#ik-2

1 messages · Page 13 of 1

oak pendant
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right now it might motivate people to do a bunch of avatar tweaks for things that are still in flux

brazen condor
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Ultimately its kinda pointless until things are more solid

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Between IK update, Avatar dynamics, the VRC world is getting rocked atm

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Oh and OSC too

maiden rock
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generally a lot of the finer detail on correct avatar setup is found between discord channels, youtube videos and word of mouth, so definitely something that would be nice to see later

oak pendant
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Yeah, the FBT best practices doc will definitely need an overhaul for IK2.0

brazen condor
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I think diagrams like the ones you made (In blender with proportions) will be the most useful

oak pendant
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though in most cases a lot of "it must be this way" is not longer needed. There's been an effort to support more rig types

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But there might still be things like "please don't put your hip bone upside down" that resurface through development

carmine gate
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rotates hip bone 90deg on the X axis

rustic berry
maiden rock
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stuff that can definitely help those of us who make perfect fit avatars to irl body

brazen condor
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d_d' yah due to the fact legacy content exists odd edgecases like that will always exist

maiden rock
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if i made my avatar any more accurate, I'd be going down the hospital for an xray to get proper bone lengths

marsh elm
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now here is an interesting 2022 business proposal

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xray scan based avatar creation

oak pendant
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Even with that, anatomical bone pivot isn't as simple as* the unity humanoid rig unfortunately 😔

maiden rock
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MRI to Avatar

brazen condor
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Xrays don't give percise measurements they do give precise ratios

raw wadi
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In 3d, bone are place in the center of the mass

maiden rock
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what a way to unfunny a comment glitchy

marsh elm
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isnt ratios exactly what we want?

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few people have an actual average human-sized avatar :P

brazen condor
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To a degree but an X-ray isn't what you'd want, a full body scan

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Since an single x-ray can't get the whole body realistically

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(There exists full body x-rays but that's much rarer nowadays)

maiden rock
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yeah so someone needs to get some venture capital for MRI to Avatar, quick pop in booth, and out pops a rig in .fbx in 10 minutes whilst you get a coffee

brazen condor
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I do agree that my ratio comment was incorrect, since really the precise size isn't as problematic

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I could swear there is some sort of 3d scanning tech that could give you rough topological data

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I mean it wouldn't give you texture but eh

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Better than phototography

maiden rock
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and you have to get it done again a year later when you lose a few microns

copper trench
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even then, you forgot to account for how your natural muscle tone changes throughout the day and could have further consequences on proportionality

brazen condor
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I think the steam tracking isn't that accurate

brazen condor
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But also I realized we have gotten wildly off topic my bad

maiden rock
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out of curiosity, what's the origin point of the tracked position of the HMD in Unity

copper trench
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there's a thread on that in the oculus forums

polar matrix
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anyone having problems updating there vrchat im on the ik beta and it says im missing file privileges

short knot
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long title damn

copper trench
coral cairn
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dev immersive scaler zip for people who want to play around with custom scales
I end up tweaking something with imscale every update so if you use this version plan to keep updating until the beta is stable.
Regardless, let me know if you have any issues with stability or bugs.

📎 immersive_scaler.zip
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Tweak the 'Custom Arm Ratio' button to get it where you want, or just hit the button on the right to get your current ratio

copper trench
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yo! i've been wondering why something like that doesn't exist

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ty ❤️

carmine gate
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I just want the blender theme

coral cairn
carmine gate
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thanks
lmao its called amethyst

oak pendant
strong sundial
polar matrix
raw wadi
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Soo the auto footstep is back to 1 second before kicking in or there an actual blending now?

oak pendant
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in beta mode?

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that should have only applied to legacy, I did that as a bit of a quick fix so I may have made a mistake there though

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in legacy it's just supposed to behave as it always had before IK2.0

raw wadi
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It was a just a question.

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Is there a plan to smooth the transition when passing Upright 0.65 ?

oak pendant
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Oh, haha thought I messed something up, yeah legacy was trying to blend faster but didn't have other elements to support it, so the fix is to make legacy as legacy should (pre IK2.0)

dusk anvil
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woo yea g annoucnentn

oak pendant
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Yeah, it needs more tuning for the beta mode of the fast blend. It should vary the blend speed probably based on the current state

dusk anvil
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sick birthday gift vrchat team

raw wadi
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As for now, or always in 3.0, I don't feel a blend . It's on or off. So it snap

oak pendant
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There are some other reasons that it might need to snap, some things need to be reset after a locomotion, the behavior there may be polished further though, but it's medium-low priority

raw wadi
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The only way to have a smooth transition is to spam the pose space in desktop. VR idk

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But you get up and down camera

oak pendant
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Ah I see what you're doing there, yeah smooth camera motion like that by default is a no-go probably for motion sickness concerns

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It's not that it can't be done but some things need to be implemented to handle what you see while some other important things are reset. As usual can't go into internal details

tranquil cipher
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oh yeah I have mine set up to spam pose space so that I can see where my avatar is when setting the position.

oak pendant
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In general I think locomotion could use a larger polish pass, but for IK2.0 I want to settle for "as good as legacy" in most cases so we can move forward on other features

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it's not meant to be a locomotion focused update

tranquil cipher
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I haven't seen any regressions at least with the things I'm doing yet

raw wadi
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I was referring of the auto-footstep Snap that occur when stand still in desktop. Somehow spamming pose space and going prone/crouch/stand/walk stop. You won't experience that snap. But that just work around that bring it's on problem.

tranquil cipher
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oh, you're spamming pose space during normal locomotion?

raw wadi
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I test that

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But don't do it.

tranquil cipher
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understandable

raw wadi
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I think you still crash if you unload a scene while you spam it.

lost nacelle
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Does the addition of shoulder tracking mean that you can now approximate the chest rotation without a chest tracker?

final raven
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Oh wait... so you can enter just about any custom value besides the two into the launch option?

oak pendant
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Yep, it's not in docs yet, but it accepts between 0.3 and 0.6

lost nacelle
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That's definitely something to play with

final raven
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Gotcha, what does higher and lower values entail exactly?

oak pendant
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Yeah, hopefully people can dial in on what's best for them individually, still though scale by height is the simplest way if your avatar's feet rigging handles it well

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higher values is larger avatar, so looser arms, lower value, smaller avatar, tighter arms

lost nacelle
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If you got time, could you address the chest tracking question as well? I'm curious if it was considered

lost nacelle
oak pendant
# lost nacelle Does the addition of shoulder tracking mean that you can now approximate the che...

Potentially, there's a risk that IK driven chest rotation from the shoulder info could serve to only dampen the apparent angle of shoulder deflection, because it's always dependent on it. But as the beta goes on there will be iterative improvement on IK solving, if this seems useful in experimentation it might become part of the IK solution. I can think of a few ways that info could likely be applied to the chest. But can't make any promises on stuff until after the experimentation stage

rustic berry
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should livestream working on this 😄

lost nacelle
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Still, it's good to know that it can potentially work. Thank you!

rustic berry
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probably not possible due to the risk of confidential data being accidently shown, but it would be cool nonetheless lol

oak pendant
teal pier
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No, nothing of mine has broken. But i am an avatar creator and was in VC with a few other creators and they all told me that when the update happens, every single avatar made with twistbones will break and that i will have to body swap all my old avis on gumroad because of it. I am just asking here to fact check that cause it seems incorrect. I feel like devs wouldnt make an update that would break every single avatar in existence that has twistbones in it.

lost nacelle
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I know there are conflicts between chest tracking and the way most armatures are implemented, so if there's a roundabout way to at least apply vertical rotation to the upper torso that's going to be insanely helpful

rustic berry
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twist bones simply rely on constraints to make them rotate a certain amount based on the wrist's rotation

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that is not something that a new IK would mess with

oak pendant
teal pier
tranquil cipher
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you do know it's an open beta so you can try it out, right?

lost nacelle
tranquil cipher
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nobody's going to try your avatars for you

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twitch plays VRChat source code 🤣

oak pendant
teal pier
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I am just fact checking someone elses claims. Dont shoot the messenger 😅

oak pendant
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Nah, I observed the kind of issues you described, it was a little rare and only affected rotation constraints. It should be fixed now, but if it's not have the people who had issues post on canny about it

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Actually, there might have been an existing post, I should tell those people to check in the current build if I can find it

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should have been fixed as of 1 or 2 updates back actually

teal pier
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Will do, thank you ^-^ i told them not to worry.. i was like naaah i trust the devs will figure it out, it will be fine. Glad I was right

oak pendant
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Yeah, managed to figure it out, but it was thanks to people reporting it. My avatar uses twist bones too, but I use aim constraint instead of rotation constraint, so my twist bones never broke. So I'm glad those people didn't just trust that I'd figure it out haha

