python-discussion

[cerulean ravine]

with the GIL, cpu-bound threads don't help, it's true.

[rotund surge]

Hi yall!

[cerulean ravine]

hey hey

[rotund surge]

What are we discussing about?

[cerulean ravine]

the usual, Python

[rotund surge]

I can’t wait for 3.14

[silver plover]

Good thing it's available already 🙂

[granite wyvern]

So indeed. they can't wait.

[rotund surge]

I have not updated my computer yet been busy with work.

[twin turtle]

thx you and everyone who helped

[finite rose]

I think the fact that you can turn off the GIL means you can write your python code to run faster. (For certain problems, designs, etc.) So it’s not necessarily an issue of “should I write this in Python or Java or C?”, it’s “I have this python code base and now I may be able to make it run faster.”

[rotund surge]

Thx!

[bleak moth]

I'm thinking of doing this to name a file after it's location in the hive:

SaveKey(key_object._key, f"~/.{key_object.hive.name}" +
    f"{key_object.path.replace('\\', '.')}.breg")

[cerulean ravine]

definitely free-threaded builds and subinterpreters open up possibilities

[celest osprey]

does alpha2 not release today

[cerulean ravine]

it looks like 3.15a2 is delayed due to the cloudflare problems

[celest osprey]

oh rip

[opal gull]

Even python relies on Cloudflare💔

[warm scarab]

isn't it back up now?

[proud escarp]

wdym

like each thread has a lock? so the threads started in a non-main thread wont be free?

they would be concurrent?

[edgy sandal]

I want to make an app using python does anyone have any advice on where to start

[fluid ridge]

... doesn't python use fastly?

er, the psf's web services

[cerulean ravine]

it was github actions that slowed it down

[wooden frigate]

If u don't know how to start may be you need to start with an ai

[cerulean ravine]

https://mastodon.social/@hugovk/115572916569187287

Hugo van Kemenade (@[e-mail])

OK ok github I'll finish up the 3.15 alpha release tomorrow...

githubstatus.com/incidents/5q7…

Mastodon · Nov 18, 2025, 9:52 PM

[ornate wren]

Same Python is like Rome for I.A, but i don't like this language lol

[paper oar]

hi

[ornate wren]

For backend a strong typed language is way better

[harsh anchor]

each object

[cerulean ravine]

python is great for backends, and you can do as much static type checking as you want.

[ornate wren]

Coming from a C++ and C# experience (asp.net core is great), i don't feel like that

[cerulean ravine]

i can see that you don't.

[cerulean ravine]

have you used a type checker with Python?

[ornate wren]

Not yet, i have use the type hints in some places, not everywhere

[cerulean ravine]

you will like it

[silver plover]

#python-discussion message has some tips on where to start

[ornate wren]

Maybe i'm stuck in the mentality of : types are enforced (like c#, c++, typescript) or no types (javascript, lua, etc)

[brisk gazelle]

If someone writes a new static type checking engine, they could call it Van de Graaff.

[rare gazelle]

i found something very weird in the typing system, but probably others know about it

[silver plover]

It's definitely an adjustment. It took me a long time to get past the weirdness and embrace the pythonanity.

[cerulean ravine]

why not enforce types in Python?

[dusty ember]

maybe you've heard of typescript for javascript. python doesn't have a separate language built on top of it, but if you use type hints in your code, you can use static type checkers to statically check them.

[rare gazelle]

say u have 2 types, one is a subclass of another
noow in 1 overload u're accepting the subclass, in another the superclass
the type checker will try its best to use the subclass, even if its less explicit

[ornate wren]

Yeah, that is true, first time with python, i only had experience with javascript and lua when it comes to pure dynamic languages

[ornate wren]

I should try it

[rare gazelle]

even if its not the first overload

[ornate wren]

Yeah

[silver plover]

Personally, I'd argue for: embrace the Python approach and see where that brings you, I get pretty far with "somewhat typed" (basic?) and not strict pyright.

[ornate wren]

Honestly, coding without types feels like a disorganized world, like something is missing

I accept it in javascript because i'm not doing anything complex with it

[silver plover]

I feel that... but when you go through the looking glass, suddenly it feels like freedom.

(at least for me)

[rare gazelle]

i think it depends

sometimes u need perfect types, sometimes u dont

🤷‍♂️

[sweet isle]

yo guys, working with a small database issue rn
I currently have a table that keeps track of a session, and another table for slots. each session has multiple slots

then I have a session attendee table that currently only keeps tracks of attendees for a slot, and I need to do a long query to check if an attendee is in another slot

is it recommended to just add a sessionID column to attendees? or do the query

[silver plover]

So you want to track: session, slot, attendee name?

[ornate wren]

do ateendee belongs to the session?

[dusty ember]

lowkey the worst debugging ive had to do was an entirely vibecoded untyped JS frontend

there were no introspections for anything 😭

[sweet isle]

yep, rn I just want to do a check if an attendee is part of a slot that's in the same session before they can get transfered or etc

like if a session has slot1 and slot2, and an attendee signs up for slot1, I want to do a query to see if the attendee is in slot1 of the session before transfering them to slot2 if they request

[ornate wren]

if the ateende belongs to a certain session adding the sessionId colunm is pretty ok

[sweet isle]

yes

[sweet isle]

hm okay

[silver plover]

Roughly, the textbook approach is to have a: session table, a session_slot table, an attendee table, and a slot_attendee association table.

[sweet isle]

im only worried about future usecases where there might be an attendee that needs to attend 2 sessions

[sweet isle]

what'd the slot_attendee do?

[silver plover]

You could also just put the attendee_id in the session_slot

[sweet isle]

each slot can have several attendees

[silver plover]

Yah, then you need a separate slot_attendee.

which stores slot_id, attendee_id

[ornate wren]

That will do, but i got one question why we can't add an attendee id colunm to the session_slot table and instead add an assocition table?

[silver plover]

Because each slot can have several attendees, and an attendee can have multiple slots.

[sweet isle]

might work actually, ty

[silver plover]

Basically, think of the relationships of each: is it 1 to 1? 1 to many? or many to many?

[ornate wren]

That makes sense, i was working wit the idea the ateendee can only occupy one slot

1 to 1 would not require a assocition table i believe

[sweet isle]

ah okay

[silver plover]

yup, need the association when you have a many to many situation.

[sweet isle]

but assuming that each attendee should only have one slot, what would be the best solution here?

[silver plover]

Then you could put the slot_id in the attendee table.

So that a slot can have multiple attendees, but an attendee can only have one slot.

[ornate wren]

1 to many

[sweet isle]

sry typo, I mean session

what if each attendee can only sign up for one slot within a session at a time

[cursive hawk]

anyone want to be apart of my project im working on ?

[silver plover]

In the association table, you'd have: session_id, slot_id, attendee id. And, set a unique_key on (session_id, attendee_id)

[sweet isle]

ah okay

ty for the help

[ornate wren]

i was thinking a 1 to 1 would work in this situation

[hallow verge]

hey! im looking for an experienced Python programmer preferably one who knows about the requests module and can teach me how to perform post/get requests with it!

[ornate wren]

But adding a table for that with the unique keys garantee his requirement

[hallow verge]

help me w this guys

[ornate wren]

You should announce your project better (sell it ) otherwise people won't feel its attractive to work on it

[sweet isle]

yea I think this is the best way

[silver plover]

It gets complicated to enforce all business logic in the database... in some cases, we can make it simple. Adding a session id to attendee could lead to a discrepancy where the slot-attendee relationship is inconsistent with the attendee-session relationship

[cursive hawk]

its a clash royale ai thing

[ornate wren]

So its a game?

[silver plover]

Open a help thread plz: #❓｜how-to-get-help

[hallow verge]

anyone experienced with pip install requests

[cursive hawk]

a ai that plays a game yes

[hallow verge]

👍

[ornate wren]

Is that ok? i mean does that count as a bot that violates the game terms of service?

[cursive hawk]

idk really im just doing it for fun

[ornate wren]

Yeah, i would not add the sesson id to the ateende, but i would need some a query to garantee the ateende is not using another slot in the same session, using the association table is simpler

Database modeling can be fun btw

A lot of times the whole application is "done" after you got the model right

You just need some crud in your favorite language, some checks business logic and its done

[ornate wren]

There is this free open source game called 0 AD

Its a lot like age of empires 1 - 2

I wish the AI was better

Its random but i ask myself how good an LLM would play against a real person

[cursive hawk]

the one i had before i lost my usb it was on did fairly well tbh lol

[ornate wren]

You lost the code / prompts?

[distant bough]

@ornate wren Dude 0 AD was still fun to play even though it was easy.

