career-advice

[turbid bobcat]

You're making me feel confident here.

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, just remember you have two different obstacles: the screen and the interview.

[turbid bobcat]

I actually feel reasonably confident for the interview. Especially if I get to prepare leetcode (which I will). I've gotten to the late stage for an SF company last month. Senior/staff position too. I strongly believe that the only reason I didn't land was that I have 2 YOE.

My worry now is that I start sending CVs and I don't hear back due to the volume of applications that those companies get. And me being in Europe without US work permit, only makes it harder.

I'm just gonna need to learn to manage my anxiety.

[hearty island]

i need to do the same thing. i find exercise helps

[turbid bobcat]

I'm thinking of making a daily routine that starts with some running.

[hearty island]

nice, i do a lot of shadowboxing. helps to burn a lot of tension away

[vapid jay]

Also may I ask two extra questions?
1)Do you prefer short single page resumes or longer ones? 2)Better clean or more artistic?

1. I summorize everything in one page and then place links for portfolio that nobody seems to see. I was often pointed out on why it was so short, and so that may be a problem
2. I found that's better having a clear graphic, since often stuff gets printed in black and white and hanged on by hand

[fringe sphinx]

Single page 100%. However, I am in the US. We don't read cover pages either. Different countries have different conventions... some CVs are "long form", especially for academics.

And graphics/artistics... I find it unnecessary and unhelpful

[hearty island]

i wonder if companies can check how many times you've logged in to see your hiring status

[white relic]

Even if they can, exactly 0 people care

[hearty island]

true

[regal axle]

Please let me know what you think of this resume. I am planning to apply for PhD in AI/CV with this. Let me know what I should change or improve on.

Obviously my name is not Joshie and there will be more things besides my github. But I am not giving you my personal info :)

Not sure if I should even bother adding at the top my "research interests". Because that is repeat info that will show up in much greater detail in my SoP

[turbid bobcat]

I didn't know you could apply to PhD without MSc. That's nice to know

[regal axle]

You can in the US. Some places require it. But most do not. Although, it can be harder to get in without a MS. But ... eh. It just depends.

[turbid bobcat]

Interesting, I might try my luck. I have an incomplete MSc, just need to finish the dissertation but no time for it

[pliant wasp]

guys i'm looking to get a job in qa testing and also know web development. Have made quite a few automation projects with selenium and done some freelance projects as well. I dont have a degree yet and live in a third world country. Do you think its possible i could get a job remote job?

[regal axle]

See, this puts you a slightly worse position than I am in. Still possible but it depends on the research experience you have. You can always spin it as, I want to just get to the real purpose of this degree, the PhD and less so about the "I don't have time for my dissertation." But I am also not an expert in this since I am trying to get in and not someone from the approval teams

[hearty island]

not having a degree is quite an obstacle, but people have gotten jobs despite that

[pliant wasp]

I was doing pretty well on fiverr but they removed buyer requests and now its become significantly harder to find a project:/

[pliant wasp]

gotcha! Do you have any experience with qa testing?

[hearty island]

nah, i'm more of a project management/business analysis guy

[pliant wasp]

i see, is there much programming involved in your work?

[hearty island]

depends on the role/company really. the current internship i'm doing i don't really code at all

[turbid bobcat]

If someone asks I'll be honest, I don't have time for it. The main issue is that the degree itself is somewhat unrelated to my career as an ML Engineer. So my free time is better spent upskilling in ML rather than writing a somewhat unrelated dissertation.

[pliant wasp]

is it kinda similar to being a data analyst?

[hearty island]

sort of like that, yeah

[pliant wasp]

nicee, what skills would you recommend i learn if maybe i want switch in the future?

[regal axle]

Not 100% true. But it depends on what your goals are. A degree has more value than the things you learn from it. There is this really scary thing called HR. And they won't let you get a title just because you didn't get a degree. But you will only run into that problem if you have goals that push into a direction that this is relevant to. Oh, and a degree level tends to be more important than the degree focus. So .... yea, it is still related

[hearty island]

if you wanna go project management, i'd recommend getting a cert in project management. biz analyst i would just recommend being good at excel, python, sql. having interesting side projects

in fact being a biz analyst is a good way to secure a project management job later on in the future

[turbid bobcat]

A company that values a degree more than the skills, is a company I won't work for.

[regal axle]

So we all say. And we all want. But bureaucracy is a bitch. And it isn't that simple

[pliant wasp]

nicee, sounds interesting. i'm already good at excel and python and learning sql lol. Do you guys not use vb anymore?

[turbid bobcat]

Idk, to be honest, no one has ever asked me about my degree.

[true harness]

it's not even about bureaucracy. the average person with no degree is a worse candidate than the average person with a degree. there are exceptions, but they are exceptional

[pliant wasp]

or maybe im confusing it with database management lol

[turbid bobcat]

I'm sure there's nuance to your statement. Context matters, so do all the other accomplishments.

[hearty island]

not at my current company

[regal axle]

Now that you are here @true harness, mind having a look at this?

[true harness]

sure, but I'm talking about averages. someone that's been through a degree program has generally learned the curriculum, whereas for someone without a degree, there's no easy way to verify the skills

[pliant wasp]

gotcha. you got any yt videos where i can learn more about the field?

[turbid bobcat]

I have completed all my coursework and presented my thesis in a workshop, got featured in two international conferences. But I haven't finished the degree

[regal axle]

Also commitment. If you learned everything you can from a degree but then don't finish the last step to get the degree, it doesn't reflect well on you as a person. Even if you have valid reasons. People like to see others who finish things they start

[true harness]

I don't know about PhD applications, so I don't think I can help much

[regal axle]

That is fine; but just from the perspective of it being a resume, you can still guage it based on that

[true harness]

sure, you might be exceptional. on average, people are not

[hearty island]

i'd just recommend general sql/excel videos honestly if you want to learn biz analysis skills + being in this server will help too

[pliant wasp]

gotcha, thanks bro. is it possible you could review my resume and give tips to improve?

[turbid bobcat]

I understand.

[hearty island]

sure i might have to hop soon for lunch but if you post it in the chat people will help

[pliant wasp]

ight thanks bro!

[turbid bobcat]

I don't know, maybe I can finish it in the US (if I manage to land a job). Don't know how hard it would be to transfer the credits, or how expensive it would be to enroll.

[hearty island]

52 jobs applied to this friday, saturday, sunday. rejected from mercedes-benz and best buy with 21 more jobs that i’ll be applying to today

we are on the grind lmaoo

[turbid bobcat]

The reasons for me not finishing that degree in the first place are extremely complex, and attributing it to me being "flawed as a person" is very inappropriate in my opinion. I personally refrain from thinking in such a black and white way. I think it's best to judge things in context.

[pliant wasp]

yope bro sent a private dm lol

[regal axle]

I don't doubt you. I am confident you have valid reasons for not being able to finish the degree. But you will also have to explain those reasons every time it comes up. And you might get lucky and it never comes up. But you might get unlucky and have to explain it a lot. Or worse, you will not be given the chance to explain it. Ideally, we work with and for people who care about the person and the quality of work being produced. But you will inevitably run into people who mainly focus on the numbers. And the number shows that you don't have X degree. And maybe you don't care because it saves you the trouble of having to deal with such a shallow person.
But it isn't always about being shallow. It is sometimes just faster and easier to be this way. I think it is appropriate for me to mention a mentality that you might run into as something for you to think about and not as something for you to stress about.

[fringe sphinx]

Again, remember they’re talking about averages. I know many people without a degree who are exceptional, and many people with a degree who… aren’t.

Doesn’t make it less true that: non degree holders face an uphill battle, and -this- job market is particularly challenging

[turbid bobcat]

I do have a BSc tho

[fringe sphinx]

Then what are we talking about?

[turbid bobcat]

Me not finishing my dissertation to get the MSc, but ofc the degree stuff in general

[fringe sphinx]

Hey, I didn’t finish my PhD thesis either

[regal axle]

My whole original point was that all of this only matters if you have specific goals that will require you to have a MSc. If you don't have those goals, than non of this matters because you don't need the degree. But it is also potentially closing a door or at least making it harder to open that door.

[regal axle]

@fringe sphinx as a person who got into a PhD program; tell me what you think? Looking for any type of advice on this.

[fringe sphinx]

It was a life goal of mine but I didn’t need it for anything, I had been working for 10 years, had a baby in the way, and was starting a company… but: the main reason I left it ABD was I just didn’t really connect with my advisor (and my chosen dissertation/thesis topic) and it felt like an aimless pointless effort.

My advice would be: chose your advisor very carefully and talk to many grad students

There are a number of grad students around this discord who I hope will comment too

[regal axle]

... Yes, thank you. But I meant about the resume specifically. But yes, I have been trying to be carful with that

[turbid bobcat]

I understand where you are coming from, and I appreciate it because ofc it helps me.

Tbh this is always gonna be a sensitive subject for me. I should just find a way to finish it just because of that.

[fringe sphinx]

I genuinely have no idea Re: applying to a PhD program. I did look and just have no first hand knowledge to recommend something

[regal axle]

Fair. I appreciate the honesty over just blindly trying to answer 👍

[fringe sphinx]

In my case, I had earned my masters and -then- pursued a PhD… and kept my same advisor (mistake). The application process was straightforward since they knew me.

[regal axle]

Yea that makes sense. I had that opportunity to stay at my undergrad and it would have been very easy to get in. But I despised the department so I knew that I would rather not get a degree over working with the people at the school. (Oh and also the other big thing being that non of the professors are actually doing research in my interest)

[turbid bobcat]

I know someone who is doing a company sponsored PhD. It looks perfect to me, research but with all the benefits from the industry.

[fringe sphinx]

I did my masters part time/evening. That was a good way to knock off much of the coursework while getting my real world experience

[regal axle]

It is something I would love to happen. And is one of my backups. But that would require me to be in a company that has that route. And if I don't get into any of the schools I want in this round, I might try to work in this direction

[fringe sphinx]

Took longer of course, 3-4 years iirc, but was nice to earn it separate from PhD (especially given the high attrition rates of PhD programs)

[regal axle]

Yea. I learned the most outside of my degree. Most of what I know came from everything but my degree. Not to say I learned nothing of course.

[fringe sphinx]

I’ll definitely say graduate school was far better than undergrad for learning. I loved nearly every class.

[regal axle]

That is good to hear

[pliant wasp]

guys how much difference you think it makes if you get a degree from a university which is known to be "easy" instead of the one which is more respected and known to be tough?

[pine sleet]

I don't think it matters too much, your employer might not even know the reputation of the school. A CS degree is a CS degree and is better than no degree at all

The differences will lie mostly in stuff like oppurtunities (networking, jobs, internships, meeting people, that sort of thing)

[summer roost]

And one with a reputation for being easy will be one where you learn less, most likely, so you might get less from your degree than others would

[pine sleet]

You probably hear this a lot, but college is what you make of it. You're paying for it, maximize the gains that you get from it

[fringe sphinx]

Curious about your experience, but from my seats (small tech) I just don’t see top (Stanford, mit, etc) school resumes. To me, everything else is the same: it’s about the candidate. One of my best engineers went to a no name small New England state college.

[summer roost]

I agree that the reputation of a college names little difference. The biggest difference from big name unis are the people you're rubbing elbows with, the companies that target the school for hiring, etc.

But I do think that a uni with a reputation for being easy is different than a uni without a reputation for being top tier. "Easy" triggers some red flags for me in a way that "no name and small" doesn't

[true harness]

are such reputations common? even as a uni student i have no idea what schools would be considered easy, but i have a decent idea what "top" schools are

[fringe sphinx]

Good point, yah: I translated op’s “respect” point to refer solely to hiring managers impression.

[summer roost]

I know a small handful... But no, not common. It's not a reputation a uni wants to have, because "easy" essentially means that the education quality is lower

[pliant wasp]

i live in a third world country and there's a university where apparently many dont study at all but are still able to secure a good gpa

[true harness]

that's in the US too 😩. grade inflation goes hard

[pliant wasp]

damn

[fringe sphinx]

I was asked literally once about my college gpa, by a startup ceo who wasn’t impressed by my answer but hired me anyway.

