#[Official] Champion's Apotheosis

1 messages · Page 3 of 1

little breach
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for my hunting group. I currently don't see any reasons for me to invest in upgrading any of their gear. With most upgrades it's always been a small percent increase in your power. This kinda makes that even much less worth it to invest.

formal shoal
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There's a reason why Ascension hunting attracted people from the outset. Players do want bigger things to hit.

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I should've put this mechanic into place when I initiated Ascension, though.

craggy raptor
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The challenge doesn't have to be in the content itself...you've had multiple people here talk about the different things they enjoy about MA groups, despite the lack of a challenge, right?

gusty oxide
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I think CA adding a layer of difficulty to groups is a good thing. I think there have been some decent options presented, but not knowing the code works makes it difficult to really say “hey this is a good idea”

formal shoal
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I don't think the health pools and such make sense, especially with how they'd have to be recalculated, but I am listening to alternatives.

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I also think that resistance is pretty clearly not as much of an issue, feels-wise, as the crit cap.

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(Tell me if I'm misreading that.)

little breach
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I think with challenges there should be more reward. Grinding for 10k kills to get a gemstone being made more difficult doesn't really seem like a great idea. Now if making them more challenging brought down those numbers needed to get a gemstone. then I'd think that would make me think twice about this.

versed ridge
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I also appreciate and reespect your solciting feedback on things that feedlbad, like flares... which you adjusted.
(I am also mid-cold-&flu-thank-you-Nyquil), so typing and coherency is affected

formal shoal
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There's always a little threading of the needle in trying to get to ground truth on an issue like this. It's inescapable that any time we make a change, there are some folks who:

a) Threaten loudly to quit
b) Make incredibly passionate arguments
c) Throw everything in their arsenal at getting us to reverse the change

And sometimes they're right, and sometimes they're just being reactive. (This is not an attack on anyone and I would appreciate it if it's taken in the spirit of full transparency on my thoughts here.)

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I think we've largely avoided a on this issue, which I appreciate so very much.

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(Although I suspect you all know me well enough at this point to know that I'm not just looking to pee in people's cereal.)

opal root
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If ceilings make certain gear unappealing to people who group it narrows the pool of people to sell to so it does have an impact on sales value beyond the personal perception of value. That being said I definitely could feel the difference in crits from blessing flares when testing which makes it feel less worthy of the pricetag I paid for them.

formal shoal
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That makes sense.

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I like the idea of some random blunting of attacks (rather than constant blunting) through a crit ceiling. I think it can be done more deftly than what's on test so that creatures feel a little tankier.

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There's also some give-and-take on this. I'm pretty passionate about wanting more group mechanics that reward the feeling of taking on challenges together, like trying to make physical and magical tanking more of a reality in the future.

versed ridge
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I think that goal would be an excellent effect:

formal shoal
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So I'm looking at this through the lens of future development ideas, too.

craggy raptor
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It seems to me that if the concern is people grouping up and not finding the content challenging enough, we need some content geared towards groups, rather than trying to balance solo content for groups. I think we have some good examples of fun/challenging group content but certainly not enough.

lusty dragon
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Definitely appreciate the ongoing dialogue, Auchand. I’ve hopefully been pretty consistent in my stance that I think CA as a concept is totally fine. I do think that grouping trivializes things a bit too much, so the added challenge is understandable, and even welcome in my case. I like things living longer, it gives me more chances to flare after all! I also don’t have a problem paying the death tax, deeds are a resource that should be spent occasionally.

My only hangup with any of the implementation is that even though I might have an overall increase in flare volume due to the increased durability, each of those flares has felt very diminished. Mind you, I don’t generally view FlareStone as a particularly good way to increase efficiency in the first place (previously mentioned inherent crit caps and randomness, won’t rehabs), and they rarely outright kill even outside of CA.

formal shoal
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Yeah, part of why I pulled back from the hard crit/damage padding approach that we had originally tested was seeing just how bad it was in the live game with regard to flares.

harsh pine
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For the record I am not asking you not to do the AS/DS/TD/CS changes. Can deal with those through upgrades either through XP, $, or coins.

lusty dragon
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I really like the chance-based component idea

formal shoal
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"...1 point of damage!" is the proverbial urine in one's hypothetical morning serving of Mular-Os.

craggy raptor
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Is that issue with flares the same reason that spells like 317 that have a "flare-like" component (the chance for a 2nd plasma critical round based on religion lore training) felt particularly hard hit?

formal shoal
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Probably.

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1030 has its own very weird damage calculation.

harsh pine
formal shoal
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Which, tbh, this has painted a target on it for me. (That doesn't mean I will change it, but it really, really bothers me.)

versed ridge
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Bring on the bard review! Looking forward to it! [Edit: I mean this, but bring it on its completion, not just one spell]

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(and I will admit I have deferred considering gear upgrades or purchases on my bard... because I know that will affect things and choices I would otherwise make)

formal shoal
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I think there are other potential things that could eventually be done in Ascension areas, like having powerful minibosses come attack you if you kill too many creatures too quickly.

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Those would be more of a clear challenge without nerfs involved.

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(I want to be clear that I'm not being coy here, and haven't coded any such thing.)

opal girder
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Are large groups killing proportionally faster than if the group was broken up into a bunch of singles?

So a group of 17 kills over 17x more mobs than a solo?

craggy raptor
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MA groups aside, are you not worried that this mechanic may discourage normal spontaneous group forming in GS? People who might look for a hunting partner may not want to feel nerfed alongside that choice?

formal shoal
craggy raptor
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Some people will surely group just for the fun of it regardless - but I'd expect some will feel less inclined to join/make groups if they know it's going to have a negative effect on their "power".

formal shoal
spiral frost
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17 solos would kill more than a group of 17 and I don't think it's even close unless the 17 solos were all low end characters.

floral marsh
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Is the issue with MA'ers bringing too many gemstones to market? I know I have more opportunity to get more but I also have to SEARCH 17x more mobs (on average) to get them, which if it was just based off a similar system like the fragments are like Leafi said up above I could see where you just need to damage it to have an opportunity to get a gem. But I need to search on average 17x more then the average group, which I can only do by playing more then the average person.

formal shoal
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No, I would've mentioned that as a concern if it was.

lusty dragon
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It’s why I’m consistently amazed at the numbers solo Gemstones hunters put up every week

floral marsh
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Also with the changes, my (depending on the mob) will go through a full rotation before they kill something with the padding in place. Its very mana intensive currently, which I think if I invested the extra $8k/year in to one character they would probably be much more powerful then the group currently with the changes, but thats not how I would enjoy playing and I would get bored very quickly

floral marsh
spiral frost
opal girder
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That’s been the crux of all this for me. What percentage are groups overtaking the average solo? Is a group of 10 killing 15x the number of mobs as a solo with a comparable investment as the group of ten?

If that’s the case seems like the fuzzy numbers are to try to bring a proportional increase in ttk to make it “fair”. Difficulty is a similar but different topic.

formal shoal
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I do think the logic on 17 characters is probably right only because it's unlikely that a creature is going to survive 17 attacks.

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We're never going to have clear numbers on stuff like this. GS is just way too complex to do a "change A, get B."

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(As 1030 proved!)

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Even TTK by class can vary pretty wildly from poll to poll.

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And, as people keep pointing out, the colossal disparities in gear.

spiral frost
harsh pine
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What is a good TTK script if there is one? I am curious now.

opal root
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Just because data can be fun here are the numbers of blessing lore flares on prime v test today:

------------------
Metric               Prime(solo)     Test(Group:5)   Difference     
Total Instances      1137            609             -528           
Avg Damage           17.7            12.28           -5.42          

Crit Rank Distribution (Count / %)
----------------------------------
Rank       Prime                     Test                      Diff (%)       
No Crit    1 (0.1%)                  0 (0.0%)                  -0.1%          
Rank 1     266 (23.4%)               187 (30.7%)               7.3%           
Rank 2     219 (19.3%)               173 (28.4%)               9.1%           
Rank 3     181 (15.9%)               114 (18.7%)               2.8%           
Rank 4     172 (15.1%)               86 (14.1%)                -1.0%          
Rank 5     150 (13.2%)               39 (6.4%)                 -6.8%          
Rank 6     87 (7.7%)                 10 (1.6%)                 -6.1%          
Rank 7     24 (2.1%)                 0 (0.0%)                  -2.1%          
Rank 8     30 (2.6%)                 0 (0.0%)                  -2.6%          
Rank 9     7 (0.6%)                  0 (0.0%)                  -0.6%          

Location Distribution (Top 10 by Prime)
---------------------------------------
Location             Prime                     Test                      Diff (%)       
nerves               403 (35.4%)               168 (27.6%)               -7.8%          
chest                74 (6.5%)                 79 (13.0%)                6.5%           
right arm            66 (5.8%)                 30 (4.9%)                 -0.9%          
left leg             62 (5.5%)                 26 (4.3%)                 -1.2%          
left hand            61 (5.4%)                 28 (4.6%)                 -0.8%          
right eye            56 (4.9%)                 34 (5.6%)                 0.7%           
abdomen              55 (4.8%)                 34 (5.6%)                 0.8%           
right leg            55 (4.8%)                 24 (3.9%)                 -0.9%          
left arm             55 (4.8%)                 22 (3.6%)                 -1.2%          
head                 54 (4.7%)                 36 (5.9%)                 1.2%           
neck                 50 (4.4%)                 40 (6.6%)                 2.2%           
back                 50 (4.4%)                 28 (4.6%)                 0.2%           
left eye             48 (4.2%)                 26 (4.3%)                 0.1%           
right hand           47 (4.1%)                 34 (5.6%)                 1.5%           
No Crit              1 (0.1%)                  0 (0.0%)                  -0.1%
versed ridge
versed ridge
frail cove
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Flare affinity definitely gets devalued with the crit reduction since one of it's two selling points is rank 5-9 crits.

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Normal weighting is bought into with the idea of crit randomization - which is different than Flare affinity, which was bought into with a clearly defined crit window.

opal root
spiral frost
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Heh, if nothing else, 35.4% nerve damage in live is really putting into perspective how crazy lightning flares are.

frail cove
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Good to clearly see how the crit distribution tightens in

versed ridge
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Raw damage has 30.6% reduction from the average (17.7 down by 5.42)

little breach
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I think when people say they want a challenge, they can easily get that by going into the harder areas of HW or even SG. If this is making things challenging why can't this only exist in future areas of ascension where people have the option for more challenges if they want to.

opal root
opal girder
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Exact numbers are tough for sure. So many moving parts but some amount of quantifying might be helpful to determine a reasonable outcome.

Some scaling of danger seems reasonable to me. Extending TTK seems a primary goal. I think raising defenses by alot probably over impacts entry into an area that was already designed for mobs to get debuffed.

Alot feels like the current numbers for offense and defense. Some is some mid point between all or nothing.

Best I can do from a phone. Good luck folks.

versed ridge
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Yeah, I agree. "raw damage" was poor choice of words there. because damage includes crit damage, which is based on rank. (Dayquill here)

formal shoal
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I've put in some tweaks on Test that I'd like some feedback on. Will keep adjusting there.

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(Actually, give them a minute or two to settle here.)

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Okay, ready.

versed ridge
# frail cove Flare affinity definitely gets devalued with the crit reduction since one of it'...

So, with a precursor that I have zero personal investment into lore flares, flare affiinity, or comparable things in the price range.. .and I do not see that ever changing by my choice.
I personally have no issue with a a select few things exempt for CA. They are rare, they are paid for, and they are difficult to balance with everything else.
I do recognize a possible perception problem in creating a perception of pay-to-win. While Simu does offer these rare materials... (which don't exist outside our imagination and lighter pocketbooks), I have never had the perception that they were offered as "needed" to do the next hard thing. Players who buy them want them for their characters, and their images of power and prestige.
By exempting things like lore flares, flare affinity, rare transmutes for hard and ascended group content... that may create a perception problem of pushing them as pay-to-win. THat's not the goal, and again IMO Simu has avoided this perception, but I can see that as the result if gear options X, Y, and Z are exempted.

formal shoal
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The current change on Test is:

Less physical resistance
Less magical resistance
Tweaks to crit ceiling so it is a soft cap rather than a hard one

versed ridge
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I do like the adjustments made for flares=feelsbad from the first version that went to Prime.
Also, I hope to try groups of 4-5 on Test this weekend. I just don't have energy to update and setup everyone while on xxQuill

craggy raptor
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sounds like this weekend on prime is gonna be a slog again? doesn't seem like we're close to pushing updates

spiral frost
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Will poke onto test after dinner.

But I do want to say real quick that I hope we don't end up in an endless cycle where, three and a half years from now (picking that number because it's been three and a half years since the release of the Hinterwilds), people have used exp/gear/Gemstones/whatever else to gain enough power to steamroll the final form of Champion's Apotheosis and so another new thing needs to be created to make things even harder. I could just imagine new Ascension abilities being created to handle the greater challenge, then three and a half years later people would be overpowering the greater challenge, so an even newer thing would need to be created to add even more challenge...

I'd like to see Elite/Legendary Ascension abilities at some point. If that means spending time creating some superascension area that only five characters in the current game can hunt so they don't get bored and quit, please, do that too to avoid the death spiral cycle.

frail cove
frail cove
rose atlas
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RE: 1 - I think there are challenges out there for those who seek it out. Simply moving from HW to SG is an increased challenge due to mechanics. I would prefer to add new increased challenges instead of creating a fake challenge (for groups only) while the solo characters steamroll through the area.

RE: 2 - I find it less fun with regard to my pures, because one-shot kills are not fun.

