ot1-perplexing-regexing

[small coral]

there are some electric cars that have manual too

[tardy rain]

Bro youre on discord

[small coral]

are we really talking about electric vs manual or automatic vs manual

[tardy rain]

Your data is long gone

[cloud oxide]

This data doesn t matter tracking data does

[graceful basin]

cars shouldn't have wireless connectivity, there I agree -- but you're using like waze anyway more often than not.

[tardy rain]

🤨🤨

[tardy rain]

You leave your phone at home when you get in a car?

[cloud oxide]

Was automatic vs manual but turned into Electric apperently 🙂

[small coral]

if you want to avoid data collection, live in a secluded forest away from society ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[cloud oxide]

Sometimes yeah

[tardy rain]

🤨🤨🤨

[cloud oxide]

There are different stages lol

[tardy rain]

My friend recently bought a cool 1989 golf 2

Only circuitry on it are for lights

Just do that

(or similar)

I told him to rice it up but he doesnt want to sink money into it

Wasted opportunity

[cloud oxide]

Cool golf 1989? Golf are meh i like japanese cars or old bmws m

With low km

[tardy rain]

Bro there is no satisfying you

[cloud oxide]

😁

[tardy rain]

This is peak car aesthetics

[cloud oxide]

I like souls games cpp python and driving

[tardy rain]

And i say that unironically

[stark prawn]

cars from that era all look the same to me

[tardy rain]

Car design was perfected back then

We've regressed

[cloud oxide]

I Just like the nissan skyline gtr r34 but that is overrated nowadays :/

[small coral]

regressed in coolness, maybe

[cloud oxide]

Maybe one day when i get rich like the honda civic type r for now

[cloud oxide]

We did

[grave cove]

boomer take

[tardy rain]

nuh uh

Its actually a gen x take

[young shoal]

automatic cars are safer and more fuel efficient than manuals

[rough sapphire]

model?

(yea I know almost nothing about cats)

[tardy rain]

Golf mk2

[rough sapphire]

I want myself a GNX BABYYYY 😼☝️

discord cat emojis are so terrible, kills the vibe

[uneven pine]

On iOS they use apple emoji

It's worse I promise

[brazen ingot]

how dou got google keyboard on ios

i need it as well

[solemn tulip]

idk, I like twemoji, it's pretty solid overall

[glossy niche]

I hate dog owners so much man, I really do

everytime I try to make peace with them an even worse dog owner shows up

I would honestly support a ban on owning dogs because a significant portion of the population is dumber than the dogs they own

[robust zephyr]

Incredible thought process

I met some bad dog owners so let’s ban owning dogs for EVERYONE

[glossy niche]

yes

[robust zephyr]

that could be millions of people. More than the number of people you will ever meet in your life time

[glossy niche]

ayup

that's how tired I am

[lament cairn]

based??????

everyone except shen

[robust zephyr]

I'm a dog owner

Imagine wanting to ban this guy

[lament cairn]

how about something different. tigers being weighed

[young shoal]

quite frumpy

[glossy niche]

yeah this dog in particular @royal lake please Escort him to the door

[drifting mountain]

someone rate this desktop home page

[fringe rain]

clean

[glossy niche]

mass surveillance is cool

especially when it's used to prosecute

[carmine apex]

indeed
we shall start with prosecuting you first, of course

would you like to plead guilty now, or wait until later?

[grave cove]

bro is standing

[glossy niche]

what is that animal

[lament cairn]

that is a man

[acoustic moss]

blud skipped a few millenia of evolution

[vale raven]

[glossy niche]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-jump-camera-cat-jumping-cat-rocket-gif-17784539269799085416

[vale raven]

[glossy niche]

what weapon is that

a chemical weapon?

[vale raven]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQ2WjtaPfXU

Wait you WHAT

[robust zephyr]

Very exciting for Typescript and Go alike

[graceful basin]

Yeah, GC vs no GC is huge

[quick cipher]

How is everyone doing?

[viscid glen]

hi

[quick cipher]

👋

[jovial oriole]

Doing what?

Cringe mods

Dude literally doesnt do anything

[glossy niche]

wait what? go has no gc?

isn't go gc'd c?

[narrow coral]

Go does have a GC.

You can turn it off with a flag but no one does

[scarlet peak]

fucking bs that this isn't gonna happen for a few months

[thick ore]

what are you trying to say here

[scarlet peak]

it's the fact that they announced a feature with basically "too good to be true, but it actually is" results, and then said "nah you wont get this for a whole 2 versions lmao "

why not just announce it like a week before its ready instead of 8 months

[lament cairn]

so people can test it

if it's released in advance as some sort of experimental version, it makes sense

dropping a major change like that out of nowhere is begging for shit to fail catastrophically

[vocal oyster]

I'd hope such a large change would take time, it wouldn't be trustworthy if they could churn out that in a week without any community input

[harsh tundra]

That's literally what happens with python as well? Alpha versions, beta versions, release candidate versions - all of those exist so that people can test stuff (and report errors) and adjust their libs to best support new stuff already on actual release day

[scarlet peak]

it makes sense now

[harsh tundra]

Python has a feature lock with alpha->beta transition. That is 5 months before release date. And that's for feature lock meaning no new stuff beyond this point - features are already chosen and implemented before that.

[narrow coral]

Its actually out

I starred the repo yesterday

Its called typescript-go i think

I forgot whether it was uh

Alpha stage or whatever

Might be

Build it and try it if u wanna 👍

[quasi blaze]

If you see a job posting with this base salary range, is it a scam?

[young shoal]

no

[pliant edge]

Depends

[quasi blaze]

What’s the phycological aspect of buying decorations for your home?

[graceful basin]

It feels good when you look at pretty things.

[solemn tulip]

that's why I got rid of my mirrors

[harsh tundra]

Place doesn't look empty and sad, it actually looks like someone lives there.

That's mainly why people buy cut flower and potted plants, it's literally life put on display...
Also green apparently helps with relaxation and concentration, so that is also a reason for plants, I guess... But my partner just chose green walls for the office space, lol

[high verge]

isnt it blue that does that

or does it make you feel happy

[harsh tundra]

Blue is general calm, but green/nature also has that effect

[high verge]

i heard if you wear blue mosquitoes will swarm you

https://tenor.com/view/art-summer-design-illustration-loop-gif-25679277

[harsh tundra]

Hm. Now that I think... My childhood home didn't have any pics on the walls etc. My father was pragmatic, I guess he's undiagnosed neurodivergent (a lot of neurodivergencies are genetic and I see signs in him)... And he also didn't like if mum got things that might've been practical but were decorative (like pretty boxes to sort stuff so it doesn't gather as much dust). Considering living/dining room was literally white walls and grey carpet, it looked pretty depressing. My sib's room had cork panels at the wall and they had some stuff pinned there (a big map, some schematics they made when they were young). Mine had wallpaper with stars on it.

[cobalt remnant]

Neat, Zen browser recently got tiling support.

