career-advice

[regal axle]

I mean that’s dependent on you. But you could

[peak halo]

I suppose it's possible, but most prospective employers aren't going to see a bootcamp as equivalent to a university degree program

so if we expand your question to "how likely am I to get a generally favorable outcome from having completed a bootcamp", I would say "less likely than you probably think"

[gritty rivet]

Most recentish bootcamp grads I know who managed to find jobs in the industry, including myself, have remote jobs

Most of us also have degrees and professional experience in other fields, and are US citizens. If either of those doesn't apply to you it may be another story

Many bootcamp grads can't find jobs at all in the job current market and it's hard enough for people with experience

It's not so much about bootcamp vs traditional CS degree, a lot of SWE jobs are fully remote now, but it's harder if you're not willing to consider hybrid or in-person

[cobalt moat]

how can a university prevent students from finishing a year, transfering, and then just not paying the outstanding bill

[hearty island]

loans?

[white relic]

with most kinds of debt, if you stop making payments, you will start getting mail, phone calls, hits to your credit score, and eventually get sent to collections

the exact details would depend on who you owe money to

[near ocean]

i would think universities take this kind of thing very seriously

[hearty island]

they'll break your kneecaps /s, but they must have ways around this in case someone attempts it

[summer roost]

I suspect this depends on the country you're in

[white relic]

my university required payment either in full at the beginning of the semester or you could do it in payments throughout the year, but generally, if you finished the year without paying for it, it was because you got a loan from a third party. Not the university itself

[true harness]

yeah. the deadline for paying at my school is well before the semester ends

[white relic]

universities aren't banks

[summer roost]

yeah, that's what I'd expect in the US.

[cobalt moat]

so is there any protection for students in USA from unversity overcharging and or filling the bill with random charges that either shouldnt have been on there or were deceptively hidden?

[near ocean]

ask for an itemized bill 💀

[cobalt moat]

it already is

[near ocean]

what kind of charges are you worried about then? you should talk to student financing people or a lawyer

[cobalt moat]

well i have duplicate charges, charges for services/things that the university obviously makes obscene profit margins off of, and charges that i was never told existed

that and a overall lack of recieving the services i paid for

i feel there is nothing i can do and i get screwed on a daily basis

[summer roost]

this doesn't seem like a career related question. If you believe your university defrauded you, I'd suggest consulting with a lawyer

[cobalt moat]

you right

[summer roost]

if you're considering just not paying, note that the school can prevent you from getting a degree until you've settled up, and that student loans are one of the few types of debt that can't be discharged by bankruptcy in the US

[cobalt moat]

was just curious if there are any systems in place that keeps these things in check

[summer roost]

I'd assume so, since I've never really heard of universities ripping students off, but I'm not sure what

[true harness]

i suspect your definition of being ripped off will differ from the school's

[white relic]

Some lawyers will be willing to hear you out and tell you whether or not they think you have a case. Don't know how that generally works myself

[smoky quest]

At the end of the day, it's about the agreement betwen both parties and the law

[fringe sphinx]

I think Sarati has brought this up before; just feeling like college is <not> what they expected it to be. Don’t think this really is a serious consideration

[smoky quest]

I assume there is a negation somewhere

[cobalt moat]

if i can get my transfer credit through to my next school i aint paying this one

is it worth finding someone high up in the university chain and emailing them a giant list of how the university is screwing me (politely ofc) to give them a chance to make it right or should i just quietly transfer

[true harness]

that sounds mildly illegal

[cobalt moat]

just hurts me to transfer cause the school im at is suppose to be the flagship of the state

[cobalt moat]

the not paying them or the email

[smoky quest]

it depends on who and the expected outcome. It may end up in a "sir this is a wendy" reaction though

[cobalt moat]

true

[white relic]

How do you transfer credits if you owe the school money? Don't you need to send a transcript to the transfer school?

[true harness]

at my school, you would have "holds". things you can't do because you have an outstanding balance

[white relic]

Same. Didn't remember that until you said the name though

[cobalt moat]

is there a recommended title of someone i can email

if i email a specific department i am going to get some 18 year old copy pasting an auto response

[smoky quest]

Ask them directly. Say you have some complaints and would like to know to whom you should address them

[fringe sphinx]

If you think you have some basis or cause for a complaint, than (as already suggested) seek legal counsel. I doubt anyone would care to consider what you have to say otherwise.

[cobalt moat]

i hate that college is still required

a year of online courses provides a better education and magitudes cheaper

[smoky quest]

that's a spicy take

[vital wyvern]

Whether or not you agree with the level of education you received, until you involve lawyers, whatever you say isn't going to matter regardless.

With the slight asterisk that mistaken charges may be resolvable without legal counsel.

[white relic]

thank you for correcting that
it was annoying me, but I didn't want to be obnoxious by pointing out a tiny misspelling

[vital wyvern]

It took me three edits. 🥴

[white relic]

I only noticed one 🤣

[summer roost]

this would be the responsibility of the bursar's department

[gritty rivet]

To get transfer credit you will need an official transcript to be sent out, and to get that you will need to pay off your bill

[harsh remnant]

What is a framework

[shell grail]

data science major career prospects?

[vapid jay]

Best field IMO

Data Engineering is insatiable

[harsh remnant]

Yep

[charred lance]

I just keep striving for now

[rapid holly]

okey so i got 1 month untill uni start do u guys think i can learn enough JS till then so i can get a entry level job and pay for uni??

[smoky quest]

nope

[south hazel]

2month?

[lost glade]

Do you guys think computer science market are going to be very saturated and competitive in the future?

like anyone is able to learn it online in a short time

[mint oracle]

I Think after covid tech market is saturated and become very competitive!

[south hazel]

Not in a short time but, nowadays there isn't lack of resources

[lost glade]

Yeah, I have the options of continuing cs or accounting

I do have a passion for cs but knowing there is a possibility of being jobless in the future scares me

[white relic]

Every field comes with a possibility of being jobless

[lost glade]

Yeah I get that but I have to make a choice rn

[white relic]

I don't know why accounting would be safer than CS

[lost glade]

goverment jobs, big 4 companies

Would CS jobs oppurtunity also depend on the country your living in?

[white relic]

Virtually all opportunities depend on the country you're living in

[lost glade]

quite stressed

[white relic]

Oh, you mean like... legal stuff with accounting and it being location dependent?

[lost glade]

yea

[white relic]

I would assume not nearly to the same extent, but I don't know accounting

[lost glade]

Do you have a job relating to CS?

and what did you study in collage

[hidden bloom]

"A 10 minute passion presentation. This can be on anything related to security and technology and should reflect your personal interests. " Do you think that doing a presentation on Monero for 10 minutes would be bad? This is for an entry level cyber security internship

[white relic]

My major was computer engineering. I now research superconducting electronics. CS is a part of my job but my situation is not typical

[lost glade]

Hmm Do you think its better to follow your passion

Im in highschool rn, and pretty much Im doing everything, Im doing robotics, Im learning cybersecurity by myself, and just coding fun things in python

And Im pretty good at math so, I could prob say I have many options to contienue

[mint oracle]

So what's ur job? companies pays u to for research That's a cool job u r job is like making prototype of making superconductors chips ?

[white relic]

I would expect presenting on something you have done, a school project you enjoyed or something like that, would be better than just an informational presentation about something you like. Do you have some kind of connection like that with Monero?

[white relic]

Basically yeah. I'm myself in design and testing, I don't make the chips

[mint oracle]

Company? so u have more than 10yrs exp. am i right?

[lost glade]

Crazy nice job ngl are you making a nice comfortable salary while at it?

[white relic]

People have different ideas about what a comfortable salary would be. I know people who make quite a bit more. I have been shocked at how much people get sometimes as starting pay at big companies in HCOL areas

[spring ivy]

bruh uni tuition costs too much man

[lost glade]

successfull tech dudes always drive a tesla

[white relic]

But I'm doing well just to be in this field without a PhD and I prefer living in Florida to silicon valley

[spring ivy]

its like either pay 100k$ for good uni, or go to some tier 9 uni which no one knows about and whose deadline has already passed

[white relic]

My professional details aren't really secret but I'm just careful about advertising them in discord

[mint oracle]

u r a computer graduate u did both bachelors and masters?ur master in electronics?

[white relic]

Nope. BS only

[mint oracle]

Okay! Great!

[white relic]

Was really going to try going for the master's this year but real life had other plans

[lost glade]

Do you think continuing for master's is good when you have already landed a good job?

[white relic]

When you have already landed a good job is exactly the best time to continue your education

[mint oracle]

how will u manage both ?

[white relic]

Suffering

[lost glade]

elaborate please I dont understand why you would do that huhu

[white relic]

Lots of people do it. I have known people to get PhDs while working full time too

[mint oracle]

money gives u freedom

[lost glade]

what jobs would you get with a PhD?

[mint oracle]

i think research based

[lost glade]

ngl if i ever like land on a job where I can pay rent, and live a comfortable life id would prob just settle down

[white relic]

Many companies offer some form of tuition assistance if you are continuing your education in a field related to what they do

[mint oracle]

With a condition

[white relic]

Sure, you will often have to stay with the company for 2 years or something like that

[lost glade]

When do you think you are going to settle down and idk like build a family lul

[white relic]

As I said earlier, my situation is not typical. I wouldn't recommend most people go for a PhD. But in my field I'm one of the few without one

[lost glade]

Is student debt going to be a big problem

[white relic]

That is highly dependent on your specific situation

[mint oracle]

what is the duration of phd program?

[white relic]

If by settle down you mean stop trying to improve myself, I hope never

[lost glade]

Wouldent you be very much stressed, burnt out

[white relic]

It just depends. 2 years is the shortest I've heard of

[true harness]

if you're going to be working at the same time, it's probably going to be longer too

[white relic]

I hope not. Enjoying what I do helps. Having a life outside of work also helps. People manage stress differently.

[light bolt]

Are there any institutions like University of the People that offer Bachelors and Masters programs free or at lowest prices?

[harsh river]

community colleges

[true harness]

community colleges typically don't even offer bachelor's. they're for transferring to a 4 year school, maybe with an associates

[harsh river]

o.0 in my state they do.

[gritty rivet]

Eww, like with kids? No thanks. Pretty sure you wouldn't see me on Discord if I had little brats to deal with.

Seriously though, my only advice to you at this point would be to keep following those interests and try to go to the best university you can. If you do good work in any technical field you will have good options, whatever you choose. The rest will work out in time.

I'm someone who took a different path and changed careers into tech pretty late. That's fine too. Changing careers multiple times is not unusual these days. So do not feel like you absolutely must pick the correct major in college or anything like that.

[hidden bloom]

Other then the fact that I use it no...

I daily drive arch linux and graphene OS shld i do it on that instead?

Or shld i talk about kali linux even tho i dont use it

[gritty rivet]

I think this just depends on wherever you see the most interesting security angle.

[hidden bloom]

Ig grapheneos is more security based for linux there r better security distros like kali or qubes

I run hardened android os called graphene on my degoogled pixel its all for sedurity privacy is that a better topic than xmr?

[gritty rivet]

It's hard for us to tell you what's a better topic. For one thing, we're not in your class and don't have the context to know what's most relevant.

Both sound pretty viable. If you're having trouble deciding, explore them each a little further.

Asking the prof may also be a good idea. Maybe outline the key points you think you want to cover on one or both of these topics and request some feedback

[hidden bloom]

This isnt for school its a part time role for students outside of school and this is like final stage interview but ya thx

[drifting ingot]

Hello everyone! A question, how useful is python?

[harsh river]

ask the question in #python-discussion

[near ocean]

It pays the bills

[drifting ingot]

Isn't the python oversaturated as people here claim?

[near ocean]

No

[drifting ingot]

Neat! That is what I wanted to hear

[faint egret]

hello

[zealous fiber]

Can a minor get a programming language certificate or something?

[peak halo]

perhaps, but why do you want to get one? what do you think that will afford you?

[zealous fiber]

Idk for my future ig

[peak halo]

your time would be orders-of-magnitude better spent doing well in school, then

[zealous fiber]

If I need to find a job

[peak halo]

it's exceptionally rare to get a programming job as a minor, since it's hard to convince adults that a teenager can deliver a work product that their own work depends on.

[zealous fiber]

No that's not what I meant

[harsh river]

i don't know of any certificates for programming languages that hold any weight.

[zealous fiber]

alr

[harsh river]

if you want to get ahead, study and graduate HS, get a degree.

[drifting ingot]

What about the ones from harvard or heksinki?

[harsh river]

those still don't hold any weight.