RE: 3 - It devalues gear by no longer providing the benefit it previously did, unless you're a solo player, then it just helps you to steamroll through the content.

versed ridge
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I'm looking forward to the invasion of the Emperyeals, airships, etc, with those increased drop rates for gemstones and codices. Call this my speculation or reading-between-the-lines... but I'd expect any changes to difficulty to address (like CA) would be done before that release... because players would revolt if they had a taste of that and THEN group difficulty and mongen changes were done. Definitely best to get that adjustment done first, so the new things can be tweaked to the current normal.

frail cove
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Auchand did state that bandwidth and resources (human) is the big hurdle for them with focusing on content though.

wide stone
wide stone
floral marsh
rose atlas
wide stone
floral marsh
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I shouldn't say overwhelmed. The two non-capped characters were getting sheer feared and I didn't understand how that could happen in a warcamp lol

wide stone
harsh pine
rose atlas
rose atlas
wide stone
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Can you imagine there being a random measured chance that you've killed too many somethings and ticked off some massive something that comes in and crushes you and your team? I mean it would perhaps stink in the moment but can't say it doesn't up the ante and make things more entertaining.

harsh pine
rose atlas
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If it came in and "crushed me and my team" I would just do everything I can to avoid it. If it provided a challenging fight that wasnt an instant loss, sure, maybe.

wide stone
harsh pine
lusty dragon
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She's got a boatload of HP. Special skin, too

lime bison
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I think GSIV has less devaluing of gear/z_PepeWhale than any game I've seen with mechanical p2w like we have here. The normal cycle in those games is the spenders whale out then in a few months or maybe a year max all the stuff they spent on is outdated because a new "thing" came out.

serene peak
opal root
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So I didn't want to spend all night in test but I did a couple hundred runs of blessing lore flares across different group sizes to get a feel for the difference. Definitely didn't feel bad in the smaller groups, once I get to 5 it was hit or miss not radically different from earlier but I'd probably have to do more runs. At least 1 flare slipped through the ceiling that was in earlier.

General Statistics
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Metric               Group:2         Group:3         Group:4         Group:5         
Total Instances      258             282             279             299             
Avg Damage           18.26           15.74           14.56           13.41           

Crit Rank Distribution (Count / %)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rank       Group:2              Group:3              Group:4              Group:5              
Rank 1     63 (24.4%)           71 (25.2%)           79 (28.3%)           92 (30.8%)           
Rank 2     43 (16.7%)           66 (23.4%)           64 (22.9%)           77 (25.8%)           
Rank 3     29 (11.2%)           41 (14.5%)           47 (16.8%)           46 (15.4%)           
Rank 4     53 (20.5%)           48 (17.0%)           47 (16.8%)           40 (13.4%)           
Rank 5     29 (11.2%)           39 (13.8%)           25 (9.0%)            36 (12.0%)           
Rank 6     33 (12.8%)           11 (3.9%)            13 (4.7%)            7 (2.3%)             
Rank 7     3 (1.2%)             3 (1.1%)             1 (0.4%)             0 (0.0%)             
Rank 8     5 (1.9%)             3 (1.1%)             3 (1.1%)             1 (0.3%)         ```
grim wadi
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I'm interested in the Ascension mini-bosses appearing more (Wrath of Winter or the Lord of Storms or such, depending on the area), Anger of V'tull (critters get haste as more people group up), etc.
Or other similar things, like temp damage shields, mob resurrection, etc, mini-boss buffs.

rose atlas
spiral frost
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The latest test server iteration is like... barely discernible what it even does to magic and that's in a group of 10. Both these are the same draugr:

Bloodstained light spills down from the heavens in an undulating deluge, bathing a withered shadow-cloaked draugr's form in a cascade of transcendent power!
Particles of dust and soot rise from the floor at your feet as you release a pulsating, platinum ripple of energy toward a withered shadow-cloaked draugr!
  CS: +558 - TD: +447 + CvA: +18 + d100: +62 == +191
  Warding failed!
  The shadow-cloaked draugr is cloaked in a blinding platinum light and assailed for 107 points of damage!
A withered shadow-cloaked draugr's aura absorbs some of the damage!
   ... 20 points of damage!
   Intense arc of energy flays the shadow-cloaked draugr's arm to the bone!
   The shadow-cloaked draugr is stunned!
A withered shadow-cloaked draugr's aura absorbs some of the damage!
   ... 45 points of damage!
   Tremendous plasma discharge slices deep into the shadow-cloaked draugr's chest!
A withered shadow-cloaked draugr's aura absorbs some of the damage!
   ... 10 points of damage!
   The shadow-cloaked draugr's finger twitches, then explodes.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.

You channel at a withered shadow-cloaked draugr.
Two dim, green globes spring to life in your open hands.  With a quick flick of your wrists, the orbs dance through the air toward a withered shadow-cloaked draugr!
  CS: +558 - TD: +447 + CvA: +18 + d100: +49 == +178
  Warding failed!
The orbs squarely impact a withered shadow-cloaked draugr, discharging the green energy over her entire being for 94 points of damage!
  The green energy pulses for an additional 65 points of damage ...
  ... 39 points of damage ...
  ... 19 points of damage ...
  ... 9 points of damage ...
  ... dissipating with a final discharge of 4 points of damage!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
Roundtime: 3 sec.```
#

Melee's more noticeable because some light armored thing like that disciple would have gotten destroyed on a 236 endroll outside a group.

📎 message.txt
rose atlas
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I feel like magic should be affected less than physical, simply for the fact that physical is pretty much unlimited vs the limited mana reserves.

frail cove
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Did some testing... in a group of 5, Flare affinity dispel flares ranged quite a bit.
The 5 disruption ones that went off in my test were:

Rank 1
Rank 4
Rank 5
Rank 7
Rank 8

I had lots of flux flares go off, but dont think i'm going to get around to scanning what all ranks they were.

I can post snippets of spell casting if anyone wants to see it, but I would agree with Leafiara, it didn't feel like spells were really impacted at all. They felt close to full strength.
(Cleric, Empath, and Wizard spells tested)

spiral frost
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Not really sure what a soft crit cap is, but what it feels like is basically... reverse weighting, almost? Like sometimes your hits are just as devastating as expected (the 352 and 539 here) while other times they're substantially reduced (the 445 and 437).

📎 message.txt
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Flares seem a lot better than the current live version. They hit 15-25 fairly regularly from what I've seen, here and many other times. (Guessing it's still not an environment for Flare Affinity, but someone else will have to test that particular thing!)

📎 message.txt
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Hmm. I don't have a script to track things as well as Tijay did, but I'm starting to have a sneaking suspicion that, actually, starsong flares and Blessings flares are just better or weighted in some way that's less affected by CA... I anecdotally see better results from them than, say, paladin 1604 flares, paladin Battle Standard flares, GEF, or Skullcrusher.

rose atlas
# 
if cost > $1000
  flare_nerf = nil
else
 flare_nerf = 50%
end
opal root
frail cove
rose atlas
spiral frost
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T4 Animalistic Spirit and T2 Energy Weapon also seem to perform better than 1604, Battle Standard, bless (not Blessings Lore Flares), and GEF. I think I'm out of script flares to test now, though.

Edit: Wait, no I'm not. T2 Sprite Weapon still, sec.

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This is kind of a perfect test, actually, because the same runestaff has T2 Sprite and conventional generic disruption flares. I'll try to get like 20 of each and see the results, small sample size though it is.

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...wait. Are crush/puncture/slash still more penalized than other damage types? I'm seeing worse results on sprite, which does crush damage, than the disruption flares.

opal root
spiral frost
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Disruption: 20, 5, 15, 20, 10, 5, 1, 10, 15, 5, 15, 20
T2 sprite crush: 3, 10, 1, 5, 10, 5, 5, 10, 3, 5

Not going to pursue this specific test further for now since I don't know if the data is contaminated by crush still being more penalized. This is all on mastodons if that influences it either in any way that I wouldn't know about.

versed ridge
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I thought Krush (magical) was seperate from crush(aka impact?) physical... but darned if I know.

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I vaguely recall Krush being a rare (uncomon?) flare token at EG years back.. or something. Energy shield script adds default to Krush... which IIRC contradicts the certificate saying an off-the-rack element could be selected, but I didn't push on it.

spiral frost
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Volley seems back on the menu. Still weaker than before CA, but it's worth firing off for some minor DoT chip damage and wound stacking, at least, which it isn't in the current live iteration.

opal root
# 
It is a tier 3 Energy Weapon containing Krush flares.``` It definitely use the crush crit table messaging
quasi skiff
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It’s just regular crush. GM side calls it krush cause reasons.

spiral frost
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And my Energy Weapon bow is lightning, I should add, not crush like these HESS-added ones. 😛

opal root
spiral frost
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Okay, now I'm out of script flares to test. I think I'll try one last thing before hopping off: fixskilling to an ultra Summoning-heavy paladin to see if that basically bypasses CA for the purpose of 1604 flares' second hit. I don't have expectations either way. 719's elemental lore crit rank boosts didn't seem to bypass CA in live (guess I should test that on new test too), but 335's Religion lore crit rank boost does seem to.

opal root
versed ridge
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Volley as well

spiral frost
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Yeah, but that same night I showed you my 1630 didn't bypass CA.

versed ridge
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Without looking at the logs before, you can't tell from log of just 1630. CA is only activated (that deluge messaging) on initial target

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I know 1630 and 335 killed a few mobs (mastodons, wargs, maybe) before anyone could target them. (group of 4). The CA messaging was never seen before they died.

spiral frost
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It wouldn't have mattered to any of my current run of tests that have been single-target or mstrikes/AoE techniques that target regardless.

#

252 Summoning doesn't seem to aid 1604 second flares much if at all in a CA context.

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And now back to live, mostly because I have less than a 24 hour window to find Gemstone 2 on a couple characters. 😬

little breach
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so when I said I wasn't going to gear my characters up because of this, it was a logical statement and not a threat. What would be the point in spending money on flares that are only going to chip away at things when these are the areas you purchase these items for? Some of these numbers are really disappointing to see when they typically perform better.

formal shoal
serene peak
formal shoal
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I think your understanding of how we evaluate things is off.

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But I'm also not sure what you could say about why people went toward Ascension hunting pre-rewards that would make us aggressively nerf anything.

serene peak
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Maybe, but I also base it on past results, years of debates over nerfs that didn't need to happen, and Simu's general endless quest to homogenize everything and make everybody the same, which doesn't seem to have changed since that's apparently expanding to include groups vs. solo now. I'm still struggling to understand what problem this is solving and who if anyone has been complaining about it.

#

TLDR I don't trust you guys to stop nerfing things, so I just don't talk about anything specific anymore with mechanics.

formal shoal
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Yeah, I don't think we really have common ground on this. My response to player concerns has always been to engage with them and figure out how to make systems better, not worse. By not airing your concerns, you basically ensure that they won't be factored in when decisions are made.

#

The game doesn't exist in a state of homogeneity among professions at all, so if that was our goal, we certainly haven't pursued anything at all that would move things in that direction.

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We also don't make game balance changes because someone is complaining about things. They're typically to make the game more stable long-term, and arguably, GS's longevity speaks to some success there.

little breach
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I’m also kinda failing to understand why grouping means you want more of a challenge? If someone is grouping with another person it usually means they can’t do it on their own and need help. Why would it equate to making things more difficult?

formal shoal
#

@little breach I think that's a false premise.

little breach
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But difficulty goes up with just 2 people right?

formal shoal
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Yes. That doesn't change the fact that I don't think either premise is grounded in reality.

#

  1. Grouping doesn't mean you want more of a challenge (and CA doesn't make the game more challenging for two grouped players than one solo player.)

  2. Other than the wyrm and sybil fights, I don't know of situations where players are regularly grouping up to fight creatures that are too hard to fight otherwise.

serene peak
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I'm sure the intent is there, I don't question that. The method however...we'll just have to agree to disagree that this ain't it, at least this current version.

Instead of messing with existing content, maybe instead design the next content around whatever so you can design the creature mechanics around it instead of nerfing player mechanics to fit the vision.

little breach
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Kinda confused on that since the core reason most of the time for grouping up in any game is additional support for most. I’m sure there are a lot of people out there that would need to group up for ascension content with how it existed.

formal shoal
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If that's the case, grouping still provides a significant benefit.

#

Wouldn't you agree?

serene peak
#

Nerfing groups to make them "equal" to a solo player is homogenizing.

formal shoal
#

How are groups being made "equal" to a solo player?

serene peak
#

Are groups not being penalized for being in a group?

formal shoal
#

Again, how are groups being made "equal" to a solo player?

little breach
#

I agree that grouping definitely provides a big benefit. Not sure I would make it more difficult until we get above a certain amount. I know this is a tough thing to work out and appreciate you keeping an open mind and listening / making adjustments

formal shoal
#

I would like to understand your logic.

#

Are you really claiming that adding an additional player to your group is outweighed by +15 AS, +3 CS, +12 Physical DS, +9 Bolt DS, and 4% resistance on a creature?

little breach
#

I feel like the way grouping works though right now it provides more benefit to MAers. The problem is any benefit to real individuals grouping together benefits MAers. But the issue why most don’t group up is because of gemstones being tied to the looter.

chilly zenith
formal shoal
#

I'd really like to get to the bottom of the claim here. Does that really negate the existence of a whole other player's damage to make your group of 2 equal to a solo player?

serene peak
#

I'm not saying 1:1 equal in a literal sense, hence the quotes, but those numbers are per group member right? You really don't see that as penalizing a group for being in a group, and in turn nerfing things some people (not me) have sunk thousands of dollars into as a side effect on top of it, for example?

#

If you're trying to deal with massive groups instead of "any" group, then set a number, and any group larger than that number gets hit with those penalties. Groups of 2-3 or whatever aren't the problem if MA crews are what's fueling this.

formal shoal
serene peak
#

So "penalty" but with more words.

formal shoal
#

A penalty would imply that it's worse to group than not group. Do you feel that that's the case?

serene peak
#

No, a penalty would imply negative XYZ happening because of A. A = being grouped and B = those numbers

formal shoal
#

You keep evading the question here. Is it still beneficial to group, or not?

serene peak
#

You tell me.... let's say I walk into a swam, disband my group, and then we start casting aoe spells. Is that considered GMA?

formal shoal
#

Nope.

#

Would you want to do that?

serene peak
#

People would 100% do that to sidestep group penalty mechanics.

formal shoal
#

Being perfectly candid, I wouldn't and feel like managing things like that is way more of an inconvenience than CA.

serene peak
#

It's really nothing a macro or a couple extra lines on a script wouldn't handle. Little to no extra management.

formal shoal
#

I mean, if people want to wait for their recently grouped status to fall off before fighting, I cannot stop them.

