career-advice

[cedar dragon]

people always recommand to start a project that you enjoy, (byw Me and python has issue)

[fierce nexus]

well, fun fact, I really like new things, is like, I LOVE LEARNING HARD STUFF

[delicate bane]

you can also work on personal projects outside of school. then you can put those on your resume when you apply to internships

[fierce nexus]

That's what I've been doing, a lot of projects

[summer roost]

well, sounds like biology doesn't come easily to you. Be thankful you've got extra time to spend on biology this semester. 🙂

[fierce nexus]

wanna see my repository, like I started a month ago

[delicate bane]

its okay. im good. thanks though

[fierce nexus]

Well, that's a good point

[cedar dragon]

I'm looking for network internship, system admin or database admin because i'm not good with programming

[smoky quest]

it's a recurring problem. But there isn't a solution. It tends to get better as they finish covering the basics and everyone get to the interesting stuff.

[fierce nexus]

so Ig is about waiting

[delicate bane]

ok. you can still do a project like setting up a home lab, standing up a database properly with backups, etc.

[cedar dragon]

My only issue with college/university is that you are taking too many courses like 3 to 5 course per semester and you likely forgot what you learn by the next semester unless you like topic like web dev

[smoky quest]

practicing helps a lot with remembering it

[summer roost]

If you find that you do a poor job of retaining material, you may need to rethink the way you study.

[delicate bane]

learning how to learn by barbara oakley <— highly recommend

[cedar dragon]

shit, I got my associates/transfer, I am relearning my pervious materials i got right now and doing practice test online. If i look a text book or powerpoints, i know very well but memorized is my issue

[cedar dragon]

ill check it out, i planned to review old material before i graduated

my mindset change

@delicate bane my degree was different since i was learning different types of IT, since my associated was IT support/tech and I'm getting bach. Look at the job description and look at the most common skilled required and practice it.

[compact spoke]

Is there any free course for python dsa from beginner to advanced? I am working for backend but due to lack of fluency in python... I am finding it extremely difficult.

[spark cobalt]

!resources Then you probably wanna start with the basics in Python. If you're referring preparing for technical interviews, I'd do Grokking and Elements of the Programming Interview which you might be able to find online. Otherwise, Abdul Bari on YouTube is another incredibly good source that I went through.

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[rugged wasp]

Is it important to show off some of my projects on Github for job?

[uneven summit]

Automation in Python
Partitioning WINDOWS in pythonIS Possible ?

[near ocean]

Not a career question

[shut slate]

Hi, In my resume how should I describe a project which is neither hosted in web nor publicly released? I'm just applying for internships and it's my only team project, so I want in to be in my resume. Below I'm sharing what I've tried, would appreciate any help/suggestions:

Designed and developed the frontend for a web-based file manager as part of a proprietary project, utilizing HTML, CSS, and JavaScript to optimize user experience and performance.

[true harness]

I wouldn't say anything about that aspect of the project. I would, however, use bullet points

[shut slate]

hmmm

[true harness]

no one wants to read a long sentence. bullet points are much better

[shut slate]

alright, below is my attempt making bullet points:

➡Designed and developed the frontend for a web-based file manager 
➡It was a proprietary project developed under NDA 
➡Utilized HTML, CSS, and JavaScript to optimize user experience and performance.

[true harness]

was it actually an NDA 🤔. and even if it was, that point adds nothing. just remove it

for the last bullet, i would switch the order, "optimized user ... with ..."

[near ocean]

Its a frontend, youre going to use html,css, js most likely
I dont think this bullet point adds anything, how and what did you optimise and by how much

Having said that i should probably go look at my own cv now

[true harness]

it's all about 👏 demonstrated 👏 skills 👏

[true harness]

yeah tbh i think i have some bullet points i could prune

[near ocean]

Lmao i have a line like that
Sometimes its hard to come up with figures to support bullet points
Like, how do I improve this without going into a rabbithole
"Developed and maintained both customer and admin facing UI components in JavaScript and Python,"

[true harness]

Hand wrote HTML, CSS, and Handlebars.js templates for the frontend.
😬 it's a wonder i'm getting interviews at all 😬

[fallen jewel]

does anyone have any experience in working as a software engineer in defense?

[true harness]

what would you ask someone if they said yes?

[fallen jewel]

i would ask them which company and also how was it

[near ocean]

People probably wouldnt share which company they worked or are working in

[fallen jewel]

yeah probably

[true harness]

you'll probably need to be more specific than "how was it". but i know kutiekat worked in defense, not as an swe, though

[near ocean]

More targeted less personally identifying question would work better

tfw cant work in defence cause i wasnt born here

[fallen jewel]

are most of the people here from the us

[peak halo]

I don't know that you can make general statements about how working for US defense contractors is all that different from working for non-defense companies that hire developers with similar skillsets. (I work in DC, but not for a defense contractor.)

[true harness]

i don't think so. i believe server stats show more europeans

[peak halo]

pretty sure europeans are a plurality, and there's also a lot of people from india/south asia

[true harness]

i would think most of the europeans are at work right now

[peak halo]

I'd say our usership is pretty representative of where people speak English.

[peak halo]

are you suggesting that people don't use Discord while they're working?

[true harness]

well, some do, evidently, but probably not enough time to answer a question like "how is it like at work"

[delicate bane]

id say we have more students than working professionals

[true harness]

it's more useful for later stages of the process, after an initial hr screen

[near ocean]

If you have nothing else for them to look at, github is a good pad

[true harness]

one interviewer did go and look at my projects, but that was after 2 interviews already. it's probably true that they wouldn't look you up on an initial screen

[leaden jasper]

What kind of an answer are you looking for? The company culture? The kind of work? The workload? Something else?

[fallen jewel]

yes

[leaden jasper]

Company culture will vary per company, but generally it's going to be the similar large company that's been around for awhile type of thing. Clear chain of management, established processes, and things move just a tad bit slower than you would expect.

The work depends on the contract as does the workload though.

Even for my work (engineering, not SWE), one contract has me traveling 1-2x a month for week-long test support, but another I have to write 1 report within the next 8 weeks.

So it can vary a lot. My friend who did do defense contractor SWE work was stuck on a maintenance contract for existing software. He said it was very, very, very boring.

[delicate bane]

but like, do you really want to

[near ocean]

No, but not being able to rubs me the wrong way

[true harness]

it makes sense somewhat

[delicate bane]

i think most get around that issue by just serving time in the military no?

[true harness]

at least in the US, you just need to be a citizen for some clearances

[near ocean]

I feel like as a citizen of a former colony i should be entitled to possibly acquiring government secrets while working in defence

[delicate bane]

you dont need the highest levels though

[near ocean]

I dont think uk military could take me, im diabetic
My own country's military couldnt

Salty im missing out on lockheed martin bags

I actually considered joining the royal navy as an engineer for some time

[true harness]

welp, interview soon. will update with the ~experience~

[fallen jewel]

i would say gl but u dont need it

[true harness]

I don't know if I would say that 😬. also it's 2 minutes late 🤔

[fallen jewel]

thats a problem, u have to be confident even if you are incorrect

[true harness]

that's the absolute worst thing you can do

[fallen jewel]

i know 😄

f22 was coded in ada

[true harness]

it went ok, i think

i kinda goofed on the compensation talk, but it'll probably be fine

[fallen jewel]

15 mins?

[near ocean]

That was quick, recruiter call?

[true harness]

just a phone screen with hr person, yeah

most of these companies i get interviews with don't really have like, real competition in terms of needing to filter with algorithms and such

[delicate bane]

what type of position is this one. they tell you anything?

[true harness]

"student qa analyst"

[quasi anchor]

hey guys what is up!

[true harness]

☁️

[true harness]

bruh i got an email with "congratulations" but it was some random recruitement site telling me about an opportunity in some unrelated field 😩

[zealous topaz]

is it against social norm to ask about project budget status when you are applying for junior position in certain sector of IT? I had interview with bank for data engineering and asked that question (the position requires relocating and I didn't want to relocate and get project canceled on me due to economic reasons like SVB fear) and interviewer seem got triggered a little...

[vapid jay]

Up is the direction opposite to down. For instance, the sky is 'up' when one is standing outside on the Earth.

[spark cobalt]

That's not information they can just give to the public. Not sure why you asked this. Also SVB situation is handled, you're fine.

[true harness]

it might be reasonable for a startup maybe

[spark cobalt]

Uhh I don't see why, maybe I'm missing something

I wouldn't give info of my company internals to a stranger, no matter what my company is.

In fact, idek if this kind of information is given internally to the average engineer joe

[near ocean]

If I was applying to a job working on a project that may or may not exist next month I think I should be entitled to know

[spark cobalt]

It's impractical. If they are aware their project is gonna crash anytime soon due to finance they wouldn't make the foolish decision to hire someone for it. They literally don't have the money.

Ok that could've been worded so much better. If they don't have the budget to last another month, they don't have the budget to hire another engineer for it.

[smoky quest]

I don't see anything wrong with it. It's fair to ask about the current state, issues and plans.

[smoky quest]

There is a difference between giving important business metrics and giving out information about the projects

[true harness]

how did you get an internship then

that's pretty much where i'm at, lol. actually, 5 places agreed to interview out of 332 apps

i also go to a no name school, and have no previous experience. you gotta stop coping about that lol

i'd hate to get into a "my situation is worse than yours" type of discussion

[delicate bane]

oh yeah you talked about that. had a fellow intern who did that while i was in the internship program. he did not like it one bit

[delicate bane]

bro half of those are scams/phishing links

[sleek egret]

most people at jpmorgan aren't programmers

interns aren't really expected to know much 🙂

[true harness]

it's more for the candidates' ~potential~

[sleek egret]

I'm a rebel because I don't believe in potential

[delicate bane]

what do you believe in

[sleek egret]

I believe in nothing

[true harness]

maybe i'll have a chance next year 😔

[sleek egret]

anything is possible

cheatin'?

[sleek egret]

and what is "TWo Sum"?

[delicate bane]

ah.

[stark belfry]

👀

[true harness]

it's a relatively famous problem. "given an array return indexes where the elements at those indexes add up to a given number"

[dreamy shadow]

Don't you believe in the power of friendship?

