career-advice

[near ocean]

Ok well in case youre seriously asking, no, dont put this on your cv

[violet magnet]

aw man

what about classics like

[vapid skiff]

.

[elder mica]

https://media.licdn.com/dms/image/D5622AQFR5oWq2_Hdnw/feedshare-shrink_1280/0/1702322127734?e=1705536000&v=beta&t=5dAa4nNJ0JlHESIoQ28Gwk4xf0xIvuCwmbwjhgfjiTo

[balmy spade]

I cannot think of a time in my career(s) that I have thought; You know what I want? I want a meeting right now.

[pine sleet]

average new grad

or new intern. I bet the feeling wears off quick, though

[true harness]

i mean, sometimes things come up and you need a meeting with someone

[turbid bobcat]

I've been in 3 since the start

[fringe sphinx]

This is painfully true. In my early 20's, I was offended when I wasn't invited to the meeting.

[elder mica]

the best meeting is with myself, i close my eyes, sit in a pose and try to let go of all my thoughts 💭

[fringe sphinx]

Ever try mindfulness/meditation? Highly recommend during the workday

[elder mica]

yes i actually do that

[regal axle]

I have one client who I desperatly want meetings with. Because every time we have a meeting with them, they tell us all the things they want to happen // the next batch of work handoff. In other words, when we have meetings with them, we get paid big money. That being said, some of the people in those meetings are very brain dead. So much so ... they have been "transferred to other projects." Lol

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, that’s my world too. I put customer meetings in a whole nother category. I love client meetings.

[turbid bobcat]

I think meetings are necessary, but a good percentage of them don't feel very useful to me.

Like, if you get me in a meeting over something that could've been a total of three text messages between us, I'll feel like we just lost a lot of time.

[regal axle]

Oh yea 100%. I was kinda being facetious. Like BillyBobby said, "whole nother category." Meetings that directly result in money are nice (even if they could still be solved with a simple text message.) You are more willing to put up with more garbage

[true harness]

many things could be emails 😔

[shy sigil]

Does it make sense only to show a company a personal project that has something to do with the respective field/role you're applying for, or would general projects tell them something too. For example, extremely old projects could indicate having been programming for a very long time, not sure if they care about that though.

[ionic agate]

Hello everyone

[proven crest]

What do you mean by show a company projects? If you mean during an interview, if you can give a brief summary of all your projects including older ones in under a minute do that, but only take a deeper delve into the more impressive and relevant ones. If you mean include them on a portfolio or CV, if you can include them concisely they wouldn’t subtract. That being said I wouldn’t include a timer or a todo list you made years ago if you have vastly better projects.

[brave matrix]

Should I put this in my resume?

As a self-taught programmer with 3+ years of experience, I possess a deep passion for building and optimizing software solutions. I thrive on tackling complex challenges and find immense satisfaction in developing innovative solutions with efficiency and optimization in mind. My problem-solving skills, coupled with my ability to learn quickly and adapt to new technologies, allow me to consistently deliver high-quality results. I believe that there is a solution for every challenge, and I'm eager to partner with you to bring your vision to life.

[modest summit]

Yes it is nice paragraph, bit generic in my opinion but it doesn't hurt to put it

[white relic]

No. A résumé isn't an essay

if you want to have a summary/objective sentence, that's fine but it should be one sentence.

[near ocean]

If youre gonna have an "objective statement" in your cv it should be a single line
Oops 2slow

[white relic]

I'm not really seeing objective statements in résumés much. Most people decide to forgo it

[near ocean]

I have one and it says 2 things, one that i dont need a visa sponsorship and two what kind of roles im looking for
If i didnt have the visa thing i'd get rid of the whole thing

[white relic]

A cover letter would be the place where you can elaborate on who you are and what your goals are, but (if you write a cover letter, which also is optional) you want to make it specific to the position being applied to

[brave matrix]

I agree that its a bit long and even cliche, but you cant really describe who you are in just a sentence

[brave matrix]

hows this?

My name is Shner, I’m a self-taught programmer with a can-do attitude, I really believe that there is a solution for every problem, and I want to be the one to help you find it.
I like to be given clear but challenging goals (like the Wikipedia project below) and find the optimal way to solve them.
I've completed nearly 70 projects across open-source, personal, work, and freelancing domains. Proficient in Python and actively learning Rust, I eagerly embrace new technologies, particularly programming languages.

[white relic]

that's why you have the education, experience, projects and other achievements on there.

A typical recruiter is going to spend, what is it? 30 seconds reading your resume? It's not the place for long form prose descriptions of yourself.

[brave matrix]

so you would keep just the first sentence of that paragraph?

or what would you put, like can you give me an example?

[white relic]

First thought, maybe combine the first and the last sentence. "I am a self-taught programmer with a passion for learning new technologies and a can-do attitude."

[brave matrix]

oh I like that

[white relic]

the objective statement is usually the first thing on there so it's kind of like the lens the reader will use to interpret the rest of it. That says "I make up for my lack of academic credentials with enthusiasm and willingness to learn." Which is a good thing for a recruiter to understand about you when they are looking at the rest of the page

An engineer with 15 years experience might want to emphasize their area of specialization or cast themselves as a generalist. Either way it's kind of a quick hint to the reader.

[brave matrix]

ok please give me feedback

or:

My name is Shner, I’m a self-taught programmer with a can-do attitude, I really believe that there is a solution for every problem, and I want to be the one to help you find it.

[shy sigil]

Right, what I was asking was more if I had a vastly better project but it didnt have anything to do with the role I'm applying for, for example if I'm applying for a role in web development and I've made a really good CLI tool hypothetically.
There would be web projects included as well, but my CLI ones may outweigh them in quality.

[proven crest]

If it’s just on your portfolio or CV variety is good! Definitely show relevant projects, but if you have strong projects that aren’t in that domain, display those too. If you’re in an interview for a web development role I wouldn’t spend a long time going through a CLI project

[shy sigil]

Alright cool, thanks! If you dont mind me asking, what is your work experience

[proven crest]

I've been working as a junior developer for the past year. Before that sales

[shy sigil]

Oh cool

To clarify one last thing, the projects would have to be professional to the full extent of that word, right? CLI could be so, but I also indulge in making a lot of games from scratch, and have worked in multiple/most teams making games for a competitions/game jams. Would those have a negative effect on the CV? Some of my games might be on the sillier end. Not anything outright goofy, just maybe not completely professional.
Right now, the list(for competition games) goes like: https://blankriot96.itch.io/

[proven crest]

would have to be professional to the full extent of that word
Thats up to you. If you mean professional as in silly, thats fine as long as its not offensive. If you mean in terms of coding, that could have an impact. If your code is messy or badly written that could absolutely have a negitive impact.

[shy sigil]

I see. Do they ever actually look into that, especially when it's not the main focus, since the web projects would be?

[proven crest]

Of course they do, you're applying for a development job, they'll want to see examples of what you developed and question you on it

[shy sigil]

Thanks 😄
That helps me shape my steps a bit better.

[proven crest]

Sorry reread your question, they may or may not. If your main focus is web development and you have web development projects, they'll most likely delve into those

[shy sigil]

Ah, well re-shaping again I guess haha. But that's good, sometimes impressive things take some unconventional measures haha.

[white relic]

Definitely include projects if you did them, are proud of them and they demonstrate the skills you want to advertise. A game is not inherently less "professional" than a boring program like a contact manager or w/e. If you were a senior software engineer with decades of experience making AAA games, would a recruiter look at your résumé and say "wow, they have all this relevant experience, but it's not serious enough"?

engineers who design rollercoasters get paid just like those who design office buildings

(bad example, since the rollercoaster guy probably is rarer and gets paid more for his expertise)

[hearty island]

@white relic l3harris interview today :))

[white relic]

Oh right! Good luck! I hope it goes well 🤞

[hearty island]

thanks man. i appreciate all your support

[white relic]

It strikes me as well organized, maybe a little wordy, but I have to get ready for work now, I'll try to remember to come back to this. (also maybe others would like to chip in)

[brazen island]

Often times the people reading CVs aren't the most technical people and right now you're not appealing to that group of people. You're exclusively appealing to fellow developers / people in the know.

[oak reef]

Hi, I wanna do a Master's degree, Which universities are good for it?

[gritty rivet]

You might need to be more specific about what you're looking for but there are lists of top programs like this: https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/computer-science-rankings

[hearty island]

yikes, the uhg recruiter still hasn't reached out to me. idk what's going on 😦

[oak reef]

Yeah, there're a tons of Master's, ok thanks, I'll look for the best for me, and do you know about some specialization programs?

[hearty island]

more than likely i didn't get selected, smh

[gritty rivet]

If you have an interest in any particular specialization that is something you can look into but if you have any doubt it's probably best to keep it general

[oak reef]

yeah, now I'm interested in multiple things, In general I wanna improve my knowledge in develop software, improve software quality, database modeling and architectures

[turbid bobcat]

In coding interviews, are dynamic programming problems rare ?

[smoky quest]

I would expect to hit some

[turbid bobcat]

But would it be in your top 5 most frequent ?

I'm struggling quite a lot on hard DP problems

[near ocean]

Are you asking about DP problems in general or hard DP problems specifically

[turbid bobcat]

Uhm, both in general and the hard ones.

[hearty island]

smh that interview was so mid

[near ocean]

What level roles are you interviewing for?
I wouldnt exactly expect hard leetcode stuff for junior roles but you should still practice them

[hearty island]

they were asking me about timekeeping software for like payments and i was completely out of my depth

😦

[turbid bobcat]

I'm going for mid.

I've been considered for a senior role, but I figure it was an exception.

[smoky quest]

If you aim for lower jobs with lower skills, you should expect less of them as the bar will be lower.
But you would also miss on a lot of cool opportunities.

So my advice to you is not to avoid DP but to embrace it.
Read a book about DSA like "introduction to algorithms" and practice. It will make you a better engineer anyway

[turbid bobcat]

Okay then. I think I'm gonna do a sort of review and see if I find other gaps that need filling.

[smoky quest]

It's not that difficult once you get the hang of it and understand how it works.
What makes it difficult is if you only do the exercises without understanding DP

[turbid bobcat]

I think I have a good basic understanding of it, but I'll quizz myself on it just to be sure. I feel like it's just that the hard problems always have this weird perspective shift, and for some reason I'm never able to quite get to it.

[near ocean]

Obligatory "try out AoC"
Tis the season

[hearty island]

the interviewers were mainly talking about HR payroll platforms

what the hell does that have to do with an IT business analyst role? that’s not even tangentially related???

crying in da club rn

[turbid bobcat]

Sure, I'll go for it. Probably good to get out of the leetcode only problems.

[fringe sphinx]

AOC has had a few DP problems, especially yesterdays

[turbid bobcat]

Every interview is practice, is good you getting them

[fringe sphinx]

But the best thing about AOC was that the problems were under specified, so it was a good lesson in debugging and thinking

[hearty island]

it was terrible, i feel dead inside

[fringe sphinx]

Why not? Payroll systems are managed by IT? Big companies will have dedicated teams for HR systems.

[hearty island]

idk what’s gonna happen, i did my best 🫠

[hearty island]

i thought it was strange they couldn’t string more than a couple questions together regarding my resume

it was “what do you want to do in the future?“ and “how good is your sql?”

that’s all they asked 😦

i’m not sure if that’s a good sign or a bad one

[fringe sphinx]

What would’ve been a good question?

[hearty island]

idk man i was expecting like 5 or 6 questions, not 2 and the rest of them just me thinking of things to ask

they didn’t even ask a tell me about yourself, but that’s probably bc i already passed the first round?

[smoky quest]

You already learned something about payroll systems then

[hearty island]

why not ask me more questions smh, did they just decide to take it easy on me or something?

[smoky quest]

It could be an example problem to see how you think about them

[hearty island]

well i asked 6 or maybe 7 questions back

[hearty island]

wdym?

[turbid bobcat]

You may be overthinking it tho.

[hearty island]

maybe the interview was the friends i made along the way 😭

[smoky quest]

questions about hypothetical on how you would deal with it. Could have been an accounting topic, a plane company or what not

[hearty island]

but they didn’t ask anything i mean nothing at all besides those two original questions

[white relic]

that does seem rather odd

[hearty island]

it was all very strange

[hearty island]

they said the last interviewer said good things about me though at the start of the interview

[smoky quest]

I know nothing of what happened other than they discussed about hr payroll systems. I don't even know if that was questions or them rambling or them getting stuck there

[hearty island]

they asked me how good i am at ServiceNow too

[white relic]

well, did you learn anything about the company?

