract for a Special Operations career field, so we had a bit of a different experience in that regard.

[white vortex]

Sounds like there is a lot of luck involved

[fringe sphinx]

Just be very well prepared and understand that they’re trying to sell you something. You have leverage, even if it doesn’t feel that way. You can say ‘no, I don’t want to be a xyz specialty’. You might not get your first pick, but you can say no to bad options. Different specialties have different enlistment terms too.

[fringe sphinx]

The specialties offered also depend on demand at the time: at my time, my top pick was unavailable but my second pick was, and it ended up being a good one.

(But to rem’s point: perhaps it doesn’t matter anyway)

[modern lark]

What source did you use when learning python? I'm currently reading the python crash course and wonder if theres more sources to follow along to learn

[fringe sphinx]

!resource There's a bunch of learning material here for different skill levels

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[high narwhal]

For any freelancers, what were some of your most recent jobs? What were u asked to make and what was the deadline? Was it for a company, small group, or solo developer? dms or @me here is fine

[gritty rivet]

The last time I got a freelance job was to edit a student paper or something. Trying to get hired as a Python dev is basically impossible with the level of competition out there.

If you search the history here there are people who do it though

[hearty island]

it's tough

[steady pumice]

would anyone who works in the computer science field be interested in doing a short interview with me? It wouldn't take that long but I need an interview for one of my classes. dm if interested

i have a few questions and i would just need a short response for each

[harsh river]

@summer roost sorry for ping, how can i run a python script via gdb?

[smoky quest]

A CS degree will be the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation to do that

[harsh river]

[summer roost]

did you mean to ask this in #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval?

[harsh river]

ah, what the hell, idk how i got to carreer discussion

[spare ridge]

Guys outside of India, do u people have the same stream thing, like after you pass 10 grade you take one subject and you can't enter the other field?

Like if I have commerce in my 12 grade, will there be any problem in doing Bachelor's in computer science in your country, just curious

[weak kindle]

In many countries there is flexibility in choosing subjects for higher education, some degree programs may have specific prerequisites and it's often possible to switch fields between high school and university

[spare ridge]

I see, I wanted to know about the western education system do they allow it? Like for example Harvard Stanford etc

[weak kindle]

I don't have the answer to that question. some of here will reply shortly

[deft herald]

High school (grades 9-12) is structured differently in the US. It's really just a general education and you don't really get to specialize in anything yet. You do have the option however to take AP (advanced placement) courses which may count as a prerequisite in college, or you could take a dual credit course with a local community college which will actually count as credit hours towards a degree

So really, anyone going into college is assumed to have the same base level of education

I believe in India you get more of a specialized route before college right?

[spare ridge]

Correct after you are done with 10 grade you get to choose 3 paths

Do u think that in USA they would restrict me in entering bachelor's in computer science? If I'm having an different sort of background

[deft herald]

I'm not sure. I doubt it

[crisp stream]

People can and do switch streams after 11th, 12th or even the first year of uni

Granted it's harder, but it's not unheard of

[valid forge]

As I am self learning Data science , and currently enrolled in a bachelor's of engineering physics (which is totally different ), which are some valuable and worth having certifications to match that level in Data Science and be recognised when applying for placements. (apart from having a good portfolio and skillsets)

[deft herald]

Why are you doing physics then? Can you change majors?

[valid forge]

Nope not allowed in India .

Actually i do have a interest in physics but overtime I changed my mind for getting into DataScience

[deft herald]

What year are you?

[valid forge]

currently 3rd year and expelled for 1 semester.😢

[deft herald]

Oof

That's wild to me that you're not allowed to change

[valid forge]

I am pursuing my degree form NIT which is pretty renowned over here in India.

[valid forge]

yess that's really bad . But i can opt for masters in Other branches.

For that i need to clear one more competitive exam called GATE , in that particular branch i wish to choose .

[deft herald]

Ah I see that you sometimes can, you just need to meet certain criteria

[valid forge]

oh yes I could have changed it in 1st yr but I needed a perfect 10 cgpa.

[keen delta]

Hello, I am a first-year data analytics student, are there any free courses, books, or certifications that I can attend related to Python or data analytics/science? I just finished reading the book for basics of Python, and I'm interested in further expanding my knowledge of it.

[blazing harbor]

How is your math background

[keen delta]

basic calculus, statistic and probability. physics, basically STEM math

[blazing harbor]

Are you interested in data engineering/ ml/ai

[keen delta]

ya machine learning / ai is good for me

[rigid wigeon]

I am looking for someone who is good with python who would like to do something challenging.

I am working on a project and look for someone who would like to join.

[turbid bobcat]

Ah, with the other resume I was at least getting rejection responses, now I get the feeling Ill just be ghosted ._.

[grizzled cobalt]

Hi all, any suggestions for a Python beginner or any path to follow?

[pulsar wedge]

Wondering the same thing honestly

[brazen bone]

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[west grove]

https://roadmap.sh/python
Thoughts on this as a roadmap?
Also, do you guys recommend MIT CS 6.001 (and 6.002) as an introduction to python? I've made some detailed notes about the first six lectures and they're finally getting into some confusing stuff like recursion. The later lectures (especially in the second part of the course) teach classification and stuff. Is it worth it?
Or should I take a slower pace and master python first before jumping into ML through the course?

[fringe sphinx]

This was asked yesterday, my answer was: #python-discussion message

[fringe sphinx]

I think it's a mistake to worry about "topics to learn" until you're comfortable writing small projects in Python. If you stay focused on: getting good at solving coding problems, you'll develop the fundamental problem solving skills and everything else will come easy

There are many intro tutorials. If you're academically minded, CS50P is a popular program... and there's several variants (CS50 for AI, in particular).

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[fringe sphinx]

Has more choices. Automate the Boring Stuff and A Byte of Python are very good and simple ebooks, not overwhelming and gives you what you need to get started.

So, my roadmap is: Complete a basic tutorial / learn the basics, while writing code / experimenting. Do some small projects, very small at first... ie: rock paper scissors. Then, pick your head up and ask: What's next?

[west grove]

Sounds like a good idea. I'm returning to python (although I was never really 'decent' at it). Found this site useful back then: practicepython.org
Might use that to practice along with lectures and stuff

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, 100%. There's also exercism and codewars (I'm not recommending any particular one, just fyi)

[west grove]

although I'm pretty sure I can grind out these lectures in a day or so and my notes are comprehensive enough to suffice as revision

[west grove]

will check em out, cheers (damn slowmode is annoying)

[fringe sphinx]

Also: hang out in #python-discussion . If you get stuck or have a technical question, there's a lot of people at all levels there.

[west grove]

Cheers. But as principle i try to figure it out on my own first unless its something I've never seen before. In the end, I'm practicing not to code but to develop my problem solving skills as a programmer.

[fringe sphinx]

Yup, I meant more for "why" questions (ie: why does python do xyz? what the heck are dunders? etc)

[west grove]

ah (what the heck are dunders?)

Anyways, thanks a lot dude. Feel far more confident now that it doesnt feel like I have to study the entirety of python just to get my feet on the ground

[fringe sphinx]

how dunder methods rule Python ... conference videos, like europython, are great resources too

[fringe sphinx]

Also, since you'll eventually ask about IDEs: #python-discussion message

[west grove]

I've used thonny before but im just using pycharm rn cause it doesnt really matter how complex the editor is when all i need is highlighting and the run command

[leaden oak]

hi, i just finished highschool last year and im wondering if its possible to land jobs like web development or cloud engineering with certs instead of getting a degree in iT or CompSci?

and does it really matter if i get just certs rather than a degree in the software field

[true harness]

A CS degree will be the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation
is it possible to get a job with only certs? yes. is it very difficult? yes.

[leaden oak]

and is it better to get an iT degree rather then certs

[hearty island]

a cs degree's your best bet

[leaden oak]

i’ve gotten accepted to njit for info tech so i’m wondering if i should just stay and peruse it rather than switching into CS n make things complicated

[fringe sphinx]

Just depends on what you want to do. Career-wise

[regal axle]

What is actually your goal? Just a job or a specific type of job. Based on that, we can give more specific advice

IT degrees are really good for IT work. But CS degrees have more general value.

[safe locust]

how can i get remote job from india i am currently in 3rd. year and i want a remote job which i can do from INDIA.

[pine sleet]

A remote job based in the US or in India?

[safe locust]

i am from india and i want any type of internship you can say. it would be better if its outside india i can get paid or certificate and all.

so that i can add that experience in my resume.

[pine sleet]

Okay. You should try looking for remote internships in India, but generally employers prefer that their interns be in person for better guidance

[safe locust]

i cna understand but how shall i do that i just wanna know that and i dont wanna do freelancing just internship type of work

[pine sleet]

I'm not sure if universities in India have career centers, but if you do, they may have some stuff for you. Other than that you can look on LinkedIn or Indeed.

[safe locust]

i am not dependend on my college for internship or even college because here 5k students are there for CS/IT and the students who even dont know to write hello world they are getting internship and placed.

[mint oracle]

Getting placed in the time of recession without knowledge is strange for me

[pine sleet]

The job market is probably different there

[safe locust]

thats wht happening here bruh thats hwy i was thinking that i can get and experience from outside INDIA so that i can have better experience section in my resume

[pine sleet]

Well, if they can get placed into internships it should be relatively simple for you

[mint oracle]

Nope india has 1.4 billion popl.

[pine sleet]

I'm not seeing how the population has to do with whether their tech sector is in "recession" or not

[mint oracle]

Lot of population means lot of competition
everyone want's more!

