career-advice

[vapid jay]

Notepad on top

[outer granite]

Does cybersecurity have coding?

[gritty rivet]

Yes... Many cybersecurirty professionals need to understand and/or write code, and anyone writing code should at least understand basic principles of cybersecurirty.

[pine sleet]

Usually. Though the focus is usually not as much on code as it is for software engineers

[outer granite]

How and where exactly do I learn cybersecurity, aka from beginner to master?

[strange dirge]

Yo

[sly valley]

I have a question about jobs and careers.
My background:
I’ve graduate last semester with a bachelor’s degree in computer and electrical engineering. I’m currently in my first semester of PhD in computer engineering (neural networks and digital image processing). I’m not working this semester, and have never worked in tech, so i’ve taken a book in python (python course 3rd edition) and memorized it; I can build and utilize projects from any part of the book, (2d video game, data analysis of rain, temps, earthquakes, plot them on globe plotly visualization, API basics, making app with Django and add register and login system, as well as basics of html/css.

(Im not sure if this helps: i’d like to say i’m pretty good at tech. This may sound basic to some, but i’ve always been able to fix computers, PlayStations, iphones in both software and hardware.)

My Question:
i dont really know how much experience/skill the typical applicant has. I have this feeling that everyone has been coding since teenage and that i wouldnt be able to get hired for that. (im 22). I’m looking for a starter job, how do i match for them? What about higher than that?
(I understand i said memorized earlier, i mean that i can manipulate the code without the need of snippets, so i have a complete comprehension as far as what the book offers.

Thanks!

[pine sleet]

i dont really know how much experience/skill the typical applicant has. I have this feeling that everyone has been coding since teenage
Some have. Not everyone, though. It's good that you have a degree in ECEN, while it's not the same as that of a CS (and most fresh grads and interns applying for SWE jobs will be CS degrees), it should be good enough.
Don't try to "memorize" Python like you said you have - understand how the pieces fit together, and most importantly, practice. Build projects, contribute to open source. You can put all these on your resume. Also apply for jobs - previous work experience is most valuable - more than personal projects or a degree

[sly valley]

I’ll definitely start building projects to expand on these skills. Are there jobs i might as well not apply to because i’ll most likely not get accepted? What level should i be looking for? All “entry” level jobs on indeed.com and glassdoor ask for years of experience, which begs the question of where to start and how to start as early as possible.

[pine sleet]

Job postings look for unicorns. Just because you don't meet a requirement doesn't mean you shouldn't apply. Plenty of people have applied to jobs they don't qualify for and gotten it, because they were the most qualified out of everyone else

[sly valley]

Ah, okay. Thank you for the clarification. This is helpful info, I appreciate it!

[vapid jay]

I started with no prior knowledge by watching networkchuck videos, they were pretty informative. After that I moved on, I never got to mastering the skill, however there’s some courses on coursera that will probably help you aswell.

[gritty rivet]

The job market in tech right now is awful, especially at the entry level. Don't expect to see a bunch of jobs that you're clearly qualified for. Just apply and apply and apply.

If you're finding all the jobs you apply for on places like Indeed you're doing it wrong and don't stand much chance. It's all about networking to find the jobs fewer people are applying to. Here's a good article about this: https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/advice-for-junior-software-engineers/

Get as much feedback on your resume as possible and keep improving it. You can share anonymized screenshots in this channel for starters

[sly valley]

Thank you so much! I do need to expand my networking as well. I’ll be sure to read through this to see how to better move forward.

[vapid jay]

Is a master's degree in software engineering worth it with no work experience

[smoky quest]

it gives access to deeper roles and new fields.

[vapid jay]

im getting a 2 yr degree in computer programming since my college said it is good for getting a job quickly after college. im also working towards getting certifications in a few languages i wrote down to study, one of them obv being python. so a 2yr degree, certifications for a few programming languages, plus a portfolio, and maybe a few extra subjects like web langs and knowledge in any particular field of specialization i choose, is that a good foundation to get a job? like the thought of actually having to go out there and get a job is intimidating ngl

[vapid jay]

i think it's ok however from what i've seen personally most jobs expect a bachelor's degree cus its the expected standard

ah that would suck. i could just transfer my credits and get a bachelors if i have to. i tend to prefer studying on my own since i can go faster

[white relic]

2-year degrees aren't really common in the US at least

[pine sleet]

It is preferable to get a bachelor's in computer science (a 4 year program), and do internships over the course of that program. Those 2 will greatly improve your chances

[vapid jay]

u could prob just check urself and check the comparison for jobs w associates vs bachelors

from what i've seen bachelors is basically the norm

[white relic]

I've never seen an applicant with an associate's degree in CS or a related field. Entry level jobs pretty much start out at bachelor's degree level

[vapid jay]

i would really enjoy doing that. i kinda bungled my first two years of college and so im like 2 years behind basically. i could just get a scholarship back though since i think i still qualify for it or something. i could do comp sci fine, im just hesitant about having to graduate at 24

[white relic]

Ah that kind of sucks

[vapid jay]

man education got really messy during the pandemic. we missed a lot of class looking back on it. i missed the first year of college because of health concerns, then the second year i just didnt do very well after i came back

[white relic]

I still think your best option at this point in your education is to pursue a bachelor's degree. That doesn't mean you can't get a job in 2 years from now and finish the degree while working. But I think getting a two-year degree and stopping there is probably going to be a mistake in the long run

[vapid jay]

alright, thanks for the advice. i can maybe figure out a way to afford the latter 2 years

[white relic]

Be aware of possible location related differences. Your college recommended the two-year degree, which may mean it's more useful than I think. Or maybe they don't really know and they're just trying to make more money out of you

[vapid jay]

i mean, comp sci would probably be the ideal degree, and i can still be accepted back at my previous uni due to the circumstances in which i left. though idk if i want to, since that school has kinda degraded rather drastically since the pandemic and they might not have the resources for students anymore

[smoky quest]

no one will care about your age, especially when it's just 2 years difference.
Project yourself in the future, when you are 52 or 54 years old, won't matter in the grand scheme of things

[vapid jay]

thanks. i feel nervous even just being 20 and i kinda always feel a certain anxiety around time and all that, but i know people who went to college in their middle ages. i think people would forgive me for the awkward two years given the special circumstances. ugh i hate covid.

[smoky quest]

it's an unreasonable fear, no one will care

[gritty rivet]

LOL I got my first dev job in my 40s and my.boss is half my age now... nobody knows nevermind cares who is 22 versus who is 24

[teal cargo]

which degree?

[livid ocean]

I was checking if the person I replied to replied back and saw this.

Damn, then I must have gotten super lucky. I self taught myself python and three years later I got my first SWE job at Indeed. I never realized how lucky I was when I got it.

I think what helped me the most was getting a referral. But that mostly gets your foot in the door. After that you're on your own to prove yourself on your on merit.

[icy valve]

so i wanna start making commissions for coding but ive only done about a year of coding in python, idk if i should go through with it

[stuck shell]

as higher schooler which college/university courses should I take to get ahead of the game for programming?

[finite crypt]

i suggest you first take harvard CS50 introduction to computer science and CS50 introduction to game development.You find them on edx and both are free

[finite crypt]

and also Introduction to video game development with Unity

[lean tulip]

y'all lets see which one gets more votes -

1. vscode
2. PyCharm

[smoky quest]

How does that relate to #career-advice ?

[lean tulip]

um

Idk I just wannna find out which one gets voted more and there was no "general chat" sorry if I violated any rules sir.

[smoky quest]

What makes you think I go by sir?
#python-discussion or #editors-ides might be more appropriate for this question 🙂

[lean tulip]

oh okay thanks, I usually refer to anybody as sir as a sign of respect and being humble 😊

sir/ma'am whatever fits 🙏

[smoky quest]

np

[finite crypt]

I self taught myself python,c++ and learned data structures and algoritms .Also i learned tkinter and i did simple apps like an weather app , an snake game a clock app and an calculator app. But i dont have any ideea what shold i do next. When i watch tutorials and other things i only find simple basic stuff or very hardcore projects. Bruh

I dont know what level of coding is considered enough for an SWE job

[smoky quest]

what's your situation?

[finite crypt]

what do you mean by "situation" ?

[smoky quest]

are you 12 years old or 56 years old with a long career and grand kids?

or someone with a phd in medtech

[finite crypt]

haha, No i almost finished useless high school in romania and i wonder what to do next

[smoky quest]

it's gonna be tough.
front end is an easier entry point for self taught and there are roadmaps like on https://roadmap.sh

However the market is tough with thousands of applicants with awesome degrees, projects and internships

[finite crypt]

what is considered an awesome project ? for example?

[smoky quest]

making your own programming language

or detecting people based on their gait

or multiple drones that collaborate to map out an area

[finite crypt]

ok, thanks

[smoky quest]

these are projects I see for candidates for internships

[reef marsh]

imo you can start by

• Choose a path you want to do. recursive suggested FE for example
• Build projects and eventually a portfolio - This will serve as a strong CV and can set yourself apart in the market

Extra steps can be taken, but only after you have a path to set on. Let's use frontend as an example:

1. Build up your basics:

• Start with ideas that are old but can test yourself - you know how to make a calculator, now try to create a web-based calculator with more animation, events, add in some extra functions like ... weather checking

2. Build up your deeper knowledge:

• Dig deeper into the technologies of your path. In Frontend, you often hear about React, Vue, Angular, … You can demonstrate yourself by learning about those frameworks, or master one but with a deep level of understanding. For example, build a game using React is a good project - build your snake game, but this time, web-based and on React

3. Update

• Never stop reading, there will be new things almost every week - new convention, new tools, new technologies, new design patterns - keep yourself updated

I like the programming language challenge too - it can demonstrate a variety of skillset and knowledge, which is also a hard one. If I recall correctly, there are programming challenge lists out there with good ideas too.

[smoky quest]

@finite crypt ^ great advice

[finite crypt]

great advice , thank you

[warm trout]

hello , can someone give me a code source of website based only on html css javascript? please i need it to day

[eager jungle]

How important internships are for a job opportunity?

[fringe sphinx]

Since this comes up a lot: Can you tell us more about this? What did you do during those three years to prepare? Is there any advice you’d share for others?

[hearty island]

very important and very helpful

[fringe sphinx]

Internships are ideal, but any work experience is helpful... and the more relevant it is to your field, the better. Working in a University IT helpdesk, for instance, is also valuable and useful.

[tepid vortex]

I agree that either way the goal is to get inside a company where you can get experience. Of course, one would like to get paid.

[eager jungle]

So freelancing jobs which is very similar to my field are a lot better than internships?

The reason for my question is, i don't have any good internships available for my field in my location, so i was worried that would hurt my job opportunity

[hearty island]

freelancing is difficult to get into

[eager jungle]

I have already done it, i have some moderate experience with getting clients in freelancing, it's just i did it in a different field of ETL engineering

[hearty island]

ah i see

[eager jungle]

And, does online internships count as effective as in-person internships?

[hearty island]

yeah, three of my internships have been remote

[eager jungle]

That's assuring to hear, Thanks 👍

[hearty island]

np

[livid ocean]

Sure! My programming journey started when I was younger (like 14 years old) and I basically started with excel and modding call of duty black ops with Lua. The next, time I programmed was when I wrote an iOS app for tracking my pizza deliveries. However, I didn't get serious until I became a Reddit moderator. I found opportunities to automate and optimize moderation. I started small by writing small bots at first and eventually wrote bigger more complex bots and tools. Next, understanding the fundamentals of programming helped a lot. This was something I picked up a lot from excel since that is a form of programming and using Swift Playgrounds on iPad. Swift Playgrounds is also strong recommendation I have if you've never written any code.

A lot of my programming was pretty much:

1. I need this problem solved.
2. Knowing the general high level code to achieve solving the problem. Knowing how to Google and what search terms and terminology to use is a huge plus and will help immensely.
3. If I don't know how to do a piece of the solution I would basically Google "how to do x in Python 3.x"
4. If an error occurs, Google said error. 99.99% of the time it's a problem with what you did and someone else made the same mistake.
5. Read other people's code and learn how it works.
6. Look back at your older code and improve on it.

After a couple of years of writing bots on Reddit and discord, I started contributing to PRAW (Python Reddit API Wrapper) and a year or so later I became a maintainer of the project.

When the pandemic hit I applied for a job at Reddit because they had embraced remote work and paid as if you live in SF. I applied for a job on their developer platform and the next day I had a hiring manager call and bypass recruiters because of my PRAW work. After 4 months of being strung along, losing my recruiter after she went to Vegas, and making it to the last stages of interviews, I didn't get the job. What finally got me in was I had a bot moderator friend who recently got a job at indeed and he put in a referral for me. They called and I interviewed and in 3 weeks I was hired. It was mainly luck and indeed going through a hiring frenzy that I got the job.

Some general tips:

• Learn as much as you can about the technologies you use
• Learn programming lingo. This helped a lot with Google searching.
• Don't use ChatGPT when learning. It will do more damage to your skills than it teaches and will become a crutch. You can't use ChatGPT in interviews.
• Do programming problems to prepare for interviews. Research problems you struggle with and learn more about the concepts tested with that problem.

[fringe sphinx]

I love this. Getting involved in an open source project and showing sustained contribution over a long(ish) period of time, gave you experience, a community (for referrals), and something to put on your resume.

