#[Official] Ascension Boss Fights

1 messages · Page 2 of 1

half locust
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I still have one

stiff oar
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2/5!

spark jasper
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happy to join and help if ye guys want it

obsidian pulsar
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I can come

stiff oar
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4/5!

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Another caster would be good... a ranger or webber

spark jasper
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i run a t5 dispel handaxe with flare affinity.... so lots of dispelling here

stiff oar
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I know, but some extra SMR reduction would be nice

half locust
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I can cast web, but not trained with SA.

obsidian pulsar
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I hit hard

ebon flame
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I can help Whirlin if ya want a sorcerer: 703 118 417 and 3x dispel wand

stiff oar
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and... no credit because it ran off before dying

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So, guess I need to do it more... again...

ebon flame
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did someone leave the area or log?

stiff oar
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no, clouds were cast, so it was running around

half locust
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Yeah.... not sure I am in full agreement with the "being in the same room" mechanic while it also runs around

stiff oar
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especially with a battleground

half locust
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Thanks for the group! Sorry that's 2/2 misses for you, Whirlin. No bugs this time, though?

minor locust
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I think the expectation that players may have to send 1 or more group members out of the room to dispel gates is at odds with requiring the players to be in the room when the sybil dies

stiff oar
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especially with the damage requirement, getting kill credit, max pt of 5, etc.

ebon flame
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how do gates appear? does she cast them or are they just random?

minor locust
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and the summoning requirement after your freebie. it can take a long time to farm those items.

stiff oar
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over time, there's a big monsterbold message that pops up, but can still be difficult to see due if you have some flarestonier folks

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My free entry was burned on a bug, this was someone else's free entry. so I'm at -2

obsidian pulsar
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Thanks for including me Whirlin. Well done all. She's tough

subtle cedar
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Do any of the poisons work on the Sybil, like the clumsy, SMR reduction one etc..? I didnt have any on my staff when I tried

half locust
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FWIW, there were clouds in the room on our run. I'm not sure who cast them: us or the sybil.

main ginkgo
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I very much appreciate the lockboxes and saturates from the bosses, great adds.

half locust
# 
Mist crawls and seethes along the ground, writhing like a thing alive.  The eddies of
  impenetrable fog conceal the ground underfoot, but here and there are glimpses of
  pocked stone etched with a pattern of interlocking wings.  A vast ebon ~archway~
  rises out of the surrounding mists, unimaginably black and towering in scope.  So
  dark is the smooth stone of its construction that its edges and features are
  difficult to discern.  You also see a dark cloud and a dark cloud.
Obvious paths: north, northeast, east, southeast, south, southwest, west, northwest
>
A cinereous chthonian sybil glides in on a current of air, settling so that her feet
  drift over the ground.
[bossfight]>sigil of minor protection
As you concentrate on your sigil, you become slightly more aware of weak spots in your
  defenses.
>
Heat rises from the ground near a cinereous chthonian sybil, causing a brief swelter.
>
You hear a loud caterwaul as Geijon comes running in chasing a cinereous chthonian
  sybil!
Geijon assaults a cinereous chthonian sybil with an unrelenting fury!
Geijon swings a gleaming rune-scribed maul at a cinereous chthonian sybil!
A swirling ashen barrier around a cinereous chthonian sybil deflects the attack.

That was the killing blow; I received credit very much by luck, and you (Whirlin) missed it by half a second as we moved rooms back and forth.

ocean horizon
onyx jewel
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We just had it vanish while fighting it. >wither A cinereous chthonian sybil sublimates into a thick grey mist that seethes free from the webs, which collapse behind her as she rematerializes. The webs dissolve from around a cinereous chthonian sybil. Nimbly, the chthonian sybil's fingers dance, reestablishing the wards flickering in the air around her. Moving forward, a cinereous chthonian sybil gets too close to the rippling, sticky web! The evanescent shield shrouding a cinereous chthonian sybil flares to life and thickens to create a substantial buffer around her. [SMR result: 0 (Open d100: -34, Bonus: 18)] The web turns away harmlessly from a cinereous chthonian sybil. With a slight gesture from one bony hand, a cinereous chthonian sybil rises and glides southwest on a current of air. When we went southwest, it was gone. Someone got a lockbox, I think, but the person we came from can't INFUSE their gemstone.

stiff oar
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This time, everyone died, but Brute got raised, and Sybil didn't reappear...

onyx jewel
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We tried again, we all died during the phase change, but we weren't raised.. and it kicked everyone out. And then decayed super fast, with moderate death sting. 👀

acoustic cape
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yeah they all just vanished, it's just me and the sybil in there

prisma crane
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Did you have a full team? Do you all want to make another run at it?

acoustic cape
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yeah we did, I'm keeping it open for a bit in case they can still come back in to finish it

# 
Mist crawls and seethes along the ground, writhing like a thing alive.  The eddies of impenetrable fog conceal the ground underfoot, but here and there are glimpses of pocked stone etched with a pattern of interlocking wings.  A vast ebon archway rises out of the surrounding mists, unimaginably black and towering in scope.  So dark is the smooth stone of its construction that its edges and features are difficult to discern.  You also see a cinereous chthonian sybil.
Obvious paths: north, northeast, east, southeast, south, southwest, west, northwest```
acoustic cape
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that was different

prisma crane
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Success?

acoustic cape
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yep, they were able to come back in and finish

stiff oar
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sorry, was sending the logs of you breaking everything

onyx jewel
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It did it again.. when I died along with the phase change, it immediately kicked me out of the archway.

valid saddle
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Just now?

onyx jewel
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Yes, although a player showed up and moved me to town. ```J>wither
The earth rumbles threateningly from somewhere deep below Brute.
Brute gestures at a cinereous chthonian sybil.
Brute's asaya glows intensely with a verdant light!
Particles of dust and soot rise from the ground at Brute's feet as he releases a pulsating, platinum ripple of energy toward a cinereous chthonian sybil!
CS: +683 - TD: +521 + CvA: +25 + d125: +67 == +254
Warding failed!
The chthonian sybil is cloaked in a blinding platinum light and assailed for 201 points of damage!

A cinereous chthonian sybil breaks her eerie silence with a wail of torment that peals through the dimness. Rage twists her face and light flickers threateningly in her luminous eyes as she raises one fleshless hand.

A terrible chill tugs at your heart as a pulsing, glowing point forms at the center of your chest. Your heart pounds pathetically, sounding like thunder in your ears, before it abruptly ceases to beat!

As life leaves your body, the tenebrous gloom around you grows insubstantial, spiraling away in a wash of blackness darker than a raven's wings. You find yourself lying on cold, hard ground.
[Angargreft, Pits of the Dead - 30082] (u7503444)
Stark against the ruddy rock comprising the walls and floor, an archway of lightless black stone dominates the northern wall at the corridor's dead end. Steps ascend to the archway, parting around a slick black stone altar. The walls to either side are painted with patterns of golden wings, the pigments enhanced with metal powder that makes the artwork glitter strangely. You also see some tattered cloth.
Obvious exits: southwest```

acoustic cape
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from our perspective, the 3 of us never died, we just never had a round 1, we killed sybil as if it was round 2 from the start and all was normal after

onyx jewel
acoustic cape
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hmm

ebon flame
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Tranquia took one for the team!

acoustic cape
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come on, now I got kicked out on death

valid saddle
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Okay, sybil's back to functioning.

ebon flame
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i like a civil sybil

valid saddle
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Some notes, though.

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She will cast Mortal Tether more frequently now, and Anima Cascade will prevent most damage from being done to her while it's active.

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In short, players will have to deal with mechanics!

ebon flame
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What's Mortal Tether? Are the triple dispel wands effective on her?

summer dove
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Scary.

prisma crane
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She cuts the string. You die. RIP

ebon flame
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what exactly is the sybil anyway? Some kinda Fate?

prisma crane
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That seems to be her theme, but we do know that she's an ancient evil of the Hinterwilds, one likely reawakened when Zeban and crew started playing around with trying to harness the power of the gemstones.

half locust
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So... regarding Mortal Tether and being cast more often... the part that insta kills and rezzes everyone that's been rather buggy: there will be more of that?

prisma crane
half locust
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I didn't realize that could happen more than once. What is the mechanics to deal with? Leave the room?

prisma crane
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Not, Oops! Mortal Tether - ||```A cinereous chthonian sybil extends a withered hand, drawing an ethereal golden thread from within your chest before snapping it with a twist of her wrist. The thread wafts away in a puff of aureate mist.

It seems you have died, my friend. Although you cannot do anything, you are keenly aware of what is going on around you...

You mentally give a sigh of relief as you remember that the Goddess Lorminstra owes you a favor.

...departing in 13 mins...

valid saddle
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Nope.

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Mortal Tether is the one that makes you unable to hit her.

valid saddle
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She, the disir, and Gosaena are all intertwined!

prisma crane
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Ah! Hrm. I still need to dig through my logs for the new sybil. I've been mostly "point me in the direction and try to damage it" mode.

valid saddle
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There was definitely some inspiration from the Fates, though.

ebon flame
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I see some mention of Sybil in Greek prophets and Norse myth witches kinda sorta... vague. But she's got wings so maybe some cursed Fate.

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maybe she tried to usurp Gosaena's domain and got smacked down and cursed heh

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but she's not undead but disir are... but they raise us so are they good or just using us for their own goals? so confusing!

prisma crane
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I get the sense that she is the counter to the disir. Like two side of the scale, redemption and destruction. I just don't think I've pieced together enough information to feel overly confident in how they relate to death. Other than the disir are, when not driven mad, protectors. But there's all sorts of tidbits of lore I haven't fit together in the large puzzle and don't know how they all tie together... the wyrm-faced man (who I think maybe related to the wyrm-winged man seen on one tapestry in the burrows). There's a story there, and every little bit we find out starts to lace it together.

ebon flame
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you giving tours? I'll buy a ticket 😄

prisma crane
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I can run you down there anytime to see it if you want! It's just west of the desecrated statue. But I've tried to put together as much as I can about the lore based on the environs. There's a lot of detail there, and an obvious story. The quest has given us a bunch more to fit those pieces togther. I plan on spending some time this week doing just that.

half locust
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Are there any guides yet to the Wyrm and Sybil with what's been learned? Spells that are effective, spells that aren't, etc? I realize that characters play their professions very differently, but some wisdom on what spells or techniques do and don't work would help players put together a strategy for their character.

prisma crane
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I don't think so. There is Leafiara's quest guide, but as far as the quest boss monsters, I don't think so. Hoping to start updating the wyrm wiki page soonish, but that's a ton of logs to dig through from this past weekend. May take a bit.

ebon flame
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prevent her from casting, dispel her frequently, DPS go brrrrr is all I know

prisma crane
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Heheh, literally everything I know about magic, I know because of trying to figure out wyrm hunting tactics with casters. Lots I still don't know, but my knowledge before that was laughably nil.

ebon flame
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web, moonbeam, spikethorn, corrupt essense, interference, sounds, (digging thru logs with Leafiara's advice on the sybil)

half locust
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Example: I heard 412 works well, as does curse and elem sat to bring down AS, DS, and TD. Same with 212.
Web helps a lot once landed.. but on my paladin, I noticed that pious trial (slow effect) seems to be ignored by the Wyrm

valid saddle
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Nyxus reminded me that Rapidfire was a thing today.

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😊

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Or, as this warmage refers to it, "Celerity for Spells."

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Spellerity?

half locust
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I don't recall if 1614 (to lower EBP) could have connected for the Wyrm

woeful lodge
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Anyone offhand have the messaging for finding gemstones? I apparently found one and had no idea ><

I know it was posted at one point, but trying to search for anything in discord makes me want to stab myself in the eye, twice

ocean horizon
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#gemstones message
That's my sybil advice.

shadow palm
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Rapid fire is definitely something I made use of in this quest

ocean horizon
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I should probably do an update to also say non-utility sybil plans. Let me tell you, UC monks who can actually tier up against the sybil wreak havoc. You need Transcend Destiny and/or Ki Focus spam to pull it off, though, but my level 108 monk just has gear with lightning flares and Animalistic Spirit flares and completely decimates the sybil.

Like... my top 4 damage dealers out of my characters are my monk, empath, sorcerer, and ranger in about that order, but I think my monk pulls off as much damage as the other three combined. UC just fundamentally wasn't designed for fights like this that didn't exist back then (outside invasions), where a creature could be uncrittable while also having thousands of health points. One excellent positioning hit is supposed to end any normal crittable creature because the idea is that you've done all the legwork (literally) to tier up to that point from earlier in the fight. But when a fight's supposed to be longer, the "startup time" of tiering up fades into the background and soon you're firing off twenty excellent positioning hits that really add up.

onyx jewel
spark jasper
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Auchand - you've been awesome, and thank you for tweaking things so much and fixing the battles when we've been breaking them.
If I could give one more piece of feedback, it would be to look at how credit for the kill/quest is given in the sybil engagement.

The following mechanic could be a root cause for a lot of frustration:
||- Being present IN the room with the sybil is required to receive credit for the kill and completing the quest.

This goes against the following mechanics in the fight:

  • There is a mechanic that requires one person to leave the room (eliminating the gates)
  • The sybil is also mobile.

As an example - last night, I was helping a group through on Kontii. I was eliminating gates, Going back and doing as much DPS as possible (did 1000's of damage). Trying to make sure I was always present. The sybil started moving rooms. As we were attacking her, I cast a spell (5 seconds of hard RT for me). She moved. In the 5 seconds of Hard RT.... she died in the other room.
Kontii got no credit for the kill (no lockbox, so assuming he would not have gotten Gemstone credit either if he hadn't completed it already).

Had that been someone trying to complete the quest, who used their only "free" entry. I can only imagine how wildly frustrating that would have been.

**With that - going to throw a creative solution out there (i have no idea how hard this would be to implement or code)..... **

  • Allow for anyone in the sanctum to receive credit for the kill
  • Have a DOT effect for ANY room that the sybil is not in. If a player is in it for more than 5 seconds, it'll be a dramatic negative impact to the player (scaling DoT maybe?). -- this would prevent players from being able to sit in a surrounding room while others carry them by killing the sybil.

I could see this coming to life in a way where the sybil draws power from the sanctum, if you're near her, it's all getting drawn to her and doesn't hurt players (a pulsing aura from her every few seconds or something that is a debuff or buff that applies to the characters). If you're in the sanctum, but NOT near her, it will start hurting you after 5 seconds (when the debuff/buff wears off).||

valid saddle
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Good points. No objections.

subtle cedar
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Anyone know what level the Sybil is for purposes of SMR/auto-success spells?

rugged cave
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120...atleast that is how it showed in someones profile

subtle cedar
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So does 413 just not work on Sybil since it is 120 or if you are 10/10 transcend destiny it still works up to 130.... interesting

pallid kestrel
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you definitely don't need 10/10. if i remember it will work with none but i certainly landed it without 10 on a character
i think 120 is the cutoff to have a chance for asc mobs if i remember from the adjustment for them

subtle cedar
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Based on the wording on wiki it seems like first 413 on a 120 with no transd would be 10%, then it goes up 20% every cast. So guaranteed on 5th cast

pallid kestrel
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i think it's 0% for 120? then yeah 20% per stacking after. cause it's a reduction of 10% over

subtle cedar
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With 175 fire lore my 413 is -39 TD, you want me on your team! I guess start off with 950 413 5x

pallid kestrel
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I'll repost a suggestion i made in the disabler thread about this btw (tl;dr: i think auto-success spells should auto-succeeded if the target is already afflicted by the debuff and you're reupping the duration)

#1191064189981163611 message
This came up in the gemstone / wyrm topics and figured I'd just post it here so it doesn't maybe get lost:

for auto-success spells on over-leveled (asc) things after you eventually land one of them on the target you apparently reset your stacking chance to succeed and have to start again.

I would suggest that if the target is already afflicted by the debuff, and it's in your level range you could theoretically hit, that the spell just auto succeed. That way on a boss fight like the wyrm you don't have to potentially cast a debuff 5 times to refresh it once a minute. As long as you diligently reapply within the duration it could just be one and done, and then you're punished if you get CC'ed or lose track and forget to recast and have to start over after it falls still.

You gesture at a shining winged disir.
Your magic strains to overcome a shining winged disir and nearly prevails before it unravels.

You gesture at a shining winged disir.
A shining winged disir blinks and appears distracted.

You gesture at a shining winged disir.
Your magic strains to overcome a shining winged disir and nearly prevails before it unravels.

You gesture at a shining winged disir.
Your magic strains to overcome a shining winged disir and nearly prevails before it unravels.

You gesture at a shining winged disir.
A shining winged disir blinks and appears distracted.

Example here i failed to hit the disir, then hit it. Then immediately when recasting failed again twice more before landing again. This is all just spamming 412 on a disir on a level 100 character with no trascend on the test realm.

lapis shoal
# valid saddle Spellerity?

In BG2 it was my favorite feat called "improved alacrity", allowed your mage to cast every memorized spell at once. So much fun.

spark jasper
woeful lodge
#

I'm curious about this messaging on the gemstone I found:
||You note the telltale filaments of a lesser binding shimmering around the plum-colored jewel. You can sense that the jewel is bound to you, but a sufficiently skilled artificer should be able to dispel the binding.

I wonder who the "skilled artificer" will be and if this is going to be a merchant service?||

minor locust
#

npc that doesn't exist yet

ocean horizon
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||No, it's an automated NPC service that costs silver and dust. The NPC just hasn't been released yet.||

prisma crane
wary venture
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hmm. wonderr if THE door is hiding an ascension boss and that's why we haven't figured it out yet spinthink

ebon flame
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a frail assistant who hulks out into an alpha werewolf but he never dies he just ragequits the battle

ocean horizon
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https://gswiki.play.net/Leafiara_(prime)/Mechanical_Musings/Boss_Battle_Tactics

Going to get in one or two quick hunts and then I have to head out for a couple hours, but wanted to rush out at least the first draft of this in the meantime so people could look at it while I'm away.

Let me know if I've forgotten anything (that doesn't involve rogues) or anything's wrong, etc. It's tactical talk for all non-rogue professions.

ocean horizon
past trout
ocean horizon
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Spam 1030 and hope to hit.

shadow palm
ocean horizon
#

Yeah, that's reasonable. Will ponder and respond a bit more when I'm waiting in a parking lot orr something.

minor locust
spark jasper
main ginkgo
#

Is the pure bard issue landing attacks or surviving? Both?

