career-advice

[smoky quest]

right now, it's like you are asking to compete in the olympic games without wanting to train for it and qualify for it

[summer roost]

by "studying" they mean pursuing a degree, not online certificates.

[light sequoia]

I know tailwind react next.js firebase react redux

[smoky quest]

great, so you have heard of what a tennis racket is. It doesn't make you a tennis champion

[light sequoia]

What the heck

[harsh river]

i'll hire you for a hello world app

[light sequoia]

If there is certificate I can do here I would be happy to hear

[smoky quest]

!rule 5

[inner wren]

Rules

5. Do not provide or request help on projects that may violate terms of service, or that may be deemed inappropriate, malicious, or illegal.

[harsh river]

we have spent the last hour or so telling you that certificates will get you nowhere

[fervent grove]

we told u before certificates wont give u an advantage

[harsh river]

i thought the /s was implied .-.

[smoky quest]

bro

[light sequoia]

So what should I do

[fervent grove]

this

[light sequoia]

What do you mean abrod

[summer roost]

reread the conversation?

[smoky quest]

• Make sure you have the grades to go to college/university
• Have fun and build things. Make games, websites, mobile apps, robots, AI/ML, your own programming language, etc.
• Given your situation, try to aim for studying abroad in a country that would give you more chances
  bro

[summer roost]

abroad means in another country. Exchange student, student visa, etc.

[fervent grove]

but not north korea

[smoky quest]

or Russia

[harsh river]

or iran (oh wait)

[light sequoia]

Any other way my mentor

[summer roost]

your best chance of a good career is leaving Iran. Your best chance of leaving Iran is to get a degree, and emigrate to another country either on a student visa or on a work visa - but work visas for skilled work like software development are unlikely to be given to people without degrees.

[light sequoia]

Ik because of that I want to get job to get out of here

[summer roost]

you almost certainly will not be able to do it in that order

[fervent grove]

we are doing circles at this point for the 3/4 time

[summer roost]

you almost certainly will need to get a degree first (or at least, get enrolled in a degree program) before you will be able to leave the country.

[smoky quest]

priority will be given to the 22 years old with degrees. Not people without a degree like you bro

[summer roost]

you could look into what it would take to claim asylum in another country, but it won't necessarily be easy to get work as a refugee, especially not skilled work, especially as a refugee without a degree

the degree is the single most useful tool available to you.

[light sequoia]

Is this my last step

Guys can I add you friend so I can talk to you

[smoky quest]

just converse in this channel bro

[summer roost]

I can't imagine what we could say that we haven't already said here

[light sequoia]

Bruh you guys are mentor in future I need help

[fervent grove]

most of the ppl here did help u for 1h straight

[light sequoia]

Thanks guys still I need help

Bruh please add me friend

[fervent grove]

u can always come back here and seek for advice

[light sequoia]

What's problem to add me friend

[summer roost]

I don't think I can be much clearer. Most foreign companies cannot legally hire you to work for them as things stand today. Even if they could, they have no reason to choose you over a more qualified candidate. The best things you can do for yourself are become more qualified by getting a degree, and escape the legal obstacles to getting hired by emigrating.

[light sequoia]

Idk if you are online

What about freelancer

[summer roost]

You cannot legally freelance for most people, and you cannot legally register to work on most freelancer sites.

[midnight lantern]

Well this has been quite the interesting convo, cos i happen to be in a similar situation to our iranian fellow haha

[harsh river]

which fellow are you? russian? (out of curiosity)

[fervent grove]

🗿

[midnight lantern]

Pakistani 💀

[harsh river]

as the bro says, sorry bro

[midnight lantern]

I'm a 17yo coder, been freelancing for a while on some sites and made some money, but I wanna get a real job now haha.. (sadly don't have a degree yet)

[fervent grove]

so ull pursue one?

[midnight lantern]

Well yeah. Not going so well rn tho, but I'll do it. No other way to go

[fervent grove]

we all struggled on the way just stick with it u got this

[midnight lantern]

Thanks mate

[smoky quest]

combining your experience with a degree would make you so awesome!

[harsh river]

with some uh minor major changes

[midnight lantern]

Im all ears if you have any suggestions haha,

[harsh river]

your bio for one

[midnight lantern]

Oh lol yes

[harsh river]

would be a shame if the bro @smoky quest ever interviewed you

[smoky quest]

oh bro

[smoky quest]

<@&831776746206265384> bio is not great

[midnight lantern]

oops. is it ban time?

[fervent grove]

no we trollin u, they just follow ur bio

[midnight lantern]

nice xd

[smoky quest]

Given you bio, I won't help you more bro

[midnight lantern]

that's all great except for the fact that i know ur address 💀 bro

[smoky quest]

So threats that need to be reported then

[harsh river]

you're making it worse for yourself.... such a shame

[fervent grove]

atleast i tried

[midnight lantern]

ig ill change it when i start seeking a job

[summer roost]

The bio is immature, but the pronouns are especially not great for this community...

[midnight lantern]

oh fair enough

[fervent grove]

answered like a true politician

[harsh river]

well he is a mod, same difference

[midnight lantern]

how do i look now

[fervent grove]

typical 17yo roblox player

[light sequoia]

Help me

Request you friend accept I need more help and don't answer of many question

Guys is there any online certificate

[summer roost]

I'm talking it over with some other mods. I appreciate you changing the pronouns box to something inoffensive. The bio isn't exactly breaking any rules, but we have seen people get confused or offended by similar bios in the past. At this point I'm not going to say that you must change it, but I think it would be a good idea for you to change it anyway, to reduce the odds of miscommunication with other server members who don't realize it's a joke, or who don't find it funny.

[vapid jay]

Get a degree

[vapid jay]

What pronouns?

[summer roost]

They've been changed

[smoky quest]

We are going in circle now bro.
You already asked the same questions and the answers won't change

[midnight lantern]

haha i guess

[buoyant seal]

You may be wishing to give some thought in cleansing your social network profiles from such jokes too tbh. In my country at least, we tend to search candidate pressence over network and checking its content. With finding such jokes, i could bet many people would start having second thoughts with hiring you.
Would u wish to have problems with finding job just because of a such silly reason like this?

[midnight lantern]

hmm you're right tbh.. i'll switch to something more professional.

[dapper bane]

hey what stuff should i know to make bots with python ?

how r bots deployed

[harsh river]

ask in #python-discussion

[dapper bane]

ok

[wanton birch]

So I got contacted by a recruiter. I am not in Canada right now but luckily the recruiter agreed to use MS Teams to call and talk to me.

Too bad this is one of the jobs that I applied solely out of my confidence that I can learn and excel at anything 🤣

[fervent grove]

too much confidence i see 😄

the headhunter was like wtf bro

[granite mica]

I saw this yt short
https://youtube.com/shorts/HhbutSEmeaE?feature=share

and I was reading the comments, what do you guys think? How would you ask for a raise particularly in a tech environment?

[wanton birch]

Well I didn’t lie in my application anywhere. They saw my resume and skills and experience and decided to email me.

[fervent grove]

its funny isnt it shows how desperate they search for someone happened to me aswell hahaha

[wanton birch]

Yeah. Maybe they are struggling to find the unicorn. Most likely scared away people who have better background than me.

Now it looks like I am getting one phone call per 100+ applications now

[fervent grove]

uff

[remote coral]

Suggest a good comprehensive data science, AI ML course available online for paid/free ( yt, udemy, Coursera anything works)
Preferably cheaper

[wanton birch]

Wrong channel. Try #data-science-and-ml

[fervent grove]

for what u apply fahim

[spark knot]

If you know anything about Identity & Access Management or API-Development, you could check out iC Consult. I'm employed there and can highly recommend trying to get in. It's about consulting big companies like BMW & Mercedes, but you don't need to be a sales-guy, most of our people are doing 90% technical implementation.

Just FYI, because I would be happy about some colleagues that are familar with python scripting 😄

[valid bronze]

Today at work, I was offer to switch from development role into managment, where I will be leading team of 6 developers...I have never tried anything like that, both ideas sounds nice to me, tho I think I love development too much to let it go now...any advice? I would try managment and it sounds interesting, plus ceo thinks I'm able to handle it and we need it...

[fringe sphinx]

I've worked on both sides, large teams and small. Lead/management roles can be fulfilling, where you can have a greater impact. They're good for your career development. They often mean more work for same pay, especially at the team lead level, but I think it's a good thing and a good experience. Some people grow into it and pursue a management track (less engineering), or decide they don't like it and stick with an engineering track. My advice: study the field. There are great software engineering books out there, a lot of wisdom to learn from. Keep your technical skills sharp: it's easy to spend too much time on nonsense/bureaucracy at the cost of technical skills. Your next job will likely want a strong engineer+leader, not a pure leader. I had one job leading a small team where I spent so much time in corporate meetings that I think I knew less when I left than when I arrived.

[fringe sphinx]

I think it's 100% right... another way to say it is: talk about what you can do for the company, not what the company can do for you (to channel jfk)

[valid bronze]

thanks! this is gold to me right now

[delicate bane]

1% conversion sounds about right. there may be some things you can do to up that to 5% or more but it may just be the market, how you tailor resume, various other factors, etc. have you considered cold emailing/messaging recruiters/hiring managers

[hearty island]

guys, i finished the entire dashboard again!

now it's time for management to break it! again!

i can't wait till august to start grinding job apps

and my internship ends august 11th

[smoky quest]

it's a two way door. If you don't like it or not working out, you can always go back.
However having had that experience would make it easier in the future if you want to try again.

But no one can guess remotely if you will like it or not. It's up to you and everyone is different.

[smoky quest]

I would recommend to read https://www.amazon.com/Managers-Path-Leaders-Navigating-Growth/dp/1491973897 It's a great book that gives overview of the different roles

[vapid jay]

Ah dunno, if to stay in the current work, which is close to home like 10 minutes on foot, but booring as fuck, and they may also require 1 month a year to be fully avaible 24/7

Or to go into a second workplace which they pay me 150€ more, (although dunno if with taxes dunno how much are they), which is 1 hour from home, but they have ac and a cool workplace? Also it doesn't look like I am required to be available 24/7

[radiant moon]

24/7 for an entire month!? Dayum

you must really hate commuting, to even consider that first one

[true harness]

if it's so boring, why do they want you to be on call for so long

[vapid jay]

I suppose to not pay an extra employee to do night shift, or pay someone for night shifts as it would likely cost more, and more liabilities due to regulations

[fringe sphinx]

Presumably because it’s also a rare call?

[vapid jay]

Eh as I see from now to other colleagues, it is not

I am 19M .. move to college next month .
Where can I do part time job or internship along with college which also upskill me and pay me also

[vapid jay]

Eh, I'd wish
Funnly enough it's mostly commuting, since it's mostly customer support/sys admin crap

[vapid jay]

Anyone

[deft herald]

1 - give it more than 30s for someone to respond
2 - you can do internships during the summer/off semester

[vapid jay]

College is a scam
You can find plenty of workplaces that would train you while paying

[deft herald]

You can find plenty of workplaces that would train you while paying

You can?

