ot1-perplexing-regexing

[shrewd thunder]

Tis the season

[prime lagoon]

I personally do not understand C entirely, but yes, I can read it.

[grave cove]

Is this Texas

[vale raven]

ah yes

Baton Rouge and New Orleans, Texas

[jaunty wraith]

#ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare message

robin moment

[vale raven]

It's got pieces of a few states
Texas is on the left
But the bulk is Louisiana

[vale raven]

<@&267629731250176001> bullying

[grave cove]

i mean texas has a lot of weird city and town names

there's literally a town called ferris by dallas

[vale raven]

Yes

There’s also the very clear border line

Up to Texarkana at the tip of the panhandle

[grave cove]

yeah im not seeing it

[grave cove]

maybe i see it a bit

[spare oriole]

hi

[vale raven]

Ping

ghost ping

[grave cove]

banan

[shrewd thunder]

here this should make it easier

either way, time to see if there are any webcams near there since the eye wall is just about to hit

[glossy niche]

I am still seeing people not knowing that the Facebook company is called meta now, despite the fact that the rename happened 3 years ago and only affected the owning company

shits going great for Twitter probably lol

[cloud oxide]

No one cares enough

[spare oriole]

Most people don’t know alphabet owns google and no one cares

Like, most people don’t know it has a parent company

[glossy niche]

indeed

OK maybe it is falicoius to compare an owning company to a product rename, I do still hate that I have to explain to boomers that the tweeter is called eks now

[glossy niche]

anyone have experience with duck dB? I'm not asking for help I just think it's cool and want to hear people's thoughts on it

[young shoal]

@granite tree

[graceful basin]

everytime I've used duckdb it just worked at adequate performance with no fuss.

and everyone I've recommended it has shared that experience

[glossy niche]

neat

i havent worked a serious data science project in a year so ig ill just wait to find a use case for it

[solemn tulip]

duck dB
very loud quack

[glossy niche]

wait till you hear ~~ about~~ duck B

[granite tree]

I'm a total duckdb nerd, what do you want to know?

[glossy niche]

just your opinion is enough

[granite tree]

I love it. Using it professionally. It's crazy ergonomic.

[spare oriole]

billy is our resident duckdb shill

will even parse json with just duckdb

[sharp jasper]

I've not heard of it before but I am intrigued. What would you compare it to?
Context: I'm considering alternatives to MongoDb for my lab software stack. We do a lot of data analysis and visualization in Python and the current solution... is a bit rough. I could have the opportunity to switch things up. (MongoDB was originally chosen for political reasons.)

[spare oriole]

political?

[sharp jasper]

On the small scale, yes

It's worked out so far and the cloud services are pretty good, so I'm not really complaining, but always interested in improvements

[granite tree]

It's like SQLite in terms of ease of use, like clickhouse or a mini snowflake in terms of analytics, like polars in terms of performance and data ergonomics. You can work with csvs, parquet, external dbs (ie: data that lives in PostGres), etc all equally easily.

I do nearly everything in sql, with dbt to keep my code from spaghetti

[spare oriole]

yeah i like mongodb, i dont get all the hate

the few real concerns i've had with it were improved by learning more about how mongodb worked under the hood and optimizing that way

[young shoal]

it's the wrong choice most of the time

"schemaless" is a lie

[spare oriole]

do you dream in sql?

[granite tree]

That's not even scratching the surface of its awesomeness... geospatial extensions, partial parquet reads from s3, seamlessly reading parquet and polars tables, etc

[sharp jasper]

Heck. OK, that is quite an endorsement. I'll add it to the list of things to consider.

I am really not a database guy but the more I learn the more I realize things could be better if we had known to do them differently 2-3 years ago

Late is better than never I suppose

[young shoal]

you should hire me 👍 i know database stuff

😌

(/j not actually)

(unless?)

[granite tree]

If it's a work thing, def hire a db consultant... especially someone who knows dbt, to help you get started. If you start with good practices, it'll save you a lot of aggravation

A lot of my work ends up being rewriting pandas code into a clean pipeline

[sharp jasper]

I'll see if I can push on that angle. It would be great to have someone smarter than me handling this stuff

[granite tree]

Altho, tbh, getting good at sql is attainable. There's some good practice sites

Sqlbolt, for instance

[sharp jasper]

Thanks. I've been learning a bit more SQL lately. (Used it some in college, barely since) I'll check that out

[robust zephyr]

I saw a job application a while ago that asked you to write a query and use the derived result to answer a question in the form. I thought that was cool

[naive igloo]

but what about duck daB

[glossy niche]

neat, ty

rn im using opensearch for analytics at work but I'm considering duckdb cuz sql is easy for most people

not as a replacement but for newer projects where OS would be overkill

[thick ore]

i just learned how to put in my earphones the correct way

and the sound quality is

amazing

[naive igloo]

why is python -m venv venv so slow

what is it even doing to be so slow

[fringe rain]

its pretty fast for me

[naive igloo]

6s for me

[fringe rain]

that sounds odd

can you share your specs and python version

[naive igloo]

which seems redicilous to create a predefined set of 1032 files

[fringe rain]

and operating system

[junior hearth]

ya it's slow

by slow its not instant, takes few seconds

[naive igloo]

amd fx6100 16gb ram on cpython 3.12.4

[naive igloo]

linux

[naive igloo]

yeah

which seems a bit odd

like it just does cp

[naive igloo]

by looking at its folder structure

it seems it also precompiles all of the .py files..?

hm

what if i

profile venv

what

[jaunty wraith]

exec

[brittle void]

guys, how do i have 3 states in a checkbox?

like yes, no, empty

[junior hearth]

i wanted same venv for a similar project, copy pasting it was way faster than creating a new one

[jaunty wraith]

⬜

[junior hearth]

dunno but array or object wouldnt work?

[brittle void]

in react ts

[junior hearth]

yeah array or object sounds good

[naive igloo]

no i realised that

but i meant

what is it even doing there

[junior hearth]

object cuz you can map with a human readable key

[naive igloo]

wont it be broken tho?

because of hardcoded paths

it makes

[solemn tulip]

@young shoal
for fun I started listing languages that could go into a second roulette round 🥴

Totally feasible

Array languages

• APL
• Uiua
• J
  Old school
• Awk
• B
• Ada
• Cobol
• Pascal
• Smalltalk
  Modern
• Roc
• D
• Odin
• Zig
• Nim
• Gleam
• V
• Pony
  Misc
• Erlang
• R
• Octave
• Swift
• Forth
• Tcl
• Haxe
  Obscure
• Futhark (or other ML)

Maybe?

• Maxima (this probably won't work)
• Postscript (can ps even read input?)
• SQL (because pain)
• TeX (oh god)
• VimScript (would be hilarious)

Unlikely

• Jai (if it's out, it probably won't be)
• Scratch (probably not feasible)
• Carbon (probably not feasible, an interpreter exists, but no compiler afaik)
• (mojo, is this even available?)

[young shoal]

bruh

i think we can do mojo on their online demo thing

[brittle void]

mojo is available in linux

iirc

[solemn tulip]

that would be terrible though

[young shoal]

missing pony 😦

idk how you say that but want us to do APL

[junior hearth]

didn't seem so, I thought that at first and tried, no problems

[brittle void]

vimscript is brutal

[young shoal]

at least uiua is typeable

[jaunty wraith]

.uwu

[median dome]

at weast u-uiua i-is typeabwe

[brittle void]

better use vimscript to lua cross compiler

[brittle void]

.uwu

[median dome]

missing p-pony 😦

[solemn tulip]

I'm just dumping languages, more ones are welcomed

added pony

[brittle void]

how about z#?

