python-discussion

[crisp jay]

Its kinda old but its useful

[velvet hull]

Thx for telling will look that later but gonna stick on this one for now

[hexed topaz]

What should i make in python?

[golden mortar]

!kin

[edgy kraken]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[hexed topaz]

Why cant i click the link?!

[ocean ridge]

guys i finally fixed a feature after 10 hours of working 😭

[crisp jay]

On your game editor?

[bronze dragon]

https://nedbatchelder.com/text/kindling

[ocean ridge]

yes. it was totally unoptimized for exporting

[hexed topaz]

Thank you!

[ocean ridge]

3 hours yesterday and 7 hours today

im gonna open source it tmrw or day after tmrw.

its usable now

[bronze dragon]

(you have to click the blue "Kindling projects page" text, not the "Kindling Projects" heading, I guess is what went wrong)

[ocean ridge]

i have worked like 50 hours+ on the game editor now 😭

[velvet trout]

Why was blue color picked from the rest of the colors for hyperlinks on internet.

[crisp jay]

Its attractive or smth

[wraith oxide]

idk rlly maybe cuz they just seemed proper

[hexed topaz]

Is there a way that i can hide all of the outputs in a python program?
Like is there a function where I can hide all previous outputs and start from a clean shell?

[gleaming knoll]

reimplement CLI utils like :
head, tail, nl, rev
grep, cut, tr, sort, uniq
paste, wc
cat, seq, tac

[hexed topaz]

What do those mean?

[wraith oxide]

certainly not make a compiled language

[gleaming knoll]

why?

[wraith oxide]

its horrible

[crisp jay]

Linux

[gleaming knoll]

how is python horrible for implementing a compiler?

[wraith oxide]

i just finished one myself

it was worst programming expirience i had like ever

[gleaming knoll]

how is the python language itself at fault for this? what problems did it give you?

[bronze dragon]

depends on how you're running your code. if you're just in a terminal, you can use a command like clear (may vary by OS) to clear everything

[wraith oxide]

just implemeneting compiler is horrible no matter language honestly python is the best way

[wraith oxide]

honestly just a few memory managment before full compilation

[gleaming knoll]

its not horrible, just hard

[wraith oxide]

nothing serious but it was still better

but at least it was worth it, a dynamiclly typed compiled language

[gleaming knoll]

did you do nan tagging for primitives

[wraith oxide]

honestly i was just doing stuff it doesn't even have a tokenizer

[gleaming knoll]

[wraith oxide]

its justa homebrew of stuff

[gleaming knoll]

how do you handle nested constructs?

[wraith oxide]

i fake them

and it works

[gleaming knoll]

like?

[wraith oxide]

like for example modules
so u do import stuff
stuff.function()
i just do stuff__function()

[velvet trout]

I think contextlib had something to control stdout/in/error

[gleaming knoll]

!d contextlib.redirect_stdout

[edgy kraken]

contextlib.redirect\_stdout

contextlib.redirect_stdout(new_target)```
Context manager for temporarily redirecting [`sys.stdout`](https://docs.python.org/3/library/sys.html#sys.stdout) to another file or file-like object.

This tool adds flexibility to existing functions or classes whose output is hardwired to stdout.

For example, the output of [`help()`](https://docs.python.org/3/library/functions.html#help) normally is sent to *sys.stdout*. You can capture that output in a string by redirecting the output to an [`io.StringIO`](https://docs.python.org/3/library/io.html#io.StringIO) object. The replacement stream is returned from the [`__enter__()`](https://docs.python.org/3/reference/datamodel.html#object.__enter__) method and so is available as the target of the [`with`](https://docs.python.org/3/reference/compound_stmts.html#with) statement...

[velvet trout]

Not sure if that's the appropriate thing

For your case, but worth checking stuff here and there

[wraith oxide]

is this to me?

cuz i don't want to like ignore someone

[gleaming knoll]

lmao i had the same thought
like i understood what thing they are talking about but i dont understand to who they are saying it

[twin night]

hi guys

[wraith oxide]

prolly to me or just forgot to add reply

[wraith oxide]

hi

[crisp jay]

What is new_target?

Is it a file?

[gleaming knoll]

the file-like object to which sys.stdout will be set to

[crisp jay]

Oh

[gleaming knoll]

kinda
usually yeah
but it can also be say, a StringIO - just needs to support read and write methods

[hexed topaz]

Im running idle 3.11 on my chromebook through the crostini enviornment. Does this work on my system?

[crisp jay]

Chromebook 😭

[wraith oxide]

btw my language is called boblang cuz why not totally not stolen from golang its syntax looks like this idk if its good or not https://paste.pythondiscord.com/W57Q

[bronze dragon]

IDLE? then you'll need to see if there's an option to clear the output somewhere... probably there is but I don't use IDLE

[spice hamlet]

:0

[wraith oxide]

its like python at home but at least compiled

[gleaming knoll]

how is the memory management done? seems to be automatic but im not sure what the semantics are

[crisp jay]

Can you make fun instead of func 🥺

[spice hamlet]

it looks like if nim and go had a child (it looks good)

[velvet trout]

Yes

I was too lazy to tag

[spice hamlet]

is that a kotlin reference

[wraith oxide]

yea but why ?

[crisp jay]

Please

[gleaming knoll]

no its an SML reference

[velvet trout]

Because why not

[gleaming knoll]

all programs should be written in Standard ML

[wraith oxide]

i just have a weird amalgamation vars objects and funcitons are on heap but literals and such stuff is semi manually freed by compiler

[spice hamlet]

that's no fun! (ba dum tss)

[velvet trout]

Guys

Why not from __future__ import func_as_def ?

We have one for != To <> then why not for just a keyword?

[gleaming knoll]

yeah but like are you reference counting are you garbage collecting are you doing ownership semantics with scope drops

[crisp jay]

Idk ask to Guido

[wraith oxide]

gc

[velvet trout]

Why go directly to guido lmao

[gleaming knoll]

what gc? boehm?

[velvet trout]

Or fun_as_def for fun

[crisp jay]

Maybe he knows how

[wraith oxide]

yea more exactly i was too lazy to do it myself so just a sneeky #include <gc.h>

[velvet trout]

I don't think so

[wraith oxide]

maybe i should allow you to switch keywords

[velvet trout]

Yeah!

[spice hamlet]

how useful do you (the reader of this message) think this comment is?

# level 2
    Level(
        width = 32,
        height = 16, 
        name = "Your First Threat", 
        window_sprite = '#',
        blocks = [], 
        enemies = [Enemy(Vector2(16, 13), '?')], 
        coins = [], 
        player = level_player, 
        time_left = 300, 
        end_pos = Vector2(16, 14)
    )]

[crisp jay]

Does the python docs explain how import works?

[dry pike]

what's the context?

it's in a list?

[velvet trout]

There was a pep i think which talked about a proper mechanism for import system IIRC

[spice hamlet]

yeah

[crisp jay]

I mean you could add a level_id as the number of the level

[dry pike]

I think I would prefer to have that a dict, with the keys being the level number

[gleaming knoll]

https://docs.python.org/3/reference/simple_stmts.html#import
which links to https://docs.python.org/3/reference/import.html#importsystem

[spice hamlet]

k

[wraith oxide]

well now i need to get to implementing standard libraries among which will be a fast version of pygame

[gleaming knoll]

how are you going to make SDL faster?

[wraith oxide]

i just won't use it, after all opengl exists and i always wanted to learn it

[velvet trout]

Why does __import__() even exist? And when is it appropriate and recommended to use it?

Is it python 2 leftover?

[crisp jay]

Like whats make import better than define in C/C++ and how it works

[spice hamlet]

levels: dict[int, Level] = {
    1: Level(width = 32, height = 16, name = "Humble Beginnings", window_sprite = '#', blocks = [Blocks(Vector2(5, 5), Vector2(2, 2), '#')], enemies = [], coins = [Coins(Vector2(10, 12), Vector2(4, 3), '$')], player = level_player, time_left = 300, end_pos = Vector2(31, 15)), 
    2: Level(
        width = 32,
        height = 16, 
        name = "Your First Threat", 
        window_sprite = '#',
        blocks = [], 
        enemies = [Enemy(Vector2(16, 13), '?')], 
        coins = [], 
        player = level_player, 
        time_left = 300, 
        end_pos = Vector2(16, 14)
    )}
    current_level_number: int = 1
    current_level: Level = levels[current_level_number]

[velvet trout]

Doesn't define not about importing code from other files?

[gleaming knoll]

you mean compared to #include?

[spice hamlet]

like this?

