#wiki-related-chatroom

1 messages · Page 14 of 1

glacial topaz
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Well,if you generating less
That means you need more to reach max

proper kernel
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And is it equivalent to what's visual, like the 20% T2A, being 20% longer, so 0.6 seconds longer

glacial topaz
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You didnt do wide lens + another heat mod

floral drift
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not confirmed, but it matched the data i was getting in May 2022.

glacial topaz
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I do have to point out the values foster got by counting in game were 1 more than my formula gives
So it might be like floor + 1 instead

glacial topaz
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here
No override: floor(10 * (3.3 / 1.1)) = 30
ROF override: floor(12.5 * (3.3 / 1.5)) = 27
Wide override: floor(10 * (3.3 / 2.2)) = 15
putting all 1 less than the in-game values listed

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(ceiling wouldn't line up btw)

trail gust
glacial topaz
# trail gust

this shows either the bug is fixed, or it never existed in the first place ? not sure what was used to see it as bugged
anyway, the adjusted formula, shows T4A +T2A working as expected

glacial topaz
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do we know how the cooldown works though ? so we can check if the time is matching too

glacial topaz
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did T2C + T4B really used 22 ammo or was it a typo
22 would make it the only outlier from most current formula + understanding
while 21 makes it work, + it is how many shots I can count from the timestamps (following the others patterns)

radiant skiff
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Does DRG use fandom for the wiki or did they move it

acoustic scarab
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The pins might have the answer you're looking for

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We migrated over a year ago

radiant skiff
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Nice

acoustic scarab
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Fandom is still higher is search results, but people are slowly starting to notice it's a garbage dump

radiant skiff
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Thank you wizard claptrap

mystic geode
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@acoustic scarab Is there gonna be images showing all paintjobs? Because currently it only shows the upgrade ones.

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Because I wanted to see what acid wash looked like and couldn't find it.

acoustic scarab
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Filling those galleries is a long and tedious process that noone really has time for. It's in the backlog, but to my knowledge noone is working on that at the moment.

proper kernel
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Someone did a ton earlier this year, but otherwise not much progress lol

tame plover
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I did a few of engineers weapons but I haven't worked on it lately

mystic geode
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But not even close to getting all cosmetics and etc.

glacial topaz
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What kind of testing or confirmtion is missing for colette heating build up ?

glacial topaz
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blistering + t4a is giving 10 shots (1 more than expected) so wonder what is going on for it
just blistering is 18 shots
T2A, 27 shots (1 more)
if it is only a specific mod that is causing differences seems good to check it more

glacial topaz
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going to personally test in game all the 36 variations of heat build up (counting the ammo until overheat)
(3 for T2, 3 for T4 and 4 for OC)

glacial topaz
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helpful to check if a formula can give the same results as in-game tests

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ah great, for some reason t2b + t4a was displayed wronly,
and I might recheck a liquid cooling + T2B

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there we go
the in-game sometimes end up giving 1 or 2 more shots than expected with formula, but around half of them give same value

image.png
glacial topaz
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Considering if making rof be a fixed 50 could help
Or like, if the time to overheat is correct, but shots fired has variation due to other factors

jolly adder
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Is there anywhere I can find out how the fire rate affects the missile build-up on the Salvo module?

glacial topaz
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Wait, it does ?
The salvo section doesnt talk about how quick it loads ?

glacial topaz
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seems it is missing, interesting
then probably nobody knows how it works, if anyone wanna try finding out

floral drift
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so, taking the T3.B RoF seems to decrease the charge time by 0.75 seconds

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that has not been validated by hand-timing. also, it's over 2 years old.

trail gust
floral drift
floral drift
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i spent another 1.5 hours working on understanding Hurricane's Salvo Module last night. i can't claim to have a 100% working knowledge, but i think i've figured out enough to share here.

  • for all projectiles fired when Salvo Module is equipped, they gain an immediate +1 Direct Kinetic damage and +1 Radial Kinetic Damage.
  • for the single-shot projectile that can still be controlled by manual guidance, it appears to have a hidden -2 Direct Damage penalty. furthermore, they also benefit from the partial charge of tap-firing, so unless your mouse has a 1ms response time, there will still be some "bonus" damage per controllable missile that makes it do strictly more damage than what's listed on Equipment Terminal (about +0.2, something tiny -- see below), but it does move ~1 damage from Direct to Radial so it messes with breakpoints.
  • as soon as the crosshair changes to the large rectangle, you can release and it will fire 2 "buckshot" missiles, even though only 1 red dot might be illuminated.
  • when all "buckshot" missiles hit one target (i was using Praetorians and Bulk Detonators and testing 2-shots and 9-shots), then the damage scaling works intuitively. that is to say, for the ChargeTime window, the damage bonus starts at +1/+1, and then for however much % of the total time you've charged up, it adds another +3/+3, scaled linearly by the Charge %. charge 11%? get 1 + 3*0.11 = 1.33 -> +1.33/+1.33. 50% -> 1 + 3*0.5 = 2.5 -> +2.5/+2.5
  • it appears that when only one "buckshot" missile of a salvo hits an enemy, it suffers that hidden -2 Direct Damage penalty as well. i'm uncertain if this extends to "getting 8/9 hits means you lose 18 damage"; was not able to test that with my current tools.
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  • i haven't validated this yet, but from my testing of Salvo with ChargeTime=2, it seems like the "add another missile" is coded in 0.22 sec increments (perhaps scaled to 0.1375 with RoF?). so, theoretically a single, controllable missile could get up to something like +1.3/+1.3 - 2 = +0.6 damage before it switches over to the buckshot missiles firing 2-9 at once.
  • i was able to launch 9 missiles that didn't have the full +4/+4 bonus, which would indicate that its increment is rounded to 0.21 or something? it required holding for the full 2 seconds to get the max damage bonus, even though i could release a little "early" and still get 9 missiles.
  • the damage bonus scales linearly depending on charge time; it doesn't have "steps" that correspond to the number of missiles launched at once. so, it doesn't jump from +1.33 to +1.67 when going from 2 to 3 missiles; rather you can get up to +1.64 on a 2-missile shot.
#

from all of this information, i was able to calculate that the best DPS with Salvo is just firing 2-missile bursts. that's because as soon as it fires 2 missiles, the hidden -2 Direct Damage penalty no longer applies when they both hit. as a result, as soon as it switches to Salvo Mode you're getting +1.33/+1.33 out of a potential +4/+4 -- that's one-third of the total damage bonus up front for only one-ninth the amount of charge time required. it takes eight-ninths more of the charge time to get the last two-thirds of the damage bonus.

i haven't yet figured out if there's a delay between when a Salvo gets fired and before the next one starts charging. if there is, i would expect it to be based on the 3 (or 4) RoF.

earnest bloom
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Wow. Thanks a lot for your tests, that's a lot of good data

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"the damage bonus scales linearly depending on charge time; it doesn't have "steps" " is good to know, same for the hidden -2 on single missiles hits

ripe sleet
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I just ran across on the official wiki escort duty only has 2 different refueling stops and the fandom has 6.

I know it has at least 3 cause i just got 1 that wasnt on the official wiki - a 3/2 .

11.15.2023.14.09.49.png 11.15.2023.14.10.22.png
glacial topaz
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Fandom is not supported

ripe sleet
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Right but at least this time it was more right info then the official.

Im pretty sure there isnt any 3 stops anymore

But so far in the game actually looking right now i saw

2/2/1 stop
3/2/1 stop (which isnt on the official)
3/3/2 stops

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out of the fandom chart how many different types is there for escort?

glacial topaz
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How is having 3 made up ones
Better than 1 not being included

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1 is griefed with info
The other is a bit incomplete

ripe sleet
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wow why so hostile bruh

i know the fandom isnt supported but didnt know people had that much hate for it you woundlnt consider updating the official to be more accurate wiki

because i found a mission on the fandom wiki i did
a mission that wasnt on the official wiki and thought should be updated...

and im just asking out of the fandoms which ones are true and which ones are false

floral drift
# ripe sleet out of the fandom chart how many different types is there for escort?

to the best of my knowledge, these are Escort mission that i've experienced:
2/2 -> 1 stop
2/3 -> 1 stop
3/2 -> 2 stops
3/3 -> 2 stops

i believe that 2/1 existed for a short period back in U32 when the mission type was added, but it hasn't been legit for a long time.

i know for a fact that at no point in time from U32XP until today has there been a "3 stop" variant.

ripe sleet
glacial topaz
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have yet to see anyone like fandom or say something nice

ripe sleet
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just cause i said it has more info and asked whic info is legit and you think i was defending the fandom like its better or something like what imjust so confused.

and i am rewatching my recording on the 3/2 escort and it only had 1 stop

glacial topaz
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I can see 4 variations of escort on the "MissionType_Escort" script
now, one could argue that for some reason they are not all active, but doesn't explain why some variations are missing

ripe sleet
ripe sleet
ripe sleet
glacial topaz
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I have to discover where the number of stops are stored
at least I can know the pay out due to mission scale

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ah fck, there is a lot of other stuff that might need redoing now that it is known 4 and not variations exists

ripe sleet
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alright here is the 3/2 and yeah it has 1 stop

image.png
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i thinl only one missing is 2/3 at least i can verify in game i guess

glacial topaz
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a lot is missing there, like payouts

ripe sleet
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ah right that as well

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how do the payouts work again? is by biome/modifers? cause i see 2 different 2/2 and they have different payouts

floral drift
glacial topaz
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probably a base x mission scale iirc
before the game adding hazard bonus, ofc

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working on the improved table

ripe sleet
floral drift
ripe sleet
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yeah i noticed that... i think dylexia got in

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but the video i sent is a 3/2

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found a 3/2 but i swear in the video i had 1 stop like i said somebody might wanna verify and watch it i might be tripping lol

floral drift
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"the video" -- what video?

ripe sleet
glacial topaz
ripe sleet
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oooh neat

glacial topaz
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been so long, but I think there should be an easy way to calculate payouts so it can be filled
number of caves I might leave empty anyway

ripe sleet
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yeah the number caves thing is for people really want all the detials lol

glacial topaz
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oh yea, I was using your images
but idk the hazard, lol

ripe sleet
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which one?

glacial topaz
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I guess I can just get any mission end screen of escort
so I can find the XP and payout

ripe sleet
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Ah ok it was default haz 2 it seems when i took them

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@floral drift did you watch it? Am i crazy or is it a bug?

hexed needle
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your clip is length 2/complexity 3, so 1 stop

ripe sleet
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OH i see the wikia has it switched thanks so much

ripe sleet
glacial topaz
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switch betweeen what

ripe sleet
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wiki has it length complexity

Game has it complexity length

hexed needle
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it's length/complexity in the mission terminal though

ripe sleet
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D:

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welp then i guess for now i have to pay attention and try to remember

wonder why its different in mission then

glacial topaz
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uh...

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pretty means we already knew it had 4 variations
just not in that main page

ripe sleet
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Ohhh is that in like missions page?

glacial topaz
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credits page

ripe sleet
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wait where you find that?

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oh

glacial topaz
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experience page too

ripe sleet
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oh never thought to look at the credits page but exp page should of looked

glacial topaz
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seems so

ripe sleet
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well i have to take break sorry for being dumb and mixing things up/caused problems

glacial topaz
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none caused

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Posted if anyone wanna add the caverns part

image.png
floral drift
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anecdotally, i believe that the number of caverns is dictated by the number of Refuel stops (aka, by the Length).

1 stop: 5 caverns

  • Start Room
  • First resource room
  • Refuel Room
  • Second resource room
  • Ommoran Room

2 stops: 7 caverns

  • Start Room
  • First resource room
  • First Refuel Room
  • Second resource room
  • Second Refuel Room
  • Third resource room
  • Ommoran Room
glacial topaz
#

convincing, added

trail gust
trail gust
glacial topaz
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lack of experimental was sad, due to not being able to prepare for update
but I guess we will get to it in due time

trail gust
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They made most electrocution effects use PST_MovementSpeedPenalty, Taser Arrows already use PST_MovementSpeedEnvironmentalPenalty, removed MaxResistance values from them (so it defaults at 1.0 i.e. 100% now), and added slowdown resistances for creatures as PST_MovementSpeedPenaltyReduction. For oppressor, the latter equals 0.75 i.e. 75% slowdown effect reduction or x0.25 slowdown effect.