[junior hearth]

.uwu

[median dome]

@young shoal
fow fun i s-stawted wisting w-wanguages that couwd go i-into a second wouwette wound 🥴

totawwy feasibwe

awway w-wanguages

• apw
• uiua
• j ^^ owd schoow
• awk
• b
• ada
• cobow
• pascaw
• smowtawk
  modewn
• woc
• d
• odin
• zig
• n-nim
• gweam ʘwʘ * v
• pony rawr x3 misc
• ewwang
• w
• octave
• swift
• fowth
• tcw
• haxe
  obscuwe uwu * futhawk (ow o-othew mw)

maybe?

• m-maxima (this pwobabwy won't wowk)
• postscwipt (can ps e-even wead input?)
• sqw (because p-pain)
• tex (oh god)
• v-vimscwipt (wouwd be hiwawious)

u-unwikewy ^^;; * jai (if it's out, it pwobabwy won't be) OwO * s-scwatch (pwobabwy nyot feasibwe) ^^ * cawbon (pwobabwy nyot feasibwe, an intewpwetew exists, but nyo compiwew afaik)

• (mojo, i-is this even avaiwabwe?)

[young shoal]

bro

why did that ping me

[solemn tulip]

because it's important to you

[patent girder]

Important information

[jaunty wraith]

Q#

[brittle void]

.uwu

[median dome]

@young shoal
fow fun i s-stawted w-wisting w-wanguages that couwd g-go i-into a second wouwette wound 🥴 -.-

totawwy feasibwe

XD awway w-wanguages

• apw
• uiua rawr * j-j ^^ owd schoow
• awk
• b-b
• ada
• c-cobow
• pascaw
• smowtawk
  modewn
• woc
• d ^^ * odin
• z-zig
• n-nim
• gweam ʘwʘ * v
• p-pony wawr x3 misc
• ewwang
• w
• octave
• swift
• fowth
• tcw
• haxe òωó obscuwe uwu * futhawk (ow o-o-othew mw)

maybe?

• m-m-maxima (this pwobabwy won't wowk)
• p-postscwipt (can ps e-even wead i-input?)
• sqw (because p-pain)
• tex (oh g-god)
• v-vimscwipt (wouwd b-be hiwawious)

u-unwikewy ^^;; * jai (if it's out, i-it pwobabwy won't be) owo * s-scwatch (pwobabwy nyot feasibwe) ^^ * cawbon (pwobabwy nyot feasibwe, an intewpwetew exists, but nyo compiwew afaik)

• (mojo, i-i-is this even avaiwabwe?)

[solemn tulip]

@young shoal test with silent

[solemn tulip]

.uwu

[median dome]

@young shoal test with siwent

[solemn tulip]

I'm guessing that pings

[brittle void]

that'd ping him for sure

[jaunty wraith]

wack

[solemn tulip]

now, someone try @silent @everyone

and uwu that

[junior hearth]

aha i wanna do it

[solemn tulip]

I wonder if the silent everyone mention would be filtered immediately by some filter in the bot

[young shoal]

cringe

[junior hearth]

can python bot ping

like i break its code block

and ping

[median dome]

@evewyone

[brittle void]

fuck

[junior hearth]

ha

[jaunty wraith]

[brittle void]

thats not even a mention

@jaunty wraith

[solemn tulip]

aww, @everyone gets immediately filtered 😔

even with silent

[median dome]

@evewyone

[jaunty wraith]

get filtered

[fringe rain]

its almost instant for me

i dont know what the problem could be

[solemn tulip]

.uwu

[median dome]

do you have @evewyonye pings t-tuwnyed off?

[solemn tulip]

aww

[undone granite]

i'm gonna clone sir lancebot and find a way

[steady coral]

it's not sir lancebot that does it

[jaunty wraith]

giving away secrets smh

[solemn tulip]

did my dumb ideas summon a bunch of mods and devs? 😛

I'm guessing that everyone and here mentions are special

[junior hearth]

i am special

[steady coral]

they are

they ping a lot of people

[solemn tulip]

I know that

[steady coral]

i know

[young shoal]

source?

[solemn tulip]

but special in how they are handled

[steady coral]

roh, you didn't get the joke

[solemn tulip]

😔

.uwu

[median dome]

@hewe

[solemn tulip]

dammit

[junior hearth]

i will now hack joe

and ping everyone

[solemn tulip]

uwu makes them safe

[junior hearth]

break it

[solemn tulip]

granted idk if making the bot write @everyone would even do anything

[junior hearth]

try with python bot

come on someone do it

[solemn tulip]

I can maybe get around the initial filter by doing the edit stuff again, but even they things would be uwuified

[junior hearth]

i can't I'm on dinner having phone

[undone granite]

i'm reading discord.py clean_content rn

[solemn tulip]

oh nvm, this filter catches edits

good

[junior hearth]

why

[patent girder]

fancy

[solemn tulip]

I'm going to end up on some lists

sorry 🥴

[jaunty wraith]

bold of you to assume you aren't already

[solemn tulip]

fair enough

[honest star]

(it wouldn't, discordpy and discord has a default not-ping-everyone flag unless you explicitly override)

[junior hearth]

too many staff typing

[brittle void]

!e print(f"{'@'}everyone")

[royal lake]

:white_check_mark: Your 3.12 eval job has completed with return code 0.

@everyone

[undone granite]

its how the ping gets filtered

[brittle void]

oh wait

[junior hearth]

bruh break code block

[brittle void]

i cant

idk how

[solemn tulip]

at least I found the fun bypass of emoji and newline limits

[junior hearth]

print "`"*3

[solemn tulip]

though I guess that'll be fixed soon enough

[junior hearth]

at start and end

[brittle void]

!e print(f"{'`'*3}{'@'}everyone")

[royal lake]

:white_check_mark: Your 3.12 eval job has completed with return code 0.

Code block escape attempt detected; will not output result

Full output: https://paste.pythondiscord.com/DRKTIQ6Y3DEXY2SJLE6SMOWXAA

[undone granite]

haha

[junior hearth]

damn

[honest star]

lmfao I was waiting for that

[brittle void]

brooooooo

[patent girder]

lol

[solemn tulip]

I tried that a long time ago, it's decently locked down

[junior hearth]

i will break it

after my dinner

[brittle void]

this shit is harder than the rsa

[honest star]

if you try hard enough you can escape, but even if you escape it won't ping

[undone granite]

i will clone the python bot then

[solemn tulip]

but at least I can have an army of crabs
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀

[brittle void]

cuz of member privileges in discord huh?

[jaunty wraith]

there is no ping in ba sing se

[brittle void]

ba sing se?

bazinga?

[jaunty wraith]

https://tenor.com/view/nowarinbasingse-atla-avatar-the-last-gif-18401680

[honest star]

we have to override the specific messages to get it to ping and we default it to off for all of our bots. I think the only bot that we do override for any messages at all is Sir Robin, maybe.

[solemn tulip]

(granted, the newline bypass is far more disruptive, let me not try that again)

[solemn tulip]

.uwu

[median dome]

but at weast i can have an a-awmy of cwabs
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀 >w< 🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀

[solemn tulip]

aww, is the bot not eligible to be silenced for emoji spam?

[young shoal]

bro

[wide verge]

The moderators cannot control us.

[honest star]

lol we don't scan for messages against bots

[solemn tulip]

it would have been very funny if I managed to ban lancebot

[honest star]

eeey my super giant CAD model managed to load in overnight! I can do work today!

