#ik-2

1 messages · Page 23 of 1

loud patio
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I've also never encountered it but I have 10pt tracking

icy ferry
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the issue deals with elbow prediction so if you have elbow tracking then it'd eliminate the issue

final raven
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👁️

unknown.png
velvet beacon
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cmon, do somethin

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where's them notes

hot fulcrum
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not yet

velvet beacon
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Pausechamp

undone plinth
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  • Changed collision freezing behavior in FBT such that if your tracked hip is not colliding, IK will not freeze. This should allow you to, for example, lean over a table with a collider without freezing your tracking
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You madlads

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you actually implemented it

oak pendant
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IK-Beta build 12053
## Improvments
- Untracked elbow behavior should be more stable especially when moving your hand back behind your shoulder.
- Users without elbow trackers should now get a bit more expression in their shoulders, for example some basic shrugging is possible.
- Fixed a bug causing lower body to stay tracked, but freezing upper body during collisions (now the whole body will freeze properly).
- Changed collision freezing behavior in FBT such if your tracked hip is not colliding, IK will not freeze. This should allow you to, for example, lean over a table with a collider without freezing your tracking.
oak pendant
woven gulch
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yooo. I can lean over tables now???

oak pendant
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Yep!

fickle spear
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WHSAT

oak pendant
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(hip tracking required tho)

real bane
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nice, going to try it out

unique sinew
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Finally

undone plinth
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what happens when the hip tracker loses tracking because you leaned over it

vagrant vector
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Thank god 🙏

fickle spear
digital grove
unique sinew
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I mean another way around is to have your hip tracker behind your waist or side(?)

oak pendant
clever thicket
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finally... ik 3.0

final raven
oak pendant
unique sinew
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Oho, I see. vrcLike

oak pendant
undone plinth
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With everything else you can fix Kung can you fix my wrist that's forced me to reduce my time in vr vrcTupCry

round jewel
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Is the IK2.0 beta up on Steam already? I'm not seeing it in the Betas menu

undone plinth
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Restart steam

final raven
round jewel
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👍

oak pendant
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Also no change to head base collision, so as before if you stick your hip into a collider but your head is still out of the collider, your ik pose won't freeze

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player capsule is still attached to the head, but there's an extra check for the tracked hip* to see if it should "save you" from freezing

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In our internal testing it felt pretty intuitive and nice, but feedback plz as usual!

fickle spear
final raven
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Has there been a canny posted for that actually? 🤔

oak pendant
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Other changes to the player capsule might be nice, for example not falling off a cliff if you peek over the edge etc, but I'm interested in feedback on how this collision change affects people's feeling towards the head based capsule

round jewel
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I'm actually super excited about shoulders being more expressive and being able to shrug lol. that'll help when my mic suddenly stops working and i can't say "huh idk why it isn't working"

oak pendant
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3pt, 6pt, or any untracked elbow mode I mean

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So this pose should mostly work as long as your arms aren't way out to the sides 🤷

round jewel
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Gotcha

oak pendant
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(of course the avatar needs shoulder bones of at least medium length and weight painted to the mesh)

round jewel
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I like the idea of a rolling IK beta and love that it's live-compatible, I tend to jump into the betas right away but my friends don't so I appreciate that a lot

oak pendant
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Yeah tbh this is kind of an experiment, we'll see how it goes!

undone plinth
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Seems like when it's viable, it seems like the way to go so far

wheat river
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Hey! I made a feedback post (not a bug post), was wondering if i could post it here just to check if it's even possible.
It's totally fine if it's not okay to post.

oak pendant
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personally I feel it missing if we don't have super wide feedback on changes before pushing them live, with all the variety in avatars and IRL bodies and tracker mounting positions and hardware setups etc etc

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This is likely going to be an IK only type thing for now though, not really in the plans to have mini-betas for every new thing* that comes through

undone plinth
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For changes that can be network compatible it's definitely an appreciated way to do it.

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The beta branches tend to be pretty dead outside of when they first launch and community meetup, so this seems to be a very viable way of doing things when possible & they require this level of testing.

lethal light
oak pendant
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Yeah, because of the way playspace motion is tracked, that's kind of the way it has needed to work so far, so that it doesn't look like people are no-clipping all over (I know about freezing the player capsule with the main menu open though)

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Make sure to test out the elbow stuff too and not just the collider behavior. Further elbow changes were put aside pre-release because tuning them is a time consuming thing so getting more features in to the main release was higher priority than sinking all the time on elbows

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As a note, it's still possible to make them a bit spazzy if you totally force your wrist to overlap with the shoulder joint, but it should be way less spazzy than on live

wispy fractal
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I like new ik beta.

regal pier
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can the devs make it so that collision will only push the hip not the rest of the body

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so if you lean over a table too far it doesnt make your whole avatar freeze

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just pushes your hip out of the way of the table

oak pendant
# wispy fractal I like new ik beta.

Nice! Details about what's working well is also good to know. There's not really a place in canny for "I like ___" so I guess discord is the spot for those kinds of details

clever thicket
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new stuff is good

regal pier
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also i would like to see movement of the chest functional in Lock Head mode

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maybe even an option to adjust the viewpoint Z of an avatar so you can fit the character better, or to offset when calibrating by holding one trigger

oak pendant
regal pier
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yea although i think there should be more sophisticated collision

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like if your entire upper body is against a wall it is pretty obvious

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vs only lower body colliding with something

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so in that case you could also maybe even keep the feet tracking

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but it would need to follow the hip as its pushed out, not the rest of the body

oak pendant
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In general I want to make the collisions less strict so if your head isn't colliding pushing the hip into a collider wouldn't do anything (as it never has before)

regal pier
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like this

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allowing you to do stuff like lay on a table or bed

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by keeping tracking consistent on the lower body and pushing the hip

oak pendant
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More sophisticated ways of something flagging else to save you from tracking freezing might be nice.

regal pier
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yes yes like fences and prison bars

oak pendant
regal pier
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well no that would be based on step height

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it is quite annoying to try to grab something on a table and just

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WHOOMP

oak pendant
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Yeah or you might have to jump up I mean

regal pier
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onto the table you go in a split second

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like absoutely infuriating

oak pendant
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Ah yeah, that will still occur based on step based on step height now

regal pier
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but if it makes stairs work i guess its a necessary evil

oak pendant
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I think that falls under more having a hip (or foot or something) determined player collider itself

regal pier
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but that is exactly why i am bringing up that situation

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ye

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but that might also have a conflict

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i.e. small avatars going up stairs

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would be more realistic of course but might be annoying

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if step height based on avatar hip wasnt exploitable via playspace moving then it might work otherwise

oak pendant
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I think the step height shouldn't change for small avatars so they'd still be able to climb stairs. It might be nice to have the collision be more centered at the lower body because that's usually where it's detected from

regal pier
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mhm

oak pendant
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Yeah we probably wouldn't have the collider lifted up by playspace moving (or IRL moving)

regal pier
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i think the funniest issue ive had is when i picked a small avatar and tried to reach something on a bed

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it teleported me to the top of the bed

oak pendant
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But things like balancing on a "walk the plank" type situation where foot or at least balanced hip position matter sounds fun

regal pier
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definitely

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it would also work for halfbody users

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so if they leaned over a table it would also push their lower body

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but then there is also a case for halfbody users

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what happens when they look over a ledge

final raven
regal pier
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u could do raycasting/floor detection and make sure they dont walk off of it

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but that might be annoying or cheating if you are moving

oak pendant
regal pier
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but yea i would 100% like some way to offset my avatars viewpoints

oak pendant
regal pier
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because i have elbow trackers and whatnot, and if its even slightly off, it will mess up how accurate my elbow placement is

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in live im pretty sure the elbow reaches up into the sky and spins around a bit

final raven
oak pendant
regal pier
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it is also near impossible to tweak the viewpoint

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because everyone has different HMDs or even play on PC, and also you cant tell if its right until you get in VR

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so the viewpoint exists as a variable value

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and what works for one person might not work for another

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so being able to adjust the viewpoint to compensate would help with aligning the body to the avatar

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for example, on a majority of public avatars, my real arms are behind the avatars arms

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this means if i move my viewpoint forward, it would properly align my arms, allowing for the elbows to work as intended with no offsets

oak pendant
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Yeah front-back shoulder alignment is a pretty important thing

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I don't recall a canny for dynamic viewpoint calibration / setting. Though might be one from pre-ik2 times

regal pier
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another feature that would be for a different channel would be a way to simulate someones body in the SDK

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showing the grey tracking balls

oak pendant
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would be worth getting on Canny and seeing what support looks like for it

regal pier
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this would let you easily adjust the viewpoint in the editor SDK

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and see how everything aligns

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and can change the debug mode to account for different height or ik settings

regal pier
oak pendant
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Ah cool thanks

regal pier
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could also perhaps use another system

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where instead of manual IK adjustment you can enable automatic alignment

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where u stand in a tpose and vrchat will align the viewpoint as accurately as it can to match feet to feet, hands to hands

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of course it would automatically disable if things are too far apart (incompatible avatar)

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but it would make life way easier

oak pendant
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Yeah, it's most likely if dynamic changing of the viewpoint were to be a thing, it would fit in with the current paradigm of calibrating and locking in in some way

regal pier
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yea that would be the other benefit

oak pendant
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This could be a change to the legacy calibrate mode

regal pier
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vrchat would auto adjust those avatars as well

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because that way you wouldnt have to recalibrate at all when changing avatars

final raven
oak pendant
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though changing that would make it less legacy, and I'm not really a fan of having -legacy-legacy-calibrate

regal pier
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it will do auto alignment and then calibrate based on that

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so if you have an avatar with the viewpoint far ahead and switch into it with auto alignment

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it will move it based on the original calibration to fit by keeping track of where it was relative to you

oak pendant
regal pier
oak pendant
final raven
oak pendant
oak pendant
final raven
regal pier
regal pier
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and it will plop the avatar there, take the calibrated pose you did

