career-advice

[violet magnet]

but basically anything with django/pytyhon, react/javascript, nginx, linux I can do

docker

postgres, celery, rabbitmq, a lot of stuff

[vapid jay]

I think if you have nothing on your resume, a certification can be useful, but in general I've seen that people recommend instead working on projects

[violet magnet]

Well I definitely already have projects. Ive just never applied for a job before where... the people would not be intersted in what I currenty do for a living at all.

[vapid jay]

what kind of projects have you done?

[violet magnet]

https://neorings.org is my site. I worked on it several months and launched it a weeks ago. It has a handful of new users. It's a django react app that is dockerized and deployed.

I have a pretty unprofessional page that talks about other projects, https://divsel.neocities.org

[vapid jay]

what's its intended application?

[violet magnet]

it's a webring service, which is a concept of the 90s Internet that connected pre-social media webpages. The target audience are users of the website neocities.org, which is a hosting platform targeting teenagers who are learning web dev through tech nostalgia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webring

[vapid jay]

well it sounds like a good project. you should keep making more, with a view to building a portfolio with a unified theme that may interest certain employers

[violet magnet]

I also have stuff like this https://divsel.neocities.org/xp/ (fake operaitng system in react)
https://divsel.neocities.org/diction/portable (portable in app dictionary for webpage)

I'm not sure businesses would ever be interestted in my specific projects lol, but they demonstrate I can do things like... set up subscription payments using stripe api.

[white relic]

This sounds quite cool and I doubt having a certificate would add any substance to your résumé if this is on there already.

A person reviewing your résumé won't necessarily care about your projects as projects, but about your skills they demonstrate. And this is a neat project that demonstrates several

[violet magnet]

yeah so maybe a breakdown of all the technologies and what skills went into them

[harsh remnant]

Usually at what time of month do summer 2024 internships applications open

[stable pulsar]

Hello. I start learning Python today. I have plan to become a professional Python Developer. I downloaded SoloLearn from playstore and started from basics. Any advice which will be helpful for my learning?

[violet magnet]

dont give up.

[stable pulsar]

Any platform, mobile app or web where I can find some beginning level assignments, challenges, practice projects?

[harsh river]

!kindling

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[pine sleet]

I believe they're mostly done

There might be another wave come January, though

[white relic]

Really just depends on the company/internship. Many are already open, some have already closed, some might not be open yet.

The more competitive ones (probably) close early because they get more applicants than they need

[turbid bobcat]

I asked gpt4 for alternative names for dynamic programming. And all of them are better than the original. My favorite: recursive memoization.

[haughty slate]

I'm looking at the roadmap for backend development and for the database sections, specifically the NoSQL databases, should I try to learn one of each type or should I just cover 1-2, since I mostly only see a couple even mentioned on the job listings I've browsed

[buoyant seal]

Read this one later, this book is explicitly telling about career path of Software Architect

Software architecture is encompassing all aspects of made choices regarding software qualities/attributes.

OOP is one of such fundamental brick choices, most commonly used. Each language does have other than OOP paradigms inclusions though (some more, some less). During some libraries usage, u may be switching to other concepts.
ORM libs are for example declarative
Or IaC stuff, like Pulumi is shining example of declarativeness as well

[hard oasis]

does anyone want any script im pretty sure i can make any script but if its a script for viruses or something harmful i can make it but i wont

[grand jewel]

Hey, i have made a github portfolio with a list of Python Flask backend projects i am going to complete (so far i have only completed 1) will this be enough to get a job as a backend developer? https://github.com/JWebster-Colby

[buoyant seal]

1. will this be enough to get a job as a backend developer?
   depends on your other resume, educational background and learned skills.

https://github.com/JWebster-Colby
i would like to mention that all those projects are very... a bit hallow / online course / generic in nature
True projects come from your heart and have some kind of originaility in them
Also true projects are made with usefulness for users and acquire at least 1-2 or more users which need it
They are supposed to tackle some interesting problem and have an approach which is different from others

[grand jewel]

Well i dont really have an educational background, and i am predominantly a self taught developer. I choose them project because i though that they demonstrated a good foundation in backend development. What projects would you recommend?

[buoyant seal]

it depends on your interests, environment and needs. I can provide examples i pursue and follow

• i played Freelancer Discovery game, it had discord bot which broke.

  • https://github.com/darklab8/darklab_darkbot i made my own to track players, bases, forum posts
  • it acquired in result constant user base, because players need it.

• i was interested in writing better Git commits and generating changelogs out of them

  • i made autogit tool https://github.com/darklab8/darklab_autogit
  • using all the time to write nicer commits and generate changelogs for releases now

thinking as next projects possibly next things

• Wishing to build game data navigating tool for Freelancer. i have come across perfect language/framework to make it in a web way (WASM frontend in a static compiled language instead of js/ts, yay!)
  • players should appreciate easy online accessability and extra available data in it
• Wishing to make tool organizer/scheduler for myself, with daily tasks to do, with tracking tv-series i watch, books i read, taxes i need to pay and etc.
  • I literally just need it. wishing something that will be offline and customized 100% to my needs
• Wishing to develop minecraft mods (because i am just huge fan of it)
• ergh, interested to evaluate Dagger CI tool and if it will be not fitting my expectations exactly, probably developing my own version. Because it is too cool thing to have. (i am just also in DevOps stuff)

each this project has either external users, or at least i just need for my own daily life

u would find that the least is rather short in comparison to yours, i have for showcase only two projects... but the value is just greater? Quality over quantity is important.

you will be pretty much evaluated based on your best available project, not their quantity. Or at least that is how i usually evaluate portfolios of candidates

mind you, i am backend developer at the same time
But projects do not have to be Backend projects in order to show your programming skills 😉
I do plan my projects around something web related though as much as possible though, but not obligating myself towards it, because the first thing goes around what is needed

[grand jewel]

should i also showcase my personal projects like: https://github.com/00-Python/AI-Debug/ on that github?

[buoyant seal]

well, that has at least your spirit.
and nice presentation in readme.
much better to present.

i am having only conflicts from nature of your project.
i am kind of ultra biased against any project having OpenAI in it 🤔
so i have very conflicting opinion of the project in result.
On another hand it has the positive signs i am looking for, on another hand my personal one of the most... disliked subjects in the world 😅

[grand jewel]

Well that is kinda good feedback hahaha, is it AI in general you dislike or just OpenAI

[buoyant seal]

somewhat difficult question to answer:

• I can admire hard work of data scientists in https://www.kaggle.com/ competions and articles.
• i can admire made projects that bring useful some stuff working with images, or generate content for games or smth
• i can admire projects usable in offline way, neutral network executable locally.

At your project i have two major problems that make me disliking it.

• You have dependency on OpenAI. your project will be rendered not working without it. And it is proprietary online only service, there is literally no possibility to utilize your project once they take their servers/service down.

• You utilize it for developer text generative purposes.

  • Nature of ChatGPT is essentially bullshit generator https://www.cst.cam.ac.uk/blog/afb21/oops-we-automated-bullshit
  • Neural network give answer only of a convincing illusion of an answer, u need to fact check everything for validity
  • Even if u received correct answer, there is no even remote assurance if it is the best answer or it is greedy-crutchy-worst-programmer kind of advice answer.
  • So essentially in my opinion you are using it for subject that facilitates potential waste of developer's time and worst practices. (and potentially screwing up people that could be developers into people being less than ones)
  • I think there should be generative text useful places where it is applicable, but current area definitely does not looks like to me. Sceptical in general to usability of AI in text generating purposes due to bullshit generating problem.
  • P.S. also i am developer with perfectionist streak/obsession. I just hate everything that facilitates going in opposite direction from reaching perfection in my opinion. I could accept it if it had some advantages to balance its disadvantages, but current thing is not having anything to balance it. i can hardly find any advantages, it is broken by design of using bullshit generator for wrong purposes.

[stable pulsar]

Can someone guide me through different career paths in Python. Web Development, Software Development, Game Development etc. I searched on YouTube, every youtubers have different approach, method, applications and tools they are working and teaching. I'm getting confused which one to pick... ☹️ Who do I pick to watch...

[hidden bloom]

this is for some cyber part time role thing for students - i missed the interview, i thot it was for today at 11am, it was for yesterday. the event booking system allowed me to create another interview and i did, but im not sure if im allowed to do this lol? i got a confirmation email and teams meeting and eveyrthing - but from my understanding its all just an automated system not monitered by someone. Should i email the programme people and ask if it is okay for me to do this? and apologise for missing the original interview... or shld i just hope i fly under the radar pretend like nothing happene d- and as tho i did not miss the original interview? its a big programme, so idk if the other person who was meant to be in that interviewer striked me down or took my name out the system or something? if i email them now they will deffo know my mistake..

[lapis wind]

I would probably contact them first...

It will look worse if you miss the original interview, and then try to act like you didn't if someone notices.

[true harness]

if you were scheduled yesterday and you didn't show up, I'm not sure how you plan on pretending that didn't happen

[lapis wind]

If I was the interviewer, I would be more annoyed by the attempt to hide it / not acknowledge it than the actual not turning up 😅

[gritty rivet]

Pick whatever engages you and keeps you learning. It doesn't matter which of those you focus on. You literally don't need to choose. As long as you keep coding and building stuff your learning will pay off with persistence.

It's not clear where you are on your overall career journey but I have to say it: be aware that for all those fields if you're trying to avoid a degree you're making it difficult. Get a degree.

[hearty island]

i'm not sure if this really aligns with what i wanna do. sounds a bit HRish

[toxic kindle]

hey guys should i use the newest pythons version?

[fringe sphinx]

Could you ask over in #python-discussion , this channel is for career related stuff

[hearty island]

but the prospect of working for an org like this is very enticing. i got a buddy who works at jpmc and he said the benefits are incredible

[fringe sphinx]

JPMC is ridiculously massive. I have a few friends there, a lot of bureaucracy, but they like their jobs.

[hearty island]

i keep thinking ||REDACTED|| will swoop in with an offer before anyone else with how fast they've been moving

idk what's gonna happen, tbh.

[vapid jay]

yo

[hidden bloom]

do most companies not actually send out rejection letters? i am in the final final stage - me vs. another guy.. but idt i got the role. and i think maybe the company is ghosting me? idk. do they have teh decency to let me know if i got it or not? should i email them next week or give it time and not be annoying?

[gritty rivet]

No, the vast majority of job applications will never get a response of any kind. If you're really interested there's no harm in following up after a while, but getting ghosted is pretty normal

[hearty island]

it's normal to get ghosted

[true harness]

getting ghosted after being interviewed is a bit abnormal in my experience

[vagrant thistle]

hello

[jagged oak]

What is the best way to recruit devs for the early stage of a start-up?

[hearty island]

ideally, you shouldn't be getting ghossted after an interview

[jagged oak]

when did the last phase begin?

[unreal stream]

Are getting jobs in USA really that hard? In germany it is makeable to get a job only with knowledge

[jagged oak]

what kinda job u talking about exactly sezzooo?

[unreal stream]

Like jobs specific in science, technology, engeneering etc.

[jagged oak]

bc I am living in germany and the specific jobs I wanna do are not presented on a silver plate, but there are a lot of it jobs very easy to get, this much is true

[unreal stream]

Oh, can you speak german?

[jagged oak]

yes

[unreal stream]

Sag das doch gleich haha, um welchen Job geht es?

[jagged oak]

Ich wollte mit KI und Robotik zu tun haben, bin Junior Python developer und Data Scientist, habe zuvor ein Physik Studium angefangen aber dies ist nun pausiert. Nun bin ich dabei ein Data Providing IT Start Up zu gründen, bereite gerade die Demoversion vor, welche bald evaluiert wird, danach gibt es Investoren-Talks.

Aber die Kompetenzen in Robotik und KI sind mir sehr wichtig, weswegen ich da gern gearbeitet hätte, aber das war nicht direkt von Erfolg gekrönt. Aber es gibt massig andere Jobs im IT Bereich die leicht zugänglich sind, das stimmt.

[analog sun]

!rule 4 please while on the server

[inner wren]

Rules

4. Use English to the best of your ability. Be polite if someone speaks English imperfectly.

[jagged oak]

alright, my bad

"I wanted to work with AI and robotics, am a junior Python developer and data scientist. I started studying physics before, but it's currently on hold. Now, I'm in the process of founding a data-providing IT startup. I'm preparing the demo version, which will soon be evaluated, followed by discussions with investors.

Although working in robotics and AI was my initial preference, it wasn't directly successful. However, there are plenty of other jobs in the IT field that are easily accessible, that's true."

[unreal stream]

Why did you choose physic studies at first?

[jagged oak]

Passion. I only put it on hold, because of moving to another city ( hanover from bs ), because of the university being better. But I researched a lot about how to accumulate money and my ambition is much higher than to study physics in the university.

I want to be an independent researcher in physics, so I am now accumulating finances to start my own lab, for the research I already started.

I do not expect much from normal job opportunities, if you compare it to freelancing and being a business owner and such things. True freedom is all about time and resources, to manifest your ambition. Not to serve others, at least not for me.

So in the beginning I was too idealistic and had no clue what I am doing,but following my passion"^^.. then I formulated a plan 3 years ago and changed my life so far.

[unreal stream]

I think there should be a university which gives you the possibility to study KI-Engeneering. You know about the University in Paderborn? This is specific to Science, Robotics etc.

[jagged oak]

My focus will still remain within physics, AI and Robotics are just tools for my research that I need to become proficient in.

Thanks, I will look up their scripts.

[unreal stream]

Thats really good! You always should know what you wanna do in the future especially when you missed some time like me xD

[unreal stream]

Alright! And no problem, hope you find what you wanted.

[jagged oak]

Currently I am looking to recruit german devs for my start up, or at least english speaking guys in the EU that are very good at communicating.

Yeah I know how important time is. I utilize the principle of Ikigai for my goals / ambition. Thank you ^^

[unreal stream]

Try and give some presentations as example to a fair. You have to open up your business to new potentially devs 😉

[jagged oak]

I am going to give a presentation for evey potential employee that is looking for an opportunity to accompany me on this journey. But the schedule I have is very tight, so I might just hire some team from an agency first to help me build the full version and in the meanwhile I recruit a team that is going to stay and grow along with the company.