[delicate bane]

they already have the HR paperwork done

[sleek egret]

often job written tests don't expect you to get all questions correct

[buoyant seal]

Friendship is magic ✨: 🦄 😁

[true harness]

i thought you didn't want to be a quant

[sleek egret]

it's easier to just hire quants (that's what I did)

yes

I majored in systems engineering (essentially the math of engineering) and I manage the infrastructure/software dev (longer-term codebase) team

what did you major in and what's your role?

[delicate bane]

ah.

[sleek egret]

math is always a good thing. math is the language of God

[delicate bane]

wait what were your choices again

no no. quant vs. other options

what are the other options? also that sounds like a highly stressful way to live

i mean if you werent going quant, what other options would you pursue instead

i was going to say something but then i realized i dont have anything to say to that

hmm why delete your messages?

[fallen jewel]

is this in the us?

[fallen jewel]

.

[true harness]

yes

[delicate bane]

did you happen to be there when i showed the ratios my peers faced? they were grad students too

[fallen jewel]

thats actually crazy

[true harness]

idk. i wouldn't remember

bruh i'm getting rolled over here

[fallen jewel]

do u guys have job fairs there at unis?

[delicate bane]

these are grad students so this ratio makes sense. some have work exp tol

alright. its been shown. now its gone. sorry not sorry lurkers

[true harness]

yeah but wouldn't the competition be higher for those internships? or do they also apply for the undergrad ones 😳

[fallen jewel]

habibi come to europe lol

[near ocean]

Its honest work, someone has to do it and chatgpt aint got legs

[delicate bane]

sometimes companies dont distinguish between undergrad vs grad students

[fallen jewel]

weve had job fair last 3 days, like 20+ companies, none of them huge but still

atleast in my country its so easy to get a job out of college

[delicate bane]

what country

[fallen jewel]

Slovenia

[sleek egret]

what % of young people go to university in slovenia?

[fallen jewel]

if i had to guess i would say around 35% of people have degrees

[true harness]

according to my ATS, september 28

[fallen jewel]

holy shit

programming culture is so different in the us

from what ive seen u guys learn the same things we do but when it comes to jobs its like way more competitive

[true harness]

the total number of applications is actually relatively low. just under 2 apps per day if i do the math. but i usually do them in big bursts, like 20 in a day, then none for like a week

[sleek egret]

well, no offense, but slovenia only has 2 mil people. that's a single borough of NYC

[fallen jewel]

true that

[true harness]

i already applied there i think

[fallen jewel]

people here are mostly focused on mechatronics/mechanics and medicine

[sleek egret]

I knew a couple guys that worked at walmart in bentonville

[fallen jewel]

2023 over, 2024 my year

[sleek egret]

walmart has a reputation for being "cheap"

[true harness]

on what. what is thought provoking about that

[fallen jewel]

isnt it easier to get a job at a start up?

[true harness]

well i hope it's not over, i'm waiting on results from a few interviews 😬

actually, @delicate bane, are those numbers tracking how many different companies? or just total number of interviews. my ratios are still way lower though, lol

[sleek egret]

sends out good wishes to @true harness

[true harness]

rmah i didn't know you were capable of such things

[delicate bane]

no info there

[delicate bane]

bro dont stress about it. these are grad students. some with previous work exp. i think your ratio is great for current market

i think you should figure out some options besides quant but thats just my opinion

[true harness]

gotta get on the grind. get the bread

[delicate bane]

yeah just apply more imo

[true harness]

i'm working on it 😔

[delicate bane]

cant translate if theres no data.

[delicate bane]

dont get discouraged. you got this

[true harness]

yeah i had an interview earlier today, not sure if i'm gonna have any more ;-;

very

[sleek egret]

but don't you want them to know the real you?

[true harness]

i mean, i talk normally and professionally. no cap

[near ocean]

Everyone puts on an act, what happened to fake it till you make it

[true harness]

i don't think that's what that means

[cedar dragon]

Found this on the internet

[dreamy shadow]

Be one with ChatGpt4

[cedar dragon]

I done network course and got most of them on top of my head @true harness

[delicate bane]

did you already screengrab the paragraph that says they wont reveal any of their secret sauce.

also sorry dont actually do it. thats kinda off-topic. forgot we were in #career-advice

[sleek egret]

so... like people

[zealous path]

Sounds like it’s just becoming more human

[strange snow]

Is front end development easier to find a job? I hear on youtube that it's much easier to start out making webpages or front end UX than it is to find a backend job which is where people use python. Is this true?

[deft herald]

it's much easier to start out making webpages or front end UX
While it may be true, it also may be true that this means it'd be harder to find a job in front end because every noob has already taken them 😄

It's all just anecdotal. It's easiest to find a job in areas that you're good at/have experience in

[true harness]

i think it's somewhat true that frontend will have less barriers to entry in terms of education. this makes the competition much higher

[smoky quest]

In general, it has lower requirements of entry.

Note also that if you are in HS or college, a CS degree is the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities

[strange snow]

no, I'm a career changer. I want to get into programming so i can make a living wage.

[smoky quest]

nice!

[strange snow]

@smoky quest i'm currently working on a python boot camp class on udemy.

[true harness]

the common advice is to use your current experience and try to find ways you can use it in the programming field

[regal maple]

Whats up who embraces Python tkinter

[cerulean raptor]

hello

[deft herald]

🙋‍♂️

[vapid jay]

Has anyone here got an internship at Google?

[smoky quest]

I am sure some people did. Is there a specific question about it?

[vapid jay]

Yes, I wanted to ask "In your opinion, what do you think made the you stand out to the recruiter for your internship at Google?"

[hushed comet]

Hello! I'm looking for a professional software engineer that i can maybe interview in a voice channel and ask 10 questions relating to their profession, its for a school project about an investigation about our future professions so it will help me allot aswell!😅

[deft herald]

I'd be open to a written prompt if that's an option

[hushed comet]

Unfortunately it has to be a recording sorta like an interview in a meeting, its a requirement for our project from our teacher which is quite limiting

[maiden fog]

wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooot got my first IT job. System Admin I

[near ocean]

Congrats

[maiden fog]

TY! Year and a half ago I quit my job to focus on reskilling. Hard work, dedication, and spaghetti

[true harness]

sounds risky, but I'm glad it worked out

[hushed comet]

Spaghetti is a huge factor for success

I should really eat more spaghetti

[maiden fog]

I have perfected the recipe too you gotta put pesto on top

costco.

[fallen wharf]

sick

[maiden fog]

just need my foot in the door and i'm gonna wedge it in there real good so they can't shut it on me

[true harness]

hell yeah

[spark cobalt]

Congrats!

[hot violet]

do you guys have any recommendations of where I can find commission jobs for python? Like a discord server or reddit community or smth like that

[near ocean]

Dont know about commission jobs, there are links to python job sites in the pins

[crude cliff]

What is up

[hot violet]

yeah I know, I'm just not good enough in python yet+don't have enough time for a full job so I'm looking for commissions, but thanks anyways

[crude cliff]

Can someone help me real quick

[spark cobalt]

Open source is a good way to grow your skillset

[hot violet]

got it thank you

may I ask tho wdym by open source lol @spark cobalt

[near ocean]

I recently was looking at a project on github that would pay people for submitting PRs (that eventually get merged) by feature size

So if you took on a big bug they would pay you for a successful PR

Im trying to find it but my old man brain is failing me 👴

Got it, sadly it isnt python related but for anyone wondering its trpc
https://github.com/trpc/trpc/issues/1599

[spark cobalt]

Like on GitHub. You can search by tags and look for good first issue then grow from there.

[true harness]

what's with all these projects putting some letter in front of RPC

[hot violet]

oh okay now I understand thank you

[near ocean]

Pretty fun project, trying to push for it at work but first i gotta moan for TS support

Fuckin types, how do they work?

• sane clown posse (probably)

[spark cobalt]

Oh this project looks interesting

[icy moat]

yep

[near ocean]

Tech Support Support? TS => Typescript

TS and type annotations in python are "extras" from a certain management point of view thats not prioritized properly

[summer roost]

"moan" means "complain" in this context

[near ocean]

Oh, well yes, should have clarified i dont actually moan at my manager, that would be inappropriate and i'd have HR hunting me down

Anyway my moaning is working, theres a TS support ticket with my name on it
Now to convince them that type annotations are good too

[fierce nexus]

I think, being at CS in my country was a mistake, the first year is really freaking me out, I'm not learning anything about CS

[spark cobalt]

Didn't we have a discussion yesterday about this

[near ocean]

Why not? What would be better?

[pine sleet]

is there a floral design major

[spark cobalt]

I'd be a music major if I went to college ngl

[peak halo]

My mom was a music major. She works in software now.

This is an unhelpful statement unless you say why you think that (without being asked to). This is a programming server. The default assumption is that it's worth pursuing a programming-related education.

[peak halo]

when you say that you aren't learning anything about CS, what is it that you are learning, and how does it differ from what you expected?

[fierce nexus]

Yeah I know, But I'm having a crisis again

[fierce nexus]

Like I'm learning biology, instead of programming

[spark cobalt]

The college structure just doesn't support your expectations.

It is standard for major declarations to happen at the end of sophomore year. Once people are 'locked in' on what they want to do, then does the more niche and specific classes get started.

The beginning is just giving you a taste of various things, in what is phrased as getting you to be "well rounded" so you make a more educated decision on your major pick.

If there's 4 years of solid chunk of just CS stuff, college would be 6 years long.

[peak halo]

I had to take five chemistry courses. It's annoying to take out-of-major courses that you don't care about, but that's just the reality of higher education. Having to take non-CS courses as a CS major doesn't mean that they're failing to teach you CS.

[fierce nexus]

But why they do that?

[summer roost]

because they believe it is important to produce well-rounded graduates with a broad education

[spark cobalt]

Also to give you exposure. People picking majors in fields they only know of from high school/household is a rather dangerous thing.

[peak halo]

Because the decision makers think it will make you more well-rounded, and that this is worth it. They might be wrong, but they're not likely to change their minds.

[summer roost]

in the US, accredited computer science programs are required to include general science education. It's likely the same in your country.