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So far I've only had one person with broken twist bones confirm it's fixed though, so have them test it out and report on canny if it's still not working like on live

rustic berry
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using aim constraint? how do you have that setup?

teal pier
oak pendant
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We used to use the domain vrchat.canny.io so it was clearer at that time what was meant by "canny" kind of stuck calling it that even though it's not visible in the domain now so yeah, confusing

real bane
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i am in vr, this change to the arm ratio is very good

oak pendant
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nice

real bane
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for me 0.415 is good

oak pendant
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Do you happen to have your controllers paired with vive dongles?

vital inlet
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just double checked

oak pendant
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Ok, in any case I've seen this appear as a steamvr level issue. If you rotate 360 IRL you may find that some other orientations in your room cause the other arm to have slack

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The best mitigation I've found is to have the arms even more slightly too short so that they don't spend much time hanging out in the just starting to bend zone

vital inlet
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okay; very interesting.. will play around with steamvr a bit i suppose

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thank you for the tip

oak pendant
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It may be the case that it's the hip tracker causing the off center behavior too

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If you have a tundra tracker dongle you could try pairing to that, I've heard it's the vive tracker dongle that can cause the issue

vital inlet
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Ok i am using 3.0 right now, will try 2.0. dont have tundras yet.

oak pendant
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A good way to test for IRL space offset is to hold the tracked device against the headset, pressed against it so it's rigidly fixed

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then spin in space and see if the clipping plane area that clips into the tracked device dips in and out (and by how much) as the device orbits in a little circle around it's true position

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the size of the orbit will show you how far it's offset

vital inlet
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wow okay, i have definitely seen that b4 yea

oak pendant
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Yeah, nothing we can really do about that on vrc end, at least nothing that would be practical

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But if you're trying out different dongles etc that's what to look for

rustic berry
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check for any reflections in the room

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and perhaps redo room setup

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things like mirrors, glass PC side panels, glossy plastics

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all can fuck with lighthouse tracking

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also heard that other sources of IR light, such as some LED strips, can also cause issues

oak pendant
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I've personally experienced the issue appear with the same device on vive tracker 2.0 dongle, and then track correctly when repairing the same device to a tundra tracker dongle

vital inlet
oak pendant
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Seems like a firmware update from HTC might be needed, if it's not an unsolvable hardware issue with those dongles

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but I haven't done in depth testing, I only tried it out after hearing about it in this discord, and was able to confirm

vital inlet
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Just so i understand: the IK uses the hip position to help determine the centerline of the avatar?

oak pendant
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It uses the head when in calibration (if you don't use legacy calibrate)

vital inlet
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(i use legacy usually, but this occurs with both)

oak pendant
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Yeah it wouldn't make much difference I think

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the main point would be that you'd bind your hip to the tracker's position, then rotate in your room and the tracker would have a small playspace offset matching to it's point in the orbit around the true position

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if you bind your hip to one side of that orbit, then turn 180, the offset may be perceptible

vital inlet
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ic okay

oak pendant
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which would cause a slant in the IK as it's trying to get the hip to go to the slightly offset tracker position, yeah

gaunt cypress
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Is it geenreally a proportion issue on the avatar if, when platnarflexing my feet with tracker on foot, the knee is moved quite significantly despite having a knee tracker in place and not moving the knee?

oak pendant
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If you have a knee tracker, it's a proportion issue yeah

gaunt cypress
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thanks!

teal pier
oak pendant
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If the avatar knee doesn't align with IRL, which I've found is pretty rare unless extra care is taken, then the avatar's knee will point toward the knee tracker's location, but due to trigonometry will always end up in a position different from your real knee.

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Or in other words, the foot and* hip tracking will always take priority over the knee tracking

gaunt cypress
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that makes sense - I will have to try to make a better proportion because its right that the knee isnt precise on my avatar

summer garden
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Is there a specific or best way to determine what the "Arm scale" of an avatar is? for that new "Custom arm ratio" launch command, assuming I dont misunderstand that as arm length?

robust tangle
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It's not something you should really be changing unless you fully understand what it does. It is not to set a specific arm length. It is to set the ratio of whatever real life height setting you have set to what it guesses is your arm length

summer garden
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Ahhh I see

dusk anvil
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sick avatar

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(that is the best avatar from the dynamics world im happy its a thing)

final raven
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--custom-arm-ratio="0.43435" <--- Curious if anyone who was having issues with the legacy arm scaling before wants to give this a try. This is the median value between 0.415 & 0.4537 so maybe a good middle ground?

robust tangle
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Ah, the middle ground, where everyone is halfway upset

final raven
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Testing it out a bit myself and seems fine so far :v
Curious to see how others find it as well.

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Messed around with 0.415 and did notice how my main avatar's arms locked too early and 0.4537 where my arms just barely locked when my IRL arms were fully extended.

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Will need to mess around with it more~

dusk anvil
coral cairn
coral cairn
summer garden
oak pendant
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Middle is what I use

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Whatever works to avoid occlusion and move with the humerus bone

hot dagger
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hello, question. is it possible to use the arm trackers on their own, without using a fullbody tracking setup?
does it only add extra trackers on top of the existing fullbody, or can i mix and match which trackers to use?

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(i want more accurate hand movement without the need to put trackers on my feet is what i mean)

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ok, judging by the fact theres a canny post about this, im guessing this isnt possible, which is strange. why not let us choose between lower body tracking and upper body tracking?

mild furnace
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@oak pendant would it be possible to add some sort of image that shows a humanoid with optimal tracking positions points marked on the docs page? (I can make a canny for it too)

Something like this

IMG_4124.png
final sphinx
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who needs ik

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just get 500 tundras and glue them to your skin

final sphinx
carmine gate
hollow sigil
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Fuck that, Upload your brain INTO A tundra tracker

devout current
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The TundraBrain

devout current
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Btw Kung the eyes moving upwards while walking has been fixed. But I still experience the issue of my closed eye animation not really closing my eyes when laying down. They still fully close while standing or sitting down, just not when I lay down.

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(They close fully in all of these cases with the old IK)

maiden rock
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@oak pendant can we get the vrchat tpose animation available in the SDK so we can use that for making scripts to provide exact head bone root to wrist bone root length

tawdry glen
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Isn't that just proxy_tpose? That's in the SDK.

maiden rock
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Apparently it's not quite the same

maiden rock
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Also how do we determine the hmd origin position that vrc/unity uses for tracking, is it inside the display panel/frunk or an arbitrary position within the straps for the centre mass of the head, and do different model hmds report this differently back to SteamVR

coral cairn
maiden rock
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I think getting that right, especially for how far forward or back from 0 we go for rotation when looking up or down will be great

coral cairn
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Out of curiosity do you use legacy calibration?

maiden rock
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Yep

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But getting head calibrated with the newer method exactly matching up the descriptor position to the hmd will be a good argument for me moving back

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And if the offset is ever so slightly different depending on hmd model, will be useful to know

coral cairn
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I wonder if thats the cause of your avatar going up and down when you look up and down. Like if it's the right distance from the neck joint it shouldn't move? Either that or it doesn't rotate any spaces when calibrating and just uses the position. If that's the case I still don't trust myself to not look up by a cm and screw it all up.

maiden rock
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Working out the relationship between the hmd origin point, the avatar descriptor and your head bone rotation vrcAevSlap

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I feel like I should have been asking this question 4 years ago

coral cairn
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mhm. Accuracy has mattered a lot more over time for me.

harsh lagoon
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I'm still experiencing this weird issue, dont think it's been addressed or maybe i forgot

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happens when standing and when crouching

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Basically when sticking hand out in front of me towards my center, the elbow/shoulder will fling upwards, the lower i point my hand the more intense it is

oak pendant
harsh lagoon
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ah oki thank you kungfu

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🥰

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are you sure this is the canny for this though? i'm seeing the original poster reply saying that it was fixed already

cursive juniper
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Where do elbow trackers go?

tiny token
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tonsils

cursive juniper
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If I put my arms by my side, my elbows are way out

rustic berry
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they should go somewhere between your elbow and shoulder

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Kung wears theirs about halfway, I typically had mine a bit closer to the elbow

maiden rock
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Above the elbow and below the bicep, orientate them so they stick out directly away from your forearm when bent at a 90 degree angle

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This will give it the most amount of "travel" for accuracy of smaller movement

oak pendant
harsh lagoon
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alrighty i'll leave it to that one then yes

maiden rock
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It's also quite easy not to hold your elbows up at the correct angle to match your avatar position during calibration, a common issue when finding your avatar elbows stick out too far when your arms are against your sides

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Matching the slight bend in the avatar arms helps here, ensuring your elbow is correctly rotated

hot grotto
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i appreciate the ability to shrug 🙂

surreal gorge
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I feel like a visualization of where on the upper arm to place the tracker might be good.

