python-discussion

[orchid vortex]

Yes i have i thought it was related to vscode but why was it called payload

I'll send the list

.net install tool C/C++ C/C++ Extension Pack C/C++ Themes C# C# Dev kit CMake Tools MATLAB Pylance Python Python Debugger Python Environment

[bright mauve]

sadly the worst case scenario can be pretty bad tho. i usually have a recipe for my setup and installs. with a decent internet connection, an hr or two is enough to reset a pc to its former glory

[pallid garden]

did you read the code that they sent

for the packages

[bright mauve]

i saw, but if it'll give em peace of mind

might be faster than a malware scan

[spice hill]

A few years ago I accidentally installed a malicious package, and the only reason that I didn't get pwned is that the package wasn't designed to work on Linux

[orchid vortex]

Might as well reset i guess

[pallid garden]

welp

[orchid vortex]

Once again

[pallid garden]

im just saying

there's something called overkill

[orchid vortex]

I'll transfer my usb files into another laptop then download

[spice hill]

Great excuse to try Linux 🙂

[orchid vortex]

I know

[fresh tide]

@orchid vortex
https://pastebin.com/eezQ0sQe

Apparently scypy is effectively malware, it contains this obfuscated cv2.py script, which is probably a stage.

[orchid vortex]

Yeah i checked it its freaking 4k lines

[pallid garden]

is it obfuscated?

[orchid vortex]

Put it in copilot to check but said nothing awry

[orchid vortex]

Not really, alot of matplot calls

[pallid garden]

this is quite obviously someone's hobby project that they uploaded to pypi out of confusion

[orchid vortex]

Maybe thats what im thinking

[pallid garden]

can you point me to why you think it's obfuscated?

truth be told i might have missed something that you saw

[spice hill]

yeah, this looks like little Ivan's first package

[orchid vortex]

So should i reset? I'll do a basic reset first then i'll do usb reset tommorow

[pallid garden]

written with AI

[spice hill]

Artificial Ivan

[fathom pasture]

    class Window:
        def refresh(self) -> None:
            y, x = self._calc_start_coords()
            self.win.mvwin(y, x)
            self.win.refresh()

    class Screen:
        cur_win: Window | None = None
   
        def start(self) -> None:
            while True:
                ch = self.stdscr.getch()

                if self.cur_win is not None:
                    self.cur_win.refresh()

                self.stdscr.refresh()

why does the window disappear after decreasing terminal size and doesn't appear till next refresh and why does it leave trail when I increase terminal size
this is curses(this is intentional and I don't intend to use anything outside of stdlib)

[fresh tide]

Maybe it's just a wrapper, neither Gemini can find code execution...

[spice hill]

there's no need to scare people for no reason

[fresh tide]

Nah at first glance I deduced russian characters were used to obfuscate, but it actually seems a legit file at first sight...

false alarm maybe

[orchid vortex]

Gonna have to redo bash fixes for the 4th time

Stupid bash had a 0kb file

[spice hill]

👀

[orchid vortex]

Gonna do quick offline scan

[civic prawn]

quick question, does ONNX Runtime support CUDA 13? I'm on Arch Linux and downgrading CUDA is always a mess..

[fresh tide]

The setup is not malicious, it would not have infected just by installing it

[pallid garden]

it doesnt look malicious for sure

[fresh tide]

yeah sounds so

42

[civic prawn]

looks legit at first glance

[pallid garden]

we can never be sure, but i think it's probably overkill to reset the whole pc

[orchid vortex]

Maybe

[pallid garden]

if it was me i would monitor for suspicious stuff

but otherwise i wouldnt do anything else

[orchid vortex]

Honestly I checked all I think i could

I checked all the logon attempts which files they were from in event viewer

[daring surge]

what is this scypy thing

[pallid garden]

cue xkcd 1217

[fresh tide]

Gemini says is a wrapper, as it loads some models like YOLO model and evalute it against images

[pallid garden]

dont worry about it, we were just investigating if it's malware

[pallid garden]

you need to stop relying on gemini

this is the fastest way to lose an argument

[fresh tide]

I'm not trying to win an argument

[orchid vortex]

Thats what I saw the yolo stuff

[fresh tide]

But if you want I'll move to some other place

[pallid garden]

sorry i didnt mean we are arguing

i meant if you were debating someone else

and you brought up you got the knowledge from gemini

you will immediately get questioned

[spice hill]

DeepSeek says telling people that something is malware based on an LLM response is not good

[proud escarp]

hi zehata

[pallid garden]

hello axis

[daring surge]

Did you deobfuscate it

[pallid garden]

fix error can speak russian

[daring surge]

Oh

[spice hill]

there's nothing to deobfuscate, the code is not obfuscated. It just has comments in Russian

[fresh tide]

You know, anyone can come to the same conclusion that 4k lines are easily scannable by Gemini.

[pallid garden]

i think

[pallid garden]

i kinda just assumed that you were able to read the comments

[spice hill]

in this case it's irrelevant what's in this file, because the package doesn't do anything upon installation

[pallid garden]

how did you tell?

what does a setup py that runs a file look like

[orchid vortex]

Its start up.py is just naming its file

I mean setup

[spice hill]

https://github.com/aio-libs/aiohttp/blob/v3.13.2/setup.py

[fathom pasture]

nvm I found the fix

[mellow adder]

has anyone applied at top tech like google/ meta?

I am curious to know your experience.

[bitter ermine]

be prepared not to hear back for ages

[mellow adder]

oh

[bitter ermine]

it doesn't mean anything, for better or worse. with a big tech company, you could email them as a check in/follow up but I wouldn't bother. They haven't lost your application, they're just very slow with it

[naive canopy]

hello

[mellow adder]

i want to work in top tech, because i feel i am unhirable to local businesses for a full time role

[bitter ermine]

side note. anyone's opinion is welcomed. do you prefer this design:

@webhook.on(PushEvent)
def push(event: PushEvent):
    print(event)

or

@webhook.on("push")
def push(event: PushEvent):
    print(event)

I prefer the look of the second one but the type/typo safety of first one and I'd appriciate another opinion

[mellow adder]

idk if they are being dishonest with me to reject me, but everywhere they keep telling me they went with another candidate because they think i will get bored and leave them

[pallid garden]

i think both looks fine to me

[spice hill]

First one

Well, depends, I guess

[fresh tide]

I prefer first one as I can clearly see the event object I'm attaching too

[orchid vortex]

Guys once i develop my mini math ai how would I approach its gui? Like what code to use to make the gui and app

[bitter ermine]

thank you all!

[spice hill]

I think string-based APIs are falling of out favour in Python, now that we have Enum in the stdlib

[orchid vortex]

Im only really familiar with Matlab gui not really anything else, I've done mostly math based coding

[vital spire]

What does @ in python do?

[spice hill]