[deft herald]

5?? I did engineering and needed 2. Unless you count thermodynamics

[peak halo]

I technically only needed four, but there was some shenanigans and I took one that ended up not counting.

[deft herald]

I do remember having this same crisis though. LIke "why don't english majors have to take thermo"

[summer roost]

for that matter, another possible reason for requiring general science education classes is to make it easier to pursue masters degrees at other institutions (and possibly in other countries).

[peak halo]

@fierce nexus at your university, is computer science under engineering, or humanities, or what?

[summer roost]

seriously, English classes for CS students are incredibly valuable. Being able to clearly communicate your ideas in text form is a super power for developers.

[deft herald]

Of course now i see that value. At the time i sure didn't 🙂

[peak halo]

I was a TA for a theory-heavy course that had reading and writing assignments, and the instructor said "I'm going to grade the first written assignment to see if these engineers can even form sentences."

[deft herald]

In theory though, you should know how to "english good" before entering an undergrad program

I think that's why I hated my english courses in college - cause they were nothing new from what i took in High School

[summer roost]

if universities made that a requirement for admission, they'd reject a lot more candidates.

but honestly, it's not that I couldn't write as a high school student, but I'd definitely say my university English classes helped me further develop that skill (particularly persuasive writing and critique/analysis)

[deft herald]

It wouldn't have to be a requirement; just a catch-up thing for those who couldn't, i dunno, write a good entry essay?

(particularly persuasive writing and critique/analysis
fair enough

[summer roost]

that's a bit tricky. You never know how much help students had editing those essays before they were sent in...

English classes in high school were much more about parroting back information you had been taught, whereas English classes in uni focus much more on analyzing the text yourself, drawing your own conclusions, and using the text to support your conclusions

[true harness]

depends on the class

[coral vine]

Hi all ! Weird but I have 4 ppl that could change my life and get me started in my programming career already if I just asked but… I’m too ashamed or egotistical o.o any advice?

I interviewed at a place recently and it’s only been 4 days of no response but it’s so anxiety inducing Dx and it’s only my 2nd interview. I feel if I do this route, it may take me an extra year. But if I let go of my ego , I can have it already

[smoky quest]

If you are in HS or college age, a CS degree is the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[coral vine]

Did you type this or did bot do it Dx

I feel like I’ve seen you write this before xD

[spark cobalt]

Ask.

Most people are afraid to ask for things in fear of being rejected, but ultimately if what you're asking is reasonable there's very little reason for people to not reject you.

Iirc you have a history of self sabotage, try to break through this wall and break out of it. 🙂

I reckon you'd be more ashamed if you let this opportunity wash up

[coral vine]

I let it wash up for a few years :/ not sure how to get past my own ego or mind

[spark cobalt]

The fact that you recognized an opportunity is better than most people. Now you just need to seal the deal.

[smoky quest]

You asked for advice in starting a career

[coral vine]

Oh I was just curious if it was a bot. Still sus. You typed it all out?

[smoky quest]

You can ping them in a day or two. But that long after an interview is not a good sign and I would not hold my breath over them

[spark cobalt]

What's holding you back? It's your story, your opportunities to grab. "This your movie cuz no one can play you"

[smoky quest]

I am a gpt-based bot

[spark cobalt]

Recursive is GPT-5 beta

[coral vine]

Lol I searched you up just to make sure it wasn’t bot

[delicate bane]

literally deja vu

[coral vine]

But there’s like 5+ versions that are similar so I guess you did type it up xD

I thought it was word for word the same exact thing, well from my memory of what I saw you write in the past, but I’m wrong

I would have been so happy if I discovered recursive was actually a bot this whole time

[delicate bane]

his advice is the same. many would agree with it

[coral vine]

It would explain a lot of things

[delicate bane]

if you dont want to get a degree then thats up to you

mr ringringring. im still mad about your DS comment earlier so

im jk. im not mad. 😛

[coral vine]

I want a degree ! And plan to eventually get one, but living situation atm is not feasible Dx

Need to move to new location but need job! Dx im hoping to get job and finish my degree after moving out

[summer roost]

If you have people who can help you get a job, and you need a job, why wouldn't you want their help?

[coral vine]

I feel so shameful for some reason.

I feel like it’s like in the movie fight club where the dude is like

If you need a place to stay, bro just ask

I guess because so much time went by. I got distracted by relationships and non-career related things and I feel I let people down

And if I ask then it’s like… they’d be thinking I should have been working a long time ago and I feel so ashamed by that thought Dx

[summer roost]

how did you feel about that scene when you watched it? What did you think the right thing to do was?

[coral vine]

I was thinking it’s true that most people are too scared to just ask. And the right thing is to just ask

[summer roost]

so it sounds like you already know what the right thing to do is, and you already know what advice you'd give to someone else who came to you asking for advice. All that's left is to follow your own advice.

[upbeat ruin]

If anyone is happy to help, what roles do you have and what sample projects did you include in your portfolio?

[coral vine]

My programming professor offered me a programming job 5 yrs ago and I declined at the time because I was just starting school and wanted to continue more of that. But then I got derailed and then too ashamed and then so much time passed :/ it seems like a not-typical thing therefore shameful

But i guess I’ll muster the courage to contact her again and gulp just ask. I’m fearful of the judgement !!

[smoky quest]

you may want forego your ideas of saving face and being proud. Being humble can go a long way.
Take all the chances you can get

[pliant field]

im ceo of tesla hbu

[spark cobalt]

I'm a janitor at Tesla

[silver bane]

I have some bandwidth which freelancer platforms i can look out for small 3 months gigs . Any freelancers here ?

[coral vine]

Yes it’s time for me to throw in the white towel and get her help. I won’t be able to navigate this higher education stuff without any reference points since the people around me haven’t done it Dx

But it’s definitely less scary now since I typed out my thoughts to the universe. And to a friend that I respect! So no backing out of asking now xD

Thanks all 🙏 and farewell nightmarish job hunt

[true harness]

if only it was that easy 😔

👏 demonstrated 👏 skills 👏

no

[near remnant]

so I already have an offer that I accepted but since then, I've received another offer from a different company. Amazing salary, full remote, amazing stack but they want me to buy myself a laptop to work on, so they don't provide laptop. Wtf? It's a startup but bro...would you guys care about this?

maybe I'm overdramatic idk

[near ocean]

Reneging on your offer is not very cool, but its understandable most of the time

[true harness]

the career people at my school say it's very mean for internships. apparently 3 people reneged on a company from my school and they stopped coming to career fairs 😬

[near remnant]

I always got company laptop so I can't imagine working on my own PC or laptop

[true harness]

asking you to buy one is different from asking you to just work on one that you already hvae

they told the career people that was why

[near ocean]

My gf's workplace kind of blacklists candidates that renege

[near remnant]

would it be a dumb move to decline a good offer just because I don't want to work on my own laptop or PC? I mean...I could buy a cheap laptop from the first month's salary but....

[true harness]

dumb if you have no other offers, but didn't you say you already accepted one? i would say unless you can persuade this new company to give you a better deal, what's the point of caring?

[near ocean]

Are they specifying what kind of laptop you would need? If they want you to use a macbook but wont provide it thats super dumb

[spark cobalt]

Either way, you'd want a personal laptop/PC whether they give you one or not. Unless the issue is it's in office and you have a huge ass PC.

[spark cobalt]

Have you asked what's the standard laptop people have there?

[near ocean]

It depends, if they're going to require you install a company portal, auth, require access to wipe possibly confidential info from your personal laptop i'd be wary too

[spark cobalt]

That's true too

I'd probably just get a whole separate laptop lol. I like keeping work and personal environment separate.

You can get some really nice laptops for a couple hundred (USD).

I mean, 150 FPS on Valorant for 400$ is pretty good.

Mostly just saying as benchmark that it'd probably be able to run whatever he wants to run for work

[pulsar atlas]

I ave qustion did juniors have a chance in programming Python now

[near ocean]

Yes

[frigid saffron]

You are being kinda unhelpful ngl

[near ocean]

Why wouldnt they
If you say chatgpt i will hunt you down

[spark cobalt]

hp 17-cp0700dx

[pulsar atlas]

so it will not be waste of time for study Python and Java and go inside IT industry

[solemn epoch]

bro what about Asus tuf f15

[near ocean]

It will not be a waste no

[pulsar atlas]

I have asus Tuf f17 and he noisy

[spark cobalt]

I'm getting an HP Omen tomorrow, but was using this as a temp laptop for the past week. Really smooth laptop, better than my M1 Intel Mac lol

[near remnant]

I think the HR girl is kinda dumb. The CEO told me that all the devs are working remotely and every job posting on the company's career website has "laptop provided" part so I assume the HR doesn't know shit

[solemn epoch]

i have asus tuf f15 and yeah mine's noisy too

[pulsar atlas]

its noisy powerful and bad cooler

[solemn epoch]

congrats bro, enjoy your new gaming laptop

[true harness]

have you considered, you know, saying that?

[spark cobalt]

Many companies give Macs, if it's better than a Mac it's probably more than good enough for work

[solemn epoch]

bro i like linux

[spark cobalt]

Nah I'm not using it for gaming. Mostly simulations and emulators stuff for development.

[pulsar atlas]

which stacks of language i should learn for job like Python programmer

[near remnant]

Im gonna call the ceo next week to ask about this so yeah

[solemn epoch]

oh cool

[spark cobalt]

I stopped gaming like last week. Started a huge project with some other people and that's been taking all my time.

A good multi purpose laptop

[pulsar atlas]

Who needs more backend or frontend developer?

[spark cobalt]

Needs more what

[pulsar atlas]

gets more job vacations. Sorry my bad

[near remnant]

Btw, finding a new job as a junior with 6 months of experience is spain but the "s" is silent

[spark cobalt]

Idk why they'd be different

[near remnant]

I did but it was rough

U ok bro?

[spark cobalt]

I have shit ton of laptops on me, one being donated but no one has sent a request for it

[true harness]

idk lol. from your description it didn't seem that bad. interviews like every day for a few weeks

[spark cobalt]

America has it worse by more than 20x relative to your experience

[near ocean]

6 months is nothing, calm down lol

[near remnant]

Im a bit overdramatic sometimes and extremely pessimistic and negative so there is that

[true harness]

they had 6 months xp, not 6 months searching. iirc, it's only been 3ish

[near ocean]

Oh, what the fuck

[spark cobalt]

And they've had like dozens of interviews already

[pulsar atlas]

So which stacks i should learn as minimal for Junior vacation or intership?

