questions-2

[autumn marsh]

dann würdest du da rein schreiben:

april2020 - dez2023 / arbeitgeber: mcdonalds / beschäftigung: manager

sollte so oder so ähnlich aber auch in den erläuterungen zum antrag stehen (siehe letzter satz), und vmtl brauchste darüber n nachweis, sowas wie arbeitsvertrag + kündigung o.ä.

daraus berechnet sich die höhe deines anspruchs

[frozen trail]

aber das at doch mit der Arbeitsbescheinigung etwas zu tuen? oder nicht?

danke dir vielmals

[autumn marsh]

hätte wohl eher sagen sollen: das hat damit zu tun, wie lange dein anspruch gewährt wird.

weiß es nicht genau, hab nie arbeitslosengeld erhalten, aber soweit ich weiß hat man nur für einen bestimmten zeitraum anspruch, bspw wenn man nur 6 monate gearbeitet hat, erhält man nicht den vollen zeitraum ALG1

also, den vollen möglichen Zeitraum

ergibt ja auch irgendwie sinn

[frozen trail]

ich verstehe danke dir @autumn marsh

[fervent kernel]

How does one say “I don’t care” in German? I heard “ich habe keine Lust mehr“ but I’m not sure if it’s the same

[autumn marsh]

really depends on the context ... without any context, i'd maybe go with: "(Das ist) mir egal"

[fervent kernel]

Spasibo

[pure walrus]

Was bedeutet Vortäuschung?

[long whale]

https://de.pons.com/übersetzung/deutsch-englisch/Vortäuschung

[silk nebula]

I’ve got some questions about a sentence I came across.

I saw “Ich weiß, dass er hätte kommen sollen.” Which was translated as “I know that he should have come.” I have about three questions about its exact construction. I would have written it as “ Ich weiß, dass er gekommen sein sollte.”

I know that dass is a subordinating conjunction, and so I’m curious as to why the conjugated verb here, hätte, is not at the end of the clause. I’m also curious about the forms used here, particularly the use of kommen as opposed to gekommen and the use of a form of haben as opposed to sein since I understand that the auxiliary of kommen is generally sein. Though since it appears that sollen isn’t the primary verb here, perhaps it’s what’s in the past tense and thus would have a haben auxiliary. Finally, the use of the subjunctive here is puzzling. Is it since he didn’t actually come and thus it’s hypothetical?

Thank you for anyone who can help me with some of this

[long whale]

Yes, it's Konjunktiv II (hätte), because it's hypothetical (he should have come, but didn't). What you've got here is called a double infinitive/doppelter Infinitiv, which, eh... is kind of self-explanatory: you don't use it with the past participle/Partizip 2, you use the infinitive -> kommen, not gekommen. And in this one particular case, the verbs remain in the same order, whether you've got a main clause (Er hätte kommen sollen) or a subordinate clause (... dass/weil er hätte kommen sollen).

Btw, this double infinitive thing only works with modal verbs (and a few other, "modal-like" verbs).

[silk nebula]

Ah thank you! So is this construction always used when you have three verbs in this sort of tense with a modal verb? Also is hätten always used here?

[long whale]

I think Konjunktiv II is the only one where it's really relevant, since we don't usually use modal verbs in Perfekt, at least not in Standard German.

[silk nebula]

Makes sense, thank you kindly for your assistance!

[plush pelican]

Here's a webpage on the double infinitive/Ersatzinfinitiv. If you go down near the bottom, they talk about the word order in a dependent clause being so weird.

https://www.colanguage.com/double-infinitive-german

[plush pelican]

I've seen it a lot in books

or at least, the most recent book I'm reading

Probably because of the usage of Plusquamperfekt for the past 🤔

[autumn marsh]

Er hätte schießen dürfen sollen

4 in a row, who can do more?

[plush pelican]

Can you just add another modal?

Er hätte schießen dürfen sollen können

?

Not sure if that makes sense

[autumn marsh]

er hätte schießen üben dürfen sollen

[autumn marsh]

I can't make sense of that but not sure, maybe I'm just thick

[plush pelican]

Es war im Raum so leise, dass man ihn eigentlich hätte atmen hören können sollen.

https://german.stackexchange.com/questions/59275/satz-mit-den-meisten-aufeinanderfolgenden-verben

[silk nebula]

Danke!

[vernal ermine]

What are hard and soft endings? Why they are called so? @plush pelican

[plush pelican]

That's a distinction Basementality made in her little guide to make things easier for you, she describes them in the guide

she literally has tables of both the hard endings and the soft endings

[vernal ermine]

@plush pelican I didn't understand what is weak nouns and also n declension bro

[plush pelican]

they're the same thing

So when you decline something, normally the noun doesn't change, right?

[vernal ermine]

Yes

[plush pelican]

let me show a pic one sec

die Wand = wall
die Wände = walls, plural

But you can see, "Wand" doesn't change depending on the case hardly at all. It only really changes in the specific situation of (Dativ, plural), where an -n gets added

If it's a masculine noun, there are slightly more changes for case

Specifically, in genitive you tend to add an -s or -es

der Hund
den Hund
dem Hund
des Hundes

for the plural, you have

die Hunde
die Hunde
den Hunden (dative, plural)
der Hunde

So again, there are some spots where the noun changes because of case, but not a lot

Most nouns are like this

A small set of nouns are "weak" nouns, and they have N-declension.

This means that they change for EVERY situation, except (Nominativ, Singular)

For example, der Junge

Only in (Nominative, Singular) is the noun unchanged

In all of the other combinations, it has an -n added to it

This is why it is called "N-Declension", because these weak nouns have -n added everywhere except (Nominative, Singular)

So:

1. Normal nouns don't change much because of case

2. a small set of "weak nouns" change for almost every case

So, which nouns are these?

Well, they are almost entirely nouns that are masculine. The only weak noun that isn't masculine is "Das Herz"

They also tend to be labels of people.

der Junge = the boy
der Bote = the messenger
der Mensch = the person

It can also sometimes be other things, like animals

der Bär = the bear
der Affe = the monkey

or certain job professions

der Pilot = the pilot
der Architekt = the architect

Question: How do you know if a noun is a "weak noun"?

Answer: Other than "das Herz", weak nouns are masculine. So if it's a non-masculine noun, it's not a weak noun.
If it is a masculine noun...you check on Wiktionary whether the noun adds an -en or -n in cases other than Nominative

For example: https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Bär

It's one of those things you have to learn as you learn new masculine nouns

[vernal ermine]

Till now I didn't know about this bro. Vielen Dank❤

[ember lotus]

Most masculine nouns that end on an -e are weak

Other than that it’s just mindless memorisation 🙃

[plush pelican]

This is the problem with rules in German: "most"

"They're often X...unless they're Y"

[ember lotus]

I think it’s pretty much 95% of cases

[plush pelican]

They say 90% of nouns ending in -e are feminine

[ember lotus]

Can’t even personally think of a masculine noun that ends on an e and isn’t weak

[plush pelican]

But then that 10% contains A LOT of common nouns that aren't, in fact, feminine

[ember lotus]

The rest are probably foreign words/masculine nouns

For n Deklination you also have a lot of common endings

It’s not that bad and you can see patterns if you look for them

[plush pelican]

der Junge
der Bote
der Kollege
der Affe
der Drache
der Grieche

[ember lotus]

What about those

[plush pelican]

exactly my point

these are nouns ending in -e, but they're all masculine

der Neffe

[ember lotus]

Yes, all follow n Deklination

All are people or animals too

Those are usually on n Deklination

If you don’t wanna look for a pattern you won’t see it

But it does make some sense

[plush pelican]

I've tried following the "rules" before, but there's so many exceptions, you might as well just memorize the nouns as you come across them rather than try to predict it

[south zenith]

I don’t necessarily look for the rules but that rule generally does track, ofc there are exceptions but “Käse” is really the only one that comes to mind for that one

[regal bane]

geheim halten; to keep secret. Does "ein Geheimnis halten" is used instead in German when we're expressing it as "to keep a secret" (For example, "Ich glaube es ist gut, ein Geheimnis zuhalten")

or does it sound off to you?

[long whale]

It simply doesn't work. There are various other verbs you can use with "Geheimnis" for "to keep a secret" (hüten; bewahren; für sich behalten).

[regal bane]

so no halten, but okay with hüten and bewahren. I see

[vernal ermine]

@long whale can we use zu + infinitive with modal verbs.

[warped oriole]

I think in speech we mostly use:
Ein Geheimnis für sich behalten.
Es geheim halten.

(be)hüten and bewahren is more used in books.

[warped oriole]

But don't forget to memorize the exceptions from your pattern like die Giraffe, die Ratte, die Motte, die Wache. 😄

[cold moat]

How they masculine and weak at the same time?

They gotta go to the gym

[ember lotus]

Femboy nouns

[forest ravine]

Warum steht ein Brot im Nominativ und nicht im Akkusative?

[long whale]

And what's the difference beween Nominativ and Akkusativ, when you have a neuter noun? Or a feminine one? ;)

confidently waiting for the "Ohh!"

[plush pelican]

You mean like this?

Ich habe vor, das Klavier spielen zu können.
I plan to be able to play the piano.

[forest ravine]

Ohh! I forgot about Neuter nouns, because I know ein is the maskulin nominative artikel und im Akkusative nur Maskulin changes but I forgot neuter has (which form of haben do I use here) the same artikel, Danke.

[vernal ermine]

Yes bro

[plush pelican]

Yeah, I mean as you can see, it's possible.

You can do an Infinitivsatz (the zu + infinitiv clause) with multiple verbs. When that happens, the other verbs pile up to the left of the "zu" and then the first one is to the right in infinitiv form.

Ich kann1 das Klavier spielen2.
Ich habe vor, das Klavier spielen2 zu können1.

Ich habe1 ihm geholfen2.
Ich habe vor, ihm geholfen2 zu haben1.
I intend to have helped him.

[vernal ermine]

@plush pelican what if a modal verb comes in the haupsatze? Bro

[plush pelican]

?

Do you mean, in the clause before the Infinitivsatz?

[pure walrus]

I habe eine Frage. Was bedeutet "Die Ingangsetzung"?

[plush pelican]

https://www.dict.cc/?s=ingangsetzung

[vernal ermine]

Yes bro exactly

[plush pelican]

It...doesn't affect anything?

Ich bin bereit, das Klavier spielen zu können.
I am ready to be able to play the piano.

Ich will bereit sein, das Klavier spielen zu können.
I want to be ready to be able to play the piano.

That example is a little contrived, it's the first thing I could think of 😅

[vernal ermine]

@plush pelican is there any conditions where I should not use zu + infinitive satze? Bro

[plush pelican]

Have you read about how to use Infinitivsätze?

[vernal ermine]

Yes bro

[plush pelican]

Well, then you should know when and where to use an Infinitivsatz

The one thing that gets mentioned specifically is: "damit" and an "um...zu..." Infinitivsatz are often interchangeable, but not always.

