avatar-optimization

[jagged kraken]

Honestly yeah, feels kind of scummy to pay like 30-50 to then be faced with like 400k polygons

[onyx harness]

Tri count, Mat count, Package size, Build size, Vram, Platform(s) it's built for, Game(s) it's built for

ideally imo

[jagged kraken]

admitted I dont have everything id like to display on the picture of something i sell but i have the tri count on the first image you see

[onyx harness]

I've been getting a lot of "is X quest compatible". Even from people after they buy it which is the strangest for me

[ivory sluice]

At this point it was a bad decision to not put a hard limit on the avatar performance metrics

[jagged kraken]

Yeah

[onyx harness]

Have avatars be replaced by something like the Avatar Hider if it's more than 2x the limits

[jagged kraken]

This it the display template I use so people know what they are getting like its not hard guys just show us the numbers

[onyx harness]

People can push the limits and mess about without just being malicious. Intentionally or otherwise

[ivory sluice]

Yea that's kinda there, but i want the limits to be forced so people start optimizing

[buoyant holly]

yeah I've seen that kind of template a decent amount of Japanese content

[onyx harness]

I mean like the quest limits on Phys bones being removed on initialisation. Full removal if it's too high

separate 1 avatar into 2 or 3 if you can't reduce poly count

[ivory sluice]

Exactly

[jagged kraken]

like its really not hard to make low poly look good

[stray tangle]

probably one of the best bakes i've ever done

a good normal map does wonders for making a low poly object look good

[jagged kraken]

so before

and after deleting the insides of polygons that would never be seen

omg im so done what the actual, i need a break, man some creators are goofy

[ivory sluice]

This bloke literally sculpted some clothes, didn't retopologize it nor uv map and called it a day

They surely need to put a hard limit on avatar stats

[stray tangle]

give them an inch and they take a mile

[jagged kraken]

I hate this trend with every fiber of my being

[stray tangle]

give them no avatar hard limits and they will put out literal garbage

[jagged kraken]

so far there has only been one part of this avatar that is respectable

ish

[pseudo obsidian]

This, THIS is the nightmare. A bunch of stuff I've messed with usually just had it either perspective unwrapped and used a solid color and it's raw unadulterated tri count to handle silly things like a Normal Map.

Slap a single color on it, nail it with some smoothness and 15 materials (Due to aforementioned crap UV) and you have a huge whopping "Works for me, buy at your discretion. If you want optimized Do it yourself" accessory.

I'm not exactly good at anything, but when I read and found out what UV's were I was like "Yeah, that makes sense" and was surprised to find out that UV's are the one of the first things thrown out.

In no special order, it's usually Tris, UV Maps, and (Thanks again to shit UV) material slots, as they haven't unrwapped anything properly and thus have to define the 17 different pieces of the accessory as 17+ Materials.

Sorry, I'm in the process of sorting through and re-unwrapping everything myself on a model originally for rendering in blender and saw this shortly after. lol

It resonated with me.

[ivory sluice]

the rasterizer is gonna have fun

[hollow root]

The Before was the original issue, first the material slots was 9 > 7 , I deleted the original optimized one and made a new copy of the optimized model, but it made it worse, it just increased the material slots 9 > 9 , not only that, the shaders went pink forever! , I closed the project without saving, but whe I re-opened it, the issue is still there 9 > 9 , the shader is still pink, and later I saw it saying unparsable shader for no reason, I never changed the shader, what's happening to me!

[gloomy cosmos]

If I've got shapekeys on my avatar that are not animated within unity, do those still affect performance if there are other unrelated animated shapekeys? Or does it only affect the model's filesize?

[stray tangle]

if their values is anything other than 0, they are affecting performance

extra vertex calculations that need to be run

[gloomy cosmos]

Good to know - reason being I've got shapekeys for things like L.Eyebrow.Up etc to make expressions, and then a shapekey for a full finished expression. I was wondering if keeping those nil'd out but not deleted would have a large negative impact in the event I wanted to make more expressions

[stray tangle]

keeping them around will increase the filesize

but not performance

unless they are activated

[zealous wigeon]

Just making a simple drone because why not.
But curious about what would be the best way to go about animating it.

My assumption is that I don't want it as 4 separate meshes (with potentially more if I add anything else) and instead have it as a skinned mesh.

But then the question is, should I bind the separate parts to bones or animate them with shapekeys/blendshapes.
I know shapekeys make it so all vertices have to be calculated, but if the same doesn't apply to bones then they would be better yes?

[ivory sluice]

shape keys have a linear blend so it you want to rotate parts better use an armature, you'd still need to put an armature on it if you wanted the mesh to be used as a skinned mesh, making it able to use blendshapes

[zealous wigeon]

Was mostly just curious what would be best practice performance wise.
But yes, bones seem like the best idea practically and I can't get a good answer from searching for it, but bones seem to be better than shapekeys when it comes to performance, or at least in memory size.

[radiant shadow]

Go bones, more flexible for animating anything

[silk mulch]

what the fuck could i possibly do

this is annoying

its not even .01 over💀

[radiant shadow]

0.00x over , doesnt show the last digits , nearly there tho

[silk mulch]

yep
how can i possibly fix it tho

[stray tangle]

do you already have crunch compression enabled on your textures?

[silk mulch]

no

last times i used that it somehow made the project over 5mb bigger

so i just dont touch it

eh ill just delete something

deleted small face bandaid its all good now
now my avi has a tail

[hollow root]

When I clicked open prefab, it opened it, but I have no idea how to go back to the real model, someone tell me, I can't close the prefab and go back to model in scene

[ivory sluice]

There should be an arrow icon on the hierarchy

[hollow root]

Thanks

https://github.com/d4rkc0d3r/d4rkAvatarOptimizer/archive/refs/heads/main.zip Does anyone know how use this ver of the optimizer in unity project and add it to the shader?

[hollow root]

#avatar-optimization message, also why when the shader goes pink, and I change it into another shader, it never changes and still goes pink in scene and game, why?

When I change shader from pink to other shader, the skin shader can change, but every other body shader never chnges, still pink even though I changed everything in shader

[fossil arch]

Can someone help me understand how to appropriately interpret texture memory as a performance impact? At what point should an avatars texture memory considered a no-go in terms of optimization? For example certain quest avatars can have near 100mb texture memory impact. Where's a good baseline?

[zealous wigeon]

Well "texture memory" is different from other metrics because its effects appear in steps, only first causing problems when you run out of VRAM (super quick memory) and then RAM (quick memory).
After RAM runs out it has to start using the page file (slow memory), which is when you start getting second long stutters.

In the patch notes they state a preliminary 40MB to be "good" on PC.

However, for Quest it is an entirely different matter, a normal VR ready PC will most likely have at least 16GB of RAM and a GPU with 6GB of VRAM, totalling 24GB of memory before performance falls down the grand canyon (which it did quite often before I upgraded to 32GB of RAM) and the Quest 2 has 6GB in total.

Even if you account for OS differences and the many background programs you can be running on your PC, Quest does not have a lot of memory.
It wouldn't be surprising if the texture memory perf metrics for Quest is significantly lower, with, I don't know, 40MB being the limit before you reach very poor.

Problem with setting a baseline is that it differs heavily depending on how many people are around you, high memory usage is fine if there are only a few people around, but during meetup situations you will want it to be overall as low as possible as otherwise you will have Quest users dropping like flies.

If we just use the numbers available to us, we could guess that if "good" is 40MB on PC, then it might be 10MB on Quest. (24/6=4, so one fourth)

[fossil arch]

I appreciate the insight, thank you.

[wooden mountain]

Thing with Bytes and stuff is that you only get factors of 2. 2 4 8 16 etc. Therefore when getting into the Megabytes 10MB becomes 10,485,760 bytes but Windows and most other operating systems round it down to 10MB so maybe your model is off by a few bytes and the sdk gets pissy

But that's a theory, I don't really know of that's the case.

if*

[silk mulch]

it may

idk it seems to be good now

[hollow root]

I used the d4rkavataroptimizer-main, and it worked, the materials were fine, the material slots were 16 > 9 ,but when I clicked create optimized copy. the material slots were 9 > 9 and it was still very poor on quest, it was suppose to be 7 > 9 when I click optimize copy, now how can I merge material slots a bit more?

: Do not worry Moodzilla, soon you'll reach me

: Yes, me still here does mean that your avatar is still very poor in quest

: Well, I am there when you switch to android, not my fault, but try harder

Me: I am trying so hard to stay away from you Rank verypoor!, at least on quest

Am I the only one here online?

[hollow root]

#avatar-optimization message

[buoyant holly]

you're going to have to merge everything down to two materials to not be very poor on Quest

[hollow root]

Is Vrchat/Mobile/Toon Lit a the supported shader for quest and d4rkomtimizer?

[hollow root]

You mean like this?

[hollow root]

The error says Avatar uses unsupported shader ACLS-Toon-Alphacutout-Dither, you can only use the shader provided in, and I am not using this shader now, I changed it to Vrchat/Mobile/Toon Lit, so why it still say that?

I will try to find out before anyone replies

[buoyant holly]

yes

[buoyant holly]

I have not use that tool before so I don't know the settings

[buoyant holly]

you have to change every material to Toon Lit

[trail blaze]

how use cats plugin to lower polygon

@broken hinge

nmvm

[trail blaze]

hello anyone help

[onyx harness]

hide the models you're not uploading

[trail blaze]

ok

ty bezzie

[silk mulch]

any tips?

or should i give up idk

[buoyant holly]

use crunch compression on your textures?

[hollow root]

I used the recomended shader Vrchat/Mobile/Toon Lit, and it turned my avatar's shader white, but it thankfully worked

Look at this!

