questions-2

[plush pelican]

instead of "alle", you can add "insgesamt" after "kosten"

X, Y, and Z cost in total 8000 Riyal

"Jungend"?

"eines 4**-**monatiges Projekt"

again, in front of a neuter noun, it's just "ein"

[copper orchid]

when do we use eines again I completely forgot

[plush pelican]

"Das grünes"

If you have the -s from the definite article, you don't need it on the adjective

[plush pelican]

When something is on its own

Bob: Ich will ein Auto.
Sally: Ich habe schon eines.

[copper orchid]

oh yea now I remember

[plush pelican]

so when "ein" is taking the place of an entire noun

[copper orchid]

so should I write "Das grüne"?

[plush pelican]

Do you have the tables for adjective declension?

https://www.germanveryeasy.com/adjective-declension#Weak-declension

[copper orchid]

is using grünes incorrect or does it just sound better without the s

[copper orchid]

yea but I probably need to review it

it's for a goethe exam

I just want to know how you'd personally grade it

mistakes and all

[plush pelican]

I have no idea, I've never graded German exams

It's certainly not B2 level

But whether it could pass for A2? Maybe, depends on what factors are considered

[copper orchid]

as an a2 learner, im incredibly offended

[copper orchid]

alr thanks for all the corrections though ill note them down

[plush pelican]

This is a joke?

I wouldn't expect an A2 learner to be able to write at a B2 level

[copper orchid]

yea obviously lmao

[long whale]

Das Projekt "Grünes Riyadh" Projekt ist ein ehrenamtliches Projekt in Riyadh. Das Ziel ist, dass wir mehr Pflanzen und Bäume (no -n) an den Straßen pflanzen. Es wird die Umwelt und die Luft viel sehr verbessern. Es ist auch gut für die Jugend, weil es über der die Umwelt informiert. Es ist ein 4**-monatiges Projekt. Die Pflanzen**-Ausrüstungen, die Erfrischungen usw. alle kosten insgesamt 8000 Riyal (also circa 2000 Euro). Ich finde, dass es sich lohnt. Ich würde an diesem Projekt teilnehmen, aber gerade habe ich leider keine Zeit.

[serene mountain]

Why is 'Freut mich auch' acceptable but not 'Freut mich zu'?

[charred harbor]

I think there’s one you missed:
Pflanzen und Bäumen Bäume 😄

[long whale]

Because "zu" has a lot of meanings/uses, but "also; as well" is not among them.

[whole portal]

I think they confused to and too lol

[torpid hazel]

gibt es einen unterschied zwischen "ich tue so, als .." und "ich tue so, als wenn ...", außer der position des verbs?

[rich kraken]

Nein gibt es eigentlich nicht

Ich tue so als wäre ich tot
Ich tue so als wenn ich tot wäre

Ich würde aber “ich tue so, als ob ich tot wäre”
Oder “Ich tue so, wie als wäre ich tot”
Verwenden, das sind häufiger verwendete Formen

[untold trellis]

“Ich tue so, wie als wäre ich tot”
Neee, lass das lieber mal. Es ist stilistisch und grammatikalisch unschön.

Bzw. es ist grammatikalisch einfach falsch. Wie und als kombiniert man so nicht.

Umgangssprachlich vll schon. Schön ist es dennoch nicht. 😉

[rich kraken]

Ich habe vergessen zu sagen dass es Umgangssprache ist

Tut mir leid

[harsh harness]

is this how you spell Schnitzel

[lean mica]

My German friends are still reminding me how I wrote it "snitzel"

Traumatized

[harsh harness]

😬

[fervent kernel]

Where can I learn about word order? Something comprehensive and covering all the aspects. It's not like I don't understand the word order at all, it's just too many exceptions and I'm getting confused a lot. So where can I actually learn all the nuances?

My word order is more intuitive and sometimes I don't understand why it is placed there and it's pissing me off.

[signal cipher]

I don’t know any single source. Your German teacher which is on YouTube has couple of videos, Laura has videos and text in her site.

You can ask here the parts which you don’t understand

I have been studying it for a while

But my lesson is not ready yet. I can’t share it for now. So I don’t have any complete information.

Maybe you can check hammer’s grammar book.

It’s hard to find while thing in a single lesson. I have read so many sources, asked here a lot.

[plush pelican]

There is a start

Look up TeKaMoLo if you don't know about that already

Word order is a big topic

I don't have time to really go into it for now

[static helm]

Ok

[solid marsh]

An die ganzen Deutschen hier: "sein" im Plusquamperfekt 1.Pers.Pl. = "wir waren gewesen"

richtig?

Futur II = "wir werden gewesen sein" 💀

[prisma hearth]

what’s the difference between lehren, unterrichten and beibringen?

[serene mountain]

Why is 'Sie ist Kellnerin' acceptable for 'She is a waitress' but not 'Sie ist ein/eine (not sure which one) Kellnerin' is not okay?

[signal cipher]

It’s just not 🤷

💁🙅🤷🙋

[plush pelican]

German and English don't always agree abuot when to use an indefinite article. One of those times is when talking about someone's profession

[serene mountain]

🥲

Is Kellnerin masculine, feminine or neuter?

[signal cipher]

Feminine

[plush pelican]

Many/most job titles have both a masculine and feminine version

the feminine version is usually the masculine plus -in

der Kellner = the waiter (male)
die Kellnerin = the waiter (female)

[signal cipher]

Schon and doch. I need to learn these. Most used modal particles

[serene mountain]

Ja, ist es das gleiche mit Schauspieler und Schauspilerin (I hope my response is gramatically correct)

[plush pelican]

was it a question?

[serene mountain]

No

It is a statement

[plush pelican]

In that case, "ja, es ist dasselbe mit Schauspieler und Schauspielerin"

[serene mountain]

Why is the es and ist in reverse?

[plush pelican]

they aren't

[signal cipher]

Verb at the beginning means it’s a question

[plush pelican]

Es ist ein Auto.

[signal cipher]

Conjugated verb stays in second place in standard sentence

[plush pelican]

You're assuming that because of "ja", you have to have the verb right after it

[serene mountain]

Don't worry, I had a complete brain fart

[plush pelican]

it turns out, "ja" is on its own, not part of the sentence

[serene mountain]

The original one should have been that way round

[signal cipher]

Ja, nein etc. are not count as space taker

[plush pelican]

This happens with some words, although much less often than in English

[serene mountain]

Yeah yeah, don't worry I just made a mistake and for some reason put them in reverse originally

[signal cipher]

How dare you

[serene mountain]

Finally, why dasselbe instead of das gleiche?

[signal cipher]

Dasselbe means same

It has declensions

🙁

[plush pelican]

"das gleiche" is like "vergleichen", it means "it's similar"
"dasselbe" is like "selbst", it means "it's the same"

If you and I both wear a shirt with a similar pattern, sie sind das gleiche Hemd.

If you and I are both wearing the same shirt, we are both inside of it simultaneously, es ist dasselbe Hemd.

[serene mountain]

I am going to be brutally honest, I have no idea what that is as of yet

[serene mountain]

Ah yes I understand

[plush pelican]

Get ready for the Thunderdome

https://tenor.com/view/seinfeld-george-costanza-gif-27012803

[signal cipher]

Was ist das

[signal cipher]

Noun and adjective conjugation

The word conjugation is for verbs

[plush pelican]

it's a reference to an old movie

[serene mountain]

Nouns need to be conjugated as well?

And adjectives too?

[signal cipher]

Some in some situations

[serene mountain]

Bruh, this language man is continously throwing curveballs

[signal cipher]

Attributive ones, most of the time

[plush pelican]

nouns sometimes need to have some stuff added on to the end, different suffixes. It's not that often.

"conjugation" as a word really only applies to verbs.

It's "declension" for everything else

Adjective declension is the big one

[signal cipher]

And you have to learn sooner or later

[plush pelican]

ein guter Mann
der gute Mann
Ich helfe dem guten Mann.

[signal cipher]

Case system is mandatory

[serene mountain]

Oh well, it is what it is

[fallen pendant]

The fish song touches on these! :0

[signal cipher]

There are multiple verbs to mean touch. This came to my mind first

I need to learn them

[fallen pendant]

https://youtu.be/uRjs1eoEx0w?si=rQFOGpQf-KB7Hj25
the fish song

[serene mountain]

Is this a good memorising it/whatever it is? (yet to study whatever is in this video 😆 )

[signal cipher]

Depends on the fish

[fallen pendant]

Yes it is good, also very catchy and silly.

[serene mountain]

What's it supposed to make you memorise?

[fallen pendant]

Cases and how some words used to refer to a subject of a sentence changes.
Nominative, Accusative, and Dative Cases.

[serene mountain]

Slightly off track, I have just come across the word 'Den' which I presume is 'The' but I thought there was only 'Der, Die and Das'? Right?

[fallen pendant]

Den is the accusative form of der

[signal cipher]

They are nominative

[fallen pendant]

brain fart

[signal cipher]

Also there are dative, accusative and genitive

Case is not so hard, gender is not so hard but when they merge 😮

[serene mountain]

Is there anywhere, where I can learn what these words mean 😆

[signal cipher]

Endless combinations

So focusing the endings is better.

Der die das
Er E S

You will see patterns

Instead of memorizing every word, learning the suffix choice is better

[fallen pendant]

Probs a good grammar book somewhere on here

[signal cipher]

Mark 4 Supra didn’t sell as well as mark 3 at first.