[cursive hawk]

sadly yes lol idk where the usb went

but the one im working on now is 20x better no joke

[bleak moth]

Think of it this way, even when types are not "enforced" by a type checker, everything still has a type.

[ornate wren]

Of course, its just missing the hints (lol)

[ornate wren]

The game is good itself but if you are playing offline against the A.I very soon it becomes boring

[bleak moth]

Bingo! I use VSCode, Pylance, and the Python plugin, and every time I write a method, it tells me the types for the parameters and return values.

Ugh. New keyswitches coming in thursday, and have new keycaps already.

[frail stirrup]

if i have numpy activate on a python file thats in my C drive and use a virtual enviorenment in my D drive in vscode that wont ruin anything right

[distant bough]

This.

[jagged belfry]

nope, should work fine

[hollow fox]

aye should i use tkinter for making little desktop applications or is there something better?

[unborn lagoon]

It's probably okay for a quick app or two. If you want a bit more than that, then you can start considering other frameworks like Qt or web-related stuff.

[hollow fox]

ok thanks

[merry pollen]

use pyside or pyqt

[hollow fox]

do you know how easy it is to get started?

what are the differences between them?

[merry pollen]

tkinter is more lightweight, however pyside/pyqt are heavier but much more flexible

[alpine glacier]

Hi guys..can anyone help me pls

[merry pollen]

in addition you have the whole qt ecosystem, like qt3d, qt multimedia, qt bluetooth, if you ever need it

it is a bit more complicated than tkinter for GUI, but if you're learning a GUI framework anyway you might as well put in the bit extra work

[unborn lagoon]

PySide and PyQt rely on the same framework (Qt) and have very slight differences. I personally like PySide more since it's the official binding. Relative to Tk, Qt usually imposes a more object-oriented approach so it introduces some complexity in that way.

[merry pollen]

same for me, pyside is the offical binding

[hollow fox]

ok thanks

[merry pollen]

however there are like 5 differences total between pyside and pyqt (i'm serious, lol)

[hollow fox]

lmao

[merry pollen]

there's no reason to not use pyside though, better support from qt company

[merry pollen]

what's your issue?

[hollow fox]

yeah i think ima play around with pyside

[granite wyvern]

If you go with tkinter, bookmark this: https://tkdocs.com/shipman/index-2.html
It is extremely useful.

[merry pollen]

https://www.pythonguis.com/pyside6-tutorial/

[hollow fox]

thanks ima definitely use this

[merry pollen]

this is a tutorial for QtWidgets, one of two ways to build UIs in qt the other way is QML

[hollow fox]

ok

[merry pollen]

QML is more modern, the coding for the UI is simpler and it's easier to use with animations, but it's harder to interop with python since it's like a seperate coding language that you run through qt, QWidgets is more mature, is 100% directly in your python code so it's easier to make gui->python interactions, but is a biiit more clunky than QML

it doesn't really matter which one you learn first since QML is so different, just learn qtwidgets because it gives you a better overview of how to work with qt in python

you learn how to handle qobjects, signals and slots, etc easier through QWidgets, then you can bring that knowelge into qml later if you wish

anyway let me not infodump on you go learn lol

[hollow fox]

ok lmao

im glad i have more over view though and not picking a random library and hoping it does the job

[merry pollen]

yeah yeah, np

[gaunt cape]

I learned python but never built anything. You guys have any concept to work on? something creative.

[finite yacht]

https://github.com/awesome-open-source-projects/percent

Look at this masterpiece

[gaunt cape]

Meow

[harsh anchor]

conway's game of life

[gaunt cape]

Meow? Meow didn't understand

[finite yacht]

What do you think

[finite yacht]

Oh for the live if god

Unhinged rp

[bronze dragon]

It's a simulation that you can program.

Just look it up

[gaunt cape]

Meow meow~....... Gotta look up

[gaunt cape]

Oh meow. It sounds fun. I will return when this project is ready. MEOW

[gaunt cape]

This was funny Meow's laughing

[mossy sigil]

hello

[finite yacht]

Add pr meow gaha

[gaunt cape]

Meow didn't understand again. Meow's dumb.

[gaunt cape]

I didn't notice that was your project Meow

[finite yacht]

Make a pull request 😅

Yes it is

[mossy sigil]

is a pull request the same as a put?

[finite yacht]

What

In this case maybe

[bronze dragon]

What do you mean by a "put"?

[gaunt cape]

I don't use github. How do I do that? (It's so embarrassing)

[mossy sigil]

a put request is it the same as a push

[gaunt cape]

push maybe?

[gaunt cape]

If I made git, I might have used pick/put too

[mossy sigil]

oh ur taking about git

thought u meant the request module

[bronze dragon]

Not really
Pushing to a repository implies that you have write access to that repository.
But a pull request means you request someone who does have write access to merge your changes.

[mossy sigil]

my bad gang

[gaunt cape]

No Meow wasn't talking about git there. Meow meow

@finite yacht Would you like to have a module that would do Financial mathematics using this?

[gaunt cape]

New knowledge unlocked

[jovial oxide]

any other suggestions that isnt cs50? He's a great teacher just moevs way to fast for my little brain

[pallid garden]

pause the video

[gaunt cape]

Pause when you don't understand something, rewind or lookup for that point which you didn't understand and then move forward.

Because you won't be able to see your progress if you keep changing tutorials and motivation is important to keep going.

[jovial oxide]

fair point

[bronze dragon]

Maybe a book or other written material would suit you better?

[ornate wren]

😂

[gaunt cape]

@finite yacht << Support for Percent Ranges: Allow users to calculate percentages for a range of values, making bulk processing easier. >> Maybe I would like to work on this but I need to know what is means. (I AM SO DUMBB)

[ornate wren]

Since you can't ask the teacher then search your question / doubt using either google or chatgpt

[jovial oxide]

ai is ass i've heard been tryna avoid

[gaunt cape]

ChatGPT makes me more confused that Wikipedia these days

[bronze dragon]

See: Automate the Boring Stuff, Helsinki Python MOOC

[jovial oxide]

will do ty

[gaunt cape]

I loved this book

[ornate wren]

Not my experience but idk, ask it to search the internet LLMs are more reliable with better data / context

[pallid garden]

if you are asking it to search the internet then you might as well use google?

[gaunt cape]

Meow, I use ChatGPT for many things but not for learning things I don't really know about.

[ornate wren]

it will scan the internet for me and then will try to condense the knowledge so it works better than googling a lot of times

[gaunt cape]

I only use it for schedules, writing snippets of codes to save my time etc

[pallid garden]

why does condensing the knowledge matter?

[gaunt cape]

This matter is actually controversial. Different people have different opinions about AIs based on their experience. Meow

[jovial oxide]

ruff

[gaunt cape]

llm to be specific

[ornate wren]

Yeah, that makes sense, you should atleast have a general knowledge of the subject or the area so you won't be misguided that easily

[pallid garden]

pretty good, i use it myself

[bronze dragon]

Synthesizing useful information from the huge mass of it available online from traditional searching is not a trivial task. It's useful to have it done for you, modulo hallucinations etc.

[jovial oxide]

? he said meow

[gaunt cape]

Yep Yep! I don't discourage people from using llm

[ornate wren]

i will do it myself if its not the AI doing it, i mean my method always been searching the subject, opening multiple tabs and scanning the website for the relevant stuff

[pallid garden]

it's a joke

[jovial oxide]

o

[ornate wren]

he is a cat, obviously

[gaunt cape]

Meow?

[jovial oxide]

ruff

[pallid garden]

perhaps there is a problem with technical writing then

[jovial oxide]

just peed on my owners leg😛

[ornate wren]

are you an eastern european cat?

[gaunt cape]

Haha meow meow. There is a script called rocketmeow that I made. I don't know how to use git or github

[jovial oxide]

me either

[opal gull]

well you know the difference between the two

[ornate wren]

Anyway, A.I is useful, but honestly its good for popular things

[gaunt cape]

I learned about that in a meme and comment section

[gaunt cape]

True

[gaunt cape]

Meow is actually from South Asia. Meow

[ornate wren]

you mean cats are from south asia?

not a cat called vladimir

[bronze dragon]

Sure. But even if the individual pieces of writing are all high quality, if there is a large amount of them, it takes time to read all of them and combine their knowledge.

[gaunt cape]

Meow chose Vladimir because. Actually there is a long story behind Meow acting like a cat. I can speak lil Russian

[ornate wren]

Right

[pallid garden]

if the writing is high quality and doesnt talk about unnecessary fluff, then it reasons that the LLM is removing useful information in order to shorten the knowledge?

