development

[lament rock]

refresh your client since it might be a client bug

[sterile lantern]

then the ephemeral msg goes away

also tried it on mobile, doesnt work its data, not body

[earnest phoenix]

and how would I use ts-node? Can I use it without the runtime extension?

[sharp geyser]

huh

you just use it like normal?

You don't put the file extension because that will also compile down to js and it will try and import the ts file rather than the js one

[frosty gale]

typescript doesnt do anything during runtime?

tbf typescript could be much better if it also enhanced regular javascript

theyve made it clear ts is only for type checking and safety but if they also optimized the js that would be cool

for example enums in ts simply compile down to an object, thats terrible in my opinion, it should just replace all references of said enum with the actual value like it is in basically every language

otherwise youre costing an unnecessary object lookup each time

[acoustic bough]

I like typescript but I’ve been moving more and more to Go-lang

it’s weird writing typescript which just gets compiled to javascript and then JIT compiled

[frosty gale]

yeah i get that feeling

it also doesnt help that javascripts whole purpose is to be a completely dynamic language with no strict structures or types in place

by using typescript youre in a way taking that away and slowing down development with basically no performance benefit

the only benefit is reduced runtime bugs and more clearer intellisense and syntax

i do use it occasionally and i like it but for any sort of fast development or sudden ideas id stick to javascript

[harsh aspen]

JS FTW!!!

[quartz kindle]

js with ts annotations via jsdoc

best of both worlds

thats what i've been using for the past couple years and i absolutely love it

you get full type safety and intellisense and still write pure js

[frosty gale]

you mean just pure jsdoc or something else

[golden coral]

Hello, im using the topgg webhook to get when someone votes for my bot

But for some reason I get multiple requests when I vote once for my bot

Any ideas on that?

[slim heart]

this usually happens when a non-2xx responses code is sent back to the webhook

it’ll retry

are you using a library or just doing it yourself

https://docs.top.gg/docs/Resources/webhooks#retrial this is the documented behavior but seems to not be much correct anymore

[quartz kindle]

its not pure jsdoc

its like ts-powered jsdoc (aka this: https://www.typescriptlang.org/docs/handbook/jsdoc-supported-types.html)

vsc does that natively if you have typescript installed

pure jsdoc has its own type annotation system, which is slightly different from ts

[golden coral]

Oh ok

So I just return 200

With empty body?

[slim heart]

whatever you’d like

[golden coral]

k

[frosty gale]

ah i see

dont like it personally

id want something typescript has or any other typed language

makes it less obvious that im annotating every line of code

[quartz kindle]

vsc actually does an ok job inferring types

i dont need to annotate every single line

mostly just functions/methods and a few things here and there for type enforcing/converting

[eternal osprey]

hey guys

how do i create my own programming language

i got some spare time, a very good understanding of assembly and i assume that i will need assembly to handle all the actions, and i basically bind the raw assembly actions to the higher level language i will create.

i might be wrong

[lyric mountain]

waffle is the only weirdo I know here that tried to make one

[sharp geyser]

you can use assembly if you really wanted to

or you can use an already made language to make one

[frosty gale]

sure you want to make a native compiled language?

id stick with interpreted

although LLVM toolchain helps a lot with this stuff

but then id argue youre not getting the full lang dev experience if youre using LLVM which does 90% of the heavy lifting for you

[eternal osprey]

Nah I really want to go all out

Start from scratch

I already got a start by creating a tokenizer and language interpreter. I am using Java for now

Assembly had not that much support from what I found

[frosty gale]

you mean you wanna compile the language down to assembly and then assemble it?

if you play your cards right you can get something working

you just need to keep track of your variables so you can emit assembly that allocates space on the stack at the beginning, keeps track of the location of them on the stack for code that uses those variables, etc

[wheat mesa]

Hiya

[frosty gale]

so you refer to the variables with the correct offsets since pushing new variables and doing stuff changes that offset constantly

[sharp geyser]

Just use llvm fuck it

Why not use up 60gb of space on your drive

[wheat mesa]

Creating your own compilation toolchain to assembly is hell. Don’t do it unless you want to go down that rabbit hole. LLVM and Cranelift exist for a reason, as they’re platform independent for the most part

If you want to do something low level like that, make a stack based or register based VM

That way you can compile down to your own bytecode format and it’s still platform independent

[lyric mountain]

unless you want to go down that rabbit hole
inb4, chitty goes down the rabbit hole

[sharp geyser]

He will

He’ll learn a lot on not to do it

[frosty gale]

rarely anything innovative happens from avoiding difficult things

i would strongly recommend giving a compiler&lang from scratch a shot but its your choice really

depends on what you envision your end goal as and what you wanna focus on

although I'd recommend getting a language foundation in place in terms of syntax and tracking things before you even touch compilation or running it

[elder dock]

how to add photo in description

[lament rock]

I'll assume you mean in an embed on Discord. It isn't in the description field, it's in the image field

[surreal sage]

actively denying discord's tos changes

[frosty gale]

on a side note terms of services nowadays are awful

companies put whatever they want in it because they know only 1 out of 100 odd people will read it

and things like forced arbitration that prevents them from being sued directly is completely legal and enforceable, rossman should focus on the fact its even legally enforceable rather than companies taking advantage of it

because why wouldnt you if its a ticket out of being sued easily

absolutely ridiculous that this clause doesn't go both ways so the company can sue you but you cant

[lament rock]

Some malicious actors abuse the ability to sue a company even if the case is frivolous inducing totally avoidable court fees and wasted time. Meanwhile yeah some companies abuse their own terms instead of using it for what was likely intended for good will

[frosty gale]

you would still get arbitration fees though? arbitrator has to be paid somehow

probably less than court fees but still

i think most companies pay for the arbitrator themselves in full which puts bias in question

but then again a whole point of an arbitrator is to be an unbiased judge so i would doubt theyre this corrupt

arbitration only limits the worst outcome really

[harsh aspen]

I agree

[surreal sage]

you can just bypass it

even on mobile

(love gestures)

[frosty gale]

surprised you didnt get chatgpt to write a follow up reply

[frosty gale]

although whats the point

theyll force you eventually to agree or sign out

actually another stupid thing

i dont think you can cancel your nitro subscription without agreeing to the terms

youd have to email them to cancel it for you without agreeing to their terms

by the time they reply youll prob be charged for another month

[lament rock]

Been working on a game. I have a few days of dev time in it. Just a few.

[radiant kraken]

nice, what is the game about?

[lament rock]

Well. I won't exactly specify what type of game it is as someone hasn't really done anything similar but I can give some story expo

Why it matters is I don't want people stealing my idea

[radiant kraken]

sure

[lament rock]

The game will have you traverse through either one of two main settings; A futuristic-ish city and the other being in a clearly lost to time outskirts beyond city walls. Beyond the city walls, an oppressed group is outcasted, fending for their lives in the wilderness against hostile creatures. Meanwhile, the mostly rich populous live safe and lavish lives within the walls. A mother has a child with one who was outcasted and the secret police learn of this and forcibly seize the child and cast them to the wilderness to essentially die. What becomes of the mother is unknown. The main character is the child and they survive by integrating with a group beyond the walls. They were old enough to know of the whole thing and plan to reunite with their mother somehow but perhaps can achieve some payback in the meantime

The goal is to also meet other people and be able to play as them with each having their own quirks and abilities.

[harsh aspen]

looks like a ChatGPTed generated text

[lament rock]

Good for you, kid

A bit of paraphrasing was done to be ambiguous enough

[surreal sage]

https://astrid.email/u/Discord_g9nsIGNkW8.mp4

totally

hippity hoppity modal get the fuck off my property

[lyric mountain]

I vaguely remember watching some anime with that plot

dont remember which one was it tho

[craggy pine]

https://www.mathworks.com/help/sdl/ref/universaljoint.html idk if this is what you're looking for.

