quest-optimization

[green oriole]

When you get into the process of doing a lot in Blender, it is pretty much the same, just gotta decimate some accessories to keep a good poly budget.

And hope the base you are using has a Quest port already made since automatic decimation does not leave very pretty results.

[coral raptor]

Hey all,
This is a long shot but was wondering if anyone could help me out with this.

I just received my quest 2 recently and have found vr chat on steam vr airlink to be at a very poor resolution aswell as quite glitchy/laggy at times which makes playing the game pretty unbearable. I’ve gone through multiple settings with no fix so far. I’ve noticed that Airlink on steamvr in general has this quality issue too.

I’ve heard of fixes such as attaching a seperate wifi 6 router to the pc for the quest alone, not sure how that would work with my setup (modem is downstairs, I’m connected to a booster via Ethernet upstairs)

Any help is appreciated ^^!

[graceful dust]

what are your pc specs?

[cosmic wraith]

It could just be the limits of your internet, router, or pc, but most people suggest using the link method instead. With a looong usb-c 3.0 cable and software from the oculus website, you can connect the oculus to your pc directly to reduce lag. That being said, there's a bunch of settings on your pc (driver settings and settings within the oculus link app) that you have to play with to optimize performance (I'm not super familiar with those settings myself, but there's lots of YouTube content on them).

[coral raptor]

Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-7700 CPU @ 3.60GHz 3.60 GHz
GTX 1070
16 GB Ram

[graceful dust]

i dont know about the core but else you got pretty much same stuff as me
i dont run perfectly either
i need to make sure nothing else runs at the same time

gtx 1070 barely meets pcvr requirements

but it works

[coral raptor]

Ah okay! Not sure whether I should just invest in a router to put upstairs with me now or try out the link cable and hope for the best. Already spent alot purchasing the quest and accessories, such a bummer to fork out another $180 aud for a router

[coral raptor]

I mean I don't have anything else besides a temp monitor app and task manager and I still get poor resolution/lag, didn't realize the 1070 is that low in power for vr 😅

[graceful dust]

wait 1070ti right?

not just 1070

[coral raptor]

Just the 1070

[graceful dust]

oh gosh

that supports vr?

[coral raptor]

Yep!

[graceful dust]

eesh

[coral raptor]

It runs pc games at ultra detail just fine too

[graceful dust]

can it run alyx? (if you have the game)

i have the ti

[coral raptor]

I don't have the game currently, only bought the headset last week so haven't really had the chance yet

I just wanted to fix current issues as it's a real headache to deal with sadly

[graceful dust]

ah

i mean, even with my 1070ti i sometimes get some headache inducing weird glitch effects

[coral raptor]

Although thinking about it, I live in a household that has heaps of devices connected to our one modem downstairs.
I use a booster connected via ethernet upstairs for my pc, so perhaps that may be my issue

[graceful dust]

Wait you use airlink or link cable?

i use link cable personally

[coral raptor]

It's tricky finding a solution to the internet issue as most reddit posts give advice for those who can connect directly to the modem

[graceful dust]

i got 1gb upload and 600mb download so shouldnt be an issue for me

[coral raptor]

air link so far

[graceful dust]

can you do a speed test?

[coral raptor]

Oh wow! In Australia we have terrible internet
My modem is at 100mbps and I get 80mbps upstairs with the booster

mind you my friend has terrible internet but can use the quest via airlink just fine

[sharp bolt]

your internet speed has no bearing on airlink, its your local network that's important

[coral raptor]

Ahh alright, so it could be due to having a large number of devices already on the home modem?

[sharp bolt]

depends

is your pc connected via ethernet?

or is it also over wifi via your booster as well

[coral raptor]

It's connected via ethernet to the booster
the main modem is downstairs unfortunately

So the booster would be connected via wifi I assume

[sharp bolt]

so this booster is basically receiving wifi from your main router downstairs and your pc connects to it over ethernet?

[coral raptor]

Correct!

[sharp bolt]

yeah thats definitely the problem then

[coral raptor]

Really inconvenient set up

[sharp bolt]

because what happens is when you use airlink, your pc transmits the audio/video over ethernet to your booster, which gets sent to your router downstairs

[coral raptor]

Ahhhh

[sharp bolt]

and then, it gets retransmitted from your router downstairs back to your booster, and then to your headset presumably

and because the send/receive is over the same wifi network, your network speed for that is effectively halved, depending on your router if it has mu-mimo support etc

also doesn't help that because you're that far from your router requiring a booster, your signal strength probably isnt the best either

[coral raptor]

So if there is any solution, I've read that purchasing a wifi 6 router to connect to the pc as a repeater for the quest may be a fix? would that work in this situation?

[sharp bolt]

depends what you mean by that

[humble canyon]

honestly I probably just hook it up to a Link cable?

[sharp bolt]

if your pc has a second ethernet port, then yeah you could plug it into a router and have a separate dedicated wifi network just for your airlink

[coral raptor]

I'm just going off information I found through older reddit posts, thought this may work

[sharp bolt]

but if your pc only has one, then you'd effectively be using that router as a bridge to your main network downstairs anyway

that might allow your quest to airlink directly with your pc over the local network maybe?

I am not familiar with bridge networking with routers to say for certain if that's the case

What Is Bridge Mode? Bridge mode is a networking feature that allows two routers together. When it enabled, it essentially turns the respective router into a switch.

if its acting like a switch then yeah, it should let your quest connect to your pc directly without having to go through your router downstairs

[coral raptor]

Unfortunately I only have one Ethernet port (thought I had two)!
So it may be a bit of a gamble as to whether it would work but essentially that would then replace my current isp provided booster and act as a stronger one? Apologies, these things aren't my strong suite!

[sharp bolt]

a booster is essentially just a repeater, it rebroadcasts whatever it receives, and doesn't do any routing

which is why everything has to go back to your main router and back

using a router as a network bridge, it can do the above, while also routing network traffic accordingly. that means that when it sees your quest wanting to talk to your pc, because it knows your pc is connected to it directly, it'll just forward that network traffic directly, rather than having to go back to your main router.

[coral raptor]

Alrighty! Honestly that seems like a good solution, I'll have a look into some decent routers now
Thank you so much for your help! I really appreciate it

[sharp bolt]

I am not 100% on that though so maybe do a bit more research

[coral raptor]

Will do, I can always test it out and return it to the store if it doesn't do the trick also

[rare ridge]

hey yall ive been told that baking with cats is at least a start to getting a pc avatar to work as a fallback but this is all that happens. anyone know how to fix this or am i just being dumb

actually before anyone tries to answer i just caught the latest release of cats has a specific version of blender that it supports. not sure why i didnt catch that before

alright just a wrong version. that shows that reading the instructions is actually helpful

[coral raptor]

So ended up purchasing a router, connected it via ethernet to my pc as a repeater and unfortunately nothings been fixed, resolution is still terrible

[sharp bolt]

you don't want it as a repeater, you want it as a network bridge

[coral raptor]

Just swapped it to media bridge, now the oculus won't connect with the pc via airlink (Can't seem to win ;-;')

Media bridge doesn't create any new separate wireless networks to join either strangely

[sharp bolt]

media bridge?

[coral raptor]

it's one of the only options that mentions anything to do with bridging in the router setup

[sharp bolt]

if you're using an asus router, I think you'll want to use the Ai Mesh feature

media bridge does sound like wireless bridge though?

oh, you'll definitely want Ai Mesh

[sharp bolt]

does the router you got support meshing/ai mesh? because that's the one you want. Just went and checked and as it turns out, as wireless bridge the router uses the wifi exclusively for talking with your other router, and cannot connect to clients except over ethernet. Mesh on the other hand will allow both.

[coral raptor]

Unfortunately it seems mesh needs a second ASUS router now as it won’t work with my isp provided modem

Which is another $170

[sharp bolt]

that's unfortunate, sorry it didn't work out

[coral raptor]

Definitely is, thanks for helping

[sharp bolt]

I take it running a cable from main router to where your pc is isnt an option? heh

[coral raptor]

Ahh unfortunately not, my pc room is upstairs whilst the modem is in the living room downstairs

And the modem can’t be moved due to it being fixed to the wall (thanks Australian internet)

[sharp bolt]

is this one of those modem router combos?

[coral raptor]

I think so, it’s connected to the nbn here

[sharp bolt]

I guess getting a link cable is your next best option

you could look into power line ethernet adaptors but that's more investment

but before you return the router

[coral raptor]

I think so 😓
I mean I could try purchasing a second router but I just don’t know if it’ll actually fix the issue

[sharp bolt]

just do a test, and connect your pc and quest to your router on its own network, meaning disconnected from the internet

and see if its performance is better

it would still work for offline games and what not after all

[coral raptor]

Not sure exactly how to do that? It needs to connect to the modem downstairs to be able to get any internet though

[sharp bolt]

you don't need internet to use air link

at least, i don't think so? I mainly use virtual desktop

all Airlink does is connect to your PC over your local network

it would be silly to require internet access if you want to play single player games for example

but then again this is facebook/meta so idk

[coral raptor]

Ahh right, I don't have Virtual Desktop

[sharp bolt]

but you'd just set your router to ap mode and connect your pc and quest to it

[coral raptor]

Okay, I'll try that now

[sharp bolt]

you wouldnt have internet access, but the quest should be able to connect to your pc

but the point is to test and see if your airlink situation is improved

so you know for certain this was the cause

[coral raptor]

Unfortunately the quest can’t find an IP address to connect to, I don’t think this option will work sadly

If I do look into installing a second modem upstairs, it’s still quite unsettling to not know if it’ll 100% fix the issue

[karmic sorrel]

Ohhhh, meshed network. Not 3D meshes... That was a bit confusing.

[sharp zinc]

Hello everyone! @here

We've just launched VRChat 2022.2.2 into Open Beta.

The VRChat "Security Update" includes the integration Easy Anti-Cheat, which will prevent the usage of client modifications. It also includes the implementation of Secure Instances, which enforces instances rules on portals and instance links.

