#NatDex Other Tiers
16226 messages · Page 17 of 17 (latest)
https://pokepast.es/1c8f07459f9814c8 I'm trying to build a Balance team around Arceus-Rock, Mega Venusaur and Chien Pao in Nat Dex Ubers and I need help
Arceus-Rock have a niche in Nat Dex Ubers, it can check Ho-Oh, Mega Salamence, Yveltal, Chi-Yu and Rayquaza and it has good bulk and that EV investion is not actually random and Smogon Analyzers think very well on EV investment on Arceus-Rock (You can look it) and it can thank super effective hits that all Arceus forms that can do the reason I don't use Garg is simple Arceus-Rock has more fire power, much faster and has much better status moves than Garganacl
Mega Venusaur is here because it can check problematic mons like Kyogre, Zygarde, Marshadow, support Arceus forms, Arceus-Ground and Alomomola for Arceus-Rock to function as a Utility Support mon. Mega Venusaur has ton of recovery options if it is not statused the reason I don't use Ferrothorn is Ferrothorn doesn't have a reliable recovery and can't check Marshadow very well
The offensive wallbreaker of the team Chien Pao (I forgot to change Sacred Sword to Sucker Punch please asuming Chien Pao have Sucker Punch) Chien Pao checking pokemon that threaten Mega Venusaur like Ultra Necrozma, Lunala, maybe Necrozma-DM and putting pressure on other meta viable mons with ease.
What I need for this team, what can I change and What can I put to the team?
uhh there is a spot left and also no tera
asume that Arceus-Rock have Rock tera type for more fire power and Zygarde have Water tera type
feel like even with venu, pgore still destroys half of your team
feels pointless since the set is support, not really for firepower you're better off with a defensive tera, also someone is prob going to tell you to bring the team to comp general since they only rate full teams
problem with low tier mons is that they need a whole team to help and support them to be good, mashing up two makes it far harder to make the team good
you'd want that venu slot to be something that soft checks zacian-c at least
and zyg should be tera fairy
sixth mon should be something that checks zac
probably pdon
I think I perfected the team
https://pokepast.es/003861b62fa8d9d2
sucker 😭
Huh
you didn't type the whole name for Sucker Punch on the mega Mawile
so it js says sucker
lol
Probably got cut off when I pasted it
Who pinged me
It was me, sorry 😭 Accidentally clicked enter too fast
I saw you had some input on the team?
I do! Couple of things I noticed and would change:
- General note, Slowking/Ursa-B/Incin should all be on even-numbered HP due to current items/abilities or set changes listed below. Incin should be odd-numbered if you don't run Sitrus.
- Kingambit: Neither Pokemon the AV is for are legal in NDDOU, so I think you're free to run a set closer to KGB's SVOU set (Black Glasses, Defiant, Tera Ghost/Fairy/Fire, reinvest the extra 20 SpD back into HP, and ditch Low Kick for Protect)
- Slowking: Ice Beam could be a utility move, imo Toxic or Yawn (Screens, Protect, and HH are also good). Gets more value with Bronzong assuming you run a slightly different set (see below). Psyshock could be Psychic/Future Sight (you have plenty of Phys Pokemon already). Tera could also be Tera Fairy/Dragon (Dragon is a personal choice, makes Grass/Elec resist and removes weaknesses to Dark/Ghost/Bug)
- Ursaluna-B: Quiet Nature if you want to. Makes it a better TR sweeper.
- Incineroar: I think you can get away with running something closer to its NDDOU set (reinvest Spe into its defenses, Sitrus/HDB based on preference). Makes Incin more offensive as a support, you get access to Taunt which is good into opposing TR teams + setup, and it gets you off of Safety Goggles and onto something more reliable (also makes Tera Grass more worthwhile, Safety Goggles makes that Tera redundant except for weather chip).
- Bronzong: Should be on Gyro Ball. You don't have IDef for BPress, and Gyro Ball's damage isn't affected by TR. I would also strongly suggest the Psychium-Z set or a variant of it (Gyro Ball, Protect/SR/Ice Spinner, Hypnosis, TR). Rocks is good if you're running Toxic/Yawn on Slowking, and Ice Spinner is great into common terrain setters (e.g. Rillaboom + Tapu Fini)
- Mawile-Mega: Obvious Sucker Punch fail, would swap the bonus EVs into SpD over Def.