@decorator
def func():
    ...
``` means the same as ```py
def func():
    ...
func = decorator(func)

[visual juniper]

ask whatever your doubt is , in #career-advice

[vital spire]

Function inside a function?

[bitter ermine]

it's a decorator, it basically wraps a function so you can run code before and after the function is called and even modify the return value etc

[mellow adder]

oqay

[visual juniper]

what is a "mini math AI" ? what does it do ?

[spice hill]

What it does depends entirely on the decorator. It's commonly used for registering event handlers or adjusting how the function behaves. So if you see some code using the @ syntax, you'll need to read the documentation for decorator.

[fresh tide]

It is also the matrix multiplication operator (from 3.5)

[vital spire]

Ty lemme see

[pallid garden]

https://peps.python.org/pep-0465/

No implementations of these methods are added to the builtin or standard library types. However, a number of projects have reached consensus on the recommended semantics for these operations; see Intended usage details below for details.

[bitter ermine]

@vital spire here's a great resource:
https://realpython.com/primer-on-python-decorators/
especially the real-world examples

[cerulean ravine]

I still think they should have used @* for the operator

[pallid garden]

* has some meaning in matrices though (conjugate transpose)

[tranquil tinsel]

For matrix multiplication?

[cerulean ravine]

yes. more mnemonic

[vital spire]

Ah! I forgot this site existed

[orchid vortex]

Its gonna be my own ai that does graphing calculating with its own lexical system, like an llm but not an llm if you get what I mean

[pallid garden]

and it standardizes with matlab

[spice hill]

I wonder, does the @ operator cause any ambiguity in xonsh

[orchid vortex]

Moreso actually like jarvis

[charred python]

Should have used 🥸 for an operator.

[pallid garden]

why would i use it over wolframalpha?

[orchid vortex]

I'll obviously do the calculations myself to confirm if they are right but once Its mostly correct and debugged I'll start partially relying on it

[orchid vortex]

I like to make my own stuff and figure things out from scratch

[pallid garden]

i see

thats good thats good

[orchid vortex]

I have to wait for spacy 3.14 support though for the speaking part

[charred python]

Kevin Spacey doesn't support 3.14?

[visual juniper]

no i dont get what you mean

can you explain what kind of stuff the "AI" will do ? And what do you mean by "AI" exactly ? when i hear "AI" , i correlate it with "prediction"

so are you predicitng the results or are you calculating the result of a mathematical expression? and what kind of math operations will your program do ?

[pallid garden]

i kinda just assumed they are trying to create a cas

[orchid vortex]

Predicting, graphing, calculating, higher level calculations like vector calculus linear algebra quantum calculations higher calculus

[charred python]

Quantum quantum?

[orchid vortex]

Quantum quantum

Field theory and quantum engineering

Thats pretty much what I want to work on

[pallid garden]

are you a college student?

[visual juniper]

what kind of predicting ?
can you give an example of what you will give your AI as input and what it will "predict" ??

all the other stuff like calc, lin alg sounds pretty simple to implement with an existing math library like numpy or smth

and i have no idea what you mean quantum calculations either , from what i know , that is just math , there is nothing "quantum" about the math from what i know , altho i could be wrong.

So an example of "quantum calculations" will also be appreciated

[orchid vortex]

Yes 2nd year university student

[pallid garden]

are you taking quantum mechanics?

[orchid vortex]

Right now im taking mechatronics engineering, then quantum engineering, then physics

[pallid garden]

it's uhhhhhhhhhh... a bit different to say the least

from what you currently know

[visual juniper]

its definately an interesting combination
what is your degree about ? like after 4 years , you will get Bachlores of ..... ?

[orchid vortex]

Quantum as in entanglement, Heisenberg equations, Schroedinger equations, predicting im not sure yet, extrapolation and interpolation is part of my aim for it

[charred python]

Mechatronics? Is that repair and maintenance of giant robots?

[orchid vortex]

Honours for mechatronics, then quantum possibly master, then contingent on my thesis' hopefully physics phd

[pallid garden]

i assume you mean heisenberg uncertainty principle

[orchid vortex]

All my thesis' are aimed around quantum computing

[orchid vortex]

Yes yes

Its ambitious but it's what i like

[visual juniper]

sorry i think you misunderstood, i dont want to learn about terms that are used in quantum physics, i want to see an example of what your AI will do

like an example input and output

[visual juniper]

ahh mechatronics , cool
pretty nice field

[pallid garden]

i wish i had that much money for tuition

[visual juniper]

altho i dont imagine you would be doing much of "quantum" stuff for your current degree ....
definately would be good to do the math part tho , will strengthen your math knowledge

[pallid garden]

strengthen... is an understatement

[orchid vortex]

My parents only paying for first degree, I have to hope for scholarships and a small university job, like a research assistant

[orchid vortex]

Im working on it, my base is not weak but not strong, stronger than those i know my age, but still a hefty amount to bolster

[pallid garden]

when i took my first qm course, almost every symbol in the equations in the textbook is completely new to me

even after having taken all the freshman maths

[visual juniper]

so currently you are not sure what exactly you want to make but you just want to make something ?
thats cool

if you want to learn programming and somehow relate it to math , you can try to write a simple math equation parser to get started with , its a nice exercise

[orchid vortex]

That is great advice

[pallid garden]

that's what they have now i think?

[orchid vortex]

I have to relearn python fully once more, more than I used to know

[visual juniper]

im not sure , it sounded a lot with all the calc , lin alg and quantum stuff 😅

im talking about a simple math equation parser
like , user will input (4-5)*6/4 and you will do the math and spit out an answer

[pallid garden]

they were saying that they want to add things over time

[orchid vortex]

For example I want to give it 3 vectors then evaluate its projection through gram Schmidt

Then plot said projections

[visual juniper]

what is gram schmidt

[orchid vortex]

Its a procedure to calculate the projection of vectors on a dimensional span

[visual juniper]

ahhhh finding perpendicular vectors , okok

[pallid garden]

i had to look it up too haha

[visual juniper]

if you are new , try to start simple

[orchid vortex]

I want it to find a contour integral and plot it, find convergence and divergence in an infinite series, find the saddle point, find stationary point

[visual juniper]

making a GUI , drawing plots , is not exactly a beginner project
start with more like , introduction to functions , while loops , if else statments and go from there

[orchid vortex]

These things that I work with, wave functions with Fourier transform

[orchid vortex]

Will my cpp and Matlab knowledge help

I recall them having kinship

[pallid garden]

if you already know cpp then you should have no problems at all

[visual juniper]

knowing a prior programming language definately helps

[bright mauve]

i'd say yes. if you know matlab, you basically already know numpy and jax

[orchid vortex]

I know Java as well but it's uh we don't talk about java

[bright mauve]

i also came from cpp and matlab to python

[orchid vortex]

And HTML which is pretty useless right now

[orchid vortex]

I came from arduino to small python to html to Matlab to cpp now back to python

Arduino for me was just circuit based and improper coding

Java was its own thing

[bright mauve]

there are books on numerical differential eqs and numerical mwthods in python, as well as statistical methods for ai in python. all those should help both with math and programming

i think ml-oriented references are pinned in the data science channel, maybe check that out

[orchid vortex]

Perfect

All I truly need now is not getting deterred

[pallid garden]

all the best!

[orchid vortex]

Or demotivated

[orchid vortex]

Thank you very much as well

This was all a big help

[visual juniper]

numerical mewthods

[orchid vortex]

My first goal should be force analysis calculations, just simple giving it parameters, complex numbers, matrices eigen vectors, and triple integrals

[oblique spindle]

Why are some questions in coding competitions just troll? 😭 I literally saw a replay of AOC Day 12 today. the despair

:0

[spice hill]

!cleanban @golden wraith some sort of scam

[edgy kraken]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @golden wraith permanently.

[bright mauve]

.uwu

[verbal wedge]

nyumewicaw mewthods

[oblique spindle]

Thanks I was waiting for it

[spice hill]

@spice hill test

[spice hill]

.uwu

[verbal wedge]

@deweted-usew test

[bright mauve]

get deleted, punk

[eager smelt]

*deweted

[oblique spindle]

Btw It was a discord invite link probably to his server 🤣

[orchid vortex]

Wonder what they get from this

Its quite deigning

[arctic phoenix]

can you give here your code?

[orchid vortex]

None right now

Its just ideas right now came ti get advice

I have some code but it's just basic calculations and a mobius plot

Unrelated to the task just a bit of practice

[celest tendon]

😭

[oblique spindle]

I’ll be helping you resolve this issue today. Kindly provide your wallet address so we can check what the problem is and advise you on how to fix it. If you have the transaction hash (TX), please provide that as well. If you don't have it, that's fine. If your issue is unrelated to the wallet, please specify what the issue is so we can assist you further. While I check what the problem is, please stay in your ticket so you don't lose it. Thank you!
.
lmao wtf , got greeted with this message upon joining , 🤣

[hybrid nebula]

.uwu

dammit

[hybrid nebula]

cryptocurrency

[oblique spindle]

people expect programmers to be this dumb?

[past grove]

Come on, let's share our homemade programs, small ones are fine, and we'll understand together.

[hybrid nebula]

#esoteric-python creeps up on us

[autumn forge]

anyone can get scammed

[oblique spindle]

and upon knowning I don't have crypto I got insta banned 🤣

[spice hill]

Having a preconception that you cannot get scammed because you're very smart is very dangerous

https://pluralistic.net/2024/02/05/cyber-dunning-kruger/

[oblique spindle]

I don't have money , hence I can't get scammed

[shrewd pine]

Found a fun python snippet in a blog. Let's play "what does this code do?"

def foo():
  try:
    return os._exit()
  finally:
    return False

import os
foo()

[spice hill]

raises a SyntaxWarning?