[glossy niche]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy_ctHNLan8 this is extremely interesting

[jovial oriole]

Do your cats also do nothing

just sleep and eat

[carmine apex]

i mean that's kinda what all cats do

[jovial oriole]

Smh

This guy is so useful, actually doing something

[harsh tundra]

The ginger one also has zoomies

[harsh tundra]

Mine learned how to f5 (the photo is not posed, he really placed his paw like this and refreshed TV show I was watching)
And tries to learn hacking router's - first try was to throw the router off the windowsill, the a few days later lying on top of the router

[quasi blaze]

I was just thinking about this. If I were to get a new job, that means I would need to accumulate my vacation hours all over again

[uneven pine]

Cash your vacation hours out before you leave

Take a good vacay

[tardy rain]

Accumulating pto is weird

[tropic torrent]

am i cooking

[low chasm]

@rough sapphire going to univeristy doesn't equate to you not getting experience

[rough sapphire]

You can always get internships

[low chasm]

it also doesn't mean you aren't building stuff on your own

[rough sapphire]

Industry experience is always better

[rough sapphire]

Of course

I just need to take this path out

[low chasm]

how are you getting into the industry in the first place?

[rough sapphire]

I want to self-learn, build projects and then use that to leverage myself into a job

[low chasm]

you can do all of that while also getting a degree

which makes you all the more appealing to employers

[rough sapphire]

You’re a Muslim, right?

How did you do it?

[low chasm]

I'm still in high school

[rough sapphire]

You gonna take a student loan?

[low chasm]

I think it's important to understand that people going to university aren't inherently not building stuff on their own.

[low chasm]

I'll cross that bridge when I get to it

[rough sapphire]

I know, akh

I just can’t afford to take a student loan

It’s not permissible

I wanted to take a gap year and then save to go university

But I could do much more in a year

[low chasm]

yeah I understand that, I'm not telling you to, but I'm saying it's worth taking some time to gauge your options (you mentioned you have universities close to you that you can commute you, maybe you can take a look at them again?). in the end, it's your decision, but going to university has a lot of very real advantages for getting into the swe industry.

I also found this from some quick googling? https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/alternative-student-finance/alternative-student-finance, but I'm not sure to what extent it's realized yet.

if you want more career specific advice, have a go in #career-advice

[jaunty hedge]

So where to start?

[robust zephyr]

At the beginning

[jovial oriole]

[trail dust]

Someone needs to patch tier lists.
The indices are offset by -1, adding an "S" index to the top and omitting the "F" index that should be at the bottom.
Also, they oughtta be called "tier dictionaries" to rationalise the index titles; keys can be strings, indices use integers.

[thick ore]

cantarell is actually a fire font

next to inter

[rough sapphire]

#pragma moment

[rough sapphire]

doing assembly

[torn pier]

<_<

[glossy niche]

https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/questions/24961/whats-the-origin-of-process-return-status-0-meaning-success

interesting thread but it's rly abt history

[solid elbow]

it seems pretty obvious to me that the best answer is this: there's usually only one way for a function or program to succeed, but there are usually many different ways for it to fail. Using zero for success allows using the other 2**N-1 integers to convey information to the caller about why it failed

[glossy niche]

I thought of that, but then remembered that HTTP has all those 2xx codes for success

so I figured it might be just one prespective

[willow narwhal]

Count the number of 2xx codes, then count the number of 4xx and 5xx codes.

[reef goblet]

@low chasm did you apply to UW cs?

Decisions are out

[low chasm]

nah

[reef goblet]

Noooo 😭

[low chasm]

you?

[reef goblet]

I’m not a senior yet

I probably will when I am though

[low chasm]

ah

I considered applying, but I already have too many reaches

[low chasm]

good luck

college applications are hellish

[reef goblet]

How is UW cs a reach 💀

Maybe idk but I feel like you would have a good chance

Not every high schooler writes their own language

Or contributes to open source

[low chasm]

university of washington?

[reef goblet]

Yea

[low chasm]

the acceptance rate for cs is sub 10% for out of state students lol

its also a top ten cs program iirc

[reef goblet]

But I think you’d be in the top 10% of those who apply

Most applicants barely know how to code

[low chasm]

tell that to all the unis I got rejected from lol

I pretty much didn't get accepted anywhere except my safeties 🥴

part of it is I'm applying from an incredibly academically competitive school district, so my grades are pretty average when you compare it to that

[reef goblet]

Wait, like where?

[low chasm]

well, i guess it was more waitlists/deferrals than outright rejections

[reef goblet]

I see

Did you apply to ivys?

[low chasm]

yeah, one, Princeton

[low chasm]

I didn't make uva or cmu, deferred from Purdue, waitlisted at my state school, since apparently they ran out of space and just waitlisted everyone who applied in my year, and got into UMD, but not for their CS school

I'm waiting on Purdue, BU, and Princeton now

[reef goblet]

Cmu is hard though

[low chasm]

hopefully one of those pulls through

[low chasm]

yeah definitely, I wasn't expecting anything

[reef goblet]

I think public schools care more about grades then anything else

[low chasm]

but uva did sting

so did getting waitlisted from my state school, but most everyone I talked to got waitlisted as well, so I'm assuming it was a space issue

[reef goblet]

Probably

[weak peak]

[low chasm]

yeah

[reef goblet]

No I completely believe

[low chasm]

well whatever

[reef goblet]

You will get into a good school

[low chasm]

can't do anything about it

[low chasm]

thanks 😤

hopefully Purdue pulls through

[reef goblet]

And if you can’t just do that that dude in California did

And jump straight to a t3 engineer at google

I’ve never heard of your school before tbh

Top 4% in the country is crazy though

[low chasm]

for what

[reef goblet]

Just in general

According to this ranking website

[low chasm]

my school??

what website lmfao

[reef goblet]

Yes

[reef goblet]

Niche

[low chasm]

huh

[reef goblet]

Yea

[low chasm]

idk where they pulled that number from, but I wouldn't put too much confidence into niche's rankings

especially for high schools

we're definitely competitive academically

[reef goblet]

Fr

[reef goblet]

Yeah

I se

[glossy niche]

i see your point, but still feel like the 1 success code thing is still arbitrary

[high verge]

how does one summon illuminatifish

my invocations arent working in #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval

[weak peak]

https://tenor.com/view/me-investigating-on-this-matter-robert-downey-jr-gif-7957358926395922419

[solid elbow]

it's the most common case, at least

look at the functions you write in a typical program, and see how many of them return multiple different values that indicate that they succeeded

I'm guessing that it's far, far less than 1%

[glossy niche]

yuh

result monads

hmmmmmmmmmmmm

now thati think of it, OOP langauges like python java have one try statement and as many catch statements as you want for different types of errors

monads also often only have 1 happy path

no, i still feel its arbitrary lol, so are my feelings

[high verge]

java has try-with-resources though

i think context managers are the same

[glossy niche]

huh

never heard of that thing

https://www.baeldung.com/java-try-with-resources

oh intersting

so its like syntactic sugar for implementing RAII?

or is the correct term "langauge construcT"

https://tenor.com/view/tellygum-gif-7997870579315684823

[high verge]

try (OutputStream stream = new DataOutputStream()) {
    stream.readInt();
    ...
} catch (IOException e) {
    ...
}

[glossy niche]

its a cool feature tbh

i like that

[solemn tulip]

it's quite RAII yes

much like python context managers

[uneven pine]

Zig has some neat features

I like the while loop continue expression syntax, and the defer statement is probably useful

[willow narwhal]

The compile-time stuff is cute, I don't know how useful it is in practice.

[junior mason]

Gm everyone, do we have a section for web3py?