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I'm very likely to put it too high if I go 10-point.

real bane
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So far from testing last night, the addition to change ratio really helps with arm scaling. Shoulder does move as my trackers are in the location mentioned by the patch notes. My movements are super natural now. Feels even more like I am in game. 10 point tracking so good at least for me now. More testing and dancing tonight for sure!

robust tangle
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the new shoulder tracking is REALLY making me wish we had a 5-point tracking mode for head + hands + upper arms

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5 point isn't used for anything else at the moment, so it could be safely assumed, right?

glossy sphinx
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How do you get the beta access code to unlock the ik-beta?

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nvmnd

maiden rock
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we can call it Meta mode

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Why bother with legs when you can track half body even better

copper trench
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idk if it did anything, but it didn't break anything

robust tangle
maiden rock
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Depends if the elbows moved when rotating the wrists

copper trench
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wasn't using actual wrist straps so didn't test much

robust tangle
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forearm tracking isn't even supported in the first place regardless

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I just want the elbows you get with 8 point to be supported alone without any other body trackers :p

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I have the trackers sitting right here but I can't because i need 7 instead of 2

maiden rock
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Yeah that's Meta mode, half body with elbows, it would be interesting to make that a thing

robust tangle
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lower body IK is fine

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I just want accurate arms

final raven
dark silo
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there should be a special loading screen image for when you have 7+pt tracking that showcases similar information

robust tangle
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bending your elbow should not move the upper arm tracker at all

surreal gorge
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Mmm.

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I kinda wish they still had the SW7 for sale, on that note.

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I really liked the idea of the end-all be-all dongle but it's just the SW3 and 4. I got the 3 in my index frunk and it's so much nicer than three separate dongles.

robust tangle
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I find just above the bicepts works so flexing your arm doesn't move the tracker as much lol

wet gorge
marsh elm
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I bought the sw4 on release and they haven't given me a peep about status on shipping 😂

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I need me dongle

ionic heron
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huehue dongle

empty solar
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I wonder if in the future we could have 2 hip tracker support

empty solar
subtle arrow
vital inlet
empty solar
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More accurate hip tracking and to prevent tracking scuff. For example, I have my hip tracker in the front of my body. If I bend over the tracking will just poof. If I had a tracker on my back it'd help out a bit

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Until the day where we have a SteamVR Tracker that is literally a belt that doesn't need any orientation

subtle arrow
empty solar
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I've been pondering on whether to get the HarutoriX or not. Because ngl I'm honestly tired of tracking skuff

vital inlet
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This IK beta works great even with regular 6 point FBT using the Xbox 360 kinect with Driver4VR on Steam. Using this beta actually greatly improved the tracking/posture on 3 of my avatars.

empty solar
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5 pt?

vital inlet
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headset, controllers, and feet, and a virtual hip so technically 6 point

subtle arrow
zenith glacier
loud patio
zenith glacier
coral cairn
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I've never actually gotten 3.0's working with my sw7, they just fail to pair.

gaunt cypress
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SW7 works just fine for me, no problems pairing, tracks better than what I had in separate dongles (maybe some usb ports are better than others?). I have noticed, though, that vive 2.0 trackers don't want to pair with anything but their native dongle very readily.

rustic berry
zenith glacier
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i mean, i dont mind how it is for me now. using the 2.0 trackers for dancing (coverage is a lot better in regards of them being seen from my 4 base stations) and the tundras for chilling 😄

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so they arent used at the same time anyway 🤷‍♀️

rustic berry
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I mean if you have 4 base stations, tundras should have no issues tracking

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their smaller size and lower weight should make them better for dancing, no?

zenith glacier
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if you move your arm too close to your body i immediately loose tracking, since the index controller not that tiny

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same with the tundras on the feet, if you crawl and have them not positioned sideways, your feet cover them completely

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of course it depends on what you are doing, for my use case during dancing its an issue that appears quicker. 2.0s are not braindead safe in that manner, the possibility of them being covered up by myself is just less due to their size

marsh elm
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listen to me: dinner plate sized trackers

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it'll sell millions

rustic berry
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have you considered mounting a base station low to the ground? kek

marsh elm
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i done that, its good

zenith glacier
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they are all mounted to the ceiling xD

marsh elm
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just afraid of kicking it

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so i screwed it to the underside of a table lol

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cant be losin sight of me feet now

zenith glacier
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dunno if one positioned at the ground would help me at my 4m x 3m play space with couches in it i tend to jump on 😄

marsh elm
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put one on the couch

zenith glacier
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hell no O_O

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thats how i use my 2.0s on my feet, i can literally turn my foot up side down and still get some contact with the base stations xD

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and looking at their size difference one can imagine that they are slightly more prone to be covered up by accident :p

grand lynx
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shoulders arent what i was expecting

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love the option to set our arm scaling though, ty

celest prairie
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I didn't have that problem with the shoulders until today. Was there a new update to ik2 beta?

surreal gorge
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I'm hearing Japanese users talk about how the addition of shoulder tracking, in a sense, is going to affect their model making, and how many may have to account for that.

robust tangle
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I know many avatars have pretty terrible shoulder rigging and aren’t going to survive more animated shoulders very well

grand lynx
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yeah my booth models dosamething

surreal gorge
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I'm going to assume there'll be an option for that, which would be appreciated.

grand lynx
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hope so

surreal gorge
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That's kinda what it sounds like at the moment, but I lack the hardware for it to test.

robust tangle
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I don’t think there was anything today

grand lynx
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i love that we can set custom arm scaling, huge kudos for that

surreal gorge
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I'm only relating a bunch of Japanese authors I follow looked at Hai's tweet testing a model with shoulder tracking after fixing the armature and they're all basically going "Dang" while also wondering how destructive the update would be to their existing models.

celest prairie
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oic there was an update last night

robust tangle
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If you have upper arm trackers they will now track your position and rotation of upper arms, meaning you also indirectly control shoulder rotation

robust tangle
celest prairie
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I have my trackers right above the elbow in the upper arms

robust tangle
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Should be fine you just don’t want it to move when your elbow bends

grand lynx
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with

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tested above and below elbow and on

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all same

grand lynx
maiden rock
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Sounds like they need to weight paint their models properly

grand lynx
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these are mine, most booth models are the same too

rustic berry
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either that or perhaps the shoulder rig is odd

maiden rock
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👀

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I can see this becoming another "and this is why we can't have nice things" issue where the majority have issues

grand lynx
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im not complaining, im just demonstrating what ive run into

maiden rock
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Aye

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Are these avatars mmd world compatible?

grand lynx
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i can test

maiden rock
#

Whenever I rig my avatars I extensively tested it in the old mmd worlds to check weight painting, which was far more demanding than just fbt

#

I strived for more accurate height based scaling today with the IK beta, based on the origin point of the valve index in SteamVR

grand lynx
#

height based scaling shrinks the world scale

#

i prefer arm scale

maiden rock
#

I've gone stupid levels of custom fit

#

👍

grand lynx
#

will test tomorrow

#

well works better

#

itstill droops a lot

maiden rock
#

I'm optimistic you'll get to the bottom of it

grand lynx
#

bones notthe problem it seems, works flawlessly in mmd world

#

avatar it doesnt happen on cant shrug shoulders either

#

hmmm

maiden rock
#

If the rotation and weights are ok, there could be some strange requirement for the shoulder IK behaviour

#

We might know more once more people provide feedback of what rigs work and what has issues

grand lynx
#

same on arm scale and height scale

#

pretty confident in weights

maiden rock
#

Looks good

#

I ran out of time to test tonight, but I can also provide feedback tomorrow 6pm gmt

grand lynx
#

yeah, bit stumped. any avatar its nots happening on, the shoulders barely move

maiden rock
#

Might be worth playing around with lock positions

#

Hips, head, both

#

Try the 30 degree lean forward with the neck before locking to head etc, try legacy calibration, old, new, specific scaling ratios... the fun of testing :)

grand lynx
#

same on all3

robust tangle
# maiden rock

Wait Doesnt real life light want your traditional height not your view distance height

maiden rock
celest prairie
carmine dune
#

whats the code for open beta

#

i mean ik beta

rustic berry
#

you just click the dropdown and pick the beta you want to use

carmine dune
#

oh because for steam you have to enter a beta access code

rustic berry
#

no, you do not

#

did you look at the option above the code field?

carmine dune
#

no

rustic berry
carmine dune
#

yea then code

rustic berry
#

no, there is no code

#

you select the beta, and the game should immediately begin updating

carmine dune
#

oh so just press check code with nothingor what

#

oh

#

ok

strong sundial
#

The code thing is a seperate option. Just read what it says

#

The code is only for private betas, this is a public one

carmine dune
#

yea now its called vrchat brackets ik beta

raw wadi
#

What the number

carmine dune
#

what

#

?

raw wadi
#

The number

rustic berry
#

what number

carmine dune
#

if you mean the code theres no code

rustic berry
#

^

raw wadi
#

There none

rustic berry
#

yea I just explained that

raw wadi
#

Just drop down the menu

rustic berry
#

I think you forgot to scroll down til the end of the convo before typing lol

#

and didn't see what was said after they initially asked their question

raw wadi
#

I know

raw wadi
#

Shouldn't the chest rotate when looking around when in a seat ?

maiden rock
#

had a brief moment before leaving for work to jump on, so far so good, but there's definitely a sloping effect in play here based on a certain position of the elbows in relation to the controllers

maiden rock
#

Using height based scaling and only elbows in addition to the regular FBT setup

tiny token
#

Uncanny

prisma meadow
#

looking at that ive just realized how much of a difference eye and face tracking makes

maiden rock
#

I don't have it connected :o

#

Making good blendshapes for the blink/down/up makes a decent difference I find

#

E.g. the top eyelid should close slightly when looking down

pulsar mulch
#

How do I adjust the arm scaling launch option?

compact crystal
#

would this be the right channel regarding bugs with the ik?

