career-advice

[gritty rivet]

Yes, I would guess 90-99% of programmers have degrees of some kind.

I know two that don't, and they both did years in the military

Certs are basically useless for programming but can help for other IT support roles

[hazy pumice]

a school one or i can get one from challenge in internet but it's gonna be for money right?

[gritty rivet]

An online degree like WGU is better then nothing but definitely inferior to a traditional degree

[hazy pumice]

is joining the universty of WGU for money?

[true harness]

yes

[hazy pumice]

lol so there is no free way at all to start get money from programming?

[true harness]

you can start learning for free

[hazy pumice]

i know right now i am learning from Bro Code it's crazy and i am learning loops (python) right now but i was just asking if i would be mr beastttttt nvm if i well get money from it (not a lot money )

[shrewd mulch]

Hello guys I am new to coding what is the best possible way to learn python and in general how to start programming ?

[hazy pumice]

you are exactly like me for me i started learning from bro code it's amazing full 12h course

course of python*

he have a lot of courses

[shrewd mulch]

A youtube channel

[hazy pumice]

yes

[shrewd mulch]

thanks a lot Lamin

[fringe sphinx]

If you don’t have the time or privilege to get a degree first, then look for an adjacent job in tech like QA or support to get some experience while you learn and perhaps take evening courses. You might also get your foot in the door with basic development for a small company, but this is not easy to find and requires a lot of luck and networking.

[hazy pumice]

oh that's what i need tbh

[true harness]

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[hazy pumice]

seems good

[shrewd mulch]

thank you it looks interesting

[hearty island]

"Could I grab 10-15 minutes of your time to discuss a growth role at your convenience? This role requires Hybrid in office 3 days a week in the office in Stamford. Please let me know.

My firm, Telesis7 (T7), certified Great Place to Work, is a growth minded consulting firm with impressive culture, a competitive compensation package - including 100% paid medical, PTO holiday and 401k- and exciting projects.

Please let me know if we can set up an introductory discussion with you ~ Thanks!" 🤔

a linkedin recruiter reached out to me with that

[true harness]

no job details? bruh

[hearty island]

yeah wtf is a growth role

[near ocean]

certified Great Place to Work
Im sorry what? Says who lmao

[hearty island]

it's just a stupid award

"Career with NC Dept of Public Safety
Hello Damian,

Thank you for your interest in a career with North Carolina Department of Public Safety. Feel free to check out our careers page. We are sure you will find a position that will suit your career goals.

Feel free to reach out to me if you have any questions.
Careers Link:
https://www.governmentjobs.com/careers/northcarolina?department[0]=Dept of Public Safety&sort=PositionTitle|Ascending

DPS Website:
ncdps.gov"

strange, i don't think i ever applied to these guys

[hazy pumice]

wtf is this guys

[hearty island]

huh

[hazy pumice]

100$/hr job? lmao

[hearty island]

for what

[true harness]

fairly reasonable in some places in the world

[hazy pumice]

nvm

[runic perch]

Hello guys, I just join the server, and want to konw if one of you is quant researcher or trader ?

[fringe sphinx]

Seems pretty normal, doesn’t seem weird to me. Growth role just means: you have opportunities to advance/do more.

[fringe sphinx]

This really isn’t the best server for -that- type of question. I’m in DE and work with quants (and less commonly, traders) but surely there’s a more appropriate server!

[runic perch]

Oh okay ! Do you have an idea of which server is a good one ?

[fringe sphinx]

Not really... I guess my question is: Are you asking about python & programming & software careers, or pure Quant / Trading?

Like, what do you want to ask them?

[hazy pumice]

guys loops are so cool tbh

it can be used to spam in social media right? (create script is there is tuto for this things?)

[fringe sphinx]

Wrong channel? Try #python-discussion

[hazy pumice]

sryy

[runic perch]

It's important for quant to be reaaly good at programmming especially in py and c++ that's why I am here. I want to learn to code properly and incorporate maths inside my code

currently I am in data engineering, computer science degree

[hearty island]

try r/financialcareers

i would include a link to their server, but it'll get zapped.

[fringe sphinx]

And, lots of engineers in this server are in fintech roles, so if you're asking about software development in finance contexts, ask the qeustion. If you want to talk to actual traders / quants, try the other finance-specific servers.

[icy vault]

Is it difficult to find a job as a programmer/software engineer without a degree?

[smoky quest]

yes

[icy vault]

Is it possible or not?

[smoky quest]

anything is possible

A CS degree is the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation.

[deft herald]

You're going to be extremely hard-pressed to get a job with "engineer" in the title (well, at least for companies that hire engineers. Not something silly like "facilities engineer" which is just a janitor) without a degree in engineering or equivalent technical bachelor's

This is a hard requirement for probably 95% of the jobs out there. And yes i just pulled that number out of thin air

[near ocean]

Like a silly job statistics dehumidifier

[balmy spade]

I agree with recursive here. Anything is possible. Hi, I'm a software engineer and I don't have a degree. Is it easy? Heck no. Is it something I'd recommend? Not if you have the ability to get a degree or you have a significant number of years work experience to use instead. The latter, as recursive said, is a frustratingly difficult path to walk.

[deft herald]

You must be in the 5% 😄 What sort of qualifications did you have when you got your SWE job?

[balmy spade]

One year working as an Application Engineer
Four years as a Senior Support Specialist (tier 2 helpdesk)
Twenty+ years customer service (retail/sales)

I traded on my customer service work experience and my first-impression brand. (and it was still a struggle)

[deft herald]

Yeah. Wow

[fringe sphinx]

My usual advice to non-degree folks is something like: get your foot in the door through an adjacent role l(support, qa, whatever), while developing your coding skills. Sounds like this was how you started. Agree with recommendation?

[balmy spade]

Absolutely. Support, qa, project assistance, etc. Get in and don't stop there. Lateral movement is usually viable for these roles. You learning the extra skills is seen as a positive because it makes you better support.

[balmy spade]

I felt like my move from retail to technology went something like this:

Recruiters to a degree holder: "It seems like you have some valuable skills listed here. Let's get you in the initial interview process."

Recruiters to me: "It seems like you have a lot of skills listed here. Prove it."

[tender tree]

sounds about right

[analog sun]

What?

[hazy pumice]

ye he's a gay see his logo dude there is no way this guy could be programmer tf

[near ocean]

<@&831776746206265384>

[analog sun]

!ban 995005991869493330 I don't think you understand this community very well

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @hazy pumice permanently.

[kind marsh]

(brad was right there :P)

[near ocean]

Better safe than sorry 😔

[edgy bay]

You can be homophobic, just keep your thoughts to yourself

[peak halo]

The moderators will handle it; thanks

[hearty island]

man uhg is killing me

[south spoke]

Hey there 👋🏻 maybe i need some guidance 😅. I‘m atm a Senior Architect at a startup and leading a 6 person strong dev team. But I would like to move to Ireland but somehow I can’t find a fitting job - does anybody has any advice? I‘m from Germany

[hearty island]

nothing since december 21st

[south spoke]

Hm?

[hearty island]

their last contact w me was on dec 21st, where they said i was a "top candidate" for their role

[south spoke]

So you think Ireland isn’t a good market?

[near ocean]

Its time to contact them

Theres a good chance your stuff has been lost in a pile of "circle back after holidays" things

[hearty island]

oh this has nothing to do w ireland, sorry. no clue there.

[hearty island]

maybe, i don't want to seem impatient though

[near ocean]

Its been 20 days, if you dont remind them soon they'll just move on

[hearty island]

you’re right

[turbid bobcat]

I'm gonna do a 2 page CV, see how it goes.

[hearty island]

like i cannot wait this long just to get a response, i'll get ghosted or forgotten

fuck this patience shit

[turbid bobcat]

One trick I've been using is to set your location on LinkedIn to the place you wanna work, but disclaim it on the headline like "your headline (based in Germany)", has been working for me.

[turbid bobcat]

Probly good to keep applying to other places, just to distract you

[near ocean]

Patience is for week 1

[turbid bobcat]

I've setup a Trello thing for my applications. One list per phase, prep, screening, hr interview, tech interview

[hearty island]

i use stipplo. does the same thing (sucks it didn't work for you)

[turbid bobcat]

Never tried that

[hearty island]

"Hi Recruiter Name, I hope you are doing well! I am following up on the Analyst Rotational Development Program that I interviewed for on November 20th from 12:00 PM - 12:30 PM EST (attached in this email). I was wondering about the status of my application. The job ID for the position is 2191214. Thank you for your time and consideration!"

is that good? should i add anything else?

[turbid bobcat]

Prompt gpt, make it a legit pc corp email.

[hearty island]

this is what they said on the 21st: "Thank you for taking the time to interview for the Analyst Rotational Program - Multiple Locations (Hybrid), 2191214 position at UnitedHealth Group. I am excited to let you know that you are a top candidate for this role. Due to the holidays, we will have to finalize all offer decisions by early January. If you have an competing offer due soon feel free to make a decision on it.

I appreciate your patience as the team evaluate interview results and work to determine the finalists for this position. Feel free to reach out if you have any questions."

[turbid bobcat]

You gotta not think about it, it's gonna consume you and if don't work out it will amplify your disappointment. Been there done that.

[hearty island]

gotta adopt the fuck it we ball mentality

[turbid bobcat]

Today I got with the "your background is impressive but we gonna go with other people" template. I get it that it is automated, but I take the contradiction personally >.>

[hearty island]

i know the template lol

[turbid bobcat]

Like, I'm either impressive and you wanna move on or Im not impressive and you don't

There's no in between

[hearty island]

their choice of words is very careful. you "are a top candidate for the role," not "you're the top candidate for the role"

i already know the outcome

[turbid bobcat]

Yeah it's all automated. It was a low effort application, I'm trying to get feedback on my CV and testing the waters.

[turbid bobcat]

I mean, you don't know the outcome yet

[blazing harbor]

is using chat gpt effective tho?

[turbid bobcat]

Can't recall the last time I wrote an email. I just prompt and refine.

[fleet reef]

No.

[blazing harbor]

I've always been writing my own emails 🤔 I don't really trust chatgpt with ANY of my data

[hearty island]

i don't see anything wrong with what i wrote

[turbid bobcat]

It's quicker and it turns out much better.

[blazing harbor]

there's nothing wrong; maybe they just don't have headcount for you

a lot of the time these big corporations interview even when they don't even have a spot which is the unfortunate case

[hearty island]

???

what are you even talking about lmao

[turbid bobcat]

y would they spend multiple paid hours if they don't intend to hire

You sometimes get two people on am interview, that's double the salary time

[blazing harbor]

Beats me, but I have a bunch of friends who passed the interviews with flying colors and asked the HR who just say there is no headcount

[turbid bobcat]

You mean the position was filled ?

[blazing harbor]

No like they don’t have the headcount for the position itself

Idk why maybe vishayet knows

[void linden]

When would you consider someone to know enough Python to be called as a Senior Software Engineer?

[void linden]

Not really. Stuff in Germany is a waiting game.

[regal axle]

As long as they still think in terms of a language … never (I mean sure, there are exceptions. But like nah)

[turbid bobcat]

Senior is usually like 8+ years or something.

[summer roost]

senior engineers are trusted to run projects on their own, manage requirements, communicate with stakeholders, choose the right tools for the job, and choose appropriate designs for the systems

[void linden]

So why are Job requirements 3+ years of python usually?

[turbid bobcat]

I might be Senior then

[void linden]

Exactly my point. It's not that easy to measure so some ambiguity there.

[turbid bobcat]

Supposedly, it varies by company size, it's easier to be Senior-like in super small companies.

[regal axle]

They want you to be proficient with python. This could be a semantics thing based on how technical the company is. Because based on that, titles are kinda just thrown around. So ultimately, it’s hard to define “senior” positions. But the ping of the short of it, is that a senior SWE is not the same as a senior python developer.

[summer roost]

there's nothing to "measure", really. "senior" isn't a state of being that can be measured. It's a set of job responsibilities

some people might be able to take on those responsibilities after 2 years, others might never be able to take them on

[void linden]

I mean somehow switching jobs kinda feels like a reset in terms of job experience.

[summer roost]

it definitely shouldn't... every new job you take on should be building on top of your prior experience

[void linden]

But that level of adaptability of a potential candidate is not accounted for

[summer roost]

that's definitely not true at all

[void linden]

How do you mean?

[summer roost]

if you have experience running projects and wrangling stakeholders and delivering deliverables, your resume should say that. If it does, your next employer should be hiring you for roles that use those skills

in other words, if you somehow manage to get hired for a junior role despite the fact that you've been doing senior level work at a previous company, that's your fault - either you accepted a job that's below your level, or you failed to communicate to the employer what your level is

[turbid bobcat]

I had a lot of those responsibilities on my previous job, but I'm not sure if calling myself senior now is gonna fly.

I'm comfortable applying for mid level roles tho

[summer roost]

I wouldn't worry about the title at all. Titles don't matter. If you had those responsibilities, stress them on your resume and feel comfortable applying to roles that say "senior". Those skills are what companies mean by "senior"

the way that you start doing any type of more advanced work is convincing your employer to trust you with that responsibility - possibly because they think you're the best qualified person who's available to do that work, possibly because they want to help you grow. Once you've done that sort of work, the way to keep doing it is to look for job postings that require it, and convince the hiring managers that you can be trusted to do it once you're hired.