It was 9 -> 9, and when I changed the shader to Vrchat/Mobile/Toon Lit, it changed the material slots to 9 -> 5, this is a clue of fixing it

[hollow root]

#avatar-optimization message

[buoyant holly]

okay looks like it forgot about your textures so you need to retell it to use your textures

[cobalt trellis]

Any ideas on this one https://twitter.com/LorcanTheAvali/status/1568948428457082885

Lorcan (@LorcanTheAvali)

Can anyone explain this one to me, I've optimised the model to have everything showing as excellent, but the overall performance ranking is still only good...

#vrchat

Twitter · Sep 11, 2022, 1:03 PM

[radiant shadow]

in settings enable so it shows all the stats, could be too many bones (75 for excellent)

[cobalt trellis]

Lifesaver, thanks!

[misty kite]

does anyone know how i get rid of the black

her tail is supposed to be all black

the particle options break her btw
she turns like transparent

[zealous wigeon]

Set the shader to cutout (also possible you need to go into the texture image and set its toggle the "Alpha is Transparency" toggle)

If this is Quest then you are screwed, best thing you can do then it open the texture image and repaint those sections to be of similar color, because Quest does not support cutout or transparency.

[misty kite]

yes it’s quest 😭 i just left it for now

i’ll repaint it later

[glass wigeon]

if I want multiple individual disappearing parts on quest what's the best way to do that or do I just have to suffer through a very poor avatar? (ideally I'm aiming for poor)

[onyx harness]

You can try bone scale toggles

[glass wigeon]

might work

[grand palm]

How do I get Avatar twist bones from my body to work with my cloths?

[stray tangle]

you would need to weight paint the clothes the same way. you can transfer the weights for those groups from the body to the clothes to make it easier

[grand palm]

Is using Cat's okay?

[stray tangle]

CATS is a good tool to use for many things, but it doesn't help for this

[grand palm]

Also, just realized I'm asking in the wrong channel oops

Though, This does the paint and bone?

[stray tangle]

yes but it's not perfect

[wide osprey]

can someone help me with my avatar, this is my first time uploading a high quality avatar, and im struggling a lot

it says ive got too many polygons
639'581 to be exact
and too many skin mesh renders
and too many materiel slots >:I
someone hep

[buoyant holly]

yeah that is way too many polygons

[wide osprey]

well no duh, but how do i get rid of them

i wanna upload the Booni avatar

[buoyant holly]

the 3D modeling software blender would probably be your best option

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MkgXcidxg4

[wide osprey]

:I

I'll try it

[buoyant holly]

https://github.com/absolute-quantum/cats-blender-plugin/wiki/Bake

[wide osprey]

but wait, what if the model has multiple outfits and such

this is the one im trying to upload :I

[buoyant holly]

every outfit is going to count against the material and triangle count

so I might suggest picking one outfit and having a version of the Avatar that's just the one outfit to be your optimized version

[wide osprey]

well how do that :I

treat me as if im a new born baby, i don't know what the hell im doing

this is my first time using unity and blender and stuff so i don't what half the things are

[buoyant holly]

it's kind of late at night for me I won't be able to get through the entire process

[wide osprey]

If theres a way that like we could call for a short bit and you could guide me through a little bit?

becasue i am so lost

and no ones awake to help me

ive asked everywhere

everyone

like god damn I'm getting desperate lmaooo

[buoyant holly]

honestly probably trying this later when it's not 4 in the morning for Americans

[wide osprey]

fair

it's only 2 for me

am*

[buoyant holly]

that would still have most folks asleep

[wide osprey]

mhm

I'll just try again tomorrow

[sleek quarry]

Do VRChat support 8K Textures?

[buoyant holly]

what the heck do you need a A 8K texture for

[sleek quarry]

Had a friend asking me the limit & i heard it was 4K 🤔

[buoyant holly]

well your friend would be texturing wrong if they need more than a 4K

[sleek quarry]

So is that the limit?

[calm spade]

It's the limit of what's reasonable

[sleek quarry]

Just to proof a point & end a understanding. I always put mine at the limit the texture unless it's over 4K

[buoyant holly]

like honestly a lot of folks could probably save texture space if they weren't trying to stuff like repeating tiling detail on the main texture instead of a detailed map

https://twitter.com/VIANVOLAEUS/status/1517951160740687873?s=20&t=JuKh_iJtDl789TDhlGzv1A

VIANVOLAEUS (@VIANVOLAEUS)

Back to shader: Can use seamless tiled normal maps per RGB area - tiny (128/256px) normal maps, but tiled around 50-100 times in the shader, giving you a higher effective TD.

You can combine these with an base nrm map for creases and baked normal details etc: (Blend with Base)

▶ Play video

Twitter · Apr 23, 2022, 7:38 PM

[tulip rose]

what do you guys think is a good poly count to shoot for on a semi-complex gun prop.

[solid smelt]

Very reliant on size of the gun

[tulip rose]

gonna be a revolver

[solid smelt]

3-5k would be highest for realism imo

Textures make more of an impact than raw verts

[tulip rose]

Yeah fair enough, looks about right for how it's going so far.
most of the detail will be baked down from a high poly vertion anyway.

[solid smelt]

Yeah exactly, baked normals/height maps can solve whatever high poly would have

[tulip rose]

Yee just a target is a good idea to make sure im not overdoing the game version lol

[undone cradle]

Was trying to find out why Good, Medium and Poor have the same triangle count limit and bumped into this.
https://answers.unity.com/questions/1672533/is-the-limit-of-mesh-vertices65535-still-valid.html

Going past 64k vertices (not tris) causes meshes to be put in a 32-bit index buffer because it won't fit inside a 16-bit one.

I assume this is the main reason Poor rank is still 70k tris?

Was talking to someone about new perf ranking limits, Poor having less materials and higher poly count, but yeah, the poly count increase seems unlikely with this.

No idea how much of a performance hit this 32-bit index buffer causes.

For all I know VRChat's 70k tri limit might have been made with Unity's old behaviour in mind, where it splits into multiple meshes (with 16-bit index buffers), causing more draw calls.

[lone tiger]

I think it would be good if VRCSDK would give you a warning if it detects a mesh with >65536 tris, which would suggest you to split it.

[zealous wigeon]

And detect if a skinned mesh with blendshapes is above 32k polygons.

Only problem with warnings/tips like this is that they come too late, right before uploading.

[undone cradle]

vertices, but yea

[crisp oxide]

how do i get to new user

[heady smelt]

Interact with other (probably) human entities

If you ask me, talking with others within close proximity is your best strategy

VRChat doesn't disclose its leveling system intentionally so its up to us for speculation

[crisp oxide]

someone said you need to add 83 people as friends

[thin phoenix]

i just stayed afk in crowded rooms for 10hours and got it, no friends no talk just afking with people around while at work

[onyx harness]

I'm sure this person was just trying to sound smart.

[buoyant holly]

there is no precise numbers for the ranking system

[thin phoenix]

ive seen a video that said 10hours and it was exactly 10hours after i received the email yesterday^^

[sick timber]

I got mine at about 15 hours
Most people say they get it after 20

There’s no set number

[thin phoenix]

^^

it was 14.5 hours on my steam timer but i migrated the acount at about 3.5 because without i wasnt able to increase trusted rank xD

so it was around 10hours in rooms with people

[thin phoenix]

question about avatar editing, someone is making for my wife and myself own avatars from scratch, is it hard to edit them later with effects? we used to do colorchanges with glothings / juwelery in other games with macros, is it easy to implement effects like this?
example: glowy earrings change to different colors every few seconds, like RGB lights

[radiant shadow]

'easy' if you done it before - not too hard to learn either , unity can just use shader for that to change it whatever color / cycle / random - you can use a mask to select certain parts of the avatar for it (not a easy thing for quest)

[crisp oxide]

is there anyone who can upload character for free

[grizzled shard]

You can upload a character for free once you reach New User rank.

[misty kite]

i have this error however
all the textures are at the lowest possible quality, ive deleted several toggles, ive deleted materials, and it WONT BUDGE

[calm spade]

Lowest possible quality ?

[misty kite]

all her textures are on this

[buoyant holly]

https://github.com/oneVR/VRWorldToolkit this tool for world's could be used for telling you what's taking up file size

[misty kite]

it works for avatars too?

[sick timber]

Yes

[misty kite]

do i just drag the folder in the project

theres no unity package

[untold acorn]

Can I optimize a clothing's bone by merging it to the main body and also transfer the weight to only one armature?

[sick timber]

There is under releases

[boreal tiger]

how do i find the vrchat mobile shaders?

[regal ridge]

you won’t see em unless you have unity configured for quest content

at least, I think so?

[buoyant holly]

vrchat mobile Shader shows up even on PC mode

so you should be able to go to the Shader list and see a drop-down labeled vrchat

[oak plover]

im literally gonna break this

ive been sat here for the past 3 hours tryna find the material in an avi that uses a non vrchat shader AND IVE SEARCHED ALL THE MATERIALS AND I HAVENT FOUND IT PLS HELP

[buoyant holly]

https://github.com/kurotu/VRCQuestTools this tool has a button that duplicates the Avatar and swaps every material to a vrchat Shader so it might have better luck in finding it

[oak plover]

i used that for the first part then gave up

[oak plover]

you are a life saver

[buoyant holly]

glad to be of help

[swift coral]

Looking into the texture memory of my avatar right now for the beta. Is there a good way of decreasing the texture size? Apparently crunch compression in Unity doesn't help decrease the size. How should I go about optimizing my textures?