[plush pelican]

There are more, depending on case

[serene mountain]

This language is getting out of hand

[signal cipher]

Just takes time. You will understand, get used to eventually

[plush pelican]

Those all mean "the"

[fallen pendant]

oh hey found a thing https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/zg8pycw/revision/1

[serene mountain]

When it comes to the above, I wish they just copied English 😭

[signal cipher]

Fun fact English is derived from German

[plush pelican]

Check out these guys, especially the playlists labeled "A1.1 Grammar", "A1.2 Grammar", "A2.1 Grammar", etc.

https://www.youtube.com/@yourgermanteacher/playlists

[fallen pendant]

Old english was basically german but other languages got mixed in over time and here we are!

[signal cipher]

Simplified German with French souse

[plush pelican]

English and German are both derived from a shared ancestor

[signal cipher]

Wasn’t it latin

[plush pelican]

This is a similar thing to saying, "Humans come from monkeys"

humans and monkeys are both the descendants of a shared common ancestor

[plush pelican]

That's English's other side

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Germanic_language

[whole portal]

the bastard side fr

[untold trellis]

From the northern region of Germany/Europe. In the early middle age, there was a migration to the as today known UK. If you listen to Plattdeutsch, you can hear the similarities.
The also just use de as an article. It similar to the.

And the people who understand Plattdeutsch, as I was told, can easier understand the people from the Netherlands.

[signal cipher]

Does Konjunktiv 1 has any other usage then indirect speech

[long whale]

Not really. It does tend to show up in fixed expressions, though (mainly, but not only as a 3rd person imperative): Gott sei's gedankt! Der König lebe hoch! Lang möge er leben! Es sei ihm gegönnt.

[signal cipher]

So it might be related with “wishing” in past. But not today.

[acoustic breach]

"möge er in Frieden ruhen" is still used

[plain umbra]

It's not wishing but rather a kind of 3rd person command.

[long whale]

Ah, I see what you mean. Yes, it isn't really "productive" anymore, i.e. we don't really "make" sentences like this anymore, but we do sometimes use those pretty much fixed expressions.

[signal cipher]

Danke schön @long whale @plain umbra

[plain umbra]

If you scroll down to the bottom here, you can see the extra uses of K1: https://www.dartmouth.edu/~deutsch/Grammatik/Subjunctive/KonjunktivI.html

[signal cipher]

Danke schön

Is there anything with zu-Partizip 2 combination?

Old usage, rare usage etc.?

[long whale]

Like... what? Can you please give an example?

[signal cipher]

There is no example. Just wondered.

[long whale]

Depends on the kind of "zu" you mean. 🤷

Ich habe die Tür zugeschlossen. Er ist zu betrunken, um noch klar denken zu können.

[signal cipher]

I wondered if it has any encouragement kind of imperative meaning

Like soft imperative

Not order

[long whale]

Are you thinking of "Nur zu!" - ? That's a fixed expression, meaning "go ahead". There is no omitted Partizip II here, as far as I know.

[signal cipher]

I actually asking because of Bulgarian. I am trying to learn is there any other forgotten, not used things which are common in both languages

There are a lot of side usages in languages which are not thought in regular leasons.

Just for my own enjoyment.

[long whale]

I'd recommend checking DWDS - the "niche" usages (if any) usually appear at the bottom. "zu" doesn't seem to have any of those, since using "zu + infinitive" is pretty much the strongest form of impersonal imperative there is: "Der Betrag ist sofort zu entrichten" = The amount must be paid at once [or else!]

https://www.dwds.de/wb/zu

[signal cipher]

Danke schön

[signal cipher]

Der Betrag ist sofort entrichten zu haben?

Like “be paid”

[long whale]

There is no such thing/construction!

[plush pelican]

There is a quasi imperative involving "zu", but it has an infinitive or Partizip 1, not Partizip 2

From C-Grammatik Übungsgrammatik:

[long whale]

That's what I said... 👀

[plush pelican]

You also said the thing about Partizip 1?

[long whale]

Ehh, no, not that.

[plush pelican]

well, then, I've at least added some value, 😄

[signal cipher]

Can you give the link

[plush pelican]

What link?

[signal cipher]

This

[plush pelican]

That's from a textbook

[signal cipher]

Okay 👍

[main tartan]

Does anyone know some free streaming websites where i can watch movies but in german dub? (I had netflix but im a bit broke for that now )

[signal cipher]

YouTube

[ashen heart]

If you're not looking for blockbusters only, ZDF/ARD/arte Mediathek. You need a German/French IP though.

[south zenith]

I’ve used ZDF too and yea you’d need a vpn tho I’ve only used it for German language originals not dubs

[fervent kernel]

Can anyone review this and tell what else can I add and if there's anything wrong?

[tropic pasture]

when would u use the auxiliary verbs?

[plain umbra]

They are used to form different verb forms like Perfekt, Futur, Passiv, and so on.

[tropic pasture]

i dont understand

[plain umbra]

For example, when you make Perfekt (past tense), you use haben or sein: Ich habe gegessen. = I have eaten. / I ate.

@tropic pasture Don't worry too much about it. Once you get to those topics, you will get it after a while.

[vernal ermine]

Good evening Friends!

I habe ein Frage. When I have both Akkusativ and dativ object but one is a pronoun and another is noun. How I have to place those in a sentence in a correct position?

[signal cipher]

Pronoun is written earlier then noun.

[long whale]

Ich schenke meinem Vater einen Computer. -> Ich schenke ihn meinem Vater. -> Ich schenke ihm einen Computer. -> Ich schenke ihn ihm.

[fervent kernel]

Den Schülern werden von den Lehrern geholfen.
Is this sentence grammatically correct?
And when is it possible to start the passive sentence with 'es'?
For example: Es wird den Schülern von den Lehrern geholfen

[long whale]

No. Your version with "es" is correct, though.

[fervent kernel]

What's wrong in the first sentence?

[long whale]

The verb form in your 1st version is not correct. Since your subject is always going to be "es", whether you put it in or not, the verb must always be in singular.

And the answer to your question of when you can use the version using "es": whenever your passive sentence is without a subject.

[signal cipher]

Doesn’t a passive sentence exist?

Which is plural

Or is it for dative only?

[rich prism]

I also don't get why it isn't correct.

[long whale]

For Dativ verbs, yes. Den Spendern wird gedankt. Es wird den Spendern gedankt. vs. Die Häuser werden gebaut.

[signal cipher]

Danke schön

[long whale]

Den Schülern (Dativ) wird von den Lehrern (also Dativ, because of "von") gedankt -> no subject -> dummy subject "es" (which is obviously singular)

[signal cipher]

Dative object don’t be the subject of passive sentence. A dummy subject be.

[fervent kernel]

Can it be used with be with verbs that don't take dativ?

[signal cipher]

https://yourdailygerman.com/meaning-es-ist-german/

[long whale]

Yes, but then it's a different kind of "es" (see the link above)

[rich prism]

Den Schulern werden geholfen.
Correct?

[signal cipher]

Wird

[rich prism]

Why

[signal cipher]

Den Schulern isn’t subject

Es is Subject

[rich prism]

Huh

[long whale]

Can you tell me what it is you don't understand in my post here: #questions-2 message Then I might be able to clarify.

[rich prism]

Honestly I didn't understand it at all

[signal cipher]

Accusative object of active sentence becomes subject of passive version of that sentence. But dative object doesn’t. Instead of dative object, the dummy subject es becomes the subject.

[rich prism]

So why is it wird

[signal cipher]

Es is Singular

Es - It

[rich prism]

But den schulern isnt

[signal cipher]

It’s dative object

[fervent kernel]

So
Den Schulern wird von den Lehrern geholfen
Would be correct...?

[rich prism]

I hate passiv, I thought i understood it yesterday

[long whale]

*Schülern, though.

[rich prism]

Why is this correct

[signal cipher]

Why not

[rich prism]

Because schulern is plurallllll

[long whale]

Tell me, what is the subject in this sentence? And remember: the subject must be in Nominativ!

[signal cipher]

Which is not subject!!!!!

You conjugate the verb according to subject

[rich prism]

Then what is the subject then

There's no subject

[rich prism]

Schulern

[fervent kernel]

My bad. Thanks

[signal cipher]

It’s es. Dummy subject

[long whale]

Precisely. That's why we use the dummy subject: es. Which is singular.

[signal cipher]

Just a pronoun to fulfill the subject need of the sentence.

[rich prism]

Die Schüler werden gehasst
Correct?

why

[long whale]

die Schüler = Nominativ = Subjekt

[rich prism]

But aren't they the Akkusativ object

[long whale]

(while den Schülern = Dativ)

[long whale]

Who is being hated? The students.

[rich prism]

Yes, so akkusative object?

[long whale]

We hate them -> They are being hated

[rich prism]

So why doesnt it change

[signal cipher]

Accusative object of active sentence becomes subject of the passive version of that sentence and is written nominative.

But dative object stays as object. For subject, a dummy subject is added which is es.

And that es can be omitted. I don’t know if this is a grammar rule.

When you fill the position 1 of the sentence by dative object, need for the es gets lower. So you may omit it.

