#WT50 Work Parties

161 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

lapis rune
#

I request that the government looks into increasing the minimal wage. Before WT50 it where common for the one who created the WP to pay its minimal wage + plus 20% tax this resulted in a cost of 48euros at week 2 while the one who did the work received 40euro.
Because the taxburden have now shifted towards the one doing the work because they are the ones paying the income tax i suggest increasing the minimal wage by 10 euros on all steps.

This would keep the old numbers.
The result would be the one who starts the WP pays 50 euro and the one who does it keeps around 40 euro(if they have an effective tax rate of 20% which seems to be that average)
<@&838128115259277392>

limber dirge
languid cargo
#

There should not be an increase on the min wage for WP as the taxes are not constant and makes WP too expensive in some cases. This should be reverted.

tight jasper
#

I am aware of the seeds example by @swift reef

languid cargo
#

Any premium content would be one.
Also, as time goes in a cycle more people are dropping from playing, and sometimes WP are the way to go.
Additionally, putting this change in the federal law is bad as is carried to the next cycles and the taxation system and tax rate are not.

#

Also, putting an arbitrary fixed value is not valid as the tax rate is dynamic and not a constant.

tight jasper
#

We can revert the change via a vote at anytime so lets focus on this cycle.

#

Premium as in marketplace items?

languid cargo
tight jasper
#

Any other examples you can think of where it is the prefered method?

#

I am also aware iron bars are quite cheap via WP

languid cargo
#

These are the things that came to my mind at the moment, I'm pretty sure a lot of other examples can be given from community, but nobody really knew about this change

#

This kind of change should be done maybe through a referendum with discussions

tight jasper
languid cargo
#

Also, the increase in the WP wage doesn't have any explanation based on the current cost of the food, there were cycles with the food costing much more, and there were no issues

swift reef
tight jasper
languid cargo
#

I think the same is for Linen Fabric at the start of the cycle, as tailors are using it for tailoring

tight jasper
languid cargo
tight jasper
languid cargo
tight jasper
#

no thats not changed

swift reef
#

i mean by the tax logic it should have been changed

tight jasper
#

Do you think a certain rebate on WP for seeds and cellulouse fiber is fiable solution?

#

It will sit under agricultural scheme i suppose

languid cargo
#

This change should be reverted and analyzed properly.

#

I think, that not all the implications were taken into account

tight jasper
languid cargo
#

I never did any statistics

tight jasper
#

See if they can help you?

languid cargo
#

Were statistics taken into account when voting this law?

#

You can check my taxes, I paid 0% in the last days... If this was tax rate based you just increased the cost for me by 25%.

tight jasper
#

There is data from last cycle, as well as data from few day now - this is the purpose of testing it.

tight jasper
languid cargo
#

What is shown on the /tax card command

#

I paid 1.19 Euro UnicaSales tax, and I don't see anything else

tight jasper
#

you dont have tax paid as you only have 60 odd income lifetime

#

you wouldnt pay much if anything under the new tax either (havent run numbers)

languid cargo
#

But I would pay 25% increased WP

tight jasper
#

because the person who gets your payment will be paying more taxes?

#

the idea behind was that the average players gets similar payment after tax. I am not claiming numbers are perfect and correct

lapis rune
# languid cargo Were statistics taken into account when voting this law?

I was the one that started the thread and I took data into my arguement

past cycles the WP cost to put up a WP was between minwage+10-20%
Eernings from the worker was minwage.

I suggested that we try to reshape the law to be similare to that. Because we dont have exact data on effective tax and expected effective taxrate of workers we have to make a qualified assumption of expected effective tax. I Think a fair number for this cycle with current income tax is at 20%. Lowest bracket is at 15% and most people are around the lower end of the brackets.

