#NatDex Other Tiers

16226 messages · Page 17 of 17 (latest)

scenic gate
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thanks for the advice i really appreciate it

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ill build a new team then

boreal escarp
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https://pokepast.es/1c8f07459f9814c8 I'm trying to build a Balance team around Arceus-Rock, Mega Venusaur and Chien Pao in Nat Dex Ubers and I need help

Arceus-Rock have a niche in Nat Dex Ubers, it can check Ho-Oh, Mega Salamence, Yveltal, Chi-Yu and Rayquaza and it has good bulk and that EV investion is not actually random and Smogon Analyzers think very well on EV investment on Arceus-Rock (You can look it) and it can thank super effective hits that all Arceus forms that can do the reason I don't use Garg is simple Arceus-Rock has more fire power, much faster and has much better status moves than Garganacl

Mega Venusaur is here because it can check problematic mons like Kyogre, Zygarde, Marshadow, support Arceus forms, Arceus-Ground and Alomomola for Arceus-Rock to function as a Utility Support mon. Mega Venusaur has ton of recovery options if it is not statused the reason I don't use Ferrothorn is Ferrothorn doesn't have a reliable recovery and can't check Marshadow very well

The offensive wallbreaker of the team Chien Pao (I forgot to change Sacred Sword to Sucker Punch please asuming Chien Pao have Sucker Punch) Chien Pao checking pokemon that threaten Mega Venusaur like Ultra Necrozma, Lunala, maybe Necrozma-DM and putting pressure on other meta viable mons with ease.

What I need for this team, what can I change and What can I put to the team?

random wadi
boreal escarp
random wadi
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feel like even with venu, pgore still destroys half of your team

random wadi
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problem with low tier mons is that they need a whole team to help and support them to be good, mashing up two makes it far harder to make the team good

crimson obsidian
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you'd want that venu slot to be something that soft checks zacian-c at least

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and zyg should be tera fairy

pallid oriole
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probably pdon

turbid terrace
turbid terrace
rocky granite
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so it js says sucker

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lol

turbid terrace
turbid terrace
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Who pinged me

earnest haven
turbid terrace
earnest haven
# turbid terrace I saw you had some input on the team?

I do! Couple of things I noticed and would change:

  • General note, Slowking/Ursa-B/Incin should all be on even-numbered HP due to current items/abilities or set changes listed below. Incin should be odd-numbered if you don't run Sitrus.
  • Kingambit: Neither Pokemon the AV is for are legal in NDDOU, so I think you're free to run a set closer to KGB's SVOU set (Black Glasses, Defiant, Tera Ghost/Fairy/Fire, reinvest the extra 20 SpD back into HP, and ditch Low Kick for Protect)
  • Slowking: Ice Beam could be a utility move, imo Toxic or Yawn (Screens, Protect, and HH are also good). Gets more value with Bronzong assuming you run a slightly different set (see below). Psyshock could be Psychic/Future Sight (you have plenty of Phys Pokemon already). Tera could also be Tera Fairy/Dragon (Dragon is a personal choice, makes Grass/Elec resist and removes weaknesses to Dark/Ghost/Bug)
  • Ursaluna-B: Quiet Nature if you want to. Makes it a better TR sweeper.
  • Incineroar: I think you can get away with running something closer to its NDDOU set (reinvest Spe into its defenses, Sitrus/HDB based on preference). Makes Incin more offensive as a support, you get access to Taunt which is good into opposing TR teams + setup, and it gets you off of Safety Goggles and onto something more reliable (also makes Tera Grass more worthwhile, Safety Goggles makes that Tera redundant except for weather chip).
  • Bronzong: Should be on Gyro Ball. You don't have IDef for BPress, and Gyro Ball's damage isn't affected by TR. I would also strongly suggest the Psychium-Z set or a variant of it (Gyro Ball, Protect/SR/Ice Spinner, Hypnosis, TR). Rocks is good if you're running Toxic/Yawn on Slowking, and Ice Spinner is great into common terrain setters (e.g. Rillaboom + Tapu Fini)
  • Mawile-Mega: Obvious Sucker Punch fail, would swap the bonus EVs into SpD over Def.
upbeat beacon
# turbid terrace I think I perfected the team https://pokepast.es/003861b62fa8d9d2

Under no circumstance would I recommend using Slowking. You're better off using a stronger Trick Room setter such as Diancie or Gardevoir-Mega. There is a reason why I suggested Ursaluna and not the Bloodmoon variant. Guts + Flame Orb will allow it to never be Spore'd by Amoonguss. Also, you can use Earthquake if Bronzong (assuming its ability is Levitate) is right besides it. As for Bronzong, I still recommend using Trick Room (with Psychium Z), Hypnosis, Ice Spinner (in case there is Misty or Electric Terrain), and whatever you want here. As for Kingambit and Mawile-Mega, their roles are more or less the same; you really don't need both. In an earlier response to your team, I also recommended using Ogerpon-W as a redirector. A single Fake Out user (referring to your Incineroar) is not sufficient enough support for a Full Room team.