Ich arbeite, um Geld zu verdienen.
I work in order to earn money.

Ich arbeite, damit ich Geld verdiene.
Basically the same thing as above.

BUT: If the two clauses have different subjects, then you must use "damit", you can't use an Infinitivsatz, because Infinitivsätze have the same subject as the main clause.

Ich arbeite, damit meine Mutter Geld hat.
I work so that my mother has money.

[vernal ermine]

Yes bro.

[vernal ermine]

Thanks bro ❤

[thorny rain]

I have a weird question why is the W in German pronounced as a V ?

[autumn marsh]

there's no reason for such things, it just is how it is

[long whale]

Go back 1000+ years, you may find out. 🤷

[thorny rain]

Your right gets in time machine

[plush pelican]

You can ask the same question in reverse: In English, why is V pronounced like a German W?

[thorny rain]

Hmmm yes I could 😌

[cobalt thistle]

Servus, wäre jemand so nett, kurz mein Anschreiben auf Schreibfehler zu überprüfen und ggf. auf komische Formulierungen hinweisen?

Hier das Ding:

Sehr geehrte Frau [...]

im Anschluss auf unseres Gespräch auf der [Name der Ausstellung] übersende ich Ihnen meinen Lebenslauf. [Name der Firma] hat auf mich einen guten Eindruck gemacht und es würde mich freuen, auch als Teil des Teams mitzumachen und Erfahrung sammeln zu dürfen.

Konkret bin ich an einer Werkstudentenstelle / einem Praktikum interessiert. Was meine Verfügbarkeit angeht, bin ich relativ flexibel und bereit zu verhandeln.

Für Rückfragen bin ich am besten per E-Mail zu erreichen.

[long whale]

Do check 3. here: https://de.pons.com/übersetzung/deutsch-englisch/Anschluss Rest looks fine to me.

[cobalt thistle]

thanks 🙏 🫡

[long whale]

;) You do realize "unseres [Gespräch]" doesn't work, right?

[cobalt thistle]

what do you mean 😭

[long whale]

gender of "Gespräch"...?

[cobalt thistle]

unseren Gespräch then?

i thought Gespräch was das

yeah

[plush pelican]

"Gespräch" is das, but you don't add the -es in nominative or accusative for that

[long whale]

Correct. So, it needs to be in Akkusativ, right? Because that's what I posted the pons link for -> no change from Nominativ.

[cobalt thistle]

ohh

[plush pelican]

possessive pronouns do the same thing as like "ein"

[cobalt thistle]

it would be "an unseren Tag" but "an unser Gespräch", right?

[plush pelican]

Like, you say "Das ist ein Gespräch" and not "Das ist eines Gespräch"

[cobalt thistle]

yeah makes sense

thanks a lot, guys

[zinc dock]

Erzeugt die Konjunktion „da“ nicht einen Nebensatz?

[ember lotus]

Da as a Konjunktion means “because” as far as I know

I’m not sure what exactly it’s technically supposed to be called in this context, but it definitely didn’t rain because someone bought presents

[shrewd fern]

it means "on that day"

in that context

its hard to translate it into english lol

[ember lotus]

Yeah thought so

Like “then”

[shrewd fern]

but it very roughly means "it rained on the first day, on that day we bought presents"

[ember lotus]

But also not really, have a much better translation in my native language but I doubt he speaks Bulgarian

[shrewd fern]

couldn't think of a more accurate translation lol

if "da" meant "because" there, it would be "Am ersten Tag hat es geregnet, da wir Geschenke gekauft haben* which would mean "it rained on the first day because we bought presents" 😭

[cold moat]

everyone speaks bulgarian, it's the lingua franca of the universe
Edit: тогава?

[warped oriole]

"Da" also means "there". Not only spatially, but also temporally. Like, there at that time. I don't know, does it make sense to you?

,da haben wir geschenke gekauft.
,there(at that time) we bought gifts.
,da wir geschenke gekauft haben.
,because we bought gifts.

[ember lotus]

Дап

[ember lotus]

I suppose it would be interchangeable (in that context) with dann, right?

[long whale]

Not in my opinion, no. 😳

[ember lotus]

Oh wait dann is only “after” right

Myb, got it wrong because we have the same word for both in my native language

[warped oriole]

Dann is then. After is danach

[long whale]

"then", I'd say, but yes, it does imply a sequence of events. I'd translate the "da" in the original sentence as "that's when"

[vernal ermine]

Wann fährst du mit einem Auto?
Ich fahre mit einem Auto am Morgen.
@long whale Sister, does my sentence correct?

[long whale]

German wants to see time mentioned as early as possible -> am Morgen mit einem Auto. Please note it's all correct, grammarwise, but sounds really unnatural.

[vernal ermine]

I want to give thumbs up. Why it is not working for you, sister? @long whale

[ember lotus]

@vernal ermine here’s the standard word order you’d follow most of the time (imagine stolen borrowed from @plush pelican I think)

I wouldn’t say it’s set in stone 100% of the time but you can use the image as a second opinion if you’re having doubts about word order

Like it assumes subject is first and it would be third if you want to put more emphasis on something and put it first instead

[vernal ermine]

I think I have to memorize this stuff @ember lotus

Vielen Dank❤

[vernal ermine]

Thanks for the help sister @long whale

[vernal ermine]

Friends, how can we write modal verbs and werden with two verbs in a same sentence?

[brave harbor]

Ich werde morgen meine Hausaufgaben machen müssen? Something like that?

[vernal ermine]

Yes but another thing also I would like to know.

How can we write : I will take rest and watch TV at home in the future. @brave harbor

[kind knoll]

Ich werde mich ausruhen und zu Hause fernsehen?

[vernal ermine]

But "in zukunft " where I can place that.

[brave harbor]

Vielleicht später? Later? Ich werde mich ausruhen und später fernsehen

[vernal ermine]

Vielen Dank

[vernal ermine]

Dankeschön

[jade hawk]

Having difficulties understanding the word aufgeschmissen
To be stuck [somewhere]? Or more like to be screwed, as in, to be in a bad situation? Or to be at a loss? Duden also says its very rarely used so I'm not sure if I should even bother with this. Also it seems to be a UGS only word

[kind knoll]

here is some examples to help you understand:

Sehr schön gelegen, aber ohne Auto ist man aufgeschmissen.
Mittlerweile haben wir jedoch auch ein großartiges Team, ohne das wir völlig aufgeschmissen wären.
Ihr scheint nicht zu verstehen, dass wir jetzt total aufgeschmissen sind.
Wenn du nicht da bist, sind wir aufgeschmissen.

As you can see the word can mean all of what you just mentioned, it's mostly used colloquially.

[jade hawk]

Hmm, alright, thanks. So it's a bit complicated but I think its safe to assume that "to be at a loss" is the most common translation/use

[plush pelican]

That seems to translate pretty directly to "screwed"

At least from those examples 😅

DWDS says this: https://www.dwds.de/wb/aufgeschmissen

salopp
plötzlich hilflos, in der Klemme

crude
suddenly helpless, in a bind

Dict.cc says this: https://www.dict.cc/?s=aufgeschmissen

[jade hawk]

dict makes all of this way harder because it suddenly introduces the element of vulgarity with to be fucked

[plush pelican]

I mean, DWDS said "salopp"

[zinc dock]

Wie heißt das Buch?

[ember lotus]

No clue, as I said I stole borrowed the image from @plush pelican

[jade hawk]

salopp means casual, so it just indicates that this is UGS, no vulgarity here

[plush pelican]

Grammatik Aktiv B2-C1

[ember lotus]

Argus clutching

[ember lotus]

C2-D1 Grammatik when :)

[jade hawk]

is that the book you use Argus?

[plush pelican]

no

I own it, but I have some questions as to its accuracy

[jade hawk]

Very well

[plush pelican]

But the word order table seems pretty good

relatively reliable

[jade hawk]

yeah I'm just thinking of getting a B level grammar book and I thought the one you use would be a good choice but if youre questioning its quality then this is not the one

[plush pelican]

Yeah, the problem is I haven't really used a proper textbook as of yet

[ember lotus]

What’s even the difficult b1+ grammar

Konjunktivs?

Actually those aren’t that bad

You don’t even use the first one

[plush pelican]

Doch

I mean, in casual speech, no

[ember lotus]

Wieso

[plush pelican]

but in reports, yeah

[ember lotus]

You mean indirect speech?

[plush pelican]

and you need to at the very least understand it for reading any sort of news article

yes

[ember lotus]

That’s also not too bad (for me at least)

Learned it when I was like a2

Before I realized I’d like never need to use it for the time being

I still sometimes end up using it actually but pretty rarely

[plush pelican]

Re: B1+ grammar topics:

Konjunktiv, Passiv, Passiversatzformen, Verb Ergänzungen (verb+preposition, verb+noun, verb+verb), subjektive Bedeutungen der Modalverben, Nominalstil vs. Verbalstil, Ersatzinfinitiv

idk, a lot of stuff in later levels is like, repeating earlier stuff and reinforcing it and also maybe broadening it a bit

Also stuff I haven't necessarily seen in books, but have run across: the am-Progressiv (umgangssprachlich) and der Absentiv (Ich bin einkaufen.)

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Am-Progressiv
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absentiv

[delicate tiger]

Ich bin das schon die ganze Zeit am Benutzen

[plush pelican]

😛

Is that actually wrong, or does it just sound cringe?

[delicate tiger]

neither, just so that learners don't use it in tests

[plush pelican]

So it doesn't sound cringe, you just want to emphasize learners shouldn't use it on tests?

[zinc dock]

Danke

[vernal ermine]

Was bist du von Beruf? Is it correct friends?

[plush pelican]

yes, I believe so

[vernal ermine]

I have another one question. Die Museen in Basel ist sehr bekannt. Is this sentence correct? @plush pelican

[charred harbor]

ist -> sind

das Museum ist
die Museen sind

[plush pelican]

*question, not doubt. You have another question.

"Die Museen" is plural. Either make it singular, or change the verb to match it.

das Museum (singular)
die Museen (plural)

[vernal ermine]

Can I take Die Museen in Basel as only 1 position?

[plush pelican]

sure

The way to understand this is: You are telling someone about a place

Das Museum

you can then make that more specific

Das Museum in Basel

that's all talking about location, it's all specifying the same thing, so it can all count as 1 position

You can do the same thing with time:

Morgen um 9 Uhr frühstücken wir.
Tomorrow at 9 am, we're eating breakfast.

[vernal ermine]

@plush pelican Thanks bro ❤

[vernal ermine]

Vielen Dank ❤

[pearl knot]

is this term commonly used? ---> "etwas ruht auf jemandes Schultern"

"ein Tag aus meinem Leben" oder "ein Tag in meinem Leben"?

[fervent kernel]

You'd rather phrase it as "Etwas lastet auf jemandes Schultern"

As in "weighing in heavy on someones shoulders" rather than "resting on someones shoulders"

[fervent kernel]

The second one - since it is a day "in" your life, not "out of" your life/documenting something externally but a day in your own (included) life.