[sleek dove]

guys i am sorry i have a question, how can i know how many message left to be able to join voice chat, anyone knows?

[analog sun]

If you search for yourself, you should be able to see how many messages you have sent (12)

This is also off topic for this channel

[true harness]

it's not really possible to generalize across all of stem. i can speak about CS though. it's possible to succeed without formal education, but it's almost a necessity

[hearty island]

guys, i've been playing phone tag with a jpmc recruiter.. 😦

it's not going too hot

[dark fiber]

idk bout ur areas but in my area (a big big place for tech, Junior positions are slowly disappearing and mid levels are on the way out.

[hearty island]

i left two voicemails, no calls back after her initial voicemail yesterday

[gritty rivet]

@hidden bloom actually this is a good point, I kind of overlooked where you said "final stage"... That's pretty bad.

[quaint bison]

hello guys
hope you are fine
I have query related with question
if anyone can help me

[fringe sphinx]

If it’s a career question, ask here, start in #python-discussion if it’s Python related, else off-topic if not Python related

[quaint bison]

well more like it's dsa related

[hidden bloom]

the last time i had a virtual interview was this wednesday

[hidden bloom]

so i should wait a week until next wednesday i guess for a response?

[fringe sphinx]

You could ask in #python-discussion, or #algos-and-data-structs , or open a help thread #❓｜how-to-get-help . Generally, I’d say start in PyDis

[tawdry sable]

I need a internship in the UK,

there are not much for first year students, since i graduate 2026

[fringe pine]

A summer internship?

[vapid lodge]

Has anyone heard about Halcon software ?

[tawdry sable]

yes

[tawdry sable]

yea

I have applied to a bunch but alot of them rejected because of ' graduating in 2026'

i got some OA's but now its christmas i dont think ill get interviews now

@fringe pine unless you were gonna offer a referral or a internship

[fringe sphinx]

If anyone’s looking for portfolio items, saw on another server matplotlib has a collection of good first issues and are in the middle of a code sprint / would appreciate help: https://github.com/matplotlib/matplotlib/labels/Good first issue

(Not an ad, genuinely think this is the kind of work that looks good on a resume)

[halcyon obsidian]

?

[glad steeple]

Hi.

[gritty stirrup]

Hi

[gritty rivet]

There's no hard rule. What expectation did they set when you last spoke to them? Did you already thank them after that last interview? Giving them a week in general sounds fine

[harsh remnant]

What if I have no experience. I've taken computer science 11 and 12 in high school, and I did a hackathon at my college. That's about it. This is my first semester at my college straight out of high school. What do I even put as my experience? I've played soccer before, I was very athletic, so I was a soccer coach for kids a few months, but that is not even relevant at all.

[pine sleet]

What sort of stuff are you applying for? Are you applying for internships?

[harsh remnant]

Yes

[gritty rivet]

Zero paid work experience? It doesn't have to be anything technical to be worth including at your stage.

Feel free to show us redacted screenshots, it's hard to give much resume advice in the abstract

[solar garden]

I'm a first-year high schooler, I want to pursue a career in robotics.What skills do i need to learn and how do i become one

i'm currently learning python all though i'm still not that good with it(no prior knowledge of programming)

[harsh remnant]

Then I should just include anything related to computer science right? My highschool and stuff? Is that a good idea? Or should I just include my soccer coach job I had 💀

[harsh remnant]

Take the computer science classes, any robotic classes and also join clubs like robotics club and the computer science club, I’m sure you guys have those. Try to become a leader in those clubs. Also most importantly, aim your courses for your desired university/faculty and get good grades. Do projects on your free time, and volunteer as well.

[solar garden]

u mean high school clubs?

[harsh remnant]

Yes

Hackathons would be good too

[solar garden]

in macedonia we have nothing like that

no clubs at all

[harsh remnant]

Interesting so you guys don’t have high school clubs?

[solar garden]

nope not even collage...Macedonia isn't the most advanced country in any aspect in fact one of the worst in Europe

[harsh remnant]

Would it be possible if you asked your school to create one would they allow u

[solar garden]

no clubs aren't a thing in macedonia

[vapid jay]

Start your own

[solar garden]

robotics isn't popular in macedonia either

a club wouldn't work even because no one would be interested

[karmic loom]

Or it could help spark an interest.

[solar garden]

id even know how that would work

no way to promote such a thing

[karmic loom]

Application of it to regionally-applicable tasks.

[solar garden]

what execly does that mean?

[karmic loom]

Applying robotics to what needs doing in the area.

[solar garden]

yea but id even know what skillset i need for robotics and why

[split grove]

Im trying to get into coding. I want to do this casually, but it may become an interest of mine, what would you recommend for learning python?

[barren crater]

hi

[lusty kestrel]

Hi! Has anyone here studied physical engineering or a related field?

_

[pine sleet]

!res

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[vapid jay]

Switching from Application Support to Development. Have experiencing with lots of SQL, can write full stack CRUD apps with Django/Python, some AWS experience, various scripting languages and Linux experience. Any advice for making the full switch?

[turbid bobcat]

Ok apparently this ad google made is completely fake. They make it look like the input is a real time video feed and output is real time voice responses. But it's just the prompting you'd do with chat gpt4.

[gritty rivet]

Get feedback on your resume and portfolio, then start networking and applying for jobs. AWS certifications can help.

You can anonymize screenshots of your resume and send them directly here to the channel

[gritty rivet]

It's probably worth including the soccer coaching job if that's your only paid work experience

[humble warren]

One message removed from a suspended account.

[turbid bobcat]

Physics here

[vapid jay]

Thank you for the feedback. Additionally, suggestions on the following?

• what is a good benchmark for number or quality of portfolio items?
• I have the AWS Practitioner. Which one next (Solutions Architect, Developer?) ?

[lusty kestrel]

And you work?

[turbid bobcat]

yes, in between jobs right now but I have worked as a software engineer and as an ML engineer, sometimes switching between the two within the same role (startup work)

[lusty kestrel]

ooh interesting, could you give me an example of what you do?

specific

[turbid bobcat]

uhm sure, a lot of times I'll take an open source model that does a specific task (like image matting), I'll fine tune it for the use case and then wrap it using fastapi and deploy it on a gpu machine using docker and docker compose, I'll usually code a CI/CD pipeline that does all this automatically

[gritty rivet]

The only benchmark is getting hired. A simple CRUD project with good documentation, tests, etc. can be enough for the right person and role.

For the certs, just do whichever fits your interests better. Some people do both Associates. Each level (Practioner to Associate to Professional) is significantly weightier.

[gritty rivet]

#❓｜how-to-get-help

[lusty kestrel]

mmj complicated to understand but thanks for giving me the example, then you don't use physical engineering

[turbid bobcat]

well yeah, there's no physics, but it's by choice. I do use the mathematics and the modeling skills you get with a physics degree

[vapid jay]

Got it. Really appreciate your help and feedback. I feel I am on the right track and that is good encouragement and validation for my efforts thus far. Wishing you all the best!

[lusty kestrel]

well then maybe if you had to choose you would lean more towards software engineering

I was asking if there were physical engineers because I have doubts about how it is applied in a work environment...

[turbid bobcat]

oh, my understanding is that you can go the simulation route, so for example monte carlo simulations of particle transport, or material simulation, or maybe more research oriented stuff like trying to get predictions out of modern physics. but I can't comment too much on it tbh as I didn't go that route

in general it's not uncommon to find people with physics or other STEM backgrounds in CS jobs, so your original question could be a bit misleading ahah

[lusty kestrel]

I get it, looks like you went a bit of a different route. Mind if I ask what careers you studied?I'm in this process 🫡

[turbid bobcat]

Uhm, the core of my education is physics, but I've also done arts, a tiny bit of medicine coursework, programming for medical applications, and have done a lot of simulation during my thesis.

Right now my main interest is AI, it is a fascinating blend of CS, mathematics and philosophy.

[lusty kestrel]

lol you have knowledge of very different things

And why did you want to study physics at the beginning? Sorry if there are a lot of questions, but I really want to know if it's really worth it, and I have more interests in software engineering.

[turbid bobcat]

I went into physics because I wanted to have some understanding of how the universe works and because it is a challenging subject.

I do wish I knew sooner that I had a passion for programming. And I do have some regrets, I wish I had taken better care of my health during college. But otherwise, for me, totally worth it.

[lusty kestrel]

Sure, that's the usual interest and I'm glad you found what you like 🫡

Thanks for answer everything 🫂

[violet magnet]

Should I be applying for positions that ask for a number of years experience that I dont have, even when I know the technologies they talk about?

are these kinds of things trustworthy, it seems like definitely not

[gritty rivet]

What "kinds of things"? Projects on Upwork? Does the hiring person have any reviews?

[gritty rivet]

Generally, yes, those numbers are not hard requirements a lot of the time

I would certainly make sure to work them into your resume in other ways of you can

[violet magnet]

yeah, and then... lets say someone is asking for a senior engineer and I have no professional experience but I have 5+ years of hobbist experience using their full stack, with working projects to prove it. Should I apply for that or would it be annoying that I have no juior experience first.

[white relic]

I would say, if you feel your experience (professional or otherwise) qualifies you for the position, you have nothing to lose by applying for it. It's up to them to judge your qualifications, if there is any ambiguity.

That doesn't mean you should apply to any position at all, even if you clearly do not meet the requirements. It's not a good use of your time to apply to jobs you have near zero chance of getting

Aside: I would not expect a "senior" title to apply to someone with only 5 years experience of any kind, unless they were really exemplary.

[stable pulsar]

Can you suggest a free mobile app where I can do python exercises and challenges?

[oak tide]

leetcode is a good website, but idk if there is an app

[fringe sphinx]

Codewars is good too. Ask over in #python-discussion , you’ll probably get more responses

[turbid bobcat]

That one looks a lot better than leetcode. I'm not finding a lot of non-sense in the problem statements. Some look genuinely interesting

https://www.codewars.com/kata/5a529cced8e145207e000010

This one also looks super cool: https://www.codewars.com/kata/5f9db4e2622f500033513a6a

[rugged tundra]

Howdy,

I am currently working as a front-end dev but am interested in transitioning into a data engineering role or similar. I am self-taught (no degree).

Would it be realistic to assume I could do self study to secure a data engineering role, just as I did to secure the dev role I have?

When I originally started learning to code, I happened to meet and chat with the CTO of a fairly successful company. It was this person who originally told me to move away from Python and into web dev as he told me his company would not hire a data engineer without a degree but do frequently hire web devs out of bootcamps. I followed the advice and it ultimately paid off as my life has improved drastically, but I still have the desire to work as a data engineer. Thanks.

[brazen island]

Does the company in question have a data engineering team? The easiest thing you can do in the short to medium term is perform well in your front-end tasks and ask him if you can be included on a data engineering project. If you do well they might move you there.

[rugged tundra]

They don't unfortunately. It's a good place to work and they're very happy with my performance (I received double the raise I was expected to get) but ultimately if I want to go down this path it will be into a role with a different company. I'm still getting good experience here though and am happy to stay while I build up my skills.

[brazen island]

I think you've basically summed it up nicely yourself. You can build up your skills at your current company and slowly look towards different companies.

Can I ask where you're from? This kind of matters in terms of giving advice here. 🙂 Where I'm from I'd always argue in favour of getting a bachelor's degree in an online program over doing a bootcamp or portfolio projects as it'll have way more value in the long run.

[rugged tundra]

I'm in Melbourne, Aus.

As mentioned above, I did initially start with Python and moved onto web due to the advice I was given. There are data engineering bootcamps around though so I'm assuming if it's possible to go from bootcamp to data engineer (even if it's harder than bootcamp to web dev) that it must be at least somewhat reasonable to assume I can learn the skills myself to the point of being able to secure a position as I did with web dev.

[brazen island]

Well, I don't have a clue how the market in AUS is. I think you already did a good job in asking for advice of people that know your market. If you can get your hands on a few more people in the field I'd reach out to them as that's more valuable than the advice we can give you here on Discord.

What you could also try is just book a meeting with the people organizing the data engineering bootcamps and ask them about the rate of people that get jobs in DE after doing it, accounting for their education, background, job experience and so on. If they're truthful this will give you a good idea on what the odds are. You don't even need to register for the bootcamp, just get the information.

[rugged tundra]

That's a good idea, I will actually do that. Thank you.

I am checking for local meetups related to Data Engineering too, I sometimes attend some of the dev ones so I'll look for some other too attend too.

[fiery jasper]

hey guys, i was wondering about taking Harvard's CS50 courses

which courses are worth the time and in what order?

[violet magnet]

If the job I am applying for is looking for a "Django/Python React/Typescript Fuillstack Developer" and the projects I have to show are React without typescript, does that look bad? Like should I rewrite my frontends for my main portfolio projects in typescript just for this reason?

[obtuse nova]

@bleak fractal

@bleak fractal

[gritty rivet]

The stronger your JS is, I would think showing TS experience is less critical. Simply listing TypeScript somewhere might be enough if you're prepared to prove you know it in an interview

If you really want this particular job and you feel you can reasonably refactor a project to use TS then sure, could be worth it.

[violet magnet]

yeah I've never worked on a typescript project. I know that I could if I had to. But I've never chosen to do so.

There are some things about the frontend that are kinda embarassing in general and Ive considered rewriting it using the current one as a guide for the new.

Like for example, half way into the project, I decided there was too much repeating fetch code. So I wrote a nice fetch wrapper that does caching and handles errors and I started using that.

But I was too lazy to update all the previous requests that just worked and left them.

I wonder like... will people who are hiring judge me for everything like that, or will they see the bigger picture, that I have a large project that works.

[gritty rivet]

A lot of the value in your projects comes from how you present and talk about them. Emphasize the positive and what you accomplished without hiding where you know there is room for improvement.

It's always possible that a hiring manager will scrutinize your code in detail, but not the norm in most situations. So you have to decide for yourself what's worth fixing

[midnight maple]

Hi

so this is career-discussion section. Well, can anyone suggest me is advanced PCM hard?