Slowdown Status Effect Items that modify PST_MovementSpeedPenalty or PST_MovementSpeedEnvironmentalPenalty get reduced by PST_MovementSpeedPenaltyReduction.

Let's say oppressor moves at 144 cm/s. After M1000 EFC shot it moves at (−80%) * (1 − 0.25) * (1 − 0.75) = 122 cm/s (tested and confirmed). That is (MovSpeed Slowdown) * (1 − Electrical Resistance) * (1 − MovSpeed Penalty Reduction). Electrical resistance gets accounted because M1000 EFS STE has AffectedByResistances flag.

Before MovSpeed Penalty Reduction was used only by Dash, Iron Will & Unstoppable. Now some creatures have it to additionally resist slowdowns of type "Penalty".

image.png
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@weary sonnet Creature table now needs those MovSpeed Penalty Reduction values to be added.

image.png
trail gust
weary sonnet
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Don’t think I will really have the time to work on it before the weekend.

glacial topaz
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should I updte to-do list with a check list of what pages or info needs updating ?
or any suggestions on what to focus
like, Weapon Maintenance, new page or add to season one as section ?

gaunt cipher
trail gust
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0.75 like opps

gaunt cipher
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seems like a very convenient simplification from how they functioned before

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I wonder why the patchnotes say overcharger's max damage bonus was changed from 32 to 100

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the lowest the maximum could possibly be before was 40

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with hellfire/triple tech/mole

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presumably just an oversight on what the old values were

floral drift
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oh dear me. Boomstick OC "Shaped Shells" reduces the Base Spread from [35 wide by 10 tall] to [5 wide by 5 tall]

that's the same Base Spread as what the Minigun used to be at 100% Base Spread (before it was reduced to 4.5x4.5)

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...that's 1/14th of the area 👀

floral drift
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SMG RecoilPitch has been reduced from [35, 45] in U34 to [35, 40] before today's patch to just a flat 30 starting with Maintenance Update

woven creek
gaunt cipher
floral drift
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i've been twiddling with Boomstick breakpoints for about an hour tonight, focused on Shaped Shells @ 10m

gaunt cipher
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it still says "50% spread" on the stats screen 🙂

floral drift
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technically true; it's still 50% vertical base spread 😆

floral drift
short cloud
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at least it might be used more now

proper kernel
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Did CSP puddles heat to ignite change in this update? Before the update taking Heavy hitter and the T1 damage mod (40 damage) lets you apply 20 heat per shot, igniting puddles in one shot. after the update it seems that it now takes 2 shots to ignite with the same set up.

trail gust
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5 plus 25% of their Direct Damage
So that is 5 + 10 + bugged 5 AoE right?

proper kernel
# trail gust

Testing rn, and its applying 20 to a grunt but still needs 2 to ignite, both puddles from a charge shot and normal shot (if that matters)

When it applies 10 heat it need 3 shots to ignite.

trail gust
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I remember testing it back then

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Puddles which have ObjectTemperature component take x0.5 heat from direct hits

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that's just how things work

proper kernel
proper kernel
trail gust
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it would ignite it now if it was fixed

proper kernel
trail gust
trail gust
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if it's a direct dmg

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So it actually deals only 15 heat to puddles with 40 dmg shot then

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if it's hh with dmg mod and bn

proper kernel
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huh

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That sucks for my build, but less bugs is better lol

trail gust
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I just confirmed it:

  • Changed burning temperature to 15 — it ignited it with 1 shot
  • Changed it to 15.01 — it didn't ignite it
    (40 direct x 0.25) / 2 bugged ObjectTemp + 5 BN + 5 bugged HH AoE = 15
proper kernel
trail gust
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It only reaches 15 heat out of 20 required BurnTemp

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with max dmg build

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because of 2 bugs

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though you could say bugged AoE heat gets countered by another bug with ObjectTemp component

proper kernel
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ok, I got confused cause of this part "it ignited it with 1 shot" I assumed your test ignited it in one shot.

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So its two bugs counteracting, but otherwise working as should, and puddles take 50% less heat from direct damage

trail gust
proper kernel
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Ohhhhh that’s the temp for burn not the burn applied, I understand now

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I misunderstood what the 15 and 15.1 was lol

glacial topaz
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added the stubby mod changes, but missing prices

hexed needle
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if prices are still needed

image.png image.png
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nvm, just added them

gaunt cipher
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Am I seeing things right that goo bomber shots inflict 3.75 cold?

glacial topaz
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it is in the patch notes "Converted some of the Mactera Frost Bomber’s snowball projectile damage to Ice Damage"
it just doesn't say the %

gaunt cipher
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It appears to be 50% explosive, 50% ice. But it also appears that the ice goo bomber shots are only inflicting 3.75 cold.

earnest bloom
gaunt cipher
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I believe stingtail's cooldown on successful grab is 15 seconds. Unsure atm what their normal grab cooldown is.

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Range to start grab also seems to be 15 meters?

glacial topaz
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trying to find something on that
anyone knows what the new HP scaling is for stinger ?

floral drift
glacial topaz
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that is certainly nice
though I have been able to get a bunch of info already using modding tools, so helping a bit by getting some stuff out of the way for us

floral drift
bold plover
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From what I recall you get all C4 back on a resupply now. I can check in a minute.

gaunt cipher
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afaik C4 now rounds up like everything else, so when you have 3 max C4 you now get 2 on resupply

gaunt cipher
glacial topaz
gaunt cipher
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Notably, a stingtail on haz5 with 4 players would previously have 900 HP taking scaling into account. Now with the lower base HP and no scaling, it will have 480 HP in the same context.

bold plover
glacial topaz
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so... should we TELL in the page it rounds up, or just don't mention it, since... "it works like everything" ?

analog rock
glacial topaz
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would be the only case of mentioning old behavior, as throughout the updates, many things changed, bugs removed, and many else
is the worry "people not gonna know it changed" ??

analog rock
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I wouldn't put a notice. But if there was that worry, then a short blurb would do, I believe

glacial topaz
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is there anything that rounds down still

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also considering trivia ? the balance section would be fitting on that case

gaunt cipher
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Overcharger is definitely adding damage every 0.25s, except it's 12.5 damage now. Caps at 100, though with the new time to overheat coilgun you can actually keep charging a while past that.

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Speaking of, the time to overheat coilgun now seems to be a bit over 4 seconds... 4.2 seconds? Not sure, don't know if I can read that in the files.

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Might be 4.15s. Unsure.

glacial topaz
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hmm.... helps ?
HeatPerSecondWhileCharging = 0.4
HeatPerSecondWhenCharged = 0.2
MaxOverchargeTime = 2

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hmm...., the curve for coilheaup seems to have 4 points, with a lot of values... like 4 values per point
but last ones is like 0,7 and 1
let me see how long it takes to charge to see if I get to 4s

gaunt cipher
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I believe normal charge takes 0.8s like before

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so at normal charge speed it takes 2.8 seconds to reach max overcharge boost

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and then there's quite a bit of let afterwards

glacial topaz
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charging 0.8s * 0.4 = 0.32 heat
charged 2s * 0.2 = 0.4 heat
that would put it at 0.72 heat, so guess values I got makes no sense yet

gaunt cipher
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no, that seems correct. overheat is at about 3/4ths when you shoot at just barely max overcharge bonus

vlcsnap-2023-11-17-20h03m09s674.jpg
glacial topaz
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was using the 4s+ to overheat as reference
"it is overheating in 2.8s. not 4s"

gaunt cipher
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it's getting to max overcharge bonus in 2.8 seconds

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overheating in slightly over 4 seconds

glacial topaz
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the things that confused me was like, it is getting to overheat before the 2.8s
which is when it was getting to the max value, and only explanation to go beyond that, would be for it to not heat up before charging, making one of the variables unused...

acoustic scarab
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I think the recent update might've broken map rotations

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Will keep collecting data to see if it's consistent

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For months I've seen each map rotation have 6 biomes in total, and at least one biome from each of the four regions

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Right now I'm looking at 5 biomes and only 3/4 regions accessible

weary sonnet
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movementSpeedPenaltyReduction added to cargo and to all creatures data pages with a 0% default value
I added it with a 75% value to Oppressors and all praets variants, if some praets variants don’t have it, it may need a fix.

bold plover
acoustic scarab
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But I haven't disabled the rockpox season

trail gust
weary sonnet
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May need to update the templates for that.
I will do it soon.

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Trying to force an update of the pages with the new data.

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Ok, it should be good now.

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If a page is not updated, purging its cache should do it, if it is not good after a purge let me know, it means I missed something.

bold plover
earnest bloom
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the haz 5 Health pool of the stingtail took a huge hit according to the wiki, from 720 to 480 (33% reduction?), and that's on top of the added resistances. Did they explain anywhere why they didn't use the previous 1p hp values instead?

glacial topaz
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1p values for what difficulty ??

glacial topaz
acoustic scarab
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The patch notes mentioned the stingtail now no longer scales with party size

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I think this is the numerical effect of this change

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So I guess its HP is now supposed to be for 1p regardless of team size?

gaunt cipher
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Yes, they no longer have large creature scaling. So haz 5 they have 1.2x hp scaling, just like grunts.

earnest bloom
floral drift
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if that's true, then picking up T2.C +150% charge speed would actually increase that duration 🤔

Charge Time = 1/(1.2 * 2.5) = 0.3333
Heat at full charge = 0.3333 * 0.4 = 0.133333
Time until overheat = (1.0 - 0.133333) / 0.2 = 4.333333
0.3333 + 4.333333 = 4.6666667
glacial topaz
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so my mistake was thinking the max heat was 0.7 ?

floral drift
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....and Mole, Hellfire, and TTC would all have shortened times to overheat, due to slower charge speed

70% charge speed:

Charge Time = 1/(1.2 * 0.7) = 1.190476
Heat at full charge = 1.190476 * 0.4 = 0.47619
Time until overheat = (1.0 - 0.47619) / 0.2 = 2.61905
1.190476 + 2.61905 = 3.8095
floral drift
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this was first discovered on EPC, but has applied to... i think it was CWC? i think Drak has a diff max heat IIRC

edit: no that doesn't sound right. maybe it was just EPC that uses the default value of 1 Max Heat?

glacial topaz
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I probably need to figure out where all the default values are stored

floral drift
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good luck -- i went looking once a few years ago and ran into a wall when it left the parsed files. it was referring to things baked into the game engine itself, i think.

i hope you can succeed; i did not

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granted, our knowledge and tools have vastly improved since then. maybe that will help you rocknstone

glacial topaz
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was it you the mentioned doing some validation for Colette, to see if the heat values were the good ones (??)
ended up having some ideas, such as ensuring it overheats in 1.0s, (making the widelens add 2.2 instead of 1.1 heat) and having 50 fire rate... though I imagine there is another interesting way of doing it

floral drift
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admittedly, my tools and techniques for figuring things out are quite archaic now that the advent of modding has been around for a while.

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i just take the game as-is, pick the right enemies with the right resistances, scaling, and temperatures to test if how i think something works is correct. or launch missions, time things by hand, do the math on paper. etc etc.

glacial topaz
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well, that sounds like a lot of what was done
lots of maths, values, and missing values
which ended up in a formula that gets it almost perfectly
I wouldn't have much issues editing values
but like... not much point if it won't be good enough proof of it being good values

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yay "LevelXPRequirements": [25000, 30000, 40000, 50000]

trail gust
floral drift
floral drift
ocean pollen
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Just checking, but most of the names of the beer on the wiki seems to be changed, is it an inside joke or was it a troll

floral drift
glacial topaz
#

You clicked on wrong wiki by accident

ocean pollen
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Ah, gotcha

gaunt cipher
#

And happier still to report that no matter your time to overheat, it is indeed always possible to get max overcharger damage bonus of +100, which is indicated by that yellow glow effect.
No bugs I can see with triple tech chambers either, not that I particularly expected any but I figured I'd check.

floral drift
gaunt cipher
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Which is pretty generous. Aside from it banking damage faster and more total, I'm frankly most glad that overcharger is simpler to build now. No more variable max damage based on charge speed.

