@knotty flax okay! thx!
#questions-2
fervent kernel
knotty flax
Np
crystal mural
Zufällig and Stichprobenartig are the exact same?
long whale
Well... zufällig means both random and accidentally (depending on context), while stichprobenartig might be said to be synonymous with nach dem Zufallsprinzip :) @crystal mural
long whale
Yes. Just like "really". :) @tacit crane
tacit crane
okay thanks
restive pier
is it really neccessary that I memorize all the genitive forms of nouns
fallow ledge
No
They are very regular
There are a few exception as weak masculine nouns, but these are amoungst themselves quite regular
The regular form is with an -(e)s when maskuline or neuter:
Das kind des Mannes
Der Vater des Kinds
And no ending when feminine:
Das Kind der Frau
Weak masculine nouns recieve an ending in akkusativ, dativ and genitiv:
Der Name
Den Namen
Dem Namen
Des Namens
However if it refers to a person then it drops the -s:
Des Neffen.
The only exceptions are der Herr and das Herz:
Der Herr
Den Herrn
Dem Herrn
Des Herrn
Das Herz
Das Herz
Dem Herzen
Des Herzens
Heres a nice page: https://www.vistawide.com/german/grammar/german_nouns03.htm
In General is not very important and the exceptions are usually pretty easy to spot, so dont worry yourself too much about it 😄 @restive pier
restive pier
yea cause like you can just use the dativ with von and it will mean the same thing
languid warren
Ist "I'm unhealthy" meistens "Ich bin nicht gesund" oder "Ich bin ungesund"
fallow ledge
@restive pier genitiv is a nice case, and the idea that its going out of fashion is a bit of a myth
@languid warren die beiden sind richtig, aber ich finde „ich bin ungesund“ schöner 👍
Ich höre das auch öfter, also ich bin ungesund wäre der häufiger verwendete Ausdruck von den
bronze garnet
do you mean that as in "im sick" or "i have an unhealthy lifestyle"?
fallow ledge
Sorry, you asked in german XD
bronze garnet
yeah maybe "Ich lebe ungesund"
languid warren
but on this app im using it made me write out "Ich bin nicht gesund"
bronze garnet
ungesund sein is more like if you get eaten youre not good for the health of whatever eats you
languid warren
I was wondering if thats how people actually say it
bronze garnet
ich bin nicht gesund is more like "im sick"
icy flax
Gruzi! Leute, das Wort "Investment", wie würdet ihr es auf Deutsch sagen?
Ich schaute mir ein Video auf Youtube, und eine Deutsche hat "paternal and maternal Investment" als "väterlicher und mütterlicher Einsatz" übersätzt.
Ich kannte nur "die Investition" und "die Anlage"
long whale
Ich kannte nur "die Investition" und "die Anlage"
@icy flax Those are correct when it's about money. For emotional investment, "Einsatz" seems a good translation. :)
buoyant coral
Ich lese ein Buch, das mir Janosch empfohlen hat
English translation I am reading a book that Janosch recommended to me
Is my translation correct?
crystal mural
Auf etw. folgen..after auf comes dat. or akk.?
celest frost
Archie, that looks good
fervent kernel
If I'm writing a Berichten, do I've to use prateritum in it? Is that a part of schreiben?
long whale
If I'm writing a Berichten, do I've to use prateritum in it? Is that a part of schreiben?
@fervent kernel Yup. Please note that the verb is "berichten", but the noun is "der Bericht". :)
fervent kernel
@long whale Hey you're back! Glad to see you again! 😄 And oops, I didn't know the noun so I wrote berichten
So I can't use perfeckt at all? All nouns have to be prateritum?
Oh sorry, verbs*
long whale
Yes, exactly. :D Thank you. Sorry about the broken promise - I really, really tried but couldn't manage.
@fervent kernel
I just double-checked, and yes, Präteritum is a requirement of a "Bericht". 🤷
fervent kernel
Keine Sorge! 😄 I'm just happy to see you back! I did credit learning zu-clause to you and Base in my Vortrag! My teacher was surprised how I had become better and I told her it was because two of my friends (you and base). So still thank you so much! 😄
Also, while writing das Bericht, what does the phrase "mir ging es so, dass ich.." mean..?
long whale
More context would help, but it roughly means "I felt like...". Please note that this is a perfect example of what should not be written in a "Bericht" - your personal feelings have no place in it. :) @fervent kernel
fervent kernel
@long whale Really? Omg, I was going to use it! So we should just use the information that's given to us and write about that from a third person perspective? Or would first person perspective also be alright?
Could you give a small example of the kind of sentence you'd use in a report please?
long whale
Check what they say about it in your book, but I'd highly recommend 3rd person perspective, like in a newspaper report.
Can you understand the following:
Ein Bericht muss im Aufbau und in der verwendeten Zeitform festgelegten Anforderungen genügen.
Der Text muss so aufgebaut sein, dass das Wichtigste am Anfang geschildert wird, die weniger wichtigen Details stehen umso weiter unten, je unwichtiger sie sind, auch die Vorgeschichte kann ein Bericht mit einbeziehen. Bei den Angaben, die enthalten sein müssen, muss sich der Verfasser an den sogenannten W-Fragen orientieren, das heißt, er muss darüber informieren, was stattgefunden hat, wann es stattgefunden hat, wo es sich abspielte, wer daran beteiligt war, wie es zum betreffenden Ereignis kam und warum es dazu kam.
?
fervent kernel
Ja, kind of I guess. Not fully though, especially some parts of the first two lines.
long whale
Example: "Der Unfall ereignete sich am 16. Mai 2020 in Berlin. Es gab keine Verletzten. Allerdings entstand beträchtlicher Sachschaden. Eine große Schaufensterscheibe ging zu Bruch."
The first 2 lines just say that a "Bericht" has to be written according to fixed requirements as to structure and tense. :)
@fervent kernel
fervent kernel
Aha, now I understood. I got the last part of that text where the reporter should mention important details about the event, where, when, those involved and so on. And now the first two lines too! 🙂
Yeah the example really helped, so it would be just like a news reporter then. Saying everything like they're watching it, only in prateritum right?
Awesome, thank you so much again! Really appreciate it. @long whale
Hope you've been well?
long whale
Yes, thank you. :) Um, just wondering - have you "done" passive already?
fervent kernel
Glad to hear! 😄 And nope not yet, or well it hasn't been formally introduced to me yet🤔
Unless this is passive then I have no idea..
long whale
Yes, that's passive in English. :D Oh, okay, don't worry then. I was just wondering because it often comes in handy for a Bericht, but if you haven't learnt about it, it doesn't matter. :)
fervent kernel
Oh wait, so passive is different in German and English? 😮 I didn't know that!
long whale
No, no, it works exactly the same way. :)
fervent kernel
Ah okay I see. I had a small heart attack for a moment there haha!
Also a kind of general question.. how do germans understand each other if they have a different dialect? This has been on my mind for a long time now, do they both speak Hochdeutsch then or something else?
long whale
Um, well, kids are taught Standard German at school.
knotty flax
The most people that speak a dialect can also speak the "normal" German (I think)
And here where I live the most people only say some words with a dialect
long whale
People may choose to speak their dialect, because they like it and/or are proud of it, and there might be the occasional word or expression which people from other parts wouldn't quite understand/know, but not to the extent where they'd have real problems communicating. :)
fervent kernel
Aha I see, thank you both for clarifying this to me! I really appreciate it! The thing is I might be (hopefully) going to germany later this year and I was slightly worried if I'd be able to speak with the people and/or understand them so yeah. This had me worried despite me doing B1, thinking it might not help if people spoke in dialects😅
knotty flax
I think dialects won't be a problem👍
fervent kernel
I do hope so, I'll end up making so many mistakes while talking I might embarrass myself😅
Worse, offend someone unintentionally. That'd be a nightmare.
I hope people are forgiving...
knotty flax
Where are you going to in Germany?
fervent kernel
Well I haven't decided exactly since I'm waiting for admits from universities. I got one from Dortmund so that might definitely be an option, I'm waiting for the rest like Freiburg, Südwestfalen and some others
We should shift to leben unterm dach right..?
fervent kernel
Another small doubt, how do I use modalverbs with prateritum? Like e.g with wollten?
"Sie wollte das wissen" still comes under prateritum?
fervent kernel
Ah I see, got it!
Thanks Primus!
I gotta get going now and finish this assignment, hopefully speak to you soon! 😄
knotty flax
Thanks Primus!
