ot1-perplexing-regexing

[thick osprey]

https://tenor.com/view/lilo-and-stitch-lilo-stitch-shes-touching-me-im-not-touching-you-gif-14803068

[vale raven]

that's a good show I like that show

[fresh basalt]

I haven't seen it in a long time. It was very funny and had a great cast who moved on to do great things.

I think Arrested Development was big for Michael Cera.

It gave us Will Arnett too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Walter

One of the best characters in Archer too.

[lament cairn]

@vague pond #python-discussion message both can coexist

[vague pond]

?

i dont understand

[lament cairn]

you can celebrate one without invalidating the other

honestly it also confuses me - I guess it's not as easy to show support for, unlike pride where the bare minimum is changing logos and profile pics?

i guess the best way to... not sure if celebrate is the right word but it's the only one I can think of atm, is to ask your male friends how they're doing, support them
and to keep it up after june

[spare oriole]

this server is very supportive of events, the main problem is getting people to submit branding that can be used for the server.

[bleak lintel]

men's mental health month is november in the uk

[lament cairn]

oh right yea there's also regional differences

[bleak lintel]

we do movember here, grow a moustache, raise money for men's mental health charities, it's pretty huge

my attempt from last year

[pliant nexus]

I just found evidence of Camel Case's superiority

All chemical formulas are written in camel case 💀

[soft violet]

Are they, though?

[acoustic moss]

its pascal case if anything

[soft violet]

My point.

[small coral]

are you sure it's camelCase or PascalCase?

[pliant nexus]

now that i think about it it.... 💀

let me change the thingy then

I just found evidence of Pascal Case's superiority
All chemical formulas are written in camel case 💀

[harsh tundra]

They're not really, because you don't re-name the elements, you just much them together. Element code is just always first letter capital. And for chemical compounds written as words, they don't have any capital letters...

[pliant nexus]

they to? HCl for example

think of H as a word and Cl as another

[harsh tundra]

"because you don't re-name the elements, you just mush* them together. Element code is just always first letter capital"

And if you write them as words, they don't have any capital letters...

Also, for the code itself, the numbers don't follow - they're literally small, lol
And some compounds have parentheses in the name

[pliant nexus]

Ohh, i get it

[solemn tulip]

H[2]O

[harsh tundra]

I meant like Cu_3(PO_4)_2

[solemn tulip]

I know, it's just funnier to claim they are indices rather than counts, so we can use indexing

[acoustic moss]

hm yes give me the third hydrogen

[cloud oxide]

is this an ok way to fix a typo in a git command?

🙃

[pliant nexus]

is there any reasonable benefit in having declaration statements for variables in languages?

especially in dynamic ones

i dont really get the point of them

[graceful basin]

their usual task is to state the scope of the variable

[thick ore]

rebase

git rebase -i

then reword it

pick xxxxxxx add retour feature frontend
- pick xxxxxxx add retour fete
+ reword xxxxxxx add retour feat

[quasi blaze]

Logical Fallacy of the Day: “Nirvana Fallacy”

This is also known as the perfect solution fallacy. It’s comparing actual things with unrealistic, idealized alternatives. It can also refer to the tendency to assume there is a perfect solution to a particular problem.

Logical Form:

X is what we have.

Y is the perfect situation.

Therefore, X is not good enough.

Example #1:

What’s the point of making drinking illegal under the age of 21?  Kids still manage to get alcohol.

Dismissing an available solution because it’s not the “perfect solution” is a logical fallacy. Don’t make conclusions like this.

[thick ore]

HOLY SHIT NIRVANA

[young shoal]

keezy when are we getting python tidbit of the day

[thick ore]

she logical on my fallacy till i keezy

[strange blade]

lol

[granite tree]

Huh. I was just binging nirvana yesterday. +1

[lament cairn]

firefox containers

[quasi blaze]

I am starting to respect rationalism as a philosophy now that I have discovered more logical fallacies. It’s because I think logic is the best form of consistency and rationalism as a philosophy teaches that.

[young shoal]

formal logic is generally useless for real life

[dapper dew]

I like stoicism in principle, but like all things I think it is less helpful the more strict you are

Ice is a solid

[vale raven]

So tell me

Is water wet?

[charred pine]

Yes

[vale raven]

Oh I see I'm late

[charred pine]

Water is wet

[young shoal]

I think I was there for this ot

[charred pine]

[lament cairn]

waterr is dry

[dapper dew]

But ice is just frozen water, so water can be wet

If liquid water can't be wet, you are saying liquid water is dry

(also this is why the ot name started, it is such a nerd snipe kind of conversation it can just be argued endlessly)

[quasi blaze]

Sound can’t be neither of those

What? It’s either an object can be wet or dry

That argument is correct

Sound is not an object

Did you read what I said?

[honest star]

how do you handle amorphous solids? Like can honey be wet? what about glass?

[quasi blaze]

I’m pointing out to you that your comparison is a false equivalency

[honest star]

that doesn't answer my question but okay

[low chasm]

.wa s define wet

[median dome]

Wolfram Alpha

covered or soaked with a liquid such as water

[quasi blaze]

No. That’s a fallacy in what you’re suggesting.

[low chasm]

simple enough, can you coat something with itself?

[honest star]

I think you are fundamentally misunderstanding his point

[timid latch]

Yes

[low chasm]

can you coat water with more water?

[timid latch]

No, but your statement wasn't limited to water

[honest star]

can you coat a droplet of oil or water with the other?

[low chasm]

hm

when you add water to water it kind of just becomes more water

[quasi blaze]

If liquid water can't be wet, you are saying liquid water is dry

By Brad

Your response

That's like me saying sound can't be bright so it must be dark

Liquid is an object. Sound is not. Therefore, you are making a false equivalency.

Taking your argument in the “spirit” is an appeal to faith fallacy which you just committed.

[low chasm]

like, coating water with oil?

[young shoal]

what is an "object"? you haven't defined it

[honest star]

By focusing on logical fallacies, you're actually missing the point of the argument entirely. (and so the fallacy you're trying to apply doesn't really work)

[young shoal]

🗿

[low chasm]

can we assume that liquids can't be coated with other liquids?

[timid latch]

Glass is a liquid, and glass can be wet

[dapper dew]

You can make an emulsion though, like mayo

[honest star]

I don't think so. I think you can coat water with oil or vice versa

[honest star]

Glass is not really a liquid. It's an amorphous solid

[low chasm]

ok, fair enough

[quasi blaze]

His conclusion of his counterargument falls flat due to his logical consistency. If you would like you can steelman his argument for me.

[honest star]

You should re-state his argument in your own words, that way we know where it's going wrong for you

[young shoal]

you should be able to interpret arguments charitably on your own. otherwise, what's the point?

[honest star]

If you cannot re-state his argument in your own words .... you don't understand well it enough to know how to apply logical fallacies

[quasi blaze]

A material thing that can be seen or touched

[low chasm]

but I wouldn't call mayo like, an egg coated with oil

[timid latch]

Using a different analogy

This rock isn't crying therefore it must be happy

[honest star]

What is his argument in your own words? Do you understand it?

[young shoal]

you can see sound as it moves through a medium, and you can feel it by touch

[dapper dew]

Maybe a vinaigrette would be a better exmple

[quasi blaze]

No. Because it doesn’t make any sense. I am not going to unravel a fallacious argument

[honest star]

Okay, so it's actually not a fallacious argument at all. You just don't understand it.

[quasi blaze]

If you want to be the charitable one @honest star please steelman his argument

[low chasm]

the vinegar is coated with oil?

[young shoal]

you have the order of operations backwards. you can't evaluate the logic if you aren't following it to begin with

[young shoal]

this is something you should do yourself before engaging at all

[quasi blaze]

I have already dissected his argument on why it doesn’t make sense

[low chasm]

can you dissect an argument you didn't understand?

[young shoal]

if you don't understand the logic, you can't conclude one or the other

[low chasm]

hmm, I guess I can see that

[honest star]

1. I recommend you be charitable and stop focusing on fallacies. It's actually making you a worse arguer, which I suspect is the opposite of your goal.

2. Lisan is saying that nothing can be wet (liquid or objects or whatever), because wetness is a neurological experience. Therefore, if you follow the logic of that, the "sound can be neither dark or light" makes senses -- because the issue is with whether something can be "wet" not if liquid is an object or not.