[ornate wren]

Because there is no single source of truth or knowledge

Nor in a book much less in a website

[pallid garden]

i guess sometimes you just want to learn how to use a function, and other times you want to know every possible ways you can use a function

[alpine glacier]

Guys i want help

[gaunt cape]

It's like seeing things from far to decide your destination. Once decided you can dive deeper with real technical writings.

[bronze dragon]

Your immediate needs are probably narrower than the full scope of the full set of documents. And summaries are always lossy; they are useful regardless.

[gaunt cape]

Meow will help, what happened?

[ornate wren]

If you have means to condense some knowledge, like keep what is similar in all sources but then highlights what is different, that is a more complete knowledge

[pallid garden]

still, isnt the ability to synthesize information and pick out what you need a necessary skill to learn?

[alpine glacier]

I want to make a extension..using chatgpt which saves the link of whatever videos i watch in youtube so what can I do

[gaunt cape]

Maybe? maybe

[pallid garden]

bookmarks?

[ornate wren]

humans will always need to do that as long as they are making decisions

[ashen thicket]

youtube watch history

[alpine glacier]

How can bookmarks saves the video of whatever i watch

[gaunt cape]

Meow knows nothing about extension sadly. I don't even use them

[bronze dragon]

It is for sure. I completely agree. I'm just saying that LLMs are not entirely pointless.

[alpine glacier]

But instagram doesnt have watch history so

[ornate wren]

you said youtube

[ashen thicket]

u said youtube only

[pallid garden]

bookmarks?

[ornate wren]

this is fun

[ashen thicket]

i think he wants to autosave to make a virtual history

[alpine glacier]

What about Instagram+ youtube only has watch history..it doesn't save the link automatically

[alpine glacier]

What bookmarks gonna do

[bronze dragon]

What do you mean by "save the link"? Like automatically download the video for archival?

[alpine glacier]

I want it to save in Google sheet automatically

[pallid garden]

do you want to save some videos or every single videos you watch?

[gaunt cape]

It's not about saving webpages sadly

[ornate wren]

You want the extension to see that you are watching a video and add it to a list that you can check later

[ashen thicket]

he wants to read the link and write it into a spreadsheet for every different video

[alpine glacier]

Save the link of whatever i watch in social media and save it in Google sheet

[ornate wren]

what is your usecase btw?

[alpine glacier]

So i can know what i watch

[ornate wren]

Ok, but how useful it is?

[ashen thicket]

u are basically creating a watch history right

[ornate wren]

To know what you watch

[alpine glacier]

Yes

[bronze dragon]

This is fairly doable if you restrict yourself to only using social media on a browser. If you use apps I expect it'll be much more difficult.

[ashen thicket]

well i get it because sometimes there are very pretty girls in reels that u accidentally scroll past and we can't rewatch

[pallid garden]

it's impossible

[pallid garden]

what the fuck

[rare gazelle]

.topic

[verbal wedge]

**Which Python project are you the most proud of making?**

Suggest more topics here!

[ornate wren]

Why you can't rewatch?

[ashen thicket]

if you accidentally leave the scrolling session there is no history to rewatch it

you can only rewatch if you are able to scroll up back

[ornate wren]

true

[opal gull]

😭

[alpine glacier]

See guys I have different email id for different purpose..one for coding and another for something else so I only watch that kinda of videos in that type of email id like that so ai of social media only recommends me that only like that

[rare gazelle]

.toipc

.topic

[verbal wedge]

**Which Python feature do you love the most?**

Suggest more topics here!

[ornate wren]

an email dedicated only for thirsty traps

I like the idea

[rare gazelle]

🤔

[ornate wren]

Social media is full of that shit

[ashen thicket]

hahaha i get it

[rare gazelle]

if not having its own scope

probably one of my favorites

[celest tendon]

Damn so much effort

[alpine glacier]

So what can I do so i can know what videos am watching

[alpine glacier]

What else I can do..

[celest tendon]

use that mode 🤯

[alpine glacier]

What mode

[celest tendon]

The one which doesn't save anything so that nothing of that topic is recommended in future to you

[alpine glacier]

You mean guest mode

[celest tendon]

Yeah

[dry pike]

h

[tacit aspen]

why is there no web dev servers

[visual juniper]

there are , i dont know what you are talking about

[pallid garden]

https://discord.gg/Gtv4JHPU

[visual juniper]

also
https://discord.gg/e7GSEdTj
https://discord.gg/code

https://discord.gg/474nEvJ8
https://discord.gg/VMukKVsD

these two are javascript servers , so a ton of webdev in there too

[peak relic]

also #web-development but y'know... with Python

[dry pike]

spammoment

[wanton sandal]

has anyone used Positron?

[peak relic]

Try asking the question directly in #data-science-and-ml . Don't ask if "anyone" has used it. Just ask what about it

I have a script running in my Task Scheduler but it keeps popping up the console window every single time, which is annoying. How do I make it run without showing up the window?

Currently its action is set with C:\path\to\uv.exe, arguments as run main.py

I tried with -q but it still pops up the terminal window

[rugged star]

How about renaming it to main.pyw?

[pallid garden]

you might want to check stack exchange for suggestions

[peak relic]

I'll try the .pyw

[pallid garden]

there is a suggested solution about checking "Run whether the user is logged in or not"

[peak relic]

I'll have a look at that too

[alpine glacier]

Ignoring me 🥲

[peak relic]

This doesn't sound like its Python related

[alpine glacier]

Where can I ask then?

[peak relic]

Offtopic channels

!ot

[edgy kraken]

Off-topic channel

#ot2-never-nester’s-nightmare

Please read our off-topic etiquette before participating in conversations.

[peak relic]

I tried .pyw. Still pops up. I'll try what zehata suggested

apparently, my uv was at version 0.6

the latest version is 0.9

and it has uvw similar to pythonw

upgraded, switched to using uvw, and it works

nice and quiet background process

thanks for coming to my TED Talk

[open coral]

is Fluent Python suitable as a second book for learning python?

[peak relic]

yup

[mossy sigil]

I have a question
If i change something in a code
How do I cross check where else it will effect
So that the other functions that are dependent on the variable or function whatever does not get effected.
I cannot check usages with values being passed around dynamically I am unsure of.

[rugged star]

Oh didnt know uv had a uvw

[peak relic]

neither did I until a few minutes ago

We all learn something new today

[peak relic]

I would run unit test to see if at least the core functionality is affected or not. Otherwise, manual test each function one by one.

[rare gazelle]

how can i do:

class a(Generic[A,B,C]):
  b = a[int,str,list]

it says Undefined name 'a'

in ruff

[wary lily]

hi guys

what ide do you guys use

i dont have a computer rn

so im just using online ides on borrowed laptops

but i’m gonna get my own soon

so i was wondering

[dry pike]

type b = a[int, str, list]

[rare gazelle]

i dont use the 3.12 type system

[dry pike]

then, a is not defined

[lyric mist]

i'm just getting into python, not sure if this is the place to ask simple questions

[dry pike]

you could try doing it as a string

b: TypeAlias = "a[int, str, list]"

[rare gazelle]

thats some ugly shit though

what i use future annotations for

[dry pike]

not another option

[rare gazelle]

😡

[dry pike]

it's not an annotation

[wary lily]

i think how to get help is it

that’s where i went

[mossy sigil]

pycharm

[gaunt badge]

What is that supposed to do?

[rare gazelle]

true

[rare gazelle]

save an annotation that using in a few places

i dont know "a[int, str, list]" is really ugly though

[gaunt badge]

I see

[rare gazelle]

.>

[wary lily]

why pycharm

is vim good too

or vscode

those are the only other ones i know

[rare gazelle]

if only Self and type were generic aliases man

[slow rivet]

just use a forward reference

[mossy sigil]

personal preference

[rare gazelle]

actually type is a generic alias

but i mean type[Self][whatever]

[peak relic]

vim is good. vscode is good too. pycharm is good too. But if you're really new, use Thonny. It helps you visualize how the code works

[rare gazelle]

"a[int, str, list]"?

[slow rivet]

yep

[rare gazelle]

really ugly though

😔

[gaunt badge]

What happens if you define a before?

[rare gazelle]

what u mean

[gaunt badge]

Like if you solve the runtime issue by doing something like

a = defaultdict(int)
class a(Generic[A, B, C]):
    b = a[int, str, list]

does the type checker complain then?