We know there's a lot to unpack there, so we wrote a blog post for you! It should answer your questions. Please check it out: https://hello.vrchat.com/blog/vrchat-security-update

This update has entered Open Beta just now, and barring any major issues we plan on releasing this update in 24 hours, same time tomorrow. If you wish to participate in the Open Beta, please see open-beta-info and open-beta-announcements . this sucks

[slow hearth]

everyone can read #announcements, no need to post this yourself

[sharp zinc]

shut up

[slow hearth]

besides, this is a big W for questies, less client users to crash their ass

[sharp zinc]

shut yo ass up

[slow hearth]

awie dont be mad 😄

[sharp zinc]

im not mad my ears got a weight limit fatass

[turbid plume]

Onggg

[slow hearth]

ya, you got it on the limit all by yourself already 😬

[sharp zinc]

Brazil

[ashen crane]

i do want to point out that avatars can still crash quest userss but sure its only client users lol

[slow hearth]

i said less, not only. Of course it aint gonna stop but from a standalone player's perspective this is a win

[ashen crane]

this is more of a loss to a lot of people though. Cause now as an avatar creator we wont have any means to know that our avatar has been ripped lol. but sure i guess take your small w

[slow hearth]

🤷 i play PCVR, was just discussing that this announcement doesnt really matter for quest channels

[ashen crane]

ah okie

[slow hearth]

and knowing if your models has been ripped or not doesnt help at all lol

[ashen crane]

❤️

[slow hearth]

its still out there

[ocean ingot]

sorry wrong place

[oblique flare]

bahahah

[sharp zinc]

How to fix the funky looking pants and black thing in the ear ?

[candid scroll]

Turn smoothness all the way down

Black things on ears is the fur that avi wasn’t made for quest so you got to change everything yourself pretty much

[sharp zinc]

Yeah, I’m trying to make it quest compatible so my friends can see it, I tried turning smoothness down but it looks the same

One more thing, the hand and tattoos are white when they should be gold 😅

[upper granite]

you could try putting the shader on standard for pc and standard lite for quest and set the albedo color to whatever color you want

[violet jewel]

can someone help

my game keeps crashing on the login screen

[graceful dust]

eac

?

[winged ingot]

When that happens to me I reset my headset

[topaz pulsar]

My game keeps crashing whenever im in my world and try to load a menu on both quests2's and I've factory reset them mutiple times. I'm at a loss

[vague valley]

That's so weird

[topaz pulsar]

I have been experiencing this for around 4 months. it only did it to my 2nd quest as soon as I got it but, not to my first one up untill 3 weeks ago so im pretty much not allowed to play I guess. Like it lets me log in through oculus but thats about it, and even that it will lag on that screen

Edit: I tried it and now it won't even load into my world

[crude mica]

Having a bit of an issue with making quest compatible avatars.

I've bought a prefab one that had quest support included so I could get a reference for how things should be done.

Also in an attempt to make it as optimised as possible, I've decimated the mesh, baked into one skinned mesh render and compressed the texture sizes.

The stats left for the avatar:
20k polygons.
8mb overall build size
All using VRC mobile standard lit shader.
2 materials.

Despite this when I switch the build target to android and select this avatar it won't build it at all.
All the options are greyed out.

So I reload the SDK, try again.
Close and reopen the unity project, try again.
But nothing seems to work.
Still able to build for quest on the prefab model I have that's in the same scene.

Any suggestions? Might have forgotten something obvious I'm very new to this.

[stable sage]

I have any issue were vrchat just keeps shutting down idk why it does it since no other games ever do it any suggestions how to fix it?

[low elbow]

anyone knowss why si that happening ?

im on oculus quest D-link

[heady wing]

If you have other avatars in the scene, disable them

[crude mica]

When you say disable, do you mean hide them in the hierarchy - or does that mean something else? (Sorry if that's a dumb question, I'm quite new to this)

[heady wing]

In the inspector (on the right by default), there is a checkbox next to the name of the object, this is a tick by default, and that means the object is enabled (being visible and active). To disable it, click the checkbox and the avatar should disappear from the scene, which still being available in the hierarchy.

I can provide very low quality images if you need

[heady wing]

I am so tired rn I mixed up left and right here

The inspector is on the right

[crude mica]

I suppose that makes sense. So if there are avatars in the scene that are enabled and also cannot be published to the android build platform, then it won't allow you to publish one that is.

That's a very useful tip thank you very much.

Now to make all my avatars visible for quest hahaha

[heady wing]

It’s a very common issue that people come across, no clue how it happens, but it does (could be shaders or some other blocking error on the other avatars). Anyway good luck with that!

[crude mica]

Also probably doesn't help that a lot of my avatars have references to assets not present in the scene in trying to build from.

I suppose disabling them would also make the build target switching faster too.

[heady wing]

That too

[crude mica]

I do wish there was an option for some better shaders on the Android platform though.

Even just a parallax heightmap would be greatl.

[digital thunder]

HI HI HELLO I THINK THIS IS WHERE ID ASK THIS QUESTION??? how would i go about putting a color shift effect that is also quest compatible,,,, i've seen quest avatars do it before so theres definitely SOME sorta way!!! i just cannot for the life of me figure out HOW

[clear wharf]

https://youtu.be/92PusEHSSms?t=134

Hope this helps?????

[digital thunder]

THANK U this method wont rlly work for what im tryna do but its super helpful for the future!!!

[crimson mantle]

is there like any way to make transparency for quest work?

[slow hearth]

No

No audio, no transparency, no constraints, no bitches

[graceful dust]

some avatars manage to have audio and lights tho

I dunno and I dont really care anymore
Ive been banned 🤷‍♀️

[past hearth]

A public avatar I have actually managed to somehow have a kind of transparency so it is possible. I don't know how it was done, but a way to do it exists.

[crimson mantle]

everything is good only the polygons are on very poor and because of that i cant upload it???

[green oriole]

No, you should still be able to upload, something is either just not being warned about, or the SDK is broken.
Try restarting Unity.

[radiant osprey]

Make sure to remove any other avatars from the scene. Other avatars, even if they're disabled, will prevent you from uploading to quest

[crimson mantle]

agh now i feel stupid 💀 ty it worked

its still "very poor" but i dont think thats a big issue

[bold zenith]

Is there anyway to get two-sided rendering (cull: off) in any of the quest shaders? Or do I just double up my mesh?

[humble canyon]

you just need to double up the mesh for the spots where you can see both sides

[bold zenith]

Mhm. Figured that was probably the case.

[humble canyon]

if you used a Shader to disable backface calling it would still have to render all those triangles even if they're hidden inside the Avatar so doubling up some triangles only on like the parts you can see is rendering less overall

[bold zenith]

Doesn't the quest have some optimisations to not render a lot of that anyway?

[humble canyon]

well it wouldn't if you used a Shader that disables backface culling because you told it to disable that optimization

[bold zenith]

Not that specific optimisation, other funky mobile GPU stuff

To not run the fragment shader on fragments that aren't visible.

I'll have to do some testing at some point

[latent holly]

hello! i can upload my quest avatar.. even though i have like.. 100 000 faces on blender?

Apparently, i must be under 10 000, but im quite far

woould my quest friend be able to see me ? x3

[humble canyon]

that would probably give them very bad frame rate considering that would make you a very poor avatar on PC from triangles

[latent holly]

The reason i have so much faces, is because, i was putting lot of Cloths on my avatar through blender, so i can make multiples toggles out of them.. so.. most of them wouldn't be seen

would it still be a problem though? :x

[humble canyon]

that would probably be better for your quest users performance if that was different avatars as they still have to load all of the rest of the outfits in vram when not in use as they still have to load all of the rest of the outfits in vram when not in use

[latent holly]

Ohh i see~ thank you ❤️

[latent holly]

my rindo avatar, is at 43 000 faces by default :x

i never made a quest compatible, but like.. does that mean no quest user would be able to see my avatar when they enter the lobby, they would have to click on "Show avatar" on me?

would they be laggy when looking at me?

[humble canyon]

yes they would have to show the avatar

and for reference it can be a separate model on Quest compared to the PC version so you can make it more optimized

[slim coral]

how do I know which physbones are safe to get rid of?

[graceful dust]

any physbones related to pvt parts

Well actually

You could remove every physbones
And it would work fine

But you wouldnt have physics

[slim coral]

I just want a few in like the hair still and the wings but im only allowed to have 8

[graceful dust]

then remove all the others?

breasts and butt
man i hate avatars with exaggeratef phys bones there

Ears

You can already remove 12

24/8

I'd say scroll down

[slim coral]

I did the physbones part and retextured, is there a way to do emissions on quest? Also any tips for quest hue shift?

[graceful dust]

If by emission you mean light, I don't think it is possible
If by emission you mean the emission property, Standard Lite shader can

[slim coral]

thank you although I screwed up on some of the physbones and I have no idea how to lower these

[terse wyvern]

When my game starts I instantiate an array of 900 instances, each with 8 polys- They don't have any code, just a renderer with a more-or-less unlit shader. Will the quest handle this ?

[slow hearth]

wdym "handle this"

ya aint allowed custom shaders on quest

[terse wyvern]

I don't know how Unity manages instances, I'm just wondering if this will drop the FPS majorly due to depth sorting or something

and I have written plenty of shaders for Quest. It's just avatars that don't allow it

[slow hearth]

i am obviously talking about avatar shaders, but i guess the channel doesnt specify avatar/world

[slow hearth]

so let me rephrase "ya aint allowed custom shaders on quest avatars"

[terse wyvern]

I don't think you can instantiate instances on avatars hehe

No worries though it's fine

[slow hearth]

and a 900 of anything on the standard lite shader would probably be too much, yeah

[muted oak]

Anyone know any flame animations that work on quest

[cloud shoal]

I've seen one before on an iron man and mando avatar i dont who made them tho

[gaunt summit]

I know its possible, but particles on a Quest avatar will make headsets lag. Thats why they get a "Poor" rating

[hardy horizon]

Is there a reason box-projection for reflection cubes is disabled for Quest?

Reflections are oversized on Quest, and it just accentuates the low-res nature of them.

[tepid sapphire]

I had made it target android for the build and this error came up (it was fine with it was a windows build)

[shrewd dune]

I need help 😫

[hard python]

Newbag here, what does this mean?