What sort of xp/gear?

prisma crane
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I hadn't thought of this before now, but might be worth digging around to find some of that higher level temp crit padding armors that can be shared for someone running the wyrm without great gear. I mean, having VHCP+ for the fight can't hurt. I know I've run across a few with MCP and higher. Not sure what folks have lockered. I wish I had saved all those now.

spark jasper
main ginkgo
#

That was my thought, and the follow up is what’s the TD vs current CS. Are you 2x spells? 75 MnE - I'm assuming most of the normal training options are capped and we're looking for other gains

Limited in options to quartz orb + 413 + boost enhance/enhancives + finding other CS debuffers to join.

ocean horizon
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When I get back, I’ll definitely update the guide at some point tonight to include “general advice” sections more broadly applicable to multiple professions. Stuff like quartz orbs, login boosts, small statues, Caligos Isle jewelry, Symbol of Trasncendence, Sigil of Determination, etc.

ebon flame
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A group of us are stalled on death with the sybil. Disirs are on break.

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we decayed

flat vapor
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We got the scripted death: ```A cinereous chthonian sybil breaks her eerie silence with a wail of torment that peals through the dimness. Rage twists her face and light flickers threateningly in her luminous eyes as she raises one fleshless hand.

A terrible chill tugs at your heart as a pulsing, glowing point forms at the center of your chest. Your heart pounds pathetically, sounding like thunder in your ears, before it abruptly ceases to beat!

A cinereous chthonian sybil extends a withered hand, drawing an ethereal golden thread from within your chest before snapping it with a twist of her wrist. The thread wafts away in a puff of aureate mist.```

ebon flame
#

does everyone in the group need to touch the alter or only those who have the entry from the quest?

prisma crane
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Altar only has to be touched once to open the archway for the group.

ocean horizon
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Only one person even can touch it. Once it’s open, others’ touches won’t do anything until next time it’s not open.

ebon flame
# 
A cinereous chthonian sybil retreats into the mists, H eyes flashing coldly.
A flash of colorless light heralds the departure of the mists within an ebon stone archway.
flat vapor
#

I think we did everything right. We got the scripted death, but then were just left to decay

ebon flame
#

ok this time we got revived but she still retreated

A cinereous chthonian sybil retreats into the mists, H eyes flashing coldly.
A flash of colorless light heralds the departure of the mists within an ebon stone archway.
flat vapor
#

lol, are we doing something wrong? This is weird

ebon flame
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probably best to wait for Auchand

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ok this time it worked but we used materials on the altar

flat vapor
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And I was on dispel duty and didn't get a lockbox 😦

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on the bright side, i think our group was not OP by any means and we totally kicked the sybil's butt

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ok desorceri is op. But i mean we didn't have an op square

ocean horizon
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Squares aren’t usually that OP in the sybil battle if they aren’t monks.

flat vapor
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the last time I went was with Aureliano and it felt kinda op

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I think he might have been able to solo it

valid saddle
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Huh.

ocean horizon
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He has high end dispel flares, definitely an aid there.

spark jasper
#

A small part of me wishes the draconic idols spawned more frequently, but were like gigas shards, where you had to hunt the mutants to get them into your wealth inventory.

Similar with feathers & quills.

gaunt umbra
#

We backlogged on wyrm carries?

spark jasper
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only 1 summoned outside of the timer today

prisma crane
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Anyone have any idea exactly what the sybil is doing that drains spirit? Trying to track it down in my logs, but I'm not seeing much. I see in my logs where I'm popping symbol of renewal to regain a point, but not seeing the effect/attack that's eating my spirit points.
What's this? I can't attribute an effect (from just the log) of what this is doing, and thought it might be related:
||A cinereous chthonian sybil illuminates with fell light as she raises an open hand toward you! A dizzying array of golden runes surround and suffuse you before being absorbed into your body.||

viral apex
#

Is the sybil still having issues?

flat vapor
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yes its still having issues

valid saddle
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I've made no changes to her since she was working last night, so that's odd.

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When did she despawn?

flat vapor
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Ok, that's interesting, since i was dispelling gates in another room and didn't see the despawn

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Also this 30s timer is pretty annoying and i'll se you in thiry seconds

valid saddle
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Haha.

flat vapor
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I think we'll need to get Desorceri

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Who was there and has the log on what happenned. The first attempt however, we all died and never had an attempt at phase 2

valid saddle
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I'd like to spy in with the next group that fights the sybil.

kindred sparrow
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We just killed the wyrm and people on our team didnt get credit, including someone who made it into the final fight

obsidian pulsar
#

More than 5 people engage?

gaunt umbra
#

You still have to do X amount of damage in Wyrmreach, or get teleported there as a corpse.

kindred sparrow
#

i see

ebon flame
#

1st attempt - quest cleared touch (death but no disirs appeared)

📎 message.txt
onyx sleet
#

my understanding is the people in Daiyon's group definatly did damage

ebon flame
#

2nd attempt - quest cleared touch (disirs raised us but sybil fled)
As the disir retreat into the fog, one of them shouts, "We have already interceded more than we may in this. Go, heroes, and drive her evil back into the depths!"
You say, "Derp."
Sivath says, "That's good."
Sivath traces a sign that contorts in the air while he forcefully incants a dark invocation...
Sivath gestures at a cinereous chthonian sybil.
[SMR result: 109 (Open d100: 89)]
** Tendrils of pale energy lash out from Sivath's lacquered staff toward a cinereous chthonian sybil and cage her within bands of concentric geometry that constrict as one, shattering upon impact! **
A swirling ebon barrier around a cinereous chthonian sybil deflects the attack.
A cinereous chthonian sybil retreats into the mists, H eyes flashing coldly.
A flash of colorless light heralds the departure of the mists within an ebon stone archway.

#

3rd attempt - sphere, feather, quill used for entry
All went well according to plan.

past trout
#

so reposting here, but I was in wyrm fight, was one of the 5 pulled in, hit it a bunch, even got the last hit. but no credit 😢

past trout
# 
A cinereous chthonian sybil gestures elegantly, her bony fingers deftly weaving threads of scintillating mana into a spell.
!R>
[SMR result: 118 (Open d100: 85, Penalty: 7)]
Relentless in your assault, you unleash a frenzy of violence upon a cinereous chthonian sybil!
You attempt to jab a cinereous chthonian sybil!
You have decent positioning against a cinereous chthonian sybil.
  UAF: 664 vs UDF: 746 = 0.890 * MM: 96 + d100: 44 = 129
Hindered by the glowing tether binding you to inevitable failure, your attack flounders!
You draw back and take a slow, steady breath, recentering yourself for the fight.
Your furious assault bolsters you and inspires those around you!
You feel a fair amount more durable.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
!R>
A cinereous chthonian sybil's air of vulnerability dissipates.
!R>
A cinereous chthonian sybil retreats into the mists, her eyes flashing coldly.
A flash of colorless light heralds the departure of the mists within an ebon stone archway.``` what happened to it? it left? also what's this tether thing?
valid saddle
#

Definitely been chasing down her commitment issues.

acoustic cape
# 
[SMR result: 136 (Open d100: 87, Bonus: 6)]
Hindered by the glowing tether binding you to inevitable failure, your attack flounders!
>
You feel at full magical power again.
>
A cinereous chthonian sybil retreats into the mists, her eyes flashing coldly.
A flash of colorless light heralds the departure of the mists within an ebon stone archway.```
shy tiger
# 
--- Lich: repository active.
[repository: error: server says: The map database for Gemstone Prime is currently pending approval.]
--- Lich: repository has exited.``` haha and it's still unavailable due to my screw up
spark jasper
#

Auchand - was just fighting the wyrm with the following group:
Adalfuns, Imrys, Kiijo, and Kontii

it appeared to glitch during the river phase and pulled @topaz pond and @gloomy mesa out of the river phase after they died... we were the only 4 fighting and they did boatloads of damage. They landed at the runestone.

Might it be possible for them to have the gemstone quest kicked off?

You're now no longer aiming at anything in particular.
You step out of hiding to waylay a silver-scaled cold wyrm!
You swing a wickedly sharp black tomahawk at a silver-scaled cold wyrm!

You hear the soft tinkle of rolling dice, followed by the sound of coins dropping!
  AS: +733 vs DS: +521 with AvD: +26 + d100 roll: +48 = +286
   ... and hit for 168 points of damage!
   Torn muscle in the cold wyrm's right leg!

 ** Darkness gathers around the cold wyrm, speared through by pinpoints of white fire! **
   ... 10 points of damage!
   Burst of flames to back toasts skin nicely.
Roundtime: 4 sec.
...wait 4 seconds.
!R>stance o
...wait 4 seconds.
You're now no longer aiming at anything in particular.
!R>aim clear
>waylay
...wait 3 seconds.
...wait 3 seconds.
You're now no longer aiming at anything in particular.
A silver-scaled cold wyrm's eyes whirl with liquid silver.  Concentration twists her scaled brow as her wounds scab over and close.
Her hind legs bunching powerfully, a silver-scaled cold wyrm sweeps her immense tail at you!
  AS: +726 vs DS: +766 with AvD: +50 + d100 roll: +64 = +74
   A clean miss.

A shimmering maelstrom of color engulfs Adalfuns's body, which fades away as if it had never been.
Your surge of empowerment fades.
!R>hide
...wait 4 seconds.
!R>hide
A silver-scaled cold wyrm inhales deeply before spewing a torrent of frosty spittle at you!
  AS: +549 vs DS: +890 with AvD: +35 + d100 roll: +16 = -290
   A clean miss.
A silver-scaled cold wyrm lashes out with a scythe-like talon at you!
  AS: +716 vs DS: +766 with AvD: +25 + d100 roll: +44 = +19
   A clean miss.

 ** Exploding in a tumbling current of frothy foam, a wave of sea water suddenly materializes at the call of your rusalkoren cuirass and courses through the area. **

Strong currents tug at a silver-scaled cold wyrm, pulling her about in an attempt to roll over her.
[SMR result: 37 (Open d100: 11, Bonus: 8)]
Standing her ground, a silver-scaled cold wyrm is able to withstand the force of the tidal wave.
...wait 1 seconds.
A silver-scaled cold wyrm's eyes glint with liquid silver as she diverts a fraction of her concentration into restoring herself.
A shimmering maelstrom of color engulfs Imrys's body, which fades away as if it had never been.
!R>hide```
valid saddle
#

Can look at that, sure.

#

Why does the wiki say that the wyrm is immune to UAC?

woeful lodge
#

That happened last night with Jaired, Issalya, Teveriel, Corlyne and I. We all died, minus Jaired inside Wymreach and when ported out, Jaired and Issalya went to one spot and both got credit for the kill. The 3 of us ended up at the runestone with no credit

pallid kestrel
#

#1057019583686520942 message - always got the corrsucations of color shield thing when you tried to hit it, and to my knowledge there was to way to avoid it

valid saddle
woeful lodge
#

We thought so too. Mind you P2 i barely got to hit anything between RT lock and arm/hand bleeders, and Tev had an issue too... so maybe something there? I dunno

valid saddle
#

So, originally, players who died were supposed to be ejected eventually. I've updated the logic to match the sybil, which is that they won't be ejected if there's a fight going on.

woeful lodge
#

Should they still be getting credit if they die in wyrmreach and the wyrm is still killed?

past trout
#

🤔 are there any wyrm groups?

prisma crane
valid saddle
#

So, I took a pretty serious look at how contributions are working on both the wyrm and sybil.

#

I can't find a case that breaks things.

past trout
#

it would be nice if the regularly scheduled wyrm still appeared and didn't get pushed back by the idol summons. otherwise it just keeps getting pushed back over and over again (except maybe the first of the day since everyone was asleep)

half locust
#

Ahh... I didn't realize the idol usage reset the schedule. That's going to... kinda lock out everyone who doesn't have an idol. I was planning to join or assemble a team for a quasi-regularly scheduled wyrm.

spark jasper
#

I would call out the recent thought net conversation as a good source or reason to explore instancing the wyrm when an idol is used for summoning.

prisma crane
#

Yeah, I'm feeling pretty crappy about that whole conversation.
Trying to help folks, anyone who needs it, and to get accused of gatkeeping really bums me out.

kindred sparrow
#

Helping people is not gatekeeping. An frankly you have been the guy running the wyrm for months already. id ignore them

minor locust
#

Talk to em 💯

kindred sparrow
#

the community at large will speak for you, Myharl, and all the people you helped will be sure to speak for you.

prisma crane
#

Yeah, I don't intend on stopping folks, the whole #1329102396781105263 crew and many others have been absolutely amazing and inspiring. I think... I guess it just caught me off guard more than anything. I suppose there will just have to be a disagreement there with what gatekeeping is. Keep killing wyrms! And good luck with your quests!

half locust
#

IMO, I think the gap right now is game mechanics. I saw that conversation and disagreed and was disappointed with it. IMO, those who organize a team with an idol should be able to.. use that team.

prisma crane
half locust
#

The annoying game mechanic which I didn't know until now is... now I can't try to schedule a team based on an approximate prediction of the time, as that time can't be predicted.

past trout
#

I've discovered through this process that some of my alts are annoyingly weak. :p

rugged cave
#

It will become more predictable as soon as most people finish their first step

shadow palm
past trout
#

i wonder if idols are on some sort of weekly limit too. i've never found more than one a week

half locust
#

I'm also unsure how to best organize a "support" group: those willing to pitch in for the first phase to aid the lead 5: webs, debuffs, AS boosts, DS boosts, Tonis. The messages I see on ESP seem to discourage that: "Don't join in."
I realize that's a challenge to organize a pickup group of DPS, support, and not have a "support" person accidentally or intentionally out-DPSing the intended 5

shadow palm
half locust
#

I supported some of the earlier groups with webs, paladin auras, and taunting the adds while the core group did their business.

pallid kestrel
#

by the same token when we brought up the obvious problem that some classes just plain have problems contributing damage and were told "well you can clear clouds and debuff, etc. etc." and it's like well no, not really because you won't get enough credit if randoms show up.

understanding also this is a bit of a temporary problem as we clear the logjam of people wanting to do the quest.

minor locust
#

There is nuance you’re not mentioning here.

For a standard Wyrm appearance (on the timer) the message isn’t don’t join in. It’s “if anyone here needs the kill for the quest lets try hold back enough to let them contribute for top 5”. Can’t guarantee that one but it’s nice to try.

If someone uses an idol to summon, a VERY RARE item, that person in my opinion should be able to ask that they get to fight the wyrm with their chosen four partners. Of course that’s not enforceable but we are talking about courtesy.

I do think anyone tossing an idol in should be 100% guaranteed a top 5 spot mechanically.

kindred sparrow
#

100% agree. Spending the idol should mean its "your" wyrm. you summoned it and your handpicked 5 should be the ones to get it. There is plenty of help with the wyrm. There are groups doing it just to get people through so everyone should get a chance but it will take some time

half locust
half locust
shadow palm
austere moss
#

The folks running their mouths about gatekeeping can't even beat the wyrm. Nonsense

prisma crane
# half locust I agree that if you're burning an idol, you should be prioritized to the group. ...

I agree, and have also voiced this ever since the summons were released for wyrms. I would really love to see the summoned wyrms have zero effect on the spawn timer. Not sure if the issue might be the chance of spawning a wyrm while one is already summoned, but even if so, there's got be a better way that resetting an 8-9 hour wait.

Also, I would love it the "beacon" messaging were global as well when they are summoned. At least that would be a indication of whether the wyrm is being summoned or spawning.

spark jasper
# half locust I'm also unsure how to best organize a "support" group: those willing to pitch i...

Purely so folks see this... We just learned in an a wyrm group, that "support" things that engage the wyrm can also out position someone who is doing damage.

We had a group running where person A was firing arrows and doing a little damage, but not much., and Person B was JUST casting call wind to keep the acid away.
The person casting call wind ended up making the rift and the archer did not.

#

I genuinely think the master solve would be an instanced battle of the wyrm when using an idol.

Maybe when we throw the idol in the fire, a huge inferno blazes around us, teleporting us to a clearing where a bunch of Gigas are setting up a ballista in route to fighting the wyrm.

half locust
#

I don't think instanced mechanics are common in GS... but the Reim Royalty bosses are. And they're up to level 120, too! Plenty of room for a wyrm!

#

On a similar but different topic: I do respect all the work that Auchand & Team have put into this, both originally and recent updates. I respect that these boss-fights are not something to rubber-stamp. Characters must contribute. It will be a challenge. Be prepared. I resepct that that is their goal (in my perspective), yet are also listening to feedback so that those experienced, geared, prepared players and characters can succeed with their character.

spark jasper
#

100% Massive kudos to anyone who's been working on the quest in general. All of it has been a very nice surge of excitement and energy into the game.

prisma crane
spark jasper
summer dove
#

I've all but stopped doing wyrm fights because you never know whose "private" wyrm it is

prisma crane
#

Yeah, intentionally being an potential obstacle to another players quest effort at the cost of them expending their own resources is just a jerk move. Period. Don't really care what kind of spin anyone puts on it. Trying to help and make sure everyone gets their one quest kill is literally the opposite of gatekeeping. 🤷‍♂️ It's just courtesy. I hope everyone who wants to has a chance to be included without other folks just snatching away opportunity just because they can.

untold night
#

Just speaking for myself, but I appreciate everyone who has gone out of their way to help folks out!

obsidian pulsar
#

We said we would 😉

acoustic cape
#

I liked the quest and the fights and how they brought people together to collectively do stuff for once. Haven't felt this kind of energy from the player base since the AOL days really. Hope to see more in the future.

untold night
#

I’d like to do more quests/bosses

#

I agree that the energy is very cool and we should try and keep kindled

acoustic cape
#

Stuff that makes you feel like you're actually playing with other people to accomplish something is the best, not just everyone running around on their own like it's single player sharing the same instance.

summer dove
#

Following up on earlier comments. I do think the scheduled wyrm drops should be separate from the idol wyrms. Because the only wyrms showing up right now are the private idol wyrms. I'd hate for the private wyrms to prevent everyone else from ever hunting a wyrm again.

subtle cedar
#

Its hard to tell which Wyrm is private and which is public

prisma crane
#

It can be really frustrating to be waiting for something that's not going to happen. Would love to see the wyrm spawns untied from the idol summons. And that too, would be really useful for the messaging to be different (or at the very least let the beacon when one is summoned be seen across the region).

subtle cedar
spark jasper
prisma crane
#

Yeah, the current rate of summons will 1) not be a long-lived thing once the majority of folks get through the quest, 2) won't have a ton of backstock idols to to support it.

spark jasper
#

I stand by the idea - idol wyrms would be great if instanced.

And then regular schedule wyrms could be like every 2 or 3 hours. Every 8 hours +/- makes it really hard for people who ust play a couple hours a night

subtle cedar
#

Got to be more efficient with the idols 3 scrubs per 2 carries

spark jasper
#

Could be cool idea to give an aura to the people present in a group when the idol is dropped in the inferno.... like river of color aura or something...

