career-advice

[peak halo]

I'm not really sure. At some point I need to ask my boss what he would think about an applicant with a "master's in artificial intelligence". Because those degree programs are very new.

Data science should be math heavy. The problem is that all of these AI/ML/DS domains have only recently become popular, so there haven't been distinct degrees for them until recently.

[tulip quiver]

and for data science they only have online option

but also when i look at the course syllabus its stuffs that i already kno w

[peak halo]

You might not know it as well as you think you do.

I published as an undergraduate and have been working in industry for two years, but I'm still getting sucker punched by the ML theory course I'm taking right now.

[tulip quiver]

lol what are you taking?

[peak halo]

ML theory. Like I said.

[tulip quiver]

i mean like a focus on ?

[peak halo]

Starting with perceptrons. But with rigorous proofs for everything.

[unreal turtle]

i messaged someone on linkedin a week ago. should i follow up with that person today?

[peak halo]

I don't think you even can without Premium--what did you message them about?

[unreal turtle]

that doesnt make any sense

[peak halo]

your deleted message contained a relevant detail. If you're already connected, then you can message them multiple times. But I believe the platform only lets you send one opener to non-connections.

People still need to know what you messaged them about to give you a useful suggestion.

[unreal turtle]

im talking about the person i am connected to lol, im just asking if it was appropriate to follow up after 1 week of not messaging her from my last message?

[peak halo]

what was the last message about?

[unreal turtle]

why does that matter?

[peak halo]

I'm withdrawing from this exchange.

[true harness]

it would help to know what you might be following up on

[unreal turtle]

im just telling the person that my plans has changed and i wanna be rereferred for a different position?

[true harness]

so was that your last message? or the one you want to send now

[unreal turtle]

the last message

[modern ore]

Whats good trameski, how is your internship at jane street

[barren marsh]

Should I consider coding in godot, unreal engine, or unity for esay detection of my coding language?

[peak halo]

Sorry, what is esay detection of a coding language?

[barren marsh]

Such as with godot you need to install a maze of files for it to simply detect the C++ language & I was wondering which alternative would be best to pivot on to avoid that?

or are all of them like that?

[peak halo]

You're probably not going to get a super informed answer here, since professional game development isn't typically done in python. Unity and Unreal are the most popular game engines.

[eager jungle]

Hmm, you mean by easy error detection?

[barren marsh]

So when I go into godot it doesn't appear with a selection for which language I am going to use such as, when I go into godot it only appears one language. It does not give a selection for c, c#, c++, python, etc. Which are the compatible languages for the engine. There is a way to implement the language but it has to do with downloading core files consisting of the language injection within your system & all these other long processes & downloads. My question in sum is would unreal engine or unity be the best option for me to just be able to go in & write code in comparison to godot where all these extra steps are involved in order to simply just begin scripting?

[gritty rivet]

What sort of jobs are you looking for, what skills are they looking for, and how does that compare to what skills you have already demonstrated in your portfolio?

You could pick any framework you want to learn off a list of the most popular ones but that's not necessarily the best use of your time. Employers care more about your actual skills (clean code, testing, documentation) then they do about specific technologies or frameworks you've worked with

[civic isle]

Thank you(:

[lapis wave]

I want to go into the robotics field (probably engineering or programming side). I’ve seen python used for that so fat, but what other languages are used frequently in robotics? (Or is python like the main thing)

[deft herald]

If you want to program robotics, you'll probably want to learn embedded C

and/or C++

[elfin abyss]

C, C++, Rust, etc etc are more common

Languages that you can use with embedded systems

[smoky quest]

That has nothing to do with this channel and would be more appropriate in an off topic channel.

With regards to godot specifically, I would suggest with their default language (gdscript) which is pretty close to python

[lilac horizon]

Why in many job descriptions there are so many skills required , which are not even related to the role ? It is just impossible for someone to have all of those ! !

[kindred oyster]

python is used usually for high level systems (where a SBC like raspberry pi is used as brains)

but vast majority of microcontrollers are still programmed using C/C++

so, if you had to choose one over the other i would suggest C/C++

[summer roost]

they're generally not actually requirements, they're a hiring manager's mental model of what a perfect candidate would look like. The more of those boxes you check, the more easily they can picture you filling the role. That doesn't mean someone missing a lot of those won't be the best candidate - they just won't be what the hiring manager originally pictured.

[lilac horizon]

So on what basis they shortlist resume? no of boxes checked or the quality.. like i have heard that most of them just do a search query and select those matching with the keywords

[modern ore]

@summer roost i have a phone tommrow, any advice for prepping for it? @summer roost @smoky quest

[smoky quest]

Do you have a concrete example?

As a rule of thumb, jobs would list skills that would be relevant to the job

[smoky quest]

sleep early, drink enough water and do some jumping jack to get the blood flowing and be energetic

[modern ore]

Nah i mean prepping specifically tailored for the phone so I can get to the final rounds so I dont get rejected before

[summer roost]

if someone checks more of the boxes, they're more likely to get an interview than someone who checks fewer - but that doesn't mean that someone who checks fewer has no chance. Think about it this way: for 1 open position, there might be 500 applicants who apply, the hiring manager might skim through 100 resumes, and pick 10 to interview. If 1 of those 10 seems worth hiring they might get hired, and otherwise the hiring manager might go back and pick another 10 to interview. Something like that. Those numbers are a bit fudged, but they give you a rough idea of the scale. Not every resume gets read, but a lot do, and the candidates selected to be interviewed are the ones that the hiring manager thinks represent the best chance of succeeding in the role.

[summer roost]

is it phone, or video conference?

[modern ore]

phone interview like 20 mins type

people have been getting rejected after so i am kinda scared, I wanna make sure I do well enough to pass

[summer roost]

huh. That's both very short, and an odd choice of format. My guess is that it will be very easy to pass. They likely will ask you 1 leetcode style question, I'm guessing.

[modern ore]

its not lc, its just "behavioral" type

[summer roost]

in any event, general interview advice: don't pretend you know something you don't, and if your interviewer suggests an approach to you, or suggests that your approach might have some problems, listen.

[summer roost]

oh. Huh. Well, couldn't say, I've never been subjected to one of those (and I think at this point in my career I'd just outright refuse, heh)

[modern ore]

its for a huge tech company 🤔 i just dont wanna mess up and get rejected 😭

[summer roost]

🤷‍♂️ There's lots of huge tech companies I would never work for

[modern ore]

I would no offers rn 🛌

[smoky quest]

there isn't much to prepare since they are gonna probe about your experience

and rehearsing typical questions might make you appear too prepared

[modern ore]

TRUE, maybe I should think about what i did, and be ready to answer questions about my experience and why i want to work there?

[summer roost]

if it's just "tell me about you" type questions, that's one thing. If it's "what would you do if you found out a coworker was stealing" type questions, nah, that ain't for me 😄

I guess "behavioral" can mean different things

[smoky quest]

if it's behavioral, it will be more about "tell me about a time when you had some issues working with a workmate or groupmate at school on a project"

[modern ore]

Any advice on how to answer tell me about you

[modern ore]

I kind of feel its like that 🤔 but I suck at those when i help people, i just give out the answer

[smoky quest]

how can you suck at those?

[modern ore]

i dont have experience like dat 😹

[summer roost]

The usual advice is to have a narrative in your head about what makes you a good choice, and spend a few seconds thinking about how to tie the question to the story you want to tell

[modern ore]

🤔

[smoky quest]

that's fine. Not having experience with something doesn't mean you failed. It means you didn't have experience about that

[summer roost]

For a concrete example, maybe you want to find a way to say that you're good at resolving conflicts between others, and maybe they ask "tell me about a time when you struggled to meet a deadline", or something like that. You might specifically decide to talk about a group school project where some members weren't pulling their weight and you needed to help mediate things to get everyone pulling together

it won't be exactly that of course, but that's a sort of example of how you can tie the things that they asked about back to the story about yourself that you wanted to tell

[fast notch]

anyone else use pygame?

[kindred oyster]

read channel description
for general python discussion #python-discussion is better place
and for help - #❓｜how-to-get-help

[gritty rivet]

I'm sure some people in #game-development do

[true harness]

everyone has group projects though. even if you've never had conflict with group members, you could talk about what you did to avoid conflict, e.g. decision-making/leadership skills

[spare mortar]

I think ROS is used in many robotics companies and is in Python - www.ros.org

And they have some very cool tutorials, a virtual robot, adaptations for cheaper robots, etc

[fringe sphinx]

I'm echoing what others have said: you want to prepare a few good answers to general stuff like: "tell me about a difficult problem you had to overcome". Interviewers are really looking for engagement: for you to tell them about yourself. They're just giving you a prompt to start from. It's not that they actually care about the difficult problem... but they want to see you: talk, explain yourself, shed some light into your personality (and maturity), etc.

[fringe sphinx]

I've been doing this a long time, and I would struggle with coming up with great answers to these questions without preparation (I would most likely ramble for a while before I found/remembered the entire story). Don't ad-lib it: prepare a few good stories. Maybe they won't ask you directly, and you can work them into the conversation.

[flat epoch]

I'm trying to find a summer 2024 cybersecurity internship for my college. I have applied to multiple internships and so far four of them have refused to put forward my application. Do you guys know any websites that have cyber security internships?

[pearl apex]

i need help converting line 6

[fringe sphinx]

Wrong channel, #python-discussion is for general help and topics

[pearl apex]

yeah this is general help

[kindred oyster]

but the channel you are asking in is wrong

[pearl apex]

ok sorry

[gritty rivet]

LinkedIn, Indeedz Handshake. Also talk to your classmates, professors and your college's career center

[pine sleet]

!rule 9 6

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[modern ore]

@fringe sphinx i did it but I stuttered 😭

[fringe sphinx]

Awesome, don’t stress that… we’re engineers, not sales people, they expect nervousness

[gleaming wren]

I’m in class called Computer Vision. There’s a lot of math. I can’t understood the material. I can’t follow in class. I can’t understand why and how the math works. Book is long and has complicated text. Idk I need smth easy to understand like for complete beginners who are not experts at math. If u have any tips or resources, I’d really appreciate it

[fringe sphinx]

Drop the class? That happened to me once, was a split math/cs class.The prof didn’t even try to teach at our level.

[gleaming wren]

I don’t wanna give up just yet. My grade is not bad rn

[fringe sphinx]

What kind of math?

Maybe hit the #data-science-and-ml channel for suggestions relating to the math?

Is it mostly linear algebra stuff?

[gleaming wren]

Um idk how to explain. It has 3d graphs and summation and matrices. I've taken linear algebra and found it straightforward. But this - idk it's just hard to understand

[fringe sphinx]

Maybe post a few examples in that channel, there’s a bunch of folks who can probably point you at a good reference or tutorial or something.

[cobalt moat]

i honestly hate college, what would you guys say about me dropping out and taking the offer i got for a full time internship? Im a freshmen with comp sci experience

how would it effect my future employment with me having internship experience but no degree

[celest kite]

The employer would quite likely revoke the internship offer once they find out you dropped out.

[cobalt moat]

no its with the understanding that i am dropping out take it

[true harness]

internships are temporary though, typically 12-16 weeks. was this an actual full time offer or just an internship? but as someone i know likes to say, dropping out is not the path that will lead to the most money and opportunities

[cobalt moat]

1 year internship and possible employment after

[celest kite]

So basically a year of cheap labor

[cobalt moat]

yes

[true harness]

i was somewhat in the same situation. what do you dislike about college?

[cobalt moat]

so far the honors program is a complete scam, im being overcharged for everything, im not learning anything, and it is beyond clear that the university does not care about students and wants to profit

all ive gotten are social experiences and thats not why i went to college

[true harness]

hm. that sucks. why not try to go ahead if you're not learning anything? talk to professors and see what they can do. if not, you can always try to extend what you're learning in class, or just make your own projects

[cobalt moat]

ive tried to do that already'

i cant skip classes and im already doing personal projects but the personal projects do not make up for the time and money im wasting on the classes

i dont want to have 80k in loans after 4 years for absolutely nothing

i understand im only a freshmen and i know that i will learn stuff later in my junior and senior years but idk if thats worth wasting 2 years and a ton of money

arguably i would learn more in 1 year of internship than 4 years of college

[fringe sphinx]

I'll give you my old man advice: If you want the big bucks, get a degree. Not having a degree will close a lot of doors for you: even if you have the same information and experience.

[cobalt moat]

why cant i make big bucks without degree

[fringe sphinx]

Most of the employers / hiring managers here (myself included) rarely consider resumes without a degree.

[cobalt moat]

isnt working experience more valuable than a degree

[fringe sphinx]

At least for SWE positions. Secondly: There is a lot to learn, you need a wide foundation, and you're not going to get that just by entering the workforce. Do you want the be the carpenter or the carpenters boss?

Finally: There's a lot that you will need to learn on your own. Four years is a good amount of time to be great, rather than just a code monkey.

[cobalt moat]

so then how do i fix my current issue

[true harness]

you might learn more practical skills, that is definitely true. but college will give you a wide theoretical base, which you probably wouldn't get at work

[fringe sphinx]

And my last dad comment: If you go into the classes miserable, you probably won't get much out of them. This isn't high school: nobody cares if you learn the material or not. But if you maximize the opportunity: learn for the sake of learning, you'll be better for it.

[true harness]

i was in a similar situation to you last year. while i don't think that my school doesn't care about us, i kinda just suck it up. the debt is a legitimate concern, but at your age (at least, i assume you're like 19ish), the degree ends up being more valuable

[cobalt moat]

there is nothing in these classes im learning

[fringe sphinx]

What classes are you taking?

[pine sleet]

not with that attitude

[true harness]

just use class time to work on your projects then

[cobalt moat]

programming 1 and calc 2 and then a whole bunch of other waste of time electives

[fringe sphinx]

And how many weeks in are you?

