#[Official] GSWiki Discussion, v2.0

1 messages · Page 2 of 1

silver skiff
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But then they'd out themselves

plush totem
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We are currently working a timeline for response on these things. Additionally, I can say from my end, that I never received an email from you. The emails automatically get forwarded to the wiki team.

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I cannot speak for the other members, however if I did not receive an email, then it is not something I can respond to.

pallid pine
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Have you checked your spam folder?

image.png
plush totem
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Okay, I see that you sent an email by your screenshot, however I am personally saying that the email did not go through to my email, and yes, I check my spam regularly because there have been gswiki emails that show up there.

plush totem
# silver skiff But then they'd out themselves

I'm not sure what this comment is supposed to mean in this context as I already stated that the other wiki team members are more than capable of outing themselves, however I will not speak for them or out them myself.

Additionally, it seems to be a misunderstanding on certain aspects. I do not make decisions solely on my own. Anything that is updated, changed, and pushed out to the player base is discussed beforehand amongst the wiki team, and often times, additional outside parties in staff that the changes may specifically involve.

I happen to be the most player-facing member of the wiki team, and respond here as things come up and I am able to.

pallid pine
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Maybe you could hire some player Envoys, since the wiki was 99% player created before the takeover.

plush totem
pallid pine
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I'm not sure why it's uncalled for, it's a term that describes what happened. The wiki was primarily player created, edited and controlled. It was then taken control of by another party (GMs). It then has undergone a complete reorganization. With a new board, who can come forward if they choose.

The definition of hostile according to merriam-webster is (openly) opposed.

plush totem
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Even so, your particular issue that I had said to email about violated policy in the form that it took. The moderators handled the situation as the wiki team directed them to do so.

As noted, we are currently working on an update that will allow for a proper timeline for response, and it will also outline how certain things will be handled, per policy. That does not mean the policy violation decision that was in place at the time of your noted email will be reversed.

silver skiff
# plush totem I'm not sure what this comment is supposed to mean in this context as I already ...

I'm unable to find a wiki team on https://gswiki.play.net/GemStone_IV_staff_list other than Wiki Moderator which lists Motte. I've made a page for the wiki team https://gswiki.play.net/Wiki_team, and started it with the 3 members I've seen active on the wiki lately. I'll go ahead and email [email protected] and see if the email goes through, and if so, if anyone on that end feels like 'outing' themselves. It seems super silly to me that membership on a team is referred to as 'outing' when the staff page already designates the primary team for most staff.

pallid pine
plush totem
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The policy, yes. After the decision was already made regarding your situation, which again, at the time was a policy violation and handled according to the policy at the time.

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Therefore, your argument is circular. What it is now does not negate what it was then.

pallid pine
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👍 I just wanted to clarify, based on your statement.

There have been some good changes to the wiki. It's nice there is some wiki team, but maybe you could consider taking player feedback into consideration. Since the wiki wouldn't be what it is today without players doing all the work for years.

wooden dagger
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I think I would say the recent changes to allow third party software pages are a pretty good example of responsiveness to player feedback

plush totem
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We do appreciate feedback which is where many updates have come into play, as Tikba noted. Certain things and decisions, however are not often going to change despite feedback.

plush totem
tardy iron
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FYI, this needs updating on the main homepage in reference to where to go on Discord to discuss wiki stuff since the other channel is now archived.

image.png
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Tivvy used to be on the wiki team, uncertain if still is now since being promoted to an APM role.

plush totem
shy marten
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I'm still involved with wiki stuff. I've cut back on some of the things I used to do but I'm still part of most of the decision-making discussions and I manage the moderator team. I do less of the day-to-day wiki work than I used to but I'm still lurking about.

tardy iron
raven olive
drifting walrus
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Hey all, just to add in to that question about the wiki team. We have a lot of teams that aren't part of the 4 main teams, and many of us straddle multiple areas. For example, we have a Platinum team that has members of Production, Dev, and Events. It can be really confusing, and sometimes we don't refer to some of these the same way internally.

For the wiki team though, Isten, Kaikala, Tivvy, Xeraphina, and myself are parts of the decision-making aspects. We don't all get involved with every decision though. But then we have some senior staff that do a lot for the wiki and get involved in certain areas. We have GMs who have helped with coding portions that we export information from the game to the wiki (or spreadsheets).

None of us have access to the localsettings.php though, that's something that only the in-house IT person has access to, for security reasons. I know it was mentioned earlier about hosting some .dll file to make the Wizard work. I wouldn't feel comfortable with allowing that file type for obvious reasons. But I also just did a fresh install of the Wizard and had no issues with getting it to run, so I'm not sure what the issue might be. I'll let Simu know though. The Wizard is considered unsupported, and it has been since well before my time. I understand we have players that are strictly Wizard FE users, and that's likely why it has remained up on play.net.

Game staff has really stepped in and helped grow the wiki in recent years. Initially when the wiki went from the Krakiipedia to GSWiki, the goal was to support the hosting and login authenticating (since it required players to be on there with an active account). Part of making sure things are uniform is to create policies, style guides, and so on so that it looks cohesive. I know that part might get lost at times, but it's really so the final product looks as good as we can get it. I know there is/was some back and forth about third-party support on the wiki. This was a stance from Simutronics from long ago. I never got involved with Lich because I was on staff at a point where it was grounds for termination if we used it. Psinet was around before I was staff, but I was becoming a GameHost and it was prohibited. I feel we've really changed a lot of those past decisions and have been much more supportive of third-party software in recent years. We even had EO do a panel at SimuCon in 2022.

I truly listen to everyone's feedback. If it feels like I don't, just understand, I got a lot going on. It's hard to be tuned in everywhere. The wiki has a long history of ups and downs. But I really do feel like we've been moving in a positive direction the last some years.

raven olive
# drifting walrus Hey all, just to add in to that question about the wiki team. We have a lot of ...

Too bad that the Wizard is considered "unsupported" because bluntly it's alot more stable and works much better than Wyrath. Wrayth is buggy, crashes often. Heck just doing my daily log ins, and the FE likes to crash two to four times out of the twenty or so characters I log in because I suffer from FOMO on the log in boosts.

Don't get me wrong, I've grown to enjoy many aspects of Wrayth since I finally caved upon returning in Nov-2019 and decided to give it a serious go. There are some things it does so much better than the Wizard. Those aspects though that it does better at times don't outweigh the issues of the crashes.

On the Wikipedia, as a player I really appreciate that it exists and that its getting worked upon. As someone who would rather read up on how something works versus asking folks, it is a boon. That said, dealing with some people in regards to the Wiki can be frustrating, one person in particular I find quite abrasive and not helpful. Ah well, what can you do, I'm sure many fine me as a PITA as well.

Also, on the FE, getting them running when I returned was a real PITA and problemantic. So the break down on what you need to do to get The Wizard or Wrayth to actually run could use some work, at least when I last checked into it while trying to trouble shoot it when I first returned. I know I'm not unique in having those issues and I know that like many of those who had problems it's not like we aren't computer savvy, most of us are. Want to keep the game alive, working on the FE issues would be a good focus.

umbral summit
plush totem
wooden dagger
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That’s a good callout, I remember looking at that but I wasn’t sure how to confirm the actual level of the creatures

plush totem
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Sorry, answering at stop lights, so details will need to wait from me

umbral summit
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Ok I see them now. I should have those 4 sorted in a few

serene lake
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You can verify the levels of individual creatures using 703 (or anything with a level-based pushdown of some kind), but for modern creatures that spawn in a range, the most reliable way to verify their baseline level is the Adventurer's Guild. Pop onto test on a low level alt, BOOST BOUNTY, and level up until the adventurer's guild will assign them to you (adjust via HARDER/EASIER if necessary). They'll always start assigning them at 5 levels over, even if they could spawn at a lower level.

umbral summit
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Added those 4 to the templates, and got them showing on the similar level tables. Thanks for the guidance all

reef flame
# raven olive Too bad that the Wizard is considered "unsupported" because bluntly it's alot mo...

Honestly I have no experience with Wizard since the 90s but I'm wondering if your experience with Wrayth is the exception or the rule. I frequently have 2-3 Wrayth instances open and am constantly cycling between a horde/army of alts to swap bounties and I can't recall the last time it crashed. I have very few complaints about Wrayth and have a hard time finding any reason to even try Wizard.

I don't doubt you have/had issues with Wrayth but I'm really curious why our experiences are night and day.

raven olive
# reef flame Honestly I have no experience with Wizard since the 90s but I'm wondering if you...

You and me both, it's been utterly frustrating to deal with Wyrath honestly. There doesn't feel like there is any rhyme or reason to it. I've uninstalled it and reinstalled it at one point. I'd actually had a run of about 2 weeks where it worked everytime I logged in, no matter which character. And yet the today was four different characters where the FE craps out as I log in. It's fascinating and of course frustrating. I might try the uninstall install trick again at some point. A bit bus right now and in the middle of something. lol

thorny zenith
vernal glacier
plush totem
stable oak
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So i was someone asked to fix my image attributions. How do we do this and communicate it back to the person asking?

plush totem
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It depends on the image type. If it was commisioned artwork and you are the copyright holder, you should notate that you are the copyright holder on the image file page, and captioned on the page(s) where the image is used. It's not required, but if you wish to attribute the artist that you commissioned so that they may additionally and potentially get more commissions, you would want to notate who the artist is and link to their page on the image file page (and noted in the caption of the image on the page the image was used).

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You can then respond via talk page where the initial request was placed.

woven girder
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Is including the artist credit in the JPG we upload acceptable? Like I have full commercial ownership of every single piece of art I have ever purchased, but I usually ask for a watermarked version as well for website sharing becuase I like promoting them

plush totem
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I'll be working on updating the style guide to include examples of how to display attribution, if that helps.

woven girder
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Does it need to be clickable? Just a watermark with their website isn't acceptable?

plush totem
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It doesn't need to be clickable, but it's much more helpful in getting people connected with the artist.

woven girder
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Gotcha! Thanks! I'll look forward to the design guide but I think I've got the gist!

stable oak
thorny zenith
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Can.

plush totem
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I'm going to be adding it to the Style guide shortly... once I figure out wording.

stable oak
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Oh. Do we have an AI art policy?

plush totem
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It's in the update to the policy.

stable oak
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Thank you. I want to be on the correct guidance. 👍

fossil plank
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Editors agree that their edits and articles may become the property of Simutronics and GemStone IV, as outlined in Copyrights.


The GemStone Wiki derives its content through the contribution of many members. By contributing to the GemStone Wiki, you are agreeing that all of your submitted information will be made available under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 or later version. If any submitted content is covered by an alternate license, the article(s) must contain proper indication of the correct license information at the bottom of the page.```
Tell me you don't have any lawyers on staff without telling me you don't have any lawyers on staff
plush totem
thorn breach
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Ever changing guidelines are exactly how you end up with a players corner/ krakepedia situation. As is this type of behavior "Example areas of concern include commenting on the usefulness of skills, spells or other mechanical systems in-general or in comparison to others or comparing professions or races, and features there-of, to one another."

wooden dagger
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can you clarify what you mean by that? I don't understand the comment

lime lion
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I took it as some skills are near useless and there should be some leeway to warn people off them

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413, for example, should be noted as a skill that might be a waste of mana - if you can ward something, why do you need to ward it to lower the TD? And if you can't ward it reliably, how are you going to ward it to reduce the TD?

There is a definite skill imbalance. I dont think it needs to have a picture of a dumpster fire on it, but I think adding a moderately respectful note to its efficacy shouldn't be out of line

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TLDR; The game is wildly complicated as is, forcing someone to navigate it blind doesnt add to the experience

wooden dagger
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makes sense. the style guide says: Articles written for GSWiki which are purely mechanical in nature should be written with a Neutral Point of View (NPOV), that is without bias or extensive use of subjective language. For mechanics articles, this is not generally an issue, as applying bias to mechanics is difficult at best, but the policy should be kept in mind none-the-less.

to me this doesn't bar saying, for example, that the throwing net is an extremely ineffective weapon, or that TD-reducing spells are difficult to use. it's hard for me to think of any examples on mechanical pages that would violate this currently, although that's just my view

plush totem
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I say this as not a mechanics person... this is where TALK pages would come in super handy.

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The main article itself should follow what Tikba has posted, however the TALK pages can be used to discuss the merits of these items.

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The TALK pages are meant for discussion, and is not relegated simply to discussion on formatting of the page. It can include additional context, testing, examples of use, etc.

lime lion
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I'll be honest, I've never checked a TALK page in my life, and I've been editing regular Wikipedia since I heard about it from Jon Stosel on 20/20 lol

(But I can definitely start if necessary)

plush totem
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As long as the Discussion tab on a page isn't highlighted red, it's often worth a read.

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It's amazing the amount of information that can be held there.

umbral summit
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Its usually a good read, even if its just to see who else was doing what and when

wooden dagger
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I kind of read this as saying, like, please don't be writing "wizards are way cooler than rogues" or it's stupid that they ever made this spell" or things like that. I don't think analysis of utility is necessarily subjective. as the rule says, it's difficult to be biased when describing numbers in the game

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not impossible, lol, but difficult

lime lion
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Fair enough, thin line to tread though. So hopefully both sides can be reasonable

vernal glacier
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✅ "Due to the extreme amount of asparagus required to conjure Todd's Petulant Flatulence, players may find it difficult to effectively utilize the spell."

🚫 "Todd's flatulence is a terrible spell, don't bother"

crude egret
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But I also just did a fresh install of the Wizard and had no issues with getting it to run, so I'm not sure what the issue might be.
Hey Wyrom. Speaking as one of the Wizard FE only folks. The issue for me occurred recently when my wife's computer took a long walk off a short pier and we ended up with a new Windows 11 notebook. So it might have something to do with Windows 11. At any rate, the .DLL file was needed as well as setting up two registry entries before Wizard FE would install correctly.

umbral summit
coral sigil
plush totem
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That is something a player is more than welcome to do

coral sigil
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Ok ty

fossil plank
umbral summit
wooden dagger
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there was a missing close angle bracket, fixed up

umbral summit
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I glanced right past that. Thanks

rigid pike
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I feel that's my fault and I apologize

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Let's see what other verb pages I can slaughter in the next couple days

lime lion
kind tinsel
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as penance, code the new slaughter verb

plush totem
rigid pike
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YEAR OF THE ROLTON

plush totem
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Just as a heads up, we have a solution in the works for this, but I'm waiting on feedback from one more person before I present it (in full) here. The idea is to basically have a namespace that is a "catchall" for shops like this one, or other multi-venue shops... or when shops get rolled out randomly without being tied to any specific festival or event.

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I did quick research on the one I had mentioned before as the example, Weave and Wear, and in doing so, I discovered that it was basically a shop that was duplicated (ie built) in two different realms to allow for it to show up at EG and the premium festival.

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That's not something a player would have been able to see, though, without being able to see the real room ids.

lime lion
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Thats interesting, why not 1 shop with 2 entrances?

plush totem
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The easy answer: realms.

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I'm not sure how much detail I can actually get into about it beyond what I already stated, but it wouldn't have worked that way.

tardy iron
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So we have a "GO" on the D&D one-shot campaign for general release to the public and was wanting to see about hosting it on our wiki. What page would be best to create to host these types of things as I'm sure there will be more one-shot campaigns created based on Simutronics IP in the future. Here's the announcement from Lyneya over on the DragonRealms side:

[9:33 PM] Lyneya: Ok I just confirmed with the writing team that it's fine to share the full package with you all.  Miskton, Mazrian, Melindrha, Irenos, GS's Thandiwe and my Ben all worked together to make this happen.  Peri'el's Tale is the DR version and Cholen's Play is the GS version - they're identical except for the swapping of names and such where necessary. The class folders each have a DR-themed character and a GS-themed character, plus all of their ability cards.

[9:34 PM]Lyneya: In practice, the character sheets were double-sided.  If you wanted to be the artificer, one side had Kertigen and the other side had Eonak.

[9:34 PM]Horibu: Nice! Should definitely be hosted on the wiki perhaps under a D&D campaign modules or something?
[9:35 PM]Lyneya: I believe Thandiwe has plans in that direction, touch base with her for the GS side of that?  I leave it to my players if someone wants to get this all on elanthipedia

[9:36 PM]Lyneya: It's our IP on open-source D&D sheets, so it's fine to use as long as we're not selling it

[9:39 PM]Lyneya: Please give praise to the team involved in putting the module together they did an amazing job!

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/619364127407734785/1133572786057662464/2023_SimuCon_DD_One-Shot-20230726T005204Z-001.zip

granite yarrow
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Oh, are you handling that? I was going to work on it this weekend.

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(and can see where she specifically says that I was handling it)

tardy iron
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Oh, if you're going to post it up, that's fine!

umbral summit
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These go with the Elanthia 5e stuff? This is epicly awesome

tardy iron
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Yep, I believe it's based on 5e rules. You can download the zip to look at it, it's quite nice. Lots of great work put in by those who made it! I think the only GS4 contributor was Thandiwe. hattip

plush totem
tardy iron
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Yeah, I'm uncertain if they're tied to that existing Elanthia 5e page info or not. Thandiwe will have to speak to that.

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More thinking about perhaps a category for D&D things that then can link to the Elanthia 5e page and any future page (one-shots, etc) that are made.

granite yarrow
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Yes. it is 5e.

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I do not know if they are tied to that Elanthia 5e

raven olive
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TWo of my favorite memes in regards to DnD.

image.png
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The second one is what I end up seeing around here sadly. The best I can usually do is DCC Rpg which is a DnD variant but its a hoot to play even if it is a hot mess.

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plush totem
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Semi off-topic

fallow lava
plush totem
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@tardy iron moving this part here since it's specific to the wiki:
I've mentioned to Quilic already that the inventory page was a work in progress already as formatting was still being worked out by one of our moderators, so it's not quite up to par in terms of how it should (eventually) look, but the information is there, at least. I'm also looking at reviewing the functional item table for some minor formatting fixes to eliminate some of the redundancy that is currently there, but it's a "when I get to it" type situation.

tardy iron
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That's fine, I was just updating the totals for premium items for the 5 slots that got more items cause they were only increased by +1 instead of +2. Didn't want people to not realize they get that additional non-functional item! We can wear 91 items instead of 81 now! All the screen scroll!

plush totem
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praise be shimmer trinkets

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The information is there and out to players, so that's the important part. Making it look chefkiss isn't as immediate.

plush totem
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@thorny zenith There may be a fundamental misunderstanding on how saved posts/saved discord posts are posted to the wiki that I should explain.

thorny zenith
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I've reverted my change.

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I think the post as is, is confusing. Because it has December's date, but teasers from this run

plush totem
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As in, each post would actually have the saved discord link/header. This is a format/style that has been in place for ages at this point.

thorny zenith
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I'm not trying to push on any of that: I'm in favor of the pattern. I'm saying if you look at Thandiwe's post, which now is as it was posted, I don't think it's correct

plush totem
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That may be the way it was posted, but she additionally separated out her addition of the shop list with a header which indicates that it is a separate section entirely than the "general information" section. It's not wrong in its current state.

thorny zenith
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If it's clear to you which dates the teasers refer to, I'm happy to defer

plush totem
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It is, and additionally, the title of the article/page clearly states "August 2023"

spark relic
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it seems to clear to me, however I can see how it might be confusing to someone less familiar with the wiki since only one of those four sections is a saved discord post; the others are just standard sections with information presented on the wiki as-is, not saved from a discord post.

plush totem
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The side note to that would be adding in the header for the shop list (and other teasers) for those posts to refer back to the saved posts... but in truth, the saved posts portion was in place to preserve posts that were made by someone else entirely, primarily a player saving a GM's post to the wiki prior to GMs being more involved and posting their own items there instead.

unborn cargo
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The example cited also adds dates to each new header to ensure the information is accurately associated to a date and post.

The August wiki page does not. Sure, if the reader is familiar with the wiki formatting they can piece it together. You can also say the page in it's current state is only date stamping a single post and leaving itself open to misunderstanding. If the goal is clarity, is it possible to add the post dates for each block of info?

image.png image.png
plush totem
unborn cargo
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yeah, i'm catching up completely - and I can remove the post. My bad jumping the gun 🙂

plush totem
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No need to remove it, just pointing out that it was already stated.

unborn cargo
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also, Hi 👋

plush totem
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It's generally something our moderators go in and handle, but we've also had wonkiness this past week, so they haven't been able to jump into doing certain things as a result. I'm certain it will be handled at some point this week. That's also not to say that having that template added in for the posts is just in the moderators, as players can do it just as well.

