NO TO DECK STEALING FEATURE

[green mortar]

That's as far as it goes

But if you want to keep your crazy over the top shenanigans you go for it

Just don't be surprised when people don't respect it

[ruby panther]

We might not always agree with 1939s decisions, but it is important to maintain a friendly conversational tone.
Accusing and blaming each other doesn't get us anywhere. Voice your concerns, but don't be insulting with it.

[foggy comet]

So feature good for casual and classic, bad for ranked, solved

Why would you even ever want to copy anyones deck? No one is running Zaza so you just get b tier decks eitherway

[green mortar]

I've been pretty clear that while I don't have strong feelings on it, the community clearly does and that I want whats best for the community

[sharp niche]

And at least 1 tailor, bc the new announcement said that a new card were literally tailored

[waxen mural]

Real

[foggy comet]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-gif-26248930

[foggy comet]

He gets it

[waxen mural]

Tired to pretend I don't

[ruby panther]

Should really just nuke this thread, ngl

[sharp niche]

nah

[foggy comet]

How about you nuke some bitches

Gottem

[sharp niche]

It still has some meat left in it.

[waxen mural]

Gottem

[foggy comet]

Time to turn this threat into a Zaza appreciation cult

[sharp niche]

And it's not that toxic. It just shows people r salty.

And pretty unhappy about the change to come.

[ruby panther]

nah?
it's just about pushing the message count

[ruby panther]

say no mo fam

[foggy comet]

Smh

[sharp niche]

@ruby panther I'm still waiting on answers to stuff like this I've added in the morning.

[foggy comet]

I see how it is, Sunny is a Zaza hater

Dissapointed

[ruby panther]

okay okay, you convinced me

[waxen mural]

"morning" "2pm" he is just like me fr

[foggy comet]

Fr

[ruby panther]

yah, can we just move the whole Zaza talk to #kards-chat pls?

[foggy comet]

He's also a goblin

Censorship

[errant snow]

You did it. The thread is over 1000 replies. 🫡

[humble totem]

https://tenor.com/view/eric-andre-controversial-yet-so-brave-controversial-brave-gif-12046682

[foggy comet]

Bc the power of Zaza compells me

[humble totem]

The Za in u has made u stronger

U brave punk ass genius

[foggy comet]

Go and spread the word 🫡

[ruby panther]

I know how much you adore that card, but can we just stay on topic please? (:

[errant snow]

The topic has been exhausted at least 700 replies ago, now it's just memes, repetition and general off topic

[foggy comet]

Spread the word of Zaza

@waxen mural Thx for the reminder

[waxen mural]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-stare-staring-cat-gif-25643529

[foggy comet]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-kiss-cock-mrekk-vaxei-whitefcat-gif-20435871

[snow goblet]

lol this has been #2610808867437936662

[pine owl]

damn in the span of less than 1 day this has become the most controversial thread out there

[hexed flame]

Honestly, I hope they do implement this change so that the toxic elements of the kards community leaves

[pastel current]

Yeah when there's kitten gifs in a thread you know it's gotten heated

[pine owl]

lmfao, it is you who failed to read the room tho

i agree with this feature but players brought up a very important concern

[sharp niche]

I don't think it would achieve that well. Like, u might stay The one who's whole contribution to this conversation was to shittalk people who think this is an issue based on loose assumtions of what they might be saying.

[hexed flame]

I apologize for entering the room completely unaware of how much narcissism in in the air.

[hexed flame]

The one? Dude, the other side was doing just what you described the moment I entered chat

Projection much

And look at what you're doing right now. Shittalking innit

[pine owl]

Have you read what players have said about not being able to withhold information over their deck composition, especially in competitive settings? Have you actually read the thread beforehand?

[hexed flame]

Yes I read it all. My conclusions have remain unchanged, especially when I compare it to the atmosphere in other competitive games

[ruby panther]

There's nothing wrong with having an opinion and voicing your concerns, but I'd like to remind all active chatters in this thread to speak politely.
Attacking / provoking each other only creates divide, something we don't need.

