Post-Auction Silver Generation Musings

[torpid tide]

Porter decreases encumbrance, it's like WR. The issue is small races still can't pick up things that weigh more than them even if they have room in their bag.

[zenith bane]

It would be if porter let you pick up an item that weighs more than your character

[lethal bolt]

Ahh. While important to note - probably not as useful as just blanket encumbrance your character can handle. At least in the OLD WORLD.

[zenith bane]

Canonically, literally nobody in Elanthia is capable of a > BW deadlift.

[cold inlet]

RIP me.

[lethal bolt]

Has your gnome army tried to work TOGETHER to pick up those big ones?

[cold inlet]

I was just about to say, can't even team lift. It's a scam!

[winged valve]

What if silver enhancive recharging was year round? Personally I just buy the year round potion, but would use silver based enhancive recharging on some temporary ones if it was available more readily?

But with Halloween candy I can see why it doesn’t do great. Halloween candy is fun and recharges enhancives.

[lethal bolt]

Is that why people go mad for halloween candy? I had no idea...

[winged valve]

I like this idea. Skyrim has it for some skille

[compact tinsel]

Enhancive recharging fr silvers isn't offered very frequently though, is it? Is it priced appropriately? Wondering if that could be a bigger drain if tweaked and permanent

[lethal bolt]

Thought it was just once a year. Crazy to see how much it sucks out only being available once a year!

[winged valve]

Meh. It’s one reason. And putting in the work with large enough volume can make a pittance of profit selling the individual components.

Actually this is a great price point for a “weekly buy a blue exp orb” option that could be implemented. Roughly the cost of fair trade Halloween candy raw parts maybe?

[torpid tide]

WPS for silvers is oncetwice a year too not counting the citizens wps

[wet forge]

Twice!

[winged valve]

Is that the citizens only one, then the usual new years one?

[torpid tide]

Don't think so

[lethal bolt]

Is it outside of a festival window? Or is it separate from the normal service window? Cause getting more than 10 services is crazy priced in event currency - would hate to see what it is in silvers.

[winged valve]

Then there’s the premium one too.

[wet forge]

Yeah, we usually bookend the year with WPS for silver and then Ornath and Premium had it.

[winged valve]

Same service windows. Just not at festivals.

[lethal bolt]

I really like this list! Lets get on with the loot corrections so we can see some of them! Oh- but also don't forget to change the cost to do stuff with gemstones after the correction. If you make it more affordable to lesser unbind/reroll that would drain more silvers I bet!

[zenith bane]

Part of me wants to say leave the WPS smithy out permanently on FWI as a prem perk. Let the window do its job to govern the speed and cost with which projects get done. But I can see Grit Enjoyers being (rightfully) annoyed. Grit just needs redone.

Gemstone system costs could definitely use a look after the dust settles on loot updates. As it stands I think paying to unbind stuff with silver is a tall order if you’re having your monthly income reduced. The cost for additional slots, too.

[wet forge]

There are things I don't like about WPS. At a SimuCon, I wanted it to be a more linear option. I am not a fan of the reset. So minimal is really spent now on it. We had eager projects for awhile, but those seem done and over with.

[lethal bolt]

As someone who has NEVER hit loot cap and probably never even soft cap - rerolling/unbinding are just too darn expensive to deal with! I haven't amplified - but honestly I'm willing to pay for the cost as is!

[grave bison]

People will just stop buying WPS without a reset.

[zenith bane]

This is sort of a result of there not being anything to do with your old gear when new stuff comes out so people just stopped making new gear. I know I did. I’m not going to eat a 70% loss on stuff.

[wet forge]

Now. But not if we started it right.

(Because it's wrong now, har har)

[grave bison]

I feel like the big disconnect here is value vs cost

[lethal bolt]

It will kind of always be as people value things differently. Like...you have those CRAZY people who value +5 AS worth the 40m potions or whatever. We should really go to the "Oamir" standard of value. I'm right there in the middle of the pack in terms of spending money, earning money, and um...whatever third thing makes it more likely to have me be the standard.

Just another role i could have served for the community if I had been chosen as an Envoy

[wet forge]

Waste of time to create project pieces these days, do you all think?

[obsidian lagoon]

Yeah, I'm not starting a new set of armor after working on a set for 5 years....

[wet forge]

Like if I made an item that has extreme properties, but lacks in some way.

[cold inlet]

I just keep training more weapon skills

[lethal bolt]

As someone who makes alts and plays alts - I'm always starting SOME project piece. But again - I'm not spending 100m equiv. on each alts projects.

[barren berry]

I like my 3x resist base sets as project pieces. If that answers your question.

[wet forge]

Like an axe that is -10 AS but has 4000 service points and weighs a lot.

[obsidian lagoon]

I mean, I'm 5 years into working on my armor, I can't imagine what you'd have to offer for me to consider a project.

[wet forge]

(That axe already exists, just an example)

[grave bison]

I'm sure someone would get a kick out of it

[lethal bolt]

Isn't that just a standard oldschool claidh?

[obsidian lagoon]

I was thinking that

[wet forge]

Yeah there was an axe at one of the auctions.

I think EG 2006.

It was released again at DMC.

[torpid tide]

The thing that made me consider changing armors is the kind of power you get from zelnorn without spell hindrance!

[obsidian lagoon]

Just across all my characters, there's so little possibility of me changing weapon/armor. There's so much money/time invested in all of them. I'm not kidding when I say I can't imagine something you'd offer that would make me start on a new set.

[zenith bane]

If you already have existing projects? Yeah kinda. Unless you’re just oozing money then have at it

[lethal bolt]

For me - any idea of having multiple projects is directly related to cost. I always thought rage armor would definitely get me to start over for a character or two- not because I really needed +50 As - but I certainly wasn't valuing it the same way GMs did

[obsidian lagoon]

Maybe if the new set allowed full transfer of existing properties I guess.

[lethal bolt]

Did people spending during DR go up during the material transmutes and the lowering of cost to script add? I think that would show that lower prices could mean more in spending.

it was fun to spend 50k and transmute my item even though I didn't really need it rather than start over with an item of that material

[wet forge]

Another thing to keep in mind, we do have thousands of active accounts. We're over 3k active when we include F2P. We have over a thousand unique active players. So a lot of what we discuss here is just a small subset of the playerbase. We definitely want to create items for people who aren't represented here.

But... a good chunk of those people don't participate in a lot.

[obsidian lagoon]

Of course, discord is the vocal minority.

[grave bison]

I want systems that would include everyone, giving everyone something to build towards. Like fusion 3.0

[shrewd umbra]

Savants at 10b?

[torpid tide]

That would be kind of hilarious. It would happen instantly I bet.

[grave bison]

How much for MnM Bards

[cinder trout]

You need to sacrifice a few well known Bard players, no silver can overcome that void

[obsidian lagoon]

I know people are haha only serious on this, but letting people bid on which project from a list dev works on next would be interesting.

[grave bison]

I'll give you Yakushi

[compact tinsel]

With the amount of gear that is out that has built up over the years. YES. Unless someone wanted something VERY specific.

It's like the car market, but if the old cars still functioned 100% and were totally viable.

Eventually, there's just too many viable 2nd hand products out there to really want to buy new.

---I know this idea is nearly impossible to implement.... but would be awesome to be able to trade in old stuff for a portion of the scrip cost back, that could be used on new stuff

[lethal bolt]

That would be horrible! The rich would only vote on project that would help further their riches! We'd need like...the rich people's widows to come and distribute the wealth to make it fair

[torpid tide]

I mean it doesn't sound like that would be an option with the loot nerfs coming!

[obsidian lagoon]

That's why I said, from a list. Not just pay for any dev you want.

[wet forge]

We wouldn't do that, because any significant buy in would demand it go a certain direction.

[obsidian lagoon]

I wouldn't expect it to happen, just said it would be interesting

[wet forge]

Maybe we do it on something smaller and see what happens one day.

[zenith bane]

Let people pay silvers to un-attune attuned gear. A lot of silvers.

[lethal bolt]

Ok - but..large MA groups - do they count as 1 person? Cause that is still the wealthy controlling the direction!

