career-advice

[gritty rivet]

Are you asking what the hourly equivalent of 76k annual would be? 72000 / 52 / 40 = $34.62 / hr

Try #data-science-and-ml

[sand rivet]

I want to learn python from scratch and get professional certificate at affordable price what to do....I want to go into Computer Science and Automation R&D so what all do u suggest

[viscid marten]

Honestly, you can get college pretty cheap right now. After the pail-grant (USA) I start college at WGU for 1kish per semester next month. So that's pretty cheap. You could also learn Python from Data Camp pretty cheap to like 30$ a month.

[hearty island]

i am so lost on how business analysts differentiate themselves from data analysts... like i'm not going to be able to get business data for my portfolio projects... so how do i distinguish myself on my portfolio? is that a bad question?

people usually define business analytics as data analytics from a biz analytics perspective but i'm not really sure what it means

[gritty rivet]

It might depend on the country but in those fields generally a professional certificate isn't worth very much. If you cannot pursue a relevant degree (by far the best option), focus more on building a portfolio of projects that demonstrates relevant skills

@hearty island You may be overthinking the distinction between data analytics and business analytics. It's the skills that matter. But there is no shortage of busineess-relevant data available.

Here's the first example I pulled up from Google, a short list of project ideas with relevant datasets. The first one is on Kaggle which itself has loads and loads of data to work with: https://intellipaat.com/blog/business-analytics-project-ideas-for-beginners/

[pastel thunder]

font for resume? and size?
i am also noticing when i zoom out some font are such that they are smudged due to thickness used, but some other are still readable

[true harness]

use times new roman or some equally accepted font, like computer modern, cambria, or something

[hearty island]

ty

my favorite part of my interview today was that one of my interviewers were driving while i was talking

not that i could do it anyways, 36.5 hours a week during a college semester is impossible

[pastel thunder]

see this, the other font is smaller but more sharp

left is mine, right is someone's elses

[hearty island]

i like the one on the right more

[true harness]

on the left looks more like a formatting issue, there's way too little space between lines

[pastel thunder]

but why smudging?

[true harness]

what smudging?

[pastel thunder]

if you see closely his font is smaller but still relatively clearer

[vapid jay]

ok so i completed my 12th, high school
as per my calclations
i can get this in good college- comp. sci. eng.- specialisation branches only (like AI + ML , AI + DS , robotics etc)
i can get this in decent, not so good college- comp. sci. - core
which should i go for?
if anyone from India here can help, it would be great

[vapid jay]

in short i mean to ask
should i get into a specialiased comp. engineering branch for my bachelors
or i should get comp. eng. core, with a low rank college?

[hearty island]

how much should i tailor my resume to fit a role? like should i be directly using the wording from a role in my resume?

should i be tailoring my resume at all?

[gritty rivet]

Generally yes. Don't copy and paste from their job description, and don't waste a lot of time tailoring for individual jobs you're not even sure you want, but it's often worth having a few versions of your resume tailored for different kinds of positions and making some tweaks for individual applications as well

[gritty rivet]

I'm not from India but generally I would think you should go to the best program you can unless it means specializing in something you know you're not actually interested in focusing on

[gritty rivet]

In terms of how to tailor, it's about including more detail where relevant to the role and less (or none) where it's not. You're trying to communicate as clearly as possible that you're skills and experience fit the role, while minimizing irrelevant info that may be distracting

[hearty island]

it just gets frustrating

[pulsar drum]

I received an offer from a company but I didn't really interview with them. All I did was complete some coding questions and then go over them in an online meeting. But unlike the situation someone else here was in a few days ago, I have no doubts of this offer's legitimacy. On paper, it's a great offer at a big company. Is it just me or is this abnormal? Is it merely a sign of urgently hiring?

[distant spade]

Hi Guys,

So a bit of bg before I begin: I'm (22) interning as a data engineer right now and they tagged me to a project of an outdated tech where I dont get to learn anything that will be useful for my future switches..They are trying to mould me into this IICS developer which is basically a core etl developer... they arent talking about me switching projects and the manager is kinda mad at me I think... do I continue there or do I put in my papers?

If I put in my papers, I have this project a friend is working on that has scope and will probably help me gain more skills on the sde part...again,will be interning there and its sort of a startup ig

Is it wise to do this or do I just stick to the job if the organisation offers to put me in a different project but same role (Data Engineer)

[gritty rivet]

Sounds strange. Did you meet the person you would be reporting to? If not, it's a very reasonable request before signing anything

[pulsar drum]

No, I never met with anyone from the company in person.

[gritty rivet]

Is it an in-person job?

[pulsar drum]

Yes

[gritty rivet]

Then it does seem pretty suspicious to me. I would ask if you could come meet with your team before you provide any personal details

[pulsar drum]

Well, I already provided personal details (like name address phone) and have an offer letter.

Which expires in 5 days 😅

[gritty rivet]

Well I would personally make the same request before accepting the offer... Unless you're so desperate you don't care whether or not it's a terrible place to work

If they can't be bothered to bring you in to meet your manager, it certainly raises questions about how much they care about their employees

[pulsar drum]

To be honest, I am starting to feel a bit desperate. I've been applying for almost 3 months and this is the only company I've gotten anywhere with. I'm concerned if I try to schedule a meeting, they may just find someone else. Or, I go to the meeting and I give a bad impression. I anticipated the interview to be tough/competitive; I didn't think I'd be able to make it through an interview with them, yet now I'm in a position where I have a free ticket to this job basically.

However, these feelings may come from a lack of self esteem rather than from thinking rationally.

[gritty rivet]

I see. You'll have to make your own decision there. If you're currently unemployed and don't have any other strong prospects, maybe taking the offer in hand really is the least risky option because you have so little to lose.

If you're already employed or waiting on another likely offer, then I would say it's definitely worth looking before you leap

Good luck in any event!

[pulsar drum]

Fresh graduate. Unemployed. No internship or relevant work experience. So yeah my prospects are bleak otherwise.

If I had some other offers in the works I would certainly be more inclined to probe deeper into this offer.

[gritty rivet]

Yeah, maybe it will be great and they really are just in a hurry. If not, you can keep looking at least you'll have a paycheck and some experience

[pulsar drum]

The salary is also very high. Like $30-40k higher than any other similar job I've seen posted in this area. Maybe they're paying me to not ask questions 😄

Or maybe I'm bad at searching for the jobs that pay well here

[gritty rivet]

If it really seems too good to be true, keep your wits about you. Once you have a start date and go in to the office, you'll know a lot nore

There really are a lot of scams out there, but it doesn't sound like there are any solid red flags here either

[pulsar drum]

Yeah that is what I am thinking too. How bad can it really be? And they're paying so well. If I have to I can tough it out for a while.

[gritty rivet]

It's not a long-term contact right? There's a lot of those outfits like Revature that will fine you if you leave before two years or whatever

[pulsar drum]

No I don't believe it's a contract. I've read through the offer and nothing suggests that.

It's a FAANG company.

[gritty rivet]

Wow, nice

They do typically pay a bit more than anyone else can. They will work you hard but it's a big opportunity

[pulsar drum]

My to-be manager did email me saying he's open to questions. So I may ask some basic stuff like the specific team I'll be on, expectations of my role, etc. Stuff that I was planning on asking in an interview

[gritty rivet]

I have a co-worker who's first job was at Google. He said he didn't like it because he felt that people were so competitive they weren't helpful to each other, weren't supportive of helping him learn. But I don't think he regrets the experience, it's a great thing to have on your resume

[pulsar drum]

Yeah I don't anticipate I will enjoy the cutthroat work environment long term, but it will help be get other opportunities later. Right now, I don't have nearly as much leverage.

[gritty rivet]

Yes, that's a good idea. Even if he's not available to meet you can at least start to engage that way

[pulsar drum]

Thanks for your help

[gritty rivet]

Hope you'll let us know how it goes. Good luck!

[ivory sluice]

you said you had an online meeting, how long or extensive was that, and who was it with?

idk if your experience was abnormal or not, but in general it does sound like you could celebrate

[pulsar drum]

It was a 10 minute video call. The scope of the meeting was to go over my answers to the coding challenges. Nothing else was discussed. The person I talked to was just some "random" senior engineer at the company. I don't think they were necessarily someone I'd be working with directly.

[ivory sluice]

sometimes HR processes are really funky and maybe they actually forgot to interview you :P

[pulsar drum]

Yes that thought did cross my mind. That's why I'm scared to ask questions. Maybe I'll remind them lol

It was kind weird cause I tried to schedule that meeting for like 3 weeks. There were comms problems so my emails weren't going through apparently. But all that time I thought I was done for cause presumably it's a competitive position; 3 weeks seems like a long time to waste at what is ostensibly merely the start of the interview process. And after I did that mini-interview things started moving very quickly.

[delicate bane]

i mean, im like mina, and i feel like you can probs celebrate

[fickle shard]

Hello everyone. I've been coding for roughly 5 years. In my time I taught myself the ins and outs of web application backend development, web application security, test driven development and version control to decent level. I have been applying to junior jobs for the past 2-2.5 years. So far, I have failed 13 out of 13 technical interviews, where I couldn't come up with solutions at all. I have purchased various coding interview courses after a year of failures, but that proved to not help at all. I regularly practice on codewars and I fail 9 out of 10 katas, no matter the level. What should I do? How can I be failing so hard, yet be able to work with a wide range of stacks?

[smoky quest]

The main advice there would be to diagnostic why you are failing at leetcode and working towards remediating that.
Can you expend on why you think you can't succeed there?

[fickle shard]

When it comes to coding real projects, I feel that I am able to succeed because it all comes down to logic and does not involve too much math. Coding questions on the other hand are almost always abstract and when I can't find any connections to the real world projects, I stare at the question blankly and have no idea what is being asked of me. For example, if I was asked to create some sort of complex database query with an ORM of their choice, I can read docs, put things together and logically figure it out. However, when a question asks me for example to find all divisors of numbers between a range that squared together also give a square, but when they are to the power of x.... return a tuple of most likely magic numbers, in that case I fail. At first I was afraid to ask, but after some failures, I decided to be bold and always ask for a clarification, or a different way to put the question, that has not helped either

[dark moon]

How do I "demonstrate leadership" or else "advocate for diversity" in my industry?

I'd really like to snag a couple of small scholarships (or big ones) to put on my resume between now and when I graduate. I like the idea of doing something to help get code/computers into the hands of the disadvantaged

[honest pivot]

How are you in an industry if you have not graduated?

[dark moon]

Maybe I should have said "field" instead of industry

But I don't know, you tell me. All I know is that nearly every scholarship demands that I demonstrate some kind of leadership

[honest pivot]

OK, and what field is that? And which "disadvantaged"?

Do you not have any motive besides scholarship money?

[dark moon]

Economically disadvantaged. And I'm a comp sci student, of course

[smoky quest]

Are you able to do leetcode easy questions?

[dark moon]

Well, the money is an afterthought really, its the feather-in-my-cap of getting the scholarships so I can put them on my resume

But I do have other motives: I actually do like teaching, and I do like the idea of being able to help others

[smoky quest]

There are many opportunities around open source or helping people with disability/accessibility issues

[honest pivot]

That would be a cool one, to make coding more accessible somehow. Would be a lot of work

[smoky quest]

There is a lot of work to be done and are always looking for volunteers who can code

[dark moon]

I tried to start a free coding course at my local library, but they said they don't have computers for a workshop. I have a month off starting in a few weeks, and I was thinking of writing some letters and tracking down some funding to buy a bunch of super simple computers

Its a big commitment, I imagine my local library would turn me down flat 😐

[dark moon]

I'm not sure volunteering is really what's being asked of me. What sort of places are looking for volunteer programmers? What sort of code?

[fickle shard]

That truly depends on the question. Add two numbers together - sure. Find longest palindromic substring - I'm afraid not.

[smoky quest]

Associations would look for it.
They would focus on some software to help someone with specific disabilities and helping supporting that use case. Things like screen readers for visually impaired people for instance

[dark moon]

Oh, so, writing programs which actually help people, as opposed to helping people through the act of coding

[smoky quest]

Then I would recommend:

• Learn about the fundamentals of algorithms: https://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Algorithms-fourth-Thomas-Cormen/dp/026204630X/
• Learn about interview coding questions with books like cracking the coding interview
• Practice more leetcode on easy and then medium

[smoky quest]

yeah.
You could also look at open source software (ex: KDE, gnome) and helping their accessibility story. They would have working groups on these topics

[honest pivot]

This kind of thing probably has a more meaningful impact than teaching coding at the library

[smoky quest]

Some associations would also already run teaching tech and would have things setup but missing on volunteers that have time to run the classes

[dark moon]

Hmmmmmm

Suuuuuuper helpful my dudes!

[pulsar drum]

Have you done any reflection on the problems after you try them? If so, what has come of that? Are you able to identify reasons for failing a particular question? Do you understand the solution once you see it?

[fickle shard]

I'm afraid I already have the book which you recommended, I have also purchased craking the coding interview quite a long time ago. I don't use leetcode, but I practice on codewars daily. I've been using all the resources, but I believe it seems I'm just not cut for this

[smoky quest]

but did you read them?