[mighty gorge]

If anything it enhances toxic elements because sweatlords can't help but abuse the system to create unfair ladder games where one person has access to the opponents decklist while the other doesnt

[pine owl]

I have seen no narcissism in this thread

these are legitimate complaints, and must be respected

opt-in should be a thing

i can't understand competitive players needs because i'm not one, but i don't dismiss their criticism as narcissism

[hexed flame]

I thought being able to opt out was a suggestion made by players, not an intended feature. I've been arguing against the "compromise" that players can opt out of deck sharing from the start

For the same reasons you just mentioned

[mighty gorge]

No, the reality is that competitive players are already set on creating shared spreadsheets where people put in everyone's decks they queue against

So people who are sweating hard enough will most likely create several one sided open decklist matchups vs people who dont bother with this

[hexed flame]

The narcissism lies in the fact that they throw a hissy fit over allowing the game to become more competitive. When no decks are a secret. that by definition creates a more competitive environment. Howwever, when people allow themselves to live in the delusion that their deck is super special and will let them become god incarnate, and people "stealing" their deck takes away such power, that's narcissistic. narcissism is about control, and someone threatening their ability to control is a threat to the narcissist

[hexed flame]

That is a good point. Deck sharing will take away the advantage sweatlords have 😂

[mighty gorge]

No, it enables the advantage

[hexed flame]

Like, I've already been thinking of creating decks whose whole purpose is to drag out the game, so I can gather intel on a deck, just to spite these players

[hexed flame]

What do you mean?

[green mortar]

no one is claiming that their deck is super special and will let them become god incarnate but simply the fact that when prepping for a tournament we try to keep our decks private, and if we're testing on ladder and we see someone we know we might surrender to keep that information private, with an opt out feature that problem goes away

right now with the feature, if i match vs someone i know and insta surrender

they still get all the deck info

this is only really relevant for tournament prepping

[hexed flame]

Maybe then make opting out an option only if you surrender from the start

[fluid bloom]

No insta surrender sounds good

[mighty gorge]

Let's say 10 players put in every person's deck they play against into a shared spreadsheet over multiple hour long laddering sessions. One of the players queues into one of the players in the spreadsheet and then the player with access to the spreadsheet knows the exact list the other player is running, having a significant advantage

[hexed flame]

Opting out in general would game theory wise mean that everyone will opt out because it is more advantageous, even if only marignally so, and make the card sharing feature useless

However, if you want tournament players to have their opt out, let them opt out if they surrender from the start. That way, opt out is a niche feature that is only advantageous to use in the niche case presented

[mighty gorge]

"Not playing ladder sounds good"

[fluid bloom]

Yep

[mighty gorge]

Alright at this point you've just given up even pretending to actually argue a point?

[green mortar]

take in mind, far more of the community than just the tournament players are upset by the feature, i just only really care about the change from the perspective of a tournament player. Other than that i only care about the rest of the community getting whats best

[fluid bloom]

My point has been made

[mighty gorge]

In all of this you've never pretended a single argument outside of "yep they'll do it anyway 🤪 "

[hexed flame]

To be fair, some people in chat were talking very closely to how I described. The whole tournament play thing was presented way later in my involvment in the conversation

[violet sky]

What if I told you I paid petriachor and firebird to go against the grain because we needed to bump up the reply count

[mighty gorge]

But if your place here wants to be "i'm the grumpy contrarian who doesn't contribute anything worth discussing" then go ahead

I have no issues with people arguing against my opinion but all you're doing is posting inflammatory comments

[green mortar]

there are mixed reactions yes, but a lot of people are very unhappy with the change. Tournament play was as aspect from the start

the post was made by a tournament player

[hexed flame]

Imma sue you for the money you owe me and never paid

[hexed flame]

My place here is to fight against the toxic environment that has come out in this discussion

[mighty gorge]

I didn't mean you, you actually argue your point

[fluid bloom]

I don't have the patience to repeat myself

[mighty gorge]

At this point I think you just lack the capacity to actually produce an argument but so be it

[violet sky]

Alright looks like I need to tag in for petriachor

[hexed flame]

Ffs, some players were treating their decks like intellectual property and were citing the DMCA, which, no surprise here, I'm opposed to DMCA

[novel notch]

Remember to keep this civil. Just before this starts to derail

[mighty gorge]

It's okay im firmly holding my stress ball rn

[fluid bloom]

I'm gonna let intra misrepresent my ideas and go watch maodi's stream

[violet sky]

So to argue for the benefits of the feature, it only negatively affects a small portion of the community and will help with new player retention because having exact decklists gives them something tangible to work towards

[hexed flame]

I take comfort in my impression that the majority of the people who bother to join and expecially participate in the kards discord server take the game way too seriously

[waxen mural]

This tbh

[violet sky]

🫡

[green mortar]

okay

[hexed flame]

Even if additional new player retention is small, that small amount of retention will pile up, and snowball into helping the game grow much faster in the long run

[green geode]

No

I am going to zzz you every turn

[mighty gorge]

What does your client respond to the argument that it will lead to frustration for newer players moreso than a good experience if they work towards something that will turn out to be close to useless/very?

