Fresh Loot

[peak berry]

no, simply the same game session

go into a room

loot container

put item in container

-> converted

immediately

[rustic estuary]

That's weird, I'll check that, thx

[magic fjord]

that is strange, I started a fresh so can't reproduce, @peak berry maybe it would be worth uploading your save? might help

[magic fjord]

I cant test sadly, I think BCoM and perhaps one of two other mods changes the landscape, so when I load the save, I'm stuck in the ground.

[devout fossil]

Console: tcl

[magic fjord]

ok

[devout fossil]

Move up out of the ground and repeat tcl

[magic fjord]

I keep forgetting about toggling colision, but I still can't seem to dupe the bug

[magic fjord]

unless mym can.

[rustic estuary]

if you updated BCOM midgame, then they may have changed the landscape, and it's normal to have a chance ending up in the ground

[magic fjord]

I just tried to load the save given, and had that issue, as I was seeing if I can repro the bug

I wonder if the bug could be reproded if I use CCC containers? I'm wondering the reason I can't repro it, is that the containers are owned

I need to find a container that isn't owned

could be a reason

still can't dupe, went to the abandoned flats house, put items in, opened the chest and no conversions. so not sure what is wrong, then the save is before the update, as I have updated the modlist since

[peak berry]

i have the first and second chance modifier at 100

but youre right, it doesnt happen everywhere

where in the code is the database of containers that have been converted already?

these 2 messages get printed every time

so the container doesnt get ticked off by that variable in the else

[rustic estuary]

Thx for that info and now understand what's happening: You're using a merchant container, and I don't tag them because their content need to be processed again when they are adding new items

When you put an item in that container, it's like if the merchant had new stuff. And as you set your first mod chance to 100, then your added items will always be converted

[peak berry]

merchant items have the respawning flag though

types.Item.isRestocking(itemStack)

if you remove the item stack to replace it with an enchanted variant you're removing that restocking flag though

and my restocking mod adds the restocked items to the merchant inventory instead

[rustic estuary]

Restocking ingredients and such are different from new sold weapons/armors/clothing, isn't it?

[peak berry]

in vanilla?

no i dont think so

anything that has a restocking flag gets immediately refilled

[rustic estuary]

Yeah but with equipment those are different item IDs

[peak berry]

i dont understand

[rustic estuary]

I'm not sure how equipment restocking works. If it's the item that has the flag, what happens if you buy it: The merchant will lose one restocking item? If you buy them all, then you won't ever get any new items with that merchant?

[peak berry]

when you buy an item with the restocking flag, it gets restocked immediately as soon as you close the vendor window

but your mod will remove the flag when it replaces the item with an enchanted variant

so what will happen is that since you repeatedly re-check the containers, at some point all of the merchants stock will be enchanted, but none of them will be restocking anymore

afaik there's no way to set the restocking flag on an item

and with the complex nested leveled lists its not easy to make your own restocking system that doesn't always spawn the same item

been there 😄

thats why the equipment restocking in my mod is kinda trash and the ingredients are completely random

[rustic estuary]

You mean that if I buy a restocking sword, then the merchant will instantaneously replace it with another item?

[peak berry]

with the same item yes

even if it came from a leveled list

[rustic estuary]

I've never experienced that. I'll have to test to improve or fix how I handle those items.

[peak berry]

probably a database to keep track of the items that you have removed the restocking flag of

basically something similar to my restocking mod

[rustic estuary]

In my experience, merchants sometimes change their stuff, even if I don't buy anything

[peak berry]

i can add a setting to disable the functionality for equipment and ammo, so it doesnt interfer with what you're cooking up

[peak berry]

thats impossible i think

unless you have https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/54952 installed

maybe different savegames where you saw that?

[rustic estuary]

Ok thx I'll check your mod, which I didn't install.
The next Fresh Loot version is almost ready, I have to fix that before I release.
It will be a breaking release, requiring a new game

[peak berry]

restocking is kinda complicated i think, maybe dont rush it

my mod uses a dual database

one in the savegame

and as a backup a global db, and it always uses the one that has the most amount of items

not sure why i even have the savegame one

except for timers

maybe because of the leveled lists

i think the global db is only for ingredients

because when you uninstall the mod, save, and install it again, the restocking flags will be gone and the save won't have a db anymore

[devout fossil]

I have had a good experience with Restocking mod, although I will always be 🫢 at the effort that was required to make a proper solution.

[magic fjord]

well, I will hold off from doing a new game playhtough until then, just will continue to test and have a bit of fun in the meantime, so this breaking save event should only be a one off? as future versions should then be able to carry on where you lef off?

[rustic estuary]

Yeah just once as I change many things

[rustic estuary]

I think restocking is a different mechanism. Equipment comes from levelled lists that are occasionally refreshed, as I understand.
That will ease my processing. And I'll exclude restocking equipment, like arrows

[magic fjord]

do you have an eta on release? as for your other changes, sounds interesting, must be a big update

[rustic estuary]

I'd say one to three days

[magic fjord]

ok I can wait for it

[rustic estuary]

You can check the almost final changelog here:
https://gitlab.com/modding-openmw/fresh-loot/-/blob/main/CHANGELOG.md?ref_type=heads

[magic fjord]

I got my mostlist with tweaks done, dont think I need to add anything extra, so just fresh loot to download, then a fresh playthrough

nice

[magic fjord]

Just in case, anyone is interested, my customised extras

andoned flat
portable autosorter
CJ's Uniquely Enhanced Birthsigns
customSpellBindings
Dagoth Ur Voice Addon - ElevenAI Version
dungeon detail
fastequip
fortify_health
FreshLoot
HBFS
Imperial Magicka Regeneration
Kezymas Voices of Vvardenfell
MainQuestOverhaul - with BCoM patch
pay taxes

cant think what else to add, as that pretty much is my lot, and don't want to add more in case of conflicts

[burnt cape]

Try Mercy, Fair Care, Take Cover and Better Merchant Skill. 3 out of 4 are mym's mods . All compatible

[magic fjord]

BMSO is already in TO, I will download the others

thanks

You last downloaded a file from this mod on 27 Apr 2025

downloaded, thanks again

all added, now set

[peak berry]

better bars, floating healthbars, quickloot, restocking

[magic fjord]

I will check then out

[rustic estuary]

@pwn @magic fjord v2.0 is almost ready, would you be ok to test it a bit before the release?
on a new game, test mode allowed

[magic fjord]

sure

[rustic estuary]

v 2.0

@devout fossil maybe you could also give it a try 🙂

it's finished, feature wise, now I'd like to track potential bugs, in special situations

[devout fossil]

Happy to do so a bit later, about to head outdoors for the day. 🌞

Any particular use cases you are concerned about?

[magic fjord]

moving the load order might be one,

which the new version should track, so opened chests will remain tracked, and tagged

[rustic estuary]

Playing with different types of loot:

• merchant containers
• creatures (low level skeletons should not get FL items, or few of them)
  Playing with settings, check things are updated dynamically.
  Check the console for errors.
  Check FL items fit the loot where you found them

You can set the first modifier chance to 100%, it will accelerate most of the tests

Most changes and checks are subtle though, and the logs can help if you enable them (debug level), but that's a lot of info 🙂

[magic fjord]

will do

[rustic estuary]

Yeah, I would really appreciate tests on that, but it's a bit tedious

[magic fjord]

yes, I will see what I can do

[magic fjord]

Houston we have a problem, basically I went to the fighters guild, joined the guild went to the side room where the beds and two chests are, used a lockpick to open both, but if I put anything in the chest, I can no longer open the chest

[rustic estuary]

😱 thx you've been useful quicker than I thought

I think it's an easy fix though, as soon as I access my laptop...

[magic fjord]

sure, I dont mind helping

once the fix is in, I will test then test other stuff

[rustic estuary]

I think I fixed it!

but you need a new game... sorry

[magic fjord]

np, will start over, grrrrrrrrr lol

fixed

going to reorder some mods now

seems to be ok,

[magic fjord]

so far, so good, will do another run, but I changed the order, and no issues, buy I will do a bit more testing to make sure

[rustic estuary]

Thx so much

[magic fjord]

np

[magic fjord]

using this with portable autosorter to sort stuff into chests, no issues there either

and no errors

[rustic estuary]

Fresh Loot 2.0 released!

• Breaking changes, you need a new game to play this version
• Balanced and fixed multiple modifiers, with @burnt cape's help
• New positive/negative modifiers by @burnt cape
• Ensure weakness effects are applied before other effects
• Don't convert items in containers when there is no protector around
• Reworked how wares conversions are handled, you should now be able to use a dead merchant container as a storage
• Fixed creatures not getting converted items because of wrong wealth calculations
• Updated Tamriel Data supported items to version 25.05
• Midgame changes in your load order are now supported (deep refactoring, game object ids are now properly tracked)
• Reduced saved data size in game save
• Reduced the amount of attached scripts to actors and containers

[forest perch]

Thank you, Mym

[magic fjord]

great

[burnt cape]

it's a massive update 🙂

[flat marsh]

god dammit, ive just started a new character today

[magic fjord]

have to stat over

[flat marsh]

guess so
havent made much progress either way

[burnt cape]

if it's early on then at least you won't lose too much progress

[peak berry]

was it not possible to write a migration script to the new version? like converting the old database to the new format
is gameobject.id loadorder dependant?