#

currently going prone height in full body would turn on my desktop prone animation

unknown.png
#

only started happening after the shoulder tracking update

devout current
grand lynx
#

Yeah there is definitely some weird drooping going on with the shoulders as Towneh and myself have found. We have done a bunch of testing and it doesn't seem to be the bones or weight paint. Still not sure what is going on

silent surge
#

XD I like it

maiden rock
#

Hoping to see more people get consistent experience with the shoulder flop

#

So we can see a similar pattern of behaviour over multiple rigs that needs adjusting

carmine gate
#
  1. shoulders are jank af
  2. most vrchat-intended models/avatars do not have properly weightpainted shoulders, and a lot of people get models comm'd where they dont even get the model files, and its just uploaded to their account. (unrelated but I wish bad things upon those that do sell models like this, upload it to their account sure, but give em the freakin files too.)
  3. there needs to be a toggle turn shoulders off
  4. the arm scale fine-tuning should stay, but become a textbox and let the user input a value. Considering the current VRChat input with the keyboard, and that a numerical up/down like for height would be atrocious for a precise number like that, the best would be to show the current value, then have a reset value button and enter value button, and upon validating with the vrchat keyboard, just do input sanitization to make sure its actually a properly formatted number within the range, if not, put back the original value as it was before editing it.
devout current
#

Now also go and make cannys about that :p

carmine gate
#

it's funny, I actually find arms in legacy IK way WAY better, I always found VRChat's supposedly jank IK better than every other game, I would load into VirtualMotionCapture, Cluster, VirtualCast, e.t.c. and the arms would always just feel really weird there, like they were focused on movement realism instead of keeping your hands lined up with the controllers.

IK Beta feels like that movement realism stuff, and it's now a fight with the arm scale to get it to be just right. The arm scale value is important, but it really needs to be adjustable in-game because rebooting the whole game each time you tweak the value is quite something.

#

I honestly could not give two shits if the arm does a movement that would be impossible IRL, because it's not real life, and the old way just feels more "right"

robust tangle
#

I don't understand why all of my avatars crouch slightly when in head lock mode

carmine gate
#

Oh, you mean in 3-point? I actually got that bug at some point, but I wasnt able to reproduce it, no matter how many times I clicked standing then back to seated, the avatar was still slightly crouching by like a foot

#

switching the scale method and back fixed it

tawdry nymph
maiden rock
#

I'll check canny when I'm home later and see if anyone's already created one about the shoulder flop

tawdry nymph
#

Right Shoulder (Front view | Rear view):

unknown.png
#

Chest:

maiden rock
#

Half the trick to weight painting is getting the bones in the right position, before going in and correcting

tawdry nymph
#

(Arm is untouched)

#

Here's how I've done mine to reach the result in my video, there's a lot of room for improvement

carmine gate
#

why is it not symmetrical?

tawdry nymph
#

however I feel like I am getting satisfactory results with that setup

tawdry nymph
carmine gate
#

back of the neck

unknown.png
#

at this point, this kind of discrepancy is inconsequential, but it still makes me die a little inside

maiden rock
#

Right handed weight bias

tawdry nymph
#

hmm not sure what happened there

copper trench
#

pro-tip: turn wireframe on when weight painting to make it way easier.....each vertex gets assigned a weight and the "paint" spreads from there

tawdry nymph
#

also when I changed the bone position in Blender, I had to go to the FBX in Unity, set the avatar to Generic, apply, and back to Humanoid (and then unassign the Jaw bone) to fix the shoulder bones in-game, but I think people already know that though

maiden rock
#

Half opacity of weights colours in weight paint mode is also nicer to work with I find

zenith glacier
#

other question:
i know that this leg setup is something that the ik probably doesnt expect. It works almost fine until the point where i kneel down, then the legs fold itself pretty hard. Anyone might have an idea how to work around that?

unknown.png
tranquil cipher
#

generally people do digitigrade by having a straight invisible leg and then they use constraints to move the visible leg how they want

zenith glacier
#

time to get into that then i guess 🥲

rustic berry
#

pretty sure I saw a video version of it too

robust tangle
robust tangle
mild furnace
craggy hazel
#

Image can be altered to suit this, @robust tangle, it wasn't meant to be the final image.

tiny token
tawdry nymph
#

no it's not normalized

tiny token
#

Generally is it good to normalize? I’m pretty new to WPing

#

Also your tools are the f-ing best

#

How is the new blendshape tool so much faster

onyx onyx
#

Hey, so I recently got a index kit and 3 trackers to work with. I'm more interested in experimenting with trackers on my elbows and still one on my hips, is this possible now? also how do I set up the trackers? does steam vr automatically pick them up?

tawdry nymph
rustic berry
onyx onyx
#

imsdad

#

SAD

rustic berry
#

be sure to have your controllers turned on first, and to use the usb extensions and the cradles for the dongles

#

space them out a few inches to a foot

onyx onyx
#

thanks for the response as well~

#

okay!

robust tangle
#

Although this one requests a hip I would actually like to just skip hip tracking entirely and have upper body only because I sit

#

I suppose that’s where a chest tracker would come in

tiny token
#

206-point tracking

dusk anvil
#

f e a r

robust tangle
dusk anvil
#

fuck it

#

individual nerve tracking

robust tangle
#

I think 206 was because that’s how many bones are in a body right

dusk anvil
#

yea

tiny token
grand ether
#

Does shoulder tracking work without legs and hip tracking?

broken lichen
tiny token
#

I wanna see this

image0.gif
maiden rock
#

I do think that elbows only is only a result of issues with the shoulder tracking IK, fix one and the other probably becomes moot

#

it tracks the shrug movement very well, when you raise both the controller and the elbow up, but it seems to have issues with the resting position of the shoulder bones and/or when the arms is raised up but not fully extended, as if its being too aggressive in dropping the shoulders back down.

prisma meadow
#

with the new update my shoulders are bending down way too much. whats the fix for this?

unknown.png
lunar patrol
#

I cant stand locomotion animations. Why cant that be an option to turn off when using FBT?

deft spruce
lunar patrol
#

Only on models you own? Or have to request the creators todo it I guess.

#

I guess I wish it was more of a personal choice rather than the Creator's.

past spruce
minor rampart
#

Other times I want it disabled (like when sitting)

woven gulch
#

Avatars that have Gogo Locomotion controllers have that built in for you to choose, it’s still a creator thing but it’s a great resource

lunar patrol
#

Such a simple thing to add globally. No reason not todo it.

chilly juniper
#

Is there anything I can do to disable the shoulder shifting while using locomotion in full body?

Having my shoulders visibly moving is pretty jarring. My avatars already have the checkbox in unity selected for disabling locomotion

final raven
# chilly juniper Is there anything I can do to disable the shoulder shifting while using locomoti...

You'll want to make use of a custom locomotion controller like GoGo Loco.
https://booth.pm/en/items/3290806

GoGo Loco VRChat 3.0 Quality of Life Locomotion System - franada - ...

Feel free to add it to your own booth product. This locomotion prefab was created to improve the default movement controller. On top of that, you have multiple toggle to turn off legs movement or jump animation as example. You can cycle between multiple pose to simulate that you have full body

chilly juniper
#

So to replicate the old slide around without my shoulders shifting I need to add an extra thing?