[hexed flame]

Sucks for you, I always cut communcation from the start

[mighty gorge]

Wait I know what he says

"Whatever."

I took over your job

[green geode]

I don't see how copy decklist remove the toxic part

[pine owl]

reading so much into it that you compare it to narcissist abuse
ngmi

[violet sky]

Uh… well new players will get frustrated anyways

[maiden narwhal]

Takao, you are the new player, tell them how

[hexed flame]

My argument from the start has been that in literally every competitive gaming community I have been in, people really don't mind sharing their tactics, and equipment lists, and even more often than not, sit down at the end of every game to have an AAR. It's an evironment of learning, for new and old players alike. In kards though, I've noticed a super toxic mindset, where players have shown their inability to want fair competition in the first place, and want to monopolize something that can't be in the first place

[violet sky]

He’s new? I’ve seen him around for a while now

[hexed flame]

Not abuse persay, but the mindset is strikingly similar, if not identical

[maiden narwhal]

No, he played this game about one year only

[waxen mural]

Dont psychatrize people you disagree with

[maiden narwhal]

And his collection is so poor

[green geode]

Enable copy decklist don't improve the fairness. lol

At least nobody should able to copy the decklist so effortlessly

[mighty gorge]

That's very far from the truth and you'd know if you'd been around for longer. Everyone that asks is helped by a lot of people, people give up their decklists if asked in 99% of cases and so on

[fluid bloom]

Why

[green mortar]

no offense but i dont think you have much knowledge of comp kards, it has a rich culture and is very much one that tries to share and encourage new players to learn

[mighty gorge]

Why not

[hexed flame]

I wasn't even mentioning "fairness". By defintion, enabling copy decklist makes the game more competitive

[green geode]

This is the problem

[waxen mural]

It definitly make it more streamlined too

[hexed flame]

So why do we have to listen to some 1% and let them dictate the game, if that's the case?

[green geode]

everyone see JKing, copy his deck

[waxen mural]

Less room to play different stuff if the new meta thing spread quicker

[green geode]

and play it

Everyone using the optimized deck from the best players.

[green mortar]

literally no one is saying that

[green geode]

I don't think running onto mirror match hundred times would be fun

[mighty gorge]

The same people that are very helpful and share decklists are generally against this feature because it hurts them in their competitive experience, not in playing vs people on ladder

[hexed flame]

You dont speak for everybody

[green geode]

Newer than you thought

probably 14-15 month

[hexed flame]

There are ways to make the game less meta heavy, but thats a question for the devs. Not allowing deck sharing wont make it any less meta heavy

[fluid bloom]

Everyone should be able to gopy decklists effortlessly because it's good for the game

[waxen mural]

I mean if you look at this post rating people seems to be mostly against the feature

[mighty gorge]

Why is it?

[violet sky]

Ladies and gentlmen, it is my pleasure to inform you that we have surpassed "NERF MONTY"'s reply record.

[mighty gorge]

"its good because its good" is not an argument

[green mortar]

let me rephrase, the majority of the comp community doesnt think their opinions are above others just because theyre comp, but theyre still free to express and share their concerns

[scarlet hound]

how's it good for the game. I missed your points on this.

[green geode]

Even more mirror match? oh no

[hexed flame]

People who bother to join the server, and who bother to participate in it, the majority of which, are a minority that takes the game way too seriously

[fluid bloom]

It helps newer players, they will stay in the game and that's good

[mighty gorge]

How will copying decklists make new players stay in the game?

[green geode]

If they want to find the better deck, they are meant to pay more effort for that

joining a community, or seek for video from competitive or experience players

[hexed flame]

Because they'll know what to grind for, instead of grinding something that turns out to be useless, then they ragequit

[fluid bloom]

They won't feel like deckbuilding is impossible to do. Just copy a deck, change a few cards and go from there

[mighty gorge]

Nice you can actually argue a point see

[fluid bloom]

You seem surprised

[green mortar]

that can happen with this feature, they can get high rolled by a random deck and think its good, craft it and then it sucks

this doesnt let you know what decks are good, just what decks you lost to

[green geode]

For the newcomer, they probably just copying another newcomer ||defective|| deck and keep losing

[fluid bloom]

Then they'll copy a different deck until they find a good one

[maiden narwhal]

Hi, I think copy a deck or change few cards is not a good study way for new players, it skip too many deck building process.

