Taxes WT49

[inland cipher]

I propose that we abandon the current tiered tax system in favor of a more cohesive model—a flat 15% tax applied uniformly to low-, mid-, and high-priced items.

From my interactions with citizens of White Tiger, I have received an overwhelming response indicating that most people do not take the different tax brackets into account when setting their prices. Instead, they tend to focus on the highest rate and base their pricing decisions accordingly. This suggests that the intended effect of encouraging producers through lower tax brackets is not being used.

Given this I believe the funds and effort currently used for the tiered system could be more effectively allocated to other areas.
A flat tax would simplify pricing for everyone.

[lime ravine]

I am against a flat tax as it has shown to strangle the movement of lower end goods. Many say they account for the highest tax, but when competition pushes them they do start to look into it rather than just assuming. In the spirit of simplification, would advocate for a 2 tier tax system, Parts vs Finished goods.

[chilly forge]

I just want to point out that it wouldn't be favorable for us to do anything lower then 25%. Last cycle we were running low and had to do lzer tower names.

I suggest keeping it normal around 20-30%, and I am fine with a tier tax as long as overall it is around the margin.

There is some prevention now for naming rights and I suggest making sure we can get money early as that is when peopel are active and most sales are done

[lime ravine]

I am not against a higher average level of tax.

[inland cipher]

I agree that in theory it should increase the flow in the economy, but I have seen firsthand that we are not getting that effect. The midsection is the bulk of the taxes. We did a split 13%/25% on mid/high last cycle. If we had just done a uniform 15% on this, we would be collecting more taxes overall than what the other system would have given us.

One issue the Government in WT48 had was that they changed out their PM every week. So in the end the wage expense was over 30% of the income per day

[lime ravine]

Mostly I concern myself with the movement of raw goods such as raw food, rocks, sands, papers. Which tend to stiffle anyway much less when taxed heavily.

[chilly forge]

Yes, and we also need to prepare for stuff like that

[chilly forge]

we can push ports and trade hubs this cycle if people want to "avoid" tax on low tier goods

[lime ravine]

Tax-free exchanges in certain districts for certain goods?

[chilly forge]

I think for easier flow of stuff. We can do as suggested a flat rate and introduce areas that help with moving raw goods

[lime ravine]

Time willing, i'd be up to try and push that with people.

[inland cipher]

I like the idea of giving incentives to trade hubs through lower taxes.

[lime ravine]

I am not transporter this round, but one thing I find frustrating is not being able to move goods to exchange points without taxes. but, little off track I am.

[chilly forge]

that would be easier to code to exclude or to offer lower tax at location.
Beside that, I am fine with a flat rate. Are we happy with 15% and are we sure that will be enough for prepairing for late game goals + any mishaps that could happen. As the first 2 weeks are our busy trading weeks

[inland cipher]

If we agree to try a flat rate. What number are we looking for. I believe if we keep the wage expense down and aim for a 15% this would both give us more income and we would have a better standing then last. Depending on what taxbreak we are aiming for we might need to bump it up a few points

[lime ravine]

I am fine with 15% or 20%

[inland cipher]

what would the taxbreak be 5%?

[lime ravine]

Lower than 15% I think will screw gov.

[chilly forge]

we could always start at 20% and recap each 2 days with a review

[inland cipher]

I am thinking 18% global tax. 13% if you are in a district?

[chilly forge]

if we do 20% tax break could be 5-10

[lime ravine]

oh, you mean reduce by 5%. I thought you meant it would be 5%.

[inland cipher]

I would be hesitant to offer a 10% rebate that might force people into using the trade hub. I’d rather present it as a suggestion.

[chilly forge]

I would suggest involving Mayors to cordonate their own trade hubs

we had 0% ports before

[inland cipher]

Are we fine with doing 18% flattax on Low/mid/high and sending it to a vote so we can get the ball rolling?

[chilly forge]

yeah we should

[neon glade]

I believe that any tax should be higher than 20 percent, with the exception of the tax on paintings - it should not be

[chilly forge]

Your voting no, because you want it higher then 18% right?

you think we can figure out other ways then sale taxes? I created this #1373396806544920710 to try to pull money out of only sale tax if you have more suggestions

[inland cipher]

We got over 38% increased taxes compared to last cycle with our 18% I believe this should be enough to secure our government

Anyone know why I cant add/remove mangers/users?

[neon glade]

for a convenient calculation, the tax should be 20

[chilly forge]

I see what you mean now

[chilly forge]

are you sure you have either of those titles XD

[inland cipher]

I can see the account so i should have rights

If i dont have rights I should not see the account

[chilly forge]

clicking x on the manager should remove

[chilly forge]

can we add the 2% as a revote after? I don't want to delay taxes to do a revote

[inland cipher]

I dont agree with that logic, keep it at 18 and let the people calculate it at 20 and they keep the 2% extra profit margin then

[chilly forge]

well I was suggesting casting just a vote after to see what everyone wants

[inland cipher]

I agree that we should pass it now and change it later

[neon glade]

Why did I vote against it?

1. The tax should be convenient for calculations, if a citizen should mean a tax that is convenient for himself in calculating goods, then this will lead to problems in court
2. The tax on paintings is an actual obstacle to the common victory, demotivating citizens to engage in culture

I'll vote for if

1. Tax 20
2. Abolition of the tax on paintings

[inland cipher]

I disagree with 1)
I dont think any citizen would want to pay 2% more tax just so it would be easier to calculate 20% instead of 18%. And in this case the citizen could just keep the 18% taxrate and calculate it as 20% and get the same outcome that you purpose but without paying the extra 2 points.

With the increase from 13% to 18% from WT48 on mid-tier items we have increased the taxburden on our citizens with over 30% already compared to how our last cycle.