[smoky quest]

Servicenow has nothing to do with hr payroll systems

[hearty island]

i know it has nothing to do with it, they asked it anyways bc they saw it on my resume

[smoky quest]

then my hunch is something got lost in translation between what they wanted out of you and how you interpreted that

[hearty island]

so that means i probably didn’t get the role :((((

[hearty island]

they’re migrating to SAP payroll systems… that’s kinda the main thing i learned

[white relic]

well
sometimes all you can do is shrug and say "whatever"

[hearty island]

idk the last time i had an interview like this i would say was at centene, and i ended up getting accepted

like a very casual interview not a lot of questions from them or anything

but that was an internship… this is a full time job

[white relic]

yeah I'm just saying, it's not like it was a bad interview because you were unprepared in some way, so there's not (from what you have said) anything to learn from it

(maybe there are things to learn from it, it's up to you to figure that out)

[hearty island]

if i get the role idk if i wanna take it

that’s up to me tbh

[white relic]

some interviews are bad because you bombed them. some interviews are just bad because there was bad internal communication or whatever, just have to move on

[hearty island]

it’s so weird though, why did the other interview not mention anything about payroll platforms? i would’ve studied up on them or figured something out

[limpid gale]

hi pythons

[white relic]

it does sound like you would want to ask some more follow-up questions if they remain interested after this

[hearty island]

i agree

welp onto the next one 😭

[brave matrix]

what should be appealing to the non-techincal people, i.e. HR, just the introduction right?

with the projects there isnt much I can do, other than use cliche words like "Machine learning" or "big data" or whathever

and its not like I do front-end either, that I actually have smth to show ...

[brazen island]

I think each block can have a part that explains what/why you did and how you did it in equal lengths. Currently there's no why for the first 2, if you're not covered under an extra strict NDA I'd add some of it and remove some technical redundancies like the fact you're using FastAPI

[vapid jay]

Hey i currently live in ireland, i was thinking about studying computer science in college in the USA because i want to live there in the future. does that sound like good plan?

[fringe sphinx]

From a job/moving perspective: a student visa allows you to work for several years post graduation (google OPT), which can be the easiest way to get work authorization in the states.

[vapid jay]

Would it be easier to find a job with a US degree or Irish degree, or would it be the same because getting a degree in ireland is much cheaper

[fringe sphinx]

It’s not just about the degree, visa:work authorization is something to consider.

But regardless of that: it’s certainly easier to get a job in the same country that you currently reside: you can show up to interviews, you can get internships and meet people, etc. lots of things to consider.

[true harness]

for most people, the cost of studying in the US is not worth it

[sage cliff]

Ok where you put 'Self taught programmer, really sell it. Try 'Hi! My name is Shner I utilized autodidacticism to gain proficiency in multiple programming languages. I am passionate about utilizing innovative solutions, self-motivated, goal orientated, and a team player. ' Its probably too much corporate jargon - but it means the same as you stated above -

[vapid jay]

ah i see

[brave matrix]

bruh thats way too much corporate bs

you lost me at "team player" lmao

[vapid jay]

hello

[fringe sphinx]

I don’t have an opinion on this part: the folks I’ve hired tended to be from Eastern European countries where local job prospects where zero… a us degree was necessary and something they were privileged to afford

[vapid jay]

i made a game of a snake in scratch

[vapid jay]

what would you recommend

[sage cliff]

sounds like red flags though - I've gotten a few jobs that the interview was basically me asking the questions - turns out no one knew what the last guy did: it was great

[brave matrix]

I suppose I can add the motivation and purpose for each project, like I did for wikipedia. but I dont want to put too much text in the resume, before it was way more and I cut it down alot

[brazen island]

I think you can reduce some technical details even more to make way for these. All in all I think your CV is fine and definitely on the right path! 😄

[vapid jay]

how would student loans work out, like would it be possible to get from the us?

[fringe sphinx]

I def don’t know anything about that.

[brave matrix]

I aprecciate your feedback, thank you! I worked really hard on it and will continue to improve it
(I hope you cant tell but I used some chatgpt to improve the overall grammar)

[true harness]

yes, but getting in is very difficult. the competition is very very stiff. some schools offer needs-based aid, which will help if you can't afford school directly

[brazen island]

Personally I couldn't tell

[fringe sphinx]

Just wanted to echo what zestar said: I also looked and didn’t have any feedback other than what you were given. It looks good, and sure there’s some fine tuning, but it’s a good resume.

[vapid jay]

Yay i did a game in scratch.

[vapid jay]

i see

[brave matrix]

thanks, I aprecciate it

[upbeat cargo]

Is it reasonable to get a professional programming job without a computer sci degree? In university I want to do physics/astrophysics but I would like to be a programmer but I’m not really sure if they’re really compatible

The physics course has a reasonably large coding section in it and I remember being told that becoming a software engineer was quite a common path after that

[true harness]

if you want to be a programmer, why do you want to do physics? it might be a better idea to major in CS and minor in physics if you want

[upbeat cargo]

Passion since I was young

Honestly I don’t really mind if I don’t end up becoming a programmer but I think it would be fun (ish)

I did see “or relevant experience” on quite a few jobs when I was looking a couple weeks ago

[true harness]

the issue is it will be difficult to get any relevant experience to begin with

[upbeat cargo]

I guess so but I did see that quite a few astrophysics jobs are somewhat involved with programming

[turbid bobcat]

Yeah I've done it. Wasn't too hard.

The trick is doing interesting projects.

[upbeat cargo]

Like what

[turbid bobcat]

I've done a general purpose particle simulator for example.

A ray tracer.

Etc.

[upbeat cargo]

Oh

[true harness]

you may be exceptional but this is not the usual outcome. a physics degree is better than no degree, but a CS degree will be better for swe jobs

[upbeat cargo]

Yeah I guess

[turbid bobcat]

Ah I'm not arguing that physics is better for CS job. Not at all. Just saying it is not impossible at all.

I know at least one more person who did this transition, she did an MSc in bioinformatics, started in biology.

[sand hawk]

@upbeat cargo that's only one opinion (the world is vast), if you have enough brain power to do college physics, you can most probably do programming. the issue here is what programming means: some scientist hack python code vaguely to get some results, that's somehow programming. there's only 10-20% of things in CS that are very dense and not included in a scientific diploma, and even then, it's often discrete math in disguise. There will be a few missing gaps in larger programs, because they become their own problem, how to structure code to avoid creating monstruosities, which 90% of beginners will create. But again nothing you can't learn too

[upbeat cargo]

I know some of it I guess, I’ve done computer science in GCSE and A-Level for 4 years now

There will definitely be big gaps though yeah

[gritty rivet]

The best student loans will not be available to you, are only for citizens/perm residents

One option is to do most of your courses somewhere cheaper and transferring here to the US for the last year or two

Graduate school is often much more affordable. If you come as a PhD student you can often get a teaching or research assistantahip and not pay any tuition at all

[halcyon helm]

I ama student currently studying Aerospace Engineering.
I wanted to ask you, do you think coding is slowly becoming one of the most prominent skill even in our field ?
I mean suppose I take up a Masters thesis topic, say exhaust nozzle shape optimization to increase the cooling efficiency of my engine or something like that.
As we know all research topics phDs are all about trying to optimize one thing or other.
Nowadays with the huge rise of artificial intelligence, don't you think that whatever we do in our Phds or Master Thesis can be done 10 times better by a computer engineer who just goes the first month through all the related literature and then create a good enough Machine Learning programme and run it through enough generations to find a pattern and voila we have optimized everything.

[balmy spade]

Do I think that tools will continue to give engineers the ability to push the envelope? Yes, absolutely. As it has been, so it will continue to be. Is it some sort of short cut? No. You still need to understand the field in order to utilize an optimization.

[violet magnet]

I also feel like you're over estimating the precision of AI. It doesn't do things ten times better. It does whatever it does with 100 times less effort lol.

There is a difference

[turbid bobcat]

The good stuff also tends to be very expensive to run. GPT4 API looks cheap, til you start making full use of the context window. I still haven't gotten around to play with the open source LLMs tho.

[violet magnet]

yeah I wanted to try it last summer and then realized my office is already an inferno and i wasnt going to make it any worse.

[turbid bobcat]

I created a simple discord bot to try it out in a private discord server. Had to discontinue the experiment because the bill was gonna grow very quickly.

[peak halo]

You need a thicc GPU to be able to run them, and that prices a lot of people out of being able to use them.

[turbid bobcat]

You mean the open source ones ?

[peak halo]

Yes

Like the 70 billion parameter version of llama2

[turbid bobcat]

So you can't run it in a laptop or a gaming PC

[peak halo]

No

[smoky quest]

you can run the smaller ones

[violet magnet]

Oh damn I was gonna try it on a 1060 haha

I knew that it would make my computer run like a jet engine and the room would feel like an oven... but I thought it would work.

[smoky quest]

https://github.com/jmorganca/ollama#model-library

[peak halo]

You're not my coworker who left the Christmas party early to go buy a 1060, are you?

[violet magnet]

nah ive had this once since 2016 or something

crazy that a 1060 is still a relevant card.

It's far from the best but can still do a lot more than many people will ever use it for

[peak halo]

Idk why that coworker even wanted it

[violet magnet]

shrug, I imagine a lot of people don't enjoy having to pay for enthusiast-grade GPUs that they know they will only use 5% of its power.

[peak halo]

This was the Christmas party for the AI division of my company. So the default assumption is he wanted to use it for ML

[pine sleet]

well, did he?

[peak halo]

Idk. This happened a few hours ago

[snow stag]

hi

[brazen island]

You can run them with 4 bits / weight instead of the usual 16 or 32 which results in a massive memory save. Estimate is ~ 1GB vram per 1b parameters.

[slender kestrel]

Hi, im new on python and i was wondering if i could make a game for probably robox or others game platforms on python?

[ocean dove]

Roblox is luau (arguably easier than python) - to make games on python you could use the pygame library.

[slender kestrel]

Oh didnt know there was a different code platform for that but you can make games on python and can you also make websites?

[ocean dove]

You can make websites but it isn’t really built for it - pygame is used to make games, although mostly 2d

you can make a 3d engine in it, but you probably wouldn’t be able to use that to make an entire game

pygame is really cool and I’d really recommend playing about with it

[fallen igloo]

heyy
I'm tryna get into ML
I've learnt python basics
but now idk if i should first start off with the data science and algo part of ml or should i directly start off learning frameworks like pytorch or tensorflow

[slender kestrel]

ait thx for the information

[ocean dove]

no worries

[slender kestrel]

can i learn everything about python on yt vids or do i need to study these on school

bc im now on secundary so 1 year i need to do and then i can study higher

[white relic]

"Everything about Python" is a lot. What do you want to be able to do with Python?

You can learn some from YouTube videos but personally I wouldn't recommend it as your only source

Idk maybe I'm just old

[hidden bloom]

This is a year long internship (placement year – in uk unis between 2nd and final year), I have two offers (first full time role within industry so I want to pick wisely... cus this starts off my career essentially) –

is essentially IT support for Oracle ERP business (end to end) applications, design power platform solutions(power bi, sharepoint etc.), and develop Oracle SQL queries, escalate issues, project management, review test plans methodologies.

Title: ‘integrations manager’, I have requested a physical job description they have yet to give me one but they essentially said I would be working on an IS system doing essentially kubernates and stuff. (I will let you know what the job description is once I get it... the lack of one is definitely a red flag but when I went in person I really enjoyed the company / manager etc)

Realistically I am leaning towards the second, though both are not development roles, integrations / devops seems way better than getting stuck as IT support ? The thing is the first company’s (IT support role) pay is higher 23,700 pounds, and the second companies pay is 19,500k. Another reason this is probably the case is because the IT support role is onsite 4 days in an isolated small town, and the second role is hybrid / remote (can go into office whenever) - so way more flexibility.

But leaving money aside I am more considered as to what work I will be doing, because what I learn here could set me up for potentially a better or worse graduate role etc. And realistically speaking – doesn’t integrations lead to more money in the longrun though this role pays so little now currently?

IT support (help desk ) stuff is not what I want to get stuck doing in the longrun..

[slender kestrel]

ig coding for websites and games

[wise beacon]

python good for web servers

and games, ai, automation

it has amazing selection of modules and support for everything

that's the reason i will always choose python over javascript when it comes to server development

[dense mesa]

Second if you want to do software engineering imo

Oracle is gonna be able to offer competitive rates but don't risk "starting off" your career in IT support. A year in industry doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of things, but can make grad applications trickier

[violet magnet]

Do you think if I use a template like this, that this will benefit me because the person reading it has seen this template before, or do you think it will make it easier to compare me to better candidatess if I dont have a unique resume layout?

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UBMuHp6cDVfdP508xP7H9wgLc4VMj6KfyjhAWB9k4OY/edit?ref=blog.pragmaticengineer.com&pli=1

Or is comparing me to better candidates just not avoidable and i should not over think it

[gritty rivet]

This resume format looks fine if you get rid of the colored text. It's boring and that's good. I'm not a fan of creative resume layouts when you're not applying for a job in graphic design

[violet magnet]

right

[true harness]

color in the headers seems fine tbh

[violet magnet]

So, lets say I have a mountain of projects that if you took the time to look at all of them, you'd realize I could do a lot of things, but many of them are unrelated or very hobbyist-centered. For example if Im applying for a fullstack position that asks for django and react experience, at the botttom after talking about my django and react projects, should I also talk about my command line scraper and its robust options, or is that noise?

[fringe sphinx]

I’d find a command line scraper an interesting project for a backend role (candidate)

[violet magnet]

What I'll probably do is make a specific github account for applying and have very limited but good repos on display, and if someone wants to look at them theyy can, but i wont necessarily waste their time talking about something unrelated.

