career-advice

[west inlet]

ohh 2 violent on my part?

i can fuk off ... i dont care

[ivory sluice]

not sure how to answer that, i suspect there is some language barrier. but in any case if your message is not directly related to career discussion you can DM @severe widget with any questions

[west inlet]

meh ... civilized discussion was invented by roberts rules of order ... am i out of order?

[ivory sluice]

you're off topic, so if you continue to do so you'll be muted

[west inlet]

ok

[vapid jay]

!code

[west inlet]

is it out of topic? : https://www.trade-schools.net/articles/career-vs-job

[past mist]

@west inlet Ur deep!

[near ocean]

I dont think anyone is confused by the definition of the two words, why are you stuck on this

[past mist]

Why are you not stuck on anything?

[west inlet]

im not ... u kids want a job ... a career comes after a job well done ... it must be a misleading way for job seekers ... and against the rules of discord(maybe ...)

[near ocean]

A career starts with a job, of course people want a job
Do you have an objection to that?

[west inlet]

no kudos ...

[leaden jasper]

Anyway. One of the perks of remote jobs that I'm loving so far is I'm able to quickly dial into a meeting from a panera because I'm driving between 2 places to make some doctor appointments. It's damn nice that I can be this flexible.

[dreamy shadow]

Mine is not having to commute 1.5 hours one way.

[leaden jasper]

!mute 774408150119219220 1D you were literally warned above about staying on topic and contributing in a productive manner. Seriously reconsider how you interact with others on this server if you'd like to stay.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied mute to @west inlet until <t:1677881784:f> (1 day).

[delicate bane]

it is nice until they make you fly to another state due to onsites. this may or may not have happened to me this week

[smoky quest]

it's fun once in a while.
Get to meet people, have fun and some good food on the company

[celest sail]

CSec Graduate here how do you guys get a job working with 🐍. resume=“cv.%s. 🇨🇦” % my_username for reference

[smoky quest]

At the risk of being tautological, you apply to jobs that do make use of python

[celest sail]

🐍 = ['python','django','flask','mongodb','redis','kafka','aws','gcp','azure','docker',]
jobs = pickle.load(open('jobs-listings.pkl', 'rb'))
send_resume = [job.email for job in jobs if any([skill in job.description.lower() for skill in 🐍 ])]``` Please be more specific

[true harness]

there isn't really any more specific to be, given the details in your original question. are you getting interviews?

[celest sail]

No the only interviews I have gotten are through referrals

[true harness]

why didn't those pan out? if you're not getting interviews it is probably an issue with your resume. (or because you're wasting time with a list comp in any (or have poor variable names))

[celest sail]

if python 3.12 supports unicode characters I will be in business

have you looked at my resume cv.or9.ca

[true harness]

python 3.0 had unicode strings. unicode variable names are also allowed, as long as they're classified as text, iirc.

no, just send a screenshot here

[celest sail]

!e import pickle
class Job:
def init(self, title, description, email):
self.title = title
self.description = description
self.email = email
def repr(self):
return f'{self.title} - {self.email}'

jobs = [
Job("Python Developer", "We are seeking an experienced Python developer to join our team.", "[e-mail]"),
Job("Backend Developer", "Looking for a backend developer with experience in Django and Flask.", "[e-mail]"),
Job("MongoDB Engineer", "We need a skilled MongoDB engineer to help us scale our database.", "[e-mail]"),
Job("DevOps Engineer", "We are looking for a DevOps engineer with experience in AWS, GCP and Azure.", "[e-mail]"),
Job("Kafka Specialist", "We need a Kafka specialist to help us build a real-time data streaming platform.", "[e-mail]"),
Job("Docker Consultant", "We are seeking a Docker consultant to help us containerize our applications.", "[e-mail]")
]
skills_python = ['python','django','flask','mongodb','redis','kafka','aws','gcp','azure','docker',]
send_resume = [job.email for job in jobs if any([skill in job.description.lower() for skill in skills_python ])]
print(send_resume)

[inner wren]

@celest sail :white_check_mark: Your 3.11 eval job has completed with return code 0.

['[e-mail]', '[e-mail]', '[e-mail]', '[e-mail]', '[e-mail]', '[e-mail]']

[true harness]

is that your resume

[celest sail]

cv.or9.ca is a link

[thorny oriole]

is it the actual resume or just something you show the company to let them see your skills?

[true harness]

ngl the bold is really annoying

[celest sail]

https://or9.ca/home/Orion_Nelson_Resume.pdf Worse older version

[thorny oriole]

it actually looks good man, just a personal opinion though

[celest sail]

I like the look of the older one I just cant fit everything in

[true harness]

if your GPA is greater than 3 on a 4 point scale you should include it.

your bullet points are sorta ok; they say what you did, but don't describe the impact, i.e. why it's cool that you did something. numbers are good to include, e.g. "increased x by y%"

not sure if it's true, but i have heard that having links can cause resumes to be flagged by security software

it looks ok, overall. my one gripe is that you should get rid of all the bold, it's incredibly annoying

[celest sail]

https://cv.or9.ca

[celest sail]

If its the links that are screwing me over ima be so mad

[true harness]

i doubt it. if it's anything it's the obnoxious bold text

[delicate bane]

honestly i enjoyed it. but part of it was bc we also went out and got drinks afterwards lmao

plus i think im more of a hybrid > remote anyway

[celest sail]

I feel like with hybrid you might work normal hours

[thorny oriole]

maybe references can help with the resume, though I'm not an expert with resumes, it's just a suggestion (in case you have actual good references that might help you with it)

[celest sail]

@true harness how would you rewrite the comprehension without any and what do you have against snake case

[true harness]

you would use a genexp to take advantage of the laziness. i don't have anything against snake_case, the variable shouldn't be named send_resume because it's not sending resumes

[smoky quest]

Can you phrase it as a question in english?

[smoky quest]

tbh, that's exactly what it's for.
You can already work and collaborate remotely. But you can't establish social connections that way

[celest sail]

The thing is refrences are good upon request should I be asking the professors in charge of my research for letters of recommendation

[thorny oriole]

if you believe it might actually be able to help you, then I'd say that trying never hurts

[celest sail]

The code snippet uses the Python programming language to filter job listings by scanning the job description text for the presence of certain skills, represented as a list of keywords stored in the variable 🐍 (which includes skills such as Python, Django, Flask, MongoDB, Redis, Kafka, AWS, GCP, Azure, and Docker). For each job in the list of job listings stored in the 'jobs-listings.pkl' file, the code checks whether any of the skills in the 🐍 list appear in the job description text (after converting it to lowercase). If at least one of the skills is found, the email address associated with the job is added to a list called 'send_resume'. Finally, the 'send_resume' list contains the email addresses to which resumes can be sent for the jobs that require one or more of the skills listed in 🐍.

[delicate bane]

whats wrong with normal hours

[true harness]

that is not a question

[smoky quest]

So where is the problem?

[delicate bane]

this is true. i also learned a lot of culture things like which stakeholders would support which projects lmao

[spark cobalt]

My entire company's hybrid and everyone gets to set their own normal work hours. Just come to meetings and get stuff done and you're gucci

[delicate bane]

literally tea. i didnt even get to the whole politics of it

[celest sail]

No problem I just cant seem to get a job following the code snippet and I cant figure out why

[smoky quest]

Where is it failing? Do you get replies?
Feel free to send an anonymized version of your resume here for review

[true harness]

they've, above

[smoky quest]

oh

how many applications per week?

• Make it one page
• The font used to list your classes is too small
• Provide security input to projects and developing automation solutions while using an agile methodology for development and deployments. -> that type of bs as the first thing people see will make them drop off
• Your experiences could benefit from some impact
• Your projects' descriptions could be reworded for better effect
• Your projects should be above the skills and classes. Given your professional experience, I even wonder if they should be above that as well

[celest sail]

Depends probably 5 or 6 since I was busy with OA if im botting up to 500+ for glassdoor

[smoky quest]

dont bot

[celest sail]

Read the new one cv.or9.ca

[true harness]

just send a screenshot 😔

[celest sail]

https://cv.or9.ca/cv/Orion_Nelson_Cybersecurity_Resume.pdf

[vital wyvern]

Do you have a firm opinion on 1 page resumes? I have some large impact job bullets, but they tend to eat up a lot of vert. space

I've also heard more than a few recruiters now say they enjoy having skills directly at the top of the page so they can parse through it after a boolean search to double check.

well below your name and whatnot.*

[summer roost]

re: 1 page, that depends on YoE and on country, but for a junior in the US, it should absolutely not be more than 1 page.

[smoky quest]

much better!

[smoky quest]

as @summer roost said. That depends on the amount of experience

[vital wyvern]

I've heard 10 years, I'm around 8, and I'm spilling onto second page. I can condense some job titles/roles a little better I think.

[smoky quest]

tbh, that may be more of a personal opinion but I would disagree with that approach. I may also suspect that opinion is from non-technical recruiters who just care about specific keywords.
I would rather have them at the bottom because you can't reduce a person to a list of skills without context. Everyone is different and has a story. Starting with education/experience first enable you to tell your story and put the skills in context. By the time I reach the skills, I have a better idea on how they were used and how much depth you have to them

[vital wyvern]

No, I think that's a good take. Contextualizing the skills helps a bit instead of just reading a list of skills and then trying to connect them in context. I don't know, my skills list is fairly low. I feel like organizations typically have a binary choice between x or y on a lot of Analytics tools (R/Python) (PowerBI/Tableau) etc. So my skills section always feels emaciated, especially when I start trimming down to fit the job opening.

[true harness]

i've got skills under education for exactly that reason. education gives context for where i'm at, then they see skills. older versions of my resume had skills above education, and i had less interviews (anecdata)

no, that's not really how referrals work

[celest sail]

do you automate the trimming?

[vital wyvern]

Mmm, I haven't had a strict need to at this point. I try to make it a point to closely read requirements/recommendations anyway; I think it tends to help in interview questions.

[true harness]

i'm pretty sure we've talked about this multiple times at this point

[vital wyvern]

I mean you can certainly garner references from LinkedIn if you can actually engage with someone to some meaningful level.

[true harness]

i've been thinking about doing this with a few macros, but so far i haven't felt the need to

[celest sail]

I did it with spacy and its a waste of time

[true harness]

actually the cool thing to do would be to have a GUI where you'd just check off the stuff you want to put in

[vital wyvern]

Are you pursuing any actual Cybersec certs?

Sec+, CISSP, OSEP, etc.

[celest sail]

I started ISC2 but got bored I like the interesting cybersecurity stuff. I was told companies will pay for me to get certs

Sec+ was similar to some of my program coursework. Im in a weird limbo between CSEC and development

[vital wyvern]

I think if you're looking for a job, sans maybe OSEP or any of the OffSec cert stacks, you still probably want to be pursuing something to make you more marketable.

[celest sail]

Gochya what would you recommend?

[vital wyvern]

Mmm, I'm probably a shitty person to ask for that holistically; I'm going into the CyberSec field.
But all of my research indicates that there's a baseline level (at least in the US) of some Sec+ or cert equivalent to be marketable in the job space. AWSCS I think is another decent one I've heard thrown around for employability/internship pursuit during school. If you feel like you've transitioned past that point and your work experience is strong enough (which-- I don't know, some of your stuff reads more like DataEng/DataSci to me personally) then I think it's more a function of where/if you want to subspecialize.

https://discord.gg/offsec
You'll probably get some more valid advice from people in there.

There's a pretty large spectrum of CyberSec professionals, and frankly a lot of what I'm parroting is pulled from that Discord (or similar spaces for CyberSec professionals.)

[celest sail]

I'll check it out thanks for the help in any case

[vital wyvern]

Yeah, sorry if I came off as authoritative, I've been doing a crapton of research on this very topic, and my general 'circle' is people that are actively doing Cybersec in a variety of different businesses/domains, so I've had a lot of time to pick their brains and it's given me a conflated sense of knowledge at bare minimum lol

[true harness]

both

i didn't disagree with you on anything

it's my reasoning

you don't give reasoning when you're asked a question?

it only doesn't make sense because you left out the part that doesn't work 👍

[vital wyvern]

Both of you relax. Just because someone doesn't think it's reasonable to elicit networking through LinkedIn doesn't mean you need to interrogate that logic; offer a compelling counterargument or move along.
@true harness I think you're probably doing yourself a disservice by not trying to network and reach out through LinkedIn. Even if it doesn't yield direct referrals, it probably won't hurt you to start building that network.

[true harness]

i didn't say don't network. i'm saying that networking for referrals is probably not fruitful

[vital wyvern]

All of my referrals are also connections on my LinkedIn, two of them are referrals I met through LinkedIn. They weren't explicitly solicited for a referral, they were people that I clicked with and offered me mentorship and advice in the Analytics field, and I guess I left, bare minimum, a good enough impression for them to sign their name off.

[celest sail]

Linkedin only works if you know somebody I would likely have just as much luck messaging the company on instagram

[spark cobalt]

How would you know? Have you tried?