[queen needle]

I have this chart, and instead of trying to constantly decipher through it, I want to make an app to show each question and give yes or no and correctly follow the path depending on my answer. The only part I'm a bit confused about per se is the best way to handle the logic of making sure you're on the right question and making the right question is shown depending on your answer from the previous. My first thought was either some giant object thing or a bunch of if statements but I felt that wasn't the best efficiency wise and also really easy and I feel like there are a few more challenging and more efficient ways to handle this. One that came to mind was a sort of "permission bit field" system, where you need the permission to view each question, to ensure you're given each after each correctly. I was wondering how would you handle something like this? Most efficient way? Stuff like that.

[quartz kindle]

why not just a rope of objects

[queen needle]

As in like js { question: "", yes: {...}, no: {...} }

[quartz kindle]

pretty much yes

but you dont need to build the entire object at once

you can build the object step by step, that way you can reuse things if needed, as references

[queen needle]

so my state would be the current question, which holds the yes and no states, and then depending on my answer update state including those values accordingly so I only have store the question and answers?

[quartz kindle]

yup

it also supports circular questions, if you ever wanna add that xd

[queen needle]

I had a similar idea to that but my issue with it was that I then have to store the yes and no response, I was trying to just have a definition of all questions and say to any given one if they answered true or false and then depending I want to display the next question

[quartz kindle]

well, your idea of a bitfield is not bad

since all questions have 2 possible results, you can indeed store every single answer as 1 or 0

and from there have all the results in a single place

the only con is that is less flexible, you cant easily change/reorder stuff without redefining the bitfield structure

[queen needle]

ill see how the bitfield ideas faires and ask any questions, thank you!

[limpid rain]

Hi

[deft wolf]

Yo

[eternal osprey]

i had to create a game once for school.... i ended up paying a fiverr dev

unity is so fucked

i wish you luck

[sterile lantern]

has anyone had an issue where autocomplete value is returning as the name instead of the actual value? some of my users are experiencing it, and i cant seem to reproduce it either

(it was reported a few times and apparently was fixed but it is still happening so idk; https://github.com/discord/discord-api-docs/issues/4536)

[lament rock]

Kinda. I'm getting around its jank quite well in ways that make sense so it’s not too bad. Just gotta have that understanding

[fickle flare]

wtf

[real rose]

wtf

[fickle flare]

Why did you refuse?

[real rose]

it gives the reason there

reach out to the BR if you have questions

[fickle flare]

I, the bot + help programmer, had an idea

[fickle flare]

@real rose

You Resours github

is my bot

[sharp geyser]

People have to use npm packages for giveaway features now

[warm surge]

yup

[solemn latch]

The future, AI will just tell you to use a package.

[sharp geyser]

bro its dumb tho

😭

[frosty gale]

not a bad idea tho the point of a package is to do some large thing instead of the person writing it

only problem is these packages tend to be shit

but issue in this is it likely hooks to the discord js client and has it's own command and event handlers with little customization which makes it a bad clone

[deft wolf]

The problem with such packages, in my opinion, is that they either do not contain a database at all and operate on cache memory or they use JSON files as a database like this discord-giveaways package

Many people will not want to implement their database into this package

[frosty gale]

yep that is sloppy for lack of better word

but its moreso aimed at people that are very new and dont know what theyre doing so not surprised

[lament rock]

I always write low level wrappers to avoid idiots like that

[frosty gale]

i installed the same kinds of packages when i started out so can i blame them

(they barely worked most of the time)

[quartz kindle]

those libs are also written by people who dont know what they are doing

:^)

[frosty gale]

i am aware

i looked through the code of one and it was abysmal

at least 10 vulnerable entry points for prototype pollution

[surreal sage]

is 110 mb/s good for a hdd? 😭

[lyric mountain]

you dont put "good" and "hdd" in the same sentence

[radiant kraken]

hdd is not good

[civic scroll]

good if you don't move anything beyond 110mb

else you will have to wait for quite a while

[surreal sage]

7gb movie yk

[civic scroll]

yeah........... it will take around 70 seconds

[queen needle]

export enum QuestionPermission {
    InitialQuestion = 1 << 0,
    PluralQuestion = 1 << 1,
    NegativeQuestion = 1 << 2,
}

enum Question {
    Initial = "Are referring to a specific thing or saying you like/dislike something in general?",
    Plural = "Is it plural?",
    Negative = "Is it negative?",
    End = "End of questioning",
}

export class Word {
    private permissions: number;
    private endPermission: number;
    private questionMap: Map<QuestionPermission, string>;

    constructor() {
        this.permissions = 0;
        this.endPermission = 1 << Object.keys(QuestionPermission).length;
        this.questionMap = new Map([
            [QuestionPermission.InitialQuestion, Question.Initial],
            [QuestionPermission.PluralQuestion, Question.Plural],
            [QuestionPermission.NegativeQuestion, Question.Negative],
            [this.endPermission, Question.End],
        ]);
    }

    get bits(){
        return this.permissions
    }

    answer(question: QuestionPermission) {
        this.permissions |= question;
    }

    access(question: QuestionPermission): boolean {
        return (this.permissions & (question - 1)) === (question - 1);
    }