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adjust the avatars viewpoint

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calibrate, then it should work fine on your body with the current pose

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it doesnt really matter where the calibrated pose is placed

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because what needs to happen is the viewpoint is adjusted, then the offsets are calibrated

oak pendant
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It would then just shift importance from setting the viewpoint to importance of having the avatar root in a good spot though, still meaning Unity/model setup is the defining factor

regal pier
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as long as the avatar gets aligned to the calibrated pose like it normally does in the client

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well no because it wouldnt matter where you put the root or the viewpoint

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it would just adjust it anyway

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the only thing that might have to stay is the viewpoint's height

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the distance forwards wont matter anymore basically

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nor the z position of the root

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even if the armature is moved to like

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<0,0,1000>

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it would still align the entire armature/viewpoint

oak pendant
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There are various ways* to reposition it but it has to be relative to something, it could be the defined hitbox yeah, but any of those will be defined in Unity

regal pier
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yea but you would be looking at the humanoid mapped bones

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same way you determine avatar wingspan

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determining the position of the hands of the avatar

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and then adjusting the Z until they align

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it would of course require that you t-pose or a-pose

oak pendant
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ok so aligning avatar hand bones in tpose relative to predicted hand position based on your HMD position (or actual position if we really force people to put arms out for all types of calibration)

regal pier
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it would be an option

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not requirement

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i have to do it anyway cuz i have elbows

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you can also just put your arms to your side

oak pendant
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I think a more concrete way though is still to leverage the immobile type calibration (legacy) so that there's not auto alignment and the absolute relative position at* binding time can be used

regal pier
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that would work but again the issue of switching avatars

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if the avatar you switch into is misaligned it will ruin everything

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with auto alignment it would align to the calibration pose when you clicked your triggers

oak pendant
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Yeah, it would cause issues for calibration saving

regal pier
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and then update to the new pose of your trackers

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basically its calibrating to a fake you

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as if you went into a tpose

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by keeping a snapshot of your pose

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and that way you can align any avatar

oak pendant
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Some automatic judgement based on your predicted IRL body and the supplied humanoid rig on the avatar isn't impossible

regal pier
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is there no way to just take a snapshot when you calibrate of your body pose

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and calibrate the avatar to that before then moving it to use the real targets

oak pendant
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That's somewhat how calibration saving is working now, but the position of the newly loaded avatar has to be set in some way

regal pier
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you would just set it as normal like you do right now

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and set the calibrated pose in the same place

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and then align and calibrate avatar

oak pendant
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But yeah, it's not impossible to automatically guess a viewpoint z value based on the loaded avatar's rig

oak pendant
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Not saying it's impossible, just saying decisions need to be made for how to handle beyond just "align"

regal pier
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need to align both hands to the Z of the calibrated hands

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an average of the Z

oak pendant
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Yeah that could work

regal pier
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so if you calibrate using a tpose

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it would shift rhe avatar so the hands are aligned

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could use the feet if its more accurate

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depends on their pose and trackers

oak pendant
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As long as you stand in a real TPose when you calibrate (users without arm trackers might not be doing this)

regal pier
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well yes and no

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you can have them to the side or a-pose

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as long as the Z is what it should be

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the X and Y shouldnt matter

oak pendant
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yeah for sure, if the z value is all that matters. More specifically users would need to be aware of hand position during calibration

regal pier
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which is why it would be optional

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on the plus side it makes calibraiton saving way more robust

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so it might be worth the extra second or so to never calibrate again

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it would even make elbows on basicallly any avatar work

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as the elbows and hands would align automatically now

oak pendant
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Yeah, these are some ways to handle it. I think the deeper issue that people want more ways to dynamically wear a previously uploaded avatar is the heart of this issue

regal pier
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sure, but the alignment could be limited to only be a small adjustment

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like 4 inches or something either direction

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relative to avatar scale of course

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cu on some avatars, if their arms are so far back

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might not be worth the adjusment if it means your viewpoint is behind your head

oak pendant
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Most likely limiting to zero forward offset (rather than going behind head pivot) would be needed to prevent strange behavior

regal pier
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debatable

oak pendant
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I've got to step away for a bit to get something to eat 😅 but feel free to add thoughts on this to the Canny for dynamic viewpoint alignment that you mentioned

regal pier
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but yea that was my idea

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i added another canny post since that one was for manual adjustment

oak pendant
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Cool, I moved it over to IK2.0 Canny just so I can keep better track of it (feature request was also a valid place for it, just I'm more likely to keep tabs on stuff in IK2.0)

regal pier
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i don’t really like the canny system, i prefer the one roblox uses with tagging

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then tou can put it in a category and just tag it with ik2 or inversely feature-request

oak pendant
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Hmm yeah we have tags available, though looks like that's only admin assignable

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anyway, I'm gonna be afk eating for a bit 🍴

regal pier
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im eating rn just multi tasking

normal mountain
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Ahhh excellent, elbow fix. I’ll hop on this new beta tonight, thanks Kung!

regal pier
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i wish the shoulders were more responsive when using elbow trackers

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and also that the hands rotated from the right place

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currently if i hold out my hand and flip my wrist up and down

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it will actually move my hand which isnt supposed to happen of course

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it should just rotate the hand

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repro with valve index controller and vive tracker on elbow to see the elbow/hand moving

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probably just needs a minor hand pivot adjustment on index so that it's at the wrist as opposed to lower palm area

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although i am not sure if this is affected at all by hand size. i would imagine not a lot / significantly

digital grove
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Did you try in the beta

devout current
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can't wait to test out these changes later today :p

icy ferry
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Haven't had a chance to test yet are people finding the beta changes good?? I've seen people mention a few bugs still but has leaning over tables and stuff been easier and without too much freezing?? And have elbows stopped switching positions rapidly for the most part or had any adjustments that seem better in regards to position prediction in 3 and 6 pt??

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I'll definitely test when I can but I'm curious on what people's positive opinions are

calm torrent
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Going back to the wall freeze topic - I still have no idea why is it even necessary or what goals it achieves.
So far I can sum it up as this:
Wall freeze cons:

  • Not immersive - your avatar suddenly ignoring your movement is bad (new hip thing helps a bit with this, but not fully)
  • People can playspace move their viewpoint anywhere, and nobody will be able to see any indication of that - no avatar, no nameplate, no selection capsule. What's privacy?
    Wall freeze pros:
  • Uhh... "Immersion" of not clipping into walls? Not a real pro, because people who care about this side of immersion can just, you know, not clip into walls. It requires deliberate effort with playspace mover, after all.
  • Uhh... Something about pickups and game world cheats?
  • Uhh... That's it?
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͏

What I would suggest:

  • Completely remove avatar wall freeze. This way other users can easily tell where this users' viewpoint is (so easy to know if someone is in the room with you), and there's no immersion-breaking freezing. Additionally, it would make game world cheating of a specific kind (gathering information through walls, i.e. amogus) blatantly obvious. On top of that, udon would be able to detect this by getting head position, which would actually be inside wall with this change.
  • Always move nameplate and selection capsule to avatar head (not avatar root/player root). This solves being unable to select the player who clips into somewhere. Additionally, it also solves selecting players who playspace move up/down through floors - right now it can be highly confusing as to why there's an unselectable player
  • For pickups, keep grab origin points frozen as usual. This should solve potential game world cheating issues while not interfering with the rest of not-freezing-peoples-virtual-bodies.
  • Keep actual avatar root frozen as it currently is - proposed solution is not actually noclip after all.
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͏

Potential drawbacks of the new thing that I can see:

  • Different kind of game world cheating (hiding avatar inside walls, but hey, people can just make invisible avatars anyway) - worlds affected by this can easily implement an "anti-cheat" by checking head position vs avatar root position
  • Mild user confusion about locomotion "not working" (because their player root is elsewhere actually) or pickups "not working" (because grabby points are frozen elsewhere) - but most people are smart enough to figure out this peculiarity of playspace mover use. It is hard to accidentally get into a bad state without extensive playspace move use. A tiny icon can be added to the HUD to indicate that the player is "inside wall" and some things would not work normally, like locomotion and pickups if this is a concern.

At the end of the day, VRChat is primarily a social platform, not Boneworks or Alyx - being less restrictive about walls seems like a way more reasonable choice here. If some worlds desire it, they can implement custom head-in-wall logic with udon.

marsh elm
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jesus christ 😄

calm torrent
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Yes, more text > less text, I'm not a huge fan of half-solution like what we got for wall freeze

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I can also throw that into a canny post if Kung desires, just want to see what he thinks on this before it gets lost there

icy ferry
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As far as I know, it's less about wall freeze and more about not freezing just becaused you backed into a collider like a table or chair. I think it likely requires some adjusting too for some of the reasons you suggest, of course, but that's important to note too.

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It's a decent start for what it is

devout current
calm torrent
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Should I ping him so it doesn't get lost?

icy ferry
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Most people were just upset because they couldn't reach over tables. Or because they'd be sitting, back into a bar, and then freeze and not be able to move until they moved forward.

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Nah no ping necessary!! Kung reads most if not all of this, especially detailed posts like that

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Detailed posts are definitely what helps the most so they're given a lot of attention

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You could also make a post in the canny if you want to be certain it's seen.

devout current
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Yup, even if he is asleep, he will defiantly go back and read it ^^

calm torrent
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There's already a canny post for wall freeze, and many points that I made were also made there IIRC

icy ferry
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definitely not a big deal to address it again, especially if you're still having issues with the beta update.

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you can also comment on that post and it'll get updated

calm torrent
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(funny how "in progress" got slapped on the 10-upvote duplicate, whereas the 150+-upvote original was ignored)

icy ferry
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kung tracks the ik 2.0 section pretty well

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did the posts possibly get merged?? it also could have just been convenience. either way as long as it's getting addressed it's okay whichever one got marked

devout current
icy ferry
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agreed. and if it's considered too much like the original, it'd just get merged anyways. not a big deal at all and it's good to have extra detailed feedback in a place where kung can easily access it and find it.