@fervent kernel no Problem
I gotta get going now and finish this assignment, hopefully speak to you soon! 😄
@fervent kernel yeah, hopefully
fervent kernel
Take care! 😄 @knotty flax
tulip tiger
Mein Vater indes schüttelte tief verzweifelt den Kopf, starrte...
was bedeutet indes hier?
jedoch?
knotty flax
Es ist eine Abkürzung für indessen = meanwhile
long whale
@tulip tiger Depending on context, indes/sen either signifies something happening at the same time (meanwhile), or it's a synonym for "but". I'd say in your case, you're right, it's "jedoch". :)
tulip tiger
Thanks!
worthy violet
The German word for “to”
I’ve seen it used as “zum” “zu” “auf”
I need clarification on how to use it
autumn sapphire
zum is nothing more than zu + dem.
worthy violet
Ohh ok
autumn sapphire
the english "to" has several different meanings, so another language will possibly translate them with separate terms instead of the same one for each
you can't translate word for word from one language to another, so rather than a word to translate "to", what you need is to learn the words used for different situations. The "to" in "I have to go" and the one in "I'm going to Mexico" have completely different meanings
worthy violet
Ich sehe
autumn sapphire
when it's about spatial motion (going somewhere), German uses different prepositions depending on the target. There's zu, but also auf, nach and in
the grammatical "to" for use between verbs is zu
worthy violet
I know about when to use zu and nach
Zu is when you’re already at the place
Nach is when you’re arriving
autumn sapphire
not quite
it's not about where you're at in the journey, it's about what sort of place the destination is
slender mirage
btw.: Ich sehe is a bit too literal in its translation. Ich verstehe sounds more natural, and a casual Ach so or Aha is also possible.
autumn sapphire
or well, i guess in some cases it does matter whether you're going or staying
nach Deutschland = to Germany
in Deutschland = in Germany
(as you can see the same difference exists in English)
worthy violet
Do you use im instead when the noun is feminine?
slender mirage
(It's just repetition and immersion, every day^^ Keep at it and challenge yourself.)
autumn sapphire
no, im is when you have in + dem
worthy violet
Ach
autumn sapphire
dem is the definite article, dative case, for neuter and masculine
look through >faq all in #botchannel, there are a couple FAQs about prepositions
slender mirage
Ich werde sounds somewhat incomplete, since it's transitive (I think), so (Das) werde ich (tun). would sound better^^
Most natives would just instinctively know how to abbreviate sentence like that, but the underlying reason is quite interesting.
worthy violet
Danke noch einmal XD
slender mirage
But don't quote me on the grammatical details^^
worthy violet
Kk
slender mirage
not quite sure if modal verbs can even be considered transitive at all
autumn sapphire
transitivity doesn't apply here because verbs aren't objects
in the grammatical sense
you can't say that in "ich werde es tun", "tun" is a direct object of werden
slender mirage
[Subject] [Modal Verb] [Direct Object] [Verb]. -> [Direct Object] [Modal Verb] [Subject] [Verb]
Ich werde das tun. -> Das werde ich tun.
etwas tun = to do sth. [acc.]
=> werde etwas tun = will do sth. [acc.]
Modal verbs aren't transitive, but to do sth. is.
wintry thistle
welche Adjektive würden sie benutzen, um das Wort "cheap" (wie Niedrige Qualität) zu übersetzen? Ist "billig" gut genug? Ich fand das Wort "minderwertig" und ich frage mich, ob dieses besser als "billig" ist
knotty flax
"billig" wird eher in der Alltagssprache verwendet und "minderwertig" ist relativ formal ausgedrückt
wintry thistle
Vielen Dank!
slender mirage
@wintry thistle billig conveys "cheap (low in price); inexpensive" - similar to günstig - or even "tacky; poor (e.g. joke, remark), cheesy, trashy, ...", while minderwertig literally translates to [lower-valued] and conveys a feeling of "inferior, substandard", in regards to quality, for example. Can even be used for humans, like in "inferiority complex" Minderwertigkeitskomplex.
tulip tiger
kann mir jemand das Wort Schwellenzeit erklären?
slender mirage
threshold period, apparently. Not exactly sure what it is about, though @tulip tiger
tulip tiger
den Kontext kann ich wiedergeben: War verflogen. Man war, so las man in Zeitungskommentaren, in eine Schwellenzeit getreten, deren Ende, wann immer es uns treffen mochte, nur eines bedeuten konnte: den Untergang der Welt, wie wir sie kannten
slender mirage
ah, seems to be a word for a time, when things one was used to doing won't work anymore, but new ways of doing things haven't been quite established yet. A transition period, has a certain negative quality to it. Or at least unsure, frustrated, wanting change, etc. Never really heard that word before, but I get a vague feeling of what was meant to be conveyed.
tulip tiger
so i better just ignore it?
slender mirage
The author dramatized it a bit, saying that the end of that transition period could only mean one thing: the end of world, as they knew it.
tulip tiger
i see, thanks for all the detalis! 🙂
slender mirage
Schwelle means threshhold, verge, brink, etc. but can even means doorstep. Conveys a feeling of passage, of change, into something else, which is apparently a time.
seems to be related to schwellen, which means to rise, or to swell, as if something swells out of some medium that is different from the norm.
tulip tiger
so it is a beautiful word with a lot of meanings 😄
slender mirage
it tries to paint an abstract picture. That's German for you 😉
Language of poets and thinkers, eh?^^
tulip tiger
yep
i have another question, how can you combine two adjectives?
like: eine auktorial göttliche Erzählperspektive
can you say auktorial-göttliche?
slender mirage
never used auktorial before
authorial = schriftstellerisch, auktorial and eines/des Autors
I would use the first or the last one, the second one is too technical, never even seen it before
fierce idol
We used it commonly in school when we talked about Erzählperspektiven
We = my teachers and books
slender mirage
die göttliche Erzählperspektive eines/des Autors (definite article, though)
eine schriftstellerisch-göttliche Erzählperspektive (maybe that is what you're looking for. Sounds unusual, but not wrong)
slender mirage
auktorial-göttliche Erzählperspektive is technically correct.
tulip tiger
okey, thanks! But is there a rule about how to combine the adjectives?
slender mirage
hyphen between them, ending only on the last, infinitely many possible
the first modifies the next and so on: red brown and brown red are not the same, per se
fierce idol
_2 Adjektive
2.1 unflektiertes Adjektiv + Adjektiv: Bei abstufender Bedeutung des ersten Adjektivs ist Getrennt- und Zusammenschreibung möglich: leicht verdaulich / leichtverdaulich, schwer erziehbar / schwererziehbar …
2.2 Wortverbindungen mit adjektivisch gebrauchten Partizipien: Auch bei diesen Verbindungen ist Getrennt- und Zusammenschreibung möglich, z. B.: allgemein bildend / allgemeinbildend, Fleisch fressend / fleischfressend, Hilfe suchend / hilfesuchend, klein gemustert / kleingemustert, selbst zahlend / selbstzahlend …
2.3 Substantiv + Adjektiv/Partizip: Diese Verbindungen werden immer dann nur zusammengeschrieben, wenn der erste Bestandteil verkürzt für eine Wortgruppe steht, z. B.: angsterfüllt (von Angst erfüllt), herzergreifend (das Herz ergreifend), hitzebeständig (bei Hitze beständig), kopfballstark (stark beim Kopfball), schreibgewandt (beim/im Schreiben gewandt) …_
Oh, the last one is unneeded
slender mirage
well, braunrot and rotbraun is correct, not the best example.
tulip tiger
i see, but here leicht verdaulich is not leicht-verdaulich
slender mirage
because it can be easily digested, they are connected
tulip tiger
so can i say diese schön-geschriebene Phrase?
slender mirage
auktorial and göttlich aren't really that connected
fierce idol
What do you mean Venutius? How are they different?
slender mirage
schöngeschriebene Phrase - a neatly written phrase [calligraphy]
fierce idol
Since you asked for rules I will post them as well
tulip tiger
so here the 2 words are written together
fierce idol
(or at least a place for where to read about it)
slender mirage
schön geschriebene Phrase - kinda conveys that the action of writing was neat, not the written result xD
fierce idol
slender mirage
there is something called Schönschrift, the example isn't the best for your question^^
fierce idol
Schrift is not really used as a verb at all, so I would say that's why 'schön Schrift' doesn't work
But yeah, as you said, it can be seen as an adverb in 'schön geschrieben'
slender mirage
but schönschreiben is a verb, because it is related to Schönschrift
it's not the same as schön schreiben
fierce idol
schönschreiben is a very special case I would say
cause there is no hässlichschreiben
not as a verb at least
tulip tiger
die absichtlich geschriebene Phrase shows that the Phrase was written with intention?
slender mirage
yes
tulip tiger
so here do i have to use the - between the 2 words?
slender mirage
but wasn't it about combining adjectives?
tulip tiger
oh absichtlich is not adjective
slender mirage
but geschrieben is a verb
tulip tiger
gut-geschrieben or gut geschrieben?
fierce idol
well, absichtlich can be an adjective, but in this case it isn't
slender mirage
lets just combine pure adjectives
let's pick to unrelated words - nass (wet) and trocken (dry)
"wet-dry" would be nass-trocken(e/er/es)
tulip tiger
so here is with this -?
slender mirage
yeah, because it's not about adding an adjective to a verb, but just combining to adjectives into one, instead of listing them.
fierce idol
I posted the exact rules above 
and the hyphen is not necessarily needed
*necessary
slender mirage
okay, hmm... nasstrocken would be technically okay.
fierce idol
Not in all cases I mean
Also if the first one's purpose is to make the 2nd one 'stronger' the hyphen is not allowed
like bitterkalt
tulip tiger
yes, i read that
tiefblau
so it should be no relation between the 2 adjectives
and the first one should not refer to the second one
geistig-kulturell
slender mirage
ah, so nass-trocken, would be correct, then?
tulip tiger
i guess so
fierce idol
I think so. Wait a sec
slender mirage
it's a fake/impossible word combining opposites, not sure if that counts as referring to each other^^ I would go with hyphens.
tulip tiger
i guess the rule is that: tiefblau, blau can be tief/tiefer
but trocken can not be nass, i guess
tulip tiger
nasskalt because both have similar meaning
fierce idol
I can quote actually
slender mirage
but only because something can be nass and kalt at the same time^^
fierce idol
_Die beiden Adjektive haben den gleichen Rang, das heißt, sie sind einander nebengeordnet.
dummdreist, feuchtwarm, nasskalt_
I'm not exactly sure what 'gleichen Rang' means here
slender mirage
yeah, too vague
tulip tiger
i guess that if you take arm und gesellig, you can write arm-gesellig
fierce idol
But there is a rule about it for 'schwer lesbare' Kombinationen
tulip tiger
it's so complicated 😄
slender mirage
arm-gesellig, if a hobo tries to get close to you? xD
tulip tiger
😂
fierce idol
_in unübersichtlichen oder sonst schlecht lesbaren Zusammensetzungen aus gleichrangigen Adjektiven wird ein Bindestrich gesetzt <§ 44>.
