career-advice

[true harness]

backend and frontend are "domains" of web dev. frontend is what the user looks at when they go to a website. backend is what makes the frontend work, pretty much

[maiden lava]

Hmm so if i see the front end and its a mess, the backend is most likely to be trash?

[spark cobalt]

Front end is making user interfaces. Backend is literally everything that's not front end. AI/ML, database/cloud, network/OS, etc.

[true harness]

not necessarily, though they're probably correlated somewhat

[viscid portal]

most big projects have different people on the ends

[maiden lava]

So if i study programming at 15, it will be a piece of cake to pass through CS?

[spark cobalt]

No. They're generally independent from each other. The front end's job is to make a realization of the backend for some user.

[viscid portal]

they make da buttons

[smoky quest]

something will be easier, and for some others you will have to undo your previous learning.
Keep in mind that CS is a lot more than just writing some code

[true harness]

possibly

[near ocean]

No, but it will be easier than if you hadnt

[gilded valley]

It will only be a piece of cake if you go to a shit university

[maiden lava]

Ooh so back end is how good the code runs and front end is the image of that code?

[spark cobalt]

Will be a lot easier as you'd have developed a "programming mindset." At least friends I have that are in college are juggling like a new language each quarter and they're held up with syntax, etc. Rather than the core kind of ideas/mindset/etc.

[viscid portal]

yea front end user interface

[spark cobalt]

No.

[viscid portal]

not necessarily the image

[maiden lava]

Idk how to word it in english

[spark cobalt]

Backend is all the logic that's hidden from the user. Front end is basically a users way to interact with the backend without needing to know about the code etc.

[maiden lava]

Thats what i meant

[spark cobalt]

For example. For a Tesla (idk how these actually work but just saying), you don't know a single thing about how the car makes decisions in self driving, you just press a button and it'll do it. The button is the front end, the AI for self driving is the backend.

Just how you drive a car without knowing the underlying functioning of the engine, the exhaust, etc. You just press a button to start the engine and just drive.

Respectfully, backend is where all the magic happens.

Front end just makes the magic usable by the average joe.

[maiden lava]

I heard from someone's that progamming is like a car, no one teachs you on how to drive a car by showing you the mechanisms inside of it, they teach you how to make that car move, THEN you start to get curious about the mechanisms and start dicovering each one by one.
Is this análogy correct?

[true harness]

that is one school of thought for teaching programming

[maiden lava]

Oh ok, thx

[forest kestrel]

Yes but the car is on fire and you are in hell

[maiden lava]

What is the best IDE for programming? Also what that specific IDE can handle? (im using Python rn)

[smoky quest]

That is the wrong place to ask that question as it's unrelated to #career-advice . You should check out #❓｜how-to-get-help

[forest kestrel]

Depends on what you want to do

[maiden lava]

I am Tempted by automatization a.i's, i dont know if it exists but if it does i could use it for facilite the work of some small Companies

[forest kestrel]

Continue discussion in general

[gritty rivet]

If you finished high school you can get a degree from wgu.edu. I have no direct experience but I hear good things.

[viscid portal]

ill look into this

many thanks

[mortal wedge]

Try #editors-ides

[dreamy spade]

I am wondering how often RACI charts are used in tech companies?

[smoky quest]

it has become fairly popular

[dreamy spade]

Oh wow. Are you personally knowledgeable with RACI? And how has it helped you in your career?

[smoky quest]

It helps align everyone on what/who/what/how of an initiative. Thus more clarity and less confusion and better leadership

[dreamy spade]

I get confused with the C and I.

What are examples for someone who is C and I?

[buoyant seal]

https://www.forbes.com/advisor/business/raci-chart/ i like this article.
According to it, both C and I are informed
and feedback from C matters, but from I it does not matter.

[smoky quest]

basically some people you want in the loop in some form but not necessarily involved in the decision making

Also we don't really do the chart, we just put a page/doc on a wiki/confluence/gdoc/notion

[safe bane]

has anyone used the ebook from technicalinterviews.dev?

[young field]

can anyone suggest me good sources to learn about network prgramming like request,http and how front end and backend works amd programming backend?

[wintry crest]

Will companies be interested in me if I mention DSA (Python) ?

I've been using Python for quite some time now(almost 2 years) and know basic DSA and now I'm trying to upskill and learn in-depth DSA.
Nothing against Python but everywhere I see people with C/C++ & JAVA for DSA.

Will Python be correct for DSA from Career Perspective ?

[peak halo]

DSA questions are common during interviews because all CS students learn them, but employers don't actually care about them beyond that.

[buoyant seal]

What is DSA

[peak halo]

data structures and algorithms. the whiteboard questions where they ask you to invert a binary tree, etc.

[buoyant seal]

Oh.. it is still data structures and algorithms.
U a supposed to know it without mentioning specific language then
Any programming language u know, should be DSA reusable

[wintry crest]

DSA reusable ?
do you mean any language that can be used to implement DSA

[peak halo]

you can implement all the traditional data structures in algorithms in any language that supports procedural programming.

[wintry crest]

I practice DSA on LeetCode but sometimes even if solutions are correct i get TLE (time limit exceeded) is it due to the fact that Python is a bit slower than C/C++ or JAVA ?

[near ocean]

Thats because your solution is inefficient
If you only know DSA in the context of python then thats obviously a bad thing and you should work on it

(and by listing DSA(Python) on your CV you invite questions about your fundamental knowledge of algos and data structures outside of python)

[wintry crest]

Maybe yes
because I'm just solving the problem without memory and time management

[true harness]

i've never seen someone list "DSA" tbh. i'd kinda expect that to be a given

[near ocean]

If youre a college kid i think its ok to mention DSA courses, you probably wont have a lot other things to mention anyway

[wintry crest]

under the Skills section ?

[true harness]

well under any section

[true harness]

the advice i was given from hiring people that spoke at my university was that as a CS student there is an assumption that you have CS related coursework, so it's not necessary to include them. that might just be a US thing though

[near ocean]

Better than nothing imho
I included some courses i had fun with in my first couple of drafts

[wintry crest]

DSA coursework on resume ?

[near ocean]

Not specifically DSA, i didnt have fun with that one lol

[true harness]

it's not helping you stand out compared to the rest of your uni buddies though. ig it's better than empty space but like

[near ocean]

I had no work experience or internships or personal projects at that point
It was either add some courses i enjoyed and did well in or have 1/3 of a page CV

[true harness]

yeah that's fair enough

[wintry crest]

Job Description demands DSA is a thing but how do I showcase my abilities and command over DSA if I don't mention on my resume ?
Like something that can make me stand out

[near ocean]

You will be quizzed, theres no need to include on CV
Everyone asks for DSA

If you want to standout, make an algo viz project

Those always catch recruiter eyes, especially if you do some fancy path finding stuff

[wintry crest]

Algo viz project like ?
any examples ?

[near ocean]

Its pretty self-explanatory, a project that visualises algorithms, like those sorting algo vids you see on youtube

[wintry crest]

do you mean sorting algorithm visualizer that shows different sorting algorithms approach ?

[near ocean]

Theres many different types of algos that work on different data structures that you can visualise

[wintry crest]

yes yes I've seen those
Thanks for the suggestion 😊

[fair karma]

you are still in college?

[near ocean]

No

[fair karma]

cool

[peak halo]

I would list in-major elective courses, esp if they're relevant to the position to which you're applying

[true harness]

yeah i should have clarified. i meant the core required courses

[peak halo]

I agree with your overall point

[wintry crest]

Any advice on DSA learning path that I should keep in mind while learning ?
Also do help me with some resource links that you've found useful

[peak halo]

!resources algorithms and data structures

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[wintry crest]

Thanks for the help and guidance 😊 🙇‍♂️
@peak halo @buoyant seal @near ocean @true harness

[hearty island]

damnit the oracle recruiter called me but it was a position in Missouri during the school year and i live in NY

😢 😭 followed up by a rejection from a business analyst intern position at carmax bc i failed my case study, but i kinda expected that

[delicate bane]

the one with the analytical questions?

[hearty island]

yea

[delicate bane]

theres always next time

[hearty island]

big oof to wake up to this morning ngl

[delicate bane]

at least now you are familiar with them

[hearty island]

i’m worried about my uhg interview i don’t know if i made it to the second round i mean i made it last time but god knows

[true harness]

yeah i mean, people apply to hundreds of jobs. rejection is just part of it lol

[hearty island]

yeah so far i’ve only heard back from like 5 companies out of a total of 150-200 apps

at least i have an internship now even if i don’t quite enjoy it… and has nothing to do with analytics

[vapid jay]

i had like 5 / 150 last time

[young field]

Any suggestion.

[near ocean]

Thats not a careers related question, try #python-discussion or #networks

[young field]

Okk

[dreamy shadow]

Had an interview today where I walked through the take home portion. So instead of 1 person sharing a no camera teams meeting, this time it was 3 people with no cameras. Except, original meeting only indicated 2 people. Fun stuff.

[delicate bane]

no camera is always awkward at first but only if you make it awkward.

first time when i talked to a vendor (last week), they both didnt have their cameras on initially, and i asked if they wanted me to turn mine on. they said no since it was friday and talked about zoom fatigue and i completely agreed lol and we moved on from there.

still a good convo in the end.

[hearty island]

hmmmmmmm 🔍

i applied to several positions to give me a better chance, so we’ll see

[near ocean]

I think its only polite, for an interviewer to have their camera on even if the applicant doesnt
Even if its just one of the interviewers

In the couple of interviews i've sat in on, anyone speaking would have their camera on, other devs just listening in could sit quietly without video

[delicate bane]

how do you feel when applicants dont have their camera on vs. those that do. its also kinda awkward tbh

especially when everyone else has theirs on...

[hearty island]

during my oracle interview my recruiter initially had hers turned off till i turned mine on

[near ocean]

Yea at the very minimum one person from each party has to have camera on and since applicants are usually by themselves...
If you dont have a camera i guess thats different but shying away from showing your face is not a good look

[delicate bane]

yeah we were interviewing for interns and it was not a good look indeed...lol

it didnt automatically disqualify them but still

unless you have a good reason, you are still competing against others at the end of the day

[buoyant seal]

Having camera on allows company to recognise if person they interviewed is same one that came onboarding xD

So... Camera on is a must have. Preferably from both sides, since it is awkward when only interviewed person is with camera

[digital fjord]

ehhh, that feels like a weird argument, plenty of people look similar enough, if someone wants to run that scam a camera isn't going to stop them

[frail gale]

Hey

Are certificates important for finding a job?

[near ocean]

Its more about being personable, put together, polite, etc
People arent usually in the business of swapping out doppelgangers to pass an interview

[frail gale]

In IT of course

[near ocean]

Only certificate that matters is the degree

[frail gale]

Oh, I see
Thank you

[buoyant seal]

Sometimes. Only specific recognizable certs from very big companies.
Like AWS cert of smth
Or Kubernetes Administrator cert (issued by owners of Kubernetes)

They matter for web development operations related jobs

[delicate bane]

[frail gale]

Thank you so much!

[summer roost]

I think both parties on camera is best, but if either doesn't want to be on camera (whether interviewer or interviewee) I'd prefer no one on camera rather than one party on camera.

[delicate bane]

yeah

[wanton oasis]

is avaiable "buyer requests" tab on fiverr now?

[lunar prism]

Hello, I've been a cyber security specialist for 12 years now. Recently my wife fell ill and I'm looking at getting a part-time job as an entry level developer. I've been taught C+, C, and Python in a formal setting (bootcamp and school), but it's been a while. I'm about halfway through my re-familiarization and feel fairly confident; except that I don't have practical experience outside reading code for code analysis in a DevSecOps environment.

TLDR, how can I quickly build a portfolio so that I have something to point to when I start applying

[vapid jay]

!projects

[inner wren]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page on Ned Batchelder's website contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[lunar prism]

Thank you

[torpid saddle]

Just wait, it won't be long until interviews are banned due to possibility of discrimination. At least that's what HR told my team because we are too skewed in the male/female ratio

[vapid jay]

What would be the easiest field to enter? software development or data analysis?

[stoic timber]

It depends on many things, like what you're good at and what experience (study/work) you have

[vapid jay]

assuming no experience, fresh learner?

[stoic timber]

but what are you good at in general ? Math, economy, problem-solving, communication, something else ?

[vapid jay]

math, problem-solving etc.

[stoic timber]

data analysis, there are usually more beginner positions available

[vapid jay]

decade's experience as a civil engineer, entry level python, taking Harvard CS50x now to improve my understanding of DSA etc. no professional experience with python, have coded simple stuff like snake/pong with OOP.

Have an in-house digital services team that has a software development team and a data analysis team. They've said they'd be interested in taking on another coder so I see that as my easiest entry into the industry as a self-taught programmer, but trying to decide which area would make the transition fastest because I really want to get my foot into the door and start the new career ASAP

I think long term I'll transition to back-end development, but not sure as I haven't had the opportunity to experience the other fields yet

[stoic timber]

Data Engineer could also be interesting for you then in the future

[vapid jay]

awesome, thank you

[stoic timber]

you're welcome

[mortal wedge]

Ah inhouse digital services team, that's a great in and will help you completely bypass a lot of the BS in the job market

[vapid jay]

Friends, how should I approach learning programming and software? I am intending on focusing more back end. But, even then, it is still a wide field. How could I narrow down what to do “next” so that it is not overwhelming?