My files are .psd formatted, but converted to .png, so would it be best to just go into gimp, squash all layers together and make it a .jpeg? 🙃

[ivory sluice]

crunch compression is more "make your texture's gradients look ultra-artifacted in exchange of making your download faster", afaik unity converts all textures into its own texture format just as blender converting imported models into bmesh, its own mesh format, so the image format won't be a matter
you can try different compression formats by looking into the pc/mac/linux compression settings

you can also try using vertex colors for individual by-mesh colors, reducing resolution, or combining 0 to 1 data in the rgba texture channels like with unity's standard metallic/ambient occlussion/detail/smoothness texture method, you might have to manipulate whatever shader you are using to adapt it your way

also import settings like disabling alpha import or mip maps (only do this if you texture is very low detail and it's not going to use a small amount of pixels from the screen) can help

[modest blade]

Im new to optimization, If I want to combine materials and textures, does that mean I have to setup all textures and materials in Blender, then combine them using CAT?

[ivory sluice]

yes, you cannot edit meshes or textures via unity unless you want to remake a 3d editing app inside unity (so basically no)

you'll have to combine materials on blender or any other 3d editing software, either manually or using cats, wich does it automatically but less effective

[eternal garnet]

Ugh, i'm struggling so hard to think of ways to further optimize my avatar.

I managed to squeeze my avatar down to ~63mb texture memory usage. That is with full body textures and 2 extra outfits. Good rating and exceptional texture quality still. But hearing that VRChat seems to be planning to include texture memory usage into avatar rating and 30-40mb being the target for what sounds like the "Good" rating (rather than excellent) makes me sweat quite hard. This would destroy my Good rating on both my fallback and my actual avatar (which is exactly the same, my fallback is essentially my normal avatar at this point).

I've already hackishly edited the mochi shader to read the alpha channel in a texture for emissions (making the entire texture essentially invisible except the parts i want to glow, then setting the render method to opaque so it ignores the alpha channel for the diffuse but reads it for emissions) which cost me the correct display in mirrors (i appear alpha transparent in mirrors with the environment mask toggled off, prison escape and among us profile cameras for instance), this saved me quite a lot of memory across my body and my outfit. I've also reduced texture sizes wherever i can to the point that if i reduce them any further, quality is going to take a massive noticeable hit.

Now my only idea to solve this would be atlasing 4 materials (which would raise my texture memory usage because i don't have 4 matching texture sizes to combine, only 3, 1 would need to be raised up to 1k) and then use the 3 extra material slots i saved to completely redo the body UV and split it into 4 materials that i can hopefully (depending on the parts included) reduce in size. The initial size would be from 1 4k texture to 4 2k textures, if i could reduce ANY of the 4 slices to 1k i would save 12mb in theory but even completely reorganising the main body texture isn't going to cut it seeing that the texture memory display is... not entirely accurate.

My body uses a 4k texture (anything below gets super blurry) should be 64mb raw texture memory usage (not counting mipmaps which i also use to reduce the impact at the cost of a slightly bigger avatar) but i use at least 2 4k textures (that should be 128mb alone), this leads me to believe the texture memory display counts the actual current usage (including mipmaps), even taking the lower baseline texture memory usage i can't hit 40mb, it also means reducing one 4k to 3 2k and 1 1k wouldn't save me 12mb either. Major oof.

I only really see 3 options now:

1. Reduce the 4k main body texture to 2k taking the massive hit in quality, this would also allow me to reduce the normal to 2k (taking another massive hit in quality) but would probably easily bring me down to less than 40mb. This is really the last option i want to take. There are mipmaps and they are for a reason, for anyone who puts their nose right into my face should be able to see clean high quality 4k textures. I'm not willing to take this option at all.

2. Split off my avatar into 2 (or even 3 versions). One for each outfit, saving the texture memory from the other outfit. This would have the upside of reducing the avatar size a good chunk, texture memory usage a good chunk, improve performance very slightly (as i'm going to save the empty draw call for the second outfit mesh) and would most likely make me able to hit my 40mb goal... at the cost of extreme inconvenience. Every time i fix or change something i would have to upload these changes multiple times including the fallback. Every time i want the different outfit, i'd have to change my avatar, going through my spawn in again, at that point it would become an annoyance for me. It would also mean ANOTHER download for others. This quickly turns into chaos and all the optimization i've done so far would be completely pointless. I'd be willing to take this as a last resort option if all else fails.

[heady smelt]

bruh how busy is your avatar to be 63MB when optimized

[eternal garnet]

3. Last option would be saying fuck it i'll take the medium rating for my main avatar and simply only reduce the texture quality slightly on my fallback, keeping the good rating in tact for it. This seems the best option but... its meh.

considering that i'm really at the limits here, very

[heady smelt]

Maybe there is a way to get a shader to do the pinkish gradients on your limbs so u dont need an ungodly high res img

im assuming you have an img for that gradient

[eternal garnet]

thats the diffuse

as i already explained

my diffuse and emission are the same texture

i already edited the shader to read the alpha channel for emissions

which was already an ungodly hack

and i paid with being invisible in mirrors with environment mask off

which is something VRChat team is aware off they said that there is some weird behavior with their new way the environment alpha handling works

[heady smelt]

idk@if u can go much further without more shader hacks tbh

[eternal garnet]

this is the diffuse

the problem is i can't think of any more shader hacks that would save me anything

i already removed all textures (spectacular, roughness, AO etc) or at least reduced them to like 256x256

and the jump from 4k down to 2k destroys an abnormal amount of details (not to mention i'd have to do it to the normal as well to match them back up)

[onyx harness]

How drastic is the difference dropping the compression 1 step?

[eternal garnet]

the compression? doesn't have an impact on the texture memory usage

textures get uncompressed in your GPU

[onyx harness]

ahh, yes sorry, mind blank

[forest fable]

try using 2k res BC7 compression, I find that for certain cases its acceptable vs a 4k dxt1/5

also regarding using alpha channel for emissions

using an alpha channel essentially doubles the vram of a texture

you might be better off using a separate emission texture that is lower resolution, if the quality loss is acceptable

[eternal garnet]

i looked up the different compressions for unity and if unity would save memory somehow (they actually do but BC7 is already essentially the very best), all the other mentioned ones are not available to select

[eternal garnet]

That's not true.

a 1k texture without alpha is 4mb, the alpha channel is another 1mb

so 5mb for a 1k RGBA

this would be 80mb for a 4k RGBA

compared to 64mb RGB

if i were to reduce the emission to 2k (16mb) i would save nothing

and 2k emission would already make the emissions incredibly blurry

any lower and it looks really bad

thats why i opted to use the alpha channel instead at a cost of 16mb for what is essentially a second 4K info field

[forest fable]

hm? a 2k rgb dxt texture is 2.67MB vram for me, with alpha channel it becomes 5.33MB

[eternal garnet]

also keep in mind i use mipmaps, which drastically reduce the impact of these 4k textures unless you stick your face into mine

thats because of mipmapping and the way compresson works with alphas + mipmapping

i remember reading something about that, i think it was very specific to DXT compression

if you are using alpha you are better off using BC7

according to unity devs

[onyx harness]

The texture feels like it's got a lot of open space, I imagine as it's using the same uvmap as the main texture. Are you using a shader that would allow you to select which uvmap to target?

[forest fable]

I mean, it was just an example and bc7 is still going to cost the same amount of vram as dxt5 as you know

[eternal garnet]

this is the texture without alpha applied to the body

there are some spaces yes, i reorganized them quickly in GIMP to see if actually reorganizing could save me something

and indeed with some shuffling i can make a lot of space, problem being the tail

the tail UV is so big and wasteful and rescaling it might make the texture look weird or unfitting (something that could be fixed)

but even then... at most i'd probably be saving a single 2k texture

here's the quick reshuffling that i was experimenting with

almost the entire body is already reshuffled and theres still plenty space

each tile is 1024x1024

i could also be super efficient and "mirror" the UV so left and right arm use the same space, this would save ungodly amounts of UV space at the cost of the arms having individual textures

[onyx harness]

The texture up here isn't the same one though, is it?
I was just thinking if the shader allowed you to target different uvmaps, having a second map that has those islands more compressed could allow you to set it to 2k with minimal detail loss. At least on Pc upload it'd work.

[eternal garnet]

well

the Mochi's Uber shader does have an option for UV sets but i think thats only for detail maps

[onyx harness]

And not base, I see

[eternal garnet]

and i absolutely cannot switch away from Mochi's. I use Mochi specifically because it looks best and doesn't horribly break like Poiyomi does in badly lit worlds (or lightless worlds such as Among Us etc)

I also found Mochi's to be a tad faster (with much more stuff and better look) than Poiyomi in its most basic form

[onyx harness]

Unless someone can drop in and enlighten us with some new info, assuming good is aimed to be set at 40mb, it's looking like literally dropping into the blurry textures is the end of the discussion.
Very not ideal but...

[eternal garnet]

yea..