[zealous fiber]

Yeah im in HS, we're doing IT 2 hours a week

[drifting ingot]

Damn, I thought companies had a modicum of respect on that one.

[zealous fiber]

Yeah I also thought that

[harsh river]

certificates != degrees, anyone can do the harvard course and cheat, and get the degree

[zealous fiber]

Idk I hope I'll work for my self and not for a company but to start I'll probably work for someone

[zealous fiber]

so i need to go to university?

[harsh river]

is that so bad? you'd get some experience and learn the in and outs of whatever you're doing, the right or wrong ways of doing things which you can then bring into your own company and whatnot

@zealous fiber @drifting ingot i'd read this. #career-advice message

[zealous fiber]

no I didnt say it was bad. My final objective is working for myself

[zealous fiber]

?

[harsh river]

read what i linked: #career-advice message

[gritty rivet]

Most successful entrepreneurs in technology have degrees and professional experience. There are no hard requirements but if you're in high school, focusing on getting in to the best university you can makes sense

[nimble ermine]

Is there a separate channel for people learning python or does that kind of discussion also belong here?

[pine sleet]

We don't differentiate between beginners and experts, or any skill level for that matter. All are welcome to talk about Python in #python-discussion

[nimble ermine]

Thanks! But I meant a channel more focused on study methodology and how/what to study. Does that also go in #python-discussion ?

[pine sleet]

It does, yes

[fringe sphinx]

Working for yourself requires offering something people want to buy. This requires experience and credibility: the independent consultants I know started in traditional jobs, got some experience and used that as a stepping stone. I also was a consultant for years… one of my first jobs was for a very unique startup, from which I gained some fairly specialized skills. I was an independent consultant for a year after that company imploded (damn tech bubble) and eventually went to work for one of my clients (a big tech firm).

[fringe sphinx]

Comment above was a reply to this.

[vapid jay]

i got a question not about fully career, but would anyone like to teach or learn programming with me? it's hard for me to do it alone and i think that would be a good way for 2 people

[gritty rivet]

It's easier to find people to collaborate with when you can be more specific what you're looking to collaborate on.

If you're looking for someone more advanced to teach you, hire a tutor

If you want to find other people closer to your level, you may need to identify more clearly where you are at, what you want to learn, etc. Then try other channels or look for other platforms like https://www.codebuddies.org/

[vapid jay]

:o

[timber light]

What it takes to get a job for data analyst

[smoky quest]

A degree is the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[peak halo]

a degree in statistics, most likely

[analog steppe]

Hello guys,
I'm a working professional in India as a Software Engineer, and I'm profficient in python(scraping, data processing, automation and webdevelopment) along with that, I do also have great experience in flutter(cross-platform app development) + I'm learning and working with react+django, so I can handle full stack. Nevertheless, I do have experience with serverless technologies and a bit of Devops(which can be helpful in many development processes too).

Now, I've got 1.5+ years of experience as full time software engineer, and 1+ year of experience as freelancer too. But I don't have any degree.
I'm looking if I can get a job in any first tier country(maybe a remote job), which can offer me a descent pay according to my skill-set.

[peak halo]

You may as well start applying and see what response you get, but depending on the company's country, you might be at a disadvantage compared to citizens of that country with a similar skillset.

[analog steppe]

I've co-ordinated with European developers, and yep, got appreciation from there as well(due to fast development speed and accuracy in my work), so I'm not afraid of being compared. Thing is, no one invites before you have a degree, If I can get into any interview I can get more experience, what they ask and what they want, and can apply with better preparation.
And my aim is to get a job, which can be done remotely from India and can have at least $25/hr(which is very easily achievable in developed countries, and I think I deserve this as per my skill-set and the urge of working perfect.)

[turbid bobcat]

Not sure I understood the question, but for that kind of salary you gotta aim for northern European countries.

Like Germany, UK, Sweden, Denmark, etc

[gritty rivet]

If a North American or European company wants to hire early to mid career developers, they overwhelmingly seem to turn to Indian companies like Tata, Infosys etc. Remote hiring internationally isn't easy

[turbid bobcat]

It's definitely possible tho, I was hired remotely to London when I had less than a year of XP. The whole process can be simplified for both sides by going the contractor route.

[analog steppe]

Can you, elaborate what you mean by contractor route?

[south hazel]

Hey, I am doing web development and i have had python experience prior and i am totally comfortable in it. should I start doing DSA in python only?

[turbid bobcat]

There's essentially three routes for a foreign company to hire you:

1. the company sets up an actual fiscal presence in your country - think like Microsoft setting up shop in an Indian city - which is not what you want cuz they'll offer you wages that are in line with the market

2. the company sets up a proxy, that is, the company will pay a third party that has a fiscal presence in India and that third party pays you. The third party will usually take a cut, but it is customary for the company to cover it.

3. you become a contractor and sell services, how this works out likely changes from country to country, but it's as if you yourself were a company selling a service to another company

In my country, option 3 has serious implications. The main advantage is less taxes, the main disadvantage is less government support in case anything goes wrong. There's a whole different classification for contractors. As long as you're responsible with your finances it's a pretty cool state of affairs.

[analog steppe]

@turbid bobcat
Got that, thanks for the idea.
So, I'm at the conclusion that, I should be working on a few personal projects initially, and if they succeeded that's awesome, if not I can use them as my portfolio to sell development services etc, and maybe settling up a contact with a company in any developed country, and get regular jobs or maybe get hired permanently.

Any comments on this??

[turbid bobcat]

From my experience, as someone who does not have a CS degree (some might say physics is related but idk), is that a good portfolio of projects will 100% make a difference. I've had interviews for which I landed the job where we were literally going over the code I put on GitHub. And to this day I'm still getting attention because of it (haven't fully updated my profile with the new XP yet).

[analog steppe]

Thanks for the Ideas man!!!

[vapid jay]

I earned 0 dollars through my career this is an accomplishment

[vapid jay]

k,mmlmkmk

[steady sleet]

if you hava a very short name on instagram dm me, name like 6n or similar

[eternal apex]

hi

[hearty island]

rejected from uhg 🫠, but not for the position i applied to

i applied for an analytics biz coordinator role apparently a while ago

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[fringe sphinx]

!rule 9 6 please delete this message, we don't allow advertising here or recruiting. See the channel description for more info. (third times the charm)

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[hidden bloom]

is this bad to email someone: "Could you please let me know the exact date and time of assesment centre as I am in the final stage of another company?" or shld i not let them know that i already have a final offer elswhere? The thing is I want this one the one where ive still yet to do the assesmnet centre for most... yet i do not want to lose the other offer cus what if i do not get this one. i still need that backup offer

shld i just not say the final stage bit of another company and just say: could you please let me know dates asap?

they said they will do a call in next couple of days (to lmk more abt assesment centre) but i do not have time to wait couple of days

[peak halo]

@hidden bloom when you say "final stage", do you mean that you have an offer letter in hand?

[hidden bloom]

ya

[peak halo]

Then don't say "final stage", because that's a much more general statement than "I have received an offer"

[hidden bloom]

i do not want to tell them that tho or do i? but i just wanna know the dates etc. so i can let the other company know how long grace period to give me to decide whether or not to accept the offer

[peak halo]

In either case, you probably need to soften the wording. What you wrote sounds like "give me information right now or I'm going to ditch you", whereas you want something more along the lines of "I'm interested in the position and would like to proceed, but am time-constrained, ..."

Also, is this correspondence in English, or a different language?

[summer roost]

I'd say you do want to tell them that. It gives you leverage, and gives them incentive to move faster.

[hidden bloom]

Oops too late i said this is this bad?: "Could you please inform me of the assessment centre's exact date and time as soon as possible? I am only asking instead of patiently waiting for the phone call since I am extremely busy the next upcoming weeks and would probably need to re-arrange my schedule in order to make it. Therefore, I need to know as far in advance as possible to do so ."

[summer roost]

Not bad, just suboptimal. I think that has a lower chance of resulting in two offers than letting them know that you've already got an offer and so they've got a deadline to interview you would.

One possible outcome of the email you sent is that they'll decide "oh, they're busy for the next two weeks, and after that it's Christmas and New Years, so let's just interview them in January"

[hidden bloom]

Oh gosh thats exactly what i dont want.. i want to be interviewed now get it done with and decide between both offers...all b4 christmas...

Im just so confused do i let them know i alr have a final offer... Or will that hurt my chances of them giving me an offer??? In reality i want their final offer then the current offer i already have.

[somber sparrow]

Hello everyone! I was wondering if anyone can help entry level developers like myself that are beginners in the programming world and suggest the possible routes to to learning industry tips and tricks, finding opportunities, best languages to learn based on market demand and building attractive portfolios . I myself have put around 2500 hours into Python ai and chatbots but I find that there are always new things I need to learn while applying my skills at a job. But I’m not sure how to grab the attention of hiring managers due to my location as well as other demographic factors

[summer roost]

at this point I'd suggest waiting a day or so and seeing if they respond. When they do respond, or if they don't respond within 2 days, I'd send another email saying that you have received an offer from another company, and that you'll need them to move quickly before the other offer expires.

you don't want to say "that thing I said about being busy was just an excuse", and the easiest way to avoid that might be waiting for a small amount of time, and insinuating that you got the offer between when you sent the email that you sent today and when you next email them.

[solar stratus]

I'm looking for someone here who is a full-time Software developer (or related programming geared field). I have a school assignment in which I must conduct an interview with someone who is currently working in the field that I would like to work in after college. My questions will mostly be geared towards the role of communication in the job line. Please DM me if you are willing to be interviewed for this assignment. (There are 7 questions).
Thank you in advance ❤️

[lofty wolf]

Can I have advice for how to practice for the upcoming British informatics Olympiad . I’ve noticed a lot of the problems aren’t so much about ability to code, but how to think logically/mathematically to make code efficient

[hearty island]

YES GUYS!!!

i didn't even email her

just going to say hi, i'm still available and interested in the role.

omg, i just got another interview ☠️

no fucking way

my mom was right, the closer i'm getting to graduated the more interviews i'm getting

[hearty island]

my god, 45 minute panel rip me

[deft herald]

better than 5 x 45 min individual interviews

[hearty island]

yeah i agree

[gritty rivet]

Place I work does 5 x 1hr including a 3-4 person panel. For entry-level roles. I keep saying it needs to stop.

[lapis wind]

holy crap

that is insane 😅 I can understand maybe a 30minute interview just to get to know you, then one or two technical interviews but man

[plain mulch]

do you guys know companies which don't require a college degree and are looking to hire a python backend developer

[true harness]

many companies don't. but that doesn't mean they only hire people without a degree

[void mango]

show us some support ❤️

[fringe sphinx]

This is #career-advice , very off-topic / and advertisements aren't allowed.

[fringe sphinx]

Knowing "python" (by itself) is not sufficient to land a SWE job, but a few things to consider, there are many jobs in tech where one can start: QA, Support, Operations, etc. And, experience matters. Not having a degree is very different from "no degree and no experience and no subject matter knowledge". Get some experience however you can. And, of course, work towards a degree... there are many paths to eventually get a degree, even if you can't start there.

[vapid jay]

I'm looking for a way to get a job or something to earn enough money for a pc because I only code on mobile and is it possible to do that on mobile too and how much time does it take and also what do I need to know in order to do that ?

[hearty island]

damn uhg they emailed me the same thing as 3 weeks ago

i thought it was a rejection

[near ocean]

You can find work at restaurants or fast food places for quick cash

[vapid jay]

Nice joke I aint working outside

I leave that kind of jobs to people like you

[near ocean]

🤷 stay broke i guess

[true harness]

lol what

[true harness]

you could apply to programming jobs. what you will need to know will depend on the job. they will probably provide you with hardware to do your job

[white relic]

We do about that - 2 phone/zoom calls then a 3-4 hour onsite. It's a process that's fairly typical for jobs that require a PhD but we have hired bachelor's degree holders with the same process. It's been fairly effective

The part of the process that a BS wouldn't normally be as prepared for would be a presentation on the candidate's recent work/research

[sand patio]

are you still in school?

if you're in high school, it'll be hard for you to find a programming job - working part time is generally more viable.