[celest sail]

Recruiters probably get so many messages that they ignore them and it likely requires premium to message them

[spark cobalt]

You don't need to get a referral from a recruiter. In fact if you're applying for an engineer role, you want an engineer to refer you.

Network to network. Referrals will come naturally.

[vital wyvern]

'Hey, reaching out because I'm interested in working at X. I saw you worked there and I was wondering if you had any advice for someone coming into the field. I'm a veteran with around 8 years of active duty military service, just leaving and getting ready to transition to the civilian sector. I'd love to have a chat with you sometime, and pick your brain on some concepts, hear your experiences, or even get some advice on my resume! Thank you so much for your time.'

[spark cobalt]

When I was networking going to irl dev meetups and whatnot, people I met there referred me to companies without me having to ask.

Just be a good person, don't be some quant wacko or crypto wacko and you'll be fine

[vital wyvern]

Yep. Be humble and personable. If you're not genuinely approaching them for advice or to genuinely connect in some meaningful way on a professional level, I think you're better off just firing a connection request and hoping they accept.

[spark cobalt]

If they have dozens or hundreds of even thousands of applicants, do you think they'll call you for more information when they already have hundreds of other's info in hand?

[celest sail]

Dark web crawling aml and threat intelligence

[vital wyvern]

I think you shouldn't be reaching out strictly for referrals.

[smoky quest]

One issue is that your resume doesn't appear to show you doing actual threat intelligence. Or am I missing something?

[vital wyvern]

They landed the job that you want. You should probably be asking them for tips, resume advice, and anything they think you could be doing better to get where they are.

[celest sail]

I think your right about that

[smoky quest]

Can you ask about doing actual research or threat intelligence?

[vital wyvern]

Then I'm not sure you're going to have very much success in networking.

[true harness]

personally i'd love to have someone ask me for tips, it definitely inflates the ego. it's probably fine

[vital wyvern]

Absolutely not. recursive_error is responsible for about 20% of the books I've bought in the last month. I've never met the guy/gal, I know nothing about them; I've still picked their brain to a great extent. If someone has something to offer to you, it's up to you to figure out if it's of value, but most people don't mind offering advice.

[celest sail]

I dont really want another research job more development and csec.

[vital wyvern]

Then thank them for their time and move on. Alternatively, ask them for tips in school, what courses they took, etc.

[smoky quest]

Can you ask about doing more development and csec?

[vital wyvern]

You're missing everything I'm saying.

[celest sail]

hope you’re doing well! I’m interested in the role you posted: Application Security Specialist. Based on my experience as Computer Security Specialist | Software Developer | Assistant Research Coordinator @ Lassonde School of Engineering, I believe I could be a good fit.

is that not sortof what the above is saying

[vital wyvern]

Yes, that's called a conversation.

Might I suggest a little humility, perhaps a slice of humble pie?

[delicate bane]

coffee 👏 chats 👏

[vital wyvern]

Yes, that's what I've been trying to tell you. Go genuinely engage the people that are where you want to be, or even that are going through the same process you're going through. We're stronger together homie.

[celest sail]

So like team lead

[spark cobalt]

How are you extracting that from that sentence.

[delicate bane]

you have to realize this. you need to build a network over time - build rapport, get to know them, etc.. it cant be the same message "hey i saw you work for this company. can you refer me to this job posting?"

that is a bit clownish imo

[celest sail]

first person that came to mind got along well with him in interview and he he connected with me but I haven't messaged him yet

[delicate bane]

i know you probably wouldnt do that but i need to point this out for the lurkers. its def a soft networking thing over time

because you never know

[summer roost]

referrals from people who don't actually know you aren't actually valuable. There's no difference to the company between a rando applying through a website and a rando getting being referred by an employee who can't hype them

[delicate bane]

where future opportunites can come from. or maybe you will be in a position in the future where you can help someone else with an opportunity, etc.

[celest sail]

How do you compete when you suck at networking then

[snow rapids]

Don't suck at coding i guess 🙂

[true harness]

it's not that easy 😭

[wise vortex]

get adopted by an extravert

[celest sail]

im far from perfect but Im somewhat competent

[summer roost]

the only time a referral really works to your favor is if people trust the judgment of the person who referred you. In that case it can help you skip through some of the initial filters, because an employee who already works at the company is willing to vouch that they think you'd be a good fit.

[peak halo]

Put that on your resume right under your name
Somewhat Competent

[true harness]

have it as a title. "The Somewhat Competent or9"

[delicate bane]

linkedin profile:
Name, Somewhat Confident Python Developer

[celest sail]

followed by Not a good salesman

[summer roost]

that's not a filter, for what it's worth. That's a sort.

[snow rapids]

It's just one off example but i have never got a job via network or referrals. In my 20 year career. So i would like to learn networking too 🙂

[snow rapids]

Is that not enough to get a decent job?

[celest sail]

like I can do fullstack and ops but frontend is a little lacking

[smoky quest]

Leave a great impression on your future ex-coworkers, and add them to linkedin.
At some point in the future, when they need to find someone awesome, they will think about you

[summer roost]

they're not throwing out resumes of people who don't meet those conditions. They're just reaching out to applicants who do meet those conditions first. If the job gets filled before they get far enough down the list to reach the no-name-university no-work-experience low-gpa people, then you're out of luck. If they burn through all of the other applicants and the job hasn't been filled yet, they'll start scheduling calls with the no-name-university no-work-experience low-gpa people.

[summer roost]

for instance, a previous manager reached out and convinced me to rejoin a company

[celest sail]

I got offered fulltime job through research referral in fourth year but couldn't start work right away because I still had half a year left to graduate. Now I regret it

[vital wyvern]

The constant conversations in here have me iterating upon my resume at an alarming rate 💅

[snow rapids]

I usually leave jobs for better paying jobs. But yeah if they wanted me back and offered pay increase i would consider it. In fact i had couple of situations like that when i think about it. I didn't consider them though for some reasons like location etc.

[smoky quest]

It's not even about going back. No one goes to a worse job anyway.
The thing is everyone is doing what you are doing. So if you leave a good impression on 20 employees at your company, chances are 15 of these fine folks will be at 15 different companies in 2 years. And some of these companies may experience some success and growth and be looking for more talent. That's where your connection comes into play

Great people want to work with great people

[snow rapids]

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you can get decent jobs without networking or being referred. I mean it's not statistical sample just my case. So ymmv

[smoky quest]

not having a network will not be a negative.
But having a network does increase your chances and reach

[snow rapids]

Yes 💯

[smoky quest]

especially when companies are about to raise a new round or go through IPO....

[snow rapids]

Yes i perhaps i should pay more attention to building a network and to maintain it over the years.

[smoky quest]

I sometimes have lunch with ex-coworkers I enjoyed working with. It's a fun and easy thing to do

[snow rapids]

Easy when you didn't relocate for a new job 🙂

[smoky quest]

yeah, changing location does mean you loose your network

[snow rapids]

When you lived in 4 countries chasing your dream job... Yes you gain something and you loose something.

LinkedIn can help a bit but never to he same as lunch irl

[smoky quest]

definitely

[celest sail]

cries in remote work

[true harness]

"no-name"
"UIUC"

[celest sail]

Crap did I go to a no name school

[vital wyvern]

I... genuinely hate quant bros. If I get this internship, I'll give you all the advice in the world, because it obviously worked out for me.

Quantitative Analytics (in this context) is just statistics applied to finance. Study statistics, get good at math, learn some degree of Python/R to be able to put your thoughts down on something other than a piece of paper.
Be a good person, and quit putting so much value in these crazy ass influencer posts; they're abrasive. Just be a good person.'

[snow rapids]

300k to 600k USD a year for fist job? I'm in 🙂

[celest sail]

What libraries do you need for Quant ML or just large graph / table calculations

[snow rapids]

Numpy maybe 🙂 i don't know actually

[vital wyvern]

I don't think quantitative analytics is strictly machine learning, there's quite a bit of overlap in the statistics minutia of it all though.

[snow rapids]

There's free MS uni. World Quant uni. Maybe i should do it then 😜

https://www.wqu.edu/

World quant uni not good you say? Waste of time?

[vital wyvern]

I feel like my qualifications have been misconstrued. I am not a financial analyst, if everything goes well, I will be a financial analytics intern at one of the big banks. Just clearing that up before we continue lol.

[snow rapids]

My school doesn't even exist for US firms lol

[vital wyvern]

I am, by trade, a maintenance and scheduling analyst. Just want to make sure we're all peeeeeerfectly clear before I continue. My foundation in statistics is rocky at best, my Python knowledge is... about 27 days old now. I can model some stuff in Python, but I am not nor will I be in the near future a Data Scientist.

[snow rapids]

If interns make half of what was quoted above still very impressive:)

[vital wyvern]

In the interest of being transparent about the figures associated, my starting salary will be just shy of 6 figures.

[snow rapids]

Everyone should stop doing whatever they do and start learning quant i think

[celest sail]

Are there any good resources to learn the math behind it as quick as possible

important research papers books etc

will rust work instead of c++ im a brainlet and its memory safe

[vital wyvern]

My analysis has time to be checked, double checked, triple checked, taken to a senior, quadruple checked, etc. It does not need to be fast, I do not need to act quickly when I identify a potential deficit to trade on or whatever.
I just need to be accurate. Because I and the individuals around me could potentially be legally liable for the analysis I sign my name on.

[celest sail]

Iv read some articles that praise it for being a more secure language

[spark cobalt]

It's getting in trend

[true harness]

it's trendy, but not actually being used, compared to C++, C

[snow rapids]

It's just stats. And every model is wrong but somewhat useful? Someone will make decision based on your model. Does that make analyst responsible if the decision was wrong?

[celest sail]

crap im trying to find the article https://orionnelson.com and click security news

[vital wyvern]

You're responsible for how you represent your conclusions still. Imagine pulling outdated data, presenting it to stakeholders, and having them act on the data you produced in a manner that caused people to lose their savings/homes/etc.

[celest sail]

So just c++ or are there any alternatives

[snow rapids]

Yep. I read about Zillow fu for their buy sell model they had.

[true harness]

OCaml is only used by jane street lol

[delicate bane]

remember when you said you werent into quant. im jk.

[snow rapids]

So job board i usually check don't have such fancy jobs.

Is it common or possible to get quant job remotely?

[celest sail]

yes please send prefered job board asking for a friend

[snow rapids]

That's a shame. I left US with no plans to come back really. Possibly mistake lol

[delicate bane]

that performance ⚙️

[celest sail]

https://www.tripwire.com/state-of-security/cybercriminal-convicted-90-million-sec-earning-reports-hack This sorta remote Quant

[snow rapids]

I mean just one year at 600k/year would be enough. Then i could go wherever i wanted 😜

[delicate bane]

would it be enough? or would you be tempted to stay and trapped by the golden handcuffs?

[vital wyvern]

Dark web scraping algorithm didn't catch that, did it 😛

[celest sail]

Na test case from a week and a bit ago
Graham Cluley is a well known security researcher

[snow rapids]

It's never enough lol

[vital wyvern]

My personal passion project at the moment is binary reversal with Ghidra. It's been a fun learning opportunity, even if a lot of it is still above my actual... knowledgebase right now. Feel like the tool is doing more than I am.

I recently found out about a very cool attack surface I'm looking to delve into, but it requires a little bit of electrical engineering, so I'm waiting to see what the budget for the project will be as I press before I actually look into pursuing it. I think it would make for an excellent portfolio addition though.

[celest sail]

Worst thing that happened to me so far is the site I was using for a demo got seized and had to rely on a backup site demonstrating live scraping. I havent used Ghidra much.

[vital wyvern]

I also frequently worry that messages like that will pop up in this last interview.

[delicate bane]

save a recording just in case?

[celest sail]

Iv done some protocol and hid what Ghidra resources are you using to learn

[delicate bane]

[vital wyvern]

Right now, it's a lot of YouTube videos and google. I wouldn't say I have a discrete single resource I'm following along with.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4Pgi5XML8E
I stumbled upon it from a John Hammond video, thought 'hey that looks cool' and went from there. This video series has probably been my most referenced.

[celest sail]

I hate learning off youtube but John Hammond is pretty good

[vital wyvern]

As do I but finding written resources for Ghidra has been remarkably difficult.

[celest sail]

Initial chatGPT was pog forbidden knowledge ^^

[vital wyvern]

Also we're probably straying off topic now, I apologize for dragging us down this road. Poke me in #cybersecurity or one of the off topic channels if you wish to continue the conversation. 🙂

[celest sail]

I think im going to head out take care

[charred spade]

How important are algorithms for passing a data science interview? What about data structures?

[smoky quest]

it's quite important since it's used in many places

[stone marlin]

What do you guys think is the best branch of python to learn for a job

[charred spade]

Whatever you're interested in. Pretty much all programming jobs offer a decent salary, and enjoying your job (or at least not hating it) is the most important part, so.. do what you want to do

[snow rapids]

depends on the interview 🙂

i had DS interviews where these questions were not asked, but also had some that were, so 🤷‍♂️

[snow rapids]

probably depends on the job market in the area (like location) you want to get a job in

[pastel thunder]

follow up question (i asked weather too small startup are safe to join or no)
so, i saw a job posting for this company,
they have received a pre-seed funding(undisclosed)
and seed funding (about 2 million dollar) https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tech/startups/self-driving-startup-minus-zero-raises-1-7-million-in-funding-led-by-chiratae-ventures/articleshow/91735958.cms
so, can i get some advice on job safety while joining these startups? and also how will switching look like after that?
and one more question i would prefer MSCS after 1 year, so how good/bad of a move is it to join startup?

