quest-optimization

[humble canyon]

just wanted to check because those contribute to file size

[marsh glacier]

Not even remotely, the highest cause of crashes on quest are not memory limited it's a processor based issue. If it were something remotely related to VRAM or Ram in general there would be more frequent issues like even loading into worlds. If an avatar were to be 150 MB on standalone then ofc it would make more sense to be prone to crashing but if it's in the 30-60 range (which is more realistic for those who optimize for quest then it's 9 out of 10 times fine. There was a given slide for MB for a reason. It was a 1 braincell decision to remove it all together and limit it to 10. VRC is at this point known and going to be known for making ignorant decisions and making stupid blatant bad calls.

[humble canyon]

there are a bunch of quest compatible worlds that outright crashed the quest one before anyone else shows up so yes it is possible to exceed the ram

[fallow portal]

like i have most of foob's avatars uploaded after purchasing them and they're all over 10 mb for quest, and hers have hardly any blendshapes

[humble canyon]

and vrchat themselves have said Ram running out is the most common source of crashing

[marsh glacier]

So? As someone who has benchmarked the game standalone and link there has been a processor issue RATHER than a ram issue.

Do not take what they say at face value.

[fallow portal]

all in all

i think

they shouldve just left the mb as optional

if a player turned it up too high and they crashed

that was on them

[humble canyon]

the quest is literally fixed Hardware so any testing they do would be equally as valid as yours

[marsh glacier]

I'm more than aware it's fixed hardware. So they likely ran a short few inaccurate tests that showed otherwise if it were to do so and scrambled around with it and said "screw it why not" and pushed out an update that makes 0 sense. As someone who works on technology mainly computer based and with the quest being basically a mini small form computer it's not hard to easily diagnose the issue compared to PC. They either didn't test it properly and just took it from the word of some prick of a tester of some sort or they tested and failed utterly and didn't acknowledge it and pushed out some rushed half-assed 'patch'.

[ruby marsh]

what the heck did I even read

[ruby marsh]

optimized world, with box projected glossy reflections, specular highlights/micro shadowing, tonemapping on quest

easy peasy

[humble canyon]

Cool

[pearl bough]

Holy shit that fps is really good compared to 90% of worlds your stuck at 20 xwx

[ruby marsh]

for some reason screenshots have a warm filter over it, might be because of a setting I have but yeah all runs and looks good

I haven't seen any quest worlds with that quality though

[gentle kindle]

For Joker roleplay this world fits perfectly

[ruby marsh]

lmao true

I would link the world but I can't make public worlds yet

but also for others to try it out on their quest

[green oriole]

Letting people visit your private world still works.
And all you need is the link to the world to visit any private world. (Does mean they have to start the instance from the website, but still.)

It also helps with rank

[ruby marsh]

https://vrchat.com/home/world/wrld_62e0faf7-667c-4e59-9ed4-55caabdcbdd2

[green oriole]

Pure speculation, but would guess a popular private world would have higher rank gain.

[green oriole]

I am real curious to check this one out next time I am on.

[ruby marsh]

quest only atm

and world is only 6.14mb

its smaller than most avatars LMAO

[green oriole]

Why not just swap and upload again?

[pearl bough]

Cant you just upload it for community labs?

[green oriole]

Still, got a Quest and need to test some Quest things so could bundle that together.

[green oriole]

Only if user or above in rank.
New user can only make private worlds.

[ruby marsh]

^

[pearl bough]

Ohh

[ruby marsh]

since I don't use my vrc account much its low rank

[pearl bough]

Well i didnt knew you were just new user lul

[gentle kindle]

6.14 mb is impressive

I got that one once but I decided to add more sounds hahaha

[ruby marsh]

very easy to optimize sizes honestly

not sure why more people don't do it

[humble canyon]

good question

[ruby marsh]

making a PC version

[ruby marsh]

quality wise the only difference between the PC should just be a bit of fog and bloom

and slightly brighter specular highlights/reflections

because HDR

[ruby marsh]

both versions are up

PC and quest

https://vrchat.com/home/world/wrld_62e0faf7-667c-4e59-9ed4-55caabdcbdd2

6.09mb for quest
8.54mb on pc

[trim verge]

What's a good way of testing quest performance without having a quest. I'm trying to see if a model I'm making will work well on quest

[green oriole]

There isn't really a way for you to do it.
You either ask a Quest user, or wait for the mobile version of VRChat to be released.

Any testing done through PC would miss quite a few things, especially graphical things, since the GPU architecture makes some things wildly more costly on Quest.

[pearl bough]

Ah yes
The mobile port of VRChat

If VRC can barely work on an oculus

Then your phone would be a hand grenade if you attempt to download it

[green oriole]

For any budget phone yeah, probably, but it won't install on any android phone without at least 6GB of RAM and at that amount of RAM and above you'll find phones with better SoC's than the Quest 2.

Any flagship phone released since the Quest 2 will run better than the Quest 2, since its chip wasn't super new at the time.

Now, keeping the phones cool will be a problem.

[trim verge]

At least quest users have someone to bully soon ( I'm kidding please don't bully)

[pearl bough]

I only bully people who are being a public nuisance to everyone

(Aka just prove a point they're wrong of what they're doing and/or saying)

[ruby marsh]

you can make a seperate unity project

that builds a quick android demo

if you have an android phone

and debug performance there

[trim verge]

Hmmmm

I'll try that. In your guys option, is it better to have a bunch of 512 textures or fewer 1024 textures.

[ruby marsh]

I lean towards 512

but honestly just measure the difference

in terms of size/memory

[trim verge]

Thats what I was thinking. But honestly it's hard because I know old unity preferred less textures and larger sizes but I've heard it's changed since then.

[ruby marsh]

mehhh not quite

I will say whatever leads you the best usage

1024 is nice but its 4x as large as 512

[ruby marsh]

but what makes it hard?

in theory some are not wrong, performance wise its better to pull from fewer texture files than multiple small ones. hence the usage for texture atlases

but if you don't construct your atlases well you are wasting memory/disk space

https://polycount.com/discussion/64190/1-large-texture-or-few-small-textures @trim verge

some good opinons here

[trim verge]

Oooo I'll give it a read. I'm no stranger to textures atlasing but I hear so many options that are very different from each other.

[ruby marsh]

the reason for differing opinons usually is that it can vary depending on what you are doing

i.e. platform you are developing for, and what you prioritize as a dev, quality/efficency

[trim verge]

I swear unity is sometimes like defusing a bomb whose wires keep changing colors.

[ruby marsh]

this isn't really a unity thing though lol

[trim verge]

You know what I mean lol.

[ruby marsh]

yeah I do, I've been there when I was a beginner hearing a bunch of conflicting opinions when you don't know the exact sources or contexts in which they are for. but just know that what matters at the end of the day is your platform and your usage of it. which is why I said earlier to measure the differences yourself

only way to know is to test it, so be a computer scientist

😛

[trim verge]

I dont have a quest is the issue. I'm more of a beginner to quest stuff. Thanks for the advice and resources.

[ruby marsh]

you can use an android phone as a proxy @trim verge , or if you don't have one then you can use some android emulators

[humble canyon]

and also a cell phone doesn't have to render the world twice and 30 frames per second is acceptable

[vocal egret]

latter probably, although I've found I can get away with multiple 4096x4096 textures while still being below the halfway mark of "excellent" because astc go brr, no idea how that performs on actual quests because I don't own one but eh, VRchat doesn't seem to have a problem with it.
also pro tip for standard lite: encode the smoothness channel into your diffuse's alpha channel if you don't have any metallics, saves you one whole ass texture in terms of vram usage

[humble canyon]

Yeah that is a very helpful tip the channel packing

[vocal egret]

tbh I do channel packing even on PC, no reason to have 10 textures per material when I can combine metallic roughness and AO into a single DXT1 texture

[humble canyon]

Now I'm wondering if anyone's been crazy enough to do what Nintendo's done and channel pack something in the blue channel of the normal map as it's always going to be the same color so you can just calculate that in the shader

[vocal egret]

bit of a problem: unity encodes normal maps in the red and alpha channel instead of red and green, and are just converted when importing, soooo either you're gonna need a shader that reads regular textures as normal maps or you're going to have to manually encode the normal map how unity expects and not import it as a normal map, and hope unity doesn't throw a fit.
also hope it doesn't get weird about the green and blue channels
TLDR: blame DXT5nm/BC3nm

[ruby marsh]

^

can confirm unity always recalculates the z channel also if you have a texture interpeted as a normal map

[ruby marsh]

also honestly this is very viable

most modern games I've seen get rid of the z channel

as you can just very easily recalculate it at runtime

of course it would incur a runtime cost needing to calculate that z channel when a normal map is sampled, though it does save on memory overall

but yeah same, I do channel packing regardless of platform

if you can, should always be efficient and save whatever you can. Takes a bit of effort but always worth it in the long run

[humble canyon]

So does that mean the normal maps looking the color they do in the editor is just a audience convenience

[vocal egret]

yep, actually encoded they're transparent red textures

[ruby marsh]

no

or wait, read that wrong

[vocal egret]

makes me wonder why normal map formatting isn't used for metallic smoothness maps by default, though that'd make channel packing even more painful so actually better for it not to be that way

[humble canyon]

Do you know how expensive that cost might be as wondering if that might be beneficial to big quest maps to use less vram?

[ruby marsh]

I don't have or know any numbers, but honestly speaking for an underpowered platform like quest its best to save runtime costs whenever you can

so classic RGB/XYZ normal maps

[humble canyon]

Good point

[vocal egret]

the more efficient you are, the more headroom you get to go crazy, tbh I really feel like quest could benefit from some more optimization trick oriented shaders like UV tile discarding so you can do multi-outfits without becoming very poor for too many meshes

[ruby marsh]

^^^

I mean I was recently able to publish a quick graphics test on quest that is rather high fedelity

[humble canyon]

And for worlds I do wonder if folks would benefit from like detail maps more often

Like one extra sample but using less vram seems like a decent trade-off

Like no need to make the floor 4K if you put the repetitious detail on the detail map

[ruby marsh]

ignore odd warm filter

[humble canyon]

Or stuff like world space/light map uv noise to make the tiling less repetitious?

