python-discussion

[timber plinth]

Hello, everyone. Brand new here, and brand new to coding. Looking to change careers. Any advice for a brand new coder just starting out?

Most frequent starting point (besides learning the language) is: seek community. Here I am....

[golden mortar]

Put what you study into practice asap

Do a lot of projects

Super simple ones to begin with, and gradually increase the complexity

Ask for help here if you get stuck or lost

[exotic tundra]

class ASSET_PATH:
    @staticmethod
    def get_absolute_resource_path(relative_path):
        try:
            base_path = sys._MEIPASS2
        except Exception:
            base_path = os.path.abspath(".")
        return os.path.join(base_path, relative_path)
    class IMG:
        class LOGO:
            GUI = get_absolute_resource_path(...) # get_absolute_resource_path is not defined

please help

IDK why it thinks it is not defined

I defined it on top

[golden mortar]

Why are you declaring classes inside other classes?

[exotic tundra]

Because the function is only used within this class and never anywhere else.
Grouping stuff that belongs together is less noisy.

[golden mortar]

I'm not sure what you're trying to represent here, but an inner class has no direct access to an outer class.

[unborn lagoon]

ASSET_PATH.get_absolute_resource_path will only be defined once the class definition is complete. I'd just take it out of the class and make it a standalone function.

[golden mortar]

Even if it was, you couldn't call it like that, could you?

[harsh swallow]

You have levels of nesting classes. That's not normal. Logo logically should be a child of Img, not class inside a class. And getting paths for separate resources shouldn't be in separate classes at all, unless those classes also represent those things.

[exotic tundra]

class ASSET_PATH:
    class IMG:
        class LOGO:
            @staticmethod
            def get_absolute_resource_path(relative_path):
                try:
                    base_path = sys._MEIPASS2
                except Exception:
                    base_path = os.path.abspath(".")
                return os.path.join(base_path, relative_path)
            GUI = get_absolute_resource_path(...) # get_absolute_resource_path is not defined

This would work

[unborn lagoon]

yep, fixed it 🙂

[exotic tundra]

But I want this function to be accessible in the whole class.
Not just subclass.

[cerulean ravine]

which function? If that's what you want, make it a top-level function

[exotic tundra]

sigh

[cerulean ravine]

let's step back: why have classes nested three deep?

[golden mortar]

I think nesting classes like this is a very strange choice, yeah.

[exotic tundra]

OH YOU HAV' PROBLEM.
DO WORKAROUND HAHA, LOL, U R WELCOM

thanks buddy

[cerulean ravine]

we are trying to help. let's keep talking instead of mocking each other.

[harsh anchor]

that is a lot of nesting

[timber plinth]

Ty, I am super new to all this... 3 weeks new. By "do a lot of projects", you mean make many simple programs, correct? I have been doing exercises and tutorials on sites like genepy and freecodecamp and exercism but just kind of feeling lost as a self teacher. Am I on the right path? Using Python Crash Course (3rd Edition) as a learning resource.

[golden mortar]

Doing exercises is good, sure, but I also mean actually building applications.

You'll have to start simple, but you can work your way up.

[exotic tundra]

nothing against you, its just more often than not I ask a specific question and get a workaround that has nothing to do with my question, also a workaround that is obvious to everyone

[cerulean ravine]

have you worked in other languages? This kind of nesting is very very unusual in Python and will be difficult to get to work the way you want.

[golden mortar]

import os
import sys


class ASSET_PATH:
    class IMG:
        class LOGO:
            @staticmethod
            def get_absolute_resource_path(relative_path):
                try:
                    base_path = sys._MEIPASS2
                except Exception:
                    base_path = os.path.abspath(".")
                return os.path.join(base_path, relative_path)

            GUI = get_absolute_resource_path(
                "."
            )  


