ik-2

[oak pendant]

Currently I'm giving it a bias based on just being in the zone of the shoulder to lessen the instability

But although IRL that pose is nearly impossible to pull off, avatars do it all the time because people have the shoulder joint further forward than IRL

[prisma meadow]

btw kung what does the chest and upper chest weight painting look like on that avatar?

[quasi sable]

Is there any way to fix this by editing the avatar, or must this be done with the IK Solver?

[quasi sable]

I'm just wondering if I can simply fix my avatar if this isn't possible to pull off with the solver.

[oak pendant]

Sure it can be improved by editing the avatar, but at a system wide level we'd ideally support lots of avatars. And tons of them have this issue, so the solving should take that into account

[prisma meadow]

cool thanks

[oak pendant]

To improve the avatar you'd ideally want it to be hard to reach your avatar's hand behind the avatar's shoulder, so position the shoulder joint accordingly

[quasi sable]

I'd really like to see that too, kung. I am already extremely impressed with what you've accomplished so far! It's amazing!

You guys should license this IK out when you're finished. IK solvers are pretty terrible in most VR games and software.

[oak pendant]

Yw, note that the shirt has cloth stretching across so the weight is set accordingly, underneath the weights look like this on the chest:

I don't use physbones on the chest so if you use that it'd be different too I think

[oak pendant]

That would be unlikely, the current system uses Final IK as a wrapper for passing arrays of bones around and handling some boilerplate stuff, as well as handling the auto footstep. Then we have custom solving for the spine, arms, and tracked legs that fit into that. It was the most practical way to allow a legacy system to work.

[prisma meadow]

alright

[quasi sable]

Maybe publish the source code?

Or is there a really good reason this must be closed source?

[oak pendant]

Well Final IK distributes its source code to license holders, but it isn't just free to distribute to all. And IK2.0 is meshed with Final IK as mentioned above, using it as a boilerplate to handle bone arrays and some low level stuff. The IK2.0 functionality itself is closed source for the usual reasons that any software might be closed source. If a decision would be made to release parts of our code, that wouldn't be up to me though, I'm just trying to answer your question.

[quasi sable]

I understand, management and license agreements are troublesome for the progress of technology as whole. If competition and proprietary nature of companies were to end, society as whole could technologically progress to amazing levels. This type of behavior only holds us back and slows us down. It would be nice to see those in charge stop being greedy and think about humanity as a whole, but it would seem more are interested in playing power and control games because knowledge and information is power and its the best way they can keep their power and others less powerful and therefore less free.

I am aware you do not have power over this. Its just very frustrating and disheartening for someone like myself to see so often. I think those in power need a serious lesson that hopefully changes their minds or prevents them from hording information and power. Luckily, that's already happening and none of us can do anything to change it.

[tame pewter]

[oak pendant]

Yeah, that's a super interesting topic. I think open source in general is great. Such a discussion could get into the development hampering effects of less sharing and the development bolstering effect of money a proxy for humanity's resource allocation but probably not a topic for me to delve into here.

Though if anyone else wants to discuss it, feel free. Though might be better suited for #general-media

[quasi sable]

Good point.

[quasi sable]

Anyways thanks for your time, Kung. Keep up the amazing work. I can't wait to see more!

[oak pendant]

Thanks for the feedback too, I'll keep it in mind while taking another pass on hand-near-shoulder issues

[quasi sable]

No problem! If I see anything, else, I'll file a canny report! Thanks for responding to my feedback!

[empty solar]

only sharing my thoughts on my testing last night:
with my current rig my shoulder bones are average length since the new IK system fixed shoulder sagging compared to legacy. Since the new beta build fixes the arm drifting the caveat is that it will chicken wing but not as much as it used to in previous builds. If I were to swap into my old models with the tiny shoulder bones in the current patch my arms feel shorter sure, but at the same time because of the size they are not chicken winging when I move side to side. I'm glad that this is an ongoing beta and I do expect it to get fixed over time. Kung's doing great work taking in the feedback and addressing issues

[vast tangle]

Is this a bug? How can we work around it until it gets fixed

[limpid ruin]

i think it's already fixed, i didn't tested it yet

[vast tangle]

When was that

[limpid ruin]

today 8:09 am
i can't check now and i haven't even seen the context of the screenshots i've taken, i'm busy at the moment

[vast tangle]

Well yea but i don’t know what time it is for you

It’s 12:25pm here

[limpid ruin]

diuasuydgasyg i forgot that

3:38pm here

[vast tangle]

Why not have two IK Beta branches

One for beta

One for experimental

Experimental branch gets live updates, then like a day or two later if no bugs are found it pushes to the beta

As of right now the IK Beta is the only way to get more than 6 point tracking

So it’s best to not have it break irreversibly

[prisma meadow]

because its a beta

its meant to be tested

[vast tangle]

Yes but to many the beta is the only option

[prisma meadow]

its still a beta

[vast tangle]

Or why not alpha branch then beta

[ionic heron]

that's making a lot of extra work for not much benefit

[vast tangle]

It would prevent issues like we have now

[prisma meadow]

they already have an internal alpha branch most likely

its a beta. its normal to have issues

[ionic heron]

^ having issues is kind of what a beta is lol

[vast tangle]

Feature creep right now really

At what point does the beta finally get pushed

[prisma meadow]

its a beta and they are adding features lmao

[ionic heron]

when it's ready

[vast tangle]

There should still be a fallback for when they break the beta

Some avatars literally don’t work outside of the IK beta

[ionic heron]

it's a beta, the whole point is for it to be tested lol

issues are going to crop up, that's part of beta testing

if you want a stable branch that isn't being changed, use live

[prisma meadow]

^

[vast tangle]

Then my avatar doesn’t work 💀

[zenith glacier]

if your avatar depends on ik beta then there might be something wrong in general tbh

[vast tangle]

Toscas rex evolved

The rig is optimized for the Ik

[prisma meadow]

I proportioned my avi for ik 2.0 so it doesnt really work on live well

[vast tangle]

^

[zenith glacier]

guess you guys dont know what beta means then

[vast tangle]

The beta fixes shit that we had to just cope with before

Because there was no fix

Why would we not take the opportunity to have a functioning avatar

[zenith glacier]

yeah, and stuff breaks in a beta branch which is there for testing , thats what its there for tbh

[ionic heron]

you shouldn't make your main avatar(s) depend on a beta branch to work, as the beta can and will change

[zealous lily]

Here you go, people who want to understand the software development cycle and what betas are for:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle#Beta

[devout current]

You can, but you should have no problem with it breaking after an update

[final raven]

When it's ready. Because it's compatible with live, it'll be worked on for longer then a usual beta runs for to make sure everything works fine before being pushed to live.
You've completely missed the point of beta testing and a beta branch in general as I'm reading here. Stuff is expected to change and stuff is expected to break. That's why when things do break, you report it to the canny so Kung and others can know what's up. Having an extra "experimental" branch would really provide just about nothing at the cost of unnecessary extra work. I mean heck, you're technically on an experimental branch rn. If your models are having issues with the latest ik-beta updates, let kung know with details and everything.

Here's a world you can use to help Kung figure things out with any issues.
https://vrchat.com/home/world/wrld_01025423-c339-4735-8af9-ba45cc9e46f2

[ionic heron]

^
and here's the IK2 canny, for reporting issues/feedback: https://feedback.vrchat.com/vrchat-ik-20

[ionic heron]

try reinstalling the game? otherwise if you can reproduce that, you def might want to make/vote on a Canny post about the issue

detailing your PC specs and a way to reproduce the issue would be helpful too

[grand lynx]

hey kung, even in hip lock, spine is leaning towards hip tracker, even with chest tracker turned off

same issue as before

not much response on my canny either, is it really just me this is happening with?

example, happens on all avatars

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/946881839400882196/970844846220779590/2022-05-02_20-30-02.mp4

[lethal light]

I am getting this as well, just have been too lazy to vote on the cany, will go do that now

[grand lynx]

thank you! driving me crazy not being able to have tracking on hip for dancing

https://feedback.vrchat.com/vrchat-ik-20/p/in-11-point-tracking-lock-all-mode-when-hip-tracker-is-on-the-side-spine-comes-o

[lethal light]

I find that for dancing, having the hip tracker on the back works the best, but I do prefer hip for regular usage I may or may not have landed on my back, cracking my hip tracker

[grand lynx]

typically have it above my left buttocks half way between small of my back and side of my hip. has worked great for how i dance

[dusk anvil]

[snap.wav]

[foggy mauve]

Locking locomotion leaves ik footsteps enabled

causing odd behavior

[copper trench]

but we're testing the beta with our main avatars...that old stuff is history

break it some more, im ready

[random tundra]

Also having this issue, it's been quite a handy feature for me to use on my avatars. Really hope this is fixed before being added to the public release

made a post about it with example gifs to demonstrate
https://feedback.vrchat.com/vrchat-ik-20/p/11922-animator-locomotion-control-broken-no-longer-keeps-player-in-place-when-mo

[robust tangle]

Appears to be fixed in 11923. Can you check?

[jade sleet]

i dont know if this its IK beta related or in live too but in some worlds when im use index controllers im stuck at spawn for remote players but i can move freely and my friend can hear me but next to them but my avatar its stuck at spawn mid underground you can easily swap to vive controllers and the issue its fixed (no need to restart) you magically appear and your avatar move normally i think its related with the battle system in some worlds X.x kinda related with the MMD mmd wolrds stuck at 0 error.

[gleaming imp]

This is a chair station problem I believe
You get stuck for everyone even after switching avatars only rejoin in a other avatar worked for use

[jade sleet]

i dont have chairs in any model

and swapiong models dont fix anything

just swaping controllers fix it

or you will be stuck for ever on spawn for remote players

[gleaming imp]

Maybe not the same issue than

[jade sleet]

T-T

[gleaming imp]

It does do the stuck at spawn too

With absolute no movement it's just frozen in place

But locally you can move

[jade sleet]

you can replicate this in the world dark waters just go with a friend that use index and they will be stuck forever xD i think its relared with the battle system that make you a ragdoll when you die in game

[rustic berry]

I believe it's a long standing issue with index controllers and root motion

[strong sundial]

It's just the combat system in general being buggy.
If a world has the combat system, then index users wearing certain avatars will have their networked IK frozen remotely. Avatars with even just 1 chair causes it. Other avatars can also cause it, but I haven't been able to figure out what else exactly does it. It's not unique to the ik-beta and was a bug introduced with the OSC update

[dusk anvil]

it's been here for forever

[jade sleet]

we need more love for index user its like we have something unsupported. T-T

[grand lynx]

I have witnessed this happen to my friend any time he swaps into an avatar that can create clones or has chairs.

