deep-dive-discussion

[hazy scarab]

double morkite in the edd is some crazy stuff

[still geode]

dark morkite edd meta?

[hazy scarab]

both are short morkite missions too

[still geode]

its three morkite edd btw

one of em is 150

[hazy scarab]

stage 3 probably gets dread cheesed on top of that

looks like a very easy edd this week

[tulip idol]

As in pop it via oob and chill?

[still geode]

i think a lot of random lobbies are going to die over and over on stage1 due to getting blown up

[hazy scarab]

yeah depending on position

[tulip idol]

Classic Dreadnought is actually the most dangerous for most miners from my observations. It always catches 1 or 2 mates with stomp attack.

[outer cloud]

true, the animation is very quick

[still geode]

dashing away almost always works

[tulip idol]

Ikr but you need to be experienced or trained to keep distance normally, especially with noticeable ping

[eager flame]

New fire track by memtransmute? Sign me up

Aaaaand it's updated

[crude seal]

Can someone help me with the neurotox AC build for DD? i can't really tell whats best for 2nd and 3rd mod slots

[eager flame]

Triple morkite EDD, with a double explosive first stage

Sounds fun

[worthy bolt]

oh great, now i really need to test my VIM because of EDD

also salt pits

roly polies

wait shit

the each deep dive has the same objective for 2 missions

[outer cloud]

i run 3 and 1 on those slots and it seems to work well enough

[worthy bolt]

mini mules and dreads

[crude seal]

ok awesome ty, thats what ive been running but wanted to get another opinion

[coarse wharf]

23322

[crude seal]

does the extra damage make a good difference w everything?

[coarse wharf]

gimme a bit, busy with work

x_x

[crude seal]

np! take whatever time you need

[grim wadi]

oboi, the haz 5 modded version of DD is gonna be work

EDD might not be so bad

[still geode]

i expect DD to have a ton of nitra

[gray patrol]

Got a video of some recent leaks from the recent dev stream, do you know where I can post it on this discord?

[burnt sandal]

#wiki-related-chatroom

or you just wait for the devs to share it in #community-and-server-announcements

[gray patrol]

Thanks👍

[arctic plover]

This EDD doesn’t sound too tough

What’s the catch?

[dense pebble]

stage 2 with elite threat and mini mules is kinda hard

if your gunner doesn't know to shield before people go down, you'll be pinned in place while elites annihilate you

[arctic plover]

I’ve found that mini mules is a very speed runable objective

[coarse wharf]

short answer is yes, RoF doesn't really help since you don't wanna be spamming NTP anyways

the extra damage is always welcome

[crude seal]

ahh okok makes sense

would accuracy be good for slot 2 for tagging farther ones?

[coarse wharf]

AC is inaccurate in general, don't worry about it

[crude seal]

fair enough

[waxen terrace]

ask the driller to make room

[dense pebble]

the team I was with was inexperienced, didn't work out

[placid musk]

is the edd really easy

the dd was

[waxen terrace]

its hard if your driller and gunner is inexperienced

[placid musk]

well ntp steamrolled but still

[placid musk]

cave gen?

how many elites tho

last week's elite threat was ez

[waxen terrace]

cramped as fuck

also its salt pits, so plenty of rollers

[placid musk]

oh it's one of those salt pit edds

[placid musk]

so rollers + elites = shit on the fan

ah ok

[placid musk]

crspr/sludge still good?

[grim wadi]

ah rolly bois, bane of my existense as a cryo driller

[placid musk]

run sludge

[grim wadi]

yeah might do

[placid musk]

but sludge is even worse against rollers XD

crspr it is then

[grim wadi]

slows em down at least iirc

[placid musk]

doesn't volatile guts nullify exploders XD

[waxen terrace]

EDD stg 2 isn't volatile guts

only stg 1

[placid musk]

isn't stage 1 exploders + guts

[waxen terrace]

yes

[placid musk]

yeah

[waxen terrace]

but stage 2 is the tricky one

[placid musk]

as always

what's the hard part

will bulks spawn

[cunning crown]

tehres 1 in the first mission

[placid musk]

if there's no bulk spawns in stage2 i will bunker

if pussy strat wins the game i will use the pussy strat

[cunning crown]

im doing stage 2 rn

ill let you know when im done

[placid musk]

ah ok

[cunning crown]

the uplink is in a stupid spot

[placid musk]

XD

i see the driller part

[cunning crown]

we dont have one

couldve used you xd

stage 2 done

no deto

didnt even see an oppressor

[turbid dawn]

why?

[charred citrus]

Uh guys

Lost my first ever deep dive on solo

Because a piece of aquarq traveled into the backrooms (nocliped into the floor) while bosco was holding it and i ordered him to do something else

Also there was not a single one more which is as usual you get a little more than the necessary quota

It wasn't the case here

I was on the 3rd stage

Ffs is this usual?

[grim wadi]

yeah he does that if there happens to be anything occupying the same space as you order him to toss it to you (like him clipping around terrain etc)

[dusky mauve]

if stuff clips through the floor itll usually spawn somewhere else

[grim wadi]

also that

[charred citrus]

Dug a bunch of holes towards the bedrock and also searched the whole place like 10 times

If it respawns means the map gen went bukunkodunk

[coral pond]

did you see it anywhere on the terrain scanner?

[charred citrus]

He was mid air. Maybe because of low end pc and low graphics i didn't notice him being in some object

[charred citrus]

Nop

[coral pond]

weird

[charred citrus]

I don't wanna blame devs in no way

It's just wierd that shit like this happens ti me in every game

And my first ever deep dive on the third stage none the less

[dusky mauve]

just check the terrain scanner if you havent

it should respawn on accessible terrain

[charred citrus]

Happened this afternoon

And i checked it a thousand times as i went through the 5 stages of denial

Btw

Im green but not that green dude i leveled up all dwarfs to 25 before promoting

So you know i checked that trainscanner 10000 times

[dusky mauve]

this happens to me every now and then if I toss smth out of a hole and climb through it the same time as the object passes where I am and it decides to just squish through the floor

always just popped out the ground near me tho

[charred citrus]

That's what i think

I believe it did and map gen just didn't give me more than 6 aquarqs

[charred citrus]

Things is

I told bosco to drop it and come mine nitra

Then daw the glow go through the floor a

And go down

Maybe it dropped and slipped unto the surface under the minehead

[dusky mauve]

hmm mightve been too far away for it to still register

[charred citrus]

Maybe it went to backrooms

Yea

[dusky mauve]

not sure if deeprock keeps all things "loaded" at all times

[charred citrus]

Possibly not

Could it be me lowering the grapchis to -1?

And game got stupid somewhere in that?

[mossy finch]

Are weekly deep dive levels and modifiers picked by the devs or are they just random?

Just out of curiosity

[zenith ember]

random

[amber moon]

E

[steel python]

Oh wow, the EDD this week isn't terrible

Volatile guts overrides the exploder infestation by making the bugs pop instantly

[oak dirge]

this EDD aint no joke

[hollow patio]

i am so sad, I couldn't complete the edd last week because I kept getting DCed

[inner rover]

Last stage of edd was annoying with the tight corners but fairly ez week

[oak dirge]

2 was the worst IMO

[scenic jetty]

edd was quite peaceful ngl

[thorn relic]

im trying to finish it in two players with my friend and #2 is wrecking us, the boxes are spawning sometimes even vertically and it's such a nightmare xD

[cloud canopy]

What exactly is this week's elite deep dive? How should one prepare themselves?