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Those posts should be handled in the same way as saved posts have always been, with the side note of them using the saved-discord-post template instead of just the saved-post template of yore (from yon days of old officials)

wooden dagger
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I was thinking about building out the valence weapon page with the new valence flavors. in practice, although the valence weapons are all under the "valence weapon" umbrella, each different weapon type has different abilities. looking for views on whether it makes the most sense organization-wise to put these all on one page or if it would be better to do something like Valence Weapon (Blades), Valence Weapon (Runestaves), etc.

plush totem
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Similar to animalistic spirit

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Sometimes, there's too much for one page, so those are exceptions, not the rule

wooden dagger
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thanks! I'll take that approach

plush totem
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@mystic elm I'm tagging you here so you have it on your radar for future needs.

mystic elm
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Thanks! I don't know why it was invisible for me earlier! However, I'm not gonna double post it!

plush totem
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No worries! I already forwarded your message to our moderator

mystic elm
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Only gonna say, Thanks and great work, all wiki peoples!

pallid pine
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Okay, so, there's so much in the HESS shop now, it's hard to see what's what. I want to do, what I did here: https://gswiki.play.net/High_End_Scrip_Shop/shop_list_February_2021

Sorted by type.

Does anyone have any preference for what I NAME the actual page before I start on this.

(Going to do it on a new page vs rewriting the hess page.)

wooden dagger
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That’s a great idea honestly, you should subpage it by date as well

pallid pine
wooden dagger
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Oh I don’t know if I would subpage it off the main HESS page I was thinking like HESS_sorted/Aug_2023

pallid pine
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Too late, no take backs.

serene lake
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I like putting dates first so they autosort nicely, especially as categories.
YYYY-MM_Subject-title_(differentiation)
I don't think there's any official policy on that sort of thing, though.

fallen venture
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I try to do all my date-related things like that at work and home....and it drives me nuts when my co-workers don't. So I am a strong advocate for it!

granite yarrow
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Gods, same.

pallid pine
shell bough
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(I want this kind of breakdown but for the RW shop lists and "stuff for PCs" vs "stuff for mounts" lol)

pallid pine
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I finished it, and I rearranged for the final time I think.

kind tinsel
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I believe Certifiable is missing the Second Set of unlocks for forest armor on the wiki (it has the base tiers but not the new enhancive boosters).

shy marten
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I'll take care of it. Thanks for the reminder.

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All fixed!

kind tinsel
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It looks like you added it to February's specific page

shy marten
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This is what I get for updating at 5 am.

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It's not February?!

kind tinsel
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It could be, but it means 3 MORE weeks of DR

shy marten
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Yay, DR is my favorite time of year!

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Should be fixed now.

silver skiff
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Any objection to using {{Special:PrefixIndex/{{FULLPAGENAME}}/|stripprefix=yes|hideredirects=yes}} instead of manually linking previous shop listings on shop pages?

plush totem
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As an aside, since you're here, the wiki TEAM spoke and it was decided that the shops that are 1. Shops that pop up in multiple festivals or 2. Shops that just randomly show up without being tied to a specific festival or event would need to make use of the TrMShop: (Traveling merchant) namespace. This is a bit of a catchall for those shops which are less frequent but still do occur.

kind tinsel
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I'm curious at just how casually you're confirming the now Sentience of the Wiki

plush totem
vestal wagon
plush totem
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By all means.

serene lake
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Will the HESS+ cart (Whale-Mart) be catalogued on the wiki like the shops, or is it a player-side thing?

shy marten
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🤔

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s'good question.

pallid pine
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I will document it once there's an official name for it (Mostly because people will talk about it and then I'll wonder, what was that thing 5 years ago and what were the details)

shy marten
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pretty sure the official name is Moon Whopper

serene lake
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It IS?!

shy marten
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That's all I've ever heard!

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Don't quote me though as I was quite feverish at the time.

thorny zenith
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Whale Mart!

kind tinsel
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Look, just put it on the wiki and it'll be official enough. The truth of 1000 lies and all that

thorny zenith
mighty glacier
#

can we please just list it on like the HESS page so I dont have to remember some wild name 5 years down the road you can put a little note saying it was a special not cart put out or something.

shy marten
#

It's not part of HESS, though.

shy marten
#

I'm adding it to the shops page as the name of the cart

mystic elm
plush totem
#

I, too, hate that the apostrophe is so close to the enter button

mystic elm
#

And it's my LEG that is broken, not my hand/arm/fingers, so I have no excuse on the slipping keyboard.

plush totem
# mystic elm Hey Team Wiki, I am getting all the EG stuff in place for the TownCrier and have...

This is intentional. Ebon Gate is the overall festival, but has up until Naidem/ Evermore Hollow been in multiple venues. Each venue has been separated out and the information is transcluded to the over all event category. Any updates should be handled on the Evermore Hollow pages and transcluded to the Ebon Gate category page. The transclusions are generally all set up so it would just be a matter of staying in the section parameters and it'll auto-update on the over all EG category page

plush totem
mystic elm
#

So use the Evermore Hollow for the main reference? It'll hold the same info as the other one?

plush totem
mystic elm
#

Autocorrect.Must.Die.

And thank you Miss Xeraphina.

plush totem
#

If you need further help, be sure to ask. I'm not home right now, though.

crude egret
#

Youtube is frequently another example - you used to be able to look something up and could find a web page with the information needed in a couple of minutes. Now everyone feels pre-possessed to make a 10 minute video that you have to watch to cover the very same information.

mystic elm
#

Now that the Trove is back out of purgatory ... where do you want the wiki page for it started?

Because the one last year was under the Ebon Gate Treasure Trove page, which has all kinds of "no longer relevant" warning stuffs on it.

I'd prefer not to make a page that someone has to come back by and clean up.

wooden dagger
#

the new version is also very different so it feels like some kind of newish page would be best, although not sure how we'd want to disambiguate

plush totem
#

Actually

#

It would be better to keep it on the same page, and whatever historical information there was can be preserved as a subpage to the original.

#

Please do not create an entirely brand new page for it when the original page can still suffice, as long as it is properly updated.

mystic elm
#

So it needs to be:

Ebon Gate Treasure Trove/2023

Then?

kind tinsel
#

Trove - V16 - The latest iteration - Super Mega Multi-Trove

plush totem
#

Not quite. The overall main page here should hold the updates for the trove going forward. The 2023 subpage should be specific to this year's prizes (being mindful not to include player names as we wish to protect privacy and this has been specifically requested by players that their names be left off as winners).

Moving the information off that no longer applies would look something like: Ebon Gate Treasure Trove/Historical information and would solely house the information of what is changing from how it is being run now. It really doesn't feel like a significant amount is changing, however, as it seems it's just that you'll need a service pass instead and you can buy the tokens for silvers instead of getting them in random drops.

mystic elm
#

I'm not touching the original page, just making a place for people to document the new prizes for this year. Hence my confusion.

plush totem
#

Ah, I see.

#

Because the one last year was under the Ebon Gate Treasure Trove page, which has all kinds of "no longer relevant" warning stuffs on it. This led me to believe you were referring to a new page entirely covering the subject.

mystic elm
#

So Evermore Hollow/Treasure Trove 2023

No, I just want to know where to put the new one

plush totem
#

Ebon Gate Treasure Trove/2023 - This is correct

mystic elm
#

KK, thank you Miss Xeraphina! I'll get it started now, before the madness.

plush totem
#

Also, I've removed the deprecated banner from the main page, but noted that it would need to be updated.

mystic elm
#

I've been un-doing "The Trove Is Gone" for the last hour, so I know how you feel 🙂

twilit nacelle
#

Just noticed on the wiki for Heroism (215) that it says that Cleric Base ranks are needed to extend duration. I've assumed it's ranks of Major Spiritual? https://gswiki.play.net/Heroism_(215)

plush totem
#

I'm putting a note/notice here. The Wiki team has started the process of a few things, and I'm going to lay it out for clarity's sake:

  • The separation of Help pages and Style pages.
  • This is based on a few things, but the biggest thing is that help pages should be focused solely on how to do the things on the wiki, ie wiki markup, the basics. This is essentially information that would be able to be used across wikis, such as how to create what sort of table, collapsible sections, etc etc.
  • Style pages are things that are specific to the GSWiki and pertains to how to format certain articles, such as item pages, verbs, etc.
  • Part of this shift will have us reviewing creative works and how they should be handled. There are a few various things that we need to look into, but essentially, we have managed to create a definition that will allow us to sift and sort through things to get them properly catalogued, if not done already, while also ensuring other things are set properly.
  • To this end, the most basic definition we have come up for regarding creative works is that they are article written from the lens of a character. This is separate from vignettes which are often quick snapshots of off-screen RP that are written ABOUT characters from the lens of the player.
  • Additionally, there are player-run storylines (as defined by storyline guidelines) which may be similar in nature to vignettes, but be expanded beyond a single character (where single chararacter vignettes involve only one contributor and should be tied to the character page as a subpage). We're still working through the finer details of this, however, so we appreciate your patience as we review and analyze these types of articles.

Please be aware that this comes at the heels of the creative works template not quite being used in a manner that is consistent across the board which isn't really anyone's fault. It wasn't clearly defined and there isn't much on the style guide for clarity.

plush totem
#

That depends. Do you want a general example or a specific one.

#

For the most part, you can view creative works in the category of you want an example. Comparatively, there are perhaps a fraction of those that aren't necessarily correct in their approach/categorization

#

And since I literally just said that we have a very basic definition as of this point, calling out specifics will only cause confusion.

pallid pine
#

Are we able to do a fixed TOC that has a fixed placement so it sticks when you scroll up/down the page?

plush totem
#

From what I can see, there are no templates that are available to allow this sort of thing. I understand what you're asking for, but that is something that would require more program code (ie, not wiki markup/basic html) than even what wikipedia uses.

pallid pine
#

There's a position:fixed option but it places it on the left side in front of all the actual information. Nbd though, ty

tardy iron
plush totem
#

👍 Thank you for finding that. I'm not sure if what's presented is capable of working on our wiki. You are welcome to attempt to test it on our wiki or create a template for it, however depending on how it works, it will likely not be best to use on all pages.

plush totem
#

I'm pinning it so that it can be pulled again in the future if it scrolls off.

rustic wasp
#

Not sure if this is the right place to make requests, but I would love to see all the Nielira Harbor shops added to the wiki... and for the mandrake page to be updated similar to the one for the teadragon. I'm happy to plug in messaging once the "framework" is in place but being the one to actually add the template/formatting scares me

winter vapor
mystic rover
#

Is this extension installed? It might be the way to go for Lore chart/spell page data

image.png
shy marten
mystic rover
#

this page has gotten a little out of hand since I last edited it, and I understand Motte is no longer on staff, I can make a go at it if staff is okay with a semi-substantial makeover https://gswiki.play.net/Inventory

plush totem
#

Feel free! It was on my to do, but lower on my list.

mystic rover
#

I fixed Template:Script last night to account for the Wrayth name change and be backwards compatible, but there are a lot of StormFront references in various articles that might be a good job for a bot to change, or maybe link references to StormFront as the redirect goes to the Wrayth page

mystic rover
#

@plush totem https://gswiki.play.net/Category:Inventory_system_verbs
It looks like this category was never completed, do you want it completed? We also have item mechanics. my inclination would be to put all the verbs in here, and put the category in item mechanics. only verb pages in item mechanics are REGISTER and MARK and given their importance I would leave them, but it's up to you.

image.png
#

another option is the categorize the Inventory page

plush totem
#

The category is likely incomplete because the verb pages haven't been fully converted to the new standard and utilize the template to categorize them where they need to go. It was/is a longstanding project that anyone can work on. "Inventory" should likely be in item mechanics only, though, and not actually in the verb category since it's meant to focus solely on verbs.

mystic rover
#

I stuck it up in the * of the verb category

#

regardless of verb page status, do you want the category completed?

mighty otter
#

I have a message regarding an AI image that was uploaded for a character page, but I don't see any information on HOW to make these changes so that my image doesn't get deleted.

plush totem
plush totem
mighty otter
#

It's already captioned with midjourney and all that. is there an image you can point me to, to serve as an example?

plush totem
#

Could you link the image in question so I can see where the issue may be?

mighty otter
plush totem
#

So here is why it was flagged:

  1. The image file page itself does not have the information required as noted in the policy. This includes that is was generated by Midjourney utilizing prompts by either yourself or another person, and if prompted by another player, does not include that the upload was allowed by the other player, ie permissions.
  2. It is missing the [[Category:AI artwork]] on the image file page.
  3. While there, the caption for the image does not actually note that the image was approved for upload by the person who created the image utilizing Midjourney, it merely, I'm assuming, references who did it.

This is information that is outlined in the AI artwork policy which I linked.

mighty otter
#

I've read that information, and I"m trying to make sure that my image does fall in line with the requirements. I've asked for an image that does meet the requirements because I don't know how to make this happen.

plush totem
#

This was for an image that was prompted and uploaded by the same person. If done by someone who is not the uploader, that information needs to be included, and that permission for the upload was granted.

#

The caption on the page where the image was uploaded needs to mirror that information as well. While the page where Jaysehn's image is uploaded has the caption, it's set up to show when hovered over (and may need to be changed dependent on accessibility).

#

So for now, don't do the hover over, please.

mighty otter
#

Is it now meeting the requirements, or do I need to make additional changes? and, do I need to do this for all my images that I've ever uploaded?

plush totem
#

So a couple of things:

  1. The template marking it for deletion needs to remain in place until our moderator reviews it to ensure it is correct. This is not something that should be deleted by a player, and it is not something I would remove, either, after answering your question to confirm whether something is set up properly. It is something that the moderator would need to follow-up on, regardless, to ensure completion of standards, and it's not for me to remove it when it is on their list.
  2. From what I see the information on the image file page is what is needed, however that information needs to be mirrored in the caption for the image where the image is used, as well, so that would need to be updated.
pallid pine
#

I love how easy the process is.

spark relic
#

Is it a pain to update text even on images uploaded sevearl years ago? Yeah. As someone who creates art, though, I personally appreciate the new wiki standards to ensure that artists are properly credited for their work and to reduce the risk of outright theft. I still am very unhappy with the AI art policy, but at least it's marginally better than it was before.

wind estuary
#

Hi all: “Ship Flag Settings” might need an update re: White Flag to bring it into line with the new flag release, on the main OSA page: https://gswiki.play.net/Open_Sea_Adventures

I don’t know how to update, so thought I’d post it here, and see if another kind soul was willing to do it.

plush totem
#

I know it's been fairly quiet in here due to the wiki updates, but also because while I have been keeping an eye on things, I was away for almost a month due to a family emergency. I plan on getting back into the swing of things now that I'm back home.

wind estuary
coral sigil
#

I goofed when adding some NPCs to a platinum storyline page.

Is there a way for me to remove the Category: or a mod needs to fix this?

image.png image.png
plush totem
#

It'll create a redirect on the page(s) the move occurred to the new/correct page, at which point, you can add the {{delete}} template/comment on the talk page that the page was made in error and the moderator can delete the redirect page (we would otherwise want to keep redirects in place, but given that it's a category page, deleting would be preferred).

coral sigil
#

Ok ty for the explanation

plush totem
#

You're welcome!

plush totem
#

Just dropping a line in here. I've pushed out the guidelines for shop inventory pages. This included instructions on page setup, formatting, and the TrMShop namespace for shops that are not part of a specific festival or pay event, which includes shops such as the book wagon or traveling merchant caravans. I had meant to get this out in November, but unfortunately had a significant family emergency which pulled me away for almost a month.

#

These guidelines have mostly already been used and in place, this is just formalizing and explaining in case players opt to do shop inventories.

stable oak
#

I could use some help please after the holidays, whenever people who are in the know have time.

I've recieved a lengthy set of instructions about how the art I've uploaded needs to be formatted and categorized. When I uploaded every single image, it included attribution as to the source in as transparent a way as I could manage given my limited understanding of how the wiki works.

I don't stay logged into the wiki. I don't notice that I have pending talk pages information. I don't even know HOW to conversate on talk pages. If a Host or Wiki mod or someone similar can see an issue, can't that person simply DM me so I know about the issue and am not scrambling on Xmas morning to meet a 7 day time limit to solve the issue before all my images are deleted?

Also, where do I learn HOW to do these things? Please don't point me to another wiki article on how to do the things in the wiki. I was asked by a GM to post over a dozen of these images. If I knew it would come with editing work and having to spend my xmas morning sorting this out because no contact was made to me beyond the wiki talk page, I would have never even attempted to do this favor.

So, if someone could help me understand how to add categories to images. How to add captions to images. How to make sure the captions say what they are supposed to say and recommend a swift way to do all this, I would appreciate that so I can get back to my family.

#

Also, what is the rule for Art that is edited by the user in Photoshop with AI generated components but not fully AI?

plush totem
# stable oak I could use some help please after the holidays, whenever people who are in the ...

Good morning.

I'll start by answering regarding communication: Moderators are only allowed to communicate via TALK pages. This has always been the policy with regards to how the communicate with editors. TALK pages work in the same way as regular wiki pages, in that you can communicate back by editing the page, however you would need to ensure you are signing the communication, as well, by using ~~~~ at the end of it.

For category adding on an image file page: In order to add a category, you would need to open that page's edit function (either source/legacy editing, or visual editing), and add in the link to the appropriate category. This works in the same way as a regular page edit would. Since you mentioned AI art, adding into the page, or file page, would look akin to this: [[Category:AI artwork]]. If it's easier, I would suggest sticking to source/legacy editing.

The same goes for adding the information to the image as adding the category does, by opening the edit on the page and adding it.

From what I've seen in edit history, you're generally pretty good about having that information on there, and from what I can tell, based on the TALK discussion, our moderator has already added the appropriate categories to all by two images and messaged you as more of a heads up for those. As far as the ones that were marked, the reason is because they are images of another player's character, and it was not notated on the character's TALK page that permission was given by the player to do. This can be done using the steps outlined above. You can simply make a notation that permission was granted to upload the image and edit the player's page to include the images.

plush totem
coral sigil
#

Are there plans to have a form for players to request something be added to the wiki by a moderator? I think a lot of folks would like to contribute but as someone that can kind of dabble the sheer amount of formatting rules is daunting at times.

plush totem
#

The biggest thing is to get it on the wiki. If you're concerned about formatting, please don't be! One of the moderators' jobs is to ensure things follow both policy and style guide. One of the reasons behind getting updated guidelines is not just for players but for moderators to follow up on. In cases where it might be a policy violation, or it would result in edits to a PC or User page, that is when the moderator will most typically reach out about fixing. Sometimes, they may reach out for clarification on edits done on pages that aren't the ones I just listed.

Additionally, just as a moderator uses user talk pages to communicate, editors/ players are more than welcome to use the moderators' user talk page to ask questions, etc.

shy marten
thorn breach
#

Copy the format from FNN issue 8 and it should be current....you can click on a photo and do edit to see what has to go there as well....and they need to match.

mighty otter
#

On your image page, you should do ```== Summary ==
Created in Midjourney by player of Person1, updated by Person2, uploaded by player of Person3 with permission

[[Category:AI artwork]]``` Do this in "edit source", otherwise it does weird things.

stable oak
#

As I sit here with 2 hours to go on my 7 day deadline, i'd like to make few quick observations:

  • If DISCORD is the official method for communication in Gemstone, then it should be the ONLY method of communication in gemstone alongside email. If moderators do not have the power to communicate in any other way, they should alert at GM who does have those powers and communication should be made to the wiki user in official channels.

  • If GMs make a request of a player to upload anything to the wiki, the GMs in question should be willing to handle these editing issues. I made a good faith effort to make sure proper attribution for the images I put up, at GM request, contained the necessary information about their origin. It was not a small amount of time and work to do this. This 7 day deadline wrapped around the holidays feel ridiculous and punitive.

  • It would be nice to see these standards apply to all if they are going to apply to some. It took me about 3 minutes to find AI art that was up on the wiki since September of 2022, put there by a GM on a very prominent NPC that is not following current standards. I will expect to see a 7 day warning put on that page, I hope, so that everyone is on the same standards.

thorn breach
#

There's a few...policies....that scream administrator to me....not lawyer, not executive...but administrator. That being said it's nice to have a joint wiki with the officials so you just have to deal with it.

plush totem
# stable oak As I sit here with 2 hours to go on my 7 day deadline, i'd like to make few quic...

So, I'm not sure where the confusion is on what the moderator communicated to you, as from what I read on that, the only real issues were images that were uploaded and added to the character Hadya's page. These were specially called out as such, and those were the ones marked for deletion. These would be handled very easily in the way that I explained in my initial response: if you were given permission to do so for that character, you merely need to notate that on the character profile's talk page.