[long whale]

Ehh - the dummy subject "es" will either come first or it will be omitted. Den Schülern wird es von den Lehrern geholfen won't wash.

[fervent kernel]

Ich würde das machen
What would the sentence be in passiv
I've written "Das würde von mir gemacht"
But ChatGPT says "Das würde von mir gemacht werden"
Which one is correct?

[signal cipher]

Würde is Konjunktiv 2

Would

[fervent kernel]

I kno

That would be done by me
That could be said ...

[long whale]

faq ChatGPT

[stoic mauve]

**AI-generated text**

This FAQ explains rules and advice for using text AI tools such as ChatGPT.

🔹 **Server rules regarding this topic:**

• Do not answer any questions by using AI-generated text.
• Do not ask for AI-generated text to be corrected.

🔹 **Problems with using AI for answers and corrections**

• No fact-checking: Tools like ChatGPT are very good at writing texts and often provide answers that sound good, but they are not capable of fact-checking their own answers.

• Fake information: It’s very common for these programs to make up fake or incomplete information, which is explained convincingly but is mostly wrong.

• Non-deterministic: The information is also partially randomly generated, meaning that if you ask the same question multiple times, you will usually end up with different answers.

• No language knowledge: It shouldn't be used for grammar or vocabulary questions, as it doesn't understand linguistics, nuance, or how a native speaker might actually use a given word or grammar point.

• Missing context: When correcting texts it needs to understand what the writer was trying to express. As such it may miss mistakes or correct things that don't need to be corrected.

🔹 **Reasons NOT to use generative AI for learning**

• It delays the development of important skills in language learning.
  Relying too much on AI generated texts or solutions may get in the way of learning the necessary skills of language acquisition, such as how to look up words or phrases in a dictionary, using critical thinking, or actually applying learned concepts.

• AI is not designed to guide learners.
  If you ask an AI a question, it will provide you with information, whereas if you ask a human, they will ideally ask you to show your understanding and offer advice on how to find the answer.

• AI output requires scrutiny
  AI output must be verified, but beginners to German or to language learning often lack the knowledge or experience to do so.

🔹 **Good uses of AI-generated text**

• Ask ChatGPT to come up with some story ideas that you can write about.

[long whale]

That said, in this particular case, I agree: Das würde von mir gemacht werden (which is awkward, but correct)

[tropic pasture]

yes ik that, so is it when the verb goes to the end of the sentence and haben,sein are introduced?

[plain umbra]

Auxiliary verbs are sein, haben and werden.

Those can be used as normal verbs or as auxiliary verbs.

[long whale]

Since you're putting the sentence into Passiv, you'd have to use the appropriate form of "werden" - which in this case is "werden".

[plain umbra]

But yeah, basically they are "helper verbs" that go with another verb to make certain grammar forms.

[tropic pasture]

ok thanks, that makes sense

baically have been using it without noticing its even a thing😂

our teacher just called them the"helpy out verbs"

[plain umbra]

Oh yeah, "helper verb" is quite a common way to refer to them.

I think some learners may get intimidated by a word like "auxiliary" so the teacher probably wanted to make it sound nicer.

[tropic pasture]

i cetainly did when i saw it today😂

[fervent kernel]

So würde kochen-->würde gekocht
Would be wrong?

[signal cipher]

They are modest verbs. They leave their main meanings and work as helper for other verbs.

They are good verbs

[delicate tiger]

"Ich würde eine Suppe kochen"
"Eine Suppe würde (von mir) gekocht werden"

[long whale]

... werden, right? I mean, we had this extensive discussion about it, but...

[signal cipher]

I am on werden team

[fervent kernel]

Understood thank you both

[fervent kernel]

Just a lil follow up question
So what would it be in sein passiv?

[long whale]

IMO, that... doesn't really work with this particular sentence.

[tropic pasture]

in what tenses will wurde be a helper verb?

[tropic pasture]

😵‍💫

[tiny scaffold]

The specific form ''wurden'' is used for passive voice

Das Haus wurde gebaut = the house was being built

[tropic pasture]

so when the subject is being acted on by the verb?

wait nevermind i get it

so basically,if isaid the ball is being thrown by the pitcher thats in the passive voice

when the word"being" is in the english sentence then its more than likely when wurden is used

[short isle]

"Wurde" is past tense. In the case of "being", present tense, it's "werden" (conjugated).

[signal cipher]

There are two versions

One used werden, other uses sein

Vorgangspassive, Zustandspassive

[tropic pasture]

im not worrying abt that for now,sounds too comp for my level ill just get some basis right lol

atm

[tropic pasture]

ok got it

[round kestrel]

Ausland

[serene mountain]

I have not really had time to look at conjugation of verbs properly, but is it like French where there are -er, -ar and -ir verbs or do all regular verbs follow the same rule?

[short isle]

The exact same pattern/rule, yes

[serene mountain]

🙏

[frozen glen]

Hallo,ich bin im stufe b1 und brauche ich practice Vorbereitung?

[vernal ermine]

Danke 🙂

[vernal ermine]

Vielen Dank ❤

@long whale Happy to see you back. How are you? 🙂

[icy flax]

"naah, VooDoo?!"
Wenn man mir sowas sagt, verstehe das nie als ein "super umgangsprachliches Hallo" sondern wie ein "alsooo, VooDoo"? Ich verstehe, es hat einige Noten von einer Begrüssung, aber meistens empfinde ich als eine "eyy, sag was du da"
.
Was versteht ihr unter diesem Begrüssungs-nah?

@plain umbra @plush pelican, was versteht ihr unter diesem "Begrüssungs-nah"?

[plush pelican]

🤷‍♂️ Not sure

[icy flax]

Andere Deutsche haben mir gesagt, es bedeutet bloß hi, aber... ich empfinde es immer als "sooooo, Argus/Base??"

As they would be expecting a "hi, how are you" in return

[sinful nimbus]

Es kommt da ein wenig auf den Kontext an

[icy flax]

Also, ganz am Anfang einee Gesprächs, stell dir mal vor, du bist erst in Sprachchat rein

[sinful nimbus]

Wenn "nah" als Begrüßung kommt, ist es auch fast immer nur eine Begrüßung.
Wenn du ein wenig weiter im Gespräch bist, möchte man eher wissen was du so gemacht hast oder denkst

Zum Beispiel "Nah, was hast du gestern gemacht?"

[icy flax]

Ja ja, aber was antwortest du zu dieser Begrüssung, ist das dasselbe als ein einfaches "hi" ?

Oder wirds danach mehr erwartet?

[plain umbra]

It's spelled as just "na". And I have seen it enough on this server to see it as a greeting, sure.

[icy flax]

Meintet der eingentlich "wie geht es dir? Sagt mir was es dir in letzter Zeit passiert ist"

[icy flax]

How do you usually reply it?

[plain umbra]

I think just replying "na" is common. It can be interpreted both as just "hi" as well as "how are you?" or even asking for specific news/updates if you know something happened lately. So it's a bit contextual in that way.

@icy flax Actually not sure how accurate it is but maybe you can consider it similar to English "sup".

[sinful nimbus]

That is probably the most accurate translation. But I wouldn't consider "na" a common word. I'm german but I honestly rarely use it.
It's easier to use while speaking, than texting. And definitely don't use it in a test or exam

[plush pelican]

I've seen "etwa" used before a noun before, but using it afterwards is a bit new for me.

In the DWDS entry, it has both examples of "etwa" before and examples of "etwa" after the noun. Is there any difference between the two, or certain times when you can do only one of the two?

Das Stück kostet etwa zehn Euro.
Das Stück kostet zehn Euro etwa.

Auf Instagram etwa findet sich ein Beitrag.
Etwa auf Instagram findet sich ein Beitrag.

[signal cipher]

Isn’t it adverb

[uncut cove]

Okay what's the deal with "sich", all I know about it is that it is used as a reflexive verb, but how is it used in a sentence like
"Sie trafen sich auf einer Ausstellung"

[signal cipher]

Reciprocal

[uncut cove]

They met at an interesting exhibition

[long whale]

sie trafen sich = they met each other

[uncut cove]

Could you give me some more example??

[signal cipher]

Sich can mean they do the verb to each other or they do the verb on themself. You can make the meaning clear by adding adverbs.

[uncut cove]

Oooooo

[signal cipher]

Reflexive pronoun makes the subject also the object.

So as you can see in both versions all of the affected ones are subjects, all who affects are also subjects.

[plush pelican]

Ich wasche mich = I wash myself

[rich prism]

Hoffentlich kann mir jemand erklären.
Why is mir before jemand

[signal cipher]

I wash her
She wash me
I and She wash I and She
I and she do the verb. I and she are affected by the verb.

[plush pelican]

German does not require the subject before the object

it just happens to often be before the object

[rich prism]

So if jemand is first is it correct

[plush pelican]

I think so, yeah

German has a whole thing about new/important information and putting stuff towards the end of the sentence

[signal cipher]

I wash myself
She wash herself
I and she wash I and she.
I and she do the verb. I and she are affected by the verb.

[plush pelican]

I've explained it before, let me see if I can find it again

[uncut cove]

So ich wasche sich means I wash her??

[signal cipher]

Nope

Reflexive pronoun should match with the subject

There is no single reflexive pronoun

[plush pelican]

"Ich wasche sie" would be "I wash her"

You cannot use a reflexive pronoun to mean someone other than the subject, because then it's not a reflexive pronoun, it's not reflecting the subject. If you want the object to be someone other than the subject...it's just a regular pronoun

[signal cipher]

Reflexive pronoun makes the subject also the object of the sentence.

