what's confusing about it?
#ot1-perplexing-regexing
solemn tulip
A term x² + 2bx can be factored into (x + b)² - b²
i.e. you can eliminate the linear term
that's all there is to it, other than some shuffling around
pulsar dragon
is there any bot which can generate codes
lament cairn
is there any bot which can generate codes
what codes?
jovial oriole
Perhaps
Mostly just browser games, sometimes doom64 or minecraft or fortnite
I keep getting 35 fps on browser games it pissed me off
smoky barn
.latex $$6x^{2}-5x-4$$
median domeBOT
solemn tulip
glossy niche
I just draw a cross rotated 45 degrees lol
smoky barn
weird X
solemn tulip
I just draw a cross rotated 45 degrees lol
this x is actually less effort for me than that
squiggly thing going down right, lift pen up quickly before continuing down right
like a backwards α
but lifting the pen
squiggly forces you to actually get the stroke down all the way low, even when writing quickly
smoky barn
watc this
median domeBOT
solemn tulip
the bottom right ones are nightmares from physics
smoky barn
i did wrong 😡
solemn tulip
ξ η ζ
solemn tulip
idk
smoky barn
•
solemn tulip
compose key 😎
small coral
handwriting....
glossy niche
I miss solving math on paper tbh
smoky barn
ur pen is ass
smoky barn
I miss solving math on paper tbh
i can give u one
solemn tulip
ur pen is ass
penmanship or pen?
glossy niche
i can give u one
give what
solemn tulip
penmanship or pen?
it's a cheap-ass pen at the office
smoky barn
it's a cheap-ass pen at the office
xd
glossy niche
integral e^2
solemn tulip
integral e^2
xe^2 + C 🙃
median domeBOT
smoky barn
xe^2 + C 🙃
when they start adding fucking x's
then u need derivative and shit starts becoming hard
.latex $$\int_{\pi}^{\frac{\pi}{4}} e^2 , dx = e^2 \left[ x \right]_{\pi}^{\frac{\pi}{4}} = e^2 \left( \frac{\pi}{4} - \pi \right)$$
median domeBOT
pulsar dragon
what codes?
python
low chasm
I keep getting 35 fps on browser games it pissed me off
I wouldn't go for anything fancy then, a 3060 is fine.
or well, tbh are you sure it's an issue with your current apu
young shoal
I also do this
cringe
solemn tulip
young shoal
integrating a constant is wild
solemn tulip
almost as wild as integrating e^x
robust zephyr
You think someone would do that, just integrate e^x?
smoky barn
i think only the x i write different
i used to write in squares
every letter every number a square
Times news square
smoky barn
I did that way way ago
yea italic writinf too
glossy niche
you may not like it, but this is what peak ux looks like
discord ux designers deserve a lead pipe to the balls
tardy rain
Im getting a crowbar on my birthday for this exact reason
Actually im getting the crowbar to pry peoples kneecaps off but close enough
strange blade
that's all there is to it, other than some shuffling around
It's confusing when b isn't an integer
I dislike dealing with surds and fractions
native kindle
that's nice
strange blade
oh you want to use completing the square to factor a polynomial
I don't want to.
It's just school enforced
Mandatory in the Australian curriculum
solemn tulip
I don't want to.
I guess you could also just find the zeroes and you're done
strange blade
yeah but some questions in the assessment are like:
solve this by completing the square
solve this using the quadratic formula
solve this using some weird stuff that you didn't learn about at all in class
solemn tulip
oh, "solve by this specific method" is lame
strange blade
school is lame
solemn tulip
it depends
the stuff in school that is just rote memorization sucks
thankfully most of math isn't that
at least at slightly higher levels
early math does kinda suck
strange blade
Yeah, I'm doing early math
jovial oriole
SO users debating if a couple more clock cycles is worth readibility lmao
carmine apex
SO users debating if a couple more clock cycles is worth readibility lmao
phone camera screenshot
also commenting about readibility rip
jovial oriole
> phone camera screenshot
<:shame:851932196863213588>
Cope
undone thorn
SO users debating if a couple more clock cycles is worth readibility lmao
I wonder what the context of this question is
if people are just arguing for the sake or arguing or if op mentioned something about it being a performance critical application where speed needs to take priority
carmine apex
jovial oriole
if people are just arguing for the sake or arguing or if op mentioned something ...
Asking how to get the # of digits in an integer
Literally nothing else to it
"If we ran this on a shitatron 8000 from the 60s it wouldnt be backwards compatible and this addition operation costs 1 extra cycle"
undone thorn
lol
rough sapphire
SO users debating if a couple more clock cycles is worth readibility lmao
I'm sad to say that I agree with SO users
fringe rain
SO users debating if a couple more clock cycles is worth readibility lmao
whats the alternative
crystal spruce
figured it out
like it is quite trivial after you just write down the definitions
i see why he didn't put it in now
if H/N is abelian, then for any r,s in H, that means (rN)(sN) = (rs)N = (sr)N = (sN)(rN)
so rs = srn for some n in N and thus rsr^-1s^-1 = n in N
since every 3 cycle can be written as a commutator of 2 3 cycles as he demonstrated
every 3 cycle must also be in N
I guess looking at it this is just that H/N being abelian implies [H, H] ss N
strange blade
huh wow
spiral drift
Guys is any PC expert willing to help me with a problem in my pc?
brazen ingot
is this gallian’s text
crystal spruce
serge lang's algebra
brazen ingot
ah yeah fair
strange blade
btw I didn't understand the explanation but I'll work on it later
brazen ingot
i had it downloaded but never read group theory from this, only constructive algebra
strange blade
I guess looking at it this is just that `H/N` being abelian implies `[H, H] ss N...
.bm look at this later
median domeBOT
brazen ingot
if u really want to be good at math start off with order theory
crystal spruce
i don't really care
brazen ingot
same i read new texts sporadically
strange blade
why have DMs off?
trust issues
brazen ingot
let me guess ur pfp
brazen ingot
no the scams are possible consequence of ur pfp? since its a girl i assume
crystal spruce
I get weird old sugar daddy scams
discord's spam inbox feature does quite well against those for me
strange blade
mine doesn't
brazen ingot
frieren ru prepping for imo
strange blade
too stupid
strange blade
fr
carmine apex
a certain pydis member here used to get inappropriate messages because of their name. changed it to a dude's name, and the messages went away 😔
brazen ingot
was it a staff
strange blade
If I'm going for anything, it'd be IOI
strange blade
IMO's harder to get in
brazen ingot
no it isnt
strange blade
Australia's IOI team usually is pretty easy to get in
thick ore
If I'm going for anything, it'd be IOI
io interactive??
strange blade
international olympiad for informatics
undone thorn
Tf is imo and ioi
brazen ingot
Australia's IOI team usually is pretty easy to get in
@digital oracle
strange blade
imo is international maths oly
undone thorn
Oh
brazen ingot
ioi enrolls just algorithms but mathematics which is very not intuitive
if u read all volumes knuth text ull see what i mean
strange blade
my head cpu didn't understand those sentences but trust me, Australia's team is not that hard
brazen ingot
ioi here is reasonably tough since less seats for tc
undone thorn
Is it like something prestigious
undone thorn
Like a college or employer would care?
strange blade
College probably
brazen ingot
in imo nowdays ud see exponentially higher number of students resulting in more competition
strange blade
But it's harder to get into the IMO team here than it is to get into the IOI team
brazen ingot
probably
strange blade
It's more realistic for me to aim for IOI than IMO
brazen ingot
r u good at math
strange blade
brazen ingot
ah ok so i suppose the contrary, r u good with algorithms?