[pine sleet]

Ok. They've always had a lot of people and a lot of competition, it's not something that's recently changed (like it is in the US)

[safe locust]

how it can be simple for me ?

DELL company came to my college for summer inter and it was my dream to get in but idk how college did random shortlisting my name even didn't came in the list.

[pine sleet]

Did you go up and talk to the people who came? Ask if they've got any open positions?

[mint oracle]

discuss and ask for feedback why my resume is not selected with college officals

[scenic rapids]

Hi guys, do you all know where the best place to find a good Python Dev is? I'm not sure if there is a channel here for job postings...We are in need of a really good guy/gal and would love to give someone a great opportunity.

[safe locust]

i really dont care for them i can share their resume literally in their resume it was like

skills => cpp , java , hindi, english, python, and all

[safe locust]

they have differents excuses like you must have not filled the form correctly, email or something like that

wtf

[pine sleet]

Hi, we don't do recruiting in this server. If you're just looking for one off, Upwork or Fiverr would be better. LinkedIn for longer term employment

[pine sleet]

We do resume reviews here, by the way

[safe locust]

can i share mine ?

[vapid jay]

I’m from india and I want to pursue my bachelor’s degree in cse abroad many websites I referred got different approaches idk what to do also I’m totally inexperienced in this

[pine sleet]

Don't underestimate networking. Thats maybe hie many of the other people who you say don't have any skills get in

[pine sleet]

Yes, just remove any personal info

[safe locust]

kidhar se hai bhai INDIA me ?

[vapid jay]

Tamil Nadu hai

[safe locust]

yes that thing can be said. they might have some connections

[safe locust]

can i share in dm ?

[pine sleet]

Right. People underestimate connections and soft skills all the time. It's not just about coding, anyone can learn to write code easily

[pine sleet]

Post it here so everyone can review

[mint oracle]

what's about ur college placement?

[hearty island]

ooooooh IIT, nice. my dad went to iit kharagpur iirc

[safe locust]

so basically i made 2 resume
1 for SDE based company and
second one for data science based.

[hearty island]

first thing that jumps out to me is capitalization and part of the formatting is weird

[safe locust]

nice bruh great

[safe locust]

people says its cool

ok so please check the resume i will back after dinner. @pine sleet and if possible can you dm what to improve and all.

[mint oracle]

It's good for u!

[safe locust]

others can also give review please.

[scenic rapids]

Thank you for the advice!

[mint oracle]

I think u can give more leetcode contest and try to improve ur rank 1700+

why ur intership is only one months
is it task based internship?

[near ocean]

Most people dont even do leetcode contests
Thats not the problem

[mint oracle]

It gives u more content to write on resume

[near ocean]

Their resume is packed, leetcode is noise at that point

[mint oracle]

I am saying that his leetcode rank is around 1650 so in 1-2 contest they can easily achieve 1700+ rank

[near ocean]

But thats irrelevant and not going to help them get a job

[mint oracle]

yeah

[near ocean]

The resume looks fine, i imagine the issue is behavioural

[mint oracle]

May be

||Atleast he has internship experience in its resume i have no experience yet! sad||

[mint oracle]

i am going to graduate this yr and i am going for master but i have no internship experience. In future when i will go for applying job/internship is it consider a drawback?

[hearty island]

i would say yeah, not having experience to draw back on is a tough sell

[mint oracle]

i am thinking to apply for internship in my master

[hearty island]

a lot of grad school counselors i've talked to have mentioned the importance of internships and stuff like that to me. my friend who recently got into UMD mentioned how it was the first question they asked him

[mint oracle]

I don't get any good opportunities
For master here we need to pass entrance exam

[hearty island]

what country are you in, if you don't mind me asking

i see

[mint oracle]

Yeah!

[mint oracle]

The main problem is that I don't have an engineering degree

[hearty island]

i see

[mint oracle]

That's why i am going for master

[safe locust]

fine ok bruh.
yes kinda it was track based thast why i was searching for an intern. so that i can have good experience can you please help bruh

[snow raft]

hey guys, is my resume good for new grad positions for swe?

i also have a paper i co-authored and worked on for my ml research, that is going to be shown at CISCA/IEEE.

and going to a master's program part time for data science. did not include them

[true harness]

"MongDB" in skills

[snow raft]

lol, i understand. she gone. besides that, thoughts if you dont mind?

[smoky quest]

the lead backend developer would raise the bs detector

[vapid jay]

If I got like 20 certs would that be really valuable for my career? Like if I got all the AWS certs, all the Kubernetes certs, etc

I feel like on some level somebody's gotta care

[fringe sphinx]

Not really, I think beyond 2-3, I'd discount them / would be a negative.

[turbid bobcat]

How did you go from intern to a lead role directly ?

[true harness]

it seems hackmerced is a club they are a part of at school

[turbid bobcat]

Oh makes sense then

But does that still qualify as work experience

[white relic]

it's experience, for something that wasn't part of their coursework, I think it's fine to list it as "relevant experience".

Everybody knows it's not real experience unless you hate doing it /s

[fading jewel]

when i try to open my code into a browser for html, it says the connection is not secuure for the site

[white relic]

that doesn't sound like a career related question. If it has something to do with Python, try in python-discusson, or opening a help thread: #❓｜how-to-get-help

[turbid bobcat]

I've heard more dystopian things be spoken tbh

[merry drift]

Any beginner looking for a project? Dm me, I have a side project in progress

[peak halo]

We don't allow messages like this, since the unstated "side project" might not have any value for the participant, or might be monetized.

[blazing harbor]

I feel like your objective is way too long

[astral ermine]

Looking for general career advice. I've been a DS at a health insurance company for a little over a year now remotely. My boss says my work is great and openly says they depends on me a lot, so I figure a promotion may come up. However it feels like a carrot on a stick situation cause they've been saying this for a while. During the time I've been working I've also been applying to other jobs, mostly using the Easy Apply feature on LinkedIn and Indeed. However, I've not had many people reach back so my resume likely needs rework.
Should I hold out and wait for the promo, or focus on my resume, portfolio, network, etc. ?
I've heard it's easier to find another DS position once you're a Senior DS.

[buoyant seal]

Feel free to drop anonymized resume to check, perhaps advices how to improve it can be given.
Or what u are missing to learn in order to reach Middle rank expertise and etc.

I want to mention that if your work as DS is only a year and there is no other job experiance / qualitifications backing up, then highly likely you are still very many years behind til u rich DS seniority.
Usually software engineers at least do not become senior earlier than 4-5 years of work at least. And that's super super fast time frames that is rarely present.

Should I hold out and wait for the promo, or focus on my resume, portfolio, network, etc. ?
i can recommend several possible paths

1. polishing resume and making evaluation where you are is not bad in any case, in order to build trajector for impvement til next levels
2. just talk to boss/manager whatever regarding the promotion, how u can reach it and etc. Communicating problem is very nice to do to solve it. Problems aren't solved if u don't voice them and say as problems. They can't read your mind.

Then depending on outcomes of those combined paths makes sense planing next steps (if they will be even needed at all. May be u will reevaluate that no action is necessary to take)

[astral ermine]

Thank you for your advice 🙂
It its reassuring to read. I'll consider talking with my boss again come April, since they said that's when those decisions are made.

[snow raft]

@turbid bobcat @smoky quest it's a local hackathon club, my school is not that big. I am one of the best programmers in the school, I took a leading role because I knew the most out of everybody who applied. I also, do nothing in my free time but try to be a better programmer and work on my professional development

[lean nest]

I'm doing middle grade vocational training on microinformatics and local networks, After two years I will be able to choose between web application development, multiplatform application development and network technician

What do you recommend me?

[wind crystal]

New to js should I learn Vue or svelte

[harsh river]

this is a python question, your question might be better suited to an JS server.

[last oriole]

Do i need to show the project i mention in my resume to the company i am getting interviewd? (I have zero interview exp)

[wheat ocean]

one question, i recently started to learn python, i will graduate high school in 2026. is it possible to then study something cs related?

[last oriole]

Yes i think

[mint oracle]

Most probably no, mostly they ask question from ur project!

[last oriole]

Ok thank you i asked because i mention a project in my resume and i lost that project.

[wheat ocean]

oh really? thats great news.

i was a bit worried because a lot of people who do cs/want to do cs already started programming at like 10 years of age and already are so good

[last oriole]

I started learning programming 3 years ago in college

[fringe sphinx]

Don’t worry about other people: imposter syndrome is a common feeling when you’re getting started. https://www.google.com/search?q=imposter+syndrome+site%3Areddit.com%2Fr%2Flearnprogramming

[fringe sphinx]

Complete a tutorial, and start coding small projects (like rock paper scissors), and keep coding small projects, and you’ll get good.

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[hazy eagle]

Hi all.

[gray bolt]

Hello

[wheat ocean]

i guess i am slightly afraid of being ridiculed of and not being taken seriously because coding wasnt my sole interest and focus since childhood, people thinking i do it for money atec

[deft herald]

If you're learning how to program in high school, you're already ahead of the game. You're fine

[gritty sage]

Yo im pythoning

Im taking computer science for college and looking to take it for University, what extracurricular stuff shoukd i do?