[cobalt moat]

ive looked at the syllabus its all basic stuff..... ive been programming for 4 years already i dont need a programming 1 class

[fringe sphinx]

You should've taken AP CS then 🙂

[cobalt moat]

i did but AP doesnt transfer according to this univeristy

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, that sucks. rip. But, I get it. First half freshman year sucks. It does get better.

[true harness]

it is the case that many schools don't take ap credit for major courses

[cobalt moat]

how does it get better

[fringe sphinx]

Mind sharing your university? I want to look at their curriculum

[true harness]

classes get more fun. you can also try graduating early

[cobalt moat]

double majoring in math, 4 years is early

[fringe sphinx]

This major? https://engr.ku.edu/computer-science-curriculum-2023-2024

[true harness]

a strange choice if you hate college

[cobalt moat]

yes

this class alone cost me over 1000 dollars

[fringe sphinx]

You've got to admit, junior/senior year classes look interesting.

[cobalt moat]

sure but they are unneeded

[fringe sphinx]

sophomore isn't too bad, although I find it weird that DSA is spring sophomore

[fringe sphinx]

What do you think software engineers do?

[cobalt moat]

program software, ive talked to several software engineers and never have they used upper level calculus

[fringe sphinx]

I spend a very small percentage of my day "writing code".

[true harness]

looks like they start with discrete structures 3rd semester. calc 3 being required is a bit 🥴 though

[cobalt moat]

opening tickets, fixing bugs, closing tickets, reviewing others code, listning to client needs, planning objectives, writing 5 lines of code

[fringe sphinx]

I'm good because I know a lot. A lot about a lot.

[cobalt moat]

so how am i suppose to afford this

i paid 2k in fees alone this semester

[fringe sphinx]

I mean, this is discord. We can't answer that. We can just comment on the purpose of college and university/etc.

If you're struggling, I really think you should talk to someone who knows your personal situation.

[pine sleet]

Did you apply to financial aid services?

[true harness]

loans are a decent option. have you looked into scholarships or need based grants?

[cobalt moat]

if i had daddy paying for my college like everyone else here i wouldnt care about getting a "Free A" class but im paying an obscene amount of money for it

[vapid jay]

What are the advantage to do java python and c++?

[cobalt moat]

my finances put me into an a really grey area where i am just royally ######

[pine sleet]

🤔

[cobalt moat]

java is old and used extensively, python is easy to learn, c++ is for people that hate being alive and companies who dont want to hire someone to rewrite their codebase into something modern

[cobalt moat]

i have, nobody cares

[true harness]

even college counselors? that's kind of their whole job

[cobalt moat]

i talk to advisors and finaid people and they just say "go to scholarship universe" Do you know how many $500 scholarships i need to pay my tuition? 160. Do you know how many are offered to nonreligious straight white males? 0

[fringe sphinx]

I'm genuinely concerned for you. I was giving you the factual answers, but now I realize you're trying to convince yourself of a conclusion. I have a different answer for these situations:

[cobalt moat]

ik and i appreciate your knowledge sorry that its coming off differently im just mad and scared for my future

[fringe sphinx]

Not everyone has the privilege or opportunity to complete a 4 year degree. There are many paths into and many jobs in tech, and people take a variety of paths to get there. I didn't take a straight path either: I didn't complete my degree in 4 years (there was a detour in the middle). If you go a different path, choose a path that allows you to keep learning... such as via evening courses/etc. Work experience + eventually getting a degree is also a good strategy.

[gritty rivet]

How much student loan debt do you have? Unless it's well into the 6 figures I wouldn't worry... what seems like a lot of money to you now will not be when you have a degree and a few years of experience.

If your school is really hat terrible but you can get good grades, transfer is an option

[cobalt moat]

about 80k at the end of my 4 years which is gonna turn into 140k total with interest

[cobalt moat]

nowhere to transfer to. I cant afford out of state tuition

[floral elk]

I just started my first job out of school as QA - If anyone has any resources that they think might help it would be very much appreciated! 😄 We're using Azure DevOps

[knotty rose]

can somone help me

idk when this infraction gets expired

[fringe sphinx]

You should message modmail

[knotty rose]

message modmail

in bot cmds?

[fringe sphinx]

Congrats, there's a lot of folks here who ask about other starting jobs (besides software engineering)! Would love to hear your experience... altho I don't know much about Azure DevOps.

[fringe sphinx]

Send a DM to <at> ModMail

[peak halo]

@knotty rose send a message to @severe widget

[knotty rose]

thank you ppl

[wide drum]

https://discordapp.com/channels/879589996544262205/953887890314764338/1141366857006329976

[knotty oar]

Hi guys, iam an intermediate developer in python can i find any relevant requirements on fiverr for freelancing?

[muted bridge]

should i be listing projects that are still works in progress on my resume?

[muted bridge]

assuming I’ve gotten pretty far into the project and I won’t finish in time for an internship application

[smoky quest]

what matters are the 👏 demonstrated 👏 skills 👏 , not how complete it is

[muted bridge]

how can I demonstrate the skills on an unfinished project? or are you talking about technical interviews

[smoky quest]

What are you trying to demonstrate with that project?

[muted bridge]

working knowledge with fullstack development

• leadership and collaboration skills

[smoky quest]

so does completing your project would demonstrate fullstack skills whereas an incomplete one would not?
For instance, if you want to demonstrate that you know things about databases, the thing that matters are where you 👏 demonstrate 👏 your 👏 database 👏 skills 👏 and having a finished project or not would be irrelevant.
In addition, something "finished" is not as easy to determine as there can always be something to add or enhance

[muted bridge]

alright, thanks

[smoky quest]

np.
As a rule of thumb, no one will care about the nature of your project, as long as it's not too unprofessional, or whether or not it's completed.
People will care about the 👏 demonstrated 👏 skills 👏 and will try to project the code they see into how you would work if you were to be hired.

[smoky quest]

<@&831776746206265384> ads

[dapper depot]

!rule 6
@lost schooner

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

[narrow echo]

where is the channel for help ?

[tender frost]

Read through #❓｜how-to-get-help

[copper otter]

can soemone help on #1151828426194427954

[livid nebula]

is data scientist intern open in many office in general ??

[subtle escarp]

I have small python project.
Who can help me?

[fringe sphinx]

Just ask the question in #python-discussion

[sonic inlet]

Hey guys
I built a full stack react python e-commerce webapp that looks great and I'm going to sell cheap to small businesses around town (restaurants, clothing, etc...)while being upfront that the website will probably be outdated in 2-4 years
It is fully customable and very easy to understand.
Would you guys say 4k$ per sell is selling short or reasonable?
Also will selling those give me hands on experience if I want to skip jr positions?
Here is my link if interested:
https://restaurant-front.greendesert-bb778444.germanywestcentral.azurecontainerapps.io/

Logged in managers can change the app style theme at any time and fully edit the home screen items/categories themselves

[fringe sphinx]

I dunno, I doubt anyone here can comment on how much you can charge. When selling software: sell the "service", not merely the software. A business won't even know what to do with some website... but, if you set it up, customize it, etc, you can generally sell for more money.

[fringe sphinx]

I don't know what you mean by "skip jr positions". Doubtful. One great project or side gig isn't the same as working as a SWE in a corporate job.

[sonic inlet]

True I'm really new to this world and I even made another webapp I wanna push as a startup I thought maybe some live projects with actual users might pump my CV enough to skip Jr positions

[fringe sphinx]

I wouldn't worry so much about titles. There's a wide range of "jr" positions... some better than others, and some pay very well. More experience and better projects should make it easier to land a higher quality first job.

And engineering is very much a meritocracy... if you're good and prepared, people will recognize that.

[sonic inlet]

That's cool, just the anxiety of what they might ask me daily pushed me to learn as much as possible..😅

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, there's so many ways to succeed, just make sure you're learning something new every day! (but don't stress it.. it's not a race)

[buoyant seal]

So, you've built CMS then.
There are great community supported solutions like Wagtail in python https://wagtail.org/
or more word wide known wordpress..
They are offered for free 😄

At my country we have proprietary sold Bitrix that does similar though (people resell it for less than 1000-2000$ usually)

[sonic inlet]

See.. that is something my dad as a pizza owner can not operate, it might be easy for us but boomers might be intimidated... My manager page is as simple as they get a "change color theme" button and 3 forms to add categories, items, and extras for those items like toppings or whatever.
That seems a bit less overwhelming

[fringe sphinx]

That's why I said offer a service, rather than "software". A rest owner probably doesn't want to think about this stuff, they want someone else to do it.

[sonic inlet]

With this page they won't need my help at all.. they can update their inventory any time

Sure could use some more style work but for a 3 months project... I'm pumped 😁

[buoyant seal]

Someone still needs to keep deployment running and databse maintained 😉
and code working with latest stripe and etc, maintenance effort.
verifying that no new unexpected errors happen, catch them with some stuff like sentry and processing preferaby

[sonic inlet]

That's why the low low price I'll make sure they understand I'm not maintaining it and it will stop working after 2-4 years with a 1 year warranty or something

A small business can make some money in 2 years I guess 2k a piece might be reasonable 🤔

[fringe sphinx]

"The Bitterness of Poor Quality Remains Long After the Sweetness of Low Price is Forgotten"

[sonic inlet]

I do have some more bugs to fix but it's almost done and I can focus on UI UX more

[true harness]

why not maintain it and make more money and get more experience?

[buoyant seal]

well, in my opinion it is completely irresponsible to sell software that u aren't maintaing in any way.
U are either supposed to provide high quality stuff offered for other devs, still maintained though and developed, processing Github issues. It is fair to say u aren't going to be responsible for deployments here then.
or u are supposed to sell smth u a going to maintain for non devs. Completely full inclusive solution.

Selling in not maintainable way sounds like a scam to me 😄 (or at least very immature)

[sonic inlet]

I'm from Israel for a small business here a website or an app is way out of their league if I advertise it well and give 10% to anyone who can sell it for me I want to sell as many as possible.. I won't be able to maintain this many websites at the same time

[true harness]

surely it's trivial to manage if you only have a few crud operations 🤔

[sonic inlet]

I will maintain 1 of them for my dad's pizza place so I will have patches I might sell to customers in the future or updates and such

Again my offer for him is 2 years of being online selling He's inventory for 2k once and whatever the cloud ask for per month

[silver crest]

!package discord

[inner wren]

discord v2.3.2

A mirror package for discord.py. Please install that instead.

[inland kettle]

accidentally sent that sry

[somber pawn]

Could you recommend any books that can help me with physics in terms of electronics engineering?

[buoyant seal]

https://www.amazon.com/Manga-Guide-Physics-Hideo-Nitta/dp/1593271964

https://media.tenor.com/CpxGZfS5yykAAAAM/alice-in-wonderland-cat.gif

[somber pawn]

Are you joking, or is it really a good book?

[buoyant seal]

i can say that at least "The manga guide to databases" from same series is awesome book that helped me to understand SQL better before i dived into more difficult topics.
It explained in a good way normalizations. Recommending it if getting started with databases. (Pretty much can be recommended must have for Juniors to get started 🙂 )
Probably other books from same series are same good to get started. Super brain friendly to get it, helpful for a jump start.
(There are 40 books in this series, including for multiple higher math disciplines (like Linear Algebra, Statistics and etc), could be very useful if u struggle with university math subjects)

[analog stirrup]

What countries do you recommend for doing the college in Europe as a programmer? All the statistics show that Sweden pays the best, but it is very hard to make a living as a student there. Then it's Denmark which seems alike. Those two have free tuition for students. UK is next, but it has very high tuition fees.
What I have heard from a person on this same server is that Belgium has cheap tuition and you can find a job. A friend that went to Netherlands told me that the tuition is cheap, the presence is mandatory only 3 days a week, leaving some time for work. Do you have some suggestions? There are so many countries in eu and so many universities and it is very confusing.

[cobalt moat]

Can I get the pros and cons of dropping in person college after first year, taking internship then finishing degree online

What would the differences be in workload, degree quality, and cost

Sounds like 2 full time jobs unless the online degree has less of the bloat classes

[white relic]

If you're interested in electronics, and only just enough physics to get moving, Practical Electronics for Inventors by Scherz is very good. It is comprehensive but shallow, covers everything from battery types to voltage dividers to logic circuits and how to use an oscilloscope. Not real physics but like... enough theory that you won't get lost.
If you want to get into fundamental physics, unless you're planning to go into superconductor electronics, I can't recommend anything. I kind of stumbled into this field.

[peak halo]

I think it would pretty much be all cons. you would have a hard time finding internships as a non-current student, if you can even find one at all. and by doing the degree online, you'd be foregoing a lot of the opportunities that come from pursuing a degree, which in many ways are more valuable than the actual coursework.

[cobalt moat]

I already have an internship lined up if I drop

And so far I hate in person college

[true harness]

they're expecting you to drop out to take the internship?

[peak halo]

it will probably get better as you get the general education and introductory courses out of the way. and you'll make more connections and find ways to get involved that are advantageous for your career prospects.

I was pretty miserable when I started my CS program, but I got picked up by my department's natural language technology lab, and that gave me an on-campus community and was the basis for my career in that space.

[cobalt moat]

Yes

According to them I’m more qualified than the interns they usually get from college

[cobalt moat]

Can you tell me about your experience with the lab?

[true harness]

why aren't you being hired as a full time employee? internships are different from full time work

[cobalt moat]

The offer is a 1 year internship where I will arguably learn more than 4 years or college and then salary position

[peak halo]

what do you want to know about it? we developed open source software, did research projects, and wrote papers about those projects. and that was like 70% of my resume by the time I was job hunting. And I would expect opportunities like that to be more plentiful in-person.

[cobalt moat]

When did you do it? What was your prior experience, and what doors did it open?