[patent girder]

Nice, what is it a model of?

[junior hearth]

i will now do it

[honest star]

A rocket booster, full size, with every. single. part.
Like every single fucking bolt.

[young shoal]

can i see 👀

[honest star]

No 😔 is proprietary data

[jaunty wraith]

the end is near

[junior hearth]

are u a robot

[patent girder]

Wow, cool

[honest star]

It's not specifically this, but it's in the same realm as this: https://www.northropgrumman.com/space/gem-63-updates

[jaunty wraith]

katj1 through 8 were bots
katj9 is not

[solemn tulip]

allegedly

[young shoal]

allegedly

[junior hearth]

i suspect

[wide verge]

Can confirm

[junior hearth]

knew it

[honest star]

god the robot pfp for this server specifically was the best decision I've made

[junior hearth]

says a robot trying to sound human

[solemn tulip]

I liked the old one

[young shoal]

did the other one encourage dms

[honest star]

it's still my discord-wide pfp

[junior hearth]

what was it

[jaunty wraith]

the brain damage pfp attracts DMs?

[honest star]

yeah and blatant misogyny. Now I just get uncertain misogyny

[young shoal]

😔

[honest star]

lmfao yeah, it was weird

[junior hearth]

ah now i will be a misogynist

from today

[jaunty wraith]

[young shoal]

based

[junior hearth]

[honest star]

[jaunty wraith]

no, yes

[young shoal]

on my way to dm this instant

[junior hearth]

lmao

what kind of stuff misogynist say?

I'm new here

i need tis

tips

wait haven't i seen this duck somewhere

few moments ago

[junior hearth]

IT WAS YOU

[jaunty wraith]

no

dave has glasses

[junior hearth]

they fell in the pool

[fringe rain]

dave mentioned

[solemn tulip]

my message requests are mostly boring

mostly random help requests

one "fuck you"

no birds

[junior hearth]

!e print('`'*3)

[royal lake]

:white_check_mark: Your 3.12 eval job has completed with return code 0.

Code block escape attempt detected; will not output result

Full output: https://paste.pythondiscord.com/2IE2DKJCICLY4SIQDU3OBW4A24

[jaunty wraith]

what the dave doing

[junior hearth]

!source e

[royal lake]

Command: eval

Run Python code and get the results.

Source Code

Go to GitHub

bot/exts/utils/snekbox/_cog.py:573

[junior hearth]

i will search how to break it

[fringe rain]

delivering a ring to his wife for their anniversary

[junior hearth]

well I'm on phone i can't damn code

[solemn tulip]

now I want to try triggering this
https://github.com/python-discord/bot/blob/main/bot/exts/utils/snekbox/_cog.py#L429

[royal lake]

bot/exts/utils/snekbox/_cog.py line 429

return await ctx.send("Attempt to circumvent filter detected. Moderator team has been alerted.")```

[jaunty wraith]

hello

[undone granite]

they have been alerted 😨

[junior hearth]

wow what did you do

[undone granite]

why doesn't sir lance have .env.example

should i search for the variables or is there documentation

[junior hearth]

@viral parrot remembered our argument on AI when I came across this, wanted to share with you
https://youtu.be/7GaKl6HwZ50?si=3HVoESiSz6_rgvmT

[royal lake]

Contribute to Python Discord's open source projects

Looking to contribute to Open Source Projects for the first time? Want to add a feature or fix a bug on the bots on this server? We have on-going projects that people can contribute to, even if you've never contributed to open source before!

Projects to Contribute to

• Sir Lancebot - our fun, beginner-friendly bot
• Python - our utility & moderation bot
• Site - resources, guides, and more

Where to start

1. Read our contribution guide
2. Chat with us in #dev-contrib if you're ready to jump in or have any questions
3. Open an issue or ask to be assigned to an issue to work on

[jaunty wraith]

@undone granite

[solemn tulip]

https://github.com/python-discord/bot/blob/13927ec4791a3f87193724ea3d1ac24143a8684c/bot/exts/utils/snekbox/_cog.py#L262-L264

[royal lake]

bot/exts/utils/snekbox/_cog.py lines 262 to 264

if ESCAPE_REGEX.findall(output):
    paste_link = await self.upload_output(original_output)
    return "Code block escape attempt detected; will not output result", paste_link```

[honest star]

we have a pretty good setup guide on our website

[junior hearth]

aha

[solemn tulip]

the regex is [`\u202E\u200B]{3,}

[junior hearth]

now to think of a loophole

[solemn tulip]

what even are these unicode symbols? RTL or something?

202E is RTL indeed

[junior hearth]

i think i should break into bot host server and remove the regex

[solemn tulip]

200B is zero width space

[junior hearth]

[jaunty wraith]

​ ​
​ ​
​ ​

[solemn tulip]

!e

print("\u200B"*3)

[royal lake]

:white_check_mark: Your 3.12 eval job has completed with return code 0.

Code block escape attempt detected; will not output result

Full output: https://paste.pythondiscord.com/TF66WPQDGE2N3GUYQGMZWVMFKI

[solemn tulip]

that's silly

idk why you would want to filter that, unless discord strips it or something

[junior hearth]

I'm sure it was broken once

i ran some type of code

it printed 2 code blocks

[solemn tulip]

!e

print("``\u200D`")

[royal lake]

:white_check_mark: Your 3.12 eval job has completed with return code 0.

``‍`

[solemn tulip]

aww

[brittle void]

!e print(f"`{'@'}everyone")

[solemn tulip]

!e

print("``\f`")

[royal lake]

:white_check_mark: Your 3.12 eval job has completed with return code 0.

001 | ``
002 | `

[brittle void]

!e print(f"\033[1,1H{'@'}everyone")

[solemn tulip]

!e

print("``\a`")

[royal lake]