Then if they're present when it gets to the river phase, they're prioritized to be pulled in. Then its a good thing if people help during the normal phase. It would prevent the issue of folks not knowing if it's a private wyrm or normal wyrm

If you die, you lose the aura ((shrug))

summer dove
subtle cedar
#

They should keep the wyrm at this pace or atleast cut the normal timer by 3/4..... its fun to just pop in and kill a Wyrm when bored

spark jasper
#

I dont see the harm in it coming more frequently.... even cutting it to every 4 hours would feel really good

summer dove
#

It can be really annoying when nobody kills it. I don't want to be forced to kill it every 2-3 hours or be annoyed with debuffs. This may be less of an issue if you play during "normal" hours, but I don't.

subtle cedar
#

Yeah, I got steamrolled by one while on bounty hunt earlier today..... and on hunting south HW with random 9 second cast delays

shadow palm
#

This is all a temporary problem while the logjam works through

subtle cedar
#

Auchand should post the M-o-M death rate increase since last weekend

spark jasper
#

So maybe an old school Invoker style schedule could solve it. More frequent during prime hours, less so during off hours.

This would help alleviate the log jam

pallid kestrel
#

or just upping idol spawns substantially and just let players mostly dictate it. like if you could just reliably go farm mutants to realistically get an idol

ebon flame
#

"I want a gemstone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

#

is what the Raging Thrak's advice speech should be updated to 😛

valid saddle
#

I'm sorry, too busy trying to get my first Gemstone still.

ebon flame
#

you've been busy for sure

deft basin
#

i recommend Eldurhaart

past trout
#

we should get faction rep for killing wyrm + sybil. and unique currencyh to buy stuff in eldurhaart. maybe eventually they stop being aggressive to us if we get enough rep...

lapis shoal
#

I'm curious if the Reiver civilization and the ancient Gigas did battle back in the day too since both seem to predate the modern histories.

untold night
#

Yeah I think it would be cool to do more with factions in the future

past trout
#

Faction bounty: "Bloodthirsty adventurers are massacring our villages! They're killing everyone--the women, the children, everyone! Put a stop to these butchers--permanently. You have been tasked to kill 20 adventurers. Report to the elder gigas when you are done."

minor locust
#

Did the sybil get made immune to UCS?

#

I can't do anything to it. Every attack gets absorbed by the mortal tether. Everyone else is doing damage but me. The mortal tether never ran out. It stayed at 5 second duration and never fell off me.,

#

it fell off when i died, lol

pallid kestrel
#

i haven't done it since auchand added that stuff i dunno how it works actually

main ginkgo
#

did you leave the room? You can break tether ||by walking away to a different room||

minor locust
#

No, when I fought it it didn't have that mechanic. I have no idea what any of this is. But we won despite this foolery

#

being in the sybil without brute or a warrior carrying everyone is weird. i sort of got to carry with monk lol

spark jasper
minor locust
#

Shows up in Debuffs

spark jasper
#

Awesome, wasn't watching debuffs at all etiher, will highlight that a specific color next time i see it. I stare at the room window looking for anyone that gets stunned while I spam my routine, heh
Appreciate the pro tip!

main ginkgo
#

Put a sound effect on it!

spark jasper
#

Adding the string for it here, in case anyone wants to highlight & sound effect it!
||```A cinereous chthonian sybil raises a skeletal hand and images dance through the air before her in a miserable tangle of potential destinies for you, each more deplorable than the last. With a glint of cold satisfaction in her eyes, she points toward you and a shimmering golden thread lances toward you, anchoring you to a failure's fate. You are overwhelmed with an urge to flee your pathetic future!

past trout
#

I think it's rude to address them as "the wyrm" and "the sybil". they should have names. I vote for Margie for the wyrm and Karen for the sybil

prisma crane
#

I will name each wyrm then, before I kill it. We can chisel it into their stone carcasses like a headstone after they have been slain. ⚔️

acoustic cape
#

ok let's go kill Karen

past trout
#

the boot timer from sybil should probably be slightly longer. it may take a while to raise everyone inside who need to infuse...

ocean horizon
#

I agree it seems a bit quick now. I get why it's there and it should be there with some length of time, but there are lots of reasons why people might be there at least a few minutes: healing, raising, explaining the Gemstone verbs in a safe room, ||getting the Spirit Beast||, emptying the lockbox, thanking people for the help...

prisma crane
ebon flame
#

how do we deal with Mortal Tether?

prisma crane
# ebon flame how do we deal with Mortal Tether?

Not sure really. I'm not even making Sybil runs with folks anymore. I can't contribute anything and don't want to mess-up another quest goer's entry. Since the Mortal Tether fires off more regularly now, Myharl is essentially useless in the battle. Even when I manage to tackle and feint her DS down to something I can hit, tether prevents damage, by the time I get rid of tether her DS is back up over 830 and/or she's cast it on me again. Don't think I've contributed more than 1k damage in any of the runs since those changes were put into place, including runs filled with heavy hitters. Literally did a run earlier where I never landed a single hit the whole battle. Asked around a bit earlier, and seems the consensus is that I just haven't invested enough money to have the level of gear it's now been tweaked for.

I figure it's just not a fight intented for me. I got about a dozen sybil kills in when the fight was reasonable for Myharl. Now, I just figure it's not his fight. If I still didn't have my quest kill, I'd just be looking for a carry.

past trout
#

i heard that if you leave the room the tether will break. maybe try channeling dispel at yourself if it shows up as a debuff?

obsidian pulsar
#

No idea as well. It's boiled down to blunt force and I know Auchands first comment was "Mechanics"

past trout
#

i tried it today and it seemed to work, but then it did the auto-kill mechanic and i learned you could avoid that too by leaving the room

prisma crane
#

Popping a dispel works, but literally gets cast right back on me. If I can ever consistently bump up my AS to 850 or higher, then I could contribute. That won't be happening anytime soon. 😄 I'm fine with it, just sharing the details. ⚔️

past trout
#

my meleers all gave up and went full ucs. luckily they all trained brawling

#

i'm going to do my paladin tomorrow though, and she doesn't have brawling. not entirely sure what i plan to do heh. maybe hope my team can tackle/web her....

shadow palm
prisma crane
# shadow palm You seem to do damage on the runs we've gone on together but it does require dis...

Yeah, there was just the one where I didn't land any blows. But still, as little as I can contribute even with those few hits landing, I don't want to risk someone's entry. I'll likely still go on occasional hunts with folks once we're back to using altar summons. The one quest goer attempt I did that failed, I just sent them the summon items to replace the lost entry and decided not to run it again. There are folks out there who are much better at fighting it, and they've been doing fantastic helping folks through.

ebon flame
#

seems leaving the room will break it + 5 sec RT

obsidian pulsar
#

We should be able to react sever it without that

past trout
#

problem is you don't get credit if you're not in the room when it dies..

prisma crane
#

I mean, every battle isn't for everyone. I'm pretty okay with that. It gives a variety of folks a place to shine in battle. ⚔️ If I make another non-quest goer attempt at her, I'll try the leaving the room thing.

shadow palm
obsidian pulsar
#

Just said that. We spent a ton of time on knowing the Wyrm, but little to nothing on Sybil

prisma crane
obsidian pulsar
#

I think I had fought her 3x, but we killed her?

prisma crane
#

Am I tripping, or was the previous sybil undead? I swear I thought I recalled my holyfire doing some major work on her, but it had been a year or two, so might be misremembering.

past trout
#

i know symbol of retribution does nothing to her 😦

obsidian pulsar
#

I think it was assumed

oak hatch
#

My disdain for raids aside (especially these raids), I don't think that anyone should need a carry just because they're the "wrong class." Being a little more or less effective is one thing, but these two fights seem to be so bad for certain classes that you either have to settle for doing nothing or invest an absurd amount of extra time grinding (or I guess paying cash, as mentioned above) to make up the difference.

I never raided a lot in DDO but that game had nothing as extreme as this.

shadow palm
past trout
#

have we tried to spectralize the sybil yet? where's yakushi?

obsidian pulsar
#

I've seen a lot of top end gaming in EQ, EQ2 and WoW or FFXIV. Wyrm and Sybil are still quality in that mix. Can you balance it, probably not, but it might be as close as is

subtle cedar
#

I thought spamming attacks would atleast lower the defense for others via FoF but I guess if you are the only melee in sybil room it doesnt matter? How much FoF can you really get if your group of 5 is all doing different stuff? SMR, Melee, CS?

#

I do feel like all the heavy hitters I been with in Sybil were 850 AS ambushers or berserking warriors or SK506 melee, everyone else was just meatshield

ocean horizon
#

Leaving the room does seem to get rid of the tether really quick, which... is not exactly what I'd describe as requiring tactics, but is a thing.

Edit: Okay, fine, I guess technically it's tactics. Maybe what I more mean is that it's disengaging from combat temporarily.

obsidian pulsar
ocean horizon
#

Yeah, I certainly disagree with the idea of the sybil being a square-heavy fight unless they're completely and wildly at the top end of gear. It's a fight for pures, semis, and monks.

Edit: Well, maybe not bard semis. Paladins and especially rangers are good to go, though.

obsidian pulsar
#

The list of people who can generate 850 attack and maintain is its minutely small.

#

650 bolting wizards are equivalent or 585 CS casters

subtle cedar
#

I have gotten some juicy boil earths and 100+ damage bolts on it during vulnerable times but my 2 CS characters were laughable

obsidian pulsar
#

SMR spells have proven to be the lowest threshhold, hence web bolts

ocean horizon
obsidian pulsar
subtle cedar
#

Def not the experience I had even being the dispel/413 person.... I can recheck my logs though

#

probably just for the +AS so they can get max attack levels

ocean horizon
#

Wish I'd logged, but I would generally be surprised to see a cleric, empath, or sorc do less than 250 damage or so per cast once they started getting through.

#

Though, really, it's not even the damage that's the best part, but 212 or 703 stopping the sybil from casting.

obsidian pulsar
#

Berserk is +29 attack. It also opens you up for 7 rounds with zero defense other than inate. It's extremely risky

subtle cedar
#

Seemed like even after my dispels/413 the Sybil TD was still around 510-540 in some cases which was hard to get past, what level of TD have you seen it get down to?

ocean horizon
#

Will see what I can find in logs after this loot boost runs out and I'm done hunting.