But I gather in this era of ATS systems/recruiting automation, it may be asked more often

[summer roost]

You might want to ask employed people in your country specifically what a degree from that uni is worth. They'll be able to give a more informed answer than our generalities

The answers to these questions can sometimes differ a lot from one country to another. My answers are informed by what I know best, which is US, UK, and EU

[true harness]

usually the only time i see gpa explicitly asked is if they have a cutoff, like "must have 2.0" or "must have 2.5" or something. or it's some super bro fintech/quant firm and they want to know all your scores, SAT, GRE, etc

[fringe sphinx]

(And my experience is only US)

[pliant wasp]

Is your university well reputed? From what ive heard they hire anyone with a passing gpa from a "hard" university but when i looked at the stats, the easy one is in the top three for most students hired as well lmao

[fringe sphinx]

That’s not my experience, or what I’ve heard from others. There are two hurdles: screen and interview. Elite schools (very few) might get you past the screen, but it’s equal footing for the interview.

[pliant wasp]

but we can argue that the easy one has more students as well(i think)

[fringe sphinx]

But, outside of elite, many screens are OA driven and your school matters not.

[pliant wasp]

yea makes sense

[fringe sphinx]

(Someone correct me if they disagree)

[mighty sequoia]

hi

[muted bridge]

i've personally not been able to apply to several positions because they ask for college transcripts

[true harness]

you don't even have an unofficial one?

[fringe sphinx]

But to repeat what godlygeek said: country/locale matters. Im in the US, and my experience / knowledge doesn’t translate to other countries

[mighty sequoia]

when i try to downlowd a pyaudio
returns an error × Getting requirements to build wheel did not run successfully.
│ exit code: 1
╰─> See above for output.

[regal axle]

#❓｜how-to-get-help

[mighty sequoia]

sorry

[pliant wasp]

dats true. How would you think it'd play out if someone from either university were to apply for a company in the US?

[summer roost]

US hiring managers would be unlikely to know the reputation of either university, honestly

[pliant wasp]

yea thats what ive heard too

[cerulean parcel]

Greetings Everyone, I would like your advice, I have a bachelor's degree in Clinical Pharmacy and i wanted to learn some data analytics using python and SQL I have already learnt the basics of Python and SQL through CS50P and CS50SQL. What fields are the most accessible for my skillset that can allow remote work from Egypt in my case.

[hearty island]

just applied to the dtcc

[smoky quest]

It's a good thing we are on CS related server 🙂

And yes, having to work on a gray/black market does not scream career opportunities, rather short ones

I will also strongly object to the concept of ideologies pushed by universities and colleges to make people study for the sake of it. That's just a conspiracy theory.
The root is very simple: people with more education and higher skills will fare better, especially in a high tech field.
There is also value in being more educated 🙂

[fringe sphinx]

I didn’t see the original message, but what kind of ideologies would creep into CS? Is it the deep state DSAers vs the bots are coming for our jerbs? (My attempt at Cs humor)

[hearty island]

smh, i hate these jobs asking for my supervisor's phone number, especially bc i don't have it

another one bites the dust ig

[fringe sphinx]

Ah, I always figure higher education is too disorganized to actually have intentional bias.

[smoky quest]

there isn't a deep cabal with companies to organize a grand college mafia.

That's a 3rd world country issue. In first world countries, education is funded by taxes

[hearty island]

fuck it, i applied anyways, and just said to contact my references later when i give my permission

[vapid jay]

It's a matter of probability anyway, the more you send, the more possibility to get a job you have

[hearty island]

exactly

[hearty island]

"5+ years of related professional experience. All relevant experience including work, education, transferable skills, and military experience will be considered.
Advanced skill to conduct Data analysis using SQL with any RDBMS (SQL Server, Oracle, Postgres, Teradata etc.)
Advanced skills in Microsoft Excel, Power Query
Advanced collaborative, interpersonal, oral and written communication skills and demonstrated ability to develop accurate and appropriate communications.
Advanced ability to communicate to all levels of management.
Advanced research, analytical and problem solving skills.
Strong ability to make decisions based on analysis and business needs.
Advanced ability to bring a different perspective to situations and challenge the status quo.
Proven ability to work independently with guidance in only the most complex situations." nah that's too much

[smoky quest]

aren't you a fresher?

[hearty island]

yeah i clicked the wrong role and yes

my max range of experience that i apply to is like 2

anything more is pushing it really

[smoky quest]

yeah, but soon enough you will get there

[hearty island]

thanks

[balmy spade]

That a lot of words to say "Self driven with experience".

[hearty island]

agreed, recruiters are wild nowadays

[balmy spade]

I've read too many job descriptions this month that have ended with me say "Right... I guess I'll find out what this is about when you call" just before submitting a resume.

[smoky quest]

I would call out their mention of communicating to all levels and the accurate and appropriate communication. Tailoring to your audience is not something natural to most

[hearty island]

gonna apply to 10 more jobs today

https://tenor.com/view/out-of-breath-spongebob-meme-gif-11589002

my mom said at the rate i'm going chances are i get more than one acceptance at once and that i'll have to choose between roles

[buoyant seal]

This is a cool video, where main characters apply to become cheerladers.
Song - Fired Up from disney original series Zombies 😊 (kind of cool from motivational point)
||P.S. it has part 2, but it is too close to movie end||

[hearty island]

huh

[hearty island]

ah i see

[dreamy spade]

You guys have Discord installed on your Work laptop?

[sick ginkgo]

I install it on every device I use lol

[hearty island]

work laptop??? nah fam

they can track everything you download and do

[marsh wind]

If I have rights to install stuff, yes

[near ocean]

Its not a good idea to install non work related/approved stuff on company property

[summer roost]

Absolutely not

[marsh wind]

We had no security policies whatsoever at previous place. You just get a clean macbook 😂

[white relic]

I use the discord web app on my work PC sometimes.

[hearty island]

i had to get power bi authorized to be downloaded at my internship company, it took like 2 days

[summer roost]

I don't even log into my gmail account on a work device, let alone Discord

[hearty island]

yeah i keep that on my phone

you don't want your personal email on work stuff

what the fuck is wells fargo doing? 30 an hour? that's it?

[dreamy spade]

My manager wanted me to use my personal email to save master passwords for work related accounts on websites

I had an unflattering search history on Google as he was helping me nagivate in creating these accounts. It was embassrassing.

Turn sync off on Google please for the love of god lol

[hearty island]

finally guys, down to 3 more jobs for today

[white relic]

I'm far more protective of gmail than discord

All I use discord for is programming stuff though

[dreamy spade]

I forgot about the web app. That's going to be super useful. Thanks.

[summer roost]

That sounds like an absolutely terrible idea

[true harness]

did you not get a work email ?

[hearty island]

^

[buoyant seal]

my Home PC = Work PC 😅
Otherwise during office i had installed Discord too.
Because i remember i reinstalled OS to Kubuntu LTS with turned on checkmark for disk encryption. So i was safe for sure for my personal stuff.
Yeah, traffic is monitorable anyway, but... well, i don't care about it enough (if i cared i would have used wireguard which is easy to raise as docker compose )
Our company is not invasive and micromanaging enough for that, so it is safe to be doing whatever u wish as long as u are productive in working

[fringe sphinx]

I have a buddy at a big corp working on HR IT and the stuff they monitor is just scary. They know -everything-.

[whole flare]

Why would you have it on?

[hearty island]

finally finished all apps for today

[fringe sphinx]

They run predictive models on when employees are likely to quit, based on I gather, e-mail activity, office visits, badge swipes, etc

[dreamy spade]

It was an accident

[whole flare]

💀

[dreamy spade]

Yeah but my work email doesn't end with @ gmail.com

[hearty island]

outlook?

[fringe sphinx]

This, my friend, is not only terrible but also something that should -never- be done without written permission.

Imagine, if you will, some security problem and it ties back to these passwords: how would it look for you to have corporate passwords or any corporate data in your personal gmail?

If you e already done this, then put it in writing that you did so at managers direction: ‘I have copied xyz passwords to my gmail, as you directed. …’

[hearty island]

goddamnit UBS, i just did the entire test and the system crashed on me. UBS? more like BS.

just wasn't meant to be

[fringe sphinx]

Are you still being tested?

[hearty island]

it just ended and displayed this "You have now completed all tasks. Thank you very much. You can leave the system by clicking on ‘logout’." after an error message

[fringe sphinx]

The real test was inside you the whole time.

[hearty island]

testing my patience lmaooo

anyways, probably gonna get rejected by their program some time this week

at least i tried, right?

[fringe sphinx]

I doubt anyone has tried more than you

[hearty island]

thanks man 🙂 means a lot

[hearty island]

my mom thinks i will probably get a job either this november or December

[dreamy spade]

No the @ is my company's name

[hearty island]

oh but does it open in outlook? or gmail?

[dreamy spade]

Yeah it opens in outlook

[fringe sphinx]

Makes sense, just depends on HR and priorities

[hearty island]

i'm not going on a winter vacation so that means i can hunker down and apply seriously too

[fringe sphinx]

But you seem to be getting the looks, so that’s promising.

[dreamy spade]

I imported the master passwords on my work machine so I don't have to log in to my personal gmail ever again

[cinder veldt]

jn

[unkempt jackal]

I plan to go into Cybersecurity, Game Development (mainly a hobby), or programming and Python/Web development.

[smoky quest]

congrats!

[jade rampart]

Hi, I'm intrested in python programming language and would like upskill, may i know the good roadmap to become expert in it..

[smoky quest]

https://roadmap.sh may be what you are looking for.
Note that in terms of career, a CS degree will be the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities

[lethal nimbus]

I wanna learn python

[regal axle]

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[regal axle]

Go through and find some resources in there.
#python-discussion message
I am sure there are better answers to link to from this discord. But I know my own answer :p
And you can hang around #python-discussion to ask more questions and see what others are doing

[hearty island]

rise and grind people

got rejected by adobe today lmao

it was for a project manager program

[white relic]

You have a good attitude about it

[hearty island]

it was for graduating college ppl, so not really above my weight

shit happens tbh

[white relic]

Similar thing happened to me at EMC I think (project management opening for new grads)

Does EMC even exist anymore? Dating myself I guess

[regal axle]

No, fair. I realized after I sent that, that you probably were not. I just remember you sending some other ones you applied to that were. Regardless, still wishing you luck on the hunt

[hearty island]

thanks homie, really appreciate it

[fringe sphinx]

Nah, Dell bought them... it's "Dell EMC" now.

[hearty island]

i’ve never applied to as many government positions as i do now

they really do actively hire ppl

[fringe sphinx]

Bureaucracy requires a lot of people.

[white relic]

Government and defense positions also follow different economic cues than the commercial world, so they tend to keep hiring even when companies in other sectors are struggling

[buoyant seal]

hail to electronic rapid beraucracy in a fully digital form 😅

[white relic]

Making bureaucracy efficient is kind of missing the point

[hearty island]

still waiting for uhg's decision

it's been a week, i prob got rejected 😦

but that's ok

[regal axle]

1 week is not enough time for these places to get back. As in there are a lot of companies that take longer than a week to get back to an applicant. But then again, there are even more places that just ghost you. And that is fun

[hearty island]

haha, true

[white relic]

at my company I probably wouldn't even have seen your résumé yet after only one week

[hearty island]

yeah

[pine bison]

hi guys

[hearty island]

it took two-three weeks iirc last time i got in

[pine bison]

i recently took a class in school about making an AI in python, but my teacher just made us use a library, and im really interested in learning more about python and how to code

do you know of any good tutorials online?

idm if it cost money

[hearty island]

don't spend money to learn python. !resources

!resources, there we go.

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[hearty island]

smh why is kpmg's job app so ass. why not use workday? or talelo? or anything rather than what they actually do?

here we go again 🙂

[muted bridge]

this extension wouldn’t work for me haha

does anyone know of a good discovery project where I can maybe learn about sql databases?

[alpine quarry]

I need a project to be done

School project TOPIC: Theatre seating booking management, USING TKINTER AND PYTHON

DM me, if anyone interested

[vapid jay]

err

it's meant to be your own work right

[hearty island]

strange, i wonder what's going on

[errant thicket]

hey anyway i could find a job or side hustle while in school? for coding

[pine sleet]

By "school" do you mean high school or university?

