career-advice

[hearty island]

even if it's just a lame hirevue interview

[buoyant seal]

at platform Italki, every online teacher made similar short video interview for introduction to students (among which i was 😄 )
it was useful to select teacher
not a guarantee u will not encounter a scam teacher though.

[near ocean]

Hirevue type "interviews" are a red flag imho

First of all its not even an interview

How are you supposed to ask questions if there's no one there to answer?

[gilded valley]

for grads, it's whatever. it's basically demonstrating that you're capable of passing as a human. my last company used to do them, and they would take an age for us to go through

[fringe sphinx]

What is it? Just a video recording of you answering a few questions?

[near ocean]

Yep

[true harness]

ya

[gilded valley]

yeah

[near ocean]

You could do this with a short call
Why would a grad spend time to film a one sided interview when they could use that time to do other productive things, send more apps, learn things, etc
And why would an experienced dev bother with video interviews
Im not sure what their purpose is

Youre going to spend man hours whether its reviewing the footage or talking to candidates, why not go for the more humane approach

[gilded valley]

you go through 8 of these things in an hour - no way can you do that with a short call

purpose is the exact same as the intro call you have w/ experienced hires - it's just that you have much higher throughput.

I had a friend who missed the deadline for a couple of them because he was too lazy to iron a shirt, so they do filter people out

(ironing a shirt was probably just an excuse - but he did submit a couple of them late)

[fringe sphinx]

Screening calls usually eat up 20-30 minutes of my time, even if I know within first 10 minutes (or even first 3) that it's a no-go. Perhaps I could be more abrupt about terminating them, but I do feel bad.

[gilded valley]

I guess the difference is how much emphasis gets placed on the CV - and given that it's mostly students with little to put on their CV, this way almost seems fairer.

Give them 2 minutes to talk about a group project they did rather than putting too much emphasis on the CV they struggled to find relevant things for

don't get me wrong - if someone asked me to do one of these now, I would think considerably worse of the company - but for first job type things, this is fine. Gives people more opportunity to succeed

[halcyon sage]

i would take the job if offered, but it would be a quick stepping stone to my next company that treated people like people

[gilded valley]

I had a first round interview with a guy who asked me 2 questions (that I don't think I possibly could have given bad answers to, they were things like "tell me about this random thing on your CV" where I had reasonable knowledge) and he had clearly already decided against me after 5m - but he gave the half-arsed offer of "do you have any questions for me or about the company?". I didn't want to throw away my chances so I dragged it out by asking him questions for another 15m.

No matter how it ended, I was going to think the guy was a prick, but I would have much preferred it if he had just ended it quicker rather than putting any more onus on me to try and succeed where it wasn't possible

[hearty island]

i'm still going to do the hirevue interview. if they're going to throw me a bone, i will gladly take it

[smoky quest]

or maybe they were trying to see if they were wrong?

[gilded valley]

it's possible, but asking 2 questions which were along the lines of "tell me about the path you took to your current role" and "tell me about XYZ project." he was done asking questions - and I have no hook to demonstrate any skills he thinks I'm lacking.

the only thing I'm getting at is: him saying "sorry, we're looking for someone more experienced/a more specialist skillset/someone who went to a better university" , maybe another time would have been a much better experience for me, and saved him 20m. I don't want to waste energy if it's clear I'm not a fit

[smoky quest]

but yeah, 2 questions is extremely short.

[daring sphinx]

Interviewing for a Software Engineer II position tomorrow, wish me luck

[deft herald]

Good luck

[hearty island]

final round?

[vapid jay]

Is competitive programming something I should try to spend time on or is it better to just focus on attending courses and uni?

[deft herald]

no; yes

Competitive programming often relies on very bad practices for real world programming

It's a good way to develop bad habits

[vapid jay]

what? Im confused😅

[balmy spade]

If you enjoy puzzle solving and competition then they are fun and stretch your ability to think fast.

[tender frost]

It can be helpful in understand nitty-gritty details of a language, but those details something you need in the real world, and what's good in competitive program isn't necessary good in the real world

E.g. competitive coding often encourages one-line short-as-possible code, but you nearly never want that in the real world because you want the readability

[daring sphinx]

No, first in-person interview.

[balmy spade]

Yeah. "Will I use this solution in a production environment?" Probably not.
Are the tricks and ways of thinking through a problem to the simplest form helpful? Yes. It's practise. It's writing code. That's what you need to do. :D

[vapid jay]

hmm that makes sense, but I would also be attending college and working on projects which might help me in aspects that competitive programming might lack

[daring sphinx]

I feel like I've improved by doing the #revival-of-code challenges, but more by doing them and looking at other people's answers.

[vapid jay]

or do u think that I will just unconsciously be affected in certain ways in programming

[daring sphinx]

Personally I think you'll have fewer bad habits by practicing than by not practicing.

[vapid jay]

I'm thinking of practicing for a year or two so that I can gain the good habits and then stop and focus on any bad habits then

[balmy spade]

Let any project you're building define what bad habits need to be addressed. That's my opinion. If you're working with a team, they will guide your hand. If you are working alone then your past self with be the guide.
Write bad code, learn, write less bad code, repeat.

[fringe sphinx]

I don’t have a concrete opinion here, but it reminds me of how chess players say playing bullet chess is bad for classical, and vice versa

[daring sphinx]

This is a facetious answer but: The fastest way to learn good habits is by making mistakes with bad ones. You could train for a year to write unit tests, or you could massively embarrass yourself by breaking a release when you decided to skip writing one. You'll never do that again.

[balmy spade]

You can fall prey to firing from the hip. This is a benefit and a hinderance depending on where you are. I'm very much a fire from the hip mentality. I rely on my team to slow me down.
(to the chess comparison it's just moving a piece too fast when time is on the clock)

[daring sphinx]

Along these lines, ultimately practicing what you want to do will make you better at the specific thing you want to do... but cross-training with something a little different can open up some new ways of looking at things, I think.

Ultimately, the job will never allow you to stop learning, so you won't have much choice in the matter.

[balmy spade]

The choice is always yours. :) Choose to keep learning. Life is so boring when you stop moving.

[vapid jay]

That's very true

Thank you all for your help and insight

[daring sphinx]

Speaking of learning, I had a technical screening for this interview that was a fairly small programming challenge, no time limit. It was to set up an API running in a docker container, read in some CSVs, process them, and save the summarized results to a database. My last job didn't really use containerization, so I spent a couple of days getting up to speed on docker and finished it all. I'm hoping they view that as a positive, rather than being like the company that turned me down because I'd worked with Google Cloud and not AWS at my last job.

In my view, the job is to be able to learn things, and not to have the exact set of experience they want coming in the door. Not every recruiter agrees, though.

[smoky quest]

In general, yes.
But there are cases where they are hiring a senior engineer for the purpose of bringing in such skills. And your ability to learn such skill wouldn't be helpful since you wouldn't be able to teach others and bring in your experience with such skills

[buoyant seal]

https://youtu.be/BgxklT94W0I

"sometimes we have a competition to write the longest list comprehension...and sometimes it's in production...and sometimes we don't call it a competition but work"

[balmy spade]

Many get this mythical idea that the code we write in production, for a job, is all that different than code we write elsewhere. It isn't. It just needs to pass the review process which isn't a guarantee to exist. Code has to work. It has to do what is asked. Only the devs see the source.

[buoyant seal]

The good, the bad and the ugly.

Often enough code standards are quite low to accommodate average level of devs in a company.
I just wonder that it works and somehow gets developed further 😃
Miracles of every day life

[balmy spade]

Miracles are DNS tables. :P

Programmers are often pragmatic. If it works, ship it. The only time I pause my team is if they've gone 90 degrees from the existing code. Then we pull it back, look at how other pieces work, and their next PR is usually a third of the size.

[smoky quest]

It is different though.
The code you write for a phd paper is very different than the code you have to be able to read and understand and maintain at 3am during an outage

[balmy spade]

I can't confirm or deny so I will take your word for it. I've written code for myself and for a company. I haven't written code for a school.

[smoky quest]

It doesn't mean one cannot hold themselves to a specific standard.

But if you take different purposes (phd paper, production, cli tool, etc.), one could see different patterns or styles emerging

[marsh wind]

Writing code for paper!= code for school

[balmy spade]

I appreciate the correction. Not something I'm familliar with.

[marsh wind]

It's just that the environment is vastly different and that at times you are writing a one off piece of garbage because you know it'll never be looked at

And usually when it's about producing results there's no such thing as acceptance testing, code review, or any sort of automated testing for that matter.... Unless you want to publish your code along with the paper or you are making OSS contributions from your work

[marsh wind]

Tbh this happens at work too.... But less often

[balmy spade]

What are we defining as producing results? Code I write on the daily "produces results" and must, at a minimum, pass a code review. This will obviously vary depending on your company/job/etc

[marsh wind]

And we call that technical debt

[marsh wind]

Well. Say you want to simulate how a certain quantum system behaves under particular influence. Like a beam of electrons. For that you need to run some calculation that will produce a spectrum. Spectrum is a result or a means to a conclusion that is a result.

Say you have an existing code that can make that calculation but it doesn't account for some special effect relevant to your system. So you go into that code, you break 95% of it in order to account for your particular case.... You produce your result, publish a paper and that ugly piece of broken but working software will never see the light of day. At best you collegue will look at it with you and say that it seems to do what you try to dk

[balmy spade]

On one hand I feel like we could draw a hard line between one-off and reuse. However, even in your one-off case the code already existed and wasn't expandable. I can relate because I see that quite often in the data science areas of the company I work with.

Perhaps a spicy take but the closer to data science I get the more code is treated as a means to the end. Only to be discarded. For those that do that it's quite a disservice to themselves and the next dev.

So you go into that code, you break 95% of it in order to account for your particular case....

That just feels like the wrong way to approach something that is a tool for the field.

[marsh wind]

Well I, by no means am trying to defend this approach 😂 95% is an exaggeration of course... And yes it's a wrong way but sometimes we don't have choice

You are very much right on most accounts, both on disservice for future devs and the fact that it reminded you data science people 😁

[balmy spade]

It does circle back to my statement. Purely self experience driven: Those that write code to be discarded do so for the majority of code they write. Those that write code to be reused, even their one-offs, do so for the majority of the code they write. I find a change in the way someone codes on-the-clock versus off-the-clock to be rare.

[balmy spade]

It's a tricky thing, isn't it though? Data science isn't software engineering and vice-versa. Add to it the endless need for a company to force us to wear many hats. You said it, you might not have the time needed.
dreams of a world a DS team has access to dedicated SEs

[marsh wind]

It is tricky indeed. Anyway it's midnight here but I d love to continue this conversation at more reasonable hour

[balmy spade]

g'nite.

[fringe sphinx]

I dunno, I regularly deal with both types of workflows. For DS / experimental stuff, the prototype is often to blaze new ground or test a theory and is generally written as a throw away. "[Y]ou should plan to throw one away. You will anyway." - Fred Brooks, Mythical Man Month

That said, the second time around, we'll productize and refine it. Usually it's throwing away some hastily written notebook and replacing with correctly factored code.

[balmy spade]

I can't subscribe to that. Even something like what I wrote today is build to be expanded, maintained, and reusable. Given it was a one-off to splat six sources of data together into one table for manual processing, I could have written it to throw it away.
Choice, probably... it probably just comes down to choice. I emulate those around me so, of course, I don't see much difference. That's why it's important for me to always be curious. Got to look outside the box often!

[fringe sphinx]

That example is somewhat funny to me, for a few reasons. The DE side we treat differently: we have extensive scaffolding in place for data ingestion and processing. Any new data source/feed/whatever all goes into a pretty well thought through and reusable pipeline... so we def don't one-off that stuff, because nearly everything ends up being reused there.

[balmy spade]

It is humours to me how often my job would be made simpler if i had a datalake to draw from. ;)

[fringe sphinx]

I know I've oft repeated my love for duckdb. It's truly a miracle for much of the problems I face.

[balmy spade]

But this was the classic one-off. "hey, we're letting a few hundred people go. We need to correlate their accounts, cmdb items, service registry, aws hub, etc and figure out what will break when the week ends."

Spoiler: a lot.

[fringe sphinx]

I assume spoiler spoiler is: "And it's all Preocts problem now"

[balmy spade]

Thankfully not. Their circus, their problem. I just adopt the monkeys that escape.

Spinning it all back to careers. Build bad code, learn from what you built, build less bad code, and repeat. The cycle only ends when you stop writing code! It requires being curious and driven. Self-anecdotally; those two traits are what keep me going when I'd have stopped long ago.

[hearty island]

goddamnit, the role at jpm pays less than the one i already have

RO?

no no i have to do the first round interview for jpm, i googled the salary and it’s less than what i’ll earn at my other job (if i take it)

nah it’s not swe

and yeah i got the RO from my internship already

[hearty island]

it’s just so frustrating, i’m not breaking my back waking up for nyc at 5 in the morning to make $62.5k

[jaunty sphinx]

ok y'all

i need to lock in

[smoky quest]

You may want to try an off topic channel

[mint oracle]

Ohho sorry it think it general

[smoky quest]

it's a python server. non-python questions would go to off topic

[mint oracle]

Okay I am thinking to try myself first then ask later

[tired verge]

this guy is very funny. I really like the emacs one. I want to make a tee shirt from his statement "Yeh, I fraught in the vim emacs wars"

i mean https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urcL86UpqZc&t=3s

not many people are old enough to know about the vim emacs wars. Most of them died in the dungeon and dragon wars.