Physics, Chemistry, Maths

[peak halo]

I'd say that advanced courses in physics, chemistry, and math would be challenging, yes

[midnight maple]

umm by advance, I didn't mean engineering level PCM. The level of these subjects in class 11th and 12th before college.

[midnight maple]

that's what I want to know.

is any PCM student here?

[fringe sphinx]

💯 I think a lot of folks forget or don’t think about this. That: Projects aren’t just a tool for learning, at interview time, they’re prompts for the interviewer to ask about…. So be able to show excitement, knowledge, competency, etc in the project. Talking about projects is the interviewees chance to shine!

[midnight maple]

hey billy bobby which subject do ya study?

[fringe sphinx]

I graduated long ago. Comp Sci

[midnight maple]

oh which country you're from? because education system varies from country to country.

[fringe sphinx]

US

[midnight maple]

wow that's grt! so are you a software developer now or programmer or engineer?

[fringe sphinx]

Those words all mean the same thing to me. Yah, I’ve been a SWE for a few decades. More of a manager now.

[midnight maple]

I'm 14 years old. Btw which stream you took in your student years?

[fringe sphinx]

Stream?

[midnight maple]

wowwwww!!!!!! that's superb. I also aspire to become a SWE.

[keen estuary]

what does swe stand for

[fringe sphinx]

My best advice is: find a way to -love- math. Math in school is (often) boring but math can be fun and interesting. Computer science isn’t all math, but there’s a lot of crossover.

[midnight maple]

well u know I'm from India, so lemme explain you there is primary school from class 1st to class 8th and secondary school of class 9th and 10th and when a student reaches senior secondary class 11th and 12th. The individual is to opt streams like Commerce, Humanities, PCM, PCB, medical etc.

[fringe sphinx]

Check out https://www.3blue1brown.com for instance

[midnight maple]

man this is the only subject that I suck at lol I scored 15/20 in maths in my periodic assessment 😭

[fringe sphinx]

Ah, in most US high schools, there aren’t separate ‘streams’ (or tracks) but you can choose individual courses: and some have accelerated programs (like math)

[fringe sphinx]

My point is: enjoying/finding the fun in it is far more important in the long-term… more than the grades

[midnight maple]

what's this website is about btw I do opened it there are various topics like calculus, algebra etc. well I tried to learn calculus in advance but it went all over my mind because I was trying to jump ahead my classes and study advance classes earlier to become more proficient when I reach in higher classes to enhance my understanding of complex subject but I just couldn't understand so I dropped it.

[fringe sphinx]

This channel@is great too: https://m.youtube.com/user/MindYourDecisions

[midnight maple]

yeahh, well when I practice math for like 30 - 50 questions a day, my interest automatically starts developing and I get into flow state gradually.

[true harness]

soft ware engineer

[fringe sphinx]

For every ‘advanced topic’ like calculus or linear , there’s a friendly and intuitive explanation. Look for those: look for the explanation, people who are excited about it. Those two YouTube channels are made by people who love the topic.

[midnight maple]

man, I'm just getting overdose of motivation just by watching your text in the chat that you are a software engineer.

[keen estuary]

what is that?

[true harness]

a person that engineers soft ware

[midnight maple]

The one who develops software.

[keen estuary]

huh?

[fringe sphinx]

Stick around this discord, especially in #python-discussion , and you’ll meet people at every stage of learn from students like you to old folks 🙂 like me

[midnight maple]

Software engineering is also known as Computer Science Engineering. It is a brance of study that deals with coding, programming and developing softwares. Ex. Creating a game.

[keen estuary]

no way

[fringe sphinx]

Have you started learning programming?

[midnight maple]

thxx for telling me.

[fringe sphinx]

There’s also a few ppl here from India who would have better advice re: school

[midnight maple]

well yk I just began by python and tried print("Hello, World"). I'm at this stage rn currently.

[fringe sphinx]

Nice, how are you learning? Course? Book? YouTube?

[midnight maple]

yeah edu, system variation ik

[midnight maple]

yeah I started recently but my exams started so I dropped and decided to begin again after the exams are over.

[midnight maple]

can you pls accept my one req.? please accept my friend request. You'll be a treasure guider for my carrer in softwari engineering

and yk what I want to become a SFW. But I want to settle in US.

[keen estuary]

sorry to say that, I really am. but seems like billy is getting bored of your enthusiasm tbh

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, learning programming can seem very hard at first, just keep making small steps and you’ll cover a long distance. Definitely ask for help here (in #python-discussion ) if you get stuck.

[midnight maple]

btw how old are you sir, I'm 14 so ik that you are much older than me.

[midnight maple]

no problem, I don't mind! everyone has different interests.

[fringe sphinx]

Nah, I love these conversations. I’m happy to give my opinion, and hopefully other people will too.

[dark arrow]

in my experience 11 and 12 were much harder than my first year of engineering

[midnight maple]

actually this whole server is abt Python and it is a kinda core part of software engineering. so, you may have different interests

[dark arrow]

there's a large jump in difficulty from 10->11

there's also a huge difference in difficulty of boards vs entrance exams

[midnight maple]

are ya from india?

[dark arrow]

yes

[keen estuary]

that's completely irrelevant thing to say

[midnight maple]

i want to clear JEE yk

[dark arrow]

right

[midnight maple]

is that so? sorry if it is.

[midnight maple]

so you've tried JEE?

[keen estuary]

sorry if i sound like a jerk to you

[dark arrow]

it wasnt terrible

[midnight maple]

especially in 12th Physics. right?

[dark arrow]

they're all difficult

[midnight maple]

Noooo! u got it all wrong. you're no jerk to me man.

[dark arrow]

compared to 10

[midnight maple]

because in class 10th eletricity is taught not at advanced level but when you reach in class 12th it's all abt electricity lol

[dark arrow]

upto 10 you basically only learn science qualitatively

from 11 math gets involved

[midnight maple]

but if you think class 11th Physics is not much hard becuase mechanics is at advanced level but u were taught the core/basics of it in class 9th.

[midnight maple]

so did you clear JEE?

[dark arrow]

i got a decent department at IIT kgp but i ended up taking a different uni

[midnight maple]

wooh! you did clear JEE but took different uni. whyy?

it is the 2nd difficult engineering exam and you cleared it but didn't went to IIT. Seriously man

[dark arrow]

the other uni is also top 10 engineering and i got a branch i like more

[midnight maple]

well if u can tell me what's kgp?

[dark arrow]

iit kharagpur

[midnight maple]

oh what was ur percentile?

I'm in class 9th. can u gimme some tips, senior?

[dark arrow]

uhh ill just say i had a 4 digit rank in advanced lol

[midnight maple]

but atleast u cleared it. it's really a big deal

[dark arrow]

the hardest thing is just to consistently study for 2 years

for us that was especially hard because it was during covid

[midnight maple]

can u pls be my friend, I actually need an indian experience student who has completed his class 11th and 12th. (and u are the one who's cleared JEE Adv.) it would be really grt for me

[midnight maple]

so you're from AIR 1 Mridul batch? I mean 2021 ?

[dark arrow]

22

[midnight maple]

so how much hours did you study?

[dark arrow]

i shitposted on discord 24/7 i shouldnt exactly be your role model

[midnight maple]

that doesn't matter. What matters is that you're an experienced student of PCM and the entrance exam I'm pursuing to crack, you've already cracked and even rejected. all the more reasons of you being my role model.

in class 9th my Physics is god level but my chemistry is just piece of shit and maths is umm I'm a 55/80 in half yearly and 15/20 marks, I scored in maths, I'm kinda avg or normal student at maths but my physics is grt.

[dark arrow]

in my opinion

if youre in class 9

there's no need to worry about jee now

make sure you study your current syllabus well

[cyan valley]

Would you recommend I get my degree in DS or maybe learn from Harvard online?

[gritty rivet]

Getting a degree in general is a good idea. What you should major in and where you should study depends highly on your individual situation.

[cyan valley]

I'm trying to get into A.I / M.L

if that means anything

[gritty rivet]

That's not my field but my impression is that you should expect to go to graduate school then too.

[night hazel]

hey, due to the fast expansion of AI models, are programmers and developers going to be replaced?

I mean AIs can now be really good at CP

I wanna become a software engineer, but after reading about Gemini I got quite sceptical about it

[gritty rivet]

I wouldn't plan your career around speculation about the future implications of the latest technology headlines.

[peak halo]

tools like ChatGPT are pretty impressive, but there's a lot more to being a professional developer than writing brief segments of code

[night hazel]

Yes for now it can only write some segments of code, but imagine in 5 years, I am sure they will be able to work on a full project

[peak halo]

Don't be so sure.

[fringe sphinx]

There's some logical fallacy here too. Trying to remember what it's called: we see an immediate step from pre-GPT to post-GPT, and assume that the next steps will be equal in distance (and immediate).

But there's a natural limit to what GPT/LLMs can achieve, they're largely only as good as their "inputs". There's no reasoning involved, so are they really progress towards AGI? Or just better search engines?

[vapid jay]

It's important to remember too, that even though satellite and wi-fi etc exist, we are running fiber optic everywhere. The infrastructure, everything that makes the internet and tech what it is, and empowers LLMs to do what they do, will still exist. AI is more than likely going to augment our interaction with this as a whole, and give us leverage to be more efficient and agile. It is by no means an elimination of the industry. Someone still needs to go into a data center to replace a hard drive. Someone needs to proof read the code written by AI and stored on that drive. End to end will be full of people and jobs. Just because we have wireless doesn't mean we don't still use Ethernet.

Just my 2 cents, sorry if it's a word salad.

[hearty island]

uhg 😦

[outer granite]

Is it possible for someone to get an entry-level job as a programmer 100% remotely?

[true harness]

sure

[peak halo]

yes? is there more to this question?

[silk rose]

What do you think about such jobs: https://jobs.is.mpg.de/jobposting/8eda6c93bfe37d57e05ca507c86c931fad51ea9f?ref=linkedin&identifier=163c48b35dd58a2af7ffd10a89d1120e29135a39

Or this one: 4 years C+ experience, but job is limited to 5 years, where one should acquire proficiency in highly specialised software https://www.xfel.eu/careers/open_positions/index_eng.html?joboffer_details=e218907&record_pos=189

I know we are on Python discord? Is there something for R maybe? I had yesterday a super nice job interview, but as it is the first position in the company like this, they want rather good R knowledge. Currently, I have basic R knowledge. Do you know any good resources for R please? How I could train to get the job?

[silk rose]

Yes, where? I am looking for a job 😄

[peak halo]

all the jobs involving R will be about data anlysis. Do you have a degree related to this?

[bold basin]

hi

[fossil garnet]

Hi everyone, just joined and have a question that has been bugging me for the last month and forums online have been not so helpful and made me doubt even more.

I'm 27m and have been in the I.T game since after school but only the hardware and network side never coding.

The company i worked for pickup up issues with irs a nd had to let a few people go me included. So now i need to get a new job but the market is so flooded with standard I.T guys that the pay is very low and one can't really get ahead.

So my question is. If i start now how long will it take me before i can get a job as a Python programmer?

Pardon the long read😅

[vapid jay]

Hey, I've gone through something similar recently. Have been in app support about 4 years, got laid off and took some time to learn Python more in depth, I had been using it in the past. I can only speak from my experience, but after about 6 months or so, I ended up taking another app support job. Your milage may vary, but I spent quite a bit of time working on it and decided I'd need to go back to work and do it on the side until I could get ready.

and I was essentially treating my learning like a fulltime job or so when I wasn't working, doing SQL, AWS, Git, Udemy etc, along with Python/Django

[bold basin]

im a web developer bro and im make web sites for companys

i advise

[fossil garnet]

Thank you for your input, and are you still in app support or did you get a job as a Python developer

[bold basin]

bot problem 😅

[vapid jay]

I am still in app support, working towards landing a job as a developer

[bold basin]

I hope you get a better income

[turbid bobcat]

Their best "demo" is fake and the benchmarks have also been thrown into question. Gemini looks like a huge leap through their marketing, but it's likely a slightly worse GPT4.

[fringe sphinx]

There’s no good answer for ‘how long’ and ‘what do I need’ to get a job as a SWE, especially when coming from a non standard (cs major/etc) background. My advice would be to take baby steps towards your goal: start learning coding and adjacent skills (cloud, Linux, shell scripting, etc) and move towards jobs that involve some coding (qa and ops, in particular).

[vapid jay]

I would agree with @fringe sphinx as that is my approach now. I got a job with a software company that uses SQL, Linux, etc on a daily basis, with the skills I currently have. And then use those to leverage and grow into a better role, since I don't have a CS degree or Dev experience. You have to build if you're coming from non-dev background unforunately.

[fossil garnet]

Oky i see, but also now that ChatGPT is capable of coding will that have an effect on the developer market or not really?

[vapid jay]

not in the doomsday way everyone is saying.. imo

[fringe sphinx]

GPT is like Google or SO. Helpful tool that improves my quality of life (sometimes). That’s it

[fossil garnet]

So even with it's growing capabilities its not going to replace a developers?

[summer roost]

GPT is capable of reproducing solutions it has already seen. It's not capable of coding non trivial applications without an incredible degree of handholding. GPT is no more a replacement for software developers than Stack Overflow is

[vapid jay]

good take

[fossil garnet]

Wow oky well said, thank you.

And personally how did you learn python?

[vapid jay]

@fossil garnet I gave my long winded take from my infra/support perspective above before you joined. might add to the question: #career-advice message

[summer roost]

It was one of the first languages I played with, then I set it aside, and then I came back to it for some test automation tasks a few years later while working as a professional developer

[cursive socket]

Anyone know where I could get a remote internship in EMEA? I’m a sophomore computer engineering student

[vapid jay]

personally, I took an application that was used in a previous job and made a clone in Python. I used codecadmy really early on to learn the basics (I knew C, bash, js beforehand so I had fundamental knowledge), and coding challenges to practice, udemy to get project ideas from courses. And then lots of googling. I also knew SQL so I was able to make it full stack, and did a course on AWS to get my cert, then hosted it on there. I basically just bit off pieces as I needed to learn them. Lots of googling, Stack Overflow, some courses but mostly trial and error and looking it up

I would advise avoiding step by step tutorials over and over as you might not ever learn to think of how to do the project itself, or where to start.

but as I haven't officially landed a dev job, I might not be the most qualified to answer, I just know from my experience learning recently and the advice others have given me. I'd say the bread and butter is, learn the basics, then pick a project you really want to build (a web app, desktop app, a command line utility even) and build it out just by trying it and googling you mistakes, that's how I learned and got engaged the most.