[deft herald]

Learn VCS like git

[gritty sage]

O whats VCS

[deft herald]

version control

[true harness]

around a third of incoming cs students haven't programmed before

[gritty sage]

Oh i did that for IT in school for my project

[wheat ocean]

i think this feeling is mostly based on what i have heard about what the attitude is towards women in it and cs industry

also the fact that it isnt really a typical career for women and some of my family ridicules me for even attempting to learn to program

[deft herald]

Eh that's too bad. Think of this as the opportunity to prove them wrong! 😉

[fringe sphinx]

My mother was a software engineer. And I'm old.

I've worked with, hired, etc many women engineers. Some very successful ones. In big tech, I think my team was about 40% women. It was well-represented: it's a very viable career path.

[buoyant seal]

wow. that's extremely huge number. as far as i know in average this % is between 5-10% in IT industry.
Probably your company was on purpose targeting to hire women then to balance things

[wheat ocean]

i definitely know that there women who do cs stuff, heck the only tweo people i know of that study what i am intrested in (bioinformatics) are women but still it is discouraginf´g when someone especially as close as your mother doesnt approve much of what you are interested in (dad is quite supportive - so much that only things he wants me to study is cs, medicine or law lol)

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, sorry, I should be clear that the numbers vary greatly by company. I've had companies where it's in the 10% range. Occasionally I see startups or small companies that are 100% male, but my belief this is not because of hiring bias but because there's fewer candidates.

[fringe sphinx]

Hah, your parents sound like me. I have a teen daughter, I think she should go into medicine. But that's because she likes those gross "dr pimple popper" type shows.

[fringe sphinx]

Thinking about it... I think there's some correlation between company size and female engineer ratio. Curious if there's data on this.

[noble socket]

Hi everyone, I'm learning Django after I had little experience in Frontend. As for me, I liked Django so much but I heard it's easier to get a job in Frontend. Is it hard to land a first job in Backend or should I firstly go into Frontend?

[vernal berry]

Hey, i am currently studying statistics and just finished the first semester so i pretty much have a good understanding about propability distrbution sampling etc. I kinda have like 2 months free now so im thinking about taking a intensive python course for data science. You got any recommendations?

[peak halo]

can you take any courses like that as part of your university education?

[vernal berry]

My university works mostly with R and i wont be doing that until the 3rd semester

Thats when programming comes in

[last oriole]

true

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied timeout to @onyx monolith until <t:1706725527:f> (10 minutes) (reason: emoji spam - sent 23 emojis).

The <@&831776746206265384> have been alerted for review.

[crisp stream]

We're not a job board.

[leaden merlin]

Hi Guys,
Just need an advice, my current job is IT support and I'm already 6 years in this job. And I really want to transition to be a programmer. I have strong knowledge "I believe" as almost all the personal projects I was able to think is I able to complete them myself.
I just find it hard to find a junior developers role when it comes to Golang & Python. I have experience with Golang & Python for almost 3 years now because I have developed a private server game.
Is there's any thing that I need to do beside massively applying to all job post that I can see? is it worth to take a certifications?

[peak halo]

@fair frost your message was removed, as soliciting work is not allowed.

[peak halo]

I'd be interested to hear from people who have hired IT specialists into dev roles. It seems like that's a circumstance where a certification might actually have some value?

[leaden merlin]

to be honest I already applied like into 100 jobs post online but it seems no one wants to trust to a person that have no work experience in developer role xD

[buoyant seal]

Is there's any thing that I need to do beside massively applying to all job post that I can see? is it worth to take a certifications?
having portfolio web site / a way to present that you made something with them will help you significantly on your path

[leaden merlin]

Thanks man!

[buoyant seal]

What were your IT support duties / common tasks during those 6 years?
What are most significant tasks u made?

[leaden merlin]

Just a typical it support like more on office365, application support, managing users, monitoring then in case there's like a backend issue we just escalate those issue to our develoeprs. but sometimes instead of escalating the issues since i know how to code then i do it my self to ease the workload of our developers.

but I learn more coding just by myself, like i develop launchers, bots, game trainers and host own game sever.

[buoyant seal]

sounds to me like you are half way to SRE/Devops engineering role potentially.
This role can variate in amount of development experience from 0% to 70%+ percentage as different companies understand a bit different stuff

But basically it is role defining Infrastructure as a code, usually in AWS/GCP/Azure, with Terraform/Pulumi/Kubernetes for usually ummutable deployments
There is some more baremetal set of tech though available, Ansible/SaltStack/Puppet + Vagrant and other virtualization
This role includes configuring monitoring systems, and doing monitoring itself, and escalating issues.... to.... usually themselves. If some stack is beyond infrastructure expertise, then escalating again to developers 😅

Common to take care of configuring and maintaining CI CD systems, as well as tuning stuff with scripting, in order to bypass limitations of different tools and having workflow exactly as desired

According to Google View onto SRE https://sre.google/books/
Operational duties should not be taking more than 50% of SRE/Devops engineer. The rest of time he should be automating the processes/improving stuff only in automated way to decrease toll or achieving other infrastructure goals

============
What are requirements?
Learning Infrastructure as a code tools of course. 😅
Very beneficial to have experience with major cloud providers like AWS/GCP/Azure
Otherwise path to baremetal deployment tech stack is available too

Docker Deep Dive https://www.amazon.com/Docker-Deep-Dive-Nigel-Poulton/dp/1916585256 is a good place to start for any path

Terraform/Pulumi is for Cloud path.
Ansible/Salt stack is common for Baremetal path (some do it in cloud too though, with just using VMs from cloud)
Kubernetes is common for both paths. more for later stage

[leaden merlin]

Yes, I'm currently learning azure now and will go learn kuberenetes next. I have background in docker but will learn them as well as they needed
As of now i only took free courses in Linkedin. Is there's any cheap courses should I take, I'm just like in a tight budget 100$ in philippines for a certification is big xD

[buoyant seal]

not recommending too much hurrying up to kubernetes if you chose Azure/cloud path
Take care of learning Docker and then Terraform first. This is more important milestones
Terraform can automate Azure all operations with cloud provider, defining servers,dbs,networks, permissions,dns and etc

[leaden merlin]

Thank you mate.

1. Azure
2. TeraForm
3. Docker
4. Kubernetes

Is this all correct ? Do you have any prefer website where I can learn those as I just prefer learning them online than reading books. Not a bookworm here sorry.

[buoyant seal]

1. Docker / Compose
2. Terraform + Azure. learn at the same time

• Learn raising computing instances, managed relational databases, configuring networking, permissions, dns stuff, lambda analogs
• learn writing reusable terraform modules, having them reused from another repository to others

3. Github Actions i guess highly likely will be used together with Azure. Same microsoft after all

• I heard about Azure DevOps pipelines... yeah, looks like they can be highly likely used too for azure too.
• okay, learn Github Actions + Azure Devops to build docker images, test and deploy automatically. Since u learned Docker and Terraform/Azure on previous step, u should be already to this step.
• learn docker images building into azure docker registry and deploying from it to some targets

4. during GH/Azure Devops usage, u should get hang of helping yourself with scripting in python/golang. Building reusable actions.
   Same scripting can be needed in azure lambdas / castomizing stuff to setup things
5. Learn using Azure monitoring/logging systems
6. then feel free to dive into Kubernetes. Leave k8s for desert

[leaden merlin]

Bro, thank you so much for all of this! You just dont have any idea how will this help me!

[spiral sparrow]

Do you need to be a computer science majors to do software engineering

[fringe sphinx]

CS is the most common major. But other majors do end up in SWE jobs.

[spiral sparrow]

Like what other majors as I am a cyber major and want to fit that stuff

[deft herald]

My degree was in Electrical Engineering

[fringe sphinx]

Pretty much anything from EE, CE, CS, some schools offer a software engineer degree, stats, math, bioinformatics, etc. I’ve worked with a number of physicists too.

[spiral sparrow]

Make sense as does my major even count for that then

[deft herald]

What is "cyber"?

[spiral sparrow]

relating to or characteristic of the culture of computers, information technology, and virtual reality.
"the cyber age"

[deft herald]

https://tenor.com/view/driving-tesla-cybertruck-marques-brownlee-on-the-way-otw-windows-down-gif-17802416152908500659

[fringe sphinx]

Can you link to the school/degree program?

[spiral sparrow]

It is a useless degree

[deft herald]

What country are you in?

[fringe sphinx]

I assume it’s either an IT degree with some security components or a modified CS program.

[spiral sparrow]

https://www.gatech.edu/academics/degrees/masters/cybersecurity-ms-cybersecurity# as I am USA

[fringe sphinx]

What’s your undergrad in?

[spiral sparrow]

Cyber security

[deft herald]

Why don't you change your major then?

[spiral sparrow]

Because I graduated

[deft herald]

oh lol

[fringe sphinx]

If you have an undergrad, but want to respecialize then pick a different masters.

[spiral sparrow]

Okay

[fringe sphinx]

Do you already have the masters?

[deft herald]

Yeah you could definitely get a masters. I think you have a relevant-enough degree to go into SWE now though, as long as you can prove your skills

[spiral sparrow]

Masters in cyber

[spiral sparrow]

I do feel like I can but do not know the algorithms

[fringe sphinx]

So you have a bachelors and masters in cyber security, to be clear? So the question is how to get into SWE with that education?

[spiral sparrow]

Yes

[deft herald]

Oh you already have the MS degree? What's your bachelor's in?

was it with a different uni?

[spiral sparrow]

Cyber security

[fringe sphinx]

So sounds like you have the same question most people do: how do I prepare for SWE jobs? This depends on your programming experience.