[slow raft]

guys, i have less than 1 year of business analyst experience and not long ago also completed a bootcamp in data science where i learnt some python (pandas, numpy, scikit learn, seaborn, matplotlib). But, now i'm inclining towards a developer position. Which tech/ tool/ framework should i learn now to get a job as soon as possible (currently unemployed so can study for upto 8/9 hours a day).

[smoky quest]

frontend might be the easisest point of entry? So frontend tech

[slow raft]

so i should learn js and then react/ angular etc? I tied learning react once but didn't like it at all

[smoky quest]

I would suggest to figure out what you like first and what you want as a career/job.
So take some time to try things out rather than aiming for a job directly

[slow raft]

thinking of something python related

[smoky quest]

without trying first, you will run into the same loop

[worn tendon]

Need help.

Any job websites that give job to recent graduates or interns or some stuff like that ? I have no experience and every job requires experience for some reason.

[smoky quest]

indeed or linkedin are great

[tropic cargo]

hey guys is this course is good for beginners ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uQrJ0TkZlc&t=108s

[smoky quest]

that's a question for #python-discussion

[smoky quest]

fyi, you should target entry level jobs as they do not require experience

[worn tendon]

Where can I find, even entry level job requires 1 year experience

[smoky quest]

if I go to indeed or linkedin and look for entry level, I see plenty of jobs that do not require years of experience.
by definition entry level are people without experience

[marsh wind]

it really depends on lot of factors, mainly where you are situated, what is your background/degree, what's your exposure to these fields... etc

[void glade]

How do I start ethnical hacking like that guy I keep seeing all over my fyp

[proven crest]

You'll probably want to look into a cyber security course

[worn tendon]

How

[worn tendon]

Hackthebox

[gritty rivet]

TryHackMe is a another fun site, maybe a little easier to start with then HackTheBox. After that you can also look into studying for certifications like CEH or PenTest+

[velvet lintel]

hello I am learning pyhton I want to be a data scientist I am from turkey is there anyone who can help me ?

My dream is to work for a company in the US after learning data science and to have a better life than in Turkey.

[peak halo]

@velvet lintel there's not a whole lot of consistency in what a "data scientist" is, but if you want a position where you do data analysis and modeling, you will need at least a bachelors and probably a masters. Especially if you want to compete with US citizens for US positions.

[velvet lintel]

I don't have a license, unfortunately, but can't I get what I want by learning and working well?

[peak halo]

Is a license the same as a degree? You should get one.

Can I get what I want by learning and working well, without a degree?
Almost certainly not.

If you want positions other than those in data science, that might make a degree less important.

[velvet lintel]

it made me sad because I thought I could achieve what I wanted by working hard.

[celest kite]

Serious Stel 007. License. To. Code....

[peak halo]

You can achieve it by working hard, in the form of getting a data science-related degree.

[velvet lintel]

What are the most open positions in software in python language in the USA ?

[peak halo]

that don't involve any amount of data science/AI? probably web development, but I don't have experience in that space.

[celest kite]

Note* open positions are not the same as interesting positions

[velvet lintel]

my goal is to improve myself in data analysis, to improve myself further with an internship somewhere and to have a profile that will fit the standards of companies

[celest kite]

Web dev would bore me to death... I'd rather... Do just about anything else

[velvet lintel]

I really want to do this because I need to change my life and I want to come to the United States as a skilled person with a job instead of coming as an unskilled person or as a refugee because I have a child and a wife to take care of.

[hearty island]

would you guys take a lower paying offer from jpmorgan chase just for the prestige?

[fringe sphinx]

I can't speak to the entire market. The best advice I can offer is: be a well-rounded software engineer. Trying to specialize early is a recipe for frustration. Entry-level college graduates rarely get their pick of positions or assignments. By well-rounded, I include stuff like missing semester and adjacent technologies cs50x weeks.

One of the best pieces of advice I heard recently was: if you want to get to the "next level" as a python programmer, then: watch recent conference videos, such as EuroPython and PyCon. This will expose you to current topics in the field.

[near ocean]

i've only heard bad things for jpm, pass

[hearty island]

but isn't that anecdotal

[gritty rivet]

As a non-resident, coming to the US as a student and getting a degree here is considerably easier then getting a job here. With no degree and no experience you have zero chances of getting hired here.

I have personally known a number of graduate students who brought their families here from Turkey as students. Their tuition and living expenses were covered by their assistantships. Most of them had their undergrad degrees from Turkey. You could also come here for your undergrad degree but that would probably be pretty difficult without financial resources

[sour raptor]

can someone help me please 🙏

[gritty rivet]

The best way to know what's really possible and how is to get on LinkedIn, look for anyone who may have accomplished what you are trying to accomplish, and ask them about how they did it

[gritty rivet]

If you have a career question you're in the right place to go ahead and ask, for anything else see #❓｜how-to-get-help

[sour raptor]

what career

[dense mesa]

There's not going to be solid data for experiences working at a company, Glassdoor is a close proxy but has been know to be unreliable

[hearty island]

https://youtu.be/9E0cCNZ-eEI pretty good vid

[lone wigeon]

Has anyone ever been hired through here? Just wondering

[hearty island]

https://tenor.com/view/we-dont-do-that-here-black-panther-tchalla-bruce-gif-16558003

[velvet lintel]

So by learning this language and gaining experience, can I find a job in America and settle there?

[hearty island]

damnit, i was going to apply at an investment bank and it requested my sat score doc

[woeful wharf]

Guys, anyone have telegram groups for python developers as a beginning or mastering

[true harness]

yikes

[hearty island]

i don't even have my old email account so i didn't apply, rip

[true harness]

depends what you mean by "through". i got advice which i would say helped me get hired

[hearty island]

dang, insta rejected by morgan stanley after extensively tailoring my resume

[mint oracle]

can u share ur resume

[hearty island]

nah i think i know what i did wrong, plus it has nothing to do w cs

it was a human resources role that i had no experience for and bsing for it didn't help

[mint oracle]

Okay!

I wanted the reward and not the struggle. I wanted the result and not the process. I was in love with not the fight but only the victory, and that's not how life works......
I found this quote pretty good!

[hearty island]

well i do be struggling

[mint oracle]

Same some born for struggle

[hearty island]

i'm gonna do my hirevue interview with jpmorgan today

[mint oracle]

Great!

[mint oracle]

role?

[hearty island]

some type of management analyst role

[mint oracle]

ur experience

[hearty island]

huh?

[knotty wind]

Hey, my manager isn't from a tech background and is more of a math guy and people person. We're building an analytical web app, and he wants to store all tables in data frames (RAM) rather than a database. No matter how much I try to convince him about the benefits of using a database, such as data persistence, he's adamant about not proceeding with it. Unfortunately, the situation worsens as our application encounters memory-exceeded errors whenever we attempt to upload a 200 MB .csv file.

How can i make him change his mind?

[mint oracle]

your experience in industry or u r fresher

[hearty island]

oh i’m fresh out of college come may 2024

i’ve done multiple internships though, that’s probably what got me the interview

[mint oracle]

Great!

[mint oracle]

r u from?

[hearty island]

US

[fringe sphinx]

Not really a querstion for this channel, try #python-discussion . There are many "it depends" with figuring out data persistence. Some people have had horror stories with databases: being inflexible, schema-locked, difficult to manage, and tough to understand how to write queries. I'm a database guy so every problem to me is an opportunity for a database. I've been asked to do some crazy things to avoid using a database.

[true harness]

oops. i did redirect them here 😔

[fringe sphinx]

But, certainly look at PyArrow and parquet. Pandas is terrible for anything at scale, but it's not the only option... and of course, there's always polars

[buoyant seal]

If your authority of software engineer is not enough for that

Just make small chat with more qualified devs pinged in order to explain problems and to have their input.
Third people conflict solvers 😉

[fringe sphinx]

Also, as a consultant, my advice is always: Hire a consultant who can speak with authority. Sometimes an outside voice is sadly needed to convince people to do things differently. (I'm not offering, I'm just saying: as a consultant, my job is is to borrow your watch to tell you the time)

[hearty island]

ugh my lighting looks like shit on hirevue, are they going to care? i mean it looks like i'm on facetime

[buoyant seal]

He just needs input from other data engineers, data scientists, backend devs in a simple chat/meeting 😛

[fringe sphinx]

A tech intervention 🙂

[buoyant seal]

When going online all the time, surprisingly good idea to take small care of your online devices setup.
I found it is very useful to have at least very high quality microphone and being well heard with auto noise filtration

Going with fifine microphone that has Cardioid pattern
https://www.amazon.com/Microphone-Condenser-Recording-Streaming-669B/dp/B06XCKGLTP

[weary crag]

Show him some of the excel database memes maybe that’ll convince him 😂

[fringe sphinx]

camera height too

[weary crag]

Do you think it’s bad to use a headset?

[knotty wind]

Do you think it would be fair to pull another person to the issue? We do have a senior dev who is an application lead working in .NET

[buoyant seal]

i use headphones + triangle high quality microphone. i think it is the best combination.
because headphones eliminate all possible echo from you (in removing possibility making loop of sound from your PC(and other speaking people) to microphone)
cardiod patterned microphone makes sure it takes sound only from front of a microphone in high quality

with this setup, u can be a good heard and listened person up to moderately noisy environment (office included)

[buoyant seal]

Sure. i think it is completely fair and most sensible path.
U just need any senior enough / experienced backend dev that knows dbs too

[buoyant seal]

the only little problem would be, u need to provide sufficient information to explain data scientist point of view, why he chose to go databaseless setup. (so he could use less time to dive into your problem)
u need to find proper arguments to counteract that in this business domain situation, it does not make sense doing what data scientist proposed though, and instead better going database X (relational or not relational depending on your situation 😉 )
even CSV idea can be augmented with S3 blob storage if necessary, to fit more proper cloud architecture.

If you trained machine learning neural networks, i would not be against S3 with data sets in CSV for example potentially in some cases 😄
Although even in this case it would be good idea to think SQL. just for the sake of better data integrity long term maintance

TLDR> explain properly why database makes sense at least from the point of dev to dev view.

[knotty wind]

Will try to add him to the next meetings. Thanks for the suggestion

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, like I said: I've seen a lot of anti-database people, usually around rigidity and inflexibility (and lack of familiarity). They're not unreasonable frustrations, but the DE world has gotten a lot better over the past decade.

[buoyant seal]

consider idea... as main source of truth using SQL database. (allowed to write and read)
And unloading for data scientist purposes for view(read) only, frozen results into S3 bucket as CSV.

Then u have good data integrity / maintainability, and data scientist satisfaction at the same time
Use nonsense and non relational db formats for dumps of data only 😄

[knotty wind]

They used zip file for version control before i came in and made them switch to git. I have sent him a two-page document explaining the importance of the Database. But he's still out there pointing out silly ui issues like the alignment of dropdowns.

[knotty wind]

He doesn't even want to view the data. He's kinda anti-db integration of DB into the tool, he thinks there's a better solution compared to using a database.

[buoyant seal]

shrugs. okay, get more devs to persuade him then.
kind of cheaty, since devs will be usually more in favour on a side of dev, but whatever.

two-page document explaining the importance of the Database
u can explain their importance in terms of future costs, of architecture costs, of cloud costs, of dev costs for both choises
non dev people really good to understand the language of money losses and proffits
and obviously some flashy diagram/comparison in performance of application now and in a year / seconds to process request / cost of hardware to process it
and add future refactoring cost, if u choose CSV today and u will be forced to switch to db (evaluate time left to pass to time when u will be forced to use db if u chose CSV today)

[fringe sphinx]

"he's still out there pointing out silly ui issues like the alignment of dropdowns"... I feel seen.

[fringe sphinx]

To reiterate: The question is why he's anti-db. There are good and valid reasons, and good answers to those reasons

[buoyant seal]

Zip file version control... https://i.imgur.com/3mVKnpP.gif
(hehe, used it during university times often)

[knotty wind]

yea, I think I was too technical in the documentation. I look into making it more about the money and cost.

[knotty wind]

He even opposed git. But later I started showing him my GitHub and showed him how easy it was to work with teams. Later he was convinced. I honestly feel like he's not fit to lead a developer team.

[fringe sphinx]

I usually think devs are overdramatic about bad eng managers... but in this case, yah, I'm with you.

[buoyant seal]

well, we have often low literate project managers too. usually i interact with them well, because they well understand limits of their dev knowledge and don't fight dev decisions
As long as leadership of this people is not interfering with work beyond their level of knowledge it is fine.
potentially yeah, u look like having wrong lead of dev team if he is lead lead of dev team and has too much power to influence dev decisions, while having such low level of dev knowledge

[fringe sphinx]

Are you familiar with the Peter Principle? "The Peter Principle states that people are promoted until they reach a position where they are no longer competent"

[knotty wind]

He excels in interpersonal skills. And Data Science stuff

[buoyant seal]

28.6 Managing Your Manager

In a hierarchy, every employee tends to rise to his level of incompetence.
—The Peter Principle

In software development, nontechnical managers are common, as are managers who
have technical experience but who are 10 years behind the times. Technically compe-
tent, technically current managers are rare. If you work for one, do whatever you can
to keep your job. It’s an unusual treat.