[turbid bobcat]

Interesting.

Alright I'm gonna try to apply to some senior roles, see how it goes.

[hearty island]

godlygeek, do you think i should follow up with the recruiter or just give up and wait?

maybe i should wait another 7 business days /delulu

[summer roost]

I don't know what the context for this is

[hearty island]

it's for this uhg analyst rotational development program, it's been 14 biz days of no contact

[summer roost]

🤷‍♂️ it doesn't hurt to reach out. That's long enough that it's perfectly reasonable to say "now that we're past all the holidays and everyone's back in the office, I wonder if you can give me any updates"

[turbid bobcat]

I usually wait two weeks

[hearty island]

should i just reply to the latest email i had with her?

[summer roost]

yep

[deft herald]

IME you're not going to cause any harm by reaching out too often, as long as your polite and professional in your writing

[summer roost]

well - depends on how often "too often" is

but once a week is probably safe, and once after 3 weeks is definitely safe

[hearty island]

eh it's been two biz weeks

[summer roost]

14 business days is at least 2.8 weeks

[deft herald]

There's literally no harm in sending an email right now

[true harness]

if they were going to accept you, a follow-up isn't going to destroy your application, and if they were going to reject you then a follow-up isn't going to save your application

[summer roost]

yeah. The only way that you sink your application by reaching out is if you do something that they find upsetting - you're rude, or you annoy them by constantly asking for updates every day, or something like that. 2 weeks is plenty of time to politely ask for an update.

just don't act unreasonable and you'll be fine

[vapid jay]

Do you guys think it’s possible to learn Python enough for GCSE Computer Science for this year.

[lapis wind]

Easily

GCSE Computer Science requires effectively nothing more than basic knowledge of variables, loops and functions

[long solar]

I do not want to get an internship I just wanna build my own projects

[balmy spade]

Then build your own projects.

[sand bison]

So easy

[near ocean]

Why not? People usually regret not doing an internship or teo during their studies

[peak halo]

an internship will be better for your future employment prospects than your own projects

[long solar]

I just want one full summer where I can just code as much as I want, all day all night. Its a new hobby and I haven't has this opportunity yet. Last summer I was kinda a newbie and I only spent about half of it coding

[deft herald]

yeah. lots of companies have a direct intern-to-full-time pipeline in place too

[deft herald]

you can still do that with an internship. only difference is that the code you write there has a higher chAnce of being practical in the real world industry

oh, and you get paid for it

[balmy spade]

There is nothing stopping you from having whatever job you can get to put food on the table and code as often as you can. Are you wanting to be a professional developer or are your career goals elsewhere and coding is a passion project?

[long solar]

Coding what I want to code and coding what someone tells me to code is not the same

[true harness]

you can do both. at the same time even

[balmy spade]

No it isn't which is why I code at work and when I'm at home. Side projects are fuel for my creativity and learning.

[deft herald]

Have you coded for money before?

[long solar]

No

[deft herald]

Well let me tell you that coding for work and coding for school are also two very different experiences

Putting together a project for work is multitudes more fulfilling than just a busy-work school assignment that everyone has to do

You can solve real world problems that a real company would use. OUr interns in the past couple years have done some really cool things for my team

[long solar]

Imagine if you could do your side project full-time

[near ocean]

You sure wouldn't have to imagine if you'd slash your chances at being employed as a dev with a decent salary

[balmy spade]

I do. One day I hope my book writing will surpass my current job. When it does, I'll switch.

You do your day job to get the food on the table. If you enjoy your day job even better. You do your side projects to fuel your passion. If you find a side project takes off and surpasses your day job then it's safe to switch.

Passing up employment with the idea that "one day this will take off" is chasing a dream without a safety net.

[long solar]

I thought your side project was a programming project lol

[balmy spade]

Nobody says you can't. Many just warn against the risk.

[balmy spade]

It is. I have many side projects. I program, I write, and starting today I'm trying out game dev. (the game dev will replace programming for two weeks. I still only have 24 hours in a day, haha)

[near ocean]

having internships under your belt is near mandatory for software people nowadays
you're shooting your self in the foot for instant gratification essentially

[long solar]

If its really a catastrophe, I could get an internship next summer after I graduate or just get a masters

[near ocean]

you could do an internship this summer and have full time work when you graduate

[true harness]

it's usually difficult to get an internship after you graduate

[unique carbon]

Here in BR its illegal

tbh the best thing about the uni is the internship, which is the easiest entry into the job market

whats the carrer outlook for python? I work with Java and js, and don't know much about it. Are roles generally niche to something, are do they value other domain knowledge, are they mostly for some specific seniority level?

[unique carbon]

I find my side project more fulfilling than my work project. I do feel like I'm just an human bot doing the job, as all I have to do is to turn the documentation into code. Since the managers care more about the deadlines than code quality, I also don't think too much about the best approach and just pump out things quickly

[deft herald]

Yeah that's totally fair. There are definitely different working environments. Sometimes you really are just a code monkey unfortunately

[brazen trail]

super solid, it's versatile and used in a lot of places for web development, data science, scientific computing, etc... but you can also use it to just move some files around and automate part of your job that way 🙂 whatever other domain knowledge you have likely has some use cases Python can fulfill

[deft herald]

Yeah for most software dev jobs I've seen, if Python isn't the main language, it's often still mentioned as a side requirement because it's still used for tooling, CI, and what not

[dreamy spade]

I want to know what every developer thinks about this in regard to technical meetings with non-technical work associate. I hear the arguments like “They can’t read code, so you can’t prove them that you worked on something by showing them it” and “You need to communicate to them down to their level so they can understand.”

My argument is that everyone in a company should have a fundamental understanding of what each person does every department. For example if I join a finance meeting, I should be expected to have a fundamental understanding of financial literacy and terminologies. I thought it would have more value if everyone was filled in on everyone’s job responsibilities on a fundamental level.

In a technical meeting, my non-technical manager talking to me about wanting our software to be automated. I told him that the software doesn’t need any automation. Then I introduced him to crontab and educated him on it. I also explained the science on how our software will integrate data. I thought I would inform him the fundamental basis of how our software integrates data. I also informed him about some software development terminologies. Perhaps I should explain the status of our software in layman’s terms during meetings instead? What do you guys think?

[true harness]

My argument is that everyone in a company should have a fundamental understanding of what each person does every department.
in my opinion, this is a noble, but futile argument. you can't really force people to understand things, and if they don't, what are you going to do then? you still need to communicate to them.

for the last part, we don't know your manager, so it's impossible to gauge whether or not your communication was effective. but when i'm in this situation, i generally expect the audience to not care about anything i'm saying technical-wise. i focus on function/features/things they can understand, rather than how things are implemented. e.g., instead of, "there is a tool called crontab which lets us run script every few hours on a schedule", just say, "we can run the script as often as we need automatically". maybe not even the script, it could even just be "we can [do the function of the script]", e.g., "we can integrate data as often as we need automatically"

[delicate bane]

lol. this is really funny to read. that is all

[peak halo]

Can you give a concrete example? What project is the meeting about, what is the purpose of the meeting as it pertains to that project, what do you do on the project, and what do the non-technical people do in relation to the project?

Also, how large is this company? I couldn't name every occupation that my company encompasses, let alone the basic responsibilities for more than a handful of them.

[delicate bane]

as someone with many cross-functional partners/stakeholders, you shouldnt explain the technology with more technology or get stuck with implementation details. address the problem at hand and articulate how your solution can solve this problem.

thats what they care about.

[true harness]

real. talk about the things they care about. "how" is not really important, only that it's possible. except how much it'll cost 😩

[delicate bane]

fr. that and timelines. whens it getting done.

[regal axle]

Except when someone show interest in the finer details. If they probe, go for it. I like getting into the weeds with people. If they want it ...

[dreamy spade]

This project is an automated data integration software. The purpose of it to extract data from one source , store it in a database and send to another source. It's suppose to periodically write and update information from source 1 to source 2 and source 2 back to source 1. I am currently writing new data integration pathways, I will push this into our Linode server and it will automate with crontab once the software goes live.

The purpose of the meeting is to inform the status and the progress of the project to my non-technical manager and non-technical administrator. Our company currently has between 20 - 30 people in it.

The non-technical people explain how our Sales team uses a project management website (Source 1) for our company's business and how they want sets of data to be integrated into another website (Source 2). My non-technical manager will sometimes visually explain to me in diagram what pieces of data he would like to be integrated from Source 1 to Source 2. The administrator just simply wants our software live. Sometimes they would chime in but mostly listens in our meetings. Metaphorically speaking, The non-technical manager is the visionary artist of the project and I'm the producer. I stick with his vision. The administrator is the one who will be using the Source 2 website.

[delicate bane]

ah the classic ETL and then reverse ETL.

@true harness im not making that term up btw. you already know in your heart where this diagram is from:

[peak halo]

thank you for the detailed answer. I can't think of what benefit the sales team would get from seeing any code. I imagine you'd want to convey to them what functionality is available. It might occasionally be helpful to talk about technical details with your manager, but only if they ask.

[crisp stream]

I said it elsewhere, but you can try to get feedback on what level of detail they want

[harsh river]

i said it elsewhere, but you shouldn't be worrying about what sort of expertise people who don't work in your department do, you should just strive to communicate as simple as you can without being too technical, you don't try to explain someone who works in legal the inner workings on how the API works or more, you just tell them it's the interface you use to get data and don't go further.

[true harness]

yeah, i mean, just think of it from the other perspective. do you really want to spend your time learning about finance, law, business, and so on? i don't

[balmy spade]

We have a phrase where I work:
"They want to know what time it is. They do not want to know how to build a watch."

The sales team is skilled with sales. The dev team is skilled with technology. Ideally, you'd have a business analyst, product owner, or otherwise between the two playing the translation layer. Someone that can put the business needs into technical requirements and put technical capability into business value. In small teams you don't have that role as an extra team member. The dev needs to play that role; simplifying down the technical to "This works" and "We need N more days for that".

It's almost silly but it is one of the reasons I enjoy discord programming guilds so much. I don't have that many people at work to geek out with over code. Even within the technical teams there are those that program and those that use the programs.

[delicate bane]

for me this is why i like going to meetups, conferences, etc.. in order to talk to other practitioners and see how theyre doing things. its pretty inspo too

[delicate bane]

+1 on devs playing that role on small teams

interrogating stakeholders for requirements is lowkey a real skill

[balmy spade]

To your opening statement @dreamy spade ; I do agree. The company should have a unified understanding of the fundamentals. I think where I differ in that opinion is that I see that fundamental as so high level that all other skills fall away.

Take the retailer Target. Dozens of roles in one store. About 20-50 team members. A single, fundemental understanding of what we are doing. "Delivering friendly and fast guest service." and "Making it right for every guest." No need for me to know how the cash office works. No need for the stock team to know how my marketing team worked. But we're all under a single flag. We're all doing the "thing" we do for the good of the company.

we're all mowing the company's lawn

[balmy spade]

Exchange the work "interrogating" with "connecting with" and you have me on board 100%.

[balmy spade]

Networking with peers is so healthy and encouraging. Especially when you connect on the skills that you don't get to gush about that often. (sadly, few people at work want to have a dance session over the super clever new way I found to shave 4% off reconcile times)

[delicate bane]

connecting with is too optimistic for me. interrogating fits my style.

[delicate bane]

yeah only peers in the same space would be willing to geek out i find most of the time

[balmy spade]

That's unfortunate. I hope you and future stakeholders see yourselves as part of the same team. The communication gap can be brutal.

[delicate bane]

oh dont worry i say interrogating but its not as adversarial as it may come across.

[balmy spade]

haha, the word is very confrontational in my head.

[delicate bane]

oh i am sure it is to most people

[balmy spade]

Probably just my "toxic positivity", as one coworker once put it. Causes me to always want to twist the narrative to see what other angles and solutions are being masked by the initially projected image.

[nova snow]

can anyone suggest some good servers for job finding? I am really in need of job.

[flat flint]

u might get some answers from top. gg or smthing

[timid condor]

https://github.com/gh0stfrk/module-inator/tree/main

I am trying to find a python backend developer job, does this project qualifies to be on the resume ?

this was a pet project i created while i was trying to solve a problem i was facing in another project that i never finished 💀

[tender gale]

so static module loader

cause u still add it in modules_

[timid condor]

it needs something to identify the module, vendor name was a good idea i thought (that has to be unique) ig.

[elfin sorrel]

hi

[floral rain]

after learning django. what do you guys think is a good skill to learn to be a backend developer

[trim crypt]

After going through a few job boards, the Python jobs are very little. Most of the Python jobs I've seen are in AI/ML space or Full Stack Dev with some JS framework.

[trim crypt]

Database management and DevOps (that includes writing your own test cases and pipelines to CI/CD apps like Jenkins)

[turbid bobcat]

Docker, compose, networking

[vapid jay]

Any idea what I could use

[fringe sphinx]

Based on what #career-advice message said, any intro resource would do:

[fringe sphinx]

!resources Start with a good source, like: A Byte of Python, Automate the Boring Stuff or the Corey Schaffer YouTube channel.

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[vapid jay]

Oh. Great, cause my exam is to correct things in a code and there’s 6 coding questions and they get more difficult as you go.

[fringe sphinx]

When is the exam?