If they are different you can’t use reflexive.

But when there are multiple subjects as you can see when the subject do the verb on itself or on the other subject both who do the verb and who is affected by the verb are subjects.

[uncut cove]

Yoooo

I think I got it

Er rasiert sich??

[uncut cove]

That's correct??

[plush pelican]

he shaves himself, yeah

[signal cipher]

And some verbs are just used in reflexive mandatorily.

You don’t decide. They are always reflexive.

[uncut cove]

And in my original sentence, the literal translation in English would be "They meet EACH OTHER at an exhibition"??

[signal cipher]

Yes.
He meets her
She meets him
Subject meets subject

[plush pelican]

yeah, usually a reflexive pronoun is translated into English as something with -self

myself
himself
herself
yourself

But when it's two people like that, we don't have "y'all'sself", we have "each other"

[uncut cove]

Danke schön @plush pelican @signal cipher

[signal cipher]

Reflexive is also used in middle voice. It’s a passive voice which is not technically passive.

[uncut cove]

...this is above my pay grade currently lol

[signal cipher]

Das Buch verkaufte sich gut.
The book sold well.

Book don’t do the action. It’s only affected by the action.

So it means something like passive.

In English there is no reflexive but in German there is.

In nutshell: Reflexive means subject is affected by the verb.

[uncut cove]

I'm not gonna lie, I didn't understand this part at all

[signal cipher]

And dative reflexive can be used to mean possession. Just for clothes and body parts.

[uncut cove]

Got that part

[uncut cove]

Noted that down

[plush pelican]

Literally, "Das Buch verkauft sich gut" = The book sells itself well.

But less literally, it means, "The book sells well."

The book isn't literally selling itself, it's the thing being sold. But for this "middle voice" situation, you can make it the subject and the object with a reflexive pronoun, in order to mean, "The book sells well"

[uncut cove]

Ahhhhhhhhh

🤯

[plush pelican]

This is above your paygrade, don't worry about it if it's too complicated

[uncut cove]

I feel like im seeing the matrix

[signal cipher]

Ich wasche mir die Hände.
Ich wasche meine Hände.
They mean same.

[uncut cove]

I'll surely come across it later on

[signal cipher]

Mir is dative reflexive here.

[uncut cove]

But still, has been very helpful

[long whale]

die Hände (no -n!)

[pure crescent]

Did anyone reply to this? you know your examples are 2 vastly different meanings, right?

for the etwa=z.B. meaning, which I often use at work (writing), the difference I've been taught is the following. before a noun sounds "lighter", easier. not necessarily informal bc it's a rather formal expression, but more easily usable and understandable. post-noun etwa sounds a tiny bit more elegant in contrast. so it depends on the register, but the difference is so subtle that practically nobody will ever need to be aware of it. just use them interchangeably I guess.

Es gab dort viele Tiere. Etwa einen Elefanten.
Es gab dort viele Tiere. Einen Elefanten etwa.

[long whale]

And they don't really mean the same to us, not to mention it's quite unidiomatic... The 2nd one implies your hands are kind of... separate from your body. 😅

[plush pelican]

No, and I assumed they were different, which is precisely why I gave them to show that there must doch be rules for when to put it before or after.

[signal cipher]

https://youtu.be/yu9irqGBvn8?si=AX6gpfffKqo9mMIC

[plush pelican]

the one with "meine Hände" implies your hands are separate from your body?

[long whale]

Let's see how nova feels about it...

[pure crescent]

For the second meaning, etwa=ca., I feel like post-noun etwa is far more colloquial. like someone saying "das kostet zehn Euro" and only then remembering they don't know for sure, so they tack on an etwa after the fact. but in 99% of cases I would use etwa before.

[plush pelican]

wait, wait

Can you go back and tell me which meaning is which, specifically?

etwa = circa vs. etwa = zum Beispiel?

which one is "Auf Instagram etwa"?

zum Beispiel?

[long whale]

2nd z. B.

[plush pelican]

So there it's nothing to do with "approximately", but rather "zum Beispiel"?

[pure crescent]

Susana! nice to see you again 🙂
agree, ich wasche meine Hände implies they're separate. what, did you take off your hands and put them in a dishwasher? good for you

[plush pelican]

Does "etwa auf Instagram" make sense, and if so, what does it mean?

[signal cipher]

Is it colloquial

[plush pelican]

I would bet youths who are heavily English-influenced use it more

[long whale]

That's what nova was talking about here: #questions-2 message (which I agree with, btw) ;)

[plush pelican]

So "etwa auf Instagram" and "auf Instagram etwa" are both "zum Beispiel", with subtle differences?

[clear gulch]

was

[plush pelican]

and afterwards might be used more in like news articles?

[long whale]

It's where I'd always put it. 🤷

[plush pelican]

Was ist der Unterschied zwischen "Auf Instagram etwa findet sich ein Beitrag" und "Etwa auf Instagram findet sich ein Beitrag"?

[long whale]

2nd feels... awkward.

[plush pelican]

But you generally like things a bit more formal, right?

[long whale]

Maybe, but still... this particular one doesn't just feel "subtly more colloquial", it just feels unidiomatic/awkward to me.

[plush pelican]

Also: Can you do both before and after for the "circa/approximately" meaning?

[long whale]

Nova also commented on that, so, not really, no. It would come before.

[plush pelican]

an dieser Stelle etwa geschah das Unglück
etwa in der Mitte des Zimmers blieb er stehen

DWDS gives these examples. Aren't these both "circa/approximately"?

[signal cipher]

https://yourdailygerman.com/etwa-meaning-etwas/

[plush pelican]

whoops, yeah, I'm still catching up to realizing everything nova was saying

I had thought all of it was just "circa/approximately" before

[long whale]

The 1st... if you said "ein Unglück" instead, it would depend on context/the rest of the sentence whether it meant ca. or z. B.

[pure crescent]

[Es gibt viele Beiträge über das Thema.] Einer dieser Beiträge findet sich etwa auf Instagram 😁would be a non-awkward way to use etwa-noun here. One of these posts can be found on Instagram, for instance.

[plush pelican]

What if you want to mean etwa = circa/approximately? This post is on Instagram (or something like that, one of those social media sites)

[pure crescent]

I checked the dwds entry for etwa just to make sure I'm not missing anything. I didn't miss anything, but I did find the "etwa (particle)" entry, and while reading THAT entry I thought "well if I were learning German this would be the point where I would give up" 🥲

[plush pelican]

[pure crescent]

you wouldn't use it like that. etwa = approximately is pretty much tied to approximating numbers/amounts/distances. IMHO (?)

[plush pelican]

"an dieser Stelle etwa" that's having to do with "Ortsbestimmung", right?

How about "Auf Instagram oder so"?

[long whale]

Feels far more colloquial to me.

[pure crescent]

https://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/etwa_eventuell this monster would be my nemesis for sure 😩

[plush pelican]

What is the non-colloquial version, just to write out "Auf Instagram oder irgendeiner Social-Media-Webseite"?

Btw: im Internet, but auf Instagram?

[long whale]

irgendeiner (anderen) - Well... ehh... "etwa". 😄

[pure crescent]

Wenn Sie süße Katzenbilder suchen, ist Instagram oder eine andere Social Media-Plattform eine passende Anlaufstelle. 😁

[long whale]

Seems to be the consensus, yeah.

[plush pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/ok-sad-sobbign-sobbing-meme-gif-26526339

[signal cipher]

On a page. You act like it’s paper.

[plush pelican]

the internet is also paper, 😛

[pure crescent]

The kids use "auf Insta" too. I think that's also an English abbreviation too, right?

[plush pelican]

On the internet, on Instagram

[plush pelican]

yes

[signal cipher]

Internet is web

Webpage is similar to newspaper

[long whale]

I'd say that's the way we think about it, yes, but as to it being logical... 😹

[pure crescent]

Mach mal Insta auf, ich hab dir was geschickt
Geh mal auf Insta, ich hab dir was geschickt
Check mal dein Insta, ich hab dir was geschickt

[plush pelican]

God, someone linked which preposition to use for traveling to different places

I'm never going to memorize all that

[signal cipher]

I remember the times before internet. Nostalgia 😭

[plush pelican]

Are you older than I thought, or did the internet come to your town later than in the US?

[signal cipher]

I am old 🤘

[plush pelican]

In the US, nobody under 25 really remembers a time "before internet"

[long whale]

From what I've seen of your writing, you already know most of these, anyway. 🍪

[pure crescent]

when I was a kid there was this website that translated all Internet lingo to German. it was a satire on hardcore conservatives (long story way too hard to explain without context). I laughed my ass off at these texts.

"Im Internetz kann man Stehsegeln. Zumindest mit einem Rechner der Marke Winzigwich ist das sehr löblich." etc

that was horror and I'm glad we use english loanwords

even if prepositions etc are a bit random now 😂

[long whale]

Isn't that r/ichiel? That still exists, I think...

[plush pelican]

you mean the practice of Eindeutschung is seen as something conservative?

[pure crescent]

this was long before ich_iel's founder was even a speck of sperm 😩

[long whale]

I'm definitely older than any of you, and I've only ever seen it done as a joke. 🤷

[signal cipher]

I was playing football when I saw her.
Which tense would fit better for the first part?