strange blade
brazen ingot
ah u need to study day night
wait i hope u adequate time to prepare for either of exam
strange blade
yeah like 3 years
brazen ingot
6 months is okay lol
strange blade
what
brazen ingot
yeah like 3 years
awesome use them very structurally
carmine apex
<a:softNopers:1099385112593961041>
using the correct version of fir emojis does not justify nor excuse using the incorrect version subsequently
strange blade
what if I feel soft today
strange blade
lol
brazen ingot
read a lot of theory, use wikipedia and make it a addiction. do problems learn from it afterwards things will be trivial; when it comes to solving problems and the idea think of it like pokémon, every theorem has a type advantage, you just gotta find the right one. the right theorem is just speedrunning theorems in my head until one doesn’t explode moreover half of intuition is just remembering which theorems caused you the most pain before at 3 am while u were trying to reminiscence it and sleep. 3 years is enormous amount of time.
strange blade
I don't care that much about ioi/imo
brazen ingot
welp
drowsy rose
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OfJYisHbkI why are like all the comments about osu
okay yeah no fair enough
summer spear
hello
lament cairn
thick osprey
uneven pine
Java is still shit
thick ore
elaborate
thick ore
thank you
fringe rain
people are understanding now
after being exposed to java radiation in my university, im starting to like it too
of course, as a syntax
not so much as a tooling
lament cairn
java tooling makes me want to peel my skin off
uneven pine
java language makes me want to commit toenail toothpick wall kick
glossy niche
Java is still shit
plush sun
Kerfus spotted
rough sapphire
https://tenor.com/view/reddit-reddit-gold-kind-stranger-slot-machine-gif-9286172...
dlien
dog alien
dlien
hollow cypress
hello!
Does anybody here upgrade their macbook pros every 3 years?
would it be worth purchasing the applecare+ for 3 years instead of annual if I do this upgrade every 3-4 yrs?
strange blade
Does anybody here upgrade their macbook pros every 3 years?
I don't
Apple care is kinda useless too
hollow cypress
Apple care is kinda useless too
think Im taking it because I plan on working outdoors, and could use it to replace the battery once it hits 80% health
strange blade
nah not really
hollow cypress
nice, thank you!
i remember working with a full stack dev who still rocks a 2017 mbp
stark prawn
low chasm
@rough sapphire how do you typically study?
are there any classes in particular that you're having trouble with?
tardy rain
How
rough sapphire
?
tardy rain
How do you study
Do you rewatch lectures, read your notes, go through a textbook, do exercises, etc
paper quest
I'd imagine that would be on the top of the list of things to try to get better grades 🤨
bronze root
i’m going to be honest i don’t even study
What do you actually call studying
low chasm
i’m going to be honest i don’t even study
that's part of the issue, then.
it's not fun, sure, but if you want to improve your grades you're going to have to put work in
rough sapphire
do you guys think grades matter that much?
paper quest
Grades matter to get the foot in the door in your career. You can usually go from there.
low chasm
do you guys think grades matter that much?
I mean, it depends. in lots of places, it's part of what's considered when you're applying for university
and like, you probably don't want to be failing your classes regardless
at the very least putting in effort to maintain your grades develops work ethic
harsh tundra
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/668076683357847563/1294367387696758805/ez...
The text says "don't mess around/don't act up", in slang... The original slang meaning (~2 decades at least) is actually more aggressive, "don't provoke me or else". I haven't seen it used in modern contexts, but i also don't mingle with crowd that uses this kind of slang
paper quest
Schools are partly babysitting so your parents can do their day job, and partly the gauntlet that all kids have to run to prove to the world that they're tenacious and won't give up. If you can prove it in some other way, all the power to you, but a lot of people are just naturally going to take you less seriously if you flunked out of high school.
rough sapphire
for physics, doing practice problems is pretty beneficial.
alright
bronze root
Schools are partly babysitting so your parents can do their day job, and partly ...
That's quite a pessimistic take
paper quest
That's quite a pessimistic take
I know. I have more, too!
bronze root
I've mostly hated school until I got to prep levels (last step before getting into top engineering schools)
It's basically only there that we started having to think on our own
But here's the thing
You cannot think on your own if you have no basis at all
It was only when I realized that basically everything I've learned so far clicked into it's own place that I stopped ressenting school so much
paper quest
It's basically only there that we started having to think on our own
That does depend on the school system I would say. If your school system does not encourage critical thinking and problem solving from an early age, then sure. My understanding is that historically schools were focused on rote learning, but now they're more focused on the process and deeper understanding. But I'm sure it depends on country and on the individual school.
bronze root
I am not sure what the difference is
Critical thinking and problem solving does go along with getting used with the processes ..?
Don't get me wrong, many things can be done much better in education
However, I fail to see what the issue is with focusing on what you call the process and deeper understanding
paper quest
I mean, it would normally vary by subject, but a typical example is how in math, if you don't show your work, getting the right answer may not give any credit at all. Or, to take a physics example, you've memorized the formulas for motion, but you can't explain for instance why driving twice as fast quadruples the distance it takes to stop.
Don't know if my examples make sense or not. Maybe we're also talking about different things.
bronze root
I'll quote my math teacher for the first part:
"Okay, guys, let's be honest. None of you will remember how to do X or Y math problem in 10 years. In fact, I'd be surprised if you even remembered doing it at all.
However, what will stay with you is the process you repeated over and over to learn how to solve those problems. It's about how you've trained your brain to analyze your goal, consider the possible ways to achieve it, and select what, I hope, is the best path forward."
(heavily romantized and added explanations, it's been quite a while and I don't remember much anymore haha)
It's never been about the answer, we have calculators for that, we have wolframalpha, mathematica, and even gpt that can solve some surprisingly difficult problems
harsh tundra
That does depend on the school system I would say. If your school system does no...
I'm sure it depends on country
So what's your country?
Because what you said aligns with what I heard about US schools - that US schools didn't evolve much from the industrialisation times, where they just needed to teach uniform basics and then have the students become simple workforce... But nowadays it's underfunding and the amount of "standardised testing" (and how the results decide the funding, so everyone wants to get good results) that keeps a lot of teachers just teaching students how to fill the tests (monotonely revising simple info, just the basics and in the most boring way possible), instead of actual critical thinking skills...
bronze root
(Base — that is, non-vocational or specialized) — school doesn’t expect you to become anything specific or achieve anything significant in the fields you study. You’re just one number among many. What truly matters are the processes and ways of thinking you take away from it.
paper quest
> I'm sure it depends on country
So what's your country?
Because what you sai...
Norway, although I don't know how much that says. Most of what I know about the US system is stuff I've picked up by just hearing people talk about it 🙃
bronze root
As for physics, if have to learn formulas without having any intuition on why it's that way, then it's just poor teaching
I'm a bit surprised that you ended up with that take on educations while being from Norway thought, and would be curious to hear more about your experience. Last time I checked, Norway was praised as one of the best educationnal systems of the whole world
paper quest
I'll quote my math teacher for the first part:
"Okay, guys, let's be honest. No...
That seems like a reasonable approach to teaching. Not "it's about using this formula in this way", but "how do you approach getting an answer in these various disciplines". I'd count that as teaching the kids to "think for themselves" tbh.
paper quest
I'm a bit surprised that you ended up with that take on educations while being f...
Which take? Not sure what you're referring to 🙂
bronze root
Take as in, having a very low esteem of schools in general
paper quest
Ah. You mean the cynicism 😛
bronze root
Yes
paper quest
Don't get me wrong. I think education is important. I just think the importance of the actual things you learn are overstated. You learn discipline, you learn tenacity, and you ideally learn how to learn. But from a societal point of view, I honestly believe that the main benefit you get from school in a practical sense is getting something universally understood to refer to.
low chasm
> I'm sure it depends on country
So what's your country?