ocean horizon
# 
  CS: +598 - TD: +500 + CvA: +25 + d125: +22 == +145
  Warding failed!
A cinereous chthonian sybil contorts in excruciating agony!
   ... 200 points of damage!```
Sybil down to 500 sorc TD...
```You gesture at a cinereous chthonian sybil.
Particles of dust and soot rise from the ground at your feet as you release a pulsating, platinum ripple of energy toward a cinereous chthonian sybil!
  CS: +545 - TD: +473 + CvA: +25 + d125: +110 == +207
  Warding failed!
  The chthonian sybil is cloaked in a blinding platinum light and assailed for 152 points of damage!
A swirling ebon barrier around a cinereous chthonian sybil deflects the attack.
   ... 80 points of damage!
   ... 5 points of damage!
Cast Roundtime 3 Seconds.```
...or 473 cleric TD.. It's totally doable.
# 
The force of Tranquia's power warps the air as it surges toward a cinereous chthonian sybil!
  CS: +590 - TD: +478 + CvA: +25 + d125: +103 == +240
  Warding failed!
A nebulous haze shimmers into view around a cinereous chthonian sybil, plunging inward to envelop her chest!
   ... 35 points of damage!
   ... 35 points of damage!
   ... 70 points of damage!
Cloudy tendrils writhe throughout the sybil's form, ravaging her for 75 points of damage!
** Threads of charged light spiral around Tranquia's arms, striking a cinereous chthonian sybil with a pulsing shock!  A resonant force ripples through Tranquia, amplifying her spirit! **
   ... 40 points of damage!```
And here's 478 empath TD, the lowest I've found in a log. Tranquia's normal CS is far above most empaths, of course, but 478 is in range even of ordinary empaths--and that's without even factoring in Spirit Slayer.

It's all fine, but you just have to set up first. (And melee also needs to set up first.)
past trout
ocean horizon
#

Don't have that in any logs, unfortunately. (I do know my paladin can hit it, but she has 515 CS without a quartz orb, so she might not be the best representative... 😄 )

minor locust
#

Something buggy happened this morning and nobody got credit for the wyrm out of the group - no lockboxes for anyone, and a person who was starting the quest wasn't able to proceed. Extra sucks because I used an idol for the hunt. 😕

prisma crane
#

Just a heads up: Summoned a wyrm with a five person group this morning to take it out. We killed the wyrm, but no one got credit or lockboxes. Three of the folks needed it for their quest kill. Party was: Aureliano, Myharl, Rasson (needed kill), Nottinghamm (needed kill), and Blightshade (needed kill).

#

Yeah, @minor locust donated the idol to help out the quest goers. Not sure what happened. Was a pretty standard Angargreft wyrm hunt. Lots of mobs and distractions and extra chaos, but ultimately took the wyrm down. Maybe we can get the credit for the kill for the quest goers? Nothing unusual happened during encounter that I could notice.

minor locust
#

My idol stash is down to 4, going to hold onto them until we're sure credit is being awarded as expected, I think

pallid coyote
#

Wyrm was felled, everyone got credit

spark jasper
#

Just an idea.... Gemstones seem like their aiming to be a decent silver sink.... Idols, and the sybil summoning items feel like they could fall into that bucket as well!

frank flint
#

Good job this morning, looking forward to joining one of the future runs.

spark jasper
#

Any big hitters around that could do a sybil run or two?

ebon flame
#

mid hitter but good preventing casts and kicking... ah dispels

spark jasper
#

yer a pretty big hitter

ebon flame
#

Brute makes me think less of myself 😂

past trout
#

anyone want to do a sybil run? especially looking for people who can reduce DS

spark jasper
#

I’m pretty sure i did more damage to the Sybil with my 12m exp mutant enchanting wizard with a 7x runestaff (no offensive flares), using 515 & 917…

Than i do with Kontii (50m exp geared up rogue)

Just throwing that out there for folks worried about participating 😂

Wyrm: squares shine
Sybil: Pures with SMR shine

minor locust
#

Empaths 😦

past trout
#

lol sitting in sybil fight, can't cast, with eherbs slowly healing down wounds and scars from chest/abdomen/back first as i frantically wiki what in the world heals head scars 😓

prisma crane
#

At one point there was some discussion about updating ;eherbs to allow targeted location for healing down, like ";eherhs head". I would love for that to be a thing.

spark jasper
past trout
#

really? bard is my next sybil 😦

summer dove
#

I think I'm better at the sybil than the wyrm. (Moreso because the wyrm is just how fast can you output damage and nothing beats berserk.)

shadow palm
past trout
#

oooh, apparently there's an ;eherbs --spellcast and ;eherbs --ranged now

summer dove
#

I hope Sailor's Grief has a boss mob where it doesn't matter how many people we throw at it. It was really fun having everyone come together to take down the wyrm.

minor locust
#

Those would be crazy. Elder Kraken with 250000 HP lol

past trout
#

form small groups to target each tentacle in different rooms that throw in adds and attack you independently?

ebon flame
#

Boss Kraken now with baby kraken facehuggers for everyone!

ebon flame
#

Can we ensure the mortal tether stops after the sybil is killed? After the fight I ran back to town and got stalled. 😛

With a sound like crystal breaking, the tether snaps, freeing you from its hindering grasp.
spark jasper
#

How'd that last Sybil fight go?

Oooooh, smooth as ever

Area         Health per Round         Bandaged         Can Tend?         Tend Time
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Neck                 8                   No               Yes                3s   
Left leg             8                   No               Yes                3s   
Right arm            4                   No               Yes                3s   
Head                 7                   No               Yes                3s   
Abdomen             20                   No               Yes                3s   
Right leg            4                   No               Yes                3s   
Chest               32                   No               Yes               60s   
Left arm             6                   No               Yes                3s ```
pallid kestrel
prisma crane
summer dove
#

;gateway Updated (For the sybil fight).

flat vapor
#

We have 1 spot left for a sybil run. Anyone up for it? Ok filled up!

acoustic cape
#

what's the order of items for manual sybil summon?

past trout
#

doesn't matter

prisma crane
#

There isn't one.

prisma crane
#

So, there's somethin going on sometimes with folks who are fighting the wyrm and make it into Wyrmreach yet are not getting credit. Just fought a wyrm and the following folks and me were teleported:

A wash of colored light deposits the prone form of Riend.
A wash of colored light deposits the prone form of Xanlin.
A wash of colored light deposits the prone form of Taulramil.```
Xanlin was a first time quester, and did not get credit when we slayed the wyrm. There also were no lockboxes. This is the second time this has happened on wyrm hunts I've been on in the past couple days.
zinc spindle
#

I've got an idol, we can grab Xanlin and any other first timers and try again.

valid saddle
#

That clip doesn't help clarify much if I'm looking for an issue.

prisma crane
#

Wyrm spawned, we fought, five folks teleported, we killed the wyrm in Wyrmreach. No one got credit or lockboxes. We had one quest goer as well, Xanlin, who did not get big game milestone nor quest credit.

valid saddle
#

I wonder if it's related to the wyrm moving before players are. I'll check.

prisma crane
#

It seemed to be a fairly typical encounter for what it's worth. If it matters, this was a natural spawn and not an idol summon.

past trout
#

that happened to me once too. no credit for anyone

prisma crane
#

Just for refernce, the other time this same thing happened was on the 15th, I posted about it here:
#1329223489487372408 message

valid saddle
#

You saw all of the other death messaging for the wyrm?

prisma crane
#

Double checking, but think so. One moment.

  UAF: 747 vs UDF: 695 = 1.074 * MM: 125 + d100: 96 = 230
  ... and hit for 68 points of damage!
  Massive descending punch shatters rib cage, causing corresponding massive internal damage!

Belching a toxic mix of acid and blood from her maw, the wyrm struggles for purchase on the disc, but her titanic musculature has no more strength within it.  The wyrm topples over the side, dissolving into motes of color as she plummets out of sight.  Her death throes manage to upend the platform, and you fall into the abyss, hurtling after the dying wyrm.```

Oh, this maybe worth noting too. In both instances were credit didn't happen, the wyrm final "kill shot" was UAC attack. Just noticed that.
#

@Auchand Is it alright for us to do a idol summon now?

past trout
#

hey! when it happened to me, it was a UCS hit that was a final hit too!

# 
2025-03-12 21:30:11 Eastern Daylight Time:   UAF: 721 vs UDF: 660 = 1.092 * MM: 122 + d100: 65 = 198
2025-03-12 21:30:11 Eastern Daylight Time:   ... and hit for 38 points of damage!
2025-03-12 21:30:11 Eastern Daylight Time:   Sudden twist rewarded by a wet *POP!* in the neck.
2025-03-12 21:30:11 Eastern Daylight Time: Belching a toxic mix of acid and blood from her maw, the wyrm struggles for purchase on the disc, but her titanic musculature has no more strength within it.  The wyrm topples over the side, dissolving into motes of color as she plummets out of sight.  Her death throes manage to upend the platform, and you fall into the abyss, hurtling after the dying wyrm.```
shy tiger
#

ucs and ranged continue to be the bane of programmers' existence 😁

prisma crane
#

Just did an idol summon for the same quest goers, and again, no credit, no lockboxes for anyone. 😦 Agan a UAC "kill shot".

The figure attempts to kick a silver-scaled cold wyrm!
  UAF: 752 vs UDF: 592 = 1.270 * MM: 113 + d100: 58 = 201
  ... and hit for 115 points of damage!
  Reverse roundhouse punches through back, organs, and out through the stomach!

Belching a toxic mix of acid and blood from her maw, the wyrm struggles for purchase on the disc, but her titanic musculature has no more strength within it.  The wyrm topples over the side, dissolving into motes of color as she plummets out of sight.  Her death throes manage to upend the platform, and you fall into the abyss, hurtling after the dying wyrm.```

Here's who teleported to Wyrmreach with me THIS time:

A wash of colored light deposits the prone form of Xanlin.
A wash of colored light deposits the prone form of Ralkean.
A wash of colored light deposits the prone form of Emyrald.
A wash of colored light deposits the prone form of Zavio.```

minor locust
#

UCS also borked the sybil on release too.

zinc spindle
#

Different quest goers. Emyrald, Xanlin and myself did not get credit this time.

prisma crane
#

Yeah, I mean, I don't mind not getting a lockbox, but hope we can get credit to all the quest goers. They pulled it off. They did the thing. 😄

frank flint
#

Random but has anyone finished the boss fight with coup? Does it even work on a boss fight at a super reduced hp percent?

trim cedar
#

I haven't "finished" the boss with coup, but there was some iteration on test that allowed you to coup it non-fatally. I found this out because I had an attack routine that was force attempting coup before many attacks 😆

Haven't attempted it since, but coup us supposed to have a max HP threshold of 200

prisma crane
#

There we go. I was digging through old posts trying to remember who did it back then. I knew it had been attempted. But yeah, if it were to function, I'm sure it would be an oversite and need to be fixed.

valid saddle
#

UCS has been riddled with issues over the years, so I'm not surprised it's not playing by the rules on this.

half locust
#

Guess I can break out the katar on my UCS warrior for this.. or at least go katar only on the second part. THanks for the heads up, Myharl, Etheirys, et al.

half locust
spark jasper
frank flint
#

But man the style points!

somber river
#

Looks like everyone should get credit for the wyrm. Especially my alts

zinc spindle
#

Since my bugged attempt, I have been swallowed by an ooze just before we ported to the river, and then DC'd the next time when I was at the river.

But maybe my luck is looking up!

While rifling through the mutant's belongings, you find a silver-veined black draconic idol wrapped carefully in rags as if it were a precious trinket.

mint sandal
#

I am seeking a sybil group to help me finish this quest

shy tiger
#

i'm headed that direction, if you still haven't found anyone by then i'll go
about 10 minutes out, on the water right now

shy tiger
magic shore
#

was helping out with a sybil kill, and I had to leave the room to get rid of mortal tether, and I got tugged back when the group killed the sybilWith a sound like crystal breaking, the tether snaps, freeing you from its hindering grasp. Roundtime: 5 sec. R> A terrible keening catches your attention an instant before you are pulled away through the mists!I wonder if this allows quest goers to be outside the immediate sybil room and still get credit?

shy tiger
#

i've seen that on each run, it tugs you in if you aren't there

#

not sure if that specifically means you get credit if you weren't in the room; i'd have to dig through my logs to try and confirm

#

Precise arcs of golden energy slash the chthonian sybil for 32 points of damage!
Ralkean materializes out of the mists!
A cinereous chthonian sybil's eyes widen as she clutches at her chest.

the mist message from our side

shy tiger
magic shore
#

that's good to know - offers quest goers the opportunity to leave the room in order to stay alive

shadow palm
#

Letting them go clear gateways is also a nice change

regal spear
#

looking to get a group together to beat sybil already blew thru my invite so hoping to joint a group or pay into one direct message me

trim cedar
regal spear
#

how and where can i collect these supplies?

trim cedar
gaunt umbra
# regal spear how and where can i collect these supplies?

The items you need to enter the Sybil's "arena".
a stygian valravn quill - a rare drop from Valravns, found when looted
a nacreous disir feather - a rare drop from Disir, found when looted
a tiny *various colors* sphere - found by touching one of the runestones found scattered throughout the Hinterwilds. The only test here is your own patience. Eventually a mote will appear, and you need to GET it. It can take several tries, but you can also grab several spheres before it wanders off.
Place one of each, in any order, on the altar outside the arch in the Dead Pits.

#

fwiw, I will stash quills and feathers in the Herb Box in Rawknuckle's. Check there and you might get lucky.

#

Also, and I know dealing with schedules can be touchy, but if you can be around in the evenings during prime time hours, there are usually people willing to help. Just gotta ask. There is usually someone with the sybil quest ready to go, and a bunch of us are down to clown. It's not too hard to get 3 people through it with 2 pretty decent Sybil hunters.

lapis shoal
#

The attack sunders your well-honed defenses!

This took my redux seemingly from this: A silver-scaled cold wyrm's eyes whirl with glints of furious amber and sullen crimson! A silver-scaled cold wyrm lashes out with a scythe-like talon at you! Some rugged golvern plate-and-mail partially deflects the onslaught of the puncture attack. AS: +866 vs DS: +322 with AvD: +25 + d100 roll: +49 = +618 ... and hits for 10 points of damage! Minor puncture to the right arm. Spidery lines of sunflower yellow light spiral up from the point of impact, spreading over the chest of your golvern plate-and-mail. Coalescing with a burst of sunflower yellow sparks, the visage of an ethereal stalwart badger gives a fearless glare as it bares sharp

To this: Striking like lightning, a silver-scaled cold wyrm snaps at you with a maw full of serrated fangs! Some rugged golvern plate-and-mail partially deflects the onslaught of the slashing attack. AS: +716 vs DS: +340 with AvD: +25 + d100 roll: +22 = +423 ... and hits for 68 points of damage! Slash along your lower back. You are stunned for 1 rounds! The air around you pulses with a brilliant light as ribbons of pale orange energy lash forward, striking a silver-scaled cold wyrm! ... 5 points of damage! Minor burns to abdomen. Looks painful.

Considering that I have to have a thrown weapon to knock it down from flight and be able to use it, enough dodge, armor, CM, and shield use to survive the melee, enough health and ways of healing to survive the endless acid clouds that basically wound me to bleeding 60-70+ health per round, wait out the RT lock long enough to berserk out of the binding, wait out the unwardable sympathy etc. and then after all that the core defensive feature of my class becomes nullified to where all the physical conditioning my character trained for instantly and inexplicably disappears in the blink of an eye.. I question why. It seems punitive on top of spell sever.

#

I'm also curious if anyone knows if there's a message showing the effect wear off, and if so what it is, or does it last the duration of the encounter? Also, does anyone know what the duration is?

trim cedar
#

You aren't supposed to let the clouds linger - that's part of the tactics. Ensuring someone has a way to get rid of htose.

lapis shoal
trim cedar
#

Okay, so it's a wipe! Dust off and do it again. It's supposed to be hard, and failures are supposed to occur. I've spent a bunch of deeds on the wyrm, and even then comparatively very few relative to others.

The sundering exists to close the extraordinary chasm of survivability difference between squares and pures. There's a reason that the persistent groan during the months and months of testing was basically that warriors could come in with a fraction of the experience/gear and steamroll their way through the fight with success ratios orders of magnitude higher than other classes

spark jasper
lapis shoal
# trim cedar Okay, so it's a wipe! Dust off and do it again. It's supposed to be hard, and fa...

I'm not opposed to the challenge, nor the difficulty. I just find it to be a cheap way to nullify what is central to square defense, especially if it's on the guise of balancing professions against each other in response to enemies, which doesn't exist in any form across the board.

This is also why I'm curious what the duration is and if there's a dropoff, or a dropoff message to know when to open myself back up to damage, or if that's even possible, which in the case of it not, I'll be looking at boosting my maximum health to atleast survive the non-redux mstrike it deals.

I think there are better ways to handle it, and mind you, this is just my opinion, and I'm fine if it's a minority one that is eventually decided against.

untold night
lapis shoal
untold night
#

The reason I ask is that it's a stacking debuff

lapis shoal
untold night
#

Yep, it does drop off after some number of seconds

#

It should show up in the Debuffs window and SPELL ACTIVE

#

Are you KS? I'm wondering about your DS

lapis shoal
#

Sounds good then. I wasn't aware it was a cumulative stack, but if it drops off then maybe that's a possibility to just tank in between. No, I'm neither KS, nor Spell based. I sit the middle. I like to play with spell based gadgetry but I avoid Peri learning enough spells to reduce his redux level. That run had 215, 211, 606, and a small statue, but that clip is also bearing like.. rank 2 wounds on every inch of him.

untold night
#

I gotcha

lapis shoal
#

His standing offense DS is in the mid 500's unwounded

untold night
#

I think we need to do more with tanking/taunting for boss fights. TBD exactly what that looks like, but I suspect that you'd need more DS in order to be a main tank for the wyrm

lapis shoal
pallid kestrel
untold night
pallid kestrel
#

which mind you i don't think are really problems o utside of this encounter, lol

it's just scaling to a degree that things start to fall off the rails

untold night
#

I think we want to do more of this type of encounter though, so it's good to be mindful of these shortcomings and think about how to solve them

lapis shoal
untold night
#

I do think that we need different roles in the fight

#

And maybe the creature's redux needs to be ratcheted up so that physical isn't so dominant?

rugged cave
lapis shoal
shadow palm
untold night
#

I don't think it would be one isolated change necessarily

onyx jewel
# untold night I think we want to do more of this type of encounter though, so it's good to be ...

I really enjoy these kinds of encounters, but if the goal is to have the same kind of holy trinity that many online games use, Empaths definitely need a few updates (healing a single person of the several level 3 and 2 wounds something like the Wyrm causes in a single strike can take more than a minute, even when using the 30-minute Rapid Healing cooldown).

1150, which is limited to x/day rather than x/minute like 950, is the only way I've been able to effectively deal with the group's wounds in the wyrm or sybil encounter.

untold night
#

(I hate to say it because I know that nerfs feel bad)

onyx jewel
#

You say that, as I had to use Symbol of Restoration to get a warrior through the wyrm yesterday maybe 20-40 times. 🤣 It's the only thing that let him survive throughout the fight.

weary barn
untold night
onyx jewel
untold night
#

I would guess that KS is particularly poorly suited for the wyrm right now

#

Poor DS, and their redux is going to get sundered

#

And maul, yeah

#

That's pretty rough

#

But if we had better group boss fight mechanics then maybe that character could be DPS while somebody else tanks

untold night
shadow palm
#

I got my 9m exp KS warrior through the wyrm last night, gear + enhancives help but you can get you AS around 700 which is a decent contribution + redux + weapon/guild/cmans he survived the encounter. I'm a LOT more confident getting him through than an equally exp character in any other class.

weary barn
untold night
#

But that's the sort of direction I think makes more sense than leaving symbol of restoration as-is

#

Since every class has access to symbol of restoration

gaunt umbra
#

We just got someone (Mellchiah) through the Sybil fight, and as they were literally in the room with the corpse, couldn't infuse their gem.

#

Got a lockbox and everything

shy tiger
#

weird
got a lockbox, so they got hits in? and did they summon?

untold night
#

What does their MISSION GEM say?

#

And what message do they get when they infuse?

gaunt umbra
#

Mellchiah was still being told to find the evil under the Pits or whatever, while he was holding a lockbox.

#

My only thought is he died before the scripted death, and was raised, and got to the end... I'd have to look over the log.

shy tiger
#

they for sure got damage in?
the only time i've seen someone not get credit was they never got through

prisma crane
past trout
#

Positioning that takes advantage of terrain and the environment!

prisma crane
# spark jasper Not trying to be a jerk. But having fought 100's of wyrms now. This is the desig...

This is how I feel about it as well, I think. Wipes happen. SSR/SMR open rolls happen. It is frustrating, and while in the moment I'm sometimes irate about it, that's part of the challenge. Had a wyrm hunting crew wipe recently. My own response: Kick a tree, curse, and rub some dirt on it (try to find a tactic that minimizes impact).

Side note: I fell my 300th wyrm last night, ironically the exact same moment a friend of Myharl's capped (like within the same second); was weird. 😄

gaunt umbra
#

So we were able to confirm something just a bit ago. If someone dies on the second half (post-scripted death) of the Sybil encounter, but the rest of the group succeeds... they will be on the "Infuse your gemstone now!" part of the quest.

If they are not able to be field rezzed, there are two things. Firstly, they will lose their ability to 'touch altar', since they're not longer on that quest step and don't have the 'power coursing through them' or however it goes.

The GOOD NEWS is. If you're on the "Infuse" part of the quest. You just gotta get back in there. You'll be able to "Infuse Gem" the moment you're back in the sybil's area.

summer dove
gaunt umbra
pallid kestrel
#

it does get weird cause, really gemstone definitely isn't built for that kinda role based combat. most people that are tanky enough for the fight just kind of are cause class mechanics that mostly flatline with creature raw stat scaling (obviously the sunder defense changes this) they aren't like some low damage tank spec. Comparatively very few players are built to just be "tanky" ( i know some do) it just kinda happens. most people are just built for killing stuff day to day so i dunno if there needs to be some kind of mechanic that kind of enables tankiness specifically for the fight and somehow you can leverage other stats to facilitate that at the expense of damage.

like i.e. you position yourself in front of the dragon, your attacks do less damage but that's translated somehow into "threat" and damage mitigation for yourself. like you keep poking / shooting it in the eye and it's big mad at you but <insert magical / martial messaging about deflecting its attacks>

#

or at a minimum if the bosses more telegraphed targets they were focusing on you'd at least have some more hope if surviving if you co uld react to that and D up with stance/cooldowns instead of just "oh it mstriked you this round, gg."

shy tiger
gaunt umbra
#

What I'm saying is... even if you're kicked out for being dead too long or can't field raise, so long as you have the "infuse" part of your quest unlocked. You just have to get back into the Sybil's area and infuse. You don't HAVE to kill the Sybil again. I mean, you're in there... so you should

prisma crane
# untold night I think we need to do more with tanking/taunting for boss fights. TBD exactly wh...

Square support roles should be more useful in some way. I've been intentionally joining wyrm groups that were already full, and using guard + guardmaster on one of the quest goers, while I spend the entire battle taunting, clearing acid mists with a rod, and trying to pull people to their feet (mitigating as much damage as possible, so I don't land in the top 5 dps). Usually pop my tent and open it up as well so folks have a "trench" to duck into if needed. The taunt works great on the mobs that spawn, it keeps the heat off of the crew seeking the wyrm kill, but it's way less effective against the wyrm (I'm guessing that's an effective level issue). Would be neat to have a similiar mechanic related to boss fights that could be utilized more effectively.

shy tiger
gaunt umbra
#

I've been operating under the assumption they have to do the whole fight again, but nah. Soon as that part of the quest is unlocked, you just need to be back behind the arch, infuse gem, and done. Finish the sybil if you want.

spark jasper
prisma crane
# untold night Yeah, that makes sense. And I hate to say it... but symbol of restoration probab...

Heh, I have blown through... 30 million? favor, using restoration to keep on my feet during wyrm hunts. I actually ran out of favor for the first time in decades mid-battle with a wyrm crew last night, and it led to a party wipe. Going to be rough if we start disabling society skills on top of hindering mechanics and spell sever. Would certianly make it more challenging, but I hate to see the battles block everything earned while rewarding those who pay cash for abilities at DR via gear/abilities. I've been vocal about hoping that doesn't become the case.

If it becomes a thing where I have to pay large sums of cash to be viable, I'm not really interested (or capable) of participating.

summer dove
#

I've already mostly stopped fighting the wyrm. If one of the few advantages I have to staying alive is nerfed. I will never fight her again.

untold night
#

When I say that symbol of favor might need to be throttled, are you guys thinking that that change would be made in isolation with no other changes?

prisma crane
untold night
#

It’s not great gameplay, right? I think we should aim to do better

spark jasper
#

I could see a 30 second cooldown on symbol of restoration making sense. (Dont murder me folks)

summer dove
#

I like the sybil fight, it takes tactics into play. The wyrm is just a one-sided DS check. (Can you take a 900-1000AS attack.)

trim cedar
#

Yeah, there is zero doubt in my mind that symbol of restoration (and sleep for that matter) are way too strong and should have a cooldown at the very least. They have saved my but in many scenarios in which I probably had no business surviving

gaunt umbra
#

I always feel guilty using symbol of sleep because it's basically cheese.

spark jasper
#

"Tactics" depend on class for each of the fights.
As a rogue, I have more tactics in the wyrm fight than the sybil fight. To me, the sybil fight is much more of a one-sided DS check.

trim cedar
#

But, like 1035, I will certainly enjoy the benefits while they last 😆

summer dove
#

We can make the RT reduction provided by 1035 Bard only. I support that change today, right now.

prisma crane
# summer dove I like the sybil fight, it takes tactics into play. The wyrm is just a one-side...

Wyrm tactics = gaming the system, go hard (it feels much more chaotic to me). Sybil tactics = planned routine, go hard. Both battles require planning, skill, and effort in differnet ways. Sure, I can lob 20k damage at a wyrm and do everything I can to keep from getting crit killed by an open roll or crushed in 30 seconds of RT, but the flip side to that is I'm basically ineffective against the sybil, and without very high end gear most squares always will be. I kind of enjoy the balance between the two battles, and think it's much more indicative of the weird gap between the two experiences in the GS combat system.

summer dove
magic shore
#

Regarding bosses... I love how sigil of determination allows me to actually tank hits without being disabled; and conversely I feel for those who don't have it and don't want to switch their society for a single battle (obviously). I do wonder if something should be done about wound stacking. I wouldn't want it to invalidate advantages from sigil of determination, armor reinforcement, etc. But I'm sure it feels super lame for many to get hit for 5 damage from acid cloud and get disabled from a stacking R2 hand injury. Maybe actively using herbs during combat is already a solution. That always feels quite awkward though, even assisted by scripts and survival kits. I guess I don't have a good solution in mind. Just musing over some thoughts.

prisma crane
#

I do think wound stacking needs a closer look, particularly regarding damage-to-stacking ratio. I think there needs to be some additional damage threshold that has to be crossed before tiering up. This would also provide value to damage padding, which has very little use presently.

shy tiger
#

i feel like damage padding has value/use, just less so if you're already juiced with redux and 2-3x pt

if you're a pure and can only 1x pt it can be the difference between surviving an mstrike or not

summer dove
#

I suggested moving from a 1-3 rank system to a 1-5 rank system. But both minimum HP damage for wound + 1-5 rank system would be great.

prisma crane
untold night
shy tiger
hard fractal
#

Question...did a sybil run earlier on my cleric, died twice but we killed it, I got the lockbox, but still couldn't infuse my gem. Just says "You are not prepared to infuse that."

Before that run I was on another run and touched the altar, but then had to bail unexpectedly. Did that mess something up and if so, how would I fix it?

untold night
hard fractal
#

Ilyra has revealed that you must vanquish the ancient power in the Dead Pits beneath Angargreft. Once the mysterious fiend has been defeated, you will claim its raw power!

Still says I need to kill the sybil, I'm just not sure why I didn't get credit.

untold night
#

Hmm. This is on Methais?

hard fractal
#

No, my cleric Mellchiah

untold night
#

Gotcha

#

Sorry about that. I'll chat with Auchand.

hard fractal
#

Thanks I appreciate it

shy tiger
hard fractal
gaunt umbra
#

I don't think that will work here. You need the "infuse" quest step

#

You hit sybil during the fight after phase 2? That's the only thing I can think of as to why it didn't unlock the next step in the quest

untold night
hard fractal
#

I didn't see that when I scrolled up. I'm not sure if I died too fast to get a hit in during the 2nd phase. I'll see if I have it logged and check

summer dove
#

Are you sure you got a lockbox on the cleric?

I can also help kill the sybil.

shy tiger
magic shore
#

I have a wizard alt that I would love to get carried through sybil, can open the portal if Alastir is available for DPS and Methais cleric can ride along and rez me if I die 😆

shy tiger
#

i'm available to be webby boy too if needed

hard fractal
#

double checking the lockbox part, juggling work...

summer dove
hard fractal
#

get lock
You remove a scale-etched hoarbeam lockbox brushed with vibrant azure lacquer from in your flowing red cape.

look in my lock
In the hoarbeam lockbox:
uncommon,weapon (1): a dark azure deringo runestaff.
gem (5): some dark ivory aranthium-bloom (2), a brilliant snowblind diamond, a large yellow diamond, a red-clouded black moonstone.

Apparently this is what I thought I picked up. I'm guessing it's my wyrm lockbox and I forgot to loot it yesterday.

That's what I get for trying to do this at work.

EDIT: Just did another run and got some damage in this time and got credit

viral apex
prisma crane
#

A little while back I used a freebie fixskill to move some cman/shield skills around, and decided to "ooc" play around with Myharl a bit sans kroderine soul. While the absence of the magic redux and absorb feat were quite noticeable due to my typical hunting routines, in just standard combat, Myharl steamrolled when stacked with spells. I understand why spell sever is a thing.

viral apex
#

I'm usually not a fan of when area or boss mechanics target a particular class, if the class doesn't have other paths or ways to address the challenge. I think Peri's situation is the unfortunate result of over-indexing on a class mechanic because of how powerful KS tuning currently is, and, him opting to go down the path of neither KS or Spells. Given the current class distribution of the player base, I'm not sure we even want to reinforce typical class roles though for raids/boss fights. That alone is an interesting design challenge. However, there's likely some benefit to evaluating aggro/taunt mechanics further.

prisma crane
#

It definitely a choice. I find that I lean a lot more into using absorb as a setup for combat than anything else. I get in the groove of knowing whatever first cast gets off isn't going to affect Myharl when he busts into a swarm in full offensive with the intent of stunning all/most of them before they can cast again.

ocean horizon
#

Not sure I can get behind the idea of spending significant dev time or design time on improving group dynamics for boss battles that most characters are only going to engage with a handful of times (and that the ones who engage with a ton are already well capable of handling).

That said, I could get behind it if I believed that group content intended for characters to go through repeatedly (individually) were on the horizon.

prisma crane
ocean horizon
#

If we're supposed to fight future bosses over and over, then sure. They'd need better rewards (and/or lower difficulty) than the current ones to entice most players, though.

prisma crane
#

Or unlock substantial boosts for the relevant area maybe. Could see that being a draw. Go in, run the boss, get the boost, go hunting for the duration.

past trout
#

40-person raid bosses with weekly lockout

gaunt umbra
ocean horizon
past trout
gaunt umbra
#

I honestly feel the wyrm is a little overtuned, but that is a... conversation.

shadow palm
#

Auchand has mentioned a few times that he thinks the system is a good model for future hunting grounds to build on

ocean horizon
#

I suppose I'm just concerned about more situations like the wyrm that had to go through literally years of tweaking to arrive at the point it's now. I actually think the point it's at now is fine, by the way. I just definitely would have rather seen, say, two new hunting grounds if it came down to one or the other.

Edit: And, honestly, carefully considering and redesigning every profession's toolkit--and apparently we're looking at society toolkits too--seems like it would take far, far, far longer than balancing one wyrm boss. At some point it becomes overly fixating on a facet of the game that isn't (at least currently) even related to how most playtime is spent.

shy tiger
spark jasper
spark jasper
#

Just FYI - natural wyrm timer is coming up soon! Should arrive between 2:56pm CST and 4:11pm CST
You can watch for it's arrival here:
https://discord.gg/eWBrFv4u

frosty escarp
#

Is this a cult?

shy tiger
past trout
#

the grand poobah said you have to know evil to fight evil

spark jasper
#

Food for thought - could an idol summon have different messaging when the wyrm comes in?
Even if it is just prefaced with something like The blaze of an inferno rages in the sky... or something

past trout
#

or just give the idol group the message instead of the whole area

spark jasper
#

but part of the wyrms charm is how she messes with everyone whlie she flies around. Wouldn't want to lose all that.

raven oak
#

I saw Auchand ask about what we thought might be causing insta death during phase change, could it be DoT effects that piled on before?

prisma crane
raven oak
#

Oh ok.. my bad guess I’m behind the times

shadow palm
#

It does mean Ralkean has the high score though

prisma crane
austere moss
#

You could just make everyone incorporeal for boss fights

ocean horizon
gaunt umbra
#

...if I show you the log of me soloing a wyrm with a drake dagger and no 1035 will you remove the "ultra high end gear" part? My stuff doesn't even have flair affinity or flourishes.

ocean horizon
#

Then I'd say ultra high end exp? 😛

gaunt umbra
#

I have a sweet gamer chair.

ocean horizon
#

I should maybe clarify that I'm lumping enhancives under "gear" since your AS is kind of nuts.

shadow palm
#

sk608 and 2 second waylays are looking at you real suspiciously

spark jasper
#

Yeah. We’re gonna have to rewrite the rogue section for ya. 😉

ocean horizon
#

Heh, already on it.

spark jasper
#

Standard rogues should be waylaying from hiding.
250-500 damage per hit.

#

Webbing the wyrm when it goes airborne.
Unstunning folks when they can.

ocean horizon
#

It's difficult to write assuming that a standard rogue has the exp to Web. That was a challenge with the guide in general, really: what level of exp, items, enhancives, etc. is it assumed that the audience I'm writing for has?

Good call on unstun, though. That should be in general tips, if anything, for both bosses.

spark jasper
#

Other things I’d add from getting my alts through it (some as low as 12m exp) - SMR spells for pures were very reliable for me.

Low exp Clerics can hit the wyrm with 309 consistently.

Wizards can go with 917.

#

I do agree it’s a challenging thing to write a guide for, especially since people play professions so differently, and 10m to 20m exp can be vastly different experiences, depending on the prof

shadow palm
#

The cleric guide is basically fixprof or be independently wealthy 😆

spark jasper
#

Nah... 309 and get carried 😉

austere moss
#

Leafiara be hating on empaths 😦

ocean horizon
#

Empaths? They're #3 in the sybil fight and I said in the wyrm fight that I'd buy a case for moving them up as high as #4 even though I had them at #7.

ocean horizon
deft basin
#

what exactly is sundered defense supposed to do? i can't tell

prisma crane
#

Drops redux to minimum.

deft basin
#

oh ok that makes sense ugh

prisma crane
#

It's why Myharl does stuff like loose arms while in Wyrmreach now. 🤣

minor locust
austere moss
#

If we had the empath bloodstone jewelry I'd never die during the wyrm fight. The only reason I die right now is the binding effect that lasts an eternity.

minor locust
#

I join the sybil any time I get a chance but I’m likely never fighting the wyrm again

gaunt umbra
#

I think I kinda prefer the sybil fight, too. The opt-in arena concept with area threats that need to be addressed is chefkiss

I do feel for my non-magerogue brothers and sisters, tho. Not much to do unless you have certain cmans (shield bash, spell thieve, etc)

lapis roost
#

I get these points. The sybil fight is really well done and I enjoy that fight immensely. There's just something about fighting a dragon that clicks a yes switch in my brain, though.

austere moss
#

If they coded a special command for these bosses that allowed anyone to taunt the boss for 30 seconds with a 1 minute cooldown between uses that could solve some issues.

All single target attacks whether physical or magical would be focused on the character that successfully taunts.

Any profession can use the "taunt" command but success is based on level (with transcend destiny improving success), combat maneuver ranks, influence, and discipline.

1608 should be changed to automatic success against bosses but can't be chain cast by the same paladin. You would need 2 paladins to lock down a boss.

#

Questions I have is does adamantine bulwark reduce RT inflicted by the wyrm?
If a physical attack would inflict Roundtime (RT) on you, it inflicts 20%/ 35%/ 50% less RT at Ranks 1/ 2/ 3.

Also, I think shields need to provide critical and damage padding.

Small 1 cer crit+dmg
Medium 2 cer crit+dmg
Large 3 cer crit+dmg
Tower 4 cer crit+dmg

As a base line. At least in my head it makes sense that anyone using a shield is just going to take less damage and wounds than someone that is not. Some shield specializations should be improved to provide damage padding and critical padding during their activation periods too.

spark jasper
#

It died after relatively little damage at the river phase and the 3 folks who needed credit and participated the whole fight (making it to the river) did not receive it.

Unit attempts to kick a silver-scaled cold wyrm!
  UAF: 734 vs UDF: 459 = 1.599 * MM: 123 + d100: 25 = 221
  ... and hit for 96 points of damage!
  Strong roundhouse penetrates the chest!  The cold wyrm seems to have lost heart for this fight!

Belching a toxic mix of acid and blood from her maw, the wyrm struggles for purchase on the disc, but her titanic musculature has no more strength within it.  The wyrm topples over the side, dissolving into motes of color as she plummets out of sight.  Her death throes manage to upend the platform, and you fall into the abyss, hurtling after the dying wyrm.

Folks that were there (+me):

A circular disc of hammered metal drifts amidst banks of prismatic mist, gleaming as if freshly polished.  Ribbons of color ripple and crackle in the distance, stretching beyond the limits of eyesight.  Pulses travel along the glowing threads, their rhythms as regular as the beating of a heart.  You also see a silver-scaled cold wyrm and obvious signs of someone hiding.
Also here: Kave who is lying down, Wayward Loxik who is lying down and hiding, High Legionnaire Aureliano who is lying down, Unit who is lying down
Obvious paths: out```
#

No one got credit, or a lockbox, for that matter (no lockbox for Aureliano or I either)

frank flint
#

I guess I have something to remember the fight by. It was fun to kick a dragon

pallid kestrel
#

who will be the first to kill the wyrm with gkick

warm snow
#

I was part of that group with Kontii

valid saddle
#

UCS is still a problem.

#

I think we have a solution, but doing some testing.

warm snow
#

Will it be possible to get credit for that one?

frank flint
#

I had put an assist in after that wyrm kill this morning. Is that something we should do?

hard fractal
spark jasper
#

I say we give Unit a Tigerclaw.... go back and fight it again. You can be the first one to tickle the wyrm to death

iron spoke
woeful lodge
#

Has it been officially stated that gemstone drops reset on Sunday?

ocean horizon
# 
Can we clarify if the week reset is Lumnis/Resource reset? Or like... Sunday

Nyxus — 3/12/2025 8:48 AM
Sunday```
```Alastir — 3/13/2025 2:06 PM
Still want to know the answer to this if anyone knows.

