#Emp disables Alpha shield

938 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

umbral kindle
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Alpha a shield is a bit over powered. I'm seeing a lot of complaining on these forums about how there is zero counter to it.

Initially, I thought it was obvious that emp would be a counter except the time for emp doesn't come close to the time for alpha shield.

So, here it is, what if emp disabled alpha shield for the duration of the emp? Alternatively, it turns off alpha shield completely.

worn gulch
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Should turn it off and prevent activation while disabled.

light geyser
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I feel like this is too direct of a counter, this would make it unreliable in pvp.

abstract stream
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well bond is unreliable in pvp because it can be canceled in few ways too

umbral kindle
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For whitestars you have to burn emp sparingly if you have enough at all.

abstract stream
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if it can mess alpha, more people will carry it

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the current situation is you need 3 emps to disable someone with alpha that dropped on your relic drones. that's too much in itself and the emp-alpha balance need to be improved.
this suggestion points the right direction.

light geyser
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alpha certainly needs nerfing, but i feel like this is too potent of a counter. Emp would be as common as barrier in ws then

umbral kindle
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They would still land and break through barriers

spring galleon
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emp 12 lasts 2 hrs. alpha 12 lasts 5h 20m. you have almost no countor to alpha 12 on defnesive.

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emp 13 lasts 2h 10m.

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at least make emp 12 last as long as alpha 12

worn gulch
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No, make alpha 12 last as long as emp 12

spring galleon
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or that

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ether way, needing 3 bs to nerf one alpha shield is mading

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its not hard to drop a new bs every 4ish hours onto the other team, quickly giving them no countor

worn gulch
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Which is exactly why I don’t play Ws currently. Alpha is just boring and super op. The only real counter is be available 24/7

paper ingot
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Make teleport the only break of bond(leap and dest tele when complete)

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This solves this issue of parking on relic loading and being unable to defend

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If I was to change emp it would be to just add disable mod activation

bleak siren
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I had a suggestion about giving mirror shield the ability to return damage directly to hull. That would mean making changes to mirror range maybe or durability or so

spring galleon
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As a proud owner of mirror 12 I would love that

umbral kindle
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I was saddened that mirror no longer functioned in the way it did pre dark nebula. I had setup some specific moves in whitestar and was unaware of the changes. We have not used mirror since due to the change.

inland mica
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What about bond giving alpha to you, I mean you bond with them, usually they have tele or destiny, or bond anyway so there's your other counter to counter the counter. But bond would then give you mirror ability, regen and omega idk. Maybe adds hps based off their hp lol shields are "weaker" anyway

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This helps mirror in general

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If you use bond

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Then ws is a mess 🤣

jade vessel
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perhaps emp causing alpha to burn faster?

frigid frost
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Maybe a buff to emp in general by temporarily disabling shields in general while it effects the target

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Alpha is shattered, while other shields are still threatened by an EMP

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Also acts as a buff to ally shield and blast shield bc of its range

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(Although make blast shield 220 au to block veng correctly pls)

timber forge
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The way gou debuff alpha is by buffing blast

inland mica
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I also said it should pause tele timer but that's different

timber forge
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Alpha sheld complaint is due to venging

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Fix the overpower of veng alpha and problem solved

inland mica
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You can rocket drone or destiny which wastes the shield, they can wait to regain shield. So maybe longer cooldown so you only get 1 use in general for bls

timber forge
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I mean motion shield has the requirement of movement, should alpha shield be the requirement of not moving?

frigid frost
inland mica
frigid frost
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Its impossible to push a dest without alpha

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Make it possible to activate mods in EMP but anything with a timer is paused

timber forge
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A wider emp range would be nice though

frigid frost
timber forge
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Reminds me of old fort

frigid frost
inland mica
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Even if your not moving people just sit in center circle anyway

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I guess bond would count as movement?

frigid frost
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Yea

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Does moving via bond count as moving for motion?

inland mica
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Don't think so but could be wrong lol

timber forge
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What about making area and blast support mods instead of a shield?

inland mica
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Blast shield drone lol

timber forge
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No it doesn't, maybe it should

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I use motion occasionally in bls

inland mica
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Yeah I mean if you move with bond... motion should technically be active imo. But.. It makes sense because you didn't move your ship lol it is being moved and you are stationary

frigid frost
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Ngl shield based drones are interesting

timber forge
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Alphas weakness is just hit em early

inland mica
frigid frost
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Or, combat mods passively included in other mods

inland mica
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Especially if you go early early

frigid frost
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Like ally shield is now ally support, and takes from your shields health

inland mica
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The best move is barrier them out have them use tele then bond them out. But usually they have bond or destiny

timber forge
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Alpha and veng need a proper counter

inland mica
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Tele then activate bond works but they are usually just waiting to active their tele

timber forge
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Dart does surprisingly well

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One shot poof

inland mica
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Rocket wamp too lol but I love repair

timber forge
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I miss salvage

inland mica
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Meh better because no cd

timber forge
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I liked old school rr

frigid frost
timber forge
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Blast is useless

inland mica
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Could do salvage drone that way it has cd and is based on sector 😉

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But that is repair just different

frigid frost
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Blast requires having a higher level than the enemy's veng, which makes it hard for lower levels to use

frigid frost
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Every form of burst damage is blast damage

timber forge
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The range is the problem

frigid frost
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Absolutely

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It should be 220 to eat vengs

timber forge
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Veng is a blanket, blast is a rag

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Old school blast would absorb your impact, not the source

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And you're left naked vs direct fire

inland mica
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Why cant alpha just do intervals of protection? Motion shield is % based when moving. Alpha would be 100% protection but flash allowing damage in.. like it's the first shield not a OP end game thing

keen skiff
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Maybe for a limited time like a couple of seconds would work. Otherwise EMP would be too good imo.

inland mica
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Yes with upgrade the flashes of "on" are longer

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Or it just lasts longer same flash periods

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Like when omega is about to run out it flashes? I think alpha does to I don't pay attention

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Just make that the shield, but little longer intervals

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They need to make time machine more persistent though, because timing the flashes would be needed for white star

frigid frost
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Make regen the first shield, then move alpha up and make it bls scaling

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No reason why its the only shield going off of how long it lasts in red star

timber forge
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I think I like the idea of first shield becoming endgame with enough effort

inland mica
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Everyone already has it unlocked 😂

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I guess you need bps to upgrade.. yes let us.. mine is already 11

frigid frost
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Im close to getting it to 9 and Im not even at rs7

worn gulch
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That’s on track. Try to keep 2-4 levels over rs level

worn gulch
inland mica
inland mica
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But to win against them now feels so rewarding. But in order to do that you have to be like lucky or on top of your game. If you loose you hate it. But if you win it's a good feeling

frigid frost
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I have 1200 I just dont want to spend the 1 week+ to upgrade it rn

worn gulch
frigid frost
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so does not improving my other mods tbh

worn gulch
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Depends what mods

frigid frost
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alpha is my highest by far

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mass batt is at 7 and bc I keep being fed by my alliance I havent had to be good at rs in a long time, leaving soli and emp at 5

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bp wise Im level 7-9 in most to all mods

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in reality most of them arent past 5

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tho Id rather be able to constantly research the things I want to than not have the bp to keep growing

amber hemlock
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Alpha Shield, combined with Tele, Survival Delay on every few hours.

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It's obviously gonna delay your mining ops for a very long time

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Aalso it's all started when Barrier can be teleported in and does damage to any ships landing on it

timber forge
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Alpha is the only thing to break through barrier

worn gulch
timber forge
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What if the solution isn't nerfing alpha but buffing other stuff?

feral turret
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what if drone can pierce through alpha?

amber hemlock
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I believe from low hull shield into a short lived invincible shield kinda broken?

feral turret
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make drone stronger

timber forge
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Make weapons stronker

feral turret
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weapons are strong

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its just not too equal (mass meta all the time)

timber forge
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Maybe weapon amp pierces alpha faster?