[rustic estuary]

The new version saves both the game objects and their IDs, while the old one only the IDs: how do I get all the objects?

[peak berry]

hmm not without entering the cell :/

or iterating over world.cells

i think that would take a while though

[rustic estuary]

Yeah, and that would not fix already broken saves

[peak berry]

so the gameobject.id is load order dependant?

because you still use that on the ticked off containers

im just wondering because i use that in my restocking mod

[rustic estuary]

True. If mods that add new objects are added or removed in the load order, mod below them will get me IDs

But if you saved the game objects, you can get the new ID from them and then fix your game state during onLoad

[peak berry]

i see, gotta work on that then

[rustic estuary]

Yes I use object IDs, because there is no other id to index my data, but I fix them if they changed

[peak berry]

would it be possible to look up the corresponding mod to the first digits of the id and save the content file as plain text?

or crop the first digits of the id and ask the gameobject what content file it's from

i think i'll go this route

[rustic estuary]

I did find such Lua functions

[peak berry]

https://openmw.readthedocs.io/en/latest/reference/lua-scripting/openmw_core.html##(GameObject).contentFile

[rustic estuary]

Ah yes, missed that one. But then, what would you do with it?

[peak berry]

concat the name of the content file with the last digits of the id

i think only the first 2 digits change

at least thats how it is in skyrim

[rustic estuary]

That has to be proven

But as content file names can be long and sometimes similar, you'd have to take a long part of it, or even all of it

Or compute a hash

[peak berry]

and generated ids start with a weird suffix like ff or so, or maybe they dont even have a content file so i'd just save them with only the id

i dont think the length of the string can be an issue in lua

[rustic estuary]

The size of the game save

[peak berry]

hmm

[rustic estuary]

I admit I'm unsure of the size of a game object serialization

@brave frost told me it was small IIRC 🙂

[brave frost]

A serialized gameobject is more-or-less just the id yea.

there's a bit more there, to make sure they don't break between saves, but that's basically it.

[rustic estuary]

But then how does OpenMW get the right object when the load order is changed?

As IDs are not preserved

[peak berry]

maybe you can just use the gameobject as an index

if it doesnt change at all

[rustic estuary]

It was my previous attempt, but the underlying key changes..

[magic fjord]

just done another quick run through, I'm not seeing any errors or problems with fresh loot, going to start a fresh char, and see how things go

[peak berry]

got an idea how you'd hash the content file name yet?

i thought maybe some kind of base-N conversion

the content file is lower case characters, so base 26. the id is hex, so base 16. all supported characters of a lua string are probably base 60+

or combined with a hashing algorithm where you convert the result to base60

[rustic estuary]

I did not try, and I don't think it's a good idea to hack the system, while we have a reliable approach that also allows you to access the full object.

[peak berry]

well you have the game object when you need it 😄

but maybe a number would be more memory sensitive than a string

[rustic estuary]

It definitely would. It's a compromise I suppose

[rustic estuary]

Fresh Loot 2.0.1 released!

• Updated items added by Wares Ultimate 2.1 from Tamriel Data 25.05

[magic fjord]

great will install

[spark kiln]

Is it now dependent on wares and latest tamriel data? Or still functional without wares and earlier version of tamriel data

[magic fjord]

it will detect them, if they aren't present, then no, not sure about wares mind, but TR data is optional

[spark kiln]

So may or may not depend on wares ultimate is the verdict?

Just want to make sure. Srry

[magic fjord]

is wares ulimate meant to show up in the loaded item list or not? as I do have that installed, but fresh loot isn't picking it up, and got the latest version of TR data I think

its probably optional

[rustic estuary]

Not dependent, it just already knows the convertible items. Otherwise Fresh Loot learns by itself

[forest perch]

Thank you for the hardwork, Mym. Greatly appreciated

[rustic estuary]

Fresh Loot v2.0.2 released!

• Fixed property modifier descriptions not updated to v2.0
• Updated Ruffin Vangarr's levelled item list (8 mods supported)

[magic fjord]

@rustic estuary just a question when you say it detects ulitmate wares, it doesn't list it in the loaded item list section, while TR data is there, and boots for beasts is there. I do have wares installed, but its not decting it, unless that is intentional?

wares ulitmate, is that what you mean? https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/52013

[rustic estuary]

Actually, FL uses Wares to detect more items, but wares doesn't provide items on its own, it just references items in other mods

[magic fjord]

oh I see, that makes sense

thanks

[rustic estuary]

Fresh Loot 2.0.3 released!

• Improved the evaluation of whether protectors see the loot or not (handle doors)
• Fixed a harmless Lua error when analysing doors while there are no doors
• Fixed crowd factor wrongly applied to containers protected by passive actors
• Fixed container's loot level sometimes above their owner's level
• Don't convert items when the container's owner level is unknown

[brave frost]

Hey mym, how exactly do fresh loot's items get defined? Could I maybe provide my own item definitions somehow and still use the script?

[rustic estuary]

Fresh Loot converts non magic, non scripted items that appear in levelled lists by either adding them enchantments or altering their base properties.
I apply modifiers to items. I have a list of modifier definitions from which I randomly pick one among those compatible with the current item

[rustic estuary]

You can add more modifiers or just locally replace modifiers with your own

The modifier definitions:
https://gitlab.com/modding-openmw/fresh-loot/-/tree/main/00 Core/scripts/fresh-loot/modifiers?ref_type=heads

[magic fjord]

I think @brave frost might have some fun there

[rustic estuary]

Oh and I forgot the last step: Once you define your modifiers, you have to generate the omwaddon with build.sh, which requires the official lua bin and bash

[magic fjord]

expect to see new modifiers soon

[forest perch]

Thank you, Mym for the update

[brave frost]

uhhhhh

Hm. These are super generic already. Wow.

I really wanna make a dedicated generator for this 😅 But looking the modifiers over i'm not convinced I actually even need any of my own

[rustic estuary]

Most of them are generic yeah.

[rustic estuary]

Perfect if FL already fits your needs

[rustic estuary]

Fresh Loot 2.0.4 released!

• Fixed 2 Lua errors when opening some containers

[magic fjord]

a dedicated generator sounds interesting. lets hope its a reality

[rustic estuary]

What do you mean?

[native wolf]

Did you upload the new version on the nexus? It still shows the old one.

[rustic estuary]

Seems like it takes time

[rustic estuary]

It's there

[brave frost]

I’ve made many such applications and sure wouldn’t mind making one again. I can’t quite untangle FL’s build system. But once I looked at the recipes for long enough I figured even if I didn’t quite understand what it was doing, it definitely seemed to be close enough that I didn’t care.

I’ll look into it at some point.

[rustic estuary]

Fresh Loot 2.1 released!

• Track NPC levels to allow converting items they own in cells where those NPC are not present
• For owned containers (by NPCs or factions), estimate the owner level on container open, rather than on cell loading, to improve the loot level estimation thanks to more gathered statistics

[rustic estuary]

Fresh Loot 2.1.1 released!

• Don't convert items in scripted containers
• Use item record ids (in addition to item ids) to ensure that learned new valid items come from levelled lists

[rustic estuary]

Thx!

[delicate nymph]

You really maintain your mods, I wish I cared as much about my hobby

[rustic estuary]

I hate bugs, and I'm a bit of a perfectionist

If I think the mod is over and there is no bug report, then I leave it as is, like with Better Merchants Skills and Take Cover

[delicate nymph]

Always enjoyed your mods, every mod you made adds something I wish the original game had

[rustic estuary]

Thx. I love gameplay 🙂

I still have a big todo list, also well fed by @burnt cape 😅

[magic fjord]

Well someone needs to keep you busy

[rustic estuary]

Yeah, like my wife and my kids 😅

[rustic estuary]

Fresh Loot 2.1.2 released!

• Fixed a few generated enchantments missing in the addon

[proud wasp]

Hey @rustic estuary, I just noticed that items that I leave in containers in my player home (https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/53305) get randomly enchanted and I'm guessing the culprit is freshloot. What can be done about this? Also I'm not sure if this is happening only in the mod above or in every player home. I'm using fresh loot 2.1.2.
The one in the picture was a normal scythe when I placed it there

[rustic estuary]

Arf... that bug is supposed to be fixed with Fresh Loot v2 and then in v2.1.1

could you please send me a game save?

[proud wasp]

Would it matter that I placed the scythe in the container before I was using 2.1.2

I started playing with 2.0 If i remember correctly

[rustic estuary]

maybe, because before 2.1.1, FL did not exclude scripted containers, which can produce that bug

[proud wasp]

here's a save just in case(but its heavily modded)

I could try looting everything from the container and putting it back, it might refresh the logic if it even works like that

[rustic estuary]

now you use v2.1.2, could you do a test:

• set "first mod chance" to 100% in the settings page
• put regular non-magic items in your container
• see if FL converts them

[proud wasp]

I'll give it a try, sec

It didn't convert it, I also exited the cell and waited 24 hours just in case. Looks like the enchanted items happened before I updated to 2.1.2

so it should be all good. If I notice any new enchanted items that weren't there before ill let you know

[rustic estuary]

thx for testing!

tracking already opened containers can be tricky

I hope now it's fully covered

[muted sage]

this mod is fun. i was wondering what's the best way to find good loot? doing dungeons?