[silk rose]

Sure, I do 🙂

I attend as well currently statistic courses

[turbid bobcat]

Building stuff has been the number 1 way I learn languages and/or technologies.

Reading about DSA and doing leetcode type of problems has also helped me a lot.

[vapid jay]

question about DSA, this is where I've gotten stuck recently. Any solid resources for Python to crack this?

[near ocean]

There should be pins in #algos-and-data-structs

[turbid bobcat]

A lot of patience and persistence

But ive been enjoying this guy's lectures: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OQ5jsbhAv_M&feature=youtu.be

[silk rose]

I found GPT3 (the public version) very bad, it can do small jobs, but nothing complicated. Often it gives me code, that does not run even through, gets an error

[vapid jay]

thank you, I will check it out - did you pay for leetcode? worth it? I mostly used "codewars"

okay, I like this guy

[turbid bobcat]

Not worth it because you can find everything they give you online.

I suggest doing the leetcode-150 list, it classifies the problems into subjects, so you can read about them and then solve the problems.

Doing all the easy then all the mediums then all the hard ones.

[fringe sphinx]

Obligatory: grinding leetcode just makes you better at leetcode, not a better SWE. Be balanced 🙂

[vapid jay]

makes sense

[brittle storm]

many jop intr get exact questions of leetcode.

[turbid bobcat]

Uhm, it is making me practice brain muscles which I have never used. I've also learned a lot of basic knowledge which was missing.

I do feel like IRL I'd just brute force some of these with a GPU, or use the best SOTA algo implemented as a function in some library that I can pip install.

But another surprising consequence is that I've been thinking more deeply about the language I'm using, to lookup how certain things are handled internally, so that's kinda cool.

[fringe sphinx]

Yup, I’m not saying don’t do leetcode. Just find ways to practice different brain muscles, not just one.

My point was about grinding , not simply doing -some- leetcode. Grinding comes at a cost: other things you aren’t doing.

[turbid bobcat]

Yes I understand and agree with your perspective. I was just reflecting on my experience so far.

I do feel like a high intensity burn at the start can be beneficial to get to an acceptable pace of learning. But again, it's not my original field of study so I can't really make too many strong statements about what is the best path.

[fringe sphinx]

Also, are you trying AOC? Similarly difficult challenges

[turbid bobcat]

You mean advent of code ?

I'm gonna take a look.

[fringe sphinx]

Yes, I like the problems because there’s a lot of thinking and discovery involved, more so than I think with leetcode questions, but not that much harder (but still hard enough)

[turbid bobcat]

Yeah they look a lot better than leetcode. Leetcode problems frequently feel extremely dry. Thinking about interesting hard problems is fun, but thinking about boring hard problems can feel like torture.

[worldly cargo]

I'd like to find reliable ressources for the creation of a website from scratch, for specifically full stack development thanks

[vapid jay]

specifically for python, you could use flask or django

[worldly cargo]

to create a website from start to finish you do need to know multiple languages right ?

[buoyant seal]

not obligated. You can use a single fully fledged programming language if desired.

• Typescript, or Golang or Rust or Python both for back end front. (available with WASM frontend framework and transpilers)
• Or you can be not needing client side interactive frontend, u are fine with a regular html/css/vanilla js/htmx for front, then u could use just python for backend (or any other backend language, Typescript, Golang, Java and etc)
  • or you could be not needing backend, and u built frontend only (with js/ts, wasm frontends and etc)
  • frontend is GUI of a web site, graphical interface with client side interactivity usually. Backend is able to do server side work and operate with databases.
• Or you can be just making no code solution with CMS like wagtail/wordpress, or some online constructor

that's if we don't count html/css for real languages. (they are kind of not)

[worldly cargo]

Thanks for the reply, I see what you're trying to get to. And since im planning to create a web app, do you think django or flask are fit for that job ?
So yes i need client side interactions

[buoyant seal]

web app?

• what are planned features u wish to make?
• also what is the aim of a project, for work, for student project?
  • is there requirement where u wish to learn frontend, backend, or u are fine using no code solutions if wishing just to make your work easier?

[worldly cargo]

Its purpose would be to automate multiple tasks like collecting information on a specific websites and using other websites.
So one example of the result of this project would be to have a fully functioning blogging website that is automatically written (thanks by AI) and automatically updated (by keeping track of the news on a website)

[worldly cargo]

as for the code solution, I'm not looking for anything specific however i'm just interested in the website manipulation but i have no clue about how to do such things
nor where to find the approriate ressources
Django seems to be able to handle of these features if im not mistaken

[buoyant seal]

ergh, AI. okay, u need a minimal backend in any form to hide your API usage.
solution is in general sounding in high amount of customization. So i would say CMS are out of question.
Streamlit is may be an option for faster to do this work

In general Flask or Django should fit your usage case as a definitely having it possible within Python world.
Flask is too easy to mess up. Newbies make good stuff with Django easier, while having poor python language knowledge
I will recommend Django then as a way to achieve it. (Since we are at python Discord server)

https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/5.0/
Django official tutorial, getting started, installation, and other tutorial parts

[fringe sphinx]

Do you know any programming language? What do you know already?

[gritty rivet]

I made the switch a couple of years ago, hard to say how long it took... But if you think the market for entry level devs is any better then general IT, it's definitely not

[worldly cargo]

im going from scratch but im willing to learn if i know what path to take and that's basically what im looking for. So far i just checked django as Darkwind said, it seems pretyy reliable for that idea

[worldly cargo]

Thank you for your help, it's enlighten on how to procede to do so. It was very useful !

[nocturne abyss]

Hey guys! This is my first time chatting here. I am planning on switching my career path to be a Python Developer. To be honest i need some advice, right now I am in need of experience. But as always happens, I cant find work because of my lack of experience...and oh well...you know the drill. Is there any path to take to gain experience ? I am thinking about doing my own apps. Still dont know if that will be enough. Any advice ? (Sorry if this comment its a little mixed)

[vapid jay]

Hey Goblin, a lot of the convos above (if you can see them that is) discuss this exact top. I would say from my experience, and I'm going through the same thing right now, learn as much as you can by building projects, and fill in the gaps with research and some coding challenges (leetcode, some have suggested) and interview prep exercises. The best way to learn is building projects of your own.

[regal axle]

An important question is what your current skill level is and also what are you transitioning from? Do you have experience with any development?

[nocturne abyss]

My current job has no involvement in developing. I've taken several courses. From Coursera: (Google Google IT Automation with Python Professional Certificate, Python for Everybody Specilization (University of Michigan),
Software Engineering Specilization (The Hong Kong University of Science and Technology),
Coding for Everyone: C and C++ Specilization (University of California, Santa Cruz),
PostgreSQL for Everybody Specilization (University of Michigan), Oracle SQL Databases Specilization (LearnQuest)) plus almost all mini-courses on kaggle.com, and a certificate in Artificial Intelligence here in Uruguay.
I want to start working in this area. I am trying to find the 'right path'...if there is something like that ? 😄

I will add, that i've already made a program (a parser) that fixed a problem we had at work and I have a few extra ones (but for personal use and for the fun of it).

[regal axle]

This sounds like a good position to be in. Be aware that the job market is bad right now for into positions. But not impossible.
As for the “right path” … that’s harder to say. Because it just depends on what you like or want to do.

[nocturne abyss]

Thats also a problem to me hahaha. I enjoy everything lol. From IA to development. I guess that its more close to actually giving solutions to problems and automating tasks

[regal axle]

So things like tool building and maybe backend work. I think you probably have enough to get a job. However, you will probably need to “network”. You can’t just send out apps, you also have to talk to recruiters.
You will just need to make sure your materials are put together well. Things like your resume.

[nocturne abyss]

Ok, that seems a good way to start. I was thinking about building a web portfolio (I know almost nothing about web development but it seems kind of useful).
So my priorities right now, should be:

• Resume (up-to-date)
• Web portfolio
• Talking to recruiters
• More apps (for practice)

[regal axle]

If you don’t do web stuff, a web portfolio isn’t that useful. Having a place to showcase your work is helpful. But I would at the very least swap points 2 and 3.
Now, if you want to make a portfolio, go for it. More experience is good; just not required

[nocturne abyss]

Thanks for the tips. 😄
I was starting to get frustrated. Now I have a direction 😄

[outer granite]

How hard is it to get an entry-level job as a programmer 100% remotely?

[peak halo]

there are too many variables to give a general answer that would be useful to you, but they're probably relatively fewer than hybrid or in-person positions.

[summer roost]

it's much harder than hybrid or in-person. Companies expect entry-level developers to need a lot of support, and they know that it's much easier to give that support when employees spend time in the office

[gritty rivet]

In what country? Most remote jobs are not open to international applicants.

Do you have at least a bachelor's degree of some kind, or at least some other professional experience? If not, that will make it considerably less likely

[outer granite]

USA

[peak halo]

Dowcet asked you more than one question. Be sure to answer all of them.

[toxic kindle]

how to make python on python

[peak halo]

Is this a serious question? Can you elaborate?

[gritty rivet]

Pretty sure that's not relevant here, butyou could explain the question in #python-discussion

[harsh remnant]

Applied for a non-profit organization that protects kids online and they needed a React/Boostrap dev, I won't get paid (volunteering). I used React like once in my Hackathon, and that was mostly ChatGPT with some React knowledge from YouTube. I don't even know Boostrap and they said they can possibly set up a 15-minute video after I fill out this forum. This is my first interview in the world of software dev and I am kinda stressing out! is this some sort of leetcode style interview about React?

[weak kindle]

Leetcode questions might not be the focus , be prepared to show problem-solving skills and how you've applied React in the past

[rugged tundra]

Is there a more junior role to data engineer that I could look into that would be a good pathway into data engineer?

I am currently a web developer (self taught - no degree) and want to move in this direction.

[vapid jay]

Going to go out on a limb and say you will be asked behavioral and fundamental questions

fundamental questions like, why would you use a linked list rather than an array, what's the purpose of object oriented programming, and how do you handle exceptions.

[vapid jay]

my anecdotal experience as entry level is that about 1/3 of the local jobs I apply to I get a response from. Remote jobs are probably 1% or less.

[vapid jay]

hi im trying to get cloud azure job what are my steps

im currently 14 but want to be ready when i graduate

[jolly cosmos]

So, I'll be starting schooling in January for general ED and I believe some courses that my advisor suggests for Software Engineering (will find out wednesday), but I wanted to ask for other people's suggestions. I'm pretty sure I want my career to revolve around dev work, whether that be the usual software engineering, small-time game dev stuff on the side, maybe ai engineering or something. Would a schooling program like Applied Software Engineering be the better choice over Computer Science?

[sand hawk]

my "lead" admitted no mastering "if elif else" this week, but keep imposing his lame ideas all the time when he feels like it, i don't know how to deal with such global incompetence without quitting, but for the last two years I didn't improve and I'm afraid I'm not hireable elsewhere now .. sigh

[summer rune]

!voiceverify

[warm mist]

[solar garden]

I'm 15 and i want to pursue a career in robotics, how do i learn robotics and start with it ik a bit python and that's it.What skills do i need to know and how to gain those skills?

[ivory compass]

What do you mean "no mastering if else this week"? Is this a intern job? I don't want to sound rude just confused.

[ivory compass]

I know one question I had was why don't you use the global state for everything or how do you keep the state persistent? That was for a junior role. Some even just showed me a picture and said, what components would you split. Stuff like that

[sand hawk]

my "senior lead dev" just pinged me the other day because he wasn't able to fix a function that used if elif else because he didn't know how it works

[dense fiber]

you're joking right

[sand hawk]

@dense fiber you dont know how bad i wish. i almost cried last night just thinking of having to endure collaborating with this guy any longer

this guy failed upward i assume

in any case i don't know how to manage the situation without causing drama, and as I said having to work with someone of that level I kinda lost skills so I'm afraid i'll struggle finding another job. A strange rotting situation

[dense fiber]

are you in a position to resign

[sand hawk]

not really otherwise I wouldn't bother you

[dense fiber]

im honestly just dumbfounded

[sand hawk]

i was about to ask if you ever had to deal with someone like that(seems like not)

[ivory compass]

I mean its no surprise, I had a manager who said "as long as it works it doesn't matter" and that attitude was throughout

[sand hawk]

that's exactly his spirit

he lives between the lines and the shadows, props up the results and ask for raises.. and it works

[ivory compass]

I suppose he takes the attitude that the client doesn't have to know about the inner workings of the product, as long as it functions and is delivered , he doesn't care

[sand hawk]

true, but there are limits, it piles up as bad code in the long run, he also takes hours to fix something that takes 5 minutes, will reject any improvement that flies above his head (which is 99% of ideas) so others have to rot while he coasts asking for our help

[dense fiber]

i hate him already

[sand hawk]

i'm not even on the juicy bits

anyway, thanks making me feel not crazy

[dense fiber]

no, he is

[ivory compass]

I think its a wide spread attitude to be honest. People who don't take development as a craft because in the end they know they don't get rewarded for creating good software

[dense fiber]

that kind of incompetence cost both the company and the employee

[sand hawk]

the system allows for such absurdities sadly

[dense fiber]

but as you said, they failed upward

[sand hawk]

i'm tempted to ask for going part time so I can stop wasting my soul but i'm afraid it will cause either drama or make me look like the lazy demotivated employee too

so i can prepare for a new job with actual solid colleagues

[ivory compass]

just do the bare minumum and focus on preparing for another job . Nowadays if I have interviews, I seriously question their development culture after realising this attitude is wide-spread

[true harness]

apparently the bare minimum there is pretty bare 😬. probably time to leave i think. do you have other team members that share your opinions?