[vapid jay]

This year so id imagine around May time I’m unsure exactly.

[fringe sphinx]

My advice would be: Start with a books above, then do some small programming problems, such as: https://inventwithpython.com/pythongently/. If you can get through these, you're probably in good shape to then study specifically for a basic exam.

If you know nothing, you can get there in 3-4 months... but start now, and put a little time in every day.

[gritty rivet]

It's unlikely that anyone will actually read your code, so presentation (like how you describe this on your resume) is very important.

The readme reads more like a blog post than a readme. I would stick to the normal readme stuff, just the installation and usage details. You can have a website or article or blog post where you hype up the project in more detail and link to that from your resume. Both your resume and the website can link to the GitHub repo

If this is your only project, that's probably not enough for a normal backend job. You should also have at least one actual backend, like a REST API

[sand bison]

To be honest when I started out python I just used sololearn. I would say 6-12 hours of learning it there and you will be done

Now I have read books and documentations and mostly just do projects but you dont need to go that far for gcse

There is not even oop programming is gcse

So it’s extremely basic

[somber pawn]

Hello! I was wondering if anyone got into electronics(I'm talking about the one that is closer to the academic world) from a math and computer science background. Since I didn't have the opportunity to take physics in high school I can't go for electronics as my main course. I was wondering whether it'd be a good idea to go with math and computer science as a dual course and I could take additional courses on electronics as I go. Has anyone done something similar, or what do you think?

[hearty island]

just saw the role i interviewed for reposted 😦

guess i should expect a rejection email

[fringe sphinx]

There’s quite a few here too, a few post in #microcontrollers (like KeithTheEe), altho maybe he’s the opposite of what you’re asking? I dunno.

[fringe sphinx]

There are different combinations of majors. Computer Engineering is a sort of a cross between EE and CS, for instance

[somber pawn]

alright, I will post it there, thank you.

[vapid jay]

So how long would you say it’d take?

[sand bison]

A week or two of doing a lil bit maybe 30 mins everyday

[verbal sleet]

Hey out of interest what is yall's thoughts on chat gpt making cover letters? Me personally I dont think Its a bad thing to be doing mostly due to the nature of cover letters some times not even being read and other factures contributing more.

[balmy spade]

My thoughts are going to sound harsh.
If I were considering doing that I would be quite careful in reviewing the generated cover letter. I'd even rewrite it in my own words. If I was reviewing applicants and I got the impression they didn't have the time to write a cover letter I'd assume they don't have the time to work with me.

[fringe sphinx]

Agree, and: Cover letters aren't very common in the US. So, before spending time on a cover letter, make sure they're expected.

[balmy spade]

Really? I found them to be a requirement for everything except walk-in applications.

Trying to be more adaptive to technology with my answer: I don't see anything wrong with leveraging tech to polish something you've written. As a writer myself, I use several tools for grammar, tense, structure, and spelling. It's close to the same advice we say about copilot. It's a tool, not a solution.

[near ocean]

I've only seen cover letters be an industry standard while my gf was applying to biotech jobs and phd programmes
The second one is understandable but jobs in the industry requiring a cover letter? Some people severely overestimate their importance

I see it as a power trip, i've never written one and i dont apply to jobs that ask for you one even if optional

[crisp stream]

cover letters aren't very common in India either, just chiming in

[fringe sphinx]

I don't think I've seen a cover letter for a SWE application in 10 years.

[balmy spade]

Wild. haha. I must have gotten in at the end of the era for cover letters. That or my state is just stuck in the 60s. Equal chance of both, honestly.

[verbal sleet]

ive been applying for internships and its a 50/50 if they have it or not but its never required

[near ocean]

If they ask for one its required

Other people would cave in and write one and now youre at a disadvantage if you dont

[verbal sleet]

well considering that its not stared and you can submit without one leads me to belive otherwise

[digital fjord]

I did write one when I was applying, and did the whole thank you letter after interview thing as well, pretty sure it truly had exactly zero effect.

[true harness]

in the US it's common to have the option to submit one, but it's rarely required

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, in my case, it might be self-selected: we don't ask for them, therefore never get them.

[verbal sleet]

so just to continue this. I gave chat gpt a couple of SWE internship postings and asked it to make a blueprint of a cover letter that can be resued. this is what it made

Im no English major or anything but I dont think Its bad for a blue print. if you just put in good info in the sections outlined I think it could hold up

[near ocean]

The main concern with using chatgippity is that people could probably tell you used it

[digital fjord]

I was applying over email, so I just wrote one as the email body since just having "Hi I am applying to your position resume attached" felt a bit too weird.

[true harness]

ah yeah. i did write a cover letter through email one time. they kinda ghosted me afterwards though 😩

[vapid jay]

What was the website again h

[turbid bobcat]

just found a position where I tick pretty much all of the boxes, idk y I haven't thought of this, but I can apply to tech jobs that also require domain knowledge from my previous field

[tardy pewter]

Any tips on how to get a job/internship? I’m working on the University of Michigan’s Python 3 course on coursera and want to see where I can take it when I’m done

[peak halo]

Do you have any other university or professional experience? Unfortunately, doing a coursera course probably won't have any perceived value among prospective employers.

[tardy pewter]

I don’t unfortunately. I’m trying to build a resume but it’s hard when I don’t have much money. Maybe working on independent projects until I have a good framework to send to employers?

[peak halo]

Online courses that aren't part of a degree, and independent projects, have very little perceived value. Any time you apply for a position, you'd immediately be considered less qualified than any applicant with a degree or professional experience.

[tardy pewter]

Ah, okay. So is there any way to get a job with Python without a degree?

[fringe sphinx]

See this thread from yesterday: #career-advice message

[peak halo]

You don't really get a job "with Python". You get a job doing a certain kind of software development (or DS/AI/ML*) that might involve Python to a varying extent. And generally speaking, people only get those jobs without a degree or professional experience in uncommon circumstances.

*\ these positions virtually require an advanced degree.

[sand bison]

Sololearn

[smoky quest]

A CS degree will be the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[pine sleet]

it is possible. you just need to prove to employers that you're a better fit than people with degrees, previous work experience and internship, and great projects

and the soft skills that also come with finishing a univeristy degree, of course

[tardy pewter]

Can you get an internship w/o a degree?

[peak halo]

internships are typically only offered to current university students

[weary trench]

İ need to ask something how long does it take to become an ML specialist enough to be employable

What should i expect

[fringe sphinx]

What’s your starting point?

Like, what experience, programming and math knowledge and education l?

[weary trench]

İ have beginner python knowledge so i think i can handle that part easier but thats about it

[peak halo]

you either need a bachelors degree where you got tangible ML experience as an undergrad, or more likely, a masters degree. (You almost certainly will not get an ML job without a degree.)

[fringe sphinx]

And are you just looking for a career in tech, or specifically ML/Data Science because you think that’s the best place to make $$?

(I’m more or less going to say the same as Stel)

[weary trench]

İ am looking for a career in tech because i genuinely love it and

[weary trench]

Well it is not pretty much an option for me getting a degree on those

[long solar]

I could delay my graduation by one semester then. Fall 2025 instead of Spring 2025

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I think most people ask about Ml because it’s a hot topic.. ok. Maybe check this discussion from yesterday? #career-advice message

[peak halo]

Why is it not an option?

[weary trench]

İt is not because of scholar situations in my country and because of the fact that my middle school math teacher screwed my math for good

İ got stuck from there he didnt taught anything so i am fixing it as i go

[peak halo]

This is where, Turkey? Because the AI director at my company is Turkish.

And no one "screwed your math for good". You can overcome.

[weary trench]

Yes Turkey but school system gradually got worse here

President basically eliminated barrier for entry to schools so anyone and everyone who breaths can apply for college

[long solar]

I too want a job at openai

[weary trench]

And it is currently next to impossible to get the school you want in here without knowing someone in government

[weary trench]

İ dont want a job there i want to open my own company

[long solar]

Then you don’t need a degree at all

Just need knowledge, don’t need proof of the knowledge

[smoky quest]

so you are saying you will have no problem getting into college for a degree?

[smoky quest]

yeah, then you can find a technical partner.
Finding a technical partner will depend on what you can bring to the table

[weary trench]

İ know that but it is my plan for future i am 18 years old currently

[smoky quest]

Then get into college for a degree

[weary trench]

İ am in college my situation is very complex to explain seriously

[smoky quest]

From the employers' perspective: that's a @weary trench problem. What will matter is how you stack comparing to the other thousands of applicants. And without a degree or something extraordinary, that' won't be veyr high

[weary trench]

Well it doesnt have to be ML i just want to do something with Python

İ mean what are my options what can i do i really need some help i am very desperate and scared of my future

[fringe sphinx]

Advice: 1. Program. A lot. Practice and get good. With time, you can be great. 2. Learn: hang out in #python-discussion , watch conference videos, learn new topics. 3. Get your foot in the door in tech, even if it’s not a programming job. 4. Keep working towards a degree, keep your education going, even if part time.

[fringe sphinx]

Options: don’t know your market. If you were in US, I’d say go for any tech job possible (qa, support, Whatever). A little tech knowledge and a willingness to learn goes a long way.

[weary trench]

A degree here is not an option for me more time i spend in Turkey harder it gets to leave country

İ want to escape this hellhole ASAP

[fringe sphinx]

Yup, I understand, just saying that it should be part of your longer plan.

[weary trench]

Does coursera certificates or google's worth anything (or ones from companies like those)

[fringe sphinx]

And real advice: talk to people from Turkey with your background. Network constantly. Your goal should be to talk to as many people and hear -their- stories.

[fringe sphinx]

Not for programming jobs, but other jobs do value certs (but certain certs are better than others)

Look at job descriptions to get an idea of what people are looking for

[weary trench]

Then why are they having those courses?

[balmy spade]

Most courses exist to make someone money.

As Billy said, experience and practice are valuable to you. If a course is what you need to learn, then the course has value. To you.

[weary trench]

Okay then again what should i do? İ am clueless

[harsh river]

the path of least resistance is a college degree.

[weary trench]

As i said i want to do a job with python but i dont know what

[balmy spade]

This seem reasonable advice to start with: #career-advice message

[weary trench]

Not for me it is

[harsh river]

is there a reason why?

[weary trench]

Yes there are multiple ones actually both personal ones and both external ones outside of my control

İs it really impossible to get a job without a goddamn degree

İ am poor like really poor and getting poorer everyday

[smoky quest]

It's the same for everyone for a good career.
Not choosing that route means you are doing some exchange for a more difficult path and/or less opportunities and compensation

[weary trench]

İ mean if i try here i would die starving from poorness i barely survive as it is

[smoky quest]

Something that uses python are things related to automation. So helping small companies to automate might be a way once you have built up your skills. But that will still be at the exchange of a lower future and opportunities

[smoky quest]

The first priority is to feed yourself and have a shelter. So get any job, even if it is unrelated to python and computers. You can then work on improving your situation towards python

[weary trench]

İ already handled it but i dont have the luxury for picking a college here and also colleges in turkey are so shit they have almost 0 recognition in most places

So it means nothing if you dont get in top #1 in here

[smoky quest]

I have plenty of coworkers from turkey with degrees from turkey. So I don't believe the schools are shit

99.999% of companies only care that you got the degree, not that you got it from the best school of your country. And if you ask people outside of your country, no one would know nor care about the top school of Turkey. Like would you know what's the top school in Argentina? What about Portugal?

[weary trench]

Okay how old they are?

[smoky quest]

The whole spectrum

[weary trench]

And when did they graduate? Because in last 5-6 years schools here turned into political places or money traps it is common place for students to gather and beat each other and profs are at their position because they have relatives in government

[smoky quest]

So that's why you don't want a degree despite everyone else relying on it?

Employers aren't stupid. If the degree was so bad and meant so little, they would stop asking about it. They would focus on what get them the best engineers

[weary trench]

Look i am not here to argue i just seek some help,guidance whatever from someone who knows it and i AM in college currently studying by the way just a different degree than programming

[smoky quest]

Sounds good. Then you got all the answers you need already

[weary trench]

İ just want to learn what are the jobs i can do if i learn python and can i do internship after learning and would publishing research papers and doing projects on my own help me

[smoky quest]

All these were already answered except for the publishing research paper. To which publishing research paper would not be a goal to seek as it would have a high bar and lower ROI than projects

[weary trench]

Can you link the answers please (and also thank you for your time and answering all my questions really)

And what do you mean by high bar and lower ROİ than projects?

[smoky quest]

I don't have the time, nor the interest.
I would suggest to re-read the whole conversation with everyone else from the start

[smoky quest]

Publishing research paper implies researching and writing about something novel. That does mean being knowledgeable and familiar with the state of the art in a specific area and spending time and energy finding something novel and worth publishing. That takes a lot of time and energy.
On top of that, AI can easily become quite expensive as fancy GPUs are more and more needed.
On top of that, you are unfamiliar with the publishing requirements, style, circuit, etc. So even if you find a novel idea, getting it published will be something completely new to you. And that's something that won't really contribute directly to you being hired.
And on top of that, employers care about selling their product, not finding novel ideas. So the skills demonstrated there won't fully intersect with the skills employers care about
So to get a research paper published has a very low probability and requires a lot of effort and time.

Employers care about demonstrated skills. So for the same amount of time you spend trying to publish your research paper, you could spend it on impressive projects to demonstrate the skills employers care about

[restive rose]

Anyone in here from the AEC industry? Architects, Engineers or BIM Coordinators etc?