[timid latch]

Basically the argument was "the absence of X doesn't imply the opposite of X is true, because that property doesn't apply to this concept"

Sound not being light doesn't make it dark
Water not being dry doesn't make it wet

[quasi blaze]

Is your claim that wetness is a neurological experience?

[honest star]

LITERALLY just scroll up and read

[young shoal]

lit rally

[quasi blaze]

I did. That’s why I asked

How is wetness a neurological experience?

[honest star]

you should scroll up and read. They even linked it for me when I asked about amorphous solids

[young shoal]

can't you just what they already said?

[honest star]

You can't argue if you don't read half of what is being said...

[quasi blaze]

This is how this thread started. What am I missing?

[young shoal]

the thread

[honest star]

because as discussions progress, people can change their viewpoints
It's why you should read all the messages in a discussion

[young shoal]

it's times like these where I look back on my ap lang and analytical writing courses and realize that maybe they were actually useful

[low chasm]

tfw I write out the argument essay irl

[young shoal]

argument 🤩 mapping 🤩

[quasi blaze]

All right. I have reevaluated your position and did some further research myself on this topic and I will say that I am wrong and admit defeat. I agree with you

I did commit the argument from fallacy fallacy

[crystal spruce]

out of curiosity keezy, how many fallacies do you know?

[low chasm]

oh you're a philosopher? name every fallacy

[quasi blaze]

I have an issue with validating people’s argument when it contains a fallacy

[young shoal]

you have confirmation bias. also the "I just learned it so I'm going to apply it everywhere" bias aka the "learned regex with regex crosswords so will use it for things that are impossible" bias

[quasi blaze]

I don’t know. I don’t keep count

[crystal spruce]

a rough estimate is fine

[young shoal]

also, still waiting for the python tidbit of the day

[quasi blaze]

Maybe 10-12?

How do people counter argue when they know their opponent’s argument contains a fallacy? I always conclude their arguments to be false because of their fallacy but then that in itself is a fallacy

[honest star]

You don't focus on the fallacy, but the argument itself. It doesn't actually matter if their argument contains a fallacy. What matters is their point, how they're supporting it, and how they're communicating it.

Fallacies can you help assess that, but the fallacy itself doesn't matter

[tardy rain]

People seriously do this?

[bleak lintel]

are we having another one of these conversations

[honest star]

it's like when people learn a functional language, they want to use it everywhere and for everything

[young shoal]

me

[tardy rain]

I will proudly say i dont know regex and have to figure it out all over again any time i need it

[low chasm]

average Haskell programmer

[young shoal]

why wouldn't you

[honest star]

everyday joe. everyday apparently

[young shoal]

it's everyday Joe

[bleak lintel]

new bot feature

filter_fallacies

[low chasm]

dude same

[young shoal]

skill issue

[tardy rain]

Theres better things worth knowing

[low chasm]

same with SQL actually, I never really know what I'm doing but it usually ends up working out, so it's probably fine

[honest star]

BUT in exciting Notion things, Notion charts beta is dropping

[low chasm]

based

[rain marsh]

thats cool and all, but offline mode?

[young shoal]

🧢

[low chasm]

like functional programming

[plucky ridge]

Lik graphs and stuff?

[honest star]

Notion does have sort-of-offline-mode-but-not-for-too-long

[plucky ridge]

Ooo pretty

[honest star]

I'm gonna be able to track my cats' weights so fucking easily now

[plucky ridge]

HA

Has that been an issue?

[rain marsh]

ooo nice

[honest star]

cc: @karmic gust

[rain marsh]

I'm trying to figure out the best way to have a habbit tracker

[young shoal]

so I can graph my rejections 📉

[rain marsh]

like currently I have a table with each entry as the day, and each habbit as a checkbox property

[honest star]

One cat loves to eat and will only stop when there ceases to be food in the bowl. The other loves to graze all day. It's been a challenge balancing both

But shoutout to the microchipped-activiated-feeder bowl so only one cat can get to that food

[low chasm]

I think there's dedicated apps for habit stuff as well, not sure how well notion would live up to the task for that

[tardy rain]

Have you tried spray bottle

[young shoal]

damn, neuralink when?

[rain marsh]

but but notion centralisation

[rain marsh]

doesn't work. tried it on my dog.

[honest star]

Same. I may start experimenting more heavily with buttons to trigger logging for habits and stuff. It's just missing a couple of critical UI stuff for proper habit tracking

[honest star]

my one cat is an idiot, and doesn't notice when she's being sprayed with water so..... yeah.

[low chasm]

lmao

[tardy rain]

Hm

[rain marsh]

same

[quasi blaze]

These conversations are training me to be a better debater

[honest star]

I love her, but like.... she's so dumb. She is also a bit inbred so that probably factors in a bit

[tardy rain]

She's just a baby

[honest star]

Just a 10 year old baby....

[low chasm]

she's older than my sister wtf

my sister is in between 9 and 11 I can't remember

[rain marsh]

I saw someone hook up an NFC sticker to ticking the habbit of. I think that would be so good.

[rain marsh]

And cheap too

[honest star]

I would rag on you for this, but I do struggle to remember how old I am sometimes. I have to literally do the math

[bleak lintel]

do you not have a local debating union or something

[low chasm]

lmfao

[honest star]

or even twitter, twitter works

[quasi blaze]

No. lol

[honest star]

people love to argue on twitter

[bleak lintel]

oh true

[low chasm]

spewing random controversial takes on twitter is probably fun

[bleak lintel]

keezy i'll pay for your blue check if you move the debating to twitter

[graceful basin]

I feel like twitter is going to be even less productive than here.

[young shoal]

at least it's not here

[low chasm]

what about the TikTok comment section

[quasi blaze]

Is it really that repulsive?

[low chasm]

I've seen the most shit stupid takes on the TikTok comment section

[quasi blaze]

These otn channels goes through a series of debates on different topics anyways. I don’t see what’s so repulsive on how to learn on how to construct better arguments

[low chasm]

I remember someone yapping about how CEOs shouldn't exist, and that there should be elections from and among the working employees instead. e.g people working at a McDonald's would vote amongst themselves to establish a new CEO

[lament cairn]

[young shoal]

because you seemingly aren't interested 🗿. you spent the previous discussion not reading someone's messages until instructed, and you asked other people to summarize for you 🗿

[low chasm]

I guess I get the sentiment but the whole thing was pretty flawed

[honest star]

Employee owned businesses do have some direct benefits, I think that's the kind of structure they're alluding to

[low chasm]

could be

[honest star]

Also what you described is just like... a company run entirely by a union

[young shoal]

like credit unions

[low chasm]

lmao

[young shoal]

sorta

[low chasm]

based, even

[rain marsh]

democracy 🫡

[quasi blaze]

I am really bad at being charitable to people when they have a fallacy in their argument. I am working on that

[young shoal]

sometimes

[young shoal]

still the wrong order. charitable first

[honest star]

Also, fucking love my union at work. Who knew a union made entirely of engineers and scientists would be very practical and advocate for sensical, data-driven solutions

[young shoal]

oh? how so

[honest star]

is that to me?

[young shoal]

ya. the usual argument is that they're not really necessary for swes since the individual negotiating power is decent, plus salaries are relatively high

though I know you're mostly not swe?

[honest star]

Our ability to argue for non-monetary benefits is very, very, very good. Much more than I could do individually because management is no longer able to do the "we'll approach this on a case-by-case basis" where people get wildly different and inconsistent results.

Thanks to our union, we have salary, bonuses, merit reviews, and salary increase data for everyone in the union. So we get to analyze it to see where we fall. We would not have that data available to us without the union.