There was nothing stated in regards to attribution on any of the other images you uploaded recently, I'm assuming NPC-related, aside from the moderator giving you a heads up that they've adjusted captions/information/categories, ie handled it already for you, based on what you'd already put on the wiki.

stable oak
# plush totem So, I'm not sure where the confusion is on what the moderator communicated to yo...

The standard I was informed about was that I am not allowed to edit a page of a character that is not my own. Hadya was one such example. But, by editing over a dozen NPC pages, I was also now clearly needing to indicate (as I was directed to do for Hadya) that I had permission to edit those pages from their owners. So, I had to go and create a bunch of talk pages (I think) so that I could put in the correct statement (I hope) that I was directed to put the images up by a GM. Maybe I did right. Maybe I didn't. I don't know.

plush totem
#

Okay, so to clarify, NPCs are not standard player characters.

#

Player characters, specifically, are what are being referenced in needing to have that notation. Those pages, like user pages (not user talk pages, as those are for discussions), should only be edited by the account owner unless a proxy was given specific permission to edit the page.

NPCs are not considered under this umbrella.

#

It may have been that the statement the moderator made when referencing "character" was unclear that it was meant specifically for player characters, in which case I can speak with them to ensure that difference is more clearly noted.

outer pivot
#

Anyone know if there a way for me to disable display of imbedded images on GS wiki pages as I am navigating the site? I would like to optionally stop viewing AI portraits there.

spark relic
#

I am also very interested in this optional toggle, if it's possible with the mediawiki updates.

plush totem
#

I don't have an answer for this, and I'm not home right now, but I can look into it and see if possible. Just a a forewarning, if it's an extension that is required and not already in the wiki, it may take a long time or not happen at all.

spark relic
#

Thank you very much for considering and investigating it!

outer pivot
#

Thank you Xeraphina

plush totem
#

Okay, so looking into this, the short answer is yes, there is a way. The long answer is that it is not exactly easy in terms of how to manage it and it would require some toying around even on my end to determine how it works before I can even explain how to do it.

There is an extension, however from what I see, the extension is built specifically based on certain protocols that don't exactly fit where the images in question actually appear. The extension is something that can be discussed on the backend to see if it's even something that would remotely work for our needs, but the caveat remains as above: if approved, it may take a long time to implement or not happen at all.

For the non-extension method, I attempted a quick test to see how it works and in theory, I did it correctly, but it doesn't appear to have actually done what it says it is supposed to do, so this may require more testing to figure out if it's me or the wiki that's not working. The instructions for this method can be found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Options_to_hide_an_image

scenic orchid
hidden spear
#

Privacy and Security -> Site Settings -> Images -> Not allowed to show images

#

Also helpful for sites that want to load a bazillion images and take forever to load

#

But you also wouldn't be able to see maps and what not.

outer pivot
wooden dagger
#

I think in order to properly document the spell disabler review changes the spell template box will need to be updated to be able to contain information about a spell's cast roundtime and mana cost

#

I'm going to take a run at adding these and making them optional (so they will only appear if the value is defined)

#

looks like it works, cast_rt is the parameter for cast time and mana_cost is the parameter for mana cost

plush totem
#

Thank you for doing that

plush totem
#

Hey, wiki-ers. I'm currently going through the process of getting the style guide updated/streamlined a bit with certain things. One of the things that came up probably a couple years ago was the section about user pages. Currently, that portion reads as this: In most cases, personal material should be created as a subarticle of your User page. This would include the following types of articles: unofficial guides and tutorials; gameplay strategies; character-written stories (poems, songs, etc.); logs that do not directly pertain to informational articles or BtS additions.
However, for those who are regularly adding some of this to the wiki, the majority of is listed here has not actually been put on the user subpage only, and because of the sheer volume of articles, such as creative works, that would need to be moved as result, adhering to this specific thing is likely not best.

We have a creative works template for things like short stories/poems/periodicals, etc. that clearly notes that something is not actual lore, and it was written by a player(s). Because of this, I feel like those types are okay to remain on their own pages, as opposed to subpages to the user page. Additionally, we have already established a style format for player vignettes (specifically) that has them tied to the character they should be tied to as a subpage.

All that to say, what I was thinking in terms of that specific section is more so to change it to being: unofficial guides and tutorials, gameplay strategies, gameplay suggestions, item/system suggestions, or basically just removing the portion about creative works in general from there.

And to clarify on unofficials guides/tutorials... There were guides that were part of a wiki contest when the wiki moved to play.net which are "official," as they are open to edits by anyone and cover specific topics only. Anything more than that would need to be locked to the user sub page.

What do we think about this?

pallid pine
#

I'd like my user section to be whatever I want it to be and not have to follow some random template that may or may not fit what I want to use my user space for.

plush totem
#

I'm not sure you understand what I'm specifically stating in terms of the user page

In essence, that's what it already is and should be used for. No one is saying differently, however, right now, the style guide states what items should be there as opposed to on their own pages, which is more an issue with creative works rather than anything else. What I'm specifically asking is if it would be preferred for the language in the style guide for user pages to specifically be updated to remove the information regarding creative works, specifically, to be updated as not being required to be subpages to the user page. They have a template that calls them out as unofficial and player created already. This came up a few years ago because going by the language in the style guide currently for that particular item, if we were to do a full sweep on the wiki, would have resulted in hundreds of pages being moved. That was on hold until further discussion could be had, which is why I'm bringing it up now.

There is no template for user pages or their subpages and aside from policy violations, they're not something we moderate.

thorn breach
#

So...I try to follow the rule...but I did forget in a hurry more than once....on the one hand I think people who make mistakes should be punished severely and made to feel bad....on the other hand I am one of those people and don't want to be punished and made to feel bad

I think I will leave this in the hands of superior decision makers

plush totem
# thorn breach So...I try to follow the rule...but I did forget in a hurry more than once....on...

If you're referring to creative works on user pages, the moderation to move them has been in hold until we determine the best course of action anyway.

There are a lot of creative works that also have multiple contributors, so it's not really feasible to have them set to a specific user's supbage.

Also, unless you're committing an egregious policy violation, you might get a gentle reminder, but you won't get punished... unless I bolt you... but that's more in good fun.

thorn breach
#

Its also a pain in the backside to fix category mistakes once made...you end up with multiple duplicate pages with nothing different but the title....

plush totem
#

We're aware of the issue with category pages... and right now that's not something I can fix. I've bubbled that up since we have 4 pages that i know of that are funky right now due to incorrect initial set up that can't be edited or deleted... which wasn't an issue prior to the updates.

The work around is if a category page is incorrectly set up, do the page move, but unclick the option to leave a redirect. This deletes the incorrect category page entirely. for now, if a page was made by mistake and you don't want a redirect page, please message the moderator to request a page move. We will have some funky growing pans with the updates

pallid pine
plush totem
#

And that's perfectly fine. You can continue to use it that way.

pallid pine
#

FWIW, I think 99% of people don't look at the style guide, that's more of an advanced user kind of thing.

plush totem
#

That's perfectly fine, too. That's why we have moderators

spark relic
#

If I'm understanding the proposed change to the style guide correctly, it sounds like the most significant impact is that creative works (ie, things written by characters) will no longer "need" to be posted to the wiki as a subpage for a user page... which no one really was doing anyway, so the end result is updating the style guide to reflect how creative works have been added for the past however many years. I think that's a good thing.
For what it's worth, if I'm trying to find a given creative works that I've read before, I'm usually trying to find the title of it (or searching for a key word in it); I couldn't keep account names straight.

plush totem
plush totem
#

Hey, guys, just as a heads up, we're in the testing process for some accessibility updates to images. This will not affect images on character pages or creative works articles at this time, and will likely be more optional in those cases. This is an effort to make certain aspects more accessible to visually impaired wiki users who use a screen reader to access content on the wiki.

thorn breach
#

By the time I put all the necessary stuff below a photo, I no longer have the energy or desire to add more text in describing the photo....which is a shame as some of them did have witty names!

plush totem
grim crane
#

Hello. I have attempted to provide the source information for two images I uploaded to the wiki. I added "Created with Midjourney, [[Category:AI artwork]]" to the "summary" section of the image file. I just want to ensure that this was the correct place to add this information -- or if I should provide this information elsewhere in the file page.

plush totem
#

So you actually don't need to add the summary header into the image, just the information on it is fine. As far as the information, you'll want to do something more akin to "Created on Midjourney by the uploader." I actually recommend checking out this image that was uploaded by another editor in terms of what would be a good way to handle compliance for this: https://gswiki.play.net/File:Jaysehn_Portrait.png

Additionally, this information needs to be duplicated on the page(s) where the image is being used. This can be done by doing the caption for the image in the link.

grim crane
plush totem
#

Looks good! The moderator will review it to ensure that it's in compliance and then handle any follow-up if any.

grim crane
#

Thanks, much appreciated! I'm a bit of a Wiki Novice so I wanted to be sure I hadn't messed it up.

plush totem
#

You're welcome!

plush totem
# plush totem Hey, guys, just as a heads up, we're in the testing process for some accessibili...

Following up on this, Phase 1.1 of Image Accessibility has concluded. The artwork archive for Duskruin (https://gswiki.play.net/Category:Duskruin_artwork) has been updated to gallery mode and include alt text. This alt text will not be visible to sighted users, as it is code that is only available to screen readers, however if you want to view the descriptions in order to get an idea of how it would work for screen readers, you can click edit source. Additionally, the text description has been added to the image file pages.

Additionally, I added alt text for the maps, however as describing a map based on text room descriptions was tricky, it's fairly basic, and this is not repeated on the image file pages because that feels more like a practice in redundancy.

grim crane
plush totem
grim crane
#

gotcha. I am guessing users can't important open templates from Wikipedia to the Wiki, we instead have our own formatting? -- and thank you, this is helpful!

plush totem
#

Kind of, sort of? Some templates don't work properly when imported from wikipedia to our wiki. You can try, and there's nothing in the rules that says you're not allowed to. It's more that you should probably test it out on your user page to make sure it works before trying to use it on any other pages.

#

If you do and it doesn't work, you can always slap {{delete}} on the page and use the page TALK to explain that it doesn't work and it's a-ok to delete it.

grim crane
#

Got it. No huge rush. I wanted to experiment with timelines and some other features that I like. But I'll keep them local to my page and futz around with them. If I get 'em to work I'll write a note.

unborn cargo
#

Heads up - I added the bard service to the 1006 page, and it's not pretty. I'll circle back when I have time Tuesday or after, but figured having the info was more important than having it look pretty for now. I know it's not done, and anyone is welcome to help with formatting if it bothers you too much to wait until later in the week 😆

grim crane
#

I updated the following image page today:
https://gswiki.play.net/File:Arlise_portrait.png

Ultimately, I'd like to delete the original image and replace it with the new one. I however do not see a method for doing some. I presume this is because deletion is not available to users. Should I {{delete}} tag the original file? I'm actually not sure how to distinguish between the two in the summary/notes. Suggestions appreciated!

plush totem
#

Yes, you can use {{delete}} and comment on the talk page that you only want to delete the original file.

grim crane
bright hedge
plush totem
#

Just a quick note here: I've updated the Template:Material to include an input for AvD. Like other optional inputs, it will only show in cases where something is actually entered.

grim crane
#

I'd like to try to import a wiki template to test on my user page but I'm a little confused about where to map these. Direct to my user page, or should I create a new page to map it to?

plush totem
#

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "map it"

#

Could you clarify?

grim crane
#

hmm. the template is usually a page that you then call to other pages as a clone to embed a particular function. If I want to try to add a preformed wiki template into our wiki is there a specific location it should go into (templates/x) or somethin?

plush totem
grim crane
#

got it! yes. ty

just wanted to make sure I didnt bork placement in ours.

plush totem
#

For the most part, the namespaces are the same across wikis. One of my (current) projects is to standardize help pages vs. style guide pages. Help pages are pages that cover a spectrum of topics of things across wikis, such as how to make a table, how to make a template, how to transclude, etc. Style guide pages, however, are specific to their own wikis. Leading up until a few months ago, style guide pages were held under the Help: namespace, but I recently moved them to be under Gswiki: namespace as that is specific to our wiki.

#

I hope with these updates/transitions, I will be able to get more (and clearer) help pages onto our wiki.

grim crane
#

that'll be awesome!

pallid pine
#

Hey ZHOUY1 - You out there? I'd like to talk about doing the original blurb or whatever you were trying to add to spells in a way that doesn't change the base "template"

plush totem
#

Hey, y'all. Just a quick note/reminder here:

If you wish for the contents of a page to be removed or deleted (specifically, a character page), please do not just clear the contents of the page. That's called blanking, and all it does is remove the contents of the page, not the actual page or the history of its contents (meaning, it can easily be undone and/or rolled back). If you wish for your character page to be removed from the wiki, instead, you may clear the contents, but be sure to add the {{delete}} template to the page so it lets the moderator know that the page is requesting deletion. Blanking the page does not communicate this intention to the moderator and will require them to communicate with you anyway regarding the intent.

Thank you!

vague island
#

All, not sure what information is required, but I think the warrior Weapon Bonding page requires updating. The page states that the bonding flares are suppressed during things like MSTRIKE, but it appears that at least one flare (Effect 5, the extra attack), can happen during MSTRIKES (or at least while beserking). I am not sure about the other flare or with the other suppression effects.

plush totem
oak hemlock
#

(Moving here because the convo was off-topic, going to link here for follow up)

I'm wanting to update the page for Charge Item (517) with details about Empowered Rechargeable magic items since so many (including myself) have misunderstood this, and there currently seems to be no info on the wiki explaining them.

I wanted to word it in such a way that the colloquial, "Mage Empowered" would show up on a wiki search. Before I make this update can someone who is actually a wizard who used empowered rechargeables confirm this is worded properly (or suggest changes) so I don't flub it up, please?

Current Verbiage:
The maximum number of charges any item can hold is forty (40).

Suggested Update:
The maximum number of charges any non-empowered item can hold is forty (40). Items that are empowered (often referred to as Mage Empowered) can hold a number of charges up to the empowered value of the item.

chrome ingot
#

often referred to as …
officially referred to as Mage Empower(ed/ables)

The big difference for MEs is that they can hold more than 40 charges at a time, the potential lifetime max number of charges is not a mystery, and the spell list is ostensibly less restrictive

IMG_3217.png
loud hemlock
#

I've voiced this with Wyrom, but moving a category by a mod removes all the edits/work contributed in a category. It saps a lot of enthuisiasm when that modicum of credit is deleted.

#

Essentially it all becomes MOD-GS and deletes the 1000s of edits

plush totem
#

In most cases, a category move retains the history of the move. It's only in special circumstances that the history would be lost, primarily when there is a merging of categories and deletion of extraneous ones. I don't see any recent category moves. Can you explain where the issue you're seeing is?

loud hemlock
plush totem
#

The history was retained on the redirect page that was left. As noted, this was due to a consolidation of pages. Since the category was already set up, unless the category was deleted, there was no way to move the page history as well.

#

Additionally, this shift was done almost a year ago as part of the storyline guidelines update to ensure consistency with these pages.

loud hemlock
#

I am aware. I talked to Wyrom in August. I'm just pointing it out. You can message me if you'd like for clarity

plush totem
#

I don't speak with players through DMs as this can easily be discussed here. The link I provided shows the maintained history of the page prior to the consolidation, so there was no removal or deletion of this information. If you click the link, you can see it there.

loud hemlock
#

Might be my knowledge of Wiki then, but I don't see acreditation on my adds after the update.

plush totem
#

I'm not going to out account names here, but you can compare past page history by clicking on the circles besides the edits. Additionally, if the concern is the attribution of what was added when and is missing because of the page consolidation on the history, you are welcome to add that information in the TALK page of the category page for the storyline.

loud hemlock
#

I've shared my concern.

plush totem
#

And I've offered you a solution

loud hemlock
#

Aydan wrote much of the original content, but every log was from me. I am not sure we're on the same page

plush totem
#

You are welcome to add that information to the TALK page, as I noted, if you're concerned about attribution of contributions to the article. The page history is there for your use to do so.

loud hemlock
plush totem
#

Okay? We do not track individual contributions to the wiki, unless it is a style guide or policy violation issue, as it is a team effort. As you can clearly see your own contributions, you're welcome to notate that on the TALK page of the category page for the storyline.

fallen venture
#

As Xeraphina mentioned, the wiki is meant to be a team effort between everyone, so usually individual contributions to public pages are not tracked. I think the solution of adding your efforts/contributions to the TALK page of the category page for the storyline is excellent if you would like to add that information.

We definitely appreciate all of your contributions and everyone else's to this very important tool! You can see where you've made edits when you view history as well.

grim crane
#

Would it also be appropriate to add a signature to specific entry blocks if they are logs/files etc? like at the end putting

"Contributed by ~~~~"

plush totem
#

On the TALK page, yes. Signatures are not appropriate for main article pages

plush totem
#

@loud hemlock I am tagging you specifically here so you can see what is being done:

I reverted the redirect that was set up by Motte last year to show what the last history for the page was. This page has also been moved to a subpage for the Ride of the Red Dreamer (storyline) redirect page which can be found here: https://gswiki.play.net/Ride_of_the_Red_Dreamer_(storyline)/saved_posts . That being said, Motte did exactly what was expected of her in her role in ensuring that the information followed the format as outlined in the Style Guide: https://gswiki.play.net/Gswiki:Style_guide/Storyline_guidelines . As it stands, the saved post page does not actually follow the format of saved posts and may still need to be reviewed by our moderators to ensure it follows an expected format, or is moved to a summary page in its current setup. We entrust our moderators to make the best decisions for both format and content based on both policy and guidelines.

plush totem
#

I am going to make this general announcement to all wiki contributors:

We welcome all the contributions to the wiki as it continues to grow, and the following statement is not meant to discourage contributions in any way, shape, or form.

Getting the information onto the wiki is the most important part of contributing to it, and does not need to conform to the style guide when initially added. That's what our moderators are for, as they work diligently to ensure policy and style guide are followed.

When someone contributes to the wiki, they agree to abide by GSWiki policy. With the exception of the page types that are specifically outlined in the policy, all pages are subject to edits by other players, and to content and format moderation by our moderators. The wiki is a collaborative effort for all contributors, and unless edits specifically violate policy, or in some cases the style guide, individual contributions are not tracked by the wiki team.

If a person is concerned about their own contributions being properly attributed to them or contributions being attributed to others, there are ways to specifically track what is added, including the article's page history, and utilizing the article's TALK page or their USER page. They can also see their own contributions by checking Special:Contributions/(username).

As pages are converted by our moderators to formats that follow the style guidelines for that type of article, it should be expected that the necessary edits to these pages will occur to ensure they conform. This is to ensure consistency across the board. Our moderators work very hard at their jobs and many of the guidelines that are being released are to make their jobs easier.

Regarding pages with limited moderation (ex. creative works or character vignettes): #1061330227843833926 message

Thank you! The wiki team appreciates everyone's hard work!

plush totem
reef flame
# plush totem I am going to make this general announcement to all wiki contributors: We welco...

As someone who often contributes to the wiki whenever I run across something I can add...but has very little technical knowledge of the style guide or the code used to do so...I really appreciate that there are people who come along and clean up after me! Hopefully one day I'll have time to learn more about all of that so I can do more than just add text and copy/paste code to achieve something reasonable in the meantime!

hard owl
#

I....am so confused, but welcome if people want to help adjust formats and the like. I've seen it happen already.

So...keep on with the keep on, I guess?

plush totem
hard owl
#

I read it, still don't get it. But I'll abide by the general statement. Thanks for the heads up.

plush totem
#

To clarify further, there are a lot of articles that do not get heavy moderation by the wiki team. An example would be creative works/ vignettes. These are pages that, while they have simple guidelines to follow, such as page naming convention, or banners, they are not monitored beyond ensuring that they have the banner or are set up on the correct page. Typos/ page edits beyond that falls on the original contributor(s). If there is a specific policy violation, such as vulgarity, on these pages, they will be handled, though.

#

Does this make more sense? I'm not sure how to clarify further as you've only stated you don't get it.

hard owl
#

That's much more detailed. Thanks. I still get worried I'm breaking rules when I post, but that helps.

plush totem
#

You're welcome!

