career-advice

[silver jacinth]

So preparation?

[sleek egret]

they use interns for that

(if they have interns available, that is)

[dusk scaffold]

and Encoding Categorical

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, then you're on the right path

[silver jacinth]

Most of that can be automated now, there's a YouTube channel I watched with this girl and she said that there's this site that does all that and gives you clean CSV stuff to work with

[dusk scaffold]

yeah i am learning form Udemy well reviewed course right now.

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, keep it up. Always be learning!

[sleek egret]

is encoding categorical sort of like feature extraction?

[silver jacinth]

There's a Google deep mind or Nvidia guy that has a Udemy course and YouTube course

The YouTube one is free and it goes over all the problems you'll solve and then all the algorithms

[toxic fiber]

how tf am i supposed to learn python, i read the whole official tutorial and i still dont understand most things

[sleek egret]

all of them?

[fringe sphinx]

I assumed something like onehotencoding, but either way, good starting point for getting startign in ds

[sleek egret]

that's like trying to learn how to play guitar only by reading all the books about playing guitar. you also have to, you know, actually play. so your next step is actually write programs using python. repeatedly.

[toxic fiber]

im writing discord bots, but whenever i ask for help somewhere people use terms i didnt even see in the book

[pine sleet]

Discord bots aren't a beginner project

[fringe sphinx]

Welcome to the club! Lots of new programmers feel this way. It'll take time and practice, but it'll come together.

[sleek egret]

take comfort in the fact that you will still learning new things 10 years from now. that you need help with your exercises is a good thing. it means you're pushing your boundaries and learning new things.

[silver jacinth]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jGwO_UgTS7I

[pine sleet]

I mean you definetely can do them but personally would recommend another project than a discord bot if it's your first project

[silver jacinth]

@dusk scaffold watch this and see if the field is something you'll be interested by.

[toxic fiber]

how am i supposed to learn it then, i heard stuff like "get the returned value then send the object" stuff like that and i just cant understand what exactly i have to put in my code

[sleek egret]

um, yeah, to echo @pine sleet if you're confused about most of the topics, then you're probably trying to do something too advanced

[dusk scaffold]

ok i will

[fringe sphinx]

Are you following a tutorial or course?

[toxic fiber]

no

[sleek egret]

yeah... hmm... sounds like a bot is too advanced for you at this point. but you'll get there eventually.

[toxic fiber]

what would be a begginer project, like almost complete begginer

[pine sleet]

rock paper scissors, a number guessing game, tic tac toe, etc

[fringe sphinx]

What's a good online tutorial? I don't really know what we're recommending nowadays.

[pine sleet]

!projects has a list of ideas you can do (I believe they're separated by skill level as well)

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[sleek egret]

no offense, but because of your previous question, I suspect you've only been writing code for a few weeks or few months. that is "almost complete beginner".

[silver jacinth]

Programming takes more than 1 month to get good

[toxic fiber]

i study c# in school so i know the basics but were doing just too simple things

[silver jacinth]

How long have you been learning?

[sleek egret]

ok. you know your level better than anyone else. the point is that your projects should be just a bit beyond what you already know. otherwise you will just get confused and frustrated.

[dusk scaffold]

how much time does it takes to learn AI for to get a job or to make stuff? if i am just using the build-in models not making new ones?

[silver jacinth]

Depends on role, check the open ai discord

There's a lot of data scientist there. It all depends

[sleek egret]

sorry, missed the last part of your question. my guess is a few months assuming you can learn rapidly and are already a good programmer

[toxic fiber]

like a year, but as i said these things that we learn are soo simple. its stuff like prompting an input for 2 numbers then multiplying them, and then the same stuff over and over but with different operators(if,switch case, etc.) basically no improvement

[sleek egret]

it helps if you have an intuitive grasp of math at the level of "the relationship between these two data sets is linear/non-linear" so you can massage data or select approaches. but not 100% required as many models essentially compensate for that.

[silver jacinth]

You could ask your teacher if you're able to speed up. Might be an issue with the curriculum

[toxic fiber]

not an option

its not an outside of class activity, that is my proffession in school and it lasts like 4-5 years and we have predetermined things that we have to learn

and im supposed to get a certificate for c# at the end of those 4 years

[fringe sphinx]

If you want to learn Python, and learn it at a University level, one option is CS50P: https://cs50.harvard.edu/python/2022/

[silver jacinth]

Certificate or certification?

[toxic fiber]

difference?

[fringe sphinx]

But, there are many other online tutorials and courses, I'm just not familiar with them.

[silver jacinth]

Certificate is something you are recognized for achieving but doesn't mean you'll necessarily be certified line a certification would

[toxic fiber]

wouldnt that be kinda hard for a complete begginer

[fringe sphinx]

No. It's a beginner course.

[toxic fiber]

its like the thing they require when youre trying to get a job

[sleek egret]

be aware that that class is for adult continuing education. it is not the class undergrads take. the "real" undergrad CS50 is much more challenging and covers a lot more ground

[silver jacinth]

Do you do an exam?

[toxic fiber]

yeah

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, fair, I just think the curriculum is well structured. I'm a bigger fan of the cs50x (vs cs50p) because of the breadth of material

[dusk scaffold]

btw thanks guys for you recommendation about AI stuffs.

[silver jacinth]

Yep my college offers something like that and the teacher is our cs teacher. He hated teaching that

[toxic fiber]

its been like 1 year and we've learnt stuff you can learn in a day

[silver jacinth]

Is it a college

[toxic fiber]

nah just high school we have all our normal subjects + additionally c#

[silver jacinth]

I'll talk to the teacher

[fringe sphinx]

What country?

[toxic fiber]

bulgaria

[sleek egret]

school must be structured so that the bottom 20% can still pass

[toxic fiber]

basically

[silver jacinth]

Wait till you see IB

[fringe sphinx]

Oh nice. I hired two great engineers from Bulgaria (both went to university in the states).

[sleek egret]

universities are more selective. so if 30% of students can enter, and it's structured so that 80% can pass, that means it's at the level that 24% of all adults can pass it

[silver jacinth]

Mine operates on class averages

So class avg must be x %. And teachers lowered my marks to maintain that too

[twilit parcel]

So I’m not sure if this is the right place to ask this but I’m curious. I’ve been into computers since like high school really. I’ve always assumed tech would be my career due to my interest in them and just being on them all the time. It’s what I know best and it’s what I’m aiming for. Recently trying to code though I’ve found a huge lack in motivation and I know this is partly my adhd and my laziness but another part is due to not finding any projects interesting. Everything I generally look up sounds just no fun. Everyone’s advice is find a project that interests you and just go with it, what if nothing really interests me. Like I’m second guessing if I’m even in the right field and if not then what else do I do this is all I’ve ever known. Kind of a long read so sorry. I should also tack on that I do enjoy coding when I get into it. There is something just so satisfying about figuring out why something isn’t working etc and just getting the pieces together.

[toxic fiber]

relatable asf

[sleek egret]

try looking at it from the other side... when ARE you interested? when DO you feel motivated?

[twilit parcel]

I keep telling myself like once I know what I’m doing more and more educated in the field the interest will come because I do believe that I have some interest.

[toxic fiber]

yep, exactly. i want to be actually able to know what im doing

[sleek egret]

that sounds boring to me

[twilit parcel]

Well for me I would say I had a web application idea for example. I started up flask and got to working on it, it wasn’t too too bad at the start but then I’m thinking shit am I organizing my files how I should maybe and then it was should I learn this instead first? It just feels like I get motivated, start trying, and then give up because I think I’m too stupid or don’t know if I’m applying my work/study in the right area of python

[fringe sphinx]

Totally believe this. It's hard to stay motivated when you feel like you're drowning, but you get through it.

If you're struggling with structure, try to find a program, course, tutorial and stick with the program and do all of the assignments/work.

[sleek egret]

hmm, do you worry about if the approach your taking is correct?

[twilit parcel]

Yeah I’m a mixed bag on one hand I watch a bunch of YouTube and feel that they help but I also don’t want to get stuck in the loop of following along with videos

[fringe sphinx]

Also, hang out in this community: You will get stuck on things, and people here are very friendly.

Particularly in #python-discussion

[twilit parcel]

Yeah like I’m so uneducated with python that I’m not sure if I’m attempting something well out of my level or if it’s just reasonable more complicated and I will learn by pushing through it. I have no problem spending a good amount of time learning to fix something but if I’m in the wrong place altogether it’s useless.

[sleek egret]

I'm afraid that beyond a few vague principles, the only real way to learn how to structure programs is by doing and failing. you write something, then come back later to change it. and realize that it's poorly structured. so you change it. then come back to change it again... and see that it still sucks. so you fix it. then come back to make more changes...

but that mere fact that you're concerned about program structure (i.e. that you've realized that you need to manage complexity) is a great sign. it means that you've finally gotten past the phase where coding itself is a struggle.

[silver jacinth]

do you like coding/building projects or would you rather fix/build computers

[fringe sphinx]

If you hang out here long enough, you'll see that you're in good company. This feeling of "out of my level" is very common when learning programming. When you're stuck, as #python-discussion for help... (preferably after trying to figure it out first)

[silver jacinth]

if you don't like coding, I would say look into IT projects like buying broken laptops and trying to fix them on ebay

[sleek egret]

I've noticed that one thing many younger folks still in school or just out of school have a hard time dealing with is the lack of clear cut evaluation (ok/not ok, pass/fail, letter grade, etc.).

[fringe sphinx]

And a reluctance to open the textbook 🙂

[sleek egret]

I'm afraid that this will be life henceforth. doubly so for software. there is no "correct" or "incorrect". there is only "better" and "worse". hell, sometimes your changes are BOTH better AND worse, just in different contexts.

engineering is about making tradeoffs. it helps when you can do them consiously.

[sleek egret]

I've read more textbooks after university than I did while I was in university. you can't stop learning when school ends or you will rapidly be left behind,.

btw, this is true for most high-paying professions. doctors, lawyers, etc... they all have to keep studying after school.

[fringe sphinx]

yah, to go off an old man rant... my frustration is the attitude of: "I graduated college, I should make the big bucks but only clock my 40** (remote) hours in and not do anything extra"

[sleek egret]

i've seen that. but in fairness, the young hot shots of today are a lot smarter than the hot shots when I was a kid

the average though... le sigh

[twilit parcel]

To be fair I never even went to college

Well I did for two years. I think a big thing with coding is just understanding the small things you’re doing in the meantime until you scale up. Sometimes it feels as if I’m doing pointless work even though I know it’s all part of the journey. Also have no problem learning just kind of wondering if I’m even in the right field at this point but definitely leaning towards a general motivation issue

[echo thistle]

any DoD engineers in here?

[echo thistle]

work towards something you WANT to work towards. find a project you want to work on and u will be able to endure the roadblocks and learn so much more since it is something you care about.

enjoy the grind

[twilit parcel]

Thank you

[celest kite]

[smoky quest]

What if there were?

[echo thistle]

well, assuming there are. I wonder if it is even worth working for DoD, do you guys think that I’d be able to stay up on my skills, assuming they aren’t using “boomer tech” vs a FANNG company. Hypothetically of course

[deft herald]

I work for a company that has a government-specific wing

[dreamy shadow]

There's a lot of companies that have gov contracts while being public or w/e.

