#wiki-related-chatroom

1 messages · Page 6 of 1

trail gust
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not when there's exclude

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when there's none - perhaps yes

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exclude really blocks both re-atomization and direct application

sterile crescent
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I see

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For now, how about this:

"Status effects cannot be inflicted on your your teammates or allied entities (such as glyphids tamed using [[Beast Master]].). However, attempting to transfer status effects from an entity to an allied entity will still mark them as if they had received some of their statuses. This results in them becoming "carriers" for these status effects, which can then be propagated from them afterwards."

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With "some" having a hoverover listing the valid effects, at least until The Big Status Table™️ can be made

trail gust
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pretty much correct, however in fact I can't say for solid that this is the case with nones and I can only guess just a few such stes from permitted ones

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and it doesn't make sense to do that with those anyways

sterile crescent
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I think, given the absurd complexity of this already, we can get away with slight imprecision here

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At least until the status page is updated to allow for more precise referencing

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Densification ray does not appear to have Tag data on it

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I presume since you can smack a dwarf with it, its not an Exclude

trail gust
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it's just that it's limited with cooker itself, but as for re-atomization from a creature to dwarves then yeah it seems possible

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not like I tried

sterile crescent
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mmk

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I'll skip it for now, just to avoid people trying to use it and failing

trail gust
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you can apply it directly to steeve - I see that in the table

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that kinda proves it

sterile crescent
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Ah, good point

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Will add it then

trail gust
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could be usefull to troll your mates without shield I guess

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though it lasts only 1 s anyways

sterile crescent
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Better than the "oops all goo" thing you could do before

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From the to-be-trolled's perspective, anyways

trail gust
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we have what we have

sterile crescent
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There

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Not saved yet, but this is what it appears like from the main page

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And the dropdown:

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Oh, forgot the AoE Persistent Plasma status

trail gust
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I haven't seen "ANY" getting re-atomized where it shouldn't get re-atomized either

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it's like exclude but the opposite, i.e. "include"

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that's about dazzler - Shard Diffractor's mod - it has ANY

sterile crescent
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Updated

trail gust
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though I'm not sure about such operations for any of those effects anyways

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besides shard diffractor edit, you can also add that "while in contact" pop for plasma and sludge puddle results in dwarves secretly obtaining those status effects

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that's like #1 use of re-atomizer in terms of power

sterile crescent
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I'll add that in another edit; feels like an "additional bullet point" thing

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The hoverover and ally transmission matches your research though?

trail gust
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just saw you talk about "carriers", that's exactly what's happening with puddle effect on dwarf

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just dazzler has any as I said

sterile crescent
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yeah, I'll re-use the term, just want to keep the edits on a per-topic basis

trail gust
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and I've never seen any getting transferred where it shouldn't

sterile crescent
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So if revisions/fallbacks need to be made, they're easy enough to do

trail gust
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in other words dazzler is very likely invalid in that list

sterile crescent
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Ah, gotcha

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Changes saved, feel free to give em a peek

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Onto the AoE effects exception

trail gust
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I think it can't be called just "status" cause it's similar to "state", instead it is "status effect"

sterile crescent
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Fair point

trail gust
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particular effects inside STE are called status effect items internally or the same "status effects" in initialized STE as stated in STE structure in info sheet

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also dreadnought doesn't really possess armor, it can be called "shell", and it's merely "overhealth", not the armor we know that has light, heavy and indestructible types

sterile crescent
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Yeah, true; the wiki's "health" page just denotes it as a shield value, and glancing hits which only deal damage to armor plates fall into that category too

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So I left it broadly applicable to any "health did not change" form of damage

trail gust
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mole's description nearby is also incorrect btw

sterile crescent
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Oh? I'll fix it after I finish adding the AoE status effects point

trail gust
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I haven't measured the exact amount of damage bonus (so probably trust 150), however the thing with getting it off creatures is gone since long ago

sterile crescent
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Ah, you're right

trail gust
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only terrain counts now - the easiest way is to ask engi to put 5 platforms pillar, then drill holes with autocannon from the top and it will be a great setup for dealing 500-600 damage per shot

sterile crescent
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Yeah, LazyMaybe mentioned that in one of his videos on the subject, I just assumed the wiki was at least up to date with his several month old videos lol

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I'll fix that momentarilly

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I rewrote the article to use "carrier" and "host" terms, to make things a bit more succinct and (hopefully) clearer

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Actually, "targets" is less weird than "hosts", one sec

trail gust
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lasts sentence probably should contain "that normally impossible"

sterile crescent
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Second revision

trail gust
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and also still dot missing in the second sentence

sterile crescent
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Thanks, fixed both

trail gust
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and it's not entering, it's the opposite - it's leaving

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while entering applies active to whom it's allowed to apply

sterile crescent
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Ah, gotcha

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Corrected

trail gust
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see in the table - I say leave or jump from a puddle

sterile crescent
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yeah; its 1am here, words are starting to blend together

trail gust
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and when entering does apply status effects, leaving only pops the effect and doesn't initialize it cause it's already set up from entering

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"pop initialization" only applies to friendly creatures and dwarves in case of plasma and puddles

sterile crescent
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Thats such a spaghetti code way of handling AoE statuses (sorry devs)

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At least, from what we can see on the outside it appears to be

trail gust
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on entering it goes "push" operation, on leave it goes pop
push can't add active status effects directly when there's none in tag limitations

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but pop when trying to remove uninitialized effect smhow initializes it without active effects

sterile crescent
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True; it kind of makes sense from an optimization standpoint

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Instead of checking every so often for whether someone should still have a status effect, just update when they leave the area applying the effect

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Just results in jank like this sometimes

trail gust
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and if that microwave slow thing is what we think it is, then it will be applied as active to mates

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that contradicts one of your statements there

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moreover, it's not that "active statuses" cannot be transferred, it's more that they can't be activated upon transfer, while it's indifferent whether you transfer active or inactive effects (originally active or inactive on source entity)

sterile crescent
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Or could be transferred to, not inheritted

trail gust
sterile crescent
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Yes, so if I shot steeve, followed by you, and Steeve had the Micro-slow, you would (briefly) be slowed, and become a carrier for it later?

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Or something else?

sterile crescent
trail gust
sterile crescent
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ok; yet more consistent inconsitency

trail gust
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because there is no tag limitations for that ste

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it's just that cooker can't hit dwarves directly and that's the only thing that stops it

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but re-atomization can hit dwarves however

sterile crescent
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It can, it just doesn't apply any of its (many) status effects

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Its big-ass Cylider absolutely can hit your freinds

trail gust
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it does damage to dwarves?

sterile crescent
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Yes

trail gust
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alright

sterile crescent
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Play with someone w/ both the radius increase mods

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You can hit a teammate whose standing to your side

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Let alone if they're trying to hit you

trail gust
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perhaps i recall some cases in my experience

sterile crescent
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For the sake of my sanity only posting certainties, I'll leave the microwave out for now

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Until we can test to be sure

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Frankly I would not be surprised if its yet another exception

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Revision v1000

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Ignore the "your your", I corrected it

trail gust
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the armor thing is still there

sterile crescent
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Yes, but for most people that is what the Dreadnaughts overhealth is

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I don't see a way to describe it otherwise without confusion

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The Health page describes it as "shields" for context

trail gust
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you know, heavy armor and bulbs/sacks also have hp and can take damage

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so if you damage praet's armor but also damage hp it will result in success

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while you say here it'd fail

sterile crescent
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No, because you are still damaging their health. Its the health damage that transfer it, not the armor damage. Hitting the armor alone would fail

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I'll calrify though, one sec

trail gust
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it's just worded that if you damage shell or shields then no matter what else you damage it will fail

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also when a dwarf dies I don't think he looses initialized effects

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though it does deactivate most effects with few exceptions

sterile crescent
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I'm going to rely on the technicality that they're not currently dead, just very close to it and very unhappy about it

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More so because its nearly 2am and I have to present a critical meeting at 10am

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So I'm tidying it up for now

trail gust
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aight you could also mention patrol bot mb

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it looks ok now tho

sterile crescent
trail gust
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forms of "overhealth" then

sterile crescent
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"Main" health is a bit vague, but I don't see another succinct way of defining it otherwise

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Because weakpoints and the like

trail gust
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internally it's subhealth iirc

sterile crescent
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I don't think the Rock-pox Glyphid Tide-Pod blisters can transfer status

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Since they deal damage by proxxy

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Ditto with BET-C's suckers

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Though the suckers themselves can get status, so thats a moot point

trail gust
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uhmm transfer how

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directly or via re-atomization

sterile crescent
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Hit a blister as the target for a re-atomization

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Does the host of the blister get the status

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I'm pretty sure not

trail gust
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it's not easy to hit only blister, but tbh blister counts as creature's armor, hence it belongs to creature itself

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however necrosis blister should be the opposite

sterile crescent
trail gust
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bet-c parasite is not one with bet-c itself that's true

sterile crescent
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I don't even want to think about how Necroblisters come into this

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That overclock in and of itself is probably the second most convoluded, and stacking its quirks with this one is something most scientists would deem "unethical" and "an abomination to the craft"

trail gust
sterile crescent
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So weak-points

trail gust
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it's all part of armor - real armor, not overhealth

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destroyable weak points

sterile crescent
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How the hell does Prat armor work, then? You can trim the bastards bald with the m1000 and they are just peachy keen

trail gust
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are armor

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yeah you deal damage to armor hp

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it's called heavy armor or hp based armor

sterile crescent
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Yes, I recall

trail gust
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but it's different from overhealth as it does receive damage bonus from armor breaking

sterile crescent
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Point is that hitting it does not cause damage to the main health of the prat

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At least not on its own

trail gust
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and armor bugs apply to those destroyable weak points as well

sterile crescent
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yeah, I knew that; armor break is jank across the board

trail gust
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so blisters are not really different from bulk's bulbs

sterile crescent
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Does that mean having armor break mods makes blisters/weakpoints pop faster then, or is that accounted for?

trail gust
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and if you hit one it will transfer I think

sterile crescent
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Ok, so because it results in damage to main health, it still transfers

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Presumably

trail gust
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hp damage is still mandatory thou

sterile crescent
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Yes

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Back on topic

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"Both the carrier and target must take damage to their main health for the status to transfer. Damaging only their shields, armor, or other forms of sub-health (such as the shell possessed by a [[Glyphid Dreadnought]]) will fail to transfer any status."