[magic fjord]

make sure your a decent level, but yes, doing dungeons is a good way, plus killing NPCs is another if they are of a decent level

[muted sage]

cool

[rustic estuary]

loot quality mostly depends on the level of who protects it

[magic fjord]

you can pickup a lot of loot this way, and very varied as well, including constent effect items

[muted sage]

is there a way to tell what level enemies are?

[rustic estuary]

using the console yes

but the idea is: the strongest the enemy, the higher his level

[muted sage]

ok

[muted sage]

what's the best item you guys have found?

[rustic estuary]

I haven't played a real playthrough since I created that mod 😅

[magic fjord]

found some nice items, but that was in my one day modernisation playthrough, some items with constant effect, one with feather, can't remember the list.

if you got an interface mod, like show me everything, that tells you the level

https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/53996?tab=description

I think its included in all modlists now, not sure

[burnt cape]

it's not

[magic fjord]

your right, its only included in 3 modlists User Interface: Added SME - Useful Widgets - Actor Info - Health Bar - Hit Chance to Total Overhaul, Graphics Overhaul, and One Day Morrowind Modernization my misrake

[devout fossil]

You might like Floating Healthbars for this

[forest pagoda]

Wait, so Fresh Loot comes with SME?

Or does SME interface well with Fresh Loot

[rustic estuary]

It doesn't. Different mod, different authors

[forest pagoda]

I was smoking crack myb, so does SME tell you something about items you get from Fresh Loot?

[rustic estuary]

Not possible, only FL knows

[magic fjord]

only mentioned SME as it also shows enemies levels,

[peak berry]

maybe luck could increase your item chance?

[devout fossil]

FWIW, this was discussed and dismissed previously in this thread. The thought was that it would lead to degenerate gameplay.

[peak berry]

luck is a fun attribute though

[devout fossil]

I think the bogeyman was the idea of people assembling "luck suits" from FL gear to exploit any luck bonus, but in the end I completely agreed with mym about forgoing a luck bonus for loots.

[forest pagoda]

Dude, that’s the greatest thing I’ve ever heard. It fits so perfectly into the idea of Morrowind. It also would mean that you sacrifice all enchantments on your gear in order to try and get the best RPG loot, a worthwhile but weighty tradeoff. This should definitely be a setting, so that if you want to, you can play this way.

[devout fossil]

Pair it with Petr's Fast Equip and you will be in Fresh Loot exploiting heaven! Or, you could just skip all that and change the probabilities in the script options.

[rustic estuary]

We discarded the idea because of:

• the weird exploiting behaviors it could imply, as @devout fossil said
• but also because there is no realistic reason why the player stats could change actors equipment
• and finally we would get the opposite effect of luck when enemies would get stronger thanks to your luck

[forest pagoda]

1. TES is Exploits. Morrowind is Exploits, plain and simple, and some of the "exploits" and "cheese" are actually dev known and intended. There's nothing weird about exploits, they fit into the game design. 2. Remember, Luck affects ALL your actions in a small way. I see no reason why this couldn't include loot drops, especially since that's typical rpg behavior, same as enemies spawning with better and more expensive gear (ebony, glass,daedric) when you get to a higher level in every TES game since Daggerfall. 3. Getting to fight bigger bads to drop even better badder loot is what an RPG player considers luck. Enchanted equipment is fun not because you need it to fight harder and harder enemies, but because they facilitate weird specific builds and RP. The Mages in Skyrim are panned because they get a magicka bonus, spell damage bonus, and can regen magicka while casting spells, making them incredibly difficult to fight, with no upside for killing them, since you can't equip their Todd given bonuses to your character. However, taking down a tough enemy who was tough because of their gear and then getting said gear is the epitomy of good game design. You seem to have the sentiment of both wanting the game to be exploit proof and thus difficult, but then you want balance in that the enemies shouldn't be too difficult. You have two competing sentiments, and in my opinion letting either one win rather than trying to compromise between them would be the best thing.

[rustic estuary]

1. I don't agree on game exploits: IMHO any modder should help players to refrain from using exploits, because once you cheese the game becomes boring
2. Luck affect all your actions, not other's actions. If I fortify my luck I don't want my enemies around to suddenly get better equipment. Or the opposite, if they drain my luck, they don't want to see their equipment replaced by items of a lower quality. Doesn't make sense.
3. Tougher enemies already get better equipment by design. Fresh Loot uses actor's levels to define their improved items.

[forest pagoda]

1. This is only an issue for people with poor self control. You should trust that players are capable of understanding that they’ll ruin the game by rendering everything easy. But again, it wouldn’t break the game because you would need to devote significant resources to making an outfit to gain one thing.
2. You are the only one that matters in the world. You’re the prisoner, everyone else is an npc. They’re nothing more than actions to your CHIM. You may not want extreme swings in enemy item quality, but this is exactly the thing TES players would want. I think leaving the luck based loot as a setting is a good compromise.
3. Again, the best luck an Elder Scrolls gamer can have is facing off a tough enemy that has random gimmicks. Eventually fighting Daedra with hundreds of thousands of septims worth of gear gets boring. Having a potential for Diablo loot from tough enemies makes this game play loop fresh again.

I see no reason that leaving this as a toggleable setting would cause any problems, unless it’s too difficult of a task for you to mod something like this.

[rustic estuary]

I think I get your points. You seem to only consider gameplay here. That luck feature degrades the realism (roleplay) , which I see as immersion-breaking, and I know that many TES players hate immersion breaking stuff. You make the assumption that every TES player has the same gameplay-only profile but it's not true.
I'm not against adding such a feature though, because as you efficiently explained it will please many players.
I'd need to answer a couple of questions first:

• how the FL chance evolve based on the player's luck
  • 40 -> 0% chance
  • 50 -> 2, 5, 10% bonus?
  • 20 -> malus?
  • does the chance evolve linearly or in a curved shape?
  • what setting to tune the evolution?
• which items are concerned?
  • in containers
  • in inventories
  • for already equipped items
• when those items should be upgraded/downgraded?
  • dynamically for every fortification/drain/damage effects
  • only on cell loading to prevent changes during a combat
  • on player level up, if the scaling setting is enabled

[forest pagoda]

So you are absolutely right that immersion is just as important as gameplay, and I believe those two should go hand in hand. Anything, even objectively good game design should also have excellent lore backing it up, and I think TES in general is excellent at this kind of thing which is why, as you pointed out, players love the franchise. I don’t think I got this across very well, because I was actually arguing that luck as affecting loot drops as I want, I think, is VERY immersive. In general, the hero/prisoner of every TES game is the personification of luck because they’re a prophesied hero. Nerevarine and H o Kvatch having their execution stayed by literally the emperor, and the Dovakiin being ironically saved by Alduin. The latter is the best example, as it is literally a deus ex machina, which makes sense given the theme of the Elder Scrolls games is that the hero is prophesized in victory by the titular elder scrolls. But in terms of actual luck stat in game being immersive, look no further than one of the funniest and most beloved boss fights/easter eggs in the game, Gaenor of Tribunal, who has 770 luck, who is able to get a full set of Ebony gear with 100% reflect within 3 days after being a pauper. I think this is some solid evidence towards players finding luck to be immersive. But none of this matters next to the practical application of luck to the mod as you point out.

In terms of practicality, I can only really help with how luck should scale to loot drops, and to that I think you rightly state that the base luck of 40 should be our starting point at 0, but as to what the ending should be, I think that the luck suit idea is hilarious and gives a good idea of what the theoretical maximum luck benefit should top out at, as allowing players access to gear that scales infinitely to luck would actually be game breaking, literally, as an alchemy boosted player might actually crash the game with gear with that many enchants. So considering the highest enchant capacity for each armor piece and clothing, I think the you could get 340 luck. I think the scale should be exponential, until 340, where further luck is only logarithmic in providing greater gear, that way the luck gained from the Natural Growth mod or other mods could still provide a sense of forward momentum, but not become overpowered. In terms of everything else, I honestly don’t know, I leave that to your discretion as it seems it would be hard to code honestly.

[rustic estuary]

Thx for the detailed explanation.
I'd say that luck affecting containers is somehow immersive, but not really when affecting actor's equipment.
By immersive, I mean coherent regarding luck affecting others, as I explained above.
Same goes for owned containers, which is not realistic, but somehow acceptable I suppose.
I don't want commoners starting to get incredible items just because the player put his special suit.
Fortunately I already have a limit on actors' wealth: They cannot get too many or too expensive converted items.