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i know kung sometimes even asks that some stuff gets put into a canny even if it's been talked about here

calm torrent
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Yeah, I'm aware. For now I added this to the original 160 upvote post as a comment, if Kung feels it needs a new post - I can do that too, but eh, we already have people voting for "no wall freeze", not "less wall freeze sometimes if you're lucky"

maiden rock
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As long as it means I can look over the balcony to see who is below whilst at Rizumu Club, it's a nice update, the problem is I don't see why it takes priority over knahs other issues raised 👀

icy ferry
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yeah i think the main concern for kung is still about world breaking exploits with no wall freeze but i definitely agree that it could be helpful to freeze grab origin points. and i definitely agree there's issues with privacy. it's extremely easy to just dip in and do or see whatever when nobody can see what you're doing. and i don't think most people are worried about immersion aside from a select few.

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freezing or not, it doesn't really make much of a difference in regards to a lot of things. obviously people aren't using their thumbsticks to walk through walls, it's playspace moving and regular tracking so it's still easy to look through walls, whether or not your avatar is visibly moving through it.

maiden rock
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Surprised we've not had any further remarks about the lock both issues

calm torrent
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In my opinion "oh no game worlds broken by some avatar behavior" is the least concern here - people can make invisible avatars, flying avatars, wallhacky avatars, and who knows what else regardless. Pickups is one good point, but also solvable independently of how avatar IK behaves.

icy ferry
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i agree completely. there's so many ways to exploit it that it seems like it's not really fixing anything.

digital grove
calm torrent
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Not to mention that right now a world has no idea that you head is in a wall (unless they do the VR camera trick, which is... ehh). With no wall freeze, a world could easily re-implement the HL:A orange nothingness, for example, or move your root away from wall like Boneworks, giving world makers more freedom while not restricting people in purely social worlds

icy ferry
maiden rock
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This is the thing, what does well enough mean

icy ferry
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yeah i don't know. lock all isn't really intended for 6 pt so i'm not sure what sort of rig works. i know it has a lot to do with spine proportions but at the end of the day it seems primarily intended for chest tracking at this point.

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i wish i knew more but i don't but if anybody has any input on it i'd be happy to hear cause i do enjoy knowing more about this stuff

maiden rock
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Knah has covered this fairly well on canny

icy ferry
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i'll have to check it out thank you!!

maiden rock
icy ferry
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thank you i appreciate it!! i only use 6 pt so it doesn't really affect me as much as my main issues are addressed by the other options available, so i'm always curious how it's causing problems for others and what all the current options for them are.

maiden rock
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It's frustrating when you don't know if the issues is your rigging or the IK, and then there's no information or examples of what the rigging should be

lofty lily
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locking both would be perfect for me if it actually bent the spine correctly. as 6pt user I would like hips AND head to be both where my trackers are, but it breaking my neck is cursed and shouldn't happen like that.
I hope they will make a good custom spine solver eventually...

maiden rock
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Even Alease's IK2.0 avatar rig on gumroad(?) is still a best guess

icy ferry
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yeah i can definitely understand that. it'd be nice to have some more clarification on stuff and then simplified a bit if possible.

lofty lily
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you shouldn't need a very specific rig for the IK to work correctly.

icy ferry
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yeah it'd be nice to see examples. maybe even possibly a free rigged prefab so people can get an idea of it from all angles.

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i mean it's not about getting the entirety of the ik to work correctly at least, but the lock all option is definitely something that requires a bit more specificity to the rig it seems.

lofty lily
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as long as the proportions roughly match your RL body the avatar should work well. if they don't, either your feet or your arms will be misaligned with the avatar. But the spine shouldn't be influenced much by proportioning at all really

icy ferry
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i don't expect avatars with extremely outdated rigs (for example, using rig hacks) to work or anything, but it seems like a basic, well proportioned rig should be able to get the job done for the most part. i know it's a complicated system but hopefully stuff can be adjusted and worked on with time so the big issues are worked out.

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i'm hoping we can get more examples of what works and/or things can be hammered out a bit more.

maiden rock
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I've tried really hard to get my avatar's bones really close to my own, bar getting x-rays taken! 👀
Accounting for the simpler bone topology compared to a real skeleton

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But even close enough should be good enough

lofty lily
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I didn't go that far, but I did measure myself IRL and converted all the various measurements (arm length, shoulder height, etc.) into avatar proporions.

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this results in my avatar following my real life body perfectly 1:1

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except for when IK breaks e.g. my neck...

maiden rock
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Eyes slightly lower than irl due to anime proportions, but the irl pupil eye height position is where the descriptor goes

#

The hip and head bone roots are the same position along the z axis (forward/back)

#

I'm fairly confident that I've done enough on the rig for it to be a good contender for lock both mode working, but without guidelines, who's to say

calm torrent
#

I believe that's about as good as you can do for IK2 - all the important parts (straight spine, proportional bones) are there, though a bit of fine tuning might help, namely, moving hip origin down (not that it matters much for hip anyway), and maaaybe moving both spine and lower chest a bit down too - origins of spine and (lower) chest should be approximately where spine meets hip bone and lower ribs, respectively.

devout current
#

Btw I think the neck issue is something Kung wanted to fix after IK 2.0 came out. Idk why that hasn't happened yet, I suppose other things were marked as more important.

lofty lily
#

it is marked as "Tracked Internally", but I suppose we'll have to see when they get to it....

calm torrent
#

As for the general "lock both" scuffedness - it's a hard problem, specifically simulating the real 24-bone spine with just 4 unity bones, so some trade-offs would need to be made. Currently "lock both" gives you extreme gamer neck, but "lock head" is extremely afraid of bending anything, and there's nothing inbetween.
I could imagine that Kung tried bending spine more for "lock both" and saw some avatars look rather ugly because of bad spine rigs or weight paints - as commonly seen on booth models that were largely optimized for legacy IK that only bent hip-spine joint and nothing else.
A random idea I had for this thing is allowing a small user-configurable amount of rotational drift for the hip in lock both, as that helps quite a bit to produce smoother spine bends and absorb more length difference into into spine without having to murder the neck.

maiden rock
#

So the short version is it's scuffed because of avatar precedent

calm torrent
#

It might be the case, though I'm obviously not Kung and I don't know exactly what went into decisions about which trade-off to take

devout current
#

Btw is there anyone else works on IK 2.0 besides Kung?

#

And who was responsible for IK before Kung started working on IK 2.0

maiden rock
devout current
#

Lmao

oak pendant
#

Yo, just dropping in to reply to some stuff, DrBlackRat is right, I do read it all 😁. @calm torrent thanks for all those detailed points about tracker freezing. The reason this update is fixing lean-over-table issue and not totally unfreezing everything is because that's a larger UX thing that would need more extended team discussion. Anything that touches how avatars and worlds as whole interact and in general is a big change to how things have worked before has a longer chain of approval to go through. Whereas, "functions the same but fixes X issue" type things are quicker to get in. For what it's worth I think all the points you brought up are very valid and will help us with internal discussion on this.

#

As for why elbows first before lock-all spine behavior, I actually started working on lock-all because I'm less satisfied with that, but elbows affect a larger swath of users, so priority was shifted there. So that's what's in this small beta. I'm still keenly aware of the issues and plan to improve stuff. There's also the issue of avatars that were rigged with stronger angles between the spine and chest bones that people want to be reflected in the solved ik, so that's something also in consideration as I work on further spine improvements. Mostly it was just prioritized based on what seemed to be the more immediate concern for the larger number of users

calm torrent
#

Understandable, I suppose. I could offer extra talking points for the greater discussion (playspace moving up/down doesn't freeze you when you hit floor/ceiling - why are walls special?), I suppose. Current fix helps with bending over something, but seems like it would still be ineffective for larger movements, like crawling on top of a table (tall enough that auto-footstep doesn't move you up) and the like, where your hip eventually moves "into" the collider (disclaimer: I didn't check it in-game yet)

oak pendant
maiden rock
#

I think what's been difficult as someone in a position to change my avatar to suit the demands of the IK, is in attempting to meet it at least half way but not knowing where to go

oak pendant
calm torrent
#

Okay, as long as the larger issue of dealing with freezing is kept in mind, I won't complain too much here

#

The ideas for movement you mentioned earlier here also sound interesting, and sorta tie in with this to a degree

#

So purely on paper if we got a smarter movement system that enabled "crawl over a table" in a way that just moved the player correctly, the freeze issue would be largely mitigated too - though again, I'm leaning towards being less restrictive here anyway

oak pendant
marsh elm
#

Oh hell yea stretchy bones

calm torrent
oak pendant
calm torrent
#

allow stretching probably at the "spine" bone
Do I need to find that L stretchy catgirl gif from when legacy IK would stretch the spine? I doubt anything with stretching would end up being good, as that requires even more considerations from avatar makers to account for yet another possible movement

timber grove
#

I kind of want to see Kung implement almost every feature that a non-mentionable program has into VRChat just to mess with the modders 😄

oak pendant
#

So there are tons of tools to arbitrarily trigger a spacekey press, could even be voice activated etc

calm torrent
marsh elm
calm torrent
calm torrent
oak pendant
timber grove
#

Can confirm stretchiness when I used the Kinect back in the legacy IK days

marsh elm
#

Lol slinky kinect with stretchy spine sounds hilarious

timber grove
#

boing boing boing

calm torrent
#

I'm obviously no expert here, but I don't expect being able to network more things would offer much help to improve IK - sure, you could move bones on top of rotating them, but the big question here is how ready avatars are for this - networking cursed-looking stretches to other people, which is how bone movement usually looks like, doesn't sound like an improvement. Then again, most of my thinking has been confined to "rotations only" mode, so I could've easily missed an opportunity somewhere

oak pendant
maiden rock
#

Did I mention local IK smoothing for vtubers/dancers recording

#

rummages through notes

#

At least Neos does it with a slider to set local interpolation amount for the hips and feet