[sand hawk]

@ivory compass I think they have enough cash coming in and stable customers to not care, we were hired during covid probably because of a lack of supply so they took whatever. and to be honest, it benefited me, my resume is laughably bad with huge gaps, but I'm carrying my weight at work at least.

[sand hawk]

yeah there's another dude, a friend of him that he drafted, he laughs at his buddies lack of general abilities but he doesn't mind

his friend is a good coworker though, dilligent and somehow knowledgeable, he won't ask stupid beginner questions

anyway i'm gonna try to fade away while applying more

[true harness]

quiet quitting they call it these days

[sand hawk]

hehe yeah

[ivory compass]

Yeah just have like zero loyalty to the companies unless you get paid a lot I suppose lol. Moment its the end of the work day I shut off.

[sand hawk]

i hate it, i feel dirty, i like waking up in the morning motivated you know

[ivory compass]

I suppose then yeah if the environment is making you feel really demotivated then better to jump if you can't change environment

but though I think its better to jump if you already have some experience like 2+ years otherwise it may be a struggle I think

[sand hawk]

yeah i'm above 2+

[ivory compass]

then thats fine

[sand hawk]

i may just have to accept a salary cut to ease the jump, but a good team where you grow and a quality project is worth some money too

[ruby zinc]

Hey all, what are interesting concepts that people who studied CS generally know and appreciate? I work in SWE with 2 yoe but did physics at uni. Both for my own interest but also to bridge a bit of a cultural gap, what highlights of the field should I look into? This question is in part because I heard a friend talk about tractability, so thats one. Like if I was to answer the other way around then off the top of my head I'd talk about macro vs microstates, lagrangians, symmetry laws, maybe even partial derivatives and pertubations

[hearty island]

y’all, how important are thank you emails? i can’t send them to the interviewers for ||REDACTED|| or the one at volkswagen

[hearty island]

volkswagen didn't give me the guy's email, and ||REDACTED|| sure as hell won't for discretion purposes

[white relic]

Complexity classes (O(n), O(log n), all that stuff), common data structures (B-trees and hash tables are the nontrivial ones I find most generally useful), what caching is and how memory works in a broad sense, I would personally add some architecture stuff like what is an entity component system and ways to model a graph but that isn't exactly common knowledge just useful

More specific but still broadly useful: network sockets, relational databases, revision control e.g. Git

[tawdry sable]

Hi my code runs at 0.5 seconds but i need it to be fater like 0.3 or 0.2

[hearty island]

hey, try #❓｜how-to-get-help

[sand hawk]

@ruby zinc state machines could be a nice bridge too, there's some logical grounding, and interesting minimization problems, they're used in many places including formal language parsing or other more mainstream things like UIs, it may also connect with physical abstractions for state (phase state / space)

[tawdry sable]

i just wanted tips

like common things i tried using lru cache but that doesnt work with python

it doesnt work with dictionaries

[true harness]

this isn't related to career discussion. you should ask in a different channel like damian suggested

[severe inlet]

I think so, although I am someone who is also trying to figure out how to become a professional Python developer. There are many ways to contribute, and at all levels you can make effort to solve issues related to any project. In my experience, looking at a codebase on GitHub was intimidating at first, and it felt incomprehensible. Then I started deciphering the issue questions, the structure, and parts of the codebase. Over time and with persistently working at being able to contribute, the language and the structure becomes meaningful, the required tools and knowledge become apparent. Also, often what is written in complicated language denotes something simple.

You can research open source issues at any level. You can apply problem solving tools and methods of learning how to learn. You could document your learning process, and write blog posts. Any questions you have you can ask on Stack Exchange sites, or on Discord. You can read books specifically for the projects you are working on. You can also make your MVPs and upload your own projects to GitHub, and collaborate on Code Review, for example, to improve it. In fact, by composing questions, and answering questions on Stack Exchange sites, you contribute and can learn a ton.

Another idea that seems reasonable to do is freelancing. You could build a freelancing business, keep building it and attend to persistently for a long time. Recently I had much inspiration from "The Art of Clean Code" and "Leaving the Rat Race with Python"

[gritty rivet]

This is all good advice but I'm personally very skeptical about freelancing as an entry point. Most people who have any luck with freelance dev work seem to have previous professional experience in the industry.

I have experience freelancing in other fields with great reviews on Upwork, but zero luck getting hired for coding work on there. In comparison finding my first dev job wasn't so hard

[severe inlet]

Sorry, I don't have experience with freelancing, I'm just enthusiastic about the idea.

[runic remnant]

does anyone have any resources for template resumes to apply for internships

[true harness]

there are many online, you just have to look. overleaf is where I found mine

[runic remnant]

if u dont mind could u share the link? i am mostly pondering about what to include in the experience section

[true harness]

it's work experience. https://www.overleaf.com/

[runic remnant]

yeah but how do u have work experience before ur first intership ;-; or official job

[brazen island]

Another thing I'd like to add is how much people seem to underestimate the value of having someone senior. You can learn a lot from the guidance you get as a junior, be it technical skills or soft skills. If you freelance you're expected to "deliver" immediately from my experience.

[true harness]

you don't. you wouldn't include a work experience section

[runic remnant]

fair, time to expand the skill section 🤡

[true harness]

expand projects instead. maybe add some clubs or activities. let me find my resume before i got an internship as an example

[runic remnant]

mhm i see ty 🙏

[true harness]

technically i had work experience but it's unrelated. i'm not sure if i can find before any work experience, i don't think i was versioning it at that point. also, it's kinda embarassing 😬

[runic remnant]

its not embarrassing work is work atleast you have had experience pretty sure it comes into play at some point :p

thanks for the example 🙂

[true harness]

i mean the resume is embarassing, lol. yeah, any work experience is fine to add, as it can help demonstrate you have soft skills/can work with people

[runic remnant]

my bad 🤡

[runic remnant]

does adding coursera certifications add any value to the resume?

[true harness]

i don't employ people, but afaik not really

[dense mesa]

It shows that you're interested in the topic and willing to put time in to learn more. It wouldn't make or break an application most likely, but it's better than not having it

[hearty island]

i had me working as a cashier and me working as a volunteer mailman before my internships. thank god for internships.

[true harness]

yeah i think if you had nothing else, it's better than empty space. but i think the space could be better used for something else

[fringe sphinx]

For SWE positions, it’s safe to assume that software certs don’t carry any weight and perhaps might stand out as ‘odd’ to me when screening. But: if you’re applying for adjacent roles in tech like QA and support, and don’t have a degree or experience, perhaps?

Me, I’d question why a SWE with a degree would bother with a coursera course or anything like that. Perhaps an AWS cert or something complementary to dev skills would be a positive, but a Python course or similar? Would be odd.

[summer roost]

You wouldn't agree that listing certs is better than empty space on the resume?

[brazen island]

I'm a strong believer in less is more, I wouldn't add every cert I have on my CV

[fringe sphinx]

I’m not sure, tbh. Depends on the cert perhaps, some might seem like a negative to me: if I’m quickly screening, I’d probably treat a low quality cert as a negative rather than neutral. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[fringe sphinx]

What’s your view? I guess it’s very context specific.

[runic remnant]

what kind of projects displayed on resume would be considered decent

[summer roost]

I agree that it'd be weird to list a cert in addition to a degree - at least for most types of certs, with some exceptions like the AWS/GCP/Azure ones. I think that inability to fill out a full 1 page resume is a worse signal than listing a cert in a relevant domain/technology, though.

I'd rather see projects or academic honors or previous work experience than low quality certs, but I think I'd rather see low quality certs than 3 inches of blank space, heh

[brazen island]

I had a little handle on the side where I said "demonstrable experience in thing1, thing2, thing3, thing4" where all the things were hyperlinks to my git repo. I truly don't think people care about detailed explanations of what the projects are, if they do they'll follow the link.

[true harness]

just increase the line separation to distribute it throughout the document 😎

[runic remnant]

thats fair i suppose

[brazen island]

Goes for my entire resume in general. I had more stuff than I had space for so I left a lot out. Less is more. People don't have the time to (nor interest) to read it all I think 😄 When I leave my current role I'll also condense all I did into a few highlights and not more.

[summer roost]

less is more, unless it's too little

[runic remnant]

ty for the help guys 🙏

[brazen island]

Yeah, definitely. I'm emphasizing less here because I think a lot of CVs I see floating around go too much in the other direction

[summer roost]

yeah, I get what you're saying. You definitely don't need to fit your whole life story and tell every technology you've ever learned in the resume, but you also don't want it to look like you ran out of things to say about yourself half a page in

[brazen island]

Iirc what I did is I had a long CV where I listed all the semi relevant things I did, maybe 8 or so student jobs and/or internships and when applying I'd take it and only keep half of the things there, just the ones relevant to the role.

[harsh remnant]

CV vs resume?

[brazen island]

In Europe a "resume" is a CV

[red gorge]

Hi, guys, is there anyone who's gonna give me a job opportunity?
In terms of technical stack, no worries. Thanks.

[smoky quest]

Every job ad receives thousands of applicants. Why would anyone give an opportunity to strangers here?

Also ads and recruitment aren't allowed here

[vapid jay]

How many applications do you think is a good goal each day?

I know that obviously one answer is to never stop applying, but it would be nice to see what y'all think is a good daily realistic goal

[astral bramble]

I was wondering if anyone else felt that there arent many Python jobs these days when compared to afew years ago. I understand that there was a peak 2 years ago but there isnt much at all these days. I am from Canada and talking about the situation here. Not sure if this is the same as the US.

I would love your opinion/thoughts about this topic.

[grand bronze]

Python's only relevance is in Machine Learning as I've come to realized from my earlier question, and with people learning and using C and C++ I don't think Python will have a foothold in Machine Learning much longer

[strange fiber]

All jobs have moved to AI

[astral bramble]

Big tech companies stilll have huge Python divisions.
But, this does nt seem to translate to smaller companies

The number of jobs on linkedin have drastically reduced

[astral bramble]

Can you elaborate?

[grand bronze]

All that needs to happen in for various boards to decide to compromise and rewrite legacy code (primary written in python, the reason for huge python divisions) to a faster language and I'm afraid the language will be for hobbyists. But I might be overthinking it

[strange fiber]

The focus is now on AI

[astral bramble]

So you think Python is going away?

[strange fiber]

In the future yes

[grand bronze]

basically

[fringe sphinx]

Huh? What are we talking about?

[strange fiber]

The guy above is wondering where all the jobs went to

[fringe sphinx]

I’m in small tech. Been in big tech. There’s no limit to the amount of competent SWEs we need.

The beginning of 2023 was an economic perfect storm with lots of big tech layoffs. Had nothing to do with AI.

[astral bramble]

@fringe sphinx Why do you think there is a dearth of jobs in python lately

[fringe sphinx]

It’s a traffic jam, caused by big tech layoffs at the beginning of the year.

[astral bramble]

I am sorry, can you elaborate on the traffic jam

[fringe sphinx]

There were massive layoffs in big tech in late 2022 and early 2023. The job market hasn’t recovered

[astral bramble]

Hoping things will improve soon

[native lantern]

If I could learn any programming language at a professional level, which language(s) should I learn? I already have experience in Python (high-level), C++ and Rust (systems languages/low-level), JS and related web development languages (for webdev), and others on a less familiar scale but I'm wondering if there would be something that would better round out my skillset.

[gritty rivet]

Nobody can answer this for you. While market trends are a factor to consider, you should learn what you need to do the work you most want to be doing and only you know what that is

[dusty fulcrum]

Just applied for a job that asked me the maximum salary I was looking for.
Did I sell myself short by choosing $150,000,000 ?

[buoyant seal]

python is pretty usable for backend development too 😛
C/C++ on another hand are completely not usable for this field.

that python is usable by data scientists with low dev skill, will leave python relevant for usage continously. (data scientists as a rule not being able to learn C/C++)
That they can share their stuff over web with same language, a very nice thing in addition

[turbid bobcat]

Sounds like it might've been a typo. Doesn't make a lot of sense to ask for a maximum. Maybe they meant minimum.

[true harness]

they might have been planning to hand over the company, should add a few extra zeros just in case

[buoyant seal]

it is so easy to answer you without seeing your resume and knowing for which job u applied /s 😅

[turbid bobcat]

"No I don't work for more than 150M, that would be too much".

I mean, some people do have moral objections towards the existence of billionaires. So I wonder how they'd respond.

[dusty fulcrum]

they asked for both

It wasn't even phrased as "what is your expected range".

and they posted the range the position was offering too. their highest > my smallest is all that really matters.

[fringe sphinx]

How could you afford your personal staff on such a meager salary?

[dusty fulcrum]

I'll have to cut your bonus
again

happy christmas!

[fringe sphinx]

https://youtu.be/1SXB1hvxnzw?feature=shared

[dusty fulcrum]

The company would gain a lot of respect from me if they sent me a snarky rejection letter claiming The position paid more than that.

[dusty fulcrum]

better than being laid off in December!

[vapid jay]

Better than graduating at the peak of layoffs

[oak tide]

Speaking of layoffs, remember when that one CEO laid off a few employees and then the CEO posted a selfie of themselves crying on LinkedIn 😂

[ripe elk]

i'm a 17 year old studying at a CBSE school in india,so i am a guy who has a lot of interest in tech but was not aware of programming and all till my 10th in 11th i took medical and in optional i took computer science(in python) for fun,but now i've got too much interested in it more than medical and thinking of going forward with it.I think i have the qualities and i have to try or else i will regret.So can anyone guide me?

[harsh river]

medical and programming is a great field, but the medical field is huge so you’ll wanna narrow things down somewhat

[ripe elk]

umm, how would i do that

can you explain?

[wicked tinsel]

wild, who was that?

[harsh river]

Theres many fields in the medical progression, cosmetic, pediatrician, general, do you want to focus for example on cancer research? Or do you want to focus on something else entirely, the python education can be pretty general, it’s the medical portion of it that will define everything else you do

[proven crest]

If you're 17 would I be right in assuming you've not yet started university? Starting university is really where you should decide what you want to do in life. Whether thats in the medical field or the tech field. It seems like you've been laying down some strong foundations towards the medical field altready. I'd take some time to really think about if you do want to switch into the tech field or if this might be a fleeting passion. Maybe do a SWOT, maybe think about where you want to end up in each field and where you would be happier, what are you more passionate about etc.