ZUM BEISPIEL
ein französisch-deutsches Wörterbuch
die medizinisch-technische Assistentin
geistig-kulturelle Strömungen_
Which is also a little bit subjective I assume
when exactly something is 'schlecht lesbar' or 'unübersichtlich'
But yeah, in most cases I personally would combine them and not write a hyphen
I edited this one twice to a different meaning, sorry
tulip tiger
😬
Thanks for the time and the help😀 😋
It's a little complicated, but I will read all the rules tomororw
slender mirage
down the rabbit hole ;D
tulip tiger
So maybe i'll get it
fierce idol
You don't really have to read all of them for this matter. I think it's D23 and D57-D62
and btw, this is something natives do wrong as well
I also learned something from this conversation here
tulip tiger
🤓 👍
slender mirage
and since you were involved in a debate about it, it should be easier to remember^^
forest tusk
is there a difference between using "weil" or "denn" to say 'because'?
plain umbra
@forest tusk In meaning, no. But they have different word order.
icy flax
@icy flax Those are correct when it's about money. For emotional investment, "Einsatz" seems a good translation. :)
@long whale Danke, susana!!
shell pecan
Ok 2 fragen
Wie kann man eine zeit zum minute sagen
Und was sind die Unterschieden zwischen questions und questions-2
autumn sapphire
forest tusk
Wie kann man eine zeit zum minute sagen
@shell pecan If you mean like 8:32, you would say "8 Uhr 32/acht Uhr zweiunddreißig"
hushed coyote
Was machst du gern in deiner Freizeit? should be gerne or gern e ?
autumn sapphire
both work and mean the same
hearty blaze
So, I just read about Accusative vs Nominative case and the passage I read talked about how word order is more flexible in german than in english because of the cases
the example was "Das Mädchen hat den Apfel" is the same as "Den Apfel hat das Mädchen"
the word order here doesn't matter because the "den" specifies the direct object
but masculine words are the only ones who's article changes in the accusative case
so, does word order still matter for all the other genders and plural versions?
for example
"Das Mädchen hat das Obst" isn't the same as "Das Obst hat das Mädchen" is it?
knotty flax
Not really. But I would say you only need the first examples ("Das Mädchen hat den Apfel" ; "Das Mädchen hat das Obst"). Sentences where the object and the subject are switched (like in "den Apfel hat das Mädchen") are really rare and almost never used in spoken language.
winged trench
What about for something like "Auf dem Tisch liegt eine Zeitung" and "Eine Zeitung liegt auf dem Tisch."
Is the subject first the more common phrasing? and the other just a stylistic choice?
knotty flax
Great question..actually it´s more commion to say the object first in this case...so when describe the table then "Tisch" is what your focus is on and that´s why it´s normally sayed whith the object first
so..it´s more common to put the subject first but if your focus is more on the object you can swich it with the subject
near folio
@winged trench Der erste Teil eines Satzes ist normalerweise das "Thema" (oder "topic" auf Englisch) und ist das, worüber gesprochen wird. Hier ist mehr Info:
calm kayak
What about for something like "Auf dem Tisch liegt eine Zeitung" and "Eine Zeitung liegt auf dem Tisch."
Is the subject first the more common phrasing? and the other just a stylistic choice?
@winged trench "Auf dem Tisch liegt eine Zeitung" is more common
loud nimbus
Could someone explain me what those concepts of ,,Familienplänung" and ,,Mehrheitsgesellschaft" mean?
long whale
"Familienplanung" means exactly the same as "family planning" = birth control (meaning you can plan when to have children and how many, if any). @loud nimbus
According to wikipedia, "Mehrheitsgesellschaft" means that part of a country's society which - by being in the majority - defines the country's cultural norms.
toxic fossil
may i ask is this question correct ?
welches Flugzeug in welcher Branche kann ich nach Deutschland nehmen?
ty in advance
toxic fossil
yea
bronze garnet
I would probably say "Welches Flugzeug mit welcher Airline kann ich nach Deutschland nehmen?" Airline can also be Fluggesellschaft/Fluglinie but Airline is common too
not sure if id put both Flugzeug and Airline in the question, its shorter to just ask "Welchen Flug kann ich nach Deutschland nehmen" if the context fits
toxic fossil
ty but the correct preposition here is mit rather in ?
dark swan
Yes.
bronze garnet
i think its "mit einer Airline fliegen"
toxic fossil
ahh ty guys
languid sun
Was ist der Unterschied zwischen ''allen voran' und ''vor allem'' ?
turbid mauve
Wie nennt man einen weiblichen Frosch?
languid sun
Ich bedanke mich voraus.
grim obsidian
first = erst oder zuerst
fervent kernel
Does ein also means First ?
@vivid walrus no
unique dune
fervent kernel
This is the First part of the word ,,einschalten" First comes ,,schalten" and At the end of the sentence comes ,,ein"
vivid walrus
Why is the word split up like that ?
wise pendant
Some words just do that. Similar to the word "to pick up" in english some words are just considered one word in german like for example "aufheben" consisting of the word root "heben" and a prefix "auf".
"Einschalten" would be "to turn on" in english and as you might see the english verb also consists of two separate words "turn" as the word root and "on" as an auxiliary word, which changes or alters the meaning of "to turn"
long whale
Wie nennt man einen weiblichen Frosch?
@turbid mauve "weiblicher Frosch". 🤷 Or, if it's already clear from context you're talking about frogs, "das Weibchen". :)
Was ist der Unterschied zwischen ''allen voran' und ''vor allem'' ?
@languid sun "allen voran" - first of all; "vor allem" - mainly, I'd say. :)
wintry flower
Fröschin 😂
fervent kernel
"Die Limf-Drizen und Limf-Gefem [Gefem is "limb" in Hebrew, so perhaps...?] von menschlichen Kerper in dem Rump vert nor gewisen die Oyberplachliche Gefem. In die Aremm/Arems und Fiss weren auch gewisen die Tifere gepessen (in Roit). (Seht zeite 35)."
Can you guys identify what is the text about?
Source: a Medicine book.
It's right on a page that talks about veins, or at least it's what it looks like.
past rivet
Limf - Lymph maybe?
fervent kernel
That could be it, yes!
past rivet
Yeah looks like it
delicate tiger
@fervent kernel Lymphdrüse(n) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lymph_node
fervent kernel
@delicate tiger Thanks! Can you make sense of the rest of the text?
Looks like it is indeed talking about the Lymphatic system
past rivet
Gefäß = Gefem perhaps? It's repeated a lot in the article
bright kraken
Whats the difference between “wurden” and “waren”?
icy flax
Leute, was bedeutet "Die Autoren übernehmen Gewähr für den Inhalt"? Soll das meinen, dass die Autoren die Verantwortlichkeit für den Inhalt übernehmen? Ich hab nie sowas gelesen. "Gewähr für etw. übernehmen". Ist das herkömmliche Sprache?
Whats the difference between “wurden” and “waren”
@bright kraken Hello, Eray!
wurden comes from "werden". [to become]-{werden, wurde, geworden} or, alternatively, [auxiliar verb to action-passiv]-{werden, wurde, worden}
waren comes from "sein". [to be]-{sein, war, gewesen} or, alternatively, [auxiliar verb to state-passive]-{sein, war, gewesen}
Ich brauchte viel Zeit, um der Unterschied zu verstehen, aber du wirst nicht viel Zeit brauchen:
Die Leute wurden vom Ungeheuer gegessen
The people were eaten by the monster. (here it is about the action, they WERE eaten.)
Die Leute waren vom Ungeheuer gegessen
The people had been (already) eaten by the monster. (here it is about the state of the people, not about the action of the monster eating them.)
long whale
Leute, was bedeutet "Die Autoren übernehmen Gewähr für den Inhalt"? Soll das
meinenheißen, dass die Autoren die Verantwortung für den Inhalt übernehmen? Ich hab nie sowas gelesen. "Gewähr für etw. übernehmen". Ist das herkömmliche Sprache?
@icy flax Yes, it does mean the authors are liable for the content, and it's a common term in German legalese. ;)
BTW, in case you're interested, we'd usually use "fressen" with monsters, otherwise it makes us think the monster had good table manners and used a knife and a fork to eat people. ;)
icy flax
hahaha
long whale
And, um, no offense, but "essen" or "fressen" is not the best verb to choose as an example for stative passive in German, since we'd use "sind/waren aufgegessen/aufgefressen", or we'd say "sind/waren gegessen/gefressen worden". :)
bright kraken
@icy flax thanks!
icy flax
And, um, no offense, but "essen" or "fressen" is not the best verb to choose as an example for stative passive in German, since we'd use "sind/waren aufgegessen/aufgefressen", or we'd say "sind/waren gegessen/gefressen worden". :)
@long whale Mhh.. Ja, okay, danke dir, ich kenne das Wort fressen, und natürlich auch auf-fressen/essen. Es hat mir nicht eingefallen, sie zu verwenden. Die Bespiele dienten eher dem Konzept als irgendwas anderen
Ich verstehe wie sie beide da besser klingen würden. C:
eat up sounds better indeed!