#

I don't doubt that there will be people who do that, but I'd ask why.

serene peak
#

So the "recently grouped" status is obviously to prevent something like that then. Know why? Because if that wasn't there, people would do it to avoid the group penalty.

formal shoal
#

To Neovik's earlier point, I doubt that organically grouped players would do that.

#

I do think that if it's a MA crowd script-hunting, you're correct. There is no challenge in a script that is doing it already.

little breach
#

just with the way ascension works with gemstone loot and stuff like that. Even the whole loot cap thing kinda puts a damper on actual people grouping with each other. I guess I could see more individuals grouping together if there were a way to tell or assign gemstone loot kinda like how relics get shared to a group.

formal shoal
#

I actually think that assigning Gemstones that way is obviously a much bigger benefit to MAers than to organic groupers.

#

Because at least if you're in a group together, you can round robin in some ways.

#

But I agree that the current implentation doesn't feel good.

#

(Before someone takes that out of context--I mean Gemstones dropping only for the searcher.)

little breach
#

well that's why if there were a way to tell if the group actually had individuals and randomly assign between actual individuals though and not when all the same person

serene peak
#

My whole point is there's a better way to deal with this problem that isn't really a problem in the first place. I'm not saying I have the answers, and I'm not gonna sit in here all day debating over it, so I'll just wait and see what the end result is.

The best idea I've heard so far was either the mini-boss or shield idea someone floated around yesterday. Wrecking peoples' flares or whatever other character weakening mechanics that they paid big money for and similar things like that are just going to leave a bad taste in peoples' mouths. Adding boss spawns and all that would at least make the areas more interesting. I'd prefer to have more people not quitting the game.

little breach
#

but in reality we shouldn't have to do that.. the whole MA thing kinda make it worse as a whole for game play though where it's being combated when that door should of never been opened a long time ago to allow MAing. heh...

But the door is opened and it's allowed so I guess should we really be trying to penalize it at this point or make mechanics around it.

rose atlas
formal shoal
#

I try not to assign too much hatred to MAers. Everybody plays the way they want to play.

#

The fellow at SimuCon who was massively multiboxing was certainly impressive.

#

My only quibble with the MA crowd is, "Is this hurting other players?"

serene peak
#

Isn't that what the spawn changes were supposed to fix?

rose atlas
#

For some ascension areas, depending on class, you are already using every advantage available without spending thousands of dollars just to reach the pass/fail threshold.

formal shoal
rose atlas
#

How do you feel they hurt other players

formal shoal
#

I am pretty happy with the spawn changes.

formal shoal
serene peak
#

The spawn changes seem fine from what I've seen so far. That said, what problem is this other stuff solving then? It's probably safe to say that people running groups of 10+ aren't doing it for the challenge. Some people just like mowing down swarms. That's the only reason I drag my few alts around with me is for more spawns.

formal shoal
#

Either they flooded an active zone with swarms, or they quickly roflstomped underactive zones.

#

I think the spawn changes overall have resulted in a better flow of creatures across the game. There are a few areas that can still use some tweaking.

little breach
#

yeah I would definitely agree I love the latest spawn changes. I'm just not really sure about this whole penalization stuff

serene peak
#

Yeah I can actually find things to kill in Moonsedge now. Before the spawn changes it took forever to find anything, even in a group of 4.

formal shoal
serene peak
#

What do you consider "slightly"? That could mean anything tbh.

formal shoal
#

I don't think hunting should be entirely challenge-free, and I do think you can create a group for whom there are 0 challenges while hunting.

serene peak
#

You know people can solo the wyrm right?

frail cove
#

I’ve been running on test, a decent amount.

A lot of people seem to be making this statement in the current environment:
“when we group, things become more difficult than being solo.”

This is false.

For any character thats 8m to 30m exp. Grouping is still making things easier than being solo.

Yes. It is harder than it was before. But grouping is still more advantageous than being solo. Just LESS advantageous than it was before

formal shoal
rose atlas
little breach
#

I think the big issue there is that most times in gemstone, people just get outright one shotted rather then take a hit and react to help out that character. Getting one shotted isn't really a challenge or fun though.

it's just ultimately bad luck

formal shoal
#

That's not intentional, but we do have some wildly overpowered characters/classes.

serene peak
#

Sounds like groups aren't the problem then.

formal shoal
#

Again, I don't approach things like that.

#

I'm not going, "GROUPS ARE A PROBLEM; I MUST DESTROY THEM!"

serene peak
#

Let people enjoy making their characters powerful and feeling powerful God knows you guys charge them enough for it.

formal shoal
#

I mean, I'm not the one with the yachts here, man.

frail cove
rose atlas
formal shoal
#

I get my pizza money and I get to hang out with Nyxus. That's a sufficient reward.

serene peak
#

If I were a dev, I'd leave current areas how they are, and design new areas with this stuff in mind, groups capped at X amount of people, etc. or whatever you're trying to accomplish. Desigining something like that from the ground up is usually going to have less negatives associated with it than nerfing existing things.

formal shoal
#

I do not have the bandwidth to design an entirely new tier of Ascension before the current one is fleshed out.

serene peak
#

That doesn't make it any less valid of a suggestion.

opal root
formal shoal
#

The lack of infinite time on this Earth definitely makes it less valid. 😛

#

Look, I don't doubt that I will eventually come up with a new challenge level once Ascension hunting is saturated.

prisma flame
little breach
#

in gemstone it's not even possible to max everything out in our life spans.

rose atlas
#

I'd rather the base creatures have their difficulty increased than it being increased due to grouping. That way every class and person suffers equally.

formal shoal
#

What becomes challenging after this point is accommodating the massive gear and profession differentials in a new tier.

little breach
#

maybe make ascension tears that brings you to an alternate universe for that ascension area with the exits closed off other then going through another tear to return to our realty. Those universes will be a lot more difficult? heh...

formal shoal
#

We could go the direction of each--let's call them Elite Ascension--ground requiring its own gear that would only function in that ground.

lime bison
#

ascension tears come after 5000 searches kekw

formal shoal
#

But I don't think anyone would play in those grounds.

frail cove
#

i love how everyone ignores how much easier things are grouped, as a baseline. No matter how many times it's brought up, it's just ignored. lol

With CA - thing are NOT more difficult being grouped vs. being solo (for characters below 30m exp and not in god tier gear).

With CA, Things are more difficult than they used to be when grouped, but still less difficult than being solo.

opal root
#

Someone like Jaired might. That would be a hard pass for me though

serene peak
prisma flame
rose atlas
frail cove
lusty dragon
rose atlas
opal root
#

Before I start playing for real is there more data that people need from test?

formal shoal
#

I think we'll probably roll out what's on Test to Live shortly.

lusty dragon
#

I do still need to take a sweep on nu-test to evaluate the latest cycle

formal shoal
#

I am a captive audience on an airplane for the next four hours, so... no time like now.

frail cove
#

plane wifi.... we're all doomed

rose atlas
#

Why does all the fun stuff happen when i should be sleeping. Fun conversations, fun testing. 😭

lime bison
formal shoal
rose atlas
#

I will admit that once I changed my tactics the current version was less of a headache but it relies on some mega cheats.

formal shoal
#

Okay, modified CA is live.

rose atlas
opal root
#

Ah yes because I only play 1 class of character.

formal shoal
#

glances at his own Barkskin SK.

sage owl
#

You know … I just appreciate having Auchand give feedback

grim wadi
#

I think these changes (based on what Kontii and others posted last night) might be okay, but I'll have to try them in groups more. I would be careful of assuming 'everyone' wants a challenge in Ascension. I would argue that most of us don't really...we just like harder mobs we can still wipe the floor with, to feel like all of our gear matters.

opal root
#

I've never felt more powerful than when I was in OTF

grim wadi
#

A new zone with even harder mobs, like SG, works better than making old things hard. That feels like progression

serene peak
grim wadi
#

Also, hunting isn't really that important to most of us, RP or mechanically, except as necessary to get experience. It's a minimal commitment to GS life, while the real game happens elsewhere, so making it 'more' difficult by default is an error.

formal shoal
#

There are places to hunt at cap if you don't want a challenge.

wide stone
#

Friends.

Good morning. I'm coming in late. I wanted to address one point @formal shoal is making and sort of rephrase a bit so it would fit my ongoing concern.

"I try not to assign too much hatred to MAers. Everybody plays the way they want to play."

I hope you don't hate me. Not yet anyway. Not sure what I would have done to earn that.

"My only quibble with the MA crowd is, "Is this hurting other players?"

Other than creating spawn issues, which have been fixed in the other tweak, I have yet to hear how this occurs. I'd love to know. Personally if my playstyle is harming others I will change my playstyle without GM oversight.

Finally, back to my concern.

"I don't think hunting should be entirely challenge-free, and I do think you can create a group for whom there are 0 challenges while hunting."

This is such a subjective statement as to be nonsensical to me. If I take a group of capped characters designed and grouped by me to an area to hunt that poses 0 challenges, let's say the kobold village, then that is my choice. If it becomes disruptive to young players then makes sure there's some policy in place to aid that issue. Otherwise, it's just a choice a player made for some silly reason. If you want to regulate that with a monster something stepping in on obviously overpowered groups to give them a surprise, so be it.

But you don't nerf their stuff in an effort to punish, yes I said punish as I disagree with your definition. Oxford defines punish as "inflict or impose a restriction, financial penalty, form of suffering, or other undesired consequence on (someone) because they have committed an offense." And I think this is precisely what it feels like. The implementation of a restriction or undesired consequence (nerfing gear impact for individual characters) for the sin of grouping with others. What the crime is? No idea as I've not found policy that it violates.

I'm not fussing about things being a challenge or not to the group, I'm fussing about nerfing effectiveness of an individual's gear and training and skills for the sin of joining another player/character. That is wrong. There are other ways to create challenges if that is truly your goal.

I've yet to test out the current version so I'll try that now. I'd love to understand this better from another perspective perhaps.

rose atlas
#

Geez

serene peak
#

Maintaining sanity farming 9487329234432870 kills for a 2nd or 3rd gemstone is an achievement on its own

sage owl
#

SG is pretty difficult … it’s hard to solo most of all the mobs there.. so it is almost required to group with others to be able to “manage” a specific zone… which why I said it’s not nearly as fun in groups of 3-5 with the previous CA because it’s more necessary to group than Pewpew mobs aimlessly

formal shoal
#

@wide stone I do not hate you or other MAers.

#

Nor do I see CA as a punishment. I see it as a necessity to preserve some of my design intent for Ascension areas.

sage owl
#

Which I personally enjoy, because it’s the risk vs rewards… I just felt like it will put others off who aren’t as …. “Resourceful” as I am

formal shoal
#

Like I've said, I think the group impacts on hunting areas have been pretty handily addressed by the spawn rate changes.

opal root
#

I think SG is pretty class specific, I do think adding 120 DS to primordials is uh gonna be rough and its a good thing you already have to lean into other methods to take them down

sage owl
#

Thankfully, I just dropped another grand on gear to handle 3 man CA

wide stone
formal shoal
#

I did.

formal shoal
lime bison
#

MA'ers affect the normal population in a ton of ways because we farm ridiculous amounts of gemstones in ezmode. It affects the market of the game at the very least majorly. When talking about haves and have nots, right now MA'ers are 100% the haves.

sage owl
gusty oxide
#

Can we suggest you address them by throwing them off a cliff?

asking for a friend

sage owl
#

Also… when the MDR is over 50% chance of them hitting you… and like 15% of outright one shot kills… it’s pretty daunting

rose atlas
#

The gemstone carrots aren't that great when they're mostly nidalstones.

How about a better carrot like letting us INFUSE gemstones into gemstones to get what we actually want.

formal shoal
sage owl
gusty oxide
#

I also don't think this is the thread to discuss the effects of MAers on the rest of the game, but that's also been hashed out in multiple places by multiple people.

sage owl
#

I’m sorry that my noob 30m xp+ character doesn’t have enough training

formal shoal
#

As someone who just spent the better part of the year training Dodge as a Wizard, my heart is with you.

sage owl
#

Also with max dodge , armor , cman , moc , perception , pf trained as well

formal shoal
#

I suspect MDRs will get some tuning, especially in concert with player-cast ones.

frail cove
# wide stone Friends. Good morning. I'm coming in late. I wanted to address one point <@10...

Your statement here....
This is such a subjective statement as to be nonsensical to me. If I take a group of capped characters designed and grouped by me to an area to hunt that poses 0 challenges, let's say the kobold village, then that is my choice. If it becomes disruptive to young players then makes sure there's some policy in place to aid that issue. Otherwise, it's just a choice a player made for some silly reason. If you want to regulate that with a monster something stepping in on obviously overpowered groups to give them a surprise, so be it.
Just to clarify a tiny bit.....

NONE of the CA updates are relevant in this situation.

CA is ONLY for the hardest content in the game (ascension hunting) - where the best rewards are (Gemstones and the potential for legendary drops).

To me, at least. Making the content more balanced for all play types (solo, small groups, large groups, etc...) makes complete sense where the rewards are the best.

rose atlas
#

It's not making it more balanced for all play types

frail cove
#

I say this, as someone who uses groups, and massively benefits from group hunting.

harsh pine
#

I still think Melee feels nerfed too much. But its way closer. 2 cents. enjoy your flight.

formal shoal
wide stone
# frail cove Your statement here.... ```This is such a subjective statement as to be nonsens...

it is a ridiculous hypothetical... I know it doesn't apply in the kobold village. Let me tweak it a bit more to be literal. Let's say a group of 10 50m exp characters with $20k of equipment each goes a huntin in HW. Punishing a newly capped team by nerfing their hard-earned stuff in an effort to pose some tiny challenge to the 500m exp group does not seem a good approach and makes us lessers feel spat upon and our investments devalued. Better?

harsh pine
serene peak
frail cove
# formal shoal What group size?

I'll say with my group of 5-6 last night.... my bard, swinging with 200-300 end rolls and a VHCW shortsword was almost never getting a crit kill.

But I guess that's kind of the intent to this

frail cove
serene peak
#

They've dropped from bandits before, Scatter, warcamps (I think), etc.

harsh pine
#

I started seeing crit kills at very high resolutions. This is with a pretty heavily weighted spear.