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sub-health is general enough to get the gist across, with the Dreadnaught example being the one most people will be going to the wiki to determine

trail gust
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pretty much

sterile crescent
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Hiveguard is an exception, because of course she is

trail gust
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there are also vents for caretaker however caretaker ignores everything anyways

sterile crescent
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But I can figure out how to make that apparent later

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Can't caretaker be pseudo-frozen like all robots now?

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She just doesn't give any way to know

trail gust
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it does have temperature component vulnerable for freezing at least

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but status effects component contains IgnoreAll flag

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which prevents any effects activation, however you can still see them initiatilized on caretaker itself

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I mean you can see with special tools, not like from player perspective

sterile crescent
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Fair

sterile crescent
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Where they take 2.5-3x damage

trail gust
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yeah you can freeze caretaker

sterile crescent
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Yeah, hence "pseudo-frozen"

trail gust
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and 3 out of 4 vents will get triple damage

sterile crescent
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Like the rolly pollies

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Why only 3

trail gust
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and perhaps some eyes as well - I saw it melting from ice storm once, thought it also had that frozen scale multplier, but could be wrong

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ye idk that's how things work ™️

sterile crescent
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Lovely

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Thats a bug at least, and presumably not intended

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So I will refrain from updating the wiki

trail gust
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you just go with Ice Storm on top and freeze caretaker with Cold Radiance

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the fastest way to deal with vents tbh

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like really, except mb c4s

sterile crescent
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Fair; seems like having scout on Freeze duty would be better though, with Driller being on C4 and heat to keep robots supressed

trail gust
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you need to freeze like 2k degrees

sterile crescent
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Thats getting into strategy discussion though, and frankly I am far from min-maxed with IS

trail gust
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and you need to apply ice storm directly

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kk

sterile crescent
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btw, out of curiosity, why don't you post any of your research on the wiki?

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I don't mind doing it (with your permission, ofc)

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Just curious why you haven't already

trail gust
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I'm not familiar with wiki functional and I don't wanna spend time learning wiki stuff, I better test more things in game and reflect in some better view anyways

sterile crescent
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Fair enough

trail gust
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you can tell that the one creatures stats table - when it got transfered to wiki - it became worse

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while it was super nice as google sheet

sterile crescent
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oh? I'd like to see that

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I don't mind looking into fixing up templates/formatting if its possible to do so

trail gust
sterile crescent
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I see what you mean

trail gust
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sorting, filtering and other stuff, even creatures hp scaling is absent

sterile crescent
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You can sort; just click on the header

trail gust
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though there is one single database for creatures' stats on wiki now that is being used by all the pages

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so like one change goes into all pages at once for creatures

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at least that's how I got it

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resistances are in one cell - there was just yesterday or a few days ago complaint that there's no way to filter resistances by group - piercing, explosive, etc.

sterile crescent
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Ah, that what you mean

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That seems like a reasonably quick fix tbh

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I'll look into if, after Re-Atomizer hell and work is dealt with

trail gust
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and idk mb you're not familiar with all the things that you can do via "Filter Views" in google docs

sterile crescent
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Not Google Docs specifically, but I am a data scientist by trade, so I know the pain of not having those features

trail gust
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that's actually Elythnwaen's table, feel free to contact him if you wanna contribute there

sterile crescent
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Will do

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Later though; I need to sleep now. Talk to you later

trail gust
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k, good night, thanks for listening and interpreting

sterile crescent
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If anyone has general feedback on the Re-Atomizer OC section as well, please feel free to ping me (or edit it yourself, that works too, I don't mind)

trail gust
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I don't think anyone's that interested in that particular page, but sure

sterile crescent
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More just "general formatting" things, or the like

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Eventually someone will stumble across it lol

trail gust
# sterile crescent

oh and btw - transfer not all statuses, but only permitted ones that didn't get blocked by MaxResistance or EXKEYs or tags' exclude / ALL / ANY

dawn sedge
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Hey there

what does the Huricane minlet oc's damage scale off? (Sticky mines for the rocket pod)

st, aoe or separate?

short cloud
dawn sedge
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x2.75 area jeah just found it thanks alot you're quick ^^

tame plover
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' The first BET-C will explode, the second one however will simply collapse.' What does this mean? Is it talking about the Charge-Suckers? It seems weirdly written.

image.png
analog rock
tame plover
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Haha, that was fast

rigid parrot
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Which wiki is the official/most updated one if there's any? wiki.gg or fandom one?

trail gust
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Wiki.gg is the official one right now. Forget about fandom.

glacial topaz
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considering only gg has official on it
what made you consider fandom was possibly being official ?

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if people aren't able to tell which is the current one
seems we have a big problem to solve

rigid parrot
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Well call me a boomer but i just typed deep rock galactic wiki and clicked first search result 😄. Have been using it since then. But anyways i will start using GG one, good to know.

trail gust
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well it's easy to spot the official one I think

rigid parrot
acoustic scarab
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No, most people click only the first result if it looks relevant enough.

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It's not about being able to tell the difference, it's about our habits around search engines.

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I think it was Etsy's CEO who said in an interview that if your business doesn't show up on the first two pages of Google Search, your business doesn't exist.

short cloud
glacial topaz
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that would require them to land on that page
aren't they more likely to just end on the content they are looking for ? and then use search / links

acoustic scarab
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Some reading comprehension is required, yes.

cerulean berry
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yeah no one is going to the front page of the wiki if they have something specific they are looking for. searching "drg twins", for example, results in only fandom as the top result and wiki.gg isn't present anywhere on the first page of google

shell frigate
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The main wiki page is the most popular page by far

cerulean berry
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vs any other individual page yes, but a user is still more likely to end up on page that isn't the main page

earnest granite
short cloud
shell frigate
cerulean berry
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as in number of pages viewed, but not specifically which?

glacial topaz
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out of those 10 page, the main one is only 18% of the views
point is, people are more likely to view a content page, instead of main one

shell frigate
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But if there was average of 7 page viewed per session would mean almost everyone looks at the mainpage each session

cerulean berry
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amusing the user is traversing the wiki randomly? i'm skeptical such a model would be representative of an actual user session

shell frigate
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Main page is a good starting point, unless you want to assume there is a lot of people just visiting the main page and only it

echo parrot
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what are unions about? do you get any special buffs out of them or do you just get the credits and such. whats the difference between the three?

bold plover
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Just minerals and credits. They have different goals based on their main theme.

short cloud
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that's about it

echo parrot
glacial topaz
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the part of goals changing based on the theme is completely new to me
when was that part added ?

short cloud
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the goals are all selected within a common pool randomly and the chapters have no influence

glacial topaz
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"They have different goals based on their main theme."
this part is what confused me

short cloud
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simple as

glacial topaz
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I would probably work more on that page if it wasn't a "leftover" feature
such as adding the challenges / weights

short cloud
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This month's goals for CC were to mine minerals, and for Dirt Diggers, it was killing bulks.

You'd expect it to be the other way around if it worked like that.

acoustic scarab
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Fun fact: the Nemesis death bombs target Doretta is she's in range

20230127000327_1.jpg
glacial topaz
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Targets being targets

echo parrot
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lol that is backwards. im trying to find the color/theme differences but I suck at google

short cloud
echo parrot
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gg is way better than fandom but they only have a couple games, so i didnt check there, THANKS!!

glacial topaz
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well, not like it is their fault xD

short cloud
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the .gg wiki is the new official one for DRG

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so that's the one you wanna check

echo parrot
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i appreciate that! that is gonna solve so many questions

short cloud
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no problem, have a good read

sterile crescent
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I've seen it try and bomb Steeve a few times too

sterile crescent
echo parrot
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whats the fastest way to get new skins]

acoustic scarab
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Buy upgrades for weapons and armor

short cloud
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or buy the DLCs, even faster

glacial topaz
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I thought it was a question on how to get all skins the fastest way
but it makes more sense as "I want to get a new skin, anyone, how do I do that"

tranquil hazel
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Is anyone else having issues with the new wiki? It takes a long time to load, is full of ads, and even scrolling is super delayed and slow. I haven't seen a website this laggy since like the early 2010s or something. And this it the drg.wiki.gg website, not the fandom wiki. The fandom wiki always loads fast, has barely any ads, and is very responsive. I don't understand why everyone switched to this new wiki

analog rock
tranquil hazel
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Everyone claims to be getting ads that cover the whole screen and I've never had that

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can i post screenshots here? I can show you what the fandom wiki looks like compared to the new wiki from my point of view