[fluid crypt]

hey all,
just want to share with you my job update.
finished my internship in Data Science and got promoted to Associate Data Scientist! lets connect 😃
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/activity-7035904031713583104-WJnl?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_desktop

[white relic]

You got some good advice last time. If the work sounds interesting, there's no harm in applying and interviewing to see what the company is like before you make a decision. (Assuming you are just thinking of applying and haven't got an offer in hand yet.) Worrying about your job security before you even know if they are interested enough to interview you is putting the cart before the horse.

[spark cobalt]

The only thing in your control in regards to job safety is exceeding expectations, continuously contributing, always looking for ways to improve, etc.

[white relic]

There's always risk involved with any job. No job is 100% secure. It's true startups are more risky than other kinds of businesses, but if you want the job, it might be worth it.

[spark cobalt]

In general, the smaller the startup, the bigger tasks you'll take on but in turn you might be expected to put in extra hours at a lower compensation.

If you're just looking for money and to just coast in your career, startups might not be your flavor.

[white relic]

Startup culture can be pretty intense. You may be expected to work long hours and the compensation may not be commensurate. 1.7 million in seed funding doesn't go very far tbh.

[spark cobalt]

1.7m btw is only a couple senior engineers. People are expensive. Not to mention any other costs...

[white relic]

If you could tell right now whether a given startup would succeed or fail, you could make better money investing in them than getting employed 😛

[spark cobalt]

I'm praying for that in my company rn. This year will tell if we'll make or break, super pivotal...

[white relic]

i would prefer MSCS after 1 year, so how good/bad of a move is it to join startup?
that would be another question to raise in the interview. If they expect you to be on call / working late a lot, that would interfere with getting a MS. You can also ask if they offer education assistance, although I would guess startups don't tend to do that

[pastel thunder]

i am planning to leave it afterwards, if theres no bond

[pastel thunder]

there compensation is more than twice what normal ML roles give
1.7 M dollar in terms of india are worth probably 5+M if we go buy how much it buys in USA

they are less than 50 people

[white relic]

still not that much

as a startup you spend a lot of money chasing after other money

and they have to make that last until the next big injection

that said, if you know how much the compensation is, you know the work culture and expectations, and you think the risk of catastrophic failure in the next year or however-long-you-plan-to-work-there is low, go for it

if you don't know all those things, it's probably because you haven't even applied and interviewed yet, and you're overthinking it

[pastel thunder]

understood.

[delicate bane]

good luck.

[surreal sluice]

hi, I just got laid off. Now for the next job I am trying to get into audio or graphics programming with Python.
Does anyone know how can I look for these jobs and what things I need to know to get hired?
I have around 2 years of professional python experience btw. Not very experienced as a developer in terms of years.

[zealous path]

What would you be doing in audio or graphics programming?
Need to see if Python even would be an appropriate language for that.

[deep stratus]

Can someone help me land a job with amazon

I dont know coding so pls help, i applied for the money

[zealous path]

Workhouse worker should be easy

[deep stratus]

ITS SOFTWARE JOB THO

[zealous path]

Don’t do that, you’ll quit or be fired quick

[deep stratus]

its ok i will learn in summer

[zealous path]

Never do programming just for the money, it doesn’t work.
You’ll either not do well and be fired or burn out and just quit

[deep stratus]

i kinda like programming it’s satisfying when u finish it

But i didnt learn java i learned html

[zealous path]

Also, good idea to be able to do the tests yourself. ESPECIALLY when applying to FAANG.
There are a lot of VERY smart people entering so we could help you with a take home task but discord can’t help you in a live interview.

[deep stratus]

Fuck

[near ocean]

This is career discussion, not "help me cheat my interview"

[deep stratus]

Its basically a career

[near ocean]

Its not on topic, move to a different channel

[zealous path]

We’ll guide you to resources and how to prepare for a FAANG job but we won’t get the job for you

[deep stratus]

Yeah thats ok, that would be amazing

[near ocean]

Are you a CS student? How come you need help with squaring a number?

[true harness]

you didn't have to do them like that

[deep stratus]

Its more idk where to write the code 😔

[near ocean]

In the box titled Editor?

[zealous path]

I get where Meap is coming from.
I also fully self taught myself coding as a hobby so I never learnt how to properly do test cases

[deep stratus]

Ty pogrammer

[true harness]

but at the point when you were trying to apply for jobs, you must have done a leetcode or similar

[zealous path]

My code you literally just be

X = int(input())
print(X**2)

[zealous path]

I got in as a data analyst so my technical tasks where data based and not programming.
I learnt how to use Git on the job for example.

[near ocean]

Thats not valid java though

[peak torrent]

is Ohio recognize to have a lot software jobs?

[zealous path]

… then why the hell is Meap asking on this server and not the Java one…
sigh

[zealous path]

There is a singular Ohio programmer
Their code is:
print(str(“Welcome”), “to” + str(“Ohio”))

[sleek egret]

hey, I grew up in ohio

[pine sleet]

my condolences

[sleek egret]

thanks 🙂

[surreal sluice]

well mostly I have seen that C/C++ is used for audio/graphics but I thought maybe somewhere apps would also be using python idk. I was thinking that maybe I should get into C++ for these domains but then many people told that I would be maintaining legacy code and there's not much future in C++ career. Also so far I have professional coding experience in python only. What would you guys suggest?

[zealous path]

Those people are lying.
Whoever told you there’s no career is C++ is
🧢 ing

[surreal sluice]

any suggestions what should I do next now? I am not sure how to break into these domains.

[zealous path]

I’m no expert but I’d:

1. go on a job board
2. search ideal job position
3. check tech stacks for each posting
4. learn the common ones

[surreal sluice]

would my experience so far will not be considered then since I will be changing my whole game?

[zealous path]

It definitely will be considered.
Employers rarely care about which tech stack you know. The key part they look for is: do they know ANY programming language in the field and can they show they’re willing to pick up new langauges

[near ocean]

Relevant experience ranks higher than any experience
Other candidates would have relevant experience

[zealous path]

Obviously a C++ job will take a C++ dev over a Python one
BUT they will also take a Python dev over no dev

[near ocean]

Its not usual that a job has no applicants on it though or no applicants with the relevant experience, the point is you shouldnt expect much response from ads you dont match closely enough in terms of ability

[surreal sluice]

I think I will try to learn some openal or something for audio. Is it time to start leetcode grind again? 🤔

[zealous path]

Well if you got Python and C++ on your CV then that’d look good if that’s what stack the jobs work with

[surreal sluice]

yeah right. Thanks guys.

[covert elk]

anyone has bharat acharya ARM7 course? dm please

[near ocean]

What does that mean

[fossil flower]

how to add a value to the dictionary dictionary?

[surreal sluice]

yo I did not know python is available in different languages

[near ocean]

Its in english but thats not really a question for this channel

Anyway, do hiring managers, HR, recruiters care about the shadiness of your current or previous jobs?

[fossil flower]

I just want to enter a value into the Dl key

[near ocean]

This isnt the channel for python help my guy, #python-discussion #1035199133436354600

[fossil flower]

okey

[sleek egret]

It varies, but yes, some will care a bit. Few people will care a lot though.

That's assuming the shadiness did not lead to criminal charges, of course.

[fluid shoal]

Hey, I was hoping to get some of your thoughts on my career options

I am currently doing a course in collage that does some cloud, cisco and data security. I have discovered that it honestly is not for me but I have really enjoyed doing python projects with my partner outside of college. Do you think I should do a different course next year?

[sleek egret]

that's an odd question. what's your real question?

[fluid shoal]

Honestly dude, I am bit lost. I find myself trying my hand at something and quitting it a few months later, not out of laziness but out of boredom. I was hoping that doing something complex would help me avoid this.

[sleek egret]

will it?

[fluid shoal]

not sure honestly. Just gotta keep trying things until something sticks

[sleek egret]

ok, I don't mean to be unempathetic, but do you understand that your first question was sort of like saying "I tried chocolate ice cream at school but didn't like it much. I had a little vanilla with a bud and liked it. should I eat vanilla ice cream in school next year?"

can you see how that question seems... odd?

well, maybe "confusing" would be a better description

[spark cobalt]

What's holding you back from trying vanilla ice cream fully?

Major changes are pretty common, it's not as if you need to make the first choice correctly

[fluid shoal]

Don't worry you are not being unempathetic. I guess I want to finish the chocolate ice-cream first

[sleek egret]

the generic advice is "do what you enjoy". but you know this already. so...

so finish it first then. or don't. do what you want. <shrug>

is it that you're afraid of making the "wrong" choice? if so, then don't worry, either choice is fine.

[fluid shoal]

I guess that is true sometimes you just need conformation from others. I think I'll finish it then start a development course next year. I just don't want to feel like I am quitting

[near ocean]

Not illegal but definitely shady, like the gambling industry, tobacco, oil and gas, military, etc

[sleek egret]

none of those things are "shady". unless you're a teenager

[fluid shoal]

thank you btw dude!

[sleek egret]

you should feel like you're quitting. because you are.

my life advice to you is this: life is full of choices. making a choice to do A means you're not doing B. Just accept it and move on.

[fluid shoal]

That is very fair!

[sleek egret]

quitting is not necessarily a bad thing. for example, when playing poker, you fold most of the time. that's "quitting", isn't it?

other times quitting is very bad. as you gain experience, you will learn to figure out which is which

[fluid shoal]

I am quitting but not giving up. I am choosing to do what is better for me

[spark cobalt]

Don't feel obligated to finish things with time you could've spent starting something better

[sleek egret]

you'll find out if it's better in a decade or so. best of luck

[spark cobalt]

You'll ultimately never finish.

[fluid shoal]

I have ADHD so quit a tone of things quite often so that is why I don't like the feeling of quitting

[spark cobalt]

It won't help if you don't enjoy doing it.

[fluid shoal]

That's true

[sleek egret]

again, don't take this the wrong way... but ... in a few years, you need to stop saying that. to most adults it sounds like a lame excuse.

[fluid shoal]

Yeah exactly and that is why I don't like quitting

[sleek egret]

while you're young, people in authority over you will accept excuses for shortcomings because they hope/expect that you'll try to improve. but after you are an adult, no one will care and just making an excuse will be seen as a negative.

[celest sail]

If a project is too time consuming you can come back to it later when better technology exists for example my automatic coverletter for job listing project diddnt make sense without acess to gpt3.5 api since gpt-j-6b was lacking. That doesnt mean the other work you have done is useless you just dont have a reason to continue working on the project yet.

I have 100s of unfinished python projects they just ended up not being good ideas or not usefull enough

[sleek egret]

Taking an alternate path at your age isn't really "quitting" as much as, well, just taking an alternate path. no one will care in a year or two

[summer roost]

Are you treating it? ADHD is just about the most treatable mental disorder.

[sleek egret]

iow, don't sweat it

[fluid shoal]

yeah that's fair. I forget how young I am, I feel 40 lol

[celest sail]

Drink a protien shake with your ADHD meds pro tip

[sleek egret]

not talking about @fluid shoal in particular here, but I've noticed that many young people say they have XYZ or ABC psychological condition as an excuse for their behavior. And they are almost never actually diagnosed for said condition.

that is, they use the conditions as descriptive rather than literally

[fluid shoal]

i treat it but not with medication but I practice mindfulness and other things like that

[summer roost]

Everyone I personally know with an ADHD diagnosis found medication to be life changing. Consider medication.

[fluid shoal]

yeah that is very true. I didn't know i had it until my collage tested me so only just found out

[sleek egret]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest that you try to improve your self-discipline. that is, being able to 1) decide to do something and then 2) actually doing it. start small. easy immediate objectives. then increase the time frame and difficulty. little by little. make it a habit.

[spark cobalt]

Lots of people my age are quick to map discomfort to this.

[sleek egret]

Understand that everyone loses focus, everyone gets bored, everyone changes their mind, etc, etc. it's just a matter of degree. and self-discipline.

[summer roost]

I don't think that's age specific, honestly. I know plenty of older people who say "I'm so OCD"

[fluid shoal]

Yeah that is good! I have 3 kids so I find it is easier to follow through on projects and activities I do with them

[sleek egret]

also, in what I said above, make your decisions consciously. maybe even write them down if you need to do that to take your decisions seriously.

[delicate bane]

i think its maybe bc of the effect of technology on all of our attention spans atm

[spark cobalt]

That's pretty fair. I just see more of the excusing part in people my age.

[sleek egret]

and by starting small, I mean small. like 1) decide to go to bed at 11pm. then 2) do it. or 1) decide to have pizza for dinner today, then 2) do it.