In that case i'd only do that for the fallback tho. I'm not willing to drop my main into blurriness

especially not when we have mipmaps which can negate most of the impact of big textures

[onyx harness]

I think I'm in the same boat. Looking at Thry's tool and subtracting meshes I'm at about 60-61

[eternal garnet]

The avatar rating system needs to be... a wee bit less static and more... dynamic... a point system. For instance if avatar size was part of the rating (which it isn't but lets assume it is) you would get a point or two "free" if you used mipmaps on your textures (which increases your avatar size but optimizes it overall)

[onyx harness]

though idk why my meshes are 25. I gotta do some reduction on that alone

[eternal garnet]

i'll have to get thry again and check if my meshes have any impact i can reduce

there are a couple blendshapes i could bake

seeing that i use multiple 4k textures i doubt that any substantial amount of those 63mb of mine are the mesh however

[onyx harness]

My Medium models are more optimised than my Good models, fbx wise. As they can disable meshes and thus reduce draw calls the Medium can run better than the Good counterpart xD

[eternal garnet]

yea

thats another problem with the current rating system

it forces me to combine both my outfits into one rigged mesh

[onyx harness]

bone count is limited so you're left with blendshapes for toggling clothing and we all know how great that is for performance

[eternal garnet]

sure saves one object draw call maybe but there is still 2 rigged meshes, 2 materials and now that they are one object i can't turn them off, i have to make them invisible which still incurs the second draw call (despite skipping the entire shader render)

yea well i opted not to use the blendshapes for that

[onyx harness]

Mat swaps are probably better then blends imo

[eternal garnet]

i'd rather skip the shader by setting it to invisible

this will simply skip the entire shader

[onyx harness]

My thoughts were people with shaders off. Blends still toggles it, mat swaps/properties doesn't

[eternal garnet]

but sadly still incurs a draw call

[onyx harness]

though I say that I did move over to UDIM

[eternal garnet]

again, rating needs to factor these in, right now some optimizations (like mipmaps, more separate objects etc) will simply be calculated as "bad" when they are actually better

[onyx harness]

multi bone weight meshes and blends are just a hassle

5 year old system build for a deprecated sdk. But completely revamping/rebuilding the system would be long and hard. Points systems would feel like trying to manage gun balancing in a cod game

and that job sounds horrific xD

[eternal garnet]

i'd do it.

[onyx harness]

People like me would always be giving you work I can promise you that

[eternal garnet]

the system as is is good, its just that its too static at times and encourages the wrong kind of optimization in order to squeeze that one better rating

trust me

i already get work every day with users bugging me about the most common things...

when they could have read the... FAQ

which is kinda mandatory to gain access to the server...

[onyx harness]

yeah but you know people don't read

scroll scroll scroll, Agree

[eternal garnet]

some people dont even manage to do that...

i've had plenty people DM me

"how do i gain access to the server?"

uh read the one and only channel you have access to?

[onyx harness]

"The model looks wrong, the package is broken"
Is using the wrong dependencies

Just like all the creators claiming the current sdk is broken because their hand gestures don't work anymore.
Hint hint, it's not the sdk that's the issue

[eternal garnet]

speaking off the devil... got a DM asking me to invite someone to the server... ugh... the server is public... the link is there... just... copy it....

[onyx harness]

that's a whole different level

[eternal garnet]

you... have... no.. idea...

[onyx harness]

on the topic of Optimisation, now that I've badmouthed 95% of egirl/eboy creators

[eternal garnet]

hahaha

[onyx harness]

Constraints, they need to be in the list too

I love them, I use them a lot and they get brutal when a lot are in play

[eternal garnet]

can we first at least add 1-2 constrains to quest so i can shove my knife to my quest version and have it run better than having literally 5 goddamn copies of the knife

[onyx harness]

I have a Good rated avatar that drops everyone to single digit fps

literally just constraints

[eternal garnet]

how many constraints are you using

and what the hell are you doing with these

[onyx harness]

oh nothing, they just exist. It's there to prove a point

[eternal garnet]

theres systems

[ruby isle]

Same lol

[onyx harness]

I think there's a few thousand parent constraints all with 1 source

[eternal garnet]

to constraint an entire copy of your avatar with every single bone, thats like 100+ bones for some avatars, just to make a copy or do some ragdoll/posing shenanigans and they work fine

you must be having in the 500+ constraints

holy...

[onyx harness]

yeah ~75 constraints to copy the model. One of my commercial models has a system I made

all Rot constraints except 1, the hips

[eternal garnet]

i've already had this constraint talk with someone here, they were convinced constraints are evil... yea if you use thousands.... just a couple (like 1-5) aren't that bad and certainly better than having 1-5 copies of the same object

although i only have 1 constraint with 5 sources

just to move a knife around between both hands, turn it upside down and to my hips

[onyx harness]

I was testing using bone scaling to completely replace blendshape toggles. Ended up with 121 scale constraints trying to do something unnecessary but fancy. Dup'ed the model 80 times to test perf and dropped unity to 2 fps

[eternal garnet]

i could optimize that to animate the source and have it 3 sources instead but... meh

[onyx harness]

so I replicated that for the Good model. Just about 10k constaints

[eternal garnet]

oof

starts sweating

[onyx harness]

and I can toggle it remote only too :3

ty sdk3

[eternal garnet]

ah yea

me:

https://gfycat.com/impassionedimperfectblackfootedferret

[onyx harness]

Now I have a model that's Vp on every category but runs as Excellent and a model that's Good/Excellent on each category that runs at 2fps

the performance rating is a baseline not gospel

[eternal garnet]

yea some of the limits are weird, its due to the weird combination of things, as example the "material slots"

you can have 1000 material slots, each being a single object, toggable making them have essentially 0 impact

[ruby isle]

Everything in the performance rank has a reason for their limits. They all have a cost, some heavier than others

[onyx harness]

Particle systems with disabled/none renderers still counting as 1 mat slot is great

but you could animate it back on so I understand it

[eternal garnet]

But they don't react to each other and they dont respect each other, they don't include special exceptions either as mentioned

and thats why i'd make it a two fold system

a current ranking and a total ranking

current is what the avatar currently is and a total rank that is essentially what it is now

[ruby isle]

There isn't a good way to count special exceptions. They do react to each other too

[onyx harness]

Knowing what is and isn't toggled and checking it constantly would be a performance drain I reckon

I feel like I've heard devs mention wanting a system like that but it just tanking in crowded worlds

[eternal garnet]

They don't. For instance: Skinned Mesh Renderers. Only 2 are allowed, this is complete nonsense. Yes Skinned Mesh Renderers are bad but what this forces me to do is have my 2 outfits in one Skinned Mesh Renderer, making me unable to toggle the other, this means the other outfit is ALWAYS still causing a draw call (at minimu, a full render if i dont skip the shader)

What we need instead is a combined Object/Skinned/Mesh count

combined so people don't use 8 Skinned and 8 Meshes on top of that

[ruby isle]

Skinned Mesh Renderers can get very expensive, especially depending on weighting settings, and ESPECIALLY blendshapes.

[eternal garnet]

but they only get to choose between 8 Skinned or 8 Meshes or any combination of these

[eternal garnet]

Which aren't counted, highlighting the issue.

[ruby isle]

The real optimization you should be doing is not having togglable outfits. Make different avatars for different outfits

[eternal garnet]

Which brings me to another thing, can we get a blendshape count?

[ruby isle]

They're not counted but they're reflected in the rank

[zealous wigeon]

If they are going to be able to realistically count toggles then they would probably have to create their own toggle system, then it could pre-calculate every variation and you could could set limits on which toggles can be on at the same time.

[eternal garnet]

They really aren't reflected at all.

[ruby isle]

The fact that only 2 skinned mesh renderers counts as Good perf is reflecting their cost

[zealous wigeon]

And why excellent stops at 32k polygons

[eternal garnet]

It really isn't. My outfits have 0 blendshapes, if it wasn't for their weighting, they might as well be normal meshes, in fact my armor previously was (at the cost of more material slots)

The system just baseline assumes every skinned mesh is the same bad

which isnt the case

a skinned mesh could be a weapon with 2 bones for animations

with 1k polys, no blendshapes

[ruby isle]

Because the system is a baseline, not an exact measurement. Blendshapes or not, skinned meshes aren't good to have many of

[buoyant holly]

honestly lots of outfit avatars are probably going to be hit with an a rank decrease soon because vram is soon going to be a stat

[eternal garnet]

And thats why its encouraging the wrong kind of optimization

its not exact enough

[onyx harness]

Bro I can put 900 blends an 1 skinned mesh and run my model at 3gb vram. No one can see it but it's there.
Or I can run 0 blends and the mesh is a couple mb Max. The variance is so great but it's always 1 skinned mesh

[ruby isle]

Actually it should be encouraging more optimization. In your situation, you should not be adding togglable outfits. Make a separate avatar for them.

[eternal garnet]

Already having to combine two outfits into one skinned mesh renderer just to satisfy this stupid 2 skinned limit is dumb, it impacts the end user having to render me more than having it two separate objects

[ruby isle]

Separate avatars

[eternal garnet]

At the cost of inconvenience for me and everyone else?

[onyx harness]

yes

[ruby isle]

Everyone else?

[eternal garnet]

They have to redownload essentially my entire avatar again

[onyx harness]

as you get closer to you lose functionality

[eternal garnet]

they have to recalculate my perf rank

[ruby isle]

Especially now that calibration saves, there's almost 0 inconvenience to yourself

[eternal garnet]

eh? switching avatars is an inconvenience

[zealous wigeon]

How often are you swapping avatars?
Also with the wings on the menu it is super quick to swap nowadays.

[eternal garnet]

especially because i have a spawn in effect?

[onyx harness]

it's like 3 button clicks

less if it's on the wings

[buoyant holly]

hogging my vram with your outfits you're not going to wear in the session is inconvenient to me

[ruby isle]

You know that Unity caches all the previous assets. If both avatars use the same assets then nothing needs to be redownloaded

[eternal garnet]

Pretty sure thats not how Unity caches things

[buoyant holly]

it's going to have to re-download everything because it just downloads Unity blobs not the individual assets

[eternal garnet]

There is no VRAM difference between separate avatars or the entire thing

I have mipmaps on which means you will see a massive reduce in VRAM usage if i don't wear them

you will always see a massive reduce in VRAM usage anyway

thanks to the extreme mipmapping

63mb for the ENTIRE avatar with 2 outfits

is pretty low

seeing as most people run around with 100-200mb easily

[ruby isle]

And VRAM won't change if you have to switch avatars, so what's the point?