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Emp stops veng timer?

feral turret
timber forge
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Or emp stops destiny timer

worn gulch
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The ability to kill someone else without taking ANY damage is broken. It’s broken for alpha and it’s broken for chain ray range. And it was broken before with old docking mechanics

feral turret
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yes emp might work

timber forge
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Does suspend slow timers?

worn gulch
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No

feral turret
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no

timber forge
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Maybe it should

amber hemlock
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Hmmm...
Best way to nerf Alpha Shield is to make it destroyable I guess

timber forge
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Either that or remove alpha from bls and ws like it was done to bond in rs

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I miss bonding ships in rs

worn gulch
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Was actually about to make that its own suggestion

amber hemlock
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Like

Alpha Shield 20k in BLS/WS?

timber forge
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🧐 maybe that is the way to go

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Give it an absurd capacity, but not invincible

amber hemlock
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A triple barrier 12 can yeets but. It burns your barrier too earlier

timber forge
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That might work

worn gulch
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Give aloha normal shield hp but with infinite overflow. So it can tank infinite damage once but normal shield otherwise

timber forge
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Like an over shield

amber hemlock
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It should be easy to do by making Alpha Shield exclusive logic but yeah

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PvP only

timber forge
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Maybe first shield is 50% damage resistant, while second is -50%

feral turret
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i still stand with making drones able to damage through alpha shield

worn gulch
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Make alpha only work live in ws like floating shield reset

feral turret
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it gives reason for delta, chain ray and rocket drones

amber hemlock
worn gulch
timber forge
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What if alpha shield had a range?

amber hemlock
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It's because you have shit load of changes in the real match

worn gulch
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Could be

timber forge
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Blocks everything outside a certain range, but within it is vulnerable

amber hemlock
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If you surely think there's no changes before floating shield refresh. You can Tm'd it easily

timber forge
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Think of Halo's bubbleshield

amber hemlock
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Ally Shield with Alpha Shield = Blast Shield on Steroid

timber forge
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Ally+barrier

worn gulch
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What if alpha just had no PvP cooldown. Use it once and that’s all you get

timber forge
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Slow cd might work for bls, but little difference in wa

amber hemlock
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That would just make defense 🛌 even more

timber forge
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Ws

amber hemlock
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You can just force Alpha with ModMBDrone

timber forge
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Haven't upped rd enough to try

worn gulch
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Maybe you can but most can’t

amber hemlock
timber forge
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😂

worn gulch
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And none of them do 2001 damage so they will simple trigger early and survive

amber hemlock
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Lv. 10 one does hits hard enough

worn gulch
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While half a dozen others make it past

amber hemlock
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X3 players and then BS6 ded

timber forge
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What if 5 players have alpha veng

worn gulch
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But it broken up so activates their shield

amber hemlock
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Also hydrogen cost 📈

timber forge
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It would be better to have a bs counter than a supp

amber hemlock
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laserharold when the current counter is the Blast Drone supp

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At least for my case

timber forge
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Not everyone has sexy drones like you

amber hemlock
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Sadly yeah

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It's only benefits on high tech WS 👀

worn gulch
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“Pulse will counter alpha” is the next thing I expect to hear

amber hemlock
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With bullshitly high Hydrogen

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Watch Dark Destroyer penetrates your alpha in DRS

timber forge
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Perhaps if alpha didn't protect against explosion?

worn gulch
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That’s been suggested

amber hemlock
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😂

timber forge
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Would make blast relevant

amber hemlock
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Goes to Motion Shield in DRS even with Vengeance build

timber forge
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Motion at least requires adhd

amber hemlock
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I like the AdHD bship

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Fast af

timber forge
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I do too

worn gulch
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Reduce barrier damage and make it only hit hull. 80% of the issue gone

timber forge
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That might work

amber hemlock
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Watch flagship teleport in and cause mayhem

worn gulch
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Better one ship than 10

amber hemlock
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Yeah 7 leaps

worn gulch
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Well leap is a whole separate issue from 5 years ago

amber hemlock
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It's annoying to deal. It delays us like a whole day

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Leap. It just adds another issue

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You need to evac

worn gulch
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Yes cuz blast won’t save you

timber forge
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Blast is weak

amber hemlock
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Blast means to cover vengeance for the same level

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But leap

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Lv. 10 outperform blast shield for the same level already lol

worn gulch
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I still have nightmares of what I did last ws to the enemy with my leap

amber hemlock
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What did you do?

worn gulch
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Broke 2 blast shields and killed them all

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Solo

timber forge
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Woops

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See blast needs a buff

worn gulch
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Yes don’t take my 21k win button laserharold

frigid frost
amber hemlock
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Vengeance is 220 AU

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Blast is 180

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Ain't no way

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Ally Shield is higher in range

frigid frost
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Which means the random mod that has one use has to be leveled above the common level of a mod expected to be used everywhere

frigid frost
worn gulch
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Needs its own sugestion but blast should be the only infinite hp shield that’s on a timer. Alpha but with blast

frigid frost
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Blast's ability to tank in general is also ass

timber forge
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Makes sense

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Maybe allyblast invincibility shield

amber hemlock
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Blast Shield do needa rework in WS

You only do Blast Objective in RS and BLs anyway

timber forge
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Problem is if an entire team packs it can you get a situation where it is infinitely running

frigid frost
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Moreso blast should just, be stronger

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Like it doesnt need to be invincible, just make it be able to tank basic veng's

amber hemlock
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Playing against a turtle time with 5 blast. Needs more Leaps

timber forge
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Wider range, or give it old school rules

frigid frost
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I shouldn't need blast 12 to handle a veng 12

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They got veng 12 bc its useful everywhere, I got blast 12 bc I wanna counter them, time wise its not fair

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Not to mention research wise

amber hemlock
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You can also use blast against a bomber next to your Jumpgate

frigid frost
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Making it tough is good, especially having like level 10 be like 20k health so it actually acts like a nuke sponge

amber hemlock
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Who wants to see bomber shooting 10 rockets

timber forge
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What if emp paused mod activation?

frigid frost
amber hemlock
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You can't pause an EMP

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And that it

frigid frost
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Anything that has a timer should pause, bc itd make escaping certain things better

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If someone dests me in a bls I should be able to escape with EMP by hitting and running

timber forge
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Such as tp, destiny, veng, leap,

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It would be a matter of timing at that point

frigid frost
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I feel like it could also disable AOE stuff like suspend and barrier

timber forge
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Because you would be able to activate it while emped

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Disable, no. Pause maybe

amber hemlock
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EMP in WS is smoll

timber forge
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Timer resumes after emp

frigid frost
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Yea

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Thats what I ment

timber forge
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So suspend would resume once emp is past

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Elapsed

frigid frost
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Barrier needs a counter anyways, its silly how op it is to grab an enemy and they can do nothing

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Other than bond

amber hemlock
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Barrier as it is

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Holds you in place

timber forge
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Except for bond

amber hemlock
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Barrier, Teleport

A frickin brick

timber forge
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Bond is so op in it's own right

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That's why nerfing alpha feels off

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Better off buffing other stuff to provide diversity

frigid frost
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Its all a mess, everything needs a counter

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And lots of things dont have one

timber forge
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I can survive veng12 with motion and sus oddly enough

amber hemlock
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Destiny counter
Removes your surroundings roids

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Watch the Destiny guys becomes our pinata

timber forge
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Maybe just making alpha susceptible to aoe damage would work

frigid frost
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Honestly thats why I prioritize mining the area around the sector I wanna defend, makes enemy destinys impossible to tp through

frigid frost
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Buff blast and that could be interesting

amber hemlock
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Is your friend

frigid frost
timber forge
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Meat shield

amber hemlock
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Sadly yeah

timber forge
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If decoy launched 3 drones ally would be interesting