[smoky quest]

also leetcode is the most representative of code interviews, so it would be my end goal.
If it's too difficult for you now, you could start with codingame.com which is more game focus and easier. It may make starting easier for you before going back to leetcode

[fickle shard]

I was unable to comprehend the book deeply as it's very complex, but I did go through the initial chapters and understood how to code the simple algorithms that require sorting etc. I will focus on leetcode problems more as you suggest

[fickle shard]

I understand most solutions, but I am unable to specify why I can't find solutions myself.

[gritty rivet]

Maybe it's about the kinds of jobs you apply to. Most of the technical interviews I've had were nothing like what you were describing and had me solving more practical problems.

I also know people who have benefitted from private tutoring for technical interview prep, so maybe that's something to consider

[pulsar drum]

I think that's a key problem that you need to work on. Learning from failure is an important skill. Otherwise you're just doing problems, failing, getting nothing out of them, and making no progress.

[smoky quest]

I would then suggest to go again through the book and to reach out if there are things you don't understand.
You don't need to understand or go through the advanced chapters, but you should be able to have a good grasp of the "normal" topics

[honest pivot]

It sounds like you might be missing out on some theory. Do you have a degree?

[fickle shard]

I must say that all of the coding questions which I encountered so far had absolutely nothing to do with the job itself. I have been applying for junior django developer jobs as that's what I've been specialising in for the last years. I've been told that you usually are given a django problem/project to fix or amend, but surprisingly I've yet to be given one

[fickle shard]

I'll do that, thank you!

[smoky quest]

That's because leetcode questions (ex: implement fizzbuzz) are the most effective way known so far to package programming abilities without introducing too much irrelevant context.
The questions that would ask you to estimate how many clowns can fit in a plane or the ones that require you to know "the trick" are useless, but there are some benefits to asking someone to write a factorial function or to find palindromes

[gritty rivet]

You've had 13 unlucky interviews I think you said? So maybe on 14 you'll get a more reasonable one. And you can try to target those companies where you've heard the interview is more practical

[fickle shard]

Thank you everyone, I'll review your advisories and work on that. I will also consider a private tutor to help me out. I currently pay for a math tutor, so I might try and swap them for a CS tutor instead. But I do wonder if all of this struggle is because of my inability to comprehend math. After a few months of weekly sessions, my math tutor started subtly hinting (bless them!) that I might want to visit a specialist to detemine whether I have a learning disability when it comes to math. They're very patient with me, but I understand where they're coming from as I seem to be unable to comprehend the most basic math concept, yet I am fine with more comple topics

[smoky quest]

good luck!
And feel free to reach out to this server for questions

[true harness]

you can definitely ask for help in #algos-and-data-structs with these problems

[modest cave]

For my A Levels, I'm thinking of choosing Further Maths, Physics and either Computer Science (A Level) or Digital Games Design & Development (BTEC), any ideas on which of the two I should choose?

[round lava]

youre a self taught developer right?

[modest cave]

I don't see the point in taking Maths and Further Maths, it just seems like an extra stress

Although in all fairness I could take Maths, FM, Physics and CS

[polar forge]

Take Maths as well.

[round lava]

if so commonly suggested courses/books like CLRS and such are recommended more for people who are going to uni for cs since they go into great depth and kin of require a math course like discrete math to go through

there are other courses that dont go as much in detail and are better to get your footing initially i like books like grokking algorithms and a common sense guide to data structures and algorithms which should give you enough confidence to either go more into DSA or study for interviews for a general interview advice this post is good https://pittcs.wiki/zero-to-offer/ace-your-interview/

[polar forge]

FM, Maths, Physics and Comp Sci.

[modest cave]

Will that set me up for most courses at uni that involve comp sci/game development

[polar forge]

You can do Game Design on the side so no need to take that as an A-levels course. Thankfully, you don't have to take Chem.

[modest cave]

Thank god

[polar forge]

Most unis have great intro classes for CS. A-levels CS isn't really necessary.

Tons of CS majors go into college without coding experience.

[modest cave]

I've heard that Wawrick uni requires FM and CS tho

[polar forge]

This combo should be fine then.

[gilded valley]

Most colleges/schools don't let you take further maths but not maths
and it would be crazy to try and do so

[modest cave]

Alr then we have come to a conclusion, Maths, Further Maths, Physics and CS

Thanks guys💪

[earnest viper]

Can anyone recommend a good source to study DSA in python please

[smoky quest]

https://www.amazon.com/Introduction-Algorithms-fourth-Thomas-Cormen/dp/026204630X/ not specifically in python but a great resource nonetheless

[true harness]

probably wouldn't want to just read from the textbook, as it is quite dense. you could try mit opencourseware (specifically 6.006). also, the pins in #algos-and-data-structs have resources

[earnest viper]

ty I will check that out

[earnest viper]

TYSM! I found a book there, presently, through a glance, it looks brilliant! tysm again

[vapid jay]

thanks for your understanding. Definitely reading this tonight

[dark moon]

Lately I've been asking a lot of questions about getting scholarships, demonstrating leadership, and other best practices

All of this is dancing around one subject though, that I feel I should just ask bluntly

I'll be graduating in two to three years. I'm a later bloomer, a recovered alcoholic only now just getting my footing. Though I've got loads of exposure to code, I have very little to actually show for it.

What can I do to maximally prepare myself for entering the industry, to be the most attractive candidate possible, and the best employee/coworker possible?

Triple underline that last part

[rotund crest]

I have a late round interview for a Machine Learning Developer position and I know enough people at the company that tell me I have a pretty strong shot at getting an offer. I'm trying to gauge if it is worth switching industries for this if it will slow down my salary growth in the medium term. I kind of feel like at a more junior level, there is a vast sea of people that just take an IBM or Udemy course then try to get a job in this area. I kind of worry that that large applicant pool really hurts future salary growth without planning for another title change down the road.

[timid kernel]

Creating a portfolio of projects I think would help

[vapid jay]

I'm interested in AI and ROBOTICS both, and any other branch
but i heard from some ppl, that after u take a specialised branch, your job opportunity is narrowed down , for eg i did comp eng. with WEB dev., does that mean it'll be hard for me to get into Iot jobs?

[gritty rivet]

Just because your degree is specialized doesn't mean that's all you learn. If you're concerned that there aren't enough jobs in that particular field, work on other skills.
I'm not not sure how much this applies in India but here I would also say, look on LiinkedIn, find alumni, see how they're doing.

[elder beacon]

I have a job related question(am already a dev) but not sure if this the right place. I'll ask anyway. It's been 3 months into my first dev job and I've mainly been hurriedly cranking out crud apis because of looming deadlines. But as my team was making progress, we discovered that our architecture was quite flawed (controller, business logic and data handling layer are extremely tightly coupled making testing quite hard to do) . I've mainly focused on keeping to deadlines and trying my best with current architecture due to deadlines. Some of my coworkers have started refactoring things quite close to the deadline. My question is: what is the right thing to do here? Refactoring when the service is live is gonna be difficult so we should do some refactoring now but there is a deadline to stick to. Is there a good refactoring strategy I can follow/read?

[peak halo]

this is the correct channel (but I don't have an answer)

[agile turtle]

Guys i heard that there is some study institution that teaches people in computer science and after they get a job only then asks for the fees

Do you guys know any of that

[rotund crest]

Although they aren't strictly speaking a scam, I classify them as a scam and extremely predatory at best

[agile turtle]

really ?

Guys i need any kind of job badly

i am have been studying computer science for 3 years, my interest is machine learning

[vapid jay]

ok ty for helping ^_^

[vast shoal]

I would not make any dangerous changes close to a deadline. On the other hand, there's basically never going to be a "good" time to start refactoring, so I'd start by trying to find stuff that can be safely improved with relatively little effort and little impact on the rest of the system alongside the actual business functionality that needs to be added. Hopefully you have test coverage, so you don't need to worry about breaking existing functionality when you make changes. If you don't, I don't know what to tell you, refactoring a commercial system without tests sounds like blindly walking across a minefield.

[mellow gulch]

i have doubts related to FAANG

why do people aspire to join FAANG? Can I know the potential benefits

[coarse crag]

mostly it's the salary, they can pay you more than other smaller companies. other benefits could be (it depends on your country tho):

• better insurance coverage?
• it's a nice job experience you can put on your resume next time when you want to apply for another job. other companies can't really look down on you if you've worked at a FAANG company previously.
• (it depends on the company but) generally, since they are in tech industry, they provide good opportunities for learning. as in, better skill growth for your career. i don't think it's likely for you to be told to work on old codes with old tech stack that's too outdated (if you work in a FAANG company).

i think the benefits are pretty obvious

[smoky quest]

at their scale, they experience problems no one else can experience

[coarse crag]

but it does come with a cost probably, it's very competitive

[coarse crag]

ah right

[pulsar drum]

To me it seems these aspirations can be misguided. They're huge well-known companies and I guess that gets tied to some notion of success if one manages to work there.

If one works for some large B2B company a layperson has never heard of then that doesn't (or isn't perceived to) leave as much of an impression I suppose. It's not the only aspect of it, but I do think this sort of thing plays a part.

[summer roost]

Yeah. People aspire to join FAANG for the same reason as students aspire to MIT, Harvard, and Yale, basically: they're well-known. Pretty much the only thing that all the FAANG have in common is that they're relatively big tech companies that are also household names. They have very different engineering cultures, and they face different types of problems. Honestly, they're not even the same size of company; Netflix is 5x smaller than Facebook by both number of employees and by market cap.

and Apple and Google each have at least 3x the market cap and around 3x the employees of Facebook.

[smoky quest]

(also netflix does not hire juniors)

[coarse crag]

oooo i didn't know that

[summer roost]

I didn't know that, that's interesting.

[pulsar drum]

News to me as well. I wonder how unique that hiring practice is in the industry.

[smoky quest]

It's pretty unique.
They are taking a NBA approach

[pulsar drum]

As in, recruiting athletes from college leagues?

[smoky quest]

As in a professional team.
They are willing to pay up for a nice roaster but as soon as you have an injury or aren't performing, you are out (albeit with a nice severance)

[summer roost]

Note that Microsoft has around the same number of employees as Apple and Google, and has a higher market cap than any of the FAANG companies except Apple. The companies that make up FAANG are basically arbitrary; they were just Jim Cramer's pet stock picks for a while.

[smoky quest]

In practice, it does not necessarily goes like that though...

[pulsar drum]

Yes, it is perplexing that Netflix is there but not Microsoft.

[smoky quest]

Microsoft was playing catch up at the time

[pulsar drum]

I see. I don't know the historical context surrounding the creation of that acronym.

[smoky quest]

It could also be argued a lot of their dominance is due to their past predatory behavior and not necessarily the innovations they have brought on

Plus their culture did not match what was going on in the silicon valley where all the other faang come from

(minus amazon)

[pulsar drum]

That had more to do with location than with company age? Cause Apple is quite old too.

[smoky quest]

yeah. All of these are within 60 miles of each others. So lots of cross talk

[summer roost]

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/f/fang-stocks-fb-amzn.asp

[smoky quest]

even linkedin and other populars apps not on it like uber, pinterest, yahoo (I know...), nvidia, tesla, etc.

People go to the same meetups, they know each others, they have worked with each others, etc.

[summer roost]

and particularly https://www.cnbc.com/id/100436754 from 2013 is credited with bringing "FANG" into common parlance

[smoky quest]

that's a pretty aggressive preview

[smoky quest]

also for that reason, doing a tour for a few years in the silicon valley can help out your career

[coarse crag]

as in networking for career growth?

[smoky quest]

both

[summer roost]

and https://www.businessinsider.com/who-is-jim-cramer-2013-2 is concurrent with that CNBC link above.

Known for his zany on-screen antics and for yelling "Boo-yeah!," Cramer has dispensed stock market advice dressed as a baby, an executioner, and more recently, a hipster, complete with yellow pants and a fedora.

That's the guy who popularized "FANG". Why it stuck, who knows 😆

[smoky quest]

internships are a great way to get into it. Speaking from experience 😉

[coarse crag]

oooh i see 👍

[smoky quest]

it's so ridiculous that, let's say you live in Palo Alto, your kid would go to the same school as some other engineer working at Tesla. Or if you are at a private school, other parents would be execs at some other fancy company

[coarse crag]

i couldn't open that without a vpn 🤣

[coarse crag]

yeah

[coarse crag]

what would you recommend someone from a country that's not very ahead in technological advancement? try to chase after the faang companies? cause i don't think that there are lots of opportunities to learn, grow and meet people in here.

[smoky quest]

Apply for internships in the USA and then try to migrate closer to the bay area

[smoky quest]

Or try to get another diploma (ex: masters)

The main reason is the advantage it gives you in terms of VISA. Coming from outside for employment, most likely means H1B, which implies years long processes

But an internship goes through a J1 and studying goes through an OPT, which are easier to transform into H1B if you are in. (J1 is a bit more tricky though)

It helps reduce the waiting time for companies as they can employ you sooner rather than wait for months/years before you can even work

[coarse crag]

i see

[smoky quest]

If you are in a third world country or even 2nd world country, a good salary in the USA would be able to afford you to live comfortably and still be able to pay bills and even a maid for your family

[coarse crag]

yeah that's right. like, if i get even just 2k usd per month, i can afford a maid

[smoky quest]

you get multiples of that...

[coarse crag]

i know...