[spark cobalt]

Also just self victimization. People victimize themself to excuse from their unmet potential.

[sleek egret]

gradually ramp it up

[fluid shoal]

I dislike when people think because they have a personality trait they can compare it to a mental illness

[true harness]

I think it's a lack of accountability

[sleek egret]

you have to learn to become accountable to yourself.

[spark cobalt]

And discipline too yeah 100% agree

[fluid shoal]

yeah defo man!

[spark cobalt]

Working hard is never fun! But it's typically very rewarding 🙂

[sleek egret]

many young people do not take their decisions seriously unless it's externally enforced

and given the extreme amount of choice and freedom in our society to day, this can lead to a lack of direction

[delicate bane]

its probably a side effect of media like youtube nowadays

[fluid shoal]

yeah I do a lot of hiking I find that a perfect metaphor for hard work and pushing through

[spark cobalt]

Only the victims get coverage

[wheat imp]

hiiiiiiiii

[spark cobalt]

Hello

[fluid shoal]

hey

[wheat imp]

so excited to be here now cz i recently started seriously programming in python

[summer roost]

Trying to push through life with an unmedicated mental disorder is like hiking in sneakers instead of boots. You can do it, but it's nothing to brag about, and is the wrong choice for just about everyone.

[fluid shoal]

Yeah it is important to be prepared and have a goal

[summer roost]

And it's a good way to hurt yourself.

[fluid shoal]

It is also important to rest

Hiking is a great metaphor if I do say so myself

[sleek egret]

I hiked up a mountain (and down) with no trail barefoot once. it was a bad decision.

[pine sleet]

and i suppose you went uphill both ways

[sleek egret]

thank the gods, no

[pine sleet]

it would be a very goofy mountain if it was built that way

[sleek egret]

indeed

[delicate bane]

or get pushed up the algo

also wilder

its not a full conference but im thinking of going to a happy hour thing. many of the peeps from the previous conference will be there too

[gaunt wren]

how do you deal with motivation

without your meds i mean

[fluid shoal]

I don't it's my biggest struggle. I get excited about something and then jump to something completely different once I'm bored of it

[gaunt wren]

same but for me its as soon as i start finding it hard i jsut cant do it anymore

[fluid shoal]

If you gameify it, it becomes easier

[zealous topaz]

been using chatgpt for interview practice. you have to be very specific with instructions to use it as if you are in real interview, but so far it's just incredible tool

[gaunt wren]

care to elaborate how to gamify

[snow rapids]

Can you share prompt? 🙂

[sleek egret]

I once had a dream that I had a single very long nose hair. do you think chatgpt dreams such dreams?

[fluid shoal]

So for example I just started doing cold showers. I try beating the previous day's record of how long I stay in

[gaunt wren]

adhd sucks

[fluid shoal]

Try this "you are an interviewer for X and you backstory if you understand do not respond just type..." Then start the interview

[spark cobalt]

I would not do this considering there's free platforms online to do mock interviews with an actual human.

[fluid shoal]

Bro I just found out I had it, I thought I was just lazy 😂. I've been tested by college now I need to go to the doctor's for them to properly diagnose me to allow me to get meds. If I was less responsible I'd skip that step and spend some Monero

[gaunt wren]

ive had it since 10 years old, been taking meds for 11 years

[sleek egret]

have the meds helped to meaningfully change your behavior?

[fluid shoal]

I haven't taken meds yet as I don't like going to the doctor's. I've found meditation, cold showers and binural beats help with focus and motivation though

[sleek egret]

IMO, motivation is a myth. it's just a word people attach to impulses they like (vs impulses they don't like).

IMO, of course

[dreamy shadow]

Bills are a great motivation

[fluid shoal]

Will power is real and there is a fair bit of science behind how it works and how to improve it

[sleek egret]

sure, but the use of will power is self-discipline, not motivation

[fluid shoal]

You're telling me. I have 3 kids, a mortgage and I'm only 22 😂

[zealous path]

👀 people need to raise the legal age limit at which you can have kids

[sleek egret]

look at it this way, in ye olden days, you'd be old enough to be a grandfather

[sleek egret]

there is no legal age limit

[zealous path]

Then raise it from 0

[sleek egret]

I'm not a fan of pursuing criminal prosecution of minors for getting knocked up

[dreamy shadow]

of minors? no, of the parents? yes

[sleek egret]

then who will care for the new parent (and baby)?

[zealous path]

Ok ok, i know i opened this can of worms but I’m CLOSING IT

[sleek egret]

you can't close a can once you open it, man

[fluid shoal]

I'm actually a really good father, we have a stable home, hence the mortgage lol

[analog sun]

This is wildly off topic for this channel

Lets stick to #career-advice while here

[fluid shoal]

Yeah sorry about that. To clarify before we change the topic I was 19 when my first son was born.

[sleek egret]

my last words on this: I give @fluid shoal a double ++ for doing the right thing

[zealous topaz]

the way i do it is based on the interviews I had with multiple clients. Basically like this:

Let's do role play:
you are interviewer trying to hire [position you are looking for]. I'm the interviewee. You are looking for candidate who has experience in [skills required for the position]

You are going ask 1 question at a time. You are going to ask 1 question for coding, 1 sql question for query (you have to provide tables), and x number of concept questions regarding all topics listed.

rules:

1. You cannot ask multiple questions in a row. 2. Once I answer sql question, then proceed to ask 1st concept question. Once I answer 1st concept question, proceed with 2nd concept question. and so on
2. you cannot also provide answer for questions asked. Wait until I answer sql question.
3. Only ask questions once I submit the answer for previous questions
   ============================================
   modify as you see fit

[snow rapids]

I was listening to John Lennon - working class hero song this morning and my productivity was so low. Too emotional (too real?) song for a career in coding lol.

[gaunt wren]

bruh holy shit you were wild

[gaunt wren]

what do you do for a job?

[fluid shoal]

I live in Scotland so I'm paid to go to college around £900 a month. I also do marketing on the side for a digital privacy podcast. I'm studying cyber security and networking at the moment. How about you ?

[gaunt wren]

back up you are paid to go to college

[fluid shoal]

Yeah it's normally only £400 a month but I qualify for £900. It makes sense though like for a country to invest in upskilling its people. I don't want to get political but the ROI for the government is great if you can take unskilled workers and make them high earners who pay more tax. I'm very privileged that I'm able to study for free

[gaunt wren]

yeah you are def im 19 and cant do shit cause i dont have any money and live in a racists country (towards white people)

so its super duper hard to get a job if your arent black(no rascism intended potential karens)

[fluid shoal]

I originally wanted to do cyber security but I'm thinking of doing software development now

[gaunt wren]

i also want to do software i want to do a bachelors in software engineering

[fluid shoal]

It's still early days for me though. I only just wrote my first bit of code without a tutorial and only looking at the documentation on the API

[gaunt wren]

my greatest achievement is making a loop in python

then i got stuck and now cant continue

[spark cobalt]

What is your plan?

[gaunt wren]

were you there when i asked the other day?I think i recognise your name

[spark cobalt]

I recognize your name as well

[fluid shoal]

What are you stuck on?

[gaunt wren]

i need to go back and solidify my foundation with if else and while statments

[fluid shoal]

You okay if we take this to #python-discussion or something so we aren't spamming career

[gaunt wren]

we can stay here i think

[gaunt wren]

dunno im either going to look for a job or devote all my time to a course of some sort for web dev (cause it generlly has the least exp thresh hold)and try to get a job with that and then pay for GED then register at uopeople

[spark cobalt]

How are you surviving? (Like with savings? Living with parents?)

[fluid shoal]

Okay. My advice [as a noob] just do a full tutorial on how to build a quiz or something then at the end just start messing with the code and changing things. If I don't understand a concept I ask chatgpt to explain it to me like I'm 5 then 10 then 16

[gaunt wren]

living with grandparents (im turning 19)

[spark cobalt]

Gotcha.

I would go down to basic concepts and start with books rather than build things out that use concepts you're unaware of.

It's very easy to get into tutorial hell as a beginner if you follow tutorials without understanding the intentions behind the decisions they make.

And 99/100 times, the intentions are not shared in a beginner friendly way

[fluid shoal]

He's got ADHD so I'd assume being doing is easier than reading and researching

[gaunt wren]

a normal entry level job in my country like cashier or fast food worker is $165

[fluid shoal]

At least that's the case for me

[delicate bane]

tutorial hell

[gaunt wren]

funny thing is im a avid reader(i read like 600000 words a week)

around 300 ch a week

[spark cobalt]

Books in general will be better than videos:

• Everyone reads a much higher WPM than listening/watching.
• Navigation in books compared to videos is much easier to do.
• Books are generally peer reviewed by dozens of professionals with immense YOE and continuously updated in new editions.
• Videos on the other hand are generally made by people with very limited experience in the SWE field and not updated so much (from what I've seen.)

[gaunt wren]

can you recommend any books?

[spark cobalt]

Among many other reasons.

For the start, I would avoid Youtube like it's the plague, and then once you're solid on concepts and you're aware of the decisions the video creators are doing, then you start using it, being able to critique the video author's choices etc.

By default, you should treat Youtube videos as a series of opinions.

[fluid shoal]

I don't read I need to use audible 😂

[spark cobalt]

!resources Has a few to start off with. Generally we recommend How to Automate The Boring Stuff in Python.

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[spark cobalt]

Ensure that you're practicing while reading through the book. Not only just the code examples in the book, but also just experimenting with the concepts being taught.

[sleek egret]

it's not that videos are a bad learning tool, per se. it's that audio/visual presentations (e.g. youtube, lectures, etc) are best at helping you believe you understand a concept. but reading and practicing are best at helping you actually understand a concept.

[gaunt wren]

i read light novels but im sure it can be extrapolated

[sleek egret]

if you've ever watched a video on something technical and then tried to put the concepts in the video into practice you'll know exactly what mean

[gaunt wren]

yeah thats why im stuck with if else and while

[sleek egret]

so, IMO, things like videos are good for providing context or a very high level overview. but, that's about it.

[gaunt wren]

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[spark cobalt]

Avoid videos avoid videos avoid videos. 99/100 of video creators I vet all have 0 YOE and it's like

[fluid shoal]

I GTG but it was good talking

[spark cobalt]

Same with many Udemy course creators. In fact so many of the Udemy course creators don't have CS degree but a business

[sleek egret]

say you want to learn about closures. watch a video about them to get an overview and context. then read about closures. then use closures. then read again and you'll find bits that you didn't understand before make sense. then use them again. rinse and repeat until you actually understand.

when you think you understand, try to teach someone about closures. you will often find that you still don't really understand. so repeat the above steps a few more times until you do. 🙂

[gaunt wren]

how about networkchuc>' '>

[gaunt wren]

i infact pirate all the udemy courses i want

i currently have 150 gb worth( i havent done a single one)

[spark cobalt]

Same with me, but for books

[sleek egret]

I don't watch programming videos often but I've seen a few with outright mistakes in them. which is a bit disconcerting.

[spark cobalt]

Oh I've read quite a few...

[dreamy shadow]

ಠ_ಠ

[sleek egret]

like, not just "that's not the best way", but simply wrong.

[spark cobalt]

And the shit is like the comment section is all so supportive and clueless to these it's stupid.

[sleek egret]

that's because the channel owner can delete comments

so they often delete anything negative

[gaunt wren]

have you guys heard of 100 days of code?

[dreamy shadow]

Ever since dislikes disappeared, youtube tutorials lost their weight.

[gaunt wren]

its a udemy course

[sleek egret]

I have not. and IMO, you would be better served thinking in terms of 10,000 days of code

[spark cobalt]

The one by Angela? Yeah she has 0 YOE as a SWE.

[gaunt wren]

[spark cobalt]

Vet the hell out of resources you use. If they have 0 YOE or only very limited experience toss it out.

[gaunt wren]

pls use full word i dont understand the abb yet

[spark cobalt]

YOE = years of (professional) experience
SWE = Software Engineer

[gaunt wren]

oh thx that explains why im lost then

[spark cobalt]

You have the ability to learn from the best of the best, ensure that you do.

[vapid jay]

I want to become a SE

[spark cobalt]

Don't go to the Tech With Tims of Youtube

[zealous topaz]

i'm for vids. i've seen great vids so far - including udemy too. yes you have to be careful with which vids you watch though

[zealous topaz]

start with this

https://youtu.be/8mAITcNt710

[knotty drum]

whats abb

[vapid jay]

its a day long man

[spark cobalt]

Abbreviation

[knotty drum]

What's wrong with tim 😦

[zealous topaz]

what you think it's easy to become se

[knotty drum]

Heh ye that was a joke because he said he didn't understand abbreviations

[spark cobalt]

Reading WPM is almost 2x more than listening WPM. Not everyone has time to burn.

[knotty drum]

And used an abbreviation get it funny joke

[dreamy shadow]

d-d-d-dad?

[spark cobalt]

dy

[vestal kettle]

I just see a job post of looking for junior developer and it wanted master degree ... And its pay is quite low too

Is this normal in the UK?