I see.

[fringe sphinx]

The three purposes of a project: learning, demonstrating (on your resume), and giving the interviewer something to talk to you about. Most people think about the second, and forget about the first.. and third

[violet magnet]

right

So you're saying that I shouldn't be afraid to have a line about even the most random projects if i think theyy are well done and demonstrate skill

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, and importantly; when asked, you can give a well reasoned explanation of the project and talk about the technical challenges and arch

[violet magnet]

So lets narrow it down to what is safe to omit. Lets say I have a project that I learned a lot about what not to do lol, or... I started it, it demonstrates skillss, but I didn't follow through on that project because I became bored of it. Certainly those are good omits?

the template says "Projects are worth mentioning when they are standout, and when they add to your resume"

[white relic]

That sounds like at least 90% of all projects

[violet magnet]

haha yeah, so if you have a mountain of good projects, you invariably have a bigger mountain of trash projects, or things that you used for one use case and then never went anywhere with. For example I mentioned my very robust command line scraper. Before that I had another scraper that demonstrates different skills. But after I got basic functionality, instead of doing robust command line options, I started working on a GUI that I got bored with and abandoned. At first glance it looks like... "Oh, it's a GUI program that doesn't work/didn't get finished", but underneath... it works and demonstrates using Selenium which my other scraper doesn't need.

To me, it seems like not talking about such a project is better.

Only show the ones that are polished and well documented etc

[white relic]

To first order, 0% of people reading your resume are going to actually click on your GitHub and review your projects by reading the code.

As an interviewer, I'm going to read what you say about your projects and use that as a springboard to ask you about their design, how you dealt with problems, what you learned, whatever comes up

[hidden bloom]

but its oracle erp? its business to business applications (it support), its not like im developing the application its already deployed etc. im not even maintaining it? i dont get how being it support is better than kubernetes (integration) stuff? like at least with swe --> dev ops (knowing kubernetes / integrations) stuff could be useful. wheras oracle ERP - is useless, it pigenholes u (tho the salary is nicer)

[white relic]

I have gone to read code before but it's definitely not something I do all the time. Nobody likes doing code review and doing code review for every interview candidate would take a lot of time. And HR recruiters aren't going to be reviewing your code either

That definitely doesn't mean you should lie about it, but if you have a project that works but is kind of ugly, or Works partially but is incomplete, or whatever, but it demonstrates skills that you want advertise, or is a fun project that you want the interviewer to ask about because you can talk about what you learned doing it, you should put it on there

[violet magnet]

So I should start to look at the project section as a spring board for conversations more than expecting people are going to pull it down and look at it? I definitely wouldn't lie about it. I can't imagine the anxietty of having to fake experience you dont have. lol

[white relic]

And when they ask, you should tell them. I started this project and I made some bad initial design decisions and I ran into problems with the confabulator. I couldn't complete this part of the project because the architecture didn't work for what I wanted. If I were doing it again, I would design it differently. And explain what you would do differently because that shows what you learned

That's a great thing to talk about in an interview

[violet magnet]

yeah I could definitely say that about many of my projects. In fact in many cases one bad project leads into a better project. So it seems reasonable to just talk about the good one, but if you only saw the good one, you migh not understand how much i had to learn before i went that direction

[hidden bloom]

isn't kubernetes more useful / applicable skill than knowing IT support for oracle ERP/power solutions which is essentially useless and pigeon holes you?
like at least with swe --> dev ops (knowing kubernetes / integrations) stuff could be useful?

its also testing like HTTP postman stuff

[gritty rivet]

Fewer and better projects are generally better then lots of mediocre ones, especially if the ones you are cutting out overlap in terms of skills demonstrated. You can also target different resumes with different focus to emphasize projects relevant to any given role

Your resume and GitHub need not be identical, GitHub can have more

[violet magnet]

right

That makes the most sense to me.

[oak reef]

does anyone know of a course to go deeper into python?

[violet magnet]

What do you think about the making of a new github account specifically for applying for jobs? On one hand, using one of my other github accounts will make it obvious that i program all the time, but it will also make it obvious that for the majority of my programming life i was not thinking about it as a career but its just what I do for fun.

I dont want someone to look at it and immediately peg me as "just a kid"

[fringe sphinx]

Deeper than what?

[fringe sphinx]

Don’t worry so much about this, it’s ok to be an entry level candidate. A separate GitHub is Ok, but not necessary, unless you have some questionable stuff on your main. And make sure your social media presence is professional.

[oak reef]

like a advance course

[true harness]

it doesn't really matter tbh. i considered it when i started applying, but i just thought it would be too annoying. just put a few good projects in the pins and that's probably fine

[fringe sphinx]

The best ‘courses’ that deep dive into Python are conference tutorials, imo. See PyCon and Europython on YouTube.

[digital fjord]

The second edition of fluent python I have also seen praised.

[hearty island]

i was about to say, i've heard good things about fluent python

[violet magnet]

So that's another thing. I don't have a social media presence. I dont have linkedin or twittter or any stuff like that which makes me feel very un-networked. The only thing is, if someone looks into one of my bigger projects, it will lead them (if they decide to dig) to my neocities page, which does have some unprofessional content. I started sanitizing it last night. It kinda sucks that I can't have fun with my neocities page since that's what its supposed to be for, because my biggest project is very connected to neocities and my identity in that community is well known. It's not necessarily a bad identity, if anything Im known as the person who will help fix your page. But I feel like on my own page, I have to take things down if im going to be applying for jobs.

[peak halo]

Fluent Python is the greatest tome of all Python

[fringe sphinx]

Should probably do a LinkedIn. Not super important but it’s the norm nowadays.

[idle pilot]

hello

i want to start python but is a problem,can i use it as a freelancer and make a lot of money?Because some people toldme that u cannot be an freelancer that earns a lot with python

[violet magnet]

So that's another big concern I have. For the past 5 years, programming has been for fun. I dont know anyone irl that is a programmer, if I make a linkedin which everyone tells me to do and there is no one on it, what value does that give my resume?

There are exactly two places I could potentially ask people to network with my on linkedin. Here and there is also a white hat hacker collective im involved weakly but I could ask those people to network with me..

[oak reef]

Thanks @fringe sphinx @digital fjord

[true harness]

i don't think people are going to care if you don't have many connections on linkedin tbh

[violet magnet]

ok

One of the projects I have on this github is a Twitter bot that generates absurd conspiracies and spams them. I had the thing live for maybe two weeks before I took it down and started feeling uncomfortable with people not being able to tell its a joke. This is probably the most questionable thing on the github.

[hearty island]

lol kinda funny but idk if i would show that to an employer

[violet magnet]

yeah

it's funny for a very small window of time.

then you get that person who replies and is like, "FINALLY SOMEONE SPEAKING THE TRUTH"

[shut prism]

idk this sounds hilarious tbh

[violet magnet]

yeah. It kinda is but its the kinda thing that like... the more time and effort you put into refining it to appear like a real person, the more evil it becomes. So I took it down pretty quickly as probably about 50% of people I showed it to did not find it funny.

[shut prism]

fair enough understood

[violet magnet]

But my intention when making it was to shed light on how absurd the whole thing is.

What I found out is that that doesn't work. If the people who believed that stuff could tell it was absurd, they wouldnt believe it. Anyway yeah that's definitely the most divisive repo i have.

I mean its not like I had a ton of engagement. To make the thing appear like not a bot you'd have to spend more time engaging with people that believe in conspiracies, the engagement doesn't just happen. The posts are mosttly ignored.

But then there is the one person that eventuallly makes you uncomfortable with the whole thing

[idle pilot]

?

[turbid bobcat]

How much does it affect inference ?

[brazen island]

I don't know off the top of my head but there are benchmarks on this stuff. There are also benchmarks comparing fine-tune => quantize versus quantize => fine-tune (the latter is a lot more interesting)

[violet magnet]

Do you think this is too much text dedicated to talking about a project? Could I potentially elaborate more or do I want to be very concise? I'm trying to make sure Im conveying all the skills that go into the project

I realize the wording could use some touch ups in a few places

this might be time to bust out ChatGPT lol

or not lol, it just made it so much worse and filled it with shitty jargon lol

[turbid bobcat]

That's pretty cool, I'm gonna check it out.

[violet magnet]

"I am the developer and admin of neorings.org, a networking platform enabling users to host and join webrings, fostering organic traffic sharing across sites. The backend utilizes Django Rest Framework (DRF) with a django-allauth authentication system, featuring both public and private endpoints. The frontend is built with React, implementing custom CSS and efficient data caching to minimize requests. The entire system is containerized using Docker, with components including a Postgres container, an API container, and an Nginx container acting as a reverse proxy for Django, as well as a static file server for React. Additionally, a RabbitMQ container facilitates Celery for background asynchronous email notifications."

I feel like there is more to say.

But i also feel like it shouldnt ramble on

[turbid bobcat]

Wait, do you have all the components inside the docker or are you using something like compose ?

[violet magnet]

it's a compose project.

[turbid bobcat]

It's not very clear that you're using compose. But it looks pretty cool.

If you're not using any advanced features of nginx, I suggest using traefik. It's a blessing to have the configs centralized on the compose file.

[true harness]

that's quite a lot of text. I think you should use bullet points to boil down and only say the important bits

[violet magnet]

okay

[turbid bobcat]

I'm looking at the list of websites on your thing, idc what anyone says, web dev peaked at that time lmao, those were the days

[violet magnet]

A couple of people have tried to tell me that I don't need an nginx container for various reasons. But the nginx container is important. It's where the production React app is stored. It handles routing requests by location to either react or django (this makes it easy to serve both from the same domain). It has certain endpoints protected with white listed IPs and rate limiting.

I believe there are probably other tools that prevent you from having to manually configure all of this, but it's already done and it works.

But I do take into account that you're the second person whose asked me why the nginx container is there.

[violet magnet]

yeah I'm definitely nostalgic for that time period of the web. I dont expect all sites to be y2k-centric like that but I still love them.

[turbid bobcat]

Ah nginx is totally fine imo, especially if you have a working config that you don't have to touch.

I'm suggesting traefik because it's just a lot less build time and also less tinkering with what I find to be a very clunky syntax.

[violet magnet]

yeah I definitely wouldnt blame someone who skipped the server config stuff where ever they could do so. It sucks.

[turbid bobcat]

In the end, less is better, simple over complex, etc etc. saves you time in the long run.

[violet magnet]

I wouldnt change it now but if it was a new project i might conssider looking at something like traefik

[violet magnet]

Alright so I reduced it down to this, each line is a bullet point

Developed and administered neorings.org, a networking platform for hosting and joining webrings.
Backend built with DRF using allauth for authentication, featuring public and private endpoints.
Frontend developed using React with custom CSS and efficient data caching to minimize requests.
Entire system containerized with Docker, including Postgres, API, and Nginx containers.
RabbitMQ container enables Celery for background asynchronous email notifications.

You said to only include the important bits. What's the least important thing here?

maybe its unecesssary to mention rabbitmq at all, since I basically just plug it in and use it as is. But maybe just knowing what that is says a lot about my knowledge of the subject

[strange pumice]

how can i get python jobs

[pine sleet]

Same way you get any other job. Make a good resume, apply, do well on the interview, and hopefully you get the job

[strange pumice]

how many projects do i need

[pine sleet]

One or two substantial projects that you spent a long time on should be enough

you want a few really good and meaningful projects over a bunch of random small projects you worked on for a month and never touched again

[strange pumice]

so basically a project that would make an impact?

like maintenance?

[pine sleet]

sure

how do you mean?

[violet magnet]

You can scroll up and read some of what other people were saying to me about the value of a project if you want #career-advice message

[slender tiger]

Anyone take any boot camps that helped them towards getting a job? Well experienced with Python but still having much trouble landing a job/internships

[stable coral]

i like python

[wet birch]

me too

[stable coral]

its

cool

coding

languige

[wet birch]

What are your learning now

[stable coral]

trying to get voice verification

trying to get voice verification

trying to get voice verification

trying to get voice verification

[wet birch]

You will get banned while you're trying

[deft herald]

Yeah, you're missing the point of the rules

Slightly off topic but this C&H is relevant here

[wet birch]

Do you think that python will be a relevant languege in the future?

[deft herald]

yes

[wet birch]

why?

[deft herald]

Because it's so ubiquitous now.

[manic shoal]

My guess is machine learning and the benefits that come from its simplicity

[wet birch]

mhh

[royal pelican]

Do you guys think AI can replace you in the future?

[deft herald]

No

[wet birch]

😂 I hope not

[deft herald]

Cmon guys ask some hard questions 😉

[royal pelican]

Why?

[royal pelican]

Hopefully

[deft herald]

The whole CS/software industry will be the last industry to be replaced by AI

[wet birch]

mhhh

[deft herald]

If at all. Which i don't think it will ever be, at least in my or your lifetime

This horse has been beaten pretty well to death here, but AI will become a tool. If you don't want to be "replaced", you will adapt and learn how to use it

[true harness]

it seems reasonable to expect it will happen eventually

[wet birch]

That is a wild bet tho

[deft herald]

People's jobs won't be replaced by AI but rather by those who are willing to adapt and use AI as a tool

[deft herald]

Aight. What odds are you gonna give me then? I'll throw down $100

[wet birch]

I don't bet 😂

Kwoning what will happen in the future is fair to say for me that it is a wild bet

knowing*

[deft herald]

I know i know...just trying to reiterate my strong feelings about this

[deft herald]

Do you think it will?