:white_check_mark: Your 3.12 eval job has completed with return code 0.

```

[solemn tulip]

huh, not the character I expected

[junior hearth]

i found a fun toy https://youtube.com/shorts/mOAv_pVHolU?si=5y8lDEiQjv4uB8cF

[brittle void]

bro get that shit away from here

we're busy, cant u see?

\s

!e print(f"{'@'}everyone")

!e print(f"{'`'*3}{'@'}everyone"*20)

[junior hearth]

!e print('\r')

[royal lake]

:white_check_mark: Your 3.12 eval job has completed with return code 0.

Code block escape attempt detected; will not output result

Full output: https://paste.pythondiscord.com/4RUGDYNVNKF2GIOZAUV37732QU

[junior hearth]

which slash is it I forgot

[royal lake]

:warning: Your 3.12 eval job has completed with return code 0.

[No output]

[jaunty wraith]

or just move to #bot-commands

[solemn tulip]

#bot-escape-room

[severe laurel]

whats the downside? cheaper than in-store irons with more features and higher max temp. is it the quality?

[uneven pine]

Yes

Those things are fire sticks

[severe laurel]

im a beginner and will use it rarely, would you recommend i avoid this one?

[uneven pine]

You really don't want to cheap out on the thing that gets really really hot and needs to work around precise electrical things

[severe laurel]

or should it work for what i need

[uneven pine]

Spend $50 and get a reasonable one that will work well

[minor tundra]

That's *really* cheap.
Like there's protections missing kind of cheap. Maybe it's roughly at cost, but I wouldn't really be super confident that it's set temperature would be accurate over long term use.
That said, my entry soldering iron was 3 dollars and while it was bad, I got into electronics. So if you're unable to afford better, it's a start. But if you're able to afford better, "better" means safer at this level so I'd go for better

[severe laurel]

ill get this one for what i need at the moment and invest in a higher quality one in a couple of days

i only need to solder 3 wires to a cheap pcb rn and dont have the budget for anything greater today. ill be especially careful when i do use it though

thanks for the responses, ill look to replace asap

[minor tundra]

If you're doing that fast of a turn around get something better

[severe laurel]

what better can i get for $10?

[minor tundra]

If you can do the $50 price point I'm seeing recommendations for the Pinecil Pine64, though I've never used it
If you can't, just be super cautious with the device and make sure it doesn't stay plugged in when you're not actively using it

[severe laurel]

if its one without the temp control and lcd i guess i could just use one i got from harbor fright but it takes a long time to heat up + im pretty sure ive ruined the tip somehow

and yeah i absolutely do not leave it while plugged in

[minor tundra]

I read "invest in a higher quality one in a couple of days" as you had the budget to put a good amount into the iron this week, and it doesn't make sense to throw away even $10 at that point

[severe laurel]

couple of days as in if i get a job soon lmao

ive been applying but nothing yet 😦

[minor tundra]

Before you go for this iron, read up on $10 irons on reddit or eevblog just to see if it's worth the quick use for you.
For 3 wires, yeah it might be. Like I said my first one was $3.
But it also made me hate soldering for years until I used a good iron

[severe laurel]

theres also the same day delivery that i have to factor in, id like to get this done today since i wont be free this weekend

ill still search a bit, but that one i already placed the order for since same-day delivery was expiring, might be able to cancel if i find a more preferred one though

[minor tundra]

Yeah, and honestly, if it works it works. There's nothing wrong with that.
Cheap irons just also have a tendency to cause problems in addition to working (I melted a lot of boards while just trying to soldering pins on my old iron, and am too delicate with the new one now because of the bad habits I learned). So the posts might help you avoid 'common issues' of the cheap irons and highlight what isn't your fault

[severe laurel]

ah ok that makes sense

[thick ore]

now that I finally have a good GPU, I can play the horribly optimized "low-poly" unity 3D games

[glossy niche]

unturned

[low chasm]

I have tried cosmic

and I've come to the conclusion that it seems like it's kind of...not the smoothest experience right now

settings app keeps crashing on me, and I can't figure out how to switch workspaces without using the overlay menu thing

[jaunty wraith]

wdym? isn't there a keybinding for that in Gnome?

[brittle void]

cuz its in incomplete pre-alpha stage?

man, people now a days are really re writing everything in rust

they'll really rewrite themselves in rust one day

[low chasm]

not gnome, but the new DE the pop OS guys are making

[low chasm]

yeah that's fair

I have high hopes for it at least

seems like it'll be really nice

[fringe rain]

Does anybody here use mobile data as their source of internet for their laptops/PCs too

Or does everybody here use a router

[brittle void]

whats the matter?

[fringe rain]

I'm just curious

[jaunty wraith]

I see
average alpha software

[fringe rain]

I'm probably going to buy a 50 gig packet and use it

[low chasm]

it's in rust too lol

[jaunty wraith]

average Rust software

[fringe rain]

nah rust software is the best software /hj

[brittle void]

why not unlimited?

[fringe rain]

theres a limitation to how much you can use per day

and how much you can hotspot

[brittle void]

you can use as much data as you want, and pay for how much you've used (postpaid plan)

[fringe rain]

oh right ive heard of that

🤔

that actually sounds good

why dont i just do that, is that more expensive or something

shouldnt that be perfect for everybody

[brittle void]

are you looking for broadband connection?

imo, i wont opt for post paid plan

[fringe rain]

hm?

[grave cove]

bro should just use windows fr

[fringe rain]

or like

any other DE

[grave cove]

linux desktop 👎

[fair summit]

How tf they detect and calculate collisions of polygons or smth, there is no like point?

[brittle void]

cuz the bills will just escalate very quickly

[grave cove]

polygons are composed of points

[fair summit]

Yes but on line between points, or on plane between lines no points

What collides

[fringe rain]

why

[fair summit]

How to collide a cube

[fringe rain]

like, wouldnt it charge how much i use

[brittle void]

as a heavy internet user, the bill will pierce the roofs for me

[grave cove]

https://www.euclideanspace.com/threed/animation/collisiondetect/index.htm

there's a lot of algorithm/math behind it

[brittle void]

and i dont wanna see how much i've used
i'd just pay the unlimited plan in prior to just enjoy with the internet

[fringe rain]

but if you wanted to use so much internet, doesnt having a max of like 2 gigs a day make it inconvenient for you?

[brittle void]

no

but its upto u i'd say

buy the plan based on ur usage

[unkempt python]

damn bro

[low chasm]

hyprland 🥺

[fringe rain]

hyprland on top

arch btw

[undone granite]

Hyprland just crashed

Fan speed went to 100%

Stoped responding

And its just the third day using it

[young shoal]

use windows

[brazen ingot]

rejected

[spare oriole]

pop os is based

[glossy niche]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPb3x9pXD3k

my boy still uploading

🔥🔥🔥

friendship ended with fireshp

[naive igloo]

honestly even tho it does make sense chemically to sell gas per kg

it just intuitively doesnt

[glossy niche]

uh, yes?

mass is a measure of mass

it tells you how much of something you got

are you confusing it for weight? or whatever ?

[naive igloo]

no i meant intuitively (at least to me) it makes more sense to sell by volume

but then ofc pressure and stuff like that comes in

while mass is the literal count of something you got

cuz like avogardos number and stuff

[glossy niche]

have you ever carried a gas tank?

like cooking gas?

[naive igloo]

no..?

i am living in like

[glossy niche]

i carry those all he time

[naive igloo]

uhm

i forgot how they are called

[glossy niche]

the weight diff between a full and empty one is VERY obv

[naive igloo]

but basically multi-store living buildings

[glossy niche]

canisters?

oh

apartment complex

[naive igloo]

where we have got gas pipes

yeah

[glossy niche]

(actualyl very simple)

[naive igloo]

so we dont have to deal with that

[glossy niche]

i live in a shit hole with no infrastructure lol

[naive igloo]

damn

[fallen tusk]

Hi guys

[unkempt python]

i found him

https://www.youtube.com/@programmersarealsohuman5909

i love programmer satire

[carmine apex]

SNITCH

[brittle void]

this one looks good

[carmine apex]

petition to ban ghost.ops_

[brittle void]