[pearl knot]

thank you so much!

[plush pelican]

auf jemandes?

Genitiv?

I didn't think "auf" could take a Genitive object

and "auf etwas lasten" is normally Dative...except for this specific case, or what?

[vernal ermine]

Which sentence mode and tense we usually use for an advice? Friends.

[plush pelican]

https://learngerman.dw.com/de/konjunktiv-ii-tipps/l-38466970/gr-39120885

Let me know if you can't understand that

Btw: The B1 course for Nicos Weg was quite good. I did it and liked it

This is from that course

[long whale]

Ehh - it doesn't. It's weighing on somebody**'s** shoulders. 😄

[plush pelican]

It's...late 😅 Danke

[vernal ermine]

So konjuktive 2 is the only option?bro

[plush pelican]

I mean, you could do it in Indikativ (normal), but in that case, I believe it's less polite and more pressure

[vernal ermine]

Thanks ❤ @plush pelican

Niemand is for noone.
But what is the suitable word for

1. Someone
   2.anyone
   3.everyone.
   ❓

[fervent kernel]

1. Jemand
   2./3. Jeder / Alle

[plush pelican]

Can't "jemand" also be #1? and what about irgendjemand?

Also: what about "alle" for #3?

[vernal ermine]

So what about " Man" How I have to take it?

[fervent kernel]

Yes, my bad

[plush pelican]

"man" = one

One helps, when one can.
Man hilft, wenn man kann.

[fervent kernel]

As corrected.

[fervent kernel]

"Irgendjemand" would be a more casual form to "Jemand". It both translates to "someone"

[plush pelican]

is "einer" also more casual?

Is that why you removed it?

[fervent kernel]

"Einer" would rather translate to the count one. You can use it as an alternative to "Jemand", but that is very casual.

e.g.: "Einer stand heraus, denn er war schlechter als alle anderen." - "One stood out, he did worse than anybody else".
"Jemand hat vergessen, den Herd abzustellen." - "Someone forgot to turn off the stove."

[vernal ermine]

For 2nd and 3rd , is it same?

[fervent kernel]

It can be both, as in anyone translating to either someone ("Jemand") or to everyone ("Jeder")

[long whale]

Hmm... I'm not sure that's true... Unless my German is a lot more casual than I think? I mean, we do use forms of "einer" to put "man" into Akk. or Dativ: Wenn einem gesagt wird, dass...

[vernal ermine]

bro you said 1st one is someone( jemand)

[fervent kernel]

That is clearly defined. But anyone can be (if applied) someone too.

Therefore it depends on the case and context if I'm not wrong.

[vernal ermine]

Do you have any example sentence bro?

[fervent kernel]

Jemand schreibt etwas auf. (Someone)

Schreibt einer von euch etwas auf? (Anyone)

Jeder schreibt mit. (Everyone)

Schreibt ihr euch etwas auf? ( Anyone / variation )

So it can adress either one or multiple subjects.

[vernal ermine]

Here only ihr is there.? Does it also acts as anyone?

[fervent kernel]

"Is anyone writing something down?" would be the translation. It does.

[vernal ermine]

Vielen Dank ❤ 🐊 @fervent kernel

[warped oriole]

I would say that jemand means someone and irgendjemand means anyone.

[long whale]

Yeah, well, this tends to confuse English speakers, because "someone" automatically changes into "anyone" in the negative, for example.

German doesn't work the same way.

[silk nebula]

Quick question, I’ve seen in a few places “was” being used to mean “something,” and I’m curious if this is a colloquial shortening of “etwas” or just a proper alternative meaning of “was.” And if the latter, when is it appropriate to use one over the other?

[pure crescent]

yeah, "was" can be used synonymously with "etwas" colloquially

[silk nebula]

I see, but this wouldn’t be used in formal speech?

[pure crescent]

Definitely not in text! Might slip through speech even in formal contexts though.

[silk nebula]

Gotcha, thanks!

[timber sandal]

What does "Deine Hose ist nass" mean

[regal heath]

Your pants are wet

[timber sandal]

ok danke ihnen

[sick oar]

Ist "die Botschaft" das richtige Wort für eine SMS? Oder etwas anderes?

[delicate tiger]

"Nachricht"

[sick oar]

Bedeutet das nicht "news"?

[sage canyon]

Yes, but it also means a message, as in a message sent to someone as an SMS

[sick oar]

What situation would "Botschaft" be used in that Nachricht wouldn't be?

[plush pelican]

"Botschaft" can mean embassy, 😄

I think that's the main meaning of the word

[sick oar]

Haha, I was way off

Danke!

[whole portal]

well Botschaft can and does mean message but it's more of a big, important message, often seen more in more historic texts

the word derives from an old German word for emissary I think that gives an idea of the context its used in

I guess a Botschaft could be contained in a (Kurz-)Nachricht of which a subtype is an SMS

Botschaft can be used similarly to Kunde if you know that

[sick oar]

I've only seen Kunde in the sense of a customer/patron

[whole portal]

that's Kunde [m]

I'm talking about Kunde [f] :p

[plush pelican]

That's my least favorite part of German: when they reuse shit in a deeply confusing way!

der See, die See

umfahren, umfahren

der Mann, mit der Frau

[whole portal]

I mean those two are at least similar

[plush pelican]

I mean, I didn't want to mention the unholy trinity of der/die/das Band ||The light shines not on this abomination.||

[whole portal]

Interesting, they both derive from the old word kund which means known

[sick oar]

TIL die Kunde

[whole portal]

so a Kunde is someone you know, and die Kunde makes something known

[plush pelican]

how did it go from "someone you know" to customer?

There's a term for that, right? When a word becomes increasingly specific in meaning

[whole portal]

probably, I'm no linguist

what do you call someone who deals with Linguine btw

[sick oar]

Kunde f —lore n · tidings

[plush pelican]

A Pasta-or (like pastor)

😛

[whole portal]

isnt die Band english's fault

Just say (Künstler-)Gruppe smh

[plush pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/dont-put-me-into-this-mess-chris-redd-saturday-night-live-not-my-responsibility-not-mine-gif-21179926

[red palm]

Why is it "Es vergeht kein Tag..." when Tag is masculine and "kein Tag" would be accusative? I know that one uses the nominative version with "sein", is this the same case? Are there other verbs that keep the nominative version?

[plush pelican]

The question is: What is the subject in this sentence?

Hint: The subject doesn't have to be in position 1.

Hammer's German Grammar 3.6.2(d):

[red palm]

Wait, so it would be "Es gibt ein Hund" and not "Es gibt einen Hund"?

Yeah, it makes sense though...

This grammar is such a headache

XD

As usual, thanks for the help 🙂

[plush pelican]

Hammer's German Grammar 19.2.2(d):

[plush pelican]

No

That is a special case where "es" is not a dummy subject

There, "es" is the subject, and so it is, in fact, "Es gibt einen Hund"

[red palm]

Now I'm confused again, I'll read the grammar pic this time 😦 It always gives me a headache to read grammar though 😦

So, for the pic you sent, would you say "Es sass ein alter Mann"?

[plush pelican]

This is one of the difficulties: Sometimes, "es" is a dummy subject and thus it can be actually entirely omitted if something else takes up position 1. And sometimes, "es" is a real subject and cannot be omitted. And that also means that when it's a real subject, it's the one taking nominative case and other stuff can't be in nominative

[plush pelican]

yeah

[red palm]

Yes, I know about the dummy subject thing, but it gets me confused about when it is used and when not... it feels kinda arbitrary.
Like, I know that basically every time "sein" and, I think "werden" too, is used, it's a dummy subject (the thing that comes is also Nominative) but, for example, I don't understand the "sass" verb requiring a nomintave... Also, doesn't "sass" mean "sat/sit" and not "was"?

[plush pelican]

What was doing the sitting, my dude?

"it" wasn't sitting

an old woman/an old man was sitting

[plush pelican]

saß means "sat"

The problem is, German doesn't have a progressive continuous thingy

So if you'll recall

I play = Ich spiele
I am playing = Ich spiele

The same thing applies for past tense:

I sat = Ich saß
I was sitting = Ich saß

[red palm]

Man, I kinda hate the examples they used in this book because (as I see it) they should have picked some examples where it is clearer waht the case for the thing that comes after the verb is...

like the "viele Gaeste" part could be nominative as well as akkusative

[plush pelican]

🤷‍♂️ It's a reference book, it's not actually written that great for accessibility

you make a good point

[red palm]

Like, that's why I kinda keep asking you, hope you won't think I'm too dumb or something :))

[plush pelican]

The problem is,

The group of people who can explain things in good detail and with proper examples for learners
and
The group of people who are really deep into a subject and know all the expert-level details

are often two different groups of people. And so you end up with experts who don't actually explain their own field well.

[long whale]

I get why you' find it confusing. But trust me, it's anything but arbitrary. 🍪

[plush pelican]

@long whale Have anything to add on discerning when something is a dummy subject "es" versus an actual subject "es"?

As far as I know, you just have to...learn it case-by-case

[red palm]

Well, for example, "Es liegen zwei Briefe", zwei Briefe is supposed to be Nominative, right?

[plush pelican]

I mean, you could say, "Can you put something else in position 1 and then the 'es' disappears from the sentence?"

But then, if I knew that, I'd already know if it was a dummy subject

[red palm]

but then, if you'd say "Es gabe zwei Briefe", would it be akkusative?

[plush pelican]

right

[plush pelican]

es gab, and yes

[red palm]

because that is similar to the "es gibt einen hund" thing

but you're effectivele saying the same thing

[plush pelican]

no, the combination "es gibt" is a special case

[red palm]

either they "lay" there or they "are" there...

[plush pelican]

Think of "es gibt" as a sort of fixed phrase

[red palm]

let me find another verb that would function betwen Es and the thing that comes after it...

[plush pelican]

es stehen zwei Bücher im Bücherregal?

[long whale]

Well... the construction required by a certain verb is something you need to memorize on a case-by-case basis. In all of the languages I've learnt, or tried to learn so far.

[red palm]

yeah, the singular would be better to prove this point, since, as in the book, the plural is the same for akkusative as for the nominative :)))

but stehen is too similar to "legen"

[plush pelican]

singular and masculine, in other words, because only masculine shows a difference anyway

es steht ein Mann auf der Türschwelle.

[red palm]

nvm, Buch is neuter anyway :)))

[plush pelican]

There's a man standing at the door(step?)

(sounds creepy 😬 )

[red palm]

Would it be "Es fliegt ein Flugzeug" (nominative or akkusative)? I couldn't find a masculine noun tbh

I'm guessing it would be akkusative

[plush pelican]

der Hubschrauber = helicopter

Es fliegt ein Hubschrauber

[red palm]

nominative?

[plush pelican]

what's flying, my dude?

[red palm]

well, you could also ask "What's existing" - "the dog"

[plush pelican]

as I said, "es gibt" is a special case

[red palm]

is it the only special case?