[near remnant]

I interviewed for 2.5 months to get 2 offers

[spark cobalt]

Britain

[near remnant]

Actually it was 2 months not 2.5

[true harness]

i would say that's a pretty bad conversion rate, but at least you're getting interviews lol

[near remnant]

What is bad? You think u will get the first job where u get an interview? Lmao

[near ocean]

Just ace the interview, whats the problem

[spark cobalt]

The conversion rate is typically much higher than 2/30 or however many companies you interviewed at. (You've said higher numbers before)

[true harness]

i didn't say that

[stoic cove]

may anyone help me to fix an issue

[near remnant]

I had around 16-18 interviews maybe 20 at max

[pulsar atlas]

he is from Kazakhstan or Africa i think

[spark cobalt]

This is like China reporting their COVID numbers

[near remnant]

But honestly, I don't know if I should just wait and interview more and find a better job. But then again, I might need 6 months to find something

[near ocean]

I had 2 in the 1.5years i've worked and 2.5years since i've graduated 💀

[spark cobalt]

Everytime it's a different number from this guy

[true harness]

didn't you say you accepted an offer

[near remnant]

I accepted it but its probation period bro

[near ocean]

Not the channel #python-discussion

[spark cobalt]

This is about careers, please delete your message and go to #1035199133436354600 or something

[near remnant]

Maybe im too picky? I mean im a junior with only 6 months of experience.. Maybe im on a high horse lol

[true harness]

suffering from success frfr

[pulsar atlas]

suffering so i want to discuss about your experience guys?

[near remnant]

I know some people from cscareerquestions who would accept a YEAR long unpaid internship bro just to get into tech, its crazy

[pulsar atlas]

so ho you start learn programming and which your first language was?

[near remnant]

I don't think it worth it tho

[spark cobalt]

Python, Discord bots

[spark cobalt]

I mean, internship they're likely still in school. It's completely different to do unpaid work when you have bills to pay

[near remnant]

Nah, there are internships where you can apply without school. And some people wanna do unpaid dev internships bro for a year 💀💀💀

That's crazy to me

[true harness]

that sounds like a terrible idea. both from a getting experience standpoint and a financial standpoint

[near remnant]

Yeah, i mean, you can find a dev job where you get really low salary and still get experience, so why do unpaid internship for a year?

[pulsar atlas]

who can tell all programming his programming career and how he start?

[delicate bane]

literally told you to stop doom scrolling on reddit but here we are

[spark cobalt]

I mean I wouldn't do it, but some people in the right situation can do it (like living with parents).

Some people have been job hunting for years, this might just be their only option.

Reddit is 99% fanfiction and circlejerking bad information

[near remnant]

Can someone with 1-1.5 years of experience in ML transition to something else, like Python Developer or anything else?

[true harness]

i don't see why not. the experience in ML is probably python anyway

[pulsar atlas]

yeah explain for young girls baby

[spark cobalt]

They're different specialties.

[delicate bane]

my guy, at the end of the day, its your life so you can do what you want. but just know that if you keep coming here asking the same questions...idk what youre looking for my guy.

[near remnant]

Bro go and take a nap

[pulsar atlas]

so funny and happy life

[spark cobalt]

Using Python for ML vs building backends is a completely different mindset and situation altogether.

[true harness]

i don't think that's what they asked

[spark cobalt]

You need to take a chill pill. You spend half of your time here over exaggerating everything and it's really hard to discern the truth from the lies from you.

[near remnant]

Lmao guys, you take discord too seriously

[true harness]

do you expect serious advice for your questions?

[spark cobalt]

This happens to be a serious channel.

[pulsar atlas]

can i have senior programmer with mindset of helper definitely nah)

[true harness]

i don't really have a career, but i started programming a few years ago, and i'm now in school for CS

[delicate bane]

this is true. can confirm.

[near ocean]

What does this mean

[near remnant]

Im sorry guys im lost in my thoughts and Im stressing all the time, im gonna leave the server, have a nice day 😦

[spark cobalt]

Cya, good luck in life.

[near remnant]

Ok I'm back

[pulsar atlas]

its mean i just want to hear which stack og languages i should learn first to start my IT career

[spark cobalt]

You should seek professional help to see how you can fix this issue.

[near ocean]

You should go to uni, thats the first step

[spark cobalt]

Depends on what you wanna do to begin with. IT is too broad.

[delicate bane]

getting a cs degree would make it easier, yes

if you are interested in programming

[true harness]

python is pretty good

[near remnant]

But seriously, my first offer is a "junior ML dev" role which is basically a data engineering role with some ML library stuff, like Tensorflow and Keras. It would be a good experience and I would learn a lot but let's say I want to transition to something else, like Python Developer or BI or whatever, would it be hard? Because the salary would be quite low, I don't want to work here for more than a year.

[pulsar atlas]

i dont want uni i have already ended and have a lot of money in real estate. I just want to change my mindset to IT industry. So which stack of languages of Python i should learn to create my own apps. After this i should learn Java or which languages?

[near remnant]

?

[near ocean]

That depends on where you live and also what you mean when you say IT
Do you want to go into webdev for example?

[near remnant]

I have applied economics bachelor's and economics master's but no classic math

Not my thing

[pulsar atlas]

yeah i live in post soviet country so i just want advices for development in IT industry for work online and start my career like web in IT industry

[hearty island]

my finance class is killing me now, i just had to pick the hardest prof

and it’s just a finance class that every business major has to take

[delicate bane]

good question. when germans say IT, it includes programming. in the states, CS and IT careers tend to run separately

[near ocean]

You could look at what your local companies use and try and learn that, getting remote opportunities would be tougher
They could be using java, c#, python, ruby, js, etc many things

[hearty island]

but he makes it extremely difficult it’s something he takes pride in

he did say he was impressed by my work ethic

[near remnant]

Anyone? Or it would be a pigeonhole?

[pulsar atlas]

so i should right my cv letter and go work internship in local companies?

[delicate bane]

true rip. you are like me when i took ochem

[hearty island]

at least it’s my junior year and then senior year will be easy

[near ocean]

I can imagine tons of disappointed applicants lmao

[hearty island]

and then i have my full time offer as a project manager

[pulsar atlas]

yeahh so fucking tough heh

[delicate bane]

yeah im sure lol

[true harness]

those videos are so bad ngl

[pulsar atlas]

Another question any good courses for juniors i should use to get inside IT industry?

Anybody ended programming course for get an IT vacation?

[true harness]

what is an "IT vacation"?

[near remnant]

IT holiday

[pulsar atlas]

sorry for getting his first job in IT industry

[delicate bane]

if you are really that desperate and dont want to go to uni, have you considered a reputable bootcamp in your country

[near ocean]

They've already graduated i think they mentioned

[delicate bane]

ah missed that

[near ocean]

I think so, thats how i interpret this anyway
Might be somewhat of a language barrier

[sleek egret]

yar

[vapid jay]

Guys can a boot camp help me as a self taught programer like can it make me get employed at least after 3 months of completing it.

[delicate bane]

at the end of the day it will depend on your own effort

[sleek egret]

sure. learning more always helps.

[dreamy shadow]

The junior ML dev is going to be a data engineering role. Pretty much bare minimum usage of ML libraries. This will sit within data engineering. If you want to be a general python developer, then I would try find a job that fits that more. The skill sets are different.

[true harness]

nothing will "make you" employed. unless it's one of those weird boot camps where you sign a contract and work with a company afterwards for some time

[sonic mica]

I wonder, how likely is it for SEs to be replaced by AI (or take a pay hit because of it) in the next fifty or so years? I am about to finish highschool and I am wondering if this is a reason to not go into tech, I plan to retire at age 60~65 and I sure don't wanna be 15 years into a career then get replaced

[true harness]

unlikely

[deft herald]

If anything, SE's will be the last thing to be replaced by AI

50 years is a long time though...

[sonic mica]

I'd argue it's doctors, because that's one of those fields where mistakes can't be afforded

[true harness]

but not software that controls planes? I guess the moral is to choose an area that's difficult lol

[sonic mica]

I personally like web dev, and idk if it's a good idea to start a career in that if I wanna retire late

[true harness]

most experienced programmers will say it's not likely to happen any time soon

[deft herald]

Yeah but it'll take an SE to develop that AI and integrate it into a plane system

[true harness]

my point was that software is also sometimes an area where bugs are not acceptable

[deft herald]

yeah gotcha

[true harness]

tbh most fields are that

do you want an AI building bridges for you? idk, probably not soon

[sleek egret]

any idiot can design a bridge that will last 1000 years. it takes an engineer to design a bridge that will cost exactly $50mil, can handle an exact load and lasts exactly 50 years.

[near ocean]

And also collapse at the slightest breeze

[near ocean]

No <@&831776746206265384>

[dreamy spade]

This person had this to write in for a technical interview. This is for a Senior position.

https://www.reddit.com/r/webdev/comments/11t5886/is_this_too_much_for_a_take_home/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

[near ocean]

That looks like free labour

[smoky quest]

how so?

[smoky quest]

That looks pretty straightforward and much better than a DP hard leetcode problem

[unborn bridge]

I remember getting an e-mail response from a job I applied for a long time ago, and it was some skill-testing stuff in C++. There were three tests, and 45 minutes to complete them. A test is considered to be passing if all the unit tests run against it complete successfully. In all three cases I was able to match the expected output perfectly, and in all three cases there was a test for execution speed which failed. At first I was using STL containers for sorting and reducing the input, but even after switching to for loops and trying to skip as much data as possible I just couldn't get those execution time tests to go green. In the end I failed the tests, and was left hoping the person who created them got gout

[true harness]

this honestly looks ok. just a little harder than one I got for an internship

not to be overconfident, but aside from spring, I'm sure I could do this

[near ocean]

Its three widgets, they already have mock ups, its a first round interview take home, looks to me like they want free code regardless of how simple it seems

[pine sleet]

speak of the devil

speak of the sun devil, i guess
i did get accepted
though i already commited to another college soooo lol

[summer roost]

That probably means your choice of data structures wasn't optimal. Or it's a really poorly designed test.