[hollow drum]

Guys is python hard to learn

[cobalt moat]

No it’s the easiest programming language and it’s basically English

[peak halo]

when I was doing my undergrad in CS. I had been a linguistics major before that. There is no chance that I would have my current job (computational linguist) if I had not worked in the lab.

[hollow drum]

I’m debating if I should take computer science course for school but I need a good grade idk if I should do it because I have 0 experience

[somber cipher]

how do i add an indent to an alr written piece of code?

[true harness]

if you're dropping out, why is there an internship at all? plus I would disagree with your assessment of learning. you would be learning different things than in school, not more of the same

[cobalt moat]

Programming 1 is easy A

[peak halo]

with a text editor.

[hollow drum]

No it’s computer science 12

I never done it before tho

[somber cipher]

uh idk what that is, i saw a guy press something and he got an indent where he needed it any idea what?

[peak halo]

computer science courses taught in high school (or whatever mandatory education for teenagers is called in your area) are easy. you'll be fine.

[hollow drum]

Even with 0 experience?

[peak halo]

it was probably tab. this question belongs in #python-discussion though.

[peak halo]

they expect that you have zero experience.

[somber cipher]

sorry thx

[true harness]

ask the teachers about it. we can't really know what it's about

[cobalt moat]

@peak halo how many’s hours per week did the lab take up and did u receive any compensation for it?

[hollow drum]

The cs course I can take it a part 2 I didn’t do part 1

I didn’t do cs 11 but all I can take now is cs 12

[peak halo]

it was ten dollars an hour for maybe ten hours a week. and then one summer I got a grant to do it for 20 hours a week. but the pay wasn't really important--the experience was.

[pine sleet]

!rule 6 please remove this

[inner wren]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

[buoyant seal]

Python is extremely easy to learn basics and starting scriptings or coding any other stuff
Python is hard to master to expert level and doing not a mess in general 😄

Python learning curve in a nutshell

[slate wadi]

I need a business partner

[gritty rivet]

Sounds shady to be honest. If you're going to quit school based on an offer like this you're putting a huge amount of trust in them. And in general recruiters are slime, not to be trusted.

[cobalt moat]

the person is the a senior software engineer who i have known for years

[smoky quest]

you will definitely learn less than 4 years at a college.
Some of the issues are you will not have a degree, unless you work on one later. However chances are that once you get a job, you might not have the will nor the time to get a degree anymore.
It may also take some time to catch to the level of someone having a degree in terms of compensation and responsibilities.

On the pro side, you get your foot in the door in a job. If that job fits your career goals and are motivated, that's an option.
But I would question the motivation of your friend since your career would get more value out of you following through your degree.

[cobalt moat]

he also thinks that a degree is more valuable but he is giving me options because i cant really afford college

[smoky quest]

why don't you work part time there? Like ~10h/week?

[cobalt moat]

10 hours wouldnt even be close to keeping up with tuition

[smoky quest]

What about:

• student loans
• grants
• community colleges

[cobalt moat]

for student loans, ill be paying 1.5x the loan amount in interest on an 80k loan which is a lot but not a deal breaker. The deal breaker is I am just categorically against flushing money down the toilet which is what college feels like.
for grants i dont know much about them but i know they are usually small, extremely competitive, and have all kinds of stipualations.
CC was an option until I looked at the pricing and its only like 25% cheaper and the degree is not as valuable

[smoky quest]

We pay new grads with degrees 150k. Guess how long it takes to repay your 80k loan 😉

[cobalt moat]

5 years

also 150k sounds really high so my guess would be u hire out of a more presitgious school and only like 0.1% of applicants

[smoky quest]

math don't check out.
You need to see it as an investment. If we were talking some social studies, then sure, it may be more of a cost than an investment. But in CS, it's definitely worth the investment in your career

[cobalt moat]

Also another problem is how am i suppose to even get 80k in loans... i have nobody to cosign and no collateral

[smoky quest]

not at all.
We hire from all over the US, including no-name universities. Compensation are nowadays based on market comp and we aren't even on the highest bracket

[cobalt moat]

seeing it as an investment is a good point of view to have though

i will try to be more optimistic with that

[white relic]

the point of community college is not usually to get your whole degree there (if they even offer that)
Instead you transfer and complete the program at a university after knocking out the first few years at cost

[cobalt moat]

KU barely accepts any transfers with the excuse "we want to teach it so we know you didnt miss anything" so none of my ap credit was accepted for anything other than an elective

my friends who also already took calc 1-4 at a cc are in calc 1 rn

[high coral]

for those who are older and more expierienced, what are the biggest flaws you see with the young software developers who are fresh out of school?

[cobalt moat]

any idea on this?

[smoky quest]

I can't help on the specific details though.
I take people coming out of school, not in :p

[cobalt moat]

Ok Ty for the advice ima go now

[smoky quest]

there are other folks more experienced with this side around. So I would suggest to keep an eye for other answers in case

[gritty rivet]

You seem to have firmly decided that a degree isn't worth as much as everyone here is telling you it is 😉

[fringe sphinx]

No single flaw, it’s about balance. Lots of people focus on too much of one thing

[fringe sphinx]

The common mistake perhaps is not getting involved in a substantial project (esp a open source contribution/project, anything that involves multiple people/users/problems/etc) over an extended period of time

[tulip quiver]

@cobalt moat financial aid ?

and community is way cheaper

you'll be paying $200-300 for courses depending on the credit and can transfer to a uni after you save some money

you'l be paying less than 5k for a year, with uni you can reach upto 20k+ depending on where you go

if you're comparable to people who dropped out of college and made things work like facebook etc. then a degree is merely nothing to you. But if you're average or even above average, you'll need a degree to showcase.

even people with degrees are struggling to find a job, whats your plan to compete with more competent people than you?

if you really trust the person and want to settle go ahead, but there's a cost for everything.

[near ocean]

How long does it even take the average dev to pay back their degree

[cobalt moat]

I understand a degree is worth it on paper and at face value but I don’t believe it will help me become a better software engineer

[brazen island]

If you like adventure you can get a European degree (in Eng) from some top schools in 3 years (BSc) + 1 (MSc) for ~ €3500 tuition per year with a lower CoL typically than big American cities.

[cobalt moat]

compete with more competent people? do other freshmen get full time internship positions before even entering college?

[brazen island]

Degrees expose you to many unknown unknowns that are valuable in your career. The surface area of things you touch can be smaller if you self learn.

Secondly, part of it is how much value you attach to the degree but another part is how much value your future employers attach to it. Currently for many places the answer is: a lot. Means it's still worth it if for any reason you truly don't become a better SWE because of it.

[wanton robin]

hey guys

assbeater_421 here.

[tulip quiver]

you're only looking at one variable here

[cobalt moat]

i know

[tulip quiver]

and yes, i know people who wouldve gotten full time internships if they were to, but decided to go for a degree

[cobalt moat]

could i handle 30 hour week internship and full time online college

[tulip quiver]

you can take the courses on community

[fringe sphinx]

This all seems very circular, @cobalt moat. You seem to be trying to convince yourself of a decision. What do -you- want to do? If you’re a hard worker, you’ll rise no matter what path you take. You’ll face obstacles, but whatever.

[wanton robin]

i work two full time jobs whilst going to 7 colleges and running 12 dropshipping companies. get on my level bud

[tulip quiver]

as for university, if you're really unable to pay it, theres financial aid

[cobalt moat]

i walk up hill to class both ways

[tulip quiver]

at the end, its your choice

[wanton robin]

my class is in SPACE!!!

[cobalt moat]

my class is taught in chinese

[fringe sphinx]

Ignore the troll: I finished my undergrad in the military. For real. And I’ve had a successful career

[wanton robin]

my class is taught in an ALIEN language!!!!

[cobalt moat]

ok this is offtopic, ty all for advice

[tulip quiver]

To summarize what everyone are saying, without a degree you'll be limiting yourself and even then, is there a guarantee for a future? With a degree, if x variable falls, you'll be open to y variable, and so on

[cobalt moat]

so i take the internship and online degree best of both worlds

[tulip quiver]

applying for financial aid isnt hard

[fringe sphinx]

Or join the space force.

[cobalt moat]

i just got back from a meeting with financial advisor and she said im borked

[wanton robin]

SPACE FORCE MOMENT AHHAAHHAHAHA.

[tulip quiver]

isn't that what i said? take community classes while you intern and transfer the credits when youre ready for uni

and you don't have to be a fulltime at uni either

[cobalt moat]

i need it in 4 years or ill be behind

[tulip quiver]

you can work and still take uni credits and graduate whenever you want, since you already have a job by then???

bro you're not behind, you already have the job??

[cobalt moat]

i dont have the job

[tulip quiver]

you just said after interning, you'll get fulltime

[cobalt moat]

its an internship and i dont even have it yet just a good shot at getting it

[tulip quiver]

then you shouldn't even be betting your future on this internship then

[cobalt moat]

right thats what most companies do with interns

[tulip quiver]

most do, you're not to follow the template here, you might or you might not

[fringe sphinx]

We hire them after they graduate.

[tulip quiver]

theres no guaruantee, thats why they are interning you, do you understand?

[cobalt moat]

im not gonna intern for 4 years 😂

[tulip quiver]

so just do community while interning, even if you dont get internship, community will help you save money. you can be a fulltime student and work 3 days a week ( all day), and have enough money to pay

4 days a week is enough for your studies

[cobalt moat]

so not KU online...

[tulip quiver]

KU ?

[tulip quiver]

what do you mean by this? applying for financial aid is not hard

if you really cannot pay, financial aid can determine it and will give you money

[cobalt moat]

i cant get any

[tulip quiver]

and you can apply for scholarships if you just search, its not hard

[fringe sphinx]

I dunno man. We’ve spent a lot of hours discussing this, but it’s unclear what you’re unclear on. How can we help?

[summer roost]

there's a bit more to it than just that, FWIW. Companies might decide to definitely not hire someone after an internship, for instance, if they feel like their performance was poor. And companies benefit from hiring interns even if they never hire one of those interns for a full time role. It still improves the pipeline for hiring entry-level engineers if you've had interns work for you in the past who have talked to their friends about their good experiences working with you.

[tulip quiver]

why cant you get any?

[spark cobalt]

That's the end goal for most companies. But even then, generally for a batch of interns from a company, minority gets return offers. Just because you get an internship doesn't mean you get a full time offer.

[spark cobalt]

There's gajillions of scholarships (if you're in the US.) Can't is a very very strong word for this situation lol (and is likely a lie unless you're not a US citizen or in similar situation)

[tulip quiver]

if the op isn't then its contradicting, since most companies don't even offer internships for international students

[spark cobalt]

I mean, it could probably be part of the reason why OP isn't able to get internships if OP really wasn't a US citizen

Dunno, I came late so I don't know the whole story

[tulip quiver]

🤷‍♂️

[spark cobalt]

The more I read the more confused I get about the situation

[tulip quiver]

kekw

[near ocean]

how much is the average student loan amount? and how much is the average salary for a software person
i would think you could clear the loan in under 10 years, whats the problem

[tulip quiver]

you could clear it in 2 years and have plenty of money to spend lavishly

[true harness]

2 is a bit extreme. you can't spend your entire income on paying back loans

[marsh wind]

Unless you live with parents 😁 and they cover housing and good and stuff

[true harness]

apparently the average debt is around 50k

[gritty rivet]

Sarati has been saying he expects $80k in loans. Yes that is a lot of debt but it's also absolutely manageable for someone with a state university degree in CS

[tulip quiver]

well if money is the problem, i don't think uni in the first 2 year is worth it

[sand hawk]

i'm increasingly worried that the team i ended up with is lazy / slow / low quality but i never worked in another company.. and I'm afraid attempting to leave to a healthier / more stimulating one will fail or force me to take a huge pay cut because my level is not good enough

[tulip quiver]

and in this scenario she should only take loans for the last 2 years. if 80k is for four years, i think she could clear 40k in 2 years easily

[sand hawk]

i'd love to find a way to know how fast great teams go, the average level of the problem they deal with

[true harness]

I'm not sure what you mean by that. we were talking about paying off loans

[smoky quest]

why not?

[cobalt moat]

i already know software engineering

[smoky quest]

I severely doubt it

[tulip quiver]

because in the first 2 years, uni and community is no difference

[cobalt moat]

fair

[tulip quiver]

if you did, you'd be getting a fulltime position, or internship for less amount of time

and you wouldn't be posting about this here

[cobalt moat]

internship at 18 is pretty fast

[smoky quest]

you could look at https://csed.acm.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Version-Gamma.pdf for an example of curriculum

[tulip quiver]

you dont have the internship yet lol

there are prodigies who code since they were youngsters, become experts in competitive programming and so on

i don't think you're an outlier here

[true harness]

community college isn't free

[tulip quiver]

its below fraction of the price that of uni, and with financial aid, you can pay it off

[cobalt moat]

im not in competitive programming

[tulip quiver]

that's not my point

[smoky quest]

Quality is a process, not a state.
So the main things are to create or have opportunities to improve. For instance, does your team have retrospective at the end of their sprint/milestone?

[tulip quiver]

@cobalt moat if you're a closed minded person, why bother to ask here? do whatever you want and deal with the consequences later if you can't think

[sand hawk]

They want to get out asap and don't care about any of this. It's really minimum quality, minimum hours. I tried to introduce MR and code reviews but it went out after less than a week.

[cobalt moat]

deal with the consequences later, hmmm i like that

[tulip quiver]

yeah we all learn differently, some learn it the hard way.

there's a reason why majority are pursuing a degree

[true harness]

that is not a good idea

[cobalt moat]

because they are close minded

[tulip quiver]

and you're not ? 😭

[sand hawk]

When I joined I was motivated enough to do hard work and more side gigs for my own growth, but after a 9 months there I find myself drained of boredom

[cobalt moat]

there meaning uni?

[smoky quest]

okay and then they have to deal with the consequences of it. Have they had problems with that approach?