[buoyant seal]

in this plan make sure to make the most focus onto exploring deeply Azure/Terraform combo i guess
And get if there are any available certificates from Azure about your knowledge.
it should help greatly too
Out of this stuff Azure is the biggest topic to get pretty much

Docker is small, terraform is small too, learning GH/DevOps azure pipelines should not be a big topic too
But Azure itself is likely having dozens of services, with reaching up to 200 of different stuff
Just getting hang of ths most common stuff like 20-30 things should make the most important impact here i think

P.S. also we can add here that it is commonly expected having hang of relational dbs / and even non sql dbs.
Just for setup / maintanance / monitoring at least

[spiral sparrow]

Make sense as my programming experience is c++ and python

[fringe sphinx]

I would think you’d get some looks / interviews with a cybersec degree, if you have programming experience to balance it out.

[leaden merlin]

Thank you sir! will focus on this one. I have made my decision now to train my self first for a month. Then find a job after that.

[buoyant seal]

yeah, people when seek SRE/DevOps engineers are usually seeking people with at least a year experience of working in big cloud provider (or more, 3-5 and etc)
So it would help a lot having certs from Azure to backup lack of this experience at least somehow

[spiral sparrow]

Make sense as thank you for telling me

[leaden merlin]

Got it sir. Will surely do that. Any specific certification you recommend or azure Administrator Certification (AZ-104) is enough?

[buoyant seal]

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/credentials/certifications/exams/az-204/
There are official exams available from Azure. That what people will wish to see
Not very free exams.

[leaden merlin]

Thank you ❤️

[buoyant seal]

towards DevOps path, it will be beneficial having Administrator and/or Developer certs, and then DevOps engineer cert accordingly.
Developer + Operations = DevOps 😅

[spiral sparrow]

Did you become that way

[buoyant seal]

is it question to me?

[spiral sparrow]

Yes

[vapid jay]

Can I get a developer job without a university degree in India?

[buoyant seal]

my path was different. i am Master's degree graduated dev, that became Backend one first, and was just taking care of infra in addition / became fan of Linux / self studying a lot
There was no one willing to take care of infra... so i got those duties.
So... I had a lot of self studies after university. Besides backend duties (and even doing a bit front), learning docker, terraform, gitlab CI, kubernetes.
Pretty much the stuff i described above in #career-advice message , except AWS instead of azure, and i have strong fundamentals in development
As Developer with strong... infrastructure as tools knowledge, got accepted into company that have autoscaling cloud stuff to maximum, and from there i started to have unlimited amount of AWS and other infra stuff, working as one of three DevOps engineers to manage as a code infrastructure for 50+ devs and 50-100k$ costs per months
That made me married towards DevOps job role/team pretty much

[spiral sparrow]

Make sense as thank you for telling me

[fringe sphinx]

If only we’d get paid $$ for any AWS savings we achieved. That’d be some motivation!

[buoyant seal]

One of the motivations for learning infrastructure as a code tools for me was my laziness and limits of my human brain memory capacity @spiral sparrow
When all infra duties on you, u get overwhelmed with remembering too much stuff.
Than more u make it as a code and automated working on your own, then more u can throw out of your head

I started with just regular... run script, that will execute commands over SSH to redeploy back front...
then improved with Docker, with Ansible, with Gitlab CI... with terraform... and so on and so on

[spiral sparrow]

Do agreed

Thank you for telling me

[vestal solar]

Anything about Boston Dynamics?

[deft herald]

What?

[tulip pine]

How do I get into a python entry level job without studying computer engineering, no one replys to curriculums

[smoky quest]

do you want replies about curriculums?

In terms of career, a CS degree is the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[balmy spade]

I agree. The degree path is the path of least resistance. Without it you still pour just as much effort (often more) into learning the skills needed, and the communication skills needed, and the social skills needed.
Oh, and finding something that is demonstratable experience as well.

[deft herald]

Yeah. It's basically asking "how do I get a job that requires education without any education?"
The answer is "educate yourself"

[pulsar wedge]

Wise words

[safe coral]

why do you have cyber security? It can be really fun. It is also a high demand area. I did my undergrad in CyberS + Data Sci

[spiral sparrow]

Reason why it took me 5 years and trying to see within my company and asked if I can do data scientist and told me I cannot since I do not have a cs degree

[safe coral]

ohhhhh. You can get a DS degree if youd like

its always good to mix degrees tho. I did CyberSec and DataSci for my undergrad and Im doing masters in CS

[dusty moon]

Is it possible for a Bachelor's CS graduate from a non-Ivy League institution to secure an entry-level position, or has that window of opportunity closed?

[true harness]

no, companies unconditionally reject stanford, berkeley, cmu, and mit grads

[hearty island]

/s

[hearty island]

of course, you just need to apply enough with the right resume and the right kind of stuff they're looking for + a bit of luck

ooh this might be good

[dusty moon]

This month, I submitted applications for 100 jobs and received two invitations for interviews. However, I never heard back from the employers after interviewing for two data analyst roles. Is this normal?

[regal axle]

Unfortunately not uncommon. But maybe you should have your resume reviewed

[dusty moon]

Already made the required modifications.

[regal axle]

They really like to ghost people. And also right now not a lot of entry hiring

[hearty island]

they take a long time to respond

[true harness]

2/100 isn't bad, all things considered

[dusty moon]

@regal axle I thought as much.

[true harness]

i mean, after 8 years, it's probably not a volume issue

[hearty island]

it is prob a resume issue

[dusty moon]

Remember to include Python and SQL in resume, those are the most popular languages.

[regal axle]

If you have 8 years experience, you should probably have less things not more. Just the few things you really specialize in

[hearty island]

"Thank you for applying and for expressing interest in the Analyst opportunity at Tegus. We are grateful for your interest in working for our company, and we appreciate the time and effort you put into applying for our job opening.

After a Talent Acquisition Specialist carefully reviewed your application, we regret to inform you that you were not selected by our team to move forward in the next round of our interview process. While your qualifications are impressive, we are looking to hire full-time employees as soon as possible for this position and plan to consider 2024 graduates during the spring season.

That said, we will keep your resume on hand and will follow up with you in the spring (March or April) to revisit your application. In the meantime, please do not hesitate to reach out should you have any questions.

Thank you again for your interest in joining us. We look forward to revisiting your application & reconnecting with you in the spring!" 💀

yah, fuck that noise

[dusty moon]

The field of computer science is indeed highly competitive and saturated.

[hearty island]

lmaoooo

[smoky quest]

not saturated. Great people still find jobs without too much problem

[hearty island]

why did i read protein? i think i'm hungry

today my friend told me to pay $100 for a bot to auto apply on linkedin to like a hundred jobs... i looked at her like she had three heads

oh she also said to apply to each job under 6 different emails 😭

[dusty moon]

@hearty island Why 6 emails?

[hearty island]

no idea, ig to get a better chance of an acceptance? highly unethical tho imo

maybe it did work out for her tho lmaooo, i think she got an internship at jpmc.

[strange nova]

Hey

How should I change my resume? More projects and make the skills and certifications take less vertical space?

[dusty moon]

@strange nova I recommend incorporating additional details regarding the projects. The amount of projects is fine.

Or 1 big software engineering project. Consider condensing the Certifications and skills section to a single line.

[fringe sphinx]

Agree with above. And, some of those certs seem not worth mentioning. "Introduction to Git and GitHub"? Better to mention you used git in one of the jobs or projects.

[strange nova]

Haha 😄 okay thanks

[dusty moon]

https://tenor.com/view/mgs-sorrow-snakeeater-gif-27623898

[pine sleet]

way too much vertical space going to certs and skills

[strange nova]

Working on it!

Fudge, My neck hurts I need to take a break

[pine sleet]

also your projects say what they are. It's more important to show impact

[strange nova]

I'm trying to make them demonstrate skills and expand on them yeah like recursive error and others said

And tell a bit more about the trading company

[strange nova]

How am I doing so far?

[pine sleet]

Still feels too "what" oriented

[true harness]

you should look up how to write a good bullet point. as you have it currently, no one wants to read 4 big blobs of text. they're just going to gloss over it. also, as robin said, it's just too low level for the audience. you should try to answer "so what?", not "what?"

[mortal wedge]

I have what's probably a stupid question, but... it's not normal for a company to promise you something compensation related and not follow through on it, right?

Or is this just a regular thing I have to get used to?

Waited patiently for a year on additional compensation promised by the company president. Wasn't sure if I was ever going to see it and I assumed that if it ever materialized it would be backdated to the date of the promise.

Found out I am getting something today, but for far less than what was promised and nothing is being backdated.

My partner says all companies are like this and I should get used to it, but... I feel like if/when companies make promises to employees regarding compensation (in writing/contract or otherwise) and they don't follow through that should be a bad business practice.

[dreamy shadow]

Unless it's written down, all verbal promises of compensation aren't worth anything

[deft herald]

The good CEOs and Presidents know how to make good sounding promises but are actually very empty and never involve specifics

Like "we're working on increasing our overall compensation package" as opposed to "everyone will get a 15% raise next year"

[fringe sphinx]

Mixed opinions: it’s not normal, and I never (willingly) put myself in a ‘future promises’ situation. I and every company I’ve worked at, avoid these situations by promising nothing.

But, it’s not unheard of, but I find it bad and distasteful: not normal just not unusual, I guess

[dreamy shadow]

It's usually popular in startups

[mortal wedge]

In hindsight I'm a dumbass for just trusting that they were working on it for this many months after the fact. Yes, I'm at a startupish company

[fringe sphinx]

Wrong channel

[fringe sphinx]

Don’t blame yourself for someone else being shitty.