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At least vs mb

amber hemlock
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Wamp Mbatt would shreds it

timber forge
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Oh does anyone use omega rocket?

amber hemlock
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Nope

frigid frost
amber hemlock
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Omega is too weak

frigid frost
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Its a smurf weapon at best

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Slow and clunky, with bad range and low health

timber forge
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I just use it as a 2nd drone

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Relic of the past

frigid frost
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Honestly omega needs a buff

timber forge
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Wider range would be nice

frigid frost
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Wider range and bigger hit

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Make it slow but tough, so you wanna either run away or barrier it

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Imagine a slow moving rocket that does 10k with 6k health

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With like 150au range

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You can run away to just dodge it tho bc its like half the speed of a bs

amber hemlock
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You have cataclysm in WS

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And also

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Rocket Launcher

frigid frost
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"Mom can we have cataclysm?"
"We have cataclysm at home"
Cataclysm at home:

amber hemlock
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This cata at home is much much harder to deal than FS Cata

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It has neutralized damage

frigid frost
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Im rs6 and my entire alliance has tech level 9 at best so I dont have any hint of how well rocket is btw

amber hemlock
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Oh make sense

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It's ok

frigid frost
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We rarely get rs10 stuff, much less rs11

amber hemlock
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It's just like Cerberus Bomber

frigid frost
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But wow rocket looks pretty

worn gulch
timber forge
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So alpha shield lasts a few seconds, so give it the shield equivalent of 3x or 2x omega

light geyser
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313 comments in this thread, jesus

amber hemlock
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It's because of Alpha Shield

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RS2 Mods

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The SMALL ARTIFACT module

inland mica
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Just make it % based like motion shield 😂 remove the motion part, make motion shield alpha shield but only when moving

amber hemlock
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Watch repair drone just makes things super hard

inland mica
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Also then what is upgrade for motion shield 😂

amber hemlock
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😂

timber forge
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Make alpha shield stand still shield i dunno

valid stag
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Alpha being disabled by emp is an interesting idea.
Additionally, what about bringing suppress back to the game?

feral turret
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might be too powerful, unless time is much shorter

timber forge
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Give emp range over bond

desert scaffold
timber forge
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It's not the weapon, but the veng, destiny, leap target

amber hemlock
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It's the floating shield shredder

timber forge
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I'm guessing your beer is being held by someone else

amber hemlock
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Definitely 😂

timber forge
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Maybe their ships are still on fire

subtle lily
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if emp can disable alpha, why stops there, make it disable other shield module too (I'm not the type of guy want realism in game but it kinda makes sense )

timber forge
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Emp disables shields sounds quite stronk, but not bad might be something worthwhile

amber hemlock
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it's good when you facing teleport

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but a questionable when facing leap

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Especially leaps with few hours interval

timber forge
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Leaps are getting traumatic

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I managed to survive a leap12 and destiny12 with sus+motion

amber hemlock
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even worst in WS too

frigid frost
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In ws:
Decrease its timer to 4h or maybe even less, decrease the damage, make it require constant fighting with maybe 30 minute seperation between fight, and make it actually send the person to where the target currently is, not where they're going, to make it actually used to back up a player
In bls:
Maybe less damage, but otherwise same as white star where it sends someone to the actual location of the drone

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In turn, make it synergize with laser turret and CRT by making both of them have more health overall

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Especially in white star where laser turret takes so long to set up and deploy, and lasts about the same time before going on cooldown for twice as long

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So only 1/4th of its cooldown is actually uptime

amber hemlock
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I feel like what Leaps becomes useful is because of Rocket Launcher

frigid frost
amber hemlock
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You can defend against destiny by clearing roids

frigid frost
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Only to some extent

amber hemlock
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If you choose P10 💀 impossible, P5 usually 50:50 depending on where your P5 is

frigid frost
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If you have a standoff (like 2 CR forts in front of eachother) then the leap marker can yeet backwards right back into safety and you wont be able to do anything

amber hemlock
frigid frost
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You'd need heavily scattered forces and a decent bit of luck

frigid frost
amber hemlock
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Clearing roids is easy if those roids are <200

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but if 1200/2400

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You need more miners with crunches

frigid frost
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Yea I can see how it should work and honestly Ive thought of that strategy, but you need to not have any standoffs happening

amber hemlock
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just don't let it happen

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I suppose

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or just play with 20h time attack

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where you need to quickly removes roids in 20h from the prep ends

frigid frost
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Yea, its just a matter of miners being effective

amber hemlock
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more likely to be
Entire crew willingness to do so

frigid frost
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My corp is ffa for everyone who wants to join, so there's no regulation in even bs2 users joining

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Our main strength is simply playing more coordinated, rather than playing with correct equipment

amber hemlock
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I guess alpha shield is a literal annoying on that kind of WS commitement

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Why not both?

frigid frost
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We've had many close calls with alphavenges, especially with our low research levels

frigid frost
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We dont even have a dedicated 10 man team yet

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Yet despite this we have a near perfect track record, being 31/0/3

amber hemlock
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It definitely takes time of course

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Wow, that is surely nice

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What's your corp's average RSS?

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👀

frigid frost
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We have like 4-5 reliable members, 2 with alts, so we commonly get to 6/7, but those last 3 are a gamble

frigid frost
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Id have to add that up

amber hemlock
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Red Star Scanner

frigid frost
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If I had to guess 6-8

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Our highest in the alliance as a whole is 9, and in the corp in general is 8

amber hemlock
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I see, seems your crew at least have CRs

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🤔

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I suggest playing with 6 offense 4 defense

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3 defense is too gambling around your ws tech level

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If your FS is Lv. 7 or lower, bring at least one ally shield

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If your offense do have leap build, you can send that leaper to defense first 😄

frigid frost
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Just doing the math for our current ws, average is 6.5

amber hemlock
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Yeah, you definitely going to do 6/4

frigid frost
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We actually lack defense a lot

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Our plan usually is the enemy cant win if they arent on the map

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And its, wildly effectly if done corrently

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We've straight up went in without a single barrier and won

amber hemlock
#

you just having a genrich simulator at the current WS

frigid frost
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It was hell mind you but yea

amber hemlock
#

Free bonus 😄

frigid frost
#

Tbf at our level its a gamble if we even get an actual enemy

amber hemlock
frigid frost
#

Loss farmers everywhere

frigid frost
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Our last one was a loss farm too

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Its boring tbh

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We have so many plans ready

amber hemlock
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Around low level corps, you either meet loss farm or straight up serious one

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😄

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If I was in this WS, this is my plan

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🟣 your miners + defender team
🟢 your offense team

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Brings all 10 miners. 7 miners with the biggest genesis uses genesis on the P5 E2, everyone enrich after genesis 👀

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then sent the slowest miner to gate and swaps ts

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The E3 is surely annoying for you to handle, needs a barrage and mbatt to clear it

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thought CR is fine

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also E3 has 1200 roids, needs to crunch hit

frigid frost
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Other than miner stuffs thats pretty similar to the idea me and red had tbh

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Mainly red bc I was asleep when the plan was made lol

amber hemlock
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You should try making the plan as soon as the match found

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The earlier the better. Because of sleep

#

But yeah. Sometimes matches founds when you sleep

frigid frost
#

Yea, red scanned and instantly found, and as such made a plan while I was asleep

inland mica
#

When you let them sit in the center lol

Screenshot_20250111_090249_Hades_Star_DARK_NEBULA.jpg
open zephyr
umbral kindle
open zephyr
umbral kindle
open zephyr
umbral kindle
#

The problem right now is in whitestars the alpha shield is ensured god mode for hours.

open zephyr
open zephyr
umbral kindle
open zephyr
#

There's no counter for alpha
But there's also no counter for barrier(teleport damage) except alpha🙃

#

And barriers stack teleport damage

umbral kindle
open zephyr
umbral kindle
#

I believe so. we use it in whitestars for leap damage all the time

open zephyr
trim owl
#

Maybe blast would need a buff and protect the covered ship, not stop the covered explosion.