[dry pike]

yeah

[cerulean ravine]

it's useful when you need to import something named in a variable

[gleaming knoll]

(dynamic imports - say, a plugin system. though then importlib will usually be the proper choice, not dunder import)

[velvet trout]

Yeah that's what i thought

thought*

[coarse salmon]

please use a formatter lmao

[spice hamlet]

yea, i'm going to have everything on separate lines so it's easier to read

[velvet trout]

I can understand that, although i see importlib preferred, isn't it? what exact appropriate usage would be to use this over importlib?

[dry pike]

yes, kwargs must be with no spaces around = unless there is a typehint

[wraith oxide]

btw how much faster than python should my language be

[cerulean ravine]

hmm, that I don't know

[cerulean ravine]

this is for you to decide.

[gleaming knoll]

this isnt really a sensible question
it will depend on the specific programs

[wraith oxide]

okay three times it is

[velvet trout]

i wonder, time to google to check what other says

oh wait

Doesn't this server have a channel for this type of question

[crisp jay]

Yea

[velvet trout]

include probably pulls and paste the code in that place ig xD

[crisp jay]

Love how C++ took +30 years to make an import system thats not even implemented in all compilers (I think)

[velvet trout]

LMAO

Same could be said for lazy import ig

[gleaming knoll]

well they are atleast somewhat implemented in gcc clang and msvc
just not fully

[crisp jay]

I heard that only gcc has implemented it fully

[mossy sigil]

Ohh shi i accidentally left this server as i was cleaning all inactive servers from my server list

💀

[velvet trout]

discord.gg/python

Most easiest way to remember

[gleaming knoll]

what makes it better? namespaces => no name collision
how it works? modules are objects with their global variables being the attributes

[mossy sigil]

Fr fr , tyvm

[raven urchin]

import minecraft
Minecraft.Minecraft

Look guys, I made Minecraft

[crisp jay]

Like needing to use header guards/pragma once so that you dont get errors bc the compiler just ctrl c ctrl v all the code in the preprocessing step

[frosty oriole]

an iq too high

[raven urchin]

Of course

[gleaming knoll]

hi robin automatic reference counting

[raven urchin]

Your pfp is too cute

[peak egret]

dont

[raven urchin]

Where is it from

[raven urchin]

What?

[fossil steeple]

class Copier(type):
    def __getattribute__(cls, name):
        print(name)
        return super().__getattribute__(name)

class Weapons(metaclass=Copier):
    EXCALIBUR = Weapon("Excalibur", "A mighty sword that deals 25 damage.",damage=25)

hey lads what am i doing wrong here

oh wait nothing i didn't have my test right lol

[coarse salmon]

theres too much metaprogramming going on here lol

you def dont need to subclass type

[fossil steeple]

i need to be able to intercept classvars

[coarse salmon]

how come?

[fossil steeple]

bc i need to give copies of the classvars cos i'm gonna start adding like durability to weapons

[frigid quartz]

Hi

[coarse salmon]

why not just make durability a field on the weapon class?

class Weapon:
  durability: float

[frigid quartz]

Hi

Pls permission

[charred tusk]

for what

[wraith oxide]

i love how inefficient my compiler is and stil outperforms python

[wraith oxide]

ig they meant permission for images

[charred tusk]

or voice

could be multiple things

[crisp jay]

Now try it out against PythonJIT

[grave tree]

how are you benchmarking it?

[wraith oxide]

k

[celest osprey]

compiler for what lang

[wraith oxide]

literally a single inefficient algorithm that just in method of O(n**2) searches for primes ina given range

[wraith oxide]

my language

[celest osprey]

huh

[gleaming knoll]

you mean the cpython jit? or pypy?

[celest osprey]

oh alr alr

[crisp jay]

Try to implement Sieve of Erastosthenes

[fossil steeple]

yeah but the weapons store types of weapons and we don't wanna have all the swords going down when one does

[crisp jay]

Whatever the one that works

[wraith oxide]

yea i can do that but then i have to get a lot bigger numbers to get the two languages to compare

[grave tree]

and you do it once or do you timeit? How do you timeit in your language?

[bronze dragon]

consider distinguishing a Weapon from a WeaponType

[coarse salmon]

that doesnt make sense

[fossil steeple]

so like have weapon type have a tuple instead of the actual weapon

[coarse salmon]

each weapon has its own durability

[wraith oxide]

well my language is just python with easier c importing support so i just written ismple get time funciton in c and it looks like this https://paste.pythondiscord.com/VDYQ

[crisp jay]

1 million

[hexed topaz]

Its really not as bad as people say it is

[hexed topaz]

Then what do you use?

[fossil steeple]

i might do this but i'm tryna cut down on the amount of idea i'm getting from other ppl cos i wanna make the mistakes and fix it myself

[velvet trout]

Bruh no spaces around operator and operands!

[wraith oxide]

i sometimes do it i sometimes don't

[potent sun]

hi guys

[cerulean ravine]

why isn't each sword a separate object, with its own attributes?

[thorn juniper]

Is there a way to make python type things with out pyautogui (I am learning python atm)

[gleaming knoll]

https://pyautogui.readthedocs.io/en/latest/keyboard.html

[crisp jay]

Keyboard

[potent sun]

I just started learning python 2-3 days ago.

[fossil steeple]

def is_os_good(os):
  if os.can_delete_system_files:
    return True
  else:
    return False

[crisp jay]

!pypi keyboard

[edgy kraken]

keyboard v0.13.5

Hook and simulate keyboard events on Windows and Linux

Released on <t:1585000026:D>.

[velvet trout]

Ema write a PEP for your language then

[wraith oxide]

you could try using pydearimgui

[velvet trout]

Ain't no way i letting inconsistency appear

[fossil steeple]

a seperate class?
there's gonna be more objects in there in a sec

[thorn juniper]

Ty

[gleaming knoll]

pyautogui is not for making gui, its for automating interaction with guis - moving the mouse, pressing keys

[wraith oxide]

well my language is free i tolerate any amount of whitespaces

[wraith oxide]

god i forgor

[charred tusk]

Yeah don't be Python, just ignore whitespace

[velvet trout]

That's not the issue, it's the aesthetics/appearance

[wraith oxide]

sorry no i am just stupid and gave wrong answear

[charred tusk]

Hi Ned

[gleaming knoll]

(they asked how to do it with pyautogui)

[wraith oxide]

yes ik

[velvet trout]

Especially consistency

[thorn juniper]

Oh

[cerulean ravine]

i don't understand. In your game, there will be multiple swords, right? Each with its own durability?

[crisp jay]

Is there a way to make python type things with out pyautogui (I am learning python atm)

[potent sun]

You guys have any idea how do i add empty lists outside of my loop. Because it keeps giving me a NoneType error when the variable strikes in the loop.

[crisp jay]

with out

[potent sun]

or i am just dumb.

[cerulean ravine]

we need to see your code

[celest osprey]

you are probably over looking something

[potent sun]

do i copy all of it or....

[celest osprey]

happens all the time

[gleaming knoll]

ah, you are right, didnt notice the out because of the space

[potent sun]

wait

[crisp jay]

.append([])

[velvet trout]

!code

[edgy kraken]

Formatting code on Discord

Here's how to format Python code on Discord:

```py
print('Hello world!')
```

These are backticks, not quotes. Check this out if you can't find the backtick key.

For long code samples, you can use our pastebin.

[gleaming knoll]

why not pyautogui?

[cyan scaffold]

Unexpected indentation smh

[crisp jay]

Slow

[velvet trout]

Would be more appropriate if you give us the exact code even if long so we can give appropriate and accurate help

[wraith oxide]

well now i need to go faster than python jit cuz now my performance looks abysmal

[gleaming knoll]

how is pyautogui slow? just set the appropriate interval and zero the global pause (not sure why it exists but yeah)

[wraith oxide]

thanks

[velvet trout]

Because of python

[potent sun]

uhh i pasted it on the site

what next

[crisp jay]

Idk just heard that it is and im lazy to do it

[cerulean ravine]

!pastebin

[edgy kraken]

Pasting large amounts of code

So that everyone can easily read your code, you can paste it in this website:
https://paste.pythondiscord.com/

After pasting your code, save it by clicking the Paste! button in the bottom left, or by pressing CTRL + S. After doing that, you will be navigated to the new paste's page. Copy the URL and post it here so others can see it.

[bronze dragon]

I use a terminal text editor called Helix, and run my code from a terminal itself using. But you don't have to use these if IDLE works for you.
(eventually you would want to move on to something more featureful like VS Code, but idk how well that works on a Chromebook)

[final hollow]

Click save, then share the link

[cyan scaffold]

Beat it with your human speed or it's fast /j

What kind of speed you're looking for

[potent sun]

hold up i am new to this thing wait

[gleaming knoll]

🚀 blazingly fast 🚀

[potent sun]

https://paste.pythondiscord.com/UL6PH57IKYMR2FMHXFY24Q6YH4 does this work

i am using var_list so it prints out all the created titles when the loop expires.