Because what you sai...
in the U.S. schools very a lot county by county, so you really can't generalize
paper quest
I believe there are studies showing that the diploma at the end is what really matters for your prospective opportunities later in life, compared to the hours you put in before that.
low chasm
I've had a pretty good high school education with stellar teachers, but I also live in a very well off county (in the U.S., that is)
bronze root
I believe there are studies showing that the diploma at the end is what really m...
Can't disagree with that, but you cannot get a diploma if you didn't study for it I suppose
brazen ingot
ipad 18 now has calculators for us mathematicians
paper quest
Can't disagree with that, but you cannot get a diploma if you didn't study for i...
That honestly depends too. I was a kid who breezed through school with barely any studying. Some kids just pick things up, others have to work harder for it. Life is unfair I suppose.
bronze root
Same case here (until prep school), but I just feel like it depends on how you started as a kid
low chasm
it's pretty common here for kids who didn't have to study in high school having a pretty rude awakening in uni
since they never really learned how to properly study
bronze root
Haha, definitively lived through that
low chasm
or just like, kids who were in advanced education in earlier grades having that rude awakening later in high school
gifted programs, for example
paper quest
Same case here (until prep school), but I just feel like it depends on how you s...
That is a fair point as well. Some are more disadvantaged than others. I grew up with relatively highly educated parents, one of which is specialized in children and the way they grow up and learn, so I probably was very lucky.
bronze root
Went from 90+% avg to 15% avg for the first few weeks at prep school
Had to work my way back up over 2 years to 75%
Albeit, prep school grading compares you to the country's best students, so everything is a bit more spread out
100% is only for the one at the top
paper quest
I think one of the only reasons I didn't have a rude awakening at uni is because I was scared of being one of the ones who had a rude awakening. I think I started putting in some more work around then. But not really as much as other people I've heard from, so it amazes me I did as well as I did looking back.
paper quest
Computers. The degree was called "Computer Technology" which it was explained to me was basically "Computer Science but with less math".
There was a bunch of overlap.
grave cove
or just like, kids who were in advanced education in earlier grades having that ...
you're tweaking if you had a rude awakening in high school
they be passing everyone nowadays
low chasm
you're tweaking if you had a rude awakening in high school
lmao, it wasn't uncommon here
I think the biggest one was ap econ last year
everyone took it since it had a reputation as an easy AP
but they switched out teachers, and the new guy was brutal
like half the class dropped out
he's a fantastic teacher, but from what I heard, the workload for that class was borderline insane
harsh tundra
Computers. The degree was called "Computer Technology" which it was explained to...
Not all CS degrees are the same.
My uni had to rename programme I took because after some changes in law, it couldn't have the same-named programme on several faculties, with different curriculum
rough sapphire
Went from 90+% avg to 15% avg for the first few weeks at prep school
wtf
paper quest
Not all CS degrees are the same.
My uni had to rename programme I took because ...
True, so I don't know whether that uni's CS corresponds to any other place's CS. Just one of my many ignorances.
Just comparing names of programs within the same uni though.
harsh tundra
I mean, before that change, my uni had 3 CS programmes, on 3 different faculties.
Only 2 actually mattered - because who tf studies CS on electrical engineering faculty? It was always maths&information science faculty vs electronics&information technology faculty.
The ee's CS/informatics got renamed to Applied CS/Informatics (Informatyka -> Informatyka Stosowana)
Electronics had CS first so they kept original name.
Maths got theirs renamed to "Informatyka i systemy informacyjne", "cs/informatics and information systems"
rough sapphire
The text says "don't mess around/don't act up", in slang... The original slang m...
idek what that says lol
glossy niche
I mean, before that change, my uni had 3 CS programmes, on 3 different faculties...
oh, thats very interesting 
how are these 3 different?
harsh tundra
idek what that says lol
That's why I explained it. It could've been worse, considering the number of "memes" that are cute pic and some disturbing text (e.g. slurs, encouraging self-harm)
harsh tundra
how are these 3 different?
Different curriculum.
Idk the electrical, but electronics faculty dealt with some hardware and lower level stuff. Maths had basically a balance between what electronics had and very theoretical approach of non-engineering uni.
That's also how an older friend (who studied there) explained those to me when I was deciding on uni. XD University of Warsaw being the most theory, Electronics at Polytechnic (formally use "Warsaw University of Technology" name) was quite practical... And maths faculty was in the middle XD
robust zephyr
That bunny outfit is 🔥
glossy niche
he does this a lot on twitter, more talk about femboying round than actually programming
bro was drafted into the js factory and couldnt pursue his passion
also iirc hes actually a front end dev in his job, he did all this framework shit as a side gig
round pendant
https://youtu.be/jjxu614FG80?si he really did it huh
amazing
glossy niche
i actually havent watched past the 1st min, brain fried from js
if i see another js dev using a class, instantiating it, and only using it once to call 1 method instead of just using a function like a thing of the homo genus im going back to C++
strange blade
W lookahead
scarlet peak
W lookahead
i thought this was talking about regex for a second
carmine apex
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1202651228820209724/1276428976239153192...
the image is too noisy, so the compiler can't read the code due to insuffieicnt SNR
also forgot to set the evil bit
grave cove
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1202651228820209724/1276428976239153192...
yap
rough sapphire
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1202651228820209724/1276428976239153192...
your compiler dosent want you to cheat
drowsy rose
he does this a lot on twitter, more talk about femboying round than actually pro...
vro probably has 5 phds and 3 nobel prizes
acoustic moss
based beyond belief
glossy niche
The production of too many useful things results in too many useless people
harsh tundra
Kitty
rose hare
man when will google put gemini into https://translate.google.com/
ik it's just a few clicks + words away from gemini chat but still
vale raven
man when will google put gemini into https://translate.google.com/
ik it's just ...
Why do you need that?
lament cairn
translation
lunar grove
man when will google put gemini into https://translate.google.com/
ik it's just ...
Translate + Gemini interesting but I can’t inagine a use case scenario
rose hare
Why do you need that?
cause google translate by itself sucks
like llm translate isn't the best, but usually better than usual MTL
carmine apex
i'm surprised nobody big's tried to make a good latin translator yet
goodhart's law, though, tbf
rose hare
Translate + Gemini interesting but I can’t inagine a use case scenario
have you considered that using gemini to translate would have better quality than whatever google translate is using
eg language specific idioms, special meaning that depends on context, ect
even p small llms destroy traditional MTL in this regard
like I can go:
Context: blah blah blah
Given the above context, translate the following into english:
<text in other language>
```and the translation would get a lot of nuances right
thick ore
katex 😃
reef goblet
lets hope it happends
grave cove
https://x.com/DiscordPreviews/status/1897095994342506764
massive
carmine apex
.latex in shambles
thick ore
.latex
\text{in shambles}
crystal spruce
would be huge
solemn tulip
.latex
\text{\huge in shambles}
stark prawn
.latex
\text{\massive low taper fade}```.latex
\text{\Huge if true}
solemn tulip
my skip manager has a tendency to be maybe too terse, seeing a big bold [RUN] as a group chat message reads pretty worrying until it was made clear it was really ||"I'm going for a run, anyone want to join"||
glossy niche
real
glossy niche
glossy niche
chat I think i accidentally baked bread in my dish washer
I had a mixture of some white flour + water in a bowl which I used to clue some samosas shut
and I put it in the dishwasher but some of it was left stuck to the bowl
couldn't wash it all off so I hoped it would melt off
It got even more stuck
🗿
brazen ingot
https://x.com/DiscordPreviews/status/1897095994342506764
awesome
hexed pumice
@lost marlin
pls
i wanna tell you one last thing
pls?
you can block me after 😦
rough sapphire
can somebody check for me the Golang discord server offtopic channel?
hexed pumice
@lost marlin
hushed sun
Hello!