[green oriole]

Material are what determines how parts of your avatar should look,

Combining materials shouldn't often be something you'll be able to do.
But if you have an avatar, or world, where 1 or more things use the same textures, then you should reuse the material (and turn on GPU instancing), unless you are incapable for some reason (which you can be if you are doing something advanced)

And atlasing is a thing done in Blender (or with the paid Unity package Polytool) which stiches together the textures that the materials use into a bigger texture (and mapping every bit of the mesh to the correct part of the new, bigger, texture) and in the end you have fewer materials.

Fewer materials are very good, because each one costs a draw call and they are computationally expensive (relatively, since they are done every frame), so the fewer, the better.

Now removing that extra material for Quest isn't going to do much, but if you want it as optimized as realistically possible, then that is what you do.

However, even though I am passionate about people learning and doing optimization, it is better if you learn how to upload things using Unity first

[wispy locust]

When will vrchat make a performance ranking adjustmwnt fir the quest 2 and the comming quest 3?

[humble canyon]

they've already adjusted it for the Quest 2 as the triangle count available used to be half what they were now

[radiant osprey]

"Quest 3" will have the exact same specs as the Quest 2

[ashen crest]

You fr think so?

[radiant osprey]

I'm positive

[ashen crest]

Why's that?

[radiant osprey]

Wasn't the specs for it already leaked?

[ashen crest]

Can't find anything on it, only article is someone saying meta signed a deal to make oled screens possibly for the nest quest

[radiant osprey]

Is this referring to Cambria or an entirely different headset?

[ashen crest]

The quest 3 from this article https://www.tomsguide.com/news/oculus-quest-3-release-date-rumors-specs-news

According to Brad Lynch(opens in new tab), a VR analyst, the Cambria will use mini-LED technology, whereas the Quest 3 will have uOLED displays. The expected resolution for the Quest 3 is 4,128 by 2,208 pixels or 2,064 by 2,208 pixels per eye. This represents a 30% upgrade over the Meta Quest 2’s 1,920 by 1,832 pixels per eye.

[radiant osprey]

Okay the Quest 3 is seperate

I was talking about Cambria

[ashen crest]

ah right

[slow hearth]

Quest 3 aint cambria, the cambria is basically the quest 2 Pro

Same specs but with extra stuff like eye tracking for people to mess with

[radiant osprey]

Right I wasn't even aware of a Quest 3

[wispy locust]

Ehats with the cloud gaming? I mean eith a good internet, you can gave pc like performance because the computing is not happening inside the HMD... so a better avatar ranking should be made, also because the ureent one is still based for the quest 1!

[edgy patio]

Eye tracking for quest 3?!

[slow hearth]

for cambria, we have literally zero actual news on quest 3

[severe yoke]

I have a Predator Helios 300 with an RTX 2060; when I play via a Kiwi Cable I am running into quite a few issues with performance. Even when set down to the 72HZ default settings I find it hard to play through 30mins without the cable either saying it was disconnected or VRChat freezing.

When I run this through SteamVR I can recover from a crash much faster; but if I encounter a crash in the Rift VRChat app going back ingame results in the avatar in the ground.

When monitoring FPS I can only get roughly 80MAX in the default home world; but when going into public lobbies (With all Avatars OFF) I still hang around 30FPS

The Screen Tearing is Less Noticeable when No Avatars are being shown; once I begin to attempt to show any the screen tearing is very noticeable

Other than switch to Virtual Desktop to see if preformance can be better through that method, what other options do I have to fix this?

I have gone through windows settings to ensure the applications are using the Nvidia GPU rather than the intel integrated GPU. I have also gone through all the USB device manager settings to ensure that windows is not effecting the power usage

[slow hearth]

lower resolution and get a better computer

tighten up your safety settings

pray to god or something

a mobile rtx2060 is on the lower end of decent VR cards

and VRChat is an specially demanding game on your CPU/GPU due to unoptimized user content

[severe yoke]

So I have the CPU running at 4.1GHZ now and have played around with overclocking the GPU as well

[slow hearth]

uhh i wouldnt underclock anything

[green oriole]

Overclocking can make it worse, Laptop power budget is very limiting.

[slow hearth]

look into undervolting if you're into that

it'll make the card run cooler, and nvidia makes use of that to boost clocks when it has room

[severe yoke]

So I had it undervolting to 2.7GHZ earlier but put it back to the default 4.1ghz speed its set to but will try going back and forth to see what works better

[radiant osprey]

Laptops are just not good gaming devices unfortunately. I have a laptop with a 3060 and it still has much worse performance than my desktop with a 2060 Super. If you want performance you'll really need a desktop

[slow hearth]

i said undervolting, not underclocking

lowering the voltage makes the card spend less energy, and output less heat which is great for a laptop

at little to no performance cost if you do it right

[severe yoke]

Ahh so reduce the GPUs power consumptions ill try to look into that to and see if anything helps

[slow hearth]

(since the clocks continue at the same hz)

depending on your CPU you can undervolt that as well, but some laptop manufacturers don't let you do that

i remember intel being annoying about it years ago, not sure how it is today

[green oriole]

I find it hard to play through 30mins without the cable either saying it was disconnected

You got a bad cable, it shouldn't be like that. Wireless is ironically less prone to problems, unless an update breaks it, which it did with v42-v43. Wireless still works, but now it has hiccups for some people.

Other than switch to Virtual Desktop to see if preformance can be better through that method, what other options do I have to fix this?

If you use Airlink and Link and play a SteamVR game then to squeeze out every bit of performance you want to use programs like OculusKiller https://github.com/OpenOculus/OculusKiller.
This doesn't apply if you use Virtual Desktop since that same overhead doesn't exist.

You should try Airlink, if it is laggy then your Wifi setup could be poor and Virtual Desktop wouldn't work either.

[severe yoke]

So when testing out Air Link I am getting very similar results regarding FPS as on the Cable itself; 60-80FPS in default home world; 30-60FPS in a public world (hangs closer to 30) I opened up Task Manager and notice the GPU is only using 30%

[radiant osprey]

You will almost ALWAYS be CPU limited in VRC. It's very rare to have your GPU above 90% unless you're running the latest i7/i9

[severe yoke]

Sot the CPU is running at 30% as well according to windows task manager; Ill keep playing around with it as it is getting slightly better than earlier before posting it was less than 30FPS; Its a Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-9750H CPU @ 2.60GHz 2.59 GHz

[radiant osprey]

That's normal. The general rule is if your GPU is not at 95%+, you are CPU limited

[green oriole]

Should clarify, what I meant was to test Airlink before getting Virtual desktop, because if the wifi network is weak then the experience would be choppy because of network latency.
The actual performance in VRChat will be about the same with Airlink as with Link.

The upside Virtual Desktop has is that it usually works better on weaker computers

[severe yoke]

I might try to buy it and see if I gain any performance boost; I havn't really compared to what the FPS is on Desktop either

So when I run it on Desktop I am hitting 140FPS in the default home world rather than 70FPS within the wire or airlink headunit

And it is at about 80FPS within a busy public lobby All Avatars Showing

Do you think virtual desktop will have similar FPS when running; and why might the FPS be dropping when on AirLink or a Hardwire

[green oriole]

It is more that Virtual Desktop is more customizeable, or far more easily customizeable than Airlink/Link.

Airlink and Virtual Desktop do require more of different things, so it depends a lot on the setup which is better.

Good thing is that you can try it out and refund it if it doesn't help.

[severe yoke]

So when running in virtual desktop the performance in general is much better especialy on handling a load of multiple avatars loading in; It still runs at around 37FPS but I would say appears to be smoothing. So is it that when piping the video or however each method works is causing the lower FPS compared to running it in desktop mode?

[radiant osprey]

37Fps is pretty standard in full worlds. You're not going to get much more unless you get a higher-spec PC

[green oriole]

I always get these things confused, but I think Airlink required more VRAM, while VD required more CPU.
In any case, not having to run the Oculus app is going to save you VRAM, which does allow for more avatars to be loaded in.

It is really hard to find the technical differences between Airlink and VD, so I cannot back up the claims there, but the less VRAM from not running the Oculus app is true.

But it seems like Virtual desktop does more compression to the image, which incurs a CPU cost, while Airlink doesn't compress it as much, which makes it take up more space in VRAM. Worth knowing, if you do not, that compression doesn't always mean a worse image, a better compression algorithm can just take more processor time.

[hardy badger]

is anyone else's quest map loading time ABYSSMALLY slow?

[sharp zinc]

Before my computer could run vr desktop in my quest 2 about 20 to 30 fps and resolution around 1000x1000, i have changed absolutely nothing and after a few weeks now it is unusable, it goes 3 fps for resolution less than 500x500, launch my desktop on my vr through airlink and i've allways had done so, and my computer's stats are not that low for it to run that crappy

[green oriole]

Might work, might not, there is a launch option in Steam that I have heard works, you just enter --fps=90 or something, could try 100.

[sharp zinc]

Well, the problem is

It's when i just barely launch the desktop menu on the quest 2 that it gets that scrap crap performance and resolution

And sometimes i have to click several times on the steam app for it to open and then close it self again

The entire menu goes 2 fps resolution 500x500

Not only pcvr steam games launched on the quest 2

And the maximum band width it lets me to set is only 200mbps, which is extremely low

[lost torrent]

is there a reason why the quest shaders do not give textures their own individual tiling/offset parameters?

context: i'm working with a normal map that affects a small portion of the avatar. on PC, I've cropped the normal map down to 256x32, set the wrap mode to clamp, and used the tiling and offset parameters to resize/position the normal map into the right place. this appears to be impossible using the available quest shaders.

(is the reason just "that's a really weird thing to do so we cut it out to save a bit of performance in the general case?)

[sharp zinc]

The thing is, my computer can actually run pcvr stuff, it might be an auto-update of the quest 2 that happened without warning nor me having it noticed and now it performs with worse quality AND performance

[green oriole]

You mean your issue comes from opening the SteamVR dashboard?

[green oriole]

No, that is the max the hardware decoder in the Quest 2 can handle.

[slow hearth]

Link lets you up it to 500 officially, and 955 unofficially 😄
Bitrate doesn't really matter on most games after you set about 250mbps, but a couple of games like skyrimvr (lots of foliage) and simracing games (sharp detail on the horizon) i can notice a difference up to 350mbps, but still a bit niche

[slow hearth]

That's normal, its like that for everyone

Its a limit for the sake of keeping a low latency and not choking out the network due to wireless limits

[sharp zinc]

No, when i barely open airlink it is already performing 2 fps -500x500 resolution

[sharp zinc]

Can that limit be extended by using cable?