[livid ocean]

Bingo

I also cofounded a 501(c)(3) to accept donations for bots myself and two other friends. Which is basically making a job for yourself because it's a legal entity on paper and you can put it on your resume.

[raw nest]

The chatgpt one isn't completely true, I wouldn't depend on it for learning new stuff, but they do help a lot when it comes to quick debugging. CoPilot is more dangerous and I've seen beginners using it, It doesn't do any good nor teach anything unless we use it for boring Work projects or something.

[livid ocean]

You missed the part when I said "when learning"

[sand zinc]

Great tips!!!!

[sand zinc]

Nowadays, beginners often skip seeking the answer themselves and immediately ask ChatGPT. This, at least for me, hinders learning a lot

[raw nest]

you're right, i just skimmed through

[raw nest]

yep true, i mean my generation depends on Stack overflow and the generation before that depended on asking to experienced ones. I guess we're evolving

[peak halo]

!warn 1135755277472378990 Posting random ascii art is considered spam. Please refrain.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @sharp prawn.

[hearty island]

stuck in limbo 😦

[modest kraken]

Would collaborating with classmates to make a website for a school program count?

[white relic]

Depends what you mean by "count". It's not really "work experience" but it's far better than nothing

Especially if you can point out specific skills you developed while working on it

[white relic]

What platform is that? LinkedIn? Just curious

[hearty island]

internal careers for goldman sachs

[white relic]

Ohh got it

[hearty island]

i did do my amazon stuff yesterday, so maybe there's some promise

[fringe sphinx]

Not as experience, no. That’s certainly expected and good stuff for ‘projects’ in your resume though.

[regal axle]

What BillyBobby said. But also, it can be decent if you expand it past just what you did in class. If you take it as a starting point to make it more. Those types of projects will help you get an internship. And maybe a job. Depending on what you do

[regal axle]

I have it on good authority that Amazon has been on a hiring freeze for awhile now. But it is interesting to see that they are pushing you along. Since you can’t start till many months out, they might be finally getting ready to end their hiring freeze.

[hearty island]

that would be wild if i end up working for amazon in the end, only 10 kids from my school made it there

no that's not true bahaha, 202 ppl made it

[sudden geyser]

How good for resumes would you guys say a hackathon competition is? I placed 3rd in a recent one and want to add it

[fringe sphinx]

Definitely something to add. It shows your passion and interest. "How good" is unanswerable, of course.

[echo snow]

Is it possible to get a job with only python knowledge?

[near ocean]

Anything is possible, its not probable though

[echo snow]

Like I can't create any software or fix any bug in any other language but python

[near ocean]

Youre not much of a carpenter if you can only use one very specific hammer
This applies here as well

[echo snow]

That's a nice and fun example 😅

Though most jobs I've seen on indeed requires:
Skills in: Java, c++, python, mysql, Ruby etc

[summer roost]

the overwhelming majority of jobs will require you to work in more than one language

[vapid jay]

guys I need some help/guidance I feel like im stuck its been more than one year i've been learning python and still feel like I cant actually code

[echo snow]

Although I'm not looking forward to applying for these jobs right now as I haven't finished university. I was just curious. I'll start applying 4 years later

[summer roost]

by the time you've finished university, you will almost certainly know several more languages

my uni classes used at least 5 different languages, off the top of my head

[white relic]

In a year, I'm sure you've learned more than nothing. have you written any code beyond just copying from tutorials?

[echo snow]

Oh... But majority still require more than 1 languages?

[summer roost]

yes

[vapid jay]

yeah mostly DS and Alg and some django projects and still dont feel comfortable with leetcode problems or to actually take a project and work it through

[white relic]

Leetcode problems aren't really what I would consider a useful tool for self-evaluation

(or anyone-evaluation, really, but they are used, so...)

[near ocean]

Its a fun minigame for when you get bored at work and nothing else

[echo snow]

Oh... But doesn't it take a minimum of 2 years of consistent learning to master a language? How do universities teach 5 languages in 4 years?

[digital fjord]

They don't teach to mastery, they teach enough to let you make a qualified decision on whether you want to master the language (at least in theory, a lot of the time the classes just make you hate the language).

[summer roost]

"mastery" isn't even a well-defined term, I think. I don't see how you could possibly measure that

[echo snow]

Alr

[white relic]

Many people get stuck because they followed a lot of tutorials but they haven't practiced doing things that they don't know how to do yet. The best way to get out of that is to do a project that you don't know how to do yet, but isn't so far out of your ability that you will be completely frustrated and give up. Maybe take an existing project you've worked on and think about how to add a feature or bring it to completion.

[smoky quest]

there is more to a language. Languages are just like tools and what matters is what you can do with them, not how many of them you master

[echo snow]

Yeah that's true, a French python lord with almost 20 years of experience told me that he hasn't still mastered python (but he is really really good in python)

[summer roost]

I've been programming in C++ professionally for nearly 20 years, and I wouldn't say I've mastered it. I've been programming in Python professionally for around 8 years, and I'm closer to mastery of it, but there's still a lot of stuff that I don't know

[near ocean]

Youre not gonna master any language in 2 years, theyre much larger than that

[echo snow]

Yeahhh he also says that there is a lot of things he doesn't know in python (which I refuse to believe cuz bro has been on python for almost 20 years)

[vapid jay]

yeah I feel like im just watching different things in the same time and cant focus on one thing

[echo snow]

Yeah, "mastery" wasn't the right term

[fringe sphinx]

all i can think of is: "The more I learn, the more I realize how much I don't know". - Einstein

[echo snow]

Tho, it seems like you're very familiar with c++ 🔥

[summer roost]

honestly, less over time. I think I knew much closer to 100% of C++03 than I know of C++20

[digital fjord]

There is a massive gulf between knowing everything in the language you need to do the things you want to do, and knowing everything in the language period.

[summer roost]

C++ in particular is an absolutely massive, incredibly complex language. Pretty much everyone agrees that you should only use a tiny fraction of the stuff in that language. If only they could agree on which portion...

[near ocean]

People are more interested in what you can do with how ever much you know of x language than how much of x language you know

[echo snow]

But I didn't really really mean "master", I meant, at least... How 90% of the in-built functions of the language works. Like sorted for python

And I say 90% cuz I think new functions are added in some updates like python 3.10... But idk tho

[summer roost]

you probably will never use >50% of the built-in functions in Python. There's a lot that are very rarely used or useful

people care about you knowing enough about a language to use it to get useful work done. That's a fairly low bar. By the time you're learning your 3rd or 4th language, you'll hit that point in under a week or two

[near ocean]

I had another analogy about how mastering english doesnt make you a best selling author but it didnt go through 💀

[echo snow]

Do you think this is true? I guess you'll know since you're really good with both c++ and python (and probably Cpython) @summer roost

[echo snow]

That's good to know cuz I actually thought people would want you to have like 10 years experience on that language that's not your main language

[fringe sphinx]

These comparisons are often really tough and meaningless. There's no point of comparison, there no basis for "percentages", etc, and leads to circular discussions.

[near ocean]

No idea what that means but also c++ boomers shouldnt make their opinions public

[summer roost]

chill with the ageism

[fringe sphinx]

To agree with this: I was productive fairly quickly after switching from Java to Python... but I think took me a good 6 months to really get used to the new "style", and a full year to consider myself reasonably knowledgeable (at least in the areas I need to be)

[echo snow]

Fr bro, I've been speaking English for the past 16 years (or maybe for the past 14 years cuz I guess I didn't speak for my first 2 years) and I feel stupid when I find some English words that I never knew existed 😭

[white relic]

Even if it were true, what would that mean, practically speaking? If the argument is that you don't need to learn C++ because "Python can do everything", I disagree with that on principle

Maybe Python can do everything c++ can do in some kind of theoretical sense, but you might still need c++ for interfacing with a particular library or for nontechnical reasons

or maybe Python really is capable of everything you need C++ to do, but learning c++ would still broaden your mind and make you a better all-around programmer.

[echo snow]

Python won't have that library? 🗿

That particular library? 🗿

I'm not really arguing tho, don't take it seriously pls

[white relic]

Or maybe Python isn't capable of doing everything C++ can do, but you don't need to do those things and you have other stuff to learn and you aren't interested in C++ and learning it would be a waste of time

[summer roost]

I've chosen which language to use for a project based on the availability of a certain library more than once

including choosing to use languages that I didn't really know, and needed to learn on the fly in order to use that library

[echo snow]

This is good to know

[white relic]

all I'm saying is, "Python can do everything C++ can do" isn't an argument for anything in particular. Certainly it isn't an argument against learning C++

[summer roost]

it's also empirically untrue. You can't write a kernel driver in Python

[white relic]

I guess that's supposed to be covered by CPython

[true harness]

Cython, presumably

[white relic]

Right

[summer roost]

it's not, though. You can't write a kernel driver in Cython, either.

[echo snow]

Hmm, I'm only 2 years in programming in general and I didn't know you could literally learn a whole fricking language just to use a library 💀

[white relic]

Learning a new language isn't really that big a deal when you know 4 or 5 already

[echo snow]

Good to know

[summer roost]

and most languages are pretty similar

at least, most of the commonly used ones

[white relic]

Most languages are smaller than many libraries

[echo snow]

This is how most c++ and python arguments starts 😅
But I guess you guys are gentlemen and gentlemen don't argue 🗿🍷🗿

[summer roost]

I use both of those languages every week for my job. It's not an argument - each of them is the best tool for different jobs

[white relic]

I mean, there's not really anything to argue. I don't know much about Cython so I assume it's a true statement but it doesn't faze me

[echo snow]

But if that French guy with alot of python experience was here... Maybe he could have writing a kernel driver in python (if possible) just to prove you wrong 💀

[summer roost]

He couldn't, at least not using Cython or CPython

as a general rule, Python code can't run without a Python interpreter, and the kernel does not contain a Python interpreter, so it cannot run Python code

[smoky quest]

https://medium.com/@yon.goldschmidt/running-python-in-the-linux-kernel-7cbcbd44503c

If there is a will, there is a way

[summer roost]

👀

[echo snow]

Yeah that's why I said (if possible) like if he did some research on "how to create a kernel driver without c++" or his general programming knowledge knows that it's not possible, then he wouldn't create one

[summer roost]

looks like it works by linking a micropython interpreter into the kernel module itself. Interesting

[echo snow]

The debate is already over! Python and Cython can do everything c++ can do 🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥

[summer roost]

that's not Python or Cython, that's MicroPython - a different language, written in C

[echo snow]

Oh

[smoky quest]

In theory both languages can do anything.
It's more of a matter of "has someone spent the time writhing the stuff to make it easy"

[white relic]

People have a quirk where when we are really good at something, we get used to being right all the time and then we start talking about stuff outside our area of expertise without making the mental adjustment.
It's possible the Frenchman is very good at Python but doesn't know much about other areas of programming.

[smoky quest]

In some other kernels, the architecture could also be such that drivers could be written in any language. You do run into other trade offs, but that's a different topic

[echo snow]

Chill sir, its not a serious debate pls, it's all jokes here and there 😅
It seemed like you added that "a different language, written in C" to give cpp +1 point... But idk tho

[summer roost]

C and C++ are different languages, too

[echo snow]

And the French guy probably knows almost everything about MicroPython

[echo snow]

ye

[summer roost]

in any event - this project show that someone wanted to write Python code that runs in the kernel, and they achieved that by writing C code. They didn't achieve that by writing Python code. That's my point.

[white relic]

But what does he know about C++?

[echo snow]

Bro?

[white relic]

If you're going to be comparing Python and c++, it would be useful to know both pretty well. And what he said doesn't seem to be the kind of thing that someone who knows both well would say.

This has drifted pretty far from career discussion though.

[echo snow]

Almost 20 years of python experience and he wouldn't know how to write c++? Is that even possible? Like to learn Cython, won't you need some C knowledge? Idk tho

[summer roost]

this has taken an interesting turn. You started off saying you were surprised that jobs required people to know multiple languages, and now you're saying that of course someone who has written Python for 20 years would also know Cython and C and C++

[echo snow]

Oh

[echo snow]

As a newbie in the programming world (only 2 years) I thought for you to have almost 20 years experience in python, you'll definitely know other languages, since I was never really 100% sure, that's why I kept trying to add "idk tho" to tell that I'm not sure cuz I'm a newbie to the programming world 😅

[echo snow]

And BTW, the answer is yes, he also knows c++, c, Cython

[echo snow]

Also, about the part where you said "Someone who has written Python for 20 years would also know Cython and C and C++"

Yeah, he knows all those languages including c#

[white relic]

Good for him.

[summer roost]

we've wandered way off topic for #career-advice. Let's try to rein things in

[turbid bobcat]

Idk if Cython is good for large projects tbh.

Is not fun to debug 3 languages at the same time

[echo snow]

Let's get back to discussing about careers 🗣️📢

And by "let's" I don't mean us specially

You and the other guys has already given me all the answers I needed, thanks for that

[echo snow]

Fr bro, or projects that python can't run in 0.0000000000000069 secs (I'm exaggerating)

[turbid bobcat]

Feels like that argument against ORMs, you need to understand how the SQL is generated in the first place to get good SQL generated. Might as well just hardcode it.

Very similar here I feel, if you that concerned with speed you gonna eventually end up poking around the in generated C files to check if they good. And then the C files themselves generate assembly code. Might as well just write good C code from the start

[echo snow]

While waiting for their response, I just decided to ask here 😇

@summer roost that's the French guy I was talking about

[echo snow]

That's the he/him of the past hour 😅

[summer roost]

"fake"?