[rare gazelle]

not working

[dry pike]

from typing import Generic, TypeVar
from collections import defaultdict

A = TypeVar("A")
B = TypeVar("B")
C = TypeVar("C")

a = defaultdict[str, int](int) # !!!
class a(Generic[A, B, C]):
    b = a[int, str, list[str]]

Type "defaultdict[str, int]" is not assignable to declared type "type[a[A@a, B@a, C@a]]"

[wary lily]

hi Bruneian

that sounds like my name

but i’m not bruneian

i’m brazilian

hi

thank you for the suggestion

[gaunt badge]

locals()["a"] = defaultdict(int)  # shhh!
class a(...):
    ...

[dry pike]

then pylance thinks that a isn't defined

[wary lily]

i struggle with that too

but at a smaller scale

like idk how for loops work

a lot of the time

it’s like an ant starving next to a homeless man

despite the millions of ants it would take to make one man

the feelings the same

if that makes sense

[dry pike]

hey man can you please not put an extra newline between every line of your msg, it's kinda spammy

[rare gazelle]

if we had Owner and both Owner and Self were generic aliases

[wary lily]

sorry
bad habit

[scenic finch]

What the completely irrelevant tangent

[dry pike]

yeah that's not at all related to what we're talking about.
Tho, keep at it bro.

[rare gazelle]

what

[jovial oxide]

😭 dam

[rare gazelle]

what x2

[peak relic]

bro just wants to be included 💀

[scenic finch]

[peak relic]

I'm already feeling so exhausted and its only Wednesday.

[pallid garden]

what a week huh

[peak relic]

fr

[dry pike]

me every week

[rare gazelle]

the week isn't over yet u know

[peak relic]

you'd probably age faster exponentially that way. Slow down

[rare gazelle]

.topic

[verbal wedge]

**How would you learn a new library if needed to do so?**

Suggest more topics here!

[peak relic]

Read my server tag.

That's how I roll

[rare gazelle]

honestly i think i get it that i can't explain it with words

🤷‍♂️

somehow i just find a way

[peak relic]

like... it just speaks to you...

oh chosen one

[rare gazelle]

xD

u learn about something suddenly u find yourself in some forum or a discord server, some github repo u find intersting

or for example how i've made the pycharm plugin, there was a githubb for a template for making plugins

https://github.com/JetBrains/intellij-platform-plugin-template

i could say search for documentation or stuff like this bbut there isn't a fixed way to learn something i dont know

i think the greatest skill in that is that i dont trust chatgpt for example, i use it, but i dont trust it

on the contrary when my mom gets a sms saying she has won 10k$ or whatever

the ability to recognize if something is good and question stuff, thats what i think trully is important

[abstract ibex]

can any1 review my prog to say if it's reasonable for a benchmark? i.e. if it's doing anything silly that is killing performance by accident: https://paste.based.lol/J0

[simple sorrel]

jupyter is soooo good

i been using notepad++ for years and now i use jupyter

jupyter nombr 1 best

[mossy sigil]

is that on linux?

[simple sorrel]

it works on all

i think

[mossy sigil]

where do i get it

flatpak deb?

tar?

[simple sorrel]

https://jupyter.org/

you also use notepad++?

[mossy sigil]

does it have dark mode

[simple sorrel]

yes

[mossy sigil]

okay good

is it good?

[simple sorrel]

yes

accelerates learning

[mossy sigil]

what does it have that vscode or other ides dont

[simple sorrel]

idfk i never used the other ides , i only used notepad++ and now i use jupyter and from my biased standpoint jupyter is the best

[mossy sigil]

alright

[shrewd pine]

it's not an ide

[bleak ore]

That ain't an ide

[shrewd pine]

jypyter notebooks are great for tasks where what you want is closer to a very fancy repl

[bleak ore]

Integrated Development Environment

Notepad++ is just a text editor, not an environment

[shrewd pine]

e.g. it's great for stuff like data analysis and whatnot

[simple sorrel]

if you can type code and do code stuff its an ide whether you like it or not

[bleak ore]

Its literally not

[simple sorrel]

tell me smart man, why is it not

[shrewd pine]

is a repl an ide?

[simple sorrel]

i do not know what that is but if you can do code stuff then yes

[bleak ore]

It's like calling pen and paper an advanced image editor

[stable narwhal]

is !e an IDE

[bleak ore]

No, that's an interpreter

[simple sorrel]

idgaf what you guys saying if i can type code and run it it's an ide whether you like it or nor

[shrewd pine]

$ python
Python 3.12.12 (main, Oct 18 2025, 05:45:20)
[...]
>>> print('this thing')
this thing

[stable narwhal]

I wasn’t seriously asking

[simple sorrel]

can i save the code?

if not then it is not an ide

[shrewd pine]

(more like, is discord/pydis an ide because we have !e?)

[stable narwhal]

best ide

[simple sorrel]

if you can do a project from start to finish then whatever you used is an ide

[bleak ore]

You're wrong, if you don't even wanna take into account arguments against it your just denying you're wrong. You know you're wrong but too much of an asshole to admit it

[bleak ore]

Text messages in discord are saved, is discord channels an ide?

[simple sorrel]

if you can extract these messages and save them as a .py format and then run it on terminal then yes

if you can get a project done with it it is in fact an ide

[stable narwhal]

That’s a stretch

[timid kite]

Hi guys, is there anything i can improve on my github?

github.com/VxidDev/

[bleak ore]

If I manage to draw in ms paint so the binary file it produces can be read as python code, does that mean it's an ide?

[bleak ore]

Indeed

[opal gull]

are we seriously discussing the definition of "IDE" for the 10000th time

[simple sorrel]

yes

[opal gull]

yall 🙏

[shrewd pine]

pray tell, what does the I stand for?

[simple sorrel]

a very unique one that is

[simple sorrel]

interactive

[shrewd pine]

nope

[simple sorrel]

what

[bleak ore]

What does the DE stand for while we are talking about it

[stable narwhal]

I don’t think any of us think the editor vs IDE thing is productive, but this is outrageous

[shrewd pine]

integrated

[simple sorrel]

development environment

is it?

im not ide'ist so i wouldnt know

[bleak ore]

An environment, a collection of tools for development, syntax highlighting, auto completion, debugger. Have you seen a debugger in notepad?

You lost the argument the second you started typing, give up already

[simple sorrel]

my environment is one which requires me to get my code to be saved and run on terminal

[bleak ore]

So you admit you don't know anything about ide's

[opal gull]

why are you being arrogant

you couldve used this chance to educate them about what an IDE is compared to an editor

and ur whining about some "you lost the argument HAHA"

[simple sorrel]

loser mindset tbh

the lion finishes a 1500 line project with notepad++

[bleak ore]

Because at this point I know he knows he's wrong, he still keeps going just to in some wild way maybe be right if you bend the rules a bit

[simple sorrel]

i never used a debugger because i can just change my code a bit and see what's going on

[bleak ore]

We've gone from helpful to hopeful

[mossy sigil]

are u on linux

[bleak ore]

Hopeful he's maybe right sometimes

[simple sorrel]

no

too lazy to convert

[bleak ore]

Loser mindset tbh

[kind thicket]

That approach is quite inefficient. I would suggest to look at more evidence based approaches

[kind thicket]

let's chill

[simple sorrel]

thats true, the only wrong thing about me is the fact that im too lazy to change from windows to linux

[bleak ore]

I just copy pasted what he said

[kind thicket]

yall can both chill

[bleak ore]

Nah I'm fine

[simple sorrel]

it works and has always worked, the bread and butter are the things one needs

[kind thicket]

It's entirely up to you

[shrewd pine]

the point of ides is that it's an editor with deep integrations with the language and similar development needs

[bleak ore]

I've already mentioned the definition of an ide twice, him ignoring it is up to him, Ive tried to take the chance to educate, he declined

[bleak ore]

Hence the name

[kind thicket]

you can bring a donkey to the river but you can't make it drink

[simple sorrel]

🗿

[bleak ore]

Hence i stopped trying to educate

[shrewd pine]

jupyter notebooks are more of a "literal programming" environment

[mossy sigil]

jupyter notebooks can prevent that you train your typing muscle

[shrewd pine]

it's not meant for creating full-on programs, but a place to do interactive stuff

[pallid garden]

i prefer figurative programming

[bleak ore]

My mind is my editor, i do theoretical programming

[shrewd pine]

i.e. it's closer to a very fancy repl

[pallid garden]

i have a theoretical degree in programming

[kind thicket]

that hasn't stopped data scientists from asking for scheduled notebooks

[shrewd pine]

[pallid garden]

that implies the existence of unscheduled notebooks

[shrewd pine]

(trying to use jupyter notebooks as an ide is also a bad idea as it allows you to run cells out of order and repeatedly)

[kind thicket]

no one ever expect the unscheduled notebooks

[bleak ore]

I would have gotten one myself last month but i accidentally started thinking about a while true loop, I forgot to add a break before i started thinking

[shrewd pine]

i.e. you can have a notebook that "works" but only because it worked in the order you ran/edited the code

notebooks are great at a bunch of stuff, but being an ide is not one of them 🙃

[mossy sigil]

that reminds me - what do users of the community edition of pycharm do now that you have to pay?