[slow hearth]

Yes

Buf if your pc is shitting itself like that then you got other issues

Make sure you are connecting to a 5ghz network, not a 2,4ghz one

[green oriole]

I do not know why it would be the cause, but after Airlink was launched people discovered that I think messing with the bitrate setting in the Oculus Debug tool caused issues like this, it was either that you had to set it to 0 or something bigger than 0, but below unrealistic levels that would choke the hardware decoder.

[sharp zinc]

I will try to set it back to 10, although when it was at 10 it was like it is now

Before it could go perf- not perfectly fine but yes acceptable, 30 fps and resolution around 900x900 probably,

[green oriole]

Try setting it to 0 or 1 then.

[sharp zinc]

Minimum is 10 and it can be set only in a number that is multiple of 5

5, 10, 15, 20, 25 and etc.

All the way up to 200

[green oriole]

In the Oculus debug tool?

[sharp zinc]

No, in the airlink menu

I went to the icon of the goggles and set the bit rate higher

Because at the begining it was all bad already

And on graphics it's all enabled so i have the worst performance but when i click on something to disable it it can't get disabled, it reenables it self again

And it was all like that by default

[green oriole]

Well the bug I know of is gotten through changing the bitrate (or whatever setting it was) in the Oculus Debug Tool.

[sharp zinc]

How do i access that tool?

[green oriole]

Not got any experience with Airlink settings, have just barely done enough to test it, I just use Virtual Desktop.

[sharp zinc]

I don't have virtual desktop

[green oriole]

It is in the installation folder, here "C:\Program Files\Oculus\Support\oculus-diagnostics"

[green oriole]

Just mentioned it because that is where my knowledge about this is centered.

[sharp zinc]

Does anyone here know about it but for airlink?

[sharp zinc]

In the quest 2?

[green oriole]

An important thing you should test is see if it is bitrate related or performance related, if it is bitrate related then the FPS will still be the same.

[green oriole]

No, on your computer.

The Oculus PC software is what determines all the settings

[sharp zinc]

How do i install the oculus software in my pc?

Or how do i know if i actually have it installed

Is one of those programs the oculus software?

[sharp zinc]

And if yes then why don't i have that folder which you are talking about?

[green oriole]

The Oculus software is the top one, you wouldn't be able to do Airlink or Link without it.

[green oriole]

Windows is weird and changes names on some folders, should be the programData one, if it isn't look in "Programme", you just want to find a folder called "Oculus"

[sharp zinc]

It was in programme

Which one should i change?

Nevermind, i will just play with the settings until i get the best results i can

[green oriole]

Should be on of the settings under the Oculus Link section, but it all seems correct.

Still to actually narrow down the issue you would have to figure out if it is bitrate or performance related.
I don't think it is related to bitrate anymore, so guess the question goes to, why has it started performing this badly.

Could you just post what specs your computer has?

[sharp zinc]

I set the dynamic bitrate max to 1 and the airlink menu works 60 fps resolution 1200x1200 more or less

Now the steamvr is still a problem

But at least i have solved half the problem

[sharp zinc]

One sec

[green oriole]

Huh.
Surprised myself by actually giving you the correct answer for a bug that has been around since Airlink launched, why is it still here.

[green oriole]

Performance problem or was it something else?

[sharp zinc]

It was performance (fps and the giant screen teleporting too slow) and graphics quality (resolution)

Resolution is a smaller problem now with that one change, but fps and the screen freezing for a few seconds is still a problem

If you turn around fast enough you will see the void that hides behind that one giant screen

I will send a picture taken from my phone instead because now for some reason my laptop doesn't want to let me make screenshots

@green oriole

And in the beginning i could just run everything fine

The problem started like this week (or that is when i noticed it because i didn't play with the VR for a long while)

I hadn't changed any software, any setting, absolutely nothing, and i found it running airlink just like that

[green oriole]

If you go into taskmanager (ctrl+shift+esc to bring it up quickly), show more info at the bottom, then go into the second tab at the top and scroll down it should list a GPU, just tell me if there are two or not.

Thing is that I know it is possible to "run" VR on the integrated graphics of a 4700u at least, it just isn't a very good experience at all and I thought Airlink would hardblock you from doing that.

[sharp zinc]

Only one GPU

[green oriole]

That is because the FPS is too low.
Can very much recommend installing OculusKiller https://github.com/OpenOculus/OculusKiller, it removes most of the overhead using Airlink and playing SteamVR games cause.

Alternatively, play VRChat without SteamVR

Is probably the better option

Just install it in the Oculus PC app

[sharp zinc]

Do i install that on the pc or the Quest 2?

[green oriole]

Open the Oculus app here, go to the store and install VRChat https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/565256323118268446/1011674795877871737/unknown.png

Installing it on your Quest 2 would make VRChat run on the Quest 2.
Although the experience would be better just doing it that way.

Even if you loose out on PC content

[sharp zinc]

I've had a quite good experience on standalone VRChat in the Quest 2

But it's better with pcvr

I've played already VRChat launched from steamvr

Is just this week when it got worse

[sharp zinc]

What does it do exactly? What happens when i install it?

[green oriole]

As said, it is better if you just install VRChat through the Oculus PC program.

But it stops the Oculus menu from working, which saves a ton of performance, HOWEVER, running it from the Oculus PC store is just plain better if you do not need any SteamVR features, like full body tracking or overlays

[sharp zinc]

I need the SteamVR features

Extra avatars and maps and content available

So if i don't plan using Quest 2 standalone i should install that program?

[green oriole]

No, VRChat installed from the Oculus PC store/program is the same as SteamVR, the only things that differ are those features I listed above (FBT and overlays)

It gets very confusing trying to talk about the Oculus PC store and the Quest store, but they are very different

[sharp zinc]

No, when i play VRChat from Quest 2 standalone it does not let me to use all of the avatars i have, overall the massive space marines with bolters and everything hd

But with SteamVR i can use all of that and more

[green oriole]

The Oculus PC store https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/565256323118268446/1011674795877871737/unknown.png
This one, doesn't have those limitations.
You can use all the same avatars and see the same worlds as you can on SteamVR.

[sharp zinc]

WHAT!!

[green oriole]

The limitations is because of hardware, stuff installed through the Oculus PC store is running on your PC, not your headset.

[sharp zinc]

https://tenor.com/view/what-wat-game-glitch-gif-8322008

Ok so i just use the oculus store instead of Quest 2 standalone?

You are saying that they are NOT the same?

[green oriole]

And don't worry about you being alone with having thought this, I try so much to differentiate them, but most people do not even know the Oculus PC store exists.

[sharp zinc]

Don't they?

Well, i just thought it was the same thing as the store from Quest 2

[green oriole]

The Oculus PC store was around before the Quest was a thing, it is what you used to play with your Oculus Rift headsets.
Games on it are pretty much (excluding FBT and overlays) just the same as their SteamVR versions.

[sharp zinc]

https://tenor.com/view/dies-gif-19846928

OMG i will feel like god!

[green oriole]

And Oculus Rift headsets HAD to use a computer, they weren't capable of anything standalone.

[sharp zinc]

So i just use Oculus store and it will feel like playing SteamVR? And will it have better performance?

Better fps, better resolution?

[green oriole]

It will run better, but do not expect miracles, you are still running on laptop hardware that wasn't meant for even normal gaming.

[sharp zinc]

Still better than Quest 2 standalone

[green oriole]

Still surprised it even lets you play with that laptop.

[sharp zinc]

Well, i can run War Thunder 30-40 fps with minimum graphics

And i can play GTA5 Online with this thing too

Just quite poorly, but i still can

[green oriole]

I can recommend putting your laptop upside down like this when in VR, gives it a bit more air to cool with.

[sharp zinc]

What do you think about this set up?

I wont put it upside down because i will also use it a bit

And i can use the ping-pong ball for extra distance and air-flow

What do you think?

(The fan plate does not help, it blows barely harder than a fly)

(Only for extra distance)

[green oriole]

That is probably fine, I don't think you'd see much of a difference putting it upside down with that much space underneath.

[sharp zinc]

And the large fan on my desk will surely help a lot too

[sharp zinc]

I am still having problems with that

As soon as i launch VRChat on the desktop menu it goes all to resolution 500x500 1fps-

I guess i will have to say good bye to all of those cool pcvr features for the sake of performance and resolution

Until the link cable arrives

[green oriole]

Did you set the resolution like this?

[green oriole]

Also Link cable won't change anything, the only difference between it and Airlink is how it transports the video, it still works the same.

There is a smidge of a difference in performance between them, but not enough to matter usually.

[sharp zinc]

I did that too

[sharp zinc]

It will improve the game a lot, because in the computer the transmission of the game shows up full resolution 60fps+

So it will surely improve things a lot

[green oriole]

Well that is why you should do some testing and see what FPS VRChat reports.
If you cannot do it in VRChat then you can do that with SteamVR and its performance graph available in its settings.

if only Airlink had a performance graph like Virtual Desktop. . .

[sharp zinc]

What do you mean with what fps vrchat reports?

[sharp zinc]

The performance graph in SteamVR is allways on thehalf or above, and allways red

Only when i close VRChat it goes down

I only get the chance to play VRChat on Quest 2 standalone now, as if the time i have played on SteamVR was a demo or some sort of premium account but i buyed nothing

[green oriole]

That would indicate that your computer cannot keep up.
If it was related to bitrate, then it would have been fine and only then would a link cable help.

[sharp zinc]

But why can't it anymore?

Before it was completely capable

I think the problem is that when i decide to start up SteamVR i already had played a while and the computer got too hot

And before i just launched SteamVR as soon as the computer got started up

Maybe the problem is the heat

[green oriole]

Heat would make sense, it is a laptop

A non-gaming laptop

Using a processor and GPU meant for being competent at general stuff

[sharp zinc]

Yeah, and instead of being a huge brick box it's a paper thin plate of plastic laptop with electronics and no room for refrigeration systems

I thought tech should evolve forwards, not backwards

I just hope other things didn't evolve backwards just like laptops did

[green oriole]

Well, it isn't a very new chip, we're already on 6000 series AMD CPUs in laptops.
The 4000 series, was quite a bit more efficient and a sizeable jump over the 3000 series you have.