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Not being able to take both +charge speed and overcharger at the same time also simplifies things, really.

floral drift
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yeah. it's nice to know "each second held adds 50 damage, up to two seconds" for all builds. way easier to remember

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i remember months ago, trying to get the mythical +64 by hand in real time. it was very difficult, i think i only got it 3 times ever or something 🤔

it felt like a "frame perfect" requirement at the time

floral drift
# floral drift ok, i'm redoing my tests for CWC heat/sec gen and Max Heat. i'll let you know wh...

alright, update time. i re-tested all 36 combinations of Heat/sec and RoF for CWC, wrote down the overheat ammo spent in a spreadsheet, and then i've spent nearly another hour after that just massaging the values to try to get a result.

here's a summary of the findings so far:

  • there's a new value named "HeatOnStartUse" with a value of 0.13
  • Curve_Mircrowave_Overheat2 had its max value increased from 3 to 3.12. its cubic polynomial equation is -2.57133 x^3 + 12.8449 x^2 + 17.0056 x + 0 to go from {0, 0} to {3.12, 100}
  • i was unable to find one set of values for Heat/sec and Max Heat that satisfied all 36 combinations
  • i was able to prove that Blistering Necrosis' x1.25 Heat/sec penalty only applies to the base gun and T2.A, but does not apply to either of the T4 mods +1.1 or +0.4 additive Heat/sec penalties
  • i noticed that the command GetAll WPN_MicrowaveGun_C CurrentTemperature returned the [0, 100] value from the Heat Curve, so i could use that and the polynomial equation above to look up the current Heat value that way.
  • as such, i installed the Better Time Control mod, dilated time to x0.1 rate, and did my level-best to fire for "1 second", using the on-gun ammo counter. because i was in Solo Mode, i was able to pause the game by opening the Esc menu, run the CurrentTemperature command, use the polynomial to solve it, and got an underlying Heat value of 1.12264.
trail gust
#

I can film you CurrentTemperature value as CWC charges up, if you need that.

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So you won't have to query it per moment.

floral drift
#

so, there are several hypotheses in my mind right now regarding CWC's Heat/sec and Max Heat.

  1. every time the M1 button gets pushed, that 0.13 heat penalty gets applied. as such, by holding it down until it overheats, the Max Heat to calculate time-of-firing is equal to Max Heat - 0.13.
  2. if that 0.13 gets subtracted from 1.12264, it yields a value of 0.99264. it's very probable that i just didn't hold down the trigger for 10 full seconds in time dilation mode; as such, i take that result to show that the baseline Heat/sec is 1.0. this is supported by the parsed game files; noticing that T2.A is -0.2 additive, Liquid Cooling System is -0.1 additive, and the Equipment Terminal lists them as -20% and -10% respectively.
  3. the Max Heat is 3.12, or very very close to that value. this is based off of the Heat Curve file, since the Minigun's maxxes at x=9.5 at that's also the correct value for Minigun.
  4. i suspect that there is an unlisted (undocumented?) short window of firing for the CWC before it starts accumulating heat (or maybe before it Overheats?). i noticed in time dilation mode that there were two distinct sound cues, and the VFX changed too. it's much less noticeable in real time.
#

in particular, when using this equation for calculating the ammo to overheat:

Ammo = Floor[RoF * (3.12 - 0.13) / ((1.0 - T2.A - LCS) * BN + T4)]

31/36 of the combinations are exactly 2 shots below the observed values. if that hypothetical pre-heat-accumulation window is like 0.2 sec or something, it might account for that and be a very close fit to observed values.

floral drift
# trail gust I can film you CurrentTemperature value as CWC charges up, if you need that.

yeah, this could be useful. would you be willing to get two different versions of the recording?

-A--- + Liquid Cooling System to get 70% heat/sec and 7 RoF
-B--- + Mega Power Supply to get 100% heat/sec and 12 RoF

i'm planning to scrub it frame-by-frame and write down the CurrentTemperature at each frame that the ammo counter on the gun changes, reverse-calculate the underlying heat values, and then plot them.

thank you! rocknstone

trail gust
#

I also want to make Overcharger Indicator mod that would display current damage on the gun past 100% charge

#

Thanks to all the info here that should be possible — already got my widget displayed on the gun.

floral drift
floral drift
trail gust
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You can release after 3 sound ticks and get 100 easily.

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T2A+LCS x0.1 time dilation 60 fps recording

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T2B+MPS x0.1 time dilation 60 fps recording

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i'm planning to scrub it frame-by-frame and write down the CurrentTemperature at each frame that the ammo counter on the gun changes, reverse-calculate the underlying heat values, and then plot them.
I can Ctrl+C → Ctrl+V you these values.

floral drift
#

thank you!

trail gust
floral drift
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well no wonder we can't figure out the linear scaling of the heat

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there are only two reasons why the lines would dip off like that:

  • the heat generation is non-linear and the charts are right
  • i used the wrong polynomial equation to convert from the [0, 100] range, potentially if Max Heat != 3.12
trail gust
floral drift
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yeah, the plots i just posted are after undoing the effects of Curve_Microwave_Overheat2

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it's two curves

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notice that the Y-axis is on a scale of [0, 4], not [0, 100]

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sorry, it's late at night where i live. i might have misunderstood your screenshots, SplitSentro

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i'm gonna go to bed, come back to this tomorrow or something...

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the slopes of the linear parts, when Y < 2, are 0.804685 Heat/sec and 1.1497566.

that's... close-ish to 70%.

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wait. i think i recognize that curve.

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@trail gust can you show the picture of FSD/Content/WeaponsNTools/GatlingGun/Curve_GatlingGunOverheat ?

i know it goes from x=[0, 9.5] to y=[0, 100], but i think it's the same shape as the screenshots i just posted above

trail gust
floral drift
#

ok, looks like i was wrong. it doesn't line up 😦

#

thanks, SplitSentro rocknstone

floral drift
# floral drift there are only two reasons why the lines would dip off like that: - the heat gen...

my hyperfocus kicked in. i can't go to bed.

the answer was number 2, i used the wrong equation. when i got the interpolating polynomial from the cubic curve, i used the Leave Tangent of {3.12, 100} instead of Arrive Tangent. switching it to the correct one yielded new equation -4.8382 x^3 + 19.9175 x^2 + 17.0056 x + 0, which makes a much nicer straight line!

working on making the new plot. the T2.A + LCS has a perfect linear slope of 0.7000523793

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T2.B + MPS has a linear slope of 0.9997405714

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yeah, we in boyz. thanks to SplitSentro for the raw data rocknstone

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look at this beauty:

image.png
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so, that is pretty strong confirmation that it's linear 1 Heat/sec up to a Max Heat of 3.12

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but it doesn't explain why that produces results 2 ammo fewer than observed... 🤔

floral drift
#

i can explain 1 of the 2 -- the first shot. it's fired at t=0, but the division i was doing was neglecting it.

when i change to use this formula, i get 35/36 matches:

Heat/sec = 1.0 (baseline)
Max Heat = 3.1
RoF = 7 (baseline)

Ammo til Overheat = 1 + Ceil[RoF * (3.1-0.13)/(HeatGen * BN + T4)]

the only outlier is T4.A + Mega Power Supply, where i observed it overheat after 15 shots but that formula predicts 16.

i'm not sure why it uses Ceil() instead of Floor() like i had originally suggested to Omega Sentinel, but i'll just take the win so i can sleep 💤

#

i think the exact value of Max Heat is indeed 3.12, but for predicting the number of shots to overheat 3.1 works better. 🤷‍♂️

#

i just retested T4.A + MPS, it's overheating on 16 now. i must have mistyped the data point a few hours ago. 36/36 match now.

the equation is so good it literally caught an error. 😆 🧑‍🔬

ok, project done; CWC overheat/magsize figured out. i sleep now.

tame plover
#

Does walking on hot rock in magma core also increase the movement speed of bugs?

trail gust
#

sure

#

but they avoid it because it works like a repellent

tame plover
tame plover
trail gust
#

Other gas clouds can be heated up directly np

tame plover
#

Or is it not an EHS?

trail gust
#

You can check in STE spreadsheet

trail gust
tame plover
#

I do think bugs go around magma from the diffractor. But that's just from seeing it happen in gameplay

tame plover
gaunt cipher
#

It may have originally been an EHS, or that might have been something I thought due to it completely preventing nemesis cooling at the time.
However, nemesis had bugged interactions with multiple lingering heat sources back then, so it might have just be incorrectly applying so much heat that it completely chumped nemesis without being EHS.

trail gust
#

It was EHS yeah

image.png
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S02P2 changed it

gaunt cipher
#

Aha, I wasn't wrong this time! I feel like there are other things wrong in that video, though.

#

By the way, praetorians are currently listed as having the 75% movement speed penalty reduction on the wiki, but electric reload certainly still appears to be slowing them down to 0.2x movespeed.

trail gust
#

I'll check

tame plover
#

Alright, thanks to the both of you!

trail gust
#

Praetorian doesn't have penalty reduction

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Checked the pawnstats

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@weary sonnet

gaunt cipher
#

Is it just oppressors, then, or is it also on dreadnoughts?

trail gust
#

so far I've confirmed it on opps and dreads

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looks to be the only ones

#

not the pawnstat search, but the name of the variable that is used to apply it

tame plover
trail gust
#

sure

#

my words are based on the fact that in the past when I removed EHS element from sticky flames STE - it fixed the bug

weary sonnet
tame plover
trail gust
#

No, if you apply sticky flames, make a pause, then try to ignite it - it won't explode

#

just tested that

tame plover
weary sonnet
#

Live on the table, not working for the infotable in the creature’s individual page, I will try to figure out why.

trail gust
tame plover
#

Sticky flames on their own are able to ignite though, it's just very inconsistent

trail gust
#

yeah I remember that it still could ignite it

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sometimes

tame plover
#

Alright, thanks. Very weird bug

weary sonnet
#

Well I can’t figure out why the Creature infobox template won’t display the movement speed penalty reduction stat.

trail gust
#

smth is missing

weary sonnet
#

Added for the roe.

daring prawn
#

hey guys

#

got a question about the drills

#

is the thing where the faster drilling dosent actually do that much still a thing?

trail gust
#

if you don't drill horizontally all the time, it provides a significant improvement

glacial topaz
trail gust
#

If you tell me the values of gun's properties, I can confirm it without any additional mods.

#

In fact, you can change these parameters via Sandbox Utilities.

glacial topaz
#

Didnt meatshield did that already by testing for all 36 combimations of colette

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Idea was to have a value so different only all values being right would fit

trail gust
#

You can set any value for gun's parameters using Sandbox Utilities.

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I'm not talking about Loadout switch.

glacial topaz
#

is that new feature, don't remember seeing that

trail gust
#

Not at all, it's Creative Menu features to set necessary environment and then change properties of existing objects by name. You need to know what to change beforehand — either by looking up the assets or even better by looking up the header dumps.

#

Basically type property name, property value and property type, press Set and it's all good.

floral drift
floral drift
trail gust
floral drift
#

science 🎉

glacial topaz
#

is anyone planning to add MeatShield's findings in the future or can I add to page and let others check it ?
from what I am getting, maxHeat 3.1, base is 1, 0.13 per click, BN is bugged and apply before T4, the mods are a flat value and not a %

glacial topaz
#

this changed right, status effect page

image.png
trail gust
#

Depends, from STE to STE it's different (the slow being affected by elec resistance).