[forest pagoda]

I like to think of it this way. The central theme of TES, more than most RPGs, is your Hero going on a classic Hero’s journey, as archetypal as Gilgamesh, Hercules, Arthur or Sigurd. You are the Dreamer, the CHIMed one. And just as each of these heroes gained their equipment from a great deed or even from the enemies they slew, it would be more immersive and fun if you gained good loot off of enemies. We’ve all been incredibly annoyed when after a difficult boss fight, the boss gets added to our team or unlocks as a playable character and is completely nerfed. In the same vein, the fight should reflect the reward linearly, which is why I’m so insistent on the idea that the enemies you fight are the ones who carry the incredibly powerful gear, rather than it just being a boring chance encounter. The closer the experience is to making the player feel like a prophesized hero with heroic rewards like the aegis, Mjolnir, the Hydra tipped arrows, the better it will be. Even Arthur had a confluence of events leading to the pulling of Excalibur, which is what we want, rather than just finding an op piece of gear in some crate in Balmora.

[burnt cape]

"Morrowind is Exploits" is something so contrarian to the general philosophy of @rustic estuary 's mods that I'm surprised it's used as an argument here. Morrowind has Exploits and this is something that everyone will agree on, but it certainly doesn't revolve around them. In fact, many mods try to limit exploits which tells you sth. Anyway, promoting gameplay loop like so-I-will-boost-my-luck-before-opening-a-container is hardly peak design and frankly if people know about this and like to play optimally it may get a bit tiresome as well. I will also note that Luck doesn't affect loot in either Morrowind or Oblivion, while Skyrim doesn't even have Luck (I guess that the grand process of Toddification eventually led to this ). I can certainly see how the general idea of Luck affecting loot is appealing, but let's not pretend that it's inherent to Morrowind's philosophy or even TES philosophy in general, as Luck didn't affect loot even back in Daggerfall (I checked). However, player opinions and playstyles differ a lot, so I won't deny that some people may find the general idea of Luck affecting loot appealing. It will always be hard to get the numbers right here. Make the Luck impact too big and you punish players who play with standard Luck. Make the Luck impact too small and it will be unimportant unless you get Gaenor levels or sth. In practice it will lead to an easier game as the players will be a bit more Luck-conscious and you will get better loot on average even without using some exploit methods. Whenever somebody proposes an idea that makes the game easier while the game isn't hard to begin with, my first question is whether it's worth implementing this, so that's for mym to decide. As for requests - if this gets implemented, make it optional of course, and turn it off by default.

[burnt cape]

" In the same vein, the fight should reflect the reward linearly, which is why I’m so insistent on the idea that the enemies you fight are the ones who carry the incredibly powerful gear, rather than it just being a boring chance encounter." - this isn't what Luck would do at all. Luck is about random chance, not about linearity. You are pretty much writing about loot type/quality based on enemy's strength and this is already sth which Morrowind does to a large degree in Vanilla. FL already does it as well when it comes to FL loot as you get higher chance of getting better FL loot when facing high level enemies. The only thing that Luck would do is to increase that chance further. I will also note that since every character starts with 40 Luck and it's assumed to be a "base" state for potential FL purposes with 0% boost, you can never be unlucky, only lucky. I don't think it's particularly immersive or RPG-like tbh, as other attributes have much more variation during chargen alone.

[forest pagoda]

I don’t think you get, it’s not lucky that you get loot

It’s lucky that you get to encounter an enemy who has a hilariously broken piece of equipment, that you not only get the joy of being able to battle against, but you also get to claim it as a reward afterward.

[burnt cape]

"In general, the hero/prisoner of every TES game is the personification of luck because they’re a prophesied hero." - one of the fun aspects about Morrowind is that it leaves that thing open to interpretation. One of the interpretations of Morrowind's main quest is that you can embrace Neverar's legacy even if the prophecy was just Azura's tool of getting potential champions to do her thing. All those False Incarnates? They were getting the dreams as well et al. You can also do it all just for power and play the opportunist. You can ignore the prophecy entirely. You can ignore the MQ as well and it's more immersive than in Oblivion or Skyrim beacuse the game doesn't shove the MQ in your face. Anyway, all this, while fun, has nothing to do with this mod 😅

[forest pagoda]

It’s a delightfully elegant gameplay loop, that combines the inherent luck of being a protagonist and chosen one, with a risk and a reward. It’s so mythopoetic it makes me want to cry.

[forest pagoda]

This is one of the most misunderstood parts of Morrowind lore, because most of the in game books and actual story elements point to the idea that we are the chosen one. None of the false incarnates survive putting on Moon and Star, and the Emperor sees our face in his prophecies, not to mention the fact that the Daedric princes even give us the time of day. You’re also forgetting the titular main objects of the series, the Elder Scrolls. I don’t understand why in a world of magic and auguries that people refuse to believe the simplest explanation, the Nerevarine really is chosen reincarnation, a soul taken from one body to another.

[burnt cape]

you are simplifying one of the most interesting aspects of the game's MQ for your own purposes IMO

btw I'm wondering what kind of a chosen one I am if I throw the package to sea and go adventuring, ignoring all the MQ which is totally possible. But again, it's pure off-topic.

[rustic estuary]

thx for your point of view, I feel closer to your vision of MW and luck

I'll think again about that feature, after my current work on NCGDMW

[forest pagoda]

I’m really not, you’re ignoring the majority of the world’s lore in order to try and fit a theme that is the opposite of the theme of the series. I assume this is due to the popularity of games like Kenshi, Elden Ring, and newer games where the theme of the unprophesized hero are more of the vogue. The name of the series is the Elder Scrolls, to try and fit these games to the newer trend of games is in bad faith. The games are about prophecy, and I understand why people don’t like that idea. But I have to wonder, what drew you to TES if it wasn’t for what makes the game series famous, its famous bugginess and hilarious exploits, and its very prosaic and classic heroes, which are counter to both new story telling practices and your own personal tastes.

[burnt cape]

Sorry, I don't want to flood this thread with clearly OT conversation 🙂

[muted sage]

probably my best item so far

[forest pagoda]

Nice, how'd you get it.

[muted sage]

tbh i forgot where i found this piece. but i noticed i've been finding a lot of nice stuff when breaking into rich people's houses and checking their wardrobes.

[forest pagoda]

LMAOOOOOOO

[magic fjord]

naughty, but yeah, nice item

[rustic estuary]

Great item indeed!
What are the levels of the 2 modifiers?

[muted sage]

3 and 4

[rustic estuary]

thx. Do you think the item is OK or OP? 🙂

[muted sage]

relative to other items from this mod it's not that op but this mod as a whole is pretty op lol

[rustic estuary]

That was not my intention 😅 Maybe I should re-balance the modifiers' magnitude

The question of OP depends on where you got the item though

[muted sage]

getting good loot from combat encounters feels fair. but finding it in some guys wardrobe doesn't imo.

not that i'm complaining, i think it's fun

[fair spindle]

I am enjoying it on my new run

[rustic estuary]

Please give me feedback on balance once we've found some items

[fair spindle]

I don’t think anything has been unbalanced so far, but I’ve gotten a few constant effect ones….i will have to dive and look at them closely to see if too OP. IIRC they were like skill ones or night eye so that’s less crazy

[rustic estuary]

I did add low constant effects available in early game, because it's exciting without being OP, I hope

[fair spindle]

It is really exciting!

[indigo robin]

i got a ring that increases my Magicka by 0.5x

by killing the Ienith bros and looking into their chest

every single item was enchanted

good shit

[muted sage]

huge

[peak berry]

damn bro you're getting community engagement every day, what am i doing wrong with my mods? (jealous)

[fair spindle]

I’m trying to be better about giving feedback than just liking a mod lot or brushing past issues in a vacuum lol

[wanton slate]

Def putting this in my customisation folder.

[magic fjord]

its a great mod, and highly recommended

[muted sage]

funny bug: when you get arrested and your stuff gets put in the evidence chest, it will get enchanted

[magic fjord]

dont fix that, lol

[burnt cape]

seems obvious that the evidence chest should be excluded, so I assume that @rustic estuary will patch that up quickly 😆

[magic fjord]

just I thought getting arrested might be a good idea

[rustic estuary]

Fresh Loot 2.1.4 released!

• Prevent conversion of items in jail's containers (stolen goods)

[rustic estuary]

thx for the report

[muted sage]

my first level 5 modifier. too bad i don't use marksman or destruction.

[magic fjord]

nice item

[burnt cape]

Indeed. Where did you find it @muted sage ?

[muted sage]

somewhere in the new tamriel rebuilt area. high level cave with bandits.

[umbral plank]

The finest common robe I've ever seen 😁

[tight lion]

after the last update I get lua errors like these for different magic effects when I try to talk to an npc, this happens seemingly at random. it wont allow me to talk to the npc and will keep generating these errors when I press E on them, only going away when I disable and reenable freshloot

[rustic estuary]

it seems you updated FL from v1.X to 2.X which is explicitly not possible mid-game

[night lance]

What's recommended place in loading order for this mod? I keep it low because it seems to overwrite Bound Balance spear, but I'm not sure if it's not overwritten by others now.