[wet birch]

If you don't know it for sure, i won't bet a 100$. But i get your point

[turbid bobcat]

If AGI replaces me I think I'll just go do robotics, if that also gets replaced ig I'll either retire on the palm beach or have to spend the rest of my life praying to our new machine overlords.

[wet birch]

😂

[wet birch]

Same tho, but do you guys really think AI is going to turn his back on us one day?

[turbid bobcat]

It's really hard to predict how stuff is going to evolve in the next 12 months, let alone what will happen if and when something like AGI comes along.

[wet birch]

Whats AGI?

[turbid bobcat]

Artificial General Intelligence, the thing that replaces us.

[wet birch]

It would be dramatic tho

A war against the robots

[white relic]

let's try to keep this channel in the world of careers and not science fiction

[wet birch]

I forgot, sorry

[royal pelican]

Probably, OpenAI q can do things autonomous.

[wicked sedge]

Where can I find the best source to learn Python and get skilled with that, because the main problem is that it's not easy to get it through YouTube, as there should be someone or something that can give a feedback to correct mistakes?

[fringe sphinx]

Could you ask over in #python-discussion ? There’s lots of ppl there at different stages of learning

[buoyant seal]

It is just over hyped.
In reality current so called "AI" is just bullshit generator https://www.cst.cam.ac.uk/blog/afb21/oops-we-automated-bullshit
Should we worry about bullshit generators replacing us?

Current AI is kind having strong vibe to NFT stuff 😅
Sooner or later, people will figure lack of its true value and it will become having no value like NFT.

Truly like NFT it is great tool to fool non tech people though and similarly earning money on hype

People managed to figure out later NFT value. So they should figure out eventually value of those bullshit generators

[deft herald]

I mean i think it's on a level of practicality above NFT, but i agree with the sentiment. It's become another buzzword like blockchain that every new startup is trying to do something new with it.

LIke, i don't need a lightbulb with AI built in, cmon. Go use it to do something useful

[hearty island]

i used it to generate flashcards for my digital mapping class

did a pretty nice job

[hearty island]

@white relic, hopefully this ends well for me

[true harness]

couldn't you have just cropped the screenshot lol

[white relic]

Is that the secret one?

[hearty island]

nah that's UHG

[hearty island]

oh yeah that's a good point lol what was i thinking. getting into the holiday spirit ig

[hearty island]

secret one said they're sending me their invite pretty soon

i said this back to uhg: "Thank you for the prompt response! I really appreciate your effort regarding my application and I hope to hear good news from you soon!

Happy Holidays,
Damian"

[deft herald]

or copy/paste the email text

[true harness]

too annoying to paste all the time info and stuff. but i guess that's not too necessary

[near remnant]

Hey guys, I've been working as a Python Backend developer for 1,5 years now and just got an offer for a new job but the stack would mainly be TypeScript + React.
I've been using TypeScript and React at my current job but for only 3-4 months now, so nothing crazy. I have JS experience tho but I don't feel proficient at all with TS and React. Anyways, I passed the interviews and they gave me an offer for this job but I feel like I would suck so much in a job with almost unfamiliar languages or technologies. Should I still accept it?

[deft herald]

I feel like I would suck so much in a job with almost unfamiliar languages or technologies.
Doesn't seem like they are unfamiliar. I mean you passed the interview after all. I see no reason why you shouldn't take it

Classic imposter syndrome

[near remnant]

Yeah, I mean, I've developed some full-stack features with Python + Typescript and React but nothing crazy, also fixed bugs.

[deft herald]

Great. Does it sound like a good job? Do you think you'd enjoy it?

If so, then take it.

[near remnant]

Yeah

[true harness]

if they gave you the offer, they believe you can do it. the question is: is it better than your current job

[near remnant]

Yeah, much much better

[fringe sphinx]

Agree with everything above: nobody expects a new hire to be an expert day 1… even if you’re familiar with the tech.

[leaden jasper]

In my experience, my employers also understand that I'll get better with the tools/software I use over time. At my current job, they hired me knowing I had only some basic experience with their software and they trusted my ability and experience to learn the tool and become an expert at using it

[stone nymph]

totally offtopic guys but is it a bad idea to include a frontend only project on resume ? like a interior designer website with a landing page , about us , projectsamples , services and a contact us for enquiries page ?

[fringe sphinx]

This is a good watch, by the way: https://youtu.be/JNT_RdOF1vI?feature=shared

[gritty rivet]

It could be totally necessary or totally irrelevant or somewhere in between... It all depends on what you're applying for

[stone nymph]

frontend roles

[fervent pulsar]

Hey guys, quick question, I was thinking to take software developer claasses, and then switched to cybersecurity, is cybersecurity better?

[azure heart]

Depends what you mean by "better"?

[fervent pulsar]

I mean like I don't like coding all the time, i like to do projects more than coding

*writing coding

[minor sage]

what kinds of projects?

[azure heart]

what other non-coding project tasks would you expect to be doing?

[minor sage]

Cybersecurity is also very broad. Software developer is a specific job title

[deft herald]

It is? I feel like they're both extremely broad categories

you could be a software developer in the field of cybersecurity

[minor sage]

A software developer develops software

[true harness]

a cybersecurity professional secures the cyber

[deft herald]

dammit i was typing that

[minor sage]

Being "in cybersecurity" could mean you are a:
Cryptographer
Developer
Penetration tester
Red teamer
Code reviewer
Network security architect
Security operations engineer
Security risk manager
Security researcher
Incident Responder
etc.

[deft herald]

So is this one somehow more specific?

[minor sage]

Yes?

There are lots of kinds of software to develop, but the difference is mostly domain specific knowledge.

No matter what kind of development you're talking about, the actual work is development. Being "in cybersecurity" says nothing at all about what the work actually consists of.

[deft herald]

I see i see. I'm used to thinking of cybersecurity as a subset of software, but i suppose that's not entirely the case

[minor sage]

I mean you're not wrong about it being a subset of software for the most part. But there's more to software than just making it.

Sysadmins also deal with software, but that's a very different job from being a dev.

[white relic]

Me: changes the lock on the server room yeah, I'm in cybersecurity

[regal axle]

Man .... so I have a previous manager writing rec letters for me. But he is a very to the point kinda guy. Doesn't like wasting time and the likes. Well a consequence of that is sometimes he can accidentally be lazy. Quick read, miss some tiny detail - moves on. Point being, I have pestered him about submitting the letters. And he does them. But he doesn't do all of them. Every time. He then emails saying like "did them, good luck." And its just like, sir, you didn't do them all. So of course the only one left for him to do is the one that is my top pick school and it is due tomorrow . I hate keep emailing him but also what else is there to do 😦

[true harness]

call, i guess

[regal axle]

Don't have his number. Otherwise I would have done that awhile ago.

I just don't want him to end up resenting agreeing to help me and end up having a negative feeling of me after all of this. I would rather him have positive thoughts about me

[dense mesa]

IT support isn't better, not sure if my message came through correctly

[hidden bloom]

yeah so go with integratiosn kubernetes stuff right? even tho its lower pay? i will try to ask for pay raise

[dense mesa]

I have been working basically full-time on Kubernetes for months now and it's pretty fun, you learn a lot about scaling business systems

[regal axle]

Presumably, one of the schools I applied to only reaches out to recs after the applicant passes 1st stage. So I also want him to still be able to submit it ....

[dense mesa]

IT support is decent and could be a good experience for a year industry, but you'll probably get bored and perhaps just pigeonholed as a level 1 tech support person

[hidden bloom]

thats what im thinking

[hidden bloom]

its also useful to know like integrations / testing and stuff cus usually when u code stuff (with devops) and all being on the rise dont they expect some knowledge of deployment etc?

[dense mesa]

Deployment would be decent to know, as a dev it's probably not as important as a devops team world want it to be, but it's very business-oriented which is helpful

Basically ERP is boring as hell for a lot of people, and doing IT support is not going to provide much insight (if any) into software engineering.

An entire year of devops/kubernetes work could stretch on a bit, but you'd have way more exposure to software development and could get involved in some way

[hidden bloom]

kk thanks for confirming! i really appreciate it

[wary laurel]

hows the uk job market for entry positions???

[hidden bloom]

is this bad to say in a placement email (tryna negotiate for higher salary): "I am extremely appreciative of this offer, and definitely want to take it however, I noticed that the salary is a bit lower than I expected. I currently have some competing offers with higher salaries, but I would prefer working at this company. Is the salary fixed, or is negotiating it to be a bit higher a possibility?

No worries if not,"

[smoky quest]

if it's not a worry, then the company won't do anything 😉

[hidden bloom]

so i should take that bit out and end with 'thanks so much,'?

[smoky quest]

overall, there is a bit more to it:

• What's the expected outcome? Just more? Would 1$ more be okay?
• Why would they increase the offer? How do your expectations match the realities of the market and the company?

[hidden bloom]

like 2k more about not a huge jump its currently 19,500 for the year which is not the lowest possible salary for placement companies but it could be higher... like i'm looking for 21k hopefully? the other company is offering me 23,700 soo but it is to do IT support... and hopefully they would increase it because they want me?

[smoky quest]

then great!
You can frame your email about how you got a higher competing offer at 23700 but would rather join them. And how they would help making the decision easier and signing sooner if they were able to bump your offer to something comparable.
Up to you if you want to aim for 23700 or 21000

[hidden bloom]

so i shld be specific ?? as to what i expect?

should i ask for it to be met? or just 21k? if i do 21k what if they wouldve actually met it at 23k tho lol

[smoky quest]

It's a matter of possible vs plausible.
you certainly make it easier for them to bump by being more specific

[hidden bloom]

"I am extremely appreciative of this offer, and definitely want to take it however, I noticed that the salary is a bit lower than I expected. I currently have a competing offer with a salary of 23,700, but I would prefer working at this company. Is the salary open to negotiatian? Please do let me know, "

[smoky quest]

I noticed that the salary is a bit lower than I expected.

Is bugging me for some reason.
I would flip the problem to them rather than you. That means buttering them about how excited you are and how you enjoyed talking to everyone and how you would love to work there if only they were able to match a competing offer.

So I am riffing but something closer to:

I am extremely appreciative of this offer. I really enjoyed talking to the team and can already see myself working with everyone! However I also have a competing offer with a salary of 23,700. I would prefer working at this company but this is making it difficult for me. Is it something you could match? It would greatly facilitate my decision and enable me to sign without any regret or second thoughts.

[hidden bloom]

i love you for this

do u think companies revoke offers usually if u ask to negotiate?

[haughty slate]

If I wanted to be a back-end web developer, what skills would I be trying to learn? A framework like Django, database stuff like Postgresql or non-sql databases, I can kinda get, but like... what else?

[true harness]

microservice architecture, high level design things. maybe some devops type things like docker

[minor sage]

HTTP

Fancy things like docker are all well and good, but the number of backend developers I've worked with who have no idea what a request/response chain even actually looks like is too high

Also would be useful to have some exposure to APIs, since a lot of backend is either consuming or implementing them

[fringe sphinx]

Be prepared to show the competing offer. It’s not unheard of for companies to match. Don’t lie. Negotiate when you truly have a better plan b: entry level candidates don’t have much leverage.

[hidden bloom]

yeah i do actually have it / am prepared

[lost fern]

Not great right now. I know some experienced people who are being made redundant in various roles. Usually this puts extra pressure at all levels, including entry/graduate. Some companies never quite recovered from COVID, others did well out of COVID and then hired too many people and are cutting back now.

[wary laurel]

im 28 and only starting to learn code. i have a bachelors in politics but want to get into tech, i think i'll be a mediocore dev. nothing special

what shall i do to increase my chances ?

[lost fern]

your bachelor gives you subject matter expertise in certain areas

[true harness]

make rigged voting machines 🦅

[fringe sphinx]

Then keep it simple. Not unreasonable to say you really like the company but you have a higher competing offer. Companies really don’t like losing out to competing offers… but it’s possible they say No. I doubt anyone would they’d rescind an offer, if you’re polite.

[lost fern]

try and combine this subject matter expertise with the tech skills you are building up

[wary laurel]

not sure how the two combine

[lost fern]

Have a look at places like Ofcom who are regulating Telecoms and trying to regulate Internet. They are an environment where techies and policy people work together

[fringe sphinx]

My usual speech is: there are many jobs in tech, not all SWE. Learning to code is good cross training, and with a non tech background, you might find customer facing roles might be a natural starting point. QA and support are also good starting /transitional roles.

[wary laurel]

true, i dont think i want to code long term. i only want coding expereince to get my foot through the door.

I have good managerial experience in other industries. So I was hoping to maybe transition more into managing and shipping out the product at companies rather than coding long term myself

i'm not sure how pracitcal that goal is ...

[smoky quest]

possible, but hard to say.

[wary laurel]

is that a common role ?

[minor sage]

LIke you want to be a project manager?