[plush pelican]

probably not

but I don't recall the others at the moment 😅

es regnet

es fehlt mir an Geld

[red palm]

As I understood, you are a German, so would it be generally safer to asume that after an "Es X (verb) ..." follows a nominative excepting the "es gibt" situation?

[plush pelican]

es klingelt

[plush pelican]

I'm not a German

Check my flair; I'm a learner

[red palm]

Oh, then it is even better, cuz I find that people who are learning can explain it a bit better than someone who learned it natively (like share some tricks on how they learned something)

[long whale]

Guessing or assuming is never safe. The only safe thing to do is to check a dictionary. 🤷

[plush pelican]

Usually, you won't have such confusion, as long as you know the verb and its meaning

[red palm]

Yeah, but usually when you are talking you can't always check the dictionary, so you kinda have to go with a gut feeling

[plush pelican]

I suppose one sign that it might be a dummy subject was said by Hammer's earlier: nouns with indefinite articles like ein/kein tend to be new information, so if you see a sentence with "es" in front and one of those later in the sentence, there's an increased chance that that noun is the subject

[red palm]

Like, I understand waht you are saying, but, in order to learn, you kinda have to "feel" the language, not just study it, if it makes sense, or at least that's how I find it

[red palm]

What country are you from, if you don't mind me asking

[long whale]

Ehh - if I understood you correctly, this is about analyzing sentences? Because using a verb on the basis of "gut feeling" is a pretty sure-fire way of, ehh, not being understood.

[plush pelican]

When you immerse yourself more in the language, you start getting a feel for this type of sentence. Remember, you do this sort of thing to emphasize the subject, because in German word order, placing things later in the sentence = newer/more important.

So in a conversation, the context will also often help to let you know that they're trying to emphasize that noun, and help clue you in on it being the subject

[plush pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/america-hurricane-happy4th-of-july-america-flag-independence-day-gif-21259025

[red palm]

Ah 🙂 cool.

[red palm]

Well, it is somewhat about learning...
The most I learned was with constant exposure to the language, but also through "repeating" and "saying" stuff in german... like the usual stuff "I'm going to go to the market. I have to buy X, Y, Z, etc.", which I say to myself cuz I do not know anyone who speaks german IRL, so yeah. But yeah, in a perfect world you'd have a dictionary and time to check it, but if you have to say something NOW you kinda have to go with the feeling, if it makes sense? That's also kinda how I learned English... I got exposed to it a lot, thenl, in school I always had the highest grade when I had to write something in English but lower grades when I had to exlain the grammar behind it or why it is the way it is. I just knew it is that way...

And I kinda realized that it is the same with German, sometimes I amaze myself with some knowledge. I do not know where it comes and I do not remember learning it, but I feel it is true and it is.

Ofc, sometimes it isn't and I have to check and ask questions to understand further... but I basically learn through repeated exposure where some structres are constantly repeated so much to the point where they are ingrained in the brain, but I do not know ffrom where...

I hope this makes sense. It's almost 2 am here lol.

Oh, and it is also like the "90% of the nouns that end in X(some ending) are male", or something like that, so if you usually go with that option you have a pretty high change to be correct.

[plush pelican]

And yet here you are, trying to figure out the exact grammar rule for it, 😄

[red palm]

Yeah, learning a language is pretty confusing because you cannot learn the grammar without learning the language but you cannot learn to speak the language properly without the grammar. So there is somewhat of a balance that has to be kept.

[plush pelican]

One thing I'll say: when you get to reading a book, or reading a news article, or listening to a podcast, context helps so much more than just trying to understand a sentence on its own. It often helps you bridge the gap even if you're not exactly sure how something works in a sentence.

[red palm]

Well, I am reading books, I am currently reading "Rot und Schwarz" by Stendhal, in German... I generally understand pretty good but I kinda have problems when I have to formulate the sentences and to talk because I seem to hit some walls and kinda doubt myself a lot.

[plush pelican]

Are you writing in German every day?

It seems obvious to say, but: if you have problems with producing German, the best solution is to produce more German (and get it corrected by someone)

I use r/WriteStreakGerman

[long whale]

I get what you mean, not least because I'm trying to learn a language which shares a lot of the English language's most unlovely features. However, I feel people usually get a lot farther a lot more quickly in German by trying to get to grips with the grammar. :)

[plush pelican]

Unlovely features?

https://tenor.com/view/howdareyou-offended-rude-offensive-appalled-gif-26011926

[red palm]

Not really, as I said, I kinda "talk to myself" (hope that is not disturbing XD) in German about the usual stuff or what I want to do, but I don't exactly know what to write about and I don't trust myself enough to actually talk with foreigners in German.

[plush pelican]

😛

[plush pelican]

Talking to yourself is actually a pretty commonly recommended habit

[plush pelican]

r/WriteStreakGerman has a daily suggested topic, although you can write about whatever you want. You're not writing to anyone directly, just having it corrected by native speakers.

[red palm]

I'll check it, thanks for the suggestion.

[plush pelican]

As for topics: this website has some starting topics: https://www.fluentu.com/blog/language-exchange-topics/

[red palm]

That seems usefull, idk if I'll have the courage to write there, but I might try

[outer edge]

hi, in the sentence: "Ich habe gestern nicht Deutsch gelernt". Why is it nicht and not kein?

[whole portal]

nicht negates the sentence, kein would negate the Deutsch

[outer edge]

so, if I say it with kein, would that imply that I have learn something but not Deutsch. Is that right?

[whole portal]

Depends on the context

[outer edge]

but that would not necessarily be wrong

[whole portal]

wouldn't be wrong

[outer edge]

mmm ok
thanks

[plush pelican]

Turns out, even Germans disagree sometimes for these Substantiv-Verb-Verbindungen. I found a paper about it before. The combination "Fußball spielen" generates the most disagreement about "nicht" or "kein"

https://publikationen.ub.uni-frankfurt.de/frontdoor/index/index/year/2018/docId/47327

[whole portal]

Honestly I'd use kein with all of these

But I can see nicht for the 2 big ones

[plush pelican]

Here, they call these things "zusammengesetzte Verben": https://mein-deutschbuch.de/trennbare-verben.html

And in Grammatik Aktiv, they call them "Verbgefährte"

It's deeply annoying that such a simple question of "How do you negate a sentence in German?" leads to such complications

Then again, how is negation in English? Is it equally complicated to learn?

I suppose "do" complicates things

[whole portal]

Idk does it

honestly the biggest confusion for me was "ain't" and its usage

I feel like I don't really have any strong opinions about english's difficulty though (mostly because I just ignore the stuff I don't like :p)

Well and the whole mess that is english spelling; while not a big issue when writing or speaking it can absolutely be confusing as hell when words like segway and segue are pronounced the same, add the differences between some american and english dialects and you have words that are next to impossible to figure out without context

[weary turtle]

I heard the term friesenjung term used in a song
do yall know what that might mean?

[whole portal]

I just heard a quiz question that went something like "what is a synonym for a /paracel/", it wasn't until the answer of "umbrella" was revealed that I realized they were talking about a parasol

[whole portal]

Friesen + Jung :p

[weary turtle]

is friesen like a region in europe?

[whole portal]

Friesen comes from Friesland which is all the islands and coastal regions along the north of Germany and the Netherlands

[weary turtle]

ohhh thank you so much

[whole portal]

Westfriesland is in the Netherlands, Ost- and Nordfriesland are in Germany

Jung is northern german for Junge

So he's saying he's a frisian boy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisia

Otto Waalkes, the Friesenjung in question is east frisian btw.

[plush pelican]

"Segway" isn't a word, it's a brand.

[whole portal]

That's not mutually exclusive

[plush pelican]

Any usage for the word other than the little 2-wheeled Transportsmittel is just "segue"

What I'm saying is: Pretend "Segway" doesn't exist

[whole portal]

Okay but let's say you've read about segway during the craze 10 years ago

And now you hear segue for the first time

[plush pelican]

It's like if a skiing company named themselves "Schee"

[whole portal]

There is no way in hell anyone is ever going to think "ah yeah must be spelled segue"

[plush pelican]

🤷‍♂️

Every language has its sins

[whole portal]

Yeah, this is definitely one of English's

I also am pretty certain I can't do english commas

[plush pelican]

That's okay, most native speakers can't do English commas

[whole portal]

Not that different in German

people can't even tell the difference between das and dass apparently, I'm questioning nothing

Oh yeah and as a German native I deeply despise the way English does or rather doesn't really do capitalization - but when it does it usually just feels wrong

[plush pelican]

We capitalize when we feel like it 😛

One nice thing about that is that we can capitalize something in order to make it Special

[whole portal]

I just don't feel like it except for I

[whole portal]

I'm gonna be sick

[whole portal]

My teacher drummed that one into me

[plush pelican]

Like, if you have a sentence in a fantasy book and you say, "Oh, you haven't heard about The Harvest yet?"

That conveys a certain amount of information that would be hard to do in German, or maybe I just don't know how

[whole portal]

Just to he clear The Harvest is not some kind of punk band here

[plush pelican]

"The Harvest" is like, some mysterious and important ritual here

[whole portal]

Oh okay

[plush pelican]

fantasy setting

[whole portal]

I was just considering it just being the normal harvest of fields but somehow relevant to the story or sth

[plush pelican]

Your Germanness has blinded you to the wonders of Selective Capitalization

[whole portal]

No I mean we do this as well it just sticks out less

[plush pelican]

How do you do this, when every noun is capitalized anyway?

[whole portal]

This stuff can have adjectives and verbs in it too

[plush pelican]

So German can only have a partial apprehension of the beauties of Selective Capitalization 😛

Never used to its Full Extent

[whole portal]

I think the way a writer will name things might be dependent on the language, that's why movie titles are sometimes translated differently or feel a bit off

(Not that we don't just name stuff Das Boot or Der Untergang)

[plush pelican]

Whoever makes German movie titles just wants to keep his job, so he always adds shit onto every foreign film name to justify his salary

[whole portal]

I think we forget how many people don't speak english well here, especially with movies that were released maybe 10, 20 years ago

[plush pelican]

You think the extra stuff for film names is to help those who can't speak English?

[whole portal]

Partially, partially I think it stems from the whole somewhat theatrical nature that German film production has, these sort of titles aren't uncommon for German movies either I think

But I am also not really into movies so I don't know that much about movie titles

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eine_schrecklich_nette_Familie

This one is definitely different

That was the only long German title I could think of rn

Is having this sort of second title a thing in english media?

[plush pelican]

Sometimes you have a subtitle, but not too often

[whole portal]

I think that's more popular here and it just gets added even when there is none in the original

[plush pelican]

List of movies out right now:

American Fiction
Anyone But You
Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom
Argylle
Mean Girls (2024)
Migration
Night Swim
The Beekeeper
The Boys in the Boat
The Iron Claw
Wonka

[whole portal]

And it's often phrased in a different way, like Ice Age 2 in english is "the meltdown" while in German it's "jetzt taut's", here you can already see less nouns being used

Yeah it's the same with all the other ice age films

Not sure how to exactly describe this phenomenon but it exists

[plush pelican]

yeah

[whole portal]

The German titles feel a lot more humorous/playful to me

That behaviour probably also changes for different genres

[whole portal]

I think sometimes it's put in quotes but thinking about it harder I'm pretty sure that is something mainly seen when translating something from English, I feel like this could be an interesting topic to research, how different languages name things in books

[plain umbra]

We capitalise "proper nouns" but not regular nouns.