[zealous topaz]

you could also speed up playtime. helps you in many ways

[sleek egret]

juniors indeed make less than seniors

[spark cobalt]

That's the same thing as just glossing through books. Not sure what help you're talking about.

Your brain literally cannot process listening as fast as reading. Making the audio faster makes the issue worse.

[spark cobalt]

Pay in the UK is much, much lower than US.

[spark cobalt]

0 YOE.

[vestal kettle]

I mean it normally pays £30000-40000+ per year for that qualification and as junior (YES, junior and not typo) role.

That post only gives £23000-27000

[sleek egret]

if that's normal, that means half makes less

[spark cobalt]

There's always a lower end of payscale for same qualifications. This isn't a UK specific thing.

[sleek egret]

people in india make half that

less than half that, actually

[gaunt wren]

this is a long shot but does anyone here own a hot sauce business

[sleek egret]

no, but I know a guy who started an iced tea business that he eventually sold to coca cola

[gaunt wren]

liptin?

[sleek egret]

um, no. lipton was started over 100 years ago. I'm not that old, lol

[gaunt wren]

is there like a business discord of some sort

[sleek egret]

also, lipton is owned by Ekaterra, a dutch company

I see that it used to be part of unilever

[gaunt wren]

im half dutch

[spark cobalt]

I'm wan hundred percent Chinese

[vapid jay]

no but its one whole day long

[zealous topaz]

just break it down and study 1 hour per day. no need to watch everything in one day

or 30 mins

[gaunt wren]

wa i cant make a gofundme

[analog sun]

Let's stay on topic here in this channel

If it's not #career-advice , it can take place in #ot1-perplexing-regexing (which doesn't have a slow mode either)

[gaunt wren]

would this also add to bad videos ?

https://www.udemy.com/course/automate/

[knotty drum]

i think the main takeaway is to research your sources, and if you rely solely on videos you should really expand to reading, but you could probably get away with relying solely on reading

[gaunt wren]

i just realised the whole course is free if you look at the preview

[gaunt wren]

is reading the better option?

[white relic]

books are capable of holding more material, using space more efficiently to explain difficult topics, are more easily searched and it's easier to jump around in them to refresh yourself on something or reread something you missed the first time. A single book can teach a lot more than a whole course of videos. That said, there are bad books, just like there are bad videos - you have to be careful about sources no matter how you try to learn.

Many people struggle with learning from books. For those people it will probably be harder to learn some things because not all information is available in, basically, pre-digested video form. Bear in mind videos take way more prep time to make than books, in terms of information density.

Videos also tend to be updated less often, and mistakes are less likely to be corrected because editing a video is very different (and more difficult) than editing a book.

that's a whatsapp link

[analog sun]

Also, it is not relevant to the channel topic, so I have removed it

[delicate bane]

is it just me or does it feel like everyone im talking to has had layoffs in their company? or its just a type of convenience bias? met a ton of strangers this week where this happened at their company

[peak halo]

I think you mean confirmation bias, but I've been noticing it, too. we can be confirmation biased together.

[smoky quest]

There have been quite a few lay offs.
Just work for a company that is growing 😎

[brazen comet]

Hey guys! I was on here a while ago, but just wanted to share that I got admitted into Arizona State University for B.S. in Data Science. Unfortunately this was my second choice major as i originally intended on Computer science. Does anyone know if I am able to transition into ML development and/or continue a double major into CS in order to head down that ML pathway?

[peak halo]

do you have a link to the list of requirements for your specific program?

it might be this one, but in my experience, the online program for a given degree will be slightly different (and have much better SEO for its requirements page) https://asuonline.asu.edu/online-degree-programs/undergraduate/data-science-online-degree/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_content=BR_UG_Data-Science_Non&utm_campaign=22-Nat_Acq-Hi_BR_Programs_UG_Non&utm_ecd22=22&utm_term=arizona state university data science&gclid=Cj0KCQiA0oagBhDHARIsAI-BbgekElhDRhkLpmUe1DYPGtIwtETzR_fRGBkAB_sGGWIWkH-lqKHFVAsaAqbKEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

[dreamy shadow]

You could ask admissions if you could transfer programs later on. (Generally year 1+2 years of US universities share a lot of general courses even more so with DS & CS).

[brazen comet]

I found this major map for the degree. They are almost exact for ASU Online https://degrees.apps.asu.edu/major-map/ASU00/LADATSCIBS/null/ALL/2020

[peak halo]

One thing that immediately sticks out to me is that the data science program is under the college of liberal arts and sciences, and the computer science program is under the school of engineering. unfortunately, this works against the likelihood that you'd be able to smoothly transition from one to the other.

[dreamy shadow]

This is probably due to the fact that Math & Stats can fall under Arts and Sciences. DS being a combined of both CS & Stats

It still has courses in CSE, which looks like part of engineering

[peak halo]

I see that as well

[brazen comet]

I do plan on asking my advisor if this is a possibility. As I am a transfer student, I assume they'd want to gauge my performance first

[peak halo]

ultimately, you need to bring this question to an academic advisor. this should be a fairly usual question for them. but one thing you can do for now is see how much overlap there is in the requirements for the two programs. and any time you have choices in the data science program, you should pick whichever would count towards the CS program.

https://degrees.apps.asu.edu/major-map/ASU00/ESCSEBS/null/ALL/2023
https://degrees.apps.asu.edu/major-map/ASU00/LADATSCIBS/null/ALL/2020

[dreamy shadow]

Ah, if your transfer student they might have accepted you into DS program instead of CS as a better chance to succeed.

[brazen comet]

This was ultimately what was conveyed to me when I got admitted, as it was stated that i didn't meet requirements for the CS degree. I'm hoping that I could change this later on

[dreamy shadow]

If you really want to go to ASU, then just get in first and transfer later.
If CS is the main field you want to go into, see if you can transfer to another school that has CS.

[peak halo]

looking at the requirements for the data science program, it looks like they do have a machine learning course. (and it's unusual for an undergraduate program--including CS--to have multiple ML course offerings anyway.)

you should probably take "Calculus with Analytic Geometry I and II" instead of the "Calculus for Engineers" ones

[brazen comet]

I do want to ask, as it's not really explained that well on the site, any clue as to why i should choose Analytic Geometry over the Engineers course? what's the difference?

[dreamy shadow]

In my university, there was a "calculus for CS/SWE" and "calculus for Math/Stats". The latter goes into more detail and is more difficult lol.

[peak halo]

the "with analytic geometry" ones are probably the calculus courses that math majors take, and the math courses for mathematicians are probably going to be more rigorous.

[brazen comet]

I wanted purse my undergrad studies while at ASU, and since I'm located near Seattle, was hoping to gain my Master's over by University of Washington.

[brazen comet]

That does make sense. I'm assuming this will aid me better in the long run?

[peak halo]

ML depends on calculus. and my (ML research) advisor told me to always take math courses that are intended for math students.

ironically, the discrete math course for the undergraduate math program at my university was made less difficult to ease non-math and non-CS students who took it, so my department (CS) made their own version of the course to un-ease it for CS students. And during the first lecture, the instructor said this, and I quote without any embellishment whatsoever.

This is not a programming class. This is a math class. And you better study for it like it's a math class. Study for it every day. If you don't study every day for this class, you are going to get kicked in the ass. And I have big shoes.

[brazen comet]

Thanks for bringing this up honestly. I wouldn't have known beforehand since i was under the assumption that i should take the engineers course.

[brazen comet]

I love that. Good to know. I'm hoping I get speak with my advisor on setting up my degree plan to better accommodate towards ML

Nonetheless, do you guys it's still think it's still worth considering a CS double major later on?

I also just realized ASU doesn't offer the Calculus w/ Analytic Geometry for ASU Online.

[peak halo]

if you want to work in ML, there's like an 80% chance that you'll need a masters degree anyway, so I would only do a double major if you think it would substantially increase your chances of getting into a CS masters program.

I recently started a masters in CS program at an east coast US university, and for the masters students with a non-CS undergraduate degree, there are a few undergraduate CS courses that they have to take before they can start the masters-level ones. I assume other universities operate similarly. It looks like your data science program has a "computer science track", and if you did that one, you would complete some of the "conversion requirements" .

[pine sleet]

I applied to ASU 👀

[brazen comet]

What's your intended major? I was able to gain admission as I had completed about 36 credits about 10 years ago lol

[pine sleet]

electrical engineering

Though i got into another college so whether I get into ASU is pretty much irrelevant

[brazen comet]

All things considered, ASU is fairly selective, but still a relatively easy school to get into

[pine sleet]

My academics are pretty decent, I'm fairly confident I can get in

[brazen comet]

Reading from everyone's responses here, the common consensus is to aim for top-tier universities (from a CS perspective), hence my decision on choosing ASU

[pine sleet]

Yeah

[delicate bane]

yes. i was getting that and convenience sampling mixed up. but yeah the anecdata says its true so it must be true, right? 😛

[delicate bane]

yes. it is called leveling courses, at least for our program

[delicate bane]

ASU is the online one right?

dont know too much about it but if youve done your research, then best of luck!

[brazen comet]

ASU Online is Arizona State's online degree program. I've heard good things, but at the same time it's the only option I have considering there are no local options haha

[delicate bane]

gotcha. hey still best of luck. i think the difficult part about an online program is being able to stay self-disciplined.

[jolly falcon]

I know three languages (and three big web frameworks), I feel more confident in one and im working to get better in the others, I have no previous job experience, all i can showcase is projects, but all requirements in job offers i find relative to the field (backend/fullstack dev) i want to apply for requires years job experience, how am i ever gonna get this job experience if all jobs i find requires a job experience?

like, where do i start

[spark cobalt]

Everyone goes through this. Your goal is to demonstrate things closely related to the job. For technical skills: a CS degree, open source contributions, projects, hackathons, etc. For behavioral skill: Experience working in restaurants or anywhere.

While you can't demonstrate everything in the job posting with one thing, you can at least break it down into parts.

[jolly falcon]

okay yeah we can rule out the degree

but thanks, ill bring up these stuff

[vapid jay]

find a coding bootcamp online, take the course, not because you need it, but because of the placement services they offer.

and you will learn a lot from it too just by working with others.

[vapid jay]

and find a very large open source project on github that has a very large visible community and get on whatever community they have like slack or whatever, then start asking to contribute and make sure your github has lots of commits and projects and stuff. even if its terrible its the idea that they look at activity more than ability

[spark cobalt]

I hope that idea isn't commonplace. I've seen many activities that are automated to have commit everyday.

[vapid jay]

it's not that its often commits that are automated, its that you're making obvious change log happen in git history that people can view.

people are smart enough to realize if someone is just randomly changing things or if they are actively doing work, i wouldn't want to work for someone that couldn't distinguish that

[jolly falcon]

dont know if im smart enough to contribute to these big star oss projects

[spark cobalt]

This boils down back to looking at ability over activity then lol

[vapid jay]

they take literally everyone, even if its just simple documentation

[jolly falcon]

i can make my own projects though, like a fully working distributed and scalable rtc chat applications

[vapid jay]

actually no, id rather have someone that works for me that knows how to work with others and be productive over time in a group than someone who is a jerk who is a brain surgeon, or someone who cant work with others because they are painful personality. the group + progress is what matters more.

[spark cobalt]

I fail to see how that relates to activity vs ability.

[spark cobalt]

You can ask for resume review (anonymized resume) if you'd like 🙂

[vapid jay]

ability alone means nothing when they are forced to work with others, try staying in a group when the personality is horrible, people quit and then timelines are moved back

its about analyzing if co-workers work together to make efficient use of their time.

[spark cobalt]

Yes, but that doesn't change that abilities are baseline.

That is, I wouldn't work with the nicest person in the world if they don't have a clue what they're doing.

[vapid jay]

i think that was a little bit of a given, no one wants to hire a grape fruit.

[jolly falcon]

also, do i really need to practice leetcode to get through the interview

[vapid jay]

then the best thing to do is get working on it 🙂 discord might not be best.

[jolly falcon]

and do a bunch of algorithms, i have never had to do stuff like that in my real life projects

[spark cobalt]

Considering a huge amount of companies use LC/DSA to do their technical interviews, then yes. Be also prepared to answer questions relating to skills advertised on resume, demos of your project, etc.

[vapid jay]

the better you know those things like linked lists and finite state machines the better you can code with given things like understanding why design patterns work

[spark cobalt]

Everything by definition is an algorithm.

[vapid jay]

you might get a simple insurance company job doing business rules type stuff, but if you want something really cool you have to know efficiency and performance and scalability of the app you build.

[jolly falcon]

okay yeah fair enough, but u get the point

[jolly falcon]

i see

[spark cobalt]

The point being, generally some practices are better than others. Some of these defining differences being DSA.

[vapid jay]

do you have a linkedin account that you've curated?

[jolly falcon]

i tried creating a linkedin account but it requires me to put a school and my school isn't an option and it refused to let me continue with the account setup

[spark cobalt]

I don't have a school on my LinkedIn

Just put some random school, and then delete it after your account creation.

Also, even if you don't have a CS degree, any bachelors is better than nothing.