#

I will update my original statement to include that so as to help alleviate confusion by other parties I'll link that part in there. The original statement has too many characters already. I'm not nitro, so discord hates when I get overly verbose.

frozen agate
plush totem
pallid pine
#

That was very generous of you to revert pages against policy. Also, shout out to Motte for keeping the wiki clean and consistent.

plush totem
#

The page in question wasn't against policy. It was a series of summaries/ saved posts that had been merged into the storyline category page and was changed to a redirect. The reversion was simply to move it to a subpage to the storyline redirect page and will be reviewed further for content and format.

rain marten
#

you know, I'd always been a little curious--I'd often had information to add, but I don't know anything about formatting. It's at least good to know that as long as I'm Doing My Best people will fix it up so it looks right

reef flame
#

It's actually a lot easier with the new wiki version - the new basic editor just lets you change text right on the page without having to look at all the code (which is still available if you want it).

oak hemlock
#

I'm a huge fan of sub pages. It makes it easy to know what information is intended to be grouped together rather than just stumbling upon an orphaned page and then having to either deduce what it's relevant to, or do another search to find related information.

thorn breach
#

Wikis survive on the good grace of their users....and the ability to rewind any screw ups.

oak hemlock
#

• I created a category page on the Wiki for "Firewalker Tribe player characters" which is a page that lists Giantman player characters of the Firewalker Tribe of Maeramil Wind Runner Clan.

• I have also added the category for "Cold River player characters" to Myharl's player character wiki page, but have not yet created the category page. **For this, I wanted to confirm that it's okay to create a category page for a town that doesn't offer citizenship. **

• I'm thinking that creating categories for CHE and MHO player characters who are member would be useful. Anyone else think this is something we should do? If so, what category name format would work best? Just for example, I have not created the category pages for these, but I have tagged Myharl's player character wiki page with "House of the Rising Phoenix CHE member" and "Fenog's Regulars MHO member" categories.

I don't want to be overly convoluted, but it seems like optional categories for adding player character wiki pages to list public members of a CHE or MHO would be useful. After creating my first category page for "Firewalker Tribe", I'm just sort of looking for some direction on whether this is a useful way to organize information. Thanks!

plush totem
# oak hemlock • I created a category page on the Wiki for "*Firewalker Tribe player characters...

Please hold off on creating a category for CHE/MHO memberships as that is something that if wanted should be handled by the leadership of those organizations if they decide they want to do that. Not all organizations will want to.

Also, my advice is to please be mindful when creating categories as they are meant to host a grouping of article pages. If only a single article is hosted in that category, it may not be advised to have it as a category.

rain marten
grim crane
#

Anytime I read and see an error I just edit it now. it's very easy.

oak hemlock
#

There's a question for the wiki team about discussion on the talk page for flares. Some overhaul to the page has been suggested that might be helpful to organization, but since that's a page that effects most of the player base some feedback would be great!
https://gswiki.play.net/Category_talk:Flares

plush totem
plush totem
#

Dropping a line here: I'm currently in the process of testing some potential updates to the creative-work template that people have been using. Updates would include allowances for character vignettes and player-run storylines. These two will still have their requirements that have been outlined in Storyline guidelines. Adding them to the template will make them somewhat easier to search using semantic properties. Additionally, I'm updating the template to require a date for when published. The main reason here is this page: https://gswiki.play.net/List_of_creative_works. This page actually populates a list of creative works based on the semantic search, however it currently sorts them based on ascending alphabetization, which doesn't really work well if people want to see the most recent thing posted. WIth these updates, I'll also be creating a form that players can use to easily publish their creative-works to the wiki as opposed to c/p the code and manually entering things. PLayers can still do that, but for the ease of use, the form would work best.

plush totem
#

For now, please do not make any updates or changes to pages to include the dates. The template may need to be adjusted date-wise as I'm working through the form creation. I also need to make sure that the list is syncing up properly. Changes that are made to pages prior to this are at risk of being broken when listed. I will announce when everything is live, however somethings cannot be fully tested without ensuring things are syncing properly.

oak hemlock
#

Opps. I'm sorry! Should I go back an un-edit the date out of mine?

plush totem
#

You can just undo the edits. I'll announce when everything is live.

plush totem
#

As a further heads up:

Initial testing has been completed and has been successful, HOWEVER I have rolled back the template for now as I am working through some additional parameters to update within the template that would need to be part of form creation.

plush totem
#

Okay! So, I've gone ahead and pushed out the updates to the creative-work template, created the form that can be used to add creative works to the wiki to make it somewhat easier for players to do so, as well as updated how the list is displayed. FOR NOW, the list remains in alphabetical order. That is on purpose. Setting it up to sort by descending date by default complicates things until dates are actually put into the template that this pulls from. Additionally, there are a bunch of older creative works not using this template that we're going to look at updating to the new one.

You can find the form for easy creative works publication here: https://gswiki.play.net/Form:Creative_work

plush totem
#

@oak hemlock since you were so eager earlier, I'm specifically tagging you.

oak hemlock
#

Thank you! I actually have some short stories I haven't put up yet, so I'll try using the form for those as well.

plush totem
#

This is part of an overall style guide review and update (not much is changing on it, just better/further explanation of some points, and a better determination of certain aspects that are a bit all over the place since these pages aren't really moderated too heavily.

plush totem
#

Some (very minor) tweaks were made to certain backend things (properties). You don't need to do anything about this as if you've done any updates on the template in your creative works page, I'm about to start going through the lot of them to get them handled.

#

I'm hoping to have the style guidelines for creative works released this week... Again, not anything super world-shattering. Just updates to what would be required in the template (to coincide with how the categories/list handles things). If there is a chance that a page move may be needed due to article title issues (unlikely), myself or the moderator will reach out the applicable parties via TALK pages to discuss.

shell bough
#

question! is it appropriate to apply category tags to our creative works that reflect the content? ie if we wrote something about food, can we apply the cuisine tag?

plush totem
#

You may, as long as it is appropriately set up with the creative-work template. I don't see why not.

#

Despite being a simple update to the template, it wasn't a simple update overall (but simpler than my next thing that I'm already starting to sift through). Would it be helpful to add an additional entry to the template that allows the option for topic that could easily classify it? Not to say that it WOULD happen, but it's worth asking.

oak hemlock
#

@ Xeraphina You have been a beast with getting all the creative works updated to the new template. That was an impressive amount of work!

plush totem
#

I'm basically done with my part in it because that was an overall... overview of it, primarily for the whole... list page that things populate. There is more to come, but that's once the guidelines are hammered out, and mostly because there may be aforementioned page moves that need to be done. But thank you!

shell bough
plush totem
# shell bough I'm not a wiki expert but if that would be a separate classification system outs...

Kind of but yes/ no. It would just allow for the option of the say "topic" that would autopopulate the category for you if there's an entry there so you don't have to do it separately, but the list that's in place (linked in earlier discussion) was in place based off the template anyway. I just tweaked it to sort by publish date (new parameter) and show type (already in place). The topic would just be a new column in that.

#

The aforementioned list is populated automatically based on properties that are automatically filled in when the template is filled out, so not even anything extra to remember to do. It's a backend thing.

#

Like.... say I wanted to have a list of shops in each town. I could go through the trouble of making and formatting a list myself OR... I use the properties and the list makes itself. Make sense?

shell bough
#

I'm sure it will when I look at the wiki lol. thank you!

plush totem
#

I'm not 100% that I'd do it there, but it's a thought I had.

shell bough
#

Ahh, OK i see what you mean

#

Yeah if typing an optional field in the template thingity is basically equivalent to adding the [[Category:xxxx]] then that would be neat

#

also echoing what myharl said above: your work on the template updates has been heroic thus far

rigid pike
#

HEROIC

plush totem
shell bough
#

👀 i admit i have no idea where to find or how to use this form

plush totem
#

Basically, no need to actually mess with copying and pasting the template code

shell bough
#

Hmmmm this form seems like it will mean i should make less complicated page names 😂

plush totem
#

Nah

#

The form can also be used to edit pages that already exist

oak hemlock
#

@ Xeraphina I not only saw it, but I linked it at the bottom of Myharl's wiki page as a reference. 😄

rigid pike
#

I used the verb form the other day for my new verb

plush totem
#

Since discovering them, thanks to Tivvy, it's been a whole new world, and if it makes (some) things easier for people to contribute to the wiki with, then I am all for it.

plush totem
#

Just as an aside for anyone that doesn't stalk recent changes. two things:

  1. I'm going to be rolling out the updated guidelines to creative works this afternoon. Again, nothing super world shattering or anything. It's fairly simple and accounts for certain other things that weren't accounted for, such as vignettes (not a requirement since these should be subpages to character pages, but if used, use correctly), and player-run storylines (these already have guidelines in place, but since they are essentially player-created, they should be accounted for under this banner).

  2. I'm currently and actively working on an overhaul of how the town shops are being handled, template and page-wise. There is a lot of testing and whatnot involved in my setting up of a template. My goal is to make the template do a significant amount of heavy lifting for players when they create or edit the shop pages. BECAUSE this is a longer process, I want to encourage contributors to continue to do the needful with getting shops on the wiki. Once testing is complete and things are ready to go live, the new template will replace the old template entirely and will have a form in place.

grim crane
plush totem
#

That is a choice left up to you. There are a few reasons why the guidelines are set up for subpages, though:

  1. Before the guidelines were released, some players had been given direction to set them up as subpages to storylines, which shouldn't be the case. They should always be attached to the character for whom they are referring.
  2. Subpages, in this case, create a clean link if you're wanting to link the page to the storyline category page. Additionally, while not necessary, if you're intending to add a category, or the creative-works template, allows the focus to be on that page only>
  3. While we don't heavily moderate character pages or subpages for length, if vignettes are all bunched onto one page, it can create a very large page in general.
grim crane
plush totem
normal dagger
#

apprently i forgot to include required information in my character image file, but the instructions given aren't very clear.

is there a template for the fields for note image creators, what AI imaging software was used (if any), and if permission was granted by the creator to upload the image to the wiki.

I used a browser based free text to ai software, so I am the creator? I need the name of the website? am I easily confused?

plush totem
normal dagger
#

Many thanks. I will get that corrected today after work

normal dagger
loud tree
#

Hello errbuddy. I stumbled across what I think are my old merchant listings. I have... a lot. I'd imagine this might be of interest getting put on the wiki or someplace where it can be preserved. Is there a template, or a place where I can put them? It'll be a long term project, obviously, if I'm able to do it.

plush totem
plush totem
loud tree
plush totem
#

Like I said, the most important thing is getting it on the wiki. The format can be handled at a later time if it's too much. The guidelines are based on how the shops are handled these days as a tool is run to pull the information.

spark relic
#

you can put it on your character page

floral tangle
#

I personally believe my 4x Two-handed sword with impact flares belongs on there.

spark relic
#

I think the legendary weapons page is basically just a self-promotion vanity thing for anyone who wants to add whatever they want to it, to be honest, so, sure. go for it.

floral tangle
#

I already feel enough shame that I had to make a greatsword section...Further proving how undesirable and terrible this base is.

plush totem
#

Status Update: Thanks to @rigid pike for her efforts in helping me test out a new template/form that will be replacing the current NPC shops on the wiki.

This template was created to specifically work in conjunction with a wiki form to make it easier for players who may be code/template shy to contribute. There are some additional tweaks that need to be completed, but initial testing has been a resounding success.

There are several goals meant to come out of this update which include:

  1. Easy categorization of shops by both realm and location (location meaning settlements outside of town, ie. the Ravelin is outside of Ta'Vaalor, but still considered in the realm of Ta'Vaalor.)
  2. Create a database query that will automatically populate for the towns in lieu of manually having to update a list for each town.
  3. Make it easy to see at a glance in the aforementioned database query what shop sells what type of wares.
  4. Set a standard for how specialty shops are handled vs. regular wares. By definition, specialty shops will be considered shops that sell a category of items that have a total of 4 or less shops in the lands. Example: Florists would be considered a specialty shop for flowers as only 2-3 currently exist. This can be updated at anytime by updating the parameters for wares.
  5. For those shops that sell more than one type of wares, there is an easier option to get it to recognize two "wares." Example: There is a shop that sells coffee and tobacco which would be considered two separate ware categories.
  6. This will end up being a full overhaul of the shops, so consider this a massive work in progress while these are in transition.

Additionally, "NPC shops" is a bit of a misnomer as any shop that sells items could be considered an NPC shop. Part of this update will be shifting to the "Town shops," as that is more accurate to what these shops are.

#

Guidelines will be forthcoming, but like creative works, this is nothing that's going to be earth shattering compared to how the shops are already handled. The guidelines will essentially be a "how to" with the form/template, explanation, etc.

pallid pine
#

Can you include price of items in this template.

plush totem
#

The template won't be able to handle that aspect, however there will be instructions on how to do so.

#

As it requires table work

unborn quartz
plush totem
unborn quartz
#

aha! When I went looking for it, all I found was the link to play.net

dapper nova
#

I have a wiki image copyright issue that I thought I resolved but got another message about. Would appreciate some help on figuring out what exactly is left for me to do. Should I link the page here?

oak hemlock
tawdry silo
#

im trying to update the spider page and it says "double click to edit cell" but double click does nothing obvious and trying to copy and paste puts the entry under the cells

plush totem
plush totem
# plush totem Status Update: Thanks to <@312977191933575168> for her efforts in helping me tes...

As an update to this, we're at about 97% completion with the template, and 95% completion with the guidelines, but this almost at the point of "grand go live" (sort of like soft opening/grand opening).

Similar to the NPC shops template, the town shops template & form cover ONLY shops that use the ORDER system (in some form) or from where you buy items from a table (like the dye shops which were not set up as individual shops before, NOT pawn/consignment shops). This update will not cover other shops as those will likely be handled via another overhaul/update. Since I'd rather focus on one major overhaul at a time, the town shops will be handled first.

Additionally, I've completed that aspect in both Cysaegir and Ta'Vaalor. Ta'Vaalor is actually the example I'm going to point to to give people an idea of what the end goal will be.

The Ta'Vaalor shops category (https://gswiki.play.net/Category:Ta'Vaalor_shops) will cover all the shops that can be found in that realm. Since Mistwatch, Ravelin, and the Burghal Enclave can all be found in the realm (https://gswiki.play.net/Realm) of Ta'Vaalor, any shop marked with that realm is found in that category. The individual town (or area) pages, however, will have a list that shows the shops just located in that immediate area, ex. https://gswiki.play.net/Ta'Vaalor#Shops or https://gswiki.play.net/Ravelin#Shops. These lists autopopulate when the Town shops template or form are use on new or updated shops.

loud hemlock
plush totem
loud hemlock
#

That's feedback?

#

Pretty savvy, but that's new if you can explain further.

rigid pike
#

You can access the email for feedback via the EMAIL command in game if you feel the wiki team is inappropriate for your request, but you made it in the wiki forum

loud hemlock
#

The answer still isn't very clear. I wanted to see if the GSWiki could highlight media. Emailing feedback seems laborous

rigid pike
#

I think your remark was unclear

#

Xeraphina is very good at not speaking out of turn or putting words in other people's mouths. If you send your message where she asked she can make sure it's escalated appropriately

#

I am not good at that and are not sure what you mean by YouTuber resources

loud hemlock
#

Marketing for the game is largely word of mouth and by players. We have players contributing 1000s of hours on Youtube. I just wanted to highlight players via the official Wiki with a template or approved focus area that was not available in my searches.

plush totem
#

Your question is not something I can answer from am official standpoint without discussion with the wiki team in full. The email address I provided is sent to those involved with the wiki, not just me. I'm not an island when it comes to these things.

loud hemlock
#

I'd like to continue this idea. I've send the feedback accordingly. Thank you

marble parrot
#

So, how would I go about editing the wiki as it stands?
I tried going in to edit one page to add a missing verb thinking i could piece it out from the currently in place tags...
But I was just presented with a document with none of the raw text from the page i was looking at and so i just backed out without changing anything.

#

aha, i had clicked on the edit source link by one of the headers instead of the tab at the top

plush totem
marble parrot
#

hmmm I still seem to be having difficulty...

#

using Opera, if that matters

plush totem
#

Depending on the page type you are attempting to edit, you may want/ need to click edit source at the top of the page as opposed to at the headers. Some pages are templated and attempting to edit individual sections when templated takes you to the template edit page, not the page you are attempting to edit.

#

I don't know what opera is, but your browser doesn't generally matter

marble parrot
#

i was trying to add the verbs for the smooth smith's apron, but i cant seem to edit the text cause there is a table on a layer above it blocking me

plush totem
#

Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with the issue you are experiencing.

marble parrot
#

maybe you can recreate it

plush totem
#

Without even knowing what page you are having an issue on, it's not something I can recreate.

#

Smith smiths apron? Was that it?

marble parrot
plush totem
#

Are you using EDIT or EDIT SOURCE

marble parrot
#

just the normal edit

oak hemlock
plush totem
#

Attempting to edit a templated page using the visual editor (edit button) is going to cause you confusion and issues. You want to use the edit source button.

#

I never recommend using the visual editor on tables or templates.

marble parrot
#

That only gives me access to the legend on the right hand side, not the actual tables of tiers and verbs

plush totem
#

If you edit source, this is what you should be seeing

Screenshot_20240507_092200_Chrome.jpg
spark relic
#

did you click on "edit source" for the entire page or just the section? with that type of page you have to do it for the full page

plush totem
#

If you can see the source code, you should be able to ctrl+f to hone in on raise

marble parrot
#

oh, okay, I see it now, and i just paste my output there? no i need special characters for line breaks?

plush totem
#

If you need to line break within a specific cell, you need to use <br> or double enter. But generally no. If you replace the {{addmetext}} with what you're adding, you should be fine.

marble parrot
#

its a 4 line output, after removeing the blank lines is why io asked

plush totem
#

Then you should be fine with either of the ways I suggested.

marble parrot
#

and to keep the literaral asterisks in the string? it turned to bullets in the preview

oak hemlock
#

As a side note, while working out how to update the wiki, you can "Show preview" (button at the bottom) to preview your changes and make sure they look how you want them to before clicking on the "Save changes" button and applying those changes to the actual wiki. Sometimes if I'm not entirely sure, I'll test out how I think it should work, and do a preview to confirm before saving.

marble parrot
#

precisely what led to my last unanswered question

oak hemlock
plush totem
#

You could also use <nowiki>*</nowiki> to keep it an asterisk.

marble parrot
#

thanks got some of those changes in

plush totem
#

Hey, y'all. I just wanted to let you all know that we've released a minor update to policy and the style guidelines in regards to how character (and user account) pages will be handled in the event of a players death. You can see these changes here:

  1. https://gswiki.play.net/Gswiki:Policy#General
  2. https://gswiki.play.net/Gswiki:Style_guide/Character_pages#Player_Deaths
  3. https://gswiki.play.net/Template:In_memoriam

In essence, once a player has passed away, we will be locking their pages in order to preserve the character in the player's voice. A memorial subpage can be established for the character/player which will allow other contributors to freely (within policy) add to in order to honor the character and player.

#

I also want to thank our moderator for their contribution to this.

plush totem
#

We are now live with the updates to town shops handling on the wiki.

  1. A form has been created to make it easier to add or update an article for town shops: https://gswiki.play.net/Form:Town_shop
  2. Guidelines have been formalized and are set up in a way to allow flexibility in how these pages are handled. Additionally, this allows shops to be categorized by realm and location, ie. Ravelin would show as in realm Ta'Vaalor, but have its own location. These guidelines aren't too far off from what was already managed by the former template, but they do allow for a more modular approach. https://gswiki.play.net/Gswiki:Style_guide/Town_shops
  3. A new template has been made to help with this transition and when used will automatically add shops within certain parameters to lists that populate. https://gswiki.play.net/Template:Town_shops Additional/supplemental templates have been created, as well, and can be viewed in the link in #2.
  4. For examples on how the autopopulating tables look, you can view that here: https://gswiki.play.net/Category:Ta'Vaalor_shops. The category will house all shops found within that realm, as an example, where the city of Ta'Vaalor will only have a list of shops found within the city proper... shops found in the ravelin, mistwatch, etc, would be on their own pages (based on location).
  5. The backroom page on the wiki has been updated with autopopulating lists as well, but it's currently a WIP as shops get converted to the new template.
minor stone
oak hemlock
#

I'm just curious if there is a way to include an audio file with a "play" button on the wiki? I created a theme song for Myharl, and currently have options to hear it on YouTube or the MP3 on Google, but thought it would be neat if there is an option to just plug an optional player right there on the character wiki page.
https://gswiki.play.net/Myharl_(prime)

plush totem
floral tangle
#

Added a claidh into legendary claidhs. In case anyone wants to review for edits needed. Think I did it right.

pallid pine
#

Can someone take away FIREPHOENIX access to the wiki to delete the contributions of other players?

outer pivot
#

Wasn't there something about player creative works soon needing to be under the character sub page? That might help clear up confusion between subjective player creative writing and player written lore created for informational purposes.

plush totem
# outer pivot Wasn't there something about player creative works soon needing to be under the ...