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i swear the new one is worse

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much worse

short cloud
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I think it says it all

analog rock
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And the switch was made mostly because Fandom is becoming a pain to edit, is extremely buggy on the editors side, and has a very aggressive "common theme" policy, in addition to being almost impossible to customize to fit the theme of the game.
Add to that the constant links to off topic content, and you have it.
(And the ads, oh the ads)

shell frigate
tranquil hazel
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This is what the fandom wiki looks like for me: I count like 2 ads. Page loads fast and is very responsive when scrolling

Screenshot_13.png
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wiki.gg for me. Website is super laggy and takes forever to load

Screenshot_15.png
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it seems more cluttered too

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like bruh how can a website be laggy

short cloud
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I wouldn't be surprised if it was an issue with chrome alone

tranquil hazel
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rip

shell frigate
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Red = Ad Space
Green = Useless Space

image.png image.png
tranquil hazel
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why is the fandom wiki more responsive when it has more ads tho

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makes no sense

shell frigate
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Notice Fandom Also has an auto playing video

analog rock
cerulean berry
analog rock
tranquil hazel
cerulean berry
analog rock
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My bad, misunderstood that part.
Use a browser that doesn't eat your memory like its candy ?

cerulean berry
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i recall it being mentioned here a couple times before so it's not an isolated issue

tranquil hazel
shell frigate
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Are other wiki.gg wiki's fine for you?

analog rock
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🤷 I don't know, I don't have that...

short cloud
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if it was, nothing much we could really do about it though

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But yeah, Chrome is notorious for using a lot of RAM

tranquil hazel
shell frigate
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Just wondering if our fancy blur background is causing issues for you, though not heard anything about that before (other than someone on an ancient firefox version not seeing it at all)

short cloud
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I personally wanna add that the wiki.gg runs slightly worse for me as well but not to the point it's an issue (using Firefox)

glacial topaz
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working fine here even though I have tons of other stuff open
is there even an objective way to measure that delay ?

tranquil hazel
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I wish there was lol

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oh well

cerulean berry
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@tranquil hazel do you have any extensions? does it behave the same if you open it in an incognito window?

tranquil hazel
tame plover
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.gg wiki also feels kinda slow for me. Scrolling feels choppy. I do prefer how it looks over fandom

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It's a chrome issue

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Firefox works fine

glacial topaz
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which page looks better over fandom ? do you have visual examples of that
what browser is being used ? I see
so maybe it is on chrome side, and not something we can do ?

tame plover
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the drg .gg wiki looks better than the fandom one. It's a bit choppy but only on chrome

shell frigate
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If you want to help us find the cause you can look at performance in chrome dev tools, start a recording and then share the results

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I've done so before, mainly with Firefox and greatly increase the performance without a noticeable visual change

tranquil hazel
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hmm interesting

cerulean berry
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curious if running document.body.style.backgroundAttachment = 'scroll' in the dev tools console changes anything with scroll responsiveness

tranquil hazel
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Ok I ran a benchmark with the chrome dev tools and got these results:

image.png
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Notice how the total blocking time at the bottom is pretty high

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i'm not entirely sure what that means, but I'm guessing it has something to do with user input being delayed or something?

shell frigate
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There is quite the bump on the timeline at only one point, drag to select only that timeframe

cerulean berry
tranquil hazel
tranquil hazel
cerulean berry
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ah the console

tame plover
shell frigate
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Sure

tranquil hazel
shell frigate
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The odd thing is I did do testing with edge (another Chromium browser) Surprised only chrome has this issue

tranquil hazel
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Interestingly, if I reduce the size of the window, scrolling is no longer laggy lol

tame plover
tranquil hazel
#

If I scroll around, my CPU usage spikes from like 5% to 30% lmao

tame plover
shell frigate
#

My own results doing this (which I why I need you guys to do it)

image.png
tame plover
shell frigate
#

Actually there is a save profile button so you could send the full results here

tame plover
#

No weird data I shouldn't be sending in there?

shell frigate
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At most should tell us what extensions you have that touch the page

tame plover
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None, did this on a separate chrome acc

tame plover
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at least I think it does

shell frigate
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Huh In that report, Cpu Usage doing the peek:
40.8% = Twitter Widget Code
17.9% = Paint
13.8% = Composite Layers

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But there is not a twitter widget??

tame plover
#

The twitter thing definitely loads a bit slower than everything else

#

there is

#

This right?

shell frigate
#

Ah well that may explain why my Chromium test is diffrent

image.png
tame plover
#

Lol

sullen veldt
#

i want to start uploading images of unused drg content since the page is very outdated, does anyone know if drg historian uses actual models or fanmade ones for things such as the shieldovercharge grenade before i upload this

shell frigate
#

Pretty sure they use the actual things

sullen veldt
#

great okay

shell frigate
tame plover
#

A lot better.

#

Still doesn't feel super smooth though

tame plover
#

I kinda enlarged the window during this one so that might mess with some stuff

shell frigate
#

Am looking into it, though unfortunately chrome does skimp on the details

#

Most of the time was spent on Composite Layers
But it can only give detail on 5.2ms of the 3973.9ms

image.png
tame plover
#

Don't know what that means. Is there any way I can get more of the details?

shell frigate
#

This is the kind of detail I've been working with for Firefox

image.png
tame plover
#

It says this in console : 'DevTools: CPU profile parser is fixing 1 missing samples.' Does that have anything to do with it?

shell frigate
#

Nah, it's just a limitation of chrome's tools

tame plover
#

ok, I don't know anything about this stuff so I can't help you figure it out. I gtg now ping me if you need more info and I'll send it tomorrow. Cya

shell frigate
#

Might not be anything more that can be done, see ya

tame plover
#

I'll just use firefox

slate bramble
#

That's a solid plan in general tbh

sullen veldt
#

ive found a folder with a lot of early concept art for creatures, not sure how many of these images are already on the wiki though

sullen veldt
#

ive finished uploading images of early and cut content to the wiki, dunno how to add them to the page myself but if anyone finds them feel free

trail gust
dawn sedge
#

Subata: Does Explosive Reload benefit from Volatile Bullets (bonus vs burning) and if so, does the bonus attach on application or reload popp. ?

Couldn't quite find a thing

glacial topaz
#

considering the damage isn't affected by anything, it would be really odd for it to be affected by that specifically

trail gust
#

ER damage is fixed

dawn sedge
#

nvm subata is just terrible

floral drift
gaunt cipher
#

So, poking around in the Ripper's files-I found a "InitialSpeed" of 300, which seems like it's probably the speed that the ripper travels at upon leaving your hand before actually deploying on a surface.
More importantly I found the value "SpeedCof" which is set to 1600, and I'm like... 99% sure that that is the value that determines max movespeed of a ripper.
I tested it by racing the ripper with scout's grappling hook in slow motion, and when scout has 2250 retract speed, he's pulled noticeably faster than the ripper moves. When scout only has 1500 retract speed, the ripper moves just a bit faster than him.

So, I'm pretty positive that 1600 aka 16 meters per second is the movespeed rippers roll at.
There's a "CRV_WallSaw_SpeedOverTime" file which I thought could be related to its acceleration, but I don't understand how it works. They seem to accelerate very quickly, at any rate.

trail gust
#

I did some tests in experimental version, and I concluded near the same:

Top speed: ~16.(6) m/s
Traveling Distance: ~130m

gaunt cipher
#

Should definitely include how, if you pop a blister within 3m of the creature it's on, you get a status effect that inflicts 35 per tick, duration of 2 seconds, 70 infection total.

#

effect is "STE_Plague_WeakpointPopInfection.uasset"

trail gust
#

real duration is 1 s btw, cause one tick happens instantly and another one happens at 1 s mark, and there's no tick at 2 s mark

#

though I think if you pop another one right after that, duration will be prolonged, but tickrate stays the same, hence it will do that tick at 2 s mark then

gaunt cipher
#

yes, but that goes for ticking status effects in general. they all have the instant tick and then no tick at the end

#

like stubby DoT does 3 every 0.25s for 3 seconds, so you'd assume 12 ticks total. and the instant tick at the start doesn't actually change that, it's still 12 ticks

trail gust
#

and I saw info that this stuff can differ for clients

glacial topaz
#

some specific variable to help find out if there is a last tick or not ?

bitter mango
#

Real quick, is it possible to find a regular bulk at the start of a mission?

#

Not a crassus, a regular bulk

glacial topaz
#

so basically if Bulks can spawn as part of map generation, instead of a wave/ swarm

bitter mango
#

Pretty much

#

But specifically regular bulks

#

Ik the crassus ones can spawn as map gen

gaunt cipher
#

I don't believe regular bulks can be mapgen spawns.

bitter mango
#

That's was I believed but a bunch of ppl in general kept insisting that they can be

glacial topaz
#

aren't they confusing announced swarms with normal waves ?
like, just because the mission control didn't say a wave is happening
it doesn't make enemies not spawn

bitter mango
#

I did clarify it afterwards and one replied "I know"

cerulean berry
#

enemies spawned at map gen are "encounters" (with the exception of things like special events) and detonators have CanBeUsedInEncounters set to false

bitter mango
#

Thanks!

floral drift
gaunt cipher
#

By the way, it's been so long that it would be kind of crazy for this to be incorrect at this point... but it's true that you can only get fully rockpox swarms on mining and refining missions, right?

floral drift
#

i do not possess that knowledge.

there are some inferences to be made, though. Rockpox Swarm can only spawn during missions that both have Swarm events and Lithophage Warning.

so that rules out Elimination, Salvage, and Sabotage (due to no Swarm events).

like you say, Mining and Refinery are for sure candidates.