Proper noun is like a name or title.

[plush pelican]

Question: With prefixes that could be separable or not (like über, durch, unter, etc), the general idea is:

1. the trennbare version is usually a more literal thing
2. the nicht trennbare version is usually figurative.

Yes?

But then you have "überfahren":

1. To literally run someone over. nicht trennbar
2. To literally carry someone across water. trennbar
3. To drive past something (like going through a stoplight) nicht trennbar

???

[plush pelican]

Working on these potentially separable prefixes, and it seems like the rules...don't explain anything.

Das trennbare betonte Präfix um- hat die Bedeutung von Veränderung.
umsteigen -> trennbar

Das nicht trennbare und unbetonte Präfix um- bedeutet herum, kreisförmige Bewegung.
umkreisen -> nicht trennbar

So, for "umsehen" like looking around a shop, which is it? You guessed it, it's nicht trennbar!

[tight flame]

hallo, im trying to combine weil with two verbs, forgot and to bring.

Ich habe die Veranstaltung im Zeitung von Köln gefunden, weil mein Bruder vergessen hat, die Zeitung mit ihm nach Köln zu bringen.

i used the structure from the last time i asked, but adding weil

can someone point out if theres something not in order

[long whale]

I know those can be annoying - or rather: the idea of having those verbs is pretty annoying. On the plus side, I have yet to see one where I wouldn't qualify one of the versions as "uncommon/rare" (separable version of "überfahren"). As to "sich umsehen"... well, no inseparable version exists, so... 🤷

[long whale]

Please check >faq contractions in #botchannel and think about the gender of "Zeitung" -> im Zeitung never works. "... die Zeitung mit ihm nach Köln zu bringen" OR "... die Zeitung nach Köln mitzubringen"

[tight flame]

ahh, my bad, its (f.). thanks for that

your second note, i dont know yet how that became so.

2 prefixes on a verb

[long whale]

Huh? Where's the 2nd prefix? The only real problem is that you translated literally from English "he brought it with him" instead of using the German separable verb "etwas (Akk) mitbringen"

[plush pelican]

Btw, you were saying that this variation is valid?

"die Zeitung mit nach Köln zu bringen"?

Does that even count as a separable prefix anymore, or is "mit" an adverb there?

"mit" seems particularly tricksy

[tight flame]

i see. i understand now. i tend to use the more basic form of the verb, i didnt account for the separable one

thanks again

[long whale]

Yup, it's an adverb in the 2nd version - as far as I know, i.e. from what I remember when I last checked this on DWDS.

[plush pelican]

Danke, Susana

[fervent kernel]

Hey

I found some old watch and from behind it’s written in German can someone translate it but I can’t send imagines

Images

So please ping me and I’ll do it to you guys

And I think it’s worth something so I might bring it to a pawn shop but first I want to know what is written on it

[long whale]

You'll be able to post an image here in a little while, after you've got full permissions. 🌻

[fervent kernel]

k

[fervent kernel]

when is that

[vernal ermine]

1.Ich bin gestresst, wenn ich viel arbeiten muss.
2.Ich bin traurig, wenn ich allein bin.
3.Ich bin glücklich, wenn ich ein neue Motorrad habe.
4.Ich habe Angst, wenn ich Deutch lerne.
5.Ich bin sauer, wenn ich kein Freund habe.

Does my sentence correct?

[long whale]

I think it's in #role-directory

[charred harbor]

1, 2 and 4 are good

3 and 5 both have a grammatical mistake (although admittedly the one in 3 might be a typo)

[vernal ermine]

Can I know what mistakes?

[fervent kernel]

its says S/ martin Guhs gewidmet fur 25 yahr treue Dienste von Peter krinigs

what it means

[charred harbor]

Sure, I'll bold them

Ich bin glücklich, wenn ich ein neue Motorrad habe
Ich bin sauer, wenn ich kein Freund habe

[vernal ermine]

3.neues 4.keinen Is it right?

[charred harbor]

Probably a good note that if you say "keinen Freund" it sounds like boyfriend

[long whale]

To Martin Guhs from Peter Krinigs for 25 years of loyal service

[charred harbor]

I'm not sure if this is what you wanted

[fervent kernel]

so isit rare thing

or what

[fervent kernel]

so maybe a royal owned this or what

[vernal ermine]

Yes I want to tell boyfriend.

[charred harbor]

Ah alright then, cool

[vernal ermine]

I have another question also related with comprehension.

@charred harbor

[fervent kernel]

u have any idea who is Martin Guhs

[vernal ermine]

The answer for 1st is falsch. But I feel richtig. Why it is false? @charred harbor

[long whale]

The inscription probably makes it worth less rather than more. Unless the watch was made by a really famous jeweller, it's probably just worth the weight.

[charred harbor]

Would you mind getting rid of the circle if possible? It's getting in the way of the text.

[fervent kernel]

i wanna know who is peter kringis and martin guhs should i go talk to old people or what or go to a pawn shop

[charred harbor]

Appreciated ^^

[long whale]

Go google. ;)

[charred harbor]

There you go, sentence 1:

[vernal ermine]

Yes it should be richtig but the answer is falsch

[charred harbor]

It should be falsch.

The two sentences imply the opposite things

[fervent kernel]

thanks

[vernal ermine]

I didn't get it. 🤔

[charred harbor]

...möchte weniger arbeiten
...möchte bald in vielen Filmen mitspielen
They're contradictory

[vernal ermine]

Does it have connection with age?

[charred harbor]

No

[vernal ermine]

But the question is about his age?

@charred harbor

[charred harbor]

Wait sorry, when you said "1st" did you mean the one labelled 1? And not 1st as in the actual 1st question?

I might've misunderstood

If you meant 1 then it's to do with sentence 2 in the extract:
"Ich bin jetzt schon über 65 Jahre alt"

[vernal ermine]

So what you mean richtig oder falsch.

[charred harbor]

Falsch, because she's not 65

[obtuse steppe]

What is this for?

[vernal ermine]

@charred harbor in that same comprehension I have another question, for the 5 th question does it mention nurnburg is his last film? Answer is richtig. How?

[vernal ermine]

Lesen comprehension

[charred harbor]

That's the only one where I'm honestly not sure. The passage is really vague on it. Dumb question.

It says “…hat er die Rolle des Nürnberger Taxifahrers Hartmut” which I think is supposed to be the giveaway, but that’s dumb because it doesn’t mean it takes place there necessarily.

I could say I’m a British housekeeper but that doesn’t mean I live in the UK.

[long whale]

Yes, that's technically true, of course. However, wenn we talk about "Berliner Busfahrer", we usually mean the people driving busses in Berlin, not drivers born in Berlin. ;)

[charred harbor]

Yeah, I mean… yeah. I just thought it was silly.

[vernal ermine]

So what you think for that question?

[charred harbor]

I feel like I’ve summed it up. I think it wants “richtig”, because “Nürnberger Taxifahrers”, but I still think it’s a dumb question.

The others directly give answers whereas technically that one is ambiguous.

[vernal ermine]

I have finished another one comprehension also. In that 2nd and 3 rd questions are false but I feel true. How it is false. @charred harbor

[charred harbor]

For 2: morgens oft ≠ jeden Morgen
For 3: I might be being a complete idiot but I feel like that should be richtig…?

[plush pelican]

Have you swapped 2 and 3?

[charred harbor]

No (?)

[plush pelican]

oh, I'm reading #1, whoops

For #3:

Ich heiße Marina und komme aus Ecuador...

In zwei Wochen fliege ich nach Ecuador zurück.

[charred harbor]

-> In zwei Wochen fliege ich nach Ecuador zurück und bin schon sehr nervös. Ich freue mich sehr auf meine Familie.
-> In zwei Wochen besucht sie ihre Familie in Ecuador.
To me these seem to match and I’m pushed towards true. 🤔

[plush pelican]

She isn't visiting family in Ecuador, she lives there

she's flying back there

besuchen = you're going to another place that's not your home temporarily to visit someone

[charred harbor]

-> Seit einem Jahr lebe ich in Deutschland

[plush pelican]

oh shit

🤔

Maybe I should read the whole thing

😅

So, it doesn't say she's going back to Germany after this

I suppose the assumption is that it was a temporary job as an Au-Pair, and now she's coming home permanently

@long whale Care to weigh in?

[charred harbor]

Hm, well it doesn’t directly state that she’s moving back home. My understanding was that she’s flying back to Ecuador to visit her family (and then will continue living in Germany afterwards)

[plush pelican]

That sounds plausible as well

Okay, I'm going to bed now. 😴

[vernal ermine]

@long whale what's your opinion sister?

[plush pelican]

https://www.aupairworld.com/en/wiki/duration-au-pair-stay

The officially permitted length of an au pair stay varies from host country to host country. This also can be affected by visa stipulations. Typically au pair stays last between 3 and 12 months.

Germany 6 - 12 months

I guess this is information you'd have to know outside of the text

[vernal ermine]

I also feel like going to equador and coming back thereby visiting her family.

[plush pelican]

but it does go towards the "she's moving back permanently" interpretation

okay, now I'm going to bed 😅

[vernal ermine]

What time is it for you?

[charred harbor]

Oh. 👀
I think her saying “I’ve been living here for a year” instead of “I’m here temporarily” was throwing me off. 🤣

[vernal ermine]

@charred harbor can I know your final opinion?

[charred harbor]

To be honest, I think both interpretations are valid.

[kind knoll]

are we talking about the in zwei wochen sentences?

[charred harbor]

Although 2 is very clearly supposed to be falsch.

Yeah

[kind knoll]

zurückfliegen gives off more of a not coming back feeling tbh

[vernal ermine]

Can anyone tell me why the 1st sentence matches the B option?

[kind knoll]

Well here it specifies that they have all kinds of pets, not just the regular dog and cat combo, they have options like turtles and fish

also, the girl is allergic to the pets hair, not the pets themselves, and these options dont have hair

[vernal ermine]

I understand now.

I thought tier only includes animals not fishes and birds.

[kind knoll]

Well, fish and birds are animals?

Perhaps in your native language they aren't considered animals?

[vernal ermine]

I have another question for which case we use welche and was für ein. Does it same?

[kind knoll]

I am afraid I don't understand your question

welch is declined the same way in/definite articles are

[vernal ermine]

Does " welche " and" was für ein " are same?

[kind knoll]

Ah, no. "Welche" translates to "which" or "what" in English, it's used in questions z.B Welche Farbe magst du?

Was für ein" translates to "what kind of" or "what sort of" in English.

its used to ask about the nature, quality, or type of something in a broader sense

z.B Was für ein Buch liest du gerne?