[smoky quest]

It depends from where you start.
For the purpose of a career, a CS degree is the path of least resistance with the most opportunities.

So if you are in HS or college age, the aim for a CS degree and in the mean time, have fun and learn things!
You can also look at https://roadmap.sh/ for a list of skills for specific roles.

[vapid jay]

I graduate HS in around 6 months. Yeah, I am going to be enrolling in WGU for their bachelors program (it is both affordable and flexible to my needs)

[smoky quest]

Then you could pick up https://automatetheboringstuff.com/ as a free resource to learn python in the mean time.

[vapid jay]

thanks

[vapid jay]

I am actually taking a python course from a different university (sort of a running start program, but not exactly) so that I have credits to transfer

[smoky quest]

that's great too!

[limpid dune]

how to move pyautogui to any direction from output location

[smoky quest]

Hi!
This is the wrong channel. You may want to check out #❓｜how-to-get-help

[limpid dune]

i dont recive help there

[smoky quest]

spamming other channels won't make it any better

[mortal wedge]

To be honest, cybersec is the one field where I wouldn't expect someone to have previous projects to point to, as I'm assuming they've worked as defense contractors or have their work under NDAs. In that case, it's their employment history I would check and be impressed by.

[lunar prism]

I'm used to reading code (c++, python, some Javascript) from a DecSecOps perspective. Essentially diving into the results of the SAST and DAST scans and recommending fixes to the dev teams. I just don't have a "portfolio" to point to. Think of should just apply to an entry position and see what happens?

[mortal wedge]

Yes, definitely think you should apply.

[smoky quest]

SRE may also be a worthy entry point for you.
It won't be as difficult from a code perspective and still something where you could leverage your current skills

[grim grotto]

i think books are 100% the best way to learn a programming language

[trim agate]

How do you run wait in python?

[light plank]

What do you mean? Are you looking for os.sleep()? Or something else?
But also, not a career question?

[vapid jay]

more so than a CS degree or actually programming?

[vapid jay]

import time
time.sleep(num_of_seconds)

but this is for career discussion, probably best to ask in #python-discussion next time, you'll get answered faster too

[cursive pelican]

he probably doesn't mean it that way

more like books are a good resource but you can't read and not code

[light sundial]

hey all im wanting to learn python really bad but i dont want to put up money for classes as my job is quite taxing. Anyone have any good free resources?

[haughty thistle]

Checkout tech with Tim on yt

[light sundial]

thanks

[vapid jay]

I know you said you don't want to pay but there's a course on Udemy that's only like $15 and I honestly can't recommend it enough

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[vapid jay]

https://www.udemy.com/course/100-days-of-code/

[vapid jay]

Do whatever interests you. I hated programming until I took a course with an instructor who transformed my interest in analytic philosophy into an interest in programming language theory. Her expertise was very broad but she was able to translate my interest in topics like intuitionistic logic to programming languages like Haskell and Prolog.

My entry point into programming was logic, and specifically the application of logic to program verification. I found it fascinating. It took that fascination to engender an obsession and a kind of expertise. The knowledge I acquired and the skills I learned along the way are valuable for my current job, even if they don't translate exactly.

[light sundial]

Thanks i can manage 15 or so !

[slim stream]

imo, just do a project that you are really intrested in

[dreamy shadow]

Well, today I learned there are multiple AI resume writers, and still, there is companies that want to build out their own.

[safe bane]

Can you share the details of the course if it is available online?

[cinder rivet]

Can any one tell me why Game Development is hard? What other careers is better?

[smoky quest]

There are tons of applicants for the number of jobs.
That means people are treated badly and with low pay comparing to other areas

[cinder rivet]

best areas you know mate? and it's possible to be Indepent in Game Dev area?

[smoky quest]

backend, ml/ai, etc.

You can be independent, but that's also a lot more things to account for and the pay and treatment are still bad

[cinder rivet]

Hmmm, well for now I just want to make a mini game in discord. That I can take something out to survive while I finish my career as a Economist BBA. I'm focusing in the Data Analysis area.

What do you think about that?

[smoky quest]

Sure! Lot's of people still do game for fun outside of work

[cinder rivet]

What do you think about Data Analyst?

[smoky quest]

it's a good job too

[cinder rivet]

better then game dev?

[smoky quest]

definitely

[cinder rivet]

lol, thanks mate! I thought game dev made good amount of money tbh.

[hushed viper]

Game Dev sounds like a fun job tho

I just researched into it I take that statement back

[crimson marsh]

Yo I'm currently studying software development and I was wondering what would be a good job in terms of pay

[raw sable]

I bought this thing is that really good?

[white relic]

Software in general pays pretty good, but there are some industries that pay more than others, and it also depends on your location

[dense mesa]

If you're studying economics, data analyst could be a pretty good career path. Would be easier to get into than game development, likely to have a way better work life balance

[vapid jay]

Hey everyone, I am a junior data analyst seeking new job opportunities.

I have sent my resumes to many companies, but no luck

Do you have any advice ? I am based in Europe.

I am sure many of you have been in the same situation. Any help would be greatly appreciated]

[white relic]

What is your level of education?

[vapid jay]

bachelors

[white relic]

In?

[vapid jay]

no i graduated

[white relic]

Bachelor's in what

[near ocean]

You could send your cv here for some tips
Make sure to black out identifying information

[vapid jay]

Bachelor's in Management Science and TechnologyMajor in Operations Research and Business Analytics

alright let me send it

[white relic]

Getting almost any job is largely a numbers game. How long have you been looking for?

[vapid jay]

since early september

so about 3 months

[near ocean]

Oooh pretty

It might struggle with automated cv screening systems though, columns are not ideal

[vapid jay]

thanks, oh i dont know what automated screening is

I also have a link to my portfolio. let me send some screen shots

[vivid sand]

Hello guys,
I am a self taught programmer working as a junior developer . I noticed that the company i work for could really benefit from AI programs (i.e. recognising visual objects). So my question is, where can i start learning AI (presumably reaching deep learning eventually).
Doesnt matter if resources are free or not.

Thanks in advance!

[white relic]

Two and a half months would be a pretty quick turn around on finding a new job in most fields. Maybe you just need to stick at it a while longer. I don't really know anything about the business side of things

[vapid jay]

oh okay

[near ocean]

Cant you go back to the company you were before your military service?

[vapid jay]

well my friends found jobs way faster. They are in Business analytics and/or software development

[vapid jay]

not really, its more marketing

portfolio

so yeah thats me., i will not show my other projects as they will take too many screenshots.

[buoyant seal]

Pictures/screenshots 🤮 share link

[near ocean]

Are you hearing back from companies? Getting calls back? Or complete silence

[white relic]

Check first if your company has a partnership with any online learning platforms such as LinkedIn learning or udemy

[vivid sand]

None unfortunately.

[vapid jay]

I have only heard back from companies in my country..

most are complete silence though, Trentj i dont understand

[near ocean]

You should probably apply to international companies as well
Also consider making a plainer looking CV, the one you have right now is fine if a person is lookin at it, but usually it goes through a machine first

[buoyant seal]

That is normal for entry positions (to get responses from local ones usually). There is no legal difficulties in hiring local. Requirement bar is way higher for international way

[vapid jay]

oh okay

dont recruiters just open the pdf and view it ?

[buoyant seal]

Machine scans out of them text first

Automated tools

[vapid jay]

so what would be an approriate cv for this reason

[buoyant seal]

https://www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammerHumor/comments/qjc9lb/fake_resume_with_tech_buzzwords_gets_90_success/

As a joke showing real situation

[near ocean]

I would recommend following Jake's resume template
https://www.overleaf.com/latex/templates/jakes-resume/syzfjbzwjncs
This is pretty standard for a tech cv in terms of layout

[buoyant seal]

i think the most cool way to have resume is building in LateX PDF document in text searchable way
https://www.overleaf.com/latex/templates/jakes-resume/syzfjbzwjncs

[near ocean]

Maybe a mod should pin this cv link

One thing i would change though is move education further down

[white relic]

Mine is in the exact opposite order
skills, experience, education

admittedly education is less relevant when you have more significant work experience

[near ocean]

I had it that way too, worked fine i think
But recently changed to experience, education, projects, skills

[vapid jay]

alright

education on my cv is the last thing a recruiter sees

so in essence, colors and/or how pretty a cv looks dont matter at all ?

[near ocean]

It matters if youre directly showing it to a person, recruiter/hiring manager
Keep both versions updated

[vapid jay]

ok

[near ocean]

matters more*

[white relic]

for getting the first callback, it probably doesn't matter as much

when I was applying to jobs most of them would make you enter your experience into HTML text boxes anyway

[vapid jay]

i mostly use linked in or workable

but i will deff make a latex version

see maybe if that works out ... Thanks a lot guys 🙂

[sullen onyx]

i'm currently pursuing a Bachelor's in Computer Engineering
should I prefer Masters in Engineering or Masters in Computer Science ?

[cinder rivet]

Where you from? What part of Europe?

[elder forge]

what are your priorities, higher pay?, easier job market?, more interesting? (under what criteria?)
Or are you asking what the practical difference will be?

[sullen onyx]

what are your priorities, higher pay?, easier job market?, more interesting?
YES

im contemplating a lot on this atm so im still a bit unsure abt the specifics

but basically I wish to pursue a master's degree in my field ( Computers )
and looking at some programs for MSC - they always have one option thesis which tbh i dont wish to do since it'd be way difficult to do

my long term plans is just having a high pay job in Canada with a reputed degree to back it (Masters`)
whereas programs for MEng (afaik) - have a lot of compulsory coursework, but would offer similar job opportunities for me

[hearty island]

11 more days till the oracle decision 🤔

[elder forge]

If you don't want to do a thesis, it sounds like you already know which one is better for you, no?

[lime bay]

I finished a technical interview yesterday. I was told I would be contacted that day. Still no contact. Should I contact the HR?

[white relic]

Unless you have the master's paid for already, my recommendation would be to get a job when you graduate from your bachelor's program and get your employer to pay for it

Most big companies will have a reimbursement program of some kind and even small ones may be willing to work with you.

[oak cosmos]

If you were told you'd be contacted the day of and there was no correspondence then absolutely, yes, reach out to them

[vapid jay]

does anyone care what your github pfp is?

[true harness]

as long as it isn't bad

[storm sky]

hello

pip plz

[dense mesa]

Do you mean recruiters? Considering this is #career-advice

[vapid jay]

just anyone generally... its kinda weird because i see really high level people with both serious shots then ppl with cartoons

well not anyone company people

[dense mesa]

@vapid jay "company people" being people who work for a company?

I don't understand the question, it depends on how you want to represent yourself to others online, and what you want them to see you as

[mortal wedge]

If I saw something offensive or obscene on a GitHub pfp I would consider it a red flag

Because it’s so easy to NOT do that

[spark cobalt]

Just stick to the default. It's super cute anyways

[forest spindle]

is anyone here a Canadian who emigrated to the US for work? I have some questions
mostly; how was it? what did the process look like for you? any legal issues? what was you quality of life in the US compared to canada?
most interested in outside the bay area like NC or wisconsin or Minnesota or something

[peak halo]

If I were Canadian (and I'm American), I wouldn't want to move to the US for at least two more presidential election cycles.

I imagine there are tech companies in Charlotte, NC, though that's pretty far inland for NC (in case you wanted to be costal). I can't think of any companies based in Wisconsin or Minnesota.

[mortal wedge]

Good friend of mine is in this situation. Moved to Southern California. Increased pay and quality of life. Is considering moving back because our politics is getting a bit too crazy for him.

[peak halo]

where did they go from Canada that the US represented an increased QoL?

[mortal wedge]

Quebec. They complain about the food here a lot but like the increased money and the lifestyle it brings. He has lots of shiny new technological things.

His main piece of advice is to get a job with good health insurance

[near ocean]

How do US politics affect the average software dev? I feel like i've asked this before but didnt quite get a satisfying answer, it always seems to be hurr durr republicans/democrats in power possibly doing bad things

Im in the UK right now but if i wanted to move to the US what would I watch out for

[smoky quest]

they don't affect in any way

[mortal wedge]

I probably shouldn’t answer this as it’s likely to be controversial, but the least controversial thing to be aware of is the lack of healthcare and the reminder that other country’s political situations may be different than what you’re used to.

[near ocean]

Healthcare is my primary concern as well being diabetic but thats not something that changes with political cycles, is it?

[mortal wedge]

Insulin prices can rise and fall over the course of political cycles. Also a reminder to look at individual state governments/policies as they can be drastically different depending on state.

[smoky quest]

Note also that the USA is a whole continent. So Comparing two different cities will be like generalizing London and some other part of Romania

What someone will experience in the USA will be completely different depending on where they are located.