[green geode]

the answer is it won't

[mighty gorge]

With the rarity of wildcards you get starting up, this is very wasteful and can create big frustration once you found out you built towards a bad deck

[fluid bloom]

I think deck tinkering is very valuable to learn

Skill issue : just be better at what deck you choose to build

[green geode]

Slap all the wildcard on the component of smokescreen deck

[fluid bloom]

Adds community engagement : "hey i lost to this, should i build it ? What can I replace"

[hexed flame]

Perhaps, but the other thing to take into account, is that anyone that feels threatened by this feature needs to know that anyone that blindly copies decks wont start magically winning, because one also needs to understand the purpose and function of all the cards, and the decks need to match the mindset of the player too. Despite having access to public decks, and my gf who's been in the game for several years showing me all her decks, I never copy decks, not because I am morally opposed to it, but because of the reasons mentioned. However, being able to see all the decks out there would give people more inspiration for their decks, which is what I use other people's decks for already, and I dont see anything wrong with that

[mighty gorge]

I don't think it's reasonable to expect a new player to tell good decks apart from bad decks. I think this feature baits newer player into this a lot more than is the case now

[maiden narwhal]

And it just make them more lazy because maybe after copy a fine deck make them got some more win, but they learn from it not much or close to 0.

[green geode]

Probably like this

oh, I lose to this deck.

Let me copy it

[hexed flame]

By the time a new player is able to build a deck they have copied, they would have gotten enough experience to have a better idea of what decks are good or not

Copying decks wont magically unlock cards. They still have to play the game to grind the decks, making them more experienced

[green geode]

oh no. I still need 19 special and 6 elite card to play this

[green mortar]

i dont disagree but to write off anyone that feels their deck is personal as narcissistic and is trying to gatekeep is a pretty toxic approach imo

[hexed flame]

Exactly! 😂

[hexed flame]

The arguments presented by these "personal" aproach people have been all narcy

And how tf is it gatekeeping?

[green geode]

Crafted all the card for the deck, and proceed to lose to other

[green mortar]

i dont agree but to each their own i guess

[mighty gorge]

For me the issue with the new player argument is that Wildcards, especially specials and elites are very rare at the beginning of a players journey. Being baited into those being spent on bad cards is something that can throw someone back so far from having their first good deck

[green mortar]

implying that the reason people dont want others to get their decks is they dont want other people to learn and improve is implying that theyre trying to gatekeep

[hexed flame]

These "personal" decks get "ruined" by game changes anyways, lol. How about they complain about the game changing in the first place?

[green mortar]

they do

and thats not what they mean when they say personal

[hexed flame]

Ive never heard of that word used that way, but whatever, english isnt my native language

[green mortar]

🤷‍♂️

i think we'll just have to agree to disagree on some of this

[waxen mural]

Thats pretty much what gatekeep is tbh

[hexed flame]

Then I have lost any respect for the opinion of said players

[green mortar]

okay

[humble totem]

https://tenor.com/view/swords-flynn-rider-rapunzel-cornered-gif-8743512

[waxen mural]

https://tenor.com/view/pippa-pipkin-pippa-pippa-pipkin-pippa-live-reaction-livereaction-gif-17828051921848642273

[humble totem]

Me when I say deck stealing is ok in a deal steal bad thread

[hexed flame]

What does your name mean?

[humble totem]

Pink glue

[mighty gorge]

Same thing can and is happening now tbf

[pine owl]

bismillah, that is haram!

[hexed flame]

Sorry, but when I see such a lowlife argument, I cant help but point out the issues with it

[humble totem]

I usually go by Pinkeyeglue, but I changed it temporarily

[storm burrow]

MUH 1 KERD CHANGE
also did this clearly pointless thread pass "nerf monty" reply count

[hexed flame]

Anyone that seeks to guard information like it's personal property has no respect from me

[mighty gorge]

I think the community engagement effect is negative because you have no incentive to chat people up about their decks anymore

[hexed flame]

Unless that information is truly personal private information, which decks you make in a game, isnt

[green geode]

lol

[humble totem]

No need, we all have different options and see what others say lol

[green geode]

Let the information spread too quick is not a good phenomenon

[humble totem]

https://tenor.com/view/haram-heisenberg-gif-20680378

[hexed flame]

Do you really think that anyone that is given information wont try to reach out to the community to try and understand the information?

[green geode]

Hey, your deck are now mine

[hexed flame]

It's common sense, that just because you have info on a deck, doesnt mean you know how to use it, or why you lost to it in the first place

[green geode]

I invented Siberian OTK.