[eternal garnet]

That the "wasting my VRAM" is a mood point

[onyx harness]

I can see it already, creators disabling mipmaps on all textures to get under the texture memory limit and staying or

[eternal garnet]

what remains is that i'd have to go through my spawn in every single time i switch my outfit

which would make my spawn annoying to myself

[ruby isle]

Then don't have a spawn?

[buoyant holly]

most people aren't as optimized as you

[eternal garnet]

Right, next thing you suggest is not having an avatar

[ruby isle]

Yeah totally

[onyx harness]

honestly fam I'd 3x or 4x that

[eternal garnet]

I haven't put hundreds of hours into optimising this just to remove it

[ruby isle]

Why not benchmark your avatar and see exactly how much optimizing you did

[eternal garnet]

i love my spawn effect, people like it, its not cringe and annoying as the shit you see around

i did several times already.

[ruby isle]

Any spawn effect is kinda cringe to me. =P

[eternal garnet]

i always get around 126 fps in my home

anything below that would mean i did a goof

[ruby isle]

Not true

[onyx harness]

[eternal garnet]

What? It's a simple test. Stand in the same place look in the same direction. Switch between avatars.

[sick relic]

Pretty low?
I have my avatars with 3 outfits and just only 16MB

[eternal garnet]

And you probably have a lot less detail on those

Do you use flat colors? Gradients? Anything that can be reduced in size without like breaking details?

[ruby isle]

SteamVR doesn't give you exact FPS readouts. It has reprojection and other frame tricks

Benchmark your CPU and GPU ms impacts

[eternal garnet]

I don't use SteamVR

[forest fable]

I think you might have a misunderstanding? mipmaps increase vram cost, not decrease them. 33% to be exact. enabling mipmaps increases your texture vram costs by 33%

[buoyant holly]

detailed maps could be quite helpful for reducing vram usage also like mirroring your uvs

[sick relic]

It isn't like everyone is going to put their eye on 1 cm away from my model all the time to see the detail?

[eternal garnet]

The wicker is quite big and i have people cuddling and staying close to me a lot of times

[buoyant holly]

https://twitter.com/VIANVOLAEUS/status/1517951160740687873?s=20&t=JuKh_iJtDl789TDhlGzv1A

VIANVOLAEUS (@VIANVOLAEUS)

Back to shader: Can use seamless tiled normal maps per RGB area - tiny (128/256px) normal maps, but tiled around 50-100 times in the shader, giving you a higher effective TD.

You can combine these with an base nrm map for creases and baked normal details etc: (Blend with Base)

▶ Play video

Twitter · Apr 23, 2022, 7:38 PM

[eternal garnet]

I wish i could use that! Sadly my textures are unique

If i could just separate my fur details out and repeat it a couple times that would be great but that would mean completely redoing the UV mapping of the wicker to even support this

[buoyant holly]

https://twitter.com/moopdrea/status/1569721177077071872?s=20&t=_XE8jdwv4J8mmF9yXVYhuA

🪴 Moop (@moopdrea)

holy on new tech discovered of just slapping a simple "sand" normal map on models to do a really subtle fur/softness texture

Likes

338

Twitter · Sep 13, 2022, 4:14 PM

[eternal garnet]

not to mention redoing all other textures for it

yea not a fan of that

[buoyant holly]

still could be helpful for your outfits

[eternal garnet]

a simple "sand" texture isn't going to cut it

the outfits maybe yes

one maybe that is

[buoyant holly]

Fair mostly just brought it up as a lot of furs avatars could probably use that to make the stick your nose close to the Avatar during cuddling

[eternal garnet]

only one of my outfits uses a "woven fabric" kind of texture, but that one i already reduced and said fuck it, it still looks okay

[forest fable]

actually nevermind streaming mip maps negates this, assuming its implemented properly in vrchat. The vram stats do report the 33% increase though.

[eternal garnet]

the problem is, i have handcrafted fur that i specifically made for this avatar, to match the fur direction with the base body texture and body parts

[buoyant holly]

thanks for the screenshot clarification

[eternal garnet]

i also already shoved the fur details into the diffuse

to save on a texture

[eternal garnet]

Exactly. They do work. There is a world that shows that it actually works.

Assuming that this means it works for avatars too (or all content for that matter) which would explain the weird low texture memory cost

i literally couldn't be 63mb as just my single 4k diffuse alone would put me to 64mb (80mb with alpha)

which would mean mipmapping is indeed working

which is good!

of course at the cost of a bit more avatar size

[plain yoke]

I have a question.

Does anyone know how to reduce the use of polygons on an avatar?

[buoyant holly]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MkgXcidxg4

[eternal garnet]

There is a plugin for Unity and there is also CATS plugin for Blender which can do that for you

[buoyant holly]

https://github.com/absolute-quantum/cats-blender-plugin/wiki/Bake

[eternal garnet]

see above video, it should explain it

[plain yoke]

Dude!

Thank you!

Holy crap I really appreciate that

[buoyant holly]

one thing I like about the video above is it explains how to dissolve Edge Loops which is one of the better ways visually as far as reducing triangle count

[plain yoke]

I’ll keep that of note…

[eternal garnet]

Yea, thats what i did with my Wicker too... a lot of polys in mane and claws..

[plain yoke]

Oh my god

I love the Wickerbeast

I am thinkin of buying it. Not too sure though.

[eternal garnet]

How else would i shove both outfits and the wicker into 70k polys when the wicker starts out at around 70k

[plain yoke]

Lmao honestly 😂

I heard a lot of talk about that

That’s why I contemplated even buying the package

[plain yoke]

That Is amazing

[buoyant holly]

very nice

[plain yoke]

I totally got you and @eternal garnet mixed up. My bad. Both of you: thank you

[eternal garnet]

https://gfycat.com/snivelingscarceazurevase

show original for sound version

note thats an old version, no fur textures there yet

[zealous wigeon]

Join the Cats discord, that is the only place to get a version of CATs that is supported in blender above 2.93 #703190726447595581 message (link works if you have joined their discord)

Also got a button called "optimize shapekeys" which helps if your avatars face+body mesh is above 32k polygons.

[eternal garnet]

oh, i was looking for a version for above 2.93

[plain yoke]

I’ll save this. Thank you.

[eternal garnet]

tho only the auto-fix breaks on 3.2

[forest fable]

you're not basing your numbers off of the file size reported when setting your texture compression as RGB24 and RGBA32 uncompressed are you?
Because if you're using DXT1/5 or BC7, a 4k rgb texture without alpha channel and mipmaps would be 8mb, 16mb for rgba, and +33% with mipmaps, as far as vram stats goes as reported by vrchat and thry's vram calculator

[zealous wigeon]

That dev version of CATs have some extra features that can be nice to have.

[eternal garnet]

Why would a 4K texture be 8mb? Textures get uncompressed in VRAM a 1K texture is 4MB in VRAM, 2k is 16MB and 4K is 64MB

[forest fable]

because the uncompressed dxt formats do not use a full 32 bits per pixel

[eternal garnet]

Also yes, i'm reading the texture memory usage, my avatar itself is smaller

[forest fable]

as far as i know

[eternal garnet]

32bits would be 80MB

the last 8bits are alpha

assuming 24bits only its 64MB

i'm not 100% sure but i think textures ACTUALLY get uncompressed to always contain an alpha channel

but again i'm not 100% sure about that

i've always been using 24bits (e.g no alpha channel) because i'm not sure if textures in VRAM would uncompress with alpha channel, i think i saw it somewhere but that could be an exception

but renderwise speaking you have to expect at least 24bits as far as i'm aware (with possible some special texture types that might be the exception to this, e.g non-color textures)

[forest fable]

as far as I can tell RGBA32 4k is 64mb, and 85.33mb with mipmaps because of +33%

with uncompressed textures it does seem to uncompress with an alpha channel

but not for dxt1

a quick google shows that video cards do not support 24bit textures natively, so they will always be expanded to 32 bits

also DXT1 only uses 4 bits per pixel

[eternal garnet]

yea i saw that mipmaps indeed increase by 33%

which makes sense but also doesnt

its part of the texture yes

but why would they always be loaded...

into VRAM

[forest fable]

that's what streaming mip maps are for

[eternal garnet]

thats essentially what streaming mipmaps is supposed to fix

YEA

and VRChat ONLY supports streaming mipmaps

you can't use mipmaps without streaming mipmaps on

[plain yoke]

How do I exactly get into that server..?

[eternal garnet]

https://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/class-TextureImporterOverride.html

you can see that RGB 24bits is 4MB on GPU

[forest fable]

you should be looking at the second table, not the first

[eternal garnet]

thats 1MB per channel (R G B and Brightness)

yes

thats what i am

[zealous wigeon]

https://github.com/absolute-quantum/cats-blender-plugin#discord under Discord title

I understandably, but annoyingly, cannot directly link to it.

[eternal garnet]

huh.

i see

3MB for 24bits

[forest fable]

and you shouldn't be using uncompressed formats

[eternal garnet]

4MB for 32

[forest fable]

because the gpu can handle those dxt compressed formats

[eternal garnet]

thats not the point

the point is to show what textures actually use when uncompressed on GPU

[forest fable]

that's exactly the point, using them would substantially reduce your vram costs

those are the uncompressed costs of those formats

[eternal garnet]

yes

which is the info i wanted

it shows you that 4K is 64mb

and it shows me

that those 64mb are actually 32bits

it also explains that GPU always uncompresses to 32bit

theres 3 answers

this does make me happy to know

this essentially means the 64mb i have been using all this time are A) correct and B) don't change with alpha because it IS already including the alpha

so i can forget about 80mb

anyway

1K is 4MB on GPU because the GPU uncompresses the texture into VRAM. We all should know a texture twice in size (from 1024 to 2048) is 4 times as big (because it fits 4 times into it) making 4MB, 16MB

2K to 4K means 16MB to 64MB

so now that we are all on the same page about that

to cement your statement for streaming mipmaps

This essentially means, we should absolutely be using mipmaps for bigger textures (if we can stomach the bigger disk/upload size)

[forest fable]

I think you missed my point completely. DXT1/5/BC7 does not get uncompressed to RGBA32. they are stored in vram as dxt1/5, gpu's have build in hardware decoders to decode those formats natively on the fly from vram. I am not 100% certain on this, but this matches what vrchat's vram stats reports.