Nvm I got it

[scenic jetty]

Btw does slow down stack? Let’s say you driller corrosion shot, turret arcs and neurotoxin from revolver

[tulip idol]

Sure, it all multiplies the same stat which then affects movement speed. That stat is 1 initially for most enemies, then it goes down with status effects that modify it, where 0 would be no speed at all

Although I recall it's separate for penalties and environmental penalties as separate types of slowdowns, but I haven't heard or seen anything that would make a difference off that for bugs

Note that Trawler can't be slowed down because it simply doesn't have the component to store these stats-modifiers inside, though you can see status effect gets applied and there's an appropriate icon as supposed to be

[low plover]

Just beaten EDD which I hosted, but Scout got disconnected a step before getting to pod and wrapping the final stage for him 😭

If you're here, buddy, I hope you will make it to the end at next attempt without such surprises, you did awesome job. Take a virtual Blackout Stout from me
About EDD itself, it was challengeful, but otherwise everything went smoothly. Imo the worst stage was the second one when you try to enter the main room but its shape and all pre-spawned enemies will jump on you

[heavy girder]

EDD was easy. Stage 1 was a simple morkite mission with the black box in the first room. Stage 2 was tricky, and defending the uplink can get wonky, but otherwise is manageable. Stage 3 is secretly a 400 Morkite mission as the cave is long

Also a Hiveguard spawned for me on the second wave of Stage 3, so fun :^)

[scenic verge]

Any tips for someone attempting to do edd solo as a gunner?

[still geode]

be liberal with shield usage, you generally have excess nitra in DD/EDD (especially so when solo, you have the same amount of nitra but you have fewer enemies to deal with)

make sure to check your ceilings for nitra too, you can get there with ziplines, if you find yourself struggling with ziplines you may want to try switching between the ammo and zipline angle mods if you need to do multiple attempts

[fickle lance]

I HATE GLYPHID SWARMERS I HATE GLYPHID SWARMERSI HATE GLYPHID SWARMERSI HATE GLYPHID SWARMERSI HATE GLYPHID SWARMERSI HATE GLYPHID SWARMERS I HATE GLYPHID SWARMERSI HATE GLYPHID SWARMERS

Literally everyone was downed and the driller clutched onto the drop pod

[scenic verge]

Amen, i try to habe thorns cause of them when i can spare the perk

[scenic verge]

Copy, ty brother

[fickle lance]

I was playing gunner and didn't have enough ammo for every single one of them

It felt like they kept coming and coming

[scenic verge]

Felt that, time to practice the timing of your pickaxe

[fickle lance]

For every one I smacked 10 more bit me

lol

[scenic verge]

Yeah thats a thorn moment

[coral pond]

trusting in thorns for that will get you killed, as it has a delay between activations

[indigo yarrow]

How hard is the deep dive

This week

[coral pond]

the normal deep dive? it's pretty easy. High single target damage with a dash of swarm clear will get you through it pretty easily

[indigo yarrow]

What about the elite deep dive

[coral pond]

haven't touched that one myself yet but with only 1 dread and no caretaker, swarm clear focused with a dash of single target should ease it up somewhat

[bold gyro]

Hello, probably a dumb question, but are you able to claim rewards for both the regular deep dive and the elite deep dive in one week?

[coral pond]

yes

only once per each

[dense sage]

yep yep
your weekly core hunt, dd, and edd each provide 3 opportunities for cores (blank, weapon, cosmetic) in that order
so 9 total opportunities refreshed every week

[coral pond]

and then you get another 3 any time you promote

[arctic plover]

EDD IS NOT CHILL

IT IS NOT A WALK IN THE PARK

[dense sage]

baited by the morkite heeheehoohoo

[outer cloud]

bring it on i say!

[arctic plover]

<-- Clueless

[boreal ibex]

You a fan of swarmers?

[fickle lance]

Not on haz 5

[boreal ibex]

Haz 6 it is. I’ll mod your game and make it only swarmers

[fickle lance]

[outer cloud]

i like swarmers when it's a swarmer swarm

too easy to deal with lol

if you're running low on ammo/nitra it feels like a blessing

[desert lynx]

wow this week's deep dive is tough

edd

not dd

[wheat dew]

my beard is prolly just too green yet, but for me it's almost certified -90% of hp

[outer cloud]

if you play solo a lot it's probably different, my friend plays driller 99% of the time and it makes them trivial

just camp in a tight space and let them come

[analog granite]

is that disconnect bug fixed from last week edd?

[woeful garden]

What are u guys toughts on edd this week?

[zenith ember]

Fixed

[zenith ember]

Much easier than most previous ones

[woeful garden]

Must be a walk in the park then

But that classic dread on haz 5.5 oof

[zenith ember]

I cleared it w 3 sub 50 greenbeards w no issues so yeah

That dread wasnt much issue with that flat terrain + nitra from 2nd stage

[woeful garden]

Oh nice then

So, just not get caught on the stomp attack?

[zenith ember]

Ig

You have the whole spawn area to play with

After that its just a normal morkite mission

If you have dark morkite it's even faster because both the box at stage 1 and dread on stage 3 are at spawn

But i didnt meet any bulks like others

[outer cloud]

true chad move is to get pots of gold for every deep dive

and not leave even a speck of gold behind

[zenith ember]

Also if you have a driller and he is perceptive enough, he can drill straight into 2 or 3 mini mules near the spawn

Instead of taking the entire tunnel

[vestal thunder]

Heyo Miners, I was wondering if you could recommend me a good grenade for engineer
My loadout so far is loki with 3 lock explosion oc,breach cutter with more ammo and Gemini turrets
I tend to have a bit of ammo issues with my loki, but that's mostly because I don't change my weapons that often
Which grenade would fit for that problem?

[zenith ember]

Thats alot of swarm clear

[vestal thunder]

Would it be wiser to focus on single target damage with one weapon

[zenith ember]

In a way breach doubles as a single target with how much dmg it deals, ecr is fine too

Not sure what you are lacking that nades can cover tbh, all 4 are good regardless of situation

Lure compliments ecr and breach really well, plasma gives you instant burst dmg, proximity can cover your back/defend and ssg for smaller stuff to save a bit of ammo(prob weakest choice)

[outer cloud]

i run cycle overload shotty with turret whip double turrets + hyperprop gl and pretty much any grenade works

imo the big boys are what causes wipes and engi burst damage is unrivalled

[vestal thunder]

I guess it's lure for offensive missions and mine for defensive ones

[zenith ember]

Sounds good, though prob try them out too

Ssg may be pretty good against swarmmageddon but there's also the argument of too much swarm clear

[swift heron]

you really just want to use ssg all around its the best engineer grenade by far, the issue with your build isnt the build per say its just you're not balancing ecr with the cutter enough

[outer cloud]

ssg is very chill, that's the best part

you throw one and forget about it

[swift heron]

it'd help to just switch to a secondary with more ammo to make you switch to it more

[zenith ember]

yeah ssg is a good throw and forget, but id lean on lure with his setup

[swift heron]

almost any shard build (especially VIR) or RJ PGL would help out, or disciple with ecr use

[outer cloud]

breach cutter is op as shit with ammo build, i can't even use it anymore

it's really boring

[zenith ember]

yeah but pgl and shard is fun too, all 3 are hard to pick 1 out from

[swift heron]

i mean fun is pretty subjective but if it comes to whats best its pretty easy to just pick shard

its not even close

[outer cloud]

always have ammo problems with shard if i play with a big group

maybe i am just using it wrong

[swift heron]

most likely yeah

shard is one of the few weapons where taking ammo vs damage is a good idea though

it has kinda low base ammo but with 400 its more than enough

[outer cloud]

i've tried ammo mods and efficiency tweaks but it's still annoying

it's alright with a small group though

i've got to say though, shard feels very good on salvage operations when you enter those huge caves and you see a ton of spitballers etc.

and just delete them from far away

[swift heron]

shard feels good just about anywhere :p

[vestal thunder]

I'll try to take these pointers into my next builds
I'd have to farm a few deep dives to get the shard ocs

[zenith ember]

honestly breach is fine, borderline op even

[swift heron]

do keep in mind though you can still keep the one you're using breach is still good on its own

it really comes down to just managing switching weapons more

[outer cloud]

yeah breach is awesome even with no ocs

[swift heron]

just that if you find that hard to do use a secondary with more ammo

[outer cloud]

did my first EDD with no oc breach cutter and it was a breeze

[vestal thunder]

I'll take that into consideration!
Thank you for your input

[woeful niche]

shard is fun but generally speaking it def isn’t as broken as breach cutter

[swift heron]

cutter wishes it was half as good as shard

[woeful niche]

the main thing shard and pgl have over bc is range

when you have flat terrain or make good use of bug repellent, you can make pretty great use of it’s insane dmg and infinite pierce

I will say tho that shard has much more impactful ocs. VIR is imo one of engis most broken ocs

[swift heron]

range and ammo and damage

like breach cutter is a good weapon no doubut

it's still worse than shard in basically every way

[woeful niche]

ammo and dmg is debatable

lol no

[swift heron]

nah not really

cutter is tight on ammo compared to shard

[woeful niche]

lower ammo amount does not equal lower ammo efficiency

breach cutter is one of the highest damage per shot weapons with no oc and can cleave through an infinite amount of bugs

[swift heron]

i'm not really sure why no oc matters here?