Would the M4 Air suffice for Software Dev/ DevOps/ Full Stack career?
with 24gb ram 512gb storage
or would it be wiser to go with the M4 Pro?
MacBooks
Im heading into my final CS year for university ^^
solid elbow
Would the M4 Air suffice for Software Dev/ DevOps/ Full Stack career?
I'd expect your employer to provide you with a computer to use
hushed sun
I'd expect your employer to provide you with a computer to use
Oh really? That's sweet lol. What about for my final year of study? I do want to carry on using this if the employer doesn't give one
solid elbow
in my experience, employers won't even allow you to use a personal device for work. It's an unnecessary security risk
hushed sun
in my experience, employers won't even _allow you_ to use a personal device for ...
fair enough, makes sense
low chasm
Would the M4 Air suffice for Software Dev/ DevOps/ Full Stack career?
I'd be kind of surprised if it didn't (but also, what godly said)
hushed sun
I think the airs are too light and fragile
honestly the Pro models arent even heavy
like I've walked around the city at uni with it in my backpack and it's so light
can imagine the airs to be even lighter and why people like their portability a lot
uneven pine
I dunno, for a 14 inch laptop the m4 mbp is pretty chunky.
glossy niche
uneven pine
Man
sick nexus
@wispy sundial
uneven pine
My mbp is on the floor in an oversized bag rn
I take that shit to work. It's gonna get scratched
sick nexus
<@323482775476895745>
If you took piles of 5 cards and used insertion-sort to sort them, you'd find that in the worst case, you'd need 25 comparisons to sort them.
For 6 cards, you'd need 36 comparisons in the worst case.
For 8 cards you'd need 64 comparisons.
And for 10 cards you'd need 100.
Now, the exact number of comparisons is NOT what we care about measuring. What we care about is: if we graph the number of comparisons, the graph makes a Parabola
So, here's a practical question
What does the parabola tell us about Insertion-sort?
It tells us this: if we need to sort 20 million cards, it's going to take forever!
uneven pine
You sound like a professor who just got their second wind in the middle of their career and suddenly is passionate about what they're talking about again for a short time
sick nexus
So, if we need to sort 20 million cards, what algorithm should we use instead of insertion-sort?
There are lots of possible answers. One of them is called Merge-sort
Why is merge sort better for sorting 20 million cards?
Because it makes the blue graph!
If we use merge sort instead of insertion sort, we can sort the cards way faster.
This is what O notation is measuring. It's not measuring the exact amount of work, it's measuring how the number of cards changes the amount of work.
The red graph is N^2. The blue graph is N * log N
The reason we drop constants is because they don't change the shape of the graph.
N^2 + 50 is still just a square parabola.
N^2 + 50 has the same shape as N^2, so we simplify it to just N^2.
graceful basin
the important part here is that 100000 * N * log N will still be less than 0.000001 * N^2 given sufficiently large N
sick nexus
Also true!
wispy sundial
If we use merge sort instead of insertion sort, we can sort the cards *way faste...
I mean, it sound off, with algorithm we try to lower amount of operations for some sort of task, so we try to use information we got to lower the need to do use linear operation
if we can skip some elements its common sense that it gonna be faster
sick nexus
That doesn't apply here. We're sorting piles of randomized cards.
Even if it did apply, making an algorithm slightly more efficient won't help you much if your algorithm doesn't scale.
wispy sundial
I just vagually know bubble-sort take biggest and move to the back xD
sick nexus
Can you tell me how bubble-sort would scale to the problem of sorting 20 million cards?
wispy sundial
im not sure what you mean by scale, i just know it would be super slow
sick nexus
im not sure what you mean by scale, i just know it would be super slow
How much slower would it be than sorting 10 million cards?
sick nexus
Bubble sort is N^2
So 20 million cards takes four times as long to sort as 10 million cards
wispy sundial
is that 2 because we need to use 2 loop? if i remember one for linearly walking and other to linearly walk and check?
sick nexus
Yes
If you have one loop which needs to happen at most N times,
And another loop which executes the inner loop at most N times,
that's N * N total times
Also known as N^2
graceful basin
note that not all nested loops end up quadratic in complexity (e.g. turtle-hare algorithms).
wispy sundial
Also known as `N^2`
that ^2 means squared?
wispy sundial
note that not all nested loops end up quadratic in complexity (e.g. turtle-hare ...
my shady mind just read turtle-harem, sorry
sick nexus
Ok, now let's look at merge sort again with the same question
wispy sundial
Well i dont know a lot of algorithms, i mentioned that i just started, merge sort sounds like you take small amount of elements sort them and merge them in without need of looping all things?
sick nexus
It's a rhetorical question. I'm not trying to explain how to calcualte complexity (yet), I'm trying to explain what complexity even is
So how much slower is sorting 20 million cards than sorting 10 million, with merge sort?
Bubble sort was 4 times slower.
But merge sort is only a little more than 2 times slower.
wispy sundial
narrow coral
blame the mathematicians
Imma blame the snek ppl for not using ^ for exponent :p
wispy sundial
I cant visualize things with big numbers xD
sick nexus
Well surely you understand that "four times as slow" is worse than "about twice as slow"
wispy sundial
i mean, my mind digs deeper to understand, but if i take what its written 4 > 2
sick nexus
Right
That's the point of all this.
It's important that we can quantify how algorithms perform when you give them larger and larger workloads.
Algorithm A becomes 4x as slow when you double its workload.
Algorithm B becomes only about 2x as slow when you double its workload.
That's very useful information.
Understand what we're calculating now?
wispy sundial
i mean, in this case we comparing how fast different algorithms perform under the same load of data
sick nexus
That's still wrong
We're comparing how they scale to different loads of data.
"double the workload" is what I mean by scale
wispy sundial
Is it something like we got a car and the more troleys we connect the car speed gonna drop type of shit
sick nexus
Not quite.
how much does it drop for every trolley you connect?
That's what we care about.
wispy sundial
In that sense it would be O(n) speed decrease for each troley
sick nexus
That's right! If you have 4 trolleys already, adding a 5th doesn't make the car lose half its speed
It will only go a little slower
How many trolleys would you need to add, to make the car go half as fast?
(assume the car is weightless)
wispy sundial
Im thinking but its hard 😄
sick nexus
It's easy. To halve the car's speed, you'd need to double the number of trolleys.
Twice as much work = half as much speed. That's a linear relationship.
Let's call the number of trolleys N
The amount of work the car has to do to pull N trolleys to its final destination is... O(N)
twice the trolleys, twice the time the trip takes.
sick nexus
twice the trolleys, twice the time the trip takes.
That's what O notation is for communicating.
wispy sundial
O is like time to relation of size or something like that
sick nexus
Yes
exactly
It's obvious that time and data size have a relationship. But in different algorithms, they have different relationships
For insertion sort, 2x the cards -> at most, 4x the time. So we write it as O(N^2)
wispy sundial
what if you have to use 2 algorithms together? like sort_search function, the time complexity of sort and search would be of they own algorithm but the whole function would have combined?
sick nexus
what if you have to use 2 algorithms together? like sort_search function, the ti...
Then things get complicated
Well, for simple algorithms it's not bad
wispy sundial
probably very math related
sick nexus
If you have an algorithm which is N^2
And that algorithm runs inside another algorith, at most N times
that's N * N^2 total work
wispy sundial
like buble sort and linear search
sick nexus
Which is just N^3
wispy sundial
I feel like at this point i just need practice and that all
sick nexus
Yeah, I think you understand what you're calculating now, which is important
How about this? If we have an N^2 algorithm which we always run 4 times, what's the O?