[bleak ore]

Wait, did they make the open source program, paid?

How, why, what

[mossy sigil]

yeah, only pro version available now

[bleak ore]

Is the source still available?

[pallid garden]

download vscodium

[slender urchin]

You don't have to pay

[bleak ore]

If only you didn't need the full visual studio code to support live share

[pallid garden]

whats live share

oh

[fervent matrix]

https://www.jetbrains.com/pycharm/download/?section=windows
"Free forever, plus one month of Pro included"

[bleak ore]

Google docs live collaboration type thing

[pallid garden]

i use git btw

[winged shale]

I had a dream where i ran out of variable names

[slender urchin]

They consolidated it into one version that has both free and paid functionality, you can still use it without paying and get the community edition functionality

[bleak ore]

It's better when collaborating on websites or to help debug something

[mossy sigil]

i am not well informed then, sorry

[bleak ore]

It's just convenient for smaller sessions

[pallid garden]

you can checkout a remote

[bleak ore]

Live collaboration has it's upsides

But I only use it when teaching or helping

[pallid garden]

how often do people help each other debug, in the workplace?

[slender urchin]

all the time

[bleak ore]

I ain't got no job

[pallid garden]

i always had this impression that people who have jobs are able to solve any problems given enough time

[bleak ore]

Well thank you for assuming I've got a job

[slender urchin]

but it's better if 2 people take less than 50% of that time

[bleak ore]

I feel smart now

[restive phoenix]

sure,, but sometimes a colleague already spent that time.

[pallid garden]

wdym

[edgy fractal]

how bad electron is for writing a simple gui app ?
i only hear bad things about it

[bleak ore]

If they have solved the problem, why would you spend time solving it again

[restive phoenix]

a problem that needs time solving was already solved by a colleague, an that colleague happens to now the answer already == time saved 🙂

[pallid garden]

why is there a regression

[pallid garden]

imagine opening a new chrome instance every time you want to open a website

not a new tab/window

a completely separate instance

[edgy fractal]

what about qt? is it good for mobile app development

[pallid garden]

it's not exactly common

[slender urchin]

It's an easy way to create an app if you know web frontend dev

[kind thicket]

It's a team sport

[edgy fractal]

i think i should just learn flutter then

[grizzled wasp]

Qt's mostly done through their web engine nowadays too

[kind thicket]

You also have to consider that someone senior has seen more issues and can find it faster than a junior.
And often, you don't want a junior to spend days being stuck. So you want to time bound the issue.
And then you have the tunnel vision and rubber ducking

[grizzled wasp]

For anything where I'm figuring out business rules I'd also much rather bounce ideas off of someone do we don't overlook something before validating them with a client

[pallid garden]

im not talking about junior/senior though

i meant like colleagues of similar experience levels

[kind thicket]

junior/senior on the same team are colleagues

[bleak ore]

Just write pixels directly to the graphics card

[kind thicket]

same ideas with people of similar experience

[pallid garden]

well thats not what i meant to ask

pardon my phrasing earlier

[kind thicket]

I might

[fiery willow]

I lost my original script snd all I have left is an exe of it 😭

[pallid garden]

do you help your colleagues debug over the shoulder?

[kind thicket]

yeah

[pallid garden]

thats... interesting

[shrewd pine]

🍐 programming

[kind thicket]

there is no shame in that

[pallid garden]

nah, back when i was interning i dont usually see my seniors doing that

[kind thicket]

maybe they were too shy or not the same culture

[pallid garden]

i didnt mean that it's shameful

[slender urchin]

Where i'm at rn every offfice has an extra chair so someone from a different office can pull up and sit beside you

[pallid garden]

different companites different culture i suppose

[kind thicket]

working with someone doesn't mean you would never find it on your own

[shrewd pine]

just the one chair for the whole office

[pallid garden]

i should try that

[shrewd pine]

hot-chairing pair programming

[slender urchin]

Or room in the office, not sure how you would call it in english

6 ppl in a room, 7 chairs

[pallid garden]

the most collaboration ive done with other people is over github and slack

[kind thicket]

People will come from different backgrounds, degrees, experiences, their own favorite tools.
So it can be great to exchange ideas and tips and ways of working

like you would notice they use this fancy new CLI or shortcut or theme and would probe about it.
Or discover a feature of the debugger you never cared to check and try

[shrewd pine]

in our area we even have a vacated desk

[pallid garden]

it's a significant reason why i decided to join discord programming servers

[shrewd pine]

(because it's right next to the toilet)

(it's not a popular seat)

[kind thicket]

time to start your twitch or join some voice channel and collaborate

[shrewd pine]

"you should try vim"

"have you heard about jj?"

[kind thicket]

Let me alias emacs=vim

[slender urchin]

jjk?

[shrewd pine]

there is a vs code plugin called that for jj :P

[pallid garden]

yea yea yea yea yea

[shrewd pine]

"chat, does this line make sense?"

[grizzled wasp]

I need to try jj, I was happy with pycharm's git integration, but had to switch to vscode and the git in here is kinda crap that I do half the things in cli anyway

[visual juniper]

"noobmaster69 welcome to the stream"

[shrewd pine]

join the cult 🥰

[pallid sapphire]

You might solve it given enough time for sure but also might not have the privilege of enough time depending on the size of the codebase etc. In a good company there's teamwork.

That's at least my experience.

[abstract ibex]

could any1 check my prog to see if it looks reasonable as a benchmark https://paste.based.lol/J0

just want tom ake sure i didn't introduce anything that will make itway slower than it should be

[rigid ridge]

Hi, I started the process of creating a proposal with the goal of writing a PEP. Do you see any use/point in it?
https://discuss.python.org/t/proposal-for-a-new-way-to-overload-methods-by-arguments-and-whether-it-is-synchronous-or-asynchronous/104902

Example

import asyncio


class Example:
    @coroutinedispatch
    def process(self, x: int) -> str:
        return f"Processing integer: {x}"

    @process.register
    async def _(self, x: int) -> str:
        await asyncio.sleep(0.1)
        return f"Processing integer asynchronously: {x}"

    @process.register
    def _(self, x: str) -> str:
        return f"Processing string: {x}"

    @process.register
    async def _(self, x: str) -> str:
        await asyncio.sleep(0.1)
        return f"Processing string asynchronously: {x}"


example = Example()
print(example.process(42))  # Processing integer: 42
print(example.process("hello"))  # Processing string: hello


async def main():
    print(await example.process(42))  # Processing integer asynchronously: 42
    print(await example.process("hello"))  # Processing string asynchronously: hello

[craggy willow]

ok, but one can store coroutines and await them later, and this will break that:

async def foo():
    ..

some_coros = [foo(), foo(), foo()]

for coro in some_coros:
    await coro

[surreal knoll]

What does _ func name do?

[craggy willow]

it's just a name

doesn't do anything

[rigid ridge]

It's an "empty" name, it's like saying "It doesn't need a name"

[surreal knoll]

Ohh so they all r named process?

[craggy willow]

_ usually used when name won't be used

e.g.

for _ in range(5):
    print("hi")

i'm not using the loop variable, so i indicate that by using "_"

[rigid ridge]

Yes, it is a method overload, but considering the context from which it is being called, if it is called from a synchronous context, it returns the synchronous functions; if it is from an asynchronous context, it returns the asynchronous functions.

[surreal knoll]

But my question is how does it know which method to overload?

[surreal knoll]

Yep

[rigid ridge]

This is only a problem if you need to mix contexts; if you need to save asynchronous functions from a synchronous context to execute them in an asynchronous context, I understand that the logical thing to do is to constantly be in an asynchronous context to avoid jumping between contexts.

[surreal knoll]

But u only call process method, why doesn't it say method doesn't exist, why does it overload that method

[rigid ridge]

By applying the decorator @coroutinedispatch (coroutinedispatch is what I'm proposing), you indicate that argument or context overloading is possible, and you apply it to other methods with @method_name.register

[craggy willow]

i don't understand how it's a mixed context

[rigid ridge]

From a synchronous function you call another asynchronous one; you are in a synchronous context and you are calling a function from an asynchronous context.

[surreal knoll]

In some libs I've seen them use,
Example().some_method(with_async=True)
Think they do something similar.
But maybe that can solve this problem?

[surreal knoll]

Does this exec the foo() methods in lost as async???
Will have to try this

[rigid ridge]

The closest thing currently available is to use the singledispatch function from the functools library and add an argument like that.