[smoky quest]

managing is a common role

But in general, wanting to be manager for the status or salary is aiming at it for the wrong reasons and results in unpleasant surprises and lack of success

[wary laurel]

yes

[smoky quest]

oh project manager is not a manager. That's a different role

[wary laurel]

i have good managerial experience outside of tech but hoping to achieve it inside the tech industry

[smoky quest]

you don't manage people in a factory the same way you manage software engineers

[wary laurel]

how do you manage software engineers? make sure they have the correct architecture ?

[smoky quest]

If you have to ask, it means you aren't ready yet 🙂

I would recommend https://www.amazon.com/Managers-Path-Leaders-Navigating-Growth/dp/1491973897 to get started as it gives a nice overview of the different responsibilities in a tech company. Focused on the eng side though, so no project manager or product manager being described

[wary laurel]

thanks but yes i'm totally not ready. i'm still just learning to code

[fringe sphinx]

Totally practical. Many many jobs in tech. Lots of different skill combinations are effective.

[smoky quest]

yep no worries. One step at a time!
You still have plenty of time.

[wary laurel]

any advice on the type of projects my portfolio should have ? regarding CV and applications to entry role positions

[smoky quest]

Could be skill based like off the skills from https://roadmap.sh/ or more CS-y based of what a typical student would have (ex: writing a compiler, implementing paxos, typical ML project, etc.).
It will depend on the type of roles you will apply to

[violet magnet]

I have a blog post that I want to know if I should take it off my site while applying for jobs. But i don't know if its appropriate to share it on here either.

I'm going to posst the link, but feel free to remove it. I dont thinkk its bad but I feel like other people might

https://divsel.neocities.org/blog/2023/03/retroarch-linux/

[wary laurel]

would i need to hit every milestone before getting an entry position?

[pine sleet]

You can skip some or go in a different order if you want

[wary laurel]

what can you skip for example? ive started python and i've learnt basics..

[pine sleet]

It depends on exactly what your career goals are. For instance, if you're not at all interested in web development you can skip the Django and Flask stuff.

[wary laurel]

aha yes, but for that section it said learn 'a' framework - so i expected one framework, not all

[pine sleet]

You don't have to learn any if you don't want to

[turbid bobcat]

I'm gonna code and train nano gpt to get the hang of the transformer arch. I think I have a good general understanding of it but the hands on aspect will help me a lot. After that I plan to customize it to make it be able to efficiently receive two token sequences instead of one. That will be the PoC for my real time voice chat LLM project.

The plan is to later take lamma, maybe a quantized version of it, and fine tune it to be multimodal with sound. Still no idea how I'll do it.

[gritty rivet]

What have you built so far? What kind of work do you want to be doing?

My portfolio is a REST API built in Flask and a text-based game. I quickly found a great job after I pulled that together.

I had a lot of things going for me though, including a much better job market then today's.

Nobody can really say what you need to do to get the job you will find, but you keep an eye on the job market and what employers are looking for, build something that demonstrates those skills, apply for jobs, and if it doesn't work, rinse and repeat until it does.

[violet magnet]

Applying for the jobs gives me an incredible amount of anxiety that I need to supress and just religioussly do it.

[fringe sphinx]

Look at it this way, you don’t have the job now, and if they reject you, nothing has changed. So, downside is net neutral

[violet magnet]

if they did contact me the anxiety would spike up, but i think i could handle it. I've never done a tech interview except once. It was for a customer support job and I knew all the answers and the guy even was amazaed that I knew all the answers to his DNS questions, and they didn't give me the job. Probably because i was a nervous wreck and ultimately it was still a customer service position so that probably looked bad. But I think im more fit to handle anxiety now than i was then also.

[fringe sphinx]

That’s the funny thing about interviews: the outcomes often seem unrelated to the actual interview: you can get all the questions right and have an amazing interview, but not get hired, and you can get questions wrong and still get the job. Trying to analyze it is futile: but they do get easier with practice.

[violet magnet]

it was a video interview for remote job. the guy was kinda irritated that the person who was supposed to give the interview with him didnt show up.

[alpine halo]

Any data engineering group here?

[gritty rivet]

There's a whole server associated with r/dataengineering

[summer roost]

this is the #career-advice channel

!rule 5 as well

[inner wren]

Rules

5. Do not provide or request help on projects that may violate terms of service, or that may be deemed inappropriate, malicious, or illegal.

[tender plume]

xd sorry

[turbid bobcat]

It's too true

[dense mesa]

I think a lot of it is down to candidate attitude and approach to problems, people can be usually be taught technical skills, but it's harder to "teach" being a team player for example

[shadow peak]

I am currently in IT as helpdesk and I am also learning how to program with python and such. I am wondering what roles have overlap there? Is there any roles which I can move into from being in help desk that involve a lot of programming?

[shadow peak]

Did an interview a while ago for a remote IT position where after we were done and the recruiter stopped recording I asked "in your honest opinion how did I do?". He then proceeded to rant to me for 10 minutes on how good of an interviewer I was citing confidence and how articulate I was for someone my age. He actually went out of his way and shit on other candidates that did interviews and then on top of that told me that my resume was going directly to the hiring manager and to follow up with him on monday (I did the interview friday). I came out of that feeling like I did great and that I had a good shot at the job. I followed up with him the following monday. Then tuesday. Tuesday became friday and by the following monday I gave up. I got ghosted and still haven't heard back 2 months later. The job market is brutal right now.

from then on I pretty much never ask "how did I do?" after an interview. Badluck? Maybe. Dumb question which lacks confidence? Probably. Irrelevant to the probability of acquiring said job? Absolutely.

[merry birch]

Is data analysis mostly just excel

I want to make and handle data's and program an code that handles what to do with that data

[wary laurel]

I've not built anything. still learning

[smoky quest]

you should always build something, even if it's a small "guess the random number" beginner program. It's the best way to learn

[wary laurel]

aha, I already do this in my learning.

[smoky quest]

nice! So you do have some projects 😉

[jade condor]

hello

[lost fern]

In Python, start with the Pandas library for tabular data.

[merry birch]

thanks

[peak halo]

stelios, who is not my greek alter ego, is right

[merry birch]

i thought tables would be standard in python tbh

like just make

variable = {} and tadah an table

[peak halo]

This is the career discussion channel, but that code does instantiate a hash table, known as a dict.

[keen estuary]

*a table

[half aurora]

@wary laurel A bit late to the conversation but I also would say that a public repo is great to have for people to reference but when I was trying to get into the job market it was more 2 part interviews (the standard discussion interview and then a programming interview). For me that worked out cause I still don't have a code portfolio although I DO recommend it. You can also try to get experience with various areas while in uni that aren't course based through funded research within your department or internships. Most do not expect much knowledge and serve as a training camp to go alongside your school.

[wary laurel]

I have a degree, but not in CS or related science field. I was considering a CS masters conversion course

[lusty dune]

We should make a database which does not allow us to insert "Grimalda" into it.

#okvrapcusamoneuGrimaldu

[half aurora]

I know a few peers that had a similar situation where they came into CS Masters a degree in another field and, although it was difficult at first, they did well in the end. and depending on the type of masters program you can get also get different experience (e.g., course based, project based (where offered), or thesis based)

[wary laurel]

yes i suppose so, some people talked down a conversion masters, but someone who progressed with it said, to employers it doesnt make a difference much

[half aurora]

I think it def depends on the person, how you performed in that masters program, did u come out with any publications, etc. My buddy has a bachelors in history, masters in computer science, and ph.D in Computer and Information Sciences and works as a Data Scientist lead for a large local company. The path doesn't matter as much as just ensuring that you get to the end goal.

[hoary matrix]

Is talking and helping with web scraping allowed here?

[near ocean]

not in this channel

[hoary matrix]

Overall

[low halo]

it's better to ask in #community-meta, but I think web scraping is allowed so long as it's not for malicious purposes or breaks one of the #rules

[hoary matrix]

Noo, I just want to make a discord bot that sends embed with title and description every time a thread is added to forum

[low halo]

should be fine imo

[hoary matrix]

Thanks

[hearty island]

try an ot channel

[grim badger]

HI

[gritty rivet]

I made the jump from help desk to developer with only fairly basic Python skills (plus a bit of SQL, Bash and cloud knowledge).

Because it's a customer facing role and a small startup with a lot of application support, I feel that my help desk experience is valued and helped me get the role.

I did the Nucamp Backend bootcamp but a more self-taught would have been totally possible with a bit more discipline

[hearty island]

if the interview says it's business casual attire at the minimum, should i play it safe and wear a suit?

[half aurora]

can never go wrong wearing a suit

[hearty island]

word

[half aurora]

If you feel you are overdressed then you can leave the jacket in the car

[hearty island]

yeah it's a remote one but this is like super serious and i wanna make a great impresssion

[half aurora]

if you have it, wear it. The worst thing that happens is you look amazing.

[hearty island]

i'm not allowed to have any electronics on me besides my laptop and i'm supposed to pan my entire room

they're very meticulous lol

[half aurora]

sounds like a programming portion of an interview and they want to be sure what you deliver is your work / thoughts and not like ChatGPT

[hearty island]

it's not really programming. well. part of it is.

[half aurora]

ah

[hearty island]

i can't really dive into detail abt the role bc they might make me sign an NDA

[dense mesa]

No NDA signed yet though 👍

[hearty island]

yeah, still tho

[undone glacier]

What jobs would likely look for fastAPI devs?

Like the uvicorn stack

Wondering because the java side always criticizes python for having 'fake' threading

[merry birch]

if im gonna be a data anylisis

would i mostly be using excel panda and math

[half aurora]

the answer is yes

I work as a Data Scientist and the majority of my work is data analytics. I use pandas, excel, and math daily.

[merry birch]

nice i was worried id have to use java... get it cause java is bad

[hearty island]

and a dash of sql

[half aurora]

not to speak on other places but all the work I have done has been, thusfar, in python with a dash of cpp

but the cpp is in pairing with python

[undone glacier]

I thought cpp with python was usually for quant

But it sorta makes sense for datasci too

[half aurora]

a lot of the times I have to use it for the ML side of my processes to get a more performant model

[fringe sphinx]

There’s no wrong answer. Personally, I wear a suit jacket for ‘important’ zooms with customers because I think a dress shirt can look a little too casual (and wrinkly). But for me, no tie

[hearty island]

i was thinking i'd just wear a suit and dress pants. got a fresh really short haircut too bc first impressions matter

[half aurora]

or for computation efficiency for larger datasets.

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, there’s nothing wrong with being overdressed. A lot of entry candidates come in wearing poorly fitted suits, it’s normal.

[hearty island]

it's better than underdressed

[fringe sphinx]

Better than the candidate I had who came in jeans, work boots and a pocket knife.

[hearty island]

nah that's cap, fr?

[fringe sphinx]

(Although I hired him anyway)

[half aurora]

were they nice jeans?

[hearty island]

my friend's brother got a job at mastercard at his career fair showing up in jeans and a sweatshirt to "stand out"

[fringe sphinx]

No. But he was a great hire.

The pocket knife was almost a hard no tho. At a larger company, it would’ve been

(Like a belt knife half visible)

[hearty island]

i can’t even wear my apple watch during my interview lol

[fringe sphinx]

lol. They must’ve had some seriously bad hires/cheaters

[hearty island]

any devices capable of recording must be stowed away

[fringe sphinx]

That’s dumb, since you’re accessing it on a computer

[hearty island]

i do some trolling and i have the questions along with some responses pulled up on the side for every video interview i’ve done lol. but i don’t read off them

they’re just a basis in case i get stuck

[hearty island]

but i’m really hoping these guys interview me better than l3harris did

i fully believe they intend to use an entire hour to interview me

[violet magnet]

what do you think of this

I'm actutally leaving out a ton of its featuress because its too long

[fringe sphinx]

At first glance, I like it. Is the second one legal tho?

[violet magnet]

yeah, swmcentral is an old site from the 90s/y2k era, they dont have a policy on scraping, and most prominent members of the community have their own tools for accessing the site. As sfor the legaity of romhacking, the only files involved are ASM patches. We do not distrubute roms

BPS patches technically

[fringe sphinx]

Maybe change word scraping to automation, or …automated retrieval of…

[violet magnet]

interesting. I didnt realize scraping was a naughty word but fair.

[half aurora]

it's like a grey area.

[violet magnet]

it's really not in this context because the site is a hobby site that fundamentally cannot be business

and no one cares. But I realize that some people will not have the ability to overlook connotation.

and whether or not its legal to modify SNES carts was decided in like uh... Nintendo vs the makers of the Game Genie back in the 90s

I guess I have to be ready to talk about this stuff if im gonna put that on there which i didnt think of.

not including it would be omitting one of my best things though so i cant do that.

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, I was suggesting just replacing the word "scrape" in the description, not removing the project entirely.

[violet magnet]

right yeah i think that makes sense

I could even fork and rename the project. It actually is much more than a scraper. It handles downloading, patching, storing in the database, it reads the SRAM of the games to get save data from the ROMs to use in the database, it has a TUI game launcher

[fringe sphinx]

That sounds both interesting, and yah, definitely re-name it. That sounds like a great project.