[velvet hull]

Info is also scammable

It doesn't need to be money

[hybrid nebula]

You think you can't get scammed because you are smart
I know I can't get scammed because I have $0 and only a debit card
We are not the same

[shrewd pine]

assume an older python

[spice hill]

People get phished all the time, even for a few cents of value that their account provides to spread scam messages

[eager smelt]

exit the interpreter?

[hybrid nebula]

_exit is the raw exit syscall. It shouldn't raise an exception.

[hybrid nebula]

does that even exist on Windows?

[shrewd pine]

that's what I thought, but it's sillier

[hybrid nebula]

?

[velvet hull]

Kek its like scamming the one who knows the sytem

[shrewd pine]

!d os._exit

[edgy kraken]

os.\_exit

os._exit(n)```
Exit the process with status *n*, without calling cleanup handlers, flushing stdio buffers, etc.

Note

The standard way to exit is [`sys.exit(n)`](https://docs.python.org/3/library/sys.html#sys.exit). `_exit()` should normally only be used in the child process after a [`fork()`](https://docs.python.org/3/library/os.html#os.fork).

[shrewd pine]

It takes an argument

it's a TypeError

[eager smelt]

oh

[shrewd pine]

so the finally is run

[hybrid nebula]

💀

wait do we have

aw

[spice hill]

If it takes 49 cents to take my last 50 cents out of my pocket, someone's gonna do it

[frank sinew]

Best platform to practice pyhton on? or best platforms to search for pyhton projects? to master python

[oblique spindle]

🤣

[small torrent]

the terminal platform B)

[oblique spindle]

if you're talking about IDE , it's vs code

[hybrid nebula]

1. Your PC or laptop (or even your Android phone)
2. Github, Gitlab, Codeberg, PyPI

[frank sinew]

damn

[hybrid nebula]

I use Notepad++, that takes 2 seconds to fully start, and I couldn't be happier

[ember quest]

notepad people are crazy

[small torrent]

yup

[ember quest]

at least i get it wit vim

and im sure vim opens faster

[frank sinew]

no i'm basically asking best softwares or websites on which i can find tasks to practice python and where i can can project ideas

[eager smelt]

I use (neo)vim which takes <200ms (btw)

[small torrent]

it's hard to beat vim motions too for handling text in general

[bronze dragon]

CodeWars is good for small exercises

[ember quest]

im gonna keep telling everyone to do aoc

[hybrid nebula]

Notepad++ has syntax highlighting and even some documentation for builtins

[hybrid nebula]

I'm telling everyone to do Advent(2)

[frank sinew]

im going and search whats that

[ember quest]

thanks i hate it

[spice hill]

For Python, that's probably going to be dwarfed by the language server startup time (if you're using one)

[oblique spindle]

agreed I've 50 extensions in vscode and I feel they're too less 🤣

[ember quest]

well we're compared it with notepad++

notepad++ doesnt have such weakness (lsp)

[frank sinew]

do any of you have participated in offline hackathons?

[hybrid nebula]

I got banned from that (and later unbanned) because I did a 1st kyu excercise right after creating my account

[oblique spindle]

Imagine there was a extension which has all snippets ever known to man. idk why I've to download seperate for html, css, js , C, Python and maybe someone made a Django snippets extension

[hybrid nebula]

snippets?

[oblique spindle]

basically autocomplete for syntax (small blocks of code)

[eager smelt]

<200ms startup with most plugins lazy-loaded (LSP server not loaded)
<450ms with a slightly large (~3k sloc) Python file loaded + LSP server loaded

not bad

[hybrid nebula]

We should all use GNU ed

[hybrid nebula]

I once made ed with support for extensions

[spice hill]

pyright will definitely take a while to load once your workspace (not just file) goes beyond 10k lines or so

[eager smelt]

I'm using ty

[spice hill]

maybe syntax highlighting will still work

Ah, Todo based language server

[eager smelt]

real

and also ruff, forgot about that

[oblique spindle]

    
    }``` this is a snippet for c you get this immediately as soon as you write `for`

[spice hill]

It's probably usable if you don't use generics a lot

Do people actually find those snippets useful?

[eager smelt]

probably some did

[small torrent]

How far has ty and zuban come ?

[oblique spindle]

I'm just lazy

[eager smelt]

I like snippets

[spice hill]

Actually, I do use the html:5 snippet in VSCode

[oblique spindle]

closing the brackets , etc

[eager smelt]

ty released their first beta version
not sure about zuban

[hybrid nebula]

can't you just... type that?

[oblique spindle]

if I'm calling .split I probably want it called . imagine forgetting () and fixing it

[velvet hull]

Yo can I ask if participating in hackathons is worth?

[eager smelt]

I remember when emmet was the thing

[hybrid nebula]

this is literally 7 characters

[oblique spindle]

laziness, productivity.

[eternal ridge]

does anyone in here know how to add python to path becaue why are there a whole bunch on ways to download that thing

[hybrid nebula]

I'd spend more time moving my cursor around than just for(int i = 0; i < 255; i++) { code(); }

[eternal ridge]

like 200 ways to download python and the advice on youtube is straight garbage

[jaunty dome]

whats the use of termux

[sand jewel]

Can code

[jaunty dome]

I have been using it since 2024 for editing and download streams

[jaunty dome]

any language?

[ember quest]

cuz theres a bunch of ways to download everything

[oblique spindle]

if you're on windows you can check the button add python to path during installation

[ember quest]

prolly just get your package manager to do it if youre comfortable with that

[sand jewel]

I am use python

[ember quest]

or else get the installer...

[cinder steeple]

need some views thx

[jaunty dome]

someone in this server sent me a tutorial for installation of python in termux

[swift sandal]

Guys! how did you improve your logic in Python? I practice but still feel stuck uhh Any advice???

[oblique spindle]

do people like getting banned doing promotion even though server says to not do it?

[sand jewel]

Pkg python pip-install

[jaunty dome]

thats it?

[small torrent]

google is your friend :>)

[jaunty dome]

now we can write codes?

[oblique spindle]

download the installer it's very good

[cinder steeple]

promotion?

[jaunty dome]

but personal experience is better

[swift sandal]

Jeez ignored..

[sand jewel]

Well everyone feels this just practice more

[ember quest]

you will never get to a point where you like your code

[oblique spindle]

The only answer is practice

[ember quest]

its just the way life is

but if your code is shit then yes practice

[jaunty dome]

ok

[autumn forge]

well, you might, but then you'll come back some time later and wonder why you ever liked it

[ember quest]

well in general its practice too but the difference is that there isnt a problem there

[swift sandal]

Like what?? I do this every time everyday

[ember quest]

yeah pretty much

[ember quest]

write code

thats it

[sand jewel]

Then you can run python on termux

[bronze dragon]

what do you practice?

[ember quest]

and yeah ill never stop telling people to do #advent-of-code

cuz being able to see what other people came up with is hella fun

[swift sandal]

😭Uhh

[sand jewel]

Be patient (:

[ember quest]

yeah the only way to practice your art is to practice your art

[swift sandal]

If else, loops and def..

[eternal ridge]

Yeah but there isn’t at the level python like shits fucking horrendous like honestly

[small torrent]

like the one I did 🤣

[ember quest]

try to write less shit code i guess

[jaunty dome]

it started

[ember quest]

you can post code here in help channels and ask for reviews

[jaunty dome]

I thought we can only use ffmpeg in termux

[bronze dragon]

no, like, how do you practice them? what problems do you solve?

[swift sandal]

Yeah this is good tipp

[eternal ridge]

I only see install python and then it just installs

[swift sandal]

I search it on Google or chatgpt. Or sometimes in leetcode.

[ember quest]

oh youre the million if statements guy

[jaunty dome]

any experience python coder here?

[ember quest]

are there any python coders in the python server

[bronze dragon]

what's an example of a problem you couldn't understand?

[ember quest]

good question

[swift sandal]

Logic! I'm not getting it at all

[bronze dragon]

no, a specific problem

[ember quest]

well maybe dont use gpt

thats always solid advice

[swift sandal]

Okay wait I'll show you

[jaunty dome]

can you tell me how do you learn python so good?

[rancid quail]

practice?

[ember quest]

[jaunty dome]

😭😭

[rancid quail]

there's no cheat code bro

[jaunty dome]

How to do that?

[rancid quail]

just practice and time

[jaunty dome]

how to practice??

[rancid quail]

do projects to solve problems you have or just make things find interesting

[ember quest]

write progressively less shit code until its good code

[half pewter]

I can suggest some beginner projects if you're looking for ideas

[jaunty dome]

oh......

[sand jewel]

Bruh

[jaunty dome]

How can I keep learning, and is there any good free course?

[rancid quail]

do you know python syntax already

[swift sandal]

Given a string, find the first non-repeating character.
Find the missing number from 1 to N when one number is missing in the list.
Move all zeros in a list to the end while maintaining the order of other elements.
Implement your own min() function logically without using min().
Check if a sentence is a pangram (contains all letters a to z).
Given a matrix, print its elements in spiral order.
Implement binary search logically without built-in functions.

(yesterday chatgpt give me this problems)

[jaunty dome]

yesss

I do

but I'm not professional

[rancid quail]

well then, go make a discord bot or whatever and you'll learn a lot more than just being stuck in tutorial hell

[bronze dragon]

were you able to solve any of them?

[azure spear]

Hello, how or where to start if I still don't quite know the Python syntax? I'm also willing to learn how to use this programming language.

[rancid quail]

I'm not really in the Python ecosystem, does anyone have suggestions?

[jaunty dome]

ok

[eternal ridge]

Man Icl this discord is so buns

[jaunty dome]

Discord bot!!! I don't to how to make that

[swift sandal]

Nah 😭

[bleak moth]

Yo! New CoreDumped video on the GIL just dropped.

[bronze dragon]

see this pinned message #python-discussion message

[bronze dragon]

not even the min() one?

[ember quest]

hell yes

[rancid quail]

I'm actually watching it right now 😭

[jaunty dome]

actually I'm 13, but wanted to learn python so hardddddddddd

[ember quest]

min one is relatively annoying unless you can use sort

[bleak moth]

Same!

[bronze dragon]

not really

[rancid quail]

I made my own bot around your age you can do it

[ember quest]

i said relatively

[bleak moth]

I started programming in BASIC at your age.

[oblique spindle]

._. seriously? I could do it in 2 lines

[dry pike]

you don't have to sort

[bleak moth]

And started learning C++