[hearty island]

rejected from 6 jobs today. gotta take them on the chin. head up.

[errant thicket]

university n i really wanna find a side hustle for coding could you help me?

[pine sleet]

Internships are typically open to university students

[errant thicket]

ok is there a side hustle as well?

[pine sleet]

What are you meaning by "side hustle"?

[errant thicket]

for coding such as i seen web scraping data to make money… just wanted to know if you know any other ideas mate

[near ocean]

You could see if you can assist at uni, they usually pay and you it looks good on your CV

[errant thicket]

ok so try to see if there’s intern or assit at my university?

[near ocean]

yes

[errant thicket]

ok but old man… i see ai side hustle on youtube is that real?

[near ocean]

no

[hearty island]

make that 7 rejections, nasdaq

oh shit i didn’t know that sent, weird

[misty orbit]

Hey guys, I need some advice on learning python. where could I talk about this?

[peak halo]

#python-discussion. if you ask a complete question (not "can anyone give me advice?"), you will probably get several responses very quickly.

[misty orbit]

Oh my bad, didn't see the channel. Sorry

[white relic]

Are you trying to hit a word count? It's pretty wordy.

[fringe sphinx]

You don't need to talk about "many advertised placements" etc. Just talk about this position: "The in-person role in central London location is ideal. I plan to relocate to London (upon graduation? completion of current role? soon?), and believe an in-person opportunity is best for my professional development. "

I guess hammersmith isn't central london. Perhaps just "in London".

[gritty rivet]

You can go on Fiverr and Upwork and see all the stuff people are charging $3/hour to do, but if that doesn't excite you, just get a normal internship or student job

[hidden bloom]

Does this read okay? i know ur not meant to have negatives but... allow it i'm willing to take the risk.

[hearty island]

make that 9 rejections

gotta keep going tho

[sly panther]

accept them wtf

part of managerial or systemic efficiency is not increasing the environmental stress beyond a certain threshhold for others

environmental stress one outputs and ends up overflowing against others is one's own responsibility and is simply a failure to perform one's duties adequately

get an acute sense of the threshhold, become scientific about the threshhold, live with the threshhold, feel the threshhold, and act within it

it's invisible, it's vague, it's unclear, it's a dance only the crafty and clever who combine scientific understanding with social awereness can perform

[white relic]

OK, so, I hate to be a negative Nathan but it sounds pretentious and a little bit immature to me.

What you're saying is simple. "I want to work here because I like the location and want to live here after I graduate." That's your whole first paragraph without the flowery big words or vague jab at other companies. It's a simple concept and it doesn't need elaboration. The only thing I might add would be to emphasize your connection to the local community, if you have local family or other connections apart from school. "The intimacy of a small team also appeals to me, and I feel being onsite is the best way to learn." Paragraph 2. You can add details if you really feel it helps but phrases like "a multitude of" instead of "many" or "after the culmination of my degree" instead of "after my graduation" makes you sound like a simple person with a thesaurus. Sorry, I know you have worked hard on this and it is hard to hear that it sounds bad but if you want the job enough to write an essay, dig deeper.

Assuming the prompt is something like "why do you want to work here?" It would be a good idea to do some research on this company. What is their vision statement? How do they make money? What do their marketing materials tell you the company is about? And how do those things align with your personal goals?

Most of the essay is about incidentals: location, small team, onsite. That stuff is good to mention but I would want to put what the company does front and center. Presumably they don't just exist to hire students. How will your plan to be a research assistant relate to their business? Details like that can actually be a liability if it sends the impression that your real interest is in some research field irrelevant to the company's business model.

I know you're trying to hit a word count but you should try to do that by having more content: not just using more words.

It's worth pointing out that writing a 500?-word essay for an app is a pretty unusual requirement. Personally at this point in my career I wouldn't bother with any company that asked for that. It's a waste of my time. But you have more restrictions than I do and it is fair that you're willing to go farther for an opportunity that (it sounds like) you're really interested in.

[pine bison]

I dont mind spending money to learn.

i just want to be taught by whatever is best

[white relic]

It's not really worth the money. There are lots of free Python resources. The only exception I would make is buying books because I enjoy reading books but you can learn all you need for free.

[sly panther]

what's actually worth money is having someone experienced review your code, not having someone teach you

[pine bison]

I just realized this was career-discussion, mb

[pine bison]

my issue is im 13 years old and I dont know how to write code, so I cant have someone review nothing

i just find coding fun and I really want to learn how to do this

[sly panther]

plenty of resources available, having someone teach you really is just about the social aspect/accountability

[white relic]

(Let's continue this in #python-discussion )

[buoyant seal]

one of the best teachers is making projects 😊
https://codingchallenges.fyi/challenges/intro
https://nedbatchelder.com/text/kindling.html
Here is a lot of ideas.

Coupled with books for reading.
U could start with stuff like Head First
and to read Code Comlete
it can move you forward a lot

[unreal turtle]

is it better to have description for positions in work experience on linkedin or no?

[gritty rivet]

If you have some brief bullet points as evidence of all the impressive things you accomplished that's obviously not going to hurt

[unreal turtle]

which looks neater?

[regal axle]

All depends on how you implement it. This isn’t an absolute thing. Generally bullet points are better. But sometimes a description of the position is needed

[exotic crown]

anyone know how to download pygames lol

[smoky quest]

Hi!
That would be a question better asked in #python-discussion or #game-development

[exotic crown]

ight

[proven crest]

Hows the junior developer job market looking in the US right now? I've been a junior in the UK for around 7 months but will be moving to the NYC with family in the summer. I'm slightly worried about finding a developer role as I've heard a lot of bad stuff about the market there online.

[thorn depot]

hey what would be better and beneficial to study Blockchain or Linux System Administration? i have to choose between two for my upcoming semester

[elder forge]

I believe the job market for someone with knowledge of blockchain fluctuates with the price of crypto, as I believe the other applications of blockchain have failed to produce a large number of jobs.
Personally, I think crypto is too volatile for me to consider vis-a-vis my career.
Linux on the other hand is stable, to the point where many might consider it boring.
To be quite honest I don't think this choice matters too much, and both options are probably fine in the sense that learning new skills is always useful. In this regard, the topic that is more likely to get you out of bed and attending lectures might be the better choice for you.

[regal axle]

The market is pretty bad right now. But bad compared to what? A few years ago? Yea ... but it was also way too good for a little too long. So you will struggle to find a job but not in a "I can't get one way." Just a "this is taking longer" way. And some of the bigger companies are not hiring right now. But other smaller companies are 100% hiring. (Smaller here does not mean small btw)
So it is something to keep in mind but not something to stress too hard about. The real question becomes what type of job (and more specifically salary) you are expecting and if your expectations are reasonable. As long as your expectations are reasonable, the processes won't be that bad.

[silk rose]

Hi how is the job market in Europe currently for a data scientist with a background in physics? I hope to maybe exploit this physics background.

[elder forge]

A friend of mine has a PhD in dark matter physics, and now works with product recommendations.
How likely you are to use your physics background depends strongly on phat part of physics you have experience with, and how educated you are (bachelor, master or PhD)
I expect that the jobs that really connect physics and programming are in high demand and often come via referrals or networking, as there is often a link between university communities and start-ups that need the programming×physics expertise (or established companies for that matter).
However, I can't speak for the job market as a whole.

[silk rose]

@elder forge Thank you for your answer. I am looking for something with a bit more science background. I have a PhD. If I google for numpy python physics jobs, soon there is deep learning appearing, which I need to practise better. But I would be ready to start a junior developer and learn, while earning money. 😄
I see lots of jobs with ML, deep learning and that is not yet my forté.

[proven crest]

From my experience, the market is very good. I’m a developer, but we have quite a few DA and DS at our company, and we’re hiring more. You might find that your lack of technical knowledge is a bottleneck, e.g SQL, Python, Databricks etc, but if you know the basics that should be more than enough for entry level

[silk rose]

And if I may, when do people learn SQL, Spark, Hadoop (?), AWS? Definitely not in acdemia. I know HDF5, but yeah academia does not prepare for such tools

@proven crest I am good in Python, and yet no experience with SQL . But that should not be too hard, I hope

@Pyrex: And where do you search for jobs? Linkedin?

[proven crest]

It depends what you study, if you study physics, probably not, it’s not very relevant. You might learn Matlabs though. Likewise if you study Computer Science you won’t learn about 3d modelling, but you are likely to encounter that in a degree that’s tailored to Game development.

[devout smelt]

@proven crest I am a SQL and Python developer. Are you looking for a developer yet? Or is there any opportunity for me in your company?

[silk rose]

@Pyrex: Degree is long time finished. Indeed, we started with Matlab, but I changed also long time ago to Python.

[proven crest]

Yes, LinkedIn is great. It’s great for finding jobs and networking, reaching out to companies and people. It’s very underrated and not used to its full potential by a lot IMO. Google Jobs is pretty decent too, and of course there are tons of others that are regional.

[white relic]

What kind of physics?

[elder forge]

My friend who went physics PhD → industry told me two things you might want to keep in mind:

1. Most machine learning in industry is actually multiple linear regression (deep learning is not needed for most tasks, and if you think linear regression seems simple, that is because you are more knowledgeable than you give yourself credit for)
2. From your physics background (especially if you did experimental work) you have an understanding of uncertainty in data and data scaling (linear, quadratic, exponential etc.) that lets you evaluate what data is significant and what data to focus on. You also probably have some understanding of how model design can be used to account for this (i.e. if a factor scales quadratically, take the square root before the factor is input to the model, remove outliers etc.). These are competitive advantages that your physics background gives you.

[silk rose]

Of course I have a the general physics education. I specialised in X-ray physics, biophysics. Knowledge in tomography, diffraction, scattering analysis, building sample environments , programming them, applied science. It is a mix that came together

@elder forge Thank you. I will copy it and put this in my motivation section. Yes, I suffer from imposter syndrome.

[white relic]

There's a bunch of money in semiconductors right now with the EU chips act and stuff

If you're hoping to leverage your physics knowledge it's highly field-dependent

[silk rose]

Thank you. I will be hopefull and see where it goes.

I will just send my CV and see if I can get interviews

[elder forge]

Since you work with X-ray physics you may keep a look out (or use your network to see) if there are any openings on the programming teams at syncrotrons and X-FELs. To give you some idea of the relevance of these facilities: I believe the main maintainer of h5py works at the European X-FEL, and one of the core people maintaining of matplotlib works at Argonne.

[silk rose]

Yes, he works at EuXFEL. Those facilities don't offer a lot of permanent positions and even the temporary ones have not lot of development potential because of the whole academic problem where people are burnt instead of investing long term in their employees. I only saw a few facilities where the software group has implemented strategic decisions.
I hope in industry it is better, development in a team, clear tasks etc

I did not know about a matplotlib developer works for Argonne. That's cool!

How is career development in industry?

[elder forge]

No idea. I recently spoke to the head of the EuXFEL at a recent conference, and he told me they struggle to keep good developers because of government rules for salary etc. that they are bound by.

[silk rose]

Ah, you might work in academia

https://www.xfel.eu/careers/open_positions/index_eng.html?joboffer_details=e216694&record_pos=23
Appointment is limited to 2 years , no gurantee for continuation
I guess there are no surprises why they struggle, but at the same time, they are not ready to implement improvements for employees, i.e. more permanent positions.

[hidden bloom]

im confused is date attended to - the current date? i'm currently a student there so...

[silk rose]

I would say these are the dates of your degree etc. Start - Stop

[true harness]

i don't get why the 2nd and 3rd are both there. but i'd just put the same date there

[silk rose]

Graduation date could be later in case a ceremony is involved?

[fringe sphinx]

Perhaps because you attend without graduating? Seems like it’d just be a checkbox tho

[true harness]

yeah I guess you could drop out

[shell mauve]

bro i need an urgent help

we tend to code a student management system in python for our project

if anyone is willing to help pls dm me

[fringe sphinx]

If you need help, ask your question in #python-discussion or #❓｜how-to-get-help . We don't use DM for helping, there's lots of people available to answer questions.