4 * N^2? The thing is, the 4 doesn't change the relationship between time and N
wispy sundial
i would say we drop constants
gentle topaz
Yo can I speak
sick nexus
But why do we drop it here?
gentle topaz
Plz
wispy sundial
because it doesnt alter the time
sick nexus
because it doesnt alter the time
It does change the total time, but it doesn't change the time with respect to N
gentle topaz
What am I, a cop?
Wdym my broski
wispy sundial
It does change the total time, but it doesn't change the time with respect to N
Oh so it alters the time but its too small to care?
sick nexus
Oh so it alters the time but its too small to care?
It always multiplies the time by 4. The time's relationship to N isn't affected.
gentle topaz
Aight safe guys ima go jork off
wispy sundial
Aight safe guys ima go jork off
I wonder whats time complexity of that
sick nexus
4*N might be easier to demonstrate than 4*N^2
If you have an O(N) algorithm, 2x N = 2x the time
If you have a O(4 * N) algorithm, 2x N still = 2x the time
That's why we drop the 4, and O(4 * N) simplifies to O(N).
wispy sundial
oh, the time in actual seconds would be different so even if our algo run in 10secons if we increase the size twice its gonn run twice longer
so if we got 4*n or n it doesnt matter if we 2x N the time is 2x
wispy sundial
so for example:
N is 10
4*n = 4*10 = 40
n = 10
if we increase N to 20
4*n = 4*20 = 80
n = 20
So by comparing we increase 2x times, so we dont look for actual number but the amount times it increases
gentle topaz
Admin I’ll sned 7 vbuvks to let me speak
Time to start a REBELLION
UNITE
Yo this guys is sharing too much personal information 😭😭😭😭
Nah respect it though
robust zephyr
I recommend not spamming the chat about this. If a moderator sees it they may extend your voice verification time
You need to meet these requiresments to speak in voice #voice-verification
wispy sundial
I never seen a wild yapper, so thats how they look like 🫢
gentle topaz
Th e disrespect is mad
At least muffin was being kind and like a gentle mother figure
Not a meanie
wispy sundial
no disrespect, im a veteran yapper myself
glossy niche
english poetry actually not bad when it uses a a scale
reef goblet
english poetry actually not bad when it uses a a scale
Iambic pentameter
narrow coral
@sick nexus now u owe me an explanation of why alignment and padding is a thing when it comes to structs
sick nexus
<@156556663124525056> now u owe me an explanation of why alignment and padding i...
^ Best reading material on the subject I think
narrow coral
http://www.catb.org/esr/structure-packing/
What they don't explain is why tho
They only mentioned that its because cpu can fetch stuff faster but why?
Ive been told that its because cpu can only read discrete blocks
So like it reads block 0 and then block 8 (65th bit to 128th bit) and continues
But is this really true?
narrow coral
Yeah
sick nexus
Ok, I'm trying to find some good material on the subject
A basic version is: the CPU has a thing called the Memory Chip Controller
MCC
HERE we go: http://denethor.wlu.ca/pc300/memory/mem_lec.html
These lecture notes should help I think
There are images
Actually, this might not be useful, 1s
Ok no, this still doesn't cover the relevant part. Sorry
@narrow coral So internally to the RAM chip, memory cells get split into blocks of some size.
And the MCC basically says to the RAM chip "I want the contents of this block"
And the RAM chip sends the data back over the memory bus
If you have a value which spans two blocks
then the RAM chip has to query the first block
And then query the second block
RAM architecture is really complicated but that's the gist of what's relevant
narrow coral
I think I get it, one question still remains but lemme get back to that later
I had the wrong interpretation of memory ig
I used to think that every byte is assigned an address
sick nexus
Every byte is assigned an address, but we don't fetch bytes one at a time. We always fetch them in bulk
narrow coral
But from the image u sent, it looks like every address is associated towards a block of 64 bits at a time
Instead of every single byte
sick nexus
The way a RAM chip internally does addressing is different from how addressing works at the instruction-set layer
There's a layer of abstraction, where the CPU takes an address of the type you're familiar with ("I want this byte") and translates it to what the RAM understands ("I want all the bytes in this block")
narrow coral
Got it
okay so my last question is
Why does this struct gets padding (i think it does but not sure)
struct {
i32 x;
// Padding
i8 y;
}
Ah, good question actually
It's because C guarantees elements in an array are always touching
There's no padding allowed between array elements
struct S {
int32_t x;
int8_t y;
uint8_t _pad[3];
};
void foo() {
struct S array[2];
char *p = &array[0]; // p points at start of array[0] S.x
p += sizeof(struct S); // p now points at start of array[1] S.x
}```If sizeof(struct S) were 5, then p would be increasing by 5 here, which is out of alignment. So array[1] would have to be out of alignment for this to be valid, which is bad.
If we increase the size of struct S to 8 (using 3 bytes of padding), p += sizeof(struct S) increases it by 8, and alignment is preserved.
The reason arrays can't have padding between elements is to preserve this behavior, also. If sizeof(S) were allowed to be 5, and we had 3 bytes of padding in the array, it would be harder to find the start of array[1] using pointer arithmetic.
narrow coral
That explains everything
My long awaited question has finally been answered lol
narrow coral
There's a layer of abstraction, where the CPU takes an address of the type you'r...
Btw, after the cpu receives a block, what does the cpu do with it to get the exact byte it needs?
Does it do a logical and?
sick nexus
Btw, after the cpu receives a block, what does the cpu do with it to get the exa...
Yeah basically. It knows which byte to get from the block and then extracts the byte from it
It has to translate an address "this byte" into "byte N from this block"
It asks the RAM for "this block"
then it gets "byte N" from the result
sick nexus
I haven't personally read it, but the book Digital Design and Computer Architecture by David Harris comes recommended from a highly reliable colleague
narrow coral
Btw i have increased my suspicious that u r a witch now
U have been awake for 12 hours 🤨
sick nexus
You can skip the sections on logic gates etc. if you want to get right to the comparch stuff in that book
Chapter 8 is the stuff relevant to this discussion
narrow coral
👍
sick nexus
This might also be relevant reading, though it's very dense: https://docs.amd.com/r/en-US/pg313-network-on-chip/DRAM-Addressing
I hope one of these or the other helps. Sorry I don't have the best resources off the top of my head
Trying to find worthwhile stuff on the fly
sick nexus
This might also be relevant reading, though it's very dense: https://docs.amd.co...
Yeah this seems more relevant to the question than that book actually. I skimmed the contents and the book does explain some stuff, but doesn't seem to go into details on RAM internals. This AMD doc is more applicable
@narrow coral
This is basically a much better version of what I was trying to explain LOL
Unlike static RAM (SRAM) in which access to any location is treated equally, DRAM has a specific structure which makes access to different parts incur different overhead. The structure of a typical DRAM includes rows, columns, banks, bank groups, etc.
A DRAM row (or ‘page’) is a block of DRAM space that shares some internal resources and has to be 'opened’ before access to it is possible. A row contains many columns. A typical DRAM may contain 64K rows. Switching between rows incurs a performance penalty due to the required closing of the current row and opening the next row using ‘Precharge’ and ‘Activate’ DRAM commands, and the mandatory minimum allowed time interval between such commands and the next read or write operation.
A DRAM column is a single addressable memory location. A typical DRAM row contains 1024 columns.
A DRAM bank is a group of rows. Within each bank, only a single row can be ‘open’ at any time, and switching between rows is costly. By having multiple banks, multiple rows can be open simultaneously, and switching between rows in different banks can be very efficient. Precharge and Activate commands to different banks can be scheduled concurrently. Typical DDR4 components have 16 banks.