[smoky quest]

not gonna lie. I am not trying to sell you the dream. It's not easy to do it, but it does happen

[coarse crag]

i mean, it has been my goal, i'm trying to chase after it, but it's not like i'm gonna get depressed if i don't achieve it.

[smoky quest]

But if you are good, motivated and persistent, you could make it happen

and also lucky*

[coarse crag]

yeah, this is a pretty big factor

[smoky quest]

unfortunately, it have an outsized impact

[pulsar drum]

Are US companies more likely to hire from abroad for the more senior positions or is it about the same?

[smoky quest]

It depends. The US education is still shitty. So finding good candidates does require months of efforts

[pulsar drum]

Any idea what it's like in Europe? I have thought of trying to work there one day. But not sure what incentive they would have to higher someone from US over someone local who speaks the languages and is more integrated in the culture, that sort of stuff.

I guess it's a matter of what the talent pool is like there.

[smoky quest]

in terms of?

[pulsar drum]

In terms of the prospects of being hired as a non-EU person

[smoky quest]

It's doable.
A few USA people I know migrated there. But there is a strong dissonance between what people think of about Europe and how it actually is

There is some romanticism at play

[pulsar drum]

I just want to try it as a change of pace living in the US all the time. Maybe I'll like it maybe I won't. I would take the opportunity to try it if I could.

[smoky quest]

Saying "the EU" is also even more vague than saying the USA. Going to Seattle would be very different from going to Mountain View, which would be very different from going to the middle of Kansas. EU is the same but even worse as people living 50mi away might have spoken a different language and dressed differently 100 years ago

[pulsar drum]

Well I did have a specific country in mind since I can speak the language a little.

In any case I think there would be more differences between two countries than two cities within the same country, even for a country as large as the US.

[smoky quest]

That's true but even more so within the same country.

[elder beacon]

Okay thanks for the advice!

[misty canopy]

do anyone have any final year project ideas

??

[haughty lintel]

wtf is final year project?

[smoky quest]

yes I do. Any topic?

[smoky quest]

these are projects for your final year of school (ex: bs or ms)

[misty canopy]

for collage

[bold epoch]

What CS area are you interested in?

[uneven oar]

Is anyone here a pakistani studying abroad for a Software Engineering bachelor degree. Need some guidance on how the whole process is like and how many colleges I should apply to etc etc

[honest pivot]

It is quite doable, although I have a PhD and I came in via academia. Obviously the more specialized and in-demand your skills are, the better your odds. I think a tricky thing will be convincing them that you're serious. Write a thoughtful cover letter, maybe take some language courses if available.

[red barn]

what school and PhD in what

[honest pivot]

Physics, and I came to Europe after getting the PhD

[red barn]

so what do you do with python and physics

do you have a job now

[carmine rivet]

Hi everyone, I would like to ask you a question, I would like to become a desktop software developer but I don't know what training to do? Java, Python or C# ???

[vapid jay]

hi everyone! I have one simple question, I know some commands like print, but I wanna know how to learn python, like what do I use yt tutorial’s or?

[peak halo]

!resources

[inner wren]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[peak halo]

I suspect more desktop software is developed in Java and C# than in Python, but then, web apps are becoming a popular alternative to desktop software.

[carmine rivet]

What do you advise me to do?

[peak halo]

are you a public school student, university student, worker, or what?

[carmine rivet]

Online course

[glad shuttle]

what would be a basic roadmap to get a job in a foreign tech company

[buoyant seal]

become professional in your role
scan skills specifics in foreign companies present in requirements for your role, and learn it
learn at least English language, plus you can increase your chances by learning language native-dominated in the company besides English.

[dreamy spade]

apparently, companies use an A.I to firstly screen through resumes
So with that in mind, i need to use keywords to pass the algorithms.

[buoyant seal]

upload to indeed your resume

it scores u in terms of those words and recommends missing ones (not all of them recommends in free version though)

[native narwhal]

Regarding a Python Backend Developer role:
My qustion after learning html/css/js basics and haven't even done any Front End projects since it is off putting to me I want to move on to learning the backend but when the time comes for me to go to a job - do I have to know Front End? It is very hard to answer this questions without any experience

[near ocean]

It'd be good if you had some idea of the technologies used, yes

[native narwhal]

There are things that I should do because mainstream dictates most jobs are in web development but even after spending several months learning the fundamentals etc I am willing to toss it aside since to me testing using Python looks A LOT more fun

I need to spend a day or two researching how demanded is it - and also what are this things like Selenium and Webdriver that you use with Python to do the testing
and lastly I hope I am not getting myself a head of anything but I really hope Testing with Python is not something you learn after you work as software engineer like the wanting for snow before winter even came 😛

[buoyant seal]

Testing with selenium/web driver is completely not essential and rarely used unless u a QA

People just use Unit and integration testing in pytest

[native narwhal]

this is confusing

[buoyant seal]

Read about Unit testing best principles and practices by Vladimir Khorikov. He explains greatly in detail

[buoyant seal]

Wishing for snow before winter came, is one out of several ways to approach it. It has the power to make u thinking how to write code with good architecture for being tested. U think what u wish to get in result in advance, what to test, then u write main code

Nice strategy for newbies to write sufficient quality code

[delicate bane]

i think germany would be cool, also speaking as a US person

[delicate bane]

or unittest

[buoyant seal]

I think unittest is justified being used only in libraries without third party dependencies where u don't wish to separate dev deps

In small one file scripts it is justified

[delicate bane]

i mean i use pytest myself, just wanted to mention it

[vapid jay]

hey my buddy who is getting let go from his it security job, any advice for him or leads on where to look for next job? US

[languid robin]

My salary range is almost guaranteed to go up either way but route 2 seems like the ceiling is much higher

[peak halo]

!warn 185949049940082688 This is not a meme-posting server. Please be sure to respect the topic for each channel.

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @unkempt shale.

[gritty rivet]

The answer entirely depends on you and your preferences. To me it sounds like you're only considering job #2 because it's a bigger company. If that's true, it's not a very good reason unless that is very important to you personally

[languid robin]

I’m considering both equally

Because I like rdb instead of NoSql

[patent grove]

it would be a data engineer role, california, level 1

im asking like if they offer around 90-95k, should i counter offer and say i want more?

[languid robin]

When you grad?

[gritty rivet]

That sounds pretty reasonable. If you counter, you should ideally have a reason

[patent grove]

so this is kinda weird i have a full year til graduation, but i will be working part time on a 75-80k salary thru the year

then after i graduate i will get the full time which will be higher than 80k+

[languid robin]

Experience during college like that sounds very nice

[gritty rivet]

It doesn't usually hurt to counter if you're a strong candidate, but there's always a certain risk they will reneg the offer

[patent grove]

yeah he said i can argue above 80k after i graduate because then i will have a year experience as a data engineer

counter offers arent terrible though right? I can just ask nicely if they can do it and the worst they can say is no?

or could i just completely ruin my offer and they can deny me?

[smoky quest]

As long as you are able to justify it beyond "give me more".
Also California is a big state. Sacramento will pay differently from the bay area, which itself will be different from LA

[patent grove]

like what should i say exactly i mean cost of living is a huge one in the bay for sure but im prob going to be living with my parents for a year after graduation

the job is based in miami but its completely remote

[languid robin]

During the next 6 months start applying to jobs

[smoky quest]

what will be your location?

[languid robin]

And see if you can get a offer better

[patent grove]

they told me that for data engineer 1 in cali has a base salary of 70-80k which i dont believe...do you guys?

[languid robin]

No that’s not possible

[patent grove]

it will be san jose

[gritty rivet]

They don't need to know you're living with your parents. Simply pointing out inflation and cost of living is fine, especially given that you have an established relationship with them. You can judge better then we can what that relationship is like

[smoky quest]

The standard range for entry level engineers with a degree in the bay area would be closer to 120k cash (plus RSU/Options, etc.)

[languid robin]

People don’t usually get a chance to start as a DE thought

[patent grove]

120k TC though right? not base salary? @gritty rivet and yeah true

[smoky quest]

no, just the base salary

[gritty rivet]

Check for data. Glassdoor or levels.io or whatever

[smoky quest]

Do you have other offers in your pipeline?

[vapid jay]

i wanna do coding intern, what languages should i learn?

[patent grove]

this company doesnt really have that much data online for the position, its not a tech company but its a huge home construction company

[patent grove]

no other offers rn

[smoky quest]

If I remember, you are still in school doing stuff part time. So for now don't worry about that but do look around once you graduate

[true harness]

look at requirements of internships you're interested in. then pick one and learn it

[gritty rivet]

I'm more just saying that you should be able to confirm the figure that recrusive_error gave. If there is publicly available data saying that, then it means you should feel confident asking for another 20k

[vapid jay]

alr cool thanks

[languid robin]

If just worry about learning and improving your skills atm

Instead of salary, salary will come after

[patent grove]

i think python is def one that you should look for. a lot of jobs want it and i would use it for job interviews cuz of its simplicity

[peak halo]

well, we're going to tell you to learn python. but learning a language is actually the easy part--you have to learn how to do the kinds of things that you would do in that internship.

[patent grove]

yeah very true tbh, people are saying im lucky for even getting this type of offer while in school

[smoky quest]

indeed.
And note also that since you are still at school, you wouldn't be able to ask for the same rates as someone who has completed school

[patent grove]

thats exactly what he said lmaoo very good point

okay ig i dont feel so bad, i can ask for more after i graduate ig

[steady junco]

In what grade are you?

[patent grove]

im 4th year going into my 5th year

im double majoring, completed 1 degree already just got like 2 more quarters left

[steady junco]

Ok, and when do you end classes?

[patent grove]

In March

[glad shuttle]

does linkedin not ask for birthday year?

[true harness]

i thought they did, don't they require you to be 18 or something

[lilac anchor]

Hello... as a backend do I need to learn html css and JS?

[smoky quest]

no you do not.
However, the more you know about how your APIs are used, the better you can make sure they are solving your users' problems

[lilac anchor]

I just getting confused many companies looking for backend and also they add html and css of required skills hmm maybe it's only a plus

[smoky quest]

It's most likely a plus

because html/css/js are frontend development and outside of backend

[lilac anchor]

Yes, I'm still learning backend and still focusing in python and SQL for now. I just thought if I should learn those after.

[crude moon]

Agree its most likely a plus. As a backend dev, you do not strictly need to know html and css, but you will often need to do some in a job. Could be for an internal tool the company is using, or for some monitoring they have built for their backend. You usually don't need to know it to the level of a front end dev, a small bit should do.

[peak snow]

Does anyone here know how exactly is cloud server made from scratch like what kind of devices are used?

Like for example, a cloud game servers etc

[vapid jay]

a computer connected to the internet 💀

[brave matrix]

I want to find an internship at a startup or a very small company, is there a website that shows job posting for small scale companies ?

I had a look on linkding and glassdoor and 99% of the job postings have at least 500 emplyees

[coarse crag]

cloud server and "server" in general is just the same (if you're talking about the physical devices). they are a computer device that's connected to the internet where you can store/operate data in it. the main difference between a "cloud" and normal server is that you don't own the server devices if it's a cloud. you don't need to take care of the physical devices, BUT you have to pay to a "cloud service provider" who's managing your data in your stead.

its just the same as housing. for example. you live in an apartment but you do not own the apartment. someone else is renting it to you and you pay them rent. that's a cloud service provider. they rent out their storages and computing devices. (possibly other types of services too)

i don't think that's related to career tho

[coarse crag]

you can turn your computer/laptop into a server btw. idk how, never tried it before, but you can do it. there are tutorials online on how to create a server.

[stoic timber]

For security you’d run the server from a VM (or even better, but bit harder container) and yeah not a career question

[merry pond]

anyone knows how I can add a research group to my position on linkedin? E.g. I want to say "Harvard" or whatever as my employer but then specify what research group I worked for.

[peak snow]

Yeah lol I was soo curious about that

[peak snow]

Thanks for the info

[mossy tide]

helllo

[peak snow]

Apply online on maybe the sites of the company you prefer

[vital silo]

Guys which website job boards would you recommend to search remote jobs that applies to European candidates ?

[brave matrix]

But how do you find startup companies ?

[peak snow]

I remember one of my sibling friends, he badly wanted an intern to add to his resume while he was perusing his degree, he applied for 20 companies but got selected only on 4💀

[gritty rivet]

Angel list, y combinator, places like that

[brave matrix]

4 our of 20 is a good ratio these days

[peak snow]

He works as a software dev now on google💀

[brave matrix]

oh damn

[peak snow]

HARD WORK

[brave matrix]

my man is making millions then

[peak snow]

I honestly think that I'll be extremely bad at interviews even if I'm excellent at coding because of my bad communication skills

[brave matrix]

whats your github ?

my social skills kinda suck as well, so im thinking of taking a few of those pills that calm you down before the interview, so at least I wont be nervous lol
but then I'll give the impression I just finished somking some weed

[gritty rivet]

So practice!