[buoyant seal]

I don't like every math, but Linear Regression and Regression Analysis in general were fun 😊. We were predicting prices for carrots 🥕🥕🥕 in a future time during those lessons

[fringe sphinx]

My most recent favorite semiconductor/microprocessor video, if someone is interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olXire09ZnE&list=PL8uoeex94UhFcwvAfWHybD7SfNgIUBRo-&index=46 @silk rose

[hearty island]

i'm personally not going to worry about landing a job till april. make no mistake, i'll keep applying at the pace i normally do, but no more freaking out
i believe the more positively i think, the greater the chances of something positive happening will increase

just manifesting that confidence really, it's better for my mental health

gotta learn to control my mind before it starts controlling me

[fringe sphinx]

Have you tried meditation / mindfulness? Amazing stuff. Give it a try.

Like 20 min a day. I started with https://www.headspace.com/ at a friends recommendation.

[hearty island]

i'll check it out, thanks!

[hearty island]

pretty dry day for applications today from what i'm seeing

[hollow oracle]

Are there any good Python coding side hustles?

I have a little over 2 years of experience in Python coding. Python is all I have experience in and I'm willing to build up on the knowledge I have already to become an effective side hustling programmer.

[proper swift]

what is best to learn web or app dev who is gettin started and want a nice job???

[buoyant seal]

one of the best teachers is making projects 😊
https://codingchallenges.fyi/challenges/intro
https://nedbatchelder.com/text/kindling.html

message continuied in #career-advice message

[buoyant seal]

besides that, consider receiving CS degree in uni. 4 years of learning fundamentals and getting coding experience is 4 years. it is kind of hard to beat it

u have whole 4 years (or more) to break your mind and reshape into new one multiple times, having it adapted to code comprehension and architecture.
plus the whole creditability of a uni degrees, easier to get first job, easier to find internships, easier to break a cycle of needing experience to work.

[gritty rivet]

Unless you can find gigs in your own personal network, you're looking at platforms like Fiverr and Upwork where the competition is insane. Some people make it work but especially if you're not in a low wage country where $10/hour is good money, most will say it's not worth the effort

[patent mason]

Finding opportunities in UpWork suck because I feel like I keep getting scams

[red cosmos]

Hello Guys. I am junior python developer. Are there any projects or any vacancies here?

[hearty island]

we're not a job board, but i would recommend looking on linkedin

[quaint berry]

Hey all, hoping you can forward me to someone I can speak to regarding promotion. We'll be hosting a summit and hackathon in less than 2 weeks so it's a great place to explore career options.

We'll also be doing recruitment for both experienced and junior roles so this fits the career channel.

[restive rose]

Are most peoples goals in here to further their / start a career in programming? I work in architecture and I've been learning python to develop software plugins and just wondering if anyone else is in the same boat

[fringe sphinx]

I think there’s all types. I’m a professional (in the industry), as are many others… but there are also many students too, and everything in between

In terms of goals, it varies too. Some are just here to share their experience/knowledge, others are deciding on whether to enter the field or major in CS (for instance), and others are looking for job seeking advice

[fringe sphinx]

You’d have to ask a mod? Ignore my last suggestion: dm modmail is the right way

[west flint]

cyber security, I have to take a python class and I like learning more advanced stuff and some concepts are better described in here

[restive rose]

Cool, I'm not doing any official courses just learning from online resources like CS50 Harvard and "Bro Code"

I sometimes wish I went into CS or something, I work in architecture and also teach software but the pay really isn't what people would expect. Hoping when I'm more experienced with python I can get more ££ but tbh I doubt it

[west flint]

yeah, I currently am not learning much about networks or anything cyber related and just a bunch of gen ed bs, so I've been slowly learning on my own

[regal axle]

It is good and it isn't. The degree is helpful because it forces you to learn the boring fundamentals. But it is no way the only way to get good at CS. And it also doesn't actually teach you how to write good quality code. Each degree program diferes but generally I find that the ones who actually end up getting the most out of the degree are the ones who also spend the most time learning things on their own

[hollow oracle]

I do live in an area that's pretty expensive to live in. Definitely more than $13 hourly wage is required to live comfortably in my area. So, even if I hone on a specific niche, provide something unique and valuable, and build a strong portfolio it still may not be worth it to become a Python freelancer? You say it's not worth it unless I live in a low wage country. Do you say that from experience or maybe from observing other freelancers?

[white relic]

freelancing runs the gamut from doing gigs on fiverr to expert consulting for big bux

generally how you get to be the latter is by having connections and an impressive portfolio

it's hard to make connections and build a portfolio starting from scratch. so you're going to be on the low end of that scale for quite a while

If you live in a cheap area or if you have another source of income, maybe you can pull it off. If you're relying on it as your primary income, you're competing with people all over the world, who are living in cheaper places than you and need less money, or who don't need the money at all and are doing it for experience. The competition is insane.

[vapid jay]

I've an interview for AI based role

What can I expect for it
It's for an internship role and they mainly deal with NLP Products and provides chatbot service

[plain bluff]

is their a channel to find/start collaborate projects?

[hollow oracle]

When you say "so you're going to be on the low end of that scale for quite a while" you mean doing gigs on fiverr and focusing on building my portfolio?

[white relic]

if that's where you start, yes

some people skip that part by being well connected

[buoyant seal]

if u went through university and CS degree, it should be effort just above average to get competetive enough to earn a good amount (eventually).
salary depends on country to county, just google stuff like Glassdoor python backend salary YOUR_COUNTRY_NAME

[soft flint]

Python make the big bucks

[hollow oracle]

average salary of $127,282 per year 😂 thanks

America

[buoyant seal]

before taxes 😅

[hollow oracle]

ah shucks lol. still tho, even 70k per year currently is pretty comfortable in America.

[buoyant seal]

probably as long as u don't live in too expensive towns like San Francisco. On another hand a lot of IT people somehow live there, so should be possible

[fallow edge]

what are ur personal thoughts on stasrtying as coding blog

from about 13

[smoky quest]

It can be fun if you enjoy it

[smoky quest]

IT people in SF would make more than that 😉

[fallow edge]

career wise though

also If I were to do that where should I start

[smoky quest]

It's difficult to quantify. But I would say it has lower ROI than projects.

[fallow edge]

what should I invest my time in for the future

[fringe sphinx]

Regardless of your age or education: teaching is a great way of learning/mastering a subject. And writing is great practice regardless.

[smoky quest]

A CS degree will be the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[fallow edge]

How do I get a degree while just being in my home

is it like online courses at like Edx?

[smoky quest]

you look for online colleges.
That said, you will have to get out of your home at some point

[fallow edge]

thx

[fallow edge]

without colleges im 13

[smoky quest]

then don't worry about any of these.
In the mean time:

• Make sure you have good grades so you can get to an awesome college when you get to the age of it
• Have fun and build things. Make robots, games, mobile apps, websites, minecraft mods, etc.

[fallow edge]

thanks!
how do I make minecraft mods using Python

[smoky quest]

that would be a question for #python-discussion or #game-development

[fallow edge]

ok thanks so much for your time ^-^

[warm crystal]

Anybody know where i can find hackathons to engage in?

[gritty rivet]

I googled it for you: https://medium.com/@jonathanallengrant/the-7-best-websites-to-find-a-hackathon-the-hacklife-guide-3e420f2a565b

[warm crystal]

Is it allowed to look for hackathons team members in here?

Is it prohibited?
I don’t wanna get banned👀

[karmic oar]

hi! I recently came to US. Do you know maybe where and how I can find Python-related meetings? Do you have sth like that in US? 😄 I wanted to meet more people who like programming in Python and broaden my horizons regarding finding a job 😄 I heard that networking is really important in US. do you agree with this? Is it hard to get a job without knowing anyone? 🙂

[eternal summit]

how would you guys suggest I get into AI/ML with python? tag me

[gritty rivet]

Check dev.events (for larger conferences) and meetup.com (for smaller, more frequent events) to find relevant stuff in your local area. I'd say if you're in a major city there's a pretty good chance some monthly Python group exists

In terms of how important networking is to find a job, I'd say in the current market it's critical, especially if you're not very experienced. Here's a great article on this: https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/advice-for-junior-software-engineers/

[pine sleet]

Career wise you'll typically need a Master's in a related field

[brazen island]

By looking at the pinned posts in #data-science-and-ml 😄

[karmic oar]

thank you! I have 2,5 years of experience, but from my homeland 😄 I hope it will be enough

[pine sleet]

Experience is experience, it's a matter of how you sell it to employers

[dark thunder]

so on my github project, for some reason this file called .ds_store got pushed, should i delete this

[warm crystal]

Wow that’s amazing

[regal axle]

It’s a mac thing. You are safe to delete. But #python-discussion

[trim crypt]

Would companies look at your Youtube/Twitch channel if you say that you code in live stream?

E.g. I just did a live stream and I show how I manage to breakdown a problem and try to fix it myself.

[peak halo]

Probably not.

[trim crypt]

Well dang

[lofty wolf]

Why is the server logo different

[shrewd ginkgo]

Hey

Ive been told many times that jobs in programing and coding are rapidly dying due to the possibilities of AI? Any experienced views on this?

[azure heart]

People replacing junior programmers with AI means we won't have senior programmers anymore, and that would be a pretty terrible gamble for the entire industry to make

[shrewd ginkgo]

But within the next 5 to 10 years software development and programing jobs as a whole are meant to have nearly completely diminished, I'm studying it now but don't know If it will still be a career option when I come to it

[azure heart]

I cannot see that feasibly happening

If you're that concerned, focusing solely on AI would be a safe bet then, because people will have to maintain that code

[trim crypt]

Doubt it. Low-code/no-code website builders already exists like Wordpress, Wix, SquareSpace, etc for many years and yet web developers are still needed. AI is just another tool and won't replace jobs but enhances current jobs instead.

[shrewd ginkgo]

Okay thank you, gives me a bit more security

[warm crystal]

I can relate because i have been searching for the position of a junior dev yet I haven’t seen for weeks

[warm crystal]

Still a valid point

[azure heart]

This is anecdotally the opposite of my point. There should still be plenty of junior roles because those are the people who will eventually be replacing the seniors

[thorn depot]

hi thanks I went with blockchain i thought I could learn linux system admin myself

[pseudo bone]

Hello everyone, I had a question what percentage of salary increase should I expect if I am supposed to get a promotion from associate developer to a full time developer?

[elder forge]

Reasonable.
If you are not already a linux user I would strongly encourage you to install linux on your personal computer.
Even if you ultimately go back to windows/mac, daily driving a linux system for a while is a useful experience to have as a programmer.

[white relic]

There is no standard for how much different roles get paid across companies/locations/industries/even teams within a company or individual contributors have different compensations based on many many factors.
Promotions don't always come with a raise to begin with

[thorn depot]

I've been using Linux for the last 3 years

[regal axle]

There are some jobs that will be completely replaced by ai. But those were either dead end jobs or people who were not going to jump from junior to senior. However, like the others said, AI is a tool. And better tools tend to grow a market, not shrink it. If there are fewer cs jobs, it will have nothing to do with AI. It will be because the current market is over saturated. And it is. If you just focus on learning as much as you can and getting as much experience as you can, you won’t have anything to worry about

[gritty rivet]

I have yet to see any actual expert claiming this. Show me a good source if you have one, but as far as I can tell all the people anxious about this are either not in the field or are trying to sell you something

[delicate bane]

yeah the market is just bad atm. a lot of places arent hiring. and if they are, its usually not juniors.

[hearty island]

agreed. it's tough out there. my guess is i land something in January/February

bc now hiring has slowed down a bit for the incoming holiday and they're pulling the "we'll circle back after the holidays lol"

[regal axle]

I feel bad man. I swear sometimes I hear people talk about how they applied to like 5 places and get an offer. And then I hear people who have to apply to 100 just to hear back from 5 who say "sorry, not hiring you." And it these are two people who have very similar skills/experience. I don't get it man. But just keep your head up, you will find a good job.