[willow narwhal]

Nope, you'll have to use the general channels (#python-discussion or the help forums)

[uneven pine]

It's the kinda stuff that I wish rust did instead of breaking their own styleguide with new syntax

zig's kinda funky

they break convention for a couple of things like try/catch

but I don't hate it yet

[rough sapphire]

cool stuff coming out in zig

[uneven pine]

the language server seems to be pretty fast and useful too

[rough sapphire]

bun, zig, ghostty, zig

[uneven pine]

ghostty was almost the terminal I switched to

but warp's ui/ux won me over

[willow narwhal]

I did switch to Ghostty, after they fixed a few things

It's nice.. but in practice I don't notice a big difference from Alacritty — after all, neither have much in terms of UI

[uneven pine]

yeah I'm alllll about that flashy UI

    var total: u8 = 1;
    var i: u8 = 1;
    while (i <= 2) : (i += 1) {
        std.debug.print("total: {d}\n", .{total});
        total += 1;
    }

This is just nice.

huh, does shitcord not support zig

wow

I guess JS is close enough

functions on enums

global..values...in enums? that's...weird?

labelled blocks are a thing, labelled loops seem actually useful

[scarlet peak]

so i got this language icons json file that maps, well, language names? to images?

my problem is

you have explicit file extensions

{
  // ...
  ".epub": "epub",
  ".reg": "regedit",
  ".clinerules": "cline",
  ".gnu": "gnuplot",
  // ...
}

[uneven pine]

ooooooooohhhhhhhh

fn rangeHasNumber(begin: usize, end: usize, number: usize) bool {
    var i = begin;
    return while (i < end) : (i += 1) {
        if (i == number) {
            break true;
        }
    } else false;
}

this is exactly the type of stuff I Wish rust was doing.

[scarlet peak]

why not just i >= begin && i <= end?

[scarlet peak]

which is what

[uneven pine]

I can't really think of any other way of handling that more efficiently.

[uneven pine]

this is just examples from the book showing language features

in this case break true yielding a value from the while loop to the return statement

and the while {} else pattern

[scarlet peak]

but you also have what seems to be file names? ```json
{
// ...
"git": "git",
"git-commit": "git",
"git-rebase": "git",
"ignore": "git",
// ...
}

oh but no, `git` as a file is wrong: it's `.git`. for `git-commit`? well, neither works. same for rebase and ignore: nothing works

[scarlet peak]

this is expected. we like this

[scarlet peak]

this is not expected. we do not like this

[uneven pine]

yeah man I got no idea

orelse is a bit of a weird one but I can see how it can be used

[solemn tulip]

begin <= number && number < end moment

though maybe the compiler is smart enough to just optimize to that

[tardy rain]

return while makes no sense to me

Its only returning once but it reads like yield from

Why

[solemn tulip]

YOTO

[graceful basin]

rust has to do rs return loop { if i == number {break true} if i == end {break false} i += 1; }

[scarlet peak]

oh yeah i remember that famous saying: "you only triangle once"

[graceful basin]

hm, this kind of rules

[uneven pine]

I actually didn't even know rust had break return, interesting.

[solemn tulip]

you only terminate once

[graceful basin]

Only in loop constructs, not in while loops

[quick ledge]

Discord uses highlight.js for syntax highlighting and I'm assuming Zig isn't supported

https://github.com/highlightjs/highlight.js/blob/5685c0eba82b6ae86b0fdcd5d193dbc5f0789d0f/SUPPORTED_LANGUAGES.md
hmm it requires a third-party package

[royal lake]

SUPPORTED_LANGUAGES.md?plain=1 line 266

| Zig                     | zig                    |[highlightjs-zig](https://github.com/fwx5618177/highlightjs-zig) |```

[uneven pine]

It sounds likem hljs needs to just support zig :3

[stark prawn]

Everything he says would be coloured

[uneven pine]

I wonder if I can just....

[quick ledge]

(you should)

[uneven pine]

const std = @import("std");
const expect = std.testing.expect;

test "allocation" {
    const allocator = std.heap.page_allocator;

    const memory = try allocator.alloc(u8, 100);
    defer allocator.free(memory);

    try expect(memory.len == 100);
    try expect(@TypeOf(memory) == []u8);
}

nope, the shitcord devs have completely made it impossible to paste into the console

we love it

I'm not going to try and inject a javascript file into the discord client either

gotta jump through 30 fucking hoops just to enable the dev tools and then still can't use 'em

oh fucks sake, it actually isn't shitcord this time, it's chrome

progress!

[narrow coral]

https://youtube.com/shorts/P24II7txEkQ?si=nxK64PuX7FHRsv_y

@scarlet peak your fav programming language

[scarlet peak]

no i like typescript

[narrow coral]

To-mae-toe
To-maa-toe

[uneven pine]

you know

if 5 years ago you told me I'd be wriitng ASP.NET code willingly, I'd call you crazy

We makin' it out the prototype with the one bois

[solemn tulip]

maybe in 5 years you'll be writing go willingly

[uneven pine]

anything could happen

[robust zephyr]

Go is awesome

[uneven pine]

Go is so incredibly dumb

[limpid dove]

If Go was a song: https://open.spotify.com/track/6EEHeR2ZxPISdgAMCkmCLF?si=d35d2d31b96d4db9

If Python was a song: https://open.spotify.com/track/4DEcdqqKokU7UAE4wCGQEy?si=7b8273084922453b

[solemn tulip]

lovely

[limpid dove]

lol

https://tenor.com/view/perfection-perfect-michael-fassbender-magneto-x-men-first-class-gif-2260686001358167676

[scarlet peak]

they just need more layoffs. i'm sure that will fix things

[quasi blaze]

Has anyone else’s non-tech co-workers look perplexed when you explain to them what Docker is?

[solemn tulip]

"works on my machine"
"so let's ship my machine"

[quasi blaze]

The most short and concise answer to describe Docker

I was saying something like “it creates an image and this image has a virtualized version of my operating system and it runs our program which gets containerized by the Docker image”

[robust zephyr]

And that's how Docker was born

[glossy niche]

aint that micro VMs tho

like fire cracker

docker aint that portable

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roPiy2JydwA speaking of music: banger

[young shoal]

seems confusing

I don't think this is a coworker issue

[woeful phoenix]

"virtualized" "containerized" and maybe even "operating system" are too technical to expect nontechnical people to understand them

[young shoal]

even, "image"

[robust zephyr]

I feel like if you're constantly complaining about other people, it's good to stop and ask yourself if you are the problem

[timid latch]

"docker is a standardized way to tell computers how to run our product"

[limpid dove]

I wish docker.com had such a straight forward explanation

[woeful phoenix]

that thing describes damn near every developer-facing software out there

[limpid dove]

"We make an awesome software that you should buy to make your life better"

[young shoal]

if docker had that explanation on their website, no one would use it

[limpid dove]

I may have given it a go when I started out learning programming

I actually avoided docker in the beginning because I couldnt figure out what it did lol

although, I may not be target audience since Im just a hobbyist

[young shoal]

it's not really necessary if you're just learning a language

it's just a distraction until you want to deploy something to somewhere that isn't your machine

[quasi blaze]

I never claimed that it was. Through experience, it’s best to explain technical things in layman’s terms

[young shoal]

why didn't you do it this time

[quasi blaze]

Because I was new.

[timid latch]

Docker is mainly useful for deploying software, or in some cases running stuff like DBs on dev machines.