[woeful niche]

well with ocs i’d say it heavily depends

[swift heron]

the damage cutter does is alright but it's not significant unless there's a big enemy that the cutter doesn't kill in one shot anyways

[woeful niche]

what?

[swift heron]

like it's not close how much more expensive it is to use cutter vs shard or pgl to deal with trash mobs

[woeful niche]

why wud it matter if it dies in one shot

just shoot again

[outer cloud]

how, you run mag size + ammo + light-weight cases on breach cutter

that's a ton of ammo

[swift heron]

aren't you pointing out about the ammo economy thing?

i'm being comparative here

[woeful niche]

shard and bc both need about a mag to kill a prat for ex, the only difference being bc can hit the prat and everything near it

[swift heron]

inferno is a bit better than lwc but its still less than shard

[swift heron]

i'm not talking about the praet example here, i'm talking about mobs that cutter can kill with one shot

[woeful niche]

which ocs are we comparing

[swift heron]

i'm thinking just keep the best ocs in mind?

so lwc inferno VIR overdrive

lwc is better on dread missions ig but not much else

[outer cloud]

breach cutter is better if you want to stay mobile and want to kill things on your face quick, even better with stun mod which can stop praetorian breaths etc.

[woeful niche]

ok so if we are only doing those i see them being a lot more equal but i def wudnt say bc is worse

[swift heron]

i'm curious why would you think other ocs matter

[woeful niche]

overdrive is less comparable to bc cus it is focusing entirely on single target

[swift heron]

for reference keep in mind using these ocs where they shine best

[woeful niche]

cus i like to compare weapons overall when you say something like “shard is straight up better then bc”

[swift heron]

for lwc and overdrive its with dreads and sabo in mind

ah its just i dont see the value on looking at suboptimal ocs

[woeful niche]

well ofc shard does a bit better in sabo

[desert lynx]

did anyone else get a nemesis on the last stage of dd?

[swift heron]

i meant using the best ocs in said mission

shard does better in any mission vs cutter :p

like on non dread/sabo its VIR for shard and overdrive otherwise and lwc for dread on cutter and inferno otherwise

[desert lynx]

or actually it could be second to last but I don't remember

the dd was easy compared to the edd

[outer cloud]

eh i just go hyperpropellant on sabo

[swift heron]

hyper is too popular for how mid it is on sabo tbh

def the go-to choice for dreads though

[outer cloud]

i like oneshotting patrol bots

[swift heron]

its just so bad on everything else compared to the other two though

slower on the caretaker fight, worse at fighting the non patrol bot machines

worse at defending hack-c

[outer cloud]

i could see the advantage in shard if you are playing solo but with full group i can just trust gunner and driller to kill the big groups

[swift heron]

doesn't feel like a waste to use a shot on random machines for starters

but both shard and cutter ignore the machines shield and overheat them before they open up

they're far better at the caretaker fight too

though funnily enough on solo hyperprop can claim to OHKO the vents

[woeful niche]

again i don’t really agree entirely. If we are comparing the best let’s look at Vir vs inferno in terms of swarm clear and versatility.

Both ocs can do swarm clear very well while having the capacity to do single target. The difference is that bc has much higher ttk against things up close that are immediately a threat, with stun to briefly cc things that don’t immediately die. It also has dmg high single target dps that can be applied to multiple enemies, like prats clumped up for ex.

For VIR, it def can have much higher efficiency vs swarms due to heat spread. It also has a much large range it can kill hordes at. It’s decent at single target too since theirs no reason not to build for that, but it relies on shooting an electrocuted bug to really have comparable dps imo. It also isn’t as fire and forget. I can shoot inferno once at a spitballer then go do something else knowing it will die, which shard can’t really do for it’s single target.

Basically i typed all of this out to say i don’t think one is strictly better then they other. They have strengths and weaknesses but are both exceptionally strong. The difference comes down to preference and mission type mostly

[outer cloud]

can we all agree that fat boy is a meme though

[swift heron]

yeah fat boy sucks

[outer cloud]

most overrated oc of all time

[woeful niche]

i love fat boy

[swift heron]

for the spitballer thing though for every scenario you get to kill a spitballer quickly with cutter there's one you can kill it from far away with shard

they perform pretty much the same in that

also don't take dmg vs electrified enemies the slow on t5 is much better

which ofc also makes the shard a lot better at holding praets down in place

cutter's one significant advantage is it kills one weak enemy a bit faster

where shard has more ammo, range and versatility

[woeful niche]

breach cutter has better attention economy. If i go into a room with 3 spitballers on escort or something, i can shoot inferno at each one very quickly and they will all die. With shard you wud need to do the same for each one very slowly

[swift heron]

how often does a room with 3 spitballers spawn though? and close enough for you to cutter all of them?

the common case is one spitballer and that's on one mission type

[woeful niche]

naw, slow is useless when ur not directly hitting hordes imo

[outer cloud]

and one more advantage with breach cutter: you can kill stuff behind walls

[swift heron]

for every salvage cave i enter there's one i can shoot with shard from far away

it's the same thing

[outer cloud]

has helped me plenty of times

[swift heron]

i mean don't hit the hordes with the beam

use the magma

you really only focus guards and above with the beam

in which case slow is a lot better

[woeful niche]

ofc but then why are u taking slow lol

[swift heron]

bc it's good?

[woeful niche]

ig thats more preference. Hydrogen does require a primary that electrocutes so you can’t pair it with everything

[swift heron]

i mean considering how lok is far better than the other two you always have that around but i still think its a lot worse than slow

[woeful niche]

i’d def say take hydrogen with ecr

probably slow if using exec

[swift heron]

we really just be on opposite camps

[woeful niche]

if you go into high haz modded lobbies, both VIR and bc generally are considered very strong

it really is just preference

[swift heron]

i don't think bc is weak at all

i just think shard is just better than it

[woeful niche]

again i don’t get why ur saying it’s better when your only using one oc lol

[swift heron]

like if we just look at them on their own they're just both busted as hell

[outer cloud]

meanwhile i think bc needs a slight nerf lol

[woeful niche]

meh i don’t mind bc being this busted

[swift heron]

dont see why it needs any nerf

[woeful niche]

i’d rather pgl get it’s ammo pool buff to make it more comparable to the other options without ocs

[outer cloud]

engi is good enough as it is, strongest class imo

i don't think a tiny nerf would hurt

[swift heron]

i mean nerf things doesnt make anything fun

[woeful niche]

pgl has a very large discrepancy beteeen having no ocs and having them

[swift heron]

engi has the best combat but it pays a good price for it as its slower than both driller and scout by a good bit

[woeful niche]

rj250 literally doubles ur ammo, gives a faster reload, and a get out of jail card

[swift heron]

its fair to have that balance

[outer cloud]

single turret needs a buff though

[woeful niche]

wdym by best combat

[outer cloud]

no reason to use it

defender system + gemini is just too good

[swift heron]

easiest/fastest time with dealing with any scenario by itself

engi is just unmatched when it comes to that

[woeful niche]

i think gunner is also a pretty good pick for versatility

he also has all of the most busted ocs in the game kek

[swift heron]

i think gunner lets you get away with doing bad calls for being fast thanks to the shield but the combat is worse than engi id say