logo = ASSET_PATH.IMG.LOGO()
print(logo.GUI)
``` This seems to work for me at least.

[exotic tundra]

My initial question was about:

class ASSET_PATH:
    @staticmethod
    def get_absolute_resource_path(relative_path):
        try:
            base_path = sys._MEIPASS2
        except Exception:
            base_path = os.path.abspath(".")
        return os.path.join(base_path, relative_path)
    class IMG:
        class LOGO:
            GUI = get_absolute_resource_path(...) # get_absolute_resource_path is not defined

[rugged summit]

what about now I mean descriptions only?
working on other next(like input etc)
https://grzesiekmq.github.io/algo-playground/

[exotic tundra]

I wrote this to prove that it is possible.

[cerulean ravine]

is the question "why is it undefined" or "how do I fix it"?

[rugged summit]

does now descriptions more clear, unambigous, logical?

[cerulean ravine]

You still have this: "A sequence of mana crystals regenerates each turn. Calculate the total mana collected after 5 turns." I don't know what that means.

[golden mortar]

Yeah, alright, so for one thing you need to access get_absolute_resource_path through ASSET_PATH because inner classes can't access outer classes implicitly, and secondly like @unborn lagoon said, you can't call get_absolute_resource_path while ASSET_PATH is being initialized.

[exotic tundra]

I am trying to fix it in a way >>>>>>> that preserves the structure <<<<<<<.
So defining get_absolute_resource_path in the root of ASSET_PATH and using it in subclasses such as IMG.LOGO.

[golden mortar]

So this would work:

import os
import sys


class ASSET_PATH:
    @staticmethod
    def get_absolute_resource_path(relative_path):
        try:
            base_path = sys._MEIPASS2
        except Exception:
            base_path = os.path.abspath(".")
        return os.path.join(base_path, relative_path)


class IMG:
    class LOGO:
        GUI = ASSET_PATH.get_absolute_resource_path(
            ...
        )  

Because ASSET_PATH finishes initializing before you call the static method.

[quasi shuttle]

guys are there any reputable jwt/jwe libraries that support both encryption + signing ?

[cerulean ravine]

I don't know how to make that work. The name get_absolute_resource_path isn't in scope where you are trying to use it. It can't be accessed by the class name, because the class isn't created yet.

[cerulean ravine]

so you need to change the structure somehow.

[rugged summit]

oh ok

[cerulean ravine]

@exotic tundra can you say more about why you want IMG nested inside ASSET_PATH? I would think the class AssetPath would be just about path names, not involving Img. I could see Img making use of an AssetPath class.

[eager smelt]

!pypi pyjwt
there's this for JWTs

[edgy kraken]

PyJWT v2.10.1

JSON Web Token implementation in Python

Released on <t:1732765409:D>.

[exotic tundra]

If it can't be done I guess I have to define the function before defining the class, I dislike that because I can't group it together even though the function is never used outside the class.

Thanks anyway

[quasi shuttle]

only supports signing

[eager smelt]

!pypi authlib

[edgy kraken]

Authlib v1.6.6

The ultimate Python library in building OAuth and OpenID Connect servers and clients.

Released on <t:1765526501:D>.

[cerulean ravine]

in my opinion, it's fine to define functions outside a class even if they are only used inside the class. Especially in this case: the reason the function is only used inside the class is a coincidence, it's not about the tight coupling of the class and the function. Your code could evolve in the future to use that function from other classes.

[eager smelt]

where did you read that?

[cerulean ravine]

Imagine you had a program that only used len() in one place inside a class. That doesn't mean len() should be defined in the class.

[timber plinth]

Thank you.

[quasi shuttle]

in their docs

https://pyjwt.readthedocs.io/en/stable/algorithms.html

[ember quest]

so i was seeing a video on people's opinions about copilot today

and apparently some people also think LSPs are bad?

for learning

[cerulean ravine]

why do they think that?

[ember quest]

not sure i dont understand why

its just plain convenient

[ember quest]

i think the idea is that it means you dont have to go perusing docs as often

[cerulean ravine]

auto-completion is convenient, but can also mean that you don't bother to read docs.

[eager smelt]

I'm not sure where on this page you read that it doesn't support verifying signed JWTs?

[ember quest]

mhm yeah

[cerulean ravine]

exactly. So you don't find the nuances between methods, you can just grab the one that sounds right.

[quasi shuttle]

i meant it does not support encrypting not that it doesnt support verifying

[unborn lagoon]

Difference between Copilot and autocomplete is that you can't ask autocomplete to find foo, you find foo.

And LSPs would find things that you'd find when running the code anyways (you'd find them before though).

[eager smelt]

I don't understand what you're saying
jwt.encode is signing, jwt.decode is verifying

if you meant JWE, that's not supported by PyJWT, no
for that, see the authlib library I linked above

[ember quest]

it is interesting cuz i clearly am just not using my LSP properly then since i gotta open docs every other time i import smth im not fully familiar with

whats the idea behind why it means you dont read docs as often?

the docstrings from the LSP?

theyre not all that helpful

[unborn lagoon]

I think by LSP you mean autocomplete, btw. LSPs do a bit more than autocomplete.

[quasi shuttle]

i need both, the joserfc library from authlib looks fine

[ember quest]

nono i mean the whole thing (at least as far as i understand it)

doc strings too are kinda convenient
but i still need to go see docs

[unborn lagoon]

It depends a lot on the package you're using. Some have good docstrings, some have not so good docstrings.

[ember quest]

i freaking forget some of the library functionality a bunch of times and have to look up what method im even searching for

[ember quest]

hmm sure i guess

ive just never heard the idea that LSPs are bad for learning before so i find it interesting

i grew up on no autocomplete cpp-

it was hell.

then no autocomplete c# cuz i couldnt get intellisenes to work on my VS (for unity)

not good times

[sharp gyro]

hey can anyone help me with something

[ember quest]

#1035199133436354600

[sharp gyro]

ty

[golden mortar]

I'm not sure what the issue with not reading docs would be.

[frail stirrup]

dont ask to askkkkk 😔

[ember quest]

less suffering in the world. /j

[golden mortar]

If I find a function through LSP that looks like it does what I want, and I use it, I'm not just gonna leave it there and forget about it, I'm gonna actually run my code and see if it does what I want as well.

[ember quest]

some docs can be really nice i like reading them

things like numpy and pandas are great

i mean of course they are

[frail stirrup]

i only know stuff like logspace limspace and whatever else

i got no idea what dimensions were

[spice hill]

the docs probably have some precautions and edge cases that are not obvious when you run the code in your environment on that particular test case

(unless you mean that you read the LSP-provided docstring instead of the external docs)

[unborn lagoon]

It's a fairly purist perspective from what I gather. I have held it previously on the basis that it's a "crutch", but I don't believe that anymore: it's not beneficial to limit yourself like that.

[green cloak]

woah

does it usually take long to get voice perms

[ember quest]

I see. Okay.

[golden mortar]

I mean, I'll read whatever is easily available. And ok, sure, maybe it's hypothetically possible that I introduce a bug that way. But that's just one of the thousands of bugs that I've introduced in my day, and it's typically not the end of the world, and development time is also a valuable metric to optimize.

[ember quest]

do we have any copilot users in here?

[golden mortar]

Yes

[spice hill]

Sometimes LSPs autocomplete random things you definitely should not use. For example, pyright still autocompletes typing.Iterator, typing.Callable and such, which are deprecated, and the only way to figure that out is to read the typing module documentation from time to time

[ember quest]

how do you find it

[golden mortar]

It's easy, it's on the right

[spice hill]

autocompletion is also how some people probably discover the _thread module that has methods that look like what you want

[ember quest]

oh yeah apparently you should use collections.abc i think

[spice hill]

yep

[golden mortar]

But nah, I use it a lot.

[ember quest]

not if you hide it.

[golden mortar]

So I obviously like it.

[unborn lagoon]

oh no not the _thread module.

[ember quest]

ive never used it and i kinda sometimes wanna 'just try' but im very heavily avoiding it lol

what's it like?

[golden mortar]

I mean, there are multiple ways to use it.

There's the autocomplete, ask and agent mode.

I'm hesitant about recommending it, because I think it can be harmful if you're not able to properly evaluate the output.

And while it works well for me, maybe it won't for a more inexperienced user.

[compact loom]

how do i install python on a linux machine?

[golden mortar]

But the autocomplete in particular saves me a lot of time, because it often guesses what I want to write and spares me from having to type it out manually.

[golden mortar]

Probably through the package manager.

[eager smelt]

a recent version should already be installed

[ember quest]

apt-get install python.

[compact loom]

is apt on fedora?

[ember quest]

actually just apt install i think idk what the fuck apt-get is

[eager smelt]

though pyenv is usually recommended to manage multipel Python versions

[golden mortar]

Maybe don't throw out random recommendations when you don't even know what dist they are using.

[eager smelt]

apt is a user-friendly interface to apt-get

[ember quest]

it was mostly a joke okay. hence the bold.

[eager smelt]

(sorry meant to reply)

[ember quest]

but yeah through the package manager.

[compact loom]

im tryna remember my package manager lol

[ember quest]

or i think python's site does have downloads

[eager smelt]

dnf

[compact loom]

yeah thats it

[golden mortar]

But did you check if it's already installed?

[compact loom]

yeah cause i used it earlier

to get clang

[golden mortar]

No, I mean

[ember quest]

i mean it could be but its prolly not Pithon

[golden mortar]

Python

[ember quest]

and you should go get pithon because yes

[compact loom]

hmm let me check

[eager smelt]

they don't need to use the latest version

[ember quest]

do a which python

[ember quest]

Apparently there's people literally forgetting syntax in languages they know well but isn't their primary

[eager smelt]

that happened before autocomplete was a thing too

[ember quest]

which sounds really concerning lol

[compact loom]

turns out it does come pre-installed

[ember quest]

yeah it's not inherently concerning it just concerns me a fair bit

i mean i just posted like yesterday here about how i put a colon into a c program because ive written exclusively python for so long

but its different than if i do write the language relatively often but just let autocomplete do the thing

[ember quest]

mhm yeah it prolly does

[golden mortar]

I mean, I forget things in every language I use all the time

I just look it up again

[ember quest]

if you wanna play around with stuff, you could get the latest one.

[visual juniper]

i think knowing what things there are and how to use them is more important than remembering the exact name / casing of functions

[ember quest]

I think the difference here is between looking it up and not even realising you dont know the syntax until you dont have copilot on and youre lost now

which apparently is a thing

again, never used it, so idk

[golden mortar]

Sounds like a vague and very hypothetical issue

But it's probably a good idea not to use AI too much when you're a beginner

Not for risk of forgetting but for not learning in the first place

[ember quest]

I mean. Yeah maybe idk. I'm just basing this off the videos I was watching these past few days lol.

But I really don't have too much faith in those who do use AI when relatively new to coding

[visual juniper]

the argument that you have to remember syntax and do extreme measures like turn off LSP to do that is a little bit silly

you just get used to it the more you write

[ember quest]

I mostly haven't interacted with enough entire newbies who use GPT and stuff but I kinda know a few and it's interesting

I have a friend telling me she didn't get past day freaking 1 (part 1.) of AoC because some nebulous bug about the end points which she couldn't debug and she asked GPT and it couldn't help too much either and she went and just deleted her code so she can't show it to me either-?

[coarse salmon]

i think debugging is a skill, and gpt makes it really easy to not train that skill

[ember quest]

It's interesting. Kinda weird.

This friend I think just had a bad day though.

[coarse salmon]

ive been guilty of it too, where im over something so i just ask it to find the bug for me

[golden mortar]

Yeah, I think that's a concrete issue, if you become dependent on asking it for help and becoming completely stuck when it can't.

As opposed to learning how to systematically isolate the causes of bugs.

There's like a right and wrong time to make use of AI and a beginner won't know which is which.

[ember quest]

But also she definitely isn't very used to coding I think?

Last year her code had some if boolean_value == True so hmm

[quasi shuttle]

is there a more efficient way to serialise/deserialise python classs? im currently using dataclasses and converting to a dict then json

[dry pike]

pickle methinks

[ember quest]

I don't think non-beginners check for equality with booleans lol.

[coarse salmon]

pydantic?

[eager smelt]

!rule 6
don't advertise your LinkedIn posts

[edgy kraken]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

[hybrid nebula]

Are there any 'mathematical' invariants for IEEE 754-compliant float arithmetic?

fixed-width integers are just modular arithmetic, and bigints follow normal integer arithmetic

[spice hill]

robustness strategies based on theology are pretty popular with floats

well, it is defined precisely, it's not like it's analog or anything

[worn moth]

be aware, pickle is unsafe for untrusted data

[sand hornet]

pickle or pkl?

[hybrid nebula]

especially among those that work with GPUs and questionable SIMD instruction sets

[worn moth]

i did something like this ||(i'm not even sure if it was good for my case but i get rid of to_dict& from_dict methods on every class)||
https://github.com/istyna/py-pletyvo/blob/main/pletyvo/internal/serializer.py

also python stdlib provide a way to handle this type of cases instead of external library that i used
https://docs.python.org/3/library/functools.html#functools.singledispatch

[wise yarrow]

wdym by invariant?

[cerulean ravine]

what's the difference?

[spice hill]

pkl is https://pkl-lang.org/index.html

[silver plover]

Is it me or is 'variant' the word of the year?

Everyone seems to be using it for everything.

(Or maybe I've been in a cave)

[cerulean ravine]

I see. some people use .pkl as the file extension for pickle files.

[harsh swallow]

I know pkl as portable keyboard layout - a program made using autohotkey that allows easily mapping keyboard layouts... I think the layouts for it also used .pkl as a convention

[wise yarrow]

all the usages i can think of are essentially just using the definition of the word

though there are quite a few

specifically "invariant" being used to for a quantity that doesn't change after you do something

i can only think of one context off the top of my head where i've heard the term variant

[silver plover]

https://parquet.apache.org/docs/file-format/types/variantencoding/ was in my mind

[wet pagoda]

oh this is new

tfw metalanguage for config files

[spice hill]

it's not uncommon

there's also dhall

[rapid bridge]

I do appreciate pkl for finally just making a hopefully sufficiently complex config language

[sand hornet]

[sand hornet]

Well, there's also modules and packages and other dependencies called Pickle.. So I was really trying to clarify if they meant a package or Apple's Pkl..

[cerulean ravine]

there are other modules in the Python world called Pickle other than pickle in the stdlib?

[frank marsh]

Hi guys, im a bit of a silly goose.

In terms computer science is 0 and 1 a Boolean or an integer.

My teacher and basically everyone known to mankind says it’s a Boolean however my friend is saying it’s an integer?

I’m a bit new to this and would like to know 🙁

[sand hornet]

There are also some in other languages, but yes.. https://pypi.org/search/?q=pickle

[fiery yarrow]

is there a particular reason they can't be both?

[wet pagoda]

its mostly semantics. strictly speaking, booleans describe true and false values, so the most succint description is "boolean" but 0 and 1 are still integers.

yeah, they can be both

[frank marsh]

Yeah it’s an exam, what date type is 0 and 1

[wet pagoda]

id go with boolean in this case

[fiery yarrow]

are you currently taking this exam?

[frank marsh]

@twin tree

[cerulean ravine]

I would not call 0 and 1 booleans. They can be used as a poor-man's boolean (and were in early Pythons). they are ints that can be used like booleans. Booleans are True and False.

[frank marsh]

But is a 0 not equivalent to a False?

[sand hornet]

You can also do

int main() {
   int a = 1;
   if(a) {
      printf("It's true");
   } else {
      printf("It's false");
   }
   return 0;
}

This should print out "It's true" afaik

[wet pagoda]

if the question is a Python question then i'd say 0 and 1 are integers, but if you mean CS in general im gonna say booleans.

[cerulean ravine]

Complicating this is that in Python, booleans are a subclass of ints, and True == 1 and False == 0.

[wet pagoda]

but they really are just both

[frank marsh]

In terms of basic CS, 0 is a False and 1 is True?

[twin tree]

But isn't 0 and 1 not considered integers unless it's directly specified that the 0 and 1 is bool values?

[steel whale]

it's ragebait

[cerulean ravine]

0 and 1 are integers

bleh: ruff reformats fr"" to rf""

[wise yarrow]

personally i wouldn't call 0 and 1 booleans in a general context, but in certain contexts i might use the symbols 0 and 1 to denote false and true

[sand hornet]

Yes, but both of those numbers are integers themselves - as ned states. It's just that "True" evaluates to 1, and "False" evaluates to 0... C is annoying..

The quotes might be around the wrong word

[wet pagoda]

pretty sure its the otherway around

ah wait nvm

[thin latch]

0 and 1 are considers as false and true, off and on, low and high by default.

[sand hornet]

How else are you going to uninstall the french language pack /s

[wise yarrow]

imo languages having truthiness/falsiness doesn't mean that the integers 0 and 1 are booleans automatically

[granite wyvern]

No.
But a lot of situations treat them that way.

[foggy idol]

0 and 1 are symbols, and without assignment nor clarification of programming language you can't say what they'll be interpreted as I guess?

[spice hill]

something like that, yes

[granite wyvern]

I'm prepared to accept them as numeric values (unless you're just talking about the glyphs), but that's it.
They are not Booleans of themselves.

[spice hill]

not every language even needs to have a separate bool concept

[fiery yarrow]

aye
they need separate trools instead

[foggy idol]

maybe they're strings or chars

[spice hill]

(e.g.: unityped languages like B and Brainfuck)

[granite wyvern]

Thus the use of the word glyph.

[wet pagoda]

C prior to C99 basically

[foggy idol]

yeah, I think it's valid to treat them just as their base glyphs when not given any context

especially if you wanna be not fun at parties

[granite wyvern]

I don't need your leet extra skills to be no fun at parties.

[spice hill]

bool is an int in Python purely due to historical evolution. Python used to not have bool, instead the integers 0 and 1 were used to represent false and true. Later bool was added, and the only way to add it in a mostly backwards-compatible way was subclassing int

[steel whale]

True == 1      # True (why?)
True is 1      # False (i'm very confused)```

[granite wyvern]

See fix error above.

[wet pagoda]

is is about identity (address in memory, in CPython)

[granite wyvern]

Consider type(1) and type(True).

[wet pagoda]

== has an arbitrary definition

[granite wyvern]

Different types, so cannot b the same object.

[spice hill]

bool and int are not the same class. bool is a subclass of int
== in Python is sometimes overloaded to compare values of different classes, e.g. 5.0 == 5

[steel whale]

i keep forgetting about this

[steel whale]

in the last expression's case, what does python do? convert 5 to a float and check?

[sand hornet]

Just wait until you do this;

int main() {
   int a = 1;
   int b = 0;
   if ((a ^ b) && (b % a == 0) && (a << b)) {
      printf("It's true\n");
   } else {
      printf("It's false\n");
   }
   return 0;
}

And then it just says "It's true"

[foggy idol]

this makes is None good, because conceptually None is also falsey

[granite wyvern]

Yes

promote int to float and compare.

[steel whale]

.bm thanks

[granite wyvern]

Presumably if the int won't convert to float (eg too big) the comparison fails.

[foggy idol]

is there a == between an int and a float that succeeds but shouldn't?

[spice hill]

To be clear, that's not some special baked-in rule, that's just what float and int define in their __eq__ method. You could customize that for your own class

[golden mortar]

I think it just gives False

[granite wyvern]

just trying to test that now ....

[spice hill]

!e

print(0.0 == 300**42069)

[edgy kraken]

:white_check_mark: Your 3.14 eval job has completed with return code 0.

False

[spice hill]

yeah, thankfully it doesn't crash or anything like that

[golden mortar]

Which makes sense, cause it can't be equal to a float if you can't cast it to a float

[granite wyvern]

!e

float(300**42069)

[edgy kraken]

:x: Your 3.14 eval job has completed with return code 1.

001 | Traceback (most recent call last):
002 |   File "/home/main.py", line 1, in <module>
003 |     float(300**42069)
004 |     ~~~~~^^^^^^^^^^^^
005 | OverflowError: int too large to convert to float

[wise yarrow]

does less than work?

[granite wyvern]

As I hoped. False for the comparison, overflow for the conversion.

[fiery yarrow]

test it stickie

[wise yarrow]

!e

print(0.0 < 300**42069)
print(0.0 > -300**42069)

[edgy kraken]

:white_check_mark: Your 3.14 eval job has completed with return code 0.

001 | True
002 | True

[granite wyvern]

!e

print(0.0 < 300**42069)

[sand hornet]

Forgot to print that

[edgy kraken]

:white_check_mark: Your 3.14 eval job has completed with return code 0.

True

[spice hill]

!e Here's some potentially surprising behavior:

print(18014398509481984.0 == 18014398509481984)
print(18014398509481985.0 == 18014398509481984)
print(18014398509481985.0 == 18014398509481985)
``` I would at least hope that Python produced a syntax warning on `18014398509481985.0`