[vapid jay]

Where what are best places

About how, just spam
A matter of probability, the more you try, the more likely you get to find someone

Then it's all about networking

Actually i college fees is 300 per month

Damm it man too much.. it so good college

Looking for part-time job

Still a waste of time
Every workplace has it's own pipeline, so you end up spending anyway time to learn

Usefull only if you want to join into one of those really protected categories like doctors, lawyers, pharmacists and so on

Okay does anyone know online platform
Which should be best one
And be honest .

[vapid jay]

Then here it's not really a great place, go outside and ask people in workshop or use stuff like just eat, it's all about Networking

[vapid jay]

It really depends on the state. Try everything and see what works.

Ok

Btw are you student or working man

Both(?)
A self defined never ending student, although I am not in school, and working

Oh

[true harness]

why would a company hire someone they have to train over someone they don't have to train as much?

[vapid jay]

Eh well that's also on experience
Surely they won't get someone for like python
If they don't even know what that is

[true harness]

wdym "that's also on experience"?

[vapid jay]

On your background, you can know python, in this example, as being self though, or having some other past experience, even without doing a specific school

So, they may hire you even if you haven't done a specific school, as long they like you
It's all about Networking in the end

[true harness]

sure. all I'll say is that there has been extensive discussion about the benefits of college for swe jobs in this channel already. simply saying college is a scam without further detail is incorrect

[near ocean]

have you done this yourself or know someone who has?

[light sequoia]

Guys can I get a job without certificate

[harsh river]

we've hard this conversation already, yes you can get a job without a certificate, but your chances will be slim to none

[light sequoia]

Bruh more specific

[light sequoia]

Between how u r always online

Sorry I'm little disturbing but if I want to get job without certificate what level should I be and how I understand I'm in that level

[harsh river]

how more specific do you want people to get over and over again? it's extremely hard to get a job in these fields without a degree, certificates aren't worth anything for python, if you want to try then you need to work on demonstrable skills or projects that'll make you stand out, also i literally just woke up

[true harness]

the certification that you need is a B.S CS

[light sequoia]

Give an example of project

[light sequoia]

I appreciate your helping but my personality I need more information

[vapid jay]

That's all about of reference, everyone has different experience, or has a quota to share for a reason or another

Like school here, when there were lockdowns and stuff of the kind, many were against teaching over the internet, because of strawhats like not being a good education. But in reality it was all about business/schools losing money

[light sequoia]

Right man

[harsh river]

they're in an a situation of being in iran, a place where it's pretty much impossible to get jobs with NA / EU companies.
they'll need to stand out in order to get a job in the few remaining places where they can get a job

[light sequoia]

Thanks, another problem I have I just know English in Asia country they need other language if I want to work for Dubai I need to know Arabic but I just know English and persain

This world is confusing the only people got is you guys

@harsh river do you have job and where?

[harsh river]

english will get you pretty far in these fields.

[vapid jay]

Ah... I wonder why everyone seems to be from iran these days..., Anyhow you're right
Although I wouldn't suggest any paid certificate. They're expensive and useless.
If a job requires it, then usually they also pay for it

[valid bronze]

thank you so much!

[wanton birch]

This one was for a controls and testing engineer role.

[wanton birch]

Yeah. Tried that without any success. Not only that nobody ever responds, the recruiters who originally contacted me also ends up ghosting. I haven’t found it easy to establish communication with recruiters / HR folks overall.

[delicate bane]

hmm bummer. im thinking of more the hiring managers directly

[verbal parcel]

I am new to phyton. I have free 15 hours a day. How much time do i need to spend for become good at it in 2month.?

[wanton birch]

I couldn’t find the hiring manager’s info in a lot of cases. But there were a lot of talent acquisition folks and HR folks.

Over a year and several hundred applications later, I think I am just shite. Well! Got to find a way to make this shite work!

[wanton birch]

Wrong channel. Please go to #❓｜how-to-get-help

[fervent grove]

rather in #python-discussion

[fervent grove]

naaaa HR is just "rotten flesh" lel, most of em are rrly lazy and incompetent

[wanton birch]

That doesn’t seem to stop others from securing a job. So I am not using that as the explanation for my failure.

[fervent grove]

whats ur degree and score

[delicate bane]

gotcha. gotcha. it might be worth taking a look at your cold messages again but if you dont think so then dw about it. this method does require more time than just sending out apps

[wanton birch]

My background is Aerospace Engineering. If by score you are asking about GPA like stuff, then I graduated at the top of my class (up to Masters). Then I completed a PhD in Aerospace Engineering.

[fervent grove]

wild and even with PhD u get no recognition? control and testing is a rather "normal" field isnt it?

[wanton birch]

Nobody cares about my degrees. Like I am saying, it took many hundreds of applications to get a few initial phone calls. Since it’s been over a year, there’s been many revisions of my resume and cover letters as well.

Control and Testing in the context of that job is about developing and testing electrical systems (for autonomous road vehicles). I don’t know what you mean by normal.

[fervent grove]

by normal i mean a positions for Bachelor/Master

cant imagine the market to be flooded with ppl like u tbh

[wanton birch]

There’s no relationship between the two. There are entry level hires and field expert hires. Your credentials and experience must be commensurate to that.

[fervent grove]

so are u applying for expert positions, maybe they lack projects papers of urs and therefore they doubt?

[wanton birch]

I have been applying for everything from internships where they allow graduates all the way to senior positions. After months of that, I also started applying for other related fields on the side. Then I also started applying to vaguely related stuff. So on and on.

My applications include details of my doctoral thesis, publications and other projects.

[open cradle]

I did not read the full thread tho. Could it be because you are applying to companies that use automated tools to parse CVs and yours is not compatible? I am just wondering

[wanton birch]

I have no reason to think it’s an ATS issue.

[fervent grove]

do they straight discard those CVs?

[wanton birch]

Speaking of resumes, I’ll make yet another new master version this weekend. Yay!

[fervent grove]

wild, now that @open cradle mentioned it im a bit frightened to need to do so aswell lol

[wanton birch]

It kinda makes you feel all hopeful. Like when you buy a lottery ticket or something. You know well it’s not going to work. But you also know well that you feel a bit delusional and love daydreaming about the what if situation where you win! 🤣

[fervent grove]

hahaha so far i was pretty upset with my overall answer-rate aswell but my CV and Resume are "Pictures" from PS, soooo maybe this could be a reason

[wanton birch]

Unless you are doing something wildly different than most applicants, I don’t see why you’d assume that yours isn’t making it pass the filter.

[fervent grove]

its a "Picture" rather than an txt file
so they wouldnt be able to get the text and parse it in a machine

[wanton birch]

Wtf!? Why would they be pictures?

[fervent grove]

see

i do send PDFs

[wanton birch]

Do you not send PDFs?

They should have Optical Character Recognition sort of thing

[fervent grove]

so now u unsecured me enough imma join u on weekend and write it new hahahaha

[wanton birch]

What’s your background? Academic and work experience I mean.

[light sequoia]

I'm Afghan for surviving I migrated to Iran, all over there are Iranian?

[fervent grove]

Science and Data Science (Chemistry)

[wanton birch]

I applied for a tonne of Machine Learning and Data Science jobs too 🤣

[fervent grove]

we got so much in common hope u dont steal MY jobs 😛

[wanton birch]

My own field doesn’t want me why on earth would your people pick me over you! By the way, where are you based?

[fervent grove]

i can tell for fact that workday is super bad at recognise text from my PDF

[wanton birch]

A German company made me apply for an internship job and then rejected me. I mean I wasn’t forced, I just applied. Then they emailed me trying to sell me a training course which will make me more employable. 🤣 🔫

[open cradle]

I do not know. Most of the companies I apply they are not using ATS parsers

[fervent grove]

those "campusscouts" scam af hahahaha

[fervent grove]

i mean i get invited to interviews so i guess its fine but maybe the big companies dont dunno

[open cradle]

I think a workday parser is just a monkey typing random words. Not even with the cleanest CV ATS orientes I got 50% right

[vapid jay]

They don't even read

[fervent grove]

I trust HR to do that

[vapid jay]

Good luck
Many that I saw, have no idea wth are they doing

[wanton birch]

There’s so much over abundance of qualified people that HR folks often talk about how they get 7-9 seconds per resume.

[fervent grove]

HR is just a sad job and they get "burned out" fast

[vapid jay]

Human resources
Aka inhumane resources

[fervent grove]

wtf

[wanton birch]

Go ask a psychologist and a neurologist what happens to human decision making and reasoning skills when they have to resort to using the fast acting part of their brain

[open cradle]

But I also understand them. One interview I was applying for, there were 9.000 applicants for 1 vacancy. I do not think they were using ATS

[fervent grove]

was about to say that would be a fun project to do math with lets say 1000 candidates and the HR decisions

result ==> based on picture kappa

[wanton birch]

Why add those unnecessary zeros?

You are one of them Europeans, aren’t you? It probably means nine thousand.

[fervent grove]

normally i write 9k but its unprofessional lelelele

[open cradle]

Yes hahahah. I do not mean 9 applicants

[fervent grove]

if Fahim would work for HR he would simply discard 8991 CVs 🗿

[open cradle]

Here we do not typically use "," as separator for that

[wanton birch]

Boy! All your numbers must look like IPV4 addresses

[fervent grove]

where would we get there later we would use inch

[wanton birch]

Hard for hackers to figure out if that’s your bank balance you noted down or IP address

[open cradle]

To me it is more aesthetic. But it is also because we have always used this representation. Same with metric system 😂

[fervent grove]

metric is superior

science with imperial is just not good at all

[silk tide]

Boa tarde a todos

[wanton birch]

I’ll go watch some ancient Egypt stuff and try to forget all about this failure for a while. Wish you guys all the best with your hunt.

[fervent grove]

wish u all the best!

[wheat surge]

Hey are you from iran ? If so you can dm me about it maybe i could help
(Iranian too btw)

[light sequoia]

Yah why not

[short peak]

I don't speak non-moonlander

[fervent grove]

"Calculations were carried out using the metric system, but display readouts were in units of feet, feet per second, and nautical miles – units that the Apollo astronauts were accustomed to"
~sorry

[short peak]

Tell that to mah freebrams. We were able to go between two different systems and it work perfectly fine

[fervent grove]

SI is superior u cant argue on that can u huh 😄

[short peak]

Proof is in the puddin

[dark thunder]

i’m currently an incoming freshman, i’ve been programming for a little while now and think i know the basics and say i would be at an intermediate level. but i want to know how do i know if i’m ready to apply for internships as a freshman, i know it’s hard to score one, but i want the experience as soon as possible. what’s the best ways to get ready to get qualified for internships

[smoky quest]

• Have good grades
• Dive deeper in the school projects

[light sequoia]

I learn programming 3 years I can't get a job

[dark thunder]

do they look for specifics tho, like do i need to have a good understanding of algs etc. also what do you mean dive deeper in the school projects

[dark thunder]

what type of projects have you done ?

[short peak]

On the school projects probably along the lines of taking a larger programming project to the max. Gotta do it for a grade, might as well soar above the other classmates to get yourself noticed

[open cradle]

"Mars Climate Orbiter" literally crashed due to a misunderstanding when using two different systems

[short peak]

I mean yeah, just some fun banter. Been listening to a lot of Fat electrician recently

[fervent grove]

name implies big brain

[short peak]

He be big brain and had me rolling like the first time I hard a Bill burr/Dave Chappelle show

[fervent grove]

is there some sort of buisness abbreviations cheat sheet? 😄

[fringe sphinx]

Wait till you hear all the random engineering sayings that the boomers say.