Also the two don't need to be mutually exclusive, I'm certain there are many jobs where the two will intersect in some way or another, you'll have to research that. If you find anything that resonates with you look at some jobs as see what degrees and background they look for and try to emulate that.

[ripe elk]

when i took biology as my subject i had decided to do pharmacy

[ripe elk]

hmm i see,I will have to do some research.

[harsh river]

A friend I mine is getting her PHD in molecular biology, and a minor in human biology, but in her current job she codes more than me, and often more revelant to her job than the general ecosystems

[ripe elk]

ohh that's cool.I am really not aware of my options,like people around me often say that biology with computer science is not a combination,also i asked some college cousellors they say that you have to choose one.
Can you plz tell me that where did your friend start from,like choosing courses n all

[harsh river]

She decided to major in the sciences and minor in the programming fields, that still gave her a huge boost than others who had never touched code af all

[distant monolith]

Hello

[ripe elk]

ohh nicee.
thanks for the info 👍

[signal hatch]

guys, tell me about python with BI, kind to use for example Power BI!

[dense fiber]

BI? whats BI?

[signal hatch]

business intelligence

this area is very usual in data base

[proven crest]

Instead of relying and waiting for a response here, the best thing you can do is research the topic yourself. Try YouTube, Google etc.

I hope this doesn’t come across as unhelpful, as a lot of times 'Google it' can, but as your question isn't specific at all and you seem to want to be introduced to the software, that genuinely is the best place to start.

[signal hatch]

thanks man, I will research a little more about it, and your recommendation was certainly very useful.

[hearty island]

you can use python scripts with power bi, i just don’t remember how

[thin lion]

I am B.tech graduate searching remote job

Tell me any opportunity

[violet epoch]

hi I have a problem launching my script on cmd I installed pip but it gives me ImportError:DLL someone who can help me please I don't have to do anything else thanks in advance

[hearty island]

we don’t recruit here, sorry

but you can look on linkedin

[gritty rivet]

#❓｜how-to-get-help

[crisp stream]

if this is about some off-server drama, please keep it out of here

[signal hatch]

hummm...I am studying about this is somo courses at Udemy

[signal hatch]

The IT sector in Canada is a growing field, driving employment and innovation, a questiom "its"

true?

[silk silo]

Any data engineers here? Need to know if job market has some real opportunities

[proven crest]

If you question is are there opportunities for data engineers, the answer is yes. If you’re asking about opportunities in a specific region, you’ll have to research that yourself.

[oak tide]

Braden Wallake

[vapid jay]

@hot nebula could you help me with something please, unmute so i could explain

[delicate schooner]

supp guys, Nav here and currently pursuing engineering btech IT im learning "C" language now and i didnt master any of the programming languages before .It would be really good if someone would help me like a mentor to guide me and help me,also what domain is at peak now and it would be very helpful if you make a road map to me and does cs50 still worth??{kindly dm me if you would really like to help me}

[vapid jay]

why cant you talk in vc?

[delicate schooner]

currently i couldnt talk but ill listen

[analog sun]

Also you may be looking for #voice-chat-text-0

[delicate schooner]

i joined vc mate

[analog sun]

Yes, that channel is the text channel for the voice chat

This is the career discussion channel

[delicate schooner]

oh sorry mate

[boreal lava]

Hey there, where would be a good channel to ask about moving from JavaScript into Python? I have just recently been offered a role at a new company working as a Cloud Engineer who write their Lambdas in Python and figured as that is career related I would start here. For reference, I have been a Software Engineer using JS & TS for 3 years now but I haven't touched Python in a long time. I really want to avoid watching tutorials as much as possible and get started writing, but appreciate that the ecosystem will be different (kinda like how Rust uses cargo etc).

So my question currently is where is best to get advice about "migrating" as opposed to "getting started" if you will?

[turbid bobcat]

A recruiter just sent me a message with the subject line "You're the chosen one.".

I think they're just being playful with the subject line, but I'm still tempted to ask if they're offering me the job without an interview or if I'm in the matrix lol.

[proven crest]

Your main difficulty will be with syntax:
https://learnxinyminutes.com/ can be very helpful for getting an overview. Further to that, the python documentation. Maybe start writing some simple functions to get used to the syntax, but honestly I think the documentation will be your best friend.

[proven crest]

Might be an idea to open the message and read the body to see what it says!

[hearty island]

rejected by jpm chase :(((( bc they wanted someone who starts immediately and i graduate may 24

[fringe sphinx]

I think your journey starts in the same place but will be a -lot- quicker. Grab a tutorial (see resources link below), maybe “a byte of Python” or “automate the boring stuff” and get through it, then do a small project to learn some of the ins and outs (like pip for package installation).

[peak halo]

did they offer to hire you part time until you graduate? did you ask for that arrangement?

[fringe sphinx]

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, and channel; use #python-discussion

[hearty island]

i tried that, they were insistent on me only working full time immediately

crying in da club stel :(((

[white relic]

curious they'd even interview you if your graduation date is on your resume (it is, right?) and they were going to be strict on that

[hearty island]

yep, my graduation date is on my resume. and i’m not sure why they even bothered. probably an HR screw up

[white relic]

somebody goofed

[hearty island]

anyways we move on. l3harris Wednesday, and then ||REDACTED|| on the 19th

potential for volkswagen interview to come in too

[turbid bobcat]

Oh, is about a job. But I'm not too interested. They want people with knowledge in Physics to help tune their LLM. The pay does look decent but I'm more inclined towards a coding job.

[hearty island]

idk if i even got the volkswagen interview second round smh

[peak halo]

I also got part way through the interview process with a company before HR cut me off for not having a degree and two years of experience, even though this was incredibly apparent from my resume. And they tried to make it sound like it was my fault.

(It had my graduation date, and I only listed school-related experience (and this discord server))

[hearty island]

not only was this recruiter incredibly hard to get a hold of, but she also cut me off mid sentence and hung up on me too

i was like yeah i’m in school full- and she was like yep you’re not qualified for this, sorry and she hung up

[white relic]

wow

[boreal lava]

@proven crest @fringe sphinx thank you both 🙂

[hearty island]

there ain’t a low without a high

my mom assured me i’ll get more opportunities

[white relic]

there are always more opportunities

[hearty island]

i think it’s a good sign jpmc is calling me

it means other nice companies will be interested in the future too

(hopefully)

[hearty island]

huh. got another interview.

as a biz process analyst

[keen estuary]

how did your mom assure you ?

[hearty island]

she said i'd get more interviews

[near ocean]

Lmao

[hearty island]

lolll

[near ocean]

So you got another jpmc interview?

[hearty island]

nope. some other company up in rochester

[near ocean]

Oh ok, well no worries i dont think jpmc is a nice workplace anyway

[hearty island]

idk why i'm so drawn to working there. am i the problem

[near ocean]

They pay

[hearty island]

indeed

[near ocean]

They're the world's biggest bank, its also the prestige

It'd be a good opportunity if you could manage not to want to die working there 💀

[keen estuary]

are remote jobs a lie?

[fringe sphinx]

? Do people have remote jobs?

[keen estuary]

i dont know, do they?

[fringe sphinx]

Remote jobs do exist, yes.

[keen estuary]

international?

[white relic]

I don't personally know anyone who works 100% remote on a permanent basis, but I know many people who do hybrid

[fringe sphinx]

I do know some fully remotes. If we’re just talking existence and not likelihood.

[white relic]

that is a whole different ball game.
international remote jobs certainly exist, but they are unusual

[fringe sphinx]

I had a contractor working for me for many years. Lived in Europe. But, he worked for us first in the states and he converted to fully remote contract.

[white relic]

also my team is split between US and central Europe so like... we're kind of all remote in a certain sense

[keen estuary]

looks like it's kind of closed between the US and europe

[white relic]

a disturbing number of people who bring up remote jobs seem to believe that they can just apply to US companies and get jobs paying US money while living anywhere in the world, which is by and large not the case, so in that sense, it could be a lie

[fringe sphinx]

What are you actually asking tho? If it’s likely or reasonable to find a fully remote international job? Or if they exist (but are unicorns)?

[keen estuary]

a disturbing number of people apply for jobs, is your point that most people shouldn't get hired because they're not professional enough or because they're from a non-european country

[keen estuary]

both

[white relic]

no... most (US) companies just don't hire internationally, full stop, end of story

[fringe sphinx]

Agree with trentj: in my case, we hired someone we already knew and were working with who wanted to move home to Europe. Very special case.

And he had to setup a local corporation for us to contract with.

[white relic]

if they do, it's either through the local subsidiary if the company is big enough to have that (my situation is kind of like that) or as more of a contract situation

setting up an international contract arrangement for one person would be something I'd expect to only happen for really rare talent that can't be found elsewhere

[near ocean]

im fully remote and i have a person on my team fully remote in a different country, AMA lmao

(the answer is idk just luck)

[white relic]

thank you for anticipating and answering my question

[near ocean]

the remote/different country guy is a senior, i doubt they would offer such accomodations to juniors

[true harness]

my company has a few offices, so even though my team is split up across a bunch of countries, they're not really working internationally, they just work remote to the office in their country

[white relic]

yeah

[near ocean]

do US companies in different countries hire at local rates?
i've heard that working for a US company locally is pretty lucrative, but looking at a couple of these companies and using general common sense says otherwise

[harsh river]

depends on the company, they'll try to cheap out by hiring at the rates of whatever country the person is based in

[near ocean]

lockheed martin, northrop grumman for example pay next to nothing in the UK

[true harness]

there's no reason to pay substantially more than the market rate in a specific area though. if that's cheaping out, /shrug

[near ocean]

defense contractors but they pay much better in the us

[white relic]

I think local wages is pretty standard. I work for a European company in the US so basically the opposite (US-like wages)

[near ocean]

smh, i was ready to sell my soul

[white relic]

it's overrated
or maybe my soul just wasn't worth much

compensation was good, work/life balance was good, but I quit because I didn't enjoy the work.

[near ocean]

boring/legacy or just taxing to the soul

[white relic]

mostly the first thing. but many people do struggle with the second aspect.

I didn't design nukes or SPECTRE or anything like that

[near ocean]

yea im dealing with this myself, i hope the effect it has on my work doesnt get too noticeable before we jump ship

[harsh river]

it's different when the company pays 10x more locally yet turns around and tries to pay pennies on the dollar just because the person isn't based in the US

[keen estuary]

even 500$ monthly is still a win for someone from venezuela or india. no offense

[true harness]

i don't doubt that. but the company has no incentive to pay substantially more; it's just basic economics. they would target a certain percentile of the local market, like any other company

[stuck yacht]

for a job, do u guys use fiverr, linkedin / indeed? what do u all feel is the best site to use

[white relic]

I mean, it's expensive to directly hire people internationally. Most companies aren't set up for that. Taxes, accounting, HR, blah blah blah

[true harness]

i don't get your point. the company exists to make money. paying extra for no reason doesn't help with that

[true harness]

primarily linkedin, but also handshake

[white relic]

that's why they operate through local subsidiaries, which are distinct entities and bound to the local economy and not (as much) to the US one

[keen estuary]

do they even?

[white relic]

I'm sure some do, but as I mentioned, I don't know anyone personally in that situation.

[keen estuary]

not what i meant,

probably when you hire someone from a foreign you don't do all this

[harsh river]

they have to, to operate legally.

[white relic]

you don't (do taxes and accounting and HR all in the parent company), that's what I was saying

[near ocean]

wdym? ofc you do, there's so much regulation with hiring internationally

[white relic]

you use a local company as a subsidiary, or you operate purely on a contract basis

[stuck yacht]

is this the official server for python??

[near ocean]

no, there is no official python discord server
this is the closest you can find

[maiden shore]

Hi , I am 20 Years Old
I am Male .
I am suck , can't decide what to do in Future
I learnt Basic ( python , web development , game development , Graphic Designing , Video editing , Hacking )
I don't have much Budget and Time to Spend
Just know That I want to work in Computer Field
I hate Coding ( becase of Errors )
I want to do stuff which is not booring and Don't Need any Partner for Help ( solo Work )
I Use ChatGPT for most of my Work .
Idk why I like Shortcuts

I also start Youtube , got 1K Sub . Still not Interested

i learn Very fast

[fringe sphinx]

Is there a specific question we can help with? What country are you in?

[maiden shore]

Pakistan

I will Leave after 5-6 Months
For Higher Education

[hearty island]

we love clicking broken linkedin links to jobs that no longer exist

[maiden shore]

[stuck yacht]

ohhh okaii tyy

[stuck yacht]

go into law!!!

with law, u have to study 1 year to convert from your degree to law and law firms LOVE people who have prior experience in computing so u can work in legal tech or even work in house for a big accounting firm

[maiden shore]

I have Interest in rebotics and A.i ( Machine Learning )
|| A Real Human Like rebot ||

[stuck yacht]

and law firms hire 50% law students and 50% non-law students soo 🙂

[maiden shore]

but This

[maiden shore]

@fringe sphinx

[fringe sphinx]

What is your question?

[maiden shore]

I have Interest in Rebotics and A.I ( Machine Learning )
|| A Real Human Like rebot ||
I Love Pratical Work
@fringe sphinx

[white relic]

even if this is good advice for some people, law is not a good rec for someone who is planning to move countries

[near ocean]

this is not a question

[maiden shore]

Is this any Future in this Field?

[near ocean]

yes

[stuck yacht]

it can be competitive but if u apply to a law firm from a differnet country, they will sponsor ur visa

[maiden shore]

Is it Pratical ?

[near ocean]

practical? what do you mean, for whom

[white relic]

that seems like a very broad statement with a lot of unstated "if"s

[stuck yacht]

legal tech is so big on this! u would be at the forefront and be involved with big companies, and u may also have a chance to go on legal secondments at these companies

[fringe sphinx]

Law school generally requires an undergrad degree and taking the LSAT.