[wet pagoda]

whats 3.14j`?

[edgy kraken]

:white_check_mark: Your 3.14 eval job has completed with return code 0.

001 | True
002 | True
003 | False

[spice hill]

3.14 with JIT

[wet pagoda]

o

[granite wyvern]

Round off.

[wise yarrow]

roughly ln(-1)

[wet pagoda]

lol thanks

[foggy idol]

nice yeah that's what I was wondering

good PR for linters maybe

[fiery yarrow]

silver lining of using the correct ln at least.
mfing math fellas using log for ln

[sand hornet]

don't ln my log_e() smh

[wise yarrow]

i would only use log if i needed to refer to the multivalued logarithm and a specific branch of the logartihm at the same time

[sand hornet]

(I can't remember what the actual is.. sorry if that's wrong)

[wet pagoda]

me when the principle logarithm

[sand hornet]

My favorite thing about log is that you can make ln(x) == log(x) / log(e) iirc

[steady rain]

what base is log(x)?

[spice hill]

doesn't matter

[wise yarrow]

any base works as long as it's a valid base

[steady rain]

ah I see

[sand hornet]

*and as long as it's the same base

[fiery yarrow]

slightly widerly phrased, log_a(x) == log_b(x) / log_b(a)

[steady rain]

why does that make it weird?

[sand hornet]

Not weird, but more expanded // clearly defined

[fiery yarrow]

widerly. as in more generally and not just with euler's constant

[wise yarrow]

change of base is why people just write like O(n log n) without a base

because it doesn't matter

[sand hornet]

The general assumption is what the graph looks like. The base just changes the rate of change for said graph iirc

[golden mortar]

Whenever I hear something like that I lately just assume it's a real English word that's just not common, but this one actually isn't in Merriam-Webster.

lonelily is, though

[granite wyvern]

I wandered lonelily, as a cloud.