Maybe a series of counters in a cycle.

A beats B
B beats C
C beats D
D beats A

copper inlet
#

EMP disables alpha
Pick a shield (Omega?) Reduces teleporting into barrier damage to 0 but you still take all other types of damage as normal.

Now you have a counter for alpha shields and still have a shield for mass leaps that doesn't cause a RP to be unusable for half a day.

frigid frost
copper inlet
#

Barrier bunkers are no longer broken. You can now tele into a barrier bunker.
But you take damage:
Use a shield.
Enemies are popping double barriers to kill:
Bring alpha.

This is where we are now. And we have discovered that alpha shield is OP and can hold down a planet for far too long.

So let's solve this. EMP disabling alpha is a great option bc it makes the enemy use another mod (bc barrier was already used) to defend against alpha leap attacks.

Though the conversation we got d that this would lead to no more barrier busting options..
So let's add a new one that doesn't bring the same OP upside alpha did.
Give us a shield that takes no damage to teleporting into barrier but still has a health bar (such as omega). Now we can barrier bunker bust but not sit on a planet for half a day.

open zephyr
#

Currently now the counter for emp+wamp is

  • emp back
  • alpha
#

And you make emp disable alpha...

#

😂

copper inlet
#

Dont attack where all your ships can be caught in one EMP then

open zephyr
#

You are making everyone bring emp in bls

copper inlet
#

Make the EMP change WS only

frigid frost
#

Too niche

#

The game wouldn't put a specific counter to 1 thing aganist 1 other thing in 1 specific game mode

#

Way too unique of an interaction

copper inlet
#

Every single WS i have participated in (and I run weekly) is the same. Leap + Alpha to enemy RP.
It's not niche

open zephyr
#

How about increase leap cooldown in WS? Like to 2d?

copper inlet
#

The CD could help but isn't the issue

#

But I do like this

#

What is the counter to alpha shield?

open zephyr
copper inlet
#

There isn't one other than wait

#

Yes in WS.
BLS is fast paced and I don't think alpha shield is OP in BLS as it stands

open zephyr
#

I can imagine in the future, 3 def ship will be
EMP + Wamp + Barrier😂

#

and suspend or delta rocket or bond or something

copper inlet
#

This is why I suggested to also make another shield (such as Omega) immune to barrier damage

#

Now attackers still have an option to land inside of a barrier and not lose your shield to EMP

open zephyr
copper inlet
#

But now you have shield options

#

Alpha means no damage unless enemy has EMP
Omega means no damage until enemy burns your shield down

#

And EMP doesn't need to disable alpha for same duration as it disables ship. That is something that can be worked for balance

open zephyr
#

Lvl 13 delta rocket is 7k dmg.
Imagine enemies send 3 delta rockets and you and your teamates die to 1 hit

umbral kindle
#

No leap to planet or gate could be done

#

I think destiny had that tweak years ago

copper inlet
open zephyr
copper inlet
#

Bring your own EMP

open zephyr
copper inlet
#

Wait... does EMP stop a DR

open zephyr
#

You are making everyone bring emp

#

attackers

copper inlet
#

Not making

open zephyr
#

defenders

copper inlet
#

It's all strats

#

Right now everyone brings alpha

open zephyr
#

20 emp in a WS

frigid frost
open zephyr
frigid frost
#

No special interaction with 2 mods are ever subject to a single game mode

copper inlet
#

WS brings artifact bonus.

frigid frost
#

Still only one side

#

Someone can quite literally just not ever play ws in their life and progress fine

#

The art bonus isnt even required

open zephyr
#

I agree with increasing the cd for leap

copper inlet
#

And they would never have to experience the issue that is being caused by alpha shield then

frigid frost
#

Face it, white star isnt required to play the game

open zephyr
frigid frost
copper inlet
#

As I've suggested.
Break the meta by giving a mod the ability to break alpha shield.
Well everyone brings EMP then.
So bring Omega shield then. Now you stopped their defense by still having a shield

#

This requires Omega to be reworked also

#

Giving it the barrier damage immunity

#

Now you have options again

frigid frost
#

Then everyone takes omega and does the same thing

#

Omega, leap, nuke

copper inlet
#

Nope.
Omega can be shot at

frigid frost
#

It could also be fixed by simply scaling it to bls instead of rs

copper inlet
#

If you land on my RP and barrier us out, I can shoot you with CR and eventually kill your BS

frigid frost
frigid frost
#

You might, idk stall the enemy miner ops for a few hours then boom your entire attack gone

umbral kindle
open zephyr
frigid frost
#

Ik 2 minutes is a lifesaver

#

But yea thats my point, it just brings back the issue that already existed

amber hemlock
#

You can't break a meta, you will always keep making new meta all day

copper inlet
#

Then up the shield health of omega

open zephyr
copper inlet
copper inlet
open zephyr
#

Shield strength of lvl 12 omega is 6650 right now

frigid frost
#

You can easily outrange leaps, wait out the jumps, then swoop in and CR melt

open zephyr
#

Even if increase lvl12 omega to 10k, I can easily kill it within 45m

#

And I also have 3 delta Rockets with 7000 damage each(lvl13 delta rocket)

#

🤣

amber hemlock
#

Blast drone is the fastest way

frigid frost
#

Which still kinda keeps my point bc blast spam the leap swarm and turtling keeps going

amber hemlock
#

It's because the way econ works that makes turtling is the only option

#

You can't move the genrich spot

#

It's back to the WS econ designs

frigid frost
#

So white star itself is flawed, seems to be the issue

amber hemlock
#

Not the whitestar itself but

#

The gameplay style is like tower defense

#

Old HS has auto relix generation

#

And Genrich is one time per sector

marsh aurora
#

I am naturally hesitant against any change that buffs the defense.

I do not want this game to turn into a turtle game, where the outcome of the match is decided the moment you match against an enemy team.

Buffing defensive mods = teams are more incentivized to just turtle. If one team has a mining advantage over the other, why even bother attacking?

Offense is inherently difficult to pull off, having a steep learning curve and requiring tons of coordination, teamwork, and timing. That’s the kind of gameplay you want to promote.

You don’t like getting attacked? Figure out a way to counter the attacks then, or be mobile with your defense. Don’t just buff defense.

umbral kindle
#

we must wait until the alpha shields are done before we can return to mining regardless of the excessive firepower we might have.

#

the most effective is when they have 6 leap attacks that are all spread a few hours apart

marsh aurora
# umbral kindle This is currently a turtle game. We get attacked, they waste our time, they win....

I beg to differ. Just because you do everything on the P1 doesn’t imply the game is a turtle game (although I do believe the P1 Strat needs to change but that’s a diff topic for a diff day).

Any turtle team can be broken by a good offensive team. Once you get Leap 12, you have a good chance of completely popping the enemy defenses. Yes, the defense would have to wait for alpha shields to end, but all you lose is a few hours, while the enemy just expended a ton of resources to achieve the landing.

The only way for a leap attack to be effective is, like you just said, spread out.