A clause which creates time reference.

[plush pelican]

I immediately think of the am-Progressiv, personally, but that's probably my English bias

I heard you can also add "gerade", even in the past tense

[signal cipher]

But which past

[plush pelican]

like, "Ich habe gerade Fußball gespielt, als ich sie sah."

[plush pelican]

Perfekt and Präteritum, I think

maybe also Plusquamperfekt, except in real life people rarely use it

[signal cipher]

Both are good?

[plush pelican]

Are you asking which past tense one should use for this sentence?

[signal cipher]

Yes

[plush pelican]

That depends on where you are writing/saying it

[long whale]

A non-colloquial way of saying this would be "Ich war gerade dabei[,] Fußball zu spielen, als ich sie sah"

[pure crescent]

when it's about well established loanwords from English, it was... in my childhood. today not so much anymore.

[plush pelican]

"Ich war am Fußballspielen" is so much easier to type, though 😛

[plush pelican]

Perfekt is used when speaking and when talking casually, including online in forums or on Discord or the like.

Präteritum is used in more formal/more book'ish/more newspaper kind of situations

[signal cipher]

I was doing homework when she was playing?

[plush pelican]

@pure crescent @long whale What do y'all think of the use of "gerade" with the Perfekt, like I said before?

[long whale]

während

[pure crescent]

Sie spielte. Ich machte währenddessen meine Hausaufgaben. Ergo: Die Welt ist ungerecht. 😁

[plush pelican]

"Ich habe gerade Fußball gespielt, als ich sie sah."

[signal cipher]

But which tense

[long whale]

Präteritum for writing, Perfekt for speaking. As per usual.

[signal cipher]

What about the idea of Argus? Am progressive?

[plush pelican]

exception: when writing casually (like on forums or texting or something), you still use Perfekt

[signal cipher]

When graffiti?

[long whale]

It is not acceptable in Standard German. 🤷

[plush pelican]

I think this is a generational thing 😛

Laut Duden wird sie inzwischen „teilweise schon als standardsprachlich angesehen“

[pure crescent]

that would have a different meaning than using während/am constructions

[long whale]

Of course you'd use Präteritum in formal emails!

[plush pelican]

Tell me more 🙏

[signal cipher]

It’s weird that both tenses mean same 😦

[pure crescent]

Gerade als ich mit dem Putzen fertig war, explodierte die Kaffeemaschine. Scheiße. => just in the exact moment as a happened, b happened => really puts the emphasis on the simultaneousness

[signal cipher]

So it’s genau for time?

[plush pelican]

But isn't the "als" putting emphasis on that as well? Can you do it where the "gerade" isn't in the "als" Nebensatz?

[signal cipher]

Als just gives it was in past as I know

[long whale]

I'm not quite sure you know what you're talking about? Plusquamperfekt is only used for consecutive past events. It's never a stylistic choice. 🤷

[plush pelican]

As far as I know, there is never a time when you use Plusquamperfekt instead of Präteritum, FYI.

[signal cipher]

Wenn present and future. Als past. But not for whenever. Wenn is used for whenever even in past.

[plush pelican]

"als" is used when it is a singular event in the past

[signal cipher]

So when it was multiple?

[long whale]

Not really. The "gerade" means sth like "the instant I was done cleaning, it exploded", I'd say.

[pure crescent]

hm, can't think of an example 🤔 all gerade examples I can think of are not used in that sense

[plush pelican]

"Ich war gerade dabei, Fußball zu spielen"

There, you've got "gerade" in the past without "als"

[plain umbra]

Als is for a singular event or a period of time. Wenn is when it's a repeated/habitual event.

[pure crescent]

so what role does gerade play here? Ich war dabei, Fußball zu spielen, als plötzlich ein Satellit vom Himmel fiel. is fully functional. gerade here only supports "EXACTLY in that moment"

[signal cipher]

So whenever

[plain umbra]

Sure, that's one translation.

[plush pelican]

Let me see if I can find where I heard about "gerade" like this

[signal cipher]

Wherever whatever we meant to be together

[long whale]

Yeah. Präteritum for writing - unless you're chatting/texting/emailing a friend.

[signal cipher]

Danke schön

[pure crescent]

email is schriftlich 😀

[plush pelican]

This isn't where I've seen it, but Hammer's German Grammar does talk about this a bit. Note the usage of like, "Ich habe ihn letzthin zweimal in der Woche gesehen" = I have been seeing him twice a week (recently)

[pure crescent]

I must disagree with Susana slightly - perfekt is fine in emails in certain contexts I think, not only friends and family. it depends. e.g. my company is small and very colloquial, so we write business emails in perfekt to each other. and marketing emails like newsletters etc are often in perfekt as well. but in more formal companies, or with other companies, you would always präteritum the hell out of that email.

[long whale]

Yeah, might be because I'm lazy - "Als ich deine Email las" is so much shorter... 😄

[plush pelican]

Speaking of which: "In manchen Fällen wäre es im Deutschern aber eher unüblich, das Wort gerade zu benutzen. Dann lässt du es vielleicht lieber weg und benutzt nur das Präteritum."

[long whale]

Ehh... "... nahm ich eine Dusche"? WTF?

[pure crescent]

LETZTHIN!!!

now that has fallen out of usage massively

[plush pelican]

Uh oh... are you saying their German is bad?

I got that from here: https://www.studienkreis.de/englisch/past-progressive-anwendung/

[pure crescent]

extremely Anglo-style expression 😁

[plush pelican]

https://www.kapiert.de/englisch/klasse-5-6/sprache/verbenzeitformen-vergangenheit/die-verlaufsform-der-vergangenheit-past-progressive/

there, they seem to really like the "dabei sein" expression

[pure crescent]

But Susana, OP uses "schellen" maybe this is a weird regional thing like "schellen". isn't an der Tür schellen Austrian? maybe Austrian do take showers

[long whale]

I'd be surprised... 😹 Austro-Anglosaxon, then?

[plush pelican]

https://www.englisch-hilfen.de/grammar/past_prog.htm

[long whale]

Yup, I said. It's the 'traditional', non-colloquial version. 🤷

[plush pelican]

that's so incredibly clunky

[pure crescent]

I checked dwds and schellen is "landschaftlich" 😂😂 so I guess this is a rural term

[plush pelican]

https://online-lernen.levrai.de/englisch/englisch_zeiten/past_progressive/01_past_progressive_regeln.htm

In these examples, "gerade" helps convey the Gleichzeitigkeit, right?

[long whale]

Getting confused here... The 2nd isn't something I can hear myself saying. 🤔

[signal cipher]

Do you think any other example which we use prepositional adverb with zu infinitive

[plush pelican]

Or are these sort of contrived sentences that are only used to help with the English meaning, but wouldn't be used normally in German?

[long whale]

That's what I was thinking, yes.

[plush pelican]

remind me again what a prepositional adverb is, like dazu, dafür?

[signal cipher]

Yes

[plush pelican]

Do you mean the prepositional adverb should be inside the Infinitivsatz, or in the main clause?

[signal cipher]

No. Like your dabei examples

[plush pelican]

You can have a prepositional adverb in the main clause whenever the Infinitivsatz itself is functioning as the object of the main clause.

Ich bereite mich darauf vor, meiner Schwester zu helfen.

[pure crescent]

I think gerade is really most common in that meaning with als. Gerade als x passierte, passierte y. That's a very natural way to use it. I stand by gerade als.

[plush pelican]

"sich auf etwas vorbereiten" that's a verb + preposition combination, so when the object is an entire Infinitivsatz, you use "darauf" to point forward to that clause, it's a placeholder, like a pointer in programming

[long whale]

Apart from what? I mean, you'd always use it if you had the kind of construction which requires a zu-infinitive, plus a prepositional adverb: Es ist keine gute Idee, dafür zu stimmen. Es ist ein Problem, damit umzugehen. No?

[pure crescent]

meiner

[plush pelican]

I knew I was missing something somewhere

[signal cipher]

I wondered example like this @long whale

[plush pelican]

oh

that's kind of a fixed phrase

"dabei sein"

[long whale]

"dabei sein, etwas zu tun", yeah.

= to be doing something

Was machst du gerade? - Ich bin dabei, die Fenster zu putzen.

[plush pelican]

Feels like German has to work around its lack of a continuous tense 😛

[signal cipher]

Ich hoffe damit, zu spielen?

[long whale]

comma placement

[signal cipher]

Ich hoffe, damit zu Spielen

[plush pelican]

So you wouldn't ever really use "gerade" in the past to express Gleichzeitigkeit generally, only specifically for "just"?

What about in the present tense? You'd use it there, right?

Mach deine Hausaufgaben!

Ich zocke gerade!

[long whale]

spielen, yes.

[plush pelican]

"mit etwas spielen"

[signal cipher]

I wrote spielen too

[long whale]

*Hausaufgaben (rarely used in singular)

[signal cipher]

Oh small letter

[plush pelican]

So there it's "I hope, to play with that"

[signal cipher]

Tiny miny letter.

[pure crescent]

oh no that's all good

[plush pelican]

But suddenly it's weird in past tense? 😄

What about future tense? 😮

[long whale]

Sure we would. 🤔 Ich war gerade auf dem Heimweg, als mir auffiel, dass...