[vapid jay]

The reason you want that linkedin account above all else is because that is where all the IT recruiters are that you can speak to about getting a job. No one that I've known for probably a decade gets normally hired on their own, they all go through recruiters these days unless it's some special case.

Basically you're screwing yourself out of even finding a job unless you're on it unfortunately.

[jolly falcon]

im still in high school, got a long time till i get a degree

[vapid jay]

The other thing you can do if you live anywhere near a big city is to drive to the meetups off meetup dot com.

[jolly falcon]

oh, ok thanks for the tip

[vapid jay]

I don't honestly know many people with a CS degree anymore compared to the thousands of developers out there.

social networking is your friend at a professional level. at the meetups they do work just get to know literally everyone, sometimes recruiters show up too

[jolly falcon]

meetups? a 80iq person in a room with 200iq people, they will never look my way twice

[vapid jay]

meetups arent brain trusts, they are people just like yourself and some that are employed because they enjoy the interest group they are a part of

[spark cobalt]

Do you mean company recruiter as well? Or 3rd party staffing agencies/solo recruiters?

[vapid jay]

and no one IT besides like half a dozen people in my life have I ever met that have above 120iq

[vapid jay]

I've seen all of the above actually at differing times.

[spark cobalt]

No one that I've known for probably a decade gets normally hired on their own, they all go through recruiters these days unless it's some special case.

There's a fundamental difference between a recruiter that works for a company, and a 3rd party recruiter/staffing agency that makes this sentence imply that most people get hired from a 3rd party recruiter/staffing agency which is a small minority I see.

[spark cobalt]

If you're the smartest in the room, you're in the wrong room.

Be a nice guy, keep listening and absorbing knowledge, and grow to be on their level.

[vapid jay]

I would say they do given the size of teksystems, modis, insight global, cybercoders, etc. you can have that conversation with them, it's stupid to pick apart stuff instead of help, try being constructive instead of just picking.

The best bet is ANY recruiter because they're going to know what more is really going on with the jobs out there.

[spark cobalt]

I'm not saying recruiters are bad. Mostly just your comment is (from anecdotal observation) very wrong and I didn't want it to come off the wrong way to OP.

[vapid jay]

np, linkedin is still the best bet @jolly falcon

[jolly falcon]

guys im trying to apply for my first job, i dont think they would expect me to be a fully professional lol

[jolly falcon]

yeah ill try, thanks for the tip

@vapid jaythanks ill try to setup a proper linkedin profile 👍

[vapid jay]

It's not that, it's the first thing they will ask you. Companies need to at least see something, including where your contact and resume is at, you really do want to house it there.

[spark cobalt]

Also, I would expect recruiters nowadays to be a way to hurt a candidate rather than help in some scenarios. While it may open some doors to some roles, it ultimately requires employers to pay a premium which right now, with the amount of juniors job seeking in this market, this isn't something that helps your case.

[spark cobalt]

You will also need a resume.

This is a pretty standard template in the industry:
https://www.overleaf.com/latex/templates/jakes-resume/syzfjbzwjncs

[vapid jay]

I have yet to meet any medium sized business that doesn't do that because yes they do pay a bit more up front, but only until conversion. Shutting doors because "you might think it might be this way" is ultimately a bad idea, keep your doors open no matter what it is.

[spark cobalt]

That being, companies don't need recruiters for junior roles. A posting with "new grad" gets hundreds of applicants in the span of a couple of days.

[vapid jay]

That I would love to hear a recruiter retort on that, it's really not a very well founded statement.

[spark cobalt]

Why do you believe so?

[vapid jay]

They rely on them to 'vet candidates'

[jolly falcon]

thanks man!

[vapid jay]

That will be at least the first thing I would hear them say all the time.

[spark cobalt]

Are you in the US by chance? Maybe we're just talking about a different culture...

[vapid jay]

I'm in the USA, and I'm sitting on linkedin, one of my good friends is the lead recruiter for devops for the entire south east region of the usa at teksystems, and they are one of the largest. I hear stuff like this all the time verbally and not just making random things up. lol

[spark cobalt]

It's rather common to have OAs (many automized and given to every applicant) and automated resume parsing/scoring for that.

[vapid jay]

That didn't negate what I said, resume isn't the only way they vet them, they insist on seeing their face on a screen call, and talking to them, there is a lot going on there that isnt engineering. including background and reference checks

Look you don't have to take my word for any of this, call them up and find out. They will be happy to speak to it all.

[spark cobalt]

I'm not denying the existence of staffing agencies/recruiters, I'm mostly saying I haven't seen them being responsible for the majority of hiring as you stated.

[vapid jay]

You really should call them up and argue with them about numbers 😛

How big is the job recruiting industry?
The market size, measured by revenue, of the Employment & Recruiting Agencies industry is $32.0 billion dollrs in 2023. (Jan 10, 2023)

[spark cobalt]

Well, I think this really depends on some things about OP.

@jolly falcon Do you plan to get a CS degree?

[spark cobalt]

I hope you do realize the flaw of this... This is all comparative, not standalone.

[vapid jay]

Which is the largest IT staffing company in the world?
The top 5 companies include Randstad, Adecco, Manpower Group, Allegis Group and Recruit.Dec 8, 2022

What percentage of large companies use recruitment software?
According to the survey reports of JobScan, Over 98.8% of Fortune 500 companies use ATS, while 66% of large companies and 35% of small organisations rely on them. (Feb 9, 2023)

[spark cobalt]

Recruiters invest into candidates they believe will have high chance of success in a role, as that will be lucrative to them and be foundation for future connections to employers.

With that being said, why should a recruiter invest time into someone without a degree when there's hundreds of thousands out there with one, that spent 4 years of dedicated time to higher education, etc.?

[vapid jay]

well damn... who uses recruitment software the most in those companies, they call them internal recruiters.

[spark cobalt]

ATS is done in-house, not in recruiters. You're essentially saying almost 100% of Fortune 500 does filtering of candidates in-house.

[vapid jay]

Is recruitment a big industry?
The Global HR & Recruitment Services industry is becoming increasingly popular, as it is the 2nd largest industry by market size and the 20th largest in the world. (Nov 2, 2022)

[vapid jay]

Your original gripe was that no one uses recruiters, now you're backing into the corner of well at least they don't use external recruiters, see the slippery slope here?

[spark cobalt]

I've made this distinction from the very start and you chose to ignore it.

No one that I've known for probably a decade gets normally hired on their own, they all go through recruiters these days unless it's some special case.

A recruiter in-house is simply a part of the hiring process for that specific company, they're not aiding you with being hired in general as you suggest here.

[vapid jay]

Do you have any IT job openings right now?

Yes! With over 6,000 clients, TEKsystems always has IT positions available. Search our IT jobs page to view some of our opportunities or contact a recruiter in your location to learn about all of our opportunities.

so... ya given that there are dozens of recruiting companies and each has thousands of jobs out there... I would say that I would not turn that down simply because it's not what you originally said.

[spark cobalt]

This is all standalone numbers with nothing to compare to.

[vapid jay]

who cares? who the hell says they wont go do that because self pity?

[spark cobalt]

That is not a lot.

[vapid jay]

lol its easier than you'd think

[spark cobalt]

Are you trolling?

[vapid jay]

nope, just confused that someone is randomly shooting down recruiting for no real reason

[spark cobalt]

Non-competes be like

[vapid jay]

anyone that says "no dont do that it wont work", are the people that have their own low self esteem. the rest of us try instead.

what non competes? that is no longer legal, checked the news in the last week? lol

President Biden signed an executive order calling for a ban on non-competition agreements in employment contracts and the FTC proposed a new rule to enact this change. Does this void existing non-competes? (Updated January 9, 2023)

jackson law LLP

[spark cobalt]

I've tried, talked to dozens of recruiters.

Like I've said before, this is a matter of recruiters investing into humans to get money out of unified interest. This is all strictly business, there's no "pity" in this. Why should a recruiter invest into a candidate that didn't spend 4 years in higher education in CS?

[vapid jay]

ive gotten a job from recruiters repeatedly easily, most times i got an offer letter inside 3 days.

[spark cobalt]

And what's your background?

What's plausible for you isn't plausible for everyone. If you have a solid track record in your career, higher education, etc., it is a no brainer for a recruiter to invest time into you. But what if you don't?

That brings more context. 25 YOE is super investable.

[jolly falcon]

ok i created my linkedin page

[spark cobalt]

👏

It'll doxx me if I click on that lmao. LinkedIn gives you suggestions, follow them.

[jolly falcon]

i did, i had to skip most of them lol

[vapid jay]

all you have to do is go google the top 15 recruiting companies by name and then go search out "senior recruiter" in the name of whatever you can find - get at least 5 recruiters from each company you can think of and then also from every recruiting company you can find too. then message them all each once they add you (they will) after that then message them with a few lines of who you are, you're actively looking, and then also your resume (they will immediately ask you for an updated resume.) make sure you have public links to your github and whatever else you can think of and a professional sounding email and picture

then work on fixing up your linkedin later, they know what you're trying to do, they are there to help you.

[spark cobalt]

[jolly falcon]

senior recruiter? im not even a junior lol, but thanks ill try anyway

should i ask for a job or tips to get a job?

[vapid jay]

its not a title for you, its them, you really need to get over this rediculously modest speech, it will destroy you on an interview, stop talking yourself down, talk yourself up. no one wants to hear the lowly speak

senior recruiters are ones that have proven themselves that they havent just started working there, thus they have connections you want to use. the ones that just start out don't know how to do their job very well, thus not helping you as much

stop overthinking everything and just try as hard as you can.

recruiting is like sales (basically very similar jobs.) and that means you dont want a car salesman that just started on the lot a few weeks ago

A friend of mine who just graduated from a fly by night IT school was an intern where I work now, they let him go and within like two weeks he had a new job making three times as much because he listened to me and i gave him the same advice.

[jolly falcon]

yah okay, i'll build some projects and post them on github first, then write the resume and then start reaching out to these recruiters

[vapid jay]

look its not that this is the almighty path, its that you're psychologically "doing something" to help you deal with the situation instead of stressing the hell out about it sitting doing nothing.

and the build up of your profile, yourself, your github, joining a IT community like either meetup or an open source - will give you people around you that share the same ways of doing things and that will help a ton for your self esteem and building your confidence.

and you're working on YOU. when you get on a call with a recruiter, tell them your honest feelings about things and they can help you with that. they walk people through the interview process and help curate things on their resume, etc.

[jolly falcon]

so i should seek guidance and suggestions from these recruiters, not necessarily a job offer?

[vapid jay]

when you leave them a message as i said above on linkedin, give them your email, phone number, name, a short description of your supposed title like what kind of animal you are in IT, etc. along with the resume

Let them figure all out what they need from you, but yes ask them a bunch of questions, they will answer them. they arent jerk offs lol

[near ocean]

You cant advertise here, you've been told before

[proud yacht]

This is career, I thought I can do that here.

[near ocean]

!rule 9

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[proud yacht]

Ohh

[proud yacht]

Then can I find a team member?

[vapid jay]

@jolly falcon keep what i said all above, like copy paste it and integrate it into a set of notes, you'll find that most of the time they all do the same things and even speak with the same lines of reasoning, meaning you can learn and navigate it to get good at actually the getting the job part.

[near ocean]

If you have a project that's open source that youre willing to share then you can try in #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval

[jolly falcon]

Thanks, will do that, really appreciate the help

[vapid jay]

@jolly falcon call up about a dozen recruiters over the course of a few hours, they are always on phones and talk to people at length. the more questions you ask of them and then compare the differences or similarities to what they tell you, the better off you'll be, they wont lie

[jolly falcon]

What kind of questions should I be looking for to ask? Could you give a few examples?

[vapid jay]

@jolly falcon and if you do happen to get a job through a recruiter, you should do one thing, help three people with the information you found just to help them out. and tell them the same. 😉

[jolly falcon]

haha of course

[spark cobalt]

I think an explanation on recruiters is needed:

Third party recruiters/staffing agencies help companies get people for specific roles, and the economics behind them is that they get money if you get hired and stay for generally 3-6 month range. (The money being paid is generally a percentage of your yearly salary, maybe like 10-15%). With that being said, they make money from you being hired, and you are aiming to get hired. Which ends up in a unified interest which gets you hired, and the recruiter paid.

What recruiters will also aim for are long lasting partners, this way when you're looking for another role, you guys can continue using your unified goal.

But this comes with some serious side notes:

• A recruiter will want to invest time into people that be lucrative to them. Having 25 YOE like NikkiP allows them to get easy interviews through recruiters since they have a long history of success. For you, this means that you want to find ways to make yourself as hirable as possible.
• Like mentioned before, with the current economic climate, recruiting is a little iffy, especially for the junior market. Since you are more expensive than your other peers (because of this commission), you end up need to find a way to justify that premium, which for you, without a degree etc., will be very difficult.