If your manager is more typical, you’re faced with the unenviable task of managing
your manager. “Managing your manager” means that you need to tell your manager
what to do rather than the other way around. The trick is to do it in a way that allows
your manager to continue believing that you are the one being managed. Here are
some approaches to dealing with your manager:

• Plant ideas for what you want to do, and then wait for your manager to have a
  brainstorm (your idea) about doing what you want to do.
• Educate your manager about the right way to do things. This is an ongoing job
  because managers are often promoted, transferred, or fired.
• Focus on your manager’s interests, doing what he or she really wants you to do,
  and don’t distract your manager with unnecessary implementation details.
  (Think of it as “encapsulation” of your job.)
• Refuse to do what your manager tells you, and insist on doing your job the right
  way.
• Find another job.
  The best long-term solution is to try to educate your manager. That’s not always an
  easy task, but one way you can prepare for it is by reading Dale Carnegie’s How to Win
  Friends and Influence People.

if to quote McConnel Code Complete Book

[buoyant seal]

you reminded me McConnel book text right away 😄 it contains same quote -> https://discordapp.com/channels/267624335836053506/470889390588035082/1138509814494920725

[knotty wind]

He doesn't micromanage us tho that's the only good thing about him.

[knotty wind]

Thanks for this.

[sleek egret]

why should they be in a database?

[brave matrix]

@knotty wind using a 200mb CSV with Pandas is definetly a bad idea.
but a DB on the other hand might not be a good solution if you just have one table, I would highly recommend using parquet files which are very light and performant for reading and writing,
then you can use many libraries to read and analyze the parquet files (lazily, so you can analyze massive datasets while using very little RAM), for example: pyarrow, duckdb, polars, etc.

[delicate bane]

+1 for duckdb

[sleek egret]

depends on the operations you want to perform

pandas now supports pyarrow, as an in-memory backing store, btw

[brave matrix]

next time I'll mention rust as well

I just forgot...

[brave matrix]

how would that work?

[gilded valley]

https://pandas.pydata.org/docs/user_guide/pyarrow.html

[sleek egret]

the same way it works with numpy as the in-memory backing store (which is still the default)

[brave matrix]

Oh nice, more performant dtypes

[sleek egret]

yes, I'm very excited by the pyarrow integration

[fringe sphinx]

Pyarrow is great. I hit some boundaries with pandas support for it, but it’s been a game changer

[dense mesa]

Pyarrow was insane

[true harness]

was?

[lapis wind]

Off topic, but I think it's a bit too little too late, polars in general for situations where you care about the performance, is leaps and bounds ahead of pandas.

That being said, duckdb is also very nice, but for some reason none of them support streaming from one source to another -_- they almost do, but not quite

[hearty island]

so i spoke to my friend about the jpmorgan role i applied to and he was like yeah you're basically living off what you hunt

which is ...interesting

[vapid jay]

hello everyone, I'm in the process of learning python and id like to become a penetration tester, I'm a little lost and I'm not sure what exactly I should be learning? can anyone give me a few pointers?

[fringe sphinx]

Pointers for which part? How to get to next level with Python?

[vapid jay]

im just not sure what to be learning, i need to know what to do in "ethical" hacking

[fringe sphinx]

Fwiw, I’m not in infosec, but: it’s a very diverse field with lots of different backgrounds. Here, you’ll probably get more SWE perspectives but maybe not a lot on the infosec side

[brave matrix]

The issue with polars is that you can only read a single file.
Unlike with Pyarrow where you can read a dataset that has its data split across different folders and files

[knotty wind]

Because he wants the ability to read data from a database but doesn't to store the tables created during the whole operation to be stored in the database. The tool is like alteryx designer[attached image] with multiple nodes holding different data after each operation.

[frigid wasp]

Not sure if this is the right channel, but what laptop would you recommend for professional python development?
The job will be 40% FastAPI website backend, 30% help implmenetning and deploying stuff the analytics team makes (mostly pyspark and similar) and the remaining 30% will be a combination of general scripting, DevOps and internal software.

[fringe sphinx]

Normalish sounding problem: we persist dataframes to parquet, rather than storing everything in a db.

[vapid jay]

do you know where I might be able to get some opinions from information security?

[pine sleet]

If your work doesn't provision you with one, any laptop manufactured in the last 10 years would probably be fine

[frigid wasp]

I was given a budget and can select my own for ~50000czk (~2k usd).
Any general tips on what to look for? I'm mostly used to developing on my strong desktop

[fringe sphinx]

2k is a lot. I don’t even spend that on work laptops anymore, I’ve been happy in the 1200-1500 range

I don’t think you really can go wrong with any gaming laptop, like Alienware or asus rog

[true harness]

thinkpad has nice workstation laptops

[gilded valley]

if I was getting a work laptop, I would probably just want a specced out m2 macbook pro, which is like 5k.

But there is no way this is on topic for the channel

[sleek egret]

you can purchase the laptop anywhere, right? not some "company store" site. because if it's the latter, it's probably a scam.

[frigid wasp]

*from any reputable store *
so no sketchy sites or second-hand

[sleek egret]

then you're fine

[brave matrix]

I would avoid gaming laptops since theyre heavy and bulky to move around.
In that price range you should get as a minimum 32gb of RAM so you can run dovker with ease

[frigid wasp]

Everything tech-related costs significantly more here than in the US
For example, I was looking at the 15" MacBook air with 24gb ram and 1TB of storage. That costs 62000czk (2800usd) here while it is just 2100 in the us

[brave matrix]

I would get a Dell XPS

[sleek egret]

700 of that is VAT/GST

[buoyant seal]

Sounds like Freelancing through intermediate platform (we assume payment and commission size will be dictated by platform) 😉
In modern times it is called Out staffing body shop companies

[sleek egret]

US prices do not include sales tax (which would only be an additional 0% to 10%)

[brave matrix]

Which is the shitties type of work from my experience.
You get paid as much as an employee (if that), and you dont always have work.

[hearty island]

it's not freelancing tho

[frigid wasp]

Few general questions

1. 14 vs 16"
2. Oled - yay or nay? worried about burn-in since I will be using it 8+h 3-5 days a week for hopefully years to come
3. I know python is single-threaded 95% of the time, but are any major parts of the workflow multithreaded?
4. Would 24gb of ram be enough? Or should I go for 32+gb

[fringe sphinx]

Re ram: check expandability. It’s sometimes cheaper to buy and upgrade separately

[buoyant seal]

I hate out staffing companies. Not wishing to get robbed of unknown salary percentage any longer.

As next job will seek direct hiring to smth.
But I am already tied to long term client through outstaffing for now. Not wishing to leave any soon because I have too sweet job role duties and grinding the most relevant job experience at a high rate. People are nice in general too

Since at moment of my leave I will be definitely already some grade of senior level dev (and considering ridiculous levels of demands for senior DevOps engineers), I assume I will not experience finding next job problems without outstaffing/outsourcing companies.

I thank body shop company nevertheless for helping me to break into international working industry and helping to immigrate the hell out of country plunged to war. So it was definitely right decision at a time to get hired to such company

[compact shoal]

where did you come from? congradulations

[fringe sphinx]

What country are you in? Usually my advice is: networking, networking, networking.

[buoyant seal]

From Russia

[compact shoal]

beautiful place but shitty government

[buoyant seal]

Yeah. But quite cold 🥶 in its Siberia parts at least. It was nice to leave for warmer country.

Its western-south part is magnitudes warmer though (a bit too hot considering that at that part war conflicts happen as well 🙈 )

[fervent grove]

cold >>> hot

[buoyant seal]

after freezing nose for thirty years in serbia, it is really nice to have warmth full year (Humans are kind of better living in warmth creatures)
it is nice at least, as long as having air conditioner 😅

• With recent breaking climat changes, u kind of having super hot summer with fires in siberia too anyway.

[fervent grove]

I definitely need to move to a colder country in the next few years maybe canada

[deft herald]

(Humans are kind of better living in warmth creatures)
We are pretty good at making clothes though

[fervent grove]

40°C+ in summer is tooo dang much for me
but -30°C is also crappy

[deft herald]

Not very good at making portable active cooling

[buoyant seal]

it takes a lot of central heating to keep warmth during winter, and winter (that lasts good half of a year) still frost bites you each time u leave a home though.

[fervent grove]

-10°C-20°C is my go to

[buoyant seal]

i don't want to consider -20°C as warm weather any longer 🙈 good bye Siberia. i regret nothing.

[brave matrix]

goaddmn you live in Siberia?

[fervent grove]

nono i mean from -10°C up to +20°C

[buoyant seal]

i lived in Siberia. now i live in Serbia (which is far warmer country. we had only 2 days of snow in a year)

[brave matrix]

oh serbia is chill

I want to tour est europe and go there

[fervent grove]

avoid RU at all cost for next 20years lol

[brave matrix]

if you can lead a team you will find a job easily, anywhere in europe. I keep seeing on Linkedin devops job posts.
so you are a basically a consultant, how many years have you been doing this?

[buoyant seal]

greatly. i love this country so far. Warm weather, bycycle roads through whole city, welcome people, beautiful sights, good food (i love raw fish sold here). What is not to love in Serbia ❤️ nice to be in country with so many advantages that welcomes people to work and is not sending them to war. Plus the whole language is kind of very familiar to me because it has slavic roots and understandable roughly even if did not learn it yet 🙈

[brave matrix]

I mean all est europe speaks russian (altough it may not be their preferred language now 😅) so you should be able to communicate easily, does Serbian also use the Cyrillic alphabet?

[buoyant seal]

I am more orienting myself on being high quality results yielding tech person first now. I think it is more important for first 5-8 years of career than being a manager.
So i strive for high quality DevOps engineering / Backend Development stuff for now.

[buoyant seal]

they use two alphabets interchangeably. Cyrilic and Latinica. 😅 Considering that Serbian language is pronounced as it is written, it is not a big issue. (for goodness sake, finally language without caveats to its pronunciations. A huge brick thrown into English 😛 )

[brave matrix]

fosure, first learn the skills then get a leader position, that way you actually know the inner workings and how to make decisions properly. thats what both of my managers at work did

[brave matrix]

hmmm interesting

how old are you if you dont mind me asking?

[buoyant seal]

29 years old 😉 finished master's degree, grinding the hell out of my career for some amount of years already

[brave matrix]

oh nice
I'm 21

[buoyant seal]

tbh not even sure if i will ever want to be a manager (or in lead positions for that matter). being a manager is not for everyone. May be will try hesitantly, but if i will not like it, then i will not like. 🤷‍♂️ no point to force onto me smth i don't like

[brave matrix]

thats fair

this is my resume, I'm looking for a mid-level data-engineer position. if anybody has any suggestions pls let me know

[buoyant seal]

😉 having better jpeg rasterization could be a good start.

[buoyant seal]

Well, now i understand why u defended web scraping that much. Urgh. u even web scraped social networks already. 🙈 (hello web scraping totally not ethical data sources)
Also.. that was certainly a heavy extra load onto wikipedia, to pay extra for electricity and server resources. Hopefully they have strong caching mechanisms in place.

[gilded valley]

this cv is missing a ton of stuff I'd expect from a mid level data engineer.

OLAP databases and orchestration tools missing is huge. You don't give any specifics about the tech stack used in your current role, you only have one real project on there.

you don't have a degree.

there is no real evidence that you are ready for a mid level role.

"I have 6 months of experience" requires a lot more selling to land a mid level role.

[buoyant seal]

i can't imagine anyone being mid level with this level of experience and educational background.
pretty much realistically nearly impossible to reach middle rank with such credentials.
at best (if skills sufficient and passing well tech interview, it is possible to land junior+ with this resume i think)

[buoyant seal]

despite its unethical problems, you worded it impresively. Downloaded wikipedia 😅 good descrbied achievements

u should really remove IDEs from your skills though, ( VScode, Intellij ), i would also remove Pyenv, Poetry too (totally not important and not a skill as well)

[brave matrix]

oh yeah its actually missing a word, its "500 accounts per minute" 😂

[brave matrix]

yeah I just added them for the sake of it, I might remove them

[buoyant seal]

somewhat tempted to remove Jira as well 🙈 it is a skill tbh, probably deserves to be left. But i would never add it to my resume, since it is not really tech skill. / kind of not important in my opinion thing for devs
Very rare organizations have Jira/Agile organized as not a mess anyway.
(it is only important for people in position of managers/lead stuff)

[brave matrix]

OLAP DBs? what about AWS Athena?
if thats the only "real" project what kind of projects did you expect from a junior to mid-level candidate?

the 2nd counts as well imo, there are many projects that I have worked on, including APIs with FastAPI and webapps with Flask, but I dont have that much space...

[brave matrix]

ok what else should I do?

[fringe sphinx]

Not mid-level, tbh, with 1 year experience and no degree... fix the bullets.. Just say: "Data Engineer", and let them form their own opinion based on the job you apply to. You don't need to include information about the company. We're hiring you, not the company.
The language is a little loose, you should spend a little more time on each bullet. "Created a pipeline": Say more. Using what? For what purpose? "Created a python library for internal use"... you could do a lot better with this bullet.