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And it was like that before too.

glacial topaz
#

complicated

glacial topaz
#

next up...
weapon maintanance should be added where ? at least from following the recent changes I don't think we mentioned it anywhere

trail gust
#

What does that change mean for minigun?

image.png
floral drift
#

don't suppose it's used with T5.A Aggressive Venting, to cut the CurrentTemperature from 100 to 55 instantly?

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earlier tonight i discovered some whack stuff with Minigun heat accumulation for any build that affects RoF. T1.B and Compact Feed Mechanism are lasting an extra ~0.7 seconds before Overheating.

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i'm wondering if that new value has something to do with that change/bug

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also also, Burning Hell is only x1.1 Heat/sec now; previously x1.5. i suspect that's a bug.

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🤔 this is all adding up to "the devs were experimenting with changes to Minigun in a dev branch, decided not to add them, but a few of them snuck into the main branch for the release"

bold plover
#

Prolly.

proper kernel
#

https://deeprockgalactic.wiki.gg/wiki/Glyphid_Stingtail

The cooldown for the Stingtails grab attack are not mentioned, and personally I think it should be added. Is there a reason it should not be included? If not, where would be a good place to add this information and does anyone have the actual stats for the cooldown?

dawn moat
#

under "splinehookattack"

acoustic scarab
#

Wait, is the cooldown without a success only 1.2 seconds? That can't be right...

short cloud
#

could be wrong tho 🤔

proper kernel
#

Does this seem like good text to add the cooldown information? It would be under the Combat section, directly under the current Sting Whip paragraph.

After landing a successful Sting Whip attack, a Stingtail must wait 15 seconds before it can attempt another Sting Whip attack. If the Sting Whip attack fails, the time before another can be attempted is instead x seconds.

acoustic scarab
#

After landing a successful Sting Whip attack, the Stingtail waits 15 seconds before another attempt. If the Sting Whip attack fails, its cooldown is instead x seconds.

#

A bit less verbose

glacial topaz
proper kernel
stable mirage
#

can dreadnougts spawn in other missions?

glacial topaz
#

I wonder if you ask that because you got it, or because someone said
anyway, they can spawn yes

  • small chance of happening, for non-solo Mining expeditions and On-site refining
  • chance of spawning on Point Extraction, for haz 3 or less, but can take a long time to happen
dawn moat
glacial topaz
#

well, can always change to 120s

#

maybe it is the time between aiming to start launching tail ?

floral drift
#

i'd lay odds that 1.2 second value is to play the sound cue, to let players dodge

#

where the Stingtail AI decides to attack, waits 1.2 sec to go "squeak squeak", then does the pull attack animation

#

also, the red tip lights up IIRC

earnest bloom
earnest bloom
glacial topaz
#

where did you get the haz4 part

earnest bloom
#

"chance of spawning on Point Extraction, for haz 3 or less, but can take a long time to happen"

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I'm pretty sure I've misunderstood what you meant, it feels weird to me that haz 3 or less could get it on point extration but not haz 4+

glacial topaz
#

if I was talking about all 3 missions together I wouldn't have made it in 2 distinct parts
dreads just makes point extraction easier... for stopping the swarms, but I can't remember if it stops pressure waves too

jolly adder
#

What amount of heat does a DRAK-25 need to be at in order to count as "halfway" as of course, the wiki states it's not constant, the heat bar half fills at 18 shots, as maces out at 45.

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Is it 0.8? Or a rough amount very close to it? Or Is it actually 1.0 and there's something I don't know about the heat generation?

glacial topaz
#

if it was just a multiplication then it would be linear too...
you basically asking what % must be on the display for it to count as over 50% for the effect to trigger
or, if the 50% is based on the display, what heat% that actually is

floral drift
jolly adder
#

Thank you

trail gust
jolly adder
#

I've been doing some math for different overclocks and heat gen upgrades and etc and found out they all reach the "halfway" mark at exactly 0.81 heat, regardless of heat gen per shot values, except from Thermal liquid coolant which does it at 0.80325

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So I'd think it's either at 0.8, 0.81, or somewhere inbetween

oblique gust
#

hey there im not sure if this is the right place to ask questions but i dont now how to google this... so how do i get this for my hostet maps?

image.png
austere fossil
#

Options menu, "Prevent Latejoin Character Duplication" checkbox (or similar wording)

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Make sure this box has the X

image.png
oblique gust
#

thank you very much:D

acoustic scarab
#

Do we know if large of small meteorites obey gravity after impact?

analog rock
jolly adder
#

I believe large ones don't however

#

Believe, not fully sure

floral drift
# jolly adder What amount of heat does a DRAK-25 need to be at in order to count as "halfway" ...

ok, brace yourself for some maffs and techno-babble

Much in the same way that Gunner's Minigun and Driller's CWC have linear heat generation but use a Heat Curve to transform that into a non-linear [0, 100] value, Scout's Drak25 also has a Heat Curve. it's a little different in that each ammo consumed adds a small amount of heat, therefore tying the Drak's RoF to the Heat/sec generated (unlike Minigun/CWC).

when looking at the parsed gamefile for Drak's Heat Curve, FSD/Content/WeaponsNTools/PlasmaCarbine/Curve_PlasmaCarbine_Overheat, i can see two values:
{x=0, y=0, LeaveTangent=64.63589}
{x=2, y=100, ArriveTangent=12.316628}

if you've taken some higher math courses (like Calc 2), you may have heard of the concept of Taylor Series' Polynomial Approximations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor_series the idea being that for any "nice" function where y=f(x), f(x) can be perfectly represented at a certain point by adding up as many terms of x^0, x^1, x^2, x^3... as necessary. as long as you have a specific point and you can calculate the derivatives of that function, then Taylor Series can perfectly replicate f(x) near that point.

so, when i see that the Heat Curve is a Cubic Interpolating Polynomial that has two values of a point and its corresponding tangent at that point, i recognize that they're doing something similar. even though the Unreal Engine does the interpolation itself, there is a fundamental underlying polynomial equation which has an x^3 function as its highest power which perfectly matches those two points and those two tangents. but, rather than calculate it by hand, i know of a useful tool to do it for me: Mathematica. for our purposes, though, we'll use its web interface named WolframAlpha: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=InterpolatingPolynomial[{{{0}%2C0%2C64.63589}%2C{{2}%2C100%2C12.316628}}%2C+{x}]

that yields a result of -5.76187 x^3 + 4.2058 x^2 + 64.6359 x + 0 for the Cubic Interpolating function.

#

now, armed with that equation, we can find the precise answer. the fastest route is just to have WolframAlpha solve it for us:
https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=N[Solve[-5.76187+x^3+%2B+4.2058+x^2+%2B+64.6359+x+%2B+0+%3D+50%2C+x]]

that yields three roots of the cubic equation: {x≈-3.36709, x≈0.776039, x≈3.32099}. however, only one root is within our x range of [0, 2]. therefore, the answer to "when does Drak-25 Heat Curve equal 50?" is 0.776039.

another way to do it is to use the coefficients of that cubic equation, subtract 50 such that -5.76187 x^3 + 4.2058 x^2 + 64.6359 x - 50 = 0 and then plug those four coefficients into this website: https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/algebra/cubicequation.php which yields the same three roots: {x1 = -3.36709, x2 = 0.77604, x3 = 3.32099}

the third and by-far-the-hardest method would be to solve for the inverse function of the Cubic Interpolating Function. it's theoretically possible, but very difficult to do -- even with using online tools. but with that inverse function, you could just plug in y=50, 60, 70, 80, 90 etc to calculate TEF activation heat thresholds because it would spit out the corresponding x value for each y input.

floral drift
# trail gust

now, as you can see, SplitSentro actually already showed you the answer by opening the Heat Curve file in an editor and then just hovering the cursor over the point where y=50, which shows the same value of 0.776 (it's slightly rounded due to UI limitations)

thanks, SplitSentro! your solution is way easier to use than mine 😆 rocknstone

#

@jolly adder TL;DR: Drak-25 Heat Curve = 50 when underlying Heat = 0.776039

gaunt cipher
floral drift
#

ok, maybe "bug" was the wrong term. you're right.

perhaps "it wasn't supposed to change" might be a more apt descriptor?

gaunt cipher
#

Right. In that case it still seems they were at least testing that as a change for BH, though. Hard to tell what exactly is happening with the other minigun stuff currently.

#

By the way, I've seen people mentioning that clientside behavior has improved wrt things like animation cancelling and terrain scanner bugs. Anyone anecdotally notice netcode differences?

floral drift
floral drift
hexed needle
dawn moat
jolly adder
floral drift
trail gust
#

It varies from build to build, theoretical number is more reliable.

floral drift
#

yes ^

SplitSentro is correct -- changing Heat/Shot will affect the number of shots to reach the HeatCurve=50

trail gust
#

I'll probably make a mod for Drak as well like I did with Coil Gun's Overcharger.

floral drift
#

...if TEF is on your mind, instead of just 50% 😅

trail gust
#

I've already done TEF before

proper kernel
short cloud
dawn moat
glacial topaz
#

guess we didn't look into the Breach cutter changes to add to wiki, right ?

rotund mural
#

https://deeprockgalactic.wiki.gg/wiki/Lost_Pack
hey guys i've just gotten all the rewards from the lost pack loot pool, and it's given me the empty message. but i haven't managed to find the bosco paintjobs.
this likely means that they've been added to the loot crate loot pool. i will update if i manage to actually find a bosco paintjob from a loot crate.

grave cape
#

is the new wiki editable by randoms or only by staff?

#

cause i cant find an edit button

glacial topaz
#

did you make an account ?

grave cape
#

ngl i didnt even see the blue bar at the top

#

i wanted to fix a typo that i spotted on a page but it doesnt seem to be there in the edit page, only in the pages main view

#

am i being dumb

glacial topaz
#

if you not showing what it is how we gonna know

grave cape
#

well i want to fix this

image.png
#

but when i click edit on the overclocks

#

it's just a blank page seemingly referencing a table from somewhere else

image.png
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and idk where i'd find that table

glacial topaz
#

page information, on the left

grave cape
#

ah

#

thanks

glacial topaz
#

no problem

proper kernel
glacial topaz
#

uh...
I am getting 50 on the files, if you want to test that to confirm

jolly adder
#

Wiki states that minelayer mines "will not accumulate any further bonus damage" when impacting terrain. Does this mean the bonus gets entirely removed? Or that it just stops increasing?

tame plover
jolly adder
#

Oh it's bugged, hm, well someone on the post did highlight the negligent effects of how much added damage you'd get from nitroglycerin on minelayer so I won't complain on missing out on much, guess I'll go back to classic stun

glacial topaz
trail gust
bold plover
#

Mike said the STE can stack now, unless that was the normal trail.

trail gust
#

Normal trail can stack, but the electric trail can stack but doesn't stack.

#

You can see CanStack = True for both Electric and Normal Trails, it's just that there's no such effect for electric trail.

ocean pollen
#

is the crassus not being on the creatures page intentional or is it missing

#

i made sure im on the right wiki this time

weary sonnet
#

All variants creatures considered as variants are currently hidden on the main creature page.
That include radioactive / glacial strata variants, but also golden variants like the golden lootbug and the crassus.

#

IIRC, this choice was made at that time for two reasons mostly, to make the page a bit lighter and also because it was hard to get a satisfying sorting order with the automatic cargo query for the variants.

ocean pollen
#

gotcha

weary sonnet
#

It is still possible to display them all if we want to, but ordering all the creature in a way that seems logical may prove to be challenging since most of it is automated (the creature’s data is pulled from a database).

outer edge
#

had a question: If a dread spawns instead of a swarm on a refinery mission, does it give you extra xp for killing it? the wiki didn't seem to have that info

glacial topaz
#

enemies give 1xp per kill (or was it 2 ?) anyway, 1 or 2
pretty sure that is already on the experience page

jolly adder
#

How is the extra damage from "the mole" overclock calculated?

tame plover
jolly adder
#

Sooooo, if someone were to make a platform tower and cut slits through it per say...

bold plover
#

yes

#

can use the coil gun itself to make gaps to get damage boosts since it carves

jolly adder
#

Hahaaaaa noice, gonna experiment with that quite a bit

glacial topaz
glacial topaz
plush night
#

@lucid helm
What you said in #fan-art is wrong, dreadnought can replace regular swarm.
Read more on the associated wiki page: https://deeprockgalactic.wiki.gg/wiki/Swarm
"Though not technically a Swarm, this event is conducted in the same way."