[outer cloud]

i don't think the single turret even oneshots swarmers with defender system

[woeful niche]

well since you said we shud only talk about best in slot when making comparisons. I don’t think engi can beat, hellfire, vb, minelayer or ntp

those are all of the best ocs in the game

[swift heron]

eh hellfire ls is better than any of these id say

[woeful niche]

what

[swift heron]

and still worse than the given engi set for the missiong

[woeful niche]

minelayer is the single most broken oc in the game

[swift heron]

yeah hard disagree

[woeful niche]

then you disagree with most ppl on this server lol

[swift heron]

that makes me feel like i'm extra right lmao

[woeful niche]

triple dmg and 1.5x aoe with stun is insane

[swift heron]

i don't think its better than ls hellfire though

[woeful niche]

also vb is the single highest single target dps in the game

[swift heron]

i think vb cost is too high

[woeful niche]

what

[swift heron]

running vb means you're not running hellfire

[woeful niche]

they aren’t really comparable

[swift heron]

they do different things for sure but they're direct competitors

[woeful niche]

ye and their both busted so how is engi better for combat overall better

he’s competing with 4 busted ocs + a class with explosive resist and shields

[outer cloud]

i don't like vb lol but then again i don't play modded

[woeful niche]

i don’t like using vb outside of modded much, it feels like cheating

[swift heron]

i mean engi has overdrive VIR ecr exec

[woeful niche]

you one shot everything and ur scout can’t do much

[swift heron]

4 busted ocs, turrents and better grenades

[woeful niche]

4 ocs turrets?

[swift heron]

uh put a period there

i'm bad a typing

[severe finch]

Above haz2, it does not one shot.
It really needs a buff

[woeful niche]

those are all really good but i don’t think they are nearly as op as gunners. I don’t think any of those need a nerf but ntp minelayer, vb and hellfire def do

[swift heron]

i don't think any of them need a nerf

[woeful niche]

it doesn’t, it really shud tho

[severe finch]

Minelayer needs a nerf?

[swift heron]

in fact i'm hard pressed to buy using any of these besides hellfire

[woeful niche]

the difference is that bringing ntp and minelayer on a mission compared to engis ocs is that they make most haz 5 missions noticeabley easier

[severe finch]

I mean I understand VB, that one is why Geneva Conventions exist, but why Minelayer

[swift heron]

just taking hellfire LS just has gunner be crazy good on any mission

[woeful niche]

ye hellfire is strong

but so is ntp kek

ur basically untouchable with fear spam and infinite ammo

[swift heron]

does ntp really accomplish much besides having the crazy ammo though

it doesnt kill things particularly fast

it's not like you'd die without bugs being feared

[woeful niche]

yes, it makes your driller cry cus no swarm ever reaches him

[swift heron]

hellfire can even fear bugs

[outer cloud]

i don't like ls except on escort, gimme a little more oomph on other missions

[woeful niche]

thinking ntp isn’t a broken af is an insane take

and i don’t think ntp is even nearly as busted as minelayer

[swift heron]

i mean i don't see what ntp does besides having huge ammo

it's not fast at killing things it just keeps them away

but killing them is the same thing

[outer cloud]

ntp sucks if your team keeps shooting the bugs

[swift heron]

you technically don't die with ntp if you die with other ocs ig?

but then you just need to get better

ntp is way too overrated

[woeful niche]

fear + neurotoxin that increases the duration of the fear means that no swarm will ever reach you if you are even remotely confident. It such a busted oc that most modded players consider it overkill on haz 6x 2

[swift heron]

yeah they won't reach you but so what if they do

its not like you die if a bug bites you once

ntp has a huge ammo and thats about it

other ocs kill the enemies close to you

[woeful niche]

so ur just gonna ignore that it’s stronger and say “well it’s not strong just use something not broken” lol

don’t u think the fact ntp stops the need for kiting is a little nuts

[woeful niche]

doesn’t matter cus you’ll still have infinite ammo and immortality

[swift heron]

i'm saying its not that strong bc its not accomplishing something that you wouldnt have otherwise

[woeful niche]

yes because haz 5 isn’t hard

you don’t need ntp to make haz 5 feel easy, but bringing ntp is basically a gg vs the bugs

ntp / minelayer + hellfire means ur driller is out of a job

[swift heron]

reading that just doesnt make sense to me

i'd sure hope they arent out of a job lol

if theres nothing to kill get the objective done

[woeful niche]

youv never played driller in a lobby with a good ntp player then

[swift heron]

i dont think ive ever seen anyone use ntp? though i dont play much multi

[woeful niche]

if you don’t think there’s a problem with one oc doing the work of 4 teammates idk what to tell you

[swift heron]

i'm out of experience to say that one ntp removes all the bugs 4 people can kill

[woeful niche]

there aren’t a lot of things the community agrees shud be nerfed, but ntp is pretty much universally known as THE fun killer

[swift heron]

yeah cant say i buy that using ntp doesnt feel any better than using any other gunner primary

[woeful niche]

well if u only play solo no shit ntp doesn’t feel that strong. Haz 5 solo doesn’t have that many bugs to begin with

[woeful niche]

are u using fear

[swift heron]

no i play multi every now and then but i'm not NA so i dont get a lot of joiners

[outer cloud]

i've definitely had haz 5 games with randoms where i felt like i could've been better served by minigun than ntp, granted they were still quite green but regardless

[swift heron]

yeah with fear and the good stuff

[woeful niche]

like in what scenerio

[swift heron]

this also just feels like it defeats the point of ntp too

like if the bad players cant use it to great effect what does it accomplish

[woeful niche]

if a player is dieing with ntp, switching weapons ain’t gonna help them lol

[outer cloud]

just nobody being able to handle menaces, rival bots etc.

they can kill grunt swarms alright but fall apart with those

[woeful niche]

well fair, it’s not the best for literally everything obvously. It does however free ur team to almost completely ignore aoe

plus gunner does have a secondary for single target still ya know

[outer cloud]

like i just wished i had minigun + hellfire or something

[coarse wharf]

tbh, NTP handles all of your AoE needs, your secondary can handle single targets

Six Shooter Bulldog, Compact Mags BRT7 are pretty good, for example

[swift heron]

ls hellfire just really covers everything

[woeful niche]

hellfire doesn’t do single target

[coarse wharf]

AoE, not great for single-targets

[swift heron]

yeah ls takes care of that

[coarse wharf]

same wavelength, ye boi

[woeful niche]

lsls + hellfire is probably more well rounded then ntp + lead spray or something else. But that doesn’t mean both ocs aren’t ludicrously op

[swift heron]

i mean sure ntp good and all idk if it needs a nerf though

heck ls hellfire even has this nice thing where you dont ever need to switch loadouts with gunner ever

[outer cloud]

compact mags brt is better than lead spray in most situations imo

[woeful niche]

really? you don’t think the fact it makes all other ac builds laughable in comparison is a problem

[swift heron]

it just slays any mission any warning

[swift heron]

nah not really all weapons in this game have a very clear ''2-3 best ocs'' and the rest you use if you wanna have fun

[woeful niche]

ye compact mags isn’t bad but u lose out on dps. Mostly preference

[outer cloud]

i use lead spray on elimination but that's just because i can get up close

[coarse wharf]

I am not sure which would take more work, nerfing NTP to level with other AC OCs, or buffing up AC OCs to be competitive with NTP

[swift heron]

ntp big bertha for ac ig? even if you nerf both you just create a new area where one is gonna be the best

[woeful niche]

but in this case, the best oc is better then most other aoe weapons in the game

[swift heron]

i mean autocannon only really competes with other two weapons

[outer cloud]

but it's shit for dealing with mactera, menaces etc.

[woeful niche]

a bit of both imo. Autocannon (without ntp) has been largely powercrepr by hurricane imo

[woeful niche]

which are both better then it

[swift heron]

and i dont think anyone thinks either the hurricane or the minigun are bad

in fact a lot of people say that ac sucks

[woeful niche]

yes

cus without ntp it kinda does lol

[swift heron]

then i really dont see the problem

[woeful niche]

it’s ok in a vacuum but hurricane does basically everything it can do but better

[swift heron]

i mean thats the case in just about any class isnt it

[woeful niche]

naw

[swift heron]

theres always a winner

[woeful niche]

in terms of weapons? not really

[swift heron]

the ac with big bertha aint bad on its own even if its outclassed so whats the problem with that

shit like the stubby is far more concerning id say

needing a buff

[outer cloud]

dunno how to build it though

[coarse wharf]

err... Subata...