[delicate bane]

[unborn bridge]

It's unfortunate I can't provide a copy of the test. It was about taking string inputs and finding/counting patterns, so there wasn't really a lot of code complexity. The only thing I could think of being slow was using a set to sort the input, but even replacing that was no good. Everything else was super basic, and the execution time limit was in milliseconds.

[summer roost]

I've heard lots of candidates express concern that take home tests are being used for free labor, and I've never heard of any company that actually employs software engineers doing that. If that happens, it happens because the job posting is a scam and the company doesn't really exist.

[delicate bane]

lel. you gonna reply back or just gonna ghost them

[pine sleet]

probably just gonna ghost em

[summer roost]

If the input didn't need to be sorted, sorting is an extra O(n log n) that might have killed you. I dunno, hard to speculate without seeing the problem, but either the question was poorly designed, or your answer was not what they were looking for.

[delicate bane]

honestly id probably do the same

[unborn bridge]

Yes, I agree that one of those two things was probably true

[true harness]

not allowing an n lg n solution is super stringent in most cases. would have to see the actual problem though

[summer roost]

It could be something with an obvious solution that uses sorting but a clever O(n) solution exists, or something.

If it was a poorly designed question, you probably dodged a bullet. 🤷‍♀️

[unborn bridge]

I found the entire testing process to be indicative of ignorance in management. Pretty sure it was a startup and they probably just bought some supposedly quick and easy solution to finding a developer. Point being that the take-home testing questions for that senior position posted on reddit got me feeling envy.

[delicate bane]

its ok. i hope they get gout on your behalf as well

[smoky quest]

how was it indicative of ignorance in management?

[near remnant]

Yeah, probably. Thanks for your opinion, so you think it would benefit me if I want to transition into Data Engineering? That would be nice because I see a lot of Data Engineer roles lately.

[dreamy shadow]

cough @delicate bane cough data engineering cough

[delicate bane]

sky you already started talking about this. we all already gave our input multiple times over the course of several months.

[near remnant]

But yeah, I'm so glad I got this job because it is kinda rough at the moment for a junior. So i will try to make the most of it and learn as much as possible on the side as well.

I would buy you a coffee @delicate bane

[delicate bane]

listen. my only advice to you at this point is to read this book so you at least know the basics of data engineering.

[unborn bridge]

It showed they didn't know how to deal with human beings

[true harness]

how did it show that?

[unborn bridge]

With the complete lack of human interaction at any point

[true harness]

that sounds pretty normal for an OA. if you had passed, you'd probably talk to a real person then

[old agate]

https://link-hub.net/639848/new-year-music-mix-2023

It Would ne nice if you only click on The link

[pastel thunder]

this mf

[old agate]

It just takes 1sec

[unborn bridge]

Not being able to talk to a person until they pass their tests is a sign to me that they don't know how to deal with human beings, either because they have no experience, or no interest

[true harness]

if you say so. it's a very common thing to do.

[unborn bridge]

I'm not saying it isn't common, although that's debatable to me. I'm just saying I don't want to work for a company who thinks best hiring practices are to send them to some skill-testing website instead of talking to them.

[true harness]

they do talk to them. it's just that you didn't make it to that stage.

[unborn bridge]

I think that statement is generally correct, sure

[true harness]

i mean, a lot of companies don't do OA. they will just reject you after screening your resume without talking to you

if their entire hiring process was just an OA, then that would be very strange

[unborn bridge]

I think a company interacts with prospective employees quite differently when they have an HR team, or people whose job it is to do recruitment, than they do if they rely on technology or products to do the recruiting. The latter gives an impersonal and cold impression, even if the former is just as shark-like in their filtering

[smoky quest]

How so?

[true harness]

that's a strange take. HR teams use the technology to filter candidates as well. do you have any idea how many candidates are going to apply to a company like, e.g. HRT? HR would be absolutely swamped if they couldn't filter incoming candidates at all

[unborn bridge]

Using skill-testing tools as part of an interaction process where you're talking to real people is what I prefer, yes

[true harness]

the usual pipeline is: candidates are given an OA, then only the resumes of the passing candidates are screened. the rest are tossed. then phone screen, then a technical interview, etc

[unborn bridge]

That statement is probably true in general, yes

[true harness]

it doesn't say anything about the company's management. they just need a way to filter applicants in an automated way

[smoky quest]

Like what?
I assume you talked to a recruiter who then sent you an online assessment?

[unborn bridge]

A recruiter would at least be a person. I was sent to some online testing site with a time limit. There was no evidence of any human beings actually participating in the process besides myself.

[spark cobalt]

Apply to smaller companies then.

OAs are meant to be generic filters. They have no reason to invest their people's time into you if you can't do Fizzbuzz.

Employees are expensive.

[unborn bridge]

It's really not the size of the company that matters, as startups tend to be the worst when it comes to relying on skill-testing tools in place of technical interviews. Treating employees like cattle is more of a corporate culture aspect.

[spark cobalt]

In my experience it's been the opposite.

[true harness]

idk. i personally don't see the issue with having an automated screen. if you're good enough you get to talk to a human. same thing that happens when you apply and they don't have an OA. if your resume is good enough, you get to talk to a human

[unborn bridge]

There's nothing wrong with holding that position. I simply feel that relying on them in place of human interactions is a poor way of determining what a person's skills and principals are, and that it reflects on management.

[smoky quest]

so you are saying you applied to a position online and then got a single email to do an online assessment?

[true harness]

i don't know of any company that would rely solely on an OA. it's just a method of filtering prior to humans conducting interviews

[smoky quest]

The thing is the online assessment is only a filtering step to cut off the losses early. From their point of view, whether you agree or not with their assessment of your skills, they have succeed since the bar for getting further wasn't met

[unborn bridge]

Yeah, even the most cut-throat employers will see themselves as simply being effective. I prefer the ones that show a more human touch.

[true harness]

apply to less competitive positions

[unborn bridge]

I doubt that will change my opinion

[true harness]

that wasn't the point. less competitive positions don't need to filter as much. more likely you'll talk to a human

[unborn bridge]

I'm not discussing my opinion on recruitment practices as a form of venting about failing to obtain jobs. I'm simply stating that I see certain practices as signs of poor management.

[true harness]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[smoky quest]

Have you been on the other side of the fence?
Because that works well when you talk to 10 applicants, but not so much when you have thousands of applicants

[true harness]

as an anecdote, a company i'm interviewing for had to cut 400 resumes down to 10 to have an interview with, for 1 position. and they don't have an HR department and didn't do OA. probably sucked a lot for them. i'm sure they wished they could cut them down automatically somehow

[spark cobalt]

And for big tech companies, this is easily thousands of applicants especially for new grad roles that they have to cut down to very few.

OAs are intended to be baseline filters for companies. If you can't pass their minimum requirements, they have no obligation to interview you.

[unborn bridge]

What do you think life was like before online assessments existed?

[spark cobalt]

I'd be marginalized by race before my ability to do Leetcode during those times.

[true harness]

lmfao

[spark cobalt]

You can complain about many things in the world, but at least this one isn't exactly unfair. It's a known practice, which you had time to prepare beforehand.

[smoky quest]

we aren't a big company and we already have thousands of applicants

[true harness]

recursive were you involved in hiring before the advent of OAs

[smoky quest]

Before that, you would have a phone call where they would ask you random questions. Or a video call where you write code on a shared screen

[hot ledge]

wrote my first hello world in python 5 seconds ago. looking for senior devops positions.

[true harness]

fully qualified

[smoky quest]

It has always been.
I even had to reverse a linked list at a pub where an engineer invited me for a beer to get acquainted.

I am a GPT based bot

[unborn bridge]

The thing is, life was exactly the same before online assessments. There were companies who had bad recruiting practices that indicated bad management, and companies with good recruiting practices that indicated good management. These new tools have their place, but when a company relies on them to the extent that they don't interact with humans anymore, or until they're down to a select few who ran the gauntlet, it's a sign of not dealing with people well, at least to me.

[spark cobalt]

Are you assuming companies burning in cash didn't investigate other ways of hiring? What if this was the best option they found?

[unborn bridge]

If that's the best option, then I don't want to work for them.

[true harness]

you're eliminating a large proportion of companies ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[spark cobalt]

Well, it sucks that this is becoming more and more of the normalized practice lol.

[unborn bridge]

It's not going in a direction I like, no, but it makes sense given how worldwide the profession is becoming

[true harness]

though i think if you get a referral you're more likely to just have an interview

[spark cobalt]

Unfortunately, having human connection with hundreds to thousands of candidates in the span of a month or so is not feasible and I pray no one has to do this

[smoky quest]

see also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar's_number

[hot ledge]

Try our new ChatGPT Interview Tool today. Hire thousands of candidates each hour!

[spark cobalt]

AI gonna rule us all

[true harness]

i think what they're looking for is just like.. an email from a person, not necessarily to be buddies with the recruiter

[smoky quest]

sure, I can automate said email 😉

[true harness]

honestly idk what they're looking for. maybe i'm brainwashed by The Man

[spark cobalt]

PC wants to kill these HR people lol. Imagine sending thousands of rejection emails, many of whom you know have families to feed etc.

[true harness]

gotta compartmentalize. like drone operators

[spark cobalt]

Compartmentalize isn't always the best strategy. There's massive benefits in smaller close-knitted teams.

[true harness]

!rule 9 😛

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[spark cobalt]

So demanding, just apply to some and get the job

[smoky quest]

We don't do advertisement here, even if I am hiring

[near ocean]

Serious case of skill issue

[true harness]

recursive wanna refer me to your company 🥺 👉 👈

[spark cobalt]

He likes to hide in the shadows. Exposing where he works is like the most non-recursive thing to do

[true harness]

yeah very convenient time to have to go. i see how it is 😭

[smoky quest]

And the internship offers have been wrapped up before thanksgiving last year

[spark cobalt]

Oh wow damn

[unborn bridge]

what do you guys think about a resume absent a cover letter?

[peak halo]

is that a cover letter without a resume, or a resume without a cover letter?