Guidelines were updated on March of this year in regards to creative works that does not require them to be subpages, however if they are not subpages, they need to be clearly marked using the creative works template at the top. #1061330227843833926 message

You can review the updated guidelines here: https://gswiki.play.net/Gswiki:Style_guide/Creative_works

The only creative work that should, without a doubt, be set up as a subpage to a character page (or user page) are vignettes. Additional creative works may be set up in that way and forego the template. Standalone articles/periodicals/etc require the template to ensure it is clear they do not fall in line with established lore and may be skewed on opinion/ facts.

outer pivot
thorn breach
#

To be 100% clear, I would go line by line down that document with anyone to discuss veracity if that is needed. As far as the one line Geijon referenced, it was an event that happened....I chose to use the official old forum information released at the time, word for word, to avoid this very conversation and link it.

#

Now after Geijon reached out in DM, I modified it to be more concise (though it could be argued less accurate) simply for the sake of trying to ease tensions.

#

But I don't think veracity is what is being called into question merely the fact that someone compiled things in a way other people don't like and they decided to go into a non-related event and start drama over it.

livid galleon
plush totem
#

That's a way further down on my list of priorities, so I wouldn't worry about it just yet.,

plush totem
#

Hey, guys, friendly quarterly(?) semi-annual (?) reminder: Please do not blank pages. The page will still exist, as will the page history. If you want to remove a page, please use the {{delete}} template and explain the reason why you are requesting page deletion on the page's TALK page. Thank you.

plush totem
#

So a quick update regarding the town shops transition:

Realms (since some towns/locations can be in a realm): Cysaegir, Ta'Vaalor, Ta'Illistim, Mist Harbor
I've updated the template to include parameters for the proprietor name, if any (this is the name that shows up in ORDER). If that name corresponds with an NPC present in the room, there is a parameter to select that will automatically turn that name into a page link to the NPCs name. I'm going back through the shops that have already been completed to handle this.

Wandering carts are now set up on their own pages... including all the ones on Mist Harbor. The "Premium Merchants" page has been moved to "Mist Harbor wandering carts" as that better denotes what they are. The Mist Harbor cobbling cart page has been converted into a subpage to the cobbling page. I've additionally moved all the individual cobbling material shop pages by realm to subpages to cobbling, similar to Mist Harbor. The article was getting incredibly cumbersome with all of those on that page in that way. That have been properly linked, as well.

Any shop that already had old shop or just old inventory tables has had the table format updated to current standards. These tables are optional, but I didn't want to just delete them since I know some players like to have that information readily available. If the shop is a shop that you can ORDER in, the table is collapsed by default. There is a collapse all toggle at the top of the page to uncollapse. Something to keep in mind... if you decide to create or update a page using the form AND do the collapsible tables, you will need to double edit, as the form doesn't like anything that is put at the top of what the form contents would be.

sharp zealot
plush totem
tough orbit
#

Hi, my name is Missandai and I recently started a Wiki page for my character. Apparently, there is some misunderstanding about me editing the Wiki page and having a fellow player, Falvicar, help me do so. What exactly should I put on the Discussion tab to prevent the Wiki page from getting deleted?

plush totem
tough orbit
plush totem
#

You're welcome!

foggy grove
#

silly question since I'm curious? Is the ~~~~ supposed to "magically change" if you follow me? Like turn into "signed by person" or just does it just stay as ~~~~?

Just curious how it works.

edit: whoops! accidently did a strike through heh

spark relic
#

It magically adds a signature and day/time stamp, which is kinda neat.

foggy grove
#

idk. how to describe what i'm asking for. like, in Missi's situation.. was it supposed see a visible change?

spark relic
#

The ~~~~ turns into the actual signature, you don't have to add anything else after it. So for this situation, it sounds like she's being asked to do something like write:
I give Falivcar's player permission to edit my character page. ~~~~on that Discussion tab.

And that'd show up as:
"I give Falvicar's player permission to edit my character page. {Missandai's account, day/time stamp}"

foggy grove
#

weird... now i'm wondering if it worked

spark relic
#

Hmm, she needs to remove the <nowiki> and </nowiki> parts, that's causing the ~~~~ to display as characters instead of being code.

foggy grove
#

like i'm reading the discussion page and it still show the squiggly lines

#

sorry, not trying to be a pain. just trying to help. thank you Shan, btw

spark relic
#

Sure thing! Some of the stuff is pretty weird. The nowiki thing tells the wiki to ignore what code means, so that's probably why it threw off the signature part.

tough orbit
#

I saw this and I removed the <nowiki> and </nowiki> and it shows up as my signature now. Thank you!

plush totem
#

The ~~~~ signs your user name, date, and time and is standard for talk/discussion pages. You can see the code at work when you preview the page. Once the page is saved, that code disappears leaving just your signature

fallen venture
#

When you save it, it'll show as the user name

#

Looks like this:

image.png
#

that user name + datestamp is what happens with a ~~~~

tough orbit
#

Thank you for clarifying it! I fixed it on my wiki page and it shows correctly!

fallen venture
#

woo! The first time I heard about it, I was like wait, what? Why do they want us to put a bunch of these? Then I did it, and I was like "oooh magic"

#

Prep wiki101, cast self

thorn breach
#

Y'all deleted a map for copyright reasons when the maker of the map gave me permission on this wiki to upload it and ask that I did. So are you saying that if I make a map I can't then ask somebody else to upload it to the wiki

#

@fickle ermine it appears that I cannot upload your map of anything, so if you would like one of your maps to be on the wiki, you'll have to do it yourself in particular, the Krolvin Island.

plush totem
#

This is correct. Maps have their own policy guidelines on the wiki separate from artwork and very rarely do maps get treated as artwork. Exceptions are made if the map has been updated, but there are specific rules in place for that, as well. You can see the policy for maps here: https://gswiki.play.net/Gswiki:Policy#Maps

thorn breach
#

The policy is stupid but ok I uploaded a lower quality map that was 100% made by me. We have now made players experience worse.

plush totem
thorn breach
#

I just gave my feedback here I am not going to send an email as well.

#

I assume you will delete or want someone else to delete all the Tsoran maps and other maps uploaded by others as well?

image.png
plush totem
#

Items that do not fall within policy will be handled, however items that predate policy updates may be handled on a case by case basis.

thorn breach
#

I can give you a list give me 10 minutes

plush totem
#

That is unnecessary.

thorn breach
#

I see

#

Perhaps your realizing that the majority of the maps on the wiki are outside your policy.

plush totem
#

No, I'm responding from my phone. Things that happened in the past do not have bearing on policy of today. Things may get reviewed as we get to them, but they may also be considered grandfathered in. That does not change what policy is today.

thorn breach
#

I apologize but I am having trouble reconciling your statement with the overall policy goal of protecting copywrite information, which is the category used to delete the original image in question, copywrite protection...either for the maker or for some sort of nebulous legal concern that the GSwiki team thinks is being addressed by the "policy" has to extend to the entirety of the wiki to be doing any kind of damage control as it concerns copywrites. This isn't a "i can grandfather things in" situation if the purpose is copywrite protection. If the purpose is just to have a random policy to apply willy-nilly then do whatever you want.

plush totem
#

At this point in time, the policy is in place and things are being handled. A full review of every image would take some time and may be prioritized at a later date, however things are updated regularly on the wiki and are handled as they come in, Anything prior will have to wait for review and will need to be discussed amongst the wiki team. If you are upset with the decision because the file you uploaded was removed because of the policy violation, you are welcome to email gs4-wiki@play,net. At this time, further discussion in this thread seems meritless as the decision was made based on current policy and the most recent image/map being uploaded.

thorn breach
#

I am not using that email but thank you for providing it twice...

oak hemlock
#

Confirming for clarification, once a map is uploaded is that considered permission to utilize it on the wiki? While some folks might not be comfortable editing wiki pages, the upload form is relatively easy to use, and it would be fairly easy to write a 3-4 step process for adding them for others to use on the relevant wiki pages.

plush totem
#

This could additionally be handled by the map creator (if they uploaded the image) editing the image page to note that permission is granted for use on other pages. Editing that into the file page would work in the same way as editing it into a regular page, so it's not just a case of the upload form being easy. Page edits for that sort of thing work the same way as regular edits.

oak hemlock
#

That works, and it provides an easy way for cartographers to add maps without having to edit wiki pages. I'll write up a step by step and post here this afternoon. Luckily editing the image page with that info is actually part of the form as well as additing the appropriate tags.

#

**To upload maps so they can be used on the wiki: **

1. Browse to > https://gswiki.play.net/Special:Upload
   (Alternatively: click on the "Upload file" link under the "Tools" section in the wiki sidebar)
2. Click on the "Choose File" button and select the map image from your local source. (Maximum file size is 2 MB)
3. In the "Summary" text box input the details of what the map is and relevant copyright information including cartographer name or wiki username. 
4. In the "Summary" text box add the following text: The creator of this map gives permission for this map to be used by any user on any page of the gswiki.play.net wiki as long as use remains within wiki policy. ~~~~
5. In the "Summary" text box add the following text: [[Category:Maps]]
6. Click on the "Upload file" button to upload the map and add the information.```
I believe this will allow cartographers to upload their maps so that anyone can use them on any relevant wiki page. If changes need to be made, I can edit. Hope that helps. I know a lot of folks aren't comfortable with editing wiki pages, and maps are always useful.
plush totem
plush totem
fickle ermine
#

Uh, hey guys. Which map do I need to upload?
Edit: Glaoveln, got it

thorn breach
pallid pine
fickle ermine
#

Wait, like, on the actual graphic?

sharp zealot
#

no, on the wiki, you can timestamp something like "I hereby grant usage of my map elsewhere yada yada whatever"
And here comes Xeraphina with syntax.

fickle ermine
#

Okay, updated with a pretty thorough release

plush totem
fickle ermine
#

TY Xera. I understand Simu is in a precarious spot here trying to balance having a useful and robust wiki with the legal risk that comes from allowing anyone to upload things without prior constraint.

plush totem
#

You're welcome. Thank you for understanding.

rigid jasper
#

not sure if this is the best place to ask this, but it did stem from me trying to add stuff to the wiki: when adding a room their is a little field for a realroomnumber howerver only people using lich can see a realroomnumber. I'd like to have a command where someone who isn't using lich could be given a real room number - is that at all doable?

plush totem
# rigid jasper not sure if this is the best place to ask this, but it did stem from me trying t...

I'm not sure I understand the question. Real room IDs and lich IDs are only available to access via Lich. We made some accommodations for that aspect on the wiki, but otherwise, real room IDs are not something that is available to those who do not use Lich. If you're looking for a command to be used in game, which I'm not sure is feasible, asking in the wiki forum thread is not advised as that is a separate thing entirely at that point.

oak hemlock
# rigid jasper not sure if this is the best place to ask this, but it did stem from me trying t...

Mechanics might be the channel to ask this question. I think the difference between L# and U# is that L# is managed by third party database, and U# is managed on the game server side (it's why GM's utilize it). Back when it was a new thing, this question was asked and the reason given was that it can potentially lead to game "spoilers" that, while fine scripted, isn't something they want to have built into the game. You could always toss the suggestion into the mechanics channel though in case that perspective has changed. The wiki doesn't really have anything to do with that, it's just a place players/GMs input info to share.
https://discord.com/channels/226045346399256576/532373273816858636

rigid jasper
oak hemlock
rigid jasper
#

Oh for sure- I was just clarifying the question and explaining why I would be here to ask it.

plush totem
# rigid jasper The question was about adding Real Room Number data to the wiki and how one woul...

While I understand the intent, that is not something that thet wiki team can assist with as that is out of our purview, thus, as Myharl suggested, it would be advised to ask in mechanics.

That being said, the wiki is a collaborative effort. if someone is unable to fill every parameter, but can at least get SOME information up, ie. what they can access, then that is welcome. At some point, someone else can come in and add what is missing if they so choose. While what I do may be as complete as I can make it, that's because I am one of the co-managers and view the wiki as my baby. I do not hold any other contributors to the same level of standards that I hold myself when I'm putting things on there, and even then, I don't always meet my own standards. I would worry less about 100% completion when contributing.

rigid jasper
#

Ya I can understand how it's a collaborative effort and getting some info up is better than none.

oak hemlock
#

I think you bring up a good point, though. There is a lot of places with partial information added by users. I think I might shift some of my "wiki-time" to searching for entires that have one or the other on the room numbers, and trying to update them where I can. That's good info to have.

rigid jasper
#

Is there anyway to flag things for missing data? Sort of a way to emphasize which fields might be empty without checking out the source?

oak hemlock
plush totem
#

There's also a concerted effort to get things standardized to make things easier for people to contribute, as well. Like FORMS (I love forms) and AUTOPOPULATING LISTS (I love autopopulating lists)

rigid jasper
#

ya- I was noticing that when I was messing around with adding shops. It's pretty cool. Unfortunately I was noticing that while some lists were updated others weren't, though I'm not quite sure the mechanism as to how they are interlinked... would that be a property of a template?

plush totem
# rigid jasper ya- I was noticing that when I was messing around with adding shops. It's pretty...

The form, which the new town shops template is based from, autopopulates lists based on certain parameters, primarily realm, location (like sylvarraend to Ta'Illistim), wares, specialty, if it's an inn, eatery, or just a shop. Those parameters are what kicks into the autopopulating lists, and are "properties" of the page. So like Realm is a property, shop location is a property, wares is a property, specialty is a property.

It's great that it's the shops you want to work on, but that is very much so an overall work in progress right now. I've personally gone through Cysaegir, Ta'Vaalor, Ta'Illistim, and Mist Harbor, and I'm still tweaking the template and form for things. Not every shop is going to be in there yet, either, and that's because they're using the old NPC Shops template. Which is why I've been going town by town... and it takes... a while.

#

That's not to say to not continue doing what you're doing to ensure things are up to date, by all means. That's just me mentioning I'm still perfecting the baseline template. It's almost there. I'd say after my last update, I'm at 90% completion on it. It works and will work for anyone using it. I'm just picky and also want to make sure I have things covered where I can.

rigid jasper
#

sounds like a lot of work- I've been referencing the town shop style guide quite a bit and have been working off the source Vanah's entry on Bittersteel in the Glaeve. While I'm seeing my entries being added to https://gswiki.play.net/Category:Glaeve_shops. I'm not seeing the list update on https://gswiki.play.net/Glaeve. I understand it's all a work in progress, I just wasn't sure if it was something I was doing which was incorrect resulting in one list being populated while the other one wasn't.

plush totem
#

This forces a cache update.

#

The list always seems to update on time with a refresh on the category page, but tends to lag on other pages.

rigid jasper
#

ah ok- I won't worry too much about it. Thanks 🙂

plush totem
#

You're welcome!

rigid jasper
#

Oh is there a place on the wiki which has suggested/wanted wiki articles?

Or a section which is allotted to articles which need improving?

plush totem
rigid jasper
#

awesome 🙂

minor stone
#

Hi. So, um, I need to explain a mixup I accidentally caused...

https://gswiki.play.net/North_by_Northwest_(storyline)/2024-07-12_-_Vagrant_or_Vargath_(log)

I had originally given this the URL "Landing Events/2024-07-12 - Vagrant or Vargath (log)" because the North by Northwest storyline is over, but (to my knowledge) no new official storyline has begun.

That said, I accidentally left a North by Northwest category at the bottom of the page, which I think is what prompted the wiki team to rename the URL. I do apologize for the confusion, but the log isn't associated with North by Northwest at all.

I've deleted the category now, but I'm asking what the new URL should be. The style guide doesn't seem to indicate a standard practice (unless I'm just not seeing it) about what to do in the case where a log is about events between storylines.

(This log, likewise, shouldn't be named North by Northwest: https://gswiki.play.net/North_by_Northwest_(storyline)/2024-08-07_-_Blames,_Games,_and_Names_(log) I hadn't even caught until tonight that the July 12 log had been renamed when I wasn't looking, so copy/pasting/rewriting the URL still with North by Northwest in it when making this August 7 log was another error on my part.)

mystic elm
#

Is the wiki being down a known thing?

granite yarrow
#

Yes.

#

We are watching it ants-uh-lee... like if I refresh the page enough it will just start. Right? RIGHT?!

teal nacelle
#

The page for "Heavy Handed Sword' has some pretty big inconsistencies on it. It says it's for "two edged" sword, but katanas only have one edge. In another spot it says it's for claids and "twohanded swords", but lists it can go on broadswords, longswords, and backswords in the main area, which are all OHE. The messaging shown looks like it'll work with any of the ones listed unless there's plans for the future of the script for more messaging.... though the ones about resting the tip on the ground might be odd for the OHE ones

rigid pike
#

The page isn't where the inconsistencies are. I figured it was close enough and added those other weapons to the allowed list.

#

But it's a wiki, if it's wrong you can fix it, the page isn't locked.

teal nacelle
plush totem
#

@oak hemlock moving over here because this is now more wiki-centric. I'm actually going to ask you to hold off on this unless you intend to make it so that you're using properties so you're not manually creating this very large table. Otherwise, it will result in wasted effort.

oak hemlock
plush totem
#

Like the town shops, it makes it so that only one place needs to be updated manually, not multiple

obsidian hamlet
#

I added Thandiwe's new table of allowable slots for jewelry items to the Inventory page. Is that a good home for it? I was thinking it could then be linked from the Transmute DR page, etc., but I see it as more "core" information than just that -- it also applies to alters, treasure items, shop items, etc.

https://gswiki.play.net/Inventory#Items_allowed_per_slot

pallid pine
#

I hope you intend to update it with any changes, because duplicated articles tend to get outdated. We asked for more details regarding a specific service. And a page was created for that specific service. So it's not needed in inventory. And we already have a list of nouns, so adding all the various nouns isn't needed in inventory either.

plush totem
obsidian hamlet
#

I wasn't advocating for duplication. Just because the information was assembled for a service doesn't mean it also can't be used more broadly. Since this is general information related to the inventory, i.e. answering the non-service-specific question of "where can a character wear jewelry" -- something that might be useful for things like different future services, alterations, etc. -- I think it should go on the inventory page, and then the service page should be linked to that. I'm not understanding the rationale of having something like this on a service page, and linking the general page to that, rather than vice versa.

plush totem
# obsidian hamlet I wasn't advocating for duplication. Just because the information was assembled ...

So, I'm not actually seeing what you've done as it appears you've already removed it from the page. I do understand the intent, but as Alastir noted, there is a page in place that has an expansive list of player-curated nouns (mind you, there is a disclaimer at the top of the page that indicates that this may not be 100% accurate to what is allowed) based on worn location type. I actually think the breakdown for table headers you had originally used was fairly good in terms of clarifying metal jewelry vs cloth/leather, etc., and could probably be used to make the table found here: https://gswiki.play.net/Alteration_noun_list a little clearer in context. If updated, it would be a prime candidate for transclusion based on your stated goals. Transclusion works in a similar method to templates. It just need a little more finessing.

obsidian hamlet
#

It wasn't a list of nouns -- it was a list of which inventory slots are acceptable for jewelry items. The nouns were just examples to help clarify that primary purpose. Thandiwe made the table, so I can't take any credit there. I was trying to make a helpful contribution by posting it where I think others would be much more likely to find it given that it's likely to be referenced elsewhere in the future, i.e. on the Inventory page, rather than on a page for a specific service in HESS in Duskruin August 2024. I did remove it, based on your first comment that you agreed with Alastir that it was duplicative.

plush totem
#

That's where sectional transclusion comes in. When there is a clear reason to have information duplicated across multiple pages, transclusion allows for that while also making it so that only a single spot needs to be updated at any given time. If that spot is updated, every page that has the transcluded information is updated, as well, instead of needing to be multiples across the board.

Alternately, in lieu of using a table that lists specific nouns based on worn location on the inventory page, something like a smaller table that could be checked off to note "Can this have jewelry or can't it?" might serve the similar purpose.

obsidian hamlet
#

That's very cool! I like that latter idea, as well. Seems like this would be a good candidate for both.

plush totem
#

It could be something that could be updated and added in with each slot listed on the page, as well. I can personally say, from my own position, I'm not a fan of how that page looks as an overall, mostly because I'm finicky and picky about things, but it's on the low end of my list of priorities to look at and deal with since it's serving the purpose for players it's intended to.

plush totem
obsidian hamlet
#

Automated duplication is excellent! Also, if I could please offer a thought here: I framed my original post as a question about whether I'd placed Thandiwe's table in a good spot. I was met with "I hope you intend to update it... it's not needed... and we already have..." -- by someone my character has WIed, nonetheless. Then, that response was agreed with as "correct."