[pine sleet]

such as

[true harness]

reprex

[fringe sphinx]

I won’t share my secrets

[gritty rivet]

How do you know if you're ready to apply for internships? You don't know, but you apply anyway.

Develop your resume with specific openings in mind, get as much feedback as you can on your resume to improve it as best you can, and send it out.

[summer roost]

My favorite is "bouncing" a daemon - meaning bringing it down and back up.

[fringe sphinx]

My team is constantly making fun of me. That and they don’t get my movie references.

[red crown]

Hi, I'm looking for a comprehensive python backend developer course or roadmap🙏

[gritty rivet]

roadmaps.sh/backend and roadmaps.sh/python

[celest kite]

I frequently run docker containers as daemons and bounce them, so that's definitely still a thing

[smoky quest]

exactly what Andrew-san said.
School projects will be focused on specific areas and constrained by time. So taking it further than just the ask from the teacher is beneficial for multiple reasons:

• It will stand out as deeper than what other students will have
• It will help you dive deeper in important topics

[smoky quest]

<@&831776746206265384> ads

[summer roost]

!tempban 606669651195461642 1d It seems like you joined our server just to advertise. If you rejoin, be sure to read our rules more closely.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @lucid bobcat until <t:1690588896:f> (1 day).

[steady quest]

Host how can you do this thing of stuffs u have been doing at once for a while ?

[peak halo]

Sorry, can you rephrase that?

[steady quest]

Y

[peak halo]

I'm so unsure as to what you meant that I don't know what clarifying question to ask.

[open cradle]

I get redirected to a investment portal

[smoky quest]

I prefer to simply call it "career".
That and the fact there is a typo. It should be https://roadmap.sh

[wanton birch]

So a recruiter contacted me about a position I applied for and asked to call me to speak about it. I am not in country so I requested we do it over the internet. They agreed and sent me a MS Teams invitation.

Do I need to install anything for that or will it work simply from my browser like zoom?

[smoky quest]

never ever ever ever yolo business calls.
Always set things up before hand and try them out way before the call. You don't want to have the stress of discovering you have to install or configure something 2 min before the call

[wanton birch]

Exactly what I do every time even for zoom. Or anything really. Just that I never ever used teams so not sure.

[smoky quest]

then read the documentation about ms teams for your OS and try it out 🙂

[wanton birch]

Just tested all software and hardware. They are all working. Hopefully they remain working during the interview.

[fervent grove]

browser works just fine for me aswell, but nice to hear u getting somewhere! 😄

[wanton birch]

Never used teams before. So just wanted to make sure it’d definitely work. Interview is 9 AM her time. Do not wish to give her day a bad start. Lol

[buoyant seal]

Interviewing candidates to backend positions into our company. I have in good 90% cases the same complain.
Majority of people are having really poor SQL(postgresql usually sought) skills.
And they don't have it just at Junior level, people are pretty much deserving in everything else except SQL category Middle rank, suffering often from same problem.

So that's my advice:
People at Junior and Middle ranks too. if u are seeking backend positions, please try to learn SQL to a way better and more thorough level. It is embarasing each time finding people SQL skills at intern level, even if they are Middle ranked in every other category

SQL stuff is very fundamental cornerstone stuff that needs to be known at a very good level for backend developers ^_^ Especially if u a seeking middle and higher positions.

[fervent grove]

isnt there a package for sql in python?

[buoyant seal]

sure there are solutions to use sql in python via raw sql way
and via ORMs (using SQL via python classes/code without writing raw sql), Django ORM and SQLAlchemy are popular.

you need good fundamental knowledge in raw SQL before u can use ORMs appropriately though
plus ORMs add some additional problems that needs to be possible to debug and address

[fervent grove]

can u give some recommendation on basic one should know cause i had the exact situation i got asked if i can use SQL (which i had to deny)
tho when looking at it and trying it out it was pretty simple
so my question would be what exactly is needed

[buoyant seal]

Give me a time, i'll compile today resources list on this topic

[fervent grove]

im curious to see thanks in advance!

[light sequoia]

i study mysql for my php i finished it within 2 days i'm sure you are going to finish soon but be careful sql is not a joke it is used to hack using sql injection

[fervent grove]

!rule 9

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[vapid jay]

o i am sorry

[buoyant seal]

not interested in it, but just wishing to give advice regarding that.
Hopefully you realize that it is your own obligation to have a proper legal presence in order to setup payment systems at your online shop. / otherwise are you expecting developer to register yourself at banks instead of you? 😅
Also, rule 9 yeah.

[vapid jay]

i need someone to develop my website so

i only have the design of the website and i need a developer to develop it from scratch

[fervent grove]

there are websites for that but pls dont advertise it any further

[still condor]

The channel description literally says NOT FOR RECRUITMENT 😔
I wish discord allowed us to use bigger letters that are more bright. Or a pop-up

[fervent grove]

rainbow colour gif font lelele

[hearty island]

i signed myself up for a LinkedIn optimization session at my college

let's see what happens lmao i don't have high hopes for this at all

my college tends to be useless at career dev stuff

[light sequoia]

@fervent grove i made something in 15 min i want to know your opinion

send it is in pv please check

[obtuse crater]

Stop watching videos and start making projects

[fossil oar]

can someone hlep me

[hearty island]

what the fuck is alpha sights

[wanton birch]

It went well.

[fervent grove]

noice now u are rich

so dont forget me and give 5% share

[fervent grove]

honestly speaking looks not different from classic portfolio templates, more interesting would be actual code of urs
but please keep the convo in here (and not in DMs)

[fervent grove]

#❓｜how-to-get-help

[fossil oar]

i got it

[wanton birch]

Where do I keep so much money!

[buoyant seal]

NOT FOR RECRUITMENT

[light sequoia]

can you send your own to get new idea

[vapid jay]

Hey there! I am currently pursuing a degree in bioinformatics..I was looking for someone in the same field or in the data science domain in order to participate with..to solve an extremely challenging and interesting problem statement available on Kaggle..would love if anyone would want to collaborate..looking forward to the same!!! Do DM if u r an enthusiast too!

[fervent grove]

just go in #data-science-and-ml and maybe link the competition

[light sequoia]

@fervent grove lets make project together

Fantastic using three.js
Also I can make database I know backend but it is weak it is better you make

Right now I'm making portfolio after that lets make

[fervent grove]

why u dont ask @vapid jay he even asked

[light sequoia]

Data structure

[light sequoia]

Can you do he is data structure what about you you are just here it is better to gain experience

[pearl mango]

So our uni has a coding assessment partnered with another company to select capable students for the internship semester. The assessment is like Leetcode, but time-gated and you can't look up things. In your opinion, is that too much? Because researching is mandatory for programming and they basically cut off our lifelines.

[buoyant seal]

i kind of hate such stuff too.
Esentially leetcoding is trainable skill though.
So if desired, it can be passed in same way as any other student exam
(Prepare, pass, forget)

So yes, it is usually too much for regular hiring, but some companies have such inflow of people that it is the only possible method sometimes
It has the least time/money investment for company to make initial screening of you. Considering how interns are more of an investment, it is pretty understandable step on their part

[pastel thunder]

yeah some companies do ignore that. But then everyone would sit in those companies' assessments and competition goes up.
Off-campus market is very bad(i m experiencing it). Gpa is something that can help you get more interviews.

That being said. If your GPA is shit but other thing in your profile are exceptional, everyone would want hire you.

ALso, for India's Off campus, assume it will be very challenging to get interviews at top companies if
1-you are fresh grad.
2-poor gpa.
3.other stat are not exceptional.

[fringe sphinx]

I think the truth is: only a handful of students are ready to contribute as an intern. While I dislike the idea, it’s fair to the students who are actually ready.

[pearl mango]

I scored zero in that assessment. No research, no nothing. They said that they'll "help" with the CV application for anyone who scored over 50%. Though I know they might not mean it, I felt being slapped in the face.

[pastel thunder]

I dont wanna discourage you, if you "just" want a job, to get started, you most likely will get an offer. you will have to compromise a little, though.

[pearl mango]

And being shamed on with their mere sights on me.

[pastel thunder]

also, you can grind Leetcode. Its very likely that with 2000+ points even if you are sitting for few companies, you will be selected deserve to be selected.

[pastel thunder]

work hard -> apply to same company -> reject the manager in final interview round
😂

[fringe sphinx]

It’s unfortunate but to stand out, you basically have to learn everything on your own, separate from school. Projects, coding, continually learning, etc. it’s not enough to just graduate.

[pastel thunder]

as a backend dev with mechanical degree with 0 experience in web dev i still agree.

[light sequoia]

Hardness prepare ordinary person for extraordinary destiny

[wanton birch]

If I knew then what I know now, I’d have put more emphasis on what you just said from early on. Even as we speak, millions are getting into degree programs thinking this “qualification” means the same qualifications the employers look for. Like you pointed out, all it’d do is to make you look the same as millions of other graduates.

[fringe sphinx]

To be fair, I do regularly hire ‘normal’ graduates.

[wanton birch]

In fact, looking back at all my studies, the only things I still get to show and tell are the project works that were unique to me. They required a great deal of self study and teaching myself and they paid off a lot more in making me more capable than the regular courses.

[fringe sphinx]

And, I was an average graduate when I graduated.

[wanton birch]

Do you think there was any role of luck in your fate?

[fringe sphinx]

Yes. But, I love this quote: “chance favors only the prepared mind” - Louis Pasteur

Of course, John Wick says fortune favors the bold. So maybe some combination of the two?

[open cradle]

This is the perfect recipe for newbies to make combos like the one below because they only coded and never focused on learning the basics in a structured way 🙂

for i in range(len(my_obj)):
    print(my_obj[i])

[obtuse crater]

People depend more on watching videos than doing practice . Visual learning is bad science . Read , understand and implement . That’s the only way you gonna code and start building logics

[open cradle]

I agree. But the "read and understand" can also be replaced by watching a well structured video or course. So I do not see why "visual learning" is seen as a bad practice

[obtuse crater]

When you will see something you will be like , “ oh it’s easy ” but it’s not , the person doing it makes it look easy because he is probably professional or good in it . But when you will give up your laziness and start reading documents or books . You will find it tough comparing to watching videos/ courses . I know many people learn fast by watching but it’s not effective trust me . Start reading and you will get better understanding of things and doubts will arise in your mind about specific things & in video based learning that doubts might not arise .

And tbh if i have to start a new language , i will read some documentations about it & some Reddit or linked in stuff . After that basic understanding of syntax and then straight to code . Will start with basics & slowly will understand more .

[open cradle]

I prefer learning in all ways possible. I have learnt a lot with videos and courses, but also in forums, reading books (fluent python, high performance python...), reading websites like pythonspeed or PEPs, reading whole docs from libraries like pytest or type hints... And I still think that videos are a good way to learn that other alternatives do not offer in my opinion

[obtuse crater]

True , i won’t argue with that

[open cradle]

You are talking from the perspective of a person that already knows and is motivated. A learning methodology that keeps the person motivated is also a very important factor, specially for beginners

Oh sorry, just seen the message

[obtuse crater]

No worries , watch videos or read books but at the end of the day you have to do yourself . Just don’t be a script kiddie and start code .