[smoky quest]

what would you ask if there was such people here?

[restive rose]

I’d ask if anyone has created any plugins on Revit using pyRevit and how they rolled it out to a large group of revit users

[vapid jay]

Hello, I am sort of in a dilemma between quitting my current job or pushing for a bit.

[smoky quest]

Hi!
Is there a question? How may we help you?

[vapid jay]

I was going to put this here, but sent it to ChatGPT instead lol:

I joined a start up last year, almost about to finish 1 year over here. Work here has been quite an adventure I think I have learnt a great deal of things I did not know before.

I joined a start up last year with around 4 employees including myself, and one left and other 3 got fired due to performance issues (at least that's what the boss said).
I am not sure whether it would be a good choice for me to leave as well. It's a startup so pay is not great, it's not on par with the amount and the quality of work I do.

I am working as a Data engineer, but I have also not finished my Bachelors yet. Most of my work involved backend development, bug fixes etc using Python and work in GCP.

I am in Brisbane Australia. I am in the second year of my Bachelors. I am now working in the industry for 1 year.

I don't know what to say because I don't wanna sound ungrateful but I am also dedicating 8 hours per day for 5 days per week and I want to ensure I am getting the best out of it, etc.

I have tried applying for random jobs on Linkedin related to Python and GCP but get denied saying they are after someone who is a Senior and have more experience under the belt.

[regal axle]

I would highly suggest talking to your boss (manager) about your feelings. Let them know that you feel a) scared about the security of this position given the low tenure rate and b) beginning to become overqualified for the original position, while not ungrateful for the current position, "I am wondering if there is a career path you have defined for me?" Something along those lines.

But talking to your boss is important. If they either don't quell your fears, or worse lash out at you in some way, than you got your answer, quit. But otherwise, you might be able to work something out. A good manager would be able to take these conversations and help get you on the right track.

[regal axle]

Yea this is a bigger problem. Getting another job ... The market is not great right now for junior developers. A lot of companies are not in a position to take risks // the time on the new devs.

[vapid jay]

The thing is I have not yet been overqualified for the current position. Data Engineer is what I have been hired as and I have mostly worked with Backend Development using Python FastAPI, maintaining ETL Data Pipelines, etc. It requires me to sometimes work outside normal working hours as well to meet deadlines. Some changes needs to happen after business hours as well so outside my working hours.

The dissatisfaction sort of comes from not being paid enough even as a Backend Developer while being given a position that I am underqualified for but still doing it right so far.

[regal axle]

Ahh. Well I still think this is something to bring up. You can always come in with all the info showing how you are a good performer and you get all of your work done. You don't have to ask for a raise but rather just ask about what the growth plan looks like. If there even is one. And I would say that if you are getting all of your work down on time but it is pushing you a little, you are qualified for that position. Maybe there is room to be even more qualified for it, but that doesn't mean you are underqualfied.

There are other people in here with more experience with this than me, so maybe wait for them to weigh in.

I think that trying to look for other employment is fine. But that doesn't mean you necessarily have to jump ship just yet.

[sage prawn]

Hry

[velvet wedge]

hi

i heard that there are 4 year courses that you can do from home (like along with another course/ or with your job). So i wanted to know whether software engineering is one such course in India, or I will have to do classes for it. Please tell and thank you.

[crisp stream]

!rule 6 9 | We're not a job board, sorry. See the channel description for links to a few job boards.

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[regal axle]

The problem is that the world is really competitive. So while these exist, they are not valued as high. And in India, from what I know, it is so much more competitive and you really need to do a lot to have even a slight chance. So .... if you can do "proper" courses, I would. If that isn't really an option,,, there are other routes but they require a lot more work to get started

[velvet wedge]

Like I want to do aeronautical, but given these times, I feel like I should also have a software degree. So any comments?

[limber musk]

what things i need to know to become a data scientist and is there a competitive enivornment of data science jobs in india?

what is the job of data scientist?

or data analyst?

[vapid jay]

Yeah fair enough.

[limber musk]

is there any coding jobs online for freshers in python?

or what automation can i do with python to help others in their business?

[gritty rivet]

Not really. You can have a look on Upwork and Fiverr but as you'll see there are lots of very cheap but experienced people to compete with

You're more likely to find a normal job first and gain experience

[slender thorn]

[For Hire] [Remote] [Full Stack Developer]

Greetings,

I am an accomplished Full Stack Developer with a rich experience spanning over 10 years in web and mobile application development, with a particular focus on Frontend technologies.

✨ Professional Skillset ✨
Frontend Development: Proficient in React, Vue, Next.js, Nuxt.js, and React Native.
Backend Development: Experienced in Java, PHP, Laravel, Node.js, and Express.
Database Management: Skilled in MongoDB, PostgreSQL, and MySQL.

✨ Core Strengths ✨
Team Collaboration: Committed to working cohesively with teams to achieve project goals.
Client Satisfaction: Dedicated to exceeding client expectations through meticulous work.
Attention to Detail: Focused on delivering precise and error-free applications.
Timely Project Delivery: Proven track record of completing projects within deadlines.

✨ Career Highlights ✨
Expertise in transforming initial concepts into responsive, high-quality products.
Demonstrated proficiency in completing complex projects under tight deadlines.
Specialized in enhancing website functionality and user experience for optimal satisfaction.

Currently, I am seeking new opportunities and am available for immediate engagement. I am enthusiastic about contributing my expertise to innovative projects. Please feel free to contact me directly through DM for discussions or potential collaborations.

Thank you for considering.

[harsh river]

!rule paid

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[fringe sphinx]

^ You can post a resume for review/feedback, but this isn’t a job board.

[outer siren]

can someone suggest me a good python playlist for begginners?

[fringe sphinx]

!resources has lots of links. A byte of Python and automate the boring stuff are the most popular intro to Python programming. Easy, clear, short. There’s also some YouTube channels like Corey Schaffer. And, if you want a structured course; CS50p from Harvard (free). .

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[royal terrace]

can someone help me with a react app problem?

[regal axle]

#❓｜how-to-get-help

[royal terrace]

I was asking cuz it's a python server

[stark grail]

would a college technical certification be seen the same as a normal certification like A+ in IT

[regal axle]

I mean, people know. You can always ask and if no one answers, you got your answer (about the server). It’s more likely to get help with python specific questions. But others do get answered.

[royal terrace]

ok brother i'll try

[hearty island]

what is CACI International's deal, they seem extremely hard to get into

[gritty rivet]

If it's not an actual degree, then no.

An Associates Degree plus a few CompTIA certs (the typical trifecta is A+/Net+/Sec+) would make you a solid candidate for entry-level desktop support and help desk roles

But to really evaluate the specific program you're considering, I would get on LinkedIn and see who's doing what with it, and ask those people

[stark grail]

ty

[fringe sphinx]

But I think they were asking about professional development certificates, which many uni’s offer as short programs (3-6 month , sometimes longer). I do see these sometimes, often used like a mini-masters (post bachelors but not a full masters program), and I think their value is in the knowledge more than the ‘certificate’ itself

[waxen summit]

hey guys, my name is joao and i am from Brazil. i really like using python for web scraping and create bots, i have some intermidiate projects that i have been working on since last year, i am trying to work as an intern here in Brasil. I would like some tips to build a portfolio using simply HTML and CSS (i hate front-end), do you guys know some feature where i cant build it as simply as possible just to put my projects links on?

[weak kindle]

You can check YT videos for html css portfolio tutorial... Something like that.

[buoyant seal]

Doing same stuff at the moment, building my simple portfolio site

Chose for that golang and library allowing me generating html/CSS/JS in a static typed way
Templ
Looks really powerful, yet really simple static site generating with full flexibility to end result generation ^_^

Not sure if there is any python equivalent for this

Component writing and pretty much an array of full frontend framework features capabilities are present. Yet without a single bit of JavaScript

In python world it is common to go Jinja, but I think it is horribly wrong instrument as it has no validations

[buoyant seal]

Found something similar in python.
https://github.com/cenkalti/pyhtml?tab=readme-ov-file

[waxen summit]

thank you very much

[buoyant seal]

^_^ fair warning. python equvalient not that supported and mature as "templ go" solution. Really recommending templ if u are willing to learn quickly golang 😅

[smoky quest]

yeah, any static site generator will do. In most cases, you will barely need to customize anything

[buoyant seal]

https://www.mkdocs.org/
Speaking of static site generators. Mkdocs in python ecosystem is simple as brick. Really elegant solution.
U just write stuff in markdown, it generates html site for you
Low level of customization, yet doing its job
Hmm, it claims it being very customizable though 😅

[worldly salmon]

im getting an http error 400 for bad request when trying to make a card on trello api for a culminating project any ideas? the api key and token and trello board id all are accurate

[fleet reef]

This is #career-advice
See #❓｜how-to-get-help -- and make sure to post your code and the response you're getting, we can't do anything if we can't see what's happening

[waxen summit]

thank you very much guys, i will start creating my portfolio tomorrow!

[worldly salmon]

my bad didnt even notice

[drowsy fox]

anyone want to practice data analysis on python (pandas, numpy, matplotlib, seaborn)?

[heady wyvern]

Does it matter where you get your Computer Science degree? I was accepted into University of Washington Tacoma, but I dont know how their CS program compares to the actual Seattle campus thats well known for being competitive to get into for CS and also one of the best in the country.

[smoky quest]

All in all, a better school will yield more/better opportunities. But the difference will be tiny comparing to having a degree or not

[heady wyvern]

a lot of the jobs im viewing on google want a bachelors

[smoky quest]

yep, they do want that

[heady wyvern]

apple literally wants 10 years of relevant work experience MINIMUM... also a bachelors degree.. this is for machine learning.

[smoky quest]

and some companies like netflix won't even hire below senior too

[heady wyvern]

do employers care what school it is?

[smoky quest]

not really

[fringe sphinx]

My experience has been: outside a handful of top schools, the school doesn’t matter tremendously. Internships may be easier to land from “better” schools, and maybe some slight boost from local job fairs/on campus recruiting, but nobody cares once you’re interviewing and certainly not for second job

(By top schools, I’m talking the mit’s, stanfords, etc)

[smoky quest]

cmu*

[heady wyvern]

what about private schools? i was also accepted into a private school for computer science

[fringe sphinx]

Outside of the absolutely top schools, nobody cares, imo.

[smoky quest]

Think about your future coworker from Kansas. What are the top 5 schools in Kansas without googling?

[heady wyvern]

i dont know

[smoky quest]

exactly, neither would everyone else

[heady wyvern]

UW is a big name... though, i feel like it would look better on my resume compared to a private school.

[fringe sphinx]

Are you a hs senior and have acceptances?

[heady wyvern]

yes

[fringe sphinx]

Ok, my son is too.

Also thinking CS

[heady wyvern]

good useful major. actually its probably the best.

[smoky quest]

UW is a big name.
How you spend your time and efforts will have more impact than the name of the school

(not as big as stanford or cmu still)

[fringe sphinx]

Gave him same advice; pick the school you want, don’t worry about brand. He’s not going to a top 5 (or whatever rank), so outside of that, the brand won’t matter.

[heady wyvern]

true. although I did not apply to the actual main campus, I think they let you transfer after 25 credits to the seattle campus.

its all one university just has 3 locations

[smoky quest]

Make sure you have fun, build cool stuff and make nice friends. Everything else will follow

[heady wyvern]

yep i still have a couple of months until i commit to whichever college.

[fringe sphinx]

Have you visited those campuses?

[heady wyvern]

yes

[smoky quest]

I highly recommend visiting campuses

[fringe sphinx]

Awesome, congratulations by the way!

[heady wyvern]

thanks

[fringe sphinx]

The nice thing also is: first two years of CS are basically the same everywhere.

Calc, intro, discrete, dsa, some gened’s, etc

[heady wyvern]

yep, i also have to wait for my FAFSA to come through. I am certain but not 100% sure that i will receive full tuition all 4 years from a scholarship i have.

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, that’s a big factor. A free ride at a UW campus vs $$$ at a private might be a pretty clear decision.

[long solar]

What if I can actually start a profitable company over the summer though

[smoky quest]

that may or may not provide relevant experience that an employer may be looking for

[near ocean]

You wont

[stone nymph]

offtopic - Not an experienced guy but have explored multiple careers by doing courses at home.

Being a mediocre engineer is easy but being a mediocre designer? Nope, you can't because there are way more talented and creative people and UX is not easy.

Still, see if it's your cup of tea. Many people assume that they can switch to UI UX but the thing is not easy and many who call they are UX designer do UI designing, both are different one is building the frame and the other is painting the frame. ( what this person said is true ? )

[turbid bobcat]

Hi, I'm thinking of formatting my bullet points using X, Y, Z, but explicitly like this:

• Task: [describe X ] Method: [ describe Y ] Result: [ describe Z ]

I've tried in a couple already and it looks a lot more readable

[vapid jay]

Hello everyone, How's it going? My name is Alex. Greetings from the Netherlands! right now 1 year into the IT, I learn alot of things from the internet, its a great way to learn + improve yourself. i have this question for a long time.. Can somebody Explain what are the requirements to work as a FullStack Developer? Right now i am 17 years old. I like to have some friends online that are into the IT, Because i want to learn more. Best Regards , Alex

[turbid bobcat]

Don't rush it, you have time, go to college, you'll meet tons of like minded people there, but prioritize depth of knowledge and technical prowess.