[proven valve]

Continent..

Hopefully you mean in size

[mortal wedge]

I'm sure they meant country 🙂

[past crystal]

Is this using by Notion API

[smoky quest]

I meant it as an analogy for a non-continental EU person to understand

[proven valve]

Well, I got a question:
How would I apply for a software engineering job?
I dont know where to look up for the jobs, nor what to do

[summer roost]

The distance from NYC to Los Angeles, for instance, is about 4000 kilometers. The US is very, very big.

[summer roost]

LinkedIn, Indeed, Monster, etc - there are many sites that are full of job ads.

[mortal wedge]

as @summer roost mentioned, one of the most common ways is to look at job boards. You can also look at a specific company's openings if there's a company that really interests you. Outside of that, you can create/find a network of people and get leads that way.

Typically when you apply you're either sending your information to the company directly through their site, or you're sending your information to a recruiter who will pass along certain applicants to the company, in exchange for bonus if you get signed on.

[proven valve]

Where would I look up for these companies?

[mortal wedge]

Great question! Typically it's as simple as using a search engine to find companies. I'm in the life sciences for instance and I live in X, so I might search "top life science companies in X" and then look at those companies.

[smoky quest]

Are you ready to apply?

• Do you have a compelling resume?
• Are you prepared for interviews?
• Have you specified a list of criteria to look for in a company?

[mortal wedge]

But also it's more of like, let's say you notice that a lot of jobs you're interested in are coming from company X, at that point it may be best to just go to that company's page and search directly. Some people have their heart set on a specific company for the benefits you get. For example, a lot of people like to work at sony because you get massive discounts on all sony products for your friends and family.

[proven valve]

I am not really sure either

Really just want to know this before so when I finally am confident enough I got enough skill and experience I can apply

[smoky quest]

What's your current situation?
If you are in high school or college, I would recommend to aim for a CS degree as it's the path of least resistance with the most opportunities

[proven valve]

Im in highschool however im already signed to a software engineering uni

[smoky quest]

great!
So I would recommend:

• Make sure you maintain the grades to get in the university of your choice
• Build things and have fun! Make backends, games, robots, websites or even 3d movies with blender. It will help deepen your knowledge while building a culture of what CS involves

[proven valve]

The current wage range they sent us was $1800 - $2500 (for the company we can work at as soon as we finish the degree)

[proven valve]

I already got accepted into it tho

[smoky quest]

congrats!

[proven valve]

Thx

[proven valve]

Any specific stuff you would recommend me doing?

I think game dev is uhhhh way too complicated for me rn

[smoky quest]

anything you find fun. The nature doesn't matter as long as it helps you persist in it

[proven valve]

I thought of doing a website but it is sort of weird

Like, how sometimes a specific property doesnt work for a type of element but works for others so it is confusing

[smoky quest]

that's part of the learning

[proven valve]

So I end up just looking at a lot of tutorials which I think isnt good

[smoky quest]

Yeah, it's best to try to make something after learning about it

[proven valve]

Any site or video you'd recommend me seeing/watching for it then?

[smoky quest]

depends on the topic. You could look at the resources linked in the various channels of this server

[proven valve]

Oh yeah I forgot about these

Thanks

[summer roost]

Off the top of my head:

• US politics is probably much more vitriolic than you're used to, which may easily take a toll on mental health. This is compounded by access to mental health resources being fairly low, and stigma around mental health diagnoses still being fairly high. Further, health insurance is usually tied to employment, so a major illness that limits your ability to work may also cost you the health care you need to treat that illness.
• Hate crimes motivated by ethnicity, religion, and sexual identity are becoming increasingly common.
• Access to reproductive health care is under attack in many parts of the country - people in some places are seriously debating whether contraceptives should be legal.
• If and when you have kids, access to quality education becomes a big concern. Literal book burnings are in the news lately.

Granted wealth makes many of these problems much more manageable, and software developers tend to be very well compensated.

[maiden lava]

i'm learning programming , but i dont know what kind of developer i want to become (back-end, front-end, fullstack)
when should i start thinking about what i am gonna do? im currently learning python functions and programming logic.

[mortal wedge]

Start thinking whenever you'd like! Talk to other people about their jobs and ask what they like/don't like. In the mean time, keep learning the basics. Over time with your experience and other people's stories you should start to form an opinion of where you'd like to go, yourself.

[summer roost]

after the basics, you'll start coding things that interest you. And you'll figure out which of those you enjoy, and which you don't. And then you'll know where to focus further attention.

[hazy maple]

Is the ability to make your own custom library a good skill employers might look for?

[smoky quest]

it's part of the basic skills

[hazy maple]

And the other basic skills are?

[smoky quest]

https://roadmap.sh/ has a good list

[hazy maple]

Is there a clear number of skills a programmer should have?

[smoky quest]

To save time, what are your current situation, education level and goal(s)?

[hazy maple]

I'm a college student who's studying computer science and is about to graduate with a bachelor's degree in a few weeks. I'm currently writing some python scripts, and I am curious about computer vision.

[smoky quest]

the basic skills expected for an entry level engineer would be those of a student graduating form a BSc.
So you are in luck 😉

[hazy maple]

And I'll get started with following the blue and yellow brick roadmap. Thanks 👍

[rapid delta]

Hello Im calling for Mr Stepbro Hello for the interview

[near ocean]

This isn't a place to joke or shitpost, please stop

[vague bridge]

👍

[rapid delta]

K buzzkill

[sick trail]

where should i start learning python

[vapid jay]

guys

i need help. i have to create an code that calculates how many waffles you can make if you can make 16 with these ingredients. anyone wanna volunteer and save me?

[peak halo]

this is the career discussion channel. see #❓｜how-to-get-help. and remember that our rule is that we help people learn how to do their homework without doing it for them.

[minor timber]

Hey, I had a question in the past about advice on achieving in a career in coding after having to switch from CS major to Cybersec on grounds of my bad calculus. Someone said, a good portfolio would be a great start. They then said some people could look over a project and give some feedback. Is there a section of the discord where I can have this done? Or should I wait for ppl to see this comment? Thanks in advance.

[buoyant seal]

drop somewhere portfolio, feel free even here. or if project is related to some specific channel then to it perhaps.
we will attempt to do some sort of evaluation
#software-architecture is kind of universal for code review technically, since code architecture/project evaluation is kind of all in software design. Probably better dropping there then

[spark cobalt]

How you explain your project on a resume is likely more important. No one's going to realistically look at dozens or even hundreds of candidates code.

[minor timber]

That's a good point

[minor timber]

Okay awesome. I think I'm looking more for, is this code structured and commented enough? I had to switch majors before I got to the meat and potatoes of CS. I have been self teaching tho.

[buoyant seal]

Code Complete by McConnel -> Head First Design Patterns -> Clean Architecture by Robert Martin
feel free to read those books in this order, in order to find if code is commented enough / good structured.

[minor timber]

Okay bless, just found the first one online.

Here is the project I was going to use as a my main side project for a resume.
If anyone has any time and can look at this code for potential comments/improvements I'd love you. 🙂
https://github.com/pattty847/Trade-Suite
Code starts in src/main.py

[buoyant seal]

is python not your first language? anyway, i am triggered by Pascal named filenames/modules, which trigger my IDE to see those those imports as Class names

[minor timber]

I came from java but this was when I was like 15-16 and making hacked minecraft clients, skidding around etc. I can def change those. They should be all be lower cased?

[buoyant seal]

filenames should be all lower cased in snake case.
abc_qwe.py is valid
fgdgf.py is valid too

[minor timber]

File names fixed, but little weird why github commit hasn't shown the updates.

[buoyant seal]

nice of you to write docstrings
package relative/absolute addresses can be a bit restructurized from my point of view
https://github.com/pattty847/Trade-Suite/tree/master/testing files also folders with space and files with space aren't allowed

[minor timber]

I actually have that folder in my gitignore, but clearly I've added it wrong

[buoyant seal]

lets add here that instead of testing files, i would have prefered seeing folder with Unittest or preferably Pytest tests
lets move to #software-architecture

[graceful mason]

This isn't really a #career-advice discussion, maybe move to PMs/another channel?

[minor timber]

true

[desert atlas]

Hello

[vapid jay]

Hello

[silk plinth]

hi guys

how you doing

[peak halo]

@desert atlas @vapid jay @silk plinth this is the career discussion, so make sure that all your messages are about careers or responding to one that is.

[silk plinth]

i was here to join discussion but no one replied

[peak halo]

You asked how people are doing. You have to say something about careers.

[silk plinth]

got it

[mortal wedge]

Do you think that the tech market is predicting a recession, with the recent hiring freezes and layoffs? What does that say about the job market and what should we do if we’re seeking a new job?

[lunar prism]

I wrote my own version of pong! Can I haz software engineer job now? 🙂

[buoyant seal]

some companies are falling, some are raising.
I think shortage of skilled people is way greater than this recession has to offer.

[mortal wedge]

That would be great on a portfolio if you're applying to game dev!

[lunar prism]

I'm just trying to get variety right now. This is my third project. My first was an excel spreadsheet compiler thingy using Panda that allows me to parse through excel documents, aggregate data, and perform different functions; my second is a website scrapper, very similar but for information on the web; and now this. I just want to show that I'm not a one trick pony lol

[mortal wedge]

Fair enough. Do you have a website that all of this is on? If not, I encourage you to.

[lunar prism]

I made a github account the other day, I was just going to copy the code there

[mortal wedge]

That works as well. I'm just thinking that a website is another project and is more accessible to the uninitiated than a github page.

[near ocean]

A portfolio project is a relatively easy one to setup and shows familiarity with web technologies
Another nice web related project would be a blog, but that one kinda requires that you actually write blog posts

[true harness]

i found a internship application that says something along the lines of "must have active security clearance". it's targeted towards college students. i'm wondering for how long after you hold a clearance is that clearance removed?
https://www.state.gov/security-clearances says

The security clearance must be administratively removed when the employee no longer has need for access.
which seems to imply right away, but
https://news.clearancejobs.com/2017/07/05/security-clearance-get-fired/ says
Your clearance remains current and you have two years to find yourself another cleared position

i would lean towards trusting state.gov, but that would mean these job apps (according to ultimatechaos they're somewhat common) are just stealing people from other federal agencies/contractors? basically, i'm asking how clearances work when switching jobs. oh also, US question

[white relic]

There is a difference between "current" and "active". You cease to have an active clearance when you stop working at a position where you need it. But the investigation required to get a security clearance is still current and you can get it reactivated without a new investigation for two years.

"Active security clearance required" basically usually means you are cleared and can activate it without the long investigation

[true harness]

Must have an active and transferrable DoD security clearance with current investigation at the required level. Must be able to maintain the required clearance
so this means i must be working with a clearance and the investigation was less than 2 years ago?

[white relic]

Oh thats a little more specific phrasing than I thought.

[near ocean]

The state gov site says that clearance lasts 5 years if you stay in a dept of state position that needs it

[winged goblet]

@pine sleet you closed my ticket you lil-

[smoky quest]

that seems weird for an internship. I would ignore it and apply it if interested

[true harness]

yeah i did apply, just looking for info in case i might need it

[smoky quest]

that's something companies would sponsor too. So I would not expect you to pay anything out of pocket

[near ocean]

The company is supposed to apply for your clearance anyway, you dont get to apply as an individual

[white relic]

It is definitely possible, even likely that the person making the post copied and pasted the standard blurb and didn't take the specific opening into account.

[true harness]

according to the post, i would be working with missile trajectory things, so i assume i would need a clearance for that

[white relic]

There are internships that require you to be cleared already, but it's unusual

[near ocean]

That Lockheed Martin deal too sweet huh?

[white relic]

That might be one of them though

the problem with uncleared interns is that the internship will probably be over by the time the clearance investigation is done

most internships at the contractor I worked for were for unclassified work

[true harness]

huh, it's that long? ig it kinda makes sense. i saw on the state.gov site you can get "interim determination" which lets you work before the investigation is done. is that common for not-internships? if you're currently not working do you just need to wait for the investigation to complete?

[white relic]

it's pretty common, but the company still has to foot the bill for the investigation, which doesn't make a lot of sense for an intern that might not come back

[near ocean]

Arent these internships really competitive? They sound like they are

[white relic]

Also common is to get put on some busywork project (big contractors have tons of busywork) while waiting for the real clearance to come through

The investigation usually takes at least two months. Twice as long if you have any foreign contacts or have been to any "unfriendly" countries

[smoky quest]

you would also be mindful to get the process started well ahead of your expected starting date

[white relic]

can take over a year if you are at all "complicated".

[true harness]

that's unfortunate 😔. i'm chinese and have visited family there in the last few years.

you would also be mindful to get the process started well ahead of your expected starting date
i read they would only start the process after an offer is offered. ig if it takes longer than expected you would just do busywork? 😔

[white relic]

I don't work in defense anymore but it is worth pointing out that once you have it, a security clearance opens doors nothing else can. As long as you have it, your employment rate is essentially zero

[smoky quest]

fyi, we are making offers now for internship happening next summer.
Apparently, lots of companies/students want to have their internship settled by thanksgiving. That would give ample time for such process

[weak halo]

Bro I ain't even in internship I'm gonna do mocks

[white relic]

Yeah, yours would be long.