[delicate bane]

yeah and 2024 is a different budget technically too

[hearty island]

thanks man, it means a lot. we will see tho, my internship is going to go as long as i want it to so it may end up as a full time offer. and it's a decently large sized company as well

[regal axle]

Ok, that isn't bad

[hearty island]

i'd be making $23 an hour and just living with my parents while i search for an actual job, but it's better than nothing. i think a lot of what's happening is because i graduate in may

[regal axle]

A saftey net is always nice. Even if it isn't ideal to end up in your own net; it helps take some of the stress off

[hearty island]

and employers want people immediately, they don't want to wait till may

that being said though, i have gotten like maybe 6-7 interviews

[delicate bane]

nice dude

[hearty island]

thanks rex 🙂

[true harness]

at least for swe, new grad offers are starting to be handed out around this time

[hearty island]

hmmm, maybe it's diff for biz majors

i feel like i fucked up my interview for WWT all those months ago by not giving them my magic salary number

[silk rose]

But how does a Mac differ from a Linuxs system? I use the terminal on the Mac everyday.

[hearty island]

i asked them what their budget was, like a fucking idiot smh

[regal axle]

They are both Unix based systems. And so the terminal works basically the same in both. However, the OS are not the same. But yea, it tends to just be better to learn "unix" over a specific OS since all the linux OS are built on unix and you don't have to stress about what the most popular flavor of the week is. (Although it does seem to be finally stabilizing).

[silk rose]

@regal axle Thanks, however I don't understand one point. Would my skills be evaluated as less worthy because I am on a Mac?

[regal axle]

I am on a Mac. Many programmers use a Mac. So no. Your skills are not based on the OS you pick. Some OSs make doing your ideal workflow easier or harder. So it more so depends on what you wish to do and less so about a blanket statement "OS x is better than y and if you use x, you suck >:( )

[hearty island]

the good news is that the big healthcare company i applied to and got a video interview for hasn't decided yet on my application. so fingers crossed i got the second round

UBS hasn't gotten back to me yet either

[dapper needle]

Hello.
I would like to test out how it feels to be a programmer.
I have modest-medium python skills.
Does any resource or challenge spring to mind that could give me a taste?

[silk rose]

Thank you! It is good to know if some people are tolerant. I like the Mac for 2 reason: terminal under the hood, but nice programs available. I can have the best of two worlds.

And if I really want, I could have windows, but I have not used it in a decade.

[elder forge]

My point was more that it is a learning experience to use linux. The conversation was in relation to 'linux system admin' as a possible specialization for a student.
I am no expert in mac, but from my understanding things work in mac os, whereas my experience with linux is that to make something work on my system I must dive into the bowels of stackexchange, interpret the arcane glyphs, and bend the will of my computer until my system breaks and I have to do a grub-repair to boot.
For me it is a learning experience every time.

[dreamy spade]

I’m going to my first company event tomorrow

[light sequoia]

congrats

every programmer last stage is to get a job and u done in congrats

[pine sleet]

Depends on person, but not necessarily

For some people software engineering is just a career and a means to put food on the table, but not for everyone

Hi, we don't allow recruitment in this server. Please delete this

[near ocean]

I've never seen anyone express their love for making casino games

[regal axle]

Not really. A job is a means for me to make money while I do the things I am good at. But the job isn't the purpose of programming. Creating things is. Well, for me at least. And so even outside of work, I do a lot of programming. Also, your first job as a programmer is not even close to the end of your journey

[warm crystal]

You a senior dev?

[regal axle]

Complicated. No? Yes? Let us just for simplicities sake say yes without getting into what I do for work

[buoyant seal]

As long as u aren't DevOps engineer probably not. Using not Linux for DevOps (which aims Linux servers) is really.... Not best direction I think

If u a in web dev, backend, full stack, data engineer or quality assurance engineer, it would be expected u got hang of Docker in your operational system, with ability to build and run Linux based docker images for your dev env (easy to do with Docker Desktop at least). As long as u got hang of it, 😉 nobody is probably going to care which OS u a using.
P.s. Non Linux OSes have extra overhead to run Docker (because they need to raise internal Linux VM for that). Make sure u have powerful enough PC to satisfy your needs being non Linux user that develops for Linux 😁 (again, that is related to u only if u a in any web related field)
P.P.S. docker is building images specific for CPU architecture and OS, so u just can't run Linux images at non Linux directly, it may change in a future with Docker WASM (in beta), but it is not yet adopted for now
P.p.p.s. Mac has extra headache for docker in being arm64 CPU architectured, over majority of the world still amd64ed. It makes some compatibility problems with docker further, unless u virtualize amd64 vm
(Cloud has already solid direction of moving towards arm64 images and servers because it is cheaper though. AWS graviton instances made breakthrough)

[knotty siren]

Hey i want you gyze to help me with a question. i don't have a bachelor degree. what will the carrier guide for me i am working in python. for now own my own. but what will be the career guide for me.

[fringe sphinx]

Tell us about yourself. What do you know? What education do you have? What experience or programming knowledge? What country?

[deft herald]

Was the "please answer" part necessary? I would assume since you're asking a question, you want someone to answer

[deft herald]

Also, are you planning on obtaining a bachelor's degree?

[knotty siren]

i have some knowledge in programming i have done few projects like custom webdev and i am working with Django now. i was into lot of things like game dev. i did some short class projects on that. scripting(scraping). i just studied till 12. intermediate. i have no plan for a bachelor's degree now.

[knotty siren]

yeah that was't necessary.

[fringe sphinx]

What country?

[knotty siren]

Pakistan

[knotty siren]

even before that i was into lot of stuff. like Digital marketing as freelancer and also some more stuff.

[fringe sphinx]

I am not qualified to give career advice for your country: career requirements are very locale dependent. But, perhaps someone else can. If you’re asking: how to learn Python or level-up your knowledge, that’s probably something lots of us could answer.

[knotty siren]

no issue i understand that.

[knotty siren]

if i have limited time and i want to do something like some stuff online in python now and from which i can also accelerate that as career later. what would that be in python? what skill or work that will be using python? i can code.

[warm crystal]

Mind telling me ?
I haven’t ever gotten hired🤣

[fringe sphinx]

For any programmer, having a broad foundation is key. If you’ve never done anything with Ml or AI, I highly recommend: CS50 for AI. https://cs50.harvard.edu/ai/2023/

[regal axle]

Right now, I co-own a company where I make all of the tech decisions and program solutions. I also am part of a client "consulting" firm where clients come to us with problems and we create solutions for them. We are not consultants though since we create the solutions. But these things don't automatically make me a senior dev. There are some topics that I will know better than some senior devs but on the other hand, they know topics better than me. And some of those topics that I am missing are because I have not needed to do them. Basically what I am getting at, is that one company might view me as a senior dev but another won't. So it just depends on how you define it. My accomplishments at face value would suggust yes. But there are other reasons why that isn't the case. Basically comes down to if I am senior dev with a specific stack and they define it by how well you understand a stack; if you define it like that, I would probably say I am not

[fringe sphinx]

If you know nothing about cybersecurity: learn a bit about that. Or web development: try a project using a new framework

[warm crystal]

From what you said, I totally understand you so yes everybody might have a different viewpoint so for me i’d say you’re experienced enough to be a senior dev and would love love to connect 🔥

[warm crystal]

Frame works like django ?
Or even html as a whole?

[fringe sphinx]

You and I are in similar worlds then!

[warm crystal]

Can we conn?👀

[fringe sphinx]

Yea, like Django. Or fastapi or flask

But similarly, if you don’t know cloud, learn AWS, etc. look at job descriptions and pick something you know nothing about

[sick bison]

How much overlap is there if I have a background as a data analyst from a career perspective if I have a data analysis background? I've sort of avoided ML

I often see data science and ML taught together, that course might be worth my time

[fringe sphinx]

Overlap with what? Between Ml and DA?

[warm crystal]

You know where i can learn more on django?

[fringe sphinx]

I don’t know Django, myself… but ask in #python-discussion

[warm crystal]

Even if i pick something i have no knowledge about i still get rejected

[sick bison]

yes, I guess I assume you are informed of what employers look for, I took a break from a DS course to work on a volunteer excel project for a bit and now I'm wondering how much my portfolio maters

[warm crystal]

Never actually gotten a job lolalri

[fringe sphinx]

Portfolio is helpful for a few reasons: it differentiates your resume. You need experience, and projects are the only way to get it. It gives the interviewer something to talk to you about.

[warm crystal]

Clear info !

[sick bison]

Hmm, thinking I should take a another analyst job at this point and move around until i find something that give me some ML exposure.

I guess that's where the course I was working through and the harvard course you suggested would come in handy

[fringe sphinx]

I think there are far more DA jobs than DS

[sick bison]

Yes, there're plenty, but excel is too eazy for me at this point

[fringe sphinx]

Then look at DE instead? Less academic.

[sick bison]

DE?

[hearty island]

data engineering

[sick bison]

maybe

something for me to think about

[warm crystal]

How do you even search for jobs?

[sick bison]

Google? If I decide to start applying tomorrow I'll probably just fill out 100 applications and wait.

[hearty island]

i use linkedin mostly, i use a ublock origin filter to get out the easy apply jobs

[warm crystal]

Easier said than done

[warm crystal]

Linkedin is extremely hard for me to navigate

[hearty island]

what's hard about it lol

[sick bison]

As BillyBobby mentioned, there're consistantly a good number of data analyst openings. I enjoyed the work for a while and it's good office exposure if you're trying to get your foot in the door.

[warm crystal]

I don’t ever find jobs that match me

[sick bison]

It's spreadsheet work though, I might be recommending it in the wrong place.

[knotty siren]

thanks

[fringe sphinx]

In terms of finding a job: I can only speak to my experience. Networking (friends, business associates, customers, friends of family, etc) is very important. Sales people have a saying: never have lunch alone. Meaning: always find opportunities to talk to people… especially informally.

[regal axle]

A previous manager I had finally got back to me and said he would be willing to write me a letter of rec. And then proceeded to be the first person - of the people who are writing me one - to finish. Lol, love it.

[subtle slate]

Hi everyone, I'm new in this server and i'm a graduate in geology who wants to approach studying data science, python and PyQGIS. Hope to learn from yours experience in the field

[hearty island]

well what jobs are you looking for?

[crisp stream]

@glacial pawn, we don't allow asking people to DM for doing tasks, especially paid ones, as part of our rules.
Please read the #rules.

[glacial pawn]

My bad.

[pearl canopy]

Hello smart friends

[next plover]

would employers like a github to look at regarding something like a cybersecurity position?

im assuming they would, but im curious how they verify its actually mine

because im a privacy freak and use a random string of characters for my username and dont intend on making it my real name

[pearl canopy]

What the hell u r talking about

[next plover]

what

employers for lots of IT jobs would definitely want to see a github

[hearty island]

employers generally like seeing a github, yes

[warm crystal]

Just a junior developer
I’d be super glad of i get someone to accept me fr

[hearty island]

maybe it's worth your time acquiring the skills the job postings are asking for, so this way you fit them

[next plover]

is it worth it to put labs ive done for homework on it

or would a more unique project look better

[hearty island]

more unique is generally better for github i would say

[regal axle]

More unique is better. However, labs can be good too. Generally if you extend the lab into something bigger / better. That is when it tends to be a good project. People don't care to see you invent a new type of wheel. Just that you know how to write something and that you have experience in writing something

[fringe sphinx]

Having a random username is fairly common. As to why github/projects are important, I'll just quote myself: #career-advice message

[regal axle]

Although, with that being said; how often are github profiles actually looked at?

[fringe sphinx]

My point was that it doesn't actually matter: the experience and knowledge will be tested regardless. Hard to fake it.

[near ocean]

as a junior, when our team was hiring I looked at every single one and judged them silently

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I don't look when screening... but have often pulled up a project and had a candidate walk us through it in the interview.

[near ocean]

well its not my job to screen, CVs get passed to the entire team and i like being nosey :^)

[regal axle]

Fair. My experience has been to talk about a project I was part of // worked on. I have not had someone look at my code live. But then again, all of my bigger projects can't be public on gh

[near ocean]

youre not hiding your react-redux-template project from me

[delicate bane]

classic mar

[regal axle]

yea. If I think about it, I feel like I would probably do the same thing

[warm crystal]

What else do you do

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, this is the part people forget about projects/github portfolio: You actually have to be able to talk about it.

[warm crystal]

You’re a junior dev?