[surreal knoll]

Yeah maybe that's why I've only seen that

[jovial oxide]

chat who tryna buy my doordash

[rigid ridge]

Here is the complete code for the proposed class that does this; there is still much room for improvement, but it can help to understand what I am proposing.
https://discuss.python.org/t/proposal-for-a-new-way-to-overload-methods-by-arguments-and-whether-it-is-synchronous-or-asynchronous/104902/3

[craggy willow]

def make_some_tasks():
    return [asyncio.create_task(example.foo(i)) for i in range(4)]

ok, but, like, this happens pretty often

dispatch gonna have a hell of a time

[rigid ridge]

In this case, you would have to make the make_some_tasks method asynchronous so that it returns the asynchronous methods.

This is intended for libraries that have different code for the same method when it's synchronous and asynchronous, and that manage this using:

sync: <name_of_method>

async: a<name_of_method>

With this, in the documentation and from the user's perspective, it would be the same method, and the appropriate one would be executed depending on the context.

[craggy willow]

alternatively, you could just have separate sync and async function names so you don't get a surprise bug

i mean i've seen this before in curio

https://github.com/dabeaz/curio/blob/master/curio/meta.py#L118-L122

[edgy kraken]

curio/meta.py lines 118 to 122

def awaitable(syncfunc):
    '''
    Decorator that allows an asynchronous function to be paired with a
    synchronous function in a single function call.  The selection of
    which function executes depends on the calling context.  For example:```

[craggy willow]

but i don't think it's good design

but i guess i'm not who you gotta convince anyway

[rigid ridge]

All opinions matter. There are very few people who can decide whether this gets included or not, but it's important to discuss as a community whether you think it makes sense, whether it could be useful, or whether it's just garbage.

These changes stem from my experience working with Django, where I realized they would greatly simplify my code and could also significantly simplify Django's codebase. However, I'm not sure if this is just my specific case or if other people might also have this thought.

[slender urchin]

til about singledispatch

[opal gull]

insane airball

[jovial oxide]

Hater

[brisk gazelle]

I am incandescent with hatred, but I could never hate Python. I am, at worst, occasionally mildly annoyed by it.

Like, yeah, let's have a convention that classes should be in Pascal, but then have the builtin classes named in lowercase because "they're used like functions".

[swift sparrow]

pretty sure it was just because the classes were provided before there was an established convention

[brisk gazelle]

Hm. Makes a sense.

I'm also slightly annoyed that lambda is six characters.

Lambdas should be short. The length of the keyword is almost self-defeating in that purpose.

Yes, you could just def it up with something short.

[slender urchin]

looks away as they close the ts file in front of them with 20+ line anonymous functions

[brisk gazelle]

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

[bright mauve]

same, but in java

[silver plover]

My usual gripe is the difficulty of navigating docs. Not the docs themselves, just the navigating the hierarchy of the stdlib, classes, etc to find something. (Not a new rant, just since we're venting spleens)

[brisk gazelle]

I like the pdf files.

The html docs are...eh.

[silver plover]

I don't think I've ever opened the PDFs.

[brisk gazelle]

I'll look at the html docs, because they're what gets presented as the foremost.

But when I was starting out, yeah.

library.pdf is the Python bible.

[spice hill]

I am very spoiled by the consistency of Rust docs, yes

reference documentation really benefits from every kind of item being documented in the same way

[still mason]

i accidentially made the most cursed guess the number game (in my transpiled language so... this is kinda off topic but eh...)

[brisk gazelle]

Cursed how?

[spice hill]

my recent example was from collections.abc: some methods of abstract classes are listed in a table (without parameter counts or names or explanation), some are documented later under each class; and for the number and variance of generic parameters you need to see a completely different page, namely the deprecated items in the typing module

[still mason]

imp std/random.pypp


fn main() -> int
    assert_fix: false => int num=random_randint(0, 10);int guess;while (guess != num){std::cout << "guess: ";std::cin >> guess;std::cin.ignore(std::numeric_limits<std::streamsize>::max(), '\n');if (guess > num){std::cout << "Too high!\n";};if (guess < num){std::cout << "Too low!\n";};if (guess == num){std::cout << "You got it!\n";break;};};
end

so... umm

[cerulean ravine]

can you say more about the difference? Isn't it the same content?

[brisk gazelle]

The html docs are more segmented, for one.

The pdf files, while there are a few of them, aren't as segmented.

I think.

It's been a while and I may be rose tinting it.

[grizzled vale]

anyone who's knowledgeable abt monte carlo simulations😭

[cerulean ravine]

tbh, i've never looked at the PDFs, but they are built from the same pile of .rst files

[bronze dragon]

what would you ask them?

[grizzled solar]

Madam what is a monte carlo simulation? I only know monty python :p

I first thought it was that uh equation veritasium made a video about which when graphed gives a 3D mandelbrot or something

[viral topaz]

Hi everyone! I'm Ankita and am new here

I’m a full stack developer with over 3+ years of experience ( React, Next.js, TypeScript, Tailwind, Shadecn , Node.js, NestJS, PostgreSQL, MongoDB, AWS, Docker, Firebase , Strapi , Python , FastAPI ,MCP , Agentic Workflow and Automation , even used may AI Based tools for productivity etc )building and contributing to various tech projects. I enjoy solving problems, collaborating with teams, and working on meaningful products. I’m currently exploring part-time opportunities where I can contribute alongside my current role.

If anyone is working on something exciting or knows of any opening, I’d be happy to connect and explore! Looking forward to engaging with the community 😊

[grizzled solar]

Welcome!

[viral topaz]

Thank You

[glacial lichen]

guys what after RESTAPI?

i've learned that on flask

so if in a particular company they work on MERN then i have to learn RESTAPI on MERN?

or i'm good to go

[tawny sedge]

Express.js is restful so yes, this is not a python question fwiw

[nova grove]

What's an easy gui library that even a brain dead monkey can understand

[proper holly]

Ig tkinter

[nova grove]

okey ty !!

any alternatives

[pallid garden]

why

[half pewter]

heh turtle is probably the simplest but it's not a serious library, what do you need a gui for?

[nova grove]

curious !

[silver plover]

Monte Carlo is essentially running a simulation or model many times, and recording results. (More formally, it's really about sampling)

[glacial lichen]

streamlit

[pallid garden]

im fairly sure that's a joke question no wait, it's a legit question

[cerulean ravine]

can you tell us more about the project you are building?

[grizzled solar]

So its not a simulation, got it

[silver plover]

I think that's a normal phrasing.... a Monte Carlo simulation really is: I'm running a simulation many times, to understand how the results are distributed

[nova grove]

i mainly just need the a search, and autofill function. Users will look up an item, the app returns the item's cost, prty simple

[glacial lichen]

matplotlib.py for data

[grizzled solar]

fair enuff, thanks @silver plover

[pallid garden]

a monte carlo simulation also implies that it is not deterministic, right?

you are always generating randomness during the simulation

[silver plover]

Well, yah, if there's no distribution whats the point?

[pallid garden]

@grizzled solar

[cerulean ravine]

the name "Monte Carlo" is from the randomness of roulette tables in Monte Carlo (I think)

[silver plover]

I think it's implied that the search space is too large to exhaustively search, too

Iirc, the term came about from Manhattan project... let's see if I'm right

[pallid garden]

oh interesting

TIL

[grizzled solar]

when i checked wikipedia for monte carlo, i only got the wiki for the place and the intro was so short, it was basically "monte carlo is a place... there's a casino there... yeahhhh"

[silver plover]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanisław_Ulam

[cerulean ravine]

we are both right 🙂

[pallid garden]

that's its namesake

the technique is named after that place

[grizzled solar]

yeah

[runic flower]

An early variant of the Monte Carlo method was devised to solve the Buffon's needle problem, in which π can be estimated by dropping needles on a floor made of parallel equidistant strips.
I don't think I've seen that method of finding π mentioned before. Nifty.

[pallid garden]

theres a numberphile video on that iirc

[runic flower]

sounds like something they'd cover.

[silver plover]

In finance, we often use Monte Carlo to consider the effect of randomness on portfolios: the idea being that you can use the statistical characteristics (namely volatility, or stddev of returns) to consider different 'equally likely' outcomes

[pallid garden]

is fuzzing considered monte carlo?

[silver plover]

You'll find a lot of similarities between physics and some economics math.