upbeat beacon
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Its a bit better. I doubt you see amoonguss often on ladder. Youre probably better off with sitrus berry. I recommend having flare blitz in case of steel types for your gardevoir. Sword Dance gambit is best gambit to guarantee OHKOs.

turbid terrace
rocky granite
dry ridgeBOT
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New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @crimson obsidian, @distant hearth, @pallid oriole. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

pallid oriole
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looks decent, though the pdon spread is supposed to be 140+ defense 120 spd not the other way aruond

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pogre looks like a tiny concern, but its not too bad and you should be able to out-offense it

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though protect over substitute is something idk if ive seen

rocky granite
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ok me'll sthap me thing of using mysterious Pdon EVs

pallid oriole
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i mean if there's a reason for the spread id like to hear about it

rocky granite
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also Protect is so it won't get instantly turned into dust by Zacian-crowned agaisnt Webs

pallid oriole
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but usually people go for 140+ defense to more reliably handle zacian

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i guess that's something, but i wouldn't. substitute generally offers more and even if zacian denies you mega on lead, clear body combined with it resisting yveltal, chi-yu, and ekiller makes mdia still amazing into webs and you still have fezandipiti to pivot into ho-oh which also helps a lot

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also giving a zacian a chance to get to +5 is something you never want

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one final thing is i think i'd go tera fairy on zygarde so you have something reliable into dd zyg

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and i think that's about it

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this does look potentially pretty scary for the record

rocky granite
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okeh

fast briar
dry ridgeBOT
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New [Gen 9] National Dex Doubles RMT @upbeat beacon, @strange knoll, @simple stag. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

rocky granite
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Everything else is unviable

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So pretty much the best answer is to look at the nefarious sample teams

upbeat beacon
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Its 2 am here so be patient.

fast briar
# upbeat beacon Its 2 am here so be patient.

i did pass out because it was two am for me too so answer when you can i, wanted to start with mega banette to use trick room and primarina to helpem and switching in great tusk, toxapex, or gardevoir depending on how im getting pressured then when trick room ran out i
if banettes dead switch in gardevoir, if not switch in incin to help banette if banette is still alive use destiny bond after trick room is up and try to clean up from there

so i played a few rounds with it and the opening works really well i have been able to consistently kill half their team without them setting up before they are able to kill either banette or primarina, however once one of them dies the rest of the team (besides great tusk who is relatively good at taking damage along with being great if they do setup to just roar) just get into the fight and die

fast briar
upbeat beacon
# fast briar i did pass out because it was two am for me too so answer when you can i, wanted...

The problem with your team is that a lot of mons that you are using are outclassed by a stronger mon or just not suited for a doubles format although they may be good in a singles format. First off, you need to know doubles fundamentals. Read https://www.smogon.com/smog/issue24/smogon_doubles. The "Concepts" section is good enough; everything is outdated since it was written during Gen 5.
As for mons that would absolutely replace your selected mons, here's a couple. Mega Gardevoir is of course a lot stronger than regular Gardevoir. Tapu Fini (Specs or Calm Mind set) is also a lot better than Primarina. Great Tusk found itself a recent niche in Sun teams, but your team is not utilizing Sun. Mons like Flutter Mane and Marshadow hit a lot harder than Banette. However, if it's more Trick Room setters that you want, then you got better choices such as Diancie. For poisoning your opponents, Glimmora is the best choice; of course, you just can't use it with Tapu Fini.
In order to make your team suitable for this format, there will have to be a lot of changes. I highly recommend taking a look at our current viability rankings (https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-doubles-viability-rankings.3757433/) and recent successful teams in tournaments (https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-doubles-team-bazaar.3733510/page-3) for a better understanding of the metagame. Good Luck.

fast briar
random wadi
dry ridgeBOT
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New [Gen 9] National Dex Doubles RMT @upbeat beacon, @strange knoll, @simple stag. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

upbeat beacon
random wadi
upbeat beacon
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No, it is one of the most used Trick Room setters in this format.

random wadi
upbeat beacon
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i recommend garde

lyric mist
dry ridgeBOT
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New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @crimson obsidian, @distant hearth, @pallid oriole. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

lyric mist
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trying to recover from the ndupl draft

crimson obsidian
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umm...this is really gimmicky

lyric mist
crimson obsidian
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you want eq on mence