@icy flax thanks!
@bright kraken You're welcome, take a look on Susana corrections, tho. She/he made some considerations on the words picked for the example.
fervent kernel
Is passive usually combining werden and past participle, like „ich werde beschuldigt“?
pale moat
as i understand it, yes
thorn pelican
the two normal passives are built with a conjugation of werden or sein plus the past participle
E.g. Er wird verletzt. - passive 
Er ist verletzt. - also passive
the first is vorgangspassiv and the second is zustandspassiv
and these of course can be conjugated to match tense
e.g. wurde verletzt and war verletzt
fervent kernel
Thanks :‘D
thorn pelican
the lingolia page gives a decent rundown of the basics:
https://deutsch.lingolia.com/en/grammar/verbs/passive
fervent kernel
I've actually read it, but I was not sure about how it works by that time
waxen snow
What's the meaning of Kissenpuper?
My book says its another word for civil servants but I don't seem to get where it's coming from
Looks something like pillow shitter but why would it be called like that 🤔
calm kayak
it means something like "kid" ig
long whale
It's usually "Sesselpupser" (https://www.dw.com/de/der-sesselpupser/a-18389298). Somebody who farts into his armchair (Sessel) or into cushions (Kissen) a lot, obviously has a cosy office job (and/or is quite lazy), that's why you got "civil servant" as a synonym. :D
@waxen snow
waxen snow
Ahhh I see
bronze sonnet
I feel like I’m absolutely getting nowhere with learning German. What can I do other than Duolingo to improve my German?
autumn sapphire
faq beginner
stoic mauveBOT
bronze sonnet
Okay thank you
wanton latch
Hallo, is the expression "ich ziehe vor das Grillfleisch, den Pão-de-queijo und die Brigadeiros gegenüber dem Plokkari." gramatically correct?
long whale
Word order: "vor" needs to move to the end of the sentence. And "gegenüber" is both unneccessary and unidiomatic. Otherwise, it's fine. :) @wanton latch
wanton latch
Dankeschön @long whale 🙂
fervent kernel
😋 🤤
stable pawn
English has a construction of "to be to [verb]" meaning "to be supposed to, should, must"... for example, "You are to do your homework" == "you should/must/ do your homework".
I'm guessing that this doesn't work in German. How do you achieve this effect in German?
long whale
Mm... Depends. It kind of works, but only in impersonal sentences, as in "Der Arbeitsplatz ist sauberzuhalten" (the work station is to be kept clean), "Der Aufsatz ist in 2 Wochen abzugeben" (the essay is to be handed in in 2 weeks). For your sentences, if you don't want to use a modal verb, you could use "etwas zu tun haben": "Du hast deine Hausaufgaben zu machen", "Du hast pünktlich zu sein" (You are to be/arrive on time). Please note that "etwas zu tun haben" has another meaning, namely "to be busy": Kannst Du mir helfen? (Can you help me?) - Nein, ich habe zu tun (No, I'm busy). :)
@stable pawn
knotty flax
"In Anbetracht der Absicht dieses Aufsatzes... "würde ich sagen
ich google das kurz nach
calm kayak
meinetwegen 
tulip tiger
hinsichtlich der Absicht should also work
buoyant coral
Ich wünsche mir einen Mann, mit dem ich durch mein Leben gehe.
How would you break this into a main and relative clause?
sly ferry
@buoyant coral not sure what you mean, the part before the comma is the main clause and the other the relative clause
calm kayak
@knotty flax @calm kayak Danke schön!
@bronze shuttle Gerne
buoyant coral
Oh hold on I meant
How would you put them into two individual sentences?
Or how would you turn the relative into a main clause?
@sly ferry
knotty flax
"Ich gehe mit dem Mann durch mein Leben." would be an option I guess
buoyant coral
Ah thank you Leon!
buoyant coral
"Ich wünsche mir einen Mann, mit dem ich durch mein Leben gehe." The relative pronoun dem is reflecting on mit jmdm. gehen right? Not just gehe?
buoyant coral
ach so danke susana!
warm knot
In meinen freizeit surfe im internet. Is ich needed in this sentence?
warm knot
Ohh danke sehr schön
fervent kernel
Im a beginner to learning German and i was wondering if there is any thing i should start of with?
delicate tiger
@fervent kernel ">faq beginner" in #botchannel
hearty blaze
Recently, I have come across the sentence "Welches Gemüse magst du gern?". But I thought gern was only used in conjunction with verbs z.B. "Ich mache gern Sport" and mag could be used with a verb or object z.B. "Er mag Musik" or "Er mag Musik hören". So this new sentence confuses me in that it uses both in the same sentence. If I were to write this sentence, I would say "Welches Gemüse magst du?". So what does it mean when you add "gern"? Is it only adding emphasis? As in "Which vegetables do you like like?"
fringe goblet
Yes, it is basically adding emphasis.
It's like adding "much" to the sentence.
Also if you're asking the opposite:
"Welches Gemüse magst du nicht so gerne?"
Is suddenly very different from "Welches Gemüse magst du nicht?"
hearty blaze
so "Welches Gemüse magst du nicht so gerne?" = What vegetables do you not like so much
verses "Welches Gemüse magst du nicht?" = What vegetables do you not like?
knotty flax
Correct
fervent kernel
Gibt es lustige Texte auf Deutsch, die man für die Verbesserung der Aussprache benutzt?
fallow ledge
@fervent kernel sie sind nicht besonders lustig, aber es gibt Texte in #study-tasks, die gepostet worden sind, damit wir unsere Aussprache verbessern können
fervent kernel
@fallow ledge nett von dir. Vielen lieben Dank!
A small doubt
Ich habe mich dazu entscheiden. (or) Ich habe mich darauf entscheiden. ?
bronze garnet
dazu entschieden
fervent kernel
Ah, I see. Dankeschön.
Also, are there other Redemittels I can use other than ich finde, ich denke, ich glaube, meiner Meinung nach.. that I can use in both sprechen and schreiben to express my opinion? Or are these all?
tidal sedge
"wenn du mich fragst"
"aus meiner sicht"
fervent kernel
Ah I see, thank you. 🙂
white scarab
meines Erachtens, meines Wissens
protip, don't put nach after it, if you see it being done its grammatically wrong
tidal sedge
in meinen Augen
für mein Empfinden
meines Ermessens
meiner Einschätzung nach
white scarab
aus meiner sicht
soweit ich erkennen kann
uhh, what else
meiner ansicht nach
capitalize what needs to be capitalised tho
tidal sedge
Vahti do u want a synonym battle now
white scarab
nah, couldn't really care less :')
tidal sedge
why so toxic
white scarab
it's not toxic, 10 or so is more than enough 🤷
tidal sedge
well i just jokingly asked if u want a battle because we both were writing a lot of synonyms and u come back with a "couldnr care less :')." which is considered a relatively negative and toxic answer
white scarab
i also put an emote there for you to not take it too seriously, over and out :')
tidal sedge
Well, if your intention for the emote was to make it less serious, then we both seem to have very different interpretations of emote
knotty flax
*Wie geht`s
knotty flax
Yes, both of them
dry lava
hmm
knotty flax
And both are informal(!)
knotty flax
"Wie geht es dir" is pretty much the same as "Wie geht´s" - really formal would be: "Wie geht es Ihnen?"
dry lava
ah, politeness
So Was geht ab is not like "What's up", which is pronounced not only by teenagers
knotty flax
So Was geht ab is not like "What's up", which is pronounced not only by teenagers
@dry lava It means the same but ... well ... it is more like a slang used by teenagers
dry lava
And the answer on "Was geht ab" can be, "nicht viel", right?
knotty flax
Right
dry lava
Like in English "Not much" for "What's up"
Okay, fine
Also, do you use "Was gibt's Neues"?
knotty flax
Yes...but more often like a "normal" question not as the beginning of conversation
dry lava
gotcha, thanks
knotty flax
np
knotty flax
bei
knotty flax
Yeah....depends on how you are related to that friend
dry lava
What about Kumple?
Kumpel
Like... DUDE
Pretty important word, tbh
Is it used, in the first place?
knotty flax
Kumpel is better " Alter " isn´t really used like a name (How are you, dude = wie geht es dir, Alter) its more like in "Dude! That was close!" = "Alter! Das war knapp"
Is it used, in the first place?
@dry lava hm...it´s used like "friend"
dry lava
Okay. Alles klar. Danke, Alter!
knotty flax
😆 Gerne
dry lava
Because I can't always address to people using Mann
So I was wondering if you have "dude" in German
past rivet
Gibt es ein unregelmäßiges Verb im Konjunktiv 1 außer "sein"?
icy flax
Hey, guys! How would you say "the post service is taking longer than usual"?
delicate tiger
"Die Post braucht [im Moment] länger als üblich"
icy flax
Danke!
wanton latch
Hallo, is "6 Uhr Abends" a good translation for 6PM, or is there a better option?
delicate tiger
18 Uhr (gesprochen), 18:00 (geschrieben)
proven sphinx
Yeah, you use the 24-hour-clock here, but if you're speaking colloquially, I guess you do say "um 6 Uhr abends".
long whale
I wouldn't say "6 Uhr abends" was in any way colloquial... :)
proven sphinx
Oder einfach "um sechs".
