career-advice

[deft herald]

I once interviewed for a company that builds custom sets for big music artists (they made the huge cube for Deadmau5). That would have been my dream job

[sharp plover]

lol

[smoky quest]

body tracking requires software. So yes, there is a market for it

[smoky quest]

definitely up there in the list of cool jobs

[spark cobalt]

Lot of that in the VR/AR market. Though lots of layoffs are happening in that sector...

[sharp plover]

What is AR?

[spark cobalt]

Augmented Reality

[sharp plover]

Ah, ty

Im rly into vtuber so i would like to work with something like that, that's why i was saying about the blender and tracking. The AI im just curious about

Tysm for giving a north im gonna search a little more about jobs in my area/linkedin with these

[smoky quest]

I would be careful about jumping into some niche passion you have today. You may grow out of it in a few years, while your career will span 40 years

[sharp plover]

Ty for the advice

[smoky quest]

Explore the field.
Look at your classes and how they do apply to jobs.
Make random projects. Make robots, websites, movies with blender, fake trading bots, your own programming language, backend, frontend, games, etc.
You have plenty of time to specialize

[sharp plover]

Tbh, im kinda nervous cuz i already have one degree so im kinda will speedrun this computer one (ill skip almost all the math classes), and pretty soon ill need to get a internship (dunno if this word is what i mean). So basically im using my vacation to study about these questions that i asked

[smoky quest]

what do you mean by skipping the math classes?

[sharp plover]

I already have physics degree (but where i live theres no job for that) so I started a new degree. I already did like Calculus in physics so i dont need to do it again

[smoky quest]

oh I see.
Then yeah, since you got the math out of the way, you can focus on the more CS aspects. That's great!

[sharp plover]

That's why im kinda anxious cuz theres a lot that i can study and idk where to go and i need a job soon kek

[smoky quest]

are you graduating soon?

[sharp plover]

I guess i can do it in like 2-3 years
And the normal here its 5-8 years

[deft herald]

I bet you can knock it out in 2, what with all the pre-reqs out of the way

[deft herald]

5-8 years? huh...

[smoky quest]

aiming for a masters?

[sharp plover]

Idk how works for you, but here its 10 six-month time (semester, is this right?) So its 5 years in total, but as the coordinator said, ppl normaly got reproved in some eletives so the time increase a little

[deft herald]

Hmm, yeah here in the states a bachelor's is typically 8 semesters that are 4 months long

[sharp plover]

Im already doing a master, but not in this area. Tbh i just wanna a job to live well

[smoky quest]

masters do help with that 😉

[sharp plover]

I agree, but i would like to do it while i already have a job. I wanna have my own home and im getting too old

[smoky quest]

Doing both at the same time is extremely difficult

[deft herald]

Some jobs will pay for it though

[sharp plover]

Well, im already doing a master and graduation at the same time. Probably in the future ill be able to hang it

[smoky quest]

they might, but I also know of people to whom it has cost their marriage or had to drop out

[deft herald]

that's fair

[smoky quest]

if they want to max out their career, they could aim to finish their masters and them emigrate to the USA and one of the tech hubs

[sharp plover]

I would love emigrate to usa but i guess i would only do it if already got a job in there

[deft herald]

@sharp plover What country are you in?

[sharp plover]

Brazil

[smoky quest]

they would not let you emigrate without one anyway 😉
Or if you go to the USA for another degree

[sharp plover]

Yep

[deft herald]

Nice. We recently hired a Brazillian on my team

[sharp plover]

Nice

[deft herald]

I got him to bring me back a bottle of Cachaça from his last trip home

[sharp plover]

You know if is possible do idk the term in eng but its when you are doing graduation and you work in someplace but just to get experience not a real employee, in usa?

[deft herald]

Eh, that doesn't really happen anymore. All internships, at least in this industry, are paid

[sharp plover]

I was looking for the internship word, I did not wanted to mean that isnt paid

[smoky quest]

internships are common?

[sharp plover]

I mean, if is normal internship in another country, it would be all online

[smoky quest]

it's not really common.
For internships and early career, I would also recommend to go on-site too as to maximize the learning

[sharp plover]

What do you mean as go on-site?

[deft herald]

In the office

[sharp plover]

Ah, got it ty

[smoky quest]

yep.
Also in case, as it is a common misconception, people who are remote are compensated based on their location, not the location of their employer

[sharp plover]

It was a bottle with "51" on it?

[sharp plover]

I wasn't thinking about the compensation, but i guess it would be easier to get a contract to work there if started with a internship, but as u said thats not so normal to happen. I mean to emigrate

[smoky quest]

remote internships from other countries aren't the norm.
But it doesn't mean that interns can't come from other countries 😉

[deft herald]

No, looks like this

[sharp plover]

Idk this one, but the 51 (cinquenta e um) it's pretty famous here. That's why i supposed

Ty for all the advice and talking

[rain jungle]

Can anyone tell me how can i get internship in ml or ai any online platform ?

[spark cobalt]

• Be actively pursuing a CS degree of some sort (BS/MS/PhD), as internships are generally given to those in this situation.
• Build a portfolio showing exceptional knowledge within this field. Don't limit yourself to projects that are "built for resume"-type projects (as in, find something within the AI/ML niche that you seriously want to dive deep into and really get something out of it, don't just build a project for the purpose of the resume, I guarantee you every hiring manager has seen hundreds of housing price predictors)
• Being in grad school and having researched in MLT helps a lot especially for a field that is regarded to be heavily theoretical. Research papers, particularly those with a large number of citations are extremely helpful in making you stand out.
• Prepare for interviews, except short answer questions regarding DS/ML/AI (math, theory, algorithms, implementing related things), various forms of Leetcode questions, and questions regarding your past project and experiences with this field.
• In regards to LC: I recommend you go through Grokking and Elements of the Programming Interview. Do not just grind Leetcode aimlessly, adopt some sort of scaleable workflow that allows you to enhance your ability to solve a problem accurately, on top of practicing how to convey your ideas to others.

In terms of job hunting:

• Apply like crazy. Internships are extremely competitive.
• Network. Go to local dev meetups/related conferences/etc., keep being part of conversations whether that is contributing or listening. Learn how (and a big bonus, why) professionals convey ideas within this field concisely and the way they do. Make friends, they might not be able to give you a job now, but they'll definitely be people that can help you down the road (when you graduate, or etc.)
• Abuse your surrounding resources and just be open to advice. Whether that's sending resumes in various servers to get criticisms from the various managers that come by here, or other communities. Many people are happy to help.
• Be open to grow. You may fail in some areas, and that's fine. In interviews and other interactions with others, notate how you can improve on what you say, whether that's in clarity, conciseness, etc. For example, if someone asks you a question about a project that you gave a demo on, be sure to integrate that information into the next time you give a demo on that project as that's likely something someone in the future will ask as well.
• Keep with the trends of your local job market. Gather a bunch of job descriptions that are what you're aiming for and try to see how you can integrate what these companies are looking for into your current learning path and growth of portfolio.

[vapid jay]

what companies accept kernel development

[white relic]

"accept"?

[vapid jay]

mhm yes

[white relic]

What do you mean by that?

[vapid jay]

like where can you develop kernels, which companies have kernel development

[white relic]

Like, what companies hire people to do it

[vapid jay]

yes

other than the obvious ones of course...

[white relic]

I would probably just go on indeed or monster and search for kernel and see what pops up

I could name some industries but I'm sure it wouldn't be a very helpful list as I'm not dialed in to the kernel dev world

[spark cobalt]

Why not work backwards from the role titles that do what you're looking for at these companies and as trentj said just plug it into LinkedIn or something?

[plush quest]

.

[unique zephyr]

.

[peak halo]

@plush quest @unique zephyr this channel is for talking about career stuff, so make sure that all your messages are about that.

[fossil whale]

Guys, what are your opinions on studying abroad? I constantly see the option of going abroad even though placement is the main thing in my mind. I just want to look into it out of curiosity before more time passes. All opinions are welcome

[white relic]

Are you hoping to get a job in another country after you graduate?

[sleek egret]

yar

[near ocean]

If you can you should, is my opinion
You'll grow as a person, you'll be exposed to other cultures, you'll get to travel, be independent (or try to)

[sleek egret]

what if other cultures are wrong?

[west badger]

I want to get into a university but they say i need to have a gpa or 3 or 4 or whatever . I want to know what it means here in India like gpa of class 12th or gpa of 10th?

[white relic]

In the US, your GPA is usually averaged over all of high school. So 9th-12th grades (don't know what that corresponds to in India)

[west badger]

it must mean the same here in India then ig

[white relic]

But college admissions departments deal with international students all the time, so they probably have some internal process or guideline for dealing with different systems. You can call and ask (but I wouldn't expect much)

basically, if you get what are considered good grades in India, you're probably fine on that front. But it depends on the university

it's the same for domestic students tbh. A selective school may reject a student for having a 2.5 GPA but having a 3.5 doesn't guarantee anything either.

[thick trellis]

meow

[smoky otter]

woof

[near ocean]

americajin moment

[unique oriole]

any good place to prepare for job interview

[near ocean]

What kind of interview? Technical ones you probably want leetcode, otherwise grab a friend and have them ask you the boring HR questions

[sleek egret]

the best way to prep for a job interview is with other job interviews. the second best way is with mock job interviews (ask friends or family). the last best is to read about job interviews

[sour zinc]

Hello python community people happy to meet you all. I need to start learning python but can’t help my self where to start either with basics or with project examples. So please anyone help me with the roadmap for learning and getting myself in python. Thanks in advance 🙂

[wet finch]

watch youtube or get the courses on udemy

[near ocean]

!resources Youtube and video courses in general are bad
You should aim for a book with projects you can follow along with and code you can read
The popular recommendation is Automate the Boring stuff which does all of the above

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[sturdy zodiac]

h

[scarlet summit]

Yo, I'm looking to get into AI/ML any recommendations?

I've been struggling for a week to find good sources, preferably free cause ain't got no money

Tensor Flow related stuff

[forest jungle]

I can't find it at the moment, but I know facebook made a lot of their AI stuff public a while back.

[scarlet summit]

I found it, thanks

[smoky otter]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPYj3fFJGjk

[sleek egret]

it's very helpful to understand the math behind it all. So linear algebra and, if you have the chops, tensor calc. Some stochastic calc may also be helpful for certain applicataions.

[forest jungle]

I believe https://www.deeplearningbook.org/ goes over the math IIRC

[scarlet summit]

Oh, thank you for all the resources

And Question, does it matter if I learn Pytorch or Tensorflow or is learning either one going to be the same experience

[forest jungle]

I believe fast.ai is also published as a series of jupyter notebooks here https://github.com/fastai/fastbook

[forest jungle]

At the shallow level that I got into them the information was largely transferrable. It was just a case of "Okay wait how does PyTorch do X" or "What language does tensorflow use to Y". I want to emphasize, however, that I am not a tensorflow or pytorch wizard and am not employed in the field.

I mostly used Keras at the time I was doing ML stuff because I found it easiest to work with.

[scarlet summit]

Ok Noted, thanks for the info

[forest jungle]

Can I drop an anonymized resume here for feedback?

[peak halo]

yes

[smoky otter]

Lemme just feel inadequate here

[forest jungle]

If it's any consolation it hasn't been helping me get a job

[smoky otter]

Lol, I feel like jobs are scarce at the moment. I'm surprised to see you got your BSc in Math and Comp Sci at the same time. I spoke with my Uni about it and they're against it because the courses are too similar apparently.

[forest jungle]

At least in my Uni, the CS program only covered low level math. calc 2, linear algebra, and a discrete math class to sort of dash through a bunch of things the CS program needs.

So no abstract algebra, statistics, etc.

[smoky otter]

Mine has me taking discrete, linear algebra, Calc I, Pre-calc, and Applied Statistics for STEM

[leaden jasper]

What's your goal with this resume? What kind of jobs are you applying to? I would consider the details under the projects to be very light considering a Master's degree.