[sharp zinc]

I will begin only using this laptop for things that can be only one on laptop and take less time playing other things that are not pcvr

So that when i want to i can play pcvr

And i think maybe it could help me doing more stuff rather than play videogames only and all day long

[sharp zinc]

I have tried to open the pcvr menu barely after my pc started up

Guess what

It didn't work

And my laptop is way over the minimum specs for pcvr on quest 2

And in the task manager the GPU shows up like burning down

[radiant osprey]

Sounds like you might have a hardware issue

[slow hearth]

Sounds like a skill issue

[green oriole]

Mm, the laptop you show in this picture is faaaaaaar below minimum spec https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/565256323118268446/1011702466070454302/20220823_202221.jpg

A Ryzen 3700u with no dedicated graphics is not very fast.

[slow hearth]

3700u w/ no dedicated gpu? Running VR on a q2? Lmao

[sharp zinc]

Below?

I've got a ryzen 7 processor and the minimum requiered is ryzen 5 or Intel i5
The ram requiered is 8gb and i've got 20gb of ram
The operating system requiered is windows 10 and that is what i have so that is the same

Wait, you are talking about the GPU?

Ok so, before i was completely able to run Quest 2 pcvr, something happened and now it happens that i can't

My GPU is the same, VRChat or Quest 2 hasn't got any updates since last time i played VRChat on pcvr

There must be something else

Why did my laptop magically stop running pcvr???

[green oriole]

I remember, still doesn't change the fact that you are below minimum spec.
The GPU is a very important piece of the puzzle.

I have no idea why you would start having issues.
Only ideas I have left right now is to update your drivers.
Try to close down everything else running.
Could try making sure VRChat is the selected/focused window.
Worst case, reinstall windows.

[sharp zinc]

But why did it magically STOP working instead of not working FROM THE BEGINNING!

[sharp zinc]

I tried closing absolutely everything else and still did not work even when i just barely started up my pc so it is as cold as possible

[sharp zinc]

Focused window?

I've never even heard about that thing

[green oriole]

Donno, computers are weird and mine (that is way over recommended spec) has bad days when it just doesn't want to.

[green oriole]

Windows put more resources towards windows that you are currently using, so just click inside the VRChat window or move it around a bit.

[sharp zinc]

My pc had enough spec, even with the GPU being bellow minimum it still worked at first

And worked quite good

And it can launch war thunder 40 fps

Or even GTA5

So why not a game in a map that looks almost like roblox?

[slow hearth]

Because the game that looks like roblox is 1000 times harder on your hardware than other games lol

The problem is that user content has shit optimization and demands a lot from your computer

[sharp zinc]

But before i could play perfectly pcvr (at 30fps and resolution around 1000x1000) and now i can barely launch it or else it burns, did the optimization get even worse than before or what?

[radiant osprey]

Like I said, it sounds like a hardware issue. Something about your PC is causing this, not VRC

[clear quest]

check the required specs for pc vr and check your specs. Check internet connection issues.

[sharp zinc]

I've got everything needed but i am not sure about the GPU

It did work before tho

The GPU is the only thing that i am missing

I've got everything over the minimum requirements BUT THE GPU

But how did it work before if i never had the required GPU?!?!

[radiant osprey]

Oculus likes to update their minimum requirements without notice and magically make your GPU stop working. I've had it happen before where Oculus worked just fine with an older card until an update where it then completely prevented link from working

[green oriole]

It is still working for them, somehow, it just gets intensely laggy in VRChat.

They have a Ryzen 3700u and no dedicated graphics card.

[radiant osprey]

Without a dedicated card it's going to lag immensely

[green oriole]

I've tested my 4700u laptop with my Quest 2, so while I agree it is going to lag awfully, it is a passable experience, assuming you are alone or in a very tiny group of people.

They described it as having like 1 fps or something, but before having 30fps

[radiant osprey]

Is it going through SteamVR?

[green oriole]

I helped them a few days before, you can read above, but I made them try using the Oculus PC version of VRChat.

Didn't help apparently

[radiant osprey]

Yeah that would be the only idea. Otherwise it's a hardware problem. Thermal throttling, windows being weird, whatever. It definitely is the hardware, not the game

[sharp zinc]

And now my Quest 2 want's me to setup again

[radiant osprey]

That's because Meta did a change to accounts recently

[green oriole]

While it doesn't make sense why it would be the problem, I think Virtual Desktop could help, I have absolutely no clue why Airlink is accepting a integrated Vega 7 GPU.

[radiant osprey]

You can force which GPU for Oculus to use in Windows Settings

[green oriole]

They've only got one, integrated.

[radiant osprey]

Then it's the hardware.

[sharp zinc]

Why!?

[radiant osprey]

Because meta likes to mess everything up every update

[green oriole]

No more facebook, now Meta accounts

[sharp zinc]

Ok that's better, but why wasn't it like that FROM THE FUCKING BEGINNING!!!

[radiant osprey]

Because Oculus wasn't owned by facebook before

[green oriole]

The only difference is name, they still only allow a single account per person and etc.

Guess it also means you can't get a bricked headset from your Facebook account being banned anymore, but we'll have too see if this is more trustworthy.

[sharp zinc]

So now it is owned and doesn't need facebook accounts? What sense does that make? It should need a facebook account since it is owned by facebook, not until

[radiant osprey]

I'm not sure if you're out of the loop, but Meta is Facebook's VR division. Meta is taking ownership of Oculus. That's why the accounts are moving to Meta. They were already requiring a Facebook Account prior to this.

[slow hearth]

Oculus existed and had oculus accounts

Facebook bought oculus and merged oculus with facebook accounts

Facebook got compartmentalized into a product instead of being the whole company, & the company owning facebook rebranded to meta

Meta created meta VR accounts and separated Facebook away from VR

Now we're migrating old accounts into the new meta accounts

[sharp zinc]

I am barely able to understand all of that in little time and i am too lazy to read all of that repeatedly until i understand speficically what is going on here, i've got the entire setup done already so i think i might read it later

[sharp zinc]

In short... This:

[slow hearth]

Not particularly difficult to understand, but it doesn't really matter in the end

[sharp zinc]

I am just reading lazily :/

[slow hearth]

take this away from it: new accounts from now on

[sharp zinc]

Or too quick for my brain to process the information detailedly enough

[sharp zinc]

Now i can't open the oculus app anymore

On pc*

I will uninstall it and re-install it

I just hope the min requirements with this update have gone lower so i can play pcvr with my quest 2 again

[hardy horizon]

@next plume i can't really help you myself. You have 3 major issues to get your avatar to work as poor.

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/449386885299830794/1012571197826928690/unknown.png
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/449386885299830794/1012571354148634695/unknown.png

Your poly count to start is way too detailed.

[next plume]

I can see this

[hardy horizon]

This is honestly horrible for a Quest avatar.

[next plume]

so what do i do?

[humble canyon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MkgXcidxg4

[next plume]

??

[hardy horizon]

To be poor you need to shoot for 20,000 or less.

[next plume]

howww thooooo

this is not helpping me

[hardy horizon]

https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/avatar-performance-ranking-system#quest-limits

[hardy horizon]

It depends on the avatar.

[humble canyon]

I posted a video tutorial on how you do it

[hardy horizon]

Some you can use tools like what @humble canyon is trying to share to fix the model.

More complex models will require remodeling the avatar in a modeling package like Blender or Maya.

—
I can't really help further besides suggesting you ask for advice each step of the way.

[next plume]

bruuhhhhhhhhh

i bought the avatar become i cant modeling

you except from to to fricking remodeling it xd

[hardy horizon]

Yea unfortunately whatever you bought is seriously unoptimized for PC.

For Quest this makes my very poor avatar look like a fallback.

[humble canyon]

like even at minimum it needs some material combining and mash combining to be good on PC

[next plume]

but can i have very poor on pc version

and poor on quest version?

[slow hearth]

follow the video and optimize it, yes

the avatar has dogshit performance and there is no low hanging fruit here to make it less worse

[humble canyon]

because too many Unity audio Source components crashes the headset and if you play sound effects over your microphone it's still the same amount of voice chat audio sources that vrchat safely budgeted

wouldn't surprise me if like the maximum amount of people they allow in a quest room with one additional Sound Source on top of their voice was enough to trigger the crash

or they wanted to leave world's any budget to have sound effects

yes

probably for the foreseeable future given the mobile chipsets

here I'm not surprised you were in a room full of all Quest users as their 60% user base

cloud gaming and VR is very difficult because of the latency requirements

and honestly that extra CPU for the quest 2 probably ended up getting spent on physics bones

5G isn't going to help for the travel time from the servers to you

and Cloud streaming is tremendously expensive so vrchat wouldn't have the budget to run that infrastructure

you put your tools on the base mash and use bone scaling to hide them

yes that is a method of hiding objects that is Quest compatible

I think like cats has some automation for that but I'd have to double-check

but as far as the question of how this is going to go on is this isn't going to change anytime soon as vrchat cannot do anything about the fixed Hardware of the quest

PlayStation VR 2 is not a standalone headset and they would never allow vrchat

and I doubt Apple would have much interest either

and literally every other stand-alone headset has the exact same processor as the Quest 2

I mean Apple's headset would never allow vrchat in the first place so every other headset that could possibly run vrchat would be using the same xr2 chip

from what I've heard the meta Cambria is the same xr2 chip with some extra Ram so not meaningfully different

and like the transparency rendering issues are going to persist for pretty much all of the quests because of the tile-based renders the Mobile chipsets use

yeah that's not going to get fixed for a long time

arm being technologically able to render a transparency is not the same thing as it being efficient enough to be allowed

something that also complicates is because it's on moving avatars is you can arrange the avatars in a way that generates stupid amounts of transparency overdraw

from what I've heard it's the same xr2 chip so not really like I've honestly heard it sold more as like a business headset as they're like sticking in extra RAM for multitasking

I'm guessing vrchat did testing and found the cutout was still causing trouble on avatars

the ranking system is identical regardless of quest headset

[slow hearth]

A branching ranking system will get pretty confusing fast as the years go

[humble canyon]

they already did that for the quest 2

[slow hearth]

"That's an excellent on pc, a very poor on quest 3, a very pooorest on quest 2 and a very 💀 on quest 1"
😂

[humble canyon]

but they just updated the Avatar ranking for both headsets

and from what I've heard the Cambria is literally the exact same xr2 chip so it's not going to be capable of rendering more polygons than the Quest 2

[slow hearth]

There are no news of a quest 3 or its price point yet

The cambria is a quest 2 pro, not a 3

Is mostly the same as q2 power wise, but with a bunch of new tech & stuff

[humble canyon]

so not to be mean but basically give up there's no way that the status quo is changing in the next 6 months+ LetMeDwight so if you want to make Quest content learn to be a mobile game developer

[slow hearth]

All of them support it

Its no different than streaming pcvr via airlink

They're still developing the service though

Maybe? The problem with VR cloud gaming is input delay

[humble canyon]

the problem is the latency between the time it takes for it to get to the server and your headset which cannot be fixed in anyway because that involves the speed of light

[slow hearth]

We can push enough bits woth existing connections already

[wispy locust]

but how bad is it really?

is it "playable" ?......