Wir treffen uns um sechs.
Yeah, I get what you mean, Susana.
Colloquially, you'd just say "um sechs" and assume the person knows you mean 6 PM and not 6 AM. Kek.
proven sphinx
Yeah, it means the mail service isn't working at full capacity.
long whale
Ist "beschränkter Postdienst" und "eingeschränkter Postdienst" das gleiche?
@icy flax Er, no. The adjective "beschränkt" means "stupid" (intellectually limited), "eingeschränkt" means "limited". ;) (There's the verb "beschränken" (to limit), though, and the 3rd person singular, "beschränkt" just means "he/she/it limits")
fervent kernel
hi guys, how important is it to include article endings in spoken german? i seem to always hear (or well not hear :p) male akkusativ endings. eg wo ist meinen stift -> wo ist mein stift
knotty flax
"wo ist meinen Stift" is incorrect and "wo ist mein Stift" is the correct version so I guess that's why you didn't hear the en there
But it is very common to pronounce the "meinen" more Like "mein"
plain umbra
The verb "sein" (ist) is a bit of an exception. It takes nominative on both sides. @fervent kernel
fervent kernel
oh noooooooo LOL so embarassing but thank you very much @knotty flax @plain umbra
i guess a better exam,ple would have been hast du meinen stift 😆
plain umbra
If you're talking about how people speak it, then it's probably just that your ears aren't trained yet enough to hear the difference. Usually mein and meinen are pronounced differently, but really similarly, like Leon said.
knotty flax
Correct I were about to say that too....there is a little difference but its really hard ro discribe
fervent kernel
yeah makes sense, i was more worried about how i sound when saying it. cos currently... i go for example "ich hätt gern ein burger bitte" instead of einen burger
which im not sure if it sounds right/bad/whatever
knotty flax
In this case its definitly ok but try to pronounce that "einen" really Like it's meant to be pronounced
fervent kernel
HAHHA yup sure
knotty flax
👍
fervent kernel
thanks for the help!
knotty flax
Np
pure spade
hello can someone tell me when i shall use Haben and when shall i use Sein at perfect past
(haben/sein + ge-+ verb at infinive or 3rd person conjugation)
long whale
It's called Perfekt. ;) Verbs of movement usually require "sein": gehen, kommen, fliegen, landen, klettern (to climb), etc. Also, a few other verbs need "sein" (which are often called verbs for changing state, as in "sterben" (to die), "aufwachen" (to wake up), "einschlafen" (to go to sleep), but also "bleiben" (to remain). Here's a list of important verbs: https://deutschegrammatik20.de/deutsche-grammatik-inhaltsverzeichnis/grammatiklisten/liste-verben-die-das-perfekt-mit-sein-bilden/
pure spade
danke schon ^^
long whale
*schoen/schön (the dots are not purely decorative; "schon" is a different word) :)
Bitte sehr. :)
@pure spade
pure spade
all right 🙂
autumn sapphire
faq german letters
stoic mauveBOT
autumn sapphire
@pure spade
pure spade
ok
fallow ledge
hallo! ist das hier ein gültiger Satz?
Bevor du bei mir vorbeikam, war ich im Begriff dich anzurufen.
ich möchte etwas sagen wie: before you came over i was just about to call you
delicate tiger
*vorbeikamst
fallow ledge
ach mensch so grundlegend, wie konnte ich das vergessen
heady sorrel
Do you have a way in German to say "I can't be bothered"
ie a verb or phrase that means you don't do something just because you're kind of lazy
fervent kernel
juckt mich net
long whale
Ich kann mich nicht dazu aufraffen, darüber nachzudenken. ;) @heady sorrel
past rivet
Can I replace a "zu" clause with a "dazu" construction?
Ich fange (es?) an, das Essen zu essen./Ich fange dazu an, das Essen essen.
stable pawn
Gibt's einen Unterschied zwischen genügen und reichen? Ich weiß, sie sind ja ganz ähnlich, aber ist eines dieser Wörter umgangssprachlicher oder sowas als das andere? Vielen Dank, Ich freu mich so sehr Ihre Antworten zu lesen!
long whale
We use "reichen" far more often than the verb "genügen". What we do use synonymously with "reichen" is "genug haben/sein. E.g. "I'm fed up" = Mir reicht es/Ich habe genug. "This is not enough food for 10 people" = Das Essen reicht nicht für 10 Personen/Es ist nicht genug für 10 Personen. :) @stable pawn
stable pawn
Ah, das ist sehr hilfreich!!
cobalt ocean
what is better using the preterit or the perfect with sprechen
pale path
Ich fange dazu an, das Essen essen.
no @past rivet
past rivet
Thanks!
compact mountain
does Gut, danke. und ihnen mean I'm fine thank you and you? or is there another way to say that?
bronze sonnet
hej hej
fathom inlet
What's Unterkommen ?
there are a lot of meanings on google and I'm not sure which is the most used.
tired trail
Does anyone know a good YouTube channel to start learning from scratch?
Or a podcast on Apple Music?
Or app? Lol
bronze sonnet
Duolingo
Hello talk also give a simmilar experience to this discord server with the ability to talk to natives/learners and whatnot
plain umbra
faq nicos
stoic mauveBOT
plain umbra
You might find this useful. @tired trail
And in our resource list, there are videos, podcasts, etc.
tired trail
Thanks 🙂 ❤️
hearty blaze
I am a bit confused about the difference between Der Mantel and Die Jacke. I have a few pictures (four), am I allowed to post them here? Because I'm not quite sure how to categorize them >.<
calm kayak
Jacke -> jacket
Mantel -> coat
long whale
die Jacke - think suit jacket (rather short) vs. der Mantel - coat (comes down to your knees or below) :)
hearty blaze
Yes, I know the translations, but coat and jacket, at least where I live aren't that different. As I understand it, Mantel and Jacke are distinct in germany or is this not so?
die Jacke - think suit jacket (rather short) vs. der Mantel - coat (comes down to your knees or below) :)
@long whale Ohh, okay this helps actually thank you
calm kayak
A coat is longer than a jacket
long whale
Yes, they are pretty different. If a businessman is wearing a suit in winter, he might wear a coat on top of this.
fervent kernel
I understand a Jacket implies like a suit type Jacket, while a coat is the long one you wear in the winter.
long whale
Well, there are also light summer coats and/or rain coats. 🤷
fervent kernel
True, I'm currently sitting in Allgemein and I have little to no clue what they're saying >_<
long whale
der Sommermantel, der Regenmantel
calm kayak
Yes
hearty blaze
Okay thanks!
woven phoenix
to say fall over in german would you just use hinfallen?
like he fell over
the bottle fell over
pale path
@woven phoenix yes, but for things it's more idiomatic to use umfallen
hinfallen is mostly used for persons, correct me if I'm wrong
knotty flax
That's absolutely correct
woven phoenix
Thanks guys! I appreciate it!
oh but if a person or an object just fell it would fallen?
"fallen"
long whale
No, it's very different from English. "Mein Onkel ist im Krieg gefallen" = "My uncle was killed in the war"
woven phoenix
oh so it's like a more finite falling like die Mauer ist gefallen. never to rise again???
long whale
Otherwise, we mostly use it with "von" to say "fall off (of) something", as in "Er ist von der Brücke gefallen" (he fell off the bridge)
@woven phoenix
long whale
Oh, there is one other instance where we use "fallen" without saying what it fell off or out of: der/die Würfel ist/sind gefallen (both literally and figuratively) = the die is cast :) @woven phoenix
woven phoenix
ooooo tanx for the secret cultural tip!
red wraith
faq keyboard
stoic mauveBOT
wanton latch
"Welches ist das beste Reiseziel?" is this expression correct? im trying to say "which one is the best destination?"
cobalt ocean
do you have to say Ich weiß wie man schwimmt or could you say Ich weiß schwimmen
quiet salmon
Usually you just say can “ich kann schwimmen. Ich kann Deutsch sprechen....” more like “able to”
The first one technically is correct, but it’s super technical. I believe it’s like saying “I know how one swims” technically correct, but kinda awkward. The second is just wrong.
past rivet
Is "Zucker in den Kaffee geben" an idiom?
fervent kernel
Do the verbs and adjectives change within the cases?
fervent kernel
manic jetty
give me an example
fervent kernel
Lol I'm trying to learn the grammar first
manic jetty
sure but i cant explain to you what is dativ and what is akkusativ
but i can give you the answer if you give me an example
in english
fervent kernel
Okay
manic jetty
or in other words what would the cases look like in english
fervent kernel
I'll think of one. Might take some time. I'll ping you. Vielen dank.
manic jetty
Der Junge gibt dem Vater einen Apfel
its 3. Fall
but i cant use the same sentence with other Fälle i think
so im not sure what you are looking for
fervent kernel
Accusative is the target
tardy carbon
no, this does not help alya
fervent kernel
Normative is the object
bitter saffron
Sad:c
fervent kernel
Gentative is the owner
tardy carbon
this method does not help learners because it only works if you already have enough intuition to actually use the cases correctly
fervent kernel
And dat is the instrument
tardy carbon
C-O this is all pretty wrong
fervent kernel
Oh
tardy carbon
nominative is not the object, it’s the subject, the thing/person doing the action
accusative is the object, the thing/person being affected by the action
dative is not the instrument but usually the recipient of some directed action (also called the indirect object)
genitive being the owner is correct
tardy carbon
often that works quite well yes
also mind that with prepositions all this gets thrown right out the window
tardy carbon
giving something to someone is dativ
fervent kernel
So do the verbs/noun change? Or just the 'prepositions?
tardy carbon
prepositions do not change
manic jetty
just prepositions
fervent kernel
For different cases
manic jetty
they change for every case
tardy carbon
no
tardy carbon
those are not prepositions
fervent kernel
manic jetty
oh my bad
fervent kernel
Oh sorry
tardy carbon
prepositions are words like ‘in’, ‘mit’, ‘unter’
manic jetty
C-O what do you mean in that case
fervent kernel
So apart from the/a/my/he/she etc and connection words (preposition) the nouns don't change?