[summer roost]

@near ocean could have done a better job of explaining this point, but he's not wrong. For a teenager, it's way easier to start making money at typical teenager jobs than it is to start making money developing software. You can convince McDonald's to hire you way more easily than Microsoft.
There's only a handful of options for teenagers to make money programming:

• paid internships (which are usually reserved for university students)
• freelancing (which usually pays worse than minimum wage, at least at the start: you're competing with people in countries with very low costs of living, and you spend a lot of time searching for prospects and vetting proposals for free)
• doing technical stuff for a small business that doesn't already have technical staff (jobs like this are around, but they're not necessarily easy to find, and they leave you in a position where you receive little to no mentorship or support on technical matters, and can easily wind up in over your head)

[torpid kayak]

anyone wanna help me do a interview for my essay ? college students in compsci or grads? 10 quick questions plsss dm me pls

[thorny fable]

We do between 4-8 mostly 5

[thorny fable]

Good advise. I would say the path to become an SWE from test/support is real and determinstic particularly in big companies. You have a bigger window to develop and show that you can churn out quality code with good engineering than the traditional swe interview route.

[silent turret]

hi i got sent a test by an employer

part of it says:
"Knowledge of Python programming, databases, modules and library"
im unsure what 'databases' could mean in this context

"modues and library" also seems vague but i think i have an idea what they are looking for

[buoyant seal]

databases usually means checking SQL knowledge. designining relational database and making sql queries to it 😅
Technically could be inclusions of smth else. Redis, ElasticSearch and etc

[silent turret]

that makes sense

it doesn't seem you do database work in python unless im wrong, but i think there are ways to do SQL in Python

[buoyant seal]

ergh? u a wrong.
We have common to use Django ORM and SQLAlchemy to work with databases in python easily with sql dbs.
Always an option to go more raw SQL in them though.

I mean we interfact with databases, but we don't run python as database, only as API exposing interactions with it (or a regular web site returning html)

[silent turret]

Do you think they could be looking for something like SQLAlchemy?

[near ocean]

Probably just SQL stuff

[silent turret]

cool, thank you to both 👍

[buoyant seal]

most of the time people need to utilize SQLAlchemy/DjangoORM
but in order to use them u new to know just raw SQL, and pretty much only just raw SQL is questioned during interviews usually 😅

[hearty island]

how many times should i provide for an interview?

[white relic]

I usually give them 2 or 3 blocks of time to choose from different days

[hearty island]

gotcha, ok. this is for the big one with the hiring panel from l3harris

[hearty island]

not sure what my recruiter meant by "another manager is interested in your profile" does that mean that the first manager wasn't?

or does that mean that he was and i got moved further up the food chain

[white relic]

I wouldn't interpret it that way, just suggests multiple managers had some level of interest

[hearty island]

ah, ok

[fringe sphinx]

Agree, and; it means you didn’t bomb the first interview. If you had, the recruiter would tell the other mgr.

[hearty island]

so if anything this is a good thing

[white relic]

it's an underappreciated perk of having a job I don't want to leave, that I don't have to deal with recruiters

[hearty island]

i'm hoping this is the last interview for l3harris and they decide. i'm going to do a lot of research on their products too. really probe and see what they have. this way i can impress their hiring panel.

[white relic]

Always worth doing your research. What kind of story their marketing copy is trying to sell can tell you a lot about the company

like, are they talking about their innovative cutting edge projects, or about their long history and established track record, or what

[fringe sphinx]

Except for the ‘we excel at shifting paradigms in an ever changing competitive landscape with ai blockchain hyper scaling” marketing copy 😉

[white relic]

To be fair, it's harder in defense to talk about cutting edge innovations because it's all classified

[hearty island]

meh i mean, they casually dropped the fact about military radios. maybe that's not classified tho.

[white relic]

nothing released to the public is done casually. I promise that

[hearty island]

oh yeah. they were a lot more forthcoming than ||REDACTED||

||REDACTED|| was like yeah you're going to be analyzing...data...yeah.

[white relic]

Haha yeah I got some of that when I went on a factory tour at my first job

[fringe sphinx]

Contracts/etc are generally public knowledge, so you can lookup major bids/wins/etc

Ie: existence of most programs, not the details of such.

[white relic]

"this is the room where we look at the screens and they tell us what the things are"

[hearty island]

"you'll understand needs and create data-driven ideas to improve efficiency and add value to processes"

i asked the recruiter what needs and he was like yeah.... about that... i don't have the security clearance to tell you that. but great question for the hiring manager 🙂

[fringe sphinx]

Good types of questions for these types of companies are: ‘what does it take to succeed here’ type q’s

[hearty island]

they didn't even answer that either

makes you really wonder what they actually do

[fringe sphinx]

Or: ‘how did you end up in this role?’

[white relic]

They ought to be able to tell you what the technical "levels" are, where you'd be starting out and how you would be evaluated for promotion, that kind of thing.
The recruiter perhaps not, but the hiring manager yes

[hearty island]

the recruiter for ||REDACTED|| was like yeah you're making my job very easy with your responses, i appreciate it. also, congratulations, you've moved onto the second round

felt like i won a game of Jeopardy or somethig

he also complimented my internships and was like those definitely play a big part in hiring matters

[harsh river]

<@&831776746206265384>

[karmic merlin]

!warn 790445773745422347 Dont post ads here. we are not an ad board.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @rough vale.

[rough vale]

Its not ad its just a project showcase..😏

[visual shell]

anyone know a good site/template for me to make a resume from? my current one is honestly complete shit

[fervent folio]

Any front end dev here ?

[harsh river]

i'd ask in #career-advice

[visual shell]

good idea

[vapid jay]

I'm not broke I just wanna earn with python 😂 unlike you

[vapid jay]

If you work at McDonald's in my country it's a shame

I only need 4 more years to become an engineer

[wicked tinsel]

okay, continiue to code on mobile then 💀

[vapid jay]

I'm happy taking that challenge, I would rather suffer than just asking my parents to buy me a laptop and just to let you know the laptop I had was bought with money that I made from my mobile phone

[keen estuary]

grow up

[wicked tinsel]

good point

[vapid jay]

Well see about that

I'm not here to argue with nerds

[regal axle]

Overleaf (the latex editor) has good templates.

[white relic]

Let's be polite about people's personal decisions, even when they don't make sense to us.

[vapid jay]

W trentj

[wicked tinsel]

good point

[wicked tinsel]

To actually getting back to your Question it is possible to learn coding on mobile, even on pen and Paper technically

[severe inlet]

What are the highly accessible, entry level jobs in Python development?

Where to access them also?

[vapid jay]

I was learning from TV and pen before I had my first pc xD it's pain

[vapid jay]

LinkedIn is a good place to start and you don't always have to match their high level entry just apply once you think you are good enough

[severe inlet]

To any jobs advertised as "Python Developer" ?

[vapid jay]

It depends on what do you know in python ( ai,ml, data science, etc ) and some ask python + other things , the ones that asks for python only are actually rare

[severe inlet]

Okay, I'll check, I remember seeing many with entry level label that require years of experience and all sorts of intimidating things.

[wicked tinsel]

How about looking up Techstacks

[vapid jay]

Just apply you may get lucky enough

[severe inlet]

What are Techstacks?

[severe inlet]

I will. Thanks!

[naive halo]

Hi everyone. I have been studing python during the last year and now I am facing PCEP and PCAP but I am not sure which is next step. I would love to work but I am not sure if having PCAP is enough and what type of jobs you can find

[white relic]

I've never seen or heard of a job opening that actually wanted one of those. Certificates are not generally sought after in software development.

Where in the world are you located?

[naive halo]

Spain

But I can work remotely if needed

[vapid jay]

What’s the difference between coding and programming?

[white relic]

Don't know anything about Spain in particular. Broadly speaking the only "certificate" generally accepted as valuable is a bachelor's degree in CS or a related discipline. If you don't have that, you probably need to rely on projects that demonstrate your skills.

[white relic]

Nothing of substance

[vapid jay]

Wdym

[white relic]

there's no difference

[naive halo]

Ok, trentj, thank you very much for your help

[severe inlet]

You might find contributing to open source projects beneficial, it is like being instantly employed, and you have access to high-quality collaborators. It is volunteering work though.

[vapid jay]

Do I have to learn multiple languages if I want to be a future developer?

And also should I learn react before react native?

[white relic]

There are very few things you have to do to be a developer. There are many things that help. You might get hired knowing only Python, but it's unlikely; it helps to also know other languages, and other things like statistics or electronics or Linux administration or whatever, depending on the kind of opportunity you want

[vapid jay]

What about knowing advanced JavaScript along with react native and a bit of python along with websites

[vapid jay]

.

[strong lava]

Dropping this here since I think it's relevant: #career-advice message and #career-advice message

@vapid jay

[vapid jay]

Coding is just typing words but programming is problem solving and thinking and algorithm thinking

[vapid jay]

If you learn 1 language you can learn any language within 2 weeks

[vapid jay]

Start with python and get good at it then do javascript and then react then some node.js and you will be fine

I what about react native or react

Which one should I learn

React probably

It's more efficient than react native

In what terms? I heard react native has more features and it supports both apple and android.

[vapid jay]

Google : ReactJS is considered more efficient than React Native when displaying dynamic content. It is because ReactJS uses a virtual DOM (Document Object Model) that allows faster rendering times. Conversely, React Native uses a real DOM, which can slow down performance when rendering complex pages.

Use what ever you like this is just an opinion

Oh ok, how much is JavaScript do I have to learn in order to confidently use react js

Learn js then react js

I recommended you to do py -> js -> react.js

Yea I learnt some python like building a letter counter and a vowel counter, a number guesser game, a input place in order to draw for example forward then it asks how much pixels then you say. Is that enough python to learn or do I have to go advanced

[vapid jay]

Learn from me : https://github.com/RyanHeDev/Python/tree/main

[vapid jay]

Ok thanks

[true harness]

you should follow vetted resources like on the resources page

[vapid jay]

I also got courses on python, js, react I'm saving them on my bot soon

Ok

[true harness]

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[vapid jay]

I collected over 20k courses

[white relic]

but how can you know any of them are good?

[lapis wind]

I gotta be honest, your projects don't seem that helpful for someone trying to learn Python or what not, it is fine that you're learning yourself and doing projects, but telling others to learn based on what you've done there doesn't seem terribly helpful

[vapid jay]

My projects are not a tutorial they are just there for people to see what python could be used for

[vapid jay]

I'm using them before releasing them

[lapis wind]

😅 But going through your code, most of it seems to be empty files or what look to be copy pasted tutorials or quick start guides

[vapid jay]

No bro, I watch course and practice then put the code there to save it for later so I can remind myself of what I have learned

[lapis wind]

And that's great, but then would it not be more useful to link them the tutorials and courses you watched rather than your code you did while following said tutorial or course?

[vapid jay]

It's paid courses

I'm working on a discord bot to share with people the best paid and free courses and coupons to get the paid ones for free

[white relic]

You're personally curating a list of 20000 tech courses?

[vapid jay]

Udemy, coursera, skill share, cs50, LinkedIn learning, other ones that are owned by people like ztm and codedamn...

[vapid jay]

Mobile screen shot no inspect element

let's talk business

[white relic]

I have no idea what you're trying to show me

[vapid jay]

That I have 20k courses

that you have done?

[vapid jay]

howww

[true harness]

what's the point of having a lot of courses though. no one can watch all of them in a reasonable amount of time. you should instead curate good courses

[vapid jay]

I've done 200 hundred

u bought them?

so you make courses?

[vapid jay]

I watch the ones that I need and donate to people in need

[lapis wind]

quantity != quality

[vapid jay]

I get 100% Coupons from course instructors to test their courses

[vapid jay]

It's both quality and quantity

[vapid jay]

I'm releasing a discord bot soon stay tunned

[white relic]

How long does it take you to "test" a course?

[lapis wind]

😅 I think I have maybe like 3 or 4 good courses I can think of... For you to say 20k, I will say that is a suspicious

[vapid jay]

I watch the first part and see if I actually learn something

[ivory sluice]

let's steer back to career discussion, i don't think this is relevant

[hearty island]

@white relic , https://www.wesh.com/article/l3harris-technologies-sale/45989952 what do you think about me bringing this up in an interview for l3harris?

or is that too finance-oriented and not really tech-oriented?

[white relic]

It wouldn't hurt, and it's a thing to ask about when they ask if you have any questions.

Like, "I saw in the news that L3H recently sold off their commercial aviation business, has that affected this location?" And let them tell you about it

[hearty island]

word. i will keep searching to see if i find more tech-oriented stuff.

thanks trentj 🙂

[white relic]

Out of curiosity, is this opportunity in Florida?