Some general recruiter tips though:

• Avoid recruiters that are not from your country.
• You don't specifically have to target big name staffing agencies (in fact, they might have higher standards in terms of candidates they'd invest to. I wouldn't be surprised if a degree or prior experience is necessary, which you don't have).
• Call local recruiters. Google staffing agencies near you, call them, prepare an elevator pitch to introduce yourself, your goals, etc. As NikkiP said, they want to land you a role you want. Make it clear what your goals are, etc.
• Aim to build long lasting relationships. If they're a good person but they don't have a role for you, once you gain some experience, still keep their contact handy.

[vapid jay]

nothing like going from having zero experience to going to google and begging for a job lol

[vapid jay]

they will know what to do when you tell them what you're looking for. all you have to do is say "i need a job", and tell them to help you through the rest. they deal with humans all day every day about needing a job.

I give @spark cobalt some crap but hes right some of the time lol

[jolly falcon]

thank man, also is it not good to not show desperation?

[vapid jay]

they know you need a job, if you play the hard to get game, no one will call you back because you're the one that needs a job, not them

[spark cobalt]

Everyone wants a job. It's not about desperation, but about giving a recruiter a reason to invest into you. Being a good person is a good start.

[vapid jay]

@jolly falcon you just have to really go through this process and let go of all this weird thing about like walking on egg shells, we're humans too remember?

[jolly falcon]

yeah fair enough

[vapid jay]

fortune favors the bold

[hoary summit]

I have a phone screen for a data science role in 12 hours after passing their prelim exam. Imposter Syndrome is strong right now and would appreciate any advice on how to proceed.

[vapid jay]

imposter syndrome isnt a real thing stop making up a reason to torpedo yourself. shut off your emotions and just do what you need to. follow through.

I have no idea when nervousness became a mental illness lol I don't think that's in the DSM

Grow the confidence you need in yourself as a human.

[near ocean]

What on earth is this boomer tier advice

[buoyant seal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5Jk6ONgqQA @vapid jay 😁

[delicate bane]

rmah is that you? jk

[fleet elm]

omago

[buoyant seal]

!rule 9 is enforced here, delete your msg please 🙂
UPD: thanks

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[sleek egret]

yar

[coral vine]

Beat your chest rapidly and say you got this in the bag.

Also, drink Gatorade for hydration.

[sleek egret]

why not water?

[coral vine]

It’s like Nike. Why not any shoe

Gatorade makes you feel like an athlete therefore you perform like one 🤣

“Basking in reflected glory” is what the book calls it

[quasi axle]

Coming from someone who’s never done a coding interview don’t go into it thinking something is on the line. Go into your interview expecting to have a casual discussion and maybe learn/explore a bit. Be curious, not scared.

[tepid geode]

i am making my own clothing brand, is this good, just getting started out

[torn pendant]

is it akatsuki ?

It looks really nice.

[vapid jay]

guys any advice on how to choose my field in cs in university because i already code and i find myself liking everything honestly i am in my last year in high school

[white relic]

You have to choose a field within CS? What are the options?

[torn pendant]

Great bro, but iam just a begginer.😁

[vapid jay]

anything literally because i already studied stuff like web dev and problem solving in hs

[white relic]

as a freshman cs student you will probably be taking all the same classes as every other freshman cs student

you don't need to pick a subfield unless it's for a program requirement of some kind

Look for interesting internships/co-op programs and try as many different things as you can. The generalist phase of your education isn't over yet.

[vapid jay]

i understand thanks bro

[delicate bane]

dont think this is really relevant to this channel. maybe try #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval

[cedar phoenix]

good day people

[sleek egret]

when you wrote "I don't believe in taking notes", do you mean that you don't think that taking notes helps in learning/retaining of information? or do you just mean that you don't do it?

[earnest hollow]

Hey guys I have a question

Can I do python dev as a job if I only know the python language?

[sleek egret]

you can, but you probably won't get the best jobs if your skillset is that limited

[white relic]

I always took notes throughout high school and college. I never studied them; for me the action of sitting in lecture and taking notes was sufficient, 99% of the time.
In my post-school life, I take notes on stuff much less often, and I have worse retention of knowledge. I have to look stuff up more often.
YMMV. If writing an algorithm once is sufficient for you to understand and retain it, good.

[delicate bane]

hi, do you have a careers-related question?

[true harness]

I often feel the same way. just know this: you passed the exam, so you are qualified for the phone screen

I would ignore nikkip's advice. feeling nervous is normal. imposter syndrome is very common

[sleek egret]

also, there's essentially no downside. worst case scenario, they say "no". which means you lost nothing.

[true harness]

the slightly coping way to think about failing an interview is that they were probably a bad fit anyway

[sleek egret]

I don't see how that helps

[true harness]

it doesn't, that's why it's a cope

[sleek egret]

what I mean is... it may help you feel better, but it doesn't help you improve your interviewing skills

[true harness]

yeah. it's more for just getting over the wallowing in pity stage into the constructive stage

[smoky quest]

If you are in high school or college age, a CS degree will be the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[smoky quest]

My advice is to do more of them until you stop caring.
In addition, don't attach your ego to it. It's not like an exam at school where they test you have acquired the skills of the lesson you went through. Instead, it is an assessment of how much of a good fit you are for the role they are looking for. And sometimes, not unlike relationships, you can have two great people that just aren't meant for each others. Or one person has had a shitty day and were not able to meet you

And yeah, it's absolutely normal to feel nervous, especially if you only have done a few. But it will get better as you go through them

[celest sail]

https://youtu.be/ubOhA56G_tk

Show off your projects in the interview if the team lead is chill and dont do an fullstack Oa that took the team lead 12h to complete with insider knowledge

[delicate bane]

first time ive seen NPC as an insult . also idk if a parody video is the best thing to post here in this channel

[coral vine]

A 2nd company contacted me today for an interview! I’m excited and still recovering from the 1st interview rejection.

[spark cobalt]

It was funny

[spark cobalt]

Grats! As long as you improve with each interview regardless of acceptance or rejection, you're on the right path 🙂

[coral vine]

I have to do a one-way video interview o.o apparently I click their link and record a video of me answering questions maybe?

[vital wyvern]

That's how two of my initial interviews were done.

It's awkward but nice to have time to read the prompt and collect your thoughts.

[spark cobalt]

Oh interesting never heard of these before

[coral vine]

I haven’t got the chance to revise my resume yet but I think it’s the open source contribution to pandas that’s getting me contacted back from companies.

[spark cobalt]

Nice

[coral vine]

It says I need to know all this tech.

Knowledge of software development on the Microsoft technology stack
Knowledge of Git and Open-Source technologies
Skilled in Net Framework 5
Skilled in Net 6.0 (previously .Net Core) for multi-platforms and virtualization/containers
Skilled in C#, Python, PowerShell,
Skilled in SQL Server, SSMS
Skilled in Azure
Skilled in UiPath Robotics Process Automation

I didn’t pass the previous interview because it was for iOS developer position. I didn’t know the language specifics. I feel I’ll struggle with the same thing for this one. I’m only familiar with python, git, sql.

[true harness]

you don't really need to know all of them. you only need to know more than the other applicants. and even then, you might beat them in terms of likeability

[coral vine]

Hmm…there seemed to be a lot of technical depth in the last one. They asked about how do I go about debugging memory management issues, how do threads work, step by step explain how to parse json, design patterns for mvp, mvc, mvvm, mutable/immutable, and language specifics.

Everything I studied wasn’t even in the interview and I studied iOS.

[spark cobalt]

The job I have now I passed like 1/7 of the requirements, and that 1 is like "being passionate" or something

[coral vine]

I should pass this because my vision got more blurry after working on that open source xD

Ok so I guess my strategy this time will be to just show my passion by being honest lol

[coral vine]

Do you mind sharing what questions they asked you during these one-way calls? 😮

I’m so new and pretty introverted. The interviewer asked me to talk about a specific project I worked on that was on my resume. I didn’t know how to do that in such a short amount of time, so I don’t sound like a run-on.

However I can do that perfectly fine when not timed. Interviewing, a skill on its own Dx

[vital wyvern]

Most of them were regarding specific qualifications from the job listing or behavioral interview questions.

[coral vine]

Thank you. Ok me against 110 applied applicants, according to Indeed.

[buoyant seal]

thanks gods i did not choose to learn C# for backend work i think i am right in thinking, that if u would have learned it, i would have been too often sought to work in Windows environment.

may be it is good for some people, but i certainly would like to be never ever dealing with Windows 😅

better to bear the pains and learning Java!

[coral vine]

I have a Mac and don’t know how to use windows :/

If I can just get this job, I’d gladly become windows biggest fan

[buoyant seal]

you will probably need Windows (And Visual Studio) for this work :/ . Net Framework i think can be run only on Windows https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.NET_Framework
. Net Core, is friendly enough to be launched at Windows, Linux and MacOS
Questionable also SQL Server stuff and other mentioned tech from this list, some of it can be Windows specific too

https://hub.docker.com/_/microsoft-dotnet-framework?tab=description
Although may be from some version . Net Framework supports not Windows env 🤔 or may be not.
https://www.minitool.com/news/net-5-download.html
Yeah looks like it supports Linux and MacOs i think

[coral vine]

Good to know. Thank you. I do remember buying a parallels subscription a long time ago in order to do assembly language on windows through virtualization without going through setup. This was for school.

[buoyant seal]

https://www.minitool.com/news/net-5-download.html
According to this page, .Net 5 is successor to Framework 4, and binaries for Linux and MacOS are available. So may be Windows is not super necessary better to consult . Net community though. Probably easy to find some community here https://github.com/mhxion/awesome-discord-communities#c

[coral vine]

Thank you. I’m going to study all these technologies and if I get the job, I’m going to buy a windows computer and do my work natively 😄

With the pain I’ll endure from working within windows environment, I’ll make up for by finally being able to play all the games I’ve been deprived of. It would be great!

[buoyant seal]

technically you are supposed to be able working with it without Windows 🙂 Hopefully.
All the rest of your colleagues can be having Windows though.

you know.. best answer would be using Windows... or Linux, i would say will depend on what they use as Deployment target (and may be slightly can be affected by what other devs use)

if they deploy to Linux, best Linux (especially if they have at least some devs at Linux)
if they deploy to Windows... and all other devs work in Windows... may be makes sense to use Windows too.

Somehow can't fit into this list MacOs as being good for anything except developing for MacOs and IOS no offence to apple cultists.

[coral vine]

Especially with their new apple chip. For every task I need to do, there are now so many extra technical complications due to this. If I could do programming again, I would have stuck with windows from the beginning.

Even if the software works for mac, the optimization often times isn’t very good, very noticeable, and low support.

But I guess that’s how it is for everything. If you learn something that is more technically challenging, you have more freedom in the long run! Also I’ve learned that you can’t really avoid this. You just limit your options or delay the inevitable :/

I favored having something that simply works intuitively.

[buoyant seal]

Especially for their new chips. Fighting problems of arm64 CPU Architecture incompatibility with the rest of the world software living in amd64 is certainly additional pain in the ass 😁

[buoyant seal]

But I guess that’s how it is for everything. If you learn something that is more technically challenging, you have more freedom in the long run! Also I’ve learned that you can’t really avoid this. You just limit your options or delay the inevitable :/
this is just the pain of using closed proprietary system :/ which has its popularity only from brainwashing population into thinking it is quality.

Better using widely adopted Windows (i hate windows), or Linux for the win (quite often best in web development at least). In both cases everything is well supported (for slightly different usage cases though).

Plus Windows with WSL2 made quite close bridge to Linux anyway

[coral vine]

It also seems like it’s a business strategy because I’ve lost support for 90% of my steam games that once worked for mac. Even if they do work, the games crash often or lag a lot even on a powerful mac. Even games that are listed as mac-compatible might not work now due to the new apple chip. I notice that apple has always moved towards more and more encapsulation away from everyone else o.o

[buoyant seal]

wow. you developed your own games, deployed to Steam? admirable.

[coral vine]

No, games I’ve bought

[buoyant seal]

aww

[delicate bane]

dotnet only works on visual studio not visual studio code right? i hate that these are named so poorly lol

i also will try to avoid dotnet so as to not get married to windows ecosystem if possible

[buoyant seal]

. Net Core starts to work for Linux, everything else Windows/Visual Studio stuff as far as i know

from certain . Net Framework version (which is Windows stuff), they introduced having it working for Docker containers... but they run only in Windows kernel in Windows Servers certain versions 😆

[delicate bane]

my coworker has. he did it with unreal engine.

[coral vine]

Being able to use something without having to think is amazing quality though

[buoyant seal]

yeah, for this exactly reason i chose to learn Java as my third language. Java is crossplatform by design 🙂 And my minecraft works at Linux with its Windows version without any changes 🙂

Java is kind of unique in its quality being Static Typed Compilable language maximum safe from developer mistakes, yet being running in its Java Machine making it cross platform like it is some interpreting language

great candidate to know, for the average choice to use in development, with being certain a lot of devs available for this language. Good for something financial developed
Working for Backend, Android and Desktop developments!