The other to that is to fight offense with offense and either deny the enemy those leaps, or execute your leap attacks better than they can

umbral kindle
marsh aurora
#

The latter is what I have yet to really see. Executing strong strategical leap attacks is extremely difficult to pull off, prone to tons of variables in a constantly shifting landscape.

marsh aurora
umbral kindle
marsh aurora
#

And if so, they may want to rethink their strategy as that implies they’ve given up map control

marsh aurora
umbral kindle
#

pick one I suppose

marsh aurora
#

Im in AusCorp

#

I don’t recall a match in the last few months where we’ve attained full enemy RP1 control for 3 days straight

umbral kindle
#

they have 3 rocket launcher builds that launch 2 leaps each

#

you spread out the leaps

marsh aurora
#

We ran that Strat twice I think. Maybe once

umbral kindle
#

Maybe I was on the receiving end, powerless to do anything with the alpha shield (god mode)

marsh aurora
#

Alpha is fairly easy to counter. During that 3 RL play we found so many holes in that offensive plan

umbral kindle
#

not for us

#

how do you counter god mode?

marsh aurora
#

Not trying to sound like a dick, but that sounds like a user problem not a strategy problem

#

We’ve had staggered leap attacks on us before

umbral kindle
#

you are in one of the top corps that use these strategies, telling the rest of us that it isn't a problem

marsh aurora
#

If you are allowing 4-5x staggered enemy leaps to land, what are your offensive ships doing to allow this to happens

umbral kindle
marsh aurora
#

So the issue isn’t leap or alpha, but rather losing the midfield fight

umbral kindle
#

I disbanded my ship to prevent a leap attack a few weeks ago

#

that was the only defense

#

I was offense

#

still lost

#

as difficult as it is to match mining tech, also having god mode is impossible

marsh aurora
#

Again, not trying to sound like a dick, but that sounds like a strategy problem. If the enemy found the opportunity to use you as a leap trigger, you probably shouldn’t have been there, or better yet, your team should have used them first as a leap trigger

umbral kindle
marsh aurora
#

No, but maybe rethink your pathing and overall strategy

#

All I’m saying is that in AusCorp after our matches we find plenty of glaring errors and holes in our strategy that the enemy could have exploited but didn’t

#

And we do our best to mitigate those errors for the future

umbral kindle
#

must be nice

marsh aurora
#

99% of the conversation I’ve read is about buffing defense, but very little conversation discusses better offensive strategy or how to attack better

umbral kindle
#

I think maybe you should play on a team that is not auscorp and see how it is

marsh aurora
# umbral kindle must be nice

I’m not trying to patronize or be a dick but the leap strategy that everyone complains about is not as fail proof as it seems

umbral kindle
#

you have 3 separate ships incoming that each can trigger it

#

there is nowhere on the map

#

the best we could do would to be able to deal with the alpha shield when it arrives

marsh aurora
#

Let’s say an opposing team ran the exact same strategy and build

#

What would happen

umbral kindle
#

I have, still lost.

marsh aurora
#

Then it’s a skill / user issue

#

Not an overall strategy issue

umbral kindle
#

how long do you think you will have corps to play with when it's an everyone else skill issue?

marsh aurora
#

The opposing team is simply executing it better

umbral kindle
#

I think you need to guest somewhere else

#

it's nice to be at the top and claim it's a problem everyone else has

marsh aurora
#

It sounds like we can just agree to disagree, I’m not trying to start a heated argument or get into fights, but all I wanted to do was give an opposing viewpoint

umbral kindle
#

I've guested with several corps, including auscorp

#

I have both sides

#

alpha shield is overpowered

marsh aurora
#

Agree to disagree then, I respect your opinion and perspective

#

End of day, we’ll roll with whatever the devs decide to do

umbral kindle
#

why not have emp disable alpha, then we still have to blow something to kill the ship?

#

if you're coordinated, we won't have 6 more emps to do the rest

marsh aurora
#

Because when I match an opponent, I’m going to crunch Hydrogen production numbers, and if I can out produce them, I will have zero incentive to attack.

Just super turtle the P1, stack floating shields, everyone bring EMP.

#

The match is decided the second it’s found

umbral kindle
#

that is another problem, but this one is specific to alpha shield

#

I don't think you should be able to be invincible and occupy the opponents relic planet for the game

#

sure, every couple hours, but they should have an option to deal with it

marsh aurora
#

Well, I am against this idea because this idea does not mention any other changes in the game aside from the title, which implies my scenario above could exist

umbral kindle
#

you're welcome to offer another fix to alpha shield and I'll probably vote it up

marsh aurora
#

And this descriptive topic implies a change that would cater towards turtle strategies in particular

umbral kindle
#

you are the one who turtles on the p1

marsh aurora
#

I think to address the larger issue you have in mind requires a rework as to how WS. Is pkayed

marsh aurora
umbral kindle
#

you do

#

I'm currently loading a p5

#

or p10.. I lost track

marsh aurora
#

And if you had the mining tech to turtle the P1, it’d be silly of you not to do so

umbral kindle
#

see, that is a problem with the game

marsh aurora
#

It’s literally the most logical way to play a WS

#

And a topic for another thread

umbral kindle
#

yes

marsh aurora
#

Either way I have to bounce but FWIW I appreciate your insight and perspective and while I may not agree I respect it.

#

Good luck in your match!

visual girder
#

In the current state of WS, almost every meta module is broken in one way or another. Balancing the mode needs a wide array of buffs and debuffs. Specifically nerfing a single one or two modules will disproportionally disadvantage the teams most reliant. The opinion prevails in BLS

Not to mention, the same module has a massive strategic disparity level-wise. In BLS, it may be an unstoppable force at level 13-15 with the right support, but at say level 5-11, it disproportionally worse just for the time. And at lower level pvp, the availability of modules and the interplay alters significantly.

amber hemlock
#

Imagine getting buillied by Teleport 14 Bond 14

amber hemlock
#

It's kinda hard when we have MIA teammates to do so

#

Like...
Don't expose yourself (teammates included) to enemy for potential leap triggers.

#

Every time I saw someone get leap triggered makes me:...

#

Most problems I saw where enemies able to leap from you/teammates on midfield is because they are exposed too much.

umbral kindle
#

I'm not a fan of the leap mechanic either, but you already arrive and cause damage, you should not have God mode too. But, I'm also good is leap goes back to what it was.

amber hemlock
#

Idk who changes the leap design...

#

Which is the main cause of Barrier changes

#

since Leap bypass old barrier mech

umbral kindle
#

The other method required a lot more strategy and coordination to get the same effect

amber hemlock
#

Also the Genrich changes from HS to DN makes you play a literal tower defense

umbral kindle
#

You go to the ships current location, not its target on the other side of the map

amber hemlock
#

Leap is like jumping by ourself no?

#

shouldn't require teammates

#

but current leap be like

#

requires at least 2 person

#

Corps with Low reactions won't be able to use Leap effectively

open zephyr
#

Everyone brings leap+alpha -> Everyone brings emp

#

I bet if dev make it into the future update, there will be many people complain that emp is too OP and needs nerfing😂

umbral kindle
#

Only vs alpha and you lose a mod just for that. If alpha is so overused that enabling one nerf is op, maybe it should be nerfed?

open zephyr
#

In 4hours

#

Or maybe 1 hit(3 delta rockets)

umbral kindle
#

Spread that out

#

And not to the same location

open zephyr
#

then too easy, I just need to deal with 2 ships.
I can kill a BS7 with lvl12 omega in 38min, 2 is 1h

#

Save delta rockets for the rest

#

😆

umbral kindle
#

Too easy to deal with a new battleship landing every 2 to 4 hours in different locations?

open zephyr
#

Imagine I setup a remote bomb.
and do chain emp after ebss land

#

🤯

willow leaf
open zephyr
#

I suggest increase leap cd to at least 2day

#

in WS

#

@umbral kindle 👆

willow leaf
#

Also dev removed supress

we all know meta with running supress and using it cross 2 to 3 sectors..