[sand hawk]

no, a company

[sand hawk]

so far it's all smooth, nobody cares much, or they think it's good enough. which is fine, but to me, every day feels like digging myself into a dead end of zero skill because i followed people with slow pace and low complexity tastes

[summer roost]

there's only so much an individual - especially a junior engineer - can do to change team culture, but introducing a policy that every piece of code that's landed needs to have been code reviewed is, in my mind, the single most important change to make

[sand hawk]

if someone struggles with quotes vs double quotes or json parsing .. of course they wont try to design or even use proper tree DS or think about generic solutions

but as mentioned above, i have no idea if it's the appropriate level for senior devs

[gritty rivet]

Measuring developer productivity in a meaningful way is kind of a hard problem.

If you feel unchallenged you should absolutely be looking for better opportunities

[sand hawk]

it's true but i've seen the same errors come again and again so on the 'learn from your mistakes' side it's very bad.

do you have ideas how to test for challenges ? i'm starting leetcode and some book reading about advanced sql

[fringe sphinx]

There are good and bad engineering teams. And, there are ‘bad fits’: sometimes it’s just the wrong company for you. If it happens several times, the problem might be you… but I’ve seen some truly terrible teams (luckily from the outside/as a consultant), so just mark this down to experience.

[cobalt moat]

i dont want to do software engineering longterm i want to get a job programming AI or something involving new technologies or computer research

[true harness]

college is how you do that

[cobalt moat]

not disagreeing with that

[true harness]

actually, for AI, it's really the only way

[cobalt moat]

cant i do that with an online degree?

[fringe sphinx]

This conversation is in some sort of infinite loop.

[sand hawk]

yeah i could be a problem, i'm open to my own flaws.

i need to figure out a way to know

thanks for helping

[true harness]

you might call it recursion. maybe even

a recursive error

[cobalt moat]

recursion 👀

[true harness]

sure but that isn't exactly dropping out

[fringe sphinx]

Oh wait, I’m saying: it’s just one company. It’s not you. Bad is bad, don’t stress it: find a place that fits you. But if it happens repeatedly (other companies), be self aware to question yourself.

[cobalt moat]

current idea is 30 hour internshop and online school

[sand hawk]

no worries, i got you, i was just telling that i believe to be mature enough to recognize a recurring problem even if its me 😄

also i feel terrible bringing this to the team manager because I feel like 1) bragging 2) making others look bad

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, there’s a ‘fit’ thing too: ive seen (apparently) terrible engineers become highly successful at other companies, and the so-called rockstars go on to be useless elsewhere, so yolo: find a place that fits you and don’t agonize over it?

[true harness]

that seems reasonable. why not remote internship? if you want to be full time for school that's already like 40 hours too

[cobalt moat]

remote internship sounds hard

i think inperson internship is better for experience

and online school is cheaper and easier

[white relic]

remote IMO undermines several of the key advantages of an internship

[true harness]

I was hybrid, but sadly pretty much everyone was remote except my manager

[sand hawk]

yeah

[white relic]

If the whole rest of the team is also remote maybe that's different

[fringe sphinx]

You said you want to do ai and research, fields that (for the most part) require graduate degrees. That you don’t want to do software engineering. That you don’t have the financial resources to continue in your current university program, and that you have an internship opportunity that you’re considering, which you’d take a revert to an online college program. If it’s a financial decision, it really doesn’t matter what’s better or not: there’s no choice involved, as you’ve indicated. The rest of it doesn’t matter: you’ve said you don’t have any options, so don’t stress it. It’ll all work out.

[summer roost]

what do you mean by "easier"?

if you mean that the program itself will be less challenging, that seems like a con, not a pro.

[cobalt moat]

i can go at my own pase instead of sitting through a slow 3 hour lecture

[vapid jay]

Okay the people at my job have no interest in improving things but I’m so bored im just going to try and start automating things in python or should i just quit

[gritty rivet]

You can do both of those things. Don't quit until you have a better job offer in hand, but make the best of it in the meantime. If you can automate things you absolutely should

[gritty rivet]

At this point I think you basically understand the trade-offs involved. You know that a self-paced degree is worth less, but considering everything else you don't like about your current situation, that might not be a deal breaker. Don't quit school lightly, but if this internship you're hoping for proves to be what you're looking for, it's clear that nobody hear.is going to talk you out of taking it

[cobalt moat]

👍

[gritty rivet]

I certainly agree with this... all else being equal an on-person internship will likely be superior in terms of opportunities to learn from coworkers

[echo heron]

i would feel like you'd want an internship to be in person. when i was a junior dev and first started professionally working, being in person helped me out a lot. the lead engineer taught me a lot more than i thought i knew

[white relic]

also helps a lot with the networking aspect. When you're remote you tend to only interact with people who you work with directly. There's more cross contact in a shared office

[echo heron]

yes exactly

[celest kestrel]

What should I do to get my first internship. How much am I expected to know.

[pine sleet]

You aren't really expected to know much, it's an internship after all. Your interest, attitude, and work ethic are probably more important to employers at this stage

[celest kestrel]

What would make me stand out compared to everyone else. That's what I don't really get.

[stuck shell]

what is difference between cs and ce

[gritty rivet]

Have you had much feedback on your resume/portfolio? Get as much of it as you can

[true harness]

strong DSA skills. good projects

[regal axle]

If you really want to stand out; have a project (that isn’t just a school project) that you worked on. Have practical experience. It doesn’t need to actually serve a legitimate purpose. Just that you could make something. There are other ways. But this one is an easy to grasp way

[gritty rivet]

If you're asking about specific university programs.you should look at their programs.and see. But in general: https://www.coursera.org/articles/computer-science-vs-computer-engineering

[stuck shell]

cool looks like I am more off a cs kinda guy

[celest kestrel]

Yeah I'm getting all the feedback I can get. Career services at my uni also help with resumes and cover letters so Im listening to them. Also went to some career fairs and asked them what I should have on my resume and trying to include everything tbh

[celest kestrel]

I got some projects but everything seems so basic to me. I got gui project which is a basic java calculator. I got another calendar project where people can add their events and stuff. Made it from scratch using html css js. Got another one using a library which can send texts to any phone number. Some other projects as well. The thing is I feel like my projects are way to basic but I'm not sure

[fringe sphinx]

Depends on what role you’re shooting for. First, DSA was mentioned-The so-called “top” positions have made leetcode/DSA into a basic requirements. You won’t stand out, but you do need to study it… and it’s not a ‘quick’ study: spread it out.

[celest kestrel]

Yup got 2 classes purely on DSA this year. And another 2 that somewhat relate to it

[fringe sphinx]

But that’s not what you asked. You asked about ‘stand out’… what makes an exceptional candidate. A few examples of people who’ve struck me as exceptional: 1. personality and character- some folks come across as immature or abrasive. Take that serious. 2. Involvement in something meaningful: especially an industry relevant open source project. 3. Involvement in the community (meetups, conferences, acm events (altho mostly territory of grad students, etc). 4. Industry knowledge: I work in fintech mostly, so candidates with some accounting/econ/finance knowledge have an advantage

[celest kestrel]

Oh I get what you mean now

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, this year, I’d suggest you get comfortable knocking out leetcode easy’s. You’ll want to work your way up to mediums… but easy’s should be light work by the end of the year

[celest kestrel]

Yeah this year I'm gonna try developing my skills. Not just leetcode but also like you said industry knowledge, personality and character

I haven't really been focusing on industry knowledge, personality and character. I feel like many people I know just neglect that part

[fringe sphinx]

You’ll also need broad knowledge but here’s the problem: most candidates can barely explain any single project in depth. The problem is that in a 4 year college program, you really don’t have time to ‘master’ any one thing. The number of times I’ve interviewed folks who have sql, pandas, whatever… and then couldn’t answer basic questions... it’s exhausting. So, if you’re going to learn something, stick with it for a long project. I’d love to interview you and hear you explain the details and design decisions of -your- project

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, it’s somewhat part of the geek territory 🙂

Anyway, this is just my opinion. Keep doing what you’re doing: ask and listen to other peoples opinions.

[celest kestrel]

Gotta become a geek then if it gets me in lol

[celest kestrel]

Yeah tysm for your insight. Really helped me out. Thanks

[lavish skiff]

I am looking for job in different sites very few jobs are about python junior developer

And even if they don't specify what kind of developer they need they ask for 4 to 6 year experience. My question is how should I know on what level my python skills are?

[harsh river]

usually one is theoretical, the other applied

[summer roost]

CS is math and software, CE is electronics and hardware

[summer roost]

I think you might have been thinking of SE, not CE

[harsh river]

oops

[median sluice]

if i post a question about html will i get banned?

[solar scroll]

hello

[median sluice]

hi

[solar scroll]

is anyone here?

[median sluice]

no

[regal axle]

wrong place to ask. But, no. You won't get banned but you also are not as likely to get a response. That being said; it should ideally still be related to a python question in some way. See #❓｜how-to-get-help

[median sluice]

@regal axle problem is that the html discords are ussually dead quiet

[tired canyon]

hello

how to get verified in voice anyone know

[untold herald]

!voice

[inner wren]

Voice verification

Can’t talk in voice chat? Check out #voice-verification to get access. The criteria for verifying are specified there.

[tired canyon]

what's the cretriya to verify

[untold herald]

Check the channel that's mentioned in the embed

Oh and move to off-topic, I just realized this is #career-advice.

[tired canyon]

"have over 50 messeges in server" i cand understand

[maiden star]

I am a beginner in coding. Is there any online jobs i can start up with?

[gritty rivet]

You apply for jobs you think you have a reasonable shot at and find out. If, for example, they give you a technical screening that's way above your head then you know you're not ready for that job

You can also share your resume and get feedback but it's the opinions.of potential employers that really matter

[gritty rivet]

These days the answer is basically "no". But the way to really find out is to look for jobs and apply. You can also look at freelance platforms like Upwork and Fiverr but getting clients like that is even more competitive then getting a real job (and much lower paid)

[maiden star]

How much do u think i can earn from upwork or fiverr?

[fringe sphinx]

There are jobs other than software engineering that have lower barriers to entry. QA/remote testing for instance may have more opportunities.

[gritty rivet]

You have no practical experience as a developer so far? Then in my opinion you are most likely to earn $0.00 on Fiverr.

Go look at what people are charging for what and see if you can manage to compete. There are a lot of people with good experience charging quite low amounts but if you're very determined and can survive on a few dollars per hour maybe it will work for you.

[near ocean]

the big capital letters at the top of the page in the channel description should let you know whether the server does hiring or not

[maiden star]

Okay

[celest kite]

!rule paid

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[vital sparrow]

Thanks for informing me. Could you please suggest the channel name where I can post my query? It would really be helpful 🙂

[peak halo]

A different server

they did that before, so they're banned now btw.

[stuck shell]

What difference between cs and se

[peak halo]

software engineering is about writing programs and computer engineering is about designing hardware.

[deft herald]

I always though CE was like the intersection of Computer Science and Electrical Engineering

[peak halo]

it might also depend on the region

[stuck shell]

Cs sorry

[stuck shell]

Same

[deft herald]

Do a lot of like VHDL and computer architechture and stuff

[stuck shell]

I like programming but idk which is better for me cs or se

[peak halo]

the actual curriculum is going to depend on the institution and their accreditation standards, but at least going by the definitions of CS and SWE, CS is a branch of math that deals with algorithms and what can be computed with algorithms, and SWE is about designing software systems.

In practice, "true computer science" has limited applicability, so a CS degree program will probably involve some amount of SWE course work. Research faculty who specialize in AI or cybersecurity will probably only be found in a CS department.

[summer roost]

At least in the US, they tend to be very similar, but where they differ it's because CS focuses more on the theory of computing, and SE focuses more on the theory of building and managing software projects. SE courses are much more likely to talk about project management and design patterns and such, CS courses are much more likely to talk about the theory of computability and such

[peak halo]

And by the mouth of two or three shall every word be established.

[vapid jay]

we live we love we lie

[maiden star]

Can u elaborate that field

[fringe sphinx]

QA (Quality Assurance) are jobs related to software testing and verification. The lower level jobs in QA often don't require a degree or much technical knowledge, but there's also a lot of room for advancement.

[maiden star]

So where can i find such jobs ...is there a specific site or something

[fringe sphinx]

No specific site, usual job searching stuff: LinkedIn/etc.

[zinc parrot]

learning python as a hobby can lead me to a job?

[dawn fable]

Of course!

[zinc parrot]

thanks mb

[coral vine]

I've been doing interviews again for SWE jobs, but for technical assessments that require webcams on, I'm struggling because I think it's not okay to use pen and paper? Do they care?

[true harness]

you could just ask them

[harsh remnant]

I have to learn all this just for an internship??

[true harness]

read the actual description. some might be "required", some might be "preferred"

[fervent grove]

most certainly are buzzwords to get a wider range of applicants

@true harness my internship mentor told me the HR just puts buzzwords in skills to get more applicants 🗿

[true harness]

ok, but looking at these, they're just what some AI decided to pull from the description

[fervent grove]

i see no description tho but ur suggestion with carefully reading the description is a good start 😄

[coral vine]

I don't think so. They send hackerrank assessments with 48hr deadlines Dx

[summer roost]

Why would that not be ok?

By "use pen and paper" do you mean to sketch out your thoughts, take notes, diagram a potential solution, etc?

[fervent grove]

dunno bout leetcode they might dislike to check it manually?

[coral vine]

They mention things like "don't open other webpages", and if they were okay with it, i would think they would mention it on the previous screen like "but feel free to sketch out thought process on paper"

[summer roost]

Oh, sure, at some point you'll need to type the code in

[coral vine]

Also, maybe they will think that i have answers and a cheat sheet that i am looking at

[fervent grove]

i understood his question in a way hes not able to do so currently
ok nvm

so its just ur workflow @coral vine ?