#

Unfortunate

final raven
#

Unfortunately, just marking the checkbox in Unity to disable locomotion while in fbt doesn't completely disable all locomotion animations.

chilly juniper
#

I see

devout current
#

Is there a way to just disable locomotive with go loco

#

Without needing the rest of it?

prisma meadow
#

Sadly I doubt I got enough params for that

prisma meadow
#

BTW anyone got an example of an ideal rig for ik 2.0? Feel like with every update I run into more and more problems with my rig so I just want to fix it once and for all

harsh lagoon
#

i saw this image being thrown around a while back, i'm not too sure how well it holds up now since its like a year ago that i had seen it, and i'm not sure where it came from either tbh

devout current
#

The new IK likes it more when the hip, spine and chest are all above each other in a straigth line

harsh lagoon
#

yeah then disregard that picture there

devout current
#

(still hope it will support spines / chests with a bigger angle on them)

zenith glacier
# devout current Is there a way to just disable locomotive with go loco

idk how it is about gogoloco, but i assume you can just use that one parameter that disables it and leave everything else out. The one we did on wetcats server can do it as well with one Bool Parameter named "DisLocomotion" and "force locomotion animations for 6 point tracking" set to off. It also cancels out animations when you are getting too low, since it assumes you are going to lay down to not break your pose. and an @prisma meadow as well, for your info :3 https://wetcat.gumroad.com/l/locomotionVRC
https://i.gyazo.com/b393b3a960eb016b804700fce75cf434.mp4
https://i.gyazo.com/9e0df33799cdd9b976ff6ba490dda0ed.mp4

▶ Play video
▶ Play video
#

you two would be surprised how many avatars are actually using custom locomotion controllers with these functions, but they simply arent enabled by creators

devout current
#

Oh yeah I tried that one out too, but I didn't really like that it changes the sitting / laying down animations in desktop

zenith glacier
devout current
#

ah okay, thx for the info, I'll look in to it later then

zenith glacier
#

but i digress. we need a "force locomotion animations for 6 point tracking" on off toggle by default from vrchat

devout current
#

yeah

#

I would be fine if we could just get a parameter to do that tbh

#

but having one for every Avtar in general would be even better

devout current
zenith glacier
devout current
#

ah okay, so the Locomotion fix also fixes that?

zenith glacier
#

jup, gogoloco and locomotionfix do enforce a single pose if you just want to float around

devout current
#

interesting

zenith glacier
#

i guess some auto footstep behaviour stuff with the logik of the normal locomotion layer. Then again, we implemented that stuff shortly after 3.0 came out, so i dont remember exactly which settings cause which undesired behaviour

#

right now i am just making sure that the controller works well with the ik beta and we have to see how things turn out^^

devout current
#

nice ^^

last rain
#

time to delankify my avis

marsh elm
#

i cant wait

raw wadi
#

FBT only overwrite tracker point. Since no toe/chest tracker, those still animate.

zenith glacier
#

oh one thing i just remembered. The additive layer (if vrchat uses the sample one provided) might cause minor rotation values on the ams&legs, since it first goes into proxy_idle and then if FBT is found into an empty state, which does not revert possible rotation values to 0 (write defaults is off, so from my understanding the empty state should not revert the changes)

#

technically, since loading does change tracking type like 2-3 times, it might play for a couple of frames

unknown.png
vital inlet
# prisma meadow with the new update my shoulders are bending down way too much. whats the fix fo...

If you find that your avatar buries their shoulders into their chest it might be that you need to:
A:) If you are on desktop seeing this issue, then you need to modify the locomotion layer to support less shoulder rotation
B:) If you are seeing this issue on VR in 3 or 6 pt tracking, then it has to be the fact that your shoulders do not align too well with the avatars, try to make them less broad.

final sphinx
#

Its just a layer control

#

Disable locomotion and u gud

robust tangle
vital inlet
# robust tangle Could you go into more detail of how to "support less shoulder rotation"

Well the base locomotion layer will automatically supply a little rotation to your shoulders, but a little can be a lot for some models, as everyone could apply weight differently to their shoulders. Also that rotation could just be too much, and you will then need to modify how much it applies. (For some male avis I have worked on, I needed to just completely remove the rotation on the shoulders.)

fiery plinth
#

Hmm just noticed I can mess with the bones transforms in fbx import settings rig tab for quick testing, any downsides? Seems to stick any changes while in UtitiltyTPose

vital inlet
#

Please someone help, my friend is stuck in beta

#

She tried switching and uninstalling and it just won’t work

round osprey
devout current
#

(and are probably also talking about the Avatar Dynamics beta)

maiden rock
#

would have thought this was more to do with the IdleLayer or ActionLayer, not played much with it personally

vital inlet
#

getting you images, but well, pfft, might take me a bit.

unknown.png
#

So here, in the base layer, in the standing layer, while there is no horizontal or vertical velocity (VelocityX or VelocityZ) we can see the avatar is idling.

unknown.png
maiden rock
#

or we talking about editing the transform position of the shoulders in the animation its using?

vital inlet
#

well you found it, sometimes that number can be too high, causing the arm to appear to bend inside of the model's body

#

Some avatars deal with that due to mapping of where the shoulder is actually on the model, not every animation works for every avatar

#

So it may need a little customization and tidying to look nice

maiden rock
#

this seems to be visually OK

unknown.png
vital inlet
#

This should be how it appears in game then with you being desktop only.

#

Or headset only, (1pt)

maiden rock
#

right but the issue we have is the moment you are using full body, after calibrating the rest position is pulling the shoulders down

vital inlet
#

In 6pt?

maiden rock
#

yep

#

well, technically 8

#

as its needs the elbows to work

vital inlet
#

Then have you tried using the armlength calibration?

#

Wait, 8pt

#

Well I dunno then... I don't have it lol

maiden rock
#

shoulder IK is tracking the position of the controllers against the elbows

vital inlet
#

I was just giving my 2 cents on the 2 that I know the issue could have been about.

maiden rock
#

so far, from what people have been posting, it looks like there's too much downwards weight in a neutral pose

vital inlet
#

Still confused on why we don't just take the chest idea.

#

But I mean, if I am saving 100$ then I am saving 100$

maiden rock
#

meanwhile my chest tracker is on the floor not being used :D

vital inlet
#

Ooof

#

Oop

#

Something something IKT something

maiden rock
#

still, your suggestion is helpful and may point others who have neutral pose position issues in the right track

#

may explain why some are getting it worse than others

vital inlet
#

Yeah, I have heard lots of gripes when it came to AV3 and the posing of the avi in 0 1 3 and 6 pt, it is not that we have less power to fix it, but we have more, that takes more knowledge.

raw wadi
#

In my controller, I chose higher shoulder (still) for FBT but (still3) for the rest. Because of the shoulder movement range. I wonder what is best now.

#

Shoulder drop to much in 8pt+ ?

raw wadi
vital inlet
#

Well I am taking about the base layer and it's changes to the models position, I am not to worried myself cuz I am either desktop or 6pt

pine ravine
#

.

zenith glacier
#

my fbt pose for example is just a copy of t-pose with the arms (not shoulders) turned down

unknown.png
#

and just for complete explanation: arms are turned down, because if you open steamvr vrchat seems to stop IK for hips and lower (meaning it simply stops wherever it is) as for spine and higher it does whatever the current state's animation wants. -> avatar would raise their arms to t-pose, if they are not turned down like this in the animation

vital inlet
#

I was able to customize my IK to my liking

#

Making the standing pose was really important, as it is what I am in if I am not FBT (3pt is so boring to me now lmao) also it is pretty funny to see how much tripping on themselves there is in the default walk (see my second image.)

unknown.png unknown.png
vital inlet
#

Most of the time I will ask "Well then, if you understand it enough to complain about it, tell me how you would want it to be fixed." and then they end up legit explaining a core feature of SDK3 for avatars

scarlet pine
#

my chest gets twisted when i lay down in certain avatars. what might that be?

winged cape
rustic berry
winged cape
#

Do the bones seem to be the right size and in the right spots in that case?

lethal light
#

@winged cape
Try making it similar to this

empty solar
#

imo the bones are way too straight

devout current
empty solar
devout current
#

then tell the IK to work better with a bent spine / chest lol

empty solar
#

is this for lock all

devout current
#

no, every lock option

empty solar
#

never had these problems and I have a tilted chest bone

devout current
#

Kung talked about it here:

empty solar
#

oh my spine bone is straight in nearly all my models

devout current
#

yeah the new IK doesn't like when it's tilted

empty solar
#

I was thinking in line of the chest bone not the spine bone

#

like this is my current IK on my models for the time being

unknown.png
devout current
#

yeah that seems fine

raw wadi
#

I test both lock a while ago, but I think I saw the avatar head position snap to where the avatar descriptor or maybe it was the head bone with the headset.

maiden rock
#

especially if you want the joints located correctly, a straight line up from the hips to the head root has everything far too forward

#

I have a feeling this worked well when dealing with very simple humanoid creatures a few years back, not quite so much with more realistic body shapes

devout current
#

hm true, I just know that it doesn't like hard angles on the spine that much

#

this is were my issues are coming from

maiden rock
#

It's not the first time I've had to do this, but I was hoping perhaps we could have gone with something a little more accurate, I don't like how she looks with it straightened out to accommodate the IK

maiden rock
marsh elm
#

rule 9, i'd delete that b4 an admin does it for you lol

gleaming harbor
#

wait what

#

oh sorry

maiden rock
#

it's been suggested that avatars still using the hip fix orientation might be getting some weird behaviour as well

#

looking at that picture, it looks like the tail is below the head

devout current
#

Yeah, that's not the cause for that specific issue thought

maiden rock
#

I'm going to play around with the rig tonight, I was tipped off that connected bones can allow for non directly vertical bones

merry moss
#

I was in 10-point tracking the other day, and discovered the Battle Discs game was broken for me - I was unable to throw or activate the discs. Once I switched to 6-point (but still on the IK beta), the discs worked correctly. Anyone else encountered similar issues while in 8+ point?