[slow hearth]

Some people find it playable

I find airlink already on the verge of too much delay, i wouldn't settle for cloud gaming unless we start breaking physics here

But i like action and rythm games, something like vrchat probably would be pretty fine

[humble canyon]

https://www.pcgamer.com/heres-how-stadias-input-lag-compares-to-native-pc-gaming/

doing VR would basically be to 4K results

[slow hearth]

Whew, 125 ms delay at best

[wispy locust]

where I started playing VR, ther was 1280×800px. 60 Hz.

on pc

[slow hearth]

And now it isnt

standards change

[humble canyon]

and I was mentioning input latency not framerate

[slow hearth]

Yeah you can run any resolution, frame rate and bitrate you want, its a matter of how much input delay you can handle

The more data the longer it takes to transfer

[humble canyon]

like you're not going to have any fun if your arms feel like molasses

[slow hearth]

uh

[humble canyon]

basically to not puke your head rotation needs to be tracked super-fast and all of that input latency would get in the way of that

[slow hearth]

Ya but we cant withstand, unless you live nearby a server

[humble canyon]

basically the only way to reduce the latency is to build more servers closer to your house and not even the biggest tech company in the world could get that adequately solved as Google stadia bombed hard

[slow hearth]

We gotta figure out latency first or these services will be extremely restricted

[humble canyon]

this is kind of getting into like the fundamental laws of physics problems

[slow hearth]

Well cant really use google as an example, they love killing off services 😆

[slow hearth]

Fiber optics everywhere, lets gooo

We go lightspeed

😆

[humble canyon]

like even if you put all the cables everywhere still going to be a long distance is going to the travel it's like you're in the middle of Idaho or Alaska

that doesn't help with the problem

as going all the way to space and back increases the travel time required

[slow hearth]

Star link is even worse latency wise m8

[humble canyon]

that would be even worse

[slow hearth]

The focus of that is widespread availability and bandwidth, not really a low latency service

[humble canyon]

basically latency is a function of distance traveled because like light is going already as fast as it's possible for it to go so the only way to reduce latency is to shorten the travel distance your trip has to make

so basically for the foreseeable future Cloud streaming is only really practical if you live in a major city

so basically you're stuck with the quest limitations for the foreseeable future

[slow hearth]

Im here for the day someone accidentally manages to work out wormholes to combat VR cloud gaming latency

"yes sir, the rental fee of the portable wormhole will be a couple trillion dollars... Yes that'll give you sub zero latency because the packers travel back in time"

[humble canyon]

it does not have that capability you'll have to cut out the transparency yourself

[slow hearth]

He speaks the language of the gods

i couldn't parse that

[humble canyon]

the developers of cats have not figured out how to make blender do the thing you're asking it to do

which is turn a bunch of transparent pixels into geometry

question is Quest your primary platform or just frustrations porting to it LetMeDwight

okay but how do you automate it so a computer knows where to make the cuts as that would be a prerequisite for a cat's plug-in to do that

okay so are you showing some sort of automated tool or meaning you use the knife tool yourself

that video did not answer my question as such just showing you making a transparent texture

I asked one of the cats developers and such a tool doesn't exist to generate the geometry based off of the texture

that does not change the problem as it's still a complicated computer problem to go turn pixels into triangles

or I guess the phrase another way if this was a solvable problem to make a blender plugin that does that someone would have already made the plugin

okay now we're getting into like image recognition AI territory to even accomplish that

you manually drew the topology in that video

so basically all your video is demonstrating is using the blender knife tool without knowing it

I'm not sure how image editing software pictures is going to demonstrate helpful information as we're like talking about a hypothetical blender plug-in that automates transparency cutting

as if you have to manually outline the shapes that's no different than the status quo

[humble canyon]

the video is not helping at all as you're still manually defining the edges

which is what everybody is already doing using the knife tool in blender

[humble canyon]

that's the actually difficult part and I asked one of the cats developers about the difficulty of doing that

well they haven't figure out an implementation to even try it

so basically not happening anytime soon

[sharp zinc]

hello people

[slow hearth]

bye

[sharp zinc]

i am currently trying to make the avatar that i have created quest compatible, and im most of the way there. ive gotten all of the physbones optimized, but i have 0 clue on how to do the meshes and the materials. if it helps any i am using the nardoragon v2.0 base. any help woule be appreciated. thanks!

[hazy bluff]

CATS plugin for Blender can decimate (reduce polygons) & atlas (reduce materials). it's pretty straightforward

what halted me for longer than i'd care to admit is that you need to click this to popout the plugin tabs

[faint frost]

hello there is there anyone awake atm who can help with a question for making a quest avatar a smaller mb size?

[humble canyon]

use crunch compression on the textures

[faint frost]

may i ask how do you do that

[humble canyon]

there's a checkbox in the texture import settings for crunch compression

[faint frost]

do you think its possible you can send a pic of where i can find it

sorry, im a newbie when it comes to this stuff ;-;

[humble canyon]

just click on the texture and the inspector should pull up the import settings

[faint frost]

oh okay i found it, what quality do you usually set it too?

[humble canyon]

like 50% would be fine

[delicate mango]

just fyi, this will improve your performance stats but will actually perform worse than having a separate mesh

[stone kraken]

uh

hi

i am trying to optimize a avatar

it has 3 togglable items

and 3 materials for these items

[stone kraken]

the model is 1 mb

the items in total are 2mb

[green oriole]

No easy way to optimize toggles, the only way to optimize them in the "eye" of the performance rank would be to make them into shapekeys, but I do not know if there is any automated tool that does it, because it requires quite a bit of blender knowledge to do manually.

However, when it comes to real world performance, this is probably better.
At least if you atlas most of it into one texture and turn on GPU instancing on that material.

[stone kraken]

Wth is a shapekey

[green oriole]

Shapekey = blendshape.

The things that allow your avatar's mouth to form words.

[stone kraken]

Uh my avatar doesn't have a mouth lol

[green oriole]

What is your avatar?

[stone kraken]

lemme send a screenshot

wings dont have bones

No mouth

as i said

[green oriole]

Shapekeys can be added to any skinned mesh (in Blender), does that avatar have a "skinned mesh"?

[stone kraken]

whats that

these are the item meshes

[green oriole]

The same thing that says how many meshes and materials will say how many skinned meshes you have (assuming you have any)

[stone kraken]

lemme open blender

[green oriole]

I can't help you make these things, I have little idea how you are supposed to do it properly.

[stone kraken]

oh do u know how to see if it has a skinned mesh

[green oriole]

Should say here

But I am getting side tracked.

I assume you want to get out of "very poor"?

[stone kraken]

ye

i want my avatar to be shown

poor is good

[green oriole]

The only problem you have is just that you have 1 toggle too many.

[stone kraken]

oh

so just remove one of the toggles

okie

lemme delete the gun

paintball gun

yep back to poor before i added the gun

thx

they should add an easy way to optimize toggles

uh

[green oriole]

Optimizing with shapekeys is a bad idea in real world performance.
It isn't as bad with Quest, because of how many fewer polygons it should have compared to PC.

It is technical, but shapekeys are quite simply expensive.
If you have a lot of polygons, shapekeys can be more expensive than a whole other skinned mesh (and skinned meshes are not good).

[stone kraken]

i just deleted the gun went back to poor

Eh good enogh

[mortal mural]

hi! i only have one physbone part, it is the ponytail. but it says this. what can i do?

i have the resolutions for the textures set to crunch and have removed all clothes

[sharp ocean]

Does the hair have separate bones?

[green oriole]

That hair is probably the worst optimized, singular piece, I've seen.

Might be an "easy" way to fix it in Blender (assuming you already know Blender), but with my current knowledge, fixing that hair feels like a ton of work.

[carmine cedar]

How can I make sure that a vroid character works for quest?

It seems that Vroid characters are too high poly and have too many bones

[carmine cedar]

Anyone know someone who I can pay to convert my vroid model to quest compatible?

[flat fog]

Anyone knows any ways to improve fbt tracking on quest 2

I'm using D-Link, space calibration, ovr

Cosmos base stations

[green oriole]

#full-body-tracking

[lean plinth]

Apple Music Support… I NEED MY METALLICA IN GAME

Oh, and Spotify and pandora support for the Spotify and pandora users

[quiet flower]

Ok I do not know if this is the correct channel, but I'm trying to create an avatar for the quest and everything seems to be working except for the too short error. I've been trying for hours and can't get it to go away.

so please help

[deft mulch]

yo is it possible to use my laptops gpu to boost the vr performance on my dekstop?

like using two gpus for two different programs

[slow hearth]

ideally you should be using the GPU to play the game lol

[green oriole]

Nope.

Even the systems (SLI and crossfire) that did exist required two of the same GPU and even then it sucked and is dead because it required the game to support it.

[vast oasis]

Two words : Gumroad avatars

[deft mulch]

:c

[crude cove]

why is this a thing?

also here why is it still a thing?

The shader is provided by VRChat in the VRChat's SDK's yet for both avatar and world it's a "unsupported shader" Did someone forgot to add a few lines of code?

i cant upload the avatars with it due to it being a "unsupported shader"

[green oriole]

It is a weird one, think it was meant for PC usage, but they didn't want to put it in another folder possibly.
Also, it is just warning you on the world side, you can still use it.