[ruby marsh]

posted it here before but getting good quality on quest with achievable frame rates isn't overly difficult

literally have box projected reflections + tonemapping and directional lightmaps with specular highlights being done at rock solid framerate

just gotta be efficient

[humble canyon]

Yeah definitely familiar with that combo as I have like a chill bedroom that's like 70 frames on quest with directional lighting specular highlights

[vocal egret]

wonder how stupidly high my FPS will be on PC

[humble canyon]

But it is literally just one room so that doesn't necessarily scale to a big space

[ruby marsh]

or using 4k for mostly toon worlds/avatars 🤦

[humble canyon]

Like even on a realistic Avatar 4K is a bit Overkill as like RGB tiling detail maps could cover being able to stick your nose up to it and see the fabric detail

[vocal egret]

depends on the UVs imo

or if it's an atlas

[humble canyon]

Most of the time the badly optimized vram hogs also have like a bajillion materials

[humble canyon]

That's what the RGB mask is for so you can have more than one detail map

[vocal egret]

I mean, if the texture is spread across the whole body though it might end up looking horrid
1 4k texture taking the spot of a bunch of 1-2k textures is very different from 20 4k textures that are just there for the sake of "haha pixel density go brr"

[ruby marsh]

I mean

from an artist standpoint

easy way to maximize details

mirror UVs

i.e. UV half of the model, mirror the other half

that way you can allocate way more pixel density

but of course that has its obvious drawbacks

[vocal egret]

multi-uvs are pretty neat

[humble canyon]

https://vxtwitter.com/guycalledfrank/status/1602078012215812096?s=20

[ruby marsh]

ahh good ol mr f and his bakery

I really want to make my own lightmapper someday

he needs to look into implementing spherical gaussians

[humble canyon]

Yeah I just figured I'd bring it up in case you haven't seen it as far as a directional lighting mode that uses less file size than the built-in one

[ruby marsh]

instead of spherical harmonics

https://mynameismjp.wordpress.com/2016/10/09/sg-series-part-5-approximating-radiance-and-irradiance-with-sgs/

sorry

probably lost all of y'all dropping jargon like this

[humble canyon]

https://vxtwitter.com/VIANVOLAEUS/status/1517951135528665088?t=FvZRB472HwJA5JplYmGy_w&s=19

Tweet showing what I meant with the RGB mask

[ruby marsh]

by RGB mask I'm assuming you mean sampling a seperate texture for each channel in that RGB mask?

ah yep

your still sampling alot of textures at the end of the day though

[humble canyon]

Yes but using a boatload less vram

[ruby marsh]

your still eating up vram needing to load in those other textures though

[humble canyon]

The equivalent of a 512 texture is not a whole lot of vram compared to like a 4K texture

[ruby marsh]

yes, but just want to clarify it isn't a magic bullet lmao. still needs to be loaded in at the end of the day into vram

[vocal egret]

ok I need to try that

[humble canyon]

And I suppose isn't too particularly relevant to this channel is it's more of a PC Avatar thing

[ruby marsh]

yeah, pushing us down this tangent I blame that on you 😛

[humble canyon]

Yeah that's completely Fair

Just was on my mind because using detail maps on my own cross-compatible map to cut down vram

As basically I construct my fabric assets out of big shapes with a low res normal map and then the repetitious structure with a tiling low res normal

Unfortunately currently a power outage where I'm at at the moment so can't grab screenshots

[vocal egret]

I mean, y'all making a good case for why quest needs some more shaders, literally so optimization tactics let us have closer to PC avatars without chewing at the XR2 so much

[ruby marsh]

how do you mean more shaders?

i.e. more customized/efficent shaders or?

[ruby marsh]

i.e. for my little test here it was all a custom ubershader

[vocal egret]

specifically the latter, shaders that allow for more efficient methods of doing things, like UV tile discarding (outfit toggles without having to either use more meshes causing very poor, or use shape keys which eat memory and cause performance issues)

[humble canyon]

I'll be it I'm not sure most folks have the triangle Budget on quest for multiple outfits

If they're not being very poor

[vocal egret]

valve game models tend to have less than 10k polys pre half life alyx and look quite good, you can get away with the polys for multiple toggles if you try hard enough

[humble canyon]

Probably helps that the half Life characters are not wearing stuff with lots of little intricate chains like a lot of the MMD kit bashes are

That for some reason they insist on doing in full geometry the kit bashers

[vocal egret]

yeah 400k poly eboy avatars really give kitbashers a bad name

[humble canyon]

I suppose worst are those that try to upload those straight to the quest

[vocal egret]

tbf there are some things that are hillariously difficult to translate to quest
case & point: anything involving hair or feather cards

[ruby marsh]

yeah transparency is tough on quest

[humble canyon]

Like honestly surprised there aren't more tutorials for how to model like solid geometry hair like you see in fortnite for VRC creators

Mostly just splines

Though I suppose some retopology could probably make spline hair a lot cheaper

[vocal egret]

I mean, if you think this can be done in under 15k polys without transparency be my guest

[ruby marsh]

ouch yeah don't think so

[humble canyon]

was more referring to the humans

[ruby marsh]

well even for humans as well, going to have to be mostly texture tricks

perhaps even resorting the old school ways of baking occlusion/specular right inside of the albedo maps 😛

[humble canyon]

You could probably bake most of those to the body texture

As probably most of the quest people looking at you aren't going to be sticking their nose right in your chest like that

[slate plume]

Why can’t I see Avis above 10mb anymore mannn

[humble canyon]

that's setting menu being there at all was copy-pasting pc ui as the sdk does not let you upload more than 10 MB anyway

[slate plume]

If it ain’t broke don’t fix it

[humble canyon]

like if you saw any avatars above 10 MB on quest they were breaking terms of service by using a modded SDK

[heady wing]

In other words, it was broke so they fixed it

[civic gale]

So the SDK is recommending we switch to ASTC with a warning sign and an auto fix button.

The SDK tells me this is being done to reduce VRAM usage, maybe, however, it's more than quadrupling the size of all my textures on disk.

I'm hitting the 20mb limit with a single 8k atlas now. I don't mean to sound accusatory but like, what is the rationale behind this?

[civic gale]

I'll note that cranking the block size all the way up to 12x12 doesn't recuperate the cost.

[gentle kindle]

yeah astc 12x12 is the best way and you can increase the size without changing much and still looking good

and disabling mip maps helps too

[oak knoll]

why when i load into worlds it says not enough memory but my oculus has 250gb of space left

[gentle kindle]

its not talking about this type of memory but its vram memory

[oak knoll]

oh

[gentle kindle]

The Quest 2 has 8gb of vram but vrchat can use only 6gb of that

[oak knoll]

can i get more somehow or do something to make it run better i guess?

[gentle kindle]

Its not possible
the memory is internal and you would need to open the quest 2 entirely to access

[oak knoll]

so if i were to open it it would just be like upgrading ram if you can in like a computer?

[gentle kindle]

I once thought about that and I did some research and it looks like the ship is attached with the motherboard

[oak knoll]

so you cant even upgrade it at all

[gentle kindle]

Nop and the best we can do is waiting for quest 3

[oak knoll]

dang!

is there nothing in the settings we can do about it either to make less stuff run for our ram?

[gentle kindle]

Well there is the quest pro wich has more ram than quest 2

[oak knoll]

i hope the quest 3 is a bit more light

[gentle kindle]

Its hard but what we can do is to be aware the apps we open in the menu and make sure the apps is closed when playing vrchat bc some apps can still running in background

[gentle kindle]

Me too. I'm already saving money

[oak knoll]

i might just save for the valve index haha

if the 3 isnt too good

[civic gale]

I was talking about the size of textures on disk, not the VRAM usage.

[gentle kindle]

I was talking about that too hahaha

[civic gale]

But what you're saying doesn't apply here. 12x12 ASTC still increases the size of my atlas texture on disk by almost 3 times as much as ETC2.

It's a bit better than the default 4x4/6x6 block size, but it still prevents me from uploading my avatar.

My atlas goes from 1.6MB to 7.2! That's worse than PNG. The original file was only 5.

Here is a 78.6 kilobyte solid red texture (for example) being shot up to 9.5MB after ASTC.

[humble canyon]

an 8K texture is way too much for Quest

as that's going to use 256 MB of vram

[humble canyon]

the quest to only has 6 GB of RAM so vrchat only has 4 gigabytes to work with

[civic gale]

Again, these were for example.

Trying to illustrate that ASTC tanks size on disk, not VRAM.

[humble canyon]

wouldn't surprise me if vrchat considers that a plus that you can no longer put a A 8K texture on a quest Avatar

[civic gale]

Okay let's say I reduced the size of the texture to fit the 20mb upload limit.

ETC2 would still be beating ASTC for size on disk. So we're trading a VRAM benefit for a massive increase in bandwidth requirement?

That VRAM uptick better be worth it because the average size of a Quest avatar is about to double, triple or even quadruple.

[humble canyon]

there's a hard cap on Quest Avatar file size so they literally cannot double

[civic gale]

woosh

[humble canyon]

I suppose mission accomplished if the average resolution of textures get smaller on Quest as far as cutting down on vram

like vrchat some documentation considers 1K the highest anyone should be using

https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/quest-content-optimization#textures

"Keeping texture size low is important. You should aim for using 1k (1024x1024) resolution textures at maximum. You should also create efficiently packed atlases, allowing for more texture resolution in the same size."

[civic gale]

double woosh

[humble canyon]

like a 4k texture already puts you at very poor on Quest for texture memory usage

https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/avatar-performance-ranking-system#quest-limits

[civic gale]

Size

on

disk

[gentle kindle]

sorry I just saw the messages now

I wasn't talking about the vram

This is a texture using etc 4bits that comes as standard and the size is 2.7mb

This is the same texture using ASTC 12x12 and the size is now 0.6mb

And this is the same texture but with the mip maps disabled

[gentle kindle]

Sorry my bad. I got confused hahaha

[vocal egret]

🤔

this is with mipmaps by the way

[civic gale]

Yeah VRAM usage varies by compression type. They weren't even speaking on similar terms. Felt like I was talking to a dictionary.

[brisk cove]

Did something change with the latest SDK for quest optimization? It's not preventing me from uploading models that are big now but it's also not showing me what I need to fix before people can see it.
It usually prevents me from uploading models if they're too big

[humble canyon]

do you mean the file size or physical dimensions

[brisk cove]

Like file size, I was able to upload a model I had not optimized yet while on the android version of unity, and I know for sure the model could not have been able to be uploaded like that because it have more than 8 phys bones on it as well

Usually I just click "build and publish for android" so that it lets me know which things I have to fix before I am allowed to upload it but this time it didn't do that at all

[humble canyon]

Quest avatars always had a hard cap of 10 MB for file size

[brisk cove]

Yeah, but I wasn't getting that "Current size XX.XX mb" message that would prevent you from uploading to android on the new sdk, I am getting it now on the old SDK though

[north bay]

My avatar top and bottem is green and I cant turn it any color idk a fix

[humble canyon]

sounds like your model has vertex colors you need to remove those

[north bay]

yh i did it thank you also what good ways are there to remove megabytes. liek clothes or texure quality

[candid thorn]

Lowering resolution of textures, removing unused stuff that needs textures

Probably don't need any textures above 2k resolution, some will probably be fine at 1k or 512

[pearl bough]

Lul why have 2k textures?