[grave bison]

Do what on smaller

[compact tinsel]

You could cap contributions by account to level the "voting"

[cinder trout]

I can see on it a PowerPoint slide now... "GM Development Time as a Revenue Service"

[wet forge]

Oh I never went back and answered some of the stuff from yesterday. So tracking silvers is a bit interesting, because there wasn't much effort put into it for a long time. We can build out tools to do it better once 64-bit is here. But until then, my guess is we'd crash on any form of automated tracking.

[obsidian lagoon]

Fair, hard to track something that rolls your numbers all the time.

[wet forge]

I had a tracker bot running to do it for awhile the last few years. But it's not super smart and doesn't account for hiding your silver in your socks.

[gritty folio]

stop looking in my socks

[lethal bolt]

just my T5 lucky socks

[daring narwhal]

https://www.softbored.com/content/images/2021/06/whatsinthebox-2.gif

What's in the sox?!

[tawny pivot]

I don’t think this is the craziest idea if they narrow it down to some reasonable scope like a choice of what the next battle vault item is. That would also double as solving the issue of not knowing beforehand whether a given battle vault item will be worth the time to code in terms of desirability.

[harsh flame]

Create a shell of a town, and let players contribute time, materials and silver to develop it into a large city

[rich imp]

An evil city? Kidding but this is a neat idea. (Austin Powers pops up in my head far too often)

[harsh flame]

well just a community goal that's in-game that people can work towards and eat up some silvers (though there would need to be some incentive for players to actually contribute)

[rich imp]

Wow this could be a source of non hunting exp like some folks have been asking for.

[barren berry]

A brand new remote outpost with essentially nothing until players build it and recruit npcs for it, maybe also having to defend it so there is a way to have combat is something I think could be super cool. Each player would be able to put their stamp on the game so to speak.

[winged valve]

Could even set goals based on existing bounties. Make the escort bounties be to escort supplies to the new place. If certain numbers of these bounties are completed the outpost gets all the supplies it needs and there’s a global reward.

Players need to contribute silver to purchase these supplies, then the bounty system escort tasks move the supplies to the outpost.

[snow lodge]

maybe try to funnel some silvers into development of new areas where people can get a pawnshop or some type of building dedicated to them. Like someone sponsor a pawnshop in HW or something like that.

[barren berry]

Yeah street names, buildings, services, maybe even a NPC is a cousin. People pay quite a bit for properties. Not sure its the same scale but could be interesting.

[snow lodge]

yeah might be a good way to drain some silvers for something that was going to get created anyway.

[agile wadi]

Now that's something I would definitely consider investing in!

[winged valve]

For sure. I don’t think it should be like “players design the thing,” but “players get some options for how to name some things and vote with silvers or in game actions from a curated GM approved list

[cinder trout]

How about mini-nuggets for silvers available all year round, 10mil silvers and its like a faenor nugget for all enhancives with a total bonus of 10 or less? enhancives of total power >10 still need premium service from HESS.

Maybe thats part of the enhancive reroller dude's services

[snow lodge]

I think if OSA became ascension compatible that might push some people into acquiring more boats like make one of the oceans ascension that has a port so people can dock and sell stuff. Could also make even more add ons to ships to purchase

or just make an ocean that doesn't have a port an ascension ocean so that people are forced to actually travel away from a port. 🤣

sell more storage for hauling boxes and stuff

[torpid tide]

They could release air osa! Hunting air ships is how you generate onslaughts!

[snow lodge]

ship upgrade to convert to air ship? or transform into one or maybe just Peter Pan it with some pixy dust

[torpid tide]

yep all of the above are options 😁

[zenith bane]

At first I was opposed to opening up gemstones to traditionally non-ascension content (I don't know how you make OSA or bandits ascension given how easy they are) but after 9 months of finding nearly entirely trash stones I kind of don't care anymore. Let everyone find gemstones. Whatever. Why gatekeep it, lol.

[spiral scaffold]

I only see allowing Gemstones to drop anywhere as a healthy net positive for the game.

[compact tinsel]

Or maybe it becomes tiered...
Anything level 100+ can drop gemstones
Non-Ascension can only drop commons or rares
Ascension can also drop legendaries

[spiral scaffold]

I think about that and then conclude nothing changes.

[compact tinsel]

yeah, it just feels like "the hardest content" should yield "the best rewards"

[torpid tide]

the hardest content increases your drop chances already.

[zenith bane]

128 jewels and 2 legendaries. Nothing would change for me, lol.

[compact tinsel]

but the odds of finding the perfect gemstone combos are so small, whatever, open the flood gates! lol 😆

i've found 300 gemstones... and all but ONE of the gemstones i'm using had to be purchased from someone else

[torpid tide]

move regional drops out of ascension areas and put them in other areas as a kind of invitation to the ascension area

[spiral scaffold]

I'm not finding my own gemstones. I literally will not live long enough with my one character on my one account with my RNG. I need to buy them on the open market.

[odd badger]

rerolling single properties at additional cost would probably pull out a decent amount of silvers.

[compact tinsel]

Would be a great silver sink if they just removed the dust cost on rerolling

[spiral scaffold]

Just let me lock in a property or two then let me reroll the other one

[compact tinsel]

I'd be shocked if they opened that up.... but yes that would be awesome

[lethal bolt]

What the heck! That's a lotta gemstones!

Do you dust them all or something?

[cold inlet]

I have failed to find 78 jewels 😭

[winged valve]

From zero to not zero?

[winged valve]

I mean, I’ve opened hundreds of packs of magic cards. For the most part, I don’t use the cards I open and I sell them to get the cards that I wanna play with.

Gemstones are a lot like cracking packs

[torpid tide]

#gemstones message
I mean actually hardest of the hardest, not just ascension

[inland zephyr]

We aren't supposed to just use whatever single property commons we find forever on our mains? Journeys Beginning my ride or die.

[compact tinsel]

I've upgraded a lot, but I also use it to reroll a legendary once a week hoping to get something that's an upgrade from what Ihave.
I know some would be like "oh yeah, another guy with more $ than sense".... but Im' not here to make a profit, just want to enjoy the game, so I dont feel the need to sell all the gems. Would rather just have fun and roll the dice!

I earn plenty from the resources and loot my crew gathers while finding the gems

[signal cave]

I’d be intrigued to see it opened to all levels and all hunting grounds given the rarity of the stones. though I’m not sure how you instance the quest to make it level relevant to the character.

[cinder trout]

All the legendaries I have found on my guys have been great matches for the finder even if not 100% perfect, I just slide them on for instant benefit with no cost. I guess you can try to sell them if you think that the silvers would bring you a more suitable legendary but having any legendary equipped > no legendary equipped.

The legendary market seems to have fallen hard, I think the bottom in now like 30mil for average midtier legendary and even less for the Imaera's Balms. Who knows what it will be like in 2026....

Might as well equip

[obsidian lagoon]

Or, if not tiered availability, tiered in terms of the bonus on the RNG towards things that don't suck.

[obsidian lagoon]

fwiw, I haven't seen a "good" legendary in months now up for sale.

[inland zephyr]

To be fair the price of everything is kind of speculatively in the trash right now due to the <gestures at all of this>

[lethal bolt]

Not far enough into the toilet for my liking!

[winged valve]

https://tenor.com/view/dragon-httyd-toothless-gif-7332960

[safe parcel]

I wonder what an Attune Removal Certificate would auction for.

[grave bison]

0, since it'll never happen

[obsidian lagoon]

I mean, I could see one happening for like 2b. At that price, you're clearly offsetting any attunement discounts that were provided. And we were told there would never be prof changes either.

But they would probably sell it in event currency equivelent.

[upbeat fossil]

Removing attunement would kill a lot of good will with the player base. Don’t see it ever happening.

Would make me queasy personally if they ever allowed it.

[obsidian lagoon]

But, if the price is so high that it clearly offsets any possible benefit from having it been attuned, 🤷‍♂️

It would have to just be absurdly priced.

[lethal bolt]

Why would it make you queasy? I have a hard time imagining it being "worth" it in almost any scenario that they would be likely to offer it.

Like I do regret attuning several of my items...but I'm certainly not willing to pay more than I was likey to sell it for (best chance 50-60% DR costs minus silvers for services) just to get it unattuned

[compact tinsel]

Yeah, I just dont think it's a can of wyrms that they'd want to go near with a 10ft pole.

[sour drift]

Sentiment aside, what would the downside of unattune at 2b be?