I don't think correctness supercedes kindness, and that reply was not kind. A more welcoming version might be, e.g., "I've already placed it in another spot -- let's talk about where it fits best." I'm hopeful there can be more valuation of how we treat each other in the future, as well as a stance of curiosity prior to making conclusions.

Related, a couple of players have shared with me this week that they'd like to help maintain the Wiki, but they're scared to do it because of the responses received from those who monitor it when they've tried to do so. I share this experience, having been threatened with policy violations twice, once for editing another character's page that turned out to be my character post-account transfer, and again for removing a tag that I'd resolved.

I think players would be eager to contribute if the tone were a little more welcoming, warm, and forgiving for new contributors such as myself, and if a little more attention were paid to how we treat each other, rather than just whether we're right! That's the end of my TED Talk, thanks for tuning in. I appreciate all you do.

plush totem
# obsidian hamlet Automated duplication is excellent! Also, if I could please offer a thought here...

I'm unaware about your history with that player, and while you may have read an unkind in the response, I did not. Thus why I stated the statement was ultimately correct. It's not to diminish you, your contributions, or your situation. It was that I read and agreed with the statement, and as you saw, offered alternate ways to make it work for your intended purposes. This channel is ultimately not meant as a channel to mediate disagreements in such a manner. I'm simply stating things from the end of being the wiki co-manager.

That being said, the GSWiki has a clear policy which is not hidden and the link can be viewed from the sidebar on the front page. Any violation of said policy will get flagged, however explanations or updates will remove those violations with no issue. That policy can be found here: https://gswiki.play.net/Gswiki:Policy . Just like with any policy violation, it does need to be addressed when it is seen by our moderators, and in some cases, myself or GM Tivvy. In most cases, policy is a non-negotiable, which is why when there is a policy violation, it will get flagged.

In the specific case you are referencing, the page was started by one account, then edited by another. Without mention on the character TALK page as is outlined under General Policy 4.2.1, it is unclear when a character changes accounts and a new account is editing the page. We can only go based off page history and if that account differs, it flags as a violation. This is primarily meant as a way to protect those pages and keep them safe from malicious intent.

Additionally, policy is separate from the style guide. The style guide is a little more fluid as it relates strictly to how page formatting should be handled and is something that can be corrected on the backend by the moderator or any other contributor so it fits. These types of things will not get flagged as a policy violation because it's not a policy violation.

#

Along with that, anyone is welcome to contribute to the wiki. In some cases, those contributions are better suited for user pages than for regular articles, as was the case with Myharl's desire to create a master gem list, in which there would have been duplication, one page would have outdated information which the other may only be maintained by a single person. It's one of the reasons why town shops are being redone completely. Many towns and locations would have a list that had to be manually populated and would often be forgotten and ignored. The new template handles that duplication and then some, which ultimately makes it easier for players to add or update the town shops. This is just an example.

One of my goals is to make it easier for players to add certain things to the wiki without concern of not formatting properly, as well... but ultimately, I am trying to remove the barriers that may come with contributing, which includes concern about pages not being formatted correctly. The biggest thing is that the information gets on the wiki.

oak hemlock
#

I think a lot of perception comes from the lack of tone or inflection in text. I sometimes take a read entirely wrong, and likewise sometimes find my replies are read as short or curt when they weren't intended that way in the least. All of my interactions with the wiki team have been just "matter of fact" -- which I can certainly see being read in varied tones, but I think is likely always intended to be efficient.

obsidian hamlet
#

I think you have a very challenging job to maintain such a sprawling document, and I appreciate you doing it! I understand the policies, and the very good reasons for them. I agree with what Myharl said, of course, about text communication. I also think it's ideal to have a Wiki team who enforces the rules thoroughly, as well. I'm simply passing on that other players, and myself, have felt that the reception -- not the content -- was pavement when it could've been cotton. Do with it what you will! I love the Wiki and intend to continue trying to contribute, and learning about how to do so in a way that makes your job easier and helps other players.

plush totem
#

Thank you for your feedback. We do not intentionally try to make things difficult and we want everyone to feel comfortable with contributing to the wiki. If it offers any consolation, it's not just players who have troubles doing so sometimes. Even GMs do.

obsidian hamlet
#

I appreciate you hearing it! Cheers & thanks again for your work on the Wiki. It's a great addition to the game.

teal nacelle
# obsidian hamlet I think you have a very challenging job to maintain such a sprawling document, a...

Just a few tips to make things easier:

-If you're creating something you don't want others to edit, put it on your userpage. Whether it's a new page/guide that's a work-in-progress, personal info dump, or creative works, that's the best way to ensure no one else (including mods) touch it.

-When editing an existing page, do your best to match the style it's already in (tone, formatting, etc) to avoid having to constantly reference the style guide. Most existing pages are already confirming to the style guide and if they're not, you can just blame those that came before you if someone complains.

-If you're unsure how to create an element (tables, category links, specific formatting types, etc), find a page that has that element and click "edit source". It's vastly easier to figure out how to do stuff by looking at an already coded page than using those howto pages. (unless you're one of those people that prefer visual editing.... in that case, I don't understand you and can't help you)

obsidian hamlet
pallid pine
#

Since I was also unaware about this supposed WI history ... Just as a reminder Discord has a block feature.

image.png
slow wasp
teal nacelle
#

Wikis are funny things. On one hand, there needs to be certain guidelines in place to keep them from descending into chaos. On the other hand, when anyone (including moderators) start getting too insistent about their way being the right way, they can easily stagnate. They're one of the few things that operate best when the consensus of the community is allowed to dictate the norms.

Everyone contributing to the wiki is working towards the same goal: making as much information available in the best possible way to the entire GS community. Whatever you perceive the tone of someone that comments on your contributions, it's best to give them the benefit of the doubt that they're trying to do what's best for the wiki rather than assuming it's a personal attack on you.

TLDR: If you don't like others mercilessly editing your work and/or have a hard time taking criticism, feel free to ask those of us that are comfortable with it to add what you'd like to see.

oak hemlock
#

I second the TLDR. A lot of the stuff I've added to the wiki has been entirely because I kept seeing others ask about it here on Discord. I try to be helpful, and sometimes I've had to learn aspects of the game that I never would have being a 1-character player with a KS Warrior. I'm always open to suggestions to add stuff.

dapper nova
#

I wonder if there's any way to implement something to allow filtering of event items by cost? So if I have 15k BS left, I could narrow down my viewable options.

plush totem
#

That sort of the thing requires an extension to be added to the wiki. It's been requested. If added, it likely won't be added until the wiki gets its next full update, which won't be until end of life for the current version. It's something that requires on-site to handle and not something that can be done by the wiki team. Additionally, it would still have limitations as it would be per table, not per page. On individual shop pages, it's easier to manage. On the full shop listing pages, it would be difficult.

#

Ctrl + f is your best bet for now

dapper nova
#

I don't think it would be terribly useful for smaller shop listings. Mainly the full listings. But I hear ya.

teal nacelle
#

someone could make a sortable table that just listed everything for sale at a given event and its price.... but unless there's a way to auto-populate it I'm not aware of, it would be way more work than it's worth to create and keep updated....

dapper nova
#

Hmm, maybe I can scrape it...

oak hemlock
#

That's what I would do, and just pop it into a spreadsheet and sort the pricing column. Thankfully with the scraped data used to build the shop listings in the wiki, the formatting is uniform enough it's pretty quick/easy to capture the basic data.

tardy iron
#

Anything being done with the fact that Visual Edits to the wiki is stripping </PRE> tags out causing all sorts of formatting issues on pages when it happens?

plush totem
#

Unfortunately not. That's not something we can control and it's not something that I think even onsite can fix as it's very likely something that's an issue across all wikis, not specific to Simutronics wikis. The visual editor also tends to mess up tables, and templates, so unless you're doing a simple edit on a super simple page without additional codework needed, the visual editor is not recommended for use.

#

It's basically something that the developers of the visual editor for MediaWiki needs to work out and fix.

unborn quartz
#

The Visual Editor just makes me mad.

reef flame
#

well that's why I keep having to fix pages by adding back the </pre>
won't be using that nifty visual editor again! lol - can we just disable it?

plush totem
#

It still has its uses, and I've messed with it enough to know what I can and can't do with it... and I also notoriously beat the wiki into submission for what I want to do. It has its strengths, but it also has its weaknesses.

reef flame
#

I shall continue adding </pre> for as long as it takes!

tardy iron
#

Probably the best thing to do is to be sure to edit the single section you want to edit instead of the entire page source. That way if it does strip the </pre> tag it's only in a small part of the page.

unborn quartz
#

unless my Wiki search skills are failing me, it looks like there's no information on woven headbands (made through the weaving system) that have been zested through the Weave a Little Dream of Me secateurs - which gives a few verbs and are feature altering for hair.

I want to get this information up somewhere (for my own personal reference - ha!).... and I want to make sure I do it right.

Would it be ok to put the information on the Weave A Little Dream Of Me Collection page at https://gswiki.play.net/Weave_a_Little_Dream_of_Me_Collection_I ?
Or should I tear my hair out and create a new page?

(Either way I'm going to bang my head on the desk a bit. But I'd rather edit a page than add a new one. And I'd rather do it right and not get the Wiki team mad at me.)

rigid pike
#

How did we do it for darning awls

unborn quartz
#

at least I can copy the base code, once I remember how to create the new page and make it a subpage.
Unless anyone wants to make a Weave_a_Little_Dream_of_Me_Collection_I/Zests page

(Hopefully I'm getting the page set up right 🤞🏻 )

plush totem
#

Those pages actually need to be fixed, but that's lower on my list of priorities. It'll likely be on my first list when item pages 2.0 is done.

unborn quartz
#

. . . I need to do this more, I feel like it shouldn't have taken me so long.
And to help me learn, if anything major needs to be fixed, please DM me with what I did wrong and how to do it better in the future

pallid pine
#

Please stop reverting Mana-Infused armor. I don't want to scroll down forever to see the important information.

I removed the:

Template:Itemtier - Optional template
Template:Itemtiermulti - Optional template

Optional templates, in favor of something readable.

plush totem
#

Yes, those templates are optional, however they assist with maintaining format for the item script pages to ensure consistency across all of them. The item script pages have format guidelines for the sole purpose of ensuring and maintaining consistency. If it is not a short blurb of introduction, additional information should be falling under the additional information subheader on the page. This maintains consistency with other pages of similar type. Additionally, you do not need to scroll down to reach the additional information tab as it should be something you can easily click in the TOC.

The moderator is doing their job in ensuring guidelines are being followed and consistency is being maintained.

pallid pine
#

The default should be to have the summary at the top, followed by detailed individual entries below that for all scripts similar to Mana-Infused armor that have multiple unlocks/tiered benefits. The "additional information" is all the extra words that make up the optional templates.

The wiki should be a repository for information, but it should be user friendly and easily readable. I do not find having to scroll past all the "template/additional information" to see the summary table user friendly. It should be one-click to the important information.

plush totem
#

Just dropping a heads up here. We'll be rolling out an update soon-ish for guidelines for guides on the wiki. Currently, the style guide states that these should be set up and maintained solely on user subpages (that would include guide articles written by a group of people or written by a single person on behalf of a group). After some background discussion and a review of the majority of these guides published as standalone articles NOT as user pages as defined in the style guide, we are going to update the style guide to account for guides as standalone articles.

That being said, these guidelines will be fairly relaxed, similar to character pages and creative works, will include a banner indicating they are player strategies, have an option to note when the guide was updated (as things can change with development updates), and beyond that, have minimal moderation. These guidelines are NOT for lich pages as they have specific policy guidelines for them.

Additionally, should guides be instead published as a user subpage, they will not be required to follow these guidelines as they are meant strictly for standalone articles.

teal nacelle
#

Heh, I wasn't even aware we weren't supposed to post them as standalone articles... that must have gone into effect after I gave up on writing them.

granite yarrow
#

Can someone fix the Chatelaine item page so that I can get tier 2 on it... I know I did something wrong but I don't know hwat it was

spark relic
#

It's blank for verbs but the table's now there.

granite yarrow
#

Wait its blank? But I added all the drop messaging!

#

and the get messaging

#

Oh, you meant the new table...

#

<puts her panic away> Thank you!

pallid pine
#

This edit source is a link to edit the Tier Template instead of the actual page.

image.png
granite yarrow
#

🙂 Thank you

plush totem
#

Making a note here: When I started the great town shop migration ™️, I had made some updates to the room description template to account for real room ids separate from the lich ID. Currently, when both are present, it puts the lich id first, the real room ID separate.

Now that all players will be able to access room ids if they so choose, I am going to update the order of priority for view, where the real room id will be listed first without the "u" and the lich ID will be listed second. It's a minor detail, but it's important to prioritize everyone, including those who do not use lich, on this aspect.

thorn breach
#

In what possible way does real room ID help someone without lich? Other than giving GM's directions to find them

plush totem
#

As all players now have access to real room IDs via a flag (this was announced recently), that is the way it will be handled.

thorn breach
#

Sure

iron flare
#

so wait we can "flag room id" and it will take us there?

sharp zealot
#

no, it will let you see them.

iron flare
#

I see them now? [Flightless Dragonfly - 32094] (u8084542)---Is the Wiki going to show them differently than the game?

sharp zealot
#

so you can look at real ids on the wiki and know that you're going for the right spot (as opposed to a map room id that may refer to the room from a different map which has happened)

I'm also hoping that now that we have access to viewing real ids native to GS rather than part of a 3rd party program (lich), it could lead to native usage of it.

The real ID will be listed first on the wiki, then the lich ID

thorn breach
sharp zealot
#

yes. Lich IDs do not in some areas, particularly the higher you go. Festivals, new areas, etc do not use the same Lich IDs.

iron flare
#

backs out quietly

thorn breach
sharp zealot
plush totem
plush totem
# plush totem Just dropping a heads up here. We'll be rolling out an update soon-ish for guid...

This update to guides guidelines (I'm sick of staring at the word "guide") are now live, as is the template and the form to coincide with them as standalone articles. I'll be working through the guides categories in the coming day(s) to get them set up with the template. Additionally, depending on the guide topics, I'll be creating autopopulating lists that coincide with the template to make searching for guides easier based on where people look in categories.

narrow epoch
#

thank you for guiding us through this process 😄

plush totem
#

😭

narrow epoch
#

<gives travel token>

wind estuary
#

Good morning -- would someone be willing, please, to make a wiki page for Whittling Knives (aka Khali knives)? I'm happy to start populating it, but I don't even have a rough sense of how to create a page.

granite yarrow
plush totem
wind estuary
#

Thank you both!!

plush totem
#

... it might help if I include the link I meant to include. I blame mobile discord

pallid pine
plush totem
#

These are an active WIP. Their current status is known.

#

Anything lingering on the old is there because they are pending

pallid pine
#

I guess I could have read the whole page, huh.

mystic elm
#

I noticed many of the TownCrier pages have been issued a new disclaimer on top of them ... which does not really fit.

Buyer's Choice, I can see labeling it as opinions, but certainly not by a single player.

The Teaser Archives ... are reference material, literally, lists of info, not opinions, guides, tutorials, or strategy. Yes, a player wrote them. But they'll never change, they are the news from that moment of the event in question.

I don't know if the **Quick Reference Shop Index **pages will get this same disclaimer or not, but they are compilations of information, too.

plush totem
# mystic elm I noticed many of the TownCrier pages have been issued a new disclaimer on top o...

#1061330227843833926 message

There has been an update to the style guide to accomodate guides (as a whole) on the player wiki as originally, guides should have been kept to user or character pages. As part of this update, I'm going through ALL the pages that are in Category:Guides and adding the banner at the top, as this will apply to all of them. If they are miscategorized, you can remove them from the guides category entirely.

Additionally, the second sentence in the banner is meant to be informative when it comes to the guides (as a whole) as they can definitely be subject to a personal opinion by one or many contributors as they are not meant to be the end all, be all of instruction or advice, and they can also go out of date.

As per the guideslines, both the updated and the original, in order to ensure an article that is considered a guide does not require the banner, it must be created or moved to a subpage of either a user or a character.

The reason why there were updates done was because otherwise, all the guides would require a move to a user page/user subpage. The banner eliminates that requirement.

#

I can update the second line to suggest multiple contributors, as well, if that language is where you're viewing an issue.

mystic elm
#

So do I need to add this to any new page?

plush totem
#

It would need to be, yes, but not necessarily by you. If you create the page, label it as a guide, then the moderators will typically handle it when they do their patrols. That would generally be the extent of the moderation done to them aside from category adding/editing. The meat of the article wouldn't be touched.

mystic elm
#

But yes, for the Buyer's Choice, it should reflect it is from multiple people, not something I just wrote up.

plush totem
#

Okay, if you refresh the page(s), the wording in the template has been updated to reflect the potential for multiple contributors.

mystic elm
#

Thanks Miss Xeraphina. Will do my best to comply with the new rules.

plush totem
#

As an aside, it was requested a while back, and as I'm going through the guides, I'm removing the page protections for the Sylvanfair verb list. This was a list that was imported from a separate website and locked shortly afterwards. I'm removing the page protections since this is considered a guide, and was, and should continue to be, primarily handled by players. The verbs and the verb category has been actively handled with updates as they are rolled out, so this list can be considered in addition to that.

mystic elm
#

We'll have to re-evaulate whether the Shop Index is a guide or not, I guess. I hate to see reference material branded with a disclaimer that says it may not be true.

plush totem
hidden tulip
#

So, if I wanted to update say the CS information to add in missing information on the bestiary pages so for instance:
https://gswiki.play.net/Red_tsark

And add in the Paladin base TD, am I allowed to? I havent really contributed as I know there might be a rule system in place for who can add things. Hence why I am checking for the official way to request or contribute.

I just want to try and be as helpful as possible to the community if I can with how I can assis

wooden dagger
#

Yes you can

teal nacelle
# hidden tulip So, if I wanted to update say the CS information to add in missing information o...

As long as something isn't a page that starts with "User:", official lore documents, or locked so it can't be edited, anyone can edit any page they like to fill in missing info. Just try to be consistent with the existing tone/formatting of the article you're editing and check the discussion tab for important notes (esp if you're planning an extensive edit).... and don't worry TOO much about making mistakes, in the worst-case scenario it can always be reverted to a previous edit with a note for why that was done.

wooden dagger
#

Everybody should err in the direction of making more edits and adding more stuff to the wiki

shy marten
plush totem
#

Okay, semi-announcement time! I'm going to roll out an update to the town shop template in the coming days. Things this update will now handle:

  • Pawnshops
  • Gemshops - These were tricky. For the sake of the town shop template, these should only be considered for those shops that buy and resell the pawned jewelry items in the same shop "name".
    • For example: In Cysaegir, Gems of the Earth is the gemshop in that it buys gems and jewelry, however it will not utilize the town shop template as the sales of the items are handled in Jewels of the Sky which is technically a separate shop.
    • These will be considered in a case by case issue since there are some inconsistancies across towns with how they are set up. "Town services" will be considered separately in this regard, but that's a future update.
  • Alchemy consignment shops - These were added as an update to shop wares... these should only be used under the "addwares" input line since they aren't generally set out outside of magic shops.
  • I've updated the proprietor line to be separate so that it doesn't get lost of clog up the initial introduction paragraph.
    • Along with this, I've added support to the template that allows for automatic transclusion from an NPCs page if the NPC is a specialty design NPC. With this, I've set up a page property to allow for automatic generation of a list to make it easier to find the specialty design NPC shops.

There will be changes to the Town shop form, as well, with this update, as well as the addroom template. Once everything is rolled out, tested and updated, form included, I'll announce and then we can assume that it is open season for shops (though I still intend to go though them all, especially the towns I've already managed to handle to make sure nothing is supremely borked).

plush totem
# plush totem Okay, semi-announcement time! I'm going to roll out an update to the town shop ...

As a follow-up to this... I've updated the Town shops addroom template to include the input for a specialty design NPC, as well. Along with that, I've made it so that it will only populate when roomname is entered into the template. This is primarily important for updates to the form as I'm going to set the form up to be able to have two additional rooms by default. If those templates are left blank, nothing happens and everything is good. Anymore than two will need to be handled manually in the free text like how it is set up currently.

The town shops template update is about to be rolled live, so any shop that is currently using this template will likely see some wonkiness until I (or an intrepid editor) go in to fix it.