So if we want to keep the ernings for the worker at the same rate we need to increase the minwage with 20%

This Suggestion I made was ONLY to keep the cost and earnings the same or close as possible that it used to be

languid cargo
#

That was one of questions, who implemented the WP to be taxed from the one receiving the payment?

tight jasper
#

but if we expect most players will be paying 25% profit tax, which i think is where we want to be at? WP payment is 100% profit

lapis rune
#

Tear it is the GMs to some degree

#

the income tracker counts all income and the GM/dennis forced the government to playtest income taxing this cycle

tight jasper
#

So the concept of this WT is Income tax - this is tax that looks at your overall performance, not individual sales

languid cargo
#

I'm pretty sure if the question was raised the WP were excluded, as they are a different kind of mechanic

tight jasper
#

They are excluded as an expense for the Requestor

#

so the person who pays, doesnt get tax cut

#

the person who receives the payment, gets profit from it, which is subject to tax

lapis rune
#

WP is included in income but not in expense

tight jasper
#

so if you were to fulfill a WP, you will be paying tax on the money you earned

languid cargo
tight jasper
#

but you order the work party, your tax will not be reduced from the expense

lapis rune
tight jasper
lapis rune
#

so if the need to change minwage because we get a drastic change i taxation on the player the government can vote to change it

#

The current minwage was based on a random thought 20 cycles ago probably I am pretty sure we changed the gameboard a lot since then

#

So it should always be up to debate in the government each cycle

#

It just have not been that until now

languid cargo
#

Can you explain then how you justify a 50Euro/1k cal price?

lapis rune
#

I cant and I dont have too

#

I based it on the old price and adjusted for the change in the taxation on the worker

#

The old price I assume was based on a balance to keep VI in check

languid cargo
#

900 cal at 10 Euro, Tier 3 food

image.png
lapis rune
#

Its not suppose to be valued at what the cost is for the worker to do it

languid cargo
#

But it is...

lapis rune
#

You are gaining value from the workers skill,

#

The metric they are using is to get a catch all number

languid cargo
#

It should be a fair wage

#

Not 1000% more than what is spent

lapis rune
#

So if your job in IRL paid you in food only for the day you would be fine with that? You dont want any money for rent, fun stuff, etc?

#

The worker wants a profit also

tight jasper
#

As I said, I dont recall anywhere stated that minimum wage needs to be locked behind current food costs

languid cargo
#

1000%?

tight jasper
#

as long as its not below, but that my view

languid cargo
#

The min wage and the wage/hour are made in order not to exploit other players

lapis rune
#

Its travel cost. Its investment in leveling up the profession its investment in buying the scroll

#

Then you compare it to oppertunity cost of doing the thing and selling in a store instead

#

You need to step back and consider why there is a minwage

#

its to keep the colleberation on the server working

tight jasper
#

@languid cargo what do you work party and what amounts, how are you affected by the change?

languid cargo
#

Do you know why the min wage changes from week to week?

lapis rune
#

inflation to some degree

languid cargo
#

Nope, because of the food requirements

lapis rune
#

false

#

because food gets cheaper in week two then week one

languid cargo
#

You need higher tier food

lapis rune
#

still cheaper then week 1

languid cargo
#

Which is more expensive

neat narwhal
#

only higher tier proffessions NEED higher tier food

languid cargo
#

Yes, and you are not going to make a law for each profession

lapis rune
#

for most of week one 1000 tier 1 food is more expense then week two 1000 tier 2 food

#

week one prices are insane after the change to research

#

I see tier 2 food at 8 euro already first day its out when tier 1 food was at 10 euro for a long time

languid cargo
#

This cycle, I bought the food I needed, at 1.5-3.5 which is not that expensive... Is true I didn't play in the first few days, but since I started to play I didn't pay more... Is normal for the food to get cheaper over time in the same tier

lapis rune
#

first 4 days the expected cost was 10 euro for a salad

#

thinkg it was around day 5 it slowed down

languid cargo
#

While the market gets more upgrades, prices are going down for that tier

lapis rune
#

yes but you said teir 2 food was more expense I just showed you facts that its not