[crisp jay]

str(input(
[Insert higuruma gif]

[thorn juniper]

It’s blocked on my school computers

[velvet trout]

Quantum level

[crisp jay]

Lmao

[gleaming knoll]

is it specifically pyautogui thats blocked, or pypi in general?

[cerulean ravine]

line 37 adds None to var_list, because print() returns None. What did you want to add to the list?

[thorn juniper]

Whenever I tried to pip install it on py.exe it’s says invalid syntax

[potent sun]

whatever printed out after after I used out1 and out2 in the loop.

[cerulean ravine]

Maybe instead of print() you want var = f"Here's your new game title: {out1} {out2}"

[potent sun]

wait trying it right now

[gleaming knoll]

you arent supposed to write pip install in a python REPL
you run it from a normal command line

[cyan scaffold]

The keyboard module exists

[crisp jay]

Doesnt line 13 and 14 give a number that gives indexerror?

[thorn juniper]

I’m a beginner at python idk how to install it

[thorn juniper]

Wdym

[crisp jay]

pip

[gleaming knoll]

open a terminal (not python, just a terminal) and do pip install package where package is the package name

[cyan scaffold]

You install it just like you'd install pyautogui

[thorn juniper]

Oh Ty

[potent sun]

@cerulean ravine Thank you sir, for your help. It's a little janky but I'll work it out. [sleep hormones are kicking in]

[quiet lake]

programming just clicked today, i was making project without ai and i am doing it good and i think i am gonna go pro in future

[potent sun]

Got the idea from a youtube short for some reason.

[crisp jay]

Idk whats worse:
str(input( or input(print(

[potent sun]

print seems wrong there

or i am just new

[crisp jay]

You might be

[gleaming knoll]

input(print( is worse because its wrong, not just redundant

[potent sun]

i am still thinking what purpose could print server in their tbh.

[spice hamlet]

input(ehehe)

is way worse

[potent sun]

yeah 😭

[potent sun]

I need to debug my optical nervous system after this

[cerulean ravine]

no, because of the -1 on the next lines, but it'd be better to use randrange, good catch

[velvet trout]

Anything with input around it

[crisp jay]

@potent sun Btw you DONT need to do str(input( because input() ALWAYS returns a string

[velvet trout]

I wonder what was behaviour difference between raw input and input in python 2, did it implicitly convert by guessing?

Gotta check out old docs

[harsh anchor]

yes

[velvet trout]

How much did it guess and how did it even guess at all? Did it have any loopholes

[potent sun]

I know yes.

[gleaming knoll]

it did eval

[velvet trout]

Probably due to practice of int(input()) and similar is why you did that, right?

[velvet trout]

💀

yo why would python go that hard

[potent sun]

I just learnt this an hour before about my weird redundant script

[velvet trout]

I see

[crisp jay]

💀

[potent sun]

while i was busy fixing my function problems

[gleaming knoll]

its not that bad unless you have a redirected stdin
you're just evaluating the python code that you wrote, its as bad as a python REPL

[potent sun]

after which i had the weird idea of using the list i started to make.

[crisp jay]

sys.input() is faster than input() right?

[cerulean ravine]

no

[potent sun]

and now I can't process anything.

[cerulean ravine]

first, sys.input doesn't exist.

second, they would both wait for the user to type something, so ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[potent sun]

this looks like something out of java

[gleaming knoll]

sys.stdin.read()
though that will wait until eof not newline
so sys.stdin.readline()
and .rstrip('\n') then
horrible

[surreal knot]

thinking in real time

[potent sun]

Thank the holy coding gods for blessing us with Python. I gave up on Java when I saw the amount of script for just printing,

[velvet trout]

Wait sys has input()?

[bronze dragon]

and print(prompt, end='', flush=True) beforehand

[potent sun]

java is still important nonetheless

[crisp jay]

Mb it was sys.stdin

[bronze dragon]

or, I suppose sys.stdout.write, if we're going that way

[gleaming knoll]

sys.stdout.write(str(prompt))
sys.stdout.flush()
sys.stdin.readline().rstrip("\n")

amazing code right here

[potent sun]

@bronze dragon can I dm you pal?

[velvet trout]

I see but i consider it bad, feeling lucky to be born in python 3 era

[bronze dragon]

sorry, but no, please ask questions in public

[crisp jay]

Oh yea

sys.stdin.read()

[potent sun]

(off-topic, might get muted idk)

[crisp jay]

I used it only one time in my entire life 😭

Is it faster than input?

[bronze dragon]

you can ask in the offtopic channels I guess

[potent sun]

#off-topic-lounge-text

[velvet trout]

That God is Guido van Rossum and other devs who helped improve the language a lot.

Java makes sense when you get namespace and OO mentality/POV, it gets easier once you're familiar with such stuff

[potent sun]

Yes.

[velvet trout]

I myself find it hard due to natural human thinking of BIG == HARD

But later when i learnt basics of programming and OOP, it made sense and not so long/hard, although it is verbose but it makes sense in its own way

[cyan scaffold]

#ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval message

[spice hamlet]

lua

[velvet trout]

How long would it take for the java community to migrate? Since it says 25 which i assume is 2025

[crisp jay]

Java makes OOP easier to understand idk why

[spice hamlet]

i really like OOP

[gleaming knoll]

i like x.f() because of autocompletion, but thats not necessarily OOP, UFCS and dispatch can do that

[velvet trout]

Also because of statically typed programming

[crisp jay]

You can achieve this in C iirc

[velvet trout]

It makes sense after a long journey

[gleaming knoll]

i mean you can have a struct with a function pointer
but x wont implicitly be passed to it
and making a function pointer for each struct value is pretty crazy

[crisp jay]

Bjarne is crazy tho

Thats why C++ exist

[cyan scaffold]

Is that a HolyC reference?

[crisp jay]

Does the vatican uses Holy C?

[charred tusk]

probably

[velvet trout]

Holy Python

Holy P

[potent sun]

Holy Binary

[crisp jay]

That would be awesome

Python interpreter in Holy C

[velvet trout]

Real

[potent sun]

typing with 0s and 1s must have been insane though.

[dull arrow]

I did play around with TempleOS recently, coercing gcc into generating binaries which can run on TempleOS. In my head I called that endeavor "Unholy C"

[velvet trout]

no Oop, no traits, no abstract concepts, just speak the language electronically

[potent sun]

Hmm yeah.

Software Engineer beck then

no compiler

[velvet trout]

Punch cards ✊👊

[potent sun]

i dont think no debug even

just 0 and 1

[potent sun]

yeah

[gleaming knoll]

eh it shouldnt be hard to transpile the CPython codebase to HolyC

i dont think it uses gcc/clang specific extensions

[steel whale]

using stdout is actually faster than printing

[velvet trout]

type Class = type[object]  # or simply type
type Instance = object

Which one to pick? And is it accurate to what typename is?

[cerulean ravine]

is it?

[steel whale]

afaik yes

test it yourself

[cerulean ravine]

you made the claim, you should show us your test

[celest osprey]

i swear we went through this before lol

[steel whale]

lemme make one

[gleaming knoll]

im not sure what is the point of the Instance alias
since all types inherit from object type[object] is "any type", not sure whether class is accurate since there are types which are not made with the class keyword

[velvet trout]

Claims without evidence can be dismissed without evidence xD

[velvet trout]

Is it correct tho? Like i want to differentiate between instances of a type/class vs a type/class

[celest osprey]

haha #python-discussion message

[velvet trout]

Guess i should differentiate between type and class too

[gleaming knoll]

int : Class and 42 : Instance
though int : Instance is also not wrong, really - everything is an Instance
but 42 : Class would error which is what you want i guess

[velvet trout]

How do i? Or is it generally enough

[gleaming knoll]

in the typesystem - you cant

[crisp jay]

What about sys.stdin.readline?

[velvet trout]

Isn't int a type than Instance? How is it substitutable with object?

[gleaming knoll]

types are also objects - they have a __repr__ and stuff
all values are objects

[velvet trout]

Evrything is an object ahhh

[fossil steeple]

correct

well weapons to be exact

[crisp jay]

Python is Java but with functions

[velvet trout]

Huh

[cerulean ravine]

wouldn't a simple instance attribute be enough? I don't understand what your metaclass is for.

[velvet trout]

Everything is OO-able

[fossil steeple]

the metaclass is there to intercept the classvars from my class filled with all the different types of weapons

the metaclass is gonna do smth with them in a second

[gleaming knoll]

i consider using a metaclass for anything concrete an overcomplication

[cerulean ravine]

this sound intricate. I'm not sure you need it, but i don't know your whole plan.