    get(): string {
        for (let [permission, question] of this.questionMap as any) {
            if (this.access(permission)) {
                return question;
            }
        }
        return "Invalid question";
    }
}
``` i'm trying to get a basic implementation, but for some reason the question doesn't update ```tsx
export default function Home() {
  const word = new Word();
  const [question, setQuestion] = useState(word.get())
  useEffect(() => {
    setQuestion(word.get())
    console.log("changed")
  }, [word.bits])
  return (
    <div className="flex flex-col gap-3">
      <button onClick={() => {
        word.answer(QuestionPermission.InitialQuestion)
      }}>Click</button>
      {question}
    </div>
  );
}``` I printed the values from answering and the permissions

and it is valid

[lyric mountain]

can you even listen to object properties?

like, with useEffect, idk if it'll receive the update notification if not the variable but a property was updated

also you can for (const instead of let if you never change those values

[queen needle]

"use client"
import { QuestionPermission, Word } from "./utils/bitfield";
import { useEffect, useState } from "react";

export default function Home() {
  const word = new Word();
  const [question, setQuestion] = useState({
    number: 0
  })
  useEffect(() => {
    // setQuestion(word.get())
    console.log("changed")
  }, [question.number])
  return (
    <div className="flex flex-col gap-3">
      <button onClick={() => {
        // word.answer(QuestionPermission.InitialQuestion)
        setQuestion({number: question.number + 1})
      }}>Click</button>
      {question.number}
    </div>
  );
}

this seems to work

Like it logs changed everytime

[lyric mountain]

did you try putting the console.log before the setQuestion?

maybe it's looping

or try using the raw variable instead of a getter

like, expose permissions

[queen needle]

What do you mean?

[lyric mountain]

useEffect(() => {
    console.log("changed")
    setQuestion(word.get())
}, [word.permissions])

[queen needle]

oh i meant this one, i'm sorry

[lyric mountain]

yes

I answered to that one

atm you're using ```js
get bits(){
return this.permissions
}

cut the middleman and try to use it directly

[queen needle]

ohhh so change permissions to public and try it, that yields the same result

[lyric mountain]

did you try it?

also put the console.log before the setter, so we can know whether it's looping infinitely

[queen needle]

Yes, i did both of those, the changed isn't logged after i've clicked the button

I tried storing the permissions in a state on the page but still not getting it to work

[lyric mountain]

perhaps the issue is with ```js
// word.answer(QuestionPermission.InitialQuestion)
setQuestion({number: question.number + 1})

[queen needle]

I think my bitfield logic is wrong

export class Word {
    private endPermission: number;
    private questionMap: Map<QuestionPermission, string>;

    constructor() {
        this.endPermission = 1 << Object.keys(QuestionPermission).length;
        this.questionMap = new Map([
            [QuestionPermission.InitialQuestion, Question.Initial],
            [QuestionPermission.PluralQuestion, Question.Plural],
            [QuestionPermission.NegativeQuestion, Question.Negative],
            [this.endPermission, Question.End],
        ]);
    }

    get(state_permissions: number): string {
        for (const [permission, question] of this.questionMap as any) {
            console.log(state_permissions, permission)
            if ((state_permissions & permission) === state_permissions) {
                return question;
            }
        }
        return "Invalid question";
    }
}

when i click it logs 1 1 so their the correct bits, but it still returns the wrong question

[lyric mountain]

oh wait, yes it's wrong

(bitfield & flag) == flag, ur comparing with bitfield

so like, instead of (0b110 & 0b10) == 0b10 // masked out the rest ur doing (0b110 & 0b10) == 0b110

which will never be true

I mean, it will, but not when you want it to be

in that example it'll say true for the 6th question, while ur checking for the 2nd

[queen needle]

so it should be state_permissions(the permisisons presently had) & permission(the permission i'm checking if it has)) == permission

[lyric mountain]

yes

always compare with the mask itself

u could also just !!(state_permissions & permission) since ur in js/ts

[queen needle]

Now it always returns invalid question

[lyric mountain]

as 1 is truey

[queen needle]

oh wait

i'm still doing something wrong it seems, ```ts
export enum QuestionPermission {
InitialQuestion = 0,
PluralQuestion = 1 << 1,
NegativeQuestion = 1 << 2,
}

enum Question {
Initial = "Are referring to a specific thing or saying you like/dislike something in general?",
Plural = "Is it plural?",
Negative = "Is it negative?",
End = "End of questioning",
}

export class Word {
private endPermission: number;
private questionMap: Map<QuestionPermission, string>;

constructor() {
    this.endPermission = 1 << Object.keys(QuestionPermission).length;
    this.questionMap = new Map([
        [QuestionPermission.InitialQuestion, Question.Initial],
        [QuestionPermission.PluralQuestion, Question.Plural],
        [QuestionPermission.NegativeQuestion, Question.Negative],
        [this.endPermission, Question.End],
    ]);
}

get(state_permissions: number): string {
    for (const [permission, question] of this.questionMap as any) {
        if ((state_permissions & permission) === permission) {
            return question;
        }
    }
    return "Invalid question";
}

}
i made the inital 0 so it shows first,ts
"use client"
import { QuestionPermission, Word } from "./utils/bitfield";
import { useEffect, useState } from "react";

export default function Home() {
const word = new Word();
const [permissions, setPermissions] = useState(0);
const [question, setQuestion] = useState(word.get(permissions))
useEffect(() => {
setQuestion(word.get(permissions))
}, [permissions])

return (
<div className="flex flex-col gap-3">
<button onClick={() => setPermissions(QuestionPermission.PluralQuestion)}>
Click
</button>
<p>{question}</p>
</div>
);
}

[lyric mountain]

initialquestion should be 1 << 0

not 0

which is 1

1 << 1 is 2

[queen needle]

thank you

"use client"
import { QuestionPermission, Word } from "./utils/bitfield";
import { useEffect, useState } from "react";

export default function Home() {
  const word = new Word();
  const [permissions, setPermissions] = useState(QuestionPermission.InitialQuestion);
  const [question, setQuestion] = useState(word.get(permissions))
  useEffect(() => {
    setQuestion(word.get(permissions))
  }, [permissions])

  return (
    <div className="flex flex-col gap-3">
      <button onClick={() => setPermissions(QuestionPermission.PluralQuestion)}>
        Click
      </button>
      <p>{question}</p>
    </div>
  );
}
``` works nicely

How could I add bits, instead of setting them?

since i have a few questions that appear more than once, and I don't want to make each one a different bit, like "Is it masculine or feminine" appears 3 times, and i want to try to make it so I can reuse it

[lyric mountain]

bitfield |= 1 << index

or the long version, bitfield = bitfield | (1 << index)

to understand what's happening:

  0000 0001 // bitfield
| 0010 1100 // bits to add
-----------
  0010 1101

if any of the bits is 1, it becomes 1

bit = bitA == 1 || bitB == 1 basically, for every bit in the number

for & it's bit = bitA == 1 && bitB == 1

so if any is 0, it becomes 0

so when you use it to check if a bit is ON, you're just masking out every other bit, so it'll either be 0 or the value of mask

[sharp geyser]

"INSERT INTO student (full_name, password, email, campus_id) VALUES ($1,$2,$3,$4) RETURNING *" is there anything wrong with this SQL ?

It seems to not be inserting anything, but it does return the record's values so idk

[lament rock]

Are you using a prepare database somewhere?

[sharp geyser]

yea

I found out the issue though

I am using transactions and forgor to commit them

💀

[lament rock]

yup thats it

[sharp geyser]

Now it works properly

[lament rock]

also, transactions dont really benefit the database unless its like in the millions of rows

[sharp geyser]

wym?

transactions are useful if something happens it will rollback, which if this reaches the scale I hope it will that will be very beneficial

[lament rock]

Ah you're using it for the rollback feature

[sharp geyser]

Yea

[lament rock]

Transactions advertise some performance benefit

[sharp geyser]

Ah, yea that doesn't matter much to me right now

All I care about is that it will rolleback changes if commit is never called which I now know works

[surreal sage]

peak design

i cant close the modal

💀

[sharp geyser]

Join the newsletter and then you can escape

[hidden gorge]

Quick question is it recommened to use sharding when you have 53+ servers or no?

[deft wolf]

Sharding is probably "recommended" for a thousand or two thousand servers. With 2.5 thousand servers it is required

You'll have to use it sooner or later anyway, so there's no harm in getting interested in sharding now

[harsh nova]

nope

if you use d.js sharding will make you use unnecessary memory and spend time on something you dont need

even if you reach the 2.5k mark discord.js offers automatic sharding which means you dont need to rewrite any code at all

[hidden gorge]

Ok thanks guy.

[past field]

what does sharding mean

[quartz kindle]

sharding means splitting something into multiple copies

in discord's context, it means splitting your bot into multiple connections, each connection handling a certain amount of guilds

its the system discord uses to balance the load for big bots

sharding is recommended once your bot reaches 1500 guilds, and it becomes required once it reaches 2500 guilds

most libraries already include support for sharding, and usually what they do is they run multiple copies of your bot for you, and each copy manages a different set of guilds

[past field]

hm. ok i gotcha, never knew that worked like that

maybe one day i’ll get to the point of learning to do that

[wheat mesa]

Kinda unrelated, but what font is discord using for codeblocks now? I kind of like it, might have to use it as an editor font ```java
public class Main {
public static void main(String[] args) {
System.out.println("Hello, world!");
}
}

[sharp geyser]

maybe monaco

actually nah

[quartz kindle]

if you're talking about the customid field, yes you can do that

as long is it fits the limits

[pale vessel]

it's their own "gg mono" so you'll have to get the files yourself inside your client's source. it looks similar to "source code pro" that they used previously though

[smoky nexus]

How do you guys stage your bots? Just create a new Discord Bot for each stage?

[deft wolf]

"Stage"?

[pale vessel]

yeah

[pale vessel]

basically how you test your bots before reaching production

[smoky nexus]

Dev, Tst, Prd

[civic scroll]

never seen someone writing it like that

it's dev, a-b (test), and then prod for me

[civic scroll]

2, one for dev / test
another for prod

or if you feeling ballsy - one for all

dev should already be test

after all you are not making an enterprise-grade application

[smoky nexus]

I just adopted it from work. We use 3 letter names, sometimes a or b is appended. dev, tst, int, acc, edu, prd are the stages we use.

[civic scroll]

i use full name

[smoky nexus]

https://tenor.com/view/fix-bug-in-production-fix-bug-production-ti-it-gif-13502120

[civic scroll]

only shortened for well-known

[smoky nexus]

Lol, is your mod a permissions mod or was that some super funky bug?

[lyric mountain]

gg mono

[lyric mountain]

jb mono is in fact the apex of monotype

[radiant kraken]

nah

roboto mono ftw

even consolas is great

[pale vessel]

fira code with ligatures

[radiant kraken]

will look into it

lookin pretty fire https://github.com/tonsky/FiraCode

[smoky nexus]

Does discord support markdown badges? I can´t get mine to work like in GitHub.