[swift heron]

yeah that too

[coarse wharf]

😐

[woeful niche]

i’m mostly referring to ac’s bread and butter aoe builds

[woeful niche]

stubby isn’t that bad

just of oc

[swift heron]

i mean they're all worse than bertha except for ntp right

[coarse wharf]

M1K on Scout still has GK2 and DRAK pretty beat tbh

[swift heron]

how are they the bread and butter

[swift heron]

now thats a hot take

stubby is fucking awful

[woeful niche]

without ocs sure

[swift heron]

with or without it blows

[woeful niche]

but it’s for discharge and em refire

[outer cloud]

turret em discharge stubby rules wut

[coarse wharf]

EM Discharge is pretty stupid good

lots of free damage

[swift heron]

thats a lot of copium ngl

[coarse wharf]

and even if your turrets are out of ammo, you can still proc EM Discharge

[woeful niche]

em discharge locks down a choke very well and em refire is a very nice alternative to shotty

[ember trellis]

Im doing dd is there anything important i should know as in are there any major modifiers or stuff like that?

[outer cloud]

you can basically hold entire escort duty tunnel by yourself

[swift heron]

yeah just like almost any other engi weapon

[coarse wharf]

If you know how to funnel bugs to your turrets with Platform Repellent, EM Discharge is ridiculously strong

[swift heron]

except save for the warthog they dont need to put turrets

[outer cloud]

but it uses barely any ammo

[woeful niche]

if u were around before s1, literally tons of engis used discharge cus you cud shoot unbuilt turrets

now it’s harder to use but still very effective

[coarse wharf]

EM Discharge is extremely ammo efficient, and your turrets don't become completely useless once they run out of ammo

[outer cloud]

and it's still ridiculous even with that nerf

[swift heron]

oh that sounds good, wasnt around for that

its pretty weak now though

[woeful niche]

ye just requires bug repellent knowledge and some decent situational awareness

[swift heron]

like anything that just requires you to set turrets to get anything done its way too slow

[woeful niche]

so why aren’t u complaining about hog

[coarse wharf]

ehehehehe... I set up my turrets no problem tbh

can just set one, don't need to set two

[swift heron]

oh i think the warthog sucks ass too its just not as bad as the stubby

[woeful niche]

a lot of hogs power comes from whip

lol what

[coarse wharf]

and Turret Whip is reliant on turret ammo too, don't forget about that

[hoary bay]

Lmao

[coarse wharf]

if you have less than 5 ammo in the turret, it won't trigger Whip

[swift heron]

the warthog is a terrible stubby defense its another bad gun

just not as bad

[woeful niche]

ur think it’s bad cus your using exec and ecr

[zenith ember]

I thought hot takes are made in drg chat, not here

[swift heron]

they arent really hot takes

[woeful niche]

you said ntp isn’t op lol

[outer cloud]

how do you guys build minelayer, tell me

[hoary bay]

I like the warthog with mini shells and max rof

[outer cloud]

i'm not grey enough yet

[swift heron]

i mean you failed to convice me otherwise

[coarse wharf]

Not even people who run Haz 6 2x lobbies are willing to use NTP lmfao

they think it's way too strong

[woeful niche]

we don’t

it literally is that strong

[coarse wharf]

waste can tell ya that

but I rather not ping him, would let him just read this on his own

and yep, I don't mind using NTP, but I can tell you how safe it makes the entire cave

[swift heron]

the question i really have though is are you dying without it

[coarse wharf]

nope.

[swift heron]

bc if you arent its just a big ammo good gun

which is fine? i dont see why it needs a nerf

[woeful niche]

what about minelayer? near 3x dmg makes the aoe dmg so ridiculous it accidentally becomes good single target

[coarse wharf]

NTP just far outclasses the other AC OCs

I use Big Bertha more, but I can tell you how much safer I can make stuff for my team if I brought NTP

[woeful niche]

ur rebuttal to our arguement is literally “just survive with something not op”. That isn’t a real arguement

i don’t use ntp btw

because it makes the game too easy

gsg balanced that shit for haz 7 bruh

[outer cloud]

ntp is boring and i seem to constantly run into situations where i'd rather have minigun

doing omen is just ass when everyone keeps dying

[coarse wharf]

@outer cloud will send you a screenshot

[coarse wharf]

remember, you have your secondary for that

[outer cloud]

yeah but it just doesn't feel like it's enough sometimes

[coarse wharf]

I get that, yeah, but you gotta make do sometimes

[hoary bay]

I don't like the stubby because it can run out of ammo so fast

[woeful niche]

luckily for you the game also gifted gunner with the almighty lead burster

[swift heron]

my argument is what does ntp bring to the table besides a huge ammo pool and none of what you're saying seens like it needs a particular nerf

[warm canyon]

Lok1 is worse lmao

[swift heron]

i think you're reading my comments as if i'm saying ntp is bad?

[hoary bay]

I don't like either lmao

[coarse wharf]

if I run Driller with CRSPR and Persistent Plasma EPC for OMEN, I would just use my C4s, Axes and TCF shots

[woeful niche]

unmatched levels of cc isn’t a problem? literally de aggro ing the entire cave in like 5 seconds is balanced? bruh

[hoary bay]

I use only minishells

[outer cloud]

ty

[warm canyon]

Eh shotgun

I prefer MPA

[coarse wharf]

well, it clears up bugs really nicely, fear having stupid synergy with neurotoxin, your whole team stays untouched by the bugs

[woeful niche]

ye ideally ur build can handle a bit of everthing on haz 5

[coarse wharf]

it has ridiculous levels of crowd control

if the bugs are no longer feared, shoot at them again and watch them run away

[swift heron]

does it really clears them nicely? it takes forever to kill bugs

it just keeps them away

[coarse wharf]

and bigger targets are much easier to hit since they are slowed down while feared

[swift heron]

i'm not sure how keeping bugs away is any different than just killing them straight up as they come

[coarse wharf]

and yeah, that's the whole point

just kite them and focus on your objectives

[woeful niche]

fear is distance based so ntp increases its duration. By the time the bug aggros , it’s already dead. Oh and did i mention this works at point blank range and not just long distance lol

[coarse wharf]

DRG doesn't have any kill objectives aside from elimination

[swift heron]

yeah but you can just do this regardless of ntp though

[coarse wharf]

NTP makes that a lot easier

really easy

[hoary bay]

I find it interesting that I've never really used any other engi weapons other than the first ones

[swift heron]

thats where i cant say for sure i got ntp as my 2nd to last oc so when i tested it i wasnt having issues with the game anymore

[woeful niche]

give loki a try. It takes some getting used to but it’s very strong a fun imo

[swift heron]

idk if that strenght is something that needs a nerf though, which is the general argument

[hoary bay]

I did but same issue

Ammo is gone so fast

[coarse wharf]

well, I would say that the other AC OCs could use a buff

[outer cloud]

what about breach cutter?

[swift heron]

yeah that i dont disagree with

[coarse wharf]

NTP could be brought down a slight smidge

I want all options to be competitive, after all

[swift heron]

thats not really doable though

[hoary bay]

Last weapon I unlocked I never even touched it 💀

[woeful niche]

vb and hellfire are also busted

[swift heron]

with every gun having at least 5 ocs

[hoary bay]

I want to tho

[coarse wharf]

yeah, Volatile Bullets heavily dictate current modded meta

[woeful niche]

the gap between ntp and the other ac builds is bigger then any others weapons tho

like it turns the game into a point and click adventure game

[swift heron]

i'm not really sure why does that matter if the gap disappears once you get good enough

in fact the other ocs can feel better if you're not dying without NTP for scenarios like bertha vs big enemies

[outer cloud]

dont use breach cutter its gonna ruin you lol

[woeful niche]

i can use this arguement for literally anything

[lime meteor]

I'm not sure you know busted ntp is

[woeful niche]

why use (insert good oc)? just get good at the game lol

[swift heron]

not really? i think the vast majority of good ocs in the game are good bc they kill things fast

[lime meteor]

it's a top 2 OC for a reason

[woeful niche]

you are heavily undervaluing cc

[swift heron]

i'm not sure i get why people say ntp is that good either

[woeful niche]

a bug that has neuro + fear is already dead

[coarse wharf]

there is a reason why Sticky Fuel follows a very similar logic for being really good, for example

[woeful niche]

it is destined to die and is 0 threat to the team

[outer cloud]

how do cryo and sludge compare in haz 6x2?