His voice comes from the location he is at whether its spawn or where he swaps into that avatar

but he can move around freely on his screen and can hear, but the voice still comes from the avatar slightly in the ground

I believe a function on the avatar causes it

Oh, falcon addressed this as well

[random tundra]

I don't believe that version is available for me or not out yet? Just launched the game and it hasnt updated since last I launched it. I don't see any announcements for 11923?

[robust tangle]

That's the current version of IK-Beta. Update your client if it doesn't say 11923

[random tundra]

I did go into the game and test it out, it's still bugged

checked to see that I was still on the beta as well

[robust tangle]

But did your version say 11923? it's possible you might still be running 11922

I had your problem on 22, but don't anymore on 23

[foggy mauve]

issue still present on 11923

just checked

[random tundra]

checked my build number, it is 11923

[empty solar]

meanwhile we're still dealing with avatar interactions bug

[ancient geode]

wonder how long till ik beta cathes up to the new live patch lol

[hot fulcrum]

maybe few hours as still no new k-dev branch.

[ancient geode]

its late as well so he might be asleep

so probably tomorrow

[prisma meadow]

uh oh

well it should be network compatible, so there shouldnt be much issues with seeing others. I think.

[ancient geode]

ya not alot changed but i really like the world imoble setting

its the setting i been wanting forever

[wheat relic]

Not sure if it's just me, but since updating to 11922, loading other people's avatars has felt much slower and seems to cause much longer lagspikes on my end

[hot fulcrum]

fixed in 11923 IIRC, check patch note.

[hot fulcrum]

It should

no ETA at this time.

[vital inlet]

Double check if your ram usage or CPU usage from browsers is good.

[devout current]

I guess Kung is working on merging live with the IK Beta :p

[marble obsidian]

Oooooo

Where did you see this?

[hot fulcrum]

mainly steamdb

[devout current]

Yup

[devout current]

Beta update time

[dusk anvil]

open beta aaah spooky

[dark silo]

🙌

[tame pewter]

[unreal gazelle]

Thanks for the update!

[oak pendant]

🙌

[onyx nest]

Does this bring us up to date with live?

[devout current]

Yup

[quasi sable]

Hey Kung, hows development going?!

[oak pendant]

Yep

[oak pendant]

Going well, there are some other in progress things not in this update, but snapshotted what was done at the time to get p4 out to everyone sooner

[quasi sable]

P4?

Oh the version

[royal leaf]

is it bad that when I read p4 i thought of persona

before the version?

[quasi sable]

lol yeah I had to double take for a sec

[oak pendant]

2022.1.2p4 yeah hehe

[quasi sable]

Hows the shoulder thing going?

(The feedback I supplied)

[oak pendant]

Lower priority than some knee stuff that people want, but still on the list of things I'd like to improve. Though as mentioned in the previous discussion, the problem is not a completely solvable one. I did some comparison on live with hands near shoulders. The pose you like works better, but overall there are way more failing poses, for example more instances of the elbow just stabbing right through the head etc.

But yeah, I plan to still poke at it some more

[grand lynx]

Will check the alignment issue as soon as I am home from work. I noticed that the spine leaned towards the tracker, it wasnt just randomly breaking.

[marsh elm]

question, can i use any combination of points i want in this beta, or is it locked to groups?

[quasi sable]

Awesome! Keep at it! Things are coming along nicely. Are these changes in p4?

[marsh elm]

like, can i use... one elbow?

for example lol

[quasi sable]

Just wondering if I can test it out myself

[oak pendant]

No, that's the work in progress stuff I was talking about

[lethal light]

You can mix and match whatever you want, I use 1 knee so I can have chest

[oak pendant]

You can use a single elbow tracking if you'd like 💪

[marsh elm]

😆 cool

[quasi sable]

Okie, will you put it in the changelog when it's in a build? What should I look for in the changelog?

[marsh elm]

it'll be useful for... reasons

mono elbowed man

thanks

[oak pendant]

There are a couple of things that turn off other trackers

[limpid vessel]

E

[oak pendant]

If you don't have feet tracked, the knees will become untracked

[final sphinx]

toe tracking wen

[grand lynx]

😂

[oak pendant]

that's about it I think, currently one-handed controller mode actually shuts off more of the IK than I'd like, but it's not intended to (may or may not get to adjusting that)

[lethal light]

osc, I saw a video of someone who did it xD

[quasi sable]

Ctrl Labs made some cool tech that uses electrodes to render and track an entire hand without spacial tracking

They also had worked on something for fbt as well

[royal leaf]

said that faster than i could smh

[quasi sable]

Before meta bought them

[lethal light]

gotta be a fast typer ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[marsh elm]

my kingdom for native hand tracking, like that one OSC package

[royal leaf]

I am a fast typer, not a fast thinker

[marsh elm]

it's so cool

[quasi sable]

Which one? Does it use leap motion, do tell!

[marsh elm]

you can make index folk bow down at your might by doing the spock hand sign

[royal leaf]

and also not having the troubles of having an Index controller

[worn spire]

Yeah, I'm working on building some LucidVR gloves, going to try throwing together an OSC provider for them

[quasi sable]

I'm using the Bhaptics OSC right now and gonna use the eye and facetracking one once we get more parameters or the facetracking milestone comes out

[marsh elm]

https://a3s.booth.pm/items/3689147

been playing with this

i've used it with the quest's hand tracking, not sure if it supports leap motion

works pretty nice with hand tracking 2.0 now

[royal leaf]

if there is one thing i'll say, got damn i've been loving the updated ik

[marsh elm]

i just hate using ALVR

[quasi sable]

What kind of hardware is it using

[marsh elm]

quest's native hand tracking

[quasi sable]

Leap motion, Quest hand tracking?

[quasi sable]

Oh nice, how does it obtain that data?

[lethal light]

I bet it could be adapted to leap motion, but unless it deals with the inputs from leap it probably wont work

[marsh elm]

ALVR is able to send the hand tracking data to steamvr's skeleton, then the OSC package sends it to the vrchat avatar ingame

[quasi sable]

Someone could write this for use with the Vive SDK handtracking which works on all SteamVR headsets including the index

[full gull]

ready to test the 11th point tonight

[quasi sable]

gimme those trackers

[full gull]

4 of them are vive wands lmao

[tranquil jay]

zamn

[lethal light]

that sounds.... a bit uncomfortable, which trackers you use as wands?

[full gull]

knees and elbows

[grand lynx]

Do all 11 dongles need to be spread out? Sometimes it feels like they work just as good even if they are clumped together

[marsh elm]

me irl

[quasi sable]

Its uncomfy for me to use knees or elbows

I have more trackers

[marsh elm]

https://streamable.com/bycjmp

it looks like this, a bit choppy but the motion is there

wonder if its possible to make it smoother

[quasi sable]

very cool!

[marsh elm]

dont mind the music lol

[quasi sable]

Its jittery because of OSC parameters don't sync at ik speed

[grand lynx]

Did some of Udon Sword 2 last night in 11 point, trying to get my Tifa on:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/613685818762199073/971579000747065354/MMORPGVR.mp4

[quasi sable]

An issue for this is in the canny

[full gull]

steamvr tracking quality is a truly unknown land. Some nights work better than others. Sometimes one will be super finicky and keep losing tracking and I'll plug it into a different USB controller

[grand lynx]

Preach

[full gull]

so I've got one dongle that's plugged into my monitor which is plugged into a USB 2.0 port, then another dongle that's plugged into the extension thing it came with which is plugged into a USB 3.0 port on the motherboard, then the rest are all in a hub that's plugged into a USB 3.0 PCIe expansion card

[marsh elm]

that's quite yeehaw partner

[full gull]

it's jank af

[grizzled depot]

Used to use elbows and knees but kind of stopped because there was always tracking issues. I think the dongles being on the same USB hub causes interference so I bought another USB hub to be placed in a different location to see if it helps

[marsh elm]

im just waiting on that tundra dongle to use the full might of my vive wands

time to ultraman it up

[grand lynx]

I want the tundra dongle so bad

[marsh elm]

i bought i on release

they havent shipped it yet

i hate it

aaaaa

[full gull]

wait can you use tundra dongle w/ vive trackers? get them all to connect to it?

[lethal light]

is everyone in this channel just waiting for tundra at this point xD

[marsh elm]

so 3 point tracking for now lol

[marsh elm]

works with any lighthouse stuff

[rustic zodiac]

Can confirm from personal experiance that Dongle McDongleface is good but will not solve 11 point tracking wierdness

[marsh elm]

trackers, controllers, knuckles wands etc

[full gull]

huh that's great, thought they'd only support their own devices. Going from 8 dongles to 1 would be nice.

[grand lynx]

I probably wont get tundra personally, three friends have them and all have tracking issues because the tundra are easy to hide from the base stations for some reason. I just want the dongle

[rustic zodiac]

Over 6 attached trackers ANY and I mean ANY external Bluetooth or 2.4ghz devices will cause interference.

[marsh elm]

its a generic steamvr dongle thing, tundra uses the same protocol as vive trackers

you can repurpose old steam controller dongles for it too

they use the same protocol

[royal leaf]

my tracking has been consistently garbage with one specific base station on everything, including my headset, and steam support told me it's because i'm running windows 11.

[full gull]

oh I guess it can only do 4, so 2 dongles for 8 devices. Still tho

[marsh elm]

yeah, i bought the 4 slot dongle

[rustic zodiac]

For the best tracking turn off everything using 2.4ghz, including Bluetooth. Remove glass or reflective surfaces, including painted metal unless it is weatherproof Black paint designed to stop Sun fade

[marsh elm]

waiting for them to figure out how to ship 💀

[rustic zodiac]

Oh, and cover your Monitor or screens with a thick cloth or other substance

[royal leaf]

fuck. i'll try that.