[deft herald]

yeah

[echo thistle]

ive heard it is a bit slower due to chain of command / waiting for directions

[deft herald]

I would go that route over working for gov't directly

[echo thistle]

it'd most likely be with a contractor

[deft herald]

This is exactly why i've had lots of coworkers transfer to the government division

[dreamy shadow]

Generally, you get paid less in gov but a lot more lax.

[echo thistle]

interesting so civilian companies are worse is what youre saying

[deft herald]

Define: worse

What i'm saying is that compared to the fast pace and high pressure of the rest of the company, the government side was a nice change

[echo thistle]

Worse = chaotic, clash of heads in higher ups, leniency for people that don't do their job properly, not as strict

[fringe sphinx]

It’s hard to generalize. I’ve had several friends working for the big defense contractors, mixed stories. Some love, some hate

[deft herald]

Yeah, i mean i'm speaking from my experience with one company

(their stock ticker is QCOM)

[echo thistle]

yeah i have friends from contractors. i'm getting multiple opinions right now and evaluating

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I’ve heard some horrible overtime stories though… when a project falls behind, it’s brutal. And nobody seems to get fired: so you might have a lot of unqualified coworkers

(But, I’ve heard the same about EA/game companies)

[echo thistle]

hmm, well thanks all for the input 🤝

[smoky quest]

I would frame it more with regards to your career goals and your "style".
DoD is huge and as pointed out by others, it depends where specifically.

[vital wyvern]

I'd weigh a DoD job (to clarify, a job as a DoD contractor/employee and not military member) as you would any other job.

[echo thistle]

its more of does the DoD hire people that are competent (for teams that arent using old tech). its going to vary on if i gel with the team, i get that.

[echo thistle]

i am not working at a startup that pays 150k

[late flame]

Generally government jobs pay less but have nice benefits and are slower paced. If you really want to move up in your career I'd suggest against that kind of job. Not all government jobs are like that though. DOD definitely has some top of the line tech and sometimes since the job is slow paced they give you a lot of freedom for side projects.

I worked for the government as an intern once. The actual job was never going to help my resume but I had a lot of leeway for side stuff. Make a new feature in lisp even though they use visual basic? Sure why not, have fun kid.

Banks are in the same boat. 300k starting, do whatever you want on the side, but the main job is going to be COBOL and there's no changing that

[vital wyvern]

I want to work at whatever bank you were working for that started at 300k.

[late flame]

If you're working on their core tech (COBOL) then yes it's 300k starting. And ending, because there's no real opportunity for advancement.

I've heard of a school in Canada that has a degree program that specializes in COBOL and everyone that graduates pretty much gets snapped up instantly by banks. Not a lot of grads of course

[echo thistle]

So even if I were to work in something that is top of the line, it's going to be slower than a FANNG company?

[late flame]

Maybe? FAANG companies move slow as hell too. I've worked for Google, it takes 7 layers of review to approve the smallest things.

[vital wyvern]

It depends largely on what you do and where you work. The government is enormous.

[echo thistle]

Hmm interesting

[vital wyvern]

This is very contrary to what I've heard.

[late flame]

You write a 20 page doc, let other engineers look at it, get it approved by your manager, then legal, security, privacy, accessibility, and the org lead and then if they all say yes you're approved to write 100 lives of code that calls a library function.

[late flame]

Everything is slow but there's so much going on that in aggregate it's all fast. I'd say that I spent most of my time reading documentation, which was necessary because new stuff was coming out all the time.

And the Google way is to have two ways to do everything: the way that's not quite ready yet, and the way that's just been deprecated.

[vital wyvern]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXRa-oxOQsI&t=790s

[late flame]

You want to actually push a lot of features you got to join a startup, or join a smaller part of a FAANG company since there's less oversight. I'm sure the Stadia team was able to move very fast, but also they were missing pretty basic core features before it was shut down so who knows but them.

[echo thistle]

This is what my guess was. I'd much rather be apart of a smaller team with less oversight and more freedom, yet still a major piece of the puzzle.

[late flame]

Fast moving means startup, generally. There's no strict rule here so there will always be exceptions, but smaller companies move faster because they can and they have to.

[echo thistle]

Got it. So midsize startup is probably the best way to improve my skills and be as active as possible without having a 1-10 employee startup

[late flame]

Major piece of which puzzle? There's no team at a large company where you get a lot of freedom and are still very important. It's a trade-off; work on something more important means more oversight in all cases.

Yeah mid sized startups are where I enjoy myself the most too. Best stock options as well

[echo thistle]

Much to think about

[fringe sphinx]

That’s a great point. I’ve worked in small and big tech: and the team matters. I’ve worked at midsized tech companies with endless bureaucracy , and in a small team at a large tech company that was lean and agile in all the right ways.

[silver jacinth]

banks here pay 18$ hr for internships CAD

[celest kite]

They're talking about being hired to support legacy bank systems that require knowledge of cobol

[summer roost]

Hm. https://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Scotiabank-Engineering-Salaries-EI_IE11013.0,10_DEPT1007.htm shows software engineer and data scientist internships in Canada at $70k CAD annualized, which is $33.65 CAD/hr

[silver jacinth]

ibkr offered me 18$ an hour

[summer roost]

hm. ibkr isn't a bank

[silver jacinth]

technically it is

[summer roost]

https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/general/financial-strength.php#:~:text=IBKR IS NOT A BANK,market on a bank's books.

their website says they're not

[silver jacinth]

https://www.interactivebrokers.ca/en/index.php?f=26451

you can hold forex currencies in your account, however if you do journaling you can avoid fees in other currencies. So USD to CAD and CAD to USD is free

[summer roost]

in any event, even if it was a bank, it's not the kind of bank that pays well. It's investment banks that pay well, not retail banks.

[silver jacinth]

https://wealthsavvy.ca/norberts-gambit-questrade/
however for ibkr the fee is basically in cents

I use it for paypal when I buy things on ebay, it pays from that acc

[gray marsh]

is there any base64 library written in rust or c/c++ that can run faster than the standard library

[silver jacinth]

35bill market cap, not that big /s

rbc, cibc, td, bmo are in the big 5 banks

[summer roost]

it's not about the size, it's about the line of business.

[silver jacinth]

anyways I didn't pass the interview 🥹

[summer roost]

retail banks are an entirely different business than investment banks are. It's pretty misleading that they're even both called "banks" - they do totally different things.

[silver jacinth]

they wanted me to have a visa for the usa

[fringe sphinx]

Incidentally, I like ibkr.

[silver jacinth]

here they're together

[summer roost]

huh, TIL

[silver jacinth]

anyways, I like ibkr either way. You can easily pay without transfering stuff when you get dividend payouts

[fringe sphinx]

ibkr's business is more brokerage not a full services institution, I think of them more a fintech play + brokerage, similar to a robinhood.

At least, thats my understanding

[silver jacinth]

well yeah, however TD is very similar to them

[summer roost]

well, in any event, seems like Scotiabank pays their interns almost 2x as much as Interactive Brokers, hehe

[silver jacinth]

anyways I think its impossible to get an internship rn, only saw 500 jobs posted in total (500 roles)

[true harness]

nah i know someone that got an internship

[silver jacinth]

in canada?

[true harness]

nah

[silver jacinth]

I meant its impossible to get one in canada right now

[fringe sphinx]

The irony of all this is, I'm hiring an intern that some friends son referred, and not looking at any new resumes from LinkedIn, where I got a flooded with a pile of garbage.

[silver jacinth]

279 applicants, only 10 or so are actually in a school system

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, pretty much that... I think 1/3rd weren't even CS majors (or anywhere related).

I'm not even sure I had one that met my basic criteria: in state, rising Junior or Senior, and CS

[silver jacinth]

I was gonna work on a tool for filtering cvs and put it on github, but I'm too lazy

[summer roost]

hah. That's interesting anecdata for the next time someone doomposts about how many applicants LinkedIn shows for every position

[silver jacinth]

just pass it into a colab llm until it matches whatever

[silver jacinth]

easy apply is awful

[fringe sphinx]

I liken it to the more "selective" college admissions numbers... students are applying to dozens of schools nowadays

[silver jacinth]

applying through sites is around 5-10 minutes each time...

[true harness]

yeah i just assume at least 50% bots

[silver jacinth]

or people not even in the country (if you list it as remote)

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I'm also really picky: I want candidates within a certain radius/etc.

If I were "gaming" the system with my resumes, and perhaps unethically, I'd list a local city near whichever companies I was applying to.

[summer roost]

I mean, doesn't everyone? The reason to hire interns is to improve your hiring pipeline for juniors. If you're not willing to accept remote juniors, then of course you'll want to give local interns a massive bump in priority over more distant ones

[silver jacinth]

I'll assume most remote interns won't actually work though

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, true/fair.

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, that causes me some consternation: we're 80% remote now, and it's been a few years since we hired juniors.

[silver jacinth]

but after we see the massive real estate bubble for companies shifting to remote (if it ends up continuing), then all those offices will be liquidated. We'll probably see more intern roles

[summer roost]

Hm. If so, that'd be a failure of the mentor and management, not the intern, really.

though it certainly is much tougher to provide mentoring for remote employees than in-person ones

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, that's more of my consternation: I have faith that people want to learn/work. It's just the added complexity and communication inefficiency.

[silver jacinth]

its more like remote work is in its infancy and companies are only now transitioning more to it

[summer roost]

I have faith that people want to learn/work
yeah. And you should be able to get a reasonable read of someone's level of motivation and interest during the interview

I think it'd be very, very apparent in the interview if someone isn't interested in learning

so if the intern gets bored and decides to stop trying, it's a good signal something else has gone wrong somewhere, and they're not getting the support they need to learn and be productive

[robust island]

In general, how much is there to learn for someone new? Is it mostly just the workflow and people, but familiar tasks and concepts for college grads?

[summer roost]

oh god, so very much

[silver jacinth]

our internships though that are part of our program are subsidized by the government. Its 225 hours at 18$, 22$ for uni

I have one in the winter

[robust island]

Does it mostly depend on the job as to how much there is to learn?

[silver jacinth]

each project has their own codebase

[summer roost]

not really. honestly, even a very good grad will take 6 months or a year before they start being a net benefit to the team, and even longer before they can be trusted to complete tasks without a lot of oversight

[silver jacinth]

do most unis even teach you git

[true harness]

mine doesn't, though, it's pretty bad. not too hard to pick up anyway

[fringe sphinx]

I don't believe so, I love this course: https://missing.csail.mit.edu/

[silver jacinth]

we covered most of those except: potpourri, metaprogramming, data wrangling

however my college is technical and our gov sponsors it since its meant to fill vacancies in the labor market

its not a university per say and quebec only offers it. We had this girl from a university transfer into our program and she didn't know what she was doing and never showed up to the classes

wait nvm we covered those all

[smoky quest]

they didn't. The ones I know just expect you to pick it up as you go.
It's not something difficult to pick up for a student

[true harness]

all you have to understand is that it's a dag and it has funnily named operations

[silver jacinth]

data wrangling is basically teachers removing 20% of your grade because they think its hard to understand thank you my python teacher

[silver jacinth]

branching took me awhile to get

you can revert branches and then still end up with a merge conflict, also you can add different files from other branches which is cool

We basically had to learn it all on our own, gitlab is trash with all the stuff though so its all in the commandline

[heady talon]

I'm more into app development. Hoping to get more into AI soon. How do I land a job? I have a few projects I'm working on. One big one that almost complete.