Both of which you rarely need when starting out

[reef goblet]

I hate dicker with a passion

they make it so unnececarily hard to use their product

[young shoal]

what would you say now

[young shoal]

[quasi blaze]

Fenix’s example

[reef goblet]

or maybe i'm just bad at using it

their website doesnt make it look like a dev tool

[terse harbor]

[graceful basin]

you download docker desktop and then everything works exactly as it should

well, you have to manually add docker to PATH on macos

[reef goblet]

not on my mac

[young shoal]

docker desktop is pretty good

[graceful basin]

there's a reason it's commercial software and didn't immediately get replaced

[young shoal]

until you're banned from using it by the company 😩

[reef goblet]

I had to add the binary to path, manually change the config file and sign in

[young shoal]

you don't have to sign in to make images

[reef goblet]

i was just trying to use act

and docker would not cooperate for some reason

[young shoal]

act ?

[graceful basin]

act is the open source GHA runner

[young shoal]

cool

[graceful basin]

why does act want an account tho

[graceful basin]

actually, nvm, I had to reinstall like 7 times on my mac to have it properly work on an external drive

[young shoal]

i recall that it is very picky about where it wants to install itself

[raw zephyr]

@tropic ridge this is a joke, right?

If so, please stop it

[tropic ridge]

No I won’t

Your not answering

[raw zephyr]

Okay, blocking is also surprisingly really easy

[tropic ridge]

Why are you not answering?

[tropic ridge]

Yes, we should all know that. we all know that

[raw zephyr]

I'm busy talking to yo mom

[tropic ridge]

I’m busy sleeping with your mom

[raw zephyr]

Oh, cool

[tropic ridge]

Your dad never had the balls. Nor the balls to produce you. So I guess your adopted

[raw zephyr]

I always knew her taste was bad

[low chasm]

surely yall can be more mature than this

[tropic ridge]

Mind your tone

[tropic ridge]

Mature cheese

[raw zephyr]

No, I'm allowed to make fun of someone spamming me for a while now

[solemn tulip]

||clearly not||

[low chasm]

you can DM modmail and we'll look into it.

[low chasm]

and yeah, don't harass other users.

[tropic ridge]

I would never :0

[raw zephyr]

All the screenshots are here

But I blocked them so it doesn't matter

[tropic ridge]

Dw all screenshots are here

I won’t call them again since they arrogantly blocked me

[raw zephyr]

"arrogantly" fuck off

[tropic ridge]

So for now our issues are solved

[tropic ridge]

Wow. Arrogant

[low chasm]

just block them and move on, we'll take care of it.

[tropic ridge]

I have blocked them

But thanks for the help

[solemn tulip]

that's a very liberal use of "arrogantly" 🥴

[young shoal]

🙄

[tropic ridge]

😌

[solemn tulip]

🧻

[tropic ridge]

💩

[young shoal]

certainly one of the emotes of all time

[tropic ridge]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DHFY2ghOBDv/?igsh=MTNqYzJlaGppaTN5OA==

[low chasm]

!mute 1280595392110792767 1d don't harass other users, and follow our #code-of-conduct when you engage here in the future.

[royal lake]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied timeout to @tropic ridge until <t:1742326379:f> (1 day).

[solemn tulip]

ab-ootiful

[scarlet peak]

damn shit is wild

what did i just read

[rough sapphire]

absolutely unfair 😔

[harsh tundra]

That's at least second time them harassing people today, and they were muted for the same reason before already. Soooo unfair...

[rough sapphire]

people cannot comprehend sarcasm without /s at the end nowadays I assume

[harsh tundra]

You know that in tech spaces you have lots of autistic folks?
And also Poe's law exists. There are people actually arguing that when someone gets muted/banned.

[timid latch]

Not to mention a big big part of sarcasm in spoken word is tone

A thing text is lacking

Hence tone indicators

[glossy niche]

this server needs more emotes specifically cuz of this

emotes are tone indicators

where r my glorp emotes

[timid latch]

And indicating tone is generally just important to avoid misunderstandings

Like to take a example from a staff exchange earlier today. I responded

As a ... I'm deeply offended /s
Imagine how that might have gone if I didn't use /s and they didn't realize it was sarcasm

[glossy niche]

i never ever used /s, i feel like it ruins the joke so i usually either double down on the joke to make it obvious that it is parody and that i am playing a fool

or i just let the other person assume im stupid, they aint far off

[carmine apex]

i don't like /s because it feels like the slash is facing the wrong direction

[rough sapphire]

yeah same

[harsh tundra]

Think of it as html and bbcode. Closing tag has slash, not backslash. [s] stuff [/s]

[solemn tulip]

As a mythological bird I'm deeply offended

depending on context the sarcasm can be quite clear

[vale raven]

wat \srs

[carmine apex]

i mean it ain't like newline is /n

side note and uncomfortably warm take:
if you really think about it, \n\r or \r\n makes more sense as a newline character than just \n

\r is back to the beginning of the line, and \n is go to the next line, which implies but doesn't actually say the column changes

[frozen crane]

apparently I am Python

[robust zephyr]

Impressive

[carmine apex]

the context behind this otn name is pretty good

also cheating because the channel name is not 0t1-stelercus-IS-python

[glossy niche]

https://tenor.com/view/izutsumi-dungeon-meshi-blake-belladonna-silly-dunmesh-gif-8880821417166639532

[tall sedge]

I started learning python an hour ago from a channel named bro code

This is fun

[woeful phoenix]

dungeon meshi mentioned

[glossy niche]

python is a fun language

[tall sedge]

I learned typecasting and variables

[glossy niche]

is should really finish that anime, Dung on Messi

[brazen ingot]

https://youtu.be/SZXHoWwBcDc

[glossy niche]

murder is ok

[tardy rain]

When

[glossy niche]

murder is ok

[timid latch]

The silly agrees

Has canonically committed mass genocide

[glossy niche]

wtf

https://tenor.com/view/angrybingus-gif-13021077095001514837

yes UN this guy right here

put a resolution on him

[timid latch]

She's just a silly little murder machine

She only killed all humans once

[glossy niche]

strongly worded resolution

[timid latch]

https://tenor.com/view/murder-drones-cyn-scary-absolute-salver-gif-9787200974993046344

[glossy niche]

wait who is that

[timid latch]

Cyn

Well

[glossy niche]

https://tenor.com/view/murder-drones-cyn-gif-15037292224759176448

hmmmmmmmm

[timid latch]

If we wanna be technical it's just Cyn possessed by the solver of the absolute fabric,

[timid latch]

Spoiler alert, ||fun fact she's wearing the skin of her caretaker who she killed here||

[quasi blaze]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-P4vdU-X-4 Interesting

Too long didn't watch: A video of CEO's criticizing applicants for having jobs that last under a few years

[tardy rain]

She was saying?

https://www.linkedin.com/in/nelliewartoft

She has 9 experiences of under 2 years

This person's entire education is How to bump elbows with suits

[south night]

What do you guys think about Dr Alan Thompson's AGI clock?
https://lifearchitect.ai/agi/
Is he correct with his "conservative estimate" (92%) ?

[tardy rain]

No

[south night]

Why not?

[tardy rain]

Because people are bad at estimating literally anything

[lament cairn]

until AI can assemble IKEA furniture, AGI will never be a thing

all other factors are irrelevant

[dapper dew]

So AI needs to control a physical moving device to be AGI?