If a GM would clarify what time the Sunday reset happens that would be appreciated.  Saturday 2359 -> Sunday 0000?

Nyxus — 3/13/2025 2:11 PM
I don't know, but it's the same as the login week....

Leafiara — 3/13/2025 2:11 PM
Login days start at 0000, yeah.```
woeful lodge
#

Thanks Leafi, I'm having some awful luck this week it seems 🙂

rugged cave
#

We need a FAQ post that gets pinned

spark jasper
prisma crane
#

I'm pretty sure I was hovering around 1,000 kills this week before I found my second gemstone. The first one I found was fairly quick, maybe 200 kills.

woeful lodge
#

I haven't counted kills but I'm over 100k experience for the week without a drop. So I figured something must be wonky. Probably just bad RNG

ocean horizon
#

Heh, people have gotten to 5k kills without a second Gemstone, so 1k is extremely lucky.

magic shore
#

it's just gem 2 for the month is much harder than gem 1, as anticipated

woeful lodge
#

That's what I'm thinking, everyone I've seen get one this week just finished their sybil this week too.

summer dove
#

We're going to have to start offering gemstone hunting services - 5m per hour!

magic shore
woeful lodge
trim cedar
#

I found 2nd gems in under 50, and well over 2000 searches. They’re a fickle thing for sure

prisma crane
#

I figure saving up to buy the gemstones I want will likely be the most realistic route. I might get lucky with a few worth trading, or maybe even a couple good ones I want to keep, but my 52 chances at a gemstones/year isn't going to compete with an MA crew of 5's 260/year, or 10-man crew's 520/year. I'm super glad these can be unbound, and look forward to seeing where the gemstones market stabilizes when the new wears off.

past trout
#

you're limited to 3 per character per month still, so it's even less than 52/yr

prisma crane
#

Oh, wow, that's right. 36 (single), 180 (5 crew), and 360 (10 crew). Same ratio, but smaller quantity.

trim cedar
#

Yeah, 36 max, and sounds like even that’s pretty unlikely

ocean horizon
#

So far I'm definitely not on track to get 2 Gemstones per month per character, heh. More like 1.25 to 1.5 on average.

Edit: Then again, Gemstones didn't exist for the first week of March, so I suppose I'll have more time and chances in April. But that assumes I want to keep up the pace even though it's so far not paid off.

shadow palm
#

You can only keep 20 in your gemstone inventory though right? lockers full of gemstones!

spark jasper
#

yeah, the way week #2 is going, i'm guessing the #3 gem each month is going to be a much more rare sighting

rugged cave
#

Has anyone found a third?

trim cedar
shadow palm
#

True, I haven't dusted any yet I'm just storing them until a gigas gets down on one kneel and makes the the happiest guy ever and offers me a legendary foreverstone

trim cedar
#

Beatings will continue until moral rewards improve?

prisma crane
rugged cave
#

I wasn't sure, with that odd day or so before the 1/week limit was there....or maybe I am remembering wrong

prisma crane
#

Hmm, didn't think about that. Could be! There was like two days after quest release before the next Sunday, but that was also before the limit announcement. Not sure who might have found one that weekend and/or if that applied to "week 1" or not.

spark jasper
#

I can confirm... 3 gemstones have been found by some already based on those extra days and prior to the 1 per week change.

deft basin
#

what do you mean 3? like 3 in addition to the journeyman's?

spark jasper
#

yes, meaning there are characters that have found 3 separate gemstones...
2 were found in the first few days, prior to the 1 per week announcement/update occurred

deft basin
#

i have my journeyman's and three others

spark jasper
#

So you would be one of those characters! 🍻

frank flint
#

Any up for the Sybil fight? I'm on that part of the gemstone quest that started with this morning's wyrm kill

obsidian pulsar
#

Sure

frank flint
#

Alright, thinkwe have what we need

#

if you'd like to join me at village center

obsidian pulsar
#

Train depart?

ocean horizon
#

Done eight sybil fights in one day and there's technically still time for possibly more. 🤣

shy tiger
#

yeah the runs can be pretty quick if things go well

summer dove
#

If I'm around I'm always good for a sybil fight.

half locust
#

I am mildly disappointed that I cannot headbutt a sybil

#

I realize the fight is focused to non-squares, but is what why headbutt is not allowed? Did not have time to 'describe sybil' for a description. I had a kroderine greathelm and looked forward to some headbutt, dispels, spikes, and poison.

deft basin
#

i think Wizard FLICK is disabled at Wyrmreach? Not sure why that would be the case - but the block is normally reserved for non-magic areas

half locust
#

I also noted that dirtkick and bearhug cannot be used, in addition to headbutt. Updated my battle plans accordingly!

wary venture
#

just out of curiosity:

is it possible for at the sybil boss fight for when a paladin gets raised after we die the first time (due to mechanics of the fight), that we get back the aura that we had when we entered the room vs it just defaulting to ferver since we can't change it til it gets off cooldown (which I think is a min or so? ofhand can't rememeber but i know there's a CD to change)

That way if you go in with zealot aura, you have Zealot when raised
If you go in with Divine Shield, then you have Divine Shield when raised
If you go in with Fervor, then you have Fervor when raised

only asking for the sybil fight. that said, it would be nice to have some sort of way for a paladin to have a way to decide what mana spellup uses for an aura but honestly, more asking for at least the sybil fight since each aura is part of the "build" for whatever their skill setup is. Like a two hander user (or even two weapon combat user) wouldn't want Divine Shield obviously.

half locust
#

I know that bug / lack of feature was brought up in #paladins when discussing QoL with Nyxus. I am 95% sure that lack-of-feature exists outside of the sybil fight if raised with Divine Word.

wary venture
#

I'm taking an educated guess it's based off mana spellup for what you get raised with

half locust
#

I think cooldown is 60 seconds, but yeah. If you're using Divine Word (or Sybil fight), you are in the battle and want to continue.
As a default, I prefer Fervor myself... as I usually use that in groups, and if I am raised with someone else's divine word, then I must be in a group. I agree it would be nice to "keep the aura it used before"

wary venture
#

i'm already done on the quest, but i try to help folks these days, though i'd imagine others would want that when they have to do the sybil later. that's still a long time to wait to change it for one fight that's already chaotic

Fervor I sometimes use but 99 percent of the time it's zealot for me 🙂 especially for the fights where you want 700ish AS

pallid kestrel
#

the random aura when you sym recall or whatever is weird. i also need to double check i think maybe my monk lost his focus spell, maybe meditation and stance? all pretty annoying to have to put back up (and meditation is effectively just gone if it doesn't come back up since it's 30 second rt)

lapis roost
#

I think the wyrm is still glitchy around UAC.

[SMR result: 93 (Open d100: 11, Bonus: 45)]
Relentless in his assault, Yndrael unleashes a frenzy of violence upon a silver-scaled cold wyrm!
Yndrael attempts to kick a silver-scaled cold wyrm!
  UAF: 870 vs UDF: 493 = 1.764 * MM: 120 + d100: 4 = 215
  ... and hit for 95 points of damage!
  Perfectly targeted flying kick drives foot through center of chest!  Doesn't that just break your heart?