Being bad at something is an opportunity to grow: https://www.mindsethealth.com/matter/growth-vs-fixed-mindset

[balmy mural]

Interviewing is a skill on its own. As you do more interviews and get the practice you'll get used to it, nerves will settle down and you'll get better at them

[brave matrix]

makes sense

[lofty ingot]

hey guys, is there anyone here who’s working in a neuroscience/cognitive science related area? i’m curious how coding or python specifically is used, i’m still in college and want to know which skills are required! (sorry if this is not the right place)

[south badger]

Yo what am i supposed to do

[vapid jay]

I’m from india and I’m 20 years old , most students reach a university at the age of 18 here and those who are good go to good govt colleges with good campus placements in Multinational companies , however I couldn’t go to a college due to some tough irl circumstances which hindered my education , I am finally going to a private university which is no where as good as the top Govt universities , however my plan is to develop my data science and maths skills ,and do many internships and do projects and keep myself busy and develop my portfolio so I can get a good campus placement on par with my high school friends because it really pains me to see my condition and being behind them in life because I know my own capabilities and where I stand and that’s why my question is , will this approach somewhat guarantee me a good salary and life up ahead ? please ping me when you reply

[shadow sable]

GREETINGS! Future Natural Language Processing Engineer here! By way of self teaching! 😊 manifesting my goals over here…
I’ve been on my self taught road for about four months now and I would like to know if there is ANYONE out there who is professionally working with NATURAL LANGUAGE PROCESSING? I would love to pick your brain regarding your favorite latest practices in the field and perhaps if I’m implementing the right procedures in my beginner project.
Or does anyone know of a specific NLP forum I should ask my question on?
Any guidance would be insanely appreciated 😊🙏🏾😊🙏🏾

Overall I’m just happy to have found Python and coding.
I’m happy to be on this journey! As rough as it may be sometimes 🙏🏾

[near ocean]

You'll probably have more luck asking your specific questions in #data-science-and-ml

[vapid jay]

Me ?

[near ocean]

The person above me asking about NLP opinions

[vapid jay]

Ok

[vapid jay]

Yeh?

?

[peak snow]

no matter what you learn,When you learn or in what collages, if you are extremely skilled in your plans then you'll have a High chance of getting a good job!

To get a good job don't necessarily mean you'll have to study in high end collages

If you're pursuing your degree then try doing interns cause companies tends to need a good resume

And if you're from the coding community participate in hackathons!

[delicate bane]

this was interesting to see

[peak snow]

[delicate bane]

there was another chart about CS phd's that was even more interesting to see

but i dont want to be accused of chart-spamming

[graceful mason]

@peak halo

[shadow sable]

Thanks for the referral! Stelercus was already very helpful in another forum. This is such a great community 🙏🏾😊

[tidal gazelle]

Is it absolutely necessary to do computer science in high school (o-levels or a-levels) to become a software engineer?

[pastel quail]

no, but they can only help

[tidal gazelle]

Would that answer be applicable to all/most universities?

Oh also I meant for a software engineering university, not a job

[gilded valley]

what country are you in?

[tidal gazelle]

I'm looking at Australia

[gilded valley]

it's quite specific on a country-by-country basis. e.g in the UK, a CS A-level is probably valued significantly less than most other STEM A-levels for getting into software engineering courses at university

[tidal gazelle]

Do you know anything about Australian universities? One can get into the university by not taking CS for A levels? (Although maybe add that they took ICT for O-level)

[tidal gazelle]

Additionally do job recruiters consider this heavily

[vapid jay]

Please , how do i decode a t0ken into OTI0N

[tidal gazelle]

That doesn't seem a question for this channel. Is that related to python?

[vapid jay]

Yes

[tidal gazelle]

Then try opening a help channel, you can read more in #❓｜how-to-get-help

[dense mesa]

Not the case with a level CS

[tidal gazelle]

can you elaborate?

[dense mesa]

You could consider doing as much maths as possible, then loosely following a CS curriculum online or do your own projects

[tidal gazelle]

I do practice coding seperately

I do ICT at school (did it for o-levels) but not CS

[dense mesa]

This is UK specific, but taking a level computer science to try and get into CS at uni is a hindrance more than anything

[tidal gazelle]

yeah i know math is good for the algorithms and problem solving though

[dense mesa]

You'll be learning things in a slightly incorrect way, instead of spending that valuable time on something else

[tidal gazelle]

So basically me not having taken CS for A-levels is not at all bad and won't effect anything on the path to a SE uni/job right?

[dense mesa]

Idk the case for Australia, maybe it's a requirement there

Realistically it shouldn't affect uni applications, as long as you can demonstrate some interest

[tidal gazelle]

Would there be a reliable website for that information?

[dense mesa]

University requirements pages and contacting the admissions offices themselves

[gilded valley]

You should go and look at websites for the courses and universities that you're interested in - they will have better information than people from a different country

[crystal wren]

Hello guys, to get job in programming is very challenging ? or impossible to get without cs degree

[lime tartan]

Do y'all think volunteering to develop better SQL experiences is a viable option than of going to a bootcamp?

[delicate bane]

this is very situation-dependent as many different factors need to be weighed against each other since there are tradeoffs to make. keep in mind, you probably dont want to solely volunteer to improve your SQL skills as you can probably learn a significant amount on your own

[lime tartan]

true but at the same time, having something ~professional~ on my resume is more of a qualifier than of personal projects or self-learning

[near ocean]

Volunteering is not professional, at least imho, however competitive
Unless youre getting paid to do the work i wouldnt call it professional experience

[lime tartan]

the discrepancy between paid and nonpaid experiences is null except for total time spent on the experience

where a full-time position is 40 hrs per week, volunteering is like 5 or 10 hrs

[near ocean]

Why would time matter but pay not? If youre volunteering for 40 hours doing dishes and getting coffees I wouldnt exactly count that as valuable experience
Volunteers dont usually get any important tasks/responsibilities

The more money some company is willing to part with to have you the higher the chances what youre doing is of value and worth listing

[lime tartan]

true, it honestly depends on the place and the amount they trust you. I volunteered at a hospital lab once during the summer and at first it was just doing simple inventory cataloging but after a month or so they gave me more like expense invoicing and performance reviews

[near ocean]

If there ever was a single metric to give your experience value/credibility is how much other people are willing to pay you to do the job

[lime tartan]

additionally it seems like i cant land a CS job, i have a bio/chem background so it seems i either have to self-teach, acquire an associates, or be creative like maybe volunteering

[near ocean]

Theres a couple of staffers here with chemistry/physics/eng backgrounds that got into a software job, its not impossible
You should practice your programming and try to build some projects using your bio/chem knowledge

Visualizations usually work the best, theyre visually better than other types of projects, they have wow factor

[lime tartan]

physics/eng backgrounds already have some of the educational prerequisites making the transition easier

personally i would like to do more data analysis

[near ocean]

bio and chem should have the some educational prerequisites, how would you do a bio bachelors without bioinformatics?

Computational modelling exists in all and any engineering disciplines

[delicate bane]

i think theres plenty of opportunities in the data space for career changers

especially if its an industry where you can leverage your domain knowledge

[delicate bane]

i think if you enjoy the volunteering experience outside of just using it as a place to practice SQL + you do some self-teaching/build a good portfolio, you can probably go that route

if data analyst is your goal

[hearty island]

is it normal for a company to ask for an SSN during the application?

[lime tartan]

yes if its only asking for your last 4 ssn #'s, its meant to develop a profile in their systems, i personally use my last 4 digits of my phone number instead

[hearty island]

got it

[lime tartan]

this is a very condense version of my educational and work experiences. Objectively i would enjoy either business analyst or data analyst

obviously i would need to do some work on my end

[tidal gazelle]

For a software engineer job, generally does university matter much?

[near ocean]

Not that much no

[vapid jay]

Hi! I want to know to what point or standard should a programmer realize they are ready to apply? Would it be when the programmer is able to answer any question? And what type of projects should someone make if they want to be recognised?

[tidal gazelle]

And are coding interviews online done for most jobs recruitment?

[pastel quail]

no one’s gonna be able to answer every question. you’re ready for a job when you meet most of the requirements. as for the projects, i don’t know specifically, but if they’re related to the job that’s probably good

[vapid jay]

How does a programmer's CV look like?

Is it usually better to make your own website for your resume/portfolio?

or is that just a plus?

[delicate bane]

the elements for a good resume are there. its all about how you tell your story and tailor the language accordingly + having top-notch projects. it can be a bit competitive so you might need some things to set you apart from others.

i had one friend who successfully transitioned from a job at thermo fisher to data analyst, but it wasnt easy

[vapid jay]

How would a programmer set their CVs up prior to having no personal experience and assuming the individual did not go to university?

[delicate bane]

but his exp was similar to yours

[pastel quail]

same as other people, just without those parts

[lime tartan]

if i was in his position I would have tried to internally transfer within thermo because theyre so vast and diverse in opportunities

[delicate bane]

he couldnt for various reasons

[lime tartan]

gotcha

[delicate bane]

but yeah i wouldve too

[vapid jay]

what's a thermo fisher?

[lime tartan]

i recognize some of the more transferable skillsets each position teaches me

[vapid jay]

finding heat?

[lime tartan]

thermo is a giant pharma company

[lime tartan]

https://www.thermofisher.com/us/en/home.html

[delicate bane]

sounds like you understand that then; for now, i would focus on the hard skills of sql + data viz tool, python is a plus.

[vapid jay]

oh wow, probably earns a bank

[lime tartan]

is English not your first language?

[vapid jay]

It is

[delicate bane]

and demonstrating those skills through some good projects. then i think you would be in a good place for interviews

[vapid jay]

I was just saying if you work at a pharmaceutical company . Most people earn lots of money.

[delicate bane]

ehhh debatable

[vapid jay]

when i say 'earns a bank', i'm trying to say he earns a lot of money.

[lime tartan]

yeah thats the plan but maybe i need to find a position within healthcare/pharma i want to acquire then find projects that'll reflect my capabilities in the field?

[delicate bane]

thats another strategy as well. could leverage your domain knowledge

[bold portal]

Hi

[lime tartan]

i figure that's my best bet to be successful

[delicate bane]

only thing is it would limit you to that industry, and im not sure if that industry has as many remote opportunities

yeah give it a shot and you can always reassess accordingly

[lime tartan]

im not sure tbh if theyre dense in remote work

[delicate bane]

def worth looking into at the very least

[slim plover]

Hi I try to make a application. All works but when I run it when longer tasks it need for working the window frozen. I made the application with PyQt5

[lime tartan]

i was contacted about a temp business analyst position with thermo but didnt work out because i didnt have the necessary experience/education

[delicate bane]

oof

[bold portal]

there are help channels

[slim plover]

Oh sorry I’m new on this server

[bold portal]

no worries , me too!

[south badger]

U takin iit mate

[lime tartan]

@delicate bane this is honestly the most preferred job i can acquire

except for working for the fed gov

I tried developing a study tracking software for my current work but was shot down hardcore because they prefer theyre way which is archaic excel and email

[fluid walrus]

hi

[untold relic]

hey guys, is the harvard cs50 difficult and would i be a ble to finish it in a month with 3+ hours of coding everyday. (i have no prior knowledge of programing).

[hearty island]

i've been reading business analytics book in hopes of figuring this stuff out

[lime tartan]

whatcha reading?

[hearty island]

business intelligence: the savvy manager's guide

[lime tartan]

what's your opinion on it?

[hearty island]

i like it, i think it's clearing up some things for me. still unclear on what exactly should be in my portfolio to get hired as an intern in the field

[lime tartan]

to get hired as an intern would generally require you to be enrolled into something

internships are meant for students

[hearty island]

oh i'm in business analytics in college

[lime tartan]

ask your professor for their opinion on your problem, maybe search the internet for the answer

[hearty island]

i've searched, i'll ask my prof once the sem starts

[delicate bane]

thats good. gl dude.

[lime tartan]

one of my drafts from a long while ago

[bold portal]

as having a partner working with recruiting

having an unrealistic, way to fancy written "letter" wont really get you the job

It's like, both partners of the contract are aware that you're just shattering.

[summer roost]

"shattering"?

[elder ledge]

someone italian??

[brave matrix]

che ce?

[vapid jay]

Does writing web automation scripts to do rudimentary/simple tasks qualify you as someone who can script with/write automation in python?

How deep should I be into automate boring stuff to be a python scripter

[gritty rivet]

It depends on where you live, what other skills and experience you have, etc.

The best way to get an understanding of this is to start looking at job listings. If you see any openings you might be even vaguely qualified for, apply for them. If you're lucky enough to get some technical interviews or not, you'll start to understand where you stand.

[delicate bane]

oh bro youre going for cybersec? you should seriously consider obtaining the Sec+ certificate and competing in some of those cybersec competitions. my prof highly recommends those 2 things, at least for entry-level security positions in the states

if you place high, its a really good signal for employers

he had 2 of his former students get high-paying jobs at a certain famous cybersec company

this was just last semester

[delicate bane]

np. the company was

btw

[vapid jay]

Nope

[dense abyss]

W

[tidal gazelle]

Generally, which 3 subjects does one who intends to be a software engineer take for A-levels?

[royal olive]

should I still use Python (which is Python 2) for leetcode problems?

[smoky quest]

It's a combination of:

• What the interview let you use
• What you feel comfortable with
• What signal do you send

While no harm would be done, doing interviews with python 2 would signal you haven't kept up with technology for the past decade

[gilded valley]

Leetcode has python 3

[near ocean]

Maths, Further Maths, Physics (and probably another stem alevel, I did chemistry)

[tidal gazelle]

Also i have the the option to do 3. Is doing 3 better than 4, overall?