Everything for me is 1k or lower

[heady wing]

If you have one material and your vram use is quite low, a 2k texture would be fine, especially if you need the detail

[pearl bough]

I could care less about that honestly
Lower = less vram usage
So good enough for me lul

[humble canyon]

like if you have a metallic smoothness map if it's just solid Blobs of color you could probably crank it even lower

[sharp zinc]

Bro my avatar is literally 10,00mb and wont let me upload wtf

"Cant upload a 10mb avatar cause the limit is 10mb"

[humble canyon]

then just make it a little bit smaller

[sharp zinc]

I know but it's just stupid lmao

[pearl bough]

LMAO

Imagine if it was a kb bigger lul

And denied you cause of it xd

[slim coral]

actually happened to me once

10.01

i cried

[pearl bough]

Rip

[pearl bough]

10.03 for me

[daring dragon]

One 2k texture is actually way better for VRAM than several material slots of 1k textures

[tribal roost]

Unless you have two or less 1k textures. Three 1k textures would be pushing it like you are saying, and four or more would almost certainly be more VRAM usage than one 2k texture

But you do have to keep in mind that a 1k texture is one fourth the size of a 2k texture in theory

Which is kinda funky but also makes sense

[daring dragon]

But also draw calls in general are much more taxing than texture size overall

Texture size is more of a strain in the fact that you have to download a larger file, while draw calls are arguably more expensive otherwise

[pearl bough]

[humble canyon]

and also take up more RAM which when the quest is out of ram it crashe

[daring dragon]

That is true

But with vram performance blocking, usually not as much of an issue nowadays

[humble canyon]

yeah I suppose that something worlds more have to worry about

[gentle kindle]

maybe matcap if you find a good metal matcap

[vocal egret]

matcap lit is unironically better for metal annoyingly, blame standard lite not supporting reflection probes

[sharp zinc]

Hello guys i connected my octulus quest 1 with air link and when i try to play any games the quality is being very low do i have to connect with cable for good quality? even tho in vr home quality still being very blurry and details are bad

[pearl bough]

How the hell does this fit in quest optimization

[sharp zinc]

:))

[north bay]

How would I fix this?

The purple in the eyes

[north bay]

okay

thank you

[north bay]

it had a standerd shader but i had to delete it how would i add it back inot the prefab

@fathom oar

add component?

since i did delete it

@fathom oar

okay thank you alot

[pearl bough]

Wut

If the original mat was delete all he needs to do is apply it

[pearl bough]

Literally just drag and drop

[north bay]

Okay..

[pearl bough]

Drag the material into the eyes by just dragging it from the asset folder (or whatever folder the mat is in) to prefab

[willow hare]

I notice that webm videos play in Quest now, but do they use more resources to decode than mp4 files?

[plucky night]

Any help on how to fix my VR Chat from crashing with the message "you do not have enough memory to run VR Chat" on Quest 2?

Im also getting kicked out saying system didn't have enough memory, but i have over 20gbs left

[humble canyon]

that's referring to Ram that error message not storage space

[plucky night]

How do i fix it, do you know?

[humble canyon]

there's not really anything you can do about that besides showing less very poor avatars

[plucky night]

I'll try that, thanks.

[humble canyon]

and basically that error message happens because if vrchat is trying to load more stuff than it has RAM for it crashes

[plucky night]

I changed the distanced of when avatar are shown, and how many are shown, hopefully that helps.

I also cleared the cache

I never used to have this problem before.

Weird

Now i can't load into any maps with alot of people cause I'll get kicked out.

[keen sage]

Yes. Recently this error kept recurring. It used to happen once in a blue moon for me too.

Wonder what's wrong with Vrc.

[timber scarab]

I been having worlds either lag a lot or freeze my quest causing me to power it off then on in order for it to work again. :/ If I can fix that would be wonderful.

[grand harbor]

trying to find these shaders so I can switch them to the vrchat ones and upload the avatar to quest. but i cant find them at all. is there another way to do so?

[last patrol]

Can u take a full screen of the sdk

Pls

[pearl bough]

Huh

Why do you need that?

He is just missing some materials that has custom shaders

Which he needs to change

For quest

[placid laurel]

so quest avatars can't use custom shaders like poiyomi? good to know.

[severe atlas]

not by default no

[dull oyster]

hey there!
just curious.. does the handtracking work via steamvr too? since i only found smth from 2022 which says, that it's beta for quest standalone only...
does this still apply or did smth change?

thank you:)

[green oriole]

It does not, blame Meta, they make hand tracking on PC developer only, so it will likely stay like this until Meta changes their mind.

[dull oyster]

damn.. thank you for the fast answer.. thought there would be a workaround for that :/

[green oriole]

Nope :/, annoyingly no standard for hand tracking on PC.

In theory ALVR and some OSC program could allow for hand tracking, but you'd lack the ability to move and the avatar itself would need to be setup for it.

[dull oyster]

ahh i see..
so there is no other option than to play it from quest itself instead via link cable then
will have a look at the ALVR thingy 😛

[slow scarab]

hey i'm have a lot of problems with my q2 and vr chat, namely 0 avaters loading in (even my own characters actual texture don't load, just the model), and it crashes really easy once i start showing peoples avatars

[quaint carbon]

what was it? i'm having a similar issue 🥲

[north bay]

whats the best way to reduce MB without taking clothes and toggles. ik texture is one

[humble canyon]

honestly just not having as much clothing on one Avatar would be helpful for file size and vram

[north bay]

yh its just that they look really nice with them. always wondered how so many avi creators or editors have so much for quest

[humble canyon]

But to answer the question probably lots of crunch compression on the textures to make them take up not too much file size

[north bay]

okay will do that thank you

[pearl bough]

Lowering poly count aswell ig

[north bay]

how would i do that?

also using crunch compression do i set it to 100 or 0

or 50

[azure stone]

Why my hair is green????

[north bay]

How do i replace the pink/purple mising material. i deleted a greyed out material on the eye now it is gone can some1 run me down how to fix it]

[severe atlas]

Right click, create new material, drag new material to where the missing one is

[severe atlas]

☝️

[north bay]

thank you very much. would u know how to reduce phys bone tranform count

[severe atlas]

Try changing your endpoints

[north bay]

on unity could u run it throug just a little bit new

[severe atlas]

I mean it really just depends on the model idk what your working on

[north bay]

i fount endpoint but there all on 0 so idk how to reduce that and just woman really i could send ss?

[wispy locust]

How can I see, what is creating this large file size?

I have only 2 images one is 32x32 (384 Bytes) and another is 2048x2048 (1.3MB).
how in hell do I gett 13,56MB?

How can I see what is causing this large size?

[pearl bough]

Blender

[green oriole]

https://github.com/Thryrallo/VRC-Avatar-Performance-Tools is really useful for this, it has a list of what is taking up VRAM, which is the same as download size unless you crunch compress.

[wispy locust]

why VRAM?

I am talking about the file size

(disk space)

(download size)

[green oriole]

As I said, it is the same thing, unless you compress textures (with crunch compression).

[wispy locust]

why does I have 13MB if I only have 4,5MB VRAM usage?

[green oriole]

The VRAM usage in the SDK only lists the VRAM of the textures.

It does not include the model

blendshapes

[wispy locust]

Its confusing as hell.

What does "Optimize Game Object" do with a avatar?
is it recomended to check or do I break some functions with it?

[north bay]

how do i reduce physbones tranform count

[severe atlas]

Remove physbone components

[north bay]

what if im trying to keep some

[severe atlas]

Keep some just remove some

[north bay]

hair takes up so much but i need it

[severe atlas]

Then you're gonna have to take the model into blender and re rig the hair to have less bones

[stoic epoch]

i genuinely just need help quest optimizing a opossum model please help ;-;

[shell jay]

Maybe use https://vrcfury.com/
"Blendshape Optimizer" and "Direct Tree Optimizer"?
Those can help a bit with filesize

[sharp zinc]

Number 1 Tip for Quest optimisation

Buy a PC

[heady wing]

Can confirm you won’t be able run blender without one

[pearl bough]

and can confirm your pc will sound like a PS4 while running vrchat

[pearl bough]

Also people have better things to do then buy a PC for VRChat lmao

And if your not a quest user, maybe don't speak here unless it's for development reasons instead of making a really dumb comment

[tribal roost]

Depends how old the laptop is

If it was bought within the last couple of years and wasn’t like a bare minimum $200 laptop, then it’s CPU and integrated graphics should be enough for Blender.

Now rendering or baking are out of the question, you need beefier hardware to do those

[shell jay]

if I had to guess
Vertex colors
You can remove them in Blender
or there's tools like VRCQuestTools on Booth.pm that remove it automatically

[sharp zinc]

I am a quest user this is why I said it 😭

[pearl bough]

Well a PC isn't going to solve your issues

Lmao

[blissful owl]

So I added a new video player to my pc world and want to make it visible for questies, what needs to be done for it to be synronized now in the quest scene, the pc and quest one are much different, would I have to remake the quest one entirely?

[severe atlas]

You'll either need a url resolver to make YouTube links work on quest or just put the whole video in the world

Like this https://t-ne.x0.to/?url=

Just put that before the YouTube address

[halcyon adder]

What up with the saying memory i s full but my quest 2 memory is not full

[humble canyon]

memory in that case is referring to your headsets Ram not your file storage

[halcyon adder]

but there no why tp upgrade the ram in quest 2, or can you send me a pic where it is

[humble canyon]

you cannot upgrade the RAM on the quest so there's basically nothing you can do about it

[proper flare]

(Vrchat issue, and limitation issue)

[blissful owl]

That wasnt the question but thanks

[severe atlas]

I mean every time you make a change both builds need to be in sync or things will get fucky

[blissful owl]

thats what I was tyring to find out, what makes things in sync because its not just object location, you have to rebuild from the pc version everytime you want changes made in both worlds

[severe atlas]

I mean i just build one scene and just make sure its quest compatible then upload to both

[fervent drift]

can someone tell me if its better to buy a game on the oculus store and run it on just the vr set or buy it on steam and connect through pc. I assume the latter performs better if you have a cable however I am running on airlink and Im not sure if it's still worth it.

[severe atlas]

really depends on the game

[vocal egret]

Depends on the game and if you care about being locked to only one brand of headset, if you do care and want to be able to move to any other ecosystem, get them on steam, you won't lose them for getting another headset, if you don't care, well I guess that comes down to if you care about graphics, mods, or features specific to PCVR.

[wraith zodiac]

Anyone know what can be causing issues with my quest and how to fix it? I used to be able to play VRChat with no issues with link cable back then until it suddenly stopped working, I can play for only a good 10 minutes before my quest link stops working, my game keeps playing on my PC but it freezes on my headset, looking around just shows the last screen I was on and glitched out stuff and I can't even open the quest menu I have to disconnect my link cable to fix it anyone had this issue before?