[smoky quest]

A CS degree is the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[heady talon]

Anyway to get a job without going to school?

[silver jacinth]

you could try getting certifications

[smoky quest]

anything is possible, but they have different degrees of plausibility.
Note also the path would be very different

[heady talon]

Of course

[smoky quest]

to be clear, having a degree and not having a degree are not equivalent. As long as you are ready to accept that and potentially work a lot more for a lot less salary, then yeah

[heady wyvern]

When it comes to software engineering, there are many languages. Which language do software engineers use the most, in other words which language is the most wanted by employers, particularly internships.

[fringe sphinx]

You want to graduate college with more than one language under your belt. There's probably some good survey's out there, actually, I have no idea what the best languages for jobs are. There's many different paths.

[heady talon]

I mainly use Python. But will probably switch to Mojo as my main language once it comes out. I am learning JavaScript. I know a little bit of bash.

[late flame]

Python, c++ and Java are still the top three. If you're proficient in any language it's not that hard to switch to a new one.

[heady wyvern]

This internship doesnt ask for the popular coding languages?

[smoky quest]

I wouldn't waste my time with mojo.
You could slice and dice in different ways:

• What's popular - look at the stack overflow survey
• What's in use - look at the languages requested in job ads in your area
• What's useful for you - Learn different languages from different paradigms

[smoky quest]

languages are just tools. Different languages for different problems
For ios apps, swift is the best tool

[silver jacinth]

swift is similar to js

[sleek egret]

they forgot javascript for the web dev team

js and swift are only similar on a syntax aesthetics level

most importantly, js is a prototype-based object oriented language while swift is a message passing class-based object oriented language

[heady talon]

So, is Web development the most popular for jobs?

[sleek egret]

no

[silver jacinth]

depends on what you view popular, since that is subjective

[heady talon]

Looking through Indeed.com, alot of jobs are web dev.

[sleek egret]

it's just that most systems require some sort of UI and web UI's are the most common these days. but 1) the UI is a rather small portion of the entire system and 2) it is usually what is assigned to junior developers

[fringe sphinx]

A strong web dev, especially one w/ full stack background, is valuable anywhere.

[silver jacinth]

you'll often need web development for software roles too

[sleek egret]

"full stack" is not an actual skill. it just means "not UI"

[fringe sphinx]

I mean, someone who's not just an HTML/CSS/REACT dev, but can write some backend stuff.

[sleek egret]

which is another way of saying "not UI"

[smoky quest]

"not just UI"

[fringe sphinx]

I dunno, I guess we're saying the same thing? Agree.

[weak bluff]

Hey guys I'm on the edge of signing up for a web developer boot camp with minimal python introductory under my belt. Am I on the right direction to obtaining my first role in the tech industry through a boot camp?

[sleek egret]

sure, many people do web dev as their first job or two (or more)

[smoky quest]

A CS degree is the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation.
If you are in high school or college age, a CS degree would have a lot more value.

Besides that, a bootcamp is better than nothing

[heady talon]

Has anyone played around with ChatGPT? How do you think it's going to effect the market?

[silver jacinth]

It'll make programming more accessible which I am 100% for

[sleek egret]

it will reduce the demand for the some sorts of junior developeres. the sort that do mechanistic work

[weak bluff]

im 12 years into pressure pipe welding, wanting to be able to see my home and get away from the hazards to my health while im still young (33)

[silver jacinth]

however, the easier it gets, the more we can push innovation since tech is tied to coding

[heady talon]

I use it alot to write functions. It's very useful.

[silver jacinth]

so we'll develop more jobs, just means we're transitioning and speeding our innovation like the industrial revolution

[smoky quest]

A bootcamp would then be reasonable as a change of career.
The path would still be different, but sounds like better than today's path

[sleek egret]

people from stranger backgrounds have built successful software dev careers. that said, be aware that most entry level jobs get 100's of applicants, most of which are 20-22 year olds with university degrees directly related to programming

[smoky quest]

thousands of applicants*

[sleek egret]

is it really that bad now?

[heady talon]

What do yall think about most jobs requiring 2-3 years of experience?

[smoky quest]

it was already thousands a few years ago.
It's worse now

[silver jacinth]

that's just right now

[smoky quest]

they are awesome for people who have 2-3 years of experience

[weak bluff]

Is the industry heavily leaned on networking as oppose to just blindly applying everywhere?

[sleek egret]

most software developers have 10+ years of experience, so it's not a big deal

[heady talon]

Only gonna get worse. Haha.

[fringe sphinx]

Yes.

[sleek egret]

yes, very much so

[heady talon]

indeed

[fringe sphinx]

And it's been that way for a long time.

[silver jacinth]

well, I plan for a recession here in canada. Not sure about the rest of the world. The states can just keep printed to avoid a default

[sleek egret]

after your first few jobs, most people find work through recommendations by past collogues and managers

[smoky quest]

I would say that networking provides some benefits.
But not having networked would not be a negative

[sleek egret]

it reduces the # of slots available because some openings will get pre-filled, so to speak, via a recommendation

[fringe sphinx]

Heck, I had an intern position posted on linkedin and handshake. I'm most likely hiring from a direct referral (friend of a friends son),got so much garbage resumes.

[silver jacinth]

you can start your own company too

if you have friends willing to help, or you know how to do business

[smoky quest]

building pipelines out of great schools is a nice way to avoid some of these issues

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, my last company, we mostly hired from the career development centers at local schools.

~Half the engineers was from one school.

[sleek egret]

even from top schools, you have to go through a few dozen kids to find a good one. that said, it's far better than from average schools

[silver jacinth]

imo schools should have a database for students, that would be easier to contact them

[smoky quest]

far better than thousands of garbage resumes

[sleek egret]

indeed

[weak bluff]

what makes it a garbage resume? Keywords or just work experience or the way its typed out?

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, a lot of them have pushed it to handshake... the local school I liked to hire from used to have a nice database and were more active with placements.

[sleek egret]

the inability to do even the most basic work

[silver jacinth]

people think having no knowledge or portfolio but coding 2 lines makes them able to work at google

[sleek egret]

for internships and entry level positions, expect to have to take a test of some sort.

[smoky quest]

all of the above.
Plus internships are for students, not self taught. Yet many self taught try.
Plus lots of folks with pretty basic projects/skills. They don't realize the level of the average student

[silver jacinth]

or people that do not know how to think for themselves

[weak bluff]

so if i were to go throught boot camp, make sure I have projects on github to show off is what you're saying

[sleek egret]

it's not fair, but from my side, I need to do it to filter the 100's of resumes down to a dozen or so I can interview

[fringe sphinx]

A few years ago, the problem was low inventory: the people on the market were generally not very good. Now, the problem is high inventory. (sorry to equate people to houses)

[silver jacinth]

you want to have a degree

[sleek egret]

people are just resources 🙂

[silver jacinth]

boot camps are not good unless you are getting a certification, not a certificate

[smoky quest]

job ads have thousands of applicants, with most of them having awesome projects, a bsc in cs, internships, etc.
You won't have the education/internship part, so your projects really need to stand out from the mass to get called back.

[sleek egret]

sadly, a large % of resumes are full of lies

[silver jacinth]

this

[sleek egret]

at least I assume they're lies. because the average performance on our simple tests are ... well ...

[smoky quest]

students may stretch the truth, but in the grand scheme of thing, it's not as bad and they are too naive to know how to lie well.
The non-student ones, on the other hand...

[sleek egret]

lol, that's a good point. never thought of it that way

[smoky quest]

Also to be clear, while my messages were meant as a reality check, they were not meant to discourage you.
While you may not easily get access to a FAANG/tech job, there will still be plenty of doors opened with your bootcamp

[summer roost]

If you're going to go the bootcamp route, spend a lot of up front effort picking the right bootcamp. The best bootcamps have relationships with local businesses, and are able to shunt graduates directly into a hiring pipeline for people who need the exact sorts of skills that the bootcamp trained people on. The worst bootcamps advertise that 100% of their graduates get job offers - and guarantee that by taking any graduate who doesn't find a job and offering them a job teaching the next batch of students.

[weak bluff]

i appreciate your follow up, definitely pushed me down a little and there is nothing wrong with that either. I don't want to be mislead.

[sleek egret]

oh, and even though there's lots of applicants for each slot, the vast majority of applicants eventually land a job. even the poor ones. each company is looking for something different, after all. and these days, it's so easy to apply.

[summer roost]

yeah. College graduates regularly report submitting 100 applications to land a job. I've heard non-grads report 10x that much. Be prepared for rejection. It's a numbers game, you only need to get chosen once.

[sleek egret]

and the first job is the hardest. once you get your first job, it gets easier and easier as the years go by

until you get older... and then it gets harder again, lol

[weak bluff]

haha thanks for the input, really appreciate it!

[fallow wren]

Any of these courses look good/bad?

Year 2 (30 credit hours)
INFR 1400U – Statistics and Probability for IT
INFR 1550U – Law and Ethics of IT
INFR 2411U – Advanced Networking I
INFR 2421U – Advanced Networking II
INFR 2600U – Introduction to Computer Security
INFR 2820U – Algorithms and Data Structures
INFR 2830U – Operating Systems
INFR 3120U – Web and Script Programming

Year 3 (30 credit hours)
BUSI 2550U – Introduction to Project Management
INFR 2431U – Advanced Networking III
INFR 2670U – Introduction to Cloud Services
INFR 3600U – Cryptography and Network Security
INFR 3610U – Operating System Security
INFR 3700U – Machine Learning
INFR 3720U – Basics of Digital Transmission
INFR 3810U – Database Systems
INFR 3850U – System and Network Administration

[pine sleet]

That's a lot of credit hours

[fallow wren]

lol

[pine sleet]

IIRC the maximum in a lot of places is like, 18

[fallow wren]

full couse load?

[pine sleet]

You'd need to get explicit permission to take more than that (at least in the US)

[fallow wren]

Canada is different lol

[pine sleet]

Ah, can't comment on Canada then

[fallow wren]

is that per sem or total year

[pine sleet]

18 hours of lectures/instruction per week, per semester

[fallow wren]

its 30 hours in total for both semester one semester is 15 hours approx

[fringe sphinx]

My rule for picking classes is: Pick classes in things you know nothing (the least) about.

[pine sleet]

Ah, that's much more reasonable

[fallow wren]

well thats a positive for me lol

I feel like my degree leans way more into a devops/cyber security analyst then it does traditional programming

[fringe sphinx]

Of the year 2 courses, Operating Systems, Data Structures, Stats are definites. Maybe networking too.

[fallow wren]

networking is the main part of the degree its IT (networking and security) as the major

30 credit hours for the year (both semesters)

[fringe sphinx]

The law one is probably very interesting.