Also: when someone shows you their true colors, believe them (maya angelou, i think)

[mortal wedge]

So, I have another question/thought. The field I'm in has sort of... transformed while I've been in it. I'm a software engineer focused on research and development for medical technlogy/medical devices. So I've always branded myself and searched for postings related to software engineer in R&D or algorithm engineer. But now every position I search for with those terms come up with saying something about using AI or language models. Unsure if I need to learn more about AI/language models, if it's just buzz words, if this is industry specific or what. Has anyone else experienced/noticed this seeming surge of popularity/usage of AI?

[deft herald]

Yes. Everyone is trying to figure out how to use AI in their product

[fringe sphinx]

It’s insane, but for sure. The question is how to ‘upskill’ without wasting time on stuff that you’ll never touch.

My theory is LLMs is a dead end, but LSTM/RNN is a happy place

(Dead end for career skills, but that’s just my views

[mortal wedge]

I'm so tired of seeing LLM in job postings that should have nothing to do with them, lol

[fringe sphinx]

Agree, Nlp feature extraction is cool tho.

[mortal wedge]

Oh, for sure.

[summer roost]

it's fine to just not apply to those jobs

[mortal wedge]

My problem is that I'm seeing this in like.... most of my job postings, but that might be field specific?

[fringe sphinx]

I wonder if companies are adding it to increase application rates, not because it’s a skill they are hiring for (cynical take for sure)

[summer roost]

I was about to say basically that with more words

I'd argue that's not even the worst case scenario. The worst case scenario is that it's a skill they're hiring for because they don't realize that it's a bad way to solve their problems

being asked to do something impossible with AI sounds worse to me than being tricked into doing something not related to AI, heh

[mortal wedge]

This is just my take from the interviews I've had, but my feeling is that nobody is really sure about its capabilities or limitations and just know that they don't want to get left behind, so are asking for something that they're not really sure what they're asking.

[summer roost]

that sounds like not a great environment to work in

[fringe sphinx]

This year will be interesting, there’s a lot of experiments with LLMs showing mediocre results.

Ie; https://visualstudiomagazine.com/Articles/2024/01/25/copilot-research.aspx

[dreamy shadow]

"so are asking for something that they're not really sure what they're asking."

Looking for a data scientist (Job description basically lines with llm prompting)

[mortal wedge]

Yeah. I'm familiar with many of them. But many people are just really dead set on them being amazing and impressive and anything wrong will be quickly fixed and improved upon. I got into a big argument and it escalated and I wound up storming out over the holidays, but it all started with them promising me that Chat GPT is already able to beat out all the chess grandmasters with how quickly it has learned and mastered the game O_O

(I researched it a bit afterwards and if anyone is curious, it's play is pretty lackluster. It manages to do some famous opening moves, but doesn't perform too well beyond that and when playing against itself and completing its opening it just gave up)

[summer roost]

it's... it's a chat bot

[mortal wedge]

That's what I mean though. I think people fundamentally misunderstand the technology and many are the same people putting up job postings and grilling applicants on their AI experience.

[fringe sphinx]

I’ve also had a few occasions to see it give me what’s clearly a stackoverflow answer

[strange nova]

So I should make like a bullet point sublist of things about each project as if I was trying to market it?
Example:
•easily add questions to the quiz with a hashmap
•start method returns the grade a user got

[peak halo]

I basically just work with LLMs all day now. And I think they're very impressive and am optimistic about their current and future utility.

But... It's a chat bot?? What's this about playing chess???

[deft herald]

You're still way too low level. We don't need to know implementation details

[peak halo]

If you tune an LLM on sequences of chess moves encoded in some formal chess notation, it could potentially get "good at chess". But not in the sense that person probably has in mind.

[deft herald]

For your last point, you can do something like

Web based something something game

• JavaScript and HTML. Used whatever frameworks. Event-based design

[deft herald]

Or

Interactive quiz runner

• Java. Objected oriented design principles. Yadda yadda yadda

[strange nova]

Hmm. Short bullet points like that for a whole project? Or should i do a sub bullet for each aspect?

[deft herald]

Yeah but think concepts, not function and class details

Like the others said, you're not answering the right questions

[strange nova]

Thank you!

[fierce sleet]

Hello, I'm new here.
I'm just wondering if you can tell me which one you would recommend to study for 3 years bachelor's?
Computer Science or Software Development
I have little experience with programming.
Thank you

[deft herald]

Here's a snippet of some projects from my resume

[smoky quest]

I would need to spend more time reading, but the part about using ArrayLists and Hash maps would be read as someone being a beginner as it does not convey any depth of skills

So I would probably put the accent on something more complex

[smoky quest]

That's a big difference between people who demonstrate leadership and those who do not. That includes following up on your promises
Those who do are the type of people you see people following when they change jobs.

It is always possible to follow up on what was promised.
There is also always the possibility of miscommunication in terms of what was possible and attempted, comparing to what would be the expected outcome

[mortal wedge]

The claim made to me was that you just ask it to play chess and it will play chess better than any grandmaster

[mortal wedge]

Yeah sadly it was the company president who promised and me or my manager at the time following up every couple of months. They never reached out, just made excuses, then this was dropped on my lap today. No apologies, explanations, just HR saying I’m here to answer your questions and I’m confirming you’re not getting what you were promised

[smoky quest]

yeah definitely not a great experience

[dreamy cave]

hello im looking for some career advice. i spent my undergrad stacking up on research and its not looking like im gonna get into a graduate program so im gonna have to start applying to compsci jobs with no internship experience. I dont even know what area I want to specialize in except that I think cybersecurity is kind of cool. I was wondering if anyone has any advice on what would be a starter friendly cs role to start looking for

[smoky quest]

Look at different areas and play with them in the context of projects to get a sense

[smoky quest]

Note also that saying cybersecurity is like saying "healthcare" or "finance". That could mean a lot of things because that encompass all sorts of roles and activities. And as such, a good step for you would be to figure out what are these different roles

[dreamy cave]

Thank you. I have like 3 months left until I graduate so I'll use the remaining time to figure out what I want to do.

[hollow iris]

Hello! I'm looking for some career advice. I'm a 30 year old application consultant (sap) in the field of finance. Lately I've been seriously thinking about transitioning into a more developer type role while still remaining in the Finance industry. Both programming and finance/math are interests of mine and I foresee myself working on personal projects involving both in my free time.

I would consider myself a beginner at programing and I think I'd need probably a year of solid study to get to a more solid foundation. I have completed a few data analysis projects in my personal time and work heavily with SQL at my current job.

I'm add that I am struggling with getting a late start and sometimes wonder if it's even possible to transition at this point in my life. at the same time I feel like I would regret not pursuing this. I'm happy to transition into a junior role, but just looking for some advice as to where to start.

[half minnow]

is there much to learn about Language models? my 'AI'/Data Science co workers just use off the shelf open source stuff (or chatgdp), do some prompt engineering and fine-tune/train the models with some of our data; Its not rocket science, but I can see management wanting someone they view as an authority too feel comfortable using this tech. At this point, honestly, I am pretty sure the only jobs AI is gana make obsolete are the Data Scientist who use them. People who worked on/designed the transformer algorithm have a far different skill set than the people who use these models.

[strange nova]

@true harness

https://tenor.com/view/lets-go-the-rock-rock-go-rock-lets-go-lg-gif-18455293

[golden yoke]

nice

[buoyant seal]

there is always an option they forgot. instead of presuming bad intentions, i think it is safer to presume forgetfulness and just ask 😅
confirmations it is was intended could be nice u know to make. people are people after all. remembering something in a year of time is challenging. What could be important thing for u to remember for a year, could have been a minor thing of a day for another one
Try just asking to confirm 😅

[haughty wasp]

what would you say to someone who is doing Bachelor's in AI and Machine learning
would you recommed him to get into data science roles directly?
or first should he be good at software engineering in order to get into data sci and data analysis kind of stuff
given the current job market trends

[regal axle]

Data science doesn’t require a ton of software engineering. Generally. So just going right for data science is fine. I would just try to keep an eye on the software engineering side, because a lot of things they do can help in most all of the other fields

[late harbor]

Do I need a college degree to work in python online?

[regal axle]

#career-advice message

[late harbor]

@regal axle thx bruv

[bronze cloak]

hey i have a python .py file obfuscated with pyarmor is it possible to get the src code of the obfuscated file?

[buoyant seal]

<@&831776746206265384>

[karmic merlin]

!pban 834089770833281044 racism

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @west torrent permanently.

[jaunty prawn]

I was a software engineer in the finance field for 2 years and there were a few people that joined my team from non-programming departments. It shouldn't take as long as a year. Basically, they just knew enough programming to pass a technical interview.

[gritty rivet]

It's very possible... I was older than you when I took my first entry-level desktop support job and over 40 when I got my first and current role as a Python developer.

Don't wait until you feel "ready". As soon as you have any simple projects to put on your resume, start networking and applying for jobs. It may work out better than you expect, and if not, it will give you clear insights into where your skill gaps are, etc.

