#NERF MONTY

1140 messages · Page 2 of 2 (latest)

molten dune
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Do you prefer just straight aggressive games?

patent flower
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even if it does, which I personally think is wrong, it shouldn't be borderline free extra turn and it sure as hell shouldn't be all lumped into one faction that already has all the draws and stalls and heals and then some

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simply because it enables solitaire and that's a big no

molten dune
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I'd be up for evening out the factions altogether, but that would take a while. Fewer CM for Germany and less stall for Britain, but less aggressive Japan, etc.

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Which would mean more stall for literally everyone else and less aggro to balance it out

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Factions would be a bit more samey, but less frustrating

patent flower
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isn't a game being less frustrating as a result a good thing?

molten dune
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If a large group only feels that way initially and then when the game is ruined due to unforeseen consequences, liked only by a tiny group: not so much. What sounds good isn't always what works out

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Because it is also keeping a lot of other stupid crap at bay right now, so unless those are changed first let's not.

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Down the road if the meta shifts, maybe.

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Personally, I can't help but feel suspicious that part of the reason players want games to be so short is that they fundamentally don't like playing at all.

patent flower
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considering how the balance patches work in kards "unless those are changed first" approach isn't exactly reasonable

molten dune
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Outside of the sense of a Skinner box

patent flower
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if anything, there probably should be a massive balance overhaul

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all in one go

molten dune
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I'll agree with that. Although I have a feeling we'd take it in opposite directions.

patent flower
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could be KEKW

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but that's to be expected given we have different view points

molten dune
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That said, this isn't the first game I prefer to take slower than most. I usually have the speed turned down in Paradox games to savor it, as well as other RTS games with speed options. I can't exactly say my own views are in line with the typical player. I do like racing games, but because speed actually yields risk in itself in that case.

That said, pretty sure few here would agree with you that any and every form of denial is "retarded" as a concept.

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When I have played online, people want those games on like max speed all the time.

patent flower
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well, not everyone has free time or patience to make all games slower

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that being said I don't really like super fast games myself

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unless I play something like my old rush meme that kills itself as often as it does an enemy KEKW

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but I also don't like games artificially made slower

molten dune
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There are plenty of games that are good for free time. I often work 24 hour shifts at a group home because nobody else can come in, and I plan for games to go a bit long. If I am tight on time, there are plenty of classics (albeit in other genres) that are great for being short on time because you can stop whenever. But when you are playing online, just set a good amount of time aside.

FTL, Neoscavenger, any Paradox game on the Clausewitz engine, etc

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I feel its a "pick one" situation with multiplayer vs spare time

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Unless it is friends and you are doing hotseat or something

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You can't reasonably expect others to be on your time constraint, I feel that kind of impatience is impolite.

patent flower
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well I don't expect anyone to agree with my view on what's the reasonable game time should be, especially online

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but at the same time I feel like other player artificially making the game longer is being impolite to me KEKW

molten dune
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Roping is one thing (because you are literally doing nothing with the intention of creating emotional frustration). But a strategy that results in a game going long doesn't come across as impolite at all to me. I think every player is responsible for their own time use and estimation. If you get it wrong, or jumping into a game on the gamble it will be short, that's on you.

patent flower
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roping is a different can of worms which requires a different method of fixing

molten dune
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I mean, maybe keyword being "artificially"? Like, playing with your opponent and not taking a victory when there is no chance of backfire is different (though it doesn't particularly bother me, since I just surrender if I notice it)

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Playing it safe on the small chance of backfire, I won't hold that against anyone

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I just feel everyone is responsible for how they chose to use their time, not anyone else

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I'm not one to tell others what strategies they have to use

patent flower
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speaking of emotional frustration
brits, as a faction, are one of the most likely causes of it

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which is another reason why I'm usually campaigning against brits

molten dune
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Idk, the vent deck is full of complaints of every faction last I checked, save maybe US