[pale vessel]

discord doesn't support markdown images

[lyric mountain]

Discord doesn't support 50% of markdown

[pale vessel]

even if they do, you probably need to convert them to png instead of svg (some of the badges support that afaik)

[lyric mountain]

doesnt work with embed images too btw, since discord really doesn't like dynamic image urls

the caching doesn't allow it

[neon leaf]

random query params 👍

[whole glen]

client.application.owner give null

[lyric mountain]

🫱🔮🫲 hmmm lemme see

nop, nothing, not even the crystal ball knows the issue without the code

[sharp geyser]

💀

thats the most creative way of telling someone that you can't do shit without code i've seen

[lyric mountain]

[frosty gale]

if i remember with d.js getting your application or the details in the application client its not as straight forward

[sharp geyser]

you have to fetch the application

[frosty gale]

sounds about right

[sharp geyser]

client.application.fetch().owner

iirc

though it returns a promise so you have to await it

[frosty gale]

yep

didnt know it was a "partial" as well

[sharp geyser]

let app = await client.application.fetch();

app.owner```

its a partial?

[frosty gale]

its a field so i would assume it could be

in djs terms i think partial just means it might or might not be present depending on context

in cache at least or by default*

[sharp geyser]

Oh right

idk why you have to fetch it tbh

it should be available at ready

[hidden gorge]

Any reason its returning: An error has occurred: TypeError: Cannot read properties of undefined (reading 'avatarURL')

Its in the same file as the client

app.get('/contributors', async (req, res) => {
  const HyperID = 1042818144890278060;
  const NickID = 518507870812110880;
  const BestonID = 474286442982539321;

  try {
    const HyperUser = await client.users.cache.get(HyperID)
    const NickUser = await client.users.cache.get(NickID)
    const BestonUser = await client.users.cache.get(BestonID)

    console.log(HyperUser, NickUser, BestonUser)

    const HyperIcon = HyperUser.avatarURL()
    const NickIcon = NickUser.avatarURL()
    const BestonIcon = BestonUser.avatarURL()

    res.render('pages/public_pages/contributors', { Hyper: HyperIcon, Nick: NickIcon, Beston: BestonIcon });
  } catch (e) {
    console.error("An error has occurred:", e);
    res.status(500).send("An error has occurred. Please try again later.");
  }
});

[frosty gale]

couple of issues in your code but its likely because your ID's "hyperID, nickID, bestonID" are defined as numbers

IDs on discord as defined as strings so you need to wrap the IDs with quotes

so "" or ''

[hidden gorge]

Ok i'll test that

Same error.

[frosty gale]

and second since you are fetching the users from cache its not guaranteed they are present because the cache only keeps users that were used before

[hidden gorge]

what could i do other than cache?

[frosty gale]

you should ideally do something like await client.users.fetch(ID) instead

[hidden gorge]

ok

[frosty gale]

this will try get the user from the cache and if its not there it will fetch it from the API

and when getting things from the cache (so .cache) you dont need await since the operation is guaranteed to be instant

[hidden gorge]

this happened...

[frosty gale]

unlike .fetch which may ask the discord API for the user which takes a random amount of time

[hidden gorge]

ok i fixe dit thanks Chloe

[hidden gorge]

oh thats fun

[blissful coral]

Anybody have any idea why my GH is looking like this I cant fix

Cant click anything either its weird

[hidden gorge]

Broken CSS and JS?

[blissful coral]

Not sure its on safari but ive cleared everything and getting the same issue

[sharp geyser]

what kind of protocol does postgres use when making connections?

[frosty gale]

willing to bet its some dark mode theme/extension thats conflicting with the page

[sharp geyser]

how is sql sent to postgres

[hidden gorge]

cant help you

[frosty gale]

documentation says it uses tcp which is about standard

but not sure about the structure or kind of data that gets sent

[sharp geyser]

🤔

so its essentially just http rest calls back and forth?

[frosty gale]

no i'd imagine it would first establish a tcp connection, then once all the negotiation is done the client sends a query across the connection and server responds with the response to that query

Within normal operation, SQL commands can be executed through either of two sub-protocols. In the "simple query" protocol, the frontend just sends a textual query string, which is parsed and immediately executed by the backend. In the "extended query" protocol, processing of queries is separated into multiple steps: parsing, binding of parameter values, and execution. This offers flexibility and performance benefits, at the cost of extra complexity.

so it looks like clients on the low level can literally just send text that is an SQL query and the server will respond to it in some format with the data or an error

assuming youre not using things like templates for sql injection, etc

[sharp geyser]

🤔

[frosty gale]

which in the other case will use some more complex structure which will still contain your SQL query as text but with additional information

[sharp geyser]

hm

[frosty gale]

why do youw anna know anyways

[sharp geyser]

Just was curious, cause I was working on a project that takes roblox lua dictionaries and turn them into sql tables that get sent to a pg database

Was wondering if there was anyway I can make this easier, but roblox doesn't allow making tcp connections

I'd have to do what I was originally doing which is just make a rest api as a go between

[frosty gale]

yeah looks like you can only use http

what you can do which is also safer and easier is to make a http server off of roblox which has an api that interacts with your postgres database

then the roblox server can make requests to it

[sharp geyser]

that's what I am currently doing

[frosty gale]

definitely much better and reliable than trying to write your own postgres client on roblox at least

[sharp geyser]

Oh for sure

I don't think it is even possible

At least not with my skill level

[frosty gale]

tcp is annoying to work with anyways because its binary and tcp data can either be grouped together or split into 2 packets which requires you to write some kind of frame algorithm that defines the length for each data sent by TCP so the recipient knows how large the transmission is supposed to be

[sharp geyser]

Yea no thanks

I'd let the smarter people do this for me :)

[quartz kindle]

thats pretty easy to do tbh

prepend each packet with a couple of bytes containing the packet size
on the receiving end read those bytes, start a reading loop until there is enough data to read the packet, then restart the loop with whatever leftovers you have

[frosty gale]

yeah in theory its simple and i have implemented that before but its easy to mess up and write a suboptimal solution

especially one thats vulnerable to attacks

[rugged delta]

Hallo

Can someone pls help me make a bot??

Me need SOS need...

[frosty gale]

and in js its even more annoying because you have to go through uint8arrays and their own tcp interface

but once you get it implemented tcp is relatively straight forward

[rugged delta]

I dont understand a word ur speaking lmao

[frosty gale]

thats ok i was talking to tim

[frosty gale]

what kind of help do you need

[rugged delta]

come to DMs

@frosty gale you left??

Ok - nvm

[frosty gale]

you have to understand people spend their free time to help out here

so id rather try help you here that way if im gone or dont know someone can chime in and help instead

[sharp geyser]

I has a question in the design of it.

Previously what I did was something like

local user_table = {
  table_name = "user",
  columns = {
    {
      column_name = "id",
      column_type = "text"
      -- then there could be optional fields like default, nullable, primary, etc
    }
  }
}

On the api I would basically form the request by just grabbing the values and looping over the columns to put them into the query string mind you this is not safe since I am not sanatizing them since idk the proper way to do this since I can't use paramertized statements

What would you recommend to properly sanatize the incoming table structure

This isn't a specific question to just Chloe, so if anyone has any feedback lmk

[frosty gale]

so youre saying youre doing something like SELECT * FROM x WHERE col = ${some_variable_from_request_here} and want to protect against injection without templates/params processing?

[sharp geyser]

Essentially yea

I am dynamically forming the sql query based on the table they are sending

[solemn latch]

👀 @quartz kindle
https://i.imgur.com/L8oscMR.png

[sharp geyser]

That example right there is what they would send if they are creating a table

[frosty gale]

why cant you use templates, does the library not support it or something? its basically a must have for any sql library that wants to be production ready

[sharp geyser]

wdym by templates

[frosty gale]

params

[sharp geyser]

oh

Well, depending on how I am forming the sql query no

sqlx only allows params for values, I have to form the first part of the sql and then param any values

so if they were inserting something i'd have to do INSERT INTO ${table_name_from_request} (${values_they_inserting}) VALUES ($1,$2,etc)

and then I can param the values

[frosty gale]

ah okay so you sort of want users to insert custom columns and values

or you

i would try move away from this type of thing because you cant sanitize it easily

[sharp geyser]

🤔

Actually now that I think about it

[frosty gale]

the first part which is table name is not a problem you can just check if the string is an actual table name and insert it

but the problem is the columns

[sharp geyser]

why not just create a pg user for each person who signs up

if they sql inject their own db

[lament rock]

I made my own orm which generates statements with prepared statements. I think it's a good reference. Mind you this is made for postgres, but it won't take much to get it to work for mssql based systems https://github.com/AmandaDiscord/Amanda/blob/restart/packages/sql/src/orm.ts

[sharp geyser]

I use postgres

[lament rock]

Welp then there you go!