#

its not the first time that you have been wrong and you just keep moving the goalpost

languid cargo
#

But, Cooking and Baking was released in day 8, the WP min wages are following the same intervals, I'm pretty sure advanced cooking would be around the same time with the other WP increase

lapis rune
#

I am gonna end my conversation here with.
The change I purposed and was voted in by the MPs

Made workparties pretty much the same cost and earnings for the one creating the WP and the one doing it as it has been the last few cycles

languid cargo
neat narwhal
#

what do you mean opener?

languid cargo
#

The one who was creating the WP

neat narwhal
#

Becuase you are not paying anything extra compared to last cycle

#

Its basically, Opener Pays the same, Worker earns more on average, gov earns less on average

tight jasper
#

you seem to not have income, which is fine, but its not the norm

lapis rune
languid cargo
#

I am, that's what I'm saying, I didn't pay any taxes this cycle according to my /tax card, and this just increased my WP price

tight jasper
#

ok but do you plan to trade?

languid cargo
#

Because I don't make any money

#

I didn't even open a shop

tight jasper
#

do you complete work parties?

languid cargo
#

No

lapis rune
#

If you did the same tax last cycle you would have paid 47,2euro now you pay 50euro

languid cargo
#

Because the skill I got is bugged

tight jasper
#

huh?

lapis rune
#

It it as close to same we could get with haven "clean" numbers

languid cargo
lapis rune
#

Last cycle you had tax

#

There was a seperate WP tax if you opened a WP

#

no matter if you had a store or not

languid cargo
#

Yes, but I think that was also based on the income tax

lapis rune
#

This is not to tax anyone more its to keep it as close to the same as before

#

Last cycle did not have income

#

This cycle we inreased it by the expected avg income to keep it inline with past cycle

languid cargo
#

I don't remember paying anything additional on WP, and I had a lot

lapis rune
#

So you are paying 50 euro thiss cycle and LAST cycle you would have paid 47.2euro

neat narwhal
lapis rune
#

You have been paying Workpartie specific past cycles even if you did not know it you paid for it

#

I was part of government last two cycles and both voted in WP tax based on what it was used before, i dont know how long back that has gone

languid cargo
#

No, because I know I had GM tickets open on WP, so I'm sure of it

lapis rune
languid cargo
#

I was paying exactly what the Private law is stating + I was adding a little bit

lapis rune
#

You then got an automatic tax at 18% mroe last cycle

#

two cycles ago it was either 10% or 15% I cant remember

#

three cycles ago it was free the first week and then they added 20% I think for week two and forward

languid cargo
#

I can't remember, I'm not checking the escrow after each WP, but I remember checking it few times and was the same

lapis rune
#

Escorw is the same

languid cargo
#

I know

lapis rune
#

its a seperate line in your main wallet that said WP tax or something like that

languid cargo
#

Escrow is actually what is reserved in order to pay the WP even if you go below the line

lapis rune
#

everyone has been saying that its the same so just take everyones word for it you PAID TAX LAST TWO CYCLES

languid cargo
#

It could be... That's I said I can't remember when I did the last check on WP payment. I know I had issues at least once with WP because of 0.01 bank transfer and had to be solved by GM, but at that time, the escrow was exactly the same with what I entered in the WP window

lapis rune
#

People where doing tax eveasion by puting the cost at 0.01 cent and then leting the autominwage law fix the correct amount. Then it did not get taxed. I did ask Weylin(GM) to fix that issue last cycle

#

not sure if he got to it

languid cargo
#

Ok, I'm perfectly fine with paying it as long is not put under federal law and moved in the next cycle. The taxes are not moved from cycle to cycle.

#

The taxes are not part of the federal law.

#

Why would you change the federal law for this?

languid cargo
# tight jasper huh?

And to reply to this one, regarding my current skill, the Painting skill is bugged, I can't paint due to a bug in Easel. At the moment that is just a wasted star, if this is not fixed during the cycle, the only thing that will sell from there will be the ink for modern papers.