oak pendant
calm torrent
oak pendant
#

I think having a UI toggle for legacy calibrate mode would mostly solve the issue you're getting at there though

calm torrent
oak pendant
maiden rock
#

I think IDA still like Neos for dance battles for that reason, their quick fire moves don't cause them to shake so much about the place, with a little applied local smoothing

digital grove
calm torrent
devout current
calm torrent
dusk anvil
#

let's GOOOO leaning over tables

oak pendant
digital grove
#

my guess on the secret project is official eye/face tracking

timber grove
#

😮

#

😄

devout current
dusk anvil
#

me waiting for ui 2.0

timber grove
#

😜

dusk anvil
#

(i am waiting very patiently)

devout current
calm torrent
maiden rock
oak pendant
calm torrent
maiden rock
#

I do like solving scaling/calibration issues inside VR, feels more true to the platform

oak pendant
#

Yeah drag to reposition has been a long requested feature in calibration, I even requested it before I was hired haha 😅

calm torrent
#

Speaking of scaling, can we have shoulder offsets (shoulder-above-chest-something) be expressed not in global space, but in avatar-root-scale-space? That's seemingly the only thing in IK2 that misbehaves with scale (and, well, repositioning trackers if one turns off), and when VRC eventually gets neos-like arbitrary avatar scaling (eventually), it can be ready for that

devout current
#

I really want Avatar scaling to come back, I could delete 4/5 of my Avatars then

dusk anvil
#

have avatar scaling be an option

oak pendant
calm torrent
oak pendant
devout current
#

xD

calm torrent
devout current
calm torrent
#

Maybe not the best-best, but the easier-and-good-enough for sure. And yes, not IK2 related (unless Kung makes arbitrary avatars scaling an IK2 feature).

#

Speaking of "probably not IK2", I can only assume that av3 parameter sync is not something you work on either (in relation to "IK sync" too)?

maiden rock
#

This feels like some productive chat, if there's anything covered here that's missing from canny, slap us

oak pendant
#

I mean... yeah you know I have to say it, if the only issue is that it breaks in a mod, that's not something we support. But if this is causing issues with the normal operation of VRChat then I can look into addressing it.

#

So I'd say look for a repro case in a normally operating avatar, if there is one post it in that canny and I can take a look on that avatar

calm torrent
#

What if it breaks with some eccentric setup with steamvr plugin but no mods? Is that still in scope?

oak pendant
#

Not really, eccentric SteamVR setups are in the "it would be nice" kind of range but if such a setup causes something to break we'd blame the setup rather than VRC

#

In general if a repro case can be provided that isn't in the range of "totally break your setup" then I can look into it

calm torrent
#

Eh, okay, unless people find a repro purely with clone system stuff (that I'm not aware of) then it's likely out of scope for now

oak pendant
#

Not to say that if a simple change would make rare SteamVR setups work better that it's something that I wouldn't consider. But it would be at the bottom of the priority stack.

calm torrent
#

It would be more alongside the lines of "use this steamvr plugin to make that avatar feature work until VRC implements support for this on their side"

#

But I understand that solving issues with such setups is not a priority at all

oak pendant
#

Yeah I think that's in very low priority range then. If it were, like "here's an avatar that just breaks and it's normal AV3 features on a normal VR setup" would bump up the priority a lot.

vagrant vector
#

Already hard enough to get everything working well with default settings

calm torrent
#

Actually, I think there is a repro case for that with a chair of all things, I'll test and comment on canny of I manage to make it break like that

#

(don't we all love chairs?)

vast tangle
#

Ik2 did break scaling avatars with animations as it doesnt let you move the viewpoint

oak pendant
oak pendant
calm torrent
vast tangle
#

What is pose space

calm torrent
#

It feels bad in VR regardless without playspace scaling, but I don't think it changed compared to legacy IK

vast tangle
#

I probably know what it is but not what its called

vast tangle
#

For things like an avatar scale slider

devout current
#

You could never animate the Avatar Descriptor, if I'm not wrong

calm torrent
#

I've seen avatars with old gogoloco scaling thing that uses pose space, and those seem to "work" in 3-point

oak pendant
#

Also about mirrors and overall dynamic avatar scaling etc... In general if stuff is like "this changes how IK moves" I can speak pretty directly about it, but if it's "this changes VRC as a platform" most I can do is say "yeah team would need to talk a lot about those kinds of things, most I can recommend is that you share your thoughts on Canny"

devout current
#

Is it possible for you to bring those things to the teams attention?

vast tangle
#

Kung is just a lone wolf dev

calm torrent
#

Well, you're kinda the representative of the part of the community that wants better IK though, so I feel like advocating your use cases to the team is something people would love for you to do

dusk anvil
#

everyone knows kung is mr vrchat himself

devout current
#

Praise the Kung!

#

xD

oak pendant
#

I can say that when discussion comes up internally, we link right to those Canny posts. But also that a lot of this stuff is things that people are aware of already internally too.

vagrant vector
#

If we're talking about IK, was there any reason to stay on FIK 1.9 instead of updating to 2.0/2.1?

vast tangle
#

No

calm torrent
#

Canny is well-known for being largely ignored, unfortunately, with open beta and IK2 boards probably being one of the better-handled ones

vast tangle
#

iTs A fEaTuRe

calm torrent
#

Oh, is the rest of FinalIK also in your area of responsibility?

oak pendant
calm torrent
#

Mind if I DM you?

vagrant vector
#

If you want to hear about it I can write the most detailed canny you've ever seen

devout current
dusk anvil
oak pendant
# calm torrent Canny is well-known for being largely ignored, unfortunately, with open beta and...

Even the old Canny posts are right there linked in our internal discussion handling. Of course people would always like things to move faster, and so things that haven't had outward facing discussion in a long time might appear ignored, but I can say that if you want any comments on a feature there "at the table" during our internal discussion. Getting it in the relevant Canny is the very best way.

vagrant vector
oak pendant
# calm torrent Mind if I DM you?

Personally I wouldn't mind (actually I'd enjoy it!), but it's unfortunate that people might get weird about us hanging out in DMs for I think obvious reasons. It sucks because I think I'd really enjoy a good conversation with you, but drama is dramatic, you know? 😖

#

If you have a FinalIK-on-avatar issue that could be shared here or on Canny I'd be interested of course.

calm torrent
#

I'd say that a bit of purely business talk wouldn't hurt anyone here, would it? The second best I can offer is the "contact us" form on VRC website, but I believe someone already used it to send in the issue I have, and not much happened after that as far as I can tell

oak pendant
#

Hmm, I can ask about that and try to see if someone should have passed it along to me

#

Is there something you can say here that I can ask our support people internally if such a message came through? Also about how long ago?

calm torrent
#

Oh well, I guess I could send another one and then use alternative channels to make sure it reaches you. It probably was quite a while ago, long enough that I can't give any specific timeframe there - not to mention that I was not the one who would've sent it.

oak pendant
#

Yeah, I think that sounds like it would work.

maiden rock
#

Knah and Kung having a DM conversation would actually be quite reassuring

#

To hell with the haters

calm torrent
#

I'm all for cooperation and idea exchange here, even if there's some points we don't agree on ¯_(ツ)_/¯

maiden rock
#

If anyone has a problem with it they can talk to me vrpill

devout current
#

I want that to happen

calm torrent
#

Then again, most of it can be done publicly anyway with liberal application of ||[redacted]||, so it's not too big of a concern

devout current
#

I assume Kung knows what you mean with [redacted]

calm torrent
#

At this point I suspect almost everyone does, but I don't make the rules here. Either way, it's mostly offtopic

devout current
#

I mean I know but idk if Kung does, but that shouldn't be that important for the discussions I assume

harsh lagoon
#

i was reading the discussion today, heck pls giv avatar scaling in game thank u

#

otherwise, ye the fix for hand on shoulder thing seems to be working well for me, definitely better than before, and i cant really tell anything changed on the part where we're supposed to be able to do some basic shrugging, but thats alright, i'm quite happy

acoustic python
#

Soo.. first i wanna thank kung for being open and reading all of this, second thank knah for basically stating my opinion regarding wall freezing :D

#

At first when i saw the announcement i was skeptical, but after having tried it today, i must say it already feels a lot better than it used to, so its definitely going into a good direction

#

Knahs points still stand, and basically all my opinions regarding the freezing are mentioned in the cannys 👍

#

Looking forward to future updates on this :3

jovial shadow
#

The new IK beta is gold, i love the freezing buffer zone for colliders and the ability to lean finally over the edge of a table or anything else with a collider

#

the elbows also seem calmer now and don't freak out as much anymore

devout current
#

Since wall freezing has been put on the hip instead of the head now, how feasible would it be to do the same for our "movement point"?

#

I love being able to lean over tables etc. but leaning over small objects still causes you to climb up / down. This is now inconsistend compared to your "wallfreeze point".

#

I would love if the point on which we collide with the floor etc. could also be moved to the hip, at least in FBT. This would make it more consistent with the collision check for wall freeze which is now on the hip.

lethal light
devout current
#

Yeah ik, I hope that it can be done though, would be quiet nice, especially in FBT

#

It would allow us to lean over edges and small bumps etc.

maiden rock
#

yeah

#

peering over cliffs

#

shouldn't drop you off it

maiden rock
robust tangle
#

Be aware that the only way to do smoothing is to blend it with either past or future data, which will always incur a visual delay either way

maiden rock
#

should still be good for streaming

oak pendant
# 
IK-Beta build 12055
## Improvements
- It should now be less likely for your elbow to snap towards pointing back when reaching your arm across the front of your body and putting your hand behind your opposite shoulder.
oak pendant
devout current
oak pendant
#

Avatars with shoulders waaaay lower than IRL might still have issues, but this patch should reduce the occurrence

timber grove
#

Very nice!