[wild spade]

how do i fix this??

[sharp zinc]

Meow

[brisk briar]

Is there any way to constrain normal bone rotation on quest?

I feel like my avatar will need it for the limbs, and I want it to look really good on both platforms, especially on Quest.

[low mortar]

Constraints aren't currently whitelisted on Quest.

[slow trellis]

There’s a gesture layer on your avatar without masking for the hands

[wild spade]

wow that helps a lot.

[slow trellis]

Go to your gesture animator, Check the layers, the all hands layer needs a vrc_hands mask in the cogwheel settings in it, Same with the left hand needing the vrc_left hand mask and same with the right

[wild spade]

i think that’s what i did ??

[slow trellis]

Show me rq

[slim pelican]

Does anybody know how to fix the mic issue where it’s not blinking?i recently got my link cable to hook up to my pc and everything’s set up and fine I just can’t talk,the mic ain’t blinking and no one can hear me

[upbeat smelt]

Go to your menu and make sure that your mic volume is not turned all the way down, if that doesn’t work delete vrc and download it again

[slim pelican]

alr thanks

[upbeat smelt]

Np

[slim pelican]

am i gonna lose all my avis if i delete

so like the ones with toggles

[upbeat smelt]

Yea

[slim pelican]

alr

[upbeat smelt]

And if that doesn’t work then your mic is broken

[slim pelican]

it works for regular without the link cable tho

odd

cuz im not using a headdset im just talking through the oculus itself

[upbeat smelt]

Ik that happend to me too I just fucked up sum wit the settings I think but I deleted it and reinstalled it and it worked

[slim pelican]

not for me wtff weird

which settings

[upbeat smelt]

I don’t know lol that’s why I said I think

[slim pelican]

damn alr

[upbeat smelt]

Yeah mb

[molten shard]

Anyone else crash all the time?

[slow hearth]

Quest moment

[molten shard]

True

[sharp zinc]

Does anyone’s else’s oculus controller force you to move backwards all the time? Idk i was playing vrchat and this turning into a common issue so far and im getting tired of it

[slow hearth]

drift moment

[rain kestrel]

safety settings help

[molten shard]

Same

[rain kestrel]

stick drift probably

you can fix this in the controller settings in the oculus settings menu

[sharp zinc]

Ty

[final pine]

Was wondering if anyone had experience and/or a solution for this, but the past couple weeks I've been having absurd amounts of lag on my Quest whenever I try to play vrchat. I use PCVR with Air Link (Used to be a link cable but I found that Air Link somehow gave me a bit less lag?) It just looks like general freezing/stuttering but it came out of nowhere, my setup used to run smoothly until recently. I don't think anything's changed, my graphics driver and oculus stuff is up to date, really no reason for it but any advice or things to try would be much appreciated!

[polar wasp]

what to do?

[abstract light]

You can only use shaders under "VRChat/Mobile" on Quest, so you need to change your materials to just use those.

Can't use Poiyomi or any other custom shaders (or shaders provided by Unity)

[wintry jay]

so i have honestly never specifically optimized a world for quest.
my scene's current stats are:
-13 objects
-68k tris
-40 materials

i was able to find information on tris count (~50k for quest worlds), but no specific information about material and object count.
should i keep the objects separated or would it be more optimized to merge everything to one mesh? i do not know at what point it's better to have an object separated or not.

[humble canyon]

basically if they're like right next to each other in might be a good idea to merge since they're always going to render together

but if you object are like in two separate rooms don't merge them together so you can like stop rendering the object when you're not in the room

so like if you have a house merging all of the bedroom together as one object and like the bathroom as another object might be a sensible approach

[stable sage]

Anyone know how to stop vrchat from crashing for no reason

[green oriole]

Stop showing as many avatars.
And wait for the texture memory metric to be added to the performance rank system so we can block based on it, since unless it is one of those bugs with Quest where you crash on joining anything, being able to limit how much RAM is used will be really useful on Quest since you have 6GB in total, while PC's would with recommended VR specs have a total of 24GB (16GB RAM and 8GB VRAM).

Do make use of the automatic avatar hider, it will probably not stop crashing, but it will help with overall performance, and make sure to make it strict by limiting it to only a handful of avatars at once.

[dire agate]

quest

[cobalt hearth]

Hey my name is max im streamer on twitxh so i like make avatar and male roles on vrchat so if you wanna be my friend on vrchat dm me i need friends moreee

[opaque flume]

im getting this error when trying to upload a quest avi

[humble canyon]

have you install the Android module for Unity

[opaque flume]

oh ok do you know where i can download?

[humble canyon]

https://vrclibrary.com/wiki/books/vowgans-tutorials/page/unity-android-support

explains how to install the Android Support

[opaque flume]

thank you 🙂

[opaque flume]

so i uploaded this avi for quest and it keeps saying its unsuported on this platform

[humble canyon]

did you actually switch your build platform to Android

[opaque flume]

yes

[tardy otter]

you gotta make it pc AND quest

not just quest

[opaque flume]

how do i do that

[heavy niche]

How come I cant press the graphics increase button

[uneven brook]

You need to make the blueprint ID the same on quest and pc ❤️

[fallen nova]

Um

Anyone?

[green oriole]

I assume you have just atlased (it is not entirely clear since the materials aren't named how they usually are).

Would guess the UV maps were named differently.

(If you touched the fix model button then you were fooled by its ease of use because it almost always breaks things unless you know exactly when to use it)

[fallen nova]

It’s okay now

[sour shale]

please help

[sour shale]

nvm figured it out, apparently my locomotion layer was like 4o mb for sum reason lol\

[slow hearth]

Wtf how

[hybrid patrol]

Im currently optimizing my character for quest but for some reason when i generate an atlas this happens (image with buggy textures) any help?

[cursive lake]

ugh

[sharp zinc]

Sometimes CAT plugin is not the answer for everything and you have to do some manual fixing. Manually baking an atlas texture is not that hard.

[hybrid patrol]

Alright thank you 🙏. Have you got a tutorial or method of manually baking an atlas?I dont know much about 3d modeling

[sharp zinc]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73REcZVWMhA

[hybrid patrol]

Thank you 🙏

[lean forum]

I’ve been seeing people upload “quest” avatars with 200k+ tris and I’m mind blown. The only optimisation they do is change the shaders. Will this not affect gameplay on quest? mind blown.

[slow hearth]

It will

Makes the game run like shit

[torpid ruin]

Yes,
You would be playing Microsoft PowerPoint: Quest edition

[humble canyon]

yes that would do terrible things to the framerate

[lean forum]

Lol can’t believe people sell “quest” avatars like this

[wind belfry]

I have a model on the "excellent" rating for PCVR and wanted to import it to quest as a fallback. Unfortunately my Model has two Material Slots (Once For Eye Animations and One For Material Swaps), preferably I'd like my model to be an excellent on Quest and still be able to do all the fun texture swapping but there seems to be no way around it.

Any ideas?

[sharp zinc]

Yes just use 2 different FBX, one with 2 materials for PC and the other one with 1 material for your fallback

[wind belfry]

wouldn't that disable that disable the ability for me to be able to interchange materials separately?

I still want the fallback to be able to do what the PC build can, I understand if that isn't a possible task though

(I have a lot of custom features that I would hate for only a portion of people to be able to see if I were to change it just to be used as a fallback)

I suppose that's the dilemma with optimization right?

[humble canyon]

the fallback won't be able to have materials swapping as every material you swap to still counts to your materials slots

[wind belfry]

got it, I'll just keep it as is and make an extra avatar to be used as a fallback. (Something unique that isn't as boring as a default robot), I just don't want them to be the same avatar just with less features. Thanks!

[sharp zinc]

If you manage to have everything in a single texture and the meshes as blend shape its technically possible to swap things on the fallback

[coarse sandal]

I can attest that I have several material swaps and I still only have the 4 material slots I set up mione with.

Not good enough for a fallback, but I remember back when I was thinking I was gonna leave Medium spec by adding in some eye color swaps.

Lo and behold, I still had the 2 material slots I set myself up with

[wind belfry]

I’m glad others share my pain, I have around 28 material swaps. All on the same texture and quest doesn’t mind loading them. I just want my eyes to work separately without interference with the retextures.

But alas, it falls from perfection to medium at a flinch. Wish there was a little leniency for it. My undying respect to models made for quest first as I’ve learned that I take a lot for granted.

[slow hearth]

the leniency is giving you more than one material for a phone game in the first place

then ya take 28

😄

[wind belfry]

Thats just swapping materials though, the image size for said materials is only 300x500 pixels. The eyes are only 200x130.

I’d be more than happy to swap half of what I have (which to be fair when looked at in game isn’t that much) with an extra material slot.

[errant swan]

The default settings for Quest is to display Medium avatars and lower. Unless they manually change their settings, most Quest users will be able to see your avatar at Medium automatically. I understand the pain of it being so close to fallback-compatible though

[glass hare]

I'm trying to optimize an avatar for quest but for some reason a part of the mesh remains pitch black every time I try to use a Quest shader. Does anyone know why this is happening?

[humble canyon]

maybe it has a black Vortex color attached

as Quest shaders show vertex colors

https://github.com/kurotu/VRCQuestTools

this tool has a remove vertex color button

[tawdry prism]

hey I just joined and it said there was a way to have handtracing for Oculus vrchat so can anyone help me

[coarse sandal]

If you haven't gotten there yet, #1035357660947677204 and the other sections of Open Beta can give you more info on how to join the beta, enable it, AND if you're feeling rambunctious, report bugs on the Canny.

[sharp zinc]

Dm

[earnest nacelle]

Hello I'm new to uploading for quest I usually only do PC stuff.

Does anyone have any tips to help me lower the size of avis when I'm making them quest compatible.

I'm mostly just deleting all toggles and using only like 5 materials for the whole avatar
And deleting clothing that I don't want

Any tips would be highly appreciated

[faint kindle]

crunch compress your textures

use Thry's VRAM calculator to see a list of all the textures being used by the avatar + what is compressed/uncompressed

https://github.com/Thryrallo/VRCAvatarTools

deleting toggles wont do anything, just removes the parameter driver from your radial wheel, isnt actually removing anything from your avatar

[potent helm]

Lmao

Howd I do?