[rustic estuary]

Load order should not be important

the omwaddon only adds custom enchants and I haven't heard any issue with the omwscripts place in the load order

[muted sage]

this is mostly a problem with self-control and not so much a bug, but it's possible to repeatedly regenerate loot in locked containers if you save and reload

[rustic estuary]

Yeah, I cannot really change that. I apply random modifiers on randomly picked levelled items: It's not easy to ensure the same modifiers as the items change each time

I could do something on unlevelled items maybe

but I think it's not related to locked containers

[night lance]

This is gonna score me some friends for sure ❤️

[magic fjord]

very nice

[night lance]

But I gotta admit, even though I felt the mod will be nice judging from description, it actually feels aaaaamazing, gives exactly that what was missing from me in Morrowind, which I love, these tiny little rewards here and there with a hope for a big one someday, like in Diablo

[ancient wadi]

Fresh Loot is compatible with Wares Ultimate?

[magic fjord]

yes

[rustic estuary]

Fresh Loot 2.1.5 released!

• Fixed error when opening containers after adding valid items to those which had no valid items before

[misty kraken]

I'm getting this error in the log in a particular bit of wilderness in PC. Battle music plays and the game crashes.

[14:12:09.409 E] Error in frame: Enchantment '"FreshLoot_fortifyattribute-personality-onUse_2"' not found

Hmmm... the game still crashes even with freshloot disabled

Think this was an issue with three PC NPCs (PC_m1_O_JynaTeinus, PC_m1_O_TrivisBrado, and PC_m1_O_DroShada) . Once all three are dead my game stops crashing. ToggleAI allowed me to sethealth 0 them.

Strange thing is, can't search their corpses 🤔

Can take a look in the log if you'd like, but that's it "fixed". Wonder what happened? 🙂

[rustic estuary]

It seems that you updated Fresh Loot mid game from v1.X to 2.X which is not possible, sorry

[misty kraken]

Ah, yup that’s what I’ve done. Thanks I’ll know not to update again until I’m done with this char

[tight sky]

hey mym, i figure you must know the answer to this: there's currently no way to see whether an unresolved container has levelled items in it, right?

[rustic estuary]

Yeah I didn't find a way to do it. I had to track the items before the resolving, then resolve the container and deduce the leveled items

[tight sky]

thanks for confirming. i just spent a while looking for it in the readthedocs and came up with nothing. but i remembered your mod, so i guessed you had come up with some way to work around it. i hope someone makes a MR to expose levelled items to lua soon.

[rustic estuary]

They could expose the leveled lists, but the leveled items are randomly picked when you access the container

[tight sky]

right, sorry, that's what i meant. TR currently has a mwse-lua custom magic effect which re-weights the chances of each possible item in a leveled list when a container is resolved, so that you get more valuable loot on average. i was looking into whether it was possible to do something similar in openmw-lua. your modifiers approach works without needing access to the specific list of items that the chest could have contained, which is smart

[rustic estuary]

Indeed, the base item types chance don't change, but I have a control over the modifiers quality

[rustic estuary]

I just saw that comment, and then I checked FL modifiers, but that's not supposed to happen. The modifier that adds "command humanoid" will produce at its max level 5: 10-20 for 30s.

@golden holly do you still have a game save with that item? What FL version were you using?

[rustic estuary]

I needed my modifier description list to be available from both OpenMW Lua and CLI Lua, that's why I had to mock some OpenMW files

Then I just iterate over the modifiers descriptions and construct the delta plugin YAML file from templates

@brave frost

[peak berry]

can you add a setting to use the price balance value formula?
https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/45529

or maybe my tes3mpPriceBalance formula:

    local new_value = value ^ 0.73 * 2 --some simple formula, but too low in the low end
    local weird_log = value/(MAX((LOG10(value )-1.6),1)^1.9) --log based formula, very high low end but also pretty high high end
    return ( (LOG10(value)-1.2)*new_value + (7-(LOG10(value)-1.2))*weird_log )/7 -- mix both formulas together
end```

wtf?

[rustic estuary]

Use a price formula for what part of FL?

[rustic estuary]

You cannot update midgame from v1.X to 2.X

[peak berry]

i thought it increased the item prices when it adds the enchantments

[rustic estuary]

Indeed. But I just add a small amount, proportional to the modifier and its level

I start from the item value and add a small computed value

So if you have Price Balance, it will be the base price from which I start

[peak berry]

i thought enchantments were super expensive

at least lategame

[rustic estuary]

They can, but I don't want to unbalance the game because of FL

[peak berry]

idk, if it doesnt increase the item value from 200 to 5000 its fine

[rustic estuary]

Never, I think

But, FL can add a great enchantment to a basic dagger if it's protected by high level enemies + locks/traps... In such a case the dagger price will be greatly increased

[peak berry]

then i guess i have to start yet another run

luckily i just made a roguelite mod

[rustic estuary]

Yeah sorry, v2.0 required deep changes

[misty kraken]

Your two usernames and dyslexia are a hell of a mix 😂

[rustic estuary]

Fresh Loot 2.2 released!

• Added interoperability with Protected Beasts (version 1.2 and above)
• Supports all beast armors handled by Protected Beasts and its compatible mods
• Allow the burden on strike modifier on projectiles
• Can be updated mid-game

Protected Beasts 1.2 is not out yet, but it will within a week or 2 I hope

[peak berry]

1.x can now finally be updated to this?

[rustic estuary]

Sorry no new version will allow that

[rustic estuary]

Fresh Loot 2.3 released!

• Improved adjacent exterior cells processing for equipped items
• Fixed actors spawned in adjacent cells having their equipment processed too late
• Fixed actors' wealth from owned containers computed too late, after converting their equipped items
• When entering a new cell, randomly distribute the equipment processing over time to reduce potential lags
• Improved the refresh of converted items when related settings are changed
• Can be updated mid-game

[rustic estuary]

Fresh Loot 2.4 released!

• Stop converting items in merchant's containers as it breaks the automatic refresh of levelled lists
• Don't convert unlevelled items in actors' inventories as it's rare and can convert recovered projectiles
• Improved the setting page layout
• Small performance improvements, bug fixes, and code simplifications
• New setting to control the modifier level reduction for weapons converted thanks to the second chance setting
• Improved creatures' wealth settings, please reset the Misc setting section to get the new defaults
• Can be updated mid-game

[forest perch]

Wow, thank you, Mym

[burnt cape]

Looks like a solid update with important behind the scenes improvements. Good call on no unlevelled loot conversion. For mod purposes, such stuff is like hand-placed objects, so it's best to leave it untouched.

[rustic estuary]

Fresh Loot 2.5 released!

• New approach to process containers and actors around the player (to work with the progressive navigation mesh generation)
• Fixed randomly undetected container protectors for distant containers
• Fixed item conversion errors when disabling wealth limits
• Fixed settings disabled after game loading
• Updated Protected Beasts compatibility for its upcoming release
• Optimized the code for OpenMW 0.50 dev builds
• Small fixes and improvements
• Can be updated mid-game

[forest perch]

My friend, I'm not sure if this is helpful but I did load an older test save

Global[scripts/fresh-loot/global.lua] callTimer failed: Callback 'FreshLoot_checkEquipment@0x513' doesn't exist
[10:38:51.950 E] Global[scripts/fresh-loot/global.lua] callTimer failed: Callback 'FreshLoot_checkEquipment0x57000181' doesn't exist

[rustic estuary]

this is not major, but weird, as such callbacks are supposed to be saved in your game save and be available when you load your game

the only impact is one npc or creature not having his items converted

[rustic estuary]

maybe the callback is lost if I change the code

there is no fix for that

[forest perch]

No problem at all brother

[rustic estuary]

The new version of Protected Beasts is out, with my FL interop and optimizations.

Now if you're a beast race and want to equip a compatible helmet or boots that has been converted by FL, then it will be automatically replaced with the beast version, while preserving FL modifiers.

However the beast equipment action is broken on OpenMW 0.50. It may be fixed in the future by OpenMW's devs.

[devout fossil]

So stoked to see the interops happening!

[rustic estuary]

I just created an issue on OpenMW's tracker: https://gitlab.com/OpenMW/openmw/-/issues/8675

[dull bough]

Is this from fresh loot? I didn't expect items this op from level 16 bandits💀

[devout fossil]

Loot quality is depending on many fairly-well-balanced factors, see docs

Howling/fencing does seems strong, but it is certainly offset by debuffs

[dull bough]

Also found a 10% sanctuary and 20 night eye in the same cave haha. Not gonna lie is a bit of a deal breaker to me, will probably have to install HBFS

Well yeah the de buffs kinda balances out

[devout fossil]

You might check the options of FL first, as all of this is configurable. i just made drops much rarer, but you can tune just how much each factor affects loot quality, even though mym hates options 😉

[stone bay]

even vanilla is a bit of a dealbreaker to me without HBFS

[devout fossil]

HBFS and 100% difficulty are musts for this vet

[stone bay]

Morrowind isn't really a shining example of balance

[dull bough]

Now that you say it, I don't think I've checked the options for fresh loot, should've done that first

[devout fossil]

The era before balance was so critical

I.e., not multiplayer

[dull bough]

I thought that mdmd and beware the sixth house were gonna be enough but I'm on the mainland, those doesn't apply here

[devout fossil]

Mdmd?