[frosty isle]

plat/shattered items where 2b would be consider cheap to unattune?

it would be something that just benefits the insanely rich

[lavish geyser]

Oh there's an idea for an auction item - a "can of wyrms" 😄

[obsidian lagoon]

Unless they merge shattered, it's a non-issue. Plat didn't have quite the bonanza of discount items everyone seems to think it did.
I don't think they could do it for silver, because in most cases, the attunement let people pay less event script for something (most). So they would want to recoup the lost event currency if they did it.

[grave bison]

Only if it summons Wyrom when you shake it

[upbeat fossil]

There’s a promise of permanence when something is attuned. It would be a big breach of trust.

Attunement isn’t an in-game decision, it’s more of a system architecture/ management decision. And that kind of stuff shouldn’t be tinkered with, or it makes me not believe anything the company does.

I see zero chance it would happen so it’s not really worth debating in my mind.

[compact tinsel]

I guess if it was a 2M+ event currency price tag (not silvers) - it means it would take someone spending 8B on an item to have "benefited" from the de-tuning....

I wonder how many items out there that are attuned have more than 8B+ event currency in them

[obsidian lagoon]

They have literally gone back on every "never"/"never again" that I'm aware of so I pretty much don't "trust" statements of permanence ever.

[compact tinsel]

That being said - i do agree with Idalias. Attunement has always kind of been "there's no going back".

[obsidian lagoon]

So was profession

[lethal bolt]

Yeah - I don't understand the concern when, like Ufian said, they have changed their stance on "never" more than a few times. So by now you really shouldn't put your belief in anything the company does (not that I agree by any stretch - they are allowed to change the rules and they usually change the rules and give benefits/bonuses to people who bought in under the old rules it seems like)

[sour drift]

And names! The one true permanence, names! But here we are.

[lethal bolt]

You'll never avoid the shame with them always visible in the PROFILE!

[upbeat fossil]

I think going back on anything described as “never again” is very bad.

Attunement would be next level bad because attunement applies to such a wide swath of items, whereas (I think) most of the stuff that they’ve broken the never again promise on has been one off, ultra high end stuff.

I don’t think they ever said you will never be able to change your name, or your profession. There was simply no option to do so, however.

[zenith bane]

Yeah "never" is only never until it's not

[obsidian lagoon]

They absolutely did.

[sour drift]

if one were to be offered, I'm mega curious what it would go for.

[obsidian lagoon]

I feel like 2M BS is about the pricepoint that makes sense for them, but I also don't think anyone would buy it at that price.

Because at that price they don't have to worry about if someone is coming out ahead, they aren't, regardless of the item.

[frosty isle]

why would people do it or offer it when they aren't going to come out ahead

[restive raft]

Depends on how you define come out ahead... In a sale, they wouldn't, but if they want to be able to use with other characters or something, they may value it for that

[cinder trout]

Never attune, you never know when you need to sell or swap. I gave my main's gear to my struggling OTF character and it went from like 7-10 deaths per day to never dying and every bounty finished pronto...... must be a skill issue

[odd badger]

Would be interesting to see if there's any attuned items worth that much. At least DR attuned.

[compact tinsel]

Someone could absolutely come out ahead if it was a second hand market purchase.

[obsidian lagoon]

I have some attuned stuff, but it's account attuned, and I only attune things on my main account.

[odd badger]

Also is the issue with silvers that there's too many silvers in general or that a limited number people are able to gain a ton of silver?

[frosty isle]

exactly there are plenty of plat gear that would be worth it

[obsidian lagoon]

Yes

[obsidian lagoon]

Even then, it would need a specific set of circumstances. Like you said, at 2M BS, that's 8M BS they would have had to get. I don't know if there even are anythings worth 8M BS to be honest.

[winged valve]

Why queasy?

[upbeat fossil]

#1446966828239949834 message

[pale ether]

I think there's plenty of items that cost millions of bloodscrip to make that probably would not be valued at millions of bloodscrip if you were to resell it.

[restive raft]

like....almost all of them

[compact tinsel]

No... but people sell account attuned stuff severely discounted.

Like someone purchases a 15x xazkruvrixis, splitter, MCW, GUB, Double Flourish, Enhancive, axe of doom (I'm not making that item up) for 2M event currency because it's account attuned.
Then spends 2M to get it unattuned.

Definitely cheaper than making it.

I get that it's an extreme example, but it is just an example of how someone could come out ahead doing something like that for 2M currency

[cinder trout]

At that point just sell the account
That's what some of the brooch whales did

[obsidian lagoon]

Yeah, I was thinking that.

[compact tinsel]

Yeah... we could dive a whole lot deeper on this, but probably best for us to divert back to silver generation musings though. We're kind of veering into a whole new topic

[obsidian lagoon]

So, I agree with your example, but that's really edge, and it would take someone having made the deal before the unattune happened, because once it's available it gets factored into price.

[cinder trout]

They just need add in the next tier of attuning 66% discount to be character bound, I bet that would be quite popular
Every tom, dicck, and harry running around with 125k char-attuned T5 sigil staff

[restive raft]

It'd definitely even the playing field for high-end gear for people....

[winged valve]

Gotcha.

FWIW, people thought the same about the MTG reserved list, and then the 25th anniversary set happened that were “proxies”. Everyone screamed “promissory estoppel!” But to no avail.

I understand your point.

[cinder trout]

Its still crazy to think how expensive the premium gear is..... we should be talking $100s not $1Ks for this stuff 🤣 , oh Gemstone

cutting edge text-based aRmAmEntS!

[winged valve]

That said, people and companies change their minds over time. What was correct 10 years ago needs to be allowed to no longer be correct 10 years later.

[spiral scaffold]

I kind of want to keep my head down on this one because I know it is a sore spot with some folks, but I suppose it is topical. As a former Plat player we had a few years with a pretty nice discount on HESS and Event Currencies pretty much across the board. I do not wish to speak for others, and they can weigh in if they want, but basically... it equated to me actually spending money.

If not for that discount I would have spent basically nothing, but it put things in reach so I wound actually building some pretty wild gear (don't worry, they attuned everything we brought down to our crystal amulets).

So it makes me wonder what would happen if they just threw the fear of crab mentality and sunk cost fallacy out the window and dropped prices. Would more people spending less > few people spending more? I dunno.

[obsidian lagoon]

People have made that argument before, I forget what the pushback on it was. But I think it was along the lines of "people spend what they can/want already" so selling a lot more for less doesn't really change anything.

[frosty isle]

they should try 75 percent off entry price next dr

or better yet discounted simucoin sale before 2026

[spiral scaffold]

All that said, and I've been saying this for years. You want a silver sink? Put out HESS with silver prices.

Just attune it all if upgraded via silver.

...create a black market for unattuned high end gear, lol

[compact tinsel]

I mean, you never know how it would play out.... but I'm guessing the people spending ridiculous amounts would still spend ridiculous amounts.
And if others were able to get some decent gear at reasonable prices, they'd probably wade into the shallow end.

[spiral scaffold]

Or straight into the deep end. I was big mad disillusioned at how pay-to-win the game had gotten in regards to gear, and that Plat discount basically gave me the lattitude to be like... well... if you can't beat 'em. Make gear needle go brrrr.

[pale ether]

Without the discount I never would have spend 10 grand. Period.

[lethal bolt]

I've always thought this since it applies directly to me. But certain things that I just can't fathom the cost of...say KO script/flourish. I think this is crazy over priced. I certainly would never pay 100k BS to apply it to just one item. But do I value it probably as much as dispel flares at 30k BS? Yes! I would definitely spend 30k BS on multiple characters (so they would have gotten me to spend over 100k BS) to have KO on their items that I probably wouldn't spend 30k to put other things on their items (for instance I don't put dispel on everyone's weapons).

[compact tinsel]

I feel like attuned discount at 50% would be the sweet spot

[tawny pivot]

Man, y'all have been having way too much fun in here today while I wasn't looking.

[tawny pivot]

In the ultimate irony, dropping Gemstones from anything capped would reduce silver generation because people would hunt less rich creatures and it would increase silver drain because then there would be more Gemstones in need of upgrading.

[lavish geyser]

Almost certainly, yes. It would lead to short term gains, but with a playerbase this small, that actually gets a little bit risky. Because now once you've bought into good gear, what's the strategy moving forward? Some people might gear up extra characters, many people may not. In larger markets (Path of Exile for example), massively slashing prices is a proven strategy, but it would be a lot fuzzier here looking beyond a single event cycle. Having said that, there are absolutely some outlier services that should come way down in price (AsG change for example).