[hexed flame]

Or why it's good in the first place

[mighty gorge]

I think so. I've made a lot of friends asking people for lists. I'm good enough to where I don't have to ask someone how the deck works

[hexed flame]

I doubt anyone would hyperfocus on one specific deck anyways, but rather looks at trends in the decks they see

[mighty gorge]

[novel notch]

It is also expected to be nice with people even when disagreeing. Calling another opinions lowlife and other things is something that is not adding to a discussion beyond upsetting others. Please try to avoid any name calling

[green geode]

oh no. I am that kind of person

[hexed flame]

It's not a question of being good enough. My gf who has 7 times the hours I do, and has been playing for years, doesn't understand how my decks work, not because she's worse at the game than me, but because she's not in my headspace, and such a phonemenon is universal

[green geode]

I try to renew my Tony OTK list in every expansion

[mighty gorge]

Respectfully that is a skill issue

[mighty gorge]

It's true I've been after his tony otk list for months

[pine owl]

The thread has derailed... the level of discussion has fallen... millions must disagree... it's over

[hexed flame]

Skill issue on who's end?

[humble totem]

Mf trying to get the secret formula

[mighty gorge]

Not being able to understand the idea of a deck from looking at it long enough

[humble totem]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-krabby-patty-formula-ravioli-gif-4943915

[storm burrow]

Light it all on fire it's the only solution

[hexed flame]

It's not a matter of looking at a deck long enough, you also need to understand a player's mindset. Not everyone aproaches any game with the same mindset, so in order to understand a deck, you need to understand the player behind it

[maiden narwhal]

Not that ideal, I tell you a kards player story, there is a player call Head, he played this game 10 months and got 2nd in WC.
And he doesn't copy any big names exact full deck to play, he never interest to copy big name deck directly, he know very clear it is useless for a new player to study, he played a tank call type 97 shinhoto in his jaggro deck and he lost his first occ top 8 to Betro in July. And then the entire world, include Chinese language users and western players ask same one question, why bring shinhoto not Mito regiment in jaggro, and that meta and all jaggro players all bring Mito regiment. I think old players all understand what was happening about Jaggro deck structure building in that time period, and then in 2022 WC NOV-DEC, Head+Jking+Betro run Jaggro deck that have type 97 shinhoto x3(Betro and Jking bring Jaggro deck in WC Top 4, Head did not, but Head played Jaggro in top 32- top 6 stage).

I think this player story sounds very clear about as a new player, what is the ture way to learn to grow the playing skill and deck building skill. That's it, hope you can understand.❤️

[hexed flame]

Sorry, I've just been namecalled last night, and had other abusive shit thrown at me so many times, I couldnt help it

[mighty gorge]

Sorry but that is very abstract and does not translate to reality imo. There is 39 cards, players who are good enough know everything these cards do and how they can synergize.

[novel notch]

If that was happening on this discord let me know. We in general don’t tolerate that behavior and will deal with people if they were doing it here

[mighty gorge]

A deck can have convoluted and bad synergies but even those will be picked out

[static halo]

No, the solution is closing the thread because 1939 games team already read feedbacks of various players and continuing to comment only fuels the chaos.

[storm burrow]

wdym closing the thread it's the worst thing to happen

[hexed flame]

Circular reasoning

[static halo]

Set the thread to read mode only.

[mighty gorge]

As opposed to not reasoning at all? 'Having to understand a players mindset' to understand a deck is not a real thing.

[storm burrow]

I dare ye to understand my alcohol infused mindset

[hexed flame]

See? Back to personal attacks @novel notch sigh

[pine owl]

bruh

[mighty gorge]

That's not a personal attack, it's commenting on your argument

[hexed flame]

Honestly, would be funny to see an alcohol infused mindset beat sweatlords

[mighty gorge]

The great thing is we have both combined in @sharp niche

[hexed flame]

Telling someone they're not reasoning at all is a personal attack ffs

[mighty gorge]

It's saying I fail to see the substance in what you said. You have to understand the alignment of my chakras to understand my deck goes hard but does not say anything

But its fine I'll drop it

I think our viewpoints are too opposed here

[hexed flame]

Then why didnt you say so from the start, intead of going straight to personal attacks, and now you're back to hyperbolizing

Saying that you have a different oppinion doesnt say any more than me saying my opinion

[mighty gorge]

It agree, it doesn't

[hexed flame]

Yet it is me that is "not reasoning at all"

[mighty gorge]

Okay let me rephrase because English is also not my first language

Can you please explain to me in how far you need to understand a player's mindset in order to understand what a deck of 39 cards can possibly do?