[vapid jay]

would you like to have a conversation with me ?

[turbid bobcat]

We're already talking ! Ahah

[untold folio]

do i need degrees to call myself python engineering or developer

[turbid bobcat]

I don't know but personally my criteria would be if you can do it professionally then you can call yourself a python dev.

[near ocean]

You probably shouldnt use "engineer" without specifying its for software
Some countries protect the title of engineer and could lead to confusion
If you develop in python youre a python developer, thats about it

[static yacht]

Any Python algo traders here?

[near ocean]

Do you have a question?

[static yacht]

I'm a novice was looking for advice

[near ocean]

Requests for general advice dont really get answers and when they do its pretty generic

What do you want advice with, whats your background, what are your goals

[tacit beacon]

A very quick almost philosophical question
I have been following some yuotubers like alex the analyst and kinda but not really copying their portfolio work, some EDA etc.
And I don't know I ujst feel like - am I cheating? Is this valuable to a recruiter that I did something like this on my own and posted this to my github? Of course using other data sets etc
I just need reassurance I guess

[regal axle]

Experience is experience. But not all experience is equal. So while it is helping you grow by doing what you are doing, you will grow many times more by doing your own problems. It also depends on how much are you copying. If you are basically just making a clone of the code ... not ideal. But if it is just a heavy inspiration, this could be fine.

Dig deep into something. Anything. And as for recruiters, they can figure out just how much you really know based on converstations they have with you. So if you are going to list it, you should know how everything works in decent detail. That is why doing your own thing is better, because you will automatically have a lot more to say about the project

[fringe sphinx]

Is what cheating? Not clear what you're describing.

[tacit beacon]

I am copying the code while trying to understand it and maybe make my own spin on it but like 80% of it is copying. Does it, idk, "count" as learning?

[fringe sphinx]

Also: Recruiters are just looking for keywords. You're really asking whether it's valuable to hiring managers (/ interviewers)

[tacit beacon]

Oh i am talking about entry level/internship type btw

[fringe sphinx]

If you're learning, you're learning. Nothing takes that away. But, the more you rely on crutches like YT walkthroughs and GPT, your development might be stunted: I'd worry that you might not be well-rounded and able to tackle a complex project without hand-holding.

[tacit beacon]

Oh right now I'm not - I'm a beginner

[azure heart]

How you get there isn't important, as long as you can eventually write it yourself

[fringe sphinx]

I'm a little confused tho: You mention EDA and analytics stuff, but what kind of internship are you looking for?

Do you have basic programming skills? Are you able to code a simple programming projects in python?

[tacit beacon]

I do
Yes, I am able to
The EDA is due to the project I am making ofr classes, EDA, some data cleaning, pandas numpy, as well as clustering and maybe a simple linear regression
The job I noticed is about SQL with "nice to have" skills listed are Power BI and some DAX

[fringe sphinx]

If you're working on your programming skills / reinforcing it, then yah, don't think it matters how you learn EDA/analytics.

Certainly go through kaggle, plenty of learning resources there too. And, my favorite EDA resource is https://www.itl.nist.gov/div898/handbook/

[tacit beacon]

is the link wrong or something? cant access it

[fringe sphinx]

Link works for me

https://www.itl.nist.gov/div898/handbook/

Also, for the entry SWEs I hire (in DE), I like to see some basic analytics projects in their resume. But, more often than not, they can't answer basic questions about Pandas or numpy or anything like that. It's usually some 1 semester project that they've already forgotten.

[tacit beacon]

it works now, weird

[tacit beacon]

oh thats very good to know, can you list some of the questions you ask? Just to get clearance

[fringe sphinx]

All I really do is ask them to explain the project. Like, let's say you made a git repo with a few notebooks that demonstrate EDA methods you've tried

[tacit beacon]

What and they can't answer? But it's so straightforward

[fringe sphinx]

I might pull that up, and ask you to explain and talk me through how you did it. Maybe ask questions about working with Pandas, for starters

[fringe sphinx]

You're taking an analytics course now, right?

[tacit beacon]

Data science to be exact, yes

[fringe sphinx]

Yup. What's your major? CS?

[tacit beacon]

I always have problems with those US namings, is major = bachelor?

[fringe sphinx]

Course = the class you're taking this semester.

Major = the program, like a Bachelors in Computer Science vs a Bachelors in Data Science

(the computer science part is the major)

And degree would be Bachelors or Masters/etc.

[tacit beacon]

My bachelor was finance and accounting with strong emphasis on statistics probability and econometrics
My masters is Data Science and business analytics
The course i'm taking is literally called Python and SQL: Intro

[fringe sphinx]

For CS bachelors that I interview, almost all took a data science class.

So, 4 months of, say, pandas & regressions & basic EDA

They never spent the time to get "deep" in the topic, nor remember any details 1-2 years later when they graduate.

Nothing wrong with that, it's just the reality of an undergraduate degree: breadth over depth. The candidates who stand out are the ones who kept at it: who had long-running projects or learning in data.

[tacit beacon]

I guess I feel so underqualified that I just want to prepare a lot? I don't know, but it feels good to hear that

[fringe sphinx]

Imposter syndrome is real. We all feel it. It's kinda healthy to use that as motivation to improve, but just don't let it get you down. You're exactly where you should be.

[hearty island]

if a job is saying you require a SECRET clearance, but then says later on they'll help you get said clearance, should you still apply?

[fringe sphinx]

Yes

[hearty island]

ah now ik why i can't seem to break into this company, they require 5 years of XP. not there yet 😦

[regal dove]

Hello, I'm Hanyang from Virginia, a software engineer with a bachelor's degree and 8 years of professional experience. In addition to my engineering skills, I'm a perpetual learner and an easy-going individual who enjoys engaging and collaborating with others.

Throughout my career, my primary responsibilities have involved designing and developing optimized, reliable, and scalable web applications. I'm proficient in a variety of technologies, with expertise in MERN, Django, and AWS, and I have experience working with both monolithic and microservices architectures. I have successfully delivered several large-scale projects, including e-commerce platforms, internal business management systems, ERPs, and more.

Allow me to highlight some of my key achievements:

1. Developed a real-time management module for an online teaching platform.
2. Created a product market price prediction and planning module.
3. Designed a business decision-making platform based on a complex relational database (with over 50 tables using PostgreSQL) and artificial neural networks (ANN).
4. Contributed to the development of optimized and scalable API servers.
5. Worked on user-facing applications using React and TypeScript.

My extensive skill set includes:

• Test-Driven Development with unit testing frameworks (Mocha, Chai, Jest).
• Server-side application development using Express.
• Proficiency in managing both relational and non-relational databases.
• Experience in microservice architecture development.
• Event-driven communication using technologies like RabbitMQ and Celery.
• Cloud function development.
• Real-time technology expertise using tools such as socket.io and Redis.
• Building Single Page Applications (SPAs).

Best regards.

[hearty island]

hey, we don't do hiring here. best of luck with your career stuff tho!

[tropic echo]

Hey, I'm very new to programming but I have a career question as I'm contemplating my future:
How realistic is it to have a programming-based side hustle, like web development as a part or full time job, and what are some of the best side hustles to go for?

[fringe sphinx]

Not sure I understand. How would a fulltime job also be a side hustle? What do you mean?

[tropic echo]

Sorry, I should clarify. As I develop my skills and progress through the rest of my education, it would have to remain a side hustle since my schooling wouldn't allow me to work full time. After completing my education, I would hope to turn the side hustle into a full-time business. Does that make more sense?

[fringe sphinx]

There's lots of "it depends" in there. What country? What education/degree level? Experience?

Generally: it's hard to "freelance"... but, there are always people who need web dev and stuff like that, if you can find them.

Side hustles: This is certainly a thing. Lots of people start ideas/projects/ventures on the side. Not easy, and not always makes $$, but it's a good experience.

[true harness]

you can't have a side hustle as a part time or full time job , by definition

[fringe sphinx]

Front hustle?

[true harness]

i think they call that a job

[tropic echo]

So it could easily be worth the experience for building a resume if nothing else?

[true harness]

definitely. i'm not sure if the information was given, but internships are very helpful also

[hearty island]

full hustle bro

[fringe sphinx]

Yes. Definitely.

[tropic echo]

Oh for sure 👍 sounds like its worth pursuing to me then: )

Thanks @fringe sphinx and @true harness 🙏 : )

[hearty island]

dumb question, but is there like a search bar in the linkedin search jobs besides just using ctrl + f

[fringe sphinx]

!warn 1080747439822221363 No advertisements in this server. Read our #rules before posting.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @olive crystal.

[hearty island]

what i mean by that is that if there's like a search bar that could help you search for roles in the jobs you've saved

[peak halo]

Please remove the last paragraph from your message; seeking employment is not allowed on this server.

[hearty island]

"Full Time, Monday - Friday 8:00am - 4:30pm. No weekends or holidays! Position would be working in a 100% remote capacity." does this mean weekends and holidays are given off? or does this mean they aren't? edit: i'm an idiot that can't read

[peak halo]

!cban 1080747439822221363 It appears that you're only here to seek employment

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @olive crystal permanently.

[hearty island]

dang the position was filled already

[turbid bobcat]

I got my first interview, I'm so happy rn 😁

It's a company in Zurich, I really really really wanted to try my luck in San Francisco, but that h1b lottery...

[hearty island]

good stuff man!! i have an interview for ericsson wednesday

[turbid bobcat]

Good luck !! 🍀

[hearty island]

ty :)))

i'm applying like wild again

[turbid bobcat]

I thought you had an offer already.

[hearty island]

i do, but it’s conditional

meaning shit can still go wrong and i need an insurance policy

[true harness]

isn't it just conditional on a background check though

[turbid bobcat]

I see, makes sense then. Ig you can also get competing offers

[hearty island]

not just that, there are other things

[turbid bobcat]

Oh, I think they even have to ask for permission to go deep in the bg check

[hearty island]

it’s a whole ordeal, we’ll see tho

[true harness]

what do they need?

[hearty island]

stuff i probably shouldn’t mention here lol

let’s just say it’s beyond the regular reqs for an office job

that’s why i’m looking for another offer

[true harness]

i see

[hearty island]

i’ll just keep applying

[maiden cedar]

Okay, I'm confused. I'm in my 2nd year of college (I'm doing AIML)

I have the chance to do a research paper on computer vision for the next semester. But I can also go for internships at a company. But the issue is ML interships are hard to come by, so I would prob have to do an internship on basic python programming or full stack. Which has better value in the AI market? A paper or an internship?

[regal axle]

Depends on what your goals are. But generally, a paper opens more doors. Again though, what type of work do you want to do?

[maiden cedar]

Well, I surely have to get into ML industry but I am slightly conflicted on whether I want to do research or nah

[fringe sphinx]

Im in the DE side, not DS; I value competent engineers who can write code and have experience. An internship is more important than research if your goal is to be a SWE. Perhaps DS folks might feel differently, but I assume pure research/science roles are rare compared to hands on practical role.

[gritty rivet]

If you're committed to doing ML work you will very likely need an advanced degree. If that is your plan, then working on the research paper is probably best.

If you're unsure, the research paper could be a good chance to explore...

But if you don't see yourself pursuing that and following through and need to be sure you're job ready when you finish your BS, then an internship will have much more value to that particular goal

To be clear I'm just a boring backend web guy with no experience in ML so take my advice with that grain of salt.

[smoky quest]

There is no right or wrong answer here.

With regards to the internship, that can give you the opportunity to contribute to a real life project and see how a company works. It might help you come back to school with a better sense of how industry practitioners think and apply all these classes you are going through. It can be a useful experience even if you don't plan on going in the industry and satisfy potential FOMO

Besides its usefulness if you intend on taking a more academic route, a research opportunity can help give you an advantage for jobs where that topic researched come into play and to give you more skills in terms of theory, reading papers, etc. which might end up useful in the industry as well

[winged jewel]

Hey guys, I enjoy python and I'm getting back into it. I want to focus on some kind of main area like data science or cryptography or something cool like that

I was into trying to make a programming language before but that stuff is way 2 hard so that's a no

How do I decide which area I should go for? I do want to have a career in computer science for a variety of reasons so I think choosing a main area and learning for fun could help a lot with it

[gritty rivet]

So you'll be getting a degree in CS?

Nobody can tell you what you should focus on specializing in. You try things and figure out where you fit.

[winged jewel]

I plan on it. I got some time until then but thats where I want to go honestly

[summer roost]

build a lot of stuff, and see what you find most interesting/rewarding/challenging

[winged jewel]

Ok that sounds good, thank you

[summer roost]

!rule 9

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[summer roost]

please delete this message

!tempban 1098629617935454270 90d Scammy advertising spam

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @red gorge until <t:1713126888:f> (2 months and 30 days).

[brazen trail]

can you do both? get an internship on computer vision

[novel sleet]

I've heard some places that universities have indirect field specializations, like 2 of the same schools in 2 different places, might be better at one thing/language than the other, and vice versa

[sonic magnet]

Hello guys I'm new here. Just started learning phyton. Don't know if anyone will like to study together

[fringe sphinx]

#python-discussion is a whole channel of people learning Python, start there

[gritty rivet]

Then I agree with godlygeek... Just explore and have fun, try whatever keeps you coding!