[sleek egret]

you have a few minor issues in your resume that you need to resolve: 1) you say "Linux (Solaris)", that should probably be "UNIX (Solaris)". 2) You Capitalize Every Word In Two Sentences. Stop doing that.

[forest jungle]

Noted. Will correct.

[sleek egret]

More importantly, you need to expand on what you accomplished at your jobs or in your projects.

[forest jungle]

Broadly I want to do AI stuff but trying to get into that at entry level isn't going to happen so I'm mainly going for backend python, frontend JS positions.

[sleek egret]

And given your recent graduation, you should probably list "relevant courses". Probably for at least another few years.

[sleek egret]

Ah, your resume, as it currently stands, does not support the desire to get into "AI stuff" much. You need to expand the neural network stuff and show that you know how to use Tensorflow and Keras.

In your relevant courses, be sure to include AI/ML relevant stuff like linear algebra, tensor calc, linear/nonlinear optimization, statistics/probabilities, stochastic calc, etc, etc

[leaden jasper]

Your projects section is light and doesn't leave the recruiter much to go on. I can expand in a bit when I'm back at my desktop

[sleek egret]

Generally speaking, you want to shape your resume to reflect your objectives.

[forest jungle]

To clarify: Right now I am not seeking AI specific jobs as I do not believe I am personally qualified for any of the AI jobs I have seen. I am seeking backend developer positions in a bid to get some employment and then I can spend some time actually drilling down on AI.

[sleek egret]

Finally, may I ask if you went to an "elite" university, a respected 2nd tier, a large state school, or what? And what sort of companies you're applying to for AI/ML jobs?

[white relic]

2-3 relevant courses is fine (unless you can work the skills in elsewhere) but some people tend to put their whole degree program on there. The courses you mention should actually be relevant to what you're applying for.

[sleek egret]

Oh. Well then, you want to highlight 1) the ability to go from vague/changing requests to working code and 2) the ability to finish projects and deliver them on time.

[forest jungle]

My uni was resoundingly "meh" in almost all respects, neither impressive nor unimpressive in any way whatsoever.

[sleek egret]

Indeed. I did not mean multiple paragraphs, lol. Just a few courses that matter. Though, IMO, it can be more than 2 or 3 🙂

[sleek egret]

Well, if you're not going for AI/ML, it won't matter nearly as much (re uni reputation).

[leaden jasper]

!cban 1041330068774989825 literally no. Don't scam on this server

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @smoky flicker permanently.

[sleek egret]

wow, that was a fast ban

[forest jungle]

This is part of why I am not going directly in- I know my uni doesn't give me leverage here so I need time to build up experience, knowledge, portfolio, etc.

[forest jungle]

Good point. Will see what I can do.

[sleek egret]

it's tough right now to find work out of school since so many places have shut down entry-level recruiting. however, if your resume illustrates some experience delivering on projects beyond class projects, you may be able to get in replacing existing junior developers as they leave.

[coarse spoke]

sorry to post in this channel but can anyone help me answer these in help channel i cant post it says an error occured

[forest jungle]

Regarding projects: Unfortunately with both work and personal projects, most of them fall into a category of "Oh crap we broke something knightshade we need you to figure out how to solve [problem] before the board meeting next tuesday". Nothing particularly impressive, just desperately digging through poorly documented systems and trying to piece together old, undocumented APIs. Makes it hard to list any of them on a resume because if I do it just sort of looks incoherent (and they don't make for good github material because they're all incredibly hyperspecific to whatever fire needed putting out)

[sleek egret]

oh, final thing, if you can provide a URL where the recruiter/employer can see some of your code, that's sometimes helpful.

[coarse spoke]

if u go to courses they let u work for them for some dumb payment but it will get u experience

[sleek egret]

That's fine. People like to know you can work under time pressure.

and that you can deal with docs with errors and such. this is the reality of the world and some young'uns freeze up or spin their wheels when they face incorrect docs. this is, needless to say, bad.

[spark cobalt]

Those types of firms should be avoided.

[spark cobalt]

Post in the off-topic channels.

[coarse spoke]

they use young kids ivty

[spark cobalt]

He's talking about training bonds/WITCH.

[coarse spoke]

ye u must get ur experience or get a job with idk how its called in english but connections

[sleek egret]

yeah, my bad, I thought the thread was about something else

[sleek egret]

it's called "connections" 🙂 or "networking". sometimes "nepotism"

[coarse spoke]

thanks

[sleek egret]

I call it "this is how the real world works"

[spark cobalt]

You do not need to deprive yourself to get connections. Going to local dev meetups or conferences and just being a decent human being socializing with others go a long way.

[coarse spoke]

here in my country its all about connections to get in a disco and all basic things

[smoky otter]

Welp. I'm boned.

[coarse spoke]

there arent things like that everywhere in the world im from balkan

[spark cobalt]

Fair enough

[coarse spoke]

also im new to coding i started with a course like 2 months and il start coding from home when my school tests are done

[forest jungle]

Unfortunately networking via conferences and such isn't an option for me atm due to distance issues.

[coarse spoke]

cuz im having problems with time functions i need to work on it

[coarse spoke]

for many people u can always find connections from a freinds freind but corruptions works with money if the friend isnt close enough

[sleek egret]

hiring people you trust is not "corruption", it's risk mitigation

[coarse spoke]

we are talking about getting jobs as a young developer\

[forest jungle]

Regardless, it's not something I can apply so at least for me the topic is moot.

[sleek egret]

people will often say "hire the most skilled or qualified". problem is, it's next to impossible to tell who is most skilled/qualified.

[forest jungle]

Easy- give them two "Very Hard" L33tcode questions

[sleek egret]

if you are somewhere out of the way, be clear when applying for jobs that you are willing, nay eager, to relocate

[forest jungle]

wouldn't that be something I do in the interview stage?

[spark cobalt]

It's very standard for job postings to include whether it's a remote position, or they require you to be in office.

[sleek egret]

um, when we have a slot open, we typically get 100 or so applications for a single job. we cull those aggressively and interview maybe 5.

that sort of ratio is not rare. pretty much every place I've been has seen at least dozens of applicants for every slot. and only a fraction get an interview.

you need to 1) stand out and 2) make sure there's no reason to toss you. because most companies will toss your resume for the most trivial of reasons

[forest jungle]

Right, Hiring guy needs some way to get through the stack of 200 and if there's any question it's easier to ditch it

[sleek egret]

the best way to stand out, btw, is to have a personal recommendation/referral.

[sleek egret]

exactly. so make it clear.

[forest jungle]

How do I do that on a resume

Not much point in me writing a cover letter because 1. No one reads them 2. I don't have anything worth saying

[sleek egret]

either 1) add a cover letter or 2) just stick a little note under your address (willing to relocate)

[white relic]

• willing to relocate

[buoyant seal]

Someone said WITCH? 🙂
https://youtu.be/YZPbW0wOLuU
What does WITCH 🧹 have to do with conversation though? 🤣

[sleek egret]

I would suggest a cover letter though that describes your eagerness to work for Y in X industry because of how awesome they are. and that you feel that you can quickly contribute meaningfully to their work.

[spark cobalt]

W- Wipro I- Infosys T- TCS C- Cognizant H- HCL A- Accenture India

Basically an acronym for firms to avoid.

[sleek egret]

where's the A?

[spark cobalt]

WITCHA

[forest jungle]

Is there any way to get around pretty much every entry level job already wanting 3-5 years experience?

[buoyant seal]

Internships during university 🙂
Rumors say sometimes master.s degree years counts in in addition

[spark cobalt]

By just applying and hoping for the best.

[forest jungle]

delightful.

[buoyant seal]

And lowering expectations to agree to anything

[spark cobalt]

Yep.

[forest jungle]

?

[spark cobalt]

You can make yourself to be a more compelling hire by being willing to work for a lower wage, being able to relocate, those sorts of things.

[buoyant seal]

Many graduates wish to receive top possible salary, and preferably working like in Google.
There is a point to agree even to three times less possible salary of a junior, and well agreeing to any Dev related work

[forest jungle]

Oh, yeah idgaf about salary at this point. I need experience, trajectory, and a foot in the industry.

[spark cobalt]

How many roles have you applied to btw?

[forest jungle]

I kinda have it blocked out. I get up, I go to my computer, I apply for jobs until burnout makes it impossible to press the "next page" button, and then I go to the gym.

And I try not to think about it.

[white relic]

mood

[forest jungle]

Okay so:

• Stop Capitalizing Every Word This Isn't C#
• Unix is not Linux (herp derp)
• Expand on ability to work under tight deadlines/with poor documentation
• Expand on projects/work to include more significant details
• Emphasize willingness to relocate

A Question- Someone said something along the lines of "Projects seem light for a MS"- should I actually be including MS work in projects? I was given to understand that I shouldn't include anything done for course credit.

[white relic]

I don't know why people think that. Anything you've done, for course credit or for a paycheck or for fun, is 100% fair game for your résumé

[sleek egret]

that last bit is not a rule, it's a mild suggestion to prevent you from adding in shit like homework assignments 🙂

[white relic]

It could get out of hand if you start adding every little assignment, true

[spark cobalt]

If you're aiming for a generic backend role, your projects are very very lackluster on that end.

[forest jungle]

STAR Method: Turned in 87% of homework assignments in within 2 days of the due date for an average grade of 71%, reducing effort spent on the class by 99%

[sleek egret]

lol

[white relic]

Hired!

[spark cobalt]

Slackbot is kind of like

[forest jungle]

It's akin to what I said before- I don't have much heavy weight stuff to work with (aside from probably the parallel agent thing).

[sleek egret]

"wrote a GPT app to do my homework and take my exams for me. sadly, it was only able to reach 75% ac curacy. This is why I got a 2.5 GPA."

[forest jungle]

"Demonstrates the ability to rapidly apply modern technology to novel problems, hired"

[spark cobalt]

Is there something holding you back from building up your portfolio?

[pastel thunder]

Actually i realised a lot of the "know to be good company" dont post job on linkedin/elsewhere, and there website is the only way apart from campus drive.
Is there a good source/way/search tactic to keep track if it? If its something specifically for India, then even better. Thanks

[forest jungle]

I am... not in a secure living environment and have been unable to do so. I also struggle with "DO X FOR PORTFOLIO" because I like projects that are useful to me in some way (directly useful, that is) which results in lightweight projects with very narrow scope. (which compounds the problem)

That's part of why my goal here is kind of nonspecific- I'm sort of aiming for anything I might be qualified for so I get the time and space to actually work on what I want to do.

[vapid jay]

rrrr

[white relic]

A double BS + MS is solid. Even from a "meh" school, with a thin portfolio, I think you should still be applying to stuff you want to do. Especially if you can spruce it up a bit and sell the experience you do have a bit more positively.
You can keep a version that you use for applying to general development roles but I wouldn't let that stop you applying to the roles you really want.

[spark cobalt]

Especailly cuz you seem to have prior experience as well, I'd just drop the new grad roles and gun for junior roles. Junior roles is like a completely different world lol.

My company typically gets like no more than 20 applicants for all of our jobs, but the moment we put out a new grad one it went to 200+ applicants in 3 days. Shit is wild

Easier to stick out a 20 person stack with your education status and prior experience than stick out in a 300 person stack.

[forest jungle]

Yeah I wanted to ask about skipping entry level entirely and just trying to go for junior dev since even if I'm less qualified the ratio of applications to positions isn't as hostile.

[sleek egret]

can't hurt to try

[smoky quest]

entry levels are generally the same thing than junior.
The amount of companies who might be that distinction is more on the minority and might be more related to their own career ladder than an industry wide term

[forest jungle]

I meant simply to imply whatever a given company's "Entry + 1" position is.

[near ocean]

Do you have some experience?