[coral vine]

because i always logic it out on paper. i've never just worked purely on a text editor o.o it's like a totally different skill Dx

[fervent grove]

i would suggest asking them before u begin?!

[summer roost]

I don't think so. But if you're on video for this, you can always address that by just saying out loud "I'm going to sketch my thoughts out on paper before I start writing this", or something like that, to give them a heads up on what you're doing.

[coral vine]

it says that hackerrank takes periodic snapshots so i dont think it records the audio

[honest geyser]

hello

[fervent grove]

yeh keep that talking up :D, management loves communication after all lol

[summer roost]

ah, fair enough.

The only issue I can imagine is that they think that you copied the code from somewhere else because you just dump a completed working program in the text editor all at once (hackerrank lets them see edits over time, so it will look weird if you just write the entire program all at once)

but no, using paper/pencil is totally fine. I'd expect people to do that even for whiteboard interviews

[true harness]

you can always email them to confirm. surely they'll give you some email like "if you have questions about the assessment blah blah email here"

[fervent grove]

with this information i would ask the hiring staff

[coral vine]

it doesn't seem like these companies would reply on time, within 48hrs :/ the company works through hackerrank platform so the contact information is kind of weird

i would think that if they would allow it, then they wouldn't make this information so hard to find? it's not even in the FAQ

[summer roost]

The point of telling you not to open other browser tabs is that they don't want you googling stuff. They probably don't want you searching a textbook, either, but that's much harder to enforce, heh. Using pencil and paper to gather your own thoughts isn't a bad thing, though, and there's no reason they would want you not to do that.

[fervent grove]

then note out ur thoughts as u would do in python

import numpy as np
# note here
[...]

[summer roost]

As an interviewer, it would never have even occurred to me that a candidate might think it's not ok to take notes or diagram ideas, so I would never think to write "Feel free to take notes or diagram ideas on paper" in the description of the task

[coral vine]

i guess i can write in the code comments that i am using paper to write my thoughts out and not cheating xD

[fervent grove]

but i got his concern and would go with my suggestion from above to give no room for misinterpretation

[coral vine]

but cheating is such a big thing for online interviews. so id assume theyd think everything is cheating.

for instance, last night i took a uni exam and the proctor told me to take my smart watch off

[summer roost]

Taking notes on paper is a totally normal thing to do when working out a math problem or designing something. I really can't imagine that they'd think that

[spark quest]

Hey ,
I'm a Python developer experienced with PyQt5, Scrapy, Selenium, BeautifulSoup, Requests, Web scraping and Browser Automation, what should I learn next according to the market?

[deft herald]

I'm not aware of much of a market for webscraping. Maybe learn some data science tools? Really it all comes down to what interests you

[fervent grove]

they wont see him writing/sketching on paper if he has to put the camera towards his face (in order to see his eye movement) lol this is such a fuckdup assessment lol

[summer roost]

if you're totally paranoid about it, you could always just hold up your sheet of notes in front of the camera for a few seconds 🙂

[fervent grove]

1min at start 1min after first edit 1min after 2 edit lol

[coral vine]

theyll think i did the good ol switcharoo

[spark quest]

Data science is a bigger field, can you pin it down to some topics?

[fervent grove]

creating KPIs for process performance
starting with simple ML stuff

[spark quest]

Any outline for it?

[coral vine]

has anyone else done online webcam enforced technical interviews while using pen and paper and proceeded onto the next round? o.o

[fervent grove]

find a dataset at kaggle and start to think of ways to visualize the data and generate informations

[fervent grove]

nope all mine have been on-sight sorry

[coral vine]

because if it was allowed this whole time then i will be sadge because that was 2 wasted interviews Dx

[summer roost]

I don't think they will - and if they did, is that the sort of company you'd want to work for?

[spark quest]

And where would I use that skill?

[fervent grove]

elaborate

industry stores GBs/TBs of data every day and those data has to be analyzed and taken use of

[coral vine]

aren't all companies in general super super suspicious these days, especially for online matters? so many phishing scams and all

[fervent grove]

two very different fields u compare

[coral vine]

what if me and another candidate did well but they chose off of one factor which is he didnt use paper and i did? Dx

[summer roost]

yes, but that's a nonsequitur. Being suspicious of one thing doesn't mean you need to be suspicious of other things

[fervent grove]

as @summer roost already mentioned would u want to work for such a company

[summer roost]

I guess I'm not clear on what you're trying to get out of this conversation at this point. You asked whether it would be OK, I told you it would be OK, you're telling me that it's not OK so you're not going to do it. Why did you ask, if you've already made up your mind?

[coral vine]

I did not make up my mind. I am trying to understand if it's ok because there isn't enough proof that it is okay

[fervent grove]

so u are biased not to use pen and paper and we cant convince u so u made up ur mind

[summer roost]

I'm not sure what you'd accept as "proof", but I'm telling you that I've conducted interviews and have never cared if candidates take notes on paper, and it would never have occurred to me that some candidates might think it wasn't OK to take notes.

perhaps some other people who've been on the interviewer side will weigh in as well.

[smoky quest]

I concur

[coral vine]

conducted them in the webcam enforced format or you mean the in-person interview?

[summer roost]

both, though I've never done the pre-recorded webcam format. I've only done the webcam format where both the candidate and I are on a video call together, and sharing a hackerrank link for passing along coding challenges/solutions

[coral vine]

oh sigh i guess i wasted 2 interviews Dx well thanks i guess i will use paper and pen from this point on. glad to know i dont have to force myself to logic it all out in a text editor xD

but just look at all these warnings. it is hard to not be paranoid. see they say no cellphone allowed. so if i use pen and paper then they might think im on my phone

and if they were going to put so many warnings, it makes sense to add that using pen and paper is fine, if they were actually fine with it

[summer roost]

sure, they might. But again, if they do, it seems like you likely wouldn't want to work for them

all I can tell you for sure is that it wouldn't bother me, if I was reviewing your assessment. I can't tell you whether it would bother whoever is going to be reviewing your assessment

[coral vine]

i haven't even gotten my foot in the door. i don't really feel like i'm in a position to be choosey Dx

[smoky quest]

you also have to look at the spirit and intent of the directions

[harsh remnant]

Would using Google be banned in interviews like if you didn’t know a certain syntax or smth

[coral vine]

okay thanks that gives me another perspective that i didn't think about. i mean my only reference point is from school...... which sometimes feels like everything can be cheating.. like just wearing a smartwatch o.o

even me mumbling was cheating in last nights uni exam o.o
it's like i am trying to talk aloud my thoughts. and it isn't aloud

[summer roost]

🤷‍♂️ They want you to not google stuff, and smartwatches can be used to google stuff, or text, or whatever

[coral vine]

it is hard to see that when most previous experiences involve over-moderation o.o

also in the screenshot it says "please do not look away from the screen during the test" o.o

so if you got this pre-screen for a technical interview, you would still feel comfortable using pen and paper?

[smoky quest]

school is different from real life

[summer roost]

personally, yes. And if I was feeling paranoid about it, I'd angle the camera so it shows the notes I was taking as I take them.

they want you to not google stuff. It shouldn't be hard to show that what you're doing isn't googling.

[coral vine]

i will probably do this moving on forward

[summer roost]

You could also throw a comment into the source file to give the interviewer a heads up about what you're doing. Good communication is always appreciated, so I'd consider typing ```py

I'm going to sketch this out on paper to gather my thoughts

I'm not saying that you need to do all that, but I think it would make it very unlikely that they'd think you were cheating after all that.

[coral vine]

great idea! i will do this.

on another note, as a person gains more experience as a SWE, do most eventually just end up learning how to logic out solutions entirely via text editor?

because things are becoming more remote and i would assume people who have to collaborate online would have to communicate their ideas quickly and often.

so if they have to keep sharing screenshots, screensharing, or using online sketch sites while coding collaboratively....... it would be pretty distractive, cumbersome, tedious to sync everyone up because of all the moving parts?

i kind of notice this with pair programming to practice leetcode. so im wondering if it eventually gets to the point that it becomes a necessity to learn to logic it all out in the editor anyways? otherwise you would take too long to get work done since you always need to show your sketches in order to communicate ideas? from switching around so much and often. I am talking about working remotely

for instance, collaborating over github projects, we are often times limited to text messages to communicate thoughts to each other. i notice a lot of people struggle with that. so, i wonder if eventually it becomes a necessity to learn to work within those limits , instead of sticking to what we are comfortable with like sketching out thoughts

[summer roost]

I don't think there's any universal answer to this. I know people who never sketch anything out on paper, and I know people who sketch everything out on paper. I probably use like 4 pieces of paper a year, but I know professional devs who don't start typing until they know exactly what they're going to type. I think this just comes down to different people's preferences.

But yes, screensharing is still useful for diagrams. Things like https://mermaid.js.org/ can be used for making simple diagrams quickly, and I find that that meets the majority of my needs. It's always tough to keep everyone on a team synced up, and occasional time spent screensharing or video calling and talking through solutions is just a cost that needs to be paid.

i wonder if eventually it becomes a necessity to learn to work within those limits , instead of sticking to what we are comfortable with like sketching out thoughts
I'm probably not the right person to answer that for you. I've never been very visual, I almost always gather my thoughts in text, and it's really rare for me to diagram or sketch things. I've never been a sketcher.

[coral vine]

oh ok good to know. there is also excalidraw.com. i always figure everything out on paper before i type code in. so im kind of worried this will be a great hinderance if i work remotely someday. if im limited to a text editor, ill just be clueless xD

[white relic]

even working in person, people have their own ways of communicating stuff and you learn how to work with them

I have coworkers who I can explain things to verbally and they finish every other sentence and other people who need pictures

some people take meticulous notes on cards with colored ink and some people just like... soak up everything

[brazen island]

What always works for me is whiteboarding with very simple things that business can understand. For instance, ERD's without the boxes, circles and attributes. Just entities and . Process charts with 5 % of the frills. The good thing about diagrams is that they're unambigious and non-tech stakeholders can understand them unless you go full-UML.

[cobalt moat]

Do internship recruiters care about non field related employment on resume?

[true harness]

to the extent that you are at least normal enough to hold a job, yes

[deft herald]

I'd say the interest doesn't go past internships though

[white relic]

"Do recruiters care about X" can always be answered with "it depends". Some people will care some people may not. But for the people who do care, you should have enough on there to satisfy them about your job history

[vapid jay]

I wanna start a computer and tech repair shop while also being an engineer I’m 17 right now but any advice?

[delicate bane]

people who need pictures
+1

[deft herald]

Start with the computer and tech repair now. You will need a degree to become an engineer

[fringe sphinx]

Finding customers is hard. Do you know 3 people who’d pay you today?

If not, find those three people and then decide if it’s worth it. (I’m more or less paraphrasing some VC classic advice)

[summer roost]

showing that you've been able to hold down a job in the past and show up for work every day without getting fire is definitely helpful

[gritty rivet]

If you're 17 and want to be an engineer, focus on getting a degree at the best university you can.

[cobalt moat]

a computer repair freelance could be a good option while u pursue engineering degree

[lone zinc]

hello, guys

I am working as a Flutter developer with a low wage and struggling to find a higher paying job, any suggestions?

[smoky quest]

Applying to some better paying job would be a start

[lone zinc]

XD

[fringe sphinx]

Learn a little about a lot. Are you reading tech blogs? Watching conference videos? Interacting with other techies (hang out in #python-discussion and you’ll learn a lot)? Are you writing code that -you- find interesting? In other words; be an interesting person and opportunity will knock

[rigid nebula]

helo

[smoky quest]

you may want to narrow down your problem a bit.
There are tons of high pay flutter jobs and we need more details about what's stopping you

[lone zinc]

I live in South America, I have a salary that is considerate decent here (8 dollars an hour). I am trying to find a remote job from a country that pays more.

[fringe sphinx]

My favorite saying is: “chance favors the prepared mind”. Louis Pasteur

[lone zinc]

XD

[smoky quest]

pays is typically based on your location, not the HQ of the company

[lone zinc]

Right

[smoky quest]

so if your pay is decent for your skills and location, then there is no reason to think you would typically find another company from another country willing to pay more

changing country is an option 😉

[cobalt moat]

Do recruiters verify dates of employment on resume?

[smoky quest]

that might happen.
Why?

[cobalt moat]

So I shouldn’t exaggerate

[smoky quest]

don't lie. That's the most stupid thing you could do
Be it on dates or anything

[deft herald]

Why would you lie about dates?

[fringe sphinx]

Yes. Regularly. It’s the only thing we can actually verify

[cobalt moat]

Do you know when winners of summer internships are announced

I’ve seen a few opened already

[regal axle]

“Winners”. Not really how that works. They send you offer letters. Or interviews or whatever step would be next.
Unless you are talking about not US. I only know about US

But it differs wildly from company to company. Like from weeks to months type of wildly

[tulip quiver]

Any thoughts on getting oracle sql certification?

Good investment or would I be better off learning cloud? I eventually wanna do both, but I do wanna maximize my resources right now so not sure which to invest in.

[fringe sphinx]

Oracle seems a lot less relevant nowadays than it used to be (was my first db). Learning Azure or AWS is far more relevant/useful, imo

[rustic coral]

Oh, you used MySQL like first db. I used SQLite3, now I passed on MySQL. I used it in by tg bot.

[lapis wind]

TBF Oracle are still a very big player in tech, just maybe not as big in the DB world as they used to be

that being said, specifically the Oracle SQL Cert? I don't think it's really worth anything extra over just learning SQL as a general thing

If you don't know SQL though, you should learn it, and I would prioritise it over cloud to begin with

[daring sphinx]

The job search could be going a lot better and I was wondering if anyone had experience with Python gig work.

[lapis wind]

That is a very broad question really

What kind of jobs are you searching for working with Python? And what country / region? Remote? In office?

[daring sphinx]

Generally speaking, I'm applying for data engineering roles at the mid- to senior-level position. I've been concentrating on the Bay Area as more companies are moving to hybrid/in-office, but I'm flexible.