[verbal sleet]

Hey so as a second year in college should I be worrying about trying to get an AWS cert?

[peak halo]

you can probably never worry about getting an AWS cert

[verbal sleet]

really? I though it was something a lot of people get?

[balmy spade]

If you're learning AWS cloud deployment they are nice pick-ups along the way. That college degree will carry farther though.

So "worry about", no. Work the time to grab it while not sacraficing the current goal? Sure.

[verbal sleet]

Ok cool this sem Im taking assembly language and think im gunna start doing a ML side project because rn im not getting anything back from internships

[balmy spade]

Yeah. Doesn't sound like studying and passing a cloud enablement certificate for a specific cloud provider is at the top of your list at the moment. Maybe for that ML side project you'll want to poke at deployment options, containers, or even sagemaker stuff. But that's just normal "gonna learn stuff!".

[distant urchin]

i have recently completed my CS50 web dev i was wondering if i could stand a chance in job market for web devs.. i am planning to make some exiting projects... speaking of my other education i am not yet a graduate i do have some certication of cs50 like cs50python and cs50sql

[smoky quest]

nope. That's just an introduction.
A CS degree will be the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[distant urchin]

oh ok but my current situation doesnt allow me do it.. was thinking can some good projects could back it up?

[true harness]

cs50 is one course out of maybe 15 CS courses that a CS student would take

[distant urchin]

or i should look a online degree

[smoky quest]

Sure but then you are choosing a path with more resistance and lower opportunities and compensation.
You could look at https://roadmap.sh as a source of inspiration

[distant urchin]

then my only option will be a online degree ig but have a bad feeling it would be wasteful..

[blazing harbor]

go to community college if you can

[distant urchin]

there are many topics i am not familiar with in this like docker,tdd etc

[blazing harbor]

get the basics down and then transfer to a 4 year university and get a bachelors degree; possibly get an internship junior year of university

with that, you can maybe get a return offer; you could also leverage the connections at the 4 year university to get a full time offer and you go from there

[smoky quest]

that's expected. CS50 is just an introduction. It's like the very first class of the very first month of a 4 years long degree.

[blazing harbor]

what do you think about the plan I gave zlatan

[distant urchin]

i live in india

[smoky quest]

that sounds like a solid plan, especially if money is tight

[blazing harbor]

hmm the job market is especially competitive there

https://leetcode.com/discuss/interview-experience/4527006/overcoming-a-series-of-rejections-how-i-landed-multiple-job-offers-repost

[distant urchin]

yea sure but thats not the case for small start ups

[smoky quest]

I would venture it's the same in India

the market is about the supply and demand. And right now, there is a lot of applicants.
Furthermore, the impact of an engineer in startups is multiple times the impact of someone in a large company. So if anything, they will be more demanding in their interviews and in who they recruit

[distant urchin]

do you mean a traditional university? do online ones offer same quality?

[vapid jay]

I graduated from University, trying to get hired with a job that involves Python , right now I am reading through and doing the code of Learning Python and Programming Python to actually have a good project out of the box, I am also doing Leetcode to keep what I get from Learning Python fresh. I want to finish these books by months end, what else do I need to get my first job?

I have been through many youtube videos and there is a lot of info out there, but nobody seems to have good info.

[smoky quest]

Make sure your resume is up to date and attractive

[vapid jay]

Which begs the question : What is "Up to date" and what is "attractive" ? ? ?

[smoky quest]

Something that represents your education, skills and experience in a manner that would make people want to call you back for an interview

Feel free to post an anonymized version for review and feedback

[vapid jay]

The last time I posted my resume, I was specifically told my skills were "wide". As my resume is, I do not get called back, I get rejection letters months later.

Okay, let me ask a better question : What would someone hiring for a role with Python at a tech company like Netflix look for?

[smoky quest]

netflix does not hire entry level engineers

you picked the worst company 😉

[vapid jay]

LMFAO whaaaaT?!

They literally have "entry level role" on their site. 😆 I've been scammed! Catfished!

[smoky quest]

That would mean they have changed their practices. Not sure when.
But yeah, they used to fancy themselves to a NBA team and only hire the seniors and above

[smoky quest]

do you have a link?

[vapid jay]

https://jobs.netflix.com/new-grad-program Well, there's this.

[smoky quest]

I didn't see any opening on their careers list though

[vapid jay]

I definitely saw this last year, but that opening was for January 2024 at the time.

[smoky quest]

Sure, but I don't see any right now

[karmic marsh]

#1035199133436354600

[vapid jay]

From what I understood, hiring is usually done in January - March then again in May until June and then again in September?

[vapid jay]

I can't do anything about that, man. :/ I just have my memories.

[smoky quest]

You can ask your career related questions here

[smoky quest]

I mean sure, but since they don't have any opening for juniors right now, I would suggest to focus on companies which do

[vapid jay]

Right.

[karmic marsh]

nah i couldnt see the channel so i pinged it to find it myb

[smoky quest]

and either way, your previous message hinted at your resume not being too attractive. Do you mind posting the latest?

[vapid jay]

One sec....

[karmic marsh]

[vapid jay]

tried to post it, discord didn't like that. . . . So, here's a screenshot.

This was my resume about. . . .4 months ago? I already know what you're going to say. . ."Dog sitter? WTF" my mom and aunts basically breathed down my neck and kept asking me to include any and all experience despite my protests that it wasn't "relevant" worked as well as I expected.

I was hoping the applications I made would be good enough for them to let that slide, but apprently no.

[smoky quest]

• Always go in reverse chronological order
• Reviewer make a decision under 30-45s. So put the information that matters first. And dog walking, does not matter
• It doesn't look like you have had internships
• The descriptions of your projects make them way too generic

Yeah, overall your resume doesn't sell you as a knowledgeable and skilled engineer

[vapid jay]

. . . . . .

[smoky quest]

there is a lesson there:

• Have a version for your mom/aunt to be happy
• Have a real version

[vapid jay]

Useful. So, how do I sell myself as a knowledgable and skilled engineer?

Also, I had no internships. Not like that matters, apparently people have internships on their resume and still get dusted.

[smoky quest]

It's way too generic as it is like "developed backend". Like bro, what's cool about it? What gets your eyes scintillating when geeking about it? What are you proud about? Any interesting number?

and also the fact that a backend could be super simple or super complex. But without details, it's hard to tell the difference

[vapid jay]

Bro, listen . . . . . What you're telling me right now isn't useful.

[smoky quest]

So what would be useful to you?

[vapid jay]

Well here is the thing, one minute you tell me that reviewers make decisions in 30-45 seconds so put important stuff first, that I get.

Now you're telling me developed backend isn't useful because its generic, and doesn't get my eyes moving and asking what I'm proud of. . . But, does my pride even matter to these people?

Let's say I make a project and I'm proud of it and gets my eyes moving but its STILL not good enough? Then the goal post moves to "Just because you're proud of it doesn't make it good or relevant."

I'm expected to build something from a tech stack that people are using (relevant.) and I am expected to have a resume that is updated on what I have done. (up to date.) fine. But like. . . .WHAT tech stacks does a python engineer use in video / image processing?

Okay, let's say I wanted a job at Grammarly or Duolingo?

You have told me what NOT to do. . . .But what is something that I need TO do? Like your advice gets me from -1 to 0, but a 0 is still not good enough, don't you agree?

what do people at Grammarly or Duolingo use Python for?

Most importantly : If my goal is to get eyes moving and show work I'm proud of: How MUCH of that needs to be communicated? You gotta realize? What you see as "generic" is only so because it used to be a paragraph in each project line, but I was told to chop it down and make it so HR can read it fast.

Now you're telling me that I need to include more info again? Like, who is telling the truth here?

???

[true harness]

there is a middle ground between vague and too much, where important details are told, but not too many details

[smoky quest]

These are great thoughts!

Now you're telling me that I need to include more info again? Like, who is telling the truth here?

Both!
Writing a resume is an exercise in communication and about your abilities to convey your value succinctly and to the point.
Whenever I put a job ad out, I get thousands of applicants. Each one of them trying to claim how they are awesome. And claiming to have written a backend doesn't get you much point when everyone else in the world has done it, you know?

So it comes down to being able to articulate how better you are. And there is a correlation between what you are proud of with cool stuff you do. Because who would be proud of basic stuff?
You are correct you run the risk of being proud of mundane feats, but that's still pretty low in the grand scheme of things and it's a great opportunity to adjust your expectations

[vapid jay]

Sounds like I need to be Superman for this, and I don't mind that. That's kind of what I do.

[smoky quest]

You don't need to be superman. You need to be in the top 10 of the thousands of applicants.
Most resumes are trash and it's very doable

[vapid jay]

Thing is, I'm at a point where I just need a win and to not be Superman for nothing again.

Hmmm. . . .

[smoky quest]

I understand it can be very frustrating, especially as you enter the active life.
I would suggest to:

• see it as a sales funnel
• don't attach your ego and worth to interviews

[vapid jay]

Look, in 2024 the first thing I realized is that my ego can take me high when I bring results, but right now I am not bringing results in anything that I'm doing, so I put my ego to the side.

Alright, I'm beginning to see the picture here.. ..

@smoky quest If you wanted to start your own company one day, but you lacked a trust fund or college connections and needed to get your start, what would you make with code? Something that you can get very good at making and get hired, but also use it as an entrepreneur and pass on to team mates when you delegate.

[smoky quest]

Everyone is in the same boat. The only thing I can tell you is that being persistent will pay off.
You have a degree, you have projects and are in a good shape. You only need to sharpen your resume and interview skills. And be persistent

[vapid jay]

persistence is my middle name! 😂

[smoky quest]

entrepreneurship is very different from normal jobs

[vapid jay]

Yes, it is. But you know what? People who try to become an entrepreneur with nothing to offer are typically snake oil salesman or broke, I'm too proud to sell snake oil and I don't wanna be broke.

Sides, even Jeff Bezos had a J.O.B. before starting Amazon.

[smoky quest]

not necessarily.
Anyone can start a company, so obviously you will find the bad and good

[vapid jay]

What I mean to say is : Having something of value to offer with your company is better than being a confidence person.

[smoky quest]

Having experience does increase your odds of success though

[vapid jay]

One company I'm interested in is that Diaper company that shook Amazon. Apparently scared them so much that they bought them and destroyed them.

Another thing that genuinely bothers me is how hard it is to find a backpack without going on Amazon.

[smoky quest]

I would suggest to focus on tech companies which will value better your skills

[vapid jay]

That's kind of the point of what I'm saying: I have soft skills enough to give myself an A, but my hard skills I'd give a C. Capable, but lacking in tacticity.

[smoky quest]

so make a list of things that worry you and work on them

[vapid jay]

Okay, that's kind of diverging from the point though.

If my goal is entrepreneurship, and working a job is a means to an end surely there is an area of programming I can specialize in that I can carry with me?

Something that is consistent that every tech company needs at its core?

[smoky quest]

learning about how companies work and are structured can be life saving when building your own company.
Same thing about how to define and build products

[vapid jay]

Hmmmm. Alright.

I think I should push my deadline back for these textbooks then. Give myself another 2 weeks.

[smoky quest]

you have plenty of time.
You will still learn new things in 10 years

[vapid jay]

Uhhh, I kiiind of need a job by this may, bro. ^^;

[smoky quest]

well, there is the rent part too

[vapid jay]

Which is why I'm trying to get through these textbooks fast, you see?

But speed can only last so long if I don't know what I'm doing it for, so I'll research some tech stacks.

[smoky quest]

But don't stop learning.
I can guarantee you there are many jobs you don't even know exist, be it in CS or even outside of CS that will be needed when you build your own company

[vapid jay]

Learning is my bread and butter. Even in weightlifting and martial arts.

Apparently, most Americans don't read? Their loss. Even kids on Tiktok read, they call it BookTok.

Bro, can you explain what that moyai response means?

I see that in the Youtube comments section and here, and you can't urban dictionary emojiis, LMFAO.

[harsh river]

you should stop getting your information from tik tok

[smoky quest]

I find it funny

[vapid jay]

No. Stop that. I never said I got my info from TikTok. You spread fake news about me one more time and I swear to god, I will harness my inner Dominican and smack your hand with the HARDEST, LARGEST and most DEADLY shaped wooden spoon.

[harsh river]

if americans didnt read, then they wouldnt have cafes in pretty much every single town you ever go to

[vapid jay]

I said "most" Americans don't read. . . . . You are so close to getting smacked with that spoon, watch it bub.

[smoky quest]

it doesn't really matter to #career-advice either way

[harsh river]

theres no need to get angry.

[vapid jay]

Good, you wouldn't like me when I'm angry. 💚

[harsh river]

i don't care if you do either way 🙂

[vapid jay]

What?! You don't care?! About my feelings?! That's it, the gloves are off, I'll have you thrown in twitter - jail!

nah but we're getting too far off topic. Thx for the help, @smoky quest I'll be back with more questions once I do some more research.

[vapid jay]

I need help with this code can someone help me

[low halo]

hi. this is #career-advice , please take a look at #❓｜how-to-get-help

[vapid jay]

I did can you check it out

[raven olive]

What are some good projects I should work on to learn skills that will get me closer to being able to get an interview?

Any suggestions?