[echo snow]

When he said "he'd rather spend time building shit than fighting a compiler or memory corruption" do you have to deal with that as a c++ expert?

[regal axle]

That was a response to not your message. But to responde to your message; if you are an expert, you will not be fighting those things. You might deal with them from time to time. But not fighting them. But this is also getting way off course of #career-advice.

[summer roost]

those all sound like jobs that would exist to me

[turbid bobcat]

why would they do that ?

I'd think they do that only if you did something super offensive.

idk, to me just sounds like a good way for you to filter out companies you wouldn't want to work for in the first place

[true harness]

why would there be a noncompete if you aren't even hired .

[summer roost]

I can't really think of anything like what you're describing here. The closest things I can think of are that if you perform work for a company as a contract employee contracted out for another firm, the company you're doing work for can't hire you directly until several years after your contract ends. Also, if a recruiting company refers you to a company, the company needs to keep the recruiting company in the loop, and can't cut them out and hire you directly to save on the recruiter's cut

[gritty rivet]

You're talking about a recruiting company refusing to work with you because they think you applied directly to one of their clients? Yes, that could happen, but that's the recruiters problem... If you can apply directly that's what you want to do and you do not want to work with scummy recruiters who think they can own you

[fringe sphinx]

I've never heard of this. But, recruiters will take issue if you try to go around them for a job they introduced you to. (godlygeeks comment below is more accurate)

[summer roost]

once a recruiter has referred you to a company, that company likely can't hire you directly (for some length of time) and they need to go through the recruiter instead. But that's not really an issue for you, that's more minutia about the relationship between the company and the recruiter, and not something you need concern yourself with

[smoky quest]

There is a big jump to scummy here.

the problem is if the candidate try to short circuit the recruiter when the recruiter introduced them and did all the leg work.
If it was done independently and without knowledge, then that's not a problem

[gritty rivet]

I had it happen to me inadvertently and the recruiter had a total hissy-fit.

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, it's come up a lot. And, sometimes the recruiter will send me a resume I've already seen, and I'll let them know/etc. Not to get anyone in trouble, but so the recruiter doesn't try to claim $$.

[smoky quest]

yeah, they might but if it's not on purpose, that's on them.
That said, it wouldn't be the first time and won't be the last

[gritty rivet]

To me it's just another example of how useless these parasites are. I'm sure if you're hiring for more advanced roles or working with really good recruiters it's different, but my experiences as a job seeker working with recruiters has been overwhelmingly negative and I will always try to apply directly if there is a publicly listed opening.

[summer roost]

🤷‍♂️ There's good recruiters and bad recruiters, just like - well, every other job.

[fringe sphinx]

From my vantage point, recruiters are necessary. Not perfect, and some are slimy, but the ones I work with are good at filtering candidates down to a small (ish) number for review. They know what I look for, and save me a lot of time.

But, maybe it's just that I only work with really good recruiters. There's a few of them I just wont work with.

[turbid bobcat]

does anyone know anything about timelines for the quantum computing stuff. I've been exploring the idea of quantum ai, and is super cool, but the tech to scale it isn't there yet. Will this become a valid career path in the near future ?

[summer roost]

anyone who claims to know the answer to that is trying to sell you something

[fringe sphinx]

speaking of... this was hilarious: https://www.tomshardware.com/software/security-software/quantum-rsa-2048-encryption-cracking-breakthrough-claim-met-with-scepticism

(the kicker of the announcement is: the so-called inventor is trying to sell a product, and it's clear BS)

[turbid bobcat]

can crack the strongest RSA encryption keys in use today due to a mathematical technique that “has been hidden for about 2,500 years – since Pythagoras.”

bruh

Europe seems to have a 5k qbit computer - https://www.eetimes.eu/a-quantum-computer-with-5000-qubits-now-in-europe/

the quantum annealer has over 5,000 qubits and is therefore big enough to help with application-related problems that are typically calculated on supercomputers

[peak halo]

Quantum computing isn't just "computers, but way better and faster". They also have a different approach to computation. So it doesn't go without saying that quantum computing would actually have anything to offer for AI. but given the availability of quantum computers, and even if their availability went way up, I expect that only teams of physics and CS PhDs with decades of experience will get a chance to run experiments on them.

[turbid bobcat]

I'm actually running algos on quantum computers using AWS

[peak halo]

interesting. how many qbits to they allow you to use at a time?

[turbid bobcat]

Like 5 or 10, lemme show you

stuff is a bit down rn, but they come back

I've been reading a paper which constructs a quantum perceptron neuron, and seems reasonable to me

https://aws.amazon.com/braket/

[peak halo]

perceptrons and neurons are two different things. but I was just wondering if one can have either on a quantum computer, so that is interesting.

[turbid bobcat]

my understanding is that a perceptron is an artificial neuron

so the one im reading now, from what I can gather, you have a series of inputs which are qbits, and for each qbit you have an operator (quantum gate) which alters the phase of each qbit, the amount of phase that is changed for each qbit is what corresponds to the weights of the connections, then they apply the so called quantum phase estimation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_phase_estimation_algorithm

Im super new to this stuff, and I most certainly have questions, but it looks reasonable

[peak halo]

perceptrons and neurons are both inspired by biological neurons, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they actually operate similarly.

as far as ML is concerned, a perceptron is a very simple linear separator, whereas a neuron is the smallest unit of a neural network.

[turbid bobcat]

uhm, does the terminology workout that way due to CNNs ? since they're not based on the traditional perceptron thing

[peak halo]

it's not because of CNNs, no.

[turbid bobcat]

then I don't understand the terminology, I'm looking at the equations in wiki and the perceptron seems to be the unit that composes the usual dense layer

[summer roost]

y'all realize this is #career-advice right? 🙂

[turbid bobcat]

ah, sorry.

but this does raise the question, because this is actually a project im doing for my portfolio, will people assume I'm lying or something ? I'll leave running code and mention the amazon braket stuff ofc, but I'm worried about those initial 6 seconds when my cv is in the pile

[peak halo]

setting quantum aside for a moment, academic credentials are more important for landing a job in AI than in any other programming-related field. do you have or are you currently pursuing a degree that is related to AI?

[turbid bobcat]

no I have industry experience in AI

[peak halo]

what is your industry experience?

[turbid bobcat]

uhm I've trained models and put them into production

[peak halo]

for what kind of company?

[turbid bobcat]

startup type company, digital asset management, I mostly did stuff to the images, like semantic guided human matting, facial recognition, classification, etc

[fringe sphinx]

Why would you think people might think you’re lying? Because qc is esoteric?

[peak halo]

I see. It's fine if you want to mention your investigation into quantum AI, but unless you were going to work in a lab that's specifically researching quantum AI, it would probably be better to highlight your experience with (for example) transformer-based models or CNNs, since those are more likely to be useful for what prospective employers need to do.

[turbid bobcat]

yes, and from the start of this conversation, seems like more than esoteric, sounds like there's people going around trying to scam others - it's giving me crypto vibes tbh

[peak halo]

I agree with that intuition.

[turbid bobcat]

right, I'm just trying to stand out from the crowd with interesting projects that show my capability to work on challenging and diverse subjects. one of the projects I'm planning will actually get me to work on trnasformers, I found a way to give lamma the capability to hear, so you'll actually be able to have a voice conversation with it, and it will integrate information in real time

it's super cool and not that hard to do, you just inject user input in between next token generation

the only true issue is if the model is actually able to understand what's going on, I feel like gpt4 would be capable, not so sure about lamma

[fringe sphinx]

With work experience on your resume, your work experience is the main thing I’d look at. So, totally agree with Stel: highlight what you’ve done for work. But, if you have done side projects with QC, I would still list it. That’s an interesting conversation starter, and shows motivation and interest beyond work, which is a plus even if you’ll never use it. But: the experience section is what counts

Beyond experience: open source or community contributions, or Kaggle competitions or things like that are great things to add to a resume

[turbid bobcat]

Yes I understand, I have cool stuff to list in the experience section and I always do: "experience" -> "projects" -> "education"

I'm not currently employed, so I have time to practice leetcode and polish my projects section. And I'm also taking the opportunity to learn a new spoken language.

[fringe sphinx]

Do you have an undergrad degree? If you have the resources, an evening college course (in person) can be helpful for several reasons… besides the subject, it shows you continue to pursue education, and is sometimes a good source of networking.

[turbid bobcat]

yes I have a BSc in physics, I do have an MSc thesis to finish, but it's not the right time to do it

networking here is not very useful because the objective is to relocate to the bay area and im not in the US

[fringe sphinx]

Oh right, we’ve talked about this before!

[brazen island]

Personally, what matters more for me is that someone has done something from A-Z and chose appropriate tech. People in CS adjacent domains put the cart before the horse when chosing their stack sometimes and it can be a red flag 🤷

[turbid bobcat]

I believe so. I have decided that I will eventually finish it, but I'll make it a priority once I'm where I want to be with my career, which hopefully is something that will happen soon enough

[turbid bobcat]

I'm going to apply to places which are famous for receiving tons of applications, so I'm trying my best to standout. I have some referrals in a couple of companies, but I can't just assume I'm gonna make it in two attempts.

[brazen island]

So, there's a difference of what impresses you and what impresses your audience (HR + hiring managers). Will those 2 care about quantum AI or will they care about something tangible potentially done with sci-kit learn?

[warped sentinel]

guys i have a question, right now i'm doing a master degree in healthcare data science, do you think its easy to find jobs as a datascientist in the healthcare field ? or maybe it depends on the country where i'm living ?

[brazen island]

Actually, whether or not it uses Quantum, sklearn or anything else is secondary to the thing being finished and tangible, both for HR and hiring managers.

[turbid bobcat]

So you would not be impressed by it ?

[brazen island]

I'd hear you out but I'd ask very direct questions because "resume driven development" is scary. All code and complex solutions are liabilities. They need to be proportionate to the problems they're solving for you to tolerate the liability they bring. Understanding you shouldn't cut tomatoes with a chainsaw is important.

[turbid bobcat]

If you asked me why you did it, I'd just answer cuz the subject is fascinating to me. I believe it is a very serious direction for AI In the future, so I wanted to play with it

[brazen island]

I mean sure, I personally work in AI R&D. I always tell everyone that our job is to not use ML. It's a complete headache.

[turbid bobcat]

it's a project I'm doing in my free time, for my own enjoyment, which is cool and makes me stand out, I don't think it's fair to evaluate it as if it were something I was doing on the job

[brazen island]

But you said you were doing it to get a job, no?

For instance the last person that interviewed and got a job with us had a MS CS. They had many side-projects, some using ML, some not using it. To them it was a tool to solve a project and not the be all end all of the project itself. It shows in how she approaches work compared to the rest of the people in my dept, her work is typically a lot better because it's goal oriented.

[fringe sphinx]

Similarly, I’ll hire the first person who has mastery of these (EDA) topics: https://www.itl.nist.gov/div898/handbook/.

So few jobs in data have anything to do with ML or AI.

[turbid bobcat]

it's like, one project, you'll find other less exploratory stuff on my portfolio, which solve real world problems

[brazen island]

I should add nuance to this btw, if you work in ML/AI and have experience doing it you typically have a good sense of the projects it does and doesn't make sense and your job is to resist the urge of using it, reserving it for projects where it's the best option.

To do this, you obviously need to have used it first 🙂

I can give more elaborate examples in #data-science-and-ml because this is going a bit off-topic I think 😄

[turbid bobcat]

Idk, I'm personally gonna stand by it. Besides being interesting to me, a quantum neural network is just a cool project to have on my CV, and I reckon it's gonna be fairly unique and eye catching for those first 6 seconds the recruiter puts eyes on it.

[brazen island]

Tbf, I don't even think all your projects should be min-maxed for the sake of your career. If you want to do it, do it. I don't think people should rationalize doing things that interest them for the sake of their careers in the first place

[gritty rivet]

Right... You can always decide later whether and how to include a given project on your resume when applying for some specific job.

[brazen island]

idt I've ever picked a side project for the sake of it being relevant for a job. My spare time is mine and "holy". Realistically you should be able to get over the line easily with education + maybe an internship alone.

I don't know why CS has placed such a big emphasis on grind culture 🤷

[smoky quest]

they did mention that it was interesting to them though. So killing two birds with one stone

[brazen island]

Assuming it's purely for career there's likely going to be things higher up the priority list of skills to acquire etc etc

[icy valve]

where should i start posting availability for coding commisions and how should i do it?

[smoky quest]

pick your market place, your target audience, fashion your ad around why would your audience care

[icy valve]

thx, any site suggestions?

[smoky quest]

fiverrrrrr? upwork?

[icy valve]

i have never heard of fiver till today, is it good?

[smoky quest]

no idea, haven't used it

[summer roost]

@icy valve I don't believe we have any regulars in this channel who have made gig work on freelancing sites into a full time job. Which might tell you something about the odds of succeeding at making any reasonable amount of cash on one of those sites, or it might just be selection bias

[icy valve]

Hm, I mainly just want a type of job, need to start making money and applying for jobs ain't working

[summer roost]

how much experience do you have?