[smoky quest]

Assuming we are talking junior -> midlevel -> senior, you would not qualify for midlevel without the required experience.
You would have better ROI improving your resume and projects on your resume

[forest jungle]

I would point out that I don't think I've qualified for a single one of the so-called "entry" level jobs I've seen either but I acknowledge your point.

[smoky quest]

that's a bigger problem then. If you don't qualify for entry level, then aiming for above that would make it less realistic.
What makes you think you don't qualify for entry level?

[forest jungle]

The overwhelming majority of entry level jobs I see want 5+ years of experience

[smoky quest]

5+ years of experience is not entry level

[forest jungle]

I'm aware of that. Someone should inform the companies listing these jobs as "entry level"

Hence the "I acknowledge your point" on the end of my previous statement

[smoky quest]

Looking at indeed/linkedin for entry level, I don't find that as the overwhelming majority of jobs though.
you can also set some filters on years of experience in their UI

[near ocean]

Ads are mislabelled, you shouldnt be looking at whatever label linkedin/indeed puts on them but reading the entire description and deciding

[forest jungle]

I've noticed that. Nevertheless the overwhelming majority of supposedly entry-level jobs do not have entry level requirements (at least when I search, possibly user error)

Regardless, probably not a useful path of inquiry. Not much I can do on that end.

[spark cobalt]

Anecdotally from people I know and myself, no one really filled every checkbox of the role they're in now.

[smoky quest]

I just went to indeed and search for "software engineer", set location to Austin, Tx and set the filter to entry level jobs. Going through the first page, none of the ad require 5 years of experience

[smoky quest]

I would dig deeper though. Because that's just wrong. That means you aren't surfacing the jobs that match your current skillset

[near ocean]

Besides the years of experience requirement what do you expect an entry level/junior role to list as requirements and what are you seeing in your searches?

[forest jungle]

Not a hiring manager. I'm responding to the listed requirements, not writing them 😅 ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[near ocean]

You say they dont look like entry level requirements, so what do you expect entry level requirements to look like

[forest jungle]

My soft rule is that wanting 3+ years of previous job experience is not really entry-level. Seeing as I haven't been hired and have not participated in anyone's hiring process from the other side I may be incorrect on this.

In any case, something something user error. That's a problem I need to solve but not the problem I am currently trying to work on.

[spark cobalt]

Maybe you're just suffering from looking at LinkedIn job postings. Linkedins job postings have god awful filters that put a bunch of mid level under the entry level filter.

[forest jungle]

That is my suspicion. I'll be using indeed more for a few weeks after I get done fixing my resume.

[still condor]

I think I'm in some kind of limbo in relation to "level"

it's a social construct anyway

"Junior" positions would starve me to death while "middle" positions seem way over my head

[near ocean]

Its kind of pointless, theres no hard line on what level you are
There are kids that can build entire apps themselves and there's seniors that can barely switch on their laptops

[still condor]

I'm the best of both worlds
||A kid who can barely switch on their laptop||

hey, there's an Object Pascal position in my area

[buoyant seal]

there are quite different difficulty environments.

1. build crappy app in whatever way you can
2. dive and try to swim in already super big difficult project without documentation 😆

in first environment even kid can swim
in second environment... easy to get drown

[forest jungle]

3. Build crappy big project in whatever way you can

[still condor]

• without documentation (important requirement)

[spark cobalt]

Sounds like you already graduated from the junior level

Unless you mean starve literally

[still condor]

well, I meant that I am very much not satisfied with my current "junior" salary, and junior position seem to offer even less...

starvation is out of the picture for now but stuff like going to the dentist is subject to careful financial planning

[near ocean]

Your problem is entirely geographical lol
Can you migrate to the EU?

[still condor]

There is one way, but it involves a particular European country being accepted into the EU and me getting forced to go and remain there... forever 💀

seriously though, it's kinda problematic 😄

But yeah, I agree that there is a significant issue of... stuff here. With many companies going out of business, and many having/choosing to not develop their business further.

[near ocean]

Marry a cute finn

[still condor]

to marry a cute finn, I first need to find a finn 🙂

[plush hazel]

yo any physics major or who wants to be?

[zealous path]

Never date a pole, my wife made that mistake

To me that sounds like creating and spearheading a project

[forest jungle]

That poor woman.

[summer roost]

things that you achieved within the context of your career

[still condor]

Yeah I would hit it every time I get out of bed. I prefer humans personally

[summer roost]

if you're a student who has never worked professionally, you have no professional achievements, by definition

you might have awards or honors or relevant education, but you can't have had professional achievements

leave it blank? Name academic honors instead of professional achievements?

are you a member of any honor societies or professional groups or anything like that?

if not, honestly, I'd probably just put "None (yet!)" or something cheeky like that.

[buoyant seal]

u achieved being a student 🙂 that is already an achievement

[spark cobalt]

It doesn't have to be some reward someone else gave to you or something. Surely you achieved something in your life that you're proud of.

[brave bridge]

whats a good source for learning about BI ?

[forest jungle]

A follow up resume based on advice received on the first one, input would be appreciated.

[still condor]

damn...

[true harness]

a lot of white space between the projects. that's like an extra bullet at least

[still condor]

i think it's ok

[true harness]

wait so did you double major? how did you get 2 BS at the same time

[forest jungle]

I was actually triple majoring for a while before someone informed me you do actually need to sleep at some point in order to graduate.

[still condor]

total B.S.

[peak halo]

Are the projects things that you're doing in relation to your masters program? I would assign dates to them if you can. Do you have any papers related to those in submission?

[still condor]

One thing that I would find strange as a recruiter -- your work experience does not match at all your research interest

[true harness]

i thought you just get a single BS from double majoring

[forest jungle]

Depends on the program. Some Universities will have a "Bachelors of Math and Computer science" that's an interdisciplinary thing, but in my case I completed both programs separately.

[smoky quest]

• Experience means professional experience? If so, you may want to add if they are part time.
• For your app programmer, it may help to have an idea of how big is the user base
• Cuda project, 2nd bullet- it would be great to give more details on these algorithms. The claim to fame is nice though
• For your cuda and evolutionary neural network projects, it would be nice to explain a bit what you did with them

Other than that, it looks nice.
Given your resume, I assume you aren't looking for your standard webapp (backend/frontend/ds) job and should expect a lower pool of jobs. Not that it should stop you or discourage you

[forest jungle]

Honestly I'd prefer web dev for now but the last time I hosted a website we were still arguing over whether xhtml was the future or not

[smoky quest]

As a candidate, you may also expect some questions in terms of timing. Half year between now and your graduation will raise some eyebrows

[forest jungle]

Yeah. Not much I can do about that either. Possibly fortunately there was a snafu with the uni regarding actually giving me my degree that I may be able to exaggerate slightly to make it seem less unreasonable. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Is it considered "okay" to change job titles from what they were listed as to what I actually did? Because that application programmer job was essentially a full stack web dev position

[smoky quest]

I would keep as is for consistency and avoiding potential problems

[forest jungle]

Good to know. Back to the hunt I guess. Appreciate the help folks o7

[worthy gust]

Hi guys, I am new to Python just started to read a book How to use Pyhton for dummies. If anyone else here is in a similar situation it would be great to study with someone.

[peak torrent]

Hey guys, wondering to get this course https://drive.google.com/file/d/1S0sZKFtLeFzbPmclWDXhrRFKXcyyzNQH/view however, I not completlty sure if will be better just to take the free course from Kaglee

Any advice will be super appreciate. Thank you!! 🙏

[peak torrent]

https://www.kaggle.com/learn I wanna to apply on real state side. That why I found this one.

[smoky quest]

What's the expected outcome? What's the alternative?
In the context of careers, a CS degree will be the path of least resistance and with the most opportunities and compensation

[peak torrent]

It going to be apply in a real state company. The company will be pay for it. However, it doesn't make any sense if the same info is teach in the free course from Kaggle. Also, I'm studying CS, but I'm not taking these courses until next year.

[smoky quest]

if a company is paying you for it, then why not? You get access to teachers and materials

[peak torrent]

I reviewed and the paid course offer a better path relate with real state company. Yes, I was thinkin the same thing according that I will have access to professors and TAs

Also, if there is other course related with real state and data science I will also take in consideration if someone wants to share 😄

[white relic]

Do you mean real estate?

[peak torrent]

yes

I also found some bootcamps, but there is not way to spend 10k in that.

[peak torrent]

This one is $2.387

[smoky quest]

fyi, for career, they aren't worth much though

[peak torrent]

oh yeah, but if they are paying for that. I don't mind to spend a few hours per week to get some skills.

[smoky quest]

yeah for sure!

[peak torrent]

Does anyone know other platform that offers those kinds of certifications?

[smoky quest]

udemy, coursera

[peak torrent]

I didn't fin anything better than this. Even tough the Kaggle free course path is pretty solid

I will get it. I will certainly share my opinion here. 😄

[primal pollen]

Is this good enough??

[smoky quest]

for a career? no

[primal pollen]

Not for a career

For hacking

Cuz i m a c++ learner

[smoky quest]

It's not a shitposting channel

[burnt zephyr]

hi guys, i got contacted today, about a job, but what are the questions to ask? for safety ?

i.e. the company name...

[smoky quest]

How did they find you, what is the job about, where it's located, what are the expectations, what will be the work contract...

[karmic basin]

Hi

ImportError: cannot import name 'SendSms' from 'sms' HELP ME

[smoky quest]

Hi!
This has nothing to do with #career-advice . You may want to check #❓｜how-to-get-help

[latent latch]

Okay so i jsut started seriously learning python (in college)
What are some good paying fields that i can get into that will land me a job and what do i have to know in python to prepare me for them?

[smoky quest]

anything related to CS is usually well paid

[latent latch]

great that's my major

[smoky quest]

so you are good to go

[sleek egret]

"what do i have to know in python"? well, pretty much everything

[spark cobalt]

Sleep time rmah

[sleek egret]

sun's almost up

well, sun's almost peeking over the horizon

[spark cobalt]

Oh

Still a while till sunrise

[primal pollen]

Srry

[azure cape]

from where can i learn app development

anyone please help

[buoyant seal]

what kind of app development you wish to learn?
for which OS, of what type?

[sleek egret]

I prefer developing libraries. that way I can blame app developers for any problems.

[little abyss]

I just learned python but I'm unable to do any projects
Whenever I try to build a project I encounter modules that I've never heard before

For example I wanted to create a discord bot using python
All tutorials use the discord module that I am not familiar with

Any solutions/suggestions?

[sleek egret]

I suggest learning how to use the discord module

[buoyant seal]

Learning how to read official documentation to new modules (discord)
https://youtube.com/shorts/-yWiHsGdFKQ?feature=share

[stone orchid]

is fiverr a good place to start freelancing? (if youre under 18 and in a third world country)

[peak halo]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you're not going to find any freelancing opportunities anywhere if you don't already have a substantial portfolio.

[stone orchid]

it looks pretty easy

ill just put low price at first

[peak halo]

Let me know if you are successful.

[stone orchid]

well, what would you recommend?

[peak halo]

I'm not sure. what country are you from?

[stone orchid]

i can use a vpn haha (no job offline)

[peak halo]

That's not why I asked

[soft urchin]

I'm currently doing python course that is focused around practical exercises. Would it be a good idea to put some of the complex exercises on a GitHub?

[stone orchid]

russia, your fav country!

i had to go to korea to make a gpt account 💀

[soft urchin]

VPN won't work, freelance services recognize it easily

[stone orchid]

sure, the screenshot i gave is fake lol

[peak halo]

I'm not sure that anyone can give you good advice at the moment, unfortunately, since it remains to be seen what Russia's relationship with the rest of the world will be.