[smoky quest]

and with awesome performances thanks to its JIT

[quasi axle]

You sure you’re allowed to distribute that? Pretty sure those symbols are copyrighted lol

[quasi axle]

not the akatsuki clouds, the village symbols

also wikipedia's words aren't legally binding, Shueisha's are

[tepid geode]

the village symbols are

[tepid geode]

cloths online use it

[quasi axle]

again, fallacy of "others do it so it's ok" how do you know these people didn't obtain licenses?

Do whatever you want lol, just don't be shocked if lawyers come knocking on your door

[tepid geode]

ok ?

[ivory gazelle]

I'm looking to get an entry level data analyst position or possibly a machine learning internship. Does anyone have any portfolio project recommendations? I was a business major so I don't have any from school but have been doing Kaggle contests and some other data/ML things for the last 6 months or so. I feel like I may be looking to do too much with a project compared to what I've read and what a couple friends in the industry say but am looking for more opinions!

[vital wyvern]

You can use your Kaggle analysis for your portfolio in either GitHub or Kaggle. Pretty reasonable for an analyst. Keep in mind ML is more down the Data Science path, so you're kinda' looking at two different specialties in the same career blob.

[ivory gazelle]

Yea I would prefer the data science path but I feel as if my qualifications aren't up to what 99% of the jobs are looking for (i.e. experience, CS/Math/related major, etc). Also, I don't really do much EDA for my Kaggle stuff since I use others' posts for that lol. I just do the modeling. I have started to score well (top 10% consistently on the playground competitions) which gives me a bit of motivation. Lots of things I've read online seem to be focused on very simple classification models or data visualization. Would you recommend something like this? I was expecting something much more complex like a poker bot to play online (using machine vision/models of course)

[vital wyvern]

If you're trying to go down the Data Analysis road, focus on visualization and basic statistical insights. I cannot possibly give insight on the DS path, but there are some individuals in here that are more up to speed on advanced modeling.

[ivory gazelle]

Is Excel or matplotlib (or similar) good enough for the visualization or should I use Tableau? Seems like most jobs want Tableau or PowerBI experience but personally Excel is superior in terms of the interactive aspect.

[vital wyvern]

Tableau/PowerBI, you're probably not going to get around needing to at least peripherally be aware of those. But FWIW, I did not have access to Tableau/PowerBI for the last 8 years (classified/controlled information) so I completely relate to what you're saying about Excel. It's just one of those things you should have in your toolbelt. At least one, preferably both.

[ivory gazelle]

Gotcha. I did start to work on a project in Tableau but realized it needed to be too interactive for Tableau's purpose lol. https://medium.com/pipeline-a-data-engineering-resource/3-data-science-projects-that-got-me-12-interviews-and-1-that-got-me-in-trouble-f376682b4e21 Would these be the type of projects you would recommend to do? (not the specific application but the visualization)

[vital wyvern]

I probably wouldn't put tragedy porn on my resume. But I think getting a well put together dashboard and a reasonable in depth analysis in your portfolio is a pretty good starting point.

[ivory gazelle]

Well obviously not the topics like I said but just the visualization part in general lol

[vital wyvern]

Yeah, more or less. Consider browsing
https://www.reddit.com/r/DataArt/
for some inspiration. There's some excellent content there that has really helped me kinda' aspire to do more than just basic plotting/graphing.

[ivory gazelle]

Reminds me a bit of DataisBeautiful

love that subreddit

Appreciate all your input 😄

[vital wyvern]

[ivory gazelle]

Oh also, would you recommend I tailor my visualizations to the industry I'd like to work in or does it not really matter?

[coral vine]

Omg I just did some baby analytics about my job applications and I’ve got to share about it!

I applied to 23 SWE jobs on feb 21 - 12 days ago

I got 2 interview requests from it

Both jobs were posted 30+ days ago

1 is 115 people applied
2 is 80 people applied

I did it with the indeed easy apply button o.o

I’m just surprised that it was actually not too long ago. It felt super long in my head though.

I find it interesting because:

• old listings do get looked at
• easy apply button does work. Just upload resume and that’s it
• they can get back pretty quickly (2 weeks)

[vital wyvern]

Mmm, yeah, but don’t go too nuts. If you can provide a good analysis for the industry, do so, but don’t make yourself look silly by not understanding the material and coming to an incorrect conclusion based exclusively on the data. If that makes sense.

[ivory gazelle]

Yea of course 😄

[onyx elbow]

if i learned python would it be useful for AI and WEB3

[ivory gazelle]

AI yes web3 no

[onyx elbow]

is there a language that can relate to both and come close to the versatility python provides?

[ivory gazelle]

What do you want to do in web3?

[onyx elbow]

tbh not sure i took interest in it m just trying to include it in my skill set

[ivory gazelle]

Well it really depends

Because you could focus on the smart contract side of things or stuff like web applications

[onyx elbow]

would you recommend giving up on WEB3 and specializing in AI alone?

[ivory gazelle]

I mean that really depends on what your goal is

I would like to work in data science so I'm focusing on python for that reason

[sleek egret]

yar

if you want to work in data science, you should focus on math and statistics

[wide drum]

Hello, I am new to discord and this server in general, I am a teen who wants to learn to code. I have some knowledge and coding experience with python but I want to learn more...

[versed mulch]

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[wide drum]

@versed mulch Thanks man

[long monolith]

Well I'm struggling with something and hope this community will help me pick a wise path.
I'm currently a sophomore student 2nd year(India)
I am interested in ML and stuff but I thought learning Android development along with ML won't be a bad idea so in my holidays i planned to study Android development and then move on to ML and stuff , now can I be ready for ML so that I can have a good grasp at it ,or i should concentrate at Android alone and leave ML ,or can I focus on both

I'm so confused for days now

As a tier 3 student (didn't study in COVID and hence bad college well that doesn't matter as I work hard , in an average i study like 10 hours a day in holidays) my college doesn't have a proper guidance or a good environment

And because of that i don't have anyone to give me a proper guidance sadly

This question might be immature but please bare with it and be kind to explain me
Thanks a lot

[delicate bane]

why dont you learn a little bit of both then decide which one you will pick later? you are just a sophomore so you have time

[long monolith]

do i hmm, in android development i already feel bored and more hyped about Machine learning

btw if i start learning ML/DS right now (currently i completed 3rd sem so i have like 2 and half years left) will i be able to get a good grasp at it?

[sleek egret]

understand that to do serious "ML/DS" work (i.e. not grunt work involving just cleaning data or managing training data sets), you need a considerable amount of math: statistics, linear algebra, stochastic calc, tensors, etc

[long monolith]

maths it not a problem 🙂

[sleek egret]

good

[buoyant seal]

hubt — 09/22/2022
i warn everyone that wants to be in AI/ML: you spend a huge amount of time on data validation, cleanup, and analysis. and generally a lot less time than you'd think on the actual AI/ML part. unless your company has very mature data management and data pipelines(very few companies do), expect to spend a lot more time on data engineering than AI/ML
#career-advice message

[long monolith]

wew

[sleek egret]

which is why the better you are at the math bits, the less of the data janitorial work you will be doing

[long monolith]

i see

[buoyant seal]

Android path is close enough to regular Software Developer path, and i can recommend resources regarding that
#web-development message
This is theory to learn for core Software Engineering stuff

For more practical side: Java / Kotlin and learning android specific stuff
https://roadmap.sh/android this roadmap exists to find out what is android specific

[long monolith]

im already doing a android dev course and its almost completed , in my holidays i planned that i would do android dev for 10 days and ML for 10 days , but now im confused , android dev already feel a bit boring as ML got me hyped up alot.. sigh

and i did not start with ML yet

[delicate bane]

https://www.mihaileric.com/posts/we-need-data-engineers-not-data-scientists/

[buoyant seal]

:/ i would be more excited regarding Android Development. It is creative code architecture work after all. (than being data janitor)

[delicate bane]

amirite?

[long monolith]

well im at a learning stage after all so its better to explore ig :}

[delicate bane]

if you are interested in DE or any data role in general tbh, here is my nth time plugging this book:

[long monolith]

thanks a ton ill be looking on to it

[cold warren]

Hi, I have a job interview soon and wanted to prepare with a mock interview. Is someone here trying to improve their skills as an interviewer?

Feel free to ping or DM me

[buoyant seal]

check DM.

[near ocean]

It doesnt, it asks you if you want to make a post about it if you change jobs for example

[true harness]

would it be a good idea to try and connect with previous interns of a company i'm going to interview at 🤔. the company is so small it's hard to find information about it 😬 🥴

[vital wyvern]

Could it hurt?

[true harness]

probably not 😔. cool thing is she was a freshman when she interned, so maybe i've a chance 👀

[buoyant seal]

😁 a bit of jokes on topic.

[true harness]

what immediately jumps out is that they've listed git with github, gitlab, and bit bucket and told you to pick "any one". kinda weird

[spark cobalt]

Pretty normal thing to do.

[true harness]

also wait, they said "graphQL" is a database? would not listen to this graphic lol. "JSON" api? what does that even mean

[spark cobalt]

It does for me as well unfortunately

[near ocean]

no svn

[buoyant seal]

good spotting 🙂

[buoyant seal]

indeed, Git should be in the header. leaving providers as options

[vapid jay]

hi i start the dev do u have some exercice for me :))

[buoyant seal]

what is your educational background 🙂

[spark cobalt]

Challenge yourself with projects you wanna build

[buoyant seal]

#web-development message and read the books 🙂

[spark cobalt]

That's a different server lol

[buoyant seal]

fixed 🙂

[true harness]

seems slightly biased towards web dev

[buoyant seal]

where? they are all universal for any software engineer (if you will replace Python with other generic language of your choice)

[near ocean]

The entire section of frameworks?

[buoyant seal]

Where?! i used even text search. Can't find it

[near ocean]

Its the cheese slice

Oh, i was talking about the image above
psv confused me

[buoyant seal]

oh. now it makes sense

but oh well. that burger is named Backend one. So quite valid to be web dev oriented 🙂

[true harness]

but backend doesn't mean backend web dev

[graceful mason]

it's pretty common to use backend only in a web dev context, and this seems to be talking about a backend developer which is always going to be a web dev term

[summer roost]

it's pretty common to use backend only in a web dev context
[citation needed]

[true harness]

probably common amongst web devs

[gaunt wren]

can someone help me ?

im gonna take cs and want to know what courses i should take to become a software engineer

[true harness]

the required courses are pretty much all you need. take electives you're interested in

[deft herald]

To add to above answer, this is a conversation you should have with your advisor too

[pastel thunder]

where does it lag?
and where does it seems weird?
I have most knowledge in ML and least in web-dev
but my priority is: SDE > ML

[white relic]

I wouldn't say "Tier 1" unless that's like... some kind of formal category in your country

"top 5%" is fine because it puts the number in context, but "95th percentile" sounds better

[pastel thunder]

understood and any comments on experience, projects?

[white relic]

it looks quite respectable IMO, but not in my subfield. Someone with ML backgrounds could probably comment on the specifics

[pastel thunder]

actually i didnt do much work at megmeet and ILJIN, so i am more concerned to what to actually write

[white relic]

There are phrases like "using", "worked on", "actively involved in" which don't really add anything to the reader's understanding of what you did. I advise sticking to verbs like "tested", "designed", "developed" etc.

I forget what the acronym is, but you generally want to emphasize not just what you did but what impact it had - whether you increased sensitivity by 10% or improved test coverage by 15% or reduced the start time by 1.5 seconds or whatever

it can be hard to find those kinds of metrics but definitely think about it

[pastel thunder]

hmm hard, did think but dont know so far, should i superficially add them

[white relic]

I wouldn't make something up just for the sake of having it in there.

[pastel thunder]

me too, also because many of them are bigger brands cannot just straight up write anythimg

[white relic]

it's fine to just have a few words of description on some things. Not all experience is relevant/important enough to merit multiple bullet points

the point of a resume is 👏 demonstrated 👏 skills 👏 , if a thing doesn't demonstrate your skills don't waste more space than you have to

[pastel thunder]

also i dont get interviews, i mostly apply for those which are between faang and above average

could it be because i dont have diverse skills yet? i usually lack about 20% of requirements but that isnt too bad, right?

[white relic]

how long have you been applying? and how many applications?

[pastel thunder]

i do have an offer(above average)
i am applying to get a better one
i have applied to 10 (companies which are somewhere in between faang, above average OR startups) and only got 1 call from startup

[white relic]

that's pretty good tbh

[pastel thunder]

really? i thought getting atleast a call would be easy considering i do have 80ish % requirement and from known univ

[white relic]

sounds solid to me, but can depend on your local situation

10% conversion rate from applications to interviews is not bad

also with just 10 applications you can't really do statistics on that

[pastel thunder]

i see, and will well established company most likely ignore if i lack experience? even though other things are solid

[white relic]

well established companies are the best places to start at, IMO.

[pastel thunder]

actually they are the ones to ignore me the most

[white relic]

honestly I don't know what your idea of a "well established" company is

[pastel thunder]

if i have 1 year intern exp
upto how many mentioned required years should i apply?

[pastel thunder]

more employee, structured process

[white relic]

sure

I mean, you're applying for entry level positions, presumably

it's not like they don't hire people at all, and I don't see an obvious reason why they'd overlook you specifically