[undone cairn]

I've been working in an consultant firm for 5 years, I was aiming for a management position so i went for a wide set of skills from infra (linux and windows server related, selinux) to data collection (scraping in python) , db(db like oracle, mssql, also some big data platform like mapr), etl (SSIS, talend, datastage, python with sklearn), bi (Cognos, Tableau). If I want to switch path to ml, how should i get started

[icy valve]

In coding? I've been doing it for a little under a year now

[summer roost]

how much professional experience do you have outside of coding?

[icy valve]

Uhhhhh nothing ig?

[summer roost]

are you a teenager?

[icy valve]

17

[summer roost]

are you in a developed country with a reasonably large tech sector?

[icy valve]

Idk, does canada count?

[summer roost]

yes

[icy valve]

Then yea

[summer roost]

so, the odds are very high that you would make less than minimum wage on a gig work freelancing site, when you factor in the hours spent searching for jobs fitting your skills and submitting bids. You'll be competing with kids in countries with a very low cost of living who've been coding longer than you have, and for whom $10 is a lot of money

if you need to start making money, something like fast food or retail likely will pay you considerably more money per hour of effort than coding commissions would

[icy valve]

Trust me, I've tried everywhere, I've redone my resume multiple times, I never get a reply back, this is like a last resort type deal

[smoky quest]

A CS degree will be the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[icy valve]

CS degree? From a post secondary place?

[smoky quest]

like a bachelor/license

[icy valve]

A bit of an issue considering I'm still in high school

[smoky quest]

then in that case:

• Make sure you have awesome grades so you can get to the university/college of your choice
• Have fun and build things

[radiant locust]

Hello, I have been programming for a few months, but I’m starting to feel like I’m not making any more progress in my coding skills. Is there any specific place on the internet that you would recommend to help me learn how to be more fluent in python?

[pine sleet]

It might be time to pick up more advanced projects, or look into contributing to open source work. Or even apply for internships or jobs, there's a lot to be learned!

[radiant locust]

Thank you, I was thinking about it, but I wasn’t completely sure, I’ll look further into it

[fringe lily]

don't bother becoming more fluent in python, work on generalised coding concepts and apply them to multiple languages (or just python if you'd like, makes no difference at this point), you can start with the wizard lectures if you're serious about programming.

[radiant locust]

Thanks for the useful advice

[fringe lily]

tbh if you go implement the activities in SICP in python and just watch the wizard lectures when you can't commit the headspace to study by the time you've finished it you'll be better than like everyone who is going for jobs at the same level as you

for context i work with this guy who is wicked at SQL, like intensely good at it, knows about how the query optimiser works etc, and the help he provides me even when he knows nothing about python is far more than anyone else who did a few python modules in their maths degree or smth. it could also be because a lot of the python i have to write for work is about SQL in one way or another but i still think the point stands

[radiant locust]

It does make sense, I really appreciate the help you’re giving me

[brave swallow]

im seeking advice on what to pursue as my career among these three Mobile Game Programmer, Mobile App Programmer, Web Developer lets say i can learn and get a job on whichever i choose. im looking for comments why i should choose this one instead of that one, for example in web development its highly saturated compared to game development but the advantage of web development is better career growth in the future (these is just an example)

[buoyant seal]

Mobile Game Programmer is sub specialization of Mobile App Programmer
I would just say that Game industry as far as i know a bit overstressful as far as i hear

Web Developer / Backend jobs are plenty in demand, they are always in demand for more
As well as interesting to become Mobile App Programmer (at least for Android to me, i would not wish to lock myself into Ios/Apply ecosystem)

Mobile direction looks interesting from the point of higher chances to reach higher level of programming skills easier if to go with Java/Kotlin choice at least
Web Developer / Backend job looks like easier to me just to enter, kind of looks like to me with lower entrance skill a bit. 😅 (At least u can start backend pretty fine with higher range of languages)
Although i remember we made games during university for android pretty fine too

[buoyant seal]

Web developer / Backend can be done with same Java/Kotlin as mobile development 😊
You could leave yourself room with having chosen primary language that is good for both directions

[regal axle]

Both mobile dev and web dev are solid options. One won't win out over the other. They both have similar importance and job security. I would suggest trying to do small projects in both of them (I know you said 3, but I am putting the mobile stuff together here) and seeing if you end up liking one more than the other. Both career options have toxic work environments and I don't have stats if one is more than the other. But the one you are more passionate about is the better option.

[brave swallow]

those are new informations to me im one step closer to deciding thank you joshie darkwind duck

also i've been hearing the same thing about game development that its an intensive field which make sense to everyone

[buoyant seal]

yeah, as far as i hear mobile development is done with stuff from
Electron/Javascript/Native React (potentially most awful and least satisfied direction)
to Dart
and natively recommended Java/Kotlin direction (potentially very interesting)

While Web backend you can go fine with starting
from Python to Java/Kotlin and a lot of other languages in between can be chosen (Again javascript/typescript, ruby, php, C#, golang)
U will need to learn additional ecosystem for Web backend though, SQL databases, getting better with Linux/Docker, and other cloud stuff
Additional fluff of knowing ecoystem around Mobile or Web will lock you a bit into one direction due to you having more acquired experience in it eventually

[brave swallow]

i have a strong foundation in python and javascript and i've been liking web development as of 1 month of learning but im still considering mobile app development. btw im asking these questions because i am applying to a tech company specializing in those 3 developments i've mentioned earlier

so i guess my next step is SQL if i am to proceed in web

[buoyant seal]

working with javascript is potentially very messy direction with not a lot of satisfaction. Typescript is better though.
Python is kind of very dev comfortable, and has option to go for code architecture with mypy/pyright on a strict modes (Which is similar to Typescript), but high chances u will not encounter devs which support going into this direction

It is interesting to start career from stronger language like Java/Kotlin because...
...Yeah, it is more difficult from a start to write in static typed langs, but than more you write in them, then easier it is to continue writing code as its growth/scale
in interpreted languages like Python/Javascript, it is Easy to start, but getting way more hell of a difficult to continue later

When you go with static typed languages, there is certain freedom in expressing your code architecture easier at a scale... (you have no strain to change half of hundred files at the same time without breaking your code)
...as well as materials from books like Clean Architecture/Refactoring and etc is properly applyable. Hard to apply code architecture stuff when u don't have enforced public/private methods, abstract classes and interfaces.

At the same time starting with Python is just easier as i said.

[brave swallow]

i get the idea of how static typed languages work because of my freshmen knowledge on c++

[brave swallow]

this is very informative

[buoyant seal]

yeah, i warn you in advance then that in interpreted languages it is way different. U need very carefully unit testing to save yourself in each step of developing in interpreted languages, in order to compensate for lack of static typing throughly
And often how code works u can discover only on runtime during visual debug of unit tests again

There is certain attraction to be static typed dev from a start. Slightly regretting not being one from a start. It makes me spending a lot of free time to catch up and learn in addition.
I enjoy habing ability to code more complex stuff easier in static typed langs like Golang 😅 no difficulty to code far more complex stuff without strain on brain

[brave swallow]

after all that im still 50/50 to web and mobile app... gonna need more thinking as this might be my first job as a freshgrad

[brave swallow]

ahh an advantage of static typed

[buoyant seal]

yeah. at the same time language like Python has a lot of stuff boilerplated and in mature state. So you can just code a lot more with less code lines than in Golang :/
Shrugs. I wish for now going after all more into static typed direction. At least because it has more room for code architecture that can decrease complexity of code. I don't like to be limited in expressing code architecture. It is far easier gathering code in reusable modules/libraries in static typed lang

[prime stream]

guys , please
I wanna roadmap to review python

[brave swallow]

kinda funny because python has type hinting which makes it kinda semi static typed language? lmao i dont know

[buoyant seal]

yeah, u can go like 99% static typed in python in strict enabled mypy or pyright. so called Gradual Static typing.
Except it has problems that it is not natural typing added to dynamic typed language.
It is kind of.. somewhat more brain challenging mental gymnastics doing it in it (it is far easier doing it in real static typed language)
And as i mentioned problem that very rarely you encounter other python devs capable to do that and supporting it. Easier just to go with Java/Kotlin/Golang if u wish to have all devs adhering to this way and being sure you will be working with code base that is typed in any company and situation

[brave swallow]

that make sense

[hearty island]

damnit, rejected by UBS

[hearty island]

honestly saw that coming a mile away

[hearty island]

can’t believe i spent a weekend doing their stupid assessments

[stone siren]

help me how to determine my index in Pycharm

[hearty island]

try #python-discussion

[vapid jay]

Does anyone have knowledge of GitHub?

[fringe sphinx]

Lots of us do. Just ask the question, but not here... ask in #python-discussion

[obsidian matrix]

Hey guys, does anyone here have worked for websites like Upwork using Python? I think websites like that would be my only option of working, i want to know what i need to learn aside from syntaxes to work there

[white relic]

It is hard to make a living freelancing on sites like upwork. It can be an option for making pocket money if your needs are already taken care of, or getting by in a region with a very low cost of living. But I wouldn't recommend it as your primary income source especially if you're just starting

As for what you need to know, it really just depends on the job. As you are just starting out, you may not be able to understand what you need to know to do a particular job, and it's easy to accidentally over commit yourself. This is another reason why it's hard to start out freelancing

[white relic]

Also read #career-advice message

[obsidian matrix]

That's my case, i'm from brazil, any coin i make on dolar would be much better than pretty much any average job here

[obsidian matrix]

Yeah, i'm looking for my first job here for like 4 months already, no luck, everywhere i went they were asking for experience, which i have none.

[white relic]

It's a difficult job market right now, that's for sure.

[obsidian matrix]

Yeah :/

guess i'll just keep training by myself and try my luck next year, maybe things get better by then

[hearty island]

the curse of how to get experience without having experience

[fringe sphinx]

You should go for a job at a recruiting agency at this point.

[hearty island]

you really think i won't land something by may?

[fringe sphinx]

I'm just joking. You have the equivalent of a decade of experience dealing with recruiters, it seems.

[hearty island]

oh, i wouldn't say that

[hearty island]

it seems like recruiters want nothing to do w me for now

[delicate bane]

yeah some peeps are waiting till 2024 (if theyre trying to job hop) but idk how much that actually changes things

[white relic]

I mean, if you can afford to wait...

[delicate bane]

job hoppers are def in a dif situation than entry-level peeps for sure

[hearty island]

hmmm, i got a personality test from AON

[white relic]

I feel very fortunate that I love my job right now

[hearty island]

maybe this means i got past the initial screening, but no getting my hopes up rn

[white relic]

Never liked personality tests

[hearty island]

agreed dude

but aon must get so many apps, they have to filter ppl out somehow

[white relic]

but yeah I'd say it's a good sign

[hearty island]

thanks trentj

i appreciate the support

[true harness]

personality tests are horrible ngl

[hearty island]

absolutely

i will still do it tho

[peak halo]

what does that say about your personality?

in either case, having a personality test as part of a hiring process is a red flag.

[hearty island]

but it's AON and i desperately need a job

still waiting on port authority of ny/nj

[deft herald]

What is aon?

[hearty island]

british-amurican firm that provides retirement, investment, and "human capital solutions". specializes mostly in risk mitigation products

[deft herald]

Ok so sounds like finance stuff

[hearty island]

basically, yeah

[strange lake]

I need to hire a python master but I don't think it is allowed here. Can someone help me to find where I can post this information in a discord style community?

[fringe sphinx]

https://youtu.be/uf3-kqAoYzI?si=Z0K9LQv5B-HtgdmA

[modern thistle]

Any network engineers here? that have taken python as their primary language. just want to ask some career advice and paths.

[deft herald]

What do you want to ask?

[gritty rivet]

Hiring a Python dev on Discord sounds like shady business... What's wrong with normal job boards? There are some Discord servers that allow job postings but none focus on Python AFAIK. There are the two job boards in this channels description and of course there are LinkedIn, Indeed, etc.

[modern thistle]

Im CCNA and Linux certified / CCNP in process candidate.
Trying to learn python for network automation. I was wondering how valuable this is going forward esp learning python and things like paramiko netmiko to help automate my process...

[hearty island]

indeed is so fucking annoying with companies randomly asking you to apply to them, they spam me like crazy. wish the feature never existed. and most of the time it's never actually the company trying to prompt you

[gritty rivet]

I've heard it's pretty useful. I'm not a network engineer but I've met at least one who regularly does some automation in Python

I imagine if you search around on LinkedIn you can find some folks who do this and post about it

There's a GitHub repo all about Python for sysadmins and that probably includes some relevant tips

[modern thistle]

yea im purely network guy but the automation is where the industry is moving towards so i need to be prepared.

thanks for your input

[vapid jay]

I don't understand.
The hiring departments keep proposing me the same offers, after knowing my current pay/contract.
You're supposed to offer me something better, if not, I'm good where I am

[vapid jay]

Eh it really depends on the company.
Here we have the boss who refuses any kind of automation, because is deemed less secure, and fears that clients won't pay

[smoky quest]

Hi, we don't do ads nor recruitment

[trim gulch]

buddy this is a python-related discord
(doesnt look like pygame)

[keen plover]

is there any easy game/projects i can code with python to help me learn it faster? im talking basics lol

[smoky quest]

wrong channel but an answer could be the "guess the number"

[keen plover]

can u point me to the right channel?

[smoky quest]

#python-discussion would be a great place!

[mortal nymph]

hi people, could some one tell me about global logic interviews to apply as Ssr Software Engineer? How could i prepare for an interview?