#

God damn this has to be the year of the VRChat. Physbones, OSC, and now the new IK. Can't wait for what's to come in the future!

devout current
#

Later on we will also get the new UI :p

timber grove
#

😄

#

Did the quick menu UI come out in 2021?

devout current
#

yup

timber grove
#

I see

devout current
#

UI 2.0 should come relatively soon

#

A few other things will come before it though if I remember correctly

timber grove
#

Like what? Or did they slip your mind?

oak pendant
timber grove
#

Hey kung quick question.

#

I don't know if you have any experience with full body tracking hardware (sarcasm), but if you do, what would you say would be the best option for tracking elbows/chest/knees?

#

I may end up getting 3 or 4 more trackers eventually.

oak pendant
#

Just my personal opinion, but the tundra trackers if you can find them when stock is available . For all of those points their light weight is more important than the very slight occlusion resistance difference that other larger trackers might have just due to sheer size difference.

#

the beltloop style swap out back-plate option is really nice for mounting stuff really near the body if you make DIY straps too

#

If you can mount it closer it flops less

timber grove
#

I have an extra full set of trackstraps before I got my trackstrap pluses so mounting won't be an issue here 😄

oak pendant
#

Ah yeah, for those you'd use the bolt mount so the back plate difference wouldn't matter then

timber grove
#

I am considering the 3.0's and the tundras. Thanks for your information, I'll keep it in mind.

oak pendant
#

Either of those are great options. I wouldn't recommend HTC 2.0 unless you have an external battery for them.

timber grove
#

Should have gotten the 3.0's now that I think about it...

#

But I did want to save a little money before diving full into the world of high end FBT

oak pendant
#

If you're not doing really long sessions then I don't think there's much difference

timber grove
#

Yeah, I just don't like having to charge them every 2 sessions.

#

thankfully the pluses solve that.

oak pendant
#

Ah yeah if you have track strap pluses then nothing to worry about for battery life

primal palm
#

(I had Vive 2.0s before without the same issues)

timber grove
#

It seems the tundras prefer to see more cause they are smaller in size.

primal palm
#

Would make sense, harder to triangulate with less distance between the data points. 🤷‍♂️
Probably over-simplifying how the lighthouse tracking works though.

timber grove
#

Closer together sensors on the tracker device won't be as accurate as further away sensors, like the 3.0 vives.

oak pendant
timber grove
#

This is why I am heavily thinking whether the tundras will be good considering I have 2 1.0 base stations.

primal palm
#

Ah... yeah that's a hard one.

timber grove
#

Should have gotten 2.0 base stations WHEN THEY WERE IN STOCK AAAAUUUGGGHHH

oak pendant
#

But yeah occlusion is the big thing with lighthouse in general. But fwiw I'm using 11pt with tundras with 2x 1.0 base stations

timber grove
primal palm
#

huh

timber grove
#

No 2.0's? Specific reason as to why?

#

base station noise? Reeeeeeeee

primal palm
#

Do you find your waist shifts to the side if you rotate 90-180 degrees? 👀

oak pendant
#

Addicted to wireless adapter, and never jumped on the vive pro. It's kind of sunk cost fallacy at this point, but it's kind of "I waited this long for the next wireless lighthouse HMD, if I wait just a bit longer..."

#

I'm still on og vive

primal palm
#

hoh

#

I caved and started using a Quest 2 with Space Calibrator.

timber grove
#

I'm on a Rift S, lmao

#

Still works great after 2+ years.

primal palm
#

lucky one. xD

timber grove
#

Yeah, haha

#

I don't plan to upgrade until a huge new hmd gets released, or my current one dies.

devout current
#

I want the Deckard to finally come out

oak pendant
timber grove
#

Is there a reason you don't use the Index?

primal palm
#

You use wands too? 👀

oak pendant
timber grove
#

ah

primal palm
#

Can't imagine there would be a HMD specific issue that bad?

#

Controllers though. 😅

devout current
oak pendant
devout current
#

Oh god I don't want to hear your mic quality in VRChat then Kung xD

timber grove
#

Anyone who uses vive wands, unless they play gun games, needs help.

oak pendant
timber grove
#

sponsor time

devout current
#

Ahhh then it's fine xD

oak pendant
devout current
oak pendant
devout current
#

I hot glued a USB mic to my og Vive back when I had one xD

oak pendant
#

I've just gone too long on wireless now, really hard to go back to anything that requires a wire

devout current
#

Yeah wireless is really cool

#

I liked that about it

primal palm
oak pendant
devout current
#

I heard the Index 2 aka Deckard will also have a wireless mode. And it actually should come pretty soon. There was a massive leak a few days ago.

primal palm
oak pendant
#

Oh yeah that would be a good way

primal palm
#

Actually could just leave the base stations spinning while looking. 🤔

devout current
#

I feel like the Quest 2 can handle reflections better than SteamVR tracking tbh

primal palm
#

Oh yeah by far.

oak pendant
#

Haha, what an age we live in... 2020s problems... Using AR passthrough to detect rogue laser reflections for your tracking device. Just tell that to someone in the 90s

devout current
#

lmao

#

Btw Kung, are you still planning to improve the support for more harsh spine angles etc in the future?

timber grove
#

breaks spine to test

#

"yeah looks good thanks kung"

devout current
#

Not your spine irl, but the spine on your Avatar

#

currently the IK just straightens it out

oak pendant
#

@devout current means in the rest pose I think. That's still something I'd like to get to. Usually I avoid directly saying I'm "planning" on things unless I'm actually at least part of the way through working on it and am to the point where finding showstopping problems is unlikely. Because for most people "planning" = "you promised"

devout current
#

Yeah that's understandable ^^

oak pendant
#

So digging through that high threshold to say I'm planning, it doesn't mean I'm not when I phrase things like "I'd very much like to get to that"

devout current
#

Yeah it's basically the only issue I personally still have with IK 2.0 :p

oak pendant
#

Yeah a large portion of avatars used by the Japanese community seem affected too.

devout current
#

Yeah I noticed, my canny has like 253 upvotes now and is the top post on IK 2.0 😅

oak pendant
#

Yeah, part of that I think is the twitter effect, but I'm very aware it's something that people want to see a change on

devout current
#

Yeah, it was spread a lot on twitter, which I personally don't like that much. It kinda destroys the impression on what people think it is more important compared to other posts.

timber grove
#

I'm just gonna hide here to avoid general 1 lol.

#

Anyway, I'm really loving the new IK, amazing work Kung.

oak pendant
oak pendant
devout current
timber grove
#

I actually had no clue you put locomotion disable into the game until I saw a random twitter post. Mind blown

devout current
#

I think that was one of the biggest feature request (for IK 2.0)

timber grove
#

Will definitely save a ton of time not having to go into Unity.

oak pendant
timber grove
#

I don't know who else to thank!

#

How bout I thank the entire team then

devout current
timber grove
#

Good point.

maiden rock
#

honestly keeping a 3.0 around for hips is probably still the play

#

rest can be tundra

#

but definitely 3 lighthouses

#

so you get that perpendicular tracking to compensate the other two, which helps for specific situations like standing sideways to the lighthouses and an arm occludes the hip on the other side

timber grove
#

Sadly the 2.0 bases are out of stock almost everywhere ;-;

oak pendant
#

@maiden rock Yeah, that's a really good setup. Hip can be mounted pretty solidly and is at biggest risk of occlusion, so the weight to occlusion difference probably favors a larger tracker there

timber grove
#

2.0 vives: "It's my time to shine"

#

If you mount it right, you hardly notice it's there, even though it's a literal hockey puck

maiden rock
#

just have a second to swap in when it runs out :P

#

i really prefer avoiding battery packs

icy ferry
#

I just have 3 2.0s but I've been considering someday getting some 3.0s. Not anytime soon but eventually.

maiden rock
#

keeping the setup as light weight as possible is really beneficial

icy ferry
#

For my battery packs I actually have really small, lightweight cylindrical battery packs and they don't weigh me down much at all. Don't really notice it.

oak pendant
#

I wonder what it'd take to get a vive cosmos lighthouse tracking faceplate powered and functioning mounted to your hip... you'd probably have to gut part of the cosmos. Would be a really interesting project

maiden rock
#

the ultimate fanny pack

oak pendant
#

Yeah, stick a wireless battery to power a wireless vive pro or something in the belt and cover the outside with the DIY faceplate hack

#

now I really want this

icy ferry
#

Store some candy in there and watch your hip go crazy when you reach inside and grab them

#

Actual fanny pack

maiden rock
#

I think the dream would be to have 2 tundras opposite each other on a belt

#

which can both provide redundancy for a hip

icy ferry
#

Oh that would actually be really cool

maiden rock
#

no idea how that would be made possible though

#

i think valve would need to get involved

oak pendant
#

Yeah redundant hip tracking has been requested often. It's not impossible but there are issues to solve

maiden rock
#

namely which tracker is the source of truth at any time

icy ferry
#

I'd imagine it'd get a little complicated more so than most of the stuff you've already done

oak pendant
#

There's api level stuff on tracking status that could be used, but if it doesn't inform of bad tracking early enough there'd be instability, but yeah it's not an impossible thing

maiden rock
#

for me the next big hardware problem to solve is freeing the palms up towards gloves or something where finger tracking is much more accurate, such as splay

#

in terms of input

#

it would be such a universal improvement

#

(and we can hold our drinks properly)

oak pendant
#

Yeah, the index controllers are great, but the lack of finger spread does kind of stand out

maiden rock
#

but hands flat on the ground for handstands, DJs actually working their hands over the decks

oak pendant
maiden rock
#

gripping the poles etc 👀

oak pendant
#

no comment

maiden rock
#

heh

lethal bridge
maiden rock
#

looks like freddy kruger got himself VR

#

👀

tranquil cipher
#

yeah the open source glove projects are good enough to replace a controller now, since you can put on joystick and buttons

maiden rock
tranquil cipher
lethal bridge
#

honestly though this setup already breaks the new SteamVR device limit Kung added 😅

devout current
lethal bridge
#

I personally abhor the hardware side of Lucidgloves (for daily functional use that is, it's neat hardware don't get me wrong)

tranquil cipher
#

then what are you doing?

oak pendant
lethal bridge
devout current
#

launch options for everything

lethal bridge
oak pendant
#

I see, yeah it would make sense to do a better job of supporting high device counts if I can get to that request for tracker smoothing. It would be a good fit for a project to revamp our handling of steamvr devices. There are a few things falling into that bucket now, including the non GenericTracker devices etc.