My argument is that a player that has a certain level of proficiency will be able to pick out all potential strategies a 39 card deck can act out

[hexed flame]

But you yourself mentioned synergy between the cards. Imagine the amount of synergies that are mathematically possible, and all of a sudden, the amount of things you need to consider grow exponentially. Synergy has a multiplicative effect, not an additive one, and surely nobody could understand everything there is about any given deck

[storm burrow]

[waxen mural]

there iso nly so much you need to know to see what a jaggro can do tbh

[cobalt glade]

this thread has gone off the deep-end

[mighty gorge]

And i love it

[storm burrow]

best thread rn lmao

[cobalt glade]

well said

[storm burrow]

even if it was pointless from the start and got completely derailed anyway

[maiden narwhal]

It kills me, too many words in English😩

[hexed flame]

Abolish english

[scarlet hound]

This feature destroys closed decklist events

[hexed flame]

Make that a thread

[pine owl]

we must not forget to further the main goal which is getting an opt-in function

[cobalt glade]

damn, how will they do Opens now? Oh wait....

[storm burrow]

nah let's also ask devs to make a fully functioning deck tracker

[hexed flame]

Players involved in closed decklist events surrender when they see someone they know in a ladder anyways. Let them opt out only if they surrender from the start. That way, the niche is satisfied, without making opting out universally done merely because it gives a slight advantage and therefore, makes card sharing obsolete from day one

[hexed flame]

Yo that would be based

[mighty gorge]

Hello!! OHxCORNGUY

You might have misunderstood the feature. Decklists will not be seen at the start of the game, only after the game has ended.

Hope this helps

[scarlet hound]

LOL that doesn't help at all

[violet sky]

Baron I thought you got fired

[scarlet hound]

that doesn't help close decklist events at all

[green geode]

So helpful

[mighty gorge]

I'm sorry you feel this way. We will be closely monitoring the situation in any case

[green geode]

I am feeling lucky now

[storm burrow]

just so random drunk guy would't waste lots of paper writing what was played

[hexed flame]

Yes it does, lol, explain how it doesnt?

[cobalt glade]

I think you misunderstood the point. In closed decklists tournaments you can bring decks that your opponent has not seen before. If they know the full list after game 1 of the series it defeats the purpose

[hexed flame]

Im so tempted to make decks that draw out a game, just to get intel on decks, then publish them from the players thatll seeth the most from such an event happening

[storm burrow]

||who needs closed decklist things anyway besides maybe 40 or so people who went full comp ||

[cobalt glade]

Tournament series are several games long and you might want to bring the same deck multiple times, especially if the opponent has not seen some key cards in the first game

[scarlet hound]

true but someone could always just surrender to avoid that

[hexed flame]

But I just said, opt out if you surrender from the start of a ladder game, which is what these players do already anyways

[cobalt glade]

https://tenor.com/view/you-dumbass-missed-point-stupid-gif-5785598

[hexed flame]

Sucks for them, imma just climb the ladder, because thats the only reason I play ranked

[cobalt glade]

I am talking about tournament games. Not ladder games. You are not going to surrender a tournament game

[pine owl]

me

[hexed flame]

Make tournament games a seperate game mode then

Whats the problem?

[scarlet hound]

A separate game mode that doesn't have the feature?

[hexed flame]

Yes

[scarlet hound]

nice

[hexed flame]

There are ways around this issue for tournament players specifically, without abolishing deck sharing entirely

Why let tournaments dictate the whole game for non-tournament players?

[scarlet hound]

Why not?

jk

[cobalt glade]

asking for a feature that let's players decide what they want to do with the default being on is not tournament players dictating the game

anyone who would opt out is against this feature without an opt-out option

[hexed flame]

My gods and all my ancestors, do yall not understand game theory? If the option to opt out exists in all games, everyone will do it, because it gives an advantage, even if a slight marginal one, which will make deck sharing obsolete on day one

[storm burrow]

muh 1 kerd change strikes again

guys how do I keep my sides intact

[hexed flame]

Exactly 😂

[storm burrow]

I'm fucking dying here

[green mortar]

its true jking does not understand game theory

[storm burrow]

[green mortar]

smh have u even played games before jking

go win worlds with out a zero bug

[hexed flame]

If the opt out feature exists, why tf would anyone not opt out?