[coarse wharf]

CRSPR is busted

[swift heron]

so is a bug that gets killed by an extra shot of bertha though?

[coarse wharf]

don't need to focus on the bug as much

[swift heron]

like i think you're overvaluating ntp a lot on the hands of anyone that has gone out of beginner status

[coarse wharf]

just carpet them a bit, watch for neurotoxin and move on

[woeful niche]

no cus it takes like 3 shots to fear and aggro an entire cluster of bugs lol

[coarse wharf]

2.6 m radius is huge

[swift heron]

talking about solely aoe focus its about the same as one hellfire shot yeah?

[coarse wharf]

except... you would want a single-target secondary if your primary is already doing CC for you

[swift heron]

you could just invert that though

[woeful niche]

again they both wreck swarms

[swift heron]

since hellfire is so good anyways just take it with ls

[coarse wharf]

if you have a good Driller with CRSPR, you could just take VB Bulldog and delete big bugs anyways, if you have good teamplay

[swift heron]

i dont really like thinking about teammates when building

ideally on a team everyone can just carry their own weight

[woeful niche]

bruh for the 30th time, it doesn’t matter. Both builds will destroy haz 5swarms. The only person ik that’s done haz8 x 2 did it with minelayer and hellfire cus otherwise that level of aoe isn’t that needed

[outer cloud]

do you always need a flamethrower driller to use vb properly?

[coarse wharf]

nope

you could run Burning Hell Minigun with Hot Bullets

[woeful niche]

no flamer is strong due to heat spread

[coarse wharf]

and/or Incendiary Grenades

[swift heron]

if it doesnt matter why does it need a nerf its the point though

[woeful niche]

cryo is considered weaker then the other two but can work well in certain comps. Goo is good for cc and with blast or vim can be pretty decent burst

[woeful niche]

because those 4 ocs are miles above the rest

[swift heron]

i can see the other 3 but ntp just feels super overrated

not that i think any of the other 3 needs a nerf though

[woeful niche]

play a haz 5 mission as driller with an ntp gunner and cry as none of the bugs get remotely close to u

[swift heron]

wouldnt that be a good thing though you just get to drill the objective

[coarse wharf]

unless you have Fuel Stream Diffuser with flame reach mod, hehehehe

[woeful niche]

ok do u just not have a problem with insanely broken ocs

[swift heron]

like this thing about assigning roles to a class is just nonsense you just hold your own if there isnt nothing to kill get the mission done

[outer cloud]

can't remember who the guy was but i watched a video of some guy who does 6x2 etc and he said ntp isn't very good, just sounded weird to me

[woeful niche]

i’m not assigning roles

if anything ur the one assigning roles by saying gunner shud be able to solo the entire swarm himself while the other team just does the objective lol

[swift heron]

yeah no you're just putting words for me now

i never mentioned any other class when talking about why ntp doesnt need a nerf

you just brought this driller thing around for what i assume you expect the driller to deal with aoe

[woeful niche]

i think the best part about haz 5 compared to modded is that you can build every class to be very versatile and don’t have to be locked into certain niches. However that also means that ocs that absolutely destroy swarms (or hvts like vb) make the game a lot less fun for other players

[swift heron]

fun is very subjective though?

for me the mission fun is just getting it done as fast as you can

[woeful niche]

most driller builds do tend to be aoe focused tho

[swift heron]

i mean yeah sure

[woeful niche]

it is impossible to build flamer badly for aoe

in fact that is literally it’s entire purpose

it cannot be built for good single target dps

[coarse wharf]

not even with Face Melter

[woeful niche]

so if i bring flamer and an ntp gunner joins, i’m not gonna be able to use my primary, which imo is not fun

[swift heron]

i mean unless they're literally following you around thats just an exagerration

[woeful niche]

Your right fun is subjective, so if u enjoy sitting in a room watching gunner kill everything, then ig ntp doesn’t need to be nerfed

[swift heron]

if they're shooting ntp at x bugs you just go somewhere else get the objective done and bugs will be around you

it feels like you're saying you're not having fun bc you cant kill everything by yourself?

which is lol

ig nerf stick flame is the next step

[woeful niche]

no i’m saying i’m not having fun because i’m not getting the opportunity to kill things

literally the opposite lol

[swift heron]

you absolutely would be able to kill things if you just get away from them

that's a silly exagerration

[woeful niche]

depends on the mission type i suppose

you can always run off and do ur own thing ig

[swift heron]

you can only really stay forced together on doretta i think?

[outer cloud]

ntp does not have to spend a lot of time shooting at bugs though

you just apply neurotoxin and go do whatever

[swift heron]

since running far from it slows it down

[coarse wharf]

exactly

not much need to focus

[outer cloud]

mmost likely the gunner is already following you to objective lol

[swift heron]

isnt that a great thing? the gunner can do one thing of the objective and you do another

[woeful niche]

gunner is probably gonna be with you cus if he’s using ntp you aren’t gonna spend long fighting bugs anyways

[swift heron]

you each go after one egg, repair a different mule, make a different pipeline

[woeful niche]

doesn’t solve the issue of ntp being braindead to use

[swift heron]

i think we'll never see eye to eye bc i dont see why is that a problem

[woeful niche]

i think the problem here is you think low ttk = bad when the fear + slow means that grunt swarms are effectively dead within like 3 bullets

[woeful niche]

so u actually don’t see a problem with op weapons

[outer cloud]

would it be ok if the fear mod was removed

[swift heron]

not at all? let people use what they think its fun

[woeful niche]

i disagree

[swift heron]

yeah i dont see the point of further arguing then

[woeful niche]

i don’t mind some things being stronger then others but i do think some balance is needed

[pliant yoke]

The problem with that is I don't want one person on the team suck out all the fun aspect from shooting bugs

[woeful niche]

Don’t u think it wud be dum if bulldog had a 1000% dmg mod

[swift heron]

refer to a couple messages ago

[swift heron]

i think thats a silly comparison to ntp :p

[woeful niche]

nope cus vb exists

and it’s definitely broken

[pliant yoke]

Like, to which one. I don't agree with what you say, is all

[swift heron]

it requires setting things on fire and it has the downside of not taking hellfire

i think thats enough balance

[woeful niche]

that’s not a real downside lol

[swift heron]

balance, not downside

its enough reason to try to pick something else

[woeful niche]

ur arguements are all over the place

you said balance doesn’t matter but say vb is balanced lmao

[swift heron]

i didnt say it doesnt matter? i think the way it is is balanced enough is all

in fact i'm trying to understand why ntp isnt

like why i should always take ntp over something else

[woeful niche]

you said balance doesn’t matter here

[swift heron]

funny bc i dont see balance in that sentence

you asked if i have a problem with op weapons which i dont

they're really not that o

p

[woeful niche]

um nerfing things that are op is literally the definition of balance

[swift heron]

my issue is more with weak weapons that barely funcion on their own

[outer cloud]

btw i don't care how good or bad it is but i love magic bullets bulldog with neurotoxin explosions

i love shooting in the dark and watch the yellow clouds pop up

[woeful niche]

i think anything that isn’t ntp minelayer or vb is weak

everthing below those 3 ocs is dog shit

[swift heron]

i disagree

you know yourself that's not even close to true

a silly exageration at best

[woeful niche]

nope it’s my subjective opinion

you said we shud only buff weak weapons right

[swift heron]

sure

[woeful niche]

so just buff all weapons to vb dmg

give all weapons a 400% dmg buff

then remove vb

[swift heron]

yeah if you're not bothering to argue in good faith i really dont see the point

[woeful niche]

but wudnt that solve the problem?

according to you

just buff the weaker weapons

exec only does 50% extra dmg, make it 300% like vb and it’s now well balanced right?