Deep Rock Galactic Wiki
Swarm

OverviewDRG
Concepts
Swarm

lucid helm
glacial topaz
#

you can't get both a swarm and dread at the same time on ME and PE
which pretty much can be read as "replace", considering the swarm is the standard behavior

analog rock
#

(And a bulk that happened to be around)

glacial topaz
#

Wasnt there a whole issue with bulldog burning bonus being too good ? Asking due to those one shots sounds way too good to be true

tame plover
analog rock
glacial topaz
#

what is the roll control rotation speed ?
working on OC table, mentioning the steer on effects, but thought of being more precise than "it spins fast"

trail gust
#

1200, tested

glacial topaz
#

1200 degrees per second, so 3 rotations and 1/3 ?

image.png
#

I mean, we might as well add spinning death values too

tame plover
#

Does anyone have an archive of the weekly assignments from the past few weeks?

glacial topaz
#

as in the missions for core hunt and weekly priority ?
I don't think there is anything on the wiki, and only "archive" I remember is for deep dives, but maybe someone did it
what is it for ?

tame plover
analog rock
#

Maybe @acoustic scarab ? I remember they had quite a lot of data on their games, so maybe it is included...

acoustic scarab
#

I do not track assignments, as I don't play regularly enough to clear all weeklies

#

I can find some assignment markers on my screenshots, but the data will be sporadic at best

tame plover
#

Otherwise I'll just wait until next week and check if it begins with IS again

acoustic scarab
#

Unfortunately, the most recent assignment I took was the Halloween special. However, there are some even further back, checking

#

2023-10-14

image.png
#

2023-10-08

image.png
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2023-07-27

image.png
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And then there's only the Oktoberfest, Summer Event and Season 4 starter assignments

#

That's all I have on hand for season 4

tame plover
#

Thank you, I'll wait until next week to see if it's a coincidence. I do see an IS as your first mission in the newest screenshot but considering there wasn't any patch between the 8th and 10th of October the bug probably hadn't started yet in this screenshot (if it exists).

I am fairly certain that last weeks assignments also both started with IS, just like this weeks. I am less certain about 2 weeks ago but I do believe it was 2x IS again. But considering the odds of getting industrial sabotage as the first mission for both assignments seem to be pretty low it does seem weird.

This might also be a coincidence and only got noticed because it's industrial sabotage and people don't like that mission. If it was a normal mining operation 3-4 times in a row it probably wouldn't have gotten noticed.

floral drift
#

#negativityBiasAtWork 🧑‍🔬

#

anecdotally, i do believe that for the last 3 weeks, 5/6 of the weekly assignments have started with Sabo. i even got a Promo to start with Sabo during that time period, too.

acoustic scarab
#

Added 104 more data points to the PP curve

20231124213708PP_curve.png PP_curve.png
glacial topaz
#

wait... sentro got heat curves
couldn't they also get that curve for you now?

floral drift
#

from FSD/Content/GameElements/Seasons/Curve_XPToPerformancePoints

for x in {0, 6000}: 2.75817×10^-9 x^3 - 0.0000502107 x^2 + 0.368637 x + 0

for x in {6000, 50000}: 3.55384×10^-12 x^3 - 1.00318×10^-6 x^2 + 0.0756449 x + 581.478

max PP return at 50,000xp is 2,300pp

acoustic scarab
#

Maybe. Last time we checked, only three values were set in the game files, and UE's built-in functions were used to interpolate between them

#

This is the first time I'm seeing the polynomials, though

floral drift
#

i used WolframAlpha to calculate the polynomials, using the technique i describe a few days ago for Heat Curves

acoustic scarab
#

If anyone wants to make a pretty line chart for that, be my guest

floral drift
#

hmmm... those two polynomials don't seem to match the plot you've made...

#

makes me think i did it wrong

acoustic scarab
#

See the sheets "S1 PP Curve" - "S4 PP Curve" for data

floral drift
#

🤔 i wonder if it's because WolframAlpha plots the x-axis more narrowly, squishing it horizontally

acoustic scarab
#

We can check on easy numbers. Factual data is 30 006 xp = 2 043 pp

#

Seems to map on your chart pretty well

floral drift
#

close, but not a perfect match

image.png
#

🤔 don't suppose that XP is rounded up?

#

y = 2043 when x = 29963.4

#

too large an error for rounding

acoustic scarab
#

I won't at all be surprised if the game produces fractional PP values based on that curve and then rounds them to an integer

floral drift
#

i would be more inclined to believe that i messed up the technique and the polynomial is giving bad answers. it's still fairly new and just starting to be used.

acoustic scarab
#

In any case, my data sets are open. I, however, am going to sleep

trail gust
floral drift
#

WolframAlpha for comparison, 0 to 50,000 xp:

image.png
trail gust
floral drift
#

well then. that matches my theoretical result somewhat nicely

floral drift
#

so, this does show it's not a 1:1 match. but it's a pretty close approximation 🤔

glacial topaz
#

Others data points to check if the value is like off by 1 point akways ?

timber drum
#

Am I going mad in thinking that shreader drones have total elemental imutiny? because I feal like my fire elementals are doing didly

jolly adder
#

How much does the densification ray on the wave cooker slow down enemies?

weary sonnet
#

50% for 1s

jolly adder
#

Does it stack with diffusion ray? Making a 90% slowdown?

weary sonnet
#

It should stack fully, it uses the pawn stat PST_MovementSpeed.

PST_MovementSpeed:
    Starting value: 1
    Stacking Type: Multiplicative
    Value Modification Type: Multiplicative```
#

Diffusion ray is a 20% slow though ie movement speed ×0.8

#

Need to fix that on the wiki.
Edit: Fixed

#

That means if you use both of them you have a 60% slow (ie movement speed ×0.5 ×0.8 = ×0.4 for enemies)

jolly adder
#

Does the 2 electric on EM Refire Booster benefit from the plus 25% damage tier-4 upgrades?

weary sonnet
#

It doesn’t, it is written on the wiki:

Conductive Bullets allows the weapon to deal an additional +30% Electrical damage to enemies that are under an electrical field. Electric damage does not benefit from this bonus.

jolly adder
#

Ahh thank you

weary sonnet
#

The bonus is written as 0.25 and 0.3 in different section, will need to fix that one though.
It was 30% before, it is 25% now.

#

Fixed on the wiki, still using the old value on karl.gg, will report it.

jolly adder
#

Dankeschon

floral drift
# jolly adder Does the 2 electric on EM Refire Booster benefit from the plus 25% damage tier-4...

EMRB is one of only two places where i've ever seen a FlatDamageBonus. the other one was Subata's 2nd T5.B, the +2 Corrosive Damage that replaced the Mactera Bonus Damage (before it was removed during the Subata rework).

FlatDamageBonus gets attached to DirectDamage components, but because it is outside of the main Damage and the DamageElements array, it does not damage Armor, and it is not affected by DamageConversions. presumably, it wouldn't be affected by Homebrew Powder either (didn't test it on Subata when I could have).

because SMG T4.B is a DamageConversion, it doesn't increase the damage of EMRB's +2 Electric-element FlatDamageBonus.

#

just tested; it does benefit from T4.A's weakpoint bonus.

jolly adder
#

Anyone know specifically the reload times for the LOK-1 and Stubby where they can be animation cancelled? I can't find anything on the wiki

trail gust
jolly adder
#

Thank you

gaunt cipher
#

FWIW, that is not perfectly accurate because it's done by hand. (Over many attempts, but still.) I am planning on redoing that with macros to test exact perfectly consistent timings, although I predict I'll need an environment where framerate is very stable or that will likely affect things at least a little.

trail gust
#

I think it's easier to just set a watch on clip count.

#

It will log timestamps of it getting full which is the moment of a perfect reload cancel.

jolly adder
#

Just feel I should mention, I don't believe the Boltshark's page states the specific numbers for duration/speed bonus from the "Battle frenzy" upgrade

tame plover
jolly adder
#

Gotcha, thanks

proper kernel
#

EM Discharge is the same chance as the base gun right? Or does it have some secret stat that's usually results in the same as the gun? I ask cause it seems to be lower then it should, which is probably a bug.

floral drift
#

the current understanding is that both EM Discharge and Turret Arc use the base gun's Electrocute % chance. each bullet has the listed % probability to "electrocute" the sentry, at which point the respective OC's effect will activate.

#

it's worth noting that for EM Discharge in particular, there's an internal 1.5 second cooldown between explosions. perhaps that's what you're noticing?

proper kernel
#

Cool, so it being seemingly lower then it should is a bug

proper kernel
floral drift
#

don't suppose it's as simple as T1.B not adding +25% chance when trying to electrocute the turrets?

proper kernel
viral badger
#

It feels different since the update, I would normally just fire a short burst (about 4 bullets) and trigger it ~90% of the time before the update
now I need to do longer bursts for it to work consistently, this is purely anecdotical but I've used it a lot since the update and it feels wonky

floral drift
#

🤔 the Maintenance Update patch notes said they tweaked Turret Arc's activation hitbox, didn't they?

Slightly increased the trigger size for the electric arc

makes me wonder if it's a hitbox reg issue on EM Discharge?

purely guessing

bold plover
#

It took me like 25 bullets to proc the electric chain sentry once, even with the chance upgrade.

#

Wasn't even testing it, was just trying to use it.

proper kernel
earnest bloom
#

the chance feels lower after update to me too, but I couldn't pinpoint why either. The fact that so many of us asked themselves this question makes me think there's something under the hood but I can't rule out a ias either 😩

earnest bloom
trail gust
proper kernel
jolly adder
#

Battle frenzy on the wiki states that kills with it will "reset the timer" but this doesn't appear to be the case in-game. Is this a wiki error or game bug?

glacial topaz
jolly adder
#

It doesn't say, just what I said above, and mentioning "chaining kills with the GK2 would make it laser accurate"

glacial topaz
#

i mean your testing, you mean it works like subata corrosive upgrade?

jolly adder
#

Wha? I'm lost

glacial topaz
#

no matter how many times you trigger effect, only first application is used for how long it lasts

image.png
jolly adder
#

What I mean is battle frenzy states that upon a kill with the GK2/Boltshark, for 2.5 seconds you'll have 50% more move speed and no spread, it states that the bonus doesn't stack with itself, but it also states kills will reset the timer, and chaining kills would lead to consistently minimal spread (and presumably high move speed)

#

And of course, my point is that in gameplay, this doesn't seem to be the case at all, kills made before the effect is over don't reset the timer, they seem to not matter at all. This can also be seen with Hot feet and Get in get out

proper kernel
#

How is miniguns maximum spread effected by accuracy modifiers? IIRC they have less effect on max then they do on min, despite being multipliers. Is this correct?

glacial topaz
#

accuracy ´page doesnt have that covered?

proper kernel
#

Didn't see it, but also might be blind or on the wrong page, let me check

#

From what I can see it doesn't give values for unrevved spread, nor does it mention how that's calculated in game

#

With Bullet Hell it seems the maximum is Not 6 times bigger then the normal maximum, but the minimum is 6 times bigger. Instead the maximum seems to be the same increase as the minimum, instead of being a modifier of the maximum itself. This seems to indicate that the maximum is a set value added to the minimum, then slowly removed as you fire. But I'm unsure about that inference so I asked here.

floral drift
# proper kernel With Bullet Hell it seems the maximum is *Not* 6 times bigger then the normal ma...