[fallow wren]

I heard some people from my program were able to transition to cloud with my IT degree + a few AWS certs pretty easily

college courses

[fallow wren]

im debating whether to transition into cloud or go for more something more coding heavy career wise

[pine sleet]

They spend 15 hours in classes per week

[fallow wren]

both are fascinating im at a cross roads tbh

I bought a AWS Solution Architects course recently to dive my feet into that because the free resources are horrible unlike for programming

[fallow wren]

I heard its a hard elective**

thats what my dad told me

[vapid jay]

heyy, does anyone know any websites where i can easily sell scraped data? preferablly non kyc but anything works ig

its not what it sounds like
i am nOT breaking rule 5

[toxic fiber]

breaking bad

[vapid jay]

its not like that bro

[toxic fiber]

since when is there a legit side of selling scraped data

[vapid jay]

ill only sell scraped data from sites that allow me to scrape and automate stuff
trust me bro

[toxic fiber]

[vapid jay]

no malicious activity here bro 👍

im only joking, i genuinely need a site to sell stuff. upwork is teh closest thing i found but its super hard to egt a job

i basically have to sell my soul and more

[wanton birch]

I think if he scrapes, then trains models based on this and then sells the models or access to the models, it becomes all good

[buoyant seal]

Modern data/license laundering
Microsoft which trained copilot on open source repositories will be proud

[vapid jay]

🧌

[wanton birch]

Yeah.
By the way, I am not suggesting that it is the ethical thing it do. Also, laws tend to be different depending on who you are.

[hearty island]

ooh project management

[surreal pasture]

I have a question for fullstack devs,

Should I go with Flask+React or Django+react

I am looking to enter full stack and have made 1-2 small CRUD projects.

So should I switch to django or continue flask with react coming later on

[buoyant seal]

definitely Django is prefered over Flask.
Because django is made that newbies to python can yield better (a bit cleaner) result.
and because django has everything flask has but more anyway / with more pleasant experience to database migrations

As long as u will use Django way of boilerplated things, without reinventing your own stuff, u will achieve better result in your case. / in terms of code / and security and etc

[surreal pasture]

Any project recommendations as I don't wanna get stuck in tutorial hell

[buoyant seal]

anything u fancy. i am of opinion that pet projects chosen should be very personal choice. it matters having high enthusiasm to work on it.
So it can be anything, as long as it is maximum fun to work on it

[surreal pasture]

I was thinking of making a chat app then make my friend use it (forcibly)

[hearty island]

jesus

the more i learn about project management, the more i realize how much of a mess my old company was. they didn't even use project charters or business cases to start work. they never declared if they were using waterfall or agile or both. all they ever used was progress slides and useless meetings.

not a single business analyst ever worked at the company too. what the fuck are they doing???

no project charter, no exit criteria, no product owner (which is fine if you're not doing agile), no administrative closure, no lessons learned....

no resource breakdown structure, no organizational breakdown structure, no work breakdown structure, no product backlog

i'm going to have to do some serious restructuring if i rejoin the company

[near ocean]

At some point too much bureaucracy becomes a problem itself

[hearty island]

no no i totally agree, but shouldn't there be at least some structure or processses?

[near ocean]

How big was the company

[hearty island]

the company had like 20 people in office and the rest in florida and some other spots in the US doing customer service/sales (i think like 100 or so)

it was a third party administrator in healthcare

it wasn't like it was lean/agile either

they didn't even create project scope statements either

and if there were bidders/vendors like when we did the telecommunications restructuring project...there was never a bidder conference where you recieve presentations from multiple bidders

[vapid jay]

anyone?

[hearty island]

nah dude

[hearty island]

i think i'm better off leaving for a bigger company with a PMO (project management office)

now i know how my mentor felt

[near ocean]

The startup i worked at did project management entirely via powerpoint and feeling

The only reason it worked is because they had an awesome eng team that carried everything

[hearty island]

not only that, but they kinda encouraged me to not get my CAPM. they said it would be useless, but i have a theory it's because they don't want me to get paid more for having one and actually having knowledge about project management

but i was genuinely useless before i actually started doing capm prep on my own this summer

[vapid jay]

aww mayne

[hearty island]

what are you even scraping?

[vapid jay]

idk what to scrape, idk what people want to buy

[hearty island]

cars? food? video games? makeup?

[vapid jay]

datasets of those?

[hearty island]

idk dude does kaggle have them?

[vapid jay]

p sure they do

[near ocean]

Scraping bad, go do something else, preferably without breaking ToS

[vapid jay]

what do

[hearty island]

idk dude build a pdf parser. that's a cool project.

[vapid jay]

a gazillion exist, nobodys gonna buy mine

[hearty island]

i was talking about it for your resume

[vapid jay]

im 13

[hearty island]

the chances of you making money from programming when you're 13 are close to none

[vapid jay]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[near ocean]

No one's buying anything a 13yo would make, go do your homework

[vapid jay]

shouldnt have mentioned that, alr whatever

[near ocean]

When did teens get so money hungry smh

[vapid jay]

geez im not that money hungry, its summer vacation and i thought i'd find something fun to do while making money

[hearty island]

go work as a cashier or do something fun with your friends. enjoy your life while you're young

[near ocean]

There're easier ways to make pocket money as a teen, ask for an allowance for chores, mow lawn, wash cars etc

[vapid jay]

but this is what i enjoy

[hearty island]

idk dude, but as mar is trying to say there are easier ways to make money and also it's hard to make money as a 13 year old from coding

[vapid jay]

i guess its worth a try, thanks anyway

[toxic fiber]

go to a self car wash, wait for someone to come and ask them if you can wash their car for them

[peak halo]

There are less condescending ways you could have said this.

[vapid jay]

i have never seen a car wash in my country lol, 13 year olds dont do jobs ehjre unless its like some child labour camp idk

[open cradle]

I have never tried these, but there are some portals oriented to making money while programming. The kind of challenge solving. But do not expect to get lots of money. Good luck!

[vapid jay]

nah im not looking for much, i'd be happy with anything lol. could you link some of these portals?

[open cradle]

I dont remember the names lol. I have seen that some teenagers in this portal were mentioning "replit" (I think this is more the kind of "fever"). For the solving challenges thing, I dont remember none. But I know there are. Focus on learning too! 🙂

[vapid jay]

kinda confused but thanks lol

[open cradle]

Here you have some: https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/how-to-earn-money-while-studying-in-college-through-coding/

Be aware that these are contest oriented. Here, it does not matter how old you are. However, only winners get money. So it will be hard for a person who is starting

Other options are selling code, but here, as other people said, they will take a lot into account that you are quite young.

[vapid jay]

oh contests, yeah im not familiar with too algorithmic stuff i just do backend and something webscraping for fun. thank you so much tho

[twilit escarp]

Hello

Nice to meet you

[hearty island]

hey

[restive summit]

Thanks 🙌

Got it thanks

[jolly echo]

13 is probably too young for a professional gig, contract or otherwise. What draws your interest, regardless of whether or not you think you can incorporate Python? Figure that out then find opportunities to grow your Python skills through unserved needs / wants related to your interests.

For example, when I was just getting started with Python, there wasn't much I could do w/o any experience through my employer so I turned to writing scripts to analyze stock market data, learning how to communicate with API's, Dataframes, etc...

[vapid jay]

yeah, i wasnt really looking for a professional gig. thankyou for the advice tho

[stray bluff]

Hi 👋

How can I improve my python skill and learn it like pro

[radiant moon]

write lots of code.

[fringe sphinx]

Learn something new today, write some code to use it. Repeat daily until professional.

[dreamy spade]

I am nervous about my first day at work as a junior programmer. Any advice?

[sleek egret]

show up on time

[celest kite]

When is your first day?

[frozen ibex]

i am a high schooler should i be learning python rn? or should finish my school first?

[fringe sphinx]

That's a very personal question, depending on what you want to do, what you're interested in, how much free time you have, etc. But: It's common for high schoolers to begin learning programming, and Python is the first language many/most people learn.

[frozen ibex]

okay ig i will jus learn it anyway 👍

[dreamy spade]

Monday

[hearty island]

you're going to do great! congrats on the job again!

[true harness]

make sure you don't crush your lunch by accident

[celest kite]

@dreamy spade just remember you're a junior and it's a learning experience. Don't pressure yourself to perfection. Know that you will make mistakes but the important thing is to learn from those mistakes

[fringe sphinx]

Take a lot of notes. Ask a lot of questions. Set reasonable expectations: "I'm a programmer, not a magician".

[near ocean]

First week is probably going to be "read these boring documents"

[fringe sphinx]

Oh, you probably don't remember Keezy's description of the job. It's probably not: there's probably no docs.

[near ocean]

Not documentation, legal stuff, employee handbook, etc

[fringe sphinx]

Wait, keezy was the one who was taking the "fix this api because our only dev quit" right? Right @dreamy spade ?

[true harness]

oh god so much mandatory training

[celest kite]

More like fired only dev because they couldn't fix the API

[near ocean]

At my first job standup for the first week was "reading through the employee handbook, and the same today"

[shadow finch]

hey
I am a new to programming

can I get a job only by mastering python and sql???

[near ocean]

Probably no

[shadow finch]

guide me knowww
Im little confused

[near ocean]

First, if you have to wait to master anything before getting a job youre going to end up in the streets hungry

[marsh wind]

probably yes, but it depends what you mean by "only" and depends on which country you are in, which background you have and etc

[fringe sphinx]

And, depends on what "master" means. Sure, if you're a core developer.

[near ocean]

I dont think those are paid? Doesnt psf only have one paid dev position, i guess those are C mainly anyway?

[fringe sphinx]

I meant, if you're that good, you can certainly get a job. (I meant it in a tongue in cheek: that's certainly not what OP meant)

[near ocean]

py + sql roles are usually data heavy, knowing just the two languages isnt going to get you far

[shadow finch]

should i learn other core languages like c++ or java?

[marsh wind]

it's not about the languages really

[shadow finch]

god, im soo confused, each one says different

[marsh wind]

not only, there are backend positions for sure, fastapi/django stuff.

[shadow finch]

i just started learning django

[fringe sphinx]

There are many types of developers. There's no simple answer to what you're asking, and it depends on your level of education, your education plans, and your interest.

[shadow finch]

what I need to learn to get into only full stack python developer? @fringe sphinx @marsh wind @near ocean

[marsh wind]

huh? Fullstack, in 95% means doing web dev, which means FrontEnd and majority of that is JS.

[shadow finch]

so I need to learn python and javascript right
to get into full stack development
like web apps right?

[marsh wind]

tbh, if you want to do fullstack web dev, you don't need python, you can get away with JS/TS

[silver jacinth]

scrapping data is nothing new and companies do it all the time, that's google's 2nd revenue stream with performing that after google analytics. No one will pay for scrapped data, only clean data if anything.

[shadow finch]

do you think full stack web dev will be replaced by AI? 💩

[silver jacinth]

hopefully everything will

we need ubi to get all those trash useless jobs gone

[marsh wind]

creating some simplistic things? perhaps. Replacing an actual software engineers? Not really

[silver jacinth]

the only limiting factor is the token context limit

something like starcoder can only do 8k, mpt7b can do 65k (in storywriter, so not coding).

gpt3.5 is 16k and gpt4 is 32k however recently openai limited them so its trash

[vapid jay]

Would I be able to ask for help with coming up with an example for a competency for a job interview in this channel?

[deft herald]

Sure

[vapid jay]

The criteria is You can explain the most important principles of a modern standards approach and how they apply to the work you are undertaking. You can apply these principles under guidance. – I feel like I do this, but I don't exactly know how to use a working example to prove it

[fringe sphinx]

What's a "modern standards approach"?

[vapid jay]

I guess that's kind of the core of the issue, they use this term that I'm not really familiar with. As far as I can understand, they want you to follow the development principles they layout, but it doesn't provide these principles.