[zealous path]

Depends what position you’re interviewing for.
Different jobs will have different skill prerequisites

[raven olive]

Well I've been studying for software engineering and recently started a boot camp for it. Just wondering if there were any projects that are challenging to try

[shut lark]

e

[turbid bobcat]

I just found out about this, in the top left corner, do you see that imperceptible gray square ? It's a 1x1 pixel image on my email that I selected with the mouse. It's used to track when you open the e-mail.

this is an email from hr

[charred brook]

hey is it ok if i ask you guys for python coding help on this cannel?

[near ocean]

No, this is for careers related talk
Use #python-discussion and #❓｜how-to-get-help

[cosmic shard]

I do many developments a day, some have Jira Id some dont. I can not remember what I created, modified after week. and folders, documents are piling up. Is there a way to track these development personally that used in current industry. It can be folder structure, or some kind of note taking system.

[buoyant seal]

we use Git and Github accordingly 😊
every modification is git commited
and submitted as Pull Request
everything not approved, awaits approval, and then just merged
relevant Pull requests are linked with Jira IDs

[near ocean]

not me mistyping the jira id in the commit message and wondering where the fuck my changes went

[buoyant seal]

We have in GitHub button of opened your own pull requests that were not merged yet.
I clean up this list of all my created PRs usually.
So it is important for me having opened at least draft PR for remembering

[near ocean]

Im sure theres a way to do that with bitbucket but cba to figure it out

The changes are there even with the bad id but they wont show up in jira and its trippy

[abstract imp]

Hi everyone, im about 15 and just completed a uni course on foundation programming which teaches basic - mid level python, psuedocode and debugging, its more entry level but where could i take this to develop before I finish school so i have a head start

[fringe sphinx]

best advice is: keep programming - small (and then no-so-small) projects that you find interesting. Hang out in #python-discussion and you'll see what other people are discussing and learning.

[fringe sphinx]

!kindling Is one resource you can use for project ideas

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[buoyant seal]

https://codingchallenges.fyi/challenges/intro
https://nedbatchelder.com/text/kindling.html
Find what u like to develop, be it minecraft mods or something. than more u develop, then merrier

As extra thing u could read this book
https://www.amazon.com/Code-Complete-Practical-Handbook-Construction/dp/0735619670 for clean code stuff and where to go next in terms of theoretical stuff learning

[abstract imp]

Thanks Guys!

[fringe sphinx]

Also: don't listen to the ytubers/etc who preach grind culture and "you must learn this": you get good by doing, and you'll stick to it if you're doing things that interest you.

[abstract imp]

Yeah, i did learn that pretty fast aha. There are quite alot of "My day in the life of a software enginneer" videos that are cool but they tend to point alot of people in different directions to what they should actually do

[fringe sphinx]

Good luck tho, and definitely hang out in #python-discussion ... you learn a lot there.

[abstract imp]

Thanks!

[hearty island]

https://fortune.com/education/business/best-online-masters-in-business-analytics/ i'm seriously thinking about online school. does anyone know if you're still allowed to go to networking events and stuff if you attend online?

[near ocean]

Sure, i imagine it would be more awkward though, never having met your classmates before

[hearty island]

i see, ok. yeah i was just wondering tbh bc these online programs are genuinely nicer than what i'd find at baruch. i've looked through baruch's course catalog and it isn't the greatest

[hearty island]

super business focused, just not very data analytics focused if that makes sense

[near ocean]

I've got some worries about online school, theyre mainly about networking

[hearty island]

yeah me too. my mom has the same worries.

[near ocean]

But if youre hustling around networking events then thats fine, youre getting around the one weakness of these courses

[hearty island]

i'll keep it in mind and see what my options are. thanks mar 🙂

[spice bone]

Can you link me to that course you took I wanna take it too

[hearty island]

i need an honest opinion on the masters programs too, i know if i talk to the advisors they'll just vouch for their own program

[abstract imp]

I belive it is either only apart of a degree or a school head start program

[abstract imp]

I can still link it tho

[spice bone]

Yes plz

[abstract imp]

https://www.unisq.edu.au/course/synopses/2022/csc1401.html

[hearty island]

no like i need a comprehensive review of the courses and how well they prep their students and i think advisors would naturally vouch for their own school

[spice bone]

Ty

[hearty island]

cuz why would an advisor badmouth their own school and honestly say yeah we don't do a good job of prepping our students

[abstract imp]

Was that meant to be towards me? Genuinly confused

[hearty island]

yeah, that's meant towards you

[abstract imp]

Could you elaborate on what you said?

[spice bone]

@hearty island turqarby has been replying to me the whole time you know😂😂

[hearty island]

i think advisors are essentially salespeople and have to upsell their program and aren't the most reliable source to rate their program in comparison to other schools

[abstract imp]

That would explain it

[hearty island]

oh i'm stupid my bad i thought they were talking to me. welp my bad lol.

[spice bone]

All good😂😂

[abstract imp]

No, you're all good 😂

[calm crescent]

hii

[novel sleet]

I've heard some places that universities have indirect field specializations, like 2 of the same schools in 2 different places, might be better at one thing/language than the other, and vice versa.
Is this true? if so, how do i find out which one i should attend?

[mint oracle]

Hii!

[slender flame]

guys need to implement Ml for an upcoming hackaton project, where should i start?

[mint oracle]

#python-discussion #data-science-and-ml

[mint oracle]

and ur question is not clear what do u need do u want to learn about ml or web?

[gritty rivet]

Probably, somewhere in the world, there is some situation like this. We know nothing about whatever specific universities and programs you're asking about.

[vapid jay]

im new to python anyone wanna wo rk with me

[gritty rivet]

This is the career channel. Try #python-discussion but the more you say about what you're actually doing or interested in doing the more likely you might get some response.

[turbid bobcat]

well, let's see how this looks like in a month or so

[fleet reef]

GitHub issues for job applications?

[hearty island]

i've probably applied to over 1200 jobs by now lol, i use stipplo

[fleet reef]

Redactions 🤨🤨

[hearty island]

.....runs away

[pine sleet]

what's the callback rate on that like

[hearty island]

i've gotten maybe 15 or 20 interviews in 2023/2024 combined

[turbid bobcat]

yes, it's a private repo, I save files in the repo, version control notes, quite good

[hearty island]

i applied to jobs very early, i started last summer

[turbid bobcat]

im taking my time, iterating the CV with each process, slowly building up to the companies that I really want

[hearty island]

https://tenor.com/view/think-about-it-reece-simpson-kayode-ewumi-roll-safe-meme-gif-17305682

yea i tailor my resume a lot

[turbid bobcat]

im still divided between 1 or 2 pages, and also the formatting of the bullet points, I think for applying to europe I can go to 2 pages, but any US tech company that happens to have an office here I should go for the 1 page

or maybe it should be proportionate to the number of applications I can estimate they receive

I reckon google receives thousands per week or per day or something like that

[fringe sphinx]

One page is always the way to go, at least in US

[turbid bobcat]

for US it seems to be a consensus, but here in europe I've seen various opinions.

im doing work XP for first page and second page projects + education + other achievements like publications, conferences and talks

[fringe sphinx]

For academics with a lot of pubs/etc, I think that’s reasonable. Like an appendix.

[turbid bobcat]

I dont have that much stuff, but it still doesnt fit in the one pager

[fringe sphinx]

But page 1 should paint the whole picture, especially since you don’t have much experience.

[turbid bobcat]

uhm

I think I'm gonna try to briefly paint my educational background in the introduction, this way the first page works in isolation, it even saves me time when I decide that 1 page is more appropriate.

but I also think that an appendix like second page is a good idea

[turbid bobcat]

but just for context here, I was told I could go over 1 page literally during the the interview

[gritty rivet]

I noticed some European countries use CVs over resumes. And here in the US where CVs are used (mainly academia) they're normally multiple pages, more than 2 at mid level.

So I'm tempted to say a resume should generally be 1 page for low to mid level and never more than 2, where CV can easily be 2 or more pages... But I'm not sure if this actually works across Europe

I guess my point is that if you're talking about a CV rather than a resume, it can help to make that explicit

[turbid bobcat]

I'll usually send a file named [my name]_CV_[company name].pdf

I can possibly try to send resume and CV, would that be appropriate ?

[gritty rivet]

Send what is requested, I guess? And if it's not explicit, find out what the norm is for that particular country.

Here in the US outside of academia, resume is default and you shouldn't send a CV. I really have no idea about Europe and it probably varies between countries.

To be clear, resumes and CVs are not interchangeable, at least not in the US.

[turbid bobcat]

I usually see a field saying "resume/cv", gonna check

[gritty rivet]

Maybe they don't care in that case... Again, I would seek country-specific advice

[smoky quest]

it's just american language vs non-american language.
Europeans use the word CV the same way Americans use the word resume in the industry

[turbid bobcat]

a lot of them are stating resume, but I've seen all three ways

ig I'll keep it to one page then

[smoky quest]

It's helpful to think from their perspective and backward. In terms of jobs, especially for new grads, they have a limited amount of time to read your presentation

[turbid bobcat]

yeah ofc makes sense, I might still do the appendix idea

letting the first page paint the full picture

[smoky quest]

I would also suggest to think about that quote from Mark Twain:

“I didn't have time to write a short letter, so I wrote a long one instead.”

I would never read an appendix and I would expect most recruiters to not read it as well.
Crafting something that communicate your value succinctly and to the point is an exercise in itself. It's worth spending the time working on it

I may have a bias due to all the resumes I have reviewed, but every resume that had more than one page coming from an entry level was either due to terrible communication skills or large ego. Don't be them

[turbid bobcat]

Im not a new grad tho

[smoky quest]

how many years of professional experience do you have?

[turbid bobcat]

2 years

[smoky quest]

meh getting close to be okay to get into 2 pages, but not yet

[turbid bobcat]

I'm iterating on it, I'm sending it out see what works what doesn't, will probly also submit it to a professional reviewer

[smoky quest]

!rule 6

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

[smoky quest]

We don't do ads or begging.
If you are short on money, you should secure food and shelter first, that means looking for any job, even if not in CS

A CS degree is the path of least resistance with the most opportunities and careers.

[gritty rivet]

Based on everything I'm seeing online it seems more likely to be the opposite (that when Europeans say "resume" they have in mind what Americans would consider a "CV").... unless.you mean that a typical European resume/CV is actually limited to one page etc.?

[smoky quest]

In some EU country, the word "resume" does not even exist.
And yes, whatever we-shall-call-it should be limited to one page for entry level developers

[turbid bobcat]

im not entry level, my prev position stated mid

[gritty rivet]

But this example could be considered a "resume" in some countries then?

In the US we would say this is clearly a CV and not a resume.
https://deni-begaj.github.io/docs/cv.pdf

[smoky quest]

Right.
A european would use the word CV for what an american would use the word "resume"

[turbid bobcat]

on reddit they're saying that you even include a photo on your cv,, in switzerland

[smoky quest]

that may or may not be outdated and highly depends on the country.
Some countries even have anonymous resumes/CV to fight racism and discrimination

[turbid bobcat]

the issue here I suppose, is that if 2 page is the norm in a certain region, I'd be shooting myself in the foot by not using them

[smoky quest]

True. However hope is not a strategy

[turbid bobcat]

sure, just saying, a google search will yield various opinions in europe, in the US, everyone seems to be very hard line about it. i'm gonna see if there's any way to find out what is appropriate for each region, maybe just scroll through the subreddits of each country

[smoky quest]

I can guarantee you it's similar in EU since they are facing the same problems 😉

(and I also have some experience there)

I will also note that plenty of engineers with 2-4 years of experience can fit their whole CV/resume in a single page. There is zero reason to not be able to do so

[turbid bobcat]

I mean, my response rate is not 0, so can't be that bad.

In the end, I just like to show my projects, love talking about them. So I want to place less relevant stuff in the second page.

[smoky quest]

That's the thing: it's not about you. It's about the company.

When companies are advertising to people, it's not about how passionate they are about their own things. It's about how relevant it is to the buyer, how useful it is to them and how much value it brings to them.
The same principles apply here.
The reviewers' time will be limited, rule of thumb being 30-45s. Going beyond means taking more risks of them missing out on things or taking the stance you have bad communication skills (not necessarily the main stance either). That's also why people recommend to tailor your resume so you can put the most relevant information to your future employer first.

[turbid bobcat]

Look, I trust that your perspective is grounded and that you are likely correct. But I will still prefer experimentation over theory. I've learned that I don't know until I try it, and I have been surprised several times now. It's not like I'm inflexible about it, I just need information to come directly from the job market.

[turbid bobcat]

Just like it happened here

[smoky quest]

ah no worries. I am happy to exchange ideas and provide suggestions but at the end of the day it's your career

[smoky quest]

I wouldn't count on it.
It's already 50/50 chances the interviewer has read your resume. And then they will hardly take 5min to read through the whole thing while you are sitting there (incl. virtually) in front of them

[turbid bobcat]

Information comes in many ways tho, sometimes there are simple changes that drastically improve response rates for ex

I can send 5 CVs and 5 resumes and see which does better

[smoky quest]

Some people like to learn the hard way 😉
But it's an interesting experiment

[hearty island]

i haven't even graduated yet, so i stick w a page

[turbid bobcat]

Well, we can agree on that one for sure. That is quite literally my learning style. What works works tho

[smoky quest]

The trick is to be smart about where to spend your energy. That could result in a lot of wasted time

Sending 5 resumes/cv is not enough to get significant results and you would have to account for the role description, company size, etc.