   ... and hit for 139 points of damage!
   Slash to head destroys the death knight's right eye!
   Doesn't do her brain any good either.```
rose atlas
#

Everyone just needs to get a 700 endroll, no problem.

Everyone in a group that is.

leaden grail
#

Looks like I escaped the 2015 vortex of this mornings conversations and I'm to the present.

formal shoal
chilly zenith
#

Step 1: Get +711 endroll
Step 2: Don't not get +711 endroll

rose atlas
#

My poor little bolting wizard is lucky to get a 200 endroll

formal shoal
#

May I talk to you about our Lord and Savior, One-Second Lance Swings?

leaden grail
#

Lot of us are by design min/maxers. I think the more casual community grouping organizations are the quiet voice I wonder about. I won't name them, but many of the weekly group hunts and ASC big game type of groupings or ASC night teams

chilly zenith
#

I believe Alastir has some experience playing a lance mage

rose atlas
#

Ceiling too low.

harsh pine
# 
   ... and hit for 63 points of damage!
   Slash along the death knight's lower back.
   The death knight is stunned!```

I am not arguing. But just asking. With 20 cer and 400ish resolutions rank 2 spear feels light. Rank 3 which doesn't feel out of the norm would be slightly more acceptable maybe? Just asking.
formal shoal
rose atlas
#

Use a lance, see who can one shot who first

frail cove
gusty oxide
#

Squirrel pelts still sell for a fair bit.

wide stone
harsh pine
# 
   ... and hit for 113 points of damage!
   Hard blow to the death knight's ear!
   Deep gash and a terrible headache!
Roundtime: 4 sec.
Roundtime changed to 1 second.```

I am okay chalking this up to crit randomization. I just really think it should have been the next rank.
formal shoal
frail cove
#

what group size, Jinsem?

harsh pine
opal root
#

How does a soft cap for crits works? it raises the end roll/damage between crit ranks required?

formal shoal
#

You did over a quarter of its health in one one-second hit, though.

formal shoal
#

Same thing with the resulting crit damage.

opal root
#

Interesting

formal shoal
#

The more you're over, the better off you are in the randoming, though.

leaden grail
#

I want to talk about the DF codex and why it was removed from consideration after Simucon. My endrolls and damage cap out and my attack strength is wasted. 😉

harsh pine
opal root
#

Just start aiming for the chest instead get that damage up

harsh pine
#

I suppose.

formal shoal
wide stone
harsh pine
# 
  AS: +726 vs DS: +433 with AvD: +13 + d100 roll: +94 = +400
   ... and hit for 94 points of damage!
   Slash to the death knight's left eye!
   Vitreous fluid spews forth!
   Seeya!```

This hit feels goodish. Probably rounded me up on randomization. Its also admittedly my favorite crit in the game so I am biased.
formal shoal
#

Arguably, the group with the higher crit weighting on their weapons has more to lose from this, though.

#

If your crits are not already over the soft cap, you'd see no real change in that portion of CA.

harsh pine
#

Did you tweak anything in the last few minutes?

frail cove
formal shoal
wide stone
harsh pine
# 
Your rusalkoren greatshield flashes toward an infernal death knight!
[SMR result: 263 (Open d100: 69, Bonus: 120)]
   ... 101 points of damage!
   ... 20 points of damage!
   Good blow to left hand!
   The death knight is stunned!
   ... 20 points of damage!
   Left hand slammed.  Finger broken!

 ** A spike on your rusalkoren greatshield jabs into the death knight! **
   ... 10 points of damage!
   Strike through the palm!
Your rusalkoren greatshield ricochets off the death knight and flashes toward a smouldering skeletal dreadsteed!
[SMR result: 219 (Open d100: 63, Bonus: 120)]
   ... 76 points of damage!
   ... 30 points of damage!
   Hard strike to left arm breaking tendons and bone!
   The skeletal dreadsteed is stunned!
   ... 25 points of damage!
   Opponent's arm snaps trying to prevent fall.```

This is was a total outlier and nothing I have seen since you made the changes.  Just FYI.
#

50s, maybe some 30s etc was "normal"

formal shoal
#

It is the same mechanic, but if you're scraping to make crits against these creatures, you are far less affected.

wide stone
frail cove
gusty oxide
#

Do you think 2 8m exp characters grouped have it easier or the same as 1 8m character hunting in ascension? Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point.

formal shoal
#

So you'd prefer to see players get less effective as they gain more experience? I am confused.

wide stone
formal shoal
#

I think I'm going to get bodied if I institute a Senile Dementia Ascension mechanic.

wide stone
#

oh that would be funny

formal shoal
#

"You feel like you should probably go back to Hearthstone, granddad."

gusty oxide
#

But again, as soon as you start grouping up in ascension the difficulty level drops... and that's not really about gear.

formal shoal
#

Yeah, I don't want to lose sight of that.

#

This isn't targeting gear/exp/etc. It's targeting the amount of challenge negated by grouping.

gusty oxide
#

Mistakes are much more easy to come back from, when you have other people to help smooth those issues out. So even 2 people with low exp and OTS gear are going to have an easier time (thank 1 person with low exp and ots gear)... so this is aimed at groups and not at gear/exp.

formal shoal
#

And, as I've said a lot, it's not eliminating the challenge negation, it's just lessening it.

#

I would say this: if you can find me groups that sincerely cannot hunt with these changes, I'll take a look and figure it out.

gusty oxide
#

Oh yeah, my comments aren't at you but Ishtae. 🙂

frail cove
gusty oxide
#

I only have the two I can test together, but my 8m cleric's 309s look better and that's nice. 🙂

wide stone
#

@formal shoal I completely understand and believe you with the intent. What I'm failing to communicate effectively is that creating a challenge that nerfs the gear of a much lower exp group impacts them more than that of a higher experience group and that doesn't seem to line up with the "make a challenge" goal for all. @gusty oxide it is about the gear if it impacts the gear.

formal shoal
#

How much of a nerf do you feel it has made to the gear of that hypothetical group?

frail cove
formal shoal
#

(I agree.)

gusty oxide
frail cove
wide stone
#

I appreciate the question. I'm going to watch today with different styles and see the impact. I will say my starsong claid was pretty different but I've not run it today and tomorrow. My point remains though. I've not found gear that comes close to matching the simple raw power of exp and I'm glad of that. Nerfing to any degree a player's gear is, IMO, just wrong. There are other ways to challenge.

gusty oxide
#

I do think that debating the merits of it without having tested it is kind of just muddying the conversation and making it more difficult for Auchand to actually gather information.

formal shoal
#

Hrm, I very much disagree with respect to gear vs. experience.

#

Skills come up against hard caps that gear does not.

wide stone
formal shoal
#

Getting my Blink weapon was a massive power upgrade that 1 point of AS every few days wasn't doing.

harsh pine
# formal shoal How much of a nerf do you feel it has made to the gear of that hypothetical grou...

I felt elite with my weapon choices, gear choices before. My defensive items are still in that category. I feel like I don't have a 20 cer weapon anymore, but its not a 10 cer weapon. I feel like I can't quite crest into elite and if I should spend to go 25 cer.

I don't mind the added complexity, and maybe you don't want me to go to 25 cer to be able to crest it. And thats cool. I just feel sort of "lost"? on what upgrades I could do to get over the hill. I have no idea if that makes sense.

frail cove
# wide stone I appreciate the question. I'm going to watch today with different styles and s...

I will say, and this could be an interesting thought for you @formal shoal , seeing Ishtae mention a starsong claid.

From a mechanical perspective - Anyone who hunts in a group is probably going to want to rethink HEAVY weapons like claids if there is a soft crit cap that goes in place.

Some weapons, especially one like that, are going to have their value/contribution completely neutered.

wide stone
pale linden
frail cove
#

That's an item that I see and cringe at how it could have been devalued with this update. That's not cheap.

opal root
#

I shared this with leafiara but since starsong is back in the topic of conversation it's a small sample size but it's really not massively different in what i saw on test last night:


General Statistics
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Metric               Group:Solo      Group:2         Group:3         Group:4         Group:5         
Total Instances      217             56              73              59              82              
Avg Damage           19.27           17.41           17.14           17.46           15.85           

Crit Rank Distribution (Count / %)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rank       Group:Prime          Group:2              Group:3              Group:4              Group:5              
Rank 1     17 (7.8%)            3 (5.4%)             6 (8.2%)             4 (6.8%)             6 (7.3%)             
Rank 2     35 (16.1%)           11 (19.6%)           15 (20.5%)           14 (23.7%)           20 (24.4%)           
Rank 3     50 (23.0%)           16 (28.6%)           22 (30.1%)           13 (22.0%)           26 (31.7%)           
Rank 4     45 (20.7%)           13 (23.2%)           15 (20.5%)           15 (25.4%)           18 (22.0%)           
Rank 5     43 (19.8%)           9 (16.1%)            9 (12.3%)            6 (10.2%)            9 (11.0%)            
Rank 6     16 (7.4%)            3 (5.4%)             4 (5.5%)             7 (11.9%)            2 (2.4%)             
Rank 7     9 (4.1%)             1 (1.8%)             2 (2.7%)             0 (0.0%)             1 (1.2%)             
Rank 8     1 (0.5%)             0 (0.0%)             0 (0.0%)             0 (0.0%)             0 (0.0%)             
Rank 9     1 (0.5%)             0 (0.0%)             0 (0.0%)             0 (0.0%)             0 (0.0%) ```
formal shoal
#

I think there's probably more to be done with the soft cap so that it becomes a point of diminishing returns instead of a randomizer.

#

I am amenable to that.

frail cove
formal shoal
#

Who's Auchand?

frail cove
formal shoal
#

I liked your accidental suggestion of just increasing the space between crit ranks, @harsh pine.

harsh pine
wide stone
harsh pine
#

After quite a few hunts and a gemstone find, need to break now, I think you are very close for me, my gear, my style, my group, and I applaud your willingness to engage. Thanks.

opal root
#

Leafiara was asking this last night in terms of flares but is the 4% change to resistance still a puncture/crush/slash resistance or is it everything?

formal shoal
#

4% resistance for physical (puncture/crush/slash) and 3% to all others.

leaden grail
#

I'll keep trying, lightweight attack, but crit limit and DF limit probably. I think my attack is about the math top for AS on this. You swing a gleaming rune-scribed maul at a cadaverous tatterdemalion ghast! AS: +847 vs DS: +259 with AvD: +39 + d100 roll: +91 = **+718** ... and hit for 343 points of damage! Lucky shot severs right hand and sends it flying. The conflagration of rage continues to burn within your soul, reinfusing you with an onslaught of unstoppable wrath! You hear a sound like a child weeping as a white glow separates itself from the tatterdemalion ghast's body and rises into the heavens.

pliant hatch
#

What's the starsong issue?

frail cove
# pliant hatch What's the starsong issue?

Less about starsong specifically. More that crit kill based weapons (super heavy) get nerfed with the new crit system.
So something like a starsong claid becomes a reallly really expensive weapon that doesn't hit very hard.

It was more an observation that folks who paid upcharges for claids on materials or scripts get hit disproportionally by the update

stable halo
#

Combo a mini boss (CreatureHero) appearance along with giving him abilities like sidebyside that boosts the creature group. If you take out the mini, the creature group looses their buff

formal shoal
#

So, the soft ceiling is different as of about 30 mins ago. Rather than randoming, it will expand the space between crit ranks by group size. I did some testing and it feels pretty solid.

harsh pine
last rampart
formal shoal
#

No.

#

Let's say, as an example, that there are 5 "points" between ranks.

#

If you have 2 players in your group, now there are 6 points between ranks.

#

If there are 4 players in your group, now there are 7 points between ranks.

#

(This is just an example.)

#

You can still hit rank 9, it just takes higher endrolls to get there.

opal root
#

If we don't like it do we send our complaints directly to jinsem (i haven't test it)

harsh pine
#

You probably need to go run your blessing lore test again. You got 0 rank 9s last time. This time it should be able to happen. I think?

last rampart
#

we need CA for players

lusty dragon
chilly zenith
#

CA for posters. The more people in an active thread the more insane memes with swears in them I am allowed to post.

lusty dragon
#

blink is ‘spensive

opal root
lusty dragon
#

Are lore flares not subject to normal flare crit caps?

harsh pine
# 
   ... and hit for 176 points of damage!
   Fast slash to the patrician vampire's neck exposes her windpipe.
   Quick anatomy lesson, anyone?
Aghast at the affront of her injury, an ashen patrician vampire's eyes narrow into black slits.  Her body erupts into silvery mist that violently churns southeast!```

Granted it might be an outlier. Great damage output. thats a lot of crit reduction hehe
#

Yeah looks like it was just randomization.

   ... and hit for 171 points of damage!
   Bloody slash to the patrician vampire's side!
   Instant death, due to lack of intestines.```
#

This feels better.

quasi skiff
#

The top one is a rank 5, it is always possible no matter the outcome even without apotheosis, though obviously a lot more likely with.
20% of the time crit randomization triggers me, every time.

harsh pine
#

For sure just the "frequency" of it feels higher. Which I think is the goal.

quasi skiff
#

what's the weapon there? short sword?

harsh pine
#

1h Spear.

quasi skiff
#

damn two slash crits with a spear? i'd be complaining more about your terrible 1/6 luck with yoru spear rofl

harsh pine
#

That is intentional. I have precision running.

chilly zenith
#

... why would you want slash over puncture?

harsh pine
quasi skiff
#

unrelated but now i just have a mental image of jinsem walking around whacking vampires with a spear wielding it like a baseball bat. Always keep them guessing.

formal shoal
#

And these are fancy vampires, so they're probably critiquing his form.

quasi skiff
#

that's why it works so well. They prepared for a classic lunge not a louisville slugger

chilly zenith
hallow trail
#

I've just done one hunt so far with the latest changes on live, but so far it's hard to even tell the difference between the damage now and the damage pre-CA. I'm sure my guys are doing less damage overall, but nothing jumps out as absurdly bad as a bunch of 1 point hits. I didn't gather any actual data before CA, or during the first round of CA, or even during this round of CA, I'm just going by "feels" at the moment.

My empath seems to be doing decent damage with 1115, instead of just a bunch of 1 and 5 point hits with maybe a 50 point hit as the final.