hehehe

[thick ore]

HEY

rule 5

no custom clients

also no hypocrisy

ban me and ghost ops

[brittle void]

also, no alt accounts

[thick ore]

that's not allowed?

[brittle void]

therefore ban @thick ore and @tight granite

[thick ore]

bro thought he cooked

[brittle void]

im a male
why would i cook?
\s

(its a joke alright)

[honest star]

Saying it's a joke doesn't make the sexism suddenly okay. Also maybe don't showcase that you're using a modified client

[brittle void]

but now you know the culprit

for waking u up

[honest star]

I'm a moderator and we have a message change log

Also the context makes it pretty fucking clear

[carmine apex]

and tbh, half of the edit log is probably me making tiny adjustments

[ashen ridge]

Does UserScript and Userstyle fall under modded client

[vale raven]

Does it change your client?

Then yes.

[dim solstice]

deadline driven development LMFAO

[fringe rain]

Wistoria wand and magic is beautiful

[brittle void]

which one almost died?
you?
ur pc?
or that python?

[undone thorn]

that's definitely not a python

bro installed cobra

[marble bay]

anaconda 🗣️

[thick ore]

what if

someone made an assembly interpreter

and called it a "virtualized machine"

[young shoal]

they make those

[brittle void]

guys, which one should i go for?
the classic if-else?

const handleSelectFilters = useCallback((event) => {
  if (event.target.checked)
    selectedFilters.current = [...selectedFilters.current, event.target.value]

  else
    selectedFilters.current = selectedFilters.current.filter(item => item !== event.target.value)
})

or the ternary operator

const handleSelectFilters = useCallback((event) => {
  selectedFilters.current = (event.target.checked)
    ? [...selectedFilters.current, event.target.value] 
    : selectedFilters.current.filter(item => item !== event.target.value);
});

which one would u guys choose and why?

[strange blade]

the first one for readability

[brittle void]

ok

anybody else?

[tardy rain]

If else yes

[brittle void]

ok, but why?

[small coral]

first one

[tardy rain]

Tho if thats all the function does just return

So you dont have to indent your else

if (cond) 
   return [...]
return arr.filter(...)

[brittle void]

i dont want to return

im doing an assignment

[tardy rain]

end the function with an empty return then

idk i prefer not to have weird indentation

[strange blade]

i forgot mar blocked me (so no reactions)

[brittle void]

but that'll still give u same amount of lines of code
with same number of indented and unindented lines

[tardy rain]

Also weird to have an expression do assignments

[undone granite]

What did you do to get blocked

[tardy rain]

Who cares about lines of code

[strange blade]

I told him to block me

[tardy rain]

It all gets minimized anyway

[thick ore]

mar did you block me too 🥺

[brittle void]

no, you're talking about indentations
thats why

[tardy rain]

No

[thick ore]

yay

[strange blade]

lol

I'm the only one

[tardy rain]

Youre the one posting questionable frieren gifs lol

[strange blade]

I don't post them anymore

[brittle void]

u sure?

[strange blade]

I'm barely even active these days 🥲

[tardy rain]

I shall unblock you then

[thick ore]

congratulations

we must have a celebration for this occasion

[young shoal]

💀

[strange blade]

I'll be sure to tread lightly in ot2 (as it's your home turf ig)

[tardy rain]

frieren driven socializing

[tardy rain]

I think its easier to read if you treat one branch as the default one in these cases

if cond:
   x = y
else:
   x = z
``` looks weird to me, i'd rather have
```py
x = z
if cond:
   x = y

🤷‍♀️

[young shoal]

depends on the vibe

[small coral]

i feel like that should only be done when one of the operations are "harmless"

[young shoal]

z can be expensive to compute

[small coral]

^^^

[tardy rain]

You can dump it in a function and return early

You should prefer what looks good to people anyway, in js youre bundling and minimising and doing all sorts of things

And in general you should prefer guard clauses

[brittle void]

guys

im making a tristate checkbox

in react

and idk how to let the user(myself) to handle the state change

export default function TriStateCheckBox(props) {
  const {
    valuesArray = ['true', 'false'], defaultState = 2, onChange, onStateChange,
    inputProps, ...extraProps
   } = props

  // onStateChange: (currState: int, currVal: any) => void

im thinking of passing down the current state and value to the onStateChange function
but im also in need of the previous value sometimes
should i just supply the function call with its previous value too?

ok nvm

solved the issue already

[quasi blaze]

Is this really a mistake?

[young shoal]

it depends

[brittle void]

sql does have json datatype

so yes

[graceful basin]

it depends is, of course, right

[young shoal]

🤔

[graceful basin]

but usually you don't want json in a relation database

most modern SQL databases can indeed work with JSON.

[brittle void]

mongodb 👍

[young shoal]

it just depends what you're doing with it. if you're treating it as an atomic value, there might be nothing wrong with it

[brittle void]

what doe atomic value mean?

[graceful basin]

atomic means not further divisible

[brittle void]

ok again, what does it mean?

[graceful basin]

typically it'd be something like a jwt token

where yes, there is further data in a jwt token that can be split, but your database just cares that it is a jwt token

[brittle void]

using it as a one whole value, rather than using it as a combined form of multiple attributes?

[graceful basin]

yea

[brittle void]

icic

i think i've used sql for this situation

for storing a json data as json, and retireving it back for one single value

but the json is not that long tho

am i cooked?

[young shoal]

maybe?

[brittle void]

its cuz i was just then started to learn sql
and i've decided to split the data between multiple tables, rather than storing them all in 1 table
cuz idk how to use the id to refer to values in other tables in a single sql statement
so i just decided to store all the values in 1 db, under 1 table

but now, i'd rewrite it to store values in separate tables

[tardy rain]

That just looks like some guy trying to sell a course tbh

[young shoal]

yeah. with a deliberately unnuanced take

average linkedin moment

[graceful basin]

also, performance is not the problem here

[young shoal]

i'm not sure what performance they're talking about. do they mean the first parsing into binary data?

don't most databases with support for json use a BSON type thing

[graceful basin]

I think they just say performance because it's something non-technical people understand

[young shoal]

wack

[brittle void]

am i sounding like a sales man there?

[tardy rain]

Im talking about linkedin guy

He's definitely a salesman

He might even travel for it too

[brittle void]

who's that linkedin guy?

[tardy rain]

🤷‍♀️

[brittle void]

is it a convo resumed from another channel?

[tardy rain]

Its a keezy post

[patent girder]

^this guy

[brittle void]

ic

[young shoal]

fr

[brittle void]

guys, why cant i reuse this?

import { useCallback } from 'react'
import { useForm } from 'react-hook-form'

function CustomComponent() {

  // ...

  const { unregister, setValue } = useForm()

  const f = (name) => { // why cant i reuse this function to create multiple useCallbacks?
    return useCallback((_, val) => {
      if (val === null) unregister(name)
      else setValue(name, val)
    }, [name])
  }
}

any ideas?

it says im rendering more hooks that it previously had

[lavish osprey]

What's up

[brittle void]

hey

[tardy rain]

What do you have above this code

Early returns?

[brittle void]

nope

nice attempt for joke tho

[tardy rain]

Its not a joke

The most common cause for this error is early returns above your hooks

[brittle void]

..no?

the error was i was creating way more hooks than i should have

i wasn't reusing hooks

i was creating duplicates

thats the problem

[naive igloo]

does anybody know how can you replicate this example from diesel async?

the issue i am having is that, since .get_results takes an &mut AsyncPgConnection

i cant really call second .get_results until i await first one

(since first's future will hold ref to the conn)

[fringe rain]

replicate in python?

[naive igloo]

no

i meant still do that in rust

its just that according to borrow checker rules that example shouldn't be possible

but i might be just stupid so figured to ask

and rust server is just a bit asleep rn

so

here some people also know rust

[fringe rain]

which one

oh i see you there

well, goodluck

[glossy niche]

chat I need your help, what's the easiest way to access my Windows 11 desktop from my Linux laptop on the same network? my room is so noisy it's gonna make me fucking kill myself so I'm gonna go sit in the attic instead