[turbid bobcat]

I'm sending them out as I iterate. I'm targeting a huge market (the entire EU). But I get your point ofc. Like, I'm not gonna ignore your suggestions, I'll take them into account as I go through it.

[smoky quest]

don't worry about ignoring or following what I say. That won't hurt my feelings

[turbid bobcat]

right, my point is that it's not a random experimentation, I'll mutate it in the direction of what people advise me.

[tribal glacier]

is there a job board on here? i'm looking to commission "small" projects. Thank you

[analog sun]

Hello, we do not have that here

!rule 9

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[gritty rivet]

Read channel description for links to two

But for small projects Upwork or Fiverr may be more of what you're looking for

[tribal glacier]

thx, sorry guys

[copper swift]

i love blacks

[ivory sluice]

is there anything relevant you have to say to #career-advice ?

[deft herald]

You mean the python code formatter?

Still not relevant to this channel though lol

[vapid jay]

? ❓

[gritty rivet]

Don't feed the trolls

[pure vine]

G

[vapid jay]

real

[snow imp]

black is pretty nice but try to keep black to #python-discussion or #black-formatter

[bitter heron]

I have 67.98% in Nepali grade system, will it reach 7 in romanian grading system ?

[turbid bobcat]

I'm managing to condense it to one page, this is the general format, I'm experimenting with the bullet point thing of using objective, method, result

I've asked around about it, consensus seems to be that it might not hurt to do it, but it's probably better to keep to xyz

[fringe sphinx]

Why two dates for one role? That’s confusing.

[fringe sphinx]

The bolder objective/method/result is too much: you can use the idea without putting the words / bolding them. Ie: ‘improved LLM efficiency by doing xyz, resulting in 25% fewer LLM parameters with no reduction in (measurement).

And, the language looks like GPT written bullets: keep the language simpler: “while endowing the weights with intuitive geometric interpretation’?

Finally: the bullets miss the more mundane: what ML framework did you use? What language did you write in? Etc

Ok, and a few extras; nationality - Lead with ‘No sponsorship required’ or ‘authorized to work …’ or something like that. It’s the part recruiters care about. And: co-founder for a junior candidate can sometimes diminish the role: while it’s cool to cofound something, it communicates that this thing wasn’t important or significant.

[turbid bobcat]

I haven't applied for junior roles in a while now

[turbid bobcat]

Uhm okay, I'm gonna try to see if I can condense it like that. I might try sending it out a couple times, see how it does.

[turbid bobcat]

it was me who wrote it, trying to keep it concise, under two lines

[turbid bobcat]

Gotta be that way, it's more confusing the other way around, the company is something we do part time and switch full time in between jobs.

[fringe sphinx]

It’s good stuff, just could be a single bullet

[turbid bobcat]

Like on its own ?

Or you mean a single line ?

[fringe sphinx]

I mean, each bullet could be a single sentence. Rather than broken up. The substance is great, but the objective/method/result separators strike me as out of place and unnecessary. At the least, it’s unusual.

That said, I don’t -hate- it. Just strikes me as out of place.

[turbid bobcat]

Okay, I was already on the fence about it. I'm keeping it during writing because it kinda really helps a lot.

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, to argue w myself: while it feels clunky, it does convey that you’re a structured thinker and I’d still give it a read. And it is a useful tool to distill the main points, you could now try to write as a sentence and see how it comes out.

[turbid bobcat]

My motivation was that it makes it easy to navigate. You can quickly scroll your eyes through all the results.

Ended up being the ideal crutch to write XYZ

Tbh, I'm gonna drop them, it's very distracting, which can be good if the person reading it happens to like it, but catastrophic if not, since It permeates the entire text

[fringe sphinx]

Just remember to put some details about what you used/etc. Keywords that another developer / eng mgr would recognize. Pytorch, etc.

[turbid bobcat]

I can't really give the final metric on the first bullet point since the full evaluation is not finished yet

as for someone w/ 2yoe co-founding an org, i mean, i can't really do anything about it, I co-founded it and am a major contributor, so it's fair for me to put it there

[brazen sky]

hi

[grand plover]

How do you get that rendering?

[grand plover]

?

[gritty rivet]

This is the career channel. I'm not sure what that is but maybe you're looking for a help channel? #❓｜how-to-get-help

[grand plover]

Alright

[hearty island]

interview in 9 minutes

[hearty island]

YES, NEXT ROUND PEEEEEPSS

[true harness]

in just 15 minutes? just a quick phone call?

[hearty island]

yeah it was just questions like tell me about yourself, why do you wanna work for us specifically, strengths/growth areas, what makes you a good fit for the job/best candidate

next interview will be w the hiring manager

[safe coral]

Congrats @hearty island

[hearty island]

thanks jiggly

[turbid bobcat]

are recommendation letters relevant ? for how long can I used them after theyve been written ?

and cover letters, are they useful in post-gpt4 era ?

[hearty island]

it wasn't super hard, but sometimes that's good tbh

[gritty rivet]

On both questions, it may be country specific but overall I go by what they ask for. And if they ask for those things, I have to really want the job to bother. These things can be a hard requirement sometimes but less and less frequently... At least here in the US, nobody has time for that stuff anymore except at high levels

[hearty island]

is 1 PM a good interview time

[analog sun]

Better than 1 AM

[safe coral]

Yes it is

[hearty island]

word thanks

[glossy flame]

Sorry guys just got a quick question. Has anyone here escaped desk support hell? If so, do you happen to have advice for another 9-6 boi? What would you have done different if you had to start over?

[deft herald]

What do you want to escape to?

[glossy flame]

hmm I guess to become a python developer maybe more focused on backend since I have some experience with SQL

I wouldnt also mind using python for scripting knowledge for cyber security things (got my CCNA and I guess that would be another path to go for)

[deft herald]

Cool. So tailor your resume to really highlight those skills you have. If there's not a lot of meat there, then I'd suggest focusing on levelling up in those areas. Find some projects you can build that really showcase your python and SQL capabilities

[glossy flame]

Okay will do. I will try to work on a portfolio after I have studied a bit regarding the python syntax and also algorithms which I think may be useful to know

Thanks mate

[turbid bobcat]

Seems to be a common requirement in Switzerland. I'm seeing a lot of job postings where the cover letter field is obligatory.

I've also seen a lot of recent reddit posts with people commenting that it is sort of expected that you put a picture in the resume, quite strange. I'm not gonna do it.

[vapid jay]

need help makin a game in python using string manipulation, selection, repetition, and lists and

[deft herald]

You can open a help channel. This channel is for #career-advice

Check out #❓｜how-to-get-help for more info

[gritty rivet]

I moved directly from help desk tech to backend Python developer.

Meltz's advice is good.

My main portfolio project was a pretty simple REST API built with Flask to do CRUD against a Postgres database. Not sure if that's still good enough in early 2024, but it was for me in late 2021.

I did the Nucamp Backend bootcamp. It's worth looking at the curriculum on their website. If you start to feel like you're spinning your wheels and need some extra support, maybe worth paying them.

[glossy flame]

Oh wow! And congrats btw. I will be sure to take a look at that resource but I think I am gonna focus on one as I am currently doing the CS50 intro to python. Got a lot of good exercises as well and I feel like I am learning! Thanks for the info, really appreciate it (love me some hopium)

[tall galleon]

is scripting the same as automation?

or a part?

[gritty rivet]

These are vague terms with some overlap

You can look up formal definitions for a relevant context but off the top of my head...

Automation means doing something programmatically instead of manually

Scripting means writing short programs that can work independently of any larger project

[tall galleon]

yea I can see the confusion

[austere epoch]

hi

[gritty rivet]

There's no magic trick to this, you just practice and practice.

You can get a lot of help here for specific, concrete questions.

If you need more than that and can't find it through your school, consider hiring a tutor.

[buoyant seal]

what have u already learned from programming, disciplines, concepts? what are the most complex things you coded?

[austere epoch]

Guys, I am in like in 9th and I wanna learn Python badly and create AI related stuff...

[pastel sky]

Literally the only things I can do is functions,iteration,selection,sequence

[pastel sky]

Yes I get that by doing questions and I am willing to do 30 mins of Python everyday but I don’t have the knowledge to answer the questions so that’s why I was asking if there is any resources on where I can learn Python so I can improve and gain skills

[gritty rivet]

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[buoyant seal]

okay, so no classes yet. nearly in the 1s year of university, 1st semester level.
https://www.amazon.com/Head-First-Python-Brain-Friendly-Guide/dp/1492051292
I recommend then head first python 3d edition. Complete all exercises, u are in dire need of extra practice + covering basic syntax stuff
that will be a good start

after that optionally nice to go completing challenges over there
https://codingchallenges.fyi/challenges/intro
https://nedbatchelder.com/text/kindling.html

[soft meteor]

Has anyone here gone through a computer science degree? I’m curious how deep I need to understand the math and Data Structures and Algorithms aspect

[fringe sphinx]

"How deep" is like: "how high is up". Not sure how to answer that stuff.

Are you a senior / going into CS next year?

(just trying to calibrate the response)

[near ocean]

Deep enough to pass the classes and no more really
Unless youre into that sort of thing 🤨

[buoyant seal]

i entered CS for programming, and i discovered i don't like math. (as much as i liked it during school)
I managed to go through it without really... understanding math 😅
i shined only in programming related subjects

As i discovered at least in our university = u can pass almost anything if u are sneaky enough
learning something is your own choice
some math subjects i had to learn with some effort to pass... but still i managed to do it as long as i was not ostrich hiding head in a sand

Same true for people who liked maths and not so much programming.
They managed to graduate as well.
around 1/3 (or 1/2) of a class did not survive to graduation though (they were putting usually around zero of effort or relied 100% for sneakiness only)

TLDR: i was forced to learn math only for strict professors who are very hard to sneak around

[smoky quest]

Luck is not a strategy though.
Skimping on something now means you may hit a wall later

[buoyant seal]

it is not just Luck you know.
In some cases you have partners to share different laboratory works to complete with.
U can try and.. make sure stuff u don't like will be done by others.
You can find information in advance, how exams are passed for certain professors / their attitude, and put an effort equal to professor strictness
you can find materials of students from previous years and use them to prepare yourself for easy completing work.
u just need to make some.. preparations

[fringe sphinx]

"Chance favors only the prepared mind" - Louis Pasteur

[smoky quest]

So you let someone do the stuff you don't like. Until you fail an exam or to learn another topic that relied on that learning later on.
Or that you can't apply to jobs that rely on that skill because you didn't want to learn it

[smoky quest]

correlation vs causation

[buoyant seal]

learning what u like and ready for is more efficient. 5x times multiplier to learning speed at minimum 🙂 (and significantly longer remembering)

at some point trying to learn what u don't like is almost useless effort = u will forget too quickly it

[near ocean]

Learning what you like doesnt go down well with the real world
Exams arent going to quiz what you like

[buoyant seal]

as a student you can tough up, quickly learn it, pass exam, and forget about it a few months/a year later. (or even a week after exams hehe if everything was stored in quick memory)
exams are exams, u need to like subject and put continous effort in order to remember in your life after exams

[hearty island]

mar do you know Schroders Capital by any chance

[smoky quest]

Only knowing what you like and being able to do what you like isn't that efficient as:

• You don't know what you don't know. You may like something if you go beyond the initial stages
• You don't know how it could be relevant down the line or not
• Things are taught for a reason and relying on the instinct of a young, unskilled and inexperience young adult would not be the smartest move to prepare for the next 40 years of a career
• What you like at 18 is very different from what you like at 30

[near ocean]

I've heard of them, im sure i've applied to them too

[hearty island]

i think i just spoke to one of their recruiters just as i was going to bed 💀, he called me from the UK

[near ocean]

They were a client at my last workplace
Always slow af

[hearty island]

they sound interesting, i just don't know aladdin tho

[near ocean]

Theyre asset managers, idk if that qualifies as interesting

[hearty island]

the position is $80K -> $95K

it could be a good transition if i ever wanna work in finance?

[near ocean]

Yea definitely

[fringe sphinx]

Also, make sure you're clear on whether thats USD and UK

[hearty island]

the only bad thing is they asked if i could start immediately and i had to say no bc i graduate in May

[hearty island]

it's in $ for sure, i just looked up the role off their website

[eager sluice]

learning what you dislike (and being able to do it) is a key skill in the workplace. If you're the guy that refuses to write any documentation since you dislike doing it, you aren't going to get very far.

[fringe sphinx]

Sadly, unfortunately those people sometimes go far :/

[near ocean]

Time to grind

[buoyant seal]

mm... we are speaking about different amount of effort and different level of like/dislike.
writing documentation can be managed by any willing/unwiling person (eventually)

while higher math... is at entirely different level to like or dislike. (and amount of necessary effort to learn)

[eager sluice]

well, the docs example wasn't very good since I'm one of those people :/

but the inverse counts; being able to do those helps significantly

[hearty island]

but i already have an internship

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I agree, I just aws laughing about the doc part 🙂

[near ocean]

Grind harder lmao
Earn that paycheck

Also if they want you right now theyre definitely gonna throw you in the deep end

[hearty island]

i'm about to die fr fr

i have no background in finance tho???