[timid ember]

Somethingd arent

[gleaming knoll]

something daemon
somethingd

[velvet trout]

Rip

[fossil steeple]

well see there doesn't seem to be a way for intercepting classvars without metaclasses

[velvet trout]

Pattern recognization 🔥

[cerulean ravine]

idk what you mean by "intercepting classvars", or even exactly what you mean by classvar.

[gleaming knoll]

.endswith("d")

[wise imp]

__init_subclass__?

[velvet trout]

Difflib had a stroke lmao

[fossil steeple]

!d classvar

[edgy kraken]

Naw.

No documentation found for the requested symbol.

[gleaming knoll]

ok its time to binge watch some more romance anime

[velvet trout]

.endswith("d")

[cerulean ravine]

do you mean an attribute on the class instead of on the instance?

[fossil steeple]

exactly

[cerulean ravine]

ok, and why are you intercepting them?

[velvet trout]

Because why not? XD

[velvet trout]

I want some programming anime

[fossil steeple]

i need to make deepcopies of the classvars

anyway i have it done now

[velvet trout]

?does the preceding ? Triggers bot

?hibot

[fossil steeple]

wait i actually don't seem to need deepcopies they seem to be made by default

interesting

[heavy narwhal]

Guys I’m 14 completed some python courses and im very familiar with the basics and don’t know what to do next i ultimately wanna go into AI and machine learning and have some spare money with which i could buy some books on python but i wanna know what i should focus on now and some book recommendations ig, Have also worked with oop and basic async

[dry pike]

[fossil steeple]

oh welp that was a waste of time

[cerulean ravine]

i'd like to know more about what you are doing, because i don't think you need a metaclass, but also deepcopies are not done for you by default.

[fossil steeple]

yeah'll explain the whole thing in a second

[cerulean ravine]

a pastebin of the code will help

[grave tree]

(you should grab a help channel and explain there)

[coarse salmon]

ya youre definitely shooting yourself in the foot by trying to over-engineer the design

[fossil steeple]

x = Weapons.EXCALIBUR
x = 2
print(x,Weapons.EXCALIBUR)

this gives

2 Weapon(name='Excalibur', effect='A mighty sword that deals 25 damage.', damage=25)

therefore deepcopies are made by default

[fossil steeple]

grand

[cerulean ravine]

no, there's no copy. x=2 doesn't change Weapons.EXCALIBUR

[coarse salmon]

like fundamentally Weapons should be a dictionary or list or something, it being a class makes 0 sense

[cerulean ravine]

classes often make sense. You're being very definite when we don't have all the information

[fossil steeple]

yeah but i've put x as excalibur i thought that meant it just had a reference

i'll get the help channel up now

[cerulean ravine]

x had a reference to excalibur. then x = 2 changed it to refer to 2.

[heavy narwhal]

Guys I’m 14 completed some python courses and im very familiar with the basics and don’t know what to do next i ultimately wanna go into AI and machine learning and have some spare money with which i could buy some books on python but i wanna know what i should focus on now and some book recommendations ig, Have also worked with oop and basic async

[coarse salmon]

fair enough, from what ive seen it just looks like weapons is a store for all different weapon defintions in the game

[white temple]

Your "therefore" is wrong here. Line 2 overwrites the reference stored in x

[crisp jay]

The name Weapon would be better for a class

[fossil steeple]

1035199133436354600

huh

oh wait that's id

https://discord.com/channels/267624335836053506/1485010256734982185

[cerulean ravine]

here's a video that explains a lot of this: https://nedbatchelder.com/text/names1

[fossil steeple]

oh wait but methods won't so i do need a deepcopy

[fossil steeple]

who is the young chap in the video

[wise imp]

classes can easily be used simply as data containers (think struct in C), just like a dictionary and you get dot attribute access
there's nothing fundamentally wrong about it, it's in that sense exactly the same as using a dictionary (a list would be a bit dubious for something that benefits from named properties though and semantically incorrect, a tuple maybe, but again, lack of named attributes)
god damnit, you said Weapons... well, still, a class (such as an enum) might make sense for this, it'd be similar to having a dictionary of enum: object pairs

[crisp jay]

Btw you are only changing x not Weapons.EXCALIBUR

[coarse salmon]

yeah i would personally go
WeaponDef for storing static data about a weapon
weaponDefs: dict[str, WeaponDef] for storing the map of weapon def ids to their respesctive definition
Weapon for the actual game runtime object that does stuff
WeaponManager for the object attached to the player that manages all of the player's weapons

source: the naming convention i used for the game i worked on the past 2 years

[crisp jay]

Enum would be better

[coarse salmon]

enum is fine, but it might not be super useful since i feel like it would be rare to access a specific weapon by its static id

[cerulean ravine]

😄

[dry pike]

weapon_defs

[coarse salmon]

like if you have 200 weapons the player can pick up, the logic is probably going to be like player.primary_weapon = picked_up_weapon referencing a variable not a specific id

[coarse salmon]

ya mb, context switching from typescript brain

[quick compass]

Hello nedbat

I see that you are a helper, May I know if you have knowledge in data science field?

[wise imp]

why even bother with this meta question instead of just asking what you want to know?

[dry pike]

you can run JS/TS in the brain now? this is the dystopian future they warned us about

[quick compass]

#data-science-and-ml message

[wise imp]

at least you can't segfault your brain with js

[charred tusk]

coming soon...

[wise imp]

you can probably confuse it pretty badly though

[dry pike]

lobotomize.js

[wise imp]

don't need a library/module for that, the spec itself is enough

[wise imp]

just be a bit patient

[quick compass]

I have no issue waiting if I can expect a reply.

[left path]

Anyone here use gemini code assist?

[runic flower]

haven't had great experiences with it. for casual coding queries I find windows copilot > gemini > chatgpt I haven't tried "codex" yet.

[coarse salmon]

no

[left path]

i want to use codex but usage limit low

[runic flower]

I didn't even know they had a limit, but I'll to give it a try later and see.

[left path]

ya only issue i have with gemini is its tool access

seeing if anyone has found a way to give it web search

[coarse salmon]

claude has been pretty good to me for learning recently

since when it explains, it tends to use much more up to date info than chatgpt

like chatgpt still recommends to use SERIAL in postgres even though it was deprecated 9 years ago lol

[charred tusk]

It was?

[coarse salmon]

soft deprecated i suppose

[charred tusk]

What's the replacement?

[raw bramble]

21 years of data vs 9 years of data

[coarse salmon]

id INTEGER GENERATED ALWAYS AS IDENTITY

[charred tusk]

Isn't that not the same?

What if I want a SERIAL thats not my PK?

[coarse salmon]

well it's the modern replacement, there were a few issues with serial that it tried to address

[runic flower]

Yeah stuff like that happens all the time. I asked ai how to get rabbitmq installed via helm and it lead me down a LONG rabbit hole (NPI) before finally after much debugging announcing that it can no longer be done after I started checking rabbitmq's documentation myself. This is a typical expereince, sometimes AI cuts through the noise and is a big win, sometimes it gets lost in legacy forests and just delays you.

[coarse salmon]

i dont think it has to be a primary key

can just be used wherever

[crisp jay]

I use manual pages

[coarse salmon]

yeah ive slowly gotten better at identifying when it doesn't really know whats going on so i can cut it off early instead of wasting time

[left path]

?

[charred tusk]

But it says identity

Is it stealing other tables identities?

[crisp jay]

https://www.man7.org/linux/man-pages/index.html

[left path]

how does that relate to what i said 😭

[coarse salmon]

idk what you mean

[charred tusk]

What good is an identity that’s not an identity

[coarse salmon]

well im pretty sure 95% of the time you would use it for a pk

but it's not required

[silver plover]

https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Don't_Do_This#Don.27t_use_serial

[charred tusk]

“Identity” !~= “serial”

Not even a little bit

Okay maybe a little bit
But serial columns are not inherently always identity

[scarlet wyvern]

hello guys

[static patio]

hey people there is a chineese woman here that give a script to use it
then when I installed the script it have trojan horse
told here when I met you I will knock you out cold

[lost bison]

my fave haiku this year

[wise imp]

peak embed

[crisp jay]

Is someone in here good with cryptography?

[bright shoal]

huh?

[brisk pagoda]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1428150509210173464/1429445689821233222/togif.gif

bro why cant i send gifs

they turn into links

[cerulean ravine]

so that people can have discussions instead

[brisk pagoda]

oh alr

mb

[cerulean ravine]

np, it's unusual in a discord server

[wise imp]

it's unusual even within this server, this is the only channel with that restriction

[manic flare]

I’ve seen quite a few servers which do the same, especially in general-type channels

[dry garden]

guys, for loops in c make more sense than in python

[wise imp]

how come?