I assume further math would be very difficult

[near ocean]

Doing three usually means you need better grades in them, eg A*A*A vs A*AAA

[tidal gazelle]

Did you do further math? How was it?

[near ocean]

It was hard but I didnt exactly study much for it which is entirely my bad

It's necessary however, imo anyway and pretty fun

[tidal gazelle]

Further math is necessary?

[near ocean]

When I did it it was back when they had individual modules still, I did M3-6 and then FP1 &FP2

If youre going into one of these russel group unis yes i would say its necessary

[tidal gazelle]

oh okay. Looking at Australia and it says mathematics extension 1. What does this mean?

[hollow seal]

Hello python Discord, Im struggling on choosing what to learn next. I learnt python as my first programming language, but Im not sure what to learn next. I'd like to work at Google or something similar later on as a software engineer, but Im not quite sure how to go about this. I know python is one of the languages they want, but Im not as interested in AI/ML, so I though of learning Javascript, but JS looks to be mostly Front end from what I can tell. so Im not sure what would actually be beneficial, I have learnt Html and CSS, so should I learn JS? or something like Java, or C?

[near ocean]

maybe you should stop thinking about where you want to work and start thinking about what you want to work on

[smoky quest]

If you want to work at google or a faang, the easiest path is to make sure you get the grades to go to college/university and get a CS degree. Then it will make it easier to get an internship or a job there

[worn stream]

Hmm... On what can I crash a program consisting of 15 lines? On for counts in range(50): with the reason that for is a str

👎

[near ocean]

try asking in a help channel

[worn stream]

I don't need help, I'm probably dumb. Just a weird bug

[near ocean]

regardless, this is #career-advice

[hollow seal]

thats a good point, but at the moment its still Software development. That or Web Development, but Im still leaning towards software development

[near ocean]

web development is software development

[hollow seal]

alright, but what else can I do in the meantime?

[near ocean]

I would suggest learning more about programming and tech in general

[smoky quest]

have fun and learn things.
Make a mobile app, a robot, some backend, some streaming stuff, play with blender or godot, etc. Learn how things fit together and build a culture of CS

[hollow seal]

Okay, I'll do that then

I did do Robotics for a few years back in middleschool, and I was trying to learn blender but thats on hold as Im on a laptop rn

Thank you for the advice, in the meantime, I will learn Javascript, but I'll just try learning more in general

[smoky quest]

just do it.
The point is to go wide and see what's out there. Even make presentations with powerpoint/libreoffice or some newspaper.

Install Fedora or Ubuntu and learn about Linux and how OSes work (and get administered)

[hollow seal]

Ah

I run Arch linux btw

[smoky quest]

it's a good start

[hollow seal]

Alright, thank you for the advice, I particularly like the mobile app Idea, but I'll just learn as much as I can. I havent really done much backend before, so that should be interesting enough

[vapid jay]

Is it realistic to want very good coding skills from a graduate?

can a 13 yr old intermediate python programmer make money?
through working for companies

[buoyant seal]

Can u expect very good coding skills from a graduate, and having graduate already participated in multiple opensource / pet projects of a relatively acceptable quality?
Sure, you can
But I think it is less than 1 out of 30-50 graduates 🤔

[vapid jay]

Exactly. Im intermediate, but people in my class for example barely pass the lessons, let alone know how to properly code

[buoyant seal]

Despite being realstic or not, people wish to have workers already bringing value to development process.
To low enough positions, hundreds of candidates wish to be in.
It takes... skill and luck to get pass all those other people. Or just to find lucky enough place where you would be taken even if u have skill above necessary treshold

[near ocean]

No

[buoyant seal]

In any case, any level of skill is always not sufficient. It is a never ending marathon to be better. And longer you are in this marathon, then more u become really desired professional

[vapid jay]

Yeah its a huge challenge. And very demoralising

[vapid jay]

Appereantly some guys told me here thst tech stack and skills isnt even that suprr important since youll be learning bunch more languages as you switch jobs and youll forgrt the old ones

[near ocean]

Not entirely false

[buoyant seal]

I think it is true only after few years of first commercial programming experience. In the beginning you are stuck with one programming language in my opinion.
And despite it being true that 90% of skills are transferable between different technologies, you are still required to learn those first example of technologies to which you don't know any alternatives yet. Learning them to a deep level. Then it becomes easily transferable skill

like
Python -> And how to test / architecture code
Postgresql -> and all this SQL related stuff
Elastic Search -> And how to use it as logging or search engine system to db
Celery/kafka -> And just those meesage queue / tools for event driven architecture

Once you gain experience in using the first tool in its category, sure, it becomes more transferable to be used with any other alternative from same category. But until that. not really.
And even despite that, recruiters would be still looking for people matching in technology stack first, because if person already knows it, it shortens learning curve time, makes person a bit more time effective.

[vapid jay]

Should I hold myself up to a standard to have significant experience despite being a graduate? As you said they sound like expereinces you can have after working for a few years at least

[buoyant seal]

U can really have experience of a high level only after working few years at least. Yes.
But you still should train yourself, participate in open source, pet projects, whatever, to gain experience in it as quick as possible. As it would improve your chances to get first job with it.
U need being able to sell yourself well enough to recruiters to get a job? 🤔 Usually in resume it would be really obvious that u are novice in those languages, even if u write u are experienced. Nobody would accept you being experienced, if you don't prove it with some projects.

[vapid jay]

Yeah. I have three decent projects and recruiters like those ones.

[near ocean]

You cant, when people talk about experience they usually mean professional experience, not played around with something in their own time
I would never say I have reactjs experience even tho i've put together a couple of react apps

[vapid jay]

That sounds much more meaningful. I have to agree as well. I think commercial experience is much more deeper than doing a short course and putting together an app or smth

[near ocean]

Best you can do as a graduate is get some hobbyist experience building personal projects and try to up your leetcode game

[vapid jay]

We dont have leetcode here. So Im trying to learn all the details of a language for example cuz they ask that stuff. Or plain coding.

[near ocean]

Wdym you dont have leetcode there

[buoyant seal]

xD we don't have so far leetcoding as well. Thanks god. Only 2-3 jobs interviewed me with leetcoding out of 20

low enough amount to skip grinding leetcoding in my opinion

[vapid jay]

UK is based in terms of interviews.

[honest pivot]

I have done so much leetcoding in interviews the last few weeks. I think it depends very much on where you apply.

[vapid jay]

Did you apply to big companies. I go with med size no names.

Not like Visa, Ocado etc.

[honest pivot]

I'm looking at quant funds and fintech, yeah

[near ocean]

Visa and ocado are mid sized no names?
Oh i just misread that

[languid robin]

Should I join a company that’s stable, looks good on a resume, higher pay ceiling, but won’t be able to focus on my current favorite skills unless I switch projects after a year.

Or join this other company that has lower pay ceiling but I can gain experience with Aws services, use my skills, and learn what I think could be more transferrable skills?

Let’s just say for the 2nd option i would want to hop after a year

And would be able to work for a year securely

That’s probably true

[near ocean]

big company doesnt mean good people, skilled devs, or respectful colleagues

some of the biggest companies out there have the biggest scandals when it comes to workplace culture

why

[languid robin]

Let’s just say bankruptcy isn’t an issue

My end goal is to hop to a faang

You are 11 lol?

[near ocean]

why would a small company go bankrupt lol

also sorry to say youre not qualified to be giving career advice if youre 11 or even be on discord

[languid robin]

That’s sick, get started early you’ll do great things

[near ocean]

im not being toxic lol, how could you possibly know what the workplace is like to give career advice

[languid robin]

My main dilemma is the skills -
Option 1 is working with NoSql/elasticsearch
Option 2 is working with sql/pyspark/Aws tools/NoSql

[buoyant seal]

U aren't owner or investor. There are no risks for Dev to be in small company.

A bit could be issue if u would need quicker looking for new job.
But also advantage that in small companies u a often given more responsibilities and quicker skill growth if u independent in your studies enough

[languid robin]

Every company is risky

[near ocean]

my guy i dont care if youre a wizard, if you havent worked a day in your life you shouldnt be giving work advice

[languid robin]

But for a fact option 1 is less risky for a very long period of time

Just cause I understand the domain and research I can confidently assure this on my end

[near ocean]

theres more important things to consider when looking at roles to decide from,
what about office size, team size, office style, company culture, alongside other benefits

[buoyant seal]

Second option looks better. Salary becomes more with your skills. Easier to find next job with transferable skills.
Choosing second option, u invest into getting your career faster, better, higher paid

As long as u have money pillow, second is great.
U can always change job in one-two years for more paid one after that

If u a in situation where can less afford risk to get better career, then first option

[languid robin]

I have great skills right now and have multiple offers, I can agree the skills for option2 would let me bounce with like 20k + pay raise

The way option1 works is - after a year you try to leave and they give you a raise everytime

[buoyant seal]

Consider this, during company with higher payment and less skill growth,
Can u feel that u will meet your learning goals in your free time?
If yes, then makes sense to go for higher paid. More money always good too

[buoyant seal]

If u have really great skills and easy job finding, may be it is time more earning than learning.

[languid robin]

I think my skills are great in dba/database design/sql .. I’m still trying to learn Python right now .. if I learn Python and pyspark and enough to pass interviews than I could go into 180k range base probably

[buoyant seal]

US?

[languid robin]

Yea

I was offered 120k +8k relocation for option 1
Option 2 is 115k full remote

[gloomy compass]

mainly python, c, js, java and maybe Rust

[buoyant seal]

I think just dba/database design/SQL is not safe career option. Yes it is important and will always be part of development, but it is transformed with more DevOps culture and technologies.

People would better seek a person who is backend developer that does it, together with control versioning tools like Flyway/Luquidbase/or migrating libraries specific to some language. (Like python and its Alembic library)

It will probably remains a long time around anyway. Everything of old dies long

[hybrid night]

Python engineer vs Python developer?

[balmy spade]

They are the same image.

[languid robin]

I was given the advice that as a data engineer it would be better to understand the functionality of Python instead of programming

[hybrid night]

Lmao

[balmy spade]

I'm not sure I understand the difference between understanding python and understanding how to program with python.

In this specific statement, anyway.

[buoyant seal]

Anyway, for DBa person I think it makes sense to develop yourself into backend developer. DB high level skillset is often requirement there.

Optionally it could make sense learning DevOps, to wield databases in form of infrastructure too.

Only briefly familiar with Data engineer path, but as far as I can understand it is something of Hybrid between being Software Engineer / Database expert / Building ETL pipelines/transforming data / partially DevOps engineer skills as well to build those data pipelines

Sure. Looks like an option too I think

[languid robin]

I think I could learn pyspark on my own, it seems like that’s not gonna be restricted by work experience ..

[balmy spade]

Okay, random meeting interrupted my thought. It's important, when programming, to understand the language you are using. This helps you develop and shift your ability to design solutions to the problems at hand. I'm not entirely certain how only learning the functionality of python without the programming aspect is helpful. Unless it's a general Product Owner view of "how can this tool be used" instead of "how do I use this tool"?

[sand rivet]

yo sup

[buoyant seal]

It kind of does not make sense and makes sense at the same time.

True level of using language is learned only when using it as Software Engineer. Carrying about having hierarchy of dependencies in the code, having it clean coded and well architectured and tested.

There are cases when people like data scientists learn domain specific ecosystem though.
Same I guess true for data engineers. Except they go into building data pipelines

In any case it is still important to learn generic software engineering skills during language usage (even if it is not main requirement in current job specialization). Not just having field/domain specific knowledge

Generic software engineering skills are most stable and transferable

[hybrid night]

i still cant figure out how to open 2 files at once, and me hopeing to find a job..

[sand rivet]

legend

[buoyant seal]

Technically machine learning people do it. They just learn ML functionality /ecosystem of python

[balmy spade]

They still need to learn programming though. I get it, it's a specialized application, but it's still programming.

[buoyant seal]

I mean, they can often even being not knowing how to write a function

[balmy spade]

I'm specialized in APIs. Couldn't tell you two lines of functional code toward ML, AI, or even turtle. But I'm still a programmer.

[buoyant seal]

Backend devs are required do learn software engineering aspect of programming. Our code goes large and requires to be remaining maintainable in those conditions

Same for desktop/mobile/OS/embedded devs
All are programmers

[buoyant seal]

I am not sure how well it is applicable to hybrid roles like data scientist. Who need to be mathematicians first instead of SWE. Surely nice if they learned SWE stuff, but in which capacity do they really need?

[tidal gazelle]

What are some things you can add to your resume for a software engineering job?

[balmy spade]

My issue is drawing a line saying they are learning concepts not programming. They are learning both. The systems team that deploys the company-wide onprem system updates via a cluster of ansible, bash, and python scripts aren't any less "programmers" than my team who build midwares between platforms. We just have a different focus. A different goal.

When you start trying to define Senior to Junior and all the pay-roll concerned titles or what responsibilities one might have, okay. That's where lines get drawn.

[buoyant seal]

Well said.

[red pagoda]

i have 3hours of spare time everyday. what should spend it on. python or web development

[buoyant seal]

I agree, all this YAML developing is different kind of development as well, requiring to know different infrastructure specific concepts. And different infra Language concepts

They just don't learn programming in terms of fully fledged programming language beyond simple scripting usually.