[marsh elm]

y'all should see my setup though, it is gloriously jank

[grand lynx]

I live in an appartment complex and i see like 30 2.4gz routers when I try to find mine for my phone T_T

[marsh elm]

feet and waist wands

absolute monstrocity

[rustic zodiac]

I have 6 monitors, trust me covering them and not doing so is a HUGE difference. Think, go to the moon once at least every 10 seconds to maybe once an hour difference

[full gull]

found it interesting seeing LTT Linus talking about tracking issues and he did all the things, different USB controllers, reflections, distancing them from each other etc. But once he switched from Vive 2.0 trackers to Vive 3.0 trackers they worked pretty much flawlessly. So I think it really is just a quality issue.

[marsh elm]

or a skill issue, as the cool kids say

[rustic zodiac]

He had metal and glass tabletop and a giant TV

2.0's particularly hate that xD

3.0 are better but still do suffer

[grand lynx]

Can you plug them in like this or do they need to be on the dongles and spread out?

[full gull]

I have some plugged in like that and they work fine

[rustic zodiac]

Spread them out if you see them not moving or freezing constantly

If not it's fine

[full gull]

yeah it really is a tug of war troubleshooting thing

roll a high luck number

[grand lynx]

Just seems like sometimes it doesnt matter if they are or not, the steamvr is a thing

[rustic zodiac]

Can I ask if anyone in here uses 4 main body bones: Spine, Hip, Chest, Upperchest
And uses 11 point tracking

have you noticed with a standard Layout of bones the chest pops out hugely to the point it exaggerates movement a sh*t tonne xD

Like, I move my chest maybe 1 cm, it pops out like 10

Sometimes when I'm in VR I get mad af with them (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

[lethal light]

pretty sure that is just the nature of the beast when not using an upperchest bone, although not sure. I believe most people with chest tracking have been upgrading to 5 main body bones

[rustic zodiac]

I have upperchest

[lethal light]

wow I can't read

[rustic zodiac]

xDDD

[grand lynx]

I dont have the upper chest and I have the same issue

[lethal light]

I think it is a weight painting issue, as I had a lot of problems before I redid it all

[grand lynx]

I think that isnt a place a lot of people are used to weight painting yet

[rustic zodiac]

I just re-did my entire weight paint to try compensate To stop the hip weirdness I found this works best

[lethal light]

hmm........ I believe everyone has had a smaller upper chest bone with a larger chest bone

[rustic zodiac]

See, I tried that and it makes it even worse xDDD

[oak pendant]

The relative bone lengths will matter a lot. The longer the spine bone is, the more distance the chest can cover as it swings around. The hip is tracked and so in general should stay put, and the chest is also tracked. It's the spine bone in between that must pivot from its connection to the hip to find a location for the tracked chest to arrive at.

[rustic zodiac]

@oak pendant Are the middle bones allowed to stretch a little like your spine naturally does?

And squash in certain situations

[rustic zodiac]

Isn't that top bone your neck?

[oak pendant]

No, there's currently no bone stretching involved

[lethal light]

yes

[oak pendant]

Maybe, at some point, but this would require a change to what bone data is transmitted over the network

[rustic zodiac]

Yeah, specifically the Spine needs to stretch to move correctly

As the back arches it does stretch

[lethal light]

it also helps if you make sure to line up the chest-spine joint about where the chest begins in my experience as it gives a more realistic bending, but yeah, allowing the spine to strech would be a nice to have

[rustic zodiac]

Otherwise something else must get pushed out of the way or pulled

@oak pendant Does the chest tracker use Upperchest if available or chest always?

Probably first thing I should have asked haha

[oak pendant]

The chest tracker will always map to the chest bone, the upper chest (if available) will provide a small bit of angle correction when IK solving towards the head. The neck will make up the rest of the difference

[rustic zodiac]

This could be cheated by allowing the bones to space out a little rather than actually stretching them

Currently they are connected if I remember?

[oak pendant]

That information isn't currently transmitted over the network, maybe a future change could facilitate it, but unlikely for IK2.0 release

[rustic zodiac]

OK, so I should be using upperchest for the very top of my chest only?

Or just remove it for now?

[oak pendant]

It depends on what looks better to you. Having upper chest will allow IK to solve more but that can translate to less direct control of the top of the chest area

[lethal light]

yes take a look at Gireison's avatar for a good reference. There should are a few pics in this channel a while up showing the weight painting

[final raven]

I realized after this latest update that there is a character limit to Steam launch options. ^^; Had to temporarily cutout my vrcurl launch option just to fit the new ik-debug option in ^^;

[rustic zodiac]

Could you link me?

[final sphinx]

Chest tracking is real cool, thx for that, @oak pendant

immersion++

[lethal light]

Here

[rustic zodiac]

Ty

[marsh elm]

I wanna see someone do 11pt full vive wand tracking

The wandman, my hero

[rustic zodiac]

Now that would be funny as hell

🪄

[marsh elm]

i got 4 so max i can do is 7pt

the wandman struggles the most with chest tracking, cant figure it out

the wand strappage

[grand lynx]

Kung, no dice, still breaks

different avatar for reference

hip leans toward tracker

or orients to it

[oak pendant]

I see, after the latest change in this patch I was unable to view any shift at all when binding during my own testing. So at this point it's something I can't reproduce. If at some point you'd be able to meet up in app, there's something I'd like try that might help me to reproduce the problem. We'd have to find a time when we're both around though.

I'll be finishing up for the day pretty soon here myself, though if you happen to be around now (don't have to be in vr) I could try what I'm thinking

[grand lynx]

Im free the rest of the day, would be happy to meet, just give me a ping @oak pendant

[oak pendant]

Cool, yeah if you're around now let's do it. I'll send you a DM so it's easier to coordinate

[grand lynx]

Sounds good

Let me hop back in

[harsh lagoon]

hope ya'll figure it out heck yeah

[trail onyx]

So will quest be getting the IK update or will this be pc only?

[rustic berry]

there's no full body tracking on quest, so that wouldn't make any sense

[upbeat vault]

Theres a bunch of tweaks and updates to halfbody too though

[upbeat vault]

Also, I don't know if its related to IK beta or just recent updates in general
but I noticed two animations I had broke
first, the (vrc animator locomotion control) when disabled
while it still locks you in place and prevents you from turning or walking, it doesn't lock leg rotations anymore
if you physically turn, the legs will spin and face the direction your looking, so only position disables, not rotation
though, I'll try disabling feet tracking with that toggle and see if that helps, could just be the foot auto-ik staying on

The other animation was one that adjusted root height that does nothing now
though, thats not really related to any IK, I'll just need to work around it
my tools to puppeteer my halfbody legs are falling apart, haha

[rocky forge]

While the brunt of updates have effected the expansion of 4+ tracker play, it has also included many tweaks and changes that 3 or less tracking can see. I wouldn't be surprised if Quest got it as well. It's probably just easier to facilitate a single beta build on a single platform in the one place all tested features will be played with.

Reason being is that most, if not all, tracking types (desktop all the way to 11 plus) are done using steam vr. Oculus natively doesn't support full body; you'll end up booting the steam client anyway. Neither does quest. Makes no sense to run this beta outside of steam if you can't test all features.

[winged cape]

Anyone else have issues with AD interactions? Half the time I'm unable to interact with others and vice-versa, and in order to fix that, one of us has to either rejoin, or block and unblock the other. I wonder if it's due to me being in the ik beta while the other isn't. Haven't tested it to see if it's true yet, though

[final raven]

https://vrchat.canny.io/avatar-dynamics-reports-and-feedback/p/11922-bug-physbones-interactivity-seemingly-disabled-until-allowpause-interactio

No need to block / unblock, plus doing that hurts your trust rank. @winged cape

[young flame]

Blocking and unblocking is so minimal to the trust rank especially if it fixes the issues presented (avatars randomly hidden for you, shader issues, etc)

[devout current]

All of the things you have mentioned can be fixed by just pressing Show Avatar, Hide Avatar or Use Safety Settings. ( so just clicking on the option you already selected there)

[young flame]

Not always

It's really no big deal is it? Like it's just a quick block and unblock and it works. If blocking is so crucial to the trust rank, don't let it fix issues then. Otherwise I'll do it if it fixes the issue

[zenith glacier]

I can imagine that it hurts trust level for newer users. A 2-3 years trusted one won't notice it. Anyway, all issues I know of can be solved by hiding/unhiding avatar, stop & restart interactions and if someone is completely non existing for you, rejoining the world does do the trick

[young flame]

Sure rejoining the world can work but the block/unblock is usually faster for me and less inconvenient. If it harms a newer user so be it, put that issue on VRChats trust system rather than me. They should have more awareness that unblocking should undo the damages, especially if I'm doing it in a short period of time. Otherwise some person could just spam block and unblock and really screw it up for people.

[zenith glacier]

There are people that are doing that. But what an block and unblock does is reloading the avatar + some other connection stuff I assume. If the connection stuff (like voice) has no need to be resetted then hide/unhide it is

[young flame]

Assuming the hide/unhide fixes it, which it doesn't always do

[zenith glacier]

if you are at that point where this doesnt help, i would rejoin the lobby anyway, since that issues might occur on multiple people anyways

[young flame]

Or just, y'know, block and unblock

Since it's usually only ever one person

[zenith glacier]

if you so badly want the other troubles block and unblock brings for you then fine, idc /shrug

[young flame]

What other troubles lmao

My trust rank? Who cares. Is vrchat gonna ban me for blocking people?

[zenith glacier]

for example that the block state gets triggered sometimes for whatever reasons, and suddenly everyone is like "why did you block that person?", despite you having done only one short block/unblock in the past

been there, seen everything and i get that situation at least twice per week with the people i hang around with

[young flame]

If everyone is reacting to it, it's probably because they're all using clients which is against vrchats ToS. They really shouldn't be aware if someone is blocking someone regardless. Additionally, I'm calling bs on such a minor thing since if they were aware of the block, they'd certainly be aware of the unblock as well. An anecdote is simply proof of an anecdote.