Nice sharing thoughts with you @open cradle 😄

Good luck with everything & have a good day

[open cradle]

Thanks as well. Have a nice day you too! 😁

[queen thunder]

I am open to work now and I am a full stack developer.
Please DM me if you are finding someone for your project.
Thanks.

[true harness]

just ask here

[near ocean]

No niche is ever really searched for otherwise it wouldnt be a niche

[peak halo]

is your question really "what types of programmer are especially in demand right now?"?

[near ocean]

If youre starting out you shouldnt worry about specializing, learn as much about everything instead

[peak halo]

I think the supply of jobs in machine learning/AI is more subject to hype cycles than other career tracks for CS degree holders. it also requires you to have a significant amount of knowledge separate and apart from general programming knowledge.

I'm saying that the demand for AI developers is probably more volatile than web or backend system developers. So by the time you have enough education that you're eligible for employment in AI jobs, there might be even less room for entry-level people than there is currently.

[queen thunder]

Absolutely correct!

[peak halo]

btw, this is not allowed. you can't ask for work here.

[fringe sphinx]

Reminds me how everyone wanted to do robotics or gaming.

Actual ai and ml learning work is 90% data engineering. Pure roles will be few and far between. Lots of roles up and down the stack tho.

[peak halo]

sometimes I think we need to just banish the notion that "data scientist" and "data engineer" and "ML engineer" encapsulate cohesive sets of job responsibilities that people actually have in the real world.

[fringe sphinx]

It is a bit weird, companies are putting those titles out there because people want those titles, but the job ends up being just another backend role.

Where are you at/what do you know?

Oh, then begin at the beginning (and go on until the end, then stop… ). Start with learning programming, then the broader field of computer science, then worry about specialization

[smoky summit]

Does anyone has any ideas regarding TechDemocracy ?

[peak halo]

what is that?

[smoky summit]

Recruitment Company

[peak halo]

Is it the same concept as Revature? because I hate Revature.

[bright quartz]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1099252428110573601.gif?size=48&name=GIGAChad&quality=lossless

[smoky summit]

yeah kind off

[peak halo]

So, it exploits people who are desperate. Not a fan.

[smoky summit]

I hope they are not scamming me

[smoky summit]

not me as well

[spice forge]

Any tips on finding projects to help people with for some cash? I'm located in California. Options besides freelancing websites such as Fiverr/Freelancer.com please.

[peak halo]

If those platforms weren't working for you, I don't think there's another platform that will.

[spice forge]

I meant options besides freelancing platforms

[peak halo]

what did you agree to?

[smoky summit]

as of now none, but they have training in India and work in Canada

[smoky summit]

then contract jobs on LinkedIn may be next options

[delicate bane]

this is why i always recommend FoDE to anyone even remotely close to data

[wanton birch]

Obviously chance is useless if you aren't putting in the work to make something of it. I asked because I've come across many who don't seem to acknowledge that random chances, luck and things beyond their influence may have helped shaped their destiny.

[gilded valley]

complaining about it doesn't really help. Almost all companies that pay well require strong dsalg knowledge, this is widely known and accepted. You currently have poor dsalg knowledge, you need to either accept that you're not going to work for high paying companies, or put in the effort to learn it.

fair isn't really a helpful concept to work with until you're the hiring manager.

[gilded valley]

any shame is self inflicted. you are bad at the thing that they hire for, do you feel ashamed that you're not a great singer, dancer, or carpenter?

[light sequoia]

yeah no pain no gain you are right you have to try amek your expectation low

[proven crest]

Question for mid/senior level devs here. Do you ever have days where you just can't get into the code if you know what I mean? Like where you can't fall into that deep focus? I'm not sure if I'm explaining that right, but its something I noticed that happens to me for a day every couple of weeks. Is it just part of life or is it something a junior will grow out of?

[fervent grove]

i guess thats just normal take a walk and should be fine afterwards or do management things

[tropic cargo]

Hey everyone, I'm new here, and I'd love to get your opinions on something. I'm currently a MERN stack developer, but I'm considering switching to Python. I've heard that Python has a lot of benefits and potential for the future. So, I wanted to ask all of you, who have more experience in Python, if you think it's worth it to learn and invest my time in it?

If I decide to go for Python, I'm curious about which fields or areas I should consider after learning it. Any suggestions or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks a lot!

[true harness]

I would say to do the research about what fields commonly use python before learning it

[peak halo]

If you're employed doing web development with the MERN stack, you might one day find yourself doing back end development with django (which is a Python framework).

If you feel like learning another language for the sake of learning one, Python would be a good choice, since it has broad applicability. But learning Python in itself doesn't really unlock certain types of opportunities.

[tropic cargo]

i just want to leave that stack and want to move on with python thats what i want Thanks for your Opinion

[peak halo]

then the most straightforward way to do that would be to gain marketable experience with django, but I'm not sure how to do that.

[tropic cargo]

i see

[buoyant seal]

Very often

I just try to listen music and to catch a wave eventually during a day

Flexible remote working schedule

[fringe sphinx]

For a moment, I thought you meant literally going surfing (catch a wave). Lol. Yah, agree… and collaboration helps, my motivation comes from my customers and coworkers, it’s easy to lose motivation when working in isolation.

[near ocean]

My motivation comes from my manager telling me it needs to go out yesterday

[hearty island]

my internship ends august 11th :)))

[hearty island]

and my next one starts september 5th iirc

hopefully by january i have another offer

[buoyant seal]

Btw, the great and famous Robert Martin, whose books are pretty much must have to read for a lot of books 😅
Covered ethics, finding energy, communicating with colleagues and etc in one of his books too

[hearty island]

oooooooh, PwC hiring for project manager interns? where the fuck was this last summer?

i would've gladly put that on my resume lmaooo

[novel portal]

Where do you guys find internships at? I'm struggling to get started on the work experience portion. (Python ~6 years), 1 year left on Bachelors

[true harness]

linkedin, indeed

[novel portal]

I've browsed a bit of indeed but not many remote options - and unfortunately, I live in the boonies lol

[unreal turtle]

on linkedin what does it mean if google cloud invited me to subscribe to a newsletter?

[split summit]

bro is programming good?

[novel portal]

What's not to love?

[unreal turtle]

me?

[lapis wind]

Normally it's a linkedin sponored thing, which is basically a feature some companies pay linked to effectively ads/increase brand awareness for some perticular thing, whether it be recruiting, newsletters, conferences, etc...

[delicate bane]

gotta get that extra ad revenue somewhere

[hearty island]

damnit. they removed the job posting of project manager from renaissance tech 😦. not like i was going to get it anyways

[neon pine]

Yes, I have that and funny enough, for me it is when I had slept to much 😄

[summer roost]

yes

[mint thorn]

Hi i when i installed python on my pc it took with it 18gb of storage and i don't know why can anyone tell me how to get those 18gb

[smoky quest]

hi!
You should check #❓｜how-to-get-help . You are asking in the wrong place

[hearty island]

nope

nope, they told me to apply closer to my graduation date

[uncut nexus]

Y'all getting internship?

[smoky quest]

why not?

[uncut nexus]

Idk man.... I am not 🥲, i don't know if its my resume, or what.... I get rejected left and right 😭

[smoky quest]

tbh, it's not the season yet. It's not even August yet

[uncut nexus]

What would be the "correct" season 🤔?

[smoky quest]

it's gonna pick up again in september

[uncut nexus]

Ohh so i guess i should keep applying...

[gloomy slate]

Siiu

[smoky quest]

hi!
You should check #❓｜how-to-get-help . You are asking in the wrong place

[gloomy slate]

What is a full stack developer

Reply

[vapid jay]

Have you tried asking them why they don't choose to go with you?

[buoyant seal]

• A jack off all trades.
• Usually it is frontend developer which learned some measure of backend development
• More rare Pokemon: Backend developer which learned frontend development and willing to do both
• p.s. last years it is asked to squeeze into it DevOps engineering too if possible

[fervent grove]

companies: we want u to do three jobs and pay u one

[wanton birch]

Anyone around for some help? Need to know if this description of a project in my resume seems okay

[wanton birch]

Lol. Reminds me of this one company where they wanted the guy writing software for their machine to do the UI design, PCB design, web design, running the production place and handle the clients. They also expected the person to be good with all sorts of tools to fix broken things there. lmao

[dapper bane]

is freelancing a good idea ?

[fervent grove]

depends on ur work/life balance id say can be pretty good can be pretty hard, if u already got big clients prob. a good idea

[dapper bane]

what do people freelance in python ?

[fervent grove]

so u mainly do python? can u be more precise?

[dapper bane]

I know react and react native

I am thinking betwen Express or Django right now

what do ya think ?

[fervent grove]

so ur client base would be private persons and smaller businesses
u can start to offer ur skills on dedicated websites but those arent "big" sellingpoints

[dapper bane]

is there automation jobs with selenium ?

[fervent grove]

chatgpt got one covered i see no need to hire someone for such tasks
as mentioned those arent sellingpoints (atleast in my opinion)
~dont believe everything u see on TikTok YT~

[dapper bane]

i dont have any idea what to do

[fervent grove]

why u dont want to be employed?

[dapper bane]

I am applying

[fervent grove]

id suggest keep on doing so

[dapper bane]

the projects that I have are in react and react native using a little bit of express , mongod and socket stuff

[dapper bane]

so I cant try freelancing ?

[wanton birch]

Always feel amazing to get a customized response on this level:

[fervent grove]

everytime i get a personal reply im feeling flattered and special xoxo

[wanton birch]

Try it out as you wait for the job applications to respond back. DO NOT waste time. You will regret not being productive later.

[vapid jay]

where is the right one

[fervent grove]

so hows ur CV working out?

[wanton birch]

Fixed it.

[fervent grove]

show me wanna learn from big bro

[wanton birch]

Learn from those who managed to secure jobs!

[fervent grove]

ull get ur last one!

[open cradle]

Can somebody recommend a good resource that teaches you how to have a cool welcome github page? Like, the main one you see when you open someone's github profile. I want to have a good one for the companies or something

[true harness]

just ask

[weak yacht]

whats up guys 🤙 I need a job

[true harness]

so, what are you going to do about it?

[weak yacht]

What can I do?

[true harness]

apply to jobs

[weak yacht]

Who's gonna accept someone without a degree? I need a remote job

[true harness]

well, then are you in education?

[weak yacht]

Yes, I will be soon. But I need a job now.

I need to make enough to pay tuition for my degree 😵‍💫

So where can I find a good paying remote job that doesn't require a degree?

[true harness]

i don't think that exists. internships might, but i'm not sure why you need a remote job

[weak yacht]

How else can I make money using python, that doesn't require a job?

[weak yacht]

I need a remote job because I have to study something else in the mean time. And remote jobs are time efficient

[true harness]

remote software dev jobs for someone not in a degree program yet don't really exist. you're probably better off getting a local, part time job flipping burgers, then try to get an internship

[weak yacht]

any other way you can use python to make money other than a standard job?

[fringe sphinx]

indie game dev? (I'm agreeing... "how do I make money without a job" seems like a tough goal)

[true harness]

freelancing exists, but it would also be difficult without credentials

[weak yacht]

bro, I dont want to feed into the beast system

[fringe sphinx]

the system doesn't care what you want 😉

[weak yacht]

But, I have morals. I want to make money in a way that does not contribute in destroying the world

[gilded valley]

it's about as likely to succeed as YouTubing or streaming

[fringe sphinx]

You don't sound really serious here.