[stone bay]

i use MDMD with HBFS

[dull bough]

More deadly Morrowind denizens. Makes like 200 npcs way harder, but just on Vvardenfell

[stone bay]

yeah

i wish it affected more, but it already does a good job for those

[devout fossil]

HBFS also highly-tunable. No experience with MDMD here 🤷‍♂️

[stone bay]

the NPCs get new spells and stuff, so you have to change your whole strategy, it becomes much harder to cheese them

[dull bough]

I installed HBFS once, but it was waaaaay too hard at level 1. Maybe I had to power through that and it would become more bearable later on

[stone bay]

i also use Mercy on top of HBFS and MDMD, for a real challenge

so the AI will duck and cover

[devout fossil]

To me it is extremely fun to fear Balmora FG rats, YMMV

Oh yes I, too, would never forego Mercy. ❤️ the mym suite

[dull bough]

I'm not super good at Morrowind combat so maybe all of those together are too much for me haha, but I'll give HBFS another try

[stone bay]

i want my playthroughs to be as painful as possible

i even have Devilish Needs and other stuff

lately i've been thinking about doing starts where all my skills are like at 5 or 10

[dull bough]

Nah, I like a middle ground, I hate cheesing everything and one hitting every enemy like they're rats, but also I don't enjoy being killed 30 times in a row by a random bandit

[devout fossil]

You want: https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/53721

I'm a huge fan, only way I can feel good about using Moonlight: https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/52456 , which is OP af

[stone bay]

thanks for the recommendation, i grabbed it and will try it next playthrough

[devout fossil]

Granted, CRAP is attribute nerfs instead of skill, but it got me there. Really makes one focus on char design! Fun to mix with NCGDMW at maximum attribute impact from starting skills! Can get into the teens for attributes, easily. Really changes the game and adds difficulty in a way I love. Plus now your mage is actually frail amd slow as hell, your armored fighter is clumsy and dumb, your thief sucks at spells, etc. Punishes middling and everyman builds via vanilla training limits.
TLDR; NCGDMW at max attribute impact from starting skills + CRAP is 👌

NCGD+CRAP is also for char design jollies with the 4.0+ NCGDMW skill->attribute impacts 😊

Wrong channel, sry

[stone bay]

yeah, it's exactly what i was looking for, i'm just looking for various ways to make things harder on myself

NCGDMW is amazing also

i set big skill decay and other stuff like that

[devout fossil]

Look at https://discord.com/channels/260439894298460160/1343504949589442641 and let's please take further discussion to there or #general

Yes, NCGDMW under mym's care has become a very flexible tool for most things character!

[rustic estuary]

It's surprising to get 2 modifiers level 5 with enemies level 16: Level 5 modifiers best chance to appear is from level 50 enemies

was it in their inventory?

or in containers around? Did containers had any locks or traps?

I just checked and you have around 0.11 % chance to get a modifier level 5 with enemies level 16, and thus 0.00012% chance to get 2 modifiers (provided you get a second modifier)

The base type, ebony sword, is not selected by FL, it was there or picked from a levelled list by OpenMW

[dull bough]

Container with high level lock, 80 I think. It was a cave in the armun Ashlands in tamriel rebuilt, don't remember the name but I'll check tomorrow

Sorry the boss closest to the chest was level 17, the other bandits were 9-16

[vast knoll]

_ursos

Now that you say it, I don't think I've checked the options for fresh loot, should've done that first

Linked by @​illest503 from #Fresh Loot · Aug 26, 2025, 10:04 PM

[devout fossil]

Looks like a pretty lucky roll, either way

[rustic estuary]

could you give me the area name (or cell name, cell id...)

[dull bough]

https://en.m.uesp.net/wiki/Tamriel_Rebuilt:Issarbaddon

[burnt cape]

Seems strange to get this from a lvl 16 NPC. That combo with demoralize is very strong. Very lucky, maybe even too much, haha. I'm glad that the fencing modifier is working, at least. The intention was to make it suitable for duelist characters who don't rely on shields.

[dull bough]

Yep, seems like I got the "shiny Pokemon" of fresh loot hahaha

[devout fossil]

I don't seem to be able to delete this, sorry if it seemed snippy

[dull bough]

It's fine, I couldve avoided the op item if I had set the "end game loot" to a higher level haha

[burnt cape]

Do you use default values?

[dull bough]

Yep, as I said, I never checked the mod settings until I got this op item today haha

[burnt cape]

Ok. Then it is definitely of interest RE: balance ;).

[devout fossil]

^ Way more apt than my suggestion to nerf probabilities/levels in settings

[dull bough]

If it actually was a super lucky roll, then I guess is fine

[devout fossil]

If drops don't continue to seem so strong for you in this playthrough, that would illuminate

...just to rule out/in the chance of a lucky roll, but the leveling of any such rare roll may still need a tweak. I admit that I nerfed chances and levels fairly early in my play of this mod

[rustic estuary]

Thx, I'll go there to check how FL computes the modifier levels

[burnt cape]

Yeah, personal tuning is always possible, but defaults should be appropriate for a typical playthrough.

[devout fossil]

I was way off base

[dull bough]

There's like a million containers in that cave, I also got a 100 feather constant effect item, other item with 10% sanctuary, and a 20 night eye+8 mercantile item.

All CE

I came out of that cave like 60% more OP/rich than when I entered 🤣

[burnt cape]

Well, nothing here seems OP except maybe the fact that you got so many items at the same time 😄

[dull bough]

Yes, those other items weren't as Op, but the amount of them was

That's why I only pointed out the sword

[devout fossil]

What level was the character you played, I wonder

[dull bough]

I'm level 15 I think

[rustic estuary]

there is also a crowd factor that impacts the modifier levels and the chances to find items

the player level has no impact by default

[devout fossil]

Perhaps an edge case in TR dungeon design

[burnt cape]

The only thing of note about that cave is the number of NPCs so that may have some impact

They aren't very high lvl, though. More like mid-lvl

[dull bough]

And the fact that there's like 50 barrels there doesn't have impact? I mean I know nothing of how the mod works but logic tells me that more containers=more chances of loot

[devout fossil]

Proximity

[burnt cape]

well, yes, the more containers the are, the more chance of finding something. This is always true. However, it's rather common to find many containers in caves. Most of them don't have anything substantial 😄

locked and trapped containers have higher chance of getting sth from FL

the combination of locked + trapped + guarded by enemies give the best chance of finding sth good

but the sword you got - a very strong item - was from an enemy, right?

not from a container

[dull bough]

Nope, locked+trapped high level lock, I can't remember exactly but it was at least a 70 lock

[burnt cape]

ah, ok

it's starting to make more sense

[devout fossil]

Lock/trap strength boost to FL is hard to balance across archetypes, perhaps

There comes a point in any playthrough where 100pt unlock scrolls drop like candy, but prior to that...

Also, ability to take a trap on the chin varies widely with race/class/birthsign

[burnt cape]

it still makes sense to give better loot

on average

in such cases

[devout fossil]

Amen! But...how much better??

[burnt cape]

what is interesting here is the combination of 2 very high lvl effects

as this sword is not just 1 effect

it's a combo of 2 strong ones

[devout fossil]

Yessir, never had something like that before I self-nerfed via settings, despite many rolls...well maybe, actually. I defs felt like I needed to nerf

For me it is as fluid as modern genders, the eternal battle between buff and nerf mods

But I can observe with a heart full of love that FL did feel to me to be more on the buff side of things, out of the box

The bonuses are purely additive, after all

[burnt cape]

well, this mod is about giving the player new interesting items, so while you won't get more stuff per se (FL doesn't create new items, only modify existing ones), you will end up seeing more enchanted loot overall. If the enemy is using the item, then that increases the challenge as well as the reward. If the item is in a container, then it's only a bonus.

[devout fossil]

Indeed. And I am in love with the character differentiation that early items with diverse enchants definitely encourage

The guy in the Ebonheart under-cave is way tougher, always, as a good example. Maybe Ursos' PC is enough over-equipped to make such loot-gaining trivial

Or that user just knows the strats

I seem to remember decimating or near-decimating the loot chance after some testing, could confirm perhaps tomorow or after at my PC

Then again, I seem to be one of the masochists alluded to in #general 😂

[rustic estuary]

I just got to the Lair part, and FL estimates the loot level of containers to 11-12

which is low and should not produce such high level modifiers

do you have a game save from before opening those containers?

[rustic estuary]

BTW I just noticed that in the first part (cell) of that place, containers belong to the boss who is in the lair part: FL doesn't know the boss yet, and without his level it cannot generate items.
Maybe, when the player did not met the owner yet, FL could just forget about the owner level and only use enemies around containers

@burnt cape do you think it would be balanced that way?

[burnt cape]

Sounds like a technical thing, i.e. a workaround. Don't see anything wrong with the concept itself. It doesn't explain this case, though. If anything, the player could have a chance to find more FL items.