[rich imp]

There is still hope for digging! :hoot:

The problem seems to be that everything has been monetized (is that the right term?). Why not free up something or a few things and sell for silvers to save the game? I still think a good answer is one currency.

[lethal bolt]

Thank god cause I never got anything cool before that.

[safe parcel]

Profile Reset Certificate... yet another potential auction item

[obsidian lagoon]

Like it or not, monetizing things pays the bills.

[rich imp]

Yeah but does everything have to be monetized? I would suspect not. I was thinking about it earlier. I pay $60 a month in subscriptions and have to still buy spell up pills.

[rich imp]

https://tenor.com/view/thor-are-you-mocking-me-chris-hemsworth-inifnity-war-avengers-gif-11778832

[obsidian lagoon]

People buy those?

But yes that’s how corporate America works.

Or wherever stillfront is.

[tacit hinge]

I agree with this and go further suggesting a scaling attuned discount. The newer gear could start out with the current attunement discount, and go from there up to 75 % discount. It's kind of funny I have a ton of attuned gear from the transfer over that I could buy upgrades for if the discount was right. Obviously the upgrade/unlock etc, would be attuned too, I would be more likely to spend additional money if that discount was 50-75%.

Maybe there are items in HESS that have extremely low sales, try discounting the attunements? :🤷:

[lethal bolt]

Haha. No! I really didn’t have anything cool before they monetized things. So that was a nice surprise coming back as an adult with more money than time!

[lethal bolt]

Like I think my crown jewel purchase before I left was a 7x plain falchion someone was selling for CHEEEAP because we all though breakage was coming into the game (cause they had introduced str/durability on items and this item was really weak)

[spark geyser]

same, except for me it was some 7x double leather

[compact tinsel]

Bear with me on this - going to post some of the perspectives from ChatGPT after ingesting a lot of the information we know so far of the changes into it.
Slowmode is going to make this painful - 2 copy/pastas incoming:

Wyrom’s changes are very likely good for the GemStone IV economy and, on balance, better for the game — but with predictable short-term pain concentrated among a small, very visible group.

Below is the long, reasoned answer, grounded in everything input:
-------------------
1. From an economic standpoint: these changes are sound
From a pure MMO economy lens, Wyrom is fixing the right problem.
The real issue (as established)
Silver stock: large but finite (≈50–60B active)
Silver flow: extremely high and accelerating (≈10B/month)
Silver velocity: high (players spend it)
Silver sinks: working, but cannot scale fast enough
This combination inevitably leads to:
Declining purchasing power
Runaway top-end bidding
Silver becoming a formality rather than a decision
Wyrom’s approach—reduce top-end generation, normalize systems, add diminishing returns—is exactly what real and virtual economies do when currency issuance outruns value.
From a systems perspective: this is the correct intervention.

-------------------
2. Will the economy be “better”? Yes — in measurable ways
If implemented as described, the silver economy should improve along these axes:

✅ Silver retains meaning
Silver remains something you decide to spend
Not something you casually replace overnight
Especially important for auctions and events

✅ Prices stabilize instead of endlessly inflating
Less fresh silver chasing the same rare goods
Fewer extreme bid escalations
Better price discovery over time

✅ Design space reopens
Once generation is stable, staff can:
Add new silver sinks
Price things reasonably
Introduce “nice things” without moving goalposts

✅ The median player experience is protected
0–10M earners see minimal change
Casual and mid-tier players aren’t priced out as quickly
Silver-based rewards remain attainable
In short: the economy becomes more sustainable and more legible.

-------------------
3. Will the game itself be better? Mostly yes — with caveats
Where the game gets better

🟢 Long-term health
Fewer emergency economic corrections later
Less need for extreme silver sinks
More confidence in adding content tied to silver

🟢 Fairness across the population
Top 5% no longer define prices by sheer issuance power
Majority of players have a more relevant currency

🟢 Event and auction design improves
Silvers at events mean something again
EG / CLAIM pricing signals are clearer
Auctions remain exciting instead of feeling predetermined

🔴 Where the game may feel worse (temporarily)
High-end grinders feel constrained
Diminishing returns feel bad if you’re used to linear output
Optimization paths disappear
“I used to do X and now I can’t” is a real feeling

🔴 Forum sentiment skews negative
The most affected players are:
Highly engaged
Highly vocal
Overrepresented in discussion spaces
This creates the illusion that:
“Everyone hates this”
Even if most players are unaffected or quietly benefit.

----------------
4. Is there real risk? Yes — but it’s manageable
Real risks
Over-tightening the ceiling too much, too fast
Making high-end play feel unrewarding
Undermining certain playstyles if tuning overshoots
Why this risk is mitigated
Wyrom explicitly plans:
Monitoring
Iteration
Post-launch tuning
Hard caps are being replaced, not reinforced
Floor protection is a stated goal, not an afterthought
This is not a “flip the switch and disappear” change.

----------------
5. The alternative would be worse
It’s important to compare this not to a perfect world, but to doing nothing.
If no changes were made:
Monthly generation continues at ~10B
Silver purchasing power continues to erode
Auctions escalate further
New players feel increasingly excluded
Eventually, far more drastic measures would be required
Wyrom is choosing controlled correction now over panic correction later.

----------------
6. Final verdict
Will it be good for the economy?
Yes. Strongly.
It stabilizes purchasing power, preserves silver’s relevance, and aligns generation with sustainable sinks.
Will it be good for the game?
Yes, overall — especially long-term.
The game becomes healthier, more expandable, and fairer for the majority, even if a small group experiences short-term frustration.
Who benefits most?
Mid-tier and casual players
Event participants
Auction bidders without infinite wallets
Future content designers
Who loses the most?
Extreme optimizers at the top of the curve
Players whose enjoyment depends on unchecked throughput
That trade-off is intentional, transparent, and economically justified.

But based on the evidence assembled:
Wyrom is steering the game away from a slow economic failure and toward sustainability.

[obsidian lagoon]

I mean, also chatGPT

In “Strawberry” there are 2 r’s."```

[obsidian lagoon]

Yeah, the answer varies between 1-3. No idea why that question trips it up so much.

[winged valve]

forum engagement skews negative.

Boy howdy does it ever.

The alternative would be worse

I think the negativity pushes the reaction away from this. Yes. Doing nothing can feel bad. Loss of privilege always feels like an attack even if it isn’t.

But not doing something forces returning players or casual players to never be the target audience of the cool stuff in game. And yes we should all be able to get there.

[compact estuary]

it's because it uses tokens instead of characters

[inland zephyr]

If you ask model A "what would model b say if i asked..." (big "one of us tells the truth one of us lies" energy) it almost always says "model b would say this which is wrong, the real answer is X" because that makes it hone in specifically on the the discussions about how wrong model b was, at least for this meme/well-covered word that it has indexed all these conversations on previously. But, it just makes it seem like it's being extra catty so it's funnier.

If we make sure the models all hate each other maybe they will spend more time fighting amongst themselves before they come for us.

[winged valve]

And model temperature is what induces variance. Higher model temperature induces variance in responses so it doesn’t actually always end up with the same response to the same input. Which is why you get seemingly random answers to questions about strawberries.

It doesn’t think remember, it’s just a statistical guess machine. So why is that useful? Because it can offer some insight and amalgamations of data that wouldn’t otherwise be apparent to us. And it does it in a rather eloquent way because of how a sentence structure and training data work.

So basically, there’s a statistical likelihood that the answer is meaningful. Which is why it agrees that changing the economy is good for the game. Because there’s enough of a correlation of statistical data points with other economic data in the training data that caused the tokens to match.

What I find most interesting is if we consider a net compared to actual brain function, they are strikingly similar.

And because of that, I think that there are too many silvers, and we should decrease the amount of silver input into the game. (almost went off topic there… whew…)

[spiral scaffold]

The points look valid, but I don't see any of this helping with the big ticket auctions.

People with billions now will still have billions after the change, and auctions will still vibe that way for a long, long time. I have no skin in that game today, and I will likely have less skin in that game after the change because A) it will be harder for me to catch up and B) they'll still be pulling away by whatever new speed limit the treadmill is set at.

It's kind of a big whatever. My hope is that it does ultimately result in new silver sinks that the rest of the game can latch onto, but... hope is never a plan.