[lament cairn]

I was joking about the IKEA part, but that's what Alan thinks, apparently

he has a fair point about why it's important

[dapper dew]

Interesting

[undone thorn]

is this arguing that we are 92% of the way to AGI?

if so: fuck no

I side with yann lecun on this

https://aibusiness.com/responsible-ai/lecun-debunks-agi-hype-says-it-is-decades-away

[tardy rain]

These people watch terminator and think its a build guide

[undone thorn]

I'm trying to find this alan thompson guy's credentials

[tardy rain]

Dont need credentials to guess

[undone thorn]

ofc

but I think he's being portrayed as some expert in AI when it seems more like he's been covering AI ethics and how to leverage it for a business/writing books about intelligence generally

as opposed to someone like lecun that actually builds models and understands the math

[south night]

that article is ancient, when taking into account that it was already over a year ago (14 months, to be exact)

wonder, what LeCunn would say nowadays..

[undone thorn]

what revolutionary technique do you think has been discovered in the last year that would change his mind?

[south night]

ok this one is more current: https://www.pymnts.com/artificial-intelligence-2/2025/meta-large-language-models-will-not-get-to-human-level-intelligence/?utm_source=chatgpt.com

[undone thorn]

he outright says it's not possible

LeCun said that large language models (LLMs) are not capable of reaching AGI, although he prefers to use the term “human-level intelligence.”

[south night]

well, we got tons of incremental progress..

[undone thorn]

without a huge revolution in architecture that is

same thing he was saying in the other article

[undone thorn]

in the last year? not really

reasoning tokens were like the last big improvement I've seen and that was published 2023

[south night]

https://www.aicritique.org/us/2024/12/05/top-ai-research-papers-2024/

but there were some lesser known papers on arxiv, unfortunately i forgot their titles :/

https://www.arxiv.org/abs/2412.16559
https://arxiv.org/abs/2412.08875
https://web3.arxiv.org/abs/2310.15274

[undone thorn]

like 7 of these are just models that were released not new techniques or anything

I'm not saying we didn't make any progress this past year obviously we did

just not anything so explosive that it'd change lecun's mind (and clearly it hasn't from the article you sent)

[south night]

at least, LeCun corrected his estimate from "decades" to "5-10 years", that is considerable progress for me

so we can expect to have AGI after 2030 (?)

[undone thorn]

I don't think he ever put an upper bound on it

he said "years if not decades"

who knows maybe we won't have it before 2100 even I would strongly disagree with anyone claiming that LLMs are anywhere close to AGI at the moment though

[south night]

not just LLMs but systems which use LLMs as stepping stones, to get taught, or to combine it with novel approaches, etc

to use an allegory, LLMs might just be the engine, but for a car, you need much more parts..

or maybe LLMs are just a (considerable) part of the engine

so if AGI was an interstellar spaceship, we might just have discovered the wheel..

[undone thorn]

if the engine of the car is analogous to the brain in some way, that's the issue. LLMs don't have any capacity to reason or think at the moment, they are just likely text generators.

lecun is saying whatever that component is that facilitates the thinking and reasoning has to be invented first because LLMs by their nature are not and cannot do it

[south night]

so LLMs could be compared to a steam engine?

(which was the forerunner of internal combustion engines)

[undone thorn]

well those both sort of serve the same purpose

an llm might be like a piston in this anology

not even close to what you'd need to power an AGI

[south night]

how do you like that allegory?

[undone thorn]

yeah I think that's a much better analogy

[south night]

thank you

at least, i think, it's just a matter of time until we get to AGI

it's not a question of "if" but of "when", imho

[undone thorn]

from a philosophical perspective I agree

if brains are entirely material, intelligence can be produced by physical processes, therefore we can create intelligence with physical systems

[south night]

and when AGI gets built (whenever that happens), what will be the next step?

use AGI to get to ASI?

and then the technological singularity? or is there some boundary?

[timid latch]

Robot girlfriends

[south night]

poor people, who do that :/

[undone thorn]

depends on whether AGI destroys humanity or not ig

as far as the definition of AGI I've always heard it's much smarter than humans already

[south night]

if FTL / superluminal information transmission is possible, then AI would have no limits, right?

then, even Asimov's story could become true..

but i believe that FTL is physically impossible (both travel and communication)

because of the Anti-terraforming-variant of the Fermi-Paradox

if FTL was possible, earth would have tampered with in her past

but geological record shows, that this never happened

therefore i'm convinced that FTL is impossible everywhere

[dapper dew]

What about spooky action at a distance

Isn't entaglement faster than light information transmission?

[tardy rain]

Whats transmitted

[dapper dew]

The state of the other entangled particle

[tardy rain]

How is it transmitted, can you detect it

[timid latch]

Isn't it a whole thing that quantum physics don't play well with relativity or something

[dapper dew]

I don't know the details on measuring spin state or such on particles

Time to go down a rabbit hole of methods of meauring particle states

[south night]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-communication_theorem

(found with Gemini experimental)

[dapper dew]

Yeah, found from a reddit thread: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-communication_theorem

The "read only" property thing makes sense

So in that case, no information is transmitted

[undone thorn]

lol

[south night]

what do you say about that argument?
(part of it was inspired by Dr David Kipping about his analysis of the Fermi Paradox)

[undone thorn]

quantum physics do really be treated like magic in the mainstream

if the beings that had FTL travel and supposedly interacted with the earth before humans but then covered all evidence of it and left, I don't think there really is a difference to us between that and them just never being here

unless you think they've left evidence we just haven't found/comprehended yet

[acoustic moss]

probably left us magnets to fuck with us

[undone thorn]

lol

[dapper dew]

I think FTL can't solve the "where" part of travelling backwards

I also don't think travelling backwards through time is what happens. I think it just slows time to a stop for the thing travelling

[south night]

why should they even bother to have it covered up, if they are so advanced to be able to anti-terraform a whole planet?

also they would have been one of the first, as it would have happened long ago

[undone thorn]

does FTL imply traveling through time? I just figured you'd have the effects of time being slower for you the faster you go relative to everyone else

in that case traveling backwards at a fast speed still does the same thing, you'd need negative speed to go back in time

[south night]

..so chances are they are (or were) the most advanced civ in the cosmos

[undone thorn]

what is anti-terraform supposed to mean here

[dapper dew]

If FTL meant you would go backwards in time, you would have trouble going to a previously known location since the position would have changed

[south night]

transforming a planet so, that it is less habitable for beings such like us

eg. transforming earth into a volcanic world (is anti-terraforming)

eg. by guiding a massive asteroid onto it, melting the crust, etc

[undone thorn]

the earth is covered in life so if they did that clearly they weren't very good at it

[undone thorn]

ah I see what you're saying

[south night]

Dr David Kipping also proved, that FTL travel amounts to communication into/from the future

..which would cause paradoxa

(the more i think about it, the more i believe, that it is impossible for anyone in the universe)

[undone thorn]

you and every physicist in the world my friend

[dapper dew]

I think its interesting to think that a photon "experiences" 0 time and that the entire lifetime of it is instantaneous

[undone thorn]

is that an established fact that moving at the speed of light is 0 time?