Under no circumstance would I recommend using Slowking. You're better off using a stronger Trick Room setter such as Diancie or Gardevoir-Mega. There is a reason why I suggested Ursaluna and not the Bloodmoon variant. Guts + Flame Orb will allow it to never be Spore'd by Amoonguss. Also, you can use Earthquake if Bronzong (assuming its ability is Levitate) is right besides it. As for Bronzong, I still recommend using Trick Room (with Psychium Z), Hypnosis, Ice Spinner (in case there is Misty or Electric Terrain), and whatever you want here. As for Kingambit and Mawile-Mega, their roles are more or less the same; you really don't need both. In an earlier response to your team, I also recommended using Ogerpon-W as a redirector. A single Fake Out user (referring to your Incineroar) is not sufficient enough support for a Full Room team.
Its a bit better. I doubt you see amoonguss often on ladder. Youre probably better off with sitrus berry. I recommend having flare blitz in case of steel types for your gardevoir. Sword Dance gambit is best gambit to guarantee OHKOs.
Yeah, flare blitz deals with Rillaboom
https://pokepast.es/4b6dea1d884bb15d Thoughts about this team?
New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @crimson obsidian, @distant hearth, @pallid oriole. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
looks decent, though the pdon spread is supposed to be 140+ defense 120 spd not the other way aruond
pogre looks like a tiny concern, but its not too bad and you should be able to out-offense it
though protect over substitute is something idk if ive seen
ok me'll sthap me thing of using mysterious Pdon EVs
i mean if there's a reason for the spread id like to hear about it
also Protect is so it won't get instantly turned into dust by Zacian-crowned agaisnt Webs
but usually people go for 140+ defense to more reliably handle zacian
i guess that's something, but i wouldn't. substitute generally offers more and even if zacian denies you mega on lead, clear body combined with it resisting yveltal, chi-yu, and ekiller makes mdia still amazing into webs and you still have fezandipiti to pivot into ho-oh which also helps a lot
also giving a zacian a chance to get to +5 is something you never want
one final thing is i think i'd go tera fairy on zygarde so you have something reliable into dd zyg
and i think that's about it
this does look potentially pretty scary for the record
okeh
i do believe i have built a semi okay trick room team
https://pokepast.es/e0827b48d067f2e4
New [Gen 9] National Dex Doubles RMT @upbeat beacon, @strange knoll, @simple stag. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
Only Incineroar is actually good in ND Doubles
Everything else is unviable
So pretty much the best answer is to look at the nefarious sample teams
Tell me what your plan is and Ill help you out.
Its 2 am here so be patient.
i did pass out because it was two am for me too so answer when you can i, wanted to start with mega banette to use trick room and primarina to helpem and switching in great tusk, toxapex, or gardevoir depending on how im getting pressured then when trick room ran out i
if banettes dead switch in gardevoir, if not switch in incin to help banette if banette is still alive use destiny bond after trick room is up and try to clean up from there
so i played a few rounds with it and the opening works really well i have been able to consistently kill half their team without them setting up before they are able to kill either banette or primarina, however once one of them dies the rest of the team (besides great tusk who is relatively good at taking damage along with being great if they do setup to just roar) just get into the fight and die
whats wrong with banette hes felt really good?
The problem with your team is that a lot of mons that you are using are outclassed by a stronger mon or just not suited for a doubles format although they may be good in a singles format. First off, you need to know doubles fundamentals. Read https://www.smogon.com/smog/issue24/smogon_doubles. The "Concepts" section is good enough; everything is outdated since it was written during Gen 5.
As for mons that would absolutely replace your selected mons, here's a couple. Mega Gardevoir is of course a lot stronger than regular Gardevoir. Tapu Fini (Specs or Calm Mind set) is also a lot better than Primarina. Great Tusk found itself a recent niche in Sun teams, but your team is not utilizing Sun. Mons like Flutter Mane and Marshadow hit a lot harder than Banette. However, if it's more Trick Room setters that you want, then you got better choices such as Diancie. For poisoning your opponents, Glimmora is the best choice; of course, you just can't use it with Tapu Fini.