Egg Hunt, Point Extraction, and Escort... like, they match the criteria (can have Lithophage Warning, can spawn Swarm events), but i genuinely don't know if they can generate a Rockpox Swarm for their event.

it could be worth looking in the unpacked gamefiles; sometimes the warnings and missions have Blacklists about what can't occur or spawn

gaunt cipher
#

I was poking around in the files earlier for that info but I'm not very proficient with them.
Anecdotally, I have never seen rockpox swarms on egg/PE/escort.

glacial topaz
#

another path could be modding the rockpox swarm chances

floral drift
#

anecdotally, neither have i.

found something in Content/GameElements/Objectives/Plague/OBJ_WRN_Plague. not a Blacklist, but it confirms that Rockpox Swarm is tied directly to the Warning exclusively, and that its weight is 8. so, if we know the weights of other swarms, we can guess about how rare they would be.

the actual swarm itself is in Content/Enemies/Waves/WaveControllers/EWC_SW_Plague_RockpoxInfectedEnemies i think, but again no Blacklist that i can see.

#

unexpected Nick Cage reference 😆

image.png
glacial topaz
#

found those middle last year, not sure if changed, for ME

Dread = 0.25
Grunt, mactera, praetorian and swarmers = 1 (each)```
floral drift
#

8 / (12 + 1 * 4 + 0.25 + 8) -> ~33% chance for Rockpox Swarm?

gaunt cipher
#

Oh, here's a small thing not noted on the wiki: rockpox larvae die shortly after successfully hitting a player.

#

It actually says wrt normal larvae: "Larvae attack by leaping at a target to deal contact damage, as well as exploding on contact to deal additional damage in a small area." I have never observed them doing damage when they burst after hitting something, and I'm not seeing it happen right now in testing.

#

Pretty sure they both just die after hitting a player, not as any kind of explosion thing.

gaunt cipher
#

Actually, hold up-why are normal larvae doing 17 damage to me with their jump bite attack on haz 5 4p, and 10 on hazard 4 1p?

#

That doesn't line up with what the wiki says at all, and implies their base damage is 5. But looking at their melee attack component, it looks like it's 9?

floral drift
#

when was the wiki article last edited? maybe it was sourced from S3P0 info, instead of present-day S3P12 or whatever we're on

#

i know that GSG retuned several of the Rockpox enemies, blister resistance, etc

gaunt cipher
#

I'm talking about carnivorous larvae, not rockpox plague larvae.

floral drift
#

from the Parasites warning?

gaunt cipher
#

yes

#

They're doing way more damage with their bite than the damage numbers the wiki has. And, as noted, when they explode themselves it does no damage to me at all.

#

Also, the wiki says the (nonfunctional?) AoE attack has 1m radius, 0.5m max damage radius, and 25% minimum damage.

floral drift
gaunt cipher
#

But this certainly looks like parameters for an AoE attack for them, but it's 1.5m radius, 0.75m max damage radius, and 50% minimum damage, if I'm reading it right?

image.png
#

...is it possible that this is what the melee attack is actually using? It'd be closer at least, to explaining the 10 damage haz 4 1p attack... but it should be 20 damage on haz 4 1 p, in that case.

#

Unless, due to a bug, it's always getting that 0.5 minimum damage?

floral drift
#

AoE damage bugs 😒

gaunt cipher
#

2 physical + 8 poison damage is 10 damage total. (NVM, read it wrong, it's all poison damage but 2 is direct and 8 is radial.)
10 * 3.4 from haz 5 4 player scaling would be 34 damage... and then if that's cut in half, that'd lead to the 17 damage I observed.

floral drift
#

DMG_Poison is resisted by Engie's Armor T3, right?

gaunt cipher
#

I'm gunner

floral drift
#

which class were you for the test?

#

no Autocannon, Shield, or Coilgun 50% resist?

gaunt cipher
#

nothin

#

It'd make some sort of sense that, if something intended to be used as an AoE attack is instead getting pulled for the damage values of the melee attack, that it wouldn't function properly. Could just always be registering as far enough to do "minimum damage" due to melee attacks not registering hits in the same way that AoE attacks do.

#

Also, maybe this explains why the actual intended AoE attack does no damage.

#

The damage that it's supposed to do is instead applying to their melee attacks.

#

And then the damage melee attacks are supposed to do is getting applied to... nothing, seemingly, since there's no other attack for it to go on.

#

Oh, here's something weird... engie doesn't resist this attack, despite it supposedly being poison.

#

this just gets stranger and stranger, i have no idea what's going on with larvae atm

#

It's doing an amount of damage that only makes sense if I assume it's using those AoE values and always minimum damage from falloff, except it's a melee attack and is seemingly melee typed.

sterile crescent
gaunt cipher
#

Plague larvae are doing the same amount of damage and also have a useless AoE burst move, too.

sterile crescent
#

I don't have the tables to validate that, though

gaunt cipher
#

I've done this as both gunner and engie, exact same damage taken by both.

#

But lemme try taking off their armor mods.

sterile crescent
#

Doesn't engie also have 50% poison (elemental) resist?

#

So it could be classifying the damage as both "explosive" (incorrectly) and poison (correctly)

gaunt cipher
#

That's true, it could be.

#

Still 17 damage when gunner doesn't have reactive armor equipped.

sterile crescent
#

Very odd

gaunt cipher
#

Same for engie.

#

Yeah, I'm definitely thinking right now that like... either the attack is pulling values from the AoE attack, leading to 10 base damage and an erroneously applied 0.5 multiplier from "falloff"(and maybe explaining why the actual AoE attack does nothing), but still being melee damage type...

#

or it's pulling 5 base damage from somewhere, and something else unrelated is breaking the AoE attack.

sterile crescent
#

Since "true" radial damage does not

#

Dwarves just don't have weakpoints, so it never comes into play; maybe it would slightly buff the damage against a pheromoned target?

#

That is entirely speculation, though; I think there is a weapon that works similarly we could compare with though

#

Blanking on it right now...

floral drift
# sterile crescent My best guess, based on this table, then, is that the "UseAreaOfEffect" flag cau...

i do not believe this to be a correct interpretation.

current understanding of the flag "UseAreaOfEffect" is that it enables using RadialDamage for that DamageComponent. it does not make the Damage act like RadialDamage.

scattered around the files are several DamageComponents that have a RadialDamage value set, but because UseAreaOfEffect isn't set to true, that RadialDamage has no effect in-game.

sterile crescent
#

Ah, alright; thanks for clarifying

#

Very weird then

bold plover
#

You can have 20 damage components with radial damage enabled and they won't work.

#

It entirely depends on what component is having the function called to damage the target.

#

Basically they don't work unless told to with the game logic. Wouldn't be hard to test by disabling the bite.

#

This is usually done through their AI Controller, which will call attack components by a specific name such as "melee", whatever component that is assigned to that will be used. So it is entirely possible that larva do not have the damage component assigned to the melee attack component.

#

Melee component (is a damage component itself with extra data) is doing 5 physical direct, damage component is 2 poison direct and 8 poison AoE.

#

And I think physical damage increases with difficulty which could lead to the 17?

gaunt cipher
#

Yup, 5 physical tracks across what I saw-10 damage on haz 4 1 player, which has 2.00 enemy damage scaling. And then haz 5 4 player has 3.40 enemy damage scaling, which leads to 17.

floral drift
#

Banagement FTW rocknstone

gaunt cipher
#

Don't know why I was unable to find that 5 damage value, but I am just poking around in UAssetGUI rather blindly. I assume the damage component with 2 poison direct/8 poison AoE(same one I saw) just isn't assigned to anything, then.

bold plover
#

5 is the default value for damage components, so the value change would not be listed in the asset since it does not differ from the C++ info.

gaunt cipher
#

aaaaaah

bold plover
#

Essentially all values seen are for things changed from the default.

gaunt cipher
#

Is this just an attack component that also isn't getting called, then?

image.png
bold plover
#

Melee Attack Component IS a damage component, it just has extra information such as animation montages and extra things like carving.

#

The behavior tree shown earlier is calling the melee attack component which is what has the 5 physical direct.

gaunt cipher
#

Oh, I see, it's variant 9, not value 9. The value is that Jump which goes over here, and then it's using the default of 5 since it doesn't specify anything else.

image.png
bold plover
#

Variant refers to the index inside of import data.

#

nvm

#

was thinking of something else, been a while since i used uassetgui

#

Variant 9 is a link to the export, exports are essentially every component on an asset.

gaunt cipher
#

Yeah, I noticed as you were typing that that was export 9.

#

Well, that's one mystery solved, thanks much. I suppose I should probably file a bug report on that suicide attack that doesn't actually do damage...

bold plover
#

New Blueprint is considered class default.