[vernal ermine]

Thank you

______ morgen schreibe ich jeden Tag eine Bewerbung! Versprochen! Why I cannot use Über but the answer is Ab @kind knoll

[kind knoll]

Übermorgen is a word, it means the day after tomorrow, Ab Morgen is a preposition followed by a word, which means starting from tomorrow

[vernal ermine]

Yes but why I cannot use in that sentence?

[kind knoll]

Well you can, but it would have an entirely different meaning.

[charred harbor]

The space is important.

übermorgen ≠ über morgen

[vernal ermine]

@kind knoll Vielen Dank

@charred harbor Vielen Dank

[kind knoll]

of course, do let me know if you have any other questions

[charred harbor]

I just realised we’re literally like

https://tenor.com/view/evanandkatelyn-thumbs-up-group-thumbs-up-gif-12544866

LOL

[kind knoll]

I unfortunately dont know these people

[charred harbor]

(I don’t either, I was just making a joke about how we keep thumbs-upping each other)

[kind knoll]

Oh

lmfao

[vernal ermine]

Yes definitely

[vernal ermine]

Sure

@charred harbor

https://tenor.com/view/good-day-god-special-friends-very-special-people-friends-like-you-gif-9253016688427968177

[fluid oracle]

"wollt ihr euch den reiterhof einmal anschauen"

why do we use euch in this sentence

[kind knoll]

because its the conjugation of the verb "sich anschauen"

[gusty silo]

☝️ its reflexive, as many many verbs in german are

[kind knoll]

Ive actually looked at the verb and it doesn't seem to have a difference without sich? Even after using deepL, could you please tell us what the difference is?

[long whale]

etwas/jdn anschauen is more like "directing your eyes towards sth". The reflexive version means "to have a [close] look at sth/so"

[gusty silo]

when a verb is used reflexively versus not need not make much of a difference or even make much sense to you to be honest, sometimes it just is some way. in this case i'd say they do actually have a different spin, non-reflexive anschauen rather means that you just stare at something, unmoving, unflinching, whereas reflexively it means to inspect something

[kind knoll]

Thanks to both of you

[dusty niche]

Hi guys what is plusquamperfect

[plain umbra]

In English it's called past perfect. Basically it's the past of the past.

English example:
Simple past: I ate the bread.
Present perfect: I have eaten the bread.
Past perfect: I had eaten the bread.

Makes sense?

And you make it the same way as in English.

Perfekt: Ich habe das Brot gegessen.
Plusquamperfekt: Ich hatte das Brot gegessen.

Just like English changes "have" to "had", in German it changes "habe" to "hatte".

Or if you have sein as auxiliary, then it's from "ist" to "war".

Ich bin eingeschlafen. (I fell asleep. / I have fallen asleep.)
Ich war eingeschlafen. (I had fallen asleep.)

[dusty niche]

Is there a difference between these two, only ''sein'' turn into ''war''
''haben'' turn into ''hatten'

[ember lotus]

Is it also like that with ansehen?

Since sich ansehen has a pretty close meaning to such anschauen

[gusty silo]

yeah basically

mhm

[ember lotus]

Although (i think) they have different meaning if not reflexive?

[gusty silo]

sehen ~ schauen ~ gucken overlap quite a lot and which one you encounter often depends on non-linguistic factors (like the formality of the text or the region the author is from)

[ember lotus]

Like “Ich sehe das anders an” you couldn’t replace it with anschauen in this example

[gusty silo]

true

[ember lotus]

Honestly no clue what the difference is with gucken

I know it means like “peak”

[gusty silo]

but actually, you wouldn't add an there

just "Ich sehe das anders"

[ember lotus]

Mmm maybe

I have a vague memory of seeing that exact sentence with an so im probably confusing it

[gusty silo]

gucken and schauen are largely synonymous, with gucken being used in the northern half and schauen in the southern half, but schauen is strongly preferred in writing

[ember lotus]

Same with angucken?

[gusty silo]

yeah

i don't think you'd see angucken in writing outside of some novels and quotes tbh

whereas gucken, as you said in the meaning of 'to peek', you might

[ember lotus]

Alright thanks

[charred harbor]

I tried looking up a map on it and found this

[gusty silo]

yup

oh yeah side note: gucken in standard german is going to be said "kucken" ninety times out of ten

[ember lotus]

Saying schaugen sounds like a cardinal sin

[gusty silo]

at some point the duden accepted kucken if i recall correctly, but i imagine it's still not very common to actually see the k- form

[charred harbor]

To my understanding people don’t like it spelt that way

[gusty silo]

it's a case where a dialect and standard german developed a word very different :p

"schaung" is the common bavarian and austrian dialectal form, but you're not going to read that in standard german

[gusty silo]

(like, i do have the g- in my dialect actually but i would never pronounce it that way when speaking standard german. in standard german, the spelling is from the center-south but the dominant pronunciation is from the north. a particularly egregious example of the slightly mixed character of the standard language)

[celest scroll]

i have a (native) friend who exclusively writes "kucken" :D she is otherwise very strict about grammar/spelling so it always surprised me to see her do it

[gusty silo]

huh!

it's phonetically accurate and afaik got accepted by the Duden some time ago so 🤷

[celest scroll]

shes from recklinghausen NRW so it tracks with the map

[frail flume]

Si par hasard dans cette masse incroyable d'humain et de bot en tout genre, une âme charitable parlant la langue de Molière , voir même, soyons fou , plusieurs âmes charitable, et soyons même incroyablement pieux, parce qu' entre nous, au delà de la folie, n'est ce pas le royaume du divin? est ce que cette âme ou ces âmes charitable pourrais être intéressé(es) pour débattre sur des concepts culturel et donc linguistique et donc m'aider.
Comme par exemple ceci:
Je cite:

"Mais lorsque l'on glisse vers l'abstraction [: Er hängt an ihm//il tient à lui] l'utilisation du datif (dans le cas présent) est moins évidente !

On peut néanmoins le justifier dans cet exemple en s'appuyant sur l'argument suivant : l'attachement que l‘on ressent pour quelqu'un (ou quelque chose) est le constat d'un lien excluant toute dynamique, d'où le datif.

Dans l'exemple : "Ich glaube an ihn." en revanche, la foi que l'on met dans quelqu'un sera considérée comme directionnelle, d'où l'accusatif ! "

Parce que là, dans cet instant, je capte tout l'allemand et j'ai besoin de stimulation pour changer quelque association neuronales ^^

[ember lotus]

Mmmmm I love baguette

[long whale]

-> #other-languages 🍪

[frail flume]

and me le currywurst 🙂

[ember lotus]

All I can offer is a tarator 🙃

[frail flume]

tarator mummm why not, never tasted

[ember lotus]

It’s a cold soup which consists of small pieces of a cucumber, some herbs and some ayryan (Bulgarian yoghurt but beat down until it turns liquid). You’re definitely in the majority if you haven’t tried it, but it’s great!

PS: Fun fact! I’ve also had people call it “cum soup” upon seeing a picture!

[vague rain]

hallo, i have a question regarding wenn, how do i know whether this means "if" or "when" in a sentence?

[ember lotus]

Context

[vague rain]

can you elaborate?

[ember lotus]

You have context usually when you see a word

If it’s a regularly occurring thing it would mean “when”

If you’re stating a condition it would mean “if”

You just have to pick up which meaning it is

You do that with context

[vague rain]

might it sometimes go with either?

like "Stört es dich, wenn die Kinder schreien?"

[long whale]

To my knowledge, all children will scream sooner rather than later. So, that's definitely "when", not "if".

[vague rain]

😂 ok makes sense

[warped oriole]

Yes with "wenn" you need kontext. But if you want to be more specific then you can use falls (in case) for if and sobald (as soon as) for when.

[frail flume]

the first thing any human does is scream 😅

[frail flume]

so, it's good when. When will he understand that he can do otherwise 🤣

[outer edge]

Hi
Gefällt dir das Leben in Deutschland? and Magst du das Leben in Deutschland?
do both phrases mean the same and are both correct?

[warm geyser]

Yes basicially they mean the same

[plush pelican]

German's penchant for run-on sentences continually astonishes me.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saladin#Tod,_Ehrengrab_und_Nachfolge

Saladin kehrte im November 1192 nach Damaskus zurück, wo sein Sohn al-Afdal zu ihm stieß. Dieser übernahm während Saladins im Februar 1193 offenbar werdender, zum Tod führender Krankheit immer mehr administrative Aufgaben von seinem Vater. Saladin starb am 3. oder 4. März 1193 im Alter von 55 Jahren in Damaskus.

He assumed during Saladin's in-February-1193-more-obvious-becoming-to-death-leading-sickness more and more administrative tasks from his father.

Does this sound good, stylistically, to Germans?

[celest scroll]

not a native but a german: reads pretty normal to me for this type of text

[plush pelican]

Wait, you're C-level and German, but not a native?

[celest scroll]

correct

[plush pelican]

You grew up in another country as the child of a German/Germans?

[celest scroll]

no, i am a german citizen living in germany

[plush pelican]

You grew up in Germany but aren't a native speaker of German?

[celest scroll]

germany allows for naturalization you know :)

i'm from another country, moved to germany, learned german, became german

[plush pelican]

You meant "German" as in "naturalized German"?

[celest scroll]

german refers to someone with a german passport irrespective of their native language

[plush pelican]

It's weird to use a definition that is irrespective of language within the context of languages

[celest scroll]

then say you'd like a native :)

[long whale]

Isn't it just as weird as using a definition referring to language within the context of citizenship? ;)

[celest scroll]

saying you want a "German" also leaves out any natives from other DACH countries

[plush pelican]

I wasn't talking about citizenship, my original comment was talking about language. I meant someone who was a native German speaker.

Then he said a combination that I didn't understand, and I was trying to guess in which way he meant it.

[plain umbra]

Was the first line about run-on sentences meant to be related to the example sentence given?

[long whale]

A little nitpicking: He assumed during Saladin's in-February-1193-more-obvious-becoming-to-death-leading-sickness more and more administrative tasks from his father.

[plush pelican]

Yes

[plush pelican]

Offenbar werdender

The -er isn't more?

[long whale]

No.

[plain umbra]

Oh okay. The example doesn't have any run-on sentence. I assume you're referring to the extended adjective thing. I can't remember the name of that.

[plush pelican]

Where's the suffix coming from?

[long whale]

Krankheit.

[plush pelican]

Partizipialsatz

[plush pelican]

How is it in dative or genitive?

[long whale]

Genitiv: während

[plush pelican]

Ah, I see

I get lost in these extended Partizipialsätze

[celest scroll]

they can be really tricky to pick apart

[plain umbra]

Hmm, okay. Just for clarity, run-on sentence means when you connect main clauses with a comma.

[plush pelican]

we've talked about this before, I believe

When I say "run-on sentence", I mean that the Partizipialsatz feels like it needs to be broken out into its own clause, as though they're trying to put a whole other clause inside of a clause without even delineating it with commas. Which they are.