Some do anyway though. DevOps/SRE in terms of Google vision is just another software dev with infra focus

[gilded valley]

Working in McDonald's or a supermarket

[buoyant seal]

Python is 10% of backend web development.
Python + generic SWE skills are 90% of backend web development.
Backend web development is around 30% of web development.

[red pagoda]

im thinking of api's and you know python dev

web dev is cool but its not really applying.

[buoyant seal]

That is backend web development

[red pagoda]

html and css and bit Javascript script would be enough for a 0 backend website and thats all i was thinking

[tidal gazelle]

Also for someone looking to be a software engineer, does the amount of programming languages you know help in any way?

[red pagoda]

python is more than backend and web dev is like , not so much opportunities

[buoyant seal]

Html/CSS/JS aren't required at all for backend Dev. They are just nice to know and having basic experience for more full view/understanding of the web development

[red pagoda]

i want something useful and make the best out of it

[languid robin]

I would like to work with a lot of data using pyspark

[red pagoda]

so whats it gonna be web dev or python

[languid robin]

My 2nd job option would allow me to get Aws tool access

[buoyant seal]

Indeed. AWS dominates 70% of market across anything web related in any way

[languid robin]

I want to ease into Python programming for sure I just want to make an instant impact when possible

[tidal gazelle]

a software engineer and a software developer are different?

[coarse crag]

the more you know, the better candidate you are. but quality matters too. if you know 10 programming languages at novice level, it's not likely that companies will find you desirable. if you are a beginner, just focus on one first, and you can master another language later.

[coarse crag]

the term is used interchangeably

[tidal gazelle]

at what point do you think one has enough knowledge to move on to another?

[vapid jay]

are the same

[coarse crag]

well, if you can make use of the language on an advanced level. build complex stuff with that language

[languid robin]

I guess better put: which python topic/subjects is more important for a data engineer?

[coarse crag]

i think in the end it depends on what you see as advanced. but for me, i take the languages' functionalities as a parameter of my knowledge of the language. for example, i look up on "advanced python concepts" and if i don't know how to implement them, i don't consider myself as proficient enough.

by advanced in here, is not something that people rarely use.

[languid robin]

@buoyant seal @balmy spade

[tidal gazelle]

generally you can do coding interviews not by knowing much to program, but being able to break down the problem to find a solution right?

[near ocean]

not really, your code in a technical interview should be valid and run, it may not be optimal but it should solve the problem

you wont pass an interview by writing pseudocode only, even if its perfect

[coarse crag]

hmmmm both. a software engineer is not just a problem solver. you have to know how to create a program that solves a problem.

so you have to know both problem solving and how to program.

[languid robin]

Honestly what I learn is alot of tricks or shortcuts to common business questions these days, and those are re applied over n over

[tidal gazelle]

well by not knowing much, I mean not on a very advanced level

[coarse crag]

some programs need advanced level functionalities to run. it depends on the interview question.

[vapid jay]

U need basic python for scripting and know some libraries that should have high efficiency for processing data like NumPy, Pandas, SciPy, also u need to learn libraries for Data Ingestion, Data Acquisition, Data Manipulation, Data Surfacing, Parallel Computing (with PySpark), Data Pipelines

[near ocean]

the code you write in an interview isnt advanced code by python standards, the problems might be tricky and hard but the code, not so much
if you look at leetcode solutions they are relatively simple pieces of code, very short as well

[balmy spade]

I'm not a data engineer so I would lean to the advice here of those that are. A foundational understanding of python will certainly carry you far and does not limit you to focusing on a specific subject later.

[languid robin]

Which library for data acquisition,data ingestion?

Atm I just understand data structures

[vapid jay]

for data ingestion you need mainly SQL

[languid robin]

SQL I’m strong with already

[buoyant seal]

Kind of no idea. I am Backend dev + DevOps engineer. Not touched data engineering. I can only guess.

Although i have saved self assert questionary from some of interviews. I'll copy relevant sections to data engineering my opinon:

# Self-assessment

Please, rate your experience and provide the answers where it is required. **Edit this file** to provide the answers.

Grade-scale instruction:

* ? or 0: No experience
* 1: Junior (I have some experience or know some theory)
* 2: Strong Junior
* 3: Middle
* 4: Strong Middle (I can perform well, I know the best practices)
* 5: Senior (I know more than enough)

# Grade yourself


## Teamplay
* SCRUM:
* KANBAN:
* Git Flow:

## Algorithms
* Overall:
* Data Structures (hashmap, ll, queue):
* Complexity (BigO):
* Algorithms well-known (sorting, trees):
* Linear algebra:

## Data Engineering/ETL
* Number of years in the industry:
* DWH theory (datalakes, OLAP/OLTP, Star/Showflake):
* Pandas/numpy:
* scikitlearn:
* Apache Airflow:
* Spark:
* AWS Step Functions (or any similar):
* AWS Glue (or any similar):

## Python
* Overall:
* Number of years in the industry:
* Standard lib (itertools, generators, datetime etc):
* Parallelism (threads, processes, GIL):
* AsyncIO:
* OOP:
* Unittests:
* Integration tests:
* Testing tools (pytest, unittest, mock):

## Python Web development
* Django (overall, ORM):
* Django DRF:
* Number of years with Django:
* FastAPI:
* Number of years with FastAPI:
* Flask:
* Number of years with Flask:
* Any additional frameworks: (write your answer)


## Microservices
* Overall:
* Number of years in the industry:
* Microservices architecture:
* Event-driven systems:
* Consensus systems (Raft, Paxos):
* Distributed transactions:
* DDD:
* CQRS:
* Distributed locks:
* EventSourcing:


## DevOps
* Kubernetes:
* Docker/Compose:
* NGINX/Gunicorn/Uvicorn/Daphne/uWSGI:


## Cloud computing
* AWS:
* GCP:
* Azure:
* AWS Lambda/GCP Cloud Functions:
* AWS IAM:
* Terraform:
* Pulumi:
* Cloud Formation:


## Web development in general
* REST:
* gRPC:
* GraphQL:
* JWT:


## Databases
* SQL:
* SQL JOIN:
* SQL Optimizations:
* SQL Transactions:
* MongoDB:
* ElasticSearch:
* SQL Alchemy:
* Other ORMs:


## Queues
* Overall:
* Celery:
* Which brokers you used with the Celery:
* Kafka:
* RabbitMQ:
* Other queues:

In my opinion all those sections are related to Data Engineering. Some of them in more degree, some of them in less. I am not Data Engineer though. I am backend/Devops guy

[vapid jay]

https://github.com/datastacktv/data-engineer-roadmap

[vapid jay]

if you want you can follow this roadmap

[buoyant seal]

U can also make more up to date evaluation by analyzing Data Engineerking skills in job requirements in your local area, for Middle and Senior ranks
Search job posting web site with good search engine

[languid robin]

Mostly only have data base fundamentals strong, and some cs fundamentals

[coarse crag]

i saw something similar related to ai and data engineering before.
https://i.am.ai/roadmap/#note

your recommendation seems more comprehensive tho

[buoyant seal]

Cool map. A bit of too linear though. 2D maps are cooler. It would be funny to have 3D map xD

[coarse crag]

yeahhh i also think it could be alot better

but i guess it's pretty good now, at least better than nothing

[coarse crag]

ohhh you updated your roadmap on github. i remember it didn't have a map legend before

i like your roadmap, thank you for sharing!

[buoyant seal]

yup. my map gets new features. Improving map as i improve myself. xD this map is also for me as well to remember learning resources https://github.com/darklab8/darklab_backend_roadmap
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/darklab8/darklab_backend_roadmap/master/swe_backend.drawio.svg

[cyan sequoia]

Is it still easy to get an entry level job without a cs degree but an engineering degree

[coarse crag]

i see i see thanks!

[buoyant seal]

yeah. rarely who will care if you have CS degree or STEM degree.

[cyan sequoia]

Why @buoyant seal ? I see many asking for a cs degree

[coarse crag]

iirc correctly they also accept "cs-related degree"

they as in companies

[buoyant seal]

May be it is different in other countries, but in my country a degree with Math and CS degree were almost equal in what stuff is learned.

[cyan sequoia]

Yeah usually the only issue is I’m in civil engineering so that’s not related to cs ig :/

[coarse crag]

ooh

[cyan sequoia]

Don’t think companies will care for a civil eng degree compared to electrical and maybe mech idk

But it’s still STEM regardless should mean something

[coarse crag]

i think you've been asking the same question for a while now.. i think that @ recursive_error's previous answer is already best.

[near remnant]

?

[coarse crag]

#career-advice message

[near remnant]

sorry mate for questions mate innit

[coarse crag]

even if they said that they are preparing for the contract, i agree with recursive_error that it's good if you keep looking for other job offers. who knows if you can get better one.

btw... i'm not sure or knowledgeable about professional working environment. but, from this statement

"I hope to be able to report soon with the good news that we will be sending a formal, written job offer for this four-month internship position."

i think that "i hope" is not the same as "i will", so it's still not a guarantee that they will send you the contract.

[near remnant]

💩 💩 💩

Then why did they say: "the contract is currently being prepared"?

Anyways i will just wait

[coarse crag]

just like what @ recursive_error said before, they could be bullshitting you and using you as a backup candidate. if you prove them you have other job offers, i think they will be afraid to lose you and proceeds the contract faster.

[smoky quest]

wasn't it sent like 2 weeks ago now?

[near remnant]

No its a different one

As I said, I was interviewing for a lot of companies. Unfortunately, there were some bad ones

I graduated in the middle of June and I feel like getting a job during Summer is pure pain

Its so slow most of the times

[smoky quest]

if you have graduated, why are you looking for an internship?

[near remnant]

What is this question

Tons of people doing internships, most of them are career changers. I have business economics degrees, not CS.

To answer your question, I apply for all kind of jobs tho (in the tech realm).

It is hard to ask for help here because every case is so different.

You can't say the same thing for everything, like: "they are bullshitting you"

I mean, I know, always be realistic, and I am, but I think you know what I mean.

[coarse crag]

well i mean, from the perspective of a hiring manager, imo if they see one-in-a-million, talented candidate, they would want to hire that person on the spot, or at least, as soon as possible. but well, maybe it's different.. i'm just saying what i think

[smoky quest]

I see. Good luck!

[near remnant]

Thanks mate

[coarse crag]

all the best for you @near remnant , i wish you luck!

[smoky quest]

But my question was more about the point that someone who has graduated would rather look for a job than an internship as an internship wouldn't provide much value.
I didn't recall you aren't a CS degree holder

[near remnant]

Well, here at last, dear friends, on the shores of the sea comes the end of our fellowship in middle-earth. Go in peace! I will not say: do not weep for not all tears are an evil.

[near remnant]

Yeah mate, we'll see. Thanks anyway.

[cyan sequoia]

@smoky quest is an unrelated STEM degree still valuable for entry level you think

[near ocean]

yes

[smoky quest]

It's like a cost function. The closer to the target, the more relevant.
But even at its worse distance, it's still better than nothing

[cyan sequoia]

And do you think you should even worry about the salary when trying to get the first job especially without a cs degree, or just be happy to get your foot in the door

[smoky quest]

It's a trade off. So no hard answer.
It would be reasonable to not be as aggressive as other CS candidates but you also don't want to be taken advantage of

[near ocean]

you should always seek to be fairly compensated for your work, it doesnt matter if you just started or have 20 years exp
otherwise you end up taking unpaid internships "for the experience"

[cyan sequoia]

Is an unpaid internship for the experience that bad as a worst case ? Atleast after that 1 year or whatever the money would start coming in after you start job hopping and learning more yea

[near ocean]

Who guarantees money will start coming in after a year?

[honest pivot]

Or...you could be pegged as the sort of person willing to take an unpaid internship for a year

[cyan sequoia]

Well I mean after you get a year expeirmce you can switch companies

[smoky quest]

After 6months, it's not really an internship though.

[near remnant]

Money can start coming at any time tbh, its up to your luck, network, skill. Many things. Mostly luck, unfortunately.

[smoky quest]

How far are you from the field?
Do you have any domain expertise you could leverage to get your foot in the door?

[near ocean]

Working for up to a year with no pay, some of us dont have trust funds set up to help us lol

[shadow moss]

In the US, Computer intern positions are almost always paid.

[cyan sequoia]

I’ve still got a long ways to ago still just a beginner in python but that’s my target getting into the field eventually

[dawn leaf]

and not just paid but often paid **very well

[real arrow]

Hloo, i am newbie to learning programming language's any idea where should I start Learning python

Help me out

[dense mesa]

Hey, welcome to the server, great to hear you're interested! This channel is for discussing careers, try asking the same question in #python-discussion

[real arrow]

Ok bro

[graceful mason]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bId3N7QZec

[honest vapor]

is there difference between programmers and software engineers salary?

[dense mesa]

https://workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/186422/how-can-i-improve-my-developer-portfolio

[peak halo]

Those are the same thing.