[dapper dew]

In that reference frame, I believe so

Let me look for a reference though

[acoustic moss]

its probably like a limiting case

[dapper dew]

Yeah seems like a mix

[undone thorn]

I would think that the perception of time comes from the speed of things around you relative to yourself

and in order for the speed of things around you to seem like 0 you'd need infinite speed

[dapper dew]

I think this is just the outcome of the Lorentz time dilation equation

[acoustic moss]

wouldnt you need 0 speed

[dapper dew]

Photons not having mass sorta breaks the whole "inertial reference frame" though

[undone thorn]

I guess at 0 speed things around you would seem to move at infinite speed

idk how that would work in time though

[acoustic moss]

huh

[dapper dew]

Everything is relative though, absolute 0 speed doesn't exist

[tardy rain]

How do you have 0 speed

[acoustic moss]

the definition of time ive come across is based on like the internal evolution of the observer

[undone thorn]

I'm saying their_speed / my_speed would be the inertial reference frame

and using l'hos( )pital's rule to get the infinite speed = 0 and 0 = infinite speed part

[acoustic moss]

i think you just gave 5 mathematicians a heart attack

[undone thorn]

heh

did I spell it wrong or you mean because it's only about limits

[dapper dew]

I'm referencing this

[undone thorn]

I see

[dapper dew]

And since the experience of time usually relies on an inertial reference frame, we can't say how a photon experiences time since it has no mass, and therefore no inertia

Still, I think its interesting to think that a photon "experiences" everything as instantaneous

[undone thorn]

ah yeah this reminds me how I was radicalized on photons lol

wave particle duality doesn't exist

photons are an event caused by electrons interacting with each other (without talking about QFT)

[dapper dew]

Photons are an event? (also can you expand QFT)

[acoustic moss]

quantum field theory

[dapper dew]

thanks

[undone thorn]

the way is was explained to me is:
an electron is a particle that has some effect on the state of the electromagnetic field around it, when the electron moves in some way the state of the EMF around it can't instantly update. Instead it has to update at the speed of light, as it updates in all directions this is an EMF wave. When the wave interacts with another electron that electron is either excited or grounded, when the electron is excited that event creates what we call a photon.

in quantum field theory it could be the interaction of any lepton not just electrons

[dapper dew]

Right, photons are the *a force carrier of the electromagnetic force

[undone thorn]

yeah

[dapper dew]

But isn't that tangential to wave particle duality?

[undone thorn]

no

I'm saying it's not a particle at all

what we call a particle is just us saying "the event happened here at this point"

it's also not a wave

just a set of circumstances we can detect from interactions of electrons

[dapper dew]

But it has particle like behavior and wave like behavior, so isn't that the duality?

[undone thorn]

the photon is not the wave or the particles interaction, it's the event that happens when they interact, is what I'm saying

it doesn't have properties of a wave or a particle

except in that we call it a particle because we can measure a discrete position of the event

[dapper dew]

I've honestly never encountered that opinion before, neat

[undone thorn]

wait let me find the video I watched where I got all this from

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=as3dpn0AOBE

as he says the wave behavior is a series of these events

many electrons interacting in sequence

[dapper dew]

I'd say it is a particle like since there is a discrete unit instead of continuous, and wave like since it can have a frequency

(also the whole self-intereference thing)

[dapper dew]

I'll give it a watch at lunch time

[undone thorn]

he also makes some hot takes on entanglement

[dapper dew]

Before I do though, is it just changing the definition of "event" and what we commonly think of as a photon?

[undone thorn]

in this video

[undone thorn]

not sure what you're asking

[dapper dew]

Saying that the photon is just the event vs being the particle that is "causing" the event

[undone thorn]

I guess you could say that yeah, the argument is that a photon is just what we call a set of circumstances that we can detect from the interaction of electrons

that wave particle duality makes no sense because the wave is just the emf and the particle is just the electrons, there is no discrete particle that is the photon itself or wave that transmits information outside of the emf

[dapper dew]

Interesting

I see that their channel is also working towards a unifying theory, my favorite is superstring theory

[undone thorn]

superstring theory? never heard of that it sounds awesome lol

[dapper dew]

string theory + super symmetry

It likely is not possible, since experimentally no supersymmetric particles have been detected

But the framework is nice and I think very interesting

[undone thorn]

I don't even really understand string theory

Ive just heard it's kinda fallen out of favor

Sounds mathy

[dapper dew]

vibrating strings in many dimensions, the "stable" vibration frequencies leads to the behavior of the fundamental particles

[glossy niche]

all ik abt string theory is that it's what ppl who get Fs in school bring up to sound smart

[young shoal]

that is many subjects

[glossy niche]

mmmtrue

"failed school but I watch vsauce"

jokes aside, isn't the theory not that well regarded? AFAIK it's too hard to test

[dapper dew]

Correct

[acoustic moss]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kya_LXa_y1E

[dapper dew]

I still like it as a theory

[acoustic moss]

i love her rants

[glossy niche]

and falsifiability is everything

[glossy niche]

I was just about to ask for a video to listen to

ty

[acoustic moss]

you sound like a taurus

[glossy niche]

who's that

[acoustic moss]

failed attempt at a joke

[glossy niche]

proof?

how to test that hypothesis

[solemn tulip]

the proof is in the whoosh

[south night]

"The proof is in the pudding."

[quick cipher]

How is everyone doing today?

[fringe rain]

good

[rapid pier]

good wbu

[narrow coral]

@round pendant is it true that ppl wear lipstick just to throw out the trash in russia?

(i hope i didnt phrase it in an offensive way)

[round pendant]

in general most behavioral stereotypes are, well, just that - stereotypes. like anywhere else different people have different habits

[narrow coral]

so the makeup everywhere thingy isnt as big as ive heard it to be?

as big as i've heard it == way more or often than avg/expected ig

[harsh tundra]

I love that you said "ppl" instead of "women" and I imagined a stereotypical Russian guy with lipstick 👍

https://www.instagram.com/vladnicolaofficial although...

(That's^ a guy. A cis guy. Making content of dressing up as a girl and tricking people, eventually shocking them with reveal)

[narrow coral]

its just easier to type ppl than women xD

also i know men who wear lipstick
not bright red ones but like yk sorta pinkish ones

sometimes my sister wants to try certain lipbalms on me and i dont mind trying them

as long as they arent too shiny

:p

[harsh tundra]

Hey, I myself am not a girl but also wear makeup... sometimes. Because recently I haven't really had energy to play with it

[narrow coral]

i dont wear makeup at all cuz i am really lazy xD
tho i dont mind if someone else wanna try that on my cute face lol

[harsh tundra]

Sad. Because I wanted to recommend Blend Bunny lip oils but other than being very hydrating they're basically lip glosses. So leave shiny layer. Although not as sticky as most lip glosses, but still shiny

[uneven pine]

I felt this

I am also really awful at putting it on and it's expensive

[scarlet peak]

the two sides of eastern european men in one form

[glossy niche]

they look like this then be the most racist mf online

[scarlet peak]

same
-# for legal purposes this is a joke

[glossy niche]

for illegal purposes, I am dead serious

[scarlet peak]

[glossy niche]

do u guys know any good sources for free audio books? legal ones of course (of course)

[robust zephyr]

Library

[glossy niche]

I need something I can listen to

I listen to them while doing house chores

[robust zephyr]

Yes, I am aware. Libraries have more than just books

[glossy niche]

interesting

ty

[robust zephyr]

[heavy trench]

I just mapped gs to do git status why didn't I do it earlier

[thick osprey]

Just wait until you learn the joy and power of [alias] in your .gitconfig

[alias]
        new = log --oneline main..HEAD
        missing = log --oneline HEAD..main

[heavy trench]

I was doing it with powershell

[robust zephyr]

In 2025?