Belching a toxic mix of acid and blood from her maw...```

That ended the fight prematurely and no one got credit, a lockbox or saturation. Just a heads up!
minor locust
#

Is it UCS or am I just built different? 💅🏻

spark jasper
#

That happened to us yesterday

austere moss
#

What’s the smr result referring to there?

magic shore
#

looks like SMR roll for stat boost at the beginning of an assault

spare dragon
#

UCS kill strike breaks the wyrm quest credit/lockbox/big game hunter credit #1329223489487372408 message

minor locust
lapis roost
#

I dont want to ping, but Auchand, a few of us that have been questing after wyrms for a while want to throw together an in game order around it and want to make sure we don't step on any toes with you, if you have a minute to chat about it at some point.

vagrant tiger
#

UCS stacks Rank 3 crits to death crits. Thats probably whats bypassing the crit death protection on the wyrm.

half locust
#

I was warned by Friday's group, and used katar only on my brawler when fighting the wyrm.

spark jasper
#

Auchand - a team just died in the river of color.... wyrm went out back into Fjallarhart, and got slain, but the group that was in the river didn not receive credit. They were stuck in the river.

A circular disc of hammered metal drifts amidst banks of prismatic mist, gleaming as if freshly polished.  Ribbons of color ripple and crackle in the distance, stretching beyond the limits of eyesight.  Pulses travel along the glowing threads, their rhythms as regular as the beating of a heart.  You also see a silver-scaled cold wyrm.
Also here: the body of Felarion who is lying down, the body of Tinkerer Illithek who is lying down, the body of Deddalus who is lying down```
Not sure if that's intentional or not, but just wanted you to be looped in!
subtle cedar
spark jasper
#

What was weird, was they didn't get pushed out of the River, which is what normally happens when the wyrm leaves

leaden bane
#

is there even a point to attempting this until I am significantly post-cap? I worry my AS won't be high enough

past trout
#

depends on if you can reliably hunt ascension areas. if you can, it's not hard to get a carry through the wyrm/sybil fights. but if you can't regularly hunt ascension, there's no rush

leaden bane
#

definitely can solo most of the hinterwilds, just never had much luck against wyrms before gemstones were a thing

past trout
#

definitely do the quest then, lots of people will be willing to help with weakening the wyrm/sybil so you can hit it

leaden bane
#

I think the only normal creatures in HW I can't solo are the disir and angargriest

ocean horizon
#

Even if your AS isn't high enough for the wyrm, you can just Hamstring it or use whatever other damaging maneuvers you might have in your arsenal.

The sybil's rougher because a large number of maneuvers don't work on it due to no body parts, but you just need heavy team support with debuffs, dispels, and immobilization against the sybil plus AS buffs for you (Zealot, Carn's Cry, Kai's Triumph Song, Benediction, Spirit Strike, whatever it takes) and you can get in there.

minor locust
# 

 ** Your black and grey handwraps glow brightly for a moment, consuming the magical energies around the chthonian sybil! **

You hear the soft tinkle of rolling dice, followed by the sound of coins dropping!
SMR SvD: +31 + Bonus: +27 + o100 roll: +89 == +147
A swirling ashen barrier around a cinereous chthonian sybil deflects the attack.```Is that an anti-dispel shield she has? Never noticed that before. Hax!
shadow palm
#

~~You sure it's not a tethered flux?~~Looked back at the log it's def not

minor locust
#

I don't know tethered flux by name, so I guess maybe it's that? The rest of that fury worked though and I didn't get any messaging during the assault about the tether

terse haven
#

Anyone available to help a Sybil group through? Got two new folks who need credit, and a Cleric to help out, just need a carrier or two

obsidian pulsar
#

Get this done Delindra? I can come up

terse haven
#

Yes Jaired gave us a carry, smooth as butter!

spark jasper
#

The tethered says something like you are going to inevitably fail or doomed for failure

inland pendant
#

Some strangeness on last Wyrm fight.. Des was in the Hanging Gardens chasing around Mutants and was suddenly pulled into Wyrmreach mid Wyrm fight which was happening in Berserker’s End. No clue how that happened. I’ve bugged it.

#

I’m blaming UCS, somehow..

pallid kestrel
#

that's actually really funny and you may not be wrong. like maybe the bugged kill made it not reset its contribution tracking somehow.

inland pendant
#

That’s kind of what I’m thinking.. was quite the surprise nonetheless

shadow palm
#

Did someone in the group do 0 damage so it pulled a random?

inland pendant
#

Possibly? But I wasn’t even in the room or fight just in the same area, technically.

pallid kestrel
#

man that dragon is a jerk. "there isn't a 5th person who challenged me enough, so we're doing a lottery of innocent bystanders"

inland pendant
#

Well she chose wrong.. got my lockbox after all 💪

prisma crane
#

(innocent bystander eagerly awaiting random wyrm attack)

trim cedar
#

Auchand: I observed and documented an apparent bug with #paladins auras with regard to the Sybil fight (1617 AS benefits remain active even when aura changed). Have BUGged in game with this same link
#paladins message

shadow palm
#

uh we broke it?

spark jasper
#

lol.... poor Zoleta just used their 3rd idol and this happens:

Vallera swings a bloodsoul vultite falchion at a silver-scaled cold wyrm!
  AS: +695 vs DS: +480 with AvD: +21 + d100 roll: +91 = +327
   ... and hits for 236 points of damage!
   Slash to the cold wyrm's left leg hits high!
   Kinda makes your knees weak, huh?

Eyes whirling sluggishly, nearly insensate from the ravages of battle, the wyrm lifts her head and raises one gleaming claw.  Staggering from the effort, she braces herself and roars with a fury that makes the surroundings shiver.  Power crackles along her scales in wildly dancing threads of rainbowed light.  She spreads her wings wide, and a river of color surges through the surroundings, emanating from every direction.  The wyrm vanishes amid the torrent of hues.

A wash of colored light consumes Tijay.
With a sudden lurching sensation, the world dissolves in a flash of colored light.  A sense of incredible scope tugs at your being, as if you are being spread over a vast distance, but abruptly, you materialize elsewhere, lying flat on your back.
[River of Color, Wyrmreach - ] (u7503991)
A circular disc of hammered metal drifts amidst banks of prismatic mist, gleaming as if freshly polished.  Ribbons of color ripple and crackle in the distance, stretching beyond the limits of eyesight.  Pulses travel along the glowing threads, their rhythms as regular as the beating of a heart.  You also see a silver-scaled cold wyrm.
Also here: a stunned High Lord Tijay who is lying down and immobilized
Obvious paths: out
Roundtime: 15 sec.
A wash of colored light deposits the prone form of Vallera.
A wash of colored light deposits the prone form of Hoy.
A wash of colored light deposits the prone form of Zoleta.
PR>look
[River of Color, Wyrmreach - ] (u7503991)
A circular disc of hammered metal drifts amidst banks of prismatic mist, gleaming as if freshly polished.  Ribbons of color ripple and crackle in the distance, stretching beyond the limits of eyesight.  Pulses travel along the glowing threads, their rhythms as regular as the beating of a heart.  You also see a silver-scaled cold wyrm that appears dead.
Also here: the body of Zoleta who is lying down, the body of Hoy who is lying down, Vallera who is lying down, a stunned High Lord Tijay who is lying down and immobilized
Obvious paths: out
PR>```
@valid saddle
shadow palm
# 
With a sudden lurching sensation, the world dissolves in a flash of colored light.  A sense of incredible scope tugs at your being, as if you are being spread over a vast distance, but abruptly, you materialize elsewhere, lying flat on your back.
[River of Color, Wyrmreach -  - ] (u7503991)
A circular disc of hammered metal drifts amidst banks of prismatic mist, gleaming as if freshly polished.  Ribbons of color ripple and crackle in the distance, stretching beyond the limits of eyesight.  Pulses travel along the glowing threads, their rhythms as regular as the beating of a heart.  You also see a silver-scaled cold wyrm.
Obvious paths: out
Roundtime: 15 sec.
A wash of colored light deposits the prone form of Kontii.
A wash of colored light deposits the prone form of Vallera.
A wash of colored light deposits the prone form of Hoy.
A wash of colored light deposits the prone form of Zoleta.
!SIPJR>
You are still stunned.
!SIPJR>stance d
You are still stunned.
!SIPJR>stance d
You are still stunned.
!SIPJR>stance d
You are still stunned.
!SIPJR>
The restricting force enveloping you fades away.
!SPJR>stance defensive
...wait 12 seconds.
!PJR>
Kontii lets out a cheer!
!PJR>
Color leaches from the scales of the mighty cold wyrm as they lose their vital sheen, degenerating into a lustrous substance with a hue reminiscent of anthracite, but streaked through with veins of flashing silver.  Soon, all that remains is a tenebrous stone monument resembling the wyrm in her death throes.
[You have been awarded 13 Long Term Experience!]```
spark jasper
#

oh, and we're all still hanging in the River of color - if that helps:

A circular disc of hammered metal drifts amidst banks of prismatic mist, gleaming as if freshly polished.  Ribbons of color ripple and crackle in the distance, stretching beyond the limits of eyesight.  Pulses travel along the glowing threads, their rhythms as regular as the beating of a heart.  You also see a silver-shot black stone wyrm, the Vallera disk and a fickle mountain spirit that is flying around.
Also here: Zoleta, Hoy, Vallera, High Lord Tijay
Obvious paths: out
>```
shadow palm
#

Just for the record also this was a summoned wyrm so Zoleta is out an idol for it

spark jasper
#

her 3rd idol/attempt at that.... i feel really bad here

minor locust
#

I wasn’t even logged in I’m in the clear on this one. Totally exonerated, thank you!

I am still long like 4 idols I’ll pass her one if she still needs next time I’m in game

shadow palm
pallid kestrel
#

I thought you said wyrmwhacker and I felt…concerned.

shadow palm
valid saddle
#

What happened and how?

shadow palm
#

Vallera hit it with a more unique weapon script flare and it insta died on the reach and no one got credit

untold night
#

Which script is it?

shadow palm
#

the bloodsoul falchion

pallid kestrel
untold night
#

Wow, that is an old one

pallid kestrel
#

i was about to say, this one seems quite a bit more understandable to miss in testing than UCS as a whole lol.

Sometimes the old ways are the best.

lusty lake
#

And you should probably clear people out of wyrmreach when a wyrm spawns or is summoned. I didn't attack, as I didn't want to grief anyone else the way I have been griefed by the flaws.

shadow palm
pallid kestrel
#

They Zerg the wyrm down using this one weird trick. GMs HATE them.

proven mirage
#

Got a couple of "young" folk who want to tackle the Sybil. One mage, one monk. Anyone looking to lead those two young heros to greatness?

image0.gif
summer dove
#

Sure

proven mirage
#

Would be late in the PM. Had a greater mage and I try, but for some reason every spell that mage cast was not working

fervent echo
obsidian pulsar
#

Sybil or Wyrm let me know. I'm around and can get there in about 4 minutes

half locust
#

Any groups forming for the wyrm that just arrived and apparently rampaging?

magic shore
#

it still alive?

shadow palm
#

it was just roaming fjallarhaart when i was in the grove

half locust
#

Just flew off

magic shore
#

ah bummer, missed it

half locust
#

Amazed. Usually folks are grouped up an hour or two before (and yesterday, that was me). I was recovering from the sybil fight when the wyrm arrived

prisma crane
#

It may have been someones summon as it was about an hour early, I think. I'm guessing they wanted to make an unannounced run, fell in battle, then the wyrm prowled around either until someone fell it or it flew off. I saw the alert go our for it, but was in the middle of unloading and restocking elixirs. Did run two more wyrms tonight for groups, and we got five quest goers started on their journey. I'm calling that a good win for the end of the week.

valid saddle
#

I've rolled in a potential fix to the weird UCS behavior on wyrms.

rugged cave
#

I want to believe....but Zelia has taught me well

valid saddle
#

I didn't do any April Fool's jokes this year--too busy!

spark jasper
frank flint
#

Haha.

iron spoke
#

WYRoM laughs in undead, and throws currency at you until you die.

main scroll
#

So, I'm going to spit my thoughts on the Boss Battle System. They are mine, and I'm just providing insight and not necessarily demanding change. Though I wouldn't mind some changes, I'm willing to either "git guud" or find ways to make it work.

The Good: Boss Battles unite folks to face a major foe. It demands numbers and it demands some firepower. In this, for the folks that look for hard challenges, this is for you. For those that like the feel of something massive in scope and scale, this is for you. And, admittedly, while I HATE the mad screen scroll, I do like the feeling of battling something major. I'm sure some folks have the resources, the money, and/or the clout to solo these things and I don't mind if they can.

There are lots of phases and moving parts that I enjoy as well. I wish I could target the archways of the Sybil like a mob, but I do like that there is an element of moving around and doing multiple jobs for certain things is rather dope.

The Bad: I've never wanted to be Big Willie in Gemstone, and I understand the limitations of power scale and all, but man, boss battles are ROUGH for rogues in that they usually possess two things that do us dirty: lack of crit kill and stupidly high HP. This is not a whinge, it's just a fact, and it's something that I have to deal with. But it does take away from my skill set. I don't find them as fun as other means of play, but I can adapt. In future battles, I wouldn't mind some variety where maybe the crit kill to perhaps weaken or kill a body part outright might make the battle friendlier in stages OR have that creature have other things that might be hazardous that CAN be crit killed.

Those two elements are also the bane of invasions for rogues, as difficulty is usually established by having uncrittable critters with mad HP, ala Kenstrom boss battles and the like.

That said, I like these, hope more come out, and enjoy the community building it has done. 3 more new ones to go!

spark jasper
#

I’ve seen others comment how they’ll never be able to match the damage output of a rogue, because of it. Makes them the ultimate DPS class in boss fights.
(Maybe beat out by 515/506 wizards with really high exp)

main scroll
#

I have, yes. But I think the other aspect of it can be the fact that my AS might not be high enough to connect. This was the case with the Sybil. She was brutal. I found the Sybil fight fairer due to hiding working fairly well. But I didn't feel like I was popping as hard as I could.

But in truth, many might have felt the same way, and it might just be a matter of me gitting guud, which is fine.

That said, I CAN and SHOULD waylay a bit more on these boss battles, work on upping my AS, and do some more tests.

untold night
#

Does DoT poison help at all?

#

I don't know much about rogues, but intuitively it seems like poisons would be a part of their DPS kit against bosses

pallid kestrel
#

the sybil is not very friendly to as attacks in general, she has monstrous DS

waylay rips the wyrm when youre actually like, properly exp'd and geared for the fight.

wyrm DS dips down way low as the fight wears on it's like guranteed full waylay damage at the end

minor locust
#

The wyrm is pretty hard to hit at first but her DS becomes reasonable once she is beaten up a little. The sybil stays hard to hit, yeah.

shadow palm
#

It takes a few runs to get the rhythm of either fight down and once you do you kind of learn what your good at and what your bad at and lean into your professions strengths. I'm not a huge fan of clerics vs the wyrm but between gear and exp I can be more productive but vs sybil it feels like it flips a bit. No one should feel top of the hill in both battles (without insane amounts of exp/gear).

shy tiger
#

the sybil i felt doubly useful for, because even if she focuses me/quest-goer down i could miracle to ensure success for someone

#

i also like the instancing and multi-room arena of the sybil

minor locust
#

Tbh I don’t like either of the fights as a cleric due to pures being squishy. I enjoy them both a lot on the monk.

spark jasper
main scroll
#

I'm a rogue w/ two spells, no KS. I get dotted up to death and a CS spell is going to kill me. But that's the risk and I'm fine with the risks.

Poisons did seem to work on the Wyrm. Sybil didn't get any of that. But the Sybil did allow for more work before the AoEs finally got me. I did like the multi-rooms aspect, and that different task gameplay seems a fun idea ot me.

And thanks for that Kontii. That's a pretty important insight.

I'm hyped for the eventual Kraken, Hivemind, and whatever else is in Moonsedge. Vampire? Ghost Rider looking boss? I don't know.

spark jasper
#

I do wish the the Sybil was slightly more susceptible to DS reducing maneuvers . So we could at least spend 5-19 seconds setting her up for 1 good connect 😂

shadow palm
#

I leaned into shield techs vs sybil on my rogue specially shield bash

main scroll
shadow palm
main scroll
#

Thanks again. Gives me a bit of hope and, it does make me wonder about those future bosses.

Overall, the boss system has broguht people together, and it is a pretty big feat to be able to take one down. I don't think this should be the staple for GS, but I do love the idea of these places having some major villain that needs to get taken down. It's really cool.

subtle cedar
#

How fast does FoF work and does it work for all attack methods, like if 5 ppl are spamming all of their stuff at Sybil would you expect its defenses (all types) to lower regardless of if the Sybil is getting hit?

rugged cave
#

I bet the Sybil has the MoC to offset 4 FoF, she is also level 120 vs 100 for players, so she gets that in her favor as well

vagrant tiger
#

FoF also has no effect on magical defenses, so if its almost all spells FoF would do nothing.

main scroll
shy tiger
#

they made some adjustments to the wyrm's FoF mechanics, iirc
not sure if that made it to sybil

pallid kestrel
#

#development-announcements message

shadow palm
past trout
#

Has anyone noticed the sybil running away a lot more often? It's like she runs out every few seconds now

trim cedar
#

Is anyone using 615/710/125?

half locust
past trout
#

oh right i forgot 710 still does that annoying thing about making things flee *sigh

half locust
#

I do agree about the screen scroll... on 2 of my last 3 boss fights, my client nearly froze: I saw the battle line by line about... maybe 5 lines per second. I spammed some attacks blindly and occasionally moved rooms with sybil and move back, but I may as well have had my eyes closed. (FWIW: I did that with only single character logged in, all other apps closed, verified CPU and memory... it only happened when stepping into sybil room in 2 of last 3 fights)

past trout
#

the screen scroll is painful. if we get more boss fights, should consider a special interface combat and different combat messaging to be implemented

half locust
#

I'm not sure how to have a raid boss battle in a text game, where.. however fast I can read, I'm basically thinking up routines ahead of time and creating macros / aliases / mini-scripts to do the plan.

past trout
#

you could have it auto-shorten certain types of combat messaging to reduce scroll, have distinct timed rounds of 6 seconds, instead of full real time, etc. and a separate interface to show debuffs/buffs/conditions

gaunt umbra
#

I barely look at the story window during boss fights. I have certain things highlighted, but even those blitz by and go missed pretty easily. I used to primarily watch the Room Window, and then switched to the scripts Ruse made.