[gleaming knoll]

c for loops are just while loops where the end of the loop goes at the loop header
python for loops are "foreach" loops - do something for each element of an iterable

[fossil steeple]

ppl will abuse it

[crisp jay]

Maybe because of abstraction

[dry garden]

you dont iterate thro a list, you loop a number of times under a certain condition, straightforward

[dry garden]

exactly

[gleaming marten]

Whats not straightforward about iterating through a list

Is this tired bait

[dry garden]

yeah

[lunar cobalt]

Is yfinance a yahoo api or a scraper?

[crisp jay]

Ngl I prefer writting python for loops

[peak relic]

scrapes it I believe

[crisp jay]

Imagine if C had for (int i = 0..10)

[fossil steeple]

yahoo

[lunar cobalt]

If I use it in some code can i share the code?

[fossil steeple]

get it

[lunar cobalt]

Like I cant use it for commercial use

[crisp jay]

I know that C++ has that

[lunar cobalt]

But in a github repo for example

[dry garden]

the c solution makes more sense to me, personal preference at the end of the day

[peak relic]

Im pretty sure you can

[wise imp]

where does this belief come from?

!pypi yfinance

[edgy kraken]

yfinance v1.2.0

Download market data from Yahoo! Finance API

Released on <t:1771271554:D>.

[gleaming marten]

Ok so next time you say "i think ..."

[dry garden]

alr

[lunar cobalt]

just checked, it is

a scraper

[wise imp]

it literally says it uses an API

[gleaming knoll]

im not sure how

for (size_t idx = 0; idx < array.size; idx++) {
  process(array[idx]);
}

makes so much more sense than

for element in array:
  process(element)

[gleaming marten]

There is no yahoo finance api anymore i dont think

[crisp jay]

for (auto element : array) 
{
  process(element)
}

[lunar cobalt]

Okay I just checked better and it mostly uses an API but actually does scrape some things

I think the API is internal though?

So like not meant to be used like this

[gleaming marten]

Cant be internal if yfinance sees it

It just scrapes

[peak relic]

Its undocumented API... So I guess a bit of scraping is involved

[gleaming marten]

Yahoo shut down their finance api like 10 years ago

[unborn lagoon]

It's a combination of web scraping + a publically available though seemingly undocumented API. The free Yahoo API was deprecated in 2017 and shut down in 2019 or so.

[wise imp]

why'd they not keep it alive forever, smh

[gleaming marten]

Yahoo wasnt doing so well

[gleaming knoll]

did it get sick?

[raw bramble]

Why does Yahoo still exist? How does Yahoo still exist?

[coral musk]

can anyone help me?

[raw bramble]

Depends, what do you need help with?

[unborn lagoon]

Japan still uses Yahoo quite a lot.

[fossil steeple]

no absolutley no one knows python here

[green perch]

you are from India right

[gleaming marten]

No?

[coral musk]

https://discord.com/channels/267624335836053506/1485026760155463780 trying to create another macro it keeps breaking when i copy and paste

[green perch]

ok my bad

[wise imp]

why?

[gleaming marten]

Theyre still in the 90s technologically

[gleaming knoll]

are they safe from AI slop??

[wise imp]

hmm, I was under the impression they were rather advanced, like Korea

[fiery yarrow]

cries in hayao miyazaki

[wise imp]

(I hope not because of some subconscious idea of "all asians look the same" 😭 )

[gleaming marten]

Im sure they have some cool gadgets of their own

[unborn lagoon]

It's basically a different company from Yahoo in the US, pretty much.

[wise imp]

I see

[crisp jay]

That one virus that changed my search engine years ago?

[errant steppe]

If you suddenly received $50,000 at your doorstep, which of these would you spend it on first?

1. Family
2. Child
3. Car
4. Bills
5. Clothes
6. Food
7. Investment
8. School
9. Vacation
10. House
11. Savings
12. Donations”

[peak relic]

Kinda offtopic for this channel, no?

[silver plover]

!topic

[edgy kraken]

Off-topic channels

There are three off-topic channels:

• #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval
• #ot1-perplexing-regexing
• #ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

Use any of the three, it doesn't matter.
The channel names change every night at midnight UTC and are often fun meta references to jokes or conversations that happened on the server.

See our off-topic etiquette page for more guidance on how the channels should be used.

[gritty kite]

piton

[steel whale]

no

even the most remote islands and countries are not safe from AI slop

[runic wharf]

Javathon

[spice hamlet]

jython tho

[runic wharf]

P++

[spice hamlet]

P#

[runic wharf]

Python.jr

#include <CGame.h>

[frank turret]

Python?

I only know PythOWO

[runic wharf]

PythShutTheFuckUp

[frank turret]

Makes sense

[runic wharf]

Minecraft Pisty

[gritty kite]

A wild tesseract

[remote harness]

should I use pycharm or visual studio?

[cerulean ravine]

whichever you prefer

[remote harness]

are any of them better

[runic flower]

if you know either of them use the one you know best. If you plan on doing other languages than python you might find vscode a better investment.

[stray field]

Try zed too

[remote harness]

alr thanks

[remote harness]

okay

[cerulean ravine]

they are both large and complex, and people will like or dislike different things about them.

more people use VSCode these days, but that might not be a deciding factor

[remote harness]

k ty

[runic flower]

One vscode feature (extension) I found recently lets me remotely build/run/git python on my linux box from my windows desktop, gives me a remote ssh for the terminal window too. Very convenient.

[remote harness]

w

[charred tusk]

Are you using the official one or a third party one?

[coarse salmon]

If you want tabout the best extension known to mankind use vsc

[runic flower]

"remote - ssh by microsoft" even supports drag and drop of files from windows to the linux box.

[charred tusk]

Based

[stray field]

Microsoft should open source the remote extension. Iirc, most of its functionality is built into vscode

[autumn pelican]

And pigs should fly

[stray field]

They open sourced the copilot extension, so there's a chance.

But that was probably in response to cursor

[raw bramble]

Microsoft should just Open Source all of their products and have people who actually care about their stuff fix it

[cerulean ravine]

"just"

[peak egret]

justfile

[rare gazelle]

its not like u must use microsoft products

i think that there aren't any better alternatives

for example, windows

or vscode

(although vscode is open source?)

but its not like i must use their products

[runic flower]

there are forks of vscode, like Cursor that remove some of the microsoftiness of vscode.

[rare gazelle]

cursor does look like vscode, didn't know it's a fork of it

i think that the better route is to try and make an os better than windows, and open source

[stray field]

What's your favorite justfile recipe?

[rare gazelle]

that can load exe files natively, and basically support all of windows features

or not, but do things better

[cerulean ravine]

in other words, reimplement all of windows?

[rare gazelle]

thats not what i said

[stray field]

Cursor ruined Microsoft extensions for code-oss and vscodium users.

[rare gazelle]

i said to have all its features, or neglect some and have better features

[cerulean ravine]

"basically support all of windows features?"

[rare gazelle]

so people could move to it without losing features

[cerulean ravine]

how do you support all the features without reimplementing everything?

[rare gazelle]

u reimplement the features u want, thats true, but its not a windows copy

[cerulean ravine]

"all the features"

[unborn lagoon]

reactos has been trying that out for years

[rare gazelle]

i then changed it to "or not, but do things better"

[cerulean ravine]

ok

[rare gazelle]

it doesn't need to be exactly all the features

it needs to feel that u dont lose by moving

and if its open source u finally dont need microsoft

and dont rely on it

[cerulean ravine]

sounds great, but it;s a lot of work. better get started

[rare gazelle]

didn't think about it, but yea

[peak egret]

should i make my dream proglang or not

[rare gazelle]

yea i agree... i do not like relying on microsoft to begin with

[autumn forge]

yes

[peak egret]

i need to ban OOP but i cant

[cerulean ravine]

why do you need to, and why can't you?

[autumn forge]

well, you can not add it

[peak egret]

polymorphism is good, encapsulation isn't

[autumn forge]

polymorphism isn't just an OOP concept

[peak egret]

yep but its hard to reason about it outside of OOP

[tame hinge]

Languages like go and rust already effectively ban oop

[peak egret]

they don't

rust doesn't

rust just doesnt have inheritance, it has all other oop features

[autumn forge]

why do you say that?

[kind thicket]

It's like comparing which horse is faster, the red or black one.
Rather than restricting yourself to a single paradigm, why not embracing what's best in each paradigm (there are more than 2 paradigms)?

[peak egret]

compare modern TS to rust, TS gets verbose quickly

[autumn forge]

rust can also be very verbose

I don't see your point

[peak egret]

no I mean look at idiomatic React code

[tame hinge]

React is meant to be more like functional programming for its usage is it not?

[peak egret]

the thing with modern TS is that classes are hated

TS doesn't have pretty features like dataclasses, and people just prefer to create raw "unbranded" objects, then later realize their mistake and hack on a "brand" property

[tame hinge]

Yea the typescript/JavaScript community doesn't seem to like oop generally.