[hearty island]

rochester iirc 🥶

[white relic]

Ah OK

[hearty island]

my last interviewer went to RIT, shoutout to KRRT lol

[hearty island]

https://www.l3harris.com/newsroom/editorial/2023/11/l3harris-radios-help-permian-basin-agencies-transform-emergency-response this is very tech related

dude l3harris makes all kinds of stuff

[white relic]

Honestly I would not know what to say about this. I think the other article is better to mention to show you've done your research on the company

[hearty island]

yeah, unless the people that are interviewing me work in that sector of the company

[white relic]

If they do, they'll probably be happy to talk to you about it

[hearty island]

i think i cover my bases pretty well with that commercial aviation biz question. it shows i'm paying attention and that i care. plus it's a good way to prompt conversation.

[white relic]

Yeah, that's what I meant

[hearty island]

now to do some more research on Volkswagen 🔍 🚘

i certainly don't want to talk about their emission scandal 😬

[white relic]

I mean, if I were applying for a job related to emissions testing, I certainly would

[hearty island]

but i'm interviewing for a sales operations analyst role, so maybe this is good: https://www.volkswagen-group.com/en/articles/brand-group-core-improves-operating-profit-unit-sales-and-sales-revenue-increased-product-costs-and-interruptions-to-production-impact-profitability-17869

[white relic]

Yeah the emissions thing is probably not relevant

[hearty island]

i think this is a good article to mention

[hidden bloom]

is this bad to say in an email: "
I was wondering if I could move the inteview to an earlier date as I already have been given multiple placement offers but they have an expiration, and I would still love to interview at your company to see if yours is better. "

[naive halo]

Thank you Kytsu1. Is ther open source projects for all levels?

[hidden bloom]

is this bad: "Could you please expedite the interview as I already have multiple expiring placement offers. "

[fringe sphinx]

I like your first version over your second version. "I was wondering if I could move the inteview to an earlier date" is a bit nicer than "Could you please expedite".

[hearty island]

i agree with billybobby, could you sounds more demanding

[hidden bloom]

"I currently have an offer deadline on (X date). I was wondering if you could please expedite the process to support this?"

I was wondering if you could please move the inteview to this week as I already have been given multiple placement offers but they have an expiration, and I would still love to interview at your company as I believe it would be a good fit

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, those are all good.

[lost glade]

should i get some autocad skills?

[hearty island]

do the roles that you're focusing on require it?

[gritty rivet]

If you want to apply for jobs that require them, then yes. Or if you want to design some stuff as a hobby, also yes. Otherwise, probably not.

If this advice is not helpful you may want to try a Magic 8 Ball next time 😉

[hidden bloom]

they haven't responded yet should i say i have been given an offer now? i need the assessment centre shit dates and stuff but they have still yet to ring me or email back

[gritty rivet]

I don't think we can answer this for you. It's about your preferences and the specific opportunities. A job offer in hand is worth way more then a theoretical one. Just because you accept one offer doesn't mean you can't reneg and take another one later if it's worth burning a bridge for.

[lost glade]

Not really since the things im doing is cybersecurity rn. but I am capable of some mechatronics

Only into mechatronics since robotics competition pay alot and its good as a side income

just deciding should I take autocad like more seriously, like will having autocad skills in my cv play a role

[hidden bloom]

for the company i currently have the offer with is this a bad thing to say : "i am considering the offer, when is the expiry date?" i have a meeting with them tomorrow where they will lay out the details of the final offer.. and idk what to say cus i dont wanna accept on the spot

[mint oracle]

What is this role bro related to it?similar to business analyst

[hearty island]

it's similar to a biz analyst role i think

[exotic owl]

what kind of math grades should i be aiming for if i want to get into university for computer science? not a high end university just kind of an average one

[hearty island]

As and A-s are pretty good

[exotic owl]

As where i live is 80+ which sounds low

[hearty island]

in the states if you have As in advanced math classes you're pretty good

[mint oracle]

Ur job?

[hearty island]

oh no rn i'm doing jackshit, developing training materials for execs at my company to use (which they prob never will). my official title is a business process analyst internal consultant.

[mint oracle]

it's sound interesting!

[hearty island]

not till you realize that it's for IT problem management and i only have like three months of experience in that, so i'm extremely unqualified

[mint oracle]

Well atleast u have experience!

[hearty island]

ig so

[mint oracle]

I am unemployed!

[hearty island]

sorry to hear that 😦, it's rough out there. i'm graduating may '24.

[mint oracle]

Basically Instead of job i am preferring a master degree

[hearty island]

i see. what field are you aiming for?

[mint oracle]

Idk yet!

[hearty island]

might be a good idea to figure that out

[mint oracle]

yeah may be ml or web

[hearty island]

ml is defo going to require a masters, web idk

[hidden bloom]

is it unethical to lead recuriters on - and just do interviewers for stuff that i dont rlly want just cus i got there anyways and it is good practise?

[white relic]

The longer you are unemployed, the more opportunities will become acceptable to you.

[hidden bloom]

Should I chase the money, move to Newcastle alone... have to restart making new friends etc. work on embedded microprocessor stuff (C++ )

Thing is newcastle is so white im scared im not going to make new mates and be miserable and depressed...

OR

stay in Notts with lower salary but with mates and a hybrid role in brum working in microsoft ecosystem.

They are both software development roles btw.. what if i don't like newcastle... i like notts. ughh. Isn't embedded (C++) systems stuff really good for a career- a lotta high paying stuff there?

[white relic]

I don't find a problem with taking a shot at an opportunity that you don't want to take now. By the time an offer comes through you may be more desperate. And who knows? Maybe that position that sounds boring will actually pique your interest when you talk to the people who you'd be working with

[hidden bloom]

isnt embedded system stuff really good in terms of a career

[white relic]

meanwhile in the US I moved 15 hours from home for university, 9 hours for my first job, 10 hours in the opposite direction for my second job...

[hidden bloom]

well damn

[white relic]

i know people across the pond don't like to leave home but I just can't really relate. no tech jobs in my hometown, gotta go where the money is

everything's so much more spread out around here, I think it just doesn't matter as much. if you have to move an hour away just to work in the same city, maybe you might as well move 3 hours away for a better one

[white relic]

not really my area of expertise, but it's a broad category. Many people including some of my classmates do some kind of embedded development and have successful careers

my classmates being more on the EE side of things than CS

[gritty rivet]

The main problem here is that you can burn bridges. If you go through some interviews and then bail, the recruiter and/or company will be unlikely to consider you again in the future

[hidden bloom]

shld i go to another assesment centre in person tho ik i will fail it? like rly fail it. there is a technical and ik im gonna fail it and i can't rly prepare for it cus i dont know questions and i cant i mprove my technical skills drastically in a week
shld i just save myself the embarassment? there is no interview even for me to be likeable in
and we arent even being reimbursed... so im losing money and i would be gaining 3x money that day cus i have job stuff scheduled then

As briefly discussed, the day will be split into two tasks:

Individual task (30 minutes)
Group task (1 hour)
Following the group task, your team will have a Q&A session with our developers to reflect on how you found the task.

there is final interview after this stage but idt im gonna pass this stage icl.. and they said they cant reimburse cus they have so many ppl coming in for this lol
its saying bring ur own laptop as well?? so its this not leetcode lol?

[shut prism]

what role should someone focus on when trying to land a role using python? ive been advised for software engineering, which skills should I focus on for that ? also how do I improve my programming problem solving skills?

[summer roost]

Everyone expects that you are interviewing with multiple companies. It's ok to say that you need some time to consider the offer, and to finish up interviews that have already been scheduled with other companies

[hidden bloom]

one company asked me to prepare a presentation for the interview - i dont actually want the role but want interview practise - is it bad if i dont make slides and just talk instead? technically they didnt say powerpoint slides, just '5 min presentation' - shld i still show up for interview even tho im going to decline the offer? i use it as warmup interview for my next actual virtual interview that i care about?

[white relic]

what exactly is an assessment center? I'm still confused by this. Is this part of the company you're applying for or is it a third party location or like... what is it

and is this the same assessment center we discussed a couple weeks ago or a different one? is "assessment center" a common thing in the UK?

*centre, I mean, of course 😛

[gentle imp]

hey guys

what are some good sites to practice good coding skills in terms of industry standards

people have said create projects and whatnot

[hearty island]

@white relic, shouldn't there be some kind of meeting request to accept on teams?

like on top of the email that appears on google calendar?

strange that there isn't

[white relic]

I'd expect so, but it's possible somebody goofed up

[hearty island]

should i email them?

[white relic]

Maybe they only do teams meetings internally

[hearty island]

but the last one they did, they sent a teams link and it appeared on google calendar

[white relic]

Yes, I would reply all since the email says that (you can just say "I will be there")

[hearty island]

gotcha, that's where my thought process lead to

[white relic]

Is there a date and time in the email or anything?

[hearty island]

yep, there's a textbox and everything. similar to their last email. just missing the google calendar thing.

[white relic]

OK yeah they probably just call you or have to set up the virtual call as a second step

[hearty island]

i'm just going to reply all and say hi, i accept the meeting request.

[white relic]

if it gets to be the day before and you haven't gotten a zoom link or anything, it would be appropriate to follow up and say, hey, I noticed theres no meeting link, should I expect you to call me?

[hearty island]

yep. there's a teams link in the email tho.

[white relic]

Oh I see

[hearty island]

i censored it for privacy in case someone obnoxious copies the link off the screenshot

[white relic]

Yeah that probably just means that outlook is stupid tbh

[white relic]

Wise

I've had outlook do weird things with forwarded meetings sometimes

[hearty island]

it's strange, the team i'm meeting with doesn't have the original interviewer i interviewed with

and i can't find them on linkedin either

[white relic]

That's not unusual either

[hearty island]

these are probably the hiring manager's buddies. also, i found the role was reposted too which is strange bc the link didn't work. probably an HR goofup.

[hidden bloom]

when it says "OO methodolgoies" do they mean things like RUP? or do they mean things like class diagrams, etc.

[fringe sphinx]

RUP is ancient stuff at this point... been a long time since I heard anyone mention Rational. That just says "some understanding". I'd expect that you know what the four pillars of OO are (this is classic interview stuff) and can talk about them and can talk about them in a language-appropriate context.

[hidden bloom]

fair

[hidden bloom]

and with agile design - they mean jira / sprints etc. im assuming?

[fringe sphinx]

Yah

Everyone's def of agile is a bit different, but again, they just say "some understanding", so they're not expecting you to be some scrum master.

[hidden bloom]

i dont actually have experience with embedded firmware devleopment so idk why im in the final stage virtual interview - what shld i do? do i just research it further or what? i want the role badly. i have experience with c++ but its limited

[fringe sphinx]

Perhaps there aren't many entry-levels looking for embedded work? I dunno. I generally don't think it's good to try to cram something you don't know just before an interview. Be confident in what you know, and perhaps reinforce that.

[hearty island]

uhg is stressing me out

like what in the world is taking so long

[hidden bloom]

would asking if the specific emebedded system runs bare metal or with an OS be a good question to ask?

[fringe sphinx]

I’d ask something like: ‘what’s your stack’? It avoids misspeaking

[hidden bloom]

is the stack not implied here: "c/ c++ c# etc."

[fringe sphinx]

Stack is usually about the frameworks and building blocks. If someone asks about your web stack, you don’t say Js (for instance)

[hidden bloom]

so im asking for framework specifics instead of programming languages that are listed in the job description?

[fringe sphinx]

Yup

Also, embedded is def not my space, so that was more general advice for how to talk to a company where you don't know their tech.

[hidden bloom]

and im assuming they r implying jenkins when they say 'automated test systems'

but there is also gitlab and stuff so idk

shld i ask that as well?

is asking about specific technologies / tools bad tho - like being like 'do you use x y z' etc. etc. is that not annoying or does it show interest? cus at the end of the day.. a tool is a tool.. so idk

[white relic]

you can and should ask, if you care

[fringe sphinx]

Not saying it’s bad, just suggesting more open ended questions. Like, asking: ‘What do you use for test automation? Do you use Jenkins?’ Is totally fine.

[white relic]

if you don't care, I wouldn't ask about what test automation thing they use just for the sake of having something to ask

To me it feels like you're trying to minmax the interview process, instead of trying to find out if it's a job you actually want. You should ask questions about the company/position if the answer is important to you. I don't think there's a lot of utility in curating the best questions that other people would ask in your position.

The interview process is (also) about finding out if the job is right for you, not (only) if you are right for the job.

[hidden bloom]

i dont get why windows software development would be necessary in this case - is it cus of the 'pc tools' bit?

[digital fjord]

A ton of embedded tooling is on windows.

[hidden bloom]

is this a bad question: "Since I am not familiar with everything in your tech stack, how would you go about gettign me up to speed? Would I would have to familiarize myself with in my own time or is there like an induction period – guided assistance etc. " ig its bad cus it acknolwedges i dont know everything, but shows i want to learn so thats good ig? this is somethign i would care about..