[echo snow]

k

[gritty rivet]

Are you asking for the interview questions used at GlobaLogic, the company? I googled it for you.... https://www.glassdoor.com/Interview/GlobalLogic-Interview-Questions-E23009.htm

[smoky quest]

Can you give more context about your situation and your goal?

[mortal nymph]

I read a lot of interview reviews on Glassdoor. Thanks for helping me find the same! You're the best!

[mortal nymph]

I'm looking for tips and guidance on what a Glassdoor interview is like, how to prepare, and any resources available. Maybe it's a bit of a challenging question 🤔

[smoky quest]

what's your current job?

oh wait, I may have read too fast. Are you talking about entry level software engineer or Senior software engineer?

[mortal nymph]

ssr software engineer, but I've never applied to work for large companies. You know, I've only tackled home challenges or answered simple questions about Python on interviews. What I'm looking for is information to prepare myself for a successful interview, regardless of external factors like a bad interviewer or a subpar tech lead, etc...

I'm going to keep asking. Anyway, thank you guys so much.

[cedar cedar]

#python-discussion message
#python-discussion message

@fringe sphinx

[fringe sphinx]

VCs certainly bring technical experts in before investing in a business. They don’t invest blindly

[cedar cedar]

I assumed there was some level of that, but dont know how deep it goes

Startup culture isn't really vibrant here in eastern europe lol

[fringe sphinx]

And most VCs have a group of professionals they rely on a lot, often people from companies they’ve invested (that’s how I got involved)

[cedar cedar]

were you like, interviewing the other company?

[smoky quest]

due diligence can be as low or as deep as one want, depending on how knowledgeable/thoughtful is the VC and how much money is involved.
It could be as far as pinging covertly competitors or as much as doing nothing because the market is crazy and everyone is pouring money into that segment and there is fomo

And sometimes, the people behind the startup matter more than the business itself

[fringe sphinx]

In my work, I’d meet with the engineering team (usually in a series of meetings, not as a group), talk about their design decisions, roadmap, engineering processes. It was somewhat an interview. I might look at code, but I didn’t really have enough time to do any meaningful code level analysis. What I was really looking at was architecture.

There were other firms that specialized in code analysis, such as black duck: https://www.synopsys.com/software-integrity/software-composition-analysis-tools/black-duck-sca.html

[fringe sphinx]

This is def true… the team is the most important part. As they’d say: execution is more important than the idea.

[cedar cedar]

really insightful stuff

[grizzled tundra]

Hey guys, what is a python infrastructure automation engineer role about? I know its not automation testing but I wanna know what does a person do in this role?

[pine sleet]

What does the job description say?

Titles don't mean a whole lot, varies a lot between jobs.

[grizzled tundra]

Okay I just looked at the job description.

 Job Description:
    2+ years of Python experience with any frame like Django / Flask / OpenERP.
    To have sound knowledge on coding, designing, deploying and debugging .
    Creating the APIs(SOAP, Restful API).
    To work independently on the existing framework which is helpful for Automating the legacy applications.
    Ability to integrate the third-party libraries or applications to the existing Framework.
    Creation and implementation of workflows as per the customer requirement and incorporate them to the framework.

[crisp stream]

from the title, I'd have assumed some knowledge about cloud/on-prem infra, but the JD doesn't seem to include that

[pine sleet]

SOAP

[crisp stream]

[balmy spade]

Am I just not thinking of the correct OpenERP or is that an odd thing to list with Django and Flask?

[warm venture]

Hello guys
Please, does anyone know what kind of test (python or Django) I should be expecting. I have an interview test which is to be done in hackerrank. It's a python Django Developer role. I don't know whether to prepare for python test or Django test before the interview test.
Please, I need responses urgently.

[white relic]

Only someone familiar with the company and its hiring practices would know what kind of test to expect.

It may be worth asking the recruiter or hiring manager (whoever your contact is at the company) what the test is about.

[buoyant seal]

python infrastructure automation engineer
according to your job description...
...it is just a regular Backend role.

With some additional Code architecture/system design twist may be
and deploying part potentially hints on having all DevOps duties in addition

[grizzled tundra]

Yes that's what it seems like. Thank you!

[rapid solar]

Is there any job portal here?

[hearty island]

no

[stable rose]

What certifications are popular with employers?

[buoyant seal]

AWS certificates (from AWS itself) are popular and valued for Backend and DevOps people 😅
At least for job roles involving AWS

[stable rose]

Sorry, I should have been more specific. What Python certifications are popular? https://pythoninstitute.org/certification-tracks?

[buoyant seal]

None. (CS degree serves as a good certificate, or at least any STEM related degree)

[buoyant seal]

https://codingchallenges.fyi/challenges/challenge-json-parser
https://nedbatchelder.com/text/kindling.html
u can make portfolio of projects, it will serve still better than regular certificates

[stable rose]

Hmmm. I'm considering a career change after decades in Java. Trying to figure out a path

[buoyant seal]

oh. i am in kind of similar shoes from one language migrating to another one 🤔
I will remention again idea regarding public projects then. Quite solid enough proof.
Besides that, ergh, i guess may be certification makes sense in your shoes then, but projects should be still better 😅

[stable rose]

Thanks @buoyant seal

[buoyant seal]

The thing with any certificates will be that they will be potentially not super relevant to your case and they are all kind of questionable
I haven't heard about any Python certificates to be recognized tbh. So it means almost any certificate is equally good or not good.

But made pet projects? That can be surely good
As well as projects in technologies u wish to get hired. if u seek python backend, then Django+DjangoORM / Postgres / FastAPI+SQLAlchemy some stuff to have, and Celery stuff
With Pytest / Mypy or Pyright / FactoryBoy
(listed common tech stacks)

[wheat shard]

guys any suggestion i really need help im trying to apply for internships

[white relic]

What kind of internship are you hoping to get when you presumably graduate next spring?

[hearty island]

i'm not a big fan of the order

i do like your projects. what type of internship are you looking for?

[white relic]

it's not too early to be interviewing for a full time position and are you going to do an internship your very last semester?

[wheat shard]

im tryinng to find one as data science

[wheat shard]

yeh because i was applying for a year but i didnt find any

[white relic]

not really what I was asking. When are you planning to do this internship?

[hearty island]

oh i didn't realize when you're graduating

i think you should go for the jugular and try to apply to full time jobs

[wheat shard]

I need it this month or next month I'm going to graduate in may

i tried i applied for many positionss but i didnt find any i asked for referrel but no reply at all

[white relic]

internships are usually offered by the semester or over the summer

you don't have a summer left so would you be doing this internship in your last semester?

[wheat shard]

its not obligatory in my uni but in my country i can apply for internships any time its just depend if u are going to find one

[wheat shard]

i don't have time because ill have bunch of projectss this year and i need to apply for master

[white relic]

I'm confused. Do you still have coursework to finish?

[wheat shard]

no its just module projects every module has it own project and the final project to graduate that's all

[white relic]

There are part-time internships that you can do while enrolled but they are rarer in my experience

[wheat shard]

yehh that's why im looking for now but it hard to land an internship that's why i need some suggestion if i should change something my resume

[fringe sphinx]

Have you shared your resume?

[white relic]

#career-advice message

[wheat shard]

yeh

[wheat shard]

yeh i already did

[spark cobalt]

There are no notable Python certificates (in the sense that there are none that Python veterans will see and think that you're well versed in Python). There's a pin specifically for the certificates provided by Python Institute and specifically about how you can advertise your Python skills in better and more impressive ways.

[fringe sphinx]

For starters: The formatting / typography here bugs me, and I'm not exactly sure why. The spacing, indentation, etc are all a bit off. I'd suggest something like https://www.overleaf.com/latex/templates/jakes-resume/syzfjbzwjncs

[wheat shard]

thank you so muchh for your help

[fringe sphinx]

I think for someone with no experience, a one-liner statement of purpose up top might be helpful, especially if you can tailor it to the opportunities. Statements of purpose/objectives are not that helpful, but say something about why you're interested in an internship at their company/industry. @wheat shard

[hearty island]

damn i didn't even clear the first interview screening for the operations biz analyst 1 role for AON, probably bc my resume wasn't tailored. didn't mean to apply for it

[fringe sphinx]

The skills section is very jumbled and hard to read, don't mix so many different types of things together

[fringe sphinx]

There's a lot of repetitive / obvious fluff in the project text: "as part of my academic journey", "while pursuing my degree", "during my university studies", ""as part of my coursework". Be direct and plain. What did you do? What was interesting about it? What technologies did you use?

[fringe sphinx]

I'm quite confident that entire project section was GPT written, fwiw.

[buoyant seal]

Additional thought. People from Java usually migrate to Kotlin. Very small transition to make with previous Java experience accountable

[fringe sphinx]

(my new resume review game: spot the GPT)

[fringe sphinx]

I missed the memo. Went to Python 🙂 but now I'm curious.

[wheat shard]

thank you so muchhh ill try to fix my resume as u said

[spark cobalt]

I think the biggest concern is your projects. You don't really express the complexity of your projects and you pretty much only say the bare minimum of what it does and what technologies you used for it.

It's pretty hard to gauge for anyone how good you are at any given technology when they don't really know or have an idea of how in depth you went with a technology etc.

For example, your Analyzing Stock project doesn't tell an employer really exactly what you did with Python (and saying analyzing stock isn't enough). How did you do it? What techniques did you employ? What results did you get from it?

[fringe sphinx]

Also, if you're graduating in June, why are you looking for internships?

[spark cobalt]

It also seems like all your projects are school projects...? That might also be a red flag considering most CS students do projects outside of their CS course.

Given how the projects are expressed and this, you sell yourself as someone that's done the bare minimum

[wheat shard]

i get the point thank you so much

[sharp orchid]

Skull

[fringe sphinx]

Given how light the resume is, maybe highlight a few interesting classes you took in Education. Just something to show a bit more about yourself.

[wheat shard]

because i don't have any exprience and its hard to get a job without any experience as i always heared

[true harness]

the "Projects" header seems to be formatted incorrectly. the rest are about a centimeter above the horizontal line

[fringe sphinx]

(I shared Jakes resume with them, this needs a whole facelift)

[spark cobalt]

You'd be looking for experience as an internship, and then looking for experience as full time position, when you could just be doing the looking for full time experience

[hearty island]

good call

[wheat shard]

oh i didnt notice at all ._.

[spark cobalt]

You're doubling your work basically by looking for internships.

[hearty island]

i agree with everyone here, go for the jugular and try for full time roles

[wheat shard]

its hard to find both in this country XD imagine applying for me than 50 internship and i got none respond

[white relic]

A year ago that would matter, but tbh at this point that ship has already sailed. Unless you are extremely lucky you are not going to get a last minute internship to cram in before graduation.

[hearty island]

it takes at least 400-500 applications for an internship, from my anecdotal experience lol

[spark cobalt]

In general there are more full time positions than internships.

[delicate bane]

only 50? try more like 500

[hearty island]

^ what rex said

[delicate bane]

oh @hearty island beat me to it

[fringe sphinx]

What country?

[spark cobalt]

He's not in the US, so might be different

[wheat shard]

well i mean alot alott i applied for alott for internships its just appoximate but i always apply for more ill said every day and im from morocco

many of the friends I know secure internships with the assistance of their fathers

[delicate bane]

and youre applying in this country or a different country?

[wheat shard]

so it actually hard here that's why now im trying to apply for smt abroad no i was applying in my country now ill try to apply in different country

[spark cobalt]

A.) It doesn't hurt to at least see what your friends had on their resume. Should give you an idea of how you compare to people with internships, even if through nepotism.
B.) If any of those friends are really close/you know their family well, could also consider asking them for help as well

[wheat shard]

no no it doesn't i always ask them if i can see their resume , and , it hard to say but its hard for sm1 to atell their dad's that one of their friend need an internship i rarely isee sm1 doing it

[hearty island]

what do actuaries even do... and why am i lowkey interested

[spark cobalt]

I suspect it's because people are afraid to try, like you.

[hearty island]

i know a lot of people from my college who didn't get internships because they were too afraid to get rejected

[spark cobalt]

I understand there's probably a lot of social stigma around doing it, but you're closing doors on yourself without giving it at least a chance

[fringe sphinx]

Stigma around what?

[wheat shard]

yep i think so , but ill try my best

its true there always ppl afraid to ask for help either they are afraid that guy will always say im the one who helped u or they are afraid to got rejected

[spark cobalt]

I think stuff like:

• I don't wanna be rude or ask too much from some family that's not mine.

Social stigmas he's reinforcing onto himself that may not be really true

[fringe sphinx]

There’s a difference between ‘networking’ and asking for help. You don’t need to beg for jobs: just talk to people, ask for their career advice and any suggestions, and if they know any opportunities. Very different than begging for a job.

In other words: don’t ‘ask’, just talk and listen. People will offer if they can.

All of my jobs (and clients) are because of someone I knew, except for one (via recruiter)

[spark cobalt]

At the very least you should be looking at your competitions (your friends, colleagues, alumni) resumes and see what areas could be improved.

Networking is very effective, but you still want to at least be on par with your competition.

[hearty island]

AON’s assessment last night murdered my brain cells

harder than UBS for sure

it wasn’t a “behavioral assessment,” it was like a finance test

[white relic]

They probably have a fairly high bar. I'd not be cut out for finance

[hearty island]

they weren't just going to hand out the role like candy haha, got to be some barrier for entry

[hearty island]

damnit, rejected by costco for a biz analyst logistics position

[sudden moth]

hello everyone

I am here to help you

[hearty island]

?