[fringe sphinx]

First, classic engineering interview trap: Ask for clarification, don't just blindly go forth into a solution.

[marsh wind]

unless it's just straight from job listing and there's no one to ask 😁

[vapid jay]

this is the issue at hand, trying to at least prepare an example that I could adapt to the situation

[fringe sphinx]

Any answer must begin with your assumptions, and asking the interviewer to confirm that your assumptions are correct.

[marsh wind]

but if you have interview scheduled, you are always welcome to ask clarification from the future interviewer

[fringe sphinx]

and I agree with @marsh wind

[marsh wind]

to clarify - even before the actual interview happens, you can send an email or sometimes even call them (depends on how they do things)

generally inreviewer would even appreciate these kind of things - it shows that the candidate is interested and is doing their prep homework

[vapid jay]

What about individuals? They often need this stuff. Saw lots on upwork

[vapid jay]

thanks guys 🙂

[marsh wind]

possibly, but upwork's competition is rather brutal, it's probably not the best place for someone barely starting out, and especially someone so young, there's a high risk of not beeing taken seriously

[vapid jay]

I tried Upwork with my dads information and stuff. Its very very brutal dude

[marsh wind]

yep, my point exactly. Tbh, based on what I saw, the olny real way to make some money from those kind of skills at that age is through family or friends. For example, my mom was making websites for a client and also doing SEO and stuff, and they needed an add banner, and at the time I was somewhat interested by animation and learning now obsolete Adobe Flash... So I made couple of animated ads for her client

similar kind of things can work for you, if you have some family or close friends, who would have happened to have something they need to be done but not really high priority or not requring lots of skills etc

[vapid jay]

Yeah thats what I'm doing right now, just made $2 an hour go. Although I don't really mind the complexity of the project, I can do most things that are webscraping and backend 😎 😎

[marsh wind]

well, the complexity part is mostly about your "clients" confidence in your ability to do something. At least until you are able to build that confidence

[vapid jay]

Glotta wait a few more years then I guess, and thank you so much for the advice : P

[fringe sphinx]

<@&831776746206265384>

[azure heart]

!pban 826432562251431936 low effort spam

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @mental ember permanently.

[azure heart]

!pban 683233840030023712 spam

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @oblique dune permanently.

[tender wren]

!pban 826432562251431936 low effort spam

What does this command does??

[pine sleet]

Permanent ban

[azure heart]

pban specifically is "purge ban" so it clears their chat and bans

[tender wren]

But why, what did they do??

[azure heart]

They spammed irrelevant content

[tender wren]

Can someone share a roadmap to machine learning.
Also it would be helpful if you can share some ml based discord server ID's.

[buoyant seal]

1. https://github.com/Moataz-Elmesmary/Data-Science-Roadmap
   https://github.com/MrMimic/data-scientist-roadmap
2. https://github.com/mhxion/awesome-discord-communities#machine-learning

[pastel thunder]

an HR was talking so nicely, I actually let her low ball me

lmao, why do they ask for expected offer before interview

[fringe sphinx]

They do this for a living, they know all the tricks.

And it's fine. You can always counter later.

[pastel thunder]

i can increase what i agreed to before?

[fringe sphinx]

It's a really complex topic, but yes. The question is whether you should, whether it risks not getting the job, whether it's enough to matter, etc.

The best situation is with multiple offers in hand.

[sharp pelican]

Anyone here in anythign involving "robotic welding"? currently considering piviting into that job, and would like to talk to someone who does it.

[open cradle]

Oh, I misunderstood the message so I deleted my first answer. I am working in the high precision robotics field, but not welding tho

[pastel thunder]

Also, i want peoples' opinion on how to improve my github, where should i post it? without breaking the rules i mean

[fringe sphinx]

Like a code review? I think a help thread

[pastel thunder]

the whole github

[sharp pelican]

Mind if I PM you?

[fringe sphinx]

No idea, but I think the request would be on-topic in this channel, assuming your question was about related to interviewing / how your github looks as part of your portfolio /e tc.

[open cradle]

I am not sure if I will be able to help you, but sure, pm me

[rain brook]

Hello, everyone.
This is Brett, 26, software engineer.
Is there a way to find a new friend who have similar experience?
Thank you.

[celest kite]

Hi Brett, 26, software engineer. I'm not sure this is the appropriate channel for this

[thick slate]

Can data analytics be done as a second job? I am a physicist student and I want to be a researcher in biophysics but at the same time I want to specialize in data science and create a second income. How possible is this? Do you think it's impossible?

[fringe sphinx]

You want to work two full time jobs?

[smoky quest]

this seems like a stretch

[deft herald]

I was 26 once. Does that qualify for similar experience ?

[fringe sphinx]

I too would like to be paid for 3 jobs.

[rain brook]

Sure.

Can we connect on DM? @deft herald

[deft herald]

I think a good rule-of-thumb would be to have 1 full-time job at a time

[deft herald]

Nah, i'm happy to chat here or in another topical channel though

[rain brook]

No worries.

[fringe sphinx]

https://www.reddit.com/r/overemployed/ would like a word

[rain brook]

@deft herald
what is your strength?
and where are you located?

I am a React-Node guy.

[deft herald]

I'm in US. Colorado to be more precise. Since this is #career-advice , I can tell you that I work on test automation and development for 5G modem chipsets

[deft herald]

Where are you at? My team needs another react wiz (i'm not recruiting though 😉 )

[rain brook]

Cool, and thank you.
I located in Florida.

@deft herald
Could you let me know where can I check about your company and the open position?
Please feel free to give me a message.

[deft herald]

As i said, i'm not recruiting

...mostly because there is no open position, haha 😦 Unfortunately "my team needs" != "my team is actively looking for"

[celest kite]

Have you asked @fleet reef ?

[deft herald]

read dis

[celest kite]

Sounds like a skill issue

[deft herald]

What do you mean?

[fleet reef]

I am not sacrificing my soul to learn JS

[celest kite]

Meaning you haven't made a convincing enough argument to management to hire

[deft herald]

Nope. Purely budget driven

In a normal scenario we would have had a backfill position from someone who left. Those are temporarily halted though

At least i'm pretty sure it's still the case. Asking my overlords now

[thick slate]

I would like to work as a data analyst for a company while doing my research at the university.

[daring sphinx]

Turned down hard by a recruiter, where a friend working there had referred me, on grounds that I had Google Cloud expertise instead of AWS. All right, if you say so.

[thick slate]

I could not understand what you mean

[thick slate]

are you kidding me

[wraith kernel]

I'm 14 and I have this summer job where I am apart of a research group at the University of Delaware and the folks here are in the biomedical engineering and data analyst field. I've been here for about 2 weeks now and I've realized that I'm pretty interested in this area of learning and was wondering if this should be my career path, hence the reason I've come here. Just wondering if a job like this is in high demand and if it is a good salary for High-Middle Class - High class living.

[cinder fossil]

Unsure on biomed but data analysts can make a significant sum depending on what you go into. The folks at my company are making well into six figures so it can definitely be a comfortable figure if you get good enough at it

[lavish canopy]

6 figures after tax?

[cinder fossil]

yeah, GBP

[lavish canopy]

Are they also data analysts?

[cinder fossil]

I don't know for certain on all of them, but at least a few of them definitely do. The others are probably only six fig pretax but still comfy as hell for the UK

[lavish canopy]

Yeah still a lot

[deft herald]

Yeah i would think Biomed Engineering would be a pretty valueable skill. The great thing about engineering degrees is that they're like 85% overlap with each other so if you have an engineering degree in one field, you could still easily get hired in another field

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, and strong programming skills are valuable in every (?ish) engineering discipline

[deft herald]

Absolutely. I can't tell you how many MechE's i've worked with that try to program but don't have good fundamentals on it.

[split citrus]

How likely is it to receive an offer after an internship?

[fringe sphinx]

Who knows. Too many variables

But, if you want make, be sure to ask/make it clear that you’d like to come back.

Managers appreciate enthusiasm

[smoky quest]

it means it's unlikely

[split citrus]

Thank you!

[vestal hedge]

How to get into the Python space, getting clients etc..

I find it hard to actually find a job or even to know where to find projects to get paid for.

[smoky quest]

it depends on the job, your education, your skills, your experience, your location, etc.
Feel free to drop an anonymized version of your resume to provide more context

[vestal hedge]

part of my cv other things just personal info.

[true harness]

how are you going to be chosen for python projects if you don't have python mentioned anywhere on your resume

[smoky quest]

it's going to be tough

[vestal hedge]

i dont know what companies look for

[smoky quest]

They look for 👏 demonstrated 👏 skills 👏

[vestal hedge]

some say no experience but character

[smoky quest]

Here is why you will have troubles finding a job:

• Resumes are read top to bottom in the western world. So put the most important and recent stuff first
• You mention "computer science" in your education without specifying what degree
• Your projects have no sense of scale or impact. You would want projects closer to the desired jobs
• You have been to a "computer science" school but have had zero job related to it

Each job ad receives thousands of applications from people with degrees, great projects and internships. So you need to beat that average application to have a chance to stand out

[vestal hedge]

so basically a road to nothingness.

[smoky quest]

It's entirely up to you

[true harness]

if you don't want to change up your resume, then probably

[fringe sphinx]

Swap projects and jobs, if the jobs have nothing to do with CS. Add more info about projects: what you used/etc. Python, etc. technical skills is usually up top.

And maybe just collapse the courier jobs into one line from 2020-present. Where is not important, except that you’ve done something for a few years consistently.

[true harness]

ah. I just noticed you had an internship. I didn't notice at first because I read the first 3 jobs and skipped the rest..

why are your two projects the exact same?

[split citrus]

If I wanted to be a software engineer when I graduate but I took an electrical engineering internship does that kinda siloed me from future entry level jobs?

[true harness]

no

[split citrus]

Oh ok thank you. I was talking to some of my friends and they said that it might hurt me

[true harness]

@vestal hedge just in case you missed this

[jolly mantle]

How to form a career in ML without breaking the bank and earning a PhD

Do companies only accept data scientist with post graduate colleges?

[smoky quest]

it's the path of least resistance

[jolly mantle]

True

It's worth it? Probably my question really is

[split citrus]

What does that mean?

[jolly mantle]

Companies like to hire masteral data science degree holder

Than bs computer science

[true harness]

easiest way. "shortest path" in graph theory lingo

[jolly mantle]

You're gonna produce money from data and a bs computer science will not be enough

MSDS

[cinder fossil]

yeah for ML/DS a masters is highly recommended

I went to a top5 uni in the UK and I know of very few compsci bachelor's grads who got a successful offer in those fields, it's doable but haard without masters

but of course once you get in, experience is all that matters

[gilded valley]

many big UK companies have data science grad schemes - Sky, PA Consulting, some of the banks - many more have tech grad schemes which encompass data science.

these are very attainable without a masters.

[marsh wind]

Earning phd is not breaking a bank... It's accepting to earn minimal income for 3 years of suffering 😂

[gilded valley]

getting an offer is mostly just about a time commitment. do you apply to enough places, do you learn how to pass bullshit psychometric tests, do you know how to appear like a basically reasonable human being in a assessment center, did you spend a hour figuring out what a company does?

once you're employed, it's much easier to get interviews at iteratively better companies over the course of a few years

[marsh wind]

Don't take me wrong Btw it can be very much rewarding and good experience. But youll still suffer

[smoky quest]

it means it's the best combination of difficulty and rewards

There are other paths, but they will be either more difficult or have less reward (ie. salary, career, progression, etc.)