[dense mesa]

The top answer to this is pretty good for responding to people asking "is my portfolio sufficient for X"

[honest vapor]

im just asking for ppls opinions

[gritty rivet]

There is no meaningful difference, unless you are asking about something specific (like courses at a particular university) that we wouldn't know about

[dense mesa]

The difference between them is pretty minor, a programmer may be doing less system design, whiteboarding and meetings etc, but job descriptions may list them as being the same

[honest vapor]

wb salarys?

is there difference between programmers and software engineers salary?

[peak halo]

You're asking for people's opinions on the difference between two job titles. But there really isn't one. Two companies might use those two titles for positions with identical responsibilities.

[dense mesa]

You should look more into what each "role" would do first I think

[peak halo]

And the same company might have two "software engineers" with completely different responsibilities.

[honest vapor]

Ooh now i understand.

[gritty rivet]

In what country? There might be data, otherwise, your guess is as good as mine

[honest vapor]

Im planning Germany, but if My Plans Didnt Work out English or In my Country, Georgia

[gritty rivet]

All the data I'm seeing online treats programmer, developer and software engineer as a single category. To me the title programmer implies a more junior position but I have no idea if that's really the case on average.

[honest vapor]

Understendable. Thanks For Your Opinion

[peak halo]

"senior programmer" does sound weirder to me than "senior developer". But then so does "junior programmer".

[buoyant seal]

https://dropbox.github.io/dbx-career-framework/ic1_software_engineer.html
yeah in each company it has its own definitions. Look at this cool ladder from IC1 Software Engineer to IC7 Software engineer
Obviously salary is different between them is multiple magnitudes. Hell. in their whole career, not everyone would reach IC3-IC4 level

[summer moth]

I learned basic python cause i want to pursue career in Data analytics

[delicate bane]

wow was that answer from recursive's secret account? im jk

no but yeah they had a point. especially with the economy stuff and how people without a college degree can be a surprise package

good times -> companies: lets take a risk and hire this person. we are short people anyway.

bad times -> companies: rejected

[delicate bane]

programmer sounds a bit outdated imo

[summer roost]

My understanding is that there are countries where "software engineer" is a job title that you can't claim without passing some sort of engineering examination, but that in most countries "software engineer" is a title that could be given to anyone who develops software.

[hearty island]

reading bi books is hell, feels like i'm just spinning my wheels

[cyan sequoia]

So can you get a job just knowing python

[delicate bane]

short answer: no

[summer roost]

Almost all real world programming jobs require you to know multiple languages. Not 100%, but probably around 90% or more. You should plan to keep learning more stuff after you learn Python. Other languages will come more easily after the first.

[cyan sequoia]

Ah

But is self teaching yourself to get into the field quite doable

[hearty island]

well the field is largely self teaching

[cyan sequoia]

Cuz once you get in you can learn a lot at the job anyway right

Yeah I just mean without a cs degree but an unrelated stem degree so I gotta self teach

[peak halo]

if you have an unrelated STEM degree and industry experience, it would be easier than trying to get a developer position without any degree.

[cyan sequoia]

And then once you’re in the industry the the experience matters more over the years and less if you have a degree right @peak halo ?

Like getting into FAANG after some years without a degree and on a side note, Is it hard to get into fang

[peak halo]

FAANG companies get tons of applicants, so they can afford to filter out non-degree applications for junior positions.

[cyan sequoia]

I’m getting a degree in civil engineering but that would probably be filtered out too you think huh , but anyway if not for junior then for more senior roles is it attainable ?

[gilded valley]

I doubt it would be filtered on principle

[peak halo]

Well, senior roles are built on prior industry experience. And as we've discussed, experience tends to overtake degrees in significance over time.

[cyan sequoia]

Ah

Does anyone have any resources for the journey from not knowing anything to getting a job in the field im still at the very beginning , idek python

[peak halo]

well, if you're sure that you want to be a developer and sure that you don't want to be a civil engineer, are you open to switching majors?

though I suspect that civil engineering has programming components. probably significant ones.

[cyan sequoia]

Little programming aspects but still some exposure , considerably less than electrical or mech but yea I’m trynna think of options after getting my civil degree

So idk what’s best a boot camp a cs masters self teach everything not too sure

[uneven grove]

I will be probably shit cleaner

[peak halo]

in terms of the number of doors it would open, a CS masters. and if you're already in school and could smoothly transition to the grad program, I would do that. boot camp would be a deep second.

[cyan sequoia]

But boot camps are also pretty good?

Another option is getting an entry job or something maybe with a boot camp if they’re good and trying to get the employer to pay for me doing masters maybe idk

But that’s still a long ways away I barely know any python or programming at all so I guess I have to start there

[peak halo]

I'm not really sure what a bachelors immediately followed by a boot camp would do for you. (And I'm not saying it would be a waste of time, I just don't know.) If you only did the boot camp, without having gotten a degree, my company would just throw away your application.

[cyan sequoia]

Ah

Yea idk I’m just confused about the entire process and everything , just learning some python is a good start thou would you say @peak halo

[peak halo]

it's more important that you learn how to do a certain kind of thing in Python, but it wouldn't be a waste of your time, no.

[cyan sequoia]

Cuz part of the entire process is knowing languages right

Idk what else I could start with if I wanna self teach myself so maybe jsut learning python

[peak halo]

Civil engineering involves designing traffic patterns, yes? you could learn how to make traffic simulations.

which might sound challenging, but it could just be something that calculates the throughput of an intersection per hour given different configurations, without creating a visual of animated cars driving around.

[fleet reef]

@leaden jasper - re: #python-discussion message

[dense mesa]

@cyan sequoia you can get into software engineering from a traditional engineering background

[leaden jasper]

Okie doke, so a PE, aka a Professional Engineer

[cyan sequoia]

So that’s what you mean by doing something within python right

[cyan sequoia]

Yea it’s easier with mechanical and electrical idk about civil thou I hope so it’s still a STEM degree but not too related

[leaden jasper]

This is an official title you get after studying a dick ton and take some grueling engineer tests. It's nominally available for all engineer professionals, but you only need it if you're civil.

Being a PE lets you sign certain engineering documents with authority. It also means you have some non-trivial liability.

To even think about taking the PE exam, you need to take a qualifier exam of sorts called the FE (Fundamentals of Engineering). If you pass the FE then you become an EIT (Engineer in Training).

After X amount of years (X varies wildly state by state) and possible a recommendation from a supervisor and/or PE, you will then be allowed to sit for the PE.

The PE is generally not a thing you need to do outside of construction/civil engineering disciplines.

[dense mesa]

I didn't do mechanical or electrical, you don't need a specific branch. If you have the time and patience to self teach, that's all that matters

[leaden jasper]

(I'm an EIT and will likely never need to go for my PE)

[cyan sequoia]

Did you do engineering degree and self teach yourself @dense mesa

[fleet reef]

I see, thank you

[dense mesa]

Recently graduated with a bachelor's in engineering, was completely self taught and got a very good software engineering opportunity

[cyan sequoia]

Just engineering ? Or a specific field , not related to software but you self taught yeah

@dense mesa

[dense mesa]

Did general engineering to get a variety of options, I did mostly manufacturing/operations modules with some automation and industrial

[cyan sequoia]

USA? @dense mesa

[dense mesa]

UK 🇬🇧

[cyan sequoia]

Ah don’t know how similar or different things are

Could I DM you and ask some questions @dense mesa

[dense mesa]

Do it here since I've responded to stuff in DMs before and other people won't get to see it if they search for help

[cyan sequoia]

Ah ok , so how did you start with the entire process or how would you have assuming your degree is completely unrelated and you don’t know any programming because that’s the point I’m at and I’m confused what to do or where to begin

@dense mesa

[vapid jay]

How much could you make a year if you learned Python?

[true harness]

0+ dollars. realistically, this answer depends on your location, and if you're actually able to get a job. there aren't that many jobs that only need you to know python

[stoic jetty]

I have been experimenting with all sorts of coding projects, including front end, gaming, interfaces, and back end; I like back-end the best. 😁 I was curious concerning career opportunities, what jobs hire people with back-end/Python experience...

[true harness]

the ones looking for backend python devs?

[gritty rivet]

Looking at job listings and LinkedIn profiles is a good way to get a handle on what opportunities you can aim for, how different skills and formal education are valued, etc.

[dense mesa]

So just Google "how to learn python", look at some resources, try some projects, repeat as you learn more and more

There are loads of videos and tutorials out there, those are decent for the very basics

Once you understand what variables, lists, functions etc are, write code and do projects

[buoyant helm]

What should I read up on until tomorrow based on this?

[honest pivot]

Nothing, just get some rest. They clearly explained they're looking for your thought processes and communication skills, not whether you can magically solve problems on the first try.

To me I think the most awkward thing about these is that the interviewer can't "help" too much, which makes the conversation start to feel a bit inauthentic. In real life, we'd both be brainstorming together how to solve a problem we don't already know the solution to, not just me vocalizing all my thought processes and them occasionally giving hints.

[buoyant helm]

Completely agree, I’m really just wondering which type of coding challenges I’ll get

[buoyant seal]

my worst interview was, where i was suggested to code a simple program, and then in the middle of it, i was forbidden to continue using test driven development and told to debug by reading a code without compiler. They only cared to gather metrics similar to other interviews.
The only thing they cared in a program, so it would be just a bit improved in terms of used data structures and algorithm performance optimization.
******* b******s. ****y *********s. Whoever they are, they weren't programmers.
How far we could go unrealistic than suddenly going into whiteboard interview?

Although no. The was one even worse interview 🤔 it was too horrible to speak about it.

[rotund crest]

Isn't it pretty common to be expected to debug code without a compiler

[buoyant seal]

it is not a skill u will ever need in a real world

Writing unit/integration tests, and using visual IDE debugger is a way to go.

we aren't in 80ies any longer

[graceful mason]

that's not always true

[buoyant seal]

name it when it would be useful then 🤔 It would be useful for going into interviews with whiteboard? 😆

[graceful mason]

personally working with event-driven embedded systems, sometimes you have a situation that you can't feasibly write tests for.
once you have a strong enough understanding on a language it's also pretty common to be able to spot issues without needing to debug, which improves development time

[buoyant seal]

The purpose of those interviews is just to have more easily aggregated more uniform metrics about interviewed people.
Same could be better done by just having auto test for interviews

If you care to make a technical interview, it could be performed much better. Checking for a bigger range of skills of candidate

Having whiteboarded interview like that is just a waste of time, that could be used to have better technical interviews or just making auto test to have the same

[buoyant seal]

sometimes tests are written in advance, sometimes after considerable step. The important is, to write tests and covering your solution at the right time/step to move forward, while feeling confidence that another part of solution got covered and u are sure that it works correctly.
Anyway, it is not important in terms of current context. The important that.... they are ripping people out of normal workflow where person writes code best, and just put them in inhuman conditions where it would be just easier for them to gather metrics. It is kind of neglectful i think.

In result, best would shine candidate, who trained to solve whiteboard interviews. working in those conditions not really relevant to real world.

[balmy spade]

Trusting spotting issues without debug or tests? How do you add features with confidence they don't break existing or cause regression?

[buoyant seal]

I think knowing language gives only three things to a programmer

1. In case of python due to its extensive amount of features to implement syntax isolated behind python language features, u a just writing code with loose coupling better.
   Hmm it would be interesting to compare some other learned language, what similar advantages it gives 🤔
2. knowing ecosystem, helps to write faster solutions
3. also knowing language, u a less making code standard level mistakes affecting code/project. (Like don't silent Exception in python as example)

[vapid jay]

look if you want to have a career #help-dumpling
if u can solve it then congratz u are going to be succesful

[balmy spade]

Please don't cross-post your requests for help in channels that aren't for that topic.

[vapid jay]

just solve it please i am pea brained i am actually going to die

[buoyant seal]

Seriously?

[vapid jay]

yes im stuck in code HELP AAAAAAAA PLZ for days im stuck bro its getting fucking boring i need to get past this shit

[peak halo]

We have already asked you to stop making off-topic comments in this channel. You will be muted if you continue.

Please do not prolong off-topic conversation. Search for that person's message history to find their help channel.

!ban 716342919530938419 Racism

[inner wren]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @sick hinge permanently.

[peak halo]

No further comments.

[graceful mason]

Well in our world we have a few different kinds of tests including:

• standard functional tests
• AOIT tests - taking a single AO (representing a system in a multi-system robot) and testing it in isolation by feeding in mock events
• Simulation tests - running the firmware through our java simulation and seeing what happens

Sometimes you'll have an aspect of the system that isn't fully tested through functional tests, can't be tested reliably through AOIT, and the simulation isn't up to scratch so would require a huge rework

So you test it as much as you can, then rely on functional and regression tests to measure any regression. Since you're working with autonomous robots any coded tests will never be a perfect representation of the actual system you're running, so we have a fleet of robots running 24/7. Regression tests involve loading your firmware on a bot(s) and having them run around (for usually 4-8 hours) to see if anything regresses, and functional tests involve getting someone to put the bot through a specific situation and seeing how it reacts

[balmy spade]

So a much more developed QA testing system setup on the downstream of the code to make up for the uncertainty in the code layer. That makes sense, though doesn't feel ideal to me. Lots of room for catching things sooner on the production line and preventing backward movement, imo. Still, I completely understand the picture you are painting. Thanks for the extra details!

Though, in hindsight of my words, I'm taking a lot for assumption here.