As components got faster and more sophisticated, the concept of bank groups was added (for example in DDR4 and HBM). For example, a DDR4 DRAM has 16 banks arranged in 4 bank groups. A new restriction was added: when switching between banks belonging to different bank groups, there is no performance penalty, but when switching between banks belonging to the same bank group, there is a mandatory wait time of a few clock cycles, leading to lower performance.
Other DRAM partitions such as rank, logical rank (in 3DS), and HBM stack ID (SID) also have some performance implications similar to banks and bank groups.
computer engineering is complicated and I only know a little about it TBH
narrow coral
I hope one of these or the other helps. Sorry I don't have the best resources of...
Dont worry
I understood everything :)
Basically i was wrong about cpu would fetch data from ram and the use of padding is to avoid multiple reads from different blocks
sick nexus
yep exactly 👏 from a programmer's perspective that's all that matters
narrow coral
xD
I used to think that cpu would get a single byte everytime :p
Or rather it would ask for specific bytes one at a time (like first the i32, then i8, then i64, depending on the fields of the struct)
Makes sense for it to fetch at bulk
Oh also, paging :p
I know what it is and how it works but i keep forgetting about its existence :p
glossy niche
yall got recommendedations for work out tracking apps? for sets and reps an
and times
dapper dew
I like Jefit
glossy niche
I like Jefit
oh it looks nice, ty
dapper dew
I don't take advantage of the different workouts you can make, I just have one "workout" that has all of the exercises I do
I just do whichever exercises I can given the time / availability of equipment / muscle rotation
It's nice to track the numbers go up, and helps me remember what weight / number of reps I was at last time
glossy niche
hmmm, I do want it for a home work out and just that
dapper dew
I think they should have all of the common body weight exercises in the app
stark prawn
I go to a gymn with digital machines that track that stuff themselves
dapper dew
That sounds pretty sweet
glossy niche
my work out is 15s break 30s work, the exercises are as follows:
jumping Jack's
burpees
planks
plank jack
mountain climber
military press
Russian twist
a couple things whose name idk
2 rounds of each
dapper dew
I go to a small gym that is the closest to me, so going after work is always a toss up depending on the crowd
In that case maybe just an interval timer would work to let you know when to switch / break
glossy niche
In that case maybe just an interval timer would work to let you know when to swi...
yeah those are actually great
wicked heath
What colours changed?
lament cairn
all of them
lament cairn
https://tenor.com/view/snow-leopard-camera-snow-leopard-pawing-at-you-snow-leopa...
hapy
robust zephyr
That poor leopard is just tryna take a nap and all those people are talking
lament cairn
orchid yacht
Hey, is anybody on? I just joined this server for some tips lol. I just started Python and I want to make JARVIS. I tried watching videos and asking others, but nothing is helping. Where can I go for help (which channel I mean)
old gyro
#python-discussion is good for quick questions and #1035199133436354600 for complex/time consuming problems
orchid yacht
Well, I didn't just start, but I'm still pretty new. I am basically 100% self taught and have been using Python for about a year
well, 8 months to a year -ish
orchid yacht
<#267624335836053506> is good for quick questions and <#1035199133436354600> fo...
okay, thank you
old gyro
Well, I didn't just start, but I'm still pretty new. I am basically 100% self ta...
oh nice! I did the same thing, hardest part is always getting out of the advanced beginner hell :p
orchid yacht
lol
Basically all I did for that long was make simple text adventure games in CodeHS (I was running on a school chromebook) I have a computer now but it sucked for the first like, 4-5 months
grave cove
Hey, is anybody on? I just joined this server for some tips lol. I just started ...
maybe see if the ChatGPT api provides their voice feature. it’s not gonna be like anything you see in the movie though
orchid yacht
yeah ik
I was just using Jarvis as a reference
I tried using OpenAI api keys but they made me pay 😭
robust zephyr
Hey, is anybody on? I just joined this server for some tips lol. I just started ...
You could look at existing implementations https://github.com/sukeesh/Jarvis
grave cove
I tried using OpenAI api keys but they made me pay 😭
well good AIs are expensive to train. you either have to pay someone else or put down a lot of money yourself
robust zephyr
This one is even written in Python
orchid yacht
You could look at existing implementations https://github.com/sukeesh/Jarvis
Sorry, but idk how to use Github 😭
I have an account but the interface is confusing for me lol
could you help?
robust zephyr
You're asking how to read code?
sick cloak
You have to keep exploring it until get familiar with that interface
Even I faced the same at the start
orchid yacht
You're asking how to read code?
No, what to do on the website or wtv
Okay
I just don't know what a lot of the stuff does lol
sick cloak
Just go to any worked repository or open source project repo page
Then try to read readme.md it has brief about the project
And it has different folder base approach same.as in vscode or any other sub folders and folders you will open it and see what is there in it . It has everything that has taken that project or repo to reach at that stage of development
Repo --> project folder with readme.md as it's documentation summary to make it understandable by any reader or contributor
@orchid yacht have you got the idea what it offers and you have to find yours
??
lament cairn
gone
robust zephyr
Guess they figured out how to make JARVIS
next vector
strange blade
do you think i know how to read analog clocks
8:10
plush prism
do you think i know how to read analog clocks
Good moment to learn
soft violet
I don't imagine this would be an especially difficult solve for a computer.
thick ore
i assume any recent vision model could solve these
narrow coral
jesus christ
20:10
thick ore
who the heck reads clocks in military time
thick ore
true that
actually now that i think about it
military time makes sense
just drop the am/pm
narrow coral
It makes the math easier
small coral
There is no am pm mentioned
i'm pretty sure you'd just read the clock as-is without the am/pm
am/pm with analog clocks is determined with context but this one doesn't have or need it i think
uneven pine
I switched to using 24hr time when I started working overnight
strange blade
There is no am pm mentioned
so it's still 08:10?
small coral
8 to 12 (4) + 11, makes 15
uneven pine
so it's still 08:10?
Yes
narrow coral
so it's still 08:10?
or 20:10 ;)
small coral
the 12-hour clock is a halfless form of timekeeping, so there can only be hours 1 to 12
so 8:10
narrow coral
the 12-hour clock is a halfless form of timekeeping, so there can only be hours ...
0 to 11:59
We sound like nerds talking about clock xD
small coral
12:00 to 11:59
strange blade
I use / to seperate the date
narrow coral
what if we just used hyphens to separate them like 2025-3-8-13-39
The US will be a dick and say it should be yyyy-dd-mm-mm-hh
strange blade
so 8/3/2025/21/40
thick ore
US says mm-dd-yyyy
narrow coral
The worst format
small coral
i'm literally the only person in my class using d/m/yyyy
everyone else uses m/d/yyyy
narrow coral
Fking weirdos they r
thick ore
long term effects of the american colonial rule
small coral
not that the teachers care what date i put in but they're probably confused sometimes
narrow coral
Btw saw in yt today that trump called and wrote letters to countries asking them to do certain things or else military will be used lol
thick ore
i wanna like military time but i'm too used to am/pm
glossy niche
would u buy one
round pendant
would u buy one
nah i want an infinite state machine
rough sapphire
lament cairn
this is like the 3rd or 4th time ive seen this image in the last few days
wtf happened?
thick ore
Bruh
well yeah technically you're correct
bool is a subclass of int
ok pyright you're a smartass
that's why they call you pyright
acoustic moss
you can just move the isinstance(bool) check above the int one
thick ore
you can just move the isinstance(bool) check above the int one
which is what i did
thick ore
idfk
ask whoever made this protocol
* spin
a spin wheel that can be an integer in a certain range
"spin wheel" 😭
red patrol
I use arch btw
timid latch
Me too btw
red patrol
sigma
uneven pine
Arch is a virus
torn pier
i can say it about my phone (#channel_topic)
bronze igloo
it's Linux ubuntu system topic of server?
fringe rain
Me too btw
what DE though
i mean arch really just gives you the benefit of the AUR, but are you maintaining your sanity by avoiding something like hyprland?
narrow coral
i mean arch really just gives you the benefit of the AUR, but are you maintainin...