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I seem to recall one person complaining about USSR, one Germany, one Britain. Okay to be fair idr complaints about Japan but I suppose that's where I come in KEKW

patent flower
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well frontline haters do exist KEKW

molten dune
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Cosmic complained about everyone in one post. Other than that it looks like USSR, Germany, and Brit all get plenty of hate, roughly equal (if not Germany a bit more)

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Though I have seen complaints about Jaggro in Steam, and US mostly specific cards

patent flower
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and yes, I am supporting of nerfs to stuff unhealthy for game
problem is, majority of said stuff belongs to brits, which is another reason why I usually campaign against them KEKW

molten dune
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I'd probably nerf a bunch of Britain stuff too, but I would start with monsoon rot. Then probably supply shortage. Go from there depending on impact.

patent flower
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monsoon rot I'll probably straight up delete from game

molten dune
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That works too. Either that or self hit I'd be okay with, especially since Britain like stupid amounts of defense. Probably why it doesn't, but honestly if other countries have to make hard choices Brit should too

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But, getting back to Monty, if I were to nerf it at all, I certainly wouldn't start with it. I'd work around probably half the cards in game first

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Basically if Brit wants monsoon rot, they better be sure they are okay with having no units on the board when it hits

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Or have a plan to give them livable health after

patent flower
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I'll put it this way

molten dune
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Perhaps we should, that went long

patent flower
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if a brit wants his extra turn he should actually work for it

molten dune
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I misread you as "I'll put this away"

patent flower
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not just spend 1k and call it done

molten dune
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I still don't think pin all qualifies though

patent flower
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that's where our opinions differ, I guess

molten dune
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Suppose so. Guess we shouldn't text wall everyone else too bad. Well, at least not worse than we already have

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I just won't reply to anyone for a bit. Let others have their say. Fun talk.

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Feel free though, obviously I wouldn't try to police whether you do or not

patent flower
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we can probably build a text castle out of these walls at this point KEKW

nimble wagon
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I swear, at this point, I am convinced that someone made a bet to see if they could create the longest thread in existence!

patent flower
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that being said should be enough of my thoughts there, at least for now
just noticed it's 4:20am there so I probably should catch some sleep KEKW have fun everyone

jade imp
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Thats not what the votes are saying

crude basin
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Maybe I'm wrong. But the fact that people mentioned Jking said it, I think had a pretty big impact on what was voted on.

jade imp
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true

livid portal
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I could probably list at least 10 cards that are more powerful/ and or has more game impact than monty. I cant see it being a positive change to the game without lowerering the overall power level of the game. I hope they make the right rotation choices.

molten dune
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^ this

Also, pretty sure mentioning JKing had an impact for many. Not me though, I pretty much voted for the ideas that kept pin all and 1 cost.

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Including but not only the self-pin

livid portal
molten dune
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As long as it is rotated with the right cards (including a few Japanese 1 cost 0 operation cards) I'm happy. Even not having all of the Japanese 1-0s available simultaneously would go a long way

livid portal
molten dune
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Agreed

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Germany probably just one card that epitomizes the worst of everything

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e.g. Entrapment, 0 cost blitz tank (forget the name), etc

livid portal
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I could see wolfpack and blitzkrieg being rotates

molten dune
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I could too

livid portal
molten dune
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I'm going to stop here before this becomes another long one on one conversation though KEKW

But yes

past token
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I’ll admit monty doesn’t always result in loosing a turn, but it often does.
Agro decks basically loose a turn when the frontline is pinned while full. Any other slower-ish deck looses a turn when they’re force to commit what units they have quickly. I think that’s what pisses people off the most- a locked up support line.

molten dune
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support line decks (especially arty decks) deserve it tho

past token
weary kernel
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Carpet, Strategic also

molten dune
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Those are pretty expensive though, if you can't manage before then it may be too little too late. But for sure you want stuff like that once you get to that point

frozen belfry
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What about changing the text of Monty to: "Pin all enemy units. The enemy draws a card. If three or more units are Pinned, draw a card."

jade imp
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so basically the same, but giving enemy a draw

molten dune
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Brutal with resistance