#

Is this something content creators would need to account for on their end?

raw wadi
#

not rich enough to test it

robust tangle
#

Also hi Beatfox thanks for the flexi tail in 2007, found it my first day in SL and is part of what made me stick with virtual worlds.

merry moss
#

Also I should clarify, it's the Battle Discs Beach world by NNLogic that I was in, not the old VRChat Battle Discs world (which I didn't actually know existed until looking it up just now).

robust tangle
#

That sounds like an actual Bug then, and I doubt there’s many 8 or 10 point tracking people testing out udon scripts.

There does not seem to be any mention of udon breakage on the canny. Bug report time? https://vrchat.canny.io/vrchat-ik-20?search=Udon

merry moss
#

(And am I the only one having trouble changing my canny PFP from the default robot? The option to upload an image is grayed out, and there's no similar option in Settings on the VRChat webpage.)

dusk anvil
#

everyone has the problem, my canny profile picture is my main avatars thumbnail from like a year ago.

robust tangle
#

I filed a canny for canny being broken, but Tupper said it was Canny’s problem.

dusk anvil
raw wadi
#

With the new IK you can turn in place when the locomotion is disable. Before the chest was twisting.

tiny token
maiden rock
tiny token
#

Did you move the bones, or repose?

#

I’ve adjusted bone positions, all it does is change the point of rotation of the WPed vertices right?

#

Aren’t bone tails just for aesthetics?

spring rune
#

not that it matters much at all for my case now that I’m getting Tundra but can someone confirm what I was told, have this solved the stretchy body issue for Kinect users? it was basically the reason I’m getting proper trackers at this time, since the important activity of dancing was basically ruined for me. it’s been so long 😓

knotty acorn
#

using lock head with IK2.0 does in fact fix the hip stretch.

#

well.. kind of.. technically your hip is still slightly behind but because of lock head allowing your hip to drift to allow the head to stay in place it looks fine

robust tangle
#

I don’t understand why head lock causes my hips to drop and knees bend as if crouching

#

And not just my own avatar this happens for other people’s public blueprints as well

#

It’s the same as using sitting mode when sitting in 3 point, it just doesn’t move you up high enough and the knees are still bent

carmine gate
#

if you switch lock behavior and then go back to lock head, does it fix itself?

prisma meadow
#

thats because the torso is slightly larger than your actual torse, so it needs to drop your hips a bit

#

at least I think

robust tangle
robust tangle
prisma meadow
#

ive noticed that the body snaps to your trackers instead of just not doing that. perhaps its snapping to the middle of the hip bone

robust tangle
#

Seems to do the same thing regardless of where I put the hip tractor during bind

prisma meadow
#

same for me

robust tangle
#

The only way to fix it is if I move the tracter after binding

#

I thought the point of calibration was to grab the hip offset at the time of locking

prisma meadow
#

ya thats what it should be. I have the same issue

#

think its the same issue as to why you need to look down a bit when you have both locks on when calibrating

robust tangle
#

Is the hip supposed to be impossibly small length

#

Mine isn’t

prisma meadow
#

Dont think so

#

really wish they would give us an example rig

loud patio
whole glacier
#

(head lock)

junior pebble
dusk anvil
short knot
#

nice

stiff light
#

Based slimevr update

real bane
#

was not planning to get on, this changes

stiff light
short knot
#

hewwo

stiff light
#

liccck

short knot
#

owo

half needle
full gull
#

anyone else still using the legacy calibration method with 10 point?

dusk anvil
#

thats probably not recommended

full gull
#

I've been fine enough with it

oak pendant
#

For release, measure-by-arms will be same scale factor as legacy by default to avoid confusion during the update. But as you mention the launch option in available

dusk anvil
full gull
#

I just like to look down and not have my avatar sink through the floor whilst doing so

dusk anvil
#

you're going to the floor dimension.

#

it'd be pretty funny if like uhhhh resolution options were in-game as well

#

probably a canny out there already

oak pendant
#

Possibly at some point, but it's a confusing option by nature. Many new users are confused by tight arm, so the too-long avatar arms from legacy also make sense there.

#

Personally I liked the scale factor ik-beta had at launch better too, but plenty of people don't care if they can't fully extend their arms if it means they don't over-reach them either.

dusk anvil
#

i care. :gigachad:

#

but yeah an option to switch between the two would be cool

oak pendant
#

And lots of people were very confused about how floor height, arm length, and user real height interact when the new scale factor was introduced with initial ik-beta

#

but I get that it's a use case for enthusiasts who don't want to scale by height because of high-heels or otherwise non-grounded foot rotation points

#

So the launch option is in there

#

Yeah, I'd be more concerned about "brand new ik makes my avatar too small and floor wrong. New ik must be broken!"

frosty orchid
#

||Bruh||

dusk anvil
oak pendant
#

Both points of view are very valid though I think, I gave it a shot at ik-beta release, thanks to the feedback from beta testers here I think we're able to dodge a bullet on the scale factor for full release

oak pendant
dusk anvil
oak pendant
#

Yeah, there might be other reasons to further adjust it that we haven't thought of

#

No problem. Thanks for understanding about the new (old) default.

dusk anvil
#

imagine the batshit insane things people are gonna be able to do with ik2 + osc + dynamics

#

i cant, my brain broke.

oak pendant
#

Hmm, yeah better dynamics + more tracking points could make some cool looking stuff

dusk anvil
#

tfw that one guy knees me in the chest and i take damage due to my avatars pvp system

oak pendant
#

Still waiting to see someone do OSC toe bend tracking

dusk anvil
oak pendant
#

OSC tasers!

silver geyser
#

yeah folks have got haptics working with open Sound control and Avatar Dynamics

dusk anvil
#

OH FUC K

robust magnet
#

oh my

#

I have a couple of spare ESPs

oak pendant
#

Ah interesting, looks like it would tickle

tiny token
oak pendant
tiny token
#

Let us tell the game our armspan

#

Just like the height

#

Instead of a magic scaling constant

oak pendant
#

In theory you could set an armspan, but it would be less configurable on the fly because you couldn't make further adjustments with user real height

prisma meadow
# oak pendant OSC tasers!

actually got my tens unit working. But the issue was i was having relay inductance so it would hit me a bit harder than i expected.

tiny token
#

Arm span setting for arm-mode, existing height setting for height-mode

oak pendant
#

Arm span in arm mode still needs to set the VR floor some distance down from a targeted height

#

So the ratio problem still exists

#

(not trying to "gotcha" btw just trying my best to get your thinking so I can answer your first question about the reasons for the ratio)

tiny token
#

Same, without knowing the implementation I can’t give confident suggestions lol

#

Wouldn’t you just the floor beneath the feet of the avatar?

oak pendant
#

Yeah but how tall does the avatar stand to get the feet there?

#

(there could be ways to auto measure user height, but that introduces the concept of calibration into 3pt when they didn't have to deal with that before)

tiny token
#

Does the IK2 height mode use a scaling factor?

oak pendant
#

height mode is basically "auto mode" for the scale factor

tiny token
#

I thought how it worked was

  1. User enters a height, 170 cm for exam
  2. The avatar and world are scaled so that the distance between feet and hmd matches height (minus forehead?)
  3. Resulting in arms being whatever length they are
#

And for arm mode, swap height and arm

oak pendant
#

distance between feet and hmd -> distance between feet and targeted height

#

(you might not be standing straight at any given time and distance between feet and hmd varies a lot)

#

For arm mode the world is scaled to fit the avatar's arms between your arms, and then the full standing head position of the avatar is aligned with the targeted user real height (by shifting the world floor)

tiny token
#

Hmm yeah, the trackers can be attached anywhere

final sphinx
#

just saw your comment on the canny Kung, gonna try ovraing into an object later.