#

Don't let me stop you from making DIY workarounds though, because super high device counts are in the niche category that would bump it under more pressing priority issues

lethal bridge
#

Just knowing that someone at VRChat even considers such weird setups is pretty good.

#

If someone told me before Ik2.0 was announced that I'd be able to use my gloves in VRChat without essentially doing a SteamVR ritual I'd have never believed them

maiden rock
#

IK2, group system, steam audio direct binarual htrf, unity 2020 👀 let's finish this year on a high

devout current
#

(you forgot my beloved new UI)

past spruce
#

Unity 2020 upgrade would probably require some sort of content purge...🤔

primal palm
past spruce
#

I doubt that, but yeah, almost all SDK2 content will most likely inevitably disappear.

primal palm
#

A recently updated SDK2 world should still work (assuming they made the Single Pass Instanced change to SDK2 as well), but yeah, most of them haven't been updated, and the creator might not have the files still.

digital grove
#

I think the cheapest ones are around 1000 usd

lethal bridge
digital grove
#

official support would be nice indeed

#

but also a decent price

prisma meadow
#

most, like the manus gloves vrfree, or the lucid gloves work with the steamvr skeletal input system. But because vrc's implementation of this is crazy scuffed they dont work in vrc

#

like you can use them in pavlov, hla, or any other game that has the steamvr skeletal inputs actually working

digital grove
#

damn

marsh elm
#

lol

jovial shadow
#

Hasn't vrchat still one of the first software implementations of finger tracking from steamvr?

mortal lagoon
#

AFAIK they use their own finger tracking solution which was hastily made to support the index controllers when they first came out

marsh elm
#

tsk

#

proper hand tracking wouldn't have been so scuffed if they used good ole skelly input

#

oh my wonderful q2 hand tracking, if only i didn't need an osc package for you...

mortal lagoon
#

Switching to a completely new system while keeping old content working properly, in this case avatars, is a lot of work and I figure VRChat had to prioritize other things

#

If it's anything but perfect the community will crap it's collective pants and rage.

wraith lotus
#

so i finally got into vrchat after the latest IK update releases, and I realize something odd with the locomotion on some avatars i uploaded.
In the video, The first avatar I can move my head freely, even when I walk. But when it comes to the second avatar, the movement of the head is very stiff, as if it can only go 10 degrees up. and when i move. it's almost like it moves along with the body as if it's in PC mode....
some of my avatars does that, some works normally. is this a bug on this update or is there something wrong with every avatars i uploaded?

oak pendant
#

If you're using physbones on the ears or hair, make sure that the head bone itself is not in the hierarchy of affected bones

#

Unfortunately adding it to the ignore list in the physbone script isn't enough. Physbones can't be on humanoid bones.

wraith lotus
#

you know, now that you said that, The first avatar in the video had that issue yesterday. I checked the physbones and realize it wasn't checked "Is Animated". When i check mark them, her head moves normally. idk, might have a connection to the issue based on what you said. I'm gonna check it out.

oak pendant
#

If I remember correctly, setting to isAnimated was a workaround, but I'd reccomend not having humanoid bones as children of physbones

#

If you can get it working with isAnimated again then maybe that's ok, but to be sure to avoid issues you can make an extra bone that serves as the parent of all the physbones, that isn't the head bone

wraith lotus
#

the root transform of the physbone is the head because the children are one bone rigged for the hair

#

just like the first and second avatar

oak pendant
#

Yeah that'd be the cause of this issue. The first avatar may be able to avoid the issue due to isAnimated

#

Making a new bone like "hair_root" or something like that as a child of the head, and then setting all your physbone transforms as children of that bone would prevent the issue without using isAnimated

#

In general though, this is a physbones problem I think

wraith lotus
#

interesting

#

i'll update on the situation soon

wraith lotus
#

so it turns out, it is the "is Animated" option

#

if it's not checked, the head would be stiff. but i remembered it wasn't like that before the IK update.

harsh lagoon
#

oh i guess this is a question i can ask here
Will there ever be a fix/ is there a fix for our avatars necks not being able to look all the way up when we're in certain positions? i notice it when i'm mid crouch, i think just before my crouch animation plays. Is there anything we can do about that? It happens quite a lot

#

I can provide a video if needed (later)

raw wadi
#

Where did people learn to use a humanoid joint for the root of dyna/phys component

final raven
#

Oh yeah @oak pendant forgot to mention but good work on improving the shoulders! Arms don't snap through the head anymore and other poses behave naturally now as well. Haven't noticed any odd behaviours yet. ^^

quasi sable
#

So excited for the next IK beta

#

@oak pendant is my issue in progress yet?

daring tiger
#

can someone tell me why my IK is giving me such an awful experience?
like, it makes me never want to touch the game anymore.

Setting my in-game height to 5ft 7 (my irl height) using height avatar measurement, IK 2.0
bending backwards, my viewpoint moves into my neck and i can see everything.. very awkwardly..

It's solved best by setting FBT lock to all, tho this makes my movements and translates my irl body positions inaccurately.

Setting it to lock head (first option), bending backwards is even worse, and sitting down moves my viewpoint up above my head.
And setting it to loc hip (second option), makes it not as bad as lock head, but worse than lock all, still making my movements and body translation inaccurate and awkward.

Screenshots:
Current fbt settings -https://i.hep.gg/vmjHqZyoF
Bending backwards - https://i.hep.gg/Y99q6bA-g

there seems to be simply no middle ground for a comfortable experience.

jovial shadow
#

If you put your setting on headlock, the viewport should not move at all relative to your avis head

#

Also try wing span as Avatar measure, your avatar might have high heels on or isn't well scaled compared to your irl body dimensions

#

@daring tiger

#

And if headlock isn't locking the head viewport in position with the head, you might want to reinstall vrc

#

Oh and check it with another avatar, incase something is broken on the one you are using

iron hamlet
#

I still have issues getting the (IK2)calibration consistently working for me (6pt-fbt)... 😓

Results are all over the place and I need a bunch of recalibration-attempts each login to "flail" myself toward usable results:
y-axis - bottom of shoes below/above floorlvl (hmd viewpoint related)
z-axis - getting the center of my avi right so I can touch both butt and knees without something clipping into/through the body 🙈

Questions to clarify the process:

  • Do I need to align feet & hip-tracker on my body as good as possible to the avatars bones? (expansive belly, so my hip-tracker usually is waaaay infront my avatars hip-bone, as I can't implant it into my stomach 😛 )

  • Kung mentioned creating a custom t-pose, can anyone point me toward some howto/guide how to do that?

TIA vrcGlowstick

#

semi-off jiggly legs... wasn't willing to keep trying, also about to drop-ded to the floor, meh cardio-system 🤣

#

this looks way better calibration-wise (careful, scuffed audio!)

iron hamlet
#

now... how do I get that result consistently without needing 10+ calibration-attempts each restart of vrc?

gusty ridge
#

can we pin the player collider at the feet instead of the head for fbt users?

#

i wanna be able to lean over pits without falling

loud patio
gusty ridge
#

I know you can lean over tables, but you still get moved up down, when you try to headpat a smaller avatar on a hillside/couch

#

Because the collider moves with the head

#

And player character "steps up"

loud patio
gusty ridge
#

Yes

#

Ill try again

woven gulch
# loud patio I'm pretty sure they moved it to the hip now in the IK beta

The player collider for movement is still on the head at the moment, they just added the ability for the hip collider to lock so you can lean over tables.

But too small tables you’ll clip up and edges you’ll still fall down from peering over because the movement collider is still on head.

Think of it as two colliders for checks but the player capsule is still tracking the head.

gusty ridge
#

I wish player capsule was at the feet

raw wadi
#

but we have 2 feets

final raven
# daring tiger can someone tell me why my IK is giving me such an awful experience? like, it ma...

Setting it to lock head (first option), bending backwards is even worse, and sitting down moves my viewpoint up above my head.
And setting it to loc hip (second option), makes it not as bad as lock head, but worse than lock all, still making my movements and body translation inaccurate and awkward.
Lock Hip is the first option (left), Lock Head is the second (middle), just a correction there. As for the viewpoint moving above your head. It's expected to drift in Lock Hip mode.

daring tiger
daring tiger
final raven
#

For lock all mode, while you're calibrating try looking down about 30 or so degrees and that should help solve any weird angle issues in your spine and/or neck.

devout valley
#

Is it possible to use trackers as your hands while retaining controller input? Like strap a tundra to the back of your hand for dancing, but still be able to pick up the controller and use the button inputs when necessary.

lethal bridge
marsh elm
#

🤔

#

can you use tracking overrides to have a janky tracker-tracked controller?

lethal bridge
#

vrcBotThink I guess

marsh elm
#

you can do that to make q2 controllers lighthouse tracked, and its not like you gotta attach em together if you just want input

lethal bridge
#

now that'd be interesting

marsh elm
#

like this mf, but keep the tracker on the back of your hand

unknown.png
lethal bridge
#

wonder how overrides deal with offsets vrcCatThink

marsh elm
#

you set offsets and rotations in some file up steam's asscrack, havent looked too hard into it

#

was trying to make my q2 lighthouse based and gave up after realizing i didnt care all that much 😆

lethal bridge
#

oh goodness the solution is to flash the tracker with firmware that gives it a position offset

marsh elm
#

lmao

#

backups ahoy

digital grove
#

Too much quest making it boring I almost never watch his videos anymore

marsh elm
#

😒

digital grove
lethal bridge
#

lets not get too far off topic in here :p

marsh elm
#

yeet

robust tangle
#

anyone's right controller stop being able to interact with things until you change bindings and revert again

#

i know me and at least 2 other people seeing it, don't know how widespread

jovial shadow
#

No issues with index controllers

#

Also switching from on pair to another pair while in game works totally fine in both beta and none beta

marsh elm
#

same shit happening to me, i thought i was going nuts

#

i had to go into the ingame bindings and flip, idk, B button to jump then back every so often lol

robust tangle
#

eyup

robust tangle
marsh elm
#

q2

robust tangle
#

ok good

marsh elm
#

not good lol

robust tangle
#

no if it's more than just index, it's good. it'll get fixed

marsh elm
#

i had a video where it happened and i was so confused lool

#

"y u no work"

robust tangle
#

there

marsh elm
#

at about 2:07

#

i wonder why canny asks if i wanna link my vrchat account every dang time i look at a ticket lol

robust tangle
marsh elm
#

nah, it tells me to login, i login, then it asks me if i wanna link canny w/ vrchat, i click yes, then it lets me access it

robust tangle
#

Ah. Well, it's not VRChat's software

#

Probably the same reason they can't fix anyone's canny PFP's

grand lynx
#

So, i brought up before that i was having the bizarre back issues with 11 point and all lock where back would arch. Many told me that it was my avatar proportions being bad. After tons of experimenting with proportions to no avail, i found out it had to do with the placement of my view point. Pushing my viewpoint up by .05 completely fixed it. So viewpoint, a good custom arm length, and correct user height solved this.