#

It is not actually called new blueprint in-game, this is just from a child asset of the larva that I did not name.

cerulean berry
#

variants can also be negative which means they're pointing to an import instead. been meaning to create a nicer interface for exploring deeply nested objects as it quickly becomes annoying to do by hand

bold plover
#

Ah, so I was not entirely wrong, yay. 😆

sterile crescent
#

Just want to check here before I edit the wiki; has anyone else managed to kill a Korlok weed without the sprouts also dying?

bold plover
#

yes

sterile crescent
#

I just had a match where we detonated a Bulk Det underneath one, killing it instantly despite it being in its "invincible" state

#

Just want to confirm that wasn't a one-off glitch

#

It left all the sprouts alive, and the wiki says nothing on that "tactict"

bold plover
#

doretta can kill it too

sterile crescent
#

Yeah, thats documented in trivia

#

Good to know there are other ways to do it tho

glacial topaz
#

is that a property of destroyed terrain, meaning you can pull it off with satchels and drills ?

cerulean berry
#

pretty sure that's a result of the detonator killing the sprouts and opening the core and making it vulnerable on the same tick

sterile crescent
#

Maybe, but the sprouts themselves didn't die after the core was killed

#

They were still active, and hapilly spat at our teammates

#

A decent number too

#

So it feels more similar to the Doretta-like interaction, where its just a coded check

#

I'll hop into sandbox mode quickly, plop one down, and spam C4 to see

#

Regardless of what happens, its a notable interaction tho

#

Loading in now

#

Yup, so even if its hover 30 feet in the air, it doesn't die

#

So I guess if you kill it on the same tick it opens, it bugs and doesn't kill the sprouts

austere fossil
#

ah, and a more recent confirmation, thanks

sterile crescent
#

yeah, no go

#

The det must have just been lined up just right to instantly kill all the needed sprouts and the korlok itself

#

Yet another "stupid dwarf trick" to add to the list

sullen veldt
#

i uploaded a handful of images yesterday, anyone here have basic cropping skills and a bit of free time

mighty pond
#

Hi Rock and Stoners. I’m one of the admins for the path of exile wiki, one of your community members reached out to us regarding our browser extension which redirects clicks on fandom links into the good wiki links

#

Would not be a lot of work to make it work for your wiki, if that’s something you’d be interested in. It’s open source and works on all browsers

balmy dawn
shell frigate
#

Certainly up for it

mighty pond
#

If you want to do it yourselves and publish it, I can drop the repo and you can fork it

#

Otherwise I’ll take care of it

#

I’ll take any chance to kick fandom in the nuts

#

Do you guys have a github org or anyone have an account that I can add as a admin/maintainer?

mighty pond
#

Done

#

I'll grab another coffee and record a video then publish them

mighty pond
# 
Status: Pending review```
# 
0 minutes ago by Add-ons Review Team```
#

Chrome + Firefox

sterile crescent
#

Thank you for setting this up; I eagerly await it being approved

mighty pond
#

No worries. This can be adapted for any wiki that moved away from fandom basically

#

And we’re happy to help

#

I’ll make a Reddit post when they are both approved

acoustic scarab
#

Vindication is a great motivator

#

Thank you for your effort, Boii

mighty pond
#

Rock and stone

pure fjord
#

I get the wiki contributer role if I contribute to the wiki correct?

trail gust
#

it was like 1000 edits iirc

pure fjord
#

Oof

#

Imma have to get to work then…

silent dove
short cloud
trail gust
trail gust
#

Sludge Pump's T5A Protein Disruption Mix adds x0.75 movspeed STE item to STE_GooProjectile_GC without AffectedByResistances flag, unlike base x0.65 STE item & unlike HIA OC's x0.85 STE item. Thus, Oppressor with 66% corrosive resistance gets full x0.75 movspeed multiplier from T5A mod.

glacial topaz
trail gust
#

STE_InsideDropPod (which gives 99% Dmg res) lasts ~40 s starting with Drop Pod spawn at mission start, players get unlocked at ~12.5 s mark, which results in ~28 s of increased resistance after you get control over your character. This might be different for hosts and clients, call me if you want to check that case as well. I only checked in solo for now. It was ~37 s when I was manually spawning drop pods while in-mission.

glacial topaz
glacial topaz
trail gust
#

Agree

glacial topaz
tame plover
#

Enables your weapon to load up to 9 missiles and launch them at once! As an added bonus the overloaded exhaust ports increase missile velocity and boost damage based on how many missiles are in the salvo. However the missiles in the salvo cannot be guided.

How much is the missile velocity increase? The wiki only gives a formula for damage and the in game the stats don't mention this. Only the OC description mentions this.

trail gust
#

Hold down the trigger to load up to 9 missiles into a single shot. Salvo Missiles have their Starting Velocity and Max Velocity increased to 20 m/sec by default. For each missile added to the salvo, all missiles deal more damage up to +4/+4 at 9 rockets. In exchange, manual guidance is disabled for all missiles in the salvo.

tame plover
#

ah thanks, I didn't check there

short cloud
glacial topaz
#

the sentences are "Red salt - though worthless - tastes really good on Glyphid omelettes."
and "we are now serving Glyphid Omelettes in the mess hall!"

short cloud
#

I'm just saying that the part outlined in red make little sense.

glacial topaz
#

it says the name "glyphid omelete" is just a way to call a regular omelete, not made from gliphids
oor that the mission egg, is called glyphid omelete by them

acoustic scarab
#

A KPI like the number of edits can be gamed pretty easily

pure fjord
gaunt cipher
trail gust
#

From my STE Spreadsheet:

That flag allows creature's elemental resistance reduce amount of slowdown it gets from that particular STE.
The resistance's element matches STE's DamageClass.

#

I tested that flag many times, didn't encounter anything unusual.

#

I can do a test, if you're not sure.

gaunt cipher
#

Sure, I certainly wouldn't say no. I recall seeing dreadnought movespeeds that were close to, but not quite what I expected based on their elemental resists. But something might have been off with my methodology.

trail gust
#

What STE slow do you intend to apply on dreads? Or I can choose any? I'll test some after I finish watching your vid nice

gaunt cipher
#

Any's fine. Electric, the slow from the SD/wave cooker mods, goo, etc

#

I remember something was weird about sticky flame slow with and without the mod to increase it

marsh osprey
glacial topaz
#

it is known, issue is that there was no grounds for calling it a bug

short cloud
glacial topaz
#

given Alien Eggs purpose is unknown it is conflicting to consider it is being used on ommeletes
it is more likely it is just the nickname of a food

so that could get some editing, if anyone has ideas for it

short cloud
glacial topaz
#

afaik suppositions aren't the be part of the wiki
even more when there is conflicting parts

short cloud
#

Then you're better off removing the whole thing I guess

glacial topaz
#

or could point out to the conflicting nature, showing why it is more likely to be a conflicting fact

sterile crescent
#

I think its still worth clarifying that non-salvo missiles remain guide-able, and that "single missile" salvos aren't a thing

#

Since I know many people confuse that, especially given its an unstable overclock, and is supposed to have a downside (at least in most peoples' minds)

#

The "potentially a bug" was a poor choice, though, granted

trail gust
#

@gaunt cipher I completed my tests and only discovered that STE_Diffusion_MicrowaveGun doesn't work when you aim Colette at heavy or unbreakable armor (but it works when aimed at protrusions and shell instead). Everything else went as expected.

short cloud
trail gust
#

I confirm that.

gaunt cipher
#

Thanks. My issue earlier was probably a combination of not knowing the STE DamageClass for various options(for instance, cooker slow mod being a kinetic STE despite cooker being fire/radiation damage... weird), and possibly some incorrect math.

trail gust
mighty pond
#

Still waiting for chrome review

#

Let me know if there’s any bugs

#

Alt + W opens a search box

civic pond
#

Huuli Hoarders' resistance to stun seems to be missing from their wiki page?

#

Or would this not be normally listed anyways

weary sonnet
civic pond
#

Gah, my bad, didn't think to click on the other tabs next to "Weaknesses"

weary sonnet
#

Np, asking here was the good reaction if you didn’t find something.

mighty pond
#

The chrome extension got rejected, some technicality. I’ll try to fix and resubmit asap

worldly salmon
#

I’m a bit confused looking at the health page, because the listed values imply red rock blaster only multiplies base health by 1.3x when it is listed to multiply the base values by 1.69x on the beer page. Was this an error on the fandom wiki?

tame plover
worldly salmon
#

im not looking at the fandom page.

tame plover
#

I see what you mean. There are some dots below the values affected by red rock blasters so there might be a disclaimer somewhere on the page about it. I am on mobile so I can't find it.

#

Those values were probably chosen because red rock blasters IS supposed to give x1,3 health but all beer effects are aplied twice

#

so 1,3 x 1,3 = 1,69

worldly salmon
#

the dotted lines don't seem to indicate anything, as they don't send to a link anywhere. I assume the dotted line is supposed to indicate that the new health value is only taking the base health of 110, multiplying it by 1.3, and then adding the armor mastery/healthy modifiers after that, as it describes under the table. Regardless of what the lines indicate, the values are not accurate to the actual health values in game, as far as I'm aware?

#

they would be accurate to how the game describes the health values on the beer, though. I just think its a bit odd to list the values as if they aren't bugged

tame plover
floral drift
# worldly salmon I’m a bit confused looking at the health page, because the listed values imply r...

there are all sorts of shenanigans going on with beer buffs.

#1: when applied via the dev console, it does in fact only apply once. red rock blaster is x1.3 hp, as advertised.