[violet magnet]

I wonder what to name it

[half aurora]

names are always the worst thing. repo names are the equiv to in game names

[violet magnet]

yeah i think calling it a scraper both reduces the project than less than it is and makes people see guilty by assoication so changing the name is requirement tho

I guess the tool shifted into being about maintaining a large collection of Mario hacks, which is the word that is used in the SNES modding community. I wonder if I should say "mod" instead of "hack"

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, mod, extension, etc sound a lot better

Or customizations.

[violet magnet]

I mean, I feel like calling it something other than a game mod seems pretentious. But I agree that mod is a safer word.

[fringe sphinx]

mod seems fine for me. Hack and Scrape just carry too much baggage

[violet magnet]

yeah, for some reason a game mod for a 90s console is referred to as a hack by the people that do them. But in PC culture of the 90s and onward, people will call them mods. But its the same thing and yeah, you can avoid a whole range of negative assumptions by not using that word

The company Imm gonna apply for says that they are looking for candidates who are interested in embedded systetms that they would onboard and teach from the skilll level of being ideally a fullstack django/react person

[fringe sphinx]

Sounds like a good opportunity.

[violet magnet]

i could call it, MarioModManager lol

or

MarioModDB

[violet magnet]

I feel like im talking about the project that has nothing to do with the job im applying for more than the one above which has more to do.

[stone nymph]

Is web designing less hectic than web development?

[static ridge]

I would say it is yeah

[stone nymph]

This free lancer is earning 30 dollar for this site

I can design similar to this

Also im bored of learning how to code and feel like its hectic

[violet magnet]

I think if you're exceptionally good at design that is something not everyone has.

not sure how much value there is for someone that only designs...

but i bet it gets you looked at favorably if you're among the best at it

[inland sierra]

I'm interested in starting a SaaS company. I am US based and I'm wondering if anyone has done something similar and is able to provide some tips and chat about their process and thoughts.

[vapid jay]

like they got paid $30 total?

[stone nymph]

For Every task on fiverr

[vapid jay]

so every website they make is $30

[stone nymph]

Yea

Sometimes they need to make a landing page only

I did this in my first attempt after watching a 10min figma tutorial

I tried:))

[violet magnet]

Is something this ridiculous acceptable to list on projects if it demonstrates using React?

https://divsel.neocities.org/xp

[sand hawk]

if the recruiter is a bit nostalgic you'll get hired before the end of the interview 🙂

[violet magnet]

good call

It also gives me an opportunity to talk about the tree data structure i implemented that allows absolutte and relative path traversal in that fake cmd.exe session

Also the minimize and other window functionality is cool

[turbid bobcat]

I would mention compose (cuz it's an extra free keyword to add in there). How did you do data caching ? Did you use redux ?

What do you mean by implementing sqlite3? Maybe I got the terminology wrong, but seems to imply you literally coded an SQLite engine thing.

[violet magnet]

I feel like docker and compose is fundamentally the same thing isnt it? It would be like saying, "I use git and merge"

And the caching is done using local storage custom hook

talking about sqlite3 is just how i am saying that a majority of the app is interacting with relational database

[true harness]

no. you can use docker containers without compose, they are not the same thing. and "implementing sqlite3" would mean writing the dbms itself, not just using it

[violet magnet]

i see

[turbid bobcat]

Uhm, I'd say that a lot of the stuff you do with compose would be impractical with just the docker cmd.

Right, so maybe designed an sqlite3 database could be a better direction for the wording idk. I may be wrong tho

[violet magnet]

okay got it.

[turbid bobcat]

On react-xp, first bullet point, probably a good idea to mention that it is faking the windows XP OS.

And probably faking is not the best word, maybe simulating the frontend ? Emulating it ? I don't know.

I'd also move the second from last bullet point upwards, the one about the cmd stuff. Has a bit of a backend vibe to it, like it's not just frontend you're also doing some cool logic to sell the illusion.

[violet magnet]

calling it an emulator would be nice but idk if its full featured enough to be called an emulator. It's just a nostalgic interface that implements mostly superficial

yeah the file system is the coolest thing there tbh. the second coolest is the reusable window behaviour with custom hooks

[dense mesa]

You can use emulator without it being fully emulated. And yes docker ≠ docker compose

[violet magnet]

got it

compose is basically all i do with docker

[turbid bobcat]

Would also be good if you could leave links to GitHub showcasing the code.

I hear if you show code with a tests folder and other basic best practices you'll basically jump ahead of a lot of people.

[violet magnet]

so, this is my worst flaw. I dont write tests and i need to start doing it. The github links are definitely going in

[dense mesa]

Potentially unethical advice but you could input the repo to some LLM-based code analysis tool (whichever is popular currently) and ask it to generate tests

[violet magnet]

my experience with getting AI to write tests for you is that it tests things that dont need to be tested.

[minor sage]

Try TDD

[turbid bobcat]

Trust me when I say this, you don't want to be in a project or company where they don't value tests. It's an absolute nightmare. There's a lot of opinions around about how to do them or when is the right time or what is the right amount, but, no tests is a big no no for me and I will drop any interview where the company tells me they do 0 tests.

[sand hawk]

honestly that looks pretty cool, way beyond react

[minor sage]

I write my tests second. But if you want to build a new habit, write your tests first, before you even start writing the code they're going to be testing.

[violet magnet]

yeah so... I can totally see the imperative of tests on enterprise code with many developers and rapid, daily deployment.

I would likely learn to do it more consistently. But I never have

[turbid bobcat]

I'll usually get the first idea out and then start testing on the right boundaries. There's a balance to be had between speed and long term thinking. I don't have the answers tbh, just that 0 testing will turn your life into a nightmare.

[sand hawk]

I'm often too lazy to write tests first, but more and more I try to do them first because it acts both as brainstorm and specs and also free tests

boundaries is the right term

[turbid bobcat]

Another thing, I'll usually boldface the keywords. So like DRF, CSS, SQLite3, etc. To make them stand out at a glance.

Not yet sure if it helps a lot, but I think sometimes recruiters just wanna quickly glance and check some boxes so it might be helpful for those initial stages.

This is how I'm organizing it at the moment.

[violet magnet]

I'm concerned that my linkedin photo is too ghetto because i dont have the photography studio taking my picture

[feral verge]

I would worry more about your CV.

[violet magnet]

lol yeah well there isn't a lot I can do about not having a CV since I taught myself everything.

[feral verge]

What is your education level?

[violet magnet]

high school. I went to college but I didnt finish so it doesnt look good to talk about it i dont think

[feral verge]

Foucs more on what you have done.

[turbid bobcat]

Is there any chance you can continue your college education part time ?

[feral verge]

Your CV should reflect your work and have your education last, but I do strongly suggest getting a BS later.

Since you will be passed over for those who graduated with their BS.

[turbid bobcat]

I've seen so many people cheat their way through a degree tho. Then get to the end and be surprised they don't well on the job market.

[feral verge]

Why should that worry you then?

[turbid bobcat]

It doesn't, I'm just trying to add balance to the conversation. To not make it seem like someone who has dropped out doesn't have a chance or shouldn't have a chance. In the end it's all about knowledge and skill.

[feral verge]

They have a chance, but they are competing with a group of people that have documented skills over just their word. I know IBM is now doing away with degrees as a standard, if you want to look into that there is that.

[minor sage]

It's not that hard, you just have to not treat hiring like tinder

[turbid bobcat]

I pretty much have an MSc (finish line of it). And the credentials do help, but like, it's not about the piece of paper, it's about what you did to get it.

[feral verge]

Depends upon what you are looking for. My current job took me bgging on my knees with MIT to get tinto their lab, but they are an outlier.

[timid nova]

oh my god the knife ashdahdashdashd

[minor sage]

Meeting people and showing them you can actually do things in my experience is a lot better than trying to cold call

[turbid bobcat]

But I wonder if IBM is doing that for their research divisions.

[feral verge]

I always recommend internships.

https://www.ibm.com/careers/us-en/teams/research/ My suggestion is to e-mail them.

[turbid bobcat]

I already have 2YOE, not sure if doing an internship now is valid.

[minor sage]

fwiw my current job "requires" like a BS, certifications, and 3 years experience in the role. They bumped the reqs way up because they were tired of interviewing terrible candidates. I didn't have any of those and still got it. Having a social network can help you a lot.

[wary laurel]

are you UK based?

[half aurora]

negative. USA

[turbid bobcat]

The salary for that quantum computing research internship looks decent for an internship. Even considering location more or less.

[feral verge]

Do you have any certifications?

This is a great website that landed me my job and it is worth a look.

https://www.clearancejobs.com

[turbid bobcat]

I have a physics BSc, presented at workshop and got my work accepted as a poster at a couple international conferences. Also have a couple good papers to write and an MSc to finish

[timid nova]

what's hectic?

[turbid bobcat]

Ah I'm not in the US, tho I'm looking to relocate

[feral verge]

Yeah, I have like four papers I need to finish as well. Published papers always are a huge help.

[feral verge]

Which region?

[turbid bobcat]

For sure, the thing is that mine are not related to my current field, they are more about computational simulation and Monte Carlo methods.

I'm in Europe

[feral verge]

I mean, I have half-written papers in mathematics and one in physics from different fields as I did research in proof space and Type Ia Supernova, since my BS is in applied mathematics and my MS is in physics.

[turbid bobcat]

Sounds super cool, I didn't know you could easily go into MSc in physics coming from math. Didn't you struggle cuz of missing gaps ?

[feral verge]

For me I see that not as an issue as many things often relate. One of the biggest demands I see is in antennae systems.

[bitter skiff]

guys i have a question about python
look when u want to login into your telegram account you'll need a 5 digit code
is it possible to make a code with "for" or "while" to try "10001" to "99999"
and login into that account?

[feral verge]

I had issues, but I did get a 3.78.

I will admit, I got a B+ three classes and A-s

But I also took the hard classes and the gaps are not as great as I had professors who told me what to read to keep up.

You will do extra work, but knowing math, you can do tricks other students do not know.

[turbid bobcat]

I suppose a lot of that more advanced physics is very mathy anyway.

[fringe sphinx]

This is #career-advice , perhaps ask in #python-discussion . But, we won't help with bypassing login codes.

[feral verge]

In many cases it balances itself when students are having a hard time doing general relativity and they are struggling with differential geometry and I just breeze through it since I did it before.

[bitter skiff]

😂 brooo please i just wanna know its work or not
i think its gonna work

[fringe sphinx]

!rule 5 sorry, not something we’ll help with.

[inner wren]

Rules

5. Do not provide or request help on projects that may violate terms of service, or that may be deemed inappropriate, malicious, or illegal.

[turbid bobcat]

Yeah that makes sense. So now you do ML research or something like that ?

[bitter skiff]

😂 ok tnx

[feral verge]

I do defense research with MIT and will do my PhD soon as well.

I strongly suggest you get a security clearence as it opens the doors to higher paid postions and job security.

[fringe sphinx]

Chicken and egg. You can't get a clearance without a sponsor.

[half aurora]

u need a sponsor

[true harness]

and most clearances require you to be a US person

[turbid bobcat]

I'm not a US citizen though. At the moment I'm really into ML and considering if it is possible to do a PhD in that.

[feral verge]

You can apply yourself or in my case your job would sponsor it.

[half aurora]

you cannot initiate the process without a sponsor to be more specific*

[feral verge]

That might be an issue, but getting US citizenship is a start.

[true harness]

how do you apply yourself ?

[turbid bobcat]

I'm working on it. Seems like just getting H1B will be hard.

[pine sleet]

indeed

[turbid bobcat]

I'll regret it more if I don't try tho, so I gotta do what I gotta do.

[half aurora]

no path worth taking is the easy one.

[feral verge]

It is more of a joke, but you being the owner yourself that works with the DOD.

You really just go throguh your job, which is why certain jobs takes three to four weeks as time before you start as you know.

[feral verge]

It should be easier with your background.

[turbid bobcat]

Hope so, I'm a bit worried that the incomplete MSc will get in the way. The plan would be to first move to the US (cuz it's the hardest part) and then finish the MSc on my free time without pressure.

[shadow peak]

So shoot for roles at smaller companies and learn sql got it thank you very much

[violet magnet]

Not having a BS wasn't a calculated decision obviously. It's sort of just dealing with the hand I was dealt. And I do agree I will be passed over a lot of times, but there is probably someone who is frustrated with overpaying kid out of college that knows significantly less than I do.

I loved school but at the time that I was in school, I didn't really know what I wanted to do first of all and then I ran into medical and family and finance problems that resulted in a different focus and uncertain future for my life. That stage is kinda behind me though. I could see continuing it as maybe possible. Maybe. But I feel like I'm already qualified for entry level so its worth just trying and see what happens. If it doesn't work it might make sense to try to improve the resume by going back

I definitely priortize applying for positions that dont ask for a BS as a requiremment, which there are both types of postings

[vapid jay]

hi, i am 18, i just have a question..

[half aurora]

ask away

[vapid jay]

I see my self as a pretty good python coder and here, its hard to find a job, do yall know what i can do to make my skills profitable and earn some like a side earn

[half aurora]

how many applications have you submitted?