[delicate bane]

bruh

(inb4 blacklisted)

[unborn bridge]

resume without a cover letter

[peak halo]

that's already what you do for most job applications

[unborn bridge]

Really? I just kind of assumed it was best practice since it's always asked for

[peak halo]

what country are you in?

[unborn bridge]

asked for in the sense that there's an upload button for it... I guess not actually asked for. I'm in Canada

[peak halo]

I don't think they're ever actually expected for early-career positions

[unborn bridge]

I think I'll try not using a cover letter for a bit and see how it works out

[smoky quest]

I would say that nowadays it's not required, but it can be a bonus and appreciated if done in an honest way

[summer roost]

The only time I really encourage them is if you've got a non traditional background that makes you seem like you're not a great fit on paper, since the cover letter lets you contextualize things

[true harness]

could you describe your situation more in detail? though i don't think you'll find a company that will hire you for just 6 weeks

[peak halo]

internships are typically planned out several months in advance. how soon is this six-week block that you're referring to?

[vale walrus]

Hey guys, when accessing an api does “status 404” mean it’s a private network and I’m not allowed access?

[deft herald]

maybe

[smoky quest]

Hi and welcome!
However this is unrelated to this channel. You may want to check #❓｜how-to-get-help

[deft herald]

But this channel is for career discussion

[vale walrus]

Thanks for the warm welcome, I’ll check out the other channel.

[dreamy spade]

What’s the usual quota for how many lines a software developer writes per shift?

[smoky quest]

It could go from +1000 to -20000

[dreamy spade]

Wow +1000 is a lot.

None of my college assignments had 1000+ lines of code

[deft herald]

"per shift"? We're always on shift

[dreamy spade]

24/7?

[true harness]

depends on the job. you might be on call, where you're expected to respond to incidents as soon as they happen. other jobs, you work normal hours

[dreamy spade]

On call sounds dreadful

[deft herald]

To me, "shift" implies like a day of small tasks that are begun and completed every day

[smoky quest]

Most of mines were much bigger

[deft herald]

Anecdotal, but over 5 years at my current company, I've added 95,543 lines of code and removed 292,915 lines

I just hit 5 years like a few days ago. So lets say ~230 work days a year for 5 years, averages out to ~83 lines of code written and ~254 lines deleted per day

I'm most proud of the lines removed stat 😄

[true harness]

a lot of refactoring, presumably

[true harness]

maybe a regional thing? shift to me is where you clock in and are working

[deft herald]

I guess it's more of an hourly thing vs salaried

[true harness]

probably, yeah. I only have experience being hourly, so I wouldn't know

[deft herald]

I think the question you should ask is "what's the quota for how many hours of meetings a software developer attends per day?"

[dreamy spade]

How many is it?

[deft herald]

too many

[dreamy spade]

So Software Developers spend more time in meetings than developing?

[deft herald]

Anyways, all this to say the quality and/or quantity of work shouldn't be judged by number of lines of code written. There's no quota, no expectation from management to "make X commits a day". You will be given tasks and if you complete these tasks in a timely manner, then you met expectations and will be given more.

Eventually you get to the point where you are able to see the needs of your team and come up with tasks on your own

And after that, you may start coming up with tasks for yourself and a few other more junior devs

[deft herald]

Some days, absolutely

again though, depends on the job and company and even industry probably

[smoky quest]

no

[limber wolf]

young spry new devs think it's all about coding all day, but your co-workers won't care how much you code if it's not what they want or need, or don't know how to use it. so yeah, you gotta meet w/ people

[weary mist]

Hey everyone

I’m looking to code a discord server that gets cookie logs from users who clicks links my friend isn’t trying to teach me how to so I looked up on google discord servers that could help me

[smoky quest]

Hi and welcome!
This has nothing to do with this channel's topic. You may want to check #❓｜how-to-get-help

[spark cobalt]

That also sounds incredible malicious and against Discord ToS.

[old agate]

https://link-hub.net/639848/new-year-music-mix-2023

[analog citrus]

lol

[west badger]

I want to apply for us uni but don't know what extracurricular activities to do or I should put it on

I am right now in high school 3rd year

[mild vortex]

about 4 months away

[crisp frigate]

i need 50messages

[true harness]

so you're looking for a summer internship kinda?

[stoic current]

Hi all, what would be better to learn to get a job quickly? JS (back end) or ML with python?

[mild vortex]

Yeah
pretty much

[true harness]

I don't know of any that are as short as 6 weeks. most are 10-12, at least in the US

[mild vortex]

I see

[true harness]

you might be able to if you have connections, aka ask them for a job, but I don't think it's likely

[spark cobalt]

6 weeks is not enough time. Many company's onboarding process takes 3-5 weeks.

[spark cobalt]

Open source is a good alternative or things like GSOC which are more flexible.

[true harness]

or just not a tech job. it's not ideal, but much more likely to happen

[mild vortex]

🤔 Yeah thats the problem

[mild vortex]

Yeah ill check it out

Applications open up in 2 days so ill apply then.

[true harness]

work at chipotle 👍

[strange dust]

Where to start for software dev ?

?

[stoic current]

Thanks! I have mostly worked with python

[sleek egret]

yar

does the UK ever have summer?

[pastel thunder]

Is there a way to share linkedIn profile to reruiter using link, and connect to recruiter
But hide it from connections and others?

update: 80+ applied, got back 3 messages/email, out of which 3 gave test link, 2 of the test links made sense, waiting for their response.
1 of them asked for intro call, i gave them timing and follow up, but no response

[near ocean]

Last summer here was actually very nice and toasty

[sleek egret]

maybe england will soon be like spain. won't that be nice?

[near ocean]

Parts of spain are already like england, have you visited Majorca, Ibiza? Brit favourite destinations

[sleek egret]

the # of brits travelling there have levelled off and will soon start to decline as britain becomes poor relative to EU nations

not that that has anything to do with careers using python

[delicate bane]

hmm dunno about the UK. in the states, integrated would be the 4+1 programs i think

is that what integrated means here?

interesting

i believe how the 4+1 programs over here work is you get both a bachelors and masters

[near ocean]

What about the CV pad though? A friend has a MEng, I have BSc and MSc, not to brag but my education section looks better lmaoooo

Ignoring the thousands of pounds more i had to pay and still am

[sleek egret]

that sounds like bragging to me 🙂

[near ocean]

But its casual bragging so its ok, at the end of the day we have the same kind of credentials

[sleek egret]

it's cool bro, you worked hard for those letters.

[near ocean]

Thats what I tell everyone

[sleek egret]

I'm hungry

[delicate bane]

you already have some internships right

so even if you finish in 5 years you should be good to go after you graduate (theoretically)

hmm maybe try to get another one if you can

[sleek egret]

assuming you have a few internships under your belt

[delicate bane]

do it

your future self will thank you

[sleek egret]

maybe even your past self will thank you if time is circular

pretty tough, I would imagine. they also did pretty well in 2023

now that I think about it, I don't think I know anyone who has worked there.... how very odd

I mean, as with any larger firm, it depends on the internal group

I doubt getting a job doing PC help desk or jr network admin there would be super hard

getting a job as a jr quant with expectations that you can handle your own analysis and modelling? probably a lot lot tougher 🙂

[delicate bane]

arent you also competing with grad students? have you also considered grad school

[sleek egret]

I've seen undergrads do better than people with multiple PhD's

not the norm, of course. but it happens.

[delicate bane]

multiple phds sounds like a red flag tbh

but thats just my bias showing. ignore me

[sleek egret]

in some ways it is. but it could also be that they just loved research. not good to pre-judge, IMO

I'm afraid I don't know what "ICPC" is

[near ocean]

Whats with all these goofy acronyms

[delicate bane]

[near ocean]

Use words we would all understand please

[sleek egret]

standard term for what?

You gotta remember that I left school long before you were born

[near ocean]

I've never heard of this thing before and neither has rmah apparently so whats the point in shortening it, trynna get us to google? Lol

[delicate bane]

im on mobile. im not going to google

[near ocean]

Also on mobile, on my couch with my feet up, not googling either lmao

Youre asking said boomers for help, i dont think youre doing it right

The general advice is the more extracurricular shit you do the better for you

[sleek egret]

One of these will look more impressive => https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mathematics_awards

[near ocean]

Go do your silly hackathon now

[sleek egret]

we've seen a few intern candidates that placed highly (didn't win) the Putnam prize who we looked at

I'm talking for finance/quant jobs here, of course.

look, here's the thing... you can finish an undergrad in a math-heavy major without really understanding the math. you know what I mean?

what quant finance firms are looking for is people who actually understand the math. not just the ability to mechanistically solve problems, but the talent to formulate the problems themselves. and then solve them. if you see what I mean?

no, because you don't know what the problem is yet!

[delicate bane]

hmm now i kinda wanna do a hackathon. but an in person one. and not with students lol.

[sleek egret]

even I can translate math formulas into code. and I barely know what I'm doing. what we look for is people who can craft the formulas! so to speak.

what does SLV stand for?

[delicate bane]

mathemagician

[sleek egret]

ever see the indian film "3 idiots"? it's sorta a fictional retrospective of (bad) experiences at a top indian university. it's a comedy.

[near ocean]

All of this sounds way over the top
My 2 quant friends have a combined exp of 3 years and they make £150k each no internships, no hackathons, no math competitions
Is this really necessary

[sleek egret]

one of my best friends from HS went to MIT. I visited him there many times and got to know a bunch of guys at his frat. Out of his year's graduating class, only 1 guy from his frat (out of maybe a dozen) went into a technical field.

[delicate bane]

ah yes, i forget conversations with twosig are basically like a fever dream aka erased later on

[sleek egret]

everyone went into finance or management consulting

[near ocean]

Honestly bannable offense

[sleek egret]

no, none of it is necessary. but it can help

[delicate bane]

the erasing?

[near ocean]

Yes, got modmail on top of my list, trigger finger itching

[delicate bane]

oof. what happened to the rest

[sleek egret]

you will find, as you enter the workplace that most people don't really understand what they're doing. they mostly just muddle along.

[delicate bane]

youre on mobile. its too much work

[delicate bane]

oh wait i just saw this nvm.