[zenith glacier]

i call bs on that, a simple "whom are you talking to?" does uncover the blocked person immediately you know? communication does happen in this game

[young flame]

That's no longer a block and unblock. Thats someone just being blocked or hidden. At that point, that's not even relevant to this conversation

That's where you'd go and block/unblock or rejoin the world and they'd reappear, and people would blame it on vrchat being junky

[zenith glacier]

nope, exactly how i told you. block getting triggered for whatever reason by an earlier block/unblock

[young flame]

Nope that's not how that works

[zenith glacier]

oh yeah, and the stuck 80 friend requests i declined multiple times over the past year is "Not how it works as well" hmm?

the api has issues every now and then

but anyway, thats ik beta channel, you do what you feel is right, i do my thing /shrug

[bitter zenith]

my avatar still force using auto-footstep after build 11942, anyone have an idea?

oh btw, desktop mode.

[oak pendant]

What circumstances for preventing auto-footstep are failing?

Or in other words, specifically why are you expecting that auto footstep shouldn't be active when it mistakenly is?

[bitter zenith]

may be i got some misunderstanding.

i've replied in this post

https://feedback.vrchat.com/vrchat-ik-20/p/11922-feet-ik-overrides-animations-in-desktop-3pt

it seems my problems not caused by auto-footstep, it's may be overrides

and my problems is same as the video posted by fina in this post,

[oak pendant]

Do you have "Use Auto Footstep" disabled in the avatar's descriptor?

(Thanks for responding to the Canny too by the way)

[bitter zenith]

sure, i've disabled it, that's why i got misunderstanding at first place, i thought that was caused by auto-footstep

i'm at w_2022.1.2p4-40821b1044

[oak pendant]

It might not be a misunderstanding. I'm trying to figure out which condition to disable auto foot step is failing in your case

[bitter zenith]

dunno where to check build numbers

should i reupload my avatar again?

[oak pendant]

It appears that having "Use Auto Footstep" unchecked in the descriptor isn't working properly, is that the case?

I don't think it's needed to reupload, this looks like a bug on our end. Thanks for bringing it to my attention

[bitter zenith]

after seeing that feedback post, i think it's not just caused by auto-footstep. it's just like, stop walking, and avatar played idle animation just one time, and something like ik override the lower body's transform, and then auto-footstep joined and make legs back to a normal position.

just like fina's video

this happened after 2022.1.2p3, build 11922

[oak pendant]

The leg stepping to an odd position is something I'd like to get to a more solid fix on, but that's a separate issue. I think it's true the currently Use Auto Footstep in the descriptor isn't being accounted for

(which is a bug) hopefully will have a fix for that in next ik beta patch, thanks for bringing it up

[bitter zenith]

Thanks!

[tawdry nymph]

I'll search or open a canny soon

TrackingType is 6 but I'm in 3pt, so it's not playing my footsteps anims

opened:

[11942] TrackingType is 6 but I'm not in full body, may cause custom locomotion controller to mistakenly not ground my feet/play footsteps

[empty solar]

apparently this fixed my chicken winging https://twitter.com/m_ryo/status/1522180595379363840

遼/SELAFIM (@m_ryo)

VRChatのik-beta 6点トラッキング以上で、肩のボーンが長かったりウエイトを塗っているアバターで腕を前に出した時に肩が前に出すぎる問題の解決策です。ウエイトを修正する必要はありません。Cannyに不具合として上がっているので、投票のご協力お願いします。
https://t.co/SmjSsUGDgb

Likes

613

Retweets

237

Twitter · May 5, 2022, 11:45 AM

[vital inlet]

I use kinect for full body tracking. It works fine because i have it set up correctly and have a large playspace. But everytime i try to enter the IK beta it immediately crashes my game. Could this be related to my kinect?

Do they have to have a avatar for ik

?

[marsh elm]

remove mods 👍

[carmine gate]

Also, once you have it working by removing your mods, make sure to set it to Lock Head in the game

[vital inlet]

i dont have any installed

[carmine gate]

Been using Amethyst myself with the IK beta since it released

and I haven't had crashing issues like that

Try clearing your game completely

verify game file integrity in steam
delete HKEY_CURRENT_USER -> Software - > VRChat in regedit
Delete the VRChat cache folder in %appdata%\..\locallow\vrchat

[oak pendant]

That behavior should have been drastically reduced by build 11921 (I should probably note that in the Canny)

[vital inlet]

il try, tyty

[devout current]

update time

:p

[bronze olive]

Tracking reverts to 3pt when I turn my trackers off so no more sleeping in cute positions bring it back

[oak pendant]

Here's the Canny for that: https://vrchat.canny.io/vrchat-ik-20/p/11748-freezinglocking-ik-feature though I see you've already voted on it. Thanks for the feedback

[devout current]

Maybe a lock position button?

[oak pendant]

👀

[devout current]

whops xD

I added "button" to that sentence afterwards xD

[oak pendant]

Near term, probably no more button options before release. New launch options are low friction to add, until main menu rework. This is a little "spacebar-heater" territory, but I get the use case. It may or may not have something in before IK2.0 releases, but in general I plan to have a way to satisfy the use case in some way

That doesn't mean "satisfy in some way before release" as a promise though. It means I get and agree with the use case, but building back in spacebar heaters is low on the list of priorities

[devout current]

yeah I have to say using launch options for everything feels a bit janky xD

[oak pendant]

Most of the options in there just wouldn't be available at all if allowing them meant tackling the ux concerns associated with option bloat and understandability as well as menu space. There was a bit of a discussion in this channel way back weeks ago about that topic so I won't rehash it all now. Personally I agree with adding tons of buttons to do everything in every way possible, but there's a bigger picture than my personal opinion or what the most vocal enthusiasts on discord want.

Found it, if you want to read up on the old discussion: #ik-2 message

[vast tangle]

Is there a way for you to combine the two forms of avatar measurement (wingspan and height) to fix both knee and arm placement? With wingspan measurement, my avatars arms are bent properly but the knees get messed up when crouching. But with height measurement, the knees are correct but the arms are straightened out more than they should be. Hope I’m describing this well

[oak pendant]

Not without somehow changing the proportions of the avatar itself

[devout current]

Those more advanced options should probably get their own little section in the Main Menu Settings page with a small warning that they are really only meant for more advanced users. With that you wouldn't clutter the UI or confuse new people but would still give those who want more control.

[vast tangle]

^

[oak pendant]

I'd recommend using scale by height and then adjusting your arm length in blender

[vast tangle]

I’ll see what I can do. Body proportions can be a bit tricky

[acoustic snow]

agreed, this seems like a good compromise. hopefully the UI team is considering it.

[devout current]

Of course not just every option / setting, but a few which would be to much for the QM and people really want.

[vast tangle]

Most games and softwares usually have some form of advanced settings that notify the user that they could mess stuff up if they don’t know what they’re doing. Consider the advanced world options minecraft used to have before they removed it

[oak pendant]

Yeah, I'd like to have a button for each and every launch option related to IK (again not a promise) but it would need space like the main menu rework could provide if IK options had their own page. Filling up the quickmenu settings tab with all that probably won't work though. So for now, launch options or no soup for you! (boomer Seinfeld reference)

[devout current]

Yup, that was my idea as well ^^

The QM settings are already kinda full ngl xD

btw the QM settings page still always starts at the bottom and doesn't save where you last were. Ik this is the same in live and in the IK Beta, but with all the new options from the IK beta it's getting a bit annoying xD

[hot fulcrum]

☝️

[undone plinth]

It's an understandable compromise. It's annoying but hopefully once UI 2.0 is in place you can get around to implementing that after all

[devout current]

I hope the next open beta will be UI 2.0

[undone plinth]

A lot of the features from the roadmap are being blocked by needing the UI

[hot fulcrum]

yeah, if going deeper and deeper on IK, option button already got so many and nearby get time to have dedicated menu tab by the time.
it is true but not that quick can do it than add new button to empty space after make..

[undone plinth]

We do have stuff on the side like the Creator companion that Momo has said will be coming soonish

[devout current]

yup, sadly they are

[hot fulcrum]

yeah, creator companion also nearby happening too as visual, agree with you.

[oak pendant]

Yeah, I mean I'm doing my best you get you guys as much as possible as soon as possible. If everything had to be a button and launch options were out, some of that "sooner" would just become "later" instead.

[rustic berry]

my man doing god's work out here

[hot fulcrum]

yeap

Kung is god of IK

[rustic berry]

just got my new chest tracker mount today, gonna be trying it out tonight

chest tracking is awesome but my old tundra strap just kept sliding lol

strap itself would slide down, and tracker would slide side to side

[undone plinth]

I still say give us a classic console and force us to type cvars in in vr

[devout current]

Kung = Giga Chad

😅

[undone plinth]

That's definitely a better solution than launch parameters

[vast tangle]

I don’t fully understand the use of a chest tracker. How much extra posing does it allow for?

Head bop?

[rustic berry]

if you are using Lock head/lock hips, it only drives the rotation of the chest, which is already useful. however,

if you're using Lock all, it also does position

so you can actually pop your chest out

[oak pendant]

I mean, I'd probably use such a system. I guess that makes, like... at least 2 people? 😅

[rustic berry]

very visible if you're like stretching your back

[vast tangle]

Does it allow you to dance like this?

[rustic berry]

yea you could

[undone plinth]

Honestly I'm pretty sure a lot of people would actually use it. would just walk over to my keyboard and type it in with my headset on personally

[rustic berry]

it also helps make the spine bend more naturally when laying down and such

[undone plinth]

Whenever I bring up a Dev console I am only half joking

[oak pendant]

Close to that, it will be closer to that if you don't have an upper chest bone actually... But the "unnatural" movements that are intentional there might show up at other times too due to IRL vs avatar proportional differences. So if you want it to look more natural more of the time, upper chest bone will help with that.

[bronze olive]

Yep. Thanks anyways though! Very happy with everything else in the beta so far, keep up the good work!