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I'm an arceus-ghost hater, but you kind of want z on it if you're going to run it

lyric mist
crimson obsidian
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refresh

lyric mist
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guess i can max max mence too

crimson obsidian
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44 def can be nice for +1 blade after rocks

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also means pdon edge won't ko

lyric mist
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ok

random wadi
lyric mist
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dont think you need to max out attack on dd pdon

distant hearth
distant hearth
crimson obsidian
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Also this is ho, take the coverage

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If scarf yveltal is that much of an issue you can use tera fairy or something

dry ridgeBOT
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New [Gen 9] National Dex Doubles RMT @upbeat beacon, @strange knoll, @simple stag. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

fresh bridge
fresh bridge
upbeat beacon
# fresh bridge https://pokepast.es/c985c40333930a96

It looks like you were trying to change a variant of Hugo Room, a SV DOU sample team, for ND DOU. Unfortunately, the current team has way too many flaws to really work in ND DOU.
In this format, Mega Gardevoir as opposed to Hatterene is always recommended. Stacking Torkoal with Mega Camerupt may seen strong, but you're just stacking common weakness. Should the weather war not go your way, you now have two useless mons in your team.
Furthermore, you're placing too much reliance on the psy spammers to set up Trick Room. You also probably want mons that are resistant to Water type moves (even though you have Drought), Ground type moves, Flying type moves, and Normal type Moves.

upbeat beacon
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it's a team that a lot of ladderers use, or at least some variants of it. And honestly, it's the best of its kind ... as it is.

fresh bridge
upbeat beacon
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Well, that depends. Do you want to use Camerupt or Psy Spam?

fresh bridge
upbeat beacon
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I don't recommend it if you are just trying out the format because that would be going to the realm of using untiered mons. As for what each team would look like ... camel (https://pokepast.es/2e3f8a403f7c566c) and psy spam (https://pokepast.es/3b15bf8278650eec). I just made this right now, but this is how I would imagine current teams on tours would be made. You can also switch out Trick Room for Calm Mind if you want.

dry ridgeBOT
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Hey @graceful bluff, it looks like you're trying to share a gen9nationaldex team, but I didn't find any raters for that format in this channel. Try posting in #1059714627384115290 instead.

random wadi
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also don't forget to make the format national dex monotype so it can ping the raters

dry ridgeBOT
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Hey @graceful bluff, it looks like you're trying to share a gen9nationaldex team, but I didn't find any raters for that format in this channel. Try posting in #1059714627384115290 instead.

random wadi
graceful bluff
dry ridgeBOT
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New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @worthy fjord, @low ruin, @runic sage, @atomic salmon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

fresh bridge
dry ridgeBOT
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New [Gen 9] National Dex Doubles RMT @upbeat beacon, @strange knoll, @simple stag. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

fresh bridge
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And this

upbeat beacon
upbeat beacon
fresh bridge
fresh bridge
upbeat beacon
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Wait, we already had this discussion. You're the one who wanted to use Camerupt and Psy Spam.

fresh bridge
upbeat beacon
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For your second team, I would recommend changing at least half of your mons making it basically a completely different team. SV DOU teams don't change well into ND DOU teams. For reference, that would be like trying to make a Singles OU team from Singles UU team. For different formats, different archetypes and thus mons work effectively.

grand spear
graceful bluff
grand spear
graceful bluff
grand spear
graceful bluff
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aaaa

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well thats true

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I had mandibuzz before, but I changed it to g moltres to have a better coverage

grand spear
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Even if you do run into it, Conk gets handled by Golt anyway

graceful bluff
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but I might be facing nat dex teams overall

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so kingambit could be a thing

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for my team

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would you use it for the meowsca/weavile spot?

grand spear
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Maybe the NDMono discord would be of more assistance in this subject

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In all honesty I'm hardly an expert on Dark

graceful bluff
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could you share the link with me plsss

grand spear
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Sure gimme a sec

grand spear
dry ridgeBOT
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Hey @grand spear, there are presently no raters signed up to rate teams for gen9nationaldexuu. A rater in this channel may still step in and provide advice, but you can check out the resources for this format.

grand spear
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oh right i forgor

rocky granite
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The Hydrapple is missing 252 EVs

grand spear
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ah yep it sure is, I got it from the set compendium but I mustve somehow not dragged my mouse cursor over the HP EVs

grand spear
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oh yeah this drill should also definitely be Jolly

pastel glacier
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i already know this team sucks so can i get improvements pls

dry ridgeBOT
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New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @crimson obsidian, @distant hearth, @pallid oriole. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

distant hearth
# pastel glacier https://pokepast.es/e7d77fe8c35e5536

Basically everything but Ribombee and Necrozma-DM is unviable, and thus fixing this would effectively demand building a whole new team altogether