In order to make your team suitable for this format, there will have to be a lot of changes. I highly recommend taking a look at our current viability rankings (https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-doubles-viability-rankings.3757433/) and recent successful teams in tournaments (https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-doubles-team-bazaar.3733510/page-3) for a better understanding of the metagame. Good Luck.
i do appreciate it, i had a somewhat meta team previously someone made for me but i really wanted to use banette and have been trying to design a team for the first time thank you for the resource
https://pokepast.es/e4f582729ca012d8 is there a way to make the rain mu any better?
New [Gen 9] National Dex Doubles RMT @upbeat beacon, @strange knoll, @simple stag. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
I don't recommend using both Ursaluna and Camerupt in the same team; you're just stacking up common weaknesses. As always, Mega Gardevoir is better than Hatterene. Let's start from here, do you want to use Mega Gardevoir or Mega Camerupt?
isn't m-gard a tad too fast for trickroom?
No, it is one of the most used Trick Room setters in this format.
tbf I want to try out both mons in different (but similar) teams if possible
i recommend garde
New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @crimson obsidian, @distant hearth, @pallid oriole. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
trying to recover from the ndupl draft
umm...this is really gimmicky

you want eq on mence
I'm an arceus-ghost hater, but you kind of want z on it if you're going to run it
over what
refresh
ok alr
guess i can max max mence too
ok
https://pokepast.es/70c2b686227058ab recently a lot of my team had been deleted (the ones I didn't save them) so I made this quick HO team to rebuilt some of them, is it good?
dont think you need to max out attack on dd pdon
Agility Eternatus is rather matchup fishy here compared to SV Ubers as the meta isn't as offense-centric, meaning that this thuds into common BOs and bulkier structures by being unable to have longevity (compared to Recover + MBeam variants) or crucial coverage (Sludge Bomb discourages Fairy / Tera Fairy'd mons from switching in and lets it more easily pressure Ho-Oh with poisoning)
On the contrary, that's the standard spread, most notably +2 PBlades OHKOs defensive Zygarde after SR and a single layer of Spikes
Also this is ho, take the coverage
If scarf yveltal is that much of an issue you can use tera fairy or something
kk then
New [Gen 9] National Dex Doubles RMT @upbeat beacon, @strange knoll, @simple stag. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
This is the link
.
It looks like you were trying to change a variant of Hugo Room, a SV DOU sample team, for ND DOU. Unfortunately, the current team has way too many flaws to really work in ND DOU.
In this format, Mega Gardevoir as opposed to Hatterene is always recommended. Stacking Torkoal with Mega Camerupt may seen strong, but you're just stacking common weakness. Should the weather war not go your way, you now have two useless mons in your team.
Furthermore, you're placing too much reliance on the psy spammers to set up Trick Room. You also probably want mons that are resistant to Water type moves (even though you have Drought), Ground type moves, Flying type moves, and Normal type Moves.
Hugo room? What is this
Art by GenOne
Welcome to the Sample Teams thread! This thread is meant to highlight the best of the best teams in the Doubles OU tier. Sample Teams are exemplary teams that have proven themselves to be good and are basic enough for beginners to use, allowing them to pick up the fundamentals of...
it's a team that a lot of ladderers use, or at least some variants of it. And honestly, it's the best of its kind ... as it is.
How could I improve the team? Like, could you give it to me as an improved PokéPaste, or could you tell me what I could modify?
Well, that depends. Do you want to use Camerupt or Psy Spam?
Can't we have both? In any case, I'd like to see what each one would be like.
I don't recommend it if you are just trying out the format because that would be going to the realm of using untiered mons. As for what each team would look like ... camel (https://pokepast.es/2e3f8a403f7c566c) and psy spam (https://pokepast.es/3b15bf8278650eec). I just made this right now, but this is how I would imagine current teams on tours would be made. You can also switch out Trick Room for Calm Mind if you want.
Hey @graceful bluff, it looks like you're trying to share a gen9nationaldex team, but I didn't find any raters for that format in this channel. Try posting in #1059714627384115290 instead.
also don't forget to make the format national dex monotype so it can ping the raters
How do I do that sir
Hey @graceful bluff, it looks like you're trying to share a gen9nationaldex team, but I didn't find any raters for that format in this channel. Try posting in #1059714627384115290 instead.
click this on your team (which will be national dex here instead of OU) and search for national dex monotype
People I need suggestions for a NatDex Monotype dark team, this is my first time running mono so I would love to get some help
New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @worthy fjord, @low ruin, @runic sage, @atomic salmon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
New [Gen 9] National Dex Doubles RMT @upbeat beacon, @strange knoll, @simple stag. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
This is one is a variant of one of SV Doubles OU Sample Teams, Hugo Room. Obviously, use it for SV Doubles OU.