[golden mortar]

A lone lily lonelily sat on top a lonely hill

[charred tusk]

@ daylily

[fiery yarrow]

there's nothing pingable there, shen

[charred tusk]

YKWIM

WTF is their username now??

oh, duh
I'm dumb

[sand hornet]

Felt

[charred tusk]

thanks

[sand hornet]

I really contributed to the conversation

[charred tusk]

I mean, I was just talking to myself

It's been extra lonely here lately, trying to stay out of my head

[sand hornet]

Y'know, that could be good.. Or sleep. Sleep is good.

[charred tusk]

Already had 13h of it
I missed dinner last night

[sand hornet]

;-;

Sick/cold?

[charred tusk]

No idea
Started my laundry at 16:30, then flopped in bed to do some Discord on my phone, and the next thing I knew I was waking up at 05:30

[charred siren]

so real

[charred tusk]

Passed right out
I wasn’t even tired (or so I thought)
I was hungry too
Dinner looked good, I’m upset I missed it
But I Uber Eats’ed burgers at 6am so that was fun

[charred siren]

written like a poet

[golden mortar]

<@&831776746206265384>

[steady rain]

!cpban 1449875724449222818

[edgy kraken]

Bad argument

Could not convert "user" into UnambiguousMember or UnambiguousUser.
User "1449875724449222818" not found.

[slender urchin]

!compban 354712976055336961

[steady rain]

I'm so bad at this.

[edgy kraken]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @warped quiver until <t:1766093340:f> (4 days).

[golden mortar]

That's not the right answer. If you're stuck, make sure you're using the full input data.

[steady rain]

wrong reply?

[golden mortar]

Nah, just an attempt at an AoC joke.

[supple pelican]

can anyone help me fix part of the code for my trading bot?

i can pay

[steady rain]

don't offer to pay. just show the code and explain what the problem is.

(this is a warning--you are not allowed to offer to pay.)

[golden mortar]

Since you typically submit numbers, and the above is what you often get if you submit the wrong one.

[steady rain]

guess now everyone knows I didn't do AoC

[supple pelican]

canu help me in dm?

[supple pelican]

alr mbad

[steady rain]

No. Don't be cagey--what issue are you having?

[golden mortar]

Nah, it's ok, it was pretty farfetched.

[golden mortar]

We generally discourage help through DMs. By asking your question in public, everyone can contribute to the answer or benefit from it. You can use #1035199133436354600 to get a dedicated help thread.

[supple pelican]

in the section on signing transactions, i dont know exactly where my bot is failing
executed order: {'up': {'ok': False, 'error': "PolyApiException[status_code=400, error_message={'error': 'invalid signature'}]"}, 'down': {'ok': False, 'error': "PolyApiException[status_code=400, error_message={'error': 'invalid signature'}]"}}

[edgy kraken]

Hey @supple pelican!

Please edit your message to use a code block

```py
print('Hello, world!')
```

This will result in the following:

print('Hello, world!')```

[supple pelican]

from eth_account import Account
from py_clob_client.client import ClobClient
from py_clob_client.clob_types import OrderArgs, OrderType
from py_clob_client.order_builder.constants import BUY

PRIVATE_KEY = "0xTU_PRIVATE_KEY_REAL"
ADDRESS = "0xTU_ADDRESS_REAL"

assert Account.from_key(PRIVATE_KEY).address.lower() == ADDRESS.lower()

client = ClobClient(
    host="https://clob.polymarket.com",
    key=PRIVATE_KEY,
    funder=ADDRESS,
    chain_id=137,
    signature_type=2,
)

creds = client.create_or_derive_api_creds()
client.set_api_creds(creds)

args = OrderArgs(
    token_id=TOKEN_ID,
    price=0.5,     
    size=5,        
    side=BUY,
)

signed = client.create_order(args)
resp = client.post_order(signed, OrderType.GTC)
print(resp)

[golden mortar]

I assume you edited this and you're using your real private key in your code?

[supple pelican]

wym

[charred tusk]

I just want you to know that I got the joke and I found it pretty funny

[supple pelican]

thats not the problem

[charred tusk]

How do you know?

[supple pelican]

even if I put the key there, its also in the .env file and it keeps throwing the same error

[golden mortar]

Thanks, I appreciate you saying that. Right after sending it I was like "I'm just gonna sound like a crazy person, aren't I?"

[golden mortar]

So do you actually have PRIVATE_KEY set to "0xTU_PRIVATE_KEY_REAL"?

[supple pelican]

yes if u can come dm i pass u all the code

[golden mortar]

You should not show me your real private key

Or anyone else for that matter

[supple pelican]

nah chill im not stupd jsjj

[golden mortar]

Again, we don't do help in DMs on this server

You can create your own help thread in #1035199133436354600

[supple pelican]

oh my dayyyyyyys

ineed to fix that bro

[supple pelican]

why

[golden mortar]

Because using a help thread works just as well, and allows more people to help

as well as benefit from the answers

Why does it need to be in DMs?

[supple pelican]

cuz the code can be public bro

[granite wyvern]

Just put the secrets in a file and load them in the code. Then tyou can share the code.

[supple pelican]

its not a free code or anything

[golden mortar]

Nobody's gonna steal your CLOB client sample code

[supple pelican]

i cant gift that on a public dc

yknw what am saying

[supple pelican]

hell no

[charred tusk]

IDEK what a CLOB is

[supple pelican]

the bot uses a strategy that cannot be made public

[golden mortar]

Then don't show that part of the code, just make a minimal example that reproduces the error

You got an invalid signature, that just means you can't make an API call

You don't need to paste your whole trading strategy to fix that

[supple pelican]

alr i appreaceate it u

[charred python]

DMs are where you try to get some sucker to invest in your strategy. Or at least that's what happens with others. That's one reason we avoid DMs. Also it means one person is committing to helping one on one you which most people don't want to do.

[supple pelican]

u trippin

[supple pelican]

at first I said I would pay whoever helped me, i dont want anyones money, idont need it, stop talking bullshit

[charred python]

Maybe not you, but hang out here for a day or two and see how many people we have trying to get people to DM them about opportunities.

[golden mortar]

@supple pelican https://github.com/Polymarket/py-clob-client <- Did you read the readme here? Especially the part about how you have to configure the client differently depending on the wallet type

[supple pelican]

damn

alr

[golden mortar]

I don't know what kind of wallet you have but make sure you follow the right steps for your wallet type

[supple pelican]

nah thats not the problem

[golden mortar]

Try to get it to work with one of the basic examples from the readme and then once it works you can plug it into your real code

[supple pelican]

100% the problem is in the code

the wallet is good

[granite wyvern]

You're getting a bad signature rror. That suggests a basic failure of the API use in some way. Sort just that.

[golden mortar]

I don't mean that your wallet isn't good, I mean that the code to configure the CLOB client has to be correct depending on the wallet type. See the readme.

[granite wyvern]

If your strategy is a secret, stuff it into its own file, provide a dumy strategy (eg "buy never" or buy once or something trite).

[golden mortar]

If you can make a basic API call work, that'll probably fix your issue with your real code.

[glossy prism]

how to check if there is sound in speakers using python?

[slender urchin]

on windows there's pycaw

[edgy kraken]

Hey @proper nexus!

Please edit your message to use a code block

```py
print('Hello, world!')
```

This will result in the following:

print('Hello, world!')```

[proper nexus]

wops

[south bison]

completed my first two problems in leetcode :)

[slender urchin]

congrats :3

[hybrid nebula]

is there any way to do single-precision float arithmetic in Python?
not just converting 64-32 bit, but actually doing math

[slender urchin]

numpy

[hybrid nebula]

ooh

can that do all libm operations?

[slender urchin]

idk what a libm is

[proper nexus]

maybe math.h?

[glossy prism]

it's not python extension .h

[hybrid nebula]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_mathematical_functions

[glossy prism]

it's c++

[proper nexus]

i wonder why i cant write in rust lobby, did they deactivate the channel?

[hybrid nebula]

it's C

[hybrid nebula]

https://canary.discord.com/channels/273534239310479360/273539705595756544

[proper nexus]

No Access

[unborn lagoon]

The official one is no longer a thing. Community is though (which is what owo is linking).

[hybrid nebula]

[(🦀)Rust Programming Language Commu…⁠ > # offtopic] for me

[slender urchin]

gmpy2 lets you make arbitrary precision floats too

[hybrid nebula]

ah, just gnu mp/fr/c wrappers

[rugged summit]

You are given a list of mana crystals, each with a certain value. Every turn, all crystals regenerate their full value. Simulate 5 turns and calculate the total mana collected by summing the values of all crystals in each turn.

Mana Cascade better?

I think yes

[hybrid nebula]

uh, so just 5 * sum(crystals)?

[rugged summit]

yes

but before was

[hybrid nebula]

this is the actual code btw

[rugged summit]

A sequence of mana crystals regenerates each turn. Calculate the total mana collected after 5 turns.

yes here is not clear what to do

but by hiding what to do its harder to do but impossible or not?

yes got it actual code right

so here its not clear if its 5 * sum?