And the verbs?
manic jetty
nouns stay the same
tardy carbon
for the most part, nouns don’t change for case (they do a bit, often the genitive is different for exmaple)
manic jetty
except
tardy carbon
case does not apply to verbs
tardy carbon
for the most part, masculine nouns have a different genitive
while neuter and feminine nouns don’t
I’m not sure how accurate that rule of thumb is though
manic jetty
to be honest
if you wanna speak german
just for being able to communicate i mean
if you goal is not making money with translations or similar things
just dont give a sh'' about grammar like that
there are more important things to learn
tardy carbon
I do not think that is good advice
manic jetty
noone will bother when he speaks broken english
tardy carbon
unlearning mistakes is harder than learning things properly
manic jetty
everyone will understand
tardy carbon
so if the goal is to ultimately speak properly, learning things wrong at first is a horrible idea
if the goal is to just be able to read german books and order pizza in german, sure
manic jetty
youd be better of learning vocabulary as it is and then proceed to learning proper grammar at the point you can actually say what you think
tardy carbon
but it really depends on the goals
tardy carbon
and at least being aware of what is correct is important imo
fervent kernel
So it seems that genetitive plurals of nouns have an s on them if the plural ends with -en
manic jetty
i talk with foreigners who speak weeks or months worth of german all the time and i understand them just fine and dont give a damn about them making mistakes with der die das ein eine etc
tardy carbon
genitive endings are in general not predictable
plain umbra
You definitely should get a solid foundation in grammar no matter if you're learning for the purpose of speaking or writing.
If you personally choose not to learn grammar, that is your own choice and your own problem.
But recommending people to avoid grammar is a terrible thing to do.
manic jetty
You definitely should get a solid foundation in vocabulary since this will help you so much more actually reading stuff
plain umbra
You need vocabulary and grammar, yes. You definitely need both.
manic jetty
and from there on you get a ton of examples for proper prepositions and articles
vocabulary >>>>>>>> grammar
fervent kernel
I love learn vocab but I'm afraid if I don't learn the grammar then I will just learn the vocab if you know what I mean
manic jetty
that easy
i remember how i learned english
i got myself a book (game of thrones, pretty hard to read for someone bad in english) and i just started reading and looking up words
was done with it in no time and speaking it fluently now.. well after years it is now
just my thoughts
tardy carbon
there are things in german grammar that I’d be surprised if a second language learner could pick them up properly from just input
plain umbra
@manic jetty I'm not going to argue with this about this. Do not tell people on this server to avoid grammar. It's very damaging to the learning process and we heavily discourage misinformation and harmful advice aimed at learners.
tardy carbon
pretty much every learner who hasn’t explicitly studied them a bunch makes mistakes with adjective endings, even if they’re otherwise advanced, for example
fervent kernel
I'm learning pronouncation above anything. Thankfully German is quite easy to say compared to French
manic jetty
whats the point of knowing any grammar if you dont know what the actual words mean
fervent kernel
Because it's an intellectual challenge
plain umbra
As I said, both vocabulary and grammar are essential. You need both.
tardy carbon
rebexus, you’re misconstruing base’s argument
manic jetty
like you can read an article or book just fine without any major grammar knowledge
tardy carbon
of course learning grammar without knowing vocabulary is stupid
manic jetty
and youll get what the book wants to tell you approximately
people learn languages over the course of years if not decades
you'd be best of just reading stuff, watching movies, translating songs etc
tardy carbon
and the people who ignore grammar during that time are usually those who speak the language with a lot of mistakes that they can’t get rid of anymore cause they fossilized wrong things
fierce idol
Let's put this discussion elsewhere, Rebexus. I suggest #general-2
plain umbra
Good idea, Bulli.
manic jetty
im not saying ignore grammar and just talk nouns and adjectives but taking weeks or months to learn grammar is just a waste of time
but thats just how it works for me best, read stuff, watch movies, play games in the language you wanna know
white scarab
im not saying ignore grammar and just talk nouns and adjectives but taking weeks or months to learn grammar is just a waste of time
thats a horrible idea and i know lots of people who did that, they ended up speaking horrible monkey german they can't fix anymore because of all the wrong habits
it works great if you want to be forever A2/B1
or if you want to speak language with very limited flexion like english
waxen snow
I do think it's a great idea to ignore grammar if you are starting out with a language
If you can get to conversational fluency first and then look at grammar
fervent kernel
Grammar Nazis here?
near folio
könnt ihr bitte diese Unterhaltung in #general-2 fortfahren?
@fervent kernel wie Sascha gesagt hat, muss man die Genetivendungen von Wörtern auswendig lernen, aber es gibt tatsächlich ein paar Regeln, auf die man sich meistens verlassen kann:
hier sind mehr Regeln:
fervent kernel
@near folio Tysm
hearty blaze
I tried to translate "This soup is really clear" to "Diese Suppe ist so klar" which was marked incorrect. The correct translation being "Diese Suppe ist wirklich klar"
What exactly is the difference between "so" and "wirklich"?
is "Das ist so gut!" grammatically correct?
tardy carbon
in this context, the difference is pretty much identical to english “so” and “really”
so here indicates surprise
it’s not ungrammatical at all, probably just the wrong nuance for what was asked for
hearty blaze
thank you, also is there any difference in meaning between saying "Ich komme wieder" and "Ich komme zurück"?
'wieder' roughly means 'again' right? So is the first sentence more like, 'I'll come again'? And is the second more like in the context of when someone needs to go back for something?
long whale
I'd say there's no difference in meaning between the two. The 2nd one is definitely not about going back for sth, since that would have to be "Ich gehe [nochmal] zurück" (just like in English). The only thing is that in everyday German, "Ich komme zurück" is just a little bit unidiomatic. We usually say "Ich komme [gleich] wieder" or "Ich bin gleich wieder da" or "Ich bin gleich zurück" (I'll be back in a minute/moment). Of course, the latter 2 would mean something different without "gleich" (i.e. I'm back). :)
@hearty blaze
dire finch
Hello, is this sentence grammatically correct, and even if it is, is it weird?
Letzte Woche habe ich mich mit meinen Freunden getroffen. Anders als das, ich trainert und Videospiele gespielt habe . Ich habe Spanische, Portugiesische und Italienische Gespräche gehört. Weil ich Romanische Sprachen lernen möchte. Ich habe fertig "Mein Name ist Rot" von Orhan Pamuk gelesen.
I'm having a hard time with past and try to avoid it almost everytime
past rivet
I'm not sure about these, but they may be helpful:
Anders als das -> ansonsten, sonst?
trainert -> trainierte
I guess you should write "Spanische, Romanische" etc. in lower-case because they are adjectives.
Maybe connect "weil" to the previous sentence?
fertig -> gerade?
dire finch
this is helpful, thanks
bronze garnet
i would change anders als das to "außerdem". Word order needs to change a bit to "Außerdem habe ich trainiert und Videospiele gespielt"
dire finch
I guess I need to hear German spoken more often
long whale
Kind. :) More or less the same difference as between "the child hears" and "the child listens". @fervent kernel
fervent kernel
Oh so Zu suggest more active?
long whale
I guess. :)
autumn sapphire
and the first one is not a complete sentence without an object
sharp acorn
hören is transitive which means it needs an object
zuhören is intransitive which means it doesnt need an object tobe correct
hearty blaze
Is 'eueren' just as correct as 'euren' in the sentence 'Ich mag euren Schmuck' ? I was looking at this website with all the possessive pronoun declensions and they had "eu(e)ren" written. Which sounds like both work, is one more often used than the other?
knotty flax
"eueren" doesn't exist.
hearty blaze
I see, thank you
knotty flax
Np
hearty blaze
"Ich weiß das" and "Ich kenne das". The translation I found says they both mean "I know that" which sounds to me like you know some piece of knowledge. But I thought 'kennen' was more like 'familiar with', as in I am familiar with this person or thing. Is this a more accurate translation or am I mistaken?
sly ferry
ex wissen vs. kennen
stoic mauveBOT
sly ferry
@hearty blaze ^
hearty blaze
Thank you!
hearty blaze
"I see your child", Duolingo says this is "Ich sehe euer Kind". Why isn't it "Ich sehe eures Kind"? Doesn't "euer" need to be conjugated to the Accusative neutral form?
thorn pelican
possesives decline the same as ein does.