[vapid jay]

hundreads

[half aurora]

as far as that goes I would suggest to keep applying and not to give up.

as far as the skil side goes. Consider a project for yourself. Pick up an area of interest that you want to go in and try to work on improving in that area (e.g., machine learning, data analytics, etc.)

[true harness]

if hundreds of applications are not working, you need to change something

[pine sleet]

Are you in the US?

[vapid jay]

Canada

[pine sleet]

Hm. I can't really speak for Canada, but at least in the U.S, you won't really find people hiring 18 year olds for software development jobs. At least, if you're not a university student at that time seeking internships (then it's much more common)

[white relic]

What kinds of companies are you applying to?

[violet magnet]

I wonder if I should keep adding projects to the resume to compensate for the lack of work experience and degree.

[fringe sphinx]

This is somewhat generic advice but: if you think you're good, and want to build your resume, perhaps look into contributing to OSS. There's lots of projects with "good-first-issues". It's not easy, and it's definitely a long-game... not a short-term play. But, it's certainly a resume builder.

For example: https://github.com/matplotlib/matplotlib/labels/Good first issue

[violet magnet]

I wonder if the pelican static site generator is in active development. I could probably do a contrib for that

How do you represent OSS contributions on resume? Just a section with links to PRs?

[fringe sphinx]

Just like a project, is how I've seen it.

I'll just point out that it's not so simple to contribute. There's a lot of process, sign-offs, etc to get a PR through. But, it's a heckuva good lesson/experience.

[violet magnet]

the one time I did a PR that I thought was good enough to merge, someone in the Discord of the project practically laughed me out of the room saying they would not merge that haha.

well I didnt submit the PR, but I did the mod for myself and shared the branch in Discord

I dont think they were laughing at the code quality, more just the idea that they would want that feature in main.

a better approach to OSS contrib is probably to work on something that was asked for

[fringe sphinx]

Yup. Look for issues labeled ‘good-first-issue’

[violet magnet]

yeah unfortunately pelican does't have any good first issues. There is probably another library I could get into. Something in the web world or system admin world is probably ideal for me.

how good does a blog post need to be consider including it. I would imagine nothing that isn't either very on topic or coming from a distinguished publisher

[fringe sphinx]

imo, it's not a single contribution or a single post that makes something important. It's contributions over time.

[violet magnet]

right

[fringe sphinx]

That’s kinda why I said it was a long game… doesn’t help you today, but in a year? Yah

[keen estuary]

what is the topic?

[violet magnet]

yeah it was really the passing of time that led me to be where im at now, where the number of projects i have made the idea of applying curious. I didn't really expect I would ever get to this point, there just became a turning point where I was always working on something and time passed.

I could try to branch out into contributions, I definitely don't have the experience of working on something with others.

[fringe sphinx]

Open source contributions as a method of building a resume - and gaining valuable experience

[violet magnet]

Do you think I should have an intro line like...

"As a seasoned Full Stack Engineer and adept Linux System Administrator, I bring a wealth of hands-on experience in developing robust web applications and ensuring seamless operation of Linux-based systems."

It would probably be a unique line for every company it was sent to

[violet magnet]

I'm prettty sure the job Ive been trying to apply to is just a circular scam of websites that redirectr to other websites and finally ask you for money 😩

ah I found a proper application link through official careers page

How important is a cover letter?

[hearty island]

depends on the position and the country

[violet magnet]

it's USA, backend/frontend developer. I could do either one.

[white relic]

I don't think I've ever noticed a difference in callback rate (when I was jobhunting) between cover letter and no cover letter. As someone who reviews technical résumés, I don't ever see them, but I don't know if that's because nobody bothers to write them in the first place or because by the time a candidate gets to my stage nobody thinks I care to read them so they don't bother sending them to me.

If you can write a cover letter in 5 minutes and move on with your day, it might be worthwhile. I tend to agonize over wording and it feels like a waste of time.

[vapid jay]

what happen to discord servers right now?

[oak reef]

It's down

[gritty rivet]

Wrong channel but discordstatus.com

[oak reef]

does anyone know why?

[harsh river]

no, only discord would and they dont give the info till later.

[smoky quest]

I would use the following framework:

• If you are going to fake it, might as well not send anything
• Avoid templates and chatgpt as it sounds disinterested
• If you want to send one, send it for the top 3 companies that you care about. It will feel more heartfelt
• It's more of a differentiator and helping land in the positive side in case the reviewer was on the fence about you

[rich plank]

How do i start doing commissions here on discord?

[gritty rivet]

Commissions? Like paid freelance jobs? You don't.

[ivory sluice]

are you asking in general on discord the platform?

[violet magnet]

I wouldn't even know how to prepare for an interview. The only thing i can think of is to quickly go over all the code of the things i mention looking for things to talk about if asked questions

[dense mesa]

Leetcode-style question practice, understanding of basic system design, know your CV well enough to answer any questions about it on the fly, examples of teamwork and difficult projects not on your CV, go through the company's website and understand their values and practices

[brazen island]

Where are you based? This matters for this kind of question. "Interview culture" is highly dependent on location and most of the answers you'll find here are US-centric 🙂

[past flicker]

https://cpsc.yale.edu/research-internship-program

[stone nymph]

Is web designing a good career?

[buoyant seal]

any career is good career if u have talent to it 😉
quick survey over my poor country says that UX/UI designer can earn developer level salary 🤔 up to 5000-8000$ monthly at senior positions is not bad at all. 😅

there is some difference between UI/UX designer and web designer though, but as far as i know they are supposed to be adjustent stuff that is probably done by same person

[stone nymph]

Does it involves lil coding?

[buoyant seal]

Sure. it involves almost no coding.
Just using Figma usually, and optionally very preferably knowing HTML/CSS stuff in order to operate Figma profficiently (it is web designing after all)

[stone nymph]

I see.

We can even take design inspiration from other sites so i think learning web designing is lot less tome consuming than development imo

[gritty rivet]

Maybe... It also tends to pay slightly less. But it requires some very different skills and so it's really your own interests and talents that should lead your decision.

[buoyant seal]

Ask yourself, can you work with dedication for 3-6 years and further?

At the start salary will be crappy

But if u will work with dedication and reach the level designing stuff for companies as a full time senior person (which u potentially can be after 5 years for example), then u could earn a good amount.

At the end of a day it is question if u like it or not. Any job is heaven every day if u like it, and hell if don't

[stone nymph]

What kind of skills do i need

[light lava]

why am i muted when i join vc

?

[regal axle]

!voice

[inner wren]

Voice verification

Can’t talk in voice chat? Check out #voice-verification to get access. The criteria for verifying are specified there.

[buoyant seal]

https://www.amazon.com/Designing-Interfaces-Patterns-Effective-Interaction/dp/1492051969
https://bootcamp.uxdesign.cc/5-oreilly-books-to-boost-your-ux-product-design-career-228a466baf9f
U could read those books. They should be containing answers.

Basically u require usually

• Figma wielding
• Some photoshop/drawing instruments a bit.
• Sense of art trained
• Sense of guessing user psychology (books above should be containing answers to learn this stuff probably)
• Html/CSS to learn at minimum level (Head First HTML css should be enough probably)
  • Could be nice learning basic frontend skills in general eventually
• Communicating skills with product owners.
  • Gathering requirements. (there are excellent books for this too 😊 )

Highly likely this position could be often asked for working On site.
So potentially it would be beneficial to be ready for relocations

[buoyant seal]

@stone nymph due to the position being artistic in nature, u would be certainly required having visual portfolio 😅

[buoyant seal]

and most importantly u need experience of working for companies for many many years 😅
building large products and improving them on a full time work.
For this stuff and learning all other stuff, people could be paying good money

Without job experience of building real products and acquried skills, payment for this job can be not really different from getting paid for flipping burgers (or less)

[vapid jay]

Türkiye yaşasın ırkımız

[grizzled ibex]

I'm not sure if this is the right channel, but I was getting stuck to incrase the accuracy for my training model

[hearty island]

please do your best to stick to english in this server 🙂

[grizzled ibex]

if someone has experience to increaes the accuracy before, I'd love to talk more details

[vapid jay]

Yes : )

[hearty island]

hey, i would try #data-science-and-ml

[white relic]

Based on your post in the other channel, I'm guessing you want to hire someone. There's no place on this server for that but there are a couple of links in the description of this channel that you might find useful

[vapid jay]

I am a Turk and I found out that I like it, the type of software is py, I don't know if you found administrators on this server or direct sayips, but please do it in Turkish pls 🤲 @rare sand : ) : / : \ :- pls

[grizzled ibex]

thank you for letting me know! I'll take a look at it

[vapid jay]

Does anybody here work full time as a developer? I'd like to ask some questions :)

[true harness]

just ask them

[vapid jay]

well for school I'm supposed to interview someone who already has a career that I want to pursue
I didn't want to spam the channel so I thought I'd ask a few interview questions to whoever is down for it over DM

[true harness]

just ask them here

[vapid jay]

alr then

What was your dream job when you were in high school? Is it similar to the job you have now?

Do you think the way your life has played out so far is similar to what you had planned in your mind during your high school years?

What was your journey like, from graduating high school to the careeer you have now? More specifically, what was your first job like, and what other jobs outside of your current one have you had?

Did you have post-secondary education, and if so how useful was it in getting your current job?

What are some of the biggest challenges/hard moments you’ve had?

What do you do in a day of work, or some responsibilities you have?

The tech industry is changing all the time, so what are some of those changes you experienced throughout your career?

What do you think are the most important traits or skills (including transferable skills) for people who are/will be working in this field? And what are some that were the most helpful to you?
Any other factors (i.e. connections to other ppl) that were helpful?

Any advice for students planning their future, especially ppl who want to work in the tech industry?

[gray iris]

Hello, what are the most used applications of Python in full-time job? Do I need to know Data Science (AI/ML, Pandas, NumPy) to get a most jobs with Python?

[ivory venture]

Hello,
I hope this message finds you in good spirits. My name is Jason McPherson, and I'm a beginner programmer eager to transform my life through programming and online entrepreneurship.
Despite facing unique challenges, I've dedicated substantial time to self-teaching programming and now aim to elevate my skills. I am motivated to create a positive future for myself, and my current mission involves establishing an online school powered by AI.
I firmly believe in the transformative power of technology in education and aspire to make a meaningful impact through online learning. As I navigate this exciting path, I am seeking the guidance of a mentor who can offer insights, advice, and support.
Whether you're an experienced programmer, entrepreneur, or possess expertise in AI, I would greatly value the opportunity to connect with you. I believe that your mentorship could significantly contribute to both my personal growth and the success of the online school project.
What makes this mentorship unique is the potential for a mutually beneficial relationship. The skills I acquire on this journey can be leveraged for your projects as well. I am committed to a collaborative approach, and I envision our mentorship extending beyond my personal development to positively impact your endeavors.
My schedule is flexible, and I am committed to investing the effort required to learn and grow. If you are open to sharing your knowledge and helping me on this journey, please reach out. Your mentorship will not only make a significant impact on my life but will also contribute to the success of the online school project I am deeply passionate about.
Thank you for considering this request, and I look forward to the possibility of connecting with a mentor who can guide me on this exciting journey.
Best regards,
Jason McPherson

[deft knot]

Maybe pytorch ,pandas, seaborn, matplotlib, request

[brazen island]

There's many jobs in Python that are not data science whatsoever. It's a fantastic choice for say backend web development as well.

[vapid jay]

I know this is a lot of questions but if any full time dev/software engineer etc could answer these i'd really appreciate it 🙏

[near remnant]

Would you guys accept a job offer from a startup if it doesn't have a LinkedIn page?

[true harness]

surely there are more pertinent questions to be asking

[fringe sphinx]

Perfectly normal for companies to not have a LinkedIn page. Or is it? My last company and current didn’t.

[summer roost]

I didn't even know companies can have LinkedIn pages

[stone nymph]

In tired of learning how to code

Im thinking to learn web designing

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, nothing I'd ever visit tho, ie: https://www.linkedin.com/company/bloomberg/

[summer roost]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[smoky quest]

It's useful when digging into a company, if it's legit, picking up (or not), and some rough info on employees and their background

[smoky quest]

Hi and welcome!
Feel free to ask questions

[inland island]

hello i need help

how to print GMT time in python

[smoky quest]

Hi and welcome!
This is #career-advice and as such, you are asking in the wrong place.
Check out #❓｜how-to-get-help or try #python-discussion

[inland island]

thank u so much

[restive seal]

Hey 👋

[ivory venture]

@near remnant I would if I believed in the company and what its doing however know you your value and request a percentage of the bussiness this makes it to where can easily become a millionaire

[restive seal]

Django software codes and the Json file and I have to start

👍👀

You are not going

[near remnant]

Im asking this because I've got an offer from a startup and they don't have a LinkedIn page. The salary would be insanely good, full remote and the lead dev was a lead dev at a FAANG company. So it is really good but its weird that they dont have a LinkedIn page, dont know what to put on my linkedin profile then. Resume is fine, because I can just put the experience on.