[rustic berry]

so actually about the whole upper chest thing, I wasn't having much luck getting it to look good with it being a smaller bone between the chest and the neck. however, I did have more luck basically replacing Chest with Upperchest, and making Chest a smaller bone underneath upperchest

[vast tangle]

What exactly is the difference in how the wingspan vs height measurements affect your avatar

[oak pendant]

Did it? I was still having that issue (as well as some people on live too) while I was testing. (I assume it's the issue where you have to pause/unpause interaction permission to get it to work)

[rustic berry]

this actually worked pretty well

[ancient geode]

ya idk havent tested much might be mistake but it seems to work

need to test more to be sure

[oak pendant]

If you wear your chest tracker at the same height as that lower chest bone that looks fine

[devout current]

I hope you guys can fix that soon, it's probably the most annoying bug ever xD

or at least in a long time

[oak pendant]

Hopefully it's fixed. I'll keep my eye out too to see if it comes back again

[rustic berry]

does the chest tracker always bind to Chest, or can it also bind to Upperchest?

[ancient geode]

idk normally no one has it on when i join but the last few worlds its not been skuffed

[oak pendant]

In general, use measure by height unless you have a reason not to. Each of the measuring options attempts to fit the avatar to your IRL body via the measured dimension. So if it's arms it tries to fit the avatar's wingspan to yours. If it's height, then height.

Overall scale can be adjusted to try to fit, but there's no squashing or stretching involved, so in most cases it has to fit one or the other but not both (unless you carefully proportion your avatar)

[vast tangle]

I see

[oak pendant]

Fitting a square and a rectangle together so some edges line up... You could fit the square inside the rectangle, or the rectangle inside the square, but to fit both length and width at the same time you'd have to mush the rectangle into a different shape (a square)

we don't mush the avatar's shape around, so you'll have to do that youself in blender if you want to change proportions

[vast tangle]

I guess my avatars arms are slightly shorter than they should be

[rustic berry]

it would be interesting if VRC could auto stretch the arms and legs, but that would probably lead to some weird results lol

[oak pendant]

Measure by height is the most intuitive mode to make adjustments for, using that you can just scale the arms a bit longer

[vast tangle]

Time to figure out how to do that without fucking up all of the blendshapes

[oak pendant]

A few years ago I made a whole guide about proportional adjustments on youtube that account for the old measure by arms method, it needed a whole guide because it's complicated to think about when it's by arms, but by height is simple

[oak pendant]

Yeah, would be interesting, but might also kind of kill the diversity of avatars you see if everyone started using such an option. Not a bad idea though

Would be crazy to see what that would due to some of the less humanlike avatars, imagine an automatically scaled T-rex

[rustic berry]

lmfao

[upbeat vault]

it would be the return of longchu

[devout current]

@ancient geode you are right, I don't have that interaction issue anymore too

Kung, what ever magic you did by accident, it's great xD

[oak pendant]

And just to be clear this is the play-pause "toggle until it works" interactions were disabled, issue?

[devout current]

yeah I don't have to do that anymore

[oak pendant]

I don't think I can take credit (probably). It's likely something I merged from release. Though if the issue remains in p4 maybe it's something I did? I wasn't working on fixing AD issues though

[devout current]

hm weird

maybe you slipped something in from another internal version ?

by accident

[oak pendant]

Glad it's working though, but since it's mysteriously working best to keep an eye out for it happening still

[devout current]

yup, I will

[oak pendant]

I'm sure to merge directly from the current release to maintain the live compatible beta

so current ik beta is 2022.1.2p4 + ik2.0 only

[devout current]

okay it's still broken...

It was just those two instances in which it worked

[oak pendant]

Oh well... at least it's not mysterious anymore

[devout current]

or is it? idk I'm confused, I have to do more testing

I'll do some more testing and tell you later if it is

[oak pendant]

I haven't looked into the cause at all myself since it's not an ik beta exclusive issue. But if you find anything feel free to share. I think there's a general canny for it somewhere. I should probably merge the one on the ik2 canny into it if I can find it

[devout current]

here is the canny:
https://feedback.vrchat.com/avatar-dynamics-reports-and-feedback/p/11922-bug-physbones-interactivity-seemingly-disabled-until-allowpause-interactio

[oak pendant]

oh bd_ linked the duplicate in the canny they posted

[ancient geode]

my gess it was a slight version desync between live and ik beta but this update meged something in that dident get merged last update

[devout current]

hm

[oak pendant]

I've seen it happening with live+live users too though

[devout current]

yeah true

okay, it's not fixed

at least not between 1194 2 and 1194 4

my friend in 1194 2 still had to do it so I could interact with them

[oak pendant]

Yeah, I don't expect it to be fixed in 11944. I didn't do anything that would mess with any of that stuff. Of course sometimes bugs can come from and be solved by unexpected places. But yeah there's no reason I'm aware of that it should be fixed in 11944

Also wasn't fixed in the super-secret version 11943 🕵️

[devout current]

yeah true I'm confused where that bug comes from tbh, a friend told me that it started happening on Monday, but there was no patch on monday

[devout current]

you mean the version which probably had a bug in it, so you needed to update it before releasing it for us? xD

[oak pendant]

Hehe, it was actually just "let's do a release, oh what's this? Haï~ is saying something about issues from TrackingType avatar parameters? Better fix that really quick too"

[devout current]

ahhh ^^

[hot fulcrum]

[final raven]

@ancient geode wait, is that issue resolved suddenly now? I'm still having discussions with Hackspanner about it. 🤔

[ancient geode]

it seems to happen less but after playing more it still is happening

[final raven]

Gotcha

[devout current]

nope it's not, but it apperas to happen less, at least for me

[hot fulcrum]

It is still happen to me and at least need to do once (reset count by restart client).
But only need to ask friend if they don't toggle on/off yet so bit less likely recently but no idea why it happen.

[devout current]

Yeah I my self also didn't need to do it anymore, only other people did

[ancient geode]

i wonder if as more update if it will be fixed ?

[hot fulcrum]

who knows....yet...
(I actually doing re-model to make it support IK2.0+AD and at final stage, then now I rememebr upper chest bug got fixed long back and now need to done again from blender part....oh pain be like.)

[narrow gate]

Im trying to get beta on quest and i went to the website and looked at the details of vrchat. It wont let me click version or change it or anything. I dont know what to do lol

Could someone help?

[tame pewter]

it’s not available on quest as it is mainly focused on full body tracking ik changes right now

id assume having to build for both platforms while it’s still changing would also just complicate and slow things down

[narrow gate]

Ah okay thanks

[tame pewter]

wait a bit and it’ll prolly be quest compatible before proper release

[vital inlet]

how to get ik2.0

[rich aspen]

hip doesnt track in ik beta

fine after opting out

[oak pendant]

If you can try again while using the --enable-ik-debug-logging launch option and submit your logs that would help.

[stuck coyote]

I've been using the IK beta since it first became available, I don't see any reason to go back to live version tbh

It's much better

[rich aspen]

Yeah will do when I wake up.

[scarlet pine]

when i lay down the chest will tilt to the right or left for some reason. its only with one avatar tho

any fix for that?

[iron hamlet]

I just restarted vrc+current ik-beta after the first time I tested it (worked perfectly)

but now suddenly standing & sitting modes are switched, and my avi seems to have lost its original height... seems much smoller.
aswell as it sunk into the floor...

it this a known thing yet?

did switch through all options, but no change

and vice-versa

[blazing rivet]

so i checked and the quick menu is still 10000x larger as it should and makes using this beta impossible to use, please fix the quick menu bug i miss my ik beta full body lol

this is how it looks like, also the main menu does not show if i click on the quick menu

[opal roost]

yeah the main menu is broken for me too and also my go button when im loading in is literally WAY below me and i can barely click on it(i can get a better pic later)

[patent root]

oh my gosh the way the legs folded

that’s so funny looking

[oak pendant]

If you're having issues I'll need more info. Best way is to run with the --enable-ik-debug-logging launch option and submit your logs after you have the problem

Same for @blazing rivet and @opal roost

[rugged anvil]

Do we need to buy fbt to use this?

[fathom bobcat]

No, the ik beta benefits your arms too

but obviously you'll get way more out of having fbt lol

[final raven]

You do not. ik 2.0 benefits those in 3pt as well.

[iron hamlet]

I switched from beta to release & back and the issue was gone... thx 🙂

[iron hamlet]

that happened as I was trying to get the GUI into my screenshot 💦 🤣

[ionic heron]

(to deleted message) keep discussion relevant to the channel please c:

[lethal light]

uhh......

[spark junco]

Terrible troll was terrible.

[ionic heron]

🤷 weekend moment

[short berry]

Just ran the beta, and also the latest Amethyst KinectToVR beta package for my xbox one kinect sensor, enabled the knee and elbow trackers, and the results are easily the best I've ever had, it's working amazingly.

So nice to be able to fold my arms ontop of eachother now ;D

[kind tartan]

is there a way to make the upper body less rigid when not using a chest tracker

when I rotate my hips, it seems like the spine and maybe chest are sort of locked in a straight line.

[static scroll]

Turns out that the beta breaks all the MMD worlds

[lethal light]

@kind tartan Kung gave some insight about the stiffness when I asked a little while back, but there is nothing we can do at the moment. I am hoping it does get some attention though.

[ionic heron]

I'd recommend reporting that to the canny, with some world IDs! o: https://feedback.vrchat.com/vrchat-ik-20

[static scroll]

Good point, will do

[dusk anvil]

good morning ik 2 beta

[devout current]

looks at my watch "11:15 pm"
Good night IK 2.0 Beta

XD

[dusk anvil]

i actually sent this at 1:30 in the afternoon in my timezone

youve been trolled

[marsh elm]

gamer moment

[scarlet peak]

do we know if the final build of the new ik update will have a "disable locomotion" toggle/setting?

also, why do i lag really hard while calibrating? do i need to label my trackers (i use 11-point)?