I did the Nucamp Backend bootcamp and it was super helpful for me but could be totally unnecessary if you're disciplined enough

On the other hand the market has gotten way more challenging these days so if you make good progress and get serious enough to pursue a relevant degree, do consider it (WGU is a cheap, fast and flexible option popular with career changers)

[turbid bobcat]

just got a response, yaaaaaaaay

i thought i was gonna get ghosted by every1

[silk mauve]

now is the time to assert your dominance and be the one to ghost them instead

[turbid bobcat]

LOL, i like the way you think

[silk mauve]

I def am not unemployed for no reason

[turbid bobcat]

no but it's a pretty good fit as per requirements, would be bad if I did get ghosted

[hearty island]

"Thank you for taking the time to apply for a position at Fried Frank.

We appreciate your interest in our firm but, unfortunately, we have decided not to proceed with your candidacy for the current opening. We encourage you to check back on our website periodically because we may have an opportunity in the future that suits your skills and experience.

We wish you much success in your future endeavors.

Kind regards,

Fried Frank Recruiting" bruh at least tell me what position

[deft herald]

Those projects definitely look a lot better

[near ocean]

Wording could be better, super short sentences look weird, like a brand slogan

Built in Java. Hate yourself.
Made in C++. Foot-shooting done right.

You definitely should list the tech you use but thats all you do, im not sure what the projects do, you dont explain what the point of the project is

[true harness]

highlighting low level design choices like "parses input into smaller pieces" makes it seem like these were very important decisions for you, which in turn makes your skills seem not that great if you focus on these small things. highlight the big decisions that actually matter

[vapid jay]

So im hoping to be starting a job in a couple weeks. I'm really nervous about learning things ahead of time and coming in prepared. What's you all's take? How critical is it to study ahead of time for a job?

[digital fjord]

well, you should be qualified for the job, but I wouldn't bother reading like... old blogposts from the company about how they do their tech, that's for the job to teach.

[deft herald]

Is this like your first job? I think you already did your studying for the interview

[vapid jay]

They're moving to a new system

[vapid jay]

Nah but they're using a totally different stack than what I'm familiar with

[deft herald]

Ok. Did you tell them you were familiar with it?

[vapid jay]

No

[digital fjord]

I wouldn't worry about that too much, they'll likely know how to teach new devs better than you'll come up with on your own

[deft herald]

I think you're good then. YOu could start learning that stack in your free time, but i'm pretty sure that's what they expect you to do on the job

[vapid jay]

Gotcha, I just don't want to end up a low performer, so I'm going to put a lot more effort in studying on my own time with this job.

[near ocean]

If you want to study something for nerves maybe start with their domain/industry
Tech is simple enough

[vapid jay]

True true

[fringe sphinx]

Whenever I hear fried frank, I'm disappointed they don't sell hot dogs.

[hearty island]

lolll

[strange nova]

That's hilarious , okay make real sentences got it

and eh tell what the purpose of it is.. like "a clicker game to buy buildings and make profit",

"a Screensaver that puts random words and colors on screen"
?

[strange nova]

How about just "parses the input"

[true harness]

you're thinking at the wrong level still. no one cares that you parsed the input (unless you did it in a cool, novel way, i guess), they care what you achieved

[strange nova]

OK. I just feel like I'm grasping at straws to have anything to really say about these projects 😂

[frail plover]

hay

[true harness]

maybe you need more complex projects then

[strange nova]

We'll see after these sentence fragments are expanded a bit, could be okay

[true harness]

you shouldn't try to add a ton of fluff, it's annoying for readers; focus on improving your projects so you have stuff to write about

[strange nova]

So do you agree with Mar to expand these a tiny bit? Should I add those little summary sentence of the goal of the project, like in examples above, to the beginning of them?

[true harness]

i do agree to have a short summary of the project, what it tries to do. but i would not try to add unnecessary fluff. more reading for no reason is just annoying

[leaden jasper]

I like this kind of format:

Title whatever
details like location or company or whatever you need
Here's a sentance or two of the project to provide context. This is more fact based and setting the ground work.

• this is how awesome I am
• look at all this awesome stuff I did
• boom look at these applied skills

[true harness]

here's an example from mine. essentially the same as kat's except my first bullet isn't formatted differently, but it serves the same purpose, which is giving context

[strange nova]

Yeah I think I'm liking the bullet list too

[fringe sphinx]

fwiw (not for you, but for rest): that header line is what I love to see... make sure to communicate the stack.

[strange nova]

Making resume is hard but fun

I could probably upgrade them to use database or something I just never really felt inspired to work on projects. I've just wanted to know how to make a full webapp for a long time for my trading business mostly

And I've been going for so long that I think "fuck it I'm gonna take a break and do something else like learn Linux for a while"

Ontop of my back injury, felt like I couldn't even werk if I wanted, but I'm hopeful now

[strange nova]

I feel like im drunk ever since I wrote all that shit, gotta snap out of it and learn something that makes me feel useful or something

[peak halo]

Sounds like they think ChatGPT is an AGI. And it's probably the closest thing we have to one. But it isn't.

[buoyant seal]

Self studies are always important in dev career, but self studies should be concentrated only on stuff that

1. Core software engineering practices u need to know
2. Tech that you declare as part of your resume to know, or wishing to know (here u could relax in working with only desired tech in general if desired)

Self studies are a time to dedicate to your own important skills reusable for your resume/career 😊
Or just having fun in general, like developing minecraft mods. (Thus killing several birds with one stone)

[buoyant seal]

Essentially self studies are a great tool to shape your career towards desired path.
Without self studies yoe like... something floating on river flow to somewhere
With self studies, u can give greater control to your career direction by steering towards stuff u wish to have (and also discovering with which stuff you like actually to work with)
And then depending on araised oportunities applying learned and practice stuff i liked at work and extending its depth further. Thus achieving much happier career

[fringe sphinx]

Wrong channel, use #python-discussion

[rocky fulcrum]

OML FFS

[stone nymph]

Just like how we have the odin proj for learning web dev ..

Is there any good resource for learning python?

[hearty island]

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[stone nymph]

Ty ;))

[sick mountain]

Anyone can help me with jupyterlab

[fringe sphinx]

Wrong channel, start in #python-discussion plz

[grim wadi]

what's the first role I can get as I have learned Python language

[deft herald]

Like you've completed it? What have you learned exactly?

[grim wadi]

Thanks for approaching me, I have learned the python language and OOPs for now and have some knowledge and exp. on Django web framework

[deft herald]

Ok. And what exactly are you looking for?

[grim wadi]

a job that can help me with some experience, actually I haven't decided a domain yet but I prefer the one which takes less time and can get me a decent paying job

[deft herald]

So you want to have your cake and eat it too?

[grim wadi]

somewhat 😅 , can you suggest me something as am blank for now

[deft herald]

Do you have any education?

[worn crater]

Hi, does anyone know about Odoo and ERPNext?

[smoky quest]

what would you ask these people in terms of career, if some where around?

[worn crater]

Their experiences and what is more reasonable for investing time. My boss wants me to research and learn python for medium-scaled business. I just want to know what is more to pursue and apply to my CV's in the future just in case

[dusty island]

@long osprey I don't believe in "not wanting a job". We all want to feel a part of something. Have something fulfilling to do. The alternative is depression.

[faint light]

Here's a question for you:

BACKGROUND_
I'm 29.
Did not get a CS degree.
Gradually taught myself some Python to assist in doing my data analytics job.
I like writing code; favorite part of my job; principles of design and SWE-problems really motivate me.
Paid pretty well, but dead-end, no easy path forward into developer jobs, no where to go at my current place of employment.
Probably sitting at the top of the pay scale for my current role and industry.
Seems like I need to get a CS degree to break in.

QUESTION_
Is it worth it?

CAVEATS_AND_FOLLOWUP
I know that's really subjective.
Will getting a degree actually allow me to break in, or am I too far behind/job market is changing too much?
Is there an easier path that I'm overlooking?

[dusty island]

Personally I think CS degrees are mostly a waste of time. Most CS graduates can't code at all basically. A bootcamp will teach you more programming easy.

[dusty island]

But if you can actually code, I say just start applying.

[long osprey]

So as of now im 18 rn
Born in India, a business family my dad owns a mine
i really never would have done all this coding but i was into gaming n stuff i so started to learn this technical stuff

Started in 2019 when i was 15 was i use to code v rarely
from 2021 April i started to code on daily basis, i learned flask and made few applications as i was i spent few months in Flask, during June 2021 i tried django and i was in love with it
as soon as i turnt 16 i made few quick bucks making some web-application for few small individuals ,2022 i learned about drf and stuff made an application for an govt funded project
Actually i was freelancer so my mindset was always Hustler mindset i learned JS and Lil C++ later on i started a venture with my buddy i met online i started, made around 80k$ in 2022-2023 later on due to some stuff i kinda lost alot of bucks but during the times i learned sales,marketing,product and project management (im good at ppl management), took courses of communication went on offline pitches learned alot of things, in December 2023 i started to pitch industry owners (mainly factory and mills) got few clients did few stuff

But now i feel stuck i really wanna go beyond
i really admire You,Darkwind,Rush

and Yes
as i was ballin so i decided to not go to clg but unfortunately my company turned off and i lost a big chunk of money (thank god my own).

[dusty island]

Sounds like you're on a great path honestly. You're very young still. I didn't have that kind of experience when I was 18.

[long osprey]

As of im fluent with Python,Django,Flask,Drf also lil Channels and Databases stuff and as i deploy applications on AWS so yeah
TRied lil data science stuff at 2022 im also okya okay with SQL
I wanna deep dive

[long osprey]

but things have changed right

How can i get to next level of my career? as of now i think i should make more projects
Learn Docker,Kubernates,Ansible,jenkins etc etc or i shouldn't?