If supress would be here now days maybe as a drone or turret and small range like only 200au ..

it could technically change defensive play aswell..

umbral kindle
#

We used to crunch asteroids to change leap landing locations

#

Same concept but required a lot more coordination. The planet or asteroid would be the closest point to your ship. You would need to actually go there

open zephyr
umbral kindle
#

it wasn't just one ship at the wrong place at the wrong time

#

you had to coordinate miners to crunch the right stuff

#

some would genesis outside the planet sector to make crunching difficult

#

a last minute genesis or a last minute crunch could have a world of change

open zephyr
umbral kindle
#

you would go to where ever you drone can get in the same period

#

I used to leap to my drone 4 years ago in blues

#

the strategy changes, but it might not be bad.

open zephyr
umbral kindle
#

mining out an asteroid doesn't cancel it, it goes to a different one

umbral kindle
open zephyr
umbral kindle
#

you still have 10 potential leaps

#

I think in the last one, we surrounded the enemy relic point and leaped to other ships that were also there. Both the new method and the old method would have worked for that

trim owl
#

Wow
My finger hurt scrolling
Still fun reading
I agree with you. Every strategic choice should have a strength and a weakness that made it important to have some skills

reef finch
#

Alpha shield is too op now. It need a counter. Make old fortify back will be more balance

inland mica
#

Increase cd so it can be used less times per match in ws, bls leave it alone for rs, implement destiny & vengeance able to break the shield meaning if active the shield shuts off if hit by destiny or vengeance. Or emp turns it off I guess but then emp should deactivate all shields so imo destiny/vengeance breaks it, you "overload" it with damage and it breaks so it's not a completely impenetrable barrier. If barrier has high enough damage maybe tele into it breaks shield

#

Could set a overload limit in upgrade menu so if you had your whole team under wamp hitting it, it breaks it. But module base is less of a counter

#

Should say breaks it and causes no hull damage (destiny, vengeance)

twilit iron
#

How about making EMP range slightly bigger and giving it the capability to decrease a percentage of any mods activation time within range?

It'd live more up to its namesake then

static maple
#

EMP should disable everything and everybody.
If that makes EMP overpowered, a counter to that could be Mirror Shield.

static maple
#

Honestly, I loved the HS version of EMP where even the offending ship was disabled, especially in WS.
Which I probably have to spell out here is that EMP full disable should be in BLS and WS. I understand that Full Disable would jack up everybody’s RS play. I can agree that it would be bad and don’t want it in RS

twilit iron
#

In that case, EMP should also disable the ships thrusters so it's in perpetual motion until EMP wears off

static maple
exotic wyvern
#

Is the issue this suggestion is intending to address that EMP needs to affect more, do more, or is the issue Alpha shield being invulnerable thus ignoring an infinite number of active Barriers when teleport landing?

static maple
#

The original point of the thread was to disable alpha shield and thus render a ship defenseless because it is “unfair”. My argument is that if were to disable alpha, it should disable all shields but I feel that the short life span of alpha is more than enough of a negative to the shield

twilit iron
#

Yes, indeed

#

Which is why it should reduce a percentage of the duration of any mods that are currently active, which solves the issue

amber hemlock
#

Doesn't solve the leap that just intentionally suicide upon landing thought

#

which can be devastating in repeated leap suicides

#

RIP blast shield

#

Also -> You can't counter leap against this type of play

#

If you one shot them 🤣

worn gulch
# amber hemlock Doesn't solve the leap that just intentionally suicide upon landing thought

Could make a separate suggestion but what if ship death timer like 36 hours but the first 18 hours start to count down when you warp in? That way you only suffer the extra time if you die super quickly. Prevent people from getting a new ship and instantly sending it to suicide leap. Meanwhile for the average ship probably still driving to the fight in those 18 hours after warp in. Would need to be limited somehow so deaths near your own gate don’t suffer and can still defend properly.

amber hemlock
#

Then the game will be more defensive approach

#

I think

worn gulch
#

Anything to get away from suicide meta shrug

winged spindle
# static maple The original point of the thread was to disable alpha shield and thus render a s...

Emp being the only counter doesn't solve alpha shield in any way.
'Emp the alpha' > they use destiny and take everyone out anywayInwhich they could use emp to remove alpha themselves or simply not be in emp range..


Weapons need to damage, alpha shield is the only one they cannot damage...```^^Ie. 2 unique mod scenarios that neither solve the other
Making a half used mod go through it solves not much at all
#

.Mesmer shield...comment here
alpha shield instead gains stacks of damage ignoring
-10 hits and when running out its back to hull damage
-1k damage counts as a hit aswell as the hit itself so 2k destiny is 1 hit and 2k equalling 2 more stacks reduced

something that soft counters aoe madness and makes weapons more worth it against alpha shield
que no one caring and going for something that will never work

jolly tide
#

I agree that this suggestion introduces more problems than it solves

#

However I also had a similar idea in the past of reworking alpha to damage instances but think it will be difficult to balance properly

amber hemlock
#

Countering Alpha Veng with another Alpha Veng seems the lazy counter

#

Alpha Leap would just fuck Alpha vengeances really bad in early BLS game

wintry hazel
#

Or Alpha shield completely absorbs the damage from the biggest source of the same type at that instant. ie, alpha shield + teleport lands in multiple barriers -> it completely absorbs damage from the biggest barrier, but the lower levels still cause damage. Or it absorbs damage from biggest mbatt, but the lower levels still get through.

Or

Activating alpha shield makes your ship produce less damage by some %'age.

willow leaf
willow leaf
twilit iron
static maple
twilit iron
#

Ah yes, I love that

feral turret
static maple
# feral turret so basically nothing changes for the bigger corps. i have never seen them puttin...

Listen, there ain’t much we can do to “penalize” the top corps, they have the resources and put in enough time in the game.

Does it suck for the lower level teams, absolutely but this list of requests to the devs should be help enhance gameplay, not punish players.
The devs chose to keep all the progress made from the old HS WS rules rather than reset Corps to make it “fair” and I can’t blame them (him? Only one.m guy?) anyway. Had they reset all the corps, they would have had a larger player base loss than what already happened

feral turret
#

imagine you can smurf with a veng lv1 with 220au range and a impulse lv1 with +300% speed

static maple
feral turret
#

some corp put in a bs7 with a bunch of bs4, and 2 empty alts to bring down the ws score

#

and then the bs7 booms everyone and all other bs4s bring impulse shields

#

and on my side is casual untrained ws newbies

static maple
#

That takes forethought and planning.
What rank was the enemy, higher or lower than you?

feral turret
#

what do you mean rank

feral turret
static maple
worn gulch
subtle lily
#

make it cost hydro/cred to rejump after 1 ship killed

static maple
winged spindle
# willow leaf - hits ? this stacks flyby real quick by beeing in shoting range. assume 2 bs s...

A 1v1 would be a simple 0.5 second hit fight
A 2v1 is the same but its as is 2 hits every 0.5 seconds,
just like every other shield but unique to what alpha already does, rockets or weapons, dart doing the most.

Emp would actually benefit alpha shield instead of being insulting to the already screwed opponent

Its a shield and ignores total damage up to 1k probably (if its balanced in that form), it makes more sense than godmode or making a hyper specific mod undo the activate shield button

umbral kindle
#

An alternative counter could be a dps threshold where the shield ignores dps up to 3000 and applies dps to the hull above 3000, or some other number.

For example, 3100dps, would apply 100dps to the hull.
But that would probably significantly change how the shield is used.

open zephyr
twilit iron
#

True, I like Impulse Shield more

umbral kindle
worn gulch
#

Alpha seems to be designed to protect from 1 kit kills but in doing so it also protects from everything else forever. Everything needs a counter play

desert scaffold
#

It just needs less duration. In bls and Drs it is balanced by not lasting as long as you want it to.
In ws you can activate it and go to sleep and wake up and it's still going. Probably at the highest end it should last long enough to complete destiny

worn gulch
#

In drs alpha is balanced. In bls it lasts 3-4x the typical engagement length way too long

desert scaffold
#

Also worth considering: if EMP disables alpha shield then it also effectively disables vengeance.