#

;creaturewindow ;hazardwindow ;playerwindow ;treasurewindow

#

I lined them up so I can monitor what's going on in real time. It's a lot of situational awareness

past trout
#

;deadlybossmods

gaunt umbra
#

Since the windows are static and show exactly who and what is where, as well as their status (stun/prone/), as well as hazards like webs and clouds, you don't have to worry about losing it in the scroll.

main scroll
# half locust <@172901016113512460> Kontii did not sponsor this endorsement... but my first th...

I found it rough because I was honestly trying to survive from things like being immobilized with the wyrm and being dotted up with the sybil. So it was really hard to get in hits when battling to get .

In those cases, I rely on my kit to incap or other things, and that was impossible to do on the Sybil. But again, a lot of it is me just expressing my viewpoints and part of it IS me having to git guud.

So, part of it may be having to just take the lumps and figure out strategies. I can do that. But I do hope that variety and different strategies continue as these new bosses come out.

gaunt umbra
#

I resent that my sybil strategy devolved to shadow dance + silent waylay (with pre-resolution dispel flares), while sometimes doing double duty dispelling gates. The death mid fight resets cooldowns so you can pop shadow dance again

shadow palm
gaunt umbra
#

Shield Bash is about the only thing available in my kit that can affect the sybil at all

lusty lake
#

a combat window that only shows creatures attacks, no players

main scroll
# shadow palm To your point of git gud I do think the sheer amount of carries through the ques...

Perhaps, but just knowing and recognizing that I was carried is an incentive for me to find ways to be and do better. I don't take it as an ultra negative. It's more the idea of, "Okay, I'm not there yet, but with a bit more skill and understanding of using Ascension points, I can work my way up there."

I don't think I would have attempted it had it not been for Gemstones, to be honest, but I have no regrets in doing so, and I am glad that many folks have come along to help out folks that need the aid.

shadow palm
half locust
main scroll
#

I mean, let's be real, a lot of it is "numbergoup" but I think playing to the best of what I can bring can be the difference, and I think I'm okay with that.

half locust
#

Related to the screen scroll and occasional freezing for me... I don't know how I did until it's over. I setup a routine with my warrior for sybil that was heavy with feint, shield bash, and shield strike (kroderine buckler), but I also had dirtkick, headbutt (kroderine helm) and other stuff in their for warrior style disables. I had no idea until post fight log review that dirtkick, headbutt, and I think something else I tried just flat out don't work on sybil.

minor locust
#

My cleric was carried through the wyrm and I’m glad of it, for pures it’s RNG just hoping the wyrm doesn’t focus you because if it does you turn into a fine mist

half locust
#

BUt in that case: my warrior was productive, helpful, contributed, etc to the team's success, even if not a top damage dealer.

shadow palm
half locust
minor locust
#

Yeah not an experience I plan to repeat. My cleric is retired from the boss fights. I go on the monk as often as I can because it’s actually fun being able to do damage and not get one-shot if I’m attacked.

past trout
#

the real takeaway here is to jump onto the bandwagon as soon as there's a new release so you can take advantage of the "just be there and get credit before they fix it" momentum!

main scroll
#

I like the idea of globetrotting and killing these big creatures. And, I really liked the lore and the quest aspect of the Gemstone stuff. That was really fun.

kindred sparrow
#

WTB wyrmscale drop

ocean horizon
#

WTB Wyrmslayer title. Pre-name, specifically.

Edit: Actually, to be honest, I'd be even more interested in a Sybil Slayer title for Leafi since that's the one she's fought like 40-50 times. It depends on the character, though. Others of mine would definitely be more proud of having slain wyrms.

gaunt umbra
#

I always feel weird about prename titles. Like I'm being silently judged by everyone. I think it'd be funny to just get "The", though.

prisma crane
# main scroll So, I'm going to spit my thoughts on the Boss Battle System. They are mine, and ...

I think all your points are factual and correct, but I think it may be ignoring one of the most fundamental facets of these sorts of boss fights: they are intended to be strategic group efforts. Now, there are folks who have 100mil+ XP and/or "whale" level gear that can (or almost can) solo these boss fights, but that's just the inevitable power creep that exists in GS, it's not the norm. That shouldn't be any sort of gauge regarding the experience. And, from my perspective, I think that's a good thing as it provides some content for those folks who rarely get challenged, but makes it still viable as a team effort for those of us not running around with a (hyperbolic alert) 1000 AS or 600 CS.

I think the primary genre of "complaints" (though I hesitate to even really think of them as complaints) I've heard from folks were leaned heavily into the perspective of folks being used to dominate their hunting grounds suddenly finding themselves getting mopped. Literally the most frequent comment I hear dropped in these battles almost every time is "This is impossible!" Which I think really reflects on how the boss battle concept has flipped the typical battle experience. Even in invasions, with overwhelming force, there's still a sense of "Well, I killed twenty of them before I died". While, I think it's completely valid for someone to just not like that kind of engagement, I do think it works well as a defined challenge to overcome for an epic treasure (Gemstones in this case).

For instance, Myharl avoids the sybil fight if someone is going on the quest that run (at least after his first 20+ runs before she was modified so heavily against KS). His kit and the level of gear he has makes him very ineffective against her. While he can contribute, I feel it's not a battle meant for him when others can shine so brightly against her.

minor locust
#

I think it's broadly not fun being unable to do appreciable damage in a game that outside of these two fights revolves around killing things quickly and without much drama. Having 55m exp and a bunch of money into gear and struggling to plink the wyrm while people dump 500 damage waylays or 1200 damage mstrikes into it feels pretty rough especially as a class that can't survive a hit. But it's an unpleasant thing you have to grind through once and then never touch it again. Not the end of the world! But it feels bad being on the outside looking in on DPS.

prisma crane
# ocean horizon WTB Wyrmslayer title. Pre-name, specifically. Edit: Actually, to be honest, I'd...

Yeah, this is something I've wanted for a very long time. After having been denied the prename title via premium points years ago on the grounds that "it may become an obtainable title", now pushing into 350 wyrm kills, I'm ready to obtain it. Auchand has mentioned that he's pondering a "fair" way to handle that. I'm hopeful it's still on the docket.

I do think "boss fight" titles is a great idea (even if they require more than just beating the boss to obtain), also trophy "skins". Where all my wyrm scales at!? 😄

prisma crane
# minor locust I think it's broadly not fun being unable to do appreciable damage in a game tha...

I think it's fair to say there are aspects that are not fun. I mention them ever so often. Two things that irritate me are 1) loss of agency (sympathy), and 2) gimmick one-shot kills (SMR/SSR). I think both of these probably work well as intended in normal engagements. With the duration of boss battles, that loss of agency suddenly becomes not being able to engage the game while the boss does 30+ attacks. Also, the chances for lame open rolls one-shotting folks increases astronomically when you're dealing with.... hundreds of attacks from one enemy.

gaunt umbra
#

I will sign any petition any time to get you that title.

woeful lodge
#

Make Myharl some wyrmscale boots!

rugged cave
prisma crane
#

Would be really neat to see wyrmscale become a rare material with some sort of relevant functional mechanic. The fact that the scales that dropped for a very short period a long while back are currently "disallowed" from being used in alterations makes me hopeful the reason for that is "because wyrmscale is going to become a functional thing" and not "we just want to be arbitrary".

gaunt umbra
#

The cynic in me is just like, "They don't want us earning it, they want us buying it at DR."

prisma crane
inland pendant
#

I like the idea of earning the title.. we have them for DR, why not after so many Wyrm or Sybil kills you unlock one. Maybe after some huge amount slayed, you’ve harnessed the knowledge to skin them? Big boss fame, if you will.

zinc spindle
#

For the last natural summon, only two people ported to the river. Aureliano and myself.

prisma crane
zinc spindle
#

Not sure if it has anything to do with the last update you made Auchand, but I wanted to report it.

And yes, Destrian, Wolfstarr, Riend and Frittz did damage.

inland pendant
#

We had a sixth in the group so should have carried 5 up?

prisma crane
#

I'm confused, I think? What are you calling "phase 2", Wyrmreach? Anyone who made it to wyrmreach should have gotten credit. Or, is that the issue?
Yeah, the top five damage dealers should have all gone to Wyrmreach.

zinc spindle
#

Only two were ported to Wyrmreach.

prisma crane
#

All were in the same room still? The wyrm didn't roam and no one departed, right? Just confirming becuase you have to be in the same room with the wyrm when the telportation happens to get in to Wyrmreach.

inland pendant
#

We were all in the same room.

prisma crane
#

Then yeah, that's buggy. 😦 If there were five or more folks, and everyone caused damage, and were in the room when the wyrm teleported to Wyrmreach, then all of the top five damage dealers should have been teleported to Wyrmreach (dead or alive) to get credit. That's a bummer. I'm sorry that happened.

zinc spindle
#

I'm going to take that back. It looks like the wyrm moved a room over. The two warriors zerked over to it and between our two blows it triggered the teleport.

So my mistake, there is no bug. Just really rotten luck.

prisma crane
#

Yeah, I hate when that happens. So many times I've been caught trying to drag corpses over to the right room mid-battle. 🫤

woeful lodge
#

I think different titles could be amazing... but interesting ones, not just "killed wyrm xx times"... but like "last person standing" or ... "crit killed the wyrm using shield throw" ... just interesting things.

woeful lodge
main scroll
# prisma crane I think all your points are factual and correct, but I think it may be ignoring ...

I don’t disagree with any of this. My response was to the original question and point of the thread that Auchand mentioned and I thought, “Hey, why not?”

I’m fine with group effort, though I need to find better ways to translate it into GS as opposed to the visual aspect of a WoW. That’s on me.

I don’t expect domination, though. I expect utility. I expect to be able to contribute. And, at some of these levels of DS, that’s pretty darn hard. But that’s Gemstone. Rogue play, IMO, is a lot about using the kit to get the drop and affect enemy DS to do damage and it’s hard when, in the case of the Sybil, half the kit doesn’t work.

I’m not calling for change. That’s a me problem. But it was one that needed mentioning to promote discussion, and I feel better equipped to try new things.

But as we get new bosses, I just wanted to share thoughts as others have to promote variety and new ideas.

I’ll get there. No KS and only two spells and I’m doing better than expected, so we’ll keep on with the keep on.

past trout
#

I get the feeling that they probably didn't intend for everyone to be able to do them right away and more of something to work towards. That being said I strongly dislike how even if you've got a ton of ascension, you still need incredibly expensive gear to do meaningful damage to them.

untold night
#

I do wonder how much a tank/taunt system would help

#

Rather than just random damage spraying everywhere

past trout
#

I would love a party formation/holy trinity setup! Real tanks, true real-time healing, range and spellcast speed advantages for casting at the back.

untold night
#

I think it's going to be different than other games, just by the nature of text, but it feels like there's something there

past trout
#

I've played other text games with a formation and engagement setup, where there was a 3x3 grid, with front line, mid, back rows. If you were a caster in the back, you could double-cast. Most of the enemy's melee hits could only reach the first row, etc. There were other advantages that i don't recall offhand. But certain enemies (and players) would be able to have spells and abilities to disrupt your formation too

shy tiger
#

the guard/protect system could use some love

summer dove
#

If it's some major change, I'd like to read the proposal. If it's just, make guard/protect work better, sure.

shy tiger
#

gsl being what it is, i'd set my sights on it working better

ocean horizon
untold night
prisma crane
# untold night I do wonder how much a tank/taunt system would help

I'm absolutely game for this. Give me a more effective way to taunt, and I certainly will. I already do, but it feels pretty limited given the number of attacks that the wyrm gets. Same with the protect/guard system, even with guard mastery I feel like the impact my guarding someone during a boss battle is negligible.

#

I'm always up for playing a support roll when needed, and have done a bunch of these wyrm battles where I intentionally haven't directly engaged, instead trying to pull hits and be a meat shield. Sometimes I still do enough reactive damage to land top five. Ultimately, I'd love to be able to more effectively sometimes play the defensive role rather than offensive for a wyrmhunting group.

ocean horizon
#

I still want a Final Fantasy style defend command (eat some hard RT to decrease damage incurred for that amount of RT) to help buy time for healing and the like while not having to just outright leave the room.

prisma crane
#

In a perfect world, squares could provide defense for others at least semi comprable to some of the lower level defensive magics. We take on the DPS roles in these boss battles mostly because that's what we've been relegated to functionally.

shy tiger
#

can you retreat from the wyrm?

prisma crane
#

Yes, but the damage you cuased is still going to count. So... like if I'm top five in a group of six. Me leaving the battle early isn't going to get #6 in on the top five (if that makes sense?). There will just be four folks sent to Wyrmreach. Edit: Oh! the cman. 😄 Oops.

lusty lake
#

I think they mean the cman retreat to disengage

shy tiger
#

correct
maybe disengagement needs to be more meaningful
assuming you even can disengage a boss

shadow palm
shy tiger
deft basin
pallid kestrel
#

doing literally anything to it cancels disengage so, doesn't exactly help much unless you're really REALLY dedicated to just getting carried with a group of 5 and not planning on doing antyhing. so, i guess that's kinda helpful

austere moss
#

Disengage could be a whole thing if expanded on for ranged, thrown, casting. Creatures have to spend 2 round times to engage ranged, casting, thrown users. Anything that binds or roots automatically makes player disengaged if player is holding a ranged, thrown, or runestaff weapon. Warriors and paladins that guard or protect others apply an automatic disengaged to recipients that refreshes every 30 seconds.

#

Most importantly, ranged, thrown, and casting does not cancel disengaged.

#

Large creatures like wyrms would have some attacks that ignore disengaged like a tail swipe or breath attack. Claws and bite attacks would require the wyrm to focus.

Any player guarded or protected by two other players cannot be engaged by creatures regular melee attacks.

safe obsidian
#

Feels like creeping towards DragonRealms engagement system....

pallid kestrel
#

God i hope not.

ocean horizon
# 

Golden lightning crackles between the two of you, and a thrill of new sensation echoes up your arm and through your body as the spirit merges with your form.

It is a perfect specimen of its kind!

The Chthonian Sybil spirit seems highly loyal and ready to fight for you!```
spark jasper
#

pretty darn cool - can the wyrm be done too?

austere moss
#

Sadly my total spirit beasts collected did not transfer from platinum and I can't be bothered to recapture the amount necessary to be able to capture the sybil

gaunt umbra
#

So is the Sybil the Elanthian Mewtwo?

prisma crane
spark jasper
#

Another wyrm down, but I certainly feel bad for all the first time hunters that waited and showed up for the wyrm tonight.

ocean horizon
#

I've already found my Gemstones for the week and can slow down and do other things like Finally got curious enough to go through logs and see that apparently Leafi's been in 53 sybil-defeating parties so far. Now to parse out exactly how many characters I know can use Gemstones just from what I've been through...

Edit: 109. Obviously there are way more in the world, but that's only the ones I've spotted in sybil logs.

shadow palm
#

I've been there for 69 altar openings (some of them I just witnessed the opening) 58 successful sybil runs but a lot of those probably overlap with yours

summer dove
#

Search "Shadows coalesce into the form of a gold-tangled stygian lockbox with polished ebony inlay near your feet!" (37 hits)

ocean horizon
obsidian pulsar
#

Dire odds there, you weren't that hurt though

spark jasper
#

Got 1 new quester through on the natural spawn

spark jasper
#

Mostly because @woeful lodge was kind enough to give up the 5th slot. She's the best. 😬

woeful lodge
main scroll
valid saddle
#

We seen any UCS issues since the fix?

spark jasper
minor locust
#

Yeah I did, and while I didn't get the killing blow on the wyrm, everyone got their lockbox and credit as far as I know. Curious to see if that changes if I kill it with UCS. Will post here if that causes an issue whenever it happens. So, optimistically, it's working! Thanks Auchand

valid saddle
#

Nice.

carmine oxide
#

Hmmmm anyone doing this this in an hour or so?

prisma crane
carmine oxide
#

I have a fifa tourney at 10, how long it gonna take to kill us?

#

this the same critter just with new drops? I have almost solo'ed it before but gave up trying. In groups im not sure my best role as im an oddity of a ranger. TWC duel blunts hiden waylay....

prisma crane
#

If you plan on using the natural Wyrm spawn for the quest, be sure to mention it on the ESP channel Wyrmwatch around that time. Most of us see the natural spawning wyrms as open to anyone who wants to hunt one, but most of us will try to help questers make it through if any are needing it at the time. The battle typically lasts about 15 minutes at most, but the spawn time has a bit of a wide range (8-9 hours) so if it spawns early would be about 9:45, if it spawns late, could be as late as 10:30 PM Elven.

carmine oxide
#

I doubt ill make it tonight. I am clueless to the quest component.

prisma crane
carmine oxide
#

This is actually quite alluring. Regyy is built for this.

terse haven
#

anyone around this evening to help with a Sybil hunt? Still have the 1x free entry as I need to finish the quest on my 9mil Wizard. I can bring a 20mil Cleric and/or 20mil Bard to help as well.

terse haven
#

Sybil hunt handled, thank you Tijay and Desorceri

trim cedar
carmine oxide
#

have 3 of us going to try the Wyrm. Can use some more help if avail

austere moss
carmine oxide
#

yea random open role but was fun

gaunt umbra
#

That was a brutal one, too.

carmine oxide
#

was happy I was taken shots and doing ok

carmine oxide
#

forming a party this time.... to try and take the Sybil

ebon flame
#

Can someone look at clumsy curse with the wyrm please? I only saw "suddenly trips" once during the entire fight and never saw "still looks very uncoordinated" or "no longer appears clumsy".

ocean horizon
#

Amazingly enough, if I get in the party of just three more characters who need the sybil before May, I'll have beaten the sybil as many times in April as in March.

I know April's had a whole extra week, but March also had the early adopter rush, so it's surprising to me that it hasn't slowed down all that much. Edit: I guess maybe the difference maker is that now we're usually getting one quester through at a time instead of 3-5.

clever creek
#

Thanks for the help with sybil earlier! I found a gemstone off my first group of kills afterwards lol

prisma crane
# ocean horizon Amazingly enough, if I get in the party of just three more characters who need t...