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A buff in that situation

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But, feel free to add it to the vote

frozen belfry
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Yeah, the above change would help aggro recover more from the setback. Also could cause overdraw against ramp/control decks. Alternatively, could even mix it with the change suggestion from Jking to something like "Pin all enemy units. If two or fewer units are Pinned, draw a card, else the enemy draws a card."

jade imp
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hmm i kinda like that idea actually

molten dune
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Alternatively, "pun" all enemy units: every unit's name is changed to a parody

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Amusingly enough, it would actually disrupt Val's self-synergy since they are no longer "vals"

molten dune
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Personally, I think aggro is what should be getting hit hard by Monty, it's control that I'd be comfortable with having it back off on.

frozen belfry
# molten dune Personally, I think aggro is what should be getting hit hard by Monty, it's cont...

A spin off your cost suggestion in Nerf Monty Votes, Monty could pin based off attack instead of cost; something like...pin all/enemy units with attack X or less; e.g., where X is: 5 or less, 4 or less, or 3 or less. Buffing units attack before Monty could place some units out of range of pinning. With attack instead of cost you could still hit high cost units, but a smaller subset of them than the number of low cost units that would be affected.

frozen belfry
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Similar to a cost threshold for pinning, having power as a threshold for pinning would also make the choice of whether to include Monty more meta dependent; i.e., the estimated proportion of aggro decks versus non-aggro decks.

molten dune
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Something like that might be interesting

potent barn
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I feel like a Root Out Jr. does work also

devout dragon
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i dont think Monty should only pin one unit, because when you compare the card to the other Famous Leader orders: Patton, Admiral Yamamoto, Fast Heinz, Zhukov - they all do something that "shapes" a turn. Pin one target, its comparable to naval power and desert rats...plus draw a card? It's just pretty lame.

devout dragon
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Monty was known for caution and preparedness - so drawing a card is fitting. Maybe it should be a retreat based card instead of pin to make it weaker

cobalt flicker
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Monty is also a very arrogant and politically inconsiderate general

molten dune
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I don't know that I would say "preparedness" as much as being sophisticated/convoluted (depending on how you look at it). His plans were pretty hard to prepare for.

olive creek
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1k retreat sounds OP in any form

crude basin
devout dragon
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Maybe, your units are pinned after attacking and their attacks cause targets to retreat

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But thats just specific to monty's dogma during the african stuff

jade imp
olive creek
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I would rather face current Monty than that I think

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although it does make Monty in aggro decks bad

molten dune
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Thematically Monty was convoluted, but not really prone to retreating as much as attacking with bizarre decisions after taking forever to come up with the plan.

That said, balance > theme, and I certainly don't mind the idea of retreating all units on the board.

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Funny this comes up right after I played a battle with someone that went frontline + suicide L6 for deployment. Honestly those decks have never been a problem for me, you have to be going pretty light on AoE for that to be dangerous

past token
jade imp
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this post having 1111 message contained in it and 40 upvotes suggests how much the community cares about this matter

devout dragon
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all i know is that it matters

regal night
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I preferred the old version where if you pin three units you can draw a card/

pallid widget
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Devs just mocked this suggestion xD

jade imp
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fr

solar tartan
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I think the mods are responsible!

livid portal
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Fun times

potent barn
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Reviving chat

1730294927-monty-composite.jpg
valid kiln
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The wicked witch is dead

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Well... Kinda

rose pecan
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now its a suisei

calm obsidian
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the anti won

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billion of based brit player are grieving today

potent barn
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Yet a trillion celebrates

nova juniper
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Wait I haven't read the whole thing but isn't there already a pin target unit, draw a card card? Dunno if it's already been mentioned

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!enemy contact

wild boltBOT
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Cards found: 1

enemy_contact.png
olive creek
calm obsidian
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usage clearly showed nobody want balance monty

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😔

umbral tusk
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its happened

exotic beacon
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The foreshadowing

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Well kinda you can technically only pin 3 units with new Monty so you were pretty much there

red flume
patent flower
exotic beacon
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Bros the thinker Hello