Also also, clusters of blastshield ships with EMP will become godly and further exasperate p1 turtling

desert scaffold
#

One other thing to consider is that barrier causing teleport damage necessitates alpha shield. So if alpha can be disabled there has to be some other way to survive barrier damage or all combat will turn into long grueling chain ray sieges (or more likely teams will just stay on their side and try to out-produce each other).

worn gulch
#

In bls that’s not an issue other shields are fine because generally only one barrier around. In ws can just greatly reduce damage

willow leaf
#

whos able to emp an incoming leaper crossing the map from the other side😆

desert scaffold
#

In ws there are always enough barriers around (2 is all that is needed) to blink a ship out of existence.

desert scaffold
#

You need alpha shield to survive barrier damage, and you need to be able to counter barriers to have dynamic play.
So alpha is necessary. The duration is the problem, not the shield

willow leaf
#

I mean what's made for bls does not meant to be implement for ws aswell ?

#

emp disable alpha make sense for bls in some way

#

every module needs it counter

desert scaffold
#

I can't understand the text of your reply

#

Autocorrect is doing some kind of number on you

#

Ah, so I think I gather your sentiment. Yes, generally if something is balanced in bls then it is balanced in ws, with some adjustments

#

I understand the sentiment of "every module needs a counter" but I'm not convinced that disabling a shield is a valid example of that point.

willow leaf
#

for ws this topic anyway needs some other major change to the p1 meta 😅

willow leaf
#

does not mean it had to be the same affect for ws 🤷‍♂️

desert scaffold
#

Shields don't appear to have counters. They have pros and cons which make them balanced.

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If a shield has too many pros and not enough cons in a game mode, then it will become ubiquitous.

Currently, blastshield, impulse, and alpha all have good uses in ws.

Regen, alpha and motion seem pretty useful in RS and bls. (A bit of impulse and mirror at very low levels of bls)

But none of these shields are outright disabled (I guess motion is, but that's the tradeoff built into the shield)

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So in ws alpha just has too much time going for it. 8+ hours is too long to be invincible. If you bring alpha you should be weighing the risks of a quick death with the rewards of the damage you can do in that invincibility window

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And this is unrelated to the suggestion, but mirror, motion and Omega need some help to ever see use in ws.

willow leaf
desert scaffold
#

6^20?

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😆

willow leaf
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Lv15 says 6h 20m

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and lv15 would be 20 seconds in a bls
wich would be impossible to beat lol

desert scaffold
#

That's still too long. Even though it's less than the age of the universe

willow leaf
#

reducing any duration of it without changing anything on this p1 meta would just buff the p1 meta

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Least if emps disable shields there would be a risk for both attackers and defenders🤷‍♂️
stares at emp range

desert scaffold
#

P1 meta is a hydro generation and MM balance problem.

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It's not strictly an alpha shield duration problem

willow leaf
#

same for bls in my nls thers no single emp but bond bar veng 🤷‍♂️

including such emp makes stuff more interesting again

#

not everyone would run emp in bls..
same as for attackers in ws cause of its range

#

if its disables all shields thers a risk for both sides in ws

willow leaf
desert scaffold
#

Bls and ws are a little different - I get what you're saying about high level bls meta being the same

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I don't think disabling alpha is the solution in bls
I think reducing its duration is better

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Also, same with mirror and omega needing some juice for bls

willow leaf
desert scaffold
#

Thanks for the discussion, it's useful to talk about these details
I'm getting dinner but will be glad to continue later

willow leaf
#

introduce preecoked vengace to the talk noone would park ever their bs close to be in emp range

desert scaffold
#

Also, sometimes you need to defend the spot where leap is going

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Can't always dodge and barrier. This part of the game (leap and barrier and blastshield) already feels balanced

amber hemlock
#

One Fact about P1 meta:

Fighting against a P1 fort while you have completely disadvantage hydrogen by 30% difference (passing 80k Hydro+) is literally a losing battle.

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You attack them. They can counter leap your attack 🛌

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And this gif explain if both team can counter leap all day

worn gulch
#

Why can my leap insta kill a blast shield but not an alpha when blast shield it made for….blasts…?

amber hemlock
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20k damage is it?

worn gulch
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21

amber hemlock
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Leaping with 1 ship is a joke thought

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Interval leaping is the real deal

worn gulch
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Say that when I solo half your team

amber hemlock
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We are fucked because nobody responded haha

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Game ends if one of the team fucked up their defense :L

worn gulch
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lol I’m just saying blast should be the best at dealing with blast damage

amber hemlock
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But they need 2

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Otherwise they died without evac

worn gulch
#

Alpha shouldnt be a giant 🖕you just click and win

amber hemlock
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Hahaha

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Alpha Defense is awesome

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Especially Mbatt Alpha

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Reminds me of

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Where's that video

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3 leap vengeance does 0 dmg

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Alpha shield and no damage taken

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About ~90k damage tanked by an Alpha Shield

worn gulch
#

IMO this is what it should be for but now it should be without a shield and be shoot able.

amber hemlock
#

Thinking of sending a leap without alpha just to burn enemy barriers would be a good idea

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If you have spare leaps that can be used in an interval

worn gulch
#

But see the suicide meta is lame and what we’re trying to avoid. Want big flashy battles with twists and turns.

amber hemlock
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Add Barrier can't be Teleported also fix leap and dispatch

worn gulch
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Leap has always passed barrier

jolly tide
amber hemlock
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Suicide Meta.
But Leap and Tele in are the main mods to do so

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🤣

winter sleet
twilit iron
#

Lol, that'll turn into a relic buffet. Who's going to manage how many are taken out of the reserves?

winter sleet
#

Progressive death timer cold work too, like first time 18h, then +x h to this value after each death

twilit iron
#

Not a bad idea, will make them more cautious

winter sleet
worn gulch
winter sleet
twilit iron
#

Does the title still reflect the sentiment?

wintry hazel
willow leaf
# wintry hazel Even if a ws-team required stacked barriers to instantly kill a teleport, a few ...

In your example, however, it was stated that only the highest barrier is taken as the damage trigger.

Now, if we assume that only level 12 barriers are present, this would essentially be a free pass for every Vengeance player, as they would be able to trigger their retaliation.

There can’t be another Alpha Shield BS near the landing to deactivate such income attack if assume that the EMP deactivate shields just as I tried to explain to Alric.

Now, let’s consider the following scenario:
● The enemy teleports to Enrich with Vengeance/EMP.
● The enemy BS would be also deactivated.
● We take the Leap damage range into account.

Do you really think anyone would stand within the Leap damage range just to land their EMP, knowing they would take massive damage.

Additionally, in your example, it would still be possible to trigger Vengeance easily.

Besides that, if only one barrier counted, it would slow down the game flow and encourage players to save up barriers, which is different from how it currently works as usally 2 barrierer triggert.

willow leaf
#

Also, don’t forget that it’s no longer possible to spam Floating Shield, which also change most of the enemy’s P1 meta anyway i belive

umbral kindle
#

This post wasn't about the floating shield. it is about god mode without a counter.

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emp works. it has a short range and you can choose to stay out of it's range.

open zephyr
umbral kindle
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don't teleport right on top of people and you won't have the issue.

#

tools such as barrier or bond can assist

#

you get to arrive without an instant death

open zephyr
#

to kill it within 40m

umbral kindle
#

even if everyone had emp, it would still be difficult to counter, so I do not understand your issue with emp

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it's a single shield that needs a counter, emp fits that criteria

worn gulch
umbral kindle
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what generally ends up happening is 1 ship arrives every 8 or so hours and there is no counter at all for the prolonged presence

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I think it should have a counter.

worn gulch
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And by the time the last one lands and it dealt with the first guy is on his way back

umbral kindle
#

after 2 days, it's a loss because you spent too much time dealing with them instead of doing anything.