[fringe sphinx]

The first part is enough. Just ask the question and let them answer it, imo.

(No need to try to pre-answer it for them)

[hidden bloom]

Also i would like to ask "if there is a ton of legacy code written in c" cus its embeded systems obviously so

cus i wanna know if the job would entail modernizing the legacy code or if it is already written in C++ etc. but then again it says 'c and c++ so im assuming its written in c, and they r tryna update it??? is that a bad question to ask

[fringe sphinx]

My advice on all of these questions is: just ask the question. No need to state your assumptions, just; what languages are you actively developing in? What do you use them for? (Ie; where is c++ used vs c#?)

[hidden bloom]

i feel like those feel generic tho and if i am assuming it shows ive actually read up? thot about it

[wise panther]

hi everyone! im taking a coding class in python at college, but i am struggling a bit with problem solving. leetcode feels way too intimidating to me. does anyone know any free website for me to try?

[vapid jay]

Try working on projects and use your brain to figure out how to make them done and then you should be able to complete leetcode otherwise use codewars or codechef , you can also check realpython

[fringe sphinx]

#python-discussion is a good place to get help, you might get some ideas there

[fringe sphinx]

!resources also, there's some free resources here

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[wise panther]

ok thnx!!

[dense valley]

Did anybody here learn machine learning from scratch and actually went on to land a good job?

Maybe not from scratch but had no learning about Machine Learning what so ever.

[fringe sphinx]

Wouldn't that be everyone who is working in machine learning? Not quite sure what you're asking.

You mean without college or anything?

[dense valley]

Well more without an engineer or CS/software development background

[haughty slate]

If anyone's done freelancing with Python where did you start? Been trying like Fiverr and Upwork but honestly I kind of just suck at marketing myself and can't get a first job to see if I can start building up reviews

[crisp stream]

resd up on what? has the company published any blogs and such stating they are doing so?
because otherwise that'd be speculating

[lavish skiff]

So I just got a rejection mail I thought I was perfect for the role but didn't even get the chance to give some elimination round 😅 so how should I know what could be the reason and what should I do to change the scenario

[fringe sphinx]

You can ask for feedback, but rarely will you get anything of substance. Rejections aren’t a big deal; it could be for any of a million reasons. Heck, they might’ve just hired internally. Don’t take it personally.

[lavish skiff]

Yes that can also be reason I will try applying for more companies and see if I can get them.

[clear compass]

Hello guys

[vapid jay]

hi

[granite void]

Hi

[vapid jay]

i just wanna get in cyber security

[granite void]

Python is sooo goood

[vapid jay]

Coding my own website would be nice as well

[granite void]

You should learn lower level stuff

Like C and some more system level stuff

[vapid jay]

Wait... I thought python was where I was supposed to start?

[granite void]

Nope

[vapid jay]

I thought this was the lowest level ☠

[granite void]

C is better to understand programming concepts

[vapid jay]

Dang on' youtube videos

[granite void]

Python is a high level language

[vapid jay]

Crazy cause everybody says it's the easiest

[granite void]

Fr, but you would find some real ones as you get into the rabbit hole

[vapid jay]

But I've already started with it a bit so might as well keep on going

[granite void]

It is not, debugging is a mess

[granite void]

Yep, from where are u studying?

[vapid jay]

Wdym from where? I just follow free python courses online and follow the projects in the video

[granite void]

Alr

I would recommend taking up Udemy course by Angela yu

on Python, Her instruction and course is god level

[vapid jay]

what do you think about windows 10?

[granite void]

Idc lmao

[vapid jay]

oh

[granite void]

Idk I have 11

[vapid jay]

ppl say its the least secure operating system but honestly its my favorite and i've mastered windows

[granite void]

Oh dam

Idk shit about os

Good for you

[vapid jay]

Yeah

To be honest, I've spent most of my time learning about privacy, security, and anonymity more than coding

[granite void]

Wow

[vapid jay]

I wonder if there's an open source OS that's similar to windows

[vapid jay]

Btw where do i find this?

[vapid jay]

https://www.udemy.com/course/100-days-of-code/

ah thanks

[true harness]

"high" and "low" level in programming terms refers to the amount of abstraction the language gives you, not difficulty. start with Python

[vapid jay]

do you learn Python for CyberSec?

Ehh

I gotta start with IT somewhere so I just.. started learning it for that reason in general

So no

Let's be clear the course I've sent is away big for CyberSec, so if want to use python for CyberSec, there are other courses that will heavily focus on this and the foundations

[hot egret]

Where should i host python for free? in mobile

Is there any web

[vapid jay]

Like C?

[vapid jay]

May I ask you some question to could help you in a good way?

sure

CyberSec is a wide industry. First of all, you want to know basic knowledge in Linux and Windows and Networks regardless of which area you wanna be in CyberSec

My question is what do you wanna be
Blue Team [ IR, SOC, Malware Analyst, Threat Hunter]

Red Team [ Red Teamer, Pentester, Bug bounty Hunter ] ...etc

Hmm.. never thought of all that

I just wanted to know how to hack lol

Hack is Red Team

what type of hacking do you wanna do?

Web hacking, IoT hacking, ...etc?

Oh ok

[vapid jay]

I really dunno

so focus on the basics that I've mentioned above and don't worry about the rest now and once you get deeper start thinking again then come back and I will be happy to help and share resources

ok thanks

and you will find people here to help too and don't start C or Python until you know what you wanna do

[vapid jay]

that makes sense

[white relic]

That seems a bit gatekeepy

[vapid jay]

cause while i was learning coding i never really knew what to do with it

C will be helpful, if you will work with low level stuff like Malware Analysis

Python will be helpful for every case because of automation but you might replace it with other programming language that you will learn on your way like Bash scripting when you will learn Linux

I'm really good at windows. I don't know how good though? Is there a course for it?

do you know how to access the logs and events ..etc?

use firewall ...etc

I think so

so learn the basics of Linux and Network

then start thinking of what you wanna actually do

Alright

[vapid jay]

I forgot to mention CompTIA Security+ course from Cybrary, Professor Messer (Youtube Channel) or from CompTIA (Paid) that will help you to learn about the roles in CyberSec and ...etc

Send links

[vapid jay]

https://www.Cybrary.it
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLG49S3nxzAnnVhoAaL4B6aMFDQ8_gdxAy
https://www.comptia.org/

awesome

you will find the basics of Network on the three websites, two option are free and the third one is paid because that's the main company as you could tell from the name of the courses

haha trojan. i see it on the playlist

had to get rid of a trojan virus on my sisters computer before

lol, cool. good luck with your journey

yeah thanks

[hidden bloom]

i just bombed a behavioural question: i could not think of a good answer to it
it was "what is your red button" essentailly what frustrates you when working within a team setting - like something your other teammate does
what tf would have been a good answer to that... the interviewer said examples like : when someone else did not complete their tasks, and you sort of have to motivate / coerce them into doing it. i guess that would have been a good example for me to say but once he said that i couldn't think of something different to say other then that

[plain nymph]

I usually say that lazy PR/commit/changelog/etc. text entires piss me off. It's both true and innocent enough to not be a red flag 🙂

[white relic]

Do you not know what behaviors really annoy you?

[hidden bloom]

i dont get easily annoyed ugh i couldnt think of it on the spot ugh i got caught off guard ugh

ughhh i feel like i bombed that and it sucks cus its between me and the other guy final final stage interview - i didnt even realise this was gonna be an interview i thot they were just giving me the offer in this call.. i was under that impression ffs

i just got led on - feels like a trickkkk

[white relic]

I'm also not easily annoyed and would probably need to ask for a moment to think about that question

But the best answer would be to name something that annoys you, and then to give an example of how you mitigate that so it doesn't become a problem at work

[hidden bloom]

how would i mitagate that if someone else is doing it

[white relic]

Could be as simple as "when I notice I'm getting frustrated, I go for a walk"

or "I hate when people write bad comments, so I do code reviews when I'm not hungry"

Depending on what it is that annoys you there may be other applicable mitigations

[plain nymph]

you either talk to the dev directly, expressing your position on the matter, or you talk to your team lead/senior about setting style rules in place

[hidden bloom]

I just got setup – basically I thought I was getting the offer(discussing it) but it was essentially a whole seprate virtual interview in itself and I just failed... like he was reading all the stuff about the role – and I think I was meant to ask questions about it (technical questions) and I didn’t, and then they had a bunch of behaiovurla questions.. Which I waffled in.. But not well. And then they said do you have quetiosn for us, and the questions I had were as if I already had the role (startate, do we get office computer etc.) so then they clarified lol they are seeing another guy but they will let me know in a couple days (how embarassing)

They said at the end if you have any quetsions in the meantime do let me know..

what good technical questions could I email them that would make them reconsider me?? Should I even bother atp. Ughhh

[white relic]

Doesn't sound as if you were set up to me. You might not have been as far along in the interview process as you thought but they won't bring you in for an interview and waste the interviewers' time if they already decided to hire the other guy. Maybe you flubbed the interview (from your description I think it's not as bad as you make it sound), but there's nothing really you can do about that now and from what they said it sounds like you're still in it

[hidden bloom]

they said they use postman for testing
let me think of a question around that

well the quesetion is to show interest moreso then anything - so i can get an offer

[white relic]

I had a candidate follow up by asking what tools we use so he could get familiar with them before starting. It showed interest and initiative. We ended up not hiring him for other reasons but the follow up was solid

[hidden bloom]

they said what tools but they went on and on i cannot actually remember and list them all some were like kuberanates etc. and stuff but ugh i wish i could have recorded the interview to replay it

[near remnant]

I work as a junior at a company in the Python backend area, and a week ago, they started assigning TypeScript + React tasks to me (which I have never used before). It involves full-stack feature development, including Python, React, TypeScript, API development, database integration, testing, etc. They expect me to complete everything in just 2 days, and I'm getting very little help. Is this normal? Probably not normal but I feel burned out as hell, on the side I have to work on a project on my own also with almost zero help. I would honestly try to find something else but in this market I'm not sure...

[true harness]

have you tried communicating to the person assigning tasks

[near remnant]

Yes, the response was: "its ok, work on it and try to complete everything" lmao

How can they expect this dude its crazy...I work 10-12 hours a day just because of this and my salary is lower than a cashier at a supermarket

[true harness]

instead of complaining here, you should communicate that you need more time, or that you don't think you can do it by the deadline. their message seems like, "it's okay, just get done what you can get done"

[near remnant]

We can skip the communicating part because I have already done that but thanks mate

I pushed everything that I could done and said ok thats it, please help

Feel like dead inside, i didn't even eat today because of this

[buoyant seal]

I used 1 week to learn JavaScript from zero at least and took essentially may be even 2 weeks to learn sufficient little of frontend essentials to get started 🤔

2 days are not enough I think for building reasonable foundation from zero

[near remnant]

I know dude, to develop a nice and good feature which is fullstack and also tested well, don't think 2 days is enough. Also, since I have only a couple of weeks of experience in react and typescript I think 1-2 weeks would be enough for me to develop this...but yeah, i feel like at a wrong company

[buoyant seal]

I used learning materials

Books
Head First html CSS
Head First Javascript
CSS the missing tutorial
Flexbox zombies game
CSS grid gardens game
And then dived into official documentation of Vue.js(react in your case) framework to get started

[near remnant]

I know js and all that, but typescript is a different beast

it's just so crazy that they want well developed, tested fullstack features in 2 days from a junior who has almost zero experience with typescript and react....but yeah, I dont care anymore

[buoyant seal]

Ah. U have already used react and Js, then may be 2 days is not unreasonable

My situation was worse due to literally first time seeing html CSS and js

[near remnant]

bruh

if i could develop a full stack feature with typescript, react, python, develop the APIs for it and the db integration and also test it in 2 days, I wouldn't be a junior for almost minimum wage KEKW

[true harness]

I mean, what's the feature

[near remnant]

i wouldn't get into details here

but @buoyant seal doesn't disappoint, seems like he knows everything fully (as always), 100% and he can do everything in 1 day, good for you mate

[buoyant seal]

😅 I will repeat though that I said may be. Public snow is right in questioning requirements.
Depending on requirements, timeline may be is reasonable, may be not

[near remnant]

its fine

[true harness]

I'm not sure how to evaluate the reasonableness of the ask otherwise. but if you've tried communicating and they told you to just deal with it, I suppose you could start brushing up your resume. I would probably try asking for more help though

[wheat sparrow]

its true that i want to be an aerospace engineer but i wanna do somrthing with python help i cant decide

[peak halo]

a lot of (non-software) engineers use python, but I don't personally know for what

[wheat sparrow]

oh

[peak halo]

what stage of life are you? high school?