[soft notch]

hello

[peak egret]

ban

[autumn forge]

I don't really understand what you're getting at. If there are things you don't like about OOP, then... don't include them? It is your language, you can do what you want.

[velvet trout]

Pythonic morning, chat

[cerulean ravine]

hi there, what's up?

[velvet trout]

Is not that name and profile violating some rules? Or not.

[grave tree]

could you change your nickname in this server to something that isn't blank?

[soft notch]

ok

[grave tree]

ty

[coarse salmon]

I mean ts is also very high level and solves different problems than rust

But I agree that bad typescript can get very ugly

[peak egret]

i dont feel TS is any higher level than Rust is

[peak egret]

presented to you by openai

[velvet trout]

I would still credit Astral for that

[peak egret]

I wish there was a better way to write this:

p = await create_subprocess_exec(
    "tree",
    "--gitignore",
    *(["-P", self.pattern] if self.pattern else []),
    stdout=PIPE,
)

[crisp jay]

Why does it exist

[coarse salmon]

??

It compiles directly to machine code

[peak egret]

even JS does

[crisp jay]

TS is just a linter

[autumn forge]

why does what exist? Polymorphism?

[cerulean ravine]

do you mean in Python, or do you mean you want your language to do it better?

[peak egret]

in Python

[crisp jay]

Yea

I dont understand it in OOP

[coarse salmon]

Generics are nice

[soft notch]

mr Batchelder do you have a website where i can learn python

[jagged belfry]

move the ternary into it's own variable called extra_args

[tame hinge]

It's so that you can take the shape of something, define this shape, and anything that matches it you can use while knowing nothing about it. You get more variation and reuse. Even functions can be polymorphic.

[cerulean ravine]

I'd write it as:

pattern_option = ["-P", self.pattern] if self.pattern else []
p = await create_subprocess_exec(
    "tree",
    "--gitignore",
    *pattern_option,
    stdout=PIPE,
)

[tame hinge]

It's like saying, I need something with this shape, and anything can fill it in, the stuff filling it in can be entirely separate.

[crisp jay]

Ok that makes sense

[peak egret]

i could maybe add a feature to my library tshu that uses t-strings

[jagged belfry]

extra_args = []

if self.pattern:
  extra_args.extend(["-P", self.pattern])

p = await create_subprocess_exec(
    "tree",
    "--gitignore",
    *extra_args,
    stdout=PIPE,
)

[autumn forge]

specifically in OOP, it is useful that subtypes can be used wherever a type is valid, i.e., a method expecting an Ant would also work with WorkerAnt. WorkerAnt may have different behaviour to, say SoldierAnt, but this doesn't matter to a method which expects simply an Ant

[peak egret]

await sh(t"tree --gitignore {self.pattern and ['-P', self.pattern]}")

[crisp jay]

extra_args = list()

if self.pattern != None and self.pattern != False:
  extra_args = extra_args + ["-P", self.pattern]

p = await create_subprocess_exec(
    "tree",
    "--gitignore",
    *extra_args,
    stdout=PIPE,
)

[jagged belfry]

+= can be used here too I guess

[autumn forge]

list() ew

[jagged belfry]

My instinct keeps itching at me to make extra_args a dict but that's not how the command line works unfortunately

[crisp jay]

I wanted to make extra verbose

[slender urchin]

Or?

[crisp jay]

What if pattern is equal to 0

[peak egret]

p = await create_subprocess_exec(
  *ListFactory("tree")
    .args("--gitignore")
    .args("-P", self.pattern, when=self.pattern)
)

[autumn forge]

de morgan's law strikes again

[slender urchin]

Isn't x != a or x != b always true is a isn't b

[crisp jay]

Oh yea

[jagged belfry]

should be and

[autumn forge]

in which case you'd want is not False as 0 == False will evaluate to true

[peak egret]

p = await create_subprocess_exec(
    *Cmd(tree, "--gitignore").args("-P", self.pattern, if_=self.pattern),
    stdout=PIPE,
)

Cmd(...).if_(condition)(*arguments) is also possible

tree = Cmd(cmd) if (cmd := shutil.which("tree")) else None

    def if_[*K](self, condition: object) -> Callable[[*K], Cmd]:
        def wrapper(*args: object) -> Cmd:
            if condition:
                return self.arg(*args)
            return self

        return wrapper

not sure how to type this

[shrewd plinth]

Man, I'm spinning out on a course assignment because I'm being asked to select 20 random values from an array that are evenly spaced, presumably while using their random seed

Maybe I do'nt need to get the exact value they did and there's a tolerance, but I'm afraid I need to match it exactly

Also, this isn't even an algorithm class so I'm not sure what they want me to do

[peak egret]

pick random values until you pass the test cases

[shrewd plinth]

hah

Honestly

[peak egret]

tell claude to do it

[shrewd plinth]

nah

I know AI too well to rely on it for this

I don't even know if they want evenly spaced logarithmically, linearly, or index...ally

Screw it, I'll do it indexally. I doubt they're looking for an actual selection algorithm here

[pallid garden]

nowadays i cant even trust my linter

let alone an LLM

[autumn pelican]

And soon rust devs won't be able to trust the compiler 🥀

[vale wasp]

How can you match it exactly if it's random?

[shrewd plinth]

I mean, I can fix a random seed. But I'd have to figure out the methodology that they used, right?

[vale wasp]

What's the exact text of the assignment?

[shrewd plinth]

The potentially relevant bits:

Instructions:

1. Fit an unpruned tree on training data and obtain ccp_alphas via cost_complexity_pruning_path on the TRAIN split only.
2. Subsample up to 20 unique alphas, evenly spaced.

Whoah sorry, forgot about markdown

[raw bramble]

Finding issues and annoyances to solve has to be a skill I swear

[shrewd plinth]

Anyway, I already have the array. By subsample I assume they're applying sklearn.utils.resample. But the "up to" and "evenly spaced" are throwing me for a curveball

[vale wasp]

So your unpruned tree is an array?

[shrewd plinth]

Not my tree, just the alphas that are calculated as part of the cpp algorithm

[vale wasp]

And how long is the array?

[shrewd plinth]

239

So I might just go by index in terms of evenly spaced, because they are not spaced evenly in absolute terms

[wise imp]

I mean, you can still fix it by editing the message

[peak egret]

i would drop out

[shrewd plinth]

you and your logic

[vale wasp]

So [arr[n] n for n in range(0, len(arr), len(arr) // max_samples)] should do it.

[wise imp]

hmm, applying dropout here? interesting approach

[peak egret]

its my favorite computer science approach after vodka

[shrewd plinth]

Right, but at that point, it's wierd to call that a subsample. But idk. I'm probably going to do something like that, only consider index when asked for "evenly spaced". Although I'd argue that "subsample up to 20" could just be 1. Or 2.

[pallid garden]

you jest, but i have taught people python while on gin before

[shrewd plinth]

Idk, I hate the problem statement

[granite wyvern]

I've got a function prep_argv(argv) which returns a new argv list after tidying it. I use it both directly and through run() (a pretty thin wrapper for subprocess.run) so that i can make argument lists like this (real example):

        run(
            [
                'rsync',
                not doit and '-n',
                ('-e', ssh_exe),
                not quiet and '-i',
                verbose and '-v',
                partial and '--partial',
                bwlimit and ('--bwlimit', bwlimit),
                doit and not quiet and sys.stderr.isatty() and '--progress',
                '-ar',
                delete and '--delete',
                f'--exclude={fstags.tagsfile_basename}',
                *rsync_opts,
                '--',
                f'{srcdir}/',
                f'{dstdir}/',
            ],
            doit=True,  # let rsync -n do this
            quiet=quiet,
        )

prep_argv (called internally by run above) turns that into a flat argument list, discarding None and False arguments and inlining the tuples (which are there basicly to eg group ('-e', ssh_exe)

[shrewd plinth]

I have coded while blazed

THe downside is that I have no idea what my comments mean

[wise imp]

-# (dropout is a machine learning technique where you drop out some neurons during learning to help it generalize better or some such)

[shrewd plinth]

#yo, this right here

[vale wasp]

It could be 1 or 2. But since the array is larger than 20 it seems that the desired output is 20 based on index.

[shrewd plinth]

I just dislike the ambiguity. I'll try just evenly spacing the indices out and if that doesn't work see if I can get enough points on other sections for that one to not matter.

It's a newer course which is good for getting caught up on later advances but bad for being the guinea pig

[vale wasp]

Give feedback to the instructor that the wording is unclear and has multiple possible interpretations along with at least 2 of your interpretations. Ask what the correct interpretation is.

[shrewd plinth]

That's probably the best approach

[vale wasp]

The feedback that the instructions aren't clear should help. It's also possible that the instructor doesn't care how you interpret the instructions.