You are dealing with physical machines running code and that's a situation I've not had the pleasure of working with. So long as the constraint for the dev cycle (idea to release) isn't the testing framework or "that one person who knows" then the system could run fairly well. I would like to picture that you have testing courses just for the 4-8 hour test sequences. Little fleets of robots doing their best with new instructions

I have a small manic obsession with robots. I should really see about shifting my job into a field where I can work with them.

[graceful mason]

Don't get me wrong there are still thousands of tests looking at big picture and super obscure things that the bots can encounter, the testing pipeline taking 40-60 minutes to run usually. But you also do end up with people who are super knowledgeable with each part of the system since they basically ended up writing it at some point - still the bots design does have a ton of little quirks that you just have to get used to.

Funnily enough sometimes even the functional and regression tests aren't good enough because a certain issue will only pop up if the bot has a specific bit of damaged hardware, but the bots at our testing facility and worked on so often that none of them will have those damaged parts, so you have to wait until the code is deployed live to test it

It's quite fun coming up with ways of simulating certain issues too, when I was doing a lot of work around the brakes we had to try a few creative ways of getting the brakes to turn on. We started by placing a bot against a wall and make it drive into it and it just sort of kept going but the brakes didn't turn on for long enough and the motors would start getting really hot, so instead we had to duct tape one of the wheels and tell the bot to just start driving.

[balmy spade]

Ha! Manufacturing the "something got caught on a wheel" in a testing environment. The entire working setup sounds like something I would have endless fun in. Well, the me about 15 years ago and maybe the me in another two years of yoga. I don't move quite as well as I used to and working with physical bots sounds demanding.

I deal with more menial things like "if we don't cover every edge case of data consumption the hedge numbers won't come in and trading will halt". Or "if this system fails nobody will be aware of other systems failing."

My favorite is helping teams design better and more complete automated testing that reproduces the work their BAs and QAs already do so that those folks can forget about the boring parts and plot new ways to break our systems.

Write automation for everything someone does and you'll find they come up with twelve new ideas by the end of the next day.

[tidal gazelle]

If there are any software engineers here, can you say anything about the overall satisfaction of the job?

[smoky quest]

It can be a fun job

[whole wasp]

Guys I finally got a lawyer

Things are getting heated at my job

[tidal gazelle]

For the job, is it best to know one language very in depth or more languages at an intermediate/advanced level?

[smoky quest]

depends on the job. You should focus on the skills related to the job rather than specific languages

See https://roadmap.sh/ for an example of skills

[native narwhal]

I'd love to chat with someone that works as Data(something) mainly with Python and SQL regarding career paths and benefits
I know that Data Analytics usually tends to go to visualisation with Power BI / Tableau etc. and plenty of job opportunities
and from there I think I might be more interested Database administration or Data Engineering with ETL methods etc but career wise I'd also be willing to work with data visualisation
so what do you guys think

[junior pewter]

Hello guys, I'm going to work as system test engineer in python, but I also consider to go to web development. Is this hard to change career path without salary decrease?

I mean, for example, can I start as a mid python web developer in the future or do I have to start over?

[smoky quest]

it will depend on how your skills translate to a mid python web developer

[junior pewter]

So after my main job I should create projects on my own to grow my web development skills

[smoky quest]

that would help

Employers will be hiring a mid python web developer. So it will come down to how you fare comparing to all the other candidates, who most likely were junior python web developers or already mid python web developer.

[shut shard]

Does anyone know whether Tkinter is being used in jobs, or are there better GUI (for python developer) that they are using

[formal kernel]

When should I start looking for my first internship?

[smoky quest]

many apps are now transitioning to SaaS and using the web as the frontend. So it's worth exploring as well

[smoky quest]

a good six months before it's supposed to start

[formal kernel]

I’ve only taken Java and Python fundamentals. Should I wait until I have take other classes like data structures before I start applying for jobs or internships?

[smoky quest]

When do you graduate?

[formal kernel]

I started as a part time. Starting fall semester I will be full time and expected to graduate spring 2024

[smoky quest]

started what as a part time?

[formal kernel]

Part time CS student

[smoky quest]

In general, the school will lay out timelines for internships and students will look for jobs when they graduate

if you are looking for a part time cs job, then it's an undefined scenario and anything is possible. But these are super rare

[formal kernel]

They type of internship doesn’t matter. I could do full time or part time. But I would like to know or at least get an of when would be the right time to apply.

[smoky quest]

The type of internship does matter as it will be useful to build an interesting resume and stand out comparing to the other hundreds of candidates.
With regards to the timelines, #career-advice message

If you are not clear on when you should have your internship, then you should clarify that with your school. Different schools will have different requirements

[formal kernel]

Any concepts I should focus on?

[smoky quest]

You need to flip the question around and start by defining your objective.
Someone aiming for an embedded position would focus on a very different set of subjects than someone who will aim for working in security or webdev

So figure out what you want and then work backward from that

[formal kernel]

I’m just trying to get some information. Not to sound like a dick but your making this more complicated than it should be

[smoky quest]

Alright, then DSA.
But it is indeed complicated. Welcome to adulting

[honest pivot]

"Work backwards from goals" is a pretty fundamental thing, but it's a skill you need to develop for sure.

[magic scaffold]

any experienced python web developer in here guys ?

[buoyant seal]

https://www.pythondiscord.com/pages/guides/pydis-guides/asking-good-questions/#q-is-anyone-here-good-at-flask-pygame-pycharm
Don't ask to ask, just ask. Preferably in #web-development channel if it is not related to career-discussion

[tidal gazelle]

Does university matter much for jobs?

[smoky quest]

It does quite a bit. It opens a lot more doors and increase the prospects of a nice career.
(not counting how it also teaches you many interesting things)

[tidal gazelle]

Oh I mean like do software engineer jobs look for top universities or are ones that are decent also the same

[smoky quest]

The main thing is to have the degree. Beyond that, a better university would provide you with a better professional network.
The main factor in all of these remain you: how much practice you have had, how much have you learned.

[dusky pasture]

hii

i have doubt in python conditional statement

[coarse crag]

Hi, welcome! This channel is for career discussion. you may want to ask that question in #python-discussion

Or you can open a help channel if you need it.

[elder beacon]

I'm kinda worried that the startup I'm in isn't gonna do too well(too many projects, not enough devs, tight deadlines). I'm still learning quite a lot but I'm wondering how I could work this situation to my advantage in terms of career. Taking more responsibility despite being a junior is one idea but besides that I'm not quite sure what else I could do. Maybe I don't need to worry but I've been burned in my last job from taking a more complacent approach/blindly hoping things will get better.

[near ocean]

How long has this startup been around?

[elder beacon]

7 years. I'm not worried about it closing down though. I'm more worried about accumulating mediocre experience and learning bad developer habits so I want to fix that.

[gritty rivet]

If you're learning a lot, keep going. When that's no longer the case, move on quickly.

[graceful mason]

When applying for my internship I included any relevant modules, the percentages I got, a quick summary of the sort of things I learned, and any projects that I completed for it
Just saying "I got a high grade in everything" doesn't really help the people hiring you in any way - the projects I talked about made up a big discussion as part of my interview

[whole wasp]

Can I ask a question here before I get banned I think my lawyer gave me bad advice?

[delicate bane]

thats what i would do

[true harness]

you think random people on the internet are going to give better legal advice than a lawyer?

[peak halo]

If you ask another legal question, we will probably ban you, yes.

[dense mesa]

"you keep asking the same question despite multiple people telling you to consult a lawyer for a definitive answer" is what someone told you on another server, why would you ask random people with no legal background if a (hopefully qualified) lawyer is telling you what you need already?

[random pagoda]

Hi, anyone here who is doing a job after getting a conversion masters degree in CS?

[peak halo]

what is a "conversion" masters degree?

[random pagoda]

So, my bachelor's was in business administration four-year degree my schooling had subjects of Math required for engineering but after graduating. I self-taught myself python and started doing some cheap freelance work. So, If I want to shift I can and here is where a conversion degree comes in. Anyone can get into this as long as I can or you can prove it with my experience. I am finding people who did the same conversion courses. That's why I sent the question above.

Also, very few places offer these types of conversion programs since converting people who came from different subjects could be difficult as compared to standard masters in computer science.

[peak halo]

Is a "conversion" masters degree officially a separate thing from a masters degree, or are you just calling it that to indicate that it's a masters degree in something other than what your undergraduate degree is in?

because if you get a masters degree in CS, and it's the same masters degree that another CS masters degree holder (who also did their undergrad in CS) has, the fact that your undergrad was not in CS would probably be immaterial.

[whole wasp]

I did but my friend said I was given bad advice

[peak halo]

Whatever it is, you can't get help with it here.

[true harness]

is your friend a lawyer

[peak halo]

There's no point continuing this discussion.

[random pagoda]

No, two degrees are very different things. One is for those who did CS as undergrad and the other is for those who want to work in the IT and have a different undergrad degree. The conversion masters is very theory based and it includes the courses which are exempted from the traditional CS master's degree.

[peak halo]

so the program is different. is the degree that you're awarded at the end different? because if you get a "Masters of Science in Computer Science", full stop, at the end, then that would probably be a worthwhile experience.

[dense mesa]

I think there's some confusion here, especially about a conversion masters being theory based. It's a master's level degree for people who haven't studied CS at undergrad, but would like to enter the field with a practical conversion course

[summer roost]

Presumably that means it includes some courses that are normally included in BS CS but not in MS CS, right?

[dense mesa]

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/study/pg/computing/computing/

https://www.bristol.ac.uk/study/postgraduate/2022/eng/msc-computer-science-conversion/

https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/pgstudy/course/taught/computer-science-or-computer-science-artificial-intelligence-msc

[dense mesa]

Yes, typically a super condensed run through of the highly practical modules that you need for SWE

[random pagoda]

Yes, some award Masters of Computer Science (MCS) but that's okay I think. In a place where everyone asks for a Computer degree that does the job and gets you the work. I have heard that people got jobs after this degree but never really had chat with someone so, I am looking to find someone in this thread.

[gilded valley]

A couple of people at my work did conversion masters. At least one of them thought it was worthless

I think the other says it was valuable

[random pagoda]

He was right to some extent that it was useless, but it will be totally worth it when you are talking with an employer who just accepts a degree and doesn't care no matter how much you show your portfolio to them. Anyways, can you tell me where they studied to get a conversion master? I have checked and a lot of Universities there are offering these programs but they are too expensive.

[gilded valley]

Many employers will accept any stem degree

[random pagoda]

does business administration counts as STEM I think it doesn't? can you elaborate

[near ocean]

No it's not, STEM are science, tech, eng, maths degrees

[gilded valley]

No, but it will still get you to a fair chunk of interviews for junior positions

But I can see the appeal of a conversion masters with that starting point

[random pagoda]

That's why I have to gather funds and go to the UK to get this degree if I want to survive in the industry for some good 10 to 16 years.

[delicate bane]

interesting interesting. thanks for sharing

[umbral grove]

hello

[random pagoda]

Hi

[lapis wind]

Mmm tbf the biggest hurdle which is the primary reason to get those sorts of degrees, Is to get your foot in the door to begin with.

Thats definitely the hardest part, once you have some experience in the industry under your belt it becomes a bit easier.

[near remnant]

is this a good book? https://www.amazon.com/Learning-Python-Design-Patterns-Second/dp/178588803X

[buoyant seal]

Reviews and score are pretty awful. I would not risk reading it

[buoyant seal]

Have u already read Head First Design Patterns?

[near remnant]

I just need books to brush up on OOP and design patterns before internship starts. do you have any recommendation?

[near remnant]

I might take a look on that one, thanks

haha, looks goodie

[graceful mason]

https://refactoring.guru/store

some stuff available on the website for free, but the book has quite a bit more detail

[delicate bane]

love that resource + the python examples

[near remnant]

Thank you!

I was literally chilling the whole month and interviewing for bunch of companies so I hope 1,5 weeks of prep beforehand will be enough for this internship...

😭

[ancient lava]

hello

is any one online?

[smoky quest]

Hi!
It depends on the question

[rotund crest]

I just made it to the final round of interviews for a machine learning software dev position, still partly unsure if this is the right career trajectory. Definitely pretty awkward interviewing for this with no software dev experience

[finite otter]

Hey can any of you. guys suggest some good projects i can inspiration from so that i can use them for my internship thank you

[dense mesa]

What kind of internship are you doing?

[finite otter]

iam looking for internships in the tech space would be intrested in ai ml internships

[peak halo]

Only you can ultimately decide if it's right for you. What questions do you need answered in order to decide?

[rotund crest]

Honestly it comes down to if I am not hamstringing my salary, or if I will even be successful in this area

[delicate bane]

what are your biggest worries

[rotund crest]

Well, mainly that they aren't even giving me a coding interview

They asked me what I know about machine learning, and were satisfied with that

[peak halo]

I work as a junior ai dev, and I never had a coding interview. It was all about ml theory

Actually, I did do implementation for one interview. But it was still about theory.

[rotund crest]

The thing is that at my current job, I write maybe, MAYBE 50 lines of code a week, and I told them as much.

[peak halo]

I spend way more time reading than coding on a given day.

[smoky quest]

that seems rather lax

[peak halo]

And there are days where I only edit programs I already wrote.