[storm burrow]

probably some medieval cards given he's jking and not say jpresident

[green geode]

Other can also opt out of sharing deck too

[hexed flame]

Exactly my point

[cobalt glade]

if every player was playing the game exclusively for competitive advantage than yes. But the vast majority of players do not care about getting a 0.1% advantage

you can't just say "game theory" as if this is happening in a vaccuum where winning is the only goal

[hexed flame]

Winning kinda is the goal, even for non-comp players

Opting out is something that takes zero effort, and even if it gives no competitive advantage, why would anyone opt in if the other player can opt out?

[mighty gorge]

That's not entirely true. I play the game to have a fun fight with my opponent and I would gladly share my decklist even with an opt out feature

And I can't be the only one

[green geode]

They can make the opt out mechanism into

You also can't copy deck from other

[hexed flame]

I would opt out all the time even though I would share my deck lists with other players, simply because, why opt in, when the other player can opt out? I dont see the human behind the screen in games. In a game, it is a cold, calculated decision, as opposed to my interactions with real people

[hexed flame]

That would be fair, tbh

[mighty gorge]

I don't understand why you would as it does not actually give you an advantage as a non competitive player

[hexed flame]

At that point, there would be an incentive to opt in

[hexed flame]

Realistically, no, but if there is even a 0,0000% edge, and/or it merely feels like it gives a player an edge, they'll do it

[mighty gorge]

Don't generalise, I would not

[hexed flame]

'sides, it feels unfair to share my decks if other players can and will choose not to share theirs

[mighty gorge]

There is more than 1 motivation/goal to play a game, people will act accordingly to the goal they wanna achieve

[hexed flame]

Therefore, anyone that plays rationally, will opt out

[mighty gorge]

If someone does not play to win primarily, opt out/opt in is neutral

[hexed flame]

I dont think sharing decks in an environment where everyone else treats their decks like a state secret is something anyone will sign up for

[mighty gorge]

1% of people treat their decks like a state secret

Namely 34 people who will play in a monthly tournament

[hexed flame]

But even 1% opting out will have a chain reaction

[waxen mural]

there is a world of difference between "I agree with anyone getting my list without asking me" and sharing your deck on discord when asked smh

[mighty gorge]

I disagree that it would

And neither of us can see into the future (if you do teach me)

[hexed flame]

Ive already cited the game theory reasons as to why this happens

Yall need to learn the game of trust. This isn't a metaphor, it's an actual game mathematicians use in game theory to analyse situations like this one

[violet sky]

bruh how is this thread still going full steam

[mighty gorge]

You need to deepen your understanding of game theory. You are bringing up very surface level points here

I suggest further reading

[hexed flame]

Except me citing the game of trust goes over everyone else's head, how I am the one that "needs to deepen understanding of game theory"?

[mighty gorge]

you're not but you're the only one bringing it up

[storm burrow]

just disable this thing for arbitrary top 50 or so, if this very small minority is smh so insanely overprotective of small 1 card changes

[cobalt glade]

game theory cannot be applied to explain this entire situation. That is not how it works

[waxen mural]

the probability that we learn baron real job is statistician is low

but never zero

[mighty gorge]

Almost

[waxen mural]

👀

[violet sky]

high school math teacher?

[hexed flame]

But it can be, because the game of trust has been shown to affect human behavior, even the 99% of people who dont think in terms of said game theory

[storm burrow]

but no permanent opt out button cuz it's too boring lol

[hexed flame]

Me being the only one that brings it up doesnt mean Im wrong. Quit your bandwagon nonsense

[mighty gorge]

@novel notch can we please stop the personal attacks

[maiden narwhal]

I would say the best way to learn as a new player or weak player is to watch the tournaments and watch great players game play, this is the most efficiency way to learn.
If you really want to learn as a new player or weak player, not only want win few more games, that is.

[cobalt glade]

something being shown to affect human behaviour does not mean it is a given fact that everyone will do that. Humans are not robots and there is more at play than game theory

[scarlet hound]

Game theory if you want to opt out, but narcism if you advocate for opt out

[hexed flame]

Personal attack? 🤣

[cobalt glade]

game theory is simply a principle of what the most rational decision is given that winning is the only goal

[hexed flame]

Except the game of trust does affect your average human's behavior. Analysing human behavior, even in a mathematical model, is not reducing them to robots

[woeful thicket]

you know, that halo on your head is getting dim my boy

[storm burrow]

too bad most of those so called great players bring some sort of br*t main cringe that makes them a pain to watch

[hexed flame]

Bish, do I look like a boy to you?