[restive seal]

Go file tomorrow
NBA

[dense mesa]

Sounds like a scam potentially

[smoky quest]

could be an early stage startup

[hidden bloom]

they asked "can i ask if it would be a dealbreaker should we unable to increase our offer?" - well the answer is no it would not be but if i say that i feel like they wont even consider raising it lol? ig im forced to say no lol

[fringe sphinx]

You could decline to answer: “I haven’t made a decision yet”

[keen estuary]

how to sell your software

[hidden bloom]

i dont want them to rescind the offer but rn they seem to be considering it even if they r lying they said 'they will talk to the relevant ppl' and current salary is 'a flat rate that the offer all our placement students but they will get back to me asap'

[fringe sphinx]

Well, at this point: they could raise, they could stay, or they could rescind. Rescind seems -very- unlikely in this type of situation, I’d bet either they stay or maybe a token raise. It’s all up to you: there’s no wrong answer.

[hidden bloom]

should i say "while its not a definite dealbreaker it definitely factors into my decision?" ughhh i dont want them to take it away tho

[fringe sphinx]

Yup, that’s a non-committal response.

[near remnant]

How? It's an early stage startup and the product is not even public yet. Well anyways, it seems weird to me as well. I mean I could put "Freelancer" in linkedin while working there or something like that idk ☠️

[near remnant]

Maybe I should not accept it im not sure

[quaint flower]

hi newbie here. is there anyone who can help me just to name me the things i will need to learn and google it to do my idea please?

[smoky quest]

That already exists and it's free:
https://automatetheboringstuff.com/

In terms of career, a CS degree will be the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[quaint flower]

Thank you. I want to build a calendar with fefw extra features. i am a photographer. i want 1: logo top two buttons -new booking - edit bookings- i want to call out the next session

[flint epoch]

it will not be a deal breaker for us: however I do have other options I am looking at as well.

[vapid jay]

Would learning computer science help with learning cybersecurity?

Oh nevermind

[latent eagle]

Hi. Which one should I go for?

My reason for learning is I am an aspiring data analyst and mainly to learn my first programming language.

[obtuse apex]

#2 sounds more useful

[latent eagle]

thank you

[gritty rivet]

I've heard good things about #2 (Yu's 100 Days) , but it also sounds quite challenging for beginners. Good luck!

[violet magnet]

How much does attending a bootcamp help you if you already know everything they are going to teach.

well, if they use different technologies, you will learn more things but it wont be the first time so significantly easier

[latent eagle]

from the requirements it says no experience required so im hopeful, thanks for this

anyway idk if this is the right channel or discord to ask but I wanna learn my first programming language and im still contemplating between python and c#. I was told both is good to start with but I wanna hear your opinion if its fine. TYIA!

[violet magnet]

Do you think its more or less stressful to be a system admin or a fullstack engineer? Im guessing it depends on the company and project.

[fringe sphinx]

Unsurprisingly, I’d vote Python. https://m-cacm.acm.org/blogs/blog-cacm/176450-python-is-now-the-most-popular-introductory-teaching-language-at-top-us-universities/fulltext

[violet magnet]

python gets you started quickly. You're less likely to back out with feelings of "This is too hard for me" imo.

[latent eagle]

I am actually inclined on learning python first since udemy offers more comprehensive python course while udemy has none for c#

[buoyant seal]

C# has a certain level of freedom to build complex stuff without stress on a brain or long debugging.
It has a safety net(static typing), that makes all stuff super.
At the cost of needing to write more verbous code.
C# last 5 years made itself Linux usable, and I am tempting to learn it to further level, but too much ties to Windows and 30gb sized Visual Studio makes me choosing Java to learn.

Python is infinity flexible to write scripting easily fast, and having certain access to full freedom in architecture. This freedom and lack of safety net of static types severely limits ability to write some quality software.
Also performance and memory restrictions of python, severally limiting what u can use python for easily too.
Python is great for quick scripting and very quick web development essentially. Good for novices, because easier to learn depth of unit testing.
And python ecosystem is rich to boilerplate everything

[buoyant seal]

If u want being productive for work soon, choose python.
If u a still student, I would recommend c# more (or preferably looking towards Java/Kotlin direction instead)

[latent eagle]

well i recently just graduated and got into data analytics so going python would be upskilling and c# as reskilling. But i doubt junior da requires python

[latent eagle]

Thanks for this. I might just go learn python first then c# as my 2nd. I heard its a good path

[buoyant seal]

It is a good looking direction.
Python will make u productive faster.
And then eventually u could try to reach the limits of python code writing by utilizing strict mypy/Pyright stuff. Which will require from u learning some real static typed language like c# to understand properly.

People commonly pair to python golang though for career backend purposes at least
And for data analysis purposes Java can be more in demand second language than c# too, because Java has all its data engineering ecosystem (although some companies start new projects in Golang as replacement to Java too)

[latent eagle]

Thanks alot! This helped clearing my mind so much

[buoyant seal]

Anyway, I will probably recommend then as first language python, then to try golang, then whatever u choose next 🙂

Golang does have dev comfort higher than its comparable competitors (c#, Java). Makes it really nice to know.

[violet magnet]

I applied for a job last night and the biggest project of the portfolio was down all day haha. I made it so that issue wont happen again tho

[brazen island]

The second one. I audited both and got the second one for someone as a gift.

[buoyant seal]

!rule 6 can u delete this msg please 😊 literally against server rules.

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

[hardy shore]

Could I get neck and hand tattoos are not have to worry about it damaging job interviews in software engineering/development?

[dense mesa]

No

[violet magnet]

how much value will this add to resume https://www.volunteermatch.org/search/opp3296026.jsp

[dense mesa]

Potentially some but it's not as valuable as other experience

[violet magnet]

From no experience perspective, with several good projects.

[dense mesa]

It's not about a specific project itself but what that project teaches you

[violet magnet]

indeed. I'm considering adding better test coverage to the projects just so i can say they are tested on paper tbh.

is this a bad social media account to have while applying for a job? Its not advertised byt if person chose to go down the doxx rabbit hole they could find it

the content of the posts is probably more important I guess

It's not terrible, mostly talking about tech but id prefer a hiring person not look at it tbh

it helps that my posts delete themselves at a certain age i guess

okay this is a good question

are you allowed to talk about the job search on social media? is it too likely you will say something weird?

[smoky quest]

no one will care about your social media presence unless you are a super edgy incel or hold some weird views or are part of some extremist movement

[violet magnet]

right

I somewhat feel like its possible to have a guilty by association thing going on when you're on Mastodon. There's a lot of tech and FOSS nerds on there. But there is just as many people that scream about their politics all day.

[smoky quest]

so you are saying that had you been on twitter, people would think you have the same views as Elon Musk? Had you been on facebook, you would espouse Zuckerberg views?

[violet magnet]

I guess not. But I definitely judge users of Mastodon by which instance they are on, which is not something corporate social media has.

[smoky quest]

What does that make of someone being on discord?

[smoky quest]

well, don't create your mastodon account on naziftw.org

[violet magnet]

for instance, there is hackers.town there is also this instance that its admin was under seige by the FBI (https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2023/07/fbi-seizure-mastodon-server-wakeup-call-fediverse-users-and-hosts-protect-their).

On Mastodon, the right wing servers are obviously bad for a job. But there are also left wing ones that are filled with people that I would argue you would not want to be assoicated with, even if you agree with 90% of the other tame users, a 10% of wackos is tolerated. And the exact number varies across instancess

It usually has more to do with admin negligence than anything

[smoky quest]

shit rolls downhill

[violet magnet]

My instance is run by people that work in infosec and go to defcon, and probably if not for the connections it brings me to specific people in that field, i wouldnt have it.

[smoky quest]

so how would that reflect badly on you?

[violet magnet]

I dont think it does unless the person wants to be biased which people do.

in any case, this person would have to spend a lot of time on me to find this

and I will be honored that they got that far :P

[smoky quest]

sounds like a bit extreme on its own to be biased against infosec

[jade sphinx]

im 16. once ive learned python to a basic job level, and a couple other languages, is it easy enough to get an online remote job to make another $300/week? (usd) reply if answering thanks

[smoky quest]

it will be difficult.
A CS degree is the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities

[violet magnet]

in the worst case scenario, id be thinking about them loading up the site and looking at what people are talking about and there is a lot of bickering about some Richard Stallman being x, y, z. You cant control people, and those platforms draw people that have weird fringe views. You get used to ignoring them to use the service.

[smoky quest]

you are way overthinking it.
No one will care

[violet magnet]

that i agree with

[jade sphinx]

could i just freelance

[smoky quest]

you could, but it will be difficult

[jade sphinx]

so why am i learning how to program if i cant make money with it

[smoky quest]

I don't know why you are learning how to program

[jade sphinx]

is it all good to learn program before college then i know what i am doing then get a cs degree then boom im a millianaire?

@smoky quest

[violet magnet]

I dont think its that simple but if you like programming in high school and get good at it and are step ahead of others around you, give it a shot.

[smoky quest]

the more you know, the easier it will be

[jade sphinx]

ok so i if i take the classes related to cs and programming then go to uni then i get a job and then i make 6 figs a year

[smoky quest]

But remember that it's not the end in itself. Programming is like a tool. What matters is not the screwdriver, but what you can do with it

[jade sphinx]

ok thanks

[smoky quest]

If you are in the USA, sure, with a CS degree

[jade sphinx]

well im not

[tight crow]

Where should I start learning python I'm not a beginner

[smoky quest]

then probably not

[jade sphinx]

but idk what is the equivialent in new zelanad it probably the same

[smoky quest]

USA pays higher than most countries.

[jade sphinx]

ok well yeah new zelaand isnt the place to be cause it shitty pay on everything and cost of living so i will probably move somewhere that will accept me so i can get into that kinda thing

[smoky quest]

CS degrees are helpful as well to get access to more visas if you want to emigrate

And yes, the place to be in the world is the silicon valley in the USA

[jade sphinx]

ok what is the average salary for a junior software developer?

[smoky quest]

you can check levels.fyi

[jade sphinx]

ok ill chekc it out

so is it true uber pays 174-194 / year for software engineers

[smoky quest]

depends on the experience and skills

[stone nymph]

Is it not recommended to learn dsa in python?

[smoky quest]

dsa is useful regardless of the language

[stone nymph]

Ppl say in java or c++ i will understand dsa better

[smoky quest]

dsa isn't specific to a language

[stone nymph]

Yeah but i heard ppl saying python makes it easier with those libraries n what not

[smoky quest]

and how it's a problem?

[stone nymph]

Idk im a beginner .

[smoky quest]

it's not a problem

[stone nymph]

Thanks mate

[smoky quest]

it means you don't have to worry about low level details and can focus on dsa

[stone nymph]

Yeaa.
And java and c++ feel harder to me

Im learning html css and js along with python

[buoyant seal]

there is some impact on using language with pointers vs without pointers.
with language having pointers u'll get Data structures, read/write accesses, memory allocations aspects of Data Structures and Algorithms complexities at a more full capacity.
in python at least, those aspects memory allocating aspects are pretty much obfuscated.
C++, C#, golang do have means for memory control.
Java memory control is a bit obfuscated i guess too, probably not ideal choice

[violet magnet]

Do you think if i was rejected in under 24 hours on the weekend that its very unlikely a human looked at the resume?

[violet magnet]

I have another question...

Do I just need to accept that its going to be necessary to make accounts all over the internet with 20 billion job search sites to get a job? Or should I just ignore postings that are not on very reputable service?

Sometimes I get sent to one job search site that sends me to another job search site and the level of shadyness to them is very apparent. Then they start spamming me heavily with noise.

I feel like at some point if the company cant just accept my resume without an annoying middle man, why.

[violet magnet]

I somewhat feel like leaving my phone number off the resume is a good call, since these middle man sites are invariably going to send spam to any information i give them

[regal axle]

What position did you apply for? It’s impossible to say if a person looked at it. I’m more surprised you got a rejection notice. Those are rare. They normally just ghost you. Also, what country are you in?

[violet magnet]

usa, it was a full stack engineer position

[regal axle]

Most major companies have a job board on their site. So you can apply directly. They also post on these other random sites. But direct application is good, so you can use these middle man websites to search and then apply on the companies website if you don’t trust a given site

[violet magnet]

That is what I did which worked well for several postings. But sometimes I find the postings on their careers section do not match exactly what is on some job search site.

[gritty rivet]

Correct. If a company makes it difficult to apply then all else being equal, don't bother. It's only worth it if the job is an exceptionally good fit and/or you know people on the inside but the red tape is required anyway

[half aurora]

I had to full send it with resume's and accounts. like 800 applications over the course of 6 months. had a total of 3 reach out for interview. Be strong my friend.

also about halfway through I started to ignore the ones where I had to basically send a resume, then manually input the infomation on my resume in another application portion of the job posting. was taking like a hour to fill out 1 app and for effeciency sake I just stopped that route.

[hearty island]

most commonly i apply on workday, greenhouse, ADP, etc.

[violet magnet]

Yeah im trying to flip off the switch where i think of it as improving my life and instead think of it like sending a message on dating app. Just try and try and ignore the failure

[hearty island]

you learn to move on

[gritty rivet]

Right. When the job market was good, I got ghosted on nearly 95% of my job applications. But it's really not a problem if you just keep moving