VRChat_3840x2160_2022-06-09_19-23-01.527.png
#

just incase others are struggling

loud patio
grand lynx
#

@loud patio

loud patio
grand lynx
#

yes

loud patio
#

Hmm I wonder if it has to do with how high up your hip bone is

grand lynx
#

A lot of public models do the same

loud patio
#

A lot of public models also have calibration issues too

grand lynx
#

true

loud patio
#

Those darn flipped hips!

grand lynx
#

Thats an OLD old old ik fix

loud patio
#

And people still use it

grand lynx
#

guess a lot of people still

#

yeah

loud patio
#

Well I would recommend (if you want to find the actual root issue) messing with the positions of the hip and length of the chest. I know those both can cause issues with the calibration.

grand lynx
#

I can give it a shot

loud patio
#

Also if you own FinalIK or know how to set up Unity's IK system you can often diagnose a lot of issues in-editor

grand lynx
#

Dont use final IK

#

I dont*

acoustic python
#

How do you guys feel about Height vs Arm Based scaling?

#

I accidently used Height Scaling for a few months now and it was fine, but usually i like to simply adjust arm length so that the feet align properly, freaked out for a second because it didnt work anymore until i realized that its because of the different scaling method

#

Are there and good reasons to use/not use heigh/arm scale?

marsh elm
#

i use height scale because i prefer that my legs fit properly when in fullbody

#

it just changes what becomes priority when scaling, arm makes sure arms fit, height makes sure legs fit, etc. Depends on the avatar really

#

if the avi is 100% correct to your proportions then it doesnt really matter

acoustic python
#

yeah i guess i am close to that

#

since it really didnt make much of a difference

grand lynx
#

i prefer arm scale, because height shrinks worldscale, makes avatars feel tiny

#

depends on avatar typically

marsh elm
#

doesnt all scaling change world scale?

#

arms usually match better, so it'd be less drastic i suppose

grand lynx
#

yeah, heightscale typically stretches world scale to fit you perfectly regardless of proportions, armscale lets you fine tune it with custom ratio

#

from my experience anyway

robust tangle
#

that's what the scale by wingspan / scale by height toggle means

coral cairn
#

Best thing to do is find what arm scaling ratio works for you and then scale your avatars so that arm scaling with your custom ratio passed as a parameter is the same as height scaling.

tame pewter
robust tangle
#

Nah, I've been told it's on canny's end.

tame pewter
#

nah just switched avatar in vrc, relogged into canny, and it switched

unknown.png unknown.png
tame pewter
robust tangle
#

Able to test it?

#

You'd need 5.6.3p1.... And a very old SDK. 🙂

#

Or find a random avatar in-game that's very old.

devout current
#

Hmmmm I wonder what would happen if I would load my 2019 project in 5.6.3p1 xD

silent mirage
final raven
#

@oak pendant wanted to ask, since we're doing mini betas now for any additional changes to ik 2.0, how long should we expect each round of mini beta to go for before being pushed to live?

oak pendant
final raven
#

Ah gotcha~vrcLike

oak pendant
#

Yeah, there's less consideration for "is this good enough for a patch" and more along the lines of "Does it work over NetIK? Then why not get wider testing on it?"

#

That could apply to any range of size of feature or fix or timing relative to next patch or release

final raven
#

Oh, I'll need to get video of it later, but I noticed in 3pt the shoulders tend to collapse a bit when reaching across your chest and placing your hand on the side of your opposite shoulder, but in FBT all poses have been working flawlessly as far as I've noticed.

#

Of course, priority for me personally goes towards FBT

oak pendant
#

Yeah, a video would be helpful. In general shoulder behavior will be a bit worse in 3pt because the upper torso that they're attached to can be very misaligned vs IRL

#

if you turn your neck side to side, without a hip tracker, there's not much info on torso orientation really

final raven
#

True yeah~

oak pendant
#

Your avatar in particular also has shoulders at lower height than IRL it appears (which was the cause of the back-snapping you previously observed)

#

Which could maybe be related, but seeing a video would be the best way to know what's going on

final raven
#

Okay, caught some more 3pt jank that I didn't pick up on before in the video. ^^;

#

3pt first vs fbt second

oak pendant
#

Hmm, there might be a little bit that could be done to improve those poses, but it's a lot of over-reach. Even with the latest round of improvements you can still force it to break, in this case it appears to break because you're leaning to the side IRL and the 3pt body is hanging straight down pulling the shoulder away and arm tighter, allowing you to reach further away and behind in 3pt than you can in FBT with the better positioned torso

#

I'll give those same reach over poses a test next time I'm in vr though to see how easy it is to occur

#

In general the goal is to confine most breakable behavior to the sort of painful to reach ranges of motion, but a bit extra was done in the current ik-beta patch to also address some poses that are more common due to avatar proportions even if they'd be painful to reach IRL

final raven
#

Yeah, I figured as such. Which is why I felt more inclined to post it in here rather then on canny directly.

oak pendant
#

Yeah, if it turns out to be a common thing that occurs naturally a lot in 3pt then maybe Canny would make sense, but so far I think I'd categorize it as "if you try to break it, you can" which will likely always be the case to some extent.

devout current
#

I for example didn't experience this when I tested it in 3point. (at least as far as I remember)

devout current
#

Is there anything planned to be added to this IK-Beta at the moment?

wheat river
#

has anyone experience slight body twitching while moving with hip lock?

#

ill upload a video and canny soon

devout current
#

wdym with slight twitching?

wheat river
#

Also happens to other avatars

devout current
#

Oh that, yeah that is completely normal. While locomoting / moving with a thumbstick you get put in to lock head. That's why it does that small movements in lock hip, but not while you are in lock head.

wheat river
#

oh, is it ever planned to get fixed, because it feels jarring

devout current
#

Not that I know of, it's not really seen as bug but as intended behavior

#

IIRC it did the same thing with the old IK

timber grove
#

It's been doing that since before the new IK.

wheat river
#

Yeah, doesn't make it feel less jarring

wheat river
devout current
#

Maybe they could change that when you have locomotion disabled. IIRC it's only there since when you are normally locomoting your legs / hip are animation and not tracked, so it uses the head for reference.

wheat river
#

while switching from head to hip i don't notice the hands slightly twitching

devout current
#

They do actually, you can see that in your video as well

#

They move down a bit when you seit to lock head

wheat river
devout current
#

As I said it's probably done because normal when moving you hip and legs are animated, so it uses the head for reference. Since thats not the case when disabling locomotion, it may be worth to make a canny about it to not do that when it's disabled.

wheat river
#

Alright, it's done

devout current
#

Also added my comment / information to it

robust tangle
#

Has anyone seen FBT locomotion toggle defaulting to "no locomotion" when it is visually on use locomotion? I have to toggle it twice to get the locomotion working

devout current
#

I had that with other IK options

#

Couldn't reproduce it though and only happened once

lethal bridge
#

I thought this was just a weird quirk on my end back when the additional tracker support went live, but now after someone else approached me with the same issue I think it's a bug in VRChat. If you have more than the required 8 additional tracked devices in SteamVR, VRChat will seem to acknowledge their existence by spawning a white tracker ball, but not have any of their position data, leaving them stuck in the origin point in the floor. Restarting SteamVR seems to get all the devices showing up properly in VRChat (up to the 16 device limit) for me, but not for the other person..

devout current
#

Well, there goes IK-Beta, untill we meet again

agile arrow
#

why not keep Ik on when colliding? I see 0 reason for it freezing on collision

devout current
#

There was a whole discussed about it in here a few days ago

agile arrow
#

ok read through it and it just got pushed off as a team issue :/

#

shame

open wagon
#

IDK if this is the right channel but does anyone know what kind of straps to get for knee trackers?