At the moment, though, I just need to do something, anything, to bring some money in, and Doordash is full.

[lapis wind]

What is your CV like?

[daring sphinx]

I've had a few passes on it, including with my previous boss (who also gave me a good recommendation to use), but at the moment I'm really just asking about what's out there for gig work.

[lapis wind]

I can't really say for the Bay Area as I'm based in the UK, but I think your best bet is probably just looking through job postings on LinkedIn, Glassdoor, Indeed, etc...

[daring sphinx]

I generally apply for three positions a day via LinkedIn, Indeed, etc.

[lapis wind]

Idk how many companies you've already applied to, but it really is a game of applying to as many as possible

[daring sphinx]

A friend recommended Fiverr, but I don't have a lot of knowledge about what kind of work people pick up there.

A bit stuck creating my profile because of it.

[lapis wind]

Fiverr is brutal if you're just starting or dont have an existing interest in your services

Mostly just because the initial tasks you get tend to be a lot of work, for a unliveable amount of money (relative to living costs)

Not saying it's impossible, but if you're trying to get a stable income, Fiverr and freelancing without an existing client base and connections, is probably going to suck

[daring sphinx]

I'm trying to get a stable income, but at the moment I need any income.

Do you know some examples of the types of initial tasks?

[lapis wind]

For fiverr?

[daring sphinx]

Yes. I'm trying to get a sense of what people ask for.

[lapis wind]

• Write me a website for $5-20
• Write me an AI for $100
• Write me a discord bot for $5 and host it for me
• Scrape this website and process the information for $10

Is what I remember a lot of the common tasks being

This is assuming you are mostly going to be bidding on individual user tasks, rather than company tasks that pay better when you get started or really just get unlucky

[daring sphinx]

Thanks, that's a good sense of what's out there.

[tulip quiver]

thank you, i do know postgres

but thats about it

[rocky forge]

hi hi

[leaden jasper]

!warn 1111403609381421156 Don't post weird conspiracy theories/copypasta here.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @radiant frost.

[random bronze]

who tf is posting conspiracies anyways

[smoky quest]

Hi!
It's not a channel for shitposting

[fossil arrow]

how long does it usually take to know enough python to be able to hack?

[hardy shore]

is getting a job in software engineering/ software development harder when you have tattoos, neck and below?

[white relic]

Some people will judge you for it, others will not care. On the average, yes, you'll find it harder with visible tattoos than not. But how much harder is difficult to quantify.
It furthermore matters where you are in the world and what the tattoos are.

[harsh river]

^, japan is notorious for discriminating against tattoos for example

[smoky quest]

it's not related to career.
This question would also go against the rules of our server

[fossil arrow]

ok lil bro

[smoky quest]

in general, it doesn't matter that much if you are in a non-customer facing role as the world is rather tolerant in 2023.
But as mentioned above, it depends on your country and there are always less tolerant people

[smoky quest]

np big sis

[white relic]

It (visible tattoos) isn't something I would spend a lot of time worrying about; presumably you already have the ink so there isn't much you can do about it. People may discriminate against you for any number of reasons. It's not by any means unique to software.

[smoky quest]

if it helps, I know VCs, VPs or GMs with visible tattoos.
That said, they aren't the trashy kind

[full siren]

If i want to be a backend dev, should I also study html & css or dive into js and its frameworks directly?

[smoky quest]

Let's take a step back since we are on a career channel. What is your current situation and context?

[full siren]

I'm in my sophmore year. I've studied data science and machine learning on my own then I wanted to try something new. I learned some html css but I recognized that I mostly like coding instead of designing. Data science is a field that you can't really invest something and can't produce something such as game devs. I'm not fully sure whether I should go with web, app or another field. Before, I liked creating software apps

[brazen island]

Depends on the company, some will be annoying about it but ask yourself the question if you want to work with them in the first place?

[hardy shore]

I'm definitly not that kind either, I'm one to wear a suit to most occasions and are very clean and law abiding. but I love tattoos and plan to get a neck tattoo as well as a arm sleeve.

[lilac horizon]

Anyone who has earned much on upwork with data science? Just need some thoughts on what is the competition... pay ...skills ...specific tips

[shut sage]

Does anyone have ML/DL job experience without a college degree in math, DS, computer science or something else?

[keen onyx]

hey anyone want a code for an ai?

ima just send it

import random

Define a list of possible user inputs and corresponding AI responses

user_inputs = [
"Hello",
"How are you?",
"What is your name?",
"What can you do?",
"Goodbye",
"What does the creator like to watch?",
"Tell me a joke.",
"What is your favorite color?",
"Do you have any hobbies?",
"What is your favorite food?",
"What does the creator like?",
"How to make Tea?",
"How to download Java minecraft for free?",
"You are a rip off ChatGPT",
"Is a youtuber named Dani depressed?",
"Muck.",
"Can you tell the creator's favourite music?"
]

ai_responses = [
"Hello!",
"I'm doing well, thank you.",
"My name is GoldAI!.",
"I can assist you in writing, answer questions, and provide information. But I don't have all functions.",
"Goodbye.",
"The creator enjoys watching dani a youtuber with a popular music video called K A R L S O N V I B E.",
"Why don't scientists trust atoms? Because they make up everything!",
"My favorite color is gold.",
"As an AI, I don't have hobbies in the traditional sense, but I enjoy helping people.",
"I don't eat, but if I had to choose, I'd say my favorite food is data.",

def generate_response(user_input):
if user_input in user_inputs:
index = user_inputs.index(user_input)
return ai_responses[index]
else:
return "Sorry i am not programmed to be able to answer that"

Main loop to receive user input and generate AI responses

while True:
user_input = input("Person: ")
response = generate_response(user_input)
print("GoldAI:", response)
if user_input == "Goodbye":
break

theres the code for an ai

[fringe sphinx]

My experience in US and observations in Europe is that few people care about that stuff. Watch a conference video, for instance.. heck, watch europython (which I just finished watching… ) and you’ll see many visible tattoos from speakers. Engineering is largely a meritocracy. Might be judged if you have a Mike Tyson face tattoo tho… /j

[fringe sphinx]

Without any college degree, or without a STEM degree?

[zinc parrot]

I'm thinking in holding the college for a couple of months and well, I will have time to look at things. Maybe a job with python?

[gritty rivet]

I don't do data science but you can easily just shop around on there to see exactly who you are competing with

[coral vine]

I did a SWE hackerrank assessment yesterday. On the pre-screen rules, it didn't mention anything about not being able to use other web pages. It even mentioned that it was fine to look at technical documentation for language syntax reference. During the interview, I switched over to youtube music to change the song. When I switched back to the interview screen, there was a pop-up that appeared, informing me that they saw what I did and they are tracking these activities. o.o I wonder if I lowered my chances of passing because of that Dx

Also, I'm not sure how well I should be performing on these technical assessments. I usually finish the first problem quickly like under 15m and pass all test cases, but it seems like the second problem for all of the companies are always dynamic programming problems. I don't finish those ones, but I type in my pseudocode for them. I don't pass any test cases for the second problems. :/ Do they read those comments?

I'm not sure if I should keep applying to jobs if that's my current skill level. I'm kind of confused and rushing through things because internships just opened up around August, so I want to apply often and early to companies. However, these interviews make me feel like I'm not good enough yet.

[true harness]

for fully automated assessments, no. if you don't get a good enough score there's no reason to continue the process or manually verify

[coral vine]

I'm unsure if they are fully automated. Some companies have hackerrank assessments with no test cases and say that they will just look at my logic manually. I've also taken coding assessments where I didn't finish all problems and I thought I did poorly, but I still passed because the score was above average compared to the pool of candidates.

Now, I am not sure what the bar is for these hackerrank assessments or how well the average candidate performs o.o but I get a feeling that they don't expect full completion. One of the hackerrank assessments had 3 problems with only 30m to complete them all xD

[vapid jay]

That’s the point lmao I wanna make at least $300k a year

Not because I’m greedy but because I wanna have a bright future for my brother

[spark cobalt]

Gl!

[gritty rivet]

The only way to really know if you're good enough to get a job is to get a job

Until then you can always do more practice, there is no "enough"

When I got my first and only dev job so far, I was pretty sure I bombed the technical assignment but apparently I did relatively well. They often do give you problems they have no expectation that you can really do, just to see how you do. Don't overthink it just do your best and keep improving.

In situations where you don't quite get it in time but can figure it out soon after, and you're really interested in that specific job, sometimes it's worth following up and showing that effort. If nothing else it's more practice

[cobalt moat]

300k isn’t gonna happen

Labor for a pc repair is at most 80$

That’s 3750 pc repairs

Average 10-11 per day which is unfeasible when you have to find the customers and go to school

[coral vine]

Good tip. It is quite the predicament. I used to just not even try any interviews because I never felt ready. Then I realized I was never going to be ready no matter how much I practiced. So, I started applying a bunch and doing those interviews. Then I realized I didn't practice a lot of important things like syntax, webcam, timer countdown, etc o.o There are so many more additional stress factors Dx I realize it would have been really helpful if I participated in those leetcode contests. It kind of better simulates those interviews since it is a set of problems to solve under a specified time frame. Sigh.

I'm probably being impatient again, but I should hear back soon. I did the online assessment for 4 different companies these past 2 weeks. Gulp! o.o Rejection galore!

[harsh jolt]

In my first job, I got part of the technical interview completely wrong. I realised part way through and corrected myself but walked out thinking I'd blown it completely.
They told me they liked how I admitted the mistake and set about putting it right.

[coral vine]

I'm roasting under the flames of these 1 hour+ technical interviews. I'm reminiscing upon those 5 minute minimum wage job interview days xD

[coral vine]

Cloudy with a chance of meatballs

That happened to me too in one of the interviews. I think it is the most challenging part of the interviews. Messing up big time, realizing it, feeling super embarrassed, then somehow bouncing back to correct it in whatever tiny amount of remaining time Dx

[vapid jay]

How

[cobalt moat]

I already answered that

[true harness]

I assume they meant as an engineer, not PC repair

[fringe sphinx]

I think people need to practice how to fail an in person question. It’s not the answer, it’s how you handle it

(We are not just screening for what you know but whether we want to work with you!

[fervent grove]

how was ur interview tho?

[peak halo]

!ban 1111403609381421156 It appears you're only here to post weird conspiracy bullshit.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @radiant frost permanently.

[coral vine]

I think I did okay. I'd always pass the first problem under 15m but the second problem was always a dynamic programming problem. I didn't practice implementing that enough but I left pseudocode comments for how I thought about the logic. I'm not sure how bad that is that I never passed any test cases for the 2nd problem :/ but I understood how it would work in english. Just I can't program it in time Dx

[coral vine]

I feel like the online assessments are more stressful. It's like I'm alone in my bedroom of dreary. Haven't got the chance to speak with anyone from the company and then bam! Got to perform with a web cam watching. It's so impersonal. Confining.

But in-person, you can talk to people, feel more comfortable, be in an atmosphere where your mind feels more clear, and there aren't all these odd, distracting rules o.o

But that is just me. I get so nervous when it is so impersonal o.o

[muted bridge]

how should I get started with coding competitions? I'd like to compete in one before november, but I've never done one and I'm not sure what I should know before I get started

[crisp jewel]

Hello everyone hru? I'm considering starting my own cloud hosting provider buisness do you think anyone would actually use it? I would be at half the price of my competitors.

[pine sleet]

Depends on who your audience is / who you cater to

[fleet reef]

You have competitors?
Why exactly half that price?
Can you afford the infra cost at those prices?

[crisp jewel]

yes i did the math i can afford the infra cost at those prices

main issue i would have is getting customers i did consider a affiliate program to do so maybe

[crisp jewel]

the reason i choose half price is just to have an incentive for people to switch to my service vs an established one such as linode.

[buoyant seal]

if i would be wishing to half prices, i would have chosen Hetzner.
Because despite being cheap and somewhat minimal in provided features...
it is still... 100 times better than other low level providers
it has API for programmatic access https://docs.hetzner.cloud/
it has terraform provider to access its features https://registry.terraform.io/providers/hetznercloud/hcloud/latest/docs
it is cheapest provider among high quality providers 😁

I would be crazy to choose anything else. It is adequate provider capable to create and destroy servers within a minute automatically on click with hourly payments
choosing any other worse provider than that and getting hours/days time of awaiting to create/destroy server? no thanks, i draw my line at Hetzner 😁

[crisp jewel]

ok thank you that was what i was thinking aswell i don't think i will be doing this then

[buoyant seal]

most of users are poorly educated and use worse providers anyway 😄
but that happens because those worse providers invested into advertisements sufficiently

kind of question araises here 🙈 why they did not invest part of those investments into better services provided. More happy customers would arrive automatically

[smoky quest]

you can't really "choose" half price. Either you have some secret sauce to reduce the costs on your side, or you are paying for your own growth, which isn't really a great idea in the current market and is bound by the size of your bank account

[fringe sphinx]

I agree/empathize , I’m much older and would dread OA’s. I’m in ‘small tech’ and don’t rely as much on those filters. In person is a whole different experience.

[crisp jewel]

Well I still have great profit margins at half their price

[smoky quest]

What's the plan to provide the same level of service with half the price?

[modern ore]

A lot of companies do fully automated, and do resume screen after 🤔 and wont even look at your resume if you dont get X count

[harsh remnant]

I am lost on what to do. Yes, I am pursuing a Computer Science degree, but I am still lost on what I should be doing to get a job?

Specifically for internships

[true harness]

make a good resume + network then apply

with?

[harsh remnant]

Do normally internships have technical interview?

[smoky quest]

I would expect them

[modern ore]

leetcode, good projects, good resume, and if your'e lucky you can go to events like career fairs etc

[raw nest]

Mostly, Campus Recruitment focus more on theoretical knowledge and aptitude where I'm from. Off campus is different.