[sharp geyser]

tbh I dont think i actually have to worry about sql injection

[lament rock]

You do

[sharp geyser]

I mean, I will be having it run on their own user

[frosty gale]

its quite dangerous letting users execute arbitrary queries even if you have isolated users because its easy to mess up and databases usually arent designed to be secure around that

[sharp geyser]

damnit

back to the drawing board

[lament rock]

Yeah I'd say just take a look at my system. You can also see how it generates the statements before you try to run them

[sharp geyser]

ima be real

idk how to read js/ts code anymore 😭

[lament rock]

There are guards against UPDATE all and DELETE all

[frosty gale]

for the columns cant you just do something like that users can specify the columns in an array so ["column1", "column2"], then iterate over the entire array and see if they are actual columns in the database and are characters A-Z 0-9 and if not, reject it

then you can safely insert those columns into the query

[sharp geyser]

that's fine for an insert query

but other stuff not so much

[lament rock]

I need to extend my orm because it only supports simple statements. It isn't class or context based

[frosty gale]

what is your aim for this overall

[lament rock]

nothing like select(columns).from(table)

[frosty gale]

letting users set up their own database and query it?

[sharp geyser]

Yea

Its supposed to be a replacement for Datastores

with a more relational db

[frosty gale]

how would it look like to a user using it

[sharp geyser]

Well, tbh I might just do away with using dictionaries and just let them write their own sql

Since the target audience is more advanced users

[lament rock]

That could be dangerous

[sharp geyser]

It could be, but it is more saner for me.

[frosty gale]

and even if it isnt for the security aspect a user can just run a query that completely cripples your system because its an intensive query

[sharp geyser]

[lament rock]

until someone bombs your server

[sharp geyser]

Look Ophidian, idk shit about db management 😭

[lament rock]

Then are you sure doing this is a good idea

[quartz kindle]

ye, im insane (as in mentally ill)

[sharp geyser]

probably not, but im not going to let a hiccup stop me from experiementing

[lament rock]

Alright then I won't persuade you otherwise

[sharp geyser]

It's really just a hobby project

and if I can make it secure enough and stable enough to use why not let others try it out

[frosty gale]

how come you get an experienced role

no fair

whats the requirement

[quartz kindle]

dafuq

[solemn latch]

;p

[quartz kindle]

sneaky

[sharp geyser]

I mean

lets be real

[deft wolf]

[sharp geyser]

tim is quite literally the most experienced here

but how does NyNu have it

🤔

[frosty gale]

i mean he is like 30

[sharp geyser]

how does age have anything to do with it

[quartz kindle]

last time a special role like this was made, it was later removed because people got jealous

[sharp geyser]

thats an insult

[frosty gale]

coded for ages lol

[sharp geyser]

Okay?

Age has nothing to do with it

[frosty gale]

why are you getting offended for him

he knows i wouldnt purposefully insult him (i hope)

[sharp geyser]

Im not getting offended for him, im offended at the idea that experience comes with age

[deft wolf]

So now it's time to completely stay away from this server

[sharp geyser]

rather than hard work

[solemn latch]

Do you want it removed?

[deft wolf]

Nah, it was a joke

[quartz kindle]

its all talent my dude, i dont work at all, let alone hard

[lament rock]

Shit I been doing this for 7-8 years. Still not tim level tho. I think Tim earned it 👍

[quartz kindle]

:^)

[solemn latch]

We don't want it to feel forced on anyone, so if you do want it removed let someone know

[deft wolf]

I mean... jealous of the role? Really?

This sounds ridiculous

[quartz kindle]

honestly you deserve it as well, i've seen your work, its pretty good

[lament rock]

You flatter me

[frosty gale]

i mean in general it does and its a common trend to believe that way when it comes to life

[sharp geyser]

I disagree

If you work hard enough you can become just as experienced as those with a larger age gap than you

[frosty gale]

sure, i agree with that

[real rose]

jsut want to strongly emphasise this has nothing to do with age and i have no idea how old any of you are

[solemn latch]

It's just a role name, I wouldn't go this far into it.

[frosty gale]

my intention was mainly to say that since hes older he would have the opportunity to start learning longer than someone who is younger for example

and since you said "experienced"

[quartz kindle]

inb4 the role is removed because it caused a discussion

[deft wolf]

XD

[frosty gale]

experience usually refers to the amount of time youve been doing something so thats what ive been talking about

[solemn latch]

Nah, it's a good discussion. Hopefully an announcement will be posted to clear things up.

It's likely to only be removed for drama, but we're hoping for some maturity.

[frosty gale]

ofc you could do something for a year and be better than someone thats done it for 10 years

[quartz kindle]

btw what does the role actually mean? for all we know it could mean experienced in nsfw things :^)

[sharp geyser]

I agree that tim and NyNu should have the role

a lot of others as well

haku, chloe, papi

to name a few

[quartz kindle]

bring back voltrex

and speedy

[sharp geyser]

voltrex deserves a role beyond experienced

[lament rock]

@voltrex

What

[sharp geyser]

bro basically wrote the v8 engine tbh

He knows the v8 engine like the back of his hand

[frosty gale]

oh wait forgot hes banned like the many good people that were here for some arbitrary reason

[sharp geyser]

He has to appeal

if he hasn't already

[real rose]

Going for a re-trial, it's proven to be super successful in other places. Just to be that bit more helpful towards new users we want people with proven experience and who have helped in the past to stand out that bit more. This is also to go against some of the jokers who interrupt genuine "helpful conversations".

I'm hoping that when we make an announcement the criteria will be made clear and it shouldn't be considered a competition, race, or "superiority" over others.

It takes time for mods to see activity and helpful-ness from certain users, which is what actually drives this role. And spoiler, you don't just have to be a dev giving advice in #development

If anyone has any questions then feel free to bring them up, but if the first reaction you give is to stomp your feet that you don't have it, then I don't know what else to say other than it's ruining your chances.

(not directed at Tim, just the context of your message I wanted to bring up ref: #site-status message)

Also want to mention that we used to have a Contributors role which was application-based, but had a similar purpose.

wanted to mention that in advance of any other questions or convos^

[quartz kindle]

ty for wall of text

:^)

[sharp geyser]

ong

[quartz kindle]

i was literally about to say that, but decided not to

[real rose]

can't wait to link it when I see someone stomp their feet for not having a snot green role

[sharp geyser]

now i have a goal in top.gg

get the experienced role

😏

[real rose]

if it means helping people, then I'm all for it

[sharp geyser]

I just need people to ask questions about rust 🦗

[lament rock]

Time to learn ts and js

[solemn latch]

I was more thinking mouldy Easter egg color.

[quartz kindle]

time to play maplestory instead of working

[lament rock]

real

[sharp geyser]

time to make something so I can also be in staff picks /j

[sharp geyser]

btw woo

how's life been haven't seen you in a bit

[lament rock]

My bot will probably never be picked if Discord is breathing down Top.gg's neck

[sharp geyser]

yikes

what is ur bot

[lament rock]

Music boat

[sharp geyser]

Oh yea gl

[solemn latch]

Busy busy busy. For someone who is online all the time I've not been at my desk much in the past month

[sharp geyser]

oof

I feel that

[solemn latch]

I miss it here

[lament rock]

irl job got me fucked up

[sharp geyser]

uprooting my life and moving across the US has been very busy for me as well

[harsh nova]

time for #general perchance

[sharp geyser]

oh no fish is here

gotta leave

[harsh nova]

sup

[solemn latch]

Run away

[sharp geyser]

no ty

<3

We are talking about the development of our lives fish

you wouldn't understand

😔

[harsh nova]

👍

[sharp geyser]

What even is the staff pick role

[solemn latch]

Kinda development related. Can a pihole be setup on my server but restricted to a specific IP(mine) or have a password? 👀

Surely someone has setup a pihole

I want to setup a vps to be a pihole, but I don't want others using it ^-^

[lament rock]

firewall can restrict ips likely

[sharp geyser]

does piehol have a setup var file?