#2: when applied via drinking the beer mug from Today's Special, the buffs apply twice, aka x1.69 hp.

that's why it's listed both ways in the wiki. the "buff" itself is only x1.3 hp, but because players' only way to acquire it makes it double-apply, the decision was made to list its effect as x1.69. for reference, look at https://deeprockgalactic.wiki.gg/wiki/Abyss_Bar#Today's_Special

it shows the intended value in strikethrough and then the effective value. there's also a hovertext over the two numbers to explain that the effects apply twice.

glacial topaz
#

got curious if cause is buff applying on space rig and then when loading mission
which probably would mean you would get it 4x if buffs didn't clear on mission end ?

floral drift
#

🤔 i don't know. i don't have a way to test that either.

it's worth investigating, though.

sterile crescent
#

Wouldn't just result in exponential health in deep dives? Or do Deep Dives purge and re-apply it after each mission?

glacial topaz
#

x2.8 HP for stage 3 if that were the case, which I think would be very noticeable ?
perhaps it is just purged on loading the rig

sterile crescent
#

That wouldn't even be the most noticeable, Tunnel Rat would just make fall damage 0 in stage 3

#

Which someone would have noticed by now, surely

#

Stage 2 for scout

#

Assuming it stacks additively like all the others seem to

#

(If it does, Safety First makes him immune to fall damage completely with base Tunnel Rat; going to test that now)

bold plover
#

it does make immune with safety

sterile crescent
#

Brilliant

glacial topaz
floral drift
tacit oxide
#

Any info about how the subata mods affect the damage of explosive reload?

short cloud
eager condor
#

Couldn't find anything on the wiki clarifying this, so,

How does Goo Bomber Special on the Sludge Pump interact with Better Air Pressurizer (increased velocity).
Does it create a longer charged shot trail?

thick pelican
#

It goes further but as a result each individual puddle is a bit more spread out from the other

weary sonnet
#

About the health page it is probably worth updating it for the 1.69 multiplier now that we know this bug is staying.
(Can’t do it now on my side.)

mighty pond
#

Looks like the chrome extension is going to take a while to update, google changed some things and I need to update accordingly

#

Most likely I’ll do it next weekend, but if anyone else has time they can also do it

floral drift
# thick pelican It goes further but as a result each individual puddle is a bit more spread out ...

following up on this. when I asked Dagadegatto about Sludge Pump GBS, he said the formula was to drop a new fragment every 0.03 + (Projectile Speed x 0.00002) seconds. so, at the default speed of 15 m/sec (aka 1500), GBS is expected to drop a fragment every (0.03 + 1500 * 0.00002) * 15 = 0.9 meters. T1.B's +40% velocity would raise that to every 1.512m.

so, with the same number of fragments but dispersed further apart, that does make the trail longer. similarly, getting T2.B's +4 fragments (which GBS turns into +6) will also make the trail longer.

sterile crescent
#

Does anyone know if the DRG wiki (or Wiki.gg at large) currently has access to the mediawiki DataTables extension? I know Fandom did, but Wiki.gg does not currently have a dev wiki (or any documentation whatsoever)

#

It would make porting the Big Status Table™️ much easier and less clunky if it does

shell frigate
#

The Datatables mediawiki extension was last updated 2014

#

Or is it another?

sterile crescent
#

Datatables2 was made to supplant it (very creative name); I just asked for the former since it was what popped up when I looked for any documentation on the subject.
See here for the documentation on it for Mediawiki: https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:DataTable2.

#

Fandom only had documentation on the original datatables package, so I missed that the update to datatables2 occured, sorry

#

(I keep using Fandom's dev wiki because it just works, and wiki.gg lacks any dev wiki or documentation; this isn't me mixing up the old Fandom wiki with the new Wiki.gg one)

sterile crescent
#

So, doing some quick (and frankly scatterdash) tests, it seems that the DRG wiki does recognize the "datatable2" class for table formatting.

#

It ends up looking like this, when the following code is used:


{| class="datatable2"
|-
! Header 1
! Header 2
! Header 53
|- 
| {{FULLPAGENAME}} 
| content
| more content
|- 
| [[Deep_Rock_Galactic_Wiki|Link To This Wiki]]
| even more content
| I love content
|}
image.png
#

Note; this seems to the default table format when "class" is not valid (why it doesn't raise an error or something, I do not know)

#

So it could be that as well

shell frigate
#

Was not around for a bit

sterile crescent
#

np, just tinkering atm

shell frigate
sterile crescent
#

Seems to be, if you don't specify a valid class parameter

#

class="wikitable" gives you this instead, for context

shell frigate
#

What is this needed for? as we do have Cargo for a DB / Querying

sterile crescent
#

Primarily to allow the user to filter on a per-column basis (as would be valuable if you wanted to see what statuses could effect dwarves, or which statuses worked with Bullets of Mercy, for example)

shell frigate
#

That is a nice feature to have

sterile crescent
#

I believe Cargo can't paginate the table either

#

Which would result in a massive, bloated table

sterile crescent
shell frigate
sterile crescent
#

Fair point

shell frigate
#

Well assuming others are up for it we can look into it

sterile crescent
#

I would appreciate it, and if its possible here I suspect other wikis on wiki.gg could benefit from us helping them with it as well (in particular the Path of Exile and Terraria wikis)

#

They have large tables that would benefit from such filters too

mighty pond
sterile crescent
#

Oh, my bad, sorry

glacial topaz
floral drift
#

grammatically, it could be phrased as "Weapons have their own modifiers that further reduce friendly fire"?

#

i'm guessing that edit was made because of the tests that LazyMaybe and I were doing on Saturday

glacial topaz
#

just to get it straight
explosive FF gets 3 multipliers ? hazard x weapon x explosive

floral drift
#

negative. as of the tests LM and i did 2 days ago, we found no evidence to support that Explosive-element damage has an innate 50% FF modifier. what we did find was that many sources that do Explosive-element Radial damage also have 50% FF.

does the distinction make sense? it's not the damage element that provides the resistance, but rather the DamageComponents that use Explosive that often have 50% FF. that led to a bad generalization, that Explosive-element in and of itself has an additional FF bonus.

glacial topaz
#

is that for enviroment sources as well ?
and like, shouldnt it be easier to just consider that multiplier already on their pages ?

floral drift
#

unknown if that applies to environmental sources of damage. LazyMaybe and i were testing weapons.

#

i can only think of Exploding Plants as the environmental explosive damage

bold plover
#

Environmental sources doing less friendly fire to what?

glacial topaz
#

something like, if weapon is 20% FF, and that damagecomponent is 50% FF
shouldn't the wiki just display "10% FF"

bold plover
#

No, it is just 50% afaik.

floral drift
# glacial topaz something like, if weapon is 20% FF, and that damagecomponent is 50% FF shouldn'...

ah. i think you may have misunderstood.

consider the PGL. without upgrades, it does 0 Kinetic-element Damage and 110 Explosive-element RadialDamage. it also has a FF modifier of 50%.

what LazyMaybe and I proved on Saturday was that PGL's 50% is the only modifier. the fact that its RadialDamage is Explosive-element does not grant it an additional 50% FF, which would have lowered the total FF to 25%.

bold plover
#

Weapons themselves do not deal reduced friendly fire, their damage components do.

#

Then there is friendly fire damage multiplier from hazard and then from Friendly perk.

#

And technically gunner and driller.

#

Explosive reduced further and fire from like pgl.

#

Engineer might get less FF from chemical bolt explosions though if it does any. I think that is poison damage?

floral drift
bold plover
#

uh

#

No idea tbh.

#

I think it does.

#

Because back when elemental insulation was 50% driller was immune to heat buildup.

#

Could stand in volcanoes with no downside.

floral drift
#

anyway, getting back to the core point:

Explosive-element does not get an innate 50% resistance. it's the DamageComponents that deal Exlosive damage that often have 50% FF, which caused the confusion.

bold plover
#

Wouldn't that have been disproven by geyser explosions to begin with? I don't think that half of their damage would kill you.

floral drift
#

a geyser isn't a weapon, therefore i don't have working knowledge of it 😆

bold plover
#

500 base explosion damage in 4m down to 25% if out of epicenter range of 3m

trail gust
floral drift
trail gust
#

found it

#

it's right in the arrow that is currently stuck in a creature

floral drift
#

i saw that in the gamefiles. like i said, it's listed as Explosive.

in-game tests indicate that it's Poison. Shredders have 100% poison resist, and took no damage from the explosion.

Guards have 30% explosive resist, but took full 140 from the explosion.

trail gust
#

I think that's not because of resistance

#

it's more likely that this thing ignores resistances

#

it's from \Content\Enemies\Spider\ENE_SpiderBase_Large

floral drift
#

🤔 if it ignores resistances, then why were Shredders unaffected by its explosion? 140 > 35

#

it's possible i was doing the test wrong... i'm not perfect.

what's another way to test the 140 damage's element, especially if it's supposed to ignore resistances?

trail gust
#

there's just no other damage component - especially the one with Poison in active stuck chemical arrow that I monitor real-time in-game

floral drift
#

right, i'm asking about ways to test the damage of the explosion aside from just checking the DamageComponent. i tried doing it by testing with enemies that resist Explosive and resist Poison, but if it's supposed to ignore resistances, then i'm not sure how to test it anymore...

trail gust
#

@weary sonnet Rockpox Larva doesn't resist poison - it dies from Preatorian's Death Cloud. Although it has such resistance in the HealthComponent, however it has no PawnStats component, hence no resistance.