[lethal light]

ohh? you are lagging while calibrating sometimes? I am getting that too, although I thought it was because of unity being wierd with cloth components. I also have a large lag spike when loading my cloth. I might go test that on the regular build later since someone else has this issue.

and for the labeling trackers, just make sure they don't say "held in hand" or else if your controllers die one of the trackers will take its place. The rest does nothing unless that has changed recently

[scarlet peak]

i do have cloth so i wonder

yes its the cloth

[lethal light]

Have you gotten around to testing this on the live version yet?

[past spruce]

Cloth lowering your framerate significantly is not new. It happens specifically when a mesh with it is enabled by default, but disabled with toggles when you calibrate trackers. It happens since upgrade to Unity 2019.

[lethal light]

Got it, thanks!

[scarlet peak]

this is different. it's incredibly laggy, only when calibrating

i did not experience it before the ik beta and ive used the same avatar for 6 weeks+

[scarlet peak]

it happens on live

[lethal light]

wanna make a cany about that and then link it so I can vote on it?

[scarlet peak]

throw me the cany link and i will do

i have another to make as well

i cannot use either of my index controllers while having my 8 trackers labelled properly in Steam's Manage Trackers menu

the game breaks

[lethal light]

sounds lovely xD

[ivory citrus]

blinks has the chest node been reactivated? I know for a while it was deactivated.

[rustic berry]

I use my chest tracker all the time and it works fine

it was never deactivated

[rugged anvil]

Add to quest

[scarlet peak]

anyone know why i cant view my avatar stats or see my avatar in the preview window in-game? all i see is if its quest supported or not and that it's labelled "Excellent."

its only for the avatar's ive uploaded since ive switched to the ik beta

also, occasionally, this will happen after switching.

where a default version of my avatar in the motorcycle IKpose will appear in the ground

[scarlet peak]

ok update

that's the preview for the avatar in the avatar menu; it only appears when selecting an avatar from the "My Creations" tab, and only an avatar uploaded while in the beta

[harsh lagoon]

thats really odd

dont think i've ever seen that before

[unborn whale]

I've seen that when there was something funky with the action layer, like if the transitions between the initialized state and tracking state are off

[tame pewter]

the avatar preview getting stuck at 0,0,0 is usually caused by the locomotions default state not having an animation

check the first state of your locomotion layer and make sure it plays an animation, that animation is what plays in the preview

[thorn mulch]

does anyone know why my menu gets lock to a certain spot when i open it in the ik beta ?

sometimes it'll be like really far underground or smt like that

[strange quartz]

I am in the IK beta and I cant open the expression menu on any of my avatars. This happened after an avatar errored on me and reinstalling and clearing all caches did nothing.

i can open the menu leading to options, emojis, expressions etc but none of the options do anything.

it looks like i did not do the uninstall correctly so i will try that again.

[devout current]

Uninstall of what?

[golden sigil]

currently cant use the ik beta due to the fact that it wont track my hip tracker my boyfriend seems to think its due to my size as i am a large translady and the tracker is way off my hip it works in the none beta though so i have no idea what is going on

if you need me to put in a bug report i have no idea how to so let me know

[oak pendant]

You can increase the range that trackers are searched for with this launch option --calibration-range="0.6"

The default value is 0.3, I've doubled it there in that command

You can increase range further if it still doesn't work

I'm thinking I'll increase the default in the next patch to 0.6 anyway to avoid these kinds of issues for people

[golden sigil]

how do i manualy change the range ive never dont that before 😛

[oak pendant]

In your steam library, right click on VRChat and click properties

In the first tab (General) that opens up there's a textbox labeled "launch options"

paste in: --calibration-range="0.6"

[golden sigil]

oh

[oak pendant]

the 0.6 represents 0.6m radius sphere centered around a predicted location at the center of the body around where people would wear a tracking belt

or a 1.2m diameter sphere in other words

feel free to adjust the number as you feel appropriate

(That's for the hip tracker, each other tracker has its own predicted location and it's own search within a sphere of that same radius)

[golden sigil]

ok i hope that helps 🙂

thanks 🙂

ill let you know

[oak pendant]

Good luck 👍

[oak crow]

I'm having a weird issue where some avatars look fine in unity and blender, but then in vrc they're floating and my view point is off by the amount the avatar floats 👀

I'm going to assume it's related to some strange t-pose issue in unity

[narrow yew]

i don't have extra trackers yet but i'm curious, what happens when leg or arm tracker gets occluded and how disruptive does it look? or if hip tracker gets occluded while using chest tracker? every video seems to be showcasing good tracking and not when things go wrong :)

[ivory citrus]

At most, it's about as bad as when your hand loses tracking. It shoots across a room - or in the worst case (not every avatar does this) sometimes the arm will invert into the socket of the shoulder; leaving the arm inside the avatar till tracking is regained. Though, this is the result of poor avatar creation. You should rarely come across it, but closer to never.

[pure ledge]

I’d like to join the ik-2-beta to be able to use my 2 extra trackers. I have 5 total.

Can someone explain to me how I join it? Thank you!

[mossy cairn]

Steam - vrchat- properties - ik beta

[pure ledge]

Awesome. Thank you

[rustic berry]

hey Kung, do you plan on making a video explaining how to properly rig/proportion models on the VRC learning channel when the new IK is close to finished?

[prisma meadow]

please i beg

[rustic berry]

I was working on proportioning a model for someone yesterday, and we went through many many iterations

we got the upper body pretty good, but the legs were just not cooperating

[prisma meadow]

im still having issues with my torso because it seems slightly too large

[rustic berry]

swole

[devout current]

Yeah I also have a bit of an issue with my chest / spine, the IK currently doesn't like it when they have a bit of an bigger angle to them
(Kung already knows about it, but it's low priority on the list)

[dusk anvil]

explodes

[ionic heron]

bo-dip

[upbeat dew]

• For the remainder of IK2.0's beta period the --enable-ik-debug-logging option will be forced on. After IK2.0's release it will still be available via the launch option
  curious here, does it have any performance implications?

[dusk anvil]

https://tenor.com/view/house-explosion-explode-boom-kaboom-gif-19506150

[lethal light]

oof, a launch option for the tracking disconnect

[dusk anvil]

this channel every ik beta update

[oak pendant]

I know, I know, more launch options. As stated before, this is the way you can have things now instead of waiting until all UX etc is sorted out

[prisma meadow]

i love launch options

[devout current]

https://tenor.com/view/train-fart-big-cool-7days-free-chicken-big-sad-gif-22655342

[ionic heron]

probably not a notable one if at all, but your output log size will increase

[devout current]

launch option party

[lethal light]

yeah I understand, just thinking that certain things, like that, would be toggled on and off ingame depending on the situation more than a lot of the other launch options

[oak pendant]

The log is set up to not be spammy.

[upbeat dew]

👍 thank you both for the answer

[round osprey]

ik beta moment

[upbeat dew]

and thank you again for the hard work 🙏

[vital inlet]

i wanna test this version later, I had issues with my short avatars knees bending to the left

[upbeat dew]

11944 fixed that issue for me already, hopefully you can get this fixed with today's build

[oak pendant]

If you're not using measure-by-height with your actual user real height, you should be doing that too, especially for off-proportion avatars

[vital inlet]

I scaled the avatar limbs to my limbs height and use leg length for tracking, also yeah my height is mine, 5'8

[honest apex]

Bless you Kung! 🙏
Freeze launch option is great.
Quick question though, if I have multiple do I just put em in order like this?

[lethal light]

thanks for the update Kung

[oak pendant]

Yep 👍

[dusk anvil]

yeah

[devout current]

It's fine, I just really hope the UI / UX team will give you space in the Main Menu for all of this stuff once UI 2.0 comes out xD

[dusk anvil]

new main menu my beloved

[lethal light]

we need like an entire page. And it can fold out with side wings and just be littered with enough options to drive 99% of people away at a glance xD

[devout current]

VRChat's current Settings Page is just everything cluttered on to one page, UI 2.0 will hopefully split the Settings Menu up in to multiple sections and hopefully Kung gets one of these sections for his IK stuff xD

[tight aurora]

have you considered adding some temp ik2 config file or is that not an option?

[honest apex]

Lines in the already existing config.json would be fine imo~ already some hidden options in there like camera res.

[devout current]

If that's the case then I whish for one big fat reset button in case you fucked up the settings and don't know the defaults anymore.

[tardy galleon]

funnily enough I found the opposite to be true. My avatar has disproportionate/longer legs compared to human legs and I found Height Measure to overshoot when resting my leg over the other. Arm measuring seems to always be closer to accurate for avatars bought from Booth in my case

[lethal light]

couldn't there be a button (think controller binding) to reset certain defaults in the case you did not want to override everything, just the stuff that you were recently messing with. Like if you press A B at the same time while pointing at a setting it resets to default?

[prisma meadow]

measuring my height is better for proportioned avatars while arm length i better for non proportioned avis

[devout current]

From what I know they really don't want to put more stuff in the config file and have mostly everything accessible in game. That requires UI 2.0 though and until we have that Kung is just using Launch Options. (Those are also easier to access then the config file)

[tardy galleon]

thats my experience as well!

[tight aurora]

hence why i said temp.

[oak pendant]

Oop, noticed a thing that should have been in with this patch that wasn't. Freeze tracking may cause the tracker to jump around to a different tracked point

Getting a fix up quick for that

[chilly juniper]

Has anyone made a canny for spine twist when using chest trackers and you bend over looking between legs?

I'm looking thru cannys and dont see one.

Wanna double check before I make one

[prisma meadow]

I would test it out but im not flexible enough lol

[lethal light]

what is broken about it?

I can test later

[chilly juniper]

If your chest goes between your legs you get spine twist

I can make a small clip if it hasn't been made

[lethal light]

hmm...... yeah I can test in a few hours probably

[chilly juniper]

Ill make a clip real quick. Shouldn't be hard. Just don't see a canny for it.

[devout current]

random question does the --legacy-fbt-calibrait launch option even still work with the new IK?