In no other situation is it okay to just suddenly insert an entire clause into a clause without at least using commas

[plain umbra]

Okay, I see. I just wanted to point it out because "run-on sentence" is a set phrase in English referring to a specific type of grammar mistake and if you use that terminology it could very easily confuse the person answering the question.

[plush pelican]

It is a run-on sentence. It's taking two main ideas and not separating them by commas

It's just that in the German language, this way of forming a run-on sentence is grammatically valid

[plain umbra]

No, that's not quite the same thing. It means a sentence like "I am learning German I study every day it is fun."

[long whale]

Yes. If you feel the above sentence is complicated, I could easily provide an example sentence from one of the books I inherited from my grandfather which will make your (and any modern German native speaker's) eyes bleed. :D

[plush pelican]

Like "I am learning the every day more fun making and studied German"

[plain umbra]

Right. That's not a run-on sentence but it is an improperly-punctuated one.

[plush pelican]

I've heard that in the 1800s or whatever, it used to be fashionable to intentionally create Schachtelsätze, I believe you

[long whale]

No, no, those books are barely 100 years old. ;)

[plush pelican]

My sentence and yours both contain 2 main ideas in a single clause without commas

Well, 3

[plain umbra]

But not two independent clauses adjacent to each other. It's an independent clause with participles inserted.

Like for example "I am learning German it is fun" is a run on sentence but "I am it is fun learning German" is not.

[plush pelican]

You are arguing about the letter of the law. I am talking about the spirit of it

[plain umbra]

I am just pointing out that you used the wrong terminology which may confuse someone who tries to answer your question. I don't get why you're being overly defensive about that.

[plush pelican]

In the same way that Schachtelsätze, although grammatically valid, are still a bad idea, these kinds of extended Partizipialsätze are a bad idea, because it's too many ideas contained in a single unbroken clause.

It makes for confused and tortured writing

[plain umbra]

Okay, since that's a completely separate and unrelated topic to what we were just discussing, I'll leave it at that.

[plush pelican]

It's the same topic.

The issue with a run-on sentence is not merely the physical placement of commas, it is that the meaning is not clear because of things being jumbled up together in a way that the reader has to rather disentangle rather than read.

[plain umbra]

I just simply corrected the terminology. The topic you're bringing up now, of the effects or consequences of such a sentence, how it relates to other grammar mistakes, and whether it's bad or not, is an entirely different discussion. I just want to clearly delineate that from anything I said.

[hasty forge]

Hallo Leute. Wohnt jemand in Österreich?

[long whale]

If your question is language related, you can just ask anyway. If it's culture related, better post in #1033125270217048246 🌻

[hasty forge]

it's about living in austria

[kind knoll]

then #1033125270217048246 it is!

[outer edge]

Hi I have a question
If I want to say: I go to the park, I'd say: Ich gehe in den Park
But if I want to say: I go to the hospital, do I say: "Ich gehe zum Krankenhaus" or "Ich gehe ins Krankenhaus"
?

[south zenith]

both work, but 'zum Krankenhaus' doesnt necessarily mean youre going into the building, you might wait outside or something

[outer edge]

haha what an oddly specific language

thanks

[charred harbor]

English works the same way
I’m going to the park (could be inside or not)
I’m going in(to) the park (100% going inside)

[vague rain]

hallo, ich habe eine Frage über Adjektiv

[kind knoll]

go ahead

[vague rain]

im sorry this is silly but how do i know when to add the "n" to an adjective?

[kind knoll]

you mean the declinications?

[long whale]

https://deutschlernerblog.de/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Adjektivdeklination_alle_Deklinationstypen_in_einer_Tabelle.png

Does this help?

[vague rain]

im not familiar with the term but for example deutsche -> deutschen

[vague rain]

that probably will help let me see

[vague rain]

ok yeah its not completely clear to me but ill continue with the practice and keep this in mind 🙂 vielen dank

[kind knoll]

have you studied the cases yet?

[vague rain]

all but dativ

[kind knoll]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbWOui-V-U4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsnXkUeITTM

perhaps these will help

[vague rain]

occasionally have trouble with mixing dativ and accusativ, but practice makes better

[vague rain]

danke sehr, ich kann diese Vidoes später sehen

[long whale]

Depending on the way your mind works, this may be either really helpful or really painful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aJzTmi7Ms4 ;)

[vague rain]

i'll get back to you if i'm still struggling

[vague rain]

😂 ill let you know, ill be able to watch them all later today

[long whale]

Yeah, mine's really short. :D

[frail heron]

bonk ohlexiepedia

[stoic mauve]

@primal hornet disarms you and gives you a taste of your own medicine. Serves you right.

[frail heron]

Fuck

[fervent kernel]

How to use German Declensions?
How do German learn 4 cases: Nomiative, Gentive, Accusative, Dative?
How to use four cases?
I'm suffering from learning them?

[plain umbra]

Basically don't try to learn it all as one topic. Split it up into a few topics.

Start with just simple sentences with a subject, verb and object.

[light rain]

Hello, everyone.
Grammar check: A topic I still struggle with is "Infinitiv + 'zu'".

I have come across this topic amongst the many resources I have used but the explanations are a bit tricky. I usually ace the exercises because I have a vague, 'homemade' understanding of it. But I need something more concrete/definite.

Dafür wäre ich dankbar. 🙏🏽

[long whale]

I'm afraid there is nothing to understand there. Ich fürchte, es gibt da nichts zu verstehen. <- Sometimes, English and German correspond, and a verb or an expression requires an infinitive with "to/zu" in both. Sometimes, they don't: I want to learn German. Ich will Deutsch -- lernen. Unfortunately, learning a language is always problematic. Leider ist es immer problematisch, eine Sprache zu lernen. 🤷

[light rain]

A very creative answer. 😄

Vielen Dank, ❄🔔

[turbid perch]

Hallo
Can someone recommend me A1 level books or newspapers ??

[plush pelican]

The only stuff at A1 level is going to be graded readers, books written specifically to your level.

I know of some videos for A1: https://youtu.be/JrRWgjjZdnQ?si=2Mij_I-CgMmdQGIs

The only graded reader stuff I know of for A1/A2 is "Dino Lernt Deutsch"

https://www.amazon.com/Learn-German-Stories-Collectors-Vocabulary-ebook/dp/B00W9L9F9A

[turbid perch]

Alright thanks

[scenic siren]

"Ich baue eine Mauer aus Müll, damit Janusz sich endlich um das Müll problem kümmert"
Why does the second part sound so strange to remember?
I expected something like "um Janusz sich endlich mit das Müll problem kümmert "

[plush pelican]

So the "um" isn't coming from an "um...zu..." Infinitivsatz, which is probably what you're thinking of by having the "um" way up front

It's from the phrase "sich um etw. kümmern"

Ich kümmere mich um das Müllproblem.
I take care of the trash problem.

"damit" is used here because the clauses have two different subjects: The first clause has "ich" as a subject, the second "Janusz"

If the two clauses have different subjects, you can't use an "um...zu..." Infinitivsatz, you must use "damit"

Ich arbeite, um Geld zu haben.
I work in order to have money (in order that I have money)

Ich arbeite, damit meine Mutter Geld hat.
I work so that my mother has money.

[scenic siren]

😮 sehr hilfbereit vielen Dank

[vestal wagon]

Is hammers German grammar and usage worth buying?

[long whale]

IMO, it's definitely worth having. ;)

[plain umbra]

It's a great book but too expensive to buy imo.

[vestal wagon]

I am currently a new b2

[vague rain]

this video was great 😂 i loved it

ok i haven't had the time to look at the other two videos yet but ive come up with a question,

why is it "diese japanischen Romane sind sehr aufregend" instead of " - japanische Romane - "?

[tiny scaffold]

Because that adjective needs to reflect the plural noun

"diese japanische Roman" - this Japanese novel
"diese japanischen Romane" - these Japanese novels

It's because "diese" is the same for feminine single and feminine plural, so the adjective must help show the plurality

[vague rain]

ah danke sehr!! it makes a lot of sense now

🙂

[tiny scaffold]

If you're trying to say thanks a lot or something to that nature, it'd be "Vielen Dank"

[long whale]

Singular: dieser japanische Roman ;)

[long whale]

these Japanese novels vs. Japanese novels

[little owl]

Hello everyone! how do I unlock voice chat?

[stoic mauve]

@little owl, please read the Roles section in #getting-started for info on how to join VC and more.

[weak jacinth]

Is "Können Sie sich bitte vorstellen?" And "Können Die sich vorstelen,bitte?" The same, if not why? Danke schön 🙂

[long whale]

No. "die" (as a plural pronoun) = these/those ones. Sie = formal "you" (singular & plural)

[tiny scaffold]

Oyoyoy, danke. It was late :p

[icy flax]

Ich hab ihnen es drauf verschwenden hören, was sie alles nicht können.

Beudeutet es in anderen Worten, dass sie nur sagten, dass sie einige Dinge nicht tun können?

[delicate tiger]

Ich bin mir nicht sicher, dass es überhaupt irgendwas bedeutet

[icy flax]

Voller Satz ohne Pronomen:

Selbst bei Kandidatenreden für eine Landeswahlliste zur Bundestagswahl habe ich Frauen einen nennenswerten Anteil ihrer auf zehn Minuten begrenzten Redezeit darauf verschwenden hören, was sie alles nicht können.

Ich glaub, die Authorin habe Frauen in dieser Situation gehört, die erwähnt hätten, alles was sie nicht tun können.

Ist es das?

Andere Frage. Wenn sie Leistung trägt, dann ist sie super gut, nicht?! Warum sind ihre Karten dann nicht besonders gut? Ist es, dasa ein Leistungträger für Sozialrecht steht? #BinVerwirrt

Wenn aber Vorgesetze denken, dass zum Beispiel Frau Schmidt eine wichtige Leistungsträgerin im Teams ist und das tunlichst bleiben sollte, dann sind ihre Karten nicht besonder gut

[long whale]

... die Autorin behauptet gehört zu haben, dass Frauen in dieser Situation davon sprachen, was sie alles nicht konnten.

[icy flax]

Und wie schreibe ich, wenn ich nicht behaupten will, dass sie sie gehört haben, also indirekte rede? *habe gehört (nicht?)

[long whale]

Wenn die Chefs denken, dass Frau Schmidt im Team bleiben sollte, weil das Team ihretwegen besonders leistungsfähig ist, dann wird Frau Schmidt bestimmt nicht befördert (= sie hat keine guten Karten)

[delicate tiger]

möglicherweise weil sie so wichtig für das Team ist, dass sie nicht befördert wird/weden kann

[icy flax]

Sie hätte gehört, dass Frauen in dieser Situation davon sprachen (gesprochen hätten?), was sie alles nicht konnten (können hätten?).

[long whale]

I've changed my sentence accordingly.