#

Same for both Deeptora Swarms

trail gust
#

@floral drift So there was no way to test that with existing resistances, so I quickly learned how to mod it. I tried 0 resistance which made Chemical Explosion do 14 damage with 10 environmental resistance = 140 damage, and I tried 0.5 resistance, which led to 70 damage. So you're right - that makes it Poison then.

bold plover
#

Do players take damage from chemical explosions?

floral drift
bold plover
#

So it does do both damage types, the DoT from the direct arrow hit is poison and the AoE is supposed to be explosive.

floral drift
#

supposed to be Explosive, yes. but from my tests and SplitSentro's better tests, it seems to be behaving as if it were really Poison-element currently.

bold plover
#

It does 25% FF.

floral drift
#

so, the impact damage is Piercing, the DoT is Poison, and the explosion is Explosive also Poison

bold plover
#

ok

#

these are old files anyways

#

Yeah, that is super weird but not the first time that I have seen stuff not match up with the files.

trail gust
#

You actually got me the idea to check that on Engineer:
35 damage to Scout
17 damage to Engineer (with hazmat mod)
1.0 ff hazard multiplier

#

35 damage is 25% of 140
which double-confirms that it's Poison

floral drift
#

again, the great irony here is that on release it was listed as Poison but behaved in-game like Explosive. it's gone full inverse 😆

trail gust
#

hmm where is that poison coming from?

floral drift
#

i have a faint, half-forgotten memory about the base DamageComponent in the files being 140 DMG_Poison RadialDamage. i couldn't tell you where i found it, or even if i'm remembering the right thing...

#

FSD/Content/Game/GameData/GD_DamageSettings

image.png
#

anyway, i was stumbling around DamageSettings for something unrelated, noticed that being identical to the Crossbow Chemical Explosion, made a mental note about it.

5 months later, it was useful

trail gust
#

so devs changed the damage component of the arrow, but they forgot to put it in use

floral drift
#

another possible hypothesis: they never were able to get the Chemical Explosion damage to work with the intended DamageComponent, and it kept returning the global default. so, as a workaround, they might have just set the global default to be what they wanted.

to the best of my knowledge, this is the only thing in-game that uses the GD_DamageSettings DamageComponent

short cloud
#

sadly it never got patched

sterile crescent
#

Well it did (or at least, it said it did in the patch notes); it just didn't actually work for some reason

short cloud
#

🤷‍♂️

#

lot of bugs and things gets "patched" but still end up being broken in the end

#

that's the joy of coding

sterile crescent
#

Very true

weary sonnet
#

Rockpox Larva doesn't resist poison - it dies from Preatorian's Death Cloud.
Although it has such resistance in the HealthComponent, however it has no PawnStats component, hence no resistance.
Rockpox larvae poison res removed.

#

Same for both Deeptora Swarms
For the Swarms, I didn’t change anything for now since it works in a weird way from what I remember of my test, there is several resistances set to 100% and then the swarm is immune to non defined resistances.
After that, somehow any damage done by a set resistance (which is at 100%) will kill it from what I saw.
Does you tests indicate something else for the Deeptora Swarms?
And were you talking about all defined res or just the poison one?
@trail gust

#

As for the chemical explosion, my last test on it, 2 month ago confirmed it was poison damage as well, couldn’t figure out were the poison element was coming from.

trail gust
#

I checked only poison both with Acid Cloud (saw four not resisted ticks of damage from the poison status effect: 3-3-3-1-dead — minus 10 hp in total) and Chemical Explosion. But it's normally pawnstats component that defines such resistances in-game, and it's absent for those enemies, I'd guess that none of the resistances from EnemyHealth Component actually work for those enemies, at least in the meaning of "elemental resistance".

weary sonnet
#

Swarms are a special case, they probably have a custom logic baked in somewhere.
The thing about pawnstats component needing to be present for resistances to work is new for me, good to know, that does explain some of the missing res I found while testing stuff, like on the Nayaka Trawler.

glacial topaz
#

Got curious if there is a nice pattern to which weapons get reduced FF or not, such as high damage ones

steady talon
floral drift
#

Both. SMG T4.B’s bonus damage only applies to the kinetic damage of the bullets, not the bonus electric damage from EMRB or the Electrocute DoT

steady talon
#

thanks

primal pulsar
#

Have there ever been discussions around limiting the max width of the page content on the new wiki? I just swapped over from fandom and I find full screen performance is rather slow and text spans about two feet of space on my screen which is not great for readability.

The main page kinda works around the readability issue with flexboxes, but the whole site experience just blossoms when I shrink my browser window to be about 1/2 my screen, although scrolling remains sluggish.

glacial topaz
#

which browser

primal pulsar
#

Chrome!
Edit: Just tried it in Microsoft Edge and performance was way better, although the layout was still full width at 21:9

glacial topaz
#

long discussio happened here long ago
yea, I think every issue is just on Chromes
solution being to use better options

primal pulsar
#

Regarding readability, though, it would be fantastic if the site width were limited. Regardless of browser, trying to read a paragraph spanning a full 21:9 monitor is rather uncomfortable.

weary sonnet
primal pulsar
#

oh that's awesome, I will look into that, thank you!
Edit: Ended up with this which is pretty much what I wanted, just in case anyone else wants the same thing.

.content-wrapper {
    display: flex;
    max-width: 1200px;
    margin: auto;
}
.mw-body {
    display: flex;
    flex-grow: 1;
    margin-left: 0;
}
#mw-panel {
    margin-top: 0;
}
primal pulsar
#

Just figured out the .mw-body backdrop-filter CSS property was what was making the page sluggish in chrome. It's fine if I turn on hardware acceleration in chrome's options but having HW accel on messes other pages up sometimes so I usually leave it off.

shell frigate
#

Huh, odd that is causes such an issue, did test performance even without hardware acceleration when originally designing the css

#

There was quite some issues but fixed them all up at the time making it how it is now

#

Guess Chrome does Blur in a very suboptimal way as I did do that testing on firefox (the dev tools are leagues ahead)

dense badger
#

"consider this legally speaking rocking is more legal then stoning" the depositing voiceline

neat stone
#

What's the charged shot speed of the epc

trail gust
#

I recall it's 13 m/s

dawn sedge
#

4 questions to the cryo cannon:

Ice Storm is said to double damage vs frozen.
But they already take x3 (x2.5) .
Is it x6 (x5) multiplicative or
x5 (x4.5) additive?

Freezing power is said to scale off damage dealt. An unmodyfied cryo then does 6dmg x8persec x8freezing power as temperature/sec ?
Which means Damage has the same weight for freezing power as direct freezing power, giving one +3 dmg perk the same result as three +1 freezing piwer perk?

Do the 3sec ground patches count as envoirnmental cold like sticky flames do for heat?

And: Does freezing power continue on frozen targets? Which would mean more dmg taken while frozen would perpetuate the negative temperature recieved.

I'm sure there is more to it bc 18dmg Frost Storm then would be 720 cold/sec ..

sterile crescent
#

Re; the first point, that is only the case for direct damage, not AoE, which the cyro cannon is. In essence, Ice Storm restores the ability for the Cyro Cannon's stream to get the frozen damage multiplier

#

That is AoE (and a few other sources of damage) don't benefit from the frozen status at all

dawn sedge
#

ah okay

#

so flat x2

sterile crescent
#

Yeh

#

The ground patches do not count as environmental cooling, unfortunately

#

In fact, the only environmental cooling in the game if I recall is the Blizzard in Frozen Strata, which only effects dwarves :(

dawn sedge
#

Sounds fair and balanced

sterile crescent
#

It actually kind of is; cooling doesn't decay like heat in most circumstances (instead being blanked rapidly when cooling starts), so most over-time cooling effects end up acting like an environmental cooling source anyways

dawn sedge
#

How low does the temperature go. I assume dumping more negative temperature would lengthen the frozen status but is there a cap?

It looks like only a target's warmth/sec, the temperature shock and heat sources push against cold

#

Things seem to break out at fixed timings no matter the power of what froze them

sterile crescent
#

Yeah; thats the difference between heating and cooling

#

Warming from being chilled only starts after a cooldown after the last cooling instance (which is different per creature); once this cooldown passes, warming begins, and warming is usually much faster than cooling after being heated

#

It depends on the creature though

#

When an enemy is frozen, though, they bypass this cooldown and begin warming up (to thaw) instantly

dawn sedge
#

An oppressor freezes at -300 for example i assume that's the hard cap aswell?

sterile crescent
#

Which is part of the reason why bosses can thaw so damn quickly

dawn sedge
#

aye

sterile crescent
#

For most creatures, the maximum cooling they have is greater than their freeze/thaw temps

#

So you can "over-cool" them

#

Resulting in a longer freeze

dawn sedge
#

I was just thinking:

If cryo cannon freezing power scales off dmg

and Ice Storm does 18x5x8/ sec doubled vs frozen it should keep up with an opressor's 100 warmth/ sec ?

sterile crescent
#

I think so? I don't know the oppressors warming rate off the top of my head

dawn sedge
#

I saw 300 to freeze
100 warmth a sec

200 to break out

sterile crescent
#

They have 50% resistance to cold tho

dawn sedge
#

1440 halved is still a number

sterile crescent
#

That still gives you (effectively) 360 cooling per second, which is enough to counteract their warming

dawn sedge
#

pretending that freezing power is flat freezing powerx dmg

sterile crescent
#

Ah, nvm, forgot the doubled damage

#

Its 720 effective cooling

dawn sedge
#

Seems like alot

sterile crescent
#

Plus the freezing trail if you dip every so often

#

Thats assuming every particle hits, though

#

Also, where did you hear cooling scales off of damage?