635/Nature's Fury seems to be doing lackluster damage sometimes, but maybe that's just 635.

formal shoal
craggy raptor
#

So all this for nothing?

frail cove
#

Except it's not nothing - just balanced back to an appropriate level, based on constructive feedback from players, here. 😆

gusty oxide
spiral frost
#

Well this sure exploded before I was awake. Give me a minute or ten…

open spindle
#

haha ya - left off sometime around 4 my time and woke up to 100+ messages

craggy raptor
harsh pine
spiral frost
# formal shoal 1) Grouping doesn't mean you want more of a challenge (and CA doesn't make the g...

"Regularly," maybe not, but let's think about why that might be the case. There are several possibilities as always, but one of them is that the demographic of players that would be most likely to group up to fight creatures that are too hard to fight otherwise are the ones with lower exp amounts. Having lower exp amounts generally means they play less, so at that point it's almost tautological that they aren't "regularly" doing it--at least not "regularly" relative to the play patterns of all players across GS. But that doesn't mean they aren't "regularly" doing it relative to the play patterns of just themselves.

spiral frost
# formal shoal I actually think that assigning Gemstones that way is obviously a much bigger be...

Wait, which way is a bigger benefit to MAers than multiple players? If you mean the current implementation of having Gemstones dropping only for the looter, then yes, it's a very massively benefit to MAers, which is why it should be changed.

But if you mean that Neovik's idea (that various others of us have also said) about letting Gemstones drop for anyone eligible in the group would be a bigger benefit to MAers than multiple players, then no, that would be completely even. The only reason I can think of to hold back is a concern that either type of group would be able to make more total silver because then the least loot capped characters could always be the ones looting. If that's it, then maybe jot that one down for implementation after whatever Wyrom does to reduce silver generation.

spiral frost
spiral frost
pale linden
craggy raptor
harsh pine
spiral frost
#

Creatures die so quickly under the new changes if I go full force, but because of the DS buffs, reducing my AS via stance to hold back doesn't work anymore! Completely rework CA again, please!

/s

lusty dragon
#

HALP, NERFD

  SMR SvD: +76 + Bonus: +102 + o100 roll: +56 == +234
Bloodstained light spills down from the heavens in an undulating deluge, bathing a heavily armored battle mastodon's form in a cascade of transcendent power!
A heavily armored battle mastodon cringes in pain.
   ... 180 points of damage!
Cast Roundtime 2 Seconds.```
formal shoal
chilly zenith
spiral frost
#

Oh, right, fair callout. Looking forward to that.

pale linden
wide stone
# spiral frost "Regularly," maybe not, but let's think about why that might be the case. There ...

I always love your observations. I would also point out here that "regularly" may be a more recent development for some (like me) than others. Lower exp also can mean that I play every bit as much as others but simply not as long. In reality, I began in 1996. However I've taken significant breaks only later to return, the most recently earlier this year. Prior to this year I'd never considered playing multiple characters at once, but now I find the crafting of group synergy to be highly entertaining. And yes... they can hunt more areas. Cheers!

formal shoal
#

I'm still evaluating CA. If it is too weak, I at least have some levers to pull.

open spindle
#

you want more data from test?

lusty dragon
#

I think everything from test is live now. And flares feel much better again 💚

spiral frost
#

I can't really tell the difference between current CA and pre-CA, in all honesty.

open spindle
#

ya that was my experience on test yesterday

spiral frost
#

Possible that some of the reason why is Shield's point from yesterday that certain AoE things might not be triggering CA.

open spindle
#

with group of 1 - 6

spiral frost
#

Also possible that some of the reason why is my characters having OP amounts of exp. So, ya know.

formal shoal
#

So kind of an easy way to tell.

spiral frost
#

Okay, in that case I think Shield is correct. Give me a second to grab a clip...

frail cove
wide stone
spiral frost
#

This is too big a clip for me to want to post, but suffice it to say that 316 open, 217 open, 1614 open, Carn's Cry all, 1219 open, 703 open, 912 open, and 410 open all don't activate CA.

I can probably find others.

pale linden
opal root
#

Open casts don't trigger it, targeted casts do. Or at least that's how it was.

spiral frost
#

Yeah. So often I've nailed creatures with eight layers of disabler before they do anything.
Edit: Actually, nine because I also have Breeze. Breeze, however, does activate CA, albeit on the first target only.

chilly zenith
#

What about 518? Everything you mentioned was warding or SMR/SSR

spiral frost
#

518 activates it.

chilly zenith
#

That makes sense. It's a resistance when being attacked. Setups/disablers not attacks?

opal root
spiral frost
#

Yes.

Seems to be open cast things that get around it by technically not having targets. So some other prime candidates to look at would be 135, 504, 1602, uh... 619... probably some others I'm not thinking of. Need to finish eating before I get back to this, though!

formal shoal
#

I'll have to see if there's some unifying entry point I can use.

versed ridge
versed ridge
frail cove
spiral frost
#

Individually, my characters are mostly pretty unoptimized, but the synergy is coordinated, so it works. 👀 Over here with my wizard who's holding a sledgehammer instead of a runestaff despite not even swinging it (and spent 275 ATPs maxing THWs, for that matter, just because I'm playing the long game and one day I hope for pures to get weapon techniques), my bard who's holding two swords and almost never swings those either because she's in robes and would never survive one hit in offensive, my baby paladin who's also in robes...

wide stone
wide stone
versed ridge
versed ridge
opal root
spiral frost
#

But if I got used to +42 bolt AS now, I'd be reluctant to let it go when pures get weapon techniques in 2027. So I must keep my 50 Ascension THW and 20 Ascension CM!

versed ridge
#

I have not tested in recent test or live today, though, where I think there is additional messaging per attack, and not just the 'deluge' messaging that triggers once.

spiral frost
#

1630 and 335 open cast don't. Volley... hmm... appears to trigger on the first target.

versed ridge
#

Sniping from hiding also did not seem to trigger it (again, old data from 3-4 days ago now on Live). This surprised me as it seems unrelated to AoE

formal shoal
#

I suspect I know why.

opal root
#

It's interesting because it doesn't seem to keep up with tonis either like I'll get the message then get a few swings in without the message and then it reappears. I'm not sure if it's actually removing it when there's no message or if it's just a text fluke

formal shoal
#

I think I've closed the gap there.

#

I wouldn't hate it if someone could confirm.

hallow trail
#

Was it fixed where someone could simply disband/leave their group before attacking and avoid CA altogether? Or is this a feature and not a bug? 😄

opal root
#

Nope. Still missing messages on some attacks in a group, unless you meant the open cast thing

formal shoal
#

Yes to open-cast.

formal shoal
formal shoal
hallow trail
formal shoal
#

How about now?

#

(I don't really know what's causing it, so my solution is a bit of a moonshot.)

hallow trail
#

If you mean the issue I am referring to, it's still happening. I'm not taking advantage of this bug, just wasn't sure if you were aware of it.

formal shoal
hallow trail
#

Yeah I just tested it with my group leader to be honest, I didn't test it with any followers.

opal root
# formal shoal Can you elaborate?

Sure here's a flurry example although it happens in other ways too but 1st attack cascade of transcendent power message, on the shield bash, first swing, 2nd swing, 3rd swing, but 4th swing which is in the next round no message basically there are gaps in when the messaging will show up, maybe that's as intended but figured I'd point it out but basically i see it on 1 second attacks:

You are beginning to feel a little fatigued.
You rotate your wrist, your vultite kunai executing a casual spin to establish your flow as you advance upon an infernal death knight!
You launch a quick bash with your kroderine greatshield at an infernal death knight!
The greatshield strikes true, but the death knight shrugs off some of the damage!
[SMR result: 206 (Open d100: 11, Bonus: 98)]
Your size slightly hinders your attack!
Your bash connects!
   ... 20 points of damage!
   Right hand slammed.  Finger broken!
   The death knight is stunned!
[SMR result: 299 (Open d100: 87, Bonus: 131)]
With fluid motion, you guide your flashing blade, slicing toward the death knight at the apex of its deadly arc!
Bloodstained light spills down from the heavens in an undulating deluge, bathing an infernal death knight's form in a cascade of transcendent power!
  AS: +637 vs DS: +375 with AvD: +28 + d100 roll: +49 = +339
   ... and hit for 55 points of damage!
   Well aimed shot, punctures calf!

 ** Your vultite kunai bursts alight with leaping tongues of holy fire! **
   Consumed by the hallowed flames, an infernal death knight is ravaged for 88 points of damage!
   ... 5 points of damage!
   Minor burns to left hand.  Ouch.
A pulsing misty green glow suffuses the vultite kunai as it absorbs some power.
Bloodstained light spills down from the heavens in an undulating deluge, bathing an infernal death knight's form in a cascade of transcendent power!
  AS: +637 vs DS: +358 with AvD: +28 + d100 roll: +23 = +330
   ... and hit for 55 points of damage!
   Strike to temple! Saved by a thick skull!
A pulsing misty green glow suffuses the vultite kunai as it absorbs some power.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
JR>
[SMR result: 249 (Open d100: 16, Bonus: 153)]
Flowing with deadly grace, you smoothly reverse the direction of your blade and slash again!
  AS: +637 vs DS: +335 with AvD: +28 + d100 roll: +10 = +340
   ... and hit for 52 points of damage!
   Nice puncture to the back, just grazed the spine!

 ** Your vultite kunai finds its mark, slicing deep into the death knight's left leg! **
   ... 5 points of damage!
   Slash to the death knight's left leg hits high!
   Kinda makes your knees weak, huh?

 ** Your vultite kunai bursts alight with leaping tongues of holy fire! **
   Consumed by the hallowed flames, an infernal death knight is ravaged for 94 points of damage!
   ... 10 points of damage!
   Burst of flames to neck chars skin.  Yuck!
You hear a sound like a child weeping as a white glow separates itself from the death knight's body and rises into the heavens.
She clutches at her armored chest.  Her flaming eyes blaze precipitously as white-hot fire erupts from her floating head, consuming it in a burst of blinding light!  The headless corpse sinks to the ground, unmoving.
An infernal death knight seems a bit less imposing.
An infernal death knight looks momentarily uneasy, but quickly recovers.
A pulsing misty green glow suffuses the vultite kunai as it absorbs some power.
The mesmerizing sway of body and blade glides to its inevitable end with one final twirl of your vultite kunai.
You watch for openings, eager to slash your enemy.
Roundtime: 1 sec.```
rose atlas
#

Group of 5:

+361
   ... and hits for 49 points of damage!

+337
   ... and hits for 38 points of damage!

+324
   ... and hits for 32 points of damage!

+245
   ... and hits for 43 points of damage!

This is okay for me. Everyone is able to hit, but their contributions are lessened without feeling insignificant.

#

Now bring back the large group challenge by increasing the resistance to groups of 6+

formal shoal
#

There is some muffling on the actual damage piece, which is why you have variations there, but it's not oppressive IMO.

#

Groups of 6+ just get auto-killed as the creature starts spamming wyrm moves.

last rampart
#

how much damage does that aura absorb? is it a set number or random percent?

leaden grail
#

A real contribution here. I'm solo and I've never seen a kai proc from battle standard for 3 before ** Cast in radiant outline, a massive silver fist closes tight around the mist-wreathed banshee! ** ... 3 points of damage! Glancing blow to the right arm leaves a trail of vapor in its wake.

lusty dragon
# 
The psychic energy surrounding a roiling crimson angargeist intensifies the attack!
  AS: +779 vs DS: +676 with AvD: +30 + d100 roll: +30 = +163
   ... and hit for 42 points of damage!
   A fine strike immobilizes the left leg for an instant.
   The crimson angargeist looks miffed.

 ** Chunks of earth violently orbit a tri-blade vethinye slasher, pelting a roiling crimson angargeist with heavy debris and stone! **
The psychic energy surrounding a roiling crimson angargeist intensifies the attack!
A roiling crimson angargeist's aura absorbs some of the damage!
   ... 20 points of damage!
   Hard blow to the right hand sends fingers flying.
   Alas, they reform soundlessly from thin air.

 ** Loose debris tears itself upward around a tri-blade vethinye slasher, spinning wildly before rocketing towards a roiling crimson angargeist! **
The psychic energy surrounding a roiling crimson angargeist intensifies the attack!
A roiling crimson angargeist's aura absorbs some of the damage!
   ... 25 points of damage!
   Massive blow strikes the crimson angargeist and drives it back!
   Good thing those ribs aren't made of bone.

 ** Your vethinye slasher bursts alight with leaping tongues of holy fire! **
   Consumed by the hallowed flames, a roiling crimson angargeist is ravaged for 71 points of damage!
The psychic energy surrounding a roiling crimson angargeist intensifies the attack!
A roiling crimson angargeist's aura absorbs some of the damage!
   ... 25 points of damage!
   The crimson angargeist's head wavers as your attack passes right through it!```
Lol, it's funny to see the two effects battling each other. Though Lash trying to crank it up, CA trying to dampen it (more amusing with my highlights, very colorfol 😆 )
hallow trail
#

Is this whole aura shield thingie something new to Moonsedge or or is it part of CA now?

formal shoal
#

It's Champion's Apotheosis.

hallow trail
#

This like a flat damage absorption shield?

formal shoal
#

Nope.

open spindle
#

Is it like a spherical damage absorption shield?

hallow trail
#

Weird. I see people talking about the aura shield earlier today and yesterday, but I just noticed it a few minutes ago. Maybe it was just on the test server until recently.

lime bison
#

Does CA buff count toward gemstones like Arcanist;s Ascendency that give bonuses based on the DS buffs to creatures?

#

If so that really raises the value of those gemstones in a group.

spiral frost
#

That's a good question. Pending the answer to that, I think my "ideal final Gemstones" list has just reverted to what it was before CA.

lime bison
#

I think probably not becaues I'm only able to activate it with creatures that can be dispelled in the room, Ghasts, Conjurer's, and vampires.

versed ridge
#

Ok, back at a keyboard and setting up for a hunt. Will test the open-cast things I saw before, unless Leafiara already confirmed they now trigger CA.

formal shoal
#

🙂

lime bison
#

It feels like since CA is a buff to creatures though it should be something those gemstones should take into account, and currently doesn't seem to be. Maybe it isn't considered a spell? It definitely is raising DS though.

rose atlas
# formal shoal 🙂 
Bloodstained light spills down from the heavens in an undulating deluge, bathing a grim gigas skald's form in a cascade of transcendent power!
You lunge forward and try to hamstring a grim gigas skald with your ghezyte harpoon!
You hear the soft tinkle of rolling dice, followed by the sound of coins dropping!
[SMR result: 74 (Open d100: 62)]
Your swing goes wide!
Roundtime: 3 sec.