[fringe rain]

access in what sense?

Can't you ssh into it

[brittle void]

rdp

or ssh

rdp gang
lesss goooo

[glossy niche]

remote desktop

how do I do that

[young shoal]

long keyboard wire

[glossy niche]

which client .

?

[glossy niche]

I assume I need a 50 meter hdmi cable too?

[young shoal]

yeah

[fringe rain]

You should invest into noise cancellation technology

[glossy niche]

longest I have is 15m

[young shoal]

but realistically you can do it with one or two usb-c

[fringe rain]

I just tried it a few days ago and it blew my mind

[glossy niche]

not good enough

[fringe rain]

I guess I haven't tried it with a room full of talking people yet

[glossy niche]

tried böse headphone, ear plugs, 33db NRR ear muffs

double layer glass

[fringe rain]

At this point there's only one solution

[glossy niche]

either I have the most annoying shit heads in the world around me or I'm too easily irritated

[brittle void]

https://symless.com/synergy

[fringe rain]

https://tenor.com/view/they-dont-get-to-live-rick-grimes-rick-grimes-savage-revenge-no-mercy-gif-26347531

[glossy niche]

ik this app but I don't think this is what I need

oh sounds simple enough

thanks

[hardy bluff]

Python stone age confirmed?1!1!1!1!

[glossy niche]

OK so RDP worked nicely after i figured out windows password shit fuckery

ty guys

it seems crappy over bad WiFi tho

ig I'll just drag some ether net cables around

[tropic ore]

WLWCCS
weally long words created combining sounds

[solemn tulip]

proprietary 😔

or wait

apparently the thing I actually use is a fork pf synergy 1 which is the one version that's open source

[thick ore]

this is hilarious

https://docs.pydis.wtf/meeting-notes/2023/08/22/2023-08-22.html

[grave cove]

most serious devops meeting

[acoustic moss]

fr

who made these minutes public bro

[prime lagoon]

after figuring out a dictionary in other language, and being able to see the dictionary via visual debugging, I finally get it

i suspected dictionary worked something like that, but seeing it makes appreciate how it really works

[bright grove]

https://paste.pythondiscord.com/ZODQ

[solemn tulip]

these meeting notes are too amusing to be real 🥴

A minute passes in the United Kingdom. 60 seconds pass in Germany.

Unfortunately all of the four fully grown software engineers on call are incapable of reading and understanding a manual page.

Bella blasts in (because of his explosive personality). The team is shocked by this, as it was known that Bella was currently on his anti-celibacy trip and thus his Brothers From Another Mother were not on the priority list.

Joe and Johannes discuss Dovecot and realize that it is probably a too complicated solution. Chris is still browsing car pictures. Judging by the reflection in Fredrick's sunglasses, he appears to be staring at a white screen.

[strange blade]

Brothers From Another Mother...

[timid mountain]

any recommended free email that you can read with IMAP?

[naive igloo]

uhm, gmail.com?

[quasi blaze]

It’s frustrating when directors at my company aren’t following my technical advice

[grave cove]

have you expressed your concerns in a way that they understand? perhaps it's less a matter of them not following it and more a matter of bad communication

[quasi blaze]

No. What it’s like is that I propose solutions to their concerns and offer the best technical advice that I can give them. As the directors, they ultimately make the final decision if they want to follow through with my advice or follow through with their own solution and I have to carry on whatever solution is instructed by them. Which makes my job more harder than it needs to be.

In actuality, they don’t have to listen to my technical advice. Hence them being above me but it’s indisputable that I have far better understanding of software development and the architecture of our software out of everyone in my company.

It’s essentially like a doctor who has the specialized knowledge in the medical field writing up a prescription and offers the best advice for their patient. The patient actually doesn’t have to listen to them no matter how effective the prescription is. It’s the same thing with my situation here.

[young shoal]

maybe they are considering things that you haven't

[tardy rain]

You also shouldnt compare yourself to a doctor...

[quasi blaze]

I think the point flew over your head. Point is, whatever the advice, or solution a professional is suggesting to you, you are not obligated to follow as their client

[tardy rain]

Youre not an expert, you dont have years and years of training and medical experience
Your technical advice is not worth as much as a doctor's and theres definitely stuff your bossman is considering that you dont know about

Also youre the client

Theyre hiring you

[young shoal]

why did you lead with

It’s frustrating when directors at my company aren’t following my technical advice
it sounds like you're complaining and asking for solutions

[tardy rain]

If your boss isnt going with your suggestions, a mature developer would first look inward
It sounds like you're assuming your advice is 100% the correct choice, but is it?

[young shoal]

mar, no one thinks that. they first ask why, lol

[tardy rain]

Wdym no one thinks that

Keezy does

[young shoal]

i meant the "first look inward" part. why would you do that if you don't know why they didn't listen?

[tardy rain]

I would ask "whats wrong with it"

I dont think keezy has asked this

I think he went straight to frustration and the doctor-patient analogy lol

[warped sentinel]

worth checking out https://medium.com/@IliyanaStareva/how-to-use-the-darci-framework-in-project-management-694f756680fa

[tardy rain]

He's welcome to correct me

Doctor thing kinda triggered me lol

Doctors get second guessed all the time, ever heard of the phrase "second opinion"?

I don't think they take it personal

[low chasm]

id like a second opinion on that

[young shoal]

cool

[tardy rain]

You still gotta pay for this first one lol

[low chasm]

don't be stingy man

a little bit of a discount won't hurt

[tardy rain]

I'll undiagnose you so fast

[quasi blaze]

Again, you’re overly focusing on the example rather than the premise of my argument but I digress

[tardy rain]

Did you ask why

[quasi blaze]

No. I usually just follow instructions and not ask questions

[tardy rain]

Lmao @young shoal thoughts?

[quasi blaze]

But I think what I am saying is true. They don’t have to follow every technical advice I give them, they are above me

For better or for worse

[tardy rain]

No they dont, but you getting frustrated and doing nothing to troubleshoot this is the problem

You cant be annoyed and also not do anything about it
Pick one

[young shoal]

isn't this the opposite of being disagreeable

[tardy rain]

Yes its very agreeable in fact

Subservient, you could say

Youre not a slave keezy, ask questions, damn

[quasi blaze]

Thanks. I will check it out

[quasi blaze]

I ask you all what’s the solution?

[tardy rain]

The solution is to ask your boss why he doesnt like your solution

[quasi blaze]

This is what I have been wrestling with. I have a technical profession and I have a non-technical manager

[young shoal]

that's a copout

[tardy rain]

How do you know what their understanding is if you dont ask questions

[warped sentinel]

That's a non sequitur.

As rational agents, if two people disagree, it comes down to them not having the same information or not prioritizing for the same factors. Asking why is someone making a particular decision could help give you insights about their thoughts process and aligning better with them

So that in the future, your thoughts and your director's thoughts are more aligned

Related to that, if you understand better the thought process, context they have or what your director is optimizing for, you may also get insights into information they may not account for and help them correct for that

[young shoal]

the simplest example is some miscommunication happening and they don't understand your proposal properly. you can't figure that out if you don't ask

[terse harbor]

In actuality, they don’t have to listen to my technical advice. Hence them being above me but it’s indisputable that I have far better understanding of software development and the architecture of our software out of everyone in my company.
Pub has already pointed that possibility out, but perhaps it could be your communication? Soft skills are tremendously important when talking to clients - ultimately, it's your responsibility as a developer to translate the "nerd stuff" (on the sense of, technical details that are only relevant to you) into something they understand and is relevant to them