this is a correct observation. you are very, very, very close to being right.

the modifiers from Bullet Hell, Exhaust Vectoring, and T1.C all apply to the "minimum" value and not to the "maximum". that is because they apply to the Minigun's Base Spread (4.5 Horizontal, 4.5 Vertical IIRC). the reason why the crosshair is so much wider when it's unrevved is because of the Spread Curve:

https://deeprockgalactic.wiki.gg/wiki/Accuracy#Minigun_2

the Minigun's bloom starts at 0 when unrevved, and has a maximum of 3.5. (T4.C increases the Max Bloom to 4.25)

each shot fired adds 0.2 bloom, and in between those shots (1/15th of a second, by default, because RoF=15) it will decay the amount of bloom by 1/RoF * -1/sec = -1/RoF bloom = -0.0667 @ RoF 15. as such, by the time the 2nd shot gets fired, the bloom will have decayed from 0.2 down to 0.133, and then the 2nd shot will increase it by +0.2 to 0.333, and so on until it reaches the Max Bloom value.

where things get confusing for the Minigun in particular is that the Spread Curve it uses starts at 25, and decreases down to 0. that's a very counter-intuitive behavior. so, what happens is that whatever the value of the Current Bloom is, it uses that as the x-value to lookup, and then uses the corresponding y-value as how much to add to the Base Spread. when fully unrevved, and Current Bloom = 0, then it's adding a +25 penalty. when it reaches Current Bloom = 3 or higher, then the curve is telling it that the penalty is +0, at which point it has been reduced down to the Base Spread which is what actually gets modified by Bullet Hell.

proper kernel
#

Interesting, thanks for the information

glacial topaz
#

would it be good idea to add those missing information ?
even if separate minigun section

floral drift
#

technically, they're not "missing" from the Accuracy page. Spread Curves' behavior is enumerated in the Terminology section

#

i can see why it's not easy to understand the page in its current format. to some degree, it requires reading the whole thing before understanding the basics.

perhaps it would benefit more from reformatting, reordering the content, so that it reads more logically/chronologically?

#

or, maybe that info could be put into a section on the Minigun page itself, instead of a subsection in Accuracy?

proper kernel
# floral drift or, maybe that info could be put into a section on the Minigun page itself, inst...

I think a simplified version with a direct link to the accuracy page, with the exact terms to look for on the minigun page would be best.

A quick TL:DR, something like
"The minigun has a minimum spread of 4.5 Horizontal, 4.5 Vertical. Minimum spread is the value that is effected by spread modifiers, like T1C. After applying relevant modifiers the minigun then adds additional spread. Resulting in its maximum spread, which is minimum plus 25. When firing you start at maximum spread, and as the gun stabilizes the additional spread decays until you reach the minimum spread."

With links to the graph and the other information, and add a description to the graph showing what the values are.

#

A better description would include the bloom part, and how each shot adds bloom, which is what determines the scaling of the additional spread.

proper kernel
#

Just any description that shows that the minimum is what effected by spread modifiers, and the additional spread is not effected by the modifiers, instead just being added to that minimum.

tough depot
#

Do Clean OC upgrade icons have a slight offset in the Y axis?
I've composite this image using the center of the frame, and it seems a little bit off

Shotgun_Pellet_Clean_icon.png
weary sonnet
tough depot
#

-57 means 7% up from the center?

weary sonnet
#

This is -70% for reference on which side it is moved to.
So -57% should mean 7% up from the center yes.

image.png
tough depot
#

I'll figure it out on how to do that with magick, thanks

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I wonder if I could get this html to work on the markdown

#

Is the choice of setting frames to 100px and icons to 48x arbitrary?

weary sonnet
#

More or less, it is just so it looks good on the wiki.

shell frigate
#

Yep is just a suitable size for the wiki and a set size makes it much easier to setup the offset

#

Also 48x for icons is exactly half the res of the icons which makes it render better

weary sonnet
#

The css used for the clean oc is just
that:
For the frame:
<div style="position: absolute; top: 50%; left: 50%; transform: translate(-50%, -50%);">
For the icon:
<div style="position: absolute; top: 50%; left: 50%; transform: translate(-50%, -57%);">
It it just put in a div around the image tag.
For unstable/balanced OC, the translate are kept at -50%.

tough depot
#

Some icons are 256x, some are 128x and some are 512x

shell frigate
#

Ah sorry, it's media wiki that defaults to 96px rendering of images

tough depot
#

I'm having trouble to understand, as I don't know css

weary sonnet
#

Depends on the size of the icons you are using.

tough depot
#

I'm resizing the frame to 100px and the icon to 48px

weary sonnet
#

Move the icon 3.36px up then (or 3px if you need integers)
7/100×48

tough depot
#

Ooh, I thought it would be 57% relative to the frame

weary sonnet
#

Assuming it is centered already.

tough depot
#

Thanks

oi.png
weary sonnet
#

Oh, wrote 3% instead of 7, my bad, the calculs were right though.

acoustic scarab
short cloud
#

IIRC Mole doubles/triples it

#

I think it's triple but memory is a bit fuzzy about it

#

and if I'm not mistaken, the base dig distance for hardness 1/2/3 are 12/8/4 meters.

acoustic scarab
#

Added the dependence to the gun's page (without the numbers)

glacial topaz
#

for mole i am seeing "PenetrationDepth = 500" and "PierceDepthDamage = 0.5"
on the base gun i can see "PiercingDepth = 300"

short cloud
#

old stuff but still relevant I believe

15.JPG
tame plover
jolly adder
#

How long of a window is provided for triple tech chambers' extra shots feature?

floral drift
#

so, theoretically the 3rd shot could be like up to 1.98 sec after the first

floral drift
#

almost the maximum possible number of PP 👀

jolly adder
jolly adder
undone cape
#

From my experience, Creeper Vines will retract from any damage, but will only be destroyed from melee damage (including impact axes); taking about 4 hits. Can anyone confirm whether other damage types have any effect on making them go away forever?

(also, if this isn't the right channel for questions about mechanics' minutiae, please let me know?)

floral drift
glacial topaz
#

That is stabber vine, isnt it ? [User deleted message above mine]

dreamy hill
#

Yep

#

Just realized myself

dreamy hill
#

Second I realized I’d given wrong info I went to get rid of it

wicked cave
#

often good to leave the misinformation but edit/label it as such, so the next user that searches for it in Discord will turn it up as misinfo

undone cape
stone parcel
#

I listened to this voiceline and just realised that someone wrote down all "bla" accurately

Screenshot_20231129-230442-038.png
#

whoever this was, respect rocknstone

wooden arch
#

bla bla bla bla bla rocknstone

acoustic scarab
#

This is the kind of factual accuracy you can expect from us, yes

silent dove
#

They don’t get not paid for nothing

hasty vector
#

Hi there. How can i claim the ru wiki and become an administrator on it?

shell frigate
#

Had to look into it too see if it was just using English wiki Admins but no it's separate

shell frigate
hasty vector
#

Got it, thanks for the help, I'll do that.rocknstone

ivory violet
acoustic scarab
#

Placeholder voice lines from way back

ivory violet
#

I want them in game now :(

#

Like as rare response to management

acoustic scarab
#

There has to be a mod that adds them back

bitter basin
#

i left a mission with 0 minerals mined but it said i got 1 xp from minerals mined. how does that work? I also had 2 kills and 2xp for those but didn't kill anything?

#

does the sentry ammo round up? i have 515 ammo but half of that from resupply gave me 258, which is not half of 515. does the number round up somehow?

dreamy hill
#

Resupplies do indeed round up. As for the minerals and XP………..

Maybe the drop pod landed on a couple lootbugs?

short cloud
#

so 258

short cloud
bitter basin
#

I did not desposit @short cloud

short cloud
#

not deposited but mined

tame plover
bitter basin
#

@short cloud wiki says it has to be deposited

dawn moat
tame plover
#

IDK if failing the mission makes it not count

image.png
#

Tested again but I did deposit this time, I guess that's something I've been wrong about all this time

image.png
dawn moat
#

minerals mined but not deposited counted on mission success. i didnt deposit those yeast cones either

image.png
#

had a full 40 pocket of nitra, 5 apoca blooms, and the yeast cones which were undeposited

floral drift
#

yes, being alive in the droppod with minerals in your pockets will auto-deposit them before mission completion. failing the mission with minerals in your pockets will not.

#

i recall that there was some exception regarding Secondary Objectives, like boolos or apocas. something like "the auto-deposit doesn't complete Secondary Objective" 🤔

dawn moat
#

yes, that's how I've always heard it

viral badger
#

yes, you need to deposit or it won't count for the objective

bitter basin
#

i failed the mission (left afer like 10 seconds)

#

@dawn moat where it gives all the xp values for minerals. under the experience part of thw iki

#

wiki

dawn moat
#

the wiki never said pockets don't count but it's clear the wording should be better. should i edit the body text of that section or the note at the bottom of that section to add this info?

#

i put it into the notes for now but can move it later. i tried to be as specific as possible

undone cape
floral drift
jolly adder
#

I seemed to notice yesterday in sandbox mode that my sentry guns kept doing 9.8 damage per shot as opposed to the 11 it said in stats when using defender system, this was consistent on body shots against dozens of enemy types. What made it weird was switching to LMG MKII made it do 10.8 damage per shot, which was a 10.2% increase, despite the stats of damage per shot going from 11 to 13 which is an 18.18% increase. Is there something I'm missing or is there something up with sentries?

short cloud
jolly adder
short cloud
# jolly adder Does everything have it?

all enemies have armor to some degree, details can be found on the wiki.
Assuming you're hitting non-armored part, there's still the resistance scaling for enemies

#

enemies don't actually get more health, they get more resistances

#

so you're never actually doing the damage shown in the weapon stats, unless you're playing hazard 2 (scaling for resistances can also be found on the wiki btw, in the difficulty scaling page)

jolly adder
#

Ahh gotcha, thank you

earnest bloom
#

Does the kinetic damage from the cryo cannon Ice Storm OC deal bonus damage vs frozen enemies? I believe the frost damage from the cryo cannon doesn't deal bonus damage to frozen enemies but I couldn't find the weapon's tags(materials is the name iirc?) on the wiki page https://deeprockgalactic.wiki.gg/wiki/Cryo_Cannon

floral drift
jolly adder
#

The burst pistol has a fire rate chart based on actual fire rate and burst amount, but there doesn't seem to be anything for the pistol, is there anywhere reliable I can get this info?

glacial topaz
#

the subata ?

glacial topaz
#

from what I can see
"BurstCycleTime": 0.05
":RateOfFire": -4.0

jolly adder
#

Sorry did I just straight up call it "pistol"? Yeah the Subata, what does this info give me exactly?

#

4 rate of fire with a 0.05 second pause between bursts?

glacial topaz
#

the base 8, so yea

jolly adder
#

8 rate of fire with a 0.05 second pause?

glacial topaz
#

8-4 is 4, so 4 rate of fire

glacial topaz
jolly adder
#

Ahhh gotcha, thanks

glacial topaz
#

no problem

undone cape
glacial topaz
#

using modding tools, the modding server should help with that

weary sonnet
#

In particular FModel allows to browse the game’s file directly from the pak file without extracting them.
It should be enough for an occasional search.

glacial topaz
#

How is this (?)

image.png
weary sonnet
#

It may just be me, but I don’t find burst speed clear enough on what it does.

#

Maybe burst interval if it is the correct interpretation.

undone cape
#

thank you both! ^_^

glacial topaz
#

no problem

glacial topaz
weary sonnet
#

If you think it is clear enough, it may just be me.

glacial topaz
#

maybe Burst Delay
leaving as is, and can change again later

wooden arch
#

isnt 2-round burst gives armor shredding too

floral drift
glacial topaz
#

I can see a "BurstArmorDamageMultiplier": 8.0
considering it starts at 50%, that would make it 400% so...
it is the only one that multiplies, instead of adding ??
unless it is 850% instead

floral drift
#

i've tested it experimentally -- the two bullets combined do 450% Armor Damage. so, the 8.0 must be a multiplier, 50% to 400%

wooden arch
floral drift
acoustic scarab
#

I'm not against it being down there, since there is some value in having all these numbers next to each other.