[true harness]

you mean for a portfolio? it can't really hurt

[soft urchin]

I'm talking about receiving money, almost all services are banned for us

[stone orchid]

it doesn't matter if i can't get it out of the account yet, it's still money later + portfolio & experience

[soft urchin]

Yeah, I'm thinking of polishing some hard exercises and uploading them as my little projects (cause they kinda are)

[stone orchid]

also theres ways 👀

[graceful lion]

are you sure that services are gonna unban russia? 👀

[stone orchid]

hope isn't unhealthy)

theres way of getting the money, trust

[graceful lion]

keep hoping you`ll get it 😹

[stone orchid]

russia is a good country, but a bad government, dw it stood for a 1000 years

[graceful lion]

how do you have friend in other countrys?

[soft urchin]

The only way to receive money now is to open a bank account in neighbour countries, and to not get banned on freelance services immediately, you need to rent a vps server

[stone orchid]

i alr have some accounts that i made when i was out of russia, as well as yk those shady websites

but that doesnt matter

[graceful lion]

yeah but how are you gonna open bank account in neighbour countries you have to be their citizen i guess

[soft urchin]

Afaik not always

[west badger]

I know this is too much off topic but I want to know that do anyone of you invest in stock market?

[stone orchid]

i think i have a paypal account i can tranfer through

[soft urchin]

Anyway, did anyone do mooc.fi python? Is it good to learn python precisely for web development?

[soft urchin]

Would love to

[west badger]

You do or don't?

[soft urchin]

No moneys(

[stone orchid]

no ages(

[west badger]

Then I need someone else bcz I have some questions regarding that

[haughty wasp]

Hey Hi guys, new here

[true harness]

ask in an off topic channel

[haughty wasp]

!! 🙂

[stone orchid]

hi

[west badger]

Ok

[latent pike]

is it possible to find entry level development positions now without any prior experience or very little experience? I have an IT degree and QA background but it seems like there is no transition to developing from here. Just curious.

[brave wolf]

any good careers you can get doing PY which wouldn't require a degree

I'm going to start by getting the PCEP

[peak halo]

web development might have a lower barrier-to-entry as compared to other domains, but if you're a young person without professional experience, you'd probably be a lot better off getting a degree.

[brave wolf]

Are there no certs ect that you think could land me an entry lvl?

[cursive tree]

I would say there are many ways to get a job. The question is how self-motivated are you and how fast do you want a job?

[brave wolf]

I have a job currently but it's in IT not got any programming involved I'm very self motivated I'd be happy to put in a couple hours a day including weekends to study for a cert ect

[vapid jay]

IS KTINKER IS EASY?

[final nest]

Hi

[vapid jay]

HELLO THERE!

[final nest]

I'm building an API in Python which will provide the user with random test data which he/she can use for development

[cursive tree]

I used to be in recruiting/hiring, previously mostly focused on university recruiting. Now we mostly hire people based off skills rather than pieces of paper.

[final nest]

For eg. A random name, dateofbirth, country, email, phone no etc

[cursive tree]

Like faker?

[final nest]

Basically all this data is fake which can be used for testing code especially

[vapid jay]

HOW DO I USE PYTHON?

[brave wolf]

@cursive tree That's good to hear are you in the US or UK because I'm in the UK and not sure how the recuriting will differ

[final nest]

similar

[cursive tree]

I'm in both. I have business in the UK and USA.

[brave wolf]

because I'm worried I'll have the skills but not the degree to show for it

[vapid jay]

WHERE CAN I USE IT?

[final nest]

So i wanted to know how to improvise the API. is there any particular ideas which you think i can implement to mke my api unique

[brave wolf]

Are there any particular certs that you would say are admirable I've been looking at the PY institute ones would you reccomend?

[cursive tree]

If you are in London, a great group is the London Tech Network which can help you land jobs. They mostly focus on startups.

[final nest]

does anyone have suggestions

[brave wolf]

thanks for the suggestion when I get a few certs and have the knowledge will 100% look into it and will keep that noted

[cursive tree]

I don't think I've ever looked at the certs people have, I normally get a feel of someones skill by having them show they can solve problems in the interview then in probation on the job or through coding challenges/homework.

[brave wolf]

I see would you advise starting a github maybe to show my skills?

[cursive tree]

I'm more impressed if someone has contributed to open source projects or built their own product on the side or done talks. Also you probably will get recruiters reaching out to you if you can get to the point of doing talks.

[brave wolf]

Ok thanks for the help @cursive tree

[vapid jay]

this is extremely vague 😅

[stone orchid]

download it from the official website https://www.python.org/downloads/

[charred spade]

So..

I have no job experience.
I have a freeCodeCamp Python certificate (basically the same as a Coursera Python for Everybody cert).
I've studied PostgreSQL, but have no certificate.
I've got a kaggle Pandas certificate.
I don't have a portfolio.

Is it possible for me to get a job? As a data scientist?

Is it possible to get a job in the USA from outside of the USA (like a work from home thing, where u never have to sign a contract, and they send ur salary to ur account in another country, and.. take care of taxes)?

[jolly falcon]

I have a few questions for the people who work with programming, trying to gather some opinions and see what tools are commonly used professionally, more answers = wider knowledge for me 🙂

What's your personal favorite operating system/distro?
What operating system/distro do you use on the computer you code with at your job?
What's your personal favorite code editor?
What code editor do you use professionally at your work?
What's your personal favorite programming language?
What programming language do you primarily work with at your current job?
What's your personal cloud hosting service for repositories?
What cloud hosting service do you use for repositories at your job?
Do you find yourself scrolling the documentation more or watching video/blog tutorials?

[true harness]

you could look at the SO survey for most of those answers. also, most of them just don't matter

[near ocean]

Most of these arent really career relevant, are people gonna complain if you use vim instead of vscode or pycharm?
The rest youre kind of stuck with as a result of decisions people have already made, ie i cant really get the company to change the repo host
Only question i can answer is that i use python primarily and the issues we face arent really solvable through videos

[deft herald]

Yeah i agree with these 2. Also, my "personal favorite" ends up being whatever i use at work because, well, that's all i use. That being said...

What's your personal favorite operating system/distro?
- Don't really have a favorite. They all have different uses. I like MacOS a lot but i can't afford the hardware
What operating system/distro do you use on the computer you code with at your job?
- Windows 10 Enterprise
What's your personal favorite code editor?
- VSCode
What code editor do you use professionally at your work?
- VSCode. Have used SlickEdit a lot too
What's your personal favorite programming language?
- Kind of same answer as question 1. But i like Python and C and C++, though I'm quite rusty in the latter 2
What programming language do you primarily work with at your current job?
- Python
What's your personal cloud hosting service for repositories?
- GitHub
What cloud hosting service do you use for repositories at your job?
- GitHub, Perforce
Do you find yourself scrolling the documentation more or watching video/blog tutorials?
- Definitely documentation

[jolly falcon]

thanks for the reply 😄

[sleek egret]

my information is private and confidential

[deft herald]

The OS you use at work is confidential?

[sleek egret]

I can neither confirm nor deny

[pine sleet]

He uses AmogOS at work

[buoyant seal]

What's your personal favorite operating system/distro?

• I am web backend developer + DevOps engineer => i use Kubuntu LTS versions 20.04 / 22.04 🙂 KDE plasma gui is cool
  What operating system/distro do you use on the computer you code with at your job?
• Still Kubuntu LTS, at home and at work 😆 with working from home there is small difference though
  What's your personal favorite code editor?
• Vscode is universal for all my needs, Python, Golang, Terraform, Docker, Kubernetes and all other languages and tools
  What code editor do you use professionally at your work?
• Still vscode
  What's your personal favorite programming language?
• Ergh, i tend to like Golang recently. Planning to learn out of curiosity Java next though
  What programming language do you primarily work with at your current job?
• Python.
  What's your personal cloud hosting service for repositories?
• Github with backup at Gitlab
  What cloud hosting service do you use for repositories at your job?
• Github
  Do you find yourself scrolling the documentation more or watching video/blog tutorials?
• Documentation reading is pretty often. Otherwise, stack overflow/reddit (or even going over github issues over instrument), reading books, finding text tutorials. But never ever video tutorials, they are the biggest waste of time.

[buoyant seal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukTnyciSDwk 🎶 Among Us Theme Song (Sembari Remix) 🎶

[deft pelican]

What's your personal favorite operating system/distro?

• I prefer Linux over Windows, but I have weak opinion on Linux dist. I use Xubuntu at home and work.
  What's your personal favorite code editor?
• Vim/Neovim (which I use at work)
• On my windows laptop I have sublime accessible for note-taking.
  What's your personal favorite programming language?
• I like to learn new stuff.
  What programming language do you primarily work with at your current job?
• I use python c++ and verilog mostly at work. I like the 1st one and somewhat hate the other two.
  What cloud hosting service do you use for repositories at your job?
• None. We have a local, self-hosted git server.
  Do you find yourself scrolling the documentation more or watching video/blog tutorials?
• Docs

It's good to have wide technology knowledge. As a hardware developer, I have had use for html(!).

The more tools you know ...

[dreamy shadow]

Do you have a degree?

Possible to get a job as a DS: With what you have listed, no, statistically improbable. Data Scientist positions often require graduate degrees as a minimum + additional years of work experience.
Possible to get a job in the USA from outside of the USA: No. Maybe a few positions exist, very rare either way. To get a job in the USA as a foreigner requires you to have stellar resume + often a graduate degree.

[sleek egret]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6aeXTf5nOo

[buoyant seal]

disagreeing. it is first responsibility of developer to learn most relevant technologies to his specialization 😛

[sleek egret]

woops, thought this was an off-topic channel

[spice pilot]

Hey guys,
Pleasw hlep,
I’ve been offered an MIS Analyst/Tableau developer role,is it a good entry level role and will i be able to switch to data science in future??

[deft pelican]

Of course there is a scale, and some technologies will be more relevant. But more often than not, even "distant" knowledge can be useful - in my experience.

[buoyant seal]

they can be. But better evaluating them in like

1. Technologies directly related to your specialization:
   From easy to learn && most relevant -> to hardest to learn and most rare to use
2. Technologies related to very nearby related specializations that are often assumed as continued career step:
   Tech from most relevant && easy to learn -> to hardest to learn and most rare to use
3. And only after that all other tech should follow.

Additional reorders to this list can be made based on your own interests and enthusiasm, since it will help to learn way faster any interested thing.

then chance of probability, that technology will be useful during career is pretty much maximized

[true harness]

with any job, you will have to sign contracts

[deft pelican]

Getting "out of you bubble" is valuable not just for using that specific thing, but for getting a different perspective. Sometimes it might lead you to a completely different solution or open up other ways of thinking. Not to be underestimated I would say.

I mean, I don't know python 100%, when should I stop "learning" python and move on to the next tool/technology, for example?

[buoyant seal]

Ergh. not sure about your case, but in my case web development is large enough to be never ever learnt in a whole lifetime.

1. There are many languages just in backend development
2. many different types of databases and other tech still related to backend
3. many additional languages related to DevOps engineering
4. and besides that there are already different role in web like, leadership ones, frontend, QA and e.t.c. And that is besides deeper sub specializations to my already taken specializations, like DevSecOps, platform engineering, MLOps and etc

Surely, i learn the most interesting next thing outside of python, but that is all still most relevant to backend and devops already. like learned Golang recently and planning to learn Java will benefit all my specializations

[buoyant seal]

in my case i need carefully choosing languages and technologies i wish to learn and upkeep knowledge from becoming outdated
I estimate Python + Golang + Java + Infrastructure related languages like (Terraform-AWS, Kubernetes, Docker, Github Actions and etc) stuff will already overfill my plate over the board of what i can upkeep, and continuing learning them as they become updated with newer stuff, or just learning them deeper will be pretty much enough to me
Ecosystems of three programming languages should be large enough in itself to upkeep. Living in their communities, communicating with members to learn new stuff, reading official documentation / visiting events (and that is not remembering depth of Kubernetes)

[smoky quest]

The general recommendation for engineers is to go T shaped: broad base but can go deep in a specific area.
So in that sense, you may want to learn different programming languages as to see different paradigms and ways to solve problems. But you may want to build some expertise in a 1-2 language that will be relevant to your skillset

[deft pelican]

I find myself rather going "backwards" the last 2 years, getting even more comfortable in awk/linux/manpages/git/shell.
Going for the the fun stuff is absolutely a winner, no matter what! 🙂

[deft pelican]

I think I'm mountain shaped: 山

[buoyant seal]

I am still thinking if i will ever learn kubernetes in depth to all its possible details 😆 so far dived only for 4 layers i guess 🤔 in some things only getting things from deeper layers

[deft pelican]

Do you have an original for that pic, can't read it

[buoyant seal]

i go for this shape 😁

[buoyant seal]

https://asankov.dev/blog/2022/05/15/demystifying-the-kubernetes-iceberg-part-1/

[eager tide]

hi which channel is it for help

[deft pelican]

Oh, horrendous monster 😆 I barely know kubernetes by name - and I don't want to know more 😛

[leaden jasper]

Check out #❓｜how-to-get-help

[lusty tusk]

Hello

[buoyant seal]

Kubernetes solves a lot of problems 😁 (And introduces a hundred of new ones 😛 )

[deft pelican]

It's an upgrade to the regexp thing!!

"Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I'll use regular expressions." Now they have two problems." (https://blog.codinghorror.com/regular-expressions-now-you-have-two-problems/)

[buoyant seal]

Offer me alternative for parsing from text lines multiple arranged words easily into different variables 😁 Then we could think of using something else.
At least there is beautiful soup 4 for html, which is great.

[deft pelican]

scanf?

[deft pelican]

nimlang does it elegantly: https://nim-lang.org/docs/strscans.html

[little abyss]

Where do I find them?

[buoyant seal]

Google:
{{Technology name}} [official] documentation
{{Technology name}} := service name [programming language name] | {{unique name of library}}
Usually one of first five links

[little abyss]

Is this the official one for the discord module? https://discordpy.readthedocs.io/en/stable/

[buoyant seal]

👍😁

[little abyss]

Great! Tysm ❤️

[pulsar sky]

Hi

[vapid jay]

👌

🖕

[analog sun]

Hi, please follow the #code-of-conduct and respect channel topics.

[vapid jay]

Ok bud

[latent pike]

I know this is a python discord but is it more beneficial to focus on just python or something like c++ and python as a secondary? Or become proficient in one before attempting any other languages?

[dreamy shadow]

It's better to learn the fundamentals of CS instead. Language can change over time.

[latent pike]

cs as in computer science?

[dreamy shadow]

Yes, think of programing languages as the tools in a tool box.

[latent pike]

that makes sense

i went to school for IT with my electives all CS but my career has been QA. Wanted to learn more coding/scripting to transfer to the developing side

[willow creek]

https://youtu.be/hoCCwqZTdL8

[pine sleet]

How does this relate to career discussions?

[buoyant seal]

and it is also very wrong instruction: step one is supposed to be delete Windows, step two is to install Linux 😆

[zealous path]

Simply download more RAM

[white bridge]

Is getting a IT networking diploma a good idea

[dreamy shadow]

If that's the field/job you want to go into.

[white relic]

"diploma" can mean a variety of things depending on where in the world you are and what level of education you have already

[true harness]

do companies like hackathons? trying to decide which project to put. one made in hackathon, one personal

[peak halo]

did you win?

[true harness]

no 😩, but i thought our project was interesting i'm actually kind of annoyed at my teammates, but whatever

[peak halo]

more interesting than your personal one?

also why can't you do both?

[smoky quest]

👏 demonstrated 👏 skills 👏

[true harness]

nospace😦

[true harness]

actually, i can squeeze all my libraries into one line and add both !

[inner wren]

shiv v1.0.3

A command line utility for building fully self contained Python zipapps.

[eternal plume]

Does python dev actually exist as a job?
I've only seen Dev that does "everything" instead of just python

[brazen comet]

It's almost impossible this day and age to land a job with just Python alone. Many different fields require the knowledge and experience utilizing Python as the language for development, along with the many frameworks that it entails.

[eternal plume]

like django or flask?

[brazen comet]

Those a a few. For example, I'm aiming to land somewhere within the field of machine learning, so I'd need to learn how to use and implement libraries such as Tensorflow or Sckit-learn, to name a few.

[eternal plume]

Good thing I learned to use them

[summer roost]

almost every job requires you to switch between multiple languages depending on the type of problem you're solving.

[buoyant seal]

My job title is called python Dev 🙂 in reality it is Python backend development though. There is always need for more practical application/domain knowledge in thing X, u can't be knowing just syntax of python

[sleek egret]

yar

[west badger]

anyone knows what credit here means in India?like is it just the marks of that subject?

[buoyant seal]

Probably same as everywhere else. It is score for translation of educational program value into European (Bologna) system. Check if u can receive European supplement paper to your diploma after graduation

[sleek egret]

what if he has no diploma?

[buoyant seal]

it will not stop him from checking in advance 🙂
Also best getting answer to your question @west badger at administration of your university. Students in my university could ask any questions they want... at Deanery room, where secretary was exactly to process students requests and questions. That would be the most accurate source of information regarding your question

[sleek egret]

yes well, happy valentine's day

[zealous path]

Happy Valentine’s Day to you too ❤️

[quartz aspen]

Recruiters not knowing what is what, part n:
I'm checking my LinkedIn messages (which I haven't checked in ages) and there's "Back End (GUI) Developer" offer... 🙄Moreover, the description says it's a web app and they require knowing Linux. 🤔

[pine sleet]

There are like 5 things wrong there

[quartz aspen]

Yes. That's why I decided to post it here

[pine sleet]

Are recruiters generally supposed to be people who actually work in the team for which they're recruiting for?

[quartz aspen]

The title itself was weird enough, but the requirements (python, databases/sql, Linux) and later the mention of the project they're hiring for (making a web app) just added more spice

[quartz aspen]

They should prepare the job offer itself and have an interview as tech person. But external recruiters or recruiters for whole company and not a specific department know very little about actual tech

[gritty rivet]

The good ones do, most don't

[white relic]

This is true, but the recruiter probably didn't write the job title or description. Which means they got handed it by someone who should know better and had to do their best to find people matching that description
Garbage in, garbage out

[quartz aspen]

Or the recruiter mixed up several offers or something. Maybe. But that also means that the company/tech people gave the offers in a messed up way that was easy to confuse.

[cold bridge]

coding might be hard but some kid coding apps or websites help that have code that is like text code that helps them do python and this is what helped me do python to.

[balmy mural]

Got an interesting email about a week ago. Was contacted for a contract position as a lecturer for first year students at the old city I live in. I'm assuming someone left at short notice since they wanted someone who could start in 2 weeks and contract until they can find someone more qualified for the position. Had great pay though, 80% of my current salary, but only expected to work for 20 hours/week

I'm passing it up due to no longer living in the previous city anymore, but broad question to you all. At what % of your current salary would you consider doing a 1 year contract job if it only required 20 hours of work per week?

[spark cobalt]

150% or more.

A.) A lecturer also implies that you have to prepare lectures, slides, notes, potential homework, etc. This is a full time job in disguise, you're not going to have time to pursue anything else for money.
B.) This type of job isn't for me and is likely not going to propel my career any better than working as a software engineer at some company.

20 hours of lecturing a week sounds like many more hours of preparation needed.

[balmy mural]

Ignore the lecturer part, let's just assume it's contract work at a software engineering company that only requires 20 hours for some reason

[near ocean]

Definitely would not take a pay cut for a contractor position

[spark cobalt]

I think it depends on the company then.

At my current company, I have huge upward mobility opportunities, I'm a sole developer for a product that one of our biggest customer uses, etc. I'd essentially be sacrificing my opportunities for a WLB where I don't really have a life ngl and I'd spend working 40+ hours a week anyways.

Also what mariosis said.

[balmy mural]

Is a contractor position bad in general compared to a salaried position?

[near ocean]

It ends, job searching is difficult as it is

[spark cobalt]

There's also question of like benefits and other stuff too.

[near ocean]

Also more complications with invoicing and doing your own taxes and stuff like that

[balmy mural]

Taxes is true. Job search I guess depends on the country. Luckily I didn't have any trouble finding a job when I graduated

[near ocean]

You might not struggle now but you dont know if you'd struggle in the future

[quartz aspen]

I'm not doing full hours right now anyway. I refuse to get full hours because I'd just get burnt out and would need a reset (happened a bit when I was doing uni and work, my body literally forced me to do a reset - sleeping 10+ hours with basically no way to wake me up, my partner even tried pouring water on me...).

I'm currently at... 28 hours per week? "3.5 days" basically.
And I'm formally a contractor so it's kinda flexible. I literally cannot have hours forced on me in my contract (that would be too similar to actual employment which upon any inspection can inflict fines).

[vapid jay]

Ok

[stone path]

Does anyone know any remote positions for entry level python developers?

[buoyant seal]

Entry level + remote = sounds not very possible.
At best it is supposed to be: work from office first months, after that u may be can receive remote 😉

[true harness]

it is possible though . I've even seen remote internships

[gritty rivet]

!rule 9 But check the appropriate job boards for whatever country you are in... Indeed, LinkedIn, the official Python one, etc.

[inner wren]

Rules

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[neat wyvern]

it is nice of you to point out the rule, but he technically wasn't asking for paid work, -but rather just work- even though it might seem like what you saw at first glance.

[near ocean]

Entry level positions arent paid? In what world?

[smoky quest]

It's still not the right place for recruitment

[neat wyvern]

true.

[true harness]

iirc, slavery is illegal in most places

[near ocean]

Why would you always get an OA? Dont you have to be longlisted at least to be invited?

[true harness]

also like, not every company does auto OA 🤔

[sleek egret]

que OA?

[near ocean]

Online assessment

[sleek egret]

ah

well, time for dinner

[gaunt wren]

the unis here arent that good aswell

[zealous path]

What did I miss…

[true harness]

having trouble coming up with the interesting parts of my project for my resume and have to face the fact that maybe my project isn't that interesting 😔

[summer roost]

cope 😛

what's the project?

[true harness]

uh it's a java app that records audio and transcribes it. intended for classrooms to help ESL people understand better since it's usually easier to process text

[smoky quest]

There are entire startupS based on that concept. There is definitely a lot of room for some interesting things in it

[summer roost]

yeah, automatic speech-to-text is definitely not a solved problem. How did you tackle it?

[true harness]

free tier of an API 😤

[spark cobalt]

Oh

[smoky quest]

cool. Then can I select quotes? Index and search through them?
Provide some topics/analysis of the talks?

Any speech pattern I could correct?

[true harness]

not yet 😔. but hopefully soon? the goal was to include translations as well as definitions for things. if i understand what you're getting at, it would be cool if it would also function as a sort of notetaking app

[smoky quest]

That could evolve in a gazillions ways.
You could direct it for ESL people to provide more context. You could use it as note taking app. You could use it for sales (look up gong dot io for instance)

Audio is a file. But once you got text with metadata, anything is possible

[smoky quest]

On the ESL side, one of the most effective tool I have seen is one where the student watches a movie or listen to a song and has to retype what is said

Obviously, that takes time to get the captions by hand.
But if there was an app where that could be done automatically on any video or audio...

[true harness]

yeah 2 of my partners have ESL, which was nice for this project. that was pretty much their only contribution, though

honestly i learned a great lesson: make friends before going to a hackathon

[quaint smelt]

What is a good way to learn python quickly

[brazen comet]

Truth be told, 'quickly' for me took me 2 weeks while being deployed out to sea for a month, and I basically only understood the syntax. Understanding and implementing the language itself at the very least takes months. Even with know the rudimentary concepts of Python, reading an introductory book on the language sheds light on A LOT of things I didn't think twice about.

I'd personally recommend the route I took. If you're not learning while in college, start by watching some YouTube courses, but don't expect to become a master in Python just by watching videos. After which, read up from textbooks to get a more in-depth understanding, then branch off from there.