I can't remember if it does

[lament rock]

Or if you can only access it via LAN then just dont port forward

[solemn latch]

Oh good idea

[sharp geyser]

https://discourse.pi-hole.net/t/how-to-bind-pi-hole-to-a-specific-ip-alias-on-a-system-using-netplan/60469/7 maybe this is what you are looking for? idk what you are using

[lament rock]

This is likely just binding the listen server to an ip

[sharp geyser]

hm, yea

idk the only other thing I see is editing setupVars.conf but that doesn't look like it will produce the required result

[lament rock]

I think firewall is the move

[sharp geyser]

yea

[whole glen]

thank you also sorry for the confusion I was in a rush and was wondering why it was not working not used to having to use fetch and using another line

[wooden ember]

Is there a way to revert this back to normal? is is this just another needless change that discord devs are upto?

[harsh nova]

you could revert your discord version I guess

[sharp geyser]

I see no issue with it why do people complain

[wooden ember]

its not version spesific, its like this on an alt.

[sharp geyser]

Then it definitely is

Your client could be different then what your alt is logged in as

[wooden ember]

cuz its a bot... not an application though

[sharp geyser]

But it is an application

[lament rock]

Oh it is an app

[sharp geyser]

🤔

You just happen to turn that application into a bot account

[wooden ember]

nah i switched back to my main and nothing is updated

[harsh nova]

anyhow that is outside of the scope of this channel. Better discussed in #general

[wooden ember]

fair

[haughty tundra]

hello. is it possible to like display only the icon (arrow) of an OptionMenu/ComboBox for tkinter?

[past field]

is it possible to have the bot kick out all users with a specific role ID?

[sharp geyser]

Yes

You will have to loop through the people that have that role and then kick them.

Careful though as if there are a lot of users it can be api spammy.

Best thing to do is do it in batches if there is a lot of people.

[past field]

is 91 considered a lot of people?

i have an “unverified” role that double center assigns upon entering and and swaps it for a verified role once they verify.

rn i have 91 ppl who never verified but i don’t want to kick them 1 by 1 lmao

[sharp geyser]

more than 10 is already a lot tbh

[past field]

ah

[sharp geyser]

There are rate limits on the api

and some of those endpoints have specific rate limits which defeats the purpose of global rate limits tbh but who cares right :^)

Either way, depsite what those rate limits are, you will end up hitting it with 91 for sure

If you truly want to automate it you can do it in batches of 10-20 roughly though someone smarter than me might have a better solution

[pale vessel]

you could just make the bot slowly kick them if you're not in a rush

[sharp geyser]

or yes do what flaze said.

[past field]

i mean i kinda did this with my prune command

[pale vessel]

just have a significant delay between the kicks, maybe 10s. eventually you'll kick them all

[past field]

i know the limit is 100 messages but i’ve got it looped for anything more than 100

[sharp geyser]

15m to kick all 91 members

[past field]

better than doing it 1 by 1 loool

[past field]

ok i’ll try this

[sharp geyser]

Honestly you should be fine to do it in small batches

iirc thats what dyno does

or did

can't remember which

[past field]

iirc? googles

[sharp geyser]

if i remember correctly

[rose warren]

Dyno kicks one every 1 - 3 seconds I believe

[deft wolf]

Dyno doesn't have an increased rate limit by any chance? I once heard something that these larger bots have this option

[lament rock]

This is only for their identify limit

[deft wolf]

I see

[lament rock]

Rip to Bot and Verified bot tags

Hello App and Verified app

[rose warren]

The standard rate limit for identifying is 1 shard per 5 seconds. But bots in over 150k servers can identify 16 shards in parallel. Apart from that there are no special rate limit increases I'm aware of.

[deft wolf]

App is not that bad, look at polish version. This is one of the reasons I use the English-language discord, because just as the bot does not translate into Polish, the app can be translated, which makes it look a bit "weird"

[pale vessel]

アプリ

[deft wolf]

The "app" badge is often longer than the name of the bot itself

[lament rock]

Amazing

[hard dust]

In German it would be "Applikation" but they let it on APP

maby bc APP would also be the abbreviation in german? idk

[humble gyro]

probably will be fixed tbh, my guess it's just localization not aware of constraints

[quartz kindle]

lmao

in slovenian its probably "APLIKACIJA", with an extra I in it, but idk i use english

[radiant kraken]

best way to store your gpg keys

[quartz kindle]

https://github.com/timotejroiko/sweph/issues/21 lmao

someone didnt read the readme

[neon leaf]

Nice U got experienced role

[radiant kraken]

i forgot my gpg passkey a few hours after setting it up

wtf is wrong with my brain

[harsh aspen]

who reads that anyways

[timber hatch]

is topgg hosted serverless or serverful?

[spark flint]

i dont think thats public info

[timber hatch]

ah understandable, was just having a debate with @low orbit and this would've resolved it :(

[spark flint]

ah

[spark flint]

i think its serverless actually

somehow

[frosty gale]

serverless is such a scam

there's still a server somewhere

[spark flint]

yes

[timber hatch]

multiple, if the service is deploying to edge. the point is it’s easier to maintain and scale

not so much with lambda, but services like cercek and netlify make it easy as hell

[quartz kindle]

serverless is fine for some things

but the whole concept of distributed/microservice architecture is overhyped and often misused

most times you're just adding unnecessary traffic and load to the wrong places and convoluting your entire network

[neon leaf]

this took way longer than it shouldve

[frosty gale]

I really like supabase and would use it but if you're going to host it on your own server I feel like it defeats the point of being serverless and might as well make a standard server app

it's useful for people moving away from a serverless structure to their own self hosted but the complications and annoyances might be meh

I see serverless as being able to cut down on costs by only having the things you strictly need as a backend

so you can spin up a tiny macro to run some task and call it a day

[lyric mountain]

what happens if you 10s 10s

[neon leaf]

20000

[lyric mountain]

oh, so it considers repeated statements

[neon leaf]

yeah, 1w -1d 2d is same as 1w 1d

[exotic hull]

Between java and javascript which should i learn first, I've learnt html and css and asked some friend he said learn java and javascript will be very easy after that

[lyric mountain]

they're wildly different

personally I recommend java, as it'll make you actually care about types and classes

which makes easier to learn other strict languages

[exotic hull]

So first java and then javascript

[lyric mountain]

they're not connected at all

[exotic hull]

Ik but someone told it'll be easier to learn javascript after you learn java

[lyric mountain]

does it have numeric dates? like your Jan 2 2022 example but with only numbers

like 1 2 2022

[neon leaf]

no

[lyric mountain]

both languages only share "java" on the name, their approach to a lot of stuff differ to the fundamental level

[neon leaf]

nevermind it works

[lyric mountain]

you'll have an easier time either way because the syntax is vaguely similar

[lyric mountain]

then you need to check for current locale

[exotic hull]

Ik it's as similar as car and carpenter but still i gotta decide which one should i learn first

[neon leaf]

yeah, Date should do that right?

[lyric mountain]

if it's US, then mon day year, else day mon year

[neon leaf]

I basically just try parsing with Date

and if it fails I do my own

[lyric mountain]

ah

[lyric mountain]

are you learning to learn or learning to make something?

like, do you have an end goal?