Yeah, volume + frequency. There's also the quest itself, some folks go knock it out immediately, others take it at their own pace, I know a few who just wanted a wyrm carry just to have the option to start the quest at some later date. There will always been a trickle of characters (new quest goers) reaching the level range needed for the quest, but I suspect it will be a long while before the March/April wyrm runs all result in Sybil encounters and completed quests.

summer dove
minor locust
#

Plot Twist: it's a warrior and if Alastir is successful there will be followup threads about nerfing KS

prisma crane
#

Last DR, just for kicks (and since I had a spare fixskill + my freebie), I un-KS Myharl for some endless arena runs, spelled him to the brim, and cut him loose. KS certainly doesn't need to be nerfed in that context, extended my endless count by a significant amount. I still choose KS as it's a big part of his character story now and I enjoy how KS combat "feels", but he's way more deadly without it.

summer dove
#

Warriors with spells have the highest numbers it just takes a lot of xp. But plate plus spells is basically unhittable

summer dove
#

Little warrior made it through the wyrm fight at 94.

minor locust
#

They call me Nidstradamus

rugged cave
#

Who wants to try and carry a 67/68 rogue? For the lulz

ivory hinge
#

This does make me wonder what the lowest level character to make it through has been. Sort of a fun thing to brag about, I suppose

#

If you had killer gear and some sweet SK scrolls stocked up, I’d bet a group of 4 strong characters could carry someone pretty low through
Might be a bit tricky to actually hit the wyrm, but you could be creative

#

Here’s the gameplan:

wear the best 10x full plate you can get your hands on

  • find 4 other carries

  • max spells plus every single SK spell scroll known to man

  • ruby amulet plus wizard shield imbed

  • boost luck and boost enh stat

  • wait until the end of a phase when the wyrm’s DS is as low as possible

  • pop a blue crystal and whatever else you can possibly do for your AS

  • hope you hit it

gaunt umbra
#

Could be pretty low with current mechanics, honestly.

summer dove
#

SMR was difficult to hit, but the DS gets low enough I could see 300-400 AS touch

You don't have to live, you just have to touch before you die.

minor locust
#

Crank your DS while people with 1s RT and 900 AS annihalate the wyrm and you pray not to be targeted

ivory hinge
#

Oh, or maybe the better move is to let 4 ppl do the work and then just walk in at the end and plink it

#

UCS would work I think

gaunt umbra
#

Being able to be carried as a corpse through the fight so long as you do 'some' damage was certainly a choice. I'm not mad about it, as it has basically been the sole reason so many have been able to get past the fight. If they made surviving the fight to the end as a factor for the quest step, we'd not only have a fraction of people completing it... but a whole lot more discourse around the fight's balance

ivory hinge
#

Yeah. There’s been a ton of back and forth about that and I won’t bother getting into it. But it was definitely an intentional choice. I do think it’s nice that a lot of ppl get to experience gemstones because it was such a big dev effort

I wouldn’t mind seeing special rewards for the higher tier characters who do certain things with boss critters.

Whether that’s killing a new boss, doing a certain amount of damage, etc. Or whatever.

Maybe more gemstone slots as rewards? :0

gaunt umbra
#

I'd honestly be happy if when you opened a loot box you get 1 Dust.

ivory hinge
#

As an example, if Sailor’s Grief has a new boss, characters that kill the new boss (with a real contribution, however that gets defined) could get a sixth gemstone slot opened

Dust is good too!

minor locust
ivory hinge
#

Heh, surviving is doable as a pure, but definitely not easy!

woeful lodge
#

I'm happy to test this with my 85 cleric

#

If only for the absolute luls of watching her get immediately rolled

gaunt umbra
#

Rolled for science.

spark jasper
#

eventually - there could be a quest to unlock a secondary legendary slot or something, fight the mother wyrm --- but you have to survive the whole fight

minor locust
#

wait is this not the mother wyrm? the undansormr are baby wyrm's aren't they

gaunt umbra
#

Well... these are cold wyrms. This implies there is warm wyrms.

spark jasper
minor locust
gaunt umbra
#

I actually think that would be a miss, not when they have ancient morduska the size of small towns hiding in them dunes.

ebon flame
#

a smaller morduska would be a cool mount

gaunt umbra
#

They only move during sandstorms, tho... they just hide under the sand like sarlacs.

ebon flame
#

well the free ones do 🙂

gaunt umbra
#

I already have a yierka mount I ignore... because the mount system is kind of a 'yikes'.

ebon flame
#

mount morduska will randomly eat you and your saddle, fast travel involves tunneling underground and you get rank 3 crits and die

gaunt umbra
#

lmao alright I'm in

ebon flame
#

yeah i have a ghost of a yierka in my house stable since I sold it

gaunt umbra
#

Did it die when it took a single glance at ;go2?

spark jasper
#

Next boss fight ---> The Hive or Moonsedge

trim cedar
#

Overmind

minor locust
#

I really like the Hive. The creatures are flavorful, it's a tough zone, I usually have it more or less to myself, the loot is great if you can skin.

gaunt umbra
#

I don't like the time it takes to break rocks... and I do ultimately find it less interesting than HW.

#

It is super nice not having to worry about creature height and non-crittable things, though.

minor locust
#

The rock breaking is not excellent, even a drop to 3 per stone would make it feel a bit less chore-like but... you get used to it

gaunt umbra
#

Have we had any spoilers on the ME boss? I just figured it would be the top vampire with a not-insignificant part of the population offering to become progeny in lieu of killing it.

#

You'd get the Vampirism Debuff, which would give you bonuses to stats... but you could only play at night... and couldn't look at your description in mirrors anymore, so you'd have no idea if you need to sort autohead or not.

minor locust
#

i want the ME boss to be some kind of psycho anime elder vampire with just absurd amounts of blood based attacks

spark jasper
#

It's gotta be Barlan kane

prisma crane
# gaunt umbra Being able to be carried as a corpse through the fight so long as you do 'some' ...

Yeah, it was certainly an intentional choice, but from my perspective a good one. I think there would have been a loss of the community effort, way more frustration and bitterness, and a huge advantage for folks who have all the toys to play with. That approach is something I was pretty vocal about not wanting to see happen with the quest, especially as a gateway to even more toys (gemstones) to play with. As far as it being a badge of honor to have slain a wyrm and survived, it still is. That's still a thing. It's also sort of why we as a group leaned into the whole Order of Wyrmslayers as well, I think.

gaunt umbra
minor locust
#

I think balancing fights like this is extremely hard and the wyrm is, uh, not great if you're a pure, so I think allowing credit for dead characters is fine

prisma crane
#

Could be fun to manifest a bonus reward for surviving the battle. Pop that wyrmscale into the lockbox or something.

gaunt umbra
#

And still get denied on alters trying to use them.

prisma crane
minor locust
#

I also can't overstate how much I dig the giga-exp and lootbox inclusion for boss killing. I go on boss hunts whenever I can and those rewards are awesome.

gaunt umbra
#

"Look man, you can't have a wyrmscale sweater."

ebon flame
#

"I can make it a wyrmscale-sequined sweater if that's okay."

prisma crane
#

I guess if there was just a deadset desire to keep them away from alterations, maybe make scales be flagged as misc items so they can be used with the various items with customizable sides (or something like that).

gaunt umbra
minor locust
#

Pulling up to the function in my wyrmscale romper

obsidian pulsar
#

I hope The Hive and ME get bosses

ebon flame
#

i imagine wyrmscales are big tho? dinner plate size?

terse haven
#

that'd start some fun dinner party conversation

prisma crane
#

Wrymscale charcuterie board (wow, my phone spellcheck did not like that word), so I can eat off the corpse of my slain enemy.

terse haven
#

Slain Enemy Dinnerware. Because revenge is a dish best served cold.

ebon flame
#

with CoolCore technology these plates are great for salads.. try out our new DraCooldine plates

woeful lodge
ebon flame
#

Heatmiser and Snowmiser will be the brand names

prisma crane
#

They have a sort of "always cold" description, sort of like everfrost. Let me go snag the description.
Fingers of frost perpetually dance across the surface of the feather-light scale before puffing into cold mist. Though silvery in hue, a dance of auroral color spills across the surface like an oil sheen. The scale is so thin as to be almost translucent, but is as unyielding as steel.

shy tiger
obsidian pulsar
#

I can't see it being anything else either. Bells sound and he awakens or you see him in the top then he hunts people. Stealth boss, ambusher?

spark jasper
shy tiger
#

the atoll tilts people in general
i've personally seen at least 5 people declare outloud they're never coming back to kf after one hunt 😅

#

so what we're saying is the next boss should be a stealth uac shield brawler that can reflect bolts, vanish and root you all at once

summer dove
#

Pretty sure that was intentional. (The A-toll being created to grief)

shy tiger
#

the next area has Grief in the name 😈

ebon flame
#

a psionicist that goes all Dark Phoenix with disintegration aura, immobilize aoe

minor locust
kindred sparrow
#

they teased us with the wyrmscales.

subtle cedar
#

when we getting titles for transcend destiny 5/10 and 10/10?

ocean horizon
#

100 sybil victories down! More to come, probably! 🎉

subtle cedar
#

Sounds like that needs a title too! You get a title and you get title!

pallid kestrel
#

The Sybil Shepherd

prisma crane
shadow palm
ocean horizon
#

Get that sybil!

prisma crane
# 
Unnatural terror buries itself in your chest like a frigid knife, and you find yourself unable to voice a scream that quavers pathetically in your throat.
   ... 27 points of damage!
   Your skull shatters into sharp spikes which are driven into your brain.
The subdued warmth embracing you fades along with the spiritual force surrounding your arms.``` 
This gimmick is getting old.
ebon flame
#

What is that?

trim cedar
#

Wyrm maneuver

gaunt umbra
#

Open Rolls are the only weapon they have against some folks, so they added another flavor of one.

trim cedar
#

In particular it's MDR, which is the anti-square version of SMR

prisma crane
#

Yeah, it's a wyrm's psychic attack. That instance there, I had 3 wounds and full health, and still got instant death. The x2/x3 open roll MDR + sunder defenses combo is what I think is causing it, but that's annoying since it happens about 1/5 wyrm hunts. I wouldn't mind if it messed me up bad, but dropping dead (at full health and minor injuries) in the middle of battles you're waiting around 8 hours for get's old. Post was mostly just venting right after it happened. 😄

pallid kestrel
#

pures have entered the chat

minor locust
#

Pures? In a situation involving boss fights? Not likely

austere moss
#

I'll have to see if my empath has ever been hit with that

#

Mainly it's 13 sec binds that wreck me

minor locust
#

Using Assaults while slowed is the real killer for me as a monk. Oh sick I have 43 seconds of rt now because I used flurry

pallid kestrel
# 
You are not currently engaged in an assault.```
me, currently beating something to death but very slowly: I beg to differ
minor locust
#

I don’t think I knew that existed. Time to rig up a lil support script for wyrm times

pallid kestrel
#

it doesn't work, i guess i shoulda had more context lol.

past trout
#

I wonder how many times Wyrmheart's been killed during the wyrm fight by someone other than the wyrm...

woeful lodge
#

I absolutely have fired arrows at him before.

prisma crane
#

I think I've only gone on one wyrm hunt with Wyrmheart. Berserk thankfully only targets critters. Curious how that would work. Would you just look wyrm/look other wyrm to find your target?

austere moss
#

I mean, seems like a bad idea to hunt in HW

magic shore
#

during a sybil fight, after the expected group wipe, we were all teleported outside the arch and left dead (not rezzed by disir)The tenebrous gloom around you grows insubstantial, spiraling away in a wash of blackness darker than a raven's wings. You find yourself lying on cold, hard ground. [Angargreft, Pits of the Dead - 30082] (u7503444) Stark against the ruddy rock comprising the walls and floor, an archway of lightless black stone dominates the northern wall at the corridor's dead end. Steps ascend to the archway, parting around a slick black stone altar. The walls to either side are painted with patterns of golden wings, the pigments enhanced with metal powder that makes the artwork glitter strangely. You also see obvious signs of someone hiding. Also here: the body of Yndrael (Mon) (prone) Obvious exits: southwest Haloed by inky blackness, Destrian's corpse rolls out of the archway and onto the ground. Haloed by inky blackness, Aureliano's corpse rolls out of the archway and onto the ground.

#

the only odd thing I noticed (which may or may not be relevant) is that after Destrian died * Destrian drops dead at your feet!his mirror image effect triggered an attack by him``` ** Fleeting and insubstantial, a mirror image of Destrian shimmers into view beside him, echoing his attack with one of its own! **
As Destrian attempts to strike with his white steel claidhmore, a surge of power flows out of it, through Destrian, and leaps out at the sybil!
A brilliant aura begins to radiate from Destrian!
CS: +475 - TD: +469 + CvA: +25 + d100: +31 == +62
Warded off!
The chthonian sybil appears startled briefly, but quickly regains her composure.

Destrian swings an immense white steel claidhmore at a cinereous chthonian sybil!
AS: +622 vs DS: +751 with AvD: +31 + d100 roll: +73 = -25
A clean miss.

** Threads of charged light spiral around Destrian's arms, striking a cinereous chthonian sybil with a pulsing shock! A resonant force ripples through Destrian, amplifying his spirit! **
... 10 points of damage!```

inland pendant
#

What’s odd is he missed. 😅

shadow palm
#

That is a very undestrian AS

inland pendant
#

I now know my dead AS

inland pendant
#

I think it for sure has something to do with mirror image (and briar flares), I no longer can sheath or stow my weapon with the gem equipped.

inland pendant
#

Hmm it’s magically working now 🎉

prisma crane
#

380 Deeds.

Just a fun fact. I was curious how many deeds I've blown through fighting the wyrm these past few years. Then realized it was easy to index from logs since I only use GotG to get deeds.

shadow palm
#

So we handled it and killed her but when we all did the scheduled Sybil death we were teleported outside and she was running free in the pits again tonight. We hunted her down and then used the items to get the quester through but just thought you should know. This happened the other night too.

magic shore
#

so, the weird thing is that I think we were outside well before that initial sybil death; I run a macro that simply peers in all directions to check for gates, and I was confused because it didn't seem to be working during the fight```You peer north but see nothing of interest.
You peer northeast but see nothing of interest.
You peer east but see nothing of interest.
You peer southeast but see nothing of interest.
You peer south but see nothing of interest.
You peer southwest and see ...

[Angargreft, Pits of the Dead - 30082] (u7503444)
The hallway veers around a gap where the rock has given way, leaving a pit that opens into blackness. The stone at the edge of the pit is smeared with dried blood.
Obvious exits: northeast, northwest
You peer west but see nothing of interest.
You peer northwest but see nothing of interest.
Flickering images play across a cinereous chthonian sybil's gaze as her mastery over fate grants her heightened insight!
A cinereous chthonian sybil illuminates with fell light as she raises an open hand toward Ensayn!
CS: +490 - TD: +343 + CvA: -31 + d100: +6 == +122
Warding failed!
Ensayn suddenly looks very dazed and confused.
CS: +490 - TD: +404 + CvA: -17 + d100: +12 == +81
Warded off!
A rush of magic invades your thoughts, but you push it aside with no further consideration.```only the southwest peer worked because we were already outside - I'll investigate some more in the morning

shadow palm
# 
The mists engulf Evii.
The mists engulf Lyracellan.
The mists engulf Ensayn.
The mists engulf Ralkean.
The mists engulf you and you find yourself in changed surroundings!
[Angargreft, Pits of the Dead - 30082] (u7503444)
Stark against the ruddy rock comprising the walls and floor, an archway of lightless black stone dominates the northern wall at the corridor's dead end. Steps ascend to the archway, parting around a slick black stone altar. The walls to either side are painted with patterns of golden wings, the pigments enhanced with metal powder that makes the artwork glitter strangely.
Also here: Ralkean, Ensayn, Lady Lyracellan, Miss Evii
Obvious exits: southwest
a stormy grey lynx materializes from an eddy of mist.
a striped lynx materializes from an eddy of mist.
a fluctuant glacier spirit materializes from an eddy of mist.
a cinereous chthonian sybil materializes from an eddy of mist.
Wait 1 sec.```
ocean horizon
#

Clearly all the cautionary sci-fi stories about AI were right. The sybil is learning on her own and has discovered the ability to move through the archway instead of only numpad directions.

ebon flame
#

She wants to break free!

#

Could be the disirs plan too.

magic shore
#

Ah, I see the mists messaging now as well. Worth noting that was almost immediately after the fight began. I walked into the arch and joined Tijay. I popped 1 - 2 casts of 119 and Tijay landed a spell or two (and a bunch of crazy flares). Then the mists engulfed us and ported us out.

#

Is that the same messaging that occurs when you wait in the Sybil area after the kill and are eventually kicked out? I wonder if we're triggering this with back-to-back rapid kills. We had just killed the Sybil with one quester, and then ran back in with another quester. So, maybe a timer governing the teleport out was still running and triggered within the next Sybil fight.

#

The same situation (rapid back-to-back kills) could've also explained the same effect with Fulmen's group from the other night.

ebon flame
magic shore
#

same messaging on 5/24 with FulmenThe mists engulf Akaari. The mists engulf Fulmen. The mists engulf Leafiara. The mists engulf you and you find yourself in changed surroundings! [Angargreft, Pits of the Dead - 30082] (u7503444) Stark against the ruddy rock comprising the walls and floor, an archway of lightless black stone dominates the northern wall at the corridor's dead end. Steps ascend to the archway, parting around a slick black stone altar. The walls to either side are painted with patterns of golden wings, the pigments enhanced with metal powder that makes the artwork glitter strangely. You also see a white-masked reddish brown puppy with high triangular ears and a stormy grey lynx. Also here: Whimweaver Leafiara (Cle), Arena Icon Fulmen (Pal), Lady Akaari (Rog), Muzgal (Emp) Obvious exits: southwest a cinereous chthonian sybil materializes from an eddy of mist.

#

ya, confirmed - that's the normal "teleport out of the arch after waiting too long" messaging ```Leafiara says, "Unstun him real fast."
Muzgal nods.

'get that gem ready
You say, "Get that gem ready."
The mists engulf Muzgal.
The mists engulf you and you find yourself in changed surroundings!
[Angargreft, Pits of the Dead - 30082] (u7503444)
Stark against the ruddy rock comprising the walls and floor, an archway of lightless black stone dominates the northern wall at the corridor's dead end. Steps ascend to the archway, parting around a slick black stone altar. The walls to either side are painted with patterns of golden wings, the pigments enhanced with metal powder that makes the artwork glitter strangely. You also see a roiling crimson angargeist, an eyeless black valravn (flying), a roiling crimson angargeist, a withered shadow-cloaked draugr and an eyeless black valravn (flying).
Also here: Muzgal (Emp)
Obvious exits: southwest
Leafiara materializes from an eddy of mist.
Spoetzel materializes from an eddy of mist.
Akaari materializes from an eddy of mist.
a stormy grey lynx materializes from an eddy of mist.```

ebon flame
#

hmmm what's causing it to happen before she's dead?

magic shore
#

suspect this: #1329223489487372408 message (already submitted bug report)

shadow palm
#

Ralkean just likes breaking auchand toys

rugged cave
#

Even the Sybil needs a respite after being killed and brought back to life

ebon flame
#

ahh ok so maybe the timer is for a set time at start of a battle then doesn't consider sybil death

rugged cave
#

I would think once Sybil/Wyrm are dead, they need a good 5 minutes to rest up, or else you end up finding yourself in the area during the you been here too long kick out window

shadow palm
#

We've defintely run faster back to backs without issues in the past. This time we went back to town, regrouped, and then went back out. When the quest first come out there was a line of people to go back, to back, to back, etc. outside the archway.

prisma crane