[icy flax]

Ohh.. du änderst nur den Anfang, all der Rest bleibt das selbe

Danke Dir, Susana! Das war ein großer Unsicherheitspunkt für mich seit Jahren, aber ich vergiss zu fragen.

Und, @long whale, könntest du da auch statt "sie hat behauptet, ..." K1 benutzt haben?

[long whale]

[Die Autorin sagt,] sie hätte habe gehört, dass Frauen in dieser Situation davon sprachen gesprochen hätten, was sie alles nicht konnten (können hätten?) könnten.

[plush pelican]

that Ersatzinfinitiv, tho

AND a Partizipialsatz as an adjective 😵‍💫

[plush pelican]

Here's how I understand and translate it:

Even for candidate speeches for a regional election list for the national elections, I've heard women wasting a noteworthy portion of their speaking time (which is limited to 10 minutes), talking about everything that they can't do.

(Implication: They should've been spending that time talking about things they can do, rather than talking about reasons not to elect them.)

[gloomy tartan]

Der Arzt hat gesagt, dass der Patient drei Tage im Krankenhaus hat bleiben sollen

Is the second "hat" really necessary in this sentence?

[plush pelican]

It's in Perfekt tense. If you want to change that to Präsens, you can remove the "hat" and change the "sollen" to "soll", but then you've changed the tense of the statement

[ember lotus]

How’d you word it instead

[long whale]

You definitely can't just remove the 2nd "hat". Still, the sentence is weird the way it is.

[gloomy tartan]

Okay. Well, I guess it becomes apparent that I'm not a native speaker then. I would have simply omitted the second "hat" and written "Der Arzt hat gesagt, dass der Patient drei Tage im Krankenhaus bleiben soll"

[plush pelican]

Should such statements be in Präsens generally?

[plush pelican]

"der Patient" doesn't match with "sollen"

[long whale]

No, that's not the problem. The question is: why "hat sollen"?

[ember lotus]

This is a valid sentence, but it changes the meaning (by changing the tense).

[plush pelican]

I assume that the patient didn't stay in bed for 3 days?

[ember lotus]

But it also does sound weird in the original version, I’d personally either use Präteritum or Konjunktiv II instead of regular perfekt, but that might be wrong

I’d try to give a better explanation but Frosty is here so it would be in vein

[ember lotus]

I thought so but you can’t be sure

[plush pelican]

He said that the patient should've stayed in bed 3 days (but they didn't, and now we have to deal with them messing up their recovery)?

[ember lotus]

You might just be stating what the doctor said to do

He said the patient should stay in bed for 3 days (and that’s why he’s currently in bed)

No context - can’t differentiate

[ember lotus]

And this version would be more fitting if the sentence was in the Konjunktiv, but that could be what the person actually wanted to say and we just can’t know

[long whale]

Ehh - omitting the 2nd "hat" is not an option...

[ember lotus]

I was talking about the sentence he put in quotes (with the conjugated sollen at the end)

[plush pelican]

Der Arzt hat gesagt, dass der Patient drei Tage im Krankenhaus hat bleiben sollen

That's not a valid sentence?

[ember lotus]

It seems perfectly valid to me what he wrote

It just has an entirely different meaning and thus would not work

But the actual grammar seems fine

[gloomy tartan]

What is the difference in meaning then?

[long whale]

Yes, that one is. 😅 The one you'd referred to was not, that was my problem.

[plush pelican]

I said repeatedly "you have to change sollen to soll if you want to remove the 'hat'"

[ember lotus]

Different tenses

Different time

Anyways @long whale if we were to word the same sentence in the Konjunktiv (which sounds much better imo), where’d we put the hätte? At the end of the sentence or at the place where the hat currently is

I’d think it should go to the end (since it’s the conjugated verb) but DeepL says to put it before all other verbs

[plush pelican]

This is the notorious "Ersatzinfinitiv" or Double Infinitive

[ember lotus]

I’m not sure if that was just a weird Ersatzinfinitiv rule

[ember lotus]

Yeah I read about it a while ago

[plush pelican]

"sollen" is a modal verb, so it's one of the verbs that has the Ersatzinfinitiv

[long whale]

But that is another way of changing the meaning entirely. If you say: "Der Arzt hat gesagt, der Patient hätte drei Tage im Krankenhaus bleiben sollen" it's valid, but it means the patient did NOT stay.

[ember lotus]

I didn’t think anyone normal would try using it in perfekt tho

[ember lotus]

We do not know if he did, which is why I was confused earlier

I’d assume the patient did, I was just curious about the specific case of ersatzinfinitiv in this sentence and where the hätte would go

Like why is the hat and why would the hätte not get moved to the very end of the sentence

[long whale]

Yeah, if you go for one of the usual versions, i.e. "Der Arzt hat gesagt, der Patient solle/sollte/soll drei Tage im K. bleiben", it just means the doctor recommended it.

[plush pelican]

"Why would it not move to the end" is because of Ersatzinfinitiv, my dude

Ersatzinfinitiv totally fucks up Nebensatz word order

[ember lotus]

But why

Anyways im never using that willingly in Perfekt, should not matter

Better not to seek reason

[plush pelican]

Ask a linguist if you want why, we can only explain how

[gloomy tartan]

Maybe I'm daft. But I still don't see the difference in meaning. They are both in the past. Does the tense imply some difference in meaning? If yes, which? Don't they translate into the exact same sentence in English?

Der Arzt hat gesagt, dass der Patient drei Tage im Krankenhaus hat bleiben sollen - The doctor said that the patient should stay in the hospital for three days

Der Arzt hat gesagt, dass der Patient drei Tage im Krankenhaus bleiben soll - The doctor said that the patient should stay in the hospital for three days

[plush pelican]

"should've stayed" for the first one, you've got the tense wrong in English

[ember lotus]

The second one is definitely not in the past

[long whale]

To me, using Perfekt for modal verbs is firmly in the realm of dialect.

[ember lotus]

The first one implies both actions were in the past (both the saying and the staying in bed), the second implies that the doctor said something and that’s why the patient is presumably in bed right now

[plush pelican]

You mean Perfekt instead of Präteritum?

[ember lotus]

Oh hey that seems useful

[plain umbra]

Yeah. That's pretty much just for people who speak with 0 Präteritum in their speech.

[ember lotus]

Ikr, nobody sane would choose to make a sentence with like 3+ verbs

I guess the Konjunktiv is the only case where it’s the best option to choose

[delicate tiger]

"...hat sollen bleiben" (word order) for dialect

[ember lotus]

Is that just for dialect or is that the actual word order you’d use in such a sentence?

[long whale]

dialect only

as they noted

[plush pelican]

In other words:

In the first one, they're using past tense stuff to indicate that the patient did not, in fact, stay for 3 days; that the patient left before the 3 days were up, and that this leaving occurred at some point prior to the time of the conversation.

In the second, this may just be general advice: The doctor said the patient should stay in bed for 3 days. Here, we don't know if the patient is still in that 3 day period, if they haven't begun it yet, or if they've already finished it and can leave now.

At least, that's how I understand it

[ember lotus]

Wanted to make sure

#dialects is a scary place

Every time I go there it’s the most ego crushing experience ever

[plush pelican]

Even native Germans don't understand each others' dialects

[ember lotus]

I sure wonder why

[plush pelican]

?

Oh, did you mean that literally, or like, "Yeah, no joke"

[ember lotus]

Is that.. is that the same language..?

[ember lotus]

The latter

I am hiding that channel

I’m not going back

[plush pelican]

Das kannst du schreiben, wie du möchtest
Das sieht ... jeder .... anders?

[ember lotus]

Schrybö my beloved

Truly the word of all time

[long whale]

Mm. Das sieht jeder ein bisschen anders.

[kind knoll]

This is the equivalent of studying English and hearing dutch

[delicate tiger]

Dat kanste schrivve widde willst (For a different dialect version)

[plush pelican]

That version seems a lot closer to Hochdeutsch. Where are both versions from?

[plush pelican]

What's the "ou"?

"ä klääle" = ein bisschen? I guess they have a different word for "bisschen"?

[ember lotus]

That does sound understandable now that I got to read it a few times at my own pace! That must surely translate to hearing a native talk with the dialect, right!

[delicate tiger]

"Das sieht auch jeder ein kleinchen anders"

[plush pelican]

Let us review, 🤣

[delicate tiger]

meine: Köln/Rheinland

[plush pelican]

Do you speak in dialect with your family?

Or with whom do you use the dialect?

[whole portal]

Das sieht auch jeder ein wenig anders ...?

Oh its already answered

[plush pelican]

What difference, if any, is there between "auf etw./jdn. richten" and "an etw./jdn. richten"?

as far as I can tell from here, "auf" can be used in a literal sense, like "die Waffe auf ihn richten", but both "auf" and "an" can be used in a figurative sense.

https://www.dwds.de/wb/richten

[celest scroll]

kölsch my beloved

[long whale]

But for "das Wort/ein Schreiben an jemanden richten", only "an" works. And DWDS differentiates between "an" and "auf" even "im übertragenen Sinne" (for "richten"). 🤷

[plush pelican]

But...when do I use which one?

[long whale]

I'm not quite sure what you expect from me? It might be somewhat similar to point/direct sth at/auf vs. to/an? Apart from that, you'd have to ask me about sth specific - or check DWDS, I'm afraid.

[plush pelican]

I mean, the DWDS has several examples, but it seems like the two can also overlap, and I have no clear idea of where that boundary lies

DWDS has the example: "sein Interesse ist ganz auf seine neue Arbeit gerichtet"

Can you say: "sein Interesse ist ganz an seine neue Arbeit gerichtet"?

[long whale]

No. - I just read through the DWDS entry and I can't see any overlap...?

[plush pelican]

overlap of what?

[long whale]

No idea. You said that. 🤷

[plush pelican]

I mean, both seem to be able to be used figuratively

but you seem to be saying that "an" can only be used with certain figurative things, and "auf" only with other, mutually exclusive figurative things

where is this line between these groups of figurative things?

[long whale]

How... sniff... would I... know? 🥹

[plush pelican]

I have a flashcard deck with these examples:

"Das Buch richtet sich an das Verantwortungsbewusstsein der Leser."

"Wir sollten unsere ganze Aufmerksamkeit auf dieses Problem richten."

[plush pelican]

But...that's my whole question, Susana?

The whole point was I was asking about how to differentiate about when to use "auf etw. richten" versus "an etw. richten"

[long whale]

And I started out by saying I wasn't sure what you expected from me... Okay, so... let's see... in the examples from your flashcards, I think the 1st might translate to... "addresses", maybe? Not at all sure... But the 2nd one is clearly "to focus on". Which wouldn't work at all for the 1st, I feel...

"looks to" for the 1st?

So... maybe... "richten an" presupposes some kind of receptive-ness of the receiver?

[plush pelican]

Based on the stuff listed in DWDS, it seems like "an jdn. richten" has something to do with words, messages, communication.
and "auf jdn. richten" seems to have to something to do with thoughts or intents?

[long whale]

That means #questions-2 message kind of works, doesn't it...?