[rancid quail]

boomer?

[jaunty dome]

I've also

[bleak moth]

Millennial

[ember quest]

i know you dont

[bleak moth]

I'm 37

[ember quest]

think of it from a beginners perspective

[jaunty dome]

I can make a working calculator

😅

[rancid quail]

you don't need to be that specific 😭

[swift sandal]

NO.. I jus want a mentor/frnd who can help me get better at Python

[bleak moth]

😄

[azure spear]

Wow, that message looks pretty loaded with useful information. Thanks.

[bleak moth]

Right on!

[jaunty dome]

married?

[rancid quail]

read his profile bro

[jaunty dome]

[bleak moth]

Divorced... but we're civil and basically friends. Plus, we have a son together

[bronze dragon]

well, relative to what? I think it's a perfectly fine exercise in programmatic thinking for a beginner. it's a simple task, and they already know how to solve it instinctively, they just need to be able to turn it into a series of steps.

[bleak moth]

He's playing XBox right now

[ember quest]

relative to some of the rest

[jaunty dome]

what type of bot should I made

[bronze dragon]

for you I would suggest reading a book or a course for learning Python. see the pinned message I linked above.

[dry pike]

||the b isn't supposed to be capitalized in Xbox||

[bleak moth]

Is that what you want to do? What do you want to make?

[bleak moth]

😛

[steel whale]

make a simple high-low game that uses a discord bot as its frontend

[ember quest]

i think its harder than the pangram one

unless you dont know enough data structures

[swift sandal]

Where's the pin message??

[oblique spindle]

well I remember implementing max then realizing max exists , same with maps
like many comprehensions still now are like [int(i) for i in list1]

[rancid quail]

||let's also go with MacOS and IPhone||

[steel whale]

he's trying to avoid copyright©

[bronze dragon]

#python-discussion message

[celest tendon]

|| 😭 ||

[dry pike]

well, that actually makes a list instead of an iterator

[swift sandal]

Worth it na?

[azure spear]

Discord already has a ton of bots out there. If it isn't a bot for playing mini-games and stuff like that, then I don't know. But apart from Discord bots and videogames, for what else can I use Python?

[celest tendon]

I guess u also bought Infinite Swril Using Orbs

[spice hill]

?

[bronze dragon]

really? to solve the pangram one sanely you need either a dictionary, or if not that then a list where you map character codes to indices (which further needs you to know about ord...)
meanwhile you can create min using one for loop, one variable, and one if condition.

[oblique spindle]

yes , I wouldn't say I completed quests using legitimate methods.

[ember quest]

||len(set())||?

[bleak moth]

Python Crash Course by Eric Matthes is what allowed me to learn the language

[bronze dragon]

think about it from a beginner's perspective

[bleak moth]

Then again, I was already a programmer when I read that

[ember quest]

sets arent high tech tho

[bleak moth]

I'm not sure how easy it would make things for a beginner.

[bronze dragon]

it's not about how much of a cool oneliner you can make it with all your knowledge of Python, but how hard it would be for a beginner to solve

[ember quest]

well if we discount the existence of data structures then yeah min is easiest

[celest tendon]

Yeah I also Know the inserting Script method ,but in my system the Embeded Backcode dosent open (crt +shift+U ,etc.)

[jaunty dome]

Is it possible to make bot in Phone 📱

[swift sandal]

Is it worth reading a book..? istead of only working hard.. can we work smart by using AI to understand Python?? Uhh I. Might be wrong

[bronze dragon]

that's kind of the point, though
if you know what a set is, and can think about how it would be useful here, you're already above the level of thinking needed to implement min

[azure spear]

I only know how to write a couple CSS blocks, pretty much it 🫠 .

[rancid quail]

android?

[ember quest]

hmm okay

[jaunty dome]

yup

[spice hill]

I would recommend human-generated resources if you want to learn how to program

[bronze dragon]

clearly using AI isn't working for you, so time to change tracks

[rancid quail]

then you can maybe jail break and get to the linux layer and then write a python from therem good luck coding with such small screen tho

[swift sandal]

I have to try this

[swift sandal]

Exactly 😭😭

[wise yarrow]

binary search is a decent exercise tho

a few surprisingly subtle details

[jaunty dome]

😭😭😭

[oblique spindle]

"work smart with AI" doesn't work

[rancid quail]

I guess you can work smart with AI after you already know how to be smart

[spice hill]

Using an LLM could theoretically be smart if it has a lot of training data on something that doesn't have thousands of good comprehensive books/guides written by humans already

[bleak moth]

That's programming. It's declarative programming but that's still a type of programming. That's a good start!

[oblique spindle]

AI is only good for repetitive tasks , and still you'll have to fix stuff or just keep prompting

[bleak moth]

Congratulations @azure spear, You're a programmer! 🙂

[azure spear]

Buy and Ipad/Tablet, release it's "full potential", and attach a keyboard to it and voila, you have a laptop prototype for half the price of a real one. 😎

[swift sandal]

Fck it. I'm in. Thank you.. @bronze dragon I appreciate your help. GN

[bleak moth]

I can get a thinkpad on Amazon for 300ish bucks, install Linux, and boom, laptop for less than an iPad

[spice hill]

ipad for half the price of a laptop? that's new

[oblique spindle]

CSS feels annoying to me ngl , https://flexboxfroggy.com/ this is an interesting css game ngl

[azure spear]

Nah, but like, that's nothing compared to a real programmer. CSS blocks is not a big deal.

[bleak moth]

CSS Grid really made things easy.

[spice hill]

laptops don't have the extreme size and weight constraints of tablets, so it's going to be cheaper for the same performance

(and probably more repairable)

[azure spear]

You're right, I should have specified: Android tablets.

[oblique spindle]

everyone told me to use flexbox as it's clearly better and I never learnt grids

[bleak moth]

You write code in an editor, and a program interprets that code into a result. That's programming

[oblique spindle]

._.

[fathom pasture]

what is standard way of making interface(OOP) in python? or is there better alternative, my usecase is that I have a file which classes which are exposed for normal use and there are 2 other which implements those classes for unix and windows differently

[cobalt flax]

Apparently for else statements are outdated

Idk why they work fine to me

[bronze dragon]

said who? they're niche for sure, but not outdated

[cobalt flax]

ok

[oblique spindle]

I've never heard that they're useful

[bleak moth]

I saw a talk on grid, and that was a gamechanger back when I started web programming.

[rancid quail]

???

[cobalt flax]

Cuz i sent my code here and then someone was like "this is the first time i've seen someone use for else unironically"

[rancid quail]

guys I think the whole of programming might be oudated ngl

[oblique spindle]

rare != outdated

[cobalt flax]

oh ok

[cerulean ravine]

for/else is a good thing.

[cobalt flax]

then ima keep usijg em ig

[fathom pasture]

or do I just use a __init__.py which exposes those classes based on the os

[bronze dragon]

I've only had to use it a small handful of times so far

[deep temple]

what is the differene between .+ and ..+ in regex?

[azure spear]

Bruh, that's like saying "building a dirt block house in Minecraft, makes you a Minecraft player".

[bronze dragon]

but it's cool when you can find an application

[cerulean ravine]

..+ will match 2 or more characters. I haven't seen people use that.

[cobalt flax]

Like im p sure you can replace every situation with it by just adding code after the loop

[spice hill]

What do you need them for? Can you show the code maybe?
You don't have to create some sort of entity to have polymorphism in python:

class Cat:
    def speak(self): print("meow")
class Duck:
    def speak(self): print("quack")

def process_animals(animals):
    for animal in animals: animal.speak()

process_animals([Cat(), Cat(), Duck()])  # no need to unify Cat and Duck under some interface or base class

[cerulean ravine]

..+ is just . followed by .+, it's not special

[cobalt flax]

But like whatever it looks fun

I want my code to look colorful

[bleak moth]

Imagine doing this:

grid: "left-pane middle-pane right-pane",
      "left-pane bottom-pane bottom-pane";

and getting a left pane that goes all the way down the screen, a bottom pane that extends from the right of the left pane going all the way to the right, and above that a middle pane and a right pane

It's not exact code, but that's the idea

And it's awesome

[deep temple]

what do you mean by 'match' even david malan used it but idk what it means

[spice hill]

I would be super confused if I saw that tbh. I'd think it's some special thing, like how x+? is different from (?:x+)?.

[spice hill]

..+ means .{2,}

[bleak moth]

No more tables, no more flexboxes, document content and layout are completely separated

[bronze dragon]

. matches one character
+ means match the previous thing one or more times
so .+ means "at least one character"
and ..+ means "at least two characters" (the first is required by the first ., and the second by the .+)

[bleak moth]

Which means that you can use media queries to completely change the layout

[rancid quail]

maybe use reply so it's easier to track the conversations

[deep temple]

no like in english terms

[deep temple]

ah i see

[bleak moth]

The conversation is going too fast to not use them I see

Normally that works fine

The slowmode timer isn't helping

[fathom pasture]

my usecase is something like this:
exposed.py

class IMyClass:
    def a(self, x: int, y: str) -> float: pass
    def b(self, x: int, z: float) -> float: pass

unix.py

class MyClass(IMyClass):
    def a(self, x: int, y: str) -> float: # impl for unix
    def b(self, x: int, z: float) -> float: # impl for unix

win32.py

class MyClass(IMyClass):
    def a(self, x: int, y: str) -> float: # impl for win32
    def b(self, x: int, z: float) -> float: # impl for win32

[bronze dragon]

regex is used to match patterns in strings. abc matches the string abc. there are special symbols like . which means "any character", so something like a.c would match abc, and aac, and axc, and whatever else fits the pattern, you get the idea

[deep temple]

ya i get it now thanks

[fathom pasture]

I am now thinking that it would indeed be useless in python

[bleak moth]

Why's that?

[spice hill]

If you want this for typing purposes, use either abc.ABC or typing.Protocol. Note that this class violates typing expectations quite severely:

class IMyClass:
    def a(self, x: int, y: str) -> float: pass
    def b(self, x: int, z: float) -> float: pass 
``` because `a()` and `b()` return `None` while being annotated as returning `float`. A type checker will complain about that