TikTok Web Scraper is a bit eyebrow raising... but you could word smith this... like 'Social Media Analyzer" or something.

[brave matrix]

thats BS, I myself know a few guys that are in senior Devops or database mangaers that dont have a degree, and are making good salaries in EUROPE not in America

[fringe sphinx]

Add some projects, especially to round out your experience.

[buoyant seal]

i can bet they are not with half of year of experience

[brave matrix]

if skills sufficient and passing well tech interview, it is possible to land junior+ with this resume i think
my man, I'm already in a junior position, and have a permanent contract which is very rare as a first job here in Italy

[brave matrix]

I have much more than a year of exp

[fringe sphinx]

I think you have a fine resume and background. Tighten up the language. Identify your weak points and work on them. I think we tend to be a little blunt/brutally honest when reviewing... it's not to be argumentative, just giving you a contrarian point of view.

It doesn't help you if we say: "This is great". We'll give you the negatives first, like a yelp review.

[buoyant seal]

Freelancing experience can be seen only as a very scarse experience that is not that well counting to main exp. (if gets counted at all)
If u wish to presuade that it has more value, u need to specify how many hours per week/month u spent working during this time per each global project / or during this work time in general in average
Also, we can add here that it is improbable to believe that starting person had any good you know training / intensive work hours done at all during that time just because it is a first job with kind of lack of other people u know in your team.

• So once again more specification to amount of put effort is requried (work hours spent during freelancing projects)
• may be even telling amount of people/devs that was present in your teams during projects

[gilded valley]

from a mid level candidate?
a minimum of:
experience with at least one major OLAP dB - redshift, big query, snowflake - extensive use of spark (or possibly something like Dask) preferably with Glue or Databricks. Definite experience with some orchestration tooling, Airflow/Redshift.

hopefully things that go a step further than pipeline monkey like Kafka or Tableau. A nod to the compliance concerns around webscraping. A nod to observability.

[gilded valley]

not on the resume you don't

[gilded valley]

you have 8 months of experience

[brave matrix]

its just an excuse to lessen the value of the candidate. whats important is that I practiced alot while freelancing and I learnt alot.

I would perform much better than most candidates with 8 months of exp.

[buoyant seal]

¯_(ツ)_/¯. that is how 90%+(or even 95%+) of other devs and recruiters will likely see it, unless you tried to correct it by adding work hours time and team sizes and its numbers will persuade for something more

[grim spindle]

random but does anyone use google sheets or excel here?

[brave matrix]

thats useful. I'm familiar with some of them but havent had the oppurtunity to use them at work, I will prob learn them soon. but Dask belongs in the bin, just have to put it out there.

[fringe sphinx]

I would suggest not getting into a debate about it: your resume could be tightened up. Remove the "mid-level" part, and that removes one argument. There's some gaps: I don't know if I'd call your resume a DE resume. It reads as a junior-ish SWE resume, tbh, and there's nothing wrong with that.

[brave matrix]

yeah why?

[grim spindle]

i need help with something

[brave matrix]

post your question in #python-discussion

[grim spindle]

i doubt they would allow that can i send it to you in dms?

[brave matrix]

the reason why I put the mid-level part is to let HR know that despite the "one year of experience" I know Python very well.

[fringe sphinx]

It would have the opposite effect.

[brave matrix]

hm what?

[fringe sphinx]

imo, it'd get this resume filtered out of consideration

[brave matrix]

yeah I'll test that

[fringe sphinx]

Your goal as a candidate is to get past the filter & then the screen

[sleek egret]

then the interviews

[fringe sphinx]

I look for three things in a resume: current tech/stack, experience, education... probably in that order. (I don't know if I weight it that way, but that's more or less the order most resumes present it in)

[sleek egret]

I go experience, education and current tech/stack as the latter always changes and sharp people can learn them as they go

[fringe sphinx]

yah, its more about the order I look for it, not the weights I give it... I guess I phrased it poorly tho

[sleek egret]

I see

different weights are fine too though. everyone has different priorities, after all

[true harness]

was the resume deleted. hm. it seems it was

[brave matrix]

ight, thanks for the feedback, I'll go back to the drawing board

[buoyant seal]

it is kind of a flag of potential arrogance and ignorance i guess. kind of bothersome to deal with candidates who think they are middle/senior super rock stars (and they are not)

[brave matrix]

so if my current role is Junior Data Engineer but its not challenging enough and I want something harder, should I specify that it was Junior?

[sleek egret]

"junior" and "senior" titles mean almost nothing and almost no one (in a position to make hiring decisions) actualy cares

at most it's fodder for a chuckle when someone with 2 yrs of experience claims to be "senior"

[brave matrix]

that could be said for the technical people, but for HR its very different

[buoyant seal]

u can always leave rank out of resume and let each person to judge how they view it on their own 😄

[sleek egret]

HR doesn't make hiring decisions

[brave matrix]

true but they can eliminate you before you go to the techincal stage

[sleek egret]

the technical stage is the first stage after resume acceptance

it's because so many people lie about their skills

[brave matrix]

yes, but your resume wont even get accepted if the seniority dosent match the job

[sleek egret]

oh wait, you think HR actually reads your resume?

dude, they don't bother 99% of the time

[brave matrix]

I dont think, I know.
I'm not sure how the process is where you live, but here you will have one or two interviews with them before you even start talking with the technical people.
the resume is passed on to the next stage only if HR likes you and think you are a good fit.

so if they think your not senior enough for the role, they will reject you immidiately, its that simple.

[hearty island]

i did my jpm chase interview

[sleek egret]

that's just weird

[sleek egret]

how did it go? I worked fo JPM way back in the day before the merger

[hearty island]

i thought it went well, clearly and completely answered the questions. now it’s their turn to evaluate me

[sleek egret]

cool beans. it was a nice place to work in ye olden days

[hearty island]

hopefully i move onto the second round and not get a rejection email tomorrow

[sleek egret]

it's a huge organization. if they do reject you, you can always apply again to a different group

[hearty island]

or to them for a diff position

[marsh wind]

That's how it often is

Some companies will do HR as last step...some might have recruiter first and then tech or hr

[sleek egret]

in 30+ years of working, at companies large and small, I have never ever seen HR have anything but the most tangential influence over hiring decisions

[marsh wind]

Ie in my current job it was 2 interviews with tech ppl then hr+founders and offer. In my future job it was outsider recruiter then HR then tech test and tech interview and then final interview with a manager of a manager

[sleek egret]

admittedly, all those companies have been in the US, and in the NYC area, but still

[marsh wind]

What kind of influence they had that I cannot judge

[sleek egret]

ok, I guess if you go through an outside agency, I guess their interview of you is sorta like HR. but only barely, IMO.

[marsh wind]

Well it was outside recruter and then company hr

[sleek egret]

near zero. you have to do or say something pretty extreme for HR to be able to axe you

[marsh wind]

Yeah I think so too... Like unless you are totally inadequate in some way, they don't care

[sleek egret]

maybe HR has outsized influence for things like internships where people aren't hired for specific roles

[marsh wind]

🤷‍♂️

[brave matrix]

Its not only to check your sane, but mainly to see if your expectations align with the job (especially salary)

[marsh wind]

I think they also try evaluate your communication skills. As nearly always when I had HR interviews they would go with questions where you need to explain what you do and how to non tech

[buoyant seal]

in our company interviews, importance of HR feedback is just evaluating character / communicating skills of a person ^_^
They are just first 15mins of interview, so kind of not really much taking time

[sleek egret]

HR interviews are nearly meaningless

what the HR drone says about you is simply ignored by everyone up and down the chain

[marsh wind]

I never said they are meaningful 😂

[fringe sphinx]

Agree, that's been my experience too.

The only critical part of HR is they often filter (poorly) resumes based on whatever job description they were given. They're terrible at it, and I always told them to give me the unfiltered pile.

[sleek egret]

oh jeez, you're a brave man. that pile must have been giant

[fringe sphinx]

I tell this story often: I worked for a very big tech company, and we posted a few positions for my team. The recruiter said she was overwhelmed going through all the resumes and she'd get them to me "soon". Well, soon never came; I ended up hiring from personal referrals from my peers who'd drop resumes on my desk.

[sleek egret]

sounds like a worthless recruiter

[fringe sphinx]

(a different HR drone handled the interview scheduling/etc)

[sleek egret]

but yeah, most hires above entry/junior level tend to be referals from my experience too

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, in small tech, I've had some pretty good third party recruiters

I tell that story mainly to impress upon people the importance of networking.

[sleek egret]

indeed. the industry is both much smaller and much larger than people might imagine

[marsh wind]

A question Btw. I am leaving my company for other. My ceo already asked me twice where I am going and I said I don't want to tell yet. His pretext is to maybe give some advice if he knows that company and etc etc....

[fringe sphinx]

lol... funny story: that same tech company, when I left, they asked me the same question. Then sent a cease and desist type letter to that company to not poach their employees (I apparently wasn't the first).

[marsh wind]

Is there a good moment to tell them ever? Or better to avoid until I change? I already signed contract with new job.... But I'll still be with current job to mid or even end October

[fringe sphinx]

What country are you in? In the US, you'd usually get get walked fairly quickly, especially if you don't disclose where you're going: presumption is a competitor.

[marsh wind]

How did it end? I don't think it can happen here unless I go to direct competitors (which I don't do)

[marsh wind]

France. Get walked? What's that

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, the other company more or less ignored it. There was nothing in my agreement preventing it, but I think it did deter offers they made to other people from that company.

[marsh wind]

We have some non compete clauses and stuff in my job contract but it's 100% outside of its scope, they are in very different industry. And current company is 35 ppl startup and new one is big

[fringe sphinx]

In many companies in US, when you give notice, it's usually 2 weeks... but, if they think you're going to a competitor, they'll opt to just let you go that day / shut off your access.

just to be clear, I'm not giving any advice here, just sharing anecdotes that are probably irrelevant.

[marsh wind]

Oh ok I see. No, ain't the case here. Also 2 weeks notice don't exist here

Hehe yeah coming back to original question... Better safe than sorry and not tell them? Or no real harm in telling?

[fringe sphinx]

my opinion is: you've already said no twice, might as well stick with that. better safe than sorry.

[marsh wind]

Cc @sleek egret you mentioned 30 yrs xp... I wonder on your opinion

[marsh wind]

Either way they'll find out through linkedin later hehe. I know some people who left actually didn't even disclose it in their LI profiles while some others said straight away (one guy was going to Amazon to London so I think he just didn't care and knew they can't do anything)

[marsh wind]

Makes sense. Maybe I can mention if they ask towards end of notice period, but now I have more than 2 months to go still 😁

And I tried to negotiate notice down but not much luck there...

[sleek egret]

it all depends on your boss and his personality.

essentially nothing else matters wrt to the issue you described

well, that and your relationship with your boss

[marsh wind]

Relationship are rather good but I find him being somewhat of a douchebag rather often in how he treats people....

[steel shoal]

Currently on my python learning venture to get into tech. Any tips on what certs or things I should look into first? I just signed up for Coursera's Google IT Professional.

[fringe sphinx]

the standard py discord answer is: Look at !resources for learning ideas, !kindling for project ideas, and writing code / gaining project experience is more important than courses.

[long mason]

Hi everyone, I don't know that much about technology, but I'm really interested, I want to study at university soon and I'm not sure if I should choose Software Engineering or Data Science (there's no CS or IT in the uni i'm applying to), I'm mainly interested in Azure, I did the Azure Fundamentals, but still not sure about which major will be better for me, additionally, i'm interested in areas like tech applied to biology and medicine, bioinformatics maybe and also AI applied to prosthetics, to summarize: I'm thinking that cloud would be just to make some money but tech and science is what I really like but just to have like an own lab, not like a job. I know this might sound weird, but this decision is so important to me, I hope someone can help me, thank you in advance and excuse my english, it's not my first language! tysm againnn:)

[gritty rivet]

The title of a program doesn't tell you very much. Get more information from the university about coursework and other details.

Go on LinkedIn to look at what recent graduates are doing.

Do you really need to decide now? These things may vary a bit by country and by university but generally, switching majors in the first year or so is no big deal at all

[long mason]

Actually I have 6 days to decide 😭

[gritty rivet]

If you're trying to be a SWE / developer (as opposed to IT ops) then forget about certs, nobody cares. Focus on building stuff for your portfolio... Whatever interests you and demonstrates the skills needed for those jobs you are interested in doing

[long mason]

So I checked the classes, and Data Science seems to have a lot of database, AI; Machine Learning, Deep Learning and statistics. Also biology, chemestry and phisycs idk why,

The other has many different things such as Cybersecurity, web design, database too, and economy

[gritty rivet]

On the other hand if you just want to get a job in tech any way that you can, the ConpTIA A+ cert is the standard starting point, more popular then the Google one. It's often enough to get you in to desktop support or help desk, which can be relevant experience but much lower pay then other IT / CS roles

[gritty rivet]

I will point you back to my advice about LinkedIn to help you understand likely outcomes. Otherwise the most important factor in your decision should be what appeals to you more in terms.of what you personally find interesting. If you still can't decide then flip a coin and move on.

[steel shoal]

Yeah. Just trying to get my foot in the door. I’m mainly trying to do cybersecurity/ something with python. So start off with comptia +?