[near ocean]

attend interviews so i can skip work

it is what it is

[warm crystal]

Share some innit

[near ocean]

theyre very exclusive, invitation only

[delicate bane]

maybe i should try this. jk i would still have the same amount of work regardless

[near ocean]

its only work if someone hounds you to do it

[knotty siren]

got it

[torn prawn]

https://tenor.com/view/do-not-run-python-python-computer-python-coding-coding-funny-coding-meme-gif-10365831290651691441

[deft herald]

Not the channel for memes my friend

[tired heart]

Hey @fringe sphinx what’s the best way to use this channel

[fringe sphinx]

@tired heart have you considered hiring interns or college students? It’s hard to find senior talent: trade shows will be a hard place to recruit, but entry level candidates are jammed right now.

[fringe sphinx]

Anything to do with jobs and careers: but not recruiting / offering jobs.

[tired heart]

Yes. I have 1 at the moment who can do front end work

You’d be surprised there is ALOT of college students at these events. They get free passes

[fringe sphinx]

Most universities have career centers too, you can often chat with them to find talent

[loud walrus]

anyone know how to use python to do ads on telegram?

[fringe sphinx]

Wrong channel? See #python-discussion

[loud walrus]

my bad

[tired heart]

Haven’t tried this one yet. I’m in Chicago, we have some good tech schools here

I can Possibly sponsor a thinktank

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, absolutely. This is the best hiring market in a long time: and prob best time to start a venture

(I’ve been in small tech/startups for a long time)

[tired heart]

Really?

Currently I can only hire based on equity - limits my options

[fringe sphinx]

Not ideal but, college students are desperate for internship experience. I don’t advise unpaid interns, and equity makes no sense, so any cash might be helpful but yah, limiting

[hearty island]

my first internship was unpaid

[tired heart]

My current dev is unpaid - all of us have jobs

[hearty island]

it was terrible lol

[tired heart]

Great jobs luckily but still. I brought on a team of college students and recently graduated. 12 people, realized that half lied to me about their knowledge and the others fell off or didn’t want to work

[true harness]

why are you not paying your workers 😬

[fringe sphinx]

They said equity. Not abnormal for an early stage.

(That means paying in stock, a cut of future business value)

[tired heart]

If it works out they will get equity and salary once funding hits. It’s a risk like anything in life

[true harness]

also, was there an original question missing?

[tired heart]

I believe and if they do to, we stick it out put our blood and sweat into it and grind

[fringe sphinx]

We continued a convo from pydis

[true harness]

i thought they said unpaid, i guess i misinterpreted

[tired heart]

Whats your definition of unpaid?

[true harness]

not being compensated

[hearty island]

only good thing was that it led me to the uhg internship

i don't even have it on my resume anymore tho (the unpaid internship)

[tired heart]

Do you count equity as compensation

[true harness]

sure, why not

[tired heart]

[pine sleet]

We don't allow recruitment here, sorry

Places like LinkedIn and Indeed are better if you wish to be hired

[lunar stag]

What people hire coders for when it involves personal needs

[lapis carbon]

does anyone want to play fortnite

[peak halo]

please ask that in an off topic channel

[lapis carbon]

sorry

[weak kindle]

That' cobra

[smoky quest]

There are! Any question about them?

[void bobcat]

I have more than 6 years working independently developing web applications with Python and Django REST Framework.

I've been looking for a Python job like Backend or Fullstack for almost 2 months now, but I can't find it. What must I be doing wrong?

[buoyant seal]

What must I be doing wrong?
show anonymized resume with which u are looking for a job?

I have more than 6 years working independently developing web applications with Python and Django REST Framework.
could u describe it in more detail. Was it paid experience or not, if paid then in which form of a workf schedule ocupation and payment strategy

[near ocean]

<@&831776746206265384>

[void bobcat]

I will send the Resume... Yes, it was paid. Generally I earned money for projects. I handled all the negotiations, assembled the team, architected the project and developed it with the team. My main activities were negotiation (project management) and backend development

[pine lance]

Türk var mı 2 dk yardım gerek de

[white relic]

!rule English

[inner wren]

Rules

4. Use English to the best of your ability. Be polite if someone speaks English imperfectly.

[light sequoia]

!rule english

[inner wren]

Rules

4. Use English to the best of your ability. Be polite if someone speaks English imperfectly.

[river meadow]

Hi guys, i'm new around here. I want to start a career based on programming but idk nothing about it yet ( already work in a big company in other sectors ). My question is: what's the best way to start? Go to a online course? I'm 27y now and my biggest issue is the absence of a mentor about that..

[white relic]

Personally I like to learn from books, but the best will depend on you

[warm crystal]

Where would you suggest is the best place to get educated on django?

[warm crystal]

You designed the stuff (website)on your bio?

[white relic]

Many people get into programming as adults by finding some kind of intersection with what field they're in. Like going from nursing to nursing informatics. Since most working adults don't have the option to go back to college and get a degree related to software, it's better to leverage your existing experience

[buoyant seal]

for BigTime: Offficial django tutorial is good

For Big Time and @river meadow

1. Code Complete Is excellent book for all aspects of programming and recommendations what to read next
2. Unit testing best practices and TDD by kent beck are excellent readings to weaponize your coding skills to minimum working quality acceptable level.

@warm crystal and @river meadow
https://codingchallenges.fyi/challenges/challenge-json-parser
https://nedbatchelder.com/text/kindling.html
pracing in projects is the best way to learn. Theory is needed, but it will not work or be remembered/understood without practice 😉

[river meadow]

Thanks guys

[plain bluff]

I'm in abit of a sticky situation, I have no work experience and am currently doing PPD, I need to make a CV and fill in a job application but it's asking for experience...

[turbid bobcat]

what's the consensus on using the python std lib in leetcode type interviews

[lapis wind]

use the tools available to you unless they ask you otherwise

[warm crystal]

Ah thank you so much

[warm crystal]

I actually heard this it’s better to code than to learn

@buoyant seal one last question
How do I combine a frontend and a backend into a website or sumn, I’m having problems there

[upbeat belfry]

You can use app.route.

It's a piece of cake.

[warm crystal]

To connect the backend to front?

[fringe sphinx]

If you're looking for general python/coding help, please ask in #python-discussion

[mighty otter]

MONEY

[hearty island]

finally, my equipment for my internship is coming today!!

i'm so excited, going to try to make a really positive impression on my boss and secure that full time offer 🙂

[warm crystal]

Wishing you the best

[hearty island]

thanks!

[brazen arrow]

Can anyone tell hat type of Internship I can get in Python. Currently I am in 2nd year of College and I know Python just basics and its OOPS Concept. So is there anyay I can get ?

[vapid jay]

I want study for Improving my knowledge and I would like to use this for the future but I am undecided whether to choose cyberdecurity ,web development , game development or software design
What is the best option and why?

[hearty island]

there is no "best option," it's really up to you and your passion

[vapid jay]

I would like to try all 4 areas lol

[hearty island]

that's good then, you'll figure out what area you want from that

[vapid jay]

What does each area do?

[rapid solar]

Unlock Your Vision with a Seasoned Full Stack Developer!

With a decade of expertise, I'm here to turn your dreams into reality. Experience a brilliant future with a seamless blend of creativity and technology. Expect nothing less than pixel-perfect, mobile-responsive UI, coupled with top-tier performance for your website and mobile app.

Elevate your digital presence today!

[fringe sphinx]

No ads. Plz delete

!rule 6

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

[hearty island]

22 rejections, 121 applications ever since i've been counting. 18% of the jobs i've been applying to i've gotten rejections. but what about the other 82%?

[pure otter]

what are the roles u r targetting

[hearty island]

IT, business analyst, project manager, project coordinator

i don't really apply for swe roles bc i'm not a CS major

[pure otter]

okay.. got it

[pure otter]

by the way in 82% you received interview calls or started with process??

[hearty island]

no no, i've recieved nada for the 82%

i've recieved nothing, but the earliest role i applied to was a week ago. and generally companies take time to process applications

so maybe there will be interviews coming

[pure otter]

okay okay... yeah this happend with me as well after applying i got response 2 months later

[hearty island]

i personally think that companies are slowing down because the holidays are coming up

[pure otter]

where r u from

[hearty island]

US

[pure otter]

okay

[pure otter]

yeah, may be the reason or they will respond as soon as they process the application

[hearty island]

i applied to a bunch of government positions too and from what i see they take a ton of time to process applications

[pure otter]

what about early/middle aged startups are u applying there as well

[hearty island]

not really, not big into the startups thing

[pure otter]

okay... but I guess there might be some good ones that you can look up to just a thought

[hearty island]

got it, i will try

[pure otter]

how many years of experience you have @hearty island

[hearty island]

i have 4 internships and i'm graduating may 2024

[pure otter]

Looks cool

[hearty island]

could've possibly had more if i did the textron internship freshman year and my uhg internship junior year

[pure otter]

Cool, but you already had done 4 and its great I guess you have learned so much in each

Soon, you will crack job too

[hearty island]

thank you!

[pure otter]

All the best bro and try searching in more proper way try with startups as well which you think will be good for you

[hearty island]

i also think it's bc of when i graduate, companies would want people who graduate sooner

[pure otter]

that may be the reason too they want peopel to join full time soon

[hearty island]

wow, my friend forgot to do her goldman sachs interview

[hearty island]

guess i got past the first round

ftr, i have applied for amazon multiple times, i never got an assesment before

[vapid jay]

I want study for Improving my knowledge and I would like to use this for the future but I am undecided whether to choose cyberdecurity ,web development , game development or software design
What is the best option and why?

[midnight pasture]

Is collage degree important to get a job
Or experience is more important

[hearty island]

college degrees definitely help

[peak halo]

experience is more important. but it's exceptionally difficult to get the kind of experience that employers care about without first getting a degree. certificates and portfoilo projects will vary rarely ever cut it.

[midnight pasture]

So I need both

[regal axle]

It’s a really funny simulation. I know it will be slightly different from person to person but it spends a little too much time on “you realize you can’t meet a deadline; what do you do?”
But good luck. It’s more a personality test than a skill test. But there is a little bit of skill stuff in there

[peak halo]

yes. while you're pursuing a degree, you should also get involved in student groups related to your interests. and apply for internships to do over the summer.

[hearty island]

thank you!

^ can't stress internships enough ^

[vapid jay]

I want study for Improving my knowledge and I would like to use this for the future but I am undecided whether to choose cyberdecurity ,web development , game development or software design
What is the best option and why?

[midnight pasture]

Thx for help

[gritty rivet]

You don't need to choose. There often overlap. Get a CS degree if you can, as it will help with all of those.

[hollow kernel]

how does one do that without a CS degree.

[warped pendant]

hiii

[fringe sphinx]

Hard work, a lot of practice and studying, and luck. It’s exceptionally hard to land a SWE job without a degree. But, there are adjacent jobs, such as QA, that have lower barriers to entry

[warm crystal]

Where’d you get em?🥹

[hearty island]

one was from this company that blocks spam calls, the next one was project management related at a small company in new york, the one after that was a big healthcare company, and the one after that is back at the big healthcare company

oh actually no i've had 5 internships, i just can't count ☠️

i get confused because i only have my 3 most recent internships on my resume

[woven lynx]

I currently work as a nurse and studieng computer science. Anyone else here with same backround?

[noble dawn]

I personally don't believe in luck.

[fringe sphinx]

I’m debating between pithy remarks, like “good luck with that” or “science doesn’t care what you think”.

But I’ll go with: there is no deterministic path to “success” (however you may define it).

[gritty rivet]

Maybe not here, but I see these posts pretty frequently on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/search/?q=nurse

[woven lynx]

I have to check that

[gritty rivet]

You can also probably find folks who have made the same transition pretty easily on LinkedIn, maybe even in your local area

[brave mauve]

Hey how can i start to build a networking :), i'd like to start to have friends which i can code with and build things

[slow crescent]

here

[nimble swallow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/859798424736235520.gif?quality=lossless&size=48

[brave mauve]

Hi

[livid ocean]

I worked as an EMT and then self taught myself python and eventually got a job at indeed

[lone bear]

mma or boxing

[vapid jay]

hello

[harsh river]

#❓｜how-to-get-help

[long solar]

Is being a CS professor easy

[pine sleet]

Depends on many things and depends on what you're comparing to

[blazing harbor]

absolutely not

[flint rock]

Chat dead

[vapid jay]

are mass layoffs still happening?

[white relic]

In my very casual opinion, not really.