[pallid garden]

thats what my thermodyn prof said too lol

[silver plover]

I wouldn't think so: the goals are different

[silver plover]

If you're interested, look at the black scholes equation

[covert blade]

I need a tiktok view bot code

[edgy kraken]

Rules

6. Do not post unapproved advertising.

[pallid garden]

wrong one oops

!rules 5

[edgy kraken]

Rules

5. Do not provide or request help on projects that may violate terms of service, or that may be deemed inappropriate, malicious, or illegal.

[silver plover]

Eh, better to just explain 🙂

[silver plover]

We don't help with stuff like that.

[covert blade]

Why

[silver plover]

Why would you think 'Python discord' is the place to ask?

[sand hornet]

This isn't a job posting board. It's a community that helps you learn how to code.

[covert blade]

Ok

[pallid garden]

*spit take*

[charred tusk]

How rude would it be to say you actually need engaging content

[sand hornet]

hawk tuah

[silver plover]

.topic

[verbal wedge]

**Have you published any packages on PyPI? If so, what are they?**

Suggest more topics here!

[pallid garden]

i hope to do so soon

[silver plover]

Yes, I ain't telling. Users how you get bugs reported.

[sand hornet]

I did. And then I was asked by a major company to pull it. 😬

[charred tusk]

Eh, I’m not a fan of that one
They are in the right place to talk about code

[edgy kraken]

Class instance

When calling a method from a class instance (ie. instance.method()), the instance itself will automatically be passed as the first argument implicitly. By convention, we call this self, but it could technically be called any valid variable name.

class Foo:
    def bar(self):
        print('bar')

    def spam(self, eggs):
        print(eggs)

foo = Foo()

If we call foo.bar(), it is equivalent to doing Foo.bar(foo). Our instance foo is passed for us to the bar function, so while we initially gave zero arguments, it is actually called with one.

Similarly if we call foo.spam('ham'), it is equivalent to
doing Foo.spam(foo, 'ham').

Why is this useful?

Methods do not inherently have access to attributes defined in the class. In order for any one method to be able to access other methods or variables defined in the class, it must have access to the instance.

Consider if outside the class, we tried to do this: spam(foo, 'ham'). This would give an error, because we don't have access to the spam method directly, we have to call it by doing foo.spam('ham'). This is also the case inside of the class. If we wanted to call the bar method inside the spam method, we'd have to do self.bar(), just doing bar() would give an error.

[pallid garden]

oof

[sand hornet]

[charred tusk]

Oh lawd

How much time you got?

[raw bramble]

It was that good huh?

[pallid garden]

now im really curious

[sand hornet]

Uhhhh "good" is questionable. Easy to read, definitely. And that's how I dug my hole. And now I'm working with them again, so ehhh didn't end poorly

[raw bramble]

I'm wondering why a company would tell you to take a pypi package down

[sand hornet]

I can DM you if you want

[raw bramble]

What did you do 😭

[sand hornet]

Played the game a little too hard 😄

[charred tusk]

Lol
I had a GitHub webhook tell me someone had forked my repo once
Their bio said “security researcher”
I braced for a security report but nothing ever came

[charred tusk]

https://pypi.org/user/bradleyreynolds/

[finite yacht]

Of course!

[charred tusk]

Hopefully you have that time

[pallid garden]

that time?

[finite yacht]

It doesn't even have to work just make a PR

[sand hornet]

Bad practices, make an issue if you know you can't write the code. Look to see how someone else would write it, and seek to understand how it works honestly

[silver plover]

There's lots of ways to do financial math in Python. What do you actually need?

[charred tusk]

#python-discussion message

Is joke

[pallid garden]

ha

[charred tusk]

Thank

I tried

[pallid garden]

that's a lot of packages

[fresh tide]

https://github.com/bmc/munkres

Python's Munkres implementation got abandoned...
Time to take ownership with a kickass fork.

[grizzled vale]

their help💀

[pallid garden]

what do you need

[silver plover]

Be the PR you want to see

[bronze dragon]

yes, but being upfront with your specific question helps

[fresh tide]

Actually I'm rewriting the implementation from scratch, aiming to see good benchmarks at the end

[silver plover]

What is munkres?

[fresh tide]

"Hungarian Algorithm"

[silver plover]

What is Hungarian algorithm?

[pallid garden]

munkres

[fresh tide]

It's an algorithm that solves the linear assignment problem with minimal cost.

[bright mauve]

not with minimal cost

but fairly efficiently

[silver plover]

(What's the linear assignment problem?)

[fresh tide]

The problem is called like that

[bright mauve]

with "minimal cost" did you mean of the cost function, or computational cost?

because the jonker-volgenant algorithm will give you the same solution as the hungarian algorithm at a lower computational cost

[fresh tide]

the total cost of assignments minimized by the optimal solution

[bright mauve]

ok then yeah

[silver plover]

Is this some TSP like problem?

[bright mauve]

no, i don't think there's a guaranteed optimal solution for TSP in the general case

[pallid garden]

this is all english...

[steel whale]

hello! i just upgraded my bike, new rear and front suspensions (both are pneumatic, not coil), 4-gear front, new shifters, wheels, seats, etc etc

[grizzled vale]

Wait omggg, you were the one i talked to abt this before too😭

[pallid garden]

ionizing radiation in tissue?

or something else

[grizzled vale]

I mean...😶 I kinda want to explain it clearly but it seems i forgot how to explain it clearly LMAO

[grizzled vale]

In bacteria

[fresh tide]

Nice, now I need to learn a new algorithm...
I heard the Hungarian is parallelizable tho...

[bright mauve]

it's more like "i have N people that can do any of N tasks, each at a cost c(i,j) (for the ith person, jth job). who do i assign to each job?"

[sand hornet]

I too love to pretend I'm not using a microwave to cause skin radiation

[bright mauve]

ah, i haven't checked anything regarding parallelization of the algorithms so i can't comment there

[silver plover]

Casually I'd assume there's a linalg answer to this

[pallid garden]

is there any problem you are facing?

[bright mauve]

there is one such flavor 😌

[pallid garden]

or rather, what do you need help with?

[fresh tide]

Apparently scipy.optimize.linear_sum_assignment uses a modified Jonker-Volgenant algorithm

[pallid garden]

do you have some formulae that you are planning on using?

[grizzled vale]

Yes

[pallid garden]

are you familiar with the random library?

you might want to post screenshots of the formulae in one of the #ot channels

[grizzled vale]

I need the simulation itself, so like i was thinking if github might have one but idunno how to use it so i still haven't found one

[pallid garden]

monte carlo isnt a program

it's not something you put a formulae in

[grizzled vale]

Wait a minute

What's that channel?

[pallid garden]

any one of the Off-topic / General channels

[half pewter]

or open a help thread

https://discord.com/channels/267624335836053506/1035199133436354600https://discord.com/channels/267624335836053506/291284109232308226

[pallid garden]

transport_coefficient = 0.9999 # this is a constant related to the tissue i was simulating
rng = 1-torch.rand(N) # this is the ξ in my formula
step_lengths = -torch.log(1-rng)/transport_coefficient # this is the formula i was given

ignore the torch part, that's not exactly related

and the formula i was given (written out) was

     -(1-ξ)
l = --------
        t

essentially i generated a random number ξ which i then feed into the formula, and this gets done multiple times, e.g. by using a for loop

@grizzled vale this is one of the variables (in this case, the step length) that is used to calculate the movement of a photon

[half pewter]

What is the question here? I've gathered that simulating bacteria was the topic right?

[pallid garden]

@grizzled vale so your formula looks like this yea S(D) = e^( -aD -bD^2)

[pallid garden]

simulating ionizing radiation on bacteria

actually we should open a help thread

this is filling up #python-discussion

[wise imp]

why pytorch?

[pallid garden]

it was what i knew then

this is old code

ignore the pytorch part

today i would use cupy

[wise imp]

I mean, I suppose it doesn't matter, it's a lot like numpy anyway, except you have the option to use CUDA if you have hardware support

[half pewter]

I would have thought there's be an easier formula if you're just collecting reproduction data but I guess for a simulation pytorch makes sense

[pallid garden]

i was using google colab, which does have cuda t4s

[wise imp]

I feel like cupy fell off the market once pytorch and jax arrived

[half pewter]

what's jax?

and cupy...

[grizzled vale]

Yesss

[pallid garden]

i would call them gpgpu libraries?

[sand hornet]

Basically GPU-enabled Numpy operations.. https://github.com/jax-ml/jax

[wise imp]

with autograd

[pallid garden]

open a help thread it looks like this might be quite a long conversation

[grizzled vale]

Okayyyy, got it

[sand hornet]

Cupy is specific to CUDA by my rough estimate based on naming convention.. https://github.com/cupy/cupy

[wise imp]

it's basically literally numpy on the gpu

[sand hornet]

"or AMD ROCm platforms", I stand corrected

[half pewter]

meh, no point in even bothering with rocm anymore

[sand hornet]

does pytorch not integrate this?