[compact tinsel]

But with the change - if your speed limit on the treadmill was 6, and theirs was 12 previously...

Yours will still be 6 and theirs will be 8. It'll slow down how quickly they can pull away.

In reality, anyone who's gonig to put more resources into the game ($) will end up getting more resources out of it. That's just the way the game is kind of propped up. Especially when you factor in profession services, gemstones, etc...

The only way to prevent that is t completely shut down bartering/trading/secondary market... which would feel horrific and game ending. (It would be adjacent to ending MA'ing, which folks use to consolidate resource gains from multiple accounts)

[spiral scaffold]

The actuality is my speed limit might stay at 6, and they may drop to 8... but it's REALLY more like my 6 vs. their 8x10.

I don't think we need to get in the weeds about Multi-Accounting, though.

[compact tinsel]

Yes, agreed.... but that scenario is also better than their 12x10 😉

[cold inlet]

I am bad at MA, my silver earnings do not scale that linearly 😭

[torpid tide]

Yeah. I think people give too much credit to MA. There are a ton of us that don’t even soft cap. Not everyone wants to make their entertainment a job!

[spiral scaffold]

And no one is stopping anyone from doing it.

[cold inlet]

My 9x squad earns closer to 2x total

[compact tinsel]

For me, it's like playing old school Baldur's Gate or Dragon Age ---- most fun part of those games to me was building out your party and creating a team. Trying different characters/profession combos together, etc....
My little 5-6 man crew is my Team.

The loot, gems, and resources are a nice side hustle/benefit --- okay, that and it all helps feed my beast (Kontii)

[pale ether]

I get that perspective, I had a lot of fun leveling Daena and the twins together with their hunting routine and trying different disablers and setups.

[harsh flame]

Create a new private property system that's better than what's available now (mobile castles, flying islands, portal pocket dimensions, etc.) that players can purchase for a huge sum of silver, and then have to pay monthly silver upkeep to maintain.

Let us hire NPC crew for OSA ships, with a monthly salary upkeep.

Let us hire NPC mercenaries that have unique abilities to hunt and carry stuff for us. With a high salary.

Add a collection box in every supernode that increases mana/spirit/hp regen and exp absorption for an hour upon payment of a hefty fee for the individual.

[fickle jacinth]

This is the real issue. Limiting new silver generation only hurts anyone trying to get into the top tier without actually draining any of the billions a handful of players currently have.

We need real silver sinks that people will dump billions into because it's worth it. Selling orbs or RoL entries for silvers would probably move the needle quite a bit. Selling gemstones from the artificer for huge sums or adding a gambling mechanic to gemstones for silvers either selling gemstones or rerolling properties.

[wet forge]

I know I mentioned this before, but keep in mind, this is a silver distribution change. This isn't a silver sink change. We have done plenty of silver sinks over the last few years. We have to first control the output before we can create new ways to spend silver. It's going to require quite a bit of monitoring, and there will likely be things we don't get right at first. Getting caught up in what needs to happen to help the wealth out there doesn't really come down to this.

[obsidian lagoon]

Hopefully you built some better monitoring tools, because I honestly think you're vastly undercounting given the methods you've divulged. I also accept there might be ones you haven't and are keeping the real numbers closer to the chest.

[inland zephyr]

It does kinda sound nutty there's like no real way to count silvers unless someone logs in like... there has to be a way to data warehouse this stuff. But i think everyone kinda collectively had this sideeye of the methods apparently required at one of the last silver auctions and what actually showed up ended up being pretty close to the best guess leading up to it.

[wet forge]

There is, and we have ways to get around big numbers right now. Unfortunately, our forefathers of Elanthia didn't start us on the right path here. We have tools to see a lot of it now. But there is no way to know for sure what's lurking on some older accounts or how much was out there before our tools. Every time I think we have it pretty close, some old money shows up to a crazy degree. There was also a lot of ways to hide silver back in the day.

We see what's generated, what's spent, and what might be left each month, that's why I mentioned years ago the game does an okay job at removing mundane silver to a degree that didn't feel harmful, but that was at the 3bil to 5bil mark. We doubled that since.

There were some crazy projects being done where people overspent on WPS for awhile, but that dried up this year.

My comment on everyone logging in with all their wealth was more something fun to give a gamewide perk vs trying to track the silvers. And just having a crazy high blip on our DAU for that time.

[lethal bolt]

I've been doing this a lot since the silver change announcement! I used to just let them sit there!

You come out of hiding.
You gather the remaining 429 coins.
>hid```

Probably added about...30-50k extra to the world. And soon it will have the purchase power of 3m-5m present silvers!

[lethal bolt]

When you guys do a name purge don't you also do a bank account purge??

[obsidian lagoon]

So you're the problem.

[compact tinsel]

#1446983942644301936 message

@pale ether - figure this is a better spot. Care to expand on that?

[lethal bolt]

Yeah - is he "underestimating"? Or is that just what his tool has told him as he has also acknowledged the limitations of said tool?

[compact tinsel]

I was hoping Ruse did the math on everything that was exchanging hands and had some insights to share that were concrete!

My gut tells me just more of it is exchanging hands than normal, since silvers seem to be more valuable with the auction lined up.

[pale ether]

I didn't spend to much time on it, but about 14 billion advertised not counting duplications.

Then just making a guess that the amount being advertised is not representative of the total available

[compact estuary]

What percentage of all silvers do you suspect that is?

[pale ether]

I know Wyrom mentioned the lack of good tools to accurately count silvers so I worded my comment poorly in hindsight as I'm sure he is not underestimating and just stating what he can observe to the best of staff's ability.

[tawny pivot]

It kind of depends on the definition of "in circulation" too.

[tacit hinge]

Can we blame Warden? 30 years later?

[barren berry]

I am optimistic but maybe 10%. Edit: It depends on the numbers being provided. If since the pool loot has boomed to 10b/month from 5b/month. That means there has been an excess generation without excess drains of like 180b. That assumes all previous drain efforts were 100% sucessful which...the verbiage being used makes it sound like it was not.

[alpine dove]

My anecdotes and inputs are only going to be tangentially relevant but I would like to provide my perspective on lower levels moneys. I have no character over level 50.

I can hunt maybe a few million a month. I can make more than that wildly underselling low level services. I can't make past T1 on most things obviously.

The majority of advice I've gotten is don't waste money crafting, or getting my own services or event upgrades, but to buy someone's leftovers. This however removes my ability to see incremental upgrades to my equipment.

Rambling aside, it would be a nice quality of life improvement if I could more easily work on my own stuff to a higher degree. Like handing to T5 something but have it atunned to characters.

Just some way outside of the silver grind to improve my characters.

[compact estuary]

Technically, it depends on the definition of all the words!

https://tenor.com/view/barbie-ryan-gosling-glasses-margot-robbie-handsome-gif-13665100648649288173

[spiral scaffold]

Scrap loot cap. Implement a "pristine silver" system. Silver gained from loot is "pristine" until it changes hands. Then have auctions/services that only use pristine silver. We all start over. Chaos reigns.

[compact tinsel]

Would player to player transactions just be on a trade system then?

[spiral scaffold]

Yep

[compact tinsel]

🤔

[spiral scaffold]

And not every auction/service would HAVE to require pristine silver.

Group hunting might get weird, but suppose folks can take turns looting. Or some kind of timer to allow sharing X amount of time after generation

[full zenith]

Aren't your running around mugging silvers... pristine feels like a stretch here sir

[spiral scaffold]

Mugged silver wouldn't be pristine.

[pale ether]

Not sure why mugging was ever allowed honestly. Sorry rogues

[compact estuary]

It was a different time!

[spiral scaffold]

I mean, tbf, its current implementation is a bit borked.

I like my knees where they currently reside, though.

[compact estuary]

How so?

[full zenith]

[Silver Cleanliness Check result: 95 (Open d100: 29)]
As you rummage through the creatures belonging you notice that the exploded bone fragments have pierced the creatures coin pouch. The silvers are no longer pristine.

[grave bison]

Mug works perfectly fine!

[spiral scaffold]

I dunno... let's implement a skill that finally looks something like pickpocketing that doesn't actually require pickpocket ranks with no discernible difference between knowing 1 rank of Mug or 5. Ship it.

[compact estuary]

…you make a compelling point

[spiral scaffold]

I will be in witness protection. Been fun y'all

[grave bison]

I'm reporting you both for being off topic.