#

But I'm going to change them to theoretical averages, since we know the exact ranges for each biome.

glacial topaz
#

Didnt we already had the range there ?? Which was already the "numbers next to each other" you value

glacial topaz
#

this is too weird... it was already added before by GoldMath, and removed by Arsoncat (after we added it to the biome pages)
so we basically going back in that decision ?

#

if anything it would be better to then have the range, and then the average next to, just weird situation altogether

earnest bloom
acoustic scarab
#

Do we know if the special Rockpox wave requires an intact lithophage spike to spawn?

#

In other words, does cleansing all the spikes stop Rockpox waves from spawning?

glacial topaz
#

as in, regular missions: no need for spikes to spawn
litho warning: Can not spawn after spike removal ?

analog rock
bold plover
#

Contagion Spikes have an integer value for total waves that they can spawn from being damaged. Afaik they do not affect the generic Rockpox waves from announced swarms which are added to the pool at a 50/50 chance when starting a mission. May be outdated info though.

acoustic scarab
#

My question was about the announced waves that are timer-based, e.g. in morkite missions

#

But I didn't know spikes can only spawn a limited number of local groups

bold plover
#

Yeah, every 30% of health missing will spawn a local wave, but only 2 in total per spike.

acoustic scarab
#

I'm kind of surprised we don't have a page for litho spikes

glacial topaz
#

if their info can fit inside an already existing page, no need for a whole new page, even more if it is gonna be a small one
similar to why machine events are all in 1 page, and not 4

proper kernel
#

Similar issue with the T1 ROF mod, in game its +4, but on the wiki its +3. So I'm assuming its out of date and just needs the values updated?

548430_20231205165003_1.png
tame plover
#

Karl.gg says 2x, so the wiki is probably out of date

#

And +4 RoF

proper kernel
#

So the +3 needs to be changed to a +4 and the +50% needs to be changed to a x2

#

Also whats the standard for the +? Should it have a space like manual heat dump, or no space like Thermal feedback loop?

image.png
#

Gonna change the values rn then, and gonna do x2 for the velocity.

proper kernel
acoustic scarab
#

If this is not on the style guideline page, it should be

proper kernel
acoustic scarab
weary sonnet
#

I will add it a bit later (1h or so), can’t right now.
Does this rule seems fine to you?

For upgrade effects in OC or mods, the signs plus +, minus - and x (letter) will be used for multiply.
For convenience when editing, the multiply sign × is not used.
When it comes to spacing, there will be no space after any of theses signs, no matter if what follows is a number or a word.

acoustic scarab
#

No rush, it can wait for longer than an hour

#

But while we're at it, I'd love a consensus on how to use thousand separators

#

19,500 - clear enough, but
2400 or 2,400?

#

Or 19 500 and 2 400?

tame plover
#

I prefer 19 500, since I learned to use ',' for decimals

weary sonnet
#

I would rather use space as well, but it is a french bias as we are using come for decimals here so not sure I am the good person to ask that.

#

"Operator usage in upgrade effects" added in the style guide, if you have a better name for that category, feel free to reword it.

acoustic scarab
#

But we state at the very top of the guide that we use American English

#

If that extends to numbers as well, we have to follow the 4,050.21 notation

weary sonnet
#

Official stance is to use thin space or space for thousand separator and either dot or comma for decimal separator afaik.
Comma as thousand separator are commonly used but are not recommended as they can cause confusion.

proper kernel
acoustic scarab
short cloud
floral drift
#

i haven't tested it in over a year. can't say for certain that bug still exists. but i expect that it does.

at its heart, it's because the STE that grants 25% fall damage reduction has no duration. thus, it has no "deactivate" condition, causing it to persist until getting Downed. i believe the code is written such that going Down removes all active status effects from the player.

undone cape
#

the uh
https://deeprockgalactic.wiki.gg/wiki/Health
the Red Rock Blaster lines on this table look to be showing the wrong health amounts? I wouldn't have noticed but the tooltip equation has a different result than what is displayed, and otherwise seems to be the correct value.

austere fossil
#

The amounts are how it ostensibly should work and the result in, but the beer is applied twice and thus results in the tooltip amount. I believe the column header's tooltip is meant to highlight this

The beer buff is applied twice, it was a bug that became a feature.

#

It might be worth reusing the strikethrough formatting used on the Abyss Bar page to make that more clear.

image.png
#

e.g. the final row with all the Health bonuses would be

178 221
(with the same "Beer Buffs are applied twice" tooltip that the Abyss Bar has)

#

That, or just invert them so the "in practice" total is the base text with the "non-bugged" total in the tooltip.

undone cape
#

I feel the strikethrough is more consistent and intuitive. The non-bugged amount is theoretical at this point, right, and with no indication when or if it might change? Putting that entirely in the tooltip feels like it'd still be confusing. Either both values in the same place with the strikethrough, or not displaying the non-bugged amount at all.

acoustic scarab
#

I feel the strikethrough is more consistent and intuitive.
It also feels like a Black Friday deal

jolly adder
#

Anywhere I can find the spawn percentages for broken resupply pods in salvage ops? As well as stuff like minimum and maximum amounts, how much/often it'll be a dud or a working one and such?

#

And if they spawn in salvage op missions in DDs

floral drift
# jolly adder Anywhere I can find the spawn percentages for broken resupply pods in salvage op...

i don't know the probability that a Broken Resupply pod appears. i know that they can have 0-2 Broken Resups per Salvage (including DDs, if the Salvage is the main objective).

i do know the probability of repairs:

  • 25% to get 0 resups (indicated by two resups directly across from each other on the pod, and then a dance as they shuffle in and out randomly for a few seconds)
  • 50% to get 1 resup
  • 25% to get 2 resups (indicated by the two resups forming a right angle with each other)
#

ugh, the terminology is ambiguous. i edited the message to indicate that a "pod" is the entire thing that can be repaired, and a "resup" is the thing that you channel E on to get ammo+health

jolly adder
#

I checled the resupply pod page (beforehand I checked the salvage op one) and are you sure that info is correct or is the wiki incorrect?

image.png
#

It doesn't mention spawn rate sadly

floral drift
#

from FSD/Content/WeaponsNTools/SupplyPod/BP_OldSupplyPod_Salvage

it doesn't elucidate on the exact "neither/one/both" probabilities, therefore i must infer that each of the two resups on the broken pod have an independent probability.

  • probability of (!A & !B) = (0.5 * 0.5) = 0.25
  • probability of (A & B) = (0.5 * 0.5) = 0.25
  • probability of XOR(A, B) = (0.5 * 0.5) + (0.5 * 0.5) = 0.5
image.png
floral drift
# jolly adder I checled the resupply pod page (beforehand I checked the salvage op one) and ar...

if i recall correctly, the 60%/15%/25% numbers came from ArcticEcho something like 3-4 years ago, when he had just cracked modding. he manually spawned 100 broken resups with 0.5 sec repair time, then repaired them and counted them up.

from a statistics point, getting 100 data points for a "per-cent" analysis didn't feel like enough to get good data. i would be more confident if the results were like... 1,000 broken resups repaired, but that takes a lot of time (even with 0.5 sec repair time)

#

here's the original message, from Oct 31, 2020.

#

i kept digging around. I eventually found a gamefile that inidicates the maximum of 2 broken resupply pods per mission, but nothing about their probability to appear. what's interesting is that they're listed as "debris" that's specific to Salvage Ops. i wonder if someone like @bold plover has insight into how debris gets spawned during mission generation 🤔

my guess is that during the mission load screen, similar to how it chooses an enemy pool for that mission, it chooses a pool of "debris" objects to spawn in the mission. it would generate that pool from all of the objects that can spawn in the biome, and then add Broken Resupply Pods to it for Salvage Ops. then it chooses a subset of all the candidate debris objects. if the broken resup pods are in that pool, then 1-2 will appear in the level. if not, then 0.

#

if that guess is right, then that would mean that biomes with fewer debris objects might have a higher probability to spawn broken resups?

#

and just some intuition on top: maybe the Complexity of a level affects how much debris can be chosen/spawned? so, perhaps a 3 Complexity salvage mission might have more probability to get a broken resup?

there's no data to support that, just purely guessing right now.

acoustic scarab
glacial topaz
#

I usually prefer changing the chance to see how it changes
like to get the cargo spawn rates, I modified the numbers instead of testing 1000 missions to count
at least if we know where the values are

cerulean berry
floral drift
glacial topaz
#

found the 0.8 and 0.2, and 0.5s
now to discover what values they should be

#

by found I mean "I can probably edit those for modding now"

#

maybe I should just make them 1 1 1 and discover how to spawn a few (cuz mission spawn chance is whole new test set from what I am seeing)

bold plover
#

I've been messing with debris stuff for a few months and it's a bit of a mess and has a lot of variations. I can look at that asset sometime today to interpret it.

floral drift
jolly adder
#

If plasma splash on the DRAK-25 causes 50% of damage to be applied to an AOE, does that means it benefits less from weakspot hits?

short cloud
jolly adder
#

So I've been handicapping my single target damage this whole time?

short cloud
jolly adder
#

Gotcha, thanks

bold plover
floral drift
#

oh well. science is built on being wrong rocknstone

#

i'm curious to hear how it all works, if that ever gets figured out

bold plover
#

There are a lot of systems at play, to simplify it all biome stuff is done separately than special mission features like that.

#

Debris Actors are used for biome generation and determine the placement, quantity, rarity, size, rotation and more of all biome features. Depending on what component they are attached to determines how they are generated as well. For example, Contagion Spikes and their boils and tentacles are instanced per Contagion Spike but they only generate if the infection source generates (main spike).

#

The debris system in general is used for all the minerals like Nitra, chunky slag visuals from explosions, Fungus Bogs goo, pebbles, etc.
Their files indicate what to spawn on, such as dirt terrain, rock terrain or can be specific like a specific material type and whether to do it only on map gen, when carved (dug), etc.

#

The min and max for old supply pods is 0-2, this is only as good as the amount search multiplier value is though. With a low multiplier the chances of generating one goes down as this is the iteration system for finding valid locations throughout the mission. Essentially if it fails to find a spot at position _ it will look for a new position until it either generates the selected quantity or it runs out of iterations. This takes into account max vertical angle, terrain placement components, important locations (effectively blockers to prevent overlaps for uplinks for example), potential space, influencer density curves, density in mission squared.

#

The 0-2 is just a random integer in range afaik, so a minimum value of 0 or a max of 2. The old supply pod asset is one of the few instances of a mission specific (Salvage) debris component being used.

#

All debris instances are held in DeepCSGWorld in different components and depending on an unknown quantity of meshes they will divide abundant resource models such as Nitra into multiple components, they are all instanced static meshes for maximum performance since individual components are much more expensive.