[exotic hull]

I'm studying btech so i gotta learn some langauges to bag a internship and i too have java in my 3rd sem, I'm currently in 2nd sem

Learning c++😮‍💨😮‍💨

[lyric mountain]

then go with java, as you can use whatever you learn on 3rd sem

[exotic hull]

Fck keyboard

[lyric mountain]

one way or another, you'll need to apply it onto something

prog knowledge quickly decays if not used

[exotic hull]

Yeah ikik

How much time will it take to get to intermediate level in Java

[exotic hull]

And about end goal i wanna learn react native and redux

[lyric mountain]

depends on how fast you learn things, and what you consider "intermediate"

[radiant kraken]

@quartz kindle can you help me with this, experienced

here's package.json:

  "devDependencies": {
    "@types/node": "^20.12.7",
    "@typescript-eslint/eslint-plugin": "^7.7.0",
    "@typescript-eslint/parser": "^7.7.0",
    "eslint": "^9.0.0",
    "eslint-plugin-jsdoc": "^48.2.3",
    "prettier": "^3.2.5",
    "typescript": "^5.4.5"
  }

[lyric mountain]

I always think about programming knowledge as "cant do" and "can do"

[quartz kindle]

lmao

[lyric mountain]

you either can program or you cant

[exotic hull]

Between beginner and master

[exotic hull]

Nice thought process

[lyric mountain]

and what do you define as beginner and master?

[exotic hull]

If you know basics clearly
If you know everything about it

[lyric mountain]

well, that's a scale that goes from 0 to infinity

[quartz kindle]

you have eslint 9 but ts-eslint/parser uses eslint 8, so npm doesn know what tf to do

[lyric mountain]

hard to define where infinity / 2 is

[quartz kindle]

npm is dumb

[radiant kraken]

imo u start becoming a master when you can look at other people's code and find things to refactor/improve on it :^)

that's where i draw the line

[exotic hull]

...

[radiant kraken]

thanks, experienced ❤️

[lyric mountain]

reach native is js

[quartz kindle]

reach native

[lyric mountain]

redux too from what google told me

[exotic hull]

My friend told go for java then javascript them react.js then react native

[quartz kindle]

ignore your friend

[lyric mountain]

yeah, the path forks 90º there

[exotic hull]

So what should i do

[quartz kindle]

if you wanna learn react native, then learn react native

[exotic hull]

Bruv i gotta learn other languages too

[radiant kraken]

here's mine:
python -> javascript -> (brief period: java -> c#) -> typescript -> c -> c++ -> rust

[quartz kindle]

you learn based on what you need to know

1. figure out what you want to do
2. figure out what you need to know to do that
3. learn it and do it

[exotic hull]

I'm currently studying c++ in college

[wheat mesa]

Honestly Java -> TypeScript -> C++ -> Rust was mine

(With some others in between like C# but that’s basically Java)

[radiant kraken]

i dont know much about java or c# lol

well from my knowledge of js and c it should be quite straight forward

[lyric mountain]

my path was
expression 2 -> c -> c++ -> pascal -> js -> deplhi -> java -> lua -> python -> c# -> jsfuck -> groovy

[wheat mesa]

Not really close to the same language

[quartz kindle]

jsfuck lmao

[wheat mesa]

But you’d probably be fine, they’re easy to learn

[lyric mountain]

yes, was a busy week

I also forgot it all already

[wheat mesa]

Java/C# are the best first languages imo

[radiant kraken]

yup, i've familiarized myself with gradle

[wheat mesa]

Gradle sucks and I hate it but it’s also not as bad as CMake

[lyric mountain]

oh also dart

learned it recently

[wheat mesa]

CMake is decent but like C++ package management in general is awful

[quartz kindle]

just be a javascript one trick pony monochampion

[wheat mesa]

(And earn the experienced role in the meantime)

[radiant kraken]

C++'s ecosystem is a giant mess

[exotic hull]

Aight imma go for java and then javascript

[wheat mesa]

Just keep in mind that Java and js are not nearly the same

[quartz kindle]

its not an ecosystem, its an ecological disaster and mass extinction event

[wheat mesa]

They have similar syntax and that’s about it

[exotic hull]

I KNOWW

[radiant kraken]

well, syntax-wise they are

[lyric mountain]

cmake is great if you're using it, not so much if you're using it

[wheat mesa]

But so do many C-like languages

[radiant kraken]

can confirm

still-maintained projects with 50k stars mixed with ancient projects from 1997

[quartz kindle]

boost is the asteroid

[wheat mesa]

Crazy how a couple people cooked up the most popular programming syntax just a few years after computers were becoming widespread and we still use it half a century later

[lyric mountain]

I mean, it's a concise syntax

[radiant kraken]

i got it all handled

[wheat mesa]

It is but it’s so simple that it’s genius

[exotic hull]

I'm doomed😭

I can't figure out which language should i go with

[wheat mesa]

What do you want to do

Web? Backend? Performance-heavy applications?

[radiant kraken]

^

[wheat mesa]

REST APIs?

[lyric mountain]

pacemaker software

[wheat mesa]

Etc

[radiant kraken]

what drove me was the boredom during quarantine lol

and curiosity

[exotic hull]

Honestly idk i just wanna learn different languages rn, I'm currently in 2nd sem so i got time to think about it

[wheat mesa]

2nd sem in college?

[exotic hull]

Yeah

[wheat mesa]

I wouldn’t wait because that mentality will lead to procrastination

I’m 2nd semester in college as well

[exotic hull]

Ik but i need some guidence

[lyric mountain]

go with java, it's well estabilished and forces you to learn good practices

and it's a gateway to other c-like langs

[wheat mesa]

Java is always a solid choice. Every developer should learn it (or a flavor of it) at some point

Can’t go wrong with Java

[exotic hull]

Java will start in August when I'll be in 3rd sem idk till then if I'll forgot basics coz after basics of Java I'll go with javascript

[wheat mesa]

Don’t wait for your classes to “teach” you

[exotic hull]

Coz I've learn html and css so i gotta complete that web dev thing

[wheat mesa]

A CS degree is less about programming and more about theory

The only way you’ll learn how to actually program is by applying what you’ve learned to personal projects

[exotic hull]

Nah i gotta learn before that

[radiant kraken]

i'm glad i didn't take a CS degree and went for IT instead

[wheat mesa]

People that come out of uni with just a degree and no actual projects or experience have a hard time getting a job

[exotic hull]

I joined college for sake of degree, rest i gotta learn myself

[lyric mountain]

college java courses usually teach outdated approaches and use REALLY obsolete versions

[radiant kraken]

CS sounds like way too much physics for me

[wheat mesa]

CS is two semesters of physics, it’s not that hard

[radiant kraken]

i failed every physics exam in high school lmao

dont wanna risk dropping out

[exotic hull]

So y'all tell me which languages should i go with

[wheat mesa]

Java

[exotic hull]

Physics sucks now, i was good back then

[radiant kraken]

physics is not really my thing

[exotic hull]

Too much intriguing

[wheat mesa]

Physics is pretty easy ngl

[exotic hull]

Was*

[wheat mesa]

Once you understand the concepts the math becomes easier

That’s the important part

[exotic hull]

Now I'm leaned towards coding

[wheat mesa]

Maybe it’s because I’ve suffered through 2.5 years of physics but still

[exotic hull]

..

[wheat mesa]

We said Java about 8 times

Just saying

[exotic hull]

Okay😭

[wheat mesa]

Not trying to be passive aggressive sorry

[lyric mountain]

if ur reluctant in going with java then you already subconciously chose javascript

in which case go with js

[wheat mesa]

Java is a great language because it teaches you the fundamentals of CS without diving TOO deep into memory

C++ is fine to learn but is a bit more difficult to debug when you have issues as a beginner to it

[exotic hull]

No i wanna go with java but like I've learned html and css so it's like leaving web dev half behind

[wheat mesa]

HTML and CSS is markup, not a programming language. If you want to learn web dev, go ahead and learn js. If you are interested in doing other things though, I’d go with Java

[exotic hull]

I'm in such a dilemma

[exotic hull]

Okay java it is then

[lyric mountain]

it's not like you need to forfeit one to choose the other

[wheat mesa]

Your time is wasted by debating what language to learn, just pick one and learn it

It doesn’t matter all that much, you can always choose a different one to learn later (or even at the same time if you’re feeling confident!)