[tardy ore]

We're gonna have to sit down and have a long talk, sir.

[full zenith]

Jaired hit 100m exp and became the Leafiara of rogues and is trying to nerf his profession. Hate to see it. 😆

[tawny pivot]

This is how you all scare me out of buying MK Mug if it randomly shows up at an auction (whether next week or otherwise).

[tardy ore]

I mean it is going to lose a fair amount of it's usefulness with loot cap dropping (outside of finding gemstones).

[lethal bolt]

idk - Still love it for quick attacks and looting heirloom bounties!

[tardy ore]

It still definitely has it's uses.

[pale ether]

Think the issue is that there is no difference between mug rank 1 and mug rank 5. Same success.

Also it doesn't require any pickpocketing skill to work.

So get mug rank 1 and immediately start earning more silvers compared to someone that doesn't have it period.

[inland zephyr]

Not like this is a secret. I mean maybe it is due to GM siloing but making it actually care about pick pocket ranks at least was on Naijins todo list with the resource skill / pp flag / PvE pickpocketing updates that were planned. The rank training mattering is pretty par for the course for cman skills now.

[compact estuary]

Are you sure it doesn't affect the SMR equation?

[inland zephyr]

It does maybe, at least ranks I don’t know if pp even does, it just doesn’t matter.

You probably hit it with a disable first either sweep/kneebash/subdue. you have + a million bonus and afaik it’s just a binary you hit or don’t so doesn’t matter to mug harder than 101

[compact estuary]

<rank 1>
[SMR result: 125 (Open d100: 11, Bonus: 21)]
<rank 5>
[SMR result: 176 (Open d100: 51, Bonus: 13)]

[tawny pivot]

It does affect the SMR equation. It's just that that's not terribly relevant in most situations.

[compact estuary]

(has to leave now for unrelated reasons)

[inland zephyr]

The expected 20 or so. So yeah ranks thing is just how all SMR works. The PP thing I think is a bug/oversight.

But also it kinda doesn’t matter. PP is basically free (literally as cheap as a skill can get) and required for covert farts so you probably want to train it anyway. Unless you just mean to nerf MK people which lol yes. Do that. Break them.

[grave bison]

So you're saying I should spend even less on simucoins because they just nerf the things I buy anyway

[obsidian lagoon]

The expectation that something once purchased will never ever be changed/impacted by game changes has held back so much development over the years in GS.

[compact estuary]

Is that what you’re saying, FFNG!?

[tardy ore]

AFAIK, pickpocketing increases the chance to hit when MUGging from the open, but otherwise yes... it doesn't really do much.

[tawny pivot]

#mechanics message

If in doubt, don't purchase anything at any pay event. What your buy is only limited to the benefits immediate at that moment (minus any bugs). If mechanics change, they're subject to POLICY.```
This is an enormous part of why I never attune anything even though I also almost never sell anything that I've been using. Flexibility is important in a world that can see massive change at any moment.

(As far as I can tell, the quote works as a standalone, but in case anyone was wondering about the specific context... it was around about whether people's purchased Minor Elemental spellbook enhancives would be able to convert to Minor Mental if bards themselves moved from Minor Elemental to Minor Mental--or, if they *couldn't* convert, then what might or might not happen compensation-wise.)

[safe flume]

I think the only prudent way to address the exponential silver harvesting is to methodically look at the changes that lead to it, and undo/address those.

[winged valve]

You said covert farts… excellent lol

[obsidian lagoon]

I know that's been said, and I appreciate the search, but some people seem to have selective amnesia around that concept.

[wet vector]

Im not buying anything in the auction. I have a feeling silvers will go back to 20 bucks, like it's 1999 all over again. With the popularity of the game, the latest technologies and the growing culture of youth from all the new players, hell, it might even hit 30 like its 1994.

[torpid tide]

Man now think about inflation and consider the implications of that joke.

[sharp spear]

Just curious, how many silvers came from platinum reintegration?

[wet forge]

6 silver.

[daring narwhal]

ok legit, when Amerek typed this in the other thread a sec ago, i was going to type "6." and i'm not even joking

[wet forge]

We have the numbers, let me see if I can find them.

[wet forge]

[daring narwhal]

is this like when humanity invented the bow and arrow? or is 6 objectively the funniest number?

[wet forge]

It is time for greatness.

[sharp spear]

1 silver for each plat player, good enough for me

[snow lodge]

I leave this chat for a little bit and it becomes a nerf mug conversation. I doubt mug is what the problem is here. Rogues needed anything we could take and mug is good for us. I'm fine if we want to require PP and maybe more ranks though. But I don't see a reason to nerf it.

[zenith bane]

"the skill that lets me get double loot is fine, actually" is not a surprising take from the profession with the skill tbh

[lethal bolt]

Admit it. You just want GTK to become another Nidalstone

[zenith bane]

GTK shouldn't even be a gemstone, having a gemstone that only one class can use (or whales) is absurd

[lethal bolt]

I don't know that I would say it is absurd. But hopefully it is the first of profession specific gemstones to give profession abilities a little more oompf

or they axe it and put it for sale via ASC points

[spiral scaffold]

It should be built into Mug when you hit Rank 5.

Creating 'items' that should just be Feats/Cmans/Etc is a long running Gemstone tradition.

[lethal bolt]

Well it seems like it is easier for GMs to create items to do things than change/add skills (for right or wrong I'm just used to working within the system we have rather than advocating for big changes)

[spiral scaffold]

🤷

[snow lodge]

I mean there aren't many items out there in general that add specific benefits for rogues in general. It's nice to actually have one. The picking bracer that should of been a big rogue benefit became more of a benefit for other professions.

[spiral scaffold]

Like I have one of the 'jet packs'. It's great. That should just be Leap Attack, though. It's doing what Leap Attack should always have been doing.

[lethal bolt]

Doesn't that jet pack let you subdue giants without sweep?

[spiral scaffold]

It basically lets you go +1 Height vs. Current Target. So yes, you can Subdue/Hit Eyes/Etc

The real benefit is the + to Mandalorian Aura

Absolutely incredible script, though. As an ambusher I'm not kidding... literally the best. Hope they have one at the auction.

[lethal bolt]

Yeah - now just imagine if everyone with leap attack could have that advantage? Kinda crazy I think. But perhaps I'm just stuck in the MUD

[spiral scaffold]

We're getting super off topic here, but like... is it crazy, though? Leap Attack requires ranks in Acrobatic Leap. A not-insignificant investment. How is a CMAN that makes guy go UP outrageously different than the plethora of CMANs that make target go down?

It already makes 'guy go up', it just does it as an unaimed attack vs. the... five or six flying creatures in this game. So you can stab something flying in the sky, but you can't subdue something with the same skill? That's too much of a... reach?

[cold inlet]

The interactivity with other scrips is pretty impressive (at least by documentation, haven't seen any of it in person)

[restive raft]

gravity, for the first part.

I completely agree that "if you can go up to swing a sword you should be able to go up to do anything else, too."

[torpid tide]

I'm not sure what +1 height is suppose to mean. I think Wyrom even said that's what it does when it was initially released. But it let's you target the head of anything. 30+ foot tall Gigas? No problem. That might be a bit much for leap attack.

[restive raft]

Greater Constructs are out of reach, but I can smack a griffin....sense does not apply

[vocal moat]

Constructs are obviously space elevators

[inland zephyr]

If i was wyrom i would immediately logon to update the script to make the rocket fire and it send you flying over the constructs head missing entirely. like sorry it's not calibrated for things that are just tall not airborne.

[wet forge]

The +1 height comment just means it always matches the creature and goes +1 (foot) higher so there is no issue with the target. Some stuff, even like height, runs into an issue when I was testing it.

As for the itemization comments, a lot of times, we also just want to make something special. We could make things the default in the base system mechanics, but I also think the itemization is what keeps GS interesting.

[zenith bane]

That's @static path

[static path]

Heck yeah Duffield GOAT band/singer

[pale ether]

#1446966828239949834 message

It's closer Wyrom.

[tawny pivot]

You know an auction and/or a sweeping economic change are right around the corner when it’s a fresh new month of loot cap and the loot still sucks because people are farming hard!

[nova sun]

Y'all take this stuff too seriously. 😛

[tawny pivot]

Never!