Most of all theory can only take you so far (🌝)

[glass orchid]

I'm getting my degree in pure maths (most of my 3rd/4th year is going to be number theory/algebra). I don't want to bet on the idea that I'm going to be able to get into a good PhD program and do maths research, so I'd like to learn related skill.

I've always loved programming, so data science seems like a good fit. (A bit of programming, a bit of math.)

Is a BA/BS in pure maths good enough for employment in data analytics/data science? Are people typically hiring computer science majors? The reason I ask is that a lot of the math required in these fields won't be covered in a CS degree. I have options to take additional stats classes for my major, so I can definitely do that, and I feel confident that I can learn Python/NumPy/Pandas in a couple of years of good work.

Just looking for advice so I'm not going all-in on the hope of a PhD 🙂

[hot crystal]

sa

print('hello world')

[iron crest]

Hi , I am looking for python based backend job opportunities in India, please suggest platforms other than LinkedIn and naukari , I need to grab a job in the next one month.

[wanton falcon]

guys

is there a poace to sponsor my discotd bot here?

[near remnant]

The place where I work, they came up with the idea that everyone should come to the office a few times a week. They hired me and many others on a full remote contract. I spoke with the CEO in person, face-to-face about this, and asked if, since almost everyone on my team lives far away, there's a chance we can continue working remotely. He said he thinks it could work yes, but let's talk about it later. What do you think?

[wary bay]

as

[wary bay]

print('bye world')

[gritty rivet]

Yeah, I wouldn't worry much at all about that. I suspect if you search LinkedIn you'll find loads of people who have taken that path, maybe even in your local area or from your same university. Go find them and get their advice

[gritty rivet]

What's to think? Hopefully he's reasonable and says yes. If not, you can decide to stay or to leave based on your wishes.

[hot crystal]

Kanka bunlar neden bu kadar noktalama isaretlerine dikkat ediyor

[wary bay]

Bilmiom ama ing geri donek

Ban yerizsimdi

[peak halo]

@hot crystal @wary bay only English is allowed

[wary bay]

Yup 🫡

[near remnant]

I don't know

[keen onyx]

import random user_inputs = [
"Hello",
"How are you?",
"What is your name?",
"What can you do?",
"Goodbye",
"What does the creator like to watch?",
"Tell me a joke.",
"What is your favorite color?",
"Do you have any hobbies?",
"What is your favorite food?",
"What does the creator like?",
"How to make Tea?",
"How to download Java minecraft for free?",
"You are a rip off ChatGPT",
"Is a youtuber named Dani depressed?",
"Muck.",
"Can you tell the creator's favourite music?"
]

ai_responses = [
"Hello!",
"I'm doing well, thank you.",
"My name is GoldAI!.",
"I can assist you in writing, answer questions, and provide information. But I don't have all functions.",
"Goodbye.",
"The creator enjoys watching dani a youtuber with a popular music video called K A R L S O N V I B E.",
"Why don't scientists trust atoms? Because they make up everything!",
"My favorite color is gold.",
"As an AI, I don't have hobbies in the traditional sense, but I enjoy helping people.",
"I don't eat, but if I had to choose, I'd say my favorite food is data.",
def generate_response(user_input):
if user_input in user_inputs:
index = user_inputs.index(user_input)
return ai_responses[index]
else:
return "Sorry i am not programmed to be able to answer that"

Main loop to receive user input and generate AI responses
while True:
user_input = input("Person: ")
response = generate_response(user_input)
print("GoldAI:", response)
if user_input == "Goodbye":
break
theres the code for an ai

[kindred oyster]

how is this relevant to this channel ??

[peak halo]

@keen onyx this is the career discussion channel, so please remove your message from here

[coral vine]

I just can’t believe that the second question was always a dynamic programming question. people online tend to say that you only have to worry about dynamic programming if you are applying to Google, so I didn’t really emphasize studying dynamic programming. then when I did the interviews for the companies, All of them had a dynamic programming question. Sigh :/ I want jobbooooooooo

[modern ore]

Google isn't known to ask Dynamic Programming on online assessments, but a lot of companies now a days do ask dynamic programming questions on OAs

The pool of competition is insane, the questions just get harder when you need to filter harder 😹

[coral vine]

Even JPMorgan Chase internship asked a dynamic programming problem. My friend got into that company without really even having to do any technical interview they just went to her school. It also seems like that company is willing to hire anybody, but still they even ask the dynamic programming question. Times are a changing?!??!

[modern ore]

@coral vine Well I think that might be different in events for example, dei events, they are willing to change the format a little bit. I heard from people they sometimes skip technical rounds in DEI events for straight up behaviorals. I know someone told me thats what happened to them in last year's slack summit event and (heard) GHC BOFA and GHC Google Deepmind 💀

[modern ore]

Yea I also got asked dp on jpmorgan

[coral vine]

Did you pass any of the test cases?

[modern ore]

Yea

[fringe sphinx]

That’s fascinating. Definitely a product of the rise of the OA, I’m skeptical of the value of these types of questions.

[coral vine]

I guess I should have focus more on passing at least one test case but I was more focused on passing all of the test cases, so in the end, I Passed no test cases for all of the DP questions. Eeeek

[modern ore]

tiktok asked me to write SQL, 2 decently LC mediums 💀 mfs were mad cuz it was so hard

hopefully I hear back 🙏

[true harness]

huh I didn't get dp for jpmc

[fringe sphinx]

What position were you applying where they asked SQL? I’m really out of touch with big tech OAs

[modern ore]

They have a generalized swe oa "generic", so to filter out they just threw in SQL for almost all positions except maybe front end idk

but my position was AI platforms. which was the same as the ones people got for like backend/monitization etc

[fringe sphinx]

Interesting, I guess I do ask sql questions if someone puts it in their resume

[modern ore]

What kind of SQL questions are you thinking of lol

Mine was like SQL leetcode 😹

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, I start easy with some data modeling and easy questions. Almost no new grads even get through those, much less a leetcode type.

[modern ore]

You hire new grads?

@fringe sphinx

[modern ore]

Yea bruteforce first then try to opimize 🤔

[coral vine]

Can dynamic programming be used as a way to solve a backtracking problem?

I’m a bit new to learning dp

[buoyant seal]

Ergh? U mean u was asked questions regarding stuff like Linked Lists, Stacks, Hashmaps, Graphs and etc?

[modern ore]

💀

This chat is hilarious

[buoyant seal]

https://www.engati.com/glossary/dynamic-programming
Google says it is using recursive functions to DSA and Leetcoding problems though 😅

[coral vine]

But backtracking problems can also be solved with dynamic programming methods?

[modern ore]

How many sub problems can a backtracking problem have lol

[late flame]

I've never worked there but I can't imagine a graphics engineering role wouldn't require a decent amount of SQL, REST and general DSA.

I think times may be changing because I was interviewing a month or so ago and all the questions I got seemed directly relevant to the work (or at least the concepts were). Not seeing a lot of balance a binary tree type questions.

[modern ore]

That’s for intern btw, and the questions were hard for 99% of the people who took it. It’s done purely for filtering

Also that’s for creative role lemme find it

[late flame]

Sure, but if the job needs SQL skills then filtering out people that don't have them makes sense. I'd expect an intern going for a top position to know this.

[ivory compass]

The job interviews can be for one language then when you get the job it's entirely different

[modern ore]

How do you think they are testing the sql skills lmao 🤣

[ivory compass]

I haven't done Python for about 95% of my time in this job even though all the questions they asked were Python related and backend

[late flame]

Ask an SQL question? I've tested for SQL before in interviews. It's a hackerrank right? They can set up a simple DB and just have candidates do a few queries.

[late flame]

What's your position? It definitely is weird to require a specific language in an interview and then not use it in the job. I do let people interview with their prefered language though so it's completely normal to interview in one and use a different one at work.

[modern ore]

The sql question was def in the harder end, even if you knew sql, and the assessment asked greedy/convex function (solvable with binary search) question, which I don’t think normal cs majors are solving for the coding portion but they were hidden really well, so they just want to filter candidates

[ivory compass]

It was for a Python developer job even said in the job posting but ended up doing frontend as no one in my team has frontend experience

[late flame]

Greedy algorithms are a second year concept, possibly earlier based on school. Binary search I think might be first year. Filtering out people that can't do binary search is good, becuase I wouldn't want to hire them.

[modern ore]

I feel like you’re being ignorant rn lmao

[late flame]

Ah, well that sucks. That's just a failure of management there. I hope you're still enjoying the job and getting good experience though.

[late flame]

In what way? The job listing: https://careers.tiktok.com/position/7265826882304837944/detail directly mentions algorithm design and AR engineering. That's tough stuff and you have to know the fundamentals for them.

[fringe sphinx]

Yes, frequently (ish): I’m in small tech, so our strategy has to be different than big tech.

[modern ore]

If you can’t tell the question is a convex function, you’re not be able to know it’s binary search or ternary search.

[late flame]

Do you have an example? I actually don't know what that question would look like.

[coral vine]

Teach me senpai

[modern ore]

Nah question got deleted Fromm leetcode they got nda sht

[late flame]

If you have a similar example that would be fine too. But I figure if the solution is binary search or something similar then it shouldn't be too hard.

[modern ore]

But it was kind of hard for people to figure out it was a convex function

[late flame]

I actually did interview with Tiktok a few weeks back for a senior engineering position. The questions seemed reasonable enough.

[modern ore]

But was also solvable with math but I know very few solved it

[modern ore]

Did you get an offer

[late flame]

Googling "convex function" gives me a mathematical concept. Is that what it is?

[modern ore]

Yeah

[ivory compass]

Do you need a degree for Big Tech or can you get past that by getting 2+ years of experience?

[late flame]

I ended up taking a different offer at a company that does AI for cancer research and cancer screening.

[late flame]

You need the degree. It's literally possible to get in without one, but you're just making it harder on yourself for no good reason.

[modern ore]

In my opinion greedy questions are harder than most algorithmic questions on OAs and interviews since most of the time you’re gonna be trying to prove you can do it greedily or get lucky with your guess and your solution actually works

[modern ore]

What did they ask you for senior role

[late flame]

Really? I find them to be easier since there's usually less state to deal with. DP is where I find it the most difficult because you have to keep so much in mind at once.

[modern ore]

But it always depends on the problem if the problem is obvious, you can easily solve both, it doesn’t matter if it’s binary search, greedy, or dp. It just depends on the problem 🛌

[late flame]

It was a suite of 4 interviews, outside of the screener. There was a high level systems design interview (i.e. what hardware pipeline do you need to build out this concept), a design based coding problem, a DP algorithm problem, and an overall culture fit interview (mostly talking about documentation, leading teams, tradeoffs of business decisions, etc.)

I've given interviews before, including to interns. Interns don't get system design interviews although they may be asked to a few questions around it. Culture fit is still there but we look for different things. Design problem and an algorithm problem are still there but we have lower standards or easier questions for them.

[modern ore]

Like it’s easier for senior for algorithmic problems?

[late flame]

I remember an old boss used to give "Make the popular app 2048 in front of me" (not actually phrased this way, and it's just the backend code with no regard for the frontend, working on phones, networking features, etc.). Junior engineers were expected to have a decent skeleton for the code. More senior ones should have the skeleton and an algorithm to solve for moving to one side only. He considered them really "brutal" coders if they completely finished the logic during the allotted 45 minutes. In my case I (and many others) ask open ended questions with options for variation so that you'll never actually finish because I can keep going. I really terrible question is one where they finish in ten minutes and then you're just sorta done.

[late flame]

The problems given to juniors are easy and we expect worse results from them. Seniors are given harder questions and we expect better results from them.

[fringe sphinx]

Big tech is weird tho, they’ll use a generic OA. In some companies, like google, you’re likely to not even work with the people who interviewed you. (Or so I’m told)

[modern ore]

Maybe Im out of touch but why would they ask seniors harder algorithmic questions like dp, greedy, binary search, if they have have industry experience, less exposure to the conventional dsa

we are talking about people who have less time in their hands to practice leetcode lol

[late flame]

It makese sense to be a bit more generic since the needs of the job can change so much. When you join Google you don't join a specific team, you join Google. You'll probably move around teams so you need to be a generally good engineer, and that's what they test for.

Also the way it works at Google is you get interviewed by 4 or 5 people that are unrelated to the role, then their notes are sent to a different team of 4 or 5 people that are also not related to the role and they decide what happens. It's meant to reduce bias, but it does mean you can't ask specific questions for a role.

When I interviewed at Google it was part of a buyout. I and 20 other engineers were all going through the same questions and the interviewers literally had no idea we were there together. When we started to plan out carpooling to get home an interviewer overheard us and went "Wait you guys know each other?". It's just how it is at that scale.

[late flame]

harder algorithmic questions like greedy or binary search

The reason is because those questions are honestly just not that hard. If you have 10+ years of quality engineering work under your belt then you should know enough to answer the question even if you haven't directly used or studied the concept lately because it all goes back to good engineering fundamentals.

And you have to ask senior engineers this stuff because anyone can just put things on a resume. Some of the absolute worst code I've seen were from people with 20 years of experience on their resume.

[ivory compass]

What do you define as 10+ years of quality engineer work. What sort of experience should one chase to get that kind of quality experience?

[modern ore]

I am not saying generally greedy or binary search is harder, I am giving you an example of what i mean by algorithms beacause algoritmns can be any way to solve a problem, but I am specifically talking about the conventional ones. I feel like you have a weird prospection of these questions because a hard question wont tell you that they want you to use x,y,z. But my original question is why would they ask seniors harder DSA questions compared to interns/juniors if the interns/juniors have no qualifications besides degree etc

[late flame]

Just seek out challenging work and put a lot of effort into doing it well. That means testing, documentation, optimization, etc. When you're early in your career definitely ask your manager for how you can grow your skills and experience.