[gritty rivet]

If you're not going to focus on getting a degree (which you should if you can) then yeah. You could skip the A+ and do the Security+ first if you really have a strong interest in that area. Those exams are relatively easy and cheap. Check in your local area to get a sense of what jobs are available and what certs they are looking for.

If you're in the US by chance, WGU has very affordable degree programs that include a bunch of certs.

[steel shoal]

I’m 26 now. I could look into WGU but trying to get something within 3 to 6 months.

[vapid jay]

Hello

[undone lantern]

I want to work in Hong kong

[languid fiber]

guys I'm in deep need for input from someone who's in the industry, deadass

[true harness]

what would you ask them?

[languid fiber]

It has to do with an unpaid internship I'm finishing up right now. I waited til the end so people don't tell me "hey, you didn't even finish it all the way through".

you in the industry?

[true harness]

just ask the question you would ask to someone in the industry. someone will read it

[mellow torrent]

do employers like to employ remote employees? how hard is it to get a remote job? i currently live in india and my #1 priority is working remote and living in the city i live in, im graduating CS in a year, is it a realistic goal?

my skill set is mostly python / data sci stuff (not that im really good at it)

i dont think i could be hired remote as a fresher right?

[languid fiber]

Ok Ok, here we go. This is going to be quite long so I hope ya'll don't mind.

About a month ago, I joined this fairly random unpaid internship as my first experience (just got out of high school, haven't even started uni). First day, I'm bored as hell. This isn't like anything before. I can't do what I specifically find interesting, I'm stuck with what my supervisor thought I should learn, or what technology the team is currently using. Frankly, everything was so utterly unaligned with my interests. I wanted to quit first week (this was enhanced by the fact that I had no driving license and this place was a two hour drive away from home. accommodation was way less than ideal).

Many of my friends who are already in the industry were hella mad at me. In my country, it's not easy to get an internship remotely of this quality. Trusting them that it'll only get better if I push through, I continued. It did get "slightly" better, but not much. In the technical things, I didn't need any help. Google was there for me, and I'm already very much used to self-learning (which was very unlike the other trainees).

Other trainees seemed to be making more progress (because they seemed to be asking a lot of questions to the employees), which caused me a lot of imposter syndrome, but then I looked at what they were doing, and I was able to learn all of that stuff on my own by utilizing the internet and reading the docs (like I usually do). In the end, this perhaps caused me to connect less with the employees, causing me to miss out on projects. But nontheless, I lacked the excitement and commitment, because the technologies and the work they were doing seemed fairly boring for me. The slow paced nature of these training programs was killing me.

I want to get input from other people in the industry about my situation.

[true harness]

input about what? is there a specific question you want answered?

[true harness]

I believe it's more difficult, since Junior employees need more hand-holding which is harder remotely

[languid fiber]

My current friends who are in the industry (non cs related) say that this is normal, and everyone has to push through these boring, fairly low quality unpaid internships. I want to know if this is true, and if I should be a lot more selective with these opportunities.

Mostly I want to know if this is normal, or if I'm just being too arrogant with my skills.

[true harness]

I think that would depend highly on what country you're in. in the US, swe internships are almost never unpaid

[languid fiber]

so in the US, people don't usually have these low quality programs?

I'd reckon they're a lot more selective with the interns as well no?

[true harness]

i have no basis for comparison, but I think you would find low quality programs everywhere

[languid fiber]

I'll be starting my studies in the UK soon, so I'm hoping the UK gives me a better experience

I mean, I really want to talk with someone who's in the UK/US and who went through this internship stuff before getting his/her job, because it's causing me soooo much headache thinking that this could be the usual experience everyone gets everywhere.

If that's actually how it is, then holy shit work life is boring as fuck (like unbearably boring)

[gilded valley]

the UK does not have unpaid internships.

[smoky quest]

it is what you make of it.
Find something more aligned with your interests then?

[languid fiber]

that's what I thought as well, but my "industry friends" told me that I can't afford to be this selective, and that doing so will only significantly delay my getting a job.

[smoky quest]

it's a distance function between your goal and your career trajectory

[languid fiber]

I'm sorry I'm really trying to decipher exactly what you mean by this 😂

[marsh wind]

Tbh the context you are giving is very broad... Ie we don't know what interests you, what kind of personality you have. We also don't have even a basic baseline of your country (that's not guaranteed to help tho)

[smoky quest]

your internship is demonstrating some set of skills. But your goal is about a different set of skills

[languid fiber]

yeah exactly

;LAHSJDFL;AKJSD;LFKJ this is all too painful man, any of you guys gone through something like this?

[bitter latch]

I want to be an online coding tutor, can someone suggest some ways how can I be ?

[cinder fossil]

Here in the UK the quality of internships tends to be high as long as you're a good quality candidate, most companies I've seen/heard about will give you a fair bit of leeway as an intern

Plus they're paid

[languid fiber]

that's relieving to hear

though you usually get them through your university right?

[cinder fossil]

Nah, you apply to them separately

[languid fiber]

Oh I see

what are the general requirements though? Like, in terms of education level/ resume

[cinder fossil]

Most internships here expect you to be either a penultimate year student, or have a lot of personal hobby experience. they're quite lax though - my first internship listed "minimum graduated with bachelors degree" but I got it whilst still undergrad due to personal experience with the tooling etc

[languid fiber]

hmm that seems like my situation, so hopefully all will go well

but how likely is it to get it right from first year?

[cinder fossil]

you'll definitely have to apply to a lot of places - I went to one of the top unis in the UK and I don't know many people who were able to secure first year internships despite prior hobbyist experience so it really just depends on how far you're willing to go

I think I applied to maybe 15-20 since it's quite time consuming, but I know folks who did 100+

[harsh river]

it's very hard, but possible

[languid fiber]

hmm

so university ranking matters?

also what year did you get your internship (1st, 2nd... etc)?

[cinder fossil]

I can't really give a figure on this since it depends on how much work you do during that timeframe, but for most people a couple years of hobbyist is enough to start out

[cinder fossil]

second but my first year was mid pandemic

[languid fiber]

interesting, was the university assisting you in any way? Or was this just a thing people tend to do by default?

[cinder fossil]

Nah no uni assistance
also I'm very picky with them, so I only went for DevOps/cloud/platform engineering roles which are surprisingly hard to find at intern level
First job was Site Reliability Engineer
second was Cloud Engineer

pretty much infrastructure specific stuff

[languid fiber]

that's pretty cool

[cinder fossil]

Well, universities usually have careers things if you want to go to them but they're more focused for generic roles like software engineering usually

[harsh river]

for first years you probably won't have any ranking until the end of

[languid fiber]

so to get specific stuff that interest me, I'd prolly need to apply separately ye?

[cinder fossil]

nah not grades but the university itself
For a lot of high paying/good quality jobs like FAANG or finance stuff they only really look at places like Oxbridge, Durham, Warwick, imperial, etc

[languid fiber]

that's quite a high expectation lol

[cinder fossil]

there's a ton of opportunities for people at other universities too of course and it's not impossible, just slightly more effort needed on your end

[languid fiber]

I'm assuming you went to one of em?

[harsh river]

maybe in the UK?

[languid fiber]

we're talking specifically about the uk rn

[cinder fossil]

The only thing university does is make it easier to break into a role

Once you have actual experience it becomes significantly easier to break into a new role, and expand from there

So even if you start off with the "shitty quality internships" it can definitely get a lot better as quickly as you improve and learn

[harsh river]

i'd think companies would care about demonstrable skills than what university you're currently attending

better universities might have better outreach programs with good companies like FAANG though

[cinder fossil]

Yeah this is for people breaking into their first job. At our place we don't care about their education really, we only care about what they did and what they know for late early to mid level and beyond

Extracurricular is a godsend no matter where you are too - the people I know who partook in academic/compsci specific clubs had a very high rate of going to well paid / prestigious jobs compared to those who didn't in my personal experiences

And from a hiring perspective it shows you're interested in the content outside of requirements, showing you're far more likely to succeed when it comes to learning new technologies skills etc. Since it shows you have a passion for the field

[languid fiber]

what about GPA? In my country, literally if your GPA is below a certain value, no human will even look at your application since it automatically gets disqualified

[cinder fossil]

Here it doesn't really matter much for internships, but some companies do care. Not many tho, I think I've been asked by two or three in the years I applied for internships

Usually job offers for grads are conditional tho - you need at least X grade

[languid fiber]

that's good to hear

[languid fiber]

tbh gpa is like super dependant on what uni you went to. Like, some universities it's so easy to get a GPA of 4.0 and be the best in your batch, and in others, it's extremely hard. This is a bit of a sad reality tbh

[cinder fossil]

Yup exactly, that's why my company doesn't care about it as long as you can show you are capable for the job

I wish more companies did the same, I know so many people who are very competent engineers but got a 2.1 or a 2.2 since they prioritised other stuff

[dense mesa]

It's interesting that for CS you'll get students who focus on other stuff, so they're great engineers but underperform academically. In the "traditional" engineering I did for undergrad, people who underperformed on the course couldn't really become civil/mechanical/etc engineers after

[vapid jay]

I joined as full stack developer in a start up company and the pay is very less
So is it okay for me to continue?

Like due to recession period and my college didn't have any placements
I had a hard time getting into job
So before turning one year of free time i decided to go for start up so that i can learn and gain experience
So is it worth it to work for less pay instead of wasting time by sitting idle at home ?

[fringe sphinx]

Every year of experience makes you more hirable. Many people would love that opportunity: less pay but at least getting experience… and even if not good experience, it’s experience on the resume. Be sure to maximize what you learn, and if the job isn’t challenging, keep learning on the side.

[celest kite]

It depends on if the start up is going to make it or not. Do you believe in their business?

[fringe sphinx]

Also, i worked at a startup early in my career: the most valuable thing there was my professional network. I met a lot of interesting people, and because the startup failed; I suddenly knew people at -lots- of companies. Arguably, a failed startup is equally as good as a successful!

[vapid jay]

Yes sir its already good business
Like it has good revenue and their product is also successful

[fringe sphinx]

Just be sure to meet people: never have lunch alone. Learn what else is going on: those people will be influential in your future, I bet

[celest kite]

Are you earning stock shares? So then if they get bought or go public then you have compensation

[marsh wind]

I must be doing something wrong, being at startup the extend of network is my colleagues and ex-colleagues lol

[vapid jay]

No sir am not earning stock shares
And more over its work from home completely
So only video call meetings and all

[celest kite]

Hm. Then I wouldn't be too committed to the company

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, the secret is to make the startup fail, so everyone disperses 🙂

[celest kite]

Usually with a startup the compensation for a low salary is shares so if the company succeeds you make a bunch of money

[vapid jay]

Hmm am like not contributing completely from my side
Like am not working fully dedicated to their company as so much office politics going on
Like their SEO team members are crap tbh
Like they give changes to do and when done by me they keep on changing them so that they can show that they are working and am not
Like they project as if they are the only ones working and rest are trash
They are the ones doing mistakes and letting it throw at others

[celest kite]

Surprise! changing requirements happens everywhere

[vapid jay]

😅 oh i see

[marsh wind]

lol too late for that

[fringe sphinx]

I should add, it was a hypergrowth startup... grew to close to 1000 employees in a few years, then imploded spectacularly post-IPO.

(ie: the VCs and execs all cashed out, and it all came tumbling down)

[vapid jay]

My startup conpany has only 120 members of total
And only 4 developers including myself

[marsh wind]

oh, interesting lol. Mine is 30-ish ppl, but as i mentioned last night, I have already signed with other company, something that, presumably, will turn to be a good experinece

[fringe sphinx]

That's still a pretty good sized company. My professional advice is: try to network with the other 116, because they might help you get your next job.

(but that's my advice to everyone, especially engineers who tend to like to just do their work and not talk to people)

[vapid jay]

Sure sir
Ill try to lean as much as i can and upskill so that it would be useful for my next jump
And ill try to communicate with everyone and have good social skills too

[strange frigate]

I have been working as a data analyst since past 2 years i want to move towards what should i do next technologies i know are mysql powerbi google sheet and currently learning python

Can you suggest what should i do

[vapid jay]

Being an introvert and strict parents who boss me not to even play with friends had me a real tough time speaking with irl people face to face
The only persons i can talk to freely is in online mates in either games or channels like this
So ill try to meet my company members at weekends and get to know each other and try to gain insights

[fringe sphinx]

I feel you. I think the whole fully remote work thing is unhealthy for the young generation... I like hybrid.

[near ocean]

There is a middle ground you know

If people want to go into the office its fine with me, but i dont want to

[frosty dove]

Hi im from Zimbabwe and early in my python journey. My concern is can I get a remote job working in Zimbabwe because sometimes I get dicsouraged or should i move countries. But I really wanna work remotely. can anyone share how easy/harrd it is to get a job withought a degree

[gritty rivet]

Look for the jobs you would want to apply for in the future and work on the skills they are looking for. There are roadmaps like the ones on roadmap.sh but basically as long as you're learning stuff that interests you and is relevant to employers, that's what matters

[vapid jay]

yeah sir
its unhealthy for young generation
like due to remote work nature
they are unable to learn basic things like work etiquettes and how to write a proper email and how to even address their co workers properly
due to lack of social skills its becoming challenging

due to financial status of mine
i am not going for masters as of now
i thought that i would atleast save the money for my GRE, IELTS and for flight ticket and try to gain good experience and then do masters after completion of 2 years of work
and then apply for masters so that it would become easy for me so that i can search part time jobs in IT field and then complete my masters

[near ocean]

the young generation is doing fine whether its fully remote or not and they definitely dont need to be in an office to "learn work etiquette"
this just sounds like a boomerism

[fringe sphinx]

That's probably a good strategy anyway: work experience >> graduate degree, but it is helpful to keep learning. I don't know about your country, but in US, there are evening/part-time masters programs too.