[gilded valley]

what do you do day to day? I'm guessing normally school, but your on summer holidays at the moment?

oh no, you say you're doing a degree

[weak yacht]

No, I'm serious man, I want to do good in society.

[fringe sphinx]

You have a lot of requirements: "do good", "don't have a job", "get paid", etc... what do you actually want to do?

[gilded valley]

but only if you earn money doing it.

you don't want to volunteer, and you don't want to do manual labour.

[weak yacht]

No, I am in the process of applying to college. But I need money in the meantime.

[gilded valley]

how old are you? what country are you in?

[wanton birch]

It was time sensitive so didn’t bother

[weak yacht]

I want to get $$$

[true harness]

that doesn't really change whether you should have just asked, tbh

[weak yacht]

18. Dubai

[fringe sphinx]

I wish economics was taught earlier in school.

[gilded valley]

you want to get money and do good - but also think most jobs do harm?

[wanton birch]

Yeah. Well! At the time I wanted to check if a good number of people were there for the input or not. If not, not going to bother posting all the details.

[weak yacht]

not most jobs. Only video game development. Or other stuff that promotes degeneracy.

[wanton birch]

My schooling left it out entirely

[gilded valley]

what economic concept is being missed here?

this is just overtly inconsistent stuff regardless of economics

[true harness]

sure ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[fringe sphinx]

supply and demand.

[gilded valley]

what do you consider to be degeneracy?

[weak yacht]

economy? That's a psuedoscience

[fringe sphinx]

Ok, i'm out, troll.

[wanton birch]

They aren’t entirely to blame with corporate and government propaganda misleading generations with BS claims about skills shortage.

[gilded valley]

it's not a lack of knowledge. it's a refusal to live in the real world

[wanton birch]

I mean if Python is a programming language then what’s wrong with pseudoscience.

[weak yacht]

Like video games, and pornography

[gilded valley]

what lgbt stuff? would you work for companies that are supportive of gay people?

[weak yacht]

What has one have to do with the other?

[true harness]

wait what?

[wanton birch]

You use Python, right?

[weak yacht]

No, that's okay. But if they make it mandatory for me to wear a pride ribbon or something during work. Then I'll quit immediately. That's a humiliation ritual.

[wanton birch]

Someone’s hiding something, aren’t they? 😌

[weak yacht]

Yup, I know python and C. But I haven't made a cent out of this knowledge 😢

[wanton birch]

And you think Python is a real programming language too. Right?

[weak yacht]

It's a scripting language.

[weak yacht]

What am I hiding?

[glad ingot]

snake charming

[weak yacht]

😐 I don't want to channel satanic energy

[wanton birch]

In all seriousness, if you are in the process of applying for college but need money, do what everybody else does. Try to hunt yourself some job. Once you have the credentials, your chances of getting the jobs you prefer will go up.

[weak yacht]

Thanks bro. But how can I get the credentials if I don't have a degree rn?

[open cradle]

I did not know such a thing was mandatory

[wanton birch]

By applying for jobs, I was talking about jobs that fit your educational and experience/skill background.

[near ocean]

You could ask in #community-meta what kind of hours this channel gets most traffic and wait, i think i asked this before

But most people here, staffers and not seem to be american

[wanton birch]

Yeah. Well! I’m on the other side of the globe right now. So kinda moved out of synch by a huge margin with the usual crowd.

[keen fractal]

Hey so im doing computer science for uni and been having doubts since its pretty exopensive and if its even worth it cause of chat gpt
And that the teach industry is shit rn

[peak halo]

ChatGPT isn't capable enough to eliminate developers, and it's unlikely that it will become that capable soon enough for it to affect your career prospects.

even if we assume that it will eliminate junior positions in 10 years (and I'm not saying that it will), that's still far enough out for you to get a foothold in industry.

[gilded valley]

what country are you in?

[keen fractal]

Does it matter?

[gilded valley]

yes

[keen fractal]

UAE

[keen fractal]

Thats what they all say but with how fast its evolving im really not sure

[wanton birch]

One positive way to look at this is that now you have a much stronger incentive to learn and understand how these systems work. If systems like GPT or other stuff are going to be used more and more, there is going to be a need for people to look after and help develop them. The more technical knowledge and expertise you have, the better placed you'll be to be employed in those future jobs. And as these things encourage more development of further AI and perhaps robotics, I only see the demand going up for engineers and developers.

[keen fractal]

I see

[peak halo]

I work in language technology.

[wanton birch]

There is also another thing you have to factor in even when it comes to juniors being replaced by AI. When the current intermediate folks become senior and such, where will you get your intermediate developers if you stop hiring and training juniors altogether?

[peak halo]

technologies like ChatGPT are based on a leap that happened in 2017. We might be able to achieve a lot more in light of it. Or we might be approaching the limit of what we can do before another leap occurs. And there's no way of knowing when that will be.

[wanton birch]

What I see happening instead is that the expectation from these developers will go up since they have assistance now.

[peak halo]

I think this is more likely--the same (or greater) number of developers, working more efficiently.

Let's also assume that ChatGPT will create a downward pressure on the demand for developers. But it's not the consideration. There can still be other things creating upward pressure.

[keen fractal]

I see
Thx for the help I feel more confident now.

[hearty island]

https://grow.google/certificates/interview-warmup/category/ good site to practice interviews (for free)

[true harness]

<@&831776746206265384> sending the channel name in all the channels ? ^

[tall sand]

How worth it is getting a pcap?

[true harness]

what's that

[analog stirrup]

I was looking at pcap too, but I don't think that an employer would be impressed by a certification which has an online exam.

[tall sand]

https://www.pythoninstitute.org/pcap

[analog stirrup]

I think that it is not worth the money and you can make just as good of an impression by just learning and doing all the courses without taking the exam

[tall sand]

I kinda feel like I could get it, but I dunno if it’s worth it

Honestly, it’s only $60, which is way cheaper than other certs

[analog stirrup]

Yes, because it is online

But that is also the bad part, because a future employer won't trust a certification you have taken online

[analog stirrup]

the pcep is 60, the pcap is 300 and the pcpp is 200

[tall sand]

Can’t you get like a comptia or network+ online?

[tall sand]

My bad, I meant pcep

[summer roost]

Assuming you're trying to get hired as a software engineer, it's virtually worthless. Employers don't care about certs, generally speaking.

[analog stirrup]

pcep is not that hard, I am in the middle of the second module. But you can prove a lot more to your future employer by having a couple projects in python in your file than showing him a $60 online certification

[analog stirrup]

+1

[tall sand]

I also keep getting told that they don’t care about college degrees much either. So is it all experience and portfolio?

[fringe sphinx]

Who's telling you that?

[summer roost]

for entry level jobs, they definitely do care about college degrees. Degrees become less important as you gain more experience, but they're very, very helpful for getting your first industry job

[tall sand]

A few relatives and other people in the it space

[fringe sphinx]

If we're talking about software engineering positions, I feel confident in saying: that's not true: degrees matter.

(see @summer roost 's point above)

[analog stirrup]

The way I see it, there are people that are passionate about programming and have learned a lot more at home than in college. But you need a lot of passion and discipline to make yourself learn as much as in a college

[summer roost]

"discipline" is the hard part there. Very few people can effectively self-teach things that don't interest them, and college courses will cover things that don't interest you but are important.

also, there's a lot of stuff that you'd get from college beyond the classes. It forms the start of your first professional network, exposes you to experts, gives you opportunities for internships, teachers assistantships, research assistantships, etc

[analog stirrup]

Do you know any certifications in programming that are valuable and widely known? I want to learn something this summer

[tall sand]

Makes sense, is there anything I can do to check how much of python I comprehend?

[fringe sphinx]

When is your summer?

[analog stirrup]

now

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, so in the next month? I know of no certifications, but if you want to learn stuff, there's plenty we could recommend. Maybe just tell us what you knwo/where you're at first / what you're interested in.

[summer roost]

https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2022#education-ed-level-prof - 79% of professional developers have a degree of some sort, and an additional 12% at least started a degree. Fewer than 10% of professional software devs got where they are without ever taking a college course.

[summer roost]

what sort of job are you trying to get?

[tall sand]

^

[summer roost]

I don't have an answer for that. I don't think it's quantifiable. Maybe try reading through some large library like httpx and see how much of it you do or don't understand

[analog stirrup]

I know a lot of C++ from highschool and some python from building game bots. I have an ECDL certification in office. I wish for a certification though to help me set a goal in my mind. I was looking at CCNA, but it is too hard for now, then at PCPP but I won't pay 200 dollars for an online certification, because it is too easy to cheat and as an employer I wouldn't think that certification proves anything. I am entering in a faculty of Automatic Control and Computer Science and I want to learn anything that I can't in college.

[fringe sphinx]

I think the common wisdom is: don't worry about certificates, worry about learning. And, there's no one way to learn, as long as you're writing code & challenging yourself. So, if you want to be a good programmer, invest time in good projects that force you to do something new.

!resources has some tutorials, if you want to reinforce the fundamentals.

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[fringe sphinx]

!kindling has some project ideas.

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[fringe sphinx]

If you want to get a job as a programmer, you'll want to have completed some good projects that you can list on your resume.

[analog stirrup]

The project part is waht i don't understand. What kind of project should I do to prove myself? My current projects are very childish, multiple python game bots, a codeline german learning c++ tool and a specialized html and javascript calculator for my workplace

[uncut nexus]

Green projects in the field you wanna go

That is you start a project from scratch, maintain a good dev cycle, build all parts of it

[analog stirrup]

What do you mean by green projects?

[uncut nexus]

That is where you don't follow a tutorial or build off of an already existing project

[fringe sphinx]

It's more important that it's something that interests you... you're early in your journey, no matter what you do, you're going to learn. It's like a someone stepping foot in a gym for the first time: lifting any weight is going to make them stronger.

[uncut nexus]

Like i made a full stack app where people can share their custom game modes

I did all parts of the project myself,
The frontend
The backend
The devops

It will take time, and it should, as you will learn so much from it

[fringe sphinx]

Out of curiosity, why did you chose this project?

[uncut nexus]

Ohh so back when battlefield 2042 came out it had a game mode in it called "portal", in which players could make custom game modes and share the game mode with an "experience code", now the devs didn't provide any way to search/find game modes by default, so i made a website (https://bfportal.gg), where any player can post their experience codes and people can browse through

sc at https://gh.bfportal.gg

[fringe sphinx]

cool

[open cradle]

This reminded me of that trend where CEOs from big companies like Tesla were saying that degrees are or will be no longer important. Then, you enter at the portal job and 99% require a degree or even a masters

I do not know why they do it

I guess to appear more modern and disruptive

[dense mesa]

Optics and yeah appearing more modern as you said

[vapid jay]

really depends on the job and company. I would say it relies more on portfolios. if you can show them you can do the job, not every company cares, or if it's entry-level job they might understand.

[uncut nexus]

Also luck plays a big factor here .....