[fervent drift]

so my problem right now is that the games run very well through the oculus store on the device. Anything Ive tried through steam has issue. My best example is breachers which I bought on steam and on oculus to compare and it's night and day. I refunded the steam one. You bring up a good point though but Id have to be able to optimize the steam games first. Ive gone through videos and guides to optimize it and I can't figure out where my issue is. I have 16gb of ram I wouldnt think thered be an issue on my end processing wise and my graphics is a gtx 1650 which Id think would be good enough for a game like breachers.

[abstract roost]

My computer revved up like a motorcycle first time i started it up XD

[pearl bough]

Kekw

[unborn jasper]

💯

[ionic iris]

I have before. It could of been many things. It happened with me and my index. It's not the headset when it happend to me. It could be a faulty file or outdated driver. Just check and update. I reinstalled windows and it started working fine. Don't forget to check if it's a heating issue.

[main elm]

Anyone know why the URL resolvers aren't working on Quest anymore?

[trim flint]

A lot of the Video players are actually pretty broken right now. Either have to program one yourself or find one that has a built in resolver. I think there are a couple out there. I need to grab one myself since the Udon Sharp player decided to break in the most recent update.

[humble canyon]

there are no video players in vrchat capable of Auto Link resolving for Quest

as VR chat for security reasons doesn't let udon have the capability of modifying urls

[trim flint]

Well not a built in but rather adding a predefined URL String before the main URL Sting is always possible.

[proper flare]

Don’t the movie worlds function that way?

Only reason those still work I’d assume.

[green oriole]

You can't add a predefined URL string to anything a user has put into a inputfield, because it isn't a string, it is a VRCURL object and they can only be read, not edited or created at runtime by anyone except users.

[green oriole]

A raw link to a video (usually a URL ending in .mp3 or other video format) works without the need of a resolver.

[proper flare]

So the usage of a normal link, or downloaded version of said link converted to raw mp4/3 functions the same?

[green oriole]

All resolvers are doing is digging out the actual link from websites and part of the reason why the links are hidden in the first place (and why the raw links expire after an hour or so, at least with youtube) is to stop people using it like we are.

So aside from the fact that raw links expire, yeah, they work the same.

[proper flare]

Neat bypass, won’t need nextnex until then.

Going to also assume everything functions the same, with or without using a resolver. Like having my own conversion.

[green oriole]

Technically, when you input, for example, a youtube video, even on PC, into a video player then it is doing the same resolvery bits that websites like nextnex were doing, just locally.

Still do not entirely get why yt-dlp (the program that does the resolving) hasn't been added to the Quest version so we don't need resolver websites at all.

[proper flare]

Limitations I guess, I’m unsure. But another question I want to ask is, how would the streams work?

[green oriole]

Streams do not work, you can't even watch recent vods before they are converted to actual videos using resolver websites, it does work on PC though.

[proper flare]

Let me rephrase it

I meant more of how do streams work for pc.

Because if pc and quest do the same system on resolver for vids how would streams function

[green oriole]

Don't know the technical side of things, but since resolver websites can only do their thing once, when the URL is first run, I assume that must be why they do not work.
Pure guess, but streams run through PC are probably continously run through yt-dlp.

There is one resolver website that does advertise being able to do streams, but as far as my knowledge goes they must be restreaming the stream, which is really expensive, because no idea what else they could be doing.

[proper flare]

Another question would be, couldn’t you also just use the yt-dpl for quest?

If both systems do function as is, wouldn’t streams if slightly edited work the same?

I know quest limitations are the first problem

[green oriole]

It isn't on Quest though, which is the issue.
It seems like I was right and when you point yt-dlp towards a live stream it downloads the buffered chunk and then continously does that after a amount of time, you can't do that without yt-dlp being on device, unless you want to run a server that handles a ton of video streaming, which is very expensive.

[proper flare]

Got it lol

Thank you

[green oriole]

Best guess for why yt-dlp isn't on Quest is because of Meta, because there is a android version (sort of a android version) of yt-dlp.

[proper flare]

Excluding that, price, and limitations

[green oriole]

yt-dlp is open source software.

[void otter]

I think the service vrcdn allows quest to view it on a normal video player because of how it directly streams the video someone correct me if I'm wrong

[void otter]

Pro TV is next best and still gets updated semi regularly

[trim flint]

Yeah probably going to update to that one or IwasSync 3 or whatever it's called.

[green oriole]

Any service that doesn't hide the video link, which should be pretty much every paid service, will work.

[proper flare]

I’ve tried pro tv and for me, I just like things simple for everyone to use

Nextnex was that for me lmao

[void otter]

Never heard of nextnex but i should probably look into it

[digital timber]

How am i supposed to get rid of this physbone when it doesnt show itself when i click on armature (it only shows when i click on the avatar within the hierarchy)

@ me if anyone has a solution

[green oriole]

Nextnex was a service, not a video player.

[green oriole]

Nextnex is dead, it converted youtube links so Quest users could see them.
There are alternatives.

[proper flare]

I was talking about video player I forgot the name of what I used

😭

[green oriole]

USharpvideo is the simplest one I know.

[proper flare]

Prob

[verbal rune]

That's Avatar descriptor, not a Physbone

[digital timber]

oh lol. i cant find this 9th physbone

[pastel solar]

There is a materal on a avatar on mine and i cant find it, i even looked through the all material tab and still cant fine it
any ideas?

[proper flare]

See if there is a object inside the armature

I know if a avatar has collars, bows, other objects get shoved at the neck maybe something Is there

[pastel solar]

I added a pocket knife and couldn't find the missing textures

[proper flare]

In armature? Oh I’m unsure then. I’d advise looking at mat count and counting the ones you can find

[half pine]

salut depuis une mise a jour quand je passe mon avatar en quest il y a une option a auto fix qui touche au paramètres des textures depuis que il y a ceci les MB des textures limites ne se baissent pas même quand il y a pas de textures sur l avatar les composant eux mêmes pèsent beaucoup.

[sudden dome]

does anyone know how many particles i can use in a quest world before it gets too laggy?

[proper flare]

That really varies on if you are good on optimizing. I’d avoid using tons of particles though. But in general any particles that aren’t too important to the world shouldn’t be in the world.

Some games can do it right, most just don’t make particles for quest because it’s a hassle.

I don’t know an exact limit, but it does depend on what’s in the world also.

[sudden dome]

the particles are very important as its fire for burning people at the stake

[sinful badge]

Hey so I here that the quest world poly reccomendation is around 50,000 or so- does anyone know if I can go above it and be mostly okay?

I really wanna add more to my world but I'm already around 55,000 right now and I don't wanna overdo it haha

[heady wing]

According to Meta’s own guidelines for the quest 2, technically up to a million tris is okay for rendering (being worlds, players, props, etc), but you will have to account for other users in the world.

Really up to 100k is fine, but you should be using occlusion culling to reduce that number beyond that point

More important is to keep draw calls down (so fewer materials and unique meshes and the like)

[sinful badge]

Gotcha!! Thanks!! I've been pretty good at keep the number of materials down, and unique meshes. So I think I should be fine haha.

[sturdy barn]

Could anyone with the zenin free model can convert him to quest and upload him for free for me pls? And maybe add fake quest index if possible?

[kind trail]

i got my batches down to 20-50 at any given time and my polycount is only around 100k now, but I still only get around 30-35 fps in my world. Is there a profiler for quest that lets me see what's causing performance loss specifically?

[proper flare]

When you look around, check where you lose fps. Depending on lights and what registers, it might cause slight frame drops.

Idk any profiler to look for where you lose performance other then the thing to look at textures download size

[kind trail]

Same area, looking at the same things, under the same conditions, getting inconsistent fps

and i have zero non-baked lights

i thought it could’ve been occlusion culling causing more cpu lag than the gpu lag it reduced, but after turning occlusion off it’s laggier

[gentle kindle]

standard material can cause that
Even when the model has too much polygon

[bronze remnant]

ive made like all the textures the lowest they can be while still looking good, made menu icons the lowest they possibly can be, deleted a few toggles, and now im not sure what the problem could be still someone please help this is so frustrating ive never had this much trouble optimizing

[humble canyon]

blend shapes also take up file size

[gentle kindle]

Is the textures ASTC 12x12?

[kind trail]

i think i've genuinely done all i can to optimize my world for quest (and in general). reduced batches to double digits most of the time, heavily reduced polycount, occlusion culling and optimized bgm/ambience system to have the least amount of audiosources active, and it still runs at around 30~ fps

is it just because it's a huge world or something? even in a build with every tree disabled it runs at the same fps

[gentle kindle]

Did you tried compress the models?

[kind trail]

they aren't high poly

[gentle kindle]

I know but it helps a bit with the download size.
Also is the textures type with astc 12x12?

[kind trail]

the download size is 35mb, i think it's ok

[kind trail]

i'll check

[kind trail]

they're set to rgb(a) compressed astc 6x6 block

[gentle kindle]

change to rgb(a) compressed astc 12x12 block
Its impressive how the size of the texture change and with texture size reduced you get more fps

[kind trail]

Well, it increased by 1 or 2 fps, but it’s still barely near 30

looking around feels fine in the headset due to the smoothing, but as soon as you see something move it’s really jarring

[kind trail]

does anyone know?

[green oriole]

Have you tried the exclusion method, turning things off individually, or starting from nothing gradually turning things back on?

Wouldn't be too hard to make a script that did that on load, with a delay between things.

[kind trail]

i dont think it has anything to do with toggling gameobjects on/off, i made a build with every single tree disabled and it ran exactly the same

it has to be something CPU related but I have no clue what

I optimized my background music/ambience system so that it pauses/stops audioclips when necessary instead of just muting them so that there's only 1 or 2 playing at any given time, and switched background music to streaming

i dont think i have anything else that's cpu intensive

[green oriole]

The music is also a game object.

Just try and see what happens if you turn everything, except the floor collider off.

You've done a ton so I can't really point to anything else.

[kind trail]

audiosources cause lag just by being an enabled gameobject even if they're completely stopped?

i'll see

[green oriole]

As far as I know Unity practically disables audio sources that are out of range or muted, so..

[kind trail]

fps went up to 45 (from 30) after disabling every audiosource, even though they all start completely stopped

nevermind, i guess it did nothing, fps were at 45 for a few seconds but now they're back to 30, even after making a new instance

[green oriole]

And it is the same for all Quest users that go to your world?