[elder beacon]

Is this channel okay to post my resume for a resume review?

[spark cobalt]

[inner wren]

Hey @elder beacon!

It looks like you tried to attach file type(s) that we do not allow (.pdf). We currently allow the following file types: .gif, .jpg, .jpeg, .mov, .mp4, .mpg, .png, .mp3, .wav, .ogg, .webm, .webp, .flac, .m4a, .csv, .json.

Feel free to ask in #community-meta if you think this is a mistake.

Hey @elder beacon!

It looks like you tried to attach file type(s) that we do not allow (.zip). We currently allow the following file types: .gif, .jpg, .jpeg, .mov, .mp4, .mpg, .png, .mp3, .wav, .ogg, .webm, .webp, .flac, .m4a, .csv, .json.

Feel free to ask in #community-meta if you think this is a mistake.

[elder beacon]

damn okay I guess posting doesn't work

https://fastupload.io/en/0jm2bhqMR7KZlwB/preview

this link should work

[hot zodiac]

why dont we allow .py

[smoky quest]

how is it relevant to #career-advice ?

[smoky quest]

• Anyone under 3-5 years of experience should have a resume fit on one page
• Fulltime jobs and part time jobs at the same time will be frown upon
• Your descriptions in the jobs is too verbose. You may want to synthesize it

[elder beacon]

okay cool thanks

[elder beacon]

any other critiques besides what recursive_error said?

[smoky quest]

auto OA is an implementation details. It's a sign they have too many applicants

whether it's automated or not, is an implementation details of the interview process

[white relic]

You in high school?

[smoky quest]

it can be hit or miss. It depends on what they are trying to filter on and if they focus on the skills or that one trick you must know

I haven't heard of anyone caring about that

[white relic]

I wouldn't put my SAT score on anything after graduation

even if it were super high

[smoky quest]

ah that's unfortunate. Some companies can be vain like that

if it makes you feel better, I had a friend in HFT who tried to get me in. But they don't pay as much as some tech companies. So not all is lost 😉

they will see it in the ATS. The ATS sees it all

[tardy iron]

hello!

can anyone help me with py script ?
https://www.metaseq.net/en/
to move obj1 down and rotate 180 ?

[smoky quest]

I would try. What's the worst that could happen?

[smoky quest]

Hi!
This has nothing to do with #career-advice . You may want to check #❓｜how-to-get-help

[tardy iron]

ok. :S

[smoky quest]

they won't shadowban

at worst, they will see you applied to multiple roles and aren't that interested in a specific role

there is a fine line between being enthusiastic and a stalker. As long as you don't cross it...

saying thank you for interviews, following up after an interview and reinforcing your interest can also go a long way

thank the machine?
Or try to be like "I failed the OA but I still want to say how much I am motivated to learn"

[white relic]

I wouldn't say it that way. It's passive aggressive

well personally I'd just forget about it, there will be other opportunities

[tardy iron]

so my help section got closed -."

☠️

[white relic]

But if you want to follow up on it, just come through the front door. "I applied to X position, I understand there's usually an online assessment but I didn't get it. Can you tell me what I would need to do to be considered for this position?"
Something like that

they may not be able to tell you, but there could be something simple you can fix, or maybe they'll see that your resume was rejected for trivial reasons and just bump you into the OA queue

[vapid jay]

does anyone here work for themselves?
anyone built a mobile app?

[smoky quest]

some people do and some people don't

[vapid jay]

that's good! I can't work for anyone any more. I want to be inspired

[sleek egret]

if you're working for yourself, you need to be the one that inspires others

[brittle thorn]

And inspire yourself to work too... it can be lonely if sole proprietor... without discipline it will fall apart

[near ocean]

Most people should not take the risk of quitting to start their own business

[sleek egret]

if you search for inspiration, you will never find it. instead, cultivate self-discipline and perseverance and you will see your inspiration in hindsight.

[final nest]

Hi. I am a high school student and I am looking to find simple python jobs that i can do part-time. At the moment, I am aware of Numpy, Tkinter, Matplotlib, Pandas and API development with Flask. Is there any way I can monetise my skills?

[peak halo]

Probably not. Your time would be better spent preparing for university.

[near remnant]

Is it fine if I put some skills on the 'Skills' section on my resume, which I'm not an expert at but used it at my last backend job? For example I used Linux daily and used some zsh / bash commands and have a general idea of things, is it ok if I put 'Linux' at the 'Skills' section without stating the level of proficiency? I'm not a fan of 5/level stuff.

[peak halo]

as long as you're prepared to explain what your "linux skill" is during an interview, yes.

[true harness]

is it assumed that applicants have git knowledge or stuff like unix experience? i'm kinda running out of room

[buoyant seal]

for interns and juniors nothing is assumed (and even for middle devs too). I already saw middle (claiming to be) web devs having no idea what is Git or Linux.
From that point i sweared i will always write Git and Linux to my resume skills if i know them xD
To be honest i saw such examples even among claiming to be Senior devs

[near remnant]

You mean like, telling them my level of proficiency? Like I was using linux, used manjaro, zsh, common commands like mkdir, echo, history, date, cat, etc. Also used the zsh for docker.

So if I tell them what is my experience with Linux, is it ok, even though I'm just a beginner with it?

[near remnant]

How can you be a middle web dev and dont know git

[turbid dome]

kinda understandable if they worked in microsoft and don't know linux 🤷‍♂️ had a few colleagues like that before

[buoyant seal]

i even saw Senior dev having very vague idea what is git 😆 I mean he was using it... but it was very far from any modern web gitops it should be.
this senior was database expert with 11 years of experience, but as dev he sucked greatly

[near remnant]

Jeez...

[buoyant seal]

as for middle web devs, this is usually very arrogant over confident frontend developers, who to middle rank do not learn what is git or unit testing, and proclaim being full stack devs

[near remnant]

Now I feel better as a junior 😂

[true harness]

i'm kinda running out of room for the cooler things, though

[peak halo]

I don't know that there are "levels of proficiency" with linux. and those commands are part of bash moreso than linux. but if you feel like it's worth mentioning, and they feel like it's worth asking about, just be prepared to answer "what is your experience with linux?"

[sleek egret]

there are definitely levels of proficiency with linux

[near remnant]

Ah sure, my question was basically, if I used linux as a daily OS for my backend dev job, can I put Linux as a Skill on my resume. Even though my skills in Linux is kinda limited. But yeah, should be fine I guess.

I never add levels to my resume, just list skills.

[buoyant seal]

Sometimes all you want from juniors, is having solid foundation in basic skills
it is so nice when person went through this awesome tutorial https://learngitbranching.js.org/, learned how to operate Git CLI for sure. Learned to commit every moment of their work, many times per day

[sleek egret]

e.g. I'd expect an "expert" to be able to setup recurring jobs with dependencies using systemd

[near remnant]

I will have a devops interview tomorrow guys, wish me luck. I already feel like a dead person from anxiety. 💀💀💀

[sleek egret]

or setup ethernet network bonding, or configure various sorts of firewall rules. or setup a watcher for file changes.

[sleek egret]

good luck! and why be anxious? the worst that can happen is they don't make you an offer.

no

[buoyant seal]

Also, don't forget that resume are scanned by parsers first, what was the name of those systems forgot. So better mentioning Git at least once, just to increase your... buzzword count for parsing count. Concentrate on writing new buzzwords in same way matching those systems

[sleek egret]

exaggeration or omission is one thing. lying means that, if you get caught, they'll fire you.

[near remnant]

Thanks guys. I went through some udemy courses and read interview questions just to prepare somehow. In topics as Docker, SQL, Linux, AWS, Cloud architecture. We will see.

[sleek egret]

it's a proxy for IQ

it's illegal to ask about IQ in the US. and GPA is only valid within a school.

[near remnant]

Im glad im from Europe 😆

[true harness]

filtering on SAT score is something else lmao

[sleek egret]

why do you think they're "pissin on me" when you haven't even seen their reaction yet?

[near remnant]

[sleek egret]

honestly, you're gaslighting yourself

[near remnant]

Company ceo told me they fine with me having low experience in devops, I can learn stuff on-the-job. Is it a thing tho?

[sleek egret]

so?

[sleek egret]

of course it's a thing. most jr hires are idiots who barely know how to walk and chew gum at the same time.

[true harness]

no

huh? i'm in school

[near remnant]

Lmao. Now i feel better 😆 thanks!

Do u guys think I should grind today until tomorrow's interview or just relax?

[sleek egret]

more seriously, most companies have a baseline set of skills they want. beyond that, they want to see evidence that you can learn quickly and take on new challenges. entry level and junior hires aren't expected to be experts in a wide variety of areas.... that's why they're "entry level" or "junior"

[true harness]

wym "preparing for new grad"

[turbid dome]

my go-to is bake something and relax, but to each their own

[true harness]

why would you assume that 🤔

[sleek egret]

you should do so many interviews that doing another one is no big woop

[true harness]

no lol. why does everyone think i'm old

[sleek egret]

because you look it

[true harness]

frosh

i'm not competing with you lol

[sleek egret]

if you're male, life is a competition

probably if you're female too, but I wouldn't know for sure

[pine sleet]

Society

[near remnant]

So i should just relax. Okay I think I will grind some Linux, Docker and AWS interview questions for tonight and rest until tomorrow's interview.

[true harness]

real

[sleek egret]

I suggest lots of booze

[pine sleet]

I'd rather go on GitHub and get a new pr 😼

[near remnant]

I've been preparing daily 6-8 hours since Monday. I feel dead inside. 💀💀💀

[vapid jay]

How is that gonna help ?

[sleek egret]

booze always helps

[near remnant]

I trust in rmah

[vapid jay]

Good for you

[true harness]

i would not

[vapid jay]

Not in career discussions, it doesn't

Or here

[near remnant]

What do you think @vapid jay

[vapid jay]

We're not meant to encourage people to get drunk

I personally wouldn't do anything related to that

At this stage, i'll sit down & relax

Griding when I'm dead inside, like you say, doesn't help me

It usually works the other way around

[sleek egret]

I didn't say to get drunk

[sleek egret]

booze can help you "sit down & relax" 🙂

[vapid jay]

I'm not gonna play much on what implicit sense a phrase could carry

[near remnant]

I will just probably go through my skills that I've already been using and used for my previous job and then just relax until the interview.

Just to refresh my knowledge

[vapid jay]

should i just quit university and lear. python to get a job

[analog sun]

Probably not the wisest choice to be honest

[vapid jay]

how should i start? guides are outdated

[true harness]

probably not

[peak halo]

you said that you suggest lots of booze. I know that this channel has an older audience than say, #python-discussion, but this server as a whole isn't the place for these cynical takes.

[vapid jay]

its a business degree

[near remnant]

Dont quit

[peak halo]

if you're sure you want to be a developer, a better move would be to try to transfer to the CS program, than to drop out and self-study.

[vapid jay]

im already on 4th year just need go finish my internship

[true harness]

why would you drop out if you're in your 4th year

[peak halo]

are you in the US? because in that case, you really don't want to drop out. taking on student debt without getting the degree is the worst situation to be in for repayment.

[true harness]

even in other places. you've used almost 4 years to get nothing, essentially

[vapid jay]

i hate my internship and i dont really my course

[near remnant]

I too have a business bsc and an economics master's. Which sucks but I'm 25 with two degrees, working with python. 😆

[vapid jay]

no, university here is free in my place

[vapid jay]

you planning to career shift?

[near remnant]

I got a Python Backend Developer job after graduation from master's. Got laid off after 6 months. Now Im interviewing, learning.

[vapid jay]

what resources did u use?

[near remnant]

I made a fullstack app in flask with html, css, a bit of js, python, postgresql and used docker to deploy it to heroku. This was during last Summer. Then I basically learned from books.