[plush pelican]

Maybe I've misunderstood Nova, then

or maybe you two disagree

[signal cipher]

I got my daily grammar dose. Now i will study vocabulary.

[pure crescent]

Start a petition to use Partizip I the same way as English uses present participle and then we'll talk again.

[plush pelican]

I had a book that I swear did that

it was written by a German author (self-published)

Let me see if I can find a good passage

[pure crescent]

I think my point was that the gerade als > ich war dabei when you're not trying to be colloquial that's all:)

[plush pelican]

Yeah, I'm no good at finding individual passages in this book

[pure crescent]

A famous joke poem does it

Dunkel war’s, der Mond schien helle,
schneebedeckt die grüne Flur,
als ein Wagen blitzesschnelle,
langsam um die Ecke fuhr.

Drinnen saßen stehend Leute,
schweigend ins Gespräch vertieft,
als ein totgeschoss’ner Hase
auf der Sandbank Schlittschuh lief.

Drinnen saßen stehend Leute is a pretty hefty use imo

[plush pelican]

What's wrong with "stehende Leute"?

[pure crescent]

as I always read it, the stehend expresses simultaneousness to the saßen

[plush pelican]

wait, how does that all work with "saßen", 😮

[pure crescent]

Minecraft spielend aß ich ein Sandwich

[pure crescent]

that's the joke about it, the poem is all about impossibilities

[signal cipher]

Hervor
I couldn’t understand this.
Okay it means from back to front. But what about this example:
Hervor mit euch

[plush pelican]

I think it's mostly a prefix for separable verbs, isn't it?

"hervorbringen"

[signal cipher]

It is used 41 times alone in a book

[plush pelican]

Have you looked at these times to see how many are separable verbs?

[signal cipher]

Some may be separated thing

But not all

[plush pelican]

give some examples where they aren't, please

and remember to give the entire sentence, plus a sentence before and after, if possible

[signal cipher]

I can’t it’s hard to find.
Hervor mit euch.
This is an examples from google

[plush pelican]

I think that's a more dated usage, it sounds like it's older

[fervent kernel]

Nach ihrer Tasche greifend läuft Frau Kunze zur Tür .
Why is greifend used like this in this sentence?
I'm used to seeing partizip i as an adjective
For example das schlafende Kind

[long whale]

It's just another use for Partizip I - one you'll mainly see in writing, I don't think we ever really use it in speaking.

"Grabbing her bag, Ms Kunze..."

[minor jay]

Because you are describing that she's in the motion of grabbing something, while reaching the door. It's just a way of using a verb as describing adjective

True. It's more a literature thing

[fervent kernel]

Understood thx

[old roost]

is solche an informal word or I can use it in formal writing?

[long whale]

It isn't slang, but in formal writing, I'd go for "derartige", instead.

[minor jay]

Solche is legit for me.

I use it quite often myself.

[plush pelican]

(Nach ihrer Tasche greifend) is a separate clause, a Partizipialsatz, a special type of Nebensatz

https://www.deutschplus.net/en/pages/480/1386

I believe there should be a comma after "greifend", btw

[plush pelican]

The fun part is when you get an entire Partizipialsatz shoved into the space of an adjective, 😅

Der überraschend langsam laufende Mann

= der Mann, der überraschend langsam läuft.

[long whale]

I think it's optional in these cases...

[plush pelican]

Hammer's agrees with you

[fervent kernel]

What happens when it's with a reflexiv verb?
Do I remove the sich?
Das sich verlaufende ist Jetzt wieder bei seinen Eltern
Das sich verlaufende Kind...

[minor jay]

Das sich verlaufende Kind ist jetzt wieder bei seinen Eltern.

This

What would make more sense is:

Das Kind, welches sich ständig verläuft, ist wieder bei seinen Eltern.

[fervent kernel]

Verstanden
Thank you

[charred shuttle]

What's the fastest internet speed provider in Heidelberg?

[buoyant bridge]

idk but

[buoyant bridge]

dont go with vodafon they say we have high speed internet🤓 but no my family uses telekom its good

[charred shuttle]

Danke

[buoyant bridge]

i see here

there is a website what is your postleizahl?

[charred shuttle]

I haven't lived there actually

[buoyant bridge]

were do you plan living

[charred shuttle]

But currently I'm like preparing myself yk

[buoyant bridge]

ah ok

[charred shuttle]

Yes

Can you share the website?

[buoyant bridge]

yea ofc

https://www.verivox.de/lp/sea/dsl/?etcc_grp=3&etcc_par=bing&etcc_mty=b&etcc_key=internet vergleich berlin&etcc_bde=c&etcc_var=48638082518b1b88cb8ae6da23457188&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=bing&utm_campaign=[a:telco][n:search][c:generic][mt:phrase_broad]_neu&utm_term=internet vergleich berlin&utm_content=48638082518b1b88cb8ae6da23457188&campaignid=399565983&keyword=internet vergleichsportal&msclkid=48638082518b1b88cb8ae6da23457188

[buoyant bridge]

you can see here

[buoyant bridge]

for example the best inter provider is talekom

if u want good mobile data go with aldi talk🤫

like you get for 8 euros monthly 10gb

i use that

[charred shuttle]

Is there any difference between Telekom and Aldi Talk?

[buoyant bridge]

like i use mobile data aldi talk but internet at home telekom

wait lemme check prices

oh damn

[charred shuttle]

You mean Telekom is like for WiFi?

[buoyant bridge]

15 euros for 5 gigabyte

[buoyant bridge]

yes

[buoyant bridge]

they also offer mobile data but dont take that its to expensive

[charred shuttle]

Would you recommend taking only mobile data and not internet at home?

[buoyant bridge]

its depends

if u have a home then both

wifi 30euros mobile data 8 so 38 euro monthly

[charred shuttle]

You mean like a house?

[buoyant bridge]

yes

[charred shuttle]

Are there any places that offer free WiFi like cafés?

I mean are they common or

[buoyant bridge]

yea but only like 2 hours a day ussualy

[charred shuttle]

I see

[buoyant bridge]

but buy a router wifi

[charred shuttle]

If you rent wouldn't there usually free WiFi included?

[hushed dawn]

if i understood it correctly
bewerten is rating osmetihng based on experience
beurteilen is assessing something objectively, based on the given facts / infos about it
is this correct ?

[buoyant bridge]

nope

you have to buy it yourself

[buoyant bridge]

yes

[hushed dawn]

thanks

[buoyant bridge]

np

[charred shuttle]

Dang. In my country a lot of rented residences are Wi-Fi included so kinda new for me ngl

Thanks for the info

[buoyant bridge]

rent?

[charred shuttle]

Yes

[buoyant bridge]

you have to buy furniture wifi tv etc

[charred shuttle]

Yea

[buoyant bridge]

it sucks

[charred shuttle]

I heard people there have Tv tax so if I don't buy I won't get one wouldn't I?

[buoyant bridge]

you have to pay it doesnt matter

we dont use the tv but we have to ppay 39 euros

[charred shuttle]

Wth

Why

[buoyant bridge]

idk the goverment here is stingy

[charred shuttle]

Even when you rent you have to pay Tv tax??

[buoyant bridge]

dont forget half of your salary owns the govermen

t

[buoyant bridge]

yea

[charred shuttle]

Dang I'm not even working there

How do students live dang

[buoyant bridge]

but university is free

and salary is high

traveling is easy

[charred shuttle]

You're right

[buoyant bridge]

it has benefits

where are you from

[charred shuttle]

Basically bureaucracy and deutsche Bahn for the cost of those things you've said then

[charred shuttle]

Somewhere in Asia

[buoyant bridge]

where exactly?

country

nice

[charred shuttle]

I heard 3-hour Verspätung by die deutsche Bahn is common there

Is that true

Dang

[buoyant bridge]

yea

the need to fix that

they protest bc of salary

[charred shuttle]

Don't people expect punctuality all the time

If I arrive like 3 hours late because of the strike would people still get mad there??

[buoyant bridge]

yea..

no logic

but

if u a student you get free bus and train in your area

[charred shuttle]

What do people do when that happens then so that they arrive punctual all the time

[buoyant bridge]

just wait

lol

[charred shuttle]

Yeah that's nice

[buoyant bridge]

fr

[fervent kernel]

When verbalising a sentence, can I trotzem instead of obwohl?
Obwohl der Tatverdächtige mehrstündig von der Kriminalpolezei befragt wurde, Scheint er ein sicheres Alibi in der Hand zu haben.

So would it be grammatically correct if I write it like this
Trotzdem wurde der Tatverdächtige mehrstündig von der Kriminalpolezei befragt...

[long whale]

No, you'd have to change the word order to subordinate clause if you wanted to use "trotzdem" in this way - which would be a bit unusual, btw.

Also, in der Hand (it isn't used with Alibi)

[fervent kernel]

Ludaima sagt, ich möge ihr bitte das Buch bringen
Isn't möge konjuktiv i from mögen?
So why does this sentencd translate to: Ludaima says I should please bring her the book

[long whale]

Correct, it's Konjunktiv I. It's mostly used for reported speech, and this is what happened here. In English, "should" fulfills the same purpose: Ludaima: "Please bring me the book."

[fervent kernel]

Is there a difference between solle and möge?