[weak halo]

That's crazy

[true harness]

what's mocks?

[weak halo]

The thing we do in england where you take a test a year before GCSE

Dunno if there are mocks in other countries

[hearty island]

10 more days till my oracle decision, anticipating rejection

[lapis wind]

Most countries have mock examinations of some sort

[weak halo]

Ah okay

[weak halo]

What's that ?

I joined this discord so I could learn python and that cuz I am in a robotics competition and it requires python but I don't really know what to do

[hearty island]

oracle? a company

[lapis wind]

What competition?

[white relic]

If the internship really does require a current investigation, you won't be considered for it without one. If it requires the company to sponsor your clearance, you probably won't be working on anything classified during the actual internship (but it would be an excellent opportunity for a next year's internship or full time position at the same company). If the internship doesn't actually need a clearance you would probably be doing the same kind of unclassified work.

Even unclassified work at a defense contractor can be pretty darn cool. Or horribly boring. I've been in both scenarios

[lapis wind]

Depends if it's heavy in micro controllers and stuff

[white relic]

As a (presumably undergraduate) intern, you probably wouldn't get the really boring stuff. They want interns to come back

[icy axle]

what's the best book to start with Python

[buoyant seal]

Clarify your educational background

[coral mica]

Does HR see the python institute certifications as a qualification to get to the interview process? PCEP PCAP PCPP PCAT

[smoky quest]

nope

If you are in high school or college age, I would recommend to go for a CS degree in college. That's the path of least resistance with the most opportunity

[ocean stream]

hey! I'm a soon to graduate high school senior and I love physics and computer science, I'm curious if it's plausible to major in both and if it's a good idea
my hopes of a career would be something related to AI combined with the field of physics such as using AI to clean telescope data or smthn like that

[twin frost]

hey all! aspiring python dev here. Currently going through angela yu 100 days of code.

[delicate bane]

do you listen to podcasts? the changelog guys interviewed @gritty rivet's The Pragmatic Engineer: https://open.spotify.com/episode/5EPbm9QJ1RkzEG9lEvJl82

some points covered:

• 2021's hiring market vs. 2022's "correction"
• advice for engineers in current market
• 6 month outlook
• "stability is the new sexy"
• the power of your network
• how pragmatic engineer began

[mortal wedge]

I don't, but I will listen for insight into the current market. Thank you

[delicate bane]

no probs, thought it was super insightful even tho im not looking atm. let me know your thoughts afterwards if you end up listening

[worthy atlas]

I hope you get the job!

[split bear]

Hm

[worthy atlas]

@hearty island How did the interview go?

My close friends sister's husband is some big shot at Oracle.

My sister works for some company I think GitLab...Not GitHub. But any way...My sister has a masters degree in something and she still had to put out 70 applications before she got her first job.

I've been getting a lot of good responses from people who hire people when I ask this question I heard in a YT vid and it goes likes this:

To your employer at end of interview say: "If you hired me today, a year from now, what would be the indicator that you mde the right decision?

Gets em every time.

[white relic]

Plausible, certainly. A good idea? IMO probably yes. The main downside is a lot of coursework. The upside is you're better equipped to go into more interesting kinds of stuff. If you can graduate in reasonable time ofc.

It obviously doesn't mean you're guaranteed a super cool job immediately

[summer roost]

It may be possible to get a major in one and a minor in the other without costing you any extra time spent at university. Dual majors usually take an extra year, even taking a heavy credit load.

[white relic]

and it doesn't really have any effect on salary or anything past graduation unless you go on to grad school

[hearty island]

it was only a first round interview but i think it went well

[ocean stream]

how much school work would you predict?

[white relic]

It really depends on your institution.

[ocean stream]

could you make a prediction on a mediocre school and a school like harvard?

[orchid crown]

Hi everyone

I am from India and here job competition is too much even any field students are joining as python developer😆

Everyone in this group are students or doing job in some it companies

[summer roost]

as a guess: 25% to 50% more work every semester than your classmates with a single major

[ocean stream]

thats not bad, that sounds like it doesnt warrent an extra year right?

[summer roost]

if you were doing 50% more work than your classmates, you might be able to finish 2 majors in 4 years. If you're doing 25% more, there's no chance you could do it in 4 years.

[ocean stream]

you mean the other way around right?

[summer roost]

no

[ocean stream]

so if i have 50% more work, I'm more likely to be able to finish college in less time

but if i only have 25% more work, i will finish college later than 4 years

how does that work? more work means more time spent?

[summer roost]

there's a fixed amount of work that you will need to complete in order to get two degrees. How much extra work you take on each term will determine how quickly you get through that backlog of stuff to do.

[ocean stream]

ohhh i get it

so 50% more allows me to get through more work, can I do summer classes to try to counteract less work?

[summer roost]

possibly - that would depend on the school. Classes required for a major are often taught only once a year.

The best way to minimize the amount of work you need to put in to get two degrees is to try to find courses that count towards both degrees.

[ocean stream]

from what I've seen physics and computer science dont mesh together a ton, its something that is definitly utlizeable a couple times but it seems rare

[ocean stream]

is that the only way? ik for basic classes you can use clep exams

[summer roost]

there's a decent amount of overlap between theoretical physics and CS, but much less overlap between experimental physics and CS, as I understand.

[ocean stream]

whats the difference between theoretical and experimental, i thought that was taught in grad

i thought the only overlap is math

[summer roost]

(not my major, but) my understanding is that you can choose physics classes that are more geared towards simulations and less towards practical lab work, and those simulations need coding.

[ocean stream]

ive heard of that, so do those count towards CS, i thought that that just means it requires some cs class as a prereq

[summer roost]

those cs classes are overlap between a CS degree and the physics degree, then.

and the physics classes that have the cs classes as a prereq likely count as science electives towards a CS degree.

[ocean stream]

but you get credit for them? I thought that wasnt the case

[summer roost]

every degree has a list of classes that you must take, plus a list of other requirements - a certain number of science credits, a certain number of liberal arts classes, etc.

So: if there's a physics track that requires CS classes, those CS classes are part of the required classes list for that physics track.

If the CS degree requires a certain number of science credits, then those physics classes count towards the CS degree's science requirement.

[ocean stream]

is that something i can plan out if i know what classes a school offers and what their major reqs are?

[summer roost]

yes. and it's a conversation that you can have with advisors at the school, even before enrolling.

[ocean stream]

alr cool, and do you imagine its much more stress, i already study like a ton for the sake of it and am not stressed

[summer roost]

that's gonna depend on the individual. Would you say that high school has come very easily to you, or would you say that you have to put work into getting good grades?

[ocean stream]

high school was difficult at first but then i went on a book rampage and can usually complete any homework for the week for all classes in a day now

[summer roost]

if you're already in a habit of studying, then you're in a good position for succeeding at a dual major. Worst case scenario, you'd be able to decide part way through to stop pursuing one degree and just focus on the other - either because you find it too difficult or time consuming to do both, or because you find that one interests you more.

[ocean stream]

ok cool, and lets say i end up not having the time for both but i self study one during summers to completely make up for not taking physics classes or whatever, if I wanted to go to grad school for physics could i like take a test or something that doesnt require me taking every prior class?

[summer roost]

probably not, but I'm not certain.

[ocean stream]

thats a shame, if i were to minor in computer science is that still well respected in a job market?

[summer roost]

less so than a CS major, but much more so than being fully self taught

[ocean stream]

how much less, if i had good projects prior interning experience etc, would i still be a serious candidate for a job at faang?

imagining interviews as a 0 luck based process not taking into account economic factors either

oh and can you finish a CS major in a grad school for physics?

[summer roost]

you're always competing with other real life people for a job, and the company is hiring people based on their educational background, their work experience, the skills that they've demonstrated in their projects, etc. You'd get one of those jobs if the company thought you were the best applicant.

[summer roost]

I believe so.

[ocean stream]

that is perfect, that clears up so many problems for college, i appriciate this so much

I really don't got any more questions, my vague future seems a lot more crystal, i greatly appriciate you

[summer roost]

👍

[ocean stream]

if there is anything you need help with that you think I could help lmk lol

have a good one!

[spark cobalt]

Also, would be a more plausible path if you went into FAANG a couple years down in your career. Trying to fight for the tippy top of the crop for a new grad is applaudable but just wanted to say.

And internships are generally given to people majoring in CS. There is a reasonable expectation for some sort of hesitation to intern someone not doing CS as their main thing in college

[ocean stream]

thats understandable, i would be worried as a interviewer, is there a way to do intern without spending a whole summer? preferably i would want to do physics related experiences

[spark cobalt]

Everything's an economic factor 🙂 the fact that a SWE is so appealing with it's generally high pay is also a byproduct of the economy

[ocean stream]

swe?

[spark cobalt]

Software engineer.

[ocean stream]

yeah thats true, is there a point in the next 100 years where swe pay drops by a noteable amount?

[woeful spruce]

Not sure how anyone can answer that

[spark cobalt]

By the time that happens, less people would be going into this field and the same level of people coming in now are leaving the field (due to old age, retirement, etc.)

Honestly probably more reliant on the growth of technology rather than the underlying course of our economy which is hard to predict.

Hell, in 100 years silicon valley might be in Europe.

[ocean stream]

fair enough ig thats kinda impossible to predict

[spark cobalt]

So many things can happen in 100 years. War, the US might just completely crumble, globalism maybe idk, lots of things

[ocean stream]

oh and i had this quesiton a long time ago, theres some company in the UK that does cool stuff with AGI, is an american CS degree considered just as valuable if i moved to the UK and applied to jobs there?

[spark cobalt]

Either way your career only lasts 30-40 years. And it seems very innately safe for the time being.

[smoky quest]

The world has pretty much standardized on bsc/license - masters - phd. So that would be an equivalent as long as there aren't specific restrictions related to the role (ex: a medical dr or a nurse)

[ocean stream]

ok thats cool, i dont really have any more questions, is there anything more about the field of cs, any thing i can do as a hs senior to help prepare more?

ig that is a quesiton, no more after that lol

[spark cobalt]

Start exploring the field. Lots of CS majors I know of don't realize exactly what they want to do in an industry they didn't realize was so fucking wide.

Have some fun trying new things, try to make a realization to how things work around you in regards to the internet, how operating systems work, how computer vision works, etc. Just have fun

[ocean stream]

so essentially, whatever one thinks is cool, go learn it

[spark cobalt]

Your CS program will assume you have 0 prior knowledge anyways. But obviously, getting to program some projects and get some programs under your belt is really nice. Also is a really nice show for the many freshman internships that are available.

[ocean stream]

arent freshman internships famously useless?

[spark cobalt]

Honestly unsure. But it's definitely something to leverage over your other peers for future internships to come.

[smoky quest]

It's also the opportunity to try different domains to see what you enjoy or not.

You will also notice that many similar concepts permeate through seemingly different domains

[summer roost]

your career will last a long time. Ideally, you'll be able to find a career doing something that you enjoy. And the best way to get a career doing something that you enjoy is to experiment to find out what you enjoy, and to learn about things you enjoy and gain experience and expertise with them.

[ocean stream]

alright, well i think im just gonna try to live by the statement of learn what is cool

[ocean stream]

yep thats why i want to double major, interests shift core values shift and you have to have a wide net so you dont get sad

honestly this conversation has been some of the best cs career advice ive ever heard, i greatly appriciate all of the knowledge you guys shared

[spark cobalt]

Good luck in life

[ocean stream]

🇼

[spark cobalt]

Hope college apps are going great

[ocean stream]

i defeated that boss, now i just gotta hope and pray to get into a solid school

dark souls p2 😭

[upper swift]

I am looking for someone who is good at UI/UX, anybody up?

[novel sequoia]

Hey! I have learnt all the python basics like data types, loops, oops and other modules. I have also made some programs like toc tac toe and chess bot. But when I do quizzes or tests I am getting very bad results. But I am good solving programming questions. It's just like the theory how can I improve it?

[kind basin]

You

[wicked geyser]

a

[elfin marsh]

Hi I'm really really bad in logic and math .. but always been commended by bosses and others to be a really creative and good problem solver (is programming still something which i can tackle or at least improve on) .

TLDR yeah i need the money even though I'm bad at it .

[vapid jay]

Hi! I've understood all the fundamentals of Python, including data types, loops, errors, and other modules. But I consistently perform poorly on examinations and quizzes. But I excel at answering queries about programming. How would I make it better? It is indeed exactly such as the hypothesis.

[elfin marsh]

i would assume its a logic based problem .. syntax is easy logic takes time to hone .. syntax and the things you mentioned are the tools but knowing how to build it is something difficult . Practice and logic problem books may help i should think .

and of course tackling actual problems .

[neat bolt]

Hello. My experience with python has been writing small scripts and custom tools for my personal use. I've been reading progit book recently and planning to do some webscraping tutorials and courses. I would like to know if it's possible earn a good enough salary by only doing freelance webscraping on upwork. By "good enough salary", I mean $600-$700 per month (I live in a rural town of a third-world country and living costs are quite low
here).