For instance, thanks to that data I know I'm paid squarely in the median of the range and that my raise was decent compared to others in similar positions

[young shoal]

but you could individually collect that without, right? it's protected. but I guess it makes it easier practically since you have a bigger pool of legal funds

[honest star]

*also the data is for everyone who *could* join the union, like everyone in that position regardless if they actually pay dues

[honest star]

You can see the giant discrepency in effort though. Trying to individually collect a few thousand entries is very, very hard

[young shoal]

yeah true. any effort would need to be a makeshift union ish thing

[honest star]

also my union made sure to guarantee parental leave and the company has to honor all WFH agreements previously made during COVID. That shit's in our contract now which is amazing

[uneven pine]

Well yeah. It's an app for children, and that's 90% of the user base. That and adults with severe trauma/disorders/etc

I've literally watched people I know how from mostly normal, well functioning people to not being able to look away from their phone for more than a minute after getting addicted to that crApp

[young shoal]

I know someone that was remote before COVID and the company tried to include them in RTO 😒

[honest star]

looool, fuck that noise

My company is trying to do some RTO bullshit they're calling "The Future of Work 2.0" and the way I'm keeping my resume up to date if they try to pull any bullshit....

[tardy rain]

Based

My place tried the same trick, didnt work

Management stopped mentioning it

[low chasm]

it's a similar issue with most other short form content social media apps

at the very least, there's enough decent content that it's not completely terrible

[honest star]

It's so telling though that their reasoning for RTO is "intangible benefits, company culture, 'best collaboration happens in the hallways'" because otherwise every single scientist and engineer would pull up the multitude of studies saying hybrid and remote work is strictly a productivity increase

[rain marsh]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTNDkUo-EO8

@honest star this looks awesome

[honest star]

.bm

[honest star]

do you use Notion a lot?

[rain marsh]

yes

Services, Apps & Lab -> Management for my homelab, subscriptions I pay for, and other software/services I use

[young shoal]

achievements 👀

[karmic gust]

i've outgrown charts

[rain marsh]

to remind me to be grateful/happy for what I've achieved

[visual nexus]

hi noobs im a python pro 😎

[young shoal]

source?

[visual nexus]

ermmm

[honest star]

So I'm the Notion Champion for the groups I belong to, meaning I can get access to beta features and ask them to be turned on for specific workspaces I'm part of. Do you want me to ask to turn on the charts beta for the Python Discord workspace so you can experiment with it?

[solemn tulip]

for me personally being in the office and being able to just randomly chat with teammates spontaneously about work or otherwise has so many benefits

[visual nexus]

i didnt ask 🗣️

[karmic gust]

data was meant to be boring, they've played us for fools etc

[young shoal]

I asked

[visual nexus]

all of u guys are from ohio what the sigma

[visual nexus]

ok bud

[honest star]

zoomer insults 💤

[young shoal]

skill issue

[karmic gust]

@visual nexus stop trolling, have a normal conversation if you want

[solemn tulip]

(also I could not focus and get things done with constant wfh)

[visual nexus]

srry

[rain marsh]

Oooo sure! Would love that - @ me on the page, I'll dm you my user if needed?

[honest star]

Yeah, I don't really get those benefits from being in person tbh. I definitely get that some people do, but boy howdy I am not one of them

[honest star]

I'll submit and it should be turned on on June 17th

[karmic gust]

!rule 6 @errant pecan

[royal lake]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

[solemn tulip]

one thing that was super noticable was the small but very impactful hurdle of setting up a chat or video call vs just walking over and chatting about some work piece with a colleague

[tardy rain]

wdym hurdle

people randomly call me all the time

[solemn tulip]

so important discussions that solved random product problems kinda didn't happen, or happened way too late

[honest star]

Interesting, because for me a video call is better because of how often we need to screen share and review documents. Everyone needs to bring their laptop anyway and make sure we're all looking at the same document.

But also the team I'm on is geographically split anyway. A few of us on the east coast, the other half on the west coast

[solemn tulip]

when I sit next to my colleagues just asking "hey, do you happen to know X?" is way less friction than starting some chat/video call

[karmic gust]

are you a software engineer?

[solemn tulip]

yes

[honest star]

The barrier for a teams call is super low where I work, but that could also be a company culture specific thing

[solemn tulip]

would you video call 1:1 for something like "hey, do you happen to know X part of the codebase?"

[honest star]

also someone in my department did a reply-all by accident and now everyone else is reply-all-ing for the meme 😩

[honest star]

not video, but a voice team call or just a teams message, yeah

[solemn tulip]

it's the thing of "this is just too small, I'll just figure it out myself"

[honest star]

it's actually still taking time for me to adjust because of how trigger happy people are about hopping on calls

[karmic gust]

DM
"hey do you know about X and why it's like Y?"
"yeah, I can show you real quick"
and then 10 minute screenshare

[young shoal]

my office has these nice meeting rooms that let you teams the TV in it and share screen easily

[tardy rain]

oh god no

[honest star]

the bane of my fucking existance rn I swear

[karmic gust]

i mean its good when thats what you need

[honest star]

I have one coworkers who does this except the screenshare turns into 45 minutes or more

[rain marsh]

@honest star Is it possible to have a splitview on notion beteween two tabs btw?

[tardy rain]

it never is what you need

[karmic gust]

its a problem when it could be text, but it's a capable replacement for in-person conversations

[honest star]

I don't think so, but I can submit that for feedback

[solemn tulip]

we have fancy rooms like it, but the remote teams we work with still always feel way more separate than the team sitting on the same floor

[young shoal]

yeah

[rain marsh]

Yes please - currently I use the web+desktop version to achieve this

[honest star]

you can split out tabs to new windows and then use desktop tiling or whatever to do that

[solemn tulip]

oh, the general proliferation of knowledge is another thing that has been nice working in the same room

[honest star]

but that's not as nice as native split view

[solemn tulip]

you have a good sense of what others do, you overhear relevant chatter that would previously have been in an 1:1 chat and never shared widely, etc

[rain marsh]

I can't seem to do that 🤔

Just slides along the top

[honest star]

if you right click the tab, does this show up?

[rain marsh]

Alos, discord, what were you thinking with this?

[rain marsh]

Oooh, no - this is perfect! Thanks!

[honest star]

I'm part of several many workspaces, so I use this to keep the different workspaces in their own little containers

[solemn tulip]

(the ability to rant about shit going on at work with colleagues is also a nice bonus)

(you wouldn't set a video call up for the sake of ranting, or would you?)

that would be fun though

[honest star]

I do miss that a bit ngl.
I met up for dinner with coworkers from my previous job and oh man, it was fun catching up on drama and re-hasing/re-ranting about stuff

[solemn tulip]

1:1 ranting session

sometimes it's even actively productive

[tardy rain]

we do that instead of standup

[solemn tulip]

like, someone rants about some process being annoying, someone else chimes in about some better way of doing it

[solemn tulip]

smackdown

[tardy rain]

i hate it when people rant about stuff at work

especially people with the power and influence to make things better

I can rant

dudes with senior in their titles dont get to rant

[solemn tulip]

in this case it's mostly engineers ranting to other engineers

[honest star]

you only get to rant if there is something/someone actively stopping you from doing the thing, yeah

[young shoal]

"why don't you just fix it"
"no, only rant"

[honest star]

you can also rant while doing the thing, that's allowed too

[solemn tulip]

"yeah I'll do it, but I'll complain the whole time"

[young shoal]

I think kant wrote about this

[solemn tulip]

we do have a particular deserved target for our rants nowadays...something something 8k lines of messy and not infrequently broken C++ code in a single utils file

with a 25k line file of tests

[tardy rain]

is this code that handles peoples money

[solemn tulip]

they rewrote the framework and made it worse

[solemn tulip]

it does not

[quasi blaze]

My buddy told me that he went to his boss’ house for BBQ. That’s a recipe for disaster; I would never go to my manager’s house for food because it’s a conflict of interest. It’s better to keep your work life and personal life completely separate which is I find eating with your boss during off-hours completely unadvisable

[tardy rain]

Do the wordle keezy

[honest star]

lol I'm actually going to my boss's boss's place next week for a team building thing. It'll be fun

[tardy rain]

For bbq tho?

[honest star]

I think yes, actually

[young shoal]

what's the thing though

[tardy rain]

Team trust falls

[honest star]

invite is vague, just dinner and games

[granite tree]

Prediction: In 3 years, Buddy will be Boss.

[honest star]

and then 2 days later we have an evening beach thing with the whole team. That'll be good too

[tardy rain]

Its all fun and games until you show up and everyone's picky in their own annoying little way

[honest star]

But also "conflict of interest" means there are different interests and they may potentially be conflicting/at odds. Everyone's interest at a team thing like that is to just have a good time and make chit chat.