[long whale]

To my knowledge, there is, yes. Ludaima: "Bring mir das Buch!" -"Ludaima sagte, ich solle..."

[fervent kernel]

I don't understand "möge" fully. It's from mögen which translates to "to like"
Why does it translate to "should" in this context?

[long whale]

Modal verbs are pretty weird (in English, in German, and in some other languages). Their translation/use/meaning tends to change around in unexpected ways. Think: "May I sit here?" means "Am I allowed/Will you allow me to sit here?", right? But then, you get "Long may he live!", and it means something like "We hope he'll live long" or "We wish him a long life" -> I'd recommend accepting this as is, and I promise, you'll get used to it in time.

[fervent kernel]

Alright. thanks

[serene mountain]

Why does Wie which means 'What' is also Welche?

Is it like like Wo being like Woher?

[plush pelican]

"Wie" doesn't mean "what", it's just that German uses "how" in the phrase, "How are you called?"

some phrases do not translate word for word

[serene mountain]

Alrighty 👍

What about the Welche part?

[rich prism]

Welche means which

[serene mountain]

I have another question, the 'Wo kommst du?' du comes after the verb in questions but it comes before the noun in questions eg 'Ist er Kellner?'

[plush pelican]

"Woher kommst du*" or "Wo kommst du her?"

[plush pelican]

Is English your native language?

It's very similar

[serene mountain]

Yes

[plush pelican]

Are you sure about his job?

Where are you going?

are is the first verb in those questions

[serene mountain]

Indeed so

[plush pelican]

For questions, you reverse verb and subject ("Are you sure")

unless there is a Question word, a w- word

wo, wie, warum, etc

that comes before the verb

Just like in English: "Where are you going?"

The only thing that is different is that for certain questions, English uses "do", and German doesn't

Where English uses "do + verb", German just uses the main verb

Do you like him?

Magst du ihn?
Literally: Like you him?

You can think of this like Elizabethan English:

Likest thou him?

[serene mountain]

Ngl, I am struggling to wrap my head around it

[plush pelican]

around which part?

[serene mountain]

Why does the du and kommst flip over

[plush pelican]

You are coming.
Are you coming?

We do it in English as well, man.

[serene mountain]

Oh I guess

[plush pelican]

Note that only the first verb gets flipped

Du hast ihm geholfen.
Hast du ihm geholfen?

You have helped him.
Have you helped him?

[serene mountain]

Ah ok

So with 'Ist er Kellner?' has anything been flipped?

I guess so because it would be 'Is he a waiter?'

Of which if it was a statement it would be 'Er ist Kellner.'

'He is a waiter'

Am I correct?

[serene mountain]

Grand, so where does the exceptions of the -W's come in?

[plush pelican]

? I just said it

If there is a question word, a w-word, it comes before the verb

[gloomy tartan]

I just read this sentence and found it freakin awesome. Is this really something you'd say in German? Or is it really quite stale like in English?
Er unterzog das Problem einer Lösung

"He subjected the problem to a solution" ^^

[serene mountain]

Ok, quick question how would you say 'Where do you come from waiter?'

Also thank you so much for the help, very grateful

[plush pelican]

Why are you addressing someone as "waiter"?

https://www.deepl.com/en/translator#en/de/Where do you come from%2C waiter%3F

[serene mountain]

Because I have decided to be very rude to this waiter and want to know where he comes from

Ok, perfect. That's how I thought it would be 🙏

[tiny scaffold]

Did he grate you too harshly? ba dm tss

[fervent kernel]

Sergio will eine Bank überfalllen haben.
Sergio hat eine Bank überfallen wollen .
Could someone explain the differences between the sentences.
I don't understand the 2nd sentence.

[dusk quiver]

Hello guys A1 student here. What i am confused about is, the pronounciation of e at the end. Is the pronounciation of komme in the video valid cause i am also taught same in my physical class. But in other videos german people seems to pronounce it 'ah'

[hollow hornet]

Swiss and Austrians say "eh" (and I believe also Bavarians (?) )

[rich prism]

I think it's just the accent of that person

But it's not wrong

[dusk quiver]

Yeah i just had confusion cause alot of german youtubers pronounce the other way

[plush pelican]

The first one is the subjective use of modal verbs.

It's easier to talk about "sollen" first.

Sergio soll eine Bank überfallen haben.

Here, other people have claimed that Sergio has robbed a bank. "sollen" is like "allegedly" here
Sergio has allegedly held up a bank.

You will see this often in the news. Someone other than Sergio claims he has robbed a bank. The journalist does not know if it is true or not, so they put "soll" to indicate they're just repeating a claim.

Then you have "wollen"

Sergio will eine Bank überfallen haben.

Here, Sergio himself has claimed that he robbed a bank.
Nevertheless, you're not sure if he's telling the truth. Perhaps he is a casual liar who makes up stories that make him sound more gangster or something. You use "wollen" to indicate you're just repeating his claim.

The 2nd sentence you gave is normal use of modal verb, "wollen" = want. It's the same thing as "Sergio wollte eine Bank überfallen." = Sergio wanted to rob a bank (but didn't).

The difference is, "hat...wollen" is Perfekt instead of the normal Präteritum "wollte". Also, the modal verbs are special, because they use the Ersatzinfinitiv/double infinitive for their Perfekt forms. But I already linked that earlier, didn't I?

Ah, that was someone else asking about this. Here, I'll link it again: https://www.colanguage.com/double-infinitive-german

"subjective use of modal verbs" is like a B2/C1 level topic, btw. The resources that you can find on it are mostly in German. Idk what your level is, but if you want more information, you'll mostly have to learn about it in German.

@rich prism I don't fully understand when verbs can't be used in passive

[rich prism]

😭

[plush pelican]

Here is one website on it, but nobody ever seems to give a single rule that covers everything

https://mein-deutschbuch.de/nicht-passivfaehige-verben.html

[rich prism]

Idk I'm ising hammer's german

[plush pelican]

It seems more like, "okay, we managed to group the verbs we can't use passive with into...these loose categories"

[uncut cove]

Okay, "Do you have the Pizza with the ham?
I would like that."
I can translate the 1st sentence
"Haben Sie die Pizza mit Schinken?"
Now how do I translate the rest of the sentence??
"Ich hätte das gerne." Seems wrong to me

[plush pelican]

The website says those categories include:

• verbs of movement
• verbs of change of condition
• the verb group with "sein", including darstellen and bedeuten
• all reflexive verbs
• impersonal verbs formed with "es", like "es gibt", "es regnet"
• the verb group of knowing: wissen, kennen, erfahren
• modal verbs when acting as full verbs
• verbs with an indication of quantity as an accusative object
• the verb group with "haben/bekommen"

[plush pelican]

Your English sentence is a bit confusing. Are you asking if they possess a pizza with ham, or are you asking if they would like to order a pizza with ham?

[uncut cove]

In a Restaurant scenario

[plush pelican]

Who is speaking?

[rich prism]

No, it wouldn't mean the second one

[plush pelican]

Is a customer asking if pizza with ham is available to order?

[uncut cove]

I am asking the Waiter

[uncut cove]

Yeah yeah

[plush pelican]

okay

[rich prism]

Yk, when I understand passiv I'll get here.

[plush pelican]

https://www.deepl.com/en/translator#en/de/Do you have pizza with ham%3F I'd like to order some.

Seems there's a lot of options for the 2nd sentence

I know in restaurant scenarios, you often say, "Ich hätte gerne X"

https://www.thegermanproject.com/german-lessons/restaurant

[uncut cove]

How is "Die" coming at the start of the sentence

Can die mean "that"??

[plush pelican]

Are you seeing something different than me?

[plush pelican]

yes, it can

[uncut cove]

But how though

[plush pelican]

? That didn't work

[plush pelican]

Yeah, so have you learned about relative clauses yet?

[uncut cove]

...nope

[plush pelican]

well, that's another topic to add to the list, 😅

[rich prism]

Die is referring to the pizza in the 1st sentence

[plush pelican]

let's start by using "sie" instead

"Haben Sie die Pizza mit Schinken? Ich hätte sie gerne."

[uncut cove]

I'll Update the list lol

[plush pelican]

die Pizza = feminine
"sie" = feminine pronoun

"sie" refers back to the pizza

[uncut cove]

Yeah understood that part

[plush pelican]

German has a loose word order, so you can switch stuff up

"Haben Sie die Pizza mit Schinken? Sie hätte ich gerne."

[uncut cove]

Verstanden

[plush pelican]

Now, you haven't learned about relative clauses, but basically, in one aspect of German, you can use "der/die/das" like pronouns

and Germans seem to have spread this to include even in normal main clauses

so "die" = "sie" here

[uncut cove]

I should follow my grammer book instead of trying to understand this right now right??

[plush pelican]

"Haben Sie die Pizza mit Schinken? Die hätte ich gerne."

[plush pelican]

sure

Do whatever you like

[uncut cove]

Is it a lengthy topic??

[plush pelican]

relative pronouns? Well, you shouldn't try to learn them before you know about cases

nominative, accusative, dative, genitive

[uncut cove]

I think I have a decent idea about case System

Except Genitiv

[plush pelican]

Then yeah, you could look into it

[pure crescent]

an irrelevant aside: Haben Sie die Pizza mit Schinken is very unidiomatic. I can imagine saying that while I'm pointing at a picture of a pizza with ham. like "do you have this particular ham pizza". but normally it would just be Haben Sie Pizza mit Schinken? = Do you have (=serve) pizza with ham [ in general]?