Did you do something to SMR?

How are we supposed to disable things?

#

And.. blocked.

# 
Bloodstained light spills down from the heavens in an undulating deluge, bathing a niveous giant warg's form in a cascade of transcendent power!
You lunge forward and try to hamstring a niveous giant warg with your ghezyte harpoon!
[SMR result: 63 (Open d100: 66, Penalty: 1)]
Your swing goes wide!
Roundtime: 3 sec.

Group of 5. Transcend Destiny is 10.

formal shoal
#

I didn't touch SMRs.

#

Me, counting as 5 players:

[SMR result: 175 (Open d100: 92)]

gusty oxide
#

That ego, man. 🙂

formal shoal
#

🦝

rose atlas
formal shoal
#

Are you having trouble with all of your CMANs or just hamstring?

gusty oxide
formal shoal
#

Y'know, bards of a certain age...

lusty dragon
opal root
#

same... group of 2, only 1 rank of hamstring:

You lunge forward and try to hamstring an infernal death knight with your vultite trident!
[SMR result: 137 (Open d100: 46)]
Your size contributes slightly to the attack!
With a vicious strike you slash at an infernal death knight's right leg!
   ... 17 points of damage!
Light, bruising slash to the death knight's left thigh.
Roundtime: 3 sec.```
rose atlas
#

You are now in a defensive stance.

Just me doing dumb things.

lusty dragon
gusty oxide
#

I mean, for him a fork is a trident soooooooooooo

rose atlas
#

I think I need a nap. Also using cmans should automatically put you into offensive stance.

lusty dragon
#

You don't need to be in offensive for all of them, so I think that would not be well received

gusty oxide
#

You can write an alias for the ones that do tho, yeah?

I mean I know you can, cause I do... but that also means that sometimes when you do, you hit that macro too quickly after hiding and BOOM CMAN IN DEFENSIVE ANYWAY... which is just me writing lazy aliases.

rose atlas
versed ridge
#

So, observations so far as I look through my logs:

  1. Open 316 does not trigger CA
  2. Hallowed Reprisal (Paladin standard tier 2) does not trigger CA
  3. Hallowed Reprisal definitely not triggering CA... just saw a nice death crit from electricity and no absorb messaging.

I'm not sure about 335 yet as I haven't had a good setup to test that yet.

opal root
#

I can test 335 real quick

#

The one with the absorb message attacked me before i cast.

Your skin is suffused with a subtle gold glow as you pray to your patron for assistance with Divine Wrath.
Your spell is ready.
>cast
You gesture.
As you pour your soul into an appeal to Luukos, you know that you are heard.  Your skin prickles slightly all over your body, and a deep, resonant hiss echoes through your skull.

An agonized, bitter moan echoes through the area from an unseen source, and a dark emerald radiance ripples through the air around you.  The power of Luukos has answered your prayer.

Long, spectral talons materialize from midair to tear viciously at the body of a sleek black kiramon stalker!
  CS: +574 - TD: +454 + CvA: +25 + d100: +38 + Bonus: +8 == +191
  Warding failed!
   ... and hits for 38 points of damage!
A sleek black kiramon stalker's aura absorbs some of the damage!
   ... 35 points of damage!
   Strike clean through neck, what a shot!  Good form!
Light goes out of a sleek black kiramon stalker's eyes as it sinks to the ground and ceases to move.

Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>
Something stirs in the shadows.
>
 * It's a great day to be an undertaker when Magneslim comes to town.
>
A sleek black kiramon stalker is forced out of hiding.
Long, spectral talons materialize from midair to tear viciously at the body of a sleek black kiramon stalker!
  CS: +574 - TD: +454 + CvA: +25 + d100: +47 + Bonus: +8 == +200
  Warding failed!
   ... and hits for 40 points of damage!
   ... 35 points of damage!
   Strike clean through neck, what a shot!  Good form!
Light goes out of a sleek black kiramon stalker's eyes as she sinks to the ground and ceases to move.```
#

here's a cleaner cast on 2 fresh targets including a 316 open cast:

Your skin is suffused with a subtle gold glow as you pray to your patron for assistance with Censure.
Your spell is ready.
You gesture.
Speaking the words of a sacred incantation, you channel the power of divine displeasure toward those deserving of punishment.
  CS: +574 - TD: +421 + CvA: +25 + d100: +62 + Bonus: +8 == +248
  Warding failed!
A corpulent kresh ravager freezes, overwhelmed by the strength of the holy incantation.
  CS: +574 - TD: +421 + CvA: +25 + d100: +43 + Bonus: +8 == +229
  Warding failed!
A corpulent kresh ravager freezes, overwhelmed by the strength of the holy incantation.
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.
>prep 335
Your skin is suffused with a subtle gold glow as you pray to your patron for assistance with Divine Wrath.
Your spell is ready.
>cast
You gesture.
As you pour your soul into an appeal to Luukos, you know that you are heard.  Your skin prickles slightly all over your body, and a deep, resonant hiss echoes through your skull.

An agonized, bitter moan echoes through the area from an unseen source, and a dark emerald radiance ripples through the air around you.  The power of Luukos has answered your prayer.

Long, spectral talons materialize from midair to tear viciously at the body of a corpulent kresh ravager!
  CS: +574 - TD: +421 + CvA: +25 + d100: +95 + Bonus: +8 == +281
  Warding failed!
   ... and hits for 56 points of damage!
   ... 50 points of damage!
   Perfect strike to abdomen.  The kresh ravager howls in pain and drops quite dead!
With a thunderous crash, a corpulent kresh ravager falls to the ground, tiny legs kicking at the air before going still.
The ravager's paralyzed body slackens in the grip of death.

Long, spectral talons materialize from midair to tear viciously at the body of a corpulent kresh ravager!
  CS: +574 - TD: +421 + CvA: +25 + d100: +58 + Bonus: +8 == +244
  Warding failed!
   ... and hits for 48 points of damage!
   ... 45 points of damage!
   Incredible shot clean through the throat severs the spine!
With a thunderous crash, a corpulent kresh ravager falls to the ground, tiny legs kicking at the air before going still.
The ravager's paralyzed body slackens in the grip of death.

Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.```
#

also when stuff walks in midround:

>
You search the kiramon myrmidon.
It didn't carry any silver.
It had nothing of interest.
A chitinous kiramon myrmidon's exoskeleton cracks and dries, collapsing in upon itself in places.  Soon, there is naught but glittering black dust left to mark the myrmidon's passage.
>
Long, spectral talons materialize from midair to tear viciously at the body of a disfigured hive thrall!
  CS: +574 - TD: +409 + CvA: +19 + d100: +43 + Bonus: +8 == +235
  Warding failed!
   ... and hits for 47 points of damage!
   ... 46 points of damage!
   Shot shatters shoulder and severs left arm!
   The hive thrall is stunned!```
versed ridge
#

So 335 is still bypassing CA; thanks for the cleaner tests.
I also see that 316, 912, and 709 do not seem to trigger CA on their own. Maybe that's okay, as they are non damaging. [Edit: I am not 100% certain on 912 and 709, as those scrolled in my buffer, but I am pretty sure I saw the knockdowns without the deluge messaging]

#

I have a different group than before; I am trying to test if splash damage from ball spells triggers CA, but battle has been too chaotic

#

No paladin or rogue in this team (for 1630, 1614, 1604, volley, and snipe tests)

pale linden
#

hey man if i cast 335 and they just happen to step in the way of it, not our fault 😁

versed ridge
#

The Akarti can punch right through that tissue paper of CA. It's their group, not ours.
[Edit: Or, they are solo. Fits the theme!]

opal root
formal shoal
#

I see why. I don't have a good quick answer for it, but I see it.

#

I read that as "Just him and his gout."

opal root
#

too many fatty fish in his diet

gusty oxide
#

His goat has gout, and it's rude of you to bring it up.

fluid grotto
#

how much gout would a goat gout gout if... y'know what nvm

gusty oxide
#

Man, we could have a full on gout goat rodeo with the right attitude.

spark canyon
#

I’m fairing well in ME currently in a group of 6 pretty good spread really, pal, war, wiz, emp, ran and cleric all with around 16-20m exp The CA is def noticeable especially when it comes to TD and CS that is a serious challenge. However, we still emerged victorious every time. I had one close call that without emergency measures might have gone poorly. In the end… it’s a healthy boost to the mobs without being unmanageable. And the spawn boost is a nice bonus

#

I should note that the only character with mildly invested gear is myself, the rest, while still might be considered moderate gear, are not expensive pieces at all.

#

I cannot however speak for HW, I have not tried there extensively

rose atlas
#

Dying more in HW but it's still better now than it ever was.

sage owl
#

Can confirm CA in SG is difficult... but more than bearable in a group of 4.

wide stone
formal shoal
#

(Hence the "more than.")

wide stone
#

oh yes...thankfully "more than" bearable exceeds the standard that apparently exists.. short of enjoyable or fun or challenging.. but at least more than bearable. That's less than encouraging.

formal shoal
#

I dunno, I'm not hearing a lot of people complaining about it right now. If you have some specifics about what you don't like with the current iteration, please let me know.

spiral frost
#

I do want to note that Sailor's Grief might be the hardest Ascension ground currently.

wide stone
#

I will. I honestly don't have enough data to base any rational opinion on at this point. I just though the lingo was interesting. And I don't hunt in SG either knowing it is well over my abilities. By the time I get there, if I ever choose to, I hope to bear it.

spiral frost
#

So like... I don't mention this super often, but before Transcend Destiny existed, there were several parts of the Hinterwilds I absolutely wouldn't go near. And I think that's okay, to have different Ascension areas and even different parts of the same Ascension area that have wildly differing difficulties. When Transcend Destiny didn't exist, I was perfectly fine with disciples and undansormrs just being things that were out of my range.

Sometimes conversations around "Ascension hunting grounds" conflate a lot of things because people have different ideas of what they mean when they say that.

wide stone
#

I will say preliminarily that it seems the tweak to crits has helped my starsong claid perform a bit better in HW.

#

heck yeah Leafiara... having different zones with varying difficulties is a beautiful thing imo

sage owl
#

So far, in a group of 4… CA in SG hasn’t deterred me from grouping with others. (Max of 5… only because it’s weird not to share quests)

versed ridge
#

Group of 4 in Gigas: CA noticeable but not deterring me. Definitely lengthens the fights, increases the risk when adds show up. No deaths tonight, but some close calls and evacs.

#

Adding to the list of open AoE that does not trigger CA: Implosion [edit: definitely for the secondary targets. Unsure about the primary]

rose atlas
rose atlas
# spiral frost So like... I don't mention this super often, but before Transcend Destiny existe...

I'd like to see future areas designed around existing gear and against existing gear.

SG kind of went against gear with the water rooms and all the Blessing flare upgrades.

I'd like to see ascension areas that would provide an advantage if you had ... high steel, or Ice flares, or insert random material or script.

And then maybe parts of ascension areas that are anti-square where a pure might flourish. So that people have options and varying challenges.

lime bison
#

CA lite

spiral frost
#

Oh, just realized 435 is back on the table--plus 719 and 317 and probably other things I got rid of with the previous CA iteration. Time to edit everything again...

little breach
#

I think the whole organically grouped players don't group together in ascension area is a problem due to how gemstones currently drop. If people aren't playing together in ascension areas isn't that a problem?

#

just kinda resuming what was stated yesterday about actual unique players not grouping with each other in ascension and it appears to only be MAers. Maybe that's something that requires another thread though.

chilly zenith
#

I don't think there's all that much organic group hunting going on in GS in general and that's not specific to Ascension, but the way Gemstones drop does present another hurdle for those who want to do so

little breach
#

it's not that long ago that there was though. I use to group all the time.

gusty oxide
#

Prior to gemstones there was a fair amount of group hunting in HW.

little breach
#

I never really hunted my characters together until Gemstones were released.

Totally lead me down the path of a bad habit. 🤣

sage owl
#

I do organic group hunting every weekend (my weekend). I drive two hours to spend time with my RL brother who I got to return back to the lands … it’s one of the small joys/highlights after a long stressful week…

To break away and have fun with others as opposed to getting maybe a hunt in after work

#

My best weekends are full of adventures and laughs … shared with my love ones. That’s priceless to me.

formal shoal
#

I am likely to take on group loot for Gemstones as a personal project this week.

#

I think it is a QOL add.

#

Besides, I have to do some good to balance out what I'm about to do to you guys next.

#

Introducing Champion's Even Greater Apotheosis!

#

...I suck at names.

sage owl
#

😭😭😭🫠🤷🏻‍♂️

formal shoal
#

Haha.

#

No, I'm really happy with CA right now and I'm glad we kept fiddling.

chilly zenith
#

It does seem like it landed in a very reasonable place

formal shoal
#

I know there was some grousing about "testing" on live, but for some stuff, we kind of have to force feedback.

#

(Hopefully not of the "I'm quitting and I won't name my firstborn after you" variety.)

gusty oxide
#
  1. Working on group loot for gemstones would be an absolutely amazing change.
  2. Please don't be like super mean.
  3. People will always, always immediately react with "I'm quitting" when any change occurs, but if CA has shown us anything, it's that you're willing to listen and work with us... and that's huge.
  4. Please revisit 2.
craggy raptor
#

I still don't know that CA is necessary after the mongen changes, but current live compared to last week's live is at least what I expected (don't really notice a difference in a group of 2).

wide stone
formal shoal
#

That'll do it. Maybe I can convince Tsalinx.

rose atlas
formal shoal
#

Hey, no slamming my pre-Nyxus Dev bro.