Also learned a lot on the job

[vapid jay]

what books did u read? last question

[near remnant]

Python crash course, fluent python, flask book by miguel, then oop and ds&a books

[stone lagoon]

I need some advice

[vapid jay]

thx

[stone lagoon]

I am an electrical engineering student and want to switch streams and get a masters in computer science. How do I develop skills to implement projects using neural networks?

[near ocean]

Are you in your first degree?

[near remnant]

If ML is your thing, learn python, keras, tensorflow, pytorch

[slate carbon]

Hiiie

Do u guys know any internships opportunity?

[sleek egret]

thousands of companies have internship programs. most universities provide students with a means to access internships across many companies using one of a handful of sites that list them. in short, ask your university career counseling office.

it's a bit late for applying for summer internships but there are probably a few slots still available.

[true harness]

actually a lot of applications are still open, and new ones are still being posted. at least in the US. idk where sharon is, though

[sleek egret]

really? interesting. we always had everything tied up before xmas

so that's great for sharon!

[true harness]

indeed. though a lot will have been closed by now, like you said

[stone lagoon]

Yes halfway in

[stone lagoon]

Is there a roadmap that you could recommend?

[near ocean]

Whomst?

Is RAMP a defi thing? Very sus

[spark cobalt]

I am constantly reminded that there will always be acronyms I don't know

[buoyant seal]

public static void ᓚᘏᗢ — Today at 3:41 PM
no lol. why does everyone think i'm old
very easy to forget it, regarding you 😆 at first year students usually don't aim to be hired / not monitoring market what would be in demand to be known / no resume polishing / and not that socially active in programming communities. usually that happens after graduation, or at least shortly before that. many no, which you don't follow. Which is great. Knowing goal, leads you to the goal. Not knowing goal, leads to nowhere.

Kind of wondering, how many people out of my graduated group landed jobs as devs

[dreamy shadow]

<Insert cadence> reminder to freeze your account on TheWorkNumber.

[vapid jay]

This whole TheWorkNumber thing is starting to get disconcerting.

Anyone here a software dev?

[near ocean]

In a careers channel?

[dreamy shadow]

I just pulled my report. Apparently my employer reported all my pay stubs.

Includes fun facts such as: Job title, hours worked, base salary, hire date & location, per pay period (Hours worked, gross, and net)

[spark cobalt]

Smort

[true harness]

at this rate I'll be a fossil in 2 years

[true harness]

probably, why?

[graceful wagon]

Hey guys quick question. Total noob, I've been working QE for almost 4 years since my internship, but I just finally got my first developer offer. It's offering $110,000 for a entry - mid java developer. Does this seem appropriate especially considering my experience being only in QE? And could I potentially lose my offer or risk looking foolish / unfair asking for a small amount more?

[vapid jay]

HOLY

110K?

[vapid jay]

😕 Negotiating a salary and total compensation is normal business practice.

Its really how you present the negotiation though ...

[merry needle]

the fact you got this offer is motivationfuel

for me at least

[sleek egret]

what country? if US, that seems appropriate. if EU, that seems sorta high. if India, that seems crazy high.

if US and SV, that's a tad low. if texas or florida, that's quite good. if alaska or montana, that's very good.

[graceful wagon]

United States. I'm in san diego / california, but it's remote not sure where they're based

[graceful wagon]

This job involves a 4 month or so clearance, was thinking of mentioning that as leverage?

[dreamy shadow]

110k in San Diego is kinda on the low side? Is 110k TC?

[graceful wagon]

But honestly, I'm very worried to lose it cuz I've gotten almost no opportunities to switch from QE to dev. This is my big break lol. Interview was SO easy too

[sleek egret]

SD is nothing like SV

San Diego is more like Houston or Sacramento

4 month wait?

[graceful wagon]

yeah @sleek egret they need a clearance because they're contracted for IRS software work

[vapid jay]

Like Skyglow mentioned you negotiate TC not simply just the salary..

[graceful wagon]

TC standing for? Quick rundown?

[sleek egret]

I've asked for more. sometimes the employer said "OK". sometimes they said "no, can't do it". never had an offer yoinked though.

I'm ore interested in this "4 month wait" thing. what's that about?

[graceful wagon]

They have to get me a clearance that takes anywhere from 3-5 months to do

[near ocean]

Probation probably
TC is total compensation

[sleek egret]

as in security clearance?

[dreamy shadow]

TC (Total Compensation) = Salary + bonus + stock + vacation days + benefits

[graceful wagon]

Yeah

[sleek egret]

can't you just continue at your current job during those 4 months?

[graceful wagon]

Ah, it's an unlimited PTO company @vapid jay and I'm not aware of the stock benefits... let me check

[graceful wagon]

yeah I can... but every day I have to stay here and continue QE role at this specific team is pain... but I was thinking the argument is more that I can find something else where I'd start sooner (even though I doubt I could)

[sleek egret]

wait, so you would actually stop interviewing if they said "OK" to an additional $10k?

[vapid jay]

Negotiate as needed within your means if you aren't comfortable and don't forget to include severance provisions with your TC

[sleek egret]

of course you can back out

[graceful wagon]

You sure? It sounds like there are legal terms involved, otherwise they throw away money and time getting the clearance

[sleek egret]

there is no slavery nor indentured servitude in the USA. that said, contingent on what?

[dreamy shadow]

It just means if your clearance fails, you won't get an offer.

[graceful wagon]

Gotcha, I will clarify

[dreamy shadow]

You can ask to clarify, but that's generally the case. (e.g. Contingent offer w/o clearance just means your background check needs to pass)

[sleek egret]

whatcha gonna tell the FBI when they come knocking?

I dare you to yell at them, "I won't bow to The Man!"

[graceful wagon]

well I assumed it'd be more like a fee rather than jail time HAHA , but I catch your drift I'm a noob

[sleek egret]

jail time? you don't go to jail if you fail you security clearance background check

[graceful wagon]

it was a joke

[dreamy shadow]

lol Secret russian sleeper agent

[sleek egret]

oh

[vapid jay]

Personally, the range was to small for my liking... 105-120 was too small.
Long story short. If you want the job. Take it.
Depending on the area you live, you could probably leverage living income for the area.

I don't know much about the job to give any reasonable advice.
If taking the job makes you happy go for it.

[graceful wagon]

Sounds good, but doubtful that asking for anymore could have any negative impact right?

[dreamy shadow]

The range they give you is generally bullshit anyways. They'll tell you 105-120, but their actual range might be 105-150

[vapid jay]

Software engineers/devs have a wide range of salary much above what you offered.

You limited yourself by providing that small range.

[sleek egret]

numbers over $120 for entry level is VERY rare outside of SV and some fintech positions for software

[graceful wagon]

Yeah that's what I'm wondering, the description is for "mid" level dev, but given that my background is QE I'm technically not "entry" but not sure if I'm hitting that mark specifically

[sleek egret]

<shrug>

[dreamy shadow]

Depends if your QE experience is relevant.

[graceful wagon]

Anyways, thanks so much for all your time and insight.

[vapid jay]

It won't be any negative points for asking for the minor amount you mentioned to answer your first question.

Just take it as a lesson learned as you move around and get your next position

[dreamy shadow]

10/20% is generally safe

[graceful wagon]

I'll probably ask about growth potential / raise schedules given that I'm pretty confident I'll perform well as a dev

[dreamy shadow]

Nonononono, you ask up front.

[sleek egret]

just don't be disappointed if they say they can't change it. gov related jobs tend to be more restrictive in what the company can do.

[graceful wagon]

I mean, on top of that, but for sure

[dreamy shadow]

potential /raise schedules are always broken promises.

[vapid jay]

I think we need to have a 'How to negotiate' workshop here on the server once in a while. 😂

People could be skimping out on 10s of thousands of dollars. 🧐

[graceful wagon]

Drafting up an email now, luckily hiring / recruiter language makes it seem open to negotiation

[dreamy shadow]

Idk what's with my boss's boss trying to get me to come into the office for these bi-weekly team lunches. Productivity = 0% when I go to the office essentially.

[sleek egret]

it's because he cares that you don't become isolated and easily cut

best case, he's sizing you up for a promotion. worst case, he's deciding if you're cardboard enough to give the axe.

[graceful wagon]

trying to get you invested in the company culture and motivated to be more productive haha

[dreamy shadow]

Guess I"m headed to the office then. Smh

[dreamy shadow]

Probably, but I'm not really afraid of being cut. I'm 1 outta 2 people(Other being my boss) that knows a few key projects that's being used by other teams. And more like 1.8 because I get asked all the questions.

[near ocean]

Linkedin broposting

[sleek egret]

lol, are you saying your co-worker is only worth 0.8 of person?

[dreamy shadow]

No, more like I'm the only one who really knows the details behind these key projects.

Our bus factor for these projects are pretty high lol

[dreamy shadow]

Urgh, really hate to have to get up really mf early just for a 1h commute into the city.

Almost 1.5hours each way.

[graceful wagon]

That's very annoying.

Imagine driving around on a weekday morning or back during traffic hour.... man am I glad we picked the right career

[near ocean]

Cant you say no?

[dreamy shadow]

I mean, technically yes I can say no.

I tried to explain I'm in the suburbs, but this mf also is in the suburbs and basically makes the same commute.

[frosty cove]

I live in the city of my company's office and I still don't want to commute in lmao. 1 hr minimum to go like 7km, not worth it

[true harness]

walk? bike?

[frosty cove]

I think I'd end up under a car if I biked in my city haha

[near ocean]

London? Lmao

[frosty cove]

But lots of people do it, so maybe

i'm in a major canadian city. London would def be crazy

[dreamy shadow]

I had a manager that would bike to work lol

[near ocean]

This one time the bossman told us to get on boris bikes at 6am to get in the center in time to attend an event at the stock exchange
Not a chance bruv

[frosty cove]

is he one of those types that has like bike chains and does it in the winter too?

[dreamy shadow]

Ffs, I just remembered why I hated going in the office. I have to shut down my computer otherwise it will literally start a fire in the case.

[frosty cove]

sorry you gotta go @dreamy shadow :C

[dreamy shadow]

Winter. Summer. Bike for days

I'll compromise going to office once a month*.

As if catering lunch is a valid reason to go. My train ticket, parking ticket and time costs more.

[balmy mural]

I got an apartment that's a 3min walk away from our offices

[frosty cove]

Noice

I used to be 4-5 street car stops away from my old job, it was great

[balmy mural]

And then I learned my team is fully remote. I srill go to office though cause lunch is really good

[dreamy shadow]

Well, my offer letter says I'm technically 100% remote.

[stable elbow]

welp finally got an offer, but I still have interviews coming up that I kinda want. How should I mention this to them?

[true harness]

you can always ask for more time to decide

[gloomy sundial]

If I only care about money and am studying a joint degree half electronic engineering and half software engineering what side should I put more effort in?

[near ocean]

If you only care about money youre in the wrong business

[zealous path]

😞😞😞 I wish I could only care about the money… but then I wouldn’t have passed my probation

[near ocean]

If you legit only care about money you should go into tech sales instead

[dreamy shadow]

SWE Side

[gloomy sundial]

Okay

[delicate bane]

swe side def. my cousin who is ECE (electrical and computer engineering) hates his job. has to do a lot of hardware and low-level stuff. he wants to switch to swe/higher-level programming.

[delicate bane]

sales engineering/solution architect is big money. be the technical guy the sales guy brings onto the calls.

[gloomy sundial]

Aww okay

[delicate bane]

hey they make a lot in commission apparently

[near ocean]

More than enough

Are you looking for a number? There isnt one

It depends on the person's ability to close a deal and how much their commission is

Bruh what lol
Sales people bring money into a business, if youre good at it you could be making more than if you were just a dev

In pretty much all (2) places i've worked, the sales people take home the most

inb4 quants/hft make more
yawn

[delicate bane]

the bonuses

[near ocean]

My quant friend at credit suisse doesnt even know the meaning of the word

[delicate bane]

no way

[near ocean]

Lmao she was joking she should invite us all for bread sandwiches cause thats all the bonus she got

[delicate bane]

oh no

[near ocean]

I already said credit suisse and quant, do you want national insurance number too lol?