[earnest notch]

Web-Scraping can be pretty labor intensive if you have to deal with a lot of special cases, but from what I see on the platform, it seems possible! It might also be a good way to get a foot in the door and later transform to a full-time job in the software development world.
As a tip, I'd always look into how you can make web-scraping easier/more comfortable for yourself. Laziness is a programmers best friend.

[neat bolt]

I'm planning to go deep into web scraping to the point where I can write customized javascript interpreter and cloudflare js challenge solvers so I can scrape dynamic websites faster without a web driver. Will that give me an edge over other people in the field? Or it won't make much difference?

[earnest notch]

I'm not an expert on the topic (I'm in data science), but these sound like really great goals! I think there is probably a hard ceiling for how far you can advance your career with web scraping, but the skills you learn along the way are also essential for other parts of software development.

[near ocean]

I doubt the webscraping part of any data science/engineering position is actually the important part
This sounds like premature optimization

[buoyant seal]

Data Engineering on another hand is important for Data Science

[summer roost]

my intuition would be that the clients who are paying you for web scraping jobs likely have no idea what makes one site more difficult to scrape than another, and are therefore unlikely to pay more for scraping a difficult site than an easy one. My intuition would be that you'd maximize profit by focusing on scraping many easy sites over fewer more difficult sites.

[gilded valley]

The thing about webscraping that makes it expensive is the legal risk - companies regularly charge 10k per scraping job not because it's difficult or expensive, but because they're willing to take a huge portion of the legal risks on for you

[neat bolt]

I see. That's a good point. Most clients won't care that much about whatever crazy techniques or bypasses you use for web scraping as long as they get a satisfying product at the end of the day

[summer roost]

right, and they don't understand the technical details, or they wouldn't be paying someone else to do all the work, so explaining why one site is technically challenging to scrape and another isn't would just fly over their heads.

[neat bolt]

Websites usually mention in their ToS for that kind of stuff right? Whether they allow scraping or not.

I've seen some freelancer profiles mentioning they won't scrape stuff that're legally questionable

[summer roost]

almost all scraping is legally questionable. If sites want people downloading their data en masse, they provide APIs for it. If the only way to get the data is by scraping it out of web pages, it's usually because the owners of the site don't want people doing it.

[gilded valley]

Yes, and that is often ignored

The TOS isn't the only point of concern

The exact shape of the legal risks is complicated

[lapis wind]

"Hello, yes, we would like you to scrape all of these images from this site, which may or may not have copyright attached, but don't worry, the site's TOS doesn't explicitly say about the images 😉 "

[gilded valley]

Copyright is only of concern for redistribution

[summer roost]

most sites are supported by ads, and any ad-supported site doesn't want you scraping it with a script, because scripts don't click ads and make purchases.

[earnest notch]

There's a large gap between sites not wanting it and it being illegal or immoral... That said, it is of course really important to stay on the safe side with local legislation and the big players.

[neat bolt]

I mean most websites which legitimately host copyrighted content always mention it in their ToS. Even shady sites like r34 where people blatantly post copyrighted artworks had an obilgatory mention about breaking copyrights in their ToS.

[summer roost]

Whether it's immoral or not is obvious: consuming the owner's content and bandwidth while depriving them of revenue is tantamount to theft. Whether it's legal is less obvious, as different courts have come down with different rulings on that at different times.

[novel sequoia]

Basic ones like what will be the hex of an integer or execution of programs

[summer roost]

feel free to discuss that in #community-meta - that's got nothing to do with careers.

[ruby olive]

Hi I need some advice

I am working on a badass python game made with pygame , and it's an open source project

How do I earn stars in github?
I have none now :(

[peak halo]

from people looking at the repository and pushing the star button. you don't "earn" them per se.

[ruby olive]

Okay how do I attract people to my repository?

[lapis wind]

The better question is why do you want stars?

[ruby olive]

Because the quality of my project is very high and I am putting a lot of time and energy on it

Its a very good project made with PyGame (It's ongoing)

[peak halo]

if the project is as good as you say it is, it should naturally attract interest as it grows. if it's the BeesAndBirds-Remake repo on your github, it needs a readme.

[ruby olive]

Omg how'd you find out

[peak halo]

omniscience.

[lapis wind]

When someone only has a couple repos on their github, is asking about github stars and says something is ongoing, it's pretty easy to look at what they've committed to in the last few days.

[ruby olive]

LOL

[proud badger]

Wait why? That’s just sacrificing like half your potential earnings for a decade.

[peak halo]

If I weren't already American, I would want to see if our political turmoil levels off before coming here.

[proud badger]

I can’t imagine it affecting quality of life that much and you still retain your Canadian citizenship working in the US but I guess people prioritize different stuff

[summer roost]

I can’t imagine it affecting quality of life that much
It's really easy to underestimate how much of a toll our current level of hate and lack of social cohesion takes on mental health.

[proud badger]

That’s funny. I’ve received way better health care as a non resident of NY than I did as a resident of Canada as someone with chronic issues - which has been incredibly good for my mental health. Canada’s housing and job situation isn’t great for mental health either if you’re young. Canada gets plagued by a lot of US politics in our news, articles, etc and I wouldn’t consider it particularly cohesive. More cohesive than the US tho I’ll give you that. And less likely to see or know people who get killed.

Canada is good if you are dying and get sent to ER tho I’ll agree. But high paid jobs in US typically have health insurance. If not the pay gap in professional industries like tech covers way more than the expensive private health care insurance premiums of the US

[frank sorrel]

Hey, i was wondering what degrees i should major in for my job, basiclly i want to work on physiscs sim programs and overall math physics and computer science jobs, so i was wondering if i should major in cs or in physics

[peak halo]

Please do not advertise your help session in discussion channels. The people who are currently scanning the help channels will look.

[inland spear]

mb thanks!

[spark cobalt]

Don't think that would ever happen

[mellow gull]

I really hv a great idea but need people to make that app ?anyone here interested in making app on mental health issues ?

[elder forge]

see #rules 6, 7 and 9

[mellow gull]

Im not promoting , asking help but just finding people interested

[near ocean]

This isnt the place, if you want to find contributors you should start working on something people can... contribute to

[idle sleet]

How to find the best career?

I would possibly like indie game development or movie making. But I saw the salary is low.

[peak halo]

this is a matter of personal preference. what sort of input are you looking for?

[near ocean]

There is no such thing as the best career, go work with what you enjoy

[idle sleet]

Sorry, but I hate this answer. I don't know what I enjoy...

[idle sleet]

It doesn't work like that.

[summer roost]

it absolutely does.

[near ocean]

If you have no clue about what you enjoy then you should start there
Pick out a couple projects that touch on areas you might be interested in, try them out, rinse repeat, go to Uni, by the end of it you should have a solid idea of what you want to spend 8h a day on

[summer roost]

people normally choose careers based on a combination of what they're interested in, and what they think will provide the most stability and freedom.

[vapid jay]

if there was such a thing as a "best career", wouldn't everyone just do that?

[spark cobalt]

don't know what to do because you don't know what you enjoy
you can only know what you enjoy by doing something

See how the cycle works? Just go out and try new things. You don't have to enjoy everything but you'll start to pick up certain things you see yourself liking more and other trends that'll lead you to a job you'll love doing.

[idle sleet]

You want to tell me that if I enjoy playing football I should work as a football player? Even though I'm bad at football? That's crap.

[idle sleet]

Yeah, I know that I need to try things, the problem is that I would like to try everything in order to decide :/

[buoyant seal]

that's why for IT career... people go to university. During it they are exposed to trying everything IT related.

[vapid jay]

i think that's a fair point. but it's also true that if you pursue a career with complete disregard for what you enjoy, you'll end up hating your job no matter how much money you're making. so yeah, do fun stuff but with a healthy dose of reality constraints I guess

[spark cobalt]

There's only so many attributes to a job that you find extremely desirable or undesirable. Whether it's work life balance, pay, mathematic-heavy job or not, etc. You don't have to try out everything to know your "dream job" per se.

If you didn't like manual labor, it would be meaningless to try construction worker, then gardener, etc.

[summer roost]

I'd lump that in with the "stability" factor I mentioned. If you're bad at football, it probably won't be a career that you can consistently make money with.

[spark cobalt]

^

Ultimately you will have to make tradeoffs.

[idle sleet]

Ok.

[summer roost]

(even if you're very, very, very good at football, it's probably not a career you can consistently make money with)

[idle sleet]

Alright. I understand. But if you got job that you enjoy but pays really low, and you can't afford to live normally, can't afford good food, can't start a family,... I don't know

[vapid jay]

yeah. reality constraints.

[idle sleet]

Ok, so you need to be good at it, you need to enjoy it, etc.

so it's some kind of mix of all different attributes

[buoyant seal]

https://youtu.be/1HFv47QHWJU if u haven't watched Inside Out, quite recommending whatching it.
The thing is... the things we like are born from our memories? During our childhood/teenhood we are supposed to acquire our... interests? or even during adulthood.
The problem is only to recognize... that it is something that can be good to pay for living Evaluating best favourite/best paid / and being not illegal xD

[idle sleet]

thanks! 'll try that

[summer roost]

sure. Personal preference plays a huge factor, as does your perception of your ability to succeed at the job, and your perception of the benefits of the job, in terms of pay and work/life balance and so on.

[near ocean]

Having to be good at your job to have a successful career is debatable really
Lots of incompetence at all levels, you'll see once you enter the workplace

[summer roost]

it's also not uncommon for people to switch majors in university if they discover they don't like the thing they thought they'd enjoy as much as they assumed they would.

[idle sleet]

Maybe what am I asking, seems completely clear and obvious to you, but for me somehow it's tough and longer-lasting problem

Thanks for your ideas and help ❤️

[summer roost]

there are lots and lots and lots of different jobs out there. There are probably far more professions than you're aware of.

you need to start narrowing down the list somehow, and "things I enjoy" is a very good starting place.

[prisma hollow]

Are certificates advantageous or waste of money?

[near ocean]

The only certificate that actually matters is the degree

[prisma hollow]

Yeah i was thinking of buying ds course to add certificate on resume

But i always thought certi arent wroth it but someone told me to get some

[summer roost]

What type of job are you hoping the cert would help you get?

[peak halo]

I work in data science/AI, and my company wouldn't care about data science certificates at all.

[near ocean]

Certificates that come from companies that own a product, ie Google issuing a GCP certificate might be worth it but these are limited to cloud stuff, kube, cybersecurity
There arent any generic python certs that matter

[prisma hollow]

I want to enter data science field, and want to learn more about it, so thats why i was thinking about it.

[near ocean]

You should consider going to university

[peak halo]

if you just want to expose yourself to it in general, you can read a book or follow a video course. but if you're serious about getting a job as a data scientist, and you don't already have professional experience, getting a data science-related degree is the only way.

[prisma hollow]

I was thinking about it as well but i have to wait for next fall

Can you suggest me good universities for masters?

I'm completely new in US, i was gonna apply for fall in early priority deadlines.

[peak halo]

there are a lot of universities in the US and I don't know your location or what your considerations are.

[prisma hollow]

Rn, I'm in NJ, was thinking about rutgers, but can relocate anywhere if the uni is in top50 us rank

[peak halo]

I wouldn't relocate for a university until you've been accepted. so you're looking to do a masters. what is your undergrad in?

[prisma hollow]

I got admission in virgnia tech, but i hd to defer it cuz of personal reasons.

[peak halo]

virginia tech is in the middle of nowhere, so don't go there unless you're into that

[prisma hollow]

I did bachelor's in computer engineering.

[peak halo]

I gather you aren't a US citizen?

[prisma hollow]

Ofc I'll relocate after i get accepted

[prisma hollow]

Yeah, I'm a green card holder.

[peak halo]

so, the bad news is that you can't get state resident tuition. the good news is that that doesn't have to be a consideration

[prisma hollow]

What do you mean by state resident tuition?

[peak halo]

US citizens typically get a discount on tuition if they go to a public university in their state

[prisma hollow]

I'm considered NJ resident.

[peak halo]

does that mean you get in-state/resident tuition at public NJ schools?

[prisma hollow]

Yeah

But I can't start it in spring, have to wait for fall. Earliest i can take chance for summer intake

[deft epoch]

looking for someone to help me with python. Wondering how long it took you to completely learn python, and what resources yall used.

[haughty ruin]

I was a software engineer before learning Python, but datacamp helped me a lot. It definitely has a data science focus, but that was helpful for me at the time.

[deft epoch]

did you go go to college for software engineering? I am majoring comp sci right now, but doing the gerneral eds. Tying to get ahead and learn python and hopefully ditch college

[summer roost]

it's a much better idea to stay in school and get the degree.

[haughty ruin]

My degree was in physics. Definitely stay in school and get a degree. I've done a lot of hiring. I won't hire people without college degrees. No offense.

It shows dedication and follow through.

[deft epoch]

no problem! Currently in the military so my college progression is very slow.