[near ocean]

Im at a point where i feel like this is either me or theres some secret fucking code amongst coworkers and im just not in on it yet

[sleek egret]

btw, that MIT career path is part of the reason why US industry experienced decline over the past 30 years

[delicate bane]

the finance/managment/consulting path?

[sleek egret]

yeah

[sleek egret]

well, luckily, you can go from "muddling along" to "I know what I'm doing" without too much problem. all you have to do is 1) explore your tools, 2) be willing to make mistakes, 3) practice a lot. and if you already know what you're doing, then you'll just get even better!

[delicate bane]

yknow ive heard the same said for many top universities, not just MIT

[sleek egret]

yes, that's what I meant. I was just using them as an example

[delicate bane]

ah gotcha gotcha

yeah the problem comes down to incentives, right?

[sleek egret]

partially, but how society views certain professions matters too

[delicate bane]

this is true

[sleek egret]

which, I guess is incentives too when you get down to it <shrug>

[delicate bane]

factors affecting intrinsic motivation and extrinsic motivation

[tacit condor]

Hey guys, I am Dev 16 years old
. I am looking for some internship opportunity. I am python programmer. My skills are Python, Django, Flask, sql, Html ,Css. Please let me know if you have anything for me

[pine sleet]

You may want to look for opportunities via your school and/or local community college. Have you got a resume?

[hearty island]

guys my finance prof said my excel retirement model exceeded his expectations and to enjoy my break bc i “deserve it”

he’s a hardass i wasn’t expecting him to be wholesome

[near ocean]

Good excel models deserve more praise than other languages/dev environments

[delicate bane]

congrats dude

[tacit condor]

Yeah

[hearty island]

ty ty

[hoary oak]

How could I get hired for commissions for python and what projects should I put on my portfolio

[peak halo]

there are websites like fiverr, but unless you have years of professional development experience, you're probably not going to find people who are willing to pay you to work independently.

[near ocean]

Talking about extracurriculars, for people involved in hiring here, how would you feel if a candidate mentioned they are active/part of staff in a big community server like this one?
Would you care to investigate, would it sway opinions, how does it weigh compared to OS contributions?

[regal obsidian]

Hi

[compact spoke]

Can anyone suggest a roadmap for full stack python web developer?

[coral vine]

i got another interview in my email for another company yay

but honestly i dont think im handling interview anxiety very well

also is 4 days truly a long time to be hearing back from interviewer? that's what @smoky quest said Dx

If so, then i've failed 2 interviews already

[sleek egret]

no, 4 days not a long time

[coral vine]

oh, they said it is unlikely I get picked if it's been 4 days

also i delayed that interview for 4 days cuz i got nervous, maybe that lessened my chances too. but i did say that I was excited for the role 😮

[sleek egret]

everyone says they're excited for the role. imagine someone implying the reverse

[white relic]

if everyone says they're excited for the role, you should say that too
you don't want to be overlooked because you have an understated way of showing enthusiasm

honestly that is advice more for me at the moment than for anyone else, take it for what it's worth

[coral vine]

the interview is in 2 days!

im still figuring how to write a letter to my professor asking for job connection

and dang, this whole thing is so random. I still have to update my resume ever since getting the advice here at this community. so much to dooooo, and im practicing cses, and solid principles and STAR Dx

[coral vine]

i was so excited that i delayed it,

does it raise my chances of being picked ? 😄

[white relic]

unlikely to have any effect if you only delayed it once, IMO

if you keep putting them off multiple times then that could be a problem

that aside, I wouldn't make a habit of delaying stuff because you're nervous about it, just gives you more time to be nervous

[coral vine]

my brain is all over the place with this new interviewing stuff. it's hard to believe that someone can get a job just by interviewing at a random company they applied to online that has 800+ apps. so sometimes im thinking maybe i should not try at all. and that i need to just focus more on contacting the people i know who are connected?

i mean for someone trying to get first job as SWE

[sleek egret]

yes, just give up

[dreamy patrol]

hey guys pls suggest best youtube channel for full stack development

[coral vine]

i mean the process is pretty absurd, isnt it? it's like dialing a number on the back of a cereal box to enter a lottery to win 1mil dollars, and there are other ways of making money but then you keep dialing in for more lottery winning chances o.o

and doing it through the internet seems so impersonal

i know everyone does this but why? o.o

[zealous path]

You miss all the shots you don’t take

Also lotteries are “random”

[zealous path]

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[coral vine]

it's weird but i have a thing where i just dont believe in luck at all but the extremely rare times that I would join the lottery for those prizes, either because a friend pushed me to join or i worked on some survery to help out some schoo, i've won o.o

but ya, i just think it is crazy to believe in luck, for me personally, that is how i feel

[zealous path]

I don’t believe in it but karma has been suspiciously consistent on short timescales with me

[coral vine]

and to get a job in this field, im kind of forced to participate in this whole luck thing and i question it

[zealous path]

Not exactly luck:
Large portions of candidates don’t have the skills
Some live too far away
Some are too experienced
Some have red flags

The lottery accepts everyone, job hunting doesn’t

[coral vine]

So out of 800 applicants
I guess they interview 50
Out of the 50, 10 are too experienced, 10 have red flags, 10 don't have enough skill
Which leaves 20 left
Out of the 20 left, they just pick the best cultural fit + tech alignment, etc

So it's more like a 1/20 chance, I guess?

[sleek egret]

there is no luck involved. don't subscribe the unknown to randomness

[coral vine]

this is what im trying to understand because i am new to this process

[sleek egret]

for an open position, we might get 100 to 200 resumes. we'll select 5 to 10 to interview.

we interview them, and out of the 10 interviews, 5 are people who lied and don't know what they're doing. we will decide to make offers to perhaps 2 or 3. we make an offer to the best and see if he/she accepts.

it's not "tech alignment". it's literally "does he/she know wtf he's doing?" a surprising number do not.

in fairness, when I was job hunting, many firms didn't bother to determine if candidates knew what they were doing. and you could tell if you joined that firm.

[coral vine]

wow , sudden hopefullness !

[buoyant seal]

xD fizzbuzz challenge to weed out majority

[sleek egret]

yes, essentially. and that's a bit sad, don't you think?

[buoyant seal]

yeah. it is.
perhaps it happens because software development is kind over popular.
too many brainwashing around with digital courses, promising job in it (while they reap additional money from people for education)
and it is kind of among very few proffitable professions for poor countries

[coral vine]

what happened? people quit?

[sleek egret]

no, about half were incompetent.

[buoyant seal]

my mother goes through courses like that, she tries to learn frontend, but lets be honest, she is not able to register email for herself. she does not have even chance to get a job in it with her level of technical abilities :/

[sleek egret]

why would they quit? they got a high paying job

[sleek egret]

you might be surprised. many firms hire with no technical assessment.

[true harness]

sign me up

[sleek egret]

well, maybe not "many", but a substantial fraction.

[coral vine]

imposter syndrome 9000 + sleepless nights?

[sleek egret]

you assume they care

[coral vine]

my friend was on a stretcher the other day from joining a company that was way above their skill! medical field though

[true harness]

or that they know in the first place, I guess

[sleek egret]

indeed

[sand patio]

are there, like, any summer programs and whatnot related to programming I should look out for? Would something like that look nice on my college apps?

aside from programming, I do have plans for volunteering, community involvement, and whatnot, which I'm guessing would look good as well

[delicate bane]

google summer of code

[sand patio]

hm, is registration for that still open?

[delicate bane]

dunno

[sand patio]

hmm, doesn't seen to be

[coral vine]

my resume is honest but for interviews, I didn't know things like memory management, threads, or the tech like azure/ios or principles like SOLID or "best practices" for working on corporate tech stack

im probably being very impatient with this job hunt process since ive only done 2 so far, but thanks all for elaborating a bit more on the whole interview process/numbers and all. i see it totally different now. much more hopeful 😄

[sleek egret]

you could learn about them

[spare ridge]

My father advises me to pursue a career in commerce, but I enjoy programming, and after witnessing the recession and the rise of AI, I'm really confused.

[sleek egret]

what does "business" mean to your pops?

[spare ridge]

Like commerce

[sleek egret]

how specific 😋

[spare ridge]

Accounting and all

[sleek egret]

ah, well, accounting is a fine career choice. though most could soon be put out of work by chat-gpt

or maybe not <shrug>

[spare ridge]

Right but that can happen to developers too if I'm right

[sleek egret]

indeed

[spare ridge]

Yea that's why I'm kinda confused what do u suggest

[sleek egret]

I suggest that you pursue a career path that will bring you fulfillment and happiness.

[coral vine]

i read a book that darkwind recommended here called "clean architecture". it's funny but i was thinking how useful it would have been to have read about the solid principles before working on a full stack web app. and all the ways ive violated solid principles Dx

[spare ridge]

Thank you.

[buoyant seal]

Reading books is for the greater good! 🙂

[coral vine]

it makes me question how much a person can actually learn on the job. there is so much invisible stuff to learn. like you cant see what a senior is doing. you just see the result. and you think it's just what you see. but actually theres like 9000x more to it and they are doing things like solid principles + way more. but most people dont see it at all? o.o so most people plateau because there's way more to it but we just see the surface o.o

[smoky quest]

It's not just about chances or randomly. Because if your resume is good and you have the demonstrated skills, then it's very much more than random chances that you would get an offer

[smoky quest]

You may want to read https://www.amazon.com/Managers-Path-Leaders-Navigating-Growth/dp/1491973897 It goes over the descriptions of all the roles, from the intern all the way to CTO.
It will help you understand how they all fit together and the expectations placed on you

[sleek egret]

just remember that the exact titles will vary from company to company

[smoky quest]

yeah, and learning more about the expectations of the folks about you will also help you understand why they are doing what they are doing and why they aren't doing something else

[sleek egret]

indeed. that is good advice

[delicate bane]

books >>

[coral vine]

I took so many programming classes in school. In the end, I learned nothing. The only time I ever learned was when I did the work myself or from the one professor who taught in a "principle" abstract kind of way. But essentially, she said you have to learn how to learn. That was what her class revolved around.

It's crazy when you think about it. But we put so much time into our studies but most of the efforts is fruitless because you can go years only touching the surface. Unless you think about or start your approach from the correct kind of "principles".