I would recommend to just use a sample team so you may get more familiarized with the metagame

pastel glacier
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ty

rocky granite
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since only Tapu Lele is actually viable in ND Ubers

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and really the only thing i'd say is, give the Hoopa-Unbound a Jolly nature since it's only using physical attacks

fresh bridge
rocky granite
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js change the format from National Dex Ubers, press da format thing and press National Dex Monotype

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and it goes tot hat format

pastel glacier
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but everything else is mostly the same

rocky granite
earnest haven
pastel glacier
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ty

rocky granite
left plinth
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National dex ubers doubles

upbeat beacon
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An ubers team should have at least 5 ubers mons.

left plinth
rocky granite
# left plinth

I don't even have to ask wut the format is, because the team is just bad

rocky granite
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since all the sets are bad

rocky granite
# left plinth National dex ubers
earnest haven
pallid gust
dry ridgeBOT
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New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @crimson obsidian, @distant hearth, @pallid oriole. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

crimson obsidian
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Replace it with helm Deo-S ig?

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Everything looks normal

pallid gust
crimson obsidian
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yes

pallid gust
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oh

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the only reason i have it is for anti smeargle leads

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cant spore it

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got the idea from somewhere in the forums im pretty sure

crimson obsidian
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yeah, deocys-s can do the same with taunt + rochy helmet + magic coat

pallid gust
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thats fair

pallid oriole
crimson obsidian
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It isn't something I'd recommend to anybody asking for advice

silent terrace
dry ridgeBOT
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Hey @silent terrace, there are presently no raters signed up to rate teams for gen9nationaldexaaa. A rater in this channel may still step in and provide advice, but you can check out the resources for this format.

inner cloak
dry ridgeBOT
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New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @crimson obsidian, @distant hearth, @pallid oriole. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

rocky granite
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Since a whopping 0 of the mons are anywhere close to being viable

pallid oriole
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which is to say that this is not the place for teams with arbitrary restrictions that do not help the team

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i will say that getting your unviable favorites to work is usually possible, but only if you have a strong understanding of the tier and only if you can accept that you're going to be able to run one of them at a time because you need the other five slots to shore up the weaknesses

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you have to know the rules before you can break them

pallid gust
random wadi
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also depending on scarf yve for removal is inconsistent

pallid gust
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mk

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what pdon set would u recomend?

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and is banded marsh ok?

rocky granite
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Banded Marshadow is a great option on Bulky Offense and balance teams

pallid gust
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cool beans

rocky granite
dry ridgeBOT
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New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @crimson obsidian, @distant hearth, @pallid oriole. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

distant hearth
# rocky granite https://pokepast.es/be3d7be6a79ce42d so anyways how's this team in which I put O...

May I ask what Okidogi's niche is meant to be here? It seems like it's trying to fill a similar meta role to Fezandipiti but in a worse way (lacking recovery, Yveltal and Arceus-Fairy can overwhelm this without much issue, etc). The niche of resisting Rock matters little when every mon that runs coverage of such type also runs Ground, and the Poison-type resist is useless when Eternatus can overwhelm this with Dragon STAB

I'd recommend to just swap Okidogi with Fez unless I'm missing something

pallid gust
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is fez actually good?

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ik its higher in the VR but

rocky granite
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So dat cool

distant hearth
# pallid gust is fez actually good?

It's a nice anti-meta mon and pivot as it's a surprisingly effective special wall as its typing and utility lets it check Calm Mind Arceus formes, Yveltal, and Eternatus, with Toxic Chain + Icy Wind + U-turn allowing it to hinder switch-ins while also granting it a statistical 50ish% chance to badly poison stuff like Ho-Oh whenever it forces a switch to something it can outspeed at -1

distant hearth
rocky granite
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There's also the thing of the Knock Off absorbers not liking getting potentially poisoned by toxic Chain. So that something

pallid gust
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Huh might have to try it then

rocky granite
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Since it is after all an UR mon

pallid gust
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Ye

rocky granite
distant hearth
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The team seems fairly standard beyond that

rocky granite
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Cool

crimson obsidian
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It is also what are you getting dogi in on?

rocky granite
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It can switch into CM Arceus-dark quite decently

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Which atleast is a very common pokemon

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And can atleast pivot into a Yveltal dark pulse

random wadi
pallid gust
dry ridgeBOT
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New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @worthy fjord, @low ruin, @runic sage, @atomic salmon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.

worthy fjord
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for more pivoting

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also, you can use no happiness on ditto or 128 happiness for malt reverse sweeps, and possibly stealth rock over toxic on Bliss