[swift heron]

according to what you're perceiving what i'm saying in your exageration sure

you're just being silly though

[woeful niche]

no listen to what i’m saying

there is nothing wrong with vb being op right

so why not just buff exec, or m1, or any other single target dmg oc to the same level to compensate

there wud be no harm right?

[swift heron]

i need to understand why you think you need to buff perfectly functional things

[woeful niche]

those aren’t functional

[swift heron]

or why you're comparing this to vb at all

[woeful niche]

they don’t do vb dmg

i’m using vb as my standard since you said it’s not overpowered

[swift heron]

alright buddy have a wonderful time

[woeful niche]

if vb isn’t overpowered what wud be the harm in buffing everything to it’s standard

it’s almost like only buffing things wud result in the game getting noticeably easier or something

[outer cloud]

damn this was a long convo lol

[hoary bay]

Still discussing stuff?

[outer cloud]

nah

[woeful niche]

minelayer is actually arguably more busted then ntp

there’s a video of someone doing haz 8x2 with minelayer and hellfire i think

[outer cloud]

yeah i'd like to see that

[hoary bay]

What are good breach cutter builds

For swarm clear

[pliant yoke]

LWC/Inferno 21122 for instance

[earnest fox]

spinning death

[oak dirge]

Do you only get overclocks when you complete a deep dive for the first time?

[earnest fox]

u get oc on stage 2 of each dive

[hoary bay]

Yes

[toxic spindle]

every time

[earnest fox]

no need to full complete

[oak dirge]

Wouldnt it be easy to farm OC's then?

[outer cloud]

i go 2112x with light weight cases

[toxic spindle]

per week once

[earnest fox]

^

[oak dirge]

Thats what I meant, thanks :)

[hoary bay]

Generally when I'm making a build ammo lasting long and acc gets highest priority

That's why I think fat boy is kinda bad

[toxic spindle]

fat boy is amazing. but you do need to get lotsa nitra to resupply

[earnest fox]

fat boy is mid af

at best

no ammo, friendly fire from the radiation and terrible economy if u dont hit atleast 20 grunts at once

[toxic spindle]

i really like fat boy but I validate your opinion

[earnest fox]

if u do hit that group though

then damn

[earnest fox]

it might not be the most effective but its fun

that matters

[toxic spindle]

it really felt op to throw a lure nade and then fat boy that shit once a swarm was grouped up

[earnest fox]

ye lure is a requirement

[zenith ember]

Funny enough its viable in this edd due to swarmmageddon

But better options exists

[toxic spindle]

how tf do you smuggle morkite

[earnest fox]

kid named spinning death:

[outer cloud]

fat boy is a false prophet, hyperpropellant is truth

[earnest fox]

rj250.

[outer cloud]

yeah that's the 2nd best

[earnest fox]

because funni shoot teammate to make them fly

funni oc = good

[tall meadow]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/565850434376302613/1106494311312392213/20230512011239_1.jpg?width=1062&height=597

[coarse wharf]

this right here

[tall meadow]

Funny EDD with randoms

[placid blaze]

The normal deep dive stage 2 got me because i went into one room and ran into a massive swarm a spitboi only my second deep dive

[ancient cove]

I always wonder how people fail normal DD. It's just Hazard 3-4

[pliant yoke]

Sometimes people just don’t succeed at things, especially if something is exceeding their normal comfort level

Players comfortably playing Haz 5 are in minority

[ancient cove]

Facts

Even though, playing comfortably in Haz 5 and Haz 3 are different things.
Maybe new players who don't have all the upgrades struggle in Haz 3 or 4. But once you maxed out your Dwarf, have all the Armor, Weapon upgrades and Perks, Haz 3 should be a walk in the Park.
So I just wonder, what exactly are people doing or not doing to struggle there

[pliant yoke]

It’s a combination of things really. From personal observation, I generally know what my shortcomings are, but I think the biggest factor for failure is not learning from one’s mistakes

[coarse wharf]

failed an EDD because some motherfucker in my team decided to double dip

i had no shield to save us from a sudden surge of a swarm

[pliant yoke]

And people don’t really always like playing games to get better at playing them - it all really depends on their needs for having a good time

In my view anyone can succeed in playing DRG well if they put enough time/effort into it, but it’s not always a reward worth chasing in a player’s spectrum of perception

I personally get great joy from learning something new in a certain game’s context or overcoming a challenge, and generally succeeding with things I had second thoughts about (certain quirky load outs, for instance)

I like seeing the skill floor and reaching for the ceiling

[placid musk]

what class

[pliant yoke]

I don’t really think it’s their fault that the expedition ended, but I’ll leave it at that

[placid musk]

dwarven etiquette 101 states to ask before double dipping

[pliant yoke]

Do you have the time, in the midst of stress heavy situation to ask that question, though?

[placid musk]

you absolutely can

[pliant yoke]

I don’t. I just double dip if I need that resupply

[zenith ember]

Its very possible that the players are new to FPS or at a very young age, failing dd is possible

[placid musk]

you never double dip in a swarm

[coarse wharf]

I was Gunner

[placid musk]

and when idle you of course have time to type in chat

[coarse wharf]

the dumbfuck that did it was probably the Scout in my group

[placid musk]

ok yeah that's def a sin

you never ever ever double dip as scout

[still geode]

ive carried missions by eating entire resupplies as scout on escort

so i wouldn't say never

[coarse wharf]

it 100% was

greenbeard scout who had zero clue on what they were doing

running cryo minelets with no blowthrough

even worse, they didn't know how to use it

[pliant yoke]

Consider this: what did you personally fail at that lead to the run ending?

[coarse wharf]

probably a couple of shields that weren't needed

but it would be nice if double dipping was communicated

[dense sage]

there will always be things you can’t control
but it’s better to search for the 1% improvement you can control

[coarse wharf]

yeah, I know

posted my clear in #drg-gallery

[little halo]

Is this week's EDD sponsored by The Abyss Bar or sth. That's a lot of Morkite.

[runic relic]

Jup finally a nice dark morkite run

[low plover]

Morkite mission is the chillest I guess
Unlike Salvage or PE 💀

[coarse wharf]

can get scary since the tunnels are pretty cramped

[worthy bolt]

completed a deep dive solo and got special powder

neat

[woeful niche]

what in the name of phero spam

[still geode]

yep

[bitter hawk]

Wait do you get stuff for completing deep dives solo?

[gusty meteor]

Yes. Just get the rewards once per week though

Doesn't matter if solo or not. You do it once, thats all

[bitter hawk]

Ah, alright.

Ty

[indigo yarrow]

What is the shockwave on the boom stick?

[pliant yoke]

It’s a cone which extends IIRC 5m in front of your gun, and any creature within that cone gets hit for 20 (40 with T4C) damage every time the Boomstick is fired

Primary use for this is to kill swarmers without feeling bad about missing them

[indigo yarrow]

Ok thanks

[pliant yoke]

Also T4C mod is quite bad, so generally you might want to stay away from it (T4A is excellent however, and T4B has one niche use that’s still quite bad)

[ancient cove]

What is going on with EDD. All Missions are Morkite 😲

[sage atlas]

Anyone wanna do a dd with me?