This is also a variant, but under no circumstance would a rator recommend using Slowking. The power level of mons used in Doubles is too high compared to Singles.
I was given that team for doubles OU, but I want to modify it for nat dex. Is that possible?
That's my original singles setup, I just swapped the Kingambit for the Indeede. What could I do to make it a doubles setup?
Wait, we already had this discussion. You're the one who wanted to use Camerupt and Psy Spam.
Yes, I just want to improve the second team a bit to make it a doubles team.
For your second team, I would recommend changing at least half of your mons making it basically a completely different team. SV DOU teams don't change well into ND DOU teams. For reference, that would be like trying to make a Singles OU team from Singles UU team. For different formats, different archetypes and thus mons work effectively.
Change it
You'd really want to replace Weavile with Scarf Meowscarada here. Might also be better off with Wisp > Toxic on MSab. Otherwise looks pretty good
thank you :). im mostly worried about mach punch guts stuff and probably volcarona
I can't really think of any relevant Mach Punch guts mons but yeah I think Volcarona is generally just a difficult match up for Dark
conkeldurr or the fire/fighting starter?
Keyword being relevant
aaaa
well thats true
I had mandibuzz before, but I changed it to g moltres to have a better coverage
Even if you do run into it, Conk gets handled by Golt anyway
yep
also one more thing, I know its mono
but I might be facing nat dex teams overall
so kingambit could be a thing
for my team
would you use it for the meowsca/weavile spot?
I mean I wouldn't want to run Mono against regular teams in the first place but I definitely wouldn't put it over Meow.
Maybe the NDMono discord would be of more assistance in this subject
In all honesty I'm hardly an expert on Dark
could you share the link with me plsss
Sure gimme a sec
https://pokepast.es/7d1453deceb3fbac (fixed hydrapples evs)
NDUU Sand, this kinda sucks ass but the samples still seem outdated
Hey @grand spear, there are presently no raters signed up to rate teams for gen9nationaldexuu. A rater in this channel may still step in and provide advice, but you can check out the resources for this format.
oh right i forgor
The Hydrapple is missing 252 EVs
ah yep it sure is, I got it from the set compendium but I mustve somehow not dragged my mouse cursor over the HP EVs
oh yeah this drill should also definitely be Jolly
New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @crimson obsidian, @distant hearth, @pallid oriole. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
Basically everything but Ribombee and Necrozma-DM is unviable, and thus fixing this would effectively demand building a whole new team altogether
I would recommend to just use a sample team so you may get more familiarized with the metagame
ty
I wasn't sayin dat to you, and this seems to be a National Dex Monotype team
since only Tapu Lele is actually viable in ND Ubers
and really the only thing i'd say is, give the Hoopa-Unbound a Jolly nature since it's only using physical attacks
I want to make a monotype team for National Dex, could you give me a hand?
js change the format from National Dex Ubers, press da format thing and press National Dex Monotype
and it goes tot hat format
ive sinced replaced salamence with
Zeraora @ Focus Sash
Ability: Volt Absorb
Shiny: Yes
Tera Type: Electric
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Plasma Fists
- Play Rough
- Drain Punch
- Bulk Up
but everything else is mostly the same
That's also unviable in ND Ubers
General rule of thumb, if you don't see the Pokemon show up under the Strategy Dex for your format, it's either unviable or needs a strong justification for why it's viable in that format, especially when it comes to Ubers (The NDUbers Strat Dex https://www.smogon.com/dex/sv/formats/national-dex-ubers/)
ty
No, he didn't send the Pokepaste link, which is required to get that thing to show up
An ubers team should have at least 5 ubers mons.
I don't even have to ask wut the format is, because the team is just bad
National dex ubers
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-ubers-sample-teams-updated-04-05-2026.3752303/ and these are the sample teams
art by Gaboswampert
The goal of this resource is to showcase good teams that are easy to pick up and use on the ladder. This should aid players in familiarizing themselves with the current National Dex Ubers metagame. We will try to actively look over the sample teams and ensure that they stay...