If you have network its easier

[summer roost]

entry-level jobs are much more likely to require a degree than jobs for experienced hires

[vapid jay]

not in my experience, but im sure its like that to

[summer roost]

interesting - what experience is that? Do you do hiring for both entry-level and senior level engineers?

[uncut nexus]

I am a student, and from my experience except for freelancing there are only very few jobs that don't require a degree,

[open cradle]

I agree. If it has the minimum amount of maths, a degree is something almost requirement in the job application

Friends I have who do not have a degree, they did like an apprenticeship of 2 years. These are mainly app developers, network related stuff or java analyst (no idea what's this), where maths are almost nonexistent

[fervent grove]

y=mx+b 🗿

[open cradle]

Not even that. And it is cool that people who do not enjoy maths can also participate. But people who are seeking to develop their careers must be really aware of the fields they want to work in

[fervent grove]

until they reach management

[summer roost]

management is just an entirely separate path, requiring different skills

[fervent grove]

as for my experience after certain time one gets asked to go more into project management and if successful enough into management

[summer roost]

companies with good engineering cultures have promotion paths for senior engineers without forcing them into managerial roles. The skills that make someone a good engineer aren't the skills that are most useful for managers

[fervent grove]

for my knowledge they will reach a ceiling which they can only overcome when committing into management but im biased and dont got much experience to say

[summer roost]

that would say negative things about the engineering culture at that company. tech companies usually have parallel tracks for senior engineers that would lead to either people management or deeper technical ownership. Things like pricipal or staff engineer roles on parallel with manager roles

[fervent grove]

i mean they got project ownership but isnt that a normal thing?

still a "fact" that management earns ~20% more id say

but would be cool to witness ur statements proof true in next company

[zenith geyser]

i was wondering do senior engineers and developers have significantly more "technical prowess" than junior developers or are they being paid for the experience and be able to execute properly?

[summer roost]

that's not generally true. I'm quite certain I make more than my team lead.

[fervent grove]

probs! 😄

[fervent grove]

depends on the person id say in general they can negotiate better due to experience

[summer roost]

a little of column A and a little of column B. Honestly, these things are all intertwined: their experience makes them more likely to be able to execute properly because of the extra technical prowess they've acquired over the years.

[fervent grove]

juniors can bring new things to the table aswell so i wouldnt fully agree

[open cradle]

Slavery

[summer roost]

you don't agree with what?

[summer roost]

what?

[fervent grove]

i agreed with u

[summer roost]

I'm not sure I follow what you're saying. Yes, juniors have advantages that seniors don't have (fresh eyes, a chance to bring in new tools and technologies, etc). Seniors have advantages that juniors don't have as well (the experience of having seen a great many systems and learned what things work and what things don't)

[fervent grove]

100%

[dense mesa]

Cuz it's a financial institution maybe

[summer roost]

right. It probably tells you a fair amount about what the role would be. If they didn't think those skills would be relevant to the role, they wouldn't be asking those questions

[fervent grove]

sometimes it seems HR just uses buzzwords to use buzzwords

[summer roost]

how so?

[summer roost]

HR doesn't write job descriptions - at least, not at any company I've worked for

[fervent grove]

Hiring Manager does and they dont always know what they looking for lel

[true harness]

i have seen some job descriptions that were obviously pulled from some email of a list of requirements, though...

[summer roost]

how would they not know what they're looking for? It's for a role on their team, wouldn't they know what skills the role will use, and which skills would make someone more likely to succeed at it?

[fervent grove]

if they got 0% knowledge in the field they search for?

[summer roost]

how could that possibly happen? They manage people who work in that field

[fervent grove]

up the ladder lol
dunno but i stumbled across more than one such job offer

[summer roost]

they're not usually far "up the ladder" from the ICs doing the work. Hiring managers are likely to be 1, maybe 2 levels up from ICs.

for the intern position, possibly not, but the reason to have intern positions is to improve your pipeline for hiring junior engineers, and presumably they think those junior engineers would perform roles where the theory would be helpful to them

[fervent grove]

or they need fresh ppl to burn out 🔥

[summer roost]

how do you mean? internships seem orthogonal to burn out to me, since interns are necessarily time-limited

burn out is something that tends to take a lot longer than 12 weeks...

[fervent grove]

depends on applied force 🗿

[summer roost]

I'm not really sure what you mean by that, honestly. Interns don't tend to have "force" applied at all.

[fervent grove]

as one former "mentor" of mine always said:
pressure forms diamonds lol

[true harness]

it also causes people to not work at your company 🤔

[fervent grove]

wasnt a company tho

[summer roost]

it's nearly impossible to get fired from an internship, interns don't have pressure to deliver, interns aren't responsible for on-call schedules or fixing production problems, interns don't generally deal with maintenance, etc

[fervent grove]

my company experience was superior compered to my academic one

[summer roost]

I guess I don't follow what you're trying to say at all. If an intern manages to burn out in 12 weeks of doing the lowest pressure parts of the job, I have trouble imagining how they could ever succeed at a full time role

[true harness]

did you finish your internship
1 wk left

[fervent grove]

some do internships for thesis (5-8months)

[summer roost]

hm. I've never heard of that, but ok

that seems like a very different thing from a typical undergrand internship, though, which is what I thought we were talking about

[fervent grove]

my bad then sorry

would be a more suitable name

[summer roost]

I did co-ops as a university student, and did not find them to be more challenging/involved than the sorts of projects interns are typically given

they're longer, which gives a chance to work on more tasks, but the complexity of tasks and the level of ownership is no higher

[fervent grove]

i did so too and had full ownership of my project even marketing lelele

big one (wont do namedropping)

[gilded valley]

There's interns at my company working 65hr weeks. It's serving them well

[summer roost]

How so?

[uncut nexus]

65 hrs a week ☠️

[gilded valley]

there's multiple people who interacted with them only slightly in terms of their actual work - but who will be asked to give some small feedback on them - who have seen them in the office late and recognised their work ethic. They've already achieved a reputation for being able to work hard.

If their work is either shit or really good, then this reputational type stuff won't matter, but if their work is borderline, the reputation will push them over the edge into getting an offer. Or if they want to join another team than the one they interned in, it will be very valuable'

[summer roost]

It's only "serving them well" if they choose to take a full time position with your company in the future, and I guess I'm confused why someone would want to join a company where 65 hour weeks are rewarded. "Do a lot of work for free" isn't much of a selling point, IMHO

[gilded valley]

they would choose to join for money and prestige reasons

[summer roost]

unless the money is >50% higher than what comparable companies would pay, they'd be getting less money for the time they spend working

and "prestige" always confuses me. Why is it more prestigious to work for companies that take advantage of their employees? 🤷‍♂️

[gilded valley]

comparable roles at comparable companies are the same.

this isn't generic SDE roles

[summer roost]

then perhaps they should look for generic SDE roles, instead of places that abuse their employees 🤷‍♂️

[gilded valley]

this isn't close to abuse.

The company wants to hire very exceptional people, to work in the kinds of roles they're aspiring to, you need to be genuinely exceptional (or very lucky as in my case). The majority of the interns here are either not aspiring for the top roles, think they are exceptional enough without the work ethic, or just not cut out for this industry and so are working typical 40hr weeks.

Those going the extra mile and putting in the hours recognise the kind of company it is, recognise the rewards that are on offer, and choose to try and grab them.

There are very few roles where it is totally feasible to earn enough money to retire by 30. These interns are aiming at that goal - and will almost certainly miss - but they recognise what is required

it would be abuse if the interns weren't choosing it, it would be abuse if it was being forced on them, it would be abuse if their managers were screaming in their faces. But none of that is the case

[summer roost]

well, I disagree. I think even allowing people to work 65 hour weeks is abusive.

[uncut nexus]

Seems like a carrot scam to me

[fringe sphinx]

I guess I'm unsure where I sit here. 65 hour weeks tends to be performative. I remember consulting at a big company in NYC with an open floor plan where nobody left until the boss left.

[uncut nexus]

I like how they all will work overtime, get no extra pay, then be out of the company 🤣

[uncut nexus]

This is for an intern role

[fringe sphinx]

On the other hand, there is a big noticible difference between people who are passionate and engaged, and I was that type (especially at that age) to want to get involved in everything I could.

[near ocean]

the interns in a startup I worked at used to do this, which was funny because they did absolutely nothing of value and they had gotten in via nepotism

[fringe sphinx]

I was just visiting a company this week. They had a few young interns more or less stuck in a closet... they looked miserable: they wanted to be more engaged.

[near ocean]

i guess it was all for appearances

[open cradle]

Just a joke 🙂

[uncut nexus]

Still 11 hrs a day?

[open cradle]

I did not understand anything with so many acronyms, english is not my main language sorry

[fringe sphinx]

I mean, I think they'd happily stick around if they felt they were being useful.

[summer roost]

65 hours a week is 13 hours a day, FWIW.

[gilded valley]

I think it's almost certainly performative. the interns don't have any real work to be doing, it's standard intern bullshit, but they recognise the game

[uncut nexus]

6 day week sir
My bad

[gilded valley]

I'm practice it's 5 12s and a 5, but yes. horrifying hours. I can't do it.

[fringe sphinx]

oh, that's a very interesting point too... they're, at minimum, observant and not "omg I need to go wash my dog"

[summer roost]

6 day workweeks are also abusive, I'd say. 🙂

[uncut nexus]

This is worse than 996 lol

Even china says 996 is illegal

[gilded valley]

it's self imposed. they are aiming high. I don't think it's abusive to let them aim

[fringe sphinx]

I guess we can at least agree there's a spectrum. On one end, way too much and unhealthy... and I think I'd agree with GG: shame on management for allow such performative acts.

[uncut nexus]

Aim ? Is it secured? No ...
And why? U can get same kind of pay at a better environment

[open cradle]

In case I understood well, if you are applying to a 1) Software Engineering job and 2) about a financial based company, it is more than obvious they will ask you for maths. You cannot apply to an engineering based role expecting that there will be no maths

[fringe sphinx]

But, on the other hand, there's those who don't want to play the game at all

[summer roost]

well, I do.

[near ocean]

what are they doing working 12h a day* if theyre interns and dont have any real work

[uncut nexus]

Mee too +1

[fringe sphinx]

I remember some european laws prohibiting this stuff, maybe france? Something about not emailing after work hours.

[gilded valley]

you're trying to find the top 1% most driven people. If they land the jobs they want to, those are the hours they will end up working

[uncut nexus]

Old man coming in with a hell of a question

[summer roost]

that's the hours they'll be expected to work. So, yeah - rewarding interns for this is just a way of finding FTEs you can abuse.

[gilded valley]

fuck knows. for all I know it's just messing about with chatgpt

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I agree and I'm somewhat conflicted. We can argue the specifics (how much is too much and perhaps is counter-productive), but I get the point and have recognized it before.

[near ocean]

idk if i'd like some random tween all up in my business just cause they wanna do busywork

[summer roost]

there are European countries with 35 hour work weeks, in fact.