[granite tree]

I will say: avoid alcohol at these events. Light beer, at most.

[karmic gust]

find out which games, grind, assert dominance by winning every game and then demand a raise

[tardy rain]

Avoiding alcohol with brits in the team?

Good luck

[honest star]

it's gonna be the ... I'm forgetting the name but you have bean bags and boards and you have to throw the bean bags across some distance at the boards

[solemn tulip]

we even have alcohol at work at times, but there are also strict rules about being heavily drunk at work

[solemn tulip]

cornhole?

[honest star]

yes!

I'm so bad at cornhole though

[solemn tulip]

(not a euphemism)

[honest star]

no amount of grinding will make me good at cornhole

[granite tree]

the good thing is the brits will drink enough for both of us

[karmic gust]

tough result, high skill game, genetic height advantage

[honest star]

being short is not that much of a factor!

[solemn tulip]

that just sounds so wrong

[quasi blaze]

#career-advice message

(Coming back to this thread that took place a year ago in #career-advice )

Now that I have experienced corporate parties, It is now fair for me say that corporate social event aren’t for me.

[granite tree]

totally fine, but it's a bit unfair to say it's a conflcit of interest. Just: "I don't like it" is totally fair.

but you were judging your colleague for attending.

[solemn tulip]

but but...my rationalizing

[quasi blaze]

It’s a conflict of interest because you shouldn’t mix an off-hours party with people who you work with on hours

[granite tree]

That's an irrational statement: it's an X because Y (which has nothing to do with X?)

[karmic gust]

what are the interests that are in conflict?

[minor tundra]

That's certainly a way to view it, but that's not the only valid way to consider events, and reducing the value many people get from many different forms of interaction is dismissive

[chilly mulch]

Felt like this channel was the appropriate place to post

What a way to kick off a shift

[quasi blaze]

If you are partying with co-workers, then you have to maintain some level of social etiquette. That’s what’s conflicting

[honest star]

what is that conflicting with?

[quasi blaze]

I wouldn’t need to do that if I partying with childhood friends for instance

[granite tree]

Oh, the drain line is prob just clogged.

[minor tundra]

Social events are fantastic and helping build empathy between coworkers who don't get to see either in any other setting. It helps see the human behind the memos and helps understand that some things that may seem grating in the office aren't meant in ill will, but just a human being a human and not being a perfect cog in a machine

[honest star]

Different groups of people require you to have different levels of social etiquette, yes

[quasi blaze]

It would be unacceptable to get black out drunk at a party with co-workers

[honest star]

but how is that a conflict? what is that conflicting with?

[granite tree]

ACs have a condensation drain line that runs outside (often to a gutter or something). Could be clogged inside or outside.

[honest star]

... who said anything about getting black out drunk?

[chilly mulch]

Yeah, I'm just waiting on the AC guys to come over

It's happened before with this unit

[tardy rain]

Have a few brewskis with the boys from QA and such

[honest star]

going to a bbq hosted by your boss does not imply getting blackout drunk...

[granite tree]

What if he's really good at BBQ?

Can I go?

[minor tundra]

This is a standard contextual difference, and is widely accepted and not a flaw in the idea of going to a BBQ

[quasi blaze]

Some group of people will that tolerable

[tardy rain]

He better be

[honest star]

that's not a sentence that makes sense. The question is:
what interests are in conflict if you were to attend an off-hours work social event?

[quasi blaze]

Black out drunk is just an example to prove that there’s a threshold between partying with co-workers vs partying with childhood friends.

That’s the conflict of interest

[tardy rain]

You shouldn't be getting black out drunk anywhere and with anyone

[quasi blaze]

There’s many more examples

[honest star]

No one is saying otherwise. How is that a conflict though? That there are different social standards with different groups of people?

[karmic gust]

a "conflict of interest" is when you have some duty to others in conflict with some personal benefit

[minor tundra]

That isn't what conflict of interest means. At best you've justified the existence of boundaries, which is not in question with the notion of a office BBQ

[granite tree]

That, my friend, is a classic logical fallacy argument.

[tardy rain]

Ah yes a false dichotomy

[acoustic moss]

strawman even

[tardy rain]

Bonus for combining the two

[granite tree]

I wasn't sure if it's a slippery slope?

maybe a trifecta

[honest star]

Even in personal social settings, if I'm attending a formal black tie wedding with my childhood friends, it would still be inappropriate for me to get blackout drunk. There isn't a conlict of interest there though.

[karmic gust]

in vino falsus

[quasi blaze]

There’s many more examples I could give but they are not appropriate for the server

[tardy rain]

Lmao

What do you do in your free time keezy

Are we getting freaky here

[honest star]

What you are saying isn't a conflict of interest though. It's just showcasing that there are boundaries and different situations require different social etiquette

which no one is disagreeing with

[granite tree]

fwiw, I've actually never had my current batch of co-workers at my house, people I've worked with for over 10 years. And I'm damn good at bbq. But, I've brought my bbq and beers to the office.

[honest star]

Just because you can't/shouldn't get blackout drunk at your boss's bbq doesn't mean it's a conflict of interest

[quasi blaze]

Maybe conflict of interest was the incorrect term

[acoustic moss]

what if im interested in getting blackout drunk

[tardy rain]

You cant get blackout drunk in many more social situations, does that mean you never go out keezy?

[minor tundra]

Ah the classic "bad decision", the "Oh no" The "Whoopsie without the daysie"

[tardy rain]

Is it either smashing beer cans or nothing

[solemn tulip]

I mean, you can

[quasi blaze]

I go out. Yes

[granite tree]

Can we change the topic to: What is the ideal social / team building activity?

[honest star]

If you're willing to square up with the consequences, go nuts =P

[tardy rain]

You'd get many tsks thrown at you

[solemn tulip]

escape room style stuff for a smaller group is great

[tardy rain]

Spending a sprint abroad fixing tech debt

[quasi blaze]

It’s clearly better to go out with childhood friends than co-workers during off hours

[honest star]

I'd say a lunch/dinner at a public place probably. Like a park is good, or an average restaurant

[rain marsh]

but so expensive ☹️

[quasi blaze]

I dislike having to maintain a level of professionalism when I am out with co-workers

[acoustic moss]

uno

[dapper dew]

Paintball
Gentle Hiking
Lunch and Beers

[acoustic moss]

me when i stack three +4s on my boss

[solemn tulip]

food is always acceptable and welcome

[tardy rain]

I spent a week in undisclosed european country with half the team

Apart from people being slightly insufferable it was fine

[solemn tulip]

I spend many weeks in a disclosed european country with most of my team :^)

I'll...skip that drink

[tardy rain]

How was it

My people annoyed me with their food choices

[solemn tulip]

is

[tardy rain]

🗿

[solemn tulip]

the dumb joke is that it's just work as usual in the usual location

[tardy rain]

We went to incredibly famous 4 letter lake in european country renowned for great cuisine

And they had to be picky with food

[solemn tulip]

como?

[tardy rain]

We crushed work that week tho so its all forgiven

[tardy rain]

Yea

I think i'll go again if they pick a different country

[solemn tulip]

maybe I should visit como at some point

[tardy rain]

Its so nice

You'll need a car tho definitely

And dont book stuff right on the lake, its not worth the money

Theyre really big on seafood in that region

[solemn tulip]

😭

it's like a 5 hour train ride from here, surely I can get around without a car 😐

[tardy rain]

You dont drive?

Rent a car from there

Its a pretty big lake and hot spots are spaced around it

You cant walk it and public transport doesnt exist

[solemn tulip]

I guess I could go to lugano to get an italian experience without italy :^)

[tardy rain]

You wanna hit up como, lecco, bellagio

Suggest a team trip and have others drive you guys

And make sure to expense it 💀

[grave cove]

dude so real

[solemn tulip]

actually lake lugano is only like 20km from lake como

[tardy rain]

Probably the same experience

Water was fucking freezing

Middle of july

[solemn tulip]

but probably much more expensive in lugano

[tardy rain]

Darn alpine lakes

[solemn tulip]

because 🇨🇭

[tardy rain]

Why is there a chunk of italy in switzerland 🤨

[marble bay]

I raise you uno

[tardy rain]

Whats this Campione d'italia

[marble bay]

Apart from the embassy?