I'm also going to create a template that is used primarily for collapsed section information. This is important specifically for those shops where people have done the templated inventory tables with the breakdown of information since these are collapsed by default.

plush totem
#

All templates have been moved live. Nothing is broken so far as I can see. I'll be working on the form later tonight to get it updated to include the new parameters. Treetop Market is the first shop I updated if you'd like to view a completed example.

plush totem
plush totem
#

TV, TI, Cysaegir, MH (and their surrounding areas/locations) have been reviewed and whatever tweaks have needed to be done are done. Nothing broke. This is a great thing! I'll be sweeping through Nielira Harbor, Glaeve, Solhaven, and Sablecross next for review to make sure we're gtg there tomorrow or Saturday.

After there, I will likely be doing an additional update to the template to account for premium home and player shop furnishings. We'll see.

dapper nova
#

Does the wiki change bullets to periods on mobile? Just saw that and thought something happened but it just changes them on mobile apparently?

plush totem
#

I don't view the wiki on mobile so maybe?

dapper nova
#

That's just a really odd functionality.

plush totem
#

Are you looking at the simplified view on mobile or the full view?

dapper nova
#

I was also going to make a table and noticed that a page that has one as an example just has something like {{TableName}}

Are these tables saved somewhere else and somehow linked into the document?

dapper nova
plush totem
#

If you're on your phone, it is something that the browser offers? It's not something from the wiki

dapper nova
#

If you mean as a browser feature, I can set it as the desktop version and it still displays periods instead of bullets.

plush totem
#

And I'm not sure i understand your question about the TableName template as that template doesn't exist on the wiki

dapper nova
#

If you edit source on a page that has a table, like grit or enchanting, those tables look like they are references to something, not the actual markdown to create a table.

plush totem
plush totem
dapper nova
#

Ok thanks, I'll take another peek over that tonight.

#

I'm referring to something like Gear Difficulty Modifiers here. That inserts a table from somewhere.

Screenshot_20241107-184900.png
plush totem
#

Right... so that is set up as a template... so it's the first example I provided.

vivid jay
#

What's the general consensus on spoilers in the wiki so long as they're clearly marked?

In particular for things like Sonreeva, or Night at the Academy, or other paid quests? In some cases there are spoilers. In others there are not. I don't mind updating wikis and sharing information, in general, but I don't want to do it if it causes an issue.

vivid jay
oak hemlock
#

There's a tag for the page
{{Spoiler}}

wooden dagger
#

Actually, all the gear difficulty modifiers are on unified pages that are transcluded to the player service pages

plush totem
# oak hemlock There's a tag for the page {{Spoiler}}

@vivid jay as noted by myharl here, this template marks pages with spoilers to let people know. Additionally, if you don't want it completely viewable when the page is opened, you can also set up collapsed sections

vivid jay
oak hemlock
#

That answer is going to vary depending on who you ask probably. In my opinion, no. I don't see much difference between someone finding assistance on the wiki as apposed to doing something like asking here on discord or on one of the in-game help channels. Purpose of the wiki is to be a repository of information.

#

Particularly in a game where a massive portion of the player base is scripting a majority of those aspects anyway.

vivid jay
vivid jay
#

Okay. Here’s where I had seen it and it now makes sense why. When I edit the gear difficulty modifiers section this is what I see. Looks like it loads templates with the different difficulty modifiers? On mobile so sorry for the crappy paste if it doesn’t work.

Seems like there could be a single “Difficulty modifier” template that would load all the templates. Is that possible? Happy to take it on if need be. It also may be overkill since there aren’t many player services left to worry about.

I noticed this because the warrior page was missing the WPS one (ironically, which I added as its own part). But unless this is added the WPS won’t be on the other ones.

===Gear Difficulty Modifiers===
{{Material_Gear_Difficulty_Modifier}}
{{Script_Gear_Difficulty_Modifier}}
{{Other_Gear_Difficulty_Modifier}}


====Weighting/Padding Difficulty====
Difficulty is the square of CER, truncated, i.e. trunc(CER²).  Whatever the percent to reach the next CER level is also used.  Example, CER plus 10 % chance to get 6 CER would be trunc(5.1²), which is -26 difficulty.  Mixed types are the sum of each type's square - i.e.  [crit trunc(CER²)] + [dmg trunc(CER²)]

====Permanent Resist Penalty Difficulty====

[Total Resist % / 2]
wooden dagger
#

If you look at the bottom of the "other gear difficulty modifiers" table you'll see that WPS is there at at the bottom, although I think it's good that you spelled it out more explicitly. I think it would probably be a good thing for these tables to be cleaned up -- they are pretty chaotic, probably because the only time they get touched is to add some new script to the list

plush totem
devout mantle
#

Is the wiki loading incredibly slowly for anyone else since The Crash?

oak hemlock
vivid jay
oak hemlock
#

So, someone was looking for player shop furniture/facade shops and could not find any information. I delved into the wiki and couldn't find any, and discovered that it appears the rather robust information was edited-out by a single user (GS4ALATIR) in October of last year and the page flagged for deletion. There are no notes in the page discussion explaining why? I'm sure there was some reason? Here is a link to the page before all the content was removed on 10/06/2023. If there's not a reason, I'm going to revert the page.

https://gswiki.play.net/index.php?title=Player_Shop_Furniture&oldid=118177

oak hemlock
#

Found reason. It was moved to a subpage. Updating the discussion on the previous page to clarify. Reflagging for deletion so it can be removed and stop showing up in wiki search results.
New Content Location: https://gswiki.play.net/Player_run_shop/decorations

plush totem
#

While we are going to keep the subpage (orobably), the player shops... shops... are getting folded into the town shop update, as are premium home shops so they all follow the same format and template, this allowing them to also be easily found under a category search, as well as generate in an autopopulating list. Since they don't currently exist as individual shops, however, I'm not prioritizing them as I am premium home furnishings

#

It is likely that once they are set up under the template, they will be transcluded in a similar manner to how premium home furnishings were listed before.

oak hemlock
#

That makes sense.

oak hemlock
#

What's the consensus on wiki stubs? Do they promote content addition or just bog down the wiki with less than useful pages?

Just as an example: none of the pre-scripted items in the premium lighthouse seem to be documented. I added a page for the runestones (dice) there since I had some of those. Would it be helpful to create stubs for the other item options there which I can't update details about because I don't have an example of them to work with?

wooden dagger
#

I think stubs are useful but they have the problem that a lot of people don't like editing pages that already exist, but I think in general it's better to have the page than not

oak hemlock
#

That's my opinion as well. I just wasn't sure which was more frustrating from a user perspective: not finding any page related to your search, or finding a page that provides nothing useful. 😄

rigid pike
#

I much prefer editing pages that already exist

plush totem
# oak hemlock What's the consensus on wiki stubs? Do they promote content addition or just bog...

Stubs are meant to encourage participation from others who may have more information than the article creator might at that tiime. Additionally, the vast majority of pages are open for multiple contributors, with only character pages and user pages being the exception (policy). While creative works and guides are generally considered "specific contributor(s) only," the expectation should be that if it exists on the wiki, anyone can go in and edit the article(s).

teal nacelle
wooden dagger
#

I should contextualize that a little more and say I was thinking about scripted item/DR item pages when I said that; my observation is that the set of players who want to edit those pages is not that large, because they are more difficult to format and people will complain about them if they don't like their purchases. That's just my view!

unborn quartz
#

I'm TERRIFIED of creating a new page. But I will, with varying degrees of confidence, go in and edit a page that already exists, especially if it's an item I have/use a lot and need to reference what it does or script messaging.

So, um, yeah, I'm another vote on please create the stub to encourage others to go in and fill it in 👍🏻

lofty dock
#

If you're unsure of how to start a page, I look at other pages as a reference and steal wiki code from them.

unborn quartz
#

That's exactly what I've done. But I'm still terrified of actually DOING it.
Which really means... I need to do it more animatedeyes

plush totem
#

Town shop migration update:
Zul Logoth shops have been updated to the new format. This includes Khazar's Hold and Zhindel's Post.

Seareach/Brisker's Cove shops have been updated to the new format, as well.

plush totem
rigid pike
#

Then I will happily overwrite stub pages using the form

#

I have done that for a few verb pages

plush totem
plush totem
#

Update:
Kraken's Fall shops have been converted to the new template and can be found here.

As a reminder, if there is a shop in the old category (Capital "S" in shops instead of lower case), it is because it doesn't actually sell anything (which will be the prime definition of a shop) and requires further action that is planned for a future project.

Additionally, at this time, anyone is welcome to update/migrate the shops to the new format using the Town shop form as it handles quite a bit within it and makes things super easy for the migration/update.

unborn quartz
#

Question for the Wiki Team:
It looks like the wiki page for the Mini-Smelter was recently updated to fit within a style guide. Personally, I'm not overjoyed at the update because what was once very easy and clear to reference while using this item is now a lot of black-on-white text without some of the spacing and formatting that made it easy to use on-the-go. But... whatevs, I can learn to live with that (though I'm probably going to mutter a few 3- and 4-letter words every time).

However.... the table of contents for the page now just has Jewelry Options. Which means that if I'm trying to do an easy review of what my options are for, say, the band, I have to click on Jewelry Options and then scroll down to where band is at the bottom.

Can I give each jewelry type a link in the TOC under the Jewelry Options? Or is someone going to get cranky with me and remove it all, especially considering that there's quite a few of them?

I don't know about anyone else, but I use this page as a reference when I'm actively working on an item or planning a design, so the faster and more easily I can get to my info, the better.

plush totem
#

They're update(s) actually added more of any information breakdown to the page as with the Jewelry/Jewelry Options headers, information that wasn't present or was lacking beforehand.

#

Since the TOC limit isn't built into the template (at least not yet, since the item script template(s) are on my list of planned updates, you could update the TOC limit template (it's towards the top of the code so it should make it easy to find) to 3, however keep in mind that the TOC could get fairly long and exhaustive if more and more item types get added.

unborn quartz
# plush totem So, looking at the page history. the last update prior to our moderator doing th...

I'm pretty sure there was a separate page for the jewelry, and it got merged in on the Mini-Smelter page.
The TOC length is my concern, too. But, again, I'm thinking from a reference standpoint and, bluntly, the way it's formatted is poop for trying to do quick looks - things that are all on a single line and comma separated used to be spaced out so I could see them better.
So anything I can do to help that page feels like a good thing. But I don't want to come back in 3 months and see it all undone because of style guide. (Which I do understand, even if I don't like in this particular case.)

plush totem
#

Part of the issue is that the original page set up didn't follow the style guide properly. It just took a bit for our moderator to get to it to make sure it conformed. That information shouldn't have been listed separately in the way that it was and had it been handled sooner, it likely wouldn't be causing the issue you feel you are facing now. I have noted the solution for your particular question, however, regarding the TOC and how to update that to include subheader 3(s) to be clickable in it. Aside from that, it's best to keep the jewelry to their own subheaders, and any additional formatting you feel would make it easier to view for yourself or others would be up to you.

unborn quartz
#

Yup, totally understand. When I saw "update for style guide" I figured it was to bring things in line. And I'm sure there's someone happy about the change because they didn't like the way it looked before.

And sometimes I need someone to be able to bounce a thought off in order to see that... yeeeaaahhh... seems ok on the surface but is ultimately a bad idea. Better to go through that here than have the Wiki left in a state someone needs to go clean up.

Better thing to do is for me to write a guide from the creative viewpoint, instead of mechanical side, because then I can format it any way I want 😆 (especially if the guide is posted not on the Wiki)

plush totem
# unborn quartz Yup, totally understand. When I saw "update for style guide" I figured it was to...

Well, guides can be posted to the wiki... if you put them on your user page, unless it violates policy, no one should be touching it, including the moderators...

If you write a guide on it's own page, there is a chance that other players may edit it, but it's generally not recommended. Aside from some very minor requirements for player-writted guides on the wiki, you can have it however you want there.... And that requirement is just a template banner at the top of the page to denote it was written by a player.

#

Guides are one of those pages that the wiki team tries to limit moderation on. As long as it doesn't violate policy, it's generally fairly open-ended.

teal nacelle
# unborn quartz Yup, totally understand. When I saw "update for style guide" I figured it was to...

I'm glad I read to the bottom before replying, cause Xeraphina already said most of what I was going to recommend. Rather than taking the time to write out your own guide or whatever, since the old edit seemed to be working for you, create a sub-page to your user page and copy/paste the old edit onto that..... and update the info as needed.

I've got enough sub-pages on mine I'm convinced someone's going to tell me to stop making them eventually....

unborn quartz
scenic orchid
#

FYI - added this to the Covert Art page. I'm not a regular on wiki edits, so someone please guide me if it was done incorrectly.

plush totem
scenic orchid
#

What are the rules around adding an AI created image to a creature wiki page?

#

Was considering adding a few, like this Horned Basalt Grotesque:

file-R9aFgW3zoDf2dS69Dz2x39.png
oak hemlock
#

That's a good question. I've noticed a few NPCs that players have added generated images for.

civic lantern
#

AI is such a beneficial tool for GS and other MUD’s. Being able to copy and paste descriptions into a program like midjourney🤌🏻

oak hemlock
#

Stating up front that it has no bearing on whether it is or isn't (should or shouldn't be) allowed for the wiki in this context....

It is, and it certainly can be a powerful creative tool. Though, I do worry about loss of creative agency. Me generating an image that closely realizes a visual representation of how I see my own character is one thing. Making unrequested images to represent characters or content created by another, maybe not? Particularly in the context of being utilized as a part of community documentation like the wiki. How I, or you, or another third party would realize a monster or NPC may not be in line with what the creator intended. On the flip side of that, policy already requires that images be noted with method of creation and creator, so it would indicate a sort of "as imagined by" notation. It feels like one of those spaces where conflicts could arise when one person's vision doesn't match another's.

Just food for thought.

#

Just as an example, I have an image on my character's wiki page that depicts him and a wyrm. Since that page specifically represents how I envision my character and his experiences, I'm comfortable with placing it there in that context. I don't think I'd be comfortable plugging that same representation of the beast on the wiki page focused on the topic of the wyrm.
https://gswiki.play.net/Myharl_(prime)#Wyrm_Slaying

And, to provide a real-world example of how I can see conflict arising: There was a rather spirited discussion about Niima, daughter of the Arkati Charl, the other day on the #game-chatter channel. How that character "looks" is very different to different people, yet she is an integral part of Elanthian lore that holds a lot of significance for some characters.

oak hemlock
#

Heh. Now having typed all that and thought it all through, my personal recommendation would be to treat player-created art and generated images exactly the same we we treat any other player-generated creative content on the wiki: relegated to pages denoted for such content, such as character wiki pages.

plush totem
#

There is actually specific policy in regards to ai-generated art in the wiki

scenic orchid
#

So they could be updated.... i may try one, and ask that it be verified i noted everything appropriately, before doing more

scenic orchid
#

This is mildly why i thought it's something that Simu would need to own, instead of the playerbase... Example:
I made these of death knights and dreadsteeds last night.

But Death knight is a good example, where someone else has created content (i believe it's not through AI).... which image is the image that should remain (Or both could, i guess)

file-DKm1WgeAaEW3GjSdrQQsuV.png file-FtF9Bz2tDJ9XqD9TcK1jfW.png file-12L8MV6dJjpeqvnT1TrCEo.png
#

Current content:

461px-Infernaldeathknight.png
marsh quarry
# oak hemlock That's a good question. I've noticed a few NPCs that players have added generate...

Speaking as someone who’s used AI to generate images of NPCs that have made it to the wiki, I don’t personally put them there. I leave it up to the GM behind that NPC to decide if they want to use it or not. Personally, I’d also side against putting AI generated images of creatures, places, or NPCs on those pages, for the very reason you suggest: we might view them differently. And in the example of the death knight Kontii uses, we already have official, non-AI art.

plush totem
#

With regards to creatures, etc., one thing to note is that if an official image exists (ie created and copyright owned by Simutronics), it will always supercede what a player would imagine or create.

There is nothing in policy the prohibits players from uploading an image of that nature to the wiki, so long as it follows the policy outlined. If an image owned and copyrighted by Simutronics is created, it would take the "main spot" of that image as the official artwork, however, the player uploaded version may still be featured on the creature page, just lower, and still following policy.

#

Beyond that, it becomes personal preference as to whether you wish to upload it or not.

#

As far as NPCs, I honestly don't maintain my own. If players want to, great. If they want to make artwork for them, great. I would only step in in the case of grossly incorrect edits or information on them. Otherwise I'm more inclined to pay more attention to my PC pages instead. It's not that I don't care about my NPCs, but I have more important wiki things to worry about, ngl. This reflects only my opinion, however, and other GMs may feel differently about their NPCs.

scenic orchid
#

I loaded the banshee.... i put the notes for it on the actual file page (per the guide).

I did not know how to properly add a caption to the image on the creature page. Is this acceptable, or do I need to make sure it's noted somewhere on the creature page too?

image.png
plush totem
# scenic orchid I also realize i messed up the naming convention on the file page... i dont beli...

I'm not at home right now to offer best direction, especially when considering the template, as the template doesn't appear to be set up to allow for captions at this time, which would be an easy fix for me to do when at my computer, so it's fine for now. If/ when I fix that in the template, I can announce here, but there is a chance the moderator may fix it before you do once that template is updated.

As far as naming convention, it's fine as is. It doesn't need to be an exact match and it might be preferred not to be, in case an official image comes out.

scenic orchid
scenic orchid
thorn breach
plush totem
scenic orchid
plush totem
#

You're welcome!

plush totem
plush totem
plush totem
#

@wooden osprey Sorry for tagging you again, but wanted to let you know that I've (mostly) finished updating the specialty design NPC auto-populating list. It's going to take a hot minute as I had to update a template and the properties are still trying to catch up in the cycle: https://gswiki.play.net/Specialty_design_NPC#Locations

wooden osprey
iron flare
# 
There is something wrong with this one log on the wiki The Watchfire Pact(storyline)/2023-09-27 - The Opening of Crystalhall (log)```
#

looks like this got messed up somehow?

plush totem
# iron flare ```Dendum — Today at 1:42 PM There is something wrong with this one log on the w...

If this was a super long log, then yes, it got messed up because it was too long/too large of information for a single page on the wiki. I believe this was one that the moderator was looking into in terms of attempting to fix, but hasn't had sucess, yet. It would need to be broken up into smaller chunks as part 1/2/3, etc, but there's a specific way that it needs to be done since regular editing isn't possible due to the issue.

iron flare
#

Okay. Do you need me to fix it or will you be able to do it? it worked before things got changed over.

plush totem
#

The moderator is working on a solution as it's not an easy (for regular users) fix. The update had things happen here and there, but not everything has an issue. One of the things, I believe, is a smaller page size allowance, which i believe is 2mb?

plush totem
#

Town shops migration update: As of this moment, all valid town shops have been updated to the new template. Anything remaining in the old NPC shops category will remain there until they are properly organized. Some of these are shops that were incorrectly set up as a shop, or do not actually sell anything for silvers are are more place of interest that have items, primarily food, available for free to players. The wiki team thanks you for your patience while these pages were being moved and updates were being made to the template.

In the next few days, I'll be doing some additional category cleanups, primarily just to tidy up and ensure consistency across them.

plush totem
agile dune
#

Hey all! I received a message about my Voln for Dummies wiki page, and I wanted to just let you guys know that I added a copyright blurb. I reached out to the creators via the email provided on their page prior to publishing it and was told to use any of the materials on that page. I have the email if you'd like to tell me who I can forward that to, I'd be more than happy to do so.

plush totem
agile dune
#

Will do - ty

plush totem
#

Town shops migration update: With the exception of the shops where you can MAKE souvenirs for foraged items, this is completed, including category cleanup.

Additional testing is in progress to account for the foraged item souvenirs, and when complete (shouldn't take too long), we'll be done done.

rustic wasp
#

I noticed Erithi Hairstick Weapons don't have a wiki page. Would someone be willing to set up the base template for the page, and I can go in and add all the verbs, etc.? 🥺

fallen venture
#

I updated them in 2023 and put a small note there but I don't think I did anything else, so please, go to town!!

plush totem
plush totem
#

So, apparently there are shops in HW... those have been added. >.>

vague whale
#

Could this be added to the wiki somewhere in some form. It's good to have clarity on this situation.

Lydil — Today at 12:45 PM
If someone kills you and you kill them back, typically that can be fine if it is they kill you, you kill them.  And then it's done.  I say typically because not all conflicts are the same.

Tikba — Today at 12:45 PM
cvc is allowed!

Lydil — Today at 12:45 PM
But one and done means it's done.  You don't keep starting stuff with them.  You don't go and be vocal about them.  And you don't come to Discord about it.

Nisugi — Today at 12:45 PM
Thank you for the green light to retaliate.