dawn sedge
#

wiki dstare

sterile crescent
#

Where? I'm looking at the Cryo cannon page right now

dawn sedge
#

Freezing Power is what will allow you to freeze the enemies. It won’t do any damage by itself. 1 point in freezing power will lower the temperature of an enemy by 1° for each instance of damage done. Once you reach an enemy's freeze temperature it’ll be frozen solid.

sterile crescent
#

Yeah, thats a different stat from damage

#

So every particle "deals" the freezing power's cooling to the target

dawn sedge
#

oh it just means successful hit

sterile crescent
#

yeah

#

Per "particle", which there are 8 per second by default

dawn sedge
#

F hopes&dreams

sterile crescent
#

With freezing power of 8 by default

#

For 64° per second

dawn sedge
#

aye

trail gust
#

Ice Storm is not x2 damage

dawn sedge
#

Okay it falls into place now thanks alot

trail gust
#

It's +100% of gun's damage as kinetic element

sterile crescent
#

Ah, that makes sense

#

The wiki is kind of ambiguous about that, but it works out to the same end result (4x total damage against frozen targets)

dawn sedge
#

Yeah makes sence to scale it safely like that

sterile crescent
#

Means it deals less to bosses though

dawn sedge
#

wait why x4

sterile crescent
#

You start at x1; the overclock gives you another +1 damage in kinetic form

#

Which then gets tripled, to +3, if hitting a frozen target

#

For a total of x4 damage

#

x3.5 if you're smacking a boss

dawn sedge
#

So the kinetic part gets the stock frozen bonus

sterile crescent
#

Yep

dawn sedge
#

Ambitious

sterile crescent
#

DoTs and AoE effects don't, most other damage types too

#

I think I'm going to update the text of that overclock to make it clearer

#

On the wiki

trail gust
#

sounds weird

sterile crescent
#

Yeah, not verbatim like that

neat stone
sterile crescent
#

In short, the kinetic component (with is 100% of the weapons base damage) gets the benefit of frozen, allowing it to be multiplied by 3

trail gust
#

speed upgrade goes for normal shots

sterile crescent
#

For a total "bonus" against frozen targets of 4x (100% + 300%)

trail gust
#

35 m/s

dawn sedge
#

18 dmg cryo

+18 kinetic x3 vs frozen

?

neat stone
trail gust
#

it's default

neat stone
#

Thanks

trail gust
#

18 damage frost + 18 kinetic if you hit frozen

sterile crescent
trail gust
#

I know

sterile crescent
#

Or do I need to load into Sandbox quickly

#

So it is total

#

Bless

neat stone
#

Now how do I do the math for epc mining

dawn sedge
#

36x8 / sec vs frozen then end of story

trail gust
#

depending on resistances

#

and there's customizable flow rate as well

dawn sedge
#

aye

neat stone
#

Anybody know the math for epc mining ?

dawn sedge
#

Guess it's best as second cryo or vs robots still then

sterile crescent
#

I can write up a quick formula in a minute

trail gust
sterile crescent
#

I think he means for the sake of the wiki

#

Similar to how fear's "duration" has a formula on the wiki to demonstrate

#

Even though its not realistic to use in-game

neat stone
#

I just want to know long I have to wait to shoot the basic one

dawn sedge
#

Doing a side wiggle between the charged and secondary shot helped me a ton with peripheral vision

got alot more long range head on hits since

trail gust
#

You can pop basic one right away with drills

sterile crescent
#

True

#

OR your teammates can shoot it with hitscan for you /s

#

Also you run into triangulation issues if you move at all

#

So I would honestly just recommend you get a "feel" for it and practice

dawn sedge
#

Teamwork scoutmini

neat stone
#

Ok

sterile crescent
#

Also, take the faster basic projectile speed upgrade

trail gust
#

you can also use axes

neat stone
sterile crescent
#

You lose nothing for it in an EPC mining build, and it reduces the margin of error pretty significantly

#

Heat Shielding

#

Makes it overheat slower when you're fully charged

#

Which, 99% of the time, you're firing the instant you reach full charge anyways

#

If you use the Heat Pipe OC, it kind of helps, but honestly just practice the timings and it becomes redundant

dawn sedge
#

Obv, worst you can do is change projectile and charge speed every run driller

trail gust
#

Heat Pipe + axes is the most ammo efficient build

sterile crescent
#

True

#

Good luck mining at long distances tho

dawn sedge
#

Epc with axes

sterile crescent
#

Yeah, its pretty funny

dawn sedge
#

Driller gang unite

sterile crescent
#

Axes allow for some really silly cross-weapon strats lmao

trail gust
sterile crescent
#

Like C4 hovering in the air

#

Yeah, sorry

dawn sedge
#

I wonder if there are things you can place which act as epc popper

#

aight

trail gust
#

you can hover c4 with any nade

sterile crescent
#

True; Axes just aren't spent

trail gust
#

even with epc shot which is easier

trail gust
sterile crescent
#

Technically the SSG as well, right?

#

Not that that is terribly reliable

trail gust
#

it goes for radial damage it won't work and not like they're gonna attack it anyways

sterile crescent
#

yeah

#

Anyways, back to Ice Storm

dawn sedge
#

charged vs charged popp both i assume?

#

well apparently robots, though freeze immune, have frost dmg weakness which would mean 288 ice storm dps
?

trail gust
#

sure Ice Storm is decent against them

dawn sedge
#

Okay cool hope atlast

trail gust
#

though it takes lots of ammo

sterile crescent
#

Yeah, if an enemy can reach a "freezing" temperature, they usually act (for the purposes of damage) if they were frozen "proper"

#

Which is why you can "freeze" the Caretaker to boost damage

#

Thoughts @trail gust

image.png
dawn sedge
#

So scout cryo bombies vs sniper turrets etc?

trail gust
#

it's not multiplied

#

it just gets added

#

I mean frozen state dmg bonus

#

so for example karl.gg description:

x2 Damage per Particle, x2 Damage vs Frozen enemies
would become:
x2 Damage per Particle, +100% Damage vs Frozen enemies as Kinetic element

sterile crescent
#

So it only adds that damage as kinetic when its against a frozen target?

#

Otherwise its still ice damage?

trail gust
#

yes it checks TargetStates and adds if it matches frozen

#

it's Frost damage type

sterile crescent
#

Ah, brilliant

trail gust
#

though yeah you call it Ice on wiki

#

or actually it's the opposite

sterile crescent
#

I think its Frost in most places, I just had a brain fart and couldn't remember its proper name

trail gust
#

Frozen Caretaker's dmg calculation example:
18 Frost x 1.2 weakness + 18 Kinetic

sterile crescent
#

Thoughts?

image.png
#

Second point could be truncated to "Bonus Damage is Kinetic against Frozen targets"

trail gust
#

Can you just do like I wrote

#

x2 Damage per Particle, +100% Damage vs Frozen enemies as Kinetic element

sterile crescent
#

But thats not true; that implies that it gets another separate bonus when hitting frozen targets

trail gust
#

it does

sterile crescent
#

But then the total would not be x4; it would be x5

trail gust
#

There's literally a thing called DamageBonuses and that one against frozen is in the array

dawn sedge
#

it is afterall, effectively a x2 vs frozen 8bitDriller ?

trail gust
#

yes, but depending on resistances

sterile crescent
#

So, let me get this straight

#

Instead of just coding it to give +100% kinetic, which is simple and would result in the desired outcome more-or-less

#

They made two unique exceptions for this overclock instead

trail gust
#

you equip OC you get x2 frost dmg vs. everything
you shoot with x2 vs. everything frozen target - you get another +100% additional kinetic of those already x2'd

dawn sedge
#

n/sec=(basedmgxticks/sec)xresist

Vs frozen = true -> n/sec+n/sec

sterile crescent
#

Being that it gets a conditional +100% kinetic, which only gets multiplied by x2 rather than x3 like all other kinetic direct sources, for a total of x4 damage against a frozen target?

trail gust
#

resistance doesn't get applied to kinetic part

dawn sedge
#

jesus

trail gust
#

since it's kinetic

#

it has no resistances

sterile crescent
#

I see

trail gust
#

damage method is spray, it's not direct

sterile crescent
#

That still boggles my mind that they coded like that

trail gust
#

it doesn't get x3

dawn sedge
#

But

is it

base + basex2

(basex2)x2

or

(base)x2

?

sterile crescent
#

So then the total damage would only be x3? Or is this second +100% kinetic another multiplier?

trail gust
#

uhmm

#

again

#

Against caretaker frozen

#

You equip OC and t4a you get 18 frost damage per particle

dawn sedge
#

aye

sterile crescent
#

9 (100%) from base, 9 (+100%, or x2) from OC, yes

trail gust
#

then you shoot caretaker and get x1.2 frost damage cause of weakness

#

then caretaker gets frozen and you get another 18 as kinetic

#

so in total you get 21.6+18

#

39.6

sterile crescent
#

So that kinetic isn't another addition; its a multiplication

#

Of the modified damage

trail gust
#

it's just +100% of base damage

sterile crescent
#

Thats what I was trying to clarify

#

But the OC modified base damage, which is why I was confused; base damage is 9, modified to 18 via the OC's basic effect

trail gust
#

yes

dawn sedge
#

It ignores resist but also weaknesses that's the main catch?

sterile crescent
#

In effect, yes

trail gust
#

there are 2 separate parts

#

frost 18 and kinetic 18

sterile crescent
#

Since kinetic has no weaknesses or resistances in game