[solemn tulip]

let me link you to a recent video...

[tardy rain]

Its an enclave

Right by the lake

[solemn tulip]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1fqinoNiZE

[tardy rain]

Or exclave?

[solemn tulip]

from a week ago

[tardy rain]

Is that a thing

Lmao

[solemn tulip]

both I think

exclave - territory separated from the main territory
enclave - territory completely contained in another territory

[karmic gust]

clave, e[nx] or otherwise

[tardy rain]

Some people really got a lot of free time on their hands to be drawing weird ass borders like this one

[solemn tulip]

actually it might be a bit more than that

this is Italy's exclave, and an enclave of Switzerland

[pliant nexus]

no way i got accidentaly got segmantation faulted in python

jeebak@jeebak:~/Dev/Python/Peelpreter/src$ python3 -m peelpreter ~/Dev/Python/Peelpreter/examples/sum.mon
Segmentation fault (core dumped)

💀

[young shoal]

post snow dragon 👀

[quasi blaze]

We can all unanimously agree that partying with your childhood friends > partying with co-workers. Yes?

[tardy rain]

Maybe, what if people dont have childhood friends

[fringe rain]

Dunno, I might be closer with my co workers

[quasi blaze]

We can all unanimously agree that partying with your non co-workers > partying with co-workers. Yes?

[fringe rain]

I dont think that's going to be unanimous agreement

[tardy rain]

I agree, idk if its a universal sentiment

[fringe rain]

For a lot of people their coworkers are their closest friends

[young shoal]

it's not comparable

[tardy rain]

What if a childhood friend is a coworker

[young shoal]

they have different objectives

[tardy rain]

Insisting on these topics sounds like you need external validation keezy

Just dont go to work events, its not that deep

[quasi blaze]

What made you come up with that conclusion?

[tardy rain]

Dont socialize with coworkers

[tardy rain]

Your insistence on getting people to agree with you

[fringe rain]

Why do you discuss this here

[quasi blaze]

Because this is a server of tech professionals

[tardy rain]

You dont want to befriend your coworkers, then dont

[fringe rain]

I mean that's fair, but you're always trying to be agreed with on matters of co-workers

Some would call that a validation request

[tardy rain]

I sure would

[quasi blaze]

I don’t think my perspective is fully understood on why it’s not the best idea to party with co-workers

[tardy rain]

It doesnt matter

Are you trying to convince people here?

[fringe rain]

Are you trying to give advice on why people shouldn't part with co-workers

[tardy rain]

Our choices dont affect your life

Its entirely a personal choice

[young shoal]

probably because you used "conflict of interest"

[quasi blaze]

That was my mistake

[quasi blaze]

I was trying to fully construct my argument on why I don’t like to party with co-workers and I did it poorly earlier today

[fringe rain]

What was the reason

[quasi blaze]

1. You have to maintain a level of professionalism which you don’t need to when you are partying with non-workers. You still have to represent your company in a way when you’re with your co-workers especially when you are at public event.

2. When you at a party event with non-coworkers, you don’t have to maintain a persona as you would when you’re partying with co-workers. You can totally be yourself.

[fringe rain]

See its not like im employed

But for some reason I dont feel like you've been either 😭

You're talking like they're some unsavoury human beings you never want to be with outside of work

[tardy rain]

Some people dont mind keeping up a level of professionalism if it means they get to network and further their careers

[fringe rain]

How does one maintain professionalism when they're batshit drunk

[tardy rain]

If you think this crosses a boundary then dont do it, its not mandatory

Theres no reason to keep arguing this point

[quasi blaze]

That’s why you don’t get drunk

[fringe rain]

I mean I empathize with your views

I just dont get why you feel like sparking discussions about them here

[tardy rain]

Its fine to share your views, respectfully ofcourse

But at some point you have to understand that others will do as they like and move on

[warped sentinel]

it's like you are drunk, but professional

[quasi blaze]

This community has a great amount people who have careers and careers are talked about often here. That’s why I bring it up

[fringe rain]

Hmm alr then ig

[tardy rain]

You get the same answers every time

.wa short define insanity

[median dome]

Wolfram Alpha

relatively permanent disorder of the mind

[tardy rain]

Not quite

[rain marsh]

.wa insanity quote

[median dome]

Wolfram Alpha

View original for a bigger picture.

[rain marsh]

lmfao

[tardy rain]

Did I ever tell you what the definition of insanity is? Insanity is doing the exact... same fucking thing... over and over again expecting... shit to change... That. Is. Crazy.

[granite tree]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JkIs37a2JE

[granite tree]

I've known some sales people like this.

[tardy rain]

Tbh i wouldnt wanna hangout with sales people

Not unless someones paying me

[granite tree]

Oh, they're fun. They're paid to be.

[tardy rain]

Theyre too high energy

And its weird energy ime

I had to share office space with a bunch of them at a fintech startup

They wouldnt shut up for a second

For some reason a fairly large % of them were languages or history grads

[granite tree]

Yah, I know the type

But, there are different types

[tardy rain]

The yapper type is terrible

Why cant they just switch off

We all do some amount of masking

[deft mica]

What even is this channel title?

[tardy rain]

Its mine

[deft mica]

Water is wet

Water is not wet

Disprove any

[tardy rain]

Well

You can see that the expression is a binary or operation

And we know how theyre evaluated

If "is water wet" is true then you get the answer to your question

If its not true, we get the second operand, which is "i dont care to elaborate"

[granite tree]

To misquote tmbg (for second time in a week): When you get in water, do you get wet, or does the water get you instead?

[solemn tulip]

fun question, if everyone on earth had a 1GB flash drive, could a 64 bit integer index all the bytes of those drives?

[solemn tulip]

||yes, but only barely||

[deft mica]

Uhhh wouldnt there be like 1/9 of the spaces left or something?

[solemn tulip]

!e print(2**64/(8.1e9 * 1e9))

[royal lake]

:white_check_mark: Your 3.12 eval job has completed with return code 0.

2.2773758115690805

[solemn tulip]

if we did GiB it would be within a factor of 2

!e print(2**64/(8.1e9 * 2**30))

[royal lake]

:white_check_mark: Your 3.12 eval job has completed with return code 0.

2.1209715041975308

[solemn tulip]

err

not quite

but close

my mental math was a bit off

[deft mica]

Ehh I was also off

[young shoal]

2^30 * 2^30 * 2^3, assuming 8 billion people

[median dome]

**What animals do you like?**

Suggest more topics here!

[solemn tulip]

1GB/capita * 8Gicapita

fixed it

[young shoal]

it's pretty close

but 2**30 is an overestimate, so probably yes

[solemn tulip]

is it?

[granite tree]

Well, you didn't say uniquely. So yes.

[fringe rain]

Lion

[solemn tulip]

would you have preferred the more pedantic "enumerate"?

[granite tree]

No, I hate these questions. Same vein as the throwing a brick overboard interview question.

[wicked haven]

I read that as lithium ion...

[solemn tulip]

it's more of a "huh, these numbers are basically the same"

[young shoal]

estimation is important

but also, everyone knows that you should use a signed int for indexing. so maybe it wouldn't fit

[granite tree]

something something python ints are infinite.

[granite tree]

We don't allow advertisements on this server

[tall crypt]

how safe can AI get ? HOW SAFE IS THAT

yes... VERY safe.. i see

[lost skiff]

how to enable "open in terminal" option when right clicking in windows 10 file explorer?

[proven ermine]

Shift right click and you can get 'Open Powershell window here'

[lost skiff]

oo that's nice

is there anyway to open cmd instead of powershell?

or windows terminal app

[proven ermine]

no idea

if you have windows terminal installed i think it should be there

[lost skiff]

it's not there but in settings you can make it a default terminal app so when i shift click and press open with powershell it now opens powershell in windows terminal

not exactly what I wanted but I guess that works

[fresh basalt]

You may have to edit the registry.

[glossy niche]

on win 10 and 11 and probably earlier, you can just type CMD in that thingie where it shows you the path and it will open CMD there

use CTRL+L as a short cut

[sacred cove]

[quasi blaze]

How many days before a vacation trip should one start packing their luggage?