You dont have to believe me anyway, this is all anecdotal

You've never heard of one of the biggest investment banks on earth?

Arent you that guy that was obsessed with getting a quant job

[smoky quest]

America vs EU vs Asia

[near ocean]

I might have mistook you for someone else

Anyway, quant at big investment bank in EU

Definitely not shit pay relatively speaking

[true harness]

pounds dude

[near ocean]

Those are pounds

[true harness]

what's that, like 6 times average?

[near ocean]

Compared to other UK tech salaries this is yuge

This is the UK

Citadel was offering 250k£ (per another friend that interviewed)

Not in London

First of all you have to live in fucking london of all places

[true harness]

so is sigmasigma the redsomething guy that got muted a while back?

idr their name. they had "red" in it i think

[delicate bane]

think his name was ringringring but maybe

[near ocean]

😉

[delicate bane]

dont get in trouble again~

[true harness]

oh yeah, close enough with the "r"

have you toned down the uh...fanaticism?

[near ocean]

We pay £1700 for a 1bed flat in zone 2

Its terrible, dont recommend

Quants aint nothing but numbers and tricks

For places like citadel, if you gotta grind its too late

Ambition is great but self awareness and compromise is also important

[true harness]

i don't even know what that is

[near ocean]

Is ramp that shady defi thing, you didnt get back to me

[winged osprey]

Hi, sorry, I want to start to work with python as primary language, but I don't know how to apply OOP pattern design, dependency injection and or good practice like Java. Is there any good book to read about that?

[peak halo]

The best book for that is Fluent Python. and it's not about OOP design patterns, because the Python community doesn't really embrace those.

[winged osprey]

oh, it is from a Brazillian so curious and I know him

[peak halo]

You know Luciano?

[winged osprey]

not personally, he was giving talks in my college, also he was in a google community called python-brasil a long time ago so every day I saw him answering questions

[buoyant seal]

🙈

[buoyant seal]

If there would have been no OOP in python, nobody would have made beautifully crafted libraries like pathlib or argparse and etc

[peak halo]

I said OOP design patterns.

[buoyant seal]

Ergh... Design patterns are pretty much part of OOP. I don't really see what u try to make as a point

[peak halo]

I have never heard anyone talk about object pools, facades, or watchers in Python. except those who just started learning it and who have a background in Java or C++.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_design_pattern#Classification_and_list

[white relic]

they are part of OOP-as-practiced-in-Java but they are neither part of OOP-as-practiced-in-Python nor part of OOP-as-paradigm

the ambiguity in how people use the term "OOP" is so great that it is hardly worth ever arguing about whether something is or is not OOP, nobody agrees on the parameters

Fluent Python is an excellent book.

[buoyant seal]

Most of design patterns are universal across all languages including Python.
Facade design patterns simplified interface to control many objects into very small and efficient one object. It is not loosing its meaning in Python.
Same as different factory methods, or strategy pattern and many other things

Patterns are behavioural, structural, creational. All categories are needed in Python

[buoyant seal]

May be u don't see it at small code, but than bigger code amount, then more there is need to structure it

Also OOP structuring very badly works if u abuser of frameworks like Django/Django Rest Framework or Discord.py and etc. it can work even in them though. It is all following same rules as in other languages

It works badly only because you forfeited your architecture to architecture of framework. Same as in every language

[peak torrent]

What do u guys think about this course? https://drive.google.com/file/d/1S0sZKFtLeFzbPmclWDXhrRFKXcyyzNQH/view

My employer is going to pay for it, but if it is not worth it. I can change it. It has to be relate with data science to be applied in Real state

[peak torrent]

From page 5–8 it will explain the syllabus

Any advice will be appreciated!! ✌️🤓

[spark cobalt]

What's RAMP and what's CTF.

Hows quant going for you

[white relic]

Well, if you don't need to pay for it and the content is interesting to you...
No need to overthink it IMO. Are there other courses that might be more useful? Probably. But you don't know what those are and this is one you do know about

[spark cobalt]

Ic

[white relic]

Advice I would give: take diligent notes, and offer to your boss that you will give a 30 minute overview of the topic to your team when you are done with the course. Leadership loves that kind of thing and it helps them see that they aren't just spending money for nothing

Not like in depth covering the course content but just like, what is it about and why would it be interesting to people at your job

[peak torrent]

Ok thank you. Yes, It was the only course that can address their wishes. I reviewed the syllabus and I liked, but I was like unsure because I have not experience in data science.

[white relic]

I mean, it's not a course I would take, but I'm not in quant or real estate, so that doesn't mean much

[vapid jay]

Does the flipper zero contain python

[summer roost]

what does that have to do with this channel's topic?

[vapid jay]

Sorry

[brazen comet]

Anyone here ever gone through Arizona State University's online CS program? Currently trying to enroll as the location I'm at doesn't offer any in-person courses nearby

[ember chasm]

everyone

it is possible to create something advanced like Ready Player One's O.A.S.I.S?

[summer roost]

what does that have to do with this channel's topic?

[humble kelp]

I'm wanting to resign from my job. I work at Amazon and since the hiring freeze my team has almost halved in size (due to people leaving not layoffs). Even I'm considering the same. I've been given anti-depressants for stress and anxiety for the first time in my life. It's not a nice feeling especially when you do so much and teammates are ready to throw you under the bus. Good thing my manager has my side but it's hard being in my shoes rn. My relationship is getting destroyed so is my mental and physical health.

I want to leave the job but I am unsure if it'll be a safe bet in this recession .

[smoky quest]

• Don't do so much that you go into depression
• I would recommend to line up a job first prior to giving your notice
• If your health is that much at risk, then it might still be worth giving notice even if you don't have the next job ready

[keen steppe]

Take a paid vacation for a while to ease the burn out if they offer that. Then start planning forward after you have your head cooled down from stress.

[vapid jay]

FMLA and just work less, let them get rid of you, not the other way around

If I want mental health days I just work less 🙂

[keen steppe]

But if you can get a letter of reccomendation from the job, wouldn't it be easier to find a new job?

[humble kelp]

It's actually my first job as a full time employee and I only have an year worth of experience

[vapid jay]

If my team was so toxic that they were throwing me under the bus I'd quiet quit and just collect checks

[humble kelp]

I can ask but not sure if I'll be granted since my team only has 6 people with me having the most work.

[vapid jay]

Why would you broadcast your departure like that?

If I got another job I'd have it lined up prior to any indication of me leaving
Work less and failing that use FMLA

[humble kelp]

Quiet quit as in not work? I'm not sure if that's an option for me since there's not a lot of people in my team so everyone's performance is pretty evident

[vapid jay]

It sounds scummy but just reduce your work output and learn to game scrum calls

If your team is that terrible I'd wait until they start getting rid of you instead

[keen steppe]

They probably won't then

[vapid jay]

The only downside is if you ever want to get back into amazon, but your team sounds so bad it's probably a good thing if they refuse to hire you back

[humble kelp]

My manager has my side, he acknowledges all the work that i put in.

[vapid jay]

But you already committed the ultimate sin, setting high expectations

[humble kelp]

I can try for an internal transfer but right now there's hiring freeze.

[vapid jay]

internal transfer -> quiet quit -> fmla -> different job

I wish I had done this previously instead of stressing myself out and quitting like an idiot

Failing internal transfer, quiet quit, if the heat starts up go into fmla, if you still don't feel good about returning then swap jobs is the route I'd go

[humble kelp]

Do you think I'd get a job in this market? Considering my experience is just 1 year. (5 months internship included in Amazon)

[vapid jay]

At Amazon? Yeah.

I got a job like 6 months ago with an associates and no internships

[humble kelp]

Hmm I see. I'll try to follow what you said. Because this is no way to treat someone. Like giving me ungodly amount of work and if something gets messed up then throwing me under the bus

[vapid jay]

Just don't jump to an unnecessary step imo

[summer roost]

That's not really a thing in my country (USA)

[vapid jay]

Transferring, working less, fmla can all be used tactically prior to cutting off your income

I did that before I was a dev, I'd stress myself out and quit instead of just slacking off like I should have

[humble kelp]

I would definitely try to get a transfer before changing the company

[vapid jay]

If you're working at amazon and your team is toxic and you don't get a transfer, just milk it

It's like job interviews let them reject you not you reject yourself, don't lay yourself off, let amazon do it

You might realize no one actually expects you to work to the point of becoming depressed

[humble kelp]

Hmm I see. Yeah we're pretty understaffed, I'll work enough to get by. Wouldn't go out of my way to finish everything

[vapid jay]

and if they do, well you don't want to be around them anyway, so milk it
you have to mentally detach from results at your job esp if you're understaffed

[humble kelp]

Yk, i told my psychiatrist that i wasn't stressed or anxious because i was so used to considering it as something normal in my day to day life that it was a part of life. After having the meds I found changes in my mood and that's when i realized how stressed i am

[vapid jay]

If you need meds because of a job, you need to chill out

People might say you're just a loser slacker because you can't do 50 or 60 hour weeks but honestly my max is like 30ish

and I'm not going to work myself into anxiety or depression

[humble kelp]

Yeah I guess better to live life than be a corporate slave.

[vapid jay]

Obviously the downside is that they might become resentful and try to screw you over if you see them again, but not working in the same team (or even company) as them might be a blessing

[humble kelp]

True man, i don't want to work with such people ever in my life. Thanks man for the help. I'll keep everything in my mind.

No wonder so many people left after the hiring freeze from my team.

[vapid jay]

well anyway to finish this rant
attempt for internal transfer, while working less
if that fails just work less
if they start to notice and critique you start to consider fmla
during fmla consider whether you want to return or if you want to start applying, use this as a buffer
return or start new job or take a massive unpaid vacation depending on what yo uwant

My company has bad pay but at least we prioritize WLB, 80% remote, a lot of people here work maybe 30 hours a week, 40 max

[humble kelp]

There's no wlb in Amazon. I get pinged 4am midnight

[vapid jay]

Working 70 hours a week for a huge amount might be cool for maybe a year or two to gain exp but there's no point in living like that

[vapid jay]

We only go on call once or twice a year

[humble kelp]

Damn that's amazing. I get on call every 6 weeks

[vapid jay]

I was in the same situation wanting to kill myself at a shitty job, I went back to school took out some loans and then got this chill job

and I'll never work myself into stress like that again, maybe people think I'm worse than my actual capability, but I can enjoy my life

[humble kelp]

True true. Yeah I guess I should focus less on pay (which isn't as much for the work and mental torture) and focus more on myself.

[vapid jay]

The other thing is you should kind of interrogate the companies you interview with, ask them average working hours, do they prioritize wlb, is it acceptable to contact workers outside of work hours, when, why, what's the average age of the employees, do they have kids, is it acceptable to take time off for kids so on

I'd say if a company is not at least 60-80% remote they're probably going to suck for wlb

[humble kelp]

My teammates come to office just to fuck around and talk among themselves meanwhile the main work is handled by me and another senior who idk why hasn't quit. He's wayy too overworked for what he's getting paid for.

[vapid jay]

If everyone else is working less than you, you're probably just paranoid and worked yourself into unsustainable bad wlb, besides layoffs are primarily about team rather than how good you are at your job in most cases right?

Do you actually think most people who get laid off had it happen because they're bad at their job, or because they needed an excuse?

[humble kelp]

Yup but I'm honestly not worried about the layoffs if they're performance based because my manager straight up told me that if it comes to layoffs based on the performance, I'll be the last person he'll pick.

[vapid jay]

It seems to me it mostly occurs because their product is deemed as non-profitable or not promising rather than their actual competence
Trying to fight layoff luck with working until you want to die isn't going to work, and it'll just make things worse

Well yeah, and the majority of layoffs seem to be based on your group and not your actual competence at most companies not just tech