[cobalt glade]

"If the option to opt out exists in all games, everyone will do it"
that is not how averages work

[woeful thicket]

again.. look in the mirror and stop being a gas lighter as well

[hexed flame]

Then study the game of trust, ffs

Yall keep dismissing an actual mathematically sound model of human behavior with demagoguery

This is the level this conversation is at

[cobalt glade]

telling me to study a theory of human behaviour is not going to change the fact that that is not how human behaviour works

[hexed flame]

Except it does work that way

You pretending that it doesnt shows how ignorant you are on the topic

[mighty gorge]

Again, your view on this is way too broad and the notion that this is applicable broadly over into all contexts just shows a fundamental lack of understanding

[hexed flame]

But it is appicable broadly, and has been shown to be. Youre the one who lacks the understanding

[mighty gorge]

Then you're very unaware of current discourse on the topic

I wont do the free labour for you but I suggest to get a more founded base on this

[hexed flame]

I dont care about current discourse if it's based on demagogary and logically falalcious statements

[storm burrow]

@hexed flame can ye stop making personal attacks pls? we're supposed to be technically on the same-ish side but the way ye do business here is alienating smh

[maiden narwhal]

Then what do you need?

[cobalt glade]

If you take a rational person who's only goal is to win as much as possible, yes they should opt-out and statistically they will. The real world has thousands of other variables that are not modeled in your game of trust because life is more complicated than that

[mighty gorge]

Im not talking about kards discord im talking about scientific discourse

[woeful thicket]

When do we get rid of this troll?? Firebird is in his pj's sipping on apple juice ... sorry mods
Thank you for your support. I'm good now.
Back to the topic.

AND DAMN!! we got the new record!! Whooo
Hey, we're all brothers/sisters in here

Lets Do This (whatever that means) 😂

[storm burrow]

I need br*t main cringe to die in a fire and give way to decks that are actually interesting to watch
I guess?

[hexed flame]

Game theory isn't just about games, it's about human behavior. Most people play to win, even if playing to win doesnt translate into being sweatlords most of the time

[hexed flame]

Oh you are aware of the discorse behing the game of trust? Tell me then, what has been agreed upon the most advantageous (and purely by accident, the most common) aproach to the game of trust IRL?

[serene tide]

https://tenor.com/view/bradley-cooper-who-brought-this-guy-along-gif-10395957

[hexed flame]

The whole opt in or not is one of the simiplest decisions in the game, so simple that it can be boiled down to the game of trust, it literally is an example of the game of trust

[cobalt glade]

you have used the words "most people" and "average" but are trying to argue 100% of people will do this specific action

[hexed flame]

Why cooperate, when you get nothing out of it?

[cobalt glade]

do you not see how that is silly?

[hexed flame]

Never was

Now you're just strawmanning me

[storm burrow]

bruh this whole thread is

[serene tide]

Thread about to be locked

[woeful thicket]

yup

[hexed flame]

Based

[scarlet hound]

Other games have an opt out and not everyone uses it

[storm burrow]

fp ruining best thread smh

[hexed flame]

Name me the game

[cobalt glade]

"If the option to opt out exists in all games, everyone will do it"
"Most people play to win"
"the game of trust does affect your average human's behavior"
all of these are direct quotes
How am I strawmanning you?

[maiden narwhal]

I think you misunderstand something, the tournaments in occ each players bring different nations to play bo3. You can skip those nation match you don't interest to read, and if you understand the high level ladder game play, no big name players want to climb to top 10 by Brit for a while, at least few patches.

[woeful thicket]

We can just move this to the "Compaining Role" after @serene tide
You in?!

[scarlet hound]

Pokemon TCGO had it

[hexed flame]

By saying I was arguing that 100% of people act a certain way

That is the strawman

[serene tide]

https://tenor.com/view/wicker-man-wickerman-burning-cult-gif-9444735240156075617

[hexed flame]

The game of trust ties into evolutionary psychology. If your level of understanding of game theory was so deep like you claim it is, you would know which strategy to the game of trust is hardwired into humans, and affect our behavior even if we aren't "playing to win"

[cobalt glade]

So by interpreting you saying "everyone will do it" as meaning that everyone will do it I am strawmanning you? Checks out

[novel notch]

Alright time for this thread to come to an end.

We have reached the point that this isn't even talking about the topic and is just arguing in circles over various things. Various people are being to aggressive here and it's turning in a way that is not good or healthy. There are people here trying to have an actual discussion but overall the tone is shifting in a way that is not wanted.