[fringe sphinx]

And you call yourself an old man. :scoffs:

[gritty rivet]

I'm not sure anyone here will be familiar with the job market in Zimbabwe. If you're asking whether you're likely to get hired by a foreign company to work from there, with no degree and no experience, I would say there is almost no chance

[vapid jay]

Thats nice to have part time masters
Am from India and they have removed part time masters for quality concerns as well as mismatch with employment needs
basic reason was like part time master colleges are much cheaper than full time
so most of the students who are working are opting for part time and its dragging down full time colleges
so UGC (university grants commision) of India decided to discontinue option of part time as its impacting full time colleges

[vapid jay]

i agree to your point to some extent sir
like this generation doesn't need to be in office to learn things
but work culture exposure is needed is what i think

[gritty rivet]

Given that Zimbabwe is a low-wage country you could try your hand at freelance sites like Fiverr or Upwork, but they are extremely competitive

[near ocean]

what is this "work culture" you mention and why does it need me to be in an office to experience

[vapid jay]

i mean growing connections with people
yeah we can do it virtually too
but meeting persons in live and communicating is much better compared to online is what i think sir
like as an introvert myself i find it so much difficult to even start a conversation outside when i meet someone
this fear can be gone if people goes to office and try to start conversations which helps build better social skils is what i meant sir
i agree to your point that this generation is doing fine whether its remote or office
i just stated my opinion thats it sir

[fringe sphinx]

My career trajectory was largely shaped by my non-job related interactions at various companies. In other words, the ‘water cooler’ type conversations made me a much more well rounded engineer, manager, consultant, executive/founder, etc

Not saying it’s the only path, but it’s my path

[marsh wind]

based on my interactions with introverts, they usually have in even harder in person vs virtually 🙂

[vapid jay]

Yeah thats what am trying to say like they have hard time adjusting to people and get to know about others and try to have decent conversations

[near ocean]

you keep using "they" when you should be using "I"

[marsh wind]

I am on the fence regarding water cooler conversation based on my current experience... I had probably even more success in driving those kind of insightful talks in slack really. But 1 company is not really enough to judge, it's anecdotal evidence. We'll see what the future brings

[near ocean]

so far my experience with "water cooler" type convos in the workplace and stories from friends is that they all eventually end up hurting you cause someone mentions something to the wrong person about a conversation that doesnt involve them

[fringe sphinx]

? Oh, my water cooler talk was most often work related. It’s how I learned what was going on in the rest of the business. I’m not really a gossiper

[near ocean]

not sure why i'd hang around at the water cooler to learn about the business lol
I'd just ask

im talking about more casual topics and career talk

[fringe sphinx]

It’s more a figure of speech, like stuff you’d hear at lunch or after work or whatever

[minor sierra]

Is anyone bored right now?

[near ocean]

not the right channel for bored people

[minor sierra]

But is it the right channel for asking assistance?

[near ocean]

no, this is #career-advice

[minor sierra]

Well, still.. if you have the time..

[near ocean]

#python-discussion

[sleek egret]

assistance about careers, yes

[vapid jay]

Like even am included in They

[near ocean]

what youre describing is your personal struggle with social interactions, you shouldnt generalize

[vapid jay]

Nah I generalized just coz i knew people with same struggles
I have seen people of my age facing the same issues rn
Sorry if it hurt you or if its inappropriate in this channel

[near ocean]

This is getting offtopic, if you want to go into the office go into the office
the problem starts with forcing others to do so

[vapid jay]

Am not forcing any one sir
I just stated what it is for introverts thats it
Yeah sorry for off topic
And as of now am working on ReactJS and javascript
So what more skills should i learn in order to upskill as full stack developer
Am familiar with HTML,CSS,SQL, Python
So what more should i learn
Currently am learning nodejs
Apart from that any suggestions?

[marsh wind]

don't get drunk AF in after works, and watch what you say and to whom 😁

not easy for some people

[near ocean]

sounds more like a liability than this great opportunity for networking

[sleek egret]

what's for introverts?

[sleek egret]

you should learn linear algebra, vector calc (and perhaps tensor calc), graph theory, analysis, queuing theory, statistics, probability, relational algebra, a bit of number theory, etc.

type theory and category theory if you're interested in programming languages, too

oh, and of course, set theory

[vapid jay]

Thanks sir
Yeah i am interested in learning new languages
Ill try to write down curriculum and get down working on them for sure
Thanks for suggesting sir

[sleek egret]

programming languages are something you pick up on the side by reading a bit over a weekend or three

[vapid jay]

Oh okay sir
Ill try to practice too by solving questions from sites like leetcode sir

[sleek egret]

why?

[vapid jay]

For improving skills sir
Like is theory knowledge is sufficient?

[sleek egret]

using leetcode to learn software dev is like doing crossword puzzles to learn how to write novels

[vapid jay]

Oh 😅

[sleek egret]

don't get me wrong, leetcode can be interesting and challenging. and I love crosswords. but the connection to software dev is tenuous at best

[vapid jay]

Okay sir i get it

[marsh wind]

just a side note, you don't have to address everyones as "Sir" here 🙂 We are not in any type of formal environment and we are not your superiors... And might not even all be male

[vapid jay]

Oh okay sorry my bad

[marsh wind]

tbh, leetcode seems to be mostly for interview stuff because lots of enterprise don't know any better

[sleek egret]

it's fine as a junior/entry level filter

[vapid jay]

Okay 👍

[sleek egret]

not a good filter, but not a horrible one either

[fringe sphinx]

There's also the fizzbuzz reason: many candidates overstate their qualifications / aren't ready to be developers.

https://blog.codinghorror.com/why-cant-programmers-program/

(it's gotten better since then, or maybe we've been better at filtering)

[true harness]

definitely helps with people being discouraged by seeing linkedin's "1000 others have applied to this job"

[undone lantern]

🇭🇰

[sleek egret]

my experience isn't quite that bad but yeah, a large fraction of people seeking programming jobs can't program at all

[jolly maple]

Although I'm probably not the first person to ask this, what would you guys recommend for beginners in Python?

[sleek egret]

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[jolly maple]

Much appreciated, some of these ideas seem really interesting

[deft herald]

I'm probably not the first person to ask this
Which is exactly why we have that !resources page 🙂

[near ocean]

i dont understand what goes on in peoples' minds when they apply to software jobs not knowing how to write the simplest thing
i think a tiny bit of anxiety about this is healthy

[true harness]

i think there's a lot of "fake it till you make it"

[dense mesa]

Fake it til you make it but you can't fake it

[near ocean]

faking it takes work, effort, it needs to be convincing
how are you gonna fake it if i ask you to do fizzbuzz and you start by hardcoding a list of ints from 1 to 30 💀

some guy with a stacked CV actually did this btw

[true harness]

i sense a story

[near ocean]

not really a story, some guy with approx 10years exp, self titled senior frontend engineer did this in the technical interview he got from us

it was cut short, but not after an agonizing 40min on fizzbuzz

[sleek egret]

some companies assume that resumes are truthful and do not test candidates thinking they can assess skills by asking them to talk about their skills/history

I will go out on a limb here and assert that people at those companies are wrong

IMO, that's like seeking a musician by asking talking to them about music rather than asking them to play

[fringe sphinx]

2015-2020 was terrible times ime: so few candidates and so terrible.

[sleek egret]

it wasn't any better from 1985 to 2015 or post 2020

[near ocean]

Is it better from now on?

[sleek egret]

no

it'll only get worse from here

[near ocean]

Time to fulfill my life long desire of being a blacksmith innawoods

[sleek egret]

historically, most blacksmiths sucked

[marsh wind]

historically, most <insert profession> sucked 🙂

[sleek egret]

indeed

even swords made for royalty before the 1600's have horrible flaws. they're not symmetrical, they're inconsistent, multiple mistakes, etc, etc. and they were among the best master works of their day

today, they wouldn't be considered acceptable by apprentices

[celest kite]

Historically most people sucked

[sleek egret]

again, truth has been spoken

[marsh wind]

that's what I meant 🙂

[sleek egret]

there's too much truth happening here. it's scary.

[dense mesa]

Based

[pseudo marsh]

N

[hearty island]

?

[dense mesa]

?

[safe meteor]

I don't know if this is the right place to do this, but I consider buying this course guys, and I am wondering if it is worth it or not.
I have good knowledge in Python basics, and other than the first 20-ish lessons of the introduction, I don't know most of the rest of the course, and it seems quite interesting from what I saw. What do you guys think?
https://www.udemy.com/course/python-for-software-engineering/

[gritty rivet]

The chances that another here has purchased the course is slim. Personally I'd say that if you're interested in the listed topics, use that as a starting point and look for free materials on the same topics, because there is plenty available

[frosty dove]

wow, thats completely shattered my dreams. I was hopong to work remotely. Anyway thanks @gritty rivet

[near remnant]

Is it normal to feel guilty for taking 7 days off? I'm a junior, currently in my 5th month. My colleagues are satisfied with me, the CEO said I'll also receive a raise and they are really happy with me. I'm going on a one-week vacation to a foreign country with my best friend and I'm really looking forward to it, but I feel like I'm letting my colleagues down and there are still tasks I could work on... It's strange, but I feel guilty. The project manager said to have a good rest and enjoy it, but I don't know... Any advice? I just hope they won't fire me over this. I'm in Europe tho.

[fringe sphinx]

Relax, enjoy it, 7 days is nothing. It’s not like you’re that critical after a few months, and they could’ve objected but didn’t

[near remnant]

Yeah, I mean...all I can think of is the only positive feedback and the fact that the CEO asked me what can they do for me to not leave the company long term...so yeah. I'm just kind of scared haha but thanks

[fringe sphinx]

Don’t over think it. Sounds fun!

[near remnant]

My biggest weakness is that i overthink everything unfortunately

[gritty rivet]

You hope they won't fire you for a taking the scheduled vacation tha you are entitled to? Why would they do that?

[near remnant]

I don't know man, I'm probably just paranoid or something like that...probably for nothing

[gritty rivet]

Some toxic companies might try to guilt you, but that doesn't sound like the issue here.

[sleek egret]

some might say "only slackers take vacation days"

[buoyant seal]

as long as your trial period is over, over for sure and some weeks/one month passed after trial end. then i would not be afraid to take vacation. (7 days is quite short one ^_^)

[marsh wind]

Don't let that guilt get to you. Burn out is among worst things can happen to you due to not taking vacation.

Also you might compromise your relationship by that

[fringe sphinx]

Even if not, I’ve had plenty of new hires who had vacations planned/etc. And most big companies I know actually limit vacation carry over: they -want- you to take the vacation, and not bank it (yes there are financial reasons but it’s also good HR)

[brave matrix]

dude youre in europe, where worker rights exist. anyways 7 days isnt even alot, I think most companies in europe give you up to 30 days of vacation a year

[brave matrix]

true, cause they pay you NOT to work, so if you do work they need to pay you twice.

[sleek egret]

it's how they keep the masses pacified so that the entrenched elites can maintain their wealth and power

[dense mesa]

Are you shitposting again lad

[gilded valley]

this isn't true. there's no obligation to pay out or roll over untaken holiday

at least not in most countries

[sleek egret]

it ensures that people starting new companies cannot operate at full potential and threaten the entrenched elites

[fringe sphinx]

Actually, companies must pay out untaken holidays in many jurisdictions https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights/taking-holiday-before-leaving-a-job

[gilded valley]

this page says you only get paid out for holiday when you quit.

that's true, but I meant staying in the same company

[brave matrix]

nope, in many countries in europe you have N days a year for vacation, if you dont use them when you leave the company they NEED to pay you for those days as if you worked extra N days.
in practice its not worth it cuz at least here in italy those vacation days are heavily taxes so its more convenient to take the time off instead of the payout, although it is an option.

[gilded valley]

they don't roll between years. if I take 0 days off in 2023, then leave on Jan 1st 2024,my holiday balance is 0

[brave matrix]

just keep in mind that if this exists in Italy, than you will find it in most of western europe

[brave matrix]

source?

[gilded valley]

(although I think it's April-April rather than jan-jan)

[fringe sphinx]

Also, in USA, it’s state by state: https://ask.legalsolutions.thomsonreuters.info/cc-nto-vacation-rolling-pl

[gilded valley]

christ - you're literally replying to a page with the source

but if you want more - this is the way HR at my last company confirmed it works
and the way HR at my current company confirmed it works

[brave matrix]

jokes on you if you thought I actually read it

[gilded valley]

only one state seems to force mandatory unlimited rollover

[brave matrix]

it dosent say there that they dont roll over year after year

[gilded valley]

and only a handful enforce limited rollover

[gilded valley]

the page very literally goes state by state and explains whether or not that state has laws around it or not

[fringe sphinx]

But most require payment of accrued vacation days, albeit they -can- be cutoff by use it or lose it policies.