[wheat sparrow]

im 15 and in 9th grade in iran so im in middle school

i gtg bye

[peak halo]

I don't know how things work in Iran, so you should probably talk to the counselor at your school about how to get into engineering programs.

[wheat sparrow]

okay

[night void]

my teacher just bet me 3 "A"s that i cant code a program with stuff we havent learned yet

[pine gate]

hey guys

[analog sun]

Do not ask for people to run code for you

[pine gate]

can you

[analog sun]

Read my message again

[pine gate]

because on my pc donest work

[peak halo]

So fix it?

[pine gate]

i need help from you morons

[near ocean]

this isnt on topic and this guy has already been muted once for crossposting and dumping huge walls of text

[silk sail]

ESRI people In here ?

[granite peak]

Hi everybody, I hope this is the right channel to post my question. What do you think regarding Tensorflow certification. Is it something appealing on a resume, or is it just another certification ?

[mint oracle]

I think it's just another certifications

[granite peak]

ok, that's what I though 😢 , thanks @mint oracle

[hearty island]

ummm, guys????

i think i made it to the next round for ||REDACTED||

also i got another interview for another position

ok i have an interview on dec 19th at 9:30 for ||REDACTED||

[regal axle]

I feel so bad for my old manager. I asked him to be a reference. He said yes. I don't think he realized that it would take him 1-2 hours just to upload his letter (grad school.) He is a very busy person who just likes to get through his work. But also I need it done.

[viscid dirge]

Could someone maybe pass me his python notes from when he was learning or any kind of of useful notes. Please and thanks.

[turbid gale]

Where do you guys find freelance jobs as a Django developer (and also in Web Development + AWS)?

[gritty rivet]

Check the pins/search the channel but basically there's Upwork and Fiverr if you don't have your own network of clients and professional connections to rely on

[vapid jay]

I'm seeking to work for free with something here on any project type to gain experience.

[hearty island]

we don’t recruit, but you can check open source projects on github

[vapid jay]

My level is weak to be able to do that

[hearty island]

well you can certainly improve it by contributing

[vapid jay]

What are the things that I should know in python in order to contribute because with all the knowledge I have I cannot help with anything

[true harness]

you can create your own projects first, then move on to open source

[regal axle]

He ended up only doing half of them and then emailing me saying he did them all ... I will give him a few more days before I re send the links again. They are due on the 15th.
:fun:

His email was in broken english, so I hope he just meant that he did a bunch. I can't tell if he got the other emails or not etc

[orchid roost]

ok thank you

[vapid jay]

What are some jobs that ai won't be able to replace

[summer roost]

as things stand today, AI can't do any software developer's job

[haughty slate]

How do you decide what you want to do in a programming/software developing field, like, I know I enjoy PROGRAMMING itself, but I'm not particularly picky about WHAT I'm working on, which kind of makes it hard to set a goal for what I need to learn

[strong lava]

try a bit of everything
see what you're best at
go forward from there

[regal axle]

This is definitely fairly hard question to answer. https://roadmap.sh/ can give you some good inspiration about what topics even exist. But yea, just trying a bunch of things and seeing what you enjoy more or less is a good step.
That being said, keep in mind that you might end up doing something for work that isn't exactly your ideal work type. Actually, this is very likely. Even if you do pick a path.

[vapid jay]

Geared my skills section towards Data and AI. Thoughts? Put some broad things like "AI" for ATS.

[lapis wind]

Personally, I would ditch, JSON, Linux, REST APIs and change SQL Server integration services to just SQL Server if you know it.

Things like JSON, linux, etc... Honestly I would expect everyone to know, I wouldn't consider it a useful point to have explicitly stated.

[uneven pilot]

I agree^

[true harness]

geared towards data and AI but C# and HTML/CSS are before SQL and python? and you have barely any AI frameworks. i would cut down the technologies massively. "AWS" and "Azure" are so huge that not mentioning individual services you used i think is a bit of a 🥴. actually you have a lot of these. "AI", "LLM", "RDBMS"

[lapis wind]

Also definitely a hot take, but I find people listing LLMs as part of their technologies but having AI separately a bit tiresome. Unless you are trying to apply for some "prompt engineer" position 😅

[vapid jay]

yeah man, keywords haha

[vapid jay]

Keywords

[true harness]

i'm not really sure of the value of this

[vapid jay]

So ATS is so heavily used that having high keyword matches gets your resume see by more people. Im open to removing a few though

[lapis wind]

But is that using LLMs, or building LLMs and the system involved in doing said building of an LLM

if it is the former, meh, i'd argue anyone can spend an hour to learn the basics of it, and a couple more to do 90% of the tasks related to it

the latter, more interesting, but maybe put that as a separate section like portfolio or experience rather than technologies

[true harness]

and besides, just optimizing the skills section is not too fruitful. is there mention of these technologies in the rest of the resume?

[vapid jay]

most of them

Are we against "Rest APIs" Thats a pretty common question

[true harness]

i still stand by my original assertion that having such a broad term as a skill is not great

[vapid jay]

can remove JSON and XML I suppose. Those take like 5 minutes to understand lol

[vapid jay]

Its alphabetized

[lapis wind]

also wouldnt be a bad shout to group them in relation

[true harness]

why? it should be most relevant first, or most proficient first

[lapis wind]

i.e. PyTorch, Keras, AWS, Azure, GCP, Numpy, Pandas

[lapis wind]

and/or this

[vapid jay]

so im certified in AWS. I've used most of them, any particular that I should mention?

[true harness]

the relevant ones

it's not a joke. tailor your resume. if they mention a certain service they use, mention it

[vapid jay]

yeah, takes so much time

what do you think about removing Git? Feel like thats just an expectation?

[true harness]

i thought the same way, but i had space, so i just throw it on the end

[vapid jay]

Hi

I have 1 year of experience with Python and Gcloud infrastructure (I am also working on my Professional Google Cloud Data Engineer Certification).

However, the workplace I am in is only offering me $60k, whilst I am not wanting to be greedy, it really is not enough and nowhere close to the minimum salary for this profession in my area

Looking for advice on what to do.

[vapid jay]

what about this?

[lapis wind]

looks much better

[vapid jay]

Cool thanks! Maybe I'll do some tailoring as well for certain jobs

If they mention say, Amazon kinesis or redshift, Ill put that

[vapid jay]

this is with 40 hour work week but I end up doing more to catch up with due dates

[true harness]

i still think it's too long. you have django, spring, aspnetcore, and flask. why put rest apis still?

[vapid jay]

HR might not know its implied 🙈

[true harness]

HR isn't reading your resume to determine if you're a good candidate

[vapid jay]

I feel like its a valuable keyword too. Not because a human is looking for it, but because ATS will see it.

I bet about 1 in 10 roles mention the use of APIs

[hearty island]

https://www.volkswagen-group.com/en/articles/brand-group-core-improves-operating-profit-unit-sales-and-sales-revenue-increased-product-costs-and-interruptions-to-production-impact-profitability-17869 so i'm looking at this article for my upcoming volkswagen interview tomorrow

but i'm struggling to find a question that my interviewer could actually answer regarding it. like idk if he works for the brand core area, so the question might not even land?

this is for a sales operations analyst role

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/27/business/volkswagen-brand-no-longer-competitive/index.html the alternative was something like this, idk if this is too general tho?

idk, i'm just trying to figure out a good question to ask that shows i'm paying attention to their company. it's just kind of dry news-wise regarding the company rn

[turbid bobcat]

Have you guys seen the Gemini developments ? I know this is a question that is probly starting to get seriously old, but what is gonna be of the software development industry ? Are we really gonna have jobs 10 years down the line ? Because let's be real, this stuff is evolving really fast. Even faster than what I thought and is showing no signs of slowing down

[hearty island]

if anyone has any ideas, please feel free to ping me

[turbid bobcat]

Do you have gpt 4 ? It's really good at coming up with good questions

[hearty island]

nah

[turbid bobcat]

I can prompt it for you if you want, just need a prompt

[hearty island]

hmm maybe copy paste the first article and write a prompt saying: "write a thought provoking question based on the information i provided for an interviewer interviewing me for a sales operations analyst role"

[turbid bobcat]

Lemme see

[hearty island]

ty

[turbid bobcat]

I'm gonna link it the first article and see if it searches it

[hearty island]

that's prob a better idea

[turbid bobcat]

Based on the information from Volkswagen Group's article, a thought-provoking question for your interview as a Sales Operations Analyst could be:

"In light of Volkswagen Group's recent operational improvements and increased sales revenues, yet facing challenges due to production interruptions and rising product costs, how would you leverage your skills and experience in sales operations analysis to help maintain profitability and streamline operations in a similar scenario?"

For more details, you can refer to the full article on Volkswagen Group's website here.

Here's a list of thought-provoking questions for your interview as a Sales Operations Analyst, based on the Volkswagen Group's article:

1. Considering Volkswagen's recent improvements in operating profit and sales, how would you apply your analytical skills to further enhance these outcomes?
2. How do you plan to address challenges like production interruptions and rising product costs in your role as a Sales Operations Analyst?
3. Volkswagen has seen an increase in unit sales and revenue. What strategies would you suggest to sustain and build upon this growth?
4. Can you propose solutions for balancing increased product costs against the need to maintain competitive pricing?
5. What role do you see data analytics playing in identifying and mitigating risks associated with production interruptions?

For further details, you can refer to the full article on Volkswagen Group's website here.

[hearty island]

that's actually very helpful. i'll take these questions and run with them.

[turbid bobcat]

Awesome, I have no idea what any of this is

[hearty island]

yeah they emailed me on monday asking for an interview. i didn't want to resort to the default "can you tell me more about the team i'd be as part of this role" bc i feel like it's too generic. i wanna get more specific into what they do etc.

[turbid bobcat]

GPT4 is powerful. You either have it or you are at a disadvantage

[hearty island]

lol my uncle (he's a salesman) at oracle uses it

[turbid bobcat]

Yeah, what I mean is that if you don't use it you'll get substituted by people who do use it.

[hearty island]

i personally have no problems with llms, i just don't like that they produce inaccurate info and statements at times like info hallucination

[turbid bobcat]

For sure. However, it's all very recent tech so I don't think it's wise to discount it because of it.

I personally feel scared. It's all going veeery fast. Next year we are getting almost full multi modality from Google. And it is craaaaazyyyy. It sees and listens in real time.

[hearty island]

you're going to be fine

[turbid bobcat]

[hearty island]

so i have an interview for volkswagen tomorrow and an interview for l3harris

[turbid bobcat]

Nice, I'm still on leetcode + portfolio phase. I'm gonna start sending some CVs to NYC by the end of the month to test the waters.

[hearty island]

sounds good. wait i thought you were going for the bay area?

[turbid bobcat]

I am, but before I'm gonna use NYC has training grounds. I mean, ofc, who knows maybe I find a good fit there. But the point is so I don't waste opportunities in the city that I'm aiming for

[hearty island]

i see

[vapid jay]

Weird way to do it. I show interest by asking questions about the role im assigned to. If I applied to volvo and they told me I had to build an AI for them Id show an interest in that. I believe thats more what they are looking for.

[hearty island]

i see, ok

[turbid bobcat]

I'm bumping this, cuz I'd love to hear a take on this stuff.

[midnight frigate]

Also a bit concerned on this ngl, I don't want to learn computer programming languages just for my job to be overtaken by AI one day.
Probably the best option is to learn to develop AI atm.

[turbid bobcat]

100% my concern too. Is there really a point in making a career if it all goes away in 10 years time ?

[midnight frigate]

Although I show concern on this not all jobs will be overtaken by AI. Even in 10 years time jobs will still be open -- of course some aspects of programming might be overtaken but fields like advanced software development (more complex systems) and AI development would not be overtaken for a long while.
I don't think AI writing AI is a good idea overall.

Still go forward with programming as it won't be overtaken for a while. I would say go with AI Development atm as it would be the safest.

Right now AI might be more advanced in programming but it shouldn't be relied on.

[turbid bobcat]

I understand what you are saying.

But.

Have you seen the Gemini video ?

I hate to sound like an ad, but this is very relevant I feel: https://youtu.be/UIZAiXYceBI?si=kaw4XvM8w1rBi6Ir

On one hand, this is all amazing and I feel happy that I'm alive to see all this come to be. On the other hand, what's gonna be of my career, ? Is software really a good bet ? Let's be real here, if a bot can guess what you want from it via what you show with your hands, it's gonna be able to code quite well.