#

like how do ya'll who have 8 trackers put the knee trackers on

#

planning on buying my last 4 trackers today and Im unsure how to put them on lol

#

same with elbows kinda

prisma meadow
#

I use the trackstrap xls. But ive been wanting to use the eoz limb straps but they dont get tight enough for me

timber grove
#

Something funny I found out about on desktop mode. I don't use desktop mode, I use 6pt fbt but this is kinda interesting.

jolly matrix
#

are all 5 finger bones required for FBT in ik 2?

rustic berry
jolly matrix
#

thanks

rocky forge
# timber grove

I was literally about to come mention this. Never saw it myself until I had to test an avatar and didn't want to go into VR. Same thing, Shoulder pops up on run. However, smaller avatars in my favs don't seem to have it happen? But others do. Or maybe it's shoulder length? Armatures are sometimes a mystery to me. But I can confirm I see this as well on Desktop, when you "Sprint" holding shift.

oak pendant
timber grove
#

I was like wat

#

Knowing about this should help the desktop gang

quasi sable
oak pendant
#

The one where elbows are tucked in to the sides as hands come near the same side. It might be worth a look if you think the pose has improved for you

quasi sable
#

I already checked the most recent and it's better but not quite as good as it was in legacy IK

oak pendant
#

In current live build

quasi sable
oak pendant
#

As of build 1205

quasi sable
#

In the most recent live the problem still seems to be there in IK2, it's better, but not quite as good as it was in legacy IK

oak pendant
#

oh wait sorry my bad, as of 1206

quasi sable
# oak pendant As of build 1205

I'll check it again, but I've been on today and yesterday and I hadn't noticed much of a change to that pose, but I'll check again and report back to you when I get a chance.

oak pendant
#

it won't be exactly the same of course because legacy and IK2 have fundamental differences, but 1206 was a pass at improving hand near same side shoulder and among other poses, I kept the one you brought up under consideration

quasi sable
oak pendant
#

Yeah if you give it a test, and have any more feedback, more screenshots in the canny would help there

quasi sable
robust tangle
#

Though if you do have fingers, you want at least 2-chains so they bend the correct way

#

single bone fingers will usually not bend symetrically across left/right hands

quasi sable
oak pendant
quasi sable
lethal bridge
#

sorry for the ping @oak pendant , just wondering if you saw this: #ik-2 message and had any thoughts. Here's an example of what's going on:

unknown.png
#

That tracker in the floor in front of the avatar should be at the chest

oak pendant
#

I think that the lighthouses, which don't have any internal tracked object representation right now, are actually taking up slots from trackers when they shouldn't be

#

Assuming you're using 4 lighthouses, if they are taking slots that they shouldn't, then including the chest tracker that'd be 17 objects of 16 supported, which is likely why stuff is behaving strangely

#

This is something for me to get back to and fix because it's not working as intended, but there are a couple ways to go about it, and other bigger possible projects that it could mesh in with a bigger rework for, or smaller temporary bump to account for up to 4 lighthouses by bumping up object slots to 20. But I'm aware that people aren't always getting the 16 object slots as intended

vital inlet
#

Yo I have a question

devout current
#

Then just ask the question

lethal bridge
marsh elm
final raven
marsh elm
#

and then he was never seen again

loud patio
#

They always ask to ask and then leave

digital grove
#

Classic

oak crow
#

for some reason height calibration is one foot's height off every avatar

#

every avatar is one foot's height too short

devout current
#

Sounds more like your floor in SteamVR is one foot of

oak crow
#

I just readjusted that too so probably not

#

it's not one foot, it's my own one foot's height 😂

#

unless SteamVR always sets the floor off by the height of my foot

#

but that does seem like an oddly specific thing for SteamVR to do

maiden rock
#

as opposed to vive's using /devices/htc or liv using /devices/00liv_virtualcamera/

acoustic python
#

So, i realized that there is some imo weird behavior when you stretch your arms up. I opened the menu so that you can see my actual hand/controller position in relation to the avatar. Basically everything is fine, until suddenly the Avatar hand decides to yeet quite further to the top than the actual hand position is.

That makes it really hard to make slight angles with your elbow when you have the arms up in the air, even with elbow trackers its the same. Its very jumpy between "fully stretched" and "pretty big elbow angle" when dancing with your arms above your head for example, and it just feels really weird.

Is that perhaps a thing because of avatar rig? i tried a couple, and also 2 in the video and it behaves pretty much the same

#

Should i maybe create a canny to this? i didnt find any addressing this yet

devout current
acoustic python
#

ah the UI guy hello xd

#

Okay thanks for linking, will add my text to the canny. Its quite uncomfortable in some situations

devout current
#

The UI guy? xD

acoustic python
#

wasnt that you? :o

devout current
#

:o

#

What UI are you talking about I may ask?

acoustic python
#

i saw you referring to the ui in here a few times

devout current
#

oh yeah then you are right xD

acoustic python
#

But yeah Kung when you read this here even if its intended i'm not a fan of it :p would be interested to hear why its intended though

oak pendant
# acoustic python But yeah Kung when you read this here even if its intended i'm not a fan of it :...

Yeah, it's intentional. Due to avatar vs IRL shoulder pivot mismatch it's common that when the IRL human raises their arms, the avatar is unable to fully extend arms upward. Also with the added shoulder mobility in IK2 it gives even more room for the avatar arm to have slack when fully extended upwards IRL. It might be less of a priority in the western community, but the added support to fully extend arms upward has had really positive feedback from the Japanese community. It allows for more enthusiastic and cuter poses, and also better reproduction of the rest of the arm's IRL pose giving relative priority there when the hand is in a place that's very physically uncomfortable to look directly at (far up relative to chest orientation). Of course it's observable when looking into a mirror but that's not a direct view of your embodied hand and the discrepancy is mostly observable just with the controller overlay also present. I'll take your feedback that you're not a fan into consideration too though, but yeah, there are a lot of people who are a fan of it as well.

devout current
raw wadi
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Image if there was a western/eastern ik toggle

devout current
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That's not what I meant but that would also be funny xD

acoustic python
# oak pendant Yeah, it's intentional. Due to avatar vs IRL shoulder pivot mismatch it's common...

Now that you say it, i heard similar things from people using these common booth avatars.. I do agree that its nice to be able to fully stretch them, but right now it feels like it behaves normal as you'd expect until you have them ~80% stretched upwards, and then it suddenly jumps really quick to 100% streched. That really noticable jump is what throws me off. You think it might be possible to kind of make the jump less noticable by starting extending it slightly earlier maybe? Or, well an option as state above. Thanks for the explanation though!

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i can't really extend my arms fully up actually because im a fucking giant and i lose tracking up at the ceiling xd

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thankfully 3rd base station is on its way for some ceiling tracking B)

minor rampart
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@oak pendant some feedback on the shoulder changes—-they’re great. I don’t have my elbows flip about and freak out anymore. It results in slightly less accurate poses for certain positions, but I think it’s well worth the sacrifice. That slightly less accurate pose (again not all the time) is way less noticeable than my elbows freaking out and turning inside out.

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Really appreciate the change!

jovial shadow
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Would it be possibel while in 6 point to use the floor as assistants for knee position estimations so they don't clip through the floor if you sit or do stuff on the floor

lethal light
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Hmm... So I am also getting the issues with knee trackers not calibrating.
However, this only seems to be the case when I am trying to calibrate with only 1 knee tracker.
If I have both knees and either foot, it calibrates.
If I have 1 knee it does not.
I am using chest, elbows, while trying this.

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It does not seem to calibrate when I am using both feet either

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^ so both knees and only one foot must be present or the knees seem to fail to calibrate

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I tried with one arm both arms and no arms, it does not seem to affect the calibration

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having extra trackers on or off that are out of the calibration range does not seem to affect calibration

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  • I am using a mixed vr setup at the moment, can test without it later this week when I get my new index cable
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CV1 and 2 cameras, no touch controllers

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chest tracker on or off does not seem to affect the calibration\

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hmm.....

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I think I will throw this on the cany later

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anyone have any ideas?

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build 1207

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using height scaling and lock all mode

devout current
devout current
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So yeah, if it actually doesn't work the way it should for you, it might be worth to make a canny.

lethal light
coral ermine
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would it be possible to change User Real Height by 1cm increments instead of 3?
me and a few of my friends are sitting exactly in the middle and it's causing problems, choosing the lower option makes your limbs straight even when slightly bending your irl ones making fullbody walking and movements unnatural, going to the upper option makes your feets sink into the floor

lethal light
inland knoll
inland knoll
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I will take any input, I've been pulling my hair out over this since the patch came out and dealing with the unbearable knee bend when I look down while using lock head instead of my usual lock all

serene pumice
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I am trying to use fbt with only one controller. Given that I've replaced my left-hand with a vive tracker, controller on the right hand, along with waist, and feet trackers is this possible?

I have rebound left controller actions to my right controller, but the game doesn't recognize left controller bindings on the right controller. So the left position movements and clicks does not trigger even though the keys are bound in steamvr. Trackpad to move, stick to rotate, trigger touch for l-interact, and trigger click for r-interact.

I was hoping to register left controller click so I can enable fbt calibration.

devout current
serene pumice
silent mirage
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Once you turn on SteamVR, turn on other trackers.

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After that, turn on the rest base station.

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the way it can achieve is, the base station is not the trackable device, instead, it's just a device that tracking trackers movement.

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so, from SteamVR device panel list, the device list will show up in order when you turn 'em on.
Putting the base station to the end of device list will let the other trackers remain trackable, and since base station is not trackable device we are totally fine in this case.

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ps) only turn on 1 base station allow you to track other trackers.

1 headset
2 elbows
2 controllers
1 chest
1 hip
2 knees
2 feet

2 + (2) Base Station
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That's how I do to get 4 Base Stations & 2 Controllers & 8 Trackers work in VRChat.

lethal light
narrow yew
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i have issues because i have 2 sets of controllers that i switch between when batteries run out

unknown.png
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and if you turn on both sets of controllers before starting vrchat, there's a good chance that one of them won't track ingame for some reason

silent mirage
narrow yew
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but that could have also been me hitting the cap and not realise it

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ah, i see

silent mirage
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I use Quest 2 with Index Controllers, so please count the 2 quest controller into device list. 😊

narrow yew
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i guess i'll disable power management for base stations

silent mirage
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If you want to give it a try, there's a 3-party open source software called 'OpenVR Input Enulator', also you have to patch it with a dll so you can use it properly to disable Controllers dynamically without unplug the batteries.

silent mirage
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You can turn on the controllers after you turn them off, but make sure to restart the game after doing it.

silent mirage
serene pumice
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Is it possible to register one of my tracker as a controller? During FBT calibration the extra tracker gets hidden.

marsh elm
jovial shadow
digital grove
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It's not native steamvr