[kind trail]

i think so

[ruby marsh]

The low performance could be due to the shaders your using as well

[kind trail]

I thought it could’ve been my custom shader

I made a build with the shader completely empty (returns light mapped white) and it still had the same performance

[kind trail]

is there really no way to profile the game on quest? i feel like i’ve done everything i can to optimize the world at this point

[heady wing]

The easiest bet is looking at the Unity profiler in-editor

[kind trail]

yeah i tried that, didn’t really help

[heady wing]

As others have suggested, disabling objects one by one could be your only option

[kind trail]

it complained about occlusion culling taking 5ms, but even after disabling every tree and clearing occlusion culling data it still ran at 30fps

hmm

[heady wing]

If disabling trees didn’t do much, there could be other culprits

[kind trail]

does continuously rotating stuff (like a windmill/pinwheel) cause a significant amount of lag on quest, even if it’s just 10 objects?

[heady wing]

Updating transforms isn’t that expensive

[kind trail]

that’s the only udon script i have that continuously does stuff from what i can remember

[heady wing]

You’ll just have to disable stuff, and retest, or start with nothing enabled and work your way up

[kind trail]

alright

[humble canyon]

yes there is no way to actually profile the quest version of vrchat running on a quest

[sterile gyro]

Looking to put nightvision on a quest and pc compatible avatar, anyone know of a way so we can make questies see in the dark? I've been trying a number of options but no luck

[kind trail]

disabled everything, ran at 50+ fps until i started enabling udon stuff

which is weird because i don't think any of my scripts are that intense

[kind trail]

turns out it was that, partly

i have no idea how something as simple as that could be so expensive

[heady wing]

I do suppose it could be partly due to udon

Maybe using animations would be better instead

[kind trail]

true, i'm considering just doing that

this is literally all there is to the code

[heady wing]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[kind trail]

oh well, maybe udon 2 will be faster

i'll just do it with animations

[heady wing]

Updating transforms can be slow when there’s lots of child objects, but this should just be done with an animation

[kind trail]

ah

that's probably it then

[humble canyon]

udon tends to be quite slow compared to Native c-sharp so honestly yeah the animator might be faster

[kind trail]

not sure why i didnt combine these 4 into just one mesh

[humble canyon]

yeah that would be a lot better for draw calls for that to be one mesh

[kind trail]

also do animations have culling? i remember reading animations could cause a lot of lag on quest too, is there an option to cull them when you're far away like reducing their framerate like Switch games do?

[heady wing]

Pretty sure there is a property you can set

Yep!

[kind trail]

ah

[echo rampart]

My oculus linked pcvr keeps crashing after 10 minutes of vrchat, quest standalone does not have this issue but only when I connect it with Quest Link. Could anyone please help me solve this problem? I want to stay longer in PC only maps... (sob)

[mellow isle]

I know this is frowned upon but who can I pay to help me make my world quest compatible like we jump on a discord call and just go through it

I’m not necessarily saying do it for me but just help me and guide me lol

[tribal roost]

It’s less this is frowned upon, more so that trying to do anything with a payment of some kind is fairly risky in this discord server as there is no verification and a good deal of people trying to take advantage of others

Take a look through https://discord.com/channels/189511567539306508/407970838294560769 for something along the lines of VRChat worlds or content creation. Some of these servers have verification for vendors so you know the people you are paying will actually come through

Or maybe you might even learn how to do it yourself for free

[mellow isle]

I see I never thought of that nor did I know that! Thank you

[slow basalt]

anyone got any clues? wasnt too big before

deletes some clothing accesories still no fix

someone help pls xD

i fixed it omg has future proof off

[nimble apex]

For Quest worlds, how much should we budget for vram? Currently I'm targeting a max of ~250 MB to hopefully leave plenty for avatars (world has a soft cap of 15), but I was wondering if maybe there an officially suggested limit or some form of guidelines for worlds?

[wild spade]

anyone got a good metal matcap they can hmu with?

[kind trail]

are 2048x lightmaps too high res for quest? they're the only high res textures i have, everything else is under 512

[nimble apex]

Personally I would say it's fine, especially if everything else is already low res. Using two 4K lightmaps with ASTC compression uses 64MB of VRAM according to the Unity Memory Profiler, and adds ~30MB to the build size in my experience. I believe one 2K texture would only use 8MB of VRAM. Of course, the lower resolution the better, but I'd say 2K is absolutely fine. If you're interested in knowing how much memory something uses, you can install the Unity Memory Profiler and take a peek.

[sturdy barn]

FOUND

[sharp zinc]

So idk if this is the place to put this but on my quest ever since the new update came out me and my friends have been randomly getting colored screens while loading into worlds and it’s sorta staticy and then we have to exit vrchat and get back in

[zinc oak]

Can y’all please put the Max download avatar back to how it was before y’all updated it to 10MB. It’s really annoying especially when I’m looking for avatars with over 10MB. Please and thanks

[tribal roost]

the upload limit was always 10MB, despite what the download used to say, people just found ways around the upload limit by breaking the TOS. That limit is there to help with the crashing problem as well. A 10MB avatar limit is a direct solution to help fix the "ran out of memory" problem, so its not increasing anytime soon

[zinc oak]

Oh

[proper flare]

You know you would just crash right? Downloading 3 different people with 10mb avatar all the same time will boot you and say you ran out of memory.

even if they didnt decide to fix the bypass people did, you still have crashing issues with those avatars anyway

[torn hamlet]

Thinking about optimizaing quest avatars makes me wanna puke

[tribal roost]

yeah?

[proper flare]

Not really hard other then polygon count, just takes a lot of time to do so.

9,999 is too hard to work with for some avatars

Also everyone ignores the standard for quest anyway. Me when seeing anime avatar with 500,000 polygons. (Blocked avatar.)

[limber bear]

why?

it's a mobile shader

[proper flare]

Just use stander lite

idk why none of those particles work

[real leaf]

Alpha Blended is for worlds only unfortunately.

[limber bear]

I want transparency :/

[verbal rune]

No transparency for quest avatars.

[proper flare]

Did anyone else randomly be able to use imposter avatars?

[tribal roost]

The only shaders in that folder you can use on avatars are standard lite, toon lite, and matcap lite

[limber bear]

no

https://creators.vrchat.com/platforms/android/quest-content-limitations

[loud jay]

I'm gonna make my fallback avatar 100 triangles max just to annoy my Questie friends

Oh and like 100 pixels is the max length of a texture

And it's an atlas

So that's like 2 pixels per texture

Idk someone do the maths

[tribal roost]

oooops, forgot there were that many

granted, a couple of those do not work despite saying they do

like the particle shaders for example

[proper flare]

The ones anyone mainly used is mapcap lite and stander lite

Idk anyone who uses toon lit

[tribal roost]

true

matcap can literally just be a better toon

cause you can make fake but good looking cell shading for example

[proper flare]

Only nitpicking I have for matcap is when you are in worlds without lighting system you just look dark

(Problem with toon lit also)

[elder scroll]

Is it better to enable/disable props & clothing or shape key shrink them?

[green oriole]

I really depends, right now enabling and disabling can be better.
But whenever VRChat jumps to a newer Unity version shape keys will cost less, which would make them more viable.

Still, in both cases you really should consider whether you need something on a separate toggle, or can combine multiple ones together.

Personally, just better to create multiple avatars, less for people to download and less that needs to be kept in VRAM/RAM.

[elder scroll]

I'll just stick to toggles then. Thanks

[waxen prism]

I made a PC only avatar, Quest compatible by compression and lowering resolution. One friend mentioned it was 2,000 polygons over the limit for very poor. Would like to get it to poor

[carmine stream]

using blender you can probably decimate it just a little bit and still retain most of the look of the model
if it does look strange you can always go in and manually dissolve edge loops

[waxen prism]

The only knowledge I have with Blender is preparing it to upload to be an fbx file and exporting to unity

I never did the reverse

[humble canyon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MkgXcidxg4

[waxen prism]

Thank you

[pine dune]

It was tough, but I managed to get one of my avatars with toggles to go from very poor, to poor rating on Quest so that it's visible on mobile. (Not all toggles shown here) It's all one single joined mesh and shape keys were used to make toggle animations, as well as using atlas material, with its texture compressed from 8K to 2K resolution in low quality and 50% crunch compression to okay results.

Forgot to mention that mesh decimation was done, down to at least 20,000 tris.

I know this is sort of common knowledge at this point, just wanted to show off some decent optimization work to have it work on mobile.

For the accessories, I just shrink the meshes down to microscopic size when they're toggled off.

[twilit niche]

if textures are usualy not ok to have over 1024, what about lightmaps? bakery gives me a buch of 4k light maps and look alot worse when downsampled

for worlds of course.

[nimble apex]

Personally I'd say going over 1024 is fine for lightmaps. I use two 4K (one subtractive, one directional), with every other texture lower res and everything seems to run smoothly enough on Quest. If you're concerned about using too much memory, download the Unity Memory Profiler and play around with that. Also, if you're wanting one specific size of lightmap (rather than a specific texels/unit), you can put all your lightmapped objects in a Bakery group and force it to be a specific size and it'll automatically find the right texels/unit value.

[deep juniper]

if im using the standard shader or mochies shader do i have to switch them over to stander mobile light shader in unity

[humble canyon]

yes

[white terrace]

Hey can someone teach me how to make a quest avatar? I made the avatar how do I export it from blender and put it in Unity

I have ab nine materials

[grim swan]

why? it should be possible

[ashen crest]

uses too many resources sadly

[analog kernel]

Imagine you have an avatar near you. Imagine it's taking up about 1/3 of your screen. Because of that you won't need to render anything behind that avatar, nor the back side of any of the meshes on the avatars. If that avatar had transparency, then you would have to render the front and back sides of the avatar, on top of everything that is behind. That means you need to render that part of the screen three times. Imagine you have another transparent avatar behind that one. Then where they are overlapping you would need to render that section of the screen five times

It just keeps going like that the more you have overlapping transparent objects

Transparency is okay in moderation and on less complex meshes, but vrchat I belive is trying to prevent the worst case scenario

Most beginners make unoptimized avatars

Most everyone does tbh

[humble canyon]

even a optimized Avatar maker can't control for how are the avatars arranged to prevent a oh dear drawing 10 transparencies on top of each other

[deft nacelle]

Recently my quest keeps crashing

I clear my ram but is there anyway to avoid this

[hazy bluff]

stop showing every very poor avatar you see

[deep juniper]

i switched my build over to android and when i tried to re bake my reflection probe my materials werent being affected do reflective surfces just no work on quest
this is on the vrchat mobile standard light shader

[nimble apex]

I believe the VRChat Mobile Standard Lite shader doesn't currently support reflections. Although, it was mentioned in a devlog that reflections were actively being worked on and should be in soon™️. If this is an avatar, I don't think you can do anything other than wait. If this is a world, you could use a different shader, such as just Standard.

[deep juniper]

? i thought the standard shader didnt work on quest

[nimble apex]

On avatars it doesn't, you're restricted to a small list of mobile optimized shaders. For worlds, it works just fine. It's not as performant as mobile shaders though. If you don't need Standard, try sticking to Standard Lite.