[near ocean]

Do you get some kind of commission? lmao

[fringe sphinx]

And can be very expensive

[stuck yacht]

yes as national students would have citizenship so dont need their visas sponsored (im talking about the uk btw)

[near ocean]

isnt law school just a BA in the US?

[fringe sphinx]

No, law is 3 years post undergrad, afaik

[maiden shore]

What to Do if I learn Ai and Rebotics ?
Is I have to be good in Math ?

[stuck yacht]

to work in the uk, u dont

u need to do 1 year conversion course

then once u secure a training contract, they will sponsor your sqe (exams to qualify) + give you 2 years of paid practical work experience before you qualify as a solicitor

if u r eager u can try applying for scholarships

[true harness]

you need 4 years undergrad + 3 years law school

[stuck yacht]

but ofc its up to u ! do something u will be content with !

[near ocean]

huh, in the UK its just an undergrad degree

[twin frost]

anybody who want an accountability partner???

[white relic]

one of my coworkers used to be a lawyer in another country. Had to start over when they moved to US, retail and driving uber. I'm sure some people make it work but it's hardly a path I'd recommend to someone in another country with no other context about them

[stuck yacht]

sorry i was referring to the UK, im not sure about how they do it in the US

[near ocean]

i dont think the UK situation applies either tbh, they said theyre in Pakistan

[stuck yacht]

they can still do it tbh as it shouldnt really make a difference

at least im getting my messages up 😭 soon to get 50 then i can be unmuted on vcs

[near ocean]

it would cost a lot as an international student

[stuck yacht]

yah u are right, they charge like double for international students

[near ocean]

its close to 18k for tier4 visa students (per year)

[stuck yacht]

sigh if u come to the uk, come for a high paying job because they have changed it now so u need to get around 36k ish to secure a skilled worker visa, and u need 40k to bring a partner to the uk

[white relic]

I strongly suspect you're overestimating the odds of an arbitrary international student being chosen to hire and sponsor a visa for by a law company in the UK

[near ocean]

just dont come to the UK, not much on offer lmao

[white relic]

at least, I wouldn't recommend it as a winning career plan, unless you've got a solid backup

[near ocean]

why spend money to come here and live paycheck to paycheck when you could do that at home

[stuck yacht]

perhaps, i just know and have seen a lot of international students getting hired so its just a biased opinion ogc

but the uk is amazing!

but yah i agree with u guys

[fringe sphinx]

This really has nothing to do with OPs question/interests anyway.

[stuck yacht]

what is op ? sorry new to this server

[hearty island]

original person/poster

[stuck yacht]

ohh okay thank you

[fringe sphinx]

Math and Programming. Practice and learn both: find a way to get excited and find the fun in both.

[fringe sphinx]

It takes time to get good at both: practice programming, talk/learn in #python-discussion , and work towards your university degree. This will require math: not too much.

[tiny wigeon]

so what do you ask on a medior level interview for a python engineer

[white relic]

depends on the candidate, I usually try to find common ground between something they have done and something I have done, and then build questions on that to probe their knowledge of programming

[tiny wigeon]

according to their CV theyve spent 3+ years in a bunch of technologies like python, asyncio, js/reactjs, docker, k8s, which we use (js/jquery, not react), but like, i dont think any specific questions come up to my mind

[white relic]

like, if someone did a project on electronic circuit analysis, I'd ask how they modeled the circuit and did you use any graph traversal algorithms and could you tell me about a problem you faced with the design

and just kind of go from there, I rarely write questions in advance

[tiny wigeon]

like, i guess i can ask what docker is, what k8s, how it works, maybe if they know some git commands and what they do, and for python ask maybe about multithreading/multiprocessing, GIL... and im out of questions really

but i already feel like these questions regarding python are more like, junior level, and dont really offer anything constructive
i guess im supposed to find some code we use, clean it up and ask the guy what it does / to debug it / how to debug it

[white relic]

like 50% of the problem in interviewing someone is finding the overlap between your areas of knowledge to give them a chance to show you they really do know what they're talking about

at least 50%

[hearty island]

should i be worried ||REDACTED|| hasn't sent me an invite link for an interview? they said the interview would be on the 19th

are they taking their sweet time or something?

[tiny wigeon]

i mean i guess it doesnt have to be too deep, or have too many questions, but i feel like it should take at least 15 minutes,
im supposed to handle just the technical questions, while my manager deals with the generic part of the interview

[deft herald]

Was it already scheduled to be on the 19th? I wouldn't worry about it. That's still over a week away

[hearty island]

yeah, it was already scheduled then. they talked to me over a phone call

[deft herald]

Maybe reach out the (business) day before if they still haven't sent a link

[hearty island]

so like monday then, the 18th

[deft herald]

sure

[hearty island]

i hope nothing's fallen into the cracks

[deft herald]

I'm sure it hasn't. When was the phone call that set up the 19th interview?

[hearty island]

last wednesday 😬

i just assumed something would come by now

this is a very mysterious uh place that can just disappear and materialize on you

and i've read horror stories of them doing things and leaving people out in the cold

[white relic]

it wouldn't be rude to send a follow up and ask, personally I'd probably wait until Friday or Monday, but if it's distressing you, imo just email them and ask for clarification

[deft herald]

I mean it's not too late to send a follow up email if you're that worried about it. "Hey just wanted to say thanks for the call last week. I'm also confirming the video interview we set up for the 19th at XX:XX.
Best regards, Damian"

[hearty island]

maybe i'll call them tomorrow. they don't want emails apparently according to their portal email to me

[deft herald]

🤔 huh

[hearty island]

ik, sorta sus but i promise it's not a scam

they do indeed like their discretion

[daring roost]

Hi, i want to learn AI related stuff with Python, how could i start? (things like Machine learning, deep learning, etc)

[hearty island]

try #data-science-and-ml 's resources pinned, they have nice ones there. i'd get a good foundation in math and python programming too.

[daring roost]

Thanks

[gaunt mason]

what is the biggest difficulty in a job research/application process in your opinion?

[turbid bobcat]

Getting interviews consistently. I feel like if you are able to do that it's only a matter of time til you get hired.

[vapid jay]

Hey guys I’m registering my courses for university, this will be my first semester and I was wondering if you could advice me on this:

1. CS-1910-01: Computer Science I
2. CS-1910L-04: Computer Science 1910 Lab
3. IKE-1040-10: Indigenous Teachings (Waitlisted)
4. MATH-1910-03: Single Variable Calculus I
5. MATH-2610-02: Linear Algebra I
6. MATH-1910T-03: Math 1910 Tutorial
7. HIST-2420-01: US Hist. Since Reconstruction

[true harness]

that's a lot of courses

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, what??

Calc 1 and linear at same time?

[regal axle]

This is a really bad idea for your first semester. While some people can pull it off. Do not do it for your first semester. Also, just don't take that many at once in general. Aim for 15 credits max per semester. 18 is the absolute max you should do. I know people who did 21 .... but I have never seen good results from doing that (they did it due to financial reasons)

[fringe sphinx]

I guess maybe if op already took calc in HS, and knew programming, but couldn’t test out that’d be different

[vapid jay]

You guys are right, hahah I know programming and I’m good at math but this is too much and I’m conscious, I was wondering then, should I go for 15 straight or can I do maybe 12 credits?

[fringe sphinx]

What school? Have you looked at the curriculum map?

[true harness]

if there's no financial cost, i would just go for it tbh. you can withdraw if it gets to be too much, probably

[fringe sphinx]

Im surprised no science in there tho, most freshman end up with a science.

[peak halo]

how many credits is this? and are you sure that Math 1910 isn't a prerequisite for Math 2610?

[noble pendant]

@atomic ibex Hey man, I want to thank you again for all your help a while ago. I was just promoted to Software Developer with a 15% pay increase. Id love to catch up with you some time to thank you directly. If you are free please id love for you to reach out so I can repay you for everything you have done for me. I tried to DM you but it seems you have limitations on MSGs. seriously would love to repay you. Please reach out my man. You are the reason I am where i am today and i wouldnt have kept pushing myself if it wasn't for that 1 night you spend 6 hours helping me ona side project. Seriously You deserve Praise.

[safe coral]

Heres my schedule for Spring semester 😄

[noble pendant]

If anyone has contact with @atomic ibex please reach out to him for me. I want to thank him directly.

[violet burrow]

Sorry in advance if I put this message in the wrong place. I know that many of you have graduated from Uni or are in Uni, so I wanted to ask:
MacBook Pro vs Windows for CE/CS?
I’m planning on getting a MacBook Pro M3 pro (12 core cpu, 36gb ram, 1tb ssd) or some high end gaming laptop. I already have a pretty good pc. Idk if it’s going to come with me to college though. I could always just run a virtual machine on the Mac right?

[pine sleet]

it doesn't really matter too much

many universities would recommend a Windows laptop but that's mostly cause university IT services can provide help if you need it, but if you're technically adept that might not be necessary

• some classes might require you to use some windows only programs but if you know your way around virtual machines you should be fine

[vapid jay]

How do senior engineers introduce themselves to stakeholders.

[solar sedge]

@hollow stratus Can any one help me get referral ?

[vapid jay]

Pre AI I would say you're out of your mind. If you get good at using AI to learn you'd be able to follow that schedule.

AI saves so much time. Not because its a tool for cheating. AI is a very good search engine that helps you gain knowledge faster.

If you have to work part or full time Id put way less time in school

[vapid jay]

What is a great Career Path for python

[buoyant seal]

the one that plays to your strength and you are able to like 😅 liking a thing u learn makes 5x times bonuses to speed up its learning

[silk whale]

Hey guys I was just wondering
If I learn python, which I am currently doing, what can one become with it🤔
Is there anything like a python engineer?

[regal axle]

Yes and no. There are lots of positions that have you primarily use python. However, a good engineer is able to do more than just a single language. They are not tied down to one framework. They just might have a preference.
What type of work do you think you want to do?

[silk whale]

Well currently studying software engineering, 1st semester and we're doing something with python at the moment. I was then thinking of what I'll specialise in later in the future. Cause you can't actually be a "software engineer" . What kind of software engineer are you? Those kind of questions kept popping up in my head that's why I asked if one can be a python engineer. I've been watching some vids on cloud computing and DevOps but I don't know if it's an entry level position
Do you have any ideas 💡 🤔

[jaunty prawn]

When I was in college I thought I was going to be a Python Engineer, but my first job ended up using programming languages I never looked at or studied before.

[silk whale]

What do you do 🤔

[jaunty prawn]

It's backend API integration in visual basic. The job title was actually just Software Engineer

[silk whale]

What do you use for that? Python or another language

And how were you able to learn the language on the job?

[jaunty prawn]

The language is called visual basic and I didn't know it existed before I applied to the job. I just picked it up while working

[silk whale]

Oh I see. Do you have any knowledge on cloud computing or something related to it

[jaunty prawn]

No I've never heard of it

[white relic]

I mean, you can very much be "just" a software engineer in that when you graduate you have no idea what you will end up doing and apply to all kinds of software engineering jobs. You don't need to specialize yet: cultivate a variety of interests and have broad skills so that you can take what opportunities come up. When you graduate college it is easy and useful to be a generalist. It gets harder to maintain that as you progress in your career.

[wide sentinel]

hi everyone

[silk whale]

But isn't it better to find where to specialise in so that you just don't end up learning what you're never going to use 🤔

[white relic]

There's some part of it you're never going to use. You don't know yet which part

Before you have found at least your first real job, you don't even really know what you need or don't need to know. And even twelve years into your career you might not know when a thing you studied in college or did a quick project on might just pop up

[brazen island]

I might also add that being a generalist means you're more qualified for certain roles but also less qualified for others

[white relic]

You improve your odds of getting a job if you apply to a variety of openings. You never know. I had a coworker who was hired out of college, I think he did a lot of web stuff. We hired him to write C++. Hadn't touched c++ since freshman year. Didn't really matter, since he was a competent engineer and he had to be trained in what we were doing anyway

[brazen island]

For instance, in smaller teams you have a wider range of responsibilities. You might be responsible for front-end, backend, a bit of deployment etc. This can be fulfilling because you have a stronger sense of building a product in the end-to-end sense, but you and up having less deep specialisation etc.

[white relic]

Personally I think 3-5 years in to your career is where it starts getting hard to pivot. But I'm in hardware

[silk whale]

Why I'm really asking is that I don't just wanna learn a bunch of stuff and at the end of the day, I can't stick to anyone or I can't master anyone

Sometimes it really helps to know and understand where you're heading to. That's what I'm still trying to figure out 😅

[fallow bay]

Are you serious, visual basic

[brazen island]

Patience and an open mind is key especially since you don't have a specific thing you want to do yet. Your situation is very common, I remember when I was graduating the vast majority didn't know what they wanted to do either but they turned out perfectly fine

[fallow bay]

Wtf are you talking a about

[brazen island]

I tagged the wrong person, relax. That message was meant for @silk whale

[quiet ruin]

So I'm graduating college soon and I'm kinda looking for a software job nothing specific but kinda prefer like a data analysis type of role since I know sql along with python so currently I'm just looking for enthusiasts for whom I wanna work for free for the experience and to have a fun time... Am I doing it wrong or is this the way to go?

(I'm sorry if I violate any guidelines by asking this I'll just delete the msg if it's inappropriate)

[white relic]

this channel isn't really for finding work, but if you want advice on your situation, perhaps you could find some interesting open source projects to contribute to?

those look nice on a resume.
when are you graduating?

[quiet ruin]

That's exactly the kind of reply I was looking for ..thanks
I'm graduating around march

[quiet ruin]

I just mostly wanted to get the feeling of working in teams and have a fun time at the same time improving my skills

[white relic]

that sounds like a great plan. Lots of open source projects always need volunteer help.

[proper oxide]

how hard is it to get an remote ML internship as an y/o xd? at what skill level do you have to be

[slate sapphire]

hey, after learning the majority of python what would be the first step in getting a job using this language?