Additionally, unfinished teams don't belong in #1051236342740308089, that's specifically outlined in https://discord.com/channels/192713314399289344/1373406929317269624
https://pokepast.es/16f29a4c9d63acfb so i was helped making this team a couple months ago. and i wanted to just update any pokemon who need it moveset or ev wise
New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @crimson obsidian, @distant hearth, @pallid oriole. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
talking abt the toed being replaced?
yes
oh
the only reason i have it is for anti smeargle leads
cant spore it
got the idea from somewhere in the forums im pretty sure
yeah, deocys-s can do the same with taunt + rochy helmet + magic coat
thats fair
so then are we denouncing toed?
It isn't something I'd recommend to anybody asking for advice
hey guyshz do u leik my taem???/ https://pokepast.es/ccb157bd6e5ff6fb
Hey @silent terrace, there are presently no raters signed up to rate teams for gen9nationaldexaaa. A rater in this channel may still step in and provide advice, but you can check out the resources for this format.
Need some help to make my favs only team to become somewhat usable in competitive
https://pokepast.es/7bdee5df6adea1dd
New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @crimson obsidian, @distant hearth, @pallid oriole. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
Yeah uhh... there pretty much is no way to make it actually usable
Since a whopping 0 of the mons are anywhere close to being viable
unfortunately this is only the place for serious no nonsense teams devoid of whimsy. im afraid we can't help you here.
which is to say that this is not the place for teams with arbitrary restrictions that do not help the team
i will say that getting your unviable favorites to work is usually possible, but only if you have a strong understanding of the tier and only if you can accept that you're going to be able to run one of them at a time because you need the other five slots to shore up the weaknesses
you have to know the rules before you can break them
https://pokepast.es/9204a18610040e27 any suggestions on what changes i cna make?
two scarfers with one of them being marsh of all things is not good, also double dance Pdon is exclusively for HO
also depending on scarf yve for removal is inconsistent
Banded Marshadow is a great option on Bulky Offense and balance teams
cool beans
https://pokepast.es/be3d7be6a79ce42d so anyways how's this team in which I put Okidogi because every dog has it's day
New [Gen 9] National Dex Ubers RMT @crimson obsidian, @distant hearth, @pallid oriole. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
May I ask what Okidogi's niche is meant to be here? It seems like it's trying to fill a similar meta role to Fezandipiti but in a worse way (lacking recovery, Yveltal and Arceus-Fairy can overwhelm this without much issue, etc). The niche of resisting Rock matters little when every mon that runs coverage of such type also runs Ground, and the Poison-type resist is useless when Eternatus can overwhelm this with Dragon STAB
I'd recommend to just swap Okidogi with Fez unless I'm missing something
Knock Off is something, and toxic chain atleast means that switch-ins don't like getting afflicted by toxic
So dat cool
It's a nice anti-meta mon and pivot as it's a surprisingly effective special wall as its typing and utility lets it check Calm Mind Arceus formes, Yveltal, and Eternatus, with Toxic Chain + Icy Wind + U-turn allowing it to hinder switch-ins while also granting it a statistical 50ish% chance to badly poison stuff like Ho-Oh whenever it forces a switch to something it can outspeed at -1
Knock Off doesn't seem worth the trade-off in a meta that has a ton of Knock absorbers, especially as this gets forced out by key mons it'd want to Knock Off like Ho-Oh, and doesn't have the utility to at least lure them in like Ferrothorn
There's also the thing of the Knock Off absorbers not liking getting potentially poisoned by toxic Chain. So that something
Huh might have to try it then
Ehhh, probably shouldn't use it otherwise
Since it is after all an UR mon
Ye
Also any other issues with the other parts of the team aside from Okidogi?
The team seems fairly standard beyond that
Cool
It is also what are you getting dogi in on?
It can switch into CM Arceus-dark quite decently
Which atleast is a very common pokemon
And can atleast pivot into a Yveltal dark pulse
uhh, oblivion wing?
https://pokepast.es/8599196c67d4d3bc just a standard normal monotype team i think
New [Gen 9] National Dex Monotype RMT @worthy fjord, @low ruin, @runic sage, @atomic salmon. I won't notify you again for at least 6 hours.
yea, tho, would suggest using uturn on staraptor.
for more pivoting
also, you can use no happiness on ditto or 128 happiness for malt reverse sweeps, and possibly stealth rock over toxic on Bliss