Ich sehe ein Kind
ich sehe euer Kind
Ich sehe sein Kind
thorn pelican
But it would be ich sehe euer kleines Kind
fleet vigil
yes
thorn pelican
whoops on the last one there
which this page focuses on adjective endings it also shows articles and a couple other uelpful things
http://esl.fis.edu/learners/fis/german/kasus/caseTables.htm
hearty blaze
Thanks! @thorn pelican
Wait, @thorn pelican this table confuses me. The only reference I see for possessive pronouns is under the Indefinite article section where euer would be declined to eures. Where does this table show the correct conjugation for this sentence? ("I see your child")
thorn pelican
the possesive pronoun replaces the article not the adjective
so ein Mann becomes sein Mann
and eines Mannes becomes ihres Mannes
hearty blaze
the possesive pronoun replaces the article not the adjective
Sorry I don't understand what this functionally means
as in what does this tell me about how I'm supposed to conjugate?
thorn pelican
so ein schöner Mann, mein schöner Mann.
eines schönen Mannes, meines schönen Mannes
you change the pronoun to mimic the indefinite article
hearty blaze
ohhhh, okay that helps! Thank you so much!
thorn pelican
no worries!
fervent kernel
I've only recently come across Sie. Does it follow most of the rules with they(sie)?
plain umbra
Yes, all the grammar is the same for Sie (formal you) and sie (they), except for the capitalization rule.
fervent kernel
@plain umbra great!
cobalt smelt
What does the expression Fit wie ein Turnschuh. mean?
delicate tiger
fervent kernel
Hello everyone! Is anyone here willing to help me?
autumn sapphire
fleet vigil
What does the expression
Fit wie ein Turnschuh.mean?
@cobalt smelt To be very fit.
past rivet
Why is "geben" used in "Zucker in den Kaffee geben"? Is it an idiom or an actual meaning of the verb?
sly ferry
etwas in etwas hinein geben is simply to put something in something
It's mostly used in the food context I guess
I'm not sure if there's a rule to it but I think it has to be either pourable or abstract 🤔
past rivet
Ah, so was "hinein" actually dropped in the sentence?
autumn sapphire
i've seen it most often without hinein
it's absolutely commonplace on serving recommendations on food packages for example
past rivet
I see, thank you both really
past rivet
"Nun hat einer/man einen/welchen." I thought
long whale
@fervent kernel I guess the point they're trying to make is, there are, um, 9 possible ways of translating this, since both the 1st and the 2nd "one" may be masculine, feminine or neuter. 🤷
fervent kernel
Interesting
fervent kernel
Hallo, ich habe eine Frage. Also angenommen, dass eines Tages ich einen Burger in Burger King in Deutschland kaufen wollte. Also ich würde einen Fisch Fillet Burger bestellen. Aber wenn ich keine Zwiebel in meinem Burger möchte, was soll ich sagen..
"Hallo, Fisch Fillet einmal, aber ohne Zwiebel." Klingt okay?
delicate tiger
ohne Zwiebeln*
fervent kernel
ohne Zwiebeln*
@delicate tiger
Danke! Und noch eine Frage, welche klingt besser? Ich möchte einen Fisch Fillet Burger, oder Fisch Fillet einmal?
ember mason
"Ich möchte einen Fisch Fillet Burger" oder "Einmal Fisch Fillet Burger" (und dann sagst du "bitte") 😛
tulip tiger
du kannst auch mit dem Finger eins deuten 😄
ember mason
welche klingt besser?
Welches davon klingt besser*
fervent kernel
Oohh, danke!! Jetzt kann ich einen Burger selbstbewusst bestellen
ember mason
hahaha ❤️
wanton latch
hallo, what would you say is the best translation for "that doesn't happen"/"that isn't the case"?
rancid drift
Hey Leute. 🙂 Auf Dänisch kann man mit dem Wort "Forfatterskab" ("Verfasserschaft") auf das Gesamtwerk eines Autors/einer Autorin hinweisen - geht dies aber auch auf Deutsch, oder gibt es ein besseres Wort? Ich finde Wörter wie "Bibliographie" nicht ganz zureichend.
kind lake
Verfasserschaft passt nicht dazu im Deutschen
Aber ein Synonym fällt mir jetzt spontan nicht ein :/
long whale
No, but "das Werk", "das Gesamtwerk" (as mentioned) and "die Schriften" would all work. :)
hallo, what would you say is the best translation for "that doesn't happen"/"that isn't the case"?
@wanton latch that doesn't happen -> "vorkommen" (das kommt nicht/nie vor), "passieren" (das passiert nicht/nie); "that isn't the case" -> "das ist nicht der Fall", "so ist das nicht", "das ist nicht so" :)
wanton latch
danke schön @long whale !
buoyant coral
Is the s from "sich" pronounced like an English "s" or "z"?
autumn sapphire
[z], because it comes before a vowel
of course this depends on region and speaker though
Ich finde Wörter wie "Bibliographie" nicht ganz zureichend.
warum denn nicht? Bibliogaphie heißt genau das was du meinst
unreal tiger
Hey
How is it correct: "Wir besuchen oft die Großeltern." or "Wir besuchen die Großeltern oft."?
delicate tiger
both
unreal tiger
Ok, thanks!
final wigeon
Kleine Frage, sind "sparen" und "schonen" austauschbar?
final wigeon
Könntest du mir ein Biespiel dafür geben, wo sie nicht Synonyme sind?
bronze garnet
Kannst du ein Beispiel geben, wo sie Synonyme sind? mir fällt keins ein 🤔
final wigeon
Oh ok, danke immerhin für den Satz
bronze garnet
ah nein, ich meine das als Gegenfrage 😄
final wigeon
Ach sooo lol
Ich habe nur gerade "geschont" begegnet, und es schien mir mit "gespart" austauschbar:
"ISO-Images können Sie auch als virtuelle Laufwerke in Windows einbinden. Das hat drei Vorteile. Erstens: Die teuren Originalscheiben — etwa Spiele-CDs — werden geschont."
bronze garnet
geschont ist hier: die CDs werden nicht strapaziert/beschädigt
gespart heißt, es werden nicht so viele benutzt
final wigeon
Ich sehe es ... "sparen" ist mehr als der Gegenteil von "verbrauchen", während "schonen" hat mehr mit "kümmern" zutun, oder?
Wie im Satz "Energie sparen und Umwelt schonen"
bronze garnet
Genau ja, sparen = weniger verbrauchen. z.B. Geld sparen --> weniger ausgeben. Etwas schonen = vorsichtiger sein, nicht überstrapazieren, nicht beschädigen
final wigeon
Gut, danke für die Hilfe!
hearty blaze
Is the 12 hour clock or 24 hour clock more commonly used in Germany?
bronze garnet
hmm well both are used but I would say 24h is more official
If youre trying to meet up with at 3pm with a friend you would probably say "Um 3 (Uhr)", for a doctors appointment they would give you an appointment for 15 Uhr
calm hinge
na ja we say "halb Acht" for 19:30
final wigeon
Hey, heißt es "Stromleitung" oder "Strom Leistung"?
hearty blaze
Thank you @bronze garnet and @calm hinge
long whale
Hey, heißt es "Stromleitung" oder "Stromleistung"?
@final wigeon With this spelling, both exist. They mean different things, though - the first is a power cable, the 2nd the output. :)
final wigeon
Das macht dann Sinn 😅
bronze garnet
It's Nominativ case 👀
tardy carbon
sein specifically always takes nominative yes
hot lynx
What is the difference between erhalten und bekommen?
past rivet
I think the former is more elevated as in the meaning "to receive/get"
hot lynx
so would you say it is more common?
past rivet
By that I'd say "bekommen" is commoner since not a lot of people speak elevated but I've no experience on it, a native knows more
And we should keep in mind the different usages of the verbs (idiomatic?)
hot lynx
Ah I understand now! Thank you very much! Yes that is true
past rivet
https://www.dwds.de/r/plot?view=1&corpus=dta%2Bdwds&norm=date%2Bclass&smooth=spline&genres=0&grand=1&slice=10&prune=0&window=3&wbase=0&logavg=0&logscale=0&xrange=1600%3A2000&q1=bekommen&q2=erhalten You can check that out, but I guess the corpora, among which you can choose the one you like, mostly consist of newspapers, books etc. rather than colloquialisms @hot lynx
glass dune
Do you guys have a list of free resources for german learning other than the fairly obvious ones online?
PDF books and so on i have the GCSE german book but its mostly to score well on exams i actually want to learn the language
sly ferry
ex resources
stoic mauveBOT
stable pawn
What's the best translation for an American school club (ie, art club, robotics club, environmental club, debate club, etc.): Verein? Team? Mannschaft? Gesellschaft? Klub? Arbeitsgemeinschaft? AG?
humble remnant
oh yeah AG
fervent kernel
Ich habe dich verstanden
Why here you use the past participle instead of infinitive?
long whale
It's called Perfekt, one of the German past tenses. 🤷 @fervent kernel Composed of the appropriate form of haben (or sein, depending on the verb) + Partizip 2. :)
long whale
You can't use haben + infinitive :)
grim obsidian
yes
long whale
Mm, depending on how you look at it, most of the verbs which just show a vowel change are called "strong" verbs, I think. 🤷
autumn sapphire
^
an irregular verb is one that doesn't follow any obvious pattern. Strong verbs do follow patterns, even if they're too complicated to be worth learning
woven phoenix
Does anyone know if deren and dessen can be used with inanimate things and if those two words are even used much in conversation?
plain umbra
What else would you use if not deren and dessen?
woven phoenix
Um i guess in some situations you could translate to der or die?
plain umbra
Can you give an example?
woven phoenix
Eine Sprache, deren wörter seltsam sind.