18% should be enough for us to maintain an effective government and work towards our goal.

[neon glade]

1. I figured out why the tax is 18 percent. As I understand it, this is due to the fact that Unica and other cities want to provide their infrastructure with a 2 percent tax. As a result, the total tax for a citizen is 20 percent. I withdraw the original claim on this point.
2. The tax on paintings still harms cultural progress in the long run and complicates our overall victory in the cycle

[chilly forge]

I think the tax on painting is just a import issue

I have no bias to if it is there or not

[inland cipher]

2. I dont know where you have gotten that we are taxing paintings? We have only talked about taxing Low/Mid/High items at 18%.
   We did not have time or the ability to talk about the other possible tax burdens because of the chaotic nature the start of the federation had.
   Section 5. 6. 7. 8. is suspended with 0% tax rate we where lacking our PM for our initial debate so we only talked about the core "sales Tax" Section 5. 6. 7. 8. Is at 0% and will be a talking point for a future debate

[neon glade]

I don't mind discussing these points now

[inland cipher]

Taxing paintings have no bearing on the current Law we are proposing so I would urge you to change your vote so we can get it approved.
I am going offline now

[neon glade]

I will vote for the law because I don't want to harm the federation, but I also expect you to eliminate the tax on paintings in the future.

[lime ravine]

I second removing taxes on paintings.

[inland cipher]

There is no tax on paintings!

there never was a tax on paintings

[neon glade]

At least the description says it's there

[inland cipher]

#1373355453517664326 message

It is put at 0%

[neon glade]

Well, there are still typos in the description of the paragraph of the law.

[chilly forge]

Soon will open up to any new changes, also adding WP + Rent

[chilly forge]

<@&807619796924497940> I should have pinged yesterday maybe

Adding Working parties and rent.

debade:

What % for WP
what % for Rent
Tax on repair? Yes or no
Tax on painting? Yes or no

Conclusion: maybe to speed it up we can just take average on all suggestion unless you are highly against taxing it

[lime ravine]

50% wp tax!, 5% rent, no repair or painting tax.

[inland cipher]

Tax on Painting.
I fear that if we leave paintings unregulated there will be a loophole that can be used by the rich too move assets around

• Same as salestax

Tax on repair
I think it would be unfair if we keep tax for repairing tools and other similar adjacent items so I would favour a tax on repair also.

• Same as salestax

Tax on WP
I think we should either go max or same as sales tax. I dont know if max is 25% so we dont have any risk of overtaxing our citizens according to the constitution

• Same as salestax or 25%

Tax on Rent
I agree that we should tax it. I will leave the numbers up to my fellow MPs because I am invested in the rental business.

[lime ravine]

Tax on Repair: Income from repair is miniscule. Somewhere between 5 to 30 euros is what I have seen. The person must travel to the location and sometimes they provide the repair material. It is in my opinion that repairs are done more for consideration than as any meaningful income and what little is made one the repairs is hardly worth taxing.

[inland cipher]

I agree that it's a minuscule amount, but for equality, it should be there.

[grand hearth]

20% WP tax
20% Rent tax
10% painting tax
5% repair tax - make repairs the least taxed item because we really want people to repair broken items - just a small tax to say hey we'll get just a small amount of it

[neon glade]

Tax Painting.
Paintings should not be taxed, so that they are not used as a means of transferring money, we can propose to the Minister of Culture to develop a price list for paintings.

Tax on repair
I consider the repair tax unnecessary, it is better to develop a system where money will be collected if a citizen does not have a level 2 profession - this will improve and provide work for repairmen.

Tax on WP
I think this tax needs to be leveled with the sales tax.

Tax on Rent
I think this tax needs to be leveled with the sales tax.

[lime ravine]

Are we re-launching this with the correct wording this time?

[chilly forge]

Did

Also should we add a WP fee on creation ;>

[inland cipher]

What do you mean with WP fee on creation?

[neon glade]

@chilly forge I have reviewed the proposed tax law, and I will vote against any law that contains a tax on paintings. Paintings are thankless and charitable work that should never be taxed.The paintings are sold in small quantities and cannot alleviate the tax burden of the Federation in any way.

[chilly forge]

This is a 5 party team. It is that low to repsect your imput. Denying others input. Please also respect that we are a team.

4 of the others wanted higher. It was placed at 10% base on your input

[chilly forge]

We are all here to work together as a team. I personally feel that there been a lack of work or input. You are free to have your own point of view on discussion. Is why I approached this on an average and sum up everyone's input. We are not just here to press a button or just say "no". I would like to see more collaboration from everyone and work together if possible.

So I am asking you a little respect in this term. If I make sense. I value each one of you discussion and feedback.

If I didn't value your Input Thebayan I would have kept painting at 20% base on majority vote. WIth respect to your input I lowered it 10%.

if we placed it at 0, then we wouldn't value the other 3 mps input

if that makes any sense

[neon glade]

@chilly forge That's how the democratic process works: you either agree with the law or you disagree. Every member of Parliament voted. During the election, I clearly stated my position and received the votes to take up this post. I understand that engaging in politics means not fulfilling your obligations to your constituents, but I appreciate the work of each of you and each of my constituents. I can't betray them.

[chilly forge]

Please vote no then, cheers

[neon glade]

@chilly forge I propose this option, it will be honest with everyone:
I will vote for and the law will be adopted so that the federation can receive taxes, but we will launch a general referendum on the introduction of a tax on paintings.

[chilly forge]

Referendum is allowed by anyone. Feel free to do so if you have good support of the public. We don't see enough of those

I understand democratic elections and votes. Even then, I still want to allow people to influence a decision. We are only 5 up here. We each represent our voters.

That is why I influenced the final decision with your input. Cause I know you represent your own

Sometimes it feels unfair as you need the support of stleast 3 MP to do things