#

also hyped for the elbow fix, as it was kinda werird on some avas

oak pendant
#

The angle popping when locking elbow in front of your avatar should be fixed now lmk if there are still issues

#

Also a few cases of shoulder tracking causing sagging shoulders or an odd crimped shoulder look should likely be solved, again lmk (on canny) if issues remain

oak pendant
final sphinx
#

yeah seems plausible

#

wonder if those also covers the issues some quest players had on live with desktop arms

oak pendant
#

That should have been solved with the first version of ik-beta

#

But ik-beta isn't on quest so we'll never know! But yeah actually that was a general 3pt issue I think

#

Oh, I suppose the "fix" won't revert back in legacy mode in ik-beta but I don't consider that a bug that legacy isn't like live in this case

rose beacon
#

having some issues with the new elbow solver when not wearing arm trackers.
the 2 main issues im having are

  1. my elbow points away from my body when i place my hands near my shoulders
  2. the elbow razes when moving my arm across my chest
VRChat_3840x2160_2022-03-29_21-00-02.777.png unknown.png
vital inlet
#

will the ik beta be quest too

vital inlet
#

The new version of the ik beta released earlier on Tuesday works great with Steam VR, Driver4VR and the Xbox 360 kinect. I like the new full body tracking adjustments options in the settings tab.

dusk anvil
#

selecting open beta downloads the avatar dynamics beta

maiden rock
lavish topaz
#

^ so weird seeing the shoulders actually work in a realistic way lol gonna have to get used to seeing that

vital inlet
#

heya, weird oddity I am testing

#

The world feels askew

#

Like Google Askew type level askew

#

AAAAnnndddd the simple turn it off and back on fixed it

carmine gate
#

I have that when the magnetometer in my rift gets out of whack, taking the headset off and doing loopdy-loops with it for a bit fixes it

#

happens rarely, but still a possible occurence, most likely not related to beta. if it happens again, try opening the steamvr dash, and see if thats askew as well

empty root
maiden rock
#

At least get 2 more required for elbows, unless you don't have FBT (6pt) in the first place :o

deft spruce
#

Some avatars with non-human shoulders may not behave well though. I have yet to test this theory with one Avatar I own that has no humanoid shoulders whatsoever.

maiden rock
#

I suppose non human shoulders may be a strong use case for the disable launch parameter

harsh lagoon
#

Seems like all the issues i had with weird elbows are fixed!, there is just one small thing i noticed while using an animation that had me lay on my back however, when i looked left and right while on my back, my left arm would twist upwards, right arm was fine though. I'll try recording it tomorrow to show

#

otherwise, tracking seemed good, scale seemed good, and elbow clipping torso felt great too :yesye

devout current
#

It's not mentioned in the change log, that's why I'm wondering

maiden rock
#

The announcement in #open-beta-announcements briefly covered it

  • Added --custom-arm-ratio="0.4537" launch option. "0.4537" is default, "0.415" will approximate previous beta arm scale
devout current
#

ohhh whops my fault, I thought that was something for 8 / 10 point tracking

#

😅

#

Tbh I feel like it would be nice if a few of these options would be ingame and not launch options. This would make it easier to find out what the best settings for your self are.

#

It's getting a bit clutterd with all of these launch options

maiden rock
#

Agree though it seems like Kung has an uphill battle with those responsible for UI

devout current
#

I mean those more indepth options should be something in the Main Menu settings pannel, otherwise we would just clutter the Quick Menu settings page even more

upper plover
#

I think my brain is fried, I read VRChat version thinking it’s unity version

#

We are still on unity 2019 right?

mild nimbus
#

for the time being yes

raw wadi
#

If this behavior could be change. The new IK is going to be perfect.

bold osprey
#

Hi, i would like to ask, so right now i only have 6 vive trackers, is it still possible to just equip 3 trackers + 2 just on the elbow? Or ik 2 doesnt allow anything other than 6 point and 10 point ?

carmine gate
#

you can do just knees or just elbows yea (on top of waist and feet, elbows alone with upper tracking doesnt work)

bold osprey
#

Thank youu

low kraken
#

@oak pendant do you know how VRC actually calculates the arm span from an armature? Does it use specific bones? Or an average?

fierce holly
#

Question I'm on the beta just got 10 point tracking and I can't move I turned the trackers off and could move any ideas why this is happening?

dusk anvil
vital inlet
#

on default karin base with no rig changes it had that bug

#

i couldnt figure out why

final raven
grand lynx
#

Really hope we get to continue using armscale adjustments even if its something we have to enter into steam as we are doing now

#

Fine adjusting it has given me the best tracking Ive ever had

coral cairn
#

out of curiousity what's your personal ratio?

rustic zodiac
#

Is it just me, or did shoulder tracking stop working after latest update

#

Is there a way I can go back to pre-update beta to check?

#

Was working amazingly yesterday

#

using 10 point fyi

#

I see you kung!

#

did you get sleep?

oak pendant
#

There's now more of a limit on how far down shoulder tracking can cause the shoulders to sag (was an issue on some avatars), to see if this is what's causing your issue try calibrating with your arms down more to start with

#

So you'd calibrate in something like an A-pose with your real arms below the avatar's T-pose

rustic zodiac
#

Ahhhhh, yeah I changed avi to my test and I see it working kinda

oak pendant
#

(only as a diagnostic check) See if that will let you see the shoulder tracking working again

rustic zodiac
#

Works if I go A pose

#

but looks odd af

#

xD

oak pendant
#

The sag reduction shouldn't really be a large change though to the point of it stopping working, it just prevents extreme sag (but if it were going to be in that zone you wouldn't have wanted to track anyway)

rustic zodiac
#

Main thing I get back is front back rotation ,that almost completely doesnt work now

#

With T-pose

#

Apose works

#

Guess its because arms areforced to stretch more

oak pendant
#

If you shrug the shoulders up and then simultaneously try front-back can you see it again?

rustic zodiac
#

Yep

#

shrug and everything works

#

I seee when you tpose you raise your shoulders slightly, so this caused the sag

#

to compensate you force the restriction of lower movement

oak pendant
#

Do you have a screenshot you could share of your avatar in blender?

#

I'm curious how the shoulders are rigged up

rustic zodiac
#

sure 1 sec, want both avis Im testing wirh?

#

with*

oak pendant
#

whichever one you're having trouble with

rustic zodiac
#

Can you tell its a test avi

#

lmao

oak pendant
#

I see, yeah usually when unity applies the rig config to an A-pose avatar it straightens the arms out but leaves the shoulders sloped downward

#

If you had it in T-pose (including the shoulders) it would probably improve this

#

I can look at restoring more front-back motion though when the sag prevention is kicking in

quasi venture
#

The IK beta is available for quest? is that an error?

rustic zodiac
#

This one has MAJOR issues lol

oak pendant
rustic zodiac
#

Because of the short shoulders

quasi venture
#

Ah ok.

rustic zodiac
#

But most old bases are built like this

#

So I have it to test with xD

quasi venture
#

It does say that it's available for all platforms though with the update post

rustic zodiac
#

Using OSC for chest tracker coming soon

oak pendant
rustic zodiac
#

Also butt trackers lmao

#

Jiggle jiggle

oak pendant
#

Once IK-Beta becomes "Open Beta" for the IK2.0 release, I think it should be available on quest to test before the final release at that time

#

(that would be after Avatar Dynamics is released)

rustic zodiac
#

Wouldn't you push IK beta to Prod?

#

Seems like something to give to the community before all the big stuff

#

Unless it's not ready before Dynamics, not sure how that's getting along Tho

final raven
#

Gonna be tweaked on as much as possible before it gets pushed to the public branch.

hollow sigil
rustic zodiac
#

I seeeee

low kraken
#

Is the arm length measurement that VRC uses as simple as hand bone to hand bone? or fingertip to fingertip? How can I measure arm length for myself?

rustic zodiac
#

Fair point

final raven
hollow sigil
#

Let's hope that goes smoothly

final raven
hollow sigil
#

so basically, the patch that we got some time ago, was also a patch on this beta?

raw wadi
#

What are the math for the elbow clipping prevention.

hollow sigil
# 
  this.Magic();
}```
#

not math, but it is how most people see it

zenith glacier
oak pendant
oak pendant
low kraken
oak pendant
hollow sigil
oak pendant
# low kraken Like this?