I mean, there's always the chance that the marketing is getting to me.

[summer roost]

what other career would you pick instead of coding?

[turbid bobcat]

All I can think of is also equally threatened by AI.

[summer roost]

right, so then - might as well not worry about it

either AI won't replace all those jobs, or we'll have a radical reshuffling of society and all the things you're currently worrying about will prove to have been the wrong things to worry about

or, more likely, we'll adopt new tools and people will become more productive and fewer people will be able to do more labor, list just about every other technical leap forward throughout all of history

[turbid bobcat]

To push back just a little bit, this all feels a lot different than the invention of the calculator, or even of the computer. Machines/programs are being built in the likeness of the human mind. And beyond. I can't help it but to be scared by the pace of development.

But I think your reasoning is solid. If the job of a software engineer can be replaced, then pretty much any job that is not physical labour can be replaced.

[fringe sphinx]

Incidentally the topic of Vonnegut’s first book: player piano. In 1952. Fears of automation taking over human work.

[midnight frigate]

Hm. So just another repeat of history basically. Humans fear of being replaced by automation.

[turbid bobcat]

I suppose, but won't there eventually be a time when those fears are well founded ? A "even a broken clock is right twice a day" type of situation.

[summer roost]

Machines/programs are being built in the likeness of the human mind.
They absolutely are not, unless you think that the human mind is just a text prediction algorithm. No respected AI researcher today thinks that anything today's AI does is anything that even resembles a "likeness of the human mind"

[turbid bobcat]

Uhm, they are becoming operationally equal to the human mind. That is, it's becoming increasingly difficult to distinguish from the outside.

[summer roost]

that's very different from "built in the likeness of"

[turbid bobcat]

Well, it's a whole discussion. My view is that once you are unable to distinguish, then you are not ethically allowed to act as if they were different.

But I concede that my wording could've been better.

[pine sleet]

I think this is exactly the premise of the Chinese room thought experiment, lol

[summer roost]

anyway, you're either drastically overestimating the capabilities of today's AIs, or you're assuming that the pace of breakthroughs that have happened over the last 5 years will continue or accelerate over the coming decades. And, either you're right, and society is in for a drastic restructuring when all knowledge work can be done by machines and we're headed for either a eutopia or a dystopia, or you're wrong and things will remain largely as they are today, at least in terms of what jobs people do if not necessarily how they do them. I posit that "humans are not overthrown by machines" is more likely, but even if you think the opposite, how is that actionable? What can you do today to better prepare you for a world where computers are paid to do all of the jobs that require human deliberation and creativity today?

[buoyant seal]

Technology is limiting current AI to animal level of intelligence of a dog.
It can be trained for a stuff u can train...a very smart dog/monkey but kind of that is it

• Can it win chessmates? Sure
• Can it play and win StarCraft 2? Yeah
• Can it safely drive a car? Ergh, hard to train for all stuff, but theoretically yes.
• Can it search information and generate text from it? Yeah, although it currently has limitations of high likelihood to receive convincing lies.
• can it be trained to recognize certain items/pattern? Yeah, although expensively
• is it capable of intelligent being thinking level? Nope. (And that renders it incapable to replace intelligent workers)

[buoyant seal]

To make AI possible replacing intelligent workers, u need a breakthrough at the level of opening hyperspace drive technology, having invented a new technology/approach to make it possible. What are the chances for that? Very slim

[turbid bobcat]

Assuming that compute does not limit the current pace of development, it really looks like we're in for a ride. Am I wrong in this ?

[summer roost]

I think you're wrong in assuming that LLMs are anything more than a more convincing Eliza, yes

But it really doesn't matter. Let's say you're right: what then?

[turbid bobcat]

I'm not even talking about LLMs though, I'm talking about their multi-modal cousins.

[pine sleet]

There's an upper limit. Like Darkwind mentioned, AI isn't "intelligent" in the same way humans are. It isn't sentient or sapient.
Barring significant leaps in technology, perhaps even more so than the discovery of fire or the transistor itself, the most AI can do is try to pretend and convince us that it's human, it's a puppet. And it's lack of intelligence puts an upper limit on how convincing it can really be

[native lantern]

Quick question on this: don't neural networks follow practically the exact same system as a biological brain? With enough size, wouldn't it be equivalent to a human brain and thus be the definition of sentient in some sense?

[pine sleet]

This is still a topic of contention in the scientific community, I believe. We don't know what exactly causes sentience/sapience/consciousness, it may just be an analog phenomena that's too granular to replicate in software or hardware. We just don't know

[native lantern]

Interesting

[turbid bobcat]

I don't think any of us know how consciousness works. And it is a bit concerning to see so many strong statements about it.

My concern wasn't even this. My concern is what comes before that, which is the possibility of us not having a career some X years down the line.

[native lantern]

What I have always thought is that as AI takes more jobs, there will be more jobs managing the AI.

[pine sleet]

My concern wasn't even this. My concern is what comes before that, which is the possibility of us not having a career some X years down the line.
AI, as it stands now, cannot be human-level intelligent. Therefore, it cannot replace a human-level intelligent entity (a human)
It will most likely change how we do our jobs, that's for sure.

[summer roost]

This is the career discussion channel, not philosophy discussion, so I ask again: what could someone do to better position themselves for a future where AI is able to replace developers (and presumably lawyers, engineers, academics, accountants, traders, etc, etc)?

[pine sleet]

Same as the invention of the calculator, or the printing press, or the loom

[turbid bobcat]

Yes I suppose that's the question I wanted to ask at the start

[pine sleet]

Well, I suppose calculators did put a fair few people out of jobs

[native lantern]

In the long run they developed into whole new fields with whole new jobs though

[pine sleet]

I think the trick now, that's most relevant to us developers & our job security, learn it's upsides, it's downsides, and it's limitations. They're tools, just like the ones we've already been using. We've got stuff like GitHub Copilot, which is all really great, but only if you know when and where is the time to use it

[summer roost]

Well, the realistic answer is that if you think there's a high enough chance of that future coming to pass, you should look for jobs that computers will have difficulty claiming. Some types of doctors, maybe. Politicians, probably. Executives. People who build or fix things, or whose job necessarily involves bringing comfort to people. Teachers, maybe.

[turbid bobcat]

So in your view, assuming "AI supremacy", coding is basically out of the game

[summer roost]

Almost everything is

[native lantern]

In theory, if we assume AI has reached human-level intelligence, everything is out of the game because currently humans do it all.

[turbid bobcat]

I'd think software would be the last thing to go since there needs to be someone coding the AI.

But probly by a small margin ig

[summer roost]

Professional software development is fundamentally a job of explaining to the computer what it's supposed to do. We'll have that job until computers can figure out what to do on their own. And if they can do that, they can likely do just about anything else, with perhaps the exception of some types of jobs that require personal interaction, and some types that require a physical existence

[vapid jay]

But as soon as open ai releases agi Q* that's over

[ionic berry]

is there a python job board on this server or any other?

[near ocean]

There are job boards in the pins

[ionic berry]

whoops, thank you 🙂

I guess I am looking more for one-offs and much smaller scope.

[vapid jay]

If anyone got a beginner project idea and wants to work with me dm me

[neon parrot]

I'd say some automation projects would be really useful, like extracting relevant information and making a 10min task turn into seconds.

I've recently worked on a data analytics project basically visualizing the data we have for a market space. Pulling the data from google sheets/excel. I used google API to connect to the sheet and manipulated this in Python using panadas. After I hosted this to my team via AWS with an EC2 instance, I used Streamlit to visualize the data and had to learn some Linux.

I'm currently learning Terraform as I'm told it's crucial with cloud, I'm also trying to learn Docker as this is also quite important.

What I'm struggling with at the moment, is I'm not sure if everything I've learnt is enough to land me a job. In essence I've learnt a lot but it's so overwhelming the more I've learnt the more I realize I know very little. hahaha

When do you all know you're job ready?

[vapid jay]

Mhm.

[ivory compass]

If what people say "Hiring managers just want someone with attitude and trainability. They don't want to hire genius jerks." is true then really you don't need to know much just the basic.

But the reality once you know how to beat technical stages then in the final stage it's about answering the question "can this person solve my business problem better than the other candidates?" If you can answer that then you are fit to go. Think to yourself with your skillset, what problems can you solve and what job titles do those entail?

For me it was similar to your case but using frontend and backend skills to not only extract data from external sources but to transform it then visualise it using data visualisation libraries in react. I went after jobs that had projects which were data heavy

[red atlas]

Robots already do my job but my company is too cheap to buy them 😎

[vapid jay]

They can't afford 10 bux per month ?

[fringe sphinx]

That's an over-simplification, but I agree with the general sentiment: be pleasant and competent. You don't need to be the smartest person in the room (you shouldn't even try). To the point: it's an oversimplification, there's lots of subtleties: but personality matters a lot.

[twin frost]

i'd be open to it!

[hearty island]

omg billybobby, do you remember the place you told me to never talk abt? it says i'm going to be interviewed soon. this is crazy.

[twin frost]

Hey all I recently joined this discord server. Are most of you all python developers?

Do you use python day to day in you work?

[hearty island]

depends on the role, really

[twin frost]

also, Im struggling to just build simple projects but find it difficult to build a GUI with python. tkinter sucks imo..

[true harness]

i think according to surveys, the server is mostly beginners/people starting to learn python. there are employed people though

[white relic]

Yes. Would not call myself a "python developer" though as it is not the main focus of my job

[hearty island]

guys, how do you decide between job offers? i'm only asking for the possibility it might happen. any insight is good.

[white relic]

Never had the opportunity to decide between offers, but I have had to decide whether to take an offer or stay at my then-current job. In that case it was the location that made the biggest difference.

[hearty island]

the speed of ||REDACTED|| is really making me wonder if i'm going to get a conditional offer before everything else, so that's why i'm asking

also like what am i even supposed to do if i get a conditional offer? turn down everything else?

[white relic]

Conditional on...

[hearty island]

i can't really disclose that here without giving it away

[white relic]

ah

well I guess it would just depend

[hearty island]

i see

tis what happens when these kinds of positions are applied to. discretion's like everything

[white relic]

I'll just comment, I have a great job, I make enough money. But I didn't get here by minmaxing my career. I could have found better money if I had been willing to move to California but I chose not to. I'm at some disadvantage in my current position because I don't have an advanced degree and I'm kind of pinned down because I don't have the necessary breadth of skills to make a horizontal move. I made some decisions that were not optimal, staying longer at a job than I should have, taking a pay hit to move states, just being generally complacent. But I don't regret them. It's important to recognize that if you want to have good work-life balance, live in a place you like, have a family, like your coworkers - those are perks a lot like your paycheck and your benefits. You might have to give up in one area to get what you want in another and that doesn't mean you're giving up your dream, it just means you're being realistic and choosing your future from the opportunities available to you.

[hearty island]

yeah i agree, it seems like a lot of give and take.

[white relic]

I think many people (especially students) can feel immense pressure to take the highest paying job they can get, and that's a viable strategy, but you have to run the calculations on everything else too

[hearty island]

like living costs, etc.?

[white relic]

and just generally what direction you want your life to go

[hearty island]

i also don't know how dangerous the job at ||REDACTED|| will be. i mean they say it's a desk job, but there's gotta be stuff they're not telling me

we shall see tbh

[white relic]

there's a big difference between moving to NYC and moving to Florida in terms of what your life will look like. Public transit? Hour long commute? House on a half acre with chickens? Apartment over a bar?

[hearty island]

yep, agreed.

[hearty island]

whatever happens, i think there's a good chance i get a job at somewhere nice

[twin frost]

this is what I am starting to learn

i'm in my early career. 5 years of professional experience. job hopped 3 times. Finally at a really great company and company culture is great

[turbid bobcat]

Doesn't Florida also have tornados and stuff ?

[white relic]

also alligators

[turbid bobcat]

How did going to the US imply a pay cut tho ?

[white relic]

I've always been in the US, I moved from one state to another

[turbid bobcat]

Oh I see.

[peak halo]

It's really the central part of the country that has tornados. Florida has alligators, hurricanes, and Floridian men.

[turbid bobcat]

Florida Man is an Internet meme first popularized in 2013,[1] referring to an alleged prevalence of people performing irrational or maniacal actions in the U.S. state of Florida.

[pine sleet]

the scariest of them all

[crisp stream]

the women and children too

[vapid jay]

K tell me

[fringe sphinx]

The northeast is great. For maybe 6 months of the year.