[eternal garnet]

Possibly but wouldn't that just make DXT1/5 an overall worse compression to use for any big texture?

thats also kinda what the unity devs suggested

using DXT1/5 for smaller (1k and down) textures and BC7 for bigger ones (and those with alpha)

i could do a test and change them to DXT1/5 compression with and without mipmapping

and see if i could get my texture memory reduced further

i'm sure at least for smaller and non-alpha textures i could probably save a bit

pretty simple test, check texture memory usage, change one opaque texture to DXT1, check again

well guess it was 60.39 not 63mb

6... 3...

excuse me what

top is BC7

bottom is DXT1

changed a single 1K texture

[forest fable]

BC7 is 2x DXT1 because of alpha channel

[eternal garnet]

i think you are misreading

[forest fable]

do you only have 1 texture?

[eternal garnet]

with the 1K texture being BC7 it was 60.39MB, changing that single 1K texture to DXT1 increased my texture memory usage to 86.57MB

how

does that even work

[forest fable]

that doesn't sound right

[eternal garnet]

ah

moved away from the mirror

60.39MB

sooooo

no difference

[forest fable]

mirror? I don't recall those stats being updated at runtime

[eternal garnet]

every time you reopen the avatar details

it recalcs them

depending on the current usage

apparently looking at the mirror counted as being closer? so some textures got loaded in higher mipmap levels

despite ... you know my camera being in my head which is like... uh as close to my body as you can physically get

[buoyant holly]

so would it give different numbers if you were like 4 ft away from the mirror versus like 40 ft?

[eternal garnet]

makes sense

kind of

the thing is

[forest fable]

i don't see any difference in reported vram stats with mirror on and off

[eternal garnet]

mipmaps are loaded on distance and priority, so a mirror that reflects you needs to render your textures too, if the mirror somehow managed to be CLOSER to you than your camera, it would require higher mipmaps yes... but then again... if your camera is in your head... wouldn't it always load the highest mipmaps anyway since ... you are so extremely close at all times?

certainly weird

moving closer again increases it back to 86MB

again, making KINDA sense

streaming mipmaps work not only by distance but also priority (which is probably calculated by distance mainly if not outright ignored if you don't have them in your field of view)

so i assume that being a camera in your head and not looking at yourself lowers the priority

whereas the mirror makes you look at yourself

either way

regardless of how weird the streaming mipmaps system works

both BC7 and DXT1 produce a 60.39MB texture memory usage

if DXT1 isn't uncompressed into 32bit shouldn't i be saving at least something

[forest fable]

I don't know what to tell you other than to recheck your testing. if DXT1 gets decompressed into uncompressed RGBA32 my avatar would be 100mb+ instead of the 35mb it is right now

I have 8x 2k dxt1 textures and 4x 1k dxt5 normal maps and a bunch of 512 dxt1 textures used as masks, and i'm at 35mb as reported by vrchat

according to your calculations of 16MB per 2k texture i'd be well over 100mb

this is what I use to check vram costs in unity https://github.com/Thryrallo/VRCAvatarTools
and I have found that it matches closely with what vrchat reports

[radiant shadow]

yep

[eternal garnet]

you use mipmapping right?

[forest fable]

yes

[eternal garnet]

thats why.

[forest fable]

no...

the stats report a +33% increase with mip mapping

because those stats are calculated at load time and assume the worst case and don't take into account mip map streaming

[eternal garnet]

maybe but you are using a lower mipmap

33% on a 1K texture is much less than 2K without mipmapping

[forest fable]

I numbers in thryrallo's tool report a +33% increase in vram cost with mip maps enabled and this aligns with what vrchat reports

[eternal garnet]

the reason your memory usage is so low is because you are using mipmapping and VRChat defaults most of your textures to a lower version depending on the need, saving you a shitload of VRAM

another simple test

i will turn off mipmaps on my 4K texture

this should result in me being at a minimum 64mb

more because everything else

also

the 33% increase is wrong as shown on the official unity doc

the 33% ONLY applies if you use mipmapping without streaming

streaming eliminates this 33% extra usage at the cost of some CPU usage

i am now at 81.3MB minimum

there is certainly a lot of weird stuff going on

81.3MB doesn't make sense

if mipmapping drops my 4K texture to 2K i would be saving 48MB, this means the increase of only 21MB now doesn't make sense unless the streaming mipmaps does not (despite the doc saying otherwise) remove the 33% extra memory usage, but even then 16MB + 33% thats like ~21.3MB , i'd still be saving 43MB, so in turn i would have to have 43MB more usage now, that is putting me to ~103MB

unless its now reducing a couple other textures even more to compensate for some reason

or there is some wizardry going on here

[eternal garnet]

Here's my test results
81.23 (BC7)
60.39 (BC7 + Mipmaps)
81.23 (BXT5)
86.57 (DXT5 + Mipmaps)

at least for my 4K diffuse body texture BC7 is definitely the best

for the 1K alphachannel-less texture there was no difference between BC7 and DXT1

despite DXT1 hard-stripping the alpha channel

also DXT looks a lot worse than BC7 in every regard

DXT seems only well suited to reduce the size of the texture on your disk (and thus when shoving it to the GPU, requiring less bandwidth) but that's about it

[ruby isle]

In VRC you need any little crumb of optimization you can get

[eternal garnet]

but my avatar is already at 36MB

[ruby isle]

36 download size?

[eternal garnet]

yup

thats pretty small

[ruby isle]

That's pretty horrible IMO

There's 0 excuses to be over 30mb

10mb is my personal max

[eternal garnet]

there is no way i can reach 10MB without crunch compressing everything

and then i'm incurring massive artifacting and reduced quality

[ruby isle]

You should always crunch compress

Always

[eternal garnet]

no.

[ruby isle]

Well then idk what to tell you

There's not a single reason you need Crunch Compression off

[eternal garnet]

Some textures cannot be crunch compressed without losing a lot of detail and destroying its colors

[ruby isle]

Like?

[eternal garnet]

cruch compression makes me look absolutely horrible in worlds with flatter lighting

[ruby isle]

My entire avatar's atlas is crunch compressed and it's fine

[eternal garnet]

are you using very subtle dark color gradients

dark on very slightly darker?

[ruby isle]

That's the world's fault, not your avatar. I don't understand why people blame the avatar when it looks like shit in a world where someone slapped a crappy directional light in and called it a day

[eternal garnet]

go to a world with flat lighting and you will see absolutely downright disgusting compression artifacts

[ruby isle]

That's the world's fault. Or use a better shader

[eternal garnet]

the shader has little impact on that

[ruby isle]

You don't think a shader has any impact on how light reacts to your geometry?

[eternal garnet]

i think a shader has very little impact on flat lighting

[ruby isle]

Poiyomi would be raging right now

[eternal garnet]

if you have flat lighting, regardless of shader you will see color banding

Poiyomi is the worst offender

it completely breaks the semi realistic shading in Among Us

and many other worlds

where i'm reduced to "Toon Shading"

unless i do some stupid environment rim lighting bullshit that looks disgusting

the often flat and broken lighting of Poiyomi is the reason i switched away from it

[ruby isle]

Sorry to break it to you, but like 95% of art in VRC is toon shaded. Toon shading is VRChat's strong suit. The few 'realistic' avatars and worlds look absolutely horrible in VRC because nobody understands how to make realistic art in Unity

[eternal garnet]

Doesn't mean i have to follow suit. I can still look good and it works just fine.

Unless someone slaps a shitty configured sun in there and makes shadows super dark

[ruby isle]

Which is many worlds

[eternal garnet]

not really no

[ruby isle]

Yes really lol

[eternal garnet]

most worlds have a flat sun light with either no shadows or at least a normal (literally unity default) sun light that has some ambient lighting

[ruby isle]

I can tell where worlds do it because my avatar is configured so precisely that I don't have a shadow caster grabpass in my shader. I can see what worlds use lighting in specific ways

[eternal garnet]

the downright shit realtime lighting worlds were an exception so far

doesn't change the fact it only looks bad in worlds with realtime lighting with incredibly dark shadows

[visual tinsel]

[eternal garnet]

which isnt something i can fix with textures

so not my point anyway

[ruby isle]

So instead of optimizing your assets for the majority of worlds that are set up to look decent, you'd rather have unoptimized assets loaded so you can look good in other people's fuckups?

[eternal garnet]

my point is with crunch compression, even in a decently lit world, if you go into a place where you are flat shaded (e.g a lightless room for instance, which might be desired) you will end up with color banding when using fine color gradients in the blackish color range

[ruby isle]

My entire avatar is flat shaded and it looks fine

[eternal garnet]

mine isnt

i despite flat shading

[ruby isle]

And nobody is going to look that closely at your avatar

[eternal garnet]

a lot of people do very frequently

and i do see it both in camera and mirror without looking close

you can see it from far away

[ruby isle]

They don't. I literally make avatars for other people. People don't notice fine details.

[eternal garnet]

Are they furries?