[fathom pasture]

I can just export the classes implementation based on the os via __init__.py
something like:

import os
if os.name=='nt':
    from .win32 import *
else:
    from .unix import *```

and since my current usecase doesn't require that strictness I think I can go without it

[bleak moth]

You're finding that "YAGNI"

(You Aint Gonna Need It)

[fathom pasture]

I am already overengineering this thing(intentionally)

[bleak moth]

Don't shave the yaks

[fathom pasture]

now what is yaks

[spice hill]

I think that's fine. (though I would not use *, I'd list things I want imported explicitly)

Just make sure both classes are accessible in some way on any OS. For example, I can mention pathlib.WindowsPath on Linux, even if pathlib.Path does some auto-detection

[fathom pasture]

yeah but I just used it for example... too lazy to type

[deep temple]

why does just a plain * not work in regex?

[bleak moth]

I got it from a book called "The Productive Programmer" which is an excellent book every programmer should read, but that aside, it's basically a perceived dependency chain. "Well, before I can do that I need to do this, and before I do that I need to do this, and before I do that, I need a Yak, but before I can use the Yak, I have to shave it...."

[deep temple]

why .*?

[steel whale]

i just code and import on the go, if i need something then it's lazily imported by me (humanly)

[bleak moth]

You endevored to milk the cows and somehow you're shaving a yak instead

[oblique spindle]

what's the difference btw sys.stdin and input?

[autumn forge]

I think we need a ducky_yak emoji

[rancid quail]

earthquakeee

[cerulean ravine]

star means, zero or more of a thing. You have to specify the thing. in .* the thing is "any single character".

[spice hill]

Because you can specify what pattern you want to repeat. For example a* means "a repeated zero or more times".

[fathom pasture]

lol

true though

[bleak moth]

a bald yak with a baffled look on its face.

[deep temple]

ah

[fathom pasture]

input is abstraction for reading from stdin

[deep temple]

oh i get it now but how does []* work?

[steel whale]

input() is more of a wrapper for sys.stdin

[spice hill]

[a-z]* is a composition of two features: "character sets" ([a-z]) and "repeating a pattern 0 or more times" (*)

[steel whale]

and stdin has binary support thru .buffer

[autumn forge]

sys.stdin is a file-like object and input is a function

[oblique spindle]

so why I've been told use sys.stdin.readline() instead of input() , how much is the performance difference?

[steel whale]

due to the low-level access, mere tenths of a millisecond

[cerulean ravine]

i wouldn't recommend sys.stdin, who recommended it?

[deep temple]

so what does it do exactly?

[oblique spindle]

oh i was reading performance improvers for python blog in codeforces that's where it was recommended

[cerulean ravine]

ok, that makes no sense at all.

[unborn lagoon]

for inputs?

[autumn forge]

negligible, probably. Note that they do slightly different things (readline doesn't strip the newline character)```pycon

import sys
sys.stdin.readline()
10
'10\n'
input()
10
'10'

[steel whale]

(thru pipes)

[spice hill]

[a-z]* means "zero or more characters, each of which is a, b, c, ..., z". For example, [a-z]* matches "", "abc", "hello", but not "23" and not "has space"

[fathom pasture]

1 microsecond on my machine $ python -m timeit 'import sys,io;sys.stdin=io.StringIO("abc\n"*100)' 'input()' 100000 loops, best of 5: 3.58 usec per loop $ python -m timeit 'import sys,io;sys.stdin=io.StringIO("abc\n"*100)' 'sys.stdin.readline()' 100000 loops, best of 5: 2.47 usec per loop(3.10.19)

[cerulean ravine]

i'm not even sure readline would be faster, since sys.stdin.readline has two attribute lookups.

[oblique spindle]

meh

I hate myself

[bronze dragon]

main difference IMO is that input is built for interactive usage - it supports printing a prompt before taking input
if you need to like read all of stdin for a CLI program, then I would consider messing with sys.stdin

[cerulean ravine]

idk what's going on, but that seems like the wrong conclusion

[civic frigate]

does anyone know cheap vps hoster?

[deep temple]

so [a-z]+ c matches the thiings u told with an addition of an exclusion ""

[spice hill]

yes

[oblique spindle]

yea i got it from a comment on the blog not the actual blog

I went back to that page and saw

[deep temple]

ok thx

[oblique spindle]

Idk why I'm reading 7 year ago posts on performance

[bronze dragon]

competitive programming is a strange place anyway, you might want to optimize things there that would be completely counterproductive in a real software project

[fathom pasture]

that was my vm so I also did on my main machine and its .6 microsecond```
E:\co> python -m timeit 'import sys,io;sys.stdin=io.StringIO("abc\n"*100)' 'input()'
200000 loops, best of 5: 1.31 usec per loop
E:\co> python -m timeit 'import sys,io;sys.stdin=io.StringIO("abc\n"*100)' 'sys.stdin.readline()'
500000 loops, best of 5: 747 nsec per loop

[oblique spindle]

It was a 7 year old blog now even I'm not sure

I hope they don't think my submission is AI 🤣

AI wouldn't even be that dumb to use sys.stdin

Too much stress made me believe rumours

[bleak moth]

So... check out #ot0-psvm’s-eternal-disapproval in 30 seconds

[tame hinge]

Ovh, hetzner

[bronze dragon]

idk if I had to read all of stdin I think I would unironically use sys.stdin

[fathom pasture]

its rare cases when you are constrained by microseconds like in competetive programming, for fast IO you want to avoid all abstractions

[bronze dragon]

As opposed to interactive usage

[deep temple]

also what does ^$ do in regex , when i look up its use in the documentation I get incomprehensible info

[spice hill]

https://docs.python.org/3/library/re.html

`^`
    (Caret.) Matches the start of the string, and in MULTILINE mode also matches immediately after each newline.