[coarse sandal]

Still looks pretty damn fresh.

[potent helm]

Thanks :)

Its my fallback now

[coarse sandal]

Mine is STILL scuffed to oblivion

One day.... One day.

[potent helm]

Surprisingly it works just as well with full body as the full detail version

[coarse sandal]

Pretty sure mine would be a nightmare.

Thankfully, 3pt is all I got to worry about right now.

[potent helm]

It wasnt that hard to get the poly count down, just used decimate in blender then cleaned it up a bit

It worked perfectly

I might just be lucky though

[wild surge]

If you're never going to use it directly and just want a dummy Quest placeholder to stand in for you, going into the Avatar Descriptor and resetting Playable Layers would probably do it. Scorched earth tactic but sometimes that's all I want

Obviously make sure you duplicate first hehe

[pulsar shale]

has the poly count for what is considered "good" been updated? I have it at 19999 and it says "good" I thought that would be "medium" just barely escaping "poor" but its still good?

Nevermind. Apparently when polytool switches the build target it keeps the PC performance.

[sweet spade]

Is it allowed to use ALVR to optimise wireless PCVR connection for Quest 2? I would like some clarification I will not be banned if I use it

[slow hearth]

Alvr has nothing to do with vrchat

Yes, you're allowed to

[sweet spade]

What if it triggers easy anti-cheat?

[slow hearth]

it literally cannot trigger anti cheat because it has nothing to do with vrchat

[real leaf]

Even if it for whatever reason does you won't be banned. EAC just prevents you from launching / playing on any flagged detections, it doesn't ban in VRChat.

[meager geode]

I see that devs recommend 5k for Avatars on quest. Does this include held items that are toggled on/off?

[humble canyon]

yes those always count to your total material and triangle count even if they're turned off

[meager geode]

Ty

[glad ridge]

srsly?

i mean cmone srsly???

so all the Quest shaders are not working proberly

and the one which could kinda work is also not working even tho it is a mobile shader....guys pls fix your shaders. it is already a hassle to make quest compatible avatars

[humble canyon]

the lack of a double-sided shaders for optimization reasons

[glad ridge]

yeah but it is quite a hassle...all the "optimization" is a huge downgrade

[humble canyon]

it's a cell phone processor

[glad ridge]

which is not that weak nowdays anymore ^^

[humble canyon]

VR is quite the demanding workload as it's having to render everything twice at a high resolution at a high FPS

[bitter hare]

Meta guidelines are even stricter. 😉

This is everything on the screen, not just an avatar.

https://developer.oculus.com/documentation/native/android/po-book-performance/

Quest 1 guidelines are of course a bit outdated and not listed any more because Meta has pretty much marked the Quest 1 dead.

As a guideline, we suggest developers target 300,000 to 500,000 triangles on Quest 1 and 750,000 to 1,000,000 on Quest 2. Keep in mind these numbers are per-frame totals, not per character. Everything from the level geometry to characters, particle effects and even UI elements will need to fit within your triangle budget.

Oh yeah, here's a reason for VRChat Quest not having post processing. 😅

[sharp zinc]

i should get around to doing my own q2 benchmark/perf tests specific to vrchat

as long as those are done right then people cant dispute the results of that surley

[green oriole]

Really hard to do benchmarks for VRChat though, unless you are doing extremely basic tests on individual components or things like polygon count, bone count etc.

[sharp zinc]

yeah I am planning to create worlds that have models with very specific polygon counts and materials (that arent just existing and added to model blank, but setup where they have influence on the mesh, e.g. if I want to benchmark 8 materials id make each material have influence over 1/8th the model, all materials having no intersecting and all different influences/assigned verticies) and textures

and consider whether the model is in sight of the viewer and maybe distance if it seems to change the fps ingame

i know the in sight part will

[green oriole]

Doing benchmarks on complex animators would be harder to do, but people need to know how much of a hog they can be.

[sharp zinc]

complex animators?

[green oriole]

FX layers etc

[sharp zinc]

like models with alot of animations for gestures and such?

ohh

I havent considered that but i should do that now

[green oriole]

Originally the distance based avatar hider hid them because they do cause a performance drain, but that broke things for people using write defaults on.

[heady wing]

Tupper literally brought up unoptimised animators in the most recent dev update

it’s kinda funny tbh

[green oriole]

VRChat needs an extension to the do's and don't's page

Examples on poor animators for example.

[sharp zinc]

Yeah I never knew they had impact

can you explain more about what exactly about them is petformance impacting so I can test it

animation length or keyframe density or how many bones the animation is told to move or

[heady wing]

Those, and animator transitions especially

[sharp zinc]

transitions too?!? so complex animation systems are perf suckk?

[green oriole]

They should also actually write down the reason for why it is 70k polygons.
Could be a thing for you to test as well, Unity handles models above 70k differently (probably because it is using a unsigned 16bit integer for keeping track of vertices, I am guessing).

[heady wing]

tbh if they did that they would just change it to 65535 tris

Unity has added 32-bit vertex buffers though, so meshes aren’t split

And by “has added” I mean it’s been there since like, 2017 or 18

[green oriole]

So it has less of an impact?

[heady wing]

More RAM and just rendering impact at this point

Tbh, 70k is excessive anyway

But here’s the page

https://docs.unity3d.com/2023.1/Documentation/ScriptReference/Mesh-indexFormat.html

[sharp zinc]

so keeping it below 70k potentially is alot easier for android arch to process too

hmmm

[heady wing]

Been there since 2017

[sharp zinc]

what is the scientest thing where you make a shitton of claims before the study

that u will test the truth of in the study

[heady wing]

The 70k limit is probably a remnant from when vrchat used Unity 5

[heady wing]

Hypothesis?

[sharp zinc]

yess

[heady wing]

That’s usually one claim tho

[sharp zinc]

i think there is a more specific and academic word

yea

ill figure it out do some googling to format it like a real one

[heady wing]

Pretty sure it is just hypothesis tho

[sharp zinc]

might as well start scheming now and planning scenarios since i cant test it rn

[heady wing]

But most games use like, 20-30k tris for the player, probably more nowadays, but npcs would use less

Meanwhile VRChat has like, 100k for each person on pc

[sharp zinc]

fr

if only it was popular culture to have more optimized anime avatar

then maybe quest could have alpha shader allowed on avatars lol

[green oriole]

Nope, Quest CPU is tile based and doesn't handle transparancy

[sharp zinc]

well you can have transparency shaders on quest world objects so

Im pretty sure ive seen that in game too

[green oriole]

You can but Quest GPU isn't efficient at it

[heady wing]

Pixel overdraw is a really big problem

[sharp zinc]

this will be included in my research mmmm

there has to be someone else who has done this for vrchat, no?

no way im the first

anyone been in vrc community for awhile?

[green oriole]

Not aware of any expansive ones, but a recent one by hfcRed shows how fantastically physbones scale and that constraints aren't very good https://twitter.com/VRCRedd/status/1547958650899009546.

They may have done ones before.

[heady wing]

Probably the vrchat team

[sharp zinc]

thats pretty interesting i might do it too after everything else since its already done

gives me chance to learn constraints i never bothered so far

[green oriole]

Feel like they should release more of their research then.
https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/avatar-optimizing-tips, because this is pretty bare compared to all the things you can do.

[sharp zinc]

yeah I think they should too that could be very good material to use against people who don't optimize

do they not because maybe the data wouldnt call for as strict optimization as they want? hmmm questions

[sharp zinc]

I now am thinking about how many scenarios I am going to make and well, im gonna have to figure out how to automatically do the material thing i was explaining earlier if I dont want to waste a shitton of time

[bitter hare]

This is like the holy bible for me. xD
https://docs.vrchat.com/docs/avatar-performance-ranking-system

[sharp zinc]

They added this?

[bitter hare]

It's been there since like 2019.

[sharp zinc]

Oh I never knew that

I didn’t even have a quest then

[bitter hare]

But I swear, all Quest avatars I see people use when I hop on Quest to test stuff are VeryPoor.

[sharp zinc]

Yeah

[rose minnow]

so wait

does that mean questies are going to have possibly infinitely more avatars they cannot see OR the category is being removed?

if the former, i would rather not.

majority of my avatars are considered “Very Poor” and I would actually be pissed

[slow hearth]

Should've optimized better

😏

[rose minnow]

not my avatars as in the ones i made, but the ones i have. i am not an avatar creator

[bitter hare]

Avatar creator should've optimized better. 😏

Also, worlds that have VeryPoor Quest avatars can be reported.

[rose minnow]

this would just ruin quest’s enjoyment in vrc. it is excessive to completely remove the very poor characters. besides, i haven’t noticed a problem with very poor avatars. i use my optimisation inside the game and it has worked wonders. why this is even considered is a mystery to me.

there are wayyy too many very poor avatars for them to remove them outright

[bitter hare]

Problem is when you go to worlds with more people in them.
The game is designed to handle 40 people in the same instance.
If you put 40 poorly optimized avatars on Quest like that it'll go horribly wrong.
There's a reason you have to manually show VeryPoor avatars on Quest. xD

They can still have a VeryPoor rank I think, but it shouldn't let you basically upload stuff that's already VeryPoor on PC.

[rose minnow]

yeah, and they don’t HAVE to show every single person. there’s also the “Hide all players except the nearest x” option, which is a miracle to lighten the load

i’m not saying remove the “Show Avatar” feature

i’d just rather keep it the way it is

[rose minnow]

i’m confused as to what you’re saying here.

[bitter hare]

Keep Show Avatar, slap some hardcaps on it. 😅

Force no more than 70k tris on Quest, etc.

Of course, they can't change the already uploaded avatars, but they can limit new uploads.

[rose minnow]

i can’t think of a time i’ve crashed from only having 1 avatar shown, but i’d guess that’d be okay..?

[bitter hare]

(servers don't store perf rank)

[sharp zinc]

I would like hardcaps but unfortunately idk if vrchat can afford something like that, they had backlash from EAC but that likely wont be anything in comparison to how many people will dislike this

[bitter hare]

you'd need a really bad avatar to crash. xD
frame rate will hit the floor before you crash.

[rose minnow]

yeah, and i’ve never had framerate issues, oddly. just crashes