#

Naijin did some really incredible work for the game. I am still kind of awed by the scope of some of his systems.

rose atlas
#

You don't argue in the same way he did. But yes, he did do some good things. Squares/Semis wouldn't be what they are now, without him. The pures are still trying to recover.

pale linden
rose atlas
#

Pures/Semis. As god intended.

formal shoal
#

If I had my druthers, pures would get spells the same way others get CMANs.

pale linden
formal shoal
#

There are so many spells in my circles I have no desire to use.

#

But that would be a colossal change.

pale linden
rose atlas
#

Just do MnM Bards. It's not as colossal.

zealous hollow
#

Focus on getting rid of the bard song system first. That's likely a huge barrier to doing anything spell related across the board. hide

formal shoal
#

Howso?

rose atlas
#

Make their spells function like every other spell.

zealous hollow
#

spellsong stuff is a nightmare

#

granted...we're all talking from not knowing the backend on how they work vs normal spells, anyways... off topic

formal shoal
#

Yeah, probably better for #mechanics.

rose atlas
#

Some are prep/cast, repeat. Some are prep/cast/stop, repeat. And they don't count as spells for blink weapons, which would be my #1 ask so I can pew pew like the rangers.

#

But I like our private corner away from the masses.

frail cove
cerulean lotus
#

As someone who isn’t one of the five players who regularly hits loot cap, I’m ok with that 😂

gusty oxide
umbral wolf
#

I use a loot command that I push out to my group that only loots if they're eligible for gemstones. It's great for finding gemstones, but I sometimes miss on their two daily LTE boosts if I don't force them to search things.

#

The other annoying thing is putting things away... Like... If I could put box in disk1, disk2, disk3 as a single command, and it'd put it into the first non-full container, that would be a godsend...

#

But only group leaders get access to all party member's disks, so your looter needs to be your leader...

#

Lots of opportunities

spark canyon
#

Just out of curiosity, what sort of ideas do you have for “group gemstones”?

#

As someone who MA’s id like to throw out there I haven’t even hit soft cap in over two years. Not all who MA are farming…

#

For some of us it’s just a play style. Dare I say it, some of us even roleplay, with ourselves

spiral frost
midnight flint
versed ridge
opal girder
spiral frost
#

I just have eloot not grab boxes, then an alias to foreach pick up the first one on the ground and another alias to attempt to shove it in each disk.

versed ridge
#

Similar solution. Only the group leader picks up boxes, whether looting or not. [Clerics and Sorcerers excepted]

versed ridge
# formal shoal I am likely to take on group loot for Gemstones as a personal project this week.

But circling back to this point... I'd love to see this. While gemstones brought [edit: a lot more] hunting to Ascension areas, which (for me) re-emphasized the benefits of grouping, I only group occasionally with one other player just due to the coordination of who loots what. The other players I would group with... we chat and assist, but don't group hunt because it's just easier that way. (Although we did group for the gemstone quest, especially for vampires, and that was fun to group with them again). Adjusting gemstones to be group looted like gigas fragments (or unlike gigas fragments: I don't care), would let us join forces into the chaotic free for all that makes for fun.

spiral frost
#

Auchand tosses out one hypothetical about learning spells like learning combat maneuvers and here I am theorycrafting about max rank Relieve Burden and finally being rid of Soul Ward.

formal shoal
#

LOL.

#

I don't see any feasible way for it to happen.

spiral frost
#

That's okay. I have to dream about the world of 2038.

#

I take it all back. There are too many utility spells that people would stop learning and it would kind of accidentally destroy the game. Like we'd basically just ditch 304 and 305 because Voln exists, for example (and 130, for that matter). Or people might stop learning 614, which would devalue 325 and 420, so then we might stop learning those too. Better for Estild's old original Spell Lores idea where lores only gave spell points to improve a spell rather than learning it.

hallow trail
#

Yesterday I said I hardly noticed any difference between doing damage now compared to before CA, but after doing more hunts I can for sure see a decrease in damage.

With my empath's Wither, if I get an endroll above 200 it's really not too different than before, sure I don't really see too many 25, 35, 50, 187 damage casts, it's more like 10, 15, 20, 117, but still pretty good.

If the endroll is around 160-170 (still pretty good, not really a "low" endroll in my opinion), I do see a bunch of 5, 10, 15, 45 damage casts, but still not nearly as bad as before when it was more like 1, 1, 5, 25.

So yeah, the damage decrease is for sure noticeable, but still better than the first iteration of CA.

Not a whole lot of "feels bad" moments of just seeing a bunch of 1's scrolling across the screen.

pale linden
spiral frost
formal shoal
pale linden
rose atlas
unborn coral
rose atlas
#

If the leader/follower searches, and everyone gets a loot roll which is then placed at their feet.

The biggest issue being that multiple treasures probably can't be placed at each persons feet.

Maybe treasure could automatically be looted into the containers set by stow set.

zealous hollow
#

If I recall doing some testing when this all rolled out, multiple things can end up going in the AT FEET slot, just as the end-user we cannot purposely put something in that spot when something else is already there. So hypothetically speaking it is possible for the game system to place individual loot in someone's AT FEET slot. But this is likely divulging from original Champion's Apotheosis thread stuff and should be spun up in its own thread.

Something like: Un-Incentivise Gollum Gemstone Farming

native sky
native sky
pale linden
#

boreal has been spicy

pale linden
native sky
sage owl
#

Did 5 man group SG last night … tough and rough but still enjoyable. Very satisfied with the current iteration of CA in small groups

#

This included a few hunts that ended in less than a pulse as well due to my party being forced to retreat

native sky
sage owl
# native sky Super high praise indeed after the frustration you expressed earlier!

I felt like small groups were adversely affected and subtracted any incentive to hunt together outside of friends.

Everyone plays GS for different reasons, many would argue that RP is the main reason… I stay and play because the friends I have made here and… I think hunting is incredibly fun (with challenges)

So hunting with friends in challenging areas is usually the best of times for me.

If you want to go fast, go alone.
If you want to go far, go together.

versed ridge
#

I can agree with the meme style quotes at the end, but I wouldn't describe small groups affected "adversely" compared to larger groups.
IMO, the greatest disincentive to hunting with friends in Ascension is the jewel loot mechanics, and we have hope here.

#

My groups of 4 with various professions and strength see the effect, and I have needed to sym return/130 a few times as the battle started to get out of hand... but the difficulty increase is neither punishing nor insta-crit-kill due to massive AS increase.
The combat effectiveness of my primary characters (with some levels of enhancive set) and the secondary ones (badge only, and some weren't useing that) is also apparent. I again need to up my game with planning-aka-dont-be-lazy-with-badges-and-small-statues.

spiral frost
# native sky Out of curiosity were those areas/creatures that were "out of range" before TD o...

I was strictly talking about Leafi in what you're replying to. "Out of range" is probably a bit much as a descriptor. I could hunt disciples and undansormrs before Transcend Destiny, but it wasn't worth doing because the undansormrs took several times longer to kill than anything else and the disciples were hundreds of times more likely to kill me than everything else combined, but obviously the rewards weren't commensurately better in either case. The rewards were (and still are) actually worse in the case of undansormrs since they have no loot besides skins, which at the time were only about 133% as valuable as valravn skins--but valravns drop boxes and gems.

What was out of range before Transcend Destiny, not for Leafi but for other characters, was disirs. The requirement to avoid sheer fear from max level disirs in the Hinterwilds is effective level 109. Symbol of Courage and S5 armor only brings a character to 108. Clerics, empaths, and paladins know sheer fear protection spells, so I could bring them in anytime, but anything else needed to either Sanctify up and use a shield (hate it), Sanctify up and use a runestaff (also hate it, but less so because at least it adds CS), use Bravery as an imbed (don't hate it, but it gets old really quick maintaining a ginormous supply of ranger rods because they don't hold that many charges of an 11-mana spell), or bring lichbane talismans (what I actually ended up doing because it was the least of the evils, but it too is cumbersome).

tl;dr: I get why people wildly overhunt the Boreal Forest, Eldurhaart, and Ojandhaart even though Fjallarhaart is massively richer and not even much more difficult. (The Pits or Spirit Walk are also massively richer, but are more difficult. This all assumes that by "difficult" we mean "higher exp/gear requirements to achieve comparable kill speeds." Wouldn't be my definition, but TTK seems to be important in dev's modus operandi.)

wide stone
#

I'm just happy to kill more than kills me. Watching folks "wildly overhunt" the Boreal Forest is part of why I pointed out that exp is more important (powerful) than gear... @formal shoal disagreed with me but I stand by it. A 50m exp character hunting with bland gear will outperform my 9m exp with great gear almost every time that I can see. As they should.

spiral frost
#

I mean, it depends. Gear could overcome that gap, but at that point it's not just great gear, but best of the best gear. Using a pure as an example because that's the most expensive thing to close the gap with, someone could spend 1m bloodscrip for SK 515, 6m bloodscrip for max spellbook enhancives in three circles, 400k raikhen for greater surita, 460k bloodscrip for adding and fully upgrading a sigil staff, 150k bloodscrip for enchanting potions to +50 on armor and runestaff, and 2.75m bloodscrip for +75 on the armor and runestaff.

Stacking all of that would make up the gap of 0 Dodging, fewer lores, no Transcend Destiny, probably not even 3x spells yet at 9m exp, etc. with some pretty directly comparable buffs via gear. The one major missing piece that's not as translatable would be the SMR defense (since it's not just 0 Dodging, but not yet 2x Perception and 1x CM), but that's kind of what SK 515 is for--compensating the poor defense with much faster and superior offense.

wide stone
prisma flame
#

I would subscribe to a Leafiara makeover segment

spiral frost
#

I occasionally have done makeovers! i.e. someone DMing me to figure out how to make the best of some ludicrous amount of bloodscrip they want to spend.

prisma flame
#

it's less fun if it's private

#

but also, fair

lusty dragon
#

I don't feel like CA changed the viability of how I play at any iteration. Things are definitely a bit slower now, and general risk level has risen, but all still within tolerable thresholds. But I'm okay with a supercharged draugr occasionally cleaving a head off. But I do think that broadly speaking my squad is "ascension ready" in terms of overall EXP/gear. I think it landed in a good place. Cheers to Auchand to having an effective and open-minded feedback loop, made a huge difference.

wide stone
#

I only lack the 2.75m BS to take my armor and staff to +75 and then the SK 515 and max spellbook enhansives

wide stone
sage owl
pale linden
harsh pine
# 
[SMR result: 171 (Open d100: 169, Penalty: 3)]
Vile claws slash at you, their touch burning with otherworldly cold!
Your hemp bracelet pulses briefly, deflecting some of the freezing damage!  The bracelet glints one last time, then grows dim.
   ... 20 points of damage!
   You stagger as the icy attack shatters your left leg.
   You are knocked to the ground!
   You are stunned for 4 rounds!
One of the shadowed limbs pulls you close to the rift!
   ... 65 points of damage!
   Chest decompresses violently and explodes in a shower of bone and lung!```

How can we go about getting a CA buff for ourselves. 0 deaths pre-mob gen in about 1.5 years. 5 in a week due to this! DR hess+CA certs.
spiral frost
#

The buff is +1000 exp for getting raised by a cleric or paladin!

harsh pine
spiral frost
#

I mean... I'm serious. Every time my sanct machine cleric dies I'm like "awesome, that saves me about half an hour of playing this character for Sanctify resources."

harsh pine
#

To clarify. My paladin resources are pretty much not in demand.

unborn coral
harsh pine
spiral frost
#

I did almost exclusively bandits for over half a decade and didn't really find invincibility boring, but I might be an exception. 👀

frail cove
spiral frost
#

Lack of progression would bore me, though, but Ascension training has centuries worth of content on that front.

harsh pine
unborn coral
harsh pine
spiral frost
#

They need more Elite Ascension skills so I can talk myself out of a goal of having Porter maxed on two characters by end of 2026 and another five by end of 2027.

harsh pine
spiral frost
#

I peered into the abyss by doing the math of how much more I could collectively carry across all characters if I maxed Strength and Porter, and now I can't stop thinking about coming back from an hour-long hunt with 150 boxes. 👀

elder heart
#

how many 200+ containers do you have?! 🤯 i think my max is around 60

spiral frost
#

I only have three individual 200 capacity containers, but my characters range from 230-500 pounds across all their containers, averaging at 332. A lot of them don't have backpacks and are dragging down the average that way, though, so that's where I'd just start getting more 140 containers if I had more Strength and more Porter.

Edit: That's also why I was advertising buying past years' RW Tourney Containers earlier this year... futureproofing and wanting more backpack slots filled. 👀

elder heart
#

haha well with all the notes you can get from the lumnis ring stuff, making your own 200lb bag is super easy

harsh pine
elder heart
#

i'm too poor 🙁

opal root
#

I neglect my alts but reading leafiara treat her alts like real brokies and not even giving them backpacks makes me feel better about my levels of neglect

spiral frost
#

Well, I didn't need more carrying capacity when I was just farming bandits endlessly... but now I do! 😂

elder heart
#

how does a boh work with boxes? does it matter what the contents of the box are? or will it stack anything thats a "strongbox" etc

unborn coral
lusty dragon
spiral frost
unborn coral
#

I want to pick my own boxes.... not sure it's worth leveling a rogue to 100 just to pick my own boxes... or is it.

elder heart
#

of course it is. you also can sell your rogue resources

opal root
#

Did we change course on CA for the wyrm?