[fringe sphinx]

It'll be hilarious if you find out they're playing CoD from 4pm to 8pm

[uncut nexus]

Also their health will plummet to the bottom

[open cradle]

In Switzwrland you can negotiate a 100% or 80% job. Being 100% 40h

[fringe sphinx]

oh, this: https://www.theguardian.com/money/shortcuts/2014/apr/09/french-6pm-labour-agreement-work-emails-out-of-office "A new labour agreement in France means that employees must ignore their bosses' work emails once they are out of the office and relaxing at home"

[gilded valley]

I doubt there's any without opt-outs. the UK working hours directive let's employees opt out

[open cradle]

I do not really trust these measures tho. But something is something

[summer roost]

I'd be surprised if that's true, but I'm not positive. Human rights laws don't generally allow people to voluntarily waive those rights, though. That is: they're generally an obligation on the part of employers. Like, employees can't opt out of minimum wage, for instance.

[uncut nexus]

What i don't understand why join such a company.... Is the pay really that much that you are willing to fuck up your mental and physical health 🤔

Maybe people are in a pickle

[gilded valley]

you might be right. I know the UK has an opt out, I'd guess that is anywhere has no opt out, it's Germany

[uncut nexus]

Doesn't Germany have a no noise after 4 law 🤔 or something

[near ocean]

having worked a mere 45h work week, the hardest part was appearing to be busy
i could do work for longer but looking over my shoulder when I didnt have work to do was draining

[open cradle]

I dont think so

If so, it is usually at 10pm

[fringe sphinx]

man, I was always more productive 3pm+. I'd get nothing done except chat with people earlier in the day. I ended up working crazy hours, but mostly because of my lack of morning productivity.

[summer roost]

same

[gilded valley]

I find I'm most productive either early or late. Middle of the day always feels like I'm getting nowhere

[near ocean]

I would do that at my current job til i got told by my manager for working outside of contracted hours

[spark cobalt]

My intern had to leave, unfortunate.

We got him through like some unfortunate kids program (so this internship was basically charity hire). And well, he ran through serious unfortunate issues and had to leave.

A lot of things...

Dad went to jail. He had to bail him out.
Mom got evicted.
He got into fight with roommates that put him in hospital and he needed to get surgery because of it.
COVID.
etc.

[uncut nexus]

oof 😣

[spark cobalt]

At first I was super suspicious cuz it was like one thing after another. But we got it confirmed from the organization that was running this internship so now it's like rip...

Anywho, finally taking some PTO in 2 weeks

It's just really sad. I invested so much time into him...

[fringe sphinx]

Wow. I've had some bad interns/entries but wow.

Aye, as are many folks on this channel

[spark cobalt]

It wasn't like he was bad, he was okay I'd say. I mean he's only a freshman I can't expect too much. Just it's super hard to assess how good he is when they literally are only able to work like 10 hours a week cuz of these circumstances.

I will say though, he was kind of unprofessional about it. He never told me or anyone on the team anything until we had to ask HR to handle this. And even after he left, he said nothing to us 💀

[uncut nexus]

I won't blame him tho 🤔

[spark cobalt]

It takes 2 minutes to inform people of why he's been missing for 2 weeks and not responding calls/messages.

[uncut nexus]

Ohh that bad 🥲

[spark cobalt]

Sure he's in a bad situation, but there is a degree of neglect that happened

I invested like 20 hours into him probably accumatively. And I got nothing when he left. No thanks, no nothing

Aren't you the finance guy. I forgot all the terminology

Like the Amazon intern that wants to go for those big firms or whatever

[uncut nexus]

But man if someone got an remote internship let me know pls 🥲

[spark cobalt]

There's a 3 letter acronym of what you are but If rogot what it is

[spark cobalt]

We only do in person (for internships)

Nice 🔥

[uncut nexus]

Location?

[spark cobalt]

Bangalore or San Jose

[uncut nexus]

Yo im in india

[summer roost]

remote internships are rare. It's harder to mentor a remote employee, and it's less likely a remote intern would go on to become a full time employee

[spark cobalt]

I think that one of the potential mistakes I did with this guy was being brutally honest. Tbh we we're kind of the same age (he's two years older than me) so I kind of just treated him almost as equal and called him out for all the bullshit he does (in private of course, not in front of other people.) And I'm unsure if this was the right way to approach things.

[uncut nexus]

I am very much so... But i never hear back from them....

Idk, i want something with backend, but not a lot of job for it atm

[spark cobalt]

Something he's said a lot was "I made a lot of progress" everyday when I ask him for what he's done. But that progress has never been measurable or quantifiable. I don't know how I should've approached this other than getting into a call and saying that you need to highlight what progress you made otherwise what you're saying is just bullshitting the team.

He's like politicians. Nice with words, god knows wtf they're doing.

[uncut nexus]

Its a tier 3 college, so we get mass recruiters most of the time, if there is a better company they pick of students with highest cgpa

[uncut nexus]

Are there any intern position open ? I can move to banglore easy

[spark cobalt]

Intern season over.

[summer roost]

when someone says that they're being brutally honest, it usually means that they're being tactless. Especially in the context of work, I'd expect that brutal honesty is a bad way of giving feedback that makes it less likely the recipient will have the right takeaways.

[uncut nexus]

How come 🤔?

Any sde 1 role ?

[spark cobalt]

I was definitely being tactless. I've asked many times nicely without being a bitch with no sense of improvement on his side.

[uncut nexus]

As its my final year

[spark cobalt]

I can understand if he's getting into problems outside of work and that's hindering his capability to work and he was made aware of that. But when no one gets anything on any aspect of what's going on, even when asked, it just becomes like

To me, it really felt like he was hard neglecting us. Granted, he ran into a lot of irl issues, but he refused to communicate that to us.

[summer roost]

sure, I get the frustration, but "brutal honesty" seems unlikely to help. Diplomacy and empathy go a long way.

[uncut nexus]

Now now its not like i have no experience.... I do freelancing

Also have good project under my belt (i hope so 🥲)

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I feel you Wilder... I've been in that place a lot. gg is right, although I haven't always channeled the diplomatic approach.

[spark cobalt]

Yeah definitely. Just when empathy doesn't work, I feel like I'm being used/abused.

[uncut nexus]

Should i just share my resume 🤔

[fringe sphinx]

There's a long debate over the most effective strategy: hire slow/fire slow, vs hire fast/fire slow vs hire slow, fire fast, vs hire fast/fire fast.

[spark cobalt]

I've had to work hella overtime for first few weeks of his internship to really help compensate and teach them on various different things, tried being really compensating for what he's lacking and helping him build that up.

When he got COVID, I was really supportive. Really tried to make sure he was okay and made sure that he knew he wasn't obligated to do anything if he was feeling unwell.

Just like how much do I need to do

He worked silly hours too and I was having calls at 9 PM with him

[fringe sphinx]

Want my horror story? Hired a kid, on a personal reference. Turned out he was hooked on H and nobody told me. That didn't last long.

Smart kid too, I genuinely tried, but he just stopped showing up.

[uncut nexus]

Now not the latest one (I've updated the description of each job)

[spark cobalt]

I really wanted this guy to have like the best internship opportunity possible, given his situation and everything. He only had 10 weeks and he pretty much was starting from nothing.

[spark cobalt]

Needed huge rampup before he could take on some responsibility

[fringe sphinx]

fwiw, I can't believe you haven't landed something, that's still a great resume.

[uncut nexus]

Idk whats the issue 😭

[spark cobalt]

Yeah I'm kind of like your mentor too

I hate waking up early or waking to alarm clock (alarm clock if I have early meeting but that's rare), I wake up at like 11 and go to work, eat brunch, leave work at 4, then work middle of night.

[uncut nexus]

There is no "indian" standard per say

[spark cobalt]

I think you'll be able to really show off your skills by showcasing what your projects/experience does. A public website doesn't really say much. It could be the shittiest website or the best website and anyone reading your resume would not know.

I would at least start off with giving some descriptions of these websites you've made that can allow someone to visualize what it is (not literally, moreso of, if you built an e-commerce store, they can see it as something like the eBay website), what features it has, etc.

[uncut nexus]

Yes i have updated the resume with much better description, i just don't have it on mobile

I know this might be a hot take but To me leetcode is a low hanging fruit....

[spark cobalt]

If it gets you hired, why would it matter?

[uncut nexus]

Can't argue with that ☠️

[spark cobalt]

This is all just a game lol. Some strategies work better than others. Why are you limiting yourself from certain strategies if they get jobs (or at least help them get jobs)?

[uncut nexus]

But im proud of my projects 🥲

Other resumes are...
No projects, no experience,
A dead GitHub profile and leetcode rank (sometimes)) 🤔

[open cradle]

As far as I know, there is a huge percentage of indian people in engineering/computer fields. It might be also due to external factors such as the market

[uncut nexus]

Then there are the one with all skills under the sun

[spark cobalt]

I mean it may not be the best use of your time to grind Leetcode rank, but if you have a decent one you might as well put it on your resume. (I'd probably focus on networking and going to meetups/career fairs/etc. with that resume)

[uncut nexus]

That's what ive been telling myself ☠️

[uncut nexus]

Networking is what im focusing at...my Leetcode profile is ok.. (around 400 questions solved)

[near ocean]

surely if youre going to grind something it should be something like codeforces instead of leetcode, right?

[uncut nexus]

if I'd have to grind,i will do AtCoder

[spark cobalt]

How many websites are there

[uncut nexus]

Many, they all are online judges basically

[near ocean]

theyre all the same mostly, programming competition problems are a different beast
leetcode is pretty tame

[open cradle]

What's the difference between both?

[spark cobalt]

Ohh I see

[open cradle]

Oh just saw this message

[weak yacht]

I've heard some corporations making it mandatory during specific months. We live within the BEAST system, and I am not willing to partake in a satanic humiliation ritual.

[uncut nexus]

Code forces is more competitive programming

Leetcode is more interview based

[spark cobalt]

I've never heard of that

[near ocean]

atcoder looks like a japanese codeforces

[open cradle]

Neither do I

[fringe sphinx]

didn't you decide you didn't want a job?

[weak yacht]

leetcode or HackerRank? which one's better

[uncut nexus]

Yes it is the best Website imo,
It has good scaling

[uncut nexus]

For ? Cp or interviews?

[weak yacht]

Nope, I never said that

[spark cobalt]

I mean if we're being honest, almost all of these corporations are doing it for show. Why take it personally?

[uncut nexus]

Hackerrank is an active platform for companies to conduct technical interviews

[weak yacht]

for comuter programming

[near ocean]

they all look the same to me tbh but im so out of shape

[weak yacht]

It's a humiliation ritual...

[uncut nexus]

programming? None, for that make projects
Competitive programming.. go for code forces or atcoder

[spark cobalt]

This channel gets so many interesting people

[weak yacht]

What's an advantage of competitive programming?

[true harness]

you get better at solving algorithms questions

[near ocean]

where are you from? i thought you said UAE

[spark cobalt]

Btw how is that Keezy guy doing, did he get a job?

[weak yacht]

Yes, I am

[true harness]

@dreamy spade

[near ocean]

yea he's doing good last I heard

[weak yacht]

Does it have any practicle use?

[uncut nexus]

It is a subset of computer science in which we try to solve complex algorithmic problem in as less time as possible
(Both runtime and dev time)

[spark cobalt]

#python-discussion message Wait he says he has a manager

[true harness]

many employers ask algorithms questions in interviews, for one

[near ocean]

I very much doubt anyone forcing you to wear pride stuff in the UAE

[spark cobalt]

WWW KEEZY HOLY

[near ocean]

its the end of a story arc and the start of a new one

[weak yacht]

No, I am moving out to a western country

[uncut nexus]

Well competitive programming goes much higher level than that, (icpc)

[near ocean]

I'm not sure its appreciated in the server to call things like pride satanic rituals

and I doubt your host country would appreciate this mentality

[uncut nexus]

Ok back to me.. how do i get a good job...