[deep juniper]

ohhhhh so its just a performance thing ok tyty

yeah its for a world

[nimble apex]

Everything should work fine then. Just swapping it to Standard should allow reflections. As a note, on Quest 'Box Projection' is disabled for Reflection Probes, so reflections may be a bit different if you were using that option. Other than that, everything should be identical to PC ^^

[solar lava]

how could I do toggles while keeping compatibility with quest?
i've tried a few things like splitting my pieces into seperate mesh renderers but that causes it to not be uploadable
i've also tried making them smaller and controlling them with shape keys but when i move my avatar there are vertexes floating around due to the weight painting

[tribal roost]

You could give each toggle It’s own bone that has total control over it so you can shrink that bone down to scale 0 to toggle it off and scale it up to 1 to toggle it on

It’s weird but this even works with clothing for example, because you can actually weight paint something to have a total weight from all the bones effecting it over 1

[solar lava]

couldn't that cause issues though

i'll try it though

[tribal roost]

well, it can, so definitely make like a copy of the blend file

You can also do it more manually then weight painting. You can manually assign vertices to a bone group with a weight by selecting all of them, selecting the bone group in the mesh settings, and then assigning with a value of one

As long as you don’t have normalization of weights on then it shouldn’t break

[solar lava]

did this (using edit mode) and now it's doing this

it isn't normalized

and deleting the vertex group (that i created for the toggle) fixes it

[tribal roost]

Ooop

Guess my idea was wrong

Prolly could work… I would just need to think about it, cause I get why it would do that now that I see it…

[bitter coral]

can always make a shapekey to hide the object inside the body mesh

[foggy lichen]

Hi y'all, anyone here just virtual desktop to play wirelessly? Getting some really bad frame rate issues.

[hazy bluff]

If you have an Android phone, download a wifi viewer app to make sure there's no interference

[foggy lichen]

Do you have a recommendation on any specific app? Nothing about my setup has changed beyond me moving to a new house/city and getting a new wifi configuration. But I'm getting like 350mbps and I think it's fine.

I have always connected my Quest 2 to my PC and streamed pixels from the PC to the headset using an application called Virtual Desktop. In the past, I never had performance issues. Even from across the house, far away from my router. But now, I'm getting issues and I don't know what may be causing them. I'm struggling to maintain 20 fps in VRchat while streaming through my headset. I've yet to try it without involving the headset--just playing on my PC but I suppose that's the next step in my troubleshooting.

I don't think it has anything to do with the network connection because I got around the same amount of frames away from my router as I do next to it. Also, my frames increased when I lowered the graphics settings. Since I'm just streaming pixels, that shouldn't have an effect, as far as I know.

I really am kinda at a loss as to what to do next. I am considering over-clocking my GPU but I just wanna know why I even have a problem in the first place.

[hazy bluff]

I'd recommend turning on the performance overlay in settings of VD. That way you can see where in the process your frames are being eaten.

[foggy lichen]

That's the weird thing. Everything looked fine for the most part, as far as I could tell anyway. I'll see if I can screenshot it.

[foggy lichen]

• Framerate 27-28

• Latency 180 ms

• Game 70-75 ms

• Spacewarp = ALWAYS

• 5ghz - 1200mbps

• Bitrate 140 mbps

• encoding <10

• networking < 15

• Decoding < 15

Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-9900K CPU @ 3.60GHz 3.60 GHz
Installed RAM 64.0 GB
System type 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor
Pen and touch Touch support with 9 touch points

Nvidia Geforce 3080 ti EVGA

[shell jay]

Change some graphics settings in VRChat to low
and check your steamvr resolution?

[foggy lichen]

I actually figured it out.

[shell jay]

What was it?

[foggy lichen]

I needed to uninstall VRchat and SteamVR. This solved this issue and I was back up to 60fps. Super weird though.

[shell jay]

Very odd
In future you can try the option in steam "verify file integrity" before reinstalling

[shadow depot]

Hi, if I want to ask some questions about air link, is this the right channel to do it?

[tribal roost]

https://dontasktoask.com/

[bitter coral]

not really in this case since it isnt the right channel

[bitter coral]

id ask in #quest-general, maybe #1138891887374237706 if its more vrchat specific

[shadow depot]

My apologies, I just wanted make sure I was following the server's rules

[tribal roost]

lmao, I’m just saying don’t ask online if someone can help you with something. Ask directly and exactly what you need help with, what your problem is

so no worries

[safe salmon]

So quick question, does anyone know if empty bones that aren't connected to anything on the avatar add mb's to the avi?

[pastel basalt]

everything has a cost. in this case, the cost of bones with no associated weights is miniscule

[safe salmon]

Do you by chance know what I should set the textures to, to crunch them on quest (My avi is mostly PC I just want it relatively shown on quest)

nvm

[pastel basalt]

don't use crunch compression. lower the Max Size as much as possible

for each texture

[safe salmon]

What does this mean? I was trying to upload to quest

[undone plume]

too many lights that eat perfomace

remove one or lower its importance

[autumn pecan]

So, I've been making a world in the background for about a year now, on and off, still unpublished until a couple minor bugs get worked out. The Quest and PC download sizes have always been reasonable. PC will be only 10mb or so larger than Quest. But recently, about 2-3 weeks ago, I updated to which ever sdk was current for the time, and now, with no changes made, the Quest download size is 20mb larger than PC. I've double and triple checked that all my assets are as optimized as possible. As of now, the PC download size is 48mb and Quest is 70ish... It still runs very well on both PC and Quest, so I'm not sure what happened. Anyone else experiencing similar issues or have any advice on how to figure out what is causing this?

[green oriole]

One SDK update a while ago made it so they wanted you to use ASTC as the texture format on Quest and you can't crunch compress it, so I could see it having been that.

Assuming you used crunch compression.

[autumn pecan]

So on Quest, I just need to try setting my textures to not be compressed, or change the compression method? This sounds right as some of the texture quality did change since that update. Thanks, I wouldn't have checked there!

[green oriole]

Assuming it doesn't push you above the 100MB limit (now or in the future), ASTC might be better than whatever you were using before, it has a lower VRAM usage (which is RAM usage on Quest) than the default format, which is the actually important metric.

[autumn pecan]

Figured it out, I had to go into each texture, and manually override the compression format to the correct ASTC for the android side. I just took 10mb off the world and still runs great. Thanks! 😀

[kind trail]

can draw calls cause this much performance loss? the scene with less triangles runs noticeably worse than the other one (but not game-breaking i think)

[green oriole]

Draw calls are rough, especially on Quest.

The recommendation for the Quest 2 is that in a "busy simulation" game (which VRChat is) you should have between 80-200 draw calls per frame (doesn't apply to avatars really, but with worlds everything isn't always rendered, things can be behind you or culled with Occlusion culling, so you can go above it).

https://developer.oculus.com/documentation/unity/unity-perf/?device=QUEST

[kind trail]

100 draw calls dont seem like a lot then, not sure what's causing this much performance loss

i mean it's definitely much more playable than earlier versions of the world that ran at like 20fps though, i'd release it in its current state but I still want to see if I can make it run better

[green oriole]

Does the forest use any transparency, like cutout for its leaves?

Also 100 draw calls is quite a bit for Quest 2 when you consider that avatars have to fit into the 80-200 as well.

[kind trail]

just these two materials, there isn't anything transparent anywhere else in the vast forest area, and every sub-area has big occlusion culling walls

they're just unlit/transparent materials

[kind trail]

wait, could non-deactivated UIs decrease performance?

i was testing an avatar selector system, it has an UI and an avatar pedestal to the side, I haven't added any code to automatically deactivate it when the player leaves its trigger yet

[humble canyon]

Yes that would be transparency rendering

[kind trail]

ah

even if i don't have any transparent ui elements?

[pine dune]

What's the recommended resolution for the video player screens on the Quest world if there's a total of four screens (each in different areas, so there's no multipe screens in view at once, if that makes any difference.)

Cause in my world, I currently have it set to 1080p, which might be causing some frame dips and occasional freezing (on mobile, at least)

[sharp zinc]

quest is always stuttering

[jovial basin]

ya thats why i stoped playing on quest

[wise quarry]

Does anyone know if bakery lightmaps impact quest more than normal?

[nimble apex]

To my knowledge using Bakery lightmaps and Unity lightmaps would be identical performance wise. I'm not an expert, though I don't see any reason why it would have a larger performance impact. Although using the Bakery Standard shaders "Bakery" options (such as SH lightmaps) would indeed have a performance impact.

[humble canyon]

They would be identical performance wise as it's just baking a texture and the unity would be reading the texture so you could have made the light map in Photoshop and it would be the same

[modern spade]

Hello everyone! By any chance does anyone know where to find the tools to make a 2D fallback version of an avatar? I have seen some avatars that are like 2D (still 3d) waffles that look hilarious but are very useful as fallback. And I can't find it by googling so far.

[humble canyon]

you can't use custom shaders or transparency on quest

[copper heart]

no fun allowed on quest

[tribal roost]

It’s literally taking a screenshot or render of the front and back of an avatar, and making the cutout in blender

If ya got the know how you can go a step further and make it like South Park lip sync

But there isn’t an automated tool for it I am aware of

I have always had to do it manually

[modern spade]

What I'm looking for wasn't like that, it was like a set of sprites in a flat shape that was still 3D a bit.

Unfortunately I don't have a screenshot of it.

[tribal roost]

Sounds like Imposters, it’s still in development by the vrc team

even if it’s not what you are thinking about it will basically be what you are talking about and at the push of a button as well

[modern spade]

I saw a girl wearing one in Drinking Night some time ago and she said to search for fallback in jinxxy but I don't get accurate results.

[modern spade]

Yea, i'm excited for those

[tribal roost]

Until then, sorry I don’t really know enough

or it’s cause it’s like midnight here and for some reason I’m on my phone… idk

[modern spade]

No worries, I appreciate your input. Next time I find an avatar like that I will make sure I take a photo or video so I can explain better what I mean, last time I saw one I didn't had a chance.

[pure leaf]

Hello there. Is there currently any other way to profile for quest other than using Unity? Trying to figure out why I am experiencing "you have been sent home your system ran out of memory" when the world I am working on is only 41.9MB, with no crunch compression so its not an decompression overload issue.

[pure leaf]

Ah, perfect! I found the Snapgradon Profiler. I think that'll help loads!

[pure leaf]

Just about crashed here when the mirror in the default home world toggled on.