[exotic hull]

Any playlists on yt from where i should learn

[lyric mountain]

none

[wheat mesa]

Personally I’ve learned (at least on a decent level) Java, C#, C++, Rust, Go, TypeScript, and some Python

[lyric mountain]

languages evolve way too fast for yt to keep up

[wheat mesa]

Don’t learn from videos

They suck

Use the docs for the language you pick

[exotic hull]

Java docs?

[lyric mountain]

uhhh....well, somewhat but dont read it from the actual site

[wheat mesa]

Videos are fine when exploring conceptual problems, like learning about data structures and algorithms and what they do, but as for actual programming skill, don’t try to learn that from YouTube

[lyric mountain]

first step, choose a goal

what do you want to make?

[wheat mesa]

^^^ Oracle’s docs for java are pretty outdated and rough

Just think of a reasonable starter project (maybe a small terminal app) and look things up as you go

[exotic hull]

Nothing just for internship purpose (rn)

[lyric mountain]

and javadocs is nigh unreadable from web

[wheat mesa]

That’s the wrong motivation

[lyric mountain]

you need a goal to learn

[exotic hull]

And also in 3rd sem it's java so gotta be prepared

[lyric mountain]

like, I always try to make a snake game or a calculator

[wheat mesa]

Internships should come from your passion for learning, your passion for learning should not come from trying to get internships

[radiant kraken]

^

dont program just for the money

[exotic hull]

The thing is i wanna learn so much at one time I'm in such a dilemma

[wheat mesa]

I’m struggling to find internships right now

[radiant kraken]

US moment

[wheat mesa]

Applied to 100+ and no interviews

[radiant kraken]

have you tried freelancing?

[exotic hull]

Where y'all from

[wheat mesa]

I am on a final interview with a summer camp STEM instructor for engineering though so that’s promising

[wheat mesa]

US

[radiant kraken]

southeast asia

[lyric mountain]

brazil

[wheat mesa]

You’ve got a wide variety of perspectives here :p

[radiant kraken]

mr. worldwide

[lyric mountain]

let's start it correctly: choose ONE simple project to make with java, doesn't need to be anything useful

[wheat mesa]

^^

That’s how you learn most new languages

[lyric mountain]

just say "I'm going to make X" (not the social network)

[wheat mesa]

Start off with something like basic user input and output

Something that takes a user’s name and outputs it backwards

Something like that

[exotic hull]

How about i keep a goal rn "a notes app"?

[lyric mountain]

ok, so here's the goal, a notes app

now lets break it into malleable pieces

[wheat mesa]

Or maybe even just takes user input and outputs it back to the console
What’s your name: Name
Hello, Name!

Etc

[exotic hull]

I've learnt python on a beginner level and learning c++ so not that much basic

[wheat mesa]

Just to learn the basics of how to declare variables and such

[radiant kraken]

blud went from python to c++ 💀

[wheat mesa]

That’s still pretty basic

[lyric mountain]

a notes app will involve a database, a way to get user input and a way to show data to the user

[radiant kraken]

bro went from 0 to 100 real quick

[lyric mountain]

this I'm talking about a common windows app, you dont want to go into mobile just yet

[wheat mesa]

Basic C++ is not insanely hard, nor is Java. But it’s important to understand the fundamentals to move on to the intermediate concepts

[exotic hull]

My college bruv, blame it

[lyric mountain]

start by laying the foundation

[radiant kraken]

std::cout << was alien to me when i was still a beginner

[lyric mountain]

you dont need a database for now, do the other steps beforehand: user input & data visualization

[exotic hull]

using namespace std; save dme

[radiant kraken]

im not talking about that

im talking about the << operator overloading

[wheat mesa]

Too bad you never want to do this in the real world

[radiant kraken]

shit way to introduce newbies tbf

[exotic hull]

Ohk

[lyric mountain]

will you use GUI or CLI?

as in, visual interface or command line?

[wheat mesa]

That’s what I hate about college, they don’t show you actual real world practices

[exotic hull]

What's...that💀

[lyric mountain]

said below

[wheat mesa]

Nobody would dare use using namespace std; at a top level declaration like they show in college

[exotic hull]

Difference?

[radiant kraken]

uhm actually ```cpp
class Employee {
public:
std::string name;
int age;
}

[lyric mountain]

GUI

[radiant kraken]

its always that employee struct lol

[lyric mountain]

ops

CLI

[wheat mesa]

CLIs are probably where you should start

[radiant kraken]

^

[lyric mountain]

yes, they're easier

[wheat mesa]

GUIs are a lot to digest in other languages

[exotic hull]

Who would like to get output like that💀

[wheat mesa]

Making a GUI in HTML/CSS and the backend processing logic in JavaScript is much easier than using something like Java Swing

(Probably because swing is older than most of us here)

[lyric mountain]

I do, but doesn't matter for now, you dont need to sell your app

[neon leaf]

me

[exotic hull]

Yeah just for personal use

[wheat mesa]

Not even for personal use

For personal learning

[exotic hull]

Just for testing bruv😭😭😭

[wheat mesa]

Most apps you create in the beginning of learning a language you probably won’t end up running ever again after you finish with them

[lyric mountain]

oh also, I forgot one VERY important step

git

[wheat mesa]

But it’s about what you learned in the process

Yes please learn git early on. I regret not learning it and I still struggle with it to this day

[exotic hull]

You told me what should i do but from where should i learn😭

[exotic hull]

What's git

[radiant kraken]

https://git-scm.com/

[wheat mesa]

A version control system, it’s for tracking different versions of your code

[radiant kraken]

i still dont know what it does lmao

[lyric mountain]

so your project will involve 4 knowledge areas:
1 - versioning
2 - user input
3 - data visualization
4 - database

[radiant kraken]

i still think it as a github cli thingy

[wheat mesa]

GitHub and git aren’t the same thing

[exotic hull]

Yeah

[radiant kraken]

yeah i know

github has its own cli called gh

[lyric mountain]

go by that sequence, should be easy enough

[wheat mesa]

Git existed before GitHub as a local VCS

[exotic hull]

Should i learn from documentation?

[wheat mesa]

Github basically shares that git repo on the internet so others can use it

It’s a fancier version of google drive pretty much

[lyric mountain]

yes, but dont read it like a book

think about it as a cookbook

[radiant kraken]

the only commands i know are git pull, git clone, git add, git commit, and git push

[real rose]

git >>>

[wheat mesa]

git checkout -b branch goes hard

[lyric mountain]

for versioning, you only need to know 5 commands for now:
git init
git add .
git commit -m "Your message"
git push
git pull

[radiant kraken]

or git commit -am

[wheat mesa]

(And maybe setting up remotes and such to GitHub)

[radiant kraken]

and git clone too

[exotic hull]

Where should i execute it

[radiant kraken]

your command line

[lyric mountain]

first of all install git

https://git-scm.com/downloads

[exotic hull]

Link to java documentation

[wheat mesa]

Also be careful not to run this in the root dir of your computer

[lyric mountain]

then make a folder somewhere easy to find (this will be where your project will be)

[wheat mesa]

Because it’ll start tracking all of your files under git and it sucks lmao

[lyric mountain]

you dont need a site, you'll have it right on your hands

[exotic hull]

In vscode

[lyric mountain]

but we'll get to this part, setup git for now

[exotic hull]

Should i go next next on it

[lyric mountain]

no no, this will make you tire and give up

https://www.jetbrains.com/idea/download/?section=windows

if you're going java then go with a proper ide

[exotic hull]

Oh yeah i remember I've it already

[lyric mountain]

ok good, did you download and install git?

[exotic hull]

I'm downloading a 2024 version I've 2022 version

[lyric mountain]

intellij or git?

[exotic hull]

Intellij

[lyric mountain]

it has a self-update button

u dont need to download it again

[exotic hull]

Where

[exotic hull]

Where tf is that setting thing

[lyric mountain]

when you launch it should also show a popup saying there's a new version available

[lyric mountain]

hmm, idk how different edu version is from community edition