[weak yacht]

No, I was talking about the mandatory show of support for employees by wearing a wristband of some sort. It was just a passing comment,

[open cradle]

I think it is all about being patient, determined and keep insisting

[near ocean]

its a wristband, maybe chill and appreciate human rights

[leaden jasper]

I have never heard of a company, especially in the tech sphere, that has a mandatory showing of support for a specific heritage month.

[open cradle]

Don't worry, this does not happen

[fringe sphinx]

The poppy's in UK might come close, altho not mandatory for sure

[near ocean]

thats just for a day tho right? rememberance day

[uncut nexus]

There is also one other thing....
I MIGHT move to Canada after college for PG 🤔
Lets say i do... What course would you recommend

[weak yacht]

You can register on Upwork. And apply for freelancing jobs over there.

[uncut nexus]

I already have a freelancing network

[open cradle]

Arent there E?

[near ocean]

in reality, the only tier list you need is
S+ - Can land offer
F - Cannot land offer

[weak yacht]

I have personal morals.

[weak yacht]

hopefully.

[near ocean]

kind of a stretch to call them morals, but anyway, it doesnt belong in #career-advice

[uncut nexus]

Why are banks on s+ trier for swe ?🤔

[near ocean]

he's chasing quant roles

[open cradle]

If it so bad for you and you still think it happens, you can always keep in the UAE and apply there.

[sleek egret]

certain software dev jobs at banks directly make money for the bank and pay accordingly (i.e. potentially a lot)

[uncut nexus]

I guess I'll keep applying 🫡

[weak yacht]

🤝

[open cradle]

Good luck with it!

[uncut nexus]

This got buried

[weak yacht]

pyschology or mathetmatics

[uncut nexus]

Why?

[weak yacht]

every other degree is useless.

and only go for pyschology if you get into a school famous for it, otherwise, it's not worth it at all

[uncut nexus]

.

[leaden jasper]

what experience do you have to back up this kind of statement? It's very bold

[near ocean]

maths to psych is such a leap

[open cradle]

You just discarded all engineering degrees

[uncut nexus]

Also maths is as big as the universe.... If im doing PG I'd like it to be a bit more specific ☠️

[weak yacht]

because everything else can be learned from books by yourself easily

[summer roost]

and... math... can't?

[uncut nexus]

I have learnt maths till now from books only 🤣

[leaden jasper]

Well, to be extremely harsh, I would recommend not listening to this person since they haven't provided their reasoning or what experience they have to back up that statement

[uncut nexus]

I listen to all... What i keep is well thats a secret

[weak yacht]

No, It's hard to learn proofs by yourself unless you're a genius. You need a tutor to explain how to think

[uncut nexus]

No , a good book in maths will literally teach you, hand guide you...but that doesn't still tell me what advantages it gives as a degree

Ok then... I guess I'll shortlist some courses and then we can discuss again

[weak yacht]

degree is just a piece of paper. It's worthless on it's own. You should leverage the knowledge you gained for your own advantage.

[open cradle]

Your question was so generic and I have no idea about Canada, so I do not think I can help you at least

[open cradle]

This is perfect. Until the recruiter asks you: "Where is your degree certificate?"

[weak yacht]

Maths it's good because it's a diving board for many other disciplines, like CompSci, Economics etc.

[summer roost]

people usually start by thinking about what job they want, then work backwards from there to what degree would be most valuable.

[summer roost]

most people don't get 3 degrees...

[open cradle]

You said you were 18 and looking to land a job. I think you are missing some important core concepts that you will acquire with more experience

[uncut nexus]

I do have a few things in my mind ... What i know is that i will probably to something related to data science (as i am already doing a minor in that)..
But there are a lot of options out there... So just wanna discuss

[weak yacht]

Actually, for being an economist, A Maths degree is worth more than a economy degree

[summer roost]

maybe, dunno, I don't know anything about economics. That doesn't seem particularly relevant to this community or Python, though.

[uncut nexus]

Such is the world that having a degree far outweighs not having one

[near ocean]

how can you have such opinions at 18 and unemployed

[uncut nexus]

old man's wisdom back at it

[weak yacht]

Bro, we live in the age of computers. You can start a business from your laptop. You can create anything on your computer using language. Why still do you want a "job".

[near ocean]

it takes ages to master this sort of wisdom

[open cradle]

Not the most common case but sure you can also try it.

[summer roost]

I've chosen to have a "job" instead of becoming an entrepreneur because it's less difficult, fewer hours, better work/life balance, and more interesting to me.

[weak yacht]

You can just get certifications bro, You really don't need a degree.

[fringe sphinx]

For what it’s worth, I’ve been an entrepreneur for a long time, strangely it’s been the same (better work life balance)

[weak yacht]

Yes. You took the easy way out. But you'll definitely have more work hours in the long run.

[summer roost]

per https://survey.stackoverflow.co/2022#education-ed-level-prof >90% of professional software developers have at least some college experience, ~80% have a degree.

[summer roost]

I very much doubt that's true...

[near ocean]

guy thinks being a business owner means to kick back and relax

[uncut nexus]

Also why not
First get a job...make connections...learn about industry.... Earn money and then do it

[summer roost]

managing people is something I don't particularly enjoy, and becoming an entrepreneur means spending much more time managing others than coding.

[weak yacht]

Yes, when the balls rolling. But at the beginning you will have to face a lot of tribulations.

[uncut nexus]

Face them for a long time too

[summer roost]

90% of startups fold within the first 5 years.

[near ocean]

is it appropriate to ask if youre a troll at this point

[weak yacht]

digital freedom, brother. You don't have to be chained into the BEAST society.

[uncut nexus]

I can't get the image of "balls rolling" out of my head ... Pls send help

[summer roost]

what's "the BEAST society"?

[fringe sphinx]

Read his messages from yesterday, he’s half troll, afaik

[open cradle]

It seems some kind of Andrew Tate's cult

[weak yacht]

look around you, who do you think has dominion over the principalities of earth? The millennium reign was over...

[summer roost]

I have absolutely no idea what that means

[uncut nexus]

That's a lot of words

[near ocean]

its just larping at this point

[weak yacht]

Uh no man, He was assumed that position. His father was CIA.

[uncut nexus]

Ok thanks null, it was very nice of you give me some entertainment while i had my tea.. be seeing everyone

[fringe sphinx]

I think this is what happens when skynet goes live

[summer roost]

I guess I'd say that people have dominion over the principalities of earth, but I have no idea what point that's supposed to make me see

[blissful owl]

That means you lack godly wisdom you heathen

You're probably a gnostic marcionite, isn't that right @weak yacht?

[summer roost]

I mean, yes, I'm an atheist

[fringe sphinx]

I wish there were a good screening question for: keep your personal beliefs irrelevant to work and conspiracy theories at home.

[blissful owl]

There are literally interdimensional reptilian humanoids that have access to the Akashic records that reside in the 7th plane of the astral realm and you just want me to "keep it to myself"?

[summer roost]

lol, ok, on that note, let's get back on topic

[weak yacht]

No, I'm not. I'm a Christian. Gnostiscm is the obsession of self. Thinking you're your own God. It's inherently luciferian.

[uncut nexus]

Author's POV?

[blissful owl]

Yes, the topic of how much money can I make by being a Python developer so I can pursue the most hedonistic lifestyle I possibly can

[open cradle]

No, but they all repeat the same: escape the matrix, be a beast, go to the gym...

[blissful owl]

I agree, I believe Gnosticism emerged just because some people couldn't get over the problem of evil

[vapid jay]

what would u develop

[uncut nexus]

Isn't all this very very offtopic

[fringe sphinx]

Back to the entrepreneur stuff, it is funny: I think the secret to either approach is enjoying what you do. I got a lot of motivation from my venture, and honestly don’t think I put in more hours than I would’ve… but it was also fulfilling

[blissful owl]

I get a lot of motivation from nicotine gums, they give me mental clarity

[uncut nexus]

How does one start tho? Like im broke basically

[summer roost]

totally agreed on that front. I'm just quite sure that I, personally, wouldn't enjoy the entrepreneurial stuff as I enjoy coding and technical mentorship

[blissful owl]

I was referring to @summer roost in that comment by the way, I just wanted your approval of him being that 😙

[fringe sphinx]

The critical thing is: do you know one person who’ll buy what you’re offering? If you do, you have a shot

[blissful owl]

Just sell drugs, legally ofc

[uncut nexus]

I do.... Ok then another SaaS in the long queue of already present coming up soon

[summer roost]

I have no idea what you mean by this, but consider this a final warning to get back on topic.

[fringe sphinx]

I didn’t ask for jobs, I listened for problems… and then offered to solve them

[blissful owl]

I am on topic? Sorry that you lack the attention span to realize that

[summer roost]

lol, I assure you, gnostic marcionism isn't on topic for our career discussion channel

[fringe sphinx]

It sounds cliche, but there is a lot of demand for software, but people view hiring and contractors as risk.

[vapid jay]

what has this channel come to

[blissful owl]

Bro's conflating everything I've said into one thing, we can say things on the side while still being on topic, y'know?

[summer roost]

it's a list of which places you'd most like to get a job at. You're asking others to weigh in on it, but others' preferences won't match yours, so this seems like an exercise in futility

for instance, I'd much rather work at Microsoft than Apple, and I doubt anything could ever convince me to work for Amazon

[blissful owl]

fr fr

[fringe sphinx]

Me, one of my first jobs was at a high growth startup. That was a career jump starter for sure

[weak yacht]

"I'd rather work for one baby eating billionaire than the other baby eating billionaire" 😭 👍

[summer roost]

!warn 1135362540025692250 Suggesting that billionaires eat babies is

lol

!warn 304627882075095041 Suggesting that billionaires eat babies is far below the level of discourse that we expect from members of our server. Review our #code-of-conduct if you intend to continue participating in this server.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @weak yacht.

[blissful owl]

Quickly off-topic but they do eat babies so they can harvest their adrenochrome, k back on topic

[pine sleet]

[summer roost]

!tempban 1053500942550569061 14d low effort trolling

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @blissful owl until <t:1691971648:f> (14 days).

[weak yacht]

bro.. He was telling you the ... nvm

[weak yacht]

sorry bro, but why Microsoft over Apple and Apple over Amazon. What is your logical reasoning for this.

[vapid jay]

this guy takes his role to seriously lol.

[weak yacht]

It's the power trip

[true harness]

it's just a phase

[summer roost]

I think Microsoft does positive things for developers (GitHub, WSL, Faster CPython, TypeScript, C#, VS Code, Language Server Protocol, etc) and treats their developers well. Apple is much less willing to open source things or do things that benefit the developer community overall, and notoriously treats its developers poorly (they can't make open source contributions on their own time, for instance)

[fringe sphinx]

Taking this as a genuine question: each company has very different engineering cultures. To me, from the people I’ve talked to: Microsoft seems like a familiar culture and Amazon feels alien.

[leaden jasper]

curious, for the open source contributions, is that at all or only applicable to projects/repos that might have an impact at what they do at work?