[long osprey]

At a cost,
Lost alot of money,1 year drop and alot of curse
Not good tbh but exp is v v good

From a typical Indian family of tier-3 town to pitching in this tier-3 cities it's obscene sometimes some ppl treat v harshly but some are good
tho we make a good pitch and research about customer before pitching.

[long osprey]

so my question is still the same

how can i enhance my quality of labour, my work
how can i leverage my background enterpreneurship exp

[faint light]

I've gotten advice like that from a couple of SWE friends. I'm not sure though; I think there's a pretty big gap between me and a typical SWE. There's inevitably a lot of blind spots and lopsidedness in my skill set, just because it was cobbled together by myself. I guess that's why I joined the server. Hoping to get a better sense of "if I can actually code" or not and how I would signal that information to the world.

[dusty island]

Nah. I don't think so. Learn dokku and iommi and you can ship amazing stuff super fast

[dusty island]

Quality is something you get by working with smart people, or by just building experience. That's it. There's nothing else.

[dusty island]

Sure. Or you could say you have a fresh perspective. It's the same thing ;)

I'm self taught btw. Back in the 90s :)

[smoky quest]

There are different angles to that:

• Each job ad gets thousands of applicants, most of which with awesome degrees, great projects and cool internships. What's your plan to stand out and end up at the top of the pile?
• There is something about a distance function. The closer you are to the target role, the less costly it is to be hired in that role. So if you have professional experience, you can look at leveraging that to get closer to your goal

[faint light]

The advice I've been given is to somehow weasel my way into getting developer into my job title, or else leap frogging my way in through the data science side of things. But, maybe this is getting too far afield. My question really was just, would it be worth getting a BS in CS or SWE at the age of 30+, having already gotten a different bachelors degree in the past, and having a sort of viable career doing something else already.

While the degree isn't cheap, let's say that I can probably afford it. Does it seem like a sure deal, worth doing, or is its value proposition dubious, in your opinion?

[smoky quest]

Getting a CS degree is still worth it in your 30s. You wouldn't be the first one doing so.

But remember that there is also nothing as a sure deal in life. Obviously, the top of the class have their pick at the job while the bottom of the classes will struggle more than the ones at the top

[faint light]

Personally, if it weren't as big of a time/money commitment, I really enjoyed college. So, it isn't something I'm reluctant to do per se, it is just pretty hard to decide whether I should really do it, or whether it is a self-indulgent avoidance of the righteous path. Lol.

[smoky quest]

Since you seem to be in a data analytics role, you could also look at validating some credits to save some time, taking some evening classes, or potentially having your employer sponsor your education

[dusty island]

30s isn't that bad. But I'd look into bootcamps too. A good bootcamp will have a setup where they get paid from your first jobs salary. Meaning if they fail to get you a job they get no money.

[long osprey]

In India there's Hype of MERN stack
all want mern stack nobody wants python dev

[smoky quest]

it depends on the job they look for. bootcamps tend to be for low skills jobs and not as well paid

[dusty island]

Maybe.. but if you can sell a product, no one will care what the stack is.

[long osprey]

agreed

[dusty island]

Getting your foot in the door as a dev is the important part I think.

[faint light]

It's a kind of complicated situation with my employer, but I don't see them really helping me on my way, unfortunately. But yeah, there probably are some ways to optimize it, if I wanted to minimize those sorts of concerns some.

I don't know. I'm not terribly worried about the cost, and I think I'd enjoy going to school really. I just don't want to set myself back too much.

[long osprey]

i wanna learn how ppl leverage/integrate there ML model , data analysis data science stuff into django

[smoky quest]

I mean, you can try to ask 🙂
Worst case, they say no.

[dusty island]

"their"

[languid iris]

Bro whats the best thing you can create with Python

[smoky quest]

Hi! This is the wrong place. See #❓｜how-to-get-help

[torpid birch]

Ups

[languid iris]

Bro Is Js better>

Like You can create much more with it I thik?

[smoky quest]

Hi! This is the wrong place. You may want to ask in #python-discussion

[languid iris]

alr 🫡 :

[humble vapor]

A bootcamp will teach you, however employers will not consider you.

I've been a programmer as a hobby for 10 years, and was unable to get a job as I had no qualifications.
I was adviced to complete a bootcamp so that I can have one.
But employers are only after those with degrees and past-experience.

[dusty island]

Bootcamps that are set up to not get paid if you don't get a job will work. Because otherwise the bootcamp would not exist, it would go bankrupt.

We hired two people from a bootcamp at my previous job and they worked out great. So from my personal experience it's 100% hit rate. Better than the normal pipe we had :P

(I'm joking of course, due to the small sample size)

[humble vapor]

Ah I forgot to mention something. The bootcamp I attended, Northcoders, offered two courses. Software Engineering and Data Engineering. I chose Data Engineering. I don't know of anyone from the bootcamp which got a job from the data engineering course.

[vapid jay]

How good were yall in Git at your first job ?

[dusty island]

Did you get the entire thing for free then?

[humble vapor]

Basically yeah haha

I already knew most of what they taught me, sparing SQL and javascript.

[dusty island]

Git didn't exist in my first job :P (slow mode in here is... silly)

<@&831776746206265384> Why is it slow mode in here? It's literally called "...discussion", but it's hard to have a discussion with slow mode on...

[vapid jay]

Like does the company expect us to be pro in Git as a fresher ?

[karmic merlin]

The slowmode is to encourage high quality discussions, before we introduced high slowmode many messages were low quality spam messages, we have had positive feedback when it comes to quality of the channel after we have made the slowmode what it is now

[dusty island]

no. Honestly most of us get by with push/pull/checkout/rebase and that's about it

[vapid jay]

Okay cool. Thanks!!

[vapid jay]

Also why there aren't much posting for fresher golang developers ?

Is there something like freshers cannot do golang ? Like I mean is it something which require experience or the person will mess up or something?

[dusty island]

It's good to be the local git wizard though. You always need one of those and they are valued.

[vapid jay]

Yeah but how do I practice ? Like just push and pull personal projects ?

[dense fiber]

since its a version control, you can just git push/pull/ do whatever with whatever files you want

no consequence, no restrictions when learning

[buoyant seal]

Is there something like freshers cannot do golang ? Like I mean is it something which require experience or the person will mess up or something?
it has some difference.
Golang and Java and C# require a bit more mature amount of skills to go.
In average in Python/Javascript nobody expects you knowing code architecture stuff, but Golang/Java/C# introduce
constructing code architecture in a static type safe environments. It makes next impact

1. Harder to unit test

• because u need to account that all stuff is not patchable at run time by default
• objects actually have private methods and variables that u could not be easily changing from your unit test
• once u got hang of Typing code architecture, it is no longer issue though

2. Requires you thinking a bit more code architecturally preferably.
3. Easier to write code from some point, because type safety net is having disadvantages and great advantage in eliminating a lot of errors before the code was even launched

The biggest problem regarding this stuff i believe is actually unit testing.
In average people struggle to unit test even easy to test python/javascript code.
Increased difficulty to unit test stuff in Golang/Java/C# can make very bad code if they don't handle unit testing path
And unit testing is very important for commercial code

At the same time those languages are actually more protected from developers mistakes and easier to code applications from some point of code size.
That's if u manage to write type safe unit tested code though, otherwise u can screw the code to be worse than in Python/Javascript
Because u can screw any language to a bad code with sufficient effort

[vapid jay]

Does golang have more difficulty in testing and other things you said for a fresher than java and C# ?

[buoyant seal]

Golang has similar difficulty to testing as Java/C#
A bit more friendlier though due to very quick compiling, native for golang CLI interface and everything working out of the box

[vapid jay]

But for like java and C# there are fresher posts but for golang everyone's asking for 2 + yoe.

[buoyant seal]

Java devs existed for many dozens of year. It is popular like Javascript language. Java devs are cheap as python devs at this point i think
Golang devs are more rare and more expensive. Golang is much newer language
People wish to get result for sure for paying those bucks i would say 💰

[vapid jay]

Oh I see. Do u think learning golang as a fresher is bad idea ?

[buoyant seal]

May be not the best language from the amount of available jobs
but certainly very enjoyable and worthy to learn

I checked my country hring web site, 3800 jobs in java and 900 jobs in golang.
U will get just 4 times less market capture at this moment at least
golang will unevitable grow though, but it will be still slow to overdominate java. May be in 10 years it will happen eventually some day
Because a lot of stuff is already written for java and will be maintained for next 50 years even if new project will stop being started in java today

[vapid jay]

hi

golang is a great programming language

[vapid jay]

Do you recommend any resources to learn code architecture and other things you said to become a good golang devloper ?

How can I become the best golang devloper so that I can get my first job in some of the best startups even though I have no cs degree ?

Any tips and resources and how to learn etc will be very helpful

[vapid jay]

Yeah but i also want to get job asap. And that too I don't want to start career in a service based company or any company that I don't belive in.

Hope things would turn out my way tho.

[vapid jay]

u mean u wanna do freelancing?

[vapid jay]

No I'm looking for good product startups

[vapid jay]

ohh

[buoyant seal]

How can I become the best golang devloper so that I can get my first job in some of the best startups even though I have no cs degree ?
well... that makes things significantly more difficult. How to get job requiring education without an education?
How to have more skills and be beter than people that 4 years or more dedicated to full time study in university?