[sudden moth]

oh i am sorry\

but if you want python project, i can help you

[hearty island]

what do workforce management analysts even do? " manage the Workforce Management tool that includes advisor schedules, time off and daily adherence percentages
manage client engagement with advisors at the Wealth Advice Center via the appointment booking tool
provide reporting to our sales partners with information on advisor and platform level key performance indicators
work with key stakeholders to improve business operations and efficiencies
collaborate with the Business Management team to assist our business partners in improving advisor day to day operations
develop strategies to improve servicing levels and the client experience
gain expertise in business management, workforce management, and project management
partner with our sales organization to drive sales" this describes a whole lot of nothing imo

it sounds like a secretary...because it probably is

[regal axle]

@hearty island I know this is a really vague recommendation, but have you considered trying to get jobs not through job application pages? More specifically, try to reach out directly to recruiters and build a relationship directly with them. There are cons to this approach. But also, endlessly bashing your head into the square hole won't necessarily result in different outcomes. At least trying to spend some time with other approaches might be worth your time

[hearty island]

i will try that approach as well

[sudden moth]

hi nice to meet you

[regal axle]

It is more effective with rate of apps out and responses back. But is also more work per application. If that makes sense.

[sudden moth]

so what are you going to do?

[hearty island]

i either get ignored when i try to talk to recruiters, or they just tell me to apply online

[regal axle]

Sounds like a secretary with a few extra steps. Doesn't sound great. Don't like the line gain expertise in business management, workforce management, and project management. Red flag goes off in my head if a job's offering is to "gain expertise"

[sudden moth]

it sounds boring

[hearty island]

probably bc it is

[regal axle]

There are approaches to get around this. But yea ... it depends on how you open. Your goal is to get a job. But it also can't be the only goal (at least not clearly) for why you are talking to them. And that can be time consuming. But as a pro, even if a recruiter can't get you a job, they might be able to help you understand what is missing from your application

[sudden moth]

what do you think

[regal axle]

on what?

[sudden moth]

your topic

[hearty island]

i think you're right, i don't really have much time now.

[sudden moth]

time flies like an arrow

[sudden moth]

and it is most valuable like a gold

[hearty island]

5 months and 2 weeks till may (my graduation) 😦

[regal axle]

What you can do is take the slow approach. Since you don't need a job for a few months, you can just slowly get your name in front of them. Not trying too hard to get recruited. Just make them be familiar with your existence. Lower maintenance

[sudden moth]

what?

[remote herald]

@misty perch

[stone siren]

do you need a paid bot to create remote computer work via telegram?

[hearty island]

???

[gritty rivet]

No, but this is the career discussion channel so try #python-discussion if you have a general Python question

[pallid ferry]

What are your thought guys about working as a data engineer, is it exciting ?

The job is about: data loading, dataset creation, and interfacing data lakes and warehouses. sounds boring right ?

[fringe sphinx]

Not boring. Its about solving complex problems where one side is chaos and the other side is, well, less chaos

Each new problem requires understanding the problem, the constraints, the data, where it came from/what it means/what’s important, and then building or expanding a platform that can process this… but doing it in a sustainable and maintainable and robust way.

[hasty isle]

Hey guys I need some opinions on this. So I'm currently a highschool student, grade 11 (16). i have failed 1 course so I'm eligible to get 31 credits in total if I dont take summer school courses. I was a Pre-IB student for grade 9-10 and I did functions which is a grade 11 course last year in grade 10. I got a 55 on that course. I currently have a grade 12 Advanced functions course planned for 2nd semester. But the main question and decision I'm having difficulty with is. Should I take the risk of switching grade 12 AF for grade 11 functions but risk not getting another credit since I already passed functions last year and then take Grade 12 AF in Summer school???

or do I just take the grade 12 functions the THEN take grade 11 functions in summer school??

[pallid ferry]

Thanks ! I needed to know this 🙂

[white relic]

What kind of topics are covered in "functions"?
This isn't a high school curriculum I'm familiar with

[hasty isle]

You know pre-IB?? Like the program??

International Bacclaruette, also the topics are like trig, logarithms, different functions like exponential, absolute

Now I want to retake it since I can't go to uni with a 55

but Idk if I should do grade 12 first and then take 11 in summer school or the other way around.

I wont get another credit for doing functions again since I already passed it before

[rapid karma]

Heyy y'all,I'm a highschool student in my 12th grade, and I wanna earn some cash by doing some part-time jobs what do you guys think is smtn that I can try doing ?

[white relic]

55 is passing?

[rapid karma]

It's 33 here

[hasty isle]

50% or above is

[rapid karma]

In India I mean

[hasty isle]

Has anyone here attended University of Waterloo?? I need to know if they take into account grade 12 courses mainly or grade 11??

[spark cobalt]

Freelance work for local small businesses could be a start. Generally unlikely for a company to give a dedicated position to high schoolers, part time or not.

[ivory sluice]

your school should have an IB advisor, no?

[rapid karma]

How much can I usually expect to make?

[hasty isle]

I left the IB program already for grade 11 and 12, it was too much and I wanted to take courses I need for University.

I just dont know what to do now I either take functions in 2nd semester and do advanced function in grade 12 or take 12 and then 11 functions in summer school.

[spark cobalt]

I don't know India rates.

[ivory sluice]

it doesn't sound like it makes sense to go backwards in the curriculum

what is "functions"

[hasty isle]

So you suggest I do 11 and then 12 in summer school with the 11 stuff fresh in my head??

[white relic]

Does retaking the course wipe out the original grade from your transcript?

[rapid karma]

Cool and thx a lot for ur support

It helped a ton 🙏

[ivory sluice]

you should really speak to your peers and advisors at your school, your situation sounds very specific to your school

[hasty isle]

Functions covers things like trigonometry, exponential things like the laws, logarithms, as well as all the different graphs

[white relic]

I think that's what I'd call pre-calculus

[hasty isle]

That's pre calculus???

[white relic]

Never heard it called functions before

[hasty isle]

I'm from Canada so

[spark cobalt]

Yeah would say it's still in geometry/algebra

[hasty isle]

yea

[white relic]

Trig identities are precalc stuff 🤷‍♂️

[hasty isle]

Yea we did those

[spark cobalt]

Oh they were in my algebra 2 class in HS

[hasty isle]

We did this

[spark cobalt]

Now that you mention it, I have no clue what pre-calc covered. I think we covered limits and derivatives nearing end of the year but that was about it, idk what anything before that was

[hasty isle]

Not the cofunction tho Idk what that is or the even odd stuff

[hasty isle]

Yea we didnt have that for the functions course

[white relic]

Well anyway I agree with mina, this question seems very specific to your school and possibly region and university you want to apply

[hasty isle]

I wanna apply for waterloo since it has a strong Computer Science education system

[white relic]

You can even message the university admissions department and ask them. It won't hurt your application

[hasty isle]

Wait do Universities look at grade 12 first??

[ivory sluice]

not sure what that question means. universities will look at your whole application

[prime jacinth]

Are applications thru job boards like Indeed viewed by recruiters?

[hearty island]

ideally, that's what they are built for

[smoky quest]

they ought to be

[gritty rivet]

Some of them... But when there are 500+ applications I can't imagine a human will look at each one

[modern thistle]

Moment you are applying anywhere, you are competing with hundreds of other candidates lol. Best way... is to make a good linkedin profile to attract recruiters to come to ya but its not easy for people looking for entry level positions or getting their feet wet in the door

[hearty island]

YES GUYS, I JUST GOT A CALL FROM A RECRUITER FOR AN INTERVIEW!!

i must've applied so long ago omg

nah i actually applied on nov 3

[white relic]

Great! 🎉

[hearty island]

i will call her back immediately when i come home

[modern thistle]

congrats!!!! what position?

[hearty island]

business systems analyst

[modern thistle]

nice! def different field what im used to but im sure u will do well. best of luck

[hearty island]

thanks!!

[hearty island]

damnit, i called her and she didn't respond. probably left the office.

[white relic]

Likely. It's either almost 5 or after 5 everywhere in the US rn

[smoky quest]

it's not even 2pm in the west coast

[harsh river]

you're right, they're probably drunk at the bar already

[white relic]

Oh lol. Added instead of subtracting

[harsh river]

oh. so not anywhere that matters ||EST Gang||

[white relic]

I talk to more Europeans than Californians

[smoky quest]

you mean something east of california?

[sand patio]

can't spell best without est

[gritty rivet]

So during the other half of the year we're just the "bedt"?

[fringe sphinx]

This is the worst half of the year (dark before 5pm)

[balmy spade]

optume 👀 checkmate.

[hearty island]

right yeah it was 4:38 EST in georgia so

[sullen scaffold]

Hello everyone, I just enroll for my classes for next semester and I have only just taken intro to python and my advisor advice me to take PC Hardware class. For anyone who have taken PC Hardware before, is it hard? I just started to learn how to code and idk if that class is advance/difficult. Any insight will help ty 🙂

[pine sleet]

Is this for high school or university?

[sullen scaffold]

University

[pine sleet]

Should be fine. As with most classes it comes down to your willingness to learn and put in effort

[peak halo]

do you have a course description?

[distant urchin]

hi i just completed my cs50 web dev and now i have all the basic web dev knowledge where to go from here? i am also doing some projects by side

[peak halo]

since this is the career discussion channel, I figure you're asking because you eventually want a career in web development. what stage of life are you and what experience do you have?

[distant urchin]

i am doing my degree 2nd year yes i would like to learn more about web dev more like backend stuff and all

for experience i havent made anything for my own till now i just completed the cs50w course required projects and yes a final project which i made by myself i know to make crud apps with django and to add js functionality

[sullen scaffold]

The description is only:
A study of current personal computer hardware including personal computer assembly and upgrading, setup and configuration, and troubleshooting.

• Very little to go off of 😅

[peak halo]

then it probably won't have much to do with programming or Python

is this for CS or IS/IT?

[sullen scaffold]

Software development program!

[true harness]

that doesn't sound very software development related

[sullen scaffold]

I knowww right! but they are requiring it 😤 Like they also made me take fundamentals of networking this semester

[peak halo]

that makes sense though

[true harness]

networking is certainly important. but this other course seems more like IT than swe

[sullen scaffold]

That's mostly for cyber security

[peak halo]

you're saying that networking is? I think it's more broadly applicable than that.

[summer roost]

(much, much more)

[peak halo]

I'll agree with one much. Two is pushing it.

[summer roost]

a basic understanding of networking is pretty crucial to understanding the performance and operation of any distributed system, as well as any client-server system. And nearly every system a software engineer is likely to encounter these days is either a distributed system or a client-server system

[astral ermine]

One much

[summer roost]

I don't think every engineer needs to know "three way handshake" and "CSMA/CD", but knowing TCP vs UDP is pretty important, and so is knowing what sockets and ports are, etc

[pseudo bone]

Hello everyone I had a small question. So me and my manager was having lunch one day along with rest of the team. I don't speak German so I don't understand what my team is talking about so I was on my phone. My manager always wanted me to learn German and gets upset that I didn't learn it till now. Now during that lunch I was on my phone and after my manager asked me if I was able to follow the conversation about "cars". I said no . He said " you were on your phone". I said "yes my girlfriend doesn't like that I don't text her so much during the day so I was just catching up with her". He responded "you were just looking at photos" . That comment made me very uncomfortable because it meant that he was looking at what I was doing on my phone and more importantly looking at my personal stuff. I am thinking of confronting him about this . Am I being over sensitive?

[karmic loom]

I think this is a lesson in being aware of who has line of sight to your phone screen.

Your boss may be less than tactful. Curiosity is to be expected. I don't believe it would be worth pulling him up on it.

[pseudo bone]

I am mainly considering to do it because he has been a dick to me and I want to draw a line and keep him in check

[karmic loom]

Write it down. Sit on it. Wait until you have something that qualifies as substantial.

If you complain about something easily dismissed as insignificant, you'll be tarring yourself as petty.

[fringe lily]

lightning, you'll receive a million different answers about this, the best advice is learn from this experience and share nothing with your managers

they are not your friends. in my mind your manager already has you painted as a sucker so don't be too confrontational it won't scare him/her.

[vapid jay]

Not worth exhausting limited energy on such a matter

[vapid jay]

Anyone here make money from coding?

[nocturne harbor]

Many, presumably. Why do you ask?

[vapid jay]

What about yourself?

[unique pecan]

hi i am a self taught programmer

[near ocean]

Just ask your questions

[nocturne harbor]

Yes, I'm employed as a Python dev, and I do get money from that.

[vapid jay]

I normally code Python/Javascript/C++ projects on replit how do I market them and sell it?

Hey im starting to learn python with an youtube tutorial i got an "exercise" to check in a patient named John Smith whos 20 years old and hes an new patient. Is this good?```python

Patient_Name = 'John Smith'
Patient_Age = '20'
Patient_Status = 'New'

print("Patient Name:",Patient_Name)
print("Patient Age:", Patient_Age)
print("Patient Status:", Patient_Status)```

Ive asked this in #python-community already however i got ignored

[nocturne harbor]

This is off-topic for this channel. See #❓｜how-to-get-help

[vapid jay]

Okay, thanks

[near ocean]

What kind of projects

[vapid jay]

Just random ones

tbh

[near ocean]

Would you pay someone for these projects?