[rustic estuary]

Yeah, unrelated, but testing the bug made me realize this other thing

I found the boss' container, estimated to loot level 28 because boss level 17 + 10 (lock 100) + 1 (low level trap)

a loot level 28 has 1.2% chance to generate a level 5 modifier, and less than 0.014% chance to generate 2 level 5 modifiers: Still highly unlikely

I got modifiers level 3 and 4

[burnt cape]

Seems like a fluke. I'm not sure the current approach to double high lvl effects is right, though, and that seems to be the problem here. Perhaps they should appear only in more exceptional circumstances. Lvl 17 enemy and 100 lock is not exceptional. It's mid-high. That 0.014% chance here may be muddling the balance because flukes happen. It should feel more deserved.

[rustic estuary]

"double high lvl effects"?

[burnt cape]

The sword which was found has 2 high lvl modifiers

Not just 1

Doesn't have to be a bug if you calculated the chance as 0.014%

Just highely unlikely

Maybe undeserved, though, as 17 lvl guardian and 100 lock is not sth that warrants two lvl 5 effects in 1 item

That's what I'm saying

Two lvl 5 effects item is basically the strongest thing you can get via FL

[rustic estuary]

I agree it's undeserved, and I wonder if I missed something, because 0.014% is very low. It's actually 0.0036 if we include the 25% chance to get a second modifier

[burnt cape]

Yeah but maybe the 0.014% shouldn't even be there in this case. Somebody will find it. It's not 0.

[rustic estuary]

hmmm I had thoughts on that in the past

maybe I should reduce the chances to get higher modifiers, so you only get the relevant modifier level or the one above with lower chances, but not 2 levels above

also, lock and trap bonuses could work differently

currently, I add an absolute value to the loot level, but it could be relative

like max +50% loot level

the drawback is for low level loot, like enemies level 2 with a lock level 100, you'll get 2 + 2*05 = 3 (still low)

[burnt cape]

And what happens if there are no enemies? 😅

[rustic estuary]

no enemy => no conversion

we talked about this 🙂

[burnt cape]

Then this could be a downgrade. In fact, it could be more annoying than anything as you would more often get very low FL items on good quality loot.

[burnt cape]

For lvl 1 or lvl 2 modifiers it probably doesn't matter that much. However, second effect for lvl 3+ could be treated as super lvl and appear in exceptional situations. Very low chance could be turned to 0. 0.014% is only muddling the balance.

[burnt cape]

Btw considering high discrepancy between lock lvl and trap lvl, wouldn't it be better to discount the trap in such cases? I mean, a super weak trap on the highest possible lock isn't actually contributing anything to the challenge here.

[burnt cape]

There is also an option for using this restriction for containers only. The reasoning is that the enemies can use the items against the player first. Just food for thought.

[rustic estuary]

That's already the case, and I can tweak the chances to better values

[rustic estuary]

+1 loot level for that trap is not much. It's not +1 modifier level!

[rustic estuary]

What option?

[burnt cape]

It's not. It just stood out.

[burnt cape]

Just a possibility. Not a current mod option.

I've been also thinking about anti-spam option, i.e. lowered chance for finding multiple FL items in the same cell. In other words, the more FL items you find in one place, the rarer they become there to avoid overflowing a place with FL items.

[rustic estuary]

it's already the case with owned containers and their owner, because of the wealth limit

I'm not sure how to do that simply and properly for other loot

[dull bough]

No sorry, I played for like 2 hours after that and my quick saves got overwritten

[rustic estuary]

no problem

if it ever happens again, please send me a game save from before opening the container

[dull bough]

Sure👍🏻

[rustic estuary]

Suppose you open all the minor containers and reach that new limit, then you open the boss' container, and... Nothing

[rustic estuary]

Fresh Loot 2.5.1 released!

• When a container's owner has not been met yet, compute the loot level only based on other protectors around the container
• Fixed no item conversions for containers owned by an unknown NPC (unknown level)
• Fixed no item conversions for containers owned by a faction for which no NPCs of the required rank has been met yet
• Reduced the chance to get modifier levels above the estimated loot level

[flat marsh]

Do you think adding something similar to the Leveled Filled Soul Gems will fit the theme of Fresh Loot?

[rustic estuary]

Thx for the suggestion, I like the idea and it seems to be doable with Lua in OpenMW 0.49

I also thought about adding scrolls

[rustic estuary]

And also potions 😁

[burnt cape]

I think that random scrolls and potions could offer sth more exciting than soul gems. Soul gems are always the same. You can't really do much with them as loot. Scrolls and potions have massive potential when it comes to effects and you can mix good effects with bad ones to make them even more interesting.

[rustic estuary]

I agree. And I'm glad you mention the effect mix balance because I may need someone to find nice modifiers 🙃

One issue with scrolls and potions is that they'll all look the same, whatever the effects

Are there different potion models for different magic schools?

[burnt cape]

I saw different icons on Nexus. Not sure about models. Models are unimportant in this case, though, as you rarely see them.

[rustic estuary]

Yeah, right, icons

Do potions and scrolls should get the same effects?

[flat marsh]

bartender, one bottle of open 50pts please

[rustic estuary]

Yeah I guess potions should mostly have positive self effects 😅

[flat marsh]

not necessarily cough cough #1403115098784141454 cough

[rustic estuary]

Clearly there is an interesting interoperability here

[rustic estuary]

But it's not interesting to rely on random to get poison potions

[burnt cape]

Strong potions with notable debuffs can actually be the most interesting ones. Berserk-type potions that increase STR, SPD and Attack but debuff Agility and damage Magicka. Potions that heavily fortify magicka but damage Fatigue. Tank-type potions that increase END and apply Shield but also apply Burden. Anti-magic potions with strong Reflect and Absorption that also apply Stunted Magicka and weakness to normal weapons.

Scrolls are even better because they can mix on hit and self effects

[rustic estuary]

You mean on touch and on target ?

My fears with scrolls are their identical visuals in the inventory, and the required micro management during combats

[burnt cape]

I mean that you can do things like applying Poison on the enemy and Poison Resistance on self. More options, more variety

[rustic estuary]

Fresh Loot 2.6 released!

• New presets to easily configure the rarity of Fresh Loot items (thx to @burnt cape idea)
• The default preset (Rare) reduces a bit the chance to get converted items, compared to the previous defaults
• For mid-game updates, please check your settings after the update as some of them will change
• New setting which, after each conversion in a single loot, reduces the chance to get a conversion for next items
• Fixed stacks of non-projectile items converted to single items
• Improved the setting page documentation (helped by @burnt cape)

[burnt cape]

FL can be a bit hard mod to tweak if somebody doesn't want to go heavily into technical details. Hopefully, presets will be helpful here. Obviously the mod is heavily RNG-based, but in a controlled way. Rare preset should be fine for a typical playthrough. Very Rare is for those who want to find FL items sparingly and treat them like sth very special. Common is probably the most similar to previous experience. Very Common is fun mode if somebody likes finding many shiny things or plans to do a short playthrough and still wants to reliably find FL items.

[rustic estuary]

Fresh Loot 2.6.1 released!

• Replaced the setting "Equipped Weapon Second Chance" with a variation "Weapon Minimum Chance" that ensures a minimum conversion chance
• The setting "Weapon Minimum Chance" applies on actors' equipment, and includes weapons and ammunition
• Removed the setting "Equipped Weapon Second Chance Loot Level Multiplier" to prevent the generation of wasted weapons
• Fixed loot level chance bonus only applied to containers (not to actors)

[rustic estuary]

Fresh Loot 3.0 released!

• Not compatible with 1.X and 2.X versions, you need to start a new game!
• Reworked lots of modifiers to improve the affected items, which greatly improves the diversity (thx to @burnt cape)
• Added 10 new modifiers with both positive and negative effects (designed by @burnt cape)
• Prevent combos of modifiers with the same range and same effect
• Prevent combos of modifiers with the same range and opposite effects (e.g. Resist Fire and Weakness to Fire on the same target)
• Removed the wealth constraint on creatures (too limiting)
• Container's protectors now split their loot level chance bonus among their protected containers (i.e. less bonus if many containers and few protectors)
• Removed the crowd factor, because it's now redundant with the new loot level chance bonus
• Fixed container's protectors randomly not detected because sometimes the container analysis finished before the navigation mesh cache generation
• Fixed no lock/trap boost for some containers behind lock/trap doors
• Fixed small bugs in modifier definitions

[burnt cape]

Another meaty update 👍🏻 . It's a great mod for more equipment variety.

[wraith flicker]

Sounds like a great update, thanks everybody! now its just a test of my willpower to continue my playthrough without updating 🫡

[burnt cape]

Well, if you still have fun things to do, then restarting for updated FL alone may not be worth it. The old version is ok. This one is simply improved. However, IIRC you've been playing for 300+ hours, so at some point restart will be a good option, anyway.

[wraith flicker]

Not that much yet as my compulsions got the better of me when DN came out 😅 but i am in deep enough that its not worth it you're right, ill just have think of it as my 2.0 game and hopefully slow down on the new mods, just looking at my nexus stats and iv dl'd over 1200 mods since may. Im currently running most of them and its getting unwieldy..

Its just been a good year for mw modding

[burnt cape]

1200 new downloaded mods is crazy

[wraith flicker]

Little bit yep

Tbf though its amazing how stable it is, testament to the skills of the modders

[burnt cape]

Lua mods are usually fine, but did you manage updates for all the mods with cell/NPC/item changes, mwscripts etc?