[lethal light]

pretty sure someone was using it in the beta

[static scroll]

If anyone has the opportunity to try out a couple MMD dance worlds:
https://feedback.vrchat.com/vrchat-ik-20/p/mmd-dance-worlds-break-with-ik-2

[devout current]

I can test that in a few minutes when I'm going online

[chilly juniper]

https://gfycat.com/capitalwarmheartedgrison

showed with 2 avis

my personal avi and the nikei but the nikei was acting weirder than i expected

this is with head + hip lock

but the nikei still showed the spine twist i was talking about

[lethal light]

I see, I can look at that. Another thing could be the chest tracker just being occluded and losing tracking. I have seen some things break and act wierdly cause of this

[devout current]

Maybe record this in this world so it's easier to see how the bones are orientated
https://vrchat.com/home/world/wrld_01025423-c339-4735-8af9-ba45cc9e46f2

[chilly juniper]

Can do!

I was looking for that world but thought it was like ik test or something

[devout current]

(Also more helpful for Kung when investigating the issue)

[static panther]

Is anyone else having leg tracking issues on the beta? It seems the hips and chest work, and it recognises the leg dots when calibrating, but it's not moving the legs at all when I move them. I've confirmed that the trackers are detecting and reporting movement as expected so I was wondering if it's a beta thing.
Reverting back to the non beta returns leg function too.

[devout current]

it's pinned in this channel ^^

[chilly juniper]

yup i see that now. I was looking for the thumbnail like a dummy

thanks!

[devout current]

np ^^

[final sphinx]

damn so many updates

[oak pendant]

Make sure you accurately set your user real height

[bronze olive]

Thanks for the freeze option Kung!

[oak pendant]

You're welcome! Might want to wait about an hour before trying it though. There's currently an issue where the old bug of trackers jumping to another tracked point can happen right before it freezes (in the wrong spot)

currently getting a build out with a fix to that

probably won't add patch notes as there's no change to what was announced

[next inlet]

I've been making this tool to make launching vrchat with all the different launch arguments that were added recently faster, figured I'd share it here https://github.com/Float3/VRCLauncher (I didn't see any rules against self-advertisements in #faq so I assume this is ok)

[oak pendant]

will be build 11947

[oak pendant]

That looks useful, thanks for your efforts.

[proven forge]

is beta disconnected from live agaiN? 😳

[oak pendant]

should still be live compatible

[lethal light]

The only time the IK beta will not be live compatable is right after live updates

[bronze olive]

Is there a list somewhere of all the current launch options?

[next inlet]

https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/launch-options
https://docs.unity3d.com/2019.4/Documentation/Manual/PlayerCommandLineArguments.html

[proven forge]

i got an update 10min ago thats why i asked

[next inlet]

as for the new IK launch arguments please look at the link I posted earlier #ik-2 message it has all the IK arguments listed

[lethal light]

please read what I said

[bronze olive]

Thanks Three!

[proven forge]

oh yeah ty

[lethal light]

np

[proven forge]

where are the patch notes?

[lethal light]

like always #open-beta-announcements

[oak pendant]

Ok patch 11947 is out with the tiny fix to the freeze tracker behavior where it might jump to another tracker before freezing. You can restart steam to update again

[devout current]

(or verify the game files if you don't want to restart Steam)

Btw @oak pendant is it possible to make the Toggle FBT button not reload the Avatar? That's currently the only thing that still does that.

(other than Resetting the Avatar)

[oak pendant]

Changing between legacy and ik beta or changing avatar measure method also reloads

In theory yeah it'd be possible but pretty low priority

[devout current]

Ah yeah, I forgot about that

[oak pendant]

There are a lot of things set in different ways, so it would be a new avenue to introduce bugs, rather than having it reload without FBT

[devout current]

Ah okay, no problem leaving it as is. Was just an idea I had ^^

[strong nova]

You guys are going super hard on the IK Beta. It's been like... what? Five months since closed beta? I'm glad you're taking all feedback into consideration, and working effortlessly to make sure everything is solid for all platforms.

[devout current]

also don't forget that it's mostly (or only? not sure) just Kung working on it :p

[limpid vessel]

E

[dusk anvil]

[limpid vessel]

The plush is so cute I’m glad I got it

[final raven]

@oak pendant some additional further adjustments to auto-footstep might be needed. ^^;
I see what you did but looks like the fixes you made make the auto-footstep blend in smoothly but a lot slower, giving out that sliding feet look again. Maybe adjust the timing of the blending to be faster?
https://streamable.com/bpd6ag

Also, first few seconds of clip corrupted again, so give it a moment~

[oak pendant]

I think we'll stick with what we have for awhile. The alternative is a very obvious looking 'step-step' as the auto foot step readjusts after you stop locomotion

This is different from the old smooth hovering after stopping. Now it'll take slightly bigger and bigger steps as it blends it in, so the fully hovering time is actually short-ish

[devout current]

The dances work for me

[prisma meadow]

if i remember right apparently index controllers break them?

[devout current]

kinda

in one world they do, but in another they dont

In one world I'm also getting stuck in this lovely pose

[final raven]

I do see from the start of it that it starts as very minute steps as it blends in to larger steps, but figured I'd note it anyway. I do see why the adjustments here were made though, and I think it's starting to grow on me actually.

[devout current]

okay that's because my locomotion controller

and for some reason I now can't interact with my self anymore

even after restars

[marsh elm]

The white bits on the legs make the character look like it has gigantic balls

Sorry i had to comment 😂

[devout current]

Yeah seems like the fix has broken another thing

[clever thicket]

wahhhh

i was just about to test a thing

[devout current]

https://feedback.vrchat.com/avatar-dynamics-reports-and-feedback/p/11947-self-interaction-is-broken-after-server-side-patch-to-fix-general-interact

[clever thicket]

pog

[static scroll]

Hmm, alright thanks, maybe a recent patch helped

[lethal light]

I just tried and I couldn't find a position where my headset or some other tracker would not be occluded (only got 2 base stations and a relatively small space)

I will try again tomorrow and see if I can reproduce the issue, but you might look into occlusion because it is a large problem for wierd positions like that.

[chilly juniper]

Ah. I'm running 5 base stations with a grounded one so I shouldn't be getting occluded

[grand lynx]

Legs/hip feel a bit stiff, was struggling to get smooth hip rolls and movement in the new build. I didn't have much time to test tonight, but I will put in some time tomorrow to see if it was just me having poor tracking or the changes affected something.

From the notes only change that might affected this is the knee tracker change, but I have a longer legged avatar, not a short one.

[dusk anvil]

xsoverlay keyboard noise

[final raven]

I like my tappy taps, okay? :>

[dusk anvil]

i do too

[lethal light]

wow, ya wanna give me one xD
But I think I should be able to get it if I figure out a chin strap so I don't have to hold my headset

[dusk anvil]

those base stations can see everything

[lethal light]

I really need to get a 3rd sometime

[vestal oriole]

when you have glass floor and one is under you 🔨

[dusk anvil]

auto footstep borked on legacy ik setting

[mellow lichen]

excuse my laziness, but is it only me that when I use an emote, my avatar goes forward a bit or is this BETA thing only? default ones does same thing, but if I move, avatar goes back while continuing the animation. ex default dance loop.

[mellow lichen]

"point forward" is where it goes a bit far from original spot

[spare path]

is the ik-2 beta still a thing

or is it live

[mellow lichen]

still beta

[final raven]

Still in beta testing

[limpid vessel]

Imagine imagining how to imagine

[solar void]

is there a code or something?

[final raven]

No code is needed to join the ik-beta. It should be available to you in the drop down menu above the code box.

[solar void]

ok, thank you

[hot fulcrum]

ok,
This time, I turn on both controller first and confimed conneccted.
Then turn on rest of trackers.
but.....still recognize 1 of tracker as controller too.
huhh, strange.

[hot fulcrum]

wow, new update at this time of day.

[jade sleet]

o.O?

[oak pendant]

Another tiny change. Legacy auto footstep wasn't working. Fixed it.

[jade sleet]

self interact fixed O.o?

[hot fulcrum]

already, few hours back

[jade sleet]

ohh nice 😛

[oak pendant]

So just for a memo if people are curious why the build number increased: 11947: Fixed an issue where freezing trackers could hop to another tracked point right before freezing. 11948: Fixed legacy mode auto footstep.

[raw wadi]

Is each increment a summit?

[oak pendant]

A summit? For ik beta the build numbering has been first 4 digits are the live build, subsequent digit(s) are counting up ik beta builds based on that live build

if we somehow get to 2 more builds while live is still on 1194 the build would be 119410

[opaque tangle]

Hey has the IK Beta messed with anyone elses OSC? Especially OSCs that are working with XS Overlay?

[steel ocean]

Latest build results in odd behavior with trackers; Intermittently only trackers (not controllers or headset) will freeze position and follow head for a second or two and kick back followed by head pivoting slightly (similar to how the head shifts when going from hip to hip/head priority)

[mortal lagoon]

Mine stopped working after the patch, it seemed like. A friend was saying they were having issues too

[opaque tangle]

Glad to know its not just me

https://feedback.vrchat.com/vrchat-ik-20/p/latest-ik-beta-build-broke-osc Made a post cause i havent seen any other posts made about it

[harsh lagoon]

yeah in 3pt the way my avatar adjusts their feet position after locomoting around is very weird i much prefered it before

my avatars feet like slowly slide into position over a few seconds rather than just stepping to where they should go

[final raven]

Oh wait, just realize why mine is still working probably. I'm still on Build 11947 @opaque tangle

[opaque tangle]

Yeah i was suspecting you may of not updated yet

[final raven]

Yeah, wasn't really in a rush to update since it was just a fix for auto-footstep in legacy ik

[opaque tangle]

Seems like the fix broke something else 😔

[final raven]

The changed auto step behaviour in build 11947 does tend to make my legs do funky things sometimes I noticed, seen at 0:21 in the video~
https://streamable.com/n0icka

[devout current]

that looks really weird yeah

[lethal bridge]

latest IK beta seems to have a weird issue for certain (sized)? avatars for me. The first time calibrating in a world is completely normal. If you hit calibrate again, the avatar ends up like its pulled up to stand on its toes (and the arms can twist in calibration tpose). Anyone else notice this?

[dusk anvil]

we need big number

[devout current]

What about 119469?