[dry yacht]

Why is that unclear?
I assume you have a function f: N -> N that maps the number of the turn to how much mana you regenerate in that turn, so it's just:

total_mana_regenerated_from_round_2_to_5_inclusive = 0
for turn in range(2, 6):
    total_mana_regenerated_from_round_2_to_5_inclusive += f(turn)

Obviously the 2-5 range is just an example and could be dynamically set instead

[hybrid nebula]

it's never clear when the mana is harvested

if it says 'regenerate 5 times' it might mean it's harvested 6 times (in the beginning or after each regen)

[charred tusk]

Oh hi Doctor

[median stag]

Pyphon is neet :D

[jovial lava]

It's that time of year again. I'm looking for the next years chess game. Each year I pick a new opening/gambit and play it for a solid year. Time for the next! Just got done with a year of the Cochrane gambit. What's next?

[jagged belfry]

This one is clear. You're asked how much mana is collected (by the crystals) over 5 turns. That would be 5 instances of crystals recharging

It could be more complicated if they are only drained a certain amount, but if that is not specified, then answering "0" is not really a sane answer and so you should just assume they're fully utilized

[rotund steppe]

any python oop projects ideas?

[cerulean ravine]

all python projects can be oop projects

[fervent matrix]

!kind got bunch of projects in general, you can just apply the oop there

[edgy kraken]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[brisk gazelle]

"Does anyone know of a list of programming projects I could do?"

"!kind of."```

[charred tusk]

[dry yacht]

<@&831776746206265384>

[steady rain]

!cpban 439401731785490432

[edgy kraken]

:incoming_envelope: :ok_hand: applied ban to @supple mango until <t:1766101018:f> (4 days).

[acoustic spear]

cp ban. jeez what did bro do

[dry yacht]

The typical 4 images Mr Beast smth scam

[stray field]

Clear/purge

[acoustic spear]

ohh i see

[tulip hedge]

Hello everyone

I’m new here

[cerulean ravine]

welcome!

[tulip hedge]

Thanks

[tight tree]

Is it just me that finds multiline strings annoying to deal with? Are you not supposed to use them for actual outputs to the user?
The fact that leading spaces on each line are actually included makes it hard to format in code

[pallid garden]

i always use "\n"

[cerulean ravine]

wrap them in textwrap.dedent()

or inspect.cleandoc()

[frosty oriole]

i usualy always end up using dedent with multiline strings

[tight tree]

I think I will just

output = (
    f"## {"You Did It" if self.completed else "You Got This"}!\n"
    f"**Goal:** {self.text}\n"
    f"**Repeat:** {self.repeat.display()}\n"
    f"**Reward:** {self.reward} Crumbs"
)

[cerulean ravine]

did you try textwrap.dedent?

output = textwrap.dedent(f"""\
    ## {"You Did It" if self.completed else "You Got This"}!
    **Goal:** {self.text}
    **Repeat:** {self.repeat.display()}
    **Reward:** {self.reward} Crumbs
""")

[frosty oriole]

is the \ supposed to be there?

[tight tree]

No, thanks for the suggestion, but I dont want to have to call a function on it

[cerulean ravine]

why not?

[cerulean ravine]

yes, or there will be a first blank line

[tight tree]

it becomes more unclear what is going on

[frosty oriole]

i thought dedent stripped out newlines at the start and end?

[frosty oriole]

dedent is very common in this scenario. i'd argue what you're doing would catch someone by surprise more than dedent

it would for me, at least

[tight tree]

I have never seen dedent before

[cerulean ravine]

TIL!

[frosty oriole]

interesting

[cerulean ravine]

now you know what it does.

[tight tree]

never even knew that there was a std package called textwrap

[cerulean ravine]

we are all learning every day

[harsh anchor]

it is allowed by Google's style guide (I know because I checked recently), but I am not a fan

[frosty oriole]

it is still personal preference, yes

[cerulean ravine]

how would you make the string?

[harsh anchor]

I like multiline strings, but without dedent. it can look wonky but you get what you see in the string

[granite wyvern]

I do the dedent (or cleandoc, or my stripped_dedent, which seems to do... what cleandoc does) at output time. Leaves the strings directly there in the code.

[frosty oriole]

huh. i dont know why i didnt think of that before

that does seem cleaner than wrapping the whole multiline string in a function call

[harsh anchor]

you have to remember to do it, though, or maybe wrap it in a helper function. maybe annoying if you need it multiple times

[granite wyvern]

I use a helper quite often: https://github.com/cameron-simpson/css/blob/ce035ce150664824909bfe390555481acc98c611/lib/python/cs/lex.py#L435

[edgy kraken]

lib/python/cs/lex.py line 435

def stripped_dedent(```

[charred tusk]

You go out of the way to put args on a different line
But then you put them all on the same line

[fiery yarrow]

shame there's no builtin helper function.
could even have dedent in the name.
alas

[charred tusk]

Hmm
Maybe we could suggest it

[granite wyvern]

... because they exceed the formatter line length.
I could put them all on separate lines with atrailing comma.

[granite wyvern]

cleandoc is a lot like my stripped_dedent (no post_indent etc). And you can have stripped_dedent by adding cs.lex to your packages.

[granite wyvern]

You may get the answer: not everything needs to be in the stdlib. You've got dedent and cleandoc, other stuff gets into the bikeshedding space pretty quickly.

[grand tundra]

hello

[round orbit]

yuoyo

[cerulean ravine]

i think their comment was a joke, since textwrap.dedent already exists

[granite wyvern]

My yapf style is basicly PEP8 with a few tweaks: https://github.com/cameron-simpson/css/blob/main/.style.yapf

[granite wyvern]

Mebbe so. I'm pretty literal minded.

[charred tusk]

You use a yapper as your formatter?

(that is also a joke)

[granite wyvern]

Yap. I hate black and ruff.

Aye.

[charred tusk]

oh?

[granite wyvern]

O?

[charred tusk]

Oh hey look a PR from me

[charred tusk]

Why do you hate Black/Ruff?

[granite wyvern]

Too opinionated and not tunable.

Ok for a "just have the entire team agree", crap if you actually care about things.

[charred tusk]

Fair
I'm the opposite
I don't really care so I love having strict tools to keep things consistent for me

[granite wyvern]

Aye. I still haven't gotten to attending to it. Thanks tho.

[charred tusk]

I don't even remember doing it so... 👍 I guess lol

[barren valley]

Yo what should I code?

[charred tusk]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Libs

[fiery yarrow]

shen do you want a dmca notice from nedbat or something

[steel whale]

how is TWD going

[charred tusk]

Ah yes
Because Ned surely has higher authority than Price Stern Sloan

[charred tusk]

Not as good as I remembered
I got distracted though
Now I'm here instead

[steel whale]

I'm not getting my gaming PC until like mid April which is when I'm done with the school year

[charred tusk]

Are you gonna get TWD?

[fiery yarrow]

maybe he does.
but incontrovertible is it that the fella who constantly suggests mad libs as project ideas is the nedbat

[steel whale]

prolly, tho I sail the seas

in gonna get rpcs3 and play some of my favorites

[charred tusk]

I love sailing

[steel whale]

including tomb raider

don't we all

[charred tusk]

My dad didn't when the roomate got us sent a DCMA notice

[cerulean ravine]

I'm happy for the meme to spread!

[charred tusk]

Oh hai Ned

It's a meme?

[cerulean ravine]

yes, in the original sense of the word: an idea that spreads

[charred tusk]

fair

I need to update mine
I never finished loading the phrases directly from the story file

[steel whale]

also @charred tusk you should play Detroit become human, even the tuffest will get heartbroken by the story

it's just so peak

[charred tusk]

I did
And I did

[steel whale]

oh

tuff I guess

first time I played it I actually cried for a bit

that's how peak it is

[charred tusk]

I think you read me backwards
I did get heartbroken

Am not tuff
Cried for like 12 hours straight last week

[steel whale]

ik I implicitly told myself

[steel whale]

straight??????

[charred tusk]

Pretty much
||Had to say goodbye to the dog||
Was on and off all night long

[steel whale]

I was tearing up when I was doing this "iterative gameplay" where I do every single possible combination of choices and I went thru a several where I had to kill connor

[steel whale]

not the dawg

[charred tusk]

Yep
Gonna have to change my PFP now

[steel whale]

wait wdym

did the dog just let go of life's touch? ||euthanasia?||

[charred tusk]

Oh
Yeah
Sorry, I know being "polite" is always opaque
||yeah, euthanasia||

[midnight patrol]

Hello :D

[charred tusk]

Howdy

[sand hornet]

What did I just…

[midnight patrol]

Is it possible to find actual jobs as software developers, particularly doing automation with python?
Or should I just switch to something else / give up?