[tribal roost]

Just because you aren’t using crunch compression doesn’t mean that nothing will uncompress. That 41MB download is still a compressed version of the world, just not as compressed as everything using crunch compression, but there is still compression to decompress

[pure leaf]

Mmmm, I understand that so it'd be nice to have a better representation than just the download size then, just like for avatars because I did just another profile and found that even after leaving the default home world, it didn't seem to clear out any RAM before launching the next world so not entirely sure what option there is to circumvent the current memory managment in place. :/

Standing in default home world for a few minutes

Then this was hitting join to the test world I was using and it really didn't seem to free up much of anything

This was from hitting the Go button to the next world and then being kicked back to home because it was "out of memory"

[green oriole]

I really don't see why it would apply to worlds, but VRChat clears avatars from ram after 60 seconds, could be worth a test.

[pure leaf]

I was the only person in the instance

[pure leaf]

I'd say at a base the level, the world should have importance over the avatars. That's why they are allotted 100MB opposed to avatars which are only given the allotment of 10MB

Which in the scenario of having a world just at both those limits, that still leaves 5.89GB of RAM so I am trying to diagnose what VRC is running under the hood in order to know what is actually doable running on top of that. 😵‍💫

[pure leaf]

world and my avatar

[green oriole]

But what is the point in storing a world you left in RAM, avatars make sense since it happens that people only quickly swap to and back from an avatar and you want that to be smooth.

With worlds you can afford to have it stutter and load from the cache.

[green oriole]

Also VRChat only has 4GB available to itself, the QuestOS takes at least 2GB (updates may be making it take more, which could be a cause for some crashing)

[pure leaf]

I am not talking about storing it, I am talking about ridding the RAM of the world you just left. It doesn't need to be cached anymore so it didn't seem to reflect it doing so in my profiling analysis

But the world stuttering I show is when the world didn't load at all and stuttered before showing the Go button, being kicked back out to the home world

[tribal roost]

you are assuming vrchat has access to all the RAM, the majority or almost a majority of the Quest's memory is already taken by the QuestOS. Like, all the updates to it over the years have legitimately been amazing and neat, but let's just say it really shows that this is Meta's first operating system, and they haven't done as well as they shoulda at keeping Memory lower. Now don't take what im saying as its all Meta's fault and vrchat is in the clear, no they both have some tidying up to do, but at least vrchat is vocal about it and has been taking some steps towards fixing their issues they can find.

Although stop thinking that a 100MB download equals 100MB on storage and especially in memory. Like realize that a .PNG is actually a compressed file format even if you tell it to be 0% compressed. When loaded into memory for use by the GPU, it needs every single pixel of that texture available instantly without decompressing to actually work with it, so in memory it doesn't actually use the .PNG file format, it fully decompresses it into a raw image with every single pixel stored separately in memory ready to be used in computations. That same decompression happens to everything so meshes, textures, shaders (granted that becomes machine code), colliders, etc.

A good example with this is downloading a game from Steam. I can download a game that is 60GB, but commonly the actual download for a game that may take 60GB in my storage will only be a 33GB download.

[pure leaf]

https://tenor.com/view/it-crowd-memory-is-ram-oh-dear-laughing-mocking-gif-24959533

[tribal roost]

yeah bout sums it up, fair, fair

[pure leaf]

I'd just like a better representation of what the full uncompressed amount would be, my only reliable source now would just be running the profiler with every single world which seems a bit excessive but if thats what I've got to do. 💀

[tribal roost]

fair, I agree it would be cool to see real time memory usage or something a bit easier

[pure leaf]

Yes, I hope it gets some eyes, I submitted a 'feature request' to at least have that display similarly to how the avatar download size/texture memory pairs exist now

Which is still a huge issue but thats a whole other can of worms I choose not to dwell on atm haha

[tribal roost]

the texure size kinda works for avatars in the end, because by far any of their actually significant memory usage will come from textures, unless of course they have a ton of blendshapes in which case the mesh might actually have a significant memory usage, but they are activly working on introducing a blendshape metric to the performance rank system

[edgy scarab]

i need some help optimizing for quest

ive already removed some stuff from the model and used crunch compression and turned down the texture quality

[pastel basalt]

make sure the UV maps have the same names

[feral flume]

Is it possible to get her under 10mb? Should I remove some clothes? She's really cool and it's a shame questies can only see the fallback

[heady wing]

Oh god

Uhhh… I don’t think file size is gonna be the biggest issue here

[tribal roost]

that looks like it would crash a quest if they attempted to show it... like Cr_nch said, file size isn't the real issue here. That is WAY WAY too many skinned meshes, materials, textures, basically everything

[feral flume]

Fuck it then, fallback for quest it is

Let's say, theoretically, I removed most of it...

Like just one set of clothes, no pet, no Kunai no Katana, nothing

[tribal roost]

saying it with the reality of what should be done: Take that thing into Blender... thats the only solution.

saying it not caring for good performance but hopefully cutting it down enough to not crash a quest: Yes, that might work

[feral flume]

Might as well just use leave the fallback as is then

I'm not daring enough to blender my way into it

[tribal roost]

fair I suppose

Blender can be a lot

especially if you are totally new to it

[feral flume]

I know it hurts

I tried converting an mmd for quest

Vrchat

Quests are hunting me now

[tribal roost]

well... if you really wanna try, it is Blender, but there is a plugin for it called "CATS" and it turns a lot of these more complicated things you would need to do into literal single buttons

including exporting

[feral flume]

Yep, I have it. Except the model I want to use is the most fucked up, unoptimized, trillion bones and its also in chinese

[tribal roost]

lmao fair, I think CATS has a thing to automatically limit bones as well as translate stuff... but I haven't ever touched it

[feral flume]

I tried its just a pain

It has 2 armatures as well

One for hea dand one for body

And the skin and clothes are separate, and when you turn off the skin it judt disappears

Not invisible or nothing, straight up gone

[tribal roost]

I literally have CATS installed because I keep forgetting the export settings and forgetting to save them in the moment... so CATS is kinda hard for me to use compared to just doing it in blender...

[tribal roost]

well thats fun...

[feral flume]

[tribal roost]

lmao wut?

[feral flume]

Yep

The mesh just gets yeeted out of existence

Until you enable it again

And the shape keys ans modifies disappear when exported to fbx

[tribal roost]

only other time I have heard of a avatar this messed up was helping out a friend set one up in unity... I walked away for a few minutes and came back to see he somehow turned it into a soap monster... yeah, idk either.

[feral flume]

No one does

It's a mistery

[gleaming mantle]

Remove the gpu particles lol

Can't even use them on Quest

[foggy mist]

how to crash less from lack of ram

what are the options

i have all avatars off

[humble canyon]

you've done about as much as there can be done besides for go to world that use less Ram itself

[ruby oxide]

What kind of optimization tools for animations work with vrc?

Instanced animations etc

[foggy mist]

why theres no option like lower world textures

also video players or image loaders are pretty much insta crashes

there must be solution to that

considering i was checking meminfo and still had solid 150mb of ram

[green oriole]

Because asset bundles only store one resolution of textures.
Changing them on the fly would probably cause second long stutters.

And mandating adding in several resolution of textures would bloat world sizes and only do something on newly updated and published worlds (on the latest SDK, which a lot of people aren't using).

[sharp zinc]

I don't think he is talking about texture streaming. Just a simple settings where you can globally adjust the texture quality

[foggy mist]

better stutter than crash

and needing to spam join same world 5 times to actually join and not be kicked out of memory

[sharp zinc]

And every textures have lower resolution, it's called Mipmap. Every texture have them unless its for specific purposes

[foggy mist]

im pretty sure mobile uses that already

[green oriole]

I was actually just thinking about a global adjust. . kind of forgot about mipmaps.

This area I don't know much about, but mipmaps don't help with RAM usage right, that is what texture streaming would have helped with if it was ever implemented?

[sharp zinc]

Yes mipmap does not free up the memory unless you use the streaming mipmap feature or globally adjust the max texture resolution. VRChat does none of those

[green oriole]

Good and bad news then, good that there is something VRChat can do, bad that they still haven't implemented it.

[sharp zinc]

The devs said that streaming mipmap would be hard to implement because not every avatars are setup with this parameter but I totally agree that a global texture quality should exists in the graphics settings

[green oriole]

Isn't streaming mip maps forced to be turned on, or are you talking about something else?

Or was that worlds only. .

[foggy mist]

whatever it is its not related with external sources loaded crash

something is messed up with script

[sharp zinc]

it is forced to be turned on by the sdk, I even made a canny that was (again) completely ignored
https://feedback.vrchat.com/sdk-bug-reports/p/incorrect-texture-streaming-setting

[unborn kraken]

Rtx or rx for vr

[halcyon pebble]

How can I make particles quest compatible?

[split mason]

Can someone please find out why Dutchie Star keeps getting sent to the We’re Sorry Something went wrong world it needs to stop 🛑 she’s getting rather upset

[copper heart]

can't lmao

quest hates particles and shaders

[green oriole]

Use the allowed Quest particle shaders.

[kind trail]

My world's background music stopped working completely in the latest VRChat update. I have it set as my homeworld for testing, when I joined there was a black screen for a brief second, then it reloaded the world and there was no background music (sound effects worked). The UI displayed a message that said something along the lines of "You were sent to your homeworld because you ran out of memory" for a few secs

This never happened before the update

[stuck igloo]

My memory too

I join some worlds it happens later, and now it even gets me home during the loading

[pulsar swallow]

does any of the mobile shaders allow disabling backface culling?

[humble canyon]

There are none

[vital spoke]

Am I the only one that got severe performance issues since they published to preload worlds? Like every second my frame rate breaks down 20 fps

For example my beloved Serenity Cove, never had problems but now I drop from 50 to 30 fps and then again to 50 to just drop again and that over and over again

[kind trail]

No, the update had some really bad performance issues and memory usage issues (at least according to what a lot of quest users posted) so they rolled it back

[chilly yacht]

Hiya guys! I wanted to ask if the oculus head strap elite any good? If not does anyone have any recommendations? I wanted to buy a new headstrap for a while now and finally have the money but idk which one to get

[copper heart]

I recommend bobovr m2

good battery headstrap

[kind trail]

are there any general guides for quest world optimization when it comes to memory usage?

[nimble apex]

I personally don't know any general guides, though I do recommend Unity's memory profiler to see how much memory you're using & what's using it. In my experience, large textures (2K or higher) and large audio files tend to eat up the most amount of memory. I would aim to use less than 250MB of memory on the Quest version if possible, though I don't believe VRChat has given any official numbers on what you should aim for.

[terse vector]

I was reading through the documentation and stumbled upon this section. I'd be fascinated to understand more about how mesh combining could negatively impact performance.

I've been aiding a community map with optimization and they've experienced some weird behaviours with performance for some users and I'm wondering if this could be the culprit? I just don't know how I would tell, as I can't personally replicate the issue.

Found here https://creators.vrchat.com/platforms/android/quest-content-optimization/#:~:text=You cannot upload or access,time compression for VRChat Quest.&text=You should be aiming for,time compression for VRChat Quest.