#

The game also has a unique system for debris instances that track gem types, this is how Aquarq light up the little crystals around them as an example. However, this system has a relatively small cap but I am unsure as to the exact number. At some point Aquarqs will stop lighting up crystals if there is a good amount of them, say 30+ or so. This is also used for Contagion Spikes, they have a unique tracker ID for blisters, boils, tentacles in relation to the Contagion Spike to determine total Contagion Spike health and health loss. Contagion Spikes will die if not enough blisters spawn and will adjust their health in relation to total tracked (owned) debris instances within a certain influence radius.

tame plover
tough depot
#

this number get rounded up or down?

image.png
floral drift
# bold plover The min and max for old supply pods is 0-2, this is only as good as the amount s...

first: thanks for the explanation. i love your work rocknstone

if i'm reading this paragraph correctly, does that mean that the "search multiplier value" is what indirectly determines the probability of 0-2 Broken Resupply Pods appearing? a higher value means it will spend more time trying to place one, a lower value means it might give up if its first attempts fail, etc.

is it known what factors affect the "search multiplier value"? mission length, complexity, biome, other?

floral drift
tough depot
#

Thanks

bold plover
floral drift
tough depot
#

Sorry, my game takes to long to open cause my cpu is bad and I'm using an HDD 😦

floral drift
tough depot
#

Double thanks

humble flicker
humble flicker
floral drift
#

when was the last time that anyone got more than 1 Compressed Gold Chunk in a single mission?

i used to regularly get 2 of them on 6-egg missions, but i think the last time was like S01 or something 🤔

shell frigate
#

Guess it was finally fixed, iirc it was set in files to only be one per mission, though been a long while since I checked

jolly adder
#

Hey can someone explain to me the extra 3 electric damage from electrifying reload exactly? I'm struggling to understand, is it every shot from the GK2 does 3 extra electric damage on targets affected by electricity from the reload?

image.png
bold plover
glacial topaz
jolly adder
#

Ohhh gotcha, so effectively every GK2 shot does an extra 3 damagic electrically?

glacial topaz
#

looks like it

acoustic scarab
uncut oyster
#

Hey got a question!

On the wavecooker on karl.gg, T4a has this as the text

"Press Reload to toggle Wide Lens Add-On off/on. When activated, x1.25 Shot Width in exchange for +110% Heat Generation (this penalty is currently bugged and not affected by other upgrades that affect Heat Generation)"

#

What does the heat generation part mean?

#

like does it make the -20% heat generated mod just not work or what's the thing

glacial topaz
#

uh, I think the wiki gg have the more updated understanding

#

base heat is 1, the widelens add + 1.1 and the -20% is -0.2
there is also a 0.13 heat per buttom press (so tap firing adds more heat)
max is 3.1 heat for overheat

uncut oyster
#

So either of the T4 mods aren't bugged and work correctly with how the they handle heat?

glacial topaz
#

not bugged afaik

floral drift
#

hang on. there was a very, very, very long conversation about this a few weeks ago.

floral drift
uncut oyster
#

👀

floral drift
#

TLDR: CWC's T4 heat penalties are applied after Blistering Necrosis' multiplicative penalty

#

so for the additive effects (T2.A, Liquid Cooling System) T4 mods work as expected since it's also additive

#

but the formula works out like this for Blistering Necrosis:
(Base Heat - T2.A) x Blistering Necrosis + T4

#

that's the bug listed in the Karl.gg tooltips. i should go update those to clarify that the buggy interaction is specific to Blistering Necrosis, as it's currently the only multiplicative effect.

uncut oyster
#

Ahhh, alright, yeah I thought that the T4 mods made it so t2a wasn't worth it, and thus I always picked t2c for faster cooling instead of slower heat build up

undone cape
acoustic scarab
#

I too have migrated here from #suggestion-discussion a few years back. It's just as cozy, but with less repetition and more tangible results 😄

undone cape
#

Doing a tedious and repetitive task to brute force reverse engineer eminently-spreadsheetable mechanics that probably could just be datamined or are already on the wiki is unsarcastically my jam.

I keep hoping to sink my teeth into a game's underlying systems and not let go, but usually I find my efforts to be completely redundant and unnecessary when I eventually start checking its wiki, and so lose interest in figuring out what makes it tick since any contributions I make would be pointless.
It is a rare treat to discover something with a thriving community that hyperfixates just as deeply but hasn't obviated everything yet. 🌞

acoustic scarab
#

Doing a tedious and repetitive task to brute force reverse engineer eminently-spreadsheetable mechanics that probably could just be datamined or are already on the wiki is unsarcastically my jam.
Oh really?
Boy, do I have something that might potentially interest you.

#

Something in the shape of several spreadsheets, that smells like a relational database, and is a couple thousand rows long~

undone cape
#

Do tell??! 🤤

acoustic scarab
#

Long story short, I've been gathering statistical data on every mission I play (I play 99% solo). I've got records about Nitra amounts, waves encountered, presence or absence of most random events in each mission, when and how often refinery pipes jam, how many minerals large chunks contain, that kind of stuff.

#

I've done some basic data analysis on the data set, but still have a few things I could check. I've been meaning to finish it and release my finding for... about 5 months now. Life gets in the way.

#

It's pretty cool how close I got to the formulae with some metrics. For example, based on a sample of 578 missions, Korlok had an empirical spawn chance of 5,0173% (29 out of 578).

#

And even with all the variables and moving parts in the refinery jam mechanics, on average in a 4-dwarf team, one can reasonably expect the jams to happen at 40%, 70% and 99% progress

#

No wait I looked at the wrong column.

#

The wait time between any two jams averages out to 30%

glacial topaz
#

didn't we cracked the refining jams already, being 35-55s range for 4P
with data being used as confirmation

acoustic scarab
#

You certainly did a lot of work on that

#

But hey, it would be a waste not to keep track of that since I already keep track of a hundred other things

#

So anyway, I can share the dataset if you want @undone cape . I think you'll find it quite juicy

undone cape
#

certainly! It sounds like it'll take some time to absorb, but afterwards I also play 99% solo and can take add'l notes as I play. That sounds right up my alley. ^_^

acoustic scarab
#

Do we not have promotion costs anywhere on the wiki?

viral badger
acoustic scarab
#

Ah, no wonder I missed it

#

I think either the caption "Promotion Cost [Expand]" should be aligned left, or we should add a sub-header (that'll be left-aligned)

tough depot
#

How does stingtail's armor work?

short cloud
glacial topaz
#

I think the values weren't add to it, for some reason

tough depot
#

Ok, thanks

glacial topaz
#

it is 50 hp btw, let me see about adding

tough depot
#

Can its tusk be considered unbreakable armor?

glacial topaz
#

how is this

image.png
acoustic scarab
#

One of those numbers has a space, for the other I copy-pasted a thin space from Wikipedia

tame plover
#

Top is normal, bottom is thin?

weary sonnet
#

Thin spaces are also non-breaking.

#

ie they don’t allow the number to be split in two different part if the content is too long for a single line.

acoustic scarab
#

I thought of that, yes. But I would've just used &nbsp;

weary sonnet
#

At least they should be.
We can use normal non breaking space if they are easier to access, since there don’t seem to be any big visual change.

acoustic scarab
tough depot
#

Is courage and fear immunity the same?

weary sonnet
#

Not quite.
Courage is a fear resistance, it reduces the probability for enemies to be afflicted by a fear effect.
Fear immunity as we call it on the wiki is an enemy that completely ignores the fear mechanism.

tough depot
#

What about the spreader guy

image.png
weary sonnet
#

Some enemies with a high courage but not a complete immunity can only be feared by some guarantee fear effects (any ennemy not immune, but with a courage of 1 or more).

#

That infobox isn’t filled properly, I will fix it.

#

It should be that way

image.png
tough depot
#

Thanks

weary sonnet
#

It should be fixed now.

tough depot
#

What armor does the spreader have in front of the abdomen?

acoustic scarab
weary sonnet
#

Probably heavy armor, I will check.

#

20 armor strength

#

Light armor (× 0.8 damage taken)
With 20 armor strenght.

tough depot
#

Thanks

weary sonnet
#

Added it to the infobox.

undone cape
#

I don't think the costs for Quick Fire are displaying right. I went to the template page to edit in the 70 enor pearl, but it's already listed there in the html. So I'm not sure what's going on here.

image.png
weary sonnet
undone cape
#

Question: the wiki wording for Magma Core hazards is

"The quake may crack the ground open, exposing large crevices of Magma Rock. "
with "may" - does this mean that not all quakes cause a crevice?
because if so, are the possible crevices predetermined or finite in some fashion? That's sort of what I've been assuming is the case for both Magma Core and Glacial Strata, but with the quakes in Magma Core being infinite as time progresses, is it going to (try to) crack in more and more places forever?

suppose tl;dr would be, what is known about the underlying mechanics for crevice generation?

weary sonnet
#

Afaik all quakes will cause a crevice. Seems not.
There is some pre-places invisible crevice that will trigger when you walk on a specific location.
Not sure about when theses are spawned.
For the rest I can’t answer, but I am pretty sure others have more information about that than I do.

#

I know it is possible to get several crevices in the same room if you spend a lot of time in it, I got about 10 in the same room at some point.

floral drift
acoustic scarab
#

I've definitely experienced tremors that did not result in a crack opening

#

I also vaguely recall a conversation here where it was stated that crevices more or less track the player and do not open in locations where noone will see them

weary sonnet
#

What I wrote was from memory, I am by no mean sure of it, with the two of you saying otherwise, I am probably wrong.

weary sonnet
acoustic scarab
wicked cave
#

(kudos as usual to AssemblyStorm)

jolly adder
#

Normally I'd just go in sandbox and check this myself but I can't get on my PC at the moment. I came to ask, if I use battle frenzy on the GK2 with electrifying reload, will targets dying to my electricity trigger the effect?

short cloud
jolly adder
#

Ah shame, could've been massively exploitable

acoustic scarab
#

Oops
Wrong channel!

#

My deepest apologies

mystic geode
#

Oh I was saying this is crazy to the images.

#

Not the fact they were sent here.

analog rock
mystic geode
#

And it wasn't me that even sent them.

acoustic scarab
mystic geode
#

Isn't that chat just full of Warhammer 40k?

short cloud
#

out of curiosity, does anyone know the current limit for attackers on a pheromoned enemy ?

tame plover
short cloud
tame plover
short cloud
#

(on the grenade)

tame plover
#

I think so

short cloud
#

alright, thanks, just wanted to make sure I was reading this right

short cloud
tame plover
#

It's from SplitSentro

#

So if you find something weird ab the pheromones I am sure they'll have an explanation

short cloud
#

I was just comparing two things

#

but then I cleared it up

tough depot
#

Do lethal enemies deal more damage to dotty and hack-c?

#

And how swarmer tunnel exactly work? Is it just a proximity check?

acoustic scarab
#

It's a proximity check that spawns 1 to 3 groups of swarmers with delays in-between

tough depot
#

Is the lootbug's pathing known?

floral drift
floral drift
# tough depot Is the lootbug's pathing known?

not necessarily known, but i remember seeing some variables about seeking out loose mineral chunks less than x distance away, pathing to it, trying to eat it, and then a cooldown. in the absence of loose minerals, i have no idea how lootbugs would pathfind.

tough depot
#

Is it to the closest? Does the number of mineral chunks influences?

bold plover
bold plover
tough depot
#

I see, thanks

tough depot
bold plover
#

That's a bit vague.

floral drift
#

does shooting yellow OG healthbar with EmDet, then reload, damage yellow hp?

floral drift
tough depot
floral drift
#

i mean. you could just launch the game and test it yourself, y'know? 😆

tough depot
#

I did, I was on sandbox testing some builds and randomly tried using ED on OG Dread, it damaged yellow hp and I thought that was weird

#

As I don't remember reading anything about it on patch notes

#

And it didn't damage before, from my memory

tough depot
short cloud
#

might be a bug that got overlooked

bold plover
#

It is considered health internally, not armor.

uncut oyster
#

Actually I specifically remember it not working on the Zhukovs embedded detonators

#

does it only work for the subatas?

humble flicker
#

how is Corruptors long-range attack calculated?
because i was on the other side of the map while the rest of my quad team was dealing with a corruptor (Elimination, btw)
and by some dumb curse a corruptor spike appeared out of nowhere and popped the cocoon

i always thought the spike spawned using proximity...

tough depot
pastel crest
#

so do i find spot that connecting tunnel

tame plover
pastel crest
#

Nvm i just suck at reading map

acoustic scarab
#

Can anyone confirm whether the Webbed status effect is removed by a timer (you stay webbed for X seconds) or by movement (you have to walk X meters while webbed)?

#

It seems from my observation that it's just a flat 8-second timer

short cloud
#

because I've got it removed many times without moving an inch

acoustic scarab
#

Y-yeah, this could use an update 😄

image.png