[shrewd plinth]

haha

I'm actually not 100% sure I can contact the instructor. This is for a master's program but it's performance based admissions. I have to pass 3 specific classes with a certain grade to get admitted.

[hybrid nebula]

Lifehack: to deal with unwanted ambiguity, pick one interpretation and convince yourself that's the only reasonable one

[patent solstice]

Hi guys , hope everyone if fine !
Rn i am learning python from a book , and w3sschools .
Also i use Gemnin to create me some problem to solve and some mini project to do so i dont forget what i took and use them.
is this a right way to learn python?
(ping me)

[shrewd plinth]

I mean I could reverse engineer his email address from other prof emails at the university

w3schools is a very unreliable source, and llms can also be fairly unreliable

[swift sparrow]

w3schools is a terrible resource with lots of incorrect information, and AI is not generally a good way to learn either

[vale wasp]

I once had an assignment to "write a program that will clear a 25x80 terminal window." My solution:

void main(char* argv, int argn) {
    system("clear");
    return 0;
}

Instructor was looking for:

for (i = 0; i <= 25; i++) {
    print("\n");
}

He had taught us system in that class. I got an A on the assignment.

[swift sparrow]

Pick an actual structured resource and work through it so you can better track your progress

[vale wasp]

!slorb

[edgy kraken]

Go-to beginner resources

Here are the top free resources we recommend for people who are new to programming:

• Automate the Boring Stuff — an online book (also available to purchase as a physical book)
• Harvard’s CS50P course — video lectures (slides and notes provided) with exercises
• Python Programming MOOC 2026 course — text-based lessons with exercises
• Corey Schafer's YouTube playlist

For a full, curated list of educational resources we recommend, please see our resources page!

[shrewd plinth]

I saw a really funny language course submission. I think it was a english class based in russian. Kid had to submit a sample conversation, it went something like this:

"Hello, do you speak Russian?"
"Yes, I do"
"Great! Please tell me how to reach the terminal"
russian directions
russian response
russian farewell

the prof was not amused

[hybrid nebula]

I had to write Java code (on paper, of course) in a test to list the 0th to 10th powers of 2.
Guess what approach they wanted

[vale wasp]

I would hope not!

[vale wasp]

It involved 3 classes.

[hybrid nebula]

spoiler: repeated addition, N times for number N (so overall O(n^2))

Guess how I did it

[vale wasp]

Do you know how many times I've written malloc and free on paper?

[hybrid nebula]

15?

[autumn forge]

by writing them down from memory?

[vale wasp]

I stopped counting. It was a common interview question back when I worked in C.

[hybrid nebula]

using the Java built-in power of 2 operator

[orchid pier]

Damn bro

[hybrid nebula]

1<< x

[vale wasp]

Nice!

[autumn forge]

powers of 2 aren't that hard to remember (or mentally compute)

[vale wasp]

Works in Python too 😃 #bot-commands message

[orchid pier]

Ur too good at coding

[vale wasp]

At some point they get annoyingly large.

[orchid pier]

I can't remember

[steady rain]

Did you figure out how to write the function I described to you?

[orchid pier]

Yo the function

oh that function

[steady rain]

It needs to be named "adder". It needs to have one parameter named "x". It needs to return x plus two.

[patent solstice]

tbh i dont know what to use and lost
cant u suggest anything?

[autumn forge]

true, but 2^10 is still pretty small

[toxic breach]

[orchid pier]

So

[vale wasp]

Yeah. 1K

[steady rain]

Can you write that or not?

[autumn forge]

in any case it is a bad question, and bad questions ought to be answered in equally silly ways

[orchid pier]

I took a long break my bad bro

[shrewd plinth]

update on my thing, I just wound up doing:

indices = np.linspace(0,238,20).astype(int)

[steady rain]

See if you can do it right now.

[patent solstice]

What do u suggest?

[orchid pier]

Alr

[patent solstice]

mm , so what source do u suggest? the book is just the basics , how can i learn?

[hybrid nebula]

1 2 4 8 16 32 64 128 256 512 1024 2048 4096 8192 16384 32-something 65536

[shrewd plinth]

!resources

Well, you know how you best learn, but if you're really not sure where to go, here are some good ones. Automate the boring stuff is very popular

[edgy kraken]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[orchid pier]

Damn

[orchid pier]

I forgot some of the codes bruh

I got an F in coding

[hybrid nebula]

0x1 0x2 0x4 0x8 0x10 0x20 0x40 0x80 0x100 0x200 0x400 0x800 0x1000 0x2000 0x4000 0x8000 0x10000 0x-

[shrewd plinth]

Can I do powers of 2 but in binary

[patent solstice]

this is cool! i will search for the best

[vale wasp]

!slorb is the new thing for beginners.

[edgy kraken]

Go-to beginner resources

Here are the top free resources we recommend for people who are new to programming:

• Automate the Boring Stuff — an online book (also available to purchase as a physical book)
• Harvard’s CS50P course — video lectures (slides and notes provided) with exercises
• Python Programming MOOC 2026 course — text-based lessons with exercises
• Corey Schafer's YouTube playlist

For a full, curated list of educational resources we recommend, please see our resources page!

[steady rain]

This is almost the simplest function I could possibly ask you to write, so if you still want to learn python, you should try reading about functions again

[hybrid nebula]

You can use binary, but you have to do powers of 3

[orchid pier]

Can I read it tomorrow?

[shrewd plinth]

You're giving me flashbacks to an interview where they wanted me to convert from base 3 to base 7 in my head

[rugged barn]

Might be a stupid question,
But when would you ever actually want to use a sentinel value?

[patent solstice]

I want also to ask smth , many freind also my freinds tell me that Ai will take my job and yap yap yap.
i just want to hear more people saying why AI wont take my job or my dream so i feel a releaf:)))

[shrewd plinth]

and no, it was not relevant to the position in any way shape or form

[steady rain]

Sure.

[patent solstice]

idk what is it yet lol

[vale wasp]

That's just cruel.

[orchid pier]

W

[rugged barn]

Yeah I'd fail that one 🫠

[hybrid nebula]

I think I could build that from the box of transistors I have on my desk

[vale wasp]

None True False are all sentinels.

[peak egret]

how to do it?

[shrewd plinth]

What's worse is that I was told it was just a screening call, then I was suddenly there for the company's vp of engineering

[hybrid nebula]

C uses them all the time

[shrewd plinth]

Also, I was off by like.... only 1 or 2 somehow, I have no idea how i got that close. Still got mocked

[vale wasp]

That's fucked up.

[hybrid nebula]

Null-terminators for strings are just sentinel values

[rugged barn]

I mean...
Sure.
But why not... just use a default.
Unless I'm misunderstanding the point here

[patent solstice]

I want also to ask smth , many freind also my freinds tell me that Ai will take my job and yap yap yap.
i just want to hear more people saying why AI wont take my job or my dream so i feel a releaf:)))

[vale wasp]

In what context?

[shrewd plinth]

Yeah. I still get some interviews like that from time to time.

[rugged barn]

Like, a function parameter has a sentinel value

[hybrid nebula]

Sentinel values can be used to send a stream of data without knowing the length

[vale wasp]

Are you applying for a job as a mathematician?

[shrewd plinth]

I don't know what AI will take or not take, nobody really does. It's not even about the technology, it's about what people think the technology can/will do

[rugged barn]

Oh that's sensible actually

[vale wasp]

Define "sentinel value"

[shrewd plinth]

I do tend to apply for numerical computing/scientific developer roles but I cannot fanthom how any of that was important for this role. I don't recall exactly, but I think it was AI/ML?

I also had to write SQL in my head and rattle of linux syntax

[grave tree]

Check if a value was set or is still a default. You make the default a sentinel and then check if it's still the sentinel

[hybrid nebula]

user sends 'h'
user sends 'i'
user sends '!'
user quits
technically a sentinel value

[patent solstice]

as i see , it wont , but things will be fine always , human wins in the end

[shrewd plinth]

I think AI and its impact is very unstable now and it will be some time until we can see its true effect.

[vale wasp]

I can understand SQL pseudocode but base conversions in your head? That's nucking futs!

[rugged barn]

I see
That makes sense, TY

Explains it succinctly

Much appreciated, you two

[shrewd plinth]

Yeah, I'm like..... man, I haven't done this since college

and I had pen and paper

[vale wasp]

I despise whiteboarding interviews. They are such a waste of time.

[hybrid nebula]

Well I have done 10-16 in my head

or should I say 10-10

[shrewd plinth]

The market is so rough these days that I'm even willing to do takehome assignments. Although I've limited myself to only ones that can be done in an evening. No more of this week long stuff.

There was a hero online though who did take home projects but watermarked them and said he's had a couple companies completely flip out over it

[vale wasp]

I know hex well enough that I can convert in my head anything up to 0x1000

[vale wasp]

I would prefer a takehome to a whiteboarding.