Hyprland is cool wdym?
Not as good as i3 but yk
Still pretty cool
soft violet
it's Linux ubuntu system topic of server?
It's tech. We're tech people. This channel is offtopic/general. It's fine.
turbid heron
window manager?
yes
btw if anyone here use arch can they share their X11/xorg.conf.d ?
raw zephyr
It's both a compositor and a window manager
scarlet peak
oh hey furti
turbid heron
It's both a compositor and a window manager
not what i was trying to ask lol
btw hi fruti
raw zephyr
not what i was trying to ask lol
what were you asking then?
turbid heron
what were you asking then?
display server
raw zephyr
Wayland window managers are commonly also compositors
scarlet peak
i added basic arithmetic, assignments and ternary statements to my mini programming language. what's the next step?
- conditionals
- loops
- functions
- arrays (indexing and literals)
raw zephyr
i added basic arithmetic, assignments and ternary statements to my mini programm...
control flow for sure
loops and conditionals
raw zephyr
anyway are you using Lark? @scarlet peak
scarlet peak
anyway are you using Lark? <@566653183774949395>
check the name
turbid heron
Wayland window managers are commonly also compositors
do u also change you resolution in hyprland conf?
scarlet peak
it doesn't really say much
oh my bad. yes i'm using lark
raw zephyr
do u also change you resolution in hyprland conf?
no, it detected it automatically
turbid heron
damn
scarlet peak
BNF is not a tool
it's the "stroking my shit" meme but with parsing buzzwords
turbid heron
it didnt for me..
raw zephyr
oh my bad. yes i'm using lark
gave up on handwritten parser 😔
truly a sight to witness
scarlet peak
gave up on handwritten parser 😔
pratt was only gonna work for single statements
it was cool when it lasted
raw zephyr
You can combine pratt with generic recursive descent to parse basically ANYTHING :(((
I'll go through Writing an [Interpreter | Compiler] in Go again and figure this shit out once and for all
plush prism
I use windows btw
-# 🤡
scarlet peak
gave up on handwritten parser 😔
honestly i'm finding BNF a lot more fun
except for shit like: ```yml
Expected one of:
* EQUAL
* IDENTIFIER
Previous tokens: [Token('IDENTIFIER', 'if')]
where you regret ever starting...
IDENTIFIER: /[a-zA-Z_]\w*/
datatype: /[a-zA-Z_]\w*/
?start: stmt+
IF: "if"
ELSE: "else"
?conditional: IF "(" comparison ")" "{" stmt+ "}" (ELSE "{" stmt+ "}")?
?stmt: assignment | declaration
?declaration: datatype IDENTIFIER ("=" expr)? ";"
?assignment: IDENTIFIER "=" expr ";"
...
nevermind
raw zephyr
simpler than writing it yourself
i wanna do BNF but I wanna try making a parser myself first
scarlet peak
lmao
start
declaration int x = -11;
assignment x = 2;
declaration int y = 17;
declaration int z = 19;
declaration int other = z;
declaration bool is_bigger = False;
conditional
if
False
assignment is_bigger = True;
the assignment went through
raw zephyr
what is this weird language
scarlet peak
even though the condition is false
raw zephyr
is the start inspired by assembly or something
scarlet peak
is the `start` inspired by assembly or something
no it's just an entry point
and it's a pretty-printed AST
round pendant
even though the condition is false
well, yes, parsing is not evaluating
scarlet peak
well, yes, parsing is not evaluating
i guess i should stop evaluating during parsing then 
start
declaration int x = -11;
assignment x = 2;
declaration int y = 17;
declaration int z = 19;
declaration int other = z;
declaration bool is_bigger = False;
conditional
if
False
assignment is_bigger = True;
{
x: <Variable name='x' type='int' value=2>,
y: <Variable name='y' type='int' value=17>,
z: <Variable name='z' type='int' value=19>,
other: <Variable name='other' type='int' value=Token('IDENTIFIER', 'z')>,
is_bigger: <Variable name='is_bigger' type='bool' value=True>
}
bro........
programming language warcrime
scarlet peak
programming language warcrime
in my defence, i thought the transformer came AFTER fully parsing the output
graceful basin
It's how things like shell work
it also means you can prepend your language to a zip file and just evaluate it to unzip itself
raw zephyr
in my defence, i thought the transformer came AFTER fully parsing the output
transformer?
graceful basin
That's how lark does semantic actions.
scarlet peak
transformer?
yes. lark has those
you redefine rules as methods in the transformer that take in a list of tokens and then spit out a reformed output
you can use this for constant folding
graceful basin
A lower level parser generator would have you use this for building the AST
raw zephyr
so... compile time expression eval?
internet friends be like: "so an X is a Y with a Z"
but what's Y and what's Z
what's the point of building an AST if a transformer rebuilds one from scratch anyway, or was that your confusion?
scarlet peak
so... compile time expression eval?
yes
scarlet peak
but what's Y and what's Z
variables
scarlet peak
what's the point of building an AST if a transformer rebuilds one from scratch a...
no you build one raw AST and then optimise parts of it before evaluation
raw zephyr
how can you optimize such things without some evaluation?
scarlet peak
how can you optimize such things without some evaluation?
constant folding
3 + (5 - 2) * 9 can be folded into 30
and it will always be 30
raw zephyr
That requires evaluation
scarlet peak
oh wait yeah
scarlet peak
how can you optimize such things without some evaluation?
you cant im guessing
raw zephyr
apparently it's called partial evaluation
timid latch
help needed! what wm use tho
I use hyprland
scarlet peak
apparently it's called partial evaluation
wait furti, are you meant to interpret declarations / assignments at compile time or runtime?
int x = 2;
int y = 17;
int z = x + y;
bool is_bigger = false;
if (y > z) {
is_bigger = true;
}
because when trying to fold this, is_bigger is True, regardless of the fact that it's not a surface level assignment
so clearly i dont think i should be doing this
round pendant
wait furti, are you meant to interpret declarations / assignments at compile tim...
declarations: at compile time you'd add the name & type to the scope, at runtime you'd do the assignment
assignments: only runtime
optimizations are a separate question
graceful basin
Constant folding demands you track whether something is constant or not
scarlet peak
optimizations are a separate question
ok so i think i'm gonna take the route of scrapping premature optimisations
scarlet peak
Constant folding demands you track whether something is constant or not
alright i'll just make it bare bones and worry about optimisations later
timid latch
(haven't read the convo, but if this is for a compiler llvm will do constant folding in a lot of cases for you)
scarlet peak
(haven't read the convo, but if this is for a compiler llvm will do constant fol...
interpreter ideally
timid latch
interpreter ideally
In that case yhe you would need to do a lot of optimizations yourself, assuming you want them
Depending on how dynamic your lang is you might not want constant folding at all
Like for example in python you can overwrite the int addition method using some ctypes magic, but that won't affect constant folded integers
!e ```py
import fishhook
@fishhook.hook(int)
def add(self, other): return 10
x,y = 2, 5
print(2 + 5, x + y)
royal lakeBOT
!e ```py
import fishhook
@fishhook.hook(int)
def __add__(self, other): return 1...
:white_check_mark: Your 3.12 eval job has completed with return code 0.