[gritty rivet]

Sounds like you know at least as much as I did when I got my first dev job. The market sucks right now but you could start applying for jobs while you continue learning

[honest perch]

Who wants to help me make an app

[hallow stump]

yeah you did alright man, but please add a space after the double dot so the patient name is not stick with the string

Patient Name:John Smith

after putting space

Patient Name: John Smith

see ?

[white relic]

(This is still off-topic for the channel, but) you are mistaken: print separates arguments with spaces by default

[hallow stump]

but it doesnt work with me for some reason

and sorry for talking about something outside the channel's topic, I just joined the server

[white relic]

It's all good. If you want to follow up on how print works, #python-discussion would work

[hallow stump]

I just revised and found that you were right .. thanks

[civic flint]

I heard contributing to open source projects can be a good idea for refferrals.Any input on that?

[civic flint]

Using django or kivy?

[vapid jay]

Use vscode

[vapid jay]

YouTube isn't good for python in my opinion

[vapid jay]

But yeah it's really good for a beginner

[white relic]

It's great to have some open source contributions on your résumé. It shows initiative and collaboration, among other qualities. I wouldn't say it's good for getting referrals though. I feel like most referrals still come through meatspace networking (conferences, friends, family, classmates, ...)

[civic flint]

Do you think it would be good for landing a job?

[white relic]

Yes. It's also good in general because contributing to open source really does practice those useful skills.

But it's not a substitute for having education or professional experience either.

Ideally you would have a bit of everything: education, experience, personal projects, open source contributions, whatever else

Not having one of those things doesn't mean you can't get a job. But almost everything helps a bit

[unkempt axle]

Is there a way to check if a python code is AI generated?

[fringe sphinx]

Agreeing with trentj: if you’re playing the ‘long game’ (thinking 2+ years ahead), yah… but there’s no shortcuts.

[regal axle]

TLDR. No

There are some signs that might suggest it is. But that might also be how the person codes. If you want to talk more about that #python-discussion

[vapid jay]

What should i use instead then?

[vapid jay]

i personally prefer websites like https://www.w3schools.com/python/default.asp

[white relic]

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[vapid jay]

I did a couple things on this site however even though the code is exactly as the correct answer displayed it still shows me its wrong

[vapid jay]

..

[white relic]

w3schools is generally understood to have low quality

[vapid jay]

im talking bout beginner stuff

[vapid jay]

Do you have any other sites with this concept?

[vapid jay]

for python learning?

Yes

gimme a sec

[vapid jay]

from the official python website https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/index.html

[white relic]

can we take this to #python-discussion please, since it's not about careers

[vapid jay]

lol didnt see

[fringe sphinx]

Around here, a byte of Python and automate the boring stuff are the most common recommendations, along with cs50p (free course), and for YouTube; Corey Schaffer or brocode.

[fringe sphinx]

Wups, and trentj is right. Better discussion in pydis

[vapid jay]

i dont personally like yt for python

[near remnant]

How common/normal is it that you develop a feature, test it and push it to a branch, then merge it to develop/staging and then somehow later you or testers find some bugs? I'm quite anxious about this and had to take 2 xanax pills. Am I overreacting?

[true harness]

relatively normal. finding bugs is the reviewers and testers job. it's kind of embarrassing but you just have to get used to it. it happens to everyone

[near remnant]

ah yeah, life as a junior is tough man..

thanks tho, i try to not get too involved in it with my mental health

[hearty island]

GUYS I FUCKING DID IT

NEXT ROUND FOR UHG!!!

😤😤😤

omg, L3Harris Tech just sent me an interview???

today has been a fucking rollercoaster 😭😭😭

[white relic]

L3Harris probably wants you to be able to get a DoD security clearance

neither a good thing nor a bad thing, but a thing to be aware of

[hearty island]

yep yep

today has been fucking wild

[white relic]

/me realizing I already gave you my spiel on how defense can be a great industry to work in

[buoyant seal]

it depends on your unit testing coverage percentage for your project and used programming language / static typing too.
if u have static typed coverage and unit testing 95%+ (and even integratoin testing is present) and just did changes in unit tested parts in general...
...u have a veery strong chance, that probably there will be not bugs if your change is small enough and u even tested it in dev env
otherwise, anything is possible

Also during production usage, highly likely there will be eventually a case when your code outgrew its current performance capacity and it will break anyway (despite all things above)
or it will encounter some unexpected edge case, nobody expected before.

[hearty island]

hahahaha

i really like L3 Harris's logo

if it comes down to my internship company, UHG, and L3Harris idk which to pick i'm gonna have a tough decision

[buoyant seal]

@near remnant i usually don't care about it as long as I

1. having working unit tests (for 99% of introduced new functionality)
2. someone tested in dev or staging env (may be even me)
3. i wrote sensible enough sql code, which i don't expect to be completely dummy 😅 (dummy SQL code is kind of the most often reason for some shit in backend)

[white relic]

That would be a great problem to have though.

[hearty island]

100%

it's better to have options than nothing at all. plus the more interviews i do, the better i will get.

[white relic]

Something to be aware of, any big company but especially defense contractors can be agonizingly slow at times. It might be weeks and weeks before you get an offer. Depending on how fast UHG is you may want to ask them for more time if you haven't gotten a decision from L3H yet

[hearty island]

🤔 got it. l3harris do be moving kinda fast ngl

[white relic]

I don't know anything about UHG, maybe they're slow too.

[hearty island]

especially since they put me in front of the hiring manager

[white relic]

Well, good luck!

[hearty island]

thank you!

it feels so good to have some interviews after so many rejections

[near remnant]

alright, so since the code has been pretty much pushed to develop/stage env, i shouldn't be worried because it can be fixed, right?

[karmic oar]

I would like to know this feeling 😄 I'm still on the rejection phase

[hearty island]

idk man i still haven't graduated college, i'm graduating may '24 but i did like 5 internships to pad my resume. that and tailoring my resume probably helped.

[hearty island]

you will be fine, just keep the applications up

[buoyant seal]

if you

• covered it with unit tests,
• and even raised dev env locally and tried that it works locally in docker-compose(if u have such practice),
• and you was even code reviewed?
  yeah, the rest of issues are already fine to discover later

if you are one of dedicated devs to this project:

• may be your responsibility to try it works in staging too and it is just not smoking
  if passed all those checkmarks, then it is already not really... a problem 😅

[karmic oar]

sounds impressive! 😄

[white sphinx]

Hi there) is there any data analysts here?)

[hearty island]

thank you! the biggest thing they taught me about job hunting is that it's important to be persistent

[karmic oar]

yep, I will give my best, thank you 😄

[karmic oar]

that's so true :c

[karmic oar]

hi! what do you need? I did a few courses about data analysis, but I've never worked as one 😄

[near remnant]

I did all of those things but realized I might have not written enough unit tests. Well, I at least learn my lesson.

Honestly, whats the worse that could happen? I mean, I find a bug and just fix it, no? Its not in prod, so...

[buoyant seal]

install CI plugin that tells % coverage of a newly added code 😉
We have it for python at Github Actions, it tells exactly for newly added code percentage

[near remnant]

Yeah good idea

[white sphinx]

Uh, at first thanks for answering . I took data analytics course too. We have learnt Postgresql, now we are learning Tableau. I just wanted to ask if there is any book that you will recommend reading ?

about data analysis

[near remnant]

I probably overreact tho, I asked the team leader about what to do in a case like this, just to make sure... I maybe overreact :/

[buoyant seal]

😛 there is such a thing as a time efficient amount of put effort. Sometimes it is easier just to let things go and discover problems in staging/production, hehe.
more time efficient amount of effort to discover exactly problems
makes sure, you did not overengineer it too much too.

[buoyant seal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moSFlvxnbgk so "Let it go"
don't let it occupy your mind for nothing too long

[near remnant]

My issue was that I was dumped into 3 different projects as a junior and I almost died of anxiety and stress, it was hard to find time to even write any tests... I almost quit this week honestly.

Ah anyways, i just let it go 🤣🤣

[near remnant]

Yeah you are right mate

[buoyant seal]

it was hard to find time to even write any tests.
potentially mm not exactly correct may be approach if u have issues with it.
Could u describe your language/stack and how you start to write some features. Like voice steps u do to try writing first code lines?
and what debugging tools u use

[near remnant]

What? Well I think we should let it go actually

[buoyant seal]

shrugs, as u wish

[near remnant]

My brain is too tired now 😭

[pastel thunder]

I was working on a research paper,
I was unable to come up with improvement in baseline, a group of 2 were also working on same thing and they got improvement in baseline before me hence was going to publish paper.
I then was asked that if i can contribute to their paper, i can also be an author.

I worked and got improvement in my area of paper, realised they were doing some things wrong, corrected that too, now i believe i deserve to be atleast to be mentioned as co author with equal contribution instead of third author, what to do?
what to say to my supervisor? or should i say nothing? i want to publish some more papers with him.

I think my contribution are equal to the first two author and might even be higher than him.

[karmic oar]

are you also interested in maching learning? 😄 I heard good opinions about those two: Hands-on Machine Learning with Python and TensorFlow and Introduction to Machine Learning with Python

[white sphinx]

My goal is to become data scientist tbh

[white sphinx]

thank you so much

[karmic oar]

I think the best way is to start a notebook on kaggle 😄 and read and try to implement that knowledge into sth practical

[white sphinx]

thanks for advice I will try my best

[karmic oar]

I hope I was helpful 😄 but you know, I'm not sure if it's good to take advice from someone unemployed xD

[white sphinx]

hahaha, its better than nothing i guess

[hearty island]

damn i just got another call from that recruiter who called me yesterday

[harsh river]

did you answer?

[hearty island]

no i'm in class rn, but she texted me. i'm going to text her back rn.

[oak fjord]

guyss'

any source to get internship

dscd

[hearty island]

source?

[regal axle]

What country do you live in? If America https://github.com/SimplifyJobs/Summer2024-Internships
I don't know if this list specifically is any good. But I used the other one that the maintainer group has made and that is how I got my internship

[hearty island]

scheduled the interview for 8 AM before i go to school

[regal axle]

Nice! Good luck 👍

[hearty island]

thank you!

[willow quartz]

https://paste.pythondiscord.com/HZZQ
https://paste.pythondiscord.com/WRXQ
anyone can help, the question is to " Encrypt all messages between clients and server using [AES,CBC mode].
At this stage, client will send it’s name and key as a plaintext
Both parties which the client and the server should be able to show both the encrypted and decrypted messages on the screen."

[hearty island]

wrong spot, try #cybersecurity maybe?

[gritty rivet]

https://joinhandshake.com/

[split citrus]

Do you guys think intenship experience trumps multiple good projects on resume/

[smoky quest]

It's comparing apples to oranges

employers don't care that you have had an internship for the sake of it. They care about what you did with it and the demonstrated skills

[mighty cosmos]

How hard is it to find an entry level job if you know Python and Java

[smoky quest]

It depends on your resume, education, experience, skills, locations, aspirations, communication, etc.
Can you expand on where you are in these dimensions?

[mighty cosmos]

I have a bachelors degree in finance, worked in sales the past 4 years located in Michigan but would like to work remotely

[smoky quest]

• Remote for entry level is more rare to find since they require more hand holding
• It will depend a lot on your skills and how they compare to the average applicant, who has a bachelor in CS, internships, and awesome projects

[mighty cosmos]

How do I come up with an awesome project?

[gritty rivet]

An awesome project demonstrates all the skills that some specific employer is looking for in some specific role. So the answer depends a lot on your goals and interests

[smoky quest]

You can make projects that are interesting to you, or close to what the target role would be involved in.

You can also look at https://roadmap.sh for examples of skills that employers would look for

[hearty island]

really well-paid field from what i'm seeing so far

i'm going to have a tough decision to make if i get the role

[white relic]

I was paid reasonably well. Not top but over median salary for comparable roles.

[hearty island]

my ex boss at my current internship company worked at lockheed martin

[white relic]

I was a computer engineering major and that was a while back. I'm not up to date.

[hearty island]

ah

[hearty island]

quick question, is LinkedIn acting funky for you? i can't see jobs past like the eighth page anymore. i thought for a second it was my chrome extension filtering out easy apply jobs, but now it just won't show anything even with the chrome extension uninstalled

maybe my chrome needs an update

[white relic]

Might be a site issue. I'm waiting on a confirmation email to log in

[hearty island]

yeah i wanna see if it's just me

[winged pulsar]

hey is there a discussion board for talking about cs and college

[hearty island]

what do you want to ask specifically?

[winged pulsar]

just someone to talk to about struggling in cs lmao

[summer roost]

the r/csMajors subreddit perhaps

[fringe sphinx]

Oh. My knowledge and experience is that defense is everything but we’ll paid. But perhaps it’s j@proved over the years

[true harness]

off topic channels works well too. imo, the csmajors reddit is pretty 😬 most of the time

[hearty island]

hmmm well let’s see if i can get the role first

[fringe sphinx]

But fwiw, it was one of my first jobs and an incredibly valuable experience. Man was there a lot of documentation and process

[hearty island]

i’m pretty excited

[slim mauve]

Hi

[tropic cargo]

Hi everyone just wnat to ask i am going to learn python before 2024 and my plan is to deep div in back-end with devops and want to learn these stacks for 2024 , my question is is these stacks are good for learning in 2024 according to market ?