`$`
    Matches the end of the string or just before the newline at the end of the string, and in MULTILINE mode also matches before a newline. foo matches both ‘foo’ and ‘foobar’, while the regular expression foo$ matches only ‘foo’. More interestingly, searching for foo.$ in 'foo1\nfoo2\n' matches ‘foo2’ normally, but ‘foo1’ in MULTILINE mode; searching for a single $ in 'foo\n' will find two (empty) matches: one just before the newline, and one at the end of the string.
``` what parts are unclear?

[tranquil tinsel]

^ is start of a string. $ is end of a string.

[oblique spindle]

nah 2s is the limit , there's nothing written to have fastest solution it's like aoc but harder questions (basically score = no of problems solved and tiebreakers is the total time from the start)

[bronze dragon]

which reminds me
https://docs.python.org/3/library/fileinput.html

[fathom pasture]

I was telling when you would use sys.stdin over input for reading single line

[oblique spindle]

yeah i understand

[fathom pasture]

also you would use it when you want ansi chars to work on older versions of windows without any 3rd party lib...... you would intercept to convert ansi char to win api calls

[deep temple]

but how does this prevent one from writing more than one word

[deep temple]

yea but y is it needed

[steel whale]

~ yes "test line" | head -n 1000000 > test.txt
~ cat test.txt | python3 bench_input.py
input(): Read 1000000 lines in 4.3328 seconds
~ cat test.txt | python3 bench_stdin.py
sys.stdin: Read 1000000 lines in 0.5214 seconds```

[deep temple]

wont it work normally?

[tranquil tinsel]

Write tests and confirm it is needed. They might not be.

[deep temple]

ok

[fathom pasture]

#python-discussion message #python-discussion message ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[steel whale]

i forgot to mention that this is on wsl on a 14yo laptop that's still running windows 10

[oblique spindle]

lets change the topic I already accepted I'm dumb

🤣

[fathom pasture]

also what version of python is this

and yeah the difference will be more noticeable on slower machines

[steel whale]

in competitive programming, try to use the system-native input/output files (or file descriptors) as much as you can

[fathom pasture]

no, I consider it a genuine question for beginner

[spice hill]

It doesn't

[celest tendon]

😭

[spice hill]

What's the context? Are you reading some resource that you have questions about?

[steel whale]

3.13.8

[bronze dragon]

did you use .readline or .read

[steel whale]

i used sys.stdin as mentioned originally, so pipes

[bronze dragon]

I'm asking what method of sys.stdin you used

[oblique spindle]

he's talking about sys.stdin.read() or sys.stdin.readline()

[bronze dragon]

I expect reading the entire thing in one go will be much faster than reading line-by-line

[fathom pasture]

we were orginally comparing sys.stdin.readline vs input

[steel whale]

#!/usr/bin/env python3
import sys
import time
start = time.time()
count = 0
for line in sys.stdin:
    count += 1
end = time.time()
print(f"sys.stdin: Read {count} lines in {end - start:.4f} seconds")```

[shrewd pine]

we have perl at home

[steel whale]

im lagging omfg

[spice hill]

^ and $ are typically used when you're passing a regex to some generic program that always uses re.search or the equivalent.

Or if you want to only conditionally require that something is at the start. For example, apple|banana$|cherry will find apple in I like apples, cherry in I have a cherry in my pocket, and I am a banana. But it will not match I like bananas because banana is not followed by the end of the string

Or if you're using multiline mode (honestly, not a fan of this flag changing how fundamental things behave).

[deep temple]

like in the cs50 vid , david made a code that takes an email as an input , and he use ^$ to prevent people to type in sentences like "my email is [e-mail]" instead of the usual "[e-mail]"

[spice hill]

Can you link to the video?

[gilded tide]

any one of u guys do leetcode? need help in the help sec, thanks

[dusky crag]

what are the function() -> None text called?

[spice hill]

function annotations

[bronze dragon]

type hints

[deep temple]

sure https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hy3sd9MOAcc the part is at 33:00

[fathom pasture]

.... thats not what we were really comparing also, use time.perf_counter when benchmarking

[fathom pasture]

return annotation

[shrewd pine]

having ^...$ forces a match to be the whole string, yeah

[spice hill]

!e
There's an annoying caveat

import re
print(re.search(r"^[a-z]*$", "banana\n"))

[edgy kraken]

:white_check_mark: Your 3.14 eval job has completed with return code 0.

<re.Match object; span=(0, 6), match='banana'>

[spice hill]

which I just learned about

[deep temple]

whole string meaning in this case just a word?

[shrewd pine]

it's end of line, yeah

though I think that's a setting

[gaunt badge]

re.MULTILINE?

[spice hill]

You're thinking of MULTILINE. The default is that the multiline mode is not used.
outside of MULTILINE, $ matches the end of the string or just before final \n of the string.

That's some hot spaghetti if you ask me.

[shrewd pine]

oh, is that the behavior?

eww

[gaunt badge]

I'm always confused by re.match, which implies a ^, but not a $.

[craggy trench]

i think you can also use \A...\Z for absolute start and end

[shrewd pine]

not word, the string as a whole (ignoring the \n shenanigans)

[shrewd pine]

it's a prefix match, yeah

because why have obvious names

when an ambiguous ones does the job

[deep temple]

it prevents whitespace?

[shrewd pine]

no?

[spice hill]

re.search performs "substring search". If the pattern is banana, it will find a match inside apple banana cherry.
If you use ^apple as the pattern, apple will be found. But if you use ^banana as the pattern, it will not be found, because it's not at the start of the string

The correct solution in this case is to use re.fullmatch instead of re.search which the lecturer introduces later in the lecture.

[gaunt badge]

There's also fullmatch, which has strong mysql_real_escape_string energy

[shrewd pine]

I don't mind fullmatch as a name

[spice hill]

Oh yeah, re.match is such a misnomer

it's almost never what you want

should've been called prefix_match or something like that

[shrewd pine]

but re.match really should be re.prefixmatch

[gaunt badge]

Yeah

[shrewd pine]

don't be silly and use underscores

[spice hill]

right, we use smashedtogethercase in this house

[deep temple]

ahh i see so it ignores the rest of the part of the string and only focuses on the part that has the pattern , right?

[spice hill]

Here's a nuclear footgun btw: in OpenAPI, the pattern field implies substring search. So if you specify [0-9]+ for a pattern, it means that there's at least one digit somewhere in the string. 99% of the time you have to wrap the whole thing in \A...\Z. No clue why.
Especially dangerous if you do code generation based on OpenAPI.

[civic frigate]

thx

[tame hinge]

No problem

[spice hill]

Or, I would wrap the whole thing in ^..$, before I knew of the $ spaghetti

[shrewd pine]

fun thing that happened at work, I saw "" being used as a regex in a functional test that does partial regex matching

someone added validation on the provided regex that it should be non-empty

this broke a bunch of automated processes because these tests started erroring out

I can't blame the people adding the validation

any sensible expectation would have a non-empty regex, rather than something that's just always true

the check was also named something like RegexEmpty which does not fill me with confidence

[pure orbit]

my dislike for how arcane regexes are has come to a middle

see also: SQL syntax; something about the idea of composing a program in terms of what you want instead of how it gets done just fundamentally disagrees with my brain

[spice hill]

I think the idea of regexes is great, but there are many problems with the existing implementation[s]

[deep temple]

Will AI become advanced enough to replace coders in the future?

[harsh anchor]

maybe

[deep temple]

how do I avoid it then

like getting replaced

[harsh anchor]

become even more advanced (go even further beyond)

[deep temple]

learn how to build AI models?

[deep temple]

ok

[gaunt badge]

WTF. I need to check something when I come back from vacation...

[spice hill]

While you're frantically updating all your YAMLs, also replace \d with [0-9] 😉

[gaunt badge]

That I already do.

[spice hill]

I was able to figure out that a particular service was written in Go because it showed \d as part of a regex but rejected a non-ASCII digit

(random trivia)

what I meant to say is, treat regexes as source code because they are source code

[pure orbit]

when I write regexes I try to split them into multiple lines with comments

[spice hill]

I think that's a good idea

(the re.VERBOSE thing)

[cerulean ravine]

I recently wanted to use re.VERBOSE, but couldn't because the pattern was going to be interpolated later into a larger pattern 🙁

[spice hill]

(?x:)

https://docs.python.org/3/library/re.html the (?aiLmsux-imsx:...) thing

[cerulean ravine]

yes, but that has to be the first thing in the pattern.

[tidal totem]

Anyone here good at langchain?

[cerulean ravine]

oh, maybe with the colon... hmm.

[spice hill]

!e

import re

pat = re.compile("foo|bar|(?x:b a n a n a)")
print(pat.fullmatch("banana"))

[edgy kraken]

:white_check_mark: Your 3.14 eval job has completed with return code 0.

<re.Match object; span=(0, 6), match='banana'>

[spice hill]

works for me

[cerulean ravine]

i didn't try with a colon

[glacial leaf]

can i overwrite another module's function

[steady rain]

yes

[glacial leaf]

amazing

[formal lintel]

hello python

[cerulean ravine]

thanks!

[formal lintel]

why is server icon blue?

why no fancy color?a

[dry pike]

because there are no fancy things going on

[formal lintel]

arent you guys celebrating christman or new year

[proud escarp]

whoa whats 3.14j

[spice hill]

That's another annoying issue with regex sigils. You can swap two characters and break everything. I frequently write ?!< instead of ?<!

[pure orbit]

amazing but also yikes if you do that for real

[glacial leaf]

i discovered that for named groups, python has to have the python regex exclusive thing

[glacial leaf]

its for my own code

maybe i could make my code better in order to not do this lolz

[pure orbit]

I’ve seen too many Python crimes

[glacial leaf]

Ok.

[spice hill]

the monkey is very exhausted

have mercy

I think monkey-patching for tests is a pretty common thing in Python. Because dependency injection is a pretty foreign concept and many people don't seem to like it

[glacial leaf]

i think im just going to add an option to which stream the error handler module should write to

[bronze dragon]

we had christmas decorations from the 1st to 25th

[glacial leaf]

i celebrated christmas on the 24th, for no reason i have to tell you guys

[cerulean ravine]

that is dependency injection, and is often a good idea.

[glacial leaf]

the default is going to be its normal behaviour

[cerulean ravine]

yes, classic dependency injection

I just had a fix accepted to typeshed! 🙂

[spice hill]

I have a fix to typeshed stuck for months 😩 (since oct 1)

[eager smelt]

duality of open source

[charred python]

Typeshed fixed me.

[spice hill]

it is admittedly a bit more complex

[glacial leaf]

"I can fix her"

[formal lintel]

oh

m late then

[cerulean ravine]

i have to admit i was surprised when it was merged in under 30 minutes: https://github.com/python/typeshed/pull/15182

[spice hill]

maybe because you're a core dev and not some random guy with default github avatar

[glacial leaf]

i feel personally attacked

[cerulean ravine]

i hope that is not the reason.

[spice hill]

I don't mean that as throwing shade or anything

there are finite maintainer resources and many open PRs

[glacial leaf]

i should change my github avatar

[spice hill]

If I had PRs from gvanrossum and bananaenjoyer69000 I'd review Guido's PR first

[glacial leaf]

69420*

why is webp so damn unsupported

[cerulean ravine]

where is it unsupported?

[glacial leaf]

i feel like literally everywhere, like now when i tried uploading a new github avatar

[eager smelt]

WebP is unsupported, what?

[unborn lagoon]

it's not as supported as say, PNG or JPG, but webp support has definitely improved

[spice hill]

i did it the other way around, importing my github avatar to discord

[glacial leaf]

even the image editor tools on windows dont support webp

[glacial leaf]

what about GDOlivercoding 🥺

[spice hill]

at first I was confused what liver coding is

[glacial leaf]

😭

[spice hill]

is that when you have a beer while programming

[frank sinew]

best youtube video which provide 5 star quality pyhton tutorials like for oops

[glacial leaf]

no!

[cerulean ravine]

thanks! https://github.com/coveragepy/coveragepy/commit/80fb80826f3bd8953018d4a4a134a7fc42643784

[oblique spindle]

guys why x//y is a float and not an int? because it should always be an int then why is it treated as a float?

[eager smelt]

what is x? what is y?

[oblique spindle]

I can understand about x/y that it sometimes returns a non integer hence it is assumed as a float

[eager smelt]

show code

[cerulean ravine]

x//y is always a integral value, but if x or y is a float, the answer is a float.

[harsh swallow]

Then it's always an integer.
// will only be a float when either side is a float.

[oblique spindle]

oh nvm*

x was float

[eager smelt]

[oblique spindle]

but still I'm confused shouldn't it still always be a int?

[harsh swallow]

And this is ALWAYS a float. Even when ints are perfectly divisible. Like 2/1 gives 2.0

[glacial leaf]

back in the day int / int was floordiv

[cerulean ravine]

yes, python 3 changed that.

[glacial leaf]

future division

[dry pike]

// is floordiv, not "intdiv"

[harsh swallow]

And why is that? When / is always an int, why would another form of division (//) be a float?

[oblique spindle]

yeah ik , I was just annoyed I use //1 to change it to int and it didn't work

[dry pike]

that's what int(x) is for

[harsh swallow]

Uh, just int(stuff here)... Or math.floor or math.ceil

[glacial leaf]

passing a variable into a function and then accessing it after gives me rust vibes

[oblique spindle]

I'm saying if 2.5//integer will always ne integer

[glacial leaf]

&mut ahh

[vale pine]

Command not found

Command "mut" is not found

[dry pike]

?

[oblique spindle]

yeah ik I was saying it felt weird because I assumed floordiv always give integer

[spice hill]

damn, Python functions have arguments, that's just like rust

[harsh swallow]

!d float.is_integer only I this form it "is" integer, but not as type

[edgy kraken]

float.is\_integer

float.is_integer()```
Return `True` if the float instance is finite with integral value, and `False` otherwise:

```py
>>> (-2.0).is_integer()
True
>>> (3.2).is_integer()
False

[dry pike]

generally, if one of the operands is a float, then the result is a float

[quartz fulcrum]

is that a hat you are wearing?

[spice hill]

that's called an "out parameter" and admittedly it's not very common in Python

[dry pike]

yes a toque/beanie

[oblique spindle]

learnt something new today

[glacial leaf]

yeah, thats because you have to edit its internal state rather than itself

[merry citrus]

guys can u tell me how is my code as an beginer

num1=int(input("EnterFirstNumber:"))
num2=int(input("EnterSecondNumber:"))

oper=(input("EnterOperator:"))

if oper=="+":
res=num1+num2
print(f"res={res}")

elif oper=="-":
res=num1-num2
print(f"res={res}")

elif oper=="":
res=num1num2
print(f"res={res}")

elif oper=="/":
res=num1/num2
print(f"res={res}")

elif oper=="%":
res=num1%num2
print(f"res={res}")

[charred tusk]

!code

[edgy kraken]

Formatting code on Discord

Here's how to format Python code on Discord:

```py
print('Hello world!')
```

These are backticks, not quotes. Check this out if you can't find the backtick key.

For long code samples, you can use our pastebin.

[glacial leaf]

its ok

[merry citrus]

ight

[dry pike]

could be better

[jaunty dome]

this is the default code every beginner learns as their first big code🥰

[merry citrus]

hm

[vagrant horizon]

Still water + adrenaline + noradrenaline + hawk tuah + anger issues + balkan parents + english or Spanish + german stare + Balkan rage + jonkler laugh + phonk +Belgian edging + Baltic farting + bulgarian scratching + aggressive slovakian jelqing + polish footjob + indian respect moment those who know + Opponent uses Jamaican Smile + Russian Frown + Finnish wave + Icelandic blink + Thai grin + Hungarian punch + Swiss climb + Argentinian flex + Chilean dance + Peruvian squat + Kenyan grin + Jamaican jump + Russian slide + Filipino stretch + Balkan climb + Greek dash + Egyptian tilt + Vietnamese sit + American hop + Pakistani stomp + Hungarian march + Italian march + Japanese snap + German slide + Irish dash + Brazilian whistle + Turkish flick + French leap + Korean twist + Canadian clap + Indian bow + Nigerian stare + Italian kick + Chinese lean + Scottish grin + Mexican swing + Swedish dash + Moroccan leap + Ukrainian stretch + Danish whistle + Finnish kick + Icelandic jump + Thai clap + Hungarian dash + Swiss stretch + Argentinian whistle + Chilean wink + Peruvian hop + Kenyan sprint + Jamaican whistle + Russian clap + Filipino nod + Balkan bend + Greek run + Egyptian squat + Vietnamese smile + American point + Pakistani twist + Japanese wink + German bow + Irish hop + Brazilian cheer + Turkish skip + French flex

[steady rain]

what?

[vagrant horizon]

those who know

[steady rain]

okay? let's write messages about python that anyone in this channel can engage with

[oblique spindle]

talking about it does math have the upper floor function?
like which rounds up regardless
lower floor + 1 doesn't work on integers and I'm feeling pretty lazy rn

[jaunty dome]

are you a beginner?

[vagrant horizon]

how can i python that message into my website

[merry citrus]

yh

[steady rain]

so you want 4.0 to go to 5.0?

[dry pike]

math.ceil

[spice hill]

math.ceil?

[dry pike]

gonna start calling the ceiling the "upper floor" now

[steady rain]

"upper floor" is an oxymoron

[oblique spindle]

ty , Idk why I couldn't find it , might be too tired to search documentation

[dry pike]

no it isn't

in a building with two stories, the upper floor would be the 2nd story

[steady rain]

except in britain, it would be the 1st story

[dry pike]

britain isn't real

[steady rain]

no, it's the US state that purportedly contains Seattle that isn't real.

[cosmic moat]

Excuse me, I'm trying to find a way to read from a public Google document. Is there a simple way to do that? Or do I have to work with service accounts and such?

[quartz fulcrum]

Is it a bad idea to talk about goals..
i heard that talking about your goals make it difficult to achieve

[steady rain]

I think google docs has an API

[glacial leaf]

why do americans call the ground floor the first floor anyways

[pulsar dragon]

Hi

Guys

[steady rain]

why don't british people do that? why is one or the other the default assumption?

[oblique spindle]

well I was taught GIF and LIF , greatest integer function (floor) or lowest integer function
I was describing the other function because I didn't knew it's exact name

[flat moon]

@woeful lark jsi v rbx ptk_dan61

[stray crest]

You’re telling me in your country it’s not? 😭

not an American btw

[cosmic moat]

I think I found the API guide, but it seems quite involved, including creating a quickstart application. Is there any other way?

[glacial leaf]

what were you stating then

[steady rain]

at least in the US, floor numbering starts at 1. In Britain, and possibly other places, it starts at Ground, and then 1. Neither one is inherently more natural than the other.

[quartz fulcrum]

My all doubts are solved by the GEMINI OR CHATGPT.
Does anyone feel the need to ask for doubts in python discussion channel?

[glacial leaf]

i was referencing the latter

[steady rain]

right, and you asked why americans "call the ground floor the first floor", which presupposes that one is the natural way to do it.

[glacial leaf]

yes

[spice hill]

that doesn't make sense tbh

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_choose_to_go_to_the_Moon

[steady rain]

and I'm saying, neither one is inherently more natural. it's just two different systems.

[quartz fulcrum]

My father told me...do it then speak about it

[glacial leaf]

do indexes start at 0 /j

[unborn lagoon]

Unlike LLMs, humans have a less likely chance to spontaneously hallucinate.

[steady rain]

in programming they do. normies don't care about that.

[quartz fulcrum]

why are you calling it hallucinate..
It is very helpful..and saves a lot of time.

[glacial leaf]

well i dont feel like its necessary to discuss which one is more natural but my personal opinion is that the latter is more rational

[unborn lagoon]

Good thing about humans is Cunningham's law - if you're wrong, two people will spawn and tell you.
LLMs don't want to be wrong, so they'll spout nonsense in the hope of being right.

[steady rain]

"hallucinate" is when an LLM behaves as though something is true, but it is not. it is actually the technical term for that.

[spice hill]

AI is like an overconfident intern. Its output is often wrong in subtle ways

[bronze dragon]

I trust this place more for subtle and obscure topics

[glacial leaf]

i trust any human more than AI because they're not as overconfident and i can prove them wrong

AI just doesn't act like a human and i kinda desire the need to talk to one

[quartz fulcrum]

i mean there is a feedback thread always available if it saying something wrong.
but 95% of time it gives the correct results

specially gemini 3 pro

[spice hill]

For example, I just asked DeepSeek if re.searching a string with the pattern ^[0-9]+$ will ensure that the string only contains ASCII digits. It said yes, but it's wrong, as we recently learned in this channel by reading the documentation.

[quartz fulcrum]

but in last version..
i got slightly wrong results of maths questions...but now they claim to be a PHD level LLM

[cerulean ravine]

many people like talking here. You don't have to if you don't want to.

[glacial leaf]

my favourite is observing how normie-semi normies think about programming

[quartz fulcrum]

hi ned,
i want to talk...it creates connections in mind and world

[steel whale]

you are not a wizard then

[glacial leaf]

https://discord.com/channels/267624335836053506/1454518059636232477 if anyone can help thanks in advance

[spice hill]

And it's not some obscure topic you can only find about by reading old mailing lists, it's literally written in the official documentation. One would hope that these edge cases are exactly what they'd be good at

[cerulean ravine]

ok, then why ask if anyone needs to ask questions here? People ask questions. It's good.