7 10
The first argument gets constant folded, the second is calculated at runtime
So this is a case where constant folding technically produces a wrong result
(tho tbf it's a very nonsensical edge case, you should never really do this)
timid latch
Depending on how dynamic your lang is you might not want constant folding at all
Hence 
Was just using python as a example of where constant folding "goes wrong"
scarlet peak
Hence <:this:470903994118832130>
hm alright, makes sense.
also, as a side question, in my bnf, i have this: ```
...
?add_sub: mul_div (ADD_SUB_OP mul_div)*
?mul_div: simple (MUL_DIV_OP simple)*
...
this means that i get `5 + 2 + 3` all on one line instead of `(5 + 2) + 3` (in terms of AST nesting). what's the best way to change this?do you need them nested?
glossy niche
🍞
scarlet peak
do you need them nested?
yeah i'd prefer them nested. makes processing them a lot easier
hybrid root
scarlet peak
https://tenor.com/view/cat-cats-cat-eating-cat-eating-food-gif-24575246
new gif
uneven pine
That's old as hell
bronze igloo
hellooo
grave cove
weak peak
darabyte reference?
glossy niche
LET GO OF HIM
frozen crane
It's so lame that America doesn't have high-speed rail.
The only way to quickly get from Washington, DC to Pittsburgh for PyCon is to fly. But they're not even that far apart. And it's hard to even find flights that don't have a layover in Atlanta or NYC.
thick osprey
It's so lame that America doesn't have high-speed rail.
The only way to quickly ...
Just two more lanes on the expressways should fix it. Just two more.
frozen crane
My company is paying for the flights, so I only feel kind of guilty.
If I were going to PyCon on my own time and dime, I could take buses, which are 7 hours each way.
Except I wouldn't do that, because then I'd be wasting my time off sitting in a bus.
low chasm
It's so lame that America doesn't have high-speed rail.
The only way to quickly ...
you could suffer through the four hour drive 🥴
grave cove
Just two more lanes on the expressways should fix it. Just two more.
this is what the katy, tx civil engineers were saying
frozen crane
you could suffer through the four hour drive 🥴
I have a decently nice car (an accord but with """luxury features""") that's almost paid off, but I can get almost everywhere I want to go on public transit. So my long term financial plan is to not drive my car very much and for it to last forever.
low chasm
fair enough
although since it's a honda, won't it last like, a long time regardless
I drive a prius that's been pretty faithful for the last 200k miles, doesn't seem like it's dying anytime soon
frozen crane
although since it's a honda, won't it last like, a long time regardless
Let's assume it lasts for 300k miles. If I don't drive it to Pittsburgh and back, I save 500 miles, which isn't nothing.
low chasm
yeah fair
frozen crane
Also driving a Prius
Kinda sus 
You should confuse people even more by driving a Subaru
young shoal
Let's assume it lasts for 300k miles. If I don't drive it to Pittsburgh and back...
you could make the drive every day for almost 2 years straight. it is kind of nothing
robust zephyr
Sounds terrible
Mass transit is the way
Then you can read books or listen to them and get all kinds of stuff done while getting to where you need to be
timid latch
Like sleep
digital oracle
<@544825455509897227>
👀
glossy niche
It's so lame that America doesn't have high-speed rail.
The only way to quickly ...
real, I am eager to see caliofornia hsr even though I haven't ever stepped foot in that whole continent, trains r just cool
cloud oxide
Why do so many americans have car loans?
graceful basin
Why do so many americans have car loans?
Cars are mandatory if you want to have access to society, and thus people need cars very early on in their lives. Thus, loans
uneven pine
Mine is almost paid off 🙏
cloud oxide
Cars are mandatory if you want to have access to society, and thus people need c...
Just buy a 2k car?
uneven pine
sometimes that is viable, other times it is not
I worked as a delivery driver for most of my life, a cheap car ends up costing way more in the long run because of maintenance and repairs
I was spending hundreds a month on keeping my older car on the road vs spending about the same just paying for a new car that didn't constantly require repairs, and then cost me days of work because I didn't have a car
carmine apex
cars under $2000 are also going to be quite old (> 20 years), and there have been significant upgrades over the years
solemn tulip
I have a decently nice car (an accord but with """luxury features""") that's alm...
honestly that seems like a perfect situation for some rental/car sharing thing
low chasm
cars under $2000 are also going to be quite old (> 20 years), and there have bee...
my Prius doesn't even have aux 😭
it's a bit shy of 20 years old at this point
I've been considering just getting a cheap Bluetooth speaker and permanently putting that in the car. I could get one of the Bluetooth adapter things but the front speakers for the car are busted anyways
low chasm
Then you can read books or listen to them and get all kinds of stuff done while ...
yeah but our mass transit is also pretty mid
stark prawn
the big jbl pill like things that the cool kids in the park have
thick ore
fetty wap on the jbl speaker 💔🥀
cloud oxide
I was spending hundreds a month on keeping my older car on the road vs spending ...
Bruh Just buy toyota or honda don t have that problem at all
cloud oxide
cars under $2000 are also going to be quite old (> 20 years), and there have bee...
Mostly bad ones
graceful basin
modern cars are strictly safer than older cars.
uneven pine
Bruh Just buy toyota or honda don t have that problem at all
my car that needed constant maintenance was a toyota.
old jap cars are reliable yes
but they're not exempt from being old.
cloud oxide
my car that needed constant maintenance _was_ a toyota.
Never had that 300k+ on my car
cloud oxide
modern cars are strictly safer than older cars.
Yeah but also track you no Manuel and overpriced
low chasm
Yeah but also track you no Manuel and overpriced
yeah you can still get manuals today, but even so, most people just don't want them
cloud oxide
yeah you can still get manuals today, but even so, most people just don't want t...
I do unless they are overpriced
low chasm
I do unless they are overpriced
sure, but most people don't.
cloud oxide
Only americans in the rest of the world it isn t a problem?
low chasm
Only americans in the rest of the world it isn t a problem?
aren't we talking about America here?
cloud oxide
I don t live in europe 🗣️
low chasm
I don t live in europe 🗣️
well, sure?
stark prawn
manuals have become less popular in europe now that electrical vehicles are on the rise
cloud oxide
manuals have become less popular in europe now that electrical vehicles are on t...
Wouldn t drive one for free lol
stark prawn
Really? Free is very cheap.
cloud oxide
The electrics?
Yep
tardy rain
Why
cloud oxide
Cuz i do like the control of my vehicld and want a real engine and no stupid software when it is not needed
tardy rain
Thats silly
Youre not better at handling an engine than a computer is
Thats like saying you prefer abacuses to calculators
graceful basin
I do get wanting a simple car that works in an understandable way
cloud oxide
Youre not better at handling an engine than a computer is
I mean i got full control can t get stopped can t get speedlimited or does things i don t want
tardy rain
Your "full" control doesnt mean youre better at handling a car than a computer is
The software/simplicity argument is fine, this one isnt
cloud oxide
Your "full" control doesnt mean youre better at handling a car than a computer i...
I mean i wouldn t trust software when im driving fast always change for problems in the sofware itself
small coral
Your "full" control doesnt mean youre better at handling a car than a computer i...
a false sense of security might be better for some people
tardy rain
Better for some people is just worse for everyone else
small coral
although i don't really see how electric (are we really talking electric vs manual here?) vehicles would overspeed anyway
tardy rain
The manual vs auto argument is usually made on fuel efficiency
But what makes you think the average driver is more efficient
cloud oxide
The manual vs auto argument is usually made on fuel efficiency
Nah you can have an Electric cars that burns benzind
cloud oxide
What does it matter to you what fuel the car burns
Talking about the range of Electric cars
tardy rain
What about it
cloud oxide
You said you wanted control
Yeah and not be a data npc