[haughty ruin]

everyone has their own pace, nothing wrong with taking it slowly

[deft epoch]

also when you are looking for people to hire, does it really matter what college you go to? I see UT austin and UT dallas are high, but does ranking of the college really make a huge difference?

[haughty ruin]

Some companies care, most don't. I certainly never cared about what college someone went to, just that they were committed enough to actually go.

[neat bolt]

That's weird way to look at it. For a lot of people, getting a degree isn't an option

[fresh forge]

I am self taught, my first language. Just started when COVID broke out. I am allergic to offices, so not really looking for a job, rather trying to make it big on upwork... a long road ahead of me. Luckily I already have a flexible career as a translator, so this allows me to progress at my own pace.

[deft epoch]

oh okay. I appreciate your feedback :).

[summer roost]

for CS in particular, the ranking of the school doesn't really matter. The curriculum is similar at any school, so the biggest difference between them is access to resources, availability of internships and student jobs like teacher's assistantships, quality of research professors, etc

[haughty ruin]

I 100% understand that there are extenuating circumstances that prevent some people from getting a degree. But when you're looking at thousands of resumes over the course of a month, you have to make cuts somehow.

[deft epoch]

Could anyone also tell me how often they end up using python? Is there another langugae is more commonly used that I should divert my attention to? I just got past the print('hello world') stage. Currently learning about dictionaries

[haughty ruin]

It really depends on the field. It's almost exclusively used within the data science/machine learning world. My company uses a lot of C++ in addition to Python, but I code in Python every day

[deft epoch]

Honestly, I never knew coding could be so stressful. I wish I could skip all this basic stuff and start working on the snake game haha

[haughty ruin]

You're going to be constantly learning for the rest of your career, but it gets less stressful for sure

[summer roost]

other heavily used backend languages include Java, C#, C. PHP. Heavily used frontend languages include JavaScript, TypeScript, and Kotlin.

[haughty ruin]

PHP 🤮

[buoyant seal]

C is wrong addition here

[frail gale]

wagwan

[buoyant seal]

heavy popular web backend languages: Python, Java, C#, Javascript/TypeScript, PHP, Ruby
web frontend languages: Javascript/Typescript

[haughty ruin]

If I had to place a bet on the top languages 5 years from now, its gunna be Python, C++, Rust, Go, React

[summer roost]

Definitely not. C is used very heavily. Tons of important software is written in C, and embedded programming is almost exclusively C still.

C much more heavily than Ruby or Rust.

[buoyant seal]

godlygeek — Today at 2:33 AM
other heavily used backend languages include Java, C#, C. PHP. Heavily used frontend languages include JavaScript, TypeScript, and Kotlin.
u named it as backend language. in the frame of web backend, C is not

[haughty ruin]

backend doesn't necessarily mean web

[summer roost]

I didn't mean it as a web backend language, I meant it as a backend language

[buoyant seal]

oh. I usually named other stuff explicitely, desktop/embedded/mobile development.

because... backend is usually on server side
while desktop/mobile can be serving as alternative to web frontend

[summer roost]

That's an oddly web focused perspective.

[buoyant seal]

i think it is less confusing, for the purpose of desktop/mobile development serving as alternative to web frontend.

[summer roost]

That's not less confusion, it's just an entirely different way of dividing things up.

[frail gale]

Can you recommend me some films about coding?

[buoyant seal]

well.. i am having web dev as the only field of development i am interested/specializing in... so kind of that's why i prefer to see everything from its point of view

[summer roost]

I was using backend to mean stuff that runs on remote servers, and frontend to mean stuff that runs on end user machines. Which is a perfectly normal definition of frontend and backend.

And within that context, the languages I named are among the most commonly used, for each of those areas.

[buoyant seal]

umm... yes, C in this point of view is backend language since it is used to develop... Linux OSes for our remote servers and their ecosystem.
i just prefer to have clear division between ecosystem usages? OS-system development (with usually low level languages) is one thing, and in high level languages web stuff is targeting entirely another ecosystem

[haughty ruin]

Don't forget.... it's also what python is built on 😛

[frail gale]

Who create IT languages? How are they called?

[buoyant seal]

😛 only CPython

[summer roost]

which is the default Python that almost everyone uses.

[haughty ruin]

Also, pypy and jython still use c

[summer roost]

someone who's literally asking for a survey of what languages are popular probably doesn't need as granular an answer as you're trying to give. And, C is still a very heavily used language.

[peak halo]

does the quality of the research professors not drive the school's ranking, and does the school's ranking not drive internship availability?

[haughty ruin]

The professors have more to do with internship availabilty than anything

well connected professors tend to get internships for their students

[peak halo]

I see

[buoyant seal]

Sure. I just did not agree with your categorization, because it was unclear enough to my opinion from the point of targeting entire different ecosystems of related stuff to know.
I prefer as i said categorization (web backend, web frontend, desktop, mobile, embedded), due to each category asking certain different ecosystem from developer to know
ecosystems define expected skills for a job to know

[summer roost]

yes, those were examples of things that would lead to differences between schools. But those aren't huge differences. It's not like every internship at Apple goes to MIT students. But being an MIT student probably does give you some quantifiable edge. I'd wager that the best school vs a middle of the pack school might be... 50% better? It's certainly not 10x better in terms of future opportunities.

[summer roost]

you have left all backend other than web backend off from your list. That's a huge area that you're completely ignoring. Honestly it's probably the biggest area in terms of number of employees

[smoky quest]

It would matter more if you wanted to get into a phd and publishing papers.
But for the purpose of career in the industry, the professional network you build there will matter more. Better school will correlate with students having better careers and thus pulling up their classmates since they are resources they can leverage

[buoyant seal]

non-web backend? what is it? (i am serious)

[smoky quest]

trading platform? Backend for tesla cars?

[buoyant seal]

i thought tesla cars are combination of embedded development + web backend

[buoyant seal]

trading platforms = web backend + web frontend/mobile/desktop development

may be we have some misunderstanding what means web backend?

[smoky quest]

not everything a car does will be visible in a web ui 😉
a proprietary trading platform may not necessarily have any user visible stuff.

There may also be specific services like distributed databases that aren't connected to any end user

[buoyant seal]

lets clarify definition => web backend is not have to be having any GUI. it can be reused by any other web backend, and only at its edges having API interfaces to interact with web frontend/mobile/embedded/desktop stuff

[summer roost]

if something isn't connected to the web, it clearly can't be "web backend", right?

[buoyant seal]

web backend can be entire cloud infrastructure in AWS, with most of its stuff in private networks never exposed.
only some small stuff having public exposed in public networks

[buoyant seal]

web backend purpose is to be reused by different GUIs in my opinion. by web frontend/mobile/desktop

[summer roost]

right - so if there's no GUI, it's not web backend, then?

[buoyant seal]

if it has no human GUI, and runs on remote servers -> it is web backend
if it has machine UI (RestAPI, gRPC, GraphQL, and etc) (accessable in public or even only in private networks in cloud) and runs on remote servers -> it is web backend
if it has human GUI -> it is not web backend

[summer roost]

then you're using a very bizarre definition of "web backend".

[haughty ruin]

if that's your definition, then c is most certainly a web backend language lol

graphical user interface

[summer roost]

right, the order matching system for a stock exchange is far more likely to be written in C than to be written in any of the languages you listed as backend languages

[buoyant seal]

web backend for me it is something having UI for programmatic access only and runs on remote servers. i think quite clear definition it is. (backend API as clear example)

[summer roost]

Why would you call something a "web backend" if it's not accessed over the web, and it's not part of the backend of a web site?

[haughty ruin]

FWIW, 99% of professional software developers are going to consider "web backend" to be server side code facilitating a website's functionality.

[summer roost]

This would be my definition, yeah. (Or a SPA or web-like mobile app)

[buoyant seal]

because... if it is accesable over networks even in private networks, it is still accessable over web. it is just not accessable over public web.
backend/cloud infrastructure is very common to have message queue workers processing tasks, or having its databases/most of stuff in private networks hidden for the purpose of security.
it is very much essential common security to hide most of backend behind firewall in completely private networks having only certain entrypoints

[summer roost]

there's no such thing as "public web". "web" refers to the internet. https://www.techopedia.com/definition/5613/web

The Web is the common name for the World Wide Web, a subset of the Internet consisting of the pages that can be accessed by a Web browser.

[buoyant seal]

but stuff in private networks can be accessed by web browsers of any user... it just requires port forwarding, or VPN tunnel for user to get access over those private resources.
and other backend services also interact with those private resources through usage of web protocols like GET/POST and etc

[haughty ruin]

Further, I'd say code supporting a website's functionality, but not directly handling requests wouldn't even be considered a web backend.

[haughty ruin]

That's not necessarily true

side note: that poor guy that was asking for language recommendations probably dipped a while ago lmao

[buoyant seal]

anyway, the point is. Public and Private parts of web backend/cloud infrastructure, both use exactly same technologies/frameworks stuff. There is no point for them to be different categories. They all reuse same tech like docker containers / kubernetes / AWS cloud objects and etc
It is just a matter of security settings, if some part is exposed and some is not.
in staging environment they can be exposed, in production they can be not exposed.

[summer roost]

I think you'd be very hard pressed to find anyone else who thinks that things not accessed via a web browser (or web app) count as "web backend". And if you decide to make up your own meaning of common terms, you shouldn't be surprised when those unique definitions lead to disagreements with other devs.

[buoyant seal]

i am surprised u think this way. all those techs and building stuff like that are asked exactly from web backend developers (+DevOps engineers)

[summer roost]

I'm not sure what you mean by that. I work on non-web backend systems

as I said, I suspect there are more employees working on non-web backend systems than on any other type of development.

[haughty ruin]

@buoyant seal Would you consider an ASIC running code to control a robot in an airgrapped warehouse to be a web backend?

[buoyant seal]

~~i am surprised u think this way. all those techs and building stuff like that are asked exactly from web backend developers (+DevOps engineers) ~~
i am surprised u think this way. all those techs and building cloud infrastructure in public and private network access are asked exactly from web backend developers (+DevOps engineers). Both cloud infra in public and private networks raised by Backend+DevOps engineers are still remaining web backend, if we exclude parts of web frontend.
clarified

[buoyant seal]

embedded development (with network communications if it has them)

web backend infrastructure is abstracted from hardware CPU architecture and other details fully. ideally in the future https://docs.docker.com/desktop/wasm/
if it is directly tied to hardware details -> it is embedded

[haughty ruin]

what if you have c code running that robot, still air gapped

and its running in a container?

[summer roost]

I still can't make sense of what you're saying.

all those techs and building cloud infrastructure in public and private network access are asked exactly from web backend developers (+DevOps engineers).
I don't know what you mean by "asked from", and I don't know what you mean by "and building cloud infrastructure".

[buoyant seal]

well, it becomes shaky ground, i admit.
if robot code interacts with this container over even local network, then it interacts with web backend... i guess. Technically then Robot code running at its OS/hardware level is still embedded, but when it sends network request to container then in container it becomes already web backend after it reached container.

[summer roost]

I can't imagine anyone who works on that robot would agree that there's a "web backend" involved in any part of it.

[buoyant seal]

well... yeah! web == network!

[summer roost]

no, it doesn't... "web" means "world wide web", which is a subset of the internet.

[haughty ruin]

Respectfully, as someone who builds self driving cars, disagree

[buoyant seal]

well... lets clarify.. that there is existing
offline web backend => your robot case
there is public web backend in cloud and hardware servers then
there is private web backend in private networks of cloud and hardware servers then

[gilded valley]

REST APIs are backend web development surely? And the majority of them aren't talking to browsers

[buoyant seal]

i know a case when web backend is written and sent to run in offline hardware servers for security purposes
Some kind of AI controlling quality of production at factories

[summer roost]

Fair enough, but they're at least accessed over HTTP.

[summer roost]

then that's absolutely not "web backend" by any definition I've ever heard of besides yours. If it's air gapped and not connected to the web, what is it the "web backend" of?

[buoyant seal]

and our robot example in ASIC can be sending HTTP requests to container having REST API (container runs exclusively on this robot). Does it make this container web backend?

[gilded valley]

gRPC, GraphQL, and etc
are definitely not implicitly part of web backend

[summer roost]

no

[buoyant seal]

but this container is using all ecosystem of web backend technologies and principles? including technology to run, technology to develop it, and technology to communicate with it?

[summer roost]

... no?

it's using technologies that predate the web and "web technologies"

containers aren't inherently "web" related.

[buoyant seal]

blinked this little container can be having entire kubernetes inside (theoretically) (or just having kubernetes running on this robot directly)
That could be having REST API applications, message queues, web backend with web sockets. One of container can be even frontend web application exposed to some phisycal screen on the robot

entire... small.... network of different network accessed objects communicating with each other. isn't it web?

[summer roost]

no, because it's not connected to the web

[smoky quest]

as much as linked lists are web

[summer roost]

do you think message queues didn't exist until after dynamic web pages became a thing? Or that the first thing containers were used for was web sites?