[wraith flicker]

Yeah its not too bad, with some care and liberal appliation of Ashlander Architect. I use it as an ingame bug fixing tool. Some cs work is occasionally necessary too but thats ok with me

[rustic estuary]

One can wait a little more for my NCGDMW split mods to come out

[burnt cape]

Sure. Clean install and all. New UI, I assume.

[rustic estuary]

yeah, new UI, some new features also

[brave frost]

How does FL pair with starwind?

Would it be, uhh.....

Not nightmarish to switch the base items used out for SW ones?

[rustic estuary]

I never tried, but I don't see any possible hard conflict.
If the Starwind addons contain levelled lists, then I should run my delta-plugin-based scripts on them to get the IDs, which will help FL to already know which items it can convert

maybe the only "conflict" would be the FL's modifier names, which may not fit with the Starwars universe

you can check the names here: https://gitlab.com/modding-openmw/fresh-loot/-/blob/main/00 Core/l10n/FreshLoot/en.yaml?ref_type=heads#L189

[brave frost]

here's the LEVIs for everything

Honestly, I don't mind the names, but I'd like to be able to make sure like blasters and vibroblades actually get distributed

[rustic estuary]

thx, that will be quick then 🙂

without such a list, FL will progressievly learn the IDs as the player open containers with levelled lists, which will work eventually, but you'll lose many possible conversions

[brave frost]

Sweet. Oh, by the way, I think it should be fine if it distributes Morrowind items too. Maybe if we could make that an optional ESP or something. As long as that's not too troublesome

[rustic estuary]

FL only converts existing items: If it doesn't encounter MW items, it will not produce MW-based items

[brave frost]

Oh, sweet!

Sorry I don't know how it works 😅

[rustic estuary]

np 🙂

you list seems to contain stuff that are not armor/clothing/weapons

[brave frost]

oh, well, you said leveled lists, so I just dumped literally all of them

[rustic estuary]

I generated this one from the addons

using: StarwindRemasteredPatch.esm and StarwindRemasteredV1.15.esm

are there other addons?

[brave frost]

uh there are probably like seven or eight you'd care for here

use this

[rustic estuary]

does "StarwindRemasteredPatch.esm" is relevant too?

[brave frost]

not in this case

^ is all the relevant starwind addons merged into the first one

This is the two base ESMs + enhanced + endor + death troopers + naboo, all of which have their own gear items

[rustic estuary]

I get more items indeed

my addon was out of date

[brave frost]

yea, a lot of this stuff is from the naboo addon

I'm releasing the singleplayer verison soon

[rustic estuary]

are there other starwind addons adding item levelled lists I should consider?

[brave frost]

no, like I said I merged all the relevant ones into that ESM I posted

[rustic estuary]

perfect

Fresh Loot 3.0.3 released!

• Support Starwind levelled items (all already known on new game)
• Fixed settings controlled by a preset set to "nil" on setting section reset

[rustic estuary]

Fresh Loot 3.1 released!

• Actor and container Lua scripts are no longer permanently attached to their object
• Reduced the game saves size
• Impacts only new games or newly encountered actors and containers

[burnt cape]

The nature of this update makes me hesistant to install this mid-game

[rustic estuary]

it's only to reduce a bit the game saves. No need to install it midgame

[tawdry sparrow]

Are you unhooking actors and containers now ? Or have you always done that with this mod

[rustic estuary]

I was already dynamically attaching scripts to actors, but I was never removing the scripts.
For containers, I was attaching scripts to those which got converted items, in order to be able to revert their content, but now it's done via the global script, no container scripts needed anymore.

[rustic estuary]

Fresh Loot 3.1.1 released!

• Re-added the old item window hotkey setting
• Fixed hotkey conflicts with interface search boxes, when using the keyboard
• Prevent item window showing when the main menu is visible (when using a controller)

[rustic estuary]

Fresh Loot 3.1.2, 3.1.3, 3.1.4 released!

• 3.1.4
  • Fixed not detecting some containers protected by locked doors
  • Optimization: Never search for non-teleporting locked doors in exteriors
• 3.1.3
  • Optimization: Don't analyze unprotected containers in exteriors (non-teleporting locked doors won't be analyzed, but they are very unlikely in exteriors)
• 3.1.2
  • Automatically close the item window when the alchemy and enchanting windows open
  • Fixed item window not showing up the first time after auto-close

[rustic estuary]

Fresh Loot 3.2 released!

• Buffed multiple low level modifiers (mostly longer durations) to make them actually useful (thx to @burnt cape)
• Removed a few high level modifiers for moderately useful effects (thx to @burnt cape)
• New obsolete modifiers and modifier levels handling, allowing mid-game updates and preventing new conversions with old modifiers or specific levels
• Added "on use" modifiers for effects Demoralize Creature, Demoralize Humanoid, and Turn Undead
• Added a list of actor level overrides (to set the loot quality, actual levels unchanged), for when the level doesn't match the actor's strength
• Nerfed the considered level of several Bloodmoon's spawnable NPCs (thx to @burnt cape)
• Fixed a rare conversion error because of bug on the mismatching modifier combo prevention
• Improved the setting management code

[tawdry sparrow]

Hey mym, would you be interested in creating some enchantments for loot for custom spells? I can give you a list of magic effect IDs if you want. They come from content so the mods would have to load before yours, but other than that they can be treated as if they were in an .esp

[rustic estuary]

Yes of course!
I'll have to implement the dynamic addition to the content object for specific modifiers.
I'll need the addon filename providing the new effects, and then the new modifier definitions (prefix/suffix name, cast type, value, charge/cost, effect just with target type, magnitudes, duration...), as they are defined here:
https://gitlab.com/modding-openmw/fresh-loot/-/tree/main/00 Core/scripts/fresh-loot/modifiers?ref_type=heads

Balancing the new modifiers may be challenging as I've never used them

I won't be able to do anything before Monday though

[tawdry sparrow]

I just realised, you have an esp for Fresh Loot yeah? Does this have all the enchantments you use in it?

[tawdry sparrow]

Yeah sure that's no problem, no rush on this either haha

[tawdry sparrow]

For sure haha, especially some of the TR spells are quite nuts. Fortify Bardcraft enchantment on items sounds awesome though and I think the Insight spell effect is also compatible with Fresh Loot, (when used with quick loot i think ?) since I hooked into quick loot's event that ownlyme uses for your mod. I didn't test it but I think if we get it working, it will be quite funny

[wraith flicker]

Cursed boots of passwall, randomly shunt you into adjacent rooms

[rustic estuary]

Yeah, for the vanilla effects I generate a big addon (110K enchantments) from the definitions I linked above

[wraith flicker]

Blink bow!!👀

[tawdry sparrow]

Gotcha. Also, not sure if you want to do anything with content but I know people can create enchantments with the new API

[rustic estuary]

Yeah, that's the idea, no other choice

[rustic estuary]

Thx to you too 😉

[rustic estuary]

However I see no real interest to cover my addon to dynamic enchantment creation. Vanilla effects are efficiently loaded as an addon, I don't want to add 110K enchantments on the script init

[vale vault]

Does freshloot touch potions?

It looks like it was a thought at one point but I am not sure if it made it to production - currently testing this mod https://www.nexusmods.com/morrowind/mods/58809 and making sure they will work well together

[rustic estuary]

Nope

[vale vault]

Thanks

[burnt cape]

It's so cool to see an enemy using a FL item giving it sth it doesn't normally have. I saw a Skeleton Warrior casting a Lightning Shield on itself because of a FL modifier on a shield it had and a different enemy casting Sanctuary despite the fact that they had no spells... also because of a FL item. Quite surprising and fun 😄

[vague furnace]

You said to mention if you think there are balance issues and there's one that I can find. Hopefully this isn't too necro.

I have been playing and enjoying this mod for years so please accept that these are my opinions and if they aren't helpful then just ignore them.

1. Finding enchants relative to your build in that character's lifetime means turning up the drop frequency.
   But even still you see mostly stuff that is random Diablo vendor trash level or lower because of the high proc rate of negative/indifferent affixes.

Proposed solutions: reduction in randomness in enchant quality and/or chance of 'corrupted' enchants with serious downsides.

Merchants with frequently refreshing well stocked inventories with random leveled gear to raise chances of finding something the player can put to use without adjusting the drop frequency setting.

Plus there is the added balancing factor of paying a price for something more ideal.

Sorry for the wall of text. Thanks for the great mod.

[wraith flicker]

Hmm needs a Horadric Cube.. 🤔

[vague furnace]

I mean a way to 'reroll' affixes with appropriately expensive mats wouldn't be the worst solution.

[rustic estuary]

Thx for your feedback! This is an interesting remark, I'll respond to it when I can. Recently I've been quite busy with life and bugs

[rustic estuary]

The idea is to not break the game balance, and provide no OP items.
Also it's good to incite the player to slightly alter his play style based on which items he found.

I'm planning an update where actors will not get items that don't match their profile and equipment.
I was also thinking about a way to filter the selected modifiers for items in containers, so they match the player profile, but this can easily get OP