[late flame]

I feel like you have a weird prospection of these questions because a hard question wont tell you that they want you to use x,y,z.

Every single question I have ever asked or been asked, even as an intern, is like this. In my second year I got an internship question to create a solver for snakes and ladders, and it's literally just a BFS question. It doesn't tell you this, but if you think of each position on the board as a node then it becomes pretty simple to make the jump from there.

interns/juniors have no qualifications besides degree etc

Even interns should know this stuff to some level.

I think you have this idea that these questions are inherently difficult to a high degree. They're not. I can't think of a single person in my uni class that couldn't answer these questions by 2nd year.

Do you have an example of a question or a set of questions that you think a) are asked to interns and b) are unfair to them? We haven't actually looked at a specific question or how it's worded so I can't tell how difficult they really are.

[modern ore]

What school did you go to, now I am curious

but I agree snakes and ladders is obvious BFS, but most questions wont be giving you an arrow like that. I am also curious did you come up with the formula during your interview to get to the coord in o(1), personally I wouldn't be able to get it during 2nd year lol, i suck at math?

https://leetcode.com/problems/number-of-ways-to-form-a-target-string-given-a-dictionary/description/ I think I got this question in one of my OAs @late flame

https://leetcode.com/problems/minimum-distance-to-type-a-word-using-two-fingers/ this one is a easy one but they got this on a tesla interview for intern

[ivory compass]

I'd rather questions given at interviews for juniors would be , ok here's our product. Create a product similar to ours and deploy it. Then explain the reasons you chose this system design and what could be improved. Give them like a few days. Isn't that a good idea?

[late flame]

I like to keep my real life a bit separate from my online life, but I will say it was in the top 15 for computer engineering when I went.

[modern ore]

💀

top 15 is insane, so i can see why you say any component cs major can do x y and z

[late flame]

You're basically asking them to spend hours if not days to apply to your company, while a competitor would only need 1 hour. You'll just drive away a lot of people doing that.

[ivory compass]

ah yeah forgot about that

my thinking was people get maybe like 1 or 3 interviews a month

[late flame]

The best candidates get lots of interviews so they have less time to spend on that sort of thing.

[modern ore]

@late flame https://leetcode.com/problems/minimum-number-of-taps-to-open-to-water-a-garden/description/ someone ik also got asked this on their interview recently

[late flame]

These both seem pretty reasonable to ask. Backtracking is the main concept for the first one, second one doesn't even need any fancy data structures.

[modern ore]

Backtracking? its dp 🤔

[late flame]

I didn't go to MIT, but here's their open courseware on their algorithm course and it looks pretty similar to the one I took: https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/6-006-introduction-to-algorithms-spring-2020/pages/lecture-notes/. These are all concepts you learn in one class in one semester.

[late flame]

Yeah backtracking was a term we used around DP sometimes. I don't think it's common though, I didn't find it in that MIT course.

[modern ore]

yeah the second one is pretty straight forward

[late flame]

I haven't tested it out but I think greedy algorithm is fine here? Pick a tap that covers the largest area and covers at least 1 area that hasn't been covered already. Repeat.

[modern ore]

from what I am understanding from your description, I dont think that always leads to the minimal

[late flame]

It might not but I can't think of an edge case that doesn't work.

[coral vine]

so all dynamic programming problems can be solved with backtracking

but not all backtracking problems can be solved with dynamic programming?

[modern ore]

There is a cf grandmaster on the algo chat lol I really recommend him imo

[coral vine]

😮 #algos-and-data-structs ? what's their name? I guess it is time to go back to studying GTCI !

[modern ore]

fiery frumpy fenix, pajenegod, elteammate

[fringe sphinx]

Ouch, that hurts 😉

[fringe sphinx]

I try to find one thing one a resume that the candidate can speak to in depth. I don’t think I need to add an assignment or homework to gauge this type of knowledge.

This is why projects are important: it gives interviewer something to ask about, and something you should be able to explain your decisions, tradeoffs, etc in depth

[vapid jay]

Html >>Python?

[modern ore]

i agree

[buoyant seal]

• Working in some high load infrastructure
• With good monitoring observability
• and nice CI CD
• Working in a team with people making quality code review
• And capable to write clean code and architecture. (Unit testing is critical must.. other things kind of depends... I would say typing eventually becomes critical too for rapid work at some point... it unlocks properly architecturing code at least and spending less time reading and integrating with other parts and quicker refactoring)
• experience working with large code bases
  ====
  High load makes more quality challenges and better learning. (Every tool is pushed to its limits. Every code is written with keeping scalability in mind)

CI CD and good monitoring makes rapid feedback of your work, u just progress faster, because having more tools to react, integrate and do job (and ship code) faster

Properly unit testing code is a must as minimum for rapid moving forward (CI is impossible without it). Other things from code quality can be desired in addition, but kind of more optional in nature

For 10+ quality years, I would expect person long ago mastered typed and clean architectured code writing though and worked with it on massive enough code bases. Sufficient massive code bases often enough can force teams to use better architecture designs by default 🤔 Or may be just aim for more maintainability of a code

Progress can be magnitudes faster with good cooperation and knowledge sharing. So team and code reviews can be important too. 10 quality years expect certain level of achieved soft skills :/

[vapid jay]

How do I start a tech repair shop

[smoky quest]

the same way than any other business.
What's your plan so far?

[fossil arrow]

https://screenshare.pics/IJFX47

mb

[pine sleet]

This is not the channel for memes

[fossil arrow]

mbmb wrong server

[somber pawn]

It might be a stupid question, but how is that possible to work on CPython and still get paid?
Do I need to be hired by a company to work on CPython or are there any other ways?

[buoyant seal]

U mean on Cpython itself, as in working with C to develop python language?

[true harness]

that's the most common situation, i believe. some devs are sponsored

[somber pawn]

develop python language

[buoyant seal]

Google recently pledged 5 more dev full time man power or smth as long as CPython accepts disabling GIL 😁 (p.s. it was accepted to be done in already specific future python releases)

[somber pawn]

hmm, but can they hire you to work on Cpython in the first place?

[fringe sphinx]

Wasn’t that meta?

[white relic]

What do you mean "can they hire you"? If they wanted to, who would stop them?

[buoyant seal]

My mistake, it was meta

[buoyant seal]

Perhaps u should check a list of companies contributing to CPython. Should be public list probably

[digital fjord]

I would expect a company that wants dev power for CPython would rather hire an existing contributor/core dev, or simply pick someone internally. Opening a position specifically for a new hire for CPython contribution sounds quite unusual to me.

[buoyant seal]

U do realize, they will highly likely just redirect some experienced devs to use some hours in Jira tasks for CPython?
Or at least redirecting hours of some... qualified enough developer 🤔

I am sure for like 99.99% that juniors aren't going to bу put to work on CPython

[buoyant seal]

Essentially here is the learning curve... of IT different technologies.
Before participating developing CPython

u are expected to master doing projects beyond middle level
having opened pull requests to the CPython or smth similar already before that
having created your own libraries or languages...

[boreal orchid]

is react + python as backend a good career option

to get job as self learned dev

[vapid jay]

do you guys own a personal portfolio website? if yes, link it, i wanna draw inspiration from them

[plush summit]

Are courses you have followed on ademy good to show and how much do they make a difference in your aplication Just wondering

[harsh river]

they're not good to show imo, however the applications or project you make do make the difference

[smoky quest]

It's like reading a book. Saying you read that book on your resume won't help with anything. But the projects and applications unlocked with that knowledge can be quite useful

[ivory compass]

Some courses that may say stuff like "All you need to know about React to become a paid developer!" will not show you the things that you will face at the job like scalability

I'd show projects instead of courses especially one similar to the company

[ivory compass]

I think it's a good option. Python is good for many things and React is very popular.

[hollow pawn]

The muffin man

[late pewter]

https://www.reddit.com/r/learnprogramming/comments/16bwq7n/the_harsh_reality_of_pursuing_a_career_as_a/

[hexed wraith]

Guys, i am considering a bootcamp that has a good structure such as workshops, assignments etc. I am looking to start a career in Devops. My background is Python and Mysql only and i am a recent graduate with no work experience and a complete beginner in programming. I heard a bootcamp called Nucamp is good, but after researching it seems to have mixed reviews. I tried searching online for a good start for devops but there is so much idk where to start exactly. Would really appreciate some guidance on how to begin my career in Devops so i can get into an internship or entry level job. If there is a good bootcamp or courses that can help guarantee a job in Devops, wether its free or not, i am willing to commit.

sorry for the long message, thanks!.

[worthy blade]

gay

[brave swallow]

may i ask which country you in? if its too personal you are not obliged to answer

[hasty copper]

anyone from BBA ?

or BBA in IT? please dm meeee🥲

[white relic]

Bachelor of Business Administration in IT?

[night river]

My baby cat python game is going bad

[white relic]

This channel is about careers. Try #1035199133436354600

[night river]

Yes it is my full time work rn

[white relic]

That doesn't matter

[wet sandal]

guys how to start money as a python

[near ocean]

Get a job

[plush summit]

Just go to the zoo and you will get a free house and food 🙂

[worldly valve]

Hello everyone, I am working on a Social Media app(details of which will be given to you if you are interested) so currently I am the only person working in python backend, we need one more person to work with Django in docker, if you have experience and interested then ping me.
We will work on weekends and have coding sessions, would be a great learning experience and for sure a good CV project, so if you have previous experience in making django projects and interested ping me

[untold herald]

!rule ad

[inner wren]

Sorry, an unexpected error occurred. Please let us know!

ClientConnectorError: Cannot connect to host site.default.svc.cluster.local:80 ssl:default [Connect call failed ('10.128.90.73', 80)]

[lapis wind]

[untold herald]

Well, rule ad = no advertising, refer to #rules for full text

[worldly valve]

Okay, sorry

[wet sandal]

[fringe sphinx]

Are you asking how to get a first software development job, programming Python? Tell us a bit about yourself, as our answer very much depends on your background, education and knowledge

[wet sandal]

I am a beginner,who strive to be a expert python in the future

[fringe sphinx]

Great... I think there's a few things to ask about: How to get to "expert"? What else you need to know (besides Python)? And, what are the requirements for different jobs in tech (there are many jobs in tech... some are easier to get into than others)?

[fringe sphinx]

But, right now, all beginners should (in my opinion) start with a tutorial and simple projects. Here are two links to get you started:

!tutorial A Byte of Python and Automate the Boring Stuff are good starters

[wet sandal]

You are so sweet, OMG

[fringe sphinx]

!resources Oops, this link

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[fringe sphinx]

!kindling Has project ideas. The only way to get "good" is to write code. Start simple.

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[fringe sphinx]

And if you get stuck on a problem or have a question, please ask at #python-discussion . There's always someone who can help

[wet sandal]

When do you think I can be ready for job?

[vapid jay]

guys i need a admin/mod

[fringe sphinx]

In terms of a job: Depends on the job. Software Engineers typically have a 4 year computer science degree, but there are other jobs with lower entry requirements where programming knowledge is helpful, like QA (testing), operations and support. I suggest looking at job postings on LinkedIn and looking at their requirements.

[fringe sphinx]

Message ModMail please

[vapid jay]

how

[fringe sphinx]

@ symbol and ModMail

[vapid jay]

@severe widget

[fringe sphinx]

Err sorry, I meant, go to the user list and DM ModMail

[true harness]

that doesn't actually do anything. dm it

[vapid jay]

i sent the dm

[wet sandal]

Thank you so much. @fringe sphinx I would do my best to make you proud

[shell pagoda]

Hello, im finding someone to make some Python project with me like a practice. Im learner and i finished with python basics. I would love to make some easy projects like bots, webscrapers etc. As my native language is not English, I would also like to learn more English alongside . If someone is interested dm me pls. Someone who is really motivated to learn python and wont give up….

[analog sun]

Hello, your message was removed for violating rule 6. If you think this was a mistake, please send a DM to @severe widget . You can read the server rules again at #rules

[outer granite]

What does having a PhD grant you in terms of job and career opportunities?

[sand grotto]

hm

[analog sun]

Hey there, I removed your messages from this channel for being off topic, as well as meme dropping (for which we have no channel appropriate for that)

[sand grotto]

cate

[sand grotto]

whar

[maiden shore]

Hi,
I want to be a rebotic Engineer
including all stuff like A.I , machine learning,structure , machine , controlling, movement etc
So what I have to study ?

[deft herald]

Robotics 🙂 I've seen some university programs with that exact title.

If you want to specialize though, you can do one or any combination of
Mechanical Engineer
Electrical Engineer
Mechatronics
Computer Science

[deft herald]

There probably aren't too many "Robotics Engineer" degree programs though, so i would get a bachelors in MechE, EE, or CS. You may be able to find some post-graduate programs for Mechatronics or Robotics specifically

[white relic]

A PhD generally gets you opportunities in research and academic positions in your field of specialization which you wouldn't be eligible for without one. Depending on the field this may be very important or not really at all. In most engineering fields, a PhD is essentially an optional extra, you can have a full and successful career with just a BS (although an MS may help). In physics, you don't even start to climb the ladder until you have a PhD

[outer granite]

In the domain of Computer Science, I mean.

I want to pursue research in future, but I want to know if it is beneficial financially as well?

[true harness]

compared to working as an SWE without a PhD, not at all

[pastel thunder]

its going crazy day by day,
I recieved my sodexo today, By the virtue of HR, it had the name,credentials of colleague who didnt apply for those coupons.
What i am most concerned is:

• money for sodexo wasnt deducted from my salary
• I was getting higher salary then my colleague
• My colleague was getting this allowance cut from salary but i was getting the benifit(didnt use so far though)
• It was me who informed them ,They has no fucking clue

Now i wonder if i was silent i would have kept on getting double the allowance, while the other colleague would infact have kept getting lower than he deserves

my company is full of lazy boomers