[coral pond]

Bet you would've survived with ntp :)

[ancient cove]

really? EDD is so easy

2/3 missions mining

Dark Morkite is OP in EDD this week

[dense pebble]

EDD was hard for me, my teams kept getting swarmed on the uplink stage 2

Elite threat is really scary

[ancient cove]

sad, I got really good team, just finished

And I was playing Scout

so most shooter were done by the team

[dense pebble]

I did get newer players

So our gunner didn’t know to use shield before someone went down

[ancient cove]

Play Sticky Flames Driller if you want to carry

[dense pebble]

After 4 failures I got pissed and did it solo with swarm control

Technically cheating I know but I was just done

[ancient cove]

oof

[dense pebble]

Also roller bois are annoying

They’re real good at interrupting res

[ancient cove]

No offense, but EDD this is extreme easy. Only sticky points are basically second mission with mini Mules and Elite threats

[dense pebble]

The elite threat was something I wasn’t prepared for

[coral pond]

That's their purpose, being severely disruptive. It makes them high priority targets

[ancient cove]

The rolling boys were small though, went done pretty fast

If someone struggle with EDD, I'll host an 8 players lobby soon

[dense pebble]

If I had time I woulda found a group here and done it legit

Because swarm control may make it easy but it was boring

Praet face is a weakpoint right?

[ancient cove]

The only legit use of swarm control, if you use it to make it harder 😛

[ancient cove]

Face and tail. But I haven't seen big ones this run, which resistant much damage

And small one die pretty fast, even while rolling

[coral pond]

Nope

Just his big green ass

[dense pebble]

Unfortunate

It’d be nice to be able to stun front on because that breath attack is 50 miles wide

[ancient cove]

Actually it is

[coral pond]

The breath attack is his best attack for you to run around and shoot his ass

[dense pebble]

I take a million damage as I do it though

I swear I’ve had it hit me while I’m behind them multiple times

[coral pond]

are you sure about that. Official wiki says differently and i'm almost positive i do more damage to his ass than face

[ancient cove]

I might misunderstood. What is "Praet"? I though we were talking about shell bugs

[grim wadi]

face does more damage than his armor for sure, but i thiiiiiink his ass does a bit more than his face, or its in my head, face and ass hits are pretty close in damage

[dense pebble]

Praetorian

Mb

The roller bois name is too hard to remember I just call them rollers

[coral pond]

His ass is a 1x weakpoint, which means you get the weakpoint bonuses from your gun, assuming it has one, and you don't get it on his head

[dense pebble]

For weapons that stun on weakpoint hits though, does the face work

[ancient cove]

I'm checking the wiki, but I'm also pretty sure Praetorians weakpoint is also face. At least it feels like it

[dense pebble]

Hard to tell with stun cooldown

[coral pond]

If something specifies "on weakpoints", it shouldn't

[ancient cove]

Oppressor has no weakspots in the face

[dense pebble]

Oppressor is stun immune anyway IIRC

[coral pond]

But iirc there's only like 1 gun? That it specifies stun on weakpoint

[grim wadi]

yeah i think its just more damage like if you shredded armor on a mob and then hit it, its not technically a weakpoint

[dense pebble]

there’s a couple

AI stability engine, scout shotty

[coral pond]

Oppressor is fear immune, idk bout stun

[grim wadi]

face is unarmored, so you can hurt it more there, eg: https://deeprockgalactic.wiki.gg/images/d/d4/Glyphid_Praetorian_Umodel_Front.png

[ancient cove]

Oh I see, face isn't the weak point, there is jut no armor

[dense pebble]

Makes sense

[coral pond]

Boomstick stun doesn't specify weakpoint hit

I see what you mean on the gk2 tho, but i don't think it only stunns on weakpoint hits. Just has better odds. Idk exactly though, the wording is a bit ambiguous

[dense pebble]

Mb, Warthog has stun on weakpoints.

Wrong shotty.

I’ve only ever noticed stun on weakpoint hits for GK2, but it could be confirmation bias

[coral pond]

Ahh yeah i see. Huh, never noticed that. Maybe that's part of why stunner is such a good OC, since it removes weakpoint only stun

[still geode]

yeah, and warthog has like a 65% stun chance if all pellets hit since the stun is per pellet, so you get a lot of value from being able to stun no matter where you land your shots

[coral pond]

I should get around to using stunner a bit, mpa and co are just too good and enjoyable

[still geode]

Stunner is my go-to warthog OC, it provides a high degree of safety due to its ability to stun things that are attacking you so frequently while also being a free 30% damage up once enemies do get stunned.

[coral pond]

I like mpa's oneshot consistency on grunts, and co is just super satisfying to magdump into a praet

[fervent rose]

The EDD didn't look that hard, but I have yet to make it past that second stage
Elites on Salvage are a nasty ass combination

Especially since they make bunkering risky to the point of it being useless

[dusk vessel]

Hmm bunkerimg made it pretty easy for me on engi + driller duo

Used cryo cannon and had turrets setup

Was easier than the regular strat 4 player run I did earlier

[jagged rapids]

Running EDD:
#lfg-playstation message

All are welcome

[coral pond]

bunkering makes everything easier when there's no oppressors or bulks

like haz 5 becomes haz 1 in difficulty when you bunker

[dusk vessel]

pretty much lmao

I was being carried by someone really good at EDDs so there was that too

but it felt like just shooting down a corridor for stage 2

[indigo remnant]

deep dives fo today?

[old widget]

pinned messages has latest info

[fervent rose]

I had to walk my team (2 of which were above level 100) through making a bunker lol

And someone managed to open a small hole in the ceiling during a panicky moment, so that got us eventually

Until then it went well, but it can be really bloody hard to recover from getting overrun on Haz 5

[chilly galleon]

was just attempting EDD solo with scout, I was not ready for that heat in the second mission

i got my matrix core though so ill take what i can get

[ruby tree]

A valiant effort.

[coarse wharf]

I was using NTP, but unfortunately, we got rushed really hard with a crap ton of rollers, exploders and other forms of nasty shit

had no shield to relieve pressure

also had shit for ammo too

and the driller didn't do a good job of making room around the fuel cells either

[coral pond]

ah fuck shellbacks

[coarse wharf]

yeah, we got knocked around really damn hard

made it impossible for me to re-supply in time

like, when I tried to call in a new one when we finished setting up the fuel cells, the swarm decided to adopt zerg tactics

I love helping greenbeards, usually, but I got sick of wasting time and decided to just change my lobby description to let them know not to join

and when they refuse to acknowledge that they made a mistake, it really doesn't help their case with me

[coral pond]

yeah sometimes they're too much

[coarse wharf]

and when you have a scout that is completely clueless about Cryo Minelets, they won't be contributing to any crowd control, at all

saw them shoot at a brood nexus normally, not even shooting the floor to freeze it, and they weren't using blowthrough rounds either

[chilly galleon]

noob question, so blowthrough rounds on the m1 is the better option? or is it on a case by case basis

[coarse wharf]

it depends on what you want your M1K to accomplish

single-target - use hollow-point rounds, crowds - use blowthrough rounds

just note that if you use Hipster, you won't be able to kill grunts with 2 body shots

other strong M1K options are Minimal Clips, Hoverclock and Active Stability System

[chilly galleon]

i normally run supercooling so i generally take the body shot damage for big bois

[coarse wharf]

ah, Supercooling Chamber plays heavily into weakpoint damage

[chilly galleon]

but an alturnate build for horde/teamplay is probally needed tbh. didnt think of that before now

[coarse wharf]

then yeah, you have other options

[chilly galleon]

ok ty

[coarse wharf]

and tbh, Scout's horde-clearing is weak compared to the other classes, you could focus on single-target damage in teamplay

Fire Bolt for the Nishanka comes to mind, but good luck doing anything with that when you are near your team, Fire Bolt's strength is mostly seen in solo play

[chilly galleon]

does firebolts proc spread?

or is it just fire dot on a single enemy

cause when ive used it it only seemed to be the latter

[coarse wharf]

Fire Bolt is extremely strong thanks to heat spreading, yes

you shoot the ground and kite bugs around your bolts

once you are done, just kite and let them burn each other to death

very ammo efficient OC

combine with IFG and/or lure the bugs into a chokepoint with Fire Bolts

[coarse wharf]

if you run Nishanka, I suggest between Cryo Bolt (mostly for HVTs)/Fire Bolt (mostly solo swarm clearing)/Specialist (stronger special bolts) OCs, and use Pheromone Bolts as your special bolts

for eliminations tho, Taser Bolts are very good

[pliant yoke]

What about Quick Fire?