[rain marsh]

It depends on how long the vacation is

Usually it's the day before (for our short one week holidays)

But for longer ones, probs a couple days before instead

[honest star]

I'm always a <12hour packer

[tardy rain]

i pack the night before

my gf packs like half an hour before we leave

[honest star]

Sometimes it'll literally be 2 hours before the flight leaves

[tardy rain]

madness

[honest star]

I have a packing checklist, I have TSA precheck, EZ

[tardy rain]

im better with freaking out nowadays

but it sure was hard getting here

[quasi blaze]

Interesting answers

[young shoal]

the 10 minute version of all too well is too long

[honest star]

lol I travel too frequently for 2 weeks to be reasonable. "Hey, while you're actively traveling, start packing for your next one"

[honest star]

should ban you for this tbh

[thick osprey]

This is the nail in psvm's chat history coffin?

[young shoal]

:sip:

[thick osprey]

Oh, this reminds me. I was productive at work today. Added five new sip emotes to our new slack workspaces.

[young shoal]

i was reading through the team member onboarding at work and there's just a massive in one of the sections

[honest star]

lol I wonder if that's to check if people actually read it

[young shoal]

it was talking about slack etiquette

[honest star]

people in my non-profit's slack have no idea what the shipit squirrel means. They just think its cute and use it in completely random and bonkers ways

"Couldn't do this without y'all! "

[young shoal]

wait kat i need to tell you about my gre experience

[soft violet]

I feel as though it would pair well with a switchblade or tommy gun.

"Gimme all your nuts!"

[young shoal]

i took about half the test until a technical issue paused and closed it. i then waited 2 hours with while the test coordinator talked to tech support until i was told to just reschedule

[quasi blaze]

What do you mean

[young shoal]

yk the 10 minute version? it's too long

[honest star]

oof

[quasi blaze]

No I don’t

[young shoal]

um, educate yourself 💅 😌

oh also when i called them they said i needed to send an email. which i'm now writing

[quasi blaze]

Why are you not able to elaborate when I ask for an elaboration?

[young shoal]

your characterization is founded on an inaccuracy

[honest star]

Taylor Swift's song: All Too Well (10 Minute Version) (Taylor's Version)

psvm has the objectively incorrect opinion that it's too long

[young shoal]

(a fallacy, one could say)

[grave cove]

of the logical kind?

[honest star]

It's time for a White Lady Email ™️
... I need to watch more Dropout

[young shoal]

what does that mean

[quasi blaze]

Fallacy? I asked for an elaboration

[honest star]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYQdvQs9zqI

It's a cute little comedy series entirely about unhinged comedy people given unhinged presentations

[young shoal]

😩

[young shoal]

your characterization of my condition is founded on an inaccuracy

[quasi blaze]

What characterization?

[young shoal]

😔 if you need me to summarize your own statements this is never going to get anywhere

[young shoal]

they definitely don't have the power to get what i want 🙄. but there's no other contact

[quasi blaze]

You keep committing this burden of proof fallacy

[young shoal]

nah

[honest star]

so there's an addendum that in the process of getting to the final White Lady Email, you may have to email people so they can escalate you. You just want to make sure you're friendly and polite for all of those middle people

[vale raven]

Why does everything have to be a fallacy?

[young shoal]

also, they say "7-10 business days" for a reply, and there's no tests in the next 15 days because they're all full, so i'm looking at a whole month before another test date

[young shoal]

social engineering privesc 📈

[honest star]

yay more review time? That's a pain though

[young shoal]

i don't want more review time 😭 i want to be done

it's conflicting with my other summer plans now

[quasi blaze]

You need to ask the folks who keep committing it. Psvm does this thing where he makes a claim and then others (like myself) would ask for answers that support his claim and then he doesn’t. He instead asks for that person to find that information themselves. That’s a burden of proof fallacy

[young shoal]

it's not a fallacy, it's called the, "it's funny if i say this" argument

[vale raven]

I generally call that being a dickhead, but to each their own I guess

[young shoal]

skill issue

[quasi blaze]

Thanks for being empathetic towards my point of view

[grave cove]

didn't we talk about this the other day. not everything is reducable to logic, and making everything to be a logical fallacy does not necessarily make for good conversations

[young shoal]

true

[honest star]

People aren't obligated to argue with you. You can't give people homework just because they say things

Sometimes people just say shit and you have to make peace with it

[grave cove]

just be human tbh. we're not machines

[vale raven]

Disagreeing with Pub doesn't mean I agree with you

[vale raven]

Maybe YOU aren't

I am one with the Matrix

[quasi blaze]

Robin. Please at minimum be charitable to at least address my criticism towards psvm.

[young shoal]

sez u

[honest star]

For instance, I know pub is objectively wrong that All Too Well (10 Minute Version) (Taylor's Version) is too long. But I'm not going to force him to argue about it.

a) that's arguing about dumb shit that doesn't matter
b) I already know he's wrong. what's the point?

[grave cove]

based

[young shoal]

what if i told you that listening to forever winter 3 times is objectively better than the 10 minute version of all too well

[vale raven]

Only 10 minutes??
That's way too short, did you misclick while looking for the 10 hour version?

[honest star]

I think all I've learned from your TSwizzle opinions is that you need to go through a devasting breakup that leaves you filled with anger and almost-regret

until then, some of your opinions are just bad

[young shoal]

sez u

[vale raven]

almost regret?

[honest star]

yeah, it's very critical that it's not actually regret

But like... almost

[quasi blaze]

Yes. You are correct. I will grant this but at least acknowledge how frustrating it is when X asks for answers on Y’s claim and then Y responds with “find the answer yourself”

[vale raven]

I think I'm currently at that stage
But I have some actual regret

[young shoal]

it must be a canon event

[honest star]

omg, my biggest pet peeve recently is people saying "cannon event"

[vale raven]

WTF is that even supposed to mean?

[thick osprey]

Is this your cannon event unfolding?

[low chasm]

that's a cannon event /ong

[young shoal]

it's the part of the show where they launch a person out of a canon

[thick osprey]

fr

[grave cove]

sure, i can understand how that might be frustrating. unfortunately this is the internet and such things are very common sooo

[honest star]

They mean "canon event" but all I can think of is Tchaikovsky aggressively agreeing that overtures should have cannon events

[vale raven]

It's extremely frustrating. That's why RTFM and LMGTFY are banned here.

[thick osprey]

Though if you just check the documentation, there are plenty of examples in them.

[vale raven]

You guys know what else is extremely frustrating? Having a row of red squiggles on literally every single message I type
Spelling is so hard 😭

[young shoal]

consider: a math teacher is teaching real analysis. do they spend time explaining basic arithmetic to a student that asks?

[quasi blaze]

At least be charitable enough to admit that I pointed out a fallacy in your line of reasoning when you tell people to find information themselves when they ask you for more information about your claims

[grave cove]

discords spell checker is straight ass

[honest star]

At some point, if you find interacting with a person is frustrating ... don't interact with them

[vale raven]

What do you do when they chase you down?

[grave cove]

its blockin time

[honest star]

be weirder than they're willing to tolerate

[quasi blaze]

So what’s wrong with me pointing out the flaws in their lines of reasoning?

[fresh basalt]

It depends.

[honest star]

best defense is the weirdest offense

[fresh basalt]

Chase you down how?

Physically?

[low chasm]

~~ @grave cove I guess this is goodbye~~

[quasi blaze]

Idk those guys

[vale raven]

I uh... don't wanna get banned

[vale raven]

"read the fucking manual" and "let me google that for you"

[fresh basalt]

Are you talking about PyDis?

[grave cove]

nothing, never said it was

though the other party does not have to oblige

[fresh basalt]

Is someone bothering you shen? Want me to beat 'em up?

👊

[honest star]

If you're going to grumble and be annoyed at psvm not engaging with your arguments, I recommend not "pointing out flaws in their reasoning" and making it an argument/thing in the first place

[grave cove]

but also imo reducing everything down to logic and debate and logical fallacies is not a fun way to go about human interaction tbh

[fresh basalt]

Wait, is it Keezy o'clock?

[young shoal]

you say this, but you won't consider the scenario i've proposed

[quasi blaze]

Very unfair of you to completely dismiss my legitimate criticisms of psvm and then criticize me for pointing that out. I sense some bias from you.