[cyan summit]

Northwest is the nicest, imo

But I could also see living in New England. I have family in New Hampshire

[true harness]

we are now moving into the other 6 months 😬

[hearty island]

ayyyyy guys, i got called by jpmc! they wanna interview me for: Asset & Wealth Management, Early Career Development Team – Program Support Associate

[hearty island]

i applied like 27 days ago, according to my job app tracker

[hearty island]

ugh, i think the volkswagen interviwer just gave me a hint i’m gonna get rejected

he said “emphasize your stories more” in the next round after our interview

[gritty rivet]

Take the advice as advice, don't interpret it as a signal

[hearty island]

you mean it wasn't a signal?

[regal axle]

"in the next round" does that not mean that you are moving on?
Also remember that no one interview perfectly and sometimes people like helping people. They might just be trying to help you out

[hearty island]

yeah, ig so

[dawn cloud]

hey , anyone please help me
my ctrl+c and ctrl+v
they doesn't copy and paste , they make the I thing a cube thing

[harsh river]

#python-discussion

[hearty island]

he also told me the next interview is an hour long. i mean if he shared that many details, that might indicate something. i can only wait and watch

[summer roost]

Sounds like a good signal to me.

But even if it's a negative signal, that's way better than a rejection without any explanation. At least you know what to improve on

[hearty island]

yep, i agree.

[golden tinsel]

Hmm

I don't really know what python will lead me to, I am just trying to learn the basics first.

[narrow summit]

hey so i wanna learn python, i did some java a few years ago and some SQL over the summer for a job. would it be best to go through codeacademy/udemy/etc or just just jumo into a project and learn on my own as i go along?

[fringe sphinx]

Could you ask over in #python-discussion ? There’s a lot of ppl there at different stages of learning!

[regal axle]

!rule 9

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[paper pawn]

Sorry, but i didn’t thought that would be a problem talk about this on this channel… do we have any channel to talk about open positions?

[regal axle]

No

[paper pawn]

Ok, that’s weird, but ok. I already deleted the previous message

[regal axle]

This isn’t the purpose of this server. Lots of reasons for that. You also have to remember that this server is full of people from all over the world. Even if having a job board was a good idea,,, it would be a logistical mess

[paper pawn]

I didn’t agree, but I understand and I’ll respect the rules

Anyways, talking about career
What do you guys think that is better for a Python/django developer to study thinking about getting a better job?
Another Python framework, like fastapi or becoming a fullstack with some frontend framework like react?

[regal axle]

It depends what your question actually. Are you asking what frameworks are currently highly sought after and therefore are good to put on your tool belt ? Or are you asking how to get a better job // better at your job?
Don't just chase frameworks. Be an Engineer, not a Frameworker (the actual article that is behind a paywall )

tl;dr don't just learn frameworks, learn to be a good engineer:

But your skill set needs to go much deeper than frameworks if you’re going to have success in your next job — the one where you get hired because you had 3–5 years of “engineering” experience on your resume. Otherwise, you’re going to be sitting in a very uncomfortable chair at that 90-day review.

[paper pawn]

That make sense, did recommend any resource to learn and become a better engineer?
I think my initial question is because I’m seeing pretty much more positions for fullstack engineers than positions for backend engineers. I would like to check if is this something you guys are also seeing or if it’s a bias view from my side

[regal axle]

It is more the case that backend engineers are not always called "backend engineers" even if that is what they are doing. But also there are definitely companies that want fullstack engineers.
Becoming a better engineer is both complicated and simple. The simple answer is to just keep trying new things and learning in-deepth concepts and not just how to use some frameworks. Properly learn how they work and what they are doing and the things they are abstracting away. And also "experience." But this is a very unguided answer. If you want some good ideas of what topics to look into for each path : https://roadmap.sh/

[paper pawn]

great thanks

[whole oxide]

So if I read design patterns I am already software engineer? I feel pretty comfortable in the concepts behind making flexible and reliable code. However, I feel like I am missing some pieces so that I can consider myself a solid engineer. I have a basic understanding about relevant topics from my computer science undergraduate. But I do not feel like I am very skilled/knowledgeable in things like AI, cryptography, network protocols, etc.

At the moment, I am learning a lot about software design, but I feel like I might be bottlenecking my self because of the previous reasons mentioned. My question: is there a rule of thumb I could use to decide I have learned "enough" about a certain topic to say "I know x?" or "I know how to do y"?

[fringe sphinx]

That’s a ‘how high is up’ type question. There’s no meaningful or concrete answer

You could ask: what do people interview for, and what criteria do hiring managers evaluate entry level candidates on, etc.

But ultimately: we expect not too much from a college grad: a good foundation, some programming knowledge, and hopefully some relevant projects. But you’ll grow once you land the first job and learn a lot on the job.

[whole oxide]

Properly learn how they work
How deeply? If I take one machine learning course from coursera, do I properly know how it works? Or should I get a PhD (being a little bit hyperbolic here)?

[fringe sphinx]

As a junior / entry level, it’s good to be familiar with lots of concepts… but unless you’re using them (for education or for work), you won’t reach any level of expertise.

So, keep learning, keep reading, keep growing but don’t worry about some threshold other than: how do I prepare for an interview.

[whole oxide]

That's a good point. I won't be an expert unless it was literally my job. I feel a little bottlenecked at my work, so I have been learning a lot about design and python on my own. However, I fear this might not be a sustainable strategy if my job never challenges me.

[fringe sphinx]

What’s your job?

[whole oxide]

I am a software engineer (entry-level) at my current company. I have learned a lot in the job, but it's definitely because of the extra mile I do with my tasks. So on paper, I am doing what I am supposed to be doing; being a software engineer. I feel like I have done a lot of self study after graduating to the point I probably (i definitely do) know more about python and software design than my fellow juinors and some senior engineers. Me saying that will probably give you the impression I have a big head--and I probably do at my current company/team--but I am not looking for a gold star or anything . I just want to be at my fullest potential. There is an obvious disparity in my job title and my skill level; however, I think this says more about my company or the team I am in. My skill insecurity comes mostly from what I imagine it would be like at a team or company with higher standards for software engineers.

[fringe sphinx]

What kind of company?

A lot of companies and roles are different: there are definitely unchallenging jobs that aren’t a good fit for some people.

[buoyant seal]

#web-development message
Learning reusable core skills like unit testing (minimum skills to survive in commercial level python), or writing clean code or refactoring, or having clean architecture. Or even system design.

Learning static typing with strict mypy/pyright, for which preferably to learn real static typed language (opens room for improved code structure, self documentation, custom code writing)

Recommending Code Complete by McConnell
And investing learning unit testing at least with books like unit testing by Khorikov and TDD by Kent Beck.
Your code will have then.. minimal level of quality to survive in interpreted language at some code scale

[whole oxide]

I am considering leaving soon enough. It is paying the bills right now., and it is definitely more money than I have ever made before. I am mostly using the experience to bootstrap myself. If I did not need need the income, I would probably not be working right now and spend a little bit longer studying and working on projects for a role I would appreciate more. Maybe at this point, I might just be able to land a more suitable job. I have been lucky enough that I have been able to convince my bosses to change the way we have been doing things so I have been getting some useful experience in "designing" a dev ops pipeline and now I am creating set of tools for my team that introduces an abstraction layer with robust practices over the very fragile and hard to understand tools we use.

If I did not know what good code actually looks like, I would have just become good at knowing how to navigate our codebase that heavily relies on tribal knowledge (and not readability and robustness).

[fringe sphinx]

Tbh, sounds like you’re doing the right thing. DevOps is extremely valuable skills to learn/develop, so take whatever experience you can! My usual advice is; learn adjacent tech (don’t over specialize), challenge yourself, hang out in #python-discussion (you’ll learn a lot), and watch conference videos to understand trends and get exposed to new ideas.

[whole oxide]

I figured if I am going to learn more, I should probably start talking to people that actually know more than me and have more experience than my current coworkers. I have no disrespect for them, but I am really trying to not stagnate.

[fringe sphinx]

Yup. That’s why i mentioned conference videos and pydis… good ways to listen to really smart people with very different experiences

[fringe sphinx]

Are you doing. AOC? #advent-of-code

Fun way to challenge yourself… but what’s fun is comparing your solution vs others.

[whole oxide]

I was hesitant to join servers like these because I think there is the stigma of people being kind of mean and condescending. But I can't let that stop me from learning lol.

I have not chcked that channel out yet. I just joined, but I will definitely be exploring this server more (:

[fringe sphinx]

This server is (very) actively moderated. That stuff gets shut down quick.

[fringe sphinx]

And welcome!

[peak halo]

We want this to be a welcoming place for beginners. And you'll find that experienced people are pretty eager to share what they know. If you feel like someone is being condescending, consider that they're probably well-intentioned, but also don't be afraid to point it out over @severe widget

[whole oxide]

This is the path I have been currently taking in my journey. I have been reading a lot about clean code recently. How does OOP design and software architecture diverge?

I am curious because being a software architect sounds like something I wanna be someday

[peak halo]

Job titles in the computation world are famously arbitrary. I doubt the job responsibilities of software "architects" actually differ all that much from software "developers" or "engineers"

I suppose a software "architect" is responsible for planning larger systems, with the expectation that many of the implementation details will be worked out by developers to whom components are delegated. But I would just consider that person a more senior version of the other decelopers, rather than someone with a different occupation.

[keen estuary]

naming tech jobs with real world jobs names like engineers is cringe af

[violet magnet]

Hi.

I'm a hobbyist programmer and nerd. I have a neocities page with a list of different projects. https://divsel.neocities.org
The biggest one is https://neorings.org which is a full stack django/react app that is dockerized and deployed. I'd really prefer if the source was only available to people who were considering for a job kinda.

I have no bachelors degree because I 13 years ago I was arrested for possession of substances. I pass background checks since its been so long, but I don't have any official education. I just know a lot of stuff.

Are these sites too unprofessional to apply for a job citing them as proof that im not an idiot?

I feel like i would have to heavily sanitize it. Like pages like this can't look good. https://divsel.neocities.org/beingalive/

[vapid jay]

uhh why?

yes, I can see you have thought about this very carefully, and hence your opinion is valuable

[keen estuary]

yes, I do care that if whether my opinion is valuable for you

[violet magnet]

I feel like its pretentious for people that have never engrineered anything to call themselves engineers, but i think the best programmers among us are engineers

[vapid jay]

my goodness, someone has had a reaction to your (very carefully thought out) opinion on a public space that is designed to elicit other people's reactions, but... dun dun dun! you don't care!!! 😱 truly, my social scruples have been subverted beyond recognition

[leaden jasper]

let's not use this kind of language please. It's ableist and not really in line with our code of conduct

[keen estuary]

do i really have to respond to this shit? lmaao

[vapid jay]

so, one thing is, say look at what some coders* are doing with embedded systems. that is certainly engineering. they are optimizing limited resources within a well-defined system by using mathematical techniques in the service of a practical end

[vapid jay]

please do, I might learn something

[keen estuary]

i highly doubt that you'll learn something

[vapid jay]

if it's logic, I won't. you certainly do not seem to know much about that one

[keen estuary]

just go read the definiton kid

[leaden jasper]

@keen estuary@vapid jay this back and forth sniping is going to stop right now. Neither of you are engaging in good faith and this discussion is going nowhere.

We have a higher standard for how people engage in this channel. If you can't adhere to it, you will be muted.

[vapid jay]

he is a very rude person. every single interaction I've seen him have with people on here has been very rude. hence my reaction to his (yet once more) rudeness. anyway, I have blocked him. I will not even see what he says anymore.

[keen estuary]

too bad

[violet magnet]

do you think its worth it to get ibm full stack cert if i know i already have 90% if the knowledge and i have no other education in programming.

[leaden jasper]

Your reaction has crossed the line for what is acceptable. If you have an issue with this and feel moderation action is needed, then DM @severe widget.

!mute 1178551227269779459 1D I was very clear about what is acceptable behavior in this channel. Take this time to re-read our #code-of-conduct and re-think how you engage with others in this server. We hole people to a higher standard in this channel and you are not meeting it.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied timeout to @keen estuary until <t:1702100990:f> (1 day).

[vapid jay]

it depends on what you need it for. in general employers don't pay much attention to certifications, but in some places they do because of institutional policy, basically. for instance, some places require certifications to meet some partnership agreements

[violet magnet]

yeah but I think you have to think inside the lens of someone that doesn't have a bachelors in anything, let alone CS. I basically just have years of hobby projects. I would be trying to get any jr developer position, id probably even accept not great pay just to have experience. Basically anything to put down when I apply other than, "Look at my stuff."