[civic flint]

Thankyou for the advice. I am already completing my degree in IT and building a few projects using REACT. Thats why i want to contribute to open source. Iknow it will take a while though to actually land one.

[gritty rivet]

The best way to understand what skills people are hiring for is to look at the job listings in your country/city

[hearty island]

guys good news

i got progressed to the second round for the city of atlanta!!

[signal hatch]

Guys, tell me about the job market for developers in Canada, I'm in infrastructure and a programmer student in Python and business intelligence with SQL and Power BI.

[light sequoia]

guys can you tell me what should i learn in front-end dev?

this are the programming language, library and framework, I know
"html,css,js,react,axios,tailwindcss,bootstrap,vite"

can you tell me what should i learn after react?

also can you tell me in order how should i learn this language after react, options:redux,next.js,firebase,typescript,jast,astro

what other things should i know to land a job

~thank you

[sharp prairie]

hello

[finite crypt]

question: i am a good programer if i wrote tetris withouth looking at any source code and only at how the game works? (impostor sindrome is stalking me 😳 )

[karmic oar]

I think being a good programmer is more about code quality, then research for the best solution 😄 if your code works and if your code doesn't smell, then you good 😄 3rd important thing are tests. I would think about good programmer in those 3 categories, a solution doesn't have to be the best solution

[fringe sphinx]

Imposter syndrome stalks all of us. Building a Tetris game is not easy and you should feel great about it!

[karmic oar]

you can check out that: https://roadmap.sh/frontend, but I would bet on some kind of project using what you already know, rather than learning another thing

[regal axle]

This isn't enough for a binary response. But also, there isn't a binary response to this question ever. That being said, yes, you are a good programer. Idk that mok3's metrics of what makes you good, are good. But that doesn't matter because what is important is that the metrics for this random arbitrary thing called "good" is different for everyone.
The important thing, is if you can solve the problems you want to solve. And if you are making progress. Being able to make Tetris puts you above a lot of programmers; but there will always be something those programmers can do better than you. And that is fine. Avoiding impostor syndrome is almost impossible. The best option, is to try to focus only on comparing yourself to yourself. And avoid thinking about what other people can do (because the guy who is writing the most amazing data science logic you have ever seen might have no idea how to make a game like tetris)

[finite crypt]

my code works very well and has no bugs but it feels like ducktaped togheter because it is not object orientated code and i rewrite multiple lines of code to implement new functions

[near ocean]

Without trying to be rude, tetris is one of those games you are asked to develop in your first or second year of uni
And being a cs graduate, i dont think the average person who just graduated or is still in school is a good programmer

[finite crypt]

Ofc , but im not in uni , im a "self taught"

[near ocean]

The same applies

[finite crypt]

and in uni is the code done without knowing the 'original source code' entirely?

like some of the logic is kinda complicated

[near ocean]

Yes? You dont get source code, you are given certain parameters/criteria
If youre trying to score yourself out of one project (which you shouldnt) its not that high of a score

Build more things then you wont even have to ask, you'll know how good you are yourself

[gritty rivet]

Tell you what? If you want to know about it in general, check out the job listings and other data on sites like Indeed, LinkedIn, Glassdoor, etc.

[harsh hatch]

any project idea?
I know about web development, AI things, etc

[paper thunder]

hello everyone, who is learning python and django, let's connect pls

[gritty rivet]

!kindling

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[gritty rivet]

If you don't know, there is a dedicated Django Discord server.

[paper thunder]

sorry, did not know for sure. thanks for information sir

[south hazel]

Fullstack?

[harsh hatch]

yes, whatever

[south hazel]

You use python in backend?

[fringe sphinx]

https://nedbatchelder.com/blog/202011/mad_libs.html perhaps (it's on the kindling link)

[south hazel]

I have seen nedbat guy in this server maybe

[harsh hatch]

i want to

[south hazel]

Django or flask

[fringe sphinx]

Better question for #python-discussion , especially if you could provide contxt.

[south hazel]

I was asking him generally

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I'm saying, this channel is #career-advice

[hearty island]

strange interview tho, ngl. the recruiter called me, she asked how i was doing and if i was interested in the role still. i said yeah, and she was like well the hiring manager is available on Tuesday at 10:30. and she didn't ask any questions of me or anything. am i getting fucked with or something? they sent me a microsoft teams link and everything

[fringe sphinx]

Why the question? Recruiters aren't important, the hiring manager is the only one who matters.

[hearty island]

i guess so, i'm just used to talking to the recruiters and them asking me questions first. maybe CoA does things differently

[modern thistle]

recruiters just do introduction prob

[fringe sphinx]

Usually the recruiter is just making sure you're a fit so as to not waste anyones time. This is a good sign, since it means (to me) that someone looked at you and thought: "they're a fit, hiring manager should talk to them"

[hearty island]

i mean l3harris did the same thing, they're putting me in front of the hiring manager immediately

[hearty island]

word, maybe that means something good is coming!! idk if cushy government work is really my thing, but it could be good

[still saddle]

hi

can sm1 help me with building my pc, like choosing it's specs and stuff
productivity pc build under ₹50,000 with argb and dedi gpu

[hearty island]

try an off topic channel, i think they can help

[fringe sphinx]

There's also https://discord.gg/buildapc

[pure copper]

Hello

[modern thistle]

sup

[pure copper]

Are you guys hiring for a python developer

[modern thistle]

Im pretty new to this channel but i dont think this is a channel for any of that lol. you need to be hitting linkedin or something for those. This is just purely channel for discussions and advices for careers.

[pure copper]

Okay

[turbid bobcat]

I'm on 75 of the leetcode 150 interview essentials

76*

I'm gonna get to a point where I can speedrun mediums, hopefully that's enough

[latent valve]

Hello I was wondering what studies do I need to become a software engineer?

[white relic]

It's good to be able to do leetcode stuff because they are used for interviewing, but there are most likely more productive things you could do with your time than learning to speedrun them

[white relic]

Where are you now in your education?

[turbid bobcat]

I'm not gonna get a job if I can't do them tho

[latent valve]

I'm in italian system so not clear on how to call it in english

@white relic sophmore

[white relic]

there are a lot of things you can do to improve your chances of getting a job. Just a suggestion, don't focus too much on leetcode. Your resume, interpersonal behavior in an interview, personal projects, university projects and grades, networking, internships, all matter.

[turbid bobcat]

I got everything covered, just need to get confy with the leetcodes, otherwise I'll get interviews but get rejected on the leetcode phase

[white relic]

It's satisfying to do leetcode problems because they are relatively quick and it's easy to measure your progress but those other, less quantifiable aspects are just as even more important

[white relic]

secondary/high school?

[latent valve]

Ye

[white relic]

(the freshman/sophomore/junior/senior thing is used in universities too)

[latent valve]

Secondary ig I'm 16

[white relic]

anyway, the path of least resistance with the best opportunity is going to be to go to university and get a bachelor's degree in CS or a closely related discipline

[latent valve]

What is cs?

[white relic]

computer science

[latent valve]

Can I go to CS University with professional school secondary?

[white relic]

that sounds like a question you'd need to ask a teacher or advisor at your school who is familiar with the local system.

[turbid bobcat]

Uhm, looks similar to the Portuguese system tho, let me check

[latent valve]

Do I need to study something specific to get acces to CS unuversity?

[white relic]

In the USA people don't specialize in high school (secondary school). you can apply to whatever university regardless of what you did in high school. (obviously there's no guarantee of getting in, but there's no systematic barriers)

[latent valve]

Ok

[turbid bobcat]

In PT you can specialize in high school but you need to pass the designated national exams for the BSc you are applying to.

I actually did arts but got into Physics BSc via math and physics exams

[latent valve]

Okk

[hidden bloom]

i have an in person assesemtn centre and am preparing a presentation for it. here is my plan: (any advice)? the question im answering in the third slide is numbered at the top of the ss: (THIS IS A PLAN ALLOW ME)

[white relic]

I know some systems are really aggressive about making kids specialize. I'm sure it's my Americentric bias but it seems hard on kids to have to pick a specialization at 15 when you don't really have any clue what's out there

[hidden bloom]

Am I answering this question wrong – its almost as if I am answering “why do u want to work for this company” instead of what do you hope to get out of it?”
technically isn't there no wrong approach? and i do want to work for a 'sustainable' company no matter how cringey it sounds
and i dont want to give the obvoius answer of 'i want money, i want hands on experience, i want to learn x y z ' ygm?
i want to make it rlly specific / niche / to their company and what im interested in / opinons i hold myself - dont want it to be generic..

[white relic]

that said, I picked my college at 13 so I'm not one to speak 🤷‍♂️

[hidden bloom]

my british bredrin

[latent valve]

Bruh what u picked?

[true harness]

how did you manage that 👀

[white relic]

I mean I applied to and got in to a few but the one I liked at 13 was the one I ended up going to.

[true harness]

oh. your ~dream school~

[white relic]

basically

[white relic]

Small university in Texas. Not a secret but I don't feel like naming it here.

[turbid bobcat]

Uhm. I do recall I wasn't the only one having to do an extra year to change specialty. So there is something to be said about that for sure

[white relic]

This seems like a reasonably focused answer to me. You could certainly say something about your 5-year or 10-year career plan and how you expect the company to figure along the way, but I don't think focusing on making a contribution to sustainability, ethics, being a part of something larger, etc. is a bad answer at all

[hidden bloom]

kk good thanks

[white relic]

I do think you have notes here for quite a medium to long essay. What word count do they want?

[hidden bloom]

i only have 5 mins and 2 other questions to answer..

cant be too long this is a presentation bro in person power point presentation - in person assesemntt centre (my first one for a real.. professional job!!)

thx btw i owe u alot with all ur advice i probably wouldnt have gotten to this stage whatsoever

[white relic]

ah ok

[hidden bloom]

two other questions: 2. What skills will you bring to …...? , 1. Tell us a little bit about yourself (these will be slide 1 / 2) in powerpoint - planning on having them shorter than this third slide ofc and the first one / 2nd will include some jokes be less serious

[white relic]

yeah, under those constraints I don't think you'll get to mention everything you have notes on. Three or four bullet points (max) and a nice background graphic

[white relic]

this is an intense application process

[hidden bloom]

its assessmetn centre 8am to 3 pm

lol just for an industrial placement aka .. not even a graduate role LMAO, i did: cv, oa, vid interview, now this - they all are rlly intensive time consuming icl this shit is competitive..

[white relic]

It sounds like you have a good plan. I hope it works out!

[true harness]

I'm genuinely shook. I would have given up like 3 essays ago

[hidden bloom]

im desperate and stubborn lol

i applied to like 60 places in like 2 weeks i did nothing but that - and even if i dont get this - i shall not be discouraged!!

[random pagoda]

where can I see speed comparison of python as a chart

[lucid stag]

any one know selenium?

[white relic]

This channel is about careers. If you have a more general Python question, try asking in #python-discussion

[turbid bobcat]

Why do external recruiters always hide the name of the company they are hiring for ? Is it some sort of a red flag or is there a rationale for it ?

[near ocean]

It is so you cant go around them and book an interview directly

[turbid bobcat]

Ok makes sense, thank you.

Is there any disadvantage for me to go through them ? What are the main pitfalls ?

[near ocean]

If you know where you want to apply then apply directly
Otherwise you dont really have a choice, they control the majority of the job ads, its their job to

[latent valve]

@white relic thx thx for helping me with that stuff , changed school overnight☠️

[turbid bobcat]

I sometimes get approached and am wondering if it's worth it. I'm also thinking it might be a good strat to find a job in a foreign city since I'm not as familiar with the local market.

[smoky quest]

I consider them as another source of leads. Doesn't hurt to look at it.

[fringe sphinx]

The Bay Area is interesting, everyone is in tech there; every social activity you can think of turns into a networking event. Every bar, gym, park, whatever is a chance to meet people. Heck, I’ve networked while walking a dog there (I was visiting, but spent a lot of time in area): just find things to do and opportunities will present themselves

[smoky quest]

Oh if they are in the bay area, then there are tons of jobs that do open up to them because of RTO

[fringe sphinx]

(iirc op was moving to Bay Area)

NYC jobs are also opening up because of RTO

[gritty rivet]

Parasite recruiters are a necessary evil sometimes. Be suspicious of everything they say because many will lie. They have an incentive to get you hired, but the less scrupulous ones don't care if you actually want the job they get you hired for. I wouldn't say never deal with these people because that's not always realistic, but do your homework before quitting a job or anything based on their word

[gritty rivet]

RTO means something other then Recovery Time Objective, or what's the connection?

[true harness]

return to office

[gritty rivet]

Eww, gross

[true harness]

that's why jobs are opening up 😩

[turbid bobcat]

ok, I'll go for it then, thank you

[turbid bobcat]

that's super interesting, but I'm not in the bay area rn, the plan is to get an offer first, possibly do some contract work while waiting for h1b

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I just meant once you arrive

[turbid bobcat]

I see. I guess I can get a feel for them during the first call. Which I guess is the purpose of the first call anyway, goes both ways

[cobalt moat]

how do i get an unofficial transcript?

[gritty rivet]

Print it out from a website usually

[cobalt moat]

i cant find it

[gritty rivet]

Then you need to contact the school

[white relic]

depends on the institution. mine had a form to fill out