[ruby isle]

I have been to entire furry clubs and events. Avatars are not the focus point

[eternal garnet]

thats not what i'm getting at

in a public event, your avatar is obviously not the focus

unless you are an actor and everyone is looking at you but even then they are looking from afar

point being i'm around a lot of people that are 99% of the time very close to me

that is as close that personal space would probably almost trigger most of the time (if i used it)

and thats not counting cuddling and doing stuff together

and they do notice details

[buoyant holly]

question couldn't you just upload two versions of the Avatar one with compression and one without so you have a version to wear to clubs and one for friends sticking their nose in

[eternal garnet]

thats essentially what the fallback is

will be

the fallback will have slightly reduce texture sizes to get into that 40MB good rating again

[ruby isle]

I still wouldn't see it =P

[eternal garnet]

whereas the normal avatar will keep its 60MB for a what will probably be a medium rating

[eternal garnet]

Which doesn't matter considering that most people turn off avatars for most people anyway

not to mention i'm trusted so i get the super shaft anyway

because people expect me to be a typical crasher-trusted

[ruby isle]

That happens?

[zealous wigeon]

A question I've never thought about before, if you make it so you appear as a User, does that change what safety settings affect you?

[eternal garnet]

sometimes still

yes

problem is

we can only appear as user

better would be known

[ruby isle]

Yes it makes you be considered a User to safety settings

[eternal garnet]

lets be honest, we all know trusted are assholes, users are newbs, both get the shaft, why not allow us to be known? i was fine as known

[ruby isle]

I've never felt that way personally

[eternal garnet]

i felt the same way, until i hit trusted

then everyone started hating me

"oh look at that trusted"

"oh you spend so much time in VRChat didn't you, i bet he's gonna crash us"

[ruby isle]

I've never heard that myself

[buoyant holly]

personally I haven't bumped into any issues with folks being mean to me because of trusted rank

[eternal garnet]

it has died down a lot

but i still get it occasionally

also if shit goes south (e.g hackers or cheaters) the first thing everyone looks out for is trusted rank

to be fair

i do it too

if my framerate suddenly drops to shit the first thing i eyeball is trusted users

and 99% of the times i'm right, sadly

[ruby isle]

You should actually be eyeballing your safety settings

[eternal garnet]

i hate them

they are too generic

[ruby isle]

Then you're gonna get these issues

[zealous wigeon]

I just eyeball "very poor" avatars, anyone can use avatars that are performance sinks.

[eternal garnet]

i rather want to see everyone's avatar by default

[eternal garnet]

problem being EVERYONE is very poor

i wish there was... more ... super poor... mega poor... ultra poor

[buoyant holly]

myself I fall back all very poor avatars

[buoyant holly]

that's not going to meaningfully help because everybody would still be ultra poor

[ruby isle]

You don't need to block very poors, just block shaders and animations and such. I have VP shown but strict settings otherwise. I almost never get FPS issues

[eternal garnet]

ahhh... nah just set the limits high

[zealous wigeon]

Avali community is actually quite good, it changes, but at worst it is about 2/3 very poor, otherwise 1/3, which seems very good.

[eternal garnet]

i get FPS issues when someone does some shenanigans with badly optimized stuff i can't filter, when someone uses 2GB VRAM or when my friend gets out that stupid Poiyomi fur shader again...

[ruby isle]

And this is exactly why optimization is important

[zealous wigeon]

I have seen quite a few very poor avatars that make use of barely any animations or fancy shaders (I pretty much always keep the latter turned off) and not showing those very poor makes a significant difference to my fps.

[ruby isle]

Oh yeah Poly count will tank your FPS

[eternal garnet]

And i have already optimised my avatar as much as i can without making any visual or functional cuts

[zealous wigeon]

As will draw calls

[buoyant holly]

not surprised as there's some that have like 15 bajillion draw calls

[eternal garnet]

i'm pretty content with 60MB (it originally was 160MB) VRAM usage for a body and 2 highly detailed outfits

[buoyant holly]

and good job on that just don't be surprised that some folks are willing to take visual cuts to get the number to go down

[eternal garnet]

although i'd love some magic tricks to lower it even further

i'm urging my friends to optimise their avatars all the time

seeing that their very poor rating is just some basic stupid stuff that is easily fixable

[ruby isle]

Mine is literally 3mb. And I have many togglables, decals, and even a 20 second gif on my avatar

[eternal garnet]

they could easily shave off texture memory, some unnecessary bone transforms and a couple other things

[eternal garnet]

Yes but you are literally comparing sticks and stones here. Your avatar(s) are presumably much simpler on fine details allowing you to cut much bigger corners without impacting quality at all (or very little) whereas i cannot cut any corners without making massive quality cuts

i literally have a highly detailed, custom fur texture

which is already baked into the diffuse

together with AO

just to cut out two textures

[ruby isle]

You also gotta remember we're playing a realtime rendered videogame in Virtual Reality. It's not a movie. Most details can be cut

[eternal garnet]

and uses alpha to cut the emission too

that makes it worse

especially in VR where everyone (on VR) can freely look at and around you

[ruby isle]

If they're doing that then they themselves have no idea about avatars either

[proper grail]

Fell for the bake shadows and detail into albedo meme

[ruby isle]

I've never been like 'Oh let me stick my camera right up on this piece of geometry and see how high quality it is'. You're not meant to do that

[eternal garnet]

Look, my avatar was 160MB VRAM usage when i still had everything separate. Having AO and the details (aka Fur) separate would have not helped at all it would just added more textures

[ruby isle]

Now, I do that for world objects sometimes, but not avatars

[eternal garnet]

My problem is the Wickerbeast uses one UV for the entire body, no separation, this makes it a necessity to use a bigger texture as i cannot few smaller ones and scale them as needed for each individual part, i could split them up which in turn would mean i add material slots WHICH in turn kill my good rating

bringing me back to "the ranking system is kinda meh"

its pushing the wrong kind of optimisation

[buoyant holly]

question is the UV unwrap symmetrical?

[zealous wigeon]

Eh, I actually do that a lot, even for avatars, but I don't blame it for how it looks, since you aren't supposed to see it that up close usually, it is just interesting to see how detailed they are.

[eternal garnet]

almost

i already thought of mirroring too

but that would destroy the uniqueness of one side of my avatar

[buoyant holly]

okay just wondering as if you can mirror the uv you could get it to be half the vram

[eternal garnet]

i would be unable to have say a different stripe pattern on both arms/legs

which the avatar does have

also

i have scratches

on one side

i'd be either removing them or adding them to both sides

[buoyant holly]

so nevermind then

just figured I'd check as most fursonas are pretty symmetrical

[ruby isle]

You could do that with decals too

[eternal garnet]

the shader doesn't support decals and even if it did (never checked) how would that work with a symmetrical UV without using an extra material slot

[ruby isle]

Secondary UV map

[eternal garnet]

well the shader supports different UV sets for detail maps

but i havent tested these "sets"

[ruby isle]

That could probably do the trick

[eternal garnet]

because it always shows 2 regardless of how many it actually has (i added one via blender to see)

[buoyant holly]

also does anyone know what the performance impacts are of secondary uv Maps since we're trying to be like the most optimized at the moment?

[eternal garnet]

problem being thats not the only scratch

i have scratches on tail, hips, arms, claws and in face as well as ears

[ruby isle]

You can have those all in the same second UV map

[zealous wigeon]

Somehow didn't think about this, because mine is very symmetrical.
Got any tips or tools, just moving UV maps seems like it could lead to seams.

[eternal garnet]

but that would mean the scratch decal texture needs to be big again

otherwise it would just be a blurry mess

unless i were to specifically tailor those new UVs to only have those parts

oof

[buoyant holly]

that's literally what you do with those decal UVs

[eternal garnet]

that doesnt fix the stripes tho

that would be another UV map

and a lot bigger

because it needs to include both arms, the legs, feet and a bit of the body

at which point it is questionable whether reducing the diffuse from 4K to 2K would save enough to make up for all those extra detail textures i need

[ruby isle]

You could very easily get away with 512. 256 even since they're small

[eternal garnet]

well yea if the UV is only that little chunk of the body yes

[buoyant holly]

yes that's generally how you use decal UVs

[eternal garnet]

but again, stripes, they require much more, much bigger

it also doesn't include the fur

which i could technically split out too

[buoyant holly]

you wouldn't be putting the fur on the decal uv

[eternal garnet]

no but a detail map

otherwise i can't reduce the diffuse

reducing the diffuse will kill the details

because of the fur mainly

[buoyant holly]

which I was suggesting the UV stacking tricks in the first place so you can keep the density but reduce vrm

[eternal garnet]

in order to reduce the diffuse without impacting the visual quality too much i'd have to reduce the diffuse to its most basic form, that is very simple colors and gradients, no fine details

but the fur covers the entire body

there is no way i can realign/reunwrap the UV in such a way that i can reduce the texture

it would still be 4K

otherwise the detail is poof

ahhhh!