[frosty oriole]

it is possible

kinda rough rn though

[charred tusk]

See #career-advice

[midnight patrol]

:o
Okie ty

[charred tusk]

Hi Robin

[frosty oriole]

yo

[midnight patrol]

damn...

[charred tusk]

IDK what I wanna do with my name
I was memeing 🐕‍🦺 for a while
I actually wanted to be "wolfie" but I ended up as "doggo"
Maybe I commit to the bit and go full wolf now
Or maybe I quit being the weirdo with the emoji name

[frosty oriole]

how are you holding up

[steel whale]

sorry to hear, but that's just life, can't do nothing about it except accept it

[charred tusk]

Got like five different users at work who's software (all different ones) has decided to crash repeatedly, and they're all spamming me with messages about how they are the one that needs help first
I need Fish's GIF about going completely mental

[steel whale]

tell them to shut up and put them in a queue

that's what I do in exams when the teacher leaves the room since everyone just goes completely hyper and shit

[frosty oriole]

that's tough man

:(

[charred tusk]

Whatever happened to quiet holidays??

I must be on the naughty list this year

[sand hornet]

I think you need them all in the same group chat and tell them to "decide who gets help first"

[charred tusk]

Oh my DOG that would be glorious

[sand hornet]

Meanwhile you're just working on one of their issues watching the chat argue

[charred tusk]

But nah, I already know exactly who the priorities are

[sand hornet]

Fair enough

Need to ask your manager if you can anonymized group chats so they can argue who takes priority

[barren valley]

Bruh what should I do tonight

[charred tusk]

Make one of these https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mad_Libs

[barren valley]

Bruh

[charred tusk]

Yes?

[rotund steppe]

" yes?" 💀

[barren valley]

What if i don’t want to do those

[charred tusk]

Then do something different

No ones forcing you to do a specific project idea

[barren valley]

I want suggestions tho

[charred tusk]

!projects There's lots of project ideas in the world

[edgy kraken]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[barren valley]

Ima do a app to take down discord

[charred tusk]

based

Good luck blowing up Cloudflare

[bleak brook]

how do i get permission to speak in vc?

[charred tusk]

!voice

[edgy kraken]

Voice verification

Can’t talk in voice chat? Check out #voice-verification to get access. The criteria for verifying are specified there.

[barren valley]

What?

[bleak brook]

ty

when it says to be active does this mean i have to talk for a hour 30 minutes straight?

seems like a lot off time

[charred tusk]

not sure

[frosty oriole]

it keeps vc high quality

stops people from newly joining and saying random shit

[charred tusk]

https://www.cloudflare.com/case-studies/discord/

[bleak brook]

ok

[barren valley]

Who cares about discord

[charred tusk]

Cloudflare's entire selling point is anti-bot/anti-DDOS stuff
Discord uses Cloudflare
So to blow up Discord you gotta blow of Cloudflare first

[barren valley]

With all its problems

[charred tusk]

You did five seconds ago

[barren valley]

Nope I wanna take them DOWN

[cerulean ravine]

let's stop joking about this

[barren valley]

I’m not

[cerulean ravine]

ok, then you are getting close to a ban.

[barren valley]

How?

[cerulean ravine]

!rule 5

[edgy kraken]

Rules

5. Do not provide or request help on projects that may violate terms of service, or that may be deemed inappropriate, malicious, or illegal.

[charred tusk]

Hi again Ned
Ned have you ever tried to make your own language?

[barren valley]

How is saying I want to take down discord violating the TOS

[cerulean ravine]

doesn't it seem malicious and illegal to you?

[frosty oriole]

it seems inappropriate malicious and illegal

[cerulean ravine]

not design a language, but implement one, yes, in small ways

[barren valley]

How is it illegal if guild and multiple other apps tried the same

[charred tusk]

I love the idea and I want to have one with my name on it just to say I did it
But every time I pick up Crafting Interpreters I end up with a headache and taking a break to walk the dog by the third paragraph

[cerulean ravine]

just stop

[barren valley]

It’s not maliscious it’s purpose is to better than it

[cerulean ravine]

is your reasoning that if someone has tried it, it must not be illegal?

[frosty oriole]

you should then ask a specific question about building a chat app

[charred tusk]

Chat apps are kinda annoying

Anything real-time sucks

[barren valley]

I’m not hacking discord or doing anything bad just making a app

[silver plover]

Reminds me of a friend who believed that blogging and social media were a fad, and wouldn't last

[charred tusk]

What do they say now?

[craggy willow]

email will never catch on

[charred tusk]

Wait, people use email?

[frosty oriole]

lead with that next time

[charred tusk]

Robin being embarrassed about waking up Mr. Bobby caught in 4k

[silver plover]

I believe they have a blog. No, mostly LinkedIn posts

[barren valley]

So please don’t assume

[charred tusk]

ewwww

They were so close to being based

[cerulean ravine]

Sorry, your wording was ambiguous.

[frosty oriole]

?

[charred tusk]

was joke

[silver plover]

I have a new raspberry pi project. How to train my dog to stop barking.

[charred tusk]

Hooking it up to a spray bottle?

[silver plover]

I guess so. If -it- does it, I don't feel so bad

[barren valley]

So is there a good free host?

[charred tusk]

for?

[frosty oriole]

presuming they're talking about their discord competitor, a web app

vercel is good for small, single developer projects
AWS for more serious stuff
in between those two there are a lot of options, basically any that provide you with a VPS will do

[cerulean ravine]

what kind of project do you want to host?

[barren valley]

The app when I’m done

[silver plover]

https://github.com/mdoulaty/woofalytics

[charred tusk]

huh

neat

[silver plover]

Until the dogs start working together, in order to get more treats.

[charred tusk]

Hey, if they teach each other to stop barking, then you've still won

[pallid garden]

writing an RCE in binary barks sounds a bit too difficult for dogs to accomplish

[charred tusk]

I thought Vercel ran stuff "serverless"
Can I have a backend with websockets in Vercel?

[barren valley]

The chat app

[pallid garden]

vercel is server (serverful?) with scale to zero

i think

[fiery yarrow]

that program gives a treat to a dog when another dog barks, for distraction purposes. if the programs are present in multiple areas, with multiple dogs, and they somehow discover this, billobobbo is concerned about conspiracies to trigger multiple distraction treats via mutual barking, possibly at a higher rate than is already present

this would most likely not be considered as winning

[pallid garden]

billobobbo 😆

is that our version of bibibubo

[cerulean ravine]

I wouldn't worry about a hosting service yet. You have to build the app first.

[bleak moth]

Thanks for the tip. Checking out Vercel now!

[pallid garden]

vercel is expensive if you need to scale up, so it makes sense to write your app with the consideration of vendor lock-in

[charred tusk]

Vercel makes a pretty damn good product
But they have some pretty damn shitty business practices

They don't let you cancel your paid plan and go back to the free tier, you have to contact their support and they will delete your entire account.

They stopped supporting private repos on the free tier overnight, and didn't say anything until people complained, at which point they cited changelog entries from like six months ago, and promised they sent out an email that nobody actually got.

[pallid garden]

take advantage of their free tier but dont get yourself locked in

[sand hornet]

I'm intending to derail because I saw a Vercel mention, I so badly want Anantaaaaaa

[pallid garden]

what's ananta?

[sand hornet]

Anime GTA

[pallid garden]

...

what

how does that relate to vercel

[sand hornet]

It's not full weeb but it looks so fun..

[sand hornet]

It doesn't, that's why I said I was intending to derail because I saw Vercel was mentioned

Anyways

[charred tusk]

Python!

[sand hornet]

I'm writing Swift 😭

[charred tusk]

Is it fun?

[sand hornet]

Sorta? It likes to do cursed things, but if you can't guarantee expected typing, it'll just fail to compile

[barren sentinel]

Python related thing I'm struggling with since I'm not good at generators:
I'm implementing a regex backtracking engine, and currently trying to use cameron's suggestion of implementing it with generators, but I'm unsure how to do the Repeat/Concat while still keeping it using lazy iteration.
My current matches functions all have the signature def matches(self, input: str, index: int) -> Generator[int]:

Focusing on Concat, I think I conceptually understand how it should function. Concat looks like this:

@dataclass
class Concat(Spanned):
    regexes: Sequence[RegexItem]

So the process of matching it would look like
For each regex in self.regexes, the starting index is the most recent result of the last regex's generator. If the current regex runs out of indexes, try again using the next index from the previous one. If the last index is reached, yield from it.
But I'm struggling hard to translate this into code

[solar mantle]

wsp

[dusty ember]

it'd be kind of scarier if it let you break the rules of its type system 👀

[solemn rain]

Good morning

[sand hornet]

So...a lazy C compiler?