[gilded valley]

entire... small.... network of different network accessed objects communicating with each other. isn't it web? (edited)

This seems to imply a misunderstanding of what web is in the context of web development - web specifically refers to the world wide web, a collection of documents linked together via hyperlinks - it's not just a collection of servers talking to each other

[buoyant seal]

surely existed. But i mean it as pattern implemented exactly with web technologies. Where we interact with some API that interact with producer sending the task to our broker. And workers take and complete tasks from network accesable broker.
This example is interesting because API can be in public access of your web, and producer and workers can be firewalled away and existing only in private networks, thus aren't existing in your web definition.

[summer roost]

Where we interact with some API that interact with producer sending the task to our broker. And workers take and complete tasks.
None of that is web-specific. All of that has been done for many decades.

[buoyant seal]

and i don't argue with it
but at the same time it is having web specific implementation and meaning now besides other meanings.

[graceful mason]

web development also refers to intranets

[gilded valley]

you're right - but the "web" in the noun-phrase "web-development" is still referencing the world-wide-web

[buoyant seal]

https://github.com/donnemartin/system-design-primer
now message queues become part of architecture patterns for system design directly used exactly for web infrastructure and development

[summer roost]

no, definitely not. They have been a staple of system design long before "web infrastructure" began to need them.

[graceful mason]

Maybe when it was first coined... but it's beyond that now

[summer roost]

@buoyant seal by your definition, the programmers building CPython and the Linux kernel are "web backend" developers. I guarantee you that they wouldn't agree.

I certainly don't agree that I'm a "web backend" developer.

[gilded valley]

I agree - someone working on a PHP site is still a web developer regardless of whether it's on the internet or a private network, the term has moved beyond its origins - but the origins matter for highlighting that web != web-of-things-talking-to-each-other

[graceful mason]

ah ok, didn't realise that's where you're coming from - I agree
for what it's worth I develop for each part of this exact kind of tech stack (Robots running on embedded C, which communicate with Java app over 5g, which communicate with an internal website using java backend/react frontend)

[summer roost]

which communicate with Java app over 5g
Would you call that Java app "web backend"?

[graceful mason]

Not at all

[buoyant seal]

... well... it would be difficult to draw line here where web development starts or ends.
I prefer to assume in default definition, that web development is supposed to be abstracted away from hardware implementation details on which it is running though (lets name it strong definition of web development)
and therefore CPython and Linux kernel developers here fall under only weak definition of web development then

[summer roost]

I absolutely guarantee you that they would not agree that they fall under any definition of "web development", just because people who do web development use things that they build.

[buoyant seal]

😆

they remain technically programming language developers / embedded developers / system OS level developers
whatever u name it.

sure... they are heavily reused for web development though, and i am quite sure they write both code for network communications
and some parts of their code can be abstracted away from the rest of their code to be not depended on hardware implementation details
ergh... lets skip it. quite difficult to draw a line here.

[gilded valley]

by your definition - people mining iron for use in cars are building cars

[buoyant seal]

lets say, it is related specialization that people building cars can be expected to know at least at the level of material properties of iron.

web backend developers aren't needing to create OS level network communicating code. But they are expected to know properties of how network communications work

[gilded valley]

the downstream uses say nothing about the upstream

[buoyant seal]

i'll stop commenting just for the sake of this conversation already happening too long. Whoever wishes to agree, you are welcome. Whoever don't. You are right in your definitions too. Everybody is welcome to stick to their own opinions.

I would like to note though...
if web backend developer was hired to write web backend running on kubernetes/docker-compose/containers in your Robot ASIC, and has all reused web backend architectural design patterns... like REST API/message queues and etc.
then if it quacks like a duck, moves like a duck, and looks like a duck... then it is a duck. Even if it is duck running in entirely offline mode ;b

[regal falcon]

what do most companies do as far as when raises are given, like is it yearly or based on production?

[white relic]

A common system is annual base raises for "cost of living" (which may be partly based on the company's performance) and extra for top performers and people getting promotions

[regal falcon]

is it common for people to hop 1-6 months in to see if a company would like to start them at an amount higher than what they have?

[summer roost]

1 to 6 months is quite short for that in my opinion, but 1 to 2 years would be quite normal

[quartz sage]

do u guys use online internship websites?

[pulsar drum]

What are those? Websites for finding internships, or websites that offer a remote internship?

[quartz sage]

remote internship, as a foreign student in the country im residing in, I cannot legally work a local internship.

[pulsar drum]

Ah, I wasn't aware of websites for that. So no, I've never used one.

[smoky quest]

That feels wrong.
What country is that?

[quartz sage]

Singapore

[smoky quest]

have you confirmed with your university that you can't do an internship as part of your studies within the host country?

[trail geyser]

my_str = '101'

my_str = my_str.casefold()

rev_str = reversed(my_str)

if list(my_str) == list(rev_str):
print("The string is a palindrome.")
else:
print("The string is not a palindrome.")

[smoky quest]

Hi! This is unrelated to the topic of this channel. You should check out #❓｜how-to-get-help

[lament rock]

Python industries only.

Hey, so I have a lot of free time right now and I'm willing to dedicate multiple hours a day to coding. I'd really like to get a job in programming as fast as I can (I know that can take several months or years). But regardless, some industry has to be faster than others to break into. For example, it'd be really hard to break into robotics from scratch, since I'd also need to learn all of the prereq math, maybe some minor engineering stuff, and real computer science.

Comparatively, back-end dev should be quicker.

And cybersecurity should be longer than back-end dev, since there is a lot of prereqs and it's very rare to be hired in cybersecurity without working from pretty much the bottom (basically tech support). Or having a degree.

So, what industry is the fastest route compared to the others? I'm NOT saying "get a job in one month" fast, but just the fastest industry with the fewest prereqs and constraints.

Secondarily, with that industry, what would you consider to be the best resource to get into it?

Thanks for any help

[lament rock]

With Python?

Isn't it all JS? @chrome hamlet

Really only looking for Python opportunities, but I will be doing frontend if I can't figure anything out in the Python sphere.

[spark cobalt]

The less mathematically intense the field, the less barrier of entry generally.

[lament rock]

@spark cobalt This is mostly what I figured, but it's a bit hard to find industries that don't have a strong focus in math.

[spark cobalt]

Welcome to front end

[spark cobalt]

Should focus on a field specifically than backtrack to a language. As you already know, just because you know Python doesn't mean you can be a data analyst, or a machine learning engineer, just by being good at Python.

Python is just a means to get something done. What that something is, is what you wanna figure out.

[lament rock]

@spark cobalt Yeah, this is something that I've struggled with a lot. I'm very interested in Python and really enjoy coding in it. So, I would very much like to find a career that focuses on Python that has a very low barrier to entry. Interestingly, front-end dev is probably the only area that I'm not particularly interested in.

Any low-entry fields you can think of (regardless of language) outside of front end?

Thanks for the advice btw

[spark cobalt]

Are you just not interested in other languages?

[lament rock]

I found Rust really exciting and fun. But as a beginner, I hit a wall pretty fast. There just isn't enough documentation geared toward beginners for it. C is exciting, but pretty much any job in C is going the be math-based. This isn't a problem, but it'll take years to get my math up to par.

[spark cobalt]

Then that sounds like you didn't really understand the general programming concepts of Python good enough to move on to another language.

[lament rock]

No, the other languages are great. Rust is exciting, but no good documentation for beginners. And outside of that, virtually no job opportunities. Maybe random Crypto startups. And again, with C, almost exclusively math-based fields. Others are interesting, but fall into similar traps. Didn't care of JS and webdev isn't something I'd like to do, so Python was an easy choice.

[spark cobalt]

I mean Pythons pretty notoriously used for data science, ML, etc. which is reputable for high barriers to entry simply for the math requirement. Which makes me ask why Python then.

[lament rock]

One reason for Python was that it was just enjoyable to use. As with any other job, enjoying what you do is key. I liked working with it, I've enjoyed the community, I like doing algorithms with it. It's just fun to use and it makes me happy. Plus backend stuff isn't specifically hard to break into. Data Science is definitely Python's bread and butter, but it certainly has other applications.

[spark cobalt]

Python can be used to make games. But it'd be stupid for a company to build a game in Python... Right?

[lament rock]

If there are no fields where Python has a low barrier of entry, then I'm fine to get rid of it. I'm just trying to find as many low-barrier-to-entry areas as I can.

[spark cobalt]

The same thing applies to backend. Yeah sure Python can be used for backend. But it suddenly doesn't mean it's the best option, or the option that most companies will take.

[lament rock]

Django is pretty popular.

[spark cobalt]

What you're doing. Not what you're using.

If you truly want to enjoy what you're doing, certainly you'd want to use a language and technology that can meet what you're doing the best?

If you're building backends, wouldn't it be better for your company, for your team, for your clients, for the economy as a whole, if you used the technologies more appropriate for a backend?

[lament rock]

Like django?

[spark cobalt]

Backends just being an example. Applies to everything Python can be "used with"

Imagine a Tesla that used Python in its cars just cuz it can technically use Python. Damn it would've caused a shit ton of deaths.

The moral of the story: Python is just a slow language. In our age, we want everything to be fast. While yes, sure, Python can technically do everything, it can't do everything the best

[lament rock]

I don't even know what you're arguing about. This entire thread is bizarre.

"Know any low-barrier-to-entry areas that use Python?"

"WHY would we use Python for random things?"

Either yes, in which you can list some; or no, and I can move on, which I'm doing now.

Instagram uses Django. IG is the 5th most popular website on the planet. Pinterest uses Django. The 45th most popular website on the planet.

[spark cobalt]

Jesus fuck.

Yep.

[lament rock]

@chrome hamlet Yeah, but why would Tesla not just use Ford motors?

[spark cobalt]

Not a shit post channel jfc

[lament rock]

Sorry, you just made it seem like one, so I was playing along.

[spark cobalt]

To answer your thing with Django.

Nearly every company that I know that uses Django, are probably ones that have started using this technology over like 15 years ago. This means that simply because they're using it now, doesn't make it the current best option. Many companies probably can't justify the cost of rewriting most of their codebase.

Which, nonetheless, even if you were to join Instagram (or other monoliths using Django), the Django they use is one that's almost entirely customized with things completely replaced with their own shit as Django as it is wouldn't be able to take the volume of requests IG gets.

If you wanna get into backend, maybe try Golang. You might like it.

Either way I still don't get your fixation on using only Python in your career. Maybe if there was someone like you except it was for something like BASIC that could convince you otherwise...

You say you enjoy building planes. But if you would only even bother looking at what plane to build based on the screwdriver it requires. I'd say you're more obsessed with the screwdriver than with the drive to build a plane.

Which no one gives a fuck about the screwdriver. People, clients, your future employer and colleagues, just want the damned plane built.

[lament rock]

You are needlessly upset proving a point that doesn't matter. My question was unbelievably simple. You turned it into whatever you think this is.

[dreamy shadow]

I'm wondering if I should pick up a macbook this blackfriday/cyber monday sale. Replace my surfacebook 2 as my laptop for job hunting stuff.

[spark cobalt]

Yes you should

[dreamy shadow]

However, I saw a git repo for a CNN that needed extra requirements.txt for M1 chips.

[spark cobalt]

Not really an apple person but MPB has been pretty nice to work with

Never tried a surface book. But super nice generally to be able to carry something beefy around. Can work anywhere

[dreamy shadow]

Well, professionally I prefer Macbook and MacOS. Less company bs software & easier to install things with just unix based command line.

[spark cobalt]

I've been a Windows person till company gave me a Mac and I was like, fuck it

Never owned Apple till then. Besides airpods but that low-key doesn't count

[dreamy shadow]

I'm not going to much detail of how much Surface Book 2 sucks ***, but for a computer I bought north of 2.4k USD. I expected much better. Similar priced Dell XPS 13 worked much better to this day.

Especially overheating to the point of pillow battery & needing replacement.

[spark cobalt]

The thing is it does matter. That's what I'm trying to tell you. But oh well. You live your life, not mine anyways I shouldn't care.

[dreamy shadow]

Only downside I can see is needing to sell my existing computer. Selling old stuff is always

[spark cobalt]

Might be a lot of people willing to buy. Market for PCs apparently going way down.

Maybe because people unwilling to spend so much for new laptop? Can easily opt for a used one.

[coarse pumice]

Question, what certifications would be the equivalent of Comptia certs for Python if I were looking for coding related jobs?

[white relic]

a bachelor's degree in CS

There is no lesser certificate worth paying for. Certificates in programming are niche and companies don't recognize them as meaningful

[idle sleet]

How do I try out as many things as possible?

What things should I start with?

What if there's a thing, that I don't know about, but that I would love to do?

[idle sleet]

And by the way,
Is there some kind of list of all jobs, areas, careers or things to do?

I would appreciate the fact, that I can scroll through that list and CROSS OUT the things I wouldn't do and CHECK the things I could possibly do. Also I could find out more about jobs or things in the list that I don't know anything about. That would be great.

[coarse pumice]

a list of things to do in what context? Like which career/specialization?