Lydil — Today at 12:45 PM
But if you get into a murderfest back and forth you're moving beyond that scope.
rigid pike
#

You are omitting the portion where he mentions that it's facts based. This is not a free for all approval to retaliate in all instances.

vague whale
#

Please add the missing parts then
The point is, the information should be available. I shouldn't sit here for years being acosted thinking the other player is just getting away with violating policy while I abide it.

rigid pike
#

You are intentionally taking things out of context and moving the conversation when it was asked that we move on

vague whale
#

I am intentionally asking for information to be placed where it's easily accessed is all.
I am not discussing anything.

rigid pike
#

You have been told the policy. If you are having issues with a player and need intervention, you are to REPORT when the harassment is occuring and ASSIST to follow up with it on record

vague whale
#

Email to feedback it is so it can be dealt with without ego.

loud hemlock
plush totem
#

How are you searching?

#

Are you using the first name? Case sensitivity?

#

The wiki search is moderately okay, but it's not the best and can be very particular.

rigid pike
#

I was having trouble with the search the other day too but I can't remember what it was now. I think mine might have been case sensitivity

loud hemlock
#

odel works

plush totem
#

Using Magister in the name is not going to pull it up easily as that is not what the page title has, and it's not prominent enough in the NPC's description on the page for the wiki to be smart enough to discern it from other pages. It does pull up under "Page text matches" and you need to scroll down to find it. Odelgard (no e) will not produce the proper results as the name is misspelled and will only pull up the the mispelled version of the name in logs from what I pulled. Odelgarde (with the e) does work to pull up what is needed, but does not go directly to the page, it just pulls up page matches. Like I said, the wiki search is moderately okay, but it's not the best and is picky.

rigid pike
#

May I hate it

mystic elm
#

Wiki Clarification Request, please?

I was going to start a list of where Jeepers Creepers Bird Gems are allowable, but when I went to the wiki page to do it ... EDIT SOURCE for that section is not even related to what is displaying on the wiki.

So ... I'm out.

But this would be really useful information to document. So I'm throwing myself on the mercy of those with a great deal more knowledge than I have.

Thank you.

plush totem
mystic elm
#

Scary stuff, Miss Xeraphina, Scary stuff!

vivid jay
# mystic elm Scary stuff, Miss Xeraphina, Scary stuff!

While I'm not a world-class editor, i find it a little cleaner to edit the whole page. That way a missing tag from another part doesn't inadvertently mess me up (it happens)

Also, ChatGPT for the win with a statement like: Please validate the following wiki entry: <paste>

mystic elm
reef flame
#

teach me how and I'll fix them Tysong 🙂

tardy iron
#

Looks like the https://gswiki.play.net/Template:Spell may need an update so that self-cast buffs and casting them on others can have two separate duration values shown due to the change from 1200 secs for Defensive buffs self-cast and others, to being 1200 secs (20min) base for others and 72000secs (2hrs) for self cast

reef flame
#

is that something we can do or needs a mod?

tardy iron
#

Looks like we can... but could end up messing it up if done incorrectly. But looks pretty simple. Just not sure what the Wiki team would like to use for the name. do they want {{{others_dur}}} or {{{other_dur}}} or something else entirely.

reef flame
#

Base Duration (Self)
Base Duration (Others)

Like that maybe?

tardy iron
#

and do we leve the current one and add both self_dur and other_dur

    {{{custdur|
    ! Base Duration
    {{!}} valign="top" style="white-space: nowrap; text-align: right;" {{!}} {{{base_dur}}}
    {{!}}-
+   ! Base Duration (self)
+   {{!}} valign="top" style="white-space: nowrap; text-align: right;" {{!}} {{{self_dur}}}
+   {{!}}-
+   ! Base Duration (other)
+   {{!}} valign="top" style="white-space: nowrap; text-align: right;" {{!}} {{{other_dur}}}
+   {{!}}-
    ! Added Duration
    {{!}} valign="top" style="white-space: nowrap; text-align: right;" {{!}} {{{add_dur}}}
    {{!}}-
    ! Span
    {{!}} valign="top" style="white-space: nowrap; text-align: right;" {{!}} {{{span}}}
    {{!}}-

Is what I'd do. then you change the spell page to use self_dur and other_dur instead of base_dur

reef flame
#

It's not a rush - I don't mind waiting for Xeraphina to give us guidance if you prefer. Not sure I have time to fix everything now anyways.

tardy iron
#

I'd wait for feedback from Wiki team so that not doing something that has to be edited twice

plush totem
#

My feedback: have at it. Those templates are on my list to review, but so far down that I can't even state when I'd ever get to them.

reef flame
#

Ok testing it out on 202 after having update the template with Tysong's suggestion.

#

can this be toggled for base duration to not show up if no data is specified?

image.png
tardy iron
#

never edited a wiki template, but should be able to add some "if" logic in to it

reef flame
#

{{ #if: {{{base_dur|}}} | ! Base Duration
thinking this

there's a similar line above it: {{ #if: {{{duration|}}} | ! Duration for a different item

plush totem
#

Yes, that's about right

reef flame
# 
    {{!}} valign="top" style="white-space: nowrap; text-align: right;" {{!}} {{{duration}}} 
    {{!}}-
    |
    {{{custdur|
    {{ #if: {{{base_dur|}}} | ! Base Duration
    {{!}} valign="top" style="white-space: nowrap; text-align: right;" {{!}} {{{base_dur}}}
    {{!}}-
    {{ #if: {{{self_dur|}}} | ! Base Duration (self)
    {{!}} valign="top" style="white-space: nowrap; text-align: right;" {{!}} {{{self_dur}}}
    {{!}}-
    {{ #if: {{{other_dur|}}} | ! Base Duration (other)
    {{!}} valign="top" style="white-space: nowrap; text-align: right;" {{!}} {{{other_dur}}}
    {{!}}-```
I'm not sure how that `custdur` line is interacting though.
plush totem
#

I'm mobile so I can't get too much into the weeds about this.

tardy iron
#

may be better to just revert the template and do:

 | base_dur = 2 hours (self)<br>20 mins (other)
#

until wiki team do an overhaul of those templates

reef flame
#

thankfully PREVIEW showed me that my code above is borked (as expected) so I did not put those changes in - need to run for a few hours but will catch up with you both on this later 🙂

tardy iron
#

the previous changes though bork ALL spells though. I'll revert it

image.png
plush totem
#

#temperedexpectations

reef flame
reef flame
#

Ok I'm working through this. Taking a break now after doing the 1-900 circles (all buff spells in those circles).

reef flame
#

Ok I'm done. All buff spells from all circles should be accurate now. Hopefully I didn't make any mistakes!

rigid pike
#

thank you

reef flame
#

thanks to Tysong for helping me figure out a good way to do it

plush totem
#

Yes, thank you!

thorn breach
#

@vapid tartan @fading scroll an image uploaded to the Tabubu character page is at risk for deletion and you must put [[Category:AI artwork]] in the description of the image as well as include some arbitrary language about you having permission to upload it

@hard owl you have some other images as well

fading scroll
#

yea, we are trying to figure that out right now.

#

@thorn breach Thank you for the heads up

thorn breach
#

@buoyant lava your page is under risk of...something you may also wish to review it

#

a reminder, [[Category:AI artwork]] also needs to be on the image file itself. Just an article caption is not sufficient for these purposes. When uploading you can put it in the summary page if it has already been uploaded clicking on the image and going to edit you can throw it anywhere in the edit potion, but the bottom is probably best, as it will do the same thing.

image.png
tardy iron
#

Could there be some notes added to the upload file page about ARTWORK in some sort of bold info?

#

That would help a LOT I would imagine (as long as people read it, people do read things in a text based mud right... right?)

fading scroll
thorn breach
# fading scroll I think this was done when uploaded on mine.

yours must include some language like "I was granted permission to modify this page by the owner of the page", or you yourself could probably go in and add "I granted permission to blah blah blah to modify this page"....not that they have any possible way of knowing if the first instance is true or not unless someone makes a claim that it wasn't true.

fading scroll
#

Thats what I did. Now we wait to see if that is what they wanted.

fading scroll
#

Thanks Dendum for the help again!! Your still one of my favs.

plush totem
tardy iron
#

Yeah, not seeing an option to edit Special:Upload page either. You'd think that could be something editable without direct code level modifications. Perhaps a higher privledge than you may have? Some sort of master administrator?

# 
Editing Special namespace pages
The Special: namespace stands for special pages generated by MediaWiki. There is no matching talk space. The special pages are not made up of wikitext and are therefore not editable like other pages might be.

They usually contain system messages from MediaWiki namespace, which are editable by interface administrators.

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Special_pages

In MediaWiki 1.32 the rights for editing sitewide CSS, JS and JSON, and interface messages flagged as raw, were separated from the right to edit pages in the MediaWiki namespace. Users now need both editinterface and (respectively) editsitecss, editsitejs or editsitejson to be able to do so. The only user group that has all of those permissions by default is interface-admin.

https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki_1.32/interface-admin

fun stuff

plush totem
#

Yeah, so interface admin means someone with server level access, which means onsite

outer pivot
#

Popping this up here as I don't have the capacity to do it, but was something I noticed -- There's an inconsistent use of WIP vs Stub. Lots of pages with the 'works in progress' category appear to be incomplete NPC pages for example, and may be better designated as Stubs, so the general community knows they can update freely. Food for thought anyway..
https://gswiki.play.net/Category:Works_In_Progress
https://gswiki.play.net/Gswiki:Stub

rigid pike
#

I was apparently just clicking poorly, I guess it does work

unborn quartz
#

I've noticed that only the first has the [Expand] bit, but all the others are linked on here to expand the list.
finchieShrug

Also, I love you, Vanah (even if my OCD wants to go in and alphabetize the lists something fierce)

plush totem
rigid pike
#

also, is there a way to get them all to expand

plush totem
#

Yes

#

I'll DM you when I get home

spark relic
#

I think I got it, Vanah
also this list is really cool!

shell bough
#

(i found and fixed the toggle typo)

rigid pike
#

nice, thanks

plush totem
#

Y'all are awesome

silver skiff
pallid pine
thorn breach
#

@raven garden not sure what is up with your page but it looks like an image file is not displaying correctly. just an FYI.

raven garden
#

the music page?

thorn breach
raven garden
#

ahhh i have to add in the ownsership info

#

ty for bringing that to my attention

umbral summit
#

https://gswiki.play.net/Platinum_subscription

Curious if I am allowed to add a blurb at the top of this page directing folks to the migration page? Current information is misleading(it took me joining the discord to learn about it after debating on coming back for a month)

plush totem
umbral summit
#

Wondering if we can get this template updated to include a war-spell category to differentiate for the new Tomes and other things that are seperated in that manner:
https://gswiki.play.net/Template:Spell

vivid jay
#

Would it be appropriate if I added a column to the gemstone properties page? The column would basically be for notes or important information.

For example, the Pixie’s Mischief legendary. The description says debuff spells, but it appears to apply to any disabler. 610, 611, 612, for example. Reading debuff, I might not have thought that these were included, but they are.

#

It could be a lack of understanding that disabler means debuff.

pallid pine
#

I think it's a good idea. We could also place start/stop messaging there or any other helpful tidbits

vivid jay
pallid pine
granite yarrow
#

What needs fixing about it?

#

Oh, I see

urban isle
#

{goes to peek at the history to figure it out} Oh...I see now, too. 😄 I couldn't figure it out earlier.

umbral summit
#

Its horrible when lines don't match up 🙃

granite yarrow
#

i was going to say there's like 3-4 things wrong with it

urban isle
#

Hm...I looked on mobile, so maybe I missed stuff.

granite yarrow
#

I'm almost done.

#

There we go

#

Though, it does display that I didn't do this year's tattoo

pallid pine
#

There's nothing for sale in these rooms, they don't need to be shown.

image.png
fallen venture
#

They do help players navigate to where the items for sale are, since you go through those rooms to get there.

#

And they would technically be part of the shop

pallid pine
#

I think showing where the Lizard Vivarium connects on the OUTSIDE would help players (without lich) navigate to where the items for sale are.

[Rumor Woods, Caravan Trail - 31185] (u8208757)
You notice a large glass-enclosed vivarium, a dark plum wool tent capped with a silver pennon and a brown canvas tent smeared with green and black paint.
Obvious paths: south, northwest

You could then look at the actual map and figure out where you needed to go.
https://gswiki.play.net/images/gswiki/e/ef/RW2024-042724EK.png

#

[Lizard Vivarium, White Walkway - 33546] (u8209354)

This room was added and it doesn't even connect to anything for sale. It's just extra stuff to read while looking through the shop list.

fallen venture
#

Both 8209253 and 8209254 both have enclosures that are portals into the 2 enclosures that sell things (250 and 251)

pallid pine
# 
[Lizard Vivarium, White Walkway - 33546] (u8209354)
Light and airy colors dominate the walkway with brightly painted, white wooden beams and colorful, potted hydrangeas strewn about the area.  White jasmine has been wound around the beams of the pen's fence, while smooth white stones and brass lanterns define the path through the walkway.
Obvious exits: northeast, southeast
>anal room
You don't see any exits leading away from the area.
fallen venture
#

And the top of that page you linked for Tortoise Holdings, which is what you were questiong Xeraphina on, does show the name of the portal leading into it.

#

I wasn't looking at, nor was I commenting on, the Lizard Vivarium, because you were questioning a GM's adding a shop room back into a shop on the Tortoise Holdings. I went there and looked, and I provided you with one of the primary reasons we would have done that.

pallid pine
fallen venture
#

I get what you are saying, Alastir -- you don't like the fact that a shop's page shows all the rooms of the shop, if the rooms do not have something for sale.

And I'm sure when Xeraphina has a moment, she can clarify if I am wrong, but my guess is...we include all the rooms of the shop itself by default to ensure they are all there, as that may assist in navigation through the shop itself to find the wares. Hence, her adding it back in on the Tortoise Holdings.

Now, if the standard is that we remove the rooms that do not have for sale items (or we do not yet have a consistent standard and are trying to work toward one), then I have no doubt that the wiki team, of which Xeraphina is a part, will work on that!

As always, we definitely appreciate players adding to the wiki, fleshing out missing information, etc. It can be difficult to navigate some of the templates for a lot of people, so those of you that do it with ease and aplomb are appreciated! Part of the wiki team's role is to review those and if they aren't quite in line with how we want it to look, they'll tweak those updates to match. I'm guessing that is what happened here.

It's not meant to be a correction like "don't touch these pages," or anything...it's "hey, need to add this back in because it's how we're treating shops" and just gets done behind-the-scenes to get it in line with standards.

pallid pine
#

Which one makes more sense?

Reading Mount Summoning Item 20 times, or reading what the thing actually summons, so you don't have to search for what the summoning device summons in the room description boxes above it.

image.png image.png
fallen venture
#

Alastir, all the rooms in the shop are being displayed. It's the wiki team's job to review changes the rest of us make and tweak as needed.

They go in and tweak my stuff all the time so it falls in line with whatever protocol I may have missed. It's no big deal.

#

Now, for the actual summoning prop change that you did that shows more info -- i.e. showing what it summons vs just that it is a summoning prop item, it's my understanding we are going to get that back to showing it the way you did it

#

All the changes on that page were reverted to get the rooms you deleted back in, and you'll not like on the lizard page, those summoning prop changes stayed in. We just missed the one on the cervidae.

#

And you'll note that the turtle shop left them as well

pallid pine
#

I hadn't got that far. lol

I just think a goal should be for the shop lists to be easily digestible, there is a lot of information to read through. I'll assume for now there is a reason for adding in every room inside a shop. But I feel it's unnecessary (for players).

mystic elm
#

I was adding some new candy rollers from the pile to the Gnomic candy making machine page at the wiki - and it's been Columnarized since I edited this yesterday.

So I chose visual edit, and added things to the right columns by clicking in an empty cell and entering the name.

Oh, what a MESS after saving. Then I tried just adding three items to the same column.

STILL a mess.

I've backed out the edits, but before I try to piece together columns for this long list of additional rollers ... is there a secret to this that was not obvious to me?

pallid pine
#

Always do edit source.

Then just copy what looks correct to you, paste it below that one, and edit it to what you're trying to add.

Then Show Preview, if it looks correct, save it. If not, try to figure out what is different from the thing you copied, fix it, show preview, etc.

fallen venture
#

Uh, I have no idea because I hate Visual Edit, it's so hard to do well, in my opinion

#

I always do Edit Source, like Alastir said

mystic elm
#

I usually do, too ... but columns presented a ridiculous edit.

So I thought I'd give the visual a try. And everything was good u ntil I hit SAVE.

#

The Crafters of Elanthia are sharing finds from the pile. I think what I will do is keep my own sheet .... and rewrite the whole table every day with the edit updates from everyone in Crafters of Elanthia. (there, I got the right name of the server n now)

Unless I've missed something really obv.

pallid pine
umbral summit
#

Xeraphina, quick question regarding the Visually Impaired guide. It still references Stormfront Front End and when I went to edit it says my account needed editor permissions. Did my account somehow get blocked from editting?

plush totem
#

Hrm... Were you able to edit before?

umbral summit
#

Not that page, but other pages. Im on mobile, so I will check on my PC in a few minutes

plush totem
#

Are you logged in? (asking since you said you're on mobile and you might not be)

umbral summit
#

Nevermind. Must have been a mobile issue. I was logged in on mobile, must have just been a glitch

umbral summit
#

So I noticed the RW shop Fist Class Plane Ticket has been improperly named First Class Plane Ticket. Is this something I can fix, or should I let Thandiwe or one of the Wiki Moderators correct it?

plush totem
umbral summit
plush totem
#

Okay. Anyone can fix it, honestly.

#

I only ask because if it's typoed in the shop listing, that would need to get fixed, also.

umbral summit
#

I believe it was typoed in the release, and then subsequent page creations. Then fixed here, but never updated on the wiki

plush totem
#

The release announcement isn't really an issue as that doesn't link to anything, generally. It's just the shop listing (ie, the full listing of shop inventories, NOT the shop list that's announced) that is linked to the page.

#

So if the page moves, the link needs to be fixed.

#

I've been having routing issues today so I've given up on trying to log in and do anything or I'd fix it myself

umbral summit
#

I hope I didn't break anything

plush totem
urban isle
#

So...Wiki has been super super slow on and off for the past week or two. There something up with the server? Known issue?

umbral summit
#

Now its just down for me, oh wait....popped back up on a reload

plush totem
#

I bubbled this up, but this may be a routing issue. The only time I've seen problems of late is the day that I was having general routing issues all around, and haven't noted anything since then.

urban isle
#

Thanks! FWIW, I defintely wasn't having any other issues (in game, on discord, other site), prettysure play.net worked fine last time, too.

plush totem
#

Right, I'm saying the last time I saw an issue with the wiki was around the same time that I was having the other issues, and I'm not having issues with either right now, so it's hard to say. All I can do is bubble up as anything related to lag on it is beyond my scope of capabilities.

urban isle
#

Yep, thanks! Just adding some details. 🙂

plush totem
#

You're welcome

pallid pine
plush totem
#

This has been fixed. I paused in trying to find the perfect solution that would include links linking properly for other things. That list will now link to the shop, but will not have any other links otherwise.

#

And the point was, specifically, to have a quick at-a-glance view as to what the shop sells. The quick reference list on the shop listing acts like a pseudo TOC in that it can link to the shop's section in that list, however it's not perfect and when the shop gets overgrown into two pages instead of one, there isn't a way for it to link to those shops. These are the limitations of the autopopulating query search lists.

pallid pine
#

Thank you. I like it when there are minimal clicks to get from A to B.

urban isle
plush totem
#

I've bubbled it up. I can't say what they would be doing with it at this time as that is above my head and would be onsite if they need to test anything.

umbral summit
#

Ok, three times today I have received a time_out error when loading a wiki page, then it automatically reloads and it is fine. It is still slow to load like the past few days, but I had not gotten the time_out message before.

plush totem
#

I can confirm i was having issues this morning, as well, but it wasn't just our wiki that I had noticed problems on. Out of curiosity, what browsers are you using?

urban isle
#

Chrome here. I saw the timeouts, too, and tried just play.net, store.play.net, and skills training which all seemed to be normal.

plush totem
#

Can you replicate the wiki issue on another browser?

urban isle
#

Sure, I have Firefox and Edge. Will advise.

umbral summit
#

Edge here

plush totem
umbral summit
#

Just took 8-9 seconds to open the recent changes link.
play.net/gs4 took 1 second
simustore login no delay
13 seconds to use link from play.net/gs4 to open wiki. Timed out but automatically reloaded with no lag