[dusty ember]

pretty much 😩

[barren sentinel]

Like usual fully writing it out helped but still wow this is a confusing way to program https://paste.pythondiscord.com/CPXA . Now for the probably even more confusing Repeat

Update since I see you typing: Even with using Concat as a base for Repeat it still doesn't seem to be working correctly

(Also I made the concat code better but still equivalent https://paste.pythondiscord.com/UCGA , and it's still a bit confusing to me)

(Also here's the full current code if you'd like to look at it https://paste.pythondiscord.com/JURA)

[granite wyvern]

Well you could do it recursively, where you recurse over regexes. What you want is a matcher for your single RegexItem which yields the matches in longest-first (or shortest-first) order, subject to matching the tail items.

Sketch:

class RegexItem:
    ....
    def match(self, text, offset, tail_items) -> Generator[int]:
      for end_offset in self.possible_match_end_offsets(text, offset):
        if not tail_items:
          yield end_offset # success, this is viable
        next_item, *new_tail = tail_items
        for next_offset in next_item.match(text, end_offset, new_tail):
            yield end_offset # tail matches, this is viable

You need to write possible_match_end_offsets for this item, whose sole job is to match the item itself to text at offset and yield end_offsets which indicate the end of each possible item match.

[granite wyvern]

Ok, so my offset is your index.
Your backtracker seems nice - stack instead of recursion.

[serene urchin]

..

[harsh horizon]

I work at the intersection of AI and Blockchain, building systems that are intelligent, secure, and easy for users to interact with. I also handle the full UI/UX and front-end development for mobile and web projects using React Native, React, and multi-stack environments.

I’m open to collaborating with clients or agencies who need support on AI-powered trading tools, decentralized platforms, or modern mobile solutions.

My areas of experience include:

• AI / ML: Automated trading logic, predictive models, P2P optimization, AI system integration, Dify-based workflows, ML pipelines
• Blockchain: Smart contract development, Ethereum/Solana ecosystems, dApps, token design
• Frontend / Full-Stack: React Native, React.js, multi-stack workflows
• Design: Practical and clean UI/UX aimed at smooth user experiences
• Additional Tech: Python, Node.js, TypeScript, API work, cloud services

If anyone needs someone who can blend AI functionality with blockchain systems and deliver polished, reliable solutions, feel free to reach out privately anytime.

[frosty oriole]

fyi we dont really allow this sort of thing on this server

[charred tusk]

!rule ad paid hire

[edgy kraken]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

9. Do not offer or ask for paid work of any kind.

[proud escarp]

!rule 6 9

[peak relic]

nice

[hoary cairn]

after i finish w3school, is there any other content i should look into, to learn

for python the tut

[brisk gazelle]

Literally anything other than w3schools.

Be finished with it now.

[hoary cairn]

[brisk gazelle]

!resources

[edgy kraken]

Resources

The Resources page on our website contains a list of hand-selected learning resources that we regularly recommend to both beginners and experts.

[young flare]

Go make projects

Just learning concepts won't be enough

[brisk gazelle]

!kindling

[edgy kraken]

Kindling Projects

The Kindling projects page contains a list of projects and ideas programmers can tackle to build their skills and knowledge.

[hoary cairn]

I use chat gpt to give me beginner projects lol

[hoary cairn]

Thxs

[young flare]

Its fine to use ai to give you project ideas but try avoid using it to help you make the project

[hoary cairn]

Nah it just gives me ideas

[young flare]

Cool

[solemn rain]

Give me a Ci/Cd workflow

example

[edgy fractal]

when converting a variable to another type i use the same name for both types because its more concise but pylance complains
how can i suppress this complaint or this practice is not recommended ?

[solemn rain]

You can't call a dog a cat

But depends

what are you converting

[grave tree]

Can you share your code that pylance is complaining about?

[young flare]

if you've type annotated a variable to specific type before and then again reassign the variable to another type, your type checker will complain

but share your code also

[edgy fractal]

a file path(str) and an opened file object both share the same name
should i just append path to said str variables name and call it a day?

[grave tree]

Can you share the code that pylance is complaining about?

[edgy fractal]

file = "path/to/file"
file = open(file, "r")

[solemn rain]

i think its better to be explicit with the naming
But depends on the person

[grave tree]

That seems odd to do. Why not just combine it into one line if you're immediately re-assigning it?

[hasty island]

why not this

file_path = "path/to/file"
file = open(file_path, "r")

[edgy fractal]

i dont know, variable names can get lenghty with this approach

[hasty island]

are you re-using the path anywhere else?

[solemn rain]

Its ok to have descriptive names

[edgy fractal]

ok i think this example is better

def open_file(file: str):
  file = open(file, "r")

[hasty island]

there comes a point where you abbreviate and add a comment instead - this is not that point

[grave tree]

so was the above not actually the code pylance is complaining about?

[edgy fractal]

it was just a hypothetical example

[grave tree]

Oh. So no

[hasty island]

a. I'd still use file_path and then file
b. might I suggest pathlib.Path.open ?

!d pathlib.Path.open

[edgy kraken]

pathlib.Path.open

Path.open(mode='r', buffering=-1, encoding=None, errors=None, newline=None)```
Open the file pointed to by the path, like the built-in [`open()`](https://docs.python.org/3/library/functions.html#open) function does...

[edgy fractal]

language servers show the comment when you hover over variable name right?

[hasty island]

they show docstrings, idk if they show comments

[hasty island]

there's also read/write methods you get with the Path class

[idle fulcrum]

evening y'all

[idle fulcrum]

I don't think you can document an individual variable but you could if it were a function parameter

[granite wyvern]

You can do this:

x : int

in your code.

Or do you mean:

x : int
# for holding x values

[round orbit]

hey

[hasty island]

pretty unusual, but you can

[idle fulcrum]

oh for type yeah

I figured they meant for a doc comment

[idle fulcrum]

that's interesting it recognizes that

so you put the doc comment after the variable?

[hasty island]

that's generally how doc-strings in python work

[pallid garden]

curious, jsdoc is before the variable

[hasty island]

after the class/function definition, that translates over here

[idle fulcrum]

I guess that's true, they typically go inside

[hasty island]

most doc comments are before

[idle fulcrum]

is that vscode?

[hasty island]

neovim

[idle fulcrum]

ah ok

[hasty island]

should work in vsc just the same

[idle fulcrum]

i wonder how wide the ide support is for documenting variables

[hasty island]

that is upto the lsp you're using

[granite wyvern]

They may have. I lack context.

[idle fulcrum]

i don't even think it's supported in java

[hasty island]

the editor probably shouldn't and doesn't make a distinction between variables and functions/classnames etc.

[idle fulcrum]

Ideally, though I think it would have to practically speaking

it needs a different route to identify all those things

but they should all be handled as identifiers

[hasty island]

that's your lsp/formatter/syntax highlighters job, which are plug and play for most modern editors

[idle fulcrum]

lsp certainly

the syntax highlighters are usually pretty dumb compared to the lsp

[hasty island]

there are extensions you can get on vsc on a per language basis

[idle fulcrum]

do you use source-highlight ?

[hasty island]

on neovim, I just stick to treesitter

[idle fulcrum]

I use it as a utility to just read source code and as a library on a couple applications, but it sadly misidentifies things all the time

I think it's probably token based

[hasty island]

vsc on the rare ocassion I use it is just mostly ootb

[idle fulcrum]

treesitter I've read about

is it mostly used in the vim ecosystem

.pypi treesitter

aw

i know there is an adapter package

[hasty island]

!pip tree-sitter

[edgy kraken]

tree-sitter v0.25.2

Python bindings to the Tree-sitter parsing library

Released on <t:1758821879:D>.

[idle fulcrum]

ah! there it is

what is the name you import it with

oh there's a dono banner on pypi now

[hasty island]

tree_sitter and tree_sitter_<language> for language specific extensions (that you install separately)

[idle fulcrum]

ah cool

[hasty island]

hm, I wonder why those are separate packages and not like package groups

[idle fulcrum]

is a package group a thing?

[hasty island]

might be using the wrong term but they exist

package[feature]

[idle fulcrum]

oh interesting

yeah I've seen those square brackets once before I think?

I wonder what that's all about

@inland karma probably knows

[hasty island]

specifying which parts and/or extra parts you want to get

[idle fulcrum]

it's about his time to get online

lol

[patent kestrel]

yea those are called extras

[idle fulcrum]

haha I just read that

[hasty island]

e.g in tree sitter I'd expect something like this
tree-sitter - core package
tree-sitter[full] - core package + all available extras
tree-sitter[python] - core package + python extras
and so on

[idle fulcrum]

!pep 508

[edgy kraken]

**PEP 508 - Dependency specification for Python Software Packages**

Status

Final

Created

11-Nov-2015

Type

Standards Track

[idle fulcrum]

oh so it even has virtual extra packages lol

with full

that would be what I'd install

so it's for "optional dependencies"

[inland karma]

good morning

[inland karma]

yes

[inland karma]

knows what

[hasty island]

about extras

[inland karma]

yes extra optiional dependencies

[idle fulcrum]

good morning!

how extensively is this used?