[grave bison]

Tens of thousands of dollars worth of silvers has exchanged hands for this auction. It's kind of serious.

[sour drift]

And the rich get richer. Same as it ever was.

[lethal bolt]

Well - to be fair - the rich are supposed to be getting POORER from this auction! But they will have valuable memories and a 0.5% boost to efficiency. Except Maylan - who we will never hear from again because she has her own plot of farmland to work.

[cinder trout]

Wait, so is the silver crunch today or starts on Monday?

[lethal bolt]

Your silvers were attuned as well?

[tardy ore]

No. He spent them on gemstones =p

[lethal bolt]

Oh! Oh. I guess I thought he meant like...opening slots/rerolling and whatnot.

[tardy ore]

Nah, he dropped a lot of silver on some really good gems when they first came out.

[odd badger]

gemstones got most of my silvers last year 😂 I'd probably have ~200 gold.. ofc, with that 50m last gemstone unlock I feel like it's better if I save up for another few months.. guess it depends on how much this affects silvers and how difficult it is to unlock that last slot

[abstract holly]

Are there any updates on what loot changes are planned and/or when they are coming?

[pale ether]

And gemstones are dirt cheap and getting cheaper.

[lethal bolt]

Not cheap enough!

[wet forge]

Plan is soon after. We'll have some proper announcements when it's all going down. We have some other stuff we're bundling with the silver changes. Definitely this month.

[cinder trout]

How about we "encourage" healthy gaming....
8am-4pm: silver spigot is 60% of current
4pm-10pm: silver spigot is 80% of current
10pm-8am: silver spigot is 20% of current

[spiral scaffold]

Lol Europe get rekd

[cinder trout]

No one cares about them!

[lethal bolt]

when would 100% of current be???!

[cinder trout]

On your Birthday you get 150% of current, you can only reset your birthday once per 360 days

[barren berry]

Sorry kids! No party today for Dad's birthday, he's got SILVERS to farm.

[inland zephyr]

Honestly one of the biggest power moves I’ve seen is well before I met my wife my father in law told them he’d make reservations for his birthday meal. And he did. Then day of he was just like “the reservation is for 3. Have a nice time” (it was a family of 4) and walked back inside.

[torpid tide]

Man I'm doing this this year.

[tawny pivot]

Come on [Auchand personal project Gemstone group loot changes](#1437571971079606352 message)!

[shy raft]

Rohese doesnt hit loot cap its fine

[tardy ore]

I mean it kind of screws anyone who doesn't work a first shift or has non-traditional gaming hours.

I'd be more on-board for a decreased loot % after a certain number of hours playing. So if you're hunting 12 hours a day, by hour 12, you're getting like 40% loot.

[barren berry]

That punishes people hunting poor thing even more who are just trying to grind out xp. If they removed loot pressure...maybe.

[grave bison]

You should have to play for 12 hours before you start receiving any loot.

[safe parcel]

as long as we're talking eastern time zone

[safe parcel]

I read someone mention this could be a partial silver production solution as well. If every member of a party doesn't have to search 2000 creatures individually, it could cut down on loot production organically.

[nova sun]

I will admit, I thought I was going to get to it pretty quickly that week.

And then... everything everywhere all at once happened.

Not the movie, just stuff.

[safe parcel]

Tis the season friend. 🍻

[tacit hinge]

Isn't that supposed to be the other mask, which make us look younger.

Hold up I have one

I'll sell it to you for 100 gold coin. Oh wait its attuned:O sorry I'll be the youngest on stairs

[snow lodge]

Was there any word on if there will be a pile to pull an RPA orb for silvers?

[winged valve]

Wyrom said no pretty early on IIRC

[snow lodge]

gotcha so just an auction and no shinnanigan type stuff. Sorry I haven't been following too closely

[shy raft]

For posterity, there was in fact a sort-of RPA at the end.. he put up a violet orb as the last item (there was a little more to it I think, more rubs? etc) and he said if the bid got up to 100k gold, that everyone in the room would get a 4x RPA. @wheat pasture graciously made it so

[inland zephyr]

It was a 3 rub orb. So adding the room one omrii got 4 rpas basically for sticker price and pad another 40m or whatever for the room lol

[tawny pivot]

Always bring every character to any auction or Mania just in case. This is the way. I think we're at least 50-50 on whether saying there won't be RPAs at an auction actually means there won't be RPAs at that auction.

Or, to put it more charitably, no RPAs in planning doesn't mean no RPAs in practice!

[compact tinsel]

To be fair - this was NOT a guaranteed RPA for everyone. So I dont think they could have really stated there WOULD be one

[tawny pivot]

Yeah, that's a good point.

[pale ether]

Wyrom needs to come in with the silver changes tonight to cause maximum chaos tomorrow

[tawny pivot]

If I were Wyrom, I think I'd try to have some very twisted fun tomorrow by doing the same thing, but at 500k, and seeing if people are willing to collectively pool to do it. Dashing out of the room if they have to!

I had most of that typed before Ruse invented a vastly more evil idea. 😂

[wheat pasture]

Yes, please, detail the silver changes before I make interesting choices tomorrow. 😂

[torpid tide]

It would have to be people with unexchange silver cause you can't trade gold!

[humble ferry]

Plot twist: the violet orb auction switches the currency from gold to ghoul nails.

[wet vector]

Wyrom, mind adding Sylinaar's services to both DRs and RW so we can change our enhancives and play with new weapons throughout the year? That's my only post auction musing, thanks

[pale ether]

How does the heal room empath spirit servant runestone work?

[cold inlet]

You cast 1125 at the spirt, I believe

#1447361071147909262 message

[lusty marten]

We should all push this. Add thumbs up or down if its something you would use to show support.

[obsidian lagoon]

I think everyone who uses Sulinaar has been asking for it for years now.

[sharp spear]

No. Everyone should just wait 12 months until Ebon to do this /s

[tardy ore]

That would be such a crazy good QoL update.

[winged valve]

If you agree: give Nucky’s post a thumbs up!

[grave bison]

It makes sense to pair Sylinar with DR as that is where the other enhancive certificates are found. Buy a nugget, modify the nugget item properties.

[cinder trout]

I assume they want Sylinar at EG so that it can make some Q4 $$$ but with all the new EG scripts thats probably a problem of the past, fluff-event no more....

[shy raft]

let us reroll enhancives and there go all your silver problems

[zenith bane]

Gemstones has taught me I have no interest in engaging with even more RNG based systems

[scenic flower]

||Wouldn't adding Sylinar to DR basically put fusion back on the menu?|| || Since it was originally moved to force a|| ||little ||potential|| deprecation|| ||between service offerings for orb degradation for fusion orb v7, or whatever we're on?||
||Fine, I'll spoiler everything Nisugi||

[torpid tide]

Sylinar is the ||Fusion Shaman||!?!?!? Spoilers bro

[scenic flower]

You know what? Fine, haphazardly spoilered

[sharp spear]

I think the game should focus on things that are fun. Waiting 3 months can be fun. Waiting 12 months is just a pain.

[lethal bolt]

You know what was NOT fun? Having to click every one of Whirlin's silly spoiler tags and being left with what was behind them.

[scenic flower]

I blame ||Nisugi||

[barren cloak]

are there any changes to loot pressure planned?

[obsidian lagoon]

Wasn't in the SOE, but the SOE was pretty light on actual detail.

[grave bison]

Fusion should come back on the menu. It should also come back with accessories that are expensive to unlock slots on.

OTS 1 slot (head, ear, earrings, neck, wrist, finger, ankle).

• Unlock slot 2 - 5m
• Unlock slot 3 - 25m
• Unlock slot 4 - 50m

Change the create-an-orb cost so it scales by bonus. The higher the bonus, the higher the cost!

[lethal bolt]

Woah woah woah. Those are clearly pre silver change prices. Please correct.

[scenic flower]

There's also no justification of 'should' in that statement or evaluation of impacts to other services such as enhancive worn location changes, locus charging, etc. While ignoring it's generally event currency versus silvers

[grave bison]

So you're saying because they sell those services for simucoins we can never have them for silvers.

[scenic flower]

Please read what I have written

[grave bison]

I would rather put words in your mouth!

[sharp spear]

Ideally, everything that can be bought with simucoins should be attainable via in game means. IMHO

[solar lava]

You'll never convince a company to pull money out of their own pocket. It makes more sense for them to create problems then sell the fix. Can't blame them

[grave bison]

Why not both? Accessories and unlocks for simucoins. Orbs for silvers.