[brave matrix]

no, we were talking about the UK, not the US.

[gilded valley]

yes - that's the same situation as here in the UK (and in much of the EU)

[gilded valley]

and nothing on the page says you don't get free ice cream on those days either

[vapid jay]

Optimise for life, not work. Work will lay you off cheerfully whilst CxOs pay themselves astronomical bonuses, and you won't get a 2nd life to live.

[vapid jay]

? - it was a worthy link to follow..

[near ocean]

We get 5 days "rolling over" to the next year but you have until end of march to use them or you lose them

And by we I mean current co, previous one didnt do so

[dense mesa]

We have 5 days rolling over too, I really hope they're not days you have to use by March 😂 too late either way

[vapid jay]

Imagine missing out on a life experience like that for a job that lays you off the next month because... "oops, our planning was done superficially"

[near ocean]

Who says we're missing out? We're maxing out our PTO here

[gilded valley]

there's no way I max out my PTO this year. so far I've used 1 day, and only have plans to use 1 more (maybe a few around Xmas)

[dense mesa]

Only 1 day used since 2023??

[gilded valley]

since I started in February

[sleek egret]

there used to be an informal rule that you didn't take any vacation for the first 9 or 10 months or so

[near ocean]

Are you selling them then? No way im leaving pto on the table

[dense mesa]

I've used 2 weeks or so and that already feels like not enough

[gilded valley]

can't sell them.

but my PTO getting paid out is dwarfed by my potential for additional variable comp

[sleek egret]

I'll be honest, if a new hire took 2 weeks off in the first 6 months of work, I'd be concerned about their committement

[dense mesa]

Not 2 weeks all at once, also wtf lol

[sleek egret]

I'm just sharing my honest feelings. I can underestand why many would disagree.

[dense mesa]

US work life "balance" be crazy

[near ocean]

Thats the most boomer shit, if im old man mar you should be dead fossil ruff

[sleek egret]

lol

[sleek egret]

as Eek the Cat once said, "There's no such thing as balance"

Eek the Cat also once said, "It's fun to be nice!" so ... <shrug>

[gilded valley]

In the UK, it's ~20 days annual leave (plus public holidays) - and the norm is to take them all - so 10 days in 6mo seems fine

[near ocean]

Why offer it if you dont want people to take it

[sleek egret]

as a test?

[near ocean]

Are you a teenage girl

[fervent grove]

what a fukd up world we live in,

[sleek egret]

I heard there's no such thing as teens or girls

that those are social constructs or something like that

[dense mesa]

Props to the US for getting a bunch of people to work overtime for literally no money because of social pressure

[gilded valley]

poor poor overworked US software developers. All they have to keep them warm at night is lots of money

[fervent grove]

huehuehue

[near ocean]

As long as they pay out

Maybe ruff questions their commitment if they take home their entire pay check the first 6 months

[sleek egret]

when it's you paying someone $2k or $3k a week out of your own pocket for doing nothing, you might change your tune

[gilded valley]

even if they don't, average pay is 130k. I think that's more than twice the median for the US

[dense mesa]

Get back to work Mr Wagie, the boss wants you to on double overtime without pay. That second holiday home in the Hamptons won't pay for itself!

[maiden shore]

hi , i am new to python

[near ocean]

You wouldnt skip taking PTO for 50k GBP, would you?

[fervent grove]

ruff had some ruff times lel

[sleek egret]

I got stories that no one wants to hear

[fervent grove]

we came for code and stayed for gossip

[gilded valley]

for +50k, I'd drop down to 5 days of PTO in the contract

[near ocean]

Yea +50k, but not double the UK median

[sleek egret]

is it tripple?

[near ocean]

For +50k i'd consider going to the office

[vapid jay]

hi

[fervent grove]

honestly give me +50 and 10days and im in

[vapid jay]

how are u guys doing

[dense mesa]

<@&831776746206265384>

[woven apex]

!cban 905603551462572094 part of raid.

[inner wren]

:ok_hand: applied ban to @plucky quest permanently.

[frozen nexus]

Thank you

[woven apex]

sorry about that fellas

on your way

[mild turret]

why is general not working ?

[woven apex]

we silenced it temporarily

[vapid jay]

does anyone started working as a python develp?

[woven apex]

we're going to unmute it soon, be patient please

[gilded valley]

no, I wouldn't in that case - but that's because salaries in the UK are pretty dire. My broader point is that Americans work more but get paid well for it. they're not overworked and treated like shit as some in the US are

[vapid jay]

Spoiler: unless you own the business is hard to be truly committed, you can appear to be committed as a self-serving hack though

[vapid jay]

Again why did you take no holidays in 2023?

[fervent grove]

disagree, im pretty committed if my work is challenging

[near ocean]

They are paid better yea but im not sure most would skip PTO (the very little they have) for 100k, 150k

[gilded valley]

£££

[dense mesa]

The one boomer thing I agree with is going to the office

[near ocean]

No anz dont do me like this

[fervent grove]

nha HO is cool for 2/3 days

[vapid jay]

How would you spend the 50K?

[near ocean]

Fuck the office and their promised fruit basket and brekkie shit

[dense mesa]

Unironically just go to the office lmao

[sleek egret]

quite easily. that's only about $4k/mo

[gilded valley]

retirement planning

[dense mesa]

(I definitely didn't pay a huge amount extra for rent to be walking distance from the office)

[near ocean]

Lmao it takes hours to get to central, the only good thing is theres a spoons outside

[vapid jay]

How would you feel if you got laid off tomorrow? And does "committed" mean "focusing" or "putting in extra time"?

[fervent grove]

pretty fucked up i see ur point there, putting in extra time

[dense mesa]

Just over 20mins walk for me

[vapid jay]

So: optimise for security rather than immediate fun? Or do you think your older self would be able to enjoy life more than your current self?

[gilded valley]

his argument is ridiculous "you might be laid off so your shouldn't care"

[dense mesa]

When the free fruit is gone if you arrive too close to 9am 😈

[near ocean]

Theres always free fruit at home

[vapid jay]

how hard is it to get a job as software developer? I mean, letț

[fervent grove]

nah but i see the point and witnessed it in a former company

[gilded valley]

unuronically I get so tilted when there's no oranges left

[vapid jay]

let s say I learn python, how fast can u find a job?

[dense mesa]

I've had to start coming around 8.40am before everyone gets their bloody hands on it fr

[vapid jay]

I would not know how to spend 4K in a month but I have never made any significant money so that sounds like a fortune already to me

[gilded valley]

then you should only work in roles where you understand your position within the company

[dense mesa]

Allocate some money after essentials to spend for fun stuff. Invest everything else.

[near ocean]

The breakfast at my last place was gone 8:30 and it was just some shit croissants from a pret nearby

[sleek egret]

you just buy more expensive shit as you make more money because most of your friends will also be making more money and buying more expensive shit

[near ocean]

Every other wednesday, as if it costs them anything to have it every morning

[vapid jay]

Putting in extra time and being laid off sounds like a potential disappointment, especially if the company laid off already and is likely to do it again

[fervent grove]

u can always be replaced
so make urself irreplaceable

[gilded valley]

really? you must have a very narrow mind.

I can think of countless ways to spend 4k in a month

[vapid jay]

Depends on what "caring" means. What does it mean? That if somebody asks you you'd reply "yes, I do care, Sir?" or actual extra work/time for the same pay?

[vapid jay]

6 months

[sleek egret]

I recall a woman I was seeing... we estimated the cost of the shoes in her closet. added up to more than her car, which was a higher end mercedes.

[gilded valley]

>never made any money
>thinks you shouldn't care about your job

[vapid jay]

What would you specifically buy?

[sleek egret]

personally? toys mostly

[fervent grove]

<--drugs

[vapid jay]

With a significant quality of life improvement? What's an idea?

[sleek egret]

but whatever, I've made a lot in a year and almost nothing. it doesn't really matter much to me. toys are just toys.

[sleek egret]

nah, my life is already soft and cushy. a bit more money won't change that.

[vapid jay]

Fail to see the point. Explain?

[fervent grove]

blessed

[sleek egret]

indeed

[vapid jay]

Videogames? Steam downloads? Or actual toys like collectible cards, etc.?

[sleek egret]

I don't care about any of those things

[vapid jay]

That's what I thought

[vapid jay]

So which toys did you mean?

[sleek egret]

more along the lines of motorcycles, boats, cars, electronics, machine tools, vacations, etc

[gilded valley]

fly to Tajikistan for a week

[sleek egret]

it's nice to treat friends to trips too

[fervent grove]

MTG LOTR card for 2mio bucks

[sleek egret]

that takes care of one month of $4k. what about the next month?

[gilded valley]

fly to Suriname for a week

[sleek egret]

why?

[near ocean]

Getaway in spain, and then italy, and then switzerland, and then sweden, should be about there

[gilded valley]

see what Suriname is like

[sleek egret]

I'd go to kazakhstan for the steppe nomad games. that looks interesting.

[gilded valley]

I don't actually know what Suriname has - I just want to go to weird places.

Tajikistan has cool mountains, I think Suriname has a rainforest

[sleek egret]

rainforests are uncomfortable

[gilded valley]

so is Britain

[sleek egret]

I went to alaska a couple weeks ago. kayaked next to some seals, saw a glacier, etc

[gilded valley]

sounds dope. that's month 3

[near ocean]

Did you see grizzlies and worms coming out their butts?

[sleek egret]

no, but I did see salmon spawning

didn't see any moose either.

oh, and I saw a circular rainbow. that was sort of freaky

[brave matrix]

thats the spirit!

[near ocean]

Cool ways to spend your 4k you make at work

[near remnant]

no, why?

[sleek egret]

if it's $40k/mo extra, you can take all your friends on a tropical getaway in the maldives

[gilded valley]

good choice. they won't be around for much longer

[sleek egret]

chartering a yacht is fun

fly a group into the wilderness and then hike or kayak/canoe out is super fun

you can rent tanks and shoot their cannon in nevada

[gilded valley]

you can shoot a cow with a bazooka in Vietnam

[sleek egret]

can you eat it after?

[gilded valley]

drink it maybe

[sleek egret]

bbq bazooka cow sounds awesome

[near ocean]

Is that a £4k experience though

[sleek egret]

probably more

[gilded valley]

I don't think cows or bazookas are that expensive

[sleek egret]

a cow costs a few hundred $'s and a RPG-7 round is a few hundred $'s as well

the butchering and prep doubles the cost of the meat (per pound). then distribution and retail doubles it again. more or less.

[gilded valley]

apparently 300$ for the shot. a good cow is 3k - but we're probably getting some clapped out dairy cow for 1500

[sleek egret]

vietnamese are lactose intollerant. just like 80% of the non-mutant humanity

[buoyant seal]

What are a non-mutant and mutant humanities

[delicate bane]

hmm is this true?

they did do some recent hiring at my company with people starting in sept. but thats a sample size of 1.

[fringe sphinx]

Historically, it was a thing, I just haven’t heard that recently.

Like, at one company, they planned their hiring cycles around the ‘June grads’

And many big companies will certainly run training programs but as I’ve heard it, it’s really about graduation cycle and not budgetary cycle

[delicate bane]

interesting. ours was def around budgets

but ours is a small company so that makes sense

[sleek egret]

that is only sorta true. new hires may start in sep, but they will have been hired during the winter and spring, months earlier

[delicate bane]

right

so half truth. maybe depending on the company

[marsh wind]

In my future job I'll have 48-50 😁

[brave matrix]

Thats neat. Is that because you dont work Fridays or what?

[fringe sphinx]

but, this did remind me of eternal september

[undone lantern]

Huhh

True we eat a lot of sweet stuffs so we have diabetic diabetic

We eat lots too sweet food

[marsh wind]

Nah regular mon-fri

They operated under a collective agreement that's more employee friendly I guess 😁 don't really know exact reasoning tbh, just the way it is and I definitely don't mind

I am also curious so I'll ask HR when I will start

[wanton birch]

I need some help writing the one sentence objective for the resume. Will some of you please share yours? I am not sure how general or specific I should be.

[marsh wind]

I don't have one, sorry :

[dense mesa]

Not really needed imo

[wanton birch]

@fringe sphinx said to include a short one sentence one right at the start. Perhaps it will do the job of a TLDR cover letter lol

[mighty mirage]

How do you deal with coworker that is sensitivity to others actions?

What I mean with sensitivity is a high level one that is bothering my self and others eather!

[wanton birch]

Made some changes based on your suggestions @fringe sphinx . Added a small objective and cleaned some of the BPs. I might shrink the remaining BPs even more later today. For now I will go try to see if I can get my walk in without getting struck by lightning.

[wanton birch]

There is no universal agreed upon standard for sensitivity. It'd be helpful if you give some real examples with maybe what region/culture the workplace is in.

[fringe sphinx]

Fwiw, I agree it’s not required: but i recommended -in this case- because the resume makes it unclear what type of position Fahim is seeking. Is it a research role? Simulation? SWE? Data science? Etc

[fringe sphinx]

I was thinking something that makes it clear what you’re looking for: PhD graduate with strong xyz skills seeks a abc position in the def industry. Where xyz, abc, def are tailored for your goals and perhaps the job posting.