[shrewd plinth]

I think I would, too. But also like... My algorithms are on medical devices that are out on the market. I should jsut be able to point and say "there's your proof"

Idk. I'm also of the belief that like.... idk man, 5 rounds of interviews max

I don't care if you're hiring for the CEO

[patent solstice]

yes

we gotta wait for now, but i know learning and understand the code could protect me from it

[vale wasp]

I once went through a process of 5 or 6 interviews. Left the last one being told to expect to hear about next steps in a day or two, i.e. expect the job offer. Got home to find an no thank you email in my inbox. (This was before smartphones.)

[rapid mulch]

So I added a comma to fix an error

And I got 56 errors

❤️

[shrewd plinth]

Haha that's how it is

I've been fixing the error that came from fixing the error that came from fixing the error that....

[rapid mulch]

1e7 errors

[vale wasp]

Sounds right.

99 little bugs in the code.
99 little bugs.
Take one down,
Patch it around.
117 little bugs in the code.

[rapid mulch]

😭

[vale wasp]

There's a reason 80% of the job is debugging.

[rapid mulch]

I’m a beginner and decided to make my programming assignment harder by using nodes for a CYOA game

This sucksss it takes forever cuz im a bad writer

[patent solstice]

what are these things i gotta lock in :((

[rapid mulch]

Its a form of data management

[patent solstice]

Ohh , i am still in the very beginnings

like def and for loops

[rapid mulch]

Me too I just chose a really hard way to do something to learn

[rapid mulch]

That’s where I’m at too :p

[shrewd plinth]

Is it the writing part that's tripping you up? Or the organization of it?

[patent solstice]

What are u doign with data bro , there is still much lol

[shrewd plinth]

I suggest instead of using defs and for loops you.... oh. A graph works really well for this

If you're uh, familiar with graphs

if not then RIP

[patent solstice]

https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/

[rapid mulch]

Writing parts annoying and long but the engine is really hard

[patent solstice]

is this a good source?

[grave tree]

Is Python your first language?

[shrewd plinth]

Seems like it but bear in mind the tip, it's made for programmers new to python as opposed to someone new to programming

[rapid mulch]

It’s made by the Python devs so I’d assume so

But it’s kinda hard to read syntax

[patent solstice]

i know a bit of c++ , but for Arduino , so Python is my first

[rapid mulch]

Scott pilgrim pfp ❤️

[vale wasp]

!slorb I highly recommend looking at these.

[edgy kraken]

Go-to beginner resources

Here are the top free resources we recommend for people who are new to programming:

• Automate the Boring Stuff — an online book (also available to purchase as a physical book)
• Harvard’s CS50P course — video lectures (slides and notes provided) with exercises
• Python Programming MOOC 2026 course — text-based lessons with exercises
• Corey Schafer's YouTube playlist

For a full, curated list of educational resources we recommend, please see our resources page!

[rapid mulch]

CS50p is really good if you do the problem sets

[patent solstice]

Should i watch it?

[rapid mulch]

How do I make a message formatted in code 'py something?

[rapid mulch]

Yes but most importantly do the problem sets it’s hard to learn otherwise

[strong lava]

Hi where is the channel to ask for help with coding ?

[vale wasp]

What do you mean?

[rapid mulch]

Your in it

[shrewd plinth]

!code-block

[edgy kraken]

Formatting code on Discord

Here's how to format Python code on Discord:

```py
print('Hello world!')
```

These are backticks, not quotes. Check this out if you can't find the backtick key.

For long code samples, you can use our pastebin.

[vale wasp]

#1035199133436354600

[shrewd plinth]

Hah, I guessed it

[patent solstice]

sorry did not get it

[vale wasp]

There are problem sets, exercises. Watching the videos is not enough. You need to do the problem sets as well.

[patent solstice]

So to many things will confuse me tbh .
I have
1-Automate the Boring Stuff with Python
2-CS50
3-https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/

i can not use 3, i should stick with 1 or 2 max ?
what do u think all?

[patent solstice]

yes , i gotta learn how to type and use the code

[vale wasp]

If videos help you learn more, CS50P. If you learn more by reading, Automate the Boring Stuff.

The python.org tutorial is aimed at experienced programmers.

[rapid mulch]

nodes = {
        “nodeName”: {
                   “text:”: “\n txt”
                    “choices”: {
                           “choice1”: {
                                “next: “node1”
                           },
                           “choice2”: {
                                     “next”: “node2”
                           }
                     }
              },

This is how I’m formatting my nodes (roughly my phone makes it really hard to type it exactly vs what’s on my laptop)

[patent solstice]

OK ty , i will see one , i love reading , so the book is full pyhton totorail?

[vale wasp]

Pretty much.

[patent solstice]

ok tysm!

what are your experainces?

btw?

[vale wasp]

I've been a professional software engineer for 20 years.

[pallid garden]

dont you ever sleep?

[vale wasp]

It's only 21:29 here...

[pallid garden]

20 years is a long time to stay awake...

[granite wyvern]

Is this dyslexia with times a problem?

[vale wasp]

My eldest turns 20 in June. That should explain why I haven't slept in a few decades.

[rapid mulch]

Can someone give me feedback?

[vale wasp]

Not dyslexia. 21:29 is the correct time in my current location.

[patent solstice]

AH 20 years?

[vale wasp]

Yes.

[patent solstice]

Thanks for the help!
how is the job market after AI , AM i cooked?

[rapid mulch]

He’s been a professional software engineer longer than Ive been alive

[rapid mulch]

Will it change? Yes. Will it go away? No.

[vale wasp]

Damned if I know. It depends on how big the bubble's popping is going to be. There will be a lot of fallout.

[pallid garden]

another settlement (company) needs your help (to fix their vibe coded stack)

[patent solstice]

so u think , that i will have a job and Ai wont make me homeless?

[vale wasp]

I don't even think that about me.

[patent solstice]

yea "hello DANS , our SMART AI MADE SOOME MIStAKeS , can u ple fix it ?

[vale wasp]

Eventually. The question is when,

[shrewd plinth]

Well, on one hand AI is still growing. On the other hand, a lot of the push of replacing engineers with AI is done by people who don't understand the limitations of AI. So who knows where it will balance out over time.

[pallid garden]

ive already started

[rapid mulch]

People who know jackshit about what they are in charge of making cataclysmic decisions about

[pallid garden]

AI is still growing yes, but most of the dataset has already gone in

[patent solstice]

Yea my freinds are making an app with lovable i told them we need to work in it , they oh oooono, this AI is smarter that u poor coder , i told we will see

[patent solstice]

INVESTORS , tbh i dont think subs will make a profit for them

[shrewd plinth]

Honestly, even on the upper bound, I don't think GenAI can ever grow beyond a point where it's probably approximately correct

[vale wasp]

A friend of mine, a staff software engineer and PSF board member, was just laid off last week with a number of other people at their company. There's fallout.

[pallid garden]

someone is going to have to fix this shit in the future

[patent solstice]

Also i heard that they are cutting emplyers bc of no money , but they are saying we are using AI so investors dont get the money back

[shrewd plinth]

Honestly, you know what the most important thing is? If you rely on a person/company and they don't deliver, you can blame/sue them. If you rely on AI and it screws up? You'll be the only one shouldering the blame

I don't pay someone to repair my laptop because I can't, I pay them so I can blame them if it goes wrong

[granite wyvern]

Oh, it's because I'm looking at it from underneath.

[vale wasp]

Oracle fired 30K people because they couldn't take out loans to cover their commitments to OpenAI.

[pallid garden]

-# someone in this server literally got fired yesterday...

[patent solstice]

a espicialy in money and data , these things need profisinal hands , bc 1 screw and u dead

[patent solstice]

i wonder who will manage these data centers

[vale wasp]

You think these data centers will actually exist?

[frosty oriole]

I will

[patent solstice]

if they lol

[pallid garden]

when will oracle fire the 3 billion devices

[patent solstice]

u work in orcale?

[patent solstice]

when they will be dead

[pallid garden]

they probably shouldnt keep so many devices running when they have no customers

[frosty oriole]

No

[patent solstice]

how then?

[pallid garden]

when the last of the 3 billion devices stop using java

[shrewd plinth]

Speaking of, does anyone know how to turn off the stupid google AI when you google something?

[rapid mulch]

To be fair humans are prone to mistakes too

[pallid garden]

yea but humans know that it's a mistake

[grave tree]

I just use a different search engine

[rapid mulch]

My school is in massive debt cause some dumbass messed up

[vale wasp]

Use a better search engine.

[shrewd plinth]

Good advice. Any suggestions on other search engines?

[vale wasp]

I use Kagi. What do you use?

[pallid garden]

https://tenbluelinks.org

[rapid mulch]

Firefox