[honest star]

... huh? I am literally saying it's better to not waste your time and energy with a person who won't engage with you

[fresh basalt]

Is Keezy short for Kmart Yeezy?

[honest star]

"Hey, you are consistently frustrated with your interactions with this person. Consider not interacting with them"

[vale raven]

Discord in general
These guys ping me every five minutes to ask me for updates on my resume
I say "hey I'm taking a break [from job searching] this week because I'm having a really hard time with [emotional event]"
And I get back "you not having applied for any jobs this week tells me everything I need to know about how you don't care about this"
Like, I explicitly said...
And then 5 minutes later they "chase me down" with "@vale raven apply for jobs when???"

[grave cove]

when new jerb?

[vale raven]

Yeah, would you be so kind?

[quasi blaze]

But you didn’t even address my criticism towards psvm

[fresh basalt]

Block them.

[young shoal]

but you didn't even address my response to your criticism 😦

[honest star]

I don't have to

[vale raven]

https://tenor.com/view/oxgifs-oxbox-oxtra-outsidexbox-outsidextra-gif-23281792

[fresh basalt]

They're not worth your time.

[honest star]

What about your criticism do I need to address? You've said your piece

Now I'm commenting on the whole situation

[quasi blaze]

Sorry. This chat moved fast can you link me?

[vale raven]

agree

less go

[young shoal]

#ot1-perplexing-regexing message

[quasi blaze]

Is it valid or invalid?

[honest star]

I genuinely don't have an opinion and I don't care

But I have had to see you be frustrated interacting with psvm like everyday this week. At some point, consider not interacting with him

[quasi blaze]

I don’t know. I don’t understand this scenario

[fresh basalt]

https://tenor.com/view/friendship-over-friendship-himym-how-i-met-your-mother-fo-gif-5654482

[young shoal]

why not?

[quasi blaze]

“Real analysis” needs to be defined

[young shoal]

hm

have you heard of calculus?

[quasi blaze]

Yes. I have heard of it

[young shoal]

ok, say you are a calculus professor

you're not going to say it? 😔

[quasi blaze]

You didn’t add any quotations before and after “you are a calculus professor”

[young shoal]

anyways

say that today's lecture is on...green's theorem. a student asks you about how to add two integers. do you spend valuable class time teaching them? or do you just move on, because you have more important things to teach

[quasi blaze]

You teach them

[grave cove]

but if you're on discord you don't have more important things to do 🗿

[young shoal]

why? each minute of class time is valuable. you can't squander it on trivialities

in a calculus course, you can presume fundamental knowledge

[grave cove]

real (analysis)

[quasi blaze]

How does this scenario equate to me asking you to provide supporting statements behind your claim?

[young shoal]

the calculus professor doesn't teach students basic arithmetic, they teach calculus

[quasi blaze]

What you’re doing right now is “red herring”

[young shoal]

it's called an analogy

[quasi blaze]

Please concede this debate

[young shoal]

please follow along with the analogy

[quasi blaze]

I did

You said “the calculus professor doesn't teach students basic arithmetic, they teach calculus”

That was your conclusion of your analogy

[young shoal]

so you can see how this is analogous to the current situation

[quasi blaze]

Was it not?

[quasi blaze]

Nope

[vale raven]

You're telling someone to tell you that you won?

What if they want to think that they won?

[young shoal]

clearly, when the professor is talking about the length of all too well (10 minute version) (taylor's version) (from the vault), it is assumed that the students know what all too well (10 minute version) (taylor's version) (from the vault) is to begin with. it's fundamental knowledge

[fresh basalt]

I had a calculus professor who assigned us work from the textbook in class then sat in the front of the room reading AMS journals.

[quasi blaze]

He’s proposing an analogy that has nothing to do with me asking him for supporting statements behind his claim

[fresh basalt]

One day I asked what he was reading and he was all "you wouldn't find it interesting".

snob

[young shoal]

when the calc prof says, "integration is like adding up a bunch of small slices of the area", it is assumed the students know what addition is

[signal canopy]

all this yap

[fresh basalt]

This is a weird way of flirting.

[young shoal]

your mom

[signal canopy]

now that’s an assumption

[vale raven]

On the first day of school my Microsoft certs teacher said "It's all explained in your textbooks, I will not be helping you", then proceeded to sit down at their desk and pull up their Facebook and start scrolling.
I started helping the other students, and I ended up spending so much time teaching that I didn't have time to complete my own assignments.
My teacher just gave my free hundreds, but my type-A pride was wounded about just ignoring my own assignments.

[quasi blaze]

He made the claim that “your characterization of my condition is founded on an inaccuracy” I asked for his supporting statements and didn’t give me them

[young shoal]

bro would put on a child's mask before his own

[vale raven]

.... IDEK what that's supposed to mean.

[young shoal]

yk on a plane they say something along the lines of "put your own mask on before helping others"

[signal canopy]

glad i’m not the only one

idk i would do that too

it’s a child

[fresh basalt]

no, you put on your own mask first

Just do it quickly.

[young shoal]

you said

Why are you not able to elaborate when I ask for an elaboration?
but i am able. that is a mischaracterization

[fresh basalt]

Then you can help other people.

[signal canopy]

oh like that

[young shoal]

you would die

[signal canopy]

yea i’m no good dead nvm

[fresh basalt]

That's why when you lifeguard you put the victim between you and the pier

because if you get fucked up you're both dead

[quasi blaze]

Okay. That was my fault. It was a loaded question if you literally interpreted my question with the exact verbatim. I should have rephrased “Why won’t you elaborate when I ask for an elaboration?”

[fresh basalt]

No room for sentimentality in that situation.

[young shoal]

you're also supposed to punch them to get them to stop struggling, allegedly

[fresh basalt]

Depends on the situation.

There's a specific way to haul struggling victims to shore though.

(to avoid them grappling you and pulling you under)

[young shoal]

i think the reason they emphasize the helping yourself first on planes so much is that people underestimate how quickly you lose consciousness

[quasi blaze]

Why won’t you elaborate when I ask for an elaboration?

[fresh basalt]

Yeah it's real.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUfF2MTnqAw

great video

[young shoal]

is that an F-5

[fresh basalt]

It's an awesome video - check it out.

[young shoal]

i am checking

[young shoal]

same reason the real analysis prof doesn't spend time teaching basic arithmetic

[granite tree]

Or, why they say: 'proof is left as an exercise'

[thick osprey]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yHYAG01aaY

[quasi blaze]

That’s a false equivalency

[young shoal]

i checked

[quasi blaze]

@young shoal I honestly think you’re one of the best debaters on this server. You ask rational questions and you’re typically a very logical person. However, whenever someone points out flaws in your lines of reasoning you become dismissive and apathetic. That’s my criticism of you when it comes to debates.

[young shoal]

who?

[fresh basalt]

Cool movie.

[thick osprey]

Fitting scene.

[fresh basalt]

I have the same attitude.

[granite tree]

Tbh, it's not false equivalency. Perhaps a flawed analogy but there's no equivalence being exaggerated.

[quasi blaze]

The substantial difference is that I asked what the mischaracterization I made towards him was and he didn’t elaborate.

When you make a claim, The most sensible thing in constructing your counterargument is making supporting statements. Psvm didn’t do that.

I don’t see how that’s equivalent to a calculus teacher teaching basic arithmetic to a student.

[grave cove]

but he did elaborate

#ot1-perplexing-regexing message

[quasi blaze]

Yeah I know. I was referring to earlier

Wait I mean later

[quasi blaze]

Psvm is asserting that a calculus teacher not teaching a student basic arithmetic equates to one not making supporting statements behind one’s claim.