**Bloodstained light spills down from the heavens in an undulating deluge, bathing a silver-scaled cold wyrm's form in a cascade of transcendent power!**
Glacial hues course down a silver-scaled cold wyrm's scales and she throws her head back, releasing a wave of frigid energy that races outward in a crackling torrent!```

```You gesture at a silver-scaled cold wyrm.
Particles of dust and soot rise from the ground at your feet as you release a pulsating, platinum ripple of energy toward a silver-scaled cold wyrm!
  CS: +614 - TD: +545 + CvA: +25 + d100: +19 + Bonus: +8 == +121
  Warding failed!
  The cold wyrm is cloaked in a blinding platinum light and assailed for 69 points of damage!
   ... 5 points of damage!
   Searing strike to back causes the cold wyrm to grunt in pain.
**A silver-scaled cold wyrm's aura absorbs some of the damage!**
   ... 10 points of damage!
   Blistering strike to leg shrivels skin and causes excruciating pain.
   ... 10 points of damage!
   Strike pierces thigh!

 ** Jagged sparks dance along your open palms, lashing out at a silver-scaled cold wyrm in a crackling surge!  Your resolve feels bolstered as the energy courses through you! **
   ... 10 points of damage!
   Heavy spark to right eye causes tears and redness.```
rose atlas
#

Quit picking on that poor little wyrm! Maybe Auchand thought you guys were getting too good at killing it.

opal root
#

It's possible! If that's the result I'm not mad at it I was just surprised to see it

gusty oxide
#

Also ❤️ u, but imma go buy a shovel twice your height.

formal shoal
#

The only thing they have in common is pitchforks.

#

And no, I'll have a cutout for the wyrm and sybil.

fluid grotto
#

(Me, too tired from staying up late farming): why is Auchand talking about getting cardboard cutouts for the wyrm and sybil, that is a weird decor choice, props for the dedication tho

#

(I eventually figured it out)

gusty oxide
#

New ability, gives the wyrm a chance to sneak attack from behind.

frail cove
#

Im still waiting for the ultra rare red idol that summons a red wyrm that's level 150 or something absurd.

When killed, it gives 25k Field EXP

gusty oxide
#

... or bring back the ghost ring bug and let us fight 10 wyrms at once!

opal root
#

<insert 10 wyrms falling on riend>

gusty oxide
#

I mean, it's the only realistic outcome.

lusty dragon
#

Roundtime: 1929349 seconds

gusty oxide
#

What do you meaaaaaaaaan, that happens now! (well it feels like it does)

opal root
gusty oxide
#

Such a nerf crying

gusty oxide
# 
  AS: +1006 vs DS: +711 with AvD: +24 + d100 roll: +94 = +413
   ... and hits for 84 points of damage!```

That wyrm CA 😆
chilly zenith
#

That seems excessive

gusty oxide
#

There were... 6 of us?

#

But it was going really well until that point 🙂

lusty dragon
#

My baby paladin actually landed a whole hit, and didn't die! 😆

Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a silver-scaled cold wyrm.
Bands of spectral mist ripple and surge beneath a silver-scaled cold wyrm!
[SMR result: 115 (Open d100: 13, Bonus: 125)]
   ... 10 points of damage!
   Jarring blow to the cold wyrm's shield arm.

 ** Your rhimar tomahawk surges with power as gold and topaz radiance coalesces around it! **
   ... 10 points of damage!
   Heavy spark to left arm.  Gonna hurt tomorrow.
Cast Roundtime 2 Seconds.```
quasi skiff
gusty oxide
#

LISTEN HERE.

#

I don't even know how my DS was that high in offensive LEL.

sage owl
#

Yall gonna hate me … but CA could be tweaked to half a percent harder for groups. 🤣

Or the reverse psychology of being wiped every few minutes of the last iteration of CA PTSD is still with me

Seriously tho, 3-6 group in SG has been super enjoyable.

wide stone
formal shoal
#

It's getting hard to track all these threads!

wide stone
#

not a request just curious where that conversation will continue or if it will continue... I'm not very bright and need a map most days

native sky
spiral frost
# 
Bloodstained light spills down from the heavens in an undulating deluge, bathing a withered shadow-cloaked draugr's form in a cascade of transcendent power!
A ghost of rage twists a withered shadow-cloaked draugr's decaying features!
Icy rage shining in her eyes, a withered shadow-cloaked draugr lowers one shoulder and barrels toward you!
  AS: +907 vs DS: +922 with AvD: +41 + d100 roll: +78 = +104
   ... and hits for 1 point of damage!
   Tickled your back muscles.  Minor lumbago.

 ** Your sky blue cuirass emits a searing bolt of lightning at the shadow-cloaked draugr! **
A withered shadow-cloaked draugr's aura absorbs some of the damage!
   ... 5 points of damage!
   Mild electric jolt sends the shadow-cloaked draugr into spasms.
   The shadow-cloaked draugr is stunned!```
You know, if nothing else, CA has improved my armor flares or resistances.
lusty dragon
#

Decided to give the Hive a crack again for the first time since CA - i predict a few deaths in my future

spiral frost
#

Just did a group hunt (not MA hunt) of 7 in the Hive. We kinda just rolled right through for over an hour with two warriors, two clerics, two rangers, and an empath. Only one death. And one of the rangers isn't even capped, but level 97.

Great party composition for the Hive, though, admittedly. I think it probably would have gone uglier with a wizard or sorc, or possibly bard... but everyone could take even a CA-boosted DS pushdown stalker hit. Grizzled CA-boosted broodtender did take a noticeable amount of effort to finally take down, though!

spark canyon
#

Poor Tearie…

open spindle
#

got out of the loop in CA - is there anything with CA which would affect solo hunting?

opal root
#

Nope

open spindle
#

sweet thanks

opal root
#

So it looks like grabbing a dead body does create a group for CA purposes. Could be risky for some rescuers which probably makes sense in ascension but its something to be aware of

A complex pattern of fiery orange energy flashes briefly into existence between you and a sleek black kiramon stalker, deflecting the assault entirely.
R>
A sleek black kiramon stalker aims a preternaturally swift bite at you!
  AS: +572 vs DS: +840 with AvD: +32 + d100 roll: +85 = -151
   A clean miss.
R>ho body
You reach down and tenderly cradle Deader's lifeless hand in yours.
>
Bloodstained light spills down from the heavens in an undulating deluge, bathing a sleek black kiramon stalker's form in a cascade of transcendent power!
A sleek black kiramon stalker skitters mercilessly forward to slash at you with a razor-sharp foreleg!
  AS: +599 vs DS: +840 with AvD: +35 + d100 roll: +81 = -125
   A clean miss.
>sym of return
Your surroundings blur into a white fog . . .```
versed ridge
#

* Auchand just got iced in the Hinterwilds!
CA tuning in-progress?

floral marsh
#

lol was just about to post that

formal shoal
#

Hah.

#

Actually, checking out something on the banks of the Issenflow.

versed ridge
#

My second guess was a mutated farm locust, but I'm in Prime, not Test.

formal shoal
#

writes something down

floral marsh
#

I think you had said somewhere Auch that you might take a look at loot distribution I believe for groups around gemstones, would that still be a possibility?

formal shoal
#

Yes.

thick crane
#

FYI It appears that CA is proccing in Talon Isle when hunting alone. I am not grouped during proc, and it procs about 1% of the time. Can provide logs upon request, but it's clearly proccing CA. Unless there is a rogue or hidden GM following me around, I think something is curious about the CA procs in this area.

I got 16 procs yesterday after a fairly long hunting session. I have seven procs today after eight hours of non-continuous hunting.

Times shown are Pacific cause west coast is the best coast.

Most recent death where I was briefly grouped:
[2025-12-04 T20:31] It seems you have died, my friend. Although you cannot do anything, you are keenly aware of what is going on around you...

Most recent occurrence:
[2025-12-04 T21:27] Bloodstained light spills down from the heavens in an undulating deluge, bathing a fulminating stormborn primordial's form in a cascade of transcendent power!

opal root
#

I wonder if it's someone engaging the primordial before you come upon it. I had a similar thing in the Hive where I confirmed that Morvik was solo hunting, I was solo as well but when I passed through his room on a rescue bounty it triggered CA despite us not grouping.

[Kresh Warrens, Breached Hollow - 34171 - 34171] (u13041101)
Broad and vaguely ovoid, an unnatural hollow opens within the mottled stone to form a chamber with furrowed walls.  Tunnel mouths gape at irregularly spaced intervals, their recesses cast in shadow by the pulsing emanations of an amber-hued barrier stretched taut across a ragged crevice in the chamber's wall.  You also see a green garnet, a corpulent kresh ravager (dead), a star sapphire, a disfigured hive thrall (rooted) and a corpulent kresh ravager (dead).
Also here: Morvik
Obvious exits: north, east, southeast, southwest
Your glacier spirit followed.
>
Bloodstained light spills down from the heavens in an undulating deluge, bathing a disfigured hive thrall's form in a cascade of transcendent power!
>
A young dwarven child arrives, following you.```
native sky
#

Hmm....I thought CA was supposed to be limited to Ascension areas? Just getting hit with it in the Atoll

# 
A triton warlock (PKN) points a single golden nail toward you!
  CS: +426 - TD: +387 + CvA: -6 + d100: +43 - +15 == +61
  Warded off!```
zealous hollow
#

That's not CA.

zealous hollow
# native sky Hmm....I thought CA was supposed to be limited to Ascension areas? Just getting ... 
Arcane insight suffuses a triton warlock (PKN) as a wash of nameless color spreads through her aura.

That is normal buff mechanic of those creatures in Atoll. Been around for years. The actual CA messaging is:

Bloodstained light spills down from the heavens in an undulating deluge, bathing a sleek black kiramon stalker's form in a cascade of transcendent power!

sub the creature name of course.

#

Funny enough... you posted a similar attack in 2/2025. No clue what that buff actually is called, but it's been around for a long time

image.png
native sky
#

Oh weird. Haha. Thanks!

thick crane
native sky
versed ridge
#

I think they are considered part of your group…. I think 911 will hit them and 1608 protects them.

opal root
versed ridge
#

Doesnt matter. CA can trigger if they engage you. Maybe “engage” here as a prep or silent messaging contemplation on about to attack you.

limpid kestrel
formal shoal
#

Yay.

little breach
#

anyone notice that bonespear spawns seem to not be using the new system? or is it just me? seems like a lot of wandering around to find nothing for a bit

spark canyon
#

Bonespear isn’t ascension is it?

chilly zenith
#

I think Neovik may have meant to post about Bonespear in the spawn rates thread

spark canyon
#

Ohhh that makes sense my bad

little breach
native sky
#

Hmm...is this aura absorbing damage CA kicking in?

Your kroderine buckler flashes toward a bloody halfling cannibal (QMD)!
[SMR result: 224 (Open d100: 38, Bonus: 90)]
   ... 57 points of damage!
   ... 25 points of damage!
   Strong blow to chest!
A monstrous, too-wide smile spreads across the cannibal's (QMD) face as she collapses to the ground, dead.
Your kroderine buckler ricochets off the halfling cannibal (QMD) and flashes toward an immense gold-bristled hinterboar (BTG)!
[SMR result: 212 (Open d100: 20, Bonus: 116)]
   ... 50 points of damage!
An immense gold-bristled hinterboar's (BTG) aura absorbs some of the damage!
   ... 20 points of damage!
   Good blow to back!
   The gold-bristled hinterboar (BTG) is stunned!
An immense gold-bristled hinterboar's (BTG) aura absorbs some of the damage!
   ... 20 points of damage!
   Footing lost!  The gold-bristled hinterboar (BTG) wrenches back trying to stay upright.
Your kroderine buckler rebounds back to you but you miss the catch and deflect it to the ground.

With a sigh, you retrieve it.```
#

Cause if so - I dont' get it. I was solo and hadn't been part of a group at anypoint.

opal root
#

In a similar vein to some of the other posts I just had a group come and stand in the room I was hunting in as a solo hunter it seems like they were waiting for someone before fogging out and all of my creatures got hit with the CA buffs. It was only 2 people so not the end of the world but if it had been a larger group it would have been rough.

formal shoal
#

Once we're through some of the bigger stuff we're doing right now, I'll be refocusing on this and some other pickup work.

slim anchor
#

I miss any new news regarding the changes or just a bunch of ascension talk and getting rid of certain items to make playing harder i.e. getting rid of survivalist kits to seek out empaths ideas etc?

chilly zenith
#

Wrong thread bud

slim anchor
serene peak
formal shoal
#

You'll know it when I do it. I did take a look at it, but the Deck of Many Priorities shuffles a lot.

frail cove
#

I heard a rumor this was going to be prioritized BELOW the area wide Sword Hymn Buff (meaning anytme it's played, it's active for everyone in the area, regardless of whether they were there the moment it was played)

Right? Right?

gusty oxide
#

Onslaughts -> Farms -> Gemstones -> Hymn fix.

formal shoal
frail cove
limpid kestrel
#

you promptu'd him though, its very promptu

wide stone
wide stone
chilly zenith
#

It would be sweet if other groups triggering CA wouldn't result in solo players then facing mobs with the CA aura, but I still see it happening.

wide stone
shadow flare
#

CA seems to be getting applied in Sailor's Grief when i'm hunting solo, but only on golems, and only when i cast Torment (718): You feel a dark force lash out at a kelp-tangled coral golem! CS: +604 - TD: +482 + CvA: +25 + d125: +4 + Bonus: +2 == +153 Warding failed! A kelp-tangled coral golem is engulfed in an eerie, dark haze! It flinches in pain! A kelp-tangled coral golem's aura absorbs some of the damage! ... 1 point of damage! Deft slash across chest draws blood! The coral golem takes a deep breath.

is this intended?

lusty dragon
#

I wonder if torment is actually counting as an extra creature, that'd be funny

fluid grotto
#

Missoni got too powerful, now she's her own group

hollow flax
#

My guess is there was another group on the area that had recently attacked it and the aura was still active when you got to it.

shadow flare
#

i was the only one up there on the seat today, and it's been happening consistently. i waited to mention it because i had that same thought. eta: i've also seen it happen on fresh spawns.

midnight flint
elder heart
# 
You glare malevolently at a kelp-tangled coral golem.
  CS: +544 - TD: +507 + CvA: +25 + d110: +91 == +153
  Warding failed!
You feel a dark force suddenly summoned between you and a kelp-tangled coral golem.
A kelp-tangled coral golem is engulfed in an eerie, dark haze!
It flinches in pain!
A kelp-tangled coral golem's aura absorbs some of the damage!
   ... 5 points of damage!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.```

can confirm, getting the same issue with golems.  this is my sorc solo
formal shoal
#

Hmm.

wide stone
formal shoal
#

It is.

wind sand
#

is there anyway to know if mobs are buffed by CA if go into a room without a group?

feels like im running into overturned mobs when im soloing and way more often during peak hours

lusty dragon
#

When you attack a mob with CA, this message will appear right before the attack attempt:
Bloodstained light spills down from the heavens in an undulating deluge, bathing a heavily armored battle mastodon's form in a cascade of transcendent power!