[tribal river]

Hello, Is it possible that senior developer with excellent skills have no jobs now? Possible here, Please DM, I can tell you my story. 😊

[fallow bay]

Sure but i wasnt even mad lol

[white relic]

FWIW, "wtf are you talking about" sounds pretty confrontational to my ear. "What are you responding to?" or even just "context?" would be less aggressive in tone.

[hearty island]

this hiring slowdown is making me sad, but i'm focused on upskilling myself rn

huge interview for l3harris tomorrow 🙂

[white relic]

An excellent first step for anyone who can is to go to university and pursue a degree in CS, Software Engineering or a related discipline

[silk whale]

Is python used in machine learning?

[hearty island]

i called up [REDACTED] and it went to voicemail. they prob aren't in the office yet.

[white relic]

probably

[hearty island]

gonna keep my do not disturb off for the day. ugh i should've clarified with them when the interview link would come. but ig this is good bc it shows i do want the job

[fallow bay]

Ah sorry if you read it like that, its the style of how we talk here(not the server) but i wil upgrade it to a nicer lvl:) (also sorry for the wacky english lol)

[true harness]

i think you're missing the number. but generally internships are reserved for college students, and remote tends to be rare

[white relic]

Understandable, people have different ways of using English. It can be hard to strike the right tone with strangers from across the world, especially in a text based medium

[fallow bay]

I think thats the perfect way to describe it

[safe stream]

Hello, is it okay to take a career break to focus on portfolio projects? I shifted careers this year and I've been applying for a few months now and the market is really tough, even companies hiring for entry level jobs in my country are looking for candidates with years of experience, so I was thinking maybe I should focus on finishing my projects first and then once I'm done I could start applying again. Would that be a good career decision or would that just sabotage my chances of landing a developer role?

[fringe sphinx]

There's no "opportunity cost" to applying for jobs while working on portfolio & practicing... what's the downside to doing both?

[true harness]

less time for either

[final sinew]

Please any body teach me while loop or for loop in python
I don't understand 😕 really 😢

[hearty island]

try #❓｜how-to-get-help or #python-discussion

[white relic]

Yes, but there are serious diminishing returns to spending multiple hours a day applying to jobs

If you're unemployed and making jobhunting your full time occupation, it makes sense to spend ~half that time on making yourself more skilled

[hearty island]

i called the recruiter, she said ah sorry about going silent, your interview link will be coming 2 days or so before your interview

that makes me breathe a sigh of relief

i was worried bc i read some concerning stuff

[gritty rivet]

It's not clear to me but I think you might be asking about leaving a steady job to spend more time working on your portfolio?

A lot depends on a) your finances and how long you can keep that up and b) whether you have a clear plan that you are confident will lead to a strong portfolio in significantly less time then that

Not a great time in the tech job market right now so that increases the risk of such a strategy. We don't know if or when that will change.

Most likely you want to keep working wherever you can and keep slowly but steadily working towards your career goals on the side

[slate sapphire]

yea that’s my current plan, going to university for software engineering

but i’m not sure what the route is to a job in it from there

[fringe sphinx]

Pretty straightforward: while working on your degree, you’ll want to: gain experience (preferably through summer internships) and do projects / portfolio work in the side to get more hands on experience. Do those, and you’ll be in good shape to land a post graduation job

[slate sapphire]

thank you, another worry i have is that the course i’m looking at currently doesn’t use python it instead using C++

[fringe sphinx]

Is this a university degree program or smthing else?

[white relic]

C++ is a common general purpose language and you will learn a lot studying it. It's a good idea to also know other stuff like Python that you study on the side.

[slate sapphire]

university yes

[slate sapphire]

so i should learn both?

[white relic]

I would advise it. Virtually all software engineers know at least a few different languages and it's not uncommon for the one you use primarily at work to not be the one you studied most in school

[fringe sphinx]

You’ll likely learn both in a university program. Most students touch 3-4 languages over 4 years, from what I’ve seen.

Python or Java, C/C++, a functional language, and probably a little js and/or sql

[slate sapphire]

i think the course is C++, PHP and java

[white relic]

I was an engineering student. I learned Java, MATLAB, VHDL and three flavors of assembly language in various classes. Python was something I did for fun.

I'd hope most CS programs would cover at least three or four different programming languages.

[slate sapphire]

aight, thanks for the advice guys

[hearty island]

@white relic , would it be too extreme to ask a recruiter abt my uhg status?

i had the interview on november 20th. i have the phone number of one of the recruiters involved in the hiring process, a recruiting operations specialist

[hearty island]

what do i do

[white relic]

IMO a followup call at this point would be totally normal and professional. Go for it

[hearty island]

ok, sounds good

[abstract escarp]

im 20 years old and im thinking of getting my cert from a university it would be in computer info systems or cyber security does this pay well? and can i get a decent job with a couple years expiernce and just a certificate not a degree? Thanks to anyone who responds

[severe inlet]

Are there niches in Python development with high demand, and shortage of developers? Interesting tasks that people pay for, but there are no developers flocking to complete those tasks?

[hearty island]

done, she said to write an email to her and she'll forward it to the assigned recruiter to see what's going on. maybe i'll get some news or something

some clarification is always good

[white relic]

Niches with high demand often occur at the intersection of software development and some other highly skilled area with a lot of money floating around. Finance, for example

[night dock]

what's the command for typing python again?
'''py

'''
doesn't work

[fringe sphinx]

!code but you probably should be pasting code in #python-discussion , not here

[inner wren]

Formatting code on discord

Here's how to format Python code on Discord:

```py
print('Hello world!')
```

These are backticks, not quotes. Check this out if you can't find the backtick key.

For long code samples, you can use our pastebin.

[night dock]

ok will do thanks

[plain trench]

I need to get back into Coding for School. We are learning Python. We haven't learnt much yet but over the XMAS Period. Can anyone reccomend where to start as I need to learn a bit.

[solar garden]

`

not '

also #python-discussion

[night dock]

yeah thanks for the reply. I got confused with the two keys haha

[solar garden]

np

[gaunt mason]

thanks for your reply

[stable coral]

print('Hello world!')

print('Hello world!')

[peak halo]

@stable coral please use #bot-commands for testing

[stable coral]

ok sorry

im new here

[vapid jay]

They do not have one that’s the thing, I’m waiting till my advisor answers me to check it out

[fringe sphinx]

Do you mind sharing the school name?

(No worries if not, I’m just usually good at sleuthing the curriculum)

[vapid jay]

No worries I don’t care, it’s the university of Prince Edward Island

[white relic]

you got some answers saying this was a heavy course load, but it seems pretty normal to me tbh. My first semester was 18 credit hours and it wasn't the hardest by a long shot. Calc 1 and CS 1 shouldn't be that bad. linalg and calc at the same time maybe you'll be doing a lot of math homework. What raises my eyebrow is Indigenous Teachings and US History because those both seem like they'd involve a lot of writing and that's the kind of homework that always took me the longest to do

[vapid jay]

The indigenous one is mandatory and the other one simply to fulfill, all the other mandatory ones are full so idk if I should drop that one

[white relic]

you generally want to get gen ed requirements out of the way early on, so you can have fewer credit hours later on when you are taking high level technical courses

[true harness]

other advice i've heard is that you want to save some geneds, because they're easier, to take along with your high level courses. i personally don't subscribe to this theory, but i know some people that do

[white relic]

at least, that was my strategy.
saved my physical activity elective for last so I could take Fishing my senior year

Yeah I guess it depends on which gened

[vapid jay]

Cs 1 algebra and calculus are my requirements also ike is mandatory

[true harness]

personally, i find them interesting generally, but they take way longer for me to do. i'm trying to finish them all early

[vapid jay]

These are my common core ones:
MATH 1910 Single Variable Calculus I

MATH 1920 Single Variable Calculus II

MATH 2610
Linear Algebra I

STAT 1910 Intro to Probability and Statistics

CS 1910 Computer Science I

CS 1920 Computer Science II

[white relic]

Exactly this. Time spent in class is not the most important metric compared to time spent on assignments

[true harness]

i mean, especially since most of my time in class is just doing other stuff. i technically am doing 18 credits right now, but most of my time as of late has been doing AoC. before aoc started it would have been working on projects, other coursework, etc

[white relic]

Calculus shouldn't be the kind of class where you spend hours and hours working on the weekly problem set

[true harness]

actually this semester i decided i should do the homework problems. it was actually surprising how much my grade increased on the exams 😩. each week is about 2 hours of homework for me

[white relic]

Ultimately it depends on your school. You should ask older students what they think of your schedule and put more weight on their opinions than those of the Internet

[true harness]

though, you may get biased responses from underperforming students 😬. all the ratemyprof and similar are filled with bad students 😔

[fringe sphinx]

My usual speech here is about how calculus is hard because of poor algebra mastery.

[vapid jay]

Thank you very much tho

[white relic]

I went to a small uni and lived in a dorm with a mixture of upper and underclassmen and it was really great because you had friends who knew the profs and had taken the courses and you could just drop by when the door was open and say, hey, what's so-and-so's class like? I don't know how students communicate with each other in big schools where all the freshmen are packed in the same dorm and people move off campus as soon as possible

[brazen island]

I don't know if this is a thing stateside but we had websites where the coursework and potentially summaries were of previous years so you could always look at those to get an idea what the course is teaching.

[fringe sphinx]

Also, here's the curriculum page... https://www.upei.ca/programs/computer-science#section21264

[vapid jay]

Ye, thank you, the think is they do not have like the recommendations for it, I’m trying to contact advisors but is taking way too long

[fringe sphinx]

Have you taken calc in high school?

[vapid jay]

Yep

[white relic]

Yeah that seems reasonable.

Total Semester Hours of Credit 120
That's 15 hours a semester on average over 4 years, so if you want to have a lighter 12-hour load when you're taking your hard classes later on, you're going to have to take an 18 or two now.

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, then yah, linear + calc 1 seems fine (agree with trentj). Make look at the common breadth requirements... it looks like you're taking 8 credits "outside the faculty of science", which is more than you're required to, if I read that right. Oh, maybe it is 6 actually, if they're 3 credits each.

[white relic]

Of course, summer classes/taking more than 8 semesters to finish is another path to success.

[vapid jay]

So I should drop the history one and put something about science better right?

[fringe sphinx]

Probably up to you, but maybe spread the double history out? You need 6 outside Science and an additional 9 outside Math & CS... so, that's like two histories & 3 sciences (for instance)... or a history + finance + 3 sciences. Maybe look at the courses and figure out what you want / are interested in?

[vapid jay]

I was thinking about finance too but it’s all full already

There’s a waitlist for those

[fringe sphinx]

Finance is a good one for CS majors, good crossover

[wind cedar]

is hs experience that is cs related useless for new grad swe recruiting?

[fringe sphinx]

You mean, should you list any CS stuff from HS on a resume? I’ve seen it in some resumes. Not terribly helpful, as I’d hope your last 4 years tell the story.

[wind cedar]

wb on linkedin?

[vapid jay]

Yes but the problem is that it’s all full 😔

[fringe sphinx]

It’s a pretty flexible program, find stuff you’re interested in

[true harness]

generally yes. you have 4 years of college, surely that overshadows whatever you've done in high school?

[vapid jay]

Also what do you think about biotech? Because I’m really interested in that but idk if the first semester is a good time to pull it up

[fringe sphinx]

My school philosophy was/is: take courses in whatever subject you know the least. (and are interested in)

[pine sleet]

same deal there

[pseudo bone]

hey, im currently in first year in hg, i've been self learning Python for like a year and half and rn in scholl we are learning HTML+CSS and C# (just basics) but in the future I would love to learn scripting/robotics or like a ML (I know that for ML is Python optimal but I want to learn something new), so, do u guys have any suggestions on programming languages with that in mind (I was thinking maybe C++ or Java idk tho)

[pine sleet]

it doesn't matter too much. After your first couple languages it's really easy to pick up new ones. focus on exploring what sort of stuff you like doing, build projects, and keep your grades up

[pseudo bone]

got you bro, but i heard u need to like allocate memory and stuff in C++, so I guess that would be kind of hard to wrap my mind around when i was just doing Python xdd

[pine sleet]

It could be. But it's not too hard to pick up

[pseudo bone]

what do u think is better for like robotics/ML tho? C++ or Java?

[pine sleet]

robotics and machine learning are a lot more than just the language you use. probably just depends on where

[pseudo bone]

yeah i mean u are right

thanks a lot tho bro

[pine sleet]

pretty much all of software engineering is more than just the language, tbh. any guy off the street could learn conditionals and loops and a language syntax if they wanted to

[wind cedar]

python for ml, robotics it doesnt matter

[pseudo bone]

yeah i guess so

[vapid jay]

That’s beautiful, thank you

[abstract escarp]

Do I need a degree to land a decent job or can I just get a certificate from a university? PLEASE ANSWER

[pine sleet]

You usually need a bachelor's degree, though what exactly do you mean by "certificate from a university"?

[abstract escarp]

A coding certificate is 1 year of school and a in depth to the study

[pine sleet]

interesting

I haven't heard of that before, but yeah generally you'll want a 4 year degree

[abstract escarp]

Okay thank you

[fringe sphinx]

The problem with these questions is "decent job" could mean anything. Usually, here, we're talking about Software Engineering jobs... but there are many jobs in tech, like QA, Support and ops, with much lower degree requirements.

[abstract escarp]

Even if you have a lot of experience?

[abstract escarp]

Cybersecurity mainly

[pine sleet]

many CS grads also have lots of experience, including internships. Think: "why should a hiring manager hire me over this other person?"

[abstract escarp]

Thank you

[true harness]

after you have a lot of experience, the formal education tends to matter less. but it's almost never "hire the person with experience or hire the person with formal education"; people with formal education have an easier time getting jobs when they don't have experience

[wind cedar]

is it a good idea to add projects to github to help with new grad swe recruiting?

[pine sleet]

it is, especially if your project is presented nicely (i.e good documentation, tests, proper commit messages, workflows, etc)

small things like that leave an impression on whoever is looking at it, though they usually won't in the early stages

[violet magnet]

is this good to put on my resume

[near ocean]

Is that a foreign language or am I having a stroke right now

[violet magnet]

the unobfuscated one is at divsel.neocities.org