[heavy trench]

On windows

[robust zephyr]

https://tenor.com/view/sxv-wtf-gif-23560064

[heavy trench]

https://tenor.com/view/snowing-looking-out-the-window-window-candle-gif-9479773506921035415

This is crazy

[thick ore]

actually not that crazy

[small coral]

squid game 2!! yay

[glossy niche]

how it feels to edit wikipedia

(i fixed a typo added some info about a very niche dish)

[small coral]

i edited a wikipedia page to clarify that shinzo abe was dead once

[small coral]

it got removed like 7 hours and 1 minute later

[glossy niche]

tf

homie said nothing wrong

[raven plaza]

I once fixed a typo on the chinese wikipedia page about nazi germany

[glossy niche]

can u speak chinese tho

oh wait ur bio has chinese nvm

[raven plaza]

yea but the typo was with a german word which I fixed

[glossy niche]

das poopenzimmer

[rapid pier]

any1 who is interested or sm shi

prob kids

but this is a 13+ server

idk man

and this

[faint nymph]

I am looking for python expert for our company automation

[tardy rain]

Shouldnt your company be advertising on linkedin?

[faint nymph]

of curs

but I haven't host yet

[tardy rain]

Havent hosted what

[solemn tulip]

aren't things phrased as "was" already?

[small coral]

the specific sentence i edited didn't have any "was"-specific phrasing except for "said" (which could be used for both living and dead people)

oh well, doesn't matter

[brazen ingot]

im banned from editing wikis for no legitimate reasons

[pine furnace]

Sure

[carmine apex]

@green yew is the tour you're doing of what appears to be a comment in most of the topical chats for the purpose of acquiring the 50 messages for voice verification?

[green yew]

no, i want to be part of different discussions that is the only reason, i hope i didn't overdo anything

[narrow coral]

One reason might be cuz u killed an individual called naïve

At least u r the main suspect

He was last seen talking with you

[raw zephyr]

is that because their name is knaeve

[brazen ingot]

.wa knave

[median dome]

Wolfram Alpha

View original for a bigger picture.

[brazen ingot]

.wa naive

[median dome]

Wolfram Alpha

View original for a bigger picture.

[south night]

hm, this recent discovery could answer the Fermi Paradox, or it could cause a massive rewriting of our history books...
unexplainable archeological discovery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZjU_hioDfQ

[grave cove]

my fault that was me

I was bored that day

[south night]

seriously, how would you explain that discovery?

or is it forever unexplainable?

after all, the Atlantis myth could have a grain of truth in it..

[dapper dew]

It seems like the discovery is contentious

[south night]

then they need to dig

to check, if that thing really exists, or was just a phantom in the output of the machine

if it exists, we MUST find it

[dapper dew]

I think the bar is pretty high to start digging under existing historic sites

"Welp the great pyramid is damaged beyond repair, but now we know there aren't 2km 2,100ft long columns under it"

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/03/23/egyptologists-row-over-underground-city-beneath-pyramids/#:~:text=row among experts.-,Researchers from Italy say they have uncovered giant vertical shafts,staircases” under the Khafre pyramid.

[south night]

this whole ordeal reminds me of this scifi novel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Video

ok, it might be nothing: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/pyramids-of-giza-new-discovery-structures/

[willow narwhal]

It usually is nothing

[willow narwhal]

Good book though

[south night]

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2535663/massive-underground-structures-found-beneath-giza-pyramids-

[tardy rain]

it was aliens

the ancient kind

[south night]

"It's always aliens, until it isn't." - ^^

[weak peak]

https://tenor.com/view/it-was-the-aliens-im-not-saying-it-was-aliens-ancient-aliens-gif-14839810013080040984

[lament cairn]

does anyone know how to make a github actions workflow that triggers when another repo not owned by me publishes a new release? I want to make a repo that automatically updates and publishes an image to GHCR whenever a new release on a dependency is uploaded. I think I can figure out the container registry part, but I can't find anything about the trigger

[vale raven]

Triggers have to be within your repo
however, you can use a cron trigger and pick a schedule to run on a timer
It just won't be immediate

[small coral]

who would spend their time trying to find out what's under the pyramids anyway

it's..... rock

surprise

[tardy rain]

Neatly stacked rock

[stark prawn]

well we need to find out how they had access to electrical power

[thick ore]

i love linux mint

sometimes you gotta chill out with the terminal

for the first time, nvidia driver management wasn't a pain

[south night]

LM21 or LM22?

(i have 21.3)

[glossy niche]

I had to restart my mint 5 times to get it to boot

and then I realised the issue was nvidia

the restarted 5 more times the installed the driver

https://tenor.com/view/linus-torvalds-linus-nvidia-fuck-you-gif-19475186

[fringe rain]

💀

how bad is mint + nvidia?

i heard you can just install a proprietary driver separately and choose to disable the dgpu by using power saving mode which falls back to the igpu
but i dont know about booting..

could you describe your experience a bit more

[glossy niche]

I only use my fkn

before mx920

geforce*

not before

tf

and it works ight?

the laptop is a 10yo lenovo ideapad you know it opens nothing but a terminal

[fringe rain]

can you say that again in a more cohesive manner

[covert rover]

Hi :)

[glossy niche]

it's not bad for laptop gpus

I have not encountered any issues doing regular programming work for a year on that laptop

[glossy niche]

I wish I bought a 20cm hdmi extension cable

monitors always have the most unreachable ports

a 1cm extension cable is a life changer when ur TV is up on the wall and 2mm away from touching it

first order of business tomorrow: hit the puter store

[fringe rain]

oh, i see

[thick ore]

in the past i have flamed linux for having shit font rendering

but now i realize that it was just GNOME with grayscale font aliasing by default

pro tip: switch to subpixel font aliasing in gnome tweaks

[bronze root]

literally gnome'd

[robust zephyr]

[uneven pine]

Pro tip. Use better DE

[quasi blaze]

Isn’t it interesting how accents of the English language transforms into a different one from its origin when it’s settled into different lands?

[wooden silo]

I think that's the case with all accents and dialects of all languages

They gradually diverge when geographically separated

[quasi blaze]

Imagine if an Arabic country was occupied by the Brits once upon a time ago and then that Arabic country also made English as a national language. The accent would sound so different and unique from the original English accent

[jaunty wraith]

Why imagine when there are multiple countries in the world that have done exactly that?

For example, countries of the Indian subcontinent

[quasi blaze]

An Arabic country was occupied by the British?

[jaunty wraith]

Does it have to be an Arabic country for the accent to diverge from the original?

[quasi blaze]

That was my premise, yes.

[jaunty wraith]

I don't see how that's a requirement, but okay
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_that_have_gained_independence_from_the_United_Kingdom lists multiple Arabic countries

[wooden silo]

I don't think it was intended to be a requirement for the divergence as a general concept, but rather for @quasi blaze's personal philosophical waxing.

[wooden silo]

It's sorta like that with Dutch in South Africa, isn't it?

Afrikaans even has its own name

[quasi blaze]

I am not sure. I am not familiar with South Africa’s history

[wooden silo]

They speak a variant of Dutch called Afrikaans there, as a result of Dutch colonization, though a much greater number of Dutch stayed there as well, as opposed to like, Brits in India (...I assume?)

It branched off from Dutch in the 17th century

I'm not sure to what degree they are mutually intelligible

[quasi blaze]

I see. Thanks for educating me

[wooden silo]

You're welcome

[tardy rain]

Also french in morocco or algeria

[quasi blaze]

Are you into philosophy as well?

[wooden silo]

Somewhat, yes

Though I don't like reading it too much

[brazen ingot]

by the profile pic it should be evident ig

ru a modern day stoic philosopher?