[fringe sphinx]

Me personally, I got my grad school in part time after getting my first SWE jobs.

[peak halo]

how many courses were there, and how many did you take at a time?

[fringe sphinx]

Hmm, I don't remember.. I think it took me 3 years for the masters. I just took 1 or 2 classes a semester (including summers), depending on what courses were available and schedules.

[minor raft]

Question, is Python coding a college course that gives you credentials required to get Python related jobs or can a self taught individual just "claim" they are good enough and back it up with skill

[fringe sphinx]

If you’re asking about college for software engineering: Software engineers usually have a bachelors degree in computer science (a four year degree).

There are certainly self taught engineers. But, if you’re asking whether a single Python course is enough for software engineering positions: in my opinion, probably not…. But there are exceptions (but require a lot of hard work and perseverance and starting with lower level jobs)

[minor raft]

i just wanna pick up Python as a hobby and mess around, i dont understand the full extent/capacity it has to offer but im looking for recommendations for creators that have made digestible guides that break down all the commands for the language and how to structure it

[fringe sphinx]

!resources has a few suggestions here

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[smoky quest]

picking it up as a hobby is very different from looking for a career

[minor raft]

yea just askin around to get info and opinions, i like making gadgets and my electronics skills can only work with "on" and off" rnow so adding more conditions will prolly mean i need to start the learning journey of coding stuff

like the door lock from spiderman

[smoky quest]

yeah and that looks pretty cool!
If you are in HS or college age, a degree will be the path of least resistance with the most opportunities and compensation. It will also open your mind to things you didn't even know exist or didn't even know you can do

[minor raft]

exciting! thanks

[vapid jay]

yes

[wanton birch]

can someone please hook me up with some good websites for cv making and templates

[azure cobalt]

novoresume is a good one

[vestal hedge]

Oh forgot to change description

[vestal hedge]

Sadly school is nothing for me anymore.

[vestal hedge]

You need experience to work they say. While iam applying sadly these were to the jobs i could do. Sometimes employer says why i choose this career path. Iam like bro i dont choose thise but bills gotta be paid.

[main ledge]

the job market rn is bad isnt

[open cradle]

I have met many people that chose a job only as a way to pay bills. Every day is boring and not motivating to them. Learning is not encouraging. I think it is important to find this balance between paying bills and doing something you enjoy

[vestal hedge]

thats what iam saying it was only a part time job

[true harness]

so they should not be at the top of your resume. at the top means you want to emphasize it

[fringe sphinx]

I didn’t say to remove it, but to move it lower. The top third of your resume is a courier job. That’s mostly irrelevant to landing a programmer/SWE position. Your skills, and projects are very relevant though. And, your education: put most recent first, and state if you have a degree: unclear from what I’m reading.

[vestal hedge]

like this?

[fringe sphinx]

Yes, that looks much better to me! Swap your education: most recent should be first, same with projects.

[near ocean]

Implemented game mechanics
Not a good bullet point, what does it mean

[fringe sphinx]

In your internship, and projects, say something about what language and tools you used. Python? Etc

[sage night]

Next year is my last year in my computer science degree and my company I work for now (in a non-programming role) has an intern position i'm thinking about it. One year of full time interning (i would have to defer my study) for full time graduate software eng pay in my country. This sound like a good career move? I've been referred for it so I have a good chance of getting it, just wondering if I should finish my undergrad first.

[fringe sphinx]

What’s the intern role/title?

[sage night]

Intern Software Developer

[fringe sphinx]

In this market, a lot of people are having a hard time finding intern and junior positions. I think the intern option is a great idea even if it delays your graduation. And, perhaps you can take some courses part time (evening?)

[sage night]

Would that year of exprience make the difference though? I've seen people online saying one year experience is basically still a new grad

[fringe sphinx]

In the us, some (very good) colleges even have 5 year co-op programs, which is basically that: an extra year of work experience

[fringe sphinx]

One year experience will give you more and better options than zero experience. In other words, you’ll likely land a better job, for more $$.

[sage night]

I feel like a really weak programmer so a year of programming experience would be helpful in making me feel a lot more confident in my abilities (not to mention improving them a lot). I get pretty anxious at the thought of being employed to program, like i'm not good enough etc

I'll put in my application and see how I go, my thinking was just the one year of interning wouldn't change much for me career wise

[fringe sphinx]

That’s very healthy: of course you’re a weak programmer, you have no experience. That’s exactly what we’d expect from an intern. Lots of engineers feel anxious or imposter syndrome thinking that they need to know everything/etc: you don’t, you just need to be willing to learn.

[sage night]

thank you I appreciate that thought. Do you know what kind of technical questions they ask interns at interviews? Is it like leetcode easy stuff or more simple stuff, like can you describe these concepts etc? I think I remember you saying you were involved with hiring is why I ask.

[fringe sphinx]

For intern roles, I don’t know if there’s a typical. Maybe a programming/whiteboard/fiz buzz style question (like a leetcode easy), I just want to know that they know the basics: I don’t want to teach a new hire Python (for instance). I usually don’t care if they get the question right; it’s that they can explain themselves and show some basic understanding of programming.

One suggestion I heard from another manager was; practice getting questions wrong

In other words; if you get a leetcode hard question that you can’t solve on the spot, practice working through it and showing your thought process.

[sage night]

thanks again thats really good advice, i might be stun locked if I get asked something I have no idea about at an interview but i'll practice working through it

[fringe sphinx]

Yes, exactly that (don’t get stun locked)!

[thick slate]

why is that?

[cinder fossil]

what are your in-person obligations at the moment?

having multiple fulltime jobs is exceptionally tricky unless they can be fully remote/flexible working hours

[vestal hedge]

It means the game mechanics in the game. So i guess you have to play it and then understand that in have implemented the gameplay.

[true harness]

no one has time to do that, so it's up to you to explain why they are interesting enough to write a bullet point about

[vestal hedge]

I hope atleast if the employer is interterest he will peak at my portfolio.

Nobody has time these days lol.

[true harness]

i'm not sure what you're saying there

[hearty island]

what's interesting about the game? is there some feature that you personally think employers are interested in?

[vestal hedge]

Well always try to focus on one mechanic i guess incan put it there.

[hearty island]

wdym by that?

[true harness]

how are they going to be interested by "my game has game mechanics"? doesn't every game have game mechanics?

if you look at any software engineer resume template, you'll see that the projects have bullet points that describe specifically what they did, and why it's impactful or interesting

[hearty island]

demonstrated skills - that's what i've learned the most from this specific channel

[thick slate]

I am second year student of Physics now. I really love my research area which is biophysics and probably in the future I will be working in a lab. Maybe I can be very busy in the future because of this condition but I know that I am very interested in data science, maybe I can apply it to my field, but I can be more flexible in data science. I don't know how possible it is to do both. If there is such a possibility, I want to develop myself more in python and I would love to create additional income.

[near ocean]

How do I complain to my line manager about higher management and other technical directors being clueless

[fringe sphinx]

And water is wet?

[near ocean]

I cant think of a way that doesnt make me sound petty or newbie

Honestly, my manager is getting shafted and its just terrible to witness

But also, what can they even do in this situation

[fringe sphinx]

I hate to say it, but, yah... I don't advise it. Nothing good comes of it.

I once complained to my manager about a peer manager. And my manager told the other manager.

[near ocean]

Yikes, yea i definitely need to not overshare but we're getting ambushed with surprise tickets and tight deadlines and it exposes our manager and the entire team

[fringe sphinx]

tbh, sounds like your manager might be the problem.

[near ocean]

Its not just him, other people on his level are left in the dark

I was talking to other team leads and they have the same issue with info not being delivered down the chain
I like this job and i'd rather stick around some more lol, the hunt is hard

[fringe sphinx]

Yah, I get it... all the manager can do is push back a little or ask for some process improvements, but "managing up" is a tough skill and sometimes impossible.

But, perhaps you can get your point across constructively, like: "Hey, we're getting killed out here, they don't realize what's happening, etc... can we do x,y,z to get more information / reprioritize /e tc"

but that's fairly generic stuff, I feel ya

[sage night]

On my resume I don't have very much space. Would it be worthwhile to remove a previous job from my work exprience section (supermarket - so unrelated to soft eng) to fit a third project?

[true harness]

maybe, i would keep at least 1 work experience, though. send your resume?

[deft herald]

absolutely IMO

"should i remove non relevant information to make room for relevant information?" Yes

[deft herald]

There is a lot of whitespace there

[sage night]

i got told before when i made it more cramped by someone that is way too much and no one was gonna read it

[deft herald]

I see

[silver jacinth]

https://str.sg/iwaS

[sage night]

considering im a student I also have received advice before that any job experience can be considered for your first jobs in soft eng (bc i have no experience)

[silver jacinth]

Good news for new startups. Hopefully this trend gains traction, meaning more employed people can negate the rates for office space

[hearty island]

two columns 🤔

[true harness]

• why are the links so big and bold
• you should use a single column layout. it would minimize whitespace (see all that unused space under the skills column) as well as make it easier for ATS to parse
• i would remove the older work experience
• your IT work experience might be relevant
• your projects need to have more detail. "efficient hangling of large datasets" says nothing; how large data? how efficient? what did you use? what did it accomplish? likewise, for your other project, you mention "real-world problems", but the only problem mentioned is towers of hanoi, which is definitely not a real world problem

[true harness]

yeah. you can show up on time and interact with your teammates

[sage night]

only work exprience you would keep is the current IT one?

[true harness]

probably. you said you have more projects, right? i would also expand on your IT experience, it's probably relevant

[sage night]

its just troubleshooting stuff. Would you put that above the projects if you think its relevant?

[true harness]

¯_(ツ)_/¯ if you can spin it in a way that demonstrates your skills better than projects, yes

[cloud ledge]

Hi, what is tthat?

[sage night]

alright, thanks

[cloud ledge]

what is the way?

[true harness]

i'm not sure what you're talking about

[cloud ledge]

how to demonstrate my skill in some way!

I mean what someway is?

[true harness]

projects, work experience, education

[cloud ledge]

COOL

you are student or deveoloper?

[true harness]

i can't be both?

[cloud ledge]

then, what do you do?

why do you reject add friend

[true harness]

don't you think we're moving a little too fast? we just met! i would say i'm both a student and developer

[cloud ledge]

If you think so, sorry for my rude behavior

I am too python and natural language developer

and Web and Blockchain too!

so, can you interrupt the audio or video api in zoom/microsoft team?

[hearty island]

interrupt?

[cloud ledge]

yeah

I mean control.

[near ocean]

What does that mean and is it careers related

[cloud ledge]

Technical is not related with career

[deft herald]

We're in #career-advice just FYI

[cloud ledge]

okay!

so, could you please explain what does mean:FYI?

[robust island]

"For your information"

[dreamy spade]

How did everybody feel when they started their first day at work as a developer?