It's like Leetcode. You can practice so much, but if the principles never click then the efforts are fruitless o.o

Thats what I was thinking when I read about the solid principles. Even if I only understand 5% of the solid principles, it still makes building a full stack app way easier than going in blind xD

so if principles were more emphasized early on then everyone would have a lot more free time, instead of spending it quite fruitlessly? o.o like that was a lot of time i wasted learning things the wrong way, just speaking for myself. who designed this backward curriculum ? Dx

[pastel thunder]

i have some good internship at good companies in non-tech domain, will it hurt to add? i do have 5 tech internship already added (including mitsubishi and CMU)? can i cosider internship are not what causing rejection?

[true harness]

¯_(ツ)_/¯. most of my classes are theoretical

[near ocean]

You have 5 tech internships? I doubt those are to blame, most people have like 1 or 2
How did you manage to fit 5 in a degree?

[pastel thunder]

1 is continuous research, 2 summer, 3 are short through connections.

and infact i am ignoring 1 more continuos research based, cuz i have added it as research (project)

so i had 7 internships in total
but 6 meaningfull tech ones, and 5 presentable/mention worthy

hey are the recruiter thinking this(me) kid is fake?

i really sometime dont sleeps due to overload lmao

not to mention i am also from mechanical so i have taken extra courses lmaooooooooo
CS courses

[balmy mural]

You say you're getting rejections. At what point/stage are you getting rejections? Before an interview, first interview, final interview?

[pastel thunder]

i do have a job(havent joined, just offer), but want to get better, faang type, i mostly apply to jobs that need 1 or 2 yr experience.

i am working on DSA but i think my ML is strong hold, for SDE i will need MERN for which i dont have much time

before interview mostly

[coral vine]

gasp but now that I think about it, the one professor who was good at teaching programming... she was also financing more programming courses and equipment for our college.

but the other professors that werent good at teaching it had more "i'm not getting paid enough to exert effort into teaching" vibes so i guess it makes sense why my experience turned out that way xD

[smoky quest]

That is certainly a lot of internships and some people try to lie in terms of what counts as an internship.
They may want to check they are actually internships, but they will be more curious than suspicious.

[pastel thunder]

full time, above average compen.

wait let me see, i will try to see its purchase power in doller

seems to be around $60k

converting to us

[sleek egret]

you should be highly suspect of "purchasing power" numbers

quite often, they're not comparing equivalents

[pastel thunder]

thats why i said always say above average

[sleek egret]

heh

but... if everyone is above average...

[pastel thunder]

i mean, i want more, lmao

[sleek egret]

jr devs should be paid below average, right?

[near ocean]

No?

[fathom hemlock]

unless there's more juniors than seniors. some would be above average

[sleek egret]

to say otherwise means you think you'll never get better and will accept no salary growth after 5 years, 10 years, 20 years of experience

[fathom hemlock]

it seems fairly logical that they meant above average for an intern

[sleek egret]

do they though? do they really?

[sleek egret]

I'll just assume you're correct

[delicate bane]

[near ocean]

How much do you pay your juniors rmah

[fathom hemlock]

rmah is talking about the average of all devs

[delicate bane]

well yeah that would make sense. more experienced devs would command a higher salary

[near ocean]

And im sure rmah or his company pays their juniors more than the average dev makes

[sleek egret]

too much

[delicate bane]

im sure thats the nature of his industry though

[near ocean]

How come?

[fathom hemlock]

that's not mutually exclusive with being an intern

[sleek egret]

because we have to compete against other companies with way more money than us for the better candidates

[smoky quest]

full time is typically understood as a full time job, not a full time internship

[fathom hemlock]

they also called them internships

[delicate bane]

i am also wondering this since 60k is below average for usa but above average for wherever they are

[sleek egret]

for interns?

[fathom hemlock]

i wouldn't know, i suppose. i've always heard "full time" to just mean a certain number of hours of work expected per week

[smoky quest]

for EU, it would be way above average. For the USA, it would be way below what tech companies would pay

[delicate bane]

[sleek egret]

zippia says $32k is average for programming interns => https://www.zippia.com/programming-internship-jobs/salary/

[near ocean]

Full time just means they work an amount of hours per week, like more than 30 usually
It says nothing about the level of work

[smoky quest]

Right, and that's always in the context of a job. That's also shortened as FTE for Full Time Employment.

[fathom hemlock]

i'm confused what your point is. are internships not jobs?

[smoky quest]

no, internships aren't jobs. And my point is that if you tell someone you are full time, they will assume it's a job, not an internship

[sleek egret]

These guys say the average is $46k/yr => https://www.careerbliss.com/software-developer-intern/salaries/

[delicate bane]

this first one was calculating at $15/hr while the second was using $22/hr

[sleek egret]

of course, these guys say interns make $100k/yr => https://www.comparably.com/salaries/salaries-for-software-engineering-intern

I think we can safely say software dev interns make between $0 to $200k/yr equivalent

[smoky quest]

that's also because tech companies won't target the average. They target a %-tile of the market (ex: 75 %-tile)

[spark cobalt]

Interns at big tech make 6 figures. And a lot of sites have a huge bias for big tech

[delicate bane]

perfect

[sleek egret]

all firms in chicago? I should move to chicago

[delicate bane]

def >50/hr

[sleek egret]

so what do they pay entry level developers?

[spark cobalt]

I've seen 150k before lol. Amazon pays about 200k TC new grad.

[delicate bane]

total comp yeah

[smoky quest]

amazon is also backloading the equity

[sleek egret]

glassdoor says $104k salary + $37k other

[smoky quest]

I mean, 40h is the normal amount of time for full time jobs in the USA

[delicate bane]

so have you switched from quant to big tech yet

[sleek egret]

I can confirm that it is indeed better to be one of the exploiters than one of the exploited

[spark cobalt]

Summer internships aren't 40h/week?

[sleek egret]

40hrs/wk is for slackers

[spark cobalt]

Ok that's what I thought

[near ocean]

Cringe, arent you also just an employee?

[pastel thunder]

bay is crazy expensive, for decent house, 25k probably goes in rent lmao

[delicate bane]

and how are you going to do that

[sleek egret]

I am one of the evil capitalist class

[delicate bane]

lol what if he says no

[sleek egret]

my nephew says that my working life is immoral, lol

[spark cobalt]

My yearly expenses are below that lol

[sleek egret]

I will note though, that when he needs money, he comes to me for temp jobs

[spark cobalt]

And I live in Cupertino

[delicate bane]

maybe you can ask him for a temp job too

[sleek egret]

how's the weather treating these days?

[pastel thunder]

my expense from high school through undergrad arent that much

[spark cobalt]

Storm made like half of Cupertino not have electricity for 2 days which was bleh. Had to do a lot of things without Wifi and the only way to do it was be in office till midnight. But besides that it's all chillin. My area wasn't affected the most besides electricity

[pastel thunder]

my ug was like ~10k lmao

[sleek egret]

no flooding, I hope

[spark cobalt]

Nah. Every flood warning ever since I moved here was low-key a lie. Never seen any flood even in the areas with the high risk warnings.

[sleek egret]

that's good

[spark cobalt]

I think many of the floods happen more north of here

[sleek egret]

the median income in the bay area is $77k

[spark cobalt]

I pay 830/month for rent including utilities in the Bay. And I'm like 3 blocks from Apple lol

[delicate bane]

imagine nyc

[pastel thunder]

a recruiter(international) is asking my monthly salary, what should i say?
desired-little margin
OR
true?

[spark cobalt]

Yeah what rmah said. Not everyone's a SWE. How do you think the janitors, etc. are able to live there?

[smoky quest]

me too. An internship should be an immersion in the real world of the enterprise

[sleek egret]

NYC is quite large. if you want to live in a nice snooty doorman building, you'll pay a LOT. but if you're ok living in NJ or a crap place in the outer boroughs, you can find low(ish) rent

[smoky quest]

that's for a room, not a 1bdr place, right?

[spark cobalt]

My yearly expenses are under San Jose minimum wages after taxes and with a bit to save

[sleek egret]

remember, the NYC metro area has as much housing available as half of France or England

[spark cobalt]

Yeah I share apartment with my homie.

[sleek egret]

there are a LOT Of people there

[delicate bane]

but youre commuting no?

[near ocean]

You could give them a range or if you dont feel comfortable mentioning say that you "dont feel comfortable sharing salary information"

[sleek egret]

What would you say if I told you that there are apartment complexes in NYC with more people than entire towns in the bay area?

[delicate bane]

time to prepare those podcasts for the commute. jk thats what i would do

[pastel thunder]

much

[delicate bane]

def not

[spark cobalt]

NYC Subway Surfer irl

[sleek egret]

much?

[pastel thunder]

too much

[sleek egret]

CA is huge. most of it is rural or wilderness. NYC, not so much

[delicate bane]

🏄‍♂️

[spark cobalt]

I mean from personal experience, San Jose is very reasonable in expenses other than food. (My company pays for like 80% of my food which is why I'm able to keep my expenses so low)

Taco trucks are 20-30 easily

[sleek egret]

you can't possibly spend so much on food that it's a significant % of your income unless you eat from restaurants for most meals

[bright linden]

Hey guys, quick question. I'm ready to take the PCEP, but I'd like to try a mock test. Are there any free ones available? Everything I looked for costs money, I'll bite the bullet if need be, just thought I'd ask if there's any free resources someone might know. Cheers!

[sleek egret]

if you make your own taco, it's < $1.

[spark cobalt]

Yeah, Costco membership here is fucking OP

They need to open up another branch. Costco's packed even at like 2 PM on a Wednesday. Suburban moment.

[sleek egret]

I haven't been to the bay area since just before the pandemic hit

but I went to vegas twice! lol

[spark cobalt]

I took it, it's much easier than you think. As long as you've done all the exercises and projects, you're fine.

[spark cobalt]

Vegas brings back memories. Circus Circus was so much of my childhood lol

[sleek egret]

huh? what, did you perform there or something?

[spark cobalt]

Nono it's a hotel, but they had an amusement park inside which was like a big part of the fun

[bright linden]

I feel fairly confident. Guess I'll roll the dice if it's that easy. Thanks for the confidence boost bud.

[spark cobalt]

For dinners I usually eat 5-6 tacos.