[inland karma]

very

almost all librraries use them, almost no packages use them

[idle fulcrum]

so tree sitter is just an odd one out

[inland karma]

it would be bad to have tree-sitter and tree-sitter-python under two names

[idle fulcrum]

since they didn't appear to organize their add-ons into official extra

[idle fulcrum]

I don't think I understand?

[inland karma]

the alternative is to make two seperate packages

[idle fulcrum]

tree-sitter-python would be to parse python code wouldn't it

[hasty island]

(that's what they're currently doing)

[inland karma]

oh.. i see... yes i see

extra optiional dependencies are the solution to this problem for a package

[hasty island]

hm, is this issue worthy?

[inland karma]

it is our own fault as well, we dont share how awsome it is to use

[inland karma]

a rewrite of the package architecture..... it is at least dddiscussion worthy

[idle fulcrum]

that's a big topic

i feel like python is in a constant cat and mouse game with its own packaging ecosystem

[inland karma]

yes, by design.. pun intended

[idle fulcrum]

at least the system we do have was intentionally designed

.pythonfact

[verbal wedge]

Python Facts

The Python logo is based on Mayan representations of snakes!

Suggestions

Suggest more facts here!

[hasty island]

hm, doesn't look like someone has brought it up before

[idle fulcrum]

the particular issue with extras?

[hasty island]

yeah

they have a discord, lemme try asking there

[upper quartz]

@broken flower

[thorn mist]

guys django or flask

[hasty island]

actually, looks like their whole project structure is fragmented like that

[inland karma]

btw, anyone heard about PythoC? i just came over the name today a few minutes ago

[grizzled solar]

PsychoC

[peak relic]

Django

[hasty island]

https://github.com/tree-sitter/ each language extension is living in it's own repo and has separate releases

[thorn mist]

alr

[inland karma]

they solve differnt problems in the same field...

i like and use django more, but i like that django has everything included

[frail stirrup]

so why but

[inland karma]

i dont like to make all the choices myself

if you want full flexibility, you have to write everythiing yourself

and that is fine if you want that, go with flask and write everything yourself

[peak relic]

Its an opinionated framework

meaning it enforces you to build it in a certain way

[thorn mist]

which one is easier

[peak relic]

they're both easy.

[thorn mist]

comparatively

[inland karma]

nothing here is easy, but flask is simpler

[thorn mist]

ok

[inland karma]

it takes a long time to learn django, you can learn everything about flask in a day

[peak relic]

and if you want something as simple like Flask but still like Django, you could look at NanoDjango

[inland karma]

and sometimes your backend just needs an api.. and then you have fastAPI as well

[jagged linden]

How do i code a phonetic alphabet maker that turns letters in a word into phonetic alphabets

[peak relic]

like A is Alpha? B for Bravo?

[jagged linden]

Yep

[peak relic]

Maybe just hardcode the values into a dictionary

wait... did you mean radio call signs or the sound of the letter?

[inland karma]

well.. a mapping would work for both those

[jagged linden]

Just printing a string

[peak relic]

radio call signs are A for Alpha, B for Bravo, etc. Sounds of the letter would be like Ay, Bee, See...

[jagged linden]

Like turning a word into its phonetic form

[inland karma]

lets be explicit, are you talking about the NATO Phonetic ALphabet?

[peak relic]

so if the word is CAT, are you expecting, Charlie, Alpha, Tango or Cee, Ay, Tee?

[jagged linden]

Charlie, Alpha and Tango

The Nato Phonetic alphabet

[inland karma]

make a mapping between letter and word

[jagged linden]

Can someone please make an example code

[inland karma]

do you know what a dict is?

[sand jewel]

Of what

[half grotto]

bro i completed the python lang. now i don't known what should i learn.. Like an libraries, A.I & ML, Data science, Data Analyse? can u people help me ?

[jagged linden]

An example code of my phonetic alphabet code

[inland karma]

make something

[jagged linden]

I don't know how to do it

[inland karma]

do you know what a dict is?

[peak relic]

once you have a dictionary you can then call the value from its key.

nato = {"A":"Alpha"}
print(nato["A"]) # This outputs Alpha

[jagged linden]

I Know what a dict is

Oh that's how

[inland karma]

ok.. so use a dict

[sand jewel]

I guess It's your choice . Btw thats data analyst . I am learning

[peak relic]

Sounds like you wanna do AI/ML stuff. You can go to https://kaggle.com/learn to get started and branch off from there

[slim knot]

random q - anyone used Socrates AI for python project planning?
saw it on socratesai.dev, supposedly helps with architecture before coding. generates file structures, catches dependency/security gaps, etc.
wondering if it actually understands python specific stuff like package structure, virtual envs, extras (speaking of extras lol), or if it's just generic
might be useful for bigger django/fastapi projects? idk

[half grotto]

is dict stand for dictionary?

[peak relic]

yes

[sand jewel]

Yes

[peak relic]

never heard of it

[inland karma]

its not an simple question to answer, do you know how LLMs work?

[frosty oriole]

sounds like a terrible idea

[slim knot]

well if you ever get the chance to try it out, it would be good to see if there is any sort of validation before I use it regularly

[sand jewel]

Before coding?

[jagged linden]

And how to detect if an input answer is not an integer, i am making a guess a number game

So it says "That's Not A Number" if anything other than a number is typed

[slim knot]

yah it provides some sort of implementation plan context

[peak relic]

by then, you might as well do your own file structure

[half grotto]

Do u have any free resource on data analyst?

[peak relic]

>>> x = "a"
>>> x.isdigit()
False

[slim knot]

well I am trying to match it up, I only tried with a small project, it seems to create the coding archetictural decisions for me

[inland karma]

two ways, check if the string only contains digits. or try to convert it to a number, like integer or float, and catch the error if it fails

[jagged linden]

Ok thanks

[half grotto]

@sand jewel Do u have any free resource on data analyst?

[sand jewel]

youtube

[peak relic]

Check the pinned message in #data-science-and-ml

[inland karma]

i would not go anywhere near youtube

[sand jewel]

Why it's also a python discussion?

[peak relic]

huh?

[inland karma]

the whole server is about python

[sand jewel]

Then why we don't talk about python data science here

[inland karma]

you can

[peak relic]

The pinned messages in #data-science-and-ml is more topically focused than in this channel

[inland karma]

but we have dedicated channels for a reason

[mint loom]

Cuz you don’t know a lot

[sand jewel]

Why I go to #data-science-and-ml for a little answer

[inland karma]

dont be mean

[peak relic]

its not a little answer tho

[mint loom]

Not mean lol

[inland karma]

because the answer is in the pinned comment

[inland karma]

you where, now please be kind and friendly instead. you already said you would be when you joined

[inland karma]

do you know what a pinned comment is on discord?

[peak relic]

but its not problem to talk about data science, AI and ML here too.

[sand jewel]

I am new so I don't know I can only message

[inland karma]

let me show you

[mint loom]

You already said you would be when you joined?? Fuh is you on about

[mint loom]

But okay I won’t be mean

[bronze dragon]

when you joined the server you agreed to the rules and code of conduct

[inland karma]

five days ago you said you had read and understood our #rules

!rule 1

[edgy kraken]

Rules

1. Follow the Python Discord Code of Conduct.

[inland karma]

and you said you had read and understood this rule @mint loom

Being kind and courteous to others
Using welcoming and inclusive language
...

among many more things @mint loom

hope i made it more clear now!

[inland karma]

perrfect! thank you

[sand jewel]

@peak relic why delte the video?

[peak relic]

I didn't #ot1-perplexing-regexing message

[sand jewel]

Ohh

[inland karma]

ahh... nice! 😄

i dont really use the mobile client, so i keep forgetting you can do many things there as well

[quasi shuttle]

does anyone know if its possible to have fastapi accept a byte object as part of a json request object ideally by decoding a base64 string into a bytes object?

[peak relic]

Yea I noticed he's on mobile so he might have missed it

[inland karma]

you can send bytes as a request

so the answer is yes you can

base64 to bytes string is a sensible solution as well

[quasi shuttle]

i dont want the request body to be just the bytes i need to keep the json structure

[worn moth]

JSON is not designed to store bytes as values. That's why we use BASE64

[inland karma]

yeah, just send a base64 payload

[jagged belfry]

Presuambly fastapi has a field post processing step you could hook into

[quasi shuttle]

nvm turns out i was using AAAA as my b64 test string which happens to be 0x0

[inland karma]

null byte moment! 😄

[jagged belfry]

Yeah

pydantic has EncodedBytes

[quasi shuttle]

i was using pydantic Base64Bytes and its working now

[inland karma]

Annotated bytes as an example

[jagged belfry]

The web design on their docs is annoying me

you want to go to the reference? Are you sure you don't want to look at the tutorial?
I don't think clicking "Reference" should direct me to the tutorial

Changing versions resets you to the homepage, which is obnoxious

The types reference page has six million lines of text and a dozen entries.. and the TOC doesn't scroll

[inland karma]

thanks @jagged belfrynow it will annoy me as well... 😄 😄