[near ocean]

Tired, had to read through legal docs all day and struggle with getting permissions to stuff

[true harness]

bored. orientation. mandatory training

[deft herald]

Yeah. I also remember thinking "I can't wait till i actually get my computer and can start doing things" and "it's cold in this lab"

[deft herald]

struggle with getting permissions to stuff
This is the worst part about starting a new job. "Someone just give me a list of email lists i need to join dammit"

[pastel thunder]

i got shortlisted for resume editing job lmao.

didnt apply, i guess recruiter was looking for good looking resumes

i guess i am at the right track, but not the very right one

[vapid jay]

Hi everyone i am looking for a developer that can do a project for me ,i can pay up to 100$ dm me

[deft herald]

Lol. "Hey you have a good resume, why don't you come write resumes for us?"

[deft herald]

!rule 9

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[vapid jay]

o i cant

[pastel thunder]

Billy Bobby helped me write it, lol

[vapid jay]

sorry guys

[pastel thunder]

and many others

[hearty island]

y'all are incredible at writing resumes. much more than my career center.

[fringe sphinx]

There you go, get a job writing resumes, but instead of writing them, post them here 🙂

[true harness]

it's called "distributed computing"

[sage night]

okay I took some of the feedback and redid my resume. anything else I should consider changing?

[hearty island]

i’m not sure how well ATS parses this with two columns. bullet points need to be more indicative of what your impacts were imo

[true harness]

why another 2 column template ?

[hearty island]

and idk if this resume needs color at all? why not stick with black and white?

where are you getting these templates from btw?

[sage night]

i find it kind of hard to list impacts when im basically just a troubleshooter - my impact was like got programs working for users?

[hearty island]

ok. how many programs?

[sage night]

All the templates im finding are just two columns for some reason

[fringe sphinx]

Unless you’re applying for an IT job, I would say less, not more. 8 bullets for one job is a lot

[true harness]

try looking up "awesome cv"

i think the technical communication bullet is pretty good, and maybe one more. also, kinda weird to list your team leader ?

[sage night]

I thought i'd include a referee? like they can call and ask about my previous job if they wanted to?

[sage night]

how many would you say? I thought it might be useful to talk up the job a bit since it has same vauge relation to programming

[fringe sphinx]

3 is normal.

[true harness]

3 what? edit: I see, bullets

[sage night]

so shorten my IT job description, do you think I have to redo it to a one column template/anything else you'd change?

[fringe sphinx]

One column is normal, if you’re feeling like it’s a little light, maybe list a couple of the interesting classes you’ve taken under education

[true harness]

you're wasting so much space with 2 columns. look at all the whitespace under the second column

[sage night]

so should I not inlcude my current boss's contact?

[smoky quest]

Two different jobs.
DS type of things typically hire people with a masters related to it
And then there is the schedule of doing multiple full time jobs, which is frown upon and not sustainable

[sleek egret]

most companies will fire you if they find out

[neon cairn]

Hello
I am an experienced software developer with over 8+ years of professional experience.
I've been working on enterprise and startup projects.
My expertise lies in delivering complex web-based applications.
I am also passionate about building high-quality product and staying up-to-date on latest technologies.
My passion for software development makes me an valuable asset to any organization.
All I want is only chance.

You can check my personal website here.
https://aspiringmiracle.netlify.app/

[open cradle]

I thought GPA marks were supposed to be till 4.0 max

[sage night]

australia gpa is out of 7, for some reason

[open cradle]

This ATS and the two column things was being said back in 2014, almost more than ten years ago. Now things are way smarter. And about the color, why not adding one? I think it makes the CV much less boring

[open cradle]

Oh, I had no idea hahaah

[hearty island]

how well does it parse on workday?

[harsh river]

i think your projects don't give any meaninful insight, you're expected to know most of those things

[open cradle]

My CV has two columns and colors and everything was parsed correctly

[open cradle]

From people with not that much experience, instead of having half of the CV blank, they show some interest about the field (rather than huge skills)

[sage night]

I get that, i just don't have good projects and am a student in my second year right now so I don't have a whole lot to write

[true harness]

yeah i think the 2 column ATS thing is not that big of a deal, i think. but why not try to maximize the chance it gets parsed correctly? i don't really think color matters, the main thing is the amount of wasted space

[harsh river]

that makes sense, i suggest to take on more complex projects that can show off your skills in a better way

[open cradle]

I think once a minimum format is ensured for ATS, you can work on the impact it makes at first sight, specially for HR people

But I know that US is known for simpler CVs and not complex formats. It is also a cultural thing

[smoky quest]

it's just dumb pdf parsing.
Isolating paragraphs and chunks is still problematic

[unreal turtle]

yall think its worth it to attend a quant neworking event?

[fringe sphinx]

Do you like finance / want to be a quant?

[unreal turtle]

ye, but if it doesnt get me the interview. whats the point?

[fringe sphinx]

Does it have a non-zero chance of getting you an interview, and do you have anything better to do that evening?

(what's the opportunity cost?)

[unreal turtle]

yeah leetcoding to pass my faang interviews

[fringe sphinx]

So a few hours is going to impact your grinding? You're probably grinding too much 🙂

[unreal turtle]

but its only from 6 to 8 though, so idk

[unreal turtle]

im an incoming senior, is it still worth it? i feel like im too old. but they said all years can attend

[fringe sphinx]

Why are you trying to talk yourself out of networking?

[unreal turtle]

cause interview prepping is more important

this is with jane street though

[gilded valley]

why are you trying to talk him into it?

[unreal turtle]

it could be a nice break from studying though

[coral fern]

Hey guys, I'm a sophomore at university, well I can say I'm already a 3rd year student, I've worked a lot with python used it for school projects like for clustering algorithms, data vizualisation, various simulations like speed detection for cars, liquid detection so on and so on, I'm pretty familiar with it but i do not have much experience software engineering wise, what advice would you give me what to learn, or from where to learn

I think i should learn python in depth and stick to it, but i lack experience and knowledge about system designs for example or how to build software, if you know any roadmaps to follow i'd be more than happy to hear 😆

[sour tartan]

it sounds like you've done a good job. Keep making projects that interest you, and learn what you need to finish them.

[coral fern]

I'm planning to do that definitely but I'm kinda worried a bit 😀 I sent tons of applications to different companies and lots of them responded that i do not have relative experience in this field, I used to work as a game developer when i was junior in uni but quit it after 1 year, I feel like barrier is too high for junior level positions

I'm planning to create django web projects and fill my portfolio, like if you have any advice that will get me noticed or save me time please tell me xD

[gilded valley]

where in the world are you? What's your resume like?

[coral fern]

😆 the thing is

[smoky quest]

• to learn more about it?
• not everything has to be that transactional?
• It's a good opportunity to learn about other or adjacent things?

[open cradle]

I feel you. Junior tier is quite painful. It also depends on how lucky you are

[coral fern]

I live in Georgia, in eastern Europe, it's a small country and there aren't many companies which hire juniors like me, every position on linked in is for seniors, and getting hired abroad is even more complicated i think

[unreal turtle]

isnt that what the internet is for?

[smoky quest]

no

[gilded valley]

ah yeah. Somewhere like Georgia is definitely going to be very different to the rest of the world, I at least don't have anything to suggest.

the job market for junior positions is very localised.

one thing I can suggest is trying to apply to a EU firms and hope for a visa sponsorship

[unreal turtle]

i can just search whatever i want up, why waste time to go to a networking event, chatgpt is there to solve all my concerns

[gilded valley]

then why ask the question?

[smoky quest]

Do you know what to watch? Do you already know the things you don't know exist?

Do you already have access to experienced folks working at jane street?

[fringe sphinx]

Networking is important to anyones career.

[open cradle]

Building social skills and meeting people that might be related to your field is something that cannot be done in chatgpt

[unreal turtle]

ye through discord/linkedin

[coral fern]

Isn't there a platform maybe for startup teams which hire juniors? I'd really like to gain some experience somehow

[smoky quest]

then yeah. If you target is jane street and you already know the right folks there, then go talk to them instead

[unreal turtle]

so talk to them through the networking event? (jane street is my dream company btw)

[open cradle]

I would suggest combining searching through portals like glassdoor and linkedin + searching for company websites. There are keywords in linkedin that allow you to filter out many jobs. Learning them was useful to me

[smoky quest]

and see how you would vibe with them

[gilded valley]

I don't know about for startups specifically - but there are a bunch of platforms targeting graduates and students looking for internships (in the UK, I know of: Gradcracker, Milkround, ratemyplacement). Then sites like LinkedIn will have postings for inernships and fresh graduates.

I would just suggest spamming out applications to big companies, even if their ads say "must have <country> citizenship"

[unreal turtle]

will that give me phone?

[gilded valley]

you will end up wasting some time if you do it that way, but you might get lucky - of course, this is assuming you're willing to go abroad

[coral fern]

Sure, I'd be more than happy to go abroad

[gilded valley]

then yeah, my advice is to apply to big companies which are at least capable of sponsoring visas (even if they say they don't want to) and hope they're willing to.

I did an internship at a megacorp, and they sponsored some visas despite the job ads saying they wouldn't

[open cradle]

Good luck with it 💪
I emigrated 3 times, but since it was mainly within Europe there were no big restrictions regarding Visa. So I dont think I can help you there

[gilded valley]

UK and EU are definitely where you want to be applying - there's annoying hurdles, but it's still much much easier than the US

[gilded valley]

100% - but the initial question was low effort, the follow up questions/responses were low effort

[coral fern]

I'm also curious what should i put in my CV

[gilded valley]

the question boiled down to "should I do this thing which is pointless". There was no real attempt to engage

[coral fern]

Currently my cv is quite a mess i can tell as it's not specific, contains all the projects i've worked on is that a good idea?

[gilded valley]

in rough order of priority:

• relevant skills
• relevant experience (the game dev job)
• projects
• university courses (pick a few relevant units)
• university grades

Just follow all the generic student CV advice. You can also post it here for specific feedback

[coral fern]

Okay, thank you so much for your advice

😆 😆 I'll do my best, i hope everything will work out

[uncut nexus]

Hey everyone, if anyone has some time, i would love if they can give any kind on feedback on my CV

[fringe sphinx]

Just post it, people will review!

[uncut nexus]

I posted
The file gone

[fringe sphinx]

I don't know why, but if you scroll up, you'll see other resumes posted.

[gilded valley]

need to post it as a screenshot. the mods disallow PDFs

[uncut nexus]

Yes i am doing so

[uncut nexus]

the headings are actually links.. but not in png 🥲

[true harness]

you should look up popular resume templates and model your resume after them

[uncut nexus]

this is my new one, i had the "template" one before

i would like to know whats wrong/bad with this one

[fringe sphinx]

The template is a bit harsh on the eyes, but I'll let other people comment on that

You could work on the grammar for the Experience bullets, they're a bit awkward. I'd also take the word "freelancing" off, just say: Experience. I like that you list the tools/technologies in your projects & experience, that's the first thing I look for.

Should probably list expected date of graduation.

[uncut nexus]

ahhh i forgot 🥹

[fringe sphinx]

And, only list your social media if it's "clean": a lot of candidates have very questionable social media presences.

[uncut nexus]

it is very clean

[uncut nexus]

noted

[uncut nexus]

by harsh you mean hard to read or puts stress on the eyes ?

[fringe sphinx]

It's a good resume though, from a substance perspective. This would pass my first filter.