😵

[buoyant holly]

if it's helpful it just has to be powers of 2 not a square

[ruby isle]

Nothing is impossible

[eternal garnet]

If i remember correct thats not true

[buoyant holly]

so the texture being 2k x 4k is ok

[ruby isle]

It is true. You can have a 2048x1024 texture

[eternal garnet]

a 1024x2048 gets enlarged to 2048x2048 when uncompressed on GPU

wasting half a texture

[ruby isle]

It does not as far as I know

[eternal garnet]

thats what i read from unity devs at least

otherwise i would have used that

[zealous wigeon]

I have heard the same

From whatever optimization guides I have watched

[buoyant holly]

well we have a vram checker now so you can see if that's the case

[radiant shadow]

Only have one av thats 2048x1024 , vram is lower then 2k

[buoyant holly]

and also I've seen rectangular textures all the time in commercial Game textures

[eternal garnet]

well we already established that the VRAM display is all over the place

[radiant shadow]

no your is, no idea what you are doing

[eternal garnet]

i am pretty sure if you were to look at my avatar you'd see the same weird things happen

[radiant shadow]

many mobile games uses power of 2 textures since they dont need that much

[eternal garnet]

generally speaking you should always use power by 2 textures and if possible square ones, although you can use rectangular ones but again as far as i read from unity devs they will be enlarged internally to a square because this is just how textures work internally in GPU/Rendering

[buoyant holly]

do you have any links for unity devs saying rectangles don't work

[eternal garnet]

from doing a quick search, the general consensus seems to be that:

• Square is preferred because it CAN cause more VRAM usage due to something called "swizzling" which is essentially an optimisation which can under certain texture sizes lead to the opposite.
• Square is preferred in rendering because most mobile devices and/or their compression types and/or some compression/mipmapping combinations for PC don't work with rectangle.

[buoyant holly]

rectangles not working is only mentioned on like iPhone texture compression formats checking the documentation

https://docs.unity3d.com/2019.4/Documentation/Manual/class-TextureImporter.html#NPOT

[eternal garnet]

yea unity specific

[buoyant holly]

like vrchat works with Android and PC builds of unity

[eternal garnet]

i was swinging a bit wider than just Unity since the questions weren't specifically answered for Unity, they do apply to Unity too to some degree because its basic rendering

[buoyant holly]

I honestly wonder if this is something we can just check in vrchat instead of guessing as we do have a vram viewer

and mostly I just want to know the answer to this question because that has implications for like world-building as far as textures when trying to build like texture atlases

[eternal garnet]

according to the profiler in unity

using a 2048x1024 texture uses more memory than a 2048x2048

but the profiler is...

not exactly accurate

mh

yea...

a couple tests down, making sure unity clears the textures

the rectangular texture does seem to save texture memory

cant make any promises tho

unity profiling is ... meh

[buoyant holly]

and I guess a question is what a rectangle even help your problem at all

[eternal garnet]

the only way to really see if theres a big difference is straight up reducing all textures a rectangle

well

and thats the next problem

i would have to massively and completely rework the entire UV of several things to make that work and i doubt it will even help

only if i were to cut them intelligently and very specifically to my use case, that is if i were to pack all emissive body parts into one rectangle and the others into the other, i could have the...ohwait... i can't... i already have the emissive in my diffuse...

it would help if i were to make the UV symmetrical... but.... ugh

[buoyant holly]

still sounds like your avatar is better than most avatars in vrchat so I wouldn't beat yourself up too much over it

[eternal garnet]

but i wanna keep my good rating!

i worked tirelessly hundreds of hours, optimised the models, atlased stuff, reduced textures, baked stuff back and forth, reduced draw calls, tested performance just to be shoved back into the dreaded MEDIUM rating ugh

guess medium rating it is

[buoyant holly]

I suppose maybe we worry about this after they actually introduced vram as a avatar rank so we actually know what the target is

[buoyant holly]

still better than most avatars on vrchat

[eternal garnet]

reduce the textures on my fallback and keep my main as is as medium... it has never made sense to have my main be exactly the same as my fallback anyway... the fallback is meant to be... a well fallback so a dumbed down version

[radiant shadow]

Shown awhile ago you can make an excellent rated quest avatar but it will use 500mb+ vram , so 🔨

[eternal garnet]

not for long anymore that is!

also that sounds hard

[radiant shadow]

All my av's are in the 22-35mb vram anyway

[eternal garnet]

you'd have to use 8K textures on every single texture channel possible

[buoyant holly]

yeah you can always wear the fall back to club events if they start enforcing you must be below this vram usage to go

[eternal garnet]

i wouldn't, it would fallback automatically

[buoyant holly]

that would be dependent on the other people's safety settings

[eternal garnet]

also those events would be pretty empty i reckon

i wish there was a way to filter fallbacks

and size...

and quests

i want an auto-mute for quest

[zealous wigeon]

So when un-symmetrizing your UV map, how do I make it so the UV packers don't rip, the now overlapping, UV islands apart?

[eternal garnet]

not entirely sure what you mean but i'd guess it has to do with some manual labour and changing the UV seams

[stray tangle]

if you use UVpackmaster, set Lock overlapping to Exact

and what do you mean "un-symmetrizing"

[zealous wigeon]

Now that I think about it, I am not sure what I was thinking.
If I am combining both sides of the avatar's UV map into on then it is symmetrizing.

But yes, thank you that was what I needed to know, both UV-Packer and a Xatlas plugin I use seem to lack such an option.

Sort of wished they had the option though since UVpackmaster is paid software.

[eternal garnet]

Ugh. Who needs complicated crashers if you can kill everyone with a simple trick... crouching down.

[cyan berry]

does anyone know how to download the sdk's for avatars? I can't find it anywhere on this discord or their website, only instructions, but no direct download!

[zealous wigeon]

Well you login, go to download and there it is.

Alternatively you download the creator companion and it will auto install it and keep it up to date.

[dawn hull]

^ this is so much better

[modest blade]

If I combine materials and textures with CAT in Blender, then what can I do with Normal maps and Metallic maps?

normal and metallic were just ignored in the Atlas

[stray tangle]

yes, because the Atlas feature is old and inefficient. you should really use CATS's Bake instead

it'll actually re-pack the UV's efficiently and bake all of the original textures to a new texture, and it does this for every PBR texture

if you have UVPackmaster2, it will also use that for packing

[zealous wigeon]

You can however also use UV-Packer which is free.

UVPackmaster is expensive for what it is.

[zealous wigeon]

To give you an alternative to the expensive UVPackmaster, UV-packer is free and real simple to use. https://www.uv-packer.com/

[stray tangle]

UVP has quite a lot of useful features, and is the only one that CATS Bake can use during its baking process

there's tradeoffs

I see it as an investment

[zealous wigeon]

I don't disagree that it has useful features, but free is free.
But really wish something else could do "lock overlapping UV islands".

Also I do still think it is expensive, it costs almost as much as Bakery which is doing things that you would have a hard time, or impossible time, doing without.

[stray tangle]

isn't bakery like 50$?

UVP2 was like 25$, but I think UVP3 is more expensive

[zealous wigeon]

Those recommending it say to wait for the sales which make it about 40-45 I think.
UVPackmaster is 39.

[stray tangle]

I just checked and it was 39

[zealous wigeon]

25 I could stomach, 39 is a lot personally for that.

Wonder if UVPackmaster ever do any sales

[stray tangle]

pretty sure they do

you can get it either on gumroad or blender market

so I would keep an eye on both

regardless, one of the most useful tools I use

same for ZenUV

ZenUV actually integrates UVP if you have it

[jaunty grotto]

hi there

[stray tangle]

hello

[burnt cave]

I managed to scuff a version of my maya all the way to green rank so I don't feel too much shame taking her into public lobbies

[heady smelt]

swag

[sick relic]

With power of elbow grease and determination, I manually dissolved and reduced polygons from 32k to be enough to get it into fallback avatar.

[onyx harness]

And you look great too

[sick relic]

Final wireframe view

[ivory sluice]

Oh sh very well done

[hardy sage]

Since when did they limit Phys bones to 8?

[zealous wigeon]

On Quest?

Since always, might have even been there during the open beta for avatar dynamics, can't remember if it was there or just missing the error.

[ivory sluice]

Phys bone are limited to 8 components, transforms are a different thing, some use root bones to use a single component on parts with different chains like hair

[undone cradle]

during the beta they didn't have a limit, and everyone just slammed as much as they could with zero care for performance.
Let's just say the Quest experience wasn't great. 😅

[jade phoenix]

guys do u think 8.800 vertexes is a bit too much for just a jacket?

[buoyant holly]

are you targeting PC or Quest

[jade phoenix]

pc :p

[buoyant holly]

that sounds fine for PC

[jade phoenix]

ye

[stray tangle]

what is the tris count?

that's what matters

[cold marsh]

Im trying to upload an egg avatar but vrchat isnt allowing me, can someone tell me whats wrong?

[sick relic]

Adding a few more shapekey should do the job

[cold marsh]

someone told me maybe it was the weight painting?

[sick relic]

Is that a legit question or a joke?

[onyx harness]

You got quite the pc fam. I’d be dead before this stage.

[cold marsh]

What?

[onyx harness]

I dropped a 50 mil tri model in blender and my shit froze xD

There’s more tris in this model than the latest CoD game :P

[cold marsh]

Wait really? 😭 thats funny

[onyx harness]

Bro probably. 420mil is a lot. The player models in that game are more than likely in the 40-60k ballpark so you can imagine.

[cold marsh]

Honestly i tried to subdivide one more time but it crashed

sad

[onyx harness]

FeelsBadMan

[ivory sluice]

when you want to increase the subdivision by a unit but forgot you have autoclicker on at 1000 clicks per second

[blissful lake]

@visual oar could you help me with this please?

[buoyant holly]

you would probably want to combine allowed materials into a texture Atlas in blender

[blissful lake]

I'm just trying to upload a sample avatar then work on tweaking it later. Different versions of the avatar will be available the more I work on it. As of now, I'm just trying to understand the process. Thanks.

[onyx harness]

This avatar isn't even optimised for pc, there's a long way to go before it'll be optimised for Quest. A lot of materials, skinned meshes and polygons. I'd delete the meshes you don't plan on using straight off the bat. Can put the model into a desired state and remove everything else.

Maybe it came with a more optimised version that you could start from. If not, it wasn't ever designed to be in Quest so it'll be a good amount of work to get close

[buoyant holly]

https://github.com/d4rkc0d3r/d4rkAvatarOptimizer