[half pewter]

might as well just use google colab

[wise imp]

they even suggest import cupy as np I think

[pallid garden]

same deal

[sand hornet]

That's what I figured

[grizzled vale]

In here right? #1035199133436354600 😅

[pallid garden]

yea

[wise imp]

yeah, Pytorch also has broad API parity with numpy

[pallid garden]

gpgpu speeds things up a lot

im getting like 1.59s vs 2 mins

[wise imp]

yeah, it's pretty nice

I mean, if you want, you can rawdog it by writing compute shaders via opengl or similar

[pallid garden]

yea no

[wise imp]

might be more lightweight if you wanted to distribute your program and had a specific need for some operation only

[half pewter]

seems like one of those things that sounds easy until you try to do it

[wise imp]

or like if you just needed something very custom

like, cupy also lets you write your own kernel ops

but again, I don't know why someone would want to use cupy when you've got pytorch and jax

I suppose if you have existing numpy code it might be a lot easier to just import cupy as np

[pallid garden]

i was told download size?

[wise imp]

hmm, I guess jax is a "research project", so, yeah

and I imagine pytorch tensors don't have all the API capabilities of numpy

[pallid garden]

this is the thread https://discord.com/channels/267624335836053506/1440681854008164393 i feel like it doesnt need monte carlo, maybe someone can confirm or correct me

[wise imp]

(not to mention that some of the behaviour is slightly different)

[wise imp]

I mean, monte carlo is quite thematic for something radiation-related, lol

[pallid garden]

check the equation

[wise imp]

the post is not self-contained 😭

(and doesn't link to where it began in this channel either)

[pallid garden]

i posted the equation late, sorry

#1440681854008164393 message

[feral knoll]

Who is she she is answering non stop and helping everyone society needs these type of peoples💔💔

[pallid garden]

it's cause im unemployed

[feral knoll]

Dyaaam

That's rare to come by

[wise imp]

in this economy?

[feral knoll]

Who

[sand hornet]

Felt

But it's almost 5am here and I'm studying for an interview for a role with 50% travel

[bleak ore]

Well i ain't got no job either

[feral knoll]

Bro believe me guyz i m the same here

Matter if fact I'm not even 18+

[dry garden]

Seeing way more experienced programmers unemployed gives me a bad feeling 4 the future

[abstract ibex]

any1 can able to have a quick look at my prog and see if it is ok as a benchmark? is it doing anything unusual that could make it slow? https://paste.based.lol/J0

[half pewter]

I think we're about due for a LLM market correction, starting to see headlines of hedge fund managers betting against it. Hopefully CEOs recognize that replacing employees with haluci-bots was a mistake sooner than later.

[abstract ibex]

or: is there some small change i could make that would make it dramatically faster?

[opal gull]

is this a qsort benchmark?

[sand hornet]

They're deranged. Once the hedge funds realize we're heading towards a financial crisis, it's already too late.

[abstract ibex]

no

ffi benchmark. qsort is good cuz it will invoke the callback a lot. and the callback calls back into C (labs)

so a lot of calls both ways

but ts slow asl so i wonder if i did something wrong

[opal gull]

it could just be that

crossing the python<->c boundary is expensive

[opal gull]

and youre doing this a lot so it makes sense

[mossy sigil]

i forgor to study py today

wait its been 14 days

am i cooked?

[abstract ibex]

i benching it vs my vm usually cpython crush me but on this one im 5-6x faster.. . doesn't seem right

[opal gull]

Doesn't that suggest cpython is the one doing smth wrong

[deep temple]

yes

[abstract ibex]

could be but that seems less likely

[charred tusk]

Burnt

[toxic echo]

Wohoooo i successfully cracked pwc interview

Lucky day today 😃

[silver plover]

What was hardest question?

[proud escarp]

pwc?

[toxic echo]

The aptitude one, i was asked to not use pen and paper and solve within 1 minute

I could solve half only

[silver plover]

What was the Q?

[toxic echo]

It was like, i have 8 balls same size, 7 weigh same, 1 ball is slight heavier than the rest. I have a balance scale to measure weight but i can only use it 2 times. I had to find which ball was the heavier one

[silver plover]

Ah... similar to the water jug problem.

[toxic echo]

Yeah water jug was asked in another company interview i sat for

[silver plover]

it's really a question of: 'have you ever seen this type of problem before'

with 8, you measure 3 v 3, leaving two aside. (the rest is left as a problem for the reader)

[strong plume]

How do you solve that problem?

[visual juniper]

i think , group 3 v3

[pastel sluice]

it's essentially a binary partitioning problem, isn't it?

[harsh anchor]

[bright mauve]

not quite, because that would require 3 comparisons

but you can split into 6 and 2, and then 2 and 1

[silver plover]

Yah, log2(8) wouldn't work

[strong plume]

Yeah, I thought a bit fries brain

[silver plover]

Nah, it's easy for us to think of it without the pressure of time.

[visual juniper]

and the interviewer

[strong plume]

The thing is, I can build and develop end to end stuff but when it comes to logical stuff like this, I am cooked

[toxic echo]

Yeah the interviewer was just asking me again and again to just explain my thought process behind solving

He wanted to see how i approach the problem

[visual juniper]

Do a course on aptitude questions , you just have to get familier with different flavours of the problems

you honestly dont even need a course , just solve problems on online sites and its good enough

[toxic echo]

True man i could hardly think about anything during interview i had a lot of performance anxiety

[strong plume]

Thanks

[pallid garden]

jfc logical test for an interview...

[visual juniper]

its not unheard of

[silver plover]

Yah, that's the bad part about interviews: staying calm

[pallid garden]

well it should be

[toxic echo]

Yeah man u remember we were talking some days ago about this? I told u i appeared for an interview but it was very hard

[silver plover]

That sounds like a good interviewer: I don't ask questions to find out what they know, but what they think

[toxic echo]

Yeah this staying calm skill is immensely powerful

[visual juniper]

meh
its fine to slide in a trick question here and there apart from the usual interview questions to judge how the candidate thinks
just dont treat that trick question like it has any real weight on the interview

[bright mauve]

depends largely on the type of work you'll do. maybe your tasks will be very math/logics heavy

[toxic echo]

Yep i still got shortlisted even after I couldn't really arrive at the solution because he was asking me how i thought about

Now i feel like interview is not about acing every question but about how to behave and react

[bright mauve]

this is often the case. interviewers sometimes give out difficult tasks just to see how you deal with pressure, if you can approach problems systematically, if you ask questions, etc

[toxic echo]

True, this is a great experience I've got

[bright mauve]

not all interviewers are like that btw, some will be very douchey about this

you can also take that as a hint regarding whether you really wanna work there or not

[toxic echo]

I was lucky i got a good interviewer

[toxic echo]

Yep i felt the interviewer was very friendly and allowed me to relax a lot during the interview because of how he behaved with me

[visual juniper]

honestly do you even have that many options in today's job market 😂 ?

[bright mauve]

fair enough

at least you'll be able to mentally and emotionally prepare yourself for what you're getting yourself into

[toxic echo]

Does anyone have any experience of working at pwc here?

[visual juniper]

and because of that there are a lot of companies treating employees like shit and dont care if they quit because they can just grab another one from hundreds of others

[toxic echo]

Yeah this is somewhat correct

One of my friends got selected in a company for some data science role, he got the offer letter and stuff and date of joining

When he went to the office on his first day, he found out that he was shifted to sales role

[visual juniper]

💀

[toxic echo]

Only on his first day he realised he was shifted to some sales position

Man companies these days are strange

[floral verge]

Good Morning all. Does anyone have any suggestions for modern alternative to using settings.ini for persisting configuration values in code? I presume JSON (or some markup) is a more preferred format nowdays, but are there any good libraries for configuration management along these lines?

[steady rain]

toml seems pretty popular

[floral verge]

Good start.. have not heard of it before... will look it up. Thx Stele

[jagged belfry]

toml is the modern ini replacement

[final nexus]

GM. I cannot figure why this is giving me a syntax error (ignore the #'s)

patient_name = "John Smith"
age = 20
is_new = True
#print({patient})
#input is a built in function.
patient_name = input("What is your name? ")
print("Goodday " + patient_name) # Here we've combined two (2) strings)
#what is a string? "+" is a combination/concatination
#an expression is a piece of code that produces a value

[steady rain]

show the whole syntax error

[west spruce]

Hi guys, in your opinion, what are the best libraries for reading PDF files that contain tables?

[final nexus]

File "<stdin>", line 1
SyntaxError: invalid syntax