Eine Sprache, in der wörter seltsam sind.
Although both sound weird?????
plain umbra
Both are grammatically correct. They're just rephrased.
You could probably come up with various more ways to rephrase it.
But the grammar is fine.
As for which formulation is most common in spoken language, I'm not sure.
woven phoenix
Klingt das gut? Ich soll morgen meinem onkel zwar helfen, aber ich will nicht.
Or should i say, aber will ich nicht
Or is das missing?
bronze garnet
So wie du es geschrieben hast, ja
macht aber nicht viel sinn
Klingt das gut? Ich soll morgen meinem onkel zwar helfen, aber ich will nicht.
Or should i say, aber will ich nicht
aber ich will nicht is fine, for the other one it would have to be "aber das will ich nicht"
or "ich will aber nicht"
floral onyx
Wie hätte ich es den schreiben sollen, damit es Sinn macht?
bronze garnet
im Genitiv macht das schon deutlich mehr Sinn 😉
floral onyx
Die Familie seiner Freundin?
bronze garnet
genau
floral onyx
Ahh okay macht sinn haha danke
bronze garnet
👍
floral onyx
Versank im roten Meer oder im rotem meer?
long whale
Klingt das gut? Ich soll morgen meinem onkel zwar helfen, aber ich will nicht.
Or should i say, aber will ich nicht
@woven phoenix Why use "zwar"? (If you do, it should be placed before "morgen") :)
woven phoenix
@long whale I saw on germaniseasy.com that you can put it before helfen to emphasize what you are about to "aber-ize"
long whale
Can’t you use “zwar” as a Füllwort?
@ember mason Not really. Not as far as I know. 🤷
stable pawn
Gibt's nen Unterschied oder sowas zwischen Zündholz und Streichholz?
stable pawn
Ach ja, danke.
pure mountain
Ich habe eine Frage; was bedeutet "Der" in "Der schon wieder"?
What I understand from the context, it means "Him again" or something like that
bronze garnet
thats what it means yes. you can refer to people with just "Der/Die", for example when you point at someone or when the other person knows who you are talking about, but its usually considered to be a bit rude
pure mountain
Thank you. It was driving me crazy not finding the reason behind this.
sick ravine
its a bit rude like "oh this fuckin guy again"?
humble remnant
i wouldn't go that far
it's just like referring to someone as "that one"
like as a figure rather than a person
a bit degrading i think
silver gale
I have questions about genitiv
when we use genitiv on countries do we use des or
we just say Präsident Deutschlands?
autumn sapphire
the latter, or you use von
silver gale
okay
my other question is
what if we have a statement with "und" and we want to use it with genitiv
Idk for example
umm
Protektorat Böhmen und Mähren
with genitiv
knotty flax
Am I right that your question how to connect two country names in genitive using a "und"? Because I'm not sure if I understood that correctly
long whale
No. Singular: "der Stadtstaat Hamburg" (Nom.) -> "des Stadtstaates Hamburg" (Gen.) Plural: "die Stadtstaaten Hamburg und Bremen" (Nom.) -> "der Stadtstaaten Hamburg und Bremen". Whatever you replace "Hamburg" and/or "Bremen" with, only the common denominator (der Stadtstaat/die Stadtstaaten) will be put in Genitiv.
hot oar
How do I take learning a language siersly and from where do I learn?
grim obsidian
faq beginner
stoic mauveBOT
buoyant coral
You have no tasks or reminders to complete. --> Du hast keine Aufgaben oder Mahnschreiben abschließen
Habe ich recht?
fathom inlet
Du hast keine Aufgaben oder Mahnschreiben zu erledigen würde besser
fallow ledge
Ich finde „abschließen“ auch ein passendes Wort zu sein. Es muss aber in einem Zu-infinitivsatz stehen. Also, du hast keine Aufgaben oder Mahnschreiben mehr abzuschließen
Erledigen ist auch eine schöne Auswahl 😄
Ich habe aber noch nie „Mahnschreiben“ in einem Satz gesehen und ehrlich gesagt, hab keine Ahnung von seinen Nuancen. Ich habe allerdings „Erinnerungen“ schon gesehen (beim App aufm Handy). Also ich weiß nicht, welches Wort besser passen würde
Laut des Wörterbuchs, kommt „Mahnschreiben“ wie eine gute Auswahl vor
long whale
Depends. "das Mahnschreiben" is a more or less polite letter from someone you owe money to, reminding you you haven't paid their bills yet. :)
raw pilot
Erinnerungen würde besser passen
fallow ledge
Oh wow Mahnschreiben is the tax man
bronze garnet
griesst --> gießt. You got the gender right but it needs Akkusativ case instead of Dativ
this technically works but it means that shes inside the Topf pouring water somewhere
bronze garnet
👍
cobalt smelt
thx
keen pulsar
„Das Gedicht ‚Erlkönig‘ von Goethe zeigt Unterschiede zwischen Liebe und sexuelle Lust bei einem Vater, der gleichzeitig mit seinem Sohn eine Betreuungsliebe aber auch eine sexuelle Liebe hat.“
this is the thesis sentence of this literary analysis paragraph I‘m writing for myself to practice
-should I have the whole name of the author here? or is „Goethe“ here acceptable?
-any grammar errors or phrasing errors?
long whale
@keen pulsar "sexuelle Lust" - the adjective isn't properly declined here. It's different when there is no article at all. And the last part would translate back as "who has, at the same time with his son, one love (whatever "Betreuungsliebe" means) and the other. Both kinds of love would again be used without any article, and personally, I think it needs rephrasing along the lines of "der seinen Sohn sowohl fürsorglich liebt als auch sexuell begehrt". (And I do wish you hadn't written that, because... yuck. Why would anyone say something like that? But never mind, that's beside the point.) :)
keen pulsar
-should it be “sexueller Lust” because of zwischen + Dativ?
-Betreuungsliebe - I meant it like a caring type of love, but I think fürsorglich is better here
-I guess in English, at the end I mean something more like “a father, who has both a caring type of love but also a sexual love with his son”, so I think your rephrasing works
-(I mean, that was one of the interpretations I found, and I “liked” the prompt better so...)
long whale
Yes, "sexueller Lust" is correct, and yes, zwischen + Dativ.
stoic dirge
😳
long whale
I haven't checked, but I don't think there is such a word as "Betreuungsliebe". :)
@keen pulsar
And, oh, I forgot - yes, just "Goethe" is quite acceptable. :)
"der Betreuer" and "betreuen" are usually used in the context of professional carers or legal guardians, btw.
keen pulsar
ah okay, that makes sense
bronze garnet
laufen can mean either "going by foot" or "running". Rennen is also running but I would say its a bit faster maybe? i believe there are also quite a few regional differences on how they are used
Lauftrainer
i would interpret Renntrainer as a coach specifically for a race but im not sure if that exists
(race = das Rennen)
sick ravine
Is darin a word? like one you would use like darauf, daran, davon, etc
keen pulsar
darin is a word according to dict.cc, but I’ve personally heard “drin” and “drinnen” more often tho; a native speaker would have to contribute about the differences between the words
long whale
Is darin a word? like one you would use like darauf, daran, davon, etc
@sick ravine Yes, exactly. :)
darin is a word according to dict.cc, but I’ve personally heard “drin” and “drinnen” more often tho; a native speaker would have to contribute about the differences between the words
@keen pulsar We mostly use "drin" in spoken German, "darin" is more for written German. "drinnen" is mostly used for "inside the house", both in written and in spoken German (it's the opposite of "draußen"). Even though it's basically a synonym of "drin/darin", we wouldn't say (or write) "Er istdarin" when we mean "he's inside [the house]. :)
true escarp
What are the questions 2 for?
long whale
For when #questions is busy.
true escarp
Ok.
buoyant coral
Habe meine Deutsche Übersetzungen recht?
Here are the apples that you brought me --> Hier sind die Äpfel, den du mir mitgebracht habe.
Here is the apple that tried to hug me --> Hier ist der Apfel, der mich drücken versucht
Here is the apple that my cat tried to attack --> Hier ist der Apfel, den meine Katze anfallen versucht
glossy marsh
*Sind meine *deutschen Übersetzungen *richtig?
1. Here are the apples that you brought me. -> Hier sind die Äpfel, *die du mir mitgebracht *hast.
2. Here is the apple that tried to hug me. -> Hier ist der Apfel, der mich drücken *wollte. | Hier ist der Apfel, der mich versucht hat, zu drücken.
3. Here is the apple that my cat tried to attack. -> Hier ist der Apfel, den meine Katze *angreifen *wollte. | Hier ist der Apfel, den meine Katze versuchte, anzugreifen.
@buoyant coral
buoyant coral
Danke für die korrektur @glossy marsh
glossy marsh
Immer gerne!
glossy marsh
Yes.
For clarification, the differences are:
1. Here is the apple that wanted to hug me. | Here is the apple that tried to hug me.
2. Here is the apple that my cat wanted to attack. | Here is the apple that my cat tried to attack.
As such, the seconds translations are what you wrote in English while the first translations are alternatives that sound just as good in German.
buoyant coral
Ach so! But is one preferable over the other or it doesn't matter?
glossy marsh
Both are equally fine.
buoyant coral
Ah ok danke schön!
The lady escorted the cats that the girl wanted. --> Die Frau geleitete die Katzen, die das Mädchen hast gewollt
is the german sentence right or wrong? @glossy marsh
glossy marsh
Katzen are cats.