[buoyant seal]

JS that allows Frontend/ backend/full stack/desktop/mobile development
In comparison to this Python offers only backend and QA as
low entry stuff. JS can be added for full stack stuff to python too

Java is low entry and allows mobile, desktop, backend and QA too

[idle sleet]

Like list of all jobs available in the world or smth

[buoyant seal]

Lowest entry with python probably QA. Multiple hired people to my company were recently, and they did not even know how to write automated QA tests

[coarse pumice]

Ineffective way of going about that. Discern what you want to do for the time being, choose that and then go about a search.

You can switch career paths, it's not that big of a problem.\

[idle sleet]

But I don't know what I want to do...

[dense mesa]

@idle sleet i wouldn't recommend a "breadth first search" of careers, pick something and get into it until it becomes boring

[idle sleet]

Yeah I did that multiple times

[idle sleet]

Then what?

[coarse pumice]

https://www.careerplanner.com/ListOfCareers.cfm

[dense mesa]

There's nothing you liked?

[near ocean]

Maybe its time for some more self reflection then
There cant possibly be nothing you enjoy doing

[idle sleet]

I liked something but even though I got bored after

[near ocean]

What was it and how deep did you go into it?

[idle sleet]

Football, Cycling, Floorball, Tennis, E-sport, Game development, 3D art, Animated movies making, Graphic design, Interior design, Programming, Ethical hacking, Cyber security, Artificial intelligence, ...

[hearty island]

cybersec makes a ton of money

[near ocean]

You couldnt possibly have tried all those things at any depth that matters, how old are you again?

[idle sleet]

16 years old

[idle sleet]

Few things for many years (football, cycling). Also things for few years (E-sport, Tennis, Floorball). And other things from 1-2 years to few months or weeks.

[near ocean]

You should stop considering sports as a viable career
Not to be rude but if youre not sure youre gonna be a professional football player at 16, that means youre not going to make it
Theres kids younger than you that have careers lined up in professional sports already

Since this is a python server, why dont we focus on that? How far do you think you've gone in your effort to try out programming, with game dev, AI/ML, cybersec, etc

[hearty island]

within one year of me being a cs major i figured out cs wasn't my path, if that helps

[idle sleet]

I don't consider sports as a career. I only wrote that as things I did in my free time, like hobbies or

[near ocean]

This is #career-advice
If youre not considering them viable careers why mention them?

[idle sleet]

I think I've gotten the furthest in E-sports and Game dev

But while I'm growing, I had sceptical thoughts about E-sport. So I stopped playing CS:GO and looked for some "meaningful" career. That's when I tried all those IT jobs.

I don't know sorry, it's really really hard to express my feelings and ideas.

[hearty island]

my suggestion would be to major in computer science or IT during college and see how you enjoy it since it would expose you to various related disciplines

if you don't like it, then you can change your major based on what people say and other classes you like

a lot of people change their major in college

[novel sequoia]

Can freelancing be a career? I have been doing freelancing for months but got no proposals so is that even an option?

[crisp jewel]

Hello everyone hru?, I would like to do a dual degree and was wondering which one you guys would recommend. They are computer science and physics and computer science and aerospace engineering

[hearty island]

freelancing for beginners is very difficult

[alpine jacinth]

Can I get a job as a computer repair technician while working on a degree to become a software engineer?

[novel sequoia]

So how to git gud?

[gilded valley]

Yes

[near ocean]

CS and aerospace sounds rad af and i would probably pick that one

[crisp jewel]

alright thx, i'm very much in between i love all aspects of both

i love doing physics but aerospace has physics + so much more which i'm very interested in as been in remote control hobby since I was born basically

[summer roost]

The successful freelancers I know are mostly people who worked corporate jobs in the software dev industry for a decade, and then built a freelancing career on the back of the knowledge and experience they gained from that corporate work.

[coarse pumice]

yes.

[summer roost]

when it comes to being successful at freelancing, the best way to think about it is in terms of the skill level required to fill the contracts that you're picking up. If the job doesn't require a high level of skill, then there's a race to the bottom for compensation. If anyone who spent 1 month learning Python and Selenium could do the job, then your competition for that contract will include teenagers from a country with a lower cost of living than yours who can afford to do the job for hardly any pay because they're just looking for a small amount of pocket cash. Once a job requires a higher level of skill, though, it starts to price those amateurs out, and your competition for that job tends to be experienced professionals who at least need to pay rent and feed themselves, and the compensation doesn't wind up just being a race to the bottom.

[fast fog]

what do you guys htink computer engineer major in college, i would like to be an engineer with all the CERTs of a coder

[idle sleet]

Thanks ❤️

[tall nest]

Hi! I'm a high school student that know intermediate python and can use tools such as panda, numpy, basic matplotlib,... but of course still has a lot more to learn. I have also taken advanced coursework in Biology and Chemistry (5 on AP Bio, taking AP Chem and AP Calc BC). I'm interested in doing computational bio/chem research/data analysis to learn more about these fields that I'm interested in going into. I also have experience in reading research papers in the biomedical sciences to compose a review. Although my experiences are limited, does anyone know of any relevant opportunities? Thanks! (It doesn't have to be paid, although some form of compensation would be appreciated)

TL;DR: Looking for opps in comp bio/chem, intermediate level of python, can quickly grasp chem/bio concepts.

P/S: I'm finishing up HarvardX PH526x course on Python for research. Does anyone have any recommendations on further intermediate python course that would be useful for my particular interests? Thanks.

[covert geyser]

I think that CE is fine. From what I remember, it leans a bit more into things like CPU design etc.

[summer roost]

people hiring for coding positions don't generally care very much about certifications. Barely at all, in fact.

[left basin]

hey

[delicate bane]

i think youre on a good track. you will most likely need a graduate degree to work in such a field, so i think for now you should aim towards that goal if you arent already. but before that you should aim to get into a good college, maybe major in something like biomedical sciences or similar with a minor in computer science. i would try to research all the career options out there before you get too far down your path though in case there is another area that interests you more.

[tall nest]

Thanks. I am interested in other stuff too, such as linguistics/philosophy, and maybe econ. I fortunately go to a decent private school (as an intl student on lots of financial aid) so I will get support for college apps. But I want to have some more exposure to see if it's for me, and ofc also for a bit of resume padding.

[delicate bane]

it is rare but there are cases where hs students do summer research with universities. for example, my uni has a summer program that allows grad, undergrad, and high school students to do summer research under the direction of faculty. you should see if there are opportunities like so in your area and if not, you should check for similar online opportunities.

[regal flame]

Anyone from the uk here?

How is cs regarded in the uk

[fair karma]

hey guys.
I am currently taking a course and in the current sequence I am currently at special programs ( armstrong num,strong num , pyramid pattern(I hate this)) Anyways I usually try giving the answer a try using my own knowledge from understanding the concept of the question only I have no background info about it before . I normally end up with same logic but solve it using different loops etc which are kinda more complicated than the ones explained in the course . I can trace the code well and find how the pattern is going but I cant straight come up with the simple loops idea to solve it more easily with lesser lines of code . Note: I still havent took Ds or Algorithims . So my question is how do I practice thinking simpler and smarter solving the question or will I automatically adapt to the concept once I learn DS and Alg I am really confused so hope someone put my mind in peace.

[near ocean]

You might wanna ask something more specific about it
Wdym how is it regarded?

[spark cobalt]

Just start by looking the technology around you and start diving into how they work, and what's the magic behind it. For Routers/Switches/etc. bam you have Network Engineer. Then you have the OS you're using to type to Discord, then you have Discord itself which is composed of a front and a backend, and it goes on.

The goal is to find what fascinates you, then you use that to leverage what you want to do in your career. You're trying to do the other way around which kinda doesn't make sense.

[near ocean]

Like, if its seen as prestigious? Then yes definitely

[vapid jay]

anyone know good tuts or how to learn how to do stuff with api and just how to code?

[summer roost]

this channel is for discussions about jobs and careers.

[spark cobalt]

This is kind of a careers channel. Might have better luck in #pedagogy or #python-discussion

[summer roost]

#pedagogy wouldn't be appropriate, either. That's for discussions about how to teach programming

[spark cobalt]

Ah fair enough

[vapid jay]

i already sent oops

[summer roost]

The only way to get better is just to practice.

[idle sleet]

"The goal is to find what fascinates you,..." exactly!
That's what I was thinking. Looking for something what fascinates me is the expression for me.

[summer roost]

you should delete it, since it's off-topic there.

[spark cobalt]

Then stop looking for a list of jobs. Just look into technology in general.

[vapid jay]

ok

[idle sleet]

Thanks, I understand you.

[spark cobalt]

You already are okay with doing one of the lower end jobs which is game development. Can assume nearly everything else is better.

[idle sleet]

But sometimes I don't know what fascinates me without trying it...

[spark cobalt]

I don't know how having a list of jobs suddenly make you able to try technology compared to not having that list

[regal flame]

I'm starting CS in university, but don't know how much employment opportunities i will get

[spark cobalt]

Just look around you and see how people are writing code to make your life better. Then work from there.

[idle sleet]

I mean, if I can look for description of each job in that list

[spark cobalt]

4 years is very different from now. Frankly no one knows.

[regal flame]

I'm aiming to finish it in 2 years

[near ocean]

If you plan your studies right, get good grades, do at least one internship, show interest in the field then your career is as close to guaranteed as can possibly be

[near ocean]

This is unrealistic

[regal flame]

4 courses per term

[spark cobalt]

Not an effort I'd go through. If you go to LinkedIn and look at the job descriptions there, it won't really help you a bit.

Instead of gunning some idea that it'll do you wonders, just why not try it out first and then make an assessment.

Seems unreasonable to do all this work for something that might not help you at all..

[regal flame]

Do you guys have a degree in cs?

[idle sleet]

@spark cobalt I also tried some kinds of personality tests. Is personality type a thing? I got INFJ and INTJ.

Does it matter? Does it affect my choice of a career?

[spark cobalt]

I don't really keep up with those sorts of things so dunno..

[near ocean]

Many here do

[regal flame]

What's a day working like?

[spark cobalt]

Almost everyone working has a degree except for 2 that I know. And one is planning to go back to college next year anyways

[near ocean]

Its nothing like the degree work

[regal flame]

I started this month at 23

[spark cobalt]

Fun

[summer roost]

yes. The pre-requisites for courses limit how quickly you can complete a degree. I don't know of any university where you could finish the degree in 2 years. 3 might be possible with very careful selection of elective courses.

[regal flame]

Oh maybe i overestimated myself

[summer roost]

it's not just a matter of your own abilities - it's about what courses the degree requires, and which of them the university will let you take in parallel

[near ocean]

There is no way a UK uni would let you graduate a BSc early unless youre some child prodigy

[regal flame]

I'm doing a degree with the University of the People

It's a us based university

[spark cobalt]

Which typically means they started early relative to their classmates. Still same time presumably

[summer roost]

courses in a degree program build on top of each other. You can't take a course until you've met its prerequisites, and some of those prerequisites are only offered one term per year.

[near ocean]

Regardless of genius status or not, expecting to finish early is unrealistic

[fast fog]

what do they typically care about, projects ?

[digital fjord]

Here you can actually do the uni in 2 years, though most people who do so already have some subjects done. It takes a lot of work to get the credit extensions and exceptions approved, and a lot of work to do 45 credits a semester + bachelors thesis

[fast fog]

thankyou for answering my question btw ❤️

[regal flame]

I would like an internship later next year i hope

[summer roost]

prior work experience, education history, and projects that can demonstrate competency with some tools, in that order.

[regal flame]

I was studying Accounting before which i put on hold

[near ocean]

Many courses by opencourseware, any in particular? Also might wanna ask in #python-discussion

[regal flame]

Are most cs jobs remote. I can't imagine going to office everyday?

[fast fog]

thank you my friend you have opened my mind

[near ocean]

Not sure about most but i wouldnt think that they are, even though it seems to be trending that way
People dont want to go to the office to sit in front of a computer all day

[regal flame]

Yea haha

[delicate bane]

have you guys seen this? pretty nifty https://linkedin.github.io/future-of-skills/

[delicate bane]

obviously its somewhat biased since it only uses linkedin user data but still pretty interesting

[near ocean]

Its using profile information, i kind of expected them to use job ad descriptions
Anyone can make shit up about what they do at work on their profile

[delicate bane]

thats true. let me read through their methodology again to make sure. i kinda skimmed it tbh

[lyric onyx]

does it matter to which university you go

[pulsar drum]

From a US perspective, it matters in terms of the quality of your education and what kinds of opportunities/support you may get (internships, counselling, events, etc). Not as much for actually applying for jobs unless it's a particularly prestigious university e.g. MIT

[white relic]

from what I've been told, many "prestigious" universities are notable for their graduate programs, not so much at the undergraduate level, so take that into account

[digital gazelle]

how did you make these

[visual thistle]

Does anyone have any recommendations for a university to go to for programming?

[peak halo]

there are a lot of universities in the world, so you'd have to say your general location and what your considerations are.

[visual thistle]

What do you mean by considerations?

[spark cobalt]

Location, cost, difficulty, prowess, things like that. T

[visual thistle]

Ok thanks!