[grave cove]

i mean, i guess you can look at it that way. if a calculus teacher had to make supporting statements about every little thing they said we wouldn't get anywhere

math is a field of abstraction

[quasi blaze]

You need supporting statements to fully structure your arguments

[grave cove]

but also pretty sure psvm was just talking, not trying to make an argument 🗿

didn't this whole thing start from tswift's music or whatever

[quasi blaze]

But I asked for an elaboration

[grave cove]

and one was provided

whats the problem

[quasi blaze]

Coming up with a math analogy isn’t providing supporting statements

[grave cove]

they don't have to provide supporting statements

ngl i think you're reading wayyy too much into this

this is a casual discord chat not a mathematical argument

[quasi blaze]

Every claim one makes must provide supporting statements to fully construct an argument. There’s a reason why professors asks for students’ sources for their essay papers

[grave cove]

Every claim one makes must provide supporting statements to fully construct an argument.

nah i can make a claim and not provide supporting statement

[quasi blaze]

You technically can. However, it won’t be a fully constructed argument

[grave cove]

doesn't matter in this context

like i said, its just a discord chat

its not that serious

[quasi blaze]

It’s X. Therefore, that point is dismissed. Is that what you’re telling me?

[grave cove]

i'm not dismissing your point. a well formed argument will have supporting statements, i agree with you on that (which is your main point)

however this is discord so it doesn't matter if your argument is well formed

i am simply saying that while your main point is correct, it's not applicable here

[quasi blaze]

That’s a genetic fallacy.

[grave cove]

what's that

[quasi blaze]

“Your argument is valid from its core. However, it’s not applicable here because we are inside of this environment.”

[grave cove]

how is that a fallacy. that seems quite reasonable

[quasi blaze]

You’re rejecting a sensible argument (that you agree with at core) but your not applying it to other domains like this Discord server

[grave cove]

why would I apply it here if it's futile?

[quasi blaze]

Like you grant that claim and apply it to a school, workplace but for some reason not on this Discord server

[grave cove]

seems like a waste of effort

[quasi blaze]

That’s the genetic fallacy

[wanton moth]

Bro really said “your”

[grave cove]

well yeah. the environment is different

if you're proposing a change at your workplace, it'd be important to give supporting evidence, for instance

[quasi blaze]

Think of a school, gym , library, park as metaphorical DNAs. You apply that belief to these DNAs but you won’t apply that to a Discord server. That’s the genetic fallacy. There’s a lack of logical consistency in your line of reasoning

[grave cove]

i understand what this supposed fallacy is (even if the name doesn't make any sense), but i fail to see why it's bad

[quasi blaze]

It’s bad because it’s logically inconsistent. That’s pretty much saying 2+2=4 elsewhere except Discord

[grave cove]

that's not really the same thing. inconsistency is fine, it's counterproductive to always be consistent. time and place yknow

[carmine apex]

mathematics - and therefore logic - itself is inconsistent

[grave cove]

many times it's convenient to assume something in order to go about something else

[carmine apex]

convenient, hell - it's necessary. if you assume nothing at the start, you possess nothing at the end

[grave cove]

real

this is why we have axioms

mathematicans use different axioms all the time to solve problems. would you argue this is logically inconsistent? is it bad?

[brazen ingot]

abs not

[amber cypress]

bro adafruit looks so cool

cant wait to work on some of the stuff they sell

[grave cove]

adafruit is based

[amber cypress]

looks coool tho

my only problem is idk what I would make with those electrical components😭

however on their website they show cool stuff you can make 😄

[hidden raptor]

!pip white

[royal lake]

white v0.1.2

Black, but White instead (PEP8 line–lengths).

Released on <t:1521110997:D>.

[pliant nexus]

do you guys usually annotate your code while writing it?

or after finishing whatever program you guys were writing?

[paper sequoia]

Often yes, otherwise I easily forget what it's supposed to be + sometimes for the code to work, I need to annotate it, otherwise it won't work in the first place

[pliant nexus]

thats exactllly the problem i'm facing right now

i took a break for 1 week after finishing my project

and now i cant annotate anything since i forgot what type everything was supposed to be

😭

[fringe rain]

yeah

not strictly, but in areas where id get autocomplete

[pliant nexus]

autocomplete type annotations? how?

copilot?

[glossy niche]

yes?

[tardy rain]

Did i miss today's fallacy or something

[fringe rain]

autocomplete from knowing the type

Like this

[thick ore]

there was no LFOTD today 😭

[pliant nexus]

oh, thats what you meant

yea i do that too, sometimes at least

[tardy rain]

Sad, did you know there are over 300 fallacies listed in https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/search

Incredible numbers

I didnt know there were so many ways to be wrong

[lament cairn]

[pliant nexus]

thats over 300 days of entertainment

from keezy

[sick shadow]

There are probably far more than this, it's just no one bothered to name them

[glossy niche]

i was really into this logical fallacy stuff in high school but i quickly felt like it really wasnt very helpful to know them

i mean, its good to read them but memorising them and pointing them out by name isnt useful

actually since were on this topic

https://rationalwiki.org is pretty fun for seeing those things in action

its basically wikipedia that documents things like myths and conspiracy theories

[solemn tulip]

(something something software design patterns)

[vocal oyster]

keezy what logical fallacy is this

[quasi blaze]

Logical fallacy of the day: The Genetic Fallacy

Description: Basing the truth claim of an argument on the origin of its claims or premises. The genetic fallacy is the mistake of dismissing an argument, idea, or practice based solely on some aspect of its origins.

Logical Form:

The origin of the claim is presented.

Therefore, the claim is true/false.

Examples:

She is a teacher in a public school, so any claims that she makes about the public school system are biased and untrue.

Lisa was brainwashed as a child into thinking that people are generally good.  Therefore, people are not generally good.

The source of an argument doesn’t invalidate the argument. Don’t jump to conclusions like this.

[quasi blaze]

This is an opinion

[glossy niche]

nah, i think learning abstract patterns is good, its just that you are seldom taught them in a way that helps

e.g. i used dependency inversion in a project this week, it fixed a lot imo

basically i had 3 services, each encapsulates a different resource

[thick osprey]

They suffer from the same drawbacks when applied prescriptively.

[glossy niche]

one for process handles, one for files, and one for big ML models loaded into memory

id say i was right to do this because it made testing easier

[thick osprey]

Sounds like it was a success. Glad you were able to simplify the testing.

[solemn tulip]

dependency inversion is not really a design pattern imo, but more an idea and a mechanism

imo it's more useful to know properties we like (single responsibility, modularity, ...) and then design stuff with that in mind

rather than shoehorning things into a pattern that may or may not be a good fit

[thick osprey]

Injection and Inversion are patterns of design. Design patterns are ideas and concepts that can be turned into mechanisms. The shoehorning is a drawback when those patterns are viewed as prescriptive. Part of knowing the patterns is knowing where to bend or even break them to meet the goal best.

[fresh basalt]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOLID

Is there a rule stating that "somebody smarter than you probably already figured it out"?

[solemn tulip]

these are called design principles, yeah

[thick osprey]

Liskov's principle is quite often the only one of the five I apply regularly. The rest are situational. Single-responsibility is so subjective.

[fresh basalt]

I know.

@thick osprey I'm not in a position to apply any of them anymore.

Haha sweet freedom. :P

https://tenor.com/view/gosling-rain-blade-runner-cry-gif-27556477

[solemn tulip]

it was more a comment on "Injection and Inversion are patterns of design"
unless "patterns of design" should not be confused with "design patterns" 🥴

design principles are high level goals, while design patterns are more low level implementation (presumably patterns born out of the guidance of the design principles)

[thick osprey]

Design patterns should be treated just as high level as design principles.

[solemn tulip]

how so?

a factory pattern is a much more concrete thing than something like single responsibility

[thick osprey]

There isn't one way to build a Publisher pattern.

There isn't one way to build a factory pattern either.

[solemn tulip]

I agree both are kinda high level

but they are different high levels imo

[thick osprey]

They are concepts. Concepts directed at different layers of the implementation, yes.

[solemn tulip]

the point was just that stuff like SOLID are high level ideals, while design patterns are more concrete solutions

"more concrete" doesn't mean "there is only one way to implement it"

more of a contract than a blueprint

[fresh basalt]

Aren't blueprints basically contracts between the architect and the builder?

[solemn tulip]

I mean

if you have a better analogy, I'm all ears

like an adapter says "if I'm given an X, I'll produce an Y" which is a contract of how it behaves

but not a blueprint in how it's implemented

[fresh basalt]

I think that's what Preocts was saying too.

[thick osprey]

More or less.

Words are difficult.

[quasi blaze]

I would argue that words are not difficult. The articulation of words are what’s difficult

[fresh basalt]

I would argue
Yes, you would. :P

[vocal oyster]

so, words are difficult