[sharp spear]

I didn't say it should be easy, I just said it should be possible.

[stark kindle]

There was a time when I felt this was the case. My in-game earnings were enough to buy me access to all the simucoin content and I could convert silver into entries, do the activities and earn my simucoin event progress. I actually think making silvers more scarce helps to reinvigorate this concept since the current values are not compatible with player organized entry sales.

Of course this only works if people actually need silvers for something.

[lethal bolt]

I wonder if they argue that IS possible. Through legendary drops and silver auctions and silver raffles

[obsidian lagoon]

It is as long as there is a fungible medium of exchange like silver.

[stark kindle]

And there were the times when simucoin event (I think only DR) entries were sold for actual silvers in limited windows.

[obsidian lagoon]

Every pay event for the last 2 or 3 years has had event boxes for sale.

[stark kindle]

So technically you can gradually earn event currency, but the gradual nature is extreme.

[obsidian lagoon]

The gradual nature of almost everything in GS is extreme fwiw.

I've been WPSing armor for like 6 years now.

[sharp spear]

Bloodscrip and simucoin itsm, or the most part are off limits, currently

[rich imp]

I think a couple people mentioned potential negative side effects from the changes. I was wondering if lock mastery training requirements will be looked at with regards to the decrease in future boxes.

[harsh flame]

So if the hard cap is removed, does that mean that if we experiment enough, we'll be able to figure out a way to game the system and farm even more silver than before? 🤤

[torpid tide]

Seems like a good way to find all the loopholes and squash em!

[harsh flame]

definitely (only after taking advantage of them to get rich first though)

[obsidian lagoon]

I was thinking that, but I imagine the soft cap is gonna scale pretty hard.

[tawny pivot]

Incoming bard-only MA armies to purify all the gems ever?

[grave bison]

Ranger armies to skin.

[tawny pivot]

The 200 Blessings +16% skin value dream. Work those enhancives ans Ascension!

[torpid tide]

So I hear there's going to be experience changes

[tardy ore]

Glad Nisugi was able to decipher my cryptic words.

[pale ether]

All "ups" exp changes

Which could mean that Wyrom is just going to explain everything in all caps, but its really just nerfs.

[tardy ore]

While I'm not hopeful about the silver changes, I'm less not-hopeful about the exp changes.

[odd badger]

EVERYONE IS MOVING TO F2P EXP ABSORPTION. YOU MAKE 5 SILVERS PER KILL 🤣

[tardy ore]

You delete that right now.

[barren berry]

We are increasing post cap XP...requirements by 50%! We heard you like numbers go up! So 3750 per TP and 75k per ASC!

[pale ether]

Maybe they're raising the level cap?!

[obsidian lagoon]

That would require website changes, we know how that goes. (Did they ever get paladin skills fixed?)

[barren berry]

No. Ask me how I know.

[tardy ore]

Stop putting these things out into the world!

[obsidian lagoon]

Ok, can't put gifs in threads, this discussion is terrible now.

[barren berry]

Experience earning will be reduced by 50% but we will sell 3-day 50% boosts for experience to use with silvers. (this is still a net nerf by the way!)

[barren berry]

Unlimited unattuned blue RPA orbs for sale for silvers with a twist! 50% chance to give you the RPA 50% chance to apply crushing death sting that is unsalveable!. You wanted unlimited orbs! Do you feel lucky?? EXP and gambling all in one.

[tardy ore]

Someone take away his posting ability!

[torpid tide]

When slowmode isn't slow enough

[compact estuary]

https://tenor.com/view/write-it-down-take-notes-master-at-work-gif-15660117309056202885

[barren berry]

To be fair I could have said, once you get to Tdest 1, its all LTE from there on out. To get Tdest 2-10.

[barren berry]

What do you want from me? I said I could have said it. I kept my mouth shut this time. I am trying! Edit: Just think if they did do that Nyxus could sell a new kind of timepiece to hasten the LTE absorb for the DR Annex. Hmm. Profits.

[sharp spear]

Exp and RNG do not belong together

[barren berry]

You're right. Would be neat if XP was instant and was inside of something...Hmmm...I think like a phylactery...we have those right? Kill the mob collect their XP and loot from a phylactery. Thats it.

[full zenith]

Ban him

[tawny pivot]

We've found the player who likes Hive rocks!

[barren berry]

Ooh. So XP would be inside hive rocks? That is a good idea.

[odd badger]

I like hive rocks. It's one of the things that keeps people out of the hive 😂

[tawny pivot]

Went to the Hive one time last month in desperation becaue the Hinterwilds weren't giving up the goods Gemstone-wise. Never again. A whole team of wyrmslaying, sybilslaying adventurers standing around at a table for ten minutes breaking open hundreds of rocks ruins every mental image and every sense of fantasy I enjoy. 🤣

[odd badger]

My hunts before I hit any kind of loot cap: ~8 minutes of hunting. ~12 minutes of post hunting dealing with rocks, boxes, etc.

[harsh flame]

This is why we need to be able to hire retainers, maids, butlers, and etc. to do the tedious stuff for us.

[cold inlet]

Hive rocks are excellent

[barren berry]

So in conclusion. Hunting monsters and breaking rocks is boring and not engaging.IE not an experience. But a cup of amazing coffee in a pretty part of elanthia is an experience. Therefore now and forever killing monsters should only be what pays the bills and drinking excellent coffee and eating food in randomly placed areas that get set every hour is where you can get your experience(s). Interesting.

[scenic flower]

Have you tried hurling the rocks?

(doubt they work like that... but would be cool, huh?)

[torpid tide]

Some alchemy potion you can apply to the rocks that make them bombs with a chance to destroy the gem or split ||(duplicate)|| the gem on impact!

[nova sun]

I agree. That's why Hive gems now only have a 50% chance to spawn into porous chunks of rock. The rest of the time, they will drop as normal.

[tawny pivot]

That’s a very exciting change!

[tardy ore]

Wait whaaaaaa
::checks calendar to see if it's April::

[odd badger]

It didn't carry any silver.
It had some bright bluerock on it!
It had nothing else of value.

[torpid tide]

I had to check the date. It's not April first. And now I saw Riend had the same thought.

[tawny pivot]

I’m counting this as the first of the silver changes revealed.

[pale ether]

Lol, no way. It's positive

[barren berry]

So party in hive for the remainder of 2026?

[winged valve]

NO! STAY AWAY! 😛

[barren berry]

Too late. 80 pound boxes in a hunting area is...good but not? I am not sure what to say about thtat. Especially if those areas have annoying entry mechanics...

[odd badger]

Get a box and die from encumbrance on the way out.. gotta get those gold rings! (unless they don't work in your hunting ground)

[barren berry]

Getting out usually isn't the hard part. I am not a fan of all the spirit drain for going in to the rift bcause I popped 2 boxes as a halfing during a cull. Yes whiney. Or keeping periapts charged because you popped a giant box. Not sure what other places are super annoying.

[stark kindle]

The rift mostly aside from SoS

[wheat leaf]

[You have earned 34 bounty points, 660 experience points, and 17 silver.]skinning bounty's got hit hard for bounty points. Really hard to keep enhancives charged at this rate and less interesting to do now after the 15m cap. I would suggest the bounty points not be connected to the value of the skin but the creature itself

[full zenith]

They didn't get hit they've always done that when your at the cap people just didn't usually hit the cap

[wheat leaf]

so now skin bounty points nerfed if you make to much silver?

[full zenith]

The BPs are tied to the skin value

[wheat leaf]

i iknow that

[obsidian lagoon]

Not now. That’s always been true. Just now you’re going to hit it faster.

[wheat leaf]

i think it needs to be creature based with the new changes

Hive is just going to be less interesting to hunt now

[obsidian lagoon]

I don’t disagree that it should be a level calculation instead of skin value.

[winged valve]

Woah… skinning bounties are out at loot cap I guess. That’s insane.

[shy raft]

its been like that, but now relevant for more folks I wager

[gritty folio]

*relevant for this month - since they implemented this mid month. it may be the case that the flow of silver next month will be proportionally slower also, that you won’t notice it.

but we have to wait for next month to see

for skinning bounties, just save enough high-value skins and put them in a locker for the rest of the month