Which doesn't mean things are necessarily back to how they were during or before the pandemic

[fringe sphinx]

Good question, I haven’t heard much either but layoffs do occur even in normal course of business, so some layoffs are expected. Found this article: https://techcrunch.com/2023/11/9/tech-layoffs-2023-list/

[weak kindle]

If i am not wrong, they need to study alot of maths

[proven crest]

@fringe sphinx looks like layoffs are mainly at public companies, in your experience is it mainly BAU for non publicly traded companies?
I’m still nervous about my transition to the US and finding a job, especially with only a years experience and no degree.

Would a couple of years in a tech role that’s none development (or minimal development as I can see myself automating a lot of things) make it easier?

[fringe sphinx]

Nah just that public companies tend to disclose layoffs. Private companies may still layoff but may not be as open about it

[fringe sphinx]

Yes, absolutely. There are many jobs in tech, and your foot in the door is a good first step

[fringe sphinx]

Many non development roles are very challenging and satisfying, data analysis, QA, customer facing roles too

[proven crest]

There’s one waiting for me in a national recruiting companies head office, but as far as I’m aware it’s just tech support. But as I said, there’s a lot that can be automated and I’ve put some thought into that already. Hopefully that’s something I could implement (I have family who works there, that’s how I got the in) but it feels like a step back from a role that’s full time development.
Wouldn’t that be strange on a CV?

[fringe sphinx]

I dunno, I’m a: take the best opportunity in front of you. If that’s your only opportunity, then that’s great.

And, if you find that limiting, take some evening courses or do projects to balance your resume.

[proven crest]

Yeah of course, that makes sense, and I’m very blessed to have that opportunity waiting for me

And yeah I was thinking about possibly working towards a degree part time

think my goal whilst there would be (along with what comes with my role) attempt to improve and innovate where I see the it possible, hopefully that will lead to some good projects during work, and of course I’ll continue working on projects outside of work too

[fringe sphinx]

Strongly advise… it takes a long time but if you chip away at it one class at a time, you’ll not only get through it, but you’ll be a better version of yourself!

[proven crest]

Question about that: how much does the university matter? There’s a few i looked at. Oregon State, Florida and OWU(think the names wrong, the owl one) for online and part time learning. However they rank quite low. I also looked at Stoney Brooks which ranks higher and i could qualify for a scholarship for, but it’s full time

Also connected to that, if I have a degree from a lower ranking university, could I get a masters from a higher ranking university if I have a 1st (or us equivalent of a high pass)

[white relic]

University rankings matter very little in terms of the education you get. They matter more in terms of the networking opportunities you get by going there

[white relic]

That's very common. As long as the institution is accredited

[proven crest]

When you say that, do you mean networking in terms of during university or does that extend to outside. For example in job applications.

[fringe sphinx]

Ideally, find a university that’s local that also offers online. Gives you both in person and online options.

[white relic]

During university, mostly. What kind of internships are available to you and what kind of support you get from the career services office and just in terms of who you know when you graduate.

[proven crest]

That’s all great, thank you!

[light sequoia]

do you having degree is going to change ur future of getting job

[white relic]

Another place the university really starts to matter is when you're getting a PhD, because the choice of advisors and the kind of research available to you will be dramatically different depending on where you go

[light sequoia]

may i ask who you are and are u talking with ur intelect or experience

[proven crest]

That’s something I’d consider quite far in the future, but same as a masters, I would want to go to a better university

I think Western Governors University is a strong contender for now, it’s online only but flexible which is pretty useful.

[white relic]

Yes

[light sequoia]

be more specific

[white relic]

I have been in novel electronics research for 10 years. Don't have a PhD myself but most of my colleagues do. I'm speaking from observation and what they tell me.

[light sequoia]

it doesn't matter which univercity u go it matter what you want to do in future

[light sequoia]

i don't this kind of personality will come discord those people are too busy (nice too meet u)

[white relic]

Having a degree gives you a lot of options. Pursuing a degree opens up internships that you don't have available otherwise. It's not that you can't get a job without a degree, but if you have the option to get a degree, you will have better opportunities and most likely higher pay.

[light sequoia]

it depends on the person who is working in system or creating the system this is for people who work in system

[proven crest]

I don’t have experience in the US, but from what I know degrees are very important there. I have a years of experience as a junior developer in the UK and worked on a diverse range of products and with a diverse range of technologies, however I don’t have a degree. From what I heard they would pick a junior with a degree and no experience over myself.

There are areas in which I’m lacking contextual knowledge and I think a degree would absolutely be beneficial in terms of self development, but I think I could learn these on the job too.
But further to this, I’d like to get a masters and for that I’d need a degree.

[light sequoia]

what is ur destionation

[proven crest]

NYC

[fringe sphinx]

I think you’ll also be surprised where life takes you: a lot of people start in development and move into other adjacent careers

That’s a good thing, lots of opportunity for smart and competent people

[white relic]

That's influencer talk. People who make money telling other people what they want to hear, selling books and courses and boot camps. A lot of the people selling this stuff have never even worked in industry

[light sequoia]

it depends on a person

[white relic]

Sure, some people are breakout successes without a degree. But you need to get lucky. How much of your career are you willing to pin on luck?

[light sequoia]

the thing i am trying to say is that be open minded and you see many opportunity in many career

[fringe sphinx]

“Chance favors the prepared” - Louis Pasteur

[light sequoia]

so people who work hard to done thier project with degree is luck

tell me have you seen a person with degree and say i got it with luck

[proven crest]

I’m confused, can you elaborate on what the point you’re trying to get across is?

[light sequoia]

when you say that you are trying to take that guilt from ur soul and say it is luck

[fringe sphinx]

I think the point was the opposite. Don’t count on luck: get a degree if you can, and work hard

[light sequoia]

he thinks i am saying as influencer and people who got without degree is luck but actually it is working hard

[white relic]

I fully agree. One of the best opportunities you can take, with the highest return on investment, is to get a degree. Smart people will take that opportunity when it arises

[light sequoia]

the best thing to get something is bye deserving it degree doesn't make u creative or a producttie person it only used in job

[light sequoia]

but you are saying it is by luck(can you give what u mean by luck)

[white relic]

Creative and productive people with degrees have better opportunities and make more money than creative and productive people without degrees

[fringe sphinx]

In software development, it is very hard to land a job without a degree.

[white relic]

It's not an either or proposition, you can have both

[light sequoia]

don't make your income higher make personality and skill higher because it gets you more money

[light sequoia]

you think it is only about money but if you maximize your talent money will be more that anyone

[digital fjord]

This is a very idealistic and unrealistic view of the world

[proven crest]

I think he’s talking in terms of probability, a degree will increase the probability of success. Also this is for the United States. I got a good developer role in the UK without a degree, and that was through very hard work and long hours and sacrifices, but I can say there was an element of luck involved too. I messaged the right person on LinkedIn who was having a good day and replied promptly and set up an interview the following day. My projects were very similar to the work the company does. Stars aligned in that situation.

[fringe sphinx]

When do you come to the states?

[proven crest]

Next April/May

[hearty island]

today’s my first day back at the big healthcare company

[light sequoia]

unfortunatly people doeesn't follow dream they follow way to only survive

[white relic]

One of the best ways to maximize your talent and make connections that position you for success is to get a degree. I'm not at all saying that talent and hustle don't matter. I am saying that if you have the talent and hustle to get a great job without a degree, statistically speaking, you would do even better if you use that talent and hustle to get a freaking degree

[light sequoia]

true in this society but still there are exceptions

[fringe sphinx]

If everyone followed their dreams, society would collapse

[light sequoia]

thats what goverment want you to think

[fringe sphinx]

That’s why they implanted our chips

[light sequoia]

as william said i don't want nation of thinker i want nation of worker

[hearty island]

what is going on lmaooo

[true harness]

you don't need the government to tell you that certain dreams don't pay very well...

[fringe sphinx]

(Not taking this convo seriously)

[digital fjord]

For most people, their dreams are largely unrelated to their career. Getting a degree and a not-soul-crushing job is generally a good step 1 to accomplishing your goals, whatever they may be.

[proven crest]

That doesn’t really work for a position where thinking is a critical part of the job

[light sequoia]

so people who follow thier dream became rich and happy like steve job, bill gate(he was a programmer)

[fringe sphinx]

A good recipe for success is pick any two: good pay, liking the job, sense of accomplishment

[light sequoia]

you guys have been brainwashed by system of education

[digital fjord]

just because a few competent people in the right place (Ivy league schools) managed to take unorthodox routes doesn't mean it is good advice in general.

[light sequoia]

if i give thousands of reason you guys can't agree it is not your fault you guys belief is something that we can call a lie

[proven crest]

Absolutely, they stared companies and had a strong network. If I had that I wouldn’t get a degree either. They dropped out to peruse a dream with likeminded skilled individuals. If you have those resources and ability you should peruse that. However that is an edge case

[digital fjord]

You do not need to do some insane retire at 30 tech startup scheme to live a pleasant life, especially in tech

[white relic]

All you have to do to follow Bill Gates's path to success is be born a millionaire, go to Harvard, and get into a nascent industry at exactly the right time

[light sequoia]

now you guys are throwing your guilt saying he had opportunity i don't

[fringe sphinx]

Are you just saying: skip college, and go be an influencer?

[light sequoia]

the thing i am saying is to follow ur heart

[true harness]

it is undeniable that bill gates had certain resources that many people did not, and that these resources existed solely due to luck

[fringe sphinx]

How about: follow your heart AND be prepared?

[plush summit]

I mean harvard isn t that special it is mostly the ppl that get into it tbh but the us system is pretty terrible anayway😅

[digital fjord]

Why do you think a heart is qualified to decide a career?

[light sequoia]

steve jobs said it not me
ask him

[digital fjord]

Is your worldview based on out of context quotes from rich people?

[fringe sphinx]

Easy for a billionaire to say.

[proven crest]

But you also have to balance that with a logical process that will lead to where you want to be

[fringe sphinx]

Let them eat cake!

[light sequoia]

we live once so lets follow something we like there is no return button the only thing remain for u guys is regret

[light sequoia]

who told you logic and gave you idea of logic

[fringe sphinx]

Have a nice day!

[proven crest]

Most things in life are a logical process

[light sequoia]

why you think i a saying nonesense

[light sequoia]

society say what is logic

because of that we fail

[fringe sphinx]

I’m just disengaging from this unproductive conversation

[white relic]

How many other people who had the ego, training, and connections of Steve Jobs in the 1970s or '80s did not become billionaires? Is his success really the result of a unique combination of factors in him personally that you could emulate if you have the right attitude? Or was it the consequence of being in the right place at the right time? If you reran a perfect simulation of the 20th century 100 times somebody like Steve Jobs would always emerge. But it wouldn't always be Steve Jobs

[hearty island]

guys let’s hope i can get past this amazon assessment

[light sequoia]

i hope u reach ur goal

[fringe sphinx]

I sure hope so.

[light sequoia]

the only thing i can advise you is to follow your heart no matter what cause we live once lets live without regret

[proven crest]

In my opinion following your heart and taking a logical and planned approach to reaching your destination aren’t different things. One is just more likely to succeed.

[true harness]

why not just take a logical and planned approach to what your heart wants to do

[proven crest]

That’s exactly what I mean

[white relic]

Personally my heart wants to eat ice cream and watch TV all day

[light sequoia]

true but society is thinking about money not ourselves

[true harness]

of course, the logical way to sustainably do that is to have a job that pays well and doesn't take too much of your time

[light sequoia]

that is called something dopamine wants not us

[white relic]

If you redefine want to mean something other than what one wants, I think this conversation is over

[proven crest]

I’m starting to see the effects of influencers on society and it’s pretty scary

[fringe sphinx]

I wouldn’t mind some bbq too

[light sequoia]

guys please wait let me tell exact thing

[hearty island]

bbq is banging, especially in austin where i’m going next week

[light sequoia]

that is something our comfort zone wants and our dream doesn't want that if it want i am sorry to tell you that it is ur laziness

[hearty island]

i do miss a friday of work tho

[white relic]

Texas BBQ is my favorite

[hearty island]

yo same it was fantastic when i went the meat fell off the bone and it was so tender

[fringe sphinx]

This is also my very amateur hobby. If this software thing doesn’t work out, I’ll open a bbq food truck

[light sequoia]

you guys are telling because u leave in wealthiest country of course there is no motivation to follow ur dream when you hve everything

[hearty island]

bro wdym, i’ve been applying for jobs like 30-40 a day 😭. anyone in this channel can tell you about how crazy i am with applications

[light sequoia]

u guys have only job problem

[true harness]

have you heard of the term, "income disparity"

[light sequoia]

yeah people fight for thier wants and never understand other people

do you think in afghanistan how many people die from starvation

lebonan plaestine it easy to tallk but nobody have a courage to leave situation i am

[digital fjord]

Please keep this channel on topic. Of course the channel about the careers will focus on jobs specifically.