[bright tartan]

so idk if im just gonna need knee trackers for this or what...
for reference im going from kneeling to trying to lay as flat as i can with my legs to my side, but it pops my knees and hip up

[dusk anvil]

epic double post moment

[bright tartan]

im on mobile -3-

you can see since im using hip and head lock the chest gets crunched even though that should be straight

any recommendations to make this look better with 6 point tracking?

[marsh elm]

11942069? 😳 👉 👈

Why was that hyperlinked lol

[devout current]

It always does that on discord mobile

It thinks it's a phone number

[dusk anvil]

im gonna call that number

nobody picked up :(

[devout current]

Sad

[final raven]

Haven't tested it yet on my end, but anyone else on build 11948 having issues with OSC in general? Multiple friends of mine for example who make use of XSO and OSC have said it just stopped working for them.

[devout current]

Yup, there is already a canny about it

[final raven]

Mmm yeah I'm aware, just checking with others.

[devout current]

https://feedback.vrchat.com/vrchat-ik-20/p/latest-ik-beta-build-broke-osc

[devout current]

Oh okay, yeah I heard from multiple people in here that OSC stopped working

[kind quarry]

So what's the ik 2 beta for

[dusk anvil]

ik 2

[kind quarry]

I don't know what what the ik 2 is

[dusk anvil]

stuff like more tracking points for full body, better auto footstep, settings in quick menu, and better shoulders.

[rustic berry]

complete overhaul of VRChat's IK, the system responsible for how your avatar moves. some of the features are:

• support for more trackers (up to 8 trackers for a total of 11pt tracking)
• calibration saving when switching avatars
• different locking modes to prioritize hips/head
• arbitrary tracker configurations (for example, you could put a single tracker on one elbow and nothing else and it would work)

[final raven]

@oak pendant apologies for the ping but I think someone should really look into this if not aware already. Can confirm OSC is no longer working for me as of build 11948

[dusk anvil]

can also confirm osc is borked

[final raven]

https://hello.vrchat.com/blog/vrchat-ik-2

Keep in mind that blog is slightly outdated by now, considering what we've got now in the ik-beta. ^^;

[plucky dawn]

Question best place to put elbow trackers no matter where I place them avatar arms are always bent a little never straight

[dusk anvil]

above joint

[rustic berry]

somewhere along your upper arm, doesn't really matter where

as for the whole bent arm thing, that is just about your avatar's proportions I find

I spent multiple hours with phia trying to get her modeled proportioned well. we got it to a point where the upper body was pretty good, but it's still not perfect. there are a lot of variables to tweak, and any change to one of them can affect a lot of other things

[plucky dawn]

I figured would playing around with in game height fix this?

[rustic berry]

it can, but it will throw off other things

it's like playing 5D chess

you can try:

• different user real heights
• height based scaling/wingspan based scaling
• tweaking the arm ratio in the launch option

speaking of which; Kung, how would I go about calculating the arm ratio given the measured wingspan/height?

[devout current]

(neck_to_hand_distance / 0.4537) + 0.005 = view_height

(if I'm not wrong)

I just took that from this post xD

[rustic berry]

head to neck or head to hand

[devout current]

the 0.4537 is the arm ratio which can be changed with --custom-arm-ratio="0.4537"

[rustic berry]

THAT's the thing I'm trying to figure out how to calculate lol

[devout current]

whops

[rustic berry]

xD

all good

[devout current]

(fixed it)

btw I have no idea where that +0.005 is coming from

[dusk anvil]

if there is an ik beta update today i will do a backflip

[devout current]

Small update on this, OSC is in fact working normally, apparently XSO has broken their OSC support.

[dusk anvil]

moment

[dusk anvil]

if an ik beta update is a release candidate this month i will do another backflip

if i wasn't able to do the first backflip i will compensate by doing two backflips

[final raven]

Not a vrchat bug this time Dvan~
https://github.com/Xiexe/XSOverlay-Issue-Tracker/issues/213

[opaque tangle]

Man I didn't even see xsoverlay update, weird

[opaque tangle]

Pog

[vital inlet]

how does the arm ratio launch option affect FBT? first ive heard of it

am interested

[quasi sable]

How's the beta going, @oak pendant? It's looking to me to be coming long real nicely!

[tame pewter]

something a bit goofy with my feet and position now in ik beta

my avatars feet still target the ground when I have tracking set to animation

and my entire body slowly moves backward once tracking is disabled

this is on live:

i guess that shift back thing still occured, but it snapped back into place after

[raw wadi]

seen to have the feet in the right place after moving.

but if the user stay in place the body pose don't reflects the animation

@tame pewter by the way. how you sync the unity and the game at the same time ?

[tame pewter]

Av3Emulator and OSC

Av3Emulator has OSC support built in, so I flipped the inbound and outbound ports around.

[tame pewter]

made quick clip comparing live and ik beta:
feet ik targets ground despite being set to animation
avatar shifts backward unlike live

[raw wadi]

seen useful. if I get time will check it. unsure. -_-

the new ik seen to update the lower body every time you move with the joystick

when you change animation but stay still it's never as accurate as after you move with the joystick

I saw the auto foot step is still present if the foot are animated

but again resolve itself if you move the joystick

https://gyazo.com/670e4a4449c8be0541b378def18508d7

[mellow lichen]

I see, so this IS BETA issue, not my avatar going brr and needs me to rework all my stuff I installed. xD
I asked if anyone had this issue, but nobody answered, had me worried it was my avatars only. x)

[final moss]

Yeah my avatars also seem to have issues playing animations in beta rn

sliding into some spot before playing

only on desktop

[grand lynx]

Hmmm, seems like my head looks fine locally in 11 point, but for other people it spins and flips if i lower my head too much in all lock. Full exorcist style. Will get someone to help with footage.

[mellow lichen]

for me the way to fix it is enabling stationary and play an animation, otherwise it drifts away.

[devout current]

Only between you and people in live or also between you and people in the IK beta?

[grand lynx]

both

[grand lynx]

Think its avatars with the old neck fix

[devout current]

hmmm maybe

[robust tangle]

running with two elbow tracking and turning them off left me with broken IK (in beta mode) and desktop mode only (in legacy mode) until I relogged. changing avatars / resetting avatars did not fix anything

hard to reproduce

could not hit recalibrate since that button goes away once you have no trackers

[oak pendant]

Were you using the --freeze-tracking-on-disconnect launch option?

[oak pendant]

(If you were using that launch option and you've removed your final trackers so the calibrate button is gone, you can force unfreeze by cycling the Measure Avatar toggle. For now that's the intended way in that specific situation)

[robust tangle]

No, these are my only start params --enable-sdk-log-levels --log-debug-levels=API

[oak pendant]

Ok, broken IK in what way? Did the elbows seems to point to frozen targets?

[robust tangle]

i'm trying to get it to happen again

elbow tracking worked fine until i decided to power them off

then I went back to "3 point" menus and such but my lower body was locked in place as I rotated around

if i turned around backwards (even using fake locomotion) my lower body would stay facing the original direction

tried changing avatars, enabling/disabling ik modes, resetting avatars, nothing fixed until a relog

[oak pendant]

Do you still have your log file from when it happened?

[robust tangle]

Is it gone since I relogged? I didn't save it

I'll try to reproduce

[oak pendant]

I think it would still be there, labeled with the time it was created

[robust tangle]

ok i'll grab it

[oak pendant]

But yeah, if you can find a way to reproduce it consistently and send a log when that's all you were doing in the session that would be helpful too

[oak pendant]

Actually, if you're gonna test something. I should probably get the patch I have queued up out

[final raven]

👀

[oak pendant]

Build 11949 - Fixed an issue where AV3 tracking control: "animate foot" wasn't properly disabling auto footstep.

[robust tangle]

This seems to be the steps according to my log, I'll try and see if it happens consistently:

1.) Setup elbow-only tracking and calibrate.
2.) Hit the re-calibrate button.
3.) Do not re-calibrate, disable trackers and trigger automatic avatar reload.
4.) Now in weird IK behavior state, lower body / chest not updating in beta IK, and visually "desktop mode" while in legacy IK

[dusk anvil]

tfw on ik beta when i use a pose from the laysit prefab i have my avatar starts floating into the air like this meme

https://tenor.com/view/fly-flying-guy-fly-guy-flying-guy-gif-19679157

and then does the sitting animation

gonna try and get a video of it

[dusk anvil]

i suspect it's something related to this

[oak pendant]

Ah, interesting yeah the per-tracker ik switching doesn't take into account if there's an active calibration in progress... and it probably should.

[oak pendant]

Yeah, that should be fixed in the last update (as of a few minutes ago)

[dusk anvil]

this proceeds to get more true by the day

[dusk anvil]

ur doin great

[oak pendant]

Thanks! That bug wasn't reported on Canny though, so it never existed. So if it never existed did I actually fix anything? (/jk)

[dusk anvil]

wasn't about to report a bug for something only my avatar has

not yet anyways

had to see if other users had it

[oak pendant]

Ah yeah, this post made it pretty clear exactly what the issue was.

I'm just joking around though, but gotta put in the reminder that people can't always rely on us reading everything in discord (even though I do read everything in this channel)

[dusk anvil]

that's the one

at least i think it is

gotta test today to be sure

[dusk anvil]

you should add the ability to switch between legacy ik and beta ik on desktop

that'd make stuff easier i think

[oak pendant]

It doesn't keep the switch between legacy and beta underneath with a hidden button or anything, it's just always new ik when in desktop even if your setting is saved as legacy

[dusk anvil]

butwhy.wav

[oak pendant]

almost no difference between them and so haven't done support/testing on legacy behavior in desktop mode. And the button lives in the vr config tab, so it would have to take up a whole row just to have the toggle in desktop

[dusk anvil]

alrigh

[dusk anvil]

just tested, it worketh.

instead my hip shifts forward a bit when moving around while using a lay/sit emote, but it looks funny and i like it

if it aint broke dont f ix

comical

[rancid glen]

weird, desktop IK jumps in almost instant now and does it smoothly too without any cuts or jumps nice... but on 3p VR the avatar now very slowly transitions to foot IK over like 4-5 seconds...

[mellow lichen]

I kinda noticed it, but didn't mind it. xD

[undone plinth]

Smh channel still open

[tame pewter]