[wooden silo]

No, I'm not a stoicist

And my profile pic is not a stoic either

It's Epicurus

[brazen ingot]

fair enough

[wooden silo]

Following the Cyrenaic philosopher Aristippus, Epicurus believed that the greatest good was to seek modest, sustainable pleasure in the form of a state of ataraxia (tranquility and freedom from fear) and aponia (the absence of bodily pain) through knowledge of the workings of the world and limiting desires.

[quasi blaze]

What is your philosophy on underlings befriending their superiors in a hierarchical structure?

[wooden silo]

I don't particularly believe in hierarchical structures in general

[brazen ingot]

i believe it was related to imperturbable ideas

[quasi blaze]

You’re in one right now. This Discord server is a microcosm of a hierarchal structure.

[brazen ingot]

lol

[wooden silo]

Well, depends on how you look at it

Some people choose to revere others as superior to themselves while others don't

[quasi blaze]

What do you mean? If a Discord user gets banned, they are removed from the hierarchal structure.

[wooden silo]

The fact that some users can ban others doesn't make those users superior

[quasi blaze]

Yes it absolutely does.

We don’t overpower the moderators

They govern us

[brazen ingot]

true i do agree

[wooden silo]

Doesn't mean they are better than you

[brazen ingot]

that is entirely different

[jaunty wraith]

Janitors is a better description for mods than governors, I think

[wooden silo]

Yeah, philosophy is often about figuring out what words we use mean

[brazen ingot]

what are we then?

[wooden silo]

Does superior mean "have some kind of authority over another" or does it mean "to be better than another"

[quasi blaze]

I never said that. They are superiors in terms of status. Not better than us as human beings.

[jaunty wraith]

People

[wooden silo]

I think using the word "status" is prone to cause confusion. Some people think of "status" as "value"

You can actually kinda see this happening in Discord communities quite often

[brazen ingot]

mods are people but janitors but we r people? that isn’t so conspicuous

[quasi blaze]

Being a moderator is a status of superiority. Being an admin is also a status of superiority . Being the owner is also a status of superiority.

[jaunty wraith]

All of us are people, yes
That was the point being made

[wooden silo]

Again, I think "superiority" is a vague term here

[quasi blaze]

I am trying to define it for this example. Superiority meaning the value of authoritative status in a hierarchical structure

[brazen ingot]

hierarchy defines something? i dont see it now.

[jaunty wraith]

I'm not the one arguing about hierarchy

[brazen ingot]

can u still answer?

[wooden silo]

It may be inescapable that some individuals have formal authority over others, but to what extent they choose to exercise that authority in a given system varies a lot, and it's very much up to subjectivity whether you choose to associate that authority with "status" or "value"

[graceful basin]

To borrow the janitor analogy -- a janitor has more keys than an employee, and has the authority to ask an employee e.g. not to use a common space while it's being cleaned. Yet I don't think anyone would argue that a janitor is a superior of an employee.

[royal lake]

Nuh-uh

[tardy rain]

Jannie are you ok, are you ok jannie

[brazen ingot]

fair it makes sense

[jaunty wraith]

Well, excluding you

[brazen ingot]

where did sir lance go

[quasi blaze]

Doesn’t matter if they exercise their authority or not. That’s not what I am arguing against. It’s the fact they have the authority.

The owner has the highest value of authority over the entire server; They are on top of the hierarchal structure. How can this be refuted?

[wooden silo]

At my employer the project manager technically has authority over the team, but they rarely choose to exercise that authority, but rather most decisions are made jointly and primarily informed by whoever has most expertise in the question at hand. It doesn't feel like the PM is superior to me in any way on a day to day basis.

They are more of an organizer or a guide than a "boss".

But in theory they could put their foot down. They just don't.

[honest star]

hey that's me!

[young shoal]

you do kinda talk funny

[grave cove]

this is crazy 😭😭😭

[honest star]

I can mostly understand Dutch from a loose "hey this is the general subject" but boy howdy do they look at Afrikaaners funny if we talk

[wooden silo]

In some hierarchical systems, there's a cultural expectation of respect and dignity afforded to those higher up in the ladder. This is distinct from whether they have authority or not. You can have an authority hierarchy without the culture of dignity and respect.

[wooden silo]

I guess it's in the same realm as the relationship between Danish, Norwegian and Swedish.

[solemn tulip]

Echt? Ik had geen idee

[solemn tulip]

dutch and the scandinavian languages are weirdly similar at times

[honest star]

Fun fact, I cannot read afrikaans but it doesn't matter because of how phonetic it is. I can just subvocalize and be totally fine

It just kills my reading speed

[wooden silo]

They are quite closely related, after all.

[solemn tulip]

dutch has some weird-ass sounds though

back of throat sounds

[stark prawn]

The only south african word you need is biltong

[honest star]

"echt" in afrikaans would be "regtig"? pronounced "ragh-taugh?"

[honest star]

so true

[jaunty wraith]

What does that mean?

[honest star]

essentially it's jerky, but like better

[stark prawn]

It's a type of south african dried meat

[honest star]

biltong >>>>>>>>

[jaunty wraith]

Bull tongue?

[wooden silo]

Does "regtig" mean something like "correct" "proper" "true"?

[honest star]

"really?" is the closest I have

[solemn tulip]

oh, that's very familiar, swedish has that word for that exact meaning

I guess german has both

echt and richtig

slightly different meanings

[honest star]

bill-tohng

[wooden silo]

We have "riktig" in Swedish, which means what I said, and we don't really use it exactly that way, but the meaning is very close

[honest star]

afrikaans is weirdly stripped down compared to its similar dutch counterparts

[solemn tulip]

"på riktigt?"

[wooden silo]

Yeah, though it's not as common as "really?" in English

[solemn tulip]

I guess "verkligen?" is closer

[solemn tulip]

that is probably also in dutch

[wooden silo]

I think there's just several expressions that fit the bill and none of them are as common as "really?"

[solemn tulip]

it is in german at least

[stark prawn]

I have no idea what verkliggen in dutch would be

[wooden silo]

"verkligen?" "va?" "på riktigt?" "seriöst?", etc.

[honest star]

but yeah, afrikaans was really shaped by the zulu and botswana people by the simplicity of their languages. Afrikaans is not a difficult language to learn or speak once you know the sounds. Any difficult or redundant vocabulary? Thrown the fuck out

I'm planning on going back to South Africa in 2027 and really wanna re-learn tswana

[solemn tulip]

granted "really?" "what?" "for real?" "seriously?"

[wooden silo]

Yeah, that's true

Though among those I still think "på riktigt?" is the least common

[solemn tulip]

it feels kinda awkward and archaic

though I could see it being used in some circumstances

[wooden silo]

It feels a bit awkward to me

Maybe some people like to use it more frequently than others

[solemn tulip]

it's more like it's kinda circumstantial

[wooden silo]

Feeling out the usage patterns of my own native language always makes my head spin

At first it's like "it's 100% like this" but then you're like "but actually..." and then there's a thousand exceptions and caveats

[stark prawn]

That's very cool

[solemn tulip]

some context like "are you making this up?"

there it would be fairly natural

[wooden silo]

I could picture this: "jag ska till maldiverna i oktober" "åh, på riktigt? najsss" in which case it's just a casual "wow, really?"

[solemn tulip]

werkelijk

[lunar shore]

Is it necessary to understand things like agile frameworks, like "Scrum", to find a job in programming?

[robust zephyr]

I don't think there is a lot to understand. Most companies don't even really implement Agile Methodlogy. They just call it agile because they like the idea of being able to keep making changes and shipping frequently

[lunar shore]

Ah...