Haben Sie Lasagne?
Haben Sie gemischten Salat?
Haben Sie Vanilleeis?
etc. always without article

[uncut cove]

I'll look it up, thanks

[plush pelican]

Wow, just the addition of "die" makes it so unidiomatic? 😭

I'm never going to master this language

[plush pelican]

I have some videos on it

[uncut cove]

What is unidiomatic lmaooo

[plush pelican]

https://youtu.be/sHtLxUax7Qc?si=BxmFgyHDaNCeDoYd

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jz1nRBI9ylw

[uncut cove]

I'll take whatever you can provide

[uncut cove]

Danke schön

[pure crescent]

idiomatic = expressions natural to native speakers

(adjective)

[plush pelican]

That channel has some more videos on relative clauses with dative and genitive, as well

[uncut cove]

Ooooooohhh

[pure crescent]

applies to other shops too

Haben Sie Schrauben? (im Baumarkt)
Haben Sie die Schrauben? while pointing at an ad they sent me with a particular type of screws being 50% off

Haben Sie Mützen? (im Bekleidungsgeschäft)

Haben Sie Bio-Eier? (im Supermarkt)

[pure crescent]

so unidiomatic as I understand it (?) is a construction that's not necessarily grammatically wrong... but nobody would say/use it.
of course sometimes these things vary between native speakers, due to regional, urban/rural, age,... differences, but this isn't one of those cases I hope 😄

[uncut cove]

Me when I try to speak German

[fervent kernel]

Thank you for this!
An example in the link that you sent was
Ich habe dieses Buch lesen müssen.
How do I know that it means, I had to read this book and not I must have read this book?

[plush pelican]

habe...müssen = musste
Perfekt = Präteritum

[fervent kernel]

I must have read this book
Ich müsste das Buch lesen haben?

[plush pelican]

Just swap it out, and the meaning will be clear, 😄

[plush pelican]

Ich müsste dieses Buch gelesen haben or
Ich muss dieses Buch gelesen haben.

How well do you understand spoken German?

https://youtu.be/V3EaDpAMMWE?si=Rm6BlFZ3lZ_r_TYl

[fervent kernel]

You could send a video no problem

[plush pelican]

Here's a video on it

You can also look up more yourself: "subjektive Bedeutung der Modalverben"

Again, this is a B2/C1 level topic

[fervent kernel]

I know

[plush pelican]

The other thing is, "lesen" versus "gelesen"

The English is confusing here, because our present tense "read" and past tense "read" are spelled the same, but the pronunciation is different

I must have read this book.
Here, "read" is past tense, that means = gelesen
Ich muss dieses Buch gelesen haben.

I had to read this book.
Here, "read" is infinitive, "to read", = lesen, and it is pronounced like present tense "read"
Ich habe dieses Buch lesen müssen.
or
Ich musste dieses Buch lesen.

You can try it with another verb that's not as confusing in English: helfen.

Ich muss ihr geholfen haben.
I must have helped her.

Ich habe ihr helfen müssen.
I had to help her.

Ich musste ihr helfen.
I had to help her.

[plush pelican]

Here's an example of subjective meaning of "wollen" in a news article, just saw it randomly: https://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/netzpolitik/ki-von-openai-chatgpt-entwickler-enttarnen-mehrere-staatliche-desinformations-kampagnen-a-0b8a1403-2c26-458a-b220-cd02807477e4

[shadow cape]

Rammstein

[plush pelican]

"The net flooded with fraudulent content: state-supported actors have used the AI of OpenAI for disinformation. The ChatGPT-Developer has now allegedly stopped five campaigns."

Die ChatGPT-Entwickler wollen nun fünf Kampagnen gestoppt haben.

They use "wollen" because this is according to the company's own reports, so the information cannot be independently verified.

[fervent kernel]

I got a grasp of it.
Just have to know the differences of meaning when sentences are with the other modal verbs .

[plush pelican]

You mean, the subjective meanings of the other modal verbs?

[fervent kernel]

Yes
You already explained them above...
I'll take a look at them one more time

[fervent kernel]

.

[plush pelican]

Verneinung = negation

note the "nein"

1. What level are you?
2. How much of the spoken German did you understand?

I already have

It's Perfekt

Did you read my explanation above?

Check this out: https://www.colanguage.com/double-infinitive-german

[fervent kernel]

I think it's
Ich habe ihr helfen müssen.

[plush pelican]

Ersatzinfinitiv/double infinitive results in weird stuff with Perfekt tense

It's called "double infinitive" because, as you see, there are 2 verbs in infinitive form, which normally doesn't make sense

[fervent kernel]

No when there's another verb it's used wih infinitive
Ich habe Deutsch gekonnt
Ich habe Deutsch sprechen können.

[rich prism]

Where can I find the conjugation of beide, andere, alle, solche etc

[plush pelican]

@wet nova Read this website

[rich prism]

What are they called, like what part of grammar is it

[plush pelican]

Who said there was a purpose?

That's just how German does things

Why does German use "ich" for "I"?

I don't know, it just does

The website...told you...

"The double infinitive is used in combination with the following verbs."

"The double infinitive is used with certain verbs, especially with modal verbs, when these are conjugated to compound times (Perfekt, Plusquamperfekt) or to Futur I. Let's see in the following chapters how you should use the double infinitive in different situations."

You're not reading closely, bro

🤔

Now we're getting into the nitty gritty

now we're getting into the complicated stuff

[rich prism]

Ihr hättet nicht _____. (You did not have to come.)

None of the answers there worked

[plush pelican]

kommen müssen.

nicht müssen = no obligation

[rich prism]

they put it as wrong

That's what I picked

[plush pelican]

What did they say was right? Also, who is "they"?

at the end of the double infinitive page?

[rich prism]

None, must be an error

[plush pelican]

LOL, they forgot to have any solution

Note the dot in the right to show the solution

They didn't have anything for that one, they misclicked or something and didn't select which answer was right.

[rich prism]

None worked

[rich prism]

Yea

[plush pelican]

well, yeah, "kommen müssen" was right, I do believe

[rich prism]

Pls

[plush pelican]

Indefinitpronomen, I think

not sure

[rich prism]

Thanks

[rich prism]

It is

[plush pelican]

yeah https://language-easy.org/de/grammatik/pronomen/indefinitpronomen/

ah, yes, you can

https://german.stackexchange.com/questions/26479/gibt-es-einen-passiv-ersatzinfinitiv

Der Wagen hat nicht bewegt werden können.

God, what a complicated tense

😅

So anytime you see "hat...können" or something like that

just think of the modal verb in Präteritum

Der Wagen konnte nicht bewegt werden. = Der Wagen hat nicht bewegt werden können.

Because of course, Perfekt = Präteritum in terms of meaning

nobody uses futur 2

There was a question where someone asked a linguist on this

and the linguist had to derive it, because even he was unsure

https://blog.leo.org/2019/12/06/passiv-futur-ii-mit-modalverb/

passive, future 2, with a modal verb

[rich prism]

So what is the equivalent of Sie hätten nicht kommen müssen.

[plush pelican]

well, so that's something different, because there you're dealing with not Perfekt, but Konjunktiv 2

I'm not sure there's an "easier" alternative

But you already have heard of "hätte...können" and "hätte...sollen", right?

[rich prism]

Yea

[plush pelican]

Ich hätte das nicht machen sollen. = I shouldn't have done that

same idea

Ich hätte das nicht machen müssen. = I didn't need to do that.

[rich prism]

Also double infinitiv is always used with haben right?

[plush pelican]

no

[rich prism]

Or werden

[plush pelican]

the helping verb is whatever helping verb the modal verb has

it just so happens they all have "haben"

[rich prism]

Oh ok

[plush pelican]

Like I said, even the linguist had to derive the result, because it was used so rarely in real life that even he was unsure how to form the tense

[vernal ermine]

Hello friends!

When we use Lass uns and Lasst uns?

[charred shuttle]

Are you allowed to work part-time as a university student taking Medizin in Germany?

[plush pelican]

Imperative has different forms depending on who you are giving the command to

https://grammar.collinsdictionary.com/de/deutsch-grammatik-lernen/how-do-you-form-the-imperative-in-german

[vernal ermine]

But why is uns is same for both ?

[plush pelican]

Du bist ein Mann.
Ihr seid Männer.
Sie sind ein Mann.

Why is the verb different there?

Same reason: conjugation

a conjugated verb always has to match with its subject, even when it is used in imperative form

[vernal ermine]

Lass uns gehen
Lasst uns gehen

Here lass is conjugated according to subject but uns is usually associated with wir but why is it comes here and same for both?

[plush pelican]

You don't use "Lasst" for the second one

it doesn't match with "uns"

well

I suppose it depends what you mean

If you're saying, "allow us to leave"

then sure, "lassen" can be anything, depending on who you are giving the command to

[vernal ermine]

If you responding to was sollen wir heute machen? How will you response using lassen? @plush pelican

[plush pelican]

https://www.gutefrage.net/frage/wann-sagt-man-lass-uns-und-wann-lasst-uns

ahhhh

I partially misunderstood this myself

the "uns" is you + the people you are speaking to

the "lassen" conjugation matches just (the people are you speaking to)