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the floating shield really doesn't work into the equation

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I'm not sure this was clear,
my suggestion was never to disable any shield other than alpha because alpha is unique. Alpha shield could have a small static animation to set it apart from the others. It would be even more clear why emp disables only alpha.

desert scaffold
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May I suggest a more general nerf to alpha shield rather than the EMP buff? It seems like we all agree that alpha is OP but we disagree on how to fix it

winter sleet
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“We all” (a couple of loud ppl)

worn gulch
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“We” the loud majority

desert scaffold
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Has anyone said that alpha shield is fine the way it is?

And we "all" are the ones voting on suggestions which will result in changes to the game.

static maple
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I think it’s fine as is

winter sleet
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I think it’s fine as is

feral turret
#

i think it's fine as is (maybe a bit too long in ws)

feral turret
#

changing alpha's mechanic will result in many arguments, so here is one of the only ways i can think of to slightly nerf it

twilit iron
#

Probably reduce alpha online time a little and increase EMP duration too.

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It's the easiest change. But I believe EMP should be made more interesting.

I still propose letting EMP decrease the duration of eBSs active mods or just shields in particular by a select percentage

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Would make sense that a shield took some hit from an EMP blast while protecting everything else onboard

inland mica
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I propose emp disables everything, all shields, barrier, pauses activation timers 😂

winter sleet
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Worth a separate topic

static maple
exotic wyvern
static maple
willow leaf
umbral kindle
exotic wyvern
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I'm not sure I like the idea that EMP disables Alpha shield; in practice it seems like it creates more problems than it solves.

umbral kindle
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I find it odd that more people do not see alpha shield as a problem? Have you never had a series of ships landing every 8 hours, all with alpha shields?

static maple
umbral kindle
static maple
dark hedge
# worn gulch No, make alpha 12 last as long as emp 12

EMP would become too powerful. I do not use Alpha, it is always a pain to counter it, but I would not want it nerfed too much. Right now the 6h barrier is doing the trick for me, with a good strategy, but I would love to see some EMP extra power that would affect an alpha shield, reducing time or turning is off?

dark hedge
worn gulch
dark hedge
worn gulch
dark hedge
# worn gulch No you can’t. They have 3 options to tele in and can bond move you.

As I said, it is a pain to deal with, but we have never had any issue countering the "Alpha" strategy (have not seen many bond with Alpha, but often TP is countered with dual barrier so...). There are couters that you can devise, but no direct one. The idea of EMP being a direct counter is interesting, it woud make EMP an interesting choice of module. The other option would be for barrier to affect Alpha (maybe its duration?) without fully killing it.

worn gulch
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So you are playing very low level Ws. Alpha in both Ws and bls is hella op.

dark hedge
umbral kindle
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and the next, and the next

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It is a good strategy, I feel that there needs to be some sort of counter to 'god mode'

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EMP is the obvious counter except that it isn't good enough in it's current condition

amber hemlock
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In top corps. This is the play. Pure delay for entire whole day. Stopping you from progressing.

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And if you can't even counter or defend. You are losing for good.

dark hedge
# umbral kindle EMP is the obvious counter except that it isn't good enough in it's current cond...

We have weathered the mass TP/mass leap, but never a fully separated and timed TP with 4 separated Alpha over 24h. @amber hemlock yes when we face corps that are organized we get this whole 24h onslaught, generaly concludes to our advantage. Most of the people we face are stronger in terms of "fire power", but we have yet to face a corp that can match us in terms of hydro management. So we have leveraged our advantage and usually, we are all over the map, so I do not mind the hard fighting to control a single sector. Not sure how representative the ELO listing is, but we are #5 on it at level RS9/RS10/RS11, so we have tough matches sometimes. As this is an EMP suggestion discussion, I would definitly like to see it become a direct counter to Alpha 🙂

umbral kindle
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ELO is basically win/loss.

dark hedge
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Yes, but you have to slowly creep up.

umbral kindle
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Depends who you match

worn gulch
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Elo had zero reflection of what level ws you are playing

amber hemlock
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When you facing against a corp with 90k+ hydro P1. Yeah it's gonna be a real chess

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Happens in Legion/HM matches 😂 🔫 7

umbral kindle
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My suggestion for the mining deal. I'm not sure why we went to this point and click single sector strategy when we used to have to maximize it. #1329261493362884628 message

dark hedge
amber hemlock
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Yeah. Once you accidentally touch that bracket. Via tech levels or higher FS. It's gonna be a more terrifying play

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Also mining mods in DN WS is the main factor now

viral jacinth
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EMP should also deactivate nearly everything. With the shorten range, the effects should be more impactful. Disconnect CRs, drop barriers, end teleports, reduce timers on active shields....

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If you let me get in and EMP, you shouldn't be able to power the next up CR to finish the job

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*(I only skimmed the above, I've just thought about this for awhile)

leaden crane
winter sleet
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Emp should prevent any mod to be activated, while active 💡

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But maybe a pvp duration needs to be adjusted

spring galleon
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and if I' ugprade to 13 that would only get me a whole 10m

smoky crater
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a whole 10m :0

spring galleon
# smoky crater a whole 10m :0

I know its like a dream come true. like alpha shield... lasts 5ish hours emp you need 3 lvl 12 ones to stop the shield that one just needs to wait for it to end to destroy the ship that's hanging out on the rp.

winter sleet
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This is the cost of having a luxury of not moving from the planet, while it is attacked. Usually single bs can't do much due to suspend and fs shield around, so full time emp is not required. In any other cases dodging within 8h them is super easy, and you have a leap trigger as a bonus now 😎

lapis night
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I agree with EMP disabling Alpha shield

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I feel like EMP should also disable the ship that activated it (Matrix Reloaded anyone?)

You could still launch drones

leaden crane
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is BLS included? that feels broken, emp and alpha timers are different there.

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(i mean the idea applied in blueStar)

static maple
#

Total revamp

I think EMP should disable ALL Ships and mods in activation range. And instead of activation time, range should increase with level.

umbral kindle
bleak siren
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Already upvoted this. Good

cobalt edge
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I do agree that there needs to be a counter to alpha, though I am seeing this as a double edged sword, the positives is it makes vengeance less dangerous along with high DPS wamp users but on the other hand nothing is stopping the same players using emp to counter alpha to allow veng to go off and destiny become more powerful as the emp counters alpha and means alpha users need to pop it at the last second to not die. Having emp disable alpha might just have emp take that throne alpha was on.

leaden crane
# cobalt edge I do agree that there needs to be a counter to alpha, though I am seeing this as...

but emp has a short range, while alpha basicly gives invulnerability, and you simole combine it with veng(up to 200au or more range?). I think it s agood trade off to make alpha counterable with a mod accured on same rs lvl, that also requires some skill to use.
If emp counters alpha, you have to be in range of alpha ship to use it-> alpha ship just have to keep you out of range until veng is off and wins.

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sure, it can mess up high DPS wamp builds(I use one) but the alpha has max 20sec duration while WAMP has 30sec. alpha is already suboptimal if the opponet has emp.

static maple
leaden crane
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like , they simply have to wait for you to pop wamp for them to use emp, and it doesnt matter if you time alpha right, you already screwed up.

leaden crane
static maple
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I just think this whole alpha shield is OP topic is a little tiring at this point

leaden crane
static maple
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Have EMP disable all shields

leaden crane
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if there is an emp in perimeter, its pointless to ise shirlds this way, but i can get by with alpha with good timing no matter the emp in range.

static maple
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EMP still need to disable the user to make it “fair”