[pure leaf]

I'd like to have an example provided because that seems like a very vague statement other than just the runtime optimization

I use MeshCombineStudio and it does an amazing job at providing a pre/post-runtime optimization workflow

It's helped immensely for Quest

[terse vector]

Its not my statement!

[pure leaf]

Oh yeah, I know. It's from that VRC page

They mention nothing else and move straight on to the avatar section after that haha

I'm excited to see VRC asking for help people testing the beta for Quest

[sharp zinc]

do we still need to use mobile shaders for quest 3

[pastel basalt]

nothing has changed between quest 2 and quest 3. quest 3 is still an Android based device just like the quest 2, and it's still nowhere near a gaming PC

it's still using a mobile chip, which means it's still doing tiled based rendering and therefore cannot do transparency well

[proper flare]

It can do better, tests would have to be done. But I don’t think anything would change. Quest 3 makes vrchat much smoother though, able to get 30frames in a server with 50 people. Compared to the 10frames

[sharp zinc]

Vrchat lags on quest now thanks yo the new update

[light nest]

how did the update improve the memory?

[sharp zinc]

Before the update it would crash everyone and say out of memory

[light nest]

after?

[sharp zinc]

Idk if it’s the issue but they re-added world preload so it’s jittering on quest

[sour ruin]

Do you guys now the max tris of quest avatars?

[humble canyon]

https://creators.vrchat.com/avatars/avatar-performance-ranking-system/#quest-limits

[sour ruin]

Tyty

[muted haven]

Quest is basically unplayable more than ever now ;-;

[hasty sand]

Fr

[undone sorrel]

Yea it keeps saying that my memory runs out and all I have is vrc and roblox

[humble canyon]

the error messages referring to Ram not the internal storage

[pearl finch]

anybody else having an issue where often you'll get caught in an unending state of freezing for a half second every two seconds

the only way to stop it is to reopen the game but oftentimes it reinitiates not long after and i have to keep closing the game

it happened when they added preloading and stopped when they took it away for a small bit, and then when preloading came back the issue came back with it

[sharp zinc]

I switched to the beta version and it stopped for me

[cosmic sapphire]

I’m having the same problem:((

[pseudo thorn]

thanks vrc for making me lag every second now /nm (??)

again

[vital spoke]

Same here, it p*sses me off

I don't care about world preloading if I sacrifice performance for it

[pseudo thorn]

fr

[pseudo thorn]

Same happening with me. I feel like it’s just too much that it needs to be optimized down to the point it doesn’t have “Preloaded Worlds”.

[proper flare]

Lag problem?

Only issues I've ran into is when preloading then joining the world I would get kicked out of world for low memory. But atleast load times and buffering issues are resolved, so it hasn't really bothered me too much.

As I can just as easily go back to the world without waiting for so long,

[pseudo thorn]

I’m gonna say this for the last time. VRChat, I don’t really care about preloading worlds, please just get rid of the fact that I keep lagging every second for atleast half a second. /nm

[proper flare]

Don’t show poorly optimized avatars, don’t join poorly optimized worlds, your headset is limited, and also I don’t think vrchat or anyone else can help you if you don’t provide what happens each time. Anything could be causes to your issues.

[sharp zinc]

Tons of people have the same issue

Also there’s clips of it happening

[proper flare]

I wouldn’t know as I haven’t had issues

I only have memory issues and that’s if I load into a world higher then 70mb

[sharp zinc]

According to some people that’s a RAM issue

[devout girder]

Hey Guys? There's a HUGE Lag problem for VRChat on Quest right now.

It just sutters every one second, for no reason.

[uneven leaf]

yeah that’s probably because of the glitchy update

[devout girder]

Mhm. It's been suuuuuuuper clunky for me these past few days.

Ranging from mildly annoying to unplayable.

[uneven leaf]

has it really gotten that bad ?

all i’ve had was a few stutters and crashes jeez

[sharp zinc]

Some people full on can’t play, it’s random for everyone

[devout girder]

Like, that's the thing. It FREEZES Constantly now.

One second, fine.

Another second, completely frozen.

One second fine, one second frozen, One second fine, one second frozen.

It's a massive pain.

[uneven leaf]

😨

[devout girder]

How can you report bugs to the VR Chat team again? I would really appreciate it.

[uneven leaf]

on the site i think

[green oriole]

@devout girder since I assume that thing causing that is related to trying to make crashing less common, is it at least crashing less?

[devout girder]

It's crashing less, Yeah.

But in turn, it's freezing allot.

Like ever 3 to 1 second.

[pseudo thorn]

ngl i have the same problem, but aswel as getting sent to my home world, getting stuck on initialising world, then getting kicked outta the app

[crystal ether]

i legit thought it was only me yes 😭

[smoky tundra]

I've been getting that too

[devout girder]

Please fix this as soon as possible, if any of the VR Chat team is seeing this.

This is rendering the game to be unplayable.

And I'm not exaggerating.

[tawny cipher]

I honestly prefer crashing once every 20 minutes to lagging or freezing every 2 seconds

[smoky tundra]

please do, I actually wanna play, not have a fucking stroke every 2 secs

It's because the preloading feature, that's when it all started-

[tawny cipher]

Yeah

It fucking sucks I hate it

[pseudo thorn]

fr

[tough warren]

Do y’all lag every few seconds like this? This has been happening for ages and I didn’t know if it was just me

[pseudo thorn]

yeah its happening to most people right now because of preloading worlds

[inner relic]

It’s sucks really, it can get as bad as to lag every half second three times and it gets incredibly annoying fast

[smoky tundra]

Can we just like, get rid of the god damn preloading feature?, it barely does shit, all it does is cause so many issues-

[sharp zinc]

Genuinely non of my friends use the preload feature

[tawny cipher]

The only thing it does is break the game

[proven hawk]

I'm hoping to develop worlds that are visually compelling on both quest & desktop with minimal differences between the two, with the added benefit of being able to host large gatherings-

I was wondering if there are any perspectives on how to budget poly count vs. texture size & material count for conveying detail; which you're likely to hit limitations sooner on when developing for a mobile processor like quest

[umbral oar]

The hell? I tried logging in VRChat via quest but after stuck at login screen it disconnects me saying timed out but on pc I login just fine

[proper flare]

I’d try reinstalling vrchat

[balmy mango]

so is it just me or is verchat straight up not ready for the quest 3

i literally cant play ANYTHING without crashing

vrc seemed fine when i was playing on the quest 2

which was like a day ago??

[zealous lagoon]

I have 2 too many Physbones?

how do i fix it?

[umbral oar]

Does this situation happen to you? In the middle the system suddenly either flashes muting your audio or even the 2 joysticks suddenly malfunctioning (freezes literally)

[feral lark]

Can we get rid of the memory low on the avatars? because I don’t understand the purpose of it being there other being annoying in my opinion.

[nimble apex]

Isn't the purpose of it to prevent you from running out of memory and crashing? I'm not on Quest, but the update changelog seems to suggest that it's rather important

[humble canyon]

it's there so that you don't crash outright and stop being able to hang out with your friends

[feral lark]

I’ll be honest it doesn’t seem important at all because some of my friends that are on quest look like pc players with there hands at their waist and I just don’t like the whole memory low idea because I like to see my friends avatars.

[humble canyon]

if that feature wasn't there you would be kicked back to your home map unable to hang out with your friends at all

[feral lark]

To be honest with you I wouldn’t mind that and I’m not trying to sound rude at all, so in advance I apologize if I do sound rude.

[humble canyon]

vrchat gets constant complaints about getting kicked back to the home space so this new feature was to prevent that

hiding avatars does take them out of memory
so you could hide strangers avatars if you're having your friends avatars get stuck with that error

[feral lark]

I guess it’s something I’m not used to yet and I hope that I can eventually get used to it

Is there any advice you might have for the memory thing I’m open to hearing more about it

[humble canyon]

about the only functional one would be don't show poor and very poor avatars as they can use more memory

& your less likely to run out in instances with smaller number of players

[pseudo thorn]

can we like forget about so many updates and just get rid of preloading? its just unplayable by now with lagging every second for about 0.5-1 second

[pearl finch]

exactly, all these updates later and the still haven't done anything about the skipping that's making the game near unplayable

[tough warren]

Does anyone know if that constant lagging due to the preloading feature is fixed?? I haven’t been on vrchat since the update so I’m unsure

[proper flare]

Check yourself , don’t know anyone else with that issue.

[fossil canyon]

Tried the update out, and it's just... fine.
I don't see why this update required the whole blocking avatar thing, when you could quite literally just do it yourself with the safety settings, or the user settings by clicking someone and blocking it that way.
To me, it feels redundant, since you could just do it yourself, or even just permanently hide avatars with the hide globally thing, but now it'll just do it for you, no matter who's wearing it, including yourself, which can be really irritating.

It can also make trying to get an avatar without a link a lot harder, since when you can't see it, you can't clone it, which is a whole other issue.

The lag also hardly went down either, every once in a while the game will stutter about two times before going back to normal, and sometimes that won't even save you.
I myself am a user that has only my friends avatars shown, and these issues still persist, plus the annoyance of not even being able to see my friends avatars anymore.

[languid gust]

I'm pretty sure they might be getting a lot of reports related to people going over the memory limit

[fossil canyon]

One of the main issues is really just how quickly quest users can get to the limit. It's really, really easy to. Cleared my cache, and I'm already a 3rd of the way full, judging by how 4 GB is considered the limit for us on average.
Seeing as how easy it is to get it full, this avatar thing can happen very often, which is going to be very aggravating, and I can see it being aggravating for quest avatar creators, or creators trying to test for quest users, as there's a good chance the avatar won't load for them because of this memory limit.

[heady wing]

It’s not related to cache, it’s related to RAM.

Previously when it got full, it would just kick you back to your home or crash

You can load others by freeing up RAM, such as by hiding other avatars.

Although it could be more clearly communicated

[fossil canyon]

Cache, at least for me, is a way to figure out what's gonna happen.
At about 4 GB, that would've been around the amount till you'd be sent home very often, and crashing being plausible.
The update before this let me get to 5 GB, before doing one of those two things, making it happen less often.
Now, it's back to 4 before no avatars could load, and even so, it takes a very, very long time before it loads said avatar, like the minimum was 2 minutes for my friends avatar to load, and nearly 5-7 minutes for another's.

[humble canyon]

the Avatar hiding stuff because low memory is entirely about Ram not Cache

[heady wing]

And size in cache ≠ size in RAM either

And the taking a long time to load would just be because the game is waiting for ram to clear

(A player leaving, switching avatars, you hiding someone’s avatar, changing worlds, reloading the game, etc)

[fossil canyon]

I know it's not. As I said, I use it as an indicator, and it's proven as an effective way to do so. Every time it reached such points, said issues would start.

[heady wing]

Fair enough

It does also sorta line up with the quests 6GB of ram (subtract 2gb for the os)