That's something worth looking into

[quasi blaze]

Oh yes. I studied this in my IT Project Management course in college.

My directors are definitely the decision makers

[uneven pine]

Oh boy, keezyposting

Great bedridden COVID entertainment

[unkempt python]

BRO

I JUST LEARNED THAT SYNTAX HIGHLIGHTING DIDN"T HAPPEN TILL THE 80s

[carmine apex]

tbh that's much earlier than i expected

[tropic ore]

yes..?

[unkempt python]

the bros wrote unix without syntax highlighting

[tropic ore]

you can't really color punchcards' holes can you?

[warped sentinel]

bro thinks screens had colors back then

[unkempt python]

oh true

[tropic ore]

..can you?
Jake Chudnow - Moon Men plays

a hole is an absence of (solid and liquid) matter, but light passes through it as well

this implies that a hole could technically contain "color" in the form of visible light

but since it is the absence of material, there is nothing to reflect it back to the eyes

[quasi blaze]

Btw to put more in context, i have advised my directors to never delete data on the front end because the deleted data is still referenced on the back-end. They didn’t listen. So now the software creates HTTP 404 error response tickets on the front end because the software was trying to fetch them

[warped sentinel]

Were they made aware of the consequences of such action?

[quasi blaze]

Yea

[warped sentinel]

Were they then okay with the consequences?

[quasi blaze]

I iterated this in a few meetings

[quasi blaze]

No they don’t want the 404 http error response created tickets anymore

[warped sentinel]

might be worth asking them why it's not okay for it to happen when they were fully aware it would happen?

[quasi blaze]

They said they thought it would be okay to delete data

I think they were dismissing my advice

[warped sentinel]

That's only half the story though. Being okay to delete data implies you are okay with the consequences of deleting data

[fringe rain]

whoa to think screens didnt have color only 60 years ago

we're an advancing civilization

we're the aliens 👽

[brittle void]

guys, i have a code like this

if (a && (b && c))
  throw new Error("err 1")

else if (!(a || (b && c)))
  throw new Error("err 2")

else if (!a && (b  && c))
  // do some other stuff, and proceed with the rest of the code

should i make it like this?

if (b && c) {
  if (a)
    throw new Error("err 1") // edited to differentiate, after confusing the crowd

  else
    // do some other stuff, and proceed with the rest of the code
}
else if (!a)
  throw new Error("err 2") // edited to differentiate, after confusing the crowd

or is there a better way to do this?

which one would u guys choose? and why?

[plush sun]

I don't know what's better, but if (a) ... else if (!a) is redundant

[rough sapphire]

we

[brittle void]

oh shi-
sry removing that

[brittle void]

how about now?

[plush sun]

It's okay now

[brittle void]

but which one should i go for?
no nested if's
or nested if's?

[late orchid]

I feel like either the first or```js
if (b && c) {
if (a)
throw new Error("...")
}
else if (!a)
throw new Error("...")

// do some other stuff, and proceed with the rest of the code

[brittle void]

ok hold on

[late orchid]

keep all guards before the main logic

which way of structuring it works best can vary depending on your actual conditions

another option is just making const bc = b && c; then doing the first with that instead

[brittle void]

if (b && c) {
  if (a)
    throw new Error("...")

  else
    // do some other stuff that does require b and c to be true, and proceed with the rest of the code
}
else if (!a)
  throw new Error("...")

[late orchid]

that is the one I would recommend the least

[brittle void]

ok but the commented part relies on b and c to be true

if thats the least, then whats the best to be recommended?

[late orchid]

uh

[brittle void]

sry
hit enter by accident

so, what now?

[solemn tulip]

is the first two checks not just an xor check?

[brittle void]

bruh what?

[late orchid]

const bc = b && c;
if (a && bc)
    throw new Error()
if (!a && !bc)
    throw new Error()

if (bc)
    // do some other stuff that does require b and c to be true, and proceed with the rest of the code

[solemn tulip]

if both true -> error
if neither true -> error

that is error if not xor

[brittle void]

i guess you are right

[late orchid]

you may still want different error messages in each case to be fair

[brittle void]

but the error stmt's are not having the same msg
my bad guys sry

[solemn tulip]

something like "exactly one of these must be true" is a pretty sensible error message

[late orchid]

Not if what "one of these" represents is opaque to the caller

but yeah, like most things there are too many 'it depends' to give a concrete answer

in most cases it might make enough sense, but I can imagine some cases in which it wouldn't

[solemn tulip]

you could rewrite as

bc = b && c;
if (a && bc)
  throw new Error("...")
if (!(a || bc))
  throw new Error("...")
if (bc)
  ...

[late orchid]

that said, I feel like in a lot of cases knowing if both are true or if both are false would be essential to help the end user debug, if it's an issue the end user can resolve
if it's just an error within a library that should never happen thus it'll be the responsability of another developer to go debug their code, it should matter much less

[solemn tulip]

skip the elses

and the !a in !a && bc would be superfluous

[late orchid]

ugh, I'm kinda tired. I formulated that very poorly

[solemn tulip]

because you know exactly one of the cases is true

[late orchid]

[quasi blaze]

I had to grow an enormous amount of patience having non-tech highers up

[tardy rain]

No you havent

Keezy you act like we wipe our memories of you after every conversation you start

[young shoal]

keezy just use Twitter

[thick ore]

keezy i miss the LFOTD

[vale raven]

How much patience have they had to grow having a much-tech lower-down?

[quasi blaze]

What is lfotd?

[thick ore]

logical fallacy of the day

[vale raven]

“Logical fallacy of the day”

[quasi blaze]

I don’t do that anymore. It doesn’t fit the demographics of this server

[thick ore]

aw

[quasi blaze]

What do you mean much tech?

[vale raven]

They’re a non-technical manager
You’re a technical employee
If you had to grow patience
Surely they did too?

[quasi blaze]

If they did, I wouldn’t know for what. With my knowledge and technical skills, I’m trying to guide them on the right path towards their requested destinations and frustration comes in when they don’t listen and become dismissive

[tardy rain]

Theyre probably equally frustrated that their "technical" employee is coming up with solutions that dont fit business needs

[quasi blaze]

Every solution has to qualify both technical and business needs in software development

[tardy rain]

Every good solution

If youre frustrated they dont get the tech part of the solution then theyre frustrated you dont get the business part of it

[quasi blaze]

And…this is why I said months ago that every employee in a company should have a basis fundamental understanding of what every employee’s role is in the company

[tardy rain]

I doubt they're posting on discord about their dev employee not getting it and how frustrating it is

Have some humility, guy

You'd be better received if you asked questions on how to deal with it rather than just make statements

[quasi blaze]

I don’t think I have a shred of ego in me

[tardy rain]

Bro you literally compared yourself to a doctor

Every time you mention your "non-technical" manager you talk about them like theyre idiots

[young shoal]

I'm curious if you've found a community where it fits

[quasi blaze]

Yes I have

[spare oriole]

you do.

[young shoal]

where?

[quasi blaze]

A philosophy server

[young shoal]

link?

[brittle void]

[young shoal]

a fundamental understanding wouldn't help at all. they can know that you write code, but that isn't going to help then understand a complex solution that you suggest

[quasi blaze]

Are you trying to get me banned?

[young shoal]

no

I'm genuinely curious

[brittle void]

a philosophy server in my racist app?

[young shoal]

I honestly forgot links were auto removed

[quasi blaze]

Rule 6,
Do not post unapproved advertising

[brittle void]

https://discord.gg/tccpp

[brittle void]

no its not

[young shoal]

it's not advertising lmao

[brittle void]

im guessing
bro's into scientology

[young shoal]

they are in general

discord server invite links

[graceful basin]

there's a whitelist

[vale raven]

Good morning orange name

[brittle void]

gud eve woof

[quasi blaze]

You’re wrong

[spare oriole]

that's certainly the impression you give

every time you describe interactions with people in your company it doesn't paint them in a positive light

[quasi blaze]