[uncut nexus]

reason i put freelance is because of the location of the work

[fringe sphinx]

The colors put stress on the eyes. Maybe just cause I'm old, but in a few decades, you won't appreciate it either 🙂

[uncut nexus]

i will tone it down

[fringe sphinx]

A lot of people hate two column layouts, and will point out the difficulty in parsing them. I/we don't use an ATS, so it's less of a concern for me (but I'm in small tech)

[uncut nexus]

well i tested on some ( u know the "autofill" by resume ) it works for most generally

[fringe sphinx]

Also, don't feel that you need to oversell what you did. Your first job was only 3 months, nobody is expecting you to have developed an entire system in 3 months/etc.

[glossy summit]

Hello, I am writing this message here cause I have absolutely no idea where else I can write this. I sure do know that I cannot say this face to face to someone. I am about to enter my third year of B.Tech CSE DS specialization and I am feeling horrible right now. I took this degree cause my finance course interview bombed me and my family literally fed me this course and now they that it was my choice when I acutally didn't want to. My peers are either exceptional or just as knowledgeable as me but has gotten JOBS, even remote high paying ones for knowing literraly nothing, they are imposter coders really. No competitive progamming gods- they can't even tell simple DSA answers surely can't code them, no github gardners watering their logs- completely dark logs, and now I feel trash cause I can't even find an internship at a horrible place even though I am offering to work for free. Not even by freelancing. I am learning rust right now cause its hype, will for my parents sake learn any horrid language or tool but one want to guide me, those who wants to can't find time or don't know enough. I don't even remember basic syntax or like the dozen so language I have tried studying. What hurts me even more is that some people are seriously pursuing this degree with a calmer attitude than me and have planned there future ahead while I took DS cause I thought it's freakin COOL. I can't get out of this hellhole. I am breaking hard right now. Someone please reach out to me. I am a hostler and my college is very remote. I don't find it in me to go for college placements, they offer horrible packages and have insane competition, Those off campus topper turds are also aiming for those just for funand I am 100% sure I am not getting anything from there and don't want to. Please

Looking for mentorship, internship, low/no paid job. Please take me in

[uncut nexus]

i did make a system tho ,
website + discord + Outlook, but it may look like im trying to "fake" it,
so should i just list what the project was about instead ?

[fringe sphinx]

I think the idea is right, you're saying what you did. Maybe just try rephrasing a bit.

[uncut nexus]

do u have a github acc with something to show ?
or how are your CP skils ?
i am also doing cse ds, from a not so good college at that, but giving up and becoming hopeless will not get you anything
there is gsoc comming up next year

linkedin is a good place to find low level entry jobs

[glossy summit]

I have people here doing and winning gsoc since high school and its pressuring me evn more

[uncut nexus]

why ? u are doing this for yourself not them ?

[smoky quest]

No one will be attracted to desperate people.

So:

• Take it as a problem to solve
• Don't send off desperate vibes
• Blaming others for your problem isn't the way to go
• Post your anonymized resume for feedback since you are looking for internships

[glossy summit]

linkedin cold emailing is a firepit, 99% dont reply back

[uncut nexus]

depends on the email
what you showcase them
why you want the job
what projects you hae make

[smoky quest]

that would point at a problem with the resume

[glossy summit]

you wont imagine what i have been though , i cant say much over keyboard

[uncut nexus]

why do u think so ? everyone was at the valley of disrepair at one point

[glossy summit]

you want to see my resume? I will show you. I have put so much fake skills in it but then also it's completely horrible

[smoky quest]

don't lie on your resume

[true harness]

maybe that's why they don't respond

[uncut nexus]

that the problem no ?

[glossy summit]

I have been there many times but this time I am feeling immense pressure

[uncut nexus]

u think this is 2000 ? lol recruiters know quite a bit of tech

as i said show me the projects you have made, any project

[glossy summit]

yet they dont even contact me after seeing that.

[uncut nexus]

would you ?

[smoky quest]

you are looking for your ONE interview.
The interviewers have talked to THOUSANDS of applicants. They see your lies a mile away

The best policy is to have an awesome resume you can be proud of

[uncut nexus]

mile is an understatement, it gets filtered before it reaches them

[glossy summit]

wait, I am on 15 sec slowmode i will post my github and resume here. My gihtub is trash I know

[uncut nexus]

CONFIDENCE is also A VERY IMPORTANT ASPECT

[uncut nexus]

here is mine... it took time to make it... everything is real.. i still dont have a job offer because the market sucks... but because i know everything here is real.. i will get one sooner or later

[glossy summit]

How can I have a proud resume when I cant find internships, jobs to fill them?

[uncut nexus]

PROJECTS 🙂

pls post a pic 🙂

[glossy summit]

wait was posting pdf it dfailed

[uncut nexus]

pdf are not allowed

[fringe sphinx]

I don't have much to say constructively, other than: you're not alone. If you're feeling deep despair, talk to someone. This is an extremely tough job market for entry level / junior positions, the toughest it has been in a long time.

[glossy summit]

who? I cant find

[uncut nexus]

us ?

[uncut nexus]

when do u think the market will normalize ?

[fringe sphinx]

There were a lot of layoffs early this year, but as far as I can tell, that's subsided... and as fears of a crash and major recession go away, companies will start filling things in.

[harsh river]

(i use arch btw) dunno if that's professional

[uncut nexus]

depends on the person looking at it ?

[uncut nexus]

u already have material tho ?
why not use a good template

here the one i used for quite a while
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QcZgLCcauW2k1cIC9JcGQFAIfrszyIE2/edit

ty to Jobby McJobface

[glossy summit]

My club and societiey works was horrible, never learned anything, never did anything useful, never made new freind, no guidance from teachers or students. The chatbot was made from scrapped code here and there and a friend made it functional, the work experiance is also boring as hell, did teach me that I NEED MENTORSHIP TO LEARN anything USEFULL, but didnt teach me anything carrer useful like my peers. heck it isnt even a coding one. just make ppt and word file and stuff. my github - https://github.com/SofTarg8

I use resume rx

I am sure the looks arnt the point

[uncut nexus]

from my experience i think skills after a certain point and upto a certain point are meant to be learned by ourselves

[uncut nexus]

they are.... do u think anyone has time to actually read you resume,, one look thats all u get

[glossy summit]

I havn't reached that point bro trust me. I at times even forget how to rite hello world even though I code atleast 2-3 times a week. I have now started codeforces since yesterday from easiest ones but I am afraid again. fearing is eating me.

[uncut nexus]

this is from my very very little exposure to that side of the tech ( that too in india )

[fringe sphinx]

If you hang out in this discord, you'll hear someone say that once a day. Fear, imposter syndrome, etc are very common. I can't help you with that, just tell you that you're in good company.

[glossy summit]

I know they get hundreds of thousands resume from the smallest to the smallest of companies

[glossy summit]

Well this feels like cold pity at this point. I really need help, I know I can achieve somehint, anything, if I have someone just telling me yes or no, Chatgpt has done enoughntherapy for me. I NEED A HUMAN

[uncut nexus]

you need to sit and work on yourself... why are you chasing validation when you are still in college

are you in a financially tough spot ? so much so u NEED to get a job

[glossy summit]

peer pressure is torturing me. I want to prove myself to myself. I am loosing my own confidence, my pocket oney is jack as well, i feel embarassed evry time I ask for money for snacks and my family's financial condition isnt the best now but def not ina tough spot with me being the second child.

[uncut nexus]

then dont think about it, loose you ego, and learn

dont wait for anyone to come to you and teach you

if u want i can share udemy course with you but in the end YOU need to DO it YOURSLEF, we can only help you when u get stuck

[glossy summit]

One of the reasons I wish to move out of college dorms i peer pressure but my family is stern on this. I can't learn, I need a friend to learn mwith me, to answer me, to ask me, to tell me that I have made progress, so that that I dontkeep thing by myself and go back to a spiral of depression once again

[glossy summit]

I have coursera courses and they have taught me zilch, I don't get them. they arnt different from yt or freecodecamp or thousand other such

[uncut nexus]

this server has 370k users in it im sure a few will help in #1035199133436354600 everytime u ask

[glossy summit]

chatgpt is available 24/7 i swear i see not much difference

[uncut nexus]

chat gpt is a fools errand

there is a reson why you learn when you talk about something

there are a lot of students like you in my college too, fearing about things they cant control but not improving the things they can

[sleek egret]

learning programming by reading and talking about it is like learningn to play guitar by reading and talking about it. iow, it doesn't work.

you have to write and debug code. a lot of code. repeatedly.

[glossy summit]

where can i find such projects? I want o find work, I am too free, empty, might as well become a poet or end up in a self help group trying to, cause I cant find any

[uncut nexus]

github

[glossy summit]

2 years I still dont get other people multi doc codes

hell i cant even understand stuff i write at times. memory, garbage collector, heap, whatever, i dont

[uncut nexus]

what are u interested in ?

[glossy summit]

I still dont know...

[uncut nexus]

because those are complex topics

[uncut nexus]

how are you in python and html ?

[glossy summit]

I can learn python, I copy paste everyday on ds class, I am interested in cpp and rust since the previous year, I am also interesting in api building as well as linux, sde

I want to progam something that can work, not just compile

[uncut nexus]

then you already have a lot to do ?

[glossy summit]

but I have classes that are completely different to this

[uncut nexus]

have you completed the rust book ?

[glossy summit]

No I am doing it while doing codeforces , I do a code in cpp then redo it in rust

[uncut nexus]

then you have opportunity to learn two things

[glossy summit]

but mostly its still copy paste and steal...

[uncut nexus]

why do u do so ? when i used to do CP, i gave a problme max 30 mins

then look at the editorial, as soon as i got an insight, i wrote it in code

[glossy summit]

And skills like cloud, api building full stack js are still untouched...

[glossy summit]

like i am not saying in logic, I can easily find logics and approaaches, I just donw know how to approach it in code and the dsa tricks

[uncut nexus]

all in due time, why are trying to do everything at once

[uncut nexus]

time and practice

[glossy summit]

cause I am confused, and unguided, that why I am looking for help

I also want to earn anything, go places like my classmates.

[uncut nexus]

ok tell me what u wanna do rn ?

• cpp
• rust
• dsa and cp ?

[glossy summit]

api, cloud, blockchain, ai, web dev since I have never tried anything fully, I dont know If I really want to pursue it

[uncut nexus]

i see so this is the problem... comparision

[glossy summit]

YES and I can't help but make it since I am not brilliant

[uncut nexus]

compare yourself only to your previous self

[glossy summit]

I try... it led me here, rethinking why I am still alive

[uncut nexus]

as long as you are learning new things it does not matter

[uncut nexus]

you are alive because you are a human being with infinite potential

u have time and energy to bring it out, but you are putting it at wrong places

let me ask you a question,
do u get fed up and then one day decide that, i need to change and then try to change how everything is done in your day to day ?

[glossy summit]

Thanks kind stranger, I really felt crying today after seeing those profiles. I know most of the time people want to help but have no time and sometimes odds are just against you.

[glossy summit]

I did thats why I started codeforces and leetcode but I am sure someday in the near future I wont be able to keep doing it due to doubt and again, like gym

[uncut nexus]

dont 🗿

changes are meant to trickle down not overflow

[glossy summit]

Hard to practise that thought. How many can?

[uncut nexus]

i am a student like you... from a worse college... worse place.. worse resources than you ... thats why i can understand

[uncut nexus]

change one aspect, then slowly (15 days minimum) start changing other

[glossy summit]

Bro hurts more when I am from a college with more resources yet cant use them, because people then I am not worthy

[uncut nexus]

then use them simple 🙂 no one is stopping u