[light sequoia]

but i knew there was a reason i born and i want fulfill my dream

[plush summit]

Maybe you should be a politician 🧐😆

[light sequoia]

we all live and die but the thing is what we will remain here for the people and what we take is important if we only get a job and eat sleep and work what is difference between us and pig

[white relic]

Don't take it personally. You have a lot of discipline to stick with it the way you have. Discipline will take you farther than motivation in the long term.

[hearty island]

thank you!!

[light sequoia]

may i ask do u starve to death?

i don't know if tomorrow i am going to be alive or not and u r asking u get crazy without an job

[hearty island]

huh?

damn, my work account has been locked ever since i left the company and only my manager can unlock it but i don't have her # only her email

[ivory sluice]

let's keep the channel focused on career-related topics and endeavors

[hearty island]

ugh i got so excited about uhg bc it said "updated nov 9," but it still says nothing 😦

[white relic]

A lot of offices are closed today in the US for veteran's day

[hearty island]

kinda worried atm

[hearty island]

hm, so you're saying i might hear back next week?

[white relic]

Could be. I wouldn't expect much activity today

[hearty island]

yeah, i didn't wake up to a stream of rejections today either. it has to be bc of that

[fringe sphinx]

Also, be prepared for a slowdown after Thanksgiving, as we head into holiday season

[hearty island]

i’ve already actually noticed a slowdown

[white relic]

I knew someone in college whose application got lost when the recruiter he had been talking to left the company over the holidays.
Figured he lost it and kept applying, then in like April they called him back "so... are you still interested?"

[hearty island]

i'm half expecting this to happen to me

or maybe i won't get a response at all, lol

[brazen island]

One of my colleagues joined our org like 5-6 years ago. She applied, interview was bad. She waited for months and then just sent an e-mail with "... can I get feedback?" and then they responded with "sure, can you start on monday please" 💀

[marble sun]

target:
  building efficient server-side applications
  integrating front-end components into applications
  checking code from other developers and coaching junior team members
past role:
  solid exp as python developer
  experience with python frameworks(Django, flask, bottle)
  familiar with AWS and REST API
  understanding of db and SQL
  Knowledge of js and the Angular JS framework
  attention to detail
  leadership skills
  BSc in Computer Science, Engineering or relevant field

[white relic]

Are you looking for career advice?

The channel isn't for recruitment but advice and résumé feedback are things we often do

[marble sun]

👍

@white relic can you accept my fr?

[white relic]

I don't usually friend people I don't know

If you want advice, probably better will be to ask it in the channel

[marble sun]

good

im looking for your advice

[white relic]

On what in particular?

[marble sun]

on rules to make a new friends

python is my friend but at first i am unfamiliar with this programming lang

same rule working in our life

[clear sparrow]

Hello

[marble sun]

yup, bluepirate

good nickname

[solemn lynx]

hey

[clear sparrow]

How do I contribute to open source projects as a beginner. I mean any beginner friendly project

[peak halo]

look at open source repos on github and look for issues tagged "good first issue"

[pine sleet]

!contrib we've a handful of open source projects here you can contribute to

[inner wren]

Contribute to Python Discord's open source projects

Looking to contribute to Open Source Projects for the first time? Want to add a feature or fix a bug on the bots on this server? We have on-going projects that people can contribute to, even if you've never contributed to open source before!

Projects to Contribute to
• Sir Lancebot - our fun, beginner-friendly bot
• Python - our utility & moderation bot
• Site - resources, guides, and more

Where to start

1. Read our contribution guide
2. Chat with us in #dev-contrib if you're ready to jump in or have any questions
3. Open an issue or ask to be assigned to an issue to work on

[upper ruin]

should I learn Django to start as an intern?

or just python + DSA is suffice?

[peak halo]

@upper ruin are you currently a university student?

[fathom mirage]

hey am only 15 years old i thought i'd start to learn Python so i can go for "Program engeneer" but when i see videos online i only see stuff like how to calculate numbers, create an input, and do simple codes based off that. i am basically wondering if i should lay off Python learning till i start studying it in school or is it just me still not understanding how useful these things are?

[white relic]

Sounds about right for beginner tutorials. you have to walk before you can run

There are lots of resources out there for using Python in web development or games or what have you. But you still want to learn basics first

[silk rose]

What is a good first issue?

[gritty rivet]

An issue that's good to start with when it's your first one

[marsh siren]

Hello

[silk rose]

I did not know about it, thank you. And what is your advice how to search for one? I mean I find them, but most people seem to cover it. Do you pick only ones with zero replies?

[marsh siren]

So, the thing I want to discuss is I'm currently at a foundation year on my university, next year hopefully I will be able to study my course, I have two courses that I want to switch into, one of which is Software engineering, the other is AI, I believe that the AI is the best choice I want to take, the problem is that they focus on math, I don't hate math but if it gets complicated then I need to do extra work in order to understand it, the question I want to make is what math is involved in Artifical Intallgance? And how can I study it so that I can get a solid ground on it before my course start? For reference I'm a beginner in Python, and 0 knowledge in math.

[white relic]

AI is a very math heavy field. Probably one of the most math-heavy areas of CS. But your university program will teach you all the math they require you to know if you decide on that

Getting a head start on that I don't really know where you'd start. Matrices, I guess, and linear algebra?

[marsh siren]

Yes they would, but I want to learn it until the time comes when I fully study it, is there anyway to study the math and it's implementation in programming before that time comes?

[white relic]

Not really my area of expertise, I operate down an abstraction layer or seven

[marsh siren]

Thanks for your help

[silk rose]

I don't understand now you problem. You says on one hand you have knowledge in math, on the other not

[regal axle]

Some companies and apps claim that they prefer people who have contributed to open source programs.

Do companies actually care about this? Is this something that looks favorable on an applicant? Like lets say 2 people do the same amount of work but one was for open source and one was not; will this actually make a difference? Things along that line

[gritty rivet]

Depends on the resume, depends on the hiring manager... I wouldn't overthink it in the abstract, but if you're resume is lacking something then open source contributions might be one good way to improve it

[pine sleet]

It could, depends like dowcet mentioned. Though it can never hurt to contribute to open source. Teaches a lot of skills - teamwork, communication, working with version control effectively

[gritty rivet]

Adding a bit more... On the one hand paid work experience generally counts for more, not less, but on the other having some open source volunteer contributions in addition to that may show a special kind of enthusiasm that some managers may favor, especially if you lack more formal experience

[vapid jay]

Gaia

[carmine wedge]

what happened to netfilterqueue?

[summer roost]

!rule 6 9

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[summer roost]

We don't allow soliciting work here, so I'll be deleting your messages.

[autumn hearth]

question? i am an intermidet developer. i want to know which is most popular library to make softwares. I tried Pyside6, Tkinter, CTK. I am 13 Year Old...

!rule 69

[inner wren]

:x: Invalid rule indices: 69

[summer roost]

this is the career discussion channel. You're looking for #python-discussion

[autumn hearth]

ok

[teal cargo]

(I dont like data and graphs)
i dont know what career path to go into
i like normal python coding to automate things and such, what can i do (I only know python coding and little html)
and what will i have to learn for that career

[young zenith]

.

[indigo locust]

去接一些案子来做吧

[white relic]

!rule English

[inner wren]

Rules

4. Use English to the best of your ability. Be polite if someone speaks English imperfectly.

[indigo locust]

I'm in the same situation as you

[teal cargo]

wdym take some cases to work on?

[wispy bear]

I am a sophomore data science student, I tried ds but becuase of maths and stuff I want to switch career I am interested in cyber security and block chain development I know bit c and python can anyone suggest what career path would be good for me I dont like math tho

[teal cargo]

(I dont like data and graphs)
i dont know what career path to go into
i like normal python coding to automate things and such, what can i do (I only know python coding and some html)
and what will i have to learn for that career

[karmic merlin]

!warn 1099725331595800648 Don't post unapproved advertisements in our server. We are not an ad board so don't use us as such.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @wheat galleon.

[gritty rivet]

Possibilities are endless. Look at the job market in your area and see what's available.

Do you have a degree already? If not I would focus on that because it's going to open up more career opportunities then anything else you can do

[buoyant seal]

Everyone makes their own choice, but I would probably somewhat discourage chosen paths may be

Cyber Security in modern understanding is extension of DevOps engineering, which is very not very beginning direction in the first place. Final job role is supposed to be DevSecOps.

Block chain development is usually happening in jobs very often of very scammy sector. kind of . It is not very safe bet to do in my opinion.

There are regular career paths like
Desktop dev, Android dev, backend dev, embedded dev or Data engineer

P.s. u could try to rush to DevOps direction and from there into Cyber Security? With a starting point from Backend

[spiral bear]

can anyone give me advice for sites where i can get significant python certification

[hearty island]

depending on where you are, python certs aren't as useful

[near ocean]

There is no such thing, a degree is what you want

[spiral bear]

does w3schools is good for studying

[near ocean]

Not really

[hearty island]

no w3 schools is really not it, i'd recommend one of these:

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[near ocean]

The only people that value w3schools is w3schools themselves

[spiral bear]

thanks for advice

[hearty island]

np

[spiral bear]

What you thinking about university diploma?Can someone get job without this diploma?

[hearty island]

it will be substantially harder without a diploma

[pine sleet]

You will most likely want a bachelor's in computer science (or similar) if you're going into the job market in the U.S

Not sure what you mean by "diploma" here, like an associate's?

[spiral bear]

sorry i mean bachelor's degrees

[hearty island]

i would highly recommend a bachelor's degree in CS along with a few internships. it would greatly help your chances of getting a job.

[pine sleet]

then yes. if it's at all possible for you to get a BS CS you should go for it

Even if you're not in a financial position to pay for one, there are many government programs (like FAFSA) and scholarships available to greatly reduce the price

[hearty island]

try to keep your gpa above a 3.5, but also make sure you emphasize internships

[spiral bear]

i have much years before i go to study in university.I only want to know more info for these thing

[turbid bobcat]

im on 50 probs solved of the leetcode-150

[vapid jay]

@spiral bear I don't have alot of knowledge in computer science field but I will ltell get as much experience as possible half the time the jobs I apply to could careless about my finance degree to be honest they are mostly looking for experience and on top of that even companies like Walmart have lowered there requirements. Just food for thought I'm very curious what companies will do in the next couple of decades because they have also talked about lower standards for doctors.

[spiral bear]

when you think is recommended to start learning programming.

[lean tulip]

I'm currently learning python from self what should I use -

1. vscode
2. pycharm community edition

[near ocean]

Doesnt matter, use whichever you like more

[spiral bear]

i mean which age

[lean tulip]

I like pycharm more, but some people hate it, any ideas why?

vscode to me feels a bit bad in terms of the UI compared to pycharm which has a soothing UI and good icons and overall experience imo

[pine sleet]

No better time than now

[gusty kindle]

i like pycharm but vscode is my daily use due to my school making me use that lol

[lean tulip]

which one do u personally use @near ocean

[pine sleet]

Personal reasons. It doesn't matter - use whatever you like. Maybe they don't like Pycharm's UI like you don't like VSCode's UI

[lean tulip]

I like vscode's UI but if u see, pycharm has smaller icons and they look more "modern" and clean to me

[near ocean]

I use vscode but others in the team use other editors

[pine sleet]

To you, sure. Maybe someone else doesn't like the icons and they think Pycharm doesn't look modern so they don't use it

[lean tulip]

what's ur personal prefernce robin 😊

[pine sleet]

I use neovim

[lean tulip]

oh

damn