I never even slightly made that insinuation

[spare oriole]

you did. in more ways than one

[quasi blaze]

So that made you conclude that I think they’re idiots?

Please do not strawman me

[spare oriole]

your description of them.

[tardy rain]

Stop calling them non technical too

Youre not very technical either my guy

[spare oriole]

With my knowledge and technical skills, I’m trying to guide them on the right path towards their requested destinations and frustration comes in when they don’t listen and become dismissive
this sounds so condescending as well

[tardy rain]

No offence but you're not exactly an expert

[quasi blaze]

How would you describe one who doesn’t have a tech profession?

[vale raven]

How so?

Let’s set the definitions

[tardy rain]

No 😡

[brittle void]

trust him homie

[tardy rain]

The job is making a bunch of http requests

[quasi blaze]

This honestly sounds ridiculous. I am literally the only developer in my company who’s responsible for the back-end as well as responsible in deploying our software to our virtual server.

[tardy rain]

Keezy should stop talking about himself like he's a world renowned expert

[tardy rain]

.

[quasi blaze]

I am using several technologies to make our software run successfully and I am not technical? 🤔

Docker

Linux

Python

Linode

[tardy rain]

🤨

You dont refer to yourself as non business, dont call your manager non technical and then say youre frustrated at them

[quasi blaze]

Shell scripting

Mount binding

Log management

[quasi blaze]

But I am non-business though

I am not a manager

[tardy rain]

So you understand there may be business things you dont have a clear understanding of

[quasi blaze]

Yes I am aware

[spare oriole]

what you just described sounds basics to me

[tardy rain]

Are you sure you're aware?

You said earlier you have a basic business understanding

[quasi blaze]

Where?

[tardy rain]

But you dont afford your manager this

[vale raven]

So you can help fill in for the day if BobbySue in accounting calls in sick?
What about Jane in HR?

[quasi blaze]

Absolutely not. The keywords here are basis fundamental understanding

[tardy rain]

Im sure you can fill in for HR

They dont do much

[vale raven]

Define those keywords please

I know that HR talks to people
I know that accounting makes spreadsheets

Do I understand the fundamentals?

[vale raven]

So… do I have that?

[vale raven]

.

[spare oriole]

keezy makes sarati look sane

[tardy rain]

Keezy you should go ask your manager for feedback right now and dont post about this topic again until you do so

[quasi blaze]

I don’t know. You tell me

[vale raven]

If you can’t define it then how do you make sure people have it?

[tardy rain]

Im curious about what it is youre messing up with your solutions

Go ask for me please

[brittle void]

@true flax

[quasi blaze]

Fine. Maybe you guys are right. Perhaps I am not a good technical consultant for my company

[vale raven]

Are you a consultant?
I thought you were the sole developer?

[quasi blaze]

I am a developer but I obviously have to advise my company on the best routes to take to get to their requested destinations

Advising is consulting

[quasi blaze]

Meetings. If you’re in a meeting about the company’s finances, have a fundamental understanding of finances regardless of your profession.

If you’re in a meeting about software, have a fundamental understanding of software development regardless of your profession.

[spare oriole]

that's not how it works.

[quasi blaze]

You don’t have to be super advanced

[quasi blaze]

This is my “should” claim. I am not explaining what is the reality

[quasi blaze]

I produced an automated program that creates an excel spreadsheet of the finances of my company’s different projects. I clearly needed a fundamental understanding of finances in order to produce the spreadsheet

It updates daily

[spare oriole]

not really, i can do the same without understanding the underlying stuff as long as i get a good explanation of what the end user wants

[vale raven]

Just curious, where to?
Email? SMB? S3?

[quasi blaze]

To our company’s OneDrive

[vale raven]

Did you use the Graph SDK or some third party module?

I’ve been getting really frustrated with Graph

I don’t think most of the third party ones even work anymore though, so can’t use them

[quasi blaze]

No. Windows task scheduler. Lol

[young shoal]

that's orthogonal to the question

[quasi blaze]

Use for what? The automation?

[vale raven]

How?

[vale raven]

The interaction with OneDrive

[vale raven]

Did you… is the scheduled task running Python that outputs the XLSX into your OneDrive folder so that OneDrive syncs it to the rest of the company for you?

[quasi blaze]

No it’s running the Docker image

[vale raven]

ah, yeah that's basically what I do

[vale raven]

So... to restate the original question, do you interact with OneDrive from your code? Or do you have your code save the file to your OneDrive folder to let the OneDrive desktop app upload it?

[quasi blaze]

I am looking at the icon of a folder and it’s a building. The type is “System Folder”. The excel spreadsheet gets overwritten each time it automates and I think this system folder is the OneDrive

[quasi blaze]

I use a batch script

The batch script is what’s being automated and batch script runs the docker command

Docker run command binds both the directory of the program inside of the Docker container to the directory of the OneDrive system folder

[robust zephyr]

I think you all have otherworldly patience to engage in this conversation

[young shoal]

look up orthogonal

[tardy rain]

Post the definition from google, its how everyone does it

.wa short orthogonal

[median dome]

Wolfram Alpha

In elementary geometry, orthogonal is the same as perpendicular. Two lines or curves are orthogonal if they are perpendicular at their point of intersection. Two vectors v and w of the real plane R^2 or the real space R^3 are orthogonal iff their dot product v·w equals 0. This condition has been exploited to define orthogonality in the more abstract context of the n‐dimensional real space R^n. More generally, two elements v and w of an inner product space E are called orthogonal if the inner product of v and w is 0

[young shoal]

very useful

[young shoal]

why are you using docker if you need to bind mount for output all the time. just install Python instead of docker and it'll be way easier

[quasi blaze]

You have a point. The original plan was to update the spreadsheet overnight. Which means I would need to push the program into our virtual server and download something on the server that grants the virtual server access to our company’s system folder because nobody works during the night time. That plan was changed so I just kept the Docker image

[brittle void]

changed to what?

[quasi blaze]

To updating every morning

[young shoal]

that doesn't sound like it needs docker either

[vale raven]

Three containers running on three different VMs are involved in making my reports

Actually only two now*

But my point is -- docker run taking away the need to deal with installing Python and keeping venvs up-to-date on servers is absolutely glorious

[brittle void]

if the python script is just ran in a single machine forever, i'd try to compile it down to an exe

or i'd just opt out for smth like pola.rs

python is a one big memory hog

[vale raven]

Do you.... know what polars does?

[brittle void]

imo

[brittle void]

mimic the powers of pandas, right?

oh wait

ok idk whats the equivalent of openpyxl

in rust

[vale raven]

What does that have to do with exe(s)?

[brittle void]

i'd go for bundled exe's rather than having python installations in vms

[vale raven]

The VMs are Linux

[brittle void]

though it costs little to nothing, premature optimization is in my blood

though they are alpine, i'd premature optimize it
cuz its in my blood

[undone granite]

I dont see how thats a good idea

[vale raven]

No one thinks it is

[brittle void]

idk man
it always tempts me to not to do such micro optimizations

is there any cure for this?

i always do such acts

[vale raven]

You're not optimizing anything

[undone granite]

Yeah

[vale raven]

You're having multiple installations of Python

[brittle void]

wat

[vale raven]

That makes it take up way more space

Optimizing would be making all of your programs share a single venv

[brittle void]

doesnt companies stick with a single python version for a long time?

[glossy niche]

mmmmmmmmmmmm not really how it goes, usually it's the code base that sticks with a version, new code bases have no issue with picking up a new version, but old legacy code might be hard to update

at least AFAIK

sometimes I open the code for an aws lambda and it's in some archaic version of node js