[quartz fulcrum]

we stopped using bicycles for a long distances travel.and started using car or train...we evolve...no?

[cerulean ravine]

i just don't understand the point of your question. People ask questions here because they like talking to people. it builds connections, as you say.

[charred python]

I trust ned more than a robot.

[sand jewel]

And ned trust robot 🤖

[jaunty dome]

146 aqi here

[quartz fulcrum]

yes its true,
But i think human to human talk for a doubt is for high achievers

[cerulean ravine]

many new learners here like talking to people. You like talking to people, why would you wonder why other people like talking to people?

[pastel sluice]

@quartz fulcrum learning how to ask good questions of other people is a skill worth developing, it'll pay big dividends

[dusk adder]

not to sidetrack too much, but i do use bicycles for long distance travel

[jaunty dome]

What are you talking about?

[spice hill]

Here's the prompt btw:
<prompt>
In Python, can this function return True if the string contains something other than ASCII digits?

def is_digits(s: str) -> bool:
    return re.search("^[0-9]+$", s) is not None

</prompt>
I wonder what other LLMs answer to this. DeepSeek is not nearly as advanced as many other models, I think

[charred python]

And another human forcing you to explain yourself leads to revelations.

[quartz fulcrum]

oh

[dusk adder]

wait... what?
can you explain

[fervent matrix]

Chatgpt: ```
Conclusion:
No, the function cannot return True if the string contains anything other than ASCII digits.

Edit: full output https://paste.pythondiscord.com/MKGQ

[spice hill]

is_digits("123\n") is True

[fervent matrix]

Whats the correct answer there?

[dusk adder]

is it wrong? can it return True for things that aren't ascii characters?

[slate wren]

👋

[spice hill]

DeepSeek and ChatGPT say that it can never return True

https://docs.python.org/3/library/re.html

$
Matches the end of the string or just before the newline at the end of the string, and in MULTILINE mode also matches before a newline. foo matches both ‘foo’ and ‘foobar’, while the regular expression foo$ matches only ‘foo’. More interestingly, searching for foo.$ in 'foo1\nfoo2\n' matches ‘foo2’ normally, but ‘foo1’ in MULTILINE mode; searching for a single $ in 'foo\n' will find two (empty) matches: one just before the newline, and one at the end of the string.
This is why in reality, is_digit("123\n") is True.

[dusk adder]

and im guessing "123\nשלום" too?

[spice hill]

No, that doesn't match, because the \n is not at the end

[dusk adder]

ah

$ working up to \n is weird tbh

[spice hill]

yeah, as I said, I only learned this today

very cursed behaviour

[pulsar dragon]

Guys I have problem in my wife

[quartz fulcrum]

wife

[tame hinge]

😭 😭

[bleak moth]

Uhhhh? huh?

[pulsar dragon]

Yes

[bleak moth]

What's the problem?

[pulsar dragon]

Can you talk with me in private

[charred python]

Have you tried turning her off and on again?

[pulsar dragon]

I do that 100 Tim

[tame hinge]

Oo la la

[silver plover]

!warn 1432496795858112566 This is "Python Discussion". Stick to the topic.

[edgy kraken]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied warning to @pulsar dragon.

[fervent matrix]

.topic shall be summoned

[verbal wedge]

**If you could change one thing in Python, what would it be?**

Suggest more topics here!

[spice hill]

rename re.match to re.prefix_match

[dusk adder]

all the camelCase function names strewn about here and there

[fervent matrix]

Time for a pep? Btw, why?

[bronze dragon]

are there any outside logging?

[tame hinge]

Bytecode compilation optimizations, i.e. in lining of functions.

[spice hill]

Do you know what the difference between re.match and re.fullmatch is?

[pulsar dragon]

Ok Print ("hello world")

[spice hill]

It's obviously never going to change, no PEP is needed to figure that out. But yeah.

[harsh anchor]

threading is the other example

[fervent matrix]

Not familiar with regex really, but I'd assume partial match vs full match based on the names

[tame hinge]

unittest.TestCase

[spice hill]

re.match("[0-9]+", "123abc") will match "123"

[charred python]

Every language needs a few inconsistencies. Feels wrong without them.

[bleak moth]

I would definitely make it so that you can pass an entire function body as a lambda.

[unborn lagoon]

xml is the other big one I think
And all of the Java-inspired packages, basically.

[fervent matrix]

Oh I see, I think that makes sense
Edit; oh it only matches from the start of the string. It does not search the whole string?

[harsh anchor]

it doesn't really

[bleak moth]

my_function = lambda (a, b, c):
  a.foo = "bar"
  b.foo = "baa"
  c.foo = "baz"

[river needle]

👋

[dusk adder]

and tKinter iirc

[cobalt flax]

alright im learning dictionaries today

they just seem like a bunch of variables stored in one place that you can refer to at will

why would you need this

instead of just using variables

[bleak moth]

think about when you would need to do a switch/case statement

[unborn lagoon]

perhaps, I could see the current def become a "function expression".

[charred python]

Dictionaries are a key part of python with a lot of value.

[cobalt flax]

whats a case statement?

[harsh anchor]

would you want a list instead of having variables, a1, a2, a3, a4, a5?

[pulsar dragon]

Oh thanks I reading the rules

[cobalt flax]

i guess its better for organizing

it just feels less important than other features

[harsh anchor]

dictionaries are perhaps the most important data structure

[tame hinge]

Mood

[harsh anchor]

not only is it more organized, you can edit and access it dynamically, whereas you can't with variables. for example, you could read a dictionary from a file, and look up values in it. if you try to do that with just variables, you'll have a tough time

[harsh anchor]

lua manages with essentially just dictionaries as its most complex data structure

[quartz fulcrum]

can anyone tell me what field required learning all data structures in python?

[bleak moth]

match bar:
  case "blah":
    foo = "some value"
  case "foo":
    foo = "some other value"
  case "bar":
    foo = "some other other value"

or

foo = bar[thing] # returns the value you want

[tame hinge]

Random question, do you ever make a dictionary with duplicate items under different keys? Like if I have a bunch of user objects with IDs and emails and I want quick lookup based on either would it be a thing to put it in under both?

[harsh anchor]

i would do separate dicts. or perhaps key it with a frozenset

[bleak moth]

you would create objects that have the subdata, and then key the dictionary to how you want to look it up

[tame hinge]

Fair that sounds cleaner

[cobalt flax]

not sure what i'm looking at but i'll probably learn this lateer

[dusk adder]

key with frozenset helps you why?

[cobalt flax]

codeWordsForChristmasMission = {
    "THE RED CLAW" : "Santa Claus",
    "LITTLE LAMB" : "Present Delta",
    "GRAZE VICTIM" : "Christmas Tree"
}

print(codeWordsForChristmasMission.get("GRAZE VICTIM"))

[quartz fulcrum]

um...

[cobalt flax]

alr so thats a dictionary

[charred python]

Either way. A single dictionary cam make sense since you want a single lookup. But two dictionaries can also make sense if you want to track whether the match was made by id or email.

Also there is a merged dict that does this for you.. i forget the exact name

[cobalt flax]

reindeer

hah

christmas santa reindeer elf stocking milk cookies

[bleak moth]

Basically it allows you to associate one thing to another thing and look it up by the one thing.

[cobalt flax]

T.W// Christmas words (incase grinch sees this message)

[quartz fulcrum]

how does bot reply

[bleak moth]

And by the way, that thing can also be a function

[cobalt flax]

so a dictionary

Ohh interesting

If i try to get a key that doesnt exist instead of returning an error it just says "None"

btw what is "returning" exactly like i dont get the whole .pop thing

hm saying ```py
print(codeWordsForChristmasMission.pop("LITTLE LAMB"))

just returns the value associated with little lamb

OHhhhhhhhhhhhhh

it removes it but after telling u what you're removing

aha that makes sense now

AHA AND NOW SAYING THE SAME STATEMENT AFTER RETURNS AN ERROR

[bleak moth]

def add(a, b):
  return a + b
def sub(a, b):
  return a - b
def mul(a, b):
  return a * b
def div(a, b):
  return a / b

operators = {
  "add" : add,
  "sub" : sub,
  "mul" : mul,
  "div" : div
}

operation = input("Pick an operation [add, sub, mul, div]: ")
a = float(input("Pick a value: "))
b = float(input("Pick another value: "))
print(f"Your result is: {operators[operation](a, b)}")

[cobalt flax]

whats that useful for??

[cobalt flax]

Ahahhhhhhh

couldnt you also define the functions within the dictionary?

or is that just too messy innit

[dry pike]

they would have to be lambdas

[bleak moth]

returning is what the function, once it's finished, is subbed out for, so like the value the function call evaluates to.

def add_five(a):
  return a + 5

value = float(input("Put in a numeric value: "))
print(f"the result after adding five is {add_five(value)}")

[bleak moth]

Python doesn't have inline functions

[steady rain]

!e

import operator
operators = operator.__dict__
result = operators['add'](1, 2)
print(result)

[edgy kraken]

:white_check_mark: Your 3.14 eval job has completed with return code 0.

3

[cobalt flax]

ahaaaaaaaaaaa

[bleak moth]

You can use a lambda though

[cobalt flax]

you can still index an item in a dictionary using [] ok good to know