I'll note though, if you're just trying to calculate a ratio to have the floor height set correctly, measure-by-height mode will do that automatically

low kraken
#

Yup, I got that. This is part curiosity and part trying to find the ideal rig for all calibration types.

junior pebble
oak pendant
#

There may be a short time when AD is out but IK2.0 isn't fully merged yet, which could force everyone back to not having the new IK on live during the interim.

devout current
#

Btw the current SteamVR beta breaks VRChat, someone the live version works though.

final raven
devout current
#

yup

#

SteamVR 1.22.2

maiden rock
#

don't change a thing, was dancing tonight and it was perfect :D

grand lynx
#

Agreed

#

Tracking is perfect now

#

This is amazing

#

All my issues are gone

#

For 10 point anyway

vapid wharf
#

sorry for the beginner question, but does taking advantage of the ik improvements in this beta require a different sdk or enabling any settings in the avatar project file? tried looking for an answer to this and i couldn't find anything

rustic berry
vapid wharf
#

gotcha, thank you!

rustic berry
#

you just switch to the beta, and enable the Beta IK in your quick menu

#

having extra trackers like elbows will drastically improve how the Ik looks

vapid wharf
#

does it change animations in desktop mode as well? i have a headset, but I'm curious

rustic berry
#

not sure why you would care much about IK in desktop mode lol

#

but I'm not sure on that one

#

IK 2.0 is an option under the "Full body tracking" section

vapid wharf
#

Oh I'm just working on a commission
I'm not sure what mode my client plays in so I was curious if they'd notice a difference on their end

maiden rock
prisma meadow
#

Something about the new update fixed shoulders for me. So that's nice

winged cape
#

Would changing my avatar’s default pose from A-pose to T-pose help fix the fact one issue I’m having, where my arms are too long when outstretched to the sides and too short when stretched forwards and looking up?

lethal light
raw wadi
#

It does but only the arm, not the shoulder.

keen grove
#

i heard the new IK is kinda garbage... I would switch over, but i really dont want to deal with bugs. Does any1 think it will be ready for release in like a week or so?

#

if it was pushed

raw wadi
#

It get less bug over time since more testing

devout current
worldly crag
#

Finally back to vrchat after a few weeks off. I jumped in yesterday and noticed a bunch of oddities (elbow jumping around, chest flipping when spinning in place) with 3 point fbt, but come to think of it, not sure if the beta was active or not... might try it again tonight

final raven
ionic heron
#

and ye, it'll be in development for longer than avatar dynamics

vestal oriole
#

Havnt used live ik since this one been out

devout current
#

Same

robust tangle
subtle arrow
# keen grove i heard the new IK is kinda garbage... I would switch over, but i really dont wa...

it literally can't be ready to push out until after avatar dynamics are released. Their current plan appears to be finish the beta on Avatar Dynamics, release that, then move IK 2.0 to open beta and merge it with the Avatar Dynamics branch and resolve those bugs.

Also they have been very actively resolving issues people have found and posted on the Canny. I'd say it is really good and the bigger challenge they are having is getting it to a state everyone will be happy with while not bloating the UI with options

dusk anvil
#

the fact that the new quick menu can scroll helps a lot

minor rampart
# vestal oriole Havnt used live ik since this one been out

I use legacy in a few contexts, but yeah, I'm on beta IK 98% of the time.

I just really want the leg/feet IK to be addressed so sitting on the floor, cross legged, doesn't look terrible anymore---and that little movements on my feet don't result in my legs moving in a fairly dramatic fashion.

cosmic pagoda
#

is it still relevant to have the knee and elbow slightly bent to prevent breaking in the future? or does the new ik system will make it obsolete?

1.jpg
dusk anvil
cosmic pagoda
#

Thank You

raw wadi
#

I think the only thing that change drastically is that you don't need to have that big of a gap from hip to leg.

#

No more side hip tilt

hushed zinc
#

ok so im on Oculus quest 2 but its not letting me go into the open beta

#

any help?

#

ive looked in the store but for some reason there's no detail button

raw wadi
#

Ik 2.0 is only pc for now

marsh elm
#

lol

devout current
#

The Oculus Rift version also doesn't have it

raw wadi
bold osprey
#

any suggestion for elbow straps?

final sphinx
#

(from tundra)

bold osprey
#

u can buy them loose? ill look it ltr

marsh elm
bold osprey
#

Wut

zealous verge
kind tulip
#

how do i join ik 2 beta? asks for a code

ionic heron
#

It doesn't - switch to the IK2 beta, and update the game

kind tulip
#

you are right, it said code not working but now theres the ik tag next to game name thanks!!

ionic heron
#

yw! c:

devout current
#

They are independent from each other

empty solar
#

I learned a hard lesson

#

if you want very long arms you have to sacrifice the shoulder bone length

dusk anvil
#

a soul for a soul

vital inlet
#

When the bones coming out on quest 2

dusk anvil
low kraken
#

@oak pendant For measuring the arm length, what if the avatar is not in a T-Pose? Is it still measured the same way?

unknown.png
sharp ermine
#

How do you lock your hips

#

I want to able to turn my entire body when I look around rather than have it twist a certain way

carmine gate
#

get owotrack

#

assuming you dont already ahve fullbody

#

you cant lock your hip in place if you dont give it a point of reference

sharp ermine
#

Rip

carmine gate
#

owotrack is free

#

this is the part where I get really really pissy, because of strict server rules about server invite links,a nd the fact owotrack doesnt have an actual website

#

@sharp ermine https://k2vr.tech/docs/bettertracking#owotrack k2vr docs to the rescue (always and forever, never helped better than by yourself, I hate humanity, were all doomed, please give me a flamethrower and a get out of jail free card)

carmine gate
#

tldr, if you use owotrack alone, you can have 4-point tracking where you add just the hip on top of the head and hands, and that will let you do what you were asking for

robust tangle
maiden rock
#

Vrchat applies a tpose animation to your avatar whatever resting pose it's in, generally a tpose or a pose will be good as a neutral position to avoid too much mesh stretching

whole glacier
#

An important thing to note is that if the shoulders are not already straightened unity does not T-pose/straighten them.

low kraken
robust tangle
harsh lagoon
rustic berry
#

this is the IK pose

#

here's the Tpose

unknown.png
robust tangle
#

I don't know if they are the same, it's possible though

muted pecan
#

is there a way to mark trackers as "do not use"? ive added a tracker for my dog im using externally, but i want vrchat to stop trying to think its part of my full body ik

marsh elm
#

The "Yo what the dog doin" tracker

muted pecan
#

i prefer the "lets all pet the dog" tracker

raw wadi
#

The IK pose bend the limb to know what way to go.

low kraken
prisma meadow
#

noticing that sometimes when I calibrate with 10 pt my knees will move the opposite way they are supposed to. anyone else getting this?

lethal light
prisma meadow
#

move right knee right and right knee moves left

lethal light
#

I have not heard of that happening, might test it out a bit and make a cany. Is it only one one avatar?

prisma meadow
#

I only use one avi. so idk

lethal light
#

xD, fair

past spruce
#

Sounds like your trackers are too close to each other, since sometimes similar situation happens with feet trackers.

prisma meadow
#

Could definitely be. I have them on my thighs because they slide off my knees

empty solar
#

The IK beta fixes one of my problems on one of my really old avatars

vital inlet
#

so can anyone tell me the dif between 8 point and 10 point. like i have 7 trackers but waiting for the strap. but wanted to know if there was a major difference in it for dancing

marsh elm
#

what do you want to hear in specific

rustic berry
vital inlet
#

okay thank you

grand lynx
#

In 10 point, the shoulder movement makes so much of a subtle difference in movement. When dancing, the shoulder movement makes everything look way more realistic.

#

Was messing around with friends and filtering them out using the camera.
I am not a professional dancer by any means mind you, but that little shoulder push at the end just really sells more realism.

#

Loving the current 10 point tracking in beta with the ability to adjust arm scale. Best it's ever felt. Kudos.

devout current
# grand lynx

is that with hip lock, head lock or with hip & head lock? ^^

grand lynx
#

Just hip lock

#

head breaks likes in 10 point

devout current
#

oh

grand lynx
#

legs*

devout current
#

xD

grand lynx
#

head and hip causes you to look like that one kids from recess

devout current
#

looks really good btw ^^

grand lynx
#

My experience of having head/hip lock is this:

devout current
#

lmao

grand lynx
#

To everyone saying to have trackers above knees/elbows are 100% right

ebon rune
marsh elm
#

Is there a way to allow some compression in the chest/spine assembly?

#

Since it seems like the torso is the first to buckle under the two locks?

fiery lava
zenith glacier
primal palm
#

My Tundra trackers drift a bit depending on which base station is visible, causes the shoulders to act a bit weird.
Would be nice if I could disable the shoulder movement to hide the wacky tracking.

#

Launch command or config text would be good enough tbh. 🙏

marsh elm
#

i just wished trackers didnt yeet away into the sun whenever they lost tracking for a sec lol

devout current
primal palm
#

Ah, it's just in Open Beta? 😅