[gritty rivet]

I agree with this article on the topic. Your first sentence is pretty good. The second one is a bit fluffy and could probably be cut.or merged in. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/30/never-put-these-outdated-sections-at-the-top-of-your-resume.html

[dense mesa]

It should be clear from experience and projects listed imo

[gilded valley]

and the choice of skills

[gritty rivet]

Yes,. Fahim, considering that you are making a bit of a shift in trajectory, I think this is exactly what you need

[fringe sphinx]

Just thinking out loud (not saying your POV is wrong, I usually would agree) Perhaps for some people, but not for this resume. And I’m not sure it’s fixable: it’s kinda the nature of a PhD: it’s a very narrow contribution in a field, so it’s always hyper-specialized and my thought was to balance this.

[gilded valley]

the resume isn't some immutable thing.

for software or data scientist roles, there are lots of ways to tailor this resume

[nocturne coral]

Hello I had a friend that said software development and ai development and hacking can all be in 1 thing and he is trying to build a super advanced robot that would take over the world that can hack systems is that possible?

[near ocean]

No and this isnt a shitposting channel

[nocturne coral]

No I am serious

I can sent you ss of it

If you want the SS tell me

[marsh wind]

it’s kinda the nature of a PhD: it’s a very narrow contribution in a field, so it’s always hyper-specialized and my thought was to balance this.
despite this being true, something you need to put emphasis on as a Phd is on the great capacity of learning ne things and adapting. While our focus is narrow we are very flexible, hence PhDs often can go in SWE, DS/ML, DE, management roles, quant, research roles....

[wanton birch]

That is not an issue as it’s a minor edit based on the specific role I am applying for. That should make it a proper TLDR of a cover letter sort of. What do you say?

[marsh wind]

btw, I already mentioned it, but I want to reframe it a bit:
I would make 2 copies of resume, one for dev/eng oriented positions and one for more research oriented and I would yeet your publications from the former (just put instead in your PhD XP description something like "published in 3 peer-reviewed journals). And, also, to change somewhat the emphasis on different skills and project so that one puts in the light your achievements in terms of engineering/software and other your achievenets as researcher

[wanton birch]

I used to do that with cover letters. I used to explain how I’ve had to learn, discover and develop all sorts of things to reach a lot of milestones in my research experience and how I wish to leverage that nature and training of facing the unknown and being prepared for a lot of rigorous grind. I’d relate them to the job requirements and all. But nowadays I skip the cover letter unless asked.

[wanton birch]

You know what!? That might let me paste a lot more projects into the resume while making complete sense. Thanks for that brilliant idea.

[marsh wind]

yeah I agree, in my (albeit limited) experience, cover letters were either not needed or just useless 😁

be careful with not overbloating your resume with sheer amount of text: perhaps add more white space actually by better tailoring which projects/XP you put there depending on role you apply for. At least when it comes to positions you really really want. I used to have one more or less generic resume that I would used when mass applying to stuff but then if someone really catches my eye I'd go and customise

[wanton birch]

Also! I just wanted to share something funny I came across the other day.

At the bottom of the job advert, it asked the applicants to spam their resumes with the keywords because their filter was failing to pick up on usual amount of keyword usage.
🤣

[near ocean]

not sure an objective statement is a good idea, but if you want one it should be short, state what kind of positions you are looking for and what kind of tech you want to work with or something
a recruiter told me to include visa information in there as well, idk if thats good advice though

[digital dew]

hello, everyone. I need some help with understanding which cycle I need set in currently task

[fringe sphinx]

Agree, it’s def a TLDR of a cover letter (which I personally never/rarely look at, esp when screening). I also agree with the idea of having different resumes for different roles, that’s all I was getting at originally: make it really clear what you’re applying for and why you’re right.

[wanton birch]

But I don’t need a visa in Canada. Sadly my name is foreign enough that one might assume. God damn it! Now why would you give me one more thing to worry about.

[fringe sphinx]

The visa/work auth stuff can be important. Even when job desc says: must be authorized to work/not need sponsorship, we still get many applicants who aren’t. And, this leads to some (unfair) filtering of resumes of foreign educated applicants.

[near ocean]

Heh, because I had the same issue

[wanton birch]

What could be a tasteful way of including my residence status in the resume?

[near ocean]

For me it was "Full settled status." at the end of the obj statement

[wanton birch]

🤔

[near ocean]

(but that's a uk specific thing)
You can say you have right to work and dont need a visa sponsorship, look up the appropriate wording

[fringe sphinx]

It’s probably country specific, maybe look at the language used in the job descriptions. In US, I see ‘must be authorized to work in US’

[wanton birch]

My education is British but I live in Canada.

[fringe sphinx]

This would be a good question to a recruiter, fwiw

[hearty island]

i got rejected from morgan stanley again

[grizzled bear]

I’ve been programming a while but I’m 16 what should I do to get a job in programming

[hearty island]

should i bother reaching out to the morgan stanley recruiter

[fringe sphinx]

Go to college?

[grizzled bear]

@fringe sphinx I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear my hopes are to go to college and get a proper degree but I was hoping to pick up freelance jobs where would I start

[hearty island]

time to apply for a starbucks project manager position

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, I dunno. Lots of people ask this question. Maybe someone else has an idea, but it's usually hard to land work when you're young, unless you know someone (ie: family friend)

[grizzled bear]

@fringe sphinx ok thank you any way

[marsh wind]

#career-advice message

we had this exact type of discussion some time ago (tbh it's very much a recurring one as Billy said). You can lookup up that part of our messages, I beleive it'll be relevant for you

[grizzled bear]

@marsh wind thx so much

[marsh wind]

but, long story short, short of getting some small gigs via ppl you know, yo don't really have viable options.

[hearty island]

mods remove pls

[solid shoal]

I will remove it myself

Pimp

[hearty island]

ok i reached out to the morgan stanley recruiter, let's see what she has to say

[solid shoal]

Thanks pimp @hearty island

[hearty island]

can you please stop calling me that lol

[solid shoal]

What should i call you, you could of asked me not to share that but you said mods remove this

[hearty island]

well not calling me a pimp is a good start 💀

[solid shoal]

But when someone act like that

What should you call him!

[hearty island]

i haven't cracked my usual amount of job apps today, nothing's really being posted

[solid shoal]

Talking to me?

[hearty island]

nah

[solid shoal]

Okay

So what are you?

[vapid jay]

Can we stop this ?

Don't be rude

We don't like rudeness 🙂

[solid shoal]

Like a developer? frontend, backkend @hearty island

[hearty island]

project manager

[solid shoal]

Oh i see, well i'm front end developer

[hearty island]

nice

[solid shoal]

Thanks

[wanton birch]

Wait! Front end people are called developers as well?

[solid shoal]

Why not?

[wanton birch]

I mean yeah. Technically speaking, they do develop things.

[solid shoal]

Yep and they deal with the backend a lot and they make specific features, so yeah lol

[wanton birch]

I mean.... not going to argue with your identity. You're right.

[solid shoal]

But about you, what are you? a backend or fullstack or what!

[wanton birch]

more of an imposter

[solid shoal]

Lol

[high coral]

I've got 1 more year left until I've complete my undergrad degree in Computer Science. I am very interested in getting my Masters degree.
What are the pros / cons of an MS, and how should i begin my search for finding a Masters program for me?

[buoyant seal]

Cons:

• spending 2 years more that could be spent on already doing the career itself (earning money and grinding work experience)
• not useful for all software engineering directions (DevOps engineers do not benefit for example)

Pros:

• Super useful for data scientist / machine learning engineering path (Data scientists are even in demand to have PhD degree)
• probably useful for some other software engineering paths
• Easier will be to immigrate to other countries. Master's degree gives additional bonus points.

[high coral]

i am interested in doing something with ML...

[undone lantern]

I heard a comment in YouTube about a girl that she study IT in vietnam University but then she can't have enough money. Then, she come to South Korea to "export work"( this require extreme endurance). And then she come back to vietnam, but this time she go to Korea and then she study in Korean university( also IT) . Now I'm extremely motivated

To go to South Korea and work and then have moni and then study in the south Korea Seoul university

I like Seoul University most because it is a very nice university

It is very big and it has beautiful stuffs

[hearty island]

i've been cold emailing jpm chase ppl lmao

[fringe sphinx]

I think a masters is a nice to have, it by itself doesn’t get you much and unless you’re going PhD path, I’d advocate for a part time / evening master program if that’s an option. That said, I got mine and value what I learned it in: it’s definitely more interesting material, and certainly gives you a salary bump. I think the 5 year bachelors/masters programs make sense, but 2 years I have a hard time justifying

[high coral]

what prompted you to get your masters, and what did you study / concentrate in?

[dreamy shadow]

I don't agree with that it's wasting 2 years. You can take part time masters. More senior positions (director) tends to require, or at least prefer, higher education credentials.

[fringe sphinx]

Personal life goal, I was already working. I continued into a PhD program and was ABD, but never did finish

[dreamy shadow]

With degree inflation, masters is becoming the new BS.

[fringe sphinx]

At this stage of my career, I do wish I finished the PhD.

[dreamy shadow]

I have yet to meet someone who did not regret getting their PhD.

[high coral]

what is ABD?

[fringe sphinx]

All but dissertation

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_but_dissertation

[high coral]

what did you focus on in your MS / PHD program?
and answer this as you wish, but, did the 2 programs put you in a pit of debt you had to fight your way out of? having the lingering debt is one of my fears

[fringe sphinx]

I don’t want to dox myself so I’ll just say: computing 🙂

But I didn’t go in debt: my employers paid for my masters classes

[high coral]

fair

[fringe sphinx]

And for PhD, more or less the same, although a good chunk I paid for

[high coral]

oh wow, and any strings attached for once you completed your courses?
is it common for employers to say: "yea, go get your masters, we'll pay!"

[high coral]

which did you get more out of, MS or PhD?

[fringe sphinx]

Not really, many employers will pay education benefits… altho might limit to one class a semester/etc.

[leaden jasper]

Usually they require a minimum of a B or an A for them to pay. Many also stipulate you stay X amount of months per course they pay for, so they can theoretically reap the benefits of the class they're paying for.

[fringe sphinx]

I didn’t have this experience personally, I had no strings, but totally believe it

[high coral]

it seems you chose a good company to work for 🙂

[high coral]

it makes sense for a company to do this, but this type of commitment would scare me. I personally wouldn't want to sign up for something like this

[smoky quest]

not much different from sign on bonuses, sponsorship for visas, etc. which are typically tied to a length of stay

[sleek egret]

howdee ho neighbor

[marsh wind]

What do you call them? 🙂

[marsh wind]

Why so?

[fringe sphinx]

When you're the principal / top guy / consultant, PhD is very helpful to have in your credentials. There's a lot of snobbery in the top ranks, especially for potential clients/customers.

[wanton birch]

I am not sure at what stage of your career you are right now. Like how many years from retirement. But there were a sizeable number of almost-seniors in the lab where I did most of the work. One of them actually retired and then started it!

[fringe sphinx]

I toy with the idea every now and then, it's more a life goal at this point. I should probably call my old advisor.

[wanton birch]

Fronties

[sleek egret]

if you retire then do something else, have you really retired at all?

[sleek egret]

I call them designers

[marsh wind]

🤔 Hmmm we'll see I guess

[dense mesa]

Is this in the US? Ik a fair amount of people who quit halfway through to work in finance

[dreamy shadow]

Yes, I'm in the US.

[gilded valley]

the people who don't are those who end up in top-tier AI roles - people at Deepmind etc

but obviously those people are few and far between

[elder forge]

Academia is composed entirely of people who did not regret getting a PhD.

[gilded valley]

not necessarily

[hearty island]

final presentation for the internship ✅

[brave matrix]

I updated my resume and also made room for some personal projects, should I put a summary of what I am and what I'm looking for?

[true harness]

the personal project descriptions are way too casual for a resume

[brave matrix]

what details did you expect?

[true harness]

it's not even a lack of details, though that is an issue. the descriptions are just not professional. you can't be saying "kind of" or exclamation points, imo

for details, i'd expect more about what makes the project interesting: what's cool about it, why you did certain things, etc

[brave matrix]

yeah theyre not very professional

but there isnt more space than one or two lines per project, if I want to keep everything in one page

[true harness]

you don't need to include all of them, and you can condense other sections

[near ocean]

also generally you shouldnt ignore red squiggly lines

that allows you to explore and query a database

is your first Experience's bullet point that you used BFS?

[brave matrix]

yeah I even have a grammarly warning, but rest assured I corrected that 😅

[brave matrix]

wdym?

[true harness]

• first xp, first bullet i think needs more detail about the impact. you processed the paths, so what? what did you do with the results? i would probably also remove the reference to BFS, it's a basic algorithm so i don't think including it would help
• in general, a lot of the bullets would benefit from adding the "impact" (i.e., the R in STAR)
• your project descriptions need to be improved. i would say keep the top 2-3 and expand on the descriptions
• the skills section honestly looks terrible. i don't think anyone would actually read that; it's too much all smushed together. i would say slim it down and maybe use some newlines to separate different sections. you don't have any mention of rust on the rest of the resume, so it might as well not be there. same with other techs you mention

[true harness]

the BFS part isn't interesting. did you use techniques to reduce memory footprint? what about how fast? etc

[brave matrix]

lmao you insult my skills and Rust!!