I would mention that it will require some exceptional luck, using your other advantages/experience u may be having, having portfolio to shine should be good, having social connections to get first job easier? 😅
A lot of practice to make pet projects
https://codingchallenges.fyi/challenges/intro
https://nedbatchelder.com/text/kindling.html

eventually learning unit ttesting and architecture is nice

• https://www.amazon.com/Grokking-Algorithms-illustrated-programmers-curious/dp/1617292230 data structures and algorithms part of basic CS degree
• https://www.amazon.com/Code-Complete-Practical-Handbook-Construction/dp/0735619670
• https://www.amazon.com/Unit-Testing-Principles-Practices-Patterns/dp/1617296279
• https://www.amazon.com/Test-Driven-Development-Kent-Beck/dp/0321146530
• https://www.amazon.com/Head-First-Design-Patterns-Brain-Friendly/dp/0596007124
• https://www.amazon.com/Clean-Architecture-Craftsmans-Software-Structure/dp/0134494164
  P.S. this knowledge will remain dead weight unless practicing in projects

in any case just getting CS degree is considerably 10 times+ easier and will not require inhuman efforts.

[buoyant seal]

people are more commonly seeking Manual QA and frontend developers from non degree devs.
and wordpress developers and project managers

i would say hiring golang dev without degree education... sounds rather ridiculous to me 😅

[vapid jay]

Oh is it that hard ? Even if I have good projects ?

[buoyant seal]

Yes, people usually don't realize how their projects aren't really actually good.
In average from self educated people i see having written overly simplistic having 10 or 50 code lines of something
but that's not showing your ability to code architecture stuff, designing applications.
U need making project of at least 5000 code lines or greater
Showing ability to make code quality in it, good maintainability, structure, readability, testability despite its size
and most importantly having good presentation showing why this app is needed in the first place and how to use it
People at work require skills to navigate 100'000-1'000'000 code line sized code bases.

[vapid jay]

The problem is that I'm already 23 now and BBA graduate( biggest shit I have done in my life 😅). So can't even think of going to college again.

Ik it requires inhuman effort and but I'm ready to work hard. Things are also getting rough at home and my mind keeps jumping between different languages.

There are tons of python, js developers in my area. Like tons. So I thought it would be better to learn golang. Also read a lot of good stuff about golang.

[buoyant seal]

there is IT related profession named Business Analytic

[vapid jay]

How does CS student does this ? I mean I talked to few of them and they also mostly self learn from youtube and other courses. In college all they learn is theory and stuff mostly.

using selenium gives low bot score than using http requests module yes?

[vapid jay]

Yeah but I'm looking for developer role and also like coding. Do you think it's that hard to get a job for non cs grads ?

[buoyant seal]

screenshot from Systems Analysis and design by alan dennis

[buoyant seal]

it depends on role u are going to seek, luck, portfolio, networking and already present technical inclination
some people can do tech stuff and able to solve problems, some dont and therefore education is having very hard time to fix it

[vapid jay]

using selenium gives low bot score than using http requests module yes?

[buoyant seal]

i will admit it is going to be hard. cs degree graduates get Developer job with around 50% in my country. the rest of graduates realize they don't want to continue for some reason.
CS degree graduates practiced for 4 years coding, their mind was many times broken and reforged to adaprt their thinking to code manipulations during this time
they have solid educational background in all the foundational stuff usually
they have paper prooving their qualifications :/
it is hard u know to compete with that? They can just apply just above average amount of efforts to become devs if they are willing to make it part. just having desire
for non degree people they require Exceptional/Extraordinary luck/effort/dedication/connections/portofolio and etc to make it happen

[vapid jay]

Ohhh

[buoyant seal]

getting some jobs is easier than others though, Manual QA, Wordpress development, Project management, System administrator/Database administrator require far less skills. Some of those professions are having far less satifaction potential too though
those job roles usually aren't recommended for CS degree gruadates

[vapid jay]

Yeah don't want all those jobs. Looking for backend role tbh. I have to figure out some way.

[vapid jay]

Also thanks a lot for replying in detail. You are very helpful as you say everything in detail even when the questions are silly.

Thank you so much!

[hybrid sage]

why is it so hard to find a job right now, what the fuck?

What happenend??

[buoyant seal]

for 4 years they practiced stuff. They wrote programs solving mathematical challenging things of Higher degree graduation
it trains them to coding thinking univetably.

• solid education in all foundational skills matters as well.

• like they learned SQL
• learned DSA
• learned OOP basics
• learned building compilers
• learned working with parallelism
• may be learned building their own libraries
• tried to code games already
  well, i am at this point already repeating those words. u get the idea

[pliant falcon]

😉 no idea

[vapid jay]

One person can do work for 5 people now with AI ? Also companies hired in huge number during covid which was unnecessary and companies realised they can do more stuff with less people.

Elon showed the way ig lol.

using selenium gives low bot score than using http requests module yes?

[hybrid sage]

AI can't and wont replace people, this is just a buzz word to hype up AI

[pliant falcon]

With ai there should be many chances but let's say it's more for advanced ppl

[vapid jay]

Yeah I'm also going to learning all that stuff and taking udemy courses and reading other software books and design and architecture and stuff.

[pliant falcon]

AI needs people to be AI, it's supposed to create jobs as much as possible

[vapid jay]

Ai may not replace people that much in short term but one person can do more stuff. And in the long run sure many of the jobs now would be automated and would go obselete

[vapid jay]

Yeah it will create new job but many jobs present now would go obsolete

[fringe sphinx]

The job challenges right now have nothing to do with AI

[vapid jay]

More with over hiring they have done in covid I think

[pliant falcon]

People have to cope with it and study the need of ai and get prepared for it

[buoyant seal]

well, the main different between CS degree student and online courses participants is in
students actually solving problems on their own
professors don't spoon feed them answers, students seek solutions on their own.
so when thrown to solve real world problems, they are able to navigate and seeking path to solution (hopefully)
most of online courses suffer from the problem that material and answers are spoon feeded to learner.
So once online course finished person tries to make something on their own, they encounter a problem of this stuff not covered in online course and not knowing how to seek solution

in any case, 4 years of practice vs few months of online courses make the difference as well.
U need not only to learn smth, but to practice building projects. CS degree students wrote a lot of programs during university
from calculator and compiler to simple games and calculating physics. Just practice makes difference

[hybrid sage]

this is what happens when you overhype a job advertised as remote and promises to get people out of poverty lmao, when they've never wrote code in their life

[fringe sphinx]

The root issue was economic and the post Covid over hiring in big tech. Result was massive layoffs and hiring freezes last year. Hopefully we’re coming out of the woods now, but it takes time.

[pliant falcon]

Yes it's about how much you code not how much you learn

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, a perfect storm of that plus the economic cycle

[vapid jay]

Yeah

[fringe sphinx]

Who did that? Perhaps some YouTubers, if

[buoyant seal]

learning is important too, but it needs sufficient amount of practice to apply in order to become useful
for a lot of material u can be just not even ready until u practiced stuff before that

[hybrid sage]

yes. you should also thank tik tok and youtube shorts, for literally impressing young teens who are gamers thinking if they know a little bit of tech jargon they immediately classify as a programmer for fucks sake

[pliant falcon]

Whoever owns money doesn't care about poverty as much as they care about how much they're gonna make this year, everyone needs to survive xd

[vapid jay]

What all projects are usually uni students do which make them good developers ?

[pliant falcon]

Yeh indeed.

[fringe sphinx]

We see it daily in this channel: people who think they can land a high $$ job from a few weeks of learning Python. (Nothing wrong with aiming high, just that it takes more )

[hybrid sage]

In my opinion, i'd say go to a CS degree, make some friends, have fun but also concentrate on homework and projects

[vapid jay]

Not in a situation to do that tbh..

[pliant falcon]

I think it's all about the degree, otherwise if u compare those who study on their own and who have a degree, the person who studies on his own is more knowledgeable

[fringe sphinx]

Without a degree, there’s a few more steps involved, let me find a previous discussion here

#career-advice message

[vapid jay]

Thanks...

[true harness]

unqualified applicants aren't competition though

[hybrid sage]

true

But holy shit I swear everybody is getting into computer science it's nuts

[fringe sphinx]

It is true, but CS majors also end up in more than just SWE jobs.

[buoyant seal]

Too long to answer. I ll try to answer it later

[weak vessel]

should i start learning python

[hybrid sage]

what kinda question is that

This is literally your average person going into comp sci because theyve heard its well paid and theres "computers"

[weak vessel]

what :D?

[buoyant seal]

It depends on what is your background and goals.

If u just wish fun, then sure regargdless

[gritty rivet]

Instead of what? Playing video games? Then sure.

[true harness]

so what? why does it matter how someone gets interested?

[weak vessel]

yea bro i have alot of time and im sick and tired of grinding video games

[fringe sphinx]

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[fringe sphinx]

Have you seen this?

[weak vessel]

nope

[fringe sphinx]

Basically: pick a tutorial. The ebooks are popular and simple (I like a byte of python, but ymmv). Go through the tutorial, and start writing simple code... very simple projects, like "rock paper scissors"/etc. When you get stuck, go to #python-discussion and ask for help.

And ignore youtube and all the terrible hot takes about which language is best or the 1000 things you must know/etc.

[weak vessel]

Thank you very much. God bless

[zenith sorrel]

what's up guys! where can i find the resources to learn python ?

[fringe sphinx]

#career-advice message

[stone grove]

Hi

[vapid jay]

Thanks

[raven rivet]

What free ide is best for